Originally posted by imimmortl
I bought a B&W G3 before reading that it had issues running VirtualDVHS. After taking out the internal Firewire card and replacing it with another PCI firewire card I can say that VirtualDVHS does not run in a B&W G3 350mhz box. Everytime I attempted to run it I would get a kernal panic. So, I am now looking for a replacement machine to accomplish capturing from my Motorola 6200. Do the G4 Powermacs (done in a similar style as my B&W G3) work with this setup? If I went with an older mac to accomplish this, which one would be the easiest to upgrade the Hard Drive/Memory.

Thanks for any help/suggestions,
imimmortl Any G4 with AGP graphics should work. I've used a G4/400 with good results. I would avoid the PCI graphics G4 (350Mhz and 400Mhz) as that also had a firewire add-on card like the B/W and may exhibit the same problem. The AGP models and newer all have onboard Firewire.

Originally posted by rcliff
Any G4 with AGP graphics should work. I've used a G4/400 with good results. I would avoid the PCI graphics G4 (350Mhz and 400Mhz) as that also had a firewire add-on card like the B/W and may exhibit the same problem. The AGP models and newer all have onboard Firewire.
Thanks for the reply rcliff. I'm currently looking at a G4 350Mhz, you said the safest bet would be to stick with G4's with AGP graphics on them. You also said you have a G4/400. Do some of the 350's have AGP graphics?

The G4 350 was built in both the PCI and AGP varieties. A quick search on google turned up this link regarding the various G4 specs that you may find useful.

http://eshop.macsales.com/Tech/Load_Page.cfm?page=g4models/index.html

I've gotten this working on an *old* beige g3/266 minitower. Had to add PCI USB and PCI firewire to make OSX happy (and use XpostFacto to get it installed) but it's working pretty much flawlessly.

(knock on wood)

The only hitch I've run into is that Applescript (via iCal) apparently kills the machine if it runs while you have an open VNC session.

I did rewrite the scripts so they work with the "modified" AV/C Browser, though, as it is easier to deal with all aspects of 6200 recording w/the one app.

No need to deal with loading avc browser, THEN virtualdvhs ... and it has the ability to send firewire as well, so you can channel change too.

I channel change at 2mins before, startup the recording at 1min til, and it's been pretty reliable so far (been ripping InHD and InHD2 for Asia Noir and Twilight Zone)

- litz

Originally posted by rcliff
I just picked up a Roku HD1000 locally. I've got pretty high expectations for playback with this thing. I'll report back later with initial results.

I wouldn't set them too high :) I really like my Roku, both to use and develop on, and have high expectations over time, but I would categorize it as a marginally functional transport and program stream solution at the moment. Development seems pretty stalled while Roku has been working on getting the Soundbridge out. I still think it is a good value since the price drop, and like I said, I really like it and never thought of returning it.

If you have any programming skills, submit an entry in their programming contest by the end of June for a free art pack :D You don't have to win the contest, just enter something.

Thanks kaadray. I'll tone down my expectations a bit. At the $300 price point, it seems like it will be a pretty cool box to have regardless with much future potential. I haven't gotten mine fully up and running yet because I ran into a glitch trying to assign a static IP. I can telnet in and found the ethernet config file but it doesn't seem to have text editors like emacs or pico. Vi is there but it doesn't seem to work right. I then figured I could edit the file via FTP with BBedit but FTP connections are refused. I think I'll head over the the roku mailing lists archives.

I received a SA 3250HD from Bright House Networks yesterday. I successfully recorded via firewire into my Mac G5 dual 1.8 and then played back the recordings in VLC. I recorded a sample of every HD channel for testing purposes but when playing back in VLC only the channels flagged for "copy always" would play. All channels flagged "copy once" are prevented from playback.

Is this it? game over due to the copy protection?

Other observations:

No audio with VLC on panther (known issue) but the file played fine in VLC with a PC.
I did need to connect manually with AVC browser.
The channel number was 0.
I had to turn on OpenGL in the VLC OSX module to achieve smooth 1080i playback.

Thanks to all in this thread that made the process almost turn key.

Hello,

Here is an AppleScript using kaadray's modified AVCBrowser. For the AppleScript to work, do not change the name of the modified AVCBrowser in Finder. To avoid confusion, you will have to change the name of the original AVCBrowser if it is in the Application folder. These scripts are set up for the DCT-6200.

This one launches, records on channel 6 and then launches VLC to view what is being recorded. The script can be customized and/or used as a template for other scripts for what you want to accomplish.

tell application "AVCBrowser" to activate
-- may not need to activate application

tell application "System Events"
if (system attribute "sysv") < 4144 or UI elements enabled then
tell application process "AVCBrowser"
-- place script statements here,
-- omitting 'of application process "<name>"'

key code 48 -- forward tab Key

key code 125 -- down arrow Key
delay 5

click button "Open Device Controller" of window "AV/C Devices"
end tell
else
tell application "System Preferences"
activate
set current pane to pane "com.apple.preference.universalaccess"
beep
display dialog "GUI Scripting is not enabled." & return & return & "Check \"Enable access for assistive devices\" in the Universal Access preference pane (authentication is required), then run this script again." with icon stop buttons {"OK"} default button "OK"
end tell
end if
end tell




tell application "AVCBrowser" to activate
-- may not need to activate application

tell application "System Events"
if (system attribute "sysv") < 4144 or UI elements enabled then
tell application process "AVCBrowser"
-- place script statements here,
-- omitting 'of application process "<name>"'
click button "Connect" of window "AV/C Device: DCT-6200"
delay 1
set value of text field 1 of group 2 of window "AV/C Device: DCT-6200" to "6"
delay 1

click button "Tune" of group 2 of window "AV/C Device: DCT-6200"

delay 1

click button "Record" of group 1 of window "AV/C Device: DCT-6200"

end tell
else
tell application "System Preferences"
activate
set current pane to pane "com.apple.preference.universalaccess"
beep
display dialog "GUI Scripting is not enabled." & return & return & "Check \"Enable access for assistive devices\" in the Universal Access preference pane (authentication is required), then run this script again." with icon stop buttons {"OK"} default button "OK"
end tell
end if
end tell

tell application "Finder" to activate
-- may not need to activate application

tell application "System Events"
if (system attribute "sysv") < 4144 or UI elements enabled then
tell application process "Finder"
-- place script statements here,
-- omitting 'of application process "<name>"'

open "MOBILE HD3A:DVHS"

delay 10
perform action "AXOpenAction" of last UI element of group 2 of group 2 of splitter group 1 of window "DVHS"


end tell
else
tell application "System Preferences"
activate
set current pane to pane "com.apple.preference.universalaccess"
beep
display dialog "GUI Scripting is not enabled." & return & return & "Check \"Enable access for assistive devices\" in the Universal Access preference pane (authentication is required), then run this script again." with icon stop buttons {"OK"} default button "OK"
end tell
end if
end tell





Notes: Do not check the box to "open device when when launched." This script tunes to channel 6. You can make other scripts using this script as a template for other channels.

This script will also try to launch VLC to play the file about 15 seconds or so after it started recording. You will need to first associate .m2t files with VLC if you have not done so already to make this work.

In the script above, the folder is found in path "MOBILE HD3A:DVHS" which you can change to whatever path you are using. To open the file, you will need to set up the View for the folder window as Column in Finder and have the ultimate subfolder titled: "DVHS" or make the appropriate change in the script to match your ultimate subfolder.

If you do not want to record and view, then you can eliminate second "tell block" using the Finder application.

Below is the code to stop:





tell application "AVCBrowser" to activate
-- may not need to activate application

tell application "System Events"
if (system attribute "sysv") < 4144 or UI elements enabled then
tell application process "AVCBrowser"
-- place script statements here,
-- omitting 'of application process "<name>"'

click button "Stop" of group 1 of window "AV/C Device: DCT-6200"

end tell
else
tell application "System Preferences"
activate
set current pane to pane "com.apple.preference.universalaccess"
beep
display dialog "GUI Scripting is not enabled." & return & return & "Check \"Enable access for assistive devices\" in the Universal Access preference pane (authentication is required), then run this script again." with icon stop buttons {"OK"} default button "OK"
end tell
end if
end tell



The code to stop and quit:

tell application "AVCBrowser" to activate
-- may not need to activate application

tell application "System Events"
if (system attribute "sysv") < 4144 or UI elements enabled then
tell application process "AVCBrowser"
-- place script statements here,
-- omitting 'of application process "<name>"'

click button "Stop" of group 1 of window "AV/C Device: DCT-6200"

end tell
else
tell application "System Preferences"
activate
set current pane to pane "com.apple.preference.universalaccess"
beep
display dialog "GUI Scripting is not enabled." & return & return & "Check \"Enable access for assistive devices\" in the Universal Access preference pane (authentication is required), then run this script again." with icon stop buttons {"OK"} default button "OK"
end tell
end if
end tell

delay 5

tell application "AVCBrowser" to quit

Getting back on my experience, along with a couple of questions...

After getting a SA3250 w/o active firewire, I went through the CSR merry-go-round and received an active box this morning. Relevant version numbers as follows:
as of 5/7/04
OS HD Edition 1.2
Flash: 1.56.4.1
OS 3.8.2.1
SARA v1.56.4.1
Pkey_3.5.20.130-p. 16:40:34 Nov 10 2003
HAL Driver 2.2.1.2
ATI Driver 1.2.15.110
PHAL Driver 3.4.11.0
Smilp v4.1.1.7
firebus 2.5.7.1
fbdtcp 2.5.3.1
I was able to record on a PowerBook G3 (Lombard/1999/Bronze) with a FireWire CardBus card. I wonder if I'm dropping any frames.... Anyone know how to check that?

Regardless, as expected, only the digital channels are output over the FireWire bus.

I am unclear as to the interaction between the AVCBrowser and the DVHS Recorder applications. I didn't seem to be able to record without the AVCBrowser application running. Can anyone give me a run-down on how these apps interact? The way I understand it now is:

0) Connect Mac and cable box, tune to desired channel.
1) Launch AVCBrowser (Enhanced v.0.3.1) & choose, open device connection.
2) Launch Virtual DVHS
3) Record as needed
4) Playback w/VLC 0.7.2-test2

Does anyone have any ideas about sending the recording stream over a network? I have a large RAID volume available to me via Windows SMB connections. What kind of bandwidth will I need to send the raw file to the server? I'm assuming that 802.11b won't be enough....

Finally, VLC doesn't playback very well at all on my machine (as expected with a 400MHz G3). Are the m2t files cross-platform? Can I play them back on my Windows2000 HTPC? What about recording directly to the Windows machine. Any pointers to other threads or knowledge would be greatly appreciated! :)

Best,
Brad

Originally posted by bspachman
Getting back on my experience, along with a couple of questions...

After getting a SA3250 w/o active firewire, I went through the CSR merry-go-round and received an active box this morning. Relevant version numbers as follows:
as of 5/7/04
OS HD Edition 1.2
Flash: 1.56.4.1
OS 3.8.2.1
SARA v1.56.4.1
Pkey_3.5.20.130-p. 16:40:34 Nov 10 2003
HAL Driver 2.2.1.2
ATI Driver 1.2.15.110
PHAL Driver 3.4.11.0
Smilp v4.1.1.7
firebus 2.5.7.1
fbdtcp 2.5.3.1
I was able to record on a PowerBook G3 (Lombard/1999/Bronze) with a FireWire CardBus card. I wonder if I'm dropping any frames.... Anyone know how to check that?

Regardless, as expected, only the digital channels are output over the FireWire bus.

I am unclear as to the interaction between the AVCBrowser and the DVHS Recorder applications. I didn't seem to be able to record without the AVCBrowser application running. Can anyone give me a run-down on how these apps interact? The way I understand it now is:

0) Connect Mac and cable box, tune to desired channel.
1) Launch AVCBrowser (Enhanced v.0.3.1) & choose, open device connection.
2) Launch Virtual DVHS
3) Record as needed
4) Playback w/VLC 0.7.2-test2

Does anyone have any ideas about sending the recording stream over a network? I have a large RAID volume available to me via Windows SMB connections. What kind of bandwidth will I need to send the raw file to the server? I'm assuming that 802.11b won't be enough....

Finally, VLC doesn't playback very well at all on my machine (as expected with a 400MHz G3). Are the m2t files cross-platform? Can I play them back on my Windows2000 HTPC? What about recording directly to the Windows machine. Any pointers to other threads or knowledge would be greatly appreciated! :)

Best,
Brad

Do not use VirtualDVHS if you are using kaadray's modified AVCBrowser.

Use the scripts posted above for timed recording. You will need to replace the "DCT-6200" with the text for your STB as identified in the title of the second window of kaadray's AVCBrowser. Make sure that the original AVCBrowser app is not in your Applications folder but that kaadray's modified AVCBrowser is.

You will need to remove the following code from the record script since the channels on the SA boxes cannot be presently changed over Firewire.

set value of text field 1 of group 2 of window "AV/C Device: DCT-6200" to "6"
delay 1
click button "Tune" of group 2 of window "AV/C Device: DCT-6200"
delay 1

VLC for Windows can play .m2t files. So can the MyHD card.

Originally posted by Killroy
[B]Brad,

Are you able to record the premium channels??? (HBO/SHO/MAX/Starz)...
I don't currently recevie any of the premium channels. If it would help, let me know which diagnostic screen has the readout you want and I'll check anyway...

Also check your input channel on the AVCBrowser and tell me if there is an input/output channel.
AV/C Device--
Name: Explorer(r) 3250HD
Type: Type-5
GUID: xxxxxxxxxxxxx [my obscurity]
In: 400
Out: 400
#in: 0
#out: 1
Out Base 63

Open Device Controller--
Input Plugs: n/a
Output Plugs--
Channel: 0
Rate: S400

Best,
Brad

Originally posted by Killroy
If you can, can you do me a favor and check your diagnostic menu and see if the premium channels are marked as "Copy once" or "Copy freely". Also check your input channel on the AVCBrowser and tell me if there is an input/output channel.

My 3250HD is active but I cannot capp anything to my Mac as AVC browser does not even show an input channel for the 3250. I can see an output channel put nothing comes in....

Killroy,

You should only see an output channel for the 3250 in the device controller. Hit "connect" in the output plugs right below "S400" and you will see the P2P change from 0 to 1. Leave the AVC browser open, then open V-DVHS and hit record.





I need help with the 5C handshake protocol. I understand that I cannot play back the "copy once" files in my mac since the apple cinema display is not HDCP compliant via DVI (ADC) but I was wondering if it is possible to play the m2t file out to a Samsung T165 via fire wire, convert it to DVI and view the image on my HDCP compliant projector?

Has anyone tried this?

Yesterday Comcast did an "over cable" update of the firmware in my Motu 6200 from 7.07 to 7.1.

At first I couldn't get it to come up in AVCBrowser. After messing around with it (various boot sequences, trying different firewire ports) I got it to come up this morning and was able to record.

This evening it's no go again.

Anybody have a clue? (G5, Motu 6200 (firmware 7.1)) No other external FW devices hooked up.

Thanks.

Originally posted by da_hd_dude
Yesterday Comcast did an "over cable" update of the firmware in my Motu 6200 from 7.07 to 7.1.

At first I couldn't get it to come up in AVCBrowser. After messing around with it (various boot sequences, trying different firewire ports) I got it to come up this morning and was able to record.

This evening it's no go again.

Anybody have a clue? (G5, Motu 6200 (firmware 7.1)) No other external FW devices hooked up.

Thanks.

what system location?

Sys location? you mean Panther?

Maybe it doesn't matter 'cos now I seem to have (don't know how) gotten it to recognize the 6200 (once again) - It's recording fine and when I try to play back via VLC (0.7.1a) it won't start - eventually I got "Main: ES does not belong to this input." As VLC will still play previously recorded VDVHS tracks fine, I must have (somehow) screwed up DVHS settings?

...go figure

Originally posted by da_hd_dude
It's recording fine and when I try to play back via VLC (0.7.1a) it won't start - eventually I got "Main: ES does not belong to this input." As VLC will still play previously recorded VDVHS tracks fine, I must have (somehow) screwed up DVHS settings?

...go figure

Thanks,
John

Do you have the 7.10 firmware ? I am unable to playback (with vlc 0.7.1a) some channels since I got updated.

Originally posted by da_hd_dude
Sys location? you mean Panther?

Maybe it doesn't matter 'cos now I seem to have (don't know how) gotten it to recognize the 6200 (once again) - It's recording fine and when I try to play back via VLC (0.7.1a) it won't start - eventually I got "Main: ES does not belong to this input." As VLC will still play previously recorded VDVHS tracks fine, I must have (somehow) screwed up DVHS settings?

...go figure

Thanks,
John

where are you? comcast of _____ ?

Folks,

I have updated the scripts to be used with kaadray's modified avcbrowser. Here is the link to the zip file.

http://mac_hdtv_timer.home.comcast.net/1394Recorder.zip

Scheduled timeshifting works with iCal as before. You may want to use Watson's TV Guide plug-in to expedite the process with iCal.

I use three alarm files in iCal for a timeshifting event:

Stop and Quit at 2 Minutes Before
Record at 1 Minute Before
Stop and Quit at (duration of program in minutes) Minutes After

The scripts are simplified due to kaadray's work and are an interim solution. There are scripts for the Moto 6200, SA 3250, SA 4200, Samsung T165 and MIT MDR 200.

The basic scripts are:

Record
Record and View
Stop
Stop and Quit

The Moto 6200 scripts also include:

Record CN8
Record and View CN8

These are templates for other channels, though they will work for channel 8 "out of the box." The idea is that you can customize your Record, and Record and View, scripts for as many specific channels as you see fit. It is just a simple matter of replacing the 8 with a number of your choosing and then store the modified script with an appropriately descriptive name using "Save As."

Record and View script lets you see what you are recording on a 15 second delay using VLC. To use this script, you will have to edit the script for the path. The script has an example path "MOBILE HD3A:DVHS" and to keep things simple, keep the path limited to just one folder. The View of the Finder window for the "DVHS" folder must be set as Column!!! Yes, this path must be the same path set in kaadray's modified avcbrowser. My example is for an external hard drive. For an internal hard drive example, you could have "Macintosh HD:DVHS" and again this would have to be the same path set in kaadray's modified avcbrowser. Note the path only has one folder in both examples!!! Also, if you have not done so already, you would need to associate the .m2t files with VLC.

Be sure to have kaadray's modified avcbrowser in your Applications folder. Be sure to remove the original avcbrowser from the Applications folder. The scripts for your set top box are to be saved in folder called "VirtualDVHS" in the path "Macintosh HD:Library:Scripts" and you may have to create this folder if it has not been set up already. Be sure to archive the older VirtualDVHS/AVCBrowser scripts outside this path.

Joe,

Wondering if you are going to update the tune script (though can easily be done manually). All that Hex changinging for nothing. Will check records with 7.10

Originally posted by rudolpht
Joe,

Wondering if you are going to update the tune script (though can easily be done manually). All that Hex changinging for nothing. Will check records with 7.10

Tim,

I can do just "tune-only" scripts. I will add them later after my backyard chores, ugh. But look on the bright-side, consider how often you get to dabble with hex numbers :)

I hope timeshifting on the Mac is going well with 7.10 on as many channels as possible.

Thanks Joe, I am noticing both versions of AVCBrowswer opening even though I ditched old version from Applications folder.

UNFORTUNATELY, early testing with 7.10 in Boston area produced great automation with new scripts & ical, but the stream (HBO) killed VLC a couple minutes in. I'll check more. Hopefully a VLC test2 issue vs stream.

Tim

Originally posted by rudolpht
Thanks Joe, I am noticing both versions of AVCBrowswer opening even though I ditched old version from Applications folder.

UNFORTUNATELY, early testing with 7.10 in Boston area produced great automation with new scripts & ical, but the stream (HBO) killed VLC a couple minutes in. I'll check more. Hopefully a VLC test2 issue vs stream.

Tim

Tim,

Were you using record and view. Or, did you record your capture and then, afterwards, used VLC to view? If the former, then the read sectors may have gotten too close to the write sectors on the hard drive.

Hmm, make sure that the old version is out of the dock and the desktop. If that doesn't work, rename it.

Just checked ESPN, HBO and INHD1 on my system and looks like 5C is turned on for those channels. I have the 7.10 firmware. Has anyone been able to record with DVHS on one of these channels with 7.10 ?

As Kaadray had pointed out, the mpeg2 ts playback on the Roku is not ready for primetime. Roku's stream player beta seems quite picky about beginning playback. I did eventually find a stream that it would play but it halted and returned to the main menu after about 15 minutes. A second attempt yielded the identical result at the same time.

Boston area here( Lowell actually ). I just checked and my firmwire was also updated to 7.10( previously was 7.07). I just ordered a nice 10 meter firewire cable too - I have a feeling I'm going to be unhappy when it comes in once hearing about the encryption being turned on. I will report back if nothing has been said come Wednesday.

Has anyone had troubles processing recorded streams?

I can't get anything to edit the mpeg2 video. The sequence headers FOLLOW the P and B frames they're supposed to precede !

Examples :

On my website (http://terminus.litz.org/hdtvtompeg2)

Check the 1080i .m2t files as well as the stuff in Trailers.

I've tried every utility known to load either the straight transport stream, a PS conversion, and the .m2v raw. Nothing recognizes it as valid mpeg2.

Yet the stream plays flawlessly in VLC.

Any ideas?

thanks

- litz

Originally posted by dudehey
Boston area here( Lowell actually ). I just checked and my firmwire was also updated to 7.10( previously was 7.07). I just ordered a nice 10 meter firewire cable too - I have a feeling I'm going to be unhappy when it comes in once hearing about the encryption being turned on. I will report back if nothing has been said come Wednesday.

Where did you get a 10 meter firewire cable ?

Originally posted by dozens
Just checked ESPN, HBO and INHD1 on my system and looks like 5C is turned on for those channels. I have the 7.10 firmware. Has anyone been able to record with DVHS on one of these channels with 7.10 ?


Wow, they turned on 5C for ESPN and INHD. That is really ridiculous. I can barely understand HBO because I know all of us were going to have grandma work in the basement to reencode the streams to fit on a single DVD and grandpa to print the cover art and handle the distribution at seemingly innocuous yard sales across the nation. (I am being sarcastic)

I am now forced to buy a POS JVC 30K. This is just great. Or I can get the 80 GB DVR at $10 per month that won't hold more than seven movies. This means I will be dropping all but one premium channel. I have been getting all the premiums since I can timeshift to my heart's content, at least as of last night.

I do not understand why they can't watermark the streams for tracing purposes and use the existing copyright laws to stamp out violations of the copyright laws.

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
Wow, they turned on 5C for ESPN and INHD. That is really ridiculous. I can barely understand HBO because I know all of us were going to have grandma work in the basement to reencode the streams to fit on a single DVD and grandpa to print the cover art and handle the distribution at seemingly innocuous yard sales across the nation. (I am being sarcastic)


I assume the other pay channels and INHD2 are 5C'ed as well. I only have HBO and didn't check INHD2.

BTW - Is it Comcast or originator that decides if 5C is turned on ?


I am now forced to buy a POS JVC 30K. This is just great. Or I can get the 80 GB DVR at $10 per month that won't hold more than seven movies. This means I will be dropping all but one premium channel. I have been getting all the premiums since I can timeshift to my heart's content, at least as of last night.


I was told the firewire is only oneway, if that is the case then how would a JVC be able to do the 5C handshake ?

Originally posted by dozens
BTW - Is it Comcast or originator that decides if 5C is turned on ?

I was told the firewire is only oneway, if that is the case then how would a JVC be able to do the 5C handshake ?
Firewire is bi-directional... And besides, 5C ONLY works on firewire right now! :)

I'm not sure of the answer to the first question. I THINK it's the cable company, but it may also be part of the FCC mandate or some other agreement between cable companies and stations.

I was 5Ced out of this thread about 2 weeks ago. EVERY station except broadcast has 5C activated on TWC San Diego. In another thread, a Time Warner representative (not San Diego) stated that they agreed to have 5C on for EVERYTHING except broadcast... and I got the impression this was blanket, that all cable companies agreed to this.

I put out the idea of a 5C compliant recorder on the Mac. This would require, at the very least, a new Firewire Driver, and data stored encrypted on the hard drive. The DTLA (controllers of 5C) have very strict requirements, and the buy in runs about $11K. I did a search, and not ONE SINGLE 5C compliant PC or Mac program exists! (Sorta stupid when the DTLA literature shows pictures that include a PC in many of their 5C documents.)

-Pie

Originally posted by EatingPie
...I put out the idea of a 5C compliant recorder on the Mac. This would require, at the very least, a new Firewire Driver, and data stored encrypted on the hard drive. The DTLA (controllers of 5C) have very strict requirements, and the buy in runs about $11K. I did a search, and not ONE SINGLE 5C compliant PC or Mac program exists! (Sorta stupid when the DTLA literature shows pictures that include a PC in many of their 5C documents.)
This is the likely reason Apple chose to release VirtualDVHS as they have. It was doomed as a product because it was already clear what the cable companies were going to do to their signal. This isn't some cheesy, careless "encryption" scheme like CSS that is being used. Without access to serious engineering resources to do some hacking at the hardware level (see Andrew Huang's book "Hacking the Xbox") it isn't going to yield. I hope I am wrong and someone, like Apple, gets the authorization to implement 5C for a PC product. Eventually a common home computer will be powerful enough to capture (ie digitize) and compress an analog HD signal just as they can already with an analog SD signal. At that point we will again have the option of time shifting and archiving TV in a manner we have taken for granted.

One bit of good news in this is that we may continue to be able to use computer products like VirtualDVHS with OTA (over the air) HDTV signals. From a product perspective the market is an order of magnitude smaller than the general TV audience since most people want to pay for TV in order to get as many stations as possible.

Originally posted by dozens
Where did you get a 10 meter firewire cable ?

firewirestuff.com/cables1.html

It may not be the cheapest, but it was a reasonable price, $38 plus about $5 for UPS ground. They are located in Cali so ground is about 5-7 days.

Anyone had troubles with iCal scripted recordings failing because the whole machine locks up?

I've had that happen since Saturday - haven't had a successful recording since.

It isn't anything that was installed or updated - nothing changed on the box. Neither has there been a firmware update on the 6200 either.

any ideas?

thankx

- litz

Originally posted by litz
Anyone had troubles with iCal scripted recordings failing because the whole machine locks up?

I've had that happen since Saturday - haven't had a successful recording since.

It isn't anything that was installed or updated - nothing changed on the box. Neither has there been a firmware update on the 6200 either.

any ideas?

thankx

- litz

Which set of scripts are you using? The ones for the original AVCBrowser/VirtualDVHS or the newer ones for kaadray's modified AVCBrowser? If the latter, you will need to rename the original AVCBrowser to avoid confusion with the newer set of scripts. What machine are you using? How much RAM? Do you have the storage path set up?

Which record script are you using? What cable box are you using?

I've finally had some time to get the Roku HD1000 to play VirtualDVHS transport streams and I can confirm it does work but operation is sketchy at best. When it does work, video playback quality is quit good from SMB shares over 100M/bit Ethernet.

A few observations:
Assigning a static IP address was the first stumbling block I hit. There is no provision for editing the IP address from the Roku interface so it has to be done manually via telnet by editing a config file with the VIM text editor.
The next issue is that Roku's streamplayer doesn't recognize .m2t as a valid extension so all files need to be renamed .ts or something else that it sees. Not a big deal but a nuisance nonetheless.
Streamplayer quits out after ~15 minutes of playback. I've only observed this on the one movie I tried to watch so I'm not sure if it is something with the stream or the player. I did try to restart the movie and it quit at the same exact moment. I read something about a 2GB limit on samba and maybe that has something to do with this.
I also tried MpegPSPlay .8 (a third party player) and that seems to recognize the files with the .m2t extension as well as plays .vob's. I haven't checked yet to see if it quits after 15 minutes.
Sounds is output via the SPDIF although no DD 5.1. I Need to recheck settings on this as it think it should work with 5.1
Even if I can get Streamplayer or MpegPSPlay working properly the biggest problem is that you have no way to FF or RWD or any way to jump to a particular point in the stream. If you stop and restart playback for any reason, you must start playback from the beginning. I've read that you can stream via HTTP from VLC on the Mac and the Roku can playback that stream. If this does work then you could control the playback from VLC. I'm not quite sure how this works since there doesn't seem to be any options in either streamplayer or MpegPSPlay to open a network stream.Any suggestions from those that have had better results with the Roku would be appreciated.

Thanks

Originally posted by rcliff

Even if I can get Streamplayer or MpegPSPlay working properly the biggest problem is that you have no way to FF or RWD or any way to jump to a particular point in the stream. If you stop and restart playback for any reason, you must start playback from the beginning. I've read that you can stream via HTTP from VLC on the Mac and the Roku can playback that stream. If this does work then you could control the playback from VLC. I'm not quite sure how this works since there doesn't seem to be any options in either streamplayer or MpegPSPlay to open a network stream.[/list]Any suggestions from those that have had better results with the Roku would be appreciated.

Thanks

I use vlc and stream over http to the roku. I call vlc from a terminal window like this 'VLC $1 --sout "#std{mux=ts,access=http}"'
remove the single quotes above.

You can also have a somwhat klunky rewind or ff my pausing vlc and moving it slider some amount and then start playing. Before Comcast turned on the 5C flag I had no problem playing large files. In fact one file was over 40 gigs...I forgot to stop the recording :)

Has anyone had any success in getting final cut pro hd to connect to the 6200?

Originally posted by dozens
I use vlc and stream over http to the roku. I call vlc from a terminal window like this 'VLC $1 --sout "#std{mux=ts,access=http}"'
remove the single quotes above.
Hmm...so you start VLC on the Mac and stream out via HTTP using the advanced output settings, then you telnet into the Roku and initiate a connection to VLC on the Mac? or are you running a build of VLC directly on the Roku? I see a build of VLC listed on Roku's site.

Originally posted by rcliff
Hmm...so you start VLC on the Mac and stream out via HTTP using the advanced output settings, then you telnet into the Roku and initiate a connection to VLC on the Mac? or are you running a build of VLC directly on the Roku? I see a build of VLC listed on Roku's site.

Using MpegPSPlay v0.8 I do "./MpegPSPlay http://mac-ip:8080" I believe MpegPSPlay has some vlc code in it.

Ok ...

Been playing with the Mac recording now for about two weeks.

It works great.

EXCEPT the Mac keeps freezing when I try to schedule recordings.

iCal opens, mac freezes. DEAD. Only resolution is a yank-the-power-cord to reboot it solution.

*WHY* ?

It ran GREAT for a whole week, now I can't get it to survive a day.

This is on an old beige g3/266 (which shouldn't matter - others are using the same computer).

Has anyone else run into a similar problem?

thanks

- litz

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
Which set of scripts are you using? The ones for the original AVCBrowser/VirtualDVHS or the newer ones for kaadray's modified AVCBrowser? If the latter, you will need to rename the original AVCBrowser to avoid confusion with the newer set of scripts. What machine are you using? How much RAM? Do you have the storage path set up?

Which record script are you using? What cable box are you using?

litz,

Need the info in the quote above to troubleshoot.

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
litz,

Need the info in the quote above to troubleshoot.

I used the original scripts, but modified for the new AVC Browser.

I also modified the Channel change / Channel Up/down scripts to work with the modified AVC Browser.

The functions are the same, but some of the buttons and # of tab keypresses are different.

Machine is a G3/266 beige minitower w/addon firewire. 384mb of memory.

The machine does the proper channel change, AND properly starts recording, then freezes midway.

As an example of scheduling, I set iCal to do the following :

5mins before, channel change
3mins before, channel up/down if channel ends in zero
1min before, launch and record
xx mins after, stop and quit.

And it's a HARD freeze. Even the keyboard "reboot" command doesn't work. I have to pull the power cord.

Examples of the scripts (launch/record and stop/quit from here, rest inside Tune to Channel) (http://terminus.litz.org/MacTimeShifterX/Moto%206200%20Scripts/)

thanks !

- litz

Originally posted by ylandsman
Has anyone had any success in getting final cut pro hd to connect to the 6200?

I haven't played much with it since it updated, but I believe FCP HD only supports one particular format that I am too lazy to look up, but which is not what the 6200 generates.

Originally posted by dozens
Using MpegPSPlay v0.8 I do "./MpegPSPlay http://mac-ip:8080" I believe MpegPSPlay has some vlc code in it. Thanks dozens, I'll give it a try. I think the Roku has a lot of potential but is still quite rough around the edges and definitely not consumer friendly.

So with 5c coming on in various areas, it seems that there is a decline in interest in recording with just the broadcast channels. I am interested in time-shifting even just the broadcast channels once my area has everything else encrypted, so I continue to work on my timed recording app, but I am curious if anyone else is still interested for similar reasons? If not, I won't bother to make it robust and pretty, I'll just get to the point where it works for me and stop :D. But if people are still interested, I'll do a better job of it. Feel free to send a PM if you think this is too off-topic to reply in-thread.

Kaadray, please continue :) This is great stuff for the Mac and HD recording with no viable equivalent on the PC. Even if this becomes an OTA only solution, I think there will still be an interest.

Originally posted by kaadray
So with 5c coming on in various areas, it seems that there is a decline in interest in recording with just the broadcast channels. I am interested in time-shifting even just the broadcast channels once my area has everything else encrypted, so I continue to work on my timed recording app, but I am curious if anyone else is still interested for similar reasons? If not, I won't bother to make it robust and pretty, I'll just get to the point where it works for me and stop :D. But if people are still interested, I'll do a better job of it. Feel free to send a PM if you think this is too off-topic to reply in-thread.

kaadray,

I hope you continue with it. We don't know to what extent 5C will be applied to the various channels. OTA HD will definitely be in the clear. We don't know what kind of future 5C will have if Boucher's DMCRA bill passes which would restore fair use rights lost through the DMCA.

I timeshift a lot of local OTA HD.

I'll second that ...

While I prefer the MyHD for OTA recording (its transport streams are a little easier to edit/manipulate than the Motorola 6200 streams) here in Marietta, GA I can't get 1/2 the OTA channels due to multipath and bad signal.

So I'm reliant on the 6200 for the rest of the channels.

And the Mac caps very well for this (although I'm still having random freezeup problems).

Plus -- as mentioned above, we may well get the 5C restrictions loosened or removed by law ...

- litz

Hi all,

Awesome thread! I just purchased a HDTV, so of course the first thing I did after reading this thread was have Cox activate the firewire on the back of my 3250HD.

So far, I've had success recording via kaadray's AVCBrowser 0.3 (*great* app, btw!). I've recorded INHD, Discovery HD and other channels with no issues. Like others, no luck recording premium HD channels like HBO-HD.

My only problem so far is playback in VLC -- like mentioned in other posts, I have no audio playback on my G5 dual 2.0.

Ok, so here are my questions:

1. Is there a Mac alternative to VLC that *will* handle audio playback on the G5?

2. How can I play the recorded .m2t files back on my HDTV/3250HD?

3. Is there a way to change channels on the 3250HD via AVCBrowser? (I've only seen directions for the 6200)

4. Is there a way to encode/convert .m2t files to burn/play on a DVD player?

5. I see lots of premium HBO HD shows posted on the net for download (Sopranos, Deadwood, etc). How are people recording this if there's a 5C restriction? Do they record it on a D-VHS like the JVC and then somehow dump it from the the D-VHS deck to a PC/Mac?

Here's my big question (and one that will show my total newbie cluelessness):

We know that recorded HD content takes up about 9GB for 1hour, so 30 minutes (give or take) of HD content should fit on a single DVD-R sans compression. Given that, would a DVD burned with 30 minutes of HD content still play in 1080i upon playback, or are progressive DVD players limited to 480p playback, regardless of source material? Would a DVI-equipped DVD player allow playback of recorded HD content?

Thanks all. I know most of these questions have been addressed, but I've just browsed through 30 pages of posts in this thread and I'm cross-eyed after nearly 3 hours of reading. :)

Given that, would a DVD burned with 30 minutes of HD content still play in 1080i upon playback, or are progressive DVD players limited to 480p playback, regardless of source material? Would a DVI-equipped DVD player allow playback of recorded HD content?

No it would not play at 1080i, the dvd player is limited to 480p. There are some on the market now that tout 1080i output through up-conversion. I'm not sure how it would look but it would probably look better then a normal dvd. You could just wait for blue-laser dvd's with a capacity of 20-30 gigs, don't hold your breath though.

Originally posted by swartzfeger
Hi all,

Awesome thread! I just purchased a HDTV, so of course the first thing I did after reading this thread was have Cox activate the firewire on the back of my 3250HD.

So far, I've had success recording via kaadray's AVCBrowser 0.3 (*great* app, btw!). I've recorded INHD, Discovery HD and other channels with no issues. Like others, no luck recording premium HD channels like HBO-HD.

My only problem so far is playback in VLC -- like mentioned in other posts, I have no audio playback on my G5 dual 2.0.

Ok, so here are my questions:

1. Is there a Mac alternative to VLC that *will* handle audio playback on the G5?

Have you tried the very latest VLC beta 0.7.2-test2?

2. How can I play the recorded .m2t files back on my HDTV/3250HD?

The SA boxes do not have working input plugs and neither do the Motorola boxes.

3. Is there a way to change channels on the 3250HD via AVCBrowser? (I've only seen directions for the 6200)

Presently, the SA firmware does not permit changing the channel over Firewire.

4. Is there a way to encode/convert .m2t files to burn/play on a DVD player?

I wish I knew but I would not want to downconvert my capture in so doing. Who knows; maybe 10.4 Tiger may allow burning and hardware-based playback of .m2t files.

5. I see lots of premium HBO HD shows posted on the net for download (Sopranos, Deadwood, etc). How are people recording this if there's a 5C restriction? Do they record it on a D-VHS like the JVC and then somehow dump it from the the D-VHS deck to a PC/Mac?

Not all systems have enabled 5C yet. My advice would be not to download or upload .m2t files to a file sharing service unless you are the copyright holder.

Here's my big question (and one that will show my total newbie cluelessness):

We know that recorded HD content takes up about 9GB for 1hour, so 30 minutes (give or take) of HD content should fit on a single DVD-R sans compression. Given that, would a DVD burned with 30 minutes of HD content still play in 1080i upon playback, or are progressive DVD players limited to 480p playback, regardless of source material? Would a DVI-equipped DVD player allow playback of recorded HD content?

Full bit rate HD is about 9 GB per hour. "Premium" HD bit rate is about 14 Mbps which would take up about 5 GB per hour - some "premium," hmmm? However, today's consumer dvd players will not play .m2t files but rather lower resolution .VOB files.

Thanks all. I know most of these questions have been addressed, but I've just browsed through 30 pages of posts in this thread and I'm cross-eyed after nearly 3 hours of reading. :)

Yep, there is a lot of info in this thread.

Originally posted by dudehey
No it would not play at 1080i, the dvd player is limited to 480p. There are some on the market now that tout 1080i output through up-conversion. I'm not sure how it would look but it would probably look better then a normal dvd. You could just wait for blue-laser dvd's with a capacity of 20-30 gigs, don't hold your breath though.

Yep, you will have to wait for the next generation dvd players.

Originally posted by litz
I used the original scripts, but modified for the new AVC Browser.

I also modified the Channel change / Channel Up/down scripts to work with the modified AVC Browser.

The functions are the same, but some of the buttons and # of tab keypresses are different.

Machine is a G3/266 beige minitower w/addon firewire. 384mb of memory.

The machine does the proper channel change, AND properly starts recording, then freezes midway.

As an example of scheduling, I set iCal to do the following :

5mins before, channel change
3mins before, channel up/down if channel ends in zero
1min before, launch and record
xx mins after, stop and quit.

And it's a HARD freeze. Even the keyboard "reboot" command doesn't work. I have to pull the power cord.

Examples of the scripts (launch/record and stop/quit from here, rest inside Tune to Channel) (http://terminus.litz.org/MacTimeShifterX/Moto%206200%20Scripts/)



thanks !

- litz


The latest scripts to be used with kaadray's modified AVCBrowser (http://macpvr.home.comcast.net/avcbrowser.html) are found in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3771254#post3771254) . Sorry, I couldn't reply sooner. The older scripts do not work with kaadray's modified AVCBrowser.

Here is the direct link to the zip file but I strongly caution you to read the post linked above for the all important details!!!!!!

http://mac_hdtv_timer.home.comcast.net/1394Recorder.zip

I have not updated the website because these scripts are an interim solution as I would imagine that kaadray's application, when released, will render it as being "old school."

I still don't understand why people seem to be having a problem with audio output on VLC on the G5. I had this problem before version 0.7 but it seems to have been fixed since then. To those still having a problem.

1) Are you using the latest version (currently 0.7.2test2)
2) Are you using analog or optical out (I've only used analog)
3) Have you reset the sound control panel to the right setting after launch
4) Have you checked the coreaudio setting under Preferences->modules->AudioOutput->CoreAudio

Hmm ...

The scripts I'm using are already modified for the "new" AVC browser, and they do seem to work ... the freezeups I have happen mid-capture. The machine just freezes and locks up.

Although ...

I think I may have found at least *a* cause for my freezeups ...

I've been copying my files via Samba across the network.

If I originate the file copy from the *mac* instead, copying to a Windows fileshare, it seems to be MUCH stabler.

The reason for this is that 1) the HTPC (and its MyHD HDTV card) are on a Windows PC, and the utilities for cutting transport streams are on that machine as well.

- litz

Originally posted by litz
Hmm ...

The scripts I'm using are already modified for the "new" AVC browser, and they do seem to work ... the freezeups I have happen mid-capture. The machine just freezes and locks up.

Although ...

I think I may have found at least *a* cause for my freezeups ...

I've been copying my files via Samba across the network.

If I originate the file copy from the *mac* instead, copying to a Windows fileshare, it seems to be MUCH stabler.

The reason for this is that 1) the HTPC (and its MyHD HDTV card) are on a Windows PC, and the utilities for cutting transport streams are on that machine as well.

- litz

I use the MyHD card for playback and HDTV2MPEG to edit on my Dell.

Originally posted by rcliff
I still don't understand why people seem to be having a problem with audio output on VLC on the G5. I had this problem before version 0.7 but it seems to have been fixed since then. To those still having a problem.

1) Are you using the latest version (currently 0.7.2test2)

Yes.

2) Are you using analog or optical out (I've only used analog)

Analog.

3) Have you reset the sound control panel to the right setting after launch

Yes

4) Have you checked the coreaudio setting under Preferences->modules->AudioOutput->CoreAudio

This I have NOT done yet. My current pref says '-1 Audio Device.' Should it be another value?

Originally posted by jsb_hburg

Have you tried the very latest VLC beta 0.7.2-test2?

The SA boxes do not have working input plugs and neither do the Motorola boxes.

Presently, the SA firmware does not permit changing the channel over Firewire.

I wish I knew but I would not want to downconvert my capture in so doing. Who knows; maybe 10.4 Tiger may allow burning and hardware-based playback of .m2t files.

Not all systems have enabled 5C yet. My advice would be not to download or upload .m2t files to a file sharing service unless you are the copyright holder.

Full bit rate HD is about 9 GB per hour. "Premium" HD bit rate is about 14 Mbps which would take up about 5 GB per hour - some "premium," hmmm? However, today's consumer dvd players will not play .m2t files but rather lower resolution .VOB files.

Yep, there is a lot of info in this thread.

Joe, thanks so much for the detailed reply.

So, is it accurate for me to state that Mac/firewire HDTV recording is nowhere near a TivoHD equivalent yet? The 6200/3250 don't allow playback on the HDTV, relegating viewing to my computer LCD monitor. There's no way of recording m2t files and playing them back at their native 1080i. Should I just consider this a way to archive HD content I enjoy until a HD-DVD or HD-recordable format is released?

Do we know if Scientific Atlanta/Motorola will ever support input on the back of their boxes?

Now that I think about it, most of this moot anyway. My new house (a log cabin, being built in the middle of NOWHERE) will not have cable service and I will be forced to go with a satellite service like DirecTV, Dish or Voom.

Are the options for HD recording/playback any better with satellite? From what I've read, it doesn't even seem possible at this point!

Originally posted by swartzfeger
Joe, thanks so much for the detailed reply.

So, is it accurate for me to state that Mac/firewire HDTV recording is nowhere near a TivoHD equivalent yet? The 6200/3250 don't allow playback on the HDTV, relegating viewing to my computer LCD monitor. There's no way of recording m2t files and playing them back at their native 1080i. Should I just consider this a way to archive HD content I enjoy until a HD-DVD or HD-recordable format is released?

Do we know if Scientific Atlanta/Motorola will ever support input on the back of their boxes?

Now that I think about it, most of this moot anyway. My new house (a log cabin, being built in the middle of NOWHERE) will not have cable service and I will be forced to go with a satellite service like DirecTV, Dish or Voom.

Are the options for HD recording/playback any better with satellite? From what I've read, it doesn't even seem possible at this point!

Maxtor is coming out with a special hard drive called the QuickView Expander or QVE for short. This hard drive should playback thru the cable box. Mac recording is easy. Mac playplack is a different story as it depends on what you have to decode the .m2t file.

I just got a DCT6200 and a mac just so I can record. It is a 400 power mac g3 B&W. I also purchased OSX 10.3.3. I tried to use the virtualdvhs but when I drag the folder on it or try to open it without dragging the folder my mac haults and tells me to restart???? I have tried everything I can think of. Display settings, sdk 18 + 19 , reinstalled osx then just 18 then just 19. everytime I open the firewire cap or dvhs it has a grey screen that scrolls down and says I must restart the mac by holding my reset button and the power??? I wish I could get this dagnappid thing to work and I understand that you prolly get a million messages with weird issues. I have a bunch of friends and we all just got macs and lcd projectors just for this reason. Any help at this point would be the greatest.

Thanx,
Tek

Originally posted by ccteknet
I just got a DCT6200 and a mac just so I can record. It is a 400 power mac g3 B&W. I also purchased OSX 10.3.3. I tried to use the virtualdvhs but when I drag the folder on it or try to open it without dragging the folder my mac haults and tells me to restart???? I have tried everything I can think of. Display settings, sdk 18 + 19 , reinstalled osx then just 18 then just 19. everytime I open the firewire cap or dvhs it has a grey screen that scrolls down and says I must restart the mac by holding my reset button and the power??? I wish I could get this dagnappid thing to work and I understand that you prolly get a million messages with weird issues. I have a bunch of friends and we all just got macs and lcd projectors just for this reason. Any help at this point would be the greatest.

Thanx,
Tek
Bad news :( This does not seem to work with the blue & white G3's due to a different firewire chipset. Read further back in this thread for more info.

Originally posted by swartzfeger
This I have NOT done yet. My current pref says '-1 Audio Device.' Should it be another value? Mine is set for "1" not "-1" and it works.

Originally posted by rcliff
Bad news :( This does not seem to work with the blue & white G3's due to a different firewire chipset. Read further back in this thread for more info.

Not sure if anyone's tried this, but what about using a $16 OHCI pci firewire card on that machine?

- litz

Ok,

I still cannot capture without freezing.

Using the new scripts, followed all the instructions.

1/2 the time it works.

1/2 the time the machine freezes midcapture and the only solution is to pull the power plug.

It ran flawlessly sat, sun, and this morning.

Tonite, bam. Frozen. I get no ping from it, can't ssh, can't VNC. Same exact thing that happened before.

What is going on? Obviously others are NOT having this problem and I know there have been at least a few others here using Beige G3's w/panther and THEY aren't having this problem.

I really need a solution - I'm out of town and my ENTIRE week of capping just went up in smoke.

:-(

- litz

...some further progress with the roku and m2t files. I now have the streaming from VLC working from the Mac to the roku. PQ is perfect (NOTE: VirtualDVHS chokes on this stream via firewire output) but there's no DD 5.1 with MpegPSPlay 0.7, 0.8 or 0.9. Dozens, do you the roku working with DD 5.1?

My receiver has no more optical inputs so the roku is relegated to rca connectors.

Originally posted by rcliff
Mine is set for "1" not "-1" and it works.

Cliff, you da man -- setting it to "1" works.

Thanks!

I am now so addicted to recording HD I'm going to sell my Apple 20" LCD and get the Apple 23" CinemaHD for the full 1080i resolution. :)

Originally posted by dozens
My receiver has no more optical inputs so the roku is relegated to rca connectors.
There's no optical out on the roku only coax s/pdif. If you have an extra coax digital in, that would work as well as the optical input.

Originally posted by swartzfeger
Cliff, you da man -- setting it to "1" works. Cool! Hopefully, others who have the same problem read this.

Originally posted by rcliff
There's no optical out on the roku only coax s/pdif. If you have an extra coax digital in, that would work as well as the optical input.

Duh! I just check my receiver (Onkyo SR-601) and it does have a Coax in (orange). Now I just need a cable ? Are they easy to make or they available at CC or Best Buy ?

Originally posted by dozens
Duh! I just check my receiver (Onkyo SR-601) and it does have a Coax in (orange). Now I just need a cable ? Are they easy to make or they available at CC or Best Buy ?

RS have single RCA coax cables and I am using a plain single RCA coax cable from RS to connect my Revo card to my coax digital input on my receiver.

Originally posted by dozens
Duh! I just check my receiver (Onkyo SR-601) and it does have a Coax in (orange). Now I just need a cable ? Are they easy to make or they available at CC or Best Buy ? Any decent quality A/V cable with RCA connectors should work.

For anyone having trouble streaming your recordings from VLC to a Roku HD1000 I wrote up some brief instructions here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3812226#post3812226).

I get 5.1 fine with Streamplayer on the Roku, but I haven't checked with CinemaSix.

I'm still dead, can't get this to work at all.

Same Beige g3/266. Updated the scripts and all.

It will not capture. Anything.

AVCBrowser starts up just fine, at some random point while capturing the entire machine locks up. Black screen, no action.

You have to pull the power plug.

I'm at a loss. This system worked PERFECTLY for almost two weeks.

Now I can't even get it to survive ONE capture. All disks check fine, and the entire machine is TOTALLY bare of any running programs. It's just sitting completely idle.

I'm at wits end here. I *thought* I had a functional capping setup, but now this thing has ruined an entire week's scheduling including quite a few shows that will never, ever air again and therefore I've missed them completely.

Does anyone have any ideas on where to go or what to do? This has SO much promise, I'd hate to have to throw in the towel and give up.

I *know* other people are actively capping, using the same or similar hardware, and they are NOT having this kind of trouble.

So, someone - anyone - any ideas?

thanks

- litz

Originally posted by swartzfeger
Joe, thanks so much for the detailed reply.

So, is it accurate for me to state that Mac/firewire HDTV recording is nowhere near a TivoHD equivalent yet? The 6200/3250 don't allow playback on the HDTV, relegating viewing to my computer LCD monitor. There's no way of recording m2t files and playing them back at their native 1080i. Should I just consider this a way to archive HD content I enjoy until a HD-DVD or HD-recordable format is released?

Do we know if Scientific Atlanta/Motorola will ever support input on the back of their boxes?

I think we can count on cable boxes being firewire-out only. But there are a few solutions if your TV does not have a firewire in.

(1) The JVC 30K D-VHS deck, which can be had for under $300 these days, can act as a dumb decoder. This is how I handle playback from the Mac. Just firewire the Mac to the JVC, tune the JVC to the right firewire channel, "I-1" for example, and use VirtualDVHS.

(2) The Roku box thing can apparently handle a .ts over 100mbps ethernet. I have no idea what you use to play to the Roku, but I do know somone who is using this solution.

-Pie

Originally posted by litz
I'm still dead, can't get this to work at all.

Same Beige g3/266. Updated the scripts and all.

It will not capture. Anything.

AVCBrowser starts up just fine, at some random point while capturing the entire machine locks up. Black screen, no action.

You have to pull the power plug.

I'm at a loss. This system worked PERFECTLY for almost two weeks.

Now I can't even get it to survive ONE capture. All disks check fine, and the entire machine is TOTALLY bare of any running programs. It's just sitting completely idle.

I'm at wits end here. I *thought* I had a functional capping setup, but now this thing has ruined an entire week's scheduling including quite a few shows that will never, ever air again and therefore I've missed them completely.

Does anyone have any ideas on where to go or what to do? This has SO much promise, I'd hate to have to throw in the towel and give up.

I *know* other people are actively capping, using the same or similar hardware, and they are NOT having this kind of trouble.

So, someone - anyone - any ideas?

thanks

- litz


How much memory on the Mac; is it maxed out? How many other programs besides the modified AVCBrowser and iCal are active; is it zero? Are the captured files being written to the Mac's hard drive, Mac external drive or other? Is the Mac also being used as a webserver or taxed in anyother way?

Originally posted by EatingPie
The Roku box thing can apparently handle a .ts over 100mbps ethernet. I have no idea what you use to play to the Roku, but I do know somone who is using this solution. The Roku does work but it's not too polished. It can play back ts files directly from an SMB share over 100M/Bit ethernet but there are no controls other than pause. If you stop a movie for any reason in the middle you must restart from the beginning! Quite annoying. What works somewhat better is if you stream from VLC on a Mac or PC and connect to the stream with the Roku using a roku app called MpegPSPlay. You can then control the playback with the VLC slider. No support for DD 5.1 with this method yet.

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
How much memory on the Mac; is it maxed out? How many other programs besides the modified AVCBrowser and iCal are active; is it zero? Are the captured files being written to the Mac's hard drive, Mac external drive or other? Is the Mac also being used as a webserver or taxed in anyother way?

This machine has 384mb of memory.

It does NOTHING except sit there, waiting to capture (all power settings are disabled so it won't shut down, standby, or spin down). The only active program is iCal, and AVCBrowser when it's recording.

It captures to IDE1, system drive is on IDE0.

It froze again tonight. Started capping at 7:30, died sometime between then and when it was supposed to stop at 8:00pm.

Even with reboots, disk scans, permissions checks, etc. I have yet to manage one, single, successful capture since last sunday. It's totally nonfunctional now.

What on earth could be wrong with this thing?

- litz

Originally posted by litz
This machine has 384mb of memory.

It does NOTHING except sit there, waiting to capture (all power settings are disabled so it won't shut down, standby, or spin down). The only active program is iCal, and AVCBrowser when it's recording.

It captures to IDE1, system drive is on IDE0.

It froze again tonight. Started capping at 7:30, died sometime between then and when it was supposed to stop at 8:00pm.

Even with reboots, disk scans, permissions checks, etc. I have yet to manage one, single, successful capture since last sunday. It's totally nonfunctional now.

What on earth could be wrong with this thing?

- litz
It's most likely a bad drive, power supply or other hardware problem. Did you add RAM or make any other hardware changes? I would try a clean install of 10.3 to confirm. It doesn't sound like a software issue if it was working perfectly before with no hardware changes.

Originally posted by EatingPie
I think we can count on cable boxes being firewire-out only. But there are a few solutions if your TV does not have a firewire in.

(1) The JVC 30K D-VHS deck, which can be had for under $300 these days, can act as a dumb decoder. This is how I handle playback from the Mac. Just firewire the Mac to the JVC, tune the JVC to the right firewire channel, "I-1" for example, and use VirtualDVHS.


Are you saying if I add a JVC to the firewire chain then my mac will have access to the unscrambled stream and be able to record it ? I wonder if I slightlt broken jvc will work :)


(2) The Roku box thing can apparently handle a .ts over 100mbps ethernet. I have no idea what you use to play to the Roku, but I do know somone who is using this solution.

-Pie

SMB shares have a file size limit, I think it is 3 gigs. Anything over that size will not get played with Roku's native application.

Originally posted by litz
This machine has 384mb of memory.

It does NOTHING except sit there, waiting to capture (all power settings are disabled so it won't shut down, standby, or spin down). The only active program is iCal, and AVCBrowser when it's recording.

It captures to IDE1, system drive is on IDE0.

It froze again tonight. Started capping at 7:30, died sometime between then and when it was supposed to stop at 8:00pm.

Even with reboots, disk scans, permissions checks, etc. I have yet to manage one, single, successful capture since last sunday. It's totally nonfunctional now.

What on earth could be wrong with this thing?

- litz

Did you alter the Mac hardware- or software-wise since last Sunday? Have you tried recording to a different Mac-formatted drive?

Originally posted by rcliff
It's most likely a bad drive, power supply or other hardware problem. Did you add RAM or make any other hardware changes? I would try a clean install of 10.3 to confirm. It doesn't sound like a software issue if it was working perfectly before with no hardware changes.

If it was any of the above, I would expect the machine to lock up at other times .. ie when copying files off the HDD, etc.

The ONLY time this machine locks up is specifically when running AVCBrowser and capturing. It is solid as a rock at ANY other task you care to throw at it.

I've copied 15-20gb files off the hard drive both across 100baseT and across firewire TCP, ran like a clock.

Should I try capturing to an external Firewire HDD ? Does that even work?

- litz

With 512 MB on my old iMac G4/800, capture would freeze and then the gray reboot screen would appear if I was using Safari to access a graphics-intensive page. I now have an eMac G4/1.25 with 1 GB RAM and I can capture and surf at the same time without problems.

Did you run the Apple Hardware test CD that may have come with your computer to see if your RAM is okay?

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
The latest scripts to be used with kaadray's modified AVCBrowser (http://macpvr.home.comcast.net/avcbrowser.html) are found in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3771254#post3771254) . Sorry, I couldn't reply sooner. The older scripts do not work with kaadray's modified AVCBrowser.

Here is the direct link to the zip file but I strongly caution you to read the post linked above for the all important details!!!!!!

http://mac_hdtv_timer.home.comcast.net/1394Recorder.zip

I have not updated the website because these scripts are an interim solution as I would imagine that kaadray's application, when released, will render it as being "old school."

Cliff,

Is it possible to put the links to the scripts and the modified AVCBrowser in the first post of this thread?

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
With 512 MB on my old iMac G4/800, capture would freeze and then the gray reboot screen would appear if I was using Safari to access a graphics-intensive page. I now have an eMac G4/1.25 with 1 GB RAM and I can capture and surf at the same time without problems.

Did you run the Apple Hardware test CD that may have come with your computer to see if your RAM is okay?

Is that available for download, by any chance?

This is a borrowed machine so I have no CDs at all for it, outside of the Panther installer CDs.

I should not need near that much memory - the machine is not being used for anything other than capture ...

- litz

What if I want to import std def material from my JVC 30k, can I use IMovie to do this? Basically I ahve recorded a bunch of stuff on my 30k and now want to edit and make a dvd.

Originally posted by litz
Is that available for download, by any chance?

This is a borrowed machine so I have no CDs at all for it, outside of the Panther installer CDs.

I should not need near that much memory - the machine is not being used for anything other than capture ...

- litz


I searched the Apple site and Google and I couldn't find it available for download. You may have to contact an Apple Store to see if they have a spare copy. Is the RAM in the computer all original? All Apple? All from a 3rd Party? Or a mix of Apple and 3rd Party memory?

I got 7.10 firmware from Comcast for my Moto 6200 box overnight.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

Could you believe that Discovery Kids is even copy once? VLC just chokes on 5C flagged streams. At least CSPAN3 and the local HD channels are in the clear.

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
Did you run the Apple Hardware test CD that may have come with your computer to see if your RAM is okay? Joe, iirc the Apple hardware test CD started shipping with the iMac and G4's. I don't think there was one for the beige g3's and they are hardware specific. Techtools might work though.

Originally posted by litz
Should I try capturing to an external Firewire HDD ? Does that even work?
Yes and yes

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
Cliff,

Is it possible to put the links to the scripts and the modified AVCBrowser in the first post of this thread? done

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
Did you alter the Mac hardware- or software-wise since last Sunday? Have you tried recording to a different Mac-formatted drive?

I didn't change a thing.

It capped sunday night just fine.

Then it froze on monday morning about 3 hours later.

It hasn't worked since.

Every drive check passes. Every diagnostic passes.

Tried different memory. no help.

Checked the powersupply - all outputs are normal, clean DC power within specs. No AC ripple, no voltages out of tolerance.

I really, really, don't want to reinstall Panther. That's a major, major, major, major bitch to accomplish on a Beige G3. I mean *major*.

Can you capture to an external firewire hard drive?

thankx

- litz

Ok,

someone in a previous post mentioned that capturing to a external firewire HDD works, and so far that seems to do the trick.

I guess trying to write a 38mb/s ts stream to a ata33 hdd wasn't a good idea in retrospect ...

- litz

FYI --

The official release of VLC 0.7.2 is now out:

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/14738

Anyone successful on transcoding with VLC?

I'm interesting in going TS --> PS --> TS. I have alot of hosed up content with audio drop out, and I'm hoping a transcode to Program Stream and back may eliminite it.

-Pie

Originally posted by dozens
Are you saying if I add a JVC to the firewire chain then my mac will have access to the unscrambled stream and be able to record it ? I wonder if I slightlt broken jvc will work :)



SMB shares have a file size limit, I think it is 3 gigs. Anything over that size will not get played with Roku's native application.

The one nice thing about the Roku streamplayer app is that it automatically goes from one movie in a folder to another other. So I use a small utility to break up the large captures into segments. It only takes a few seconds, and when watching it back in the roku it is basically seamless - I can rarely tell when going from one file to the next.

Sooo, my external firewire drive doesn't seem to like having the 6200 connected at the same time as it (or OS X doesn't) - it gets unmounted with a message about a device being incorrectly removed when I plug the 6200 in - sigh.

Originally posted by dudehey
Sooo, my external firewire drive doesn't seem to like having the 6200 connected at the same time as it (or OS X doesn't) - it gets unmounted with a message about a device being incorrectly removed when I plug the 6200 in - sigh.

When I had the 6200, the 6200 was at the end of the chain and the external HDD was in the middle. I had no problems with the 6200 and 7.07 for about three months. The external HDD did not get unceremoniously disconnected for the three days I had 7.10 and the 6200, last week. Now, I have a 6208 and 7.07 but the Firewire stream is riddled with glitches as others have previously reported. I want to use the Mac to record in the clear (5C=0) channels to keep room for the 5C=1 channels on the DVR HDD.

Originally posted by dudehey
Sooo, my external firewire drive doesn't seem to like having the 6200 connected at the same time as it (or OS X doesn't) - it gets unmounted with a message about a device being incorrectly removed when I plug the 6200 in - sigh. Did you try different firewire configurations?
ie.
1) STB and drive each into separate firewire ports on the Mac
2) Mac to STB to drive
3) Mac to drive to STB
4) Etc

Originally posted by kaadray
The one nice thing about the Roku streamplayer app is that it automatically goes from one movie in a folder to another other. So I use a small utility to break up the large captures into segments. It only takes a few seconds, and when watching it back in the roku it is basically seamless - I can rarely tell when going from one file to the next. Kaadray, are you using the unix split command on the Mac to break up the streams? If so, I would think it would take a while until the new files are written.

If you break up the stream for a typical movie into 20 or so pieces, the roku could have a form of crude time index control when you start playback with any ~5 minute segment. I suppose you could even break the file into ~100 pieces and then you could skip back and forward ~1 minute with the FF and RWD buttons. I guess it depends how seamless the transitions are. What do you think?

Originally posted by rcliff
Kaadray, are you using the unix split command on the Mac to break up the streams? If so, I would think it would take a while until the new files are written.

If you break up the stream for a typical movie into 20 or so pieces, the roku could have a form of crude time index control when you start playback with any ~5 minute segment. I suppose you could even break the file into ~100 pieces and then you could skip back and forward ~1 minute with the FF and RWD buttons. I guess it depends how seamless the transitions are. What do you think?

I have seen the commands for concatenate but not for splitting up MPEG2-TS files that will playback in sequence seamlessly.

Originally posted by rcliff
Did you try different firewire configurations?
ie.
1) STB and drive each into separate firewire ports on the Mac
2) Mac to STB to drive
3) Mac to drive to STB
4) Etc

Welp, I have 3 firewire devices, an iPod, the external drive and the 6200. I have 2 firewire ports and have tried:
Mac->Ext. Drive->iPod Both devices work
Mac->6200 and Mac->iPod Works
Mac->6200 and Mac->Ext. Drive->iPod iPod and 6200 work
Mac->Ext. Drive and Mac->6200 6200 works
Mac->6200->Ext. Drive 6200 works

Further, in system profiler my firewire devices read:
iPod
FireWire Device
FireWire Device
DCT-6200

But only when the 6200 is connected, then it reads properly.

It is an old firewire drive, looks like I may need to get a new one - argh.

Originally posted by rcliff
Kaadray, are you using the unix split command on the Mac to break up the streams? If so, I would think it would take a while until the new files are written.

If you break up the stream for a typical movie into 20 or so pieces, the roku could have a form of crude time index control when you start playback with any ~5 minute segment. I suppose you could even break the file into ~100 pieces and then you could skip back and forward ~1 minute with the FF and RWD buttons. I guess it depends how seamless the transitions are. What do you think?

I'm using another one of Kaadray's Hack Utilities (tm) to split the files and make sure they are split on packet boundaries. In fact, you can't specifiy how big to make the files, or by time, I specify by # of packets, since the original goal for the app was something different. It just turned out to be useful for this. The roku seems to handle streams that don't start on packets, but I figured it couldn't hurt.

I may try it with some smaller segments to see if I start to notice the transitions. Most of my points of reference are with some Deadwood and Sopranos captures before 5c came to me last week. For a 50 minute show I only needed ~4-5 parts to not run into Roku's freezes, and I didn't notice those 3-4 transitions. I may notice if there are 100.

It only takes a short time to write any of these segments for a 50 minute show, but I think you are right that it would start to be a noticable/annoying time to break up a 2 hour movie. I didn't time shift any feature length movies before I lost the ability to capture premium channels, though.

Originally posted by EatingPie
I'm interesting in going TS --> PS --> TS. I have alot of hosed up content with audio drop out, and I'm hoping a transcode to Program Stream and back may eliminite it.
I just did a similar test with a badly messed up ts recording of Star Wars. It was virtually unplayable with VirtualDVHS and I just re-output it as a new transport stream using VLC's advanced output options (I did not convert to a program stream as suggested above). VLC essentially cleaned the stream and it now plays flawlessly in VirtualVDHS with the exception of the 1st minute of so although there may have been a problem with the original feed during that time period. It also only took about 10 minutes to re-output. This seems like a great new use for VLC!

rcliff - I have tried to get VLC to work as you described, but simply cannot. Can you PLEASE (please please please!!!) note your settings for VLC and post them here. That way I can accomplish the same as you.

TIA!

-PIe

Originally posted by EatingPie
rcliff - I have tried to get VLC to work as you described, but simply cannot. Can you PLEASE (please please please!!!) note your settings for VLC and post them here. That way I can accomplish the same as you.

TIA!

-PIe Pie, did you try this and end up with a stream that was equal or worse than the original or is the output not working at all due to some other reason?

Well, what I meant was... what the heck do you do to get VLC to produce a new file? No matter what I tried, I got some sort of error dialog popping up and no output...

BUT, I figured it out!! Turns out I was trying too hard... changing settings every which way but up. The real solution was simple.

I went to the "Stream Output" Preferences in VLC, typed a path to a file (very important to enter a vald path) and unchecked "Display while Streaming." I then just double clicked/played the file which needed cleaning... And viola!! (Translation: w00t!)

Even my HBO cap of Star Wars -- which was a pixelated disaster on my Mits 73711 -- now plays with only a few sound drop outs. A Matrix cap I d/led which wouldn't even play through my 30K now plays almost perfectly as well.

This was exactly what I was hoping for! Say what you want about the French, but VLC has gotta be in my top-5 best applications ever. :)

-Pie

Pie, glad you got it working. The process is even simplier than what you described. All you need to do is go to the open dialog and browse to your file, then click advanced output and click the file radio button then browse to select the output path and name. Make sure encapsulation method is on TS and hit OK twice for each dialogue.

I spoke to soon when I said the output was flawless. There were a few audio glitches but they were minimal and it was quite watchable. Before cleaning with VLC it was totally unwatchable. For all I know the problems that remained after cleaning were present in the original broadcast stream.

kaadray,

Any news on your program to record 5C=0 content?

Originally posted by rcliff
Pie, glad you got it working. The process is even simplier than what you described. All you need to do is go to the open dialog and browse to your file, then click advanced output and click the file radio button then browse to select the output path and name. Make sure encapsulation method is on TS and hit OK twice for each dialogue.

I spoke to soon when I said the output was flawless. There were a few audio glitches but they were minimal and it was quite watchable. Before cleaning with VLC it was totally unwatchable. For all I know the problems that remained after cleaning were present in the original broadcast stream.

Pie, rcliff,

Is it possible to to have VLC output a new file that could then be edited in an app like Final Cut Pro or iMovie? All the m2t and ts files I have currently can't be edited in any Mac app that I know of.

I noticed in the settings that there were other encapsulation options like Quicktime, MPEG4, etc. I would try it now, but it's 1:36 AM, it's giving me errors and I'm too tired to mess with it. ;)

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
kaadray,

Any news on your program to record 5C=0 content?

Joe,

Sorry, I havent' followed this thread for the last few days. Has kaadray mentioned working on a 5C app?

Originally posted by swartzfeger
Joe,

Sorry, I havent' followed this thread for the last few days. Has kaadray mentioned working on a 5C app?

In the Motorola box context, 5C=0 means "in the clear" content or, even better, "copy freely" content. I do not want to load up the DVR with 5C=0 content. Since it only has an 80 GB HDD, I prefer to reserve space for the 5C=1 content ("copy once").

I have reimplemented most of the firewire functionality from scratch. I am pretty close to putting it out with just manual recording (like the current app) so people can tell me if I broke anything. The stuff in the original AVC application is good for demo code, but there are a lot of assumptions, etc... so I am trying to get a better foundation to work from.

I've done a little work on the manual scheduling (meaning, automatically recording, but you need to manually enter the time/channel). It shouldn't be a lot of work for basic operation.

I have done nothing to look at integrating with things like zap2it to make it easier to one-click schedule a recording.

The main hurdles will be stupid things like the Motorola not changing to channels ending in zero - basically handling that type of weird stuff so that it works reliably for all times and all channels, etc.

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
I have seen the commands for concatenate but not for splitting up MPEG2-TS files that will playback in sequence seamlessly.

As long as you have a valid transport stream, splitting it up is really easy. I was playing around and made a little perl script to do it and it worked fine.

There's a Null Packet Stripper utility that you can download that will also split up TS files, and maybe join them. You can get it at http://www.hometheatersoftware.com/

Scott

swartz -

I have no idea if VLC can get the .ts "editable" in FCP, since I don't have any editing apps. I have also been completely unsuccessful at transcoding using VLC. It supposedly can be done, but nobody has been able to say exactly how. If you have success, please post how/what you did!

-Pie

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
In the Motorola box context, 5C=0 means "in the clear" content or, even better, "copy freely" content. I do not want to load up the DVR with 5C=0 content. Since it only has an 80 GB HDD, I prefer to reserve space for the 5C=1 content ("copy once").

Not being a smart @ss, but why would you be curious about the progress of the 5C=0 app if you're not interested in the content? (Just asking out of curiosity, your question threw me off)

I'm in the same boat -- other than a few 5C=0 INHD concerts, I'm mostly interested in backing up my favorite 5C=1 shows (ie, HBO's Deadwood and Carnivale). Thankfully, I just purchased an ext 7200rpm 160GB FW drive, so I have a little more latitude in terms of storage.

Originally posted by swartzfeger
Not being a smart @ss, but why would you be curious about the progress of the 5C=0 app if you're not interested in the content? (Just asking out of curiosity, your question threw me off)

I'm in the same boat -- other than a few 5C=0 INHD concerts, I'm mostly interested in backing up my favorite 5C=1 shows (ie, HBO's Deadwood and Carnivale). Thankfully, I just purchased an ext 7200rpm 160GB FW drive, so I have a little more latitude in terms of storage.

A good question. I want to timeshift 5C=0 content but not on the 6208 DVR since it only has a 80 GB HDD and since it is presently not expandable. As a result, I would like to reserve the space on the DVR HDD for 5C=1 content. On the other hand, I have unlimted storage potential for the Mac to timeshift 5C=0 content.

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
A good question. I want to timeshift 5C=0 content but not on the 6208 DVR since it only has a 80 GB HDD and since it is presently not expandable. As a result, I would like to reserve the space on the DVR HDD for 5C=1 content. On the other hand, I have unlimted storage potential for the Mac to timeshift 5C=0 content.

Duh, understood -- I didn't realize the 6208 is a DVR!

Originally posted by EatingPie
swartz -

I have no idea if VLC can get the .ts "editable" in FCP, since I don't have any editing apps. I have also been completely unsuccessful at transcoding using VLC. It supposedly can be done, but nobody has been able to say exactly how. If you have success, please post how/what you did!

-Pie

Well there are tools for the .TS stream out of the JVC camcorder. Heuris (http://www.heuris.com/MPEGProducts/IndieHDToolkit/indie.htm) has ones for sale, and there are some freeware stuff you can use. The problem is Heurs is only good with a stereo (PCM?) track, and that with the freeware stuff after demuxing (separating audio from video--which can then be edited by FCP) you have to edit both stream, then mux them back. I'm not sure that there is anything that can edit and AC3 file, in it's 'compressed' form, so you'll be rather limited.

Sigh ...

5C update happen yesterday here in Atlanta.

So I'm locked out of every single channel on the box EXCEPT the must carry OTA channels.

Why on earth did they lock out the analog stations, basic cable digital stations, AND the "free" HD channels like espnhd, and inhd ?

HBO/Cinemax/etc I can understand but why the others, which are essentially basic cable, too?

Seems to me like they just wanna kill off any other option besides their own DVR, which means they make more money renting units at a $5 premium.

Oh well - it was fun while it lasted ... at least we can still capture OTA channels (and a LOT more reliably than OTA)

- litz

Originally posted by litz
...Seems to me like they just wanna kill off any other option besides their own DVR, which means they make more money renting units at a $5 premium.
...
Bingo! I believe you have identified the relevant issue. Using 5C they can shut out any legitimate competitive product and have criminal law (DMCA) serve as their enforcer. I guess we can be grateful that the FCC has prohibited them from locking out the OTA stations (so far). However, in my case this just reinforces my decision not to buy cable services at all since I can get the HD OTA stations without paying anyone a monthly fee for the privilege. I'm surprised such a large percentage of people feel it is worth $100 per month (reported in another thread for HD cable with HD premium channel) to get that additional content. But that is one of the wonderful things about American culture. Everyone gets to make their own choices.

Is it possible to to have VLC output a new file that could then be edited in an app like Final Cut Pro or iMovie? All the m2t and ts files I have currently can't be edited in any Mac app that I know of.

I found this the other day and it looks interesting...

LumiereHD (http://www.lumierehd.com/lumiere_hd.php)

From the specs: "Converts the captured HDV clips into QuickTime friendly HD MPEG-2 video format (online), via lightning-fast batch processing."

Says it works with these HDV cameras and decks via IEEE-1394 FireWire:

- JVC JY-HD10U
- JVC HM-DH30000U
- JVC GR-HD1
- JVC CU-VH1

The price isn't too bad either...

Dennis

Thing is this ...

Federal law states they HAVE to give us the option of recording to DVHS any programming we could normally record via analog outputs.

That's the whole point behind 5C.

What they're doing is this - betting people won't want to deal with videotape, and will buy their DVR service.

Since you can't timeshift DVHS, and you can timeshift DVR, they've intentionally made it as difficult as possible for someone to not use their product and still timeshift TV.

I want to see what's gonna happen when the mandated "cablecards" come into existence and people can buy their own cable reception equipment.

How long, do you think, before someone has a hacked TIVO-like device up and running for offline archiving a-la 169time for the Direct-TV service?

Cable has traditionally dragged its heels in ANY way possible to prevent consumers from using their own equipment for reception. First it was analog cable boxes (they got a law passed making it flat-out illegal to own your own cable box, under the assumption you were using it to steal premium service). Then cable modems, and now HD boxes.

They technologied their way out of the analog box problem, and had to give in on cable modems (the MAC addresses on them do make them more controllable) but they've dug in their heels on the digital cable boxes, claiming it's impossible to regulate or control.

Granted, the system they worked out with their suppliers for the digital boxes used security specifically designed to MAKE this impossible, otherwise there is no reason at all someone couldn't buy their own DCT-6208. They did this of their own choice, to prevent private ownership.

(soapbox mode off)


- litz

For anyone interested in the PVR app, I posted the initial rewrite of the manual record functionality. Any feedback that it does work/ does not work for manual recording from your device(s) with your computer would be appreciated so I can fix device problems while adding the timed recording aspect. Computer info, OS version (e.g., 10.3.2 as opposed to "Panther"), and specific device models would be great.

Please read the status and notes and/or the associated readme file for additional info.

It is OX 10.3.x only, or possibly 10.2 with the FireWire 19 SDK, but I have not tested the latter.

http://home.comcast.net/~macpvr/

I'll be checking PMs and the email on that site in addition to this thread if you prefer one of those for feedback.

Hopefully it works and I can finish up the timed recordings code :D.

I should add that it will not see a device it any AV/C Browser app or variant is already open.

Rcliff,

Thanks for compiling all of the information and presenting it in a logical and easy to understand way. Information like this will help some of us newbies take the next step.

Thanks again,
mjc

Originally posted by mjc
Rcliff,

Thanks for compiling all of the information and presenting it in a logical and easy to understand way. Information like this will help some of us newbies take the next step.

Thanks again,
mjc
Thanks, I'm glad this info is useful. And many thanks to Joe, Kaadray, FriarWyer and others for adding so much to this thread! This thread has grown to be much more than I expected and it's great to see we have Mac enthusiasts here at AVS.

If anyone has two FireWire out devices they use together, such as a T165 and a 62xx (but not two of the same, such as two T165s), and is willing to do some testing of the scheduled recording app, please send me a pm.

Thanks.

Is this still the best thread to use to get started or does the synopsis thread have all the necessary links? The 600+ messages in this thread is quite a bit for someone who has not been following this.

I did a search for 10.3.4 in both threads and did not find any matches, so I assume this question has not been raised. I have this version on my G5 and am not sure if I should download SDK 19. This appears to be the latest but from what I see is intended for 10.3.3. If I download SDK 19 I'm wondering if that would replace any 10.3.4 components with 10.3.3.

I also read a few messages about issues with SDK 19 versus 18, and have not seen if the questions have been resolved.

At this point I'm not sure what to do. Appreciate any suggestions.

John

You should be fine with 10.3.4 (it was Panther itself that had the correct APIs.) The SDKs are needed if you want to use the various Firewire apps (DVHSCap, VirtualDVHS, A/VBrowser, etc.), no need to install the extra packages (that was for those running Jaguar.) As for 18 vs 19, 19 just has some more recent builds of the aforementioned apps.

Well, I've made my first recording this weekend and was only midly successful!

The recording actually went fine (AFAIK), but playback has been a bit of an issue. Any pointers or suggestions will be appreciated....

The recording path was: SA3250->PowerBook G3 (Lombard) w/FireWire CardBus card->SMB Shared drive (NTFS) over 100Mbit Ethernet.

I then tried to playback the file from the Windows machine it was actually recorded to. I used VLC 0.7.2 under Windows 2000.

The problems are that the m2t file doesn't play back audio except for the occasional stutter, and that movement seems to show tearing/interlacing artifacts. I'm guessing I have one (or more) of the following problems:

1) Writing the m2t file over a network connection to an SMB share didn't work well.
2) The stream is actually corrupt.
3) My playback machine isn't powerful enough to deal with the stream
4) My VLC settings are all screwed up.

I don't think the network is a problem. A test recording made by writing the m2t file directly to my local PowerBook drive exhibits the same problems when subsequently copied to the Windows playback machine and played.

I don't know how to check if the stream is actually corrupt, so any pointers there would be welcome. Also, I don't know what kind of hardware requirements I would need on a PC to playback one of these files. Lastly, VLC has a bazillion options when running on a PC, and I'm sure I can do some optimization there....

Any ideas?

Best,
Brad

Originally posted by bspachman
Well, I've made my first recording this weekend and was only midly successful!

The recording actually went fine (AFAIK), but playback has been a bit of an issue. Any pointers or suggestions will be appreciated....

The recording path was: SA3250->PowerBook G3 (Lombard) w/FireWire CardBus card->SMB Shared drive (NTFS) over 100Mbit Ethernet.

I then tried to playback the file from the Windows machine it was actually recorded to. I used VLC 0.7.2 under Windows 2000.

The problems are that the m2t file doesn't play back audio except for the occasional stutter, and that movement seems to show tearing/interlacing artifacts. I'm guessing I have one (or more) of the following problems:

1) Writing the m2t file over a network connection to an SMB share didn't work well.
2) The stream is actually corrupt.
3) My playback machine isn't powerful enough to deal with the stream
4) My VLC settings are all screwed up.

I don't think the network is a problem. A test recording made by writing the m2t file directly to my local PowerBook drive exhibits the same problems when subsequently copied to the Windows playback machine and played.

I don't know how to check if the stream is actually corrupt, so any pointers there would be welcome. Also, I don't know what kind of hardware requirements I would need on a PC to playback one of these files. Lastly, VLC has a bazillion options when running on a PC, and I'm sure I can do some optimization there....

Any ideas?

Best,
Brad What's the specs on the windows machine you're using for playback? There could also be issues with the cardbus firewire card you're using. I'm not sure that anyone else has done this using that type of card.

Well, I've been using my basic PVR app for a few days now and am ready for some other people to use it, if interested. There is a lot it does not do yet, but I am looking to get some feedback on the core functionality that is there before I start enhancing it, particularly with devices I do not have.

So, if you are interested, are willing to make at least a minimal effort to describe the conditions under which things fail for you, will not be upset if something goes wrong and it does not record one of your programs :mad: (so far so good for me, but you never know), I'll make it available to the first one or two people who PM with a particular device or device combintation. Please let me know your source device (62xx/T165/SAxxxx/etc).

Right now you can
- Add recording events with name, start and end time, channel number, and device
- Change channels if it is a Motorola 62xx
- Override scheduled events with manual recording control
- Specify the record location.

Originally posted by rcliff
What's the specs on the windows machine you're using for playback? There could also be issues with the cardbus firewire card you're using. I'm not sure that anyone else has done this using that type of card.

Starting with the early part of the chain, the FireWire card I'm using is a Western Digital card. I've had it for a couple of years now, and it generally works flawlessly. Knowing that CardBus is a 32-bit data path, I'm wondering if there's some limit here...

As for playback, I've got a Windows 2000 machine running a 1.8Ghz P4. The video card is a Radeon 7000 VE (I think). I'm definitely more comfortable in the Macintosh world, but there are just certain HTPC things that must be done with Windows :(

Anyone else using a P4 chip for m2t file playback? What kind of specs?

Best,
Brad

Anyone have problems with glitches when moving to the 6208? I had perfect recordings with both 7.07 and 7.10 firmware on the 6200, but am getting horrible results with the 6208 with 7.07. There isn't a clean frame to be found for anyone channel at any bitrate.

Expecting a FW Cable box to arrive today.

1) What is the reason for not using the SDK19 version? (Running 10.3.4)
2) Any tools for manipulating the .ts streams or combining .ts streams?

Thanks.

Originally posted by kaadray
Anyone have problems with glitches when moving to the 6208? I had perfect recordings with both 7.07 and 7.10 firmware on the 6200, but am getting horrible results with the 6208 with 7.07. There isn't a clean frame to be found for anyone channel at any bitrate.

Yes, 7.07 on the 6208 yields glitched archives for all channels. I understand 7.10 on the 6208 resolves this. I spoke with someone at the headend about getting 7.10 but was told that it would come from the DAC. I understand that 7.10 is on the 6208 in the Boston area. So, it might be coming soon.

I have a G5, 10.3.4. Downloaded SDK 19 (asked and was told in a response there were no problems with SDK 19).

My TV is a Mits WS65813, and source devices are 2 HD DirecTV TiVos, one connected via DVI, the other via component. I assume the source to the TV is not relevant to recording from the TV to the G5.

I have no problems getting the TV to recognize the G5. Once Virtual DVHS was started the first time with the connection to the TV, NetCommand recognized the new device and I followed the menu to add it. Now whenever I start Virtual DVHS, the G5 will show up as a 1394 DVCR in the Device List. (I believe this confirms I do not need AVC Browser to facilitate the connection.)

I have dragged a folder over the DVHS icon and confirmed its location in DVHS Preferences.

I have not put any parameters in the DVHS Screen such as Channel or Speed - if I am supposed to do that, I don't know where to get those parameters.

I have tried recording two ways without success.

First try, just assuming the Mit would automatically output source to the 1394 device, I selected the Record button on the right side of the DVHS window. Transport state indicated Recording, time started, and a file appeared in the Transport Streams Library but stayed at zero bytes.

Second try, I started DVHS to get the G5 recognized by the TV, and hit the record button on the TV Remote. Even though the 1394 DVCR is listed in the device list, NetCommand has not found a recordable device and I cannot do anything further from the TV.

Appreciate any suggestions,

John

Cannot get recording to work

The Mits TV will only let you record to the VirtualDVHS (or any other FireWire tape/disk) from the built-in OTA ATSC tuner, or from another FireWire device. You cannot record an analog or DVI signal, as there is no built-in HD MPEG encoder, which is what would be needed for streaming over firewire.

When using the Mits TV and the VirtualDVHS app, you will not need to interact directly with the transport controls on the VirtualDVHS screen. All transport control is handled via NetCommand from the TV.

-- FriarWyer

Originally posted by FriarWyer
The Mits TV will only let you record to the VirtualDVHS (or any other FireWire tape/disk) from the built-in OTA ATSC tuner, or from another FireWire device. You cannot record an analog or DVI signal, as there is no built-in HD MPEG encoder, which is what would be needed for streaming over firewire.

When using the Mits TV and the VirtualDVHS app, you will not need to interact directly with the transport controls on the VirtualDVHS screen. All transport control is handled via NetCommand from the TV.

-- FriarWyer

I was afraid of that.

I guess my assumption "I assume the source to the TV is not relevant to recording from the TV to the G5." was more a hope.

Are there any devices around that will input both DVI and component containing HD signals, and both 1) output the same signals and 2) convert to firewire to pass to the Mit. or directly to the G5?

John

Originally posted by Killroy
Is anyone using the Roku HD-1000 to stream .ts files from their Mac to the their TV or PJ??? How is the quality and how difficult is it to do??? Is the audio going through OK??? Does it handle DD 5.1??? I have read some people are doing it but they are using PC's so I am looking for a Machead...

Thanks

I don't do it very often at all, but it does work. Pretty sure I was getting 5.1 no problem. The OS x samba implementation may still leave something to be desired though. I would get audio dropouts while doing something on my machine (old G4) at the same time. Of course there are other issues around the HD-1000 hanging due to DHCP problems and lack of real built-in playback controls.

Scott

Originally posted by Killroy
OK...for the second time I have updated to 10.3.4 and my playback has been screwed up...I get really bad skips and sound problems.

For reference I am using an eMac 700 with VirtualDVHS from the Firewire SDK18. I playback to a Samsung T-165. I also record from a SA 3250 with no problems and the 10.3.4 update did not seem to have a problem in that department.

You might want to try SKD19--that is for Panther (18 was for Jaguar-aka 10.2.) Is your hard drive really fragmented, might be streaming too slow?
I haven't checked playback recently (with 10.3.4), but, I haven't heard others having problems, on this thread at least. The one thing is that it might be that the recording/stream is bad, and that it's trying to play back a bad stream? Can you play back clips in VLC? It would also be nice if you could play back with the SA (so far no cable box it two-way) to see if it's hardware or software.
There is a discussion in the 169time/AVX thread that the T165 chokes on even slightly 'corrupted' streams, so the VLC test might be good (though make sure you've got the latest VLC, and make the window half-size, so you have a hope of playing an HD clip--my 800MHz TiBook can barely play back 720P at full resolution.)

Originally posted by rcliff
The SA boxes will not output via firewire to Mits TVs right now. The SA box mutes the firewire output because the Mits does not correctly respond to emergency broadcast signals. I know this sounds crazy but apparently this is the problem now. I was told this should be resolved very soon but rollout times to various cable providers will likely vary.

rcliff, do you or anybody have updated information as to whether SA has resolved or addressed this issue?

Thanks,
Mark

Originally posted by mpleone
rcliff, do you or anybody have updated information as to whether SA has resolved or addressed this issue?

Thanks,
Mark I just checked and it seems to be fixed on my box now. There is an odd delay of about 10 seconds before a picture is shown on the Mits after switching to the SA device. I haven't tried recording yet but will shortly.

Recording from the SA4200HD to Virtual DVHS does work but the SA box seems to be very finicky about any changes to the firewire bus. Any time you change a connection anywhere on the bus or launch VirtualDVHS the box hangs for at least ten seconds and sometimes you need to change channels to restore the picture. Also, AVC browser will mute the firewire output when you hit connect. Fortunately you can still record with Virtual DVHS by manually changing the firewire channel from 0 to 1 before hitting record.

Cliff, does your SA4200HD use SARA? If so, what version is it using? Do the SA3250HD and SA4200HD use the same firmware?

Originally posted by mpleone
Cliff, does your SA4200HD use SARA? If so, what version is it using? Do the SA3250HD and SA4200HD use the same firmware?
SARA v 1.55.6.4 date 5/26/04
still firebus 2.5.7.1

The firewire implementation seems to be very flaky on this box,

Thanks to some great feedback from people from this thread, iRecord 0.2.6 is available for download. With a version < 1.0, it is still a work in progress, but should be useful for at some of you, particularly if you have a Motorola box. Please keep the feedback coming.

http://home.comcast.net/~macpvr/irecord.html

This looks interesting:
http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyetv500

Originally posted by rezzy
This looks interesting:
http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyetv500 Looks cool but it can only record OTA ATSC. It integrates with TitanTV for scheduling but only with it's internal tuner so there's no way to record cable or satellite.

Originally posted by rcliff
Looks cool but it can only record OTA ATSC. It integrates with TitanTV for scheduling but only with it's internal tuner so there's no way to record cable or satellite.
I suspect you have correctly summarized the situation with respect to cable and satellite. But if Elgato has been as careful with this device as it has been with previous products it may be the best solution for OTA HD on the computer. We'll have to wait for actual experience with it before reaching such a conclusion but their integration with TitanTV in previous devices is certainly better than what DVico provided. Since it runs on Mac OS X I don't expect to have a problem with crashing because I mistakenly launch another application. Currently VLC and FusionHDTV can cause XP to crash unless I log out and log back in after running VLC and before launching FusionHDTV.

I'm very interested in how they provide the viewer application on the Mac and how much computing power it requires. The current version of VLC is just slightly underpowered for displaying HD on my 450 MHz G4 Mac. I believe these guys are connected at Apple so I wonder if they have access to the H.264 codec that Apple has announced but only plans to ship with Tiger in '05.

It integrates with TitanTV for scheduling but only with it's internal tuner so there's no way to record cable or satellite.
Yeah, but there's always the SDK.

Will try recording from eyeTV 500 and Virtual DVHS simulataneously via FW Cable and OTA of course when it arrives. We may be able to playback and edit our VirtualDVHS, MyHD, and HiPix captures with it. Software based playback is at the limit on my Dual 500 and will not work at full screen on my PBG4. Will now be able to compare how playback works with firewire based hardware tuner. It does NTSC too apparently. Which MyHD is struggling to do now.

After following this thread for a couple months I've finally jumped into the fray with my gear. I've got observations and glitches/outstanding issues. First, Comcast Seattle dropped off a Motorola 6200 three days ago. That day, I got my Powerbook G4-1.25 to successfully record with the methods listed here, although I haven't used iCal yet.

kaadray, iRecord is a great piece of software with a lot of potential. It worked immediately on my PB. I have not, however, gotten it to work on my desktop Powermac G4-466 - or at least whatever it is producing on that machine will not open in VLC on either machine. I am getting proper bitrates and big files, but no image pops up and VLC just kind of "hangs" without doing anything. Using Virtual D-VHS on the desktop works, though. But as I said, on the PB, iRecord works great.

One question I have: is there a difference in the actual file format that is produced by iRecord vs. Virtual D-VHS? I notice one uses .ts, the other .m2t.

Second, the only way I could get any of this to work on my desktop machine was to remove a Macally PCI firewire card that I had in it. I couldn't connect to the Motorola 6200 using it, and as long as it was in the machine, although I could change channels with iRecord and AVC Browser, I'd get zero bitrate and empty files.

Finally - I want to archive some Tour stages onto DVD (yes, using this method is ridiculous seeing as how it's not in HD, but I didn't want to buy new hardware). I've gotten both DIVA and ffmpegX to transcode the transport stream to other formats (not sure if ffmpegX changed it to the RIGHT format) but as others have pointed out here, I'm still SOL on the audio. Maybe using a very slow Virtual PC process will be the only answer.

Thanks for the feedback. It is always good to know what is working or not (hint to anyone who is using it and hasn't sent a message one way or the other ;))

I'm am not sure what is going wrong on the G4 off the top of my head (unless by chance you only selected 5c protected channels on that machine with iRecord, and happened to pick all clear channels with VDHVS and on the PB), but I'll think about it.

For the specific questions:

Originally posted by quickdrawMX42000

One question I have: is there a difference in the actual file format that is produced by iRecord vs. Virtual D-VHS? I notice one uses .ts, the other .m2t.


Same file format. I noticed that VLC and some other PC apps recognized .ts and .tp, but VDVHS seemed to be the only app that used .m2t, so I changed the default extension.



Second, the only way I could get any of this to work on my desktop machine was to remove a Macally PCI firewire card that I had in it. I couldn't connect to the Motorola 6200 using it, and as long as it was in the machine, although I could change channels with iRecord and AVC Browser, I'd get zero bitrate and empty files.


I'm not familiar with the machine - so there is a built in FW and you had a card as well? If so, I believe the FireWire libs handle this ok for asynchrounous connections (such as the tuning commands) so it just works, but for isynchronous (the streams) I am just looking at first interface I find so I am probably trying to make a connection on the wrong interface. I'll put it on the todo list to clean up, but I don't have a machine with two FW interfaces so I'm not sure what will happen :D

I have a Moto 6208 with the 7.07 firmware hooked up to my 800MHz powerbook G4 and am able to record just fine. I noticed some dropped frames and a few glitches, but I surmise this will be fixed in the 7.10 firmware... My question is how can I get the 6208 to playback the .m2t files I have stored on my powerbook? It is underpowered and cannot playback the HD streams at their native resolution in VLC.

Sorry if this has been answered before, I read through the first 10 pages and noticed there was 25 more!

Sam

Originally posted by SamMiller0
I have a Moto 6208 with the 7.07 firmware hooked up to my 800MHz powerbook G4 and am able to record just fine. I noticed some dropped frames and a few glitches, but I surmise this will be fixed in the 7.10 firmware... My question is how can I get the 6208 to playback the .m2t files I have stored on my powerbook? It is underpowered and cannot playback the HD streams at their native resolution in VLC.

Sorry if this has been answered before, I read through the first 10 pages and noticed there was 25 more!

Sam

You can't play back thru the STB. You need something like Roku's HD 1000 if you want to play it back on your TV or FP.

I just recently hooked up an eyeTV 500 to my dual 500 Mhz/G4 which I then output to my Hitachi 5500 front projector.

The quality appears quite good and I don't have any issues either watching HD in live mode, or when playing back a stream. Its when you have two windows open at the same time that you get the herky jerky. I talked to one of the El Gato reps at WWDC this year to feel him out about how well my machine would handle it and he was very up front about the capbilities/limitations. Since the majority of my viewing is SD content from my two ReplayTVs and DVD content on my Mac, there shouldn't be much in the way of an issue about watching one show while recording another.

They also just came out with an update of the software (version 1.5) that I haven't tried yet.

The integration with TitanTV is pretty nice, though I hope they'll take advantage of the Safari web engine built into Panther and make this integrated more tightly with the product sometime in the future. So far so good!

Kevin

Originally posted by imlucid
I just recently hooked up an eyeTV 500 ... So far so good!
I apologize for being the bearer of possibly bad news. Seth Finkelstein announced in a discussion on Slashdot that the EyeTV 500 is Broadcast Flag compliant a year earlier than currently necessary. This means that others will decide what you can and cannot record. Oh, I know their shills will pop up and claim this has nothing to do with people making personal copies but I think there are more than a few cynics who see this as a first step to put the genie back in the bottle. The eventual goal being the elimination of fair use as a relevant fact. It will still be on the books but you will be in violation of federal "police state" laws like the DMCA (can you guess which side I favor?).

If it is true that the EyeTV 500 has implemented the anti-consumer "broadcast flag" one year early let's remind them who buys (or does not buy) their products by boycotting all BF compliant products.

I recently got a moto DCT-6200 installed from Cox-West Texas and I can not get system profiler AV/C Browser or Subunit explorer to recognize it. I have in System Profiler Two Fire Wire devices and an ipod. I am Running 10.3.4 tried both 18 and 19 releases of the FW SDK and have tried the manual connection instructions all with no luck all i get are the two fire wire devices when the box is plugged in and the ipod. BTW i have tried removing the ipod and also connecting the ipod into the STB and the ipod appears on my mac.) PLEASE HELP!

If it is true that the EyeTV 500 has implemented the anti-consumer "broadcast flag" one year early let's remind them who buys (or does not buy) their products by boycotting all BF compliant products.

I'm not sure that its really all that relevant for OTA stuff is it?

Personally, I'm not too worried about it at the moment. If shows start preventing me from watching what I want in the way I want, I'll stop watching them.

I agree that logically it doesn't seem like it should be relevant to OTA but if that is the case why are they so adamant that there be a broadcast flag? In other words if they don't plan to pull the trigger why are they installing all those guns?

I think this is all a result of Sony vs Universal Pictures case that they lost narrowly years ago. They won't take a chance of losing again in court so they try to "pave over" what were previously citizen choices before people become aware of what is being taken. If it were only about entertainment programming it would be hard to take it seriously. But recall what happened in the case of Dmitry Sklyarov, a grad student from Moscow who was seized and held for months before a jury dismissed all charges against him. Then there was Jon Johanson who was prosecuted twice in Norway (and exonerated both times). Both resulting from DMCA and treaties and foreign laws associated with it. Professor Felton of Princeton University was being threatened by these thugs until they realized they were overplaying their hand and backed down (this was on the topic of audio watermarking technology). There are respected foreign authorities in cryptographic research who will not come to the US because of the demonstrated potential that powerful economic interests could have them arrested if their research proved troublesome.

Whenever I try to playback .ts files in VLC I get an error message:

coreaudio: failed to set buffer size: [nope]

Changing it to stereo (from Digital), eliminates the error, but the audio just sounds like static. Mplayer is also just static. I can play back to my DVHS just fine, but most of the time I want to view it on my Mac directly.

Ideas?

Jeremy

Okay. I just read through all 690 posts in this thread. It took me three days. It also convinced me that, for now anyway, I don't really want to mess around with recording HD content. (My "huge" 160GB external drive will quickly become tiny, for one thing.) Anyway, a couple questions:

1) For someone using a solution like EyeTV, which cannot change channels on an STB, could a limited version of some of this software be used to fulfill that function? (An extra firewire cable sounds better than a buggy and/or nonexistent IR blaster solution.)

2) Does anyone know whether Time Warner in NYC offers STBs that allow channel-changing over firewire (eg, as I understand things, a moto 6200 or Samsumg T165)?

You guys seems to be doing incredible stuff here. Really impressive.

I've just been exploring this thread, and I must say its pretty cool to see people doing these things on a Mac. I've been a Mac user since '85, and its always good to find new uses for the machines. My current machine is a dual 1 GHz G4, and I just ordered an external firewire enclosure for backup purposes and to provide room for backups and the DV footage from my video camera. Since I'm getting close to building an HT, I'm wondering if this is a realistic route to go in order to get PVR functionality. I've been eyeing either the EyeHome or Roku-1000. My house is wired with Cat6 so I ought to be good to go, and my cable company (Shaw) uses what I discovered today is a Motorola 6200. How well is all this going to work together, or is it going to feel like a hack all the time?

Hello again everybody!

ASword... To simulate PVR functionality will probably never be smooth as silk. But everything you want looks doable. How well the Roku handles the .ts will be the biggest question. (Some transport streams are "dirtier" than others, and different mpeg decoders give different results.)

Now on to a question of my own...

Is there an alternate Playback over Firewire solution other than VirtualDVHS? I saw the Lumiere link, but that's $175 for uncertain results.

I have an external drive with the .ts files sitting on my FW800 port, and my FW400 port shoots to my D-VHS decks and TV. When attempting to play back, I often get the "Your device has imporperly been put away" and my FW800 drive disappears. Once I quit Virtual DVHS it comes back, but I still reboot anyway. I also notice that my memory gets sucked up rather quickly during playback... and eventually I start getting audio and video dropouts.

So I seek a better firewire playback option. Any ideas?

-Pie

MPEG Streamclip

I noticed this application a couple of days ago -- I can't get it to playback my SIR-T165 OTA files, but it does play back some others. In addition to conversion, it seems to be able to play some transport streams through the QuickTime MPEG-2 playback component. It seems like it could be a very useful application after compatibility is enhanced.

http://www.alfanet.it/squared5/mpegstreamclip.html

Originally posted by EatingPie
ASword... To simulate PVR functionality will probably never be smooth as silk. But everything you want looks doable. How well the Roku handles the .ts will be the biggest question. (Some transport streams are "dirtier" than others, and different mpeg decoders give different results.)


I read a rather unflattering review of the Roku HD1000. That article definitely made it sound like the Roku is not ready for prime time yet... not even close. Perhaps the EyeHome is closer? Or the XBox (http://www.xboxmediacenter.de/)? Any other options to be evaluated?

I was definitely not too impressed with the eyeHome, especially if you're going to display it on a large size screen. It downsizes photos to stream to the box and then scales them up. Its DVD playing left something to be desired (plays individual .VOB files only).

Well that brings us down to a modded XBox, which is just LAME. Oh when is Apple going to save us and deliver a box that does what we need?

No, what we need is a Mac, PC, or Unix box (including Linux) running a modified VLC client that is set to full screen and defaults to reading its content across the net (ie open network stream). It should have DVI out that connects effortlessly to any HD display. It should come preconfigured and ready to run after connecting to power, the display, and the local network.

But seriously, have any of you played around with using VLC as server and client on a local network? It does a great job with DVD's both on the hard drive and in the DVD drive of the server, other MPEG content and specifically with transport streams recorded from an HDTV card all across the network. Other than cost, noise, etc the biggest obstacle is that VLC seems to be designed to be controlled from the server rather than the client. Anyone have available resources (ie capital) to rectify this slight shortcoming and produce the ideal HD home network client box?

I really would rather not have a machine with disks and fans in my media rooms. I've got the house wired for Ethernet so I just want thin clients that can access the main server from each room at reasonable cost. Processor, DVI output, possibly interface to tuner, Ethernet interface, IR control. The Roku hardware is close -- it just needs DVI and a beefier processor. Their software isn't ready for prime time yet, however.

You wouldn't have disks and fans in the media room, just a thin client capable of running one of the OSes, VLC and an ethernet interface. The server would be at the other end of the ethernet cable with all the media. Surprisingly VLC does a better job of playing an HD transport stream across the network than playing a DVD across the network. I suppose there needs to be a larger buffer for the DVD playing case. Someone has even done a server for EyeTV that allows the tuner's signal to be played with VLC on a remote machine. I've tried this with an original USB EyeTV to a PC running VLC under WinXP and it works.

That's pretty much what the Roku unit is -- its running Linux on a 300 MHz MIPS processor with dedicated MPEG decode hardware. Its an open source software platform so you could port VLC yourself, if you were so inclined. Its got 64 MB of RAM so a buffer isn't a problem.

While the Roku is a nifty proof of concept, my impression is that it is considerably underpowered (plus I am working on another project right now). VLC does a good job of extracting performance for transport stream rendering. It's fine on a 2 GHz Athlon under XP and almost there for a 450 MHz G4 under Mac OS X. I suppose the hardware MPEG decoder is supposed to make the difference but both the Roku and EyeHome have found that goal challenging. I've read, without anything remotely like confirmation, that both the Roku and EyeHome are based on the same hardware reference platform.

There are at least two nasty impediments to the concept of the living room media client. I have a MediaMVP from Hauppauge and no matter how well it performed otherwise the front end on a regular NTSC screen is hopeless. There just aren't enough pixels to do a decent job. The other challenge is what I allude to above: really capable TS rendering takes more power than initial educated estimates predict. Specifically when I first started looking for a software rendered HDTV tuner card the claims were that you would need at least 700 MHz Athlon. Ha, when I got a FusionHDTV tuner my experience was that an Athlon XP 2400+ was more like it.

The Roku has no problem decoding and outputting HD transport streams in ideal conditions. The problem is it's very buggy and doesn't provide sufficient playback control. If there are any problems with a stream the Roku likely quit the player or crash. Hopefully, Roku will address these problems through software updates but there are few signs of life from them lately.

Does anyone know of an OS-X MPEG re-muxer? I have a project where I output HD content converted from a proprietary format (a popular PVR, hacked, is all I can say here...) Anyway, to get the content into a standard format, someone has developed a linux or windows tool that converts it from proprietary to standard MPEG elements ).m2a and .m2v. Quote: The results of this program can be fed to mjpegtools' (http://mjpeg.sourceforge.net) mplex program to remux the streams into (hopefully) standard mpeg2. Included is a patch for the mplex program so that it will employ enough buffers to avoid under-runs at standard HD data rates. See INSTALL for installation instructions. The distribution includes source&Linux binary. I can get it demuxed under a version they compiled for Windows (no linux here), but no one can get mplex to complie and run properly in Windows to remux into a standard MPEG. Does anyone know of some Mac tools that will remux MPEG elements at an HD resolution? Would it be possible to port the linux version to Mac (or KDE, which I can run under X11?) I am a newbie w/ this stuff and have never compiled anything, but if there is a tool already out there, I would appreciate the info. Thanks!

Have you looked at ffmpegx (http://homepage.mac.com/major4/)?

About ffmpegX:

ffmpegX is a Mac OS X graphic user interface designed to easily operate more than 20 powerful Unix open-source video and audio processing tools including ffmpeg the "hyper fast video and audio encoder" (http://ffmpeg.sf.net/), mpeg2enc the open-source mpeg-2 encoder and multiplexer (http://mjpeg.sf.net/MacOS/) and mencoder the mpeg-4 encoder with subtitles support (http://sf.net/projects/mplayerosx).

I've been trying to use it to transcode from the streams generated by my eyeTV 500 to DVD 16x9 MPEG-2 and it seems to be working, though for some reason the audio isn't coming through. The video looks great though...

Dennis

mikemav,
If you can get your ES files into an MPEG program stream, try VideoLan. It will convert MPEG-PS to MPEG-TS.
-Dylan

hi guys, I got the virtual dvhs app going and recorded something from my Moto6208, however vlc will not play it back. The video window comes up for a sec, then goes away. I recorded it by playing back a recording i did from DiscoveryHD. Are there certain channels that are encrypted that I can not record/playback?

By the way I recently got 7.15 firmware on the 6208.


Thanks for info! Great thread.

Wow! 36 pages is a lot of info to cover AND remember.

Don't remember seeing anything regarding being able to watch HDTV in real-time through the setup described here. Is this possible? Or can I only watch recorded HD content?

HD STB-------1394------->Mac-------DVI------->display

Originally posted by anon-e-mouse
Wow! 36 pages is a lot of info to cover AND remember.

Don't remember seeing anything regarding being able to watch HDTV in real-time through the setup described here. Is this possible? Or can I only watch recorded HD content?

HD STB-------1394------->Mac-------DVI------->display

What STB are you using?

I have a choice of the SA3250 or the Pace 550-P (both can be set up with dual 1394).

These are HD cable converter boxes from TWC-San Diego.

Is there a reason you cannot connect your cable box directly to your TV?

If you want to use the DVI output on your mac instead of component on your cable box, I bet there's a way to have VLC play the .ts file as it's being written to the disk but I'm not too familiar with that.

If I connect the HD STB directly to the display device (projector) to watch real-time HDTV using the DVI cable then I would have to reconnect the DVI cable to my comp each time I wanted to play any recorded HDTV material.

I guess I'm wondering if the Mac can just pass through the HD signal to the display to get the real-time HDTV.

Originally posted by anon-e-mouse
If I connect the HD STB directly to the display device (projector) to watch real-time HDTV using the DVI cable then I would have to reconnect the DVI cable to my comp each time I wanted to play any recorded HDTV material.

I guess I'm wondering if the Mac can just pass through the HD signal to the display to get the real-time HDTV.

It can be done, it's being worked on, but no idea if and when it will actually be functional. If anyone else has the time or inclination to take it on/contribute, I'd be happy to explain where I am at and what more needs to be done. It's a relatively simple addition to VLC - just a bunch of little details finish implementing.

Of course, if you don't mind recording while watching with a small lag and deleting the file when done, you can record and watch at the same time as Sam suggests.

Originally posted by iamnotmad
hi guys, I got the virtual dvhs app going and recorded something from my Moto6208, however vlc will not play it back. The video window comes up for a sec, then goes away. I recorded it by playing back a recording i did from DiscoveryHD. Are there certain channels that are encrypted that I can not record/playback?

By the way I recently got 7.15 firmware on the 6208.


Thanks for info! Great thread.

Yes, in my area DiscoveryHD on the 6208 with 7.15 is encrypted and cannot be played back (on a computer).

kaadray - thanks for the info.

Another question for anyone....
Is there anyway to record SD TV using the firewire ports? From my understanding only HD comes out of these ports. (It is a little silly to have my Mac record HD & too still keep my Tivo to record SD now that TWCSD has come out with the SA8000HD which does both).

Maybe they will activate the firewire ports on the 8000HD in the near future & then we can use the info in this thread to archive the non-encrypted content.

I can record analog, digital, and high def channels through my firewire port on my Motorola 6208. I have the 7.07 firmware so there are some errors when recording, but it sort of works.

thanks, is there any way to tell what is encrypted and what is not?

Hmmm... is it possible to record an encrypted show and then send it BACK to the STB to be played?

Originally posted by SamMiller0
I can record analog, digital, and high def channels through my firewire port on my Motorola 6208. I have the 7.07 firmware so there are some errors when recording, but it sort of works.

So my motorola 6208 and mac are located in different rooms. I have transported the box over to the mac and followed the instructions here to connect with dvhs and all. It showed it connected, but it didn't load on the desktop like a virtual disk or anything.

Live recording and control really isn't want I'm look for. I would like to via firewire archieve some of the programming (non-encrpyted/std. digital), then with the dvd burner in my mac just make a disc. I know I could buy a dvd recorder, but it seems a waste when the content is already in digital form and my computer can do it. Is this possible?

I saw programs on the net for mac users with replay devices but not tivo or the mot-family?

Matt

Sam - That is interesting. I've read that only HD is sent over firewire. Maybe other HD STBs act like your Moto 6208. Anyone have experience with the SA3250 or Pace 550?

well, I have an elgato 500, and I can record OTA HDTV shows pretty easily. The setup is really nice; I am pretty happy with it. There are a few dropped frames on my 1.33GHZ PB, but I suspect this will change when Steve finally gets around to the shipping the PB G5.

one question though, if I had an HDTV with firewire inputs, and plugged in a firewire cable from my PB, would I able to display a picture? Can I output a DVD from my PB to the HDTV, via the firewire?

Originally posted by anon-e-mouse
... I've read that only HD is sent over firewire. ... One widespread counter example would be all those digital camcorders that use FireWire to send DV encoded video. That has been probably the main use of FireWire ports on Macs for years. Also Elgato makes an NTSC tuner box that uses FireWire to connect to the Mac. I pretty sure they are just using MPEG 1 for the video that is being sent to the Mac. In any case it is not HD.

I think it is more accurate to think of FireWire as a variant of ethernet which is capable of transporting bits for whatever application choose to use it (e.g. FireWire hard drives, webcams, HDTV, D-VHS, iPod, ...). For that matter you can even run TCP/IP over FireWire on the Mac with OS X and the PC using WinXP. So all apps that run over IP could use FireWire.

p.s. Oops, I just checked at Elgato and EyeTV 200 does use FireWire for standard def TV but MPEG2 is used to encode the analog TV source.

There are also Cat5/FireWire adaptors that let you run FireWire across standard Ethernet cables at 100MBps instead of the normal 400, but at greater distances. Handy if you're wired for Ethernet and not FireWire. You can't run Ethernet at the same time on the same cable, however.

FireWire is a general purpose I/O bus with some features that make it quite good at things like video (transfer modes with guaranteed bandwidth for a particular stream). It really is an awesome bit of technology and I hope it proliferates further than it has to date.

[Technically this isn't recording, but since half the people who email me about iRecord ask just about watching live, it seemed reasonable to ask this here.]

Is there anyone with a G5 that is willing to try a VLC module that lets you watch live without recording? I have it to the point where I can watch standard def channels glitch free, but I'm still having some problems with higher bitrates. I'd like someone with more horsepower (I have a dual G4 1Ghz) to give it a try so I can isolate whether it is just a CPU power problem, or if I am also doing something wrong that isn't bad enough to hurt at lower bitrates.

It is in early, early stages (your STB must be the only device on the bus, other limitations...), so it may take a couple tries to get going.

Just send a PM. Thanks.

Hello;
Can someone please remind me how to check the version info on Moto6200 box so I don't have to search back thru thread? I have been able to successfully record HD via FireWire in the past, but now can't seem to make it work (or SD channels for that matter) from either my G4 desktop or PB. It records a file, but when attempting to playback in VLC it shows nothing, just sits there. I am new Chicago on Comcast - does anyone know if they have ALL the channels encrypted now?
TIA,
Dave

Originally posted by anon-e-mouse
Sam - That is interesting. I've read that only HD is sent over firewire. Maybe other HD STBs act like your Moto 6208. Anyone have experience with the SA3250 or Pace 550?

Originally posted by vgoklani
one question though, if I had an HDTV with firewire inputs, and plugged in a firewire cable from my PB, would I able to display a picture? Can I output a DVD from my PB to the HDTV, via the firewire?
These two questions have basically the same answer.

Firewire can transport ANY video resolution. The trick is encoding that into a MPEG2 Transport Stream file (.ts or .m2t).

DVDs are already MPEG2, but they are in "Program Stream" format (for playback from a file). You cannot simply play a DVD over firewire, as it must be transcoded to 'Transport Stream" (for playback over a network). You can use VLC to transcode the DVD MPEG2 PS to an MPEG2 .ts file. Then you use VirtaulDVHS to play this .ts over firewire to your TV/D-VHS.

In VLC, select Preferences/Stream Output. Enter a filename, click OKAY, and start playback. I think this should do it.

-Pie

kaadray

You probably already know this, but maybe it is worth mentioning...

I found problems with dropouts and stutters while playing back MPEG streams from my tivo over ethernet were completely eliminated by setting mplayer to include a buffer of something like 8Meg or so. You are in a totally different situation, but maybe the idea of adding in a larger buffer would smooth out the stuttering.

Originally posted by eobiont
kaadray

You probably already know this, but maybe it is worth mentioning...

I found problems with dropouts and stutters while playing back MPEG streams from my tivo over ethernet were completely eliminated by setting mplayer to include a buffer of something like 8Meg or so. You are in a totally different situation, but maybe the idea of adding in a larger buffer would smooth out the stuttering.

Yeah, upping the buffer helped fixed the video problems but even with huge buffers I still am getting almost no audio so I'm probably still doing something wrong. I've got a few more things to try and maybe I'll get lucky.

So is there a good way to edit the resulting files?
(Sorry if this has been asked before...)

Can anyone recommend simple software for Mac OSX for editing transport streams? Essentially, I want to edit out commercials.

Can anyone recommend simple software for Mac OSX for editing transport streams?
EyeTV cuts commercials unlike any app including HDTV2MPEG. :D We just need an import function.

Is anyone working with Final Cut HD? I'm not sure if it or any other consumer -> prepro apps can import transport streams or the demuxed files for simple editing from other sources.

Is anyone working with Final Cut HD?
I can ask my brother, he works on the FCP team at apple.

Originally posted by imlucid
I can ask my brother, he works on the FCP team at apple. Somebody's gettin' a sweet hookup!

Well he wasn't sure off hand but his answer was...

"But I would guess that if Quicktime can support it, then we can :-)"

Somebody's gettin' a sweet hookup!
Yeah, I need to start milking him more. I haven't used FCP though since version 2.5 (since that was the last version I had access to). I've primarily used FCE and iMovie for the little projects I've been working on. But since my bro is now on the inside, I should be able to get more personal support! ;)

Quicktime doesn't support transport streams from anything through Apple. I haven't seen a third party codec for it, but I haven't looked that hard - I just use VLC for transport streams.

I have Final Cut Pro HD, and it is does not support the HD streams we talk about when discussing capturing from cable or OTA boxes. It supports a specific format (DVCPRO) that is, for example, typical of some HD cameras.

However, MPEG-2 transport streams are a fixed-length, packet based format that can generally survive indiscriment chopping. If you just need some rough editing, e.g. cut out the first 1/2 hour or something, it is pretty easy.

Most decoders I have fed are smart enough to search for a packet sync byte, which means you could arbitrarily chop the file anywhere, and it will still work. If you want to be careful, and you know the file starts on a sync byte (anything captured with Apple's FireWireMPEG library will be) you can just make sure you cut at 188 byte increments.

So anything you have that will split files will work. If you are comfortable with the terminal, just use the split command. You'll need to estimate where you want the cut(s) to be based on filesize and duration, but after a couple of iterations you will cut it where you want.

Since the decoder needs a little bit of program information that is interleaved with the data in the stream, you may want to leave a little room before the content you want so that you actually see the start you care about.

You can also use VLC to turn the transport stream into a program stream, and use any of the program stream tools to edit.

Mpeg Streamclip is an application for osx that opens ts files and allows you to convert and edit them. No support for AC3 sound as yet. It appears to have clipping functions but I have not tried that aspect of it.

http://www.alfanet.it/squared5/mpegstreamclip.html


Tim

Originally posted by Joseph S
EyeTV cuts commercials unlike any app including HDTV2MPEG. :D We just need an import function.

Is anyone working with Final Cut HD? I'm not sure if it or any other consumer -> prepro apps can import transport streams or the demuxed files for simple editing from other sources.

I thought there was. At least the users have requested it and the developer said it was in the works. If I remember correctly the 1.5 release could import transport streams. But, hopefully we can then convert back to a transport stream so we can dump to DVHS.
I'll try it with some captures, and see if I can get the process down.

My main goal is to be able to WATCH hdtv in real time (or fairly close to it) on my new 23" display. Recording for me will be an afterthought which will be nice to have.

1) Kaadray.. I am interested in testing out your VLC module... but I've heard VLC has been having audio problems on G5's. I have a dual 2ghz with 1.5 gb RAM.

2) Someone mentioned starting recording, and then watching that file with VLC as it records. Can the computer drives really handle this? Seems like that would be too much information to pass in and out at the same time?

3)What about this? I know a lot of (or all of) HDTV recievers you get from the cable company are currently hooking up over DVI or HDMI (Which I can convert to DVI.) What happens if I plug my 23" straight into the HDTV Receiver? Would that work? In which case I could just grab a DVI KVM switch and watching live would be a snap. Is the 'receiver' you get from the cable company the same thing as a 'tuner' that people have to buy if they buy a tv that is only hdtv compatible? Or will I need to buy something else?

Currently any other solutions for just watching HDTV on this monitor of mine?

Thanks guys,

Originally posted by sprynmr
My main goal is to be able to WATCH hdtv in real time (or fairly close to it) on my new 23" display. Recording for me will be an afterthought which will be nice to have.

3)What about this? I know a lot of (or all of) HDTV recievers you get from the cable company are currently hooking up over DVI or HDMI (Which I can convert to DVI.) What happens if I plug my 23" straight into the HDTV Receiver? Would that work? In which case I could just grab a DVI KVM switch and watching live would be a snap. Is the 'receiver' you get from the cable company the same thing as a 'tuner' that people have to buy if they buy a tv that is only hdtv compatible? Or will I need to buy something else?

Currently any other solutions for just watching HDTV on this monitor of mine?

Thanks guys,

3) plugging direct in will likely do nothing, or worst case destroy the display.
Check the various discussions in Apple's Discussion section (http://discussions.info.apple.com/). (Need to search more, can't find it.) But, the problem is that the 23" Cinema Display is not an ATSC (aka HDTV) resolution. So, you'll need to put the signal into a scalar to the display (there was a report on the Focus Enhancements Centerstage (http://www.focusinfo.com/products/centerstage/centerstage.htm) line that it could output the 1920x1200 for a 23" Cinema HD display, but, I can no longer find it.) The only other ways is to have a tuner that can interface with the Mac (say the eyetv 500 (http://elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyetv500), or someone is trying to write drivers for the DIVCO Fusion HDTV PCI card (http://htmug.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=295&sid=7aec3ad44ff5638cb6526ee1aea46ea8).) Since these options will certainly be cheaper than the scalar route (and you won't have to also get a DVI switcher so you can use the monitor for your Mac.)

Originally posted by sprynmr
... What happens if I plug my 23" straight into the HDTV Receiver? Would that work? ...
I think there are two issues with this possibility. First, if the connector on your HDTV receiver uses HDMI rather than DVI then you probably have an encrypted source which your Apple monitor is not designed to handle. If I'm wrong about HDMI definitely being encrypted or the Apple monitor not designed to work with 5C encryption (I haven't tried this setup personally) another possible issue is whether an unencrypted signal from your receiver would work with the input to your monitor directly. I've read from others that something like a scan rate converter which is fairly expensive might be required.

I'd certainly be interested if you get good results anyhow. There is nothing like plugging things in to see if they work.

Hmmm...

I guess we'll stick with the firewire option then. Hell I'm doing grad school at NYU, I can't afford to take chances with a $1900 monitor. Couldn't afford a replacement... like even a 15".

Anyway... so when time warner delivers my hdtv cable receiver with the firewire port I'm good to go right?

I'm pretty sure that answer is yes. Then my main question is.... how can I just feed it through for playback? I know everyone is wondering that and people are working on things.

I have a feeling either Apple or a 3rd party developer is going to release an app to do just that reaaaaal soon. But I'd like it sooner after watching the HD Sampler content that came with FCP HD. Droooool. I'm just dying to watch a football game on there.

~Bob

Originally posted by sprynmr
My main goal is to be able to WATCH hdtv in real time (or fairly close to it) on my new 23" display. Recording for me will be an afterthought which will be nice to have.


2) Someone mentioned starting recording, and then watching that file with VLC as it records. Can the computer drives really handle this? Seems like that would be too much information to pass in and out at the same time?

Thanks guys,

It handles it fine for me.

Hi all,

I spent the evening reading up on this thread (all 36 pages) and pretty much have a general understanding of everything. But I do have a question on the encrypted channel stuff.

I'm in New Orleans with Cox HD and right now have ABC, NBC, ESPN-HD, INHD, and INHD2. It looks like ESPN, INHD, and INHD2 have this encryption cause VLC won't play themback (I have 1.5GHZ Powerbook G4 FW800).

Now, from what I gathered this 5C encryption is what is preventing the playback, but is that only preventing VLC? If I connected my powerbook to something like the JVS DVHS deck, would VDHS stream the recording via the JVC deck to the TV fine? Or is that encryption still gonna be there?

Which kinda leads me to my 2nd question. The JVC deck. 5C is only on the firewire stream right? So if I'm thinking correctly I could have the Moto6200 to the JVC via component, then JVC to Powerbook via FW and all should work fine right? Then I could just push it back to the JVC to the TV for playback.

So basically....

1) would adding the JVC box in the middle of Powerbook -> TV allow playback of content recorded direct over FW from the Motorola 6200.

and

2) if not, I can just record the feed via the JVC deck to avoid the 5C encryption.

There's plenty of INHD/INHD2 shows that come on at work I'd love to watch so that's why I'm trying to figure this out. Hope all this makes sense and thanks!!!

Shaun

There has been varying success on using the 6200 to jvc though it is supposed to work.
Check over at the Comcast 5100/620x thread as there is alot of info over there.

Check the diag menu on the 6200, abc and others may be able to be recorded but it depends on your local provider. look for 5c=1 vs 5c=0.

good luck,
adam

I have the 6208 (DVR) and was wondering if anyone had tried or found a way to access the stored files directly? I can easily replay them and use the current method, but that takes as long as it takes to play it and it would be nice to be able to back some things up to DVD as the drive in the 6208 is only 80 gigs.

Also, kadraay - how things coming?

Originally posted by dudehey

Also, kadraay - how things coming?

Which thing - iRecord or the VLC module? I haven't had any time for the VLC module so I'm going to put it and the source up on my website and hope someone can pick it up. I can almost watch high def channels now, but there is a stuttering issue that maybe someone can resolve.

I meant both things actually. I will be sure to check it out anyway - HD on my computer isn't a priority, or very apt to work considering the usual load. I will also be looking at the source - I won't have much time to do anything with it myself this semester but maybe over winter break. I think I speak for everyone when I say thanks for the work you've done...

Hello pioneers!

First...this is an impressive, intense thread. You are all to be congratulated on your intelligence and persistence. I swear I attempted due diligence and I have read 3/4s of it. I also did a search in the thread on my box and cable company...nothing. So, I volunteer myself to be the SA8000HD/CharterCommunications pioneer and report results to this thread.

So...here goes.

I live in Pasadena, CA. The company is Charter Communications (http://charter.com/default.aspx) . I have been with them for 5 years. I have their top-class 3000k/sec internet access and digital cable TV with most of the premium channels. It's a good package and a good company, IMHO.

I have ordered their HDTV/DVR combo service and have an install appointment for Tuesday. They have informed me I will be receiving the following STB:

Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8000HD. (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/products/consumers/Exp8000HD.htm) This is the SA 8000HD user manual, warning it is an 800K pdf (http://jrdonohue.com/HD8000.pdf)

I called two different times to get the dope on this box. They have told me the DIV port is not enabled, that while I CAN 'record' digital and HD content onto the hard drive in the box (DVR) I cannot port it out from the DVR to a DVD recorder at full quality, but that there IS a way to record at standard quality to a VCR. [gee, thanks.].

I asked about firewire. I have been assured that the firewire ports (2 on board) are enabled and that the content WILL stream out the firewire ports "but Charter does not support any issues outside the box on this port." I did not open the can of worms about protection and flags and such. They promised to bring me a firewire cable! [never mind the cable...just don't set any no-record-for-you flags, etc., in the stream, i say]

My Mac is a G4 Dual 450MHz with 768MB RAM OSX 10.3.4 build 7H63 20 Gig HD (see my P.S)

During the installation, can I link by firewire and at least tell if the stream is active, while they are still there? I would appreciate any comments from the forum about "Things I should say and do before and during the installation!"

::::: Opera :::::

P.S. I need advice on purchase of hard drives.
Just go for size/cost best deal or do I need 7200 minimum, etc.
External? Can't I buy one or two fast internal?
Firewire from cable box must go into computer firewire port, right?

Got my 3250HD box today and set it up!

Got it connecting to VirtualDVHS and recording and everything.

My problem is in the playback. I have a dual 2.0 ghz G5 with 2 gigs of Ram and a new 23" HD cinema display.

When I record an HD channel VLC chokes. Sometimes it shows it for a second real garbled up, but then at least closes the file and sometimes crashes.

Now non-hd stations seem to record ok, however VLC fails in playing back the audio.

So.... HELP!

~bob

Originally posted by sprynmr
Got my 3250HD box today and set it up!
Problem is in the playback. I have a dual 2.0 ghz G5 with 2 gigs of Ram and a new 23" HD cinema display.

When I record an HD channel VLC chokes. Sometimes it shows it for a second real garbled up, but then at least closes the file and sometimes crashes.

Now non-hd stations seem to record ok, however VLC fails in playing back the audio.

Hi Bob.

VLC is a really good player, and handles just about any .ts you throw at it. And you DEFINITELY have enough power to play any HD transport stream. So...

The obvious question is: do they have 5C copy protection enabled on your box? If that's the case, VLC won't play it, since the file is encrypted. I don't know how to check the 5C setup using the box iteself. However, you can use VirtualDVHS. Fire it up, select the recording, and push play (you don't even need the firewire cable plugged in for this). If you see a bunch of error messages of the "Bad Sync" or "Bad Header" variety, your stream is probably encrypted. If VirtualDVHS goes on its merry way without complaining, you're cool.

If 5C is NOT enabled, your next bet is to download "ProjectX," which is a java program (gotta google to find it, sorry). With this, you can open up a transport stream file, then in the left of the interface, you can select "to TS" for output. Clicking run will give you a brand new Transport Stream file, and this one may work with VLC.

There's a few other programs out there, but I've never seen them fix something VLC couldn't play... ProjectX is your best bet in this arena.

-Pie

Originally posted by operaguy
My Mac is a G4 Dual 450MHz with 768MB RAM OSX 10.3.4 build 7H63 20 Gig HD (see my P.S)

During the installation, can I link by firewire and at least tell if the stream is active, while they are still there? I would appreciate any comments from the forum about "Things I should say and do before and during the installation!"

::::: Opera :::::

P.S. I need advice on purchase of hard drives.
Just go for size/cost best deal or do I need 7200 minimum, etc.
External? Can't I buy one or two fast internal?
Firewire from cable box must go into computer firewire port, right?

Well it's after Tuesday, so I'm too late to help with the first question. Though, I don't think there's a quick / easy way to test firewire output beside just firing up VirtualDVHS.

On your hard drive question...

I don't know how many internal drives your Mac can handle. I'd think two at least. In this case, I recommend you abandon the 20Gig and get a pair of 200GB HDs (depending on your pocketbook). You need to find out if your HDD interface is IDE, ATA or SATA before you buy (I believe ATA cannot go above 130GB... though SATA and IDE can).

The typical Mac place to buy a HDD is OWC <http://www.macsales.com>. But they are more expensive than other places like <http://www.newegg.com>... though OWC can tell you what drives your Mac can take.

You're looking at anywhere from about $100 to $150 for an internal 200GB drive... and basically all of them are 7200RPM. You do want the drive to have an 8MB buffer minimum. Oh, and the larger the drive, the faster it is (generally speaking).

If you go external, then OWC is your best bet. OTOH, you can build your own external by purchasing an enclosure and an internal drive... but you need to make sure the enclosure's drive interface matches the drive's (ATA, SATA, etc.). This will save you anywhere from $50 to $100 over a "pre-built" external, but it is a bit harder to do.

And finally... yes, you simply run a firewire cable between your Mac and the cable box to record.

-Pie

Thanks Pie,

This is the error that I get when I hit play is this:

MPEG2Transmitter Error: Invalid TS Packet Header!

What's that mean?

Originally posted by sprynmr
Thanks Pie,

This is the error that I get when I hit play is this:

MPEG2Transmitter Error: Invalid TS Packet Header!

What's that mean?

Have you tried iRecord? A link to it is within this thread. That message means that you have likely recorded a 5C encrypted stream. It won't playback on any computer. Of the digital channels, I can only record my local OTA channels via my Moto 6200 from Comcast.

With these encrypted streams can they simply be recorded and then later sent back through the cablebox to play on the TV? I have no interest in watching on my computer, but I would like to be able to record & store on the computer's hard disk until I'm ready to watch on the TV.

Originally posted by ASword
With these encrypted streams can they simply be recorded and then later sent back through the cablebox to play on the TV? I have no interest in watching on my computer, but I would like to be able to record & store on the computer's hard disk until I'm ready to watch on the TV.

So far, Firewire on cable boxes is unidirectional. Having a non-5C compliant device in the chain will hinder playback. Any computer is a non-5C compliant device.

<<If anyone wants any information on how to handle HDTV or setting up just ask. I think I have this set-up pretty much down and it does not give me too many problems. No system is perfect but this is pretty close.>>

I'll take you up on your kind offer. I am using a much simpler setup---basically an Apple G4 to record and the SIR T-165 as source. My question pertains to editing----I would like to do as you have and edit out the commercials. I am very much a NON-techie so what is the simplest way of doing this? I don't believe there's any software that allows you to edit the transport stream that is recorded. Is there a way to convert to MPEG2 without having to demux and reassemble?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Originally posted by sprynmr
Thanks Pie,

This is the error that I get when I hit play is this:

MPEG2Transmitter Error: Invalid TS Packet Header!

What's that mean?
If you get a bunch of 'em in a row, it's VERY LIKELY that 5C is enabled. Sorry. :(
(Ooops, jsb_hburg answered already... thanks jsb_hburg.)



With these encrypted streams can they simply be recorded and then later sent back through the cablebox to play on the TV? I have no interest in watching on my computer, but I would like to be able to record & store on the computer's hard disk until I'm ready to watch on the TV.

As stated, cable boxes are unidirectional. But there's another problem.

The 5C key is passed to the target device by the source after a very complex handshaking. Until someone makes a 5C DVR program for the Mac, you have two problems: (a) the decryption key isn't even on your drive because you never got it, and (b) you can't handshake with the target device because you can't "speak 5C" -- which is the same reason you never got the key!

So it's SOL all around with encrypted streams. At least for another year or two (until DVD Jon becomes HDTV Jon! :) ).

-Pie

Originally posted by JordanB
Is there a way to convert to MPEG2 without having to demux and reassemble?

Jordan.

There are two programs that can transcode. The first is VLC. You can select "Open File" and then go to "Advanced Output." There, in the lower half of the dialog, you have the ability to select transcode options for audio/video. I have never transcoded to an MPEG2, so I don't know what will happen or how well it works.

ProjectX is your other choice. Again, I've never transcoded to mpeg2 (called "Program Streams" or "ps" in projectX AFAIK), so I'm not sure of the results. But worth a try!

Let us know how it goes, and if you are ultimately able to edit the resulting MPEG2 and go back to a transport stream!

-Pie

Originally posted by Carlos_Salcedo


Performance:

Recording is almost flawless. The only faults would be due to the SA3250HD sometimes freezes and refuses to transmit a valid stream (only happens if box is not reset every 24 hours). The T-165 works 100% when using the Mac to start the recording. If I use the timer on the T-165 then there is a 20% failure rate and this is due to my refusing to upgrade the firmware due to the nightmares reported about upgrading the firmware.


I'll also take you up on your offer. I have a T-165 (125 firmware, if I remember correctly) connected to a G4/400 powerbook (10.3.5). Recording works for me, but I cannot record twice without closing th recording program (VirtualDVHS or iRecord) in between the two recordings. The first recording works just great but the second recording crashes the application and I have to shutdown the powerbook by holding the power button. This is the case whether I use record manually with VirtualDVHS, schedule a recording with iRecord or schedule a recording on the T-165 with VirtualDVHS running on the powerbook.

If I close VirtualDVHS or iRecord and reopen then the second recording works just fine. It it isn't a problem except when I want to schedule two programs to record and won't be around between the two. Has anybody else had this problem? Is there a solution?

In case it matters, my firewire chain is as follows: T-165>Lacie 160Gb external drive>powerbook. I should also probably note that I do all of my playback with VirtualDVHS through the T-165, which works great for me (although it does seem to erase a channel from my favorite channels list every time I do it, weird).

Thanks in advance, Alex

I've been working with transcoding transport streams today, trying to figure out how to archive nearly 200Gb of shows that I've recorded with my EyeTV 500 to DVD. The most promising of the apps I've tried is MPEG StreamClip which does get the job done as far as muxing and demuxing. However, the streams it outputs that are supposed to work with DVD Studio Pro don't and going to Quicktime, it crashed about half way through a 42 minute clip.

My exports from EyeTV have also been less than stellar when trying to go to MPEG. Going to 16x9 DV seems to work, but it's not quick. I'm exporting a 720p clip now to DVCPro 720p and it seems to be pretty fast. It took about 46 minutes or so to transcode a 43 minute clip without audio. I've already extracted the AC3 track using MPEG StreamClip so I'll use that on the DVD. However, some of my previous exports were truncated, i.e. a 90 minute clip ended up only being 38 minutes. :-)

In a perfect world, I'd be able to drop a transport stream on a droplet and it would basically export the AC3 audio as is and scale the video from either 720p or 1080i to anamorphic MPEG-2 for DVD, aka 720x480 with the anamorphic flag set. Right now, I'm exporting the AC3 audio track, then exporting the video to DVCPro-720p, then taking those files into DVD Studio Pro, which then re-encodes everything for DVD. That doesn't count building a simple menu structure for the video clips.

Dennis

P/S I should add that I'm trying this on my new G5/2.5Ghz, which is fast, but obviously not fast enough. Still, trying this stuff was painfully slow on my old G4/450DP. :)

P/S I should add that I'm trying this on my new G5/2.5Ghz, which is fast, but obviously not fast enough. Still, trying this stuff was painfully slow on my old G4/450DP.
How much better? Can I expect fluid playback at full screen? Do you still get audio glitches with more than one player running?

As for the transcoding, I agree it is not up to par yet. So far I'm keeping different eyeTV archive folders on different FW drives. It requires a quit and restart of the app for it to recognize the other archive and it's programming. Still nowhere near what I want because until I get the Dual 2.5+GHz my HTPC would be the ideal playback device. However, the near perfect recording of OTA and editing options of the eyeTV are leagues ahead and keeping me from recording my "wants" on MyHD ever again along with the HiPix are bound to have a drop or more one of every 2-3 shows.

cross post from the "Firewire active & recording from Comcast Moto 620x" thread"

The 1394 port on the STB's are bi-di, and you CAN control the STB through it. This is an implimentation in linux for changing the channels through 1394 port.

http://pvrguide.no-ip.com/bbs-old/viewtopic/6280.html

Now lets see what else we can do with the STB's :)

How much better? Can I expect fluid playback at full screen? Do you still get audio glitches with more than one player running?

On my 20-inch Apple Cinema Display (or on my 17-inch Samsung 172T) running on the stock Radeon 9600XL, playback is perfect and I don't seem to have any audio glitches, even when the application is in the background and I'm doing something else. On my 50-inch Sony LCD rear projector being driven by a Radeon 7000 PCI card, playback is a little choppy, though much better than using the same video card on my old G4/450DP.

The problem is that when I go into fullscreen on the Radeon 7000-driven display, the picture slows to a crawl and the audio is very, very choppy. I'm using the digital audio out and only see this with EyeTV on that monitor; I bought the Star Wars boxed set and the audio is simply awesome using the digital audio out so it's definitely an EyeTV problem of some sort. I've sent them a support e-mail about the problem, but haven't heard back.

I'm running out of hard drive space. :) Right now, I have about 300Gb archived and no easy way to save it for historical reasons. When I get caught up on some of my paying projects, I'll explore all of this again, but I'm hoping a new release of the EyeTV software will help.

My 2.5Ghz dual G5 has 2.5Gb of RAM and I'm using a pair of 250Gb Maxtor MaxLine II hard drives striped as the boot volume. I also have an external 500Gb Firewire 800 drive where I'm saving some of the material. All the recordings are saved to the internal drives.

Dennis

i have a 57h93 toshiba hdtv w/built it tuner. it sees the mac but i can't get the mac to see the tv.
under the play side it shows 1 connection but 0 on the record side.
is there a settin i'm missing?
thank you

On my 50-inch Sony LCD rear projector being driven by a Radeon 7000 PCI card, playback is a little choppy, though much better than using the same video card on my old G4/450DP.

9200 PCIs are now available. :D However, why the 7000? Don't you have a dual output on the Radeon 9600. I'm running DVI 1280x720 (projected 96in wide) and ADC 1280x1024 (LCD) off my Radeon 9000 Pro.

Good choice on the 9600, you'll possibly have some $$$ left over for the "x" series. I'm hoping the "x"s are officially out when I get the Dual G5. ;)

I'm running out of hard drive space. Right now, I have about 300Gb archived and no easy way to save it for historical reasons. When I get caught up on some of my paying projects, I'll explore all of this again, but I'm hoping a new release of the EyeTV software will help.

I bought a dual tower hot swap granite digital. Works great, but at $20+ a hot swap tray it's a little expensive and can only be reused at FW800 mod presently. Currently at 17 full HDs with about 4 that are mere dupes of another. Most 200GB or 250GB. There will never be enough until cheap Blu-ray disks arrive along with multi-TB sized drives. At which point, HDTV will not quite be good enough compared to 2160p. ;)

However, why the 7000? Don't you have a dual output on the Radeon 9600.

I have three monitors: the 20-inch ACD, a 17-inch Samsung and a 50-inch Sony KL-W9000 widescreen LCD rear projector. The Sony running off the Radeon 7000 can't display all the resolution of HD, but it's good enough for another year or two until I upgrade displays. Anyway, I might try swapping around the displays, though the last time I tried using a DVI->VGA adapter with the 7000 I lost the widescreen resolutions because the DDC info doesn't get passed through to the video card from the Sony when you use an adapter. Maybe the 9600 is different.

I'm planning to build a 4-drive SATA array once the new Firmtek cards with external ports ship. I'll evaluate drives when I get around to buying the other pieces, but I'm pretty happy with performance now. The main things I'd like to archive are a couple of football games and the opening/closing ceremonies of the 2004 Greece Olympics. Combined, that's about 60 gigs or so of stuff and even that isn't all that important.

I will also eventually buy a new video card for working with Motion. I just swapped out my Radeon 9000 that was in my G4/450DP for an Nvidia card since a client need its DVI port and I don't need anything special on my G4 which is becoming a server.

Dennis

Originally posted by NizZ8
cross post from the "Firewire active & recording from Comcast Moto 620x" thread"

The 1394 port on the STB's are bi-di, and you CAN control the STB through it. This is an implimentation in linux for changing the channels through 1394 port.

http://pvrguide.no-ip.com/bbs-old/viewtopic/6280.html

Now lets see what else we can do with the STB's :)

There is already an implementation for changing channels, as well as most other navigation and soudn related actions on the Mac as well. I believe what everyone wants is to feed the video stream back in.

I have all the equipment needed to record hdtv on my Mac except my Sharp LC-37HV6U LCD TV doesn't have a firewire input. It does however have a DVI, is it possible to use that with some sort of DVI to firewire converter since they are both all digital?
Thanks
Conmac

is it possible to use that with some sort of DVI to firewire converter since they are both all digital?

No there is no such converter, but you can connect your Mac to the TV via DVI.

Will an iMac G5 1.8 GHz play back HDTV 1080i videos perfectly with VLC? Apparently it's possible to connect a second monitor on the iMac G5 (by using the monitor spanning patch you can even use both the internal and external display) and I guess even 1920x1080 60Hz should be possible as resolution of the external screen.

But has the iMac G5 enough speed to play back 1080i without glitches? How was it with the single 1.6 or 1.8 GHz PowerMac G5?

A few people on this thread have asked for the VLC module I was working on and the source. I posted both on my macpvr website for anyone still interested. It is working for live standard def, and is almost there for high-def, but I won't have the time in near future to keep working on it, so perhaps someone else can pick it up. It's not too complicated, but I have no experience with VLC modules, and relatively little with the FW SDK, and didn't get enough of it down before now to get a fully functional module.

http://home.comcast.net/~macpvr/

Greetings and thanks for reading this! I'm a novice videophile with a newly delivered power mac G5 and firewire enabled digital cable box.


I suspect the AVC browser is not directing me to the right place. That said, I am able to open the device controller, connect to the output plug, and receive the following report re: the cable box unit info.

=============== Sent AVC Command ===============
cType: Status
subUnit: 0xFF
opCode: Unit Info (0x30)
FCP Command Frame:
01 FF 30 FF FF FF FF FF

=============== Received AVC Response ===============
response: Implemented/Stable
subUnit: 0xFF
opCode: Unit Info (0x30)
FCP Response Frame:
0C FF 30 07 28 12 34 56

When recording in Virtual DVHS, the transport stream library keeps filling up with empty files, with no bit rate transmission to signal that the recorder is looking in the right place. I've tried channels 0, 1 and 63 to no avail.

I should mention that the cable box is also connected via component video outputs (perhaps this is bypassing the firewire? But, if so, then how could the avc pickup the live box???)

SO, I call time warner cable. They basically told me to jump in a lake - firewire box is yours for a $35 truck fee, but sorry pal, we cant tell you how it works. Didnt we tell you firewire is unsupported?

Now, it gets better --- The firewire drivers I downloaded for DVHS seem to have corrupted my ability to use imovie with my canon dv camcorder. The firewire worked fine previously.


Anyway - here is my desperate request. 1 - is there an obvious fix/diagnostic that i am missing? 2- if i decide to cut my losses, how do i restore the firewire drivers to where they were 5 days ago when the g5 crossed my doorstep?

Thx to the kind soul who takes this one on.

Sincerely,

Jgracin@Nyc.rr.com

Originally posted by jgracin
Greetings and thanks for reading this! I'm a novice videophile with a newly delivered power mac G5 and firewire enabled digital cable box.

Now, it gets better --- The firewire drivers I downloaded for DVHS seem to have corrupted my ability to use imovie with my canon dv camcorder. The firewire worked fine previously.

Jgracin@Nyc.rr.com

Well, can't really help you with your cable box, but, I have somewhat of an idea with the iMovie stuff. It seems that VirtualDVHS/DVSHCap tend to monopolize things over the firewire bus, so, you can try and reboot/log-in-out and start up iMovie first, then, play with the DVHS stuff. I had this problem when doing captures with my DVHS deck, and using the firewire eyetv 500 HD tuner box. I think it also happened with iMovie. So as long as the DVHS/AV/C stuff is not running (or start up iMovie first), you should be able to capture to iMovie ok. If, not, not sure what do to. I've had no problems capturing to iMovie after having used the various Firewire apps. (Just not at the same time lately.)

that worked -- thx!

I just captured via firewire for the first time. It took some playing around in AVCBrowser. I was able to playback fine in VLC. I was not resizing the image at all so the video was larger than the screen. I have not looked into how the memory management works in VLC so maybe a full-length file would have had more problems.

Details:
Comcast (San Francisco, CA)
Motorola DCT6200 with firmware 7.15
Firewire channel 1
12" PowerBook (1.33 GHz PowerPC G4 upgraded to 768MB RAM)

I was not able to get it to play in InterVideo WinDVD but The Windows version of VLC had no problem on my PC and it looks great! It looks like it was 1280x720 but the properties don't seem to work on VLC for Windows so I'm not sure how to check.

A big thanks to everybody.