Originally posted by bkzoller
Are you referring to the $200 "build charge" that I mentioned earlier? The original source for that information was a letter to an Integra dealer, IIRC. It was supposed to be charged by the manufacturer for installing the modules versus allowing the user to do it. The dealer was not involved in installing the modules or in adding the extra charge. The only way to know for sure if that report was true would be if someone got an itemized invoice for the RDC-7.1 showing an extra charge which was separate from the module costs.

Brian

Brian,

Have you received your RDC-7.1?

R

Re: the build charge... Currently IR does not charge for this service (they may never) but it is listed on the cost sheet. If a person buys a card later their is no upcharge buying individual boards.:)

Re: Audio drop outs on OTA.... I can switch my OTA channels up and down without an issue. Worse case, it takes a second or two to "lock" in.

Originally posted by Razvanel
Brian,

Have you received your RDC-7.1?

R

Unfortunately, no. The shipper drop-kicked and punctured the box on its way to the dealer. :( The dealer is ordering a replacement from the manufacturer. I was informed of this yesterday. Are these things double boxed?

Brian

Originally posted by bkzoller
Unfortunately, no. The shipper drop-kicked and punctured the box on its way to the dealer. :( The dealer is ordering a replacement from the manufacturer. I was informed of this yesterday.

Brian

The shipper is probably FedEx, what a pain. Ask the dealer to ask IR to ship the RDC-7.1 double boxed this time. IR doesn't normally ship its units double boxed.

R

Originally posted by SteveH
Re: the build charge... Currently IR does not charge for this service (they may never) but it is listed on the cost sheet. If a person buys a card later their is no upcharge buying individual boards.:)

Re: Audio drop outs on OTA.... I can switch my OTA channels up and down without an issue. Worse case, it takes a second or two to "lock" in.

Steve,

What is the MSRP for each module?

About the dropouts: then my unit is probably defective and firmware 1.04 has nothing to do with fixing dropouts.

R

Originally posted by SteveH
Re: the build charge... Currently IR does not charge for this service (they may never) but it is listed on the cost sheet. If a person buys a card later their is no upcharge buying individual boards.:)


One dealer told me that whether IR charges that for the service may depend on the dealer's sales volume. It's good to know that I can purchase an extra module later for the same cost as including that module with the original purchase. :)

Brian

Originally posted by Razvanel
The shipper is probably FedEx, what a pain. Ask the dealer to ask IR to ship the RDC-7.1 double boxed this time. IR doesn't normally ship its units double boxed.

R

I spoke with the dealer later in the afternoon and he said the box had forklift holes in it! :rolleyes: He was so mad about it that he had to leave the office that day. Apparently the box was also damaged in other ways so it may have gotten dropped. It sounds pretty clear that the shipper was at fault. He doesn't think IR will ship it in a double box but he will ask.

Brian

Originally posted by bkzoller
I spoke with the dealer later in the afternoon and he said the box had forklift holes in it! :rolleyes: He was so mad about it that he had to leave the office that day. Apparently the box was also damaged in other ways so it may have gotten dropped. It sounds pretty clear that the shipper was at fault. He doesn't think IR will ship it in a double box but he will ask.

Brian

That's really bad luck. I wonder how these things work: now FedEx has to pay IR $5000?

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
So FedEx has to pay IR $5000?
Knowing FedEx, they'll probably contend that IR was negligent in its packaging practices.

Michael

Originally posted by Michael Mohrmann
Knowing FedEx, they'll probably contend that IR was negligent in its packaging practices.

Michael

And to prove it, they ran it through with a forklift?

All I can say is from personal experience with getting a lot of packages delivered to me, is that Fed-Ex is a LOT better than UPS is! Because no matter what I get delivered by UPS, it almost always ends up at the least looking like it was kicked around in a soccer match. And those are what some of the better looking packages look like when they finally arrive...

Originally posted by pepar
And to prove it, they ran it through with a forklift?
I guess I needed to add the {sarcasm} tag to my post.

Having dealt twice with FedEx on damaged packages delivered to our house, and having the sellers and us lose both claims, I have little faith in the insurance process with FedEx.

Michael

Originally posted by Johnla
All I can say is from personal experience with getting a lot of packages delivered to me, is that Fed-Ex is a LOT better than UPS is!
It seems from most of the stories I have read, this appears to be true. Except for us! We've had well over 100 UPS deliveries to our house, including a HT processor and amplifiers, and none of the packages ever were damaged. We've had about 15-20 FedEx deliveries to our house, and we have had to make two claims for package (and content) damage. The sellers and us lost both of those claims with FedEx.

Michael

Personally and from work experiences, both Fed Ex and UPS are very good at getting things there undamaged. Fed Ex Ground, formerly RPS, is horrible, as is DHL. Claims are never fun with any carrier, but UPS seems to a liitle easier to deal with on that issue. YMMV.

Gemstone amps which weigh 100 pounds go DHL; ours did, and it went well; those folks have more confidence in DHL than the others. We had a top-of-the-line record cleaning machine arrive broken, torn open, and wet via UPS, and we had UPS manage to damage a receiver that was double-boxed. We've had FedEx leave packages at the roadside, half a mile from our house. For all of them, hold your breath and pray! Now we'd better get back to topic...

Originally posted by DoctorO
Gemstone amps which weigh 100 pounds go DHL; ours did, and it went well; those folks have more confidence in DHL than the others. We had a top-of-the-line record cleaning machine arrive broken, torn open, and wet via UPS, and we had UPS manage to damage a receiver that was double-boxed. We've had FedEx leave packages at the roadside, half a mile from our house. For all of them, hold your breath and pray! Now we'd better get back to topic...

Well DoctorO I'd like to think DHL is better but one customer had his Gemstone left on the curb in the rain (the driver refused to walk it to the door and his Girl friend was left to struggle with it). Another had his dropped in from of his eyes. For these reasons, we quickly changed to double boxing.
Another amp simply disappeared on the RADAR screen.:confused: I'm picturing a driver having better than average Radio Schack speakers about now.;)

Originally posted by DoctorO
Gemstone amps which weigh 100 pounds go DHL; ours did, and it went well; those folks have more confidence in DHL than the others. We had a top-of-the-line record cleaning machine arrive broken, torn open, and wet via UPS, and we had UPS manage to damage a receiver that was double-boxed. We've had FedEx leave packages at the roadside, half a mile from our house. For all of them, hold your breath and pray! Now we'd better get back to topic...

Not to refute your overall point, but DHL may be expensive than UPS and Fed Ex. More likely, they've probably given Gemstone a special contract. Don't know if that indicates that they have more confidence in them. My real point here is that everyone's experiences vary. Regionally, perhaps. There may be "problem" areas where the handlers don't give a s**t and if your package passes through their hands, you're likely to have a bad experience. And one bad experience can overshadow a dozen uneventful ones.

More on the dropouts issue: for the first time I noticed dropouts while changing channels on my Dish 811 receiver. On Fox HD the dropouts were continuous, one every 2 seconds. I'm pretty sure that my RDC-7.1 is defective as I didn't have any dropouts problems with my first RDC-7.1 and SteveH didn't experience any dropouts with his 1.03 RDC-7.1 while changing channels on his Dish 921 receiver.

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
More on the dropouts issue: for the first time I noticed dropouts while changing channels on my Dish 811 receiver. On Fox HD the dropouts were continuous, one every 2 seconds. I'm pretty sure that my RDC-7.1 is defective as I didn't have any dropouts problems with my first RDC-7.1 and SteveH didn't experience any dropouts with his 1.03 RDC-7.1 while changing channels on his Dish 921 receiver.

R

Is this on unit #3 or from unit #2?

John

Originally posted by Expletive
Is this on unit #3 or from unit #2?

John

Unit #2, I haven't received unit #3 yet.

R

I think shipping experiences vary too. I had my Integra and EAD Powermaster delivered from the US to the UK with UPS, both arrived in good condition and in only 4 working days.

Ive just hooked up a couple of channels on the amp and about to give this combo a go. :)

I think the only way to be sure is to buy something big enough where they have to strap it to a pallette. :)

John

Raz,
What's the estimated timing on #3? Interested in your findings.

TM

Originally posted by anthonymoody
Raz,
What's the estimated timing on #3? Interested in your findings.

TM

Maybe next week.

R

Well ive been listening for a few days now and the result is a very bright sound.

I cant believe its so bright, my setup is as follows:
Pioneer DV-868AVI (DV-59AVI) via I-Link to
RDC-7.1 using Nordorst Solar Wind balanced connections to
EAD Powermaster 7300 using QED Silver Anniversary wire to
Mordaunt Short 500 Series Speakers

Voices are very clear and imaging too is excellent but the sound is fatiguing and sharp. I tried using unbalanced connections but there was way too much noise. Ive been playing with the tone controls but cant seem to get it right. Does anyone have any ideas?

My old setup was the same but used a Pioneer 49TXI instead of the Integra and EAD, without MCACC engaged the sound was a bit dull.

Originally posted by Krobar
Well ive been listening for a few days now and the result is a very bright sound.
Voices are very clear and imaging too is excellent but the sound is fatiguing and sharp.

My first RDC-7.1 was slightly bright - not as bright as the Anthem D1 but still bright. The second RDC-7.1 is VERY warm, the difference in sound between the two RDC-7.1's is day/night. My dealer's RDC-7.1 sounded a little bright to me and a friend of mine who has the RDC-7 heard the RDC-7.1 at another dealer and he too thought that the RDC-7.1's sound was bright.

Maybe the RDC-7.1 is supposed to have a bright sound and my second unit is an anomaly.

R

Originally posted by Krobar
Well ive been listening for a few days now and the result is a very bright sound.

I cant believe its so bright, my setup is as follows:
Pioneer DV-868AVI (DV-59AVI) via I-Link to
RDC-7.1 using Nordorst Solar Wind balanced connections to
EAD Powermaster 7300 using QED Silver Anniversary wire to
Mordaunt Short 500 Series Speakers

Voices are very clear and imaging too is excellent but the sound is fatiguing and sharp. I tried using unbalanced connections but there was way too much noise. Ive been playing with the tone controls but cant seem to get it right. Does anyone have any ideas?

My old setup was the same but used a Pioneer 49TXI instead of the Integra and EAD, without MCACC engaged the sound was a bit dull.

Hello Krobar,
I have the 7.1 in my system and I would consider it dead on neutral.:) The B&K, Krell 7.1, Lexicon are a touch more forward in comparison. EAD, Parasound, and Arcam are warmer than the Integra.

If your processor is bright, you have a problem. What prepro did you have before?

Steve,

This is my first pre pro. I went from a Pioneer 49txi to the Integra and EAD. The Pioneer was a touch dull with MCACC disabled, the new combo seems very bright. Voices are much clearer and imaging is way better with the new setup but it is very bright IMO. The fatigue could be just down to me listening at higher volumes than was possible with the Pioneer, im not sure but it definitely sounds alot brighter.

Im now running with -5 treble and -2 mid on the fronts and it helps.

Originally posted by Krobar
Well ive been listening for a few days now and the result is a very bright sound.

I cant believe its so bright, my setup is as follows:
Pioneer DV-868AVI (DV-59AVI) via I-Link to
RDC-7.1 using Nordorst Solar Wind balanced connections to
EAD Powermaster 7300 using QED Silver Anniversary wire to
Mordaunt Short 500 Series Speakers

Voices are very clear and imaging too is excellent but the sound is fatiguing and sharp. I tried using unbalanced connections but there was way too much noise. Ive been playing with the tone controls but cant seem to get it right. Does anyone have any ideas?

My old setup was the same but used a Pioneer 49TXI instead of the Integra and EAD, without MCACC engaged the sound was a bit dull.

Have you tried a different source, another DVD player, someone else's DVD player, different interlink cables and/or a different input. Digital coaxial (OR OPTICAL) instead of ilLink?

Ive tried my Jukebox, LD and Sat Reciver (All Optical). They are all bright too, the Jukebox slightly more so and LD less so (LD was duller on the Pioneer too for some reason).

As for interconnects the only ones I seem to be able to find balanced in UK within my price range were the Chord Silver and Nordorst Solarwind, Chord refused to send my dealer a sample although I did try both the Nordorst Solar Wind and Blue Heaven, the difference was a small bass increase with the Blue heavens which I decided was not worth the extra cash.

I really dont understand the brightness. do you think I have a faulty unit or just had wrong expectations of how the Integra EAD combo would behave?

Where did you buy it, locally? If so, perhaps the dealer would let you try his. If you didn't buy "locally," write to whomever you bought it from. Any other UK RDC-7.1 owners nearby? (You're in UK, aren't you?)

Originally posted by Krobar

I really dont understand the brightness.

Maybe that's how the RDC-7.1 is supposed to sound: bright. The Anthem D1 for example has a bright sound. Some people like bright sound others don't.

R

Originally posted by Krobar
Steve,

This is my first pre pro. I went from a Pioneer 49txi to the Integra and EAD. The Pioneer was a touch dull with MCACC disabled, the new combo seems very bright. Voices are much clearer and imaging is way better with the new setup but it is very bright IMO. The fatigue could be just down to me listening at higher volumes than was possible with the Pioneer, im not sure but it definitely sounds alot brighter.

Im now running with -5 treble and -2 mid on the fronts and it helps.
-5 on the treble. WOW! What speakers do you own?

Do an A B test in stereo with everything flat. Set up your receiver in stereo to "large" and the same with the EAD/Integra. Use an SPL meter to calibrate the levels making them equal (test it reference level). While I am sure the clarity of your separates could be causing you to think it is "bright", the Integra is absolutely not bright (and the EAD is slightly warm).

Do this comparison at the same levels and I am sure you will conclude that you gained clarity (not brightness). I am guessing you are going a lot higher in volume levels than you realize.:)

Originally posted by SteveH
-Set up your receiver in stereo to "large" and the same with the EAD/Integra.

The RDC-7.1 doesn't have large/small settings.

R

Originally posted by SteveH
the Integra is absolutely not bright

My first RDC-7.1 was bright.

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
The RDC-7.1 doesn't have large/small settings.

R

You're kidding, right? If not, how does one adjust for small and large spkrs?

Instead of "large" speakers, the manual uses the term "full band." For small speakers, one would set the crossover frequency for that pair. This is on page 93 of the PDF version.

Brian

Originally posted by pepar
You're kidding, right? If not, how does one adjust for small and large spkrs?

Integra no longer uses the "large" or "small" terminology. There is a crossover submenu where one can change the crossover from 40 to 150 I think or set the speakers to "full band". I think that by "full band" Integra means "large".

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
Integra no longer uses the "large" or "small" terminology. There is a crossover submenu where one can change the crossover from 40 to 150 I think or set the speakers to "full band". I think that by "full band" Integra means "large".

R

A rose by any other name . . .

Originally posted by pepar
A rose by any other name . . .

The old RDC-7's crossover settings were quite rudimentary and the processor sufferred from the double bass problem, the RDC-7.1 crossover is much improved. The RDC-7.1 also has a double bass setting which can be set on/off.

R

Krobar--What are the build date and firmware versions for your 7.1? Curious...

Pepar,

I bought from California (Integra has been unavailable in the UK for over 2 years). I might ask my dealer but this will be one very pricey shipping exercise if I need to send the unit back ($350 each way).

I unfortunately dont have the reciever to test with (I sold it) but the comparisons I did were in direct/pure mode on both (I dont have an SPL meter), Speaking of SPL I made need to check it out as Im worried about what the seemingly endless poweer reserves of the EAD could do to my hearing, I tried turning it up last night and it just kept going and going and going.

Steve,

The speakers I use are all MS500 series. The fronts are these:
http://www.mordauntshort.com/products/502.html

I watched a film in THX with the treble down last night and only 4 speakers connected, the results were good with plenty of detail and excellent imaging (Voices were clearer than my old setup using a centre), it seems the brghtness is much more of a music problem. Recording like the Tina Turner Private Dancer XRCD sound wonderful while some of the newer compressed recordings sound terrible.

There is a guy here in the UK who has helped me with alot of Lumagen and other issues who does ISF and RIAA calibration, I think I might give him a ring.

DoctorO,

Firmware: 1.03
Build: Nov 04

Originally posted by Krobar
Pepar,

I bought from California (Integra has been unavailable in the UK for over 2 years). I might ask my dealer but this will be one very pricey shipping exercise if I need to send the unit back ($350 each way).

I unfortunately dont have the reciever to test with (I sold it) but the comparisons I did were in direct/pure mode on both (I dont have an SPL meter), Speaking of SPL I made need to check it out as Im worried about what the seemingly endless poweer reserves of the EAD could do to my hearing, I tried turning it up last night and it just kept going and going and going.

Steve,

The speakers I use are all MS500 series. The fronts are these:
http://www.mordauntshort.com/products/502.html

I watched a film in THX with the treble down last night and only 4 speakers connected, the results were good with plenty of detail and excellent imaging (Voices were clearer than my old setup using a centre), it seems the brghtness is much more of a music problem. Recording like the Tina Turner Private Dancer XRCD sound wonderful while some of the newer compressed recordings sound terrible.

There is a guy here in the UK who has helped me with alot of Lumagen and other issues who does ISF and RIAA calibration, I think I might give him a ring.

When you peal back the onion and remove congestion (better amp, better preamp, better speakers) the better recordings sound fantastic while the worse recordings sound worse!:(

Many recordings sound grainy and brittle and a boom box can absolutely sound better with this because it "filters" out all the crap. Recording studios know they need to push the treble and bass for most systems and it sounds better on most systems or it is 'good enough".

You have removed layers of the onion and have to take the good with the bad. If you pick a product "warmer" this hides information but does make the bad material more palatable. Of course, those reference recordings won't sound as good either. Unfortunately, this is the trade-off. Hence, people only like to listen to the good stuff. That is how Arosmith listeners convert to Diana Krall.:eek:
All the best,

Surprisingly the Aerosmith Best Of SACD is one of the good sounding ones :)

Krobar,

If I understand correctly, you did not calibrate output because you did not have an SPL meter. I would think this would be a necessary step to refine your system results and assist in any kind of troubleshooting. I would recommend doing it with any change in equipment, speaker positioning, and even furniture/room conditions. It appears you have made a number of changes. Can you purchase an SPL meter reasonably there or borrow one?

Good luck,
Will

Krobar - SteveH is right about better gear showing off better recordings and revealing the shortcomings of the lesser ones. (Sort of the opposite of a push-up bra, if you will.) Will Gibbons has a good point about finding an SPL meter; it's gotta be cheaper than shipping your IR across the pond. I'd recommend that you do everything you can to troubleshoot your system before turning to shipping it. I'd also try writing to IR about the problem.

Originally posted by pepar
Krobar - SteveH is right about better gear showing off better recordings and revealing the shortcomings of the lesser ones. (Sort of the opposite of a push-up bra, if you will.)

That's an interesting mental image. I think you may have found the cure for upgradeitis. ;)

Brian

Originally posted by bkzoller
That's an interesting mental image. I think you may have found the cure for upgradeitis. ;)

Brian

Guess that would "firmware," eh?

You guys will never believe this: my 3rd unit is DOA.

R

Sorry to hear that Raz.

That's pretty crazy...

Wow, Razvanel. Your streak of bad luck continues. My replacement unit for the one that suffered shipping damage made it to the dealer in one piece. Now they are shipping it to me, so I have my fingers crossed. They forgot to double box it like I asked. :(

Brian

Originally posted by Razvanel
You guys will never believe this: my 3rd unit is DOA.

R

Maybe the cards shook loose in transit? have you tried to take them out and plug them back in one by one?

John

Well, Im beginning to make more progress with the sound on my RDC-7.1. My system had a severe ground loop which it seems the change to balanced interconnects helped to hide but it still seems to have a negative effect on the sound. After disconnecting a few of the offending components im now getting a more balanced sound, about -3 on treble and all else flat makes it right to my ears. Im alot happier but I think Im going to have to sort the rooms wiring before going any further and maybe use some duller speaker wire (QES Silver is bright IMHO). I guess I should feel privellaged to have unit that works properly.

Raz,

Maybe an Integra curse was put on you?

Originally posted by Expletive
Maybe the cards shook loose in transit? have you tried to take them out and plug them back in one by one?

John

John,

The unit was totally dead. Everything looked fine, no loose cards and the box the unit was packed in was in perfect shape. Integra just shipped me a dead unit. I already took it back to the dealer and he ordered a 4th one. He also got a free HDMI module for me.

R

Originally posted by Krobar
Maybe an Integra curse was put on you?

Probably!

R

Originally posted by Krobar
Well, Im beginning to make more progress with the sound on my RDC-7.1. My system had a severe ground loop which it seems the change to balanced interconnects helped to hide but it still seems to have a negative effect on the sound. After disconnecting a few of the offending components im now getting a more balanced sound, about -3 on treble and all else flat makes it right to my ears. Im alot happier but I think Im going to have to sort the rooms wiring before going any further and maybe use some duller speaker wire (QES Silver is bright IMHO). I guess I should feel privellaged to have unit that works properly.

Raz,

Maybe an Integra curse was put on you?

What processor did you have prior to the 7.1, how was the sound on that one?

John

Originally posted by Razvanel
John,

The unit was totally dead. Everything looked fine, no loose cards and the box the unit was packed in was in perfect shape. Integra just shipped me a dead unit. I already took it back to the dealer and he ordered a 4th one. He also got a free HDMI module for me.

R

Good luck with # 4 !

John

Originally posted by Expletive
Good luck with # 4 !

John

There is a very high probability that number 4 will also be defective!

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
There is a very high probability that number 4 will also be defective!

R

Hang in there. It sounds like you are just about ready to give up on it, and I wouldn't blame you. Did you happen to check the build date?

Expletive,

Earlier in the thread, Krobar posted that he used a Pioneer receiver formerly and this is his first pre/pro.

Brian

Raz - They say that the fourth time's the charm. Wait a minute, that's the third time. Good grief, if you miss on three, what's next? I hoped it doesn't flip to the sixth time. WTF do "they" know anyway?!

In any case, you seem to be a model of serenity.

Originally posted by Krobar
Well, Im beginning to make more progress with the sound on my RDC-7.1. My system had a severe ground loop which it seems the change to balanced interconnects helped to hide but it still seems to have a negative effect on the sound. After disconnecting a few of the offending components im now getting a more balanced sound, about -3 on treble and all else flat makes it right to my ears. Im alot happier but I think Im going to have to sort the rooms wiring before going any further and maybe use some duller speaker wire (QES Silver is bright IMHO). I guess I should feel privellaged to have unit that works properly.



Glad to hear you're making progress. BTW, balanced lines to your amp would not be part of the ground loop, and I can't imagine how they would hide one either. Suspect your upstream gear - a loop between a source and RDC-7.1 perhaps.

I just received an RDC 7.1 and am having problems with the HDMI module. I previously had my DVD player and HDTV Tivo going through a Gefen HDMI switcher to my projector (the projector has a DVI input so I use an HDMI to DVI converter at the projector end). During that time I never had a problem. When I purchased the RDC 7.1, I sold the Gefen and began using the 7.1 to switch my 2 HDMI sources. Since then I get white "sparkles" whenever using the HDMI inputs. They are rather prominent at first - but lessen over time. After about 30 minutes to an hour, they are all but gone (I don't quite understand why).

I tried watching the Tivo through component - no "sparkles" and also connected the HDMI cable (40 feet) directly from my Tivo to the projector again no "sparkles". I thought that the culprit may be the HDMI cable from the Tivo to the 7.1 since that was also new - so I replaced it with the HDMI cable that came with my Tivo and the "sparkles" were still present.

Does anyone else have the HDMI module and if so are you experiencing any problems?

Originally posted by bkzoller
Hang in there. It sounds like you are just about ready to give up on it, and I wouldn't blame you. Did you happen to check the build date?


Brian,

The dealer got both our units at the same time, I hope that yours is fine. Mine was manufactured in December 2004. My first RDC-7.1, the one that had the defective OSD, was also manufactured in December 2004 and the serial numbers on the two units were only 5 numbers apart.

R

Originally posted by pepar
Raz - They say that the fourth time's the charm. Wait a minute, that's the third time. Good grief, if you miss on three, what's next? I hoped it doesn't flip to the sixth time. WTF do "they" know anyway?!

In any case, you seem to be a model of serenity.

It's funny that before shipping my unit Integra assured my dealer that they thoroughly tested the unit and it was 100% OK. This perfect unit turned to be DOA. Their quality control is totally screwed up.

R

Originally posted by akopperl
I just received an RDC 7.1 and am having problems with the HDMI module.


Wow, I'm happy that I'm not the only one who has RDC-7.1 problems! WTF is Integra doing? - the RDC-7.1 is a QC disaster.

R

In case anyone's interested, here is some info on my defective units:

1st unit
problem: defective OSD
serial number: 14Z0910067B
manufactured: December 2004

2nd unit
problem: audio dropouts
serial number: 14Y0910004
manufactured: November 2004

3rd unit
problem: DOA
serial number: 14Z0910072B
manufactured: December 2004

R

Some info on the HDMI module: the module is user installable, comes with a wrench and 4 screws, and according to the instructions the HDMI board "must be used with the c-video board".

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
Wow, I'm happy that I'm not the only one who has RDC-7.1 problems! WTF is Integra doing? - the RDC-7.1 is a QC disaster.

R

It seems that I read a similar comment earlier. Oh yes, I did read that in post #453. ;) IR apparently does need to work on their testing procedures. There was apparently a bad batch of base units in December that slipped through the cracks.

Originally posted by MStanic
Again, this is why units should not be made with cards slapped into them. I cannot believe that any form of decent QA testing can be done on units that are plug and play by users. IR has these units waiting to be sold to customers based on the modules they select. Then, these modules are slapped in and shipped to the user. How can you do any serious testing on a platform like this?

Raz, I don't understand how you're willing to put up with IR. Three units, three, 3, trois and you shot Anthem down for what exactly? Good Luck but three strikes and IR is out Raz. Go back to the D1........I'm convinced......after the upgrade.....it will be a superior unit. It's all in the planning.......Anthem is not premature. IR is premature now with HDMI?

Originally posted by bkzoller
There was apparently a bad batch of base units in December that slipped through the cracks.

Not to mention that my December unit's sound - bright - was totally different from my November unit's sound - warm.

R

And I remember a guy that was bashing Anthem very aggressively for a "buggy" beta-software... :rolleyes:

Strangely, there is no anger at all from the same guy againts IR for the 3 (maybe 4) buggy units... :confused: And this is not a beta-software this time (or maybe it is?)...

So Raz. Are you buying your D1 back soon? :D

Originally posted by LEVESQUE
And I remember a guy that was bashing Anthem very aggressively for a "buggy" beta-software... :rolleyes:

Strangely, there is no anger at all from the same guy againts IR for the 3 (maybe 4) buggy units... :confused: And this is not a beta-software this time (or maybe it is?)...

So Raz. Are you buying your D1 back soon? :D

Lev,

I'm not as angry now because I got used to my units being defective. In fact, I'm amused. The whole IR situation is so surreal that it is comic.

R

Raz,

If you get another duff I'd demand an RDA-7.1 with the replacement, Integra should be too embarassed to say no!

Originally posted by Krobar
Raz,

If you get another duff I'd demand an RDA-7.1 with the replacement, Integra should be too embarassed to say no!

That's an excellent idea!!!

R

They should give you the full complement of modules as well, if you have any further problems.

Brian

Originally posted by bkzoller
They should give you the full complement of modules as well, if you have any further problems.

Brian

I think that a fully loaded RDC-7.1 will have a zillion problems. Actually, it will probably explode the moment I take it out of the box!

R

Do you happen to know how long the unit's warranty is in the US?

Brian

Originally posted by bkzoller
Do you happen to know how long the unit's warranty is in the US?

Brian

3 years.

R

i sur am happy wit my new rdc-7.

I agree that there are few compelling reasons from a feature standpoint to upgrade from the RDC-7 to RDC-7.1 at this time. Maybe you would upgrade if you needed iLink audio right away and didn't want to wait for them to add it to the older model. Or maybe you would want DPLIIx or 2x1 HDMI switching. The list is pretty short. In my case this will replace a B&K Ref20, which lacks features in several areas in comparison to the IR.

Brian

My dealer worked miracles and I now have my 4th unit!

Master version: 1.06
iLink: 1.01
HDMI: 1.00

Sound: warm, just like the one before it

I still have audio dropouts when I go to channels 18-1 and 18-2 but the dropouts are shorter and harder to notice. I think that my second unit - the one with the audio dropouts - wasn't defective and the RDC-7.1 has some compatibility problems with some OTA channels that IR tried to fix with the new firmware.

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
My dealer worked miracles and I now have my 4th unit!

Master version: 1.06
iLink: 1.01
HDMI: 1.00

Sound: warm, just like the one before it

I still have audio dropouts when I go to channels 18-1 and 18-2 but the dropouts are shorter and harder to notice. I think that my second unit - the one with the audio dropouts - wasn't defective and the RDC-7.1 has some compatibility problems with some OTA channels that IR tried to fix with the new firmware.

R

Congratulations!

I heard that the IR rep personally delivered the two 1.06 firmware units to the dealer and that you tested both units with them. The second one is supposed to be shipped to me. If that's what happened, thank you very much for your assistance. :)

Let's recap your observations on the firmware versions:

1.03 -- warm sound, OTA dropouts
1.04 -- bright sound, no OTA dropouts (or not noticed)
1.06 -- warm sound, slight OTA dropouts

Do I have this correct?

Brian

Originally posted by bkzoller
I heard that the IR rep personally delivered the two 1.06 firmware units to the dealer and that you tested both units with them. The second one is supposed to be shipped to me. If that's what happened, thank you very much for your assistance. :)


Brian,

That's correct, we did check both units to make sure that they work and that they have the latest firmware version. Jason, Steven, and the IR rep were all extremely nice and professional, I couldn't have chosen a better dealer.

R

Originally posted by bkzoller
Let's recap your observations on the firmware versions:

1.03 -- warm sound, OTA dropouts
1.04 -- bright sound, no OTA dropouts (or not noticed)
1.06 -- warm sound, slight OTA dropouts

Do I have this correct?

Brian

Yes. Now I only have dropouts on channels 18-1 and 18-2, they are very slight and only happen when I change channels. 1.06 is much better than 1.03.

I'm not sure that the sound has anything to do with the firmware versions. The IR rep thought that the bright sounding unit hadn't been broken in.

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
I'm not sure that the sound has anything to do with the firmware versions. The IR rep thought that the bright sounding unit hadn't been broken in.

R

I still find it interesting that the 1.06 version sounded warm basically fresh out of the box. Maybe they broke in that one over several hours before bringing it to the dealer and they didn't do that on the 1.04 version. Did both of the new units sound the same during testing at the dealer?

Brian

Originally posted by bkzoller
I still find it interesting that the 1.06 version sounded warm basically fresh out of the box. Maybe they broke in that one over several hours before bringing it to the dealer and they didn't do that on the 1.04 version. Did both of the new units sound the same during testing at the dealer?

Brian

Brian,

The rep told me that IR now breaks in all units before bringing them to dealers. He also asked me what would I like IR to do in the future and I told him that my number 1 wish was for IR to have all firmware revisions available for download on their site. I'm pretty sure that my second unit wasn't defective, a firmware download would have taken care of the dropouts.

We didn't check the sound on the units, we just made sure that the units were not DOA, that the motorized doors worked, and that they both had firmware 1.06.

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
Brian,

The rep told me that IR now breaks in all units before bringing them to dealers. He also asked me what would I like IR to do in the future and I told him that my number 1 wish was for IR to have all firmware revisions available for download on their site.

R

Good stuff here. I can hardly wait until next week when I receive mine. :)

IR seems to be working on making improvements in their procedures. User installable firmware would be at the top of my list, also. It would have saved lots of hassles for you. In addition, I'm sure IR would want to avoid dealing with having units shipped to them just so they could perform the firmware installation in the future. It makes sense for both parties.

Brian

I suggested the same to Onkyo support a few weeks back, hopefully if enough pressure builds we will see firmware updates on their site.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bkzoller
Good stuff here. I can hardly wait until next week when I receive mine. :)

IR seems to be working on making improvements in their procedures. User installable firmware would be at the top of my list, also. It would have saved lots of hassles for you. In addition, I'm sure IR would want to avoid dealing with having units shipped to them just so they could perform the firmware installation in the future. It makes sense for both parties.

Brian [/QUOTE

No doubt many will be happy with this sort of DIY upgrading - I certainly would, but how precognitive would IR have to have been to see this coming? I mean, DUH! Most individual buyers, especially in the initial period, are net-savvy and probably computer-savvy as well. For them, firmware upgrades are No Big Deal. And look at the IR resources saved by having them be user-downloadable and installable. Damn straight it makes sense; and it should have made sense to them long before release, too.

I am on the fence between an RDC 7.1 and a statement D1.

Do any of you know what DSP processor(s) is in the RDC 7.1?

Razvanel, I have followed the issues you've had and am glad that they appear resolved. I cannot keep track of all the units you've had but does the new working unit sound the same as the previous 'best sounding' unit?

I do not have a dealer within 4 hours of me and am a bit leary of the QC issues some of you have been having.

All the dealers within 4 hours listed on the IR website are no longer carrying the IR brand. Does anyone have an on-line source? My choice may simply default to the fact that I cannot find someone to sell me the unit. As I see it the D1 costs more now and will be an extra 1k to upgrade in a few years when the new formats are released.

ArtV

Originally posted by ArtV
I am on the fence between an RDC 7.1 and a statement D1.

ArtV

Many describe the sound of the D1 as neutral; a few, like Raz, find it bright. We have descriptions of a couple of 7.1 to be "warm" (not a sound quality I would want, but everyone has their preferences), two that have been called "bright" (one overly so--Krobar's), and one called "neutral". Hard to determine, but that dimension, and your preference about it, would be important to consider...

Art,

The RDC-7.1 is using a pair of TI Aureus DSPs (Three of the same are used in the big new Denon and one in the digital HK recievers).

Mailorder should not be a problem, I think IR realise there are some large geographic gaps in their dealer network (I imported mine from California to the UK).

I know that the best way to judge is with your ears but no dealer is stocking the unit. Also, no one will let me try it and return it if I did not like it. Very strange that some of the units sound so different.

ArtV

Originally posted by ArtV
I know that the best way to judge is with your ears but no dealer is stocking the unit. Also, no one will let me try it and return it if I did not like it. Very strange that some of the units sound so different.

ArtV

Yes, it is a real handicap not being able to hear for yourself. I would like to A/B the D1 versus the 7.1 in our setup, but the problems reported with the 7.1 have me scared off, at least for the time being.

If you have not done so already, the manuals for both the 7.1 and D1 can be downloaded from the websites. It is important to read the details; if your setup is complicated in any respect, there are lots of pros and cons to each unit, and one may stack up looking better than the other for your unique uses. If you are not doing anything too complicated, then either may work well. It certainly has helped that D1 has easy to access, in the know customer support.

One thing thats not shown in the manual is that the IR has very solid and comprehensive RS232 control, this may or may not be important to you.

Pros I know of for each unit:

D1:
Better Support (Mainly web and firmware availability)
Less DOA type probs
Has 1 balanced Analogue in

RDC-7.1
Modular Upgradeability and options like BNC component and upcoming digital radio
TI DSPs should mean quicker DSP software upgrades in future
I-Link

There are alot more pros and cons that im sure Raz and others can chip in with. Im not sure about zone2 support but the IR seems surprisingly flexible to me in this respect.

Originally posted by ArtV
I am on the fence between an RDC 7.1 and a statement D1.

Do any of you know what DSP processor(s) is in the RDC 7.1?

Razvanel, I have followed the issues you've had and am glad that they appear resolved. I cannot keep track of all the units you've had but does the new working unit sound the same as the previous 'best sounding' unit?

I do not have a dealer within 4 hours of me and am a bit leary of the QC issues some of you have been having.

All the dealers within 4 hours listed on the IR website are no longer carrying the IR brand. Does anyone have an on-line source? My choice may simply default to the fact that I cannot find someone to sell me the unit. As I see it the D1 costs more now and will be an extra 1k to upgrade in a few years when the new formats are released.

ArtV

Art, check your PM. About the sound: yes, this unit sounds as good as the previous 'best sounding' unit. Its sound is warm, rich, and never fatiguing.

R

Originally posted by DoctorO
Many describe the sound of the D1 as neutral; a few, like Raz, find it bright. We have descriptions of a couple of 7.1 to be "warm" (not a sound quality I would want, but everyone has their preferences), two that have been called "bright" (one overly so--Krobar's), and one called "neutral". Hard to determine, but that dimension, and your preference about it, would be important to consider...

I think that the D1 is far from being neutral, I had two in my system and they were both quite forward sounding. If you do like that sound then the D1 is spectacular. To me the D1 sound had too much detail and after a while it became fatiguing.

The RDC-7.1 has a warm and very rich and full sound, never fatiguing. I talked to my dealer yesterday and he told me that he also thought that the 7.1 is warm sounding.

R

A couple of other differences worth mentioning. Anthem only gave the D1 a single six channel analog input. You can get a block of two 8 channel analog inputs with the 7.1. The 7.1 has more triggers and a second set of RCA outs that can be configured in a wide variety of ways; it is much more flexible than just a "zone 2". On the other hand, the D1 has an excellent feature of separate configurations for Cinema and Music that in particular make it easy to set up your sub differently for music and movies, which can be quite helpful. I personally like the results of the special center channel EQ option in the D1, but some do not. The notch filter on the D1 works well to reduce low frequency booming. The D1 runs warm--many have had to use a rack fan. The 7.1 has a built-in-fan, I think.

Doesn't the D1 also upsample all digital audio streams to 24 / 192 while the RDC-7.1 does not (in fact I don't believe the RDC-7.1 upsamples at all???).

Originally posted by ssblount
Doesn't the D1 also upsample all digital audio streams to 24 / 192 while the RDC-7.1 does not (in fact I don't believe the RDC-7.1 upsamples at all???).

According to the RDC-7.1 manual - page 6 - the IR piece has digital upsampling. No details are given.

R

Originally posted by DoctorO
the D1 has an excellent feature of separate configurations for Cinema and Music that in particular make it easy to set up your sub differently for music and movies, which can be quite helpful. I personally like the results of the special center channel EQ option in the D1, but some do not. The notch filter on the D1 works well to reduce low frequency booming. The D1 runs warm--many have had to use a rack fan. The 7.1 has a built-in-fan, I think.

The separate configurations for Cinema and Music is an excellent feature indeed. I tried the center EQ but didn't like it much. The RDC-7.1 also has a notch filter. The RDC-7.1 also runs warm, I used rack fans for both the D1 and the RDC-7.1. There's no mention of a built-in-fan in the RDC-7.1 manual.

R

There's no mention of a built-in-fan in the RDC-7.1 manual.

Whew! :) That would have been a deal-breaker for me.

Originally posted by Razvanel
I think that the D1 is far from being neutral, I had two in my system and they were both quite forward sounding. If you do like that sound then the D1 is spectacular. To me the D1 sound had too much detail and after a while it became fatiguing.

The RDC-7.1 has a warm and very rich and full sound, never fatiguing. I talked to my dealer yesterday and he told me that he also thought that the 7.1 is warm sounding.

R

Are you saying in this statement that the 7.1 provides less detail than the D1?

Personally i feel if its on the disc i want to hear it, and if more detail sounded fatiguing i would look to change my speakers.

I'm sure youve said this in the past Raz but what speakers and amp are you using?

Based on your description, the 7.1 sounds a lot like the Arcam AV8 which i owned prior to the D1. The AV8 was definitely warmer sounding but it did lack the resolution and detail of the D1. I did not do an extensive AB but this was my recollection ( i believe i did a fairly lengthy post on the two awhile back).

What was missing form the AV8, i learned later, was that air in the top end. To me thats part of the 'extra 5%' we're all striving for on the audio side.


John

Originally posted by Expletive
Are you saying in this statement that the 7.1 provides less detail than the D1?

Personally i feel if its on the disc i want to hear it, and if more detail sounded fatiguing i would look to change my speakers.

I'm sure youve said this in the past Raz but what speakers and amp are you using?

Based on your description, the 7.1 sounds a lot like the Arcam AV8 which i owned prior to the D1. The AV8 was definitely warmer sounding but it did lack the resolution and detail of the D1. I did not do an extensive AB but this was my recollection ( i believe i did a fairly lengthy post on the two awhile back).

What was missing form the AV8, i learned later, was that air in the top end. To me thats part of the 'extra 5%' we're all striving for on the audio side.


John

Yes, I do think that the D1 is more detailed and has more air in the top end. I could have lived with the D1 but its sound drove my wife crazy.

I have B&W speakers and Parasound amps.

I took the D1 to a friend of mine who used to work for Mondial, he has some very nice professional speakers used in studios, and the D1 was still too forward and analytical for me. My friend liked the D1 a lot though.

He's heard all my stuff and if you are curious here is how he ranked the D1, the RDC-7.1, and the old RDC-7 for overall sound:

1. D1
2. RDC-7.1
3. RDC-7

Here is my top 3:

1. RDC-7.1
2. D1
3. RDC-7

Here is my wife's top 3:

1. RDC-7.1
2. RDC-7
3. D1

I think that Arcam and the RDC-7.1 both use Wolfson DAC's so maybe that would explain the similar sound?

R

Originally posted by Razvanel


I think that Arcam and the RDC-7.1 both use Wolfson DAC's so maybe that would explain the similar sound?

R

Its certainly possible that they contribute to the sound but id be surprised if the DAC alone could account for the differences you are hearing.

Is your room acoustically treated at all? I just treated mine and the upper end really smoothed out. Now ive got all the air and detail but without the added harshness of first reflections from the wall and ceiling. I Could see where upper frquecies of something like a D1 bouncing around and hitting the ear at slightly different times could get fatigueing. I didnt find it objectionable before but now i really am enjoying the sound.

I know youve crossed that bridge already between the D1 and 7.1 and the WAF my prohibit any extensive treatment but just something i thought i would bring up. (FYI, ive got B&Ws as well)

John

Originally posted by Expletive

Is your room acoustically treated at all?


No it's not.

R

Originally posted by akopperl
I just received an RDC 7.1 and am having problems with the HDMI module. During that time I never had a problem. When I purchased the RDC 7.1, I sold the Gefen and began using the 7.1 to switch my 2 HDMI sources. Since then I get white "sparkles" whenever using the HDMI inputs.
Does anyone else have the HDMI module and if so are you experiencing any problems?

I tested my HDMI module using a Panasonic S97 upconverting DVD player and didn't notice any white sparkles.

R

Originally posted by Expletive
Is your room acoustically treated at all? I just treated mine and the upper end really smoothed out. Now ive got all the air and detail but without the added harshness of first reflections from the wall and ceiling.

I totally agree with you John. My room is acoustically treated at all first reflections and also with bass-traps, and my D1 is far from beeing fatiguing at all, and the sound is really smooth. All those details w/o any fatigue.

Sadly, people with non-treated rooms are hearing the room alot more then the small and minor differences in sound between 2 high-end pre/pros.

I find it really amusing when I see a picture of a monster Krell amp in a non-treated room... A "budget" amp (costing 5-6X less) would sound alot better in a properly treated room then the Krell in the non-treated room...

Raz. By choosing a "warmer" pre/pro, you are just compensating for your non-optimized room, and sacrificing all the details you could hear with a neutral pre/pro in a properly treated room.

Originally posted by DoctorO
A couple of other differences worth mentioning. Anthem only gave the D1 a single six channel analog input. You can get a block of two 8 channel analog inputs with the 7.1. The 7.1 has more triggers and a second set of RCA outs that can be configured in a wide variety of ways; it is much more flexible than just a "zone 2". On the other hand, the D1 has an excellent feature of separate configurations for Cinema and Music that in particular make it easy to set up your sub differently for music and movies, which can be quite helpful. I personally like the results of the special center channel EQ option in the D1, but some do not. The notch filter on the D1 works well to reduce low frequency booming. The D1 runs warm--many have had to use a rack fan. The 7.1 has a built-in-fan, I think.

I'm stealing someone else's point from another thread, but one benefit of Anthem playing 'wait and see' with HDMI is that the spec/solution they go with will almost certainly support the future hi res audio of HDDVD via this digital connection (HDMI). I agree Anthems 6ch analog in was short sighted, but once HDMI and iLink are in the D1, i doubt it will matter at all down the road.

John

I find it really amusing when I see a picture of a monster Krell amp in a non-treated room...

Or those articles about expensive setups in <pick any HT mag> where they have $5000 or more front speakers backed up right against the wall. Yeah, OK ... ;)

DoctorO,
A person was going to come over this AM and bring his Anthem D1 to listen to an amp. We had a snow storm so we rescheduled. I will do an A-B for you and report back. I am going to set the speakers to "large" and stereo using the DAC's of the processor. I will let you know what I hear since I will have them side-by-side.
We will get together fairly soon.

Originally posted by SteveH
DoctorO,
A person was going to come over this AM and bring his Anthem D1 to listen to an amp. We had a snow storm so we rescheduled. I will do an A-B for you and report back. I am going to set the speakers to "large" and stereo using the DAC's of the processor. I will let you know what I hear since I will have them side-by-side.
We will get together fairly soon.

That should be interesting for quite a few of us--thanks!!

Originally posted by SteveH
DoctorO,
A person was going to come over this AM and bring his Anthem D1 to listen to an amp. We had a snow storm so we rescheduled. I will do an A-B for you and report back. I am going to set the speakers to "large" and stereo using the DAC's of the processor. I will let you know what I hear since I will have them side-by-side.
We will get together fairly soon.

If you could also let us know which amps the D1 gets paired with and how they synergy is with them i'd very interested. As you know, i've come full circle on my system and am ready to look at amps again. :) Looking forward to it steve.

John

There is a fellow starting a thread in the DVD players section who cannot get his 7.1 to play via Firewire properly, with the Denon 3910 as the input. Another strike! Someone tell him the bad news...Raz?

Originally posted by DoctorO
There is a fellow starting a thread in the DVD players section who cannot get his 7.1 to play via Firewire properly, with the Denon 3910 as the input. Another strike! Someone tell him the bad news...Raz?

That's the same guy who's had problems with the HDMI module... Unfortunately I don't have a DVD player with firewire so I cannot test the iLink module on my unit. HDMI and everything else seem to be OK. For now.

R

I-Link works fine with my Pioneer player although it seems Denon are most problematic in general when it come to I-link.

I need to download the firmware for the 3910 as I had the origional firmware (very 1st shipment). I will do this for sure or it won't work. IR tech support tells me that there is no issue and several have gotten them running. I also have a customer who has a newer model 3910 that IS working with the IR 7.1 (so again I have verified it to work). 10:1 odds that the problem is either the firmware on the Denon or they need to do hit the audioSEL button (last row on remote) to select ILINK on the vacuum florescent display. If you remember, I struggled getting the IR 1.1 DVD player to work till I called tech support as this was not in the manual.

Expletive, he is bring over his Anthem (A5??) amp. His issue is that the Anthem amp is lacking something on the top end along with popping open his speakers at low levels. We are going to do a blind test with the Gemstone and a few other amps. I have never heard the Anthem amp in my personal system so I am anxious to add another to my "mental database".

I absolutely respect the Anthem D1. Without question I'd carry Anthem if I could. My problem is that Anthem is well represented by Stereoland here in MN and I am unable to carry the line.:( It is a great opportunity to take a side-by-side listen and I will post my honest opinions. I know I will like them both. Each will have its "flavor". Some may prefer one "flavor" over the other. My ear errors toward a more dynamic sound and I do not prefer a "warm" sound.

I just talked with my customer and we have it slated for Friday at 11AM. Should be fun...:D

Sounds good Steve, really looking forward to it. My guess based on just some anecdotal evidence is that the A5 will be right around a sherbourn 7/2100 (Its not a monoblock config tho).

(Their flagship is actually the P5 which does 325(8ohm)/500(4ohm), is a mono block config and weighs a staggering 130lb for the 5 channel version (75lbs for 2 channels), clearly a monster.)

Id love to hear the gemstone has a magical synergy with the D1 but looking forward to your comments either way. :)

John

The Gemstone has wonderful synergy with my D1 along with my Tyler Acoustic speakers.
NETHOMAS

Originally posted by nethomas
The Gemstone has wonderful synergy with my D1 along with my Tyler Acoustic speakers.
NETHOMAS

Excellent, how would you classify the sound of the TA speakers?

John

They are excellent. PM me and we can talk more. I'm afraid we'll get flammed if we start a new topic here.
NETHOMAS

Originally posted by SteveH
they need to do hit the audioSEL button (last row on remote) to select ILINK on the vacuum florescent display. If you remember, I struggled getting the IR 1.1 DVD player to work till I called tech support as this was not in the manual.

Actually that info is in the manual - page 57.

R

There might be at least a change for the better coming with regards to firmware. Integra are supposed to be providing update firmware to dealers soon. Like the config program and firewire for the RDC-7 I'll believe it when and if I see it. :)

Originally posted by Krobar
There might be at least a change for the better coming with regards to firmware. Integra are supposed to be providing update firmware to dealers soon. Like the config program and firewire for the RDC-7 I'll believe it when and if I see it. :)

So I'd have to go to the dealer to have the firmware updated??? They should have all firmware revisions on their website.

Speaking of firmware, the 1.06 firmware is much better than 1.03, the audio dropouts are almost gone and the unit locks in digital signals much faster. The sound seems to be smoother too.

R

Krobar, it's a step in the right direction, but how would that benefit you? Your closest dealer is on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean. It will be interesting to see what software they provide for installing the firmware. The easiest thing would be to incorporate that feature into the configuration software that you mentioned. I wonder if IR needs beta testers for that software.

Brian

Brian,

True but theres nothing to stop the dealer either emailing me what is needed or sending me a CD with it on. Integration into the configuration utility would be very nice indeed but a simple command line operated executable would do.

Raz,

Your making me and my 1.03 unit angry!!

Are you having problems with audio dropouts or with sound quality at this point?

No audio dropouts but the sound is too bright and faster lockon would be nice for my Satellite source.

I also have a DTS "Unlock" issue that occurs with some brands. You can replicate it by burning a cd with first track PCM, second track DTS and final track PCM. The first PCM track will play, the Integra will then lock on and play the DTS track but will remain in DTS mode for the final track resulting in silence. Changing the input to another and then back to the CD source will bring back the sound for track 3. Im not sure if the above CD is "In Spec" but Marantz recievers seem to be able to deal with it (My old Pioneer acted like the Integra). Ive no idea if the 1.06 update will fix this or indeed if Integra will ever fix it.

You guys are making me happier with my D1 with each thread.
NETHOMAS

Originally posted by Krobar
Brian,

True but theres nothing to stop the dealer either emailing me what is needed or sending me a CD with it on. Integration into the configuration utility would be very nice indeed but a simple command line operated executable would do.


And he could show you the secret handshake, too. You knew there was one, didn't you?

Amen NETHOMAS.

This RDC 7.1 seems like one big QA/QC nightmare. It's weird that you need to concern yourself about loose cards when the unit arrives. I'm surprised Integra would fail, it really is a failure from the gates, in the QA/QC aspect of such an important product during it's much anticipated inception.

Originally posted by nethomas
You guys are making me happier with my D1 with each thread.
NETHOMAS

I'm happier with my RDC-7.1 than I ever was with my D1. Here is list of problems I had with the Anthem D1:

1. The D1 would sometimes shut down when the source was a Panasonic DVD player.

2. Cracking sounds from the 4 surround speakers with DTS Neo 6.

3. Noise from the left surround speaker when playing DVD's.

4. Loss of sound on the left surround speaker on the 5.1 analog input.

5. White dots on the display when the D1 was turned off.

6. The right column of the display would sometimes disappear.

7. Loss of sound when playing a certain CD.

8. Difference in sound level between the analog and digital inputs.

9. FU message on the display when tried the DPLIIx beta software.

10. Not a D1 problem but let's not forget that Anthem started shipping the AVM 30 with the AVM 20 software installed.

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
I'm happier with my RDC-7.1 than I ever was with my D1. Here is list of problems I had with the Anthem D1:

1. The D1 would sometimes shut down when the source was a Panasonic DVD player.
2. Cracking sounds from the 4 surround speakers with DTS Neo 6.
3. Noise from the left surround speaker when playing DVD's.
4. Loss of sound on the left surround speaker on the 5.1 analog input.
5. White dots on the display when the D1 was turned off.
6. The right column of the display would sometimes disappear.
7. Loss of sound when playing a certain CD.
8. Difference in sound level between the analog and digital inputs.
9. FU message on the display when tried the DPLIIx beta software.
10. Not a D1 problem but let's not forget that Anthem started shipping the AVM 30 with the AVM 20 software installed.

R

Raz.

Items 1 to 7, 9 and 10 were fixed 2 or 3 weeks after coming out on the market, with a simple firmware upgrade.

And, you don't need to send a D1 to your dealer to perform a simple firmware upgrade. You just have to download it, and it takes 5 minutes to install it... ;)

Strange how you were so aggressive about minor problems like those on your list with the D1, and always so cheerful with 3 defectives IR 7.1 (and the 4th one is still buggy...).

And if I remember well, you were really angry about a beta-software Anthem graciously made you try, but you still prefer doing beta-testing for free for IR with your 4 PRODUCTION units (not beta-software...).

IR are still in beta-testing, don't they? :D

Where is the IR 7.1 manufactured?



John

Raz,

You like what you like and we have to respect that. Seriously though, at this point, you would never admit that the D1 is a better unit. I'm not saying that you think it is but human nature is letting PRIDE get in the way. You're too far gone with the IR 7.1 now to possibly admit that you made a mistake in going with the IR 7.1. You are tolerating the most SEVERE of issues that one could possibly ever face with a consumer product......units that simply do not work or DOA for that matter. In all likelihood Raz, the D1, perhaps for you, was/is simply a better unit from a build and QA/QC perspective.

It's coming full steam ahead and ready to destroy anything that gets in the way........the upgraded D1 folks. Coming soon to a dealer near you.

The IR 7.1 is manufactured in SANTA's workshop by elves still trying to decipher the inventory of all the cards scattered all over the floor. Sometimes, they forget to include a card, they don't insert the card all the way in or a defective card is inserted because it's picked up from the floor.

Sorry, I coud not help myself. It's all in good humour folks. Seriously though, the IR 7.1 is a nice piece and I hope it gets better as time goes on.

Originally posted by Razvanel
9. FU message on the display when tried the DPLIIx beta software.

Was it a polite FU message?

I see on Audioholics that Gene LaSalle (sp)? told someone looking at the D1, to "wait until I print my review of the IR in two weeks". Sounds like a really unbiased review. By the way he goes on to mention that the IR is now part of his "reference system". I wonder what he paid for it, and I wonder if it worked out of the box?
NETHOMAS

Originally posted by MStanic
Raz,

You like what you like and we have to respect that. Seriously though, at this point, you would never admit that the D1 is a better unit. I'm not saying that you think it is but human nature is letting PRIDE get in the way. You're too far gone with the IR 7.1 now to possibly admit that you made a mistake in going with the IR 7.1. You are tolerating the most SEVERE of issues that one could possibly ever face with a consumer product......units that simply do not work or DOA for that matter. In all likelihood Raz, the D1, perhaps for you, was/is simply a better unit from a build and QA/QC perspective.


1. Right now the RDC-7.1 is superior by far, both sound wise and feature wise.

2. I had far more problems with the D1 than I had with the RDC-7.1. It's probably true that D1 is quite stable now but it took Anthem months to fix the bugs.

R

Originally posted by pepar
Was it a polite FU message?

The message was intended for Raz....because of all his complaining. Is there any wonder why he doesn't like the Anthem or the D1? :D

Originally posted by Colin Banfield
The message was intended for Raz....because of all his complaining. Is there any wonder why he doesn't like the Anthem or the D1? :D

The FU message + the countless bugs + the promise to have DPLIIx in 6-8 weeks when in fact it took Anthem 8 months to deliver, the overpriced unit, it was too much. Anthem? Never again.

R

Raz wrote

"Anthem? Never again"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That remark sounds familiar, except that it was directed at another brand.
I believe it went like this :
" I will never buy another IR product again"

Congrats Raz, on your IR pre/pro. Although i am shocked that you have decided to keep unit #4 even though you reported bugs.But you have also reported that it is improving as you play it.

Cheers
Jossix

Originally posted by jossix
Raz wrote

"Anthem? Never again"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That remark sounds familiar, except that it was directed at another brand.
I believe it went like this :
" I will never buy another IR product again"


The RDC-7.1 was just too good to pass. I had to choose between an overpriced unit - the D1 - that sounded no better than the AVM 30 and the RDC-7.1 which wiped the floor with the D1 both sound wise and feature wise. It was an easy decision. Not to mention that IR never sent me any FU messages like Anthem did.

R

Razvanel, didn't the quote mentioned above refer to IR's lack of an upgrade or trade-in policy for the RDC-7, which is also the subject of this thread? :)

Brian

Originally posted by bkzoller
Razvanel, didn't the quote mentioned above refer to IR's lack of an upgrade or trade-in policy for the RDC-7, which is also the subject of this thread? :)

Brian

Yes, it did! Again, the RDC-7.1 was just too good to pass.

R

Originally posted by MStanic
but human nature is letting PRIDE get in the way. You're too far gone with the IR 7.1 now to possibly admit that you made a mistake in going with the IR 7.1. You are tolerating the most SEVERE of issues that one could possibly ever face with a consumer product......units that simply do not work or DOA for that matter.

MStanic

You took the words off my mouth... :D

BTW Raz. When you say "the RDC-7.1 which wiped the floor with the D1 both sound wise and feature wise." Is it the 1st, the 2nd, the 3rd or the 4th unit? It's getting confusing. Number 1 was bright, number 2 was warm, number 3 was DOA... So number 4 is what: warm or bright? :D

So if I order an IR 7.1, what should I expect to receive? A bright or a warm unit? I know it's not that simple, because the firmware seems to ALSO affect the sound...

.Raz, I have enjoyed the discussion regarding your new found love of the IR as compared to your disgust with the D1, but drop the " FU " crap. First of all it was sent out to all of us who was beta testing, not just you. Second, IT WAS A BETA TEST for Gods sake, nobody forced you to even download it. So enjoy the IR unit, I'm sure sooner or later you will get one that "works".
NETHOMAS

Originally posted by LEVESQUE

BTW Raz. When you say "the RDC-7.1 which wiped the floor with the D1 both sound wise and feature wise." Is it the 1st, the 2nd, the 3rd or the 4th unit? It's getting confusing. Number 1 was bright, number 2 was warm, number 3 was DOA... So number 4 is what: warm or bright? :D


Except for unit number 3 all sounded better than the D1! In fact, even the DOA unit was better: my ears were not bleeding anymore!

R

Originally posted by MStanic
I'm not saying that you think it is but human nature is letting PRIDE get in the way. You're too far gone with the IR 7.1 now to possibly admit that you made a mistake in going with the IR 7.1.

Psychology is tricky, I could say the same about you. The fact is that I'm the only one here who's owned both units and the RDC-7.1 is by far the better unit.

R

Originally posted by nethomas
.Raz, I have enjoyed the discussion regarding your new found love of the IR as compared to your disgust with the D1, but drop the " FU " crap. First of all it was sent out to all of us who was beta testing, not just you.


Wow, Anthem FU all of you? That's impressive.

R

My RDC-7.1 arrived today. The dealer double boxed it for me, and the outer box was huge. It would be nice if IR could change their packaging to a double box with a manageable size. I remember Parasound does this with their amps and I think B&K does also.

I will be hooking it up tonight. Since I haven't had a chance to hear the D1, I won't be able to offer direct comparisons between the two.

Brian

And so it always goes.....

Everyone trying to justify their purchase ruins a good thread.

Just another group of enthusiasts who's opinions can no longer be trusted...so sad.:(

Now where's the door....

Woodrow,

It seems this kind of behaviour is normally provoked. Raz was quite happy to share his experience (Both positive and negative parts) with the Integra and it only turned into this once D1 owners who it seems have no experience of the RDC-7.1 begun criticising.

Originally posted by Krobar
Woodrow,

It seems this kind of behavious is normally provoked. Raz was quite happy to share his experience (Both positive and negative parts) with the Integra and it only turned into this once D1 owners who it seems have no experience of the RDC-7.1 begun criticising.

That's true, these guys just like to provoke me when in fact they have no idea what they are talking about. I've owned both units and the RDC-7.1 is the better unit. Better build quality, better sound, more features.

I did criticize IR in the past and will criticize them again if they screw up again. The truth is that now they've made a killer unit that wipes the floor with the competition.

I'm not praising the RDC-7.1 because I have one. I praise it because it's an outstanding unit. Had I been an IR cheerleader I would have never made public all the problems the unit has had.

R

Krobar, lets understand something here, I have the D1 and I like it. I know nothing about the RDC, but I'll bet it is a very good Pre-Pro. I take issue with anyone who receives FREE beta sofware and then bitches because something on it dosen't work right. Isn't that why it's beta? I'm happy that Raz likes his RDC and I think he deserves to finally get a good one. Don;t point fingers at all of us D1 owners here, we aren't the ones who got bad RDCs and I have not made a single negative remarke about the RDC.
NETHOMAS

Originally posted by nethomas
I take issue with anyone who receives FREE beta sofware and then bitches because something on it dosen't work right.

I don't get this: was I supposed to pay Anthem for the beta software? Not to mention how bad that beta software was, it verged on incompetence.

R

Originally posted by Woodrow
And so it always goes.....

Everyone trying to justify their purchase ruins a good thread.

Just another group of enthusiasts who's opinions can no longer be trusted...so sad.:(

Now where's the door....

Everyone should take a deep breath and go away from this for awhile until Steve does his A/B testing Friday...

See ya later guys!
NETHOMAS

Why stop now? I like it!

Two more problems I experienced with the D1:

11. On my first D1 the 'copy surrounds to rears' function didn't work.

12. There was a very loud noise whenever I turned on the D1. The only fix for that was to turn on the D1 before turning on the amps.

R

My personal request to D1 owners: let it go. You know you have a great product, so why argue with someone who disagrees?

Besides, the main topic of this thread from the OP has long since expired, that being the request for information about a trade-in program for the RDC-7 to the RDC-7.1.

Michael

Originally posted by Michael Mohrmann
My personal request to D1 owners: let it go. You know you have a great product, so why argue with someone who disagrees?


Because they are not sure that they have a great product. And because they suffer from an inferiority complex. Psychology 101.

R

Originally posted by DoctorO
Everyone should take a deep breath and go away from this for awhile until Steve does his A/B testing Friday...

I have been lurking for a while as a interested by stander. As an owner of an RDC-7 who really wants a pre-pro with HDMI and i-link and room EQ the 7.1 may just be the ticket as I get two out of three. I am also a customer of Steve's I will just say this.

Steve has one of the best ears out there when it comes to telling it like it is with amps, speakers and pre-pros. He will give everyone the straight skinny. I am spoiled as he is right in my backyard and more importantly, KNOWS MY HOUSE AND MY LISTENING ROOM. As many of you know this many times overlooked. I have a Parasound amp on my RDC-7 now and it sounds wonderful. I have a Sherbourn amp in another system in my home that Steve knew it would not match up well for my listening room and by god he was right on. While some people would say in most environments the Sherbourn is a superior amp, in this case, in my room, it simply sounded terrible in listening environment.

My point, Steve will give as solid of an review and even be able to steer people in the right direction as far as amplification that will be best suited with the 7.1 and what type of listening room will benefit from the 7.1 signature.

Pressure is on Steve, we are waiting.

Originally posted by Minge
I have been lurking for a while as a interested by stander. As an owner of an RDC-7 who really wants a pre-pro with HDMI and i-link and room EQ the 7.1 may just be the ticket as I get two out of three.

The RDC-7.1 sound is very similar to the RDC-7 sound except for the better midrange on the RDC-7.1. The RDC-7 also has the double bass problem, IR took care of that problem on the RDC-7.1.

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
Because they are not sure that they have a great product. And because they suffer from an inferiority complex. Psychology 101.

R
Looks as if I made a mistake jumping on Levesque a couple months back. You are as big a cheerleader for what you own as he is. And yes, I was one of those that PMed Raz awhile back and thanked him for his "down the middle" approach. Sorry I wrote it now.

The pom pom squad is starting to come together nicely,

D1=Levesque
RDC 7.1= Razvanel

Hopefully Steve and others will stay away from this kind of foolishness and pass along useful info.:)

Originally posted by MStanic
Raz,

You like what you like and we have to respect that. Seriously though, at this point, you would never admit that the D1 is a better unit. I'm not saying that you think it is but human nature is letting PRIDE get in the way. You're too far gone with the IR 7.1 now to possibly admit that you made a mistake in going with the IR 7.1. You are tolerating the most SEVERE of issues that one could possibly ever face with a consumer product......units that simply do not work or DOA for that matter. In all likelihood Raz, the D1, perhaps for you, was/is simply a better unit from a build and QA/QC perspective.

It's coming full steam ahead and ready to destroy anything that gets in the way........the upgraded D1 folks. Coming soon to a dealer near you.

I have a feeling that posts such as the above have contributed to the sudden decline in this thread. It seems to me that if you own the D1 and are happy with it there is no reason to jump into this thread and start this fanboy crap. Same goes for the Integra owners, if your happy, then kick ass!.... but stay out of the Anthem thread. Why you guys want to sit around and poke each other in the eye is beyond me.

Does the RDC-7.1 decode HDCD?

Originally posted by gimp
Does the RDC-7.1 decode HDCD?

I previously searched for HDCD in the PDF manual and did not find that term listed. It would seem that the RDC-7.1 does not decode HDCD.

Brian

Originally posted by Razvanel
The RDC-7 also has the double bass problem, IR took care of that problem on the RDC-7.1.

R

Could you elaborate on the double bass problem, as I am not familiar.

Originally posted by Razvanel
1. Right now the RDC-7.1 is superior by far, both sound wise and feature wise.


R

I doubt any of these 5k or so processors are 'superior by far' in terms of sound quality. I thought we agreed to stick to using 'prefer the sound of' going forward? :)


Seriosuly tho i couldnt care less which is better. Ill happily sell whatever and buy whatever if i think thats the right move.

I do agree tho that 3 bad units is as bad as it gets for consumer electronics though Raz, and a lot of those issues you mentioned on the D1 were minor or with beta software you volunteered to install.

THe one issue was a freak thing where the data stream of a particular CD was the same as a code to change inputs on the D1, just more of your really bad luck. :(

I hold no ill will towards Raz or anyone for jumping ship on the D1. 2x1 HDMI, firewire, or you just cant stand anthem, hey go for it. Its your money after all.

John

Originally posted by Woodrow
I have a feeling that posts such as the above have contributed to the sudden decline in this thread. It seems to me that if you own the D1 and are happy with it there is no reason to jump into this thread and start this fanboy crap. Same goes for the Integra owners, if your happy, then kick ass!.... but stay out of the Anthem thread. Why you guys want to sit around and poke each other in the eye is beyond me.

Well said, and for the record, there's been plenty of poking on both sides for awhile now.

When we've upgraded all we can upgrade, and we've spent our last dollar, hung our last acoustical panel, then all thats left is the poking... :)

John

Originally posted by Expletive
When we've upgraded all we can upgrade, and we've spent our last dollar, hung our last acoustical panel, then all thats left is the poking... :)

John
:D:D

Well said yourself.:) Much truth in that statement.

Originally posted by Minge
Could you elaborate on the double bass problem, as I am not familiar.
Here's a thread on HTGuide that discusses this problem:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=7133

Interesting post at the end of the thread by Burke (a long time RDC-7 owner).

Michael

Originally posted by Woodrow
Looks as if I made a mistake jumping on Levesque a couple months back. You are as big a cheerleader for what you own as he is.
Hopefully Steve and others will stay away from this kind of foolishness and pass along useful info.:)

With all due respect, you don't know what you are talking about. I am not a cheerleader for what I own, far from it: I did complain about the RDC-7 sound while I owned that unit and I did complain about the D1 for 6 months. I also mentioned on this forum all the problems I had with my RDC-7.1. I praise the RDC-7.1 because its sound is really amazing, the best I have heard.

Who has provided you with more useful info than me? Aren't you interested in the problems these units have? And how would you react if you were suddenly attacked by several D1 owners because you thought that your unit was better than theirs?

R

Originally posted by Michael Mohrmann
Here's a thread on HTGuide that discusses this problem:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=7133

Interesting post at the end of the thread by Burke (a long time RDC-7 owner).

Michael

Yes, that describes the problem. I tested 4 or 5 different units and they all had it. I hated the RDC-7 midrange, very compressed.

R

I'm reading some disrespectful posts here. It's one thing to engage in witty reparteé, but something else to criticize the holder of a position/opinion because you disagree. Fanboys, please inhale.

Originally posted by Expletive
I do agree tho that 3 bad units is as bad as it gets for consumer electronics though Raz, and a lot of those issues you mentioned on the D1 were minor or with beta software you volunteered to install.
John

John,

The second RDC-7.1 was not defective, the audio dropouts problem was almost solved with firmware 1.06. The problem is still there but now the dropouts are fewer and very slight, most people would never notice them. These dropouts only occur on two obscure OTA channels and only when I change channels.

So, let's recapitulate:

1st unit: defective OSD
2nd unit: audio dropouts, not defective, a firmware issue, almost corrected
3rd unit: DOA

Now, look at the list of problems I had with the D1: there's 11 of them, some minor, some more serious.

About the D1 beta software: I never asked to get it, it was e-mailed to me. Naturally, I was curious and tried it. It sucked big time and screwed up my D1. Anthem has no excuses for e-mailing me that piece of crap software.

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
With all due respect, you don't know what you are talking about. I am not a cheerleader for what I own, far from it: I did complain about the RDC-7 sound while I owned that unit and I did complain about the D1 for 6 months. I also mentioned on this forum all the problems I had with my RDC-7.1. I praise the RDC-7.1 because its sound is really amazing, the best I have heard.

Who has provided you with more useful info than me? Aren't you interested in the problems these units have? And how would you react if you were suddenly attacked by several D1 owners because you thought that your unit was better than theirs?

R
OK. I can admit when I'm wrong.

I do think you were provoked...actually Lev has tried it several times. He seems to enjoy pulling your chain.

And you have provided me with lots of info, and for that I thank you...big time.:)

I know this; most members who happened to experience the problems you've had would simply contact the manufacturer all the while telling people here that their unit was operating perfectly. That kind of honesty is to be commended.

I hereby revoke your cheerleader status.:D

Just don't sink to their level, and this thread, and the Anthem thread for that matter, will continue to spew forth killer info.:)

Originally posted by pepar
I'm reading some disrespectful posts here. It's one thing to engage in witty reparteé, but something else to criticize the holder of a position/opinion because you disagree. Fanboys, please inhale.

Well, here I am discussing RDC-7.1 problems and then out of nowhere I am attacked by 4 or 5 D1 owners telling me how happy they are with their D1's and how bad the RDC-7.1 is. As if Anthem had an immaculate history when it came to bugs and defective units. Look at the problems I had with the D1 vs the ones I had with the RDC-7.1. The D1 had far more problems. And to see how reliable the Anthem software really is please read the long Anthem threads over at HTF; had I known how buggy their software was I would never have bought the D1 in the first place.

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
And to see how reliable the Anthem software really is please read the long Anthem threads over at HTF; had I known how buggy their software was I would never have bought the D1 in the first place.
To provide a point of reference to the Anthem threads at HTF mentioned by Razvanel, here they are:

The Upgraded Anthem AVM-20 2.0 Thread (1740+ posts) (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=150425)

The Upgraded Anthem AVM-20 2.1(1070+ posts) (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?threadid=93545)

It should be noted that most of the software "bug" discussions took place between October 2002 and December 2003, going from software version 2.00 to version 2.12. There were 9 software releases in between those versions, one for a major upgrade (v2.10) and the rest for bug fix versions.

I think it is well documented that Anthem's software has been buggy for quite some time, long before the D1 was ever released.

Michael

Originally posted by Woodrow

I know this; most members who happened to experience the problems you've had would simply contact the manufacturer all the while telling people here that their unit was operating perfectly. That kind of honesty is to be commended.


Thanks. I post here all the problems that I experience with my gear, I don't care who the manufacturer is. Had I been an IR cheerleader I would never have made public all the problems I had with the RDC-7.1.

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
Well, here I am discussing RDC-7.1 problems and then out of nowhere I am attacked by 4 or 5 D1 owners telling me how happy they are with their D1's and how bad the RDC-7.1 is. As if Anthem had an immaculate history when it came to bugs and defective units. Look at the problems I had with the D1 vs the ones I had with the RDC-7.1. The D1 had far more problems. And to see how reliable the Anthem software really is please read the long Anthem threads over at HTF; had I known how buggy their software was I would never have bought the D1 in the first place.

R

. . . roving bands of D1 fanboys . . . trollin' IR threads . . .

You know they're lookin' for meat, right? And if they don't get any, they'll lose interest?

pepar,

Not a constructive comment.

Will

Originally posted by Minge
I have been lurking for a while as a interested by stander. As an owner of an RDC-7 who really wants a pre-pro with HDMI and i-link and room EQ the 7.1 may just be the ticket as I get two out of three.

......

Pressure is on Steve, we are waiting.

Hello Dave,
See if you can play "hooky" from work as you are welcome to come over at 11AM on Friday to hear the comparisons. Anybody else from MN are also welcome so long as we don't have too many. Anybody interested in attending, please PM me.

The reason that this customer is bringing over his D1 was not to do a comparison on processors but more to do what he is "missing something" with dynamics etc. I asked him to also bring his processor and he agreed. Hence, he is bringing over his amp and preamp and wants to figure out what he might be missing (if anything). He also wants to do the experiments in the blind. I am guessing I can dial things in with amplification but the only way we know is by doing by side-by-side comparison. I can guarantee you he is not going to be trading in his D1 as he paid list price locally and the return privileges have expired. There are many who think amps and preamps all sound the same. I have a few digital amp methodologies that I am studying/listening to that will quickly demonstrate this is not at all the case. Dave, we have done experiments at your home with various amps about a year back. I know I don't need to convince you that processors and amps sound different. I mention this because I will be bracing that people are going to tell me that I coudn't hear the differences as all preamps sound the same (or all amps sound the same). If I cannot hear a difference, I will say so. Being in the same class (sonically) as the D1 is an honor.:)

With my ears and my room, I always prefer every bit of information on the recording (top end, bottom end, small dynamics, etc). This does not mean that my ears are right and others are wrong. I simply want as much info as possible from the recording. "Warm" == covering up information in my book. "Warm" also reduces fatigue and is why others prefer it. My preference will be any preamp processor that accomplishes removing "veils" without being bright; of course this including the D1.:)

I have heard the D1 and I have liked it a lot although I have never heard it in my system. Expect me to like it. I already like the IR so assuming I hear differences, I will report on what those are. This is an IR thread (not IR7.1 versus D1) so I want to keep my thoughts brief in passing. I know the person who is bringing over his D1 reads AVS although I am guessing he is a lurker (not a poster). I will see if he wants to post something if I learn he has an AVS ID. :)

Originally posted by Razvanel
The RDC-7.1 sound is very similar to the RDC-7 sound except for the better midrange on the RDC-7.1.

R

So given the above and I get my HDMI and i-link is it worth taking the plunge and upgrade from my 7?

Originally posted by Woodrow
Looks as if I made a mistake jumping on Levesque a couple months back. You are as big a cheerleader for what you own as he is. And yes, I was one of those that PMed Raz awhile back and thanked him for his "down the middle" approach. Sorry I wrote it now.

The pom pom squad is starting to come together nicely,

D1=Levesque
RDC 7.1= Razvanel

Hopefully Steve and others will stay away from this kind of foolishness and pass along useful info.:)
Point take Woodrow. It should be noted I carry IR and not Anthem. I thought I posted this but it won't hurt to do it again. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I don't carry Anthem because I cannot (boxed out of it in MN).:) I would LOVE to carry this line.

I have no interest in being a cheerleader on any specific product. Those who own the D1, you know you have an exceptional product and if I said that the IR "killed" it, you should be questioning my ears and motivation! I absolutely pride myself as being "fair and balanced" which is also known as integrity.

If the D1 owners prefer that I don't post my honest thoughts, I will keep it to myself.

Originally posted by SteveH

If the D1 owners prefer that I don't post my honest thoughts, I will keep it to myself.

Your honest thoughts would be welcomed, at least by me. Maybe it warrants a separate thread to distance from what's happened to the current ones (ah.. wishful thinking..)

Originally posted by SteveH
Point take Woodrow. It should be noted I carry IR and not Anthem. I thought I posted this but it won't hurt to do it again. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I don't carry Anthem because I cannot (boxed out of it in MN).:) I would LOVE to carry this line.

I have no interest in being a cheerleader on any specific product. Those who own the D1, you know you have an exceptional product and if I said that the IR "killed" it, you should be questioning my ears and motivation! I absolutely pride myself as being "fair and balanced" which is also known as integrity.

If the D1 owners prefer that I don't post my honest thoughts, I will keep it to myself.
I didn't mean it to sound like I was lecturing you or anything. You've been a member here far longer than me:) Just do your thing and I'll sit back and read and enjoy.

I too am eager for your honest thoughts on these two units. Thanks for your time!

SteveH.

I will be really happy to hear the results of your comparison. Just like Expletive said, I also just want the best product out there, and would not hesitate to sell my D1 to buy something else if I feel I'm missing something.

I know Woodrow and Raz like to give names and call me a "cheerleader", but I was honest about my D1. It was free of bugs, except for a popping in the right channel that was fixed with a firmware upgrade.

If the IR 7.1 is better, and fits the bill for features I need, I will not hesitate to make the switch. The card base design is really intriguing.

But when poeple are coming here telling us things like "the 7.1 sound ALOT better then the D1", or "the 7.1 wipe the floor with the D1", I can't believe we take those people seriously. That's why I'm always on Raz back. Come on! it's not serious. It's 2 high-end pre/pros we are talking about here.

They sound differentely, for sure. But not "alot" and not "wipe the floor with". They are both pretty awesome for what they do, and both excellent products. But I'm all itchy when someone w/o even any room treatment, come here telling us "it's wiping the floor with...".

"Brightness" and "ear bleeding" in a non-treated room is caused by: modal ringing, excess ambiance, flutter echo and comb filtering. Not because it sound bad. BUT because the room is not optimized, just like Expletive told us a couple of posts ago...

Call me a "cheerleader" if you want, but I think it's legitimate to question poeple telling others that one high-end pre/pro is "ALOT" better then the other.

They sound differently, that I agree. And to each is own ears and needs.

So can we stop exagerating (it's not alot better, it's the room that is causing the problems) and calling name now?

Some poeple here like to put tags on people and call name. But like everyone else here, I'm after the best features and sound in my set-up, and for my ears.

So Steve, don't hesitate to post your results here!

And btw, I totally agree with you on that part: ""Warm" == covering up information in my book. "Warm" also reduces fatigue and is why others prefer it. My preference will be any preamp processor that accomplishes removing "veils" without being bright; of course this including the D1."

"Warm" is covering up for excess ambiance, flutter echo, modal ringing and comb filtering in a non-treated room. Those phenomenas are happening BECAUSE of the room. That's why a non-treated room will always sound better with a "warm" pre/pro. But in a fully treated room, the neutral pre/pro will sound better.

The room is affecting the sound ALOT more then the pre/pro...

Originally posted by Minge
So given the above and I get my HDMI and i-link is it worth taking the plunge and upgrade from my 7?

Not yet, wait a few more months until IR fixes all bugs. The audio dropouts problem for example is not 100% fixed and nobody knows why there's a sound difference between units.

R

Originally posted by LEVESQUE

They sound differentely, for sure. But not "alot" and not "wipe the floor with". They are both pretty awesome for what they do, and both excellent products.


There is a big difference in sound between the warm sounding RDC-7.1 and the D1. There is not such a big difference between the bright RDC-7.1 and the D1. They might both be excellent sounding units but both companies get an F for QC.

R

Originally posted by LEVESQUE

I know Woodrow and Raz like to give names and call me a "cheerleader",


You definitely are an Anthem cheerleader. I myself don't trust your 'opinion' at all.

R

Raz.

I think you like that situation, that's why you insist even after my last post, in calling names to me.

Your room is not treated. And you know I'm right. So calling me a fanboy is easier then simply saying: "yes, I should take some times, make some measurements, and treat my room the good way before telling everyone that one is better then the other, because my room is probably a flutter echo hell and comb filtering galore, and screwing the sound of both pre/pros totally."

And then telling us: "my room is not optimized, so the IR7.1 is sounding better to MY ears because of the warmer sound, because it's compensating for the ringing and excessive echo and comb filtering (aka brightness) of my room". Instead of the "wiping the floor with" comment. Then I would trust you and believe you...

If you prefer a room that is affecting your sound really badly, it's your choice. So I don't have any problems if you still want to call names at me.

I know it makes you feel better. But I won't bite anymore at those remarks.

I'm anxious to hear the results of SteveH, because I will maybe make the switch and try the IR7.1, because I know he will not tell us "x is wiping the floor with y". And when he talks about "warm", unlike you, he knows what he's talking about, and that the room is affecting the sound, and that a warmer sound is not always "better sound".

So I trust him.

Originally posted by LEVESQUE


I think you like that situation, that's why you insist even after my last post, in calling names to me.



Everybody knows that you're an Anthem cheerleader. The fact that you have a treated room - do you really? - doesn't change that.

R

It's useless. **Sigh**. If it makes you happy, call me anything you want. And the IR7.1 is wiping the floor with everything. You won. The IR7.1 is warm and the D1 is "bright" and is causing "ear-bleeding". And your room is not affecting the sound of both pre/pros, and treating a room desn't make a difference, and is not useful at all.

Happy now?

But like Woodrow said, people are now seeing through your cheerleeding and "pom-pom" acting.

I made my point, and I believe people are intelligent enough to understand what I was trying to say about you, and about those 2 awesome pre/pros.

Good luck all! And have fun. It's the only think that matters.

Raz said: "The fact that you have a treated room - do you really?"

Raz, if you want to know how to build a room and to PROPERLY treat a room acoustically, feel free to clik on my link "Construction. Dedicated HT "with a view"" in my signature.

I know you will not, because you are too proud. But it could help you in treating your room and have a better sounding set-up. The room is having a BIGGER impact on your sound then your pre/pro.

I know you are posting at Audioh*lics forum also. So you should read what they say there:

40% for the ROOM, 40% for the speakers and 20% for ALL the rest (including amp and pre/pro). And I totally agree with that.

Quit the bashing and get back this back on topic. This is boring for everyone else.

Originally posted by Razvanel
I myself don't trust your 'opinion' at all.

R

And your "opinions" are starting to lose a lot of credibility now also with many people.

Originally posted by Johnla
And your "opinions" are starting to lose a lot of credibility now also with many people.

That was inevitable. Still, my conscience is clear: everything I said was true.

R

I recently purchased the RDC-7.1 and was setting it up last night. The one thing I wasn't able to configure was the upconversion of composite and S-video inputs to the component output. This feature is described in the RDC-7.1 brochure and on page 6 of the user manual. Unfortunately, there is no description of what options to set for enabling that feature and I spent a long time searching the OSD for it. I have the optional C-VIDEO module and master firmware version 1.06.

Brian

Could you please just give it up before you get this thread closed?

If this thread gets closed or the arguments continue RDC-7.1 users might want to post on a thread I started a few weeks back:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=498635

Brian,

I looked at the download copy of the manual, and I could not see instructions to specifically activate component output. Have you tested to see if your composite or s-video assigned inputs are automatically outputting component when selected? I have not checked, but OSD may not be available via component.

Regards,
Will

The OSD does work over component. The video input options allow me to choose which composite, S-video or component input to use for each video input (1, 2, 3, ...). The choices for component on each input are No, Last, RCA1, RCA2 and RCA3. If I choose Last and switch from an input with component to an input with S-video, I still see the component source over the component output. In that case, only the S-video output switches to the new source. If I choose No, the component output is dark and only the S-video output is used. If I choose one of the RCA component inputs, then obviously that's what I see on the output.

Brian

Brian,

Certainly, this could be more clear.

Possibly you may want to try a couple tests. First, you may want to configure a device that has s-video, but no component. Initially, assign it s-video but no to component. Exit Setup and select the device so S-video is displaying a picture. Go back to Setup and Video assignment submenu and change Component to Last. After exit, see if you get component upconversion on this device. Also check whether it stays partnered with this input, or whether it changes as other s-video sources are selected prior to reselecting this device.

If this doesn't work, you may want to configure one device with no component outs on the device for s-video only-- Component No. You configure another input the same, with the same device, but this time Component Last is selected for Component Sub-Menu. Will the second configuration upconvert to component? If so, is Last a function of the order of Setup or purely related to the last selected video source and could be displaying a number of different video sources depending on what happened to be selected before.

Sorry you have to be the apparent forum pioneer on this. Hopefully, a dealer who has dealt with this successfully can post and clear the air on how this is simply done.

Regards.
Will

Ok, I figured it out after trying this again. It appears to be a slight quirk in how the upconversion works.

When I first turned on the pre/pro, I switched to an S-video source and switched the display to the component input. I immediately saw the S-video source displayed properly. I thought it was strange that upconversion was suddenly working. Then I realized that my component source was turned off, so I turned the DVD player on. Upconversion still worked as long as I switched between non-component sources on the pre/pro. Then I switched the pre/pro to the DVD input. This causes a quiet relay click from the unit during the switch, after which the DVD source is displayed.

At this point I left the DVD player switched on and selected different S-video inputs on the pre/pro. None of the S-video sources were displayed over the component output and I only saw the DVD source. Then I had the idea to power off the DVD player so that its component output would not be active. Within a few seconds, the relay click happened again and I could switch between the upconverted S-video sources. That feature continues to work until I power the DVD player and switch to that input. Lather, rinse, repeat. :)

The configuration that I was using for that sequence was that all S-video sources had composite set to "No", S-video set to the appropriate number and component set to "Last". On the DVD player, I had composite set to "No", S-video set to "Last" and component set to RCA1.

Then I went to all of the S-video sources and changed the component option from "Last" to "No". I did this while the DVD player was turned off, and now the upconversion works as expected even when leaving the DVD player powered up. The reason choosing that option last night didn't work for me was because I never turned off the DVD player during that process. If I had done that, it would have gotten me out of that stuck "Last" mode and behaved how I expected in the first place.

This description is probably going to be pretty confusing to read. It's a little difficult to explain all the options for the video inputs. Now that I have played with those settings for a while, it is starting to make sense to me. There is a section called Video Assign Sub-menu on page 99 of the manual, but it doesn't go into nearly the level of detail that is required.

Brian

As a general rule for the Integra if your not using a connection for an input set it to no. I had this same trouble with my I-link source, unless all other connections for that input are set to no it doesnt work.

WOW Brian your description makes me dizzy. :D Can't wait to begin digging into those menus! :)
Thanks for figuring this out though. My 7.1 is due to come out of the box later next week (FINALLY) so I hope it works :) Otherwise I'll join the Raz brigade for a replacement but I guess at least in that case I'd have a 1.06 version...

TM

Youse guys on the edge are . . on . the . . . edge.


Originally posted by bkzoller
Ok, I figured it out after trying this again. It appears to be a slight quirk in how the upconversion works.

When I first turned on the pre/pro, I switched to an S-video source and switched the display to the component input. I immediately saw the S-video source displayed properly. I thought it was strange that upconversion was suddenly working. Then I realized that my component source was turned off, so I turned the DVD player on. Upconversion still worked as long as I switched between non-component sources on the pre/pro. Then I switched the pre/pro to the DVD input. This causes a quiet relay click from the unit during the switch, after which the DVD source is displayed.

At this point I left the DVD player switched on and selected different S-video inputs on the pre/pro. None of the S-video sources were displayed over the component output and I only saw the DVD source. Then I had the idea to power off the DVD player so that its component output would not be active. Within a few seconds, the relay click happened again and I could switch between the upconverted S-video sources. That feature continues to work until I power the DVD player and switch to that input. Lather, rinse, repeat. :)

The configuration that I was using for that sequence was that all S-video sources had composite set to "No", S-video set to the appropriate number and component set to "Last". On the DVD player, I had composite set to "No", S-video set to "Last" and component set to RCA1.

Then I went to all of the S-video sources and changed the component option from "Last" to "No". I did this while the DVD player was turned off, and now the upconversion works as expected even when leaving the DVD player powered up. The reason choosing that option last night didn't work for me was because I never turned off the DVD player during that process. If I had done that, it would have gotten me out of that stuck "Last" mode and behaved how I expected in the first place.

This description is probably going to be pretty confusing to read. It's a little difficult to explain all the options for the video inputs. Now that I have played with those settings for a while, it is starting to make sense to me. There is a section called Video Assign Sub-menu on page 99 of the manual, but it doesn't go into nearly the level of detail that is required.

Brian

I promised a quick report on the IR7.1 in comparison to the Anthem D1. I never can keep words to a minimum but I will try my best.:)

We finished up to a rather long day (10AM to 4:30PM) listening to amps, speakers, and processors. Dave (AVS handle "Minge") did come out to listen in. His interest was listening to the 7.1 (he is considering the 7.1 over his IR7 for ILINK and HDMI). My recommendation to Dave was spend the money on better speakers unless he was concerned about the slide of resale on his original IR7.) He is so he might bite the bullet and trade it in. Dave owned a B&K REF50 before this and he preferred the IR over it in HIS room. I wouldn't be so quick to make that decision over the exceptional B&K sound but that was his personal preference.

We got through some amps and speakers for about 3 hours before Dave had to go back to work so he only heard the 7.1 (not the Anthem). The reason for the listening session in the 1st place was another customer bought the D1 and A5 and he was "missing something". After an hour phone conversation, we concluded he wanted more dynamics and clarity. I wanted to take the opportunity to listen to the D1 in my system and bench mark the A5 against other amps that I have heard as well.

We focused on STEREO and did listen to the IR7.1 with a few DTS songs and concert tracks. The reason or stereo is simple: If it passes the test in stereo, it will pass in HT (assuming you have good software like PLIIx, etc. and flexibility of bass management). Also, switching in Stereo back in forth quickly is easy. Yes, if you need a lot of flexibility other processors can "win". I wanted to focus on the difference in sonic signatures picking apart each and comparing it to the best I have ever heard in each sub topic.

Anthem D1:
For starts, I have always been impressed with the Anthem Statement cosmetics. I love the way they have the "cheeks" on the ends as it does look elegant to my eye.
Yet another disclaimer; I carry Integra as well as other lines and I also own Gemstone Audio. I pride myself to shoot straight and tell it like it is. As odd as it might seem, if someone wants to buy a Krell or Sherbourn or whatever; I am not married to my "brew". It is yet another option to discuss what they want. I diverge but it I don't want anyone thinking that I am hiding something..

Here are some things we noted about the Anthem D1:
* The digital in versus the analog in (balanced) were extremely close in sound. In other words, the digital in mimicked the analog sound without compression as many other processors that I have heard can do. I went back and forth and other than a level change (analog was louder) the top the sound was extremely close. Anthem did a great job not to let the (long) DSP circuitry to "compress" the stereo sound by going through the DSP's. This often happens with other prepro's. that I have heard.


* Listening in Stereo, the Anthem sound a percent of two more detailed than the dedicated Simaudio P3 preamp/Marantz SA-11 ($2800 and $3500 respectively). In comparison to the Simaudio/Marantz, the D1 had a touch less bottom end as well and an ever so slight thinness. The D1 was absolutely not bright. I suppose if you compare it to an EAD or Bryston SP1.7 you would conclude that it is more detailed but it is not bright. Now, the end result is it sounded GORGEOUS and I could easily live with it in my system. If I was forced give it a signature I'd say it it errored on having more detail than an average processor. Certainly more than the Bryston, EAD, Parasound, MacIntosh, Outlaw, Arcam, ATI, to name a few. I'd also wish it had a fuller mid-bass. The Meridian and the Krell 7.1 have an edge in this category. I'd say both of these prepro's have additional body specifically in the mid bass region. To be fair, I usually lust for this as my MS-5 DALI's ($13,200 list). I could use some more independent of what brand of preamp-processor I pick. I could easily conclude this is not even worth mentioning if I owned a pair of Aerial's for instance. If a preamp processor does not exhibit any thinness, my mid-bass will be barely enough for my personal taste. In this case, both processors removed a little while the stereo preamp was enough. There is no doubt that both processors removed a little. IMHO, both came up a LITTLE short in comparison with a dedicated preamp using a quality source. If my statement is true (pardon the pun), most HT preamps are not as good as great sounding preamps. Good enough for most, but not good enough for the most demanding. Yes, you could have heard this difference if you were here but I certainly was not unhappy. That is why it is called "critical listening".:)

IR7.1:
The IR7.1 is built like a tank and assuming they continue to release boards, it certainly is a logical way of creating a prepro to avoid quick obsolescence. The fit and finish is spectacular on this 55 pound beast. The 7.1 sounds nearly identical to the original IR7. I did not have these side by side but that is what my memory tells me. Therefore, if you have heard the previous version, you should have a good handle on what we heard today.

* The top end of the IR7.1 was not as detailed as the D1. Some people are going to appreciate this SLIGHTLY warmer than neutral sound (Razvanel) while others are not. I would be hard pressed to find anyone who would not find the sound of the IR7.1 to be fantastic. Same goes for the D1.

* As I mentioned early on, I would appreciate more mid-bass on both units and that of course includes the IR7.1. I nulled out the EQ setting but took note that it was at +2db on the EQ setting before I moved it to zero.

*The IR7.1 had a slightly more powerful bottom end in comparison to the D1. If you use a sub, this difference will become meaningless.

In conclusion, neither the D1 or IR7.1 "killed" each other. The flavor of each are slightly different. Some will prefer one over the other. Your neighbor and wife will still wonder what is wrong with you for researching this topic so much.:)
We listened to three amps, they all sounded different. Yes, I'd be happy to pass a blind test in case anybody is wondering. We also listened three preamps (2 HT, one dedicated) and they also all sounded different. When all three of us were listening, our ears correlated suggesting real differences existed. Even though both premps would "meet spec", both of our ears (the 3rd set of ears had to leave) preferred the D1 by a nose although we preferred the features (and price) of the IR7.1. I could easily have called 5 other customers who's ears prefer warmer and they would have concluded the IR7.1 was the ticket. We happened to have two people who like detail.

The difference was not night and day but fairly evident to people who listen carefully. Your next door neighbor might write off the differences as "close enough". So many people hear the words "warmer" to mean warm. The IR7.1 is not warm. If you want warm, pick the Arcam IMHO.

The D1 owner was nervous he was going to prefer the IR7.1 as his return privileges were over on that unit. In the end, he liked his processor and he will be paying a restocking fee to the local Anthem dealer return his A5 amp. I did not guarantee that this would "fix" his concerns but it did bring it closer to what he wanted.

As in any personal decision involving thousands of dollars, the best place to do your listening experiments is in your own home. Quality music and knowing what to listen for will help you pin point the differences quickly.

Hope that helps with some feedback of he differences.

Thank you SteveH!

That's what I'm calling a "professionnal", fair, unbiased and down to earth evaluations of 2 high-ends pre/pros. Bravo! You should post those results in a brand new thread.

Originally posted by SteveH
The D1 was absolutely not bright.

:D So no "ear-bleeding" brightness?

Originally posted by SteveH
I suppose if you compare it to an EAD or Bryston SP1.7 you would conclude that it is more detailed but it is not bright.

Nice compliment for the D1 here. The SP1.7 is not a slouch. But more detailed? I'm impressed. I was able to try the SP1.7 also, and to me it was a little bit more detailed then the D1.

Originally posted by SteveH
The top end of the IR7.1 was not as detailed as the D1. Some people are going to appreciate this SLIGHTLY warmer than neutral sound (Razvanel) while others are not. I would be hard pressed to find anyone who would not find the sound of the IR7.1 to be fantastic. Same goes for the D1.


So no "wiping the floor with" between those 2? Normal. We are talking about 2 excellent high-end pre/pros. A "warm" sound will usually compensate for a room with excessive ambiance and/or comb filtering and flutter echo. So a "warm" pre/pro (or we should say with a not as detailed top-end...) will usually sound better in a non-optimized room with not enough mid/hi absorption.

Originally posted by SteveH
In conclusion, neither the D1 or IR7.1 "killed" each other. The flavor of each are slightly different. Some will prefer one over the other.

Different ears, different needs and different rooms also. So both will fit the bill in acoustically different rooms, depending on the liveliness and ambiance of the room. If your room is to "live", then a pre/pro with a less detailed top-end will sound better. if you have enough mid/hi absorption in the room, then a more neutral and more reveiling pre/pro will sound better.

Originally posted by SteveH
The IR7.1 is not warm. If you want warm, pick the Arcam IMHO.

Nice job SteveH! That's exactly what I was saying... 2 excellent pre/pros, but with some MINOR differences, sonically. Features can also play a big part in the choice between those 2.

Originally posted by SteveH
I would be hard pressed to find anyone who would not find the sound of the IR7.1 to be fantastic. Same goes for the D1.


For a moment I thought I was reading a Sound and Vision review. Is there anything you don't like?

It's very easy for me to find someone who doesn't think that the D1 sounds fantastic: my wife. According to her 'the D1 sounds like a castrated RDC-7.1'.

R

Hello LEVESQUE,
Thanks for the post. I find it interesting on how to define the magnitude of difference a person hears. I found some of the differences to be rather large while others found the differences to be "minor". So the question is, what IS a major and minor difference????
This leads to a lot of confusion in comparing any component. There are differences that my wife would call extremely minor that I would be willing to pay several thousand dollars for my main system where "good enough" is not in the vocabulary.
In other words, many describe major differences as if they can hear it fairly easy. Well, using this definition, the differences were major. But most (including the two others in the room) described it as obvious but not major.
I do understand how people can suggest "huge difference" because it is a HUGE deal for them to get the 'better sound". Using a inexpensive Marantz preout versus a D1 for instance will result in say double or triple the difference we heard. So is that still minor or is it finally a MAJOR difference. Again, the Marantz preout is not terrible but not in the same league.
I have come to the conclusion "major" is misused and really means "I can hear it without to much of a problem".:)

Originally posted by Razvanel
For a moment I thought I was reading a Sound and Vision review.

SteveH.

Don't listen to that. The minute you see a comment like "x wipe the floor with y", you know it's not serious, particularly when talking about 2 high-end pre/pros like those 2 products. It's like comparing the new Sony Qualia and JVC HD2K projectors. They are both awesome. But there is only minor differences between those 2 also.

The IR7.1 and D1 are both pretty awesome. You need to decide which one will meet your needs feature wise to be able to choose which one you need.

Because your opinion about those 2 pre/pros doesn't relate with is opinion, Raz will try to put you upside down. Some people are like that. They need to have the last word. :rolleyes:

But I was really surprised at your conclusion compared with the Bryston SP1.7. The SP1.7 is an impressive machine, particularly with 2ch audio. It's like a dedicated 2ch pre/amp in an SSP. I did choose the D1 over the SP1.7 only because the SP1.7 was a little bit short on the features list. For me, it was a really tough decision betweeen those 2 pre/pros.

" have come to the conclusion "major" is misused and really means "I can hear it without to much of a problem".

And that's exactly a description of the room effect. Flutter echo and comb filtering can get really annoying if you don't know it's "that" you are hearing. But when you treat your room to get rid of that, it's like a revelation. Raz wife is hearing the room effect and don't like it. The "ear-bleeding" effect is caused by the room, not the pre/pro.

I would also like to know the source and amp you were using, and a small description of the room were the comparison was performed, if it's ok with you.

But I really think you should start a new thread about your comparison. We are hi-jacking this thread.

Originally posted by Razvanel
For a moment I thought I was reading a Sound and Vision review. Is there anything you don't like?

It's very easy for me to find someone who doesn't think that the D1 sounds fantastic: my wife. According to her 'the D1 sounds like a castrated RDC-7.1'.

R
Thanks for the post.
Yes, there many products I don't like but that does not make me right if someone likes it. Some items are frankly pretty poor IHMO. Scratch you head kind of performance for big $$'s. I cannot post this but you are certainly welcome to call me at 763-753-9349 and I will tell you. :) I simply cannot get that vocal as a dealer and as a manufacture. That being said, I posted my honest thoughts but not every thought every time in every post. In this post, this is my honest thoughts and I have nothing to sugar coat. If I was self serving, I'd say I LOVED the Integra. If you read the text, I said I liked a more detail sound. That means I like the Krell 7.1, B&K, Meridian as well. Some of these I carry, some I don't. The darker the processor sounds, the less I like it. Pick the warmest sounding processor. amp, or preamp and you just listed my not so favorite items. Some of those that are thinner AND dark combined hit the bottom of my list. I am certainly not going to debate that I am right and someone else is wrong.:)

I don't carry Anthem but I cannot imagine someone not liking the D1 listening to them on my speakers in my room today. Anyone who thinks the D1 is "terrible" I'd say is a tough person to please, had a defective unit, or their room or speakers are not an ideal match. I am assuming you are not saying it is terrible, I am just making a general statement.

For the record, I don't think Sound and Vision uses such strong words as "prefer".:D

Originally posted by LEVESQUE

Because your opinion about those 2 pre/pros doesn't relate with is opinion, Raz will try to put you upside down. Some people are like that. They need to have the last word. :rolleyes:

Please allow me to review the review: the review was very predictable, very long, and, worst of all, very politically correct. Lots of very's.

As far as the difference in sound between the two processors is concerned my wife described it the best. She said in two words what others couldn't in 50,000 words. She is, you must agree, a genius.

R

Hello LEVESQUE,
I am very sure Raz is a nice guy and he believes what he says. I also am sure he was not fond of the Anthem and with his room, his ear, his speakers, it sounded bright. I am convinced he is saying this with all sincerity. :)

As for the source, I was using the $3500 Marantz SA-11 SACD player. A fantastic sounding player. I also had a Simaudio 2 channel preamp (P3) hooked up to the A5 Anthem (customers) Gemstone Blue Diamond (he bought this amp after the audition) and I also had a demo Class D that I have a couple more revs remaining to squeeze out some more performance.

I have about a 16 x 32 x 8 room. Room nodes are pretty ideal at my listening position which is 17 feet back from the front wall. The room sounds FANTASTIC. The ratios are pretty good and it is pretty big which helps overall sound. No brightness at all as my reflections are down 8db looking at it with the audio analyzer.. I am going to add corner traps but other than that, it is a very nice sounding room.:)

Originally posted by SteveH
I cannot imagine someone not liking the D1 listening to them on my speakers in my room today. Anyone who thinks the D1 is "terrible" I'd say is a tough person to please, had a defective unit, or their room or speakers are not an ideal match.

And after trying 4 different IR7.1 units, Raz is probably not that "someone"... :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Razvanel
As far as the difference in sound between the two processors is concerned my wife described it the best. She said in two words what others couldn't in 50,000 words. She is, you must agree, a genius.

And Raz. Why are you hiding under your wife's skirt? When out of arguments, you just say: "my wife says so, so it must be right!". She's probably wearing "pom-poms" when listening to the IR7.1... :p

We all know who's wearing the pants in your house now! :D

Originally posted by SteveH
I am very sure Raz is a nice guy and he believes what he says. I also am sure he was not fond of the Anthem and with his room, his ear, his speakers, it sounded bright. I am convinced he is saying this with all sincerity. :)

Good thing you did put a smiley in there, because for a second I tought you were serious...

Originally posted by SteveH
As for the source, I was using the $3500 Marantz SA-11 SACD player. A fantastic sounding player. I also had a Simaudio 2 channel preamp (P3) hooked up to the A5 Anthem (customers) Gemstone Blue Diamond (he bought this amp after the audition) and I also had a demo Class D that I have a couple more revs remaining to squeeze out some more performance.

That was a good source and amp to do that kind of comparison IMHO.

Originally posted by SteveH
I have about a 16 x 32 x 8 room. Room nodes are pretty ideal at my listening position which is 17 feet back from the front wall. The room sounds FANTASTIC. The ratios are pretty good and it is pretty big which helps overall sound. No brightness at all as my reflections are down 8db looking at it with the audio analyzer.. I am going to add corner traps but other than that, it is a very nice sounding room.:)

That's a good start. The room is having the BIGGEST impact on everything you hear in it.

Hello LEVESQUE,
I am not interested in getting pulled into any debates. :)

Razvanel, I am sorry you felt that I was being "predictable" etc etc. If my aim was to be predictable I would be that my ears strongly prefer the brand that I carry.
I stated that the D1 is more detailed and I liked its sound. I personally would never use the word bright describing the D1. More detailed than an average processor?... absolutely. Our ears don't agree. You and your wife have a right to your opinion.

I will bow out of the discussion and keep the peace. If anybody has any questions, feel free to PM me.
Over and out!

Thanks Steve.
For what I consider to be both a informative, AND a unbiased review! Of the two very similar products.

Originally posted by LEVESQUE
SteveH.

Don't listen to that. We all know where this AVS member stands now...

Levesque, give it a rest, s'il vous plait.

Originally posted by SteveH
Thanks for the post.
Yes, there many products I don't like but that does not make me right if someone likes it. Some items are frankly pretty poor IHMO. Scratch you head kind of performance for big $$'s. I cannot post this but you are certainly welcome to call me at 763-753-9349 and I will tell you. :) I simply cannot get that vocal as a dealer and as a manufacture. That being said, I posted my honest thoughts but not every thought every time in every post. In this post, this is my honest thoughts and I have nothing to sugar coat. If I was self serving, I'd say I LOVED the Integra. If you read the text, I said I liked a more detail sound. That means I like the Krell 7.1, B&K, Meridian as well. Some of these I carry, some I don't. The darker the processor sounds, the less I like it. Pick the warmest sounding processor. amp, or preamp and you just listed my not so favorite items. Some of those that are thinner AND dark combined hit the bottom of my list. I am certainly not going to debate that I am right and someone else is wrong.:)

I don't carry Anthem but I cannot imagine someone not liking the D1 listening to them on my speakers in my room today. Anyone who thinks the D1 is "terrible" I'd say is a tough person to please, had a defective unit, or their room or speakers are not an ideal match. I am assuming you are not saying it is terrible, I am just making a general statement.

For the record, I don't think Sound and Vision uses such strong words as "prefer".:D

I appreciate your candidness and thoroughness, and therefore I greatly respect your opinion. If you hold an opinion different from mine, that does not diminish my opinion of you. In fact, it would probably challenge me to revisit why I hold the opinion(s) that I do. The truth is that different does not - or should not - equate to wrong. At least not in my mind.

Originally posted by Razvanel
Please allow me to review the review: the review was very predictable, very long, and, worst of all, very politically correct. Lots of very's.

As far as the difference in sound between the two processors is concerned my wife described it the best. She said in two words what others couldn't in 50,000 words. She is, you must agree, a genius.

R

I know that there's entertainment value to be derived from continuing this jabbing; heaven knows I've relished in it myself. But, can't you just accept an opinion as just that? Steve was merely accounting his observations. And I though he did a splendid job of leaving room for other opinions.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SteveH
[B]I promised a quick report on the IR7.1 in comparison to the Anthem D1. I never can keep words to a minimum but I will try my best.:)

We finished up to a rather long day (10AM to 4:30PM) listening to amps, speakers, and processors. Dave (AVS handle "Minge") did come out to listen in. His interest was listening to the 7.1 (he is considering the 7.1 over his IR7 for ILINK and HDMI). My recommendation to Dave was spend the money on better speakers unless he was concerned about the slide of resale on his original IR7.) He is so he might bite the bullet and trade it in. Dave owned a B&K REF50 before this and he preferred the IR over it in HIS room. I wouldn't be so quick to make that decision over the exceptional B&K sound but that was his personal preference.


Actually, to refresh Steve's memory, I became an IR owner kind of by default. I was upgrading from a B&K ref 20 to a 50 and the 50 had some strange interface problem with my then Pioneer rear projection TV. We tested three 50's and all with the same result. After looking at alternatives and talking to Steve I went with the Integra piece and I been very happy with it. If not for that, I would still be in the B&K camp.

My motivation, as Steve said, was to hear for myself if there were sonic improvements over my 7 to justify the .1 of the equation as the features of the 7.1 I would really enjoy having. After a short listening session, I would say the 7 and the point .1 do not have enough sonic differences for me to take the plunge at this point.

Off topic the Gemstone to my ears was simply superb! The Gemstone was detailed, punchy and lots of air!! Bravo Steve!

Again off topic, I fell in love with the Dali Euphonia MS5's the upgrade bug is biting.

I wish I had stayed for the whole session yesterday but some people have to work for a living. I will say this, Steve has the best ears of anyone I know and his listening room given the odd configuration is surprisingly very neutral in my view. This forum is a very useful tool for both research and good banter for opinions and sometimes fact. People are always going to defend their purchasing decisions. I have wanted to spend money with Steve in the past and he has at times he has showed my why it is not a sound decision. These are two very respectable pre-pros we are not talking about an Outlaw versus a Lexicon, I seriously doubt one "wiped the floor" with the other. Bottom line, someone took their valuable time to give you his views and we should be thankful for that. If you do not agree, take it for what it is worth and move on.

How was that for pointless babbling
:D :D

Originally posted by Minge
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SteveH
[B]

My motivation, as Steve said, was to hear for myself if there were sonic improvements over my 7 to justify the .1 of the equation as the features of the 7.1 I would really enjoy having. After a short listening session, I would say the 7 and the point .1 do not have enough sonic differences for me to take the plunge at this point.

IR is still supposed to deliver on the Firewire upgrade to the RDC-7. With that addition, there would seem to be even less of a reason to go from 7 to 7.1. I certainly wouldn't do it for a new variation on DPL.

Bottom line, someone took their valuable time to give you his views and we should be thankful for that. If you do not agree, take it for what it is worth and move on.

Very good advice, Minge. Sound even. :)

Originally posted by LEVESQUE

And Raz. Why are you hiding under your wife's skirt? When out of arguments, you just say: "my wife says so, so it must be right!". She's probably wearing "pom-poms" when listening to the IR7.1... :p

We all know who's wearing the pants in your house now! :D

Where else can I hide? By the way, even from under my wife's skirt the D1 still sounded bright!

As far as pants go, you might be interested to know that I don't wear any. I'm Scottish.

R

Originally posted by pepar
But, can't you just accept an opinion as just that?

Rhetorical questions confuse me: are you talking to me or to yourself? Anyway, the answer is nein.

R

Originally posted by Minge
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SteveH
[B]My motivation, as Steve said, was to hear for myself if there were sonic improvements over my 7 to justify the .1 of the equation as the features of the 7.1 I would really enjoy having. After a short listening session, I would say the 7 and the point .1 do not have enough sonic differences for me to take the plunge at this point.


A good friend of mine who has the RDC-7 also heard the RDC-7.1 at a dealer and has reached the same conclusion as you did.

Still, to me, the RDC-7.1 sounds better. The midrange is much improved and IR took care of the double bass problem. Not to mention that feature wise there's no comparison between the two. The RDC-7.1 is the future, the RDC-7 is dated.

R

[ I'd say both of these prepro's have additional body specifically in the mid bass region. To be fair, I usually lust for this as my MS-5 DALI's ($13,200 list). I could use some more independent of what brand of preamp-processor I pick. I could easily conclude this is not even worth mentioning if I owned a pair of Aerial's for instance. If a preamp processor does not exhibit any thinness, my mid-bass will be barely enough for my personal taste. In this case, both processors removed a little while the stereo preamp was enough. There is no doubt that both processors removed a little. IMHO, both came up a LITTLE short in comparison with a dedicated preamp using a quality source. . [/B][/QUOTE]

Steve - thanks very much for the informative and useful comparison. I may be a little thick but didn't completely understand what you were trying to say about Aerial speakers. Can you clarify? Thanks.

Thanks for your time and effort Steve. I enjoyed the review.:)

Steve,

What was the firmware revision of the Integra used in the review??

But, can't you just accept an opinion as just that?

Reply posted by Razvanel
Rhetorical questions confuse me: are you talking to me or to yourself? Anyway, the answer is nein.

R

Now I'm confused; if I was talking to myself, wouldn't I have said "can't I just accept . . ?

This isn't a troll, I'm serious. I'm curious if you guys have any technical explanation for these warm/thin/bright/etc. evaluations? I usually associate those words with a deviation from flat frequency response but that can't be it. I'm quite sure all these high-end units will measure flat within a small fraction of a dB between 20 and 20K so it has to be something else. Some sort of distortion or jitter from the DACs or distortion in the analog preamp stages maybe?

I remember reading somewhere that modern dacs tend to smooth off the high frequency end of the curve, althought it can be disabled most manufacturers enable it.

The dacs themselves seem to effect the sound also even though they will measure frequency flat with such filters disabled, Wolfson setups like Integra/Arcam tend to be warmer. I myself rather like the Wolfson sound (This comes from me seeming to like products that use Wolfson, the CD192 is the best CD player Ive heard).

Originally posted by Krobar
I remember reading somewhere that modern dacs tend to smooth off the high frequency end of the curve, althought it can be disabled most manufacturers enable it.

The dacs themselves seem to effect the sound also even though they will measure frequency flat with such filters disabled, Wolfson setups like Integra/Arcam tend to be warmer. I myself rather like the Wolfson sound (This comes from me seeming to like products that use Wolfson, the CD192 is the best CD player Ive heard).

Is your RDC-7.1 warmer sounding after the break-in? Mine is definitely very warm, I even think that it's got even warmer with time.

R

I finally got mine RDC-7.1, all I can say is "spectacular". My only gripe is that there is still no support for WMA lossless, which forces me to use two programs instead of one(WM player to create the folders and the tags and Roxio to extract the wave files) Do you guys know if the Nettune chip inside the RDC-7.1 is even capable of decoding WMA lossless?

It sounds like you were able to download the Net-Tune software for the RDC-7.1. What was required to do that?

I posted earlier that the Net-Tune module does not need the ability to decode WMA lossless or any other lossless format. The software on the PC can convert those formats to WAV and stream that format to the module. The module already understands the WAV format. Apparently, that feature isn't working yet but it is part of their plans. I see that you posted in that same thread so this is probably a repeat for you.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5037019#post5037019

Brian

Originally posted by krassyg
I finally got mine RDC-7.1, all I can say is "spectacular".

Congratulations, it's a killer processor and there's nothing in its price range that compares to it in terms of build quality, sound, and features.

How would you characterize the RDC-7.1 sound? Bright, warm, neutral?

What's the master firmware version on your unit?

R

I have not had enough time to play with it yet, but I would say that is is "neutral". My speakers are neutral, maybe that is why(Infinity Prelude MTS). I e-mailed Onkyo about the WMA lossless problem. Any of you guys have a direct e-mail for IR?

Originally posted by krassyg
I have not had enough time to play with it yet, but I would say that is is "neutral". My speakers are neutral, maybe that is why(Infinity Prelude MTS). I e-mailed Onkyo about the WMA lossless problem. Any of you guys have a direct e-mail for IR?

Unfortunately, no direct e-mail for IR. Could you please check the master firmware version on your unit? What modules did you get?

R

Raz,

It has warmed a little, I was told 100 hours is full break in. I still have a bright sound but my setup is in construction at the moment. I should get a seperate 30amp circuit with seperate ground installed tomorrow which should sort the dirty power in my HT room and I get the ordered interconnects next week (Im using 4 loaned cables for 4.1 at the moment :) )

If all the above and the expected 1.06 software update appear next week then I'll be ready to make a final judgement. My room is wooden floored and hence prone to a bright sound so if after the above is done and I still have a bright sound I'll get the HAA guy in to treat the room.

The firmware on mine is 1.06. I only got the multichannel and the Nettune Module. I have a Gefen DVI switcher already, and I don't have any analog sources that need upconverting. After spending some time with the setup, it does sound more natural/tubelike than my old setup(Parasound Halo C2/ Sherbourn 7/2100/ Infinity Interlude IL60). My new amps are Classe(CAM-200x2 plus one CAV-180) driving a full Infinity Prelude MTS System. Does anybody know which chip is responsible for Nettune? I want to research to see if it is capable of WMA Lossless. You guys won' believe how much better your CD's sound when saved as .wav on a PC as opposed to going SPDIF Coax into the unit from a stand alone CD player.

CD and Lossless should sound the same, they sound the same on my setup. The only reason I can think of is if your CD player has alot higher jitter.

Originally posted by Krobar

the expected 1.06 software update appear next week

Is IR going to have 1.06 available on their website or are they e-mailing it to you?

R

I dont think its going to be available on the website but I could be wrong. I do know that some dealers are getting p*ssed off with IR telling users to ship their units to service centres for a firmware upgrade and hence their current firmware policy is very unpopular with both users and dealers.

Originally posted by Krobar
their current firmware policy is very unpopular with both users and dealers.

The current policy needs to be changed. Having firmware updates available on their site would make life easier for everybody.

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
The current policy needs to be changed. Having firmware updates available on their site would make life easier for everybody.

R

Including IR. I'd like to hear the "other side" of the issue, the reasoning against having it on their site. Perhaps it's only inertia that needs to be overcome. I dunno . . .

There was a month delay in putting up the manual, we could be looking at the best part of a year for firmware :)

Originally posted by Krobar
There was a month delay in putting up the manual, we could be looking at the best part of a year for firmware :)

"Maybeware?" "Eventuallyware?" "Soonerorlaterware?" Whatever, it needs a new name!

If they posted the firmware on the web, they might actually have to explain what changed in each new version. Oh, the horror! ;)

Brian