Originally posted by anthonymoody
jheoaustin,

My 7.1 is in the mail, supposed to arrive on the 28th. However, it won't be set up in my system until some time in January (sorry - it's killing me too!) b/c of a renovation I'm doing. I hope to be able to answer as many questions as possible then. That said, I'm not much of a multi-zone guy so I'm not sure how much help I'll be there....

TM

PS - I agree with Raz - the info may be wholly inaccurate. So far the officially published info on the 7.1 is scant. I'm guessing more will emerge at CES when these things are shipping in greater volume

Thank you for your reply. I just want to know if the volume control for both zone can be done smoothly with the remote using macro and almost at the same time. :)

Originally posted by BodegaBay
Pardon if I missed it, but was is the MSRP for the base 7.1 and each of the optional card?


I think that the base RDC-7.1 is $4000. I'm not sure about the modules but I do know that the cheapest is the FM/Am tuner - about $65 - and the most expensive is the HDMI module - several hundred $.

R

$4K? Wow -- I guess that's the cost of entry. No wonder people were buying the Onkyo NR1000 last week to use as a pre/pro.

The Onkyo has higher noise, inferior analogue circuits, no balanced outputs and no Apogee clock. So those buying the Onkyo as a Pre/Pro are not getting a very good deal (In Comparison).

Originally posted by BodegaBay
$4K? Wow -- I guess that's the cost of entry. No wonder people were buying the Onkyo NR1000 last week to use as a pre/pro.

It's all relative BodegaBay. For some, $4k is their ENTIRE home theater investment (though, honestly, it's difficult to call that a "home theater"). While others have a $4k DVD player, a $4k (or more) pre/pro, a $4k subwoofer, etc, etc, etc. The mind boggles at the prices people pay for HT gear. And all for an ever-shrinking performance difference over the next less expensive item(s).

I know the 7.1 is a superior product to the NR1000, I just didn't know to what degree. Thanks for the info Krobar.

Pepar, agreed on that everything is relative. I wasn't quite sure the price tag for the 7.1 and vs. a fully configured NR1000 -- which to some will be a bargain vs. buying separates. If the IR is $4K, then I guess I will have a harder time choosing between that and say something else like a Lexicon MC series.

The Onkyo has higher noise, inferior analogue circuits, no balanced outputs and no Apogee clock. I'll agree on no balanced outputs (not everybody needs them) and the Apogee clock (probably irrelevant if you use i.Link). What is the basis for your claim of higher noise and inferior analog circuits? I'd bet the preamp stages are identical without some evidence to the contrary. Keep in mind that the Onkyo's published S/N ratio includes the power amp so it's not an apples-apples comparison.

I am ordering mine without any video modules and I am going to wait for the new HDMI card with four ins. Does anybody know if you can use the current HDMI module without the main video module(the one with the SVHS and component in)? Any info on the price of the other modules?

These are the prices I know of, MSRP:

base + am/fm tuner + video/component module + two 7.1 analog inputs: $4900.
base + am/fm tuner + video/component module + HDMI: $5300.

R

Originally posted by krassyg
I am ordering mine without any video modules and I am going to wait for the new HDMI card with four ins. Does anybody know if you can use the current HDMI module without the main video module(the one with the SVHS and component in)? Any info on the price of the other modules?

The Japanese site clearly states you will need the base video module if you want to use any other video modules (There are no other limitations in Japan and I dont know if this applies to the US model).

Catapault,

The lower noise will occur because there is a smaller PSU and no poweramps which will mean less noise internally because of less interference and less strain on the PSU. A few people have told me the RDC has a better analogue section but yes we will need to wait for proof on that one.

Originally posted by Razvanel
base + am/fm tuner + video/component module + HDMI: $5300.



This is the configuration I ordered.

TM

Originally posted by Razvanel
These are the prices I know of, MSRP:

base + am/fm tuner + video/component module + two 7.1 analog inputs: $4900.
base + am/fm tuner + video/component module + HDMI: $5300.

R

Are 2 7.1 analog inputs standard or is there one standard plus an add on card? Just trying to gauge the price of that HDMI card. Seems like its at least 400 but more like 450-500 if the 2nd analog is an option instead of a base feature.

John

Originally posted by Krobar
The Japanese site clearly states you will need the base video module if you want to use any other video modules (There are no other limitations in Japan and I dont know if this applies to the US model).

All I need is HDMI/DVI switching, why would I need the base video module? If that is true, it kind of defeats the whole idea of the modular design. When you do the configuration wizard on their web site you can order the HDMI without the base video module; I would assume that they would tell you that you need to order the base module as well. Maybe what they mean is that you need the base video module if you want to have scaling of s-vhs and component to HDMI.

Krassyg,

There is no information out there that suggests the 7.1 converts analog video inputs into HDMI. It will convert composite and S-video to component however.

In any case, I agree with your logic - the online configurator should not allow you to select the HDMI module without the video input module if that set up is not actually available. It might be worth doing an online build that way and taking it to a dealer to see what IR says when he actually tries to order it...

TM

According to the Onkyo manual, it does convert analog video signals to HDMI to send to the monitor. However, it says the receiver won't accept audio over the HDMI inputs, just video.How to Make a Connection through the HDMI Interface

Use the HDMI cable to connect the HDMI terminals on the TX-NR1000/TX-NR5000E and on an HDMI-enabled device such as a DVD player, TV, or projector. Set HDMI to 1 or 2 in the Video Assign sub-menu according to the connected device you wish to use. In the initial settings, 1 is assigned to DVD, and 2 to Video 1.

Basically, the HDMI can transmit audio signals. However in order to playback the audio signal with the TX-NR1000/TX-NR5000E, make a separate digital connection with a DVD player or other devices, since the TX-NR1000/TX-NR5000E cannot playback any audio signals supplied from its HDMI IN 1/2 terminals.

• When other input source than 1 or 2 is selected, analog/digital audio signals and analog video signals will be converted into the HDMI format and output through the HDMI OUT terminal (In the initial settings, no audio signal is output. Appropriate setting should be made in the Audio Output Assign sub-menu).

• Analog audio signals will be output in the PCM format. Digital audio signals will be output through the HDMI OUT terminal only if the connected TV or projector can playback the digital audio signals. A TV or projector that supports PCM audio signals only, for example, cannot playback audio signals in the Dolby Digital format supplied as an input source to the TX-NR1000/TX-NR5000E. In order to properly playback the audio signals in this case, the player should be configured to output the PCM signals. When an analog audio connection is made on the TX-NR1000/TX-NR5000E, analog audio signal is output in the PCM format.

Wow. I sit corrected :) Thanks for the info catapult. I wonder what output resolution the analog video is converted to on HDMI? No mention of a scaler (or even deinterlacing) so presumably it's output at whatever the existing analog resolution is I guess.

It'll be interesting to test the video ADC's in this vs. those in a product like the iScan HD+.

TM

The box is in my hallway :)

TM

Originally posted by anthonymoody
The box is in my hallway :)

TM

How's it sound? :D

I'll tell you it's killing me! My place is an absolute mess right now (yes while I'm living there :() and I'm a little reluctant to take it out of the box! There's a ton of construction dust floating around and I'd hate to risk damaging it.

But the curiosity is killing me.

TM

I'll tell you it's killing me! My place is an absolute mess right now (yes while I'm living there ) and I'm a little reluctant to take it out of the box! There's a ton of construction dust floating around and I'd hate to risk damaging it.

Send it to my house...no construction dust. I'll be happy to check it out for you and compare it to my RDC 7.0.:)

Pilot

Originally posted by pilot20
Send it to my house...no construction dust. I'll be happy to check it out for you and compare it to my RDC 7.0.:)

Pilot

I'm next! I'm next!

Tell you what. If either of you want to swing by my place with an amp and some bookshelf speakers to confirm that it works that'd be great ;)

TM

Just a bump. I know the New Year's weekend may have been busy, but please let us know if you managed to hook it up. I'm stillnot sure if I will get this or not. I really need 3 HDMI or DVI inputs, so I might just wait until that version card is released since it does not seem to be a user servicable addition. But I would like to know if I should still keep this as the number one choice or move on to something else (like the new D1 or some other pre/pro)

I'm also curious if it has a global crossover, or possibly different settings for different speakers.

I pulled the trigger. :)

Mine should arrive next week.

Originally posted by Krobar
I pulled the trigger. :)

Mine should arrive next week.

Which modules did you choose and how much did you pay for it?

Yesterday I finally listened to the RDC-7.1 and liked it a lot.

R

Ive got base with no additional modules. I already have a Lumagen HDP for Video and I dont need any of the extra audio connections although I nearly bought the AES/EBU module incase I upgrade my computer jukebox to a better RME soundcard but after finding out the RME cards are $600 I decided not. I got a good percentage off, the American dealer I used offered a flat percentage off MSRP for all products it seems.

I have to hope that 120V->240V conversion wont be a problem :(

Originally posted by Krobar
Ive got base with no additional modules. I already have a Lumagen HDP for Video and I dont need any of the extra audio connections although I nearly bought the AES/EBU module incase I upgrade my computer jukebox to a better RME soundcard but after finding out the RME cards are $600 I decided not. I got a good percentage off, the American dealer I used offered a flat percentage off MSRP for all products it seems.

I have to hope that 120V->240V conversion wont be a problem :(

Congratulations on your purchase! The RDC-7.1 sounds fantastic, has excellent build quality and should be extremely reliable. Did you get it for 20-25% off the $4000 MSRP?

R

Thanks Raz :)

I got 20% + a little off shipping. I didnt wanna push for anymore cos as an international customer less dealers are willing to deal with me. I forget that US dealers seem to incur credit card charges on the customer (This is not normal in Europe).

upgrade my computer jukebox While I hear the Onkyo software is a bit kludgy, I'd think Net Tune would have the highest possible sound quality, similar to i.Link - no jitter, straight from ethernet into the prepro with its Apogee clock. I wonder if it can work without the Onkyo software? For example, with the Pioneer USB connection, you can tell the computer that the receiver is your sound card and use whatever playback software you want.

Yesterday I finally listened to the RDC-7.1 and liked it a lot.
Raz,

I know that you probably didn't get a chance to give it a good workout but, what did you think of the RDC-7.1 compared to your D1? Any chance that you'll change processors in the future?

Originally posted by Phil Rose
Raz,

I know that you probably didn't get a chance to give it a good workout but, what did you think of the RDC-7.1 compared to your D1? Any chance that you'll change processors in the future?

Phil,

I think that the D1 is more detailed while the RDC-7.1 sound is softer. I'll audition the RDC-7.1 again next week and I'll let you know more then.

R

For those interested, I'm sorry though not entirely surprised to have to report that my renovation is taking longer than expected. It now looks like my PJ and screen will be hung around the first week or two of February. I won't be able to hook up the rest of the components before then at the earliest. So unfortunately don't look to me for impressions any time soon.

At this rate I maybe could've waited for the D1 upgrade ;)

TM

TM,

Did your unit come with a users manual? I was curious if you'd had a chance to look it over and confirm any of the speculation about the RDC-7.1's operating modes that's been based on the Integra receiver manual? Is there a chance that you can describe how bass management is handled?

TIA
Phil

Hi Phil,

I'm mortified to tell you that I haven't opened the box yet. For all I know there's not really a 7.1 in there! Seriously though, the construction dust in my place - which is completely insidious in the way it permeates everything - has made me leary of opening it (much as I want to). Anyway, if I get brave I'll look in to those things. Strange IR has not yet posted the manual...

TM

Originally posted by anthonymoody
Hi Phil,

I'm mortified to tell you that I haven't opened the box yet. For all I know there's not really a 7.1 in there! Seriously though, the construction dust in my place - which is completely insidious in the way it permeates everything - has made me leary of opening it (much as I want to). Anyway, if I get brave I'll look in to those things. Strange IR has not yet posted the manual...

TM

Tie yourself to the mast, TM, and have someone else open the box well out of reach.

:D I guess I could always take it to a neutral environment like a clean room at a semiconductor fab and open it there. That ought to be safe :D:D:D

TM

IR should post post the manual soon, I was told by a guy there who has been reliable in the past that he would request the manual again. He informed me that they have shipped with full printed manuals from the start and hes not sure what the delay is with getting the manual in PDF.

Guys, check these pics out:

http://www.21hifi.com/newshifi/20041213/1G.jpg

http://www.21hifi.com/newshifi/20041213/1R.jpg

R

The mothership has landed.

Excellent pix Raz, thanks. Pepar does that mean what I think it means?

TM

Originally posted by anthonymoody
Excellent pix Raz, thanks. Pepar does that mean what I think it means?

TM

Yes, they are awesome pics! I thought the back of it looked like the bridge of the NCC-1701D.

I thought maybe UPS had paid you a visit :)

TM

Originally posted by anthonymoody
I thought maybe UPS had paid you a visit :)

TM

That would have meant that I had kept it a secret that I had ordered one, and I'm terrible at keeping a secret. Having just bought an RDC-7, it's going to be at least several years before I even think about upgrading. I'll be living vicariously through you and the other "early adopters."

I was looking at all the available options a minute ago and thought of another one that would be useful (Apart from AC3-RF :) ). A card with 4 balanced outputs assignable to any zone would be brilliant, afterall it is the remote zones that would benefit from the long low noise cable lengths possible with XLR.

Pepar,

Yeah I recalled you'd recently gotten your 7 which is why a 7.1 purchase by you would've been quite a surprise :)

Krobar,

I agree too - that's an interesting point and an idea which seemingly wouldn't cost too much to implement.

TM

Well, I've picked up my RDC-7.1 this afternoon. I got the base unit + 3 modules: the AM/FM tuner, the dual 7.1 multichannel input, and the s-video/component video card. The RDC-7.1 replaced an Anthem D1. Before the Anthem I had an Integra Research RDC-7.

If you have any questions I'll be happy to answer them.

R

Congratulations! Would love to hear how the 7.1 sounds compared to the 7. How did your Anthem compare to the 7?

Raz,

I have got to hear what made you go from the D1 to a 7.1. I ahve not heard the D1 yet but Anthems reputation and all the things I have read about this unit would make one think this is not a unit to be replaced anytime soon!

Just curious,

Gypsy

Originally posted by Warrenbonz
Congratulations! Would love to hear how the 7.1 sounds compared to the 7. How did your Anthem compare to the 7?

So far I've only listened to a few CD's. In my opinion in stereo the RDC-7.1 sounds better than both the RDC-7 and the D1. I always thought that the RDC-7 had a compressed midrange, I cannot hear any compression with the RDC-7.1. The D1 was very detailed and at times its sound was too bright and even "thin". The RDC-7.1's sound is softer, richer, with a deeper soundstage. I'm very impressed.

R

Originally posted by jamxc
Raz,

I have got to hear what made you go from the D1 to a 7.1. I ahve not heard the D1 yet but Anthems reputation and all the things I have read about this unit would make one think this is not a unit to be replaced anytime soon!

Just curious,

Gypsy

Gypsy,

The D1 was too buggy for me and the 8+ months wait for DPLIIx was unacceptable. I heard the RDC-7.1 twice before ordering it and its sound, build quality, and new card design really impressed me.

R

I've been on a few other threads with Raz and he's definitely had some bad experiences with the D1 and I understand his frustration. I'd probably feel the same way if i were him.

To be fair, i dont know of anyone else who has had the same issues. There were a few of us on the beta program for DPL IIx and found a few bugs but that was part of what we signed up for.

DPL IIx took so long due to a delay from motorola coming up with the code for Anthem.

Not to impugn the RDC 7.1, i'm sure its a super unit, i just wanted to give another perspective on the D1 stability and reliability.

The customer service really is amazing for the D1. Keep in mind there was a whole thread of integra users very upset about the 7.1 when it was announced with no upgrade option while AVM 20 owners will have the option to upgrade to a full AVM 30 with iLink, HDMI, transcoding, and scaling this year. To me that says something.

John

Originally posted by Expletive
I've been on a few other threads with Raz and he's definitely had some bad experiences with the D1 and I understand his frustration. I'd probably feel the same way if i were him.

To be fair, i dont know of anyone else who has had the same issues. There were a few of us on the beta program for DPL IIx and found a few bugs but that was part of what we signed up for.

DPL IIx took so long due to a delay from motorola coming up with the code for Anthem.

Not to impugn the RDC 7.1, i'm sure its a super unit, i just wanted to give another perspective on the D1 stability and reliability.

The customer service really is amazing for the D1. Keep in mind there was a whole thread of integra users very upset about the 7.1 when it was announced with no upgrade option while AVM 20 owners will have the option to upgrade to a full AVM 30 with iLink, HDMI, transcoding, and scaling this year. To me that says something.

John


John,

Anthem's customer service is outstanding, there's no question about that.

My problem was this:f it took them so long to upgrade the D1 to DPLIIx then think how long it will take them to upgrade it to other formats. I have no patience.

R

Raz- Any info on the crossovers yet? In the PDF document it says "Individual Crossover Adjustment," which still could be a global setting, or true individual crossovers. Thanks!

Originally posted by Kevin C Brown
Raz- Any info on the crossovers yet? In the PDF document it says "Individual Crossover Adjustment," which still could be a global setting, or true individual crossovers. Thanks!

The crossovers are for pair of speakers: fronts, surrounds, surrounds back, and center and subwoofer and they go from 40 to 150 Hz in increments of 10 Hz. So, as an example, you could set the crossovers for fronts at, say, 50, center 60, surrounds 75, surrounds back 80, subwoofer 60. You could also set speakers to 'full band". There is also a low-pass filter for LFE and a subwoofer mode where the sub outputs only LFE or both LFE and bass from the front speakers. And the RDC-7.1 has a notch filter too.

R

A few more comments:

1. The remote's touchpad is horrible, the worst I have ever seen.

2. My unit already has a problem with the OSD over component, it works in 5% of the cases I tried it, I usually get a blank screen. It's definitely a defect or a bug, I'll contact my dealer tomorrow.

3. The RDC-7.1 and the RDC-7 sound completely different, some RDC-7 owners might not like the new Integra Research sound.

R

Razvan,

Thats bad news about the remote. As I have said before my current Pioneer is too bright in my room so your comments about the character of the sound are very reassuring and although the component bug wont effect me it is not at all acceptable in a new unit.

Are you using I-Link? Hows the movie sound? (Steering & Imaging?)

Originally posted by Razvanel
John,

Anthem's customer service is outstanding, there's no question about that.

My problem was this:f it took them so long to upgrade the D1 to DPLIIx then think how long it will take them to upgrade it to other formats. I have no patience.

R

I know and I am as impatient as you are, but i do believe Anthem when they say Motorola was the holdup.

The motorola isnt quite as popular as some other DSPs and may even cause other delays later on but my understanding is that it was chosen for its sonic quailty (i believe there is a 48bit high precision mode which the D1 uses).

Since I've purchased an outboard scaler, I have limited use for the Anthem upgrade coming but I would like I-link funcitonality ASAP so I have considered the Integra as well. I just have a hard time giving up correspondence with the folks at Anthem, they really love what they do over there and it shows in there service and products.

Not to mention the D1 is a fantastic piece.

John

Originally posted by Krobar
Razvan,

Thats bad news about the remote. As I have said before my current Pioneer is too bright in my room so your comments about the character of the sound are very reassuring and although the component bug wont effect me it is not at all acceptable in a new unit.

Are you using I-Link? Hows the movie sound? (Steering & Imaging?)

1. The remote is a mess.

2. The RDC-7.1's sound is brighter than the RDC-7 sound but not as bright as the D1. I think that the RDC-7 owners will be very surprised by the new IR sound.

3. I'm not using i-Link as I don't have any player with i-Link. Apparently there's an i-Link bug in the Onkyo 1000 and Integra 10.5 receivers and I assume that the bug is also present in the RDC-7.1.

4. I don't know yet if the component problem is just a bug or my unit is defective. It could also be that just the video module is defective.

5. The speaker crossovers are quite strange: there are no settings for large or small speakers. Both the RDC-7 and the D1 have large/small settings.

6. Under the list of features the manual mentions that the RDC-7.1 has digital upsampling but there is no way to set it on/off. The RDC-7 had a on/off setting for upsampling.

R

Raz,

Thanks for all the impressions thus far. Could you provide more info/description of what you're experiencing with the component video/OSD?

Thanks,
TM

PS - wish I were set up so we could compare notes :(

Originally posted by Expletive
I just have a hard time giving up correspondence with the folks at Anthem

The support Anthem provides is exceptional indeed. We'll seee how Integra takes care of the OSD problem I have with my RDC-7.1.

R

Originally posted by anthonymoody
Raz,

Thanks for all the impressions thus far. Could you provide more info/description of what you're experiencing with the component video/OSD?

Thanks,
TM

PS - wish I were set up so we could compare notes :(

Tony,

I have the RDC-7.1 component out going into the component in of my TV. The first time I turned the RDC-7.1 on there were some color bars moving across the TV screen and the OSD didn't work at all. After a few minutes, the OSD miraculously showed up just to disappear again a few minutes later. Then it showed up again for a minute or two and now I have a blank screen. I read the manual 10 times - the OSD settings are as they should be so there's definitely something wrong with the OSD.

R

I dont know if some of you remember but the poriginal press release mentioned a utility to configure the RDC-7.1 by RS232, I have just been told that utiity should be released public in two weeks time.

My dealer and Integra Research get an A+ for customer service: they are exchanging my unit.

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
I'm not using i-Link as I don't have any player with i-Link. Apparently there's an i-Link bug in the Onkyo 1000 and Integra 10.5 receivers and I assume that the bug is also present in the RDC-7.1.


R,
This is the first I've heard of an i-Link problem. Can you describe the problem or point me to an explination somewhere else?
Thanks!

Originally posted by Steve Goff
R,
This is the first I've heard of an i-Link problem. Can you describe the problem or point me to an explination somewhere else?
Thanks!

Steve,

Read the Onkyo 1000 thread here at AVS. The bug was found by an Integra dealer.

R

Raz,

Too bad about the OSD problem - I hope mine doesn't do that :) Good news about the dealer service and IR taking care of you though :)

TM

Okay, I seem to remember something in that thread, but wasn't sure that it is a persistent problem. Here is what egcarter said about the problem: "I have found one [bug] that I have dealt with twice now. The receiver and my DPS-10.5 DVD player seem to lose contact over iLink and there is no audio. This has never happened while actually watching/listening to something. We popped in a DVD of CASABLANCA last night and there was just no audio from the get-go. The workaround is to turn both units off, then on. They do a "LINK-CHECK" on the displays, then the IEEE1394 lights up under AUDIO SIGNAL and it's fine." He's informed Onkyo about the problem.

Originally posted by Steve Goff
Okay, I seem to remember something in that thread, but wasn't sure that it is a persistent problem. Here is what egcarter said about the problem: "I have found one [bug] that I have dealt with twice now. The receiver and my DPS-10.5 DVD player seem to lose contact over iLink and there is no audio. This has never happened while actually watching/listening to something. We popped in a DVD of CASABLANCA last night and there was just no audio from the get-go. The workaround is to turn both units off, then on. They do a "LINK-CHECK" on the displays, then the IEEE1394 lights up under AUDIO SIGNAL and it's fine." He's informed Onkyo about the problem.

Steve, yes, that's the bug I was talking about.

R

Anyone know why the 7.1 basic setup weighs about 10 lbs more than the 7?? If the numbers I see are accurate--very curious what added to the weight!

Chassis!

Originally posted by jheoaustin
Chassis!

Likely culprit, but is that fact or speculation?

Question for 7.1 users--can you rename items on the display? In order words, if you push the "Tape 1" button, can you rename the display to "CD-R" if that's what it is, or even "Razvanel"? How many characters?

Door still motorized? Was that reliable on the 7?

Originally posted by DoctorO
Likely culprit, but is that fact or speculation?

Question for 7.1 users--can you rename items on the display? In order words, if you push the "Tape 1" button, can you rename the display to "CD-R" if that's what it is, or even "Razvanel"? How many characters?

Door still motorized? Was that reliable on the 7?

Yes, you can rename all inputs, 10 characters. By the way, the inputs on my RDC-7.1 are renamed Razvanel1, Razvanel2, etc.

The door is still motorized. I had the RDC-7 for two years, no problems at all with the motorized door.

R

You didn't rename one "F U" for nostalgia's sake?? ;) Seriously, tho, many of us have learned much useful from your posts--they're appreciated!

"Chassis" was a speculation. I couldn't think of anything else.

I have another Integra 7.1 question, if I can articulate it...in the software, does each input function as a separate device (for which you could pre-program, say sound mode, treble adjustment, level), OR, do the devices correspond with the "hard buttons" on the unit. I am contrasting, say, a flagship receiver, on which each of so many inputs operates as a device in setup, versus, say, the D1, where there are many inputs, but programmed devices function in correspondence with the hard button devices. In other words, you can hang two or three components by combining inputs on a single device, but when it comes to programming and labelling, you lose flexibility because you can only program for one of those three components. How does the 7.1 work in this regard? To make the most of the modules, I hope it's not constrained like a D1...

DoctorO,

I dont entirely understand your question but will have a go.

With Integra kit you assign the video (Eg. Component 1) and audio inputs (Eg. Optical 1) to each input setting (Eg. VCR1) as with any reciever. Each input also has some other options like subwoofer sensitivity and a tweak for format locking. You can then set each audio modes preset (Eg. DPL2 or I-Link SACD), oprtions include LFE level and default behaviour for EX/ES flags (If applicable).

I think DoctorO is trying to find out if when you program the settings into the reciever, can you have multiple devices get programed at the same time by doing something like "Continue pushing the different input devices to configure, hit end when done selecting devices to program, make edits, hit end to finish", basically to save you the time it would take to program each and every input when you are going to use pretty much the same exact settings for all devices that have multichannel output, etc....

At least that was how I read the question that DoctorO was asking. Personnally I would have liked that feature in my current receiver, but I had to modify each and every input for each and every mode (i.e. 7 inputs x 17 modes = 119 different times I had to add in the +/- db's for each channel, which was one pain in the azz if you ask me).

To my recollection, at least with the IR 7 (as opposed to the 7.1) you had to do each individually. That said, while there may be 119 +- different possible combinations of inputs and modes, I found that I used 2 inputs (HD cable and DVD) 99% of the time, and a few modes with each of them, so it wasn't that big an ordeal - for me. Not sure yet if the 7.1 has the same basic OS/UI.

TM

The PCConfig utility may make things alot easier anyway.

Ah so! Very true. Hadn't thought of that. Is that supposed to be there for the consumer? Or a dealer-only set up option? (Sorry if the answer to this is easily gettable - I feel lazy at the moment).

TM

How about one of you early adopters start a fresh thread on the 7.1? There I will re-post my question above that I did not articulate well enough, plus it may draw some other readers in who may not realize these conversations are happening! There was so much excitement when the 7.1 was announced last year--surprised not hearing more from folks.

I think I understand DoctorO's question and (I think) the answer is yes. The 7.1 is pretty flexible about "logical sources." For example, you might configure your universal DVD player as two separate sources and each could have its own settings for surround modes, etc. You might name the two inputs:

DVD: video source = DVD player, audio source = DVD player
CD: video source = sat dish, audio source = DVD player

Within each "virtual source", you could set up different surround modes for different signal types, e.g. DPL2x for stereo CDs and straight passthrough for SACD.

And yet more i-Link problems - this time is the Onkyo 1000 receiver:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=495703

R

I have a bigger prob.. My RDC-7.1 still hasnt shipped :(

If they can't get i-Link to reliably work with all players there won't be much reason for me to upgrade my RDC-7 to an RDC-7.1, since that is the feature I most want.

Originally posted by Krobar
I have a bigger prob.. My RDC-7.1 still hasnt shipped :(

Check your PM.

R

Originally posted by Steve Goff
If they can't get i-Link to reliably work with all players there won't be much reason for me to upgrade my RDC-7 to an RDC-7.1, since that is the feature I most want.

Steve,

I hear you. I wonder if Onkyo is aware of the problem and, if they are, if they'll ever fix it.

To anyone considering upgrading from the RDC-7 to the RDC-7.1 I suggest you listen to the RDC-7.1 first. The RDC-7.1 sound is very different from the RDC-7 sound.

R

Originally posted by Krobar
I have a bigger prob.. My RDC-7.1 still hasnt shipped :(

Lost in customs, or not yet at the dealer who is shipping it???

Not yet shipped although I think that may have changed in the last few hours :)

Originally posted by Krobar
Not yet shipped although I think that may have changed in the last few hours :)

Keep us posted--it will be interesting to hear if your I-link will work, given what other posters are saying--if you will be connecting anything to it.

I will be connecting a Pioneer DV-868AVI (Euro 59AVI) to it by I-Link.

It's interesting but for whatever reason I'm almost 100% 'over' audio. For sure I plan on streaming stuff from my computer and playing CD's/etc for parties, background noise, etc. But I do zero critical listening these days and haven't for ages. FOr me it's become all about video/HT.

That said, I hope IR does in fact fix the i-Link issues if any. And FWIW I will be connecting a 59avi to the 7.1 so perhaps I'll have something to say about it when the time comes :)

TM

Originally posted by Razvanel
Steve,

I hear you. I wonder if Onkyo is aware of the problem and, if they are, if they'll ever fix it.

To anyone considering upgrading from the RDC-7 to the RDC-7.1 I suggest you listen to the RDC-7.1 first. The RDC-7.1 sound is very different from the RDC-7 sound.

R

Razvanel, could you please elaborate on the sound of the .1 as I am a 7 owner and I am seriously considering an upgrade. I would like to have HDMI and I-Link in my system as I have a Pioneer 59-AVi and a new Sony projector. I love the sound of my RDC-7 and I believe the 7 shines in both two channel and HT that is why I keep it.

Originally posted by catapult
I think I understand DoctorO's question and (I think) the answer is yes. The 7.1 is pretty flexible about "logical sources." For example, you might configure your universal DVD player as two separate sources and each could have its own settings for surround modes, etc. You might name the two inputs:

DVD: video source = DVD player, audio source = DVD player
CD: video source = sat dish, audio source = DVD player

Within each "virtual source", you could set up different surround modes for different signal types, e.g. DPL2x for stereo CDs and straight passthrough for SACD.

Getting closer but not there yet! Here is what I was trying to say. We have many devices to connect. With the D1 there may be seven digital inputs and seven analog inputs (that # may not be exact but that’s not important). These inputs can be flexibly assigned to hard buttons. But with the limited number of inputs we have to double up on all of them. So, I can connect a digital out from a DVD player to the DVD button as well as the analog out from a cassette deck to the same button. It’s two different devices to one button, rather than one device to more than one button, in the example Catapault gave. I can label the button something stupid that reflects both inputted devices, say, “DVD CS” with the six character space limit. I can set preset characteristics (e.g., “treble”) but that will apply to both devices on that button however. Leads to some inconveniences, when the devices have different sonic characteristics.

So the question: I wondered if the 7.1 has the same limitations. Or, especially considering the multitude of different configurations of input cards that one could have, the inputs can truly be set up independently in the firmware, and do not have to be grouped to the hard buttons.

Originally posted by Minge
Razvanel, could you please elaborate on the sound of the .1 as I am a 7 owner and I am seriously considering an upgrade. I would like to have HDMI and I-Link in my system as I have a Pioneer 59-AVi and a new Sony projector. I love the sound of my RDC-7 and I believe the 7 shines in both two channel and HT that is why I keep it.

The 7.1 has a much more detailed sound than the 7. It is crisper and not as soft as the 7. In my opinion the 7.1 and the 7 sound completely different. You've got to listen to the 7.1 yourself. A friend of mine who has the 7 heard the 7.1 at a dealer and didn't like its sound at all. He decided to keep his 7.

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
The 7.1 has a much more detailed sound than the 7. It is crisper and not as soft as the 7. In my opinion the 7.1 and the 7 sound completely different. You've got to listen to the 7.1 yourself. A friend of mine who has the 7 heard the 7.1 at a dealer and didn't like its sound at all. He decided to keep his 7.

R

R,
The 7.1 is high on my list when the 4:1 HDMI component 'box' is released; but I do not really like what can be discribed as a 'bright' sound, as I find it fatiguing after listening for awhile. I owned a Krell HTS and Krell KAV-1500 which I replaced partly because I found the sound very 'harsh'. Is the 7.1 very bright, OR just brighter than the 7 which you descrbed as 'soft'? Perhaps you could state where it falls on a scale of 0-10 with 0 being very soft; 5 being 'neutral' and 10 being very bright?
Thanks for any help; my problem is that I shall have to order this unit sight/sound unseen as I have no dealer within hundreds of miles.
Bish

Originally posted by thebishman
R,
The 7.1 is high on my list when the 4:1 HDMI component 'box' is released; but I do not really like what can be discribed as a 'bright' sound, as I find it fatiguing after listening for awhile. I owned a Krell HTS and Krell KAV-1500 which I replaced partly because I found the sound very 'harsh'. Is the 7.1 very bright, OR just brighter than the 7 which you descrbed as 'soft'? Perhaps you could state where it falls on a scale of 0-10 with 0 being very soft; 5 being 'neutral' and 10 being very bright?
Thanks for any help; my problem is that I shall have to order this unit sight/sound unseen as I have no dealer within hundreds of miles.
Bish

Bish,

Next week I will receive my replacement unit from IR and will be able to tell you more about its sound once I listen to it more. So far this is how I would rate, using your scale, the processors that I have owned or been able to listen to for an extended period of time:

B&K Ref 30: 1
Integra Research RDC-7: 3
Anthem D1: 9
Krell - I don't remember the model, the MSRP was $4000: 10
RDC-7.1: 7

R

R.,
That is excellent news that the 7.1 is a 7 on the 0-10 'scale'. I look forward to your in-depth review of your replacement unit when you've had more time to listen.
BTW, any word from IR re: the DD++ and DTS-HD future plans?
Bish

Originally posted by thebishman

BTW, any word from IR re: the DD++ and DTS-HD future plans?
Bish

The dealer I bought it from told me that IR told him in an e-mail that the RDC-7.1 will be upgraded to the new DD and DTS formats.

R

Is it possible that the people reporting the RDC-7.1 to be "bright" are listening to units that have not been broken in yet? Lots of equipment I've owned smooths out after the first 100 to 200 hours of use.

That's an optimistic view at least.

Les

Originally posted by Les H
Is it possible that the people reporting the RDC-7.1 to be "bright" are listening to units that have not been broken in yet? Lots of equipment I've owned smooths out after the first 100 to 200 hours of use.

That's an optimistic view at least.

Les

The RDC-7.1 is not as bright as a Krell or Anthem, it's just brighter than the RDC-7. The RDC-7.1 sounds just the way I like it ( I didn't like the RDC-7 sound much).

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
The RDC-7.1 is not as bright as a Krell or Anthem, it's just brighter than the RDC-7. The RDC-7.1 sounds just the way I like it ( I didn't like the RDC-7 sound much).

R

I think one needs to consider the entire chain - pre/pro, amp and speakers - when talking about brightness, the lack thereof or any other sonic characteristics. For some systems, the RDC-7.1 may be too bright, and the RDC-7 just right. For other systems, the RDC-7.1 may be perfect while the original RDC-7 may sound flat. Besides, for me, the word "bright" has negative connotations; "open" or "airy" might be better.

Originally posted by pepar
I think one needs to consider the entire chain - pre/pro, amp and speakers - when talking about brightness, the lack thereof or any other sonic characteristics. For some systems, the RDC-7.1 may be too bright, and the RDC-7 just right. For other systems, the RDC-7.1 may be perfect while the original RDC-7 may sound flat. Besides, for me, the word "bright" has negative connotations; "open" or "airy" might be better.

As I said before, the RDC-7.1 and the RDC-7 sound different. I like the RDC-7.1 sound, a friend of mine who has the RDC-7 doesn't like the new IR sound. Anyone interested in getting the RDC-7.1 should listen to it first, don't assume that it sounds the same as the old RDC-7, it doesn't.

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
. . Anyone interested in getting the RDC-7.1 should listen to it first . .

R

Yep.

Any suggestions for dealers outside of CA that will take phone orders and discounts?

Does the RDC-7.1 upsample or resample all digital audio inputs to 24 bit, 192 kHz internally? Can this feature be turned off when listening to an audio CD at 16 bit, 44.1 kHz, as an example?

Brian

Does anybody know for sure if you have to order the main video module if you only need HDMI switching? On the Japanese IR web site is says that you do, but on the US one you can order the HDMI module without the main video module.

I guess you could try to order it and see what happens :)

Originally posted by gimp
Any suggestions for dealers outside of CA that will take phone orders and discounts?

Before ordering my unit I called 7 or 8 dealers in CA and out-of-state. The dealer who gave me the best discount was in CA.

R

Originally posted by krassyg
Does anybody know for sure if you have to order the main video module if you only need HDMI switching? On the Japanese IR web site is says that you do, but on the US one you can order the HDMI module without the main video module.

Actually, just get a build number from the IR web site for the configuration with an HDMI module and no standard video module. Then take it to your dealer and ask for a price quote on that build number. You probably wouldn't have to place the order to find out if the configuration is possible. My dealer said that he still has to talk to the IR rep for my new build number from Monday. That's what makes me believe that the build number process is a little more involved than just an automated lookup system.

Brian

Originally posted by bkzoller
Does the RDC-7.1 upsample or resample all digital audio inputs to 24 bit, 192 kHz internally? Can this feature be turned off when listening to an audio CD at 16 bit, 44.1 kHz, as an example?

Brian

The RDC-7.1 manual mentions that the RDC-7.1 has upsampling but doesn't mention what kind of upsampling it is. I couldn't find a way to turn it off/on though. On the old RDC-7 one could turn the upsampling on/off.

R

Originally posted by bkzoller
Actually, just get a build number from the IR web site for the configuration with an HDMI module and no standard video module. Then take it to your dealer and ask for a price quote on that build number.


When I ordered my RDC-7.1 I just called a few IR dealers and told them what modules I wanted. I didn't use any build number.

R

Love the thread guys, a bastion of knowledge here, but a quick question for ya. Right now I am using a B&K Ref 50 and was planning on upgrading to a RDC-7.1 over the next three months or so. I use Polk Lsi Speakers, a Earthquake Supernova MKIV-12 Sub, and A Buttkicker LFE Tactile Transducer.

Right now I have my crossover set to 60hz, and the buttkicker is crossed over at 50hz, but I am having a issue. When watching movies the thing is great for explosions, but whenever there is music with deep bass it kicks in to, and it just feels wrong. It works well for any sort of action, but when music kicks in on it it just feels creppy. I have tried lowering the crossover setting, but to no avail.

Now two questions, first, If I have my pre-amp crossover set to 60, then the amps crossover set to 50, how does this work? Does it have a 12db/octave drop up to 60hz, then drops of at 24db/octave, or is it still at 12db/octave? I assume that the amp is smart enough to take a 60hz signal and crossover at 50hz, and that its not crossing over to low because it thinks it's getting a fullbandwith signal.

Now the main question, does the RDC-7.1 offer independent sub out and lfe out? I saw that the Integra 10.5 had two sub outs, and you could set them to work with individual sources, just wondering if you can do more. Ideally I would like to set sub pre-out a to do lfe and the 60hz and below info, while pre-out b would do just the lfe signal.

Thanks for the help in this matter.

Jared

Jared,

Im not sure if the the RDC-7.1 can do independant LFE out. First you can assign sub preouts A and B to Zone A. In this config, the Notch filter setting apply to both and the THX Ultra 2 settings can be applied per sub. The LFE setting are set per mode (Eg. DTS and DD seperate), you can choose Sub A, Sub B or both. What I dont know is how to stop the crossover settings being fed into Sub B for example.

Your crossover can be set diferently for each speaker set too. (eg. set 60hz for main l/r and 80hz for centre and 90hz for rears)

Maybe a more experienced IR user know how to setup what you want?

Jared,

It seems to me that only a dedicated effects channel encoded in the software (that is, in the soundtrack of the movie) could differentiate between effects and music for feeding a shaker like the Buttkicker. There is presently no way for a surround sound processor to differentiate between effects and music. In part because of this, I find Buttkickers more problematic than pleasurable, and would never install one in my theater.

Steve,

Do you know how to stop the crossover bass going to Sub out B?

No, the only way I know to stop the bass from other channels from going out any of the subwoofer outputs is to say that you have a sub but that your speakers are full-range.

Originally posted by Steve Goff
Jared,

It seems to me that only a dedicated effects channel encoded in the software (that is, in the soundtrack of the movie) could differentiate between effects and music for feeding a shaker like the Buttkicker. There is presently no way for a surround sound processor to differentiate between effects and music. In part because of this, I find Buttkickers more problematic than pleasurable, and would never install one in my theater.

I'd postulate that while the present processing circuits are not designed to distinguish between bass frequencies occuring in the main channels (and routed tio the sub out(s)) and LFE, it would not have to. LFE tends to be very low frequencies, lower than most fundamental frequencies of any instruments except a huge pipe organ and, perhaps, a huge bass drum. I'd experiment with x-over frequencies until the x-over was able to discriminate between the two - 40Hz perhaps would do it. Anything below that, be it a bass drum, Chris Squire's lowest fretless bass notes, LFE and whatever, would be OK with me to feel it in my fanny. Bowser of Shanana never hit anything below 100Hz, if that. With dual (and parallel) sub outs driving both sub amp(s) and buttkicker amp, all one would need is a low pass filter on the buttkicker channel.

Gaara: What's the lowest frequency that you tried?

The lowest note of a piano (A0) is 27.5 Hz, while the lowest note of an acoustic bass is about 44 Hz, with alternate tunings going lower. You might try a crossover frequency of about 40 Hz, but music will still excite your Buttkicker from time to time. I don't mind having music affect me physically, but Buttkickers feel fake to me. No thanks.

Originally posted by Steve Goff
The lowest note of a piano (A0) is 27.5 Hz, while the lowest note of an acoustic bass is about 44 Hz, with alternate tunings going lower. You might try a crossover frequency of about 40 Hz, but music will still excite your Buttkicker from time to time. I don't mind having music affect me physically, but Buttkickers feel fake to me. No thanks.

I don't have Buttkickers, but I have dual Hsu TN-1220s and a fortuitous floor resonance at what feels like 20Hz - 30Hz. Certain LFEs - like the gunshots as Trinity and the agent fall from the building in the second Matrix and T-Rex menacing the kids in the vehicle in the second Jurassic Park - feel awesome. I'd guess that Buttkickers, if properly adjusted, could positively augment one's HT experience. Set too high, they'd feel fake. Steve?

Krobar, you get what I am saying, I want to be able to select what bass goes where. Like Parasound's Halo preamps you can have some choice on 4 extra preouts, what they are used for, I was hoping for something like that, so I could choose to have my sub out b just do the lfe track. This way when the movie is going and there is no lfe info then my chair will be still.

Pepar, I have tried 40hz and originally liked setting the buttkicer at 50 better, but I think it is to distracting. I am leaving it at 40hz for now, that way very little gets through in respect to musical bass. You make a good point that with a low enough frequency there should be very little musical information, especially with my tastes in music (no organs here). I just wish that the 7.1 could send just the lfe out of one sub out, and the lfe with the summed bass below the x-over through the other. The main thing I am afraid of with setting my crossover so low is that I will lose the punch of certain affects, such as gun shots. This is the main thing I want to keep, I just don't want to feel the musical beat in with it, it is distracting to me.

Steve, I find the buttkicker gimmicky for music, but find that if dialed in right it works well for movies. To tell the truth the main reason I got it was because I have a issue with volume in my room, I cannot go above a certain level, so I needed something to augment my sub without adding to volume. A tactile transducer was the logical choice, since it would not make the room louder, yet it would add to bass and perceived volume. The room shaking was also an issue, so I have built a platform for my chair, as well as a platform for my sub, consisting of concrete blocks, a Auralex GRAMMA, and 150lbs of granite.

So what I really want is the ability to have a movie with music going in the background, and not to feel it, yet when a gun goes off I want to feel it when someone gets pushed back by the impact.

Thanks everyone for the responses.

Jared

Originally posted by Gaara


Pepar, I have tried 40hz and originally liked setting the buttkicer at 50 better, but I think it is to distracting. I am leaving it at 40hz for now, that way very little gets through in respect to musical bass. You make a good point that with a low enough frequency there should be very little musical information, especially with my tastes in music (no organs here). I just wish that the 7.1 could send just the lfe out of one sub out, and the lfe with the summed bass below the x-over through the other. The main thing I am afraid of with setting my crossover so low is that I will lose the punch of certain affects, such as gun shots. This is the main thing I want to keep, I just don't want to feel the musical beat in with it, it is distracting to me.

So what I really want is the ability to have a movie with music going in the background, and not to feel it, yet when a gun goes off I want to feel it when someone gets pushed back by the impact.

Set your x-over where you need it to be for your speaker system - the THX-recommended 80Hz is what I use - and put a 40Hz low pass filter in line to the Buttkicker amp. Voila!

Originally posted by thebishman
R.,
That is excellent news that the 7.1 is a 7 on the 0-10 'scale'. I look forward to your in-depth review of your replacement unit when you've had more time to listen.
BTW, any word from IR re: the DD++ and DTS-HD future plans?
Bish

Bish,

I've had the replacement unit for a couple of days and, surprise, the rating is a 3, as warm as the old RDC-7. My guess is that there was something wrong with the sound on my first RDC-7.1. The RDC-7.1 sounds the same as the old RDC-7 except for the midrange which now is not compressed at all. If you are a fan of warm sound you will love the RDC-7.1.

R

R
Thanks for the update.
If you 'hear' of any chance of an EQ type 'update' to the 7.1 let us know.
BTW, I will have to order this from out of state as I have no dealer within hundreds of miles. If you can highly recommend a dealer for long distance purchase, I would be grateful. PM me if you'd like.
Bish

Originally posted by thebishman
R
Thanks for the update.
If you 'hear' of any chance of an EQ type 'update' to the 7.1 let us know.
BTW, I will have to order this from out of state as I have no dealer within hundreds of miles. If you can highly recommend a dealer for long distance purchase, I would be grateful. PM me if you'd like.
Bish

Bish, check your PM. I'm VERY impressed with the way the RDC-7.1 sounds, its build quality, and its features. Great, great processor. This is my fourth processor and it is by far the best I've owned.

R

I found some interesting information on Home Theater Forum (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=215792) about build numbers with the Integra receiver.


I even attempted to use it when I was buying mine. I quickly changed my mind when the dealer told me it would result in a) receiver being more expensive and b) waiting longer for it to arrive. I ordered the necessary cards along with the receiver and plugged them in myself.



I was also told that starting January 1 2005 there is a $200 charge if Integra builds the unit for you.


For those who ordered the RDC-7.1, I'm curious whether the unit arrived with the modules already installed or if those were separate. I suppose the dealer could have performed the module installation as well. If IR also charges $200 for the build, that may explain some of the apparent discrepancies in pricing between different configurations.

Brian

Originally posted by bkzoller
I found some interesting information on Home Theater Forum (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=215792) about build numbers with the Integra receiver.





For those who ordered the RDC-7.1, I'm curious whether the unit arrived with the modules already installed or if those were separate. I suppose the dealer could have performed the module installation as well. If IR also charges $200 for the build, that may explain some of the apparent discrepancies in pricing between different configurations.

Brian

Brian,

The only way to know for sure is to call Integra Research and ask them.

R

Can the RDC-7.1 do 3 subs? For example if the 7.1 has 2 RCA sub ouputs and one balanced (XLR) output is the pre-pro able to output all 3?

I mean to ask if it can output 3 independent subs.

RCA output A and the XLR sub output share the same settings. Both outputs will run at the same time. RCA output B is independant.

Originally posted by Krobar
RCA output A and the XLR sub output share the same settings. Both outputs will run at the same time. RCA output B is independant.

"Independant" as in having its own settings, e.g. x-over setting, volume, etc? I thought it was determined that all sub outs were in parallel?

There are seperate settings for THX Ultra 2 and an LFE setting for most Listening Presets (Can choose A, B, Both or None).

I just did my daily check of the Integra site and found that they have posted the RDC-7.1 instruction manual for download. Should be very informative reading!! http://www.integraresearch.com/own_manuals.cfm

Good find Phil Rose! Hmm, page 93, bottom left, subwoofer mode. "LFE only: The subwoofer outputs only LFE (Low Frequency Effect) information.
D. Bass: The subwoofer outputs not only LFE (Low Frequency Effect) factors but also bass sounds from the front speakers."

Looks to me like I could use the second sub out to do just lfe afterall. Might be some work, setup zone 1 normal, and then have zone 2 do the same signal, but set the second sub out to lfe only. Seems this is what I would have to do because a little above this it says that the speakers have to be set to full band to allow these settings, so it would take some work but it looks like I could setup my buttkicker to do lfe only, sweet!

Pepar, I have my system set at the x-over point of 60hz, since my speakers are all effective down to around 40ish, 55ish +/- 3db. I have experimented alot and find this to be the location for the flattest response in my given situation. I then have the buttkicker's own amp now set to 40hz, causing some cascading crossovers, but the very large dip is better in my situation. I did some demos, and found that this is functional, not perfect, but no longer distracting, now it blends. In a few months when I get the rdc-7.1 I will have more options for crossovers using the second zone sub, and will experiment more then with settings.

Thanks for everyones input!

Jared

Phil,

That was fast, I only got the email telling me about it 40mins before you posted.

Originally posted by Gaara
In a few months when I get the rdc-7.1 I will have more options for crossovers using the second zone sub, and will experiment more then with settings.

Jared

Doh! Of course, the Zone 2 sub out!

Phil,

That was fast, I only got the email telling me about it 40mins before you posted. Just a coincidence! :)

Originally posted by Phil Rose
Just a coincidence! :)

You tell me ;)

Today I called IR and asked them about the difference between the 1.03 master version and the 1.04 master version. I was told that some programming changes were made that do not affect the performance of the RDC-7.1 in any way. To have the unit upgraded to 1.04 you'd have to send it to IR, the new firmware is not available on their web site or on CD.

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
Today I called IR and asked them about the difference between the 1.03 master version and the 1.04 master version. I was told that some programming changes were made that do not affect the performance of the RDC-7.1 in any way. To have the unit upgraded to 1.04 you'd have to send it to IR, the new firmware is not available on their web site or on CD.

R

I hope this doesnt come across the wrong way but whats the point of having user upgradeable hardware if the firmware needs to be done at the factory?

I know one of the main reasons for you getting the 7.1 was for its user-upgradeability, this doesnt bode well in that regard.

Did they say why they wouldnt make it available?

John

I am puzzled by this as well. Did Integra stated that the new firmware could not be uploaded because of availability (via internet or CD) or because of special hardware/software uploading requirements only available at the factory?

Originally posted by Expletive
I hope this doesnt come across the wrong way but whats the point of having user upgradeable hardware if the firmware needs to be done at the factory?

I know one of the main reasons for you getting the 7.1 was for its user-upgradeability, this doesnt bode well in that regard.

Did they say why they wouldnt make it available?

John

John,

I am as puzzled as you are. They didn't say why they would not make it available.

R

They are still working on that software package for controlling the pre/pro over RS-232 and possibly ethernet via the Net-Tune module. My guess would be that the software would allow installing firmware upgrades as one of the features. Without that software being available, there might not be another way for the end user to install new firmware.

Brian

Maybe they don't view 1.03 to 1.04 as being that important an upgrade. Maybe future ones will be mass available...

I feel like we're all gathered around a fire in some mystical place trying to invoke the spirits, observing the juxtaposition of small animal bones and trying to divine the future in tea leaves. Never have so many - us - filled so many posts with so little actual information. This is not a knock against us; it is an expression of frustration that so little information is flowing from the manufacturer - the manufacturer of the pre/pro who, presumably, would like to sell each and every one of us one. I'm familiar with the fog of war, but the fog of a new pre/pro release is absurd.

That is absurd. Another strike against the possibility of us buying one. Hope someone can find a source other than those tea leaves for an explanation.

I was told it was just a service release and nothing significant was changed. I still dont understand why they can just give the update to people though.

AFAIK Even official dealers cannot download from the dealer section!

IR is apparently slower in updating their web page than Onkyo for whatever reason. You can't download the Net-Tune software from the IR site, even though presumably the Net-Tune module can be ordered with the RDC-7.1. The software download is available from the Onkyo site when you enter a TX-NR1000 serial number, among others. Also, look how long it took IR to post the PDF user manual compared to Onkyo.

I took the plunge and ordered the RDC-7.1 yesterday. Its features are the best match for what I need among the pre/pros that are available today. Maybe my tea leaves and Tarot cards are misleading me, but there seems to be enough room for incremental improvements to the product. Time will tell.

Brian

Well I finally opened the box to confirm that I got the correct modules (still haven't hooked anything up and can't for a few more weeks - sorry!) and was interested to find that I received a Net Tune card instead of the am/fm tuner module. Turns out to have been a dealer error and my dealer (with whom I am really happy and impressed with, both in terms of pricing and service) is sending an am/fm module to me to install - thus confirming as Raz said that the cards are definitely upgradeable by the owner in the field.

As for the firmware question, that is truly vexing. We'll see I guess.

By the way, what does the 7.1 do with audio that comes in over the HDMI input? Can anyone confirm? My specific question is what it does with a 5.1 DD stream. Turns out my cable box (a SA 8300HD w/Passport software) has a bug wherein if the connected device can't handle the 5.1 DD stream over HDMI, ALL digital audio outputs - including optical and coax - default down to 2 channel. Apparently the 8300 with SARA software allows you to 'force' 5.1 with a menu option, but Passport software has no such option.

I guess if the 7.1 can only 'take' 2 channel audio over HDMI (which I suspect) then I'll use one of the groovy surround processing formats to get to 7.1 channels. I guess I will also do a PQ comparison of HDMI vs. component from the cable box to see what the difference is. If I can't spot any then I may run component video and keep the 5.1 digital audio in tact until Pioneer updates the Passport software. Ironic since one of the reasons I got the 7.1 was HDMI switching :(

TM

That's odd that he ordered the Net-Tune module instead of the AM/FM tuner. Did you write down the serial number of your unit? I would be curious to know if you could use that to download the Net-Tune Central software from the Onkyo site. It's no big deal otherwise.

The HDMI inputs are reported to follow the version 1.0 standard. That means the audio formats that are supported are PCM, Dolby Digital and DTS. Basically, the module supports the same formats that you can use over the optical and coaxial S/PDIF inputs.

In the Onkyo receiver thread, egcarter reported receiving a letter that there will be a new module called HDMI-HD. There weren't many details about it, but that one should be HDMI v1.2, which would support high resolution audio. There are a couple improvements on the video side that I would like to see as well, namely more inputs and video scaling. I chose not to order the current HDMI module with the idea that I might want the upcoming version.

Brian

Originally posted by anthonymoody


By the way, what does the 7.1 do with audio that comes in over the HDMI input? Can anyone confirm? My specific question is what it does with a 5.1 DD stream. Turns out my cable box (a SA 8300HD w/Passport software) has a bug wherein if the connected device can't handle the 5.1 DD stream over HDMI, ALL digital audio outputs - including optical and coax - default down to 2 channel. Apparently the 8300 with SARA software allows you to 'force' 5.1 with a menu option, but Passport software has no such option.

I guess if the 7.1 can only 'take' 2 channel audio over HDMI (which I suspect) then I'll use one of the groovy surround processing formats to get to 7.1 channels.


As per http://news.designtechnica.com/talkback45.html

"HDMI promises both high definition video and audio. But don't be fooled, HDMI does not support 5.1 audio yet."

" Both Audio and Video products currently on the market that utilize HDMI only passes 2.0 digital audio, and not full-blown 5.1 surround sound audio. These products include A/V Receivers, DVD players/recorders, and HDTV’s. "

That's interesting. I guess the standard doesn't mean much when the manufacturers don't implement it.

I finally found the relevant passage in the RDC-7.1 PDF manual (bottom of page 43):


How to Make a Connection Through the HDMI Interface
...

Basically, the HDMI can transmit audio signals. However in order to playback the audio signal with the RDC-7.1, make a separate digital connection with a DVD player or other devices, since the RDC-7.1 cannot playback any audio signals supplied from its HDMI IN 1/2 terminals.


That's a major drawback of the HDMI module. :(

Brian

Brian,

Do you have your RDC-7.1 then?

I ordered it on Monday with the basic video/component module, dual 7.1 inputs and the AM/FM tuner. It could be up to two weeks before I actually have one.

The brochure for the RDC-7.1, called RDC71_sheet.pdf, has information different from the manual. Under "HDMI Module C-HDMI," it says that:

High-Definition Multimedia Interface is the latest in digital transmission technology. This format allows high-definition video and multi-channel audio (Dolby Digital/DTS) to be sent digitally over a single connection.

The implication is that you could use that interface for digital audio in the RDC-7.1. It does not mention that you can only send digital audio to the display device. I think there is enough basis for a complaint over that issue.

Brian

Uh oh! Looks like IR's wonderful customer service is about to be bombarded again :D ;)

Seriously though this is definitely an issue. I'll have to take a look at the thread to get the info re: the HDMI-HD module. 4x1 and the ability to pass 5.1 will make it complete (for me). At the end of the day I was planning on getting the future HDMI module anyway but I'm still bummed about this.

TM

PS - re: the nettune module, I just switched to Mac and to my knowledge the client software is PC only right?

BTW has anyone with a 7.1 (Raz?) tried to confirm the status of this question?

TM

Bad news: I've experienced audio dropouts on my RDC-7.1 while watching OTA HD. I have my Panasonic plasma - which has an HD tuner for OTA HD channels - connected to the RDC-7.1 via an optical cable and have experienced audio dropouts on NBC HD, Fox HD, and several other digital OTA channels. Never had this problem with the Anthem D1 or with my first RDC-7.1.

R

Originally posted by anthonymoody
Uh oh! Looks like IR's wonderful customer service is about to be bombarded again :D ;)

Seriously though this is definitely an issue. I'll have to take a look at the thread to get the info re: the HDMI-HD module. 4x1 and the ability to pass 5.1 will make it complete (for me). At the end of the day I was planning on getting the future HDMI module anyway but I'm still bummed about this.

TM

PS - re: the nettune module, I just switched to Mac and to my knowledge the client software is PC only right?

I asked specifically about the number of inputs on the HDMI-HD module, and there was no indication on the letter that the dealer received. I have decided to get the Zektor DVS5.1 DVI plus S/PDIF 5x1 switch. I need three DVI-HDCP inputs today and probably more in the future. If the HDMI-HD module will have functional high resolution audio and at least 4 inputs, then I would buy it. I wonder how much resale value the current HDMI module might have.

It looks like the Net-Tune Central software only runs on Windows. Maybe it would run on a Mac with the help of emulation software. Here is the download page from Onkyo:

http://www.onkyousa.com/download/download_nettune.cfm

Brian

Interesting choice re: the outboard switching. I only have 2 digital (video) sources now but will have 4 in the not too distant future. Hopefully the next board will have 4 inputs as suspected.

Thanks for the info on nettune. I do run virtual PC on my Mac though it's slow. not sure it'd make a good streaming platform...

TM

Originally posted by Razvanel
Bad news: I've experienced audio dropouts on my RDC-7.1 while watching OTA HD. I have my Panasonic plasma - which has an HD tuner for OTA HD channels - connected to the RDC-7.1 via an optical cable and have experienced audio dropouts on NBC HD, Fox HD, and several other digital OTA channels. Never had this problem with the Anthem D1 or with my first RDC-7.1.

R


That's definitely not good news. Please keep us posted.
TM

Compressed MP3 files are relatively small, so it probably doesn't take much computing power to stream them to the Net-Tune module. I think the module does the decompression of the files rather than the computer, but I'm not completely sure.

The Zektor looks pretty cool. It has built-in remote codes and it will learn discrete codes from an existing remote. The only thing it lacks is the video upconversion in the IR HDMI module.

Brian

Originally posted by Razvanel
Bad news: I've experienced audio dropouts on my RDC-7.1 while watching OTA HD.
R

You might want to ask whether IR will replace only the S/PDIF module this time. It would be easier than sending in the whole unit if everything else is working. You might also uninstall and reinstall the existing S/PDIF module to see if it might just be a bad connection between the module and the main unit.

Brian

There was a listed prob with Mitsubishi tuners and Onkyo stuff because the Optical out on the OTA tuner of the Mits was way out of spec, theres a small possiblity that Panasonic could be similar.

Originally posted by Krobar
There was a listed prob with Mitsubishi tuners and Onkyo stuff because the Optical out on the OTA tuner of the Mits was way out of spec, theres a small possiblity that Panasonic could be similar.

Well, I did more testing and these are the results:

I can duplicate the audio dropouts at will on NBC HD - channel 4-1 in the LA area - and channels 18-1 and 18-2 ( Korean stuff). The dropouts occur when I change channels, for example when I go from channel 5-1 to 4-1 there are 3 or 4 dropouts on channel 4-1 and then the dropouts usually, but not always, stop. If I go to another channel and then go back to 4-1 then I get 3-4 dropouts again. Last week I also experienced two dropouts on Fox HD - channel 11-1 - while watching 24 but that might have been a problem with the broadcast.

Now, the interesting thing is that when I watch channel 4-1 through my Dish Network 811 HD receiver and use the optical out on the 811 there are no dropouts at all. All the connections are the same: the antenna on the house is connected via a splitter to the Panny plasma and to the 811 receiver and I use optical out on both the Panny and the 811 and yet I only get dropouts while using the Panny optical out.

So, I think that the following scenarios are possible:

1. The optical out on the Panny OTA HD tuner is out of specs and there's nothing wrong with the RDC-7.1. But then why do I only have problems with a few channels and not with other channels as well?

2. There is something wrong with the signal from NBC HD and while the 811 receiver can handle and correct it the Panny can't. Crap in, crap out on the Panny.

3. There's something wrong with the RDC-7.1.

R

Have you tried connecting the Panasonic to a different optical input?

Originally posted by bkzoller
Have you tried connecting the Panasonic to a different optical input?

Yes, it didn't help. I also tried 2 other optical cables, that didn't help either.

R

Originally Posted by Razvanel:
Today I called IR and asked them about the difference between the 1.03 master version and the 1.04 master version. I was told that some programming changes were made that do not affect the performance of the RDC-7.1 in any way. To have the unit upgraded to 1.04 you'd have to send it to IR, the new firmware is not available on their web site or on CD. Maybe the dropout issue IS addressed by the version 1.04.

edit:

Originally posted by MStanic here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=504026:
14. With a certain HD set top box model, muting occurs when changing channel from HD to lower one - SPDIF receiver modified to clear bitstream error flags that may be responsible for this muting Could this fix for the Anthem Statement D1 be the same problem that the RDC-7.1 is experiencing?

Raz,
Are you saying the dropouts occur only in the period immediately (or just) after a channel switch but then stop? If so it could be that the 7.1 is struggling to get a 'lock' on the signal but that once it does it's fine. My old Theta Casablanca had this problem (which was exacerbated by the fact that while it was chewing on the 5.1 signal before locking on it would pass digital hash to the speakers - ouch! I even blew a speaker because of this).

This could also explain the selective nature of the problem. Certain channels may be sending a slightly 'weaker' audio signal (though not sure that this makes sense in a digital world but I guess anything is possible). One device may be more sensitive and thus able to lock on no problem whereas another (the 7.1) may take some time to lock on.

Just a guess.

TM

Update: I took the RDC-7.1 out of the rack and replaced it with an Onkyo 702 receiver. Guess what? No dropouts on the Onkyo receiver.

R

I saw in the other thread that your previous RDC-7.1 was firmware 1.04 and your replacement is 1.03. Maybe Phil Rose is right and one of the things that they fixed was the audio dropouts.

Brian

Originally posted by bkzoller
I saw in the other thread that your previous RDC-7.1 was firmware 1.04 and your replacement is 1.03. Maybe Phil Rose is right and one of the things that they fixed was the audio dropouts.

Brian

Brian and Phil,

Yes, that's possible. I've contacted my dealer and told him about the problem. I've also mentioned that there is a new firmware available and that that might fix the dropouts problem.

R

I apologize if this has come up in the thread, but I didn't have time to read the whole thing.

Does anyone know if there is/will be a trade up policy for current RDC-7 owners?

This thread is no longer discussing RDC-7 upgrades or trade-ins and is now discussing the merits and drawbacks of the RDC-7.1. ;) There has not been any official announcement from IR regarding their policy for RDC-7 owners.

Brian

Originally posted by anthonymoody
Raz,
Are you saying the dropouts occur only in the period immediately (or just) after a channel switch but then stop? If so it could be that the 7.1 is struggling to get a 'lock' on the signal but that once it does it's fine.
TM

Anthony,

That's exactly what happens in 95% of the cases when I experience audio dropouts: dropouts occur in the period just after a channel switch and then they stop. Other times the channel switch is fine but dropouts still occur after a few minutes.

I spent a few hours today testing both the Onkyo receiver and the RDC-7.1 and the Onkyo had no dropouts at all. The RDC-7.1 had dropouts on 5 channels.

R

Huh interesting. If it's consistently the same channel then I'm liking my theory more and more :) Not that it's a "good" thing but it may be the answer.

TM

I tried to get the Integra remote to learn my three other remotes today. It could not learn any of them, they are a Benq Projector, Pioneer LD and Kaon Sat box. Anyone else managed to get the controller to learn?

Flip side of Krobar's question--Anyone tried to get a third party remote to run the 7.1?

I just ordered the Universal Remote Control MX-850 Orion, now renamed to Aeros. I should have the remote, the Zektor switch and the RDC-7.1 in the next ten days or so and will report the results. I already have the URC MX-500 remote that I would also be able to test with those.

There is a really good deal on the MX-850 and the Zektor through a contact on this forum. You can PM me if interested.

Brian

Originally posted by bkzoller
I just ordered the Universal Remote Control MX-850 Orion, now renamed to Aeros. I should have the remote, the Zektor switch and the RDC-7.1 in the next ten days or so and will report the results. I already have the URC MX-500 remote that I would also be able to test with those.

There is a really good deal on the MX-850 and the Zektor through a contact on this forum. You can PM me if interested.

Brian

Will be very eager to read how that works. Looking at the manual (have not purchased yet--waiting for more user reports) it looks like a lot of the remote functions are toggle based, like input source selection, but it is hard to tell. That would really be the pits for programming a third party remote, unless someone posts a set of discrete codes somewhere on the net. But since it does not sound as if many folks are buying this unit, does not seem likely anytime soon. :(

One of the things they reportedly fixed on the MX-850 and the other new models is the parity or toggle codes. Or, are you referring to the lack of discrete buttons on the remote? I'm not exactly sure how the rotary dial plays a role in this, but hopefully there will be discrete codes for the various options. If it turns out not to work, I'll have to look for something else. If it does work, I will post a device file for the IR to the www.remotecentral.com file area.

Brian

Originally posted by bkzoller
One of the things they reportedly fixed on the MX-850 and the other new models is the parity or toggle codes. Or, are you referring to the lack of discrete buttons on the remote? I'm not exactly sure how the rotary dial plays a role in this, but hopefully there will be discrete codes for the various options. If it turns out not to work, I'll have to look for something else. If it does work, I will post a device file for the IR to the www.remotecentral.com file area.

Brian

It's that rotary dial on the 7.1's remote that worries me. Looks like bad, bad news.

Originally posted by DoctorO
It's that rotary dial on the 7.1's remote that worries me. Looks like bad, bad news.

I have a Radio Shack 15-2117 remote and I programmed it to control the RDC-7.1 with the help of a JP1 cable, no problems at all.

R

Got me there: JP1?

JP1 is a way to program certain Radio Shack and "One for All" remotes, by using a PC to interface with them. It will not work with all their remotes, it only works with certain ones. Also the JP1 programs that used to do it, are not anywhere near as "polished" or as user friendly, as say the ones for something like a MX-700/800 or Pronto's are.


Anyway... Here is where to find some (or even a lot, if you want it) more info on JP1

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/

http://www.hifi-remote.com/jp1/index.shtml

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/

http://home.austin.rr.com/xris/jp1/jp1FAQ_old.htm

Originally posted by Razvanel
I have a Radio Shack 15-2117 remote and I programmed it to control the RDC-7.1 with the help of a JP1 cable, no problems at all.

R

So, how did you teach the Radio Shack the flywheel source codes? And do you have to toggle through surround modes? Thanks.

Originally posted by DoctorO
So, how did you teach the Radio Shack the flywheel source codes?

The usual way, the RS remote had no problem learning the codes. I can access all sources directly from my RS remote.

You do have to toggle through surround modes. Stereo, direct, pure audio, and a few others can be accessed directly.

R

More on the RDC-7.1 audio dropouts: they only occur with Dolby Digital broadcasts. No problems at all with PCM.

You might recall that 3 years ago several Onkyo/Integra receiver models had similar audio dropouts problems. To fix the problem Onkyo had to replace the chip responsible for decoding the Dolby Digital bitstream.

R

I just did a little testing with a few DD5.1 FTA channels here in Europe. Locking was fine but a little sluggish on any where normalisation was needed.

I got my demo IR 7.1 last week and I finally had the motivation this AM to hook it up.:(
I removed my REF50s2 early this AM and was checking out this thread to see if I should be listening for anything... We have 75 people over for a Superbowl Party in glorious HDTV so audio dropout won't be well received. I ordered a back-up bulb for my PJ so I am ready for anything.
I will give a preliminary report tomorrow on what I have learned. My 'honey-do list" is a mile long so not a lot of critical listening will be going on (hence I woke up early before she catches me with a remote in my hand).:) I ordered my demo with "all-the-fixen's' so it should be fun! Hopefully it will be a keeper.:) Leaving the REF50S2's EQ features will be very hard indeed.:(

Hope you like it Steve. Be sure to try the Enhance DSP mode, it tends to be good for Sport.

Originally posted by SteveH
Leaving the REF50S2's EQ features will be very hard indeed.:(

I'll be most interested in hearing your comments on the differences in the sound between the two pre/pros. Hope your system performs well for your party; I certainly wouldn't want 75 NFL fans angry at me. :)

Originally posted by SteveH
I got my demo IR 7.1 last week and I finally had the motivation this AM to hook it up.:(
I removed my REF50s2 early this AM and was checking out this thread to see if I should be listening for anything...

What is the firmware version on the IR? Let us know about any dropouts.

I got a demo of the B&K AVR507 S2, and it had popping sounds out of the surround speakers when switching inputs or surround modes. I don't remember the exact details of what caused the problem. Have you noticed that on the Ref 50 S2?

Brian

I too have heard the surround sound speaker popping on the B&K stuff at various demos. It's steered me away from them on more than one purchase occassion.

TM

I got everything hooked-up yesterday between cooking and picking up the house and now it is time to pick-up the beer cans and wash dishes. :( I unfortunately did not do much critical listening as my guests came around 4PM central for the pre-game show minutes before adjusting the levels and distances.

While I was at it, I put in their IR DVD player as well and plucked out he Denon 3910. The Denon 3910 won't skip chapters using my burnt compilation of exceptional home theater concert clips (+ media). As in CD's; not all recordings sound the same.. Well, not all concerts sound the same and some are simply amazing! I have 400+ DVD concerts in my collection and have several "best of" disks and I like to use these to understand how products work in surround sound as well as music (these concerts do them both). I have a clip of each song and the Denon won't recognize a chapter while every other DVD player I have tried does. Hence, my motivation of needing a World Class DVD player that can handle my concert disks. 99% of others won't notice this issue but I do because of the concerts (whole disk recordings work perfect). I diverge...

I dislike reading manuals and I was successful in all occasions during set-up other than in connecting the ILINK. After setting up the ILINK, I quickly dropped in the Pink Floyd SACD surround disk to take a quick listen. Nothing... I don't think I did anything wrong (enabled it on both the DVD and 7.1) but I was unable to get sound. :( Since I never read the manual, I might have done something wrong but it should be very straight forward especially since it is bolting together two IR units and enabling both units. Since I never had to read the manual, I consider it a VERY easy set-up. The remote takes a little getting use to with the roller but I plan on converting this to my RTI T2+ remote. In general, Lexicon, Kell, and others assume if you got the $$'s for the processor, you have your own great remote. The assumed correctly as my T2+ is a BREEZE to program and is the perfect blend between touch screen and hard buttons. :)

It is impressive to note IR staffs weekend tech support (both Sat AND Sunday). I didn't dare call about my ILINK confusion considering I was a dealer and didn't read the manual.:(

bksoler asked about the B&K popping. This happens because of the "Plug and Play" loosing and reengaging the signal and you hear a slight "puff" sound. Every and all 50S2's do this when you switch inputs and some DVD players that do not emit a constant signal during pause will hear this puff sound when you release the pause. It is subtle; some notice it while others don't. The IR was dead quiet in all speakers but you will hear relays on the unit when you switch inputs (B&K removed these relays clicks that were used to stabilize and mute between input switching). Personally, I never was bothered by it (both the original 50 series or the IR unit) but you will hear these relays it when you change inputs.

INITIAL IMPRESSIONS OF SOUND:
I have heard just about every higher end product at shows, customers homes, or in my system. Most highend amps and processors end-up in my main system as I am always in search for sonic improvements as well as understanding the sonic differences. The only real way of understanding what something sounds like is by putting it in your system and the best way is to do them side by side quickly switching them out. I have had the following processors in my system in the past year including the Parasound Halo, Krell Showcase and 7.1, Lexicon MC-8B and MC-12B, EAD, Simaudio Stargate, Bryston 1.7, B&K 50S1 and S2, Integra 9.4, Arcam, Sunfire, Sherbourn, Bel Canto, Sherwood, Aragon, Anthem AVM20, and the Theta Casablanca. Each has its own flavor and some sound close to one another but each has its distinct signature (different DAC's, op amps, analog stages, layouts, tone controls etc).
My initial thoughts on the IR7.1 were that it sounded neutral with a small touch of smoothness like a Simaudio Stargate, Krell Showcase, Theta Casablanca, or Integra 9.4. A customer of mine thought it reminded him of his Casablanca III. I'd agree. Please note in this bucket of processors some sound better than others but they have a common characteristic. I find that the Krell 7.1, and B&K REF50S2 for instance have a grainer sound (not necessarily a negative statement) about them albeit more dynamic. When you hear James Taylor pluck the guitars for instance with these two processors (B&K and Krell 7.1), it snaps the string which my ear errors toward this signature. ESPECIALLY the Krell 7.1. Some call this "forward" and I very much like this flavor. The IR does not have this snap (like about every other processor that I have heard other than the B&K and Krell 7.1). Note the Krell 7.1 sounds noticeably different that the Showcase as the analog stage is dramatically different (80 parts plus).

My 1st impressions are very good but I know MY ear prefers to modify the tone controls a touch to adapt to my ear, room, and speakers. The 50S2 has base, treble, 3 band notch filters, top and low EQ adjustments. I needed to adjust with all of these settings to get the exact sound to my liking. It is also not simply about EQing. I have learned I cannot simply EQ in a dynamics (for instance) as it needed to be their while the response is flat. Saying this, I did a quick Tone Control adjustment on the IR and it certainly helped get to my personal liking (3 minutes worth of adjustments yesterday) but I have more experimenting to do. Without question, the IR has an impressive sound. I very much want this to work as it is a feature rich product with all the bells and whistles at a "reasonable price" considering the competition. It has a very good chance to work for me but I need to spend some time with it.

I will have more to report over the next couple days.:)

Thanks for your observations on the IR. We look forward to reading more.

The popping sounds I heard from the B&K were at full volume out of the rear and side surround speakers and they lasted for several seconds. My B&K Ref 20 makes a brief popping sound when switching inputs or surround modes, but those are at a very low volume and I hardly notice it. I am also aware of the Ref 50 S1 relay switching and it wasn't that. Now that I think about it, the dealer had just hooked up an older model Integra DVD player which may have caused the problem.

Brian

Audio dropouts update: extraordinary customer service from my dealer and IR: they will replace my unit again! The new one will have the latest firmware and I should get it this week. Wow!!!

R

Is IR picking up the tab for shipping these units back and forth?

Originally posted by bkzoller
Is IR picking up the tab for shipping these units back and forth?

Yes, once the new unit arrives at my dealer I drive there and we swap the units, I myself don't pay anything. When I bought the RDC-7.1 the dealer told me to contact him if I have any problems with it, he can take care of problems very quickly, A+++.

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
Yes, once the new unit arrives at my dealer I drive there and we swap the units, I myself don't pay anything. When I bought the RDC-7.1 the dealer told me to contact him if I have any problems with it, he can take care of problems very quickly, A+++.

R

After the differences in the sound of your 7.1s up til now, I will be very interested in hearing what the third (? am I keeping count right?) one sounds like.

Miss your D1 yet?:confused:

Originally posted by DoctorO
After the differences in the sound of your 7.1s up til now, I will be very interested in hearing what the third (? am I keeping count right?) one sounds like.

Miss your D1 yet?:confused:

I too am curious if there's any difference in sound. My first D1 was defective and Anthem replaced it, the second one was fine.

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
I too am curious if there's any difference in sound. My first D1 was defective and Anthem replaced it, the second one was fine.

R

You officially have had the worst luck with processors on the forum. Good luck with the new unit.

John

Again, this is why units should not be made with cards slapped into them. I cannot believe that any form of decent QA testing can be done on units that are plug and play by users. IR has these units waiting to be sold to customers based on the modules they select. Then, these modules are slapped in and shipped to the user. How can you do any serious testing on a platform like this?

Raz, I don't understand how you're willing to put up with IR. Three units, three, 3, trois and you shot Anthem down for what exactly? Good Luck but three strikes and IR is out Raz. Go back to the D1........I'm convinced......after the upgrade.....it will be a superior unit. It's all in the planning.......Anthem is not premature. IR is premature now with HDMI?

We don' know for sure that the second unit was defective. It was shipped with an older firmware, and IR does not (yet?) allow the dealer or end user to upgrade the firmware. Razvanel is also good at beta testing for the pre/pro manufacturers and they should start paying for his services. :)

Brian

Originally posted by Expletive
You officially have had the worst luck with processors on the forum. Good luck with the new unit.

Raz. You are truly one of a kind. :D

2 Anthem, 3 Integra Research. That's 5 units in a couple of months...

At least, with Anthem, you don't have to "exchange" your unit to have the newest firmware upgrade... ;) Just kidding. :D

It seems that, at least based on Raz' experience(s)(!), the RDC-7.1 is Not Ready For Prime Time.

:(

Originally posted by MStanic
Again, this is why units should not be made with cards slapped into them. I cannot believe that any form of decent QA testing can be done on units that are plug and play by users. IR has these units waiting to be sold to customers based on the modules they select. Then, these modules are slapped in and shipped to the user. How can you do any serious testing on a platform like this?

Raz, I don't understand how you're willing to put up with IR. Three units, three, 3, trois and you shot Anthem down for what exactly? Good Luck but three strikes and IR is out Raz. Go back to the D1........I'm convinced......after the upgrade.....it will be a superior unit. It's all in the planning.......Anthem is not premature. IR is premature now with HDMI?

I agree that the cards design is a QC nightmare - I have no idea how they can test the units thoroughly...

I really don't know what I'm going to do if the third RDC-7.1 turns out to be defective. Going back to the D1? The D1 sound is a little too detailed and forward for my liking.

R

Originally posted by bkzoller
We don' know for sure that the second unit was defective. It was shipped with an older firmware, and IR does not (yet?) allow the dealer or end user to upgrade the firmware. Razvanel is also good at beta testing for the pre/pro manufacturers and they should start paying for his services. :)

Brian

Brian,

True, we don't know for sure if the second unit was defective or not. I actually asked IR to upgrade the firmware on my unit but they decided to replace it instead.

I do test my units thoroughly, once I buy a processor I spend hours and hours each day for a couple of weeks testing it. I usually find most problems within a day or two. The hardest to "find" were the shutdown problem with the D1 when the source was a Panasonic DVD player and the audio dropouts on the RDC-7.1 - it was hard to say if the RDC-7.1 was at fault or the problem was with the source especially when OTA broadcasts often have audio dropouts.

R

Am I the only one who thinks that a card design is *better* for QC?

You don't need to put together an entire processor to check a card for functionality problems. You hook it up to a test jig that can test all of its functions. *That* to me is entirely easier. It is *much* easier to trouble problems at the component level than at the system level.

As for programming third-party remotes for these Integra/Integra Research flywheel thingies (I abhor them), I did an MX-800 and Pronto Pro for the Integra DTR-10.5...no problem. You don't program a flywheel transition, just the codes for each of the selections. It's annoying to have to turn the wheel to a new selection to generate the code for learning, but hey.

Fortunately, most of the codes are already in the IR database for the MX remotes.

Eric

Originally posted by Kevin C Brown
Am I the only one who thinks that a card design is *better* for QC?

You don't need to put together an entire processor to check a card for functionality problems. You hook it up to a test jig that can test all of its functions. *That* to me is entirely easier. It is *much* easier to trouble problems at the component level than at the system level.

I also think it is a superior design for several reasons. If their buss system is properly designed, it should be able to accommodate modules which haven't even been thought of yet. It provides a highly customizable platform with each user (pretty much) buying only those functions/modules which he or she needs with the ability to add or swap out modules later as their needs change. As for QC'ing, it should be easier; check that all the busses are operational and connectors electrically functional for the units themselves. And the modules should be easy to QC, too. Or at least, you'd think. :o

Originally posted by Razvanel
Brian,

True, we don't know for sure if the second unit was defective or not. I actually asked IR to upgrade the firmware on my unit but they decided to replace it instead.

I do test my units thoroughly, once I buy a processor I spend hours and hours each day for a couple of weeks testing it. I usually find most problems within a day or two. The hardest to "find" were the shutdown problem with the D1 when the source was a Panasonic DVD player and the audio dropouts on the RDC-7.1 - it was hard to say if the RDC-7.1 was at fault or the problem was with the source especially when OTA broadcasts often have audio dropouts.

R

I have had a chance to to do some more serious listening of the 7.1 including looking at the audio dropouts, ILINK, tone controls, and over all performance.:)

For starters, I heard a total of 3 drop outs during the Superbowl (maybe more because I was the host and I was running around out of the room a lot.) In all fairness, it happened on OTA transmissions with the B&K as well over the past several months. I own the 921 DISH Network box and I bought it just before they dropped the price (my luck) this fall so it should have later firmware. If you want to talk about buggy, the Dish 921 box needs to be soaked in Raid!!!:mad: This box locks-up, losses its switch settings, won't recognize the remote sometimes. It requires me to unplug it and remove the card (a weekly ritual). I have no idea how a company release a product this bad. It is not like I had to look for these bugs which is bothersome. They were glaring and obvious. Even the silver paint had obvious flaws (a 1/16" black bump). I diverge... My bet is the problem is the Dish box or the OTA signal.
I have so far watched 3 DVD movies with perfect audio performance (no drop outs) and watched the American Idol (no comments please but it is my favorite show) in HDTV OTA last night without any issue. When the audio drop out happens again in OTA, I will rewind my hard drive to see if the drop out is repeatable. Since the B&K did it, this is why I am assuming the dropouts are a problem with the OTA signal or my buggy Dish 921. My re-wind idea just came to me so I never tried it on the B&K before either.
As far as the IRLINK, I open-up the manual and read verifying that the player was enabled, the DVD source was enabled on the processor etc. Still no luck and I have and IR DVD Player. I am using Version 1.03 and 1.01 on the ILINK board. When I play a disk, and set the processor to DVD, I see both systems talking as "searching ILINK" scrolls across both units. I see this when the player is turned on and running an SACD and I do a hard power boot-up of the processor. Then BOTH units start to flash this "ILINK" statement. They are talking but I am not getting audio. I will give IR a call when they open. One thing is for sure, it is not in the manual.:confused:

Some more audio performance tidbits....:)

Some how by ignorance, factory default, or whatever I had the DTS setting to PCM-DTS on the player. I quickly figured this out and put it to the correct setting on the DVD player and as you might expect things popped into high gear!:D
I sat and re-ran "There's a Whole in the World Tonight" Eagles DTS DVD (black and white video that sound ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE!) I adjusted the tone controls to my liking and adjusted the speaker crossovers to hit the sound I liked. Things got a lot closer to my liking by bumping up the center and mid-bass which adds a level of fullness.:) My daughter walked down stairs asking me to not play the song again (I was on the same song 6 times during adjustments).
I know that the frequesncy response s not flat when I do the tone controls but my ear prefers this and this feature is essential for me. (The Krell, Denon, and B&K have similar features and misterously my 2nd and third systems are a Denon and I pulled out the B&K for this evaluation. Before that it was the Krell 7.1.)

I own a Velo DD-15 so the bottom frequencies are flat using the 6 band EQ. I put to use the 3 bands of notch filters on the B&K in the 150 to 300 HZ range as I some nodes. The Integra uses one band which will help reduce one of the bumps but it does not look like they have a built in tone generator so I will be reaching for a CD to give it a try.

I will call Integra on the ILINK to see what I am doing wrong...

ILINK SOULTION FOUND:

While I was typing this I was on hold for tech support. As I suspected, the answer was not in the manual. What you need to do is hit the "AudioSEL" key on the bottom row of the remote (2nd key to the right) scrolling until you see ILINK on the vacuum floresent display. I did that and WA-LA, Audio!!!! I disconnected my coax input and the audio is now working perfectly.:) :) :)

Cool thanks for trouble shooting that for us :) Seems ridiculous that in a 150 page manual they couldn't find a spot to squeeze that little tidbit in!!

TM

I agree with Kevin and pepar on the bus / card approach. Most all the computing systems on the planet follow this approach. It all comes down to the bus / card design and implementation. The philosophy is sound.

The focus of this thread has primarily been the RDC-7.1, but SteveH also has the RDV-1.1 as well (I think). Steve, how has the DVD player been performing on video? Secrets is supposed to include this unit (or one of its Onkyo Corp. cousins) in a future review. I have seen little to no reviews anywhere at all for this unit nor much in the way of forum posts (the cousins have had some airplay however).

Originally posted by SteveH
Since the B&K did it, this is why I am assuming the dropouts are a problem with the OTA signal or my buggy Dish 921.

For OTA I use the antenna on the house which is connected to my Panasonic plasma and Dish 811 receiver via a splitter so both the plasma and the 811 get the same signal. Both the Panny and the 811 are digitally connected to my RDC-7.1 via optical cables. With the same signal and on the same channels I got dropouts when I use the Panny optical out but not when I use the 811 optical out so at first I thought that it was a problem with the plasma optical output. I replaced the RDC-7.1 with an Onkyo receiver and got no dropouts at all. So it must a problem with the RDC-7.1.

No dropouts at all when I play DVD's.

R

Originally posted by SteveH

I am using Version 1.03 and 1.01 on the ILINK board.

Just to make sure: you mean MASTER version 1.03? When was your RDC-7.1 made? November 2004? My first unit was manufactured December 2004 and had master version 1.04. The second one was manufactured November 2004 and had master version 1.03.

I was told that my third unit will come with the latest firmware versions.

R

Originally posted by SteveH

I adjusted the tone controls to my liking and adjusted the speaker crossovers to hit the sound I liked. Things got a lot closer to my liking by bumping up the center and mid-bass which adds a level of fullness.:)

The RDC-7.1 sound is a mystery to me: the two RDC--7.1 units that I've had so far sound completely different. The first one was slightly bright and a little "thin". The second one - the one with the dropouts problem - is very warm and full sounding. In fact, my second RDC-7.1 is the best sounding processor I have ever heard, easily beating the RDC-7, the Anthem D1, and my first RDC-7.1. I hope that the third RDC-7.1 will be problem free and sound as good as my second RDC-7.1.

R

Originally posted by anthonymoody
Cool thanks for trouble shooting that for us :) Seems ridiculous that in a 150 page manual they couldn't find a spot to squeeze that little tidbit in!!

TM

Lost In Translation

:)

Is anybody using the iLink/FireWire/IEEE1394 connection of the RDC-7.1 with a non-IR (or non-Onkyo) DVD?

Should I start a new thread or are most present RDC-7.1 owners monitoring this thread? He77. how many RDC-7.1 owners ARE there?

Krobar is using a European model Pioneer DVD player with the RDC-7.1 using iLink. He posted in another thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=498635

Brian

Originally posted by bkzoller
Krobar is using a European model Pioneer DVD player with the RDC-7.1 using iLink. He posted in another thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=498635

Brian

Thank you, Brian. Guess I need to mouse up to "search" more often. :D

None of the four San Francisco Bay Area dealers I contacted have any pricing or ordering info. Available in LA but not here, hmmmm.

Originally posted by gimp
None of the four San Francisco Bay Area dealers I contacted have any pricing or ordering info. Available in LA but not here, hmmmm.


hmmm, indeed.

Razvanel, I physically got my 7.1 last week (hot off the press and since I am an IR dealer, it was not sitting on a shelf as it was also custom made to order). Master version is 1.03. 1.01 for ILINK, 1.00 on everything else. I have no idea what 1.04 has on it over 1.03 (tech support did not know or that is was coming out either).

ssblount, I frankly did not do A-B comparisons on the player over my 3910 but I did use the 1.1 since they sent me one of those and I did not have time to download the firmware on the 3910 to get it to sing with ILINK (I have a 1st shipment Denon 3910). I did notice that my 3910 did not have the Macro blocking issue over my previous 5900. My eye picks-up on problems (artifacts, bleached out colors etc). No issues were noticed on the IR 1.1. I found it to be extremely nice.

I would like to burn an action disk and do an A-B comparison where I see problems just to compare but I won't be doing that any time soon as I have a busy week (and weekend).

I need to confess.... I am no where near as critical on the video as I am on the audio side. I can handle A- video performance but can only accept A+ audio for my system which drives me to test and research different solutions and brands. The IR1.1 may very well be best in class. I will leave that in the very capable hands of Chris Deering.:) If I see a video improvement I will of course want it but I am not as motivated to search as I am in audio. My wife very much hopes I could get this Audio passion out of my system as I drive he absolutely nuts! There is no sign of letting up as my "addiction" is getting worse not better.

Originally posted by gimp
None of the four San Francisco Bay Area dealers I contacted have any pricing or ordering info. Available in LA but not here, hmmmm.

I can answer your no "Bay area dealers, hummm".... All dealers needed to resign-up on the IR line in order to sell the 7.1. You will also need to buy the new DVD player and the amp. They want to make sure they are well represented and I completely understand this. This is nothing new as many lines require it (Marantz n the Reference line, Krell with their speakers, Meridian with their speakers) and the list goes on. Many dealers might push back and delay as the economy for B&M's are not booming (Custom is booming though). :)
That is my take on it.:)

Originally posted by SteveH
My wife very much hopes I could get this Audio passion out of my system as I drive he absolutely nuts! There is no sign of letting up as my "addiction" is getting worse not better.

<Cliff Claven>It's common knowledge that the more A/V a man has, the more he wants. And the less A/V a man has, the more he wants.</Cliff Claven>

Originally posted by SteveH
I can answer your no "Bay area dealers, hummm".... All dealers needed to resign-up on the IR line in order to sell the 7.1. You will also need to buy the new DVD player and the amp. They want to make sure they are well represented and I completely understand this. This is nothing new as many lines require it (Marantz n the Reference line, Krell with their speakers, Meridian with their speakers) and the list goes on. Many dealers might push back and delay as the economy for B&M's are not booming (Custom is booming though). :)
That is my take on it.:)

Perhaps they are monitoring the A/V forums to see when it is safe to "venture in" and sign up. Why rush to sign up if there are problems?

Originally posted by SteveH
I have no idea what 1.04 has on it over 1.03 (tech support did not know or that is was coming out either).


Interesting, the tech I spoke to knew about 1.04 but told me that the difference between 1.03 and 1.04 was minor and that it didn't affect the performance of the RDC-7.1 in any way.

When was your unit manufactured? November?

R

Didnt the D1 add an audio muting function to deal with audio dropouts when first locking on to a digital bitstream? I think they recommend setting it to MAX for Satellite because that is longest muting time. I dont think this is a real problem at all, just part of locking on to a satellite bitstream.

Raz, "easily beats the D1" is kinda strong. Could you say 'prefer the sound of the 7.1' going forward? Dont want to upset all us Anthem zealots. :D

John

Originally posted by pepar
I also think it is a superior design for several reasons. If their buss system is properly designed, it should be able to accommodate modules which haven't even been thought of yet. It provides a highly customizable platform with each user (pretty much) buying only those functions/modules which he or she needs with the ability to add or swap out modules later as their needs change. As for QC'ing, it should be easier; check that all the busses are operational and connectors electrically functional for the units themselves. And the modules should be easy to QC, too. Or at least, you'd think. :o

Agreed that Raz's story isnt a runnign start but only time will tell whether this card-based product model works or not. And it really needs to work on the IR side and the customer side.

If this turns out to be a support and QC nightmare for IR you can be sure the news will get out and deter others manufacturers from following suit.

If users find that they really dont come out with anything new down the road anyway that makes it worthwhile, they wont see the value in it either, stop buying it, nullifying any competitive edge IR has by using it.

For me, sound quality and support rule all. For the one or two times i would need to send a non-modular unit back for a hardware upgrade, its not worth compromising in any other regard imo.

John

Originally posted by Expletive
Didnt the D1 add an audio muting function to deal with audio dropouts when first locking on to a digital bitstream? I think they recommend setting it to MAX for Satellite because that is longest muting time. I dont think this is a real problem at all, just part of locking on to a satellite bitstream.

The RDC-7.1 doesn't have an audio muting function.

The problem is that my first RDC-7.1 didn't have any problems locking on to the OTA bitstream. The Onkyo 702 receiver I tried was also fine.

R

Originally posted by Expletive

Raz, "easily beats the D1" is kinda strong. Could you say 'prefer the sound of the 7.1' going forward? Dont want to upset all us Anthem zealots. :D
John

John,

Sorry! - I prefer the sound of my second RDC-7.1.

Now, how is the RDC-7.1 supposed to sound? Slightly bright, neutral, warm? There was a night and day difference between my two RDC-7.1's, I'm confused.

R

Drop Out Update:
I was watching some OTA signals on the American Idol on Fox last night in HDTV and had two drop out. :( The 921 Dish box has built in Hard Drive and I played it over twice and heard it both times at the exact same spot. Hence,it is repeatable suggesting to me an issue with my 921 box (or more probably) the OTA signal. At least in my home, the dropouts are not IR related.:)

Originally posted by Expletive
Agreed that Raz's story isnt a runnign start but only time will tell whether this card-based product model works or not. And it really needs to work on the IR side and the customer side.

If this turns out to be a support and QC nightmare for IR you can be sure the news will get out and deter others manufacturers from following suit.

If users find that they really dont come out with anything new down the road anyway that makes it worthwhile, they wont see the value in it either, stop buying it, nullifying any competitive edge IR has by using it.

For me, sound quality and support rule all. For the one or two times i would need to send a non-modular unit back for a hardware upgrade, its not worth compromising in any other regard imo.

John

I believe IR has the desire and resources to make this - future upgradability - work. They took a good run at it with the RDC-7, and the A/V press touted that feature, perhaps too much. But, after a few upgrades, IR found the "future" came at them faster and more complex than they had imagined. The modular design has the best chance at actually achieving the goal. The same principle has worked for the PC for decades. Nonetheless, a superior design still depends on proper execution to be successful. And the patience of the users should not be taxed too much by weak customer service.

Don't forget guys that the 7.1 is not the first card-cage designed pre/pro on the market. The Theta Casablance (SEVEN years ago when I got my CBI !!!) and Meridian 861 (5? years ago) have been doing this for a long time. This is just the first one that's "reasonably" priced. Not to say that there's any particular reason to think that IR learned anything from Theta or Meridian from their respective experiences, though you never know.

Theta has been abysmally slow (IMO) in bringing cards with new features to market, and has completely overhauled the interior twice along the way (i.e. now the CBIII). Yes they made upgrades available :) The other problem with Theta is that the newer cards/features were relatively expen$ive.

Meridian seems to have been a little better (actually a LOT better on the software upgrade side) than Theta. But also expensive and also at the trailing end of the timeframe for adding certain functionality.

We must hope that IR is both faster and cheaper with additional cards over time.

TM

Methinks that there is a buiilt-in corporate predisposition to sell more NEW units and selling more CARDS to upgrade EXISTING units flys in the face of that. Theta and Meridian being in the nosebleed group anyway was/is not about to give away those cards . . which upgrade existing units . . preventing them from selling more NEW units. If IR pulls this off successfully and follows up with new modules in a timely fashion and at reasonable prices, it will undoubtably shake up the high-end A/V market. IMHO, the RDC-7 was a "shaker" when it debuted.

Originally posted by SteveH
Drop Out Update:
I was watching some OTA signals on the American Idol on Fox last night in HDTV and had two drop out. :( The 921 Dish box has built in Hard Drive and I played it over twice and heard it both times at the exact same spot. Hence,it is repeatable suggesting to me an issue with my 921 box (or more probably) the OTA signal. At least in my home, the dropouts are not IR related.:)

It might or it might not be an issue with the 921/OTA signal. It's possible that the RDC-7.1 has problems receiving certain signals while other receivers/processors don't. I wish we could download new firmware upgrades from IR's site. Maybe 1.04 is the answer to my - our? - dropouts problem.

I had one dropout on Monday while watching 24 on Fox HD and 5 dropouts yesterday on Lost on ABC HD .

R

I'm not using an RDC-7.1, nor OTA HD, but I get regular audio dropouts on some local HD "OTA" channels over my cable. NBC seems to be more afflicted than the others with CBS being second.

Originally posted by pepar
I'm not using an RDC-7.1, nor OTA HD, but I get regular audio dropouts on some local HD "OTA" channels over my cable. NBC seems to be more afflicted than the others with CBS being second.

It's very easy for me to test the RDC-7.1 for dropouts: whenever I switch channels from 18-1 to 18-2 or from 18-2 to 18-1 I get 2 or 3 dropouts on the RDC-7.1. Didn't get any dropouts at all with the Onkyo 702 receiver.

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
It's very easy for me to test the RDC-7.1 for dropouts: whenever I switch channels from 18-1 to 18-2 or from 18-2 to 18-1 I get 2 or 3 dropouts on the RDC-7.1. Didn't get any dropouts at all with the Onkyo 702 receiver.

R

That does sound specific to your RDC-7.1. Only on those channel changes?

Originally posted by pepar
That does sound specific to your RDC-7.1. Only on those channel changes?

I do experience dropouts on other channels as well but they are intermittent. The dropouts on channels 18-1 and 18-2 happen all the time.

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
I do experience dropouts on other channels as well but they are intermittent. The dropouts on channels 18-1 and 18-2 happen all the time.

R

I've not followed the "dropout issue" that closely on this thread; are others experiencing random audio dropouts on most/all HD channels? As I mentioned, I get them on local channels HD broadcasts carried on our cable system. DISC-HD, PBS-HD, ESPN-HD et al are 100% dropout free.

Originally posted by Gaara
Good find Phil Rose! Hmm, page 93, bottom left, subwoofer mode. "LFE only: The subwoofer outputs only LFE (Low Frequency Effect) information.
D. Bass: The subwoofer outputs not only LFE (Low Frequency Effect) factors but also bass sounds from the front speakers."


I've been reading about subwoofers the past couple weeks and went back to find this post. Some people prefer not to mix sound from the crossed-over main speakers with the LFE track. They argue that they might want to use, for example, a 12" sub for both music and movies and an 15" or 18" sub just for LFE in movies. They claim that configuration puts less strain on the 12" sub by allowing it to play just the low bass and not the LFE.

It looks like that configuration wouldn't work on this unit without a third option for routing the just the crossover output to one sub, leaving out the LFE. Apparently the Lexicon MC-12 goes a step further and allows for stereo subs plus an LFE sub on separate outputs.

Brian

Originally posted by anthonymoody
Don't forget guys that the 7.1 is not the first card-cage designed pre/pro on the market. The Theta Casablance (SEVEN years ago when I got my CBI !!!) and Meridian 861 (5? years ago) have been doing this for a long time. This is just the first one that's "reasonably" priced. Not to say that there's any particular reason to think that IR learned anything from Theta or Meridian from their respective experiences, though you never know.

Theta has been abysmally slow (IMO) in bringing cards with new features to market, and has completely overhauled the interior twice along the way (i.e. now the CBIII). Yes they made upgrades available :) The other problem with Theta is that the newer cards/features were relatively expen$ive.

Meridian seems to have been a little better (actually a LOT better on the software upgrade side) than Theta. But also expensive and also at the trailing end of the timeframe for adding certain functionality.

We must hope that IR is both faster and cheaper with additional cards over time.

TM

Yes but i believe the 7.1 is the first unit that will allow users to install their own hardware upgrades via cards. I believe you need ot send the CB and merdiains in for upgrades. So as far as i'm concerned if you need to send the thing in anyway for upgrades it may as well not be a card design, theres no end user benefit.

If CB is any indication, then IR could be in for a bumpy ride. Many CB owners had constant lockups and issues until they rewrote all the software from scratch for the CB III.

And yes, the meridian stuff has tended to lag, not that i could afford either of these units to really follow it that closely... :)

John

Originally posted by Expletive
Yes but i believe the 7.1 is the first unit that will allow users to install their own hardware upgrades via cards. I believe you need ot send the CB and merdiains in for upgrades. So as far as i'm concerned if you need to send the thing in anyway for upgrades it may as well not be a card design, theres no end user benefit.

John

Indeed, it makes it easier for the manufacturer, but not the user. Ergo, at those prices, it merely makes it more profitable for the manufacturer. If I thought about this further, I'd probably start sounding cynical. :)

Does the 7.1 only come in silver???

Doctor O,
So far yes (I believe).

On the upgrade/pricing issue, this gets back to that point about a different pricing structure for user-installed set ups vs. dealer installed. Did anyone ever get to the bottom of that or was it just speculation?

TM

Are you referring to the $200 "build charge" that I mentioned earlier? The original source for that information was a letter to an Integra dealer, IIRC. It was supposed to be charged by the manufacturer for installing the modules versus allowing the user to do it. The dealer was not involved in installing the modules or in adding the extra charge. The only way to know for sure if that report was true would be if someone got an itemized invoice for the RDC-7.1 showing an extra charge which was separate from the module costs.

Brian

Originally posted by bkzoller
Are you referring to the $200 "build charge" that I mentioned earlier? The original source for that information was a letter to an Integra dealer, IIRC. It was supposed to be charged by the manufacturer for installing the modules versus allowing the user to do it. The dealer was not involved in installing the modules or in adding the extra charge. The only way to know for sure if that report was true would be if someone got an itemized invoice for the RDC-7.1 showing an extra charge which was separate from the module costs.

Brian

I'd imagine (hope) that if they charged extra to build it, they'd QC it en toto as well.