I have now been waiting over a month for IR to fix my unit from being unable to lock on to center channel signals for Dolby Digital or Dolby pro logic II. I was informed a few weeks ago that they were no longer willing to try to fix the HDMI module, and would refund the money for that particular card. I have now been told that IR has decided to not fix or replace my unit, and will instead refund my money for the processor. I'm simply amazed. I'm not really sure what's going on. Is there a systemwide problem with these units, and have they made a choice not to fix or sell them anymore? I know my dealer will not be selling these units anymore for the time being (I can't blame them).

I'm not sure how to react to this. Part of me is grateful to finally be done with this product, and all the problems that I have endured with it. On the other hand, I am surprisingly fond of this flawed processor, and will be sorry to have to see it go. I loved the way it sounds (when it actually works), and was hoping to have all the issues resolved. However, it's really been quite a never-ending nightmare. I guess I should consider myself lucky to get my money back and start from scratch.

So now I am back to ground zero. I can't seem to come up with any other processors that have both HDMI and 1394. I can't seem to get clear if any units are about to be released. I've come across one brief mention of the new Arcam AV9, but what it has in terms of features, and when it will actually be released is another matter. Of course I could always go back to waiting for the new Anthem D2, but I already wasted 10 months of my life playing that game before. Also, no 1394. This sucks!

Evan

I am sorry to hear about the trouble you have been having. At least you are getting your money back. I almost feel guilty that I have had no problems with mine...

The real problem is that there aren't any units with the RDC 7.1's features. The D2 won't get firewire so to me it's like having a D1 with an outboard processor/switcher. It is my understanding that the D2 will have only HDMI 1.1. As a result, it won't be much different than using a 7.1 analog input. Well, I guess it is a bit different, the D1/AVM30/AVM20 doesn't have a 7.1 analog input.

I guess you could roll the dice and try another through a different dealer...

By the way, who sold you your newly refunded unit?

ArtV

I'm sorry to hear about that Evan. I don't understand what is going on with IR that they would give you a refund rather than replacing your unit. They usually announce new products at the January CES, so I guess we have to wait until then for any news out of them. I also don't have a good answer on what could replace it with all of the features that you need. Have you considered using one of the new Pioneer Elite receivers as a pre/pro with your amp? Denon AVR-xx06 as a pre/pro?

Brian

Art, You right about the new Anthem D2, it will already be outdated and behind the times when it is finally released. Older DSP's, No i-Link, and a soon to be legacy version of HDMI. Most unfortunate. They haven't actually refunded my money yet, they are waiting for Onkyo to first cut them a check. I wouldn't dream of using another dealer, these guys are simply the best. In fact, with out their aggressive stance advocating on my behalf, I would be totally at the mercy of the infamous Onkyo/IR customer service. I am most grateful to Raz for the referral.

I have considered using a receiver as a temporary solution. However, I would have to lose the use of my balanced connections. I also have to pay for the amplifier section as well. However, it does seem the only option at this point if I want to have HDMI switching and I-Link.

Evan

I almost feel guilty that I have had no problems with mine...
The real problem is that there aren't any units with the RDC 7.1's features.


No problems with mine either except the highly intermittent Ch Sel/input switching bug that will hopefully be fixed with the new software upgrade.

I agree about the RDC-7.1's features. Not to mention how good the unit sounds, a working RDC-7.1 is an outstanding processor both feature and sound wise.

R

I don't understand what is going on with IR that they would give you a refund rather than replacing your unit.


I don't know if this has anything to do with it but Onkyo USA has a new president, maybe with the new boss also came new rules: http://www.gspr.com/onkyo/ken_araki.html

R

Evan,

I am distressed to hear that Raz's dealer isn't selling them anymore.......he is my dealer as well. I bet half of us bought the unit from him. Although I doubt this makes you feel any better, my AVM20 smoked and fried about a month after I bought it. It took Anthem about 4 months to fix it.....I was not happy.

Get a mid level receiver and wait for HDMI and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD to settle down. AVR 3806, RX-V4600 or VSX-74TXVi. Just do me a favor, keep quiet if you like it better than the RDC 7.1. I have too much money invested in this thing.


ArtV

Although I doubt this makes you feel any better, my AVM20 smoked and fried about a month after I bought it. It took Anthem about 4 months to fix it.....I was not happy.


I too had a bad experience with Anthem products. My first D1 had a zillion problems, Anthem replaced it but since I didn't like the Anthem sound much I sold it only to find out a few months later that that unit too smoked and fried.

R

I have now been waiting over a month for IR to fix my unit from being unable to lock on to center channel signals for Dolby Digital or Dolby pro logic II. I was informed a few weeks ago that they were no longer willing to try to fix the HDMI module, and would refund the money for that particular card. I have now been told that IR has decided to not fix or replace my unit, and will instead refund my money for the processor. I'm simply amazed. I'm not really sure what's going on. Is there a systemwide problem with these units, and have they made a choice not to fix or sell them anymore? I know my dealer will not be selling these units anymore for the time being (I can't blame them).

I'm not sure how to react to this. Part of me is grateful to finally be done with this product, and all the problems that I have endured with it. On the other hand, I am surprisingly fond of this flawed processor, and will be sorry to have to see it go. I loved the way it sounds (when it actually works), and was hoping to have all the issues resolved. However, it's really been quite a never-ending nightmare. I guess I should consider myself lucky to get my money back and start from scratch.

So now I am back to ground zero. I can't seem to come up with any other processors that have both HDMI and 1394. I can't seem to get clear if any units are about to be released. I've come across one brief mention of the new Arcam AV9, but what it has in terms of features, and when it will actually be released is another matter. Of course I could always go back to waiting for the new Anthem D2, but I already wasted 10 months of my life playing that game before. Also, no 1394. This sucks!

Evan
I don't know whether or not this is at the root of IR's declining to fix your HDMI module or not, but there is another version of HDMI about to be released. On top of that, the present version is giving a LOT of people fits, especially on the STB forums. It is clearly Not Quite Ready For Prime Time and no one is happy with it.

Yes, the specifications for HDMI 1.2 were announced back in August. I have yet to hear about any products for sale which implement the spec. Those should start arriving early next year probably. The IR module implements HDMI 1.0, although not the full audio spec.

Brian

I'm sorry to hear about that Evan. I don't understand what is going on with IR that they would give you a refund rather than replacing your unit. They usually announce new products at the January CES, so I guess we have to wait until then for any news out of them. I also don't have a good answer on what could replace it with all of the features that you need. Have you considered using one of the new Pioneer Elite receivers as a pre/pro with your amp? Denon AVR-xx06 as a pre/pro?

Brian
Refunding the module price indicates one thing, but what can be inferred from refunding the ENTIRE purchase price? A new unit to replace the - sorry Raz :) - "future-proof" RDC-7.1? Puzzling . . .

Evan,

I am distressed to hear that Raz's dealer isn't selling them anymore.......he is my dealer as well. I bet half of us bought the unit from him. Although I doubt this makes you feel any better, my AVM20 smoked and fried about a month after I bought it. It took Anthem about 4 months to fix it.....I was not happy.

Get a mid level receiver and wait for HDMI and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD to settle down. AVR 3806, RX-V4600 or VSX-74TXVi. Just do me a favor, keep quiet if you like it better than the RDC 7.1. I have too much money invested in this thing.


ArtV

Four months to fix your fried processor! Thats simply unbelievable. So much for Anthems reputation for world-class service. You must have been infuriated. I'm not sure if our dealer is permanently going to stop selling these processors. I get the feeling their just holding off until they figure out what's going on. I believe they have also been somewhat frustrated and disappointed with the manner in which the company has been addressing all these issues that so many of us are having.I will be interested to see what the final outcome is.

HDMI appears to be worse than plug and play. I guess it's another example of plug and pray. I was hoping that the next version of the HDMI module would be the solution to my problems. I guess I will never get to find out now. What a frustrating time of fast-moving change we are in with this hobby. I don't enjoy being on the bleeding edge. I just want the latest features to work without any problems. Doesn't seem like to much to ask, especially at these prices that we are paying.

Evan

Four months to fix your fried processor! Thats simply unbelievable. So much for Anthems reputation for world-class service. You must have been infuriated. I'm not sure if our dealer is permanently going to stop selling these processors. I get the feeling their just holding off until they figure out what's going on. I believe they have also been somewhat frustrated and disappointed with the manner in which the company has been addressing all these issues that so many of us are having.I will be interested to see what the final outcome is.

HDMI appears to be worse than plug and play. I guess it's another example of plug and pray. I was hoping that the next version of the HDMI module would be the solution to my problems. I guess I will never get to find out now. What a frustrating time of fast-moving change we are in with this hobby. I don't enjoy being on the bleeding edge. I just want the latest features to work without any problems. Doesn't seem like to much to ask, especially at these prices that we are paying.

Evan
You could defer refund on the entire unit until it is clear what's up with it. Maybe the new HDMI module would fix it. It just makes no sense why they'd throw up their hands and reverse the entire sale . . .

You could defer refund on the entire unit until it is clear what's up with it. Maybe the new HDMI module would fix it. It just makes no sense why they'd throw up their hands and reverse the entire sale . . .

Unfortunately, the issue with the HDMI card is not the only issue I am having with this unit (my second). The center channel levels are at first totally muted when switching sources. Then, without any warning it kicks in (anywhere from one to five minutes) and is eventually going to damage my center channel speaker (my girlfriend understandably keeps turning up the volume louder in an effort to hear the dialogue.). My first unit did not have any issues (other than the HDMI), so I would gladly have just kept the unit and waited until the new HDMI module was released. That is no longer an option. Bummer.

I agree that it makes no sense to refund my entire purchase. I'm not sure if they are aware that there are very real issues with either the design or quality control (I'm not the only one who has experienced this issue with the center channel), and perhaps have made a decision to cease and desist until they can figure it out. Or maybe they have concluded that I'm somehow at fault and so they just want to be done with me as a customer. I honestly don't know what's going on.

Evan

I'm not sure if our dealer is permanently going to stop selling these processors. I get the feeling their just holding off until they figure out what's going on. I believe they have also been somewhat frustrated and disappointed with the manner in which the company has been addressing all these issues that so many of us are having.I will be interested to see what the final outcome is.

I just talked to the dealer, they are still selling the RDC-7.1 and doing their very best to help anyone who has problems with the unit.

R

Unfortunately, the issue with the HDMI card is not the only issue I am having with this unit (my second). The center channel levels are at first totally muted when switching sources. Then, without any warning it kicks in (anywhere from one to five minutes) and is eventually going to damage my center channel speaker (my girlfriend understandably keeps turning up the volume louder in an effort to hear the dialogue.). My first unit did not have any issues (other than the HDMI), so I would gladly have just kept the unit and waited until the new HDMI module was released. That is no longer an option. Bummer.

I agree that it makes no sense to refund my entire purchase. I'm not sure if they are aware that there are very real issues with either the design or quality control (I'm not the only one who has experienced this issue with the center channel), and perhaps have made a decision to cease and desist until they can figure it out. Or maybe they have concluded that I'm somehow at fault and so they just want to be done with me as a customer. I honestly don't know what's going on.

Evan
The absolute best that could be read into this is that they are embarrassed by their performance and inability to fix the problem and see full refund as a way of satisfying you. Or at least mollifying you. The worst that could be inferred is . . wide open for speculation. :(

Funny, they told me Monday that they had decided to stop selling the units for the time being. Maybe we spoke to one of the two different brothers who own the store. Or maybe they're just not sure what they're supposed to do next. I have no doubt that either way, they will continue to provide their superb customer service to current owners who purchased the units from them.

Evan

Funny, they told me Monday that they had decided to stop selling the units for the time being. Maybe we spoke to one of the two different brothers who own the store. Or maybe they're just not sure what they're supposed to do next. I have no doubt that either way, they will continue to provide their superb customer service to current owners who purchased the units from them.

Evan
I was referring to IR; your dealer sounds excellent.

I was referring to IR; your dealer sounds excellent.

Sorry to be confusing, I was actually responding to what Raz posted about our dealer. I knew what you meant about the company itself, and you make some good points. Perhaps they are just trying to do the right thing by me, by refunding my purchase.

Evan, I was going to suggest that since you said the dealer was no longer taking delivery of new RDC-7.1s and since the dealer was resolving the issue on your behalf, that perhaps a refund was the only option open to them. Now with Raz's response about the dealer, that basically destroys my theory. Would anyone else care to venture their guesses? :D :p

Brian

Sorry to be confusing, I was actually responding to what Raz posted about our dealer. I knew what you meant about the company itself, and you make some good points. Perhaps they are just trying to do the right thing by me, by refunding my purchase.
Gosh, I hope that's the case. It would be tragic - on a lot of levels - if they're throwing in the towel on the RDC-7.1 in general.

Interesting info from my/our dealer: "the actual RDC-7.1 failure rate is currently at 2.1% about normal for high end products coming from a Japanese manufacturer."

They are still selling the RDC-7.1 - "our relationship with IR remains intact and in good health."

Evan, contact Jason and he'll take care of your problem.

R

Pepar, please, do not say that......ever...........I believe that we all bought this unit with the hope that it will have a long life span. If it ends after one year..............

My guess is that there are a lot more owners of the Onkyo and Integra card based receivers. Seeing as how they should be similar, it would be difficult to 'throw in the towel'. Now if it was just us IR owners..................

Interesting info from my/our dealer: "the actual RDC-7.1 failure rate is currently at 2.1% about normal for high end products coming from a Japanese manufacturer."

They are still selling the RDC-7.1 - "our relationship with IR remains intact and in good health."

Evan, contact Jason and he'll take care of your problem.

R

.....and this comes from a high volume IR dealer (perhaps the largest). A failure/ glitch rate of 2.1% overall seems very acceptable. According to Jason it doesn't sound like he's had direct input in resolving Evan's IR-grief.......so that was probably the deal. Yeah Jason'll fix it right up...sounds like a standup guy.

Pepar, please, do not say that......ever...........I believe that we all bought this unit with the hope that it will have a long life span. If it ends after one year..............

My guess is that there are a lot more owners of the Onkyo and Integra card based receivers. Seeing as how they should be similar, it would be difficult to 'throw in the towel'. Now if it was just us IR owners..................

.....nothings going to end after one-year. One or two guys have issues on the board and suddenly
the 'chassis is bug-ridden and pending abandonment'. I'll admit sometimes when you read an owners thread it gets the 'gears-turning'.......but the problems are always overemphasized (not to downplay the issues some have been having, it has to be frustrating) in relation to the good. Like i 've said before, the vast majority of them must be working......other wise the bean counters would have shut the IR division down. Jason Lord's estimation of true failure rates bolsters all this.

Andy.

.....nothings going to end after one-year.

Exactly, no need to worry about the RDC-7.1 not being supported anymore.

I tried processors from other manufacturers - Anthem, Parasound, and others - and I always came back to IR. Their customer service isn't very good but if you have a good dealer to take care of you you'll be fine.

R

OK, I might have chosen my words and phrases more carefully, and I certainly hope everything is well with the company and their flagship pre/pro. But no one has been able to offer up a reason why they would give a complete refund instead of a replacement. If it is, and remains, a current model, what's up with that?

I'll shut up on this now . . .

I think we need to wait a little and find out the final resolution of Evan's refund or replacement scenario. It could just be a miscommunication between Onkyo/IR and the dealer about how they are going to handle it.

Brian

OK, I might have chosen my words and phrases more carefully, and I certainly hope everything is well with the company and their flagship pre/pro. But no one has been able to offer up a reason why they would give a complete refund instead of a replacement. If it is, and remains, a current model, what's up with that?

I'll shut up on this now . . .


....well i think the reason was given to you already in so many words. So w/o airing others laundry out...i think this is a 'one-off' scenario between the customer, the particular person at the dealer he liased with and the particular person at IR tech support that he in turn dealt with. Sometimes things may or may not go smoothly between the last two people in the chain. This is not a reflection on things in general at said dealer nor at IR nor the status of RDC-7.1.

It also doesn't mean you've stumbled on some sort of conspiracy where IR engineers and accountants are piling up rdc7.1's by the front-end-loader bucket full to be burned whilst
they covertly laugh maniacly over blueprints for the rdc-8.0 . ;)

:cool:

RDC 8.0 MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!! (Evil Laugh)

RDC 8.0 MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!! (Evil Laugh)

LOL!

I just got home from work and read all the posts. I'm sorry if I inadvertently started a scare concerning what the company may or may not be doing. I was only reporting what was told to me by my dealer (about only my unit). I'm glad to hear that they (the dealer) are continuing to sell these units, and that the incidence of failure is apparently quite low. He was quite clear however, that IR refused to fix or replace my unit again, and that they had decided to just give me a refund instead. He also stated some frustration with trying to get them to fully address my issues (perhaps this is why he mentioned at the time that they were that they were temporarily putting a hold on selling anymore). However, I do believe they probably have the best relationship with IR of any dealer in the country. They are unquestionably the safest place to purchase an IR product from, and they don't take no for an answer!

Evan

Evan, if you do get a refund check for your processor, are you going to give it back to Jason for your third RDC-7.1? :D :eek: Are you still weighing the options?

Brian

Evan, if you do get a refund check for your processor, are you going to give it back to Jason for your third RDC-7.1? :D :eek: Are you still weighing the options?
Raz' experience sort of indicates that the RDC-7.1 is "the good" to everyone else's "the bad and the ugly." But, even the good can be pretty bad sometimes. Evanfew's experience, though, is just plain ugly . . .

After a ten-year absence of participation in my favorite hobby (graduate school and the new small-business had to be my priorities), I decided it was time to do a major overhaul of my home entertainment system. So, about a year in half ago I invested an extraordinary amount of time in research and cash to achieve this most noble goal. Looking back now, I am flabbergasted by what has happened.

My satellite receiver continually requires a reset, my 56" DLP has now broken twice (color wheel and the power supply), my external DVI Geffen switcher continues to jump infrared signals every time I use my remote control, the video card in my computer requires a reboot to reacquire with the DVI switcher, the hard drive died and I lost only important information, the five acoustic sound panels I ordered from my room were ludicrously damaged and had to be sent back, the 5.1 (Paradigm Signature) speaker system delivered with the center channel speaker both damaged and not matching the other speakers in finish, so after six long months (and many phone calls and e-mails), they never delivered the new one, so I had to return them and order new speakers, my Onkyo SP 1000 DVD player has major problems with lip-synch, I postponed the most important purchase of a Pre/Pro for ten months while I eagerly awaited (like a trained to seal) for the continually promised upgrades from Anthem, and after finally giving up and buying a new processor from IR, well you all know how this story ends.

Every single piece of equipment I have purchased has had major issues. The amount of time and energy I have expended trying to diagnose, address, and resolve (oh, how I love tech support) all these issues is simply incomprehensible. My girlfriend continues to watch in stunned amazement wondering why I continue with this insanity.

However, when the humidity and temperature are just right, the moon is full, and the stars are in alignment, my equipment all occasionally works as designed in a synchronous manner. These rare, but wonderful moments bring me the greatest joy in my middle-aged life. Sad but true. I still adore this hobby and the goosebumps it brings. But all my goodness, this has been one high maintenance love affair. My condolences to all my forum members who have had similar stories and tenaciously continue forward in this most noble of pursuits. I consider us all brave and loyal warriors, one and all! Long live the obsession!!!

Evan

Evan, I am torn between laughing and crying. Perhaps you should hang it up and get another degree . . .

:)

Evan,

You had me worried. Before reading your post, I thought the problem was with the processor. Now I see you are the problem :). Clearly you are Jinxed!

ArtV

finally giving up and buying a new processor from IR, well you all know how this story ends.


Evan,

Call Jason!

R

After a ten-year absence of participation in my favorite hobby (graduate school and the new small-business had to be my priorities), I decided it was time to do a major overhaul of my home entertainment system. So, about a year in half ago I invested an extraordinary amount of time in research and cash to achieve this most noble goal. Looking back now, I am flabbergasted by what has happened.

My satellite receiver continually requires a reset, my 56" DLP has now broken twice (color wheel and the power supply), my external DVI Geffen switcher continues to jump infrared signals every time I use my remote control, the video card in my computer requires a reboot to reacquire with the DVI switcher, the hard drive died and I lost only important information, the five acoustic sound panels I ordered from my room were ludicrously damaged and had to be sent back, the 5.1 (Paradigm Signature) speaker system delivered with the center channel speaker both damaged and not matching the other speakers in finish, so after six long months (and many phone calls and e-mails), they never delivered the new one, so I had to return them and order new speakers, my Onkyo SP 1000 DVD player has major problems with lip-synch, I postponed the most important purchase of a Pre/Pro for ten months while I eagerly awaited (like a trained to seal) for the continually promised upgrades from Anthem, and after finally giving up and buying a new processor from IR, well you all know how this story ends.

Every single piece of equipment I have purchased has had major issues. The amount of time and energy I have expended trying to diagnose, address, and resolve (oh, how I love tech support) all these issues is simply incomprehensible. My girlfriend continues to watch in stunned amazement wondering why I continue with this insanity.

However, when the humidity and temperature are just right, the moon is full, and the stars are in alignment, my equipment all occasionally works as designed in a synchronous manner. These rare, but wonderful moments bring me the greatest joy in my middle-aged life. Sad but true. I still adore this hobby and the goosebumps it brings. But all my goodness, this has been one high maintenance love affair. My condolences to all my forum members who have had similar stories and tenaciously continue forward in this most noble of pursuits. I consider us all brave and loyal warriors, one and all! Long live the obsession!!!

Evan


......someone must be jamming you man, maybe there's a disgruntled client in your past taking matters into their own hands. Check for a mysterious van parked on the block somewhere, it may or may not have a strange antenna & Acme Inc on the side.

......someone must be jamming you man, maybe there's a disgruntled client in your past taking matters into their own hands. Check for a mysterious van parked on the block somewhere, it may or may not have a strange antenna & Acme Inc on the side.
He should have taken the blue pill instead of the red one.

OK, I just got the Integra Research RDA-7.1 amp and I am using the balanced connections. I do get a popping sound from the rear speaker(s) when I change inputs and listening modes.

R

Hi Raz:

That's the same problem I described when I set up my unit. I am using the RDA-7 for the amp. I have a popping sound from the rear surround speakers when I turn the unit off or switch between some modalities. I am using XLR connections all around. I thought that maybe it was the speakers, as I have a different brand for the rear surrounds.

The sound occurs when I switch from analog to stereo modes or different types of decoding, but not when I change from one input to another if they are set for the same type of signal (e.g. PLXII). I've gotten used to it. It was doing this when changing channels on my STB initially. After each change, the unit would first default to a stereo signal and then change to PLXII or another multichannel signal. I set it to default to a multichannel setting which eliminated this problem.

Jeff

I feel quite lucky with my unit. I had a couple of minor I-Link niggles and a DTS prob (One that still occurs with all Pioneer and Sony Recievers) with firmware before 1.07 but since 1.07 all it has done wrong is turn itself into standby once on its own, then again power here isnt very good and running a 240-120V transformer probably doesnt help matters either. Its a very early unit.

I was doing so good with no problems until now.

I just bought a new Pioneer Elite dv-79avi and connected it to the RDC 7.1 via firewire. The 79avi works very well. However, when I play SACDs there is no center channel. The center channel works fine on DD and other formats. Just not on SACD.

I assume since Im using firewire, its not the CD/DVD player. Has anyone had a similar problem?

Thanks

John

I was doing so good with no problems until now.

I just bought a new Pioneer Elite dv-79avi and connected it to the RDC 7.1 via firewire. The 79avi works very well. However, when I play SACDs there is no center channel. The center channel works fine on DD and other formats. Just not on SACD.

I assume since Im using firewire, its not the CD/DVD player. Has anyone had a similar problem?

Thanks

John
Are there rear/side channels on those SACD's? Are the SACD's multi-channel, or are they STEREO?

Are there rear/side channels on those SACD's? Are the SACD's multi-channel, or are they STEREO?

Yes, yes, no.

Until I switched to my new CD/DVD player today, the center was working fine. I was using the 5.1 analog connections on my previous player. Now Im using firewire.

Yes, yes, no.

Until I switched to my new CD/DVD player today, the center was working fine. I was using the 5.1 analog connections on my previous player. Now Im using firewire.
Just for yuks and process of elimination reasons, try the 5.1 analog connections from the new player to the pre/pro.

The center channel is there on DVD-A's?

Just for yuks and process of elimination reasons, try the 5.1 analog connections from the new player to the pre/pro.

The center channel is there on DVD-A's?

Im kicking myself because making connections to my RDC 7.1 is a 3-4 hour job due to access.

When I posted about my new 79avi, I stated that I was going to connect the analog 5.1 connections and the firewire just in case. When I rewired my system this morning I used the extra analog cables for some other connections and I was too lazy to get in the car and drive 10 minutes to get new cables so I didnt hook up the analog connections. Arghhhhhhh!

Too tired to do it today, it will have to be a weekend project.

Im hoping its some setting in the RDC 7.1 but Ive been through the menus a bunch of times and dont see anything that looks like it would be a problem.

John

Im kicking myself because making connections to my RDC 7.1 is a 3-4 hour job due to access.

When I posted about my new 79avi, I stated that I was going to connect the analog 5.1 connections and the firewire just in case. When I rewired my system this morning I used the extra analog cables for some other connections and I was too lazy to get in the car and drive 10 minutes to get new cables so I didnt hook up the analog connections. Arghhhhhhh!

Too tired to do it today, it will have to be a weekend project.

Im hoping its some setting in the RDC 7.1 but Ive been through the menus a bunch of times and dont see anything that looks like it would be a problem.

John
John, with your present Firewire conection, does the center channel work on DVD-A's?

Im kicking myself because making connections to my RDC 7.1 is a 3-4 hour job due to access.

When I posted about my new 79avi, I stated that I was going to connect the analog 5.1 connections and the firewire just in case. When I rewired my system this morning I used the extra analog cables for some other connections and I was too lazy to get in the car and drive 10 minutes to get new cables so I didnt hook up the analog connections. Arghhhhhhh!

Too tired to do it today, it will have to be a weekend project.

Im hoping its some setting in the RDC 7.1 but Ive been through the menus a bunch of times and dont see anything that looks like it would be a problem.

John

.....could it be something in the setup menu of the Pioneer? My Pioneer Elite dvd has quite a few setup options related to which audio formats default to which connection and so on. Maybe something for the 79's firewire out has to be tweaked.....

Andy.

John, with your present Firewire conection, does the center channel work on DVD-A's?
Unfortunately, I dont own any DVD-As. I will head out tomorrow and pick one up along with a set of analog cables for the 5.1 connection.

Unfortunately, I dont own any DVD-As. I will head out tomorrow and pick one up along with a set of analog cables for the 5.1 connection.

Get Blue Man Group's 'Complex' or 'Audio', awesome DVD-A's.

R

.....could it be something in the setup menu of the Pioneer? My Pioneer Elite dvd has quite a few setup options related to which audio formats default to which connection and so on. Maybe something for the 79's firewire out has to be tweaked.....

Andy.
Ive gone through the 79 menus a few times now looking for anything that might change the center channel. On the 79, most of the audio menu items dont affect the firewire audio settings. The is one main menu and sub menus for the firewire.

Get Blue Man Group's 'Complex' or 'Audio', awesome DVD-A's.

R

Raz,

Youve been around the 7.1 for a while. Have you ever heard of this problem. I know some people (I think Evan) had a problem with the center channel cutting out but I havent found anything about it never working on SACD.

I will give it a few smacks over the weekend and if it doesnt come around, I'll give Jason a call and see if he knows anything or can get me in touch with IR Tech Support.

John

Ive gone through the 79 menus a few times now looking for anything that might change the center channel. On the 79, most of the audio menu items dont affect the firewire audio settings. The is one main menu and sub menus for the firewire.


....hmmm, i guess if things are setup right on the 79 and your ieee1394 menu in rdc is set to sacd then it's a puzzler. Obviously all sacd titles are doing this?......do you have something else for a firewire source to hook onto it, try and reproduce it with another source? What if you were to set other speakers to off and 'force' output to center somehow? Btw....is the center out completely or just muted heavily?.......can you hear it a bit if you crank the center level?

Andy.

John,

I'm so sorry to hear your having problems with your new processor. Hopefully my issues are in no way related to your problems. But just in case I will restate what has been going on with my unit. My unit can not immediately acquire the center channel signal when I switch sources to Dolby Digital. It's completely muted at first, and then after a few minutes it suddenly kicks in. This has eventually progressed to also being an issue with Dolby pro logic II as well. Once, it did the opposite and only the center channel worked when using Dolby pro logic. Yesterday it developed a new and disturbing habit. When I would adjust the volume, the center channel would once again be lost and I would he unable to hear dialogue. It does eventually reacquired the signal again, but only after a few minutes of patiently waiting. I have not experienced this issue when using SACD/DVD-A.

I'm not sure this has any relation to what you're experiencing. I hate to say it, but you should definitely experiment using analog RCA cables (I'm only using i-link). Getting a DVD-Audio disk also seems like a good idea. You might try doing a reset (but you will lose all your settings).

Good luck!
Evan

Evan, hows the quality of ac that supplies your gear?

Andy.

Raz,
Youve been around the 7.1 for a while. Have you ever heard of this problem. I know some people (I think Evan) had a problem with the center channel cutting out but I havent found anything about it never working on SACD.


John,

I have never used i-Link, only the multichannel analog inputs. The 4 units I tried never had any center channel cutting out problems.

You have to try a DVD-A and see if you have the same problem with DVD-A's that you have with SACD's.

R

But just in case I will restate what has been going on with my unit.

Evan,

I talked to Jason today and he told me that Integra Research will exchange your unit if you want, just give him a call.

R

Andy,

That's a very good question, I've been thinking about that myself. I'm afraid I'm not technically advanced enough to know how to how to figure that out on my own without hiring an electrician (perhaps that would be money well spent). I have been seriously considering investing in a voltage regulator. APC (any relation to you? :) ) just released a series of surge protectors/voltage regulator at a very affordable price. They are UL approved, and hopefully would be appropriate to use with the processor.

Evan

Wow, Raz thank you for mentioning this to Jason, that is good news! At least I think it's good news. My first choice would definitely be to have a 7.1 that works. Of course, my first one had no issues other than HDMI. However, I could always hold out in the hopes that the new version of the HDMI module might be more advanced and function successfully. My 2 year old Geffen switcher has no problem handling the signal between my Onkyo SP1000 and DLP, so I know it can be done.

Anyway, thanks again for bringing this up with Jason. I was too busy at work to give him call myself today. I had been previously speaking with his brother (very nice guy). It's nice to know I now have the option. I will give him a call.

Evan

P.S I think I will place an order for that voltage regulator tomorrow. Better safe than sorry.

Andy,

That's a very good question, I've been thinking about that myself. I'm afraid I'm not technically advanced enough to know how to how to figure that out on my own without hiring an electrician (perhaps that would be money well spent). I have been seriously considering investing in a voltage regulator. APC (any relation to you? :) ) just released a series of surge protectors/voltage regulator at a very affordable price. They are UL approved, and hopefully would be appropriate to use with the processor.

Evan

Evan, you could get a basic idea with a midrange Flukemeter just plugged into outlet. Just to assess how close you are to 120 VAC and 60 Hz. And you could take several readings at different times to see if there's much change as well. My ac voltage actually wanders 2-3 maybe 4 volts throughout the day...based on proximity to peak usage times. The freq. is locked at 59.96hz.
It is possible you may have power issues...& could be a common link to some of the list of issues
you have been experiencing over time with apparently several items in your gear stack. Might be worth looking into.....i know i have everything plugged into a surge/conditioner unit. I know there are all kinds of capabilities from basic functionality like mine to ,as you say, active regulation and even complete sine-wave reconstruction. APC make some good gear yeah...no affiliation ;)

Andy.

I actually liked your first theory better, about it being a disgruntled ex client :D . I just checked out some Flukemeters online. Do these suckers just plug directly into the wall? Can I get by with one of the more inexpensive ones (around $100.00)? I suppose it's a better investment than an electrician, because I can take several readings over an extended period of time. I have been utilizing a monster powerbar for most of my equipment (but not the 7.1). However, it's probably just a bunch of cheap MOV's that have long ago lost thier usefulness. And of course it offers no voltage regulation whatsoever. I was hesitant to use any kind of filtering/surge protection with the processor. I know Anthem specifically states not to use any line conditioning or power filtering aftermarket products with their processor. I guess at this point it couldn't hurt! Thanks for the info.

Evan

I actually liked your first theory better, about it being a disgruntled ex client :D . I just checked out some Flukemeters online. Do these suckers just plug directly into the wall? Can I get by with one of the more inexpensive ones (around $100.00)? I suppose it's a better investment than an electrician, because I can take several readings over an extended period of time. I have been utilizing a monster powerbar for most of my equipment (but not the 7.1). However, it's probably just a bunch of cheap MOV's that have long ago lost thier usefulness. And of course it offers no voltage regulation whatsoever. I was hesitant to use any kind of filtering/surge protection with the processor. I know Anthem specifically states not to use any aftermarket product with their processor. I guess at this point it couldn't hurt! Thanks for the info.

Evan

Admit it now, there were a few quick glances for suspect vans were there not? :) .............Yeah you could plug the test leads on a good mulitmeter directly into a wall outlet and read voltage for example and ac-frequency, if it has that capability. Flukes are high quality and used by tradesman.....they have a lifetime warranty & they have all kinds of uses. I have model 179 fwiw........it has a temperature probe too so you could justify the expense by making sure your coffee is brewed at the optimum 196F every morning....see, it 's worth the money already !?!?
I guess there is also the argument for just putting that money towards power-device directly and see if it helps you. ....

Andy.

....hmmm, i guess if things are setup right on the 79 and your ieee1394 menu in rdc is set to sacd then it's a puzzler. Obviously all sacd titles are doing this?......do you have something else for a firewire source to hook onto it, try and reproduce it with another source? What if you were to set other speakers to off and 'force' output to center somehow? Btw....is the center out completely or just muted heavily?.......can you hear it a bit if you crank the center level?

Andy.

The firewire works fine for DD and other signals. Its only on SACD that it has a problem. There is no sound from the center.

John,

I'm so sorry to hear your having problems with your new processor. Hopefully my issues are in no way related to your problems. But just in case I will restate what has been going on with my unit. My unit can not immediately acquire the center channel signal when I switch sources to Dolby Digital. It's completely muted at first, and then after a few minutes it suddenly kicks in. This has eventually progressed to also being an issue with Dolby pro logic II as well. Once, it did the opposite and only the center channel worked when using Dolby pro logic. Yesterday it developed a new and disturbing habit. When I would adjust the volume, the center channel would once again be lost and I would he unable to hear dialogue. It does eventually reacquired the signal again, but only after a few minutes of patiently waiting. I have not experienced this issue when using SACD/DVD-A.

I'm not sure this has any relation to what you're experiencing. I hate to say it, but you should definitely experiment using analog RCA cables (I'm only using i-link). Getting a DVD-Audio disk also seems like a good idea. You might try doing a reset (but you will lose all your settings).

Good luck!
Evan

I've considered a reset. Im assuming when I hook up the analog SACD cables, it will work. I am going to try this weekend.

I bought the cables and hooked my new DV-79avi to the analog Multi-Channel input of the RDC 7.1

As I suspected the SACD and DVD-A both work fine over the analog connection.

The DVD-A works fine over the firewire.

The SACD still has no center channel when played over the firewire.

Is anyone using firewire to connect their SACD player to their RDC 7.1? If so, are you able to get center channel output on SACDs?

Thanks

John

John,

I have a Denon 3910 hooked up to my RDC 7.1 via firewire. The center channel works with all formats including SACD. What SACD(s) are you using?

ArtV

I have my Onkyo SP 1000 hooked up using FireWire and have no issues. This is of course an impractical suggestion, but it would be great if you had another DVD player with FireWire out to test with the 7.1. However, from my own personal experience I would be willing to bet the issue is with the processor.

I spoke with my dealer yesterday, and apparently there was some mistake in the communication with IR. They apparently confused the issues I was having with my processor, with issues other individuals were experiencing with their units. This is why the company refused to send me a new unit. They felt I might be having an issue on my end that had nothing to do with the processor itself. So, I will hopefully get a new processor after all.

I spoke this weekend with my neighbor who lives in the same Townhome complex as I do. He just did a complete remodel of his condo, and had an electrician come to rewire all the electrical. He was concerned about the quality of the power coming in as well, and was told the power was as clean and stable as could be. Nevertheless, I placed an order for the APC surge protector/voltage regulator anyway.


Evan

I bought the cables and hooked my new DV-79avi to the analog Multi-Channel input of the RDC 7.1

As I suspected the SACD and DVD-A both work fine over the analog connection.

The DVD-A works fine over the firewire.

The SACD still has no center channel when played over the firewire.

Is anyone using firewire to connect their SACD player to their RDC 7.1? If so, are you able to get center channel output on SACDs?

Thanks

John


...as others have said i would definitely try another source with the sacd titles over firewire...just to rule out the player. ....heck of a lot easier swapping that out vs a 60lb pre/pro. Even if it requires a
'buy' and return for refund. :)

Andy.

I spoke this weekend with my neighbor who lives in the same Townhome complex as I do. He just did a complete remodel of his condo, and had an electrician come to rewire all the electrical. He was concerned about the quality of the power coming in as well, and was told the power was as clean and stable as could be. Nevertheless, I placed an order for the APC surge protector/voltage regulator anyway.

Good move! But I doubt an electrician would have test gear - or knowledge - that would enable him to render an opinion on the quality of your power. He could probably check for momentary fluctuations, but that's about it.

The SACDs I used were Dark Side of the Moon, Brothers in Arms and Avalon.

All had the same problem.

I will speak to the salesman at Magnolia about getting a loaner with firewire to test another unit.

There is another AVS forum member who has a 79avi and RDC 7.1 who is going to let me know how his SACDs work. He indicated that his DVD-As worked fine.

John

Johnny,

First let me say that the RDC 7.1 is very confusing to use. What listening mode do you have the firewire SACD set to? How about the i.LINK(IEEE1394):SACD input Setup Sub-Menu?

ArtV

The SACDs I used were Dark Side of the Moon, Brothers in Arms and Avalon.

All had the same problem.

I will speak to the salesman at Magnolia about getting a loaner with firewire to test another unit.

There is another AVS forum member who has a 79avi and RDC 7.1 who is going to let me know how his SACDs work. He indicated that his DVD-As worked fine.

John

I have those same SACDs and they all work perfectly with my Denon DVD-3910 connected via I.LINK to my RDC-7.1. Does your 79avi and RDC 7.1 both have the latest firmware? Disconnect the RDC-7.1 from the AC outlet for five minutes and try reproducing the problem. Have you tried physically disconnecting and reconnecting the I.LINK cable?

I will unplug the unit and reconnect after 5 minutes.

Im not in front of my unit right now but I believe the Auido Input for CD is set to IEEE1394 "79avi", all other inputs are "No".

On the listening mode menu SACD is set to "SACD" and DVD-A is set to "DVD-A". I dont believe there are any other menu settings that impact the Firewire Multichannel playback. Perhaps Im wrong.

FWIW - The other AVS forum member who has a 79avi has no problem with DVD-A or SACD over firewire.

John

You guys catch the responses from the HDMI folks posted at Secrets?

TM

You guys catch the responses from the HDMI folks posted at Secrets?

TM
Hi TM,

Are the comments specifically re HDMI, or RDC-7.1 related?

You guys catch the responses from the HDMI folks posted at Secrets?

TM


...i noticed the hdmi fellas mentioned that some manufacturers aren't implementing 'hdmi-repeaters'
properly in their equipment such that it may raise hell with hdmi switching.

It would seem that this HDMI debacle is widespread. I just read a review where they were apparently experiencing the same difficulty in the new Arcam AVP 700 processor, where the HDMI was not sending a signal through properly. I am really surprised that these items are not tested more thoroughly before being released to the consumer. What really surprised me, is that my Onkyo SP 1000 does not work with my IR 7.1! You would think this would be one combination that was guaranteed to work together (the SP 1000 and the IR RDV 1.1 are essentially one in the same, just like the NR 1000 and 7.1 are the same animal).

Brian, at IR tech support essentially promise to call me back with a fix. That was over a month ago, and I not exactly holding my breath with anticipation that he will ever fulfill this promise. Perhaps the new HDMI module will be further advanced, and hopefully more thoroughly tested. However, I think we have a long wait until we actually see this upgraded card. The No. 1 feature (besides sound quality) that made me buy this unit was its HDMI switching capability. Oh well, I'm still loving the FireWire.

Evan

It's an "interesting" issue this whole HDMI switching fiasco. On the surface it would seem that the pre/pros (and avrs, etc) are at fault right? You go through them, you get problems. You go direct to the display, you get no problems.

On the other hand, what I've experienced makes much more sense in light of what the HDMI folks are saying. I can switch my DVD player's HDMI output through my 7.1 no problem. But my cable STB's...ugh - HDCP handshake problems galore - so much so that as some of you may recall I've reluctantly switched to component for my cable box (but still use the 7.1 to output HDMI).

I'm not sure who I'd rather have to hammer for a fix though - at least IR is quasi responsive - there do occassionally seem to be real people on the other end of the phone :) WIth Scientific Atlanta and Time Warner Cable...YIKES! I don't anticipate a quick fix there!

TM

I use an HDMI-to-DVI cable from my cable box and switch it and my Denon 3910 external to my RDC-7 with completely trouble-free operation. The cable box successfully handshakes with the projector every time. Perhaps RDC-7.1 users could convert HDMI to DVI and back again to HDMI as a workaround to strip out whatever about HDMI is causing problems . . . .

Unfortunately I've tried with and without converting (HDMI->DVI->HDMI) and it doesn't make a difference.

TM

Unfortunately I've tried with and without converting (HDMI->DVI->HDMI) and it doesn't make a difference.

TM
That is very weird as I have no problems with switching DVI.

Evan,
I have an O-Scope and a Fluke 87 that you may borrow anytime if you are concerned about your power. We need to get together anyway as I want to see your set-up. Let me know!!

Jeff,

I shall definitely take you up on your kind offer to borrow your testing equipment. I installed the voltage regulator and will be interested to see if it makes any difference. I will give you a call and perhaps this weekend we will finally have an opportunity to hear each other's setup.

Evan

Jeff,

I shall definitely take you up on your kind offer to borrow your testing equipment. I installed the voltage regulator and will be interested to see if it makes any difference. I will give you a call and perhaps this weekend we will finally have an opportunity to hear each other's setup.

Evan

Evan,

How's your RDC-7.1? Got a new one?

R

Hey Raz

I finally spoke directly with Jason late last week. Apparently there was some confusion, and they had mistakenly grouped some issues they had (loud popping sounds when changing inputs) with other units, with the issues I was having with mine. No wonder IR refused to give me another unit. I guess they assumed my home was demonicly possessed, and I was in need of an electronic exorcism.

However, my issues are still very real and are slowly driving me crazy :mad: . I believe Jason is going to order me a third unit, but I believe things are a bit slow due to the holidays. I am hoping this gets resolved soon, and that my next unit has no problems whatsoever (wouldn't that be nice!).

Evan

By the way, how close do you live to Laguna Niguel?

By the way, how close do you live to Laguna Niguel?

I'm in North Orange County.

R

However, my issues are still very real and are slowly driving me crazy :mad: . I believe Jason is going to order me a third unit, but I believe things are a bit slow due to the holidays. I am hoping this gets resolved soon, and that my next unit has no problems whatsoever (wouldn't that be nice!).

Evan


Evan,

Please check your PM.

R

My IR RDA-7.1 amp died after just a few weeks of usage - I returned it. I know that several RDC-7.1 owners are using the ATI 2007 amp with their RDC-7.1's. Friday I placed an order for the ATI 2007 amp only to find out later that some owners have had the peak indicator light on their amps come on quite often. One of the ATI owners wrote on another forum that "I am using an Ati 2007 200 watt amp and I can get the peak indicator going pretty easily". According to the ATI 2007 manual "this light will come on if the amplifier exceeds its maximum output capability on any channel". Have other ATI 2007 owners experienced this? I'm thinking that the light coming on pretty easily can't be a good sign and I am now considering cancelling my order.

R

According to the ATI 2007 manual "this light will come on if the amplifier exceeds its maximum output capability on any channel". Have other ATI 2007 owners experienced this? I'm thinking that the light coming on pretty easily can't be a good sign and I am now considering cancelling my order.

I'm sorry to hear about your RDA-7.1 failure. :( :eek: I have been using the ATI for six months and I have not caused the peak indicator light to come on yet. I prefer to listen at -15 db from reference most of the time. There is also the ATI 3007 at 300W which might hit reference levels more easily. The ATI 2007 has been problem-free for me and the sound quality is very good when using balanced XLR cables.

Which speakers are being used by the person on the other forum? Maybe they present a difficult, not so efficient load.

Brian

Brian,

I think that the other guy has B&W 801's. I myself have Klipsch RF-7's for the fronts and the Klipsch RC-7 for the center. The RF-7 is very sensitive - 102 db's - but the impedance of the RF-7 drops below 3 ohms at certain frequencies. I would hate to get the AT 2007 and then have the peak light come on.

I also read that owners of the older ATI 2505 also had the peak light come on 'easily'.

R

I just purchased a Sherbourn 7/2100A amplifier (http://www.sherbourn.com/products/7_2100.php). It is generally recommended over the ATI, if you believe the Amplifier Shootout thread (http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=405527&highlight=amplifier+gemstone+sherbourn) thread. I've seen some comments regarding the ATI amps that made me look into alternative brands, but I'm sure others have had great experiences. The Gemstone Audio Blue Diamond amp (http://www.gemstoneaudio.com/) is another great price/performance amplifier, but it was more expensive and didn't offer a rack mount option, so I went with the Sherbourn.

Differences between the two are that the Sherbourn is rack mountable with optional ears, has auto on-off based on the audio inputs (both have 12-volt on/off input), and has a feature that allows for checking of impudence on all channels during installation (to detect/prevent failures due to shorts).

The Gemstone is more powerful at lower loads. It's 200W at 8 ohms, just like the Sherbourn, but it doubles down to 400W at 4 ohms (most 200W amps output 300W at 4 ohms). It's taller, deeper, and not as wide as the Sherbourn, which gave me mounting problems (it's deeper than my rack, so couldn't use a shelf).

The architecture difference between the two is that the Sherbourn uses discrete power for each channel, so if one channel is drawing very high current and the others are not, that channel can't draw on extra unused reserves. Instead, it draws more current from the wall outlet. However, the upside is that this also prevents one channel from taking power from another channel that may need it. The Gemstone, on the other hand, has shared power between channels and distributes power to the channels that needs it most (common for home theater). With the power reserves that both of these amps have, I doubt there is any noticeable difference that results from the design differences. Of all the reviews I read here, at audioholics, and elsewhere, there were not complaints about either being underpowered under any situation.

PM me if you'd like more info.

The amp shootout used an ATI 1502 (http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3891443#post3891443), which is 150 WPC and not a balanced design. The ATI 2007 is completely redesigned with a balanced design and 200 WPC. It is not possible to conclude how the ATI 2007 would have done in the comparison based on the performance of the ATI 1502.

I have not heard the Sherbourn or Gemstone. Based on yours and other comments , I am sure they are very good amps.

Brian

I just purchased a Sherbourn 7/2100A amplifier[/url]. The Gemstone Audio Blue Diamond amp[/url] is another great price/performance amplifier
Of all the reviews I read here, at audioholics, and elsewhere, there were not complaints about either being underpowered under any situation.


The Sherbourn is not balanced and I don't like the company much - I sent them several e-mails and left a message on their answering machine but got no reply.

The Gemstone seems to have problems with the Master and Commander and War of the Worlds DVD's - the amp cuts out during certain scenes, check out this thread for more info: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=609419
I've also read that the output is not the same for all channels - several people have reported that the main speakers sound a little different from the surrounds.

R

The Sherbourn is not balanced and I don't like the company much - I sent them several e-mails and left a message on their answering machine but got no reply.

The Gemstone seems to have problems with the Master and Commander and War of the Worlds DVD's - the amp cuts out during certain scenes, check out this thread for more info: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=609419
I've also read that the output is not the same for all channels - several people have reported that the main speakers sound a little different from the surrounds.

R


The Sherbourn is balanced.

My IR RDA-7.1 amp died after just a few weeks of usage - I returned it. I know that several RDC-7.1 owners are using the ATI 2007 amp with their RDC-7.1's. Friday I placed an order for the ATI 2007 amp only to find out later that some owners have had the peak indicator light on their amps come on quite often. One of the ATI owners wrote on another forum that "I am using an Ati 2007 200 watt amp and I can get the peak indicator going pretty easily". According to the ATI 2007 manual "this light will come on if the amplifier exceeds its maximum output capability on any channel". Have other ATI 2007 owners experienced this? I'm thinking that the light coming on pretty easily can't be a good sign and I am now considering cancelling my order.

R
Hi Raz,

FWIW, I use the 2007 and RDC-7 with my M&K S-150-based 7.1 system in an approx 13' x 21' x 8'6" room and have NEVER seen the peak light come on. I usually run the system at +/- 3dB of Dolby reference level. (The .1 is dual Hsu TN-1220HO subs.)

Hi Raz,

FWIW, I use the 2007 and RDC-7 with my M&K S-150-based 7.1 system in an approx 13' x 21' x 8'6" room and have NEVER seen the peak light come on. I usually run the system at +/- 3dB of Dolby reference level. (The .1 is dual Hsu TN-1220HO subs.)

What level do you measure for the pink noise signals on each channel from the pre/pro for calibration? I've been using 75 db on the RS meter. Also, what is the volume reading on the RDC-7 when you are at Dolby reference level? There is a good chance I am off with my numbers.

Brian

Hi Raz,

FWIW, I use the 2007 and RDC-7 with my M&K S-150-based 7.1 system in an approx 13' x 21' x 8'6" room and have NEVER seen the peak light come on. I usually run the system at +/- 3dB of Dolby reference level. (The .1 is dual Hsu TN-1220HO subs.)

My room is 22 x 21 x 17. The IR amp rated at 7 x 150 watts was powerful enough for my room so I think that the ATI will do just fine.

R

I've been using 75 db on the RS meter.

Same here.

R

What level do you measure for the pink noise signals on each channel from the pre/pro for calibration? I've been using 75 db on the RS meter. Also, what is the volume reading on the RDC-7 when you are at Dolby reference level?
I twiddle the RDC-7's volume to "70" and adjust all of the individual speaker calibration settings, including sub, to attain 75dB on the RS set to "C" and "SLOW."

There is a good chance I am off with my numbers.
Have you ever looked at your SPL meter with movies/music?

Whether you have or not, how does your system sound when set to reference level? (Loud? Strained? Perfect?)

With my settings, whispers, while crystal clear, sound like whispers, screams like scream and explosions like explosions. In fact, everything sounds just like you'd expect it to.

My room is 22 x 21 x 17. The IR amp rated at 7 x 150 watts was powerful enough for my room so I think that the ATI will do just fine.
The previous incarnation of my home theater used an ATI 1505. That sounded a wee bit strained at times. The 2007 is a whole different animal from the ground up and my system now sounds excellent. What really tells me I'm satisfied is the fact that I feel absolutely no need to upgrade to a 3007! :)

I twiddle the RDC-7's volume to "70" and adjust all of the individual speaker calibration settings, including sub, to attain 75dB on the RS set to "C" and "SLOW."


Have you ever looked at your SPL meter with movies/music?

Whether you have or not, how does your system sound when set to reference level? (Loud? Strained? Perfect?)

With my settings, whispers, while crystal clear, sound like whispers, screams like scream and explosions like explosions. In fact, everything sounds just like you'd expect it to.

Your volume settings seem different than mine. I set the volume to -24 db on the RDC-7.1 while playing a CD and the RS meter showed a playback volume of 72 to 73 db. That's what I would consider moderately loud. The -20 db setting is loud but not strained at all. I didn't take a meter reading at that level. The relative loudness depends on the CD, because some are louder overall than others.

For movies, the -20 db level is a moderately loud level for me and -15 db is loud (at the peak levels). Normal dialog levels are somewhere in the middle of that range for me. On the few occasions that I "cranked it", I ventured into the -10 db range. :D

Adjusting the main volume level before going into the test tone setup menu makes no difference in the relative volume reading on the RS meter. I am just trying to correlate the volume indicator on the front panel to Dolby reference level. It would have made sense to use 0 db, but I'm not sure that's correct. Dolby reference is apparently 105 db peaks, so I will have to do more measuring of my peak levels and compare them to the volume indicator.

Brian

I set the volume to -24 db on the RDC-7.1 while playing a CD and the RS meter showed a playback volume of 72 to 73 db. That's what I would consider moderately loud. The -20 db setting is loud but not strained at all.


-30 db on my RDC-7.1 is pretty loud for CD's, maybe that's because my Klipsch's are so sensitive - 102 db's. I see that you're using the relative value setting for volume - negative values. The RDC-7.1 also has an absolute value setting for volume - from 0 to 100 db's, you can choose the setting you want in the ''Preference' menu.

R

Your volume settings seem different than mine. I set the volume to -24 db on the RDC-7.1 while playing a CD and the RS meter showed a playback volume of 72 to 73 db. That's what I would consider moderately loud. The -20 db setting is loud but not strained at all. I didn't take a meter reading at that level. The relative loudness depends on the CD, because some are louder overall than others.

For movies, the -20 db level is a moderately loud level for me and -15 db is loud (at the peak levels). Normal dialog levels are somewhere in the middle of that range for me. On the few occasions that I "cranked it", I ventured into the -10 db range. :D
I'm not sure how to correlate the "-xx dB" volume settings of the 7.1 to the 7's "zero-to-whatever", but even if I used the 7.1 other factors - room volume, acoustical properties, speaker efficiency, etc - may make it difficult anyway.

Adjusting the main volume level before going into the test tone setup menu makes no difference in the relative volume reading on the RS meter. I am just trying to correlate the volume indicator on the front panel to Dolby reference level. It would have made sense to use 0 db, but I'm not sure that's correct. Dolby reference is apparently 105 db peaks, so I will have to do more measuring of my peak levels and compare them to the volume indicator.
My individual speaker calibration levels - +/- the "70" on the volume control - range from ~+4dB on the side surrounds to the +1.0dB to -1.0dB around the rest of the system. Within the range of adjustment of these settings, you could dial the volume control to anywhere you wanted and still peg your "reference level" to 75dB. For example, when I first set it up I used "65" as my reference level. Understandably, all of the settings were precisely +5.0dB higher than they are now. I redid it at 70 because it was easier to remember AND it pulled the individual setting closer to zero, which also seemed more . . "elegant."

Again, I go for whispers sounding like whispers and explosions like explosions; everything else fills in between quite nicely - and realistically.

-30 db on my RDC-7.1 is pretty loud for CD's, maybe that's because my Klipsch's are so sensitive - 102 db's. I see that you're using the relative value setting for volume - negative values. The RDC-7.1 also has an absolute value setting for volume - from 0 to 100 db's, you can choose the setting you want in the ''Preference' menu.

R
Gosh, never looked; does the RDC-7 have the same preference setting? Somehow, though, big positive numbers are more satisfying than small negative ones. :)

Gosh, never looked; does the RDC-7 have the same preference setting? Somehow, though, big positive numbers are more satisfying than small negative ones. :)

It turns out, changing the RDC-7.1 from relative to absolute volume levels adds 82 db to the volume level. So instead of -20 db it would now read 62 db. I got used to the negative db levels after using the B&K pre/pro for many years. That unit probably has a similar setting I didn't know about, either. :rolleyes:

Brian

It turns out, changing the RDC-7.1 from relative to absolute volume levels adds 82 db to the volume level. So instead of -20 db it would now read 62 db. I got used to the negative db levels after using the B&K pre/pro for many years. That unit probably has a similar setting I didn't know about, either. :rolleyes:

Brian
So, more or less, the "70" on my RDC-7 equates to -12dB on your RDC-7? That can't be right, can it? What did I miss and/or incorrectly assume?

Nice write-up on the 7.1.

Here's the link: http://www.ultimateavmag.com/surroundsoundpreampprocessors/1205integra/

Bish

So, more or less, the "70" on my RDC-7 equates to -12dB on your RDC-7? That can't be right, can it? What did I miss and/or incorrectly assume?

The RDC-7.1 does not change the volume of the test tones according to the main volume setting. The test tones are set for an absolute 75 db, which can be fine tuned with a relative -12 db to +12 db range. The behavior must be different for the RDC-7.

Brian

I was just reading the review in this month's issue of ultimate AV (thanks bish), and was not the least bit surprised to read that the reviewer had numerous and varying issues with the HDMI module, on no less than three different display devices! Although this is little consolation for me, it is nice to know I'm not the only one with this problem. I really hope the new version of the next HDMI card is more successfully designed and tested. Like myself, the reviewer's external HDMI switcher(geffen), had no problems whatsoever.

As for my own sad story, I am now forced to listen to all inputs in two channel stereo only. I have been dealing with this problem since September. This is getting really old.

Evan

The RDC-7.1 does not change the volume of the test tones according to the main volume setting. The test tones are set for an absolute 75 db, which can be fine tuned with a relative -12 db to +12 db range. The behavior must be different for the RDC-7.

Brian
Yes, the volume of the RDC-7-generated test tones varies with the volume control and, of course, with the individual speaker calibration levels.

I just got my ATI 2007 and I noticed that 6-7 seconds after I turn the amp off there is a whistling sound coming from the speakers that lasts about 3-4 seconds. Anyone else noticed this?

R

Yes, I have noticed that whistling sound when it shuts down each pair of channels. I attributed it to having old, two-conductor electrical wiring in my house and no independent ground wire in the outlet. Does that situation apply in your case?

Brian

I just got my ATI 2007 and I noticed that 6-7 seconds after I turn the amp off there is a whistling sound coming from the speakers that lasts about 3-4 seconds. Anyone else noticed this?

R
Raz & Brian -

No, not a sound. I'm pretty sure there are relays that delay turning the speakers on when powering up and kick out immediately on power off. What you describe sounds like capacitors discharging. Power-on thumps and dis-charging circuitry on power-down is exactly why there are relays.

I'll verify tonight.

Yes, I have noticed that whistling sound when it shuts down each pair of channels. I attributed it to having old, two-conductor electrical wiring in my house and no independent ground wire in the outlet. Does that situation apply in your case?


No, my outlets are all 3-conductor outlets...

R

No, my outlets are all 3-conductor outlets...

R

Have you tested the outlets with one of those tester plugs with the LEDs? My house has 3-conductor outlets but the ground plug is not wired to anything.

The other possibility is speaker sensitivity. Pepar, you might try standing a foot away from the speaker while powering off to find out if you can hear it then.

Brian

Have you tested the outlets with one of those tester plugs with the LEDs? My house has 3-conductor outlets but the ground plug is not wired to anything.

The other possibility is speaker sensitivity. Pepar, you might try standing a foot away from the speaker while powering off to find out if you can hear it then.

Brian
Will do.

Have you tested the outlets with one of those tester plugs with the LEDs?

Yes, the outlets are OK.

R

The whistling or the "slowly letting the air out of the balloon" :D sound is not from the processor. It happens when leaving the processor powered on and switching off the amp using the power switch.

Brian

The other possibility is speaker sensitivity. Pepar, you might try standing a foot away from the speaker while powering off to find out if you can hear it then.

I can hear the whistling sound from 20 - 30 feet away.

R

You said your speakers have 102 db efficiency. Pepar's and mine are probably less. I can hear the sound from 10 feet away if I listen very carefully. Even from a foot away, I would still consider that shutdown noise quiet in my system.

Brian

You said your speakers have 102 db efficiency. Pepar's and mine are probably less. I can hear the sound from 10 feet away if I listen very carefully. Even from a foot away, I would still consider that shutdown noise quiet in my system.

Brian

My surrounds are not as efficient - 89 db's - but the whistling sound is almost as loud as the one comimg from the mains and center.

R

You said your speakers have 102 db efficiency. Pepar's and mine are probably less. I can hear the sound from 10 feet away if I listen very carefully. Even from a foot away, I would still consider that shutdown noise quiet in my system.

Brian
Well, I'll be darned!

Upon RDC-7 power off - I'm using 12v triggers - the ATI 2007's relays all disengage within a second. There is total silence for about four seconds and then there is a slight high-pitched whistle starting high and sliding lower. This sliding whistle lasts about one second, at which time there is again total silence. It is slightly audible from LCR and barely audible from the rear surrounds. I cannot hear it from the side surrounds. My listening position at all speakers was - 2 INCHES. As I have never listened from 2" before, I never noticed it.

I cannot find sensitivity specs for my M&K S-150-based system.

I tested my electrical outlet with a tester plug. The outlet that is supplying the amp is wired properly according to the tester. I think it must be the only one in the whole house that is correct. :rolleyes: The house is 50 years old.

Pepar, the noise you describe matches what I hear. The volume seems like it must be related to some aspect of the speaker if it is not efficiency. Are you using balanced cables or RCA to the amp?

Brian

there is a slight high-pitched whistle starting high and sliding lower. This sliding whistle lasts about one second, at which time there is again total silence. It is slightly audible from LCR and barely audible from the rear surrounds. I cannot hear it from the side surrounds. My listening position at all speakers was - 2 INCHES.

Yes, that's the sound I was talking about but I can hear it from 20 feet away.

R

Are you using balanced cables or RCA to the amp?


I am using balanced cables.

R

Pepar, the noise you describe matches what I hear. The volume seems like it must be related to some aspect of the speaker if it is not efficiency. Are you using balanced cables or RCA to the amp?
Balanced here, too.

Mine makes three balanced setups. As a test, I didn't disconnect any cables but I flipped the seven switches on the back of the amp from balanced to unbalanced and did the shutdown. I still got the noise but I think it seemed quieter and shorter than with it set to balanced.

Brian

I also experience the same sound when shutting off my 2007 (XLR cables). I always keep my amp on, so I have only heard it once or twice. I also assumed it was the capacitors discharging. If it worries you give ATI a quick e-mail, I have always found them to be quite responsive to any questions.

Evan

I also experience the same sound when shutting off my 2007 (XLR cables). I always keep my amp on, so I have only heard it once or twice. I also assumed it was the capacitors discharging. If it worries you give ATI a quick e-mail, I have always found them to be quite responsive to any questions.

Evan
For me anyway, it's more of a curiousity than an "issue."

I also assumed it was the capacitors discharging.

I stopped by the ATI factory and talked to the owner, the whistling sound is indeed made by discharging capacitors. They even exchanged the amp for me and the new one does the same thing.

R

No need to call ATI when you can just stop by. :cool: Did they give you a tour of the factory? :)

Brian

I stopped by the ATI factory and talked to the owner, the whistling sound is indeed made by discharging capacitors. They even exchanged the amp for me and the new one does the same thing.

R
I would gladly accept a whistling 3007 for a whistling 2007 . . .

:)

No need to call ATI when you can just stop by. :cool: Did they give you a tour of the factory? :)

Brian

They didn't give me a tour but I did see the factory from inside, very nice folks.

I just re-calibrated my system. If anyone's curious here are my settings - I used a Radio Shack meter and set everything at 75 db's:

Front Right -8.0db
Center - 5.5 db
Front Left -7.5 db
Surround Right -1.0 db
Surround Right Rear -8.0
Surround Left Rear-8.5 db
Surround Left -1.5 db

R

I stopped by the ATI factory and talked to the owner

Totally cool!

They didn't give me a tour but I did see the factory from inside, very nice folks.

I just re-calibrated my system. If anyone's curious here are my settings - I used a Radio Shack meter and set everything at 75 db's:

Front Right -8.0db
Center - 5.5 db
Front Left -7.5 db
Surround Right -1.0 db
Surround Right Rear -8.0
Surround Left Rear-8.5 db
Surround Left -1.5 db

R
Running side surrounds dipole and rear surrounds monopole?

I was gone for a few days and missed the chance to contribute to this thread. Raz, I also have an ATI 2007 (seems to be a popular amp) and I definitely notice the whistling sound when the amp powers down. It is fairly loud. I have my amp running into a 20 amp dedicated outlet with no filters or conditioning. My NHT speakers are fairly inefficient at 86 db's. I know at this point the issue has already been settled but I just wanted to participate.

ArtV

Running side surrounds dipole and rear surrounds monopole?]

Monopole for both surrounds and rear surrounds.

R

I was gone for a few days and missed the chance to contribute to this thread. Raz, I also have an ATI 2007 (seems to be a popular amp) and I definitely notice the whistling sound when the amp powers down. It is fairly loud. I have my amp running into a 20 amp dedicated outlet with no filters or conditioning. My NHT speakers are fairly inefficient at 86 db's. I know at this point the issue has already been settled but I just wanted to participate.

ArtV

Here is another question: how would you guys characterize the sound of your ATI 2007 amp? I'm asking because I've noticed that the replacement amp sounds different from the first one I got.

The first amp was very fast but a little bright and 'thin' while the second one is fuller sounding and more laid back but not as fast as the first one. Both me and my wife noticed the difference...

R

I did notice a slight brightness to the amp when I first got mine. Now I would call it more neutral but still detailed. I'm not sure what you mean by 'fast.' The amp probably took a week or two for the break-in period. The first amp you got didn't have enough time for that. Perhaps your second one had more time on the test bench at the factory.

Brian

I'm not sure what you mean by 'fast.'

I listen to a lot of dance/techno and the beats/bass seemed faster and tighter with the first amp. The first amp was definitely brighter and more detailed than the second one.

R

]

Monopole for both surrounds and rear surrounds.

R
Hmmm, it just struck me as odd that your side surround settings were so different from the others . . .

Do you listen with the front mains full range or crossed over with a subwoofer? I got a sub just last weekend and I am working on integrating it. I have experimented with switching the signal to the sub on and off by alternating between Stereo and Direct modes. So far, I have set the phase switch to 180 degrees and adjusted the volume level, phase, distance and notch filter in the pre/pro using 1/12 octave test tones. I don't have a separate EQ box, so that is all of the sub adjustments I have to work with.

Brian

Here is another question: how would you guys characterize the sound of your ATI 2007 amp? I'm asking because I've noticed that the replacement amp sounds different from the first one I got.

The first amp was very fast but a little bright and 'thin' while the second one is fuller sounding and more laid back but not as fast as the first one. Both me and my wife noticed the difference...

R
I've not used more than one amp of each model - 1505 first, and now 2007 - so I can't comment on your question. However, this question - Why would two ATI amps of the same model sound different (as you and your wife have observed)? - would be best posed to the owner of ATI. You've met him; could you contact him again and ask?

Do you listen with the front mains full range or crossed over with a subwoofer? I got a sub just last weekend and I am working on integrating it. I have experimented with switching the signal to the sub on and off by alternating between Stereo and Direct modes. So far, I have set the phase switch to 180 degrees and adjusted the volume level, phase, distance and notch filter in the pre/pro using 1/12 octave test tones. I don't have a separate EQ box, so that is all of the sub adjustments I have to work with.

Brian
"There are no LARGE speakers, at least none that most of us can afford." - pepar

Do you listen with the front mains full range or crossed over with a subwoofer? I got a sub just last weekend and I am working on integrating it. I have experimented with switching the signal to the sub on and off by alternating between Stereo and Direct modes.


Usually crossed over with a sub - my mains are set to 40Hz but I sometimes use Pure Audio too. I've noticed that Pure Audio sounds better than Direct. For multichannel SACD/DVD-A I use the 5.1 analog input and Pure Audio.

R

I've not used more than one amp of each model - 1505 first, and now 2007 - so I can't comment on your question. However, this question - Why would two ATI amps of the same model sound different (as you and your wife have observed)? - would be best posed to the owner of ATI. You've met him; could you contact him again and ask?

My question is how is the ATI 2007 supposed to sound? Forward or laid back? I will give the owner a call but I was wondering what the other ATI 2007 owners' units sound like.

R

I don't know how it is supposed to sound, but mine sounds laid back. I wouldn't call it forward since the break-in. Who knows, maybe my ears did the breaking in? :D

Have you experimented with different crossover frequencies? My mains start to roll off around 40 Hz, so a 40 Hz crossover would just cause the rolloff to get steeper.

Brian

My question is how is the ATI 2007 supposed to sound? Forward or laid back? I will give the owner a call but I was wondering what the other ATI 2007 owners' units sound like.

R
That may be the wrong question as all of the other system components can affect the system's sound making it pretty much impossible to attribute any particular sonic quality to any individual component. Keeping everything else constant and changing only one component - the 2007 in your case - means any changes are due to the different 2007s.

Have you experimented with different crossover frequencies?


Oh, yes, and I think that I drove my wife and neighbors crazy in the process! I tried 40Hz, 50Hz, 60Hz, 70Hz, 80Hz and I liked 40Hz most ( my mains are supposed to go down to 32Hz).

R

Well its been a couple weeks and I managed to get the 7.1 to communicate with my Pioneer DV-79avi via firewire for DVD-Audio. It now works fine.

However, I still cant get the SACDs to play through the center channel over firewire. Im waiting for a call from someone at IR who is supposed to be able to help.

I was going through the manual last night and came across the "i.LINK(IEEE1394):SACD Input Setup Sub-menu" on page 108. According to the manual, this sub-menu should have:

a. LFE Level
b. SB Mode (5ch)
c. Re-EQ
d. Front Speaker
e. Center Speaker
f. Surr L/R Sp
g. Surr Bk Speaker
h. Subwoofer

When I navigate through the menus to get to this specific sub-menu, the only options I have are a, b, c, and h. Im guessing if I can get to the center channel control (e.) on this sub-menu, I might be able to fix my problem.

My firmware version is 1.09.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

John

Well its been a couple weeks and I managed to get the 7.1 to communicate with my Pioneer DV-79avi via firewire for DVD-Audio. It now works fine.

However, I still cant get the SACDs to play through the center channel over firewire. Im waiting for a call from someone at IR who is supposed to be able to help.

I was going through the manual last night and came across the "i.LINK(IEEE1394):SACD Input Setup Sub-menu" on page 108. According to the manual, this sub-menu should have:

a. LFE Level
b. SB Mode (5ch)
c. Re-EQ
d. Front Speaker
e. Center Speaker
f. Surr L/R Sp
g. Surr Bk Speaker
h. Subwoofer

When I navigate through the menus to get to this specific sub-menu, the only options I have are a, b, c, and h. Im guessing if I can get to the center channel control (e.) on this sub-menu, I might be able to fix my problem.

My firmware version is 1.09.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

John

I have the 7, not the 7.1, but from what I've read it sounds like you're only set up for 2-channel with sub. Items e through h are missing - without them, d is not needed. Just a thought . . . maybe look for a setting that is "5.1-related."

When I navigate through the menus to get to this specific sub-menu, the only options I have are a, b, c, and h. Im guessing if I can get to the center channel control (e.) on this sub-menu, I might be able to fix my problem.

My firmware version is 1.09.


Did you upgrade the firmware yourself or did yours ship like that? I was thinking if you upgraded it yourself that you might just reinstall the firmware. You could still do that otherwise, but you would first have to get someone to send you the file and you would need the serial cable. Not having all of the menu choices does seem like a problem that should be reported to IR, unless you can find the setting that enables those choices to appear.

Brian

Well its been a couple weeks and I managed to get the 7.1 to communicate with my Pioneer DV-79avi via firewire for DVD-Audio. It now works fine.

However, I still cant get the SACDs to play through the center channel over firewire. Im waiting for a call from someone at IR who is supposed to be able to help.

I was going through the manual last night and came across the "i.LINK(IEEE1394):SACD Input Setup Sub-menu" on page 108. According to the manual, this sub-menu should have:

a. LFE Level
b. SB Mode (5ch)
c. Re-EQ
d. Front Speaker
e. Center Speaker
f. Surr L/R Sp
g. Surr Bk Speaker
h. Subwoofer

When I navigate through the menus to get to this specific sub-menu, the only options I have are a, b, c, and h. Im guessing if I can get to the center channel control (e.) on this sub-menu, I might be able to fix my problem.

My firmware version is 1.09.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

John


...a lot of menus and sub-menus may have selected entries missing depending on what other menus higher up in the chain are set at. If something is missing, usually something elsewhere
is set such that it eliminates or adds entries in related sub menus. Usually submenus have qualifier statements saying that the particular setting may or may not be available given a certain setting elsewhere. I don't have the manual in front of me to check. I know i got caught once
with a mis-set zone setting that caused some sub menu entries elsewhere to be 'deselected' from screen.

Andy.

JohnnyRose, what do you have under Listening Mode Preset -> i.LINK (IEEE1394):SACD? The default is "SACD", but with some of the other choices it might turn off the center and surround speaker options.

Brian

Ive checked all the other menus and there doesnt seem to be anything that would cause the removal of the options Im looking for. In other cases, the manual clearly states that selecting an option will eliminate other options. In this case there is no such statement.

On both the DVD-A and SACD, I have them set to the defaults of DVD-A and SACD. The speaker options are also missing under DVD-A but I dont have any problem playing DVD-A disks.

My unit came with version 1.9 on it. I did not install it myself.

Thanks

John

First of all, I would say that the ATI 2007 is neutral. I guess that means detailed but not bright.

Raz, you said you calibrated you system to 75 db? After reading the manual trying to figure out a way to help John, I noticed that it mentioned that the tones are set to THX standard which is 82 db. Maybe that is why all your numbers are negative.

John, what do you have b. SB Mode (5ch) set to?

ArtV

JohnnyRose, I remember something about using the Audio SEL button on the remote for multichannel audio over i.Link. Maybe that is why the center speaker won't play. I don't have an i.Link player so I am not able to test it myself.

Brian

The SB Mode (5 ch) is set to "off"

I will check out the remote Audio Select and see what happens.

I just heard from a fellow AVS member who has a 7.1 and DV-79avi. His SACD works fine and he has the same options on the menu as I do (a, b, c, and h).

Thanks

John

I tried the Audio SEL button on the remote and all it does is change the SB 5ch mode through all the options.

I also tried other processing options through the remote and nothing helped.

Im going to head up to Magnolia tomorrow and see if I cant get another 79avi to try out or some other firewire SACD player to see if I can isolate the problem.

John

john,

Just a note.

I'm at 1.08 and 1.01 for i.Link

marty

Marty,

I would hate to think that the more recent f/w version (1.9) is the cause but it wouldnt surprise me one bit.

I spoke to the Magnolia salesman today and he has another 79avi and a Denon 3910/5910 with firewire that I can use to test my 7.1.

Are there any known issues with the Denon firewire players with the 7.1?

Thanks

John

John.

My 3910 plays nice with my RDC 7.1. With the exception of an HDMI extender, my IR has been nice to everything I plugged into it. Other RDC 7.1s have been downright nasty.

I have a theory about the HDMI failures. I tried a self powered booster and it failed. This booster relied on power in the HDMI cable, I then converted the signal to DVI and ran it through a switcher. It also failed when it ran off the power in the DVI cable. When I hooked a power adapter to the switcher, however, it worked. I believe the HDMI switch is not passing the power with the signal and this is causing the HDMI devices to fail.

ArtV

:BUMP:

Anyone seen or hear of whats coming for Firmware 1.10? Is this DV-79 SACD menu a new addition to Pioneer I-Link players?

The latest issue of Perfect Vision has a review of the IR processor, amp, and DVD player.

R

Any news of 'updates', etc. from CES?
Bish

I admit I have not read every post in this thread, but I would appreciate some advice. It seems that at least one poster in this thread has received an upgrade deal on the RDC7 --> 7.1. I have been unable to find out whether there is really a program like this. Two emails to IR have been unanswered and both dealers in my state are completely clueless. Could some please tell me whether there is an upgrade offer to the 7.1 and if so, how do I go about executing it?

I admit I have not read every post in this thread, but I would appreciate some advice. It seems that at least one poster in this thread has received an upgrade deal on the RDC7 --> 7.1. I have been unable to find out whether there is really a program like this. Two emails to IR have been unanswered and both dealers in my state are completely clueless. Could some please tell me whether there is an upgrade offer to the 7.1 and if so, how do I go about executing it?

Yes, there is - was? - a trade-in program. Check your PM for more info.

R

Yes, there is - was? - a trade-in program. Check your PM for more info.

R

Sorry for my ingnorance, what is a "PM"?

Sorry for my ingnorance, what is a "PM"?
Private Message - you should have received an email with a link. It is a way to communuicate with members that doesn't consume forum resources with information that is off-topic or of a private neture.

If anyone's interested here is my amp update: after trying at home the Integra Research RDA-7, the ATI 2007, and the Integra Research RDA-7.1 amps I've decided to keep the RDA-7.1. The Gemstone amp was also on my list of amps to try but the Gemstone is/was backordered.

R

If anyone's interested here is my amp update: after trying at home the Integra Research RDA-7, the ATI 2007, and the Integra Research RDA-7.1 amps I've decided to keep the RDA-7.1. The Gemstone amp was also on my list of amps to try but the Gemstone is/was backordered.

R

FWIW I really like my Gemstone with my RDC 7.1

But I never tried the amps you mentioned.

Any news of 'updates', etc. from CES?
Bish


Seriously - were these yoyo's even at the show?!? As a 7.1 owner I feel entitled to call them yoyo's :);):D

TM

Seriously - were these yoyo's even at the show?!? As a 7.1 owner I feel entitled to call them yoyo's :);):D

TM

I couldn't find O/I/IR at the show.

Yowza. That's . . . disappointing to put it mildly. Still, perhaps better than having a $3k upgrade announced like owners of the D1 did ;)

TM

Did anyone ever find out what the MSRP for the 7.1 and modules is? I saw a reference in this thread about a base price for the 7.1 of $4000 and some module prices for other Onkyo products (not IR though). Is there a price list somewhere for all the IR products? I am considering a near-term purchase and would like to assess the checking account pain beforehand. Thanks very much!

Did anyone ever find out what the MSRP for the 7.1 and modules is? I saw a reference in this thread about a base price for the 7.1 of $4000 and some module prices for other Onkyo products (not IR though). Is there a price list somewhere for all the IR products? I am considering a near-term purchase and would like to assess the checking account pain beforehand. Thanks very much!

Do yourself a favor and wait for the Anthem D2.

All O/I/IR modules are the same. Base is $4K.

From http://www.avrev.com/equip/integradtr10_5/index3.html

CARD MSRP DESCRIPTION
HDMI $300 (2) HDMI in, (1) out
iLINK $200 two (2) iLink inputs
Net-Tune $200 Net-Tune Ethernet in
Multichannel/AES input $150 (1) 7.1 multichannel in, (1) AES/EBU in
Dual 7.1 multichannel $200 (2) 7.1 analog multichannel inputs
RCA Component I/O $100 (1) additional RCA comp in and (1) out
BNC Component video $150 (1) BNC component in, and (1) out

Do yourself a favor and wait for the Anthem D2.

All O/I/IR modules are the same. Base is $4K.

From http://www.avrev.com/equip/integradtr10_5/index3.html

CARD MSRP DESCRIPTION
HDMI $300 (2) HDMI in, (1) out
iLINK $200 two (2) iLink inputs
Net-Tune $200 Net-Tune Ethernet in
Multichannel/AES input $150 (1) 7.1 multichannel in, (1) AES/EBU in
Dual 7.1 multichannel $200 (2) 7.1 analog multichannel inputs
RCA Component I/O $100 (1) additional RCA comp in and (1) out
BNC Component video $150 (1) BNC component in, and (1) out

I appreciate your recommendation, however Anthem burned bridges with me when they renigged on their promise to include iLink on the D1 / D2. I really don't think HDMI is a very good digital audio delivery solution.

Thanks very much for the information on the module costs. I am surprised that the modules are the same across the different companies even though they are all Onkyo derived.

AFAIK the software/firmware is the same too although the RDC7.1 output stage, PSU and addition of the Apogee chip make it somewhat different in the sound quality department.

Do yourself a favor and wait for the Anthem D2.


Don't wait for the D2, I owned both the Anthem D1 and the IR RDC-7.1 and the RDC-7.1 is a much better processor. Not to mention that the D1 is overpriced at $5000 - the D2 will be way overpriced at $8000.

R

I appreciate your recommendation, however Anthem burned bridges with me when they renigged on their promise to include iLink on the D1 / D2. I really don't think HDMI is a very good digital audio delivery solution.

Thanks very much for the information on the module costs. I am surprised that the modules are the same across the different companies even though they are all Onkyo derived.


....go for the RDC7.1, most excellent, a smokin' piece in all departments. :cool:

Thanks very much for the information on the module costs. I am surprised that the modules are the same across the different companies even though they are all Onkyo derived.

They aren't different companies, it just all marketing branding. I've handled the modules outside the unit and they are clearly labeled ONKYO.

I appreciate your recommendation, however Anthem burned bridges with me when they renigged on their promise to include iLink on the D1 / D2. I really don't think HDMI is a very good digital audio delivery solution.

I regrettably bought the RDC-7.1 for several reasons: i.LINK, upgradability and quality. I'm not sure why you don't think HDMI is a very good digital audio delivery solution. The i.LINK works fine but will soon be obsoleted by HDMI 1.2, which passes everything it does. HDMI 1.1 can pass the new HD DVD formats as hi-rez PCM and HDMI 1.3 will pass them natively. HDMI is the future, i.LINK is obsolete. IR has thus far failed on upgradability: no new modules in sight and firmware unavailable for download. The quality is absolutely terrible and support is even worse. Raz is on his fifth unit, I'm on my second and many others have had problems. Problems are often difficult or impossible to reproduce and only occur after units have been on or used for some time. O/I/IR burned bridges with me with their terrible quality and even worse support.

The RDC-7.1 will never support OSD via HDMI or scaling. This is a huge deal and makes the D2 clearly superior. The front panel display on the RDC-7.1 is pitifully small and generally of little value in my day-to-day use. The D1 is widely reviewed to have one of the best sonics and support out there. Anthem's lack of support of i.LINK is a real bummer but the D2's scaling and OSD capabilities more make up for it. Here's a couple of recent posts from Kris Deering that pretty much say it all:

...The only way someone is going to know if they like something is if they audition it themselves, and that audition should be done in their own enviroment with their own equipment AFTER it is properly installed and setup. I've noticed a few people in this thread described the sound of the Anthem as "thin", which is anything but the sound I've obtained from it. I have yet to have anyone come into my room and not be in awe of the Anthem. In fact, just the other day I had a self proclaimed audiophile come by who has been into high end 2-channel for almost as long as I've been alive to audition my room. I played some nice SA-CD and DVD-A pieces for him and he loved them. Then I switched to some CDs he brought over and some of mine and let the Anthem do all the work and he was blown away. He thought the Anthem stereo playback was better than the majority of the high resolution stuff we just listened to. Thin was never a word that came out of his mouth.

So obviously this processor will mesh differently in different enviroments with different equipment. My system is revealing to say the least and I have yet to find a single issue with the Anthem's sonics. Again, if there was even the slightest notion that I wasn't getting phenominal results from it, I would be looking for a replacement. I have absolutely no issues with replacing gear if I feel there is even a chance that I may get more from something else, just ask my wife.

You will always find people that prefer one thing to another, it is the nature of the game. For awhile you could find people that preferred the $500 Panasonic reciever to the top of the line Krell, but that doesn't mean much to me. I've found that a lot of people start to prefer the things they invest in quickly.

Arcam makes great products though and I don't doubt the sonic prowess. When I find something lacking in the Anthem in terms of sonic performance, maybe I'll give them a look.

It conforms to the HDMI 1.1 spec which allows for high resolution multi-channel PCM. Dolby has already stated that this is enough to take FULL advantage of all of their new formats including DD True HD and DTS-HD will be decoded in the players as well to PCM, so YES it will support all of the new audio formats. Something I am sorry to say the Arcam and Lexicon won't.

My RDC-7.1 is now over a year old and I've had no hardware issues at all. The only issue I had was with a couple of minor probs with I-Link compatibility with my Pioneer DVD, these were solved with a firmware update (My Dealer emails me Firmware Updates as required).

The quality is absolutely terrible and support is even worse.

Don't think that Anthem quality is any better. In fact, I would say that it's worse ( the RDC-7.1 build quality is way superior). Both of my D1's were defective: the first one I had had 18 ( !) problems, the second D1 was better but it died after just a few months of usage with smoke coming out of the unit. The Anthem is made in Canada but if you look at the D1 pictures in the D1 brochure you'll see that some parts are made in Malaysia.

R

The front panel display on the RDC-7.1 is pitifully small and generally of little value in my day-to-day use. The D1 is widely reviewed to have one of the best sonics and support out there.

The D1 display is even smaller! As far as sonics go I thought that the D1 sounded horrible in stereo and so-so for movies. I was very happy to get rid of it.

R

Don't think that Anthem quality is any better. In fact, I would say that it's worse ( the RDC-7.1 build quality is way superior). Both of my D1's were defective: the first one I had had 18 ( !) problems, the second D1 was better but it died after just a few months of usage with smoke coming out of the unit. The Anthem is made in Canada but if you look at the D1 pictures in the D1 brochure you'll see that some parts are made in Malaysia.

R

This and the Anthem threads pretty much contradict that position. This thread focuses on problems that keep reappearing and poor factory service. The Anthem thread focuses on exciting features on the way and great factory service. If you had two bad D1s and four bad RDC-7.1s, how does that make Anthem worse? You have something against Malaysia? Most electronic components are manufactured in Asia and continents other than the Americas. Fine products from good people.

The D1 display is even smaller! As far as sonics go I thought that the D1 sounded horrible in stereo and so-so for movies. I was very happy to get rid of it.

R

Display size doesn't matter if you have OSD with HDMI. The RDC-7.1 will never have this capability, the Anthem D2 will. I've heard the D1 and it sounds fine to me, Kris Deering and many others. I'll be very happy to get rid of the RDC-7.1.

My RDC-7.1 is now over a year old and I've had no hardware issues at all. The only issue I had was with a couple of minor probs with I-Link compatibility with my Pioneer DVD, these were solved with a firmware update (My Dealer emails me Firmware Updates as required).

Glad to hear your good fortune and that your dealer provides support; sure wish mine did. That doesn't change the fact that O/I/IR lied about providing internet firmware updates.

If you had two bad D1s and four bad RDC-7.1s, how does that make Anthem worse?

Let's see:

Problems with the RDC-7.1:

1st unit: defective OSD
2nd unit: audio dropouts - fixed with the a software upgrade, the unit was not in fact defective.
3rd unit: DOA
4th unit: the Ch Sel problem - minor, other than that the unit was fine
5th unit: same as 4, IR will fix the Ch Sel bug with the new software upgrade

Out of the 5 units I had only 2 were really defective. 2 out of 5 means 40% were bad.

Problems with the D1:

1st unit: 18 ( !!!) problems, for a list check the old D1 thread, including some major ones
2nd unit: better than the 1st D1 but it still had some problems + the unit died with smoke coming out of it

Two D1's, both defective: 100% failure rate.

R

I've heard the D1 and it sounds fine to me, Kris Deering and many others.

Well, enjoy it then! Make sure you have the fire extinguisher handy though, just in case.

R

Let's see:

Problems with the RDC-7.1:

1st unit: defective OSD
2nd unit: audio dropouts - fixed with the a software upgrade, the unit was not in fact defective.
3rd unit: DOA
4th unit: the Ch Sel problem - minor, other than that the unit was fine
5th unit: same as 4, IR will fix the Ch Sel bug with the new software upgrade

Out of the 5 units I had only 2 were really defective. 2 out of 5 means 40% were bad.

Problems with the D1:

1st unit: 18 ( !!!) problems, for a list check the old D1 thread, including some major ones
2nd unit: better than the 1st D1 but it still had some problems + the unit died with smoke coming out of it

Two D1's, both defective: 100% failure rate.

R

So you are on your fifth unit and it still has problems? A patient man indeed. Of course we will never know if those "minor problem" returned units developed more problems.

Well, enjoy it then! Make sure you have the fire extinguisher handy though, just in case.

R

So how many other posts can you reference of others with the same problem? I haven't seen any which makes me suspect that you had an unfortunate, but isolated failure.

So you are on your fifth unit and it still has problems?

One minor software bug that will be fixed with the next software update.

R

So how many other posts can you reference of others with the same problem? I haven't seen any which makes me suspect that you had an unfortunate, but isolated failure.

You haven't done your homework. Read the several Anthem threads, there are several D1 and AVM30 owners who have had smoking units.

R

One minor software bug that will be fixed with the next software update.

R

When will that be out? How will we know since they no longer post them?

When will that be out? How will we know since they no longer post them?

I don't know when it will be out but my dealer e-mails me all the updates. The 1.09 firmware is very stable except for one minor bug.

R

You haven't done your homework. Read the several Anthem threads, there are several D1 and AVM30 owners who have had smoking units.

R

I can only find two instances of D1 smoking from June of last year and none since:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5718180&&#post5718180
and
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5718999&&#post5718999

both of which were due to the same known problem: "a batch of bad electrolytic capacitors (known issue), each cap in the power supply was replaced and should not happen again."

It also interesting that both had similar things to say about Anthem:
"Customer service for Sonic Frontiers has been excellent"
"Anthem's customer support was FANTASTIC."

Contrast that to the truely horrific O/I/IR support. For example, how long has it been since you reported the problem for which you are awaiting a firmware update?

It also interesting that both had similar things to say about Anthem:
"Customer service for Sonic Frontiers has been excellent"
"Anthem's customer support was FANTASTIC."

Contrast that to the truely horrific O/I/IR support. For example, how long has it been since you reported the problem for which you are awaiting a firmware update?

Oh, the Anthem customer service is outstanding, IR's sucks, no question about that, the only way to deal with IR is through a good dealer. If the IR dealer you got your unit from is no good then you are screwed. On the other hand, I like the RDC-7.1 much more than the D1: better built, sounds much better and, believe it or not, it has fewer problems.

Anyways, I made my point. Enjoy your D1/D2, I hope that you will like it.

R

Raz,unfortunately your experience with most prepros and amps that you have owned is legendary and does not represent the experience of most owners with the same brands as yours.One therefore has to take your comments with a pinch of salt.
I myself own a D1 and have never had any problems with it,and yes it sounds warm and wonderful with both 2 channel music and movies-in my fully untreated basement.
Cheers
Jossix

Let's see:

Problems with the RDC-7.1:

1st unit: defective OSD
2nd unit: audio dropouts - fixed with the a software upgrade, the unit was not in fact defective.
3rd unit: DOA
4th unit: the Ch Sel problem - minor, other than that the unit was fine
5th unit: same as 4, IR will fix the Ch Sel bug with the new software upgrade

Out of the 5 units I had only 2 were really defective. 2 out of 5 means 40% were bad.

Problems with the D1:

1st unit: 18 ( !!!) problems, for a list check the old D1 thread, including some major ones
2nd unit: better than the 1st D1 but it still had some problems + the unit died with smoke coming out of it

Two D1's, both defective: 100% failure rate.

R


To be fair, you should have gone the 3 more D1's to equal the amount of RDC-7.1's that you've been through so far. Plus the D1 that blew out a capacitor was no longer in your possession when it blew up, because you sold it, and is the only one that equals a DOA unit. So that really only put's them only at a 50% failure rate and not 100%

And as jossix said, you are probably not one of the best people to ask about either brand anymore. If one goes back to the very first of the D1 threads, where you were, griping, joking, bitching, frustration, but still liking and even giving it praise at time, and then soon back to griping and frustration. And all the while, where you also were even criticizing I/R pretty hard back then.... Then low and behold, one day you up and announced that you sold the D1 and had got yourself a RDC-7.1. And sure enough, the troubles with that also soon started, but strangely how now you are more willing to put up with them, and now you like to gripe about the previous brand you had, even though you new one has had more than just a few of their own problems.

Plus the D1 that blew out a capacitor was no longer in your possession when it blew up, because you sold it, and is the only one that equals a DOA unit. So that really only put's them only at a 50% failure rate and not 100%


I disagree with your math, it's a 100% failure rate.

R

I disagree with your math, it's a 100% failure rate.

R

Did both fail while you owned them? No, one did not. One failed after you sold it. Besides, I disagree with about 98% of the bitching that you have made between the two brands over the past year+. For anyone looking at this from the side, you really pretty much make them both out to be just pure junk.

And as jossix said, you are probably not one of the best people to ask about either brand anymore.

Why not? I'm one of the very few people here who have been totally honest about the problems I have been having with my units. I expect a $5000 processor to be perfect, if it's not perfect then you'll be the first to know.

As far as Anthem vs IR goes, my experience is that Anthem has great technical support but makes crappy sounding and overpriced processors while IR has horrible customer service but makes good sounding units.

R

Did both fail while you owned them? No, one did not. One failed after you sold it.

So what, it would have failed anyway.

R

For anyone looking at this from the side, you really pretty much make them both out to be just pure junk.

Maybe they are junk. Their quality control certainly is.

R

To be fair, you should have gone the 3 more D1's to equal the amount of RDC-7.1's that you've been through so far.

I like your sense of humor.

R

Hey Raz,

Whats the prob you have with 1.09?

Ive got to admit that Integra did fix the Streaming DTS problem after I told my dealer how to replicate it and to complain. I did the same thing with my Pioneer AX10I (47TXI in US) that I had before the Integra, Pioneer recognised the problem and politely told me that it wasnt worth fixing. Integra does heavily favour dealers but then again that is one of the main theoretical brand differences between Onkyo and Integra, make sure you get a decent Integra dealer otherwise you'll be treated like an Onkyo customer (Who are treated like Pioneer and Denon customers).

Hey Raz,

Whats the prob you have with 1.09?

Ive got to admit that Integra did fix the Streaming DTS problem after I told my dealer how to replicate it and to complain.

I'm talking about the input switching problem when using the Ch Sel button on the remote. It's highly intermittent but according to our dealer IR Japan has been able to duplicate it.

IR also fixed the audio dropouts problem when I complained to our dealer about it.

R

Check out the link below for some nice pics ( note the German prices for the units):

http://www.areadvd.de/news/2005/IFA_2005/integra_cr_1.shtml

R

I just thought I would post the passing of my relationship with this company. I bought the original RDC-7 not long after its appearance because I felt (as many others) that its performance/cost ratio was very high. Even now, I have no gripes with its performance. Like many others, I waited to hear concrete news of an upgrade offer. For months I tried in vain to find out if there really was an upgrade program. Three emails to the company went unanswered. The dealer I bought the unit from dropped IR (now I know why). Of the other two authorized dealers in my state, one only had a vague notion that he was, in fact, a dealer. When I asked him if he ever sold a piece of IR gear, he said no. The other "dealer" must have been a custom installer, not an actual store; I only got an answering machine and didn't get an answer to my voice request for a phone call. One of this forum's members was kind enough to PM me the name of a dealer in another state. After four days trying to reach him, I finally got a call and was told that the upgrade offer ended Dec. 31, 2005. From my 25 years in high end audio (and now video) I have to say that this company sucks. I don't even think this company exists as a distinct entity; I think there is some guy at Onkyo who has the title of Mr. Integra Research. Yes, there is a talented group of engineers in Onkyo/Integra who can make a very competent product, but that does not justify this complete lack of customer support. So, today I bought a Lexicon MC-12 from my local Lexicon dealer. This is a company with both legendary performance AND customer support. Did I spend more than I would have on a RDC-7.1? Yes, but I will never have to worry about whether there will be an upgrade and whether I will get a fair deal on it.

gladelson,
Now you only have to worry about how long it'll take Lexicon to release an HDMI switching solution ;) Sorry couldn't resist :D

Seriously though - as this experience shows, no mfr is perfect. You get a company like Anthem which has great customer service and support, fine products (though questionable QC), and is late (seemingly again and again) with upgrades. Or Lex - good support, phenomenal track record of (fairly priced) upgrades, great products, and a not quite up to date feature set - on top of a super premium price point. Or IR - awful support, nice products, decent QC (anecdotally, problems seem to be more of the niggling annoyances rather than the DOA variety though there are those too), and spotty upgrade record.

No one is perfect. Just pick your poison.

TM

No one is perfect. Just pick your poison.
My observation - and personal experience - is that people don't "go to" another manufacturer for a positive experience as much as they are "pushed" there by a negative experience with their present manufacturer. This is probably more true in the "middle" where prices, performance and expectations are starting to climb - along with the sensitivity and criticality of the users. Low-end is inexpensive, typically owned by the less finicky with no great expectations. The nose-bleed high-end has high performance, high expectations and prices that afford the chain to provide service that exceeds expectations. Need a new unit because you don't like the way a knob turns? Yessirree, Mr. Moneybags!

Just my $.02 worth of generalization.

FYI there's a used RDA-7 amp on Audiogon for $1500 obo. Great price for a great amp ( MSRP $5000).

R

For those of you speculating about IR as a "company"...in the U.S. Onkyo, Integra and IR are the various brands that Onkyo USA distributes as you know. Behind the doors, Onkyo and Integra/IR share many backoffice functions such as the accounting, order processing, support, etc. There are separate marketing teams, along with product planning. Integra and Integra Research are handled as a single entity, but have different dealer franchises. So a dealer must be apply separately to be an Integra and/or IR dealer.

Also, with respect to forthcoming modules for the card-based product (yes, the modules are all the same across the three product lines, but the Onkyo version is not "Build-to-Order", it's a fixed configuration as shipped):

The following three modules are expected in the Summer-early Fall timeframe:

HDMI 1.2 card (don't know how many ports)
AM/FM/XM tuner card
AM/FM/HD Radio tuner card

For the tuner card you must remove your existing AM/FM tuner card and replace it with the new one.

I don't know what other card(s) may be on the way, but I have heard of a couple of others that they are considering.

They are also still working on the Windows configuration application which was sent back to Japan due to "inadequacies." (read Buggy) They are also supposed to offer firmware upgradability over the Net-Tune ethernet connection as well.

Integra will be shipping the kewl new Integra Integrated Media Center (a Windows Media Center 2005-based HTPC with the Intel VIIV platform for about $4k) in the March-April timeframe. This was shown at the Intel and Dolby booths at CES.

Onkyo/Integra/IR do not have booths at CES. CEDIA Expo only (Integra/IR)

Eric

The following three modules are expected in the Summer-early Fall timeframe:

HDMI 1.2 card (don't know how many ports)
AM/FM/XM tuner card
AM/FM/HD Radio tuner card


I myself will not get any of the modules above. The present HDMI module + the i-Link module do everything the HDMI 1.2 card will do. I don't care about HD or XM radio - I prefer Sirius.

The new module I'm interested in - if ever released - is the one that will handle the new Dolby Digital and DTS formats.

R

For those of you speculating about IR as a "company"...in the U.S. Onkyo, Integra and IR are the various brands that Onkyo USA distributes as you know. Behind the doors, Onkyo and Integra/IR share many backoffice functions such as the accounting, order processing, support, etc. There are separate marketing teams, along with product planning. Integra and Integra Research are handled as a single entity, but have different dealer franchises. So a dealer must be apply separately to be an Integra and/or IR dealer.

Also, with respect to forthcoming modules for the card-based product (yes, the modules are all the same across the three product lines, but the Onkyo version is not "Build-to-Order", it's a fixed configuration as shipped):

The following three modules are expected in the Summer-early Fall timeframe:

HDMI 1.2 card (don't know how many ports)
AM/FM/XM tuner card
AM/FM/HD Radio tuner card

For the tuner card you must remove your existing AM/FM tuner card and replace it with the new one.

I don't know what other card(s) may be on the way, but I have heard of a couple of others that they are considering.

They are also still working on the Windows configuration application which was sent back to Japan due to "inadequacies." (read Buggy) They are also supposed to offer firmware upgradability over the Net-Tune ethernet connection as well.

Integra will be shipping the kewl new Integra Integrated Media Center (a Windows Media Center 2005-based HTPC with the Intel VIIV platform for about $4k) in the March-April timeframe. This was shown at the Intel and Dolby booths at CES.

Onkyo/Integra/IR do not have booths at CES. CEDIA Expo only (Integra/IR)

Eric

Thanks for the update. Any chance that the new HDMI 1.2 module will support overlay display of volume level, etc. The current module only displays set up screens, not overlay.

I myself will not get any of the modules above. The present HDMI module + the i-Link module do everything the HDMI 1.2 card will do. I don't care about HD or XM radio - I prefer Sirius.

The new module I'm interested in - if ever released - is the one that will handle the new Dolby Digital and DTS formats.

R

The new DD & DTS formats will be decoded in the BD/HD DVD players to hi-rez multichannel PCM and passed through HDMI version 1.1 and beyond. HDMI 1.3 will pass the new DD & DTS formats natively. It remains to be seen whether the RDC-7.1 base hardware can support either scenario with the corresponding firmware upgrade.

HDMI 1.3 will pass the new DD & DTS formats natively. It remains to be seen whether the RDC-7.1 base hardware can support either scenario with the corresponding firmware upgrade.

HDMI 1.3 is what I'm really interested in then, don't care about 1.2 at all.

R

HDMI 1.3 is what I'm really interested in then, don't care about 1.2 at all.

R


A caveat about the various revs of the HDMI spec. Just because a product is stated to be at a particular revision of the spec does not mean that it supports ALL of the features that the spec permits. It's up to the vendor to decide what features to provide. This per the HDMI organization themselves. Caveat Emptor.

Eric

Hey, I've got an idea; let's design a next generation digital A/V interface, complete with detailed physical and electrical specifications and let licensees pick and choose which parts they want to implement. AND, we'll calll it a "STANDARD."

Al in favor, say "AYE."

:eek:

Any chance that the new HDMI 1.2 module will support overlay display of volume level, etc. The current module only displays set up screens, not overlay.

Not a chance, unless they also add a HD-capable image processor, which is highly unlikely. I specifically asked this question at CEDIA and was told that it wasn't capable and there were no plans. Apparently, the setup screens really aren't HD overlays, just SD signals sent to the video output. I'm guess if video were passed in this method, it would look terrible.

Only boxes that can do overlay on HD signals are ones with built-in image processor, such as the yet-to-be-released Anthem D2.

My observation - and personal experience - is that people don't "go to" another manufacturer for a positive experience as much as they are "pushed" there by a negative experience with their present manufacturer.


i think there's that, but I think there's also tons of "grass is greener" syndrome in this hobby, so there's probably as much pull as push going on.

BTW egcarter thanks for the 411, keep it coming!

Best,
TM

Hey, I've got an idea; let's design a next generation digital A/V interface, complete with detailed physical and electrical specifications and let licensees pick and choose which parts they want to implement. AND, we'll calll it a "STANDARD."

Al in favor, say "AYE."

:eek:


My favorite example of this is the fact that source component manufacturers have the option, at their sole discretion apparently, as to whether or not the HDMI output will function through a switcher. If they don't, then you get major HDCP handshake issues. Cable STBs are notoriously bad in this regard (this means YOU Scientific Atlanta! :mad: :mad: )

Such a shame - way to get a great opportunity off to a piss poor start. And don't even get me started on the physical connector...

TM

Such a shame - way to get a great opportunity off to a piss poor start. And don't even get me started on the physical connector...

I *think* you already are, TM, don't stop now. :)

Okay, I'm sure this is a dumb question, but are Integra Research and Integra two different companies? I know Integra is the high-end line for Onkyo, but in looking at their web sites, (integraresearch.com and integrahometheater.com), the nomenclature for the model lines and even the badging look nearly identical.

Any help here would be appreciated!

Okay, I'm sure this is a dumb question, but are Integra Research and Integra two different companies? I know Integra is the high-end line for Onkyo, but in looking at their web sites, (integraresearch.com and integrahometheater.com), the nomenclature for the model lines and even the badging look nearly identical.

Any help here would be appreciated!
Integra is the high end line for Onkyo and Integra Research is the high end line for Integra. :)

Crème de la crème, as it were.

Okay, I'm sure this is a dumb question, but are Integra Research and Integra two different companies? I know Integra is the high-end line for Onkyo, but in looking at their web sites, (integraresearch.com and integrahometheater.com), the nomenclature for the model lines and even the badging look nearly identical.

Any help here would be appreciated!


The company is ONKYO. They have three separate product families that they distribute in the US. (More in some overseas regions, like Japan).

Onkyo is the mass market line, Integra is the limited-distribution line with a custom installation focus. Integra Research is the hoity-toity high end VERY limited distirbution line. IR features technology that was acquired with Apogee Electronics and Balanced Audio Technology, in addition to the good ol' Onkyo stuff.
But they are all basically the same design across the families. Integra and IR feature better warranties and some higher-grade components as well.

Eric

FYI a used RDC-7 in excellent condition just sold on ebay for $1260, that's a pretty low price. There is also a used RDA-7 amp selling on Audiogon for $1500 obo, it seems that the resale value of the older IR units has hit an all time low.

R

$1500 for an RDA-7 is very good deal. There isnt a big difference between the RDA-7 & RDA-7.1.

$1500 for an RDA-7 is very good deal. There isnt a big difference between the RDA-7 & RDA-7.1.

I had the RDA-7 to try at home and it's a fantastic amp. I also tried the ATI 2007 and the RDA-7.1 amps and IMO the IR units are clearly better, I don't know why the resale value of the RDA-7 is so low, after all it's a BAT amp, it should sell for much more.

R

FYI a used RDC-7 in excellent condition just sold on ebay for $1260, that's a pretty low price. There is also a used RDA-7 amp selling on Audiogon for $1500 obo, it seems that the resale value of the older IR units has hit an all time low.

R
I'll go home after work and listen to my RDC-7, but I'm pretty sure it's gonna sound just as good as it did yesterday before I read this. :)

I haven't heard much lately about a couple issues my 7.1 has. Just wondering if new firmware upgrades or anything will fix them.
First is a delay on some channels when changing volume. This seems to vary, even which channels delay and how much. Kinda irratating.

Second is the click or pop sound using balanced connectors when changing sources or surround modes. This was so annoying I went back to RCA connections.

I love the unit otherwise, and would hope I don't need to swap it out to get these things fixed. Thanks for all the info out there. Raz, I trust Jason can help me out if it needs to be swapped out?

First is a delay on some channels when changing volume. This seems to vary, even which channels delay and how much. Kinda irratating.


I'm not sure I understand what the problem is, could you elaborate?

R

Second is the click or pop sound using balanced connectors when changing sources or surround modes. This was so annoying I went back to RCA connections.

Most, if not all, RDC-7.1's have this problem, mine has it too. In my case I noticed that it helped a lot if I repositioned the XLR cables, move them around a little and see if that helps. I also put ferrite cores on each cable and now the popping sound is very faint, I barely notice it.

R

I haven't heard much lately about a couple issues my 7.1 has. Just wondering if new firmware upgrades or anything will fix them.
First is a delay on some channels when changing volume. This seems to vary, even which channels delay and how much. Kinda irratating.

I had a similar problem with my first unit. Others have reported similar problems. After being plugged-in for >24hrs the OSD volume bar would change but the actual sound level from the center channel would not occur for ~10 seconds. This problem grew worse over time. An easy way to demonstrate the problem was to use the calibration sounds and switch between channels. The problem could be temporarily resolved by unplugging the power for at least 5 minutes. Sometimes unplugging wasn't enough, and a reset was necessary. Firmware will not resolve this problem, it is a hardware problem. In my case it grew much worse over time. You should replace the unit.

Second is the click or pop sound using balanced connectors when changing sources or surround modes. This was so annoying I went back to RCA connections.

My second unit isn't as bad as my first, but it still clicks and pops. This is a design flaw that I doubt will be resolved.

After being plugged-in for >24hrs

I'm not sure what you're saying - you mean after being on for >24hrs?

R

I'm not sure what you're saying - you mean after being on for >24hrs?

R

Plugged-in and on or standby.

Plugged-in and on or standby.

None of my RDC-7.1's had this problem.

R

Several RDC-7.1 owners are using the ATI 2007 amp with their processors and are happy with the combo. If any other RDC-7.1 owners are interested in the ATI 2007 amp then, FYI, the new Outlaw 7700 is basically the same amp as the ATI 2007 and sells for $1000 less.

R

Raz,

The volume problem is that as you turn the volume up or down with the remote or the knob, the sound level on the different channels lags significantly, several to tens of seconds, and it seems random as to the length of the delay of the sound level change, and which channel lags by how much. It does not seem to be getting worse, but it is very annoying.

Could you elaborate on your balanced cable solution? Did you post a more complete explanation, or have a link to some info that shows what you did, and what parts needed? Thanks a bunch.

Any chance of getting the new software update? I'm hopeful a refresh may help.

Several RDC-7.1 owners are using the ATI 2007 amp with their processors and are happy with the combo. If any other RDC-7.1 owners are interested in the ATI 2007 amp then, FYI, the new Outlaw 7700 is basically the same amp as the ATI 2007 and sells for $1000 less.

R
Isn't that also true with the ATI2007 vis-a-vis a BAT amp - basically the same amp for $1000 less?

Isn't that also true with the ATI2007 vis-a-vis a BAT amp - basically the same amp for $1000 less?

Nope, the RDA-7.1 amp is a BAT amp, not an ATI amp. The RDA-7.1 - $5000 - was designed by Viktor Khomenko from BAT, the ATI and Outlaw amps are designed by ATI. The RDA-7.1 is the little brother of the BAT VK-6200.

R

The volume problem is that as you turn the volume up or down with the remote or the knob, the sound level on the different channels lags significantly, several to tens of seconds, and it seems random as to the length of the delay of the sound level change, and which channel lags by how much. It does not seem to be getting worse, but it is very annoying.


Gimp and EvanS had the same problem and IR replaced their units. I think that it is a hardware problem and not a software problem.

R

Could you elaborate on your balanced cable solution? Did you post a more complete explanation, or have a link to some info that shows what you did, and what parts needed? Thanks a bunch.

I attached a ferrite core on each XLR cable, 7 in total, one for each cable. I used ferrite cores similar to the one below:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=110-450

R

Nope, the RDA-7.1 amp is a BAT amp, not an ATI amp. The RDA-7.1 - $5000 - was designed by Viktor Khomenko from BAT, the ATI and Outlaw amps are designed by ATI.

R
ATI2007 and RDA-7.1 - sonically similar?

ATI2007 and RDA-7.1 - sonically similar?

No, the RDA-7.1 is warmer sounding than the ATI.

R

I unfortunately did experience a similar issue with my second unit, where the volume level would change in the center channel speaker after a considerable delay. I have now been without my unit for two months. What exactly is taking so long is beyond my comprehension. This becomes even less acceptable when I think about the four months I waited for them to take action to resolve my issues. They never did. I finally just got tired of waiting and dropped the unit off. With 2020 hindsight, I now realize I never should have believed they would take responsibility (as they promised they would), and I should have dropped the unit off the day after I picked it up and realized it was defective.

I still really love the features and the sonics of this processor. However, I am so incredibly fatigued by this long journey of trying to get one that actually works. It's like dating a supermodel who suffers from schizophrenia. I can't decide if its worth it in the end. We'll see what happens when I finally received my third unit (my first unit worked perfectly except for the HDMI card).

Raz, I'm sorry you did not like the ATI2007 better, sorry to give you a disappointing referral (I still enjoy mine). I continue to have wet dreams about a McIntosh 402, although I become increasingly more interested in the soon-to-be released upgraded version of the Nuforce Reference 9.

Evan

. . the two ATI 2007 amps I tried sounded so different from each other . . . I noticed a difference in sound with the 3 RDA-7.1's I had too. Not to mention that both the ATI and RDA-7.1 units had some build quality issues too.
WTF is going on? Is the mid high-end falling apart? Will we be left with only pedestrian, lowest common denominator stuff along with nose-bleed, ridiculously priced gear? :(

I guess it would be too much to hope that people close to the top of these companies, or at least have the ears of someone close to the top, follow the relevant AVS threads.

Jose no longer responds to my emails - perhaps he's no longer there. My two recent emails to IR from their website have gone un-answered. And I died on hold trying to get to a human at O/I/IR's NJ number. Fortunately for me, I'm not having any problems - if you don't consider wondering where the much-discussed and long-awaited IEEE1394 upgrade to the RDC-7 is a problem.

There's a touch of the absurd in all of this. I feel like I'm in a variation of Beckett's Waiting for Godot; I keep reaching out never knowing if anyone is even there. Or worse, they ARE there, and they're ROTF. What does it all mean? :confused:

Were any conclusions reached on whether the RDC-7.1 does upsampling or not? Does anyone know how to turn this feature on/off or is it always on? I just received my 7.1 and can't really determine if I am getting upsampling of my digital audio sources or not. Thanks in advance.