On a lark, I was leafing through the Behr swatches at my local Home Depot, and found the "Silver Screen" paint. Light grey, seemed similar to the "Misty Evening". So, I rolled two coats on a piece of white GatorFoam, and voila, a cheap two coat solution.

In my opinion, this gives definite contrast enhancement and deeper blacks than plain blackout cloth or the white GatorFoam surface. If you are looking for a quick down-and-dirty screen for your LCD projector, this took approx 3 hours total, most of that time was waiting for the coats to dry.

--------------------------
The Surface Material:
GatorFoam Board (a foam core artist material used for poster mounting)
--------------------------
The Paint:
Behr "Silver Screen" (770E-2) mix using Ultra Pure White (UPW) flat latex

Generic Formula of Behr SS:
1 gallon flat white latex base
20/48ths of Lamp Black
20/48ths of Raw Umber (a dark, murky yellow/orange-based pigment)
2/48ths of Red

NOTE: Wait for it to cure enough (about 2 weeks) before judging it. If you do it while it's still wet, you may see hot-spotting. It's like brewing a good lager beer, let it mellow a while, then decide.
--------------------------
The Materials:
Foam Roller
Extension Pole
Paint mixing attachment for a hand power drill
--------------------------
Projector Results using Pure Behr SS paint, on varying surfaces
(gleaned from comments on this thread)
(1) Great, Love it
(2) Satisfied, OK
(3) Not fully satisfied, but sticking with it while I look for something better
(4) I'm trying something else now


Benq 6200 (1)(1)(2)
BenQ PE7700 (1)
BenQ 8700 (4)
Dell 2200mp (1)
Epson Home20 (1)
Epson PowerLite Home 10+ (4)
Epson S1+ (2)
Hitachi CP-X300 (1)
Infocus X1 (1)(1)(1)(2)(3)(4)
Infocus 4805 (1)(1)(1)(1)(1)(2)(3)
Mitsubishi HC2 (?)
NEC HT-1000 (2)
NEC MT1065 (3)
Optoma EP727 1080i DLP Projector (1)
Optoma H27 (1)
Optima H30 (1)
Optoma HD70 (1)
Panasonic PT-AE700U (1)(1)(1)(1)
Panasonic PT-L200u (4)
Panasonic PT-L300 (3)
Panasonic PT-L500U (1)(2)
Panasonic PT-L900 (1)(1)(1)
Sharp DT-400 (2)
Sharp PG A10x (3)
Sanyo Z1 (1)
Sanyo Z2 (1)(1)(1)(3)
Sanyo Z3 (1)(1)
Sanyo Z4 (1)
Sharp XR-1S (1)
Sharp XR-10X (1)
Sony HS-51 (1)(4)
Viewsonic PJ 551 (3)

--------------------------
My Theater:
Screen: 80"x45" Behr Silverscreen painted over GatorFoam (Ser # 0001)
Primary Viewing Distance: 11'
Projector: Panasonic PT-L500U LCD (via 7.5m DVI cable)

Home Theater PC (HTPC):
- AMD Athlon 2600 (overclocked)
- Asus A7N8x Deluxe Motherboard
- 1GB Corsair PC3200 RAM
- ATI AIW 9000pro (DVI)
- myHTPC Software (v24)
- TheaterTek Movie Player Software
- Two 120GB SATA Drives (internal - setup in a Raid 0 Array)
- Six 160GB SATA Drives (external - USB)

Receiver: Panasonic SA-XR25 5.1 (via SPDIF)
Speakers: Cambridge Soundworks MovieWorks 108 Speaker System

HDTV: Projected via component video cables from a Verizon FiOS Digital HDTV settop box

would this paint work on a blank wall?

Drywall???


Ralph

Originally posted by zapper
Drywall???


Ralph

Cumon guys......, it's a Latex paint, fer gudness sayk!

If it can go onto a peice of Parkland Plastic, it can go onto almost any surface. Just be sure the surface is flat, and keep the texture down to a minimum.

Bcotrez,

great little job of searching all those crazy color swatches.
I'll be looking at your discovery ASAP, maybe even try it at the shoot out

MM

bcortez,

what is the chip number? Is it Behr Premium?!

770E-2

BCortez

Joking, aside what is your opinion on what the picture looks like on the painted screen? Heck I should try it first and see what the picture looks like. Can't beat the price.

Thanks for the info.

By the way have you seen any projectors on regular screens and what are your thoughts when compared to The BEHR?? I am also buying the Panny 500.

Thanks

RPerez

I'll be away on business the next 3 days. However, I'll try to take some screen snaps this weekend and post sometime Monday. I'll take one with the plain white gator foam on one side and the painted side on the other. That should give some perspective of the difference and the removing of the hotspotting too.

RE: zapper - I previewed the Panny 500 at my dealer on a HCCV screen, and frankly, i really didn't that much of a major difference, but that's one mans un-scientific opinion...so take it as that.

RE: MissMan - Thanks. I've been on the LF thread for months now, but needed a quick, easy, down-and-dirty screen ASAP for guests arriving in May. Looking at the swatches, I saw this one that seemed to look close enough to Misty Evening to at least try on some GatorFoam. It HAD to be better than the crazy hotspotting and over-the-top brightness of the untreated white surface. It was definitely worth the cost of the paint and an afternoon of time.

All,
I rolled (and let it dry) laying flat on the floor since I have no means to do it vertically. I know it's not optimal, but heck, it worked out fine anyway.
It's an easy paint to roll, without any thinning required. Just under one quart did two coats on a 4'x8' sheet on only one side. Using it on the GatorFoam board, it rolled out nice and even (and I'm no pro painter by any stretch - I'm a software engineer by trade). But, as I went down to use it last night, I found that as it dried, it contracted a bit and bowed the foam board about 6 inches on each side (easy way to make a curved screen though). I now have to mount some framing on the back anyway (for the semi-permanent mount), so this should take care of the bowing problem too. I still have to mask the sides with black cloth, but for now, it really is a good temp screen until I can convince the wife we need a LF screen this summer :)

NOTE: I'll bet if I painted the back, it would counter the bowing of the front.

I also found SS to be interesting choice until I read on another thread about the use of Gliddens Folkstone which is a grey with a very slight red tint to it. I painted it onto my parkland and with only 1 coat, just to see the initial change and I havent touched it since. It's been that way for about 3 or 4 months now.
I currently have the ptl-300.

Hi

Pardon my stupidity but what is a parkland?

Ralph

I also like the look of that Glidden Folkstone. I might get a quart of each the Folkstone and the SilverScreen and see which I like better.

Tested the Behr "Silverscreen" last night. Painted a small area of leftover screen and held up to an unpainted part of the larger screen. Better contrast , no hotspotting and richer colors. Plan on painting the rest of the screen this weekend. Total cost of screen for me was $30

Can't beat that!!

NathanG27

Your total cost for the screen was $30, WOW that's nice. How did you constructed the screen, such as material, fabric and size of the screen?

Zapper

Pardon the newbie question, but are these "silver" paint screens intended only for the bright digital projectors? I'm planning on a CRT and I keep hearing a plain ole flat-white screen is best for those.

Gary

Originally posted by zapper
NathanG27

Your total cost for the screen was $30, WOW that's nice. How did you constructed the screen, such as material, fabric and size of the screen?

Zapper

White hardboard (not sure if thats what is called) comes in 4' X 8' sheets at home depot 8.00
Silverscreen paint at home depot 9.00
velcro to stick to wall from home depot 13.00

finished painting last night and have no complaints, have to apply one more coat with roller.

Like a said $30 fro a screen that looks great. Can't beat that!

Mississippi Man here,

The short, straight scoop.

Whilst toiling away in Canuck land, preparing for the official Light Fusion debut at the '04 Canuck PJ & Scr4een Shootout", I have been thinkin' uf ya'll.
l
Today I whipped up a 4' x 8' "Silverscreen" piece of 1/4" Hardboard. It will get "sizing up" honors right along with the Vutec Silverstar, the Stewart GreyHawk, the DaLite HC, the Stewart Silverhawk, the Carada HC, and of course, Light Fusion.

All of the above attempt to enhance contrast, with some actually purporting to do so along with increasing gain. Tomorrow will see claims separated from truths. The Silverscreen paint looks good on the board, so I expect it will get better than a passing grade. Pretty nifty if it does 'cuz $9-$11.00 of paint on a wall that does a great job always makes me tingle. That's where my original roots lie anywho.

The lighter shade of grey, and yet the lack of luster bodes well for the SilverScreen. There should not be the degree of attenuation of luminosity that other darker HC hues result in. And the screen I sprayed is as featureless and as smooth as it can possible be. (....considering I painted it outside, propped against a wall, with Canadian leaves and twigs blowing about!)

Anyway Troops, I hope my efforts does the Paint proud, and once again, credit goes to Bcortez for bringing it to my attention just in time to throw a wet blanket on some Heavy Hitters in the Screen Mfg genre.



But if it aces out Light Fusion, I'm never talkin' ta ya'll agin.:p

Stay tuned. Might post tomorrow night late, but more probably late Sunday after my return home.


PS....See how I commandered Mandarax's PC? Pretty nervy, eh?

Originally posted by mandarax
Mississippi Man here,

The short, straight scoop.

Whilst toiling away in Canuck land


Stay tuned. Might post tomorrow night late, but more probably late Sunday after my return home.


PS....See how I commandered Mandarax's PC? Pretty nervy, eh?

Nervy? Naw. Drinking all of Mandarax's beer...now that's nervy!

Hey Bruce, you still think MM and CMRA are one and the same? How do explain this?

Hey cmra i was teasing !!!! after you were making some silly off handed comments about me , but now who knows maybe you, mississippi, and mandarax are one and the same . :D

Bruce

ps good luck mississippi

Originally posted by bruce can
Hey cmra i was teasing !!!! after you were making some silly off handed comments about me , but know who knows maybe you, mississippi, and mandarax are one and the same . :D

Bruce

ps good luck mississippi

I have seen CMRA in person and I can verify that he has two arms, two legs, and walks upright.

Shedrock

Can't wait for the shootout.
Wish all this 'Behr' paint was available in Oz.

To answer the 'CRT' question, a silver screen usually = hotspotting, but if you curve your scrren (in a toroidal fashion) you can get rifd of the hotspot and colour shift

Well, I saw the Silverscreen at the Canuck Shootout and though it did not trump the Light Fusion, it was very, very impressive. I would certainly put it in the top half of the screens that were there ... in my eyes anyways. I have to say the Light Fusion was the best, I'd put the Screen Goo Light Digital Grey up there as well with the Silverscreen coming in behind.

Honestly, it was that good. Thank you Bcortez for taking the time and finding this gem. And thank you Mississippi Man for putting in your extra effort having it ready at the Shootout.

Wow ... $30!!!

Dokworm, I assume that was my CRT question you were answering?

CRTs are more prone to hotspotting with a silver screen than digitals?? I'm confused. The digitals are brighter. I thought the concern would lie more with the silver screen being greyer than a flat-white screen, and so not bright enough for a CRT.

So please explain in little teensy words: is a Behr Silverscreen coat on gatorboard (or whatever) a good screen for CRT? Why or why not? Would a flat-white screen be better?

Thanks!

Thanks Bcortez !

I tried that BEHR Silverscreen (770E-2) paint on my wall.

Great Picture <- Compared to the blackout cloth screen I was using.

Much better contrast and color depth (blacks).

I was about to order screen goo but i read this thread and ended up picking up some kilz primer and a quart of the Behr Silverscreen. I just got a BenQ PB6200 so i am looking forward to the results! I'll try to post some screenshots oce the sreen is done.


Dalton

I might try this tomorrow, but I need your help...If I buy a 4 X 8 piece of hardboard, what are the dimensions for a 16 X 9 screen so that I can have it cut at HD? Also, what is the name of the hardboard, what is it called? Your help is appreciated....

The 16:9 screen size would be 48"X85". It is simply called hardboard, and can be found in aisle with plywood, at Home Depot, anyway. It comes in 1/4" and 1/8" thicknesses.

bcortez,

What did you use for the base to mix the Silverscreen color into? I'm assuming some sort of flat white base, but your particular base information would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Omzig

Well...I took my Benq 6200...my white 4x8 hardboard...and split it up into 4 subscreens...put some SilverScreen, some Behr Metallic Silver (no. 743 silver, 31oz. plastic jars @ $20 a pop) and left 2 squares the unpainted....and at first...I was NOT impressed with the Metallic and was somewhat pleased with the added contrast the SilvScrn gave me....UNTIL....

I noticed that my viewing angle was about 15-20 off vertical...so I stood up with my projector (unmounted as of yet while painting room)...and BAM!

HOLY COW I could not believe the brightness of the Metallic Silver "decorative finish" ...like there was a LIGHT behind the damn screen....need to get a better roller (used 3/8", but it was foam).

Any one care to tell this computer freak untrained in the real world apparently how to "wet sand" this stuff? <G>

-= Rick

Great Picture <- Compared to the blackout cloth screen I was using.

Jasebrook, I am building a BO cloth screen and noticed you really liked the silverscreen over this? Any negatives? Is it all around better? I may have to paint the cloth now before trimming it out. Thanks!

Rick, aren't you concerned about hotspotting with that kind of reflective screen?

I've been wondering: Why do you guys use rollers (assuming you can't spray for whatever reason) to paint your screens? Wouldn't you get a smoother coat with one of those "pad" painters?

Well, I just finished painting on a 2 x 4 hardboard...I painted half of it with silverscreen and the other has ME on it....The ME looks a lot darker next to the silverscreen....Will test it in a couple of hours.....

If you look hard enough you'll find , in the plywood section , MDF sheets at 3/4" thick by 49" x 97" . Really ! Cost was $32.95 CDN . The down side , you'll need a few friends to help you carry it home , the stuff is very heavy . The extended size allows for a little bit larger diagonal size for 16:9 screens and if you have a bad paint day you can always flip it over and use the other side :D

Scott...................................

Well, after viewing with X1, they both seem about the same....the ME is actually lighter than the silverscreen....I noticed that the silverscreen has some red in it....I took a picture, but I don't know if you will notice a difference....I guess I need to let the silverscreen dry some more....they both look good....

Noel,

I have an X1 and just purchased a quart of silverscreen. I have been using a parkland screen with good results. In your opinion is the SS better than a flat white screen? I plan to try it when I get a chance but just interested in your opinion since you have been playing around with it and X1.

I saw the Silverscreen painted screen and the Light Fusion at the Canuck shootout but I'd say neither performed anywhere near as well as the Goo screens to my eyes.

I have a Dalite Video Spectra screen in my own theater as I need a retractable for my multi-purpose room. However if I was going to paint a screen I'd spring for the Goo.

I'm sure others have different opinions and I'm not trying to discourage people from giving the other paint treatments a whirl. You sure can't be the cost of the Behr Silverscreen! :D

Nelman,
It depends on if you want deeper blacks....After a few hours dry, the silverscreen looks darker to me that the ME...the ME has been on for a few weeks....Silverscreen seems to have a reddish tint to it....Maybe after it drys for a while it may lighten up, I know the ME was dark and now seems lighter....I will test it with KillBill tonight.....

Originally posted by Omzig
bcortez,

What did you use for the base to mix the Silverscreen color into? I'm assuming some sort of flat white base, but your particular base information would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Omzig

The base paint used was plain Behr UPW. Had the HD guy mix the quart of UPW according to the Silverscreen number. It took a week or so until I had to time to actually use the paint, but a quick mix with a powerdrill attachment was all that was needed. I used a 9" foam roller with an extension handle. Layed the gatorfoam flat, and rolled away. Waited an hour, rolled a 2nd coat. waited a few hours then tried it out.

PS: Not bad for a software engineer by trade. I have screenshots coming. I was away for business for 3 days, and the wife wants equal time :)
I'll post the screenies this week, promise.

Originally posted by Glenn Refling
However if I was going to paint a screen I'd spring for the Goo.

Goo is several hundred dollars though, and if you mess up, that's an expensive mess up.

Originally posted by Glenn Refling
However if I was going to paint a screen I'd spring for the Goo.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by gwlaw99
Goo is several hundred dollars though, and if you mess up, that's an expensive mess up.

Not only that, but those Goo screens had been curing for 1 year in Robert's shop. MMan's screens were FRESH and hadn't cured at all. Speaking from my experience with the LFS mirror, I know curing takes a week or two (maybe longer) and the picture can evolve noticeably as a result.

I'd be willing to bet that if the mirror screen (and maybe the Silverscreen screen) had been cured for a week (and the Red Oxide had been left out of the MMud) opinions might have been slightly different. But even so, it sounds like both screens held up pretty well in the Shootout.

I wonder how the SilverScreen would work on a first-surface acrylic mirror?

Here is the first of a few screenshots I took with my digital camera. It was in low-light, so they don't represent the image 100%, but your get the idea from them.


Camera: FujiFilm S602Z (on a tripod)


First up, that lovely Darla from "Findng Nemo"

"Why trust a shark, right!"

And what everyone seems to want, a little Satine.

And one more of Satine, in the throes of death

Originally posted by garyfritz
I wonder how the SilverScreen would work on a first-surface acrylic mirror?

This is DIY. Stop wondering. Follow bcortez's lead and start doing. Thanks, I needed that.

Originally posted by bcortez
Here is the first of a few screenshots I took with my digital camera. It was in low-light, so they don't represent the image 100%, but your get the idea from them.




Looking GOOD! But don't stop there. Impress us some more!
PS: Thanks for chosing images we are all familiar with.

My favorite "artistic" shot of Satine on the edge of death.

Nemo's first lesson...

Nemo's first impression of the dentist's tank...

I'll try to take some screenies this week with the plain white gatorfoam and blackout cloth atop the screen. This should give a side-by-side-by-side comparison of the progression of the image quality (since I started with blackout cloth).


Stay tuned.

NOTE: If anyone else has tried this paint, by all means, show us your fruits too... :)

Excellent screens bcortez. What PJ are you using?

As I've stated before, I was rather impressed by the Silverscreen at the Canuck Shootout that the Mississippi Man had whipped up. Unfortunatley I did not get to see it with a LCD unit, just DLP (the BQ 8700). I think an LCD pj would look great on that screen.

The start of this thread has all that info in my opening message. I also list my HTPC components that I used to build the unit.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by garyfritz
I wonder how the SilverScreen would work on a first-surface acrylic mirror?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Originally posted by CMRA
This is DIY. Stop wondering. Follow bcortez's lead and start doing. Thanks, I needed that.

Hey !!!! Me first! I'm sitting here at home waiting for my 4' x 8' First surface to arrive by noon, SO BACK OFF ! :mad: ;) :p

SilverScreen is a easy out solution. All the properties it brings to the table are exceeded by a wide margine by Light Fusion with a MMud Top Coat, and LF offers up advantages that no solitary wall paint ever could.

Recent criticisums of "pink" whites when Red Oxide is used in the MMud mix by a very few folks who portend to know about such things seem to be the only Fly in the Ointment. (..but only for DLPs) But that bug is easily swatted by merely ommiting the RO.

But it might be very doable to squirt SS (...deserves that abbreviation more than the "You know who" screen IMO ) onto a regular clear Plexi and paint the other side with an even thinner, MMud Mix, just like CMRA's oriignal Super Deluxe. Easier application of the SS that SM, plus the added "Image smoothing", might just up the ante once again. And a trial on a Standard Plexi mirror just might come quickly behing, just so as to compare 'em side to side.

OH MY, bCotez, your offer has me drooling. You are wise beyond even your SS recomendation! But it just might call for a personal visit if I wander into your general area. (always possible...) Until then, you will soon receive my address for immediate shipment of a wagon load, complete with the Horses! :D (..I know, I know....wrong Brewery...)

But let me tell you all, I feel the risk of showing SS at the CSII was well worth it, and it's a glad thing to offer up with bcortez another viable alternative that can be steadfastly reccomended to the "Gotta have it now, and it's gotta be Cheap, and it's gotta be easy, and it's gotta be GREAT!" crowd.

Originally posted by bcortez
I'll try to take some screenies this week with the plain white gatorfoam and blackout cloth atop the screen. This should give a side-by-side-by-side comparison of the progression of the image quality (since I started with blackout cloth).


Stay tuned.

NOTE: If anyone else has tried this paint, by all means, show us your fruits too... :)

Betcha didn't know DIY could be this much fun. You learn alot along the way too, don't you?

This is DIY. Stop wondering. Follow bcortez's lead and start doing. Thanks, I needed that.

You're welcome. :D And I am suitably chastised. But I **can't** try it myself. I don't even have my projector yet, fercryinoutloud!! Cut me a break! :)

Originally posted by MississippiMan
quote:
SilverScreen is a easy out solution. All the properties it brings to the table are exceeded by a wide margine by Light Fusion with a MMud Top Coat, and LF offers up advantages that no solitary wall paint ever could.



Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. This simple paint was my way of bridging the gap until I can make my own LF screen this summer. I figured, it's $10.00, why not? I even bought a quart of Kilz as a primer, but didn't use it. I figured, I'd try it alone first, if it needed a primer, I could always prime with the Kilz on the back-side, then splurge for another quart of Behr Silverscreen later.


But it might be very doable to squirt SS (...deserves that abbreviation more than the "You know who" screen IMO ) onto a regular clear Plexi and paint the other side with an even thinner, MMud Mix, just like CMRA's oriignal Super Deluxe. Easier application of the SS that SM, plus the added "Image smoothing", might just up the ante once again. And a trial on a Standard Plexi mirror just might come quickly behing, just so as to compare 'em side to side.


Like I said, I wanted a quick, easy, temporary solution until I can make my LF screen. And for those who try this, you may be satisfied with it and never need to "re-do" the effort. Hell, the 96"x48" gatorfoam board cost 3x the the paint and rollers, etc combined!


OH MY, bCortez, your offer has me drooling. You are wise beyond even your SS recomendation! But it just might call for a personal visit if I wander into your general area. (always possible...) Until then, you will soon receive my address for immediate shipment of a wagon load, complete with the Horses! :D (..I know, I know....wrong Brewery...)


Well MM, I have a "Summer Honey Wheat" that'll be ready to bottle next week. Following 3 weeks of conditioning, it'll be ready to drink. Sorry I can't offer any of my "Golden Lager", I just drank the last of it last week at the technical convention I was away attending. It went over quite well, even those "clydesdale-ers" liked it :) I also have a "New England Oktoberfest" in the works using maple sap as the base. But that brew wouldn't be ready until October anyway.


But let me tell you all, I feel the risk of showing SS at the CSII was well worth it, and it's a glad thing to offer up with bcortez another viable alternative that can be steadfastly reccomended to the "Gotta have it now, and it's gotta be Cheap, and it's gotta be easy, and it's gotta be GREAT!" crowd.

Thanks MM. Thanks for taking the time to put one together and show it off at the shootout (I wasn't expecting that at all, just offering my experiments up for peer review here). I certainly hope this puts the screenmaker "big guys" on the edge of their seats. They better look down from their towers and realize there's a revolution going on in their backyard...........now.

This is probably a stupid question but what kind of paint is it? Flat, Simi-gloss, or gloss?

I posted a message the other day about a cheap screen to use for a project we keep at our house (dell 2200mp), and I'm intrigued by what this thread has to offer!

So here's my question. My setup is purely temporary - set up/tear down. Currently, I borrow a screen during the week. Its on a tripod, and the screen rolls up and hooks to the top. its not that big, say 6ft high. I put the projector on a snack-tray (fold up table) and watch away.

I have a fairly large room, about 18ftx40ft. I can put a screen up to about 27ft from the projector. However, I don't have any walls I can use. Also - this room has 10ft ceilings.

So, could I piece together 2 (or more) pieces of some sort of "foam board", and simply hang it from hooks in the ceiling, and take it down when I'm done?

What type of board could I use (and paint with Behr Silverscreen), and what size should the screen be to get the most picture out of the projector?

Thanks!

-Frank

better send a sample bottle. Over in europe, the wheat beer I tried was not to my taste at all. Imaging me leaving a almost full glass behind?

Incredible.

Guys, dispite all the glowing initial reports, Rob states the SS came in at the bottom of the pile. Strange results that don't reflect the first comments posted by several very knowledble individuals, or the plaudits it received in person at the show. Something doesn't add up. From what I saw, and what others

I thought it was stated that an independent company was taking the results and doing the tabulation, but it seems it was really all just done by Rob. A PDF with the results listed as verified by the accountant and on his own letterhead would go much farther in convincing me and now quite a few others that there isn't some skewing of the results going on to satisfy another's agenda.

Hey that's probably not the case anyway, but when posted results fly in the face of popular comments, it does bring of a question of validity.

Anyway, I'm going to shy away from posting on this thread much, as I might attract some sharks that are on a feeding frenzy at present. None of you deserve that on this thread, and if they do show up, give 'em a harpoon in the gills for me.

If any here don't already know, there are plenty of people out there who resent any application that either cost too little, or threatens their views on what is acceptable or not.

Ignore them all, splash that paint, and get lost in some escapisim

This may be an obvious question, but what is the gain of this type of screen? I'm looking at a Sanyo Z2 with a Carada screen. Various things I've seen and heard incline me toward their 1.4 gain brilliant white screen vs. their .8 gain high contrast grey screen. This DIY project sounds very interesting. Just wondering which gain it is closer to, and I guess, if it could be modified.

BTW, the other DIY that sounds good is the Mississippi Mud screen (on a wall vs. a mirror) - any idea of its gain?

Thanks.

mmmm.... I wonder if there is any combinations this would work well with?

Any suggestions?
Maybe add a little white opal to it?

When the Behr drys is the finish flat, eggshell, gloss or otherwise.

I have no less than 6 different cans of silver spray paint on hand and getting ready to build a screen.

Has anyone tried "Krylon Dull Aluminum # 1403 on a screen. I really like the look of it when sprayed. Will be joining in on the screen paint game as my Benq 8700 arrived last night and the brown wall doesn't really do it justice.

I see several uses of what I would call gloss silver and gloss aluminum spray finishes. Don't the reflective surfaces of these make for hot spot problems?

Newbe questions I know. Thanks for being kind to a beginner. I hope to bring some of my background painting autos many years ago to this effort.

Best,

I bought a quart of this last night and will give it a try tonight. From the looks of it, it's going to be on the lighter side compared to my Valspar gray which will not be too great for blacks.

Much of the use of silver paints produces hot-spotting screens that are usually quickly dismissed. The silverscreen paint is actually a light gray/silverish paint. It might benefit from having a shiny silver paint as a base, with the silverscreen painted lightly on top, but I believe that has yet to be explored. Please feel free to experiment and let us know the results.

I was actually thinking of trying a Silver Metallic / Silver Screen mix..not layered...but mixed in same can...

thoughts?

Someone mentioned about how does Behr SS compares with UPW.

Did anyone compare?

I know UPW wont give as deep blacks but the colors are punchier. My experience with Tears of Joy concluded that it darken the punch too much. On the other hand, the X1 has a blue push. So recently I upped my red contrast to 65. Since SS has some red tint in it, do you think I'm close to the contrast of colors of what you have with the SS and not have to repaint?

I think anybody who wants to experiment with this paint should try it first as is, on a applicable surface, and then judge accordingly before altering the scenario.

Often times, enthusiasum and "what if" combines to actually deter some from what should be an easy choice.

Please note:

MM sez it was not only well received at the SO, it got some "Its Amazing" type plaudits. This from people committed enough to travel so as to make serious judgements, not speculative assumptions.

More than a few have also posted such accolades, so don't let the standing it received deter you. Considering everything, nothing is certain here except the unforseen.

Having said that, extrapolation of know data suggests that:

1. SS would be an excellent Base coat for a SM/MM variation
2. SM might be likewise vice versa but without MM
3. SM cut equally with SS might be the next big thing easily stumbled upon.
(...on your Mark, get set............*)
4. It will do more than well enough for a temporary screen with contrast values high enough for the critical "Cheap" PJ owner's equipment, and reflective enough not to dampen the output of a below 800 lumen PJ.
Much.

but of course, if any of ya'all wanna risk ahole Tin smackers ur sew an do crazy, unspeakable things.............................,

Call me and I'll jurn ya.

rick-
It can't hurt to try. Limit the amount of SM you add to the paint, though, or rolling will quickly become messy. I learned this over a few weeks of experimenting with SM in mixes. Try to limit it to about 35% max and you should be fine. It might take much less than that to give a noticeable improvement - or maybe it will muck it up. Make small batches and keep us informed of the results.

Scoob,

"I know, Why trust a Shark?"

:D

Everyone,

As I've said in the past (and recently in another thread), this is DIY (Do It Yourself). Sometimes you can easily get bogged down in the asking of the questions. Take the time to just try it....who cares if you succeed? Your perceived failure may actually become a leap forward. The main thing to understand is just take the chance. What's to lose? We all learn more from our failures than our successes anyway, right?

Remember, the Y in DIY is "Yourself".

Originally posted by bcortez
Everyone,

As I've said in the past (and recently in another thread), this is DIY (Do It Yourself). Sometimes you can easily get bogged down in the asking of the questions. Take the time to just try it....who cares if you succeed? Your perceived failure may actually become a leap forward. The main thing to understand is just take the chance. What's to lose? We all learn more from our failures than our successes anyway, right?

Remember, the Y in DIY is "Yourself".

Thanks, bcortez. We need more doers like you!
BTW, still looking forward to those next screen shots. CMRA

Me too. Unfortunately (or fortunately), it has been a crazy work week for me. And, I have to go away again this weekend. I hope everyone can wait until next week for the comparison screenies.

Sorry folks, duty calls... :)

Originally posted by bcortez
Everyone,

As I've said in the past (and recently in another thread), this is DIY (Do It Yourself). Sometimes you can easily get bogged down in the asking of the questions. Take the time to just try it....who cares if you succeed? Your perceived failure may actually become a leap forward. The main thing to understand is just take the chance. What's to lose? We all learn more from our failures than our successes anyway, right?

Remember, the Y in DIY is "Yourself".

OK! I got the paint. I got the rollers. I got my buddies PJ on loan for a week. And I got a flat wall.

Cross your fingers...

:)

I say good for you. When you finish, let us know how it went....good or bad.

And another joins the ranks as a doer, feel better CMRA ? ;)

I tried this Silverscreen paint last night with poor results. Too light of a gray color in which the black level suffers too much, at least compared to my Valspar plank gray. There was a gain in brightness but compared to the loss in black level this color is not an option.

In this pick below you can see my test panel (mixed with upw, pearl, silver m and deep base) up against my Valspar gray screen. The Silverscreen paint color is almost identical to my test panel.

http://home.earthlink.net/~peregrinefalcon/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/screen.jpg

Ron,

Your image does not show the Silverscreen test panel, does it? You said it wasn't to your liking (that's fine, to each his own), but then described another mix and showed two different panels. Please show all three in the shot....for comparison sake. Also, a comparison of actual projected images on each surface (along with your pj and system specs) can give us a better idea of why your blacks have suffered. It may be the use of a different PJ (LCD or CRT), connection type (component, vga, dvi), and/or source (DVD player, HTPC, VCR, etc...) . All these variables make up the final experience.

Please help us understand your findings. I wouldn't want your work to go for naught.

Thanks.

Originally posted by jj22
When the Behr drys is the finish flat, eggshell, gloss or otherwise.


Sorry for taking so long to answer. The Silverscreen paint is just Behr UPW (Flat white enamel) mixed according to the Behr color number.

If the Silverscreen is so light, it might be a better match for CRTs, no?

That pic does not show the Silverscreen. I used that existing test panel shown in the pick and painted over 1/2 of it with the Silverscreen. This weekend I'll take a pic with the three screen colors and post it in this thread. The mix I listed above was given to me in a PM. I believe it was that SM/MM mix, but I'm not 100% sure.

Specs are:
100% light controled black room
Panasonic 200u LCD
JVC progressive player
Component connection
Calibrated via AVIA

I may take more screen shots but to be honest, they do not represent the actual image seen so they really are of no value. You can see some I took a while back with my current setup on the Valspar screen. Just visit my website via the link below. If I take some, I'll post them here as well.

Ron-P, Did you recalibrate your projector to the Silverscreen? With as much of a difference in the two screens I can deffinately see how the SS could look washed out with your current settings. It's possible that recalibrating the projector to the SS could bring back some of those lost blacks while maintaining a brighter overall picture. Just a thought.

I have got a screen from my Sports PUB Bar. Due to the smoking enviroment, the screen has changed its color from being white to off yellow( yellowish). I have tried to clean it with out any luck. Have tried all kind of cleaning material to make it white and clean.

I like the suggestion from bcortez by painting with Behr silverscreen. Before I take this endevour, I would like your opinion for paining my screen with silverscreen. Would this work for me as this is on a screen material and not on wood? or do you have any suggestions. Thank you

Parmar

Ron,

Thanks for the update. Keep in mind that I painted over a glossy white surface (white Gatorfoam), whereas you painted over a darker gray surface. Now I don't know if that would make a difference, but considering I used only two thin coats, it's quite possible it does (given the LF experiments and all the multilayering tests being tried here). For me, it seems (DISCLAIMER: This is just a supposition on my part and not backed by any scientific experimentation - I've been here too long I guess) the underlying white sub-surface could be reflecting back the whites, while the gray top surface is absorbing the blacks. My whites seem white, and my blacks are darker than a plain white surface in my eyes (left eye 20/25, right eye 20/10)

How many coats did you do?

Did you roll it or spray it?


CRMA or MM: Any thoughts on my hypothesis above? It seems plausible to me.

MM: What was the under surface color of the Silverscreen sample you brought to the Canuck Shootout?

Originally posted by parmar
I have got a screen from my Sports PUB Bar. Due to the smoking enviroment, the screen has changed its color from being white to off yellow( yellowish). I have tried to clean it with out any luck. Have tried all kind of cleaning material to make it white and clean.

I like the suggestion from bcortez by painting with Behr silverscreen. Before I take this endevour, I would like your opinion for paining my screen with silverscreen. Would this work for me as this is on a screen material and not on wood? or do you have any suggestions. Thank you

Parmar

Parmar,

If you've cleaned the surface well (and it sounds like you have), then it should be fine to try. Not sure about fabric, never tried it myself. Spraying may be best, but then, I'm only a Software Engineer by trade and not a painter. I do have one suggestion, try it....what have you got to lose. Afterall, you can always paint over it again...if needed. Experiment away, especially if you got it for free.

:)

Yes, each and every time I test I re-calibrate with AVIA.

My whites seem white, and my blacks are darker than a plain white surface in my eyes

How many coats did you do?

Did you roll it or spray it?

I will say, the Silverscreen is better then white, that goes without saying. But it's just not enough for me. I much prefer the deeper / darker blacks over super vibrante colors or whites. There is a trade off, and no matter what color screen or how dark you go, it will have to be a trade off that you can live with. No screen color will give you super vibrant colors and whites along with deep / dark blacks, (with a digital PJ) at least from what I have seen so far.

I used a roller and applied two coats.

MississippiMan..

You make some serious allegations. My company hosts this event and invests several thousand dollars in it therefore you call into question its integrity and credibility with these allegations, and false statements.

You make the following statements.

*************************************************
Incredible.

Guys, dispite all the glowing initial reports, Rob states the SS came in at the bottom of the pile. Strange results that don't reflect the first comments posted by several very knowledble individuals, or the plaudits it received in person at the show. Something doesn't add up. From what I saw, and what others

I thought it was stated that an independent company was taking the results and doing the tabulation, but it seems it was really all just done by Rob. A PDF with the results listed as verified by the accountant and on his own letterhead would go much farther in convincing me and now quite a few others that there isn't some skewing of the results going on to satisfy another's agenda.

Hey that's probably not the case anyway, but when posted results fly in the face of popular comments, it does bring of a question of validity.
*****************************************************

These are very serious accusations.

First lets deal with your claim.. starting with..
**************************************
Strange results that don't reflect the first comments posted by several very knowledble individuals,
*********************************************
Where are these posts? other than yours of course. that give you the right to make such a statement.
*********************************************

You suggest that I am unreliable... or not trust worthy. Please advise!!.. this is a public forum

************************************************

You suggest that the results are not adequate without the an audit with an accounting firm.. Please advise!!

**************************************************

Since you state that I did the tabulation and results that I am capable or would be inclined to skew the results.. and therefore put my companies integrity and honour at risk ... Please advise!!
**********************************************

Where are these posts that fly in the face of popular comments that bring question to the validity?... Please advise!!!

***********************************************

Maurice .. these are very serious slanderous, allegations, and attempt to disparage my character and integrity... the character and integrity of my company that financed this event. I think now since this has been viewed by several people in an open forum and that your company as it turns out was representing what you do for financial gain, as written to me post the event I can expect an explanation of these theories and promotions of my character as well as my companies character in such a disparaging way.

In any event, many people have read these allegations by you so ..Please advise.

Robert...

Why don't the people who just wanna bitzatch go to the "Go Here for Whiney Bizatches Forum" and let the rest of us talk about whatever the thread's topic is please?

Just my opinion....

ps

this only refers to the uncalledfor rant directly above mine =)

-= Rick

The rant is under the english language I know ..contained within the statement I copied ... I just want some answers in response to the "rant"... I think given what is being said about my business and me personally I deserve this explanation since it is said from another person who is running a business and selling these products on the forum.. An inquiry is a request for information ... there is a great difference and thankyou for pointing these out because most people would be confused that were versed in the English language had you not pointed.

In the interest of those that might be wondering as do I ..

MM statement as a fact to support his "rant"

************************************************
Strange results that don't reflect the first comments posted by several very knowledble individuals
************************************************

Where are these posted comments by several individuals? Please advise.. (inquiry) a request for information

**********************************************

rant... a series of bombastic declamatory statements..
inquiry ... a request for information..

******************************************

Forum

...desired by most.. a place for requesting and receiving information..


Not desired ..a place for making bombastic declamatory false statements
............................................................ .........................

I think I am ok on this one .. Please do advise...

******************************************

MississippiMan..

3. SM cut equally with SS might be the next big thing easily stumbled upon.
(...on your Mark, get set............*)

I'll be game for this.

But.. do you mean as a base coat or as an all-in-one solution?
I've read on previous posts that SM+ME resulted in a poor screen so that's the only thing holding me back, as the SM+SS might result with same downfalls.

Originally posted by mandarax
MississippiMan..

You make some serious allegations. My company hosts this event and invests several thousand dollars in it therefore you call into question its integrity and credibility with these allegations, and false statements.

You make the following statements.

*************************************************
Incredible.

Guys, despite all the glowing initial reports, Rob states the SS came in at the bottom of the pile. Strange results that don't reflect the first comments posted by several very knowledgeable individuals, or the plaudits it received in person at the show. Something doesn't add up. From what I saw, and what others

I thought it was stated that an independent company was taking the results and doing the tabulation, but it seems it was really all just done by Rob. A PDF with the results listed as verified by the accountant and on his own letterhead would go much farther in convincing me and now quite a few others that there isn't some skewing of the results going on to satisfy another's agenda.

Hey that's probably not the case anyway, but when posted results fly in the face of popular comments, it does bring of a question of validity.
*****************************************************

These are very serious accusations.

First lets deal with your claim.. starting with..
**************************************
Strange results that don't reflect the first comments posted by several very knowledgeable individuals,
*********************************************
Where are these posts? other than yours of course. that give you the right to make such a statement.
*********************************************

<<<<Some were on the original Shoot Out Thread, which you have had closed. A few exist from attendees on this thread as well. Also, my comments had root in many likewise comments at the Shoot Out it'self. And to make a point, no where have I complained about the results that involved LF. Not one mention of LF has been made, excepting by yourself and others who support your position. Instead, I called into question results posted about a simple paint solution that experienced quite a lot of favorable reactions live, but then placed dead last when results were published. At no time did I make or plead a case about LF. The SilverScreen solution is completely and entirely a dirt cheap DIY solution that was offered up by me for all to experience, and in as much offers no possibility that I would ever benefit from or expect financial gain from anybody excepting those of my own private clients, who have no knowledge of, or express wish to ever frequent this forum. And said comments were posted on this, a very obscure thread, and not on your own SO thread. It's all pretty much a case of your grandstanding to press a point. >>>>>>>>

You suggest that I am unreliable... or not trust worthy. Please advise!!.. this is a public forum

<<<<< As a Business who deals in such products as were shown, and by holding such an event, and then posting results publicly for comment, without complying with the previously stated conditions that you yourself said, you yourself must accept that others will have the right to question the results. They have that right regardless and without fear of being intimidated, such as your words have been attempting toward me. Nothing in my comments went so far as to directly accuse you or your Company of deceit or misrepresentation. A viewpoint questioning the process and results is not slanderous, and your reaction thus far has been wholly disproportionate to the circumstances. Other factors are in play that fuel your ire, but they are of a personal nature and do not belong on the Forum.

************************************************

You suggest that the results are not adequate without the an audit with an accounting firm.. Please advise!!

**************************************************
<<< On the Original SO Thread, you plainly stated that such a Firm was in fact going to do the tabulation of results. Since then, you have related to me that it was Sharon, your wife, who did the work, in order to speed the posting of the results. This was not mentioned at the time of that posting, and had it been, I most certainly would have not ventured to "question" the results, which is my right to do so, publicly or otherwise. Insomuch as I now know what occurred, and having met Sharon, I would not ever be inclined to disparage her or her actions in any way. For whatever slight that my comments might have unknowingly and unintentionally directed at her, I am indeed truly sorry and apologize to her forthwith. >>>>.

Since you state that I did the tabulation and results that I am capable or would be inclined to skew the results.. and therefore put my companies integrity and honour at risk ... Please advise!!
**********************************************


<<<You seem to think that your exempt from anyone ever questioning you or your actions. When did you become so perfect, or incapable of error, misjudgment, misdeeds, or any other human fault that someone can not call into question your actions? Look again, no direct accusation was made. All the rhetoric and discourse your indulging in is simply grandstanding to hammer your own viewpoint and aggravation home. That too is your right, but you have no more of a right to do so than I or anybody else's to state such viewpoints. .

In light of your revelation of Sharon's involvement, and because of several other issues, I'll state publicly here that both of us have made mistakes, and both of us need to let the issue drop. Futher expounding on this matter publicly only serves to keep issues on the table that are best shelved, and to call attention where no attention is desired. I'll go so far as to state publicly that prior to the SO, I would not have thought it possible that in any way would anything involving the SO be liable to be called onto question. But if an apparent discrepancy in the posted results appears, then by denying anyone the right to respond with a question, you set yourself up as infallible, and totally without the need for review or comment.

You have requested some other conditions privately to which I will respond to privately as well. >>>>>>

Maurice .. these are very serious slanderous, allegations, and attempt to disparage my character and integrity... the character and integrity of my company that financed this event. I think now since this has been viewed by several people in an open forum and that your company as it turns out was representing what you do for financial gain, as written to me post the event I can expect an explanation of these theories and promotions of my character as well as my companies character in such a disparaging way.

<<<< Well I will respond to this, for the sake of clarity. If no other company that provided materials or equipment will publicly state, as many of you have requested that I do, that the express intent of their involvement was NOT commercially oriented in any way, or that they did not in fact hope for some increase in business should their products be reviewed favorably, then I would be greatly surprised. I came up there with you already knowing that I install A/V systems, and with them PJ / DIY Screens. You knew before hand that i wanted to exhibit a controversial approach to Projection Screens, one that obviously is the anti thesis of those that are manufactured. Prior to my arrival we discussed what a good showing might mean for the LF concept and you yourself were offered pre event the opportunity to utilize the LF screen concept for your own Company's benefit. It's all in writing and irrefutable.. How you can infer that somehow, I had decided to take a vow of poverty, forswear any future potential of using my concept for financial profit, and not look forward to some validation of my work by my Peers is beyond my reasoning. That is, unless I use you point of view. >>>>>

In any event, many people have read these allegations by you so ..Please advise.

Robert...

Your use of the word "allegations" is by your own determination. I call it "questioning the results due to circumstances differing from previously stated intent and know variables from the posted results." If your results were to be taken as pure Gospel, and without the concern of ever being considered unquestionable, then you are of a very special breed of individual. The like of which has not been seen on Earth for 2004 years.

You've made no claims to be of that ilk, so that puts you squarely in the midst of the rest of us.

And be advised, the above posted response was solicited publicly by you, and was not initiated by me in any manner. Do not suppose to turn my own response against me in any way. You have already posted private emails and/or PMs from me to others, publicly on the forum to bolster your case for a grievance, and those actions in and of themselves are serious breaches of confidentiality, by you, and the people who allowed it to happen.

I must now take leave travel to Indianapolis until Wednesday. On or about that date I will "privately" address some of the requests you have made to me, also "privately".

I have removed the offending post, so that future posters on this thread will not be "influenced" by it. Let these folks have thier thread.
Good Day.

Originally posted by DustinF
MississippiMan..

3. SM cut equally with SS might be the next big thing easily stumbled upon.
(...on your Mark, get set............*)

I'll be game for this.

But.. do you mean as a base coat or as an all-in-one solution?
I've read on previous posts that SM+ME resulted in a poor screen so that's the only thing holding me back, as the SM+SS might result with same downfalls.

It might..., it might. That's what experimentation is all about. would that the SM be as affordable as the SS, I'd tell you to go get it and go do it. I still say that, but not with much conviction.

My reasoning is that a Flat, yet silver mixture combined with SM to 'dial down' the reflectivity somewhat might just be the ticket for the self same PJs that benefited from ME. Higher Lumen PJs? Probably not.

Good luck in any event.

Be back Wedensday

Just got a can of SS and am ready to paint my screen but had a question. I would like to spray it on. Should the SS be thinned and if so how much?

RalphArch, I believe they call it Flotrol to thin the mix for better spraying. I am not sure the measurements used but do a search for it here in the screens forum and you should find a few posts about it.

Good luck, I am anxious to hear your results as I may be doing the same :)

As a final update, I tried taking a pic of the three screen colors but the SS and the SM/MM are so close that my camera had a very difficult time refelcting the difference so I'm not going to bother posting it.

You can see my Valspar against the SM/MM at the link I posted back on page 4. The SS is identical to that lighter colored test panel.

As for now and all my testing I have yet to find a better gray color then that of the Lowe's Valspar Plank so I'll stick with it.

from what I have been reading (and I'm a newbe, so no flaming please =) )

the "color" of the screen is of little consequence when it comes to how bright the screen will be...I have a DLP (PB6200) and am more concerned that I have a screen as close to the brightness of a regular TV as possible...and of course as clear...I have just put my second coat of SM to a piece of hardboard, and am still not sure if I should go with SilverScreen, or MMud for the top...or OPTICOAT...which REALLY look like a serious contender....my DIY experience is fun, but I really just want the best screen I can make out of all this mess =)

soooooooo many options (MM, SuperD+, Opticoat, SS, etc...holy cow man...is there really any one that has a solution that is really bright and clear for DLP's out there?...in the DIY world? <G>

thanks guys...have loved all the threads...you guys really have done some serious work, and I just wanna know which way to turn =\

-= Rick

Anyone else try out the SS and prefer it over BO cloth or matte white?

I'm trying the Silverscreen paint as we speak. The painting should be done by tommorrow night, and hopefully some tests will be done Thursday eve.

I painted an on wall screen (60"x80") last weekend with the SS for my Benq PB6200 and for the money i am extremely pleased with it. I was about to buy a pull down screen but after seeing one at a friends house i am glad i opted to paint one on the wall. With trim the total cost was about $30. I will try to post some screenshots later this week.:)

What finnish did you use ? ex. flat,satin,semi-gloss?

Thank you

Use the flat. Satin if you feel lucky.

I'm using flat

If you are painting your blackout cloth, then would you choose the satin base rather than flat? I may choose this option this weekend.

Try each on sample pieces of blackout cloth. What can it hurt? Then if you like one over the other, you can make a full size version.

"Behr"with me this is my first ever screenshot. I made an on the wall screen with the Behr SS paint.

Another one from Starship Troopers. BTW I am using a Benq PB6200 DLP PJ with an HTPC as the DVD Player.

Originally posted by Dalton
"Behr"with me this is my first ever screenshot. I made an on the wall screen with the Behr SS paint.

Very nice. Welcome to the ranks!

Your shots show how excellent results can be using a standard mix like SS.

However, there is a lot of "Red" in that movie and I see none in those shots. (gore, that is. :p ) Take a few of the space ships in space, showing black levels. Use a Tripod or something very steady.

...and keep up the encouraging work!

Thanks MississippiMan,
Yes i need a tripod. I will try to get some more shots with red in it this time.:D Very pleased with my $30 screen.:)

Dalton, (...and others...)

Two additional tips that will work to tremendously improve your chances of getting a shot that is exposed exactly as it should be for your content.

1. Use Exposure Bracketing. If your Digicam has a Manual setting, the menu that pops up should have an Icon that shows mulitble frames with varible shades. That's EP. Some rigs give your 5 shots, others 3, but esentially, each one is a different exposure, shutter setting. Usually, 1 is significantly better, and this proceedure helps out most when your shooting either a very dark scene, or a very bright one. But be sure to include one shot taken on Auto, for obviously, that might also be very good. Just one other choice.

Also...........
Average Recommended Digicam settings for Screen Shots:

Contrast ; normal
Sharpness; normal (if Res. is 3.0 mp or more )
Color; Standard if low light, or Vivid for bright scenes.
Auto Grey Scale
Auto W/B

2. Use your timer. Wether you use a Tripod, Table, Chair arm, or lean the Camera against a Door Jamb, just be sure to set the Timer for enough time for you to press the shutter button and get away or stop all movement. At the exposure settings and shutter speeds that are required for a great shot, ANY vibration, let alone movement will result in anything from a slight blurriness to a waisted effort. With EP, you must expect the Camera to be processing pictures for as long as 10-15 seconds before the Camera can be touched. Otherwise....., it's a "Blur-zzard."

Now, lets see some real efforts to show how good a $25.00 screen can be!

Originally posted by Jcam9
Anyone else try out the SS and prefer it over BO cloth or matte white?

I just finished my first coat of SS over Klitz primer on a whiteboard and have a number of split screen shots with the SS on the bottom and my matte white (Parkland like) screen on the top half. Will try to post a series here. Proj is Sharp PG A10x lcd

matte white top silver screen bottom



My opinion is that for me the SS is slightly preferable to the matte white overall - but that the matte white is better in some situations such as outdoor bright sports scenes and the SS is better in darker scenes where its better blacks enhance the viewing

matte white top silver screen bottom

matte white top silver screen bottom

matte white top silver screen bottom

Originally posted by RalphArch
matte white top silver screen bottom

Thanks for the nice comparison pics. The matte white looks washed a bit in the "green field" pic.

Originally posted by 1Time
Thanks for the nice comparison pics. The matte white looks washed a bit in the "green field" pic.

Yes - but I'm not so sure its washed out as opposed to thats where you see the enhanced blacks. (The upper part of that picture was going towards less contrast anyway) In reality there are quite a few situations where the matte white looks better to me than the Silver Screen - for example the vibrant colors in the yellow flower - I just picked some that were going either way above. I do believe in my situation Silver Screen is somewhat better on average.

True. Would you agree in a light controlled room the white matte could seem better on average? And then in a room where light is not as controlled the SS would seem better on average? It sounds like it is a close comparison and may come down to personal preference. For example, I prefer whiter whites than blacker blacks. What kind of light control are you using?

Ralph,

Is your PJ ceiling or floor mounted? It just seems strange that the bright scenes would be darker on a silverscreen.

snowmoon
The PJ is ceiling mounted. Everything is definitely darker on my silverscreen. It looks like grayish paint to me - so I can't see where it would be brighter than the matte white in any case. But I only have one coat and perhaps that is a factor? Since I am just playing around with this screen anyway (its a $10 whiteboard) I was thinking of putting something like white opal pearlensce on in a light coat on top and seeing what that looks like before doing anything final on my big screen.

Originally posted by 1Time
True. Would you agree in a light controlled room the white matte could seem better on average? And then in a room where light is not as controlled the SS would seem better on average? It sounds like it is a close comparison and may come down to personal preference. For example, I prefer whiter whites than blacker blacks. What kind of light control are you using?

I was using nighttime with all the lights out last night - so it was great light control. Additionally I have a ceiling mount and do get some light spill off the ceiling(screen is butted against ceiling but the screen shots were in a 16*9 window of the 4*3 screen) so that may have tended to be a detriment to the matte white in the upper half

Today to look at the effect I opened up the drapes and watched in a less controlled environment. The enhancement of the darker SS screen was more obvious in almost all scenes when watching in the daytime.

Its true that the SS mutes the brightness but the extra darkness is really an overall enhancement w/o light control - although I will admit there are certainly scenes where the whites are obviously worse (just watched a short bit of killer whales on PBS-HD this am)

So I would say in total light control the edge would shift towards the matte white; and thats what I did have in the screen shots above (total light control and not a clear winner- but still a preference for the SS). I may keep both for a while and take my time deciding. If I get a chance I will post some less light controlled split screens

HI.

Could you turn your screen so the line is vertical? That way we could compare sky and sky, grass and grass, ect..

Good work on the screen shots!

Steve

Originally posted by RalphArch
snowmoon
The PJ is ceiling mounted. Everything is definitely darker on my silverscreen. It looks like grayish paint to me. I was thinking of putting something like white opal pearlensce on in a light coat on top and seeing what that looks like before doing anything final on my big screen.

Whoa! Don't go there! Pearl and SS or any Grey works against each other to dull the image. It's been there, done that, and hooted off the Planet. In MMud, WOP is a deluted ingredient, utilized to help create a greater degree of translucency than a pure white paint offers. Quarts of WOP, Deep or Accent Base, and Ultra Pure White combined create a mix far less translucent than WOP alone. With WOP alone, the resulting "film" over the base coat acts much like diffuser, but one that has gone too far, unfortunately. It's like looking thru cheap plastic Food Wrap. Everything is muted and/or blurred as a result. Dead End City.

But..............., if you were of a mind to experiment anyway, spend the same amount and mix up a 50:50 mix of Behr Silver Metallic and the SS for your next coat. What you want to achieve it as much reflectivity as possible without creating a hot spot or sparklies. If it seems to go in the right direction, next time, go 2/3rd to a 3rd.

But keep in mind RalphArch, and everyone else, any Retro-reflective screen depends on correct projector position as much as anything else. If a PJ has a large offset, or the image is weakened by a off center lens, or with some PJs, even the difference between a Ceiling or Table mount can drastically affect the amount of brightness possibly available. Think in terms of aligning a glass mirror to any strong light source, There's the "BRIGHT spot", glaringly bright.

Now imagine a surface with many thousands of tiny reflective surfaces. Hit 'em at the right angle (...provided they're pretty much all on the same plane....) and your reflectivity coefficient will jump dramatically. If you take it too far, it's better to mute the effect with a pigment that is more passive, but reflects light accurately. Like White. But then, you have the issue of getting the right amount of white over the more highly reflective surface, to the point where you still gain from the top, but not at the expense of the contrast the bottom layer afforded

Hey, one of my previous best DYI screen applications is a pure Silver Metallic underlay (3 coats !) and (3) Top Coats of translucent MMud. A pretty labor intensive process, but it's main bent is to get all the brightness and color correctness that the white top coat can provide, but also gain deeper contrast from the reaction of the Silver Metallic layer beneath.

If mixing a $19.95 a quart SM Faux paint with a $10.00 quart of paint, and putting it onto any applicable surface that cost under $20.00 will even "possibly" create a great, cheap version of a Silver Star, then you gotta go for it.

But do not go with WO Pearlesence alone as a top coat. No sir.

Originally posted by MississippiMan
But do not go with WO Pearlesence alone as a top coat. No sir.

I too have tried one and two layers of WOP as a topcoat. It will produce a sheen and undeniable warm/hot spotting. Mixed into solution is the only favorable way to use it. MM's right on the money.

Steve - can't turn the screen sideways due to its size and the furniture in front of screen. It actually is being supported by the two beds under my flat white screen


MississippiMan and CMRA -

Thanks for the heads up on WOP - based on comments bought some FAUX Pearlescent Sheer Metallic instead and will mix it with some SS (Only paint I currently have) for a second coat - will try a 50/50 mix as starting point.

MMan and CMRA, you're the paint gurus. Maybe you can make some suggestions for something I'm trying to solve:

I'm building a curved screen for my CRT. Talking to other people who have made curved screens, it sounds like you want a highly reflective surface. Hotspotting isn't really a concern because of the curved surface. Rustoleum Silver is reported to work really well.

But since I have a CRT, I don't want a grayish screen, and I'm thinking the silver paint would cause some graying of the colors. I wondered if there's some kind of translucent white paint that I could layer over the Rustoleum to give a white surface but maintain most of the reflectivity of the silver? There will undoubtedly be some scattering of the light by the white surface, and that may be unacceptable -- since the screen is curved, scattered light will reflect onto other parts of the screen and wash out your image. Ideally what I want is a white mirror. :)

I'll try the silver first, by itself. But if it seems too gray, I wanted to understand my options.

Gary

Try this.

Get a 4' x 8' piece of 1/8" Plexiglas Mirror.
Get a 4' x 8' piece of 1/4" Masonite hardboard
Glue the mirror to the hardboard.
Cut 11" off the end off the assembly with a 140 tooth Circular saw blade (a 16:9 ratio)
Take 2 - 2" x 4" s and glue the first 3" to each side of center of the Hardboard at the top & bottom to the 2" x 4" s
Take a 2" x 3" on edge and insert at each end between the 2" x 4" and the hardboard

Presto. One curved screen ready to accept standard MMud.
<<< 1 Qt. Behr Ultra Pure White >>>
<<< 1 Qt. Behr Accent or Deep Base >>>
<<< 1 Qt. Behr Pearlesence >>>
<<< 8 Oz. Distilled water - Power mixed - Spray or Roll >>

Apply at least 3 even "Light" coats, then shoot an image containing letters and numbers to ascertain if a shap focus it obtainable.

Of course you can do this with just the hardboard and paint it with MMud also, but you'd pass up any chance for gain from the "Silver Effect" the mirror offers standard Light Fusion.

I'm about to make one of these myself out of what remains of a First surface mirror so painted. Might be done by Tuesday.

Might be.

Get on your mark....................*

I'll be eager to hear what you think of it! You gonna curve it?

You say spray or roll. The guy who used the Rustoleum Silver on his curved screen said it was critical to get a smooth coat with such a high-gain surface, and he couldn't get it smooth enough with spraying or rolling. He ended up making "the world's biggest paintbrush" with a long strip of foam stapled to a board. Load up the foam with paint and you can paint the whole screen in a single pass. I have a lot more confidence I can do a good job with that than I could with a roller or sprayer (which I don't own).

Gary

Originally posted by garyfritz
I'll be eager to hear what you think of it! You gonna curve it?

You say spray or roll. The guy who used the Rustoleum Silver on his curved screen said it was critical to get a smooth coat with such a high-gain surface, and he couldn't get it smooth enough with spraying or rolling. He ended up making "the world's biggest paintbrush" with a long strip of foam stapled to a board. Load up the foam with paint and you can paint the whole screen in a single pass. I have a lot more confidence I can do a good job with that than I could with a roller or sprayer (which I don't own).

Gary

Curve it? I thought I said that? :p

4' Foam Brush 'eh?

Bounds iffy at best . First you have to get the right type of foam. Then you have to load the right amount of paint on that Foam. Then you have to apply equal pressure over a large area and across a 7' + path.

One Pass? Be sure to Videotape that. And you know, a second pass doesn't count, now!

The overall suggestion actually smacks of someones idea to AVOID using a spray gun apparatus. To say that you cannot get a good finish with a Spray Gun is a nonsensical statement. To say, "I though of a good alternative to spending a lot of money." seems more on the mark.

Whatever else can be said, PRACTICE extensively before trying the real thing. The experience will either serve to train you well, or dismiss the application altogether.

When last I applied Behr Silver Metallic to Drywall, I used a 18" roller. But much like your suggestion, I wound up getting my best looking coat when the big 'ol thing developed a flat spot and I started sliding the loaded roller across the wall. I considered it a blessing at the time....AND an aberration. One that I would NOT count on to achieve a good finish on purpose. Besides, that SM coat received 3 additional Top Coats of MMud over it, so a few imperfections wouldn't matter anyway.

No, from experience, I'd venture to say that ONLY by doing a good job of spraying multiple coats in cross patterns and following up in the end with a light "Dusting Coat" will you achieve a truly featureless surface. And featureless it MUST be if it is to be Silver or Aluminum because even the slightest defect will stand out like it has a neon boarder flashing around a center message saying, "Hey Lookee here! See me! I'm a <expletive deleted> up!"

Just be sure if that other Fellow's suggestion does sound do-able, that he gives you plenty of good advice and instruction. If it can be done, and he has in fact done it, then that alone will assure you of the best possible chance of duplicating his results.

So..., gud luc ta ya!

I experimented a little more based loosely on MississippiMan and CMRA comments - tried some FAUX Pearlescent Sheer Metallic (instead of WO - however I now realize the recommendation was for silver metallic, not shear) and tried a 50/50 mix as starting point.

Results as in attached photo showed not too much difference between plain Behr Silver Screen (small panel on right) and the SS Sheer metallic mix bottom - both enhanced my blacks over matte white top.

Since there didn't seem to be much difference I then tried a direct topcoat just to check it out - MM and CMRA were absolutely right - major hotspotting all over (why don't I listen)

I did go back and recover the screen another time - it was hard getting rid of the hotspotting. I tried spraying from a distance to get some texture and it appears that my 60/40 mix (sheer metallic to SS) works ok and is enhancement in black levels for my situation - see attached and following screen shots with matte white top and 60/40 mix below

I may try one more time - next with the recommended silver metallic vs sheer metallic, before painting my big screen. I even have the new gravity HVLP spray gun to try to do it right.

Last one unless the new coating is a lot better
Matte white top - ss/sheer metallic mix bottom

(BTW - I received recommendations to thin with flowtrol and also to use straight from can - I did just use the paint without thinning; although I did thin the primer a little)

Originally posted by MississippiMan
Whoa! Don't go there! Pearl and SS or any Grey works against each other to dull the image.

But..............., if you were of a mind to experiment anyway, spend the same amount and mix up a 50:50 mix of Behr Silver Metallic and the SS for your next coat. What you want to achieve it as much reflectivity as possible without creating a hot spot or sparklies. If it seems to go in the right direction, next time, go 2/3rd to a 3rd.

If mixing a $19.95 a quart SM Faux paint with a $10.00 quart of paint, and putting it onto any applicable surface that cost under $20.00 will even "possibly" create a great, cheap version of a Silver Star, then you gotta go for it.


Well I have tried it with a 60/40 mix of Behr Silver Metallic and Behr SS. The screen is a sheet of flat white plastic my son bought for making molds. The mix is a bit darker grey than SS alone as you can see in attachment. I am probably going to stop playing around, it wasn't a panacea - Bottom line is that the new mix; like SS alone, is better in some scenes and worse in others (compared with matte white) with my black challenged LCD projector - I can show screen shots either way but will follow this with a sort of neutral one showing the effect.

So I have decided to keep both screens. My matte white will stay as a big 4*3, and I will mount the SS/SM screen in a 16*9 format in front on the matte white's frame so I can remove it yet also have it available for movies etc where the blacks are more important to me than pure whites and vibrant color. That way I will also have either a white or grey surface available to play around with if that panamorph power buy ever comes through.

matte white top - ss/sm bottom (40/60 over a Kiltz II primer with ss pigments) I used about 1/2 of an HVLP gravity feed cup in the multiple coats

Originally posted by RalphArch
matte white top - ss/sm bottom (40/60 over a Kiltz II primer with ss pigments) I used about 1/2 of an HVLP gravity feed cup in the multiple coats

Since you do have a HLVP gun, and obviously have spraying technique down pat, to acheive the very best "Paint" solution available, you should now spray at least a couple coats of Pure SM on your SS/SM screen, then top coat it with either true MMud, or another "High White Pigment" flat latex paint.

That's not much in keeping with the original focus in this thread, but your wanting great whites as well as assisting the CR of your sharp is a situation that calls for doing what's best, not easiest.

Hey, you almost over halfway done! Keep two screens around? neither affixed to something? You must have an understanding Wife!

You CAN expect the following should you go down the nest road.

1. The White topcoat will povide you with everybit of the quality whites you desire.

2. The pure SM underlayment will enhance the contrast of the PJ by assuring that such low to moderate energy contained within the light that strikes the screen surface will not be washed out by the brilliance that your Sharp delivers. Rather, the effect will be that your darks get darker, but not at the expense of your whites.

The above is well proven and documented, and seems very doable (...and justified) in your case. Only mirror based Light Fusion could do it better. Your going the pure SM/MM screen approach WILL satify your demands, I'm thinking.

Below, and over the next 3 posts are some examples of a SM/MM painted wall in action.

PJ was a SE 20-HD LCD w/ 1388x768 res @ 16:9 2200 Lumens Screen area is 10.5' diagonal, so unless your screen is at least 9' diagonal, the size difference between the two should easily compensate for the difference of luminosity between the 20-HD & your Sharp. (about 500 - 600 lumens)

I'm bettin' you won't find any fault with the white levels in these examples.

Check 'em out.

All these posted shots are from a screen project that was done in November, prior to the advent of Super Deluxe or Light Fusion.

Largest such screen so far attempted? 14' diagonal. Got pic of that one too if your interested?

Within the collage of shots below are two comparisons of the same shot, one taken in darkness, the other with a 100 watt lamp on a end table just 5' from the bottom right corner of the screen.

Also, a shot of the screen without an image, in ambient room light. You can see the SM undercoat around the edges.

Lastly, a shot of Gandalf & the Balrog fighting in the Mines of Moria.

Both balcks, and shawdow detail are very good, IMO of course.

But waddIno?

Originally posted by MississippiMan
Since you do have a HLVP gun, and obviously have spraying technique down pat, to acheive the very best "Paint" solution available, you should now spray at least a couple coats of Pure SM on your SS/SM screen, then top coat it with either true MMud, or another "High White Pigment" flat latex paint.

That's not much in keeping with the original focus in this thread, but your wanting great whites as well as assisting the CR of your sharp is a situation that calls for doing what's best, not easiest.

Hey, you almost over halfway done! Keep two screens around? neither affixed to something? You must have an understanding Wife!
.....



Thanks MM - I may take a break for a while as other things need fixing like the boat. I will make a note of your advice and remind myself after a while but I really am ok with the SS/SM screen.

Wife is ok with the screens - its really one big "Parkland-like" 80*60" matte white sheet on wall that I am just going to frame with black for contrast and then hang the 16*9 SS/SM in the normal letter box for an xga off the frame and mask the rest of the matte white. Most of my viewing is HD or DVDs so the better blacks are normally what I want; but will still have the big matte white 4*3 underneath for computer applications and digital camcorder etc..

Just wanted to update any interested parties of the current status of the 1st Behr-SS screen.

Well it's been almost 2 months now since my original Behr Silverscreen was painted. It's probably cured as much as it's going to at this point. The picture is still great. Nice fleshtones, darks are acceptable (to me). The gatorboard backing has really bowed now (I wanted to see how much before I frame it) to a point of a toroid screen. Ambient light rejection is acceptable too (for the price).

Q: I wonder if this is adding to the image quality I am seeing?

Q: Anyone with experience with curved screens wish to chime in on this one?

Next week I plan to mount it into a wooden frame in preparation for hanging. I'll take some photos of before mounting and after mounting (with and without images) to see if the "experience" changes. I'll also add some with copius amounts of ambient light too (it'll force me to clean up the room, and make the wife happy too).

:)

Stay tuned......

Oh...., that was Salacious Crumb, wasn't it?


Originally posted by bcortez
Just wanted to update any interested parties of the current status of the 1st Behr-SS screen.

Well it's been almost 2 months now since my original Behr Silverscreen was painted. It's probably cured as much as it's going to at this point. The picture is still great. Nice fleshtones, darks are acceptable (to me). The gatorboard backing has really bowed now (I wanted to see how much before I frame it) to a point of a toroid screen. Ambient light rejection is acceptable too (for the price).

Q: I wonder if this is adding to the image quality I am seeing?


Only in the "brightness' category, I'm sure.


Q: Anyone with experience with curved screens wish to chime in on this one?

Guess who? Ambient light rejection is the paramount advantage any curved screen brings to the Table. Screen combos that employ both the curved principle AND a highly reflective surface are among the very most expensive screens made. Most all are out of necessity "Fixed Screens", so they usually go into dedicated HTs, and Commercial endeavors.

The best news this can offer is a 'more than passable' screen surface that already has good ambient light rejection, and a curve that enhances that trait, but is still minuscule enough to not to add distortion to the edges of the image. And certainly not reduce viewing angle so severely that everyone has to sit on each other's laps' at dead center to get the very best of a good picture. Hey...! it happens!



Next week I plan to mount it into a wooden frame in preparation for hanging. I'll take some photos of before mounting and after mounting (with and without images) to see if the "experience" changes. I'll also add some with copious amounts of ambient light too (it'll force me to clean up the room, and make the wife happy too).

:)

Stay tuned......

Like a Piano, Bud

I'm already curving a large Light Fusion for a Client. Only 6 degrees lift at the edge at 48" out from center. ( approx. 4") Very little chance of distortion, plus some additional increase in ambient light rejection promises to be worth the effort.

I'll anxiously await your photo!

I'll be eager to hear your results, MM. I've felt a full LF effort was beyond my meager painting skills, but I think I can paint a silver surface well enough for a curved screen. I'm planning to toss up a Parkland or something similar once my HT is built, just to get a picture on the wall. Then once I've nailed down the size & etc I'll work on building a curved silver screen.

My frame's built and the fabric's stretched. I have a gallon of SS in the Ultra Pure White base. The fabric is an off-white cotton muslin. Should I spray a few coats of Flat White on with a sanding between before the SS or should I just start with the SS and sand between coats. I know the last spray isn't to be sanded.
John

As promised, here are a few "before framing" shots. No projected image, just ambient light, with a can ceiling light above.

Here is a side shot demonstrating the bowing that occurred when the paint dried (only painted one side). Still, it performed wonderfully....

Here it is with my HTPC movie menu projected.

Hello, name's Bruce....

Why trust a shark......right!?!
(this is with 1/4 ambient light above.....

Why trust a shark......right!?!
(this is with 1/2 ambient light above.....)

Looks good! I have to figure out how to get my Kodak 3500 digicam to take pics of the screens I built using the SS. Even with the amibient lighting in the club, the colors from the videos, etc. just POP off the screen.

Why trust a shark......right!?!
(this is with 3/4 ambient light above.....)

Why trust a shark......right!?!
(this is with full ambient light above.....)

Here it is after being cut to 92" and temporarily framed (cut to 83x48, with a 1.5 inch slot in the wooden framing). This is a temp frame, which I plan to cover with black velveteen (or cheap equivalent) I'll be buying tonight.

NOTE: The frame is a "slapco" frame. Slpped together quickly to get it up and mounted flat. This took out the bowing that was evident when unframed.

Here it is, in total light control. I watched Start TRek II: Wrath of Kahn on it last night. One word, IN-$%#$%-CREDIBLE!!!!

Take that Kahn!!

Fire!!!!

Remember.......

NOTE: This is a good example of both facial tones alongside deep blacks. This image represents what I saw on the screen almost to a "T".

And for a comparison to older shots, the girl we all shudder to see, Little Darla :)

Hope that gives a bit of an idea of what a simple, $10.00 can of paint can do on a piece of GatorFoam board. All totaled, $40.00 screen (used scrap wood for framing).

I'm tempted to try this as the topcoat for a new LF variation....

hmmmmm.... :)

Bcortez, your kickin' some serious Mfg screen ass here!

Do you need a second job? :D

I'd say, without a doubt, that SS has effectively dethroned ME as the definitive 1-coater application.

Now, for the critiquing. Colors seem very exacting, but lack the punch Of LF. You might just have talked me into doing what you candidly suggested, apply it to an upcoming LF in Chicago.

Now, do ya think ya want to try a layer of Opticoat on it as well......................?

Naw!

Those Star Trek pics pretty accurately show the same great bright colors that my SS painted insulation board screens have. Anyone that has come up to me asking about them is completely blown away at the fact that I was able to build 2 120" screens that look that good for only $150 total. It was thanks to your suggestion in the begining to use the SS that made me deside to go with it..... Well done!

Before someone comments on the validity of the images I've posted, the only manipulation was resizing to 640x480 to comply with AVSForum rules. There was no croppping (as evidenced by the extraneous "stuff" in the images), or color/brightness/contrast shifting. As they say in my industry, WYSIWYG.

And to MM, I'm just a software engineer, not a painter. I'm just winging-it in classic DIY style. Which I encourage all those "what if you..." people to embrace. Try it yourself, if you fail, that's not a bad thing. Post your results anyway. We all learn from our mistakes, remember, that's a good thing.

<RANT>
Our culture (here in the U.S.) is so hell bent on not failing, that we obsess over it. Some people will cheat and steal beofre admiotting failure. When did failing, and LEARNING from that failure become so damned bad?!?!?
</RANT>

Corner of HT, notice the grill is painted UPW.

Total light control.

Nemo again. I need to take some other cool shots.

These look good. I'd like to see a post of Darla tapping on the glass. That one seems to be a good comparison shot that many post.

Also:

What's did you use as the base to paint the screen (e.g. I used white GatorFoam)?

What projector are you using?

What is the viewing distance?

What are the screen dimensions?

Is the viewing cone as wide with the SS as with the plain gatorboard? I currently have a Parkland screen I'm using with my new IF 4805. The image is so bright that I know it would benefit from a gray/silver screen.

I tried a piece of grayish silver vinyl. From straight on, the image is fantastic, but the key with the vinyl is that you have to be straight on. If you move off to the side, the image got totally dark. I had the swatch of vinyl draped over my Pakland screen, and the Parkland's image didn't suffer no matter how far off center I was.

I'm hoping to paint the Parkland with the SS if the viewing cone is wide enough.

I look forward to any feedback from someone that can give a firsthand report.

Thanks, Mark

Originally posted by mbroder
Is the viewing cone as wide with the SS as with the plain gatorboard? I currently have a Parkland screen I'm using with my new IF 4805. The image is so bright that I know it would benefit from a gray/silver screen.

I'm hoping to paint the Parkland with the SS if the viewing cone is wide enough.

I look forward to any feedback from someone that can give a firsthand report.

Thanks, Mark

That's a great PJ you have. Whadca giv'em fer it? I'm hopin' ta try one of 'em out real soon on a LF &/or a FSLF. But silverScreen is a great $30.00 altenative (paint & Parkland) to say.....$150.00 to $300.00 for LF to FSLF. I'm with ya. Go get em'.

Oh...BTW. Viewing cone of SS is very wide on masonite, so I'm bettin' you'll find almost NO difference on the Parkland.

..and of course, we WILL expect screenies.

I was one the first to get it from C******;)

To be honest, for alot of the material I've seen so far, my dark taupe colored wall puts out a more satisfying image :eek: . The plain Parkland looks great with sports, but for movies ( at least the kind of movies I watch), I definitely think the SS screen will be a big improvement. Maybe I'll get some time next Sunday to give it a try.

By the way, the 4805 is absolutly amazing.:D :D

This is oh so very interesting.

I was away from this forum for several weeks and never knew of this thread. Just seeing it today for the first time.

One of the reasons I find it interesting is that I reported on the availability of Behr Silver Screen paint on December 31st, 2003 in this forum. Thereby preceding this thread by a good 3+ months.

However I wasn't very enamored of it. It is called "Silver Screen" but that is all marketing, based upon the color reminding one of a movie screen. It actually has no silver in it (unlike Behr's Silver Metallic which is a very different kind of paint). SS is a mixture of Lamp Black, Raw Umber, and Red colors. The formula for a gallon of SS is as follows:

1 gallon white base
20/48ths of Lamp Black
20/48ths of Raw Umber (a dark, murky yellow/orange-based pigment)
2/48ths of Red

This is the same amount of Lamp Black as found in Misty Evening, however the addition of an equal amount of Raw Umber results in this paint being darker than ME.

Obviously this is not a color-neutral paint. Essentially this is what would be classified as a "warm gray." A gray paint with warm colors added in so that it is more "cheerful" when used as an interior wall paint. If projected upon, all whites and colors would shift toward yellow/orange temperatures. Since Raw Umber is a very muted form of yellow/orange - it looks kinda brownish - this shift would not be dramatic, but it would be there. Note that over half of the tint being added to SS is not color-neutral.

If you were using a projector that has the infamous "red-push" or is a bit on the warm side of color temps, then using SS would make these effects more prominent. However if your projector leaned a bit towards blue, this might be an interesting way to balance it. Of course, if someone likes the overall effect of warmer colors then they may like it a lot.

To my eyes, SS is pretty dark to use on a projection screen. Between all of the Lamp Black and Raw Umber, it has got to be cutting down on the gain by several percent. If someone liked the general warm color effect but found it a bit too dark and/or too warm, you could ask your paint store to mix up a lighter version of it. Like say:

Lamp Black 0 16 0 (0 ounces, 16/48ths, 0/96ths)
Raw Umber 0 8 0 (or 0 12 0)

And you'd have to decide if you wanted to leave in the red.

Divide the numbers above by 4 to mix a quart. If you leave the red in and mix a quart, you would add only 1/96th of Red (0 0 1 in paint speak).

Oh, the viewing cone for SS would be the same as for any standard-tint latex paint. There are no unique reflective properties at play here. So flat white, gray, SS, ME, Folkstone, whatever ... all the same viewing cone.

ie, bcortez and ridetheducati,

Looks as though your screenies are coming along rather swimmingly.)pun intended) bcortez, you requested 'finger taping Darla'. She's on my other computer. Will "Nemo and friends" do?

Time to take a bow...both of you.

Here's my Nemo entry:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=3142980&fullpage=1

Just so nobody gets in a twist and gets upset because my 'nemo' screenie was on light fusion, here's the same scene on Misty Evening. Seems to me LCD and CGI make a nice combo on just about any screen solution.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2899961&fullpage=1

I posted in another thread but I wanted to add it here. Got my 8'x6' screen built and painted with Silverscreen. Fantastic!!! I had to recalibrate my PJ but that was easy. I found that reducing by 50% with a 50/50 water/Flotrol mix made it come out of the gun like automotive paint. I worked in three foot sections and back rolled it with a dry 3/8" roller. A light sanding between coats with the last coat left unsanded made for a surface that was comparable to any professional screen I've seen (not many). I may play with some different variations later but for the now I am quite pleased. So thank you BCortez and MississippiMan for all of your "most excellent" help. Both direct and indirect.
With warm regards,
John

Here's that friggin tank pokin' Darla. You'll have to settle for her on ME because I can't find the light fusion one.

bcortez, this one's for you.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2900004&fullpage=1

PS: MM if you study this image you'll see the tell tale orange fringe you suspect is a by-product of my LFS. Not a chance. This one was taken on my ME screen...long before light fusion came on the scene. One more reason Z1's don't have 50-HD price tags.

but, I found her. Darla on light fusion:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=3211414&fullpage=1

Darla...on silver.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=3211389&fullpage=1

My take: Every screen solution presented on this thread is a viable one. There's plenty of excellent DIY ability on AVS. Members need not spend a fortune to enjoy good HT. $10.00 worth of silverscreen or $7.00 for ME will make all but the fussiest happy.

Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
...
One of the reasons I find it interesting is that I reported on the availability of Behr Silver Screen paint on December 31st, 2003 in this forum. Thereby preceding this thread by a good 3+ months.
...
However I wasn't very enamored of it. It is called "Silver Screen" but that is all marketing, based upon the color reminding one of a movie screen. It actually has no silver in it (unlike Behr's Silver Metallic which is a very different kind of paint).


Tom, with all due respect, did you actually try it, or is this a hypothesis on your part? Many here have lots of knowledgable opinion, hypothesis, and questions, but until you actually try something, it's all academic, wouldn't you agree? I embrace the true definition of DIY, with emphasis on the D.

If you tried it, can we see some screenies or a picture of the screen? This would help determine why you are not enamoured of it. I am happy to have a temporary screen, for under $50.00, that will suffice until I can make an LF screen this summer.


SS is a mixture of Lamp Black, Raw Umber, and Red colors. The formula for a gallon of SS is as follows:

1 gallon white base
20/48ths of Lamp Black
20/48ths of Raw Umber (a dark, murky yellow/orange-based pigment)
2/48ths of Red

This is the same amount of Lamp Black as found in Misty Evening, however the addition of an equal amount of Raw Umber results in this paint being darker than ME.



Thanks for the formula. How did you get it? Did you have the paint anaylzed or something? Honestly, I am curious (no digs intended).


Obviously this is not a color-neutral paint.


I never claimed it was. All I did was look at the swatches, find one that seemed closest to Misty Evening (which was not available for me), spent the $10.00, and rolled away. I figured, if it didn't work, I'm out $10.00 and an afternoon's time. But I gained knowledge and experience to share here.


To my eyes, SS is pretty dark to use on a projection screen. Between all of the Lamp Black and Raw Umber, it has got to be cutting down on the gain by several percent.


As I said in the opening post, I was using a plain piece of GatorFoam, the hotspotting was unbearable, compared to that Behr SS is a 1000% improvement for a minimal investment. That's a winner in my book. Hell, I'm not a chemist, never claimed to be, just a videophile that enjoys DIY and experimenting.

SS applied to drywall with 3 coats of Kilz, 1st and 2nd coat was wet sanded.

Z2 version 1.06
106" diag viewed from 10 feet.

Sup Yo, I used this paint on my wall. It was the bomb

Originally posted by ridetheducati
SS applied to drywall with 3 coats of Kilz, 1st and 2nd coat was wet sanded.

Z2 version 1.06
106" diag viewed from 10 feet.

Screenie? Get off that Road Rocket and post a Pic!



Bcortez,

Tom probably did try it, but often, a particular mix can come out decidedly different depending on who mixes it. It shouldn't happen that way, because of HD's computer augmented system, but it does. That's why you HAVE to look at the mix, and view a DRIED swatch of color on a Stir Stick to the card to assure yourself of a match.

Did Tom do this? I don't know, but I'd guess yes 'cause he's no dummy.

Then, the PJ, and it's attributes or deficiencies will dictate how well it can do with SS, or any other "non-neutral" surface.

Then, there is personal preference. I've seen it. Dozens saw it at the Shoot-out and liked it. more that a few on this thread have tried it and are "enamored" of it. (Sheesh! Let's ALL get "Warm & Fuzzy" now!:rolleyes: )

So I wouldn't worry too much about any one person's opinion. Tom is fair, and usually measured in his posting of comments & criticisms, but he is in the minority here.

So........,, fergitabowdit! ;) :D :cool:

Originally posted by JoeBrown
Sup Yo, I used this paint on my wall. It was the bomb

Yo , Wassup wit da slip? ? It's Da Bomb!

Hey MM,

Like I said, I wasn't tryin to 'dis anyone, just asking the basic questions. So, there was nuttin to fergit.

One of the aspects I liked about the Behr SS (aside from the low cost) is that it's not a bad color if you had to do a whole wall. I mean, if you wanted a wall covering that you could also use as a projection surface, it's definitely in the running. It would "go" with any "decor" sicne its a sorta neutral grey. In that respect it has a high WAF ratio compared to other solutions.

Man, no more of that home improvement channel for me for a while. I gotta go, as comedian Eddie Izzard says, "saw a piece of wood in half", to kick up that testosterone level a few notches
;)

Originally posted by bcortez
Tom, with all due respect, did you actually try it, or is this a hypothesis on your part? Many here have lots of knowledgable opinion, hypothesis, and questions, but until you actually try something, it's all academic, wouldn't you agree?

No, I wouldn't agree with this. If someone told me they painted their screen sunflower yellow, I would not have to try it myself in order to have a good idea of what a projected image looked like on it.

As I've stated in other threads, this isn't magic, it is science. Results can be fairly accurately predicted if one has enough of the data. Since we are talking about flat wall screens with no special properties other than the reflectively of the latex paint being used on them, this really isn't a difficult equation to solve for, at least in terms of having a good grasp of the effect.

In this case I base most of my statements upon the outcome being largely predictable once one knows exactly what the paint is comprised of.

In addition to this, I did take two paint sample cards home and did examine them very closely under a variety of colors being projected on them while comparing their effect vs both pure white and light gray. Using very small areas isn't as easy to quickly see the results, but nonetheless, the effects can be observed and are quite accurate if this is done correctly.

I wasn't about to drop another $10 on a quart of paint that I already knew wasn't going to be what I wanted.

The effect I immediately saw was that the Silverscreen swatch was browner than the pure light grey behind it. As I ran various colors over that area, this was constantly true. But I should add while the effect was immediately obvious, it was still subtle.

I'm sure that if one was observing a full screen of this color that while all colors would be shifted toward a warmer brown, that you eyes would acclimate to this and you might not be able to readily notice the effect unless you then overlaid the screen with some white or color-neutral gray.

Note that while I said I wasn't enamored of this effect, I'm not a big fan of using the screen to tint the color balance, that this doesn't mean that others wouldn't like it, or even love it. In the end a person should use whatever makes that screen look the best to them. If that happens when projecting on Silverscreen, then use Silverscreen.


Thanks for the formula. How did you get it? Did you have the paint anaylzed or something? Honestly, I am curious (no digs intended).

Nope, I simply asked the Home Depot paint guy to write it down for me. Along with about 7 or 8 other paint formulas. He readily complied.

As I said in the opening post, I was using a plain piece of GatorFoam, the hotspotting was unbearable, compared to that Behr SS is a 1000% improvement for a minimal investment. That's a winner in my book. Hell, I'm not a chemist, never claimed to be, just a videophile that enjoys DIY and experimenting.

I think what you did was fine. Sharing was fine too. I just wanted to add some facts and opinion to the thread.

I'm all for people doing this. However I would like it if a lot of participants on these forums begin to embrace that they are not slaves to commercial paint mixes. The likelihood of a commercial wall paint being the perfect screen for a projector is extremely low. But maybe it is close for a particular person in a particular room with a particular projector. Then from there, they can move toward custom mixes that do even more for them.

My concern about Silverscreen is that it just has too much other color in it. I can see dabbling around the edges of a pure gray screen by having a little bit of red or green or blue or orange added in to slightly impact the color balance. But this paint has about 3-4 times as much color as I would ever advocate. This makes me uncomfortable.

I also believe that everyone who starts to go down the path of using a darker screen should begin by using pure grays. That is the logical starting point. First get your black levels to where you like them before you start dinking around with altering the color balance. That's my opinion, and it may not be worth anything to you.

I do agree that if you are painting a whole wall that a paint like SS will have a higher WAF than if you use a pure gray. Pure grays look dingy and institutional.

HT advocates have a nice benefit in that one of the best wall paints for use as a screen is white. Great colors, bright images, high WAF in many cases.

Boy o Boy, did I guess wrong. I really DID think that you had to have some real basis for your posted comments, and went to batt for you on the basis of that premise.

You say your sharing facts & opinions? I see not one provable "dessenting" statement in your post. Opinions that are offered up without basis in any true experience, or real effort are nothing more than self aggrandizing rants made for the bebeifit of one's own ego. .

Tom, for you to say you can make such deffinative conculsions by observing a paint swatch card from HD is ludicrous. A Paint swatch card is a rendering of the color, but it is NOT the same as the paint, either in texture, composition, or thickness. In effect, all you were making your judgements on were a piece of colored cardboard. Even so, if at the very minimum, had you tried the mix itself on a 2' x 4' peice of cardboard, you could be excused much. Maybe even acknowledged. But I degress. $10.00 was too much. Talk is cheaper.

Your Sunflower example is almost akin to the old "If someone told you to Jump in front of a Train..' line Parents have used for years uncounted to shame children for being blindly led by others into wrongdoing.

Your comments are close to insulting to the people who have spent the $10.00 you refused to, and if you cannot find the funds or the time to do likewise, you relegate your observations down to the level of mere speculation. Your opinions become nothing more than uninformed guesses. Your not so learned or experienced in the realm of of painting or the genre of DIY that you can so easily dismiss what so many have already tried and accepted as valid, unless you just plain insistant on decrying any efforts by others not officially approved by you as valid. I've personally seen how various methods and exotic materials have been all to easily dismissed by your Peers on AVS, yet have resulted in excellent DIY projects. Thank God so many decided to 'try it anyway'.

I'm used to the abuse, and have received such for statements and projects that are far in excess of what this poor, misguided thread pertains to.
These Folks here deserve better, and more respect for thier endeavors. Personally, I think this paint, and various other DIY options have scared the hell out of people who sell screens for a living. Soon, the Mfgs will draw sweat as well. And it should, just as the knowledge that a flat, smooth, plain white wall will work as good any plain white Mfg screen should if more Consumers got the word. And beleive you me, with the Masses poised to snatch up "The Big Picture", there will be many more who are receptive to a affordable, common sense approach than to the various Mfg. options..., IF they DO get the aforementioned word.

What a world, what a world.

I'm melting.................melting.

"Gee...would you look at that? We're outta snowcones."

Originally posted by CMRA
"Gee...would you look at that? We're outta snowcones."
I can make some more... It'll just take a minute... I just need to go outside...

Originally posted by Stereodude
I can make some more... It'll just take a minute... I just need to go outside...

Please don't! I don't want to join in on Tom's Brain Freeze :p



Pee S,

Oh...., I get it. Snowcones. Outside. Yellow.

Let's not go too far off of the deep end.

I see absolutely no reason to go buy a paint that is half tinted by the color Raw Umber. I'm not going to throw away $10 & paint more boards to satisfy your curiosity. Nor will I be trying a paint that contains 20/48ths of magenta, green, blue, or every other tint in the paint machine just to make sure I have tried them all before posting. That would be silly.

I have access to all of these colors here in my home. My daughter is an artist. We have about 30 tubes of color pigments. I can, and do, cut some of them with white to see how the color lightens. I have seen very light raw umber. I do not want to tint my fleshtones and all other colors into that direction.

I very seriously doubt that the manufacturers who make screens for a living are scared by the likes of Silverscreen and Misty Evening wall paints. Given that most of their potential customer base is paying $2000+ for their projectors, I suspect only a small fraction of that base is going to be projecting on various tints of wall paint (excluding white which I'm sure far more people are projecting onto). Particularly wall paint that has tints in it that change the color balance of those expensive projectors and have below 1.0 gain factors.

Projecting on a white wall, made up of paint or Parkland or Do-Able or whatever, is a frugal person's attempt to get relatively decent images for a low cost. I readily admit to being one of these people who has chosen to not pursue the best possible image at the cost of a much better screen. Projecting onto true gray screens is even more of a compromise in an attempt to get better blacks at the expense of the vibrancy of colors. Count me in again here. Projecting onto mostly gray but color-tinted wall paint is problematic where one gives up vibrancy and color accuracy in the name of picking up nirvana in an easily mixed $10 can of paint.

Sure some of us are satisfied with these compromises. That's because we are saving money. I doubt many of us would choose to keep these screens if we had a chance to pick up a true high-performance screen for $50.

I will agree with you that there is little reason to trade a good Parkland or Behr UPW screen for a plain matte white "professional" screen. I've compared them and there is very little difference. The plain white screen is where DIY really does compete well - cheap and relatively easy to implement. But matte white is not where today's screen technology is focused, that is a decades old solution.

Anyone who thinks the big screen manufacturers are in their back rooms devising strategies to ward off losing large chunks of their business to Home Depot-mixed Behr & Glidden wallpaints needs to wake up from their fantasy dream.

I think any true challenge to those companies would come from DIY efforts that produce better contrast or black levels or screen gain while still perserving excellent color rendition. I would not be surprised if some of these exist. But I know they can't be purchased in a single can from Home Depot.

Tom :

What if theoritically you had 3 pigments that reflect back a similar spectrum to the light that makes it through the 3 color filters of a DLP. That mixture of the three primary colors would look grey, perhaps similat to pure lamp black at whatever G level. But since the lamp black form of grey will absorb and reflect uniformly across the spectrum, and the hypothetical 3 color wheel matching pigments will reflect selectively those three bands of light that the PJ source is rich in, yet absorb ambient light that falls in the troughs between the projected colors. If the light that comes through the color wheel is fairly narrow spectrum, seems a grey screen like this would be the best of both worlds.

What exactly is a high performance screen? Yes, I know about the 'SilverStar' and the 'FireHawk' and the 'High Power'. But do they really qualify for high performance or are they simply esoteric?

What, by definition, determines "high performance"? Gain? Improved preceived contrast? Color fidelity? Even illumination? Ambient light rejection? Cost? Wow factor? Marketing hype?

If anyone were to say "That's a High Performance screen", which one(s) would they be talking about?

Please put some thought into this before you spout off an answer.

BTW, my take: There are no High performance screens. Merely trade-offs. They all reflect, they are all passive, and it's a balance of what you are willing to compromise to get the benefits you want.

MM,

Screenie? Get off that Road Rocket and post a Pic!

I posted several pix. Page 4, post 161, 162 and 163.

Originally posted by MississippiMan
Yo , Wassup wit da slip? ? It's Da Bomb!



BOOYAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by CMRA
but, I found her. Darla on light fusion:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=3211414&fullpage=1 Now I'm a novice when it comes to screenshots but in viewing the pictures of Darla from bcortez and CMRA's ME and silver shot and comparing them to this picture on LF, am I seeing hotspotting on Darla's thumb? It's hard to see any definition on her thumb in the LF picture.

Originally posted by bowbie89
Now I'm a novice when it comes to screenshots but in viewing the pictures of Darla from bcortez and CMRA's ME and silver shot and comparing them to this picture on LF, am I seeing hotspotting on Darla's thumb? It's hard to see any definition on her thumb in the LF picture.

Actually, no. Of the three, only the silver demonstrates 'hot spotting'. It could be more accurately labeled 'warm spotting' as it is not as intense as most hot spotting images you see posted. Hot spotting refers to those images where the projection light beam concentrates (usually in the middle) and a distinct vignetting surrounds it. The LF Darla is merely a CCD challenged exposure issue.

So Tom, you are comfortable offering an opinion based on nothing more than speculation? Ok, that's your perogative, and your right. Therefore, is it also my right to say that any statement made without a shred of physical proof or backing is simply bunk and FUD? You may not agree with me, many here may not agree with me, but don't tell ME that $10.00 is too much to experiment and PROVE a theory. If you do, then I guess your opinion is worth less than $10.00, huh?

I too looked at the swatches in HD, even brought a few (I think it was about 5) out into the sun to see the real color. I also taped the 5 together and projected onto them (using a new Panasonic PT-L500U LCD projector) alongside the plain white GatorFoam as well as blackout cloth IN MY THEATER under differing light conditions using the light dimmer. In MY eyes, the silverscreen paint looked better out of the three. Granted, this is a hypothesis and still classified as biased opinion. I therefore spent the $10.00 to PROVE my hypothesis, since I recognize it as opinion before I posted my results, and I value my opinion at a lot more than $10.00. I also spent an afternoon's worth of time and rolled the paint on the GatorFoam (two coats).

Once it dried for 3 hours, I projected an image onto it (knowing that it still wasn't fully cured) to see the initial effect against another piece of white GatorFoam and blackout cloth (repeating the previous experiment on a larger scale).

I repeated this experiment 5 times over the course of 5 weeks. This allowed me to determine if curing had any affect to the reflected image and/or viewing cone. To me, there was no visible difference other than the bowing I have mentioned and eventually followed up with a posted screenshot of the entire thing.

Now, is this still my opinion? Probably, but I think it carries a heck of a lot more credibility since it's based upon FACTS and is reproducable and documented. Say what you will from your high horse, but frankly, I take anything you say with a grain of salt (some Lemon, Tequila, Triple Sec and ice too). Until I see hard evidence that I can reproduce myself, then it's all just stale hot air in my book.

So unless you have something real to contribute to the conversation, "I return you all to your regularly scheduled program, already in progress".

PS: I apologize to those fellow DIY'ers here for my ranting in defense of my honor.

Originally posted by bcortez
So Tom, .................................Say what you will from your high horse, but frankly, I take anything you say with a grain of salt (some Lemon, Tequila, Triple Sec and ice too). Until I see hard evidence that I can reproduce myself, then it's all just stale hot air in my book.



Hic. What he said. :p

There are some examples of Tom's experiments with "purely" gray screens in thread# 344875.

Keep the great DIY ideas (and brew) flowing!

wps
gHg

Tom,

Understand that in the world of DIY, you cannot discount or discredit the efforts of others who have contributed "sweat equity" to an Idea by merely stating conjecture, even if it's based on what you to perceive as accumulated knowledge.

Many who think they "know it all", and have dismissed an idea or concept as a fruitless effort on the basis of their pre-conceived opinions have come to regret NOT having tried it themselves.

Tom, you can never tell when an idea or concept might pan out differently than expected. Even qualified concepts have a variable depending on who / what / where / how it's done. My efforts with Silver Metallic / MM 'on-wall' screens as well as Light Fusion are prime examples.

First off, I took SM, which until then was dissed as a poor substitute for a screen paint by itself, and attenuated it's effect by painting Goo over it. Wow. End results were better that either alone could muster. Created MMud, did another full sized example, and achieved even better results.
..............and with Home Depot paints, mind you.

I read on Trygs posts that Mirrors were inappropriate screen surfaces, and only First Surface Mirrors would be a candidate if they could be considered, and they cost too much, and they weigh too much...yadda, etc. I bought that opinion "untried' and came down hard on CMRA for considering a Mirror as a substitute for the "pain in the ass" aspects of messin' with spraying or rolling the SM on Plexi. Shoot, I even had misgivings about using clear Plexi as a substitute for dicking around with having to smooth various surfaces out to allow for a texture-less finish. (...that was the original reason for Plexi.) I even speculated that static cling might attract enough duct to create a problem. I still feel sheepish about that one.:o

But I didn't remain myopic for long, because the discourse on the thread was based on "doing", not just extrapolating data and endlessly debating on it. It (..the whole Plexi idea..) was at least promising enough to cause me to jet from Memphis to San Diego and combine efforts with CMRA to DO something to prove or disprove the ideas and speculation. ( ...yeah, and consume mass quantities of Beer as well....)

And Tom....., believe you me, it cost me (...and CMRA) slightly more than $10.00 to prove out that the concept was indeed worth the trouble. So what did we get for our trouble? SuperDeluxe. a SM/MM screen that far surpassed any expectations we could have hoped for.

Then, because applying SM onto Plexi was still an issue, and because a high degree of light reflectivity off of, and within the gap created by the 1/8' Plexi had become a known asset, CMRA suggested Mirrors, I pooh - poohed it again, (Not because the idea wasn't valid, but because of cost, weight, and availability, ) but he forged ahead, got a cheap mirror, sprayed it with MMud, and the first official Light Fusion Mirror screen was born.

And the result? Many such as you have decried the apparent quality of the end results posted as Snake Oil, deception, manipulation, misinformation, and all because they all just KNEW that you cannot use mirrors, you cannot get any added value from a mirror covered with paint, paint form HD cannot be good enough, and NO WAY could you get images from a inexpensive PJ like the ones posted.

But we did, and all because we tried when other did/would not.

Now comes bcortez, with an idea, (...maybe new, maybe not...) that he hadn't just thought about, he researched it. and did something with his hypothesis. Before he posted an opinion. Myself, on the weight of bcortez ACTUAL experience and results, dared to match it up against the big boy Screen Mfg at the Shoot Out, just for kicks, and it did surprisingly well. Some disaffected parties who have no reason to want a $10 option touted as viable deny that, but I was there, and I had many (30+ out of 90+ present..t) people take the time and make the effort to come up to me personally, and comment immediately afterwards that they we're not just surprised, but amazed that a $10.00 paint could look so good. Was it the best screen application present? No one ventured that opinion, but did it compare favorably against the HC Gray Screen competition? You bet it did.

So really, although I sincerely believe that you bear not one wit of malice or antagonism toward threads like this one, or even against others trying methods you yourself wouldn't, your disrespect for others actual efforts lessens your relevance to a far lower level than it should be.

Some time back last January, on the "Experimenting with Parkland" thread, you did actually roll up your sleeves and do some testing. Although your results, and conclusions were widely discounted as in error. (...those folks were pretty emphatic about it...) Some of your reported results were still tainted on suppositions of non applicability based on personal assumptions, yet your personal efforts at that point lent far more credence to your posts then than here and now. At least there were valid points in your post for one to argue about.

Try it (SS) and if it fails, come back and blast away. Your opinion would then count for something.

All I can quote is:
"Get back. Get back. Get back to where you once belonged."

..................and spend that 10 bucks, ya Cheapskate!



:p ;)

I've used both a sheet of white Parkland and a Do-Able Board painted with Silverscreen paint for my screen. I'm currently using the Silverscreen one as I was having problems keeping waves out of the Parkland material. So far this Do-Able + Silverscreen solution has worked perfect for me. Before I had these I was using the blank wall for my image.

Why did I go DIY? Because i'm cheap and poor and there's no way in hell im going to spend as much as I spent on my projector for a stupid peice of material that I hang on my wall when I get a perfectly good image with what I have now.

The big benefit to me of the Silverscreen paint was the detail in blacks. An example would be the game Halo. I play this all the time, but when I was using a white screen people could hide in the shadows and it would be hard for me to see them. With my grey screen it became much easier to see people hiding in dark places, even when they are wearing black armor.

Anywhoo.... i'm not going to fight with anyone about what is better, I'm sure those "High Performance" screens would add a lot of pretty colors , brightness, and what not to my image, but untill they cost $100-$200 for a 150" i'll have to pass.

It was a wake-up call for many AVSers to discover DIY. What was unimaginable a year ago is eclipsed by many today. They are enjoying DIY solutions they produced themselves that equal or exceed manufactured offerings for a fraction of the cost. You simply do not need to spend $500, $1000, or $2000 to own a great screen. Additionally, you can customize it to your likings and share the education you undeniably acquire along the way.
Point in fact: Follow the Light Fusion story. What all started on a simple piece of plexiglas blossomed into what it is today. And, clever AVSers keep coming up with new and exciting ways to make it even more appealing if not better too.

Originally posted by bcortez
So Tom, you are comfortable offering an opinion based on nothing more than speculation?

I know the color because I've got color samples.

I know the exact paint formula.

I know the colors used in the formula.

I know the effects of having exactly this much lamp black in a paint formula.

I know the effects of having exactly this much red in a paint formula.

I know the effects of having a small amount of raw umber in a paint formula.

I've projected onto two different paint card samples of Silverscreen.

I have experience in testing a variety of different projection screens using different projectors in different rooms.

You want to call my statements nothing more than "speculation" then go ahead, but I must respectfully disagree.

I guess you would need to do such things as to actually taste chocolate with anchovy pieces before you would have any idea of what that might taste like. Or go on a space shuttle before accepting that the earth is round.

As I stated before, I have no problem with anyone liking how an image looks when projected on paints like SS or ME. Who am I to say what is best for someone else. Just like someone might like an audio system better if it rolls off the highs from what would be dead accurate because they find dead accuracy to be bright to their ears.

However people should be able to readily accept and admit that these screen paints are not color neutral because it is impossible for them to be color neutral. Just face reality and admit that it's a personal preference thing. There's no disgrace in that.

I checked out Silverscreen 6 months ago. Looked it over carefully. Got the paint formula. Got the paint samples. Checked out the colors using pure color pigments and their effects when mixed. Then I determined it was not something I was interested in and feel I did so for very sound reasons. I do not have to go buy the paint, paint screens, and run tests to validate my decision. I did the same things with several other gray shades from Behr, Glidden, Walmart, Ace, and other paints. I suspect you performed some kind of evaluative process or else you must have come home with 20 quarts of various gray paints and extensively tested them all.

Sometimes decisions can be based solely upon sound principles.

Originally posted by bcortez
Now, is this still my opinion? Probably, but I think it carries a heck of a lot more credibility since it's based upon FACTS and is reproducable and documented.

Until I see hard evidence that I can reproduce myself, then it's all just stale hot air in my book.


And so you have conducted controlled comparisons of silverscreen vs a known true gray paint of the same grayscale density and absolutely determined that there is no colorshift? Or do you wish to offer a speculation on that subject?

First, I'd like to apologize to those who feel this discussion has spiralled away from it's original intent. That's why in the following remarks, I've tried to expose my real and actual methods relating to the Behr SS paint being used as a projection surface.

Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
And so you have conducted controlled comparisons of silverscreen vs a known true gray paint of the same grayscale density and absolutely determined that there is no colorshift? Or do you wish to offer a speculation on that subject?

No, I have not tested against a neutral (zone 5) gray. Also, please, point me to anywhere here (or on any thread on AVS or on the Internet) where I stated that Behr SS was "color neutral". This is your term not mine. You made some interesting statements earlier too, like:


I know the color because I've got color samples.
I've projected onto two different paint card samples of Silverscreen.

Good, how big are the samples? What was your viewing distance of the tests. Many, many, many people more knowledgeable than me here on AVS have stated emphatically that any sample less than (I guess it's about) 2'x4' doesn't give an accurate estimation of performance. Anything less than that is subject to a wider interpretation of the results (unless of course there's a light spectrometer used, which will probably work with that size sample I guess). Do you have a light spectrometer? I've never claimed any of these "color" properties you mention in any of my threads, other than stating my opinion that I think it increases CR based upon my observations of physical testing and the posting of screen shots using facial tones.


I know the effects of having exactly this much lamp black in a paint formula.

I know the effects of having exactly this much red in a paint formula.

I know the effects of having a small amount of raw umber in a paint formula.

You "know" these things. How? Where is your emperical evidence to back that statement up? Your statement of your daughter being an artist is irrelevant to your argument (unless you too are an artist that uses either paint or light, as in photography, as your meduim). You may have played around with the colors, but a 2 year kid doing finger painting is one thing and (to use the wild analogy formula you seem to like) Leonardo DaVinci is another thing.

You stated previously "As I've stated in other threads, this isn't magic, it is science", well, I too understand how science and the scientific method works.

The scientific method is defined here: http://teacher.nsrl.rochester.edu/phy_labs/AppendixE/AppendixE.html

One notable item from the definition is this, "The most fundamental error is to mistake the hypothesis for an explanation of a phenomenon, without performing experimental tests. Sometimes "common sense" and "logic" tempt us into believing that no test is needed. There are numerous examples of this, dating from the Greek philosophers to the present day."

It is this reason I performed my controlled testing under varying light conditions. I even asked my wife to look at it, although she couldn't be bothered to be taken away from her rerun episode of Friends at the time ;)


So proceeding down that path:

I'd like to first clarify my credentials upon which my statements are based (for the benefit of anyone here that might be interested):

I happen to have received a Associate of Science degree in Computer Information Science from Northern Essex Community College '93, a Bachelor of Science degree Computer Science, with a minor in photography, at Northeastern University '98 in Boston, MA. And I've been an amatuer photographer since the age of 13 when I got my first 35mm SLR.

Therefore, I can honestly say "know" a bit about light and it's affect on color, and the interplay of that color on your eyes in different light level situations. My specialty in photography, it was my final thesis for the degree actually, was large format 4x5 night photography. This specialty requires an indepth _knowledge_ of how light behaves and is peceived in your eye at that level as well as requiring a full _understanding_ of the inverse relationship of light level to distance, the reciprocity effect of film at varying temperatures. We also had to _know_ how to calculate the expected effects, predict what the final image would be, and properly process and print the images (large images, smallest being 20x25) and the effect of light at varying distances using color filters, etc...

------------------------
So, using the scientific method:

1. Observation and Description
Stated earlier as going through the color on the swatches in HD looking for Misty Evening. Not finding it, I searched for something similar, which I came across the Behr SS shade.

2. Formulation of an Hypothesis
Thinking, hmm, this looks similar enough to the Misty Evening shade and it's not that expensive if I have to actually try it.

3. Predict Quantitatively the Results of new Observations
Thinking, I'll bet it has the same properties and will perform in a similar manner to the Misty Evening shade. I'll take 5 swatches to get a big bigger sample piece.

4. Performance of Experimental Tests
I compared the white GatorFoam (blasted out whites and hotspotting was awful) and the (5x swatch) sample of Behr SS. Viewing at both close range and TRYING to see it from seating position at 11' or so, I couldn't really get a good feel for it's performance. _Knowing_ that this size sample wouldn't prove anything to those more knowledgeable than me here on AVS, I must go larger, so I had to pony up the $10.00 at this point and commit to an afternoon.

Using approx 1/3 of the 80x45 surface area for each sample. I used my piece of blackout cloth (which many here start out with as screens, and fares pretty well on its own) as my control since I _know_ it's properties upon the image and it's properties are also familar to many here (a zone 5 grey would also be a good control, I admit, since it is used as a calibration aid in color photography). I proceeded to purchase a quart of the Behr SS to run a larger sampling and comparison test....more "real world" actually. I made a full size 80x45 screen, ran the comparison again to gain EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE.
------------------------

So, there you have it, my application of the scientific method in my experiments. Can you say the same? Have you done due diligence? After all, you said yourself, "it's a science". :)

bcortez,

PLEASE, remind me not to cross swords with you over anything more weighty than beer.:D

Ya know, one of the best aspects of the recent drive toward DIY is that it empowers people to take charge and go where no one else has bothered to go before. Or revisit places where others have abandoned the effort.

Some of the most increadible advances and most desirable products we all enjoy these days came from such effort.

..............now, about that beer?

Originally posted by MississippiMan
bcortez,

PLEASE, remind me not to cross swords with you over anything more weighty than beer.:D

..............now, about that beer?

Yes, about that beer. Is a run in order? It's Thursday. PS: Wanna tote along your 20HD and have some fun?

Does anyone have experience with spraying this sort of latex paint on SINTRA? Do you think it needs a primer?

I take it you're not referring to Sintra, Portugal here ;)

chengka, what is SINTRA? Never heard of it. Is it some sort of panelling material, wood, plastic, etc...?

Googled it, found it at: http://www.solarbotics.net/starting/200207_sintra/200207_sintra.html

Sintra® is the brand name for Alusuise Composites' rigid PVC (poly vinyl chloride) foam board2, a moderately expanded, closed-cell PVC sheet. Developed in Europe in the 1970's, Sintra® was introduced to North America in 1980, and has been used primarily in signs and displays to date. Thanks to a number of useful properties, though, Sintra® and its cousins are seeing increasing attention of late from robot builders.

Bcortez,
You've got it.

It's more rigid than Parkland and even available in gray or light gray. The 3mil 4x8 sheet is generally sold by plastic suppliers for $35, cut to size. I think it's rigid enough to use unsupported, just mask it and you're done. There are some discussions around here about and it's generally well received.

I have a sample of white and it looked like it would hotspot, the grays might not. My plan is to paint one side with silverscreen and maybe even try some Opticoat over that. Since both sides are finished, I always have the other side;)

Ken

P.S. $24 per sheet for white, $29 for colors AND it's available in 5x10!

Now if I could just spray worth a cr@p!!

chengka,

Is it available in either clear or translucent? Now if it was available in clear, we may have another substrate for a LF that's lighter, thinner, and less expensive than either glass, mirrors, or plexi. And it gives me more ideas (scientific method #1 & #2).


:D:rolleyes:

It's not available in clear or opaque. It's actually made by Alcan Composites (http://www.alcancompositesusa.com/) , who might also make Gator Board. I haven't seen Gator, so I can't compare the two.

I just checked the local plastics supply company, and the lady there claims they sell matte white 4x8 sheets of Sintra for about $7.50 !?! Man, if that stuff works at all, it would sure be a cheap experimentation option. And it's nice and light yet rigid enough to be self-supporting. Sounds great.

On this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3968154&highlight=sintra#post3968154) Mandarax said it works OK on its own but benefits from coating with Goo -- or probably MMud or SS or whatever.

I'll be taking pics of my Silver Screens tonight. Hopefully I'll be able to get screen shots as well........

I called around my area here for Sintra and best price I could get was $65 CDN for 4 x 8 sheet @ 1/8th". But they can't get it in 5x10.

Found one 1/4", 5x10. Will take 4 weeks for delivery. $100

Originally posted by Jcoffey
I'll be taking pics of my Silver Screens tonight. Hopefully I'll be able to get screen shots as well........

By all means...but...DB wants us to tag them and post them in the Gallery section or link them to other servers. I know, I know, grumble grumble.

Originally posted by garyfritz
I just checked the local plastics supply company, and the lady there claims they sell matte white 4x8 sheets of Sintra for about $7.50 !?! Man, if that stuff works at all, it would sure be a cheap experimentation option. And it's nice and light yet rigid enough to be self-supporting. Sounds great.

On this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3968154&highlight=sintra#post3968154) Mandarax said it works OK on its own but benefits from coating with Goo -- or probably MMud or SS or whatever.

garyfritz,
$7.50! It could be worth the drive to get a few sheets at that price. PM in your inbox.

Every market is different, but I would try plastic suppliers rather than sign companies. I was quoted $150 from a sign company and $25 from the plastic supplier. Some places carry KOMATEX, which is apparently the same and made without lead, so you don't have to worry about your kids eating it!

Originally posted by
Some places carry KOMATEX, which is apparently the same and made without lead, so you don't have to worry about your kids eating it!


If I had a kid chewing on my projection screen, the lead content of the screen would be the least of his worries... :)

I painted my 95" diagonal parkland screen yesterday with SS. It made HUGE improvements on all levels. I think I'd like to go bigger though, the 4805 has enough brightness to handle probably up to 110". I might make a blackout cloth screen and try painting it.

Look over in the <$3500 forum later today for Guitarman's pics of our H30 vs 4805 shootout last night.

Originally posted by mbroder
I painted my 95" diagonal parkland screen yesterday with SS. It made HUGE improvements on all levels. I think I'd like to go bigger though, the 4805 has enough brightness to handle probably up to 110". I might make a blackout cloth screen and try painting it.

Look over in the <$3500 forum later today for Guitarman's pics of our H30 vs 4805 shootout last night.

Question for you as I am keeping 2 screens around (one for normal movie/DVD viewing and another (matte white parkland like) for viewing digital photos, digital camcorder tapes, and watching sports on HDTV.

I find that things like last week's US Open, and an HDTV soccer game I was watching from Euro 2004 on InHD, are actually much better viewed on matte white. DVDs such as Finding Nemo are much better on my SS/SM combo..

Do you also find variability in what you consider "HUGE improvements on all levels" when watching alternative material such as I am pointing out or is your experience better accross the board?

Originally posted by RalphArch
Question for you as I am keeping 2 screens around (one for normal movie/DVD viewing and another (matte white parkland like) for viewing digital photos, digital camcorder tapes, and watching sports on HDTV.

I find that things like last week's US Open, and an HDTV soccer game I was watching from Euro 2004 on InHD, are actually much better viewed on matte white. DVDs such as Finding Nemo are much better on my SS/SM combo..

Do you also find variability in what you consider "HUGE improvements on all levels" when watching alternative material such as I am pointing out or is your experience better accross the board?


I haven't really had the opportunity to watch anything other than DVD feeds since I got the new pj last week. I don't have an HD STB yet (my other tv has a built in HD tuner with no output capability).

With that said, I like to watch sports in a room thats not as dark as a cave. I think if you have a place for it, keeping 2 screens is a good idea. You really don't need to enhance black levels for a football game.

bcortez,
I was going to comment on this before the thread was truncated:

"Capturing "real" colors on camera

As a photography minor in college, I can assure you that no matter whether you use a high-end 6+ MPixel digicam or 4x5 ASA 100 color film, you will NEVER, EVER, reproduce what your eye can see. Your eye has literally millions more receptors which can perceive a much wider range of colors and shades than ANY reproduction method....period.

This is one of the limitations photographers must accept, and understand. This adds that "how will it look on film" question to every shot. Good photographers understand this and can attempt to compensate in numerous ways both in-camera and during processing to attain the desired affect.

Your eye has much better ability to discern shades of grey and black in low-light conditions....that's nature. Unfortunately, nature has nothing to do with our feeble attempts to capture her beauty, we can only get a fraction of the subtleties. Also, everyone's eyes are different, and see colors and shades differently

For example, I have 20/10 vision (unfortunately, I see SDE and rainbow effect everywhere, even at 15' back), with a slight pigment deficiency. This means I see better in the dark at the expense of needing sunglasses whenever I'm out in the sun (as evidenced in my photo to the left). This is why I plan to build a LFS when I get the chance, anything to reduce that SDE (that my wife can't see, and thinks I'm crazy when I try to show her).

"
You are spot on with this info. Kodak even offers a dedicated website covering almost every aspect of photography you can possibly think of. (for free)
BTW, hang on to those sunglasses. They may come in handy when you fab your light fusion. PS: Thanks for your DIY contribution. Offers members yet another affordable screen option. MM even mentioned he preferred it to ME.

Originally posted by bcortez
So, there you have it, my application of the scientific method in my experiments. Can you say the same? Have you done due diligence? After all, you said yourself, "it's a science". :)

I haven't had time to follow this thread of late. But have I conducted tests as extensive as yours? Absolutely. Far more so in fact, using several different shades of paints on several different types of surfaces. Likewise I too have a long history in optics and photography, having performed extensive tests of telescopic and binocular optics and the resultant color shifts from the use of different types of glass & coatings on lense surfaces, mirrors, and prisms. I've even had my reviews of these products published.

Likewise I have performed astrophotography and developed my own prints.

I'm also extremely sensitive to colors. I do wear eyeglasses, which correct my vision to 20/10, and over the years of being dissatisfied with every higher-index plastic lens I've ever used (they have chromatic aberration), I had to go back to using Nikon crown glass lens with Nikon A/R coatings - for which I pay a premium. I'm called the "human optical calibration machine" by my company's computer monitor repair staff because I can walk up to a monitor and tell them in a matter of seconds how accurate the color calibration and alignment is. And have been proven to be amazingly accurate for when they use their expensive calibration meters the results are almost identical. Likewise I've eye-calibrated some HDTV sets and then had people use the AVIA DVDs with the color filters to re-calibrate and found that the settings were near-identical to identical.

These are some of the reasons why I never understood why anyone thought Misty Evening was color-neutral. From the first second I laid eyes on an image projected on ME, it was obvious that it imparted a blue tint to every color on the screen.

SS is not as obviously off-neutral as ME. Raw Umber is a much better pigment to mix with Lamp Black to get to a gray neutral screen. My problem with SS is as I stated before, it is too dark for my preference. I don't have to run extensive tests to know this. Lamp Black alone in mixture of 0 20 0 for a gallon is already on the border of being too dark for me. Adding in an equal amount of Raw Umber would move it noticably darker.

Then, on top of this, is SS having a bit of red added. Red is my projector's enemy. I'm using an attentuator on my red inputs to tone down the red push in the projector. So I know I don't want red in my projection screen.

As I stated before, I can understand someone potentially liking the effect of the Raw Umber. But I would cut both the amount of Lamp Black and Raw Umber before using this as a screen paint. Indeed, I just may try out an altered mixture in a week or so.

I, for one, wish to give Tom his due. He adds an important element to DIY. He's also one of the most eloquent writers I have witnessed on AVS.
Tom, your last thread speaks volumes about yourself and clears up many misconceptions. I now realize how important color purity is to you. I just hope you can find a mutual understanding for our differing preferences.

Tom,

Thanks for that background explanation. Since your original message was the first post I've ever read from you, and it had an edge to it, I hope you can understand my defenses going up. Especially that piece about SS not being color neutral, which I never claimed in the first place. I'm only touting this paint as a dead simple and usable paint for those unwilling (or unable) to either decide from the myriad of formula's here or not enamoured with mixing their own. I may actaully try one of your formula's for a zone 5 grey. Can you recommend one? I can do a test panel and put it up against the SS screen.

Hey, it's all good. We're all after the same thing, right? The best screen for the lowest price. Alas, a Holy Grail it may be, but the journey is the important part in this type of quest :)

Could anyone comment on the color of SS relative to the Carada gray or HCCV? I have a sample of Komatex light gray and it is much lighter than Carada's gray.

Ken

Alright I have screen painting question for you guys. I saw at the first of the thread that when you painted with the Silverscreen after it dried it curled the board. I have an older Vutec screen that is a 1.0 gain that is a snap frame, and it is showing its age and instead of just scrapping it I was thinking maybe just paint it for giggles. Now it would not be able to roller it while on the frame since it snaps to the front of the frame and the material would bow. I have made up a giant easel out of a 4' X 8' sheet of ply wood and clamped the screen to it. Do think it is safe to roller it now or do you think that it will curl when it dries and possibly crack when I strech it back on to the frame.

Thanks

Greg

Roll your first coat onto the assembly as is, then replace it back onto the frame. The paint that''s on there will allow the subsiquent coat to flow onto the surface instead of skip, slide or Flat spot.

If your using latex, and haven't thinned it too much or put too much paint down, you'd have to be pretty rough with it to get it to crack.

I'll give it a try.
Thanks
Greg

Originally posted by Greg Risley
I'll give it a try.
Thanks
Greg

I'm anxious to know how your project turned out. Any news to share?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3993363#post3993363

After reading this, I said "Hell, I gotta try it." I'd already read this thread and hooked up a DIY screen painted with SS when I got my x1. I dug it, but I thought I could tweak just a LITTLE better picture out of it. I'd PM'd people about their stuff--got a cool recipe for a silver paint made out of gesso combinations, found out what I have to take to lowe's to get Plank Grey made now (they don't do that one anymore) but Lowe's is quite a ways away from me, and the gesso was a little more than I was ready to spend right now--it probably would have had to wait a month or two. I was already starting to budget for it, though ;)

Read the above thread tonight, though. I had more than enough SS left over (I wildly overestimated how much I'd need when I bought the paint) so I figured I'll just grab some pearlescence and do the 75/25 SS/Pearlescence mix as listed in the link above. I'm all of 3 minutes away from a home depot, had the extra change in my pocket, figured it'd take an hour tops to mix it up.

Mixed it together in a 1 liter container. 3/4ths Behr SilverScreem, 1/4th Opal White Pearlescence. rolled it on.

It's dried, but not cured all the way yet--and it's a DEFINITE improvement. Brightness increased, colors pop a little more, and the black level is just as good as plain SS--and since the whites and colors are a tad punchier, it actually makes the blacks look a little darker in comparison--or in contrast, as it were, ha ha ha. Ha. erm. yeah..

So anyway, I gotta give unending thanks to xanaduguy for taking the shot on something that hadn't occured to anyone. I'm vouching for his find--SS and Pearlescence mix is looking GREAT with my X1.

Mr. Fatboy Roberts,

Can you taek some screenies for us to see? You can post them in the gallery section of AVS and then simply link to 'em from here. I know I'd like to see them, thanks

PS: Congrats on having an open enough mind to actually try something out and not judge based upon "knowing it won't work" (which seems to be rampant here as of late).

:)

It all sounds pretty promising, and the screenies by xanaduguy are winners as far as overall promise.

WO Pearlesence has been used as an ingredient in DIY creations for some time. The last "Silver" application to generate a lot of buzz was Behr's "Silver Stag (50%) w/ (50%) WO Pearlesence". Some swore it the best thing since oxygen mixed w/air, but when matched directly with Mfg screens at a shoot-out, it was...well, abysmal. (fuzzy image...hot spotting) I was there, and my Behr Antique Pewter (a DARK Gray) did better. (....but only with a 20-HD hitting it, which was why it was brought. With other PJs it too tanked badly)

Silver Stag was not made the same as Silver Screen (tint wise) and it did not have the advantage of today's better PJs. It was just 2 1/2 years ago but that's an eon in PJ and DIY screen development.

Pearlesence kind lay dormant in most's DIY'ers planning for awhile. My own use of it came as a obvious addition in MMud when I started duplicating CRT White Goo. Just looking at the Goo Topcoat one could judge the importance of the pearl attributes, but one could also see that it was nowhere near a 50-50 ratio. So I too settled for a 25% ratio of Pearl.
I tried 50% pearl 25% UPW 25% Deep Base as a MMud derivative and results were too close to the original MMud to warrant the expense of another Quart of WOP.

Bcortez is Da Man for raising the awareness of Silver Screen again, after it having been dismissed by most others a while back. (Tom?)
I enjoyed seeing it lift Eyebrows at the last Shootout, and chuckled at the attempts at damage control it generated.
Several AVS'ers are in the process of incorporating it onto various types of Light Fusion projects for increased ambient light rejection. That involves is being mixed with MMUd, which has the Pearl included.

.................but xanaduguy is the "Man -o- the Hour" and gets the credit for making the combination of SS & WOP a "Stand Alone" application So far, if his shots are to be considered a benchmark to go up against, he's raised the bar for the "Under $30 worth of Paint" crowd.

Maybe even for the more exotic applications as well. I started out painting walls, not mirrors. I'm speaking with no bias when I say that a Silver Metallic base topped with MMud (SM/MM) has up untill now been the best "Paint on the Wall" application I've ever seen. Oh...., but what a pain it can be! Even MississippiMud by itself on a wall has been adjudged the best overall Top Coat by many. (...once again, some expense and PITA aspects to deal with...)

But you just see how fast I will jump ship, change horses in mid stream, reverse course, and turn about face, and...well, you know....., go a cheaper & easier route. My Dealer base and myself look to these developments as an advantage to both us and our Clients. Anything that can cut costs while delivering exceptional performance, and do so with style, is in direct keeping with what our business models are all about.

I had just about settled comfortably into a niche, believing that MMud alone on a wall would suffice for any 1000 Lumen+ DLP HD-2 PJ with 2000:1 CR and HD resolution. And most others PJs as well when the Owner was not looking to go exotic.

Silver Screen w/ White Opal Pearlesence promises to be all that and more. But the best part is that it will accomplish that for less. Money, that is. You will still benefit from a concerned effort to pre-smooth your surface, and wet sand 2nd & 3rd coats. And don't spare the paint as far as doing 3-4 coats goes. The deeper the painted surface, the more the pearlesence comes into play.

Mississippi Wrote:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I had just about settled comfortably into a niche, believing that MMud alone on a wall would suffice for any 1000 Lumen+ DLP HD-2 PJ with 2000:1 CR and HD resolution. And most others PJs as well when the Owner was not looking to go exotic.

Silver Screen w/ White Opal Pearlesence promises to be all that and more.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MMan, can you clarify this part? Are you saying MMud on a white primed wall is the way to go now? Skipping Silver metalic for DLP HD-2?

Also, are you saying you think this simple SS+25%Pearlescent can potentially beat MMud?

Thanks!
- Todd

Originally posted by Fatboy Roberts
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3993363#post3993363

Mixed it together in a 1 liter container. 3/4ths Behr SilverScreem, 1/4th Opal White Pearlescence. rolled it on.



Man, I gotta try this!!!

Originally posted by ToddMcF2002
Mississippi Wrote:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I had just about settled comfortably into a niche, believing that MMud alone on a wall would suffice for any 1000 Lumen+ DLP HD-2 PJ with 2000:1 CR and HD resolution. And most others PJs as well when the Owner was not looking to go exotic.

Silver Screen w/ White Opal Pearlesence promises to be all that and more.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


MMan, can you clarify this part? Are you saying MMud on a white primed wall is the way to go now? Skipping Silver metallic for DLP HD-2?


SM/MM was originally designed to boost CR and deliver as bright as a image as possible while doing so. Prior to that, HC screens boosted CR at the expense of everything else. The PJs in question that it was originally intended to help were all budget PJs, and all had under 1000 lumens and poor to modest CR.

The multiple layers of MMud on top added a few other benefits. SDE suppression, even more 3-Dimensionality than ME, and a purer, more saturated level of colors across the spectrum. It's properties, and it's difficulties in the creation of such, led to the development of the current and various Light Fusion applications. Lest you think it all part of a grand scheme, the decision to explore the mirror route was primarily to find a more "DIY'er friendly route than messin' with the gooey SM to create a highly reflective base.

Even the most recent developments in PJ technology, and the addition of new Models to consider has changed things as we knew of them, just since this last December. My statement was based on the fact that I more often utilize PJs in the $4000.00+ range, DLP PJs that have no real need for additional help as far as CR goes (...can't tell that to a CRT PJ owner though!!!) Their resolution is such that SDE seldom is an issue (...much smaller grid..) In short, the more you spend for a PJ, the less concern you should have on getting a quality image up on a screen. White is universally acclaimed as being "neutral" and there in is the choice for most who know nothing else.

If making a true mirror based Light Fusion screen w/MMud Top Coat isn't possible, but painting skills and other materials are not lacking, a SM/MM screen is a wonderful choice for a DIY screen, assuring you the brightest possible picture PLUS the best Contrast you can expect from a inexpensive PJ.

Light Fusion with a high end PJ is just plain stupendous, but if the painted mirror approach is not practical, MMud alone on a wall will satisfy 99% of all who experience it.

There are the differences, and the PJ selection is the determining factor.



Also, are you saying you think this simple SS+25%Pearlescent can potentially beat MMud?

As far as IMPROVING screen performance for a cheap PJ, the best yet least expensive DIY option appears to be Silver Screen itself, followed by SS & WOP on whatever. The screen shots of SS + WOP look to be so promising, I'm considering the mix on my next Mirrored LF screen. Why? To paraphrase a quote by Bill Clinton, "Because I can."

..............and we aint talking Cigars here either.......*

Who knows what to expect? But typin' don't get it done.

It will take a head to head comparison to define the real winner between them, and I'm sure that will happen fairly soon, given all the interest.

Until then, individual judgments based on available criteria can be made knowing there are different levels and varieties to choose from. As long as the price for performance get less, and not more, everybody benefits.

'Cept the Screen MFg.

:p

Can you take some screenies for us to see?

Would if I could. Alas, no digital camera. Sorry.

Just came back from HD with a quart of SilverScreen. Will be mixing soon!

I was just reading your other thread--I'm real interested to see how this mix stands up.

I'll definately get there. Keep an eye out for it. Thanks for the interest.

I posted this in another thread but seems to fit here better, FWIW.
Rob

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3934490#post3934490

I too just finished my 4th coat of SS + 1/4 WOP. I'll try to post screenshots in the next few days.

I'm a bit behind you. Two coats and I need to wetsand.

Originally posted by ToddMcF2002
I'm a bit behind you. Two coats and I need to wetsand.

Throughly soak that sponge, (it takes 2 - 5 minutes "floating") then squeeze as much water out of it as you can with several good squeezes. The sponge should be damp, and not leave what looks like a watery trail behind.

Wet sand with broad sweeping strokes that are applied with a "lay on the surface" pressure. Check the Sponge after 20- 30 strokes and see how evenly your receiving paint across the surface of the sponge, and adjust the pressure accordingly. You don't want to "Bulldoze" the surface with a heavy edge. If you can see scratches left behind you, you pressing too hard.

When the sanding surface of the sponge is evenly loaded with paint to the point you cannot see the "Gray" of the silicate, rinse (*scrub*) the surface clean, wring, and resume.

Smoothing is all you want, not gross removal of material. If you have a serious bump or ridge, apply specific attention to that one area until "ALMOST" even, then sweep across it and apply marginally harder pressure as you pass over it.

Simple, eh?

It's all common sense.

Oh yeah......, you should NEVER apply sanding to the final coat of a Flat finish. It may be flat, but that small degree of sheen that "smooth" adds helps give the image an added punch, but without any added glare. It's not a lot of difference, but at this stage, it's all cumlative. A lot of little, "It's done right." adds up to exemplary end results.

I'm going to go the same route as you guys for my 4805, but I have a few questions, as I've never really painted before.

What kind of roller do I use?
Is there a specific kind of sponge to use for the wetsanding?
I wetsand coats 1 & 2 and leave the 3rd?
Any other instructions?

I want to know what I'm doing before I ruin the paint job. Mississippi Man, I need your expertise here.

Thanks all,

Mark

Originally posted by Gentile
I'm going to go the same route as you guys for my 4805, but I have a few questions, as I've never really painted before.

What kind of roller do I use?
Is there a specific kind of sponge to use for the wetsanding?
I wetsand coats 1 & 2 and leave the 3rd?
Any other instructions?

I want to know what I'm doing before I ruin the paint job. Mississippi Man, I need your expertise here.

Thanks all,

Mark

If you've never done wet-sanding before (and neither have I), why not try two thin coats straight without sanding. Throw an image up there and see what it looks like. If you're not satisfied, then try wet-sanding that finish. Correct me if I'm wrong MM, but you can always go forward, but not back.

EDIT: I used a foam roller as indicated in my initial thread details. If you review the beginning of this thread, it describes my process. Not that it is optimal for you, but it is what I did to start out this rat race.

This weekend, it's on. I live with two women, (gf, and her best friend) and it's driving me insane. I need a project to burn off some pent up energy and frustration, adn it looks like its time to finally build my own screen.......

One Man's Insanity is Another's Man's Genius


Originally posted by Jcoffey
This weekend, it's on. I live with two women, (gf, and her best friend) and it's driving me insane. I need a project to burn off some pent up energy and frustration, adn it looks like its time to finally build my own screen.......

He lives with two women, married to neither, and they are best friends.

NOW THAT's a project whose logistics I'd like to explore!;)

On the wet sanding....

MississippiMan may kill me for saying this - but all I do is get sheets of water proof sand paper. I like 320 grit. I use alot of water - more the merrier, and use an orbital motion - keeping it random.

I did this on the SS/WOP mix and the Silver Metallic base coat for Light Fusion. Came out great.

Trust me MM, it's nowhere NEAR as fun and interesting as it sounds. THey both are on the same cycle, both only 22 fresh out of college, still act like high school kids, tons of drama between them,etc. Ya, it was a really good idea to fall for someone 8 years younger than me. Even better to let them both move in with me and distroy my bachlor pad and safe haven.LOL
Building a new screen will be a MUCH more enjoyable and exciting evening for me at this point......