How-To: MacOS X Firewire HDTV recording

[rcliff]

How-To: Guide to MacOS X firewire HDTV recording

This topic is intended as a starting point for anyone that wants to record HDTV on the Mac. There are some other somewhat fragmented threads that discuss this but I thought others would benefit from a consolidated "HOW-TO" especially considering the timing of the new FCC mandate requiring cable providers to offer firewire to customers effective 4/1/03. This document is by no means complete and I'll update it as needed. Any comments or corrections are appreciated. Referenced links are provided at the end of this post.

Introduction

MacOS X is currently the only viable solution for recording HDTV via firewire using an emulated D-VHS deck. With a properly setup system you can record and playback cable and OTA HDTV with no loss in picture quality or sound. As for as alternatives, there is a beta product called Firebus for Win XP but it is extremely buggy and the development status is unclear. The beta is also incidentally closed if your interested. Some have also reported some success recording with Linux but it is far from plug and play. For the moment the Mac is the best choice for the task. Below you'll find the requirements and and some instructions for getting started recording HDTV with a Mac.

What do you need
An Apple PowerMac. There is a misconception that you need a fast new Mac for this. In fact, any Mac with internal firewire should be fine. I'm using a 6 year old beige G3 266MHz that can be bought used for about $100. As a guideline, any G3 or better should work and you might even get away with something older in the 7300-9600 model range. (Note: The Blue and White G3 appears to have a problem with this setup)

MacOS X 10.3 Panther operating system (or 10.2 Jaguar with updated firewire components)

Built-in firewire on the Mac or a firewire PCI card

Adequate hard drive space for recording. HDTV requires up to 9GB/hr for 19.3Mbit/sec broadcasts but the compression that most providers now use yield storage requirements somewhat less. The easiest way to get the most storage is to use external firewire hard drives preferably in an enclosure where you can easily swap hard drives as needed. Therefore your storage is limited only by your supply of HDD's. I'd guess that you'll get 30-40 hours on a 250GB drive.

A firewire source for recording. This can be a firewire cable STB, a D-VHS deck, on OTA firewire STB, or a firewire equipped HDTV. See some examples of supported devices are below.

A firewire output device for playback. This can be a firewire HDTV or D-VHS deck.

Firewire cables. There are 4pin and 6pin variants and the ports vary with your equipment. The Mac end is always 6pin. You can buy cables up to 15' or use firewire repeaters if you need longer. Firewire devices can be daisy chained together so you can also use an external firewire hard drive as a bridge.

(Optional) A Windows HTPC for playback with WinDVD if you don't have a firewire output device or want to play on your PC. You'll have to rename the files with .trp extension for this to work.

(Optional) VLC video player or mplayer for playback on your Mac monitor. A PowerMac G5 is needed for decent playback.

How to set up and use the system
Install MacOS 10.3 Panther on your Mac. You can also use MacOS 10.2 Jaguar if you install Apple's Firewire SDK 18 which is freely downloadable from Apple's Web site. See links below for URL. I would recommend using Panther regardless as it is much more stable and significantly faster.

NOTE: If you are using a G3 without built-in USB or older, these machines do not officially support Panther. You can likely use XPostFacto to install it anyway on many machines. I have successfully installed Panther on a beige G3 without USB. YMMV and this is often not a simple task. See links below for more info.

Turn off all sleep settings in the energy saver control panel. This will cause recording problems especially in older Macs. You should also turn off screen savers. The default "flurry" uses heavy CPU cycles and will definitely be problematic.

You next need the Virtual D-VHS application which is included with Apple's Firewire SDK 18. You can safely install the SDK if you are running MacOS X Jaguar 10.2.x or Panther 10.3.x. If you are running Jaguar you must also install the firewire prerelease components which are included as separate installer packages after you install the SDK. The prerelease components installers are located at VolumeName:developer:FirewireSDK18:PreReleaseComponents:Pack ages. If you are running Panther, do NOT install the prerelease components which will overwrite some firewire components with older versions. You can also download a modified version of Virtual D-VHS that has some additional functionality from the URL below. After installation you'll find Virtual D-VHS is stored at VolumeName:developer:FirewireSDK18:PreReleaseComponents:Exam ples. The AVC Browser application is located at VolumeName:developer:Applications:Firewire.

Set up a folder on your "really big" hard drive to store your recording. Remember HDTV recordings can use up to 9GB/hour.

Drag this folder to the Virtual D-VHS icon to launch the application. This sets the recording directory. If you skip this step, recording will NOT work and you won't get an error indicating why.

If your firewire equipped device has AV/C protocol implemented your Mac should now show up as a new device "DVHS". This is how Mitsubishi TV's work. You should now be able to schedule a recording using your remote. I've done this using the TV's internal scheduler to record from both the TV's internal tuner and firewire cable STB. In general, it's probably best if your firewire equipped HDTV or D-VHS deck controls all recording and timer functionality and the Mac simply acts as a DVHS deck.

NOTE: If you only have a cable box without the AV/C protocol implemented you should still be able to record manually. You first need to open AVCBrowser and connect to your STB using the connect button in the output section. Note the channel. Launch Virtual D-VHS and select the channel listed in AVCBrowser. Hit the record button and the bitrate should change to the programs current value and recording starts. See the second post in this thread for much more information regarding manual recording as well as using Applescripts and iCal for scheduling.

Playback to an HDTV is quite simple. Select your Mac as the selected device with your TV. Then in Virtual D-VHS just choose the recording you want to watch from the recordings list and hit play.

A word of caution

Please note that the VirtualDVHS demo is really a proof of concept rather than a fully functional application and has some rough edges. With that said many people here have had very good results and there are currently very few alternatives for firewire recording. The Virtual D-VHS source code is also available with the SDK so some enterprising developer may be able to wrap a polished GUI around this and ship a commercial product. I for one really hope Apple or some third party is working on developing this further.

Links and reference

Apple Developer Firewire Homepage (http://developer.apple.com/devicedrivers/firewire/index.html)
Apple Firewire SDK 18 Download (ftp://ftp.apple.com/developer/Development_Kits/XFireWireSDK18b.dmg.bin)
Apple Firewire SDK 19 Download (ftp://ftp.apple.com/developer/Development_Kits/XFireWireSDK19e.dmg.bin)
Apple Firewire SDK 20 Download (ftp://ftp.apple.com/developer/Development_Kits/XFireWireSDK20c.dmg)
XPostFacto software for installing Panther on older Macs (http://eshop.macsales.com/OSXCenter/XPostFacto/Framework.cfm?page=XPostFacto3.html)
Customized Version of Virtual D-VHS (http://seth.mattinen.org/notes/hdrec.php)
VirtualDVHS Timeshifting with some cable boxes (includes link to Applescripts) (http://mac_hdtv_timer.home.comcast.net/)
iRecord (http://www.ammesset.com/software/irecord/)
Modified AV/C Browser with Recording and Channel Tuning Functionality (macpvr.home.comcast.net/avcbrowser.html)
AVS thread: Apple FireWire news: soon, more AV/C support! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=269141)
Mitsubishi Firewire Networking Example (http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/innovations/networking/default.asp)
Videolan Player for MacOS X (http://videolan.org/vlc/download-macosx.html)
MPlayer OS X (http://mplayerosx.sourceforge.net/)
Roku HD1000 Phtobridge media player (http://www.rokulabs.com/products/photobridge/index.php)
I-O DATA's LinkPlayer2 media player (http://www.iodata.com/products/products.php?cat=HNP&sc=AVEL&ts=2&tsc=&sc=AVEL&pId=AVLP2%2FDVDLA)
A VNC server for OS X (http://www.redstonesoftware.com/vnc.html)
A VNC client for OS X (http://sourceforge.net/projects/cotvnc/)
Firewire equipped HDTV's, STB's and D-VHS decks from the 1394 Trade Association (http://www.1394ta.org/About/products/consumer_products.html#Televisions)

Supported Devices

The following devices should work as noted. Much of this information comes from the readme included with Virtual D-VHS. Please post any additions or corrections.
Mitsubishi TVs with HDTV integrated tuner and FireWire. These TVs have an integrated AV/C tape controller that will recognize the Mac as a DVHS device and allow the TV to control the Mac.

Sony Cablevision DHG-M55CV Firewire enabled cable set-top box.

Comcast Motorola 620x Firewire enabled cable set-top box.

Scientific Atlanta SA3250HD and SA4200HD Firewire enabled cable set-top boxes.

Samsung SIR-T165 ATSC Tuner set-top box. This device has an integrated AV/C tape controller that will recognize the Mac as a DVHS device and allow the set-top box to control the Mac.

Sony 2002 XBR-34 HDTV - No TV-hosted controllers, but the application's player can stream to the TV over FireWire.

Mitsubishi HD-2000U DVHS VCR - Stream to/from the device using the application's UI to control both the player/recorder and the external D-VHS deck.

JVC HM-DH30000U and HM-DH40000U DVHS VCRs - Stream to/from the device using the application's UI to control both the player/recorder and the external D-VHS deck

JVC GR-HD1 720p Camcorder - With the camera in MPEG2 mode, stream to/from the device using the application's UI to control both the player/recorder and the camera.

Sony MicroMV Camcorders - Stream to/from the device using the application's UI to control both the player/recorder and the camera.

MIT MDR-200 ATSC Tuner set-top box.

Unsupported. Panasonic TU-DST50 ATSC Tuner set-top box. This device does not appear to work with Virtual D-VHS.

[jsb_hburg]

This is a good thread in view of timing and the functionality that the Mac offers. Below are some PDFs from a link referenced above.


How to set up VirtualDVHS on your Mac and its use with iCal (http://mac_hdtv_timer.home.comcast.net/Moto6200Virtual.pdf)

How to initiate connection between your Mac and set-top-box with Firewire (http://mac_hdtv_timer.home.comcast.net/Manual_6200.pdf)

How to playback VirtualDVHS recordings (http://mac_hdtv_timer.home.comcast.net/VDVHSPlayback.pdf)

Advanced: Recording two programs at one time using two Firewire-equipped set-top-boxes (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3613422#post3613422)



Cliff,

The Panasonic TU-DST50 is known not to work with VirtualDVHS despite using AVC Browser to establish connection. The MIT MDR-200 will work with VirtualDVHS. I will get a PDF together on the two recordings at one time functionality, as well.

[rcliff]

Joe, thanks for the additions. I think this will be of interest to a lot of people now that firewire is becoming a reality via cable. I don't think many people would have found out about this in the long "Apple FireWire news: soon, more AV/C support" thread.

I'll revise the supported device section tomorrow.

[jsb_hburg]

The Firewire SDK 18 can be installed since the programs: VirtualDVHS, AVC Browser and DVHSCap may all be needed. For those running Panther, do not install PreReleaseFireWire.pkg and PreReleaseFireWireDebug.pkg from the Packages subfolder of the PreReleaseComponents folder. These installation packages are to be installed by Jaguar users. These PreRelease packages are not installed when the Firewire SDK 18 is installed. They are loaded as uninstalled packages for optional installation.

I cannot over-emphasize upgrading to Panther 10.3 to run VirtualDVHS and the other software from the SDK.

[EatingPie]

Great great thread!

Perfect timing for me, as I came here today explicitly for instructions for running my Powerbook to my Mitsubishi. I wanted a test run before my Firewire-equipped cable box arrives on Sunday. Followed the instructions and worked like a charm!

I'll give the SDK a shot too. The .bom says it installs one System component called "TranslacentDriver" in the /System/Library/Extensions folder. Any comments on this component? Necessary with Panther? (I'll probably toast it after install.)

Much thanks and kudos!

-Pie

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by rcliff

If your firewire equipped device has an AVC browser your Mac should now show up as a new device "DVHS". This is how Mitsubishi TV's work. You should now be able to schedule a recording using your remote. I've done this using the TV's internal scheduler to record from both the TV's internal tuner and firewire cable STB. In general, it's probably best if your firewire equipped HDTV or D-VHS deck controls all recording and timer functionality and the Mac simply acts as a DVHS deck. There is also a link below that discusses using Applescript and iCal for scheduling.

NOTE: If you only have a cable box without an AVC browser you should still be able to record manually. You'll need to first find the correct firewire channel that your STB is outputting to. This is selectable in Virtual D-VHS and it can be one of 64 channels between 0 and 63. Trial and error will tell you which one. Just select a channel and hit the record button in Virtual D-VHS. If the bitrate shows 0 you know it's the wrong channel. It's most likely channel 0,1 or 63 so try those first.



Where you have "an AVC browser," this term should be replaced with "AV/C protocol implemented." The Motorola 6200, for example, lacks AV/C protocol implementation; so, Apple's AVC Browser from the SDK is required to initiate connection. Using the right Firewire channel in VirtualDVHS without using Apple's AVC Browser to initiate connection will yield an empty file when recording off a set-top-box that lacks AV/C protocol implementation.

On the other hand, set-top-boxes with AV/C protocol implemented should not require the use of Apple's AVC Browser, meaning that VirtualDVHS should be all that is needed on the Mac. The remote control combined with the set-top-box menus should drive the recording and playback.

The iCal scripts were developed because the Motorola 6200 lacks menus driving recording and timer functionality for timeshifting. The scripts are also useful for over-the-air boxes in cities where the stations' time information sent in the PSIP is erratic or missing which would cause a missed recording despite having properly set up a recording event on the over-the-air ("OTA") set-top-box ("STB").

I updated the zip file and the main instruction pdf file at http://mac_hdtv_timer.home.comcast.net

[rcliff]

A few changes above. Thanks Joe for the suggestions and for posting the PDF's.

[EatingPie]

What format does Virtual D-VHS store? What are the equivalent file extensions (like on the PC side)?

The reason I ask... I would like to transcode some files to that format so I can play them with Virtual DVHS directly over the Firewire to my Mitsubishi. Like maybe transcode a VOB so I can have a direct-digital DVD player... :)

I realize this is a bit off topic, and would gladly accept pointers to more relevant threads.

-Pie

[rcliff]

Assuming you have a Mac dedicated to recording there are a few things you can do to make it more of an AV appliance. You can remove the keyboard, monitor and mouse and move the Mac to the location of rest of your AV equipment if you setup your Mac with screen sharing software. If so your Mac will only need power, ethernet and and firewire connections. I just installing mine in a standard 19" rack with my other equipment and am using VNC for remote control. It is accessible locally with any VNC client or remotely over the internet assuming the correct security and firewall settings. Timbuktu would also work for remote control as well but VNC is free.

A VNC server for OS X (http://www.redstonesoftware.com/vnc.html)
A VNC client for OS X (http://sourceforge.net/projects/cotvnc/)
There are also free VNC clients for Windows and Linux that can also control the recording Mac

[rcliff]

Originally posted by EatingPie
What format does Virtual D-VHS store? What are the equivalent file extensions (like on the PC side)?

The reason I ask... I would like to transcode some files to that format so I can play them with Virtual DVHS directly over the Firewire to my Mitsubishi. Like maybe transcode a VOB so I can have a direct-digital DVD player... :)

I realize this is a bit off topic, and would gladly accept pointers to more relevant threads.

-Pie
Pie, glad you found the HOW-TO useful :)

Virtual D-VHS uses MPEG2 transport streams. You should be able to use the advanced output options from VLC 0.7 or later to create a compatible file from any other source that VLC will recognize. It takes quite a bit of time for encoding (depending on the speed of your Mac) and some trial and error.

[warr]

Does anyone know how to make the VirtualDVHS "Stop" script also quit the progam so that I can have ical re-launch it? Refresh always freezes the program. To put it another way; I would like to have ical "launch and record" then "Stop and Quit the Application" then "launch and record" on the next showing, then so on, and so on........


Thanks

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by warr
Does anyone know how to make the VirtualDVHS "Stop" script also quit the progam so that I can have ical re-launch it? Refresh always freezes the program. To put it another way; I would like to have ical "launch and record" then "Stop and Quit the Application" then "launch and record" on the next showing, then so on, and so on........


Thanks

You get a freeze from "Refresh and Record?" On your system, do you know that you need to use "Refresh and Record" script? How about just the "Record" script? Make sure that you do not exit or close any of the AVC Browser windows or the recording will fail.

What Firewire tuner are you using to record?

[warr]

Sorry if I was not clear. I can record just fine. The scripts work great! Problem is when a recording is finished and stopped, I need to shut down both of the programs or else VirtualDVHD will freeze. This is whether or not I use "Refresh and record" or if I do it manually or any other means that I have tried. It may be a powerbook G3 500 issue, don't know. But if I shut VirtualDVHS and AVC down then restart using the launch and "record script", all is fine.

thanks

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by warr
Sorry if I was not clear. I can record just fine. The scripts work great! Problem is when a recording is finished and stopped, I need to shut down both of the programs or else VirtualDVHD will freeze. This is whether or not I use "Refresh and record" or if I do it manually or any other means that I have tried. It may be a powerbook G3 500 issue, don't know. But if I shut VirtualDVHS and AVC down then restart using the launch and "record script", all is fine.

thanks

Okay, I understand. A Quit script is now available in the zip file at this website (http://mac_hdtv_timer.home.comcast.net) .

[warr]

YOU ARE AWSOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THANKS!!!!!

mark

[warr]

Did some testing and the "Quit" script works like a charm! At this time I am using the "Quit" script in ical instead of the "stop" script. So far so good.

The big test will be tonight through tomorrow afternoon; Silence of the Lambs, Harry Potter, What a Girl Wants (for my daughter), Star Wars, Old School.

Thanks

[warr]

Sorry, Awesome - in my excitement I failed to proof read!

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by warr
Did some testing and the "Quit" script works like a charm! At this time I am using the "Quit" script in ical instead of the "stop" script. So far so good.

The big test will be tonight through tomorrow afternoon; Silence of the Lambs, Harry Potter, What a Girl Wants (for my daughter), Star Wars, Old School.

Thanks

Be sure to do a test capture of any 5 minute clip to make sure Quit works in place of Stop relative to the file that is created - I don't think that the file would be corrupted because Quit was used to stop recording based on my system; then again, my system does not freeze when trying to do a successive capture. I am certain that 3 iCal events would work: L & R, Stop then Quit.

[warr]

Well, on short segments the quit seemed to work fine in place of the stop. So far on long recordings (2 hour) I can't seem to get quit to work. I just cut and paste the quit script into the stop script (stopquit.scpt) and will try this on long recordings. stopquit works fine on short recordings.

mark

[warr]

In case your wondering? My PB G3500 has been reformatted, reinstalled 10.3.3 along with all other updates, NO other programs installed (except those on 10.3.3), and at this time dedicated to VDVHS only. You DO need an external Firewire HD otherwise it will freeze. All the above "How To's" are being followed.

Thank you Joe and Cliff for all the support!

I should look into making some ical share calendars with hbo, sho, etc.. I tried using the ESPNHD calender that is on icalshare.com. Works great! If there is a program you want to record just fire up the script.

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by warr
Well, on short segments the quit seemed to work fine in place of the stop. So far on long recordings (2 hour) I can't seem to get quit to work. I just cut and paste the quit script into the stop script (stopquit.scpt) and will try this on long recordings. stopquit works fine on short recordings.

mark

Mark,

The two line Quit script works for short recordings but not for long recordings? I seem to understand that you have modified the Stop script by appending the two line Quit script at the end. This makes a Stop and Quit script which may be useful beyond G3/500 notebook users. The order of operation makes sense.

Below is how I have appended the Stop script with quit functionality to make Stop and Quit...

delay 5

tell application "AVCBrowser" to quit

tell application "VirtualDVHS" to quit

I updated the zip file at the website (http://mac_hdtv_timer.home.comcast.net) to include the Stop and Quit script.

[warr]

<The two line Quit script works for short recordings but not for long recordings?>

I know, seems not to make much sense to me. I just tried 2 long recordings last night. Its one looonnnngggg recording now. Could just be some weird glitch. But anyway, it seems that a stop then quit script would be a better route anyway.

I have some recordings starting in an hour and will update.

thanks

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by warr
<The two line Quit script works for short recordings but not for long recordings?>

I know, seems not to make much sense to me. I just tried 2 long recordings last night. Its one looonnnngggg recording now. Could just be some weird glitch. But anyway, it seems that a stop then quit script would be a better route anyway.

I have some recordings starting in an hour and will update.

thanks

Good luck. I edited my post above to include the three lines of code to append at the end of the Stop script to make a Stop and Quit script.

[rcliff]

Originally posted by warr
...What a Girl Wants (for my daughter)...
Yea, whatever :D

[rcliff]

Originally posted by warr
I should look into making some ical share calendars with hbo, sho, etc.. I tried using the ESPNHD calender that is on icalshare.com. Works great! If there is a program you want to record just fire up the script.
That's a great idea! A shared calendar for the dozen or so major HD channels could be great. I haven't done anything with iCal but definitely need to check it out.

[rcliff]

Does anyone have any thoughts on a mechanism for changing channels on the STB? ie if you wanted to record a program on HBO-HD and then SHO-HD a couple of hours later without manually changing the channel on the STB. It would be great if there was a way to initiate the channel change via firewire but this doesn't seem possible. The only solution I can think of is to use a universal remote with timer functionality but that seems far from ideal.

[warr]

Originally posted by rcliff
Does anyone have any thoughts on a mechanism for changing channels on the STB?

That would be great! At this time I am using the timers on the 6200 STB to change the channels.

Cliff - Amanda is cute, got to admit!

mark

p.s. anyone know if the LG 3410a would work well with this mac VDVHS stuff?

[rcliff]

Originally posted by warr
p.s. anyone know if the LG 3410a would work well with this mac VDVHS stuff?
It should since it specifically supports firewire archiving to D-VHS.

[warr]

The new script works great!

Thanks!

mark

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by warr
The new script works great!

Thanks!

mark

That's good news!

[jsb_hburg]

I have a couple of Maxtor 250GB USB 2.0/Firewire external drives, 7200 RPM/8 MB cache. I have taken some advice to use a fast external drive over the internal drive. I did two recordings of the same program from a cable channel that doesn't ordinarily glitch. Though not conclusive, I did not have any overruns via the external while I had 7 overruns via the internal.

[warr]

Using the PG G3500 with my LaCie 250G Firewire and about 40 recordings, I can say that I never had an overrun. On my internal, overrun was 100% within 2-5 mins. Usually 2 min.

mark

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by rcliff
How-To: Guide to MacOS X firewire HDTV recording

...
NOTE: If you only have a cable box without the AV/C protocol implemented you should still be able to record manually. You'll need to first find the correct firewire channel that your STB is outputting to. This is selectable in Virtual D-VHS and it can be one of 64 channels between 0 and 63. Trial and error will tell you which one. Just select a channel and hit the record button in Virtual D-VHS. If the bitrate shows 0 you know it's the wrong channel. It's most likely channel 0,1 or 63 so try those first.
...



Cliff,

Here is what I have learned from trial and error. Without Apple's AVC Browser, I would not be able to use VirtualDVHS to record....

The Motorola 6200, for example, lacks AV/C protocol implementation; so, Apple's AVC Browser from the SDK is required to initiate connection. Using the right Firewire channel in VirtualDVHS without using Apple's AVC Browser to initiate connection will yield an empty file when recording off a set-top-box that lacks AV/C protocol implementation.

On the other hand, set-top-boxes with AV/C protocol implemented should not require the use of Apple's AVC Browser, meaning that VirtualDVHS should be all that is needed on the Mac. The remote control combined with the set-top-box menus should drive the recording and playback.

[rcliff]

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
Cliff,

Here is what I have learned from trial and error. Without Apple's AVC Browser, I would not be able to use VirtualDVHS to record....

The Motorola 6200, for example, lacks AV/C protocol implementation; so, Apple's AVC Browser from the SDK is required to initiate connection. Using the right Firewire channel in VirtualDVHS without using Apple's AVC Browser to initiate connection will yield an empty file when recording off a set-top-box that lacks AV/C protocol implementation.

On the other hand, set-top-boxes with AV/C protocol implemented should not require the use of Apple's AVC Browser, meaning that VirtualDVHS should be all that is needed on the Mac. The remote control combined with the set-top-box menus should drive the recording and playback.
Hmm... I'll also do some testing with this. It would be great to have a clear list of capabilities of the various available devices. I should be getting a new Scientific Atlanta firewire box tomorrow and am very curious to see it's operation.

[JeremyJ]

Originally posted by rcliff
Does anyone have any thoughts on a mechanism for changing channels on the STB? ie if you wanted to record a program on HBO-HD and then SHO-HD a couple of hours later without manually changing the channel on the STB. It would be great if there was a way to initiate the channel change via firewire but this doesn't seem possible. The only solution I can think of is to use a universal remote with timer functionality but that seems far from ideal.

How about writing some AppleScripts to control the KeySpan USB remote?

http://www.keyspan.com/products/usb/remote/

Couldn't we just send IR commands to change the channel before firing the record AppleScripts?

I don't have this yet, but I was about to get one.

On a related note, my PowerBook has IR, maybe that could be used instead.

Jeremy

[EatingPie]

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
ere is what I have learned from trial and error. Without Apple's AVC Browser, I would not be able to use VirtualDVHS to record....

The Motorola 6200, for example, lacks AV/C protocol implementation; so, Apple's AVC Browser from the SDK is required to initiate connection. Using the right Firewire channel in VirtualDVHS without using Apple's AVC Browser to initiate connection will yield an empty file when recording off a set-top-box that lacks AV/C protocol implementation.

Can you expound on this... IE What do you do in the AVCBrowser to initiate recording? I've tried it and it only lists the firewire devices.

TimeWarner delivered a Scientific Atlanta 3250HD with firewire. My TV and AVCBrowser both recognize the device, however I get no data from the Firewire port. Tried tuning to multiple channels, HD and SD, but no go.

I ran the AVCBrowser, but as I said all I received was a device info. What else can this program do? Anyone know what the other firewire programs do in the developer kit? And instructions on how they work?

-Pie

[EatingPie]

Ah, "Open Device Controller" button... This opens an interface to control the selected AV/C device! Thought it opened a kernel device driver... d'oh!

Now, how about a list of AV/C commands and their Hex equivalents? And maybe an explanation of what the heck all this stuff is in the interface (or a reference document)!

TIA.

-Pie

[rcliff]

Originally posted by JeremyJ
How about writing some AppleScripts to control the KeySpan USB remote?

http://www.keyspan.com/products/usb/remote/

Couldn't we just send IR commands to change the channel before firing the record AppleScripts?

I don't have this yet, but I was about to get one.

On a related note, my PowerBook has IR, maybe that could be used instead.

Jeremy
This is a remote receiver to control funtions on your computer with an IR remote not an IR blaster to control AV components from your computer. Your need an IR blaster to send computer commands to the STB. I've done this with Girder on a Windows PC to control a Tivo remotely but don't think there's an all Mac solution.

[dozens]

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
I have a couple of Maxtor 250GB USB 2.0/Firewire external drives, 7200 RPM/8 MB cache. I have taken some advice to use a fast external drive over the internal drive. I did two recordings of the same program from a cable channel that doesn't ordinarily glitch. Though not conclusive, I did not have any overruns via the external while I had 7 overruns via the internal.

Wow, I wish I could try this. Unfortunetly I have an G3 iBook and it only has one firewire port and one usb 1.1 port. Is usb 1.1 too slow for an external drive ? Is there anyway I can add another firewire port or replace my internal harddrive with a faster one ?

[dozens]

BTW - I am using VLC for the Mac and a Roku HD1000 for playback. I stream the .m2t file from my Mac over the network using vlc and on the Roku I run an alpha version of MPegPSPlay to receive the file and play it back. Works great ecept when I run into recording glitches and audio gets out of sync with video.

[rcliff]

Originally posted by dozens
Wow, I wish I could try this. Unfortunetly I have an G3 iBook and it only has one firewire port and one usb 1.1 port. Is usb 1.1 too slow for an external drive ? Is there anyway I can add another firewire port or replace my internal harddrive with a faster one ?
One firewire port is all you need

[miimura]

Originally posted by rcliff
One firewire port is all you need Just to clarify, you would daisy chain your Set Top Box and all subsequent devices off the external drive which is connected to your one firewire port on the computer.

- Mike

[chap]

Man, you guys are making me wish I had a mac :-).

[dozens]

Originally posted by miimura
Just to clarify, you would daisy chain your Set Top Box and all subsequent devices off the external drive which is connected to your one firewire port on the computer.

- Mike

So I can connect a firewire drive to my ibook and then connect my STB (6200) to my firewire drive and be able to record to the external drive ? If so, cool ! I need to stop at BestBuy on the way home. Any recommendation on a good (ie fast) firewire drive ? Are upgradeable ones just as fast ?

[warr]

I love my 250GB Lacie Firewire. Looks good too! It takes firewire 400, 800 and USB. I'm thinking of my future G5 with 800 firewire.

Lacie also makes a 500GB!! My next one!

mark

[JeremyJ]

Originally posted by rcliff
This is a remote receiver to control funtions on your computer with an IR remote not an IR blaster to control AV components from your computer. Your need an IR blaster to send computer commands to the STB. I've done this with Girder on a Windows PC to control a Tivo remotely but don't think there's an all Mac solution.

Oops, you are right. All is not lost though, how about this Mac compatible solution:

Software:
http://www.filewell.com/iRed/

which works with this Hardware:
http://www.irtrans.de/english/index.htm

Jeremy

[rcliff]

Originally posted by dozens
So I can connect a firewire drive to my ibook and then connect my STB (6200) to my firewire drive and be able to record to the external drive ? If so, cool ! I need to stop at BestBuy on the way home. Any recommendation on a good (ie fast) firewire drive ? Are upgradeable ones just as fast ?
Yes, the great thing about firewire is that you can daisy chain devices in any order and everything should just work. You could also use a firewire hub to increase ports but I doubt you'll need it. Just make sure you have all the cables you need with the correct pinouts.

[rcliff]

Originally posted by JeremyJ
Oops, you are right. All is not lost though, how about this Mac compatible solution:

Software:
http://www.filewell.com/iRed/

which works with this Hardware:
http://www.irtrans.de/english/index.htm

Jeremy

Cool, I'll have to check that out. I have a tira usb blaster that I've used on the PC. I wonder if that will work. http://www.home-electro.com/tira2.htm

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by dozens
So I can connect a firewire drive to my ibook and then connect my STB (6200) to my firewire drive and be able to record to the external drive ? If so, cool ! I need to stop at BestBuy on the way home. Any recommendation on a good (ie fast) firewire drive ? Are upgradeable ones just as fast ?

Hello, you may need to put the 6200 at the end of your Firewire chain until the firmware is updated. I believe the LG 3410a has to be at the end as well, based on reading the manual, as another example.

[zmatzkin]

Originally posted by rcliff
This is a remote receiver to control funtions on your computer with an IR remote not an IR blaster to control AV components from your computer. Your need an IR blaster to send computer commands to the STB. I've done this with Girder on a Windows PC to control a Tivo remotely but don't think there's an all Mac solution.

Actually, there is...

Try this all mac solution: www . thezephir . com (this is my first post here and it won't let me post a url)

The OSX software is still in beta, though...and I can't give a review, as I don't have one. yet.

Zach

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by EatingPie
Ah, "Open Device Controller" button... This opens an interface to control the selected AV/C device! Thought it opened a kernel device driver... d'oh!

Now, how about a list of AV/C commands and their Hex equivalents? And maybe an explanation of what the heck all this stuff is in the interface (or a reference document)!

TIA.

-Pie


Pie:


Check these links:

Manual to use VirtualDVHS and AVC Browser with iCal (http://mac_hdtv_timer.home.comcast.net/Moto6200Virtual.pdf)

Manual on how to initiate connection with Firewire STB using AVC Browser (http://mac_hdtv_timer.home.comcast.net/Manual_6200.pdf)

Click on Connect button under Output Plug assuming there is at least one output plug as in this screenshot. (http://mac_hdtv_timer.home.comcast.net/connection.html)


In the first AVC Browser window, you will see a list of AVC devices connected to the Mac. You should see one for your Firewire tuner. You should see columns labelled: Name, Type, GUID, In Speed, Out Speed, # in, # out and Out Base.

What is the number that you see under the column titled # out? Please let us know.

[Fellini8.5]

This is interesting stuff, and I'm interested in hearing success stories with the SciAtl 3250HD.

Having been away from the Mac-iverse for since the PPC days, a couple of questions. I'd be looking to dedicate the mac as a server in my media center, with network playback through the MyHD card in my HTPC.

- Powerbook G3s, do they all have built-in firewire, or would some need a pcmcia card? My quick stroll through eBay makes me think the latter, but I'm not sure. How noisy are they?
- iBook G3 clamshell, good enough? Enough firewire-to-network bandwidth? How noisy are they?
- That 266 biege, are there any mods to make one a _quiet_ mac?
- What's the min RAM and HD size for stuffing Panther on one of the older boxes? And are there any howto's to get through the expected quirks of using unsupported hardware?

[rcliff]

Originally posted by Fellini8.5
This is interesting stuff, and I'm interested in hearing success stories with the SciAtl 3250HD.

Having been away from the Mac-iverse for since the PPC days, a couple of questions. I'd be looking to dedicate the mac as a server in my media center, with network playback through the MyHD card in my HTPC.

- Powerbook G3s, do they all have built-in firewire, or would some need a pcmcia card? My quick stroll through eBay makes me think the latter, but I'm not sure. How noisy are they?
- iBook G3 clamshell, good enough? Enough firewire-to-network bandwidth? How noisy are they?
- That 266 biege, are there any mods to make one a _quiet_ mac?
- What's the min RAM and HD size for stuffing Panther on one of the older boxes? And are there any howto's to get through the expected quirks of using unsupported hardware?
Powerbook G3's - Some had firewire some did not. As I recall the models with the bronze keyboard have firewire

Not sure about the clamshell ibook. I was never a fan but if it has firewire it most likely is adequate.

I would say 256MB Ram as a rule but you might get away with somewhat less. Panther will fit on a 2GB partition with minimal options and about 900MB free but 4GB is a better choice.

Check out the xpostfacto link in the first post in this thread for tips about unsupported hardware.

[mikemav]

Hi -

Great stuff in this thread. I am a Mac enthusiast, but I went over to the the dark side w/ the boys from Redmond, WA specifically for HDTV on my computer. Now that I read this, I'm back to Mac. Anyway, the MyHD card I use for HD on my PC would seem to be a viable playback solution, and if I can get Adelphia to upgrade me to HD (Moto 6200) I could finally record HBO stuff instead of just OTA. My question is about recording scripts. I think the interface w/ iCal is neat, but still not as slick as the Titan TV web page and the MyHD click to record function. For the Mac, I noticed a while back that there is a great feature in an awesome third party program called Watson. It is kind of like Sherlock on steriods, if you are unfamilair w/ it. Check it out at here (http://www.karelia.com/watson/) With this program, there is a TV Guide tool for Watson that shows listings updated in real time. You select your provider (now I have it set for DirecTV) and it shows listings. For DTV, it even shows the HDTV channels. See here (http://www.karelia.com/watson/plugins/tv.html) for an example. The cool thing is there are some function buttons on the side of the description of a program. One is to add the program as an iCal event. Cool enough, and may save a step with your process. Even cooler if we could modify it...there is a button for watch and a button for record with EyeTV. If that could be adapted to work with the Applescript for the VirtualDVHS, we have the most elegant solution there is for scheduling recordings (especially if it could also change the channel on the STB.) Do you think any or all of this is possible?

Here is the "about" info on the TV Guide Watson tool for more info:
TV Listings browses TV Guide's Web site to provide you a “grid” showing what's on TV, and performs searches for programs in the next two weeks. TV Guide covers the US (Broadcast, Cable, and satellite), Canada (cable), and a number of other countries’ cable systems around the world.

Initial Setup

Before you can view listings, you need to establish a free account with TVGuide.com, and choose your location and service provider from their Web site. Watson will use the e-mail address you provided to them to identify yourself for accessing the TV listings.

After setting up your account, enter the same e-mail address that you provided TVGuide.com in the settings drawer, and click the Set button.

If your listings are inaccurate, or your area is not covered, please realize that Watson is only “surfing” TV Guide's site. You can verify this by viewing the TVGuide.com listings from your browser and, if there is a problem, Send them feedback.

Viewing the TV Grid

The grid shows two or three hours at a time (depending on your provider). You can change the timeframe or the date from the popup menus, or click the left and right arrow buttons (or (?-[ and ?-]) to move forward and backwards in time. Clicking Now will update the display for the current time. Clicking on a program item will load more information about that item in the detail drawer.

You can display all channels, or just your favorite ones. Check the checkbox to the left of each channel to make it your favorite. (Hold down the command key while clicking to select or deselect all channels; it might be easier to select all and deselect the channels you don't care for.) Select Favorite or All to change the viewing options.



Searching

Enter an actor's name or the title of a TV show or movie in the text field, and click Find. A list of shows matching your search terms will be displayed. If the results list is long, you can click More Results to continue searching. Click on the column headers to sort by date/time, channel, station name, or title. Click on an individual row to see more detail about that program.

Changing Providers

If you need to switch between one provider and another -- for instance, if you watch both broadcast and satellite TV -- then you have two choices. One is to register at tvguide.com with two different e-mail addresses, each set to a different set of preferences. From the settings drawer, enter the e-mail address that corresponds to the profile you wish to see. Alternatively, you can go to TVGuide.com in your browser (from the Tool menu) and click "Change Provider". (Afterwards, click the "Now" button in Watson to force it to recognize the new information.)

Viewing and Recording with EyeTV

If you have a digital video recorder such as El Gato's EyeTV, you can use Watson to view and record TV shows. After making a selection from the grid or search list, click the "eye" button to watch a show (only available if the show is currently airing) or the red "record" icon to schedule the show to be recorded. (If these buttons are never enabled, it is because your Mac OS X system cannot find a suitable application to open ".tvpi" and ".tvvi" files.) Thanks to Ben Hines for contributing this feature.

Scheduling with iCal

You can add a television program to your iCal calendar. After making a selection from the grid or search list, click the iCal button to add the program to your "TV" calendar. (If no iCal calendar called "TV" is found, it will use your "Home" calendar.) By option-clicking on the button, the program will be added as an event that repeats every week.

[warr]

Thanks for the Watson tip!

This is what I tried and it seems to work slick!

I use watson as my TV guide/calendar. When I find a show that I want to record I click the ical icon in watson. The listing appears in ical showing the start time and end time in the ical info window. I first use the launch and record script, make a second alarm and use the stop and quit script and set it for X minutes after. (to make a second alarm just put the mouse over "Alarm" and click. It will then give you a choice of using a second alarm.)

Simple and VERY quick!

[mikemav]

Cool-
Does anyone want to check w/ Karelia to see if the SDK they have available would allow us to modify the EyeTV record button in the TV guide to launch these scripts? I do not know what .tvpi or .tvvi files are, but the info on the tool sates this what the application uses. I would be glad to help if I knew more about Apple programming.

Also, forgive me if this has already been covered, but does VirtualDVHS allow you to change the channels/ control on the Motorola 6200? And is anyone playing back the .M2T files on a MyHD card in a PC successfully? I think I will change from DirecTV to Adelphia cable w/ the 6200 if I can tie this all together to record HBO, etc....on my G4. I have networked hard drives, so I assume the Mac can save recordings to an SMB share?

[warr]

Here is what my ical looks like to record a program, see the two alarms.
http://www.warrguitars.com/ical.html

[rcliff]

Originally posted by mikemav
does VirtualDVHS allow you to change the channels/ control on the Motorola 6200?
No. Virtual D-VHS has no way of directly changing channels on the STB.
is anyone playing back the .M2T files on a MyHD card in a PC successfully?
Yes, someone reported this to work.
I have networked hard drives, so I assume the Mac can save recordings to an SMB share? You may have a speed problem with this. Maybe not if your using gigabit ethernet. An external firewire hard drive would be ideal. You can connect that to the PC and if you get an enclosure with both firewire and USB2 you could also connect to the PC with USB. Just make sure you use a disk format that your PC can read.

[mikemav]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rcliff
[B]No. Virtual D-VHS has no way of directly changing channels on the STB.
Thanks for the info. That's a shame. Maybe this is a little to convoluted, but I wonder if anyone has tried a stand-alone TiVo with a set-up like this. If I understand the 6200 features correctly, it can output 480i as well as the HD picture. The TiVo could be scheduled to record the SDTV picture as a backup and would also change the channel on the STB to the correct program. Then you could schedule the HD record for the same time for those programs you want to capture in HD, and be assured the STB will be on the right channel (since the TiVo will change it for you.) Does that sound possible?

[SBryan]

Originally posted by mikemav
... Also, forgive me if this has already been covered, but does VirtualDVHS allow you to change the channels/ control on the Motorola 6200?... I watch the discussion here to see what the reality of the situation currently is, but there is no technical reason why VirtualDVHS or some other program on the Mac should not be able to change channels on an STB. There are AV/C protocols defined for DTV tuners which would allow a program running on a Mac connected via FireWire to query the tuner about which channels it has available and to set which channel is to be viewed or recorded.

I believe even in the case of the Samsung SIRT165 the control resides in the STB so it sets the channel and sends AV/C commands to the DVHS deck (virtual or actual) when to record and stop. Does anyone know of any STB that responds to the tuner protocols?

If such protocol enabled tuners were prevalent it would be possible to make essentially any Mac serve as a convenient recorder for HDTV. Without those protocols it remains a hobbyist demo that is cool but unlikely to become mainstream. Add that one piece (and don't lock down FireWire with 5C in future STB's) and you have an HDTV recorder that could work directly with TitanTV, be controllable from anywhere in the world where IP is present, and possibly handle multiple tuners recording to user upgradeable cheap mass storage.

[jsb_hburg]

The 6200 can be set up to change channels at a specific time for a specific duration. I use the MyHD card to playback the .m2t files without any problem. I recommend using a Firewire external drive to capture the files via the Mac and network it with the computer running MyHD.

Two alarms on one event: that's great, especially in combination with Watson TV plug-in.

Someone mentioned using the Mac as a remote control using iRed and the related hardware. This software (http://www.prefab.com/uibrowser/) can help write the scripts to change channels using iCal. I suppose a third alarm can be added? This would be useful in those cities where the date and time info sent by the stations are unreliable when using the STB to set up timed recordings.

[mikemav]

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
The 6200 can be set up to change channels at a specific time for a specific duration. I use the MyHD card to playback the .m2t files without any problem. I recommend using a Firewire external drive to capture the files via the Mac and network it with the computer running MyHD.



Joe, could you elaborate on how the 6200 can be set up to change channels. Is this a function of the Mac software, something that is done with the 6200 OSD, or other method? If it could be added to the iCal functions as you mention, then we are almost there. The only better thing would be a TitanTV helper app for the Mac as the previous poster mentioned.

I have the MyHD as well. Have you ever tried to record to the PC's hard drive over a 100base-T network? I have my PC drives shared with the Mac, but do not currently have a firewire drive. I also have a gig-E switch, but have not changed from 100meg to gig-E yet. Could go gig if that would make a difference.

I also notice MyHD has a D-VHS option. Does this somehow control the Mac-6200 connection, or do you just need to play the captured file on the MyHD the same way you would a .TS captured by MyHD?

[rcliff]

Originally posted by SBryan
I watch the discussion here to see what the reality of the situation currently is, but there is no technical reason why VirtualDVHS or some other program on the Mac should not be able to change channels on an STB. There are AV/C protocols defined for DTV tuners which would allow a program running on a Mac connected via FireWire to query the tuner about which channels it has available and to set which channel is to be viewed or recorded.
Since the source code is available, I'm hoping someone will implement this feature so that Virtual DVHS can change the STB channel directly. It may be wishful thinking though.

[EatingPie]

IF the STB responds to the Tuner protocols, you can use a Mac *now* to change the channel. Not easily of course... :)

AVCBrowser, in the Device Controller section, has a way to enter a hexidecimal AV/C command. You just need to figure out the command, the target address, the arguments -- encode that into hex -- and you got it! :)

Here's the document you need to figure this out...

AVC Digital Interface Command Set General Specification v3.0 (http://pbx.mine.nu/dvhs/AVC_30.pdf)

According to one site, this has been superceded by two documents: AV/C Digital Interface Command Set General Specification Version 4.0 and the AV/C Descriptor Mechanism Specification Version 1.0 documents. One site sells v4.0 for a whopping $300 smackers. But many of the commands I tried from v3.0 got working replies.

This ain't for the faint of heart. You need to know hexidecimal, and bit encoding. It's pretty freakin ugly. And I had to reset my TV after messin' around with this, so make sure you target your target!

If you set VirtualDVHS to AVC Verbose Logging, you can see the actual hexidecimal AVC commands. I'll post some examples when I get home tonight, if anyone is curious.

If anyone else finds an easy reference to AVC commands + hex equivalents, please post it.

-Pie

[FriarWyer]

I doubt the 6200 has a tuner subunit, but it could have a panel subunit, supporting the pass-through command, with the "deterministic tune" capability.

Can somebody with a functional FireWire equiped STB, use AVCBrowser to issue the "Subunit Info" command (one of the buttons on the GUI interface), and post the bytes from the response packet? This will tell us what subunits are part of their AV/C unit.

[FriarWyer]

I guess what I mean is, I doubt the 6200 has a "fully implemented" tuner subunit. It may report it has a tuner subunit (via subunit info command) for device discovery reasons, but it is unlikely that its tuner subunit responds to the commands specified in the tuner subunit specification. That is a pretty complex subunit to implement.

[rcliff]

Originally posted by FriarWyer
Can somebody with a functional FireWire equiped STB, use AVCBrowser to issue the "Subunit Info" command (one of the buttons on the GUI interface), and post the bytes from the response packet? This will tell us what subunits are part of their AV/C unit.
My Sony DHG-M55CV reports this...

=============== Sent AVC Command ===============
cType: Status
subUnit: 0xFF
opCode: Sub-Unit Info (0x31)
FCP Command Frame:
01 FF 31 07 FF FF FF FF

=============== Received AVC Response ===============
response: Implemented/Stable
subUnit: 0xFF
opCode: Sub-Unit Info (0x31)
FCP Response Frame:
0C FF 31 07 28 FF FF FF

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by mikemav
Joe, could you elaborate on how the 6200 can be set up to change channels. Is this a function of the Mac software, something that is done with the 6200 OSD, or other method? If it could be added to the iCal functions as you mention, then we are almost there. The only better thing would be a TitanTV helper app for the Mac as the previous poster mentioned.

...



Using the remote for the 6200, (recalling from memory) press menu and then select main menu/setup/timers to get to the 6200 screen to schedule channel changes.

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by FriarWyer
I doubt the 6200 has a tuner subunit, but it could have a panel subunit, supporting the pass-through command, with the "deterministic tune" capability.

Can somebody with a functional FireWire equiped STB, use AVCBrowser to issue the "Subunit Info" command (one of the buttons on the GUI interface), and post the bytes from the response packet? This will tell us what subunits are part of their AV/C unit.


From my Motorola 6200

=============== Sent AVC Command ===============
cType: Status
subUnit: 0xFF
opCode: Sub-Unit Info (0x31)
FCP Command Frame:
01 FF 31 07 FF FF FF FF

=============== Received AVC Response ===============
response: Implemented/Stable
subUnit: 0xFF
opCode: Sub-Unit Info (0x31)
FCP Response Frame:
0C FF 31 07 28 48 FF FF

[FriarWyer]

=============== Received AVC Response ===============
response: Implemented/Stable
subUnit: 0xFF
opCode: Sub-Unit Info (0x31)
FCP Response Frame:
0C FF 31 07 28 48 FF FF

The 28 specifies a tuner subunit
The 48 specifies a panel subunit

So it looks like your 6200 does indeed have a panel subunit.

While the tuner subunit is there only for device matching, the panel subunit possibly does have some useful functionality with regards to FireWire driven channel changing.

There are two types of panel subunit implementations, direct mode, and indirect mode.

Direct mode is the more complex mode, where the target device (STB) can actually export a full, multi-page GUI control panel (with buttons, icons, sliders, etc.) to the controller (DTV), then the DTV sends "USER ACTION" commands to the STB when the user interacts with the various elements of the on-screen panel. It's possible, but unlikely that this device implements a direct-mode panel subunit. You can test to see if this devices supports a direct-mode panel subunit by hooking it to a Mits TV (with FireWire), and selecting it as the current device, and pushing the "Device Menu" on the Mits remote.

The other type of panel subunit, the indirect-mode, is a much simpler implementation. This mode supports only one AV/C command, the "PASS-THROUGH" command, that represents button press/release from a remote-control being "passed through" the FireWire cable to the target device.

In the latest AV/C panel specification (currently 1.21), new operation_ids were added for deterministic functionality. Previous versions of the spec had "channel up" and "channel down", but now we have the "tune" operation where you specify the exact channel to tune to (a much more useful method of handling this).

AVCBrowser can be used to send commands to the panel subunit. Without going in to great detail here, you could try:

00487CE70400xxFFFF,

where xx is the channel number from 0x00 to 0xFF (in hex).

Note that AV/C targets can be fussy with regards to the exact values of operands in an AV/C command (vs. what it is expecting), so if that doesn't work, the device may reject the command, yet still support the tune functionality if a few of the bytes are changed (for example, the reserved bytes FFFF, may need to be 0000). There are other changes that may need to be made to other bytes as well. Since I don't have one of these cool boxes, I cannot experiment for myself, and it would probably require that you have access to the 1394TA spec to know what to tweak from there.

Good luck.

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by FriarWyer
...

AVCBrowser can be used to send commands to the panel subunit. Without going in to great detail here, you could try:

00487CE70400xxFFFF,

where xx is the channel number from 0x00 to 0xFF (in hex).

Note that AV/C targets can be fussy with regards to the exact values of operands in an AV/C command (vs. what it is expecting), so if that doesn't work, the device may reject the command, yet still support the tune functionality if a few of the bytes are changed (for example, the reserved bytes FFFF, may need to be 0000). There are other changes that may need to be made to other bytes as well. Since I don't have one of these cool boxes, I cannot experiment for myself, and it would probably require that you have access to the 1394TA spec to know what to tweak from there.

Good luck.

FriarWyer:

So, this AV/C command, 00487CE70400B3FFFF, should tune the 6200 to channel 179? Could this command, if slightly off, mess things up? Is there a restore hex command just in case? So, I can then substitute the 0000 for the FFFF.

There are 30 input plugs on the 6200. The values for Online, Broadcast, Point to Point and Channel are 1,1,30 and 45 respectively. Is there an AV/C command to make the 6200 decode and display a .m2t file that is to be played via VirtualDVHS. Simply clicking on Connect under the Input Plug of AVC Browser after setting the channel to 45 in both AVC Browser and the Player side of VirtualDVHS does not cause the 6200 to decode and display the .m2t file.

Do you have any ideas on playback through the 6200?

Thanks for the external Firewire drive idea as it has practically eliminated the number of overruns.

[timecop]

There's a separate AV/C Tuner specification.
It uses AVC Descriptors / objects and is a pain in the ass to implement as mentioned by someone else earlier.
I think it is highly unlikely that anyone will be able to "control the tuner" using hex commands from AVCBrowser.
Better off writing extra code for VirtualDVHS to set/change tuner channels.

I have the specifications, if someone is seriously interested in this, contact me I guess.

[FriarWyer]

So, this AV/C command, 00487CE70400B3FFFF, should tune the 6200 to channel 179? Could this command, if slightly off, mess things up? Is there a restore hex command just in case?

There are 30 input plugs on the 6200. The values for Online, Broadcast, Point to Point and Channel are 1,1,30 and 45 respectively. Is there an AV/C command to make the 6200 decode and display a .m2t file that is to be played via VirtualDVHS. Simply clicking on Connect under the Input Plug of AVC Browser after setting the channel to 45 in both AVC Browser and the Player side of VirtualDVHS does not cause the 6200 to decode and display the .m2t file.

Do you have any ideas on playback through the 6200?


If the above AV/C command doesn't work (rejected by the device), it won't have any bad side-effects, it just won't do anything. Nothing with this particular AV/C command should have lasting effects on the box.

Note that there are actually 12-bits of channel number in this command (the preceding 0 could also be used to extend this to up to 4095 channels).

Regarding sending a FireWire stream to playback through the 6200, I believe that the "30 input plugs" is misleading. That's actually a bug in AVCBrowser, in that doesn't expect an AV/C device not to implement the "Input Master Plug Register", and misinterprets the fact that the read of the iMPR fails as it having 30 input plugs. In fact, this device doesn't implement ANY isoch input plugs, and therefore currently doesn't have any input capability.

I guess, for now, the solution is to capture the stream from the 6200, then feed the stream to the FireWire enabled TV (using VirtualDVHS, or equivalent). But, if you don't have a FireWire enabled TV (or other STB), I guess you're out of luck (or should I say, buy a Mits ;) ). Maybe some future firmware upgrade to the box could address this, since it obviously has a MPEG2 decoder built in.

[jsb_hburg]

FriarWyer,

I gave it a try. This is from the log...

=============== Sent AVC Command ===============
cType: Control
subUnit: 0x48
opCode: Unknown (0x7C)
FCP Command Frame:
00 48 7C E7 04 00 B3 FF FF

=============== Received AVC Response ===============
response: Not Implemented
subUnit: 0x48
opCode: Unknown (0x7C)
FCP Response Frame:
08 48 7C E7 04 00 B3 FF FF

I received a similar response after substituting 0000 for FFFF.



When I click on Input Signal Format...

=============== Sent AVC Command ===============
cType: Status
subUnit: 0xFF
opCode: Input Plug Signal Format (0x19)
FCP Command Frame:
01 FF 19 00 FF FF FF FF

=============== Received AVC Response ===============
response: Not Implemented
subUnit: 0xFF
opCode: Input Plug Signal Format (0x19)
FCP Response Frame:
08 FF 19 00 FF FF FF FF


Thanks for your help on this. I do have a couple of ways to decode these files. For the 6200 to do the work, a firmware update will be needed.

[jsb_hburg]

Hello,

I updated http://mac_hdtv_timer.home.comcast.net to reflect some of the great tips posted here at this page (http://mac_hdtv_timer.home.comcast.net/tips.html) .


Pie,

Any luck in finding the # out value in AVC Browser for your SA box?

[warr]

Joe,

You can make as many alarms as you like on ical for a single event! Pretty nifty!

[EatingPie]

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
In the first AVC Browser window, you will see a list of AVC devices connected to the Mac. You should see one for your Firewire tuner. You should see columns labelled: Name, Type, GUID, In Speed, Out Speed, # in, # out and Out Base.

What is the number that you see under the column titled # out? Please let us know. [/B]
#out: 1

I'm guessing that's the right value?

-Pie

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by warr
Joe,

You can make as many alarms as you like on ical for a single event! Pretty nifty!

Yeah! I thought one was awesome in the beginning. The multiple alarms and the Watson plug-in makes set-up even easier.

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by EatingPie
#out: 1

I'm guessing that's the right value?

-Pie

Yep, 1 is good. Try VirtualDVHS without AVC Browser and see if you can record. If you are getting an empty file, then use AVC Browser. Click on the Connect button under the Output Plug on the AV/C Device window and then click record on VirtualDVHS. You must have VirtualDVHS up and running before you click on Connect. Be sure to read the PDF on initiating connection.

Good luck and it should work especially if you click on the Output Plug Signal Format button on the AV/C Device window and the response is Implemented/Stable.

You will need to set up the transport stream directory as well, before recording.

[tinb]

Originally posted by rcliff
Cool, I'll have to check that out. I have a tira usb blaster that I've used on the PC. I wonder if that will work.

I do have plans to support the Tira, too. Actually only the IRTrans is supported. Its a matter of interest, though ;-)

Cheers, Robert (developer of iRed)

[dozens]

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
Hello,

I updated http://mac_hdtv_timer.home.comcast.net to reflect some of the great tips posted here at this page (http://mac_hdtv_timer.home.comcast.net/tips.html) .

Just read your updated tips. I see the you say you a 250gig, 8mb cache firewire drive to eliminate overuns. Is 8mb required ? I just picked up an 80gig, 2mb cache firewire drive last night. It was cheapest one I could find. I will test tonight if 2mb cache is enough.

[jgvp]

The more I read from the beginning to the latest posting the more I became befuddled as the programming boffins delved deeper into the snags and work-arounds. I am not a computer science graduate but some of the present Mac software programs I deduce as being feasible. However, does any of this relate to using a G5 with Panther for recording HDTV from a satellite TV STB (with no Firewire) in combination with a Sony GWII (again no Firewire). Please advise whether it is feasible, and if not what work-arounds would be needed to make it so. Thanks guys.

[SBryan]

Originally posted by jgvp
... no Firewire). Please advise whether it is feasible ...
Sorry, this stuff depends crucially on the HD signal being in the form of an MPEG2 transport stream. If your STB only has component outputs, that is an uncompressed HD signal which is about 100 times as much data per second as a transport stream which is what you get from a FireWire interface.

Going from transport stream to uncompressed HD is hard enough. Going in the other direction (which is what you would need) is too difficult for current consumer technology.

The good news is that the FCC has a directive that as of April 1 of this year (about a week ago) cable companies are required to provide a FireWire interface on their STB if a customer requests it. I'm sure that is a simplification but you can check other discussions here to get a more accurate status report on this issue. The bad news is that even if your STB has FireWire that does not guarantee it supports all the needed protocols. But it is a good, and necessary, first step.

[mikemav]

Originally posted by SBryan


The good news is that the FCC has a directive that as of April 1 of this year (about a week ago) cable companies are required to provide a FireWire interface on their STB if a customer requests it. I'm sure that is a simplification but you can check other discussions here to get a more accurate status report on this issue. The bad news is that even if your STB has FireWire that does not guarantee it supports all the needed protocols. But it is a good, and necessary, first step.

This may be best for another thread, but since you mention the ruling, I was wondering if it effects Voom (and if not, why not....i.e, what is the thinking in only impacting cable companies?) I am planning a Mac-based set-up to capture premium HD channels, and unfortunately my Adelphia has exactly one HD channel now that I do not already get OTA (HBO.) Voom has about 20. I will look around for other threads on this. Sorry to delve off topic here, you mentioning the ruling got my curiosity up.

[rcliff]

Originally posted by jgvp
does any of this relate to using a G5 with Panther for recording HDTV from a satellite TV STB (with no Firewire) in combination with a Sony GWII (again no Firewire).
No, firewire is the critical mechanism for moving the stream to and from the Mac. Firewire is only currently available for OTA and cable not satellite. The upcoming Dish 921 DVR may change that.

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by dozens
Just read your updated tips. I see the you say you a 250gig, 8mb cache firewire drive to eliminate overuns. Is 8mb required ? I just picked up an 80gig, 2mb cache firewire drive last night. It was cheapest one I could find. I will test tonight if 2mb cache is enough.

This wasn't meant to convey a minimum but an optimum. I think a Firewire drive makes a difference especially at 7200 RPM. A drive with USB 2.0 combined with MacDrive on a Windows machine would let you use the HFS+ formatted drive with a Windows machine if the intent is to use MyHD for decode.

I believe my Maxtor 250 GB, 7200 RBM, FireWire, USB 2.0 was offered as 8 MB cache only.

[dozens]

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
This wasn't meant to convey a minimum but an optimum. I think a Firewire drive makes a difference especially at 7200 RPM. A drive with USB 2.0 combined with MacDrive on a Windows machine would let you use the HFS+ formatted drive with a Windows machine if the intent is to use MyHD for decode.

I believe my Maxtor 250 GB, 7200 RBM, FireWire, USB 2.0 was offered as 8 MB cache only.

Like I said I will report tonight on my success. I will be recording the Bruins on INHD2.

My drive is 7200 RPM so hopefully it is enough. How should I format that drive so that I can share it with windows and macos ? I am a mac newbie so if I need to format it there please give me some detailed steps :)

[EatingPie]

Now on another note... How 'bout some recommendations on firewire cable? I've searched the net, tons of firewire cables out there... but nobody talking about what's good.

-Pie

[jgvp]

>No, firewire is the critical mechanism for moving the stream to and from the Mac. Firewire is only >currently available for OTA and cable not satellite. The upcoming Dish 921 DVR may change that.

Unlike another poster who was going to buy an external Firewire 7200 rpm H/D, I already have one but looks like I'm going to be out of luck anyway. I made a point of checking that before posting my comment, Cliff, and the long awaited Dish 921 DVR does NOT have Firewire, 1394, etc. But even if it did, why even bother if the 921 essentially records satellite HDTV without it ?

[jgvp]

Originally posted by SBryan
Sorry, this stuff depends crucially on the HD signal being in the form of an MPEG2 transport stream. If your STB only has component outputs, that is an uncompressed HD signal which is about 100 times as much data per second as a transport stream which is what you get from a FireWire interface.

Going from transport stream to uncompressed HD is hard enough. Going in the other direction (which is what you would need) is too difficult for current consumer technology.

The good news is that the FCC has a directive that as of April 1 of this year (about a week ago) cable companies are required to provide a FireWire interface on their STB if a customer requests it. I

Once again, there's that fly in the ointment ! Cable TV companies, not Satellite TV companies. Thanks.

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by jgvp
>No, firewire is the critical mechanism for moving the stream to and from the Mac. Firewire is only >currently available for OTA and cable not satellite. The upcoming Dish 921 DVR may change that.

Unlike another poster who was going to buy an external Firewire 7200 rpm H/D, I already have one but looks like I'm going to be out of luck anyway. I made a point of checking that before posting my comment, Cliff, and the long awaited Dish 921 DVR does NOT have Firewire, 1394, etc. But even if it did, why even bother if the 921 essentially records satellite HDTV without it ?

I thought the 921 had "Dishwire" in which case if you do get one and if you already have a Mac, you can probe the output plug to see if you can record to the Mac.

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by EatingPie
Now on another note... How 'bout some recommendations on firewire cable? I've searched the net, tons of firewire cables out there... but nobody talking about what's good.

-Pie

Pie,

Try Pacific Cables. Here's a part number (http://www.pacificcable.com/Picture_Page.asp?DataName=IEEE1394-1) . Local stores will typically have the 4 to 6 pin variety. Your box, SA 3250 if I recall correctly, has a 6 pin port. I have had good luck with their DVI cable, which was monstrously cheaper.

[jgvp]

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
I thought the 921 had "Dishwire" in which case if you do get one and if you already have a Mac, you can probe the output plug to see if you can record to the Mac.

I stand corrected. I was looking for the Firewire symbol, since they showed the USB symbol by a port without the caption, and sure enough they have two Dishwire "audio/video connection ports for interface with select IEEE 1394 products." Now we have to find out which "select" products they're referring to. If the Dish 921 can record HDTV to a PVR, I don't think I would bother recording to the Mac, unless of course I wanted a DVD copy of some important program for posterity. Nice to know that after all the expense at least I could achieve that objective, unless "Big Brother" says that a No-No too. Problem is the Dish 921 hasn't made its way to the Great White North.......yet.

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by dozens
Like I said I will report tonight on my success. I will be recording the Bruins on INHD2.

My drive is 7200 RPM so hopefully it is enough. How should I format that drive so that I can share it with windows and macos ? I am a mac newbie so if I need to format it there please give me some detailed steps :)

MacDrive can be found here (http://www.mediafour.com/products/macdrive/) . I have not tried it out but the software is supposed to permit a Mac user to connect his Mac-formatted hard drive to a Windows machine as opposed to using a network connection to share files. Mac OS X user would format the drive using the HFS+ (Mac OS Extended) for use on the Mac. MacDrive 5 would be installed on the Windows machine that would be connected to the Mac-formatted drive in order to browse the files in Windows Explorer, etc. You can connect using Firewire or USB 2.0, assuming one or both ports are installed.

You can also network the drive. You can set up the share for the external drive using the pointers provided in previous posts. Again, this drive can be formatted as HFS+.

Of course, if this drive is to be dedicated for use with VirtualDVHS, HFS+ is the way to go.

A faster Firewire drive would mitigate or eliminate glitches introduced by the Mac. I am not sure about glitches present in the transport from the headend to the STB.

[FriarWyer]

I second the recommendation for MacDrive 5. It's the best way to share large FireWire drives between Mac and Windows platforms.

[dozens]

I just finished recording the Bruins on Comcast's INHD2 (1080i broadcast) without a single overrun error. As recommended here I used an external firewire drive (80 gig, 2 mb cache). During the game I was getting 17-18 mb/sec

[rudolpht]

Originally posted by jgvp
But even if it did, why even bother if the 921 essentially records satellite HDTV without it ?

For archiving the content. The closed hard drive (not removable/changeable limits to the built in confines. I ran out of space in a couple weeks of things I wanted to archive before I sold the unit. The lack of progress in turning the FW on is typical Dish.

[rcliff]

Originally posted by jgvp
I made a point of checking that before posting my comment, Cliff, and the long awaited Dish 921 DVR does NOT have Firewire, 1394, etc. But even if it did, why even bother if the 921 essentially records satellite HDTV without it ?
It will indeed have firewire but whether or not it will work with Virtual DVHS is unclear. The fact that it is a DVR and can record HD makes offline archiving even more important because disk recording capacity is greatly reduced even on 250GB hard drives. While you can store 200+ hours of SD recording on a 250GB disk, you can only record 30 or so hours of HD. Having a means to archive via firewire is a big plus IMO.

[rcliff]

Regarding all the posts about firewire hard drive speeds, I haven't seen any performance problems with a variety of firewire drives ranging from 30 to 120 GB and 5400 to 7200 RPM. I've also had good results with internal ATA drives. The bottleneck should not be the drive there. Internal Powerbook drives may be the exception. I'll try to do some tests with my iBook tomorrow.

[EatingPie]

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
Good luck and it should work especially if you click on the Output Plug Signal Format button on the AV/C Device window and the response is Implemented/Stable.

No luck in this regard, but I have had luck in another arena.... and I still have a hard time believing this!! First, a list of equiptment.

Mitsubishi 73711 TV
SA 3250HD Cable Box
JVC HM-D30000U D-VHS
Powerbook 15'' Aluminum, Panther 10.3.3

Originally, I had everything networked through the TV. None of this worked out for me. But the cable guy came out and we swapped cable (!!) like crazy. After breaking the TV out of the chain, we ran the Cable Box to the rear Firewire port of the D-VHS Deck. Then we ran the component outs of the JVC to the TV. Lo and behold, we got a picture! I could even record HBO-HD!!

I then ran my Powerbook to the front Firewire port on the D-VHS deck, and lo and behold, I could record!! Just set VirtualDVHS to Channel 63, and pressed record... behold disk space disappearing at an alarming rate!

Now here's the strange part. This was the only configuration that worked! Powerbook to 2nd Port on the 3250, no go. TV to 3250, no go. TV to front port on D-VHS, no go. (The TV hates this box... I'll be calling Mitsubishi.)

Only one configuration worked....

3250 --> rear D-VHS -- front D-VHS --> Powerbook

Putting the TV anywhere in the chain killed it. Powerbook anywhere else killed it.

I find this whole thing very strange indeed! First off, the D-VHS can decode the rear firewire in and output HD through its component outs... even when NOT recording! And then the only way I can record to the Powerbook... through the front port on the D-VHS! Strange strange strange.

Guess this is what I get for being the first (and only) TWC San Diego customer using firewire!

Any ideas? Anything else I should check for some insight?

-Pie

[jgvp]

Originally posted by rudolpht
For archiving the content. The closed hard drive (not removable/changeable limits to the built in confines. I ran out of space in a couple weeks of things I wanted to archive before I sold the unit. The lack of progress in turning the FW on is typical Dish.

That's why I mentioned recording to DVD for archiving, but now you say that Dish hasn't even turned on their Dishwire connections. I wondered about the nomenclature, why they didn't use the Firewire symbol or even the word Firewire on those two connections. Will we ever see manufacturers even strive to standardize for the consumer's benefit ?

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by EatingPie
No luck in this regard, but I have had luck in another arena.... and I still have a hard time believing this!! First, a list of equiptment.

Mitsubishi 73711 TV
SA 3250HD Cable Box
JVC HM-D30000U D-VHS
Powerbook 15'' Aluminum, Panther 10.3.3

Originally, I had everything networked through the TV. None of this worked out for me. But the cable guy came out and we swapped cable (!!) like crazy. After breaking the TV out of the chain, we ran the Cable Box to the rear Firewire port of the D-VHS Deck. Then we ran the component outs of the JVC to the TV. Lo and behold, we got a picture! I could even record HBO-HD!!

I then ran my Powerbook to the front Firewire port on the D-VHS deck, and lo and behold, I could record!! Just set VirtualDVHS to Channel 63, and pressed record... behold disk space disappearing at an alarming rate!

Now here's the strange part. This was the only configuration that worked! Powerbook to 2nd Port on the 3250, no go. TV to 3250, no go. TV to front port on D-VHS, no go. (The TV hates this box... I'll be calling Mitsubishi.)

Only one configuration worked....

3250 --> rear D-VHS -- front D-VHS --> Powerbook

Putting the TV anywhere in the chain killed it. Powerbook anywhere else killed it.

I find this whole thing very strange indeed! First off, the D-VHS can decode the rear firewire in and output HD through its component outs... even when NOT recording! And then the only way I can record to the Powerbook... through the front port on the D-VHS! Strange strange strange.

Guess this is what I get for being the first (and only) TWC San Diego customer using firewire!

Any ideas? Anything else I should check for some insight?

-Pie

Pie,

It sounds like you know one way to record to the Mac.

If you do not mind, please check these steps. As you know, I would like to revise the scripts to make a version for the SA3250.

1. Connect only the Powerbook to the 3250 while both the 3250 and Powerbook are powered off. Take JVC out of the chain.

2. Power on the 3250 and then the Powerbook.

3. Launch VirtualDVHS.

4. Launch AVC Browser

5. Once VirtualDVHS has loaded the transport library, highlight the 3250 by clicking on it in the AV/C Devices list and click on the Open Device Controller button.

6. Click on the Output Plug Signal Format button and copy and paste the Received AV/C Response from the log in a reply post.

7. Confirm that the value in the Ouput Plugs field is 1.

8. Change the channel number to 0 in the Channel dropdown menu just below the Output Plugs and its corresponding field.

9. Click on the Connect button in the Output Plugs section copy and paste the Response from the log in a reply post.

10. Change the channel on the recorder side of VirtualDVHS to 0 and then click on the record button and recording activity should begin.

Please report what happened and the responses in steps 6 and 9. If successful, it would great to see a JPG of the entire AVC Browser AV/C device controller window for the 3250. Please report the name of the device that appears in the window title bar, "AV/C Device: ????????"

If it does not work, then try these steps again (beginning at Step 8) using channel 63 in AVC Browser and VirtualDVHS. Let us know what happens. If recording works, stop recording and change the channel to 0 (beginning at step 8) to see if recording will work at channel 0. Let us know what happens.

My 6200 will record while the programs are set to any channel. I keep it at 0. But, in the beginning, the 6200 required channel 1 and then allowed a channel change to 0. Your 3250 might be acting in the same way.


If you can get it to work through the JVC, you should get it to work with out the JVC unless other factors are at play. If all else fails, then go back to what works for your set-up, of course.

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by Killroy
Hey Joe,

I am trying to do something different with my t-165...

Is there any way to do a scheduled record without going through the STB's scheduling menu...meaning...is there a way to make the Mac's AV/C Device control or Virtual DVHS activate the start/stop recording on the t-165...

I have tried a few trial and errors but it does not seeem to be working...

I had a T165 but returned it this week. It was a buggy BB closeout special. If you are trying to use the 6200 scripts, some of them will not work with any other device, especially Launch & Record and Refresh & Record. You could use Record and Stop as I tested these two scripts manually from the AppleScript menu before returning the T165. Let me know what the exact title of the second AVC Browser device controller window is and I can then revise the scripts for the T165. You would have to manually tune the T165 to the right channel ahead of time, though. However, AVC Browser should not be required to use the T165 where the T165 is the only AV/C tuner connected via Firewire to the Mac.

In VirtualDVHS, try channel 63 or 0.

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by Killroy
I tried channel 0 & 63 but nothing happened...

AV/C control shows the t-165 as "SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS" (no quotes)....

If you could edit that script for me and let me play with it I would appreciate it...I am having problems with the t-165 not launching when the timer was set...so I was hoping that your script would solve that problem.

Thanks

I will work on it this evening.

[SBryan]

Originally posted by Killroy
...I am having problems with the t-165 not launching when the timer was set...so I was hoping that your script would solve that problem.
I don't have a T165 myself but from other discussions here I've heard some details that have been well confirmed. The problem with getting the T165 to start a recording at the proper time seems to be caused by stations that are being sloppy or incomplete in their handling of their clock. One of the items included in the digital signal from an ATSC station is the correct time and Samsung made the unfortunate design decision to rely inflexibly on the correctness of that source.

If you make an attempt to contact the technical staffs at Phoenix stations, you might be able to convince them it is worth their effort to get their clock signal working properly. It would be even more fortunate if all stations would get PSIP implemented so our program information could be more accurate and not dependent on an internet connection but that is just crazy talk.

[Cooknn]

I've got the SA 3100HD STB and a Toshiba 50H82 TheaterWideHD neither of which has Firewire - I do have a shiny new Dual 2Ghz G5 though. Can anyone offer advice on how I might make this happen? Thanks in advance.

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by Cooknn
I've got the SA 3100HD STB and a Toshiba 50H82 TheaterWideHD neither of which has Firewire - I do have a shiny new Dual 2Ghz G5 though. Can anyone offer advice on how I might make this happen? Thanks in advance.

You need to ask Comcast for an HD set-top-box with Firewire.

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by Killroy
I actaully contacted all the local affiliates last month and had them all correct their times (to the network times) and they did within a few days...but that still has them as far as two minutes off to each other...so its a little hard to coordinate back-to-back shows if they are on different networks...

BUT...my problem is that the t-165 will turn itself on (why it needs to be off is beyond me) and sets itself to the right channel but it fails to launch the VirtualDVHS app to start the recording.

Funny thing is that if I have three shows schedule or the same night it may work on the first two and fail the third one, or it may work on the first and third, or it may only work on the third one and completely miss the first two...

It is very random...so If I can get the Mac to start the recording using iCal and Joe's scripts hen I can bypass the silly scheduling system on the 165....

To be clear, the 6200 scripts do not change the channel on the STB. I am sure iRed could be scripted but I don't have iRed.

[Cooknn]

Originally posted by jsb_hburg
You need to ask Comcast for an HD set-top-box with Firewire. Easier said than done I'm finding. I called Comcast twice and both time received different info. The first lady told me the only HD STB's they had were the SA3100 and the Pace 550. No Firewire. Then I called back and asked if I could have an SA3250HD and was told that they could not do it, but that they did have that STB. Crazy.

Is there any way around the STB?

[rcliff]

Originally posted by Cooknn
Easier said than done I'm finding. I called Comcast twice and both time received different info. The first lady told me the only HD STB's they had were the SA3100 and the Pace 550. No Firewire. Then I called back and asked if I could have an SA3250HD and was told that they could not do it, but that they did have that STB. Crazy.

Is there any way around the STB?
There's no way to record without a firewire STB. Keep pushing Comcast and talk to a supervisor. There's an new FCC mandate that requires them to provide firewire upon request. The trouble is most people at these cable companies are slow to get the news about any product changes and won't know what your talking about.

[Cooknn]

Thanks I will. I was just reading about that mandate BTW :D

[jgvp]

Originally posted by rcliff
There's no way to record without a firewire STB.

There's a saying: "Forewarned is Forearmed". Too bad when we went shopping for the so-called latest technology in HDTV sets and STBs that we weren't apprised of the importance of the Firewire requirement essential in the capability to record the same HDTV.

I guess the electronic industry always keep themselves apprised of "the unsuspecting consumer" and the axiom "what they don't know won't hurt them" and when they ultimately do find out, then " sell them another box." I guess they regard it as what keeps the wheels of industry turning. Too bad the same philosophy doesn't apply to our disposable income.

[Cooknn]

Just got a call from a supervisor at Comcast. I'm getting an SA3250 tomorrow :)

[rcliff]

Great! Where there's a will, there's a way.

[Cooknn]

LOL thanks for providing the will :D The guy at Comcast said that I really knew my stuff. Heh. I told him that I hung with guys on the 'net that did ;)

[SBryan]

Originally posted by jgvp
... Too bad when we went shopping for the so-called latest technology in HDTV sets and STBs that we weren't apprised of the importance of the Firewire requirement essential in the capability to record the same HDTV. ...
First, I want to say I was happy beyond reason when Apple started supporting AV/C protocols over FireWire in their system software and frameworks. But I suspect all of this activity is at cross purposes to some powerful trends in the HDTV world. I would certainly encourage everyone to do what they can to take advantage of this opportunity while it lasts.

My concern is that when the broadcast flag directive goes into effect in the summer of 2005 the devices shipping with a FireWire interface will "go dark" for existing unencrypted FireWire devices. If you don't have 5C (ie encrypted) capability in your FireWire interface then you won't be able to connect to new devices even though the cables will still fit.

So, in a sense, the lack of awareness in your salesman might have the unintended effect of sparing you eventual frustration. The limited good news is that it seems unlikely that legacy devices will stop working. So those few who adopt early enough, seek out the right features, and keep the no longer available equipment working, they will have in the digitial future the same freedom to record that we had in the analog past.

[dozens]

Originally posted by Cooknn
Just got a call from a supervisor at Comcast. I'm getting an SA3250 tomorrow :)

What is a SA3250 ? I thought COmcast used DCT 6200.

[rcliff]

Originally posted by SBryan
First, I want to say I was happy beyond reason when Apple started supporting AV/C protocols over FireWire in their system software and frameworks. But I suspect all of this activity is at cross purposes to some powerful trends in the HDTV world. I would certainly encourage everyone to do what they can to take advantage of this opportunity while it lasts.

My concern is that when the broadcast flag directive goes into effect in the summer of 2005 the devices shipping with a FireWire interface will "go dark" for existing unencrypted FireWire devices. If you don't have 5C (ie encrypted) capability in your FireWire interface then you won't be able to connect to new devices even though the cables will still fit.

So, in a sense, the lack of awareness in your salesman might have the unintended effect of sparing you eventual frustration. The limited good news is that it seems unlikely that legacy devices will stop working. So those few who adopt early enough, seek out the right features, and keep the no longer available equipment working, they will have in the digitial future the same freedom to record that we had in the analog past.
I would tend to agree with this analysis. Stock up now on legacy devices and there should be support for quite some time even after 5C becomes reality. I can't see cable companies replacing their existing STB base and I'll bet they'll have spares if yours fails. New installs will probably require new boxes though. Now if they stop support for firewire on existing devices, a lot of people will be really po'd.

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by dozens
What is a SA3250 ? I thought COmcast used DCT 6200.

Different headends may use different equipment.

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by Killroy
I tried channel 0 & 63 but nothing happened...

AV/C control shows the t-165 as "SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS" (no quotes)....

If you could edit that script for me and let me play with it I would appreciate it...I am having problems with the t-165 not launching when the timer was set...so I was hoping that your script would solve that problem.

Thanks

Try these Sammy T165 scripts (http://mac_hdtv_timer.home.comcast.net/MacTimeShifter1.zip) . When I had the Sammy T165 last week, it worked on channel 0. Please let me know how it goes. You might need to try channel 1 also. The key is to open communications between the Mac and the T165. Then, you should be able to change the channel to 0. Trial and error is involved. But once you get channel 0 working, it should all be down hill using the scripts with iCal or manually from the AppleScript Menu.

[jgvp]

Originally posted by SBryan
First, I want to say I was happy beyond reason when Apple started supporting AV/C protocols over FireWire in their system software and frameworks. But I suspect all of this activity is at cross purposes to some powerful trends in the HDTV world. I would certainly encourage everyone to do what they can to take advantage of this opportunity while it lasts.

Well so was I, but I wonder is Steve Jobs aware that no matter what Apple does, it matters not one iota if you happened to have bought a HDTV and a STB that do not provide a Firewire connection, prior to his decision to support AV/C protocols. I do have a choice with regard to switching to another HDTV set, ( though I doubt whether I would opt for a Mitsubishi solely on account of the Firewire ,) but I'm afraid my satellite TV provider, Bell ExpressVU, an affiliate of Dish when it comes to STBs, etc. leaves me with no choice in the matter. If the 921's two Dishwire (LOL) connections are not 5C., then again I'm powerless to do anything about it.

I banked on the G5 to become my HTPC, but I obviously gambled and lost. "For the want of a nail !"

[JeremyJ]

I finally got Virtual D-VHS on my PowerBook G4 record from my 6200 somewhat reliably. Previously attempts always ended up in 0 data and eventually hard crashing VDVHS and the firewire bus. Requiring me to hard re-boot my machine.

Interestingly enough, contrary to everybody's recommendation, I have found that running AVCBrowser was the cause of the crashing. If I know the channel, Virtual D-VHS works great without AVCBrowser running, but if AVCBrowser is running I get a hard crash. Either immediately or after recording about 20 seconds of footage.

Also as a side note, I've found that there is no problem recording to a network device. In my case I'm recording to my G5 in another room via 100Mb ethernet. Just some FYI's for everyone.

I assume that nobody figured out how to change channels on the 6200 via firewire. I saw some code going back and forth between several of you, but I don't recall hearing whether any of those hex codes worked. Did they?

Also, while I love the cool integration of these Applescripts and iCal, this has motivated me to finally conquer Apple's Cocoa. I'm looking forward to creating an even more advanced TiVo-like software for the Mac.


Jeremy

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by jgvp
... If the 921's two Dishwire (LOL) connections are not 5C., then again I'm powerless to do anything about it.

I banked on the G5 to become my HTPC, but I obviously gambled and lost. "For the want of a nail !"

And if they are not? I have an over-the-air STB without 5C and I can record to VirtualDVHS via Firewire. And even if they are, the programmers will set the level of protection. VirtualDVHS should be able to record all content marked "copy freely" which includes broadcast and basic cable channels. Premium channels may be marked as restrictive as "copy once." We can copy today what the programmers are letting us copy with VirtualDVHS. Otherwise, I doubt that Firewire would have been enabled.

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by JeremyJ
I finally got Virtual D-VHS on my PowerBook G4 record from my 6200 somewhat reliably. Previously attempts always ended up in 0 data and eventually hard crashing VDVHS and the firewire bus. Requiring me to hard re-boot my machine.

Interestingly enough, contrary to everybody's recommendation, I have found that running AVCBrowser was the cause of the crashing. If I know the channel, Virtual D-VHS works great without AVCBrowser running, but if AVCBrowser is running I get a hard crash. Either immediately or after recording about 20 seconds of footage.

Also as a side note, I've found that there is no problem recording to a network device. In my case I'm recording to my G5 in another room via 100Mb ethernet. Just some FYI's for everyone.

I assume that nobody figured out how to change channels on the 6200 via firewire. I saw some code going back and forth between several of you, but I don't recall hearing whether any of those hex codes worked. Did they?

Also, while I love the cool integration of these Applescripts and iCal, this has motivated me to finally conquer Apple's Cocoa. I'm looking forward to creating an even more advanced TiVo-like software for the Mac.


Jeremy

What is the firmware on your 6200? 7.07 or 7.10?

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by JeremyJ
...

I assume that nobody figured out how to change channels on the 6200 via firewire. I saw some code going back and forth between several of you, but I don't recall hearing whether any of those hex codes worked. Did they?

No.

Originally posted by JeremyJ


Also, while I love the cool integration of these Applescripts and iCal, this has motivated me to finally conquer Apple's Cocoa. I'm looking forward to creating an even more advanced TiVo-like software for the Mac.


Jeremy

Good luck and I hope all goes well.

[Cooknn]

Couple of questions: As mentioned previously I'll be picking up my SA 3250HD Firewire enabled STB tomorrow and I've got a 6-pin to 6-pin Firewire cable running from my G5 to where my new STB will live. I've downloaded VirtualDVHS and am reading all the doc's, etc.

One thing I don't understand - since I don't have Firewire on my TV I need to buy a D-VHS to make this setup work? That's like $500-$700. Why would I want to record from my Mac if I could record directly to the D-VHS? I was hoping for a less expensive solution, but for that kind of change I may wait for Comcast to release their forthcoming HD DVR.

What are the advantages of doing this from a Mac? I suppose I could play back my HD content on my G5 with VLC, correct? That would be free :)

[jsb_hburg]

Originally posted by Cooknn
Couple of questions: As mentioned previously I'll be picking up my SA 3250HD Firewire enabled STB tomorrow and I've got a 6-pin to 6-pin Firewire cable running from my G5 to where my new STB will live. I've downloaded VirtualDVHS and am reading all the doc's, etc.

One thing I don't understand - since I don't have Firewire on my TV I need to buy a D-VHS to make this setup work? That's like $500