it's always best to amplify the signal as close to the antenna as possible before any loss occurs. Amplifying after line loss does little good and increases noise.

I'd go for the antenna preamp.

The things that work well on UHF don't necessarily apply to channel 2.

The noise performance on channel 2 is limited by atmospheric, cosmic, and man made noise, not the noise figure of the receive system. The use of a preamp at the antenna won't do anything to reduce the three primary sources of noise on channel 2.

That's why receiving a stronger signal from the transmitter by the installation of a outdoor antenna or a larger antenna in the attic are the best options.

The things that work well on UHF don't necessarily apply to channel 2.

The noise performance on channel 2 is limited by atmospheric, cosmic, and man made noise, not the noise figure of the receive system. The use of a preamp at the antenna won't do anything to reduce the three primary sources of noise on channel 2.

That's why receiving a stronger signal from the transmitter by the installation of a outdoor antenna or a larger antenna in the attic are the best options.
I agree. My answer was for the system "as is."

I agree. My answer was for the system "as is."

So it sounds like it may not help me all that much to add a pre-amp. And if I do, I may have to say good-bye to PBS. If I do overload PBS, I won't be ruining any device, I'm just destroying the signal right?

So it sounds like it may not help me all that much to add a pre-amp. And if I do, I may have to say good-bye to PBS. If I do overload PBS, I won't be ruining any device, I'm just destroying the signal right?

You probably won't damage equipment, but overloading on any signal can cause problems to all signals.

You may be able to add the preamp if you first reduce the offending signal's level with a filter of some sort. But that starts to get complicated.

My zip is 80521. I have taken screen caps of the antennaweb site below:

http://www.coloradodesigns.com/pics/quick/t_antennaweb2.jpg (http://www.coloradodesigns.com/pics/quick/antennaweb2.jpg)

http://www.coloradodesigns.com/pics/quick/t_antennaweb1.jpg (http://www.coloradodesigns.com/pics/quick/antennaweb1.jpg)

After reading most of this thread, I'm still confused on which antenna(s) I should get. Right now, my goal is to get analog channels clear but be ready to receive digital channels in a few months when I get a digital tuner for my PVR and the digital towers begin broadcasting full power. Denver Colorado's towers seem to be well behind the rest of the US with regards to broadcasting digital signals.

I need attic installation in my 2 story house as HOA prohibits outdoor antenna. The major channels I would like to receive are 4,7 & 22. It sounds like the CM 3016 w/ CM 7777 preamp might be the ticket, or is channel 7 high enough in VHF that the CM4228 could pick them up with the preamp?

Not much chatter about the Terrestrial Digital/Antenna Direct DB8. I'm leaning towards this one if this style antenna would be better as it looks like I could take the reflectors off to get it up into the attic and reassemble easier (32" max diag measurement attic access).

My zip is 80521. I have taken screen caps of the antennaweb site below:

http://www.coloradodesigns.com/pics/quick/t_antennaweb2.jpg (http://www.coloradodesigns.com/pics/quick/antennaweb2.jpg)

http://www.coloradodesigns.com/pics/quick/t_antennaweb1.jpg (http://www.coloradodesigns.com/pics/quick/antennaweb1.jpg)

After reading most of this thread, I'm still confused on which antenna(s) I should get. Right now, my goal is to get analog channels clear but be ready to receive digital channels in a few months when I get a digital tuner for my PVR and the digital towers begin broadcasting full power. Denver Colorado's towers seem to be well behind the rest of the US with regards to broadcasting digital signals.

I need attic installation in my 2 story house as HOA prohibits outdoor antenna. The major channels I would like to receive are 4,7 & 22. It sounds like the CM 3016 w/ CM 7777 preamp might be the ticket, or is channel 7 high enough in VHF that the CM4228 could pick them up with the preamp?

Not much chatter about the Terrestrial Digital/Antenna Direct DB8. I'm leaning towards this one if this style antenna would be better as it looks like I could take the reflectors off to get it up into the attic and reassemble easier (32" max diag measurement attic access).

If you are in a condo-type building then you don't own your roof and
HOA rules apply to COMMONLY OWNED areas only.

IF you OWN your house (including it's roof), HOA's are forbidden
by Federal Law to prevent you putting up a 10-foot high TV antenna:
http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/consumerdish.html
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

=================================================
CH7 is missing from your posted list, but I see that it is same location as CH2 & 4.

Why bother with CH4 from Denver, when CH5 (KGWN) is half the distance?
If you look at your location at www.tvfool.com, we can see that CH4 is (at least)
26 dB WEAKER than CH5, which cannot be suppressed by Front-To-Back-Ratio
of any available Lo-VHF band antenna.
[I trilaterated your position to 1/2-mile North of Post Office off Wakonda Drive.]

Other than CH5, 11 and 13, VHF channels (incl CH7) will be difficult,
even if you can use an outdoor antenna. CH11 and probably also CH13
should be receivable using CM4228--depending on how much loss
there is in your attic....

On the other hand, UHF CH22 should be easy....

Will a Preamp help??? Maybe, but the CM7777 will be overloaded by nearby,
strong signals, so you better try the low gain, very high overload W-G HDP-259.

=================================================
PS: I posted detailed info/photos on how to disassemble CM-4228 for attic use:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10612061&highlight=bendable+tabs#post10612061
It may or may not be sufficient for lo-VHF (CH2-6), and will have to be used
with a rotator to cover all directions.

FYI: I finally figured out I had to delete the "t-" preceeding the filename to see full size picture.
You should be aware of this for next time.....

So it sounds like it may not help me all that much to add a pre-amp. And if I do, I may have to say good-bye to PBS. If I do overload PBS, I won't be ruining any device, I'm just destroying the signal right?

PBS may come through just fine---overload will generate
intermodulation noise that desensitizes some channels and not others.
The weakest channels are most at risk from overload

Thanks for the reply. I'll take this up with my HOA. I own the home.

You should have been able to click on the pics I posted.

What are the pros and cons of the 3016 style vs the 4228 ?

CM3016 is good for VHF and better than average for UHF--but can't mount on a rotator in most attics.
As far as combo VHF-UHF antennas go, it's about "average", but is a good choice for roof mount.

CM4228 is very poor for lo-band VHF (CH2-6), so-so for hi-band VHF (CH7-13) and excellent for UHF....
and fits on rotator in many attics.

I haven't been able to find the answer through searches and know some one here knows the answer.

If I have a signal strength of 50% vs. 100%; Does the 100% signal "get" more bit's per second vs. the 50% signal?

Say the

I haven't been able to find the answer through searches and know some one here knows the answer.

If I have a signal strength of 50% vs. 100%; Does the 100% signal "get" more bit's per second vs. the 50% signal?

Say the

No. Digital either works or it doesn't work. At 50% signal strength, it's likely you won't get any picture at all. If you do, you'll be subject to drop outs, pixellation, sound issues, etc.

No. Digital either works or it doesn't work. At 50% signal strength, it's likely you won't get any picture at all. If you do, you'll be subject to drop outs, pixellation, sound issues, etc.

Okay. I thought it might work like Wi-Fi, where the signal strength determines your througput. So I should see either a perfect picture or a blank screen.

Thank You.

Okay. I thought it might work like Wi-Fi, where the signal strength determines your througput. So I should see either a perfect picture or a blank screen.

Thank You.

Not quite. If the signal strength is low enough, you won't get any picture. But, it might be high enough where you will get a picture, then pixellation, then sound dropouts, then a good picture, then nothing, etc. I guess you could think of the symptms as similar to Wifi. It doesn't determine the bandwidth, but the signal stregth is a direct correlation to the quality of picture you'll receive. When it works, it's rock solid. When it doesn't the picture will freeze, have dropouts or just not be there at all.

But, it's not like analog, where if you have a bad picture, you'll hear static in the sound or see bad video. Witht digital, you get no sound, or audio dropouts and not picture, picture freezing or picture pixellation.

I'm repeating and ranting. Sorry. It's difficult to explain, but once you've experienced it, you'll understand.

Also note that the "signal strength" indicators on digital TV receivers don't actually measure the amplitude of the signal that comes in from the antenna or signal source. It's more of a quality-level indicator, and isn't standardized. On one receiver, a particular signal might show 90%; on another receiver, the same signal might show 80%, or 70%, or something else.

My Sony DVR shows "signal strength" as a percentage, and I usually get dropouts when it falls below about 65%. My Samsung external receiver shows it as one to ten bars, and a signal that drops out on the Sony might show two or three bars on the Samsung. (and the Samsung can give me a usable picture down to one or two bars)

It appears that the numerical value of signal strength % displayed by receivers varies inversely with the amount of bit error correction taking place, but as jtbell said, it isn't even standardized from one receiver to another.

Many years ago, back when DISH Network still used a 1-100% scale for its DBS signal strength measurements, someone was able to determine the exact "%" cutoff level at which a DISH receiver could no longer hold a "lock", and he somehow observed that it varied by a few percentage points based on what the FEC ratio was on that particular transponder. It might have been 38% for an FEC of 3/4 versus 34% for an FEC of 7/8. Something like that.

When DISH went to the oval DISH 500 antenna, they changed the scale to 0-125% just to make sure that the customer would see a "greater" signal strength number on every transponder and not browbeat the installation technician into either tweaking it forever or reinstalling the round dish antenna.

Very few participants in these forums will even be using a real field strength meter when peaking their antennas, and even if they did, it may not be a good indicator of signal quality, so as far as the signal strength numbers that your receiver produces are concerned, all you can really do is get them as high as you can, but you can't do much in the way of calculations with those numbers to guide you as far as alternative antenna choices or placements are concerned. Ours is a trial and error hobby, and those percentage numbers are useful in allowing us to develop the best signal we can, even if we cannot actually quantify any desirable characteristic of it.

I just received my new HDTV and I was eager to check out my new tv so I hooked it up to a cheap rabbit ear and I was able to pick up quite a few HD channels.

Would I get a better result if I were to hook it up to a Zenith Silver Sensor?

Here's my AntennaWeb result:

Antenna Type CallSign Channel Compass Miles From Freq Assignyellow - uhf KABC-DT 7.1 318° 27.8 53
yellow - uhf KLCS-DT 58.1 318° 27.5 41
yellow - uhf KCET-DT 28.1 318° 27.5 59
yellow - uhf KFTR-DT 46.1 318° 27.8 29
yellow - uhf KAZA-DT 54.1 318° 27.8 47
yellow - uhf KJLA-DT 57.1 318° 27.8 49
yellow - uhf KCOP-DT 13.1 318° 27.9 66
yellow - uhf KNBC-DT 4.1 318° 27.7 36
yellow - uhf KTTV-DT 11.1 318° 27.6 65
yellow - uhf KMEX-DT 34.1 318° 27.8 35
yellow - uhf KPXN-DT 30.1 318° 26.8 38
yellow - uhf KRCA-DT 62.1 318° 26.8 68
yellow - uhf KXLA-DT 44.1 318° 27.8 51
yellow - uhf KSCI-DT 18.1 318° 26.8 61
yellow - uhf KOCE-DT 50.1 318° 27.8 48
yellow - uhf KDOC-DT 56.1 318° 27.8 32
yellow - uhf KVEA-DT 39 318° 26.8 39
yellow - uhf KTBN-DT 23.1 318° 27.5 23
yellow - uhf KCAL-DT 9.1 318° 27.8 43
yellow - uhf KCBS-DT 2.1 318° 28.3 60
yellow - uhf KTLA-DT 5.1 318° 27.8 31
yellow - uhf KWHY-DT22.1 318° 27.8 42
violet - uhf KVCR-DT 24.1 65° 32.1 26

You didn't say whether you received all of the stations coming from Mt. Wilson (yellow),
and whether you were experiencing dropouts on any of them (e.g. KTTV-DT and KCOP-DT).

Can someone explain how a DB-8 is considered a multi-directional antenna while a similar looking CM4228 is uni-directional? Is it because the reflectors are broken up on the DB-8?

Can someone explain how a DB-8 is considered a multi-directional antenna while a similar looking CM4228 is uni-directional? Is it because the reflectors are broken up on the DB-8?
They are BOTH unidirectional....if you see anything to the contrary, it's a misprint.

I'm still waiting to find out how an antenna shaped like a frisbee standing on edge can be omnidirectional. Did anyone verify that?

I am new to this OTA antenna stuff so please bare with me. I live in Holmen WI and was wondering if anybody has any suggestions in an antenna to pull in the following channels.
We live in a river valley and are surrounded by bluffs...

yellow - uhf WXOW 19 ABC LA CROSSE WI 204° 11.1
yellow - uhf WXOW-DT 19.1 ABC LA CROSSE WI 204° 11.1
yellow - uhf WLAX 25 FOX LA CROSSE WI 205° 11.4
yellow - uhf WHLA 31 PBS LA CROSSE WI 204° 11.2
yellow - uhf WHLA-DT 31.1 PBS LA CROSSE WI 204° 11.2
yellow - vhf WKBT 8 CBS LA CROSSE WI 342° 9.9
yellow - uhf WKBT-DT 8.1 CBS LA CROSSE WI 342° 9.9
green - uhf KQEG-CA 23 IND LA CRESCENT MN 184° 14.2
violet - uhf WLAX-DT 25.1 FOX LA CROSSE WI 205° 11.4
violet - vhf WEAU 13 NBC EAU CLAIRE WI 18° 51.4

I am new to this OTA antenna stuff so please bare with me. I live in Holmen WI and was wondering if anybody has any suggestions in an antenna to pull in the following channels.
We live in a river valley and are surrounded by bluffs...


tsheley,

I would also look over in the Wausau/La Crosse tread for some first hand experience with the hills and bluffs in your area.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11815279#post11815279

Thanks!

Hi all,

I'm in Elmhurst, IL about 16-18 miles from the Sears Tower and Hancock Buildings where all of the broadcast antennas are located. I need to pick up on OTS HD antenna and was wondering if anyone would have any suggestions for me, as I need all the help I can get.

I'd prefer to mount the antenna in my attic which is about 25 feet from ground level and faces East toward the towers. I'd also like to be able to pick up CBS which is on VHF but can do without if necessary. I will also need to split the signal into multiple (~4) DirecTV receivers so an amplifier might be necessary.

FYI, I think the low voltage guy our builder used tried installing a Winegard 7210 in the attic space but it was too big. I'm trying to become more knowledgable so I can converse with him better (i.e. make sure I get the right antenna).

If you need any other info, please let me know.

Thanks in advance.

John

I am 12 miles from station antennas, I have trees [100 yards] and 2 hills [40 feet higher 100 yards away][100 feet higher .5miles away] The stations will be in the 20-50 range when they go all digital. Should I get the CM 4228 or the 91xg.

You didn't cut/paste results from www.antennaweb.org and/or www.tvfool.com

You also didn't provide your location, preferably zipcode and nearest cross streets.

I'm still waiting to find out how an antenna shaped like a frisbee standing on edge can be omnidirectional. Did anyone verify that?
Only if you spin the frisbee really, really fast....

Sorry about that.

I live in Elmhurst - 60126, just SE from the corner of York and St Charles Rds.

Here's my antennaweb pasting.

* yellow - uhf WYCC-DT 20.1 PBS CHICAGO IL 88° 16.0 21
* yellow - uhf WTTW-DT 11.1 PBS CHICAGO IL 93° 15.3 47
* yellow - uhf WPWR-DT 50.1 MNT GARY IN 93° 15.3 51
* yellow - uhf WLS-DT 7.1 ABC CHICAGO IL 93° 15.3 52
* yellow - uhf WSNS-DT 44.1 TEL CHICAGO IL 93° 15.3 45
* yellow - uhf WMAQ-DT 5.1 NBC CHICAGO IL 93° 15.3 29
* yellow - uhf WJYS-DT 62.1 REL HAMMOND IN 93° 15.3 36
* yellow - uhf WGBO-DT 66.1 UNI JOLIET IL 88° 16.0 53
* yellow - uhf WGN-DT 9.1 CW CHICAGO IL 93° 15.3 19
* yellow - uhf WCIU-DT 26.1 IND CHICAGO IL 93° 15.3 27
* yellow - uhf WCPX-DT 38.1 ION CHICAGO IL 93° 15.3 43
* yellow - uhf WXFT-DT 60.1 TFA AURORA IL 93° 15.3 59
* yellow - uhf WFLD-DT 32.1 FOX CHICAGO IL 93° 15.3 31
* green - vhf WBBM-DT 2.1 CBS CHICAGO IL 88° 16.0 3

Thanks,

John

Mainly I am interested in the hill and tree problem. Also which style of antenna would be better for the 20-50 channel range.

They are BOTH unidirectional....if you see anything to the contrary, it's a misprint.

http://www.terrestrial-digital.com/multi-directional.html

If you look at the antenna azimuthal gain curves, you'll see these are ALL unidirectional:
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html
Note that at 90-degrees (sides) and 180-degrees (rear), the antenna has lost about 20 dB gain on most UHF channels.

Also note that Antennas-Direct is too proud to post these kind of detailed specifications for their products....

If you want to get the low VHF analog stations, the Winegard conventional VHF/UHF antennas get more recommendations here than the Channel Master series. Take a look at the Winegard 7078P. But you are only 18 miles from stations all in the same direction, I would not be surprised if a Silver Sensor in the attic worked for the UHF digital stations.


This last Febuary It was suggested that I get a Winegard 7078p. I am just now ordering it. I got reply from Warren Electronincs that it is not in stock and nt being made any more. Did winegard replace this modle or is there some esle I should consider? I am looking for something in the $100 price range (or less if it will work well).

Here is my stats again (from Feb, I hope these didnt change too). I would like to put this in my attic, unless it is small enough/ sturdy enough to go on roof.

* yellow - uhf WCCO-DT 4.1 CBS MINNEAPOLIS MN 134° 18.0 32
yellow - uhf WUCW 23 CW MINNEAPOLIS MN 134° 18.0 23
yellow - vhf KARE 11 NBC MINNEAPOLIS MN 134° 18.0 11
* yellow - uhf KARE-DT 11.1 NBC MINNEAPOLIS MN 134° 18.0 35
yellow - uhf WFTC 29 MNT MINNEAPOLIS MN 133° 18.8 29
* yellow - uhf WFTC-DT 29.1 MNT MINNEAPOLIS MN 133° 18.8 21
yellow - uhf KSTC 45 IND MINNEAPOLIS MN 134° 18.0 45
* yellow - uhf KSTC-DT 45.1 IND MINNEAPOLIS MN 134° 18.0 44
* yellow - uhf KSTP-DT 5.1 ABC ST. PAUL MN 134° 18.0 50
* yellow - uhf KTCA-DT 2.1 PBS ST. PAUL MN 133° 18.8 34
* yellow - uhf KTCI-DT 17.1 PBS ST. PAUL MN 133° 18.8 16
yellow - uhf KPXM 41 i ST. CLOUD MN 300° 17.7 41
* yellow - uhf KPXM-DT 41.1 i ST. CLOUD MN 300° 17.7 40
yellow - vhf KMSP 9 FOX MINNEAPOLIS MN 133° 18.8 9
* yellow - uhf KMSP-DT 9.1 FOX MINNEAPOLIS MN 133° 18.8 26
green - uhf KTCI 17 PBS ST. PAUL MN 133° 18.8 17
green - vhf KTCA 2 PBS ST. PAUL MN 133° 18.8 2
green - vhf KSTP 5 ABC ST. PAUL MN 134° 18.0 5
green - vhf WCCO 4 CBS MINNEAPOLIS MN 134° 18.0 4
lt green - uhf WDMI-LP 62 DAY MINNEAPOLIS MN 161° 19.9 62
lt green - uhf K58BS 58 TBN MINNEAPOLIS MN 161° 19.9 58
* red - uhf WUCW-DT 23.1 CW MINNEAPOLIS MN 134° 18.0 22

Thanks again for the help,

Josh

Do a google search if you want that antenna...there are several places still selling it.

it is a good thing you did not purchase the 7078p...the antenna stinks actually.

the next size up is the hd7080p. the hd 7082p is only 18" longer, a few dollars more and a much better balanced performer.

for example
hd 7080p
http://www.summitsource.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=hd+7080p&x=11&y=9


hd 7082p
http://www.summitsource.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=hd+7082p&osCsid=4d980520e31aca2c2949f86ea88d6598&x=8&y=8

I had a Channel Master 3010 Stealth Antenna (I know, not the best) installed a few years back when I had VOOM as my provider. The Antenna worked perfectly picking up all my local stations. VOOM went under, and I went with cable for a few years. Now, I'm back with Dish Network.

Stealth Antenna (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-d5OTaa36bqZ/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?i=6593010)

I had them hook the antenna back up, and everything appeared to be fine, but I'm no longer pulling in WEEK-DT (NBC in Peoria/Bloomington Illinois). This is by far the strongest signal being broadcast in the area and the last one I expected to have problems with.

If you look at the attached image, you'll see WMBD-DT at 195 degrees, WTVP-DT at 201 degrees, and WHOI-DT at 207 degrees. All of those are very strong signals consistently between the high 70's and high 90's. All of them are rock solid. Right in the middle is WEEK-DT at 197 degrees. I can't for the life of me figure out why it's not coming in.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t68/curtisnohl/digitalstations.jpg

I've attached the antenna directly to my TV's tuner and it can't find it. I've attached the antenna directly to the Dish Network 622 and a 211 and neither can find it. If I pull up the diagnostic screen on the 622 and try to manually lock on to WEEK-DT it shows 0 signal. I've also called WEEK-DT and confirmed they are in fact broadcasting and currently not experiencing issues.

The Dish Installer said the antenna could be damaged and that I might need to replace it. That's fine, but what I fail to see is what can be damaged that would cause the one specific channel to not come in, especially when all the others I receive without issue. Any suggestions would be appreciated. My fear is that I'll go to the expense of swapping out the antenna only to have overlooked something else.

I had a Channel Master 3010 Stealth Antenna (I know, not the best) installed a few years back when I had VOOM as my provider. The Antenna worked perfectly picking up all my local stations.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the Voom receiver was a better performer than either of the ones that you have now. The issue could be the image of analog channel 43, WYZZ on an image frequency of channel 57. A TV channel 14 channels higher or lower is referred to as a taboo channel because of the image problem.

The question is how to prove or resolve the problem. If you still have your VOOM receiver, dust it off and give it a try. If not, a filter that passes channel 57 or one that notches channel 43 could be used to troubleshoot the interference. (If it is interference.)

So, if I drop in a filter that removes WYZZ (Analog 43), that might allow the NBC to come through? That's very interesting. Wanted to make sure I understand what you are saying.

I have a Samsung HLS6187w and have only ever used a lower end Terk antenna, It is a small powered loop one. I have been having some problems picking up PBS and ch15 so i did some research and everyone seems to like the new Terk indoor directional.

I bought it brought it home hooked it up and tried it out with out the power first. Picked up PBS and ch 15. I was like great up to 3 or 4 bars on my signal strength indicator.

So i powered it on thinking here we go. And i loose PBS and 15 and a few bars on my 3,6, and 7.

What gives?

What gives?I'd say you don't need an amplified antenna at all. Looks like very strong signals are overloading the amp and causing reception problems.

Overload. When you start seeing the nice yellows and reds on antennaweb, you need to start small and work your way up to something bigger and higher.

At your distance I would try a two bowtie antenna, and then maybe go up to a four bowtie (CM 4221) if that doesn't work. Or try the Silver Sensor.

Nothing amplified, powered, etc.

Are there any recommended easy mods or tweaks to the xg91?

I live in Howell, MI 48843 near Pickney and I was just wondering if any one has used the Winegard MS 2000 and how well it works?

Hello, Im new to the site and looking for info on getting OTA chanels. Id like to pick you brains to get the best equipment I can the first time around. Ive got a blank slate here. Just a older tv and a 38 foot tower. I'm located in Fremont OH 43420. Any advice on hardware would be awesome.

Hello, Im new to the site and looking for info on getting OTA chanels. Id like to pick you brains to get the best equipment I can the first time around. Ive got a blank slate here. Just a older tv and a 38 foot tower. I'm located in Fremont OH 43420. Any advice on hardware would be awesome.

CM 4228 8bay with maybe a full range preamp.Detroit's a bit far to be reliable at 77mi.Probably need a rotor too.

Hi,

I am enjoying OTA signals with my current Radio Shack Iindoor/Outdoor Antenna, but realize I need something that is more stable for my Tivo HD, I get reception issues in bad weather and wind.

Can someone please suggest a reasonable (<$100), outdoor antenna thats fairly east to mount? (Preferably on a gutter, or something easy along those lines, I don't want to climb on the roof if I can help it)

My Zip is 11570

Thankyou!

DTV Antenna
Type Call Sign Channel Network City State Live
Date Compass
Orientation Miles
From Frequency
Assignment
* yellow - uhf WNYW-DT 5.1 FOX NEW YORK NY 305° 18.7 44
* yellow - uhf WCBS-DT 2.1 CBS NEW YORK NY 305° 18.7 56
* green - uhf WPIX-DT 11.1 CW NEW YORK NY 305° 18.7 33
* green - uhf WWOR-DT 9.1 MNT SECAUCUS NJ 305° 18.7 38
* red - uhf WPXN-DT 31.1 ION NEW YORK NY 305° 18.7 30
* red - uhf WNYE-DT 25.1 IND NEW YORK NY 292° 17.1 24
* red - uhf WNET-DT 13.1 PBS NEWARK NJ 305° 18.7 61
* red - uhf WNBC-DT 4.1 NBC NEW YORK NY 307° 18.7 28
* red - uhf WXTV-DT 41.1 UNI PATERSON NJ 305° 18.7 40
* red - uhf WLIW-DT 21.2 PBS GARDEN CITY NY 60° 14.4 22
* blue - uhf WABC-DT 7.1 ABC NEW YORK NY 306° 18.9 45
* violet - uhf WNJN-DT 51.1 PBS MONTCLAIR NJ 311° 32.2 51

What else is there for forums that discuss local broadcast HDTV reception? I presently check out threads on this subject here and at the satellite forums: DBSForums, DBS Talk, DishRetailer, Transmitter News and SatGuys, but I was wondering if I am missing a national forum audience anywhere else.

Your killing me :D:D:D............

I'm a noob with HD... just got my first HDTV and also switched from analog cable to Dish Network. Dish gives me SD locals, so I'm trying to find an antenna to pick up HD locals. I'm getting tired of the trial-and-error method I've used so far.

I currently have a Radio Shack 15-1892 amplified interior antenna, connected to the TV Antenna In on my ViP 722 DVR. I can't get a consistent strong signal from C & G and I can't find D at all. I can't find F, but it isn't important to me at all.

Zip Code = 61873
A yellow - uhf WICD-DT 15.1 ABC CHAMPAIGN IL 119° 6.8 41
B yellow - uhf WCCU-DT 27.1 FOX URBANA IL 25° 14.9 26
C red - vhf WILL-DT 12.1 PBS URBANA IL 263° 34.4 9
D blue - uhf WBUI-DT 23.1 CW DECATUR IL 258° 45.9 22
E blue - uhf WCIA-DT 3.1 CBS CHAMPAIGN IL 271° 22.3 48
F violet - uhf WEIU-DT 51.1 PBS CHARLESTON IL 204° 40.5 50
G violet - uhf WAND-DT 17.1 NBC DECATUR IL 257° 44.0 18

I can install an outdoor antenna in my attic - framed ranch with fiberglass shingles. There are no tall trees and the terrain is flat forever.

Obviously the most distant sources are to the west. The towers to the northeast and southeast are close to me.

I would appreciate your advice.

Mike

it is a good thing you did not purchase the 7078p...the antenna stinks actually.

the next size up is the hd7080p. the hd 7082p is only 18" longer, a few dollars more and a much better balanced performer.

for example
hd 7080p
http://www.summitsource.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=hd+7080p&x=11&y=9

hd 7082p
http://www.summitsource.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=hd+7082p&osCsid=4d980520e31aca2c2949f86ea88d6598&x=8&y=8
Rick, the current pricing on your link for the 7080 looks like it's been reduced to where it is very attractive vs the 7082.

For some reason antennaweb tonight is not listing any of the NYC digital channels for my location (it did yesterday)
Any idea why this is happennning ? Do their ch results change w/reception conditions ?

BTW, I'm 32 mi from NYC network transmitters, on LI, north shore, 220' asl. Is the Winegard 7080p a good choice for me. (35-60mi rated)

Rick, the current pricing on your link for the 7080 looks like it's been reduced to where it is very attractive vs the 7082.

For some reason antennaweb tonight is not listing any of the NYC digital channels for my location (it did yesterday)
Any idea why this is happennning ? Do their ch results change w/reception conditions ?

BTW, I'm 32 mi from NYC network transmitters, on LI, north shore, 220' asl. Is the Winegard 7080p a good choice for me. (35-60mi rated)

do not go by those ratings. for 32 miles purchase the hd7082p. do not consider the hd7080p

I know the area and which antenna is a better match. A cousin has a satellite home theater business on the island and know what performs.

for a preamp use a winegard hdp269 if you need one.

Thanks Rick !

I Googled the preamp and saw your thread on the HiDef forum, from last May. Good background.
BTW, I do have tall trees, so I probably do need the preamp.

Edit >>For those interested :Click Here (http://www.highdefforum.com/showthread.php?t=23092)

Rick0725,
I'm within 5 miles of most towers, but I'm using a CM 4221 in the attic. It's fine in calm weather (after much trial and error in location), but it goes nuts on both HD and analogue when it is windy. I'm surrounded by very tall trees. Any chance that the Winegard ADP=269 would help?

What else is there for forums that discuss local broadcast HDTV reception? I presently check out threads on this subject here and at the satellite forums: DBSForums, DBS Talk, DishRetailer, Transmitter News and SatGuys, but I was wondering if I am missing a national forum audience anywhere else.

Highdefforum--a very good source of information.

Rick0725,
I'm within 5 miles of most towers, but I'm using a CM 4221 in the attic. It's fine in calm weather (after much trial and error in location), but it goes nuts on both HD and analogue when it is windy. I'm surrounded by very tall trees. Any chance that the Winegard ADP=269 would help?

Unlikely. Your problem is multipath, not a weak signal. Attic installs can make multipath worse.

Can you mount that 4221 outside?

No! The information on the link implied that this pre-amp might be particularly immune to overload and might help with trees.

No! The information on the link implied that this pre-amp might be particularly immune to overload and might help with trees.

Amplifying multipath does not solve anything.

If you had a weak signal caused by tree loss, then the amp would help. You are too close to the towers to need a preamp.

What prevents you from mounting the antenna outdoors?

1) I've tried it jury rigged outdoors with no significant improvement.
2) I ain't goin' through that hassle!

I'm a noob with HD...have a Radio Shack 15-1892 amplified interior antenna...I can't get a consistent strong signal from C & G and I can't find D at all. I can't find F, but it isn't important to me at all.

Zip Code = 61873
A yellow - uhf WICD-DT 15.1 ABC CHAMPAIGN IL 119° 6.8 41
B yellow - uhf WCCU-DT 27.1 FOX URBANA IL 25° 14.9 26
C red - vhf WILL-DT 12.1 PBS URBANA IL 263° 34.4 9
D blue - uhf WBUI-DT 23.1 CW DECATUR IL 258° 45.9 22
E blue - uhf WCIA-DT 3.1 CBS CHAMPAIGN IL 271° 22.3 48
F violet - uhf WEIU-DT 51.1 PBS CHARLESTON IL 204° 40.5 50
G violet - uhf WAND-DT 17.1 NBC DECATUR IL 257° 44.0 18
I'm in Urbana, and the Decatur stations are tough for me at 35 miles; I imagine 45 miles will make it near impossible without serious height on an outdoor antenna.

BTW there is a CU/Decatur/Springfield specific forum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=195213&page=123).

Good luck,
Mike

Hi all, I'm back, if anyone here happens to remember my posts from 2 years ago -- started with the big Radio Shack VHF/UHF antenna (VU-160XR) in the attic, and after moving it outside and getting the CM 7777 pre-amp, it ended up performing as well as the 91XG in my situation. :) It's been great since then :cool:, but we will finally be moving this month, and I wanted to ask for advice about setting up an antenna at the new place.

It will be about 10 miles closer, and TV Fool (reports attached) shows about 25dB stronger signals. Should I take the current setup over there, or would it be risking signal overload? (I have no idea.) Use the antenna without amp? Get a new, smaller antenna and use the 7777? For digital, UHF-only is fine of course, though I would like to get analog KETC-9/PBS until the shutoff for the time signal. :p TV Fool shows its analog strength as -87 here, -72 there...

My signal levels here using the DirecTV H10 tuner are generally as follows, best to worst:

WRBU-46 (90%) -- This is the ONE that would never disappear back when tweaking things :D
KTVI-2 (90%)
KSDK-5 (90%)
KMOV-4 (80-90%)
KDNL-30 (80%)
KPLR-11 (70-80%)
KETC-9 (50-70%)

Those 7 network channels are the ones I care about. There are some trees behind the house across the street, if they might affect signals at all? You can see in the attached picture; just a narrow line that runs for 1000+ ft at exactly 125 degrees (or a fraction more). I think the location I have in mind would just clear that 125 "line" to the left (e.g. KTVI-2 would go through the trees most, and KETC-9 would almost clear to the right).

Thoughts, advice? Just wondering WHAT the signal level differences will mean in practice. :confused: Thanks! :)

Rick0725,
I'm within 5 miles of most towers, but I'm using a CM 4221 in the attic. It's fine in calm weather (after much trial and error in location), but it goes nuts on both HD and analogue when it is windy. I'm surrounded by very tall trees. Any chance that the Winegard ADP=269 would help?

I, too, am 5 miles from most of the Indy towers and six years ago when I bought my first HDTV setup, I installed a CM 4221 outdoors @ about 25 feet. Reception from most of the DTVs was very good except for one, which I couldn't receive at all. I then figured it was a multipath issue, so I purchased the CM 4228. As soon as I replaced the 4221 with the 4228 outdoors in the same place, my reception of that one DTV was fine. I later read an article that mentioned the 4221 is not very good at taming multipath due to its rather wide beamwidth. Narrow the beamwidth, like with the CM 4228 or the Antennas Direct 91XG, and the multipath isssue should be much better. Both of these antennas have worked better at my location. A rotor is almost a requirement though because aiming the antenna to maximize the main signal and to minimize the multipath signals is CRITICAL.

I've experimented with that Winegard preamp and it can help boost the signal through long coax runs but it won't tame the multipath issues as noted by Tower Guy.

BTW, I've experimented a lot with antennas in my attic but I've never had much success. It always seemed that multipath was enhanced and that it was almost impossible to find that one sweet spot to receive ALL the local stations.

Steve

Thanks, Steve. Worth some thought on my part. Use of a rotator precludes programmed recording from several different channels, so that's a problem.

This is a really big thread, not enough time to look through it all.
What's the best antenna for reception of hd channels? I hear the Zenith silver sensor is up there. Also, could this antenna be mounted outside or does it always have to be adjusted?
Right now, I have the old skool antenna, and I can only pick up 5 HD channels. We tried adjusting it, was able to get 2 others, but then lost 2 I had. I think that the antenna is not capable of picking them up.
Is adjustment of this antenna similar to satellite dishes, in the sense of, they have a narrow band in which you point at to pick up the signal? I'm on the east side of Toronto, Ont., and we are pointing our antenna right now at the CN Tower, but no improvement.

Try looking HERE (www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=465187&highlight=ontario+HDTV) for some local help.

There are some trees behind the house across the street, if they might affect signals at all? You can see in the attached picture; just a narrow line that runs for 1000+ ft at exactly 125 degrees (or a fraction more). I think the location I have in mind would just clear that 125 "line" to the left (e.g. KTVI-2 would go through the trees most, and KETC-9 would almost clear to the right).

Thoughts, advice? Just wondering WHAT the signal level differences will mean in practice. :confused: Thanks! :)

OMG Larry, you call those trees ? Here's trees !!

I'm 43 mi from NYC and can receive all network HD's except NBC. 22 yr old Winegard antenna w/a Radio Shack 11db amp.
Signal strenght is so, so. I'm going to upgrade to a new ant w/a winegard HDP-269 pre amp.
I can't see your trees being any kind of a problem whatsoever, or needing an amp. Try the ant first and see what kind of a signal you get.

First shot of the ant looking from the deck. The next three taken on the roof. Center, then left, then right views.

http://mysite.verizon.net/fwk323/pics/ant.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/fwk323/pics/trees.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/fwk323/pics/trees2.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/fwk323/pics/trees3.jpg

Looks very much like my house, except I'm lots closer to the towers. On a windy day with leaves on the trees, you can just forget about watching digital broadcasts. Don't know what I'll do after analogue is dropped.

I would appreciate any input on antenna selection for the following application:

Attic installation in a two story house located in Elmhurst IL (suburb of Chicago). House is located 96 degrees (to broadcast towers) and 16.0 miles. I would like to be capable of watching WBBM CH2. I have 80 feet of RG-6 quad shield cable strung from the TV to the attic. Attic is large so antenna size/price is not a concern but I don't want to install it outside.

Thanks very much for your help,
Sam

As no one in your area is jumping in here with advice, I will offer mine although I live in Texas. You have evidently heard how hard WBBM is to receive, the good news is that after February 2009 they will be moving from actual channel 3 to 11. Also, your WLS will move from channel 52 back down to 7. You will need to decide if you want to just wait until 2009 to get WBBM or try for it now.
I like Winegard antennas and have a lot of experience with them so will discuss only them. Channel Master and Antennas Direct make good antennas and Radio Shack is convenient and for some applications their medium quality and limited selection will work just fine.
If you want to try for WBBM now, I would suggest the Winegard HD-5030. It is for channels 2-13 and has better specs than even the YA-6260 which is only for channels 2-6. It is good that you say size is not a problem as it is 119 inches long. The HD-5030 would then serve your needs after 2009 for channels 7 and 11 although the longer rods would no longer be in use for the lower channels. This could be coupled with the HD-4400 for all of your other channels in the UHF band (14-59). You can get a UHF/VHF coupler on-line or at Radio Shack.
If you would rather wait on WBBM, then the YA-1713 is an excellent antenna for channels 7-13 and again couple it with the HD-4400.
Finally, if you would prefer the convenience of one antenna that does it all the HD-7084P has just as good of specs, but does come in at 131 inches.
I hope this information can get you started in choosing an antenna.

Hello All,
Noob to this forum and to OTA HD.
Pardon my ignorance, but am looking to receive OTA HD on a non(semi)obstructed (max)110mi shot.I am not vertically challenged so a Rohn tower is not a problem. What would be recommendations as to type, quantity, elevation, and configuration for (semi)consistant reception on this long of a shot? I'm ok with techno speak cuz I was Cable/Antenna EI man in the USAF, but it's been a lonnnnngggg time ago. Sorry, I haven't had time to read 106 pages of messages.....

Fish
South Texas
right between BFE and MFN..:cool:

wow ! 110 mi is quite a distance. I wouldn't think it's possible but you can
check on TVfool's web site to see if it's feasible.

Hello All,
Noob to this forum and to OTA HD.
Pardon my ignorance, but am looking to receive OTA HD on a non(semi)obstructed (max)110mi shot.I am not vertically challenged so a Rohn tower is not a problem. What would be recommendations as to type, quantity, elevation, and configuration for (semi)consistant reception on this long of a shot? I'm ok with techno speak cuz I was Cable/Antenna EI man in the USAF, but it's been a lonnnnngggg time ago.
I agree, check tvfool.com with your exact location and projected antenna height to see what stations are within reach. If you want some advice on antenna selection, post your zip code so we can see what stations are within that 110 mile range. 110 miles puts the broadcast towers well below the horizon in just about all circumstances, so it is serious deep fringe range. It might work, might work only at night, only in the right weather, or not at all.

I agree, check tvfool.com with your exact location and projected antenna height to see what stations are within reach. If you want some advice on antenna selection, post your zip code so we can see what stations are within that 110 mile range. 110 miles puts the broadcast towers well below the horizon in just about all circumstances, so it is serious deep fringe range. It might work, might work only at night, only in the right weather, or not at all.


Excellent site!

A lot more digital stations in Corpus Christi than previously listed on Antennaweb, and San Antonio's are closer than expected....

I DL'd the Google Earth kmz files for San Antonio and Corpus Christi and the color graphics are off in both SA is centered on Austin and CC is on Victoria. Wonder if it's just a coordinate issue? I've got the newest version.....

Ok, here's the pix..

Rick0725 (other commenters welcome as well, of course)

You previously recommended the WG 7082 for my location (just north of exit 50 LIE)

I'm thinking that if all stations are going to be digital in '09, does it make sense to replace my existing WG yagi (pics in post #6330 on the previous pg) with another one (note the trees) ?
I'm really only interested in the HD digital ch at this point anyway.
Plus the 7082 shows a UHF range of ~30 mi, while tvfool shows I'm 44 mi from the NYC transmitters (chart below)

Would I be better off with a multi bay(8) UHF ant like the Winegard 8800 39 element and Channel Master 4228 32 element that range up to 60 mi?.
If so, which one is better, or is it a toss up ? Thanks!

A lot more digital stations in Corpus Christi than previously listed on Antennaweb, and San Antonio's are closer than expected....

I DL'd the Google Earth kmz files for San Antonio and Corpus Christi and the color graphics are off in both SA is centered on Austin and CC is on Victoria. Wonder if it's just a coordinate issue? I've got the newest version.....
The trick with antennaweb to get a more complete list of stations is to enter a high antenna height under the options link. You may not get those stations, but entering 500' or something higher is useful just to see what is out there. Antennaweb is conservative on digital reception. One caveat with tvfool.com is that the list is based on the FCC database which has low power digital station assignments, but most of these won't be on the air until the station does a digital flash cut conversion and shuts down the analog signal.

you mentioned that the reception is just ok on uhf from your place with your current antenna so I would avoid the combos.

Correct, the CBS dt comes in at ~60 signal strength. NBC unreceivable, FOX, ABC (1,2&3) ~45-50, WOR and CW the same.
WLIW (ch21 Garden City) ~70. That's with a 10db RS amp, downline from the ant.

Thanks for the suggestions Rick! I like the 91xg and ya1713.

Got it, thanks Rick!

wow ! 110 mi is quite a distance. I wouldn't think it's possible but you can
check on TVfool's web site to see if it's feasible.

110 mi is not doable without a gigantic tower (at least several hundred feet), especially considering most DTV channels are on the UHF band which does not propagate well beyond 60-70 mi.

110 mi is not doable without a gigantic tower (at least several hundred feet), especially considering most DTV channels are on the UHF band which does not propagate well beyond 60-70 mi.

As a TV DXer since I was a kid in the 1960s, I would have agreed with your comment. Well, that is until this past June when I installed a simple UHF antenna setup for a friend in a rural area near Quincy, IL to receive DTV stations from St. Louis, MO, in the 99-107 mile range. I didn't think it would be possible to receive these stations on a semi-regular basis, but it is. Most of the St. Louis stations are high power (several at the max. 1000 kW) with good tower height (1000-1100 ft. HAAT). Location, location, location of your antenna seems to be the key to good DTV reception, no matter how far you are from the transmitters/towers.

The pictures of this antenna setup, which I've attached, make this whole scenario even more unusual, as the antenna is an older, simple RS yagi/corner reflector unit mounted @ only 12 ft. AGL. But the fairly unobstructed terrain to the south (toward St. Louis) overlooking a corn field, has to help this situation. The preamp is the CM 7777 and the rotor is the CM 9521. The last picture, taken from the roof of the house, looking south toward St. Louis, gives you an idea as to how the terrain looks.

I figured that when the summer tropo enhancement ended, my friend's reception of these DTV stations around 100 miles would end, but he tells me that they are still USUALLY there, even this time of the year when the atmosphere provides little or no signal bounce.

Fishman1, good luck with your antenna project in TX and let us know what you decide to install and please let us know your reception results.

Steve

Well, that is until this past June when I installed a simple UHF antenna setup for a friend in a rural area near Quincy, IL to receive DTV stations from St. Louis, MO, in the 99-107 mile range. I didn't think it would be possible to receive these stations on a semi-regular basis, but it is. Most of the St. Louis stations are high power (several at the max. 1000 kW) with good tower height (1000-1100 ft. HAAT). Location, location, location of your antenna seems to be the key to good DTV reception, no matter how far you are from the transmitters/towers.

With results like these, I continue to question the use of the VHF band for DTV. For many areas, it's much easier to deal with UHF only.

What are the prospects for St. Louis in 2009? It looks like it may be one of the lucky areas w/o VHF after the analog switch-off, but the FCC chart lists the stations by license city vs. by location.

Thank you for the info.

I'm using a Antennacraft Y5-2-6 for VHF combined with a DIY DB4 4 bay UHF (very simple to make) joined together with a UVSJ to one cable to my HDTV. I'm 30+ miles SW of the towers downtown. The Y5-2-6 pulls in the VHF High freq. just fine, and during low interference (late night early morning) the Y5-2-6 picks up Milwaukee VHF Ch 4.1 & Ch 6.1. Also my DB4 Clone pulls in from all directions. These are both in my attic at about 620' elev.
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=Y5-2-6

As a TV DXer since I was a kid in the 1960s, I would have agreed with your comment. Well, that is until this past June when I installed a simple UHF antenna setup for a friend in a rural area near Quincy, IL to receive DTV stations from St. Louis, MO, in the 99-107 mile range.

We are pulling reliable and watchable DTV stations 110 miles away using an old rusted Channel master CM4221 no preamps

BUT

we live in the mountains north of Montreal PQ while the antennas for the burlington VT DTV is on top of of the Mt Mansfield mountain.... so yes we get line of sight (kind of... it's the St-Laurence valley and the Champlain valley between me and the transmitter)

and the rusted CM4221 also pull the analog VHF stations 50 miles away (Montreal Canada).

So I'm now looking to get a new CM4228 8 bays UHF antenna to replace the old rusty 4 bays.

well.. I don't have any other choice than pulling the 110 miles distance as there's no freakin DTV station available in my area (ok, CBC and SRC are public dtv stations)

I figured that when the summer tropo enhancement ended, my friend's reception of these DTV stations around 100 miles would end, but he tells me that they are still USUALLY there, even this time of the year when the atmosphere provides little or no signal bounce.

It is tropo reception. Tropo is not dependable. And 100 mi ain't the same as 110 mi. Especially when UHF propagation drops at an exponential rate the further you are from the transmitter.

I never said reception at 110 mi was impossible. But, long range UHF reception becomes much less practical once you go over 70 mi from the transmitter, maybe 80-90 mi in a very flat part of the world with high transmitter towers (quite a few parts of the midwest have this).

If it worth playing with? Yup. I'm in central-western PA, and I have received DTV UHF out of Cleveland and Buffalo. But, those aren't channels I bet on receiving when I sit down to actually watch TV in the evening.

Im mostly looking to pick up Fox in HD. I have directv with the hd package and that is the only local i dont get in HD that i want.

Can i get some opinions on what a good antenna would be? Im looking for something indoor and realtively cheap. I dont understand all the talk between amplified, direction, multidirectional.

If you have a few suggestions i would greatly appreciate it.


* yellow - uhf WFRV-DT 5.1 CBS GREEN BAY WI 79° 19.4 39
* yellow - uhf WGBA-DT 26.1 NBC GREEN BAY WI 74° 20.0 41
* green - uhf WLUK-DT 11.1 FOX GREEN BAY WI 79° 19.4 51
red - uhf WGBA 26 NBC GREEN BAY WI 74° 20.0 26
red - uhf WACY 32 MNT APPLETON WI 74° 19.9 32
* red - uhf WACY-DT 32.1 MNT APPLETON WI 74° 20.0 27
red - vhf WLUK 11 FOX GREEN BAY WI 64° 20.9 11
red - uhf WPNE 38 PBS GREEN BAY WI 63° 20.4 38
* red - uhf WPNE-DT 38.1 PBS GREEN BAY WI 63° 20.4 42
* red - uhf WBAY-DT 2.1 ABC GREEN BAY WI 63° 20.4 23
red - vhf WBAY 2 ABC GREEN BAY WI 63° 20.4 2
red - vhf WFRV 5 CBS GREEN BAY WI 64° 20.2 5
red - uhf WIWB 14 CW SURING WI 12° 32.7 14
* red - uhf WIWB-DT 14.1 CW SURING WI 78° 19.4 21
blue - uhf W17CF 17 TBN OSHKOSH WI 213° 16.2 17
blue - uhf WWAZ 68 FMN FOND DU LAC WI 183° 29.5 68
Note:

It is tropo reception. Tropo is not dependable. And 100 mi ain't the same as 110 mi. Especially when UHF propagation drops at an exponential rate the further you are from the transmitter.

LOS and diffraction-based reception falls off geometrically. Tropo isn't a monotonic function of distance. No exponentials involved.

Got High?

Is anyone aware of a High-Selecting Signal device at a consumer price?

I'd like to have more than one antenna, perhaps of the same model, located a few feet or more apart (side to side or above/below) pointing in the same direction. Rather than combining the two signals, I'd like to automatically select the stronger signal based on the strength of a frequency (channel) that I can select (perhaps with a pot or dip switches). Is there such a thing at a non-industrial price?

LOS and diffraction-based reception falls off geometrically. Tropo isn't a monotonic function of distance. No exponentials involved.

But it is still very unreliable. Yeah, you get a lucky bounce, it works. And, in some areas some nice geographic feature will help.

Where I live depending on tropo is inviting bad reception. Once it gets into October, we get virtually no tropo.

Im mostly looking to pick up Fox in HD. I have directv with the hd package and that is the only local i dont get in HD that i want.

Can i get some opinions on what a good antenna would be? Im looking for something indoor and realtively cheap. I dont understand all the talk between amplified, direction, multidirectional.
All of your local digital stations are currently on UHF and around 20 miles away over a 15 degree spread in azimuth. WLUK-DT Fox 11 will switch from UHF 51 to VHF 11 in 2009 after the analog shutdown. The good news is that most larger UHF antennas can pick up the upper end of VHF stations ok.

An indoor antenna is iffy at 20 miles given the red color codes. If you want to try indoor, the Silver Sensor UHF antenna - nonamplified - is worth a shot if you can buy it locally (and return if it does not work). You should place it high up in the room or facing a window in the direction of the broadcast stations if you can. Another type of UHF antenna that can be used indoors that should also work for VHF 11 is the Channel Master 4220 or the AntennasDirect DB-2 two Bay bowties. These are outdoor antennas so they can be mounted in the attic or on the side of the house if you need the performance. See http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/erecting_antenna.html for antenna basics and more info under the comparing commercial antennas link.

I have a Radio Shack VU-190 XR and @ 10 feet above roof top... I get 56 total station and some comes in great and some come in bad.... but get both Cincinati and Dayton station..... I would like to recieve stations further away... would DB8 Antenna, & Low Noise Amplifier be good? and should I get a antenna rotator? I am new at this but have a HDTV with HD Built In.... I live in Zip Code 55402.. Thanks could use all the help i can get...
Robert

Robert -
You're getting 56 signals and NOT using a rotor? Some of the signals must be coming in off the back of your antenna (let me guess - the poor reception). Your zip code in Middletown would have to be 45042 or 45044, I think, in case anyone else is looking up the Dayton/Oxford/Cincinnati/No. Ky. stations for you. Use Rick's prescription and by all means, put a rotor under it all.

It is tropo reception. Tropo is not dependable. And 100 mi ain't the same as 110 mi. Especially when UHF propagation drops at an exponential rate the further you are from the transmitter.

I never said reception at 110 mi was impossible. But, long range UHF reception becomes much less practical once you go over 70 mi from the transmitter, maybe 80-90 mi in a very flat part of the world with high transmitter towers (quite a few parts of the midwest have this).

If it worth playing with? Yup. I'm in central-western PA, and I have received DTV UHF out of Cleveland and Buffalo. But, those aren't channels I bet on receiving when I sit down to actually watch TV in the evening.


I was thinking of going with a DB8 8bay for the UHF but what about the VHF? Suggestions?:confused:
The terrain from me to the towers is decidedly uphill...

Deleted because I was answering the wrong guy.

I was thinking of going with a DB8 8bay for the UHF but what about the VHF? Suggestions?:confused:
The terrain from me to the towers is decidedly uphill...

I'm not the best person to tell you about closer reception. My advice is start small and work your way up.

I'd start with something like a two bowtie indoors and then maybe up to an outdoor four bowtie.

If you're less than 10mi, it shouldn't take much antenna, unless your conditions are horrific (blocked by a major mountain).

I'm not the best person to tell you about closer reception. My advice is start small and work your way up.

I'd start with something like a two bowtie indoors and then maybe up to an outdoor four bowtie.

If you're less than 10mi, it shouldn't take much antenna, unless your conditions are horrific (blocked by a major mountain).

Nope, I'm the one with 110 miles to go.....tho after TVFool it turns out to be 60-75 LOS. May use a pair, one for 331-332degAz(60-70mi) and a DB4(or another db8) for 169-173degAz(45-60mi). We live out between BFE(Bumf***egypt) and MFN(Middle 'o frickennowhere).

Nope, I'm the one with 110 miles to go.....tho after TVFool it turns out to be 60-75 LOS. May use a pair, one for 331-332degAz(60-70mi) and a DB4(or another db8) for 169-173degAz(45-60mi). We live out between BFE(Bumf***egypt) and MFN(Middle 'o frickennowhere).

Please let us all know what your results are. It would certainly be interesting to have someone assemble a rig that works well for this goal.

If you're going to be ganging, forget the CM 4228. It is pretty heavy by itself. If you're going to gang UHF antennas there is only one realistic option (because of weight) and that's the 91XG.

Hopefully you won't have to be one of these folks ganging four 91XGs on a 100' tower. Not that that doesn't look supremely badass -- and if I had the resources and the time to make it work I'd totally have a party with it -- but I think most folks who come to this website are looking for reasonable consumer-grade solutions.

Fishman1, I thought I would offer some advice from a fellow Texan although I am about 500 miles from you. I live in the desert east of El Paso and have experimented with antennas since I was a kid in rural New Mexico.

I looked up the TV stations in your area and also any frequency changes to take place in February of 2009. I don't see that you have taken into account the two channels in Victoria, TX which you may prefer for the most local news and weather and it appears the only FOX network possible at this time. As you may know ABC is on 15 and FOX is on 11 in Victoria.

Corpus Christi has another ABC on 8, NBC/CW on 13, your only PBS for now on 23 and CBS now on 18 but due to move to channel 10.

San Antonio has another ABC affiliate on 48 but due to move to 12, CBS on 55 to stay on UHF but move to 39 and NBC on 58 going to 48.

This presents the problem of both UHF and VHF channels in all 3 directions.

It seems that you prefer separate antennas pointed different directions (of course one must use a RF switch) rather than the use of a rotor. I like to use a switch also as the change is instant rather than waiting for a rotor to turn around. Also a rotor adds weight to the mast and they tend to get out of alignment. However, if you choose to use a rotor then only one UHF and one VHF would be needed (combined with a UHF/VHF band splitter/combiner), sometimes called a diplexer although that term has become to be used more often to combine satellite and antennas.

I believe I would go with separate VHF and UHF antennas pointed at Victoria and the same for Corpus Christi. That would give you all of the major networks. San Antonio may be more difficult. You see that TV Fool shows those channels as "2 edge". That can mean several things but definitely presents problems. You could always leave San Antonio as a project for a later time.

As far as antenna selection, I have the Winegard HD-9032 and pick up a PBS station from New Mexico 48 miles away through a mountain pass. The 9095P is a nice looking antenna but is twice as heavy (wind is a problem here) and it does not have quite the specs as the 9032. Also, I am a bit concerned how it hangs completely off one side of the mast rather than balancing in the middle. Most people feel the Antennas Direct 91XG has a bit better performance. It is also felt that it may not hold up under high winds as well, it is heavier and more expensive.

For high band VHF (7-13) I have the Winegard YA-1713. We have no VHF digital at this time but will in 2009. I actually bought it for analog and was very pleased. I had never received our PBS station on analog 13 without a ghost and with the YA-1713 the signal is perfect.

In summary, if I were in your situation (and as best I can tell from 500 miles away), I would mount one Winegard HD-9032 coupled with a Winegard YA-1713 about 25 feet high pointed at Victoria and an identical configuration pointed at Corpus Christi. I like the remote control RF switches although they do loose a little more signal than manual switches. That would leave San Antonio a a fun project for later.

I'm using an Antennas Direct DB2 indoors, and most of the time, I get a good signal. Sometimes when it's cloudy and/or raining, I get dropouts. Is this due to multipath? Would the problem be solved if I moved it outdoors? There are some tall trees around the house, they're 50+ feet tall.

I'm using an Antennas Direct DB2 indoors, tall.

Could the person answering the previous question answer a quick one of mine as well... Both Amazon.com and the manufacturer list this as a multi-directional antenna. From what I've read here that doesn't seem to be the case.

If in fact it's a directional antenna, what is the 'front'? I'm assuming the metal grill is at the rear, the bow-ties are in front of that, and the direction you aim it is perpendicular to the plane the bow-ties are in.

Could the person answering the previous question answer a quick one of mine as well... Both Amazon.com and the manufacturer list this as a multi-directional antenna. From what I've read here that doesn't seem to be the case.

If in fact it's a directional antenna, what is the 'front'? I'm assuming the metal grill is at the rear, the bow-ties are in front of that, and the direction you aim it is perpendicular to the plane the bow-ties are in.

The DB2 has a wide beam-width compared to higher gain antennas. The following page has a polar gain plot to help illustrate.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/DB2.html

"Multi-directional" is not the best term, it would be better to say that it has a wide acceptance angle.

Yes, the bow-ties are the front, so the screen should be towards the back. The screen blocks unwanted signals from the rear.

"The screen blocks unwanted signals from the rear", is not the best term either. It would be better to say, it attenuates signals from the rear somewhat. Although, if you wanted a bi-directional antenna with a wide acceptance angle in both forward and rearward directions, you could remove the screen.I'm using an Antennas Direct DB2 indoors. Sometimes when it's cloudy and/or raining, I get dropouts. Would the problem be solved if I moved it outdoors?It is more likely wind moving the leaves on the trees around that is causing the dropouts. How far are you from the broadcast towers? What is their ERP? Putting the antenna outside is usually better, try it for a while and see.

It is more likely wind moving the leaves on the trees around that is causing the dropouts. How far are you from the broadcast towers? What is their ERP? Putting the antenna outside is usually better, try it for a while and see.
How do leaves affect the signal? If I put the antenna outside, I'm guessing leaves will still be a factor. Is any antenna leaf-proof, or am I going to get dropouts every time leaves move?

I'm less than 10 miles from most of the towers. I think my attachment has ERP stats, take a look.

Here are the channels I can receive, it seems I need a very strong antenna.

* red - uhf WBIF-DT 51 RTN MARIANNA FL TBD 113° 41.5 51
* red - uhf WMBB-DT 13.1 ABC FL-Panama City FL 122° 51.6 19
* red - uhf WDFX-DT 33.1 FOX OZARK AL 45° 45.3 33
* violet - vhf WJHG-DT 7.1 NBC PANAMA CITY FL 117° 47.8 8
* violet - uhf WFSG-DT 38.1 PBS Panama City FL 155° 28.2 38
* violet - uhf WTVY-DT 4.1 CBS DOTHAN AL 63° 27.0 36


http://kevlo911.ic3donline.com/images/Radar-Digital.png
Those are the results from TVfool


I just bought a Sony KDS-55A3000 and would like to pick up the local HD channels. I see that many of the antenna that fall under Violet from CM are HUGE. So I wanted to know what antennas I can look at and how much signal loss there would be if I used a 50-75 foot cable from the TV to the antenna. If I can use this long cable w/o a major loss in signal I can mount the antenna on a pole 15-20ish feet high with nothing in its' way. Or do you guys think that I will have to mount the antenna closer with a shorter cable?

How do leaves affect the signal? If I put the antenna outside, I'm guessing leaves will still be a factor. Is any antenna leaf-proof, or am I going to get dropouts every time leaves move?

I'm less than 10 miles from most of the towers. I think my attachment has ERP stats, take a look.


Outside mount would be better or if you have a 2nd floor room facing toward the towers put the antenna there or up in the attic.

What kind of coax are you using? RG-59 or RG-6 and are you using any kind of amp or pre-amps ? Buy a long coax with ends already on it and run it up to the roof though a window and place it on a temp mount setup and move it around to find a sweet spot. I have a homebuilt DB-2 and I have it in my coat closet shelf on outside wall in 2nd floor apartment and I get stations 60 miles away.

-Willie

How do leaves affect the signal? If I put the antenna outside, I'm guessing leaves will still be a factor. Is any antenna leaf-proof, or am I going to get dropouts every time leaves move?
If the antenna is behind a tree, it is in overlapping fields: a weak field that passes through the tree plus a weak field that is diffracted around the tree. Overlapping fields are complicated, with strong spots and weak spots. If you get a UHF antenna to work behind a tree, you will likely see dropouts when the wind blows because the strong and weak spots will move around as the tree deforms. Even in a good-signal neighborhood it is inadvisable to put a UHF antenna behind a tree.

The farther away a tree is, the less of a problem it is. For far away trees, assume no signal penetrates the tree, and reception will be by diffraction around the tree.

So, yes, the leaves will still be a factor outside, but less so. No antenna is leaf-proof. The only solution is antenna location. Above the trees, below the branches or to the side of the offending tree(s). My antenna is outside, about twenty feet AGL, looking right into some huge trees about 75ft away. The transmitters are about twenty miles away and I don't have any trouble from the trees. But then the two channels coming in from that direction are 9 and 21. Not as affected as higher UHF.

Outside mount would be better or if you have a 2nd floor room facing toward the towers put the antenna there or up in the attic.

What kind of coax are you using? RG-59 or RG-6 and are you using any kind of amp or pre-amps ? Buy a long coax with ends already on it and run it up to the roof though a window and place it on a temp mount setup and move it around to find a sweet spot. I have a homebuilt DB-2 and I have it in my coat closet shelf on outside wall in 2nd floor apartment and I get stations 60 miles away.

-Willie
The antenna is already on the 2nd floor pointed towards the towers using RG6, no amp or preamp. The signal is perfect as long as there's no wind, I guess. Some stations are still find even if it's windy.

The only solution is antenna location. Above the trees, below the branches or to the side of the offending tree(s).
Thanks. I guess the only solution is to place it to the side of the trees.

Here are the channels I can receive, it seems I need a very strong antenna.

* red - uhf WBIF-DT 51 RTN MARIANNA FL TBD 113° 41.5 51
* red - uhf WMBB-DT 13.1 ABC FL-Panama City FL 122° 51.6 19
* red - uhf WDFX-DT 33.1 FOX OZARK AL 45° 45.3 33
* violet - vhf WJHG-DT 7.1 NBC PANAMA CITY FL 117° 47.8 8
* violet - uhf WFSG-DT 38.1 PBS Panama City FL 155° 28.2 38
* violet - uhf WTVY-DT 4.1 CBS DOTHAN AL 63° 27.0 36


http://kevlo911.ic3donline.com/images/Radar-Digital.png
Those are the results from TVfool

Welcome!

NBC is on channel 8 from 117 degrees, FOX is channel 9 at 123 degrees. An Antennacraft T10-7-13 aimed at 120 will get both of them. The Antennacraft HBU-22 covers both VHF high and UHF and might be good enough for NBC, FOX, and ABC. CBS is in a different direction, suggesting either a rotator or a separate UHF antenna for CBS. Antennaweb and TVfool disagree about the strength of WTVY-DT. Perhaps your address is more accurate on one web site than the other. In any event a separate UHF only antenna would work fine, but which one?

How do leaves affect the signal? If I put the antenna outside, I'm guessing leaves will still be a factor. Is any antenna leaf-proof, or am I going to get dropouts every time leaves move?

I'm less than 10 miles from most of the towers. I think my attachment has ERP stats, take a look.
How can leaves be a factor? Well, believe it or not even only 10 miles away from the broadcast tower most of the UHF channels (especially higher channels) can be blocked by trees and leaves. For a much more detailed explanation, you might want to read:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html

The HDTV Primer web page provides a lot of great information about antennas and some of the challenges you may face.

How can leaves be a factor? Well, believe it or not even only 10 miles away from the broadcast tower most of the UHF channels (especially higher channels) can be blocked by trees and leaves. For a much more detailed explanation, you might want to read:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html

The HDTV Primer web page provides a lot of great information about antennas and some of the challenges you may face.
Thanks!

"The screen blocks unwanted signals from the rear", is not the best term either. It would be better to say, it attenuates signals from the rear somewhat. Although, if you wanted a bi-directional antenna with a wide acceptance angle in both forward and rearward directions, you could remove the screen.

So here's my situation... My media room is in my basement, surrounded on all sides by lots of house and dirt. My antenna's location will require a cable run, so I figure it's just as easy to put it outside. I'm close enough that I don't think I need anything immense. Here are the stations I'm interested in:


I started with a small GE Futura Outdoor HDTV antenna. I got a 100' reel of RG6 and ran it downstairs to my HTPC which will be doing the tuning. I screwed the antenna to a 2 x 4 and clamped that to my deck outside on the 2nd floor of my house so I could move it around easily.

That antenna came with a small inline signal booster. I guess ideally that should be near the antenna end of the cable, but I didn't have a way to hook it up there, so I stuck it at the media room end.

I've got a couple of things I'm basing the signal strength on. Hauppauge has a program they call a 'Digital Signal Strength Indicator (http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/support/support_digital_signal_monitor.html)' that shows SNR, Received Errors and Uncorrectable Errors. Also I'm using Beyond TV, and the setup wizard has a tool that scans through the channels and assigns them ratings which I'm guessing are on a 0-100 scale.

So with the included signal booster at the wrong end of the cable I was getting poor signals. I swapped out that with this Motorola Signal Booster (http://broadband.motorola.com/consumers/products/signal_booster/) I'd picked up to deal with the multiple cable splits I needed to deal with my HTPC. Now I was finally getting good strong signals, but it seemed like there was always one or two channels that weren't coming through. In this case I think it was one of the ones at the greater distance. So I decided to try a better antenna, and I ordered a DB2.

When that came I set everything up again. My best results were with the antenna aimed at the more distant stations. Everything was coming in clear except for CBS. I'd been using AntennaWeb, and I don't remember seeing station broadcast strength. Then I saw a link for TVFool, and that was listed. I see now that my CBS station is the weakest of the three near stations at 21 kW. Is it likely that the screen on my antenna is blocking that signal, and pulling it off will fix things?

Also, when and if I finally find a sweet spot for the antenna, I'm going to tidy up the cable run, and I'm guessing that the 100' will shrink to maybe 30-40'. What's that extra 60' of missing cable going to do to the signal? Can I boost it too much?

Lastly, in this situation is there a better antenna I could be using, since I'm trying to take a uni-directional antenna and bastardize it into service as a multidirectional.

Sorry for the verbosity of this post. I'm new to the whole antenna thing and I didn't want to leave out anything important.

Here are the stations I'm interested in:

http://www.woodenbadger.com/temp/radar.png



Interesting situation: You're too close to three of the stations to use an amplifier. The direction to the other two is almost 180 degrees. Yet, all of your stations are at modest power levels. Removing the screen on the DB2 will get the proper pattern, and the impedance would be wrong, but it is likely to work. If not try two DB2's, one aimed at 210, the other at 37; coupled with a splitter used backwards.

The antenna is already on the 2nd floor pointed towards the towers using RG6, no amp or preamp. The signal is perfect as long as there's no wind, I guess. Some stations are still find even if it's windy.

from my experiences over the years dealing with the issue at user's homes and at the same time living with a huge wall of trees behind me. I would prefer trees behind me any day. Having trees in front is much worse.

the antenna

-must be several sizes larger at least 2-3 times larger than what is typical under normal conditions.
-must have a high front to back ratio with trees behind you and more forward gain
-bow ties of any size tame the affect of the wind and trees poorly
-the antenna system must be soundly mounted and not allowed to sway during the wind gusts.

The extra gain of an oversized antenna allow the signal strength to be above the threshold of the receiver during the fluctuations up and down. The large antennas tend to have a larger front to back ratio and are more directional...all good traits necessary to tame the effects.

The dips in signal during wind gusts really never go away. the extra gain just allows for more cushion during the peaks and valleys of signal.

you are going to need an antenna 2-3 sizes bigger that normally suggested for your conditions. A db2, db4, cm4221 therefore generally are not going to cut it. and would mount outdoors. mounting indoors also just adds to the issues.

Originally Posted by ChaseArcher View Post
Here are the stations I'm interested in:

http://www.woodenbadger.com/temp/radar.png

Interesting situation: You're too close to three of the stations to use an amplifier. The direction to the other two is almost 180 degrees. Yet, all of your stations are at modest power levels. Removing the screen on the DB2 will get the proper pattern, and the impedance would be wrong, but it is likely to work. If not try two DB2's, one aimed at 210, the other at 37; coupled with a splitter used backwards.
The only "GE Futura" antennas I could find were indoor rabbit-ears and "loop" type, with a built-in amplifier.....
I would guess that what you think is an in-line amplifier is actually the AC Power Module for the amplifier inside the antenna.

Without the AC Power Module, the amplifier inside the antenna is nearly DEAD.
And WITH the AC Power Module, the amplifier is blown away with signal overload.

It must get really tiring answering the same question over and over, and I for one really appreciate you guys taking the time to do this for us video newbies.

I live in Raleigh, NC, and my zip is 27609. What type of antenna do you recommend for me?

Thanks in advance. :)

I live in Raleigh, NC, and my zip is 27609. What type of antenna do you recommend for me?

Assuming the closest station group is the desired target, for now an Antennas Direct DB2 or a Channel Master 4220 should be sufficient. You may want to try a simple (un-amplified) rabbit ear/loop combo at first to see if that works.

Looking ahead to 2009, WTVD will be moving back to VHF channel 11, so a separate VHF antenna may be required then if you get a UHF only antenna now.

Will you be using a built-in HDTV tuner or a STB (box)?

you are going to need an antenna 2-3 sizes bigger that normally suggested for your conditions. A db2, db4, cm4221 therefore generally are not going to cut it. and would mount outdoors. mounting indoors also just adds to the issues.
What antennas do you recommend for my case?

What antennas do you recommend for my case?

It appears that you need a more directional antenna than a DB2, etc. However, a larger (Yagi type) antenna will have more gain.

Does it make sense to get something like a 91XG and then use an attenuator? An amp should be avoided, but will the 91XG overload the front end of the tuner in this case?

I am also wondering about the effectiveness of cable attenuators for OTA applications. I have 10dB and 20dB cable TV attenuators, but it is unclear if they are having the desired effect.

I suppose the signal can be attenuated by splitters, but that doesn't seem to be an elegant approach.

It appears that you need a more directional antenna than a DB2, etc. However, a larger (Yagi type) antenna will have more gain.

Does it make sense to get something like a 91XG and then use an attenuator? An amp should be avoided, but will the 91XG overload the front end of the tuner in this case?

I am also wondering about the effectiveness of cable attenuators for OTA applications. I have 10dB and 20dB cable TV attenuators, but it is unclear if they are having the desired effect.

I suppose the signal can be attenuated by splitters, but that doesn't seem to be an elegant approach.

overload is rare unless you are amplifying or right on top or of close proximity to the transmitters. You can use a 91 xg within reason. I do not like to use attenuation.

What antennas do you recommend for my case?

If I were to install at your home , I would use the winegard hd7080p combo aimed between 132-145 deg. with the db-2 you currently own and ch 38 jointenna aimed at 46 degrees. And if the db2 did not work at 46 degress then a 43xg.

If you split the signal with decent runs I would add an hdp 269 preamp at the distribution point used as a distribution amp and only amplify uhf and pass vhf.

If you want a wiring diagram let me know.

Welcome!

NBC is on channel 8 from 117 degrees, FOX is channel 9 at 123 degrees. An Antennacraft T10-7-13 aimed at 120 will get both of them. The Antennacraft HBU-22 covers both VHF high and UHF and might be good enough for NBC, FOX, and ABC. CBS is in a different direction, suggesting either a rotator or a separate UHF antenna for CBS. Antennaweb and TVfool disagree about the strength of WTVY-DT. Perhaps your address is more accurate on one web site than the other. In any event a separate UHF only antenna would work fine, but which one?


Yeah, just need to figure out the antennas, what do you think about using the long cable? I can't find the antennacraft T10? Any others I should be looking at?

Yeah, just need to figure out the antennas, what do you think about using the long cable? I can't find the antennacraft T10? Any others I should be looking at?

Antennacraft T10 was mistyped it should be Y10 here link to antennacraft website with specs http://www.antennacraft.net/pdfs/Y10-7-13.pdf

-Willie

Hello, all.
I just ordered a DTB-H260F ATSC tuner, and am now shopping antennas. I popped into antennweb, and came up with the following results:

* yellow - uhf KFXA-DT 28.1 FOX CEDAR RAPIDS IA 248° 17.0 27
* yellow - uhf KGAN-DT 2.1 CBS CEDAR RAPIDS IA 335° 10.1 51
* yellow - uhf KCRG-DT 9.1 ABC CEDAR RAPIDS IA 335° 10.1 52
* yellow - uhf KRIN-DT 35.1 PBS WATERLOO IA 335° 10.1 35
* yellow - uhf KWWL-DT 7.1 NBC WATERLOO IA 347° 15.5 55
* yellow - uhf KPXR-DT 48.1 ION CEDAR RAPIDS IA 323° 9.1 47
* green - uhf KWKB-DT 20.1 CW IOWA CITY IA 144° 38.4 25
* violet - uhf KIIN-DT 45.1 PBS IOWA CITY IA 144° 39.0 45

I'm interested in Cedar Rapids and Waterloo stations only, not the Iowa City ones. That suggests that an indoor antenna should do fine. Now, my question is WHICH indoor antennas should I look at?

I would like to place the antenna in the northwest corner of my basement, if that makes a difference. Thanks!

Hello, all.
I just ordered a DTB-H260F ATSC tuner, and am now shopping antennas. I popped into antennweb, and came up with the following results:

* yellow - uhf KFXA-DT 28.1 FOX CEDAR RAPIDS IA 248° 17.0 27
* yellow - uhf KGAN-DT 2.1 CBS CEDAR RAPIDS IA 335° 10.1 51
* yellow - uhf KCRG-DT 9.1 ABC CEDAR RAPIDS IA 335° 10.1 52
* yellow - uhf KRIN-DT 35.1 PBS WATERLOO IA 335° 10.1 35
* yellow - uhf KWWL-DT 7.1 NBC WATERLOO IA 347° 15.5 55
* yellow - uhf KPXR-DT 48.1 ION CEDAR RAPIDS IA 323° 9.1 47
* green - uhf KWKB-DT 20.1 CW IOWA CITY IA 144° 38.4 25
* violet - uhf KIIN-DT 45.1 PBS IOWA CITY IA 144° 39.0 45

I'm interested in Cedar Rapids and Waterloo stations only, not the Iowa City ones. That suggests that an indoor antenna should do fine. Now, my question is WHICH indoor antennas should I look at?
So, I'm reading along, thinking everything is fine. Then I continue on and read....

I would like to place the antenna in the northwest corner of my basement, if that makes a difference. Thanks!
Yeouch! :eek: Uh, this brings up a whole host of questions. Basement? :confused: Houston, we have a problem!

First of all, I assume the northwest corner points in the correct direction. Else, you might need to think of another approach.

Second, the UHF signal probably will not penetrate cinder block - often used in basement construction. Do you have a closet above that area? You might be able to place an antenna in that closet and run a cable through the floor to wire it to the TV.

As to the type of indoor antenna, I note you have two stations over 15 miles away. You might want an amplified indoor antenna. The broadcast towers in my area are 19 miles away. I successfully use a Terk HDTVa antenna. The good thing about this type of antenna is that it is directional - it helps eliminate reflections that can interfere with the signal. In your case, that might be a problem since KFXA points off in a different direction. If you have your antenna in a closet, changing the direction may be a nuisance - at the very least.

D'oh. Basement is poured concrete, 8" thick walls. Sounds like that'll be an impediment to UHF, eh? No windows in that area of the basement, either; about the best I could do (while keeping it indoors) would be to put it up between the floor joists (no sheetrock on the ceiling in that part of the basement).
If subterranean placement is an absolute no-no, would putting an "indoor" antenna outdoors (e.g. on the underside of my deck) be a better idea? That'd at least get it outside of the concrete.
Either way, I'm hoping for a set-and-forget antenna, and I DO want to make sure I get KFXA in addition to the other channels; hopefully a multi-directional antenna will be OK. The Samsung tuner box I'm getting is reportedly copes well with multipath. Thanks!

Fishman1, I thought I would offer some advice from a fellow Texan although I am about 500 miles from you. I live in the desert east of El Paso and have experimented with antennas since I was a kid in rural New Mexico.

I looked up the TV stations in your area and also any frequency changes to take place in February of 2009. I don't see that you have taken into account the two channels in Victoria, TX which you may prefer for the most local news and weather and it appears the only FOX network possible at this time. As you may know ABC is on 15 and FOX is on 11 in Victoria.

Corpus Christi has another ABC on 8, NBC/CW on 13, your only PBS for now on 23 and CBS now on 18 but due to move to channel 10.

San Antonio has another ABC affiliate on 48 but due to move to 12, CBS on 55 to stay on UHF but move to 39 and NBC on 58 going to 48.

This presents the problem of both UHF and VHF channels in all 3 directions.

It seems that you prefer separate antennas pointed different directions (of course one must use a RF switch) rather than the use of a rotor. I like to use a switch also as the change is instant rather than waiting for a rotor to turn around. Also a rotor adds weight to the mast and they tend to get out of alignment. However, if you choose to use a rotor then only one UHF and one VHF would be needed (combined with a UHF/VHF band splitter/combiner), sometimes called a diplexer although that term has become to be used more often to combine satellite and antennas.

I believe I would go with separate VHF and UHF antennas pointed at Victoria and the same for Corpus Christi. That would give you all of the major networks. San Antonio may be more difficult. You see that TV Fool shows those channels as "2 edge". That can mean several things but definitely presents problems. You could always leave San Antonio as a project for a later time.

As far as antenna selection, I have the Winegard HD-9032 and pick up a PBS station from New Mexico 48 miles away through a mountain pass. The 9095P is a nice looking antenna but is twice as heavy (wind is a problem here) and it does not have quite the specs as the 9032. Also, I am a bit concerned how it hangs completely off one side of the mast rather than balancing in the middle. Most people feel the Antennas Direct 91XG has a bit better performance. It is also felt that it may not hold up under high winds as well, it is heavier and more expensive.

For high band VHF (7-13) I have the Winegard YA-1713. We have no VHF digital at this time but will in 2009. I actually bought it for analog and was very pleased. I had never received our PBS station on analog 13 without a ghost and with the YA-1713 the signal is perfect.

In summary, if I were in your situation (and as best I can tell from 500 miles away), I would mount one Winegard HD-9032 coupled with a Winegard YA-1713 about 25 feet high pointed at Victoria and an identical configuration pointed at Corpus Christi. I like the remote control RF switches although they do loose a little more signal than manual switches. That would leave San Antonio a a fun project for later.

I feel for you Mr. B! The Santa Ana's are a drag! I lived in "Hell Paso" for 8 years(Bliss) and 2 years in Alamogordo/Tularosa(Holloman)NM. Never wanna see the sandbox again...but now Cloudcroft..hmmm.

D'oh. Basement is poured concrete, 8" thick walls. Sounds like that'll be an impediment to UHF, eh? No windows in that area of the basement, either; about the best I could do (while keeping it indoors) would be to put it up between the floor joists (no sheetrock on the ceiling in that part of the basement).
I think it will have the same problem. The UHF signal would need to penetrate several inches of solid wood. Unless there is a space where you can aim it through siding and not something like the frame.

If subterranean placement is an absolute no-no, would putting an "indoor" antenna outdoors (e.g. on the underside of my deck) be a better idea? That'd at least get it outside of the concrete.
Under the deck should be fine, if you don't have any major obstructions.

As to the type of antenna, you would do better using an outdoor antenna.
Why? An outdoor antenna is designed to handle the weather.

One word of caution. If the antenna is outside you must ground it. A great site to learn more about antennas is:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/erecting_antenna.html

Either way, I'm hoping for a set-and-forget antenna, and I DO want to make sure I get KFXA in addition to the other channels; hopefully a multi-directional antenna will be OK. The Samsung tuner box I'm getting is reportedly copes well with multipath. Thanks!
You should be able to get an antenna that should handle all the towers. A directional antenna will probably help more with multipath issues than the set top box. But the HDTV Primer website should help. Lots of reading and learning, but I found it a good resource.

I suppose I could pick up an indoor antenna, cross my fingers, and give it a try... maybe play around with placement in various locations. I home-ran many RG6 lines, so I could do a fair amount of experimentation. Worst-case, if I can't find an indoor location I'm happy with, I'd just have to take the antenna back and trade up to something else.
Also, I'll take a look at the HDTV Primer site. Thanks!

-edit-
I ended up grabbing a cheapie Philips amplified V/UHF antenna last night -- I had to pick up a couple of things at Target... figured while I was there, I'd pick up whatever antenna they had as a first try. Got home, hooked it up to my DTB-H260F (which had just arrived that same day), and did initial testing and setup in a different room from my main viewing area. I was still in the basement, but in the Northeast corner instead of northwest -- this allowed me to set the antenna on a windowsill. It worked great, and picked up all the "yellow" stations I mentioned before. When I moved around in the room, I could provoke dropouts on KGAN, but that was it.
So, next step - now that I had all the channels programmed in, it was time to move into the 'real' location... the Northwest corner of the basement. That's where the equipment rack feeding my projector resides. I was a little worried, being that there are no windows in that area of the basement. But as it turns out, I encountered no (uncorrectable) problems. I put the antenna at the top of my rack (so its base was ~6' off the floor), hooked everything up, and checked it out. All the stations still came in, but I was getting dropouts every minute or so on KCRG. I turned the UHF element on the antenna a little bit, dialed in some more gain, and boom -- no more dropouts.
Sorry for the long story, but I'm so excited. This is my first foray into HDTV. I was flipping between the SD subchannel and HD main channel of my CBS affiliate last night during Letterman... the SD feed looked like what I'd get from my NTSC cable box, but the HD feed made my jaw hit the floor! :eek:

Hi antenna folks! I have been searching through a lot of posts here but can't really find an answer to my question. Looks like everyone's setup and details are important so I will post mine and hope that some of you guys with more experience can help.

I am a Dish Network customer using the 622 recieiver. Currently locals are not available in Austin (TX) in HD through Dish. That is okay, OTA actually gives me more recording flexibility through the STB. I picked up a Radio Shack 15-1878 indoor amplified antenna just to see what I could get. It does a pretty good job of picking up my digital locals (75-80 signal, and i have the "gain control" set all the way up) however, if I move too close to the antenna or walk by it I lose signal completely. Until I back away.
The home owners assoc in my neighborhood would flip right out if I tried to install a traditional aerial antenna. So I was looking at the Terk TV 44 that clips onto the dish. I figure put the antenna outside and I won't be able to interfere with the signal. Right? Is this Terk antenna any good? Any better low profile suggestions?

Here is what TVfool.com had to say:
http://whitelightent.com/Radar-Digital.png

Thanks for any suggestions.

I can't suggest alternatives but the general consensus here on the forum is that the Terk is NOT a good choice.

Edit :To quote another poster "The things that always bothered me about clip ons is they are relatively low gain folded dipoles which are size dependent for best frequency fit, and are bidirectional but cannot be aimed."

Hi antenna folks!

The home owners assoc in my neighborhood would flip right out if I tried to install a traditional aerial antenna.

Thanks for any suggestions.

This antenna is directional and doesn't look like a conventional antenna. It is High band VHF plus UHF. It's VHF pattern is skewed to the left, which is exactly what you need for KAKW-DT.

http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/ss1000.htm

This is a small conventional antenna that covers channels 7-69 only. It is missing the long elements that cover channels 2-6.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=HBU22

You do not want or need an amplifier.

I can't suggest alternatives but the general consensus here on the forum is that the Terk is NOT a good choice.

Edit :To quote another poster "The things that always bothered me about clip ons is they are relatively low gain folded dipoles which are size dependent for best frequency fit, and are bidirectional but cannot be aimed."
Here are two "architecture friendly" outdoor antennas that you might want to consider:
http://www.antennasdirect.com/lacrosse.html
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2348191&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032205&fbn=Type%2FHDTV&f=PAD%2FProduct+Type%2FHDTV&fbc=1&parentPage=family
The Lacrosse is available unamplified and with a low-gain (high overload) amplifier.
The Radio Shack 15-2187 also has a low-gain amplifier and may be okay since nearby TV towers are over 10 miles away.

You also might want to consider wood/vinyl/fibreglass lattice work or other structures to "hide" an outdoor antenna.

... The home owners assoc in my neighborhood would flip right out if I tried to install a traditional aerial antenna...
While I tend to agree you might want some architectural friendly options, you should know your rights. First, if you own your house and the exterior, then your home owners association has no right to bar your from erecting an antenna. See the following two websites:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/erecting_antenna.html
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

The first site states:

If you have been told that you may not erect a small outdoor TV antenna, that is probably wrong. The Telecommunications Act of 1996 has a provision that preempts (overrules) nearly all local restrictions such as deed restrictions, home-owners association rules, renters contracts, and so on.

So, remember you have the right to erect an antenna to receive over the air broadcasts.

Thanks everyone for your responses. So with the closest towers around 11mi away, I do not/ should not get one with an amplifier? That will save some trouble with electrical, I suppose. As long as I still get a clear signal.
The Lacrosse one seems to be a good fit.

DECdaze, I agree with what you are saying, and honestly nothing would please me more sometimes than to trump the HMO with law. Sometimes the rules are pretty absurd. But a 20' pole with a large fish skeleton on top is way against the WAF as well. :-P

Guess I am not really going to get away from this without having to run a separate coax. I was really hoping to diplex into the dish wiring but it sounds like diplexers are not a good idea and that the Dish 1000 is especially difficult to diplex anyway.

Thanks again and I welcome any other thoughts.

Since you're only 11 miles from local towers, there are lots of options....you don't NEED a big, high antenna.
It also appears that you don't NEED to try to pick up channels in the opposite direction...

You could put a 4-Bay or 8-Bay UHF antenna in the attic...either will also pickup some hi-VHF channels.

Or hang it outdoors just above (or below) the roof ledger board.

The Lacrosse one seems to be a good fit.

Thanks again and I welcome any other thoughts.

The Lacrosse is not intended for VHF reception. You may not care about KAKW-DT on channel 13, but consider that some UHF stations will be moving back to VHF. In your case KTBC-DT is on channel 56. KTBC-DT can't stay on channel 56 after February 17, 2009. I don't know their final channel election, but I'd guess that it will be channel 7. I don't have any personal experience with the Lacrosse, but it's not designed for reception of channel 7. The Square Shooter looks much like the Lacrosse, should work on channel 7, and last I checked it was less expensive.

In your case KTBC-DT is on channel 56. KTBC-DT can't stay on channel 56 after February 17, 2009. I don't know their final channel election, but I'd guess that it will be channel 7.

Yes, KTBC-DT has elected to return to channel 7 in '09.

There are very few MSA's that won't have at least 1 major station on VHF after the analog shut-down.

Is the Square Shooter really effective for VHF-High? HDTV Primer didn't have a glowing view for its performance on VHF-Low or High. It seems to be vertically polarized. Is it vertically polarized for FM reception?

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/SquareShooter.html

For this range it might work, if tilted.

Thanks again and I welcome any other thoughts.

Lowes has a Philips antenna that looks like the Square Shooter etc. I think it's about $40. I don't know if it's any good, but if you can return it, it could provide a cheap no risk solution. I agree with holl_ands that a bowtie might be hung unobtrusively outside, and if you want to experiment very cheaply you can make one pretty easily. The thread below has lots of instructions.

http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9613&st=0

Is the Square Shooter really effective for VHF-High? HDTV Primer didn't have a glowing view for its performance on VHF-Low or High. It seems to be vertically polarized.

For this range it might work, if tilted.

I did not know that the Square Shooter was vertically polarized on channels 7-13. Mounting it tilted (with one of the corners up) sounds like a workable solution.

Hmmmm, seems like I would need to be pretty dead on when angling and mounting the SS. Has anyone had any experience with this one?

HDTV Indoor/Outdoor Directional Antenna (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2348191&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032205&parentPage=family&techSpecs=techSpecs&summary=summary&currentTab=features&fbn=Type%2FHDTV&custRatings=custRatings&features=features&accessories=accessories&fbc=1&support=support&parentPage=family)

The Lacrosse is not intended for VHF reception. You may not care about KAKW-DT on channel 13, but consider that some UHF stations will be moving back to VHF. In your case KTBC-DT is on channel 56. KTBC-DT can't stay on channel 56 after February 17, 2009. I don't know their final channel election, but I'd guess that it will be channel 7. I don't have any personal experience with the Lacrosse, but it's not designed for reception of channel 7. The Square Shooter looks much like the Lacrosse, should work on channel 7, and last I checked it was less expensive.
Bob Chase (Houston Station Engineer) compared signal levels across TV band for 8 outdoor antennas:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6245872&#post6245872

Although CH7 was not active in Houston, you can look at the 180.5 MHz "hump" just above CH7
(as well as other VHF channels) to see that the CM-4228 8-Bay "UHF" antenna outperforms
the SS-1000 VHF/UHF by about 10 dB. Square-shooter is pretty pathetic for VHF....

PS: The "hump" was due to a datacasting sub-carrier on CH8.

Additional, supporting performance data was summarized here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9332997&highlight=bob+chase+attic#post9332997
Note that Kerry Cozad included the SS-1000 in an calibrated outdoor antenna range test.

============================================
I haven't seen any equivalent data for the A-D Lacrosse, however their website has a gain chart
showing about 4 dBi gain for CH7....betcha that's more than SS-1000....

Hmmmm, seems like I would need to be pretty dead on when angling and mounting the SS. Has anyone had any experience with this one?

HDTV Indoor/Outdoor Directional Antenna (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2348191&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032205&parentPage=family&techSpecs=techSpecs&summary=summary&currentTab=features&fbn=Type%2FHDTV&custRatings=custRatings&features=features&accessories=accessories&fbc=1&support=support&parentPage=family)
AVS user "jhb50" had unexpected success 95 miles due East of L.A. stations on Mt Wilson,
using the Radio Shack 15-2187 "Cheese Cake?" antenna:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9468924&highlight=jhb50#post9468924

I was really surprised, given a group of nearby stations only 4 miles on the "backside" of the antenna.
So the built-in Preamp no doubt also has high overload tolerance....given imperfect fence "shielding"....

Note that since he is feeding a Dish vip622 (which does not support NTSC analog channels),
he can't tell us how well the RS 15-2187 works for VHF.

According to the FCC database, KTBC is broadcasting with circular polarization and therefore the (linear) polarization of the antenna shouldn't matter. With a full power station 11 miles away, you don't need much antenna, anything with positive gain will likely work.

Hmmmm, seems like I would need to be pretty dead on when angling and mounting the SS. Has anyone had any experience with this one?

HDTV Indoor/Outdoor Directional Antenna (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2348191&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032205&parentPage=family&techSpecs=techSpecs&summary=summary&currentTab=features&fbn=Type%2FHDTV&custRatings=custRatings&features=features&accessories=accessories&fbc=1&support=support&parentPage=family)


I own this antenna and love it. I live 60 miles east of LA (don't have cable or satellite) and when I recently (a month ago) purchased an HDTV I went to RS and bought this antenna. All I did was stick it up in the attic space and point it in the general direction of the transmitters. It's not even rigidly mounted to anything; it's just sitting vertically on the insulation. Without any fine tuning or adjustments I get all the local HD and SD signals from Channels 2 (CBS), 4 (NBC), 5 (CW), 7 (ABC), 9 (Ind/CBS), 11 (Fox), PBS (28 & 50), including the all-weather and all-news broadcasts from NBC and ABC and a plethora of other UHF broadcasts. For some reason we only get the analog signal for Channel 13 (MyNetwork). According to antennaweb I need a "violet" antenna; according to the chart at 2150.com we are just outside of the broadcast range of the transmitter.

I have no experience with other similar antennas, but I am very satisfied with this one.

Related to my range limitation, I am not a gearhead, and I did not see an obvious (external) adjustment for this antenna. Is there anything I can do the improve on what I already think is a good thing?

Late Add: To clarify the VHF situation for me, we do get decent SD signals from the stations in the VHF band (2 thru 13) compared to what we had with the "rabbit ears" we used previously. Even though we do not get the digital version of Channel 13 (see comment above), we do receive their analog signal...

I just got a new HDTV and am new to this. I want to get OTA HD channels, but am not sure which antenna to get. Can anyone recommend one? My budget is no more than $100 (though the cheaper the better) for this and I prefer an indoor one, so I don't have to deal with all the hassle of going on the roof or through the attic. Any suggestions?

Where are you?
At least zipcode and preferably nearby cross streets....

I'm located at 92870

Hello,

I presently have two HDTV's supplied by cable co DVR's. I am considering changing to satellite service and adding an antenna for OTA locals. I went to Antenna web and found the following info:

Ant type Call sign Chan Netw. Compass Miles Freq
==============================================
green - uhf KISU-DT 10.1 PBS 257° 29.8 17
red - vhf KIDK 3 CBS 256° 29.8 3
red - uhf KIDK-DT 3.1 CBS 256° 29.9 36
red - vhf KIFI 8 ABC 256° 29.6 8
red - vhf KPVI 6 NBC 186° 42.4 6
red - uhf KPVI-DT 6.1 NBC 186° 42.4 23
red - uhf KPIF 15 CW 194° 49.5 15
red - uhf KFXP 31 FOX 186° 42.4 31
red - vhf KISU 10 PBS 257° 29.8 10


I am about a half mile south of an airport. The 257 degree compass orientation would cross the west end of the runway and 186 degrees is nearly due south of the airport. In talking with the sales folks at the local big box stores, they say most people are able to tune in the channels that are ~30 miles away with an indoor antenna. The ones further south are a bit more problematic.

I have visited with a local satellite installer for both Dish and Direct. They also do OTA antenna installs. They are expensive at $250 for the installation. The installers recommended a Winegard PR 7032. Any thoughts on this antenna for my application? Are there smaller antennas that would work just as well? If needed, my zip is 83402. The terrain is flat between my home and the two broadcast locations (compass orientation 257 and 186).

Thank you for any assistance you can provide!

All the best,

Rick

I think that the Winegard PR 7032 would be marginal in your situation. I'd go with the Channel Master CM3679. It would probably perform well with no dropouts in all weather/atmosphere/aircraft conditions. Use an antenna preamp if your coax run is more than 50 feet. Since this antenna has a narrow beam width of 30 degreees you'll probably need a rotor if you can't (or don't want to) manually reposition for aiming at the transmitter towers. 15 to 20 foot mast ought to be good.

Is there any difference between a silver sensor and the Terk HDTVa , in terms of quality uhf signal reception? Thanks

I just got a new HDTV and am new to this. I want to get OTA HD channels, but am not sure which antenna to get. Can anyone recommend one? My budget is no more than $100 (though the cheaper the better) for this and I prefer an indoor one, so I don't have to deal with all the hassle of going on the roof or through the attic. Any suggestions?
Not sure where you are...but I, too, was on a budget. I just got the Radio Shack 15-2187 indoor/outdoor directional antenna. I live 55 miles from the main towers and get 75-80% signal. My only regret is that I did not do this 6 months ago. I mounted it inside the house on a plant ledge overlooking the living room.

I live in Los Gatos , California, zip 95032.I also just bought the RS 15-2187 and mounted on a lamp post on the second story, aiming at Mt. Sutro. Great reception for all the stations. but cannot get those from Mt. San Bruno, namely channel 2 and channel 11. Those are VHF, I tried varying angles horizontally/vertically, no avail. Any suggestion what to do next.

Is there any difference between a silver sensor and the Terk HDTVa , in terms of quality uhf signal reception? Thanks
UHF performance is about the same comparing unamplified Terk HDTVi to
unamplified Silver Sensor:
http://www.amazon.com/tag/silver%20sensor
However, Terk HDTVi has collapsible rabbit ears for VHF that are not found in
unamplified Silver Sensor:
http://www.amazon.com/Terk-Technology-HDTVi-Indoor-Antenna/dp/B0001FV36E/

Performance is also about the same comparing the amplified Terk HDTVa to
the amplified Silver Sensor (both have rabbit ears for VHF):
http://www.amazon.com/Philips-PHDTV3-Indoor-Powered-Antenna/dp/B000B58VNM
Note the "kid-friendly" packaging....this would be my choice....

However, amplified antennas should not be used within about 5 miles of
local towers to prevent overload and bear in mind most indoor antennas
are insufficient when you're distant from towers.

I recently moved my Comcast/Motorola STB downstairs for use with the new plasma, so instead of renting another STB, I want to try to get HD OTA on the other HDTV upstairs.

I went to Radio Shack and picked up 2 antennas, but I don't think either is working. Perhaps, I don't have either setup correctly?

In any event, I picked up the 15-1892 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2131034&cp) and the 15-1868 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062081).

Below is the info from TV Fool (zip of 98059):

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r71/JawKnee37/Radar-Digital.png


Should either one of the antennas that I bought work for me? Thanks and Happy Holidays!

I recently moved my Comcast/Motorola STB downstairs for use with the new plasma, so instead of renting another STB, I want to try to get HD OTA on the other HDTV upstairs.

I went to Radio Shack and picked up 2 antennas, but I don't think either is working. Perhaps, I don't have either setup correctly?

In any event, I picked up the 15-1892 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2131034&cp) and the 15-1868 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062081).

Below is the info from TV Fool (zip of 98059):

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r71/JawKnee37/Radar-Digital.png

Should either one of the antennas that I bought work for me? Thanks and Happy Holidays!
Both should work, though the first may have better directionallity. Since this is the upstairs location, you should have decent signal access. You are within 20 miles of the broadcast towers.

You might want to see if the antenna works better when you place it near a window facing toward your local broadcast towers. It's possible you can not receive the signals through your siding. For example, foil lined insulation can turn your house into a virtual Faraday Cage:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage

Or your house might be screened by trees. Or it might be down in a valley. Lots of factors can limit the signal strength from the broadcast towers.

Sometimes it's necessary to place an antenna in the attic or on the roof to attain the signal level needed.

Just set up my HDTV and am now looking to receive some OTA local channels... I'm sorry not to have read through 100+ pages, hope someone out there doesn't mind offering me some advice!

Here is my info from TVFool:



I would like to receive as many of the listed channels as possible. I can mount on top of my house (about 30 ft) and price and size aren't an issue, although I'd prefer not to use a rotor. Mainly just trying to get the networks in HD! D*sh Network is my satellite provider if that makes a difference, and I am signed up for local channels.

Thanks in advance, hope someone can help, let me know if you need more info!

edited to add: Is there one brand of antenna that is definitely heads above the rest for rural areas trying to receive HD? :)

I would like to receive as many of the listed channels as possible. I can mount on top of my house (about 30 ft) and price and size aren't an issue, although I'd prefer not to use a rotor. Mainly just trying to get the networks in HD! D*sh Network is my satellite provider if that makes a difference, and I am signed up for local channels.

The requirement to go without a rotator makes things hard for you, but that's not a bad decision.

I'd opt for an all-channel antenna aimed at the Albany DTV tower plus a UHF only aimed at Hartford. The cheap and easy method to share directions is a simple A/B switch. To add the antennas together full time you should get a Jointenna tuned to channel 32 (halfway between 31 and 33, which would work for both WFSB-DT and WTIC-DT. The problem then is that PBS from Albany, WMHT-DT, is on channel 34, which won't make it through the Jointenna and your other choice for PBS is on channel 45, the same as WCWN analog, which will interfere with WEDH-DT.

I'd guess that the Albany stations would be HD on Dish Network sometime in 2008. As such, you could get a Winegard HD7082P now, aim it at Albany, and turn it toward Hartford when you get locals in HD from Echostar.

If you can't get the stations with just the antenna, you are a good candidate for a preamp.

Thanks for the info Tower Guy!

I was looking at the Winegard HD7082P earlier today as one of my choices, so it's nice to hear someone who knows what they are talking about recommending the same antenna I was already looking at! :) I'm guessing Winegard is a top name..

If I pointed the Winegard at Albany now do you know how many stations I'd be looking at getting without pointing another antenna towards Hartford? I can't seem to figure out where all of these channels are coming from!

I'm also a newbie when it comes to Jointennas - is this a brand name, how does it work, and where can I get one? :)

Thanks for the info Tower Guy!

I was looking at the Winegard HD7082P earlier today as one of my choices, so it's nice to hear someone who knows what they are talking about recommending the same antenna I was already looking at! :) I'm guessing Winegard is a top name..

If I pointed the Winegard at Albany now do you know how many stations I'd be looking at getting without pointing another antenna towards Hartford? I can't seem to figure out where all of these channels are coming from!

I'm also a newbie when it comes to Jointennas - is this a brand name, how does it work, and where can I get one? :)

The Winegard antenna performs well and can survive some ice and wind. My experience with an all-channel Radio Shack antenna wasn't so good, but their UHF only has been on my roof for more than 20 years.

Your tvfool data shows which stations are strong enough to work readily available antennas. Look at the color code on the line for the station. Yellow ones are relatively easy, pink ones work when the antenna is installed with a preamp in an optimum location. In your case, The only Albany station that isn't yellow is the CW affiliate, WCWN. You would add a preamp to eliminate any dropouts, to add a splitter for multiple TVs, or to compensate for a long cable run.

Here is info on Jointennas: http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/Jointennas.htm

great help - I've sent you a pm!

Often the terms are used interchangeably and each segment of the industry has their own definition. Universally accepted: A preamp amplifies the signal at the beginning of the signal chain (antenna) to reduce noise that lines and other components may impart on the signal. An amp of course is a more general term and does not imply what type of amp or where it is located. However, by not calling an amp a preamp, it is probably a final amp and used just prior to the last segment of the signal chain.

So much information my head is swimming. :)

OK So this is what I think I understand. I live in the Bay Area and I am about 35 Miles from the towers. CBS and ABC are digital HD on UHF and NBC is VHF Only 10 compass points apart. If I get a DB8 and aim at the towers I will not get the VHF signals?

The only other NBC that broadcast on UHF is about 45 Miles away and 40 compass points differant.

So Directional is NOT a good idea? What would be a good option to get both?

So much information my head is swimming. :)
Let me make it swim some more. A good website with HD and antenna information is:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/


OK So this is what I think I understand. I live in the Bay Area and I am about 35 Miles from the towers. CBS and ABC are digital HD on UHF and NBC is VHF Only 10 compass points apart. If I get a DB8 and aim at the towers I will not get the VHF signals?
Depends on the antenna. A Channel Master 4228 can pull in the upper VHF channels (channel 7-13). It's not all that strong, so you might want a dedicated VHF antenna for NBC.

Also, is NBC really on VHF as a digital signal? I doubt it. That channel might move back to VHF, but it might not. One of the channels in my area will move the digital signal back to VHF channel 13 when Feb 2009 roles around. Until then I watch the UHF HD simulcast of the analog signal on channel 13.


The only other NBC that broadcast on UHF is about 45 Miles away and 40 compass points differant.

So Directional is NOT a good idea? What would be a good option to get both?
Really? I would think by now most major networks have all their affiliates broadcasting both a analog and digital signal. You can check with the TVFool:

http://www.tvfool.com/

This site provides signal strength and direction based on your location and height. For example, it will show you what happens if the antenna is indoors or on the roof.

If you could provide your just zipcode, we might be able to provide more detailed suggestions.

By the way, at those distance you will want to preamplify the signal.

No doubt others can provide more detailed responses.

So much information my head is swimming. :)

OK So this is what I think I understand. I live in the Bay Area and I am about 35 Miles from the towers. CBS and ABC are digital HD on UHF and NBC is VHF Only 10 compass points apart. If I get a DB8 and aim at the towers I will not get the VHF signals?
The DB-8 has poor performance for upper VHF. The Channel Master 4228 is better - in terms of the 8 Bay bowties - for upper VHF because of the large reflection screen. If you want help with antenna recommendations, your zip code is much more useful so we can look up the local stations and your distance to them. We can also look up the final digital channel assignments for the local stations.

To answer the other poster: 'Also, is NBC really on VHF as a digital signal? I doubt it.". Yes, it is. KNTV-DT NBC 11 in San Jose is broadcasting on VHF 12. Don't assume that because in your market all the analog VHF stations are UHF, that this is true everywhere. In Las Vegas for example, they have 5 analog and 4 digital stations on VHF. Las Vegas does not have any nearby cities filling up other VHF slots, so in Vegas, some of the local stations could use VHF for digital broadcasting from the start (unfortunately with the NBC station on VHF 2 - ouch!).

We need your location (e.g. zipcode plus nearby cross streets)
to check for nearby local broadcast towers and intervening hills.

Or DIY and enter your location into www.tvfool.com and post
BOTH the Analog and Digital *.png files.

We need your location (e.g. zipcode plus nearby cross streets)
to check for nearby local broadcast towers and intervening hills.

Or DIY and enter your location into <Snip> and post
BOTH the Analog and Digital *.png files.

I live in Livermore, CA Zip code 94550 main street nearby is El Padro Dr

Thanks for the help!

I live in Livermore, CA Zip code 94550 main street nearby is El Padro Dr
I added 300' for the antenna height under options for your zip code into antennaweb.org to get a more complete list of digital stations as antennaweb is conservative on digital reception. The color codes this results in are not valid, but even with 300', I get purple color codes for your zip code which strongly suggest you should be looking at a rooftop antenna. The attic might work depending on the construction of the house.

Antennaweb shows the following digital stations:

* yellow - vhf KNTV-DT 11.1 NBC SAN JOSE CA 259° 39.3 12
* yellow - uhf KTFK-DT 64.1 SAH STOCKTON CA 311° 19.4 62
* red - uhf KTNC-DT 42.1 AZA CONCORD CA 315° 19.5 63
* violet - uhf KTVU-DT 2.1 FOX OAKLAND CA 266° 40.8 56
* violet - uhf KCSM-DT 43.1 PBS SAN MATEO CA 266° 40.8 43
* violet - uhf KQED-DT 9.1 PBS SAN FRANCISCO CA 266° 40.8 30
* violet - uhf KRON-DT 4.1 MNT SAN FRANCISCO CA 266° 40.8 57
* violet - uhf KGO-DT 7.1 ABC SAN FRANCISCO CA 266° 40.8 24
* violet - uhf KMTP-DT 33.1 IND SAN FRANCISCO CA 266° 40.8 33
* violet - uhf KPIX-DT 5.1 CBS SAN FRANCISCO CA 266° 40.8 29
* violet - uhf KCNS-DT 38.1 SAH SAN FRANCISCO CA 266° 40.8 39
* violet - uhf KOVR-DT 13.1 CBS STOCKTON CA 1° 42.5 25
* violet - uhf KBWB-DT 20.1 IND SAN FRANCISCO CA 266° 40.8 19

The San Francisco stations are around 40 miles and in the same direction, so a directional antenna will work. The Sacramento / Stockton stations are over 90° away at some 44 miles to the north. KGO-DT ABC 7 will switch from UHF 24 to VHF 7 after the analog shutdown in February, 2009. So the antenna needs to cover upper VHF 7 to 13 and UHF.

With the 90° difference between the two cluster of stations, you should get a rotator so you can switch between the cities and tweak the aim. The CM 4228 is a possibility although it may not have enough gain for upper VHF. Another possibility is a good VHF/UHF antenna such as a Winegard HD7084P. What you should do is plug your exact address into antennaweb.org (with an antenna height of 100') as well as tvfool.com to see what they predict for signal strength.

With the 90° difference between the two cluster of stations, you should get a rotator so you can switch between the cities and tweak the aim. The CM 4228 is a possibility although it may not have enough gain for upper VHF. Another possibility is a good VHF/UHF antenna such as a Winegard HD7084P. What you should do is plug your exact address into antennaweb.org (with an antenna height of 100') as well as tvfool.com to see what they predict for signal strength.


OK thanks for your patience. I think I am starting to understand.

A few more facts:

I plan a rooftop installation
I can go rotor, not my first choice, but if that is best, I’m in.
I really don’t want to go to high with my mast; mainly I don’t want to use Guide Wires
My house has 2 chimneys, so I was hoping to strap a 10-15 foot mast to one
Preamps and Amps are no problem; I will split the signal once if it does not affect the main set too much (Bedroom set is old SD TV)

I still don’t understand how to read the signal strengths

The address of the installation is 12xx El Padro Dr, Livermore CA 94550

I really thank you for your help. Sometimes this whole process starts to get overwhelming and I start to think about staying with D*TV. :mad:

My main goal is to set up a good install so I can get OTA Locals and save $65+ a month, so I don't mind putting out a little extra upfront

> I live in the Bay Area and I am about 35 Miles from the towers.
> CBS and ABC are digital HD on UHF and NBC is VHF Only 10 compass points apart.

Are these the only TV stations you care about? No PBS, Fox, UPN, WB/CW, etc?

> If I get a DB8 and aim at the towers I will not get the VHF signals?

The DB8 is intended for UHF only. You might get lucky and get good enough
VHF reception from it. If not, add a VHF-HI antenna such as the Winegard YA-1713.

>> With the 90DEG difference between the two cluster of stations, you should get a rotator
> I can go rotor, not my first choice, but if that is best, I'm in.

With a rotor, you can't watch/record stations from two directions at once.
And how do you get a DVR to control the rotor? Consider multiple antennas instead.

> My house has 2 chimneys, so I was hoping to strap a 10-15 foot mast to one

Be aware that exhaust fumes will contribute to corrosion. You might try
seeing if you can get good reception from the attic.

I live on a hill, but 20 miles away from the only two transmitting stations I am interested in. They are separated by only about 10° All my stations are digital CH 13-38

I am using rabbit-ears right now, and they work OK, but I sometimes get digital artifacs when it is snowing or raining. My upstairs TV gets better reception than the downstairs (as one might expect)

Any recommendations ?
Thanks.

OK thanks for your patience. I think I am starting to understand.

A few more facts:

I plan a rooftop installation
I can go rotor, not my first choice, but if that is best, I’m in.
I really don’t want to go to high with my mast; mainly I don’t want to use Guide Wires
My house has 2 chimneys, so I was hoping to strap a 10-15 foot mast to one
Preamps and Amps are no problem; I will split the signal once if it does not affect the main set too much (Bedroom set is old SD TV)

I still don’t understand how to read the signal strengths

The address of the installation is 12xx El Padro Dr, Livermore CA 94550

I really thank you for your help. Sometimes this whole process starts to get overwhelming and I start to think about staying with D*TV. :mad:

My main goal is to set up a good install so I can get OTA Locals and save $65+ a month, so I don't mind putting out a little extra upfront
Below are snapshots from RADIO MOBILE Propagation Prediction Program.

Sutro Towers is the futuristic triple tower structure on top of hill in central S.F.
NBC (CH12) comes from a nearby hill SE of Daly City with only a very small
(negligible) difference in angle of arrival.

"RX Relative" is the amount of "excess" gain needed to overcome multipath
fading and seasonal variations....at least 20 dB and preferably 30+ dB is needed.

"Worse case" CW and FOX stations had "RX Relative" of about 40 dB, presuming
Preamp and moderate gain antenna.
Without Preamp, this will probably shrink to barely 30 dB Fade Margin.
Actual numbers would be somewhat less due to various other loss factors,
as I've explained in spread sheet calculators previously posted herein....

Any moderate to high gain UHF antenna will bring in DTV stations from Sutro Towers.
That's all of the networks plus others listed in tvfool at 37.8 miles (280 degrees).

NBC CH12, the "i" network and KTSF-DT broadcast from Daly City Towers, which
is slightly south of Sutro Towers. The Fade Margin with and without Preamp
was about same as for CW + FOX.

You don't need a rotator if these are adequate for your needs.
If you want MyNetwork (KQCA-DT), you'll need a rotator and may be iffy even with
a Preamp. Weaker stations are even less likely, e.g."RX(dbm)" below -100 dBm....

W-G HDP-269 Preamp or one of the other low-gain W-G models will avoid
desensitization problems from nearby stations. (Skip the high gain CM-7777.)

The CM-4228 "should" pick up CH12...but if you still want analog CH2-6,
a big combo would be better.

You can mount a CM-4228 on a pole attached to either just the ledger
board or on a pole attached to the building for rigidity (see page 12):
http://www.solidsignal.com/manuals/AntInstallGuide.pdf
and also:
http://www.summitsource.com/winegard-ds2016-antenna-mount-satellite-wall-base-j-pipe-ds2016-dish-tv-universal-offset-support-ds2000-28-tower-roof-top-tube-part-ds2016-p-6498.html?osCsid=c659e87400059051300c7cbdb54fc846
http://www.summitsource.com/product_info.php?products_id=5178
http://www.summitsource.com/antenna-mast-wall-mount-4-w-bracket-kit-support-heavy-duty-mounting-complete-outdoor-side-of-house-support-hardware-part-pvwb4-p-6483.html

I'm in need of an HD antenna in the office located in Emeryville, CA. I'm right on the water, overlooking san francisco, 13 floors up. An indoor antenna is a must. The antenna must also receive signal through one conference room into an adjacent room across the hall. Think of it like the conference room is in a larger O and the media room is in a smaller o maybe 10 feet away. the conference room is a little wider than the hallway which would put it at 10-20ft.

i did a quick tvfool lookup, and it appears everything is green. Since this is an office setup, money not being an issue, whats the best indoor antenna i can get?

thanks in advance :)

I've got two UHF antennas in my attic pointing in different directions. I've also got two CM7777 pre-amps on these two antennas which I need to overcome cable loss. What I want to do is amplify both UHF antennas before combining and run the combined signal down the same cable. Since the pre-amps (PA) are in the attic, and the power supply (PS) for them is downstairs, one way I could do this is use a splitter/combiner between the PS and the PA. However the splitter/combiner would have to be able to pass DC power to the PA. Does anyone know if they make splitter/combiners that will pass DC? A corrolary of this question is can two PAs operate off one PS?

Another way to do this would be to actually put the two PSs in the attic with the two PAs. I could then combine after the PA and feed down one cable. There are two problems with this however. The PSs are not designed to operate in extreme temperatures like the PAs and might fail. Also it is nice to be able to control the power to the PA from downstairs so you don't have to leave the PA on all the time.

Hi,

I'm having some weird problems and I was hoping someone could help me out. I've rewired my aerial, as the cable was over several pieces of varying quality. I've now got a single 20m (60ft) run of RG6, however connecting it isn't working as expected.
Currently the setup is

Aerial<-->F-Type Connector<-->RG6 Cable<-->TV Coax connector<-->TV

This is about as simple as it gets, although a splitter will be inserted when things are working correctly.

What doesn't work: Well - when the shield of the cable is connected to the F-Type I get no signal - only static. I actually get a decent signal with just cable and my finger on the core, and then as soon as the outer part of the connector touches the shield - no signal. Without the shield connected to the F-Type the signal is not too bad - but with some interference.
Why is this?? - I've checked the both connectors throughly - and there is no rouge short between the core and the shield.

Currently I have Analogue SDTV - but will move to OTA DTV in about 6 months. I'd like the picture as clear as possible - which it used to be before I touched anything!


Col.

I've got two UHF antennas in my attic pointing in different directions. I've also got two CM7777 pre-amps on these two antennas which I need to overcome cable loss. What I want to do is amplify both UHF antennas before combining and run the combined signal down the same cable. Since the pre-amps (PA) are in the attic, and the power supply (PS) for them is downstairs, one way I could do this is use a splitter/combiner between the PS and the PA. However the splitter/combiner would have to be able to pass DC power to the PA. Does anyone know if they make splitter/combiners that will pass DC? A corrolary of this question is can two PAs operate off one PS?

Another way to do this would be to actually put the two PSs in the attic with the two PAs. I could then combine after the PA and feed down one cable. There are two problems with this however. The PSs are not designed to operate in extreme temperatures like the PAs and might fail. Also it is nice to be able to control the power to the PA from downstairs so you don't have to leave the PA on all the time.
Check out "SATELLITE" RF Splitters at your local electronic store or home center.
Some have "DC PASS" on one port and some have it on BOTH ports
(e.g. RS 16-2568 and Zenith ZDS5010):
http://www.radioshack.com/sm-satellite-2-way-splitter--pi-2103928.html
http://www.amazon.com/ZENITH-ZDS-5010-Digital-Satellite-Splitters/dp/B00009W3X0

========================================
I don't see any DC current draw specs for CM-7777
(you could measure it with a VOM meter....plus maybe 20% when it's really hot).
FWIW: Footnote for similar Spartan series says they'll draw 100 ma current
using SAT Receiver as DC source.

The max DC output current (in ma) should be on the label on your DC Power Module.

I'm in need of an HD antenna in the office located in Emeryville, CA. I'm right on the water, overlooking san francisco, 13 floors up. An indoor antenna is a must. The antenna must also receive signal through one conference room into an adjacent room across the hall. Think of it like the conference room is in a larger O and the media room is in a smaller o maybe 10 feet away. the conference room is a little wider than the hallway which would put it at 10-20ft.

i did a quick tvfool lookup, and it appears everything is green. Since this is an office setup, money not being an issue, whats the best indoor antenna i can get?

thanks in advance :)

Doesn't look like anyone else has responded, so here's my two cents...

First, a word of warning. Many office buildings use a reflective coating on the windows that have metallic content. This can turn the entire building into the equivalant of a big metal box. This might make indoor reception extremely difficult.

Even if the windows are not a problem, there may be rebar and/or foil-backed insulation in the walls that will also make reception difficult.

Assuming that your building composition is cooperative, then I have a few questions:

1) Is this a temporary setup or long term?
2) Are you interested in all digital channels or just one?
3) Can you access the space above the drop-ceiling?
4) Are you willing to ask for roof access (sometimes it's easier than you think)?
5) Are there any constraints on antenna visibility/appearance?



Until you answer those, here are some very general comments/recommendations:

- If your building is "easy", then a simple indoor antenna may be all that you need. The best compact set-top type antenna is the Philips PHDTV1 (UHF only) or Terk HDTVi (non-amplified version).

- For "tough" buildings, you'll want to try some really good outdoor antennas and use them inside. Two of the best outdoor antennas are the Channel Master 4228 and the Antennas Direct 91XG. Both are fairly large, so this is where appearance and placement may become an issue. These were designed to be mounted on a mast, so you may need to get creative.

- You might want to place the antenna in a different room or put it right against the window facing the transmitters. You could run a length of coax from the antenna to your media room, using the space above the drop-ceiling.

- For longer term installations and "really tough" buildings, you might want to see if the building manager is willing to let you put something on the roof. There should already be pre-existing roof entry points and cable-chases that run through the building. The work to do it is actually quite simple assuming you can work out the details with the landlord. I've done this on many occasions.



Best regards,
Andy

I'm in need of an HD antenna in the office located in Emeryville, CA. I'm right on the water, overlooking san francisco, 13 floors up. An indoor antenna is a must. The antenna must also receive signal through one conference room into an adjacent room across the hall. Think of it like the conference room is in a larger O and the media room is in a smaller o maybe 10 feet away. the conference room is a little wider than the hallway which would put it at 10-20ft.

i did a quick tvfool lookup, and it appears everything is green. Since this is an office setup, money not being an issue, whats the best indoor antenna i can get?

thanks in advance :)

As Andy stated above, you may need to try using an outdoor antenna but before you do, definitely start simple by picking up one of the set-top type of antenna and try it. If it doesn't work carry it back to the store and go on to bigger and better antennas. You never know...

I would think the 91XG (http://search.solidsignal.com/?q=91xg&site=tv&new_search=1) would be more cumbersome in the confines of your office than the CM4228 (http://www.solidsignal.tv/prod_display.asp?PROD=ANC4228) would be...the 91XG being a LONG antenna where as the CM4228 (http://www.solidsignal.tv/prod_display.asp?PROD=ANC4228) is a flat, rectangular one. You might could even hide the CM4228 inside of a artistically painted box hanging on the wall. The 91XG (http://search.solidsignal.com/?q=91xg&site=tv&new_search=1) will handle multi-path problems better than the CM4228 (http://www.solidsignal.tv/prod_display.asp?PROD=ANC4228), though.

Either way you go it will be interesting to see how things work out being as the antenna appears to be enveloped within several layers of the building.

Something like this might be worth looking into, though I feel the CM4228 might be better... Ratshack antenna (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?summary=summary&techSpecs=techSpecs&currentTab=techSpecs&custRatings=custRatings&features=features&accessories=accessories&productId=2253765&support=support&tab=features).

Best wishes with your project!
Ed

Hi all -

Hoping one of you experts can help me out.

I have Dish Network and wanted OTA locals in HD so just put an antenna on the roof this afternoon.

I have just installed a CM 3671 w/ a CM 7777 preamp. I have it pointed at the transmitter in Albany NY and I'm receiving FOX and NBC beautifully - signals of 90+ However, I can't even find ABC, CBS, and PBS which all are listed as being transmitted from the same tower. It looks like I am only getting VHF, but I was lead to believe the 3671 was a VHF/UHF and that the default setting for the 7777 was for both?

So I'm not sure if there is a setting on the antenna (never saw one), in the preamp, or maybe a dish network tuner setting? I have the VIP 622dvr.

I'm a bit confused (and disappointed), hopefully someone has an easy answer for me!

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/johnstonamerica/Radar-Digital.png

The 7777 has a "uhf/combined" and "vhf/separate" input. Be sure you are connected to "uhf/combined". The internal switches should be set by default to "combined" and FM trap "in" which should be correct for you. If it still doesn't work, you'll need to disconnect the preamp, open it up, and check the internal switches.

Thanks cpcat - I'm thinking the same thing - though I'm sure I'm connected to the UHF combined...

Can you think of any other reason I'd be getting Fox & NBC so well and nothing else?

Thanks cpcat - I'm thinking the same thing - though I'm sure I'm connected to the UHF combined...

Can you think of any other reason I'd be getting Fox & NBC so well and nothing else?
I agree with cpcat, open the CM 7777 and check the switch settings and that the co-axial is connected to the combined input. Try manually tuning to 26.1, the actual broadcast channel for WTEN-DT and see if you get anything on the signal meter. You can manually enter the actual broadcast channel with many ATSC tuners.

[QUOTE=

Can you think of any other reason I'd be getting Fox & NBC so well and nothing else?[/QUOTE]

Yep,the tuner in the 622 is set to cable instead of antenna or off-air.

Thanks afiggatt - I've tried to manually scan but get absolutely no signal above the 12 (WNYT).

I'll have to climb up on the roof tomorrow am (it's freezing rain and dark here now :)) and check the 7777.. I stupidly thought it would have been set to UHF by default and never opened it to check before I put it up!

Hey Max - where do I find that setting? I've checked and can't seem to find a place to change the 622 to antenna instead of cable..

ahh, n/m MAX - found it! You were right, I've found some more channels now!

The plot thickens however :) I still can't get CBS.. hrm..

I now have:

Fox (XXA)
NBC (NYT)
ABC (TEN)
IND (TBY)

But not

CBS (RGB)
PBS (MHT)

How the heck can I get 4 from the same tower as the 2 I can't get? *scratches head*

But not

CBS (RGB)
PBS (MHT)

How the heck can I get 4 from the same tower as the 2 I can't get? *scratches head*

WRGB (39) and WMHT (34) are on higher UHF frequencies than WTEN (26). Higher frequencies have a harder time bending around terrain and getting through other obstructions, which may be enough to make the difference in your case. I see that all of these signals are 2+ edge signals from the TV Fool plot.

A few more thoughts/questions:

1) What results are you getting for analog UHF?
2) Does the receiver show any signal strength for the missing DTV channels?
3) What is the strength for WTEN?
4) WTBY is coming in even though it is 96 degrees off of the main site. This appears to be close to a side lobe on the antenna, but I would suggest double checking your aim. Have you tested aiming the antenna at different angles as well?
5) Have you tried pointing your antenna to Hartford to check the results or is the view in that direction more difficult?

Hey Falcon_77!

I believe now that it is a pointing issue - I have been up on the roof this am and turned it a bit away from the WTBY and have now picked up CBS (WRGB) - the weird thing is that I have now lost ABC and the antenna seems to be pointed more North than Northwest.. maybe CBS is bouncing off of a hill or something?

In any case, I think it's just going to be touchy as I'm so far out and I may have to choose between ABC & CBS...

In any case, I think it's just going to be touchy as I'm so far out and I may have to choose between ABC & CBS...

With your situation mainly requiring uhf and vhf hi, you could easily separate the two with either a uhf yagi like the antennasdirect xg91 or the cm4228 for uhf and use something like an antennacraft y10 7-13 for vhf hi. This would increase your performance, allow independent aiming for uhf and vhf, and you'd still have less windload on the mast compared to the 3671.

You'd need around 48 inch spacing on the mast between the two and I'd probably put the uhf higher up. You could probably get away with even less spacing if you had to but you'd just need to experiment. The spacing will affect the vhf performance first.

Thanks so much to everyone - I think instead of using two antennas (especially since I just bought this one) I may consider a rotor - I am now only missing FOX OTA but still have it via my dish so that may even be good enough until Dish gets the Albany networks to me in HD... who knows when that will be though :)

Thanks again to everyone who replied to me - awesome advice - friendly and informative! :)

Sorry if this has been asked before--long thread. Is there anything wrong with installing a distribution amp and a preamp together? I have in mind the CM 3044 in line with the CM 7777. I do not want to use a 4-way splitter because of signal loss, but I am worried about amplifying noise too much if I use 2 amplifiers. Thanks.

Sorry if this has been asked before--long thread. Is there anything wrong with installing a distribution amp and a preamp together? I have in mind the CM 3044 in line with the CM 7777. I do not want to use a 4-way splitter because of signal loss, but I am worried about amplifying noise too much if I use 2 amplifiers. Thanks.

In most cases a distribution amplifier will overload when used with a 7777 preamp. With a 7777 preamp a distribution amp is completely unnecessary, even when split 4 ways.

Great idea Rick but I'm not sure I want to go much higher with my mast.

Right now I have the 3' CM tripod holding a 5' mast with the 3671 on top. Wouldn't I have to get another mast - 8' to 10' in order to stack them? I don't want to have to put guide wires up..

I thought I was doing well to buy the CM 3671 as it stated "deep fringe" - Should I have considered another antenna if I wanted to try for all the channels with one unit?

ahh awesome - sounds pretty straight forward!

now I have a new problem :)

just watching CBS OTA and am noticing major "stuttering" of the picture - it will freeze for a fraction of a second, then catch up, then freeze again... very annoying :)

what is my problem now!!?? heheh

I should mention that it doesn't seem to stutter at all during commercials - and it is definitley worse in "action" scenes where there is quick movement...

I should mention that it doesn't seem to stutter at all during commercials - and it is definitley worse in "action" scenes where there is quick movement...


I see that too. It may not be a reception problem.

ahh good to know - I'll wait it out.. thanks TG!

ahh awesome - sounds pretty straight forward!



Just sticking a bug in your ear again. The antennacraft y10 7-13 is only around 30 bucks (last I checked) and will be significantly lighter/less load than keeping the 3671 up there. I'd say many of us here have more than one antenna lying around because we decided to take it down.:) Here's a pic of a setup I had some time back with the CM7777 and separate uhf/vhf hi sections, the y10 7-13 is below. 48 inch spacing is good, but you could probably get away with around 36 inches if you had to. If you want to add a rotator later, you could also consider just rotating the uhf section and leaving the vhf fixed. That will allow you to keep a short mast segment above the rotator for less stress:

Here's another pic. Obviously, you would have only one yagi on top (the xg91 or whatever). You could leave out the rotator for now and the yagi would go about where my rotator is and should be OK for spacing.

And for anyone else interested I'll use this as an excuse to show off a quad:

Triax Unix 100 Band A's
Lindsay quad combiner
Sitco pa24 preamp

Thanks cpcat! :)

Is the Y10 7-13 better at grabbing VHF than the 3671 or is it just lighter?

Also, is the XG91 definitely my best bet for pulling in those really weak UHF signals?

Thanks for the pics, looks like you've had more than one set up!! :)

Thanks cpcat! :)

Is the Y10 7-13 better at grabbing VHF than the 3671 or is it just lighter?

Also, is the XG91 definitely my best bet for pulling in those really weak UHF signals?

Thanks for the pics, looks like you've had more than one set up!! :)

The problem with a Y10 7-13 and a XG-91 is that there is no low band VHF ability. The CBS affiliate in Albany will be returning to channel 6 in February 2009.

I'm thinking I may still just use a rotor - I can get decent signals from the 3671 but just need to point them in slightly different directions. This seems a bit strange to me as I understand everything is broadcasting from the same tower, but you can't refute the facts :)

It seems I have to point the antenna further north in order to catch CBS, which still leaves me with NBC & ABC, but loses FOX and PBS. I've tried turning it back westward by very small degrees w/ my girlfriend yelling from the livingroom to see if I can find a spot to catch everything but it's a no-go. As soon as I turn it back far enough I lose one or the other.

That's why I'm a bit concerned about installing another UHF only (even if it is able to pick up weaker signals) - because it would still have to be able to catch the northward CBS and the NW FOX w/o moving.

A rotor seems to be the simple fix as I can get decent signal strengths, just need to turn slightly.

Now I need to teach myself how to install a rotor and to find the best brand :)

I'm assuming the mast that hold the antenna is slid into a slightly bigger mast in the tripod so it can turn in that??

OK, doing some digging it looks like the rotor attaches to a mast, then the mast w/ your antenna sits on a "shelf" on the rotor and turns that way.. simple enough.

Is a 5' mast too tall if the rotor is on the bottom and the 3671 is on top - i.e. - about 5 ft of mast between the rotor and the top of the antenna? Just need to know if that will put too much strain on the rotor...

Yes, using the CM 7777... interesting...

If I were to just unplug the power to the preamp would I be able to tell if this is my problem? Or will I have to bypass it altogether to check?

Also, the strength is not only going down as I turn it, but will cut out completely after a certain point..

And for anyone else interested I'll use this as an excuse to show off a quad:

Triax Unix 100 Band A's
Lindsay quad combiner
Sitco pa24 preamp

You must have some severe multi-path issues for a configuration such as this. Have you tried stacking 2 on 2?

Yes, using the CM 7777... interesting...

If I were to just unplug the power to the preamp would I be able to tell if this is my problem? Or will I have to bypass it altogether to check?

Also, the strength is not only going down as I turn it, but will cut out completely after a certain point..


You would need to first unplug the Pre-amp, then bypass it completely. Be sure to unplug the power before disconnecting the cables at the antenna or it could short circuit the pre-amp.

I believe you found the problem, sounds just like too much pre-amp to me. Do you split the signal at all, or have a long cable run from antenna to TV? 75' or more? If not you don't need that much pre-amp.

I was planning on splitting to an upstairs TV - cable run is 50'

I just figured I would need a preamp because the transmitter is about 50 miles away.. and there are a few hills between me and it...

I'd take the pre-amp off. I think your over amplified. You've got a huge antenna on the roof, and have a short run going to only one TV right now, so that is definetely creating more problems than fixing.

Once you decide to split to mutiple TV's then you might be able to use the 7777. You could do 6 to 8 TV's with that pre-amp I think!

awesome! I'll try that first as it won't require me to shell out any more $$ and it'll be easy enough to see if it works or not..

Thanks jspENC!

therefore a good idea to keep the cm3671 and add a 91xg for improved uhf performance.

Good catch you guys re: channel 6 after the transition. I'd still personally use the Y10 7-13 and then change later maybe to a wideband vhf such as the winegard 5030 but then I have no problem buying antennas/getting on my roof.:) I probably wouldn't leave the 3671 up there as is but that's just my way of thinking. You might be able to remove the corner reflector and uhf section on the 3671 and re-drill mast clamp holes further back on the antenna at the new center of gravity. This would effectively convert it to vhf-only and decrease weight/wind load. I did this with my Winegard 8200 and it didn't seem to negatively effect the vhf performance at all.




How does the Sitco PA24 compare to the cm7777 in performance. I can not use one here just curious.

http://www.simplicitytool.com/preamplifier.htm

where can users purchase the triax antennas.

The pa24 from my experience is marginally better up and down the range for uhf than the 7777. It is only slightly bested by the Research Comms 9254 which I have up currently.

Triax available at http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/home/homepage.jsp

You have to call them directly to order once you have the item #. They don't like doing international orders online.

You must have some severe multi-path issues for a configuration such as this. Have you tried stacking 2 on 2?

Yep. I'm not sure if it's multipath per se, but the horizontal quad just seems to perform better. It's sort of like a laser beam in reverse.:) The beamwidth is extremely narrow as you might suspect, only maybe 5-10 degrees max. with the sweet spot being probably +/-2 degrees.

thanks again cpcat.. I think I'll try bypassing the preamp first, a few members seem to think that may be the problem.

if that doesn't work you may see pics of a new "double setup" sometime in the near future! :)

When I used a preamp at the home with too much gain, I needed to aim the antenna away from the towers to get a higher signal. As I aimed towards the tower the signal level on the digital tuner went down. this can screw up your bearings and give false signs.

This is typically a sign of signal overload.

The symptoms do match overload, but the distance, terrain, and signal strengths suggests that overload is unlikely. Perhaps different frequencies are arriving from different refractions off the hills.

In most cases a distribution amplifier will overload when used with a 7777 preamp. With a 7777 preamp a distribution amp is completely unnecessary, even when split 4 ways.

Thanks. This is an attic install 53 miles away from the towers... so I'm definitely in fringe territory. So I can still get away with a passive splitter?

Yep. I'm not sure if it's multipath per se, but the horizontal quad just seems to perform better. It's sort of like a laser beam in reverse.:) The beamwidth is extremely narrow as you might suspect, only maybe 5-10 degrees max. with the sweet spot being probably +/-2 degrees.

When you state that it " just seems to perform better", are you comparing the 4 Unix 100A's stack horizontally to the 4 Dat-75's stacked 2 on 2?

When you state that it " just seems to perform better", are you comparing the 4 Unix 100A's stack horizontally to the 4 Dat-75's stacked 2 on 2?

Actually the comparison was between the Dat's horizontal vs. traditional over/under. I never bothered with the Band A's. Once I got the second pair of them, I just put them up horizonatal and never looked back. It's easily the best performance for ch. 14-38 I've had so far.

Maybe I'll try the traditional quad with the A's at some point just for kicks, but for now my experience tells me the horizontal is preferred.

Here's a pic of the horizontal quad of Dat's.

pic

pic

You're going to have to put up another mast,or two...:-)

I'll agree with the horizontal Quad arrangement.I tried square and diamond setups,but the in-line Quad has a much better pattern;less nasty sidelobes and extreme directivity.The -3db beamwidth downpoint has to be less than 2deg on the BandA Quad that I use,at 40"spacing.Now,I need another Quad combiner for the upper UHF Quad and can't locate anything,anywhere.If anyone has one,let me know.Pics....

http://community-2.webtv.net/GregBarker/NewTowerAntennas/

You're going to have to put up another mast,or two...:-)



I was wondering if you'd show up.:)

I'd love another mast (or two) but, alas, 'twon't happen I'm afraid. I'd love to try the 40 inch spacing on the horizontal quad but my installation won't allow it (27 inches max). That might happen at some point but I'd have to get in touch with maxgain (http://www.mgs4u.com/index.html) for some longer rods.

I did experiment with spacing though, and moving the inner two antennas farther apart does seems to help i.e. asymmetrical spacing. This may be due to my limited space though, and potentially might not apply if you already have adequate spacing.

thanks again to everyone who has offered me advice - it looks like signal overload is not the reason I can't get CBS pointing directly at the tower. I bypassed my 7777 altogether and got zip from anywhere - nothing :)

52 miles out over some very hilly terrain makes me think I'm just having to grab a reflected signal for CBS...

I think my next step will be a rotor, as my signal strengths are good (80's) - it's just my direction that needs a 30 degree twist...

The reason I'm worried about 2 separate units (VHF & UHF) is that CBS, ABC, and PBS are all UHF, but as mentioned, the direction is different. I'd hate to put 2 units up and have the same pointing problem :)

I'm beginning to think that channel master antenna isn't very good for UHF. The rotor might be the way to go.

The reason I say the CM isn't very good is I know of someone else using that same one that lives in a flat area, and they have to point theirs to the southeast to get channels that are coming from the north. These channels are in the 50's. They are also using the 7777 and are right on the fringe. They only pick up the channels in the 50's at night too.

Actually the comparison was between the Dat's horizontal vs. traditional over/under. I never bothered with the Band A's. Once I got the second pair of them, I just put them up horizonatal and never looked back. It's easily the best performance for ch. 14-38 I've had so far.

Maybe I'll try the traditional quad with the A's at some point just for kicks, but for now my experience tells me the horizontal is preferred.

Here's a pic of the horizontal quad of Dat's.

I tried a vertical stack with 2 Dat-75's and actually had poorer results than with just one. I wonder if the triple boom causes problems when stacked on top of each other? Thanks for the pictures, i always wondered how 4 would look.

I'm beginning to think that channel master antenna isn't very good for UHF. The rotor might be the way to go.

The reason I say the CM isn't very good is I know of someone else using that same one that lives in a flat area, and they have to point theirs to the southeast to get channels that are coming from the north. These channels are in the 50's. They are also using the 7777 and are right on the fringe. They only pick up the channels in the 50's at night too.

hmm, that's interesting... I wonder if there is a better rated combination unit that would allow me to forego a rotor?

hmm, that's interesting... I wonder if there is a better rated combination unit that would allow me to forego a rotor?

Some may consider the Winegard HD8200P to be a better combo antenna, but I think you would be better off with separates than a combo.

http://www.winegard.com/offair/vhfuhf.htm

Note that, generally speaking, "better" antennas with more gain increase the need to use a rotor.

The only way I would use a combo like the 3671 or HD8200 is if I had a channel in the 2-6 low band range. Otherwise I would use seperate VHF and UHF. A High band such as an antennacraft Y-10 and a antennas direct 91XG for instance, or channel master bow ties. These are much easier to work with than those huge combos.

That makes good sense jsp - some other knowledgeable folks here have already suggested that to me.

My only worry is that since CBS and ABC are both UHF from Albany, and I have to turn the 3671 now to receive one or the other - I'm worried that if I got a separate UHF like the 91XG I'd still be in the same predicament - i.e - having to turn it to receive one or the other...

True, and you can't guarantee that won't happen. The only way to know is to try.

Right. If the TV is in the living room of a small house and others are asleep, you fell guilty about changing channels and moving the antenna...:o

That makes good sense jsp - some other knowledgeable folks here have already suggested that to me.

My only worry is that since CBS and ABC are both UHF from Albany, and I have to turn the 3671 now to receive one or the other - I'm worried that if I got a separate UHF like the 91XG I'd still be in the same predicament - i.e - having to turn it to receive one or the other...

Putting the rotator up will be the most hassle/labor. Once that's done, it won't be much work really to play around with antenna choices. If the 3671 on the rotator doesn't work to your satisfaction, put the xg91 on the rotator and your choice for vhf below it.

A cheaper choice for uhf would be the winegard 9032. It's pretty decent and certainly should outperform the 3671 for uhf.

Yep, that's my next step :)

If the rotor doesn't work out satisfactorily I'll probably go with the 91XG next..

The saga continues.. :)

I was using a Rat Shack VU-90 w/ preamp and my signal strengths on many channels were a little suspect. Ordered a 91XG and put it up this morning. Performed much worse across the entire lot of UHF channels than the combo VU-90 did. I have a rotor so aiming shouldn't be the problem.

Does that seem right? I was expecting at least SOME improvement with the 91XG.

This is what TV Fool looks like:

98669

I'd really like to get WTIC. With my current setup I can sometimes get a marginal signal, usually at night. Seldom enough for a lock. I was hoping the 91XG would make the difference, but I get no WTIC signal at all with it.

Does that seem right? I was expecting at least SOME improvement with the 91XG.

What pre-amp are you using? Looking at the TV Fool plot, you have stations at around 30 miles, with WTIC and other Hartford stations at almost 70 miles. These are all along the same relative angle.

It sounds like you may have an overload problem, though I wouldn't normally expect it on a -85dBm signal.

Have you compared the analog results?

Another suggestion is to re-run the TV Fool plot with the coordinates instead of the address. It should yield a more accurate result. Looking at the TV Fool coverage maps, there are some spots of stronger coverage.

If you are getting even marginal results with a VU-90 (for WTIC), I have to think that the current plot TV Fool gave you is off by a bit.

Live out in the James Island area, just outside of Downtown Charleston, SC. I just got a Samsung 4661 and wanted to try out the antenna to see what i could get. I bought the RCA - Amplified Indoor Off-Air HDTV Antenna. So far not so good. Wondering if I'm doing something wrong or if the antenna is no good? Any help is very much appreciated. Thanks.

Anyone have any comments on the new Winegard 769 series antennas for channels 7-69. They have model numbers like HD 769nP. Antennacraft seems to have a new VHF High/UHF yagi/corner reflector model as well. I wonder why they didn't just optimize the UHF section to maximize channels 14-51 instead an extra 100 MHz to get to 69?

If you need improved uhf performance [over the new hi band/uhf combos] in the fringe still go with separates...91xg and ya1713.

.

I'd agree. Unless you plan to consider stacking them. :)Might be interesting to try.

Live out in the James Island area, just outside of Downtown Charleston, SC. I just got a Samsung 4661 and wanted to try out the antenna to see what i could get. I bought the RCA - Amplified Indoor Off-Air HDTV Antenna. So far not so good. Wondering if I'm doing something wrong or if the antenna is no good? Any help is very much appreciated. Thanks.

Go to TV fool.com and direct this DIY antenna using a compass toward the transmitters. http://uhfhdtvantenna.blogspot.com :D

The announcement of this series of antennas from Winegard was great news since they manufacture a great hd series antenna.
Yes, this is good news. This will simplify making antenna recommendations for outdoor & attic mounted medium to short of deep fringe range antennas for those who need UHF coverage now and upper VHF coverage for 2009 and have all their stations in the same direction (out to what a 30 degree spread in azimuth).

This news is worthy of it's own thread in the hardware reception forum because some people may miss it buried in a loonng running thread.

What pre-amp are you using? Looking at the TV Fool plot, you have stations at around 30 miles, with WTIC and other Hartford stations at almost 70 miles. These are all along the same relative angle.

It sounds like you may have an overload problem, though I wouldn't normally expect it on a -85dBm signal.

Have you compared the analog results?

Another suggestion is to re-run the TV Fool plot with the coordinates instead of the address. It should yield a more accurate result. Looking at the TV Fool coverage maps, there are some spots of stronger coverage.

If you are getting even marginal results with a VU-90 (for WTIC), I have to think that the current plot TV Fool gave you is off by a bit.

The preamp is a Ratshack model that was decently rated 5 or 6 years ago when I got the VU-90. I don't have the model number but I think it's stamped 40db. It's a 3 or 4 inch cylinder. I thought that might be the problem so I tried the 91XG without it. All channels went to "0" strength except for WGGB, which dropped from 80 to 40. With the preamp that's the only station that comes in on the XG. With the VU, I get WGBY,WFSB, and WWLP. WTIC shows a limited signal of around 30, not enough for a lock.

I guess I'm going to leave things alone until the leaves come out and see if I lose anything. Signal strengths on everything watchable except WGGB are in the low 60's. Not much room for error.

The 91xg should have atleast double the gain on uhf (+3db) than the uhf on the VU 90. There is something else going on there. Anyone ??? Aim, connection, setup...?

Perhaps either improper assembly or a defective balun?

91XG doesn't have a balun does it? Maybe it is improperly assembled? The VU-90 is at best 8 to 9 DB of gain on UHF, and the XG 91 is around 13 and 14 Dbs so something is not making contact on the XG whether it is the connection point or the elements.

91XG doesn't have a balun does it?

Yes, it's in the black plastic box where you attach the coax.

Anyone have any comments on the new Winegard 769 series antennas for channels 7-69. They have model numbers like HD 769nP. Antennacraft seems to have a new VHF High/UHF yagi/corner reflector model as well. I wonder why they didn't just optimize the UHF section to maximize channels 14-51 instead an extra 100 MHz to get to 69?
Post Feb2009, some of those upper channels will be broadcasting NEW SERVICES,
some of which we are supposed to buy into with a vengeance.....
Such as Qualcomm's MEDIAFLO on CH55....and wireless broadband service....

ok folks, i have a 52" sony xbr 5, zip code is 06377, sterling ct, what would be the best antenna for all, if at all possible? thx in advance for your help, yes I've read through some pages, lol. Here's a link http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Stations.aspx

Perhaps either improper assembly or a defective balun?

The instructions that come with the antenna suck. I thought it was very possible that I put it together wrong. However there's much better instructions w/ pictures at solidsignal.com My assembly is exactly like it's shown there. It's a PITA to connect the cable with the preamp on it. The balun points towards the rear reflectors and there's barely enough room to fit the preamp in there.

I'm leaning towards something being wrong with the balun. The cable connector on it is not real great. It spins slightly when the final tightening of the cable is made. The only thing that makes me doubt that diagnosis is the fact that ONE station does come in at around 80 strength. If the balun connection was broken or defective it seems like that wouldn't be happening.

please supply tv fool results of your exact addres,

Here's the results for all channels, with coordinate instead of address search:

98987

What are you using for an antenna

Sorry Rick... been out for a bit. I've got a CM4228 and Winegard YA-1713 both in the attic connected to the CM7777. My UHF stations are 53 miles away, and the VHF station (Ch 9) is 63 miles away and the weakest transmitter of the bunch (WALA). I am in ZIP 32564. Reception is pretty solid in good weather but I'm worried that splitting it 3 or 4 ways with a passive splitter will lead to too much signal loss. On the other hand, I was worried about clipping if I used a distribution amp with the 7777 preamp. One guy replied that I'd be fine and I didn't want to use a distribution amp if I already had a 7777... I just wanted to make sure that applied in my fringe reception situation.

ok folks, i have a 52" sony xbr 5, zip code is 06377, sterling ct, what would be the best antenna for all, if at all possible? thx in advance for your help, yes I've read through some pages, lol. Here's a link http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Stations.aspx

bizzump any help is greatly appreciated.:D

Go to tvfool.com and put your zip in and see what they come up with. Looks like you're in a hard area for reception of a lot of stations. Antennaweb shows 3 VHF and 1 UHF so you need a good high gain VHF/UHF combo on a rotor. Winegard and CM have some on their websites. You don't mention any obstructions like trees or hills or whatever between you and the transmitters or whether you want an indoor or outdoor array or an attic antenna. If you want to shoot for other stations than those 4 showing up on Antennaweb then an outdoor array on a rotor might be best. You need line of site (LOS) for best reception; trees and hills can be murder for reception. What indoor one have you tried? Sometimes sticking one in the attic can work. The specific antenna is hard to say until your particular location factors are given. your distance from the transmitters is not too bad.

the chart suggests reception challenges.

Yep, very fringe on many of the channels. If I got next to nothing with the VU-90 I'd understand it. But receiving five with it vs. one with the supposedly superior XG91 has me scratching my head. The loss of WWLP-DT even makes some sense as it's really out of the recommended freq. range of the XG (high VHF 11).

I guess I'll take apart the balun and see what it looks like in there. :confused:

I'm at a loss on the VU 90 being superior too. I had one, and it stunk on UHF, that's why I can't understand the XG not being much better. The VHF was OK, but nothing to brag about either.

Yep, very fringe on many of the channels. If I got next to nothing with the VU-90 I'd understand it. But receiving five with it vs. one with the supposedly superior XG91 has me scratching my head. The loss of WWLP-DT even makes some sense as it's really out of the recommended freq. range of the XG (high VHF 11).

I guess I'll take apart the balun and see what it looks like in there. :confused:

I had problems with the 91XG when I had all 3 booms assembled, but in my case, it was due to overload. My results were better with just one boom than all 3, but 2 seemed to be the best compromise for the moment. If it is convenient, I would be curious to know if you see a similar result. My 91XG is also pointing at WTIC, incidentally, but from SE CT.

While WGGB is stronger on the more exact TV Fool plot, it still doesn't seem strong enough to cause overload. It is about 15dBm weaker than my overload stations in SE CT.

When I first saw the 91XG box, I was surprised by how small it was. As I discovered while assembling, a smaller box = more work. I had to take a few breaks to assemble it as my hands were so worn out. It makes the CM4228 seem so much easier, despite its weight.

What do you see on the analog UHF stations with the 91XG. If you could post a few pictures of them with the VU-90 and the 91XG, it may help to figure out what is wrong. Is there any sign of analog WVIT 30?

This may be a simple question, but I really need a decent little indoor antenna to receive digital channels. I have three tuners: a US Digital box, the tuner built into my Panny plasma, and a USB ATSC tuner. I will most likely only be feeding one of these, but I *may* split to two. Anyway, I live in metro Jackson, MS, zip code 39211, and here is what AntennaWeb has to say:

* yellow - uhf WJTV-DT 12.1 CBS JACKSON MS 239° 17.4 52
* yellow - uhf WMPN-DT 20.1 PBS JACKSON MS 231° 19.4 20
* yellow - uhf WAPT-DT 16.1 ABC JACKSON MS 234° 10.6 21
* red - uhf WDBD-DT 35.1 FOX Jackson MS 232° 17.4 41
* red - vhf WLBT-DT 3.1 NBC JACKSON MS 232° 17.4 9

Nothing over 19.4 miles. However, the tiny old RCA antenna I have only seems to pick up FOX and CBS, and I get poor signal quality. I live in a condo complex (single story only) so it needs to be an indoor antenna. If this is the wrong place or perhaps answered somewhere else, I apologize. Thanks in advance for any advice.

I live in the boon docks, about 50-60 miles from the towers I want, however, they lie in all directions - yes, 60 miles in all directions. I have an antenna on the roof (20 foot peak with a 10 foot mast-stand combination), with a new rotator (CM9521a). I need a good one size fits all directional antenna that can receive both UHF and VHF all the way down to channel 3, since there is a pretty even mix of both in the area. The digital signals don't seem to be only broadcasting in UHF. I don't want to overload my mast with two antennas, because we occasionally get some pretty high winds.

Can anyone give me a recommendation on the best deep fringe UHF/VHF antenna? I realize that a combination of something like the VIP-306 (or another yagi) and a CM4228 would produce the the best signal (when combined with a Titan 7777), but I don't think it would be wise to add onto the mast (since most of that 10 feet is stand, only about 3 feet is mast) and hike up a CM4228 on a rotator (I hear the wind resistance to that thing is pretty high). I think the wind would rip down the stand and a portion of my roof in the first strong storm.

This may be a simple question, but I really need a decent little indoor antenna to receive digital channels. I have three tuners: a US Digital box, the tuner built into my Panny plasma, and a USB ATSC tuner. I will most likely only be feeding one of these, but I *may* split to two. Anyway, I live in metro Jackson, MS, zip code 39211, and here is what AntennaWeb has to say:

* yellow - uhf WJTV-DT 12.1 CBS JACKSON MS 239° 17.4 52
* yellow - uhf WMPN-DT 20.1 PBS JACKSON MS 231° 19.4 20
* yellow - uhf WAPT-DT 16.1 ABC JACKSON MS 234° 10.6 21
* red - uhf WDBD-DT 35.1 FOX Jackson MS 232° 17.4 41
* red - vhf WLBT-DT 3.1 NBC JACKSON MS 232° 17.4 9

Nothing over 19.4 miles. However, the tiny old RCA antenna I have only seems to pick up FOX and CBS, and I get poor signal quality. I live in a condo complex (single story only) so it needs to be an indoor antenna. If this is the wrong place or perhaps answered somewhere else, I apologize. Thanks in advance for any advice.
All of your stations are in the same direction, so a directional antenna is fine. Is the "tiny old RCA antenna" a UHF loop (~8" in diameter) and rabbit ears for VHF tabletop antenna? WLBT-DT NBC 3 is on upper VHF 9. WJTV-DT CBS 12 will be moving it's digital channel from UHF 52 to VHF 12 by Feb. 17, 2009. So you need an indoor antenna to get UHF and upper VHF.

First, have you tried different locations and aim for the RCA antenna? Raised it higher up in the room, placed it in a window facing SW in the direction of the stations? Tweaked the aim of the rabbit ears and shortened them to ~ 32" long to try to get WLBT-DT NBC? If it has a UHF loop, aimed the open face of the loop towards the stations?

If that does not work, a Silver Sensor UHF antenna combined with rabbit ears for VHF is a good next step. Hate to recommend Terks, but they are available at local stores. The Terk HDTVi is an unamplified version, but is not widely carried by the chain stores. The Terk HDTVa has a built-in amp and is rather overpriced at $50, but can be found at many local stores. Another option is a 2 Bay bowtie such as the Channel Master 4220 mounted on a mast facing a window or outside on a deck if you have one.

What do you see on the analog UHF stations with the 91XG. If you could post a few pictures of them with the VU-90 and the 91XG, it may help to figure out what is wrong. Is there any sign of analog WVIT 30?

Thanks for your help. The antenna is up on my garage roof and we got 8" of snow yesterday. It's going to be a week or two before I'll be climbing up there to experiment again. ;)