Originally posted by bkzoller
If they posted the firmware on the web, they might actually have to explain what changed in each new version. Oh, the horror! ;)

Brian

It might confuse the customer because we all know every firmware is perfect from the start and firmware numbers magically change just for fun.

Originally posted by bkzoller
If they posted the firmware on the web, they might actually have to explain what changed in each new version. Oh, the horror! ;)

Brian

Based on the simple-sh_t answers I've been getting asking them about the Firewire upgrade for the RDC-7, I'd guess is would go something like this:

v1.06 Firmware change log

1. Version number changed from v1.04 to v1.06.

Originally posted by Lyson
[ I'd say both of these prepro's have additional body specifically in the mid bass region. To be fair, I usually lust for this as my MS-5 DALI's ($13,200 list). I could use some more independent of what brand of preamp-processor I pick. I could easily conclude this is not even worth mentioning if I owned a pair of Aerial's for instance. If a preamp processor does not exhibit any thinness, my mid-bass will be barely enough for my personal taste. In this case, both processors removed a little while the stereo preamp was enough. There is no doubt that both processors removed a little. IMHO, both came up a LITTLE short in comparison with a dedicated preamp using a quality source. .

Steve - thanks very much for the informative and useful comparison. I may be a little thick but didn't completely understand what you were trying to say about Aerial speakers. Can you clarify? Thanks. [/B][/QUOTE]

Some speakers have more "body" in the mid base region than others. One reason could be that the the speaker has additional distortion with its woofer, another reasons could include resonate frequencies in the cabinet that come out in this spectrum. Even other speakers could actually intentionally (or unintentionally) have a bump in that midbass frequency range.

Additional reasons could include room node void that "suck out" a specific amount of energy at your listening position. The final reason might be that your speakers have a more "polite" top end and therefore you hear the midbass more easily.:)

For any or all of these reasons, some speakers or rooms could actually appreciate less "body" from an amp or a preamp especially with some very thick midbass speakers. For instance, the Dynaudio Special 25 (Again IMHO) could have done a better job with its cabinet as I hear the box when listening to this speaker while its C1 could appreciate the thicker sound of a Bryston amp.

The Aerial IMHO has a polite top end with a richness about it in that midbass region. With a floor standing Areial speakers polite top end, it would be my guess that they wouldn't be as sensitive to a touch of thinness.

Rest assured that these were repeatable in comparison to all of the preamps. We did put the B&K REF50S2 (quickly) in the mix using "direct" (analog bypass). If you know what you are listening for, it is easy to put your finger on the what you wish it had more or less of.

Roman, (the customer who knew he was missing "something" and brought over his Anthem gear) had a pretty decent ear and was quick with telling me his assessments. Our ears correlated very well other than the magnitude. For instance, I was rather hard on one of the digital amp prototype I gathered both customers opinions on while they said it was "pretty good". So in essence, "good enough" is much more palatable for some that others. That certainly does not make them wrong, actually more sane!:) :D

Originally posted by Krobar
Steve,

What was the firmware revision of the Integra used in the review??

V1.03. I would be absolutely shocked if the firmware affected the sound a nickel. I am not saying you were insinuating this, I was just giving my opinion as well as Integra's.:)

I got an email from a customer who wanted to put the IR7.1 though the paces against his MC-12B (just for fun) at his home. I know he is a AVS member so maybe he can give some feedback. He is picking it up over his lunch hour today.

He asked what I thought the differences in "flavor" might be. I didn't want to give him any preconceived notions so I asked him for his opinions once he is done as not to possibly skew them. Kevinbrown if you are lurking, it is Imre. I will let Imre give his assessment if he cares to.:)

Originally posted by catapult
This isn't a troll, I'm serious. I'm curious if you guys have any technical explanation for these warm/thin/bright/etc. evaluations? I usually associate those words with a deviation from flat frequency response but that can't be it. I'm quite sure all these high-end units will measure flat within a small fraction of a dB between 20 and 20K so it has to be something else. Some sort of distortion or jitter from the DACs or distortion in the analog preamp stages maybe?
Thanks for the post catapult as I was have been asking myself this question lately as well.:)

I find this question fascinating and I am sure we will have some differing opinions. I am very sure that speakers, amps, and preamps all shoot for a linear FR (and many accomplish this). In fact, a db (or even two) up or down will not make a big enough difference to alter your opinion on a specific product all that much. What we heard using different products probably had nothing to do with frequency response in its classic sense.

I have some thoughts on this but I am going to ask a few audio designers their personal take on it over the next several days to gain their opinions and I can post them as well. My 1st guess has to do with the opamps as well as the analog layout more than the DAC's. If DAC's sound different (and I am sure they do) it is my guess it has more to do with the AC (analog conversion) than the DA (digital to analog). I have heard this from circuit designers when I worked for Honeywell making semiconductors (process develoment lab, not the designlab) in the early 90's and I have no way of verifying or proving this statement is true. The analog sections IMHO is where major differences exist (other than if things are messed up digitally including jitter, low bit rate etc). Hence a $150 DVD player sounds the same to me as a $6K model using DIGITAL out. Yes to ME, a coax sounds the same as an optical cable. Sure the analog audio out and picture looks different but I cannot hear any differences with digital out.

In years to come when we have a digital out on the prepro's dodging the opamp and analog section I think performances will get much much closer in signatures and the performance will be nearly identical to one another.:)

What we perceive as a frequency difference could be related to the speed of the circuit or the frequency DOES get altered with the complexities of music versus a straight sine wave used in measurements. I don't know for sure so I will go ask the guys who design this stuff.:)

In amplifiers, if I hear a "smooth amp" I find it cannot keep up to fast passages (and demonstrated in our demo that day). This "smoother sound" sounds "warmer" almost like it has a reduced frequency. Hopefully that all made sense.:)

HEY! You guys see the cool news about Onkyo and iPods? According to posts on engadget and gizmodo (too lazy to link sorry!) Onkyo is working on a dock connector that would allow Onkyo (and presumably I and IR) gear to dock an iPod on the receiver/pre-pro and control it directly with the IR remote.

Kinda cool.

TM

Originally posted by SteveH
V1.03. I would be absolutely shocked if the firmware affected the sound a nickel. I am not saying you were insinuating this, I was just giving my opinion as well as Integra's.:)

Could you please ask Integra what differences are there between firmware versions 1.03, 1.04, 1.05, and 1.06?

At least one of them, probably 1.04, was an attempt to fix the audio dropouts problem.

R

Has anyone had any success sending email to IR and actually getting a response? I sent them a question about a week ago and have heard nothing.

Originally posted by ssblount
Has anyone had any success sending email to IR and actually getting a response? I sent them a question about a week ago and have heard nothing.

I have recently emailed from their website and received a reply about two days later. It was a reply if you consider "we don't know anything and if we do, it'll be on our website" a reply. Sort of like a recent president's "I didn't do it and I won't do it again."

I mentioned earlier that I planned to use the MX-850 remote with the RDC-7.1. The database of remote codes for the MX-850 editor program does not include Integra Research but does include Integra. I chose the preprogrammed remote codes for the DTR-9.4 and those control the RDC-7.1 just fine. Those codes include discrete commands for inputs, power and most of the listening modes. The only codes that are not discrete act as toggles between the various options for similar listening modes, such as between DPLII Movie, DPLII Music and DPLII Game modes for example. So far I have not had to teach any remote codes from the original remote to the MX-850.

Brian

Originally posted by Razvanel
Could you please ask Integra what differences are there between firmware versions 1.03, 1.04, 1.05, and 1.06?

At least one of them, probably 1.04, was an attempt to fix the audio dropouts problem.

R
I spoke with Tech support today and they said that the differences between all the versions were based off of build runs. Meaning, 1.06 are the runs of latest builds. Very possibly these have firmware differences inside of them but not according to the person I spoke with.
I was extremely specific and asked the question 3 different ways (mentioning I was surprised that is what was meant by it ect etc etc). She did not waver. She said no updates are available because no updates were done and it exclusively had to do with what units they grabbed to do the build.
While I do find this to be unique, I would hope IR would know the answer. Anyways, that is what I learned.:)
Steve

Where are the base units and modules actually manufactured? Do they build them in Japan and ship the base units and modules to the US for final assembly? I think someone asked earlier but nobody had the answer.

Brian

Originally posted by SteveH
I spoke with Tech support today and they said that the differences between all the versions were based off of build runs. Meaning, 1.06 are the runs of latest builds. Very possibly these have firmware differences inside of them but not according to the person I spoke with.
I was extremely specific and asked the question 3 different ways (mentioning I was surprised that is what was meant by it ect etc etc). She did not waver. She said no updates are available because no updates were done and it exclusively had to do with what units they grabbed to do the build.
While I do find this to be unique, I would hope IR would know the answer. Anyways, that is what I learned.:)
Steve

Steve,

Thanks for the info. Based on my experience with 3 RDC-7.1's and my discussions with both my dealer and the IR rep I'm certain that the tech you spoke to was wrong. The master firmare versions address defects and are not just runs of latest builds.

R

Originally posted by bkzoller
Where are the base units and modules actually manufactured? Do they build them in Japan and ship the base units and modules to the US for final assembly? I think someone asked earlier but nobody had the answer.

Brian

Brian,

The base units and the modules are manufactured in Japan and shipped to the IR warehouse in Torrance, CA. Once the dealer places the order IR installs the modules, tests the unit, and then ships it to the dealer.

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
Brian,

The base units and the modules are manufactured in Japan and shipped to the IR warehouse in Torrance, CA. Once the dealer places the order IR installs the modules, tests the unit, and then ships it to the dealer.

R

That might explain why the IR contacts in the US don't know about the different firmware versions. That is something they don't normally deal with in the process that you described.

Brian

Originally posted by bkzoller
That might explain why the IR contacts in the US don't know about the different firmware versions. That is something they don't normally deal with in the process that you described.

Brian

Brian,

The firmware upgrades are done at the Torrance warehouse. I think that the software engineers in Japan/US revise the firmware and then send the new firmware to the warehouse.

R

Originally posted by bkzoller
Where are the base units and modules actually manufactured? Do they build them in Japan and ship the base units and modules to the US for final assembly? I think someone asked earlier but nobody had the answer.

Brian

The human genome project will be complete long before we know the answer.

Originally posted by Razvanel
Steve,

Thanks for the info. Based on my experience with 3 RDC-7.1's and my discussions with both my dealer and the IR rep I'm certain that the tech you spoke to was wrong. The master firmare versions address defects and are not just runs of latest builds.

R

Makes perfect sense; new builds are only done to change things. Hopefully, for the better.

I seem to be very cynical this evening.

Originally posted by pepar
The human genome project will be complete long before we know the answer.

The human genome project is already complete. IOW, they did the grunt work of mapping out all the genes but have barely started to figure out what it all means.

http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/home.shtml

So, what's the answer? ;) For that matter, what was the question? I seem to have forgotten already. :D

Brian

Originally posted by anthonymoody
HEY! You guys see the cool news about Onkyo and iPods? According to posts on engadget and gizmodo (too lazy to link sorry!) Onkyo is working on a dock connector that would allow Onkyo (and presumably I and IR) gear to dock an iPod on the receiver/pre-pro and control it directly with the IR remote.

Kinda cool.

TM

I was bored so I tracked this down. It looks like they are planning to use the RI port for remote control and analog RCA jacks for the audio from the iPod dock to the Onkyo receiver. Somehow I find this less exciting than it would have been had they planned to use Net-Tune.

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000777033505/

Brian

FYI there's a base RDC-7.1 on ebay, item number 5755385600.

R

hmmm.... well I sure as hell would not bid on that item on ebay. Asside from the fact that the modules installed are not listed, the seller has only 1 previous transaction and it was a purchase for some shirts, he didn't even sell anything...

And he calls the RDA-7 a six-channel amp with 200 watts per channel, which is incorrect on both points.

Originally posted by Fallen Kell
hmmm.... well I sure as hell would not bid on that item on ebay. Asside from the fact that the modules installed are not listed, the seller has only 1 previous transaction and it was a purchase for some shirts, he didn't even sell anything...

The RDC-7.1 in the picture is a base unit. I wouldn't buy it from him either. In fact, I would never buy a used RDC-7.1 since the warranty is not transferrable.

R

Originally posted by Steve Goff
And he calls the RDA-7 a six-channel amp with 200 watts per channel, which is incorrect on both points.

Right. Not to mention that he might be selling a 1.03 RDC-7.1. The 1.06 RDC-7.1 is a better unit than the 1.03 RDC-7.1.

R

Originally posted by SteveH
Thanks for the post catapult as I was have been asking myself this question lately as well.:)

I find this question fascinating and I am sure we will have some differing opinions. I am very sure that speakers, amps, and preamps all shoot for a linear FR (and many accomplish this). In fact, a db (or even two) up or down will not make a big enough difference to alter your opinion on a specific product all that much. What we heard using different products probably had nothing to do with frequency response in its classic sense.

I have some thoughts on this but I am going to ask a few audio designers their personal take on it over the next several days to gain their opinions and I can post them as well. My 1st guess has to do with the opamps as well as the analog layout more than the DAC's. If DAC's sound different (and I am sure they do) it is my guess it has more to do with the AC (analog conversion) than the DA (digital to analog). I have heard this from circuit designers when I worked for Honeywell making semiconductors (process develoment lab, not the designlab) in the early 90's and I have no way of verifying or proving this statement is true. The analog sections IMHO is where major differences exist (other than if things are messed up digitally including jitter, low bit rate etc). Hence a $150 DVD player sounds the same to me as a $6K model using DIGITAL out. Yes to ME, a coax sounds the same as an optical cable. Sure the analog audio out and picture looks different but I cannot hear any differences with digital out.

In years to come when we have a digital out on the prepro's dodging the opamp and analog section I think performances will get much much closer in signatures and the performance will be nearly identical to one another.:)

What we perceive as a frequency difference could be related to the speed of the circuit or the frequency DOES get altered with the complexities of music versus a straight sine wave used in measurements. I don't know for sure so I will go ask the guys who design this stuff.:)

In amplifiers, if I hear a "smooth amp" I find it cannot keep up to fast passages (and demonstrated in our demo that day). This "smoother sound" sounds "warmer" almost like it has a reduced frequency. Hopefully that all made sense.:)

Steve, what interconnects do you use in your setup? Were these the same ones used in your A/B comparison last week? I am in the process of going from RCA to XLR and am interested in hearing what you used (it sounds like, successfully) and what your general thoughts are on cables. Any truth in all silver strand cables?

John

Originally posted by Razvanel
Right. Not to mention that he might be selling a 1.03 RDC-7.1. The 1.06 RDC-7.1 is a better unit than the 1.03 RDC-7.1.

R

Ah, but that is pure speculation, turning correlation into cause and effect.

The listing and the lister seem a weee bit dodgy, so speculation is natural.

The GSPR site has high resolution photos of the IR products now. :)

http://www.gspr.com/iresearch/ir_photos.html

Brian

http://www.gspr.com/iresearch/int_rsch.html

The A/V processor and DVD player are IEEE-1394 capable, and the processor's operating system and surround formats are upgradeable via software that can be uploaded from a PC.

Hmmm, sure. It can be uploaded from one of IR's PCs but not one of their customer's or dealer's PCs. :( :rolleyes: I guess that is an older press release because it mentions the RDC-7 as the processor.

Brian

Originally posted by Expletive
Steve, what interconnects do you use in your setup? Were these the same ones used in your A/B comparison last week? I am in the process of going from RCA to XLR and am interested in hearing what you used (it sounds like, successfully) and what your general thoughts are on cables. Any truth in all silver strand cables?

John
Hi John,
I am not a cable believer although I got some decent stuff just in case. ;)

It was some Harmonic Tech. More of their "budget" stuff.

Don't blow a lot of $$'s on it. The performance differences are in the analog or speakers.

Originally posted by SteveH
Hi John,
I am not a cable believer


I'm not a cable believer either, the most expensive cables I got cost $5.

R

Originally posted by SteveH
I am not a cable believer although I got some decent stuff just in case. ;)


Did you use RCA or XLR cables between the pre/pro and the amp? I am wondering because my current amps only have RCA, so I am unable to compare the two types of cables myself.

Brian

Originally posted by bkzoller
Did you use RCA or XLR cables between the pre/pro and the amp? I am wondering because my current amps only have RCA, so I am unable to compare the two types of cables myself.

Brian

I ask the amp vendor what measures better. For instance, Krell says "Balaanced" and Plinius says 'RCA".

The owner of Plinius has balanced because the market wants it but his circuit is simpler with RCA (hence in a purest sense, it is better). No surprise that Peter Thomson (owner of Plinius) goes RCA.

You won't find anyone passing a XLR/RCA blind test. It is more theory than practical.
:) If it measures better, I would go that route. We tested with Balanced (both amps and processors). Hey, we are guys so I went balanced because I can.:D

I had a fair bit lower noise floor with balanced which made the decision pretty easy for me.

SteveH: "Measures better" on what spec and at what cable length? I don't see how there can be a one-size-fits-all answer. Balanced is certainly better for longer runs and/or an electromagnetically noisy environment.

Krobar: That's exactly the advantage of balanced.

I've experienced a strange problem with my RDC-7.1: when playing a certain CD through the 7.1 multichannel analog inputs or through the regular analog inputs there's high frequency distortion on track 3 on that CD from 2:49 to 2:56. The distortion only happens with that CD and only on that track, always in the same spot, other CD's are fine. There's no distortion when I use the digital inputs or when I use the analog inputs set to 'direct' or 'pure audio', only when the listening mode for the analog inputs is set to 'multichannel', 'stereo', or 'DPLIIx'.

I've replaced the amps, speakers, CD players, cables, the distortion is still there. I've played the CD in my car stereo, boom box, computer, and there's no distortion.

Any ideas?

R

Does anyone know what crossover slope is used for bass management settings for the 7.1?

Thanks,
Will

High frequency distortion update: I duplicated the problem on an Onkyo 702 receiver so it's either an Onkyo/IR problem or there's something wrong with the CD.

R

Originally posted by Will Gibbons
Does anyone know what crossover slope is used for bass management settings for the 7.1?

Thanks,
Will

I couldn't find the slope information in the manual and it does not seem to be configurable. I think the slope settings are documented for THX standards, which is apparently what you get for an 80 Hz crossover, but there might be different slopes for other crossover frequencies. Someone could test the slopes with an SPL meter by playing just the sub and then by playing just the mains. I don't have a sub yet so I can't do the test right now.

Brian

Originally posted by Razvanel
High frequency distortion update: I duplicated the problem on an Onkyo 702 receiver so it's either an Onkyo/IR problem or there's something wrong with the CD.

R

You can test the CD using Exact Audio Copy. Use the program to extract that track to a WAV file. If there are errors on the CD, the program will usually tell you how far into the track they occurred.

Brian

Originally posted by bkzoller
You can test the CD using Exact Audio Copy. Use the program to extract that track to a WAV file. If there are errors on the CD, the program will usually tell you how far into the track they occurred.

Brian

Brian,

Thanks, I'll try that.

How do you like your RDC-7.1 so far?

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
How do you like your RDC-7.1 so far?

R

I really like it. The overall impression is that it is a higher quality piece compared to my old B&K. At some point, I want to hook up the analog outputs of the B&K to the analog inputs of the IR to make it possible to switch quickly between the two. They sound slightly different from each other but I don't know how to describe it. I also replaced my speakers about two weeks before getting the new pre/pro, so I didn't have much time with the B&K on those speakers. I only have enough amplifier channels for five speakers, but eventually I will use seven.

The biggest change for me are all of new processing modes that I didn't have before. DPLII isn't new to most people, but I'm really enjoying using DPLII Movie for TV viewing. I also want to try DPLII Music mode soon.

Brian

Originally posted by bkzoller
They sound slightly different from each other but I don't know how to describe it.


Does your RDC-7.1 sound warm to you? I heard some B&K processors and receivers in the past and they all sounded warm to me, similar to my RDC-7.1.

R

I always thought B&K pre/pros were bright. Their amps tend to be on the warm side because they use MOSFET output devices, but their pre/pros were always bright when I've heard them.

Originally posted by Kevin C Brown
I always thought B&K pre/pros were bright. Their amps tend to be on the warm side because they use MOSFET output devices, but their pre/pros were always bright when I've heard them.

That's always been my perception as well. But one person's "bright" (a negative) might be the next person's "detailed" (a positive).

Originally posted by Kevin C Brown
I always thought B&K pre/pros were bright. Their amps tend to be on the warm side because they use MOSFET output devices, but their pre/pros were always bright when I've heard them.

The B&K's I heard were all connected to B&K amps, maybe that's why they sounded warm to me?

If the B&K's are bright and Brian's RDC-7.1 sounds similar to his B&K then his RDC-7.1 is bright?

Let's see what other people think:

SteveH: neutral sound
Krassyg: neutral
Krobar: bright
Brian: bright (?)
My dealer: warm
Me: 1st unit: bright, 2nd and 4th unit: very warm.

R

Hmm, balances out to zero, unless VERY warm scores extra points! Hard to know what to make of this...anyone see a pro or semipro review online or on paper yet?

Got my RDC-7.1 Friday! I'll follow-up with more details but for right now has anyone successfully been able to register on-line? It doesn't recognize my SN and without registering I cannot D/L the Net-Tune SW.

Originally posted by gimp
Got my RDC-7.1 Friday! I'll follow-up with more details but for right now has anyone successfully been able to register on-line? It doesn't recognize my SN and without registering I cannot D/L the Net-Tune SW.

I haven't tried registering it online yet - I don't have Net-tune. Please let us know the master firmware version on your unit and when it was manufactured.

R

Originally posted by gimp
Got my RDC-7.1 Friday!

I thought you had an Anthem D1 processor???

R

I registered mine by Email and Integra sent me a free Bar Set a few weeks back, its pretty good quality :)

Gimp,

YGPM

Originally posted by Kevin C Brown
I always thought B&K pre/pros were bright. Their amps tend to be on the warm side because they use MOSFET output devices, but their pre/pros were always bright when I've heard them.

I never had the impression that my B&K was bright, but the amps I am using are from Parasound. Perhaps those also use MOSFETs and would be considered warm. Also, the speakers I used the most on the B&K were an old set of Polks. Perhaps those were laid back and cancelled out any possible brightness from the B&K.

I do think the B&K and the IR have a different sound to them. Whether that makes the IR warm or neutral is hard for me to determine. Also, the DACs on the B&K are quite a bit different because they only go up to 16 bit/48 kHz. I hope to test the two pre/pros side by side with equal volume levels some day, just for my own curiosity. A more interesting comparison would be against a current model from B&K. Maybe SteveH would have an opportunity to help with that.

Brian

Originally posted by gimp
Got my RDC-7.1 Friday! I'll follow-up with more details but for right now has anyone successfully been able to register on-line? It doesn't recognize my SN and without registering I cannot D/L the Net-Tune SW.

We raised that issue about the download before. I'm unsure whether that was resolved. Only the Onkyo site seems to have the download, but that requires a serial number from an Onkyo product. The TX-NR1000 is the closest choice to the RDC-7.1 on that list.

Brian

Guys,

Will I need the video module to provide the OSD? I just bought the 7.1 and had no plans to use it to switch any video sources. Can I utilize the RS-232 port?

thanks,

marty

Marty,

Yes you will need the video module for OSD.

You can use the RS232 port for automation and control, I use it and its a very reliable and comprehensive RS232 implementation.

Originally posted by mfb

Will I need the video module to provide the OSD?

I think that you do need it. What's the master firmware version on your unit?

R

Version 1.06.

I talked with IR and will need the video module.

marty

Audioholics have reviewed the RDA-7.1 amp:

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/IntegraResearchRDA71p1.html

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
Audioholics have reviewed the RDA-7.1 amp:

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/IntegraResearchRDA71p1.html

R
Damn...my NAD amp is 140x7(8ohms) and the Integra is 150x7(8 ohms) but the integra weighs in at 155 pounds while my NAD is 70 pounds....

I think I've been shorted somewhere...

On top of this, the NAD was SUPPOSED to be THX certified. When I ordered it their website claimed THX certification, but by the time it arrived they had yanked all references to THX from their website and my amp arrived without THX certification. I'm still pissed about that.

Originally posted by Razvanel
Audioholics have reviewed the RDA-7.1 amp:

Yeah, but at a $5000 MSRP. It's also overpriced for a 150wpc amp.

Originally posted by Woodrow
Damn...my NAD amp is 140x7(8ohms) and the Integra is 150x7(8 ohms) but the integra weighs in at 155 pounds . .

Is this a typo? It's really 155 pounds?!?!

Originally posted by Johnla
Yeah, but at a $5000 MSRP. It's also overpriced for a 150wpc amp.

I agree. It looks like the RDA-7.1 amp was made by ATI, not BAT. The first IR amp, the RDA-7, was a BAT amp.

R

Originally posted by pepar
Is this a typo? It's really 155 pounds?!?!
That link Raz provided says 155 pounds. Pretty frickin heavy for 150x7!

Actually it's 155.7 pounds...;)

Originally posted by Razvanel
I agree. It looks like the RDA-7.1 amp was made by ATI, not BAT. The first IR amp, the RDA-7, was a BAT amp.

R

If it was designed or made by ATI, then IR needs to update their web page. It says about the RDA-7.1, "Integra Research has teamed up with Balanced Audio Technology to go beyond the definition of what a power amplifier should and can do."

http://www.integraresearch.com/model.cfm?id=2&level=1

Brian

Originally posted by Woodrow
That link Raz provided says 155 pounds. Pretty frickin heavy for 150x7!

Actually it's 155.7 pounds...;)

I've worked with some beastly commercial sound reinforcement amps already, but that makes 'em all look like wimps.

Originally posted by Razvanel
The B&K's I heard were all connected to B&K amps, maybe that's why they sounded warm to me?

If the B&K's are bright and Brian's RDC-7.1 sounds similar to his B&K then his RDC-7.1 is bright?

Let's see what other people think:

SteveH: neutral sound
Krassyg: neutral
Krobar: bright
Brian: bright (?)
My dealer: warm
Me: 1st unit: bright, 2nd and 4th unit: very warm.

R

Sorry that I have been away. The "all amps sound the same thread" was too interesting to leave!:)

The B&K is slightly more forward than the IR. About like the D1 but more polished. I still love the B&K sound. That is not for everyone but it floats my boat.

I have heard the "bright comment before with the REF50 series. I think most prepro's remove top end a little so it seems "bright". Go listen to a live sax. It is "bright" as well (I guess)... So if the B&K reproduces this like a sax should sound, they say it is also bright. (if that made sense).

Page 2 and Scorecard on Page 5 of the review speak of 115 lbs. The initial 155 lbs shown at the very beginning may be a typo. However, the big BAT VK-6200 is very heavy. I looked into one a couple years back, and as I recall, it was 180 lbs. with a 6-channel configuration.

I must have missed it, but where is the info saying this is an ATI amp?

Thanks,
Will

Originally posted by Will Gibbons
Page 2 and Scorecard on Page 5 of the review speak of 115 lbs. The initial 155 lbs shown at the very beginning may be a typo. However, the big BAT VK-6200 is very heavy. I looked into one a couple years back, and as I recall, it was 180 lbs. with a 6-channel configuration.

I must have missed it, but where is the info saying this is an ATI amp?

Thanks,
Will

The IR website says 115.7 pounds for the RDA-7.1. It also says 20.9 lbs for the RDC-7.1, however, and that doesn't seem right. The pre/pro is probably about 20.9 kg instead, so either source could have the typo.

Page 4 of the review says, "Although the faceplate of the RDA-7.1 has the name Balanced Audio Technologies (a company known for its tube amplifiers), the bulk of the real circuit design was done by ATI Amplifier Technologies."

Brian

Brian,

Thanks. I have had good experiences with ATI, including the AT1504's and AT6012. However, they are considerably less expensive than Suggested List for this unit. It would be interesting to find out what the relationship with BAT and ATI are regarding this amp.

Regards,
Will

Regardless of who now is the primary 'builder' of this amp which appears to be ATI per the review, the amp's design still is a collaboration between IR and BAT. Also, to say that the review of the RDA 7.1 is 'glowing' understates the reviewer's comments. This amp tested at 188W/channel @ 8 ohms, and 320W when it started to clip. Serious numbers!

Has anyone here followed the reviews from Audioholics?
Are those reviews reliable?

I may have found the amp to replace my Krell KAV-1500. Now if only IR had the HDMI 4:1 module ready!!
Bish

Point of difference here; when I hear someone describe a reproduced sax as warm, bright, forward, etc, that says to me "wrong." If they say "natural" or, much, much better yet, "it sounded like the sax was in the room," then I'm thinking WOW!

This may be s semantical issue, but any adjective but "natural" just connotes (to me) "unnatural."

Originally posted by thebishman
This amp tested at 188W/channel @ 8 ohms, and 320W when it started to clip. Serious numbers!


I noticed that as well. The minimum for THX Ultra2 seems to be 150 WPC @ 8 ohms. The Ultra2 spec probably includes a maximum THD rating which the amp was able to beat at 150 WPC, but not at the higher value. That's just a guess, however.

Brian

Originally posted by thebishman
This amp tested at 188W/channel @ 8 ohms, and 320W when it started to clip. Serious numbers!

Yes but it was also at 1% distortion, and it also looks like was done with only the one front left channel being driven.
And if so, then it's really not so impressive at all.

Because this is also the same ways that many have done such testing, in order to get some of these inflated power ratings for receivers...

I was reading an Onkyo 1000/Integra 10.5 universal players thread on Audiogon and someone mentioned that "I even communicated in detail about the Wolfson DACs used in the Onkyo/Integra, and how they are no longer in production (Back in October, Wolfson considered it an obsolete part)." Are the RDC-7.1 DAC's the same as the ones used in the universal players? Are they really obsolete?

R

Search this thread for "Wolfson." There was some discussion about it back in November.

Brian

Originally posted by bkzoller
Search this thread for "Wolfson." There was some discussion about it back in November.

Brian

Thanks, I did the search and apparently the DAC's used in the universal players are the same as the RDC-7.1 DAC's: the Wolfson WM8719. Are these DAC's obsolete?

R

Here's another question: when using the 7.1 analog multichannel inputs for DVD-A or SACD, what is the difference between the 'multichannel' setting and the 'direct' setting? As far as I know 'direct' = analog direct. Is 'multichannel' = analog direct?

R

Thanks, I did the search and apparently the DAC's used in the universal players are the same as the RDC-7.1 DAC's: the Wolfson WM8719. Are these DAC's obsolete? I seem to recall a while back that Wolfson was getting sued by another DAC manufacturer for patent infringement and I thought that it was for their latest generation products. I may have been dreaming but I don't think so. Does anybody else recall?

Originally posted by Phil Rose
I seem to recall a while back that Wolfson was getting sued by another DAC manufacturer for patent infringement and I thought that it was for their latest generation products. I may have been dreaming but I don't think so. Does anybody else recall?

I do recall mention of that some time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, but I do not recall the details.

FYI: Here is a link to an article discussing the lawsuit,

http://www.cirrus.com/en/investors/releases/P379.html

and a link to the current list of Wolfson DACs.

http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/digital_audio/dacs/

The WM8719 is not on the list.

Why would it matter to an IR customer whether the Wolfson WM8719 is discontinued or whether Wolfson products are the subject of a patent infringement lawsuit?

Brian

Originally posted by bkzoller
Why would it matter to an IR customer whether the Wolfson WM8719 is discontinued or whether Wolfson products are the subject of a patent infringement lawsuit?

Brian

I thought that maybe the sound difference I heard is due to a change of DAC's. Maybe some RDC-7.1's have the WM8719 DAC's and other RDC-7.1's have other DAC's.

R

The WM8719 has never been on Wolfson's official list of DACs, though it could, until lately, be found on their website with the aid of search engines. It seems doubtful that Onkyo has changed to some other Wolfson DAC, since most of Wolfson's other DACs are likewise challenged by the Cirrus lawsuit. A midstream change to the DAC board could be made, but that seems highly unlikely, at least until something more concrete happens in the lawsuit.

Why would it matter to an IR customer whether the Wolfson WM8719 is discontinued or whether Wolfson products are the subject of a patent infringement lawsuit?

Brian I was wondering if this might have been the reason that the RDC7.1 had such a long delay from the original date to when it was really available. Maybe they had to design out the Wolfsons??? Other than that I don't think it matters a wit what DAC is in there as long as it sounds good.

Originally posted by Phil Rose
I was wondering if this might have been the reason that the RDC7.1 had such a long delay from the original date to when it was really available. Maybe they had to design out the Wolfsons??? Other than that I don't think it matters a wit what DAC is in there as long as it sounds good.

Who wants to volunteer to open up their RDC-7.1 and find the part number on the DACs inside? :cool: They apparently chose the Wolfson part based on its native DSD mode, so any replacement would need the same feature.

I heard the delays in the release date were due to software problems rather than hardware. Now that they have released the product, IR apparently generates new versions of software just for the purpose of identifing different manufacturing builds. ;) :D Or, so we're told.

Brian

Originally posted by bkzoller
Who wants to volunteer to open up their RDC-7.1 and find the part number on the DACs inside?

Audioholics will do it for us. Their RDC-7.1 review will be out tomorrow.

R

Originally posted by bkzoller

IR apparently generates new versions of software just for the purpose of identifing different manufacturing builds.

I myself was never told that. That's the BS they told SteveH. The new software versions are released to fix bugs.

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
I myself was never told that. That's the BS they told SteveH. The new software versions are released to fix bugs.

R

That was the reason for the smileys. :) I agree with you.

Brian

I spoke to Jose at Onkyo support yesterday. He seemed to have some idea what was happening with firmware. He said the current version is 1.07 and that the main fixes were for I-Link and HDMI issues. He also said the firmware changes lists they get only cover the larger changes and not every last detail. The first public firmware release is scheduled for late April apparently.

It seems to depend on who you speak to as to what answer you will get, for example a month ago the supposed head of Tech denied there were any firmware changes :)

Originally posted by Krobar
He said the current version is 1.07 and that the main fixes were for I-Link and HDMI issues.

So the master firmware version was 1.03 in December and now it's 1.07. By the end of the year the firmware will be 1.16???

R

Raz,

Do you still have an RDC7.1?

Originally posted by Krobar
Raz,

Do you still have an RDC7.1?

Yes, of course, I've kept the 4th one. Master firmware version 1.06. It's not perfect - the audio dropouts problem hasn't been completely fixed yet and there's distortion when playing a certain CD via the analog inputs - but it's better than the previous 3 units.

R

Would any of these helpful Onkyo contacts know anything about the - and I do feel a bit out of step here in spite of the thread subject - Firewire upgrade to the RDC-7? I'm having difficulty getting anything out of IR by email.

Originally posted by pepar
Would any of these helpful Onkyo contacts know anything about the - Firewire upgrade to the RDC-7?

Unfortunately no. Sadly, the IR customer support is a total mess.

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
Unfortunately no. Sadly, the IR customer support is a total mess.

R

I only ask because Krobar mentioned someone knew about (the RDC-7.1's) software . . .

Originally posted by pepar
I only ask because Krobar mentioned someone knew about (the RDC-7.1's) software . . .

Check this link:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=12485

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
Check this link:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=12485

R

Saddening at times, maddening at others. I don't regret buying my IR and, under the same circumstances, I'd make the same decision again. I was a fully informed consumer fresh from the flame wars here on AVSF over the Firewire upgrade. But while I'm happy with my IR, I am unhappy with IR. It should not be necessary, but I am now gong to escalate and call them. I am perfectly capable and willing to be a squeaky wheel.

Originally posted by pepar
But while I'm happy with my IR, I am unhappy with IR. It should not be necessary, but I am now gong to escalate and call them. I am perfectly capable and willing to be a squeaky wheel.

Good luck finding someone who knows the difference between firewire and firmware and the difference between an RDC-7 and an RDC-7.1. The link that Razvanel posted didn't look very promising on either count. :rolleyes: Maybe you want to include the term i.Link in when you talk to them, just in case.

Brian

Pepar,

Just ask to speak to Jose.

Originally posted by Krobar
Pepar,

Just ask to speak to Jose.

Thanks. I left a voicemail message for him. It was a breath of fresh air to see Onkyo had phone numbers. And a voicemail system that was easy to navigate and find Jose's extension.

Are you guys calling the regular Onkyo #? I want to ask them about the Net-Tune lack of WMA Lossless support.

Originally posted by krassyg
Are you guys calling the regular Onkyo #? I want to ask them about the Net-Tune lack of WMA Lossless support.

yep, da regular #.

Audioholics: "I cannot verify DAC models since the units are already boxed up."

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
Audioholics: "I cannot verify DAC models since the units are already boxed up."

R

Boxcutter and tape . . . as that's how they opened and sealed it in the first place.

Originally posted by pepar
Boxcutter and tape . . . as that's how they opened and sealed it in the first place.

Plus they need a screwdriver to remove the screws holding the cover in place.

Originally posted by bkzoller
Plus they need a screwdriver to remove the screws holding the cover in place.

Gosh, that's right. Bet that was the deal-breaker . . .

How bizarre!!! They probably had the unit for at least a few weeks, no time to check the DAC's???

R

Audioholics RDC-7.1 review:

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/IntegraResearchRDC71p1.html

Gene has an RDC-7.1 in his reference system, but he probably doesn't want to open that one either.

http://www.audioholics.com/about/staffsystems/system1.php

Brian

Originally posted by gimp
Audioholics RDC-7.1 review:

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/IntegraResearchRDC71p1.html

I read the review as far as page 2 but now it isn't there any more.

Brian

Originally posted by bkzoller
I read the review as far as page 2 but now it isn't there any more.

Brian

Use the direct page numbers. The review isn't finalized.

Brian,

I thought I had lost my server connection when I tried to go to page 3. I still have page 2, but all the other pages are "This page cannot be found".

Will

I'm getting "404 Not Found" on every page I tried. Maybe we have different cache settings, because I can no longer get pages 1 and 2.

Brian

Originally posted by Will Gibbons
Brian,

I thought I had lost my server connection when I tried to go to page 3. I still have page 2, but all the other pages are "This page cannot be found".

Will

Looks like the pulled it until the final version is released. I only got to page 5 but up to that point it was an excellent review. If my memory serves me correctly, criticisms included lack of: analog video up-conversion to HDMI, notch filter, room correction.

It looks like the DAC's info was left out on purpose - Wolfson/Cirrus issue.

R

I read the Audioholics review. Here is what I posted in the Audioholics thread discussing the unit:

"I just finished reading the review. A few comments:

1. You wrote: "If Integra Research supports hardware and firmware updates, it could make for an unprecedented value for a high caliber home theater system based on its performance, open architecture design, configuration flexibility, and ease of operation."

Well, as of now Integra Research DOES NOT support firmware updates i.e, one cannot download new firmware revisions from their website. The current master firmware version is 1.07, your review unit was 1.03, the unit I have is 1.06. Right now the only way to have the firmware updated is to send the unit back to Integra Research - that's ridiculous.

2. You should have mentioned in your review the DAC's model number. It's not your problem that Cirrus sued Wolfson. You, as a reviewer, have a duty to inform your readers.

3. The RDC-7.1 suffers from audio dropouts with some OTA HD sources. The 1.03 firmware was horrible, 1.06 was much improved but the audio dropouts are still there, just not as noticeable as before.

4. The bass/treble settings on the RDC-7.1 are global, IR's previous processor, the RDC-7, had individual settings. Maybe this can be corrected with a firmware update."

Here is the link to the Audioholics thread:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=51591#post51591

R

Another comment: sound wise the RDC-7.1 didn't score as well as the RDC-7. Here are the Audioholics ratings for both units:

2 channel performance:

RDC-7: 10 out of 10
RDC-7.1: 4.5 out of 5

muti-channel music:

RDC-7: 10 out of 10
RDC-7.1: 3 out of 5

DD/DTS:

RDC-7: 10 out 0f 10
RDC-7.1: 4.5 out of 5

DPLII/DTS Neo:

RDC-7: 10 out of 10
RDC-7.1: 4.5 out of 5

And something very weird: the RDC-7 scored a 10/10 for build quality while the RDC-7.1 scored a 4.5/5. And yet, in their review the Audioholics wrote: " the RDC-7.1's physical appearance and build quality have no rival." Go figure.

R

I got to programing the remote for the rest of my components... what an abomination! There are no cable codes for the two most popular cable boxes, Scientific Atlanta and Motorola. I tried Pioneer, no go. I have to do it the old fashion way, button by button. I also hate the scroll wheel! What remote controls are capable of RS-232 control, besides Crestron, AMX and RTI, in case I dump this POS?

Originally posted by krassyg
I got to programing the remote for the rest of my components... what an abomination! There are no cable codes for the two most popular cable boxes, Scientific Atlanta and Motorola. I tried Pioneer, no go. I have to do it the old fashion way, button by button. I also hate the scroll wheel! What remote controls are capable of RS-232 control, besides Crestron, AMX and RTI, in case I dump this POS?

No idea about the 232 control. The remote is a POS indeed.

R

As expected, my friends over at Audioholics have quietly deleted some of my posts. I take this opportunity to congratulate them on a job well done: dear Audioholics, you are very good at removing posts!

I wonder why this is the first Audioholics review where the DAC's model number is not mentioned? I remember their researching, discussing, and criticizing the DAC's in the Anthem D1 for not handling SACD natively and yet they didn't put much effort at all in finding any info about the RDC-7.1 DAC's. Are the DAC's in the RDC-7.1 a matter of national security?

R

I'm surprised he did not remove all of them. After looking at the ones that he did leave up.

Originally posted by Johnla
I'm surprised he did not remove all of them. After looking at the ones that he did leave up.

They left some up??? Amazing!

R

I just recieved my Firmware update :)

I went from 1.03 to 1.06. A few comments:
1) Its a large 15Mb File
2) The firmware versions reported by the update are much more complex and 1.06 lines up to 5.XXXX. This supports the idea that the version number is only a hint and multiple 1.06s could exist.
3) Update was smooth but takes about an hour (It keeps you informed)
4) It has fixed the brightness on my system and now sounds damn good! :) :) :) :)

I'll report more when I have time

Originally posted by Krobar
I just recieved my Firmware update :)

I went from 1.03 to 1.06. A few comments:
1) Its a large 15Mb File
2) The firmware versions reported by the update are much more complex and 1.06 lines up to 5.XXXX. This supports the idea that the version number is only a hint and multiple 1.06s could exist.
3) Update was smooth but takes about an hour (It keeps you informed)
4) It has fixed the brightness on my system and now sounds damn good! :) :) :) :)

I'll report more when I have time

Wow, congratulations!!!

First, how did you get it?

Second, so I was not lying when I told you guys that I had different sounding units in my system. The firmware version does make a difference. The reviews from both SteveH and Audioholics are now obsolete as they reviewed 1.03 units.

R

I got it by EMail. Ive sent a copy to my dealer.

My belief is the DBass setting (Present in 1.03 but not 1.06) has been removed and defaulted to DBass and I was running the wrong setting on 1.03. Treble has not been changed but bass seems to have increased to a point where the system now sounds detailed but balanced, much nicer than it was. Of course this is just an educated guess because I assumed DBass meant "Double Bass" (ie. duplicate below crossover to sub) when I setup the 1.03 unit.

Looks like IR have now removed this confusing setting.

Audioholics' picture of the RDC-7.1 with top off shows the D to A conversion board, just behind the transformer and in front of the chassis backplane wall. The purple block is the Apogee clock. A larger version of this picture could well show the numbers on the DACs, though it seems very unlikely that they've changed. Of course, after being attacked as he was, Gene might not provide a larger version.

Originally posted by Krobar
I got it by EMail. Ive sent a copy to my dealer.

My belief is the DBass setting (Present in 1.03 but not 1.06) has been removed and defaulted to DBass and I was running the wrong setting on 1.03. Treble has not been changed but bass seems to have increased to a point where the system now sounds detailed but balanced, much nicer than it was. Of course this is just an educated guess because I assumed DBass meant "Double Bass" (ie. duplicate below crossover to sub) when I setup the 1.03 unit.

Looks like IR have now removed this confusing setting.

So Jose sent you 1.06 by e-mail? Is he going to keep on sending you revisions via e-mail?

As far as DBass is concerned, DBass = Double Bass. When you set your front speakers to 'full band" you can choose between Double Bass and LFE only. I had versions 1.03, 1.04, and 1.06 and they were all the same when it came to the Double Bass/LFE only setting. I myself hate Double Bass and was very surprised to read that Audioholics recommended using that setting. Double bass was a problem with the old RDC-7 - I complained to IR millions of times about that and now they have corrected the problem with the RDC-7.1.

R

Originally posted by Steve Goff
Audioholics' picture of the RDC-7.1 with top off shows the D to A conversion board, just behind the transformer and in front of the chassis backplane wall. The purple block is the Apogee clock. A larger version of this picture could well show the numbers on the DAC's

So it's now clear that they could have easily found out what DAC's were used in the RDC-7.1 but for some 'mysterious' reason they refused to tell us what the DAC's were. I thought that the reasons they gave me for not providing that info were ridiculous and told them so. Not to mention that criticizing Anthem for the DAC's used in the D1 while never mentioning what DAC's IR used in the RDC-7.1 was not very professional.

R

But they may well not know that that was the D to A convesion board, and the notion that they refused to tell about it seems speculative at best.

Not sure why this information is so critical, they did explain that DSD must be converted to PCM which is all that should be relevant no?

John

By the way, the most troubling aspect of the review was the noise performance with SACD. This should not happen with proper convesion from DSD to PCM. I'm not sure this is something that can be fixed in firmware. It is also troubling that the unit did not mute until DTS lock with the DTS discs.

Originally posted by Steve Goff
By the way, the most troubling aspect of the review was the noise performance with SACD. This should not happen with proper convesion from DSD to PCM. I'm not sure this is something that can be fixed in firmware.

Agreed, i posted the same thing on another thread. I would be STEAMING right now if i bought this thing for iLink and had this problem. Hopefully it can be fixed easily.

John

Originally posted by Steve Goff
But they may well not know that that was the D to A convesion board, and the notion that they refused to tell about it seems speculative at best.

Are you suggesting that they are incompetent?

The reasons they gave me for not providing the info were ridiculous and contradictory.

R

Originally posted by Steve Goff
By the way, the most troubling aspect of the review was the noise performance with SACD. This should not happen with proper convesion from DSD to PCM.


It's possible that the module was defective. They should have asked IR to send them another module or another unit. If the new unit had the same problem then they could have concluded that there was something wrong with the RDC-7.1 firewire connection. I had 3 defective units in a row, their unit could also have been defective.

R

So it's now clear that they could have easily found out what DAC's were used in the RDC-7.1 but for some 'mysterious' reason they refused to tell us what the DAC's were. I thought that the reasons they gave me for not providing that info were ridiculous and told them so. Not to mention that criticizing Anthem for the DAC's used in the D1 while never mentioning what DAC's IR used in the RDC-7.1 was not very professional.

Yikes
To date I have not seen a more comprehensive review of the RDC 7.1
Not that professional? Do you know what kind of work it takes to write a review like that so all can gaze upon it for free?
If you truly want the info on the DAC's I believe that these are the ones used

Originally posted by Ray

Do you know what kind of work it takes to write a review like that so all can gaze upon it for free?


It's irrelevant whether the review was free or not.

R

Originally posted by Ray

To date I have not seen a more comprehensive review of the RDC 7.1


FYI the Audioholics review is the only RDC-7.1 review to date.

R

Raz,

I also reported the DTS issue which I mentioned about a month ago on the forums, Integra have since replicated the problem and are attempting a fix, if the fix is not put up for public download I'm sure Jose will Email it to me.

Does your unit have the DBass option in Crossover settings?

Why do you distrust Audioholics?

Steve,

The noise is not that high at all. I dont believe the RDC does convert DSD to PCM, it appears to deal with it natively (Although this is unconfirmed), The DTS issue will be fixed or at least a fix is planned. As I said in my last post I reported a related problems with DTS CD locking and Onkyo have promised a fix soon (Most likely for all DTS CD probs), I was told this before the Audioholics review was published.

Originally posted by Krobar
Raz,

Why do you distrust Audioholics?

When reviewers, or at least the owners/editors of a site, have "financial arrangements" with manufacturers, there is always a suspicion of less than 100% objectivity in reviews. There are dozens of ways to avoid embarassment, or outright financial loss, to a sponsor.

Originally posted by pepar
When reviewers, or at least the owners/editors of a site, have "financial arrangements" with manufacturers, there is always a suspicion of less than 100% objectivity in reviews. There are dozens of ways to avoid embarassment, or outright financial loss, to a sponsor.

What are you saying here?

John

Originally posted by Krobar
Raz,

I also reported the DTS issue which I mentioned about a month ago on the forums, Integra have since replicated the problem and are attempting a fix, if the fix is not put up for public download I'm sure Jose will Email it to me.


Krobar,

I think that you said that Jose had told you that the latest firmware version was 1.07, why didn't he e-mail you that one and sent you 1.06 instead?

R

Originally posted by Krobar

Does your unit have the DBass option in Crossover settings?


Yes, my unit has it. In the manual is called DBass but on the RDC-7.1 display it shows up as Double Bass. All my RDC-7.1's had the Double Bass option. That option is only available when the front speakers are set to 'full band'. If the main speakers are not set to 'full band' then there's no Double Bass option.

I tried the Double Bass setting on all my RDC-7.1's and didn't like it. As I said before my main complaint against the RDC-7 was its bass management, more precisely the double bass problem. I did complain about it a lot and IR changed it in the RDC-7.1. The bass management in the RDC-7.1 is exactly the way it should be.

For my system I use the following crossover settings:

Front: 60
Center: 60
Surr: 80
Surr Back: 80
LFE: 60

I tried a lot of other dfifferent crossover settings but the ones above sounded the best to me.

R

Originally posted by Krobar
I dont believe the RDC does convert DSD to PCM, it appears to deal with it natively (Although this is unconfirmed)

One of the reasons I think that the Audioholics did a very poor job when reviewing the RDC-7.1 was the fact that they failed to mention whether or not the RDC-7.1 handles DSD natively. It's implied in the review that the RDC-7.1 converts DSD to PCM but it's not clear. After CES 2004, when discussing the RDC-7.1's features, Audioholics wrote that the RDC-7.1 did handle DSD natively. Now, nothing, no mention of that.

In the past the Audioholics always mentioned what DAC's were used in the units they reviewed complete with the DAC's model numbers. Their telling us what DAC's were used in the RDC-7.1 would have helped clarify whether or not the RDC-7.1 handles DSD natively. Well, they didn't tell us what DAC's were used and when asked why the reasons given were totally ridiculous.

R

Originally posted by Krobar
Pepar,

Just ask to speak to Jose.

Thanks, Krobar. Jose has restored most of my faith in IR/O. What a pleasure to find someone who knows what's going on and is willing to lay it out, warts and all. Notice I said "most" of my faith; the rest of my faith will reappear with the announcement of the RDC-7 Firewire upgrade. :D

Originally posted by Razvanel
Yes, my unit has it. In the manual is called DBass but on the RDC-7.1 display it shows up as Double Bass. All my RDC-7.1's had the Double Bass option. That option is only available when the front speakers are set to 'full band'. If the main speakers are not set to 'full band' then there's no Double Bass option.

I tried the Double Bass setting on all my RDC-7.1's and didn't like it. As I said before my main complaint against the RDC-7 was its bass management, more precisely the double bass problem. I did complain about it a lot and IR changed it in the RDC-7.1. The bass management in the RDC-7.1 is exactly the way it should be.
R

I'm a bit confused on this double bass issue. If it's a flaw, why would there be a setting to turn it on and off?

Originally posted by pepar
Jose has restored most of my faith in IR/O. What a pleasure to find someone who knows what's going on and is willing to lay it out, warts and all.

So, will there be a firewire upgrade or not?

R

Originally posted by pepar
I'm a bit confused on this double bass issue. If it's a flaw, why would there be a setting to turn it on and off?

Because it seems that some people - Audioholics for example - prefer Double Bass.

R

Originally posted by Krobar
Why do you distrust Audioholics?

No comment!

R

Raz,

I think me being sent 1.06 was a genuine mistake and hopefully I will get 1.07 next week.

This might be a little off topic but there is a german review of the Onkyo reciever that shares software and parts with the IR here:
http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/onkyo_tx_nr5000e_1.shtml

The interesting thing is they test with Denon, Onkyo and Pioneer DVD players over I-link. I havent bothered to Babelfish it but some might want to take a look at the pictures.

Raz;

You are more than entitled to your opinion and false allegations about us, but the manner in which you deliver is most disturbing. I am not sure why you have a personal vendetta against us, but this seemed to have started back when we wrote our original review of the RDC7 b/c , as you claimed, "we didn't get to the bottom as to why Integra Research wasn't offering constant updates to the product of the time". I then remember you saying you would never own one of their products again and decided to move on to the Anthem D1. To my surprise you are now on your, what 3rd RDC-7.1? It seems you went back on your word, or you changed your mind (its your God given choice) and felt Integra Research offered a fair product that met your needs.

For you to sit here and say we didn't offer a complete review b/c we didn't list the DAC# is at best laughable.

Regarding DSD to PCM Conversion:
If you bothered to read my 10 page review (which was actually 24 pages in word) you would see I did discuss that when using I.link the RDC7.1 does convert to PCM to handle bass management and digital delay.


from page6:
Listening to SACD via i.LINK was a luxury missed since my review of the Yamaha RX-Z9. For those worrying about the RDC-7.1 passing subwoofer information in two-channel mode - fear not as it does handle bass management via its i.LINK interface much like it does when decoding DD/DTS. While some would argue converting DSD to PCM to enable this may result in sonic degradation, I would counter with "But can you really hear a difference?" If implemented properly, there shouldn't be any ill effects, and in my opinion, the benefits of having bass management and digital delay compensation in this case far outweigh such concerns.

I have tested several products that do this (IE. Denon AVR-5803 and Yamaha RX-Z9) and never heard any ill effects, so if properly executed, it shouldn't be a show stopper and is a necessary evil since most bass management systems only work in PCM format.

As for D.Bass:
Your preference is Irrelevant to the facts at hand. Using my $35K Audio Analyzer from Audio Precision I verified that "LFE Only" setting will not recombine bass from satellite speakers to the subwoofer on the unit I tested which had Firmware version 1.3. You also wont have the ability of sub out in 2CH mode if you use the "LFE Only" setting (a feature many find invaluable when running all speakers thru bass management).

Someone on our forums was nice enough to point out that Firmware Version 1.6 and above has infact resolved this issue.

Feel about us as you wish, but don't discredit factual information with subjective opinions as it will only disservice readers and potential owners.

I will not continue debating with you here as I don't want to hijack this thread like you attempted to do over at Audioholics.

David Bott is very generous by letting us post our reviews on his site. I hope readers here find them helpful and we do our best to be as complete as possible. Sure we don't always cover every aspect of the product, but given the short time we typically have with them, we attempt to cover the most important features. We feel generating a parts list has little meaning to most readers.

Originally posted by Krobar

I think me being sent 1.06 was a genuine mistake and hopefully I will get 1.07 next week.


Great, will you e-mail it to me once you get it? What kind of cable you need to connect the RDC-7.1 to the computer?

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
So, will there be a firewire upgrade or not?

R

Yes, it is still planned. They - I/IR - wanted to release it to coincide with the RDC-7.1, but they - Japan R&D - ran into unforeseen software and firmware issues on the interface circuit board. I and IR are very concerned about their high-end customers and are pushing Japan to get this done. They have a target date, but don't want to announce it yet out of concern that more unforeseen issues will arise and affect their admittedly already well-tarnished image even further.

I re-read my reply and I know I sound like an IR PR hack, but I believe they are trying their best to overcome the challenge of squeaking out just one more RDC-7 upgrade, an upgrade that seemed like it would have been so easy to do just two years ago.

Raz,

I'll pass along 1.07 if I get it. You need a 9pin male to female serial cable (Straight Wired).

Pepar,

Its nice to hear some on topic good news. :)

Originally posted by Gene DellaSala
I then remember you saying you would never own one of their products again and decided to move on to the Anthem D1. To my surprise you are now on your, what 3rd RDC-7.1? It seems you went back on your word, or you changed your mind (its your God given choice) and felt Integra Research offered a fair product that met your needs.


My 4th RDC-7.1! I don't see why changing my mind about getting the RDC-7.1 is relevant to what we've been discussing here.

You could have easily ended all this mini-scandal by telling us the DAC's model numbers. I really don't understand why you haven't done so. It would be much easier to do that than waste your time by replying to my 'laughable' posts, wouldn't it?

R

Raz,

If you're so desperate to know then why dont you open up your own RDC-7.1 and have a look?

Originally posted by Razvanel


You could have easily ended all this mini-scandal by telling us the DAC's model numbers. I really don't understand why you haven't done so. It would be much easier to do that than waste your time by replying to my 'laughable' posts, wouldn't it?

R

A "mini-scandal" to you perhaps, but I don't see anyone else with their knickers in a twist over that "missing" detail. And I think he's already ended it in that he won't reply to you. With no one to engage, you will be the sound of one hand clapping.

Originally posted by Krobar


Pepar,

Its nice to hear some on topic good news. :)

Hey, it happens sometimes. :)

The RDC-7.1 has to convert DSD to PCM to do bass managment and time delay and overlay Doloby ProLogic IIx over DSD. They can't do it any other way.

It looks to me that they use the same D to A board on the processor that they use in the flagship DVD players. Since they wanted the native DSD option for the players, they used the Wolfson DAC that gave them this option, the WM8719. It would likely take a complete reworking of this board to change the DACs and surrounding circuits, since DACs are no fungible. Different DACs have different topologies, different pin-outs, etc. That is one of the reasons I doubt that IR has changed the DACs. They may have, but it would have represented a major expense.

If they are now converting all digital signals to PCM, it is unfortunate to me that they decided to use the WM8719 rather than a better-performing DAC, such as the WM8740 used by Arcam and others.

I hope you'll dont mind me asking ..

What exactly is the differences between the IR7.1 and the DTR-10.5 ? ( and for that matter the Onkyo TRNX1000)..Used as pre-pro's only
Im talking only about the processors/chips/etc.

And secondly, What are the chances that these will get the Auddysey EQ ? or any eq for that matter ?

The RDC-7.1 has Balanced Outputs, Apogee Clock & a better Power supply setup. The IR and Onkyo share software and add in cards but the hardware is different.

Originally posted by Krobar

If you're so desperate to know then why dont you open up your own RDC-7.1 and have a look?

1. I'm not desperate.

2. That's not the point.

3. If you insist: I'm afraid that I might scratch the unit and/or void the warranty. I never open up my stuff.

R

More than likely, if you're using i.Link and no BM in the processor, you get straight DSD to the DACS. (Pure direct mode or something.) It's when you engage BM that it has to convert to PCM.

Originally posted by pepar
A "mini-scandal" to you perhaps

That's why I called it a mini-scandal. Otherwise I would have called it a maxi-scandal. Or an XXXL-scandal. Or....

R

Originally posted by pepar
And I think he's already ended it in that he won't reply to you. With no one to engage, you will be the sound of one hand clapping.

So what? Even if he won't reply to it, he'll be reading it. Now, why don't the Audioholics want to tell us the DAC's model number? That's a fascinating question, don't you think?

R

Originally posted by Steve Goff
If they are now converting all digital signals to PCM, it is unfortunate to me that they decided to use the WM8719 rather than a better-performing DAC, such as the WM8740 used by Arcam and others.

Sure, you're right, that's one of the reasons why I want to know what DAC's are used in the RDC-7.1. I bet that potential buyers would also be interested in knowing. It would have taken the Audioholics ~ 3min and 41 sec to clarify the issue. But no, they don't want to do it. Why? Why?? Why??? One more time: Why????

R

Originally posted by Kevin C Brown
More than likely, if you're using i.Link and no BM in the processor, you get straight DSD to the DACS. (Pure direct mode or something.) It's when you engage BM that it has to convert to PCM.

You might be right. Audioholics, DAC's model number please!!!

R

Note: if I keep on going like this I'll have 2000 posts by tomorrow. Happiness!

R

Originally posted by pepar
Jose has restored most of my faith in IR/O.

I have to say this and then I'll go get ready for watching Deadwood: Jose??? No way!!!

R

Originally posted by Razvanel
Note: if I keep on going like this I'll have 2000 posts by tomorrow. Happiness!

R

Note: I got a lot of mine when we were arguing about IR about a year ago.

Originally posted by Razvanel
So what? Even if he won't reply to it, he'll be reading it. Now, why don't the Audioholics want to tell us the DAC's model number? That's a fascinating question, don't you think?

R

Methinks some are easily fascinated.

Does the IR7.1 have a notch filter ? (if so, how many bands).

Does it come with any component inputs or do you have to have an optional card installed?

Raz,

If you're so desperate to know then why dont you open up your own RDC-7.1 and have a look?

Clap clap clap clap! Finally a voice of reason, i.e. put up or shut up. "I'm afraid to use a screwdriver, I'd rather whine" is too lame an excuse to deserve any credibility whatsoever. ;)

Originally posted by catapult
Clap clap clap clap! Finally a voice of reason, i.e. put up or shut up. "I'm afraid to use a screwdriver, I'd rather whine" is too lame an excuse to deserve any credibility whatsoever. ;)

A-ha! You got me!! My credibility has lost its virginity!!!

R

C'mon Raz, inquiring minds want to know :D

You could be the one to break the news and upstage all the review sites :)

Originally posted by Enigma
C'mon Raz, inquiring minds want to know :D

You could be the one to break the news and upstage all the review sites :)

Enigma, it's an enigma why the Audioholics themselves are so enigmatic and haven't given us that info. I'd rather wait and have them get all the glory!

R

I don't know if anyone saw or mentioned this but, the IR website now has a link that will allow you to download the Net-Tune software. You need to have registerd your RDC-7.1 and enter your email address and unit SN.

Also, a question. The Audioholics review indicated a problem with i-Link SACD playback but, I didn't notice if they tried the MC-audio inputs module. Has anyone listened to the MC-audio inputs in direct mode? Are they better than i-Link and how would you rate the sound in general.

I ask because I have a 2-ch pre-amp w/HT bypass and would like to have a processor that will input MC-audio that will be very clean. My player does BM locally so all that required of the pre/pro is analog volume control.

Did you actually try and use the link? It would not recognize my SN.

Originally posted by Phil Rose
I don't know if anyone saw or mentioned this but, the IR website now has a link that will allow you to download the Net-Tune software. You need to have registerd your RDC-7.1 and enter your email address and unit SN.

Also, a question. The Audioholics review indicated a problem with i-Link SACD playback but, I didn't notice if they tried the MC-audio inputs module. Has anyone listened to the MC-audio inputs in direct mode? Are they better than i-Link and how would you rate the sound in general.

I ask because I have a 2-ch pre-amp w/HT bypass and would like to have a processor that will input MC-audio that will be very clean. My player does BM locally so all that required of the pre/pro is analog volume control.

Raz,

"BTW I just confirmed with Integra Research that the Wolfson DAC's used in this processor are the: # WM8719 for those who care.
__________________
pursuing the truth in audio..." Quote from Gene on the Audioholics forum.

Jared

Originally posted by gimp
Did you actually try and use the link? It would not recognize my SN. Sorry, I don't have an RDC-7.1 but, someday hope to if the IR support is there since the performance, features and modular design really strike a chord with me. The Net-Tunes item was a public service announcement. Also, I'm very interested in peoples experience with the MC-audio inputs.

Originally posted by Phil Rose
I ask because I have a 2-ch pre-amp w/HT bypass and would like to have a processor that will input MC-audio that will be very clean. My player does BM locally so all that required of the pre/pro is analog volume control.

I'm confused by your question. Maybe others are as well. How are you planning to use the "2-ch pre-amp w/HT bypass" in conjunction with a pre/pro? Would you connect the analog outputs of the 2-ch preamp to the multichannel inputs of the RDC-7.1? Would you connect the outputs of a universal player to the inputs of the RDC-7.1 and then connect the RDC-7.1's outputs to the HT bypass of the preamp? I haven't used those inputs so I can't offer any help. Maybe someone else could answer if they knew what you were asking.

Brian

Originally posted by Gaara
Raz,

"BTW I just confirmed with Integra Research that the Wolfson DAC's used in this processor are the: # WM8719 for those who care.

Jared,

Thank you.

R

Originally posted by Phil Rose
Has anyone listened to the MC-audio inputs in direct mode? Are they better than i-Link and how would you rate the sound in general.


I have the 7.1 multichannel module and the the best sound I get is when I use 'pure audio'. I haven't tried i-Link.

R

Originally posted by bkzoller:
Would you connect the outputs of a universal player to the inputs of the RDC-7.1 and then connect the RDC-7.1's outputs to the HT bypass of the preamp? Exactly! This was the 2-ch pre-amp is first in line for highest performance when listening to stereo only sources.

Originally posted by Razvanel:
I have the 7.1 multichannel module and the the best sound I get is when I use 'pure audio'. Thanks. This is what I would have anticipated. Is it safe to assume that the 7.1 multichannel module sounds the same as the basic 2-channel inputs in 'pure audio'?

Originally posted by Phil Rose
Is it safe to assume that the 7.1 multichannel module sounds the same as the basic 2-channel inputs in 'pure audio'?

Probably. The RDC-7.1 has both 'direct' and 'pure audio', 'pure audio' is better. I tried DPLIIx for SACD and DVD-A and didn't like it.

R

I like All Channel Stereo for some Stereo SACDs. For some music PL2Music and Studio-mix can work well too.

Had an interesting event yesterday with my RDC-7.1 (firmware version 1.06). Used it in the AM ok, but when I powered on from stand-by in the PM there was no sound. I checked a variety of things including unplugging which didn't help. I finally resorted to doing a microprocessor 'reset'. Voila! Sound restored! Of course I then had to repeat set-up but fortunately had recorded all of the settings. This is all quite interesting considering that the RDC-7.1 is plugged into a Monster Power Signature Series™ HTPS 7000 which in turn is plugged into a Monster Power Signature Series™ Automatic Voltage Stabilizer AVS 2000 which in turn is plugged into a dedicate 20-amp circuit.

Originally posted by gimp
This is all quite interesting considering that the RDC-7.1 is plugged into a Monster Power Signature Series� HTPS 7000 which in turn is plugged into a Monster Power Signature Series� Automatic Voltage Stabilizer AVS 2000 which in turn is plugged into a dedicate 20-amp circuit.
If it is a one-time occurrence, I wouldn't sweat it. If it repeats itself often, then you have a problem. After the first two weeks of owning the Lexicon MC-1, I needed to perform a reset to get it working properly again. During the remainder of the 9 months we owned the MC-1, I didn't have to perform another reset.

Michael

Im updating to 1.08 now. I'll let you guys know of any changes.

Ive also noticed the version numbers given by the program are most likely dates. The master firmware is dated 16/03/05 in this update.

Originally posted by Krobar
Im updating to 1.08 now. I'll let you guys know of any changes.

Ive also noticed the version numbers given by the program are most likely dates. The master firmware is dated 16/03/05 in this update.

Krobar,

Please check your PM.

R

Thoughts on 1.08:
Seems to have cured occasional I-Link skip with my Pioneer (Used to occur once or so in a whole movie so will need a little more time before I know for sure)
Can Now View I-Link version from LCD (But Not DSP ver)

Cool - I got 1.08 emailed to me too. I'll do the upgrade asap...

TM

Originally posted by Krobar
Thoughts on 1.08:
Seems to have cured occasional I-Link skip with my Pioneer (Used to occur once or so in a whole movie so will need a little more time before I know for sure)
Can Now View I-Link version from LCD (But Not DSP ver)

I've also installed 1.08. I don't think that 1.08 has anything to do with i-Link, the i-Link firmware is still 1.01.

R

Originally posted by anthonymoody
Cool - I got 1.08 emailed to me too. I'll do the upgrade asap...

TM

Anthony,

How do you like your RDC-7.1?

R

The I-Link firmware is the same but there was alot of I-Link configuration done after the upgrade (Not done after 1.06 upgrade). If the interruptions in I-Link audio proves to be entirely stopped then that stands for proof in itself that the I-Link firmware is not the entireity of the I-link implementation and that some bug fixes are present.

Raz,

So far very much - and I'm only on v1.03 currently. My wife and I had an insane marathon viewing weekend. All 11 hours of Band Of Brothers on Saturday, and all 11+ hours of LOTR extended editions on Sunday (do I have the best wife or what?!?). Projector is a JVC HX2 (William Phelps calibrated) firing on a 110" diag Studiotek130, fed by a Pioneer 59avi DVD player outputting 480p over HDMI, through the 7.1 (for HDMI switching with my cable STB), into the iScan HD+ for scaling to 1400x788, out to the projector.

I'm much more of a video guy than an audio guy so I got the video chain dialed in first. This coming weekend I'll focus on the audio. So far all I've done (besides naming inputs, getting all the triggers working the way I want, and setting default surround modes, etc) is a simple SPL meter test to get the 7 channel volumes set up. Any quick set up tips you guys have found that you would recommend (processing modes, whatever)?

But so far, so good. I would say that my 7.1 is more neutral than my 7, though I was not able to do a side by side comparison and the rooms are now different. More to come...

TM

PS - One thing that really does annoy me is the impact HDCP has on the user experience. The good news is that even when routing two HDCP compliant sources (DVD player and cable STB) through both the 7.1 and the iScan HD+, the handshake can be done successfully with the projector. The bad news is that sometimes when you interrupt the stream - like say to change channel - the devices try to re-handshake. It's a successful handshake in the end but can take a few seconds. Annoying when you want to surf. Fortunately I really don't do much of that. One time I did have to power off and on the scaler to get the handshake to work and I always need to have my sources on before the projector (it doesn't like the handshake when you turn a source on after the PJ is on)

Originally posted by Krobar
The I-Link firmware is the same but there was alot of I-Link configuration done after the upgrade (Not done after 1.06 upgrade). If the interruptions in I-Link audio proves to be entirely stopped then that stands for proof in itself that the I-Link firmware is not the entireity of the I-link implementation and that some bug fixes are present.

How about the noise when playing SACD, was that fixed too?

R

Originally posted by anthonymoody
Raz,

So far very much - and I'm only on v1.03 currently.

Please let me know if you notice any difference in sound between 1.03 and 1.08.

R

I dont seem to get much noise with SACD so I guess either Audioholics had a faulty unit or I just dont notice it.

The 1.03 to 1.06 upgrade did change the sound but upgrading from 1.06 to 1.08 didnt.

Originally posted by Krobar
The 1.03 to 1.06 upgrade did change the sound but upgrading from 1.06 to 1.08 didnt.

Same here.

R

I'm still on 1.06 and connected my new Denon 3910 today via i.LINK. There is NO SACD noise.

I am going to order mine this week if I ever get the chance.

That's my combo (or will be) so I am glad to hear there is no noise via I-Link.

Thanks Raz for tip.

Can any of you recommend a 200 watt seven channel amp for less than $2,500.00? The lower the better obviously.

I was looking at the ATI 2007, Sherbourn and Gemstone. It appears that the Gemstone is now out of my price range.

Thanks

ArtV

Originally posted by ArtV


Can any of you recommend a 200 watt seven channel amp for less than $2,500.00? The lower the better obviously.

I was looking at the ATI 2007, Sherbourn and Gemstone. It appears that the Gemstone is now out of my price range.

Thanks

ArtV

FWIW, I have an ATI 2007 and I love it. M&K S-150s/SS-150s in a 7.1 config with dual Hsu TN1220's for the .1.

Technically, you have a 7.2 system.

I would really like an amp that is dead quiet when nothing is playing. Hiss drives me crazy. How is the 2007 in that regard?

ArtV

Originally posted by ArtV
Technically, you have a 7.2 system.

I would really like an amp that is dead quiet when nothing is playing. Hiss drives me crazy. How is the 2007 in that regard?

ArtV

Technically (and actually), I have a 7.1 system as the subs are fed one signal. To further the "one-ness" of it, they are within 1/2 dia of each other, so they couple and act as one sub.

Movies and music emerge from TOTAL silence. Using balanced lines may have something to do with that.

I was just kidding about the .2....

I guess people around here take their theater VERY seriously.

Do you think it leans to bright, warm or neutral?

I have to buy it sight unseen as there are no dealers in my area. Any help you give is greatly appreciated.

ArtV

Originally posted by ArtV
I was just kidding about the .2....

I guess people around here take their theater VERY seriously.

Do you think it leans to bright, warm or neutral?

I have to buy it sight unseen as there are no dealers in my area. Any help you give is greatly appreciated.

ArtV

:D

Well, I don't think it's bright. However, I've never swapped other system components and done comparisons.

Originally posted by pepar
:D

Well, I don't think it's bright. However, I've never swapped other system components and done comparisons.

Just so there's no confusion, you are referring to the RDC-7 and not the RDC-7.1. ArtV may not know that since he just got here. ;)

Brian

Originally posted by bkzoller
Just so there's no confusion, you are referring to the RDC-7 and not the RDC-7.1. ArtV may not know that since he just got here. ;)

Brian

Actually, Brian, he's referring to my off-topic ATI 2007 amp. At least, I thought he was.

Originally posted by pepar
Actually, Brian, he's referring to my off-topic ATI 2007 amp. At least, I thought he was.

Yes, you're probably right. I went back and read the earlier posts, and the context was the ATI.

I did some testing with my Powermaster and balanced interconnects had a noticeably lower noise floor. So try to go balanced Art.

Thanks for the help.

We are all off-topic by not talking about the upgrade/trade in announcement.

Originally posted by ArtV
Thanks for the help.

We are all off-topic by not talking about the upgrade/trade in announcement.

We are NOT off topic! You just brought us back. . . . upgrade . . . trade-in.

Art,

My RDC-7.1 is connected to a Lexicon LX-7 via balanced interconnects. Even with my ear up against my Definitive Technology BP2000 towers, I cannot hear any noise whatsoever. I'm using Kimber Hero cables which are kind of expensive. My Velodyne DD-15 sub is also connected via balanced using a BlueJeansCable. I'd highly recommend BlueJeansCable as an excellent value.

You might want to reconsider the Gemstone since it is so close to your price range. You might also want to consider buying a used amp on someplace like Audiogon. I bought my LX-7 used on Audiogon and don't have any regrets. Quality used amps are excellent values since amps have very long usable lives and aren't really subject to technical obsolescence.

Originally posted by ArtV
Technically, you have a 7.2 system.

I would really like an amp that is dead quiet when nothing is playing. Hiss drives me crazy. How is the 2007 in that regard?

ArtV

Can anyone point me to a Pronto ccf for the remote? I can't find anything on remote central. What other Onkyo/I/IR products use the same remote? Thanks!

Onkyo TX-NR1000, TX-NR5000E & Integra DTR-10.5 all use the same remote.

Well after another week of watching/listening I've decided that I'm very happy with the 7.1's sound. I would still describe it as neutral and more open in the midrange than the 7. Still haven't decided which surround mode I prefer for watching films (which do you guys prefer?) but after having adjusted speaker levels, etc. I'm really happy with the sound.

My next step is to upgrade the firmware. Now that I'm used to the sound I feel I'll be able to comment on the comparison of 1.03 and 1.08.

TM

Are there discrete IR codes available for the inputs?

Originally posted by gimp
Are there discrete IR codes available for the inputs?

The Home Theater Master MX-850 remote has discrete input codes for the Integra DTR-9.4 in its database. Those codes are able to control the RDC-7.1. I presume the same codes are available for the previous remote models MX-700 and MX-800.

Brian

Originally posted by bkzoller
The Home Theater Master MX-850 remote has discrete input codes for the Integra DTR-9.4 in its database. Those codes are able to control the RDC-7.1. I presume the same codes are available for the previous remote models MX-700 and MX-800.

I believe gimp was asking about the Pronto, Brian.

Originally posted by pepar
I believe gimp was asking about the Pronto, Brian.

Well, you don't have to have the HTM remote to download the software and run it. There is a feature called the Universal Editor which can be used to enter Pronto codes. I remember reading something about that on Remote Central. Maybe that feature could be used to display equivalent Pronto codes from the HTM database.

Brian

Originally posted by bkzoller
Well, you don't have to have the HTM remote to download the software and run it. There is a feature called the Universal Editor which can be used to enter Pronto codes. I remember reading something about that on Remote Central. Maybe that feature could be used to display equivalent Pronto codes from the HTM database.

Brian

That sure would be handy. Is the UE a third-party app?

Originally posted by pepar
That sure would be handy. Is the UE a third-party app?

It turns out the correct name is Universal Browser, and it is just a separate window in the MX Editor software. I found a description of how to import codes from a Pronto CCF into MX Editor. The software probably can't export a CCF, but it seems likely that the hex codes could be displayed and then manually entered into the Pronto software.

http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/mboard/rc-master/thread.cgi?keywords=5965&highlight=Universal|Browser

Of course, the first thing for gimp to try is the preprogrammed codes for the Integra DTR-9.4 using the Pronto database. That might be easier if those codes are already available.

Brian

More on the RDC-7.1 and RDA-7.1 sound ( from www.avbuzz.com ):

"Anyway, after a brief run-in and setup adjustments, the IRs sound much better than when they were new out of the box. To compare to my old (really old literally) system (Mission CD player / Sound Research Tube pre / Bryston power), the IRs with the Marantz DV9500 as source (BTW, it sounds better than my 15 years old Mission cdp anyway) sound a lot smoother and richer. The old Bryston has a leaner and relatively aggressive top (some people called it "cleaner"). The IR is a more laid back system. Due to the room acoustic (hard reflective floor and a big glass patio door on one side), the richer sound of the IR (read stronger mid-bass) can be a bit "too rich" at times. I am trying to figure out a way to lessen the effect. The IRs also have a lot more details but the details don't jump at you due to their more relaxed presentation."

R

Started to experience the following problems with my RDC-7.1 which were fixed by reseting:

1) Actual sound level changes lagged volume control changes a few seconds.
2) When switching inputs or TV channels, it started taking a few seconds before sound appeared from center channel (other audio channel levels ok).
3) When switching "late-nite" mode the volume increased abnormally.

This is the second time I've had to reset due to it entering a weird state (last time the sound stopped altogether). This is getting more and more interesting considering it is plugged into two levels of high-quality power conditioning.

BTW how do you reset it?

TM

Hold Standby and Video1 together

Turn it on, press and hold the "Video 1" button on the front panel, press "Standby". It will display "Clear" on the display and then turn off. Note that you lose all of your settings.

Originally posted by anthonymoody
BTW how do you reset it?

TM

Gotcha thanks.

Slightly OT: the HDCP handshake b/t my PJ and cable box has gotten worse and worse over time. It's a SA8300HD PVR box. Really unstable. Sometimes when turning it on, sometimes when changing channels, it would 'decide' after several seconds of jumping around, that the PJ wasn't HDCP compliant (which it of course is).

Anyway, I pulled a set of component cables b/t the STB and the 7.1 and am using the HDMI conversion feature for now. I lose the all digital video path but now I can actually change channels :) The industry really needs to figure this out. My DVD player (which also outputs an HDCP protected signal) handshakes successfully 100% of the time and relatively quickly at that.

Anyway, I'm really happy for the HDMI conversion feature.

TM

There have been units in the UK & Europe that can sucessfullly remove HDCP from the HDMI signal. There has been demand due to handshake issues and CRT PJ users in paticular. The legal aspect of them is still unknown and although Ive seen a working unit I know the retailer was not yet ready to sell them.

Well, it's doing it again. Can someone please PM contact info for that good IR customer support guy (Jose?). Looks like I need to call IR.

Originally posted by gimp
Started to experience the following problems with my RDC-7.1 which were fixed by reseting:

1) Actual sound level changes lagged volume control changes a few seconds.
2) When switching inputs or TV channels, it started taking a few seconds before sound appeared from center channel (other audio channel levels ok).
3) When switching "late-nite" mode the volume increased abnormally.

This is the second time I've had to reset due to it entering a weird state (last time the sound stopped altogether). This is getting more and more interesting considering it is plugged into two levels of high-quality power conditioning.

Originally posted by Krobar
There have been units in the UK & Europe that can sucessfullly remove HDCP from the HDMI signal. There has been demand due to handshake issues and CRT PJ users in paticular. The legal aspect of them is still unknown and although Ive seen a working unit I know the retailer was not yet ready to sell them.

Do you mean that the HDMI switching card can remove HDCP? Or they make a special one for Europe?

Its a box that sits in the signal path and strips HDCP.

Yeah there was one for sale that was promoted around here. It was actually a DVI switch that did this "unintentionally" - I think they've now sold out and aren't being made anymore. In any case, yeah it can definitely be done. The frustrating thing is that my DVD player handshakes successfully 100% of the time.

Krobar, any chance of prying one out of someone's hand?

Thanks,
TM

Not Likely.

The plans and methods to make devices like that are known but the legal side scares most. The particular one I saw was more specific, it would "Steal" a key from another device and then simply strip the HDCP.

Originally posted by gimp
Well, it's doing it again. Can someone please PM contact info for that good IR customer support guy (Jose?). Looks like I need to call IR.

Your unit is defective, contact your dealer and ask for a replacement.

R

Gotcha Krobar, thanks..

TM

Ooo, Ooo,

I just noticed that V1.08 software is on the Integra Research website for download!! Maybe IR is listening to their users? Lets hope so.

Originally posted by Phil Rose
Ooo, Ooo,

I just noticed that V1.08 software is on the Integra Research website for download!! Maybe IR is listening to their users? Lets hope so.

Happiness!!!

R

Yeah I was just about to post the same thing. This is GREAT news and quite a relief. People were pretty good about emailing the file around but this solution is obviously better. Anyway I finally got around to upgrading (from 1.03 to 1.08). Took about 40 minutes but seemed to go off without a hitch. Haven't done any critical listening since then to listen for changes but I'll try to soon.

I wonder how long it'll be before these devices use a USB or ethernet connection to remain constantly connected so they can auto download and install software updates ala modern day computer OS'?

TM

PS - IR, thank you for listening to us (?) and making the software user downloadable!!! :)

Originally posted by anthonymoody
I wonder how long it'll be before these devices use a USB or ethernet connection to remain constantly connected so they can auto download and install software updates ala modern day computer OS'?

The optimist geek in me is supremely jazzed by this idea, but the realistic cynic in me fears that, just like modern computers, this will lead to a patch-du-jour situation and, horrors, hacking and malware.

Its not a live service and the installed user base is too small to bother targeting. I dont think hacking or malware will be a problem.

Originally posted by Krobar
Its not a live service and the installed user base is too small to bother targeting. I dont think hacking or malware will be a problem.

Not worried about disenfranchised and/or fundamentalist Anthem owners, eh?

:)

:D

TM

I just received my RDC 7.1. I haven't had a chance to hook it up yet and listen to it but if weight is any factor of it's quality, this thing is spectacular!

ArtV

Originally posted by pepar
Not worried about disenfranchised and/or fundamentalist Anthem owners, eh?

:)

Being a fundamentalist Anthem owner, i think we'd like to be able to take credit for an attack on 7.1s.

Unfortunately, IR is doing such a good job causing pain for its 7.1 owners early on, i doubt our malicious efforts could be differentiated from the actual production firmware.

:D :)

John