Thanks for the info....

As of right now, I don't think it will be an issue since I got an order in with Circuit City, and should have my HR10-250 early next week. I have an installer coming out late next week to replace my Dual LNB dish with the Phase 3 dish.... I plan to purchase an OTA antenna and have him install that as well, and since I'll have my HDTivo in hands at the time, everything should be perfect!! (I hope)

One last question: Is there much difference between the Winegard MS2000 and the CM3000A? Would I even need an amplified signal being 20 miles most of the broadcast towers? or should the Winegard MS1000 work better?

Thanks again!

Normally, if you're that close to a bunch of TV transmitters, the amp will do more harm than good. I noticed on the Winegard website, they have a non-amplified model of the one you're looking at. Hopefully, if you get overload with the amplified model, the installer will be willing to exchange it for the non-amplified equivalent.
Good luck!

ABC News Now is now being multicasted on KXTV ABC channel 10-2. It is scheduled to remain on 24 hours a day until November.

Per this avs thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=427582) and the reference oakland tribune article the bay area will be getting the test broadcast Thursday of Fox Sports Net in HD on comcast.

Anyone with news of it coming to the valley ?

Based on commercials talking about high definition, showing NBC, ABC, & PBS logos and referencing A/Giant's games it would seem we are getting KVIE-DT and the FSN-HD sometime this year.... the question is when ?

Never mind. I thought 6-2 was in stretch-o-vision earlier tonight, but it's back to normal now.

Troy, hey hey good find I missed that one, we'll probably get them in time for Christmas! =) Hopefully sooner though.

From this mornings Sacramento Bee:

"Comcast announced that it will begin carrying certain Giants an A's baseball games in high-definition television, including tonight's Oakland A's at Texas Rangers game at 5 p.m. These HD games will pre-empt the regularly scheduled programs on INDemand HD2, carried on channel 192. For more information: (800) 824-2000."

What section did you see that in? I can't seem to find it.

It's in the "Scene" section; Page E6; "Tune In Tonight" column, all the way at the bottom.

--Bill R.

Thanks for the heads up. I recorded the game last night. The HD picture was great. Limited number of HD cameras, many replays were in SD.

Just wanted to post my success story...

I finally got my Silver Sensor antenna installed in my attic. This thing works great!!

Thanks to all of you that suggested I try it before anything else.

I am even getting KMAX 31-1 (about 60 signal strength) everything else is mid-90's!!

Oh, to be in a strong signal area like yours! I'm glad it works so well. KMAX 31-1 will be upping their power to 500 KW+ (from about 7 KW) in about a month.
Enjoy!

I don't know what the deal is, but at my location (Pocket area), I had to put a 10 dB attenuator at the input to my HD TiVo, or else it would not receive KMAX. Seems odd, considering their power level -- maybe they're aiming everything they've got right at my house? :)

--Bill R.

Does anyone know - for sure - if KCRA is going to be passing along the full NBC-HD Olympic programming? I tried emailing them using the page on the website, but that bounced (not a good sign!)

On a related note, I see that Olympic data is now starting to populate my HDTivo guide, but the listings for KCRADT are just showing the exact same thing as analog KCRA. Don't know if that is just bad guide data - or a bad sign about the availabilty of HD Olympic coverage in this area.

Tracey

How exactly does this work? If the local affiliate broadcasts a 1080i signal does this stop folks with non HDTV's from reading the signal? Or do they still get the 480 version somehow? Im wondering also how this will work with football. For instance when Monday nite football is broadcast in HD this year by ABC, does that mean I can tune to 13-1 to get the HD version? Or is there a chance they will just send an SD version?

Johnny

Johnny,

Firt of all - you will get the HD MNF - but you'd better tune to 10-1 (not 13-1!)

The HD signal is sent on a completely different frequency than the SD one. For example, KCRA is sent on 35 (Not 3) but the STBs, using the PSIP, will map it, so that you can just remember to tune to 3-1 to get it.

I have to admit, that for a non-top-10 market, I think we're really well served in this area. I'm just reading people's horror stories about their HD coverage and I'm concerned that I don't know for sure that we'll be getting HD Olympics. If I had to bet on it, I'd think yes - I have no real reason to doubt KCRA, they've been very good so far, but I'd like to know.

Tracey

Originally posted by carl033
Oh, to be in a strong signal area like yours! I'm glad it works so well. KMAX 31-1 will be upping their power to 500 KW+ (from about 7 KW) in about a month.
Enjoy!
The strong stations may be overloading your receiver preventing you from receiving KMAX. The attenuator is a smart way to eliminate the overload, allowing you to receive KMAX. This only works in a strong signal area, however.

KMAX should be at high power on our non-directional antenna in late September. High power is 850 KW. The date is looking pretty firm.

We will be airing some movies, locally, in HD. Included will be the Godfather package. No dates yet. These are not network movies. We will be televising them with our own equipment.

Bob Hess
Director of Engineering
KMAX

You know, I think I am the only person who has never seen the Godfather flicks, maybe this would give me a reason to finally experience them! Cool!

Tracey, thanks for your reply, that made sense. So basically it becomes up to the local affiliate if they want to pass on the HD version or not? I sent them a MSG via the "contact station" link on the web site, is that the one you tried? If I get a response I will let you know.

Johnny

AFAIK, the local NBC affiliates are able to decide how much HD Olympic coverage they transmit. I've seen some people talking about their locals only passing on 2-4 hours a day instead of the 8 that are provided. And, of course, we won't be eligible for the feed on D*.

Actually, if I can't get HD coverage of the Olympics, I suspect I won't be watching much at all. I'm not a huge fan, but the pretty pictures would probably grab my attention!

Tracey

Originally posted by Bob Hess
The strong stations may be overloading your receiver preventing you from receiving KMAX. The attenuator is a smart way to eliminate the overload, allowing you to receive KMAX.

Bob, that's an excellent point -- I don't know why I didn't think of that. Makes perfect sense though. In the analog world, it was easy to see when something was overloading the front-end ... with digital, not quite so easy.

Speaking of KMAX-DT, I was wondering if you could explain the rationale behind inserting the gray side-panels? Obviously it's to help prevent burn-in, but it really makes KMAX the "odd-man-out" since nobody else is doing it. Have you received a lot of feedback from people saying they like it?

--Bill R.

Originally posted by videojanitor
Bob, that's an excellent point -- I don't know why I didn't think of that. Makes perfect sense though. In the analog world, it was easy to see when something was overloading the front-end ... with digital, not quite so easy.

Speaking of KMAX-DT, I was wondering if you could explain the rationale behind inserting the gray side-panels? Obviously it's to help prevent burn-in, but it really makes KMAX the "odd-man-out" since nobody else is doing it. Have you received a lot of feedback from people saying they like it?

--Bill R.
The gray side panels do not have to be gray but we do believe that they could prevent burn-in on misadjusted sets. For now we are leaving them up unless you guys want "Stretch-o-Vision".

Bob

Originally posted by Bob Hess
The gray side panels do not have to be gray but we do believe that they could prevent burn-in on misadjusted sets. For now we are leaving them up unless you guys want "Stretch-o-Vision".

Bob

NOOOOOOOOO!

I can't even receive KMAX, yet, but still,

NOOOOOOOOO!

Tracey

Originally posted by Bob Hess
For now we are leaving them up unless you guys want "Stretch-o-Vision".

AAAAAAAA! No Stretch-O-Vision, please. :) I just spent a good amount of time convincing my buddies over at KXTV to bag their "stretch." If you're taking votes though, put mine in the "I don't like gray panels" column. Unless there is HD content, I prefer to tune to your analog channel to avoid them.

--Bill R.

When ESPN HD switched to using gray textured panels, I didn't like them either, but I've gotten used to them. I like it better than black - don't know why though. Might be fun to have them slowly move around - like a lava lamp :)

Off topic.

Anyone know anything about FX.? Like when/if Fox will make it HD?
Watching Nip/Tuck and Rescue Me would be damn nice in HD!

Anybody in Sac with ESPN HD able to watch the A's Yankees game right now? Both espn and espnHD report "Program not available in your area" on directv. Why would this be?

John

I suspect it's because Fox Sports Bay Area has the game. (654)

Okay - not available there either - whoops - no channels are available right now - D*'s problem or mine, I wonder?


CNN (202) is available, but FOX (360) isn't - hmmm, conspiracy, maybe?

Tracey

You are probably correct about "FSN Bay Area" -- I *am* receiving the A's/Yankees game on that channel (D* 654).

--Bill R.

Ok I found it there, somehow the search didnt show it there. Thanks for your reply. Too bad Its not in HD tho.

Johnny

I think my HDTiVo needs a reboot - I have great signal an everything, including OTA, but every channel comes as "Channel not available"

BTW - I don't think it was in HD on ESPNHD either - it's not listed on their site.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tvlistings/espnhd/index

Tracey

ETA - reboot seems successful - I can come down from the ceiling now - I think that's the first time HDTiVO's crashed on me - gave me quite a scare - these things don't seem the most reliable hard drives in the world

Originally posted by drunkpenguin
Anybody in Sac with ESPN HD able to watch the A's Yankees game right now? Both espn and espnHD report "Program not available in your area" on directv. Why would this be?

John

I'm up in Nevada City and the game is on Fox Sports Bay Area D* channel 654. I'm also getting it on D* ESPN analog channel 206 and HD channel 73. But don't feel bad - the feed is not HD. I just talked to my son in San Jose who also has D*. His ESPN feeds are blacked out like yours.
Blackout rules are sometimes hard to figure out. I'm classified as outside the Sacramento Grade B service area and that's why I think I'm getting the two ESPN feeds. Maybe someone else like me out in the boonies can confirm this also.

Originally posted by drunkpenguin
So basically it becomes up to the local affiliate if they want to pass on the HD version or not? I sent them a MSG via the "contact station" link on the web site, is that the one you tried? If I get a response I will let you know.

Johnny

Johnny, did you ever hear anything from KCRA? The email bounced for me. I've called and left messages at Programming and Engineering, but I' haven't heard anything.

You'd think this sort of information would be available somewhere online. I guess the affiliates that aren't passing on the signal would rather that we not find out - they're probably embarrassed :D

Tracey

The email went through ok, but I have not heard anything yet. This does not surprise me tho, you can't email anybody these days without waiting a week or 2 for a response. I'll probably get an answer when the Olympics are over :). Out o curiousity I checked the NBC page for L.A., it looks identical to KCRAs page, must be an NBC given template, anyway, they don't say anything in L.A. about broadcasting HD either, so we must be the only 2 people in the world wondering about this.

I guess we'll just have to watch and see.

Johnny

If we're the only 2 people wondering about this, it doesn't bode well for the numbers on HD viewership! Maybe it's a good thing Neilson doesn't count HD, the networks might decide USDTV or something like that might be a better use of their bandwidth.

Tracey

Which is really kind of sad, because sports are the 1 and only reason I went with HD. Movies I would generally rather see on DVD, and I could care less if reruns of "everybody loves raymond" ever make it to HD. I have been watching baseball for the first time in years, just to experience it in HD, so I will really be disappointed if the olympics are not given to us in HD.

Johnny

Well, the olympic opening ceremonies are now showing in my D* guide for KCRA 3-1 next friday and it does not have the HD symbol with it.

:(

Johnny

I'm getting ready to move into a new (to me) home near Hazel and Madison. In my current house(Arden area), I have a nice big outdoor antenna on the roof and have no problems recieving the local digital stations.

There is no antenna on the new place, and with everything else that will be happening in the near future on the house, I'm not excited about mounting a large antenna.

Does anyone know how well a silver sensor will work at that location? My second choice would be a UHF antenna in the attic, but the silver sensor would be soooo much easier!

Thanks for any feedback.

Jeff

Originally posted by drunkpenguin
Well, the olympic opening ceremonies are now showing in my D* guide for KCRA 3-1 next friday and it does not have the HD symbol with it.

:(

Johnny

KCRA passed the HD feed of the Olympics from SLC and they seem to pass everything else the network gives them, so I really don't see any reason to worry.

I am about a mile west of Hazel and 1/2 mile south of Madison. I get strong signals with an outside antenna mounted just above roof level at one corner of my house pointed at Walnut Grove though a gap in the trees south of me. I have the advantage that on a clear day (rare), at night, I can see the lights of the broadcast towers standing on my roof where the antenna is. Is your antenna going to be high enough to not have signals blocked by the terrain south west of you and the American river bluffs?

Originally posted by spwace
KCRA passed the HD feed of the Olympics from SLC and they seem to pass everything else the network gives them, so I really don't see any reason to worry.

That's very useful to know, spwace. I wasn't in this area, then, or into HD.

Worry is probably too strong a word, but I do like to plan in advance :)

Tracey

Originally posted by drunkpenguin
Well, the olympic opening ceremonies are now showing in my D* guide for KCRA 3-1 next friday and it does not have the HD symbol with it.

:(

Johnny

What is on the normal channel will not be what is on the HD channel, so you can't go by the guide info. Looking at the HD schedule on nbc.com, it looks like the opening ceremonies will be at 6p Pacific.

Here is a link (http://www.nbcolympics.com/tvlistings/5022020/detail.html) to the TV page.

KCRA has been really good about passing through NBC's HD (except that they didn't pass through the ED Widescreen version of the NASCAR race a few weeks ago) so I am not too worried yet either

KCRA does pass the HD don't they?

Am I missing what you two are talking about?

http://www.thekcrachannel.com/technology/3523978/detail.html seems to hint that.

OK, just called KCRA and a nice young lady went and asked and came back and said Yes...HD. She said the tech guys had a meeting this A.M, and they were talking about it.

Excellent! This was the info I was looking for.

Thanks,

Johnny

Thanks, MyGrain - I've called twice, and left messages, but didn't get an answer.
(Although, in their defence, I did miss a call from the 916 area code earlier today, I'm assuming it was KCRA, but they should have left a message)

This is excellent info, if the worst thing I have to do is set up manual records, I'll be a very happy couch potato.

Tracey

Originally posted by R. Boyce
Is your antenna going to be high enough to not have signals blocked by the terrain south west of you and the American river bluffs?

Thanks for the info Rory. I'm not sure yet, but it looks like I'm going to be sitting a little below the bluffs. Hopefully not too far down, tho. The house is just off of Phoenix, which sits a little low for really decent line of sight.

My plan is to start with a silver sensor, then work up from there.

I would like to see KVIE DTV limit channel capacity to 3 channels at most 0600 to 1800: 6.4 PBS You, 6.3 PBS Kids, 6.2 KVIE6, 6.1 OFF AIR. 1800 to 0600 6.2 KVIE6, 6.1 PBS HD. The duplication of programming on 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, and 6.4 is truly a waste of bandwidth and subjects all to unnecessary artifacts. As it stands with 6.1 and 6.2 only in operation PBS HD has unacceptable PQ with excessive artifacts. That is, when KVIE DTV is on the air.

I totally agree, Brad. I'm watching "The Real Olympics" as I type, and the artifacting is terrible.

You start the petition - I'll sign.

Tracey

Originally posted by tlrowley
Johnny, did you ever hear anything from KCRA? The email bounced for me. I've called and left messages at Programming and Engineering, but I' haven't heard anything.

You'd think this sort of information would be available somewhere online. I guess the affiliates that aren't passing on the signal would rather that we not find out - they're probably embarrassed :D

Tracey

Hi Tracey,
To you and all others interested, I just heard from the Director of Engineering at KCRA. He was a good customer of mine when I was selling video microwave equipment. Anyhow, he said that KCRA will be carrying the NBC HD Olympics feed 24/7 on channel 31-1. The FCC has waived the 75% simulcating rule to permit an uninterrupted feed.
Enjoy!

Carl

Originally posted by tlrowley
Johnny, did you ever hear anything from KCRA? The email bounced for me. I've called and left messages at Programming and Engineering, but I' haven't heard anything.

You'd think this sort of information would be available somewhere online. I guess the affiliates that aren't passing on the signal would rather that we not find out - they're probably embarrassed :D

Tracey

Hi again, Tracey. I goofed on the channel number in my previous response. KCRA's digital channel is 35, not 31. Depending on the PSIP grabbed by your set-top-box, it'll show up as either 35-1 or 3-1.

Carl

Carl,
So no 3.2? I ask because I 'm seeing mosaic of 58.1 w/o audio on 3.2.
Does that mean all bandwidth will be allocated to 3.1?

How would all of you feel about 6.1 going to 720p until some sort of fix?

Originally posted by brad 54
How would all of you feel about 6.1 going to 720p until some sort of fix?

6.1 is 720p during the day, with three additional sub-channels, and switches to 1080i, with one sub-channel, at 6pm.

I agree that KVIE needs to increase bandwidth to 6.1 HD feed. I see lots of motion artifacts during HD programming. I think even one more Mbps could be acceptable. Here's some numbers:

KCRA 3.1 - 16.86Mbps 1080i (During Leno HD)
KVIE 6.1 - 13.69Mbps 1080i (During SoundStage HD)
*KVIE 6.1 - 6.15Mbps 720p (During Sat Morning Pgm)
KXTV 10.1 - 11.76Mbps (During Sat Morning Pgm)
KOVR 13.1 - 14.80Mbps (During Sat Morning Pgm)
KTXL 40.1 - 16.14 Mbps (During Sat Morning Pgm)
KMAX 31.1 - Cannot receive on Fusion II
KQCA 58.1 - 15.52Mbps (During Sat Morning Pgm)

I'll try to get some readings on the other channels during HD feeds and report back.

Hammer

hey carl.. thanks for the update.. great info to know!


Johnny

Just let everybody know:

The pre-season Raiders/49ers game next Saturday is planed to be done in HD. The HD feed is being made available to KXTV. There are a number of problems that need to be overcome to air it on KXTV-DT. One major one is the fact that it will be in 1080i not 720P so KXTV will need to switch from 720P to 1080i for the game and back for HD ABC programming immediately following the game. Also the same HD digital satellite receiver will be used for the game and following ABC programming which means that it must be switched between satellites and between 1080i and 720P along with a number of parameter settings. We did a test using the HD up-link truck that will do the game yesterday and after much futzing around with settings got 1080i HD pictures at KXTV from them. At the end of the available satellite time there were still problems getting the audio. We think we know how to resolve that problem but at this time it appears that we will not again be able to do any testing until a couple of hours before the game. Therefor is it still an open question whether we will be able to do the game in HD. It may not happen. If it does happen, we do intend to either drop channel 10.2 entirely for the duration of the game or put up a fixed graphic at low bit rate indicating when 10.2 programming will be back. Either way the HD bit rate will be increased to at or near all that is possible.

WOOHOO!!! RIGHT ON!!! Wait.. i have to work that day... AHHHH!!!!!!!!!

nevermind.. its a night game! ill just miss kickoff. if you guys can get it in HD ill buy ya a beer!


go raiders!


Johnny

Originally posted by Rory Boyce
Just let everybody know:

The pre-season Raiders/49ers game next Saturday is planed to be done in HD. The HD feed is being made available to KXTV. There are a number of problems that need to be overcome to air it on KXTV-DT. . Either way the HD bit rate will be increased to at or near all that is possible.

Godspeed Rory !

Ahhhh{ screaming to the God of NFL} Let it be! Let it be! Raider /Niners in Hd! Let it be, let it be! Give the magic to KXTV!

Thanks!

..Scott
Raider Fan

Originally posted by spwace
6.1 is 720p during the day, with three additional sub-channels, and switches to 1080i, with one sub-channel, at 6pm.

A smooth 16:9 720p 6.1 1800 to 0600 as opposed to a choking 1080i is far more acceptable.

Perhaps 6.2 could be allocated additional bandwidth as long as it would not impair 6.1’s ability to provide clean pristine content 1800 to 0600. 6.2 present 1800 to 0600 is not the quality I would expect.

Or 6.4 PBSYou could remain up 24/7 if it wouldn't infringe on 6.1's ability to provide clean pristine content 1800 to 0600. It is also my opinion PBSYou content would be more viable and of service 1800 +.

I see no real reason to run 6.1 at all 0600 to 1800. Too much bandwidth allocated to duplicated programming. With all channels up (6.1, 6.2, 6.3, 6.4) all suffer from restricted bandwidth. 6.2 KVIE6, 6.3 PBSKids and 6.4 PBSYou 0600 to 1800 will serve the community well.

Let 6.1 be known for being HD and HD only.

It is my understanding VOOM pushes an average of 12mps for each of the 1080i HD channels. It is quite impressive. Now imagine what you should be able to do with a couple of more mps.

Excellent news regarding the up coming KXTV 49ers / Raiders game!!!

Thanks for the push.

Your efforts are greatly appreciated and anticipated.

Rory, why will this game be shot in 1080i? I thought ABC had always done live sports in 720p, at least the MNFs. I wish the HD broadcast will be a go and please give it as much bandwidth as possible since it is 1080i.

One other question, how is KXTV 10.1 passed on to Comcast? Since Comcast does not carry your 10.2 multicast subchannel, can I assume what they get will be at full bandwidth, regardless how much bandwidth you give over the air?

Originally posted by jacmyoung
why will this game be shot in 1080i? I thought ABC had always done live sports in 720p, at least the MNFs.

This game is being produced by KPIX (Channel 5), not ABC -- hence the different format.

--Bill R.

Originally posted by brad 54
Carl,
So no 3.2? I ask because I 'm seeing mosaic of 58.1 w/o audio on 3.2.
Does that mean all bandwidth will be allocated to 3.1?

How would all of you feel about 6.1 going to 720p until some sort of fix?

Hi again,
For quite awhile, KCRA and KQCA duplicated each other's programming on their digital channels. Both stations are owned by Hearst Argyle, and are programmed from adjacent studios in the KCRA building. Programming on 35.1 (3.1) was KCRA and on 35.2 (3.2) was KQCA. Conversely, on 46.1 (58.1) KQCA was simulcast and on 46.2 (58.2) was KCRA. For those of us in the fringe areas, this was kind of nice since digital channel 35 and 46 were not solid all the time.
In recent months, duplication of programming on the other channel has not been taking place. But the chief engineer did say that the non-stop Olympics coverage would be on 35.1 or 3.1 (depending on how your HD set-top-box recognizes it).
Stay tuned!

http://www.timesstar.com/Stories/0,1413,125~1502~2297378,00.html

I'll be old i think b4 D* broadcasts these to us, In Sac. But, if the KINGs move, maybe the Warriors will become this market?

Not that I wish that on native Sacramento folks.

I know the feeling.

Life long Raider fan.

Just sayin....


..Scott

Originally posted by MyGrain
http://www.timesstar.com/Stories/0,1413,125~1502~2297378,00.html

I'll be old i think b4 D* broadcasts these to us, In Sac. But, if the KINGs move, maybe the Warriors will become this market?

Not that I wish that on native Sacramento folks.

I know the feeling.

Life long Raider fan.

Just sayin....


..Scott

The games are available in HD in Sacramento on Comcast cable channel 192.

jacmyoung:

Comcast gets the same data stream via fiber that goes to the KXTV transmitter. They can choose to extract any part of it they want and put it on any channel they desire. Two HD compressors would be needed to give a full data rate HD feed to Comcast.

maybe a bit off topic, but i really wish sacramento would have done more for this stadium. i feel as a sports fans we should foot the bill, if we are not willing to that then the kings should leave. apparently kansas city is building a brand new beutiful arena, if the maloofs go there its paid for. its been fun riding the kings wave, but im pretty worried about all this.

Johnny

Originally posted by drunkpenguin
maybe a bit off topic, but i really wish sacramento would have done more for this stadium. i feel as a sports fans we should foot the bill, if we are not willing to that then the kings should leave. apparently kansas city is building a brand new beutiful arena, if the maloofs go there its paid for. its been fun riding the kings wave, but im pretty worried about all this.

Johnny
How much more. How much is this thing supposed to coast? Sac put a limit on it's spending towards it at over 100 million right? Do the Mallof think they shoold spend anything?

Originally posted by spwace
The games are available in HD in Sacramento on Comcast cable channel 192.

Well, yeah. But..

Though I'd like to indulge myself to that extent, I can't do D* and Comcast { though I am tempted to switch more and more..} Warrior games on FX sprts are blacked out here anyway.

Well, the city capped it at 175, but the entire project was going to cost 350. the maloofs are successful businessmen, they own half of vegas, but i don't think spending 175 of their own million would be a good move for them. They already spent 280 million to buy the kings. I just dont feel the city is supporting the team right now, the reason the rest of the world thinks Sacramento is a hick town, is because you fly into nothing but fields at the airport, then drive to arco, which is still in the fields, never even seeing sacramento. would have been nice to have a stadium in the heart of the city.

Anyway, this is probably not the place for this discussion, sorry if Im off topic.

Johnny

Originally posted by MyGrain
Well, yeah. But..

Though I'd like to indulge myself to that extent, I can't do D* and Comcast { though I am tempted to switch more and more..} Warrior games on FX sprts are blacked out here anyway.

I don't know if you are aware, to get the InHD and ESPNHD channels the minimum cost is $12.11 plus a $5 for the HD box from Comcast.

Originally posted by jacmyoung
I don't know if you are aware, to get the InHD and ESPNHD channels the minimum cost is $12.11 plus a $5 for the HD box from Comcast.

Well, we've the HD package from D*, and am in love with Discovery HD. But the thing is...ST is D* only so..I am staying. I don't know if Comcast had HDNET/ HD Movies but I am quite fond of those as well. Warrior games in Sac in HD could pull me to get a night job to afford both {WAF}, but then I'd miss the games anyway.. though..Kings market, Bay area Hoop=blackout.

Thing is, I have kinda always liked the Kings and all, but being from Santa Rosa, I am a die hard Warrior fan first.

{shrug}:D

Originally posted by spwace
The games are available in HD in Sacramento on Comcast cable channel 192.

I sent Dish Network an email asking if/when they might broadcast the HD signal from Fox Sports Bay Area (and the other regions' RSN's), but got a "We don't know" response. Are any of you 'in the know' with a little more of an idea when us satellite subs might see our local HD sports on FSN? I know it's mainly a bandwidth issue, but can't they utilize spotbeams to save some space, since the RSN's are a regional broadcast anyways?

That was an agreement between Fox Sports (Rainbow Media) and Comcast. This is exactly the type of content Comcast is attempting to bring...unique and "exclusive" content that you can't get from satellite.

From the satellite side, there are a good number of RSNs currently broadcasting games in HD, many more than bandwidth allows for. I'd wait for the bandwidth restrictions to be addresses before any HD-RSN is added to the lineup...

Jeff

Can anyone tell me what to expect as far as OTA in Yuba City? I live right smack in the middle of Sacramento and Chico.

I'm getting my Directv dish upgraded tomorrow and an OTA antenna.

Is it very hard to get waivers so I can just use the national feeds on D*?

Thanks,

Ian

CHEERLEADERS IN HD!!!

i love football! did anybody else watching the game tonight lose the signal a few times for a few seconds? i hope its not my antenna.

Johnny

ileff:

There is at least one reception report for Yuba city at:

http://www.hdtvpub.com/ if you look under Sacramento OTA

Originally posted by hammerdwn
...Here's some numbers:

KCRA 3.1 - 16.86Mbps 1080i (During Leno HD)
KVIE 6.1 - 13.69Mbps 1080i (During SoundStage HD)
*KVIE 6.1 - 6.15Mbps 720p (During Sat Morning Pgm)
KXTV 10.1 - 11.76Mbps (During Sat Morning Pgm)
KOVR 13.1 - 14.80Mbps (During Sat Morning Pgm)
KTXL 40.1 - 16.14 Mbps (During Sat Morning Pgm)
KMAX 31.1 - Cannot receive on Fusion II
KQCA 58.1 - 15.52Mbps (During Sat Morning Pgm)

More numbers:
KCRA 3.1 - 16.86Mbps (Leno HD)
KCRA 3.1 - 14.73Mbps (L&O C.I. HD)
KCRA 3.1 - 15.96Mbps(Crossing Jordan HD)
KVIE 6.1 - 13.69Mbps (Prime Time HD)
KXTV 10.1 - 12.05Mbps (Prime Time HD)
KXTV 10.1 - 12.83Mbps (MNF HD)
KOVR 13.1 - 14.80Mbps (Prime Time HD)
KTXL 40.1 - 16.14Mbps (FNS WS)
KMAX 31.1 - Cannot receive on FusionII
KQCA 58.1 - 16.62Mbps (Prime Time HD)

Strange how KCRA's HD bitrate changes from day to day. I wonder what to expect for the Olympics? Most of the others seem to remain constant during their HD broadcasts. KVIE is still the (1080i)looser, kinda funny considering PBS is supposed to be all about public service/arts/nature/etc.

Hammer

I don't see it mentioned here so I'll throw this out. I live near the Roseville / Rocklin border 1/2 mile from the Lowes / Home Depot at Fairway/Pleasant Grove. Tonight during the ABC-HD pre-season football game, I lost ABC. My signal strength on my Dish 811 (normally around 85-90%) slowly dropped until I lost the signal. I checked KCRA-3.1, which was also gone. I intermittently received FOX, and PBS was ok (still a 10-15% lower signal strength than normal). UPN-31 was at a higher (about 10% higher) signal strength than normal however. As the night went on, my signal strengths slowly climbed up to normal levels (maybe just slightly lower than average). I'm wondering if something atmospheric was going on, or if it's my system acting up. I'm using a CM 4221 on my roof, which has been great until this little episode - but looks like I'm ok again. Did anyone else notice any signal fade?

It was pretty hazy last night, either clouds or polution. My back yard was a golden color around 7 o'clock. Maybe this was why I lost signal a few times? I only get about 60% strength normally. Does anybody know how low a digital channel signal can go before you lose it?

Johnny

Possible causes: We are experiencing a higher amount of solar activity while it is also possible (an and/or situation) distant signals may be encroaching (stepping on due to bounce). With far more spectrum utilized than ever before with the introduction of DTV we may be inclined to see such anomalies.

For more: http://www.dxlc.com/solar/

Anybody have any new news on the CBS/Viacom/KOVR/KMAX/Sinclair story? I'm really itching to get CBS-HD on Comcast.... I really wish they could get this stuff worked out...

I recieved an email last week stating that they are trying to get KOVR online by football season, but it's a corporate deal. I wouldn't expect any movement, and wouldn't hold my breath for CBS until the analog Sinclair deal is set to expire.

There will be a few more locals coming online soon, but CBS doesn't appear to be one of them.

I was experiencing signal loss on several channels tonight sporadically. Pollution or solar activity would explain why it was over several channels. It did not happen often, but when it did it only lasted a few seconds. Kinda disconcerting that digital is so sensitive.

You may be seeing microwave fades on the stations studio to transmitter links. I.E. they may be transmitting it bad. Warm still summer nights often result in problems with the microwave paths from the Sacramento studios to the transmitters near Walnut Grove. Microwave fades generally only cause the picture to get noisy for the analog links but can cause brief digital dropouts.

This has me thinking, me signal is only 60%, but 90 percent of the time the picture quality is fine. Once in a while I get a breif video drop out. Should I consider some type of Antenna Amp?


Johnny

Rory, do you have any update on the Raiders/49ers game?

jacmyoung:

All I can say is we are going to try to do it in HD. There is still a number of unknowns at this time. We probably will not know if it all going to work until near to game time on Saturday. It may not have commercials in the HD broadcast. If we do put in spots there will probably be video glitches when going between the HD feed and our up-converter because our HD frame synchronizers are 720P only. I suspect you would not miss the commercials.

Hi All,

I have been lurking around this thread and think it's time to post after some reading. I recently bought my stb (an LG 3510A) and I am getting ready to setup. I am planning to install something in the attic and I think I am going with the silver sensor one as a starter. I will go from there if that does not work since I have read good things about it in this forum. I live in Elk Grove so I think I am pretty close to the towers in Walnut Grove (10-15 miles according to antenaweb.org and about 40 to KUVS-DT and ).I am really interested in KUVS since it will be my source for soccer although I don't know if they are broadcasting in HD yet. I have a few questions that I need help with:

1. Since I will be instatlling my antenna in the attic (don't want to install outdoor) and I have a tile roof and stucco walls Would this be a problem attenuating my reception?
2. When installing in the attic should I just put my antenna in the base of the attic or as high as I can?
2. Also KUVS angle is about 100 deg off from the others so does that mean that I will have to rotate my antenna every time I want to watch.

I have a 4-bay bowtie (CM 4221) in my attic in Woodland. My walls are wood and the roof is composition shingle.

I mounted the antenna at about mid-height in the attic (to allow rotation, which was not necessary).

With the HD-Tivo, I am getting all the Sacramento signals in the 90-95 range (except for KMAX ,which is not at full power. It's at 85-87). KUVS comes in at 90-92, with no antenna rotation.

The CM 4221 is larger than the silver sensor, but is priced about the same.

Thanks Rory, I hope everything goes smoothly. A game without commercial cuts would be interesting to see.

Today at 12:30p KCRA 3.1 ran a short 3/2 channel audio test. It was in 16X9, had a large Dolby graphic, and said something about NBC National signal... It displayed a different graphic for each channel it was testing, and had a note about stereo broadcasters will hear test signals from L & R channels only. It ran through Front L, Front R, Center, Rear L, and Rear R.

The test ran right in the middle of "The KCRA Experience" (News @ Noon). It was like the engineers had no idea it was coming, because it literally broke into the news cast.

During the test I only heard audio signals from L & R on my receiver which showed DPLII at the time. After the test the screen went black for about 2 minutes, before the engineers realized what happened and switched back to "The KCRA Experience".

This may have been some kind of audio test for the Olympics. Is the Olympics supposed to be 5.1? Does this mean that KCRA is not prepared for 5.1 and we will only get L & R stereo? Or were they just not ready to throw some switch that passes the 5.1?

Unfortunately I could not get to my computer quick enough to record it with my Fusion:(

Hammer

I live in Yuba City, and today the D* guys setup my HD dish/reciever/ota mounted to my arbor (12 feet high?).

I can get CBS HD (13-1) KOVR HD, 45% signal. But when my Samsung 360 does a channel scan it doesnt find any NBC HD or ABC HD channel.

Im not sure if they really pointed the antenna very acurately, maybe Ill try turning it and see what happens tomorrow.

Here is what it did find today:

3-1 kcra-dt
13-1 kovr-hd
13-2 kovr-sd
19-1 kuvs-dt
31-1 kmax-1
40-1 ktxl-dt
40-2 ktxl-dt
58-1 kqca-dt
58-2 kqca-sd

Think I just need to fine tune the antenna aim or am i too far?

Thanks,

Ian

Ooops nevermind..... I'm an HD OTA newbie, doh!

I was watching the end of KCRA local news on 3-1 and when they switched to Leno, bam awesome HD. woooohooooo... I thought local news would be HD. My strength on KCRA ranged from 45-70

Tonight Ill try to figure out ABC.

Fox doesnt broadcast in HD yet, right?

Thanks,

Ian

Fox will be HD in the fall, but it is broadcasting at 720p now (40-1). It's content is upconverted 480p, though.

Welcome to HD!

Tracey

Bless their hearts - KCRA was right on the ball, switching to HD right at 8pm. Reading some of the horror stories in the HD programming forum, I just wanted to send kudos KCRA's way.

And 5.1 to boot.

Fine job, guys

Tracey

Yep, 5.1 and about 16.16Mbps tonight. Barely notice some motion blocking only in very high motion objects.

Hammer

I thought they were running at a higher rate, than normal - 3-2 seems to be off the air, the more bits the better.

Tracey

I will wait till the opening ceremony. Thousands of waving flags can be really hard on the bandwidth squeeze and I don't know if 1080i at 16mbps would be enough.

I remember in 2002 games they started off with multicasting but after the complaint changed to full band and solved the microblocking issue.

I'm seeing the same program (2002 Winter Olympic highlights) on 3-1 and 3-2. Why not just turn off 3-2 and send more mbps to 3-1?

9:00 p.m. and we're back to Greece, but still with both 3-1 and 3-2 showing the same signal.

That's odd Bill, my Sony TV (yes, the one in the silly commercial - arggggh) can't find 3-2 - I just get "no signal". But my HDTivo seems to find it, but as you say, it's the same as 3-1. I wonder if the TiVo just grabs whatever it does find if a subchannel's not there??

Tracey

Maybe. I'm watching with a Tivo. One commercial over and over. And the definition of the crowd below the apartment is not exactly "High."

I think I'll sit with the computer for ten minutes so I can skip the next few commercials.

NBC begins its commercial break asking me to watch "today's" coverage on my SD affiliate. They just don't get it. Why would I watch that blurry stuff when I can wait 24 hours and see it as if I was (almost) there?

Quick edit:
Directv channel 84 is now live at 10:15 p.m. The HD Olympic NBC feed is delayed behind the local OTA feed, but it's there!

Another edit:
By Saturday morning, the KCRA-DT feed and the NBC Directv feed (ch 84) were sychronized.

Is anyone else getting "glitches" on the feed from the opening ceremony?

My signal strength is pegged at 100, but the glitches come every few minutes.

I agree: the plug for the SD coverage is a joke.

I'm getting glitches every so often also. I bet it's not KCRA. Neither my Fusion nor my Dish6000 are seeing a second subchannel, but when the signal is analyzed there are two video streams and one audio stream.

3.1 - 16.22Mbps (87.72%)
3.2 - 1.37Mbps (7.40%)
Audio - 348kbps (1.84%)

Hammer

I'm just having some overall weird video problems. I noticed it originally on the digital setup in the living room across all sources (Voom/OTA/DVD players connected to a plasma) starting a couple of days ago with a slight up and down bouncing to the picture (inluding program guide and set up menus), noise in the background and wavy 'heat' lines so I was going to start pulling things apart and check for ground loop (even through nothing has been changed in the last few weeks), but I just turned on my home office TV (analog using rabbit ears) and it's got the same problems but much worse (it's bouncing like crazy and none of the stations are watchable). I wonder if it's from either what Rory Boyce or brad 54 mention or something else (specific to my house).

Waitasec- I just remembered that about a block or so away one of those radar signboards that tell you what your speed is when you drive by it was installed (this type):


http://www.roadtraffic-technology.com/contractor_images/alltraffic/image_1s.jpg

This might be a stupid question but does anyone know if that could be causing my video interference problems?

Any update if the Raiders/9ers game will be in HD or not tonight? We are trying to decide whos house to watch the game at.

Johnny

Originally posted by drunkpenguin
Any update if the Raiders/9ers game will be in HD or not tonight? We are trying to decide whos house to watch the game at.

Johnny

Decisions decisions!

I'm watching it here! :-}

The Autum wind is a pirate....

Residing in Turlock I get KSSE and KCRA's feeds. KSEE's 24.1 is HD 720p and 24.2 is SD (not the same feeds). KCRA's 3.1 is HD 720p with nothing on 3.2. Lots of drops, audio problems... Why can't we get a 1080i feed since 3.2 is not being utilized?

NBC's HD hype has not panned out so far. An endless loop, if you will. And the Sony commercials are and will have a negative impact. The same spot over and over and over. Why so many breaks?

The opening of the Olympics is spectacular. Let it run. Run breaks at the half.

Why isn't NBC's BravoHD+ showing the Olympics? BravoHD+ is another endless loop.

I'm just disappointed.

Originally posted by ileff
I live in Yuba City, and today the D* guys setup my HD dish/reciever/ota mounted to my arbor (12 feet high?).

I can get CBS HD (13-1) KOVR HD, 45% signal. But when my Samsung 360 does a channel scan it doesnt find any NBC HD or ABC HD channel.

Im not sure if they really pointed the antenna very acurately, maybe Ill try turning it and see what happens tomorrow.

Here is what it did find today:

3-1 kcra-dt
13-1 kovr-hd
13-2 kovr-sd
19-1 kuvs-dt
31-1 kmax-1
40-1 ktxl-dt
40-2 ktxl-dt
58-1 kqca-dt
58-2 kqca-sd

Think I just need to fine tune the antenna aim or am i too far?

Thanks,

Ian

Hi Ian,
The digital channels from Sacramento you're missing are:
6-1 through 6-4 KVIE hd and sd channels (not on full time)
19-1 and 19-2 KUVS sd
10-1 KXTV hd
10-2 KXTV ABC Now (24-7 news in sd)

Orientation is sometimes critical even though all the above except KUVS are at Walnut Grove. To get any Bay Area or Chico-Redding digital channels, you'll need a rotator.

Regards,
Carl in Nevada City

At this point it looks like the game will not be in HD on KXTV. Encoder settings in the up-link truck that work for KPIX do not work for KXTV and vise-versa. Since KPIX is the lead broadcaster in this, they come first, which means KXTV can not get the digital feed.

Originally posted by R. Boyce
At this point it looks like the game will not be in HD on KXTV. Encoder settings in the up-link truck that work for KPIX do not work for KXTV and vise-versa. Since KPIX is the lead broadcaster in this, they come first, which means KXTV can not get the digital feed.

Huh?

{sobbing}

tha-tha-that's snot fare!

{shrug}

;-]

..Scott

Looks pretty good right now- not HD, but very nice picture. Would have been nice to see it in HD, but we'll live :)

ccallana,

How can you be so calm - don't you know that it's the end of the world if we should happen to miss something we wanted to see in HD. Where's the ranting, and raving? Not even any expletives?

Sorry, I guess I've been spending too much time reading the HD Olympic threads!

Thanks for trying, Rory, I'm sure you all would have liked a different outcome.

Tracey

I'm a calm guy by nature :) I've avoided the HD Olympic threads... I am disappointed by NBC's treatment, but I'm not getting tied in a wad over it ;)

-Chris

I think avoiding the HD Olympic threads is probably a good idea - there are some majorly unhappy people there - and you need to watch your step - as our own drunkpenguin can testify (hi, Johnny!)

I can't believe people can get their knickers in such a twist over TV - some perspective might help them! If NBC's delayed Olympic coverage is the worst thing in their lives, they ought to be mighty happy people.

Tracey
(who's calmly waiting to record the HD coverage starting at 1am, and very excited to get it)

Originally posted by brad 54
Residing in Turlock I get KSSE and KCRA's feeds. KSEE's 24.1 is HD 720p and 24.2 is SD (not the same feeds). KCRA's 3.1 is HD 720p with nothing on 3.2. Lots of drops, audio problems... Why can't we get a 1080i feed since 3.2 is not being utilized?

What are you seeing that indicates it is in 720p? Everything I have seen shows it is in 1080i on KCRA.

Did anybody watch the Raiders/9ers game on 31-1? I lost signal many many times. I'm wondering if its my reception on that channel.

Johnny

Originally posted by drunkpenguin
Did anybody watch the Raiders/9ers game on 31-1? I lost signal many many times. I'm wondering if its my reception on that channel.

Johnny

KMAX is still running very low power. When you got it, was it in HD? The feed on 10-1 wasn't. In the Bay Area, 2-1 was in SD and 5-1 was in HD.
Carl

I saw a little bit of the game on 31-1 -- it wasn't HD. However, in the brief amount of time that I was tuned in (less than a minute), I did see two instances of digital freezing/blocking ... not sure if that was a reception issue, or something in the feed they were receiving. This may or may not be the same thing that Johnny (aka: drunkpenguin) was talking about.

--Bill R.

Originally posted by videojanitor
I saw a little bit of the game on 31-1 -- it wasn't HD. However, in the brief amount of time that I was tuned in (less than a minute), I did see two instances of digital freezing/blocking ... not sure if that was a reception issue, or something in the feed they were receiving. This may or may not be the same thing that Johnny (aka: drunkpenguin) was talking about.

--Bill R.

It was a reception issue and has nothing to do with whether it was 480p, 720p or 1080i.
Carl

Carl,

I think maybe I confused the issue. What I wanted to do first was answer your question as to whether or not the game was in HD on 31-1.

The second thing was just to mention that I saw some digital breakup during the brief period that I tuned in -- but I'm not sure when I implied that this might have something to do with any particular transmission format. What I *was* suggesting is that it's possible the breakup was INCOMING to KMAX -- that is, if they took this off a digital satellite feed, this kind of problem is not uncommon.

--Bill R.

Im in Yuba City, D* just setup an Winegard Sensar II OTA to a Samsung 360 reciever.

I have no trouble tuning in 3-1 & 13-1, but 10-1 seems to be much more difficult. Is 10-1 also from Pleasant Grove?

Initially I got 40-1, but yesterday I couldnt get it at all no matter where i pointed the antenna??

Maybe something else is wrong other than the aim. The signal strength meter on my samsung bounces from 45 to 0, sometimes up to the 70s. Im only 25-30 miles from Pleasant Grove, shouldnt this be pretty solid up in the 90s??

Thanks,

Ian

Originally posted by ileff
Im in Yuba City, D* just setup an Winegard Sensar II OTA to a Samsung 360 reciever.

Maybe something else is wrong other than the aim. The signal strength meter on my samsung bounces from 45 to 0, sometimes up to the 70s. Im only 25-30 miles from Pleasant Grove, shouldnt this be pretty solid up in the 90s??

Thanks,

Ian

It's in Walnut Grove (South Sac Co), not Pleasant Grove. You're a little ways from those transmitters :)

Dan

Originally posted by videojanitor
Carl,

I think maybe I confused the issue. What I wanted to do first was answer your question as to whether or not the game was in HD on 31-1.

The second thing was just to mention that I saw some digital breakup during the brief period that I tuned in -- but I'm not sure when I implied that this might have something to do with any particular transmission format. What I *was* suggesting is that it's possible the breakup was INCOMING to KMAX -- that is, if they took this off a digital satellite feed, this kind of problem is not uncommon.

--Bill R.

Hi Bill,
Bob Hess is the chief engineer at KMAX, and he checks this forum every so often. He can confirm whether the telecast was in HD.
As far as digital breakup is concerned, there are a number of possibilities:
incoming to KMAX, problems with their digital STL feed or propagation anomalies between their transmitter and you. I watch lots of CBS HD on D*, and there are usually one or two breakups of their digital feed per program. No telling where it comes from. S**t happens!
Carl

Originally posted by ileff
Im in Yuba City, D* just setup an Winegard Sensar II OTA to a Samsung 360 reciever.

I have no trouble tuning in 3-1 & 13-1, but 10-1 seems to be much more difficult. Is 10-1 also from Pleasant Grove?

Initially I got 40-1, but yesterday I couldnt get it at all no matter where i pointed the antenna??

Maybe something else is wrong other than the aim. The signal strength meter on my samsung bounces from 45 to 0, sometimes up to the 70s. Im only 25-30 miles from Pleasant Grove, shouldnt this be pretty solid up in the 90s??

Thanks,

Ian

Ian,
I agree with Dan. Walnut Grove is 25 miles south of Sacramento. Propagation between you and there is likely to be quite variable. There are miles and miles of rice patties. Moisture plus heating and cooling of the air each day produce all kinds of parpagation anomalies. Here in Nevada City, I see tremendous fluctuations in signal levels from Walnut Grove.
Solid digital HD network feeds via satellite from CBS, NBC and Fox will be on next month. You should be eligible for these via D*, E* or V*. If at first you are denied by one or more, you can go the waiver route.
Good luck,
Carl

Thanks for the info guys,

I did apply for waivers from all four networks through d*, but they said it takes 30-45 days to hear back.

So they all broadcast from the same tower, funny how nbc and cbs work but i cant get abc. I was doing some searches and I ran across one guy saying the samsung recievers have trouble with the high frequencies (channel 10 uses 61....) hmmmmm.....

Thanks,

Ian

Originally posted by ileff
Thanks for the info guys,

I did apply for waivers from all four networks through d*, but they said it takes 30-45 days to hear back.

So they all broadcast from the same tower, funny how nbc and cbs work but i cant get abc. I was doing some searches and I ran across one guy saying the samsung recievers have trouble with the high frequencies (channel 10 uses 61....) hmmmmm.....

Thanks,

Ian

If you got your Samsung box from D* as part of their $99 HD promotional offer, call them and tell them it's not working properly. They'll take it back in exchange for (hopefully) a Hughes HTL-HD. My son and I have had both, and we feel the Hughes box is superior.
Carl

Originally posted by carl033
Hi Bill,
Bob Hess is the chief engineer at KMAX, and he checks this forum every so often. He can confirm whether the telecast was in HD.
As far as digital breakup is concerned, there are a number of possibilities:
incoming to KMAX, problems with their digital STL feed or propagation anomalies between their transmitter and you. I watch lots of CBS HD on D*, and there are usually one or two breakups of their digital feed per program. No telling where it comes from. S**t happens!
Carl
The game was not in HD.

We did not have any problems with the incoming feed and we did not have any transmission problems.

- Bob

Originally posted by hammerdwn
I'm getting glitches every so often also. I bet it's not KCRA. Neither my Fusion nor my Dish6000 are seeing a second subchannel, but when the signal is analyzed there are two video streams and one audio stream.

3.1 - 16.22Mbps (87.72%)
3.2 - 1.37Mbps (7.40%)
Audio - 348kbps (1.84%)

Hammer

The HD swimming games showed visible artifacts on the splashes. Why didn't KCRA give the Games full bandwidth?

Boy, are you so right! The events on KCRA are really pixellized. The Dish Network HD feed is so much better. And the 5.1 on KCRA seems to be simulated, not getting any rear channels like I am on the Dish feed.

Hammer

I'm on Comcast and have noticed the volume on KCRA-DT (185) is very very low - I have to keep changing volume levels between it and KCRA-3 - is this Comcasts problem, or KCRA?

KCRA OTA Olympics are pixelated when any fast action occurs. Even when NBC rolls the Olympic rings logo across the screen, those are pixelated! They are going to give HD a bad name. How can they expect to wow consumers with HD when there is pixelization? Sports are one good reason to adopt HD and that is where fast action occurs.
Does anyone really know if this is a lack of dedicated bandwidth issue?
If dedicate full bandwidth would the pixelization go away is my question?

It most definitely is a bandwidth related issue. Even the Dish Network HD Olympic channel has minor motion pixellation and they are supposedly running it at 22Mbps. So if KCRA were to give us their max (~18Mbps) you would still see pixellation, it just would not be as bad as it is now.

Hammer

Hammer,
Do you really think 1 1/2 mb more bandwidth will make a difference?

I am surprised there would still be pixelization in bandwidth that is fully allocated. Seems that if at full bandwidth and pixelation/pixelization (sp?) still exist then there is a problem with the ATSC HDTV format.

Where does Dish get their NBC feed from? Don't they take the local KCRA broadcast and just rebroadcast it? I would think if you see the pixelization in the KCRA OTA broadcast you would also see it in Dish's rebroadcast of KCRA.
Bryan

KCRA and Dish Network get the material from the same source, which is the NBC National HD feed. Supposedely the National HD feed is running at ~44Mbps.

I do think that there would be a discernable difference if KCRA sent out 18Mbps. It would only be a minor improvement though. It's more the principle that there is a subchannel sitting there doing nothing.

I agree that with the ATSC standards, sports is best captured and rebroadcast in 720p because you don't see the pixellation at 60fps.

Hammer

Hammer,
I would imagine that even a 720p low bandwidth broadcast would suffer picture quality as well. It just may not manifest itself as a pixelation.

Is the dish HD a national NBC HD feed and not a local KCRA feed unlike the Dish NTSC channels? So are the commercials either national spots or are blank?
Bryan

You can go with a lot lower bandwidth with 720p. From what I've noticed on ESPN-HD (Dish), it makes the pixels kinda shift back and forth, or faces become like clay. Hard to describe...

During the Olympics the content that you see on KCRA-DT is identical to what Dish Network HD is showing, unless KCRA cuts into the national feed for a top of the hour local commercial or news insert. Dish network is even letting all the National NBC ads for their new fall shows like Hawaii and LAX through. The national feed allows for locals to cut in by showing the "Athens fly-over" loop over and over... and over.

Hammer

Hi All,

I just thought I shared my success story. I finally fisnihed my HD setup. I have and LG LST-3510A and a Silver Sensor antenna sitting on top of my Mits 48-413. I get pretty good results as expected since I am about 13 miles from most towers.

KXTV-DT
KTXL-DT
KVIE-DT
KSPX-DT
KQCA-DT
KOVR-DT
KMAX-DT
KCRA-DT
KUVS-DT (Marginal reception. Maybe when I move the antenna to the attic it will improve)

I do not get the follwing channels though. KTFK-DT ; KTNC-DT ; KSPX-DT. I believe the first one is Telefutura (spanish) and the second is Azteca America (spanish too). I am not too concerned about them right now but I would like to get them to watch soccer games in the future. I don't even know if these spanish stations are transmitting HDTV. KUVS, which is the biggest one, is not so I am assumming the others aren't either. As far as PAX I have not tried again since the first time. All I probably need to do is some minor adjustment. I have a one story home with no major obstructions by the way. I am pretty happy with hte new resolution. I truly feel like I am watching thru a window when on HDTV. Sweeet. Ok now let 's enhoy some HDTV.

Enterprise will be delayed tonight (Friday) due to a baseball game. We are taping Enterprise in HD and will be playing back the tape after the game.

Bob Hess
Director of Engineering
KMAX

Originally posted by Bob Hess
Enterprise will be delayed tonight (Friday) due to a baseball game. We are taping Enterprise in HD and will be playing back the tape after the game.

Bob Hess
Director of Engineering
KMAX

Thanks for the info, Bob. Also, a quick question. With FSN now broadcasting their Giants home games in HD, is there any chance of the KMAX et al beginning carriage of the other Giants home games?

Thanks for all the great info you pass on here!

Man the feed from Oakland looks terrible tonight. Reminds me of what analog tv used to look like.

Hammer

EDIT: Doh... someone must have been listening up there:D Picture mysteriously fixed itself.

Originally posted by nightowl
With FSN now broadcasting their Giants home games in HD, is there any chance of the KMAX et al beginning carriage of the other Giants home games?

Thanks for all the great info you pass on here!

We're very interested in airing HD baseball. Will not happen this year, however.

Bob

Originally posted by nightowl
That was an agreement between Fox Sports (Rainbow Media) and Comcast. This is exactly the type of content Comcast is attempting to bring...unique and "exclusive" content that you can't get from satellite.

From the satellite side, there are a good number of RSNs currently broadcasting games in HD, many more than bandwidth allows for. I'd wait for the bandwidth restrictions to be addresses before any HD-RSN is added to the lineup...

Jeff

I'm not sure if I'm posting in the right thread. My friend lives in Riverbank just north of Modesto in Stanislaus County and is served by Charter Cable. He saw the Giants on FSN HD via Comcast while visiting the bay area and wants to know if there is any way to get it through Charter. I'm not sure what to tell him. If this is an exclusive deal with Comcast then is the answer a definite no?

Can someone tell me what content/channels are carried in HD on Charter for Riverbank? I do know that he is in a brand new housing development and is able to get 3mb high speed internet but I don't know anything about what HD offerings are available and the Charter website has next to nothing.

I brought an over the air/DirectTV HD combo receiver over to his house and had little problem receiving signal from the Walnut Grove Towers using a small antenna, but before I tell him to get an OTA/DirecTV combo box (with one year contract), want to check to see if HD via cable is an option and if it is then FSN HD would sway things toward cable as that's obviously not an option on DirecTV.

Any feedback is appreciated.

Also, does anyone know if the Charter DVR with two tuners is available in Stanislaus County? Does Charter offer a HD DVR?

This may be slightly off topic but if you have a rotor to get the best HDTV reception FYI: I live in Rocklin 1 mile from Roseville. Changing antenna angle to Sutter Butte I can get Chico channels 12 & 30. Most of the blacked out Raiders games against an AFC team will be on channel 12. If the Raiders play an NFC team it will be on channel 30. Channel 12 gets the best reception but channel 30 is very watchable.

This may be slightly off topic but if you have a rotor to get the best HDTV reception FYI: I live in Rocklin 1 mile from Roseville. Changing antenna angle to Sutter Butte I can get Chico channels 12 & 30. Most of the blacked out Raiders games against an AFC team will be on channel 12. If the Raiders play an NFC team it will be on channel 30. Channel 12 gets the best reception but channel 30 is very watchable.

Originally posted by jb43
This may be slightly off topic but if you have a rotor to get the best HDTV reception FYI: I live in Rocklin 1 mile from Roseville. Changing antenna angle to Sutter Butte I can get Chico channels 12 & 30. Most of the blacked out Raiders games against an AFC team will be on channel 12. If the Raiders play an NFC team it will be on channel 30. Channel 12 gets the best reception but channel 30 is very watchable.

Also, if you have the D* national feeds, the Raider games are almost always shown on channels 381 (KCBS) and 389 (KTTV), both from Los Angeles.

How did you get the national feeds? I can't get waivers from anybody in Sac. My antenna won't pick up chico stations. :(


Johnny

Originally posted by drunkpenguin
How did you get the national feeds? I can't get waivers from anybody in Sac. My antenna won't pick up chico stations. :(


Johnny

Hi Johnny,
If you are in the Grade A coverage of the Sacramento stations, It'll be difficult. You'd have to prove your standard outdoor antenna on a ten-foot mast cannot deliver an acceptable picture.
In the Grade B coverage area farther out, it doesn't take much terrain shielding and/or multipath to result in bad reception.
Outside Grade B, they usually look at your zipcode, but if it would normally deny you of a waiver, and you truly have bad reception, asking for a test will probably get you the national feeds.
Good luck.

My reception is awesome. :( I'm just trying to figure out how to get around blacked out games. A few local bars will show the games during blackout, does anybody know how they pick them up?

Maybe I'll get lucky this year and every game will sell out on time. Gannon sure does look better!

Johnny

Originally posted by drunkpenguin
My reception is awesome. :( I'm just trying to figure out how to get around blacked out games. A few local bars will show the games during blackout, does anybody know how they pick them up?

Maybe I'll get lucky this year and every game will sell out on time. Gannon sure does look better!

Johnny

My gut feel is that the bars showing blacked-out games may have an agreement with D* or E*, or they have traded STBs with a private individual or another bar outside the blackout area. Next time you visit one of these bars, see if you can get a station ID off the channel carrying the game. It will probably be a Los Angeles station (KCBS for games where the visiting team is in the AFC or KTTV for NFC away teams). D* now has Chico local channel service, so the ID you pick up may be either KHSL (AFC) or KCVU (NFC). If the STB is out in the open, check out whose it is (D* or E*). The bartender may share some info with you as long as you're discrete.

I would say it's more likely the box is subscribed outside the blackout area even though the box may be sitting in the Sacramento DMA. Are the Chico locals subject to the blackout rules: KHSL (AFC) or KCVU (NFC)? If not, then if your DirecTV service address is in the Chico-Redding DMA then you would receive the games obviously.

It's very likely that the bars are using a service address in the Chico-Redding area or another market (not their actual address), or getting the distant networks from NY & LA by again using a qualifying address outside the Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto DMA (or via waivers). The NY & LA distant networks are on the national beam at 101 and any subscriber will see them listed in their channel lineup at channels 380-389. The Chico-Redding locals would require that you be underneath the spotbeam in order to receive the signal. So far that spot beam has not been mapped (since the satellite went up only recently) but it likely covers a good portion of Northern California and probably all of Sacramento.

Anyone receiving Chico-Redding locals from DirecTV? It's one of the missing markets from the project to map the satellite 119 transponders and spot-beams. See:

http://www.dbsforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36914

If you receive Chico-Redding locals from DirecTV, could you post the transponder? It's simple to check, just tune to one of your local channels, and then goto check signal strength screen to see what transponder it is on. It's best to check this for each local channel, because in some markets they are being sent from multiple transponders (for example Monterey-Salinas). Once we know what transponder they are on (either 23, 25, 29, or 31) then Raiders fans can check their signal strengths and may decide to "move" their service to Chico (or outside Sacramento) on Sundays in the same way that the bars do it.

Here is a link to data that is being input to compile the spot beam map for the new 7s satellite:

http://www.ulna.net/mapserver/dtv/view.html

Here is what a completed spot beam map looks like for the satellite 101 transponder which is where the Sacramento, SF, LA, and San Diego locals have been carried for some time now - Sacramento is on transponder 4 (purple ring):

http://www.scottandmichelle.net/scott/spots1.png

The new 119 satellite (7s) carries Chico-Redding, Reno, Monterey, Fresno, Bakersfield, Santa Barbara, and Las Vegas. The beams are likely tighter in diameter than those at 101.

Are any of you receiving channel 40-1 lately? I have a Dish 811 receiver, OTA, and never had a problem with 40-1. For the last 4-5 days, I haven't received the channel. I get an 85% signal reading, but just a black screen. Is everyone else having this problem also?????

No problem here. I've got an HD TiVo and it's coming in fine.

--Bill R.

Thanks, I figured it out.....something was going on with my 811, and I was getting both 55-1 , 55-2...and 40-1, 40-2..... It was a little weird glitch, but I got it fixed.

Originally posted by bralli
I don't see a good Sacramento thread. I am setting up my HR10-250 (High Definition Tivo) next week and would love to hear some reports. I am actually in Roseville (95678) about 35 miles from the towers (all located in the same direction). I live in a very suburban neighborhood with CC&R's that prohibit rooftop antenna's (I know, I could fight that if I want...). I opted for the Winestar Squareshooter (which should be fairly unobtrusive). I will mount it on the roof of my two story house right above the living room so the cable will only run about 20 ft. Do you guys think I will still need an amplifier?

Don't sweat the CC&Rs! If your signals with the Squareshooter are not reliable, just put up a medium-sized Radio Shack VHF/UHF antenna on a 10-foot mast, and aim at Walnut Grove. Federal law now pre-emps local CC&Rs, and your homeowners association cannot prevent you from putting up a modest outdoor antenna. If you'd feel better, contact the representative of the association, and let him or her know what you plan to do. Don't ask for permission - it is no longer necessary.
Good luck,
Carl

Getting black screen, no audio, no gray sidebars... 78% signal strength. Guess we have to watch Raiders on analog 31:(

Hammer

12 hours later and KMAX is still down with 80% signal?

Hammer

No KMAX-DT at my Pocket area location either -- just black.

--Bill R.

Good I thought it was just me. After pre-season the games won't be on 31 and I don't think I watch 31 for anything else so since the other stations all seem pretty good I think I'm ready for football!


Johnny

I tuned by this morning (Monday) -- KMAX-DT is back ...

--Bill R.

Originally posted by videojanitor
I tuned by this morning (Monday) -- KMAX-DT is back ...

--Bill R.
This was our problem. Failure in our HDTV encoder. Now back to normal.

As is the case with most stations operating new digital facilities, the infrastructure is not as bullet proof as the analog side. In other words, we have very little backup equipment at this time. We are adding equipment each year and, as viewership increases, more and more backup equipment will be coming on line.

Bob

Originally posted by Bob Hess
This was our problem. Failure in our HDTV encoder. Now back to normal.


Bob

Normal is still not full power, yet, right? I just want to make sure that there's not a problem on my end since I still can't receive KMAX. I seem to remember you said full power this month sometime. Is that still on track?

Thanks, Bob,
Tracey

Originally posted by tlrowley
Normal is still not full power, yet, right? I just want to make sure that there's not a problem on my end since I still can't receive KMAX. I seem to remember you said full power this month sometime. Is that still on track?

Thanks, Bob,
Tracey
Should be late this month if all goes well.

Bob

Good news, thanks for the update/reminder.

Tracey

Has D- 31 had any hd content?
I dont think I have seen any since I moved my antenna into the attic and now pick it up.

The only one that comes to mind is Enterprise/Star Trek

Hammer

Originally posted by hammerdwn
The only one that comes to mind is Enterprise/Star Trek

Hammer
We do air some movies in HD. I'll try to remember to post on the Forum.

Bob

Originally posted by Bob Hess
We do air some movies in HD. I'll try to remember to post on the Forum.

Bob

The HD StarTrek last night was breadth-taking but sound wasn't DD5.1. Is there any chance UPN will be added on Comcast soon? Is talk going on at all?

Thanks Bob for the good work, can't wait to see the other movies.

Originally posted by jacmyoung
The HD StarTrek last night was breadth-taking but sound wasn't DD5.1. Is there any chance UPN will be added on Comcast soon? Is talk going on at all?

Thanks Bob for the good work, can't wait to see the other movies.
We don't expect to see UPN31 on Comcast any time soon. That is a Comcast decision. Best thing to do is to write them.

I'll have to check to see if Star Trek is available in DD5.1. The moving van just arrived from Boston a week ago and I still have to find my HD receiver. Since I have been here, the only HD I watch is in my office.

Bob

Will KMAX be full power in time for the Veronica Mars premire?

I'll tell you what they are doing... they are ripping us off. I've invested thousands of dollars and hours in my HD equipment so I can watch HDTV, not some video that looks like it was compressed and downloaded off the internet.

More than 1/4 of the bandwidth is now going to a subchannel (& null packets) that is not even tunable! They are now comparable to KVIE. No it's worse than KVIE, at least you can watch their other subchannels if you want.

Bandwidth during Olympics:
3.1 - 16.22Mbps (87.72%)
3.2 - 1.37Mbps (7.40%)
Audio - 348kbps (1.84%)

Bandwidth now (HD Primetime):
3.1 - 12.83Mbps (69.94%)
3.2 - 3.83Mbps (20.69%)
Audio 1 - 418kbps (2.18%)
Audio 2 - 418kbps (2.18%)

With these numbers, KCRA can't continue to blame the crappy picture on NBC national.

Hammer
EDIT: After a quick email response from KCRA engineering, things are back to what they call normal...
3.1 - 15.81Mbps (85.53%)
3.2 - 1.83Mbps (7.44%)
Audio - 413kbps (2.18%)

Originally posted by kerwinjr
Will KMAX be full power in time for the Veronica Mars premire?
I believe the premier is September 28. There is a good chance we will make this date if all goes well.

Bob

Is FOX broadcasting HD now. I tune in to channel 40 and according to my monitor display it's 1080i. I know fox will be doing 720p but my monitor does not support that so it upconverts. My STB is set to variable and when I tune to other non HD channels I get the right resolution shown on the screen (i.e 19 shows as 480p). Can someone clarify this. I aldo noticed that the logo is too far to the left compared to other stations. By the way the image does not look HD in my opinion but I'm no expert so I could be wrong.

No FOX HD until this Sunday with the start of the NFL season. KTXL (and all FOX affiliates that will transmit HD) sends out a 720p stream -- if something indicates that it is 1080i, it is upconverting it (or mis-identifying it).

The FOX logo you're seeing now is designed for the 4:3 frame, so it is way too far in when viewing 16:9 material. That will change when the HD goes online -- the logo will be down in the lower-right.

--Bill R.

Your display is showing the output resolution of your STB or cable box, which is converting the 720p Fox signal to 1080i.

Since it is most likely that your display will need everything converted to 1080i, the quality depends on which device has the better scaler.

My own experience is that it is better to convert 720p to 1080i than it is to convert 1080i to 720p. In the later case, 1080i material would be converted to 720p in the receiver and then back to 1080i in the display, and it is always best to minimize the number of such conversions.

What other stations on D* broadcast 720p? The reason I ask, ESPN-HD is the only channel that gives me audio sync problems, and I've been guessing this is because I am convertign to 1080i. I hope the problem does not appear on FOX also.

Johnny

I heard driving into work this morning that with the new Kings/Comcast deal, all of the Kings' home games will be broadcast in HDTV!!!

Joe Gamble from Comcast and Jim Thomas from the Kings were on KHTK talking about their new sports network and said that they would also add away games in HDTV when possible.

Woohoo!!!

-Now if we can just get a stadium approved!

Johnny

Sorry, I posted to the wrong forum...I thought I was in the Sacramento, CA Comcast forum. The information regarding the Kings in HDTV has also been posted in that forum.

Originally posted by hammerdwn
I'll tell you what they are doing... they are ripping us off. I've invested thousands of dollars and hours in my HD equipment so I can watch HDTV, not some video that looks like it was compressed and downloaded off the internet.

More than 1/4 of the bandwidth is now going to a subchannel (& null packets) that is not even tunable! They are now comparable to KVIE. No it's worse than KVIE, at least you can watch their other subchannels if you want.

Bandwidth during Olympics:
3.1 - 16.22Mbps (87.72%)
3.2 - 1.37Mbps (7.40%)
Audio - 348kbps (1.84%)

Bandwidth now (HD Primetime):
3.1 - 12.83Mbps (69.94%)
3.2 - 3.83Mbps (20.69%)
Audio 1 - 418kbps (2.18%)
Audio 2 - 418kbps (2.18%)

With these numbers, KCRA can't continue to blame the crappy picture on NBC national.

Hammer
EDIT: After a quick email response from KCRA engineering, things are back to what they call normal...
3.1 - 15.81Mbps (85.53%)
3.2 - 1.83Mbps (7.44%)
Audio - 413kbps (2.18%)

Hi Hammer,
Which HD STB are you using that shows the data rates of the component signals?
Carl

Using Fusion II PC HDTV card, I record the OTA program to hard disk. Then use TS Reader Lite to examine the stream in detail. It tells you a lot more than just the data rates!

Hammer

Originally posted by hammerdwn
Using Fusion II PC HDTV card, I record the OTA program to hard disk. Then use TS Reader Lite to examine the stream in detail. It tells you a lot more than just the data rates!

Hammer

Thanks, Hammer. I might pick on up at Fry's but due to my fringe area location, I'm not certain splitting the OTA signal a third way to feed it will work out.

Thanks again,
Carl

I finally get to watch something I really enjoy in hd.I just get my locals with stb ota.My hd content has been pretty limited,I dont care for most network shows.
Thank god football season is here to save the day!
Tonights broadcast looked awesome on my samsung 50" dlp.Cant wait to have a few friends over to watch the game and check it out.

Anyone know how many Kings games this next season we might get in high def?

The Kings intend to do all local games and some away games in HD. You will probably need Comcast to get all that are produced in HD.

Originally posted by Rory Boyce
The Kings intend to do all local games and some away games in HD. You will probably need Comcast to get all that are produced in HD.

Hey Rory, does that include the KXTV games?

Yes, the KXTV games will be in HD, but that is only a subset of the total games they plan on doing in HD. If you have Comcast obviously you would get both the KXTV games and Comcast games.

Sweet!

If I remember right, I think I heard that all OTA Kings home games will be in HD on yesterday's KXTV news. Comcast will show the whole season but I am not sure what the breakdown will be between SD and HD.

http://www.kxtv10.com/storyfull1.asp?id=8025

So does this mean these games are on Fox Sports Net? Or is Comcast using some other channel to broadcast these games?

In what I've read and heard, Comcast's plan is to basically start a "Comcast Sports Net" for the Central Valley. Fox Sports Net Bay Area balked at the Maloof's asking price for television coverage.

Originally posted by Rory Boyce
Yes, the KXTV games will be in HD, but that is only a subset of the total games they plan on doing in HD. If you have Comcast obviously you would get both the KXTV games and Comcast games.

Thank you Rory for the HD news. Will KXTV be doing the HD games themselves? Or will KXTV and Comcast get HD games from a same source? Do we get to see HD games in 720p or 1080i?

A large number of things need to be worked out still at this point. The kings have reserved Mira mobile's M5 HD truck, which is still under construction at this point, to do the games. How they will get the video to Comcast and KXTV is still TBD as of today. There are meetings between the parties scheduled next week to start working this out. I would guess that they will use a KU band satellite truck to distribute the HD signal. There potential issues with the relative delay between the HD and SD feeds assuming that they send both.

In the past KXTV has inserted the commercials in the game feed but obviously that will not work for games that are on Comcast only so they may need to start rolling in the spots in the truck. No decision has been made between 720P and 1080I at this point (the truck can do either).

With some luck we will have some of these questions answered at the end of next week. We need to know ourselves so any required equipment can be purchased, installed, and checked out well in advance.

Good luck there Rory.

With Comcast, they may just insert the Kings HD games in one of the InHD channels like they do to the Giants HD games.

Does anybody know if the Raiders game will be in HD on KOVR tomaro?


Johnny

NFL Football kovr 13-1

Raiders at Steelers

Oakland at Pittsburgh. Norv Turner bows as Oakland's head coach, long-time Buccaneers defender Warren Sapp makes his first regular-season start as a Raider, and ex-Eagle Duce Staley debuts as the Steelers' featured back.
High Definition (HD)

Looks like raiders, niners and buccs redskin games are all in hd according to titan tv guide.niners and bucc games are on fox.

good nfl morning sac...

im in Yuba City so Fox 40 is a bit shaky for me OTA, keeping fingers crossed. fox news in HD this am...

Not sure why but I can get HD OTA no problem for 3 and 13, but 10 and 40 are very ify. Lots of breakups and sometimes wont work at all. Aren't all the signals coming from the same Walnut Grove towers? Thanks for any tips.

fyi: d* setup my OTA, an amplified Winegard (pretty small) about 12 high.

Ian

Both CBS and FOX are in HD. However the FOX studio video is still 480p not HD as reported in the Programming Forum. I saw a few live field shots that appeared HD, my initial impression of FOX HD is very good. The games will be true test when shots of whole field take place.

As far as OTA signals, it is possible some stations transmit in a directional pattern. I was told channel 19 (Spanish) transmits their DTV from Stockton but directed toward north at Sacramento. But since 10 and 40 are the major networks in full power it may not be the case.

It's my understanding from the FOX NFL thread in the HDTV Programming section that neither "FOX News Sunday" or the "FOX NFL Sunday" pre-game show is in true 720p format. The pre-game show is reportedly in 480p ("Fox Widescreen") format.

You won't see actual 720p HD until the first game starts later today...either in 15 minutes or in 3 hours and 15 minutes, depending on your local FOX affiliate.

As I mentioned the FOX live in-field reporting was in HD and looked good. Even though the studio shows are 480p since they are not HD capable in studios yet, the pipline I believe is already open as 720p all the way.

Makes sense to me...from what I remember, the in-field shots looked pretty good. Though I'm not really the best judge of it...I don't actually have a digital set yet! (I'm pumping my USDigital STB's output via S-Video into my analog set. The PQ improvement for HD signals still makes it worth the money for me, even before I buy a HD set...)

Originally posted by ileff
good nfl morning sac...

im in Yuba City so Fox 40 is a bit shaky for me OTA, keeping fingers crossed. fox news in HD this am...

Not sure why but I can get HD OTA no problem for 3 and 13, but 10 and 40 are very ify. Lots of breakups and sometimes wont work at all. Aren't all the signals coming from the same Walnut Grove towers? Thanks for any tips.

fyi: d* setup my OTA, an amplified Winegard (pretty small) about 12 high.

Ian

Channel 3 and 13 use UHF channels 35 and 25, respectively, for their DTV channels, while 10 and 40 use 61 and 55. The lower channels numbers will propagate better over distance and that is probably why you are seeing a difference. How is your reception of channel 6, whose DTV signal is on channel 53?

thanks that makes the most sense... hopefully i will end up getting abc/fox over d*. i applied for waivers, but haven't heard back yet.

most of the time pbs-dt doesn't even get detected by my channel scan

40-1 has been watchable 50% of the time and looked awesome!

After comparing CBS Raiders game and FOX TB vs. Washington, I still think CBS 1080i is better than 720p, higher resolution is very important when it comes to HDTV.

Originally posted by jacmyoung
After comparing CBS Raiders game and FOX TB vs. Washington, I still think CBS 1080i is better than 720p, higher resolution is very important when it comes to HDTV.

Was KTXL showing it in 720p? If it was, it didn't look much better than the 480p widescreen I've seen them show before. I guess I should have played with the settings on the HD TIVO to see if 1080 or 720 looked better. I get a little lazy with that. I hope D* gets the native resolution setting added at some point.

The niners game right now is 720p. I think 1080i looks much better.


Johnny

The niners game is a bit better than the Redskins - TB game. But I noticed that the 5.1 audio is dropping during the studio show, commercials and when they show the ticker scores at the bottom. The game itself is fine. Maybe this new insertion technology has some bugs to work out. The CBS feed had more graphics than I've seen in the past. They had the super-imposed 1st down lines and ticker down on the bottom of the screen. They seem to be way in front on the graphics over Fox.

I'm getting the audio dropouts here in Vacaville also. Hope they get this corrected soon.

Originally posted by jbradway
Was KTXL showing it in 720p? If it was, it didn't look much better than the 480p widescreen I've seen them show before. I guess I should have played with the settings on the HD TIVO to see if 1080 or 720 looked better.

Yes, it was in 720p -- looked a LOT sharper than the old "FOX Widescreen" stuff, at least on my set (a Sony XBR910 CRT). I have an HD TiVo as well -- if you toggle it to 720p while watching FOX (or ABC for that matter), it does look a little better. Not a tremendous difference, but it's there if you know what to look for.

--Bill

The 49ers are bad enough this year without the audi dropouts on KTXL Fox 40. I was excited about watching a poor team due to the excitement of NFL in HD. But audio dropouts are as annoying as watching Jim Mora beat the 49ers.

The audio problems are at the network level, as has been discussed in the
NFL On FOX In HDTV - 2004 Week 1! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=445355) thread.

I emailed Fox 40 about their OTA HD signal strength. Not only did I get a prompt response but also great news:

"We are starting Wednesday to increase our DTV transmitter power from 290,000 watts to 1,000,000 watts. We will be on and off the air over the next three weeks but will not be down for any of the weekends. Thanks for your interest and patience, we appreciate it."

Jack Davis
Chief Engineer

is there an easy way to measure your signal strength? i have D* with a samsung 360 and the signal meter on that doesnt not work right, I guess its a known issue with that model. i get frequent audio and video drops so I am wondering if its me or the lack of power some stations have.

is there a way to know how strong the signal is? like a cheap little meter or something?

Johnny

penguin,

im also d* with a sammy 360 -> 50LC14.

i live 60+ miles north of walnut grove, but get 3-1 and 13-1 perfectly 99.9% of the time.

10-1 and 40-1 have been a struggle. i can occasionally tune them in, but too many glitches and blackouts to be watchable.

i'm very excited to learn about 40's power increase. i'll post the results.

I maintain a list on my web site of SF Bay Area, Sacramento and Salinas-Monterey digital stations that are on the air. Since I cannot receive the stations in Sacramento reliably, I'd appreciate an update on what stations are on the air or not on the air.

You'll find my list at: http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html

As you'll note, I show the following stations as being on the air:
18 (19), 21 (31), 25 (13), 35 (3), 46 (58), 53 (6), 55 (40), 61 (10), and 62 (64). If you see any information that's incorrect, I'd appreciate knowing about it.

The following I have listed as NOT being on the air, and these are the ones I'd like to hear about as to whether they're now on the air:
15 (23) Ceres, 38 (51) Merced, 43 (12) Chico, and 48 (29) Sacramento.

Thanks
Larry
SF

We started the work a day earlier than scheduled to increase the power on KTXL-DT. We estimate we will be off the air for 2 to 3 days to make the modifications to the transmitter and and will be raising the power to 1 MW over the next two weeks. We will be back on the air on the weekends for the NFL games and will have the modifications completed by post season baseball and the World Series. The Comcast feed should not be impacted as we feed them directly VIA fiber optic cable.

Thanks for your patience, we appreciate it.

Jack Davis
Chief Engineer
KTXL-DT

Originally posted by Larry Kenney
I maintain a list on my web site of SF Bay Area, Sacramento and Salinas-Monterey digital stations that are on the air. Since I cannot receive the stations in Sacramento reliably, I'd appreciate an update on what stations are on the air or not on the air.

You'll find my list at: http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html

As you'll note, I show the following stations as being on the air:
18 (19), 21 (31), 25 (13), 35 (3), 46 (58), 53 (6), 55 (40), 61 (10), and 62 (64). If you see any information that's incorrect, I'd appreciate knowing about it.

The following I have listed as NOT being on the air, and these are the ones I'd like to hear about as to whether they're now on the air:
15 (23) Ceres, 38 (51) Merced, 43 (12) Chico, and 48 (29) Sacramento.

Thanks
Larry
SF

43 (12) from Chico is on the air, along with 34 (7) from Redding and 20 (30) from Chico. Here in Nevada City, I get a faint signal from 18 (9) from Redding, but never strong enough to lock up. Also 54 (50) from Santa Rosa is on, but is too weak for reliable reception.

Carl

Originally posted by drunkpenguin
is there an easy way to measure your signal strength? i have D* with a samsung 360 and the signal meter on that doesnt not work right, I guess its a known issue with that model. i get frequent audio and video drops so I am wondering if its me or the lack of power some stations have.

is there a way to know how strong the signal is? like a cheap little meter or something?

Johnny

My son in San Jose got a Sammy 360 as part of the $99 D* HD upgrade offer for existing subscribers. He said the signal meter was totally useless, and was quite bummed out. However, his receiver crapped, and D* replaced it with a Hughes HTL-HD. It has a very nice meter, which apparently indicates some sort of combination of raw signal strength with signal quality. So if you got the receiver from D*, try for an exchange. There is no actual guarantee you'll get a Hughes but mostly HTLs have been shipping lately. Even if you get another 360, it may be a newer version with a signal meter that actually works!

Good luck,
Carl

Stupid question of the day - is there any reason that FOX being off the air would have any effect on PBS (same tower or something)? I can't get 6-1 today (Tues, 4pm), either. Simple coincidence?

Tracey

Not a stupid question at all -- Both KTXL and KVIE ARE on the same tower (both analog and digital), so indeed it's possible that the work being done at KTXL might affect KVIE. I don't know for sure though, but I'll try to find out.

--Bill

Originally posted by Dechief
We started the work a day earlier than scheduled to increase the power on KTXL-DT. We estimate we will be off the air for 2 to 3 days to make the modifications to the transmitter and and will be raising the power to 1 MW over the next two weeks. We will be back on the air on the weekends for the NFL games and will have the modifications completed by post season baseball and the World Series. The Comcast feed should not be impacted as we feed them directly VIA fiber optic cable.

Thanks for your patience, we appreciate it.

Jack Davis
Chief Engineer
KTXL-DT

Jack,
Thanks for the information. I just hooked up a LG 3410-A and KTL was coming in last night and this morning there was nothing there! I thought I was going crazy or something! Is your work affecting PBS as well since you share a tower?

Dave

Originally posted by tlrowley
Stupid question of the day - is there any reason that FOX being off the air would have any effect on PBS (same tower or something)? I can't get 6-1 today (Tues, 4pm), either. Simple coincidence?

Tracey

No, it's a pretty good question, but it is actually an incredible coincidence.

I too am not recieving the PBS OTA signal, KVIE channel 6. I did notice that there are new channels being broadcast on physical channels 51 and 52 when I did a scan. Since KVIE is on physical channels 53, and the fox station (mapped 40) is on physical channel 55, I suspected that the new channels were not "playing nice." Glad to see that the issue with channel 40 was due to known causes, the power upgrade.

Oh, well, it's certainly not the first time KVIE's been off the air. Thanks for confirming the coincidence.

Tracey

I called KVIE, and the person I spoke to, Stephanie, said that per VP of Engineering Micheal Wall, they expect to have it back up as of noon today (04sep15). That was per a memo from Wall dated yesterday.

Thanks, Chris - you've sure hit the ground running.

Tracey

I just checked 6-1, it's up.

KTXL (40-1) is now back on the air. Did they increase their power to 1 MW or are they taking a break?

anybody know where i can go to check the status of blacked out football games? i noticed last night the raider game is not listed in my D* guide.


Johnny

Star Trek V, The Final Frontier, will air in HD on KMAX Saturday night at 8 PM.

Sorry, still on the directional antenna, but the crew is working as I write this. We're on track for a non-directional, high power signal this month.

Bob Hess
Director of Engineering
KMAX

Thanks for the update Bob. Since I started using the HD Tivo, KMAX breaks up on me all the time. The tuner isn't as good as the TS-360 I guess.

Originally posted by Bob Hess
Star Trek V, The Final Frontier, will air in HD on KMAX Saturday night at 8 PM.

Sorry, still on the directional antenna, but the crew is working as I write this. We're on track for a non-directional, high power signal this month.

Bob Hess
Director of Engineering
KMAX

Thanks for the update, Bob. Keep up the good work!

Carl

Originally posted by drunkpenguin
anybody know where i can go to check the status of blacked out football games? i noticed last night the raider game is not listed in my D* guide.


Johnny

I heard on KNBR this afternoon that the game is not sold out, so it is blacked out in the San Francisco, Sacramento and Monterey markets. Best bet would be to aim your antenna towards Chico...

I am once again having a problem with PBS KVIE-DT 53.1 (6.1). A station redirect pops up on my Sony KD-34XBR2 screen shunting me to 53.1 but instead of staying there 53.1 produces a similar redirect back to 6.1 and continues back and forth. Four or five months ago I referred to this as ping-pong. I called the station engineer again and he said no one else has reported such behavior.

Has anyone here experienced this?

Until it goes away (or is again fixed) I have an alternative by using the MyHD PC card but that ties up the card from its recording duties.

Originally posted by Dechief
We started the work a day earlier than scheduled to increase the power on KTXL-DT. We estimate we will be off the air for 2 to 3 days to make the modifications to the transmitter and and will be raising the power to 1 MW over the next two weeks. We will be back on the air on the weekends for the NFL games and will have the modifications completed by post season baseball and the World Series. The Comcast feed should not be impacted as we feed them directly VIA fiber optic cable.

Thanks for your patience, we appreciate it.

Jack Davis
Chief Engineer
KTXL-DT

As of late afternoon Friday KTXL-DT is on the air at 1 MW ERP. We still have some final fine tuning to do and will continue to work at it over the next few days.

Jack Davis
Chief Engineer
KTXL-TV

Originally posted by Dechief
As of late afternoon Friday KTXL-DT is on the air at 1 MW ERP. We still have some final fine tuning to do and will continue to work at it over the next few days.

Jack Davis
Chief Engineer
KTXL-TV

Hi Jack,
You now have a potent signal, on a par with both 35-1, 10-1 and 58-1. You are up on 25-1, and as I said earlier, 21-1 and 53-1 are below threshhold up here nearly all the time.

Great job!

Carl

I am not receiving 40-1 in Vacaville at all. I have a new STB and am wondering if the signal is now TOO STRONG!!! I am getting no signal what so ever.

Dave

I am in Vacaville also. 40-1 is on and showing Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles in all their glory!!

Bob

Bob,
I think I figured it out. I have to tune into the actual channel number, then it gets remapped to 40-1....I am going to do that now! (I forgot about that when installing the new STB).

Dave

Originally posted by Garrett Adams
I am once again having a problem with PBS KVIE-DT 53.1 (6.1). A station redirect pops up on my Sony KD-34XBR2 screen shunting me to 53.1 but instead of staying there 53.1 produces a similar redirect back to 6.1 and continues back and forth. Four or five months ago I referred to this as ping-pong. I called the station engineer again and he said no one else has reported such behavior.

Has anyone here experienced this?

Until it goes away (or is again fixed) I have an alternative by using the MyHD PC card but that ties up the card from its recording duties.

Yes, the redirects happen every once and a while just as you describe. I'm in Folsom and have a Samsung T351 OTA HD receiver. Sometimes PBSHD will stay on 53.1 for a few days and then revert back to the correct 6.1. I cannot trust the station to be at 6.1 continually, as it should.

Roger
Folsom

Fixed...just had to tune in 55-1..all is well in the world now except for UPN 31 which has a terrible signal (but who cares because I they show is crap!).

Dave

Dave,
Glad to hear all is well in Vacaville. Would be a shame to miss any Fox football in HD!!

Bob

Hey guys I need some advice, I'm going to make a post in the HD hardware section also, but wanted to get some advice from Sacramentians. As a Raider fan I may be looking at alot of blacked out games this year, so my father wants to hook up the biggest antenna needed to reach the chico stations. He lives in Antelope, according to antenna web hes about 88 miles away from the chico stations.

Is anybody in Sac getting analog chico stations? Analog stations will be fine if we can atleast see the game. If anyone is getting a decent picture out of chico can you tell me what kind of antenna your using.

Thanks,

Johnny

Before I got TiVo, I used to watch KHSL (Channel 12) from Chico all the time, because KOVR starts Letterman at 11:00, and I don't get home from work until 11:30. I'm in the Pocket area, which is significantly farther south than Antelope, and I get pretty reliable reception using just a small Channel Master antenna. I don't know the model number, but it's definitely one of the smaller ones, and only cost about $50. Now I'm not saying it's a "perfect" picture, but more often than not, it's quite watchable.

Of course, you'll need an antenna rotor in order to swing back and forth from Chico to Sacramento, but those aren't very expensive.

--Bill

Back when I had my RS VHF/UHF 60 mi combo antenna, I tried to get the Raiders from Chico- I think CBS 12 & FOX 30. It did work, but the picture was pretty fuzzy. I'm at Antelope/80. I may break it out again just temporarily to try again. Or at least swing my CM4228 around try to get FOX 30.

You might consider finding a local bar that shows the Raiders. I know of a sandwich shop in Rocklin that shows them.

Hammer

Originally posted by drunkpenguin
Hey guys I need some advice, I'm going to make a post in the HD hardware section also, but wanted to get some advice from Sacramentians. As a Raider fan I may be looking at alot of blacked out games this year, so my father wants to hook up the biggest antenna needed to reach the chico stations. He lives in Antelope, according to antenna web hes about 88 miles away from the chico stations.

Is anybody in Sac getting analog chico stations? Analog stations will be fine if we can atleast see the game. If anyone is getting a decent picture out of chico can you tell me what kind of antenna your using.

Thanks,

Johnny

Hi Johnny,
My antenna is a ChannelMaster HD7084, and does a great job with Chico. Of course I'm higher up than you (3000'), but I'm very pleased with it. It's the second biggest antenna they make, but quite manageable to put up. I can pull in the Redding stations as well, but they are on the marginal side.
One thing to be aware of is that although the Chico and Redding stations have digital transmitters, they are not currently transmitting in HD. They just upconvert their analog channel and it looks quite poor on an HD monitor.
Your best bet to get blacked out games is to find a friend with a D* account in the white zone and see what he is willing to do for you.
Good luck,
Carl

I live in Rocklin (very near Roseville/Hwy 65) and I can get Raiders games
with the second to the largest Radio Shack antenna with rotor. Those in Sac. area with a clear shot to Sutter Buttes should be able to get Channel
12 (CBS) or channel 30 (FOX) analog with just some snow.

Originally posted by carl033
Hi Johnny,
My antenna is a ChannelMaster HD7084, and does a great job with Chico. Of course I'm higher up than you (3000'), but I'm very pleased with it. It's the second biggest antenna they make, but quite manageable to put up. I can pull in the Redding stations as well, but they are on the marginal side.
One thing to be aware of is that although the Chico and Redding stations have digital transmitters, they are not currently transmitting in HD. They just upconvert their analog channel and it looks quite poor on an HD monitor.
Your best bet to get blacked out games is to find a friend with a D* account in the white zone and see what he is willing to do for you.
Good luck,
Carl

Carl-
Your post is very encouraging to me.

My wife and I currently live in Sacramento and I LOVE my OTA HDTV programming here as my reception of OTA HD is outstanding with a 4-bay Channel Master pointed at Walnut Grove.

The problem is that we are building a new home in Placerville that we plan to move into next summer and I have been stressing over the prospect of giving up my HD programming.

Your story gives me a glimmer of hope of retaining my OTA HD with an 8-bay antenna and just the right line-of-sight!

Thanks!

Originally posted by dbdsac
Carl-
Your post is very encouraging to me.

My wife and I currently live in Sacramento and I LOVE my OTA HDTV programming here as my reception of OTA HD is outstanding with a 4-bay Channel Master pointed at Walnut Grove.

The problem is that we are building a new home in Placerville that we plan to move into next summer and I have been stressing over the prospect of giving up my HD programming.

Your story gives me a glimmer of hope of retaining my OTA HD with an 8-bay antenna and just the right line-of-sight!

Thanks!

The key to your success in Placerville is whether you have a more-or-less clear view WSW to Walnut Grove. You might look for a neighbor where you'll be moving with an outdoor antenna, introduce yourself and ask about (or look at) his OTA reception.
Carl

Originally posted by dbdsac
Carl-
Your post is very encouraging to me.

My wife and I currently live in Sacramento and I LOVE my OTA HDTV programming here as my reception of OTA HD is outstanding with a 4-bay Channel Master pointed at Walnut Grove.

The problem is that we are building a new home in Placerville that we plan to move into next summer and I have been stressing over the prospect of giving up my HD programming.

Your story gives me a glimmer of hope of retaining my OTA HD with an 8-bay antenna and just the right line-of-sight!

Thanks!
I live in the Placerville area. Send me your new address and I'll give you a good idea whether or not you will be able to see the Walnut Grove stations.

Bob Hess
UPN-31 KMAX
bhess at cbs.com