How can I boost my signal strength?

Jmvaughn,

I'm assuming you mean Zenith Silver Sensor? You may need to go outdoors with something like a 4221 or 4228 even depending on your location. Where are you in central Missouri and what stations are you trying to receive?

I appreciate everyone's input on my suggestion. The setup I have works well for me, but I like the other input about the Channel Master 7777. I may actually switch to that one if I can find it at a reasonable price

This is the preaamp that I have http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=2625064&cat=4536&type=19&dept=3944&path=0%3A3944%3A3964%3A163399%3A4536


Tom

Originally posted by firemantom26
This is the preaamp that I have http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=2625064&cat=4536&type=19&dept=3944&path=0%3A3944%3A3964%3A163399%3A4536
That's not a preamp; a preamp will have an amplifier module you place right at the antenna and a power injector module you can place elsewhere.

It's important to amplify the signal as early as possible in order to be amplifying as little additional noise and to start with the maximum signal you've got.

What you have is a distribution amplifier basically doing the same thing, but intended just to amplify to account for further losses through distribution/splitting in your wiring.

If your antenna is in the attic, and you place it very close to the point the signal comes from the antenna, it'll generally work the same, though no information seems to be provided about the specs of the unit, so we don't know it's noise rating or how much total signal it's capable of amplifying before it might be clipping.

CPCAT,

Do you get any digitals from Lexington KY. channel 4 ,7 etc? Looks like they may make it to you by coverage maps. If you can get them I may raise my VHF and see if I can. They are about 100 miles from me over those KY mountains. Do you know if they are full power or not?

Do you get any digitals from Lexington KY. channel 4 ,7 etc?

WDKY 4 (FOX) is still working on their new tower and not broadcasting yet.
WLJC 7 is easy from Beatyville, but WMAK would knock it out for you.
No go for WKYT 13 even though they're at full power, and believe me I've tried (about 10-15 miles further north than 4 will be).
When 4 is up and running you might try it but it'd be a "long shot"(pun intended).

Any advise for a channel 5 at 87 miles. I can pull in their analog 33 with an xg91 mounted on a 30 ft. mast. I'm looking at the Antennacraft cs1100. I could move the mast to the roof or buy a 50 ft mast to get some extra height. I don't want to buy an antenna cut for ch 5 since there will be an ABC going live on ch 9 in the next month or two and it is a lot closer.

Thanks, Clay

Is it possible to hook two antennas together to feed a single tuner?

I can get every single channel I want except FOX. I can only get FOX with a very specific antenna placement that doens't work for any of the other channels. Theoretically all my networks come from the same compas direction of 133 degrees, so merely rotating the antenna isn't an option.

Yes. You need a Jointenna coupler. The Jointenna allows you to add an antenna specifically cut/aimed for a single channel, while "notching out" that channel from your main antenna. For instance, if Fox were on 25, one input would allow 2-24 and 26-69 to pass through, while the other input would allow only 25.

Originally posted by PhilJSmith67
Yes. You need a Jointenna coupler. The Jointenna allows you to add an antenna specifically cut/aimed for a single channel, while "notching out" that channel from your main antenna. For instance, if Fox were on 25, one input would allow 2-24 and 26-69 to pass through, while the other input would allow only 25.
It's a little more simple if the split of antennas is across VHF/UHF; same concept though, just easier to get such a splitter/combiner, or even preamps with separate VHF and UHF and built-in combiners.

FOX is on channel 49 so the Jointenna is exactly what I need. Thanks.

I think a clarification of terms would be helpful:

Splitter/Combiner/Joiner=A primarily parallel connection at a specified frequency or range of frequencies. Rejection of frequencies is usually provided above and below the specified range. Resulting signal on parallel legs is identical but attenuated by 1/2 or 3db + thru loss. Bidirectional, typically termed a *splitter* when used to create 2 signals from one. Termed a *combiner* or *joiner* when used to create one signal from 2.
Example: 2 GHz splitter/joiner

Diplexer/Filter/Separator=A primarily in-series connection also at a specified frequency or range of frequencies but in addition providing in-band rejection/filtering. Resulting signal is original minus rejected signal on each leg and any attenuation is due primarily to thru loss. Examples: UHF/VHF diplexer, Satellite/TV diplexer, Channelmaster Jointenna. Also bidirectional.

Since both have out of band rejection and DC is 0 hz by definition neither will pass DC current unless specifically designed to do otherwise on one leg or both.

I don't want to buy an antenna cut for ch 5 since there will be an ABC going live on ch 9 in the next month or two and

Unless you have other low band channels you want, I'd still say get a cut channel 5 and combine it with an Antennacraft Y10 7-13 later (or even a cut ch. 9 if you don't have other high band channels). This will provide better performance and less overall windload than a monster wideband VHF. You could get them both for about the price of the CS1100.
See http://www.starkelectronic.com/delhi.htm for 5 element and 10 element models. Even the 5 element should outperform the CS1100.

I know the cut channel antenna will perform much better. But I wanted to get it installed before the Sugar Bowl on Jan 3rd. I can get the CS1100 locally. I'm afraid that I wouldn't get the Jerrold delivered in time because of the holidays. I may call Stark Electronic in the morning and see if they can get me one by then. Or I may just go ahead and order the cut channel 9 and watch the game on sd cable. But sd looks really bad on a 100 in front projection:(

If I do try the CS1100 I'll be sure and post my results. Thanks for the help.

Guys,

I will try to explain the behavior of the HDTV antenna on my house, and some of my theories, and see if you guys can give me some insight:

I bought an RCA multidirectional HDTV antenna ( RCA ANT711 ... click for more info (http://www.rca.com/product/viewdetail/0,2588,PI700621-CI210,00.html?) ) and hooked it up to my Sony 55XS955. It is an amplified antenna, and supposed to be multidirectional. My house receives most of the channels from Miami from the south-southeast, while receiving most of the West Palm channels via north (see below).

I first put the antenna in the roof of the patio in the back of the house, on the first floor( Pos1). I received most of the channels in both Miami and West palm, but a few of the ones in miami were coming in and out. There is equivalent houses around me, and thus, I figured that the signal was being blocked by the houses and trees that surround the south side of the house. Also, no part of the antenna was sticking out from the side (in order to get some signal from the north)

Next, I tried to move the antenna to Pos2, which sticks out a little, and although I got a little better Miami reception, I lost some of the West Palm channels from the north!! :confused: I thought it would have been better, since the house is no longer blocking the north view, but it actually got worst!!

Next, I took the antenna to the roof (pos3), and I was able to get most of the Miami channels in good condition, but I completely lost all the west Palm ones!!! :confused: Again, this time the houses in the back and the trees and everything shouldn't have been an issue, since it was up high, but the north side signals actually were lost!!!! I don't get it. My next move is to try to mount it on a high pole and see if that helps, but I have a feeling it may not.

My only theory for Pos3 to be worst, is that somehow I was actuall getting a signal from the north that actually bounced of the house behind me, thus it would bounce from the south side directly into my antenna....does that seem plausable?:(

ANy help and ideas would be appreciated.

here is a pic of the house and the antenna positions (this face of the house faces the south, if you want to picture it)

cpcat is right about going with antennas cut for each channel. If your antennas are in the attic, you could make your own cut-to-length folded dipoles for channels 5 and 9.

If 5 and 9 are coming from the same direction, you could position them with the ch5 antenna behind the ch9, such that the ch5 antenna would act as a "reflector" for the shorter ch9, and the 9 antenna would act as a "director" for the 5. You wouldn't need a Jointenna to combine them, since one is VHF-Low and the other is VHF-High.

If your antennas are outside, I still agree with cpcat on getting antennas cut for each channel. This will not only give you a strong signal for 5 and 9, but it has the added benefit of rejecting FM, for which the first harmonic of a whole chunk of FM stations (93 to 96 MHz) falls all over channel 9 (186 to 192 MHz). A harmonic of an FM station might hardly show on top of an analog TV station, but it will wreak havoc on a DTV signal.

Hey guys Im real late on this thread, but lots of good info on here. I like the fabricators page on the 1st page that was pretty near. I do have a question- right now my antenna stack I put up many years ago, it has 3 seperate antennas. I have an winegard FM at the top, a older large dish style UHF and then a CM VHF only below that. Its approx 15 feet above the roof and I am using a rotator (horizontal only). Im running the FM directly into my FM tuner. The other 2 are combined with a radioshack UHF/VHF combiner.
I heard that there really isnt a need to split the 3 up, since I could have just used a single antenna since they're all facing the same direction and might have gotten better reception by using that at the very top. Also, I hear that since they're relatively close to each other, they may be cancelling each other out.

Another problem is due to my location, the majority of the stations sits behind a hill. At a friends house down the street they can receive some VHF washington DC stations with rabbit ears which I have trouble with using the outdoor rig... grrr.

I'm also considering trying out one of those double horizontal Yagi setups with the vertical rotator as well, just to see what I am able to reel in. Arent Yagi's usually UHF?

I'm open to input. Ill try to take pics of the rig sometime.

here is a pic of the house and the antenna positions (this face of the house faces the south, if you want to picture it)

I appreciate the efforts you're undertaking to make it work but I'm afraid the bottom line is you'll be continually frustrated trying to make an omnidirectional antenna work for you consistently no matter what the position. The best option would be something like a CM 4221 on a rotor or alternatively two 4221's each pointed to their respective directions on separate downleads with an A/B switch. The 4221 should still get you your high band vhf.

If the West Palm stations and the Miami ones are close to 180 deg. apart from your location it may be worth it to try a single 4221 with the screen removed, but optimal reception will still be in front of the antenna.

Most likely the best position is at the peak of the roof (I'd use a wall mount with just enough clearance to clear the eave, or better yet bring it on down for a ground mount to make it even sturdier), but you might still try a couple of different locations before you do the permanent mount.

I am in the sticks, so I have no HD cable options. It looks like OTA will be my only possibility. What I need to know from you guys is, is it even a possibility, as I am pretty far away from Nashville.

I live in a flat area with no tall buildings around, some tall residential trees, in a tall two story house with a large, tall open attic.

Here are my specs from AntennaWeb:

violet - uhf WZDX 54 FOX HUNTSVILLE AL 192° 59.8 54
violet - uhf WZTV 17 FOX NASHVILLE TN 325° 47.7 17
violet - uhf WUXP 30 UPN NASHVILLE TN 335° 52.8 30
violet - vhf WSMV 4 NBC NASHVILLE TN 325° 47.7 4
violet - uhf WPGD 50 TBN HENDERSONVILLE TN 356° 61.1 50
violet - vhf WTVF 5 CBS NASHVILLE TN 335° 52.8 5
violet - vhf WNPT 8 PBS NASHVILLE TN 322° 41.4 8
violet - uhf WNPX 28 PAX COOKEVILLE TN 60° 69.9 28
violet - uhf WHTN 39 CTN MURFREESBORO TN 355° 34.3 39
violet - uhf WNAB 58 WB NASHVILLE TN 335° 52.8 58
violet - vhf WKRN 2 ABC NASHVILLE TN 322° 41.4 2
violet - uhf WJFB 66 IND LEBANON TN 0° 39.0 66
violet - uhf WAAY 31 ABC HUNTSVILLE AL 192° 59.7 31
violet - uhf WHIQ 25 PBS HUNTSVILLE AL 192° 59.7 25
violet - uhf WHNT 19 CBS HUNTSVILLE AL 192° 59.7 19
violet - uhf WAFF 48 NBC HUNTSVILLE AL 192° 61.6 48

Any hope for this poor boy who craves HD for his JVC HX1 projector?

James

Originally posted by Suprfly2k
I live in a flat area with no tall buildings around, some tall residential trees, in a tall two story house with a large, tall open attic.

Any hope for this poor boy who craves HD for his JVC HX1 projector?


You probably don't know this, but it would be good to know what the topography is between you and the broadcast towers. I know there are some hills in that area of the country (called mountains, IIRC) and if you're physically blocked by these, then it probably makes no difference what antenna you'd put up, you'd be out of luck. If, on the other hand, you shoot between peaks, or have no major ones in the way, you've got a decent chance at getting any full-powered digitals on your list.

60 miles is the theoretical limit for UHF reception, over "normal" conditions. I'm in a worse-than-average location and have some success (not perfect) at 78 miles. You can read a full workup of my life here:
http://www.geocities.com/figbert/antennasdirect91xg.html

If you're willing to invest, and you're not going through mountains, you should be able to have a fair amount of success with a top-of-the-line setup. Consider the 91XG; it's a top performer and reasonably priced. Get a 28db UHF preamplifier, preferably either a Winegard or Channel Master as these have low noise levels. Get the whole thing as high as you can. Forget the attic - it costs you 50% (or more) of your signal strength just to get through the roof. You'll have to be outside.

Originally posted by ericdwong
I'm also considering trying out one of those double horizontal Yagi setups with the vertical rotator as well, just to see what I am able to reel in. Arent Yagi's usually UHF?

Yes. And all the Washington D.C. digitals are UHF.

I heard that there really isnt a need to split the 3 up, since I could have just used a single antenna since they're all facing the same direction and might have gotten better reception by using that at the very top. Also, I hear that since they're relatively close to each other, they may be cancelling each other out

Usually you can get better performance overall by separating them, assuming adequate spacing. 60 inches is a good start, but technically it varies with wavelength so you can get away with narrower for uhf but may need more for vhf. I can tell you that in my setup 60 inches does fine for down to channel 12.

UHF may benefit the most from height and typically there are more uhf stations so you might consider putting the dish on the rotor at the top and then fixing the other two beneath. Adequate spacing to rotate all 3 or even 2 will require a guyed rotator bearing or a heavy duty ham rotor else the lever arm will be too much for the usual domestic rotator such as the CM 9521.


If you have to rotate for both vhf and uhf and you don't want to get too technical, then it may be best to go with a single combo antenna, but including FM in the mix can be problematic, especially if you're using a preamp.

Pictures would be great as well as your general location.

Originally posted by cpcat
I appreciate the efforts you're undertaking to make it work but I'm afraid the bottom line is you'll be continually frustrated trying to make an omnidirectional antenna work for you consistently no matter what the position. The best option would be something like a CM 4221 on a rotor or alternatively two 4221's each pointed to their respective directions on separate downleads with an A/B switch. The 4221 should still get you your high band vhf.

If the West Palm stations and the Miami ones are close to 180 deg. apart from your location it may be worth it to try a single 4221 with the screen removed, but optimal reception will still be in front of the antenna.

Most likely the best position is at the peak of the roof (I'd use a wall mount with just enough clearance to clear the eave, or better yet bring it on down for a ground mount to make it even sturdier), but you might still try a couple of different locations before you do the permanent mount.

thanks for the info. Pardon my ignorance, but the CM 4221 is a directional antenna, correct? without having to turn to rotating motors and the like, what is the best alternative to what I have now?

alternatively two 4221's each pointed to their respective directions on separate downleads with an A/B switch. The 4221 should still get you your high band vhf. If the West Palm stations and the Miami ones are close to 180 deg. apart from your location it may be worth it to try a single 4221 with the screen removed, but optimal reception will still be in front of the antenna.

ssabripo,
See above.
Your best alternative *is* a directional antenna. You could also consider a Antennasdirect DB4 and Winegard makes a 4-bay uhf as well.

Multipath is the bane of digital reception and omnidirectional antennas are terrible at rejecting multipath. No way around it. The new 5th generation receivers should help, but that's somewhat of an unknown right now and release dates are at least several mos. away.

Here are my specs from AntennaWeb:
violet - uhf WZDX 54 FOX HUNTSVILLE AL 192° 59.8 54
violet - uhf WZTV 17 FOX NASHVILLE TN 325° 47.7 17
violet - uhf WUXP 30 UPN NASHVILLE TN 335° 52.8 30
violet - vhf WSMV 4 NBC NASHVILLE TN 325° 47.7 4
violet - uhf WPGD 50 TBN HENDERSONVILLE TN 356° 61.1 50
violet - vhf WTVF 5 CBS NASHVILLE TN 335° 52.8 5
violet - vhf WNPT 8 PBS NASHVILLE TN 322° 41.4 8
violet - uhf WNPX 28 PAX COOKEVILLE TN 60° 69.9 28
violet - uhf WHTN 39 CTN MURFREESBORO TN 355° 34.3 39
violet - uhf WNAB 58 WB NASHVILLE TN 335° 52.8 58
violet - vhf WKRN 2 ABC NASHVILLE TN 322° 41.4 2
violet - uhf WJFB 66 IND LEBANON TN 0° 39.0 66
violet - uhf WAAY 31 ABC HUNTSVILLE AL 192° 59.7 31
violet - uhf WHIQ 25 PBS HUNTSVILLE AL 192° 59.7 25
violet - uhf WHNT 19 CBS HUNTSVILLE AL 192° 59.7 19
violet - uhf WAFF 48 NBC HUNTSVILLE AL 192° 61.6 48



I assume you know those are all analog. Check http://www.tvradioworld.com for access to all the station info you need so you'll know the *actual* DTV channel you're trying to receive (not the virtual one, which typically corresponds to the old analog channel). You can also go to http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp and punch in your coordinates in decimal form for bearings to all the stations. You should have a good shot at a bunch of them. I echo sregener's advice and would add that you'll need a rotator as well.

For high band (7-13) vhf (Nashville's NBC is 10) you might consider adding a separate vhf antenna such as an Antennacraft Y10 7-13 and mount it below the uhf. Be sure your preamp has separate vhf/uhf 75 ohm inputs. The CM 7777 is a good choice.

Thanks guys. I'll look into this and will get back to you when I have more questions.

Superfly

50 miles is not that far with a good antenna system. If you are getting good analog reception now then you probably will get good digital. I use the 91xg and get excellent digital reception from 70+ miles with no amp signal level in the 80 and 90's. A few of those stations are at low power.

Took a quick look at Nashville digitals and it looks like you have 7 digitals. The only VHF digital is 10. Here's a link to channels 10 coverage area.
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT616584.html

All the others are UHF 15, 21, 27,46, and 56. Here's the link to check the other stations. Punch in their call sign then look for red digital then click on alternate map link. Some stations will have 2 Digitals one which is low power the other will be full power July 1 2005.
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/audio/tvq.html

If you are in the coverage area you should have little trouble getting them. If you are outside or on the fringe end of the coverage area then it's still not impossible but much harder. I'm out of the coverage area on 6 of mine but still get very good reception.

Looks like you may be in an excellent area to get digital from more then one market if you use a rotor. You may be close enough to Huntsvillle AL to get them also if you are south of nashville especially.

You'll need a good UHF 91xg Antannas Direct, Channel Master 4228 etc. and if you want DT 10 get a cut channel 10. I assume you are only after the digitals. If you want both analog and digital then you'll have to go with a full VHF band antenna for you have analog in both high and low band.
Need links or help feel free to email me jimc705@yahoo.com

FYI from Morristown TN I get digitals from Norton and Grundy Va. Bristol , Johnson City, Kingsport, Greenville, and Knoxville TN and Asheville NC.

Live between 50 to 100 miles from my channel tranmitters. Beleive it or not I could receive all of my major networks NBC,CBS and ABC but had a hard time with fox(having alot of break ups except late at night) I had a radioshck Vr90?? UHF/VHF antenna (36 element with 80in boom)with no pre-amp. So I decided to purchase a winegard PR9032 UHF antenna and a channel master 7777 pre-amp and also a channel master antenna rotor. So I spent most of the day installing the above items and when finished I was excited because I knew the FOX channel would rock solid now but to my surprise I could not even get a signal lock. I moved the antenna back and forth in small increments but no luck. So I then went to radioshack and picked up a attenuator thinking maybe I was creating an signal overload but still no luck. Did I do something wrong or did I purchase the wrong items????? P.S I have a dish 811 receiver with a 20ft antenna mask. I know all of my channels are on the UHF band.

Originally posted by pti711
I know all of my channels are on the UHF band.

I'm gonna try not to get into my "tell us where you are, already!" rant, but... ;)

Plug your address into www.antennaweb.org and tell us what you get, particularly for the Fox station - heck, for all of 'em. It's possible the station is A) farther away or otherwise oriented away from the other sticks or B) the station is on a lower power level, using an "STA" (Special Temporary Authority) at a fraction of what it'll be when it goes full power.

You don't have to post your home address or even city...just tell us what TV market (major metro area) you're in/trying to get channels from.

Hello all. I have now read this entire thread and have learned a great deal. However, I have a couple questions.

First the background info. I am in Biloxi, MS (zip=39531) and exactly half way between the New Orleans and Mobile transmitters. Both antennaweb (http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx) and 2150.com (http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp) indicate that the majority of the towers are between 61 and 71 miles away. I am really interested in the New Orleans market. Fortunately, all the towers are right at 255 degrees.

Locally I recieve ABC, FOX, PBS OTA that I have tested with Silver Sensor that I am "borrowing" from Sears. These towers vary from 9 to 25 miles away and from 325-20 degree azimuth. I purchased a MyHD 120 card that I will install into my HTPC tomorrow. This card has 2 rg-6 ANT inputs.

Geographically, the terrain is flat and I think most of the distance between my home and the towers is just off the coast line. No huge barriers just other 1 story homes.

Specifically, chimney is of 2x4, plywood and polystyrene construction and ~ 25' AGL. It has surface that faces almost exactly 260 degrees. HOWEVER, the internal flue and cap are sheet metal which would be "behind" the antenna if mounted flat onto the western face of the chimney. This is a pleasing solution asthetically and functinally (ie no guy wires and minimal wind load with multiple direct points of fixation)

This is my plan: attic mounted SS/DB2 with out amp to one input of the MyHD 120 card. Next, a DB4 or DB8 mounted to the western face of the chimney with a CM7777 pre-amp to the other ANT input.

How bad would the rear metal structures interfere with such distant signals?

I could put a small mast to lift it just above the chimney cap. The 91XG is also a consideration as I could place a mast on the eastern side (back of the house) and point it westward over the chimney.

Any suggestions or comments welcome. Happy Holidays - Scott

Here is my info from antennaweb. I have deleted the Mobile/Pensacola data. Note only the local channels are listed as DT. I an only intersted in HD broadcasts as I already have digital cable.

If interested my coordinates are:
Lat: 30.403118
Long: -088.985005
http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp

yellow - uhf WLOX-DT 13.1 ABC BILOXI MS 341° 23.3 39
green - uhf W35BM 35 TBN BILOXI MS 251° 2.3 35
lt green - vhf WLOX 13 ABC BILOXI MS 341° 23.4 13
lt green - uhf WMAH 19 PBS BILOXI MS 2° 24.2 19
lt green - uhf WXXV 25 FOX GULFPORT MS 346° 24.4 25
red - uhf WXXV-DT 25.1 FOX GULFPORT MS 306° 10.6 48
red - uhf WMAH-DT 16.1 PBS BILOXI MS 2° 24.3 16
violet - vhf WYES 12 PBS NEW ORLEANS LA 242° 66.5 12
violet - vhf WVUE 8 FOX NEW ORLEANS LA 242° 66.5 8
violet - vhf WWL 4 CBS NEW ORLEANS LA 242° 72.9 4
violet - uhf WNOL 38 WB NEW ORLEANS LA 243° 65.3 38
violet - uhf WUPL 54 UPN SLIDELL LA 262° 56.7 54
violet - uhf WGNO 26 ABC NEW ORLEANS LA 244° 65.7 26
violet - uhf WLAE 32 PBS NEW ORLEANS LA 244° 65.8 32
violet - vhf WDSU 6 NBC NEW ORLEANS LA 242° 67.2 6
violet - uhf W51CU 51 TBN PASCAGOULA MS 82° 24.7 51

Thanks - Scott

Originally posted by nebari
Here is my info from antennaweb. I have deleted the Mobile/Pensacola data. Note only the local channels are listed as DT. I an only intersted in HD broadcasts as I already have digital cable.

If interested my coordinates are:
Lat: 30.403118
Long: -088.985005
http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp

yellow - uhf WLOX-DT 13.1 ABC BILOXI MS 341° 23.3 39
green - uhf W35BM 35 TBN BILOXI MS 251° 2.3 35
lt green - vhf WLOX 13 ABC BILOXI MS 341° 23.4 13
lt green - uhf WMAH 19 PBS BILOXI MS 2° 24.2 19
lt green - uhf WXXV 25 FOX GULFPORT MS 346° 24.4 25
red - uhf WXXV-DT 25.1 FOX GULFPORT MS 306° 10.6 48
red - uhf WMAH-DT 16.1 PBS BILOXI MS 2° 24.3 16
violet - vhf WYES 12 PBS NEW ORLEANS LA 242° 66.5 12
violet - vhf WVUE 8 FOX NEW ORLEANS LA 242° 66.5 8
violet - vhf WWL 4 CBS NEW ORLEANS LA 242° 72.9 4
violet - uhf WNOL 38 WB NEW ORLEANS LA 243° 65.3 38
violet - uhf WUPL 54 UPN SLIDELL LA 262° 56.7 54
violet - uhf WGNO 26 ABC NEW ORLEANS LA 244° 65.7 26
violet - uhf WLAE 32 PBS NEW ORLEANS LA 244° 65.8 32
violet - vhf WDSU 6 NBC NEW ORLEANS LA 242° 67.2 6
violet - uhf W51CU 51 TBN PASCAGOULA MS 82° 24.7 51

Thanks - Scott

Are you giving up on Mobile, then? It would seem to make more sense to me to mount the antenna where you could rotate it freely to take advantage of your proximity to two different markets. A chimney mount tends to be more difficult than doing a ground mount on the side of the house, as well. Finally, the interaction b/w the antenna and the metal chimney liner would be unpredictable and if it is a problem you've done alot of work for no gain. If you raise it above the chimney, the wind load (esp. with an 8-bay) would be risky for a chimney mount. You might consider consulting with a professional installer.

If it were me, I'd go with a ground mount and keep your options open for other markets.
You'll need to mount where the chimney doesnt' block LOS to New Orleans.
You could also consider taking the small antenna up on the roof on a calm day and checking to see where the best signal locations are.

Since it seems posting for help is pretty common, I've added a vBulletin-formatted version of the report to the FCC lookup tool at http://www.2150.com/broadcast/. Here's the output for the lat/long given a few posts back:


View full report (http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp?latitude=30%2E403118&longitude=%2D88%2E985005&magnetic_north=%2D0%2E2166&range=90&sort=direction&show_expired=False&show_construction=False&show_analog=False&show_low_power=False&action=Show+Stations)


Digital Television Stations (including Special Temporary Authority)
STATION CHANNEL DIRECTION DISTANCE         ERP      HAAT CIT Y/LICENSEE
WMAH-DT  UHF 16    5.7°   24.43mi     150.00kW   1,565ft (BILOX I, MS) MISSISSIPPI AUTHORITY FOR EDUCATIONAL TELEVISION
WMPV-DT  UHF 20   71.2°   53.19mi       0.60kW     220ft (MOBIL E, AL) TRINITY BROADCASTING NETWORK
WKRG-DT  UHF 27   74.3°   71.49mi      55.00kW     834ft (MOBIL E, AL) MEDIA GENERAL BROADCASTING OF SOUTH CAROLINA HOLDINGS, INC.
WALA-DT  VHF  9   74.3°   73.31mi      16.50kW   1,250ft (MOBIL E, AL) EMMIS TELEVISION LICENSE, LLC
WEIQ-DT  UHF 41   74.7°   67.38mi     199.00kW     607ft (MOBIL E, AL) ALABAMA EDUCATIONAL TELEVISION COMMISSION
WHBR-DT  UHF 34   78.9°   81.11mi     108.00kW   1,362ft (PENSACO LA, FL) CHRISTIAN TELEVISION OF PENSACOLA/MOBILE, INC.
WEAR-DT  UHF 17   79.6°   81.05mi       8.30kW     337ft (PENSACO LA, FL) WEAR LICENSEE, LLC
WSRE-DT  UHF 31   79.9°   83.25mi     287.00kW   1,801ft (PENSACO LA, FL) DST .BD. OF TRUSTEES PENSACOLA JR. COLLEGE
WPMI-DT  UHF 47   79.9°   83.25mi   1,000.00kW   1,831ft (MOBIL E, AL) CLEAR CHANNEL BROADCASTING LICENSES, INC.
WJTC-DT  UHF 45   81.3°   86.17mi   1,000.00kW   1,499ft (PENSACO LA, FL) CLEAR CHANNEL BROADCASTING LICENSES, INC.
NEW      UHF 36  221.0°   64.81mi     200.00kW     279ft (SP RINGFIELD, IL) ESP TECHNOLOGY COMMUNITY BROADCASTERS
WWL-DT   UHF 36  241.9°   71.75mi     319.00kW   1,020ft (NEW ORLEANS, LA) WWL-TV, INC.
WWL-DT   UHF 36  241.9°   71.75mi     957.80kW   1,020ft (NEW ORLEANS, LA) WWL-TV, INC.
WYES-DT  VHF 11  242.1°   65.44mi      70.80kW   1,004ft (NEW ORLEANS, LA) GREATER NEW ORLEANS ED TV FOUNDATION
WVUE-DT  UHF 29  242.1°   65.44mi      33.70kW     902ft (NEW ORLEANS, LA) EMMIS TELEVISION LICENSE, LLC
WDSU-DT  UHF 43  242.1°   66.01mi     445.00kW     755ft (NEW ORLEANS, LA) NEW ORLEANS HEARST-ARGYLE TELEVISION, INC.
WHNO-DT  UHF 21  242.2°   70.52mi      17.00kW     833ft (NEW ORLEANS, LA) LESEA BROADCASTING CORPORATION
WUPL-DT  UHF 24  242.2°   70.52mi   1,000.00kW     892ft (SLIDELL , LA) UPN TELEVISION STATIONS INC.
WPXL-DT  UHF 50  242.2°   70.52mi   1,000.00kW     892ft (NEW ORLEANS, LA) FLINN BROADCASTING CORPORATION
WGNO-DT  UHF 15  243.7°   64.51mi     500.00kW     433ft (NEW ORLEANS, LA) TRIBUNE TELEVISION NEW ORLEANS, INC.
WGNO-DT  UHF 15  243.7°   64.51mi     800.00kW     433ft (NEW ORLEANS, LA) TRIBUNE TELEVISION NEW ORLEANS, INC.
WNOL-DT  UHF 40  243.7°   64.51mi     500.00kW     433ft (NEW ORLEANS, LA) TRIBUNE TELEVISION NEW ORLEANS, INC.
WUPL-DT  UHF 24  262.0°   55.44mi       3.00kW     493ft (SLIDELL , LA) UPN TELEVISION STATIONS INC.
WXXV-DT  UHF 48  311.4°    9.61mi      13.00kW     143ft (GULFPOR T, MS) MORRIS NETWORK OF MISSISSIPPI, INC.
WLOX-DT  UHF 39  344.3°   22.99mi     715.00kW   1,201ft (BILOX I, MS) LIBCO, INC.
WDAM-DT  UHF 28  346.5°   74.71mi      79.00kW     420ft (LAURE L, MS) WDAM LICENSE SUBSIDIARY, INC.

Data compiled from FCC database (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/databases/cdbs/) on 12/21/2004.

I live in Ridgeway VA. which is between two markets, Roanoke Va. which is 50 miles north and the Greensboro NC. market which 50 miles to the south. On a clear non windy day I can pick up the Raleigh NC. market as well. I live on a hill with a clear view of the southern sky. I will try different things later: remove pre-amp and if that doesn't work then install old antenna with pre-amp to see if that works. I will post the results once the changes have been made.

I installed the remote control C Master control unit last night. I dunno why the _ I didnt install this YEARS ago. I was still using those mechanical ones that make all the noise that you had to put in by hand. I just clipped the wires and put it in, using the existing rotator. I did get the entire kit cause my over a decade old rotator lost its braking ability, anytime there is wind the rotator shifts around, so hopefully the new rotator will cure that. Right now my 0 deg N is WAYY off, its almost 200 degrees off, but I will hopefully correct that when I redo the rotor and then ultimately the entire antenna stack.

I'm planning to mount an outdoor antenna for OTA. I currently have a silver sensor and it works well with considerable adjustments, but drops signal too often. I have a D* triple LNB dish running to a Sammy SRTS160. My questions are:

1. How should I run the line from the antenna to the receiver? Can I somehow combine it with the sat line or do I need to run a new one?

2. What short range outdoor antenna do you recommend?

3. Are there any good web sites with advice on installation?

Ok here it is: Pic of my setup. In a nutshell, the main mast is a piece of fence posting. It is supported by concrete in the ground, as well as the chimey straps. The rotator is mounted about 1/2 way down the chimney. I'm also using 2 rotator bearings so the majority of the mast has the 2 masts running side by side. The top rotator bearing is guyed to the house.

From the pic you can see the VHF only is at the bottom, the dish looking UHF is at the top and the FM only is at the very top. I wonder if these are too close to each other even though they're all running different frequencies. Right now I'm running no preamp, but do have a radio shack 4 way distribuation amp to help drive the signal through out the house.

I plan to probably ditch the channel master dish looking UHF and try out one of those Yagi style ones.

So far this stack has survived 10 years from everything such as icing in the inter as well as Tropical Storm Isabel last year.

I have no complaints about the FM or the VHF, but the UHF has something to be desired. I'm looking for any type of advice, good or bad.

I should mention that right now I am only using analog TV. Hopefully today, my dish 811 will arrive so I can try out digital TV. Also, according to the antenna web, I'm sort of on a side of a hill but I think my main (baltimore) stations I watch are just grazing the side of that hill. I think this hill is what is causing some multipath (or blocking some of the UHF altogether) especially in the UHF.

I'd like to get an elevation (what kind of map is that called?) so I can do some better calculations/drawings.


http://home.comcast.net/~ewong61/antenna/antenna1.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~ewong61/antenna/antenna2.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~ewong61/antenna/antenna3.JPG

Here are the antenna web calculations, although it does not show anything for Washington DC, I am able to get most of those stations as my setup is now.

View full report (http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp?latitude=39%2E5251&longitude=%2D76%2E4363&magnetic_north=%2D13%2E25&range=60&sort=distance&show_expired=False&show_construction=False&show_analog=True&show_low_power=False&action=Show+Stations)


Digital Television Stations (including Special Temporary Authority)
STATION CHANNEL DIRECTION DISTANCE         ERP      HAAT CIT Y/LICENSEE
WMPB-DT  UHF 29  267.0°   19.10mi      14.00kW   1,014ft (BALTIMO RE, MD) MARYLAND PUBLIC BROADCASTING COMMISSION
WGCB-DT  UHF 30  356.7°   27.39mi      50.00kW     554ft (RED LION, PA) RED LION BROADCASTING CO., INC.
WPMT-DT  UHF 47  359.2°   35.77mi       0.75kW   1,263ft (YORK, PA) TRIBUNE TELEVISION COMPANY
WPMT-DT  UHF 47  359.2°   35.77mi     933.00kW   1,263ft (YORK, PA) TRIBUNE TELEVISION COMPANY
WPMT-DT  UHF 47  359.2°   35.77mi      10.00kW     961ft (YORK, PA) TRIBUNE TELEVISION COMPANY
WGAL     UHF 58  357.9°   36.50mi     907.00kW   1,289ft (LA NCASTER, PA) WGAL HEARST-ARGYLE TELEVISION, INC.
WMPT-DT  UHF 42  207.9°   36.77mi     150.00kW     948ft (ANNAPOL IS, MD) MARYLAND PUBLIC BROADCASTING COMMISSION
WLYH-DT  UHF 23   11.6°   50.97mi     325.00kW   1,266ft (LANCAST ER, PA) TELEVISION STATION GROUP LICENSE SUBSIDIARY, LLC
WFDC-DT  UHF 15  234.0°   53.17mi      82.00kW     568ft (ARLINGT ON, VA) TELEFUTURA D.C. LLC
WETA-DT  UHF 27  233.9°   57.45mi      75.00kW     581ft (WASHING TON, DC) THE GREATER WASHINGTON EDUCATIONAL TELECOMMUNICATIONS ASSOC

Analog Television Stations
STATION CHANNEL DIRECTION DISTANCE         ERP      HAAT CIT Y/LICENSEE
WMPB     UHF 67  267.4°   18.89mi     646.00kW     820ft (BA LTIMORE, MD) MARYLAND PUBLIC BROADCASTING COMMISSION
WGCB-TV  UHF 49  356.8°   27.38mi     617.00kW     581ft (RED LION, PA) RED LION BROADCASTING CO., INC.
WPMT     UHF 43  359.2°   35.75mi   2,140.00kW   1,362ft (YO RK, PA) TRIBUNE TELEVISION COMPANY
WGAL     VHF  8  357.9°   36.50mi     110.00kW   1,375ft (LA NCASTER, PA) WGAL HEARST-ARGYLE TELEVISION, INC.
WMPT     UHF 22  207.9°   36.77mi   5,000.00kW     896ft (AN NAPOLIS, MD) MARYLAND PUBLIC BROADCASTING COMMISSION
WFPT     UHF 62  262.2°   50.23mi   2,500.00kW     522ft (FR EDERICK, MD) MARYLAND PUBLIC BROADCASTING COMMISSION
WFPT     UHF 62  265.6°   50.88mi   3,160.00kW     453ft (FR EDERICK, MD) MARYLAND PUBLIC BROADCASTING COMMISSION
WLYH-TV  UHF 15   11.5°   50.94mi   1,050.00kW   1,362ft (LANCAST ER, PA) TELEVISION STATION GROUP LICENSE SUBSIDIARY, LLC
WETA-TV  UHF 26  236.1°   52.78mi   2,290.00kW     771ft (WASHING TON, DC) THE GREATER WASHINGTON EDUCATIONAL TELECOMMUNICATIONS ASSOC
WHUT-TV  UHF 32  236.1°   52.78mi   5,000.00kW     699ft (WASHING TON, DC) HOWARD UNIVERSITY
940630KG UHF 51   41.6°   59.99mi   5,000.00kW     502ft (RE ADING, PA) ADAMS COMMUNICATIONS CORPORATION

Data compiled from FCC database (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/databases/cdbs/) on 12/21/2004.


EDIT: the 2050 site I cant seem to list any of the Baltimore stations (and thats the closest city, only 20 miles or so away). How strange. Any ideas???

Originally posted by ericdwong
EDIT: the 2050 site I cant seem to list any of the Baltimore stations (and thats the closest city, only 20 miles or so away). How strange. Any ideas???
The FCC data is a mess. Many licenses are marked to expire in 10/2004; check the "Show expired records" checkbox and rerun it.

I haven't found a reliable way to prune back data from prior applications -- one that seems clearly to work in all the markets I try it on, to give a list of the cuirrent state of each station. So it ends up being left to you to make some choices right now to figure out what is and isn't a reflection of reality. :)

Obviously it was somewhat wrong of me to think when a license is expired an new application or license would be in the system to rely upon. I'll have to find a means to work around this one, now.

Easy, quick question: Are standoffs a necessity. I didnt use any when I set up my 3020 today. Just used tie raps to attach the cable to the pole. I am getting NO digital channels. D*tv installed a puny batwing previously, and it gets 3 digital channels. When I installed the 3020 I fully expected much better reception. This standoff thing is the only thing I can think of that could be wrong with the setup, but I dont want to get back out in the COOOOLD weather if its not a problem.
Thanks, and MERRY CHRISTMAS!!
dj

Ahhh, much better. In any case, somehow I got lucky that the vast majority of stations I need to watch (both Baltimore and Washington) are all at the same angle! looks like 234.4 degrees is my magic number. But also, the Philadelphia stations that I can try to reel in from time to time are all along the same line, so now I can program the rotator's presets


View full report (http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp?latitude=39%2E5251&longitude=%2D76%2E4363&magnetic_north=%2D13%2E25&range=80&sort=distance&show_expired=True&show_construction=False&show_analog=True&show_low_power=False&action=Show+Stations)


Digital Television Stations (including Special Temporary Authority)
STATION CHANNEL DIRECTION DISTANCE         ERP      HAAT CIT Y/LICENSEE
WNUV-DT  UHF 40  234.4°   17.33mi     845.00kW   1,223ft (BALTIMO RE, MD) BALTIMORE (WNUV-TV) LICENSEE, INC.
WNUV-DT  UHF 40  234.4°   17.33mi       9.20kW   1,223ft (BALTIMO RE, MD) BALTIMORE (WNUV-TV) LICENSEE, INC.
WBFF-DT  UHF 46  234.4°   17.33mi     550.00kW   1,223ft (BALTIMO RE, MD) CHESAPEAKE TELEVISION LICENSEE, LLC
WBFF-DT  UHF 46  234.4°   17.33mi      35.00kW   1,119ft (BALTIMO RE, MD) CHESAPEAKE TELEVISION LICENSEE, LLC
WBFF-DT  UHF 46  234.4°   17.33mi      46.60kW   1,223ft (BALTIMO RE, MD) CHESAPEAKE TELEVISION LICENSEE, LLC
WJZ-DT   UHF 38  234.4°   17.43mi     522.00kW   1,024ft (BALTIM ORE, MD) VIACOM INC.
WMAR-DT  UHF 52  234.4°   17.43mi     602.00kW   1,020ft (BALTIMO RE, MD) SCRIPPS HOWARD BROADCASTING COMPANY
WBAL-DT  UHF 59  234.4°   17.44mi     513.00kW   1,024ft (BALTIMO RE, MD) WBAL HEARST-ARGYLE TV, INC. (CA CORP.)
WMPB-DT  UHF 29  267.0°   19.10mi      14.00kW   1,014ft (BALTIMO RE, MD) MARYLAND PUBLIC BROADCASTING COMMISSION
WMPB     UHF 29  267.0°   19.10mi      14.00kW   1,014ft (BA LTIMORE, MD) MARYLAND PUBLIC BROADCASTING COMMISSION
WUTB-DT  UHF 41  239.9°   23.86mi       0.53kW   1,030ft (BALTIMO RE, MD) FOX TELEVISION STATIONS, INC.
WGCB-DT  UHF 30  356.7°   27.39mi     500.00kW     572ft (RED LION, PA) RED LION BROADCASTING CO., INC.
WGCB-DT  UHF 30  356.7°   27.39mi      50.00kW     554ft (RED LION, PA) RED LION BROADCASTING CO., INC.
WPMT-DT  UHF 47  359.2°   35.77mi     933.00kW   1,263ft (YORK, PA) TRIBUNE TELEVISION COMPANY
WPMT-DT  UHF 47  359.2°   35.77mi       0.75kW   1,263ft (YORK, PA) TRIBUNE TELEVISION COMPANY
WPMT-DT  UHF 47  359.2°   35.77mi      10.00kW     961ft (YORK, PA) TRIBUNE TELEVISION COMPANY
WGAL     UHF 58  357.9°   36.50mi     907.00kW   1,289ft (LA NCASTER, PA) WGAL HEARST-ARGYLE TELEVISION, INC.
WMPT-DT  UHF 42  207.9°   36.77mi     150.00kW     948ft (ANNAPOL IS, MD) MARYLAND PUBLIC BROADCASTING COMMISSION
WBDC-DT  UHF 51  232.5°   50.10mi     125.00kW     828ft (WASHING TON, DC) WBDC BROADCASTING, INC.
WLYH-DT  UHF 23   11.6°   50.97mi     325.00kW   1,266ft (LANCAST ER, PA) TELEVISION STATION GROUP LICENSE SUBSIDIARY, LLC
WDCA-DT  UHF 35  234.8°   52.38mi       1.17kW     479ft (WASHING TON, DC) FOX TELEVISION STATIONS, INC.
WTTG-DT  UHF 36  234.8°   52.38mi   1,000.00kW     659ft (WASHING TON, DC) FOX TELEVISION STATIONS, INC.
WHUT-DT  UHF 33  234.4°   52.56mi     100.00kW     833ft (WASHING TON, DC) HOWARD UNIVERSITY
WUSA-DT  UHF 34  234.4°   52.56mi   1,000.00kW     833ft (WASHING TON, DC) THE DETROIT NEWS, INC.
WDCA     UHF 35  234.4°   52.56mi     500.00kW     833ft (WA SHINGTON, DC) FOX TELEVISION STATIONS, INC.
WJLA-DT  UHF 39  234.4°   52.56mi   1,000.00kW     833ft (WASHING TON, DC) ACC LICENSEE, INC.
WJLA-DT  UHF 39  234.4°   52.59mi     646.00kW     833ft (WASHING TON, DC) ACC LICENSEE, INC.
WFDC-DT  UHF 15  234.0°   53.17mi      82.00kW     568ft (ARLINGT ON, VA) TELEFUTURA D.C. LLC
WRC-DT   UHF 48  234.0°   53.18mi     813.00kW     794ft (WASHIN GTON, DC) NBC TELEMUNDO LICENSE CO.
WETA-DT  UHF 27  233.9°   57.45mi      75.00kW     581ft (WASHING TON, DC) THE GREATER WASHINGTON EDUCATIONAL TELECOMMUNICATIONS ASSOC
WHTM-DT  VHF 10  346.9°   61.06mi      16.20kW   1,021ft (HARRISB URG, PA) HARRISBURG TELEVISION, INC.
WHP-DT   VHF  4  351.4°   61.13mi       2.30kW   1,145ft (HARRIS BURG, PA) CLEAR CHANNEL BROADCASTING LICENSES, INC.
WHP-DT   VHF  4  351.4°   61.13mi       0.57kW   1,145ft (HARRIS BURG, PA) CLEAR CHANNEL BROADCASTING LICENSES, INC.
WITF-DT  UHF 36  351.4°   61.18mi      50.00kW   1,348ft (HARRISB URG, PA) WITF, INC.
WNVC-DT  UHF 57  236.6°   61.62mi       7.30kW     570ft (FAIRFAX , VA) COMMONWEALTH PUBLIC BROADCASTING CORPORATION
WTVE-DT  UHF 25   39.5°   63.97mi       0.63kW     719ft (READING , PA) READING BROADCASTING, INC.
WTVE-DT  UHF 25   48.2°   68.16mi     900.00kW   1,297ft (READING , PA) READING BROADCASTING, INC.
WPXW     UHF 43  236.7°   69.90mi      90.00kW     623ft (MA NASSAS, VA) PAXSON WASHINGTON LICENSE, INC.
KYW-DT   UHF 26   73.5°   72.78mi     770.00kW   1,230ft (PHILAD ELPHIA, PA) CBS BROADCASTING INC.
WPVI-DT  UHF 64   73.5°   72.78mi     500.00kW   1,280ft (PHILADE LPHIA, PA) ABC, INC.
WGTW     UHF 27   73.4°   72.80mi     225.00kW   1,099ft (BU RLINGTON, NJ) BRUNSON COMMUNICATIONS, INC.
WHYY-DT  UHF 55   73.5°   72.87mi     337.00kW     850ft (WILMING TON, DE) WHYY, INC.
WHYY-DT  UHF 55   73.5°   72.87mi      87.00kW     850ft (WILMING TON, DE) WHYY, INC.
WGTW-DT  UHF 27   73.6°   73.03mi       3.30kW     820ft (BURLING TON, NJ) BRUNSON COMMUNICATIONS, INC.
WPPX-DT  UHF 31   73.6°   73.03mi     200.00kW   1,227ft (WILMING TON, DE) PAXSON PHILADELPHIA LICENSE, INC.
WPSG-DT  UHF 32   73.6°   73.03mi     250.00kW   1,312ft (PHILADE LPHIA, PA) VIACOM STATIONS GROUP OF PHILADELPHIA INC.
WYBE-DT  UHF 34   73.6°   73.03mi     500.00kW   1,125ft (PHILADE LPHIA, PA) INDEPENDENCE PUBLIC MEDIA OF PHILADELPHIA, INC.
WPHL-DT  UHF 54   73.6°   73.03mi     500.00kW   1,161ft (PHILADE LPHIA, PA) TRIBUNE TELEVISION COMPANY
WUVP-DT  UHF 66   73.6°   73.03mi     500.00kW   1,299ft (VINELAN D, NJ) UNIVISION PHILADELPHIA LLC
WCAU-DT  UHF 67   73.6°   73.03mi     560.00kW   1,237ft (PHILADE LPHIA, PA) NBC TELEMUNDO LICENSE CO.
WDPB-DT  UHF 44  156.7°   74.68mi      98.00kW     643ft (SEAFORD , DE) WHYY, INC.
WMDT-DT  UHF 53  164.9°   80.14mi      25.10kW     938ft (SALISBU RY, MD) DELMARVA BROADCAST SERVICE GENERAL PARTNERSHIP
WMDT     UHF 53  164.9°   80.15mi     250.00kW     958ft (SA LISBURY, MD) DELMARVA BROADCAST SERVICE GENERAL PARTNERSHIP

Analog Television Stations
STATION CHANNEL DIRECTION DISTANCE         ERP      HAAT CIT Y/LICENSEE
WBFF     UHF 45  234.4°   17.34mi   1,290.00kW   1,266ft (BA LTIMORE, MD) CHESAPEAKE TELEVISION LICENSEE, LLC
WMAR-TV  VHF  2  234.4°   17.42mi     100.00kW     974ft (BALTIMO RE, MD) SCRIPPS HOWARD BROADCASTING COMPANY
WBAL-TV  VHF 11  234.4°   17.44mi     316.00kW     981ft (BALTIMO RE, MD) WBAL HEARST-ARGYLE TV, INC. (CA CORP.)
WJZ-TV   VHF 13  234.4°   17.44mi     316.00kW     958ft (BALTIM ORE, MD) VIACOM INC.
WMPB     UHF 67  267.4°   18.89mi     646.00kW     820ft (BA LTIMORE, MD) MARYLAND PUBLIC BROADCASTING COMMISSION
WMPB     UHF 67  267.0°   19.10mi   1,000.00kW   1,014ft (BA LTIMORE, MD) MARYLAND PUBLIC BROADCASTING COMMISSION
WUTB     UHF 24  240.0°   23.85mi   1,170.00kW   1,070ft (BA LTIMORE, MD) FOX TELEVISION STATIONS, INC.
WNUV     UHF 54  240.0°   23.85mi   5,000.00kW   1,145ft (BA LTIMORE, MD) BALTIMORE (WNUV-TV) LICENSEE, INC.
WGCB-TV  UHF 49  356.8°   27.38mi     617.00kW     581ft (RED LION, PA) RED LION BROADCASTING CO., INC.
WPMT     UHF 43  359.2°   35.75mi   2,140.00kW   1,362ft (YO RK, PA) TRIBUNE TELEVISION COMPANY
WGAL     VHF  8  357.9°   36.50mi     110.00kW   1,375ft (LA NCASTER, PA) WGAL HEARST-ARGYLE TELEVISION, INC.
WMPT     UHF 22  207.9°   36.77mi   5,000.00kW     896ft (AN NAPOLIS, MD) MARYLAND PUBLIC BROADCASTING COMMISSION
WFPT     UHF 62  262.2°   50.23mi   2,500.00kW     522ft (FR EDERICK, MD) MARYLAND PUBLIC BROADCASTING COMMISSION
WBDC-TV  UHF 50  232.5°   50.10mi   4,178.00kW     828ft (WASHING TON, DC) WBDC BROADCASTING, INC.
WBDC-TV  UHF 50  232.5°   50.13mi   2,450.00kW     810ft (WASHING TON, DC) WBDC BROADCASTING, INC.
WFPT     UHF 62  265.6°   50.88mi   3,160.00kW     453ft (FR EDERICK, MD) MARYLAND PUBLIC BROADCASTING COMMISSION
WLYH-TV  UHF 15   11.5°   50.94mi   1,050.00kW   1,362ft (LANCAST ER, PA) TELEVISION STATION GROUP LICENSE SUBSIDIARY, LLC
WTTG     VHF  5  234.8°   52.37mi     100.00kW     771ft (WA SHINGTON, DC) FOX TELEVISION STATIONS, INC.
WJLA-TV  VHF  7  234.4°   52.56mi     316.00kW     771ft (WASHING TON, DC) ACC LICENSEE, INC.
WUSA     VHF  9  234.4°   52.56mi     316.00kW     771ft (WA SHINGTON, DC) THE DETROIT NEWS, INC.
WDCA     UHF 20  236.2°   52.76mi   3,980.00kW     771ft (WA SHINGTON, DC) FOX TELEVISION STATIONS, INC.
WETA-TV  UHF 26  236.1°   52.78mi   2,290.00kW     771ft (WASHING TON, DC) THE GREATER WASHINGTON EDUCATIONAL TELECOMMUNICATIONS ASSOC
WHUT-TV  UHF 32  236.1°   52.78mi   5,000.00kW     699ft (WASHING TON, DC) HOWARD UNIVERSITY
WRC-TV   VHF  4  234.0°   53.18mi     100.00kW     745ft (WASHIN GTON, DC) NBC TELEMUNDO LICENSE CO.
WTMW     UHF 14  234.0°   53.18mi   2,880.00kW     568ft (AR LINGTON, VA) TELEFUTURA D.C. LLC
940630KG UHF 51   41.6°   59.99mi   5,000.00kW     502ft (RE ADING, PA) ADAMS COMMUNICATIONS CORPORATION
WHTM-TV  UHF 27  346.9°   61.07mi   2,140.00kW   1,135ft (HARRISB URG, PA) HARRISBURG TELEVISION, INC.
WHP-TV   UHF 21  351.4°   61.13mi   1,200.00kW   1,220ft (HARRIS BURG, PA) CLEAR CHANNEL BROADCASTING LICENSES, INC.
WITF-TV  UHF 33  351.4°   61.16mi   1,100.00kW   1,401ft (HARRISB URG, PA) WITF, INC.
WNVC     UHF 56  236.6°   61.63mi   1,230.00kW     732ft (FA IRFAX, VA) COMMONWEALTH PUBLIC BROADCASTING CORPORATION
WPPX     UHF 61   91.9°   61.67mi   3,020.00kW     958ft (WI LMINGTON, DE) PAXSON PHILADELPHIA LICENSE, INC.
WTVE     UHF 51   39.5°   63.95mi   1,450.00kW     751ft (RE ADING, PA) READING BROADCASTING, INC.
WTVE     UHF 51   39.5°   63.97mi   4,950.00kW     843ft (RE ADING, PA) READING BROADCASTING, INC.
WPXW     UHF 66  236.7°   69.90mi   3,400.00kW     623ft (MA NASSAS, VA) PAXSON WASHINGTON LICENSE, INC.
WGTW     UHF 48   73.4°   72.80mi   2,340.00kW   1,099ft (BU RLINGTON, NJ) BRUNSON COMMUNICATIONS, INC.
WHYY-TV  VHF 12   73.5°   72.87mi     309.00kW     965ft (WILMING TON, DE) WHYY, INC.
WPHL-TV  UHF 17   73.5°   72.87mi   2,340.00kW   1,050ft (PHILADE LPHIA, PA) TRIBUNE TELEVISION COMPANY
WTXF-TV  UHF 29   73.6°   72.88mi   5,000.00kW   1,138ft (PHILADE LPHIA, PA) FOX TV STATIONS OF PHILADELPHIA
KYW-TV   VHF  3   73.4°   72.89mi     100.00kW   1,001ft (PHILAD ELPHIA, PA) CBS BROADCASTING INC.
WPVI-TV  VHF  6   73.4°   72.89mi      74.10kW   1,089ft (PHILADE LPHIA, PA) ABC, INC.
WPSG     UHF 57   73.7°   72.92mi   3,470.00kW   1,178ft (PH ILADELPHIA, PA) VIACOM STATIONS GROUP OF PHILADELPHIA INC.
WYBE     UHF 35   73.6°   73.03mi   1,000.00kW   1,125ft (PH ILADELPHIA, PA) INDEPENDENCE PUBLIC MEDIA OF PHILADELPHIA, INC.
WUVP     UHF 65   73.6°   73.03mi   4,070.00kW   1,299ft (VI NELAND, NJ) UNIVISION PHILADELPHIA LLC
WCAU     VHF 10   73.5°   73.04mi     191.00kW   1,161ft (PH ILADELPHIA, PA) NBC TELEMUNDO LICENSE CO.
WDPB     UHF 64  156.7°   74.68mi     186.00kW     640ft (SE AFORD, DE) WHYY, INC.
WDPB     UHF 64  156.7°   74.68mi      48.70kW     502ft (SE AFORD, DE) WHYY, INC.
WMDT     UHF 47  164.9°   80.13mi   2,190.00kW     997ft (SA LISBURY, MD) DELMARVA BROADCAST SERVICE GENERAL PARTNERSHIP

Data compiled from FCC database (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/databases/cdbs/) on 12/21/2004.

Originally posted by DennyH
Easy, quick question: Are standoffs a necessity. I didnt use any when I set up my 3020 today. Just used tie raps to attach the cable to the pole. I am getting NO digital channels. D*tv installed a puny batwing previously, and it gets 3 digital channels. When I installed the 3020 I fully expected much better reception. This standoff thing is the only thing I can think of that could be wrong with the setup, but I dont want to get back out in the COOOOLD weather if its not a problem.
Thanks, and MERRY CHRISTMAS!!
dj
I don't think standoffs would have anything to do with reception problems; do you get any signs of a signal -- any signal strength measurements at all?

What receiver are you using? Where are you and how far from the stations are you?

Did you aim the antenna correctly? (The UHF yagi part is the front and should be towards the stations).

Originally posted by ericdwong
Ahhh, much better. In any case, somehow I got lucky that the vast majority of stations I need to watch (both Baltimore and Washington) are all at the same angle! looks like 234.4 degrees is my magic number. But also, the Philadelphia stations that I can try to reel in from time to time are all along the same line, so now I can program the rotator's presets
I finally got network affiliation info on the stations and that's now part of the report. I'll be cleaning it up some over the next few days, too.

Originally posted by DennyH
Easy, quick question: Are standoffs a necessity. I didnt use any when I set up my 3020 today. Just used tie raps to attach the cable to the pole. I am getting NO digital channels. D*tv installed a puny batwing previously, and it gets 3 digital channels. When I installed the 3020 I fully expected much better reception. This standoff thing is the only thing I can think of that could be wrong with the setup, but I dont want to get back out in the COOOOLD weather if its not a problem.
Thanks, and MERRY CHRISTMAS!!
dj

Standoffs are only necessary with twinlead. With coax it shouldn't matter.

Standoffs are not necessary for 75 Ohm coax. They can be important for 300 Ohm twinlead.

I don't think standoffs would have anything to do with reception problems; do you get any signs of a signal -- any signal strength measurements at all?
What receiver are you using? Where are you and how far from the stations are you?
Did you aim the antenna correctly? (The UHF yagi part is the front and should be towards the stations).

The receiver is the RCA DTC210. We are about 30-35 miles away from the Towers: 36608 with large oak trees over head.
The antenna is aimed correctly according to the ChannelMaster instructions.
Sorry for this question, but how do I go about testing signal strength? I know how to get signal strength for the satellites, but how for OTA? When I do the station search, I get "0" digital stations shown.
BTW, I am using coax.
Thanks,
DJ

Eric,

Here are a few suggestions. Your antennas are too close to each other. If you separated them they would work better.

I do not see any preamplifiers. A preamplifier boosts the signal near the antenna where the quality is the best and befor it will be degraded by signal loss in the coaxial cable.

Try using a smaller UHF antenna that is very directional such as the Channel Master 4221 or the 4228. Try different locations on the roof for signal quality. Different locations on the roof will have different signal qualities and levels. Also try different heights.

Good luck,

Dave

I'm just starting receiving the HD channels with my Dish receiver.......What equipment would I need to get my locals in HD using an antenna.........would I need more equipment than just the antenna??

Thanks,

MIke

IS it possible to get HD programming with an indoor antenna...hope this isn't a dumb question??

No,not a dumb question. If you have good line of sight to the transformer---say 25/35 miles. (means no tall buildings / or mountians)---then it is quite possible. You can always go to Radio Shack and buy whatever they sug. and get your money back if it don't work.--Save all the 'came/with' packaging stuff.

Originally posted by gkman1
IS it possible to get HD programming with an indoor antenna...hope this isn't a dumb question??

I picked up two towers both 19-22 miles away with about an 80 degree spread between them with a cheap RS Double-bowtie antenna. (and didn't have to move it to pick up both towers)

FYI, keep all your antenna questions in this thread (don't start a new thread) or if you want area specific info, check the THREAD INDEX link in my signature to find your local thread.

Originally posted by gkman1
IS it possible to get HD programming with an indoor antenna...hope this isn't a dumb question??

The Zenith Silver Sensor has decent gain and is probably your best bet for an indoor antenna. You can pick it up at Sears for around $30.00. It is very directional, so make sure you have it pointed at your towers. If it doesn't work you can always take it back to Sears. Good Luck!!

Newbie here. I'm in Jersey City, NJ, about 3 miles from Ground Zero, and probably about 5 miles from the ESB. I live in a four story Brownstone, about 50' tall. I want to mount an antenna on the chiminey. From my rooftop, I used to have a direct line of sight to the WTC antenna. I may even have a direct line of sight to the ESB (don't remember).

A few questions.

1 - Can anyone recommend a good multi purpose antenna (HDTV, VHF, UHF, FM)?

2 - Is there such a thing as overkill? Because of my proximity to NYC, can I have 'too much' antenna?

3 - I'm also thinking of using an antenna rotator. Can anyone recommend a good one?

Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by ElVee
1 - Can anyone recommend a good multi purpose antenna (HDTV, VHF, UHF, FM)?

2 - Is there such a thing as overkill? Because of my proximity to NYC, can I have 'too much' antenna?

3 - I'm also thinking of using an antenna rotator. Can anyone recommend a good one?


1- Any antenna from Winegard or Channel Master that looks like a "normal" antenna should work great. Avoid ones that are circular, "bat-wing" shaped, or super-small.

2- For all practical purposes, no. A larger antenna will be more directional, which may mean that your aim needs to be more precise. But the only way to overdrive the signal is to use an amplifier, which at your distance is not recommended.

3- Channel Master 9521A. Remote-controlled. Champ of its class (sub-$100.)

I bought a Phillips 25db amplified antenna to see if I could actually get the locals in HD..I was able to get ABC and CBS.....the signal last night was about 70-75...this morning it was 81-91....the signal sometimes gets lost....what should I do next...should I check into an attic antenna...I really want to avoid roof antennas...especially if I'm very close to keeping the signal without having to do that. Can anyone recommend an attic atenna if this is the way I can go....I'd like to buy it at a local store...if not, anyone have any luck with antenna direct's DB2 or Db4??

Thanks for the help!!

MIke

Originally posted by gkman1
I bought a Phillips 25db amplified antenna to see if I could actually get the locals in HD..I was able to get ABC and CBS.....the signal last night was about 70-75...this morning it was 81-91....the signal sometimes gets lost....what should I do next...should I check into an attic antenna...I really want to avoid roof antennas...especially if I'm very close to keeping the signal without having to do that. Can anyone recommend an attic atenna if this is the way I can go....I'd like to buy it at a local store...if not, anyone have any luck with antenna direct's DB2 or Db4??

The Phillips antenna isn't worth whatever you paid for it. Hopefully you can return it.

Try to find a Zenith Silver Sensor indoor antenna. It should dramatically improve your reception.

If that doesn't work, then you can look into buying a bowtie-style antenna for your attic. The DB2 and DB4 are excellent choices, though you could probably buy a Channel Master 3021 or 4228 for less (they perform at about 75-80% of the DB4 and DB8 levels, for better than half the price.)

Even so, attic antennas (like indoor antennas) are a crap-shoot. You might get great reception. You might get nothing. Too many factors go into it to know for sure what will or what won't work in your area. Most people who use indoor antennas report success with the Zenith Silver Sensor. Most who go with attics do well with the 4228 or DB8. Still, there are those who have tried "everything" and have finally concluded that the only way to get a reliable signal was to go "outdoors."

Good luck!

Any experience out there?

James

Originally posted by Suprfly2k
Any experience out there?

James
If the direction you need to aim at is through the side of the house, you might be OK, but if it's through the roof, the tin is going to block a considerable amount of your signal. If you're within 30 miles or so of your broadcast towers, look at the Winegard SquareShooter and install it outside; it's compact like a typical dish at 16"x16"x4".

I have a RS Double Bowtie indoor antenna. Is there a better indoor antenna? The reason I am using an indoor antenna is that my outdoor antenna loses channel 56 signal when it is fed though my Terk 5 by 8 powered multiswitch. If anyone has a solution to this problem please post a reply.

Zenith silver sensor.......I just bought a Gemini from Amazon.com....the model number was Gemini ZHDTV1 HDTV/UHF Digital....I believe this is the same model number as the Zenith and looks the same...Does anyone know if this is the same??

It is the same. You'll see them branded as Zenith, Gemini and Philips that I know of.

Searched forum for answer but must not have come up in awhile. I am switching to DishNet and I understand that I need an ant for HD locals. I have been to ant. choosing website but need local Vegas answers. I live in NW (Buffalo/Cheyenne). With the ant. that clips on the sat dish pick up the HD locals? Or will I need to get say a Terk 55? Suggestions??? Thanks in advance.
I will be using component hook up on a 50" pio Plasma. No DVI. Dishnet model #6000HD or the newer box.

If anyone is having a hard time pulling in VHF DTV channels you might want look how I beat my VHF DTV reception here in OKC.

http://www.hdtvok.com/mod.php?mod=userpage&menu=13&page_id=6

I live in an apartment in Lewisville, Texas and need an indoor antenna. What is the best one to try first? I am looking at the Zenith silver sensor mentioned on this site. I know that an outdoor antenna would be the better option but I have no room living in an apartment. I have also seen people on this forum reference a $50 radio shack amplified antenna that seems to work well. What would be my best option to start with? I checked on antennaweb and I about roughly a little less than 30 miles from the nearest transmitter (NBC, CBS, ABC, etc). I have a feeling I may be out of luck but thought I would ask. Thanks in advance!

I bought the silver sensor last night...it pulled in a strong signal from ABC....couldn't get anything else....ABC is about 15 miles from me......the others are about 30...have also tried Phillips and RCA amplified antennas....same luck.....I kind of live in the valley ...I might try an attic antenna.....or just settle with what I have....try a few out...you can always return them.

Assuming all the digital channels are UHF this is one of the best. Yep it's ugly but works.
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=930-0998

If that's not what you looking for or doesn't do the job then the your have to go outside with this.
http://www.winegard.com/offair/squareshooter.htm

Lot more money but probably the next best thing to a full size outside antenna. Good Luck

Originally posted by jimc705
Assuming all the digital channels are UHF this is one of the best. Yep it's ugly but works.
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=930-0998

If that's not what you looking for or doesn't do the job then the your have to go outside with this.
http://www.winegard.com/offair/squareshooter.htm

Lot more money but probably the next best thing to a full size outside antenna. Good Luck


I think a few of the channels are VHF (ABC is the one I have noticed). I might try that radioshack one. Do I have to buy a separate antenna for VHF to try and pick up the ABC station? I know it's a dumb question but I am new at this :) It seems that only WFAA ABC is the only station on my list that doesn't also have a UHF version available. All of the other big ones like NBC, CBS, PBS, etc. have them. That is very strange.

OK...probably a dumb question...
I live about 20 miles from NY & have an antenna in the attic pointing at Empire State, and receive NBC, CBS, ABC OTA HDTV.
About 180 degrees out is my local PBS HDTV, that I can receive if I rotate the antenna (killing the network feeds).
I have another antenna from my Mom's house...can I just connect the twin leads all together before they go into the coax without screwing up anything? Or do I need some sort of splitter/combiner?
Thank you!

Originally posted by yearoftherabbit
I think a few of the channels are VHF (ABC is the one I have noticed). I might try that radioshack one. Do I have to buy a separate antenna for VHF to try and pick up the ABC station? I know it's a dumb question but I am new at this :) It seems that only WFAA ABC is the only station on my list that doesn't also have a UHF version available. All of the other big ones like NBC, CBS, PBS, etc. have them. That is very strange.

I use the RS 15-1880 (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=15-1880) and have decent luck with UHF. I too live in an apt, but i face SW when the towers are NE of me, so if you face the towers you should be a LOT better off. I am working on a cut antenna for Ch 7 here in KC.

Originally posted by dpiroh
OK...probably a dumb question...
I live about 20 miles from NY & have an antenna in the attic pointing at Empire State, and receive NBC, CBS, ABC OTA HDTV.
About 180 degrees out is my local PBS HDTV, that I can receive if I rotate the antenna (killing the network feeds).
I have another antenna from my Mom's house...can I just connect the twin leads all together before they go into the coax without screwing up anything? Or do I need some sort of splitter/combiner?
Thank you!
Ideally to do such a thing you'd use devices which would notch out the frequencies you wanted to pick up from the second antenna from the output of the first antenna before you combined them; this is because each antenna is likely to be picking up something of the signal from the back which would probably interfere enough when mixing the two you'd have more problems.

Some antennas have a reasonable gain from the rear and sides; for example I can aim my Channel Master 4228 at Philadelphia (60 miles away) and still receive WCBS from NY (30 miles away) even though it's 120° off-axis from the direction the antenna is aimed (haven't tried that again to see if I can pick up any other NY channels since they've gone higher power than they were a year and a half ago).

A lot will depend on your antenna, and what stations may exist on the same frequencies off in each direction which may interfere with stations you want, and what power all those stations are transmitting with, and whether or not there's objects around which might generate some multipath.

In other words, you can always try; and there's things you can do to help it out (notch filters), but in the end, you can't be sure until you experiment.

BTW, everyone...

It's really helpful in the kind of discussion that goes on in this thread if you'd edit your profile and include your city and state; even though you might mention it in a post where you first ask a question, that can become lost after a little back and forth discussion (moreso when other discussions occur inbetween) and things can get confusing.

:)

Thank you Doug (from this Doug!)...who will also be spending the summer in Long Branch this year!

Originally posted by dpiroh
Thank you Doug (from this Doug!)...who will also be spending the summer in Long Branch this year!

Oh, and to answer the actual question you had... you'd combine antennas using a splitter (which could be called a combiner; they work both ways). Notch filters would be installed just prior to each antenna going into a splitter/combiner to eliminate frequencies from each. And there's certain devices like the CHannel Master Jointenna, which combine all this into one package for some limited frequency ranges. To be able to make clean enough notches for adjacent frqeuncies can require some expensive filters, though, so as long as the stations aren't too close together with stations on the other antenna, it's not too costly; but if there were adjacent channels, you'd be spending as much as $100-$200 for some high quality filters.

All this stuff would be best done by a professional installer who had the equipment to try out first, rather than going and buying all these things to try. Unfortunately some stuff tends to be custom-made, so it's not all that likely even pro installers would have specialized notch filters at their disposal to try out.

yearoftherabbit,
If you need VHF for just one channel build your own dipole with 300 ohm twin lead cut to the correct length for that channel. Very easy to do here is a link to do so.
http://www.wfu.edu/~matthews/misc/dipole.html

Then get a vhf/uhf combiner to join the 2 into one downlead. The dipole has about 2.5 db gain front and to the rear. It will also pick up other high band channels but will do best at the particular frequency it was made for. There is no back rejection so you can pick up from 2 different stations in opposite directions. You cab buy all the supplies at your local radio shack.

diproh,
You can give it a shot but unless the signals are extremely strong I doubt it will work. I've tried before and ended up losing a few channels if not all. The cheapest and easy way is to install a dedicated antenna for PBS and then use an A/B switch to switch between them. This way you'll have no additonal loss of signal and will get all the stations you want. An A?B switch can be bought locally for less then $5. You'll need an additional coax run for the second antenna to your switch.

Exception if PBS is a VHF channel then you can just combine them with a VHF/UHF combiner/splitter.

Originally posted by dpiroh
I have another antenna from my Mom's house...can I just connect the twin leads all together before they go into the coax without screwing up anything? Or do I need some sort of splitter/combiner?

Get a ChannelMaster "Jointenna" designed for the PBS station in question. For about $10, you'll have a solution that's much cheaper than notch filters.

I am only able to recieve cbs at about 25% from with a silver sensor. Any tips on how to improve silver sensors performance. I am about 45 miles away from the transmitter. Thanks in advance

At 45mi, you are really asking alot of that antenna. Can you have a small outside antenna?

hello everyone,

i am brand new to this but have been lurking for a few days.
anyway, i just hooked up a silver sensor to my new sony built-in hd set, tuned it in to channel 10.1 and everything has been going strong. i live in davis (about 25 miles from the towers).

the problem comes when i go to any other hd channel. 3.1, 13.2, 40.1, etc.
none of them will keep a consistent signal for more than 30 seconds or so. the signal jumps from 40 to 75 or 80, back down to 40 and dropping out.

i have experimented with moving the silver sensor around but nothing is helping yet. plus it has been raining on and off and looks like it will continue for the next few days.

i obviously will keep trying but in the meantime...any ideas? hints? tips? seems very strange that one channel would come in crystal clear but can't keep a signal going on any other frequency.

thanks in advance

Originally posted by chico123
i live in davis (about 25 miles from the towers).

i obviously will keep trying but in the meantime...any ideas? hints? tips? seems very strange that one channel would come in crystal clear but can't keep a signal going on any other frequency.


Well, it's hard to help you since I can't do any investigation into the power or location of the transmitters for the stations you returned. Why?

From Google: Results 1 - 10 of about 44,900,000 for Davis

A state would be a big boost in figuring out what stations you should be receiving.

You are experencing multipath. Sorry but the silver sensor probably will never work in this case. You'll need a good directional antenna to get rid of the multipath. The signal is bouncing and coming into the antenna in several different directions at different times cancelling each other. This is why the signal level is going up and down. The channel 10.1 you are getting is either a straight shot from the transmitter to you , or is close enough that the main signal is very strong and overides the multipath signals.

As Serenger says know way to help you without more info about your location. Zip code will do. Add in any other info like mountains in east within 1/4 mile or tall building next door between you and transmitters. Then someone will be able to assist you better. Go to antennaweb.org and put in your address to see what directions the transmitters are.

I'm just south of Boston and all the channels I'm after are 16-17 miles away (and all within 2 degrees).

* yellow - uhf WSBK-DT 38.1 UPN BOSTON MA 309° 17.0 39
* yellow - uhf WMFP-DT 18 SAH LAWRENCE MA FCC Ext 309° 16.3 18
* yellow - uhf WFXT-DT 25.1 FOX BOSTON MA 309° 16.0 31
* yellow - uhf WGBH-DT 2.1 PBS BOSTON MA 309° 17.0 19
* yellow - uhf WGBX-DT 44.1 PBS BOSTON MA 309° 17.0 43
* yellow - uhf WBZ-DT 4.1 CBS BOSTON MA 309° 17.0 30
* yellow - uhf WCVB-DT 5.1 ABC BOSTON MA 309° 17.0 20
* yellow - uhf WHDH-DT 7.1 NBC BOSTON MA 311° 16.1 42


I guess I'm going to order a DB4 from Antennas direct. My only question is, is this 'medium range' antenna too much for me? Am I likely to experience this 'multi-path' I read so much about? I just don't feel safe getting a short range antenna at this distance. It will be mounted on a mast on the chimney atop the 2nd floor of my home (where my old falling abpart 1970's antenna currently resides).

Thanks for your feedback.

Originally posted by upNdown
I'm just south of Boston and all the channels I'm after are 16-17 miles away (and all within 2 degrees).

* yellow - uhf WSBK-DT 38.1 UPN BOSTON MA 309° 17.0 39
* yellow - uhf WMFP-DT 18 SAH LAWRENCE MA FCC Ext 309° 16.3 18
* yellow - uhf WFXT-DT 25.1 FOX BOSTON MA 309° 16.0 31
* yellow - uhf WGBH-DT 2.1 PBS BOSTON MA 309° 17.0 19
* yellow - uhf WGBX-DT 44.1 PBS BOSTON MA 309° 17.0 43
* yellow - uhf WBZ-DT 4.1 CBS BOSTON MA 309° 17.0 30
* yellow - uhf WCVB-DT 5.1 ABC BOSTON MA 309° 17.0 20
* yellow - uhf WHDH-DT 7.1 NBC BOSTON MA 311° 16.1 42


I guess I'm going to order a DB4 from Antennas direct. My only question is, is this 'medium range' antenna too much for me? Am I likely to experience this 'multi-path' I read so much about? I just don't feel safe getting a short range antenna at this distance. It will be mounted on a mast on the chimney atop the 2nd floor of my home (where my old falling abpart 1970's antenna currently resides).

Thanks for your feedback.

The DB4 should be more than enough from that distance. I have it at 36 miles , and it's the best antenna for the price and size..only 29" x 16".

Originally posted by blackngold19
The DB4 should be more than enough from that distance. I have it at 36 miles , and it's the best antenna for the price and size..only 29" x 16".

Right. My question is, will it be TOO MUCH antenna? Isn't that how you get multi-path problems?

Originally posted by upNdown
Right. My question is, will it be TOO MUCH antenna? Isn't that how you get multi-path problems?

No. Multipath problems actually come from having too little antenna.

The higher the gain of an antenna, the more directional it is. The more directional the antenna, the less likely it is to pick up bounced signals on the side lobes. The less side lobe signals it picks up, the less likely a multipath signal will be strong enough to interfere with reception.

Attenuators work in multipath environments not because they reduce the capabilities of the antenna, but because they reduce the strength of all signals reaching your receiver. When you listen to a complicated piece of music, you can turn the volume down low enough so you can only hear the primary instruments. When you turn it up, even the faint instruments become audible. Essentially, an attenuator turns down the volume, hopefully leaving the one crisp, clear signal you actually want while "muting" the quieter reflected signals.

There is no such thing as too much antenna.

There is, however, such a thing as too much amplification. Preamplifiers (and amplifiers, an inferior version of the preamp because it seeks to amplify the signal only after it has suffered transmission line loss) work in reverse of an attenuator. They turn the volume up. Turn up the volume enough and even the weakest reflection becomes strong enough to confuse the receiver. However, when background "hiss" is almost equal to the strength of the received signal, there is no alternative - more antenna or more amplification is necessary to get a digital lock.

Originally posted by upNdown
Right. My question is, will it be TOO MUCH antenna? Isn't that how you get multi-path problems?

The DB4 is the smallest you could possibly go with outside, aside from a SS which costs more and has less gain. The DB4 is a very good antenna to start with. Let me know how it works out..:)

At 45mi, you are really asking alot of that antenna. Can you have a small outside antenna?



No I cannot have an outdoor so how can i improve my silver sensor if any way to get a higher signal.

Originally posted by sf49ersnfl
At 45mi, you are really asking alot of that antenna. Can you have a small outside antenna?



No I cannot have an outdoor so how can i improve my silver sensor if any way to get a higher signal. You can't.

However, you can improve your attitude when asking for help.

Originally posted by sf49ersnfl
At 45mi, you are really asking alot of that antenna. Can you have a small outside antenna?



No I cannot have an outdoor so how can i improve my silver sensor if any way to get a higher signal.

Outdoor is best. Next best would be a large antenna such as the 4228 in your attic. Next would be a medium outdoor antenna but used indoors and pointed out a window in the direction of the tower (DB4, 4221). After that, it'd be to try moving around with the silver sensor in the room or even move it to a higher point in the house if possible.

Originally posted by tbb1226
You can't.

However, you can improve your attitude when asking for help.

First of all, I don't think his attitude was a problem. There are a lot of newbies this time of year (post-Christmas), and it's not wrong for them to ask questions. His answer was short, but not rude. It did not, for example say, "I can't put it outside, you *****. Why don't you stick your antenna where the *******************?"

Secondly, is sf49ersnfl sure he can't put up an outside antenna? Read: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html for an explanation of what rules and restrictions on outdoor antennas are applicable.

Third, a preamplifier might help, though it is doubtful. sf49ersnfl should check for snow on analog UHF stations and if he has a lot, an amplifier is a good idea. If, instead, he has ghosting, he shouldn't bother with an amplifier. If there's some ghosting, a variable attenuator from Radio Shack could greatly improve reception.

Finally, placement is a key component of reception quality. The Silver Sensor should be placed as high in the house as possible, as near to the side of the house where the signals are coming from. Some experimentation might be necessary.

Need help with a VHF channel... I just bought a cut channel for channel 7 ABC-DT in KC but cannot get a signal, i can get better with just a pair of rabit ears, still no lock .. only about 50%. Any ideas??? Do i need to amplify it signal?

* red - vhf KMBC-DT 9.1 ABC KANSAS CITY MO 61° 15.7 7

Originally posted by mws6468
Need help with a VHF channel... I just bought a cut channel for channel 7 ABC-DT in KC but cannot get a signal, i can get better with just a pair of rabit ears, still no lock .. only about 50%. Any ideas??? Do i need to amplify it signal?

* red - vhf KMBC-DT 9.1 ABC KANSAS CITY MO 61° 15.7 7

Give us your zip so we can assist. Also make of antenna, height, 5element or 10 elemant any tall structures between you and transmitters etc. Off hand I recheck all connection a be sure antenna is pointed properly.

I live in Alamo, CA (SF Bay area suburb) surrounded by a variety of hills about 25 miles inland (as the crow flies) from from SF. Is there any hope of getting OTA HDTV reception here? If so, what equipment? Anybody advocate multiple antennas for more gain? I saw some information recommending combining several inexspensive Radio Shack 15-2160 antennas.

Anyway, I certainly have no line of sight to anything from where I am. Should I even try?

FWIW, zipcode is 94507, street is Janis Court. Antennaweb says I just need a redzone antenna for digital.

Thanks,

Bill

Originally posted by jimc705
Give us your zip so we can assist. Also make of antenna, height, 5element or 10 elemant any tall structures between you and transmitters etc. Off hand I recheck all connection a be sure antenna is pointed properly.

ZIP 66219

It is a 5 element Delhi 5Y7S .. but i am using it inside... live in apt, no attic or roof avaliable. Second story or three, but facing SW instead of needed NE. I thought it would do better than rabbit ears.

I have a RS Blaun, then about 25' or RG6QS going to a CM combiner.

You might find more help in the OTA thread for the Bay Area:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=369015

My uneducated guess is that you could be able to get the big network signals out of SF. But over in Alamo, you might have a clearer shot at the Sacramento market signals over in Walnut Grove. They're farther away, but most of them are full-power and you may have better luck with the terrain. Good luck!

Thanks I will post over on SF BA OTA. Mount Diablo is between me and Sacramento. Do you need line of sight for digital or do signals bounce and get around obstacles?

This will probably get lost among everything else here, but here goes....

I live only 10 miles from two clusters of broadcast antennas in the Atlanta area. It seems that I can pick up everything EXCEPT WSB-DT. I have to rotate my SS2000 about 15 degrees west to pick it up, which screws up my WXIA. The antenna is pointed at 220 which should pick up everything, but to get WSB reliably it has to be around 235-240. Is is possible to put a second antenna up which is oriented in the proper direction for WSB-DT? If so, would it hurt the other channels to combine the two signals?

Any help is appreciated.

I need help choosing an antenna. I live in the Central Coast, CA and antennaweb.org says I should get at least eight OTA channels using a "violet" antenna. I am mostly interested in the major networks. Dishnetwork said they would install the antenna at no charge (Dish subscriber using a 921 receiver) but local installers say, "Don't waste your time, you won't get anything." Some folks on other forums suggested checking out this forum and trying it anyway.

So, my question, what antenna/preamps/amps will give me the best chance of getting HD reception? Zip code 93446. Rural area, lots of rolling hills but no obstructions.

tecman51....Dish Network said they would install an OTA for no charge...I find this hard to believe...but hey, if that's what they told you...who did you talk to..customer service??

I just called Dish Network and they said that theu do not install OTA antennas anymore..if they are for you do it now!

I am looking for an outdoor antenna for my house in zipcode 07055. Would the Winegard HD9095P be sufficent? I think that is the most powerful one that Winegard sells. What other equipment do I need to buy to get optimal signal? Thanks alot

Originally posted by mws6468
It is a 5 element Delhi 5Y7S .. but i am using it inside... live in apt, no attic or roof avaliable. Second story or three, but facing SW instead of needed NE. I thought it would do better than rabbit ears.


Try it direct to the tuner, for one thing. Make sure it's not anything else in your system that's causing the problem.

Try aiming the antenna in "non-intuitive" directions. Your rabbit ears are probably picking up a bounce from somewhere.

The station you're after is at full power, and they're blasting in your direction, so you should be able to get them under 'normal' conditions. Your conditions aren't normal, though, so that doesn't help too much. Try sticking it out a window (your apartment does have one of those, right?) and see if it makes a difference. Sometimes, the building has just too much reflective material to let the signal through.

Good luck!

Originally posted by dervari
Is is possible to put a second antenna up which is oriented in the proper direction for WSB-DT? If so, would it hurt the other channels to combine the two signals?


It's possible. Use a Channel Master Jointenna with the channel number for WSB-DT. It will have one input for WSB and another for "everything else." Connect them together and you're good to go.

Combining antennas pointed in different directions using a standard splitter/combiner almost never works.

Originally posted by tecman51
Dishnetwork said they would install the antenna at no charge (Dish subscriber using a 921 receiver) but local installers say, "Don't waste your time, you won't get anything." Some folks on other forums suggested checking out this forum and trying it anyway.


You probably wouldn't get anything with the antenna Dish would give you for free.

I'm one of those people who was told, "Don't waste your time, you won't get anything." I didn't listen. They were (sorta) right. And sorta wrong. You can read my story here:
http://www.geocities.com/figbert/antennasdirect91xg.html

Look around. If you can't find any antennas in your area, then you're probably out of luck. But if people have antennas up, that's usually a good sign that the signals *are* there.

Originally posted by cliftonite
I am looking for an outdoor antenna for my house in zipcode 07055. Would the Winegard HD9095P be sufficent? I think that is the most powerful one that Winegard sells. What other equipment do I need to buy to get optimal signal? Thanks alot

Golly. You're 10 miles from NYC. Yes, the 9095 is plenty. Point it in the right direction and use RG-6 cabling direct to your tuner (no diplexers, splitters, etc) and you've got a great chance of a perfect signal. You could probably get away with about 1/2 the antenna, but the 9095 isn't a bad choice.

sregener:
You probably wouldn't get anything with the antenna Dish would give you for free.

* Because of a mix up when I signed up for the HD package, Dish agreed to do the installation only (I will be providing the antenna/amps, etc.)

I'm one of those people who was told, "Don't waste your time, you won't get anything." I didn't listen. They were (sorta) right. And sorta wrong. You can read my story here:

* Good job! I enjoyed your story. Very interesting and informative.

Look around. If you can't find any antennas in your area, then you're probably out of luck. But if people have antennas up, that's usually a good sign that the signals *are* there.

* I live in a rural area so spotting "working" antennas in the area is a real chore. I still have the antenna on the roof installed by the previous owner years ago. I think he got one channel, NBC. The old, BIG satellite dish is still on the property too. Don't know what to do with it.

I just picked up the Toshiba 46 h84 and I have Direct TV. I just bought the samsung SIR ts 630 hd tuner and I need a good hd antenna. I checked web TV org and I am only 14 to 21 miles from these HD stations
Yellow
wwj-dt 62.1
wtvs-dt 43.1
wxyz-dt 41.1
wdwb-dt 21.1
wjbk-dt 2.1
wdiv-dt 4.1

Red
Wkbd-dt 50.1

I live in St. Clair Shores and I currently have an old mast antenna on my roof. I would like to mount something low profile in its place. I work at Best Buy and get a good deal on the Terk antennas, but many customers have complained about their reception. Their is also a Samsung TV 5.2 we carry but it is indoor. I would appreciate any feedback on HD antennas that work in my area

Does anyone have any experience with this fairly new OTA antenna? I am currently using a Channel Master 4228 and until recently had it mounted inside my garage rafters and was getting about a 80 - 90 % signal strength about 40 miles away from the towers in Boston. My issue is that I have just remodelled my garage and have to move the Antenna. My wife is against mounting the 4228 on the roof or outside due to asthetics, so I read up on this new antenna.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks
Chris

Originally posted by thedataman
Does anyone have any experience with this fairly new OTA antenna? I am currently using a Channel Master 4228 and until recently had it mounted inside my garage rafters and was getting about a 80 - 90 % signal strength about 40 miles away from the towers in Boston. My issue is that I have just remodelled my garage and have to move the Antenna. My wife is against mounting the 4228 on the roof or outside due to asthetics, so I read up on this new antenna.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks
Chris

At 40 miles you'll be pushing it with the squareshooter. You may not get all the stations. If you decide to give it a try get the 1000 without the amp for you may need a larger amp then what comes with the 2000. You may be able to talk her into the 4221 which is half the size of the 4228 and will outperform the sqare shooter. You will loose a few DB gain but it's still a good choice. The square shooter will not be as effective against multipath if you have that problem also. I'd tried to find a way to keep the 4228 if I were you. Maybe mount on backside of garage where it's not so noticeable. Good Luck!

Originally posted by goblue2005
I just picked up the Toshiba 46 h84 and I have Direct TV. I just bought the samsung SIR ts 630 hd tuner and I need a good hd antenna. I checked web TV org and I am only 14 to 21 miles from these HD stations
Yellow
wwj-dt 62.1
wtvs-dt 43.1
wxyz-dt 41.1
wdwb-dt 21.1
wjbk-dt 2.1
wdiv-dt 4.1

Red
Wkbd-dt 50.1

I live in St. Clair Shores and I currently have an old mast antenna on my roof. I would like to mount something low profile in its place. I work at Best Buy and get a good deal on the Terk antennas, but many customers have complained about their reception. Their is also a Samsung TV 5.2 we carry but it is indoor. I would appreciate any feedback on HD antennas that work in my area

Stay away from Terk any just about any other antenna will do. Hre are some of the best at your distance(assuming your digitals are UHF).

Channel Master 4221
Winegard PR 4440 or (squareshooter should work at your distance but not as good as the others here.)
Antennas Direct DB4 or XG42
Good Luck
http://www.warrenelectronics.com/
http://www.antennasdirect.com/MediumRangeAntennas.htm
http://www.solidsignal.com/antennas/
http://www.starkelectronic.com/allant.htm
http://search.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/nsearch?catalog=spectravox&query=antennas

If you need VHF also then look around at these sights. Most UHF's will pick up some VHF high band. Seperates are better but your close enough a good combo should work.

I would appreciate some advice from anyone as to what would be a good INDOOR antenna that will pick up HDTV. I know location is a serious variable so here is my situation:

1.6 miles from Empire State Bldg.
I live on 17th floor of high-rise in Queens, which has direct line-of-sight to the tower.
I'm 2nd apartment in from the front, approximately 50 ft.
Building is concrete/steel/brick construction.

I don't have access to the rooftop antenna unfortuneately so an indoor is my only option at this point. My television is HD-ready (Sony 34XBR960).

Thanks!

I would try a Terk tv5 or Silver sensor.

I'm sure this has been covered somewhere, but I was going to purchase a Channel Master 4228 to pick up the three DTV stations in San Angelo, TX but I just discovered that the CBS station broadcasting in vhf instead of uhf. Does this mean the 4228 will not pick it up?? Any help would be appreciated.

Originally posted by natlib
I'm sure this has been covered somewhere, but I was going to purchase a Channel Master 4228 to pick up the three DTV stations in San Angelo, TX but I just discovered that the CBS station broadcasting in vhf instead of uhf. Does this mean the 4228 will not pick it up?? Any help would be appreciated.

The 4228 has decent gain on high band vhf (7-13), performing best on the upper part of that range but it *is* a uhf antenna by design. If your vhf is 10 or higher and you're pretty close, say <30 miles away it will likely do fine.

If you have to, you can add a vhf antenna (even a homemade folded dipole will work in many cases) with a vhf/uhf diplexer. You can even use rabbit ears on your set for vhf and combine them with the feed from the 4228 (again, with a vhf /uhf diplexer). A good diplexer is the CM 0549.

How far are you from the towers? According to http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=KLST that station has an STA for .76kw. If it's at that power currently and you're any distance at all it's going to be difficult no matter what.

How sensitive is an outdoor antenna to direction? I have a 3020 that is having difficulty picking up ANY HD channels. The difference between 95 degrees and 103 degrees is miniscule on the compass, so how important is being "perfectly" aligned to a tower?
Another question. Is there any chance that I have a bad balun? As stated before, I have a batwing that is picking up decently, but the 3020 isnt picking up anything. I have tried "everything" to make this thing work, but it just wont.
BTW, I am at 36608 and between 18 and 38 miles from the towers.
Thanks,
DJ

Originally posted by goblue2005


I live in St. Clair Shores and I currently have an old mast antenna on my roof. I would like to mount something low profile in its place. I work at Best Buy and get a good deal on the Terk antennas, but many customers have complained about their reception. Their is also a Samsung TV 5.2 we carry but it is indoor. I would appreciate any feedback on HD antennas that work in my area

I have an SS-1000 with a CM7777 and get great reception in Rochester Hills for every digital channel with ONE exception and that's ch44 - CBS 62. I can't get a signal worth anything with the Square Shooter no matter where I point it. I'm assuming it's multipath and am open to ANY AND ALL suggestion on how to diagnose/remedy this (with keeping the Square Shooter...)
The analogs come in quite nice as well, with the exception of CH2, BTW

Thanks!

Originally posted by DennyH
How sensitive is an outdoor antenna to direction? I have a 3020 that is having difficulty picking up ANY HD channels. The difference between 95 degrees and 103 degrees is miniscule on the compass, so how important is being "perfectly" aligned to a tower?
Another question. Is there any chance that I have a bad balun? As stated before, I have a batwing that is picking up decently, but the 3020 isnt picking up anything. I have tried "everything" to make this thing work, but it just wont.
BTW, I am at 36608 and between 18 and 38 miles from the towers.
Thanks,
DJ

What else are you using? Preamp? How long is the cable run?
Not to offend you, but be sure you're pointing the antenna the right way. The 3020 is "swept forward" and the uhf section with the v-shaped reflector is in the front.

It's easy to switch out the balun but I doubt it's bad. RS has a good one.
Aiming is always important. However, what you are describing is not likely attributable to being only a few degrees off.

I would like to paint my Channel Master 8 bay antenna as well as rotor black so as to blend in with the landscape a little better. Does this hurt the reception quality?:confused:

What else are you using? Preamp? How long is the cable run?

I have tried it with and without the preamp. The cable run is currently about 30 ft. The cable run on the batwing is over 100 ft.
I am aiming it the way that the instructions say to do so, but in desperation I've also aimed it the other way (just to be sure). Neither worked:( .

Originally posted by Jackstraw8881
I would like to paint my Channel Master 8 bay antenna as well as rotor black so as to blend in with the landscape a little better. Does this hurt the reception quality?:confused:
I'd avoid using a paint with any metal content; other than that... it shouldn't matter.

followjoshonline.com/Albums/home_theater/images/antenna.jpg

sorry this is my first post so I can't put a fully qualified web address to display the image. You have to cut and paste it into another window.

This is my antenna. I think it is of the 80-120 in variety. I am trying to get reception in the zipcode 54494. antennaweb.org says that I should have 3 HD channels within 40 miles.

The antenna was on the house when we bought it. So I do not know the brand, nor the cabling grade. The antenna rotor does work fine and I can turn this baby 360 degrees and my signal strength stays at zero.

I do know that the cable running from the antenna to the basement is about a 50' run. Then I have a barrel connector and a 30' run to the HD STB. SIR-150.

Where would you start? Again I don't know the antenna brand (maybe you recognise it?) nor the cabling grade (does this matter largely?).

I'd check the continuity on the cable all the way through first.

A multimeter would help a lot. First disconnect it from the antenna, and disconnect it from the receiver. Then make sure the center conductor and shield are not shorted together. Now up at the antenna, connect the center conductor and shield so they are shorted together, and from the other wnd of the cable confirm that there's copntinuity between the shield and center conductor.

If that all tests out OK, you might look at the balun that's on the antenna to make sure it's good and well connected (no corrosion).

If there's a preamp up there, and it's not getting power, that's a likely spot for a problem, too. Disconnect/bypass it and see what happens.

Originally posted by sregener
Try it direct to the tuner, for one thing. Make sure it's not anything else in your system that's causing the problem.

Try aiming the antenna in "non-intuitive" directions. Your rabbit ears are probably picking up a bounce from somewhere.

The station you're after is at full power, and they're blasting in your direction, so you should be able to get them under 'normal' conditions. Your conditions aren't normal, though, so that doesn't help too much. Try sticking it out a window (your apartment does have one of those, right?) and see if it makes a difference. Sometimes, the building has just too much reflective material to let the signal through.

Good luck!

Thanks for the advise... with a lot of moving the antenna around the living room it finally started working. Got all the ABC games last weekend in HD. I think it was just luck finding a place it worked. I will try to get some pics in my profile soon.

Originally posted by gawngulfing
Where would you start? Again I don't know the antenna brand (maybe you recognise it?) nor the cabling grade (does this matter largely?).

I'd check for analog reception first. You should see something on channels 7 and 9. If you don't, or if the picture is *very* bad, you likely don't have a connection to the outlet. This happens often when people have cable. They disconnect the antenna, and then it's up to you to figure out how to get the signal to your television.

RG-59 is more lossy than RG-6, especially on higher channels. But until you've tested it with it properly hooked up, it's hard to say if it will make much of a difference.

Thanks for your help. Here is the info on the 3 dtv stations here:
yellow - uhf KIDY-DT 10.1 FOX SAN ANGELO TX 339° 14.9 miles away ltgreen - uhf KSAN-DT 16.1 NBC SAN ANGELO TX 357° 16.8 miles away
violet - vhf KLST-DT 8.1 CBS SAN ANGELO TX 3° 7.8 miles away

I am real close to the cbs station that is vhf as you can see. What do you think?
Will the CM 4228 pick up the CBS station even though its vhf????

Here is my deal: I’m located in the Greenbrier section of Chesapeake, VA. Dish Network 811 receiver. OTA locals towers at:
WVBT 296 degrees
WVEC 297
WPXV 293
WTKR 293
WTVZ 293
WHRO 293
WGNT 296
WAVY 296
All towers within 16 miles. I’m using a Channel Master 4221 on roof top. 5 ft. mast on gable puts it just about even with ridgeline. Less than 60 ft RG6 cable. There are a few tall trees across the street but it’s not what I would call dense by any means. I seem to be getting good signal strength to all stations but can’t find the one orientation to get all the channels at once, and channels that “lock in” one day are gone the next.

After hours of fine tuning Last weekend I finally locked into all of the locals on Sunday morning ( by lowering the mast below the roof ridgeline). However by Sunday evening I lost two or three and by Monday morning I lost about half of them. I tried a 6db attenuator with no result. I have noticed the signal strength meter fluctuating wildly so I was convinced it was a multipath problem. Last night I bought a Zenith Silver Sensor indoor antenna and was able to receive all the locals with minor movement of the antenna (with and without the attenuator). I still haven’t found the magic spot for the Silver Sensor to acquire all signals but can get them all with minor adjustments. The problem I have is the family members don’t seem to appreciate the piece of “modern art” (antenna) on the living room shelf so I would still like to make a roof top antenna my final solution. Do I have any hope of eliminating the multipath with the CM 4221? The folks at Domes AV said they had multipath problems when they carried the CM 4221 and now exclusively use the CM 4228. Do you all think its worth a try ? I have also read many comments on the web that the Dish 811 is very sensitive to multiparth so perhaps I’m beating a dead horse? Thanks for your insight.

Originally posted by sregener
I'd check for analog reception first. You should see something on channels 7 and 9. If you don't, or if the picture is *very* bad, you likely don't have a connection to the outlet. This happens often when people have cable. They disconnect the antenna, and then it's up to you to figure out how to get the signal to your television.


I have verified that the cable does infact go from the antenna, across the rafters of my garage, down the wall of my garage, thorugh the foundation cap and then to my TV.

One thing I didn't point out, after thought, is the coax cable runs through an opening that also contains 220 electrical wiring, cat 5, another coax, and telephone wire. Could any of these wires be causing interference and cancelling out the signal?

I'm afraid that it is something at the antenna on the roof. I can't go up there right now because we received .5 inch of ice 3 days ago and it still hasn't melted and doesn't look like it will any time soon, highs in the low 20's.

The analog signal is crap too, I did try hooking it right up to a TV and tunning in 7 and 9, nothing at all rotating the antenna 360 degrees and point it just a couple degrees east of north.

Thanks for everyones input or future suggestions.

Originally posted by gawngulfing
I'm afraid that it is something at the antenna on the roof. I can't go up there right now because we received .5 inch of ice 3 days ago and it still hasn't melted and doesn't look like it will any time soon, highs in the low 20's.


I've got the same ice everywhere. Not fun to get off the sidewalks, is it?

It probably is something with the antenna itself, if you're sure the connection is direct. The power line near the coax could create a bit of static on VHF, but not enough to wipe out the signal. Coax is shielded, though not perfectly.

The thing to do, before you go up there (if you're trying to save trips up to the antenna) is to go to Radio Shack and buy a $2 balun (balanced/unbalanced connector.) The first thing I'd do is try replacing that. I'd also check all the connectors for rust, and consider buying new coax for the outdoor portion of your run while you're at it.

Originally posted by DennyH
I have tried it with and without the preamp. The cable run is currently about 30 ft. The cable run on the batwing is over 100 ft.
I am aiming it the way that the instructions say to do so, but in desperation I've also aimed it the other way (just to be sure). Neither worked:( .

Look at your analog reception. If you have alot of ghosting that indicates multipath. Herringbone suggest FM interference. If it's just snowy than you need more gain. If your analog reception is good you have to suspect your digital tuner may be at fault or all your digitals are at very low power.

An FM trap is cheap and is worth a try. RS sells one as does Winegard.

Another cheap thing to try is a variable attenuator (available at RS). This can sometimes help if the problem is multipath.

You can also try different heights with the 3020. Higher is usually better but not always. Sometimes it also helps to tilt the antenna up about 5-10 degrees if you can. Is the "batwing" outside? What exactly is this "batwing"? It might give you some useful info if you put the 3020 in the exact location as the "batwing" so you have a valid comparision.

More info, more info, I need more info..... What preamp have you tried? Most likely with only 30 ft. of cable run you don't need one. Do you have any obstruction to line-of-sight between you and the towers? This will often cause multipath.

Originally posted by natlib
Thanks for your help. Here is the info on the 3 dtv stations here:
yellow - uhf KIDY-DT 10.1 FOX SAN ANGELO TX 339° 14.9 miles away ltgreen - uhf KSAN-DT 16.1 NBC SAN ANGELO TX 357° 16.8 miles away
violet - vhf KLST-DT 8.1 CBS SAN ANGELO TX 3° 7.8 miles away

I am real close to the cbs station that is vhf as you can see. What do you think?
Will the CM 4228 pick up the CBS station even though its vhf????

I believe the 4228 will pick up channel 8 DT 11 at that distance. I have channel 2 here 17 miles away and pick it up on a uhf no matter which way it points. They may not be at full power but being it's channel DT 11 / 8.1 You should be OK.

Originally posted by natlib
Thanks for your help. Here is the info on the 3 dtv stations here:
yellow - uhf KIDY-DT 10.1 FOX SAN ANGELO TX 339° 14.9 miles away ltgreen - uhf KSAN-DT 16.1 NBC SAN ANGELO TX 357° 16.8 miles away
violet - vhf KLST-DT 8.1 CBS SAN ANGELO TX 3° 7.8 miles away

I am real close to the cbs station that is vhf as you can see. What do you think?
Will the CM 4228 pick up the CBS station even though its vhf????

Probably. The 36dbu coverage map for the .76Kw STA still easily covers you. See http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DS596810.html

It's not a guarantee, but I'd try it. If you have to you can easily add a VHF antenna later (rabbit ears, homemade dipole) and combine it with the feed from the 4228 with a vhf/uhf diplexer such as the CM 0549.

Originally posted by rich.ssss
Here is my deal: I’m located in the Greenbrier section of Chesapeake, VA. Dish Network 811 receiver. OTA locals towers at:
WVBT 296 degrees
WVEC 297
WPXV 293
WTKR 293
WTVZ 293
WHRO 293
WGNT 296
WAVY 296
All towers within 16 miles. I’m using a Channel Master 4221 on roof top. 5 ft. mast on gable puts it just about even with ridgeline. Less than 60 ft RG6 cable. There are a few tall trees across the street but it’s not what I would call dense by any means. I seem to be getting good signal strength to all stations but can’t find the one orientation to get all the channels at once, and channels that “lock in” one day are gone the next.

After hours of fine tuning Last weekend I finally locked into all of the locals on Sunday morning ( by lowering the mast below the roof ridgeline). However by Sunday evening I lost two or three and by Monday morning I lost about half of them. I tried a 6db attenuator with no result. I have noticed the signal strength meter fluctuating wildly so I was convinced it was a multipath problem. Last night I bought a Zenith Silver Sensor indoor antenna and was able to receive all the locals with minor movement of the antenna (with and without the attenuator). I still haven’t found the magic spot for the Silver Sensor to acquire all signals but can get them all with minor adjustments. The problem I have is the family members don’t seem to appreciate the piece of “modern art” (antenna) on the living room shelf so I would still like to make a roof top antenna my final solution. Do I have any hope of eliminating the multipath with the CM 4221? The folks at Domes AV said they had multipath problems when they carried the CM 4221 and now exclusively use the CM 4228. Do you all think its worth a try ? I have also read many comments on the web that the Dish 811 is very sensitive to multiparth so perhaps I’m beating a dead horse? Thanks for your insight.

The dish 811 is actually very good with multipath compared to some STB. I personally compared it with my neighbors USDT receiver on my system and 811 did much better with multipath then the USDT. It also picked up more digitals. The 4221 has a fairly wide beamwidth. The 4228 will do much better if it's multipath. Also you need to get a little higher at least above the roof line. In your case you have too much signal which is bouncing everywhere.
If you still have a problem then you might have to get 2 UHF yagis and stack them horiz. This will make the beamwidth extremely narrow.

I have an RS bowtie for UHF and I'm having multipath issues because another house is directly in the way for reception. Can't move the house next door and there's no way to get by it. The other UHF stations come in OK. My questions are would two Yagi type UHF antennas help this out? The house next door is blocking the UHF station at 61 degrees and the other 4 UHF stations are all between 148 and 186 degrees. I wonder if the two yagis pointed in the different directions would be advantageous. I was thinking about yagis with large back to front ratios. Also, the yagi pointed to the 148 to 186 direction has to cover quite a big area. Am I better off with a smaller yagi that has wider beam width and a preamp if needed or is bigger better here? Comments please, I can tell there are a lot of very knowledgeable people on this thread.

Thanks, Watchdog

I attempted to go to radio shack and ask for a Balun without really knowing what it was myself. After the 22 year old asked every other employee, then phoned some radio shack helpline he came back to tell me, "we must be out" but had no idea what it is.

Is balun a trade name? Is there an actual part name / number for RS? how about a picture or website with a picture?

Dazed and confused....

I'm new to HD and need some help with a signal problem. I live north of Pittsburgh, PA. I live in a valley and have hills a half mile south of my house. I just installed a Radio Shack VU-190XR antenna along with an amplifier and rotor. I'm getting a strong signal from all of the stations with the exception of one. I'm having trouble with our local ABC affiliate, WTAE. The tower is approx. 53 miles to my south. The signal drops occasionally. I thought about purchasing another antenna. Perhaps a Channel Master 4228 or 4248. Which one of these do you think may be the solution to my problem? Is there another make or type of antenna I should consider? Should I try something else first? Can someone suggest some possible solutions for my problem?

Thanks for your help,

Dan

Originally posted by gawngulfing
Is balun a trade name? Is there an actual part name / number for RS? how about a picture or website with a picture?
They're common called "matching transformers." You need a 75-ohm to 300-ohm matching transformer. Someone at Radio Shack should at least be able to figure it out if you tell them you're connecting twin-lead cable to coax. If the guy at Radio Shack is still confused, go to Wal-Mart; they have them in the electronics department.

RS 15-1140 Matching transformer

http://www.radioshack.com/search.asp?find=matching+transformer&hp=search&SRC=1&image1.x=21&image1.y=39

"Balun" comes from the "BALanced" to "UNbalanced" conversion

Originally posted by dpkimmel
I'm new to HD and need some help with a signal problem. I live north of Pittsburgh, PA. I live in a valley and have hills a half mile south of my house. I just installed a Radio Shack VU-190XR antenna along with an amplifier and rotor. I'm getting a strong signal from all of the stations with the exception of one. I'm having trouble with our local ABC affiliate, WTAE. The tower is approx. 53 miles to my south. The signal drops occasionally. I thought about purchasing another antenna. Perhaps a Channel Master 4228 or 4248. Which one of these do you think may be the solution to my problem? Is there another make or type of antenna I should consider? Should I try something else first? Can someone suggest some possible solutions for my problem?

Thanks for your help,

Dan

A 4228 would be a good choice. Antennasdirect XG91 would be even better as that ABC is uhf 51 and the XG91 should do better than the 4228 in that range. The XG91 is also alot easier on your rotor. I wouldn't put an 8-bay on a rotor (I've done it and it weren't pretty during a strong windstorm). The lever arm is simply too long and the wind load too high.

Your preamp can also make a difference at that distance. You need low noise 2db or less and around 20db gain. I'd still try the antenna change first and go from there, though.

Originally posted by watchdog
I have an RS bowtie for UHF and I'm having multipath issues because another house is directly in the way for reception. Can't move the house next door and there's no way to get by it. The other UHF stations come in OK. My questions are would two Yagi type UHF antennas help this out? The house next door is blocking the UHF station at 61 degrees and the other 4 UHF stations are all between 148 and 186 degrees. I wonder if the two yagis pointed in the different directions would be advantageous. I was thinking about yagis with large back to front ratios. Also, the yagi pointed to the 148 to 186 direction has to cover quite a big area. Am I better off with a smaller yagi that has wider beam width and a preamp if needed or is bigger better here? Comments please, I can tell there are a lot of very knowledgeable people on this thread.

Thanks, Watchdog

Need to know where you are or at least how far from the towers you are and what station you're having problems with.

Also, give a rundown of your antenna type, preamp or no, installation location, and cable run length and type.

Next, it's always helpful to look at the reception of the analog equivalent station you're having trouble with and give a description of what you see, i.e. snowy, ghosty, no picture at all.

Originally posted by cpcat
Need to know where you are or at least how far from the towers you are and what station you're having problems with.

Also, give a rundown of your antenna type, preamp or no, installation location, and cable run length and type.

Next, it's always helpful to look at the reception of the analog equivalent station you're having trouble with and give a description of what you see, i.e. snowy, ghosty, no picture at all.

NW Columbus, OH have RS Uhf Bowtie, no preamp, 25 ft. of RG6, attic location (roof location not possible)

Problem stations in analog
WOSU 34 at 61 degrees and 12.4 miles ghosty
WTTE 28 at 61 degrees and 12.4 miles slightly ghostly
(61 degrees is directly thru the large house next door)

Other stations in analog
WCMH 4 at 148 degrees and 7.5 miles no problem
WBNS 10 at 148 degrees and 7.5 miles no problem
WSYX 6 at 155 degrees and 9.5 miles no problem
WWHO 53 at 186 degrees and 32.2 miles snowy

Wanting to improve reception to be able to purchase HD equipment. Just starting to look at equipment and not sure what I will get yet.

I just installed a channelmaster antenna with a rotor and Titan 2 amp, it works great (all the major networks including fox). The only problem is the wife complains about seeing the shiny metal on the antenna through the trees. Has any body painted an antenna black? does it weaken the reception? What kind of paint recc: Warren electronics mentioned possibly using automotive paint but to check with the AVS Forum first.

Originally posted by watchdog
NW Columbus, OH have RS Uhf Bowtie, no preamp, 25 ft. of RG6, attic location (roof location not possible)

Problem stations in analog
WOSU 34 at 61 degrees and 12.4 miles ghosty
WTTE 28 at 61 degrees and 12.4 miles slightly ghostly
(61 degrees is directly thru the large house next door)

Other stations in analog
WCMH 4 at 148 degrees and 7.5 miles no problem
WBNS 10 at 148 degrees and 7.5 miles no problem
WSYX 6 at 155 degrees and 9.5 miles no problem
WWHO 53 at 186 degrees and 32.2 miles snowy

Wanting to improve reception to be able to purchase HD equipment. Just starting to look at equipment and not sure what I will get yet.

Inside an attic you'll need all the antenna you can get, even close in sometimes. Be prepared to install something like a CM 4228 or Antennasdirect DB8 up there. Either will provide better gain and narrower beamwidth than what you are using currently, narrower beamwidth being the primary thing needed to reject multipath. You can't have too much antenna.

That said, I'd still try it first with what you have. You might get lucky. Your ABC is on 13 but any of the bowties should do well enough on the high vhf to bring it in. Continue to go without a preamp as that would likely make the multipath worse and 25ft of RG6 will give insignificant attenuation of the signal. A variable attenuator (available at Radio Shack) in some cases can be used to decrease the multipath signals and allow the receiver to lock to the main signal so keep that in mind as well.

Originally posted by Jackstraw8881
I just installed a channelmaster antenna with a rotor and Titan 2 amp, it works great (all the major networks including fox). The only problem is the wife complains about seeing the shiny metal on the antenna through the trees. Has any body painted an antenna black? does it weaken the reception? What kind of paint recc: Warren electronics mentioned possibly using automotive paint but to check with the AVS Forum first.

If you give it some time to weather, it won't be nearly as shiny.:)

I wouldn't paint any of the driven elements or the contacts, but I can't imagine how painting any of the reflectors/directors would matter. Some here have said to use "non-metallic paint" but I still wouldn't paint the driven element(s) or the contacts.

I've been wondering... what signal strength does it take for a digital receiver to lock on to an OTA signal and yield a picture that does not drop out? I happen to be one of the lucky ones gets a strong signal to all the major networks in Atlanta but this question crossed my mind when I was setting up my antenna and getting it aimed correctly.

What is actually going on when you have less than 100% signal strength? In other words, if you get a 90% signal strength what is lacking in your picture or sound due to the 10% loss. This question is more for educational purposes as I have no real complaints about the picture quality. Thanks in advance for your input.

Originally posted by cpcat
Inside an attic you'll need all the antenna you can get, even close in sometimes. Be prepared to install something like a CM 4228 or Antennasdirect DB8 up there. Either will provide better gain and narrower beamwidth than what you are using currently, narrower beamwidth being the primary thing needed to reject multipath. You can't have too much antenna.

That said, I'd still try it first with what you have. You might get lucky. Your ABC is on 13 but any of the bowties should do well enough on the high vhf to bring it in. Continue to go without a preamp as that would likely make the multipath worse and 25ft of RG6 will give insignificant attenuation of the signal. A variable attenuator (available at Radio Shack) in some cases can be used to decrease the multipath signals and allow the receiver to lock to the main signal so keep that in mind as well.

Thanks for the reply. Still trying to understand if I will need two UHF antennas because of the towers being at 61 degrees thru the house next door and the other towers between 148 and 186 degrees. If I need two will it reintroduce multipath because CM 4228 and the DB8 don't have as much front to back ratio as yagi type do.

Originally posted by watchdog
Thanks for the reply. Still trying to understand if I will need two UHF antennas because of the towers being at 61 degrees thru the house next door and the other towers between 148 and 186 degrees. If I need two will it reintroduce multipath because CM 4228 and the DB8 don't have as much front to back ratio as yagi type do.

Sorry, missed that part of it. The best thing would be to put a rotator up there. Another option would be two antennas on separate downleads connected to an A/B switch down by the TV. Most likely you could grab the stations within the 148-155 range with one antenna position. Not sure about the more distant station at 186. Again, the best thing is a rotator so you can position the antenna precisely.

It's also possible to combine the antennas using a combination of Channelmaster Jointenna filters, but this can get tricky when you're talking multiple channel filtering and you can't filter adjacent channels or channels too close together.

You're right about multipath being a problem, but with dissimilar antennas it has little to do with front-to-back ratio. It's all about the signal being different and arriving at different times that causes the multipath. Front-to-back ratio *can* be important when you're talking about *a single* antenna's ability to handle multipath, though.

Did I say that a rotator is the best option? Oh yea, I said that already.:D

Originally posted by gawngulfing
Is balun a trade name? Is there an actual part name / number for RS? how about a picture or website with a picture?


Catalog #: 15-1230

They call it a "matching transformer." It's not a trade name, it's the common name for it. Here's the link:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F003%5F001&product%5Fid=15%2D1230

Originally posted by philipgomez
I've been wondering... what signal strength does it take for a digital receiver to lock on to an OTA signal and yield a picture that does not drop out?

Every receiver seems to have a different signal strength meter, and what one reports doesn't match another, even for identical receivers.

In answer to your theory question, the digital signal is sent with FEC, which stands for Forward Error-Correction. It's essentially a matrixed CRC that allows the receiver to not only figure out which byte was corrupt, but also what they byte should have been.

Generically speaking, a 100% signal (assuming this is not a tuner that uses a combined dBu and quality equation) would mean that you're getting zero errors on the stream. 90% would mean that about 10% of the data received is bad. In theory, ATSC 8VSB should work when the meter reads above 50%. In practice, what often happens between 50% and 60% is that the CRC data gets fudged often enough to confuse the receiver and create macroblocking or dropouts. Some receivers manage with a 40% level, and some need 70% or more to work right.

As long as you're getting a breakup-free picture, you aren't missing anything at the 90% level.

Thanks for the reply sregener. I had no idea that there was such a thing as "Forward Error-Correction" in the digital signal. That explains why the picture stays solid with a less than a 100% signal. I've noticed on my receiver (Epson Livingstation) that right around the 50% mark seems to be the point at which a picture will hold.

Great response.

I need help. I can only get in my local cbs at 25% with a silver sensor. I was wondering will this philips indoor help my situation it has a 45db amplifier built in or perhaps another antenna I heard radio shack indoors are pretty good. Thanks in advance!

I have 2 issues:

1) Can anyone suggest a rotor that would work well to suspend a CM 4228 from the rafters in my attic?

2) My Hughes HTL-HD doesn't have a signal strength meter so I am really struggling with a lot of trial and error in setting my antenna for OTA reception. Any ideas how to solve this without breaking the bank?

~ Fred

Originally posted by RagerXS
1) Can anyone suggest a rotor that would work well to suspend a CM 4228 from the rafters in my attic?
I mounted a Channel Master 9521A on the floor of the attic, attached a mast with the CM4228 attached, and placed a piece of wood above between the rafters that the mast goes through in order to keep it straight.

http://www.2150.com/doug/images/cm4228_rotor_500x375.jpg

http://www.2150.com/doug/images/cm4228_top_500x375.jpg

Originally posted by sf49ersnfl
I need help. I can only get in my local cbs at 25% with a silver sensor. I was wondering will this philips indoor help my situation it has a 45db amplifier built in or perhaps another antenna I heard radio shack indoors are pretty good. Thanks in advance!

Need more info as to where you live zip etc. The Philips will probably do no better. The silver sensor is one of the better indoors. If theres no signal to amplify then 100db amp won't help. If you can return the Philips, if it doesn't work, you can always try. The best UHF indoor is the rat shack model here.
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=930-0998

You can also go to antennaweb.org and see what size antenna you may need. Leave your zip if you need more help.

i live between two cities and have an antenna in my attic pointed toward one, the other is 180 degerrs opposite. if i add elements in the other direction will i suffer a confused signal? I would really like to receive the other digital signals without moving the antenna. thanks

Originally posted by dswallow
I mounted a Channel Master 9521A on the floor of the attic, attached a mast with the CM4228 attached, and placed a piece of wood above between the rafters that the mast goes through in order to keep it straight.

Seems like you got way too much wood above that antenna. :D

Originally posted by cpcat
Sorry, missed that part of it. The best thing would be to put a rotator up there. Another option would be two antennas on separate downleads connected to an A/B switch down by the TV. Most likely you could grab the stations within the 148-155 range with one antenna position. Not sure about the more distant station at 186. Again, the best thing is a rotator so you can position the antenna precisely.

It's also possible to combine the antennas using a combination of Channelmaster Jointenna filters, but this can get tricky when you're talking multiple channel filtering and you can't filter adjacent channels or channels too close together.

You're right about multipath being a problem, but with dissimilar antennas it has little to do with front-to-back ratio. It's all about the signal being different and arriving at different times that causes the multipath. Front-to-back ratio *can* be important when you're talking about *a single* antenna's ability to handle multipath, though.

Did I say that a rotator is the best option? Oh yea, I said that already.:D

Thanks, cpcat.

I'll climb up into the attic this weekend and take some measurements to see if a CM 4228 and a rotor will fit between the trusses and still be able to turn.

Originally posted by RagerXS
I have 2 issues:

1) Can anyone suggest a rotor that would work well to suspend a CM 4228 from the rafters in my attic?

~ Fred

Can't think of a reason why the CM 9521 wouldn't work. You can mount it similarly to Doug's picture above or you could mount it upside down, whichever works best for you. The tab on the rotor mount is easy to cut off with a hacksaw which will allow you to slide it over the mast a little further if you need to.

Well, as little more info would help. ARe both signals UHF? VHF? What freq. are they (not the remapped channels like 7-1)? Being 180 apart, if the signal is strong a bidirectional antenna would work fine. But if you're more than 15-20 miles out it may be a problem.

In some circumstances you can join two antennas and get decent reception, not it's often not the case. The easiest option would be install a second antenna and drop a new feed and use an A/B switch if one isn't built into your receiver. Channel Master does make a product called Joint- tenna that will join two antennas but it is expensive and does have some insertion loss, not the easiest route to go.

Welcome, and give us more info...

PLEASE HELP SOMEONE

I would greatly appreciate anyones input they can give me on this topic.

I would like to pick up these stations in my area - Please lead me in the right direction on what I need to do. I will be putting an antenna on top of the dish on top of my house with probably a 2-3 foot extension pole IF it helps any. Here is what I'm working with.

* green - vhf WCFT-DT 5.1 ABC TUSCALOOSA AL 23° 21.5 5
* lt green - uhf WBRC-DT 6.1 FOX BIRMINGHAM AL 66° 49.1 50
* blue - uhf WIAT-DT 42.1 CBS BIRMINGHAM AL 66° 48.6 30
* blue - uhf WVTM-DT 13.1 NBC BIRMINGHAM AL 66° 49.3 52

Which antenna would you recommend I use to pick these stations up? I'm worried about being able to pick up the Birmingham stations without them dropping in and out.

Will a Winegard Sensar III GS-2200 work in this situation? I understand its the dish supplied with VOOM but don't want to install it and find out stations are dropping in and out. Thank you for anyone who can help or has experience with this antenna.

-Kosta

Originally posted by cpcat
Can't think of a reason why the CM 9521 wouldn't work. You can mount it similarly to Doug's picture above or you could mount it upside down, whichever works best for you. The tab on the rotor mount is easy to cut off with a hacksaw which will allow you to slide it over the mast a little further if you need to.

I thought of one problem with mounting it upside down: The rotator will rotate in the opposite direction. You'll have to subtract from 360 degrees to correct for this. For example: If rotator control reads 210 degrees, actual bearing will be 360-210=150 degrees. Another way:
Actual bearing+rotator control reading=360
If this bothers you to have to keep up with maybe you should try to find a way to mount is right-side-up.

Originally posted by cpcat
I thought of one problem with mounting it upside down: The rotator will rotate in the opposite direction. You'll have to subtract from 360 degrees to correct for this. For example: If rotator control reads 210 degrees, actual bearing will be 360-210=150 degrees. Another way:
Actual bearing+rotator control reading=360
If this bothers you to have to keep up with maybe you should try to find a way to mount is right-side-up.

If you change the red and green wire the rotor wil run backwards. That my take care of the the wrong degree reading. May be worth a try.

Man, I love this forum... Thanks, everyone. What is the best place to get a CM 9521?

~ Fred

Originally posted by KostaVan
Will a Winegard Sensar III GS-2200 work in this situation? I understand its the dish supplied with VOOM but don't want to install it and find out stations are dropping in and out. Thank you for anyone who can help or has experience with this antenna.


I strongly suspect it will not at the distances you've listed. You need a *real* antenna, and since you've got a VHF station in the mix, you need a VHF/UHF combo antenna or some combination of a VHF and a UHF antenna. Avoid anything that is small - they won't work at that distance. For UHF, consider an 8-bay model or a yagi that is longer than 80". You can look back in this thread for instructions on how to make a single-channel dipole using 300-Ohm wire that should work for the VHF station you're after.

Originally posted by RagerXS
Man, I love this forum... Thanks, everyone. What is the best place to get a CM 9521?

I've personally done business with Warren Electronics and Stark Electronics and had no problems with either. You can look them up here:

http://www.warrenelectronics.com
http://www.starkelectronic.com

Originally posted by rich.ssss
Here is my deal: I’m located in the Greenbrier section of Chesapeake, VA. Dish Network 811 receiver. OTA locals towers at:
WVBT 296 degrees
WVEC 297
WPXV 293
WTKR 293
WTVZ 293
WHRO 293
WGNT 296
WAVY 296
All towers within 16 miles. I’m using a Channel Master 4221 on roof top. 5 ft. mast on gable puts it just about even with ridgeline. Less than 60 ft RG6 cable. There are a few tall trees across the street but it’s not what I would call dense by any means. I seem to be getting good signal strength to all stations but can’t find the one orientation to get all the channels at once, and channels that “lock in” one day are gone the next.

After hours of fine tuning Last weekend I finally locked into all of the locals on Sunday morning ( by lowering the mast below the roof ridgeline). However by Sunday evening I lost two or three and by Monday morning I lost about half of them. I tried a 6db attenuator with no result. I have noticed the signal strength meter fluctuating wildly so I was convinced it was a multipath problem. Last night I bought a Zenith Silver Sensor indoor antenna and was able to receive all the locals with minor movement of the antenna (with and without the attenuator). I still haven’t found the magic spot for the Silver Sensor to acquire all signals but can get them all with minor adjustments. The problem I have is the family members don’t seem to appreciate the piece of “modern art” (antenna) on the living room shelf so I would still like to make a roof top antenna my final solution. Do I have any hope of eliminating the multipath with the CM 4221? The folks at Domes AV said they had multipath problems when they carried the CM 4221 and now exclusively use the CM 4228. Do you all think its worth a try ? I have also read many comments on the web that the Dish 811 is very sensitive to multiparth so perhaps I’m beating a dead horse? Thanks for your insight.

EUREKA!!!!!
I decided to try the small RS yagi and immediately locked into all stations except 3-1. By adding the attenuator and lowering the mast below the ridgeline so the antenna is “looking” through the roof I guess it created enough attenuation to eliminate the multipath. I now receive all the locals with good signal strength and apparent reliability. Thanks again for all of your suggestions. I have learned this stuff is much an art as a science. Bring on the Super Bowl!!!

I have a combo VHF/UHF antenna that came with my house. Probably 20 years old (judging by the rotor control it could be 30).

Radio shack advertises HD antenna, how does this differ from mine? here a picture of mine. ( I took it at night then inverted the color so it looks like an old photo but it's not)

followjoshonline.com/albums/home_theater/images/antenna.jpg

I have just bought a new balun for it, just haven't installed it yet. roof is too slippery right now.

THanks,

Originally posted by RagerXS
Man, I love this forum... Thanks, everyone. What is the best place to get a CM 9521?

~ Fred

Lowe's also has them.

Do you need a HD antenna for HD reception

Nope, it's a marketing gimmick - just need a good UHF antenna.

Originally posted by gawngulfing
I have a combo VHF/UHF antenna that came with my house. Probably 20 years old (judging by the rotor control it could be 30).

Radio shack advertises HD antenna, how does this differ from mine? here a picture of mine. ( I took it at night then inverted the color so it looks like an old photo but it's not)

followjoshonline.com/albums/home_theater/images/antenna.jpg

I have just bought a new balun for it, just haven't installed it yet. roof is too slippery right now.

THanks,

No difference. A good analog antenna will be a good digital one. Digital is prone to the "cliff effect" however so instead of poor reception you often get nothing at all. If that antenna worked well for you in the past and you were able to receive relatively snow-free and ghost-free reception it will most likely work well for digital. Depending on your local offerings, you may need both vhf and uhf for digital as well. Go to http://www.tvradioworld.com/region1/wi/ for info on your local stations. Click on the analog equivalent's "complete fcc data" and it will give both analog and digital info.

The biggest problem with very old antennas is that they were designed with higher UHF frequencies in mind -- frequencies no longer used for UHF television. So there might be something to be gained by replacing it, but technically there's nothing special about an antenna labeled "HD" and one not labeled "HD."

While playing around with my rotator tonight, I noticed a couple of new things out of the Springfield market: First of all, WGGB-DT was coming in strongly at my house, This was the first time that I have seen their signal in West Hartford, and, while the programming was still SD, the signal strength was excellent. It looks as if they may have increased their operating power substantially: I wonder if a conversion to HDTV programming is in the works, too?

WWLP-DT seems to have changed their PSIP information as they no longer remap to 22-1 and 22-2. They come in at my house, on my LG tuner as 11-2 and 11-3. I would guess that it is a temporary issue, but I also wonder if WWLP -DT has increased their transmitting power at the same time, and if the two issues are somehow related.

Originally posted by cgorra
While playing around with my rotator tonight, I noticed a couple of new things out of the Springfield market: First of all, WGGB-DT was coming in strongly at my house, This was the first time that I have seen their signal in West Hartford, and, while the programming was still SD, the signal strength was excellent. It looks as if they may have increased their operating power substantially: I wonder if a conversion to HDTV programming is in the works, too?

More likely, you were experiencing a tropospheric ducting event. See if that signal still looks as good this afternoon.

On occasion, I've gotten UHF digital locks from 250+ miles away, from low-powered stations. This is, however, the exception and definitely not the rule.

I have an outdoor antenna and a Sony KD34XBR2. This combination is sufficient to get me about 20 digital/HDTV channels in Los Angeles.

Video is reasonably reliable on the stations I watch, but the audio on Dolby signals is driving me nuts. On some, but not all, stations the signal will become "unlocked" for a period of 2-3 seconds and I lose audio while the Dolby decoder in my receiver tries to figure out how to decode the signal (at least this is what I think is going on). This can happen several times during a half hour program (ABC seems to be the worst offender here.)

I have a choice of using the RCA audio inputs or an optical input. It has become so irritating that I am using the RCA inputs almost all the time. Of course, the cost of this choice is that I lose Dolby decoding.

I brought up the signal strength display on the Sony and watched it carefully for a while. Signal strength is generally about 75%-80%. There is some slight variability as I watch the display on some channels, maybe about 2%-3%. The audio dropouts seem to coincide with momentary drops in signal strength.

I'm thinking that if I could get a small to moderate boost in signal strength, I might be able to maintain the lock for the Dolby signal.

Modifying the outdoor antenna is not an option. I'm hoping that an indoor antenna amplifier might give me the boost I need.

1. Does my analysis make sense?
2. What are the odds that my proposed solution will work?
3. Can anyone suggest an indoor amplifier that would work?

Thanks,

Burt

I need some advice. I have the 8 bow tie antenna CM4228 in my attic right now. Most of the time I get pretty good results with it. My signal meter does bounce around quite a bit and from time to time I get dropouts. I suspect it is due to multipath issues. I don't want a large antenna outside on my roof. My question is, do you think a variable attenuator will help or looking at where my dish is mounted a clip on (Terk) antenna would line up nicely toward the tower. Should I try one of those?? I have had very little luck with Terk products in the past. I am only 11 miles from the tower. Do you think the clip on outside would do better than the CM4228 in the attic?? The antennuator could be an inexpensive test too?? Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks

try the attenuator forget about the clip on Terk. good luck!

Originally posted by cmk
.... Do you think the clip on outside would do better than the CM4228 in the attic??
Thanks

A Winegard SS2000 outside will get you more signal than a CM4228 inside. It is small and looks good (well OK) to the wife.

Anything outside is better than an attic antenna.

Bob C

Originally posted by bobchase
Anything outside is better than an attic antenna.
My CM4228 in the attic works better than my SS-1000 (on or off a CM7777 preamp) outside. And I'm clear line of sight to the towers -- mostly over water, so very little in the way of obstructions. The SS-2000 is just an SS-1000 with a preamp.

Anyway, I really wanted to say in regard to your statement that I quoted...

Ahem, "Terk Clip-on". :D

Originally posted by cmk
I need some advice. I have the 8 bow tie antenna CM4228 in my attic right now. Most of the time I get pretty good results with it. My signal meter does bounce around quite a bit and from time to time I get dropouts. I suspect it is due to multipath issues. I don't want a large antenna outside on my roof. My question is, do you think a variable attenuator will help or looking at where my dish is mounted a clip on (Terk) antenna would line up nicely toward the tower. Should I try one of those?? I have had very little luck with Terk products in the past. I am only 11 miles from the tower. Do you think the clip on outside would do better than the CM4228 in the attic?? The antennuator could be an inexpensive test too?? Let me know your thoughts.
I'd try the attenuator first, and be prepared to put a Square Shooter outside. It's a decent antenna for anything within 20-30 miles, and at 16"x16"x4" and using a standard satellite dish mount, it's really not objectionable.

The Terk clip-on will mostly be useless except in the very best reception conditions.

Is it possible for an antenna to "go bad". I've written a couple times about my combo UHF/VHF antenna and getting no signal. I know it's not the cable. I however do not know about the balun yet. Just wondering if it is a possibility.

THanks

Originally posted by gawngulfing
Is it possible for an antenna to "go bad". I've written a couple times about my combo UHF/VHF antenna and getting no signal. I know it's not the cable. I however do not know about the balun yet. Just wondering if it is a possibility.

THanks

Possible but unlikely. I'd try the balun first. What antenna and where are you located? any mountains or buildings in the way? I have a Winegard HD 7084 in Morristown TN and get reliable digitals out to 70 miles. If you are closer then that on an equal gain antenna with no major obstructions you should be able to do about the same. I'm not using an amp and have about 40 feet of RG6 to roof mounted tripod. If you are very close in multipath can kill digitals all together. Are you getting any analog. Combos have a fairly wide beamwidth my is about 30+ degrees which works great for me. I have stations that far apart and still get them all.

Are you going directly from antenna to TV without any amps ,splitters or anything in the feed line? If so try and remove or if possible make another RG 6 run seperate and see what happens. Can you get a freinds antenna to try? Antennas Direct will let you but and antenna and try it. If you don't get anything you can return for a full refund if all else fails.

One other thing to check. Is TV programmed properly for off air and not set up for cable? If using a STB for digitals be sure using the correct input on TV Vid 1 , vid 2 etc. Some HDTV's have to have input set to DTV (ATSC) be sure this is set correctly through menus. Good Luck.

Originally posted by gawngulfing
I have a combo VHF/UHF antenna that came with my house. Probably 20 years old (judging by the rotor control it could be 30).

Radio shack advertises HD antenna, how does this differ from mine? here a picture of mine. ( I took it at night then inverted the color so it looks like an old photo but it's not)

followjoshonline.com/albums/home_theater/images/antenna.jpg

I have just bought a new balun for it, just haven't installed it yet. roof is too slippery right now.

THanks,

I did not see this before. Looks like you are fairly close to Green Bay , Eau Claire, Milwaukee and Madison. You should be able to pull from one or more of these markets. A new antenna will do a better job then and 20 year lod setting out in the weather for years. With an antenna that old a wire could be broke at the antenna could've been lightning fused etc... . I'd get a good new antenna before going up there. I'd only make one trip if possible including a new CM 9521a rotor (about $75) See what antennaweb.org says you can get and by a new antenna. If you only need UHF you can get a good new one for less then $75 especially since you already have the mast and mount. Good combo about $100 to $180 if you want analog and VHF. As high as that antenna is you should be getting some kind of signal. I'd almost gurantee a broken or corroded connection at the antenna. I'd also make a new run of RG6. One trip and done if I was to do it. Good Luck.

Originally posted by dswallow
My CM4228 in the attic works better than my SS-1000 (on or off a CM7777 preamp) outside. And I'm clear line of sight to the towers -- mostly over water, so very little in the way of obstructions. The SS-2000 is just an SS-1000 with a preamp.

Anyway, I really wanted to say in regard to your statement that I quoted...

Ahem, "Terk Clip-on". :D

Doug,

You are absolutely right - what in my garage is a SS-1000. Thank you for the correction.

As I'm not a big fan of Pre-Amps, that is a very big OOPS!

thanks,

Bob C

I've got an outdoor antenna that does a pretty good job pulling in 4 out of the 5 local HD's I'm hoping to get. It won't, however, get ABC and FOX simultaneoulsy. On the other hand, I've got an internal antenna (Silver Sensor) that pulls in FOX without issue, but won't get ABC (go figure!).

I'd like to combine these into 1 receiver so that I have seamless access to all the locals. How do I do this?

I've heard that I need a combiner. Do I also need equal cable runs? They're nearly equal now (30' indoor, about 25-30 on outdoor). Can I just use a splitter?

Any input is appreciated, especially the cost and best place to get necessary parts. Thanks.

Originally posted by Sport73
I've got an outdoor antenna that does a pretty good job pulling in 4 out of the 5 local HD's I'm hoping to get. It won't, however, get ABC and FOX simultaneoulsy. On the other hand, I've got an internal antenna (Silver Sensor) that pulls in FOX without issue, but won't get ABC (go figure!).

I'd like to combine these into 1 receiver so that I have seamless access to all the locals. How do I do this?

I've heard that I need a combiner. Do I also need equal cable runs? They're nearly equal now (30' indoor, about 25-30 on outdoor). Can I just use a splitter?

Any input is appreciated, especially the cost and best place to get necessary parts. Thanks.
Combining two different antennas is an art; ideally you'd want to make sure no overlapping signals existed by notching out the range of frequencies you want to come from each; depending on what you need to notch on each antenna, it can be expensive or it can be pretty cheap. For example, deivces to combine VHF and UHF from separate antennas are readily available and very cheap. But if you need UHF44 from one, and UHF 45, an adjacent channel, from another, you need a rather expensive filter to ensure the notching is clean and accurate.

In other words, you won't know if it'll work till you try, but don't count on it. You're more likely to end up with more problems, or to find that placement of each antenna can be really important in order to get all signals just right so they aren't creating more interference than they're solving.

The first thing to examine is what power, and what frequencies, and what directions/distance each station is coming from. You might find explanations for non-reception just among those -- a station you can't get may be very low power right now, or may be off in a different direction. You also need to look at the terrain between you and each; hills/mountains/tall buildings nearby all can make a difference. From that info, maybe we can offer more specific solutions.

Just a few sugestions that I have learned from OTA antennas. I have purchased the Stealth, Yagi, Motorola, and now am on my 4th antenna. I had purchased a telescoping mast (50ft) and put all of these antennas (one at a time) on top. None of them would bring in 50.1. I was beginning to think that I was the only one that was not receiving this signal. Living only 8.3 miles from the tower, I began to think. First, I hooked the last antenna inside of the house and received all of the channels so I began to search the cable. Everything fine there, so I lowered the telescoping down to 15 ft and now I am receiving all OTA channels with the last antenna that I purchased (Channel Master 4 Bow). Just to let you know that if you are not receiving the signal with OTA antenna, try lowering it first before purchasing another antenna.

Originally posted by jimc705

Are you going directly from antenna to TV without any amps ,splitters or anything in the feed line? If so try and remove or if possible make another RG 6 run seperate and see what happens. Can you get a freinds antenna to try? Antennas Direct will let you but and antenna and try it. If you don't get anything you can return for a full refund if all else fails.

One other thing to check. Is TV programmed properly for off air and not set up for cable? If using a STB for digitals be sure using the correct input on TV Vid 1 , vid 2 etc. Some HDTV's have to have input set to DTV (ATSC) be sure this is set correctly through menus. Good Luck.

Going from Antenna about 50 ft to a barrel connect to another 50 foot run to STB. For kicks and giggles I bought a set to amplified indoor antenna from walmart, to make sure it wasn't the STB. I got about 5 bars (out of a possible 15) so never got a lock on the signal but I saw something. I took it back now.

No amp, no splitter. I got on the roof to the mount (tripod) but there is no stinking way of getting to the antenna. The tripod is about 9 foot tall, with a mast and rotor with a second mast to the antenna about 13 feet or so about the roof top. I am not about to put a step ladder on the peek of my roof with the current winter conditions. So I'm not sure what to do next.

I figured with 38 miles to Wausau and 88 miles to Green Bay towers I should get something.

I think it might be hacksaw time on the mount legs go get to the antenna and then use a larger diameter pipe to couple the legs back to the mount.

I just spent $1200 on equipment for my Home theater projector, STB from Ebay, new speaker wire, and AV cables, my spending is kind of cut off for a little while, if you know what I mean. So I'm hoping to do this cheaper. I know the rotor is fine, it rotates excellently, however I think there is a short in the flat 5 connector wire when it gets wet, as I saw bare copper wire when I was on the roof.

Thanks everyone for your help

Originally posted by gawngulfing
Going from Antenna about 50 ft to a barrel connect to another 50 foot run to STB. For kicks and giggles I bought a set to amplified indoor antenna from walmart, to make sure it wasn't the STB. I got about 5 bars (out of a possible 15) so never got a lock on the signal but I saw something. I took it back now.

No amp, no splitter. I got on the roof to the mount (tripod) but there is no stinking way of getting to the antenna. The tripod is about 9 foot tall, with a mast and rotor with a second mast to the antenna about 13 feet or so about the roof top. I am not about to put a step ladder on the peek of my roof with the current winter conditions. So I'm not sure what to do next.

I figured with 38 miles to Wausau and 88 miles to Green Bay towers I should get something.

I think it might be hacksaw time on the mount legs go get to the antenna and then use a larger diameter pipe to couple the legs back to the mount.

I just spent $1200 on equipment for my Home theater projector, STB from Ebay, new speaker wire, and AV cables, my spending is kind of cut off for a little while, if you know what I mean. So I'm hoping to do this cheaper. I know the rotor is fine, it rotates excellently, however I think there is a short in the flat 5 connector wire when it gets wet, as I saw bare copper wire when I was on the roof.

Thanks everyone for your help

I don't know what antenna you're currently using, but whatever it is it will benefit from a good low noise preamp at that distance and with 100 ft of cable run. Get a CM 7777 and put it at the base of the tripod (you'll have to splice the coax). Ideally, it would go up on the mast just underneath the
antenna but you can do that when the weather warms up. Make sure the FM trap is set to "in" and the rest of the connections/settings are set appropriately for your situation. The power supply goes inside the house next to your TV set.

My guess is you have to take it down the way it was probably put up -- detach the tripod from the roof and lower the whole thing somewhere that you can work on/check the wiring.

Originally posted by bobchase
Anything outside is better than an attic antenna.

As others have said, this is not always a true statement.

Best case (and many don't have best case), placing an antenna in an attic costs 50% of the absolute signal strength (in dBu or dBi, not on the meter.) This means that you could take the dB rating of the antenna and reduce it by 3. Then compare it to another antenna outdoors.

The SquareShooter has a gain figure of about 4db. The 4228 is roughly 13db. 10db is still much better than 4db, so placing a 4228 in your attic is going to be better by 6db, or about 4 times the signal gathering ability.

Note, however, that multipath is the #1 problem with attic environments, not absolute signal strength, so absolute gain may not be the primary factor. Still, an outdoor antenna is never guaranteed to be better than an indoor one, especially when the outdoor one's specifications are so wildly inferior to the indoor one.

Originally posted by Sport73
I'd like to combine these into 1 receiver so that I have seamless access to all the locals. How do I do this?

I've heard that I need a combiner. Do I also need equal cable runs? They're nearly equal now (30' indoor, about 25-30 on outdoor). Can I just use a splitter?

What you probably need is one of these:
http://www.channelmaster.com/Pages/TVS/Passives.htm

They have some "bleed", such that if you have a channel on one antenna that is within 2-3 channel numbers of another, it isn't likely to work. But if you have a reasonable gap between channel numbers, this is absolutely the way to go.

A common splitter is unlikely to work well. It will most likely make your reception worse. Signals won't be "in phase" unless you're very, very lucky, and even then, they're likely to only be in phase for one channel.

The cable lengths don't matter. The only time cable lengths matter is when you are combining two identical antennas pointed in exactly the same direction on the same plane. In any other configuration, the phasing won't match across the entire spectrum.

Ok, I am frustrated at trying to get OTA signals from a tower I can actually see from my deck. I am in Clayton, NC trying to get the Raleigh, NC stations. I currently have a UHF Yagi antenna (I don't remember the model), no preamp or amp, and about 70' of cable. Antennaweb says 5.3 miles to the tower. I have pointed the antenna with a compass per AW specs.

I can get CBS sometimes, FOX sometimes, ABC sometimes, etc. But nothing is ever stable. It changes night to night. I know my antenna mount is steady, but I also know I am shooting through a few trees that are 100 yards away or so. So I figured multipath would be an issue so I went with the Yagi, which I thought was more directional.

Question is, what to do? Could it be a bad ground to the antenna? Does grounding effect reception? Should I go with something like a DB4 and a preamp even this close to the towers? I am actually going to try a cheap set of rabbit ears tonight. Won't that be wonderful if it works and I went to all this trouble to install and antenna on the roof!

Thanks for any help.

Originally posted by claytonHD
Ok, I am frustrated at trying to get OTA signals from a tower I can actually see from my deck. I am in Clayton, NC trying to get the Raleigh, NC stations. I currently have a UHF Yagi antenna (I don't remember the model), no preamp or amp, and about 70' of cable. Antennaweb says 5.3 miles to the tower. I have pointed the antenna with a compass per AW specs.

I can get CBS sometimes, FOX sometimes, ABC sometimes, etc. But nothing is ever stable. It changes night to night. I know my antenna mount is steady, but I also know I am shooting through a few trees that are 100 yards away or so. So I figured multipath would be an issue so I went with the Yagi, which I thought was more directional.

Question is, what to do? Could it be a bad ground to the antenna? Does grounding effect reception? Should I go with something like a DB4 and a preamp even this close to the towers? I am actually going to try a cheap set of rabbit ears tonight. Won't that be wonderful if it works and I went to all this trouble to install and antenna on the roof!

Thanks for any help.

You may have too much antenna. Try an attenuator from Radio Shack - they do a variable version which may help. If you have a spare splitter handy you could try that first, just dividing the cable could give about 3db attenuation.

Originally posted by claytonHD
Question is, what to do? Could it be a bad ground to the antenna? Does grounding effect reception? Should I go with something like a DB4 and a preamp even this close to the towers? I am actually going to try a cheap set of rabbit ears tonight. Won't that be wonderful if it works and I went to all this trouble to install and antenna on the roof!

At your distance, a preamplifier will be the kiss of death for reception. Never, ever, ever, use a preamplifier when you're less than 10 miles from the station.

Two ideas come to mind for me. First, try pointing your antenna up. Most towers have their transmitters pretty high up on the tower, and they radiate *out* more than *down*. You might very well be in the "shadow" of the tower. In such situations, a simple bowtie antenna often works better because they aren't so fussy about up-and-down as a yagi. (Yagi's are directional in both the horizontal and vertical planes.)

The second one is to look at your analogs and make sure you've got a clean picture. At that distance, you shouldn't have any snow at all. So check for ghosting. Make sure that antenna is hooked up correctly. If you see a lot of ghosting, but everything else looks good, get an attenuator. If not, then multipath is probably not your problem.

I think you've overestimated the multipath of those trees, personally, and you may have gotten an antenna that is "too" directional. And yagis are very directional - above channel 40 or so. Below that, they often use the "corner-reflector" portion of the antenna, which is far less directional. Under channel 20, they're downright promiscuous.

[quote]The first thing to examine is what power, and what frequencies, and what directions/distance each station is coming from. You might find explanations for non-reception just among those -- a station you can't get may be very low power right now, or may be off in a different direction. You also need to look at the terrain between you and each; hills/mountains/tall buildings nearby all can make a difference. From that info, maybe we can offer more specific solutions.[\quote]

I'm only 5-25 miles away from the towers, (Wellington FL to West Palm Beach stations) but Fox and ABC appear to be in precisely opposite directions. I connected both antennas through a splitter and found that I got both Fox and ABC simultaneously, but OF COURSE CBS dropped out (it's the only VHF channel and usually the strongest of all). I suspect that this is because the Silver Sensor is actually pulling in everything with the STB tuner, but it's non-VHF. I'm going to separate them again so that I can at least get everything (if not through the same tuner). Sounds as though I'm going to have to get used to using the TV's tuner for Fox and the STB for everything else as I had it before.

The only upside is that I plan to buy a HD Tivo which I understand has 2 OTA inputs, so perhaps I can connect both and it will integrate the signals into the single box.

The HD DirecTiVo has 2 OTA tuners but only one input that is split internally. Even if if it had 2, it would be a crap shoot as to which was used when any channel was selected.

Originally posted by Sport73
I'm only 5-25 miles away from the towers, (Wellington FL to West Palm Beach stations) but Fox and ABC appear to be in precisely opposite directions. I connected both antennas through a splitter and found that I got both Fox and ABC simultaneously, but OF COURSE CBS dropped out (it's the only VHF channel and usually the strongest of all). I suspect that this is because the Silver Sensor is actually pulling in everything with the STB tuner, but it's non-VHF. I'm going to separate them again so that I can at least get everything (if not through the same tuner). Sounds as though I'm going to have to get used to using the TV's tuner for Fox and the STB for everything else as I had it before.

[/B]

The reason you're having problems is multipath generated by two antennas pointed in different directions. You can run two downleads into an A/B switch as a solution. You can also use the Jointenna product from channelmaster as a solution. Finally, a DB4 or CM 4221 on a rotor would also likely solve your problem. *Possibly* you might even pick up one of those stations through the back end of the DB4 or (or CM 4221 with screen removed).

sregener,

I thgink you may be right. I put a variable attenuator in last night and it did not help at all. So I decided to try the $8 rabbit ears from WalMart. I watched 2 hours of 24 with no breakups. I tuned to all of the digital channels that are in the same location and they all came in fine with no break ups.

I may switch out the outdoor antenna to a less directional, or I may lust keep the rabbit ears. But I will say they look a little strange in my home theater!

I need a lot of help! I am renting right now and the owners will not allow an outdoor antenna. I live between Syracuse and Utica and can receive about 12 analog stations from the two cities at my location. I am currently using an Amplified RCA indoor antenna. Unfortunately, the only digital signals I can get are ABC and WCNY. I am between 45 and 20 miles from the towers in the two cities. What can I do to improve reception? Should I change antennas, add a in-line amplifier? Please help, any recommendations? I know my set-up is not ideal. Thanks.

Originally posted by jchas41
I am between 45 and 20 miles from the towers in the two cities. What can I do to improve reception? Should I change antennas, add a in-line amplifier?

Skip the amplifier. They almost never help indoors. Also, your amplified antenna already has an amplifier in it.

I'd try a Zenith Silver Sensor antenna. They have gotten rave reviews from people who are using indoor antennas. I don't know if it'll get you anything at 45 miles, but it should be adequate for 20 miles.

Also, check this page for information on what your landlord can and can't restrict you from doing:
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

ClaytonHD,

Try the Channel Master 4 Bow Antenna and make sure that it is about roof line. You should be getting everything in fine. If not, let me know....

Anyone had any any experience or know anything about the Terk 32??? The Circuit City reviews are good, but are they real???

Any recommendations on the SS1000 Versus the CM4228?

I live in the Katy area and will install the antenna outside, but low (1st story). Fairly clean area - no close houses or dense tree interference. Will use about 100' of cable run.

I like the compactness of the square shooter, but I keep reading bigger is better. Any insight would be helpful.

The 3# series are about the only decent Terk antenna's because they are built by Winegard and put performance ahead of looks. The downside is that Winegard's own antennas and other antennas by Channel Master et. al. are considerably less costly. Antennas that look like antennas and go for competitive prices are the way to go.

Hey guys sorry to ask what may be a dumb question but i appreciate your responses. I have the Dish 811 receiver. First question is does this get OTA signals with the right antenna? Next, is whether any of you have any experience with the GE TV Max 6' antenna. Its a white bar that would be very low profile. I'm located in Tuscaloosa in a very open area. I live in a super restrictive subdivision and while i know the law allows me to put a larger antenna up, i'd rather have my neighbors' talk to my wife! Any help or suggestions would be great. Thanks in advance!!!

Quick question. I replaced the balun on my antenna (i've posted a couple times now) still no signal. Believe you me, I'm not too excited about making more trips to the roof but I have a thought.

If I move my antenna to the ground (sill about 12 feet off the ground with the mount). Will I be able to pick up a signal 40 miles away on fairly even terrain? Stinking hights....

Oh yeah.. combo antenna about 100inches in length. about 75-100 foot run to hd stb.

Thanks.

Originally posted by gawngulfing
Quick question. I replaced the balun on my antenna (i've posted a couple times now) still no signal. Believe you me, I'm not too excited about making more trips to the roof but I have a thought.

If I move my antenna to the ground (sill about 12 feet off the ground with the mount). Will I be able to pick up a signal 40 miles away on fairly even terrain? Stinking hights....

Oh yeah.. combo antenna about 100inches in length. about 75-100 foot run to hd stb.

Thanks.

I still think a good preamp would benefit you. What is your analog reception like from Wasau?

Sometimes lower is better for reception but more often higher is better. There's no way to know before you try. It would definitely give you access to the antenna which is crucial to experimentation.

Edit: Here's a link to the FCC info on the Wausau area: http://www.tvradioworld.com/region1/wi/tv_information.asp?m=wau
All your digitals are UHF as are the ones in Green Bay. 88 miles is really pushing it for UHF though. If the preamp doesn't work you may need to consider an antenna upgrade. The combo antennas typically won't perform as well on the UHF side as a dedicated UHF antenna will. The Antennasdirect XG91 is a good choice esp. if you're trying for the Green Bay stations. I can't recall if you have a rotor but you'll probably need that as well.

Finally, I'm assuming the STB you got off of ebay is a standard OTA tuner. Some satellite STB's require activation for the OTA section to work properly.

Also, if you haven't done so already, go to http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp and punch in your coordinates in decimal form for precise bearing to your towers. Aiming can be crucial which is another reason for a rotor when you're in the fringe. You'll have to go to the magnetic variation link as well. It's -4 here in KY but it should be slightly less (nearer to zero) where you are.

Originally posted by jstuck
Hey guys sorry to ask what may be a dumb question but i appreciate your responses. I have the Dish 811 receiver. First question is does this get OTA signals with the right antenna? Next, is whether any of you have any experience with the GE TV Max 6' antenna. Its a white bar that would be very low profile. I'm located in Tuscaloosa in a very open area. I live in a super restrictive subdivision and while i know the law allows me to put a larger antenna up, i'd rather have my neighbors' talk to my wife! Any help or suggestions would be great. Thanks in advance!!!

Yes it will receive OTA both digital and analog. I have an 811 also and it can be funny at times but once you get everything programmed in it will do a very good job on digitals.

As for the GE antenna can't say but most of the gimmicky antennas do not work well. If it looks like a Terk it proably is a Terk(GE branded) and they are very sub par. Give us your zip code and we can help you find an antenna which will work for you . Tuscaloosa Where? If it's AL here's your digitals you can get.

* yellow - uhf WVUA-DT 49 PAX TUSCALOO AL 05-05 322° 13.0 49
* green - vhf WCFT-DT 5.1 ABC TUSCALOOSA AL 15° 23.5 5
* lt green - uhf WBRC-DT 6.1 FOX BIRMINGHAM AL 62° 48.2 50
* blue - uhf WIAT-DT 42.1 CBS BIRMINGHAM AL 62° 47.6 30
* blue - uhf WVTM-DT 13.1 NBC BIRMINGHAM AL 62° 48.3 52
* violet - uhf WBIH-DT 29 WB SELMA AL 138° 57.8 29

Without an outdoor antenna I wouldn't hold much hope for Selma. Since you don't want an outside antenna you have 2 options.

option 1 -Get a Square shooter from Winegard and live with what you get. You'll still need a rotor or you'll only get Biringham. Channel 5 is low band VHF so it may or may not come in.

option 2 - Get a good UHF CM 4228 or DB4 from antennas direct and install in attic with a rotor. A 91xg antennas direct may be a better fit for the attic.

Here's some links to look at and get back with correct zip for me details.

http://www.antennasdirect.com/LongRangeAntennas.htm

http://www.solidsignal.com/antennas/

http://www.winegard.com/offair/squareshooter.htm

http://store.spectravox.us/hd7084p.html
This is a combo VHF/UHF may work in attic.

Look around at these sights you'll learn a lot. Also take a look here.
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/erecting_antenna.html

Originally posted by gawngulfing
Quick question. I replaced the balun on my antenna (i've posted a couple times now) still no signal. Believe you me, I'm not too excited about making more trips to the roof but I have a thought.

If I move my antenna to the ground (sill about 12 feet off the ground with the mount). Will I be able to pick up a signal 40 miles away on fairly even terrain? Stinking hights....

Oh yeah.. combo antenna about 100inches in length. about 75-100 foot run to hd stb.

Thanks.

That can only be answered by trying. Mine is about 15 feet of ground and I get 40 miles away but a lot of things to cosider. If I go to 10 feet I loose almost all but still get one or two. At least you can play with it and see if you can get anything at all.

Originally posted by jaq
Any recommendations on the SS1000 Versus the CM4228?

I live in the Katy area and will install the antenna outside, but low (1st story). Fairly clean area - no close houses or dense tree interference. Will use about 100' of cable run.

I like the compactness of the square shooter, but I keep reading bigger is better. Any insight would be helpful.

need your zip code. As a rule the 4228 will outperform the square shooter many times over.

Originally posted by natlib
Anyone had any any experience or know anything about the Terk 32??? The Circuit City reviews are good, but are they real???
Unless you are on top of transmitter let the TERK antennas alone. They are under performers. There are much better choices. Give us a zip so we can help you out.

I just rewired the rotor cable... (any one know what brand has a 5 conductor rotor wire?) and balun and RG6. Then remounted the antenna back onto the roof with a little engineering, now I can take it down whenever needed. Hopefully never again.

I'll test the signal and rotor controller tomorrow, bed time..

Hello,

I'm in what appears to be a new market for these forums, Newport, RI. We don't have our own stations, we're about 28 miles away from the Providence market. I live in a neighborhood where eyesores are not appreciated, so I'm trying to figure out of the SquareShooter is appropriate for my situation.

Newport is technically a "city," but I'm not sure if it is urban from the standpoint of antenna science. Basically every house anywhere near me is the same height as mine, 2 stories plus a half-height attic. Hills are sparse and short, not more than 200' high, and nearest one is about a mile away, but directly in the path to the stations. 95% of construction around here is wood with tar-shingled roof. As for housing density, most houses are about 20 feet away from each other side-to-side, and the transmitters are in the direction of the street, so nearest house that way is 40 feet, and same height or shorter. There are lots of trees though, mostly twice the height of the houses.

Can anyone advise whether the SS would be good for this environment - whether that hill will be a big problem - and how much amplification would be appropriate on the SS?

(note: I have searched and posted in the Providence local thread, but I seem to be the first person from Newport to post here).

Thanks!

Originally posted by avramd
Hello,

I'm in what appears to be a new market for these forums, Newport, RI. We don't have our own stations, we're about 28 miles away from the Providence market. I live in a neighborhood where eyesores are not appreciated, so I'm trying to figure out of the SquareShooter is appropriate for my situation.

Newport is technically a "city," but I'm not sure if it is urban from the standpoint of antenna science. Basically every house anywhere near me is the same height as mine, 2 stories plus a half-height attic. Hills are sparse and short, not more than 200' high, and nearest one is about a mile away, but directly in the path to the stations. 95% of construction around here is wood with tar-shingled roof. As for housing density, most houses are about 20 feet away from each other side-to-side, and the transmitters are in the direction of the street, so nearest house that way is 40 feet, and same height or shorter. There are lots of trees though, mostly twice the height of the houses.

Can anyone advise whether the SS would be good for this environment - whether that hill will be a big problem - and how much amplification would be appropriate on the SS?

(note: I have searched and posted in the Providence local thread, but I seem to be the first person from Newport to post here).

Thanks!
Here's a little info on the effects of nearby structures: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html

The trees may complicate things, otherwise if your stations are broadcasting with a reasonably high power level (i.e.; not putting out less power than a 100 watt light bulb), <30 miles will be just fine with the SS1000. As long as you are placing it outside as high as you can, I would expect it would work. You should only need to worry about a preamp if you have a lengthy cabling run and/or will be splitting the signal several times.

But it probably won't work too well placed in the attic.

I'm a bit over 30 miles from the NYC transmitters, though have no obstructions like trees or other homes, and the SS1000 works here well. It was noticably less capable of receiving everything when installed in the attic.

With most things about antennas, you won't really know until you try or unless you happen to spot a neighbor already using it and find it works for them.

I agree with Doug. It will have to be outside and high. Sounds like a baseball pitcher. I'd get the 1000 for if you find you do need an amp then you get go as big as you need. 30 miles over relatively flat land shouldn't be to big a problem. Good Luck.

Originally posted by gawngulfing
I just rewired the rotor cable... (any one know what brand has a 5 conductor rotor wire?) and balun and RG6. Then remounted the antenna back onto the roof with a little engineering, now I can take it down whenever needed. Hopefully never again.

I'll test the signal and rotor controller tomorrow, bed time..

CDE made 5 wire rotors around late 70's. They were very good units. Made them for very heavy antennas. I do not know if they are still in business. Thay also made electronic parts. Made in USA! don't hear that much anymore.

I thnink a lot of ham radio user antennas had 5 wire rotors so they may not be the only manfacturer. I worked for an electronic wholesaler and we sold a few of them. They weren't cheap but never had a return or complaint. They were extremely precise for the 70's. May be way they need 2 extra wires.

Hello all,

I live in southwest Florida and would like to receive the FOX HD signal over-the-air. Here's the FCC map for coverage of this tower: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT593967.html (I'm a little south of Bonita Springs in North Naples).

I live in a condominium association, so any antenna options outside are pretty much out of the question. However, our condominiums are 2 story and I'm upstairs, so I might be able to mount something in the attic. Any suggestions for an antenna, specifically to pick up WFTX FOX HD? I've been looking at some Wingard antennas like the SquareShooter but think 40 miles might be a little much for it.

Any feedback or tips are greatly appreciated!

Obsidian, There are numerous links which explain that it is illegal for an owner's association (or anyone else) to prevent you from putting up an antenna to receive public video broadcasts. The only stipulation is that it has to be necessary, in other words, if your reception is fine without it then you don't need it. But if you reception isn't good w/ the attic antenna, then go for the roof.

Originally posted by obsidian
Hello all,

I live in southwest Florida and would like to receive the FOX HD signal over-the-air. Here's the FCC map for coverage of this tower: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT593967.html (I'm a little south of Bonita Springs in North Naples).

I live in a condominium association, so any antenna options outside are pretty much out of the question. However, our condominiums are 2 story and I'm upstairs, so I might be able to mount something in the attic. Any suggestions for an antenna, specifically to pick up WFTX FOX HD? I've been looking at some Wingard antennas like the SquareShooter but think 40 miles might be a little much for it.

Any feedback or tips are greatly appreciated!

I personally go with a antennas direct 91xg. It's a fairly small UHF yagi at channel 35 it should perform well. It is extremely directional which will help any multipath problems caused by placing in the attic. You can try it out and return for a full refund if it doesn't work. It should be an easier antenna to place in an attic.

The only other antenna I think will work in the attic (at your distance) is a Channel Master 4228 or antennas direct DB8. The DB 8 has a little better gain and again a refund if it doesn't work. However the CM is about half the price. You may want a rotor if you want stations more then 20 degree beamwidth for that is the max beamwidth of these antennas. They fall off rapidly beyond the 20 degrees.

If one of these don't get it you are finished. It's outside or none. outside the 91xg will pick up reliable digitals further then 70 miles. Mine does and over some fairly large mountains. Good Luck.

http://www.antennasdirect.com/LongRangeAntennas.htm
http://www.solidsignal.com/antennas/

Originally posted by jaq
Any recommendations on the SS1000 Versus the CM4228?

I live in the Katy area and will install the antenna outside, but low (1st story). Fairly clean area - no close houses or dense tree interference. Will use about 100' of cable run.

I like the compactness of the square shooter, but I keep reading bigger is better. Any insight would be helpful.

If that is Katy, TX than give me a call. I will be in the station Thurs

Bob Chase
KHWB-TV
713-435-2860

I can't seem to find any discussions here about different types & styles of mounting brackets, and where to get them.

My situation is a little unusual - There is less obstruction from the edge of my roof than from the peak, so a chimney, tripod, or peak mount will put me behind a tree.

I don't have a tall enough eave to do a strong eave mount, and unfortunately, my eave extends more than 12" past the outer wall. 12" is the biggest wall stand-off mast bracket that I could find (Radio Shack had it).

So, I either need a tripod mount that can have adjustable lengths, and thus be vertical from just one side of my roof, a special type of mount I've never heard of that is designed to be on an angle, or a standoff wall mount that is good for >14".

Sorry if this is the wrong place for this, please point me the right way if so... I did search the reception hardware forum.

Radio Shack has several varieties.

I've gone through all of RS's mounts. None of them work for me. Their stand-off wall mounts don't reach past my eave. Chimeny is obstructed, as is eave peak.

Originally posted by avramd
I've gone through all of RS's mounts. None of them work for me. Their stand-off wall mounts don't reach past my eave. Chimeny is obstructed, as is eave peak.

Look here: http://www.tvantenna.com/products/tvreception/mounting/wallbrackets.html

Also, the Channel Master 9036 is 18 inches. It's available from starkelectronics.com.
http://www.starkelectronic.com/cmmatv.htm#hard
The next post is a pic of my mount. I used a CM 30 ft. telescoping mast and installed it upside down (available at Lowe's).

Here's my ground mount:
My eave is 17 inches and I used the CM 9036.

OK. Thanks to everyone that has lended me their suggestions thus far. I have a combo antenna about a 135 foot run ( i know this better now).

I just rewired the rotor, works great. I just ran new RG6 STB to Antenna and a new Balun at the antenna.

Still no signal. When I had the antenna down I noticed one of the tines, don't know the real term, had been cable tied down to the rest of the antenna. I am willing to conclude that my antenna is crap.

This means, I need to look at my options. I have read many posts now about suggestions of CM4228 and and antennas direct 91XG. I've seen suggestions of the CM 7777 amp but I seem only to find CM 7775 to buy online. All my local digitals are UHF, non are VHF. I have two major sources for reception. Wausau WI (39 miles) and Green Bay WI (89 miles). Green Bay has 5 digital stations where wausau only has 2 and GB tower is putting out 1000 Kwz.

What setup would you suggest to attempt to pull GB from my house. Quite flat terrain inbetween. Antenna is about 35 feet of the ground. I have about 135 feet of cable from antenna to STB.

Lastly, my rotor is a 5 conductor wire (1 silver, 4 copper). Any idea where I can get more wire for this? Or can someone suggest a rotor that will work and not break the bank?

Thanks. I'd love it if I could stay below $150 for antenna and amp and I know rotor would really be pushing it.

Originally posted by gawngulfing
OK. Thanks to everyone that has lended me their suggestions thus far. I have a combo antenna about a 135 foot run ( i know this better now).

I just rewired the rotor, works great. I just ran new RG6 STB to Antenna and a new Balun at the antenna.

Still no signal. When I had the antenna down I noticed one of the tines, don't know the real term, had been cable tied down to the rest of the antenna. I am willing to conclude that my antenna is crap.

This means, I need to look at my options. I have read many posts now about suggestions of CM4228 and and antennas direct 91XG. I've seen suggestions of the CM 7777 amp but I seem only to find CM 7775 to buy online. All my local digitals are UHF, non are VHF. I have two major sources for reception. Wausau WI (39 miles) and Green Bay WI (89 miles). Green Bay has 5 digital stations where wausau only has 2 and GB tower is putting out 1000 Kwz.

What setup would you suggest to attempt to pull GB from my house. Quite flat terrain inbetween. Antenna is about 35 feet of the ground. I have about 135 feet of cable from antenna to STB.

Lastly, my rotor is a 5 conductor wire (1 silver, 4 copper). Any idea where I can get more wire for this? Or can someone suggest a rotor that will work and not break the bank?

Thanks. I'd love it if I could stay below $150 for antenna and amp and I know rotor would really be pushing it.

CM7777: http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/7777.htm
CM4228: http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4228.htm
CM9521A: http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/9521A.htm

There's nothing really special about the cable for your existing rotator; any 5-conductor cable that's maybe 22ga or bigger could be used. I'd expect Home Depot would have something. Stranded conductor would be better, but thermostat cable would work -- it's usually 5 conductors, though solid conductor.

Originally posted by gawngulfing
OK. Thanks to everyone that has lended me their suggestions thus far. I have a combo antenna about a 135 foot run ( i know this better now).

I just rewired the rotor, works great. I just ran new RG6 STB to Antenna and a new Balun at the antenna.

Still no signal. When I had the antenna down I noticed one of the tines, don't know the real term, had been cable tied down to the rest of the antenna. I am willing to conclude that my antenna is crap.

This means, I need to look at my options. I have read many posts now about suggestions of CM4228 and and antennas direct 91XG. I've seen suggestions of the CM 7777 amp but I seem only to find CM 7775 to buy online. All my local digitals are UHF, non are VHF. I have two major sources for reception. Wausau WI (39 miles) and Green Bay WI (89 miles). Green Bay has 5 digital stations where wausau only has 2 and GB tower is putting out 1000 Kwz.

What setup would you suggest to attempt to pull GB from my house. Quite flat terrain inbetween. Antenna is about 35 feet of the ground. I have about 135 feet of cable from antenna to STB.

Lastly, my rotor is a 5 conductor wire (1 silver, 4 copper). Any idea where I can get more wire for this? Or can someone suggest a rotor that will work and not break the bank?

Thanks. I'd love it if I could stay below $150 for antenna and amp and I know rotor would really be pushing it.

The CM 7777 is also available at SolidSignal.com. The difference is the 7777 has a vhf section which may be smart to have as some of your stations may switch in the future. The performance on UHF is the same.

The XG91 would be my recc. as I said. I'd stay away from the 4228 if you plan on a rotor. It's heavy and too much wind load for the CM rotor.

You'll only need 3 conductor wire with the CM rotor (rotor available at Lowe's, but I think they have only 50 ft. lengths of the wire so you'll have to order it online). Again, Solidsignal, Stark, Warren, etc. You have to be careful about using too small of guage especially where it's cold (like in Wisconsin). The CM wire is 20 g I think. Phone wire is too small, I'm not sure about thermostat wire.

I go with the 91xg. I believe it has a little better long distance performance then the 4228 not to metion a lot lighter. Cost delivered around $90. I'd also get the 7777 amp for you may want or need to add VHF later and a flip of the switch your ready, about $60. As for the rotor new 9521a Channel Master will run about $80 plus wire right at $100. The advatage of the new rotor is it's digital and can remeber where you stations are and be programmed to recall them. It's also infared remote so you don't need to get up and turn the antenna. However if you are only going to have 2 positions to remeber you'll probably be staying on the Green Bay stations for the Wausau are probably the same networks.
Good Luck antennasdirect.com for 91xg. any of the others CP metioned for rotor or amp.

Originally posted by gawngulfing
What setup would you suggest to attempt to pull GB from my house.

At 90 miles, you're pushing the limits of UHF signal propagation. Even over flat terrain. If you haven't read my story (and you probably have) I'd suggest you read it at:
http://www.geocities.com/figbert/antennasdirect91xg.html

You're going to be somewhat dependent on things you have no control over. Things like weather. Heat. Obstructions (leaves) at the horizon. All of these are going to make or break you, and what works one day may not work the next. I get many stations at 75 miles, with no line-of-sight, but there are nights when they breakup every few minutes and I lose signal lock for up to 30 seconds at a time. Followed by 5-10 minutes of perfect signal, then another loss. During sports, this is somewhat acceptable. During a sitcom or drama, it's not. Then, there are days where I can point the antenna 30 degrees off the signal, and I can't get a single artifact.

To get the best reception you can, I'd strongly suggest an AntennasDirect 91XG. They have great performance across the UHF spectrum and are lightweight (8 lbs) with relatively low wind load. You probably can't buy a better long-distance UHF antenna. Add in a CM7777 preamp (don't get the 7775 as it will *block* VHF signals, which you may want if some of those stations revert to their VHF frequencies after the analog shutoff.) Try to shorten the length of your cable run. Get the antenna as high up as you can. Then cross your fingers and see what you get.

I wouldn't replace your rotor (or it's wire, for that matter) if it's working well for you. My CM9521A went bad after just 2 years (note: it did some incredible load work when I had a Winegard 8200P on it.) The remote-control option is nice, though.

I need more help please! My zip code is 13440. I am currently using a RCA 1250 amplified indoor antenna and am just barely pulling the ABC-DT (9.1) HD station at 40 miles away. I cannot get CBS or NBC at 44 miles. I am limited to an indoor antenna or a VERY discreet outdoor antenna. I am thinking of trying the Silver Sensor again or waiting for the sharpshooter to be released. Any ideas?

Originally posted by sregener
At 90 miles, you're pushing the limits of UHF signal propagation. Even over flat terrain. If you haven't read my story (and you probably have) I'd suggest you read it at:
http://www.geocities.com/figbert/antennasdirect91xg.html



Great article, found it very helpful. Thanks everyone. Looks like it's time for the 7777 and the 91XG.

sregener - Out of curiosity, and if you don't mind me asking, how much did it cost to put up the tower itself?

Thanks

Originally posted by jchas41
I am limited to an indoor antenna or a VERY discreet outdoor antenna. I am thinking of trying the Silver Sensor again or waiting for the sharpshooter to be released. Any ideas?

You could try a SquareShooter (Winegard SS-1000) which might work okay outdoors. Or you could try a DB8/DB4/DB2 indoors (they'll all work indoors, get the biggest one you can fit in your indoor location.)

Originally posted by gawngulfing
sregener - Out of curiosity, and if you don't mind me asking, how much did it cost to put up the tower itself?

Hard to say for sure, since I traded some equipment, had some equipment, and bought it used. All told, it was $900, so if you knock off the equipment I purchased, probably $700-$800. I paid $100 just for them to dig the hole (3'x3'x6') which would be a bear this time of year (I had it done before the frost.) So you could save even more if you can find one used and do a little grunt work yourself.

Originally posted by jchas41
I need more help please! My zip code is 13440. I am currently using a RCA 1250 amplified indoor antenna and am just barely pulling the ABC-DT (9.1) HD station at 40 miles away. I cannot get CBS or NBC at 44 miles. I am limited to an indoor antenna or a VERY discreet outdoor antenna. I am thinking of trying the Silver Sensor again or waiting for the sharpshooter to be released. Any ideas?

I'd go with the Winegard square shooter if you can put it outside. It's small and the WAF should be good 40 miles is about all it will do you may have to add an amp. All your digitals are UHF and less then 45 miles. Any stadard outdoor UHF antenna will get all your digitals plus some extras more then likely. UHF outdoor antennas are small and light and once install you'll barely notice it. However if you can't put anything outside this is just about the best UHF indoor and is very cheap.

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=930-0998

Square shooter see this link.
http://www.winegard.com/offair/squareshooter.htm

I think the radio shack may be special order only. 40 miles is pushing it for an indoor antenna. Good Luck.

Guys, I need help. I live in Roanoke, VA 24020 with no mountains or anything between me and the and the towers. Antenna web says i am 15 miles from the antenna's all in the same direction, yet I can't pull in anything. I cannot use an outdoor antenna because of our townhouse, so I am trying indoor antennas.
I tried the Silver Sensor and could pull in 7.1 if I held the antenna up in the air out the window (not in the direction antenna web suggested), but couldn't pull in anything else.
I just tried an amplified Radio Shack 15-1870 Indoor Signal Finder. You can rotate it around with the remote control. I can't pick up anything!!
I have a new Sony 42" HDTV built in TV that I am using. when I do channel scans, it pulls in some stations but they don't come in when I turn to those stations.
I can only assume I am doing something wrong. Any suggestions?
Thanks!!

d33bo

What is the orientation of your block of townhouses in relation to the transmiter? In other words, is the signal coming through your neighbors houses?
On which floor are you trying to site the antenna?
Do you have access to the loft space? If you can get a Radio Shack yagi or any small antenna in there you should get a better signal. Temporarily you could drop a coax from your loft to the TV and try pointing the antenna manually. When you find the best position fix it permanently - just hanging from cords is normally OK - and run the cable either outside or through the walls.

Good Luck

Originally posted by d33bo
I cannot use an outdoor antenna because of our townhouse, so I am trying indoor antennas.
...when I do channel scans, it pulls in some stations but they don't come in when I turn to those stations.
I can only assume I am doing something wrong. Any suggestions?

First, are you sure you can't put up an antenna? See:
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Second, amplification at 15 miles is never going to work. Skip anything that says "amplifier" or "amplified" on it.

If you *have* to go indoors, get the AntennasDirect DB2. It has a great reputation, and just might do the trick for you.
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/glossaryG.html#indoor

Finally, you ask what you're doing wrong. Probably using the wrong type of antenna is the only thing you're doing wrong. When you do a channel scan, the receiver probably can figure out that there's a digital signal there, but not enough to "lock on" and show you a picture.

Originally posted by Andrew_J_M
d33bo

What is the orientation of your block of townhouses in relation to the transmiter? In other words, is the signal coming through your neighbors houses?
On which floor are you trying to site the antenna?
Do you have access to the loft space? If you can get a Radio Shack yagi or any small antenna in there you should get a better signal. Temporarily you could drop a coax from your loft to the TV and try pointing the antenna manually. When you find the best position fix it permanently - just hanging from cords is normally OK - and run the cable either outside or through the walls.

Good Luck

I have to go straight through our row of townhouse. I on the east end and have to point the antenna west.
I am using it on the bottom floor.
I might be able to get to the loft space. I haven't tried it yet, but it is starting to look like I may have to try.

It sounds to me like you need to go rooftop, and the only thing stopping you from doing that is the fact that you don't own the top floor.

If I were you, I would do one of the following:

1) Try to convince an adjacent neighbor who is on the 2nd floor to let you put an antenna up on his roof.
1a) Offer to put a splitter in and send him the signal from it too, for if/when he decides to go HD

2) Threaten to put up a tower in whatever patch of grass you have usage rights too, if they don't cooperate and let you put an antenna on the roof.

In particular, everybody in your building presumably has the same lack of HD programming that you do. It must be that at least some of them would be interested in getting it, or getting it for free if the cable co. is charging too much for it. You only need one antenna to service everyone in the same general structure, there ought to be people willing to cooperate on this.

Originally posted by sregener
First, are you sure you can't put up an antenna? See:
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Second, amplification at 15 miles is never going to work. Skip anything that says "amplifier" or "amplified" on it.

If you *have* to go indoors, get the AntennasDirect DB2. It has a great reputation, and just might do the trick for you.
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/glossaryG.html#indoor

Finally, you ask what you're doing wrong. Probably using the wrong type of antenna is the only thing you're doing wrong. When you do a channel scan, the receiver probably can figure out that there's a digital signal there, but not enough to "lock on" and show you a picture.

That was interesting reading. I may be able to go with something in the patio area. The university pays for this townhouse for us, so I don't want to wrinkle any feathers. But I may look into it if the indoor stuff doesn't work.

As far as the amplification, I didn't even know this antenna had it when I picked it out at Radio Shack. It looked like the most advanced one they had in the store, so I chose it. Then I noticed that it had the amplification when I got the box, and I figured that it couldn't hurt.

I will check into that antenna DB2 as well.

Thanks for the replies so far. It is good to know that I just need the right antenna. I was getting worried that it was something else that I was totally missing.

I could get to the roof but I don't think the university is going to approve. The neighbors don't care. I have a German exchange student next door that isn't interested in TV. Also, it is a women's university (my wife works here) so HD isn't really on their list of priorities.

I may try the loft and see if that works. I thought that being 15 miles aiming accross the flattest part of town would have made this pretty easy.
I have to get FOX before the Super Bowl!!!!!

yeah, I am hearing a lot about the squareshooter. I actually was able to pull CBS 5.1 from Syracuse for a while yesterday as well, so I think I have pretty good reception considering that is 44 miles away and I have an indoor antenna! What squareshooter should I be considering, the 1000 or 2000? Thanks.

What signal strengths are best for low band and high band channels? I was told by a Comcast ER technicial that my low band signal was too high, thus corrupting my low band reception.

I am getting:

14.3 High band and
20-22.3 low band

The ER Tech stated I should be getting

11.3 - 12.5 low band and
14.4 to 16.8 high band

Then, today the line tech he ordered after 5 months of trying, told me that was not true and that I have a flat 20 Db signal and the 6412 box I have should correct the reduce the signal to the appropriate level. I get the feeling Comcast does not want to admit this is a challenge and thus I keep getting the run around. They might need to install a line filter and then an amplifer to boost the high band and that would cost them $$$.

1) What are the optimal band signal strengths?
2) What signal amplification solutions are there available?
3) How do I disputre this with Comcast?

Thanks in advance.

Hi!

Wonder if anyone can help me out with this.

I recently got myself a MyHD for my HTPC and I'm very pleased with it. I had to get a big Channel Master (3818?) antenna though for OTA HDTV as I'm pretty far out in Maryland to pick up the Washington DC based HDTV OTA stations. I mounted the antenna on my roof (ranch) and pointed it in the best direction I could figure out based on the antennaweb information about the station directions.

The signal on most of the stations that I can receive is normally at least 60% and ofter up to 90+%. I figured I had achieved success!

However..maddeningly..if it's rainy, foggy, drizzly, etc..my signal drops to almost nothing across the board.

What's going on? Do I have some sort of short in my coax cable? Is my ground setup (have ground from the antenna run from a grounding block via unsheathed copper to a grounding rod about 40 feet away) incorrect? Is this one of those "multipath" problems?

I'm stumped. Any insights would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

Originally posted by d33bo
I could get to the roof but I don't think the university is going to approve. The neighbors don't care. I have a German exchange student next door that isn't interested in TV. Also, it is a women's university (my wife works here) so HD isn't really on their list of priorities.

I may try the loft and see if that works. I thought that being 15 miles aiming accross the flattest part of town would have made this pretty easy.
I have to get FOX before the Super Bowl!!!!!

Just feel lucky that you have a chance at getting FOX, those of us here in KC dont get enough power from the local FOX to pick it up OTA :(

The more I've thought about this, I don't know how I am going to put an antenna in the loft or outside. Somehow, I have to get the wires to the TV and I can't alter the walls. I guess I am stuck with something that must stay near the TV.
So I guess I need suggestions that are better than the Silver Sensor that didn't work well or the Radio Shack model that really sucked.

Originally posted by d33bo
The more I've thought about this, I don't know how I am going to put an antenna in the loft or outside. Somehow, I have to get the wires to the TV and I can't alter the walls. I guess I am stuck with something that must stay near the TV.
So I guess I need suggestions that are better than the Silver Sensor that didn't work well or the Radio Shack model that really sucked.
You could use the same flat coax cable sold for satellite dish purposes to get through a closed window or sliding door.

Originally posted by Johnster
Hi!

Wonder if anyone can help me out with this.

I recently got myself a MyHD for my HTPC and I'm very pleased with it. I had to get a big Channel Master (3818?) antenna though for OTA HDTV as I'm pretty far out in Maryland to pick up the Washington DC based HDTV OTA stations. I mounted the antenna on my roof (ranch) and pointed it in the best direction I could figure out based on the antennaweb information about the station directions.

The signal on most of the stations that I can receive is normally at least 60% and ofter up to 90+%. I figured I had achieved success!

However..maddeningly..if it's rainy, foggy, drizzly, etc..my signal drops to almost nothing across the board.

What's going on? Do I have some sort of short in my coax cable? Is my ground setup (have ground from the antenna run from a grounding block via unsheathed copper to a grounding rod about 40 feet away) incorrect? Is this one of those "multipath" problems?

I'm stumped. Any insights would be much appreciated.
You need to adjust the antenna position while viewing each channel to find the best position. Just aiming like you have might not be the best position.

Originally posted by Johnster
Hi!

Wonder if anyone can help me out with this.

I recently got myself a MyHD for my HTPC and I'm very pleased with it. I had to get a big Channel Master (3818?) antenna though for OTA HDTV as I'm pretty far out in Maryland to pick up the Washington DC based HDTV OTA stations. I mounted the antenna on my roof (ranch) and pointed it in the best direction I could figure out based on the antennaweb information about the station directions.

The signal on most of the stations that I can receive is normally at least 60% and ofter up to 90+%. I figured I had achieved success!

However..maddeningly..if it's rainy, foggy, drizzly, etc..my signal drops to almost nothing across the board.

What's going on? Do I have some sort of short in my coax cable? Is my ground setup (have ground from the antenna run from a grounding block via unsheathed copper to a grounding rod about 40 feet away) incorrect? Is this one of those "multipath" problems?

I'm stumped. Any insights would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

All coax connections must be of the waterproof variety.Check all connections for moisture intrusion.Any moisture at all will kill UHF,especially the higher frequencies.