Um, did the Pres speech scew us out of the KOVR 7p-8p primetime shows? Is CSI Miami gonna be on at 8p instead of 9p tonight? or WTF??? Guides say all new episodes tonight or is that FuBarred?
7:00 Two and a Half Men
7:30 Big Bang Theory
8:00 New Adventures of Old Christine
8:30 How I Met Your Mother
9:00 CSI Miami

Has KOVR changed their graphics and theme music for all newscasts or just the 6p edition? They're also using their newsroom extensively tonight.
They've changed their graphics since last October when they went HD, Luckily, I can still watch KPIX Channel 5 on Dish Channel 244 and thus I will still be able to watch their primetime programs in no time.

Hey Bob,

Only one or two clear days until the tower construction is finished for the new antenna?

Wondering, since my TVGOS device gave up locking onto 13-1 as a host channel with it going off the air during the day.

7:00 Two and a Half Men
7:30 Big Bang Theory
8:00 New Adventures of Old Christine
8:30 How I Met Your Mother
9:00 CSI Miami

Is the whole evening gonna be plagued with frequent av glitches, just like the first 40min (and counting so far)?

Boy are the schedules screwed up big time. Chuck was supposed to be new, it's a re-run, House is supposed to be on now and it's a re-run of last week's 24, the CBS promos said that CSI was following Big Bang (which was an absolute scream tonight) and instead it's New Adventures of Old Christine. So much for the published TV guides.
I guess this is part of the "Change" promised by the administration... ;>

Just our 6 PM show has changed. Comments?

Bob

Thanks for the clarification. I think the theme music sounds a little too "mysterious" however, but maybe that's just me.

They've changed their graphics since last October when they went HD, Luckily, I can still watch KPIX Channel 5 on Dish Channel 244 and thus I will still be able to watch their primetime programs in no time.

I know they changed their graphics then, but according to Bob, they've changed the graphics for only 6p show just recently.

Hey Bob,

Only one or two clear days until the tower construction is finished for the new antenna?

Wondering, since my TVGOS device gave up locking onto 13-1 as a host channel with it going off the air during the day.
We have one more day of construction. Thursday if weather is good. I posted the latest pictures on Friday. Imagine a crane at 2,000 feet above ground. I have done many, many tower projects but this is just amazing.

www.cbs13.com/blogs

Bob

The deadline has passed for stations to notify the FCC that they will be shutting down their analog transmitter on February 17. (The deadline was 11:59 pm EST Monday.) We just searched the files for all of the stations in this area and found the following:

Stations signing off their analog transmitter on February 17 are:
KOFY 20 San Francisco
KICU 36 San Jose
KCNS 38 San Francisco
KION 46 Monterey

There were no stations shown for the Sacramento-Stockton market.

There was a notice that KRON digital would be operating at half power on channel 57 beginning January 5th so that they could modify half of their transmitter for channel 38. At the transition they will come up on channel 38 at half power, then modify the other half of their transmitter and return to full power on channel 38 at a later date.

There was another notice that KTNC would be turning off their channel 63 digital transmitter on January 12, so that they could install their new transmitter and antenna for channel 14. They said they would be ready to go on with the new facility on February 18. (With the transition delay and KDTV analog staying on the air until 6/12, it looks like KTNC will not have a digital signal on the air for four more months now.)

As of this time, President Obama has still not signed the DTV Delay bill. You can check the status of the bill at:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:S352:

(Just a thought: Can you imagine the craziness that will occur if the president vetoes the bill?)

Larry
SF

......Questions:
1. Does my theory (link here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15774404&postcount=3691) sound valid?

Make sure all of your connections are tight and the shield on the cable is intact. A properly installed cable hookup should not be susceptible to that much leakage.

Even that may not be enough on ch. 3. Their hot analog signal gets past every precautionary measure one can reasonably take if you're close enough to Walnut Grove. Granted, I'm only a few miles away, but anyway, I can get a watchable screen with a bare antenna connector. A 75-ohm F-type termination doesn't even eliminate it, since you can only shield a feed line up to your mostly-plastic TV set.

I long ago gave up trying to watch 3 (or for that matter, 10 & 13) on cable due to the OTA bleed-in, and I really suspect Daemonic has the same problem despite being farther away.

The good news, of course, is that KCRA's OTA signal is far better than what Comcast delivers, even on their HD channel.

I hardly get KCRA's signal since it's far from where i live. (However I'm trying to get a Wineguard Outdoor antenna (E-Skip) in order to recieve the Walnut Grove stations. NOTE: During the summertime, I'm able to pull the stations from Bakersfield, Redding and Reno due to their high frequency. Anyway, I really hope that soon enough, I'm able to pull up stations from Medford, Bend, OR and points north. However, I do hope that soon enough, I'll be able to pull the stations from Seattle or Portland, (Wishful thinking though). But, for now, I'm still happy with not just the over-the-air stations, but also on my Dish as well.

Even that may not be enough on ch. 3. Their hot analog signal gets past every precautionary measure one can reasonably take if you're close enough to Walnut Grove. Granted, I'm only a few miles away, but anyway, I can get a watchable screen with a bare antenna connector. A 75-ohm F-type termination doesn't even eliminate it, since you can only shield a feed line up to your mostly-plastic TV set.

I long ago gave up trying to watch 3 (or for that matter, 10 & 13) on cable due to the OTA bleed-in, and I really suspect Daemonic has the same problem despite being farther away.

The good news, of course, is that KCRA's OTA signal is far better than what Comcast delivers, even on their HD channel.

Yeah, its mind-boggling. I've checked each of the last few nights and my other two boxes still get 35dB SNR on the 57MHz channels, just like all the other channels. My new one still gets ~30dB on those 57MHz channels only, and everything else is ~34-35dB. Couplings are all good. And I've swapped the two swappable patch cables (I can't swap out the in-wall ones anymore). Once the cables leave the panel in my wife's closet, I don't know their route through the house, but regardless I *still* can't think of anything sending 57MHz interference. My only test will be after June 12th, and assuming they don't continue broadcasting a PSA to "buy a converter box, dummy" for another month or whatever (which it looked like KCRA filed for if I googled correctly).

7:00 Two and a Half Men
7:30 Big Bang Theory
8:00 New Adventures of Old Christine
8:30 How I Met Your Mother
9:00 CSI Miami


Ok. Maybe I missed something here but CBS for a week advertised Big Bang Theory would be on at a special time which would have been 8:30. My TiVo even changed the time it recorded based on the guide data it gets (from the Tribune?). And yet what recorded was How I Met Your Mother during which CBS advertised that Two and A Half Men was "On Next". Of course what played was CSI Miami. So was why does it seem like KOVR's lineup was different than all the rest of the CBS world?

Ok. Maybe I missed something here but CBS for a week advertised Big Bang Theory would be on at a special time which would have been 8:30. My TiVo even changed the time it recorded based on the guide data it gets (from the Tribune?). And yet what recorded was How I Met Your Mother during which CBS advertised that Two and A Half Men was "On Next". Of course what played was CSI Miami. So was why does it seem like KOVR's lineup was different than all the rest of the CBS world?

Because it is. KOVR runs the network shows 1 hour earlier than the rest of the time zone.

Because it is. KOVR runs the network shows 1 hour earlier than the rest of the time zone.

That much I realize, and the guide data has always been correct with that. The one hour difference doesn't explain why CBS is advertising Two and A Half Men on next after How I Met Your Mother and KOVR plays CSI Miami. It would appear that KOVR played the shows out of the order CBS intended/advertised them.

That much I realize, and the guide data has always been correct with that. The one hour difference doesn't explain why CBS is advertising Two and A Half Men on next after How I Met Your Mother and KOVR plays CSI Miami. It would appear that KOVR played the shows out of the order CBS intended/advertised them.

The schedule was disrupted by the presidential press conference.

The FCC has released a complete list of full power stations in the US by DMA showing all of the stations that have already shut down, or will be shutting down, their analog transmitter before or on February 17.

There are two stations in this area on the FCC list that weren't in the list that I sent out last night:
KCBA 35 Salinas
KFTY 50 Santa Rosa

So the complete list for the SF Bay Area/Sacramento/Stockton/Salinas/Monterey is:
KOFY 20 San Francisco
KCBA 35 Salinas
KICU 36 San Jose
KCNS 38 San Francisco
KION 46 Monterey
KFTY 50 Santa Rosa

No stations in Sacramento/Stockton will be shutting down early.

The only station that will be doing Nightlight Service is KOFY 20.

For a complete list of stations nationwide released by the FCC this afternoon download this PDF file:
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A5.pdf
Look for the stations printed in red. Those are the ones going off early.

Also, KFTY has submitted an application for a Special Temporary Authority (STA) to move their digital operation to their post-transition channel, moving from channel 54 to channel 32, on February 17. Personally, I don't see how they can do that with KMTP analog still on the air from Sutro.

That's the latest info.

Larry
SF

Out in Newman, though most of the Sacto stations come in fairly OK, but mostly weak, I basically can see much from Fresno. I plugged in KMPH and KGPE as well as KFSN and KFRE and they come in about 80-90% of the time. Sometime the Sacto Stations can get a bit blippped but it only comes in 20-30% of the time. KCRA and KQCA are very weak stations at 25% while the rest come in about 40%.

The FCC has granted the STA to KFTY to transition on the 17th and move to channel 32. They're running an announcement about every 10 minutes this morning but aren't saying anything about the need to rescan/add on the 18th to find them OTA.

Chuck

The tempy channel 13.4 is scheduled to disappear after today. See Bob's blog at...

http://pod08.prospero.com/n/blogs/blog.aspx?webtag=KOVR_HessTV

....rain permitting, no doubt.

The tempy channel 13.4 is scheduled to disappear after today. See Bob's blog at...

http://pod08.prospero.com/n/blogs/blog.aspx?webtag=KOVR_HessTV

....rain permitting, no doubt.
Not quite, Ron. They ran into some problems and are telling us there will be one more "shut-down" day.

Bob
www.cbs13.com/blogs

Hi all, been lurking here for quite a while. I live one of the worst areas of the Sacramento county for tv reception, the hilly tree'd area of Fair Oaks. Besides that I'm on the back side of one of the higher hills of Sacramento county. My antenna actually does reach above the peak of the hill but has to look through a couple of trees.
My normal digital reception has been quite good. I've been waiting for the weather to pick up to see how reception would react...Naturally TV reception is easy to get when things are still!
Today is a bad day. Most channels are struggling digitally but analog is pretty good.

How's the reception been for all of you.

Equipment: Biggest Weingard antenna, weingard amp (non antenna), Digital Stream, Zenith and Echostar converters and 1 Vizio 40 in DTV. Antenna distance to Amp=<>50 ft. Average Digital chan 40, 6,13 sig <> 85, chan 31 <> 90....Chan 3 <> 75.....And what's amazing is that channel 19-1 is <>98.

Jim

Why the frown? Those numbers look pretty good to me. :) Upper 70's to low 80's is about it for me for Walnut Grove and KCRA is typically 63. The only stations that are 98 here are 19-1 and 64-1.

Chuck

By physical channel 19.1 do you mean KOFY San Francisco? They are on Sutro Tower.

Or do you mean virtual 19.1 KUVS (Univision - Angels Camp Transmitter) which actually transmits on 18?

Why the frown? Those numbers look pretty good to me. :) Upper 70's to low 80's is about it for me for Walnut Grove and KCRA is typically 63. The only stations that are 98 here are 19-1 and 64-1.

Chuck

Sorry for not being clear...The numbers that I posted were under good conditions..With the wind or just raining I get major dropouts/pixelation.

The 19-1 is univision from Merced ( I think).

6-1 was totally un-watchable digitally but analog was perfect. I know that digital is UHF and the analog is VHF. On a good day 6-1 is in the 70's.

What I was curious about is if others watching OTA were experiencing a degradation today....I was trying to watch the Datona 500 and it was frustrating on 40-1.

Jim

From where I live, 19-1, 23-1, 40-1 and 64-1 come in about 70-75% while most 10-1 and 13-1 come in about 60% of the time, 3-1 and 58-1 only come in 20%. However, the stations from Fresno, CA come in about 80-90%.

Sorry for not being clear...The numbers that I posted were under good conditions..With the wind or just raining I get major dropouts/pixelation.

The 19-1 is univision from Merced ( I think).

Jim

Okay, I got it. Channel 19 transmits from just NW of Angels Camp which is only 14 miles from here.

I have seen a situation where blowing trees caused signal disruption on UHF. It was a very ugly scene on a spectrum analyzer. I seem to be lucky that blowing trees don't seem to affect anything here. All stations were nominal here this morning with the wind gusting to 30 mph.... and I do look through a few pine trees.

Contrary to popular belief, rain does not attenuate VHF/UHF signals. Rain is a good time to evaluate your nominal signal strengths. Poorer signals during rain most often means you're relying on some amount of ducting to get a better signal the rest of the time.

It's a bit disappointing to see the number of people showing up on these forums who are having trouble with DTV OTA. I can only imagine the number of people having problems who never make it to a place like this and give up on OTA.

Chuck

It's a bit disappointing to see the number of people showing up on these forums who are having trouble with DTV OTA. I can only imagine the number of people having problems who never make it to a place like this and give up on OTA.

Chuck

Calaveras, I enjoy reading your posts....as I do others.

Since 1964 I've been in the Digital and Analog world of electronics from Mainframe computers to manufacturing analog receivers, all my working life..What you have said has been my mantra since the inception of the analog to digital conversion project...

I have helped numerous OTA users over the past year....especially those that like to "RECORD THEIR SOAPS". You ought to hear what they have to say when you say, "You won't be able to change channels from 3-1 to 13-1 with most of these converter boxes when you want to record 3-1 at 1300 and 13-1 at 1500"...There are a lot of working GALS out there that like to record their, "SOAPS" that are in for a rude awakening...Is the RATH coming????

Then you tell them that there are no "CHEAP" ATSC tuner VCR's out there...
I'm sure that cheap ATSC tuner VCR's will be avail in a couple of years but that's not going to solve the initial problem. They literally go into convulsions....

That said, just think of the impact of those families with perfectly good TV's/VCR's throwing them in the trash and purchasing new ATSC devices....You can just see that big sucking of our $$$$ leaving the country and headed for CHINA etc...as those of us upgrade our equipment..

I just don't think this project was analyzed properly by our Gvt....Getting the broadcast equipment, antenna's etc is time consuming but easy because experts are envolved....Getting the consumer educated is another..... especially when most can't set the VCR clock and we now will require them to, install the converter, align their antenna's and scan for channels....OMG.

Then the next problem occurs...in the old days a truck, airplane etc would cause interference but there would be no loss of dialog, most of the time" and the pix may distort/shadow etc but now.....explain to them why they can't see the pix and there's no dialog....GEEEEZZZZZZ.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a doer but I like to gather ALL the facts before I begin a major project. It's hard enough incorporating necessary changes for things you overlook as it is.....Just look at WINDOWS...hee hee.

Could you imagine Nasa deciding to launch a manned spacecraft to the moon and not training the astronauts on the spacecraft mechanics, guidance and electronics????? Well I guess they did launch monkeys into space early on........



Jim

Check out the new FCC maps:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/

Larry
SF

I typed in my address and most likely, I get all of the Fresno Stations as I said before but to get KCRA and KQCA since they are part of the Hearst-Argyle Tower, I got myself the Wineguard Antenna however, the reception kinda bounces since Newman is right close on the hills and my converter box can only sense that KCRA is only on 25-30%. However KCRA/KQCA's sister station KSBW can be picked up close to 75% because they are on Fremont Peak.

Then you tell them that there are no "CHEAP" ATSC tuner VCR's out there...
I'm sure that cheap ATSC tuner VCR's will be avail in a couple of years but that's not going to solve the initial problem. They literally go into convulsions....

About all you can do with the old VCRs is connect them to the CECB video/audio outputs and set the VCR to record at a certain time. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think there is a way to program the CECB to change channels. That would have been a nice little addition but then I suppose people would really have been confused about the need to set up two boxes to record one program.

That said, just think of the impact of those families with perfectly good TV's/VCR's throwing them in the trash and purchasing new ATSC devices....You can just see that big sucking of our $$$$ leaving the country and headed for CHINA etc...as those of us upgrade our equipment..

I'm having pretty good luck with my DTVPal DVR. It's not cheap compared to a VCR and it's got a few bugs but it mostly works for me.

I just don't think this project was analyzed properly by our Gvt....Getting the broadcast equipment, antenna's etc is time consuming but easy because experts are envolved....Getting the consumer educated is another..... especially when most can't set the VCR clock and we now will require them to, install the converter, align their antenna's and scan for channels....OMG.

There are several areas in which they've fallen down on the job. One is to explain the difference between analog and digital reception. Maybe it's too confusing for the average person to understand, but they need to try.

I tell people now that there is a tradeoff between the two. If you have an analog picture that has no more than just a tiny amount of snow and/or a few ghosts, then you can trade that for a perfect digital picture in most cases. If you have lots of snow and/or ghosts then it's likely you'll not be able to receive the digital signal. An antenna upgrade is necessary. If you already have an outside antenna then you may have to consider cable or satellite.

Another thing they're not doing a good job on is explaining the differences between VHF and UHF antennas. Everywhere I look I see people trying to receive the one or two VHF stations in their market with a UHF antenna. I don't think it would be that hard to explain the difference using indoor VHF rabbit ears/UHF antenna as the example.

It's very common for people with indoor antennas to move them around to get the best picture. Here's another idea for people with indoor antennas trying to find a hot spot for their antenna with a digital station. Convert the AGC to a bar graph to show real signal strength. The AGC will show something even when the signal is not strong enough to lock. That would give some feedback to position the antenna. Unfortunately I can't think of any way to give feedback when there is too much multipath for the tuner to lock the signal. The signal quality meters need to be able to show signal-to-noise at ratios below which a picture can be displayed. I don't know if that's possible.

Could you imagine Nasa deciding to launch a manned spacecraft to the moon and not training the astronauts on the spacecraft mechanics, guidance and electronics????? Well I guess they did launch monkeys into space early on........

NASA has postponed the launch of the Mars Science Laboratory until 2011 because they couldn't solve all the engineering problems in time for a 2009 launch.

There's probably a business opportunity for someone to get back into the OTA antenna installation business, especially with the ability to sit at your computer using the 3D transmitter overlays in Google Earth to analyze their possibilities of reception without ever leaving your home.

Chuck

About all you can do with the old VCRs is connect them to the CECB video/audio outputs and set the VCR to record at a certain time. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think there is a way to program the CECB to change channels. That would have been a nice little addition but then I suppose people would really have been confused about the need to set up two boxes to record one program.

Back a few years ago lot's of individuals used the VCR PLUS to accomplish mutiple turn on, change channel, timed record of the VCR/Cable Box. I see that the codes are still in the Sac Bee tv guide



I'm having pretty good luck with my DTVPal DVR. It's not cheap compared to a VCR and it's got a few bugs but it mostly works for me.

I would consider that but I like to record same time different channels and move the recorded media to different TV's.....bedroom/RV etc.....Tape is great!!!!

Here's a link about VCR Plus but note the date!!!!
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-156780535.html




It's very common for people with indoor antennas to move them around to get the best picture. Here's another idea for people with indoor antennas trying to find a hot spot for their antenna with a digital station. Convert the AGC to a bar graph to show real signal strength. The AGC will show something even when the signal is not strong enough to lock. That would give some feedback to position the antenna. Unfortunately I can't think of any way to give feedback when there is too much multipath for the tuner to lock the signal. The signal quality meters need to be able to show signal-to-noise at ratios below which a picture can be displayed. I don't know if that's possible.

I agree, a bar graph showing real signal strength would be wonderful.....How about a pocket sized one....


Chuck

Have you seen this?????

http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/451140

A tuner on a chip!!!! That's pure wow factor.....Read the spec's.

Jim

... I have helped numerous OTA users over the past year....especially those that like to "RECORD THEIR SOAPS". You ought to hear what they have to say when you say, "You won't be able to change channels from 3-1 to 13-1 with most of these converter boxes when you want to record 3-1 at 1300 and 13-1 at 1500"...There are a lot of working GALS out there that like to record their, "SOAPS" that are in for a rude awakening...Is the RATH coming????There are some converters that can be controlled like a cable box from some VCRs. First you need a VCR that has cable box control, then you need a converter with remote codes that matches something the VCR knows.

I use a DVR most of the time for recording (although still use tape from time to time) that has 3 sets of LINE INPUTS. So I can simply connect 3 separate converters/tuners to the DVR, each set to a different channel. Make sure that you override the power save feature of the converter and have them set to the channel you want. Then schedule recordings by selecting different line inputs to match the channel you want, and leave each converter/tuner set to a dedicated channel. If you need more than 3 different channels, this doesn't work well.

Also, some converters have their own timers. In that case you have to set the converter to power on and select a specific channel, then also set the VCR to come on and make the recording. Not elegant, but a solution. My choice of converters for recording in SD is the Channel Master CM-7000 because it has a S-Video output. It also has several different "screen size" selections, which you'll want to set depending on if what you are recording/watching is being broadcast in 4:3 or 16:9. There is a nice mid option.

Hi all, been lurking here for quite a while. I live one of the worst areas of the Sacramento county for tv reception, the hilly tree'd area of Fair Oaks. Besides that I'm on the back side of one of the higher hills of Sacramento county. My antenna actually does reach above the peak of the hill but has to look through a couple of trees. Most channels are struggling digitally but analog is pretty good.

How's the reception been for all of you.I am also in Fair Oaks; my closest major intersection is Hazel & Madison. I have been watching digital OTA for several years now. Generally speaking I have no complaints and receive San Francisco stations in analog more than 90% of the time. Digital from San Francisco is still unpredictable, but I expect that to change once they move to higher antenna locations and finalize power and channels.

I am using Radio Shack's best antenna, mounted about 20' above my roof. My house is on a slight hill, but not at the highest point. I am using good quality RG-6 (not Radio Shack) to a winegard amplifier that feeds the entire house. Tuners range from the original RCA DTC-100 to the CM-7000 converter and lots of stuff in between. Strongest digital channels are 3 (35), 6 (53), 10 (61), 13 (25), 19 (18), 29 (48), 31 (21), 40 (55), 58 (46) & 64 (63).

And what's amazing is that channel 19-1 is <>98.Why is that amazing? It seems normal to me.

.....There are several areas in which they've fallen down on the job. One is to explain the difference between analog and digital reception. Maybe it's too confusing for the average person to understand, but they need to try.....

Chuck

IMHO, there are three important DTV topics on which the media has failed to educate the public. One of them is very basic: the channel numbers you see on your tuner are not the channels (frequencies) being transmitted by that station, which becomes vital in selecting an antenna. Among the many that I've helped with DTV, especially senior citizens relying on age-old outside antennas or telescoping VHF rabbit ears, that's the number one confusion factor that they struggle with.

The other two are less important now and could be dealt with via announcements a few days close to the cutover date, if the stations will actually do it: (1) related to the above issue, the fact that 6 and 10 in our area are reverting to VHF, further compounding the antenna choice issue, and (2) the need for everyone with an ATSC tuner-equipped device (modern TV set, CECB, p.c. card, DTVPal DVR, etc.) will need to do a rescan on the morning after the cutover or else several of their now familiar DTV channels are going to be mysteriously missing.

It will be interesting to see how well the stations, with or without government support, deal with those matters before the cutover.

Interesting side note: I see that the DTVPal DVR is now marked "sold out" on their web site: http://www.dtvpal.com/

I don't believe TVGOS has any program information in it yet. It is supposed to contain 8 days of information but most stations are showing no more than 1 day of information except 10 and 31 which have 7 days. I think I'm just seeing PSIP program information. I hope Bob will have some news about this one of these days.

Chuck
I have not replied to this post, and others involving the TVGOS, because I have had nothing to report. A lot has been going on behind the scenes. As soon as I have something to report I will do so.

I can tell you that the TVGOS systems does not rely on locally generated PSIP.

That is as far as I wish to go at this point.

Bob
www.cbs13.com/blogs

Here's another idea for people with indoor antennas trying to find a hot spot for their antenna with a digital station. Convert the AGC to a bar graph to show real signal strength. The AGC will show something even when the signal is not strong enough to lock. That would give some feedback to position the antenna.
Chuck

My Insignia converter box (from Best Buy) has a "Signal Strength" bar available from the remote control, and it's been very helpful in finding the right direction for my antenna to pull in the more distant stations. It has three colored sections - red, green and blue - left to right, and the signal has to reach the green area before a picture will be detected. It's amazing how just a couple of clicks on the rotor will change signal strength from the red to the green area.

My Sony XBR also has a Signal Strength value, noted in SNR, available from the menu. I need 15 db to get a picture, 17 db to decode PSIP information.

It's interesting that even with all of the Walnut Grove transmitters being within a mile or so of each other, I have to move my CM4228 as much as 6 degrees to get the best signals from the various stations up there.

Larry
SF

I have not replied to this post, and others involving the TVGOS, because I have had nothing to report. A lot has been going on behind the scenes. As soon as I have something to report I will do so.

I can tell you that the TVGOS systems does not rely on locally generated PSIP.

That is as far as I wish to go at this point.

Bob
www.cbs13.com/blogs

Thanks for keeping us updated. I do look forward to the day that it works as I think it will be much nicer and more consistent than the PSIP info.

Chuck

It looks like 10-4 and 13-4 was gone from the Channel lineup. Is it officially gone?

I don't expect any of the Sacramento broadcasters to pay any attention to this but I'm writing it anyway.

I think it is a disservice to the remaining analog only viewers for all the stations in one market, and especially all the major network stations, to keep their analog transmitters on through June 12th. The idea of the delay is give people more time to get switched to digital. But I think most of us agree that those who have not switched despite a years worth of PSAs are procrastinators of some sort and most of which will do nothing until they absolutely have to.

The way to encourage these people to switch to digital is for them to lose a couple of the stations they watch every week. Once that happened most of them would do something to get their programs back. For those sticking to OTA, once they do their initial scan, most would get all the stations in digital and they'd be switched. Those that encountered problems would still have time to choose an alternative before they lost all their analog stations.

The loss of a couple of stations would motivate the procrastinators to do something while meeting Congress' desire for them not to lose access to emergency information.

The best candidates in the Sacramento market to do this are channels 3 and 13 since shutting off analog involves no channel changes or adjacent market coordination. The best candidates in the San Francisco market look to be channels 5 and 9 for the same reasons. I realize that San Francisco has had a couple of stations switch off analog or start nightlight, but none are major network stations. The casual analog viewer could easily miss them.

At this point I don't believe that another 4 months of PSAs will do much to get the remaining people ready for analog shutoff. A next level step needs to taken to provide further motivation. Losing a couple major network stations would be that step.

Chuck

I like the plan Chuck, it seems people need some serious consquences (i.e. not just a 5 minute digital test, but really taking analog offline) before they'll bother.

It looks like 10-4 and 13-4 was gone from the Channel lineup. Is it officially gone?
Still there. Construction is done as of today. We will probably them down sometime next week, once we are sure all cable companies, MATV systems, hospital systems, and hotel systems have switched back.

Bob

Turns out something did change out here in the valley on Feb. 18th. KBSV is on their new transmitter in a new location. The old transmitter was 7.7KW in the valley at 220' elevation. The new transmitter is west of Hwy 5 at 3300' and only 421 watts..... but what a signal up here! Signal quality 92 and SNR 28 dB and 69 miles away. Must be LOS. Too bad I don't speak whatever language they speak there. :)

For anyone interested they map analog 23 to digital 15 and their new coverage area extends to north of Stockton.

This really tells me what a poor location I'm in for Walnut Grove since none of those stations give me numbers like these despite running at least 1000 times the power and 15 miles closer.

Chuck

Are you saying they map to 15-1?

Armenian, by the way. :)

- Trip

Yes, 15-1. And that's what language it is. I've never heard it anywhere else.

I've worked Armenia on 40-10M though. :)

Chuck - AA6G

KQED has a rather good 26 minute video that anyone can watch on line for DTV conversion explanations and show-and-tell on CECB installation and operation. This video covers the subject better than anything I've seen on the other channels (they even mention rescanning after the conversion date--a first!).

This is a good resource for anyone (Internet equipped) who might benefit from a much better DTV presentation than one can get on those brief segments during the five o'clock news. There is only one caveat: the film was made before the June extension, so anyone you send to this should be advised to substitute "June 12th" every time they hear "February 17th."

http://www.kqed.org/tv/help/dtv-transition.jsp

Side note, from the same web page: the coupon application cutoff date is now July 31st. Expired unused coupons can be replaced with new ones.

The nightlight KICU analog on 36 is running a 10 minute spot that also mentions re-scanning. It also promotes the use of a flat VHF/UHF antenna that I didn't recognize, but I guess it is probably the most aesthetically pleasing antenna design, so it might be something that people would actually try in different locations in the living room.

Turns out something did change out here in the valley on Feb. 18th. KBSV is on their new transmitter in a new location. The old transmitter was 7.7KW in the valley at 220' elevation. The new transmitter is west of Hwy 5 at 3300' and only 421 watts.

Chuck

For clarity's sake, they're running 421 watts from 575.6 meters or 1888 feet HAAT. The 3300 feet is their height above sea level.

I tried to get them here in SF and got no signal at all. East Bay hills must be blocking the signal.

Larry
SF

For clarity's sake, they're running 421 watts from 575.6 meters or 1888 feet HAAT. The 3300 feet is their height above sea level.

I tried to get them here in SF and got no signal at all. East Bay hills must be blocking the signal.

Larry
SF

Absolutely true but I believe the height above sea level is the more important number since that ultimately determines how far a station can see line of sight. At 576m the distance to the horizon is 54 miles while at 1005m it is 71 miles. Here's a little on-line calculator for that:

http://newton.ex.ac.uk/research/qsystems/people/sque/physics/horizon/?h=1005&r=6378.14&d_s=113.230&d_c=113.218

My antennas are at 805m which gives me 63 miles to the horizon. Under ideal circumstances, a station at 3300' above sea level would still be line of sight at 134 miles. I'm sure this is the reason that KSBW is so strong here at 115 miles and I can receive KION much of time at 133 miles. I have a very clear view in that direction.

Chuck

No, height above sea level doesn't tell you much of anything. HAAT is a much more important number.

Example. The Denver TV stations are on mountains 7000 feet above sea level. Wow, you say, they must have huge coverage! Well, not really, because the surrounding plains areas are at 5000 feet above sea level.

Now HAAT is not perfect, and I'll be the first to admit that. There's a 3500 foot height difference in my house and Poor Mountain in Roanoke, whereas the FCC has those stations with HAAT numbers around 2000 feet, thus artificially limiting their coverage contours. But it's a lot more accurate than using height above sea level.

- Trip

In this case the average elevation of the central valley of California is only slightly above sea level so elevation above sea level of the transmitting antenna is a usefull number for the vast majority of viewers.

No, height above sea level doesn't tell you much of anything. HAAT is a much more important number.

- Trip

Yes, I am aware of the varying situations around the country. I've only been doing this since 1969. ;) This is the Sacramento OTA thread where the majority of people live near sea level. In fact the majority of people in California live near sea level and receive TV from antennas on towers on mountains, or in the case of Sacramento, very tall towers. If I lived in Denver I would have adjusted my comments accordingly, including the examples of distance to the horizon for various stations.

Chuck

In this case the average elevation of the central valley of California is only slightly above sea level so elevation above sea level of the transmitting antenna is a usefull number for the vast majority of viewers.
Did you know that the ground elevation of the KOVR/KXTV tower, as surveyed is exactly sea level? Height above average terrain is generally about the same as the height of the antenna.

2,049' - Overall height of tower above ground
2,049' - Overall height of tower above sea level
2,001' - Height of antenna of average terrain. This is usually measured from the center of the antenna, which is always lower than the top of the tower.

Bob

Yes, I am aware of the varying situations around the country. I've only been doing this since 1969. ;) This is the Sacramento OTA thread where the majority of people live near sea level. In fact the majority of people in California live near sea level and receive TV from antennas on towers on mountains, or in the case of Sacramento, very tall towers. If I lived in Denver I would have adjusted my comments accordingly, including the examples of distance to the horizon for various stations.

Chuck

Of course, I'm just saying. :)

- Trip

Bob, I loved your blog entry from yesterday. Quite informative too, even though I have a big roof antenna.

Anyone else missing 10-1? Thats the only digital channel I am missing in Sac. Doesn't show up on all three of my D* HR20s, my HP computer's tuner or the tuner of my Vizio. Problem doesn't seem to be on my end and since we are in the middle of a heavy storm, there is no way I am going up on the roof to try to adjust the signal.

Anyone else missing 10-1? Thats the only digital channel I am missing in Sac. Doesn't show up on all three of my D* HR20s, my HP computer's tuner or the tuner of my Vizio. Problem doesn't seem to be on my end and since we are in the middle of a heavy storm, there is no way I am going up on the roof to try to adjust the signal.\

KXTV has been shutting down during the day for tower work. Try it again this evening.

[QUOTE=spwace;15894885]\

KXTV has been shutting down during the day for tower work. Try it again this evening.[/QU


thanks

The Zenith converter box has been picking up a tone and test pattern on 58-2 for several hours tonight. It is labeled as KQCA SD. KCRA did an SD handshake awhile back too. Maybe some work on that tower to follow. Nice weather forecast for tomorrow.

Bob, I loved your blog entry from yesterday. Quite informative too, even though I have a big roof antenna.
Thanks, Garrett.

Tower construction was done as of Thursday. I will be posting some final pictures soon.

Bob
www.cbs13.com/blogs

The Zenith converter box has been picking up a tone and test pattern on 58-2 for several hours tonight. It is labeled as KQCA SD. KCRA did an SD handshake awhile back too. Maybe some work on that tower to follow. Nice weather forecast for tomorrow.

I am also receiving this new subchannel. I admit I got kind of excited when this new channel popped up. Hopefully they will add programming from one of the many new networks.

Attached is a screen shot of what is airing on the new subchannel for those who are interested or are outside of the Sacramento market.

My tuner identifies 58.2 as "This TV". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_TV

My tuner identifies 58.2 as "This TV". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_TV

Looks like it might be the new MGM channel I was hearing about some months ago. It could be interesting. I wonder when it's going to start? I haven't heard a peep about it on either KCRA or KQCA.

Chuck

Looks like it might be the new MGM channel I was hearing about some months ago. It could be interesting. I wonder when it's going to start? I haven't heard a peep about it on either KCRA or KQCA.

Chuck

Here's some more detail. Very interesting....

http://www.examiner.com/p-290421~MGM___Weigel_Broadcasting_s__THIS_TV__Hits_60__Cleara nce_Mark__Concluding_Deals_With_Key_Stations_From_Tribune_Br oadcasting_Company.html

Side note: I wonder what that scrolling black line is for? It descends from top to bottom in about 40 seconds. I thought at first it might be a screen saver, but it passes behind the "KCRA & KQCA" banner. ???

KCRA/KQCA have a link to thisTV on their home page but it's broken:

http://www.kcra.com/my58-thistv/index.html

Chuck

10.4 and 13.4 are history.

Bob

10.4 and 13.4 are history.

Bob

Yet the microwave fade problem on 13.1 was horrible last night (during the first half hour of CSI). I had to switch from OTA to Comcast feed to even watch. I thought all the antenna work was to fix this? Or is that another project?

Edit: BTW you may want to inform the staff because, as of this Sunday morning, Good Day Sacramento is still running a message in their news crawl that M-F 7:30a-4:30p CBS13-1 will be seen on 13-4 in SD channel scan may be necessary... You're Welcome :)

My tuner identifies 58.2 as "This TV". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_TV

My 58 signal was breaking up today, but for while there was a movie (Up the Creek?) on 58.2 with a bug in the corner that said "this SACRAMENTO".

Sure enough, it's launched! The link I gave above is no longer broken.

Chuck

This is an interesting take on DTV...

"the most valuable air waves on God’s Green Earth will continue to be occupied by digital TV signals that few watch and none need, to provide a prop for a cosy deal between policy makers and broadcasters."

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/51d7ce52-052b-11de-8166-000077b07658.html

Is free TV dead, or do people just not know that can take advantage of it?

Yet the microwave fade problem on 13.1 was horrible last night (during the first half hour of CSI). I had to switch from OTA to Comcast feed to even watch. I thought all the antenna work was to fix this? Or is that another project?

Edit: BTW you may want to inform the staff because, as of this Sunday morning, Good Day Sacramento is still running a message in their news crawl that M-F 7:30a-4:30p CBS13-1 will be seen on 13-4 in SD channel scan may be necessary... You're Welcome :)
No microwave fading last night. Never on a rainy night. Fading takes place when there is a thermal inversion.

Might be water in your coax or your antenna blowing around.

Yes, we are aware of the crawl. It was fixed around 8 AM.

No microwave fading last night. Never on a rainy night. Fading takes place when there is a thermal inversion.

Might be water in your coax or your antenna blowing around.

Yes, we are aware of the crawl. It was fixed around 8 AM.

He was referring to the night of the 26th when we did have a brief high pressure between storms. I noticed strong inversions on both the 26th and 27th which gave me fits up here. I didn't watch CSI so I don't know about that.

Chuck

Sure enough, it's launched! The link I gave above is no longer broken.
My 58 signal is dancing all over the place (77.6, 41, 0, 77.6, etc). What's that mean?

Signal-eating trees slicing it up?

Any one else having fits with the PSIP on 40 tonight? It seems every few minutes it decides to change channels. I gave up and am now watching on analog. (yeech).

Any one else having fits with the PSIP on 40 tonight? It seems every few minutes it decides to change channels. I gave up and am now watching on analog. (yeech).

Yep, it blacked out on me a few times and even the comcast hd feed was affected. Not sure if my recording of 24 came out good or not, find out when I go back to watch.

Signal-eating trees slicing it up?

No trees nearby. It seems fine today. I don't know what to make of it.

Edit: Now the signal is bouncing again. Every other channel is solid. Could this be related to my antenna pre-amp (Channel Master Spartan 3)? Water in the antenna-mounted portion?

...
Is free TV dead, or do people just not know that can take advantage of it?

The later I think. When people come over and watch my TV they want to know why their cable and Sat TV don't look as good. When they find out its OTA they act like it went away with the last ice age.

Any one else having fits with the PSIP on 40 tonight? It seems every few minutes it decides to change channels.

I recorded and watched "24" OTA on a Series 3 TiVo -- didn't have any problems (though the TiVo seems to ignore most PSIP issues).

We are currently on our low power backup transmitter (KOVR) due to a power failure. Appreciate any signal reports. We just got this going about a month ago.

Bob

I'm just under 30 miles from the towers and have significant tree blockage in the direction of Walnut Grove. My Samsung has been good for the last half hour though the signal is down a whopping 66%, this using a Silver Sensor indoors. At a less favorable window, my Zenith 900 has managed 50% signal at best with audio/video dropouts over 50% of the time. We don't have all that much wind today.

OK, you guys can beat me up on this one. Except Hammer. He doesn't count.

Operator error tonight. Lost the first 8 minutes of prime due to a satellite receiver on the wrong channel.

That would be 8 minutes of HD. 4x3 upconvert instead.

^^ You should know by now- I never have, and never will comment on problems that may, or may not, happen when a network is showing re-runs, because I won't be tuning in. So go ahead and throw that party at the end of the cbs season.

Bob, so that's why NCIS is 4:3? Also the signal here in Martinez is probably the best I've had from KOVR in a long time. Stay on the back-up ;>
Lee

I must be late to the party. NCIS is in 16:9 and the signal is just great - SNR 27. No inversions to mess me up tonight. Even KCRA has been solid.

Chuck

Power was restored sometime before 6p.m. Signals were just fine after dinner.

My 58 signal was breaking up today, but for while there was a movie (Up the Creek?) on 58.2 with a bug in the corner that said "this SACRAMENTO".I just saw a commercial for 'this' on 3.1 during the noon news. This morning I was getting tons of breakup (video & audio) on 58.2 while 58.1 was rock solid.

I live in Vallejo..I'm getting 2 Stations on analog 10 & 13...But I can't get those Channels in Digital...

Would all Sacramento Station's go 100% full power after 6/12

I live in Vallejo..I'm getting 2 Stations on analog 10 & 13...But I can't get those Channels in Digital...Would all Sacramento Station's go 100% full power after 6/12

From your location, it's probably more of a receiving antenna issue than a transmitting power issue. "10" and "13" DTV are currently on ch. 61 and 25 respectively, so the best UHF antenna you can muster may help. 10 digital reverts to 10 (actual) on June 13th, so you'll also need decent VHF elements on your antenna.

So on my Converter it Ch 61 & 25??

When I was at my brothers house in West Sac..I scanned my Box & 13 & 10 was 13.1 & 10.1...

So on my Converter it Ch 61 & 25??

When I was at my brothers house in West Sac..I scanned my Box & 13 & 10 was 13.1 & 10.1...

Where I come from I recently replaced by indoor antenna with a WineGuard antenna and I've got myself a good reception for channels 10 and 13 although it breaks up mostly from the nearby hills of Newman and Crows Landing. I do get channel 3/58, but since they operate out of the same tower, their reception is only 15/20% because of it's distance. BTW, with my satellite signals mainly from the east coast, effective today (3/4) the #8 market Atlanta was replaced with the #1 Market, NYC on Dish Network. Probably because the Atlanta Market wasn't as strong as NYC and the company in change of it wanted a higher quality of channels. What's next, SF market moves up to Seattle? :rolleyes: Oh well, it was fun as it lasted.

So on my Converter it Ch 61 & 25??

When I was at my brothers house in West Sac..I scanned my Box & 13 & 10 was 13.1 & 10.1...

Welcome to channel mapping. :)

You enter 13.1 and your box or TV tunes to 25.

Chuck

So on my Converter it Ch 61 & 25??

When I was at my brothers house in West Sac..I scanned my Box & 13 & 10 was 13.1 & 10.1...

No, your converter (or modern digital TV) will display those UHF channels as 10.1 and 13.1. "10.1" and "13.1" are the virtual channels, not the actual channels. The station sends a bitstream over the actual channel that makes your digital tuner display a familiar channel number, even though the actual transmit frequency is on another channel. Supposedly, that's less confusing to the general public, which is debatable.

Anyway, in your case, 61.1 and 25.1 are the actual channels (for now). See this link for a list of virtual and actual channels in our area.

http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html

thanks..

I'm just wondering...I new that anyways

I live in Vallejo..I'm getting 2 Stations on analog 10 & 13...But I can't get those Channels in Digital...

Would all Sacramento Station's go 100% full power after 6/12
13 is currently operating at full power.

Why am I having low signal problems with 3-1 & 13-1 when 31-1 comes in perfectly? 10-1 won't even scan into my TV. I'm in Pleasant Hill, CA by DVC. According to TVfool, they appear to be coming from the same distance and Azimuth within 2 degrees. The signal is different though, Path is all 1Edge. I'm using a Terk HDTVa.

31-1 NM(db): 25.7
31-1 Pwr(dBm): -65.2
3-1 NM(db): 23.4
3-1 Pwr(dBm): -67.5
10-1 NM(db): 26.1
10-1 Pwr(dBm): -64.8
13-1 NM(db): 24.8
13-1 Pwr(dBm): -66.1

Bob - Thanks

OTA1954 - What Anntanna are you using

Why am I having low signal problems with 3-1 & 13-1 when 31-1 comes in perfectly?

Once you don't have line-of-sight it is impossible to predict what you can receive and what you can't. Your signals are either too weak, too much multipath, or both. Your TVFool table says you need at least an attic antenna. I'd recommend a good outdoor antenna.

Chuck

Why am I having low signal problems with 3-1 & 13-1 when 31-1 comes in perfectly? 10-1 won't even scan into my TV. I'm in Pleasant Hill, CA by DVC. According to TVfool, they appear to be coming from the same distance and Azimuth within 2 degrees. The signal is different though, Path is all 1Edge. I'm using a Terk HDTVa.

31-1 NM(db): 25.7
31-1 Pwr(dBm): -65.2
3-1 NM(db): 23.4
3-1 Pwr(dBm): -67.5
10-1 NM(db): 26.1
10-1 Pwr(dBm): -64.8
13-1 NM(db): 24.8
13-1 Pwr(dBm): -66.1

Although you're not terribly distant from Walnut Grove, there are a lot of hills between you and there, so I wonder what your actual path is like. Also, your TVFool graphic doesn't show any of the WG channels in the green (indoor antenna) area. Those two facts argue against good reception with an indoor antenna for you, even a good one like the HDTVa.

I have the HDTVa at a location only about 14 miles from WG, and the reception on all channels is usually great, but occasionally marginal. With your distance and conditions, I'd be surprised if it was reliable on any channel.

As for channel 10.1, its way up there at 755 mhz while 31.1 is on 515 mhz. (Actual channels, that is.) The difference could be a stretch for the minimal UHF elements on your HDTVa. Maybe it'll improve on June 13th when you can pull out the HDTVa's VHF elements to get 10.1.

None of which explains why you're good on 31 and bad on 3 & 13, which are also in the 500 mhz range. But I'd still blame it on the terrain between you and WG, and your indoor antenna.

When it comes to multipath, the location of the channels as shown by TVFool doesn't really matter. I typically never have my Silver Sensor aimed in the direction of Walnut Grove. I rotate the antenna around 180 degrees when switching between channels 10 and 13 even. I believe those are on the same tower. If it works, it works.

Where I come from I recently replaced by indoor antenna with a WineGuard antenna and I've got myself a good reception for channels 10 and 13 although it breaks up mostly from the nearby hills of Newman and Crows Landing. I do get channel 3/58, but since they operate out of the same tower, their reception is only 15/20% because of it's distance. BTW, with my satellite signals mainly from the east coast, effective today (3/4) the #8 market Atlanta was replaced with the #1 Market, NYC on Dish Network. Probably because the Atlanta Market wasn't as strong as NYC and the company in change of it wanted a higher quality of channels. What's next, SF market moves up to Seattle? :rolleyes: Oh well, it was fun as it lasted.

The switch from Atlanta to New York locals was due to the fact that there were complaints regarding the picture quality of the signals that the ATL channels were providing.

Hi

I'm having real trouble with channel 13 (almost all the time) from the north part of Davis, CA

It will come in for a little while, but then freezes up and stops working

I'm using a ChannelMaster 4228 mounted on the roof

all the other locals
3.1, 6.1, 29.1, 31.1, 40.1 and 58.1 always come in fine - db over 30
10.1 is pretty good but usually around 29.6db

but 13? tonight it is between 40-60% and 9-15db -- mostly just frozen images- have to watch in, uh.. analog!!! yuk!

is it my antenna? do i need to aim it better? (but then why do all the others come in ok if the signal is from the same place?)

thanks for any help
todd

Todd,

You should be getting a great signal with that antenna in Davis. Best thing to do is to point it for the best picture from - ANALOG - channel 58. Try that and let us know if it works.

Bob Hess
Director, Broadcast Operations/Engineering
CBS13 KOVR / CW31 KMAX

Thanks Bob

I must be doing something wrong.. I have analog 58 coming in pretty well.. better than analog 3, anyways... I'm not sure if I am going to go on the roof again tonight!!

but still 13.1 is choppy at best - darn

I tried it on 2 separate tuners - one in my pc and one on my sharp tv - both give me the same results -

thanks agaiin
todd

but still 13.1 is choppy at best - darn



Any chance you're looking through a bunch of trees? They can destroy one channel and leave the rest alone.

Last year I set up my cousin in San Leandro with OTA, easy shot to SF, or so I thought. The antenna looked right through a line of huge eucalyptus trees. All the channels were fine except for KCSM on 43 which was a chopped up mess dancing around on my spectrum analyzer. Fortunately she didn't care about that channel.

Chuck

There is a tree, but I keep thinking it is just to the right of where I am aiming...

I think my next step will be to get a taller pole. The antenna is on the top of a 2 story house, though, so I was hoping it wasn't the trees...

thanks for the suggestion - now I have another project

todd

There is a tree, but I keep thinking it is just to the right of where I am aiming...

I think my next step will be to get a taller pole. The antenna is on the top of a 2 story house, though, so I was hoping it wasn't the trees...

thanks for the suggestion - now I have another project

todd
I have a similar problem (in Davis as well), but in my case the one channel I have trouble with is 58 DTV. There is a spindly tree near the edge of roof, and large trees several blocks away (see image below). Could either of those trees be the source of the problem?

Picture of antenna and trees (http://homepage.mac.com/rackerby/.Pictures/antenna-trees.jpg)

I got a taller pole for my 4228 - problem solved -- I guess it was the trees
the new one is about 8 feet taller -

t

I have a similar problem (in Davis as well), but in my case the one channel I have trouble with is 58 DTV. There is a spindly tree near the edge of roof, and large trees several blocks away (see image below). Could either of those trees be the source of the problem?

Picture of antenna and trees (http://homepage.mac.com/rackerby/.Pictures/antenna-trees.jpg)

Well, I took my pre-amp out of the picture (which I suspected was malfunctioning), and tilted the antenna upward slightly (how tall are those transmitter towers?), and 58 seems fine now. While I don't know which of these things fixed the problem, I don't really care. I apparently don't need the pre-amp. I'll cross my fingers and see how it goes.

Well, I took my pre-amp out of the picture (which I suspected was malfunctioning), and tilted the antenna upward slightly (how tall are those transmitter towers?), and 58 seems fine now. While I don't know which of these things fixed the problem, I don't really care. I apparently don't need the pre-amp. I'll cross my fingers and see how it goes.

I'm betting it was the preamp. They get overloaded fairly easily. The first preamp I tried here was worse than no preamp. It took me awhile to figure out that KUVS on 19 was overloading the preamp. I'm in a fringe area with a very long cable run so I HAD to have a preamp. The only way I could get one to work was to install a channel 19 notch filter. That completely solved the problem. I'm planning on removing it as we near June 12th so I can gain back the dB or so I lost.

Tilting your antenna wouldn't make any difference. The towers are about 2000' high. You're about 25 miles from the towers. Taking into account drop in apparent height due to curvature of the Earth, the antennas appear as 0.7 degrees above the horizon. The vertical beamwidth of your antenna is 10's of degrees.

Chuck

Bob,

At 7:37 there was a huge video drop. Screen went black, etc. Same thing happened last Monday during CSI:Miami. Any ideas?

S~

The past three new episodes of Deperate Housewives (Sundays, 9 PM, KXTV) have suffered dropouts during the broadcast. Prior to last night, we were watching via OTA and there was about a 5 to 10 second drop of audio, both times at around the 20 minute mark in the one-hour program.

Last night we were watching via Comcast and there was a total audio/video dropout at the 50 minute mark, lasting maybe 5 - 10 seconds again. As soon as it failed I grabbed the remote to switch over to OTA, but it had restored by the time I got there. I re-ran the Comcast segment with the DVR with the same result: several seconds of black screen at about 9:50 PM.

I'm accustomed to random DTV glitches on almost any channel now and then, but the consistency of failures during this one network program seems more than a coincidence. Anyone have an idea?

We had the same black screen on Desperate Housewives on Comcast. I haven't had a chance to hang an OTA antenna in the new house yet so I don't know about that side of things.

Bob,

At 7:37 there was a huge video drop. Screen went black, etc. Same thing happened last Monday during CSI:Miami. Any ideas?

S~
I assume PM. What day? I'm reading this on Monday afternoon.

Well, I took my pre-amp out of the picture (which I suspected was malfunctioning), and tilted the antenna upward slightly (how tall are those transmitter towers?), and 58 seems fine now. While I don't know which of these things fixed the problem, I don't really care. I apparently don't need the pre-amp. I'll cross my fingers and see how it goes.
I agree with Chuck. I generally recommend against preamps on outdoor antennas when you are as close to the transmitters as Davis.

Bob

I assume PM. What day? I'm reading this on Monday afternoon.

Sorry Bob,

Last night (Sunday). It lasted for at least 5 seconds. Audio remained.

S~

Sorry Bob,

Last night (Sunday). It lasted for at least 5 seconds. Audio remained.

S~
Some discussion within the company about this issue. Not sure what happened at this point.

We had the same black screen on Desperate Housewives on Comcast. I haven't had a chance to hang an OTA antenna in the new house yet so I don't know about that side of things.

This particular dropout (Sun. 3/8) may just be a Comcast problem. Not sure. I went back and re-ran the recording on the DVR. The dropout occurred at the 47 minute mark and continued for *27* seconds. That's longer than it took me to shift over to OTA, which was good as soon as I got there. So I'm dubious about this being related to the audio dropout previously observed via OTA on this program (two episodes prior to 3/8).

Next Sunday we'll have the big set on Comcast and the little office rig on the CECB, and we'll see what happens. Observations from any other Desperate Housewives viewers will be welcome. (You can claim that your wife makes you watch it.)

I can not help you with the housewives but I did watch the show after it OTA with no problems seen.

Channel 13-1 has turned into CRAP over the past few weeks.

And now 13-4 (the backup channel) is GONE??? WTF.....that was a good reliable signal whenever the main HDTV channel went dead.

10-1 still sucks like it always did..........and now 10-4 (the grainy backup) is gone too!

Channel 13-1 has turned into CRAP over the past few weeks.

And now 13-4 (the backup channel) is GONE??? WTF.....that was a good reliable signal whenever the main HDTV channel went dead.

10-1 still sucks like it always did..........and now 10-4 (the grainy backup) is gone too!

How to get answers to your questions on this forum:

(1) Read the previous posts (where, in fact your concerns above have been answered).

(2) Since this group generally participates in objective, adult, technically-oriented review and discussion of its core topic, you might want to consider avoiding the use of insulting, vague terms like those you've used above.

Just a little friendly advice that can keep you from being ignored here. Take it or not, as you wish.

Some discussion within the company about this issue. Not sure what happened at this point.

Thanks for the response, Bob. Hope you all find the answer.

S~

Thanks for the response, Bob. Hope you all find the answer.

S~
Well, since it appears to be a CBS issue, I hope they find the answer.

Channel 13-1 has turned into CRAP over the past few weeks.

And now 13-4 (the backup channel) is GONE??? WTF.....that was a good reliable signal whenever the main HDTV channel went dead.

10-1 still sucks like it always did..........and now 10-4 (the grainy backup) is gone too!

I rarely have problems with 10. Except for the two video blackouts on 13, I haven't had any problems with KOVR, either. Never have a problem with 31.

I see and hear more problems with 3 and 40 lately. KCRA has several issues going on. One is crackling audio. The other is there is a growth in the lag between the PTC and the STC. Basically, the time stamps grow out of whack gradually until the 622 software skips video frames to compensate. This has been going on for years.

40 seems to be suffering from fading off and on. I had to watch last Friday's Sara Conner Chronicles off the website. Doll House was fine. A couple brief fades during 24 Monday. Sunday was fine.

As Ron said, come here with objective observations and the engineers that come here will address them. Bob is one of the best. Haven't seen Jack in a while. Is he still around?

S~

Is this just a worthless SD channel / bandwidth muncher???

Anyways, I'd like to see it added to TitanTv online schedule. Please leave a comment here http://ww2.titantv.com/ttv/menu/contact.aspx

I'm trying to get Dish to add it to their guide, too, although it's not looking promising.

S~

In case anyone is wondering, we were asked by the Network to upconvert tonight due to some distribution issues.

Bob

Bob,

The black screen appeared again at 7:51 Last Night (Th.). This time there was no audio, either. Probably last a good 5-10 seconds.

S~

I've been dvr'ing/watching The Bonnie Hunt show on KCRA-DT 3.1 since it started. I noticed they have been showing it in 4x3 since the beginning, but I tuned in one day this week (Wednesday or Thursday) and it was 16x9. Unfortunately it only lasted one day because now it is back to 4x3! According to a thread in the Programming forum the NBC feed is indeed 16x9 (SD). I'm wondering why they are not passing it through in 16x9 everyday? I know they could because I saw them do it one day this week. It makes me wonder what other shows they are not passing through in their original aspect on a daily basis???

I sent out an email to several KCRA contacts, if anyone wants to send them comments I can PM their contact info...

EDIT: Already got a response from KCRA, fastest on record: We are not equipped to handle 16:9 SD through our plant for programming. We had to jump through hoops to make this happen the other day. The 4:3 SD version of the show had problems. We have no plans to support 16:9 SD programming at this point and have asked providers to provide HD (even if it is 16:9 SD upconverted) if they would like us to carry the 16:9 version of their shows. This may change in the future but today only the Bonnie Hunt show is this way in our line up. If you remember the Mike and Juliet show we use to air, it was distributed as HD to the stations. They did the upconvert.

Bob,

The black screen appeared again at 7:51 Last Night (Th.). This time there was no audio, either. Probably last a good 5-10 seconds.

S~
Distribution issues in NYC.

It happened again tonight. There was a 38 second loss of A-V on Desperate Housewives at 9:26 PM. This is the 4th episode in a row that has suffered such a dropout. Noticed both via OTA plus Comcast. This is now much more than a coincidence. I sent an inquiry via the KXTV web site.

BTW, I had to change my log-in name on this forum. Someone else just joined with virtually the exact same ID; close enough that you couldn't really tell the difference. Not good.

--Ron (ex: Ron W)

I am trying to figure out if I have a problem with my DVR or it is just the beginning of the digital transition, or both. When the time changed to DST, some recordings went much longer than they should have. I blamed that problem on the DVR.

Then as of about THUR 3/12 my DVR reports that it is searching for new guide data because of changes I made (except I hadn't made any). This happened once in the past and 24 hours later all was back to normal. Now it's been at least 3 days and the DVR has no TVGoS data.

My question; are local analog stations (still) broadcasting this data? I am using a Sony RDR-HX715 which I find otherwise an excellent machine.
Thanks in advance.

My question; are local analog stations (still) broadcasting this data? I am using a Sony RDR-HX715 which I find otherwise an excellent machine.
Thanks in advance.

I'm using the DTVPal DVR and I've never seen TVGOS program info from KOVR, only the time part. I only see PSIP program info. I've been waiting for Bob to tell us when TVGOS would be transmitted.

Chuck

I'm using the DTVPal DVR and I've never seen TVGOS program info from KOVR, only the time part. I only see PSIP program info. I've been waiting for Bob to tell us when TVGOS would be transmitted.

ChuckI am not talking about TVGuide data via ATSC channels (I get that on my Channel Master Converter), I am talking about TVGuide data sent via VBI of analog stations. It was working perfectly until the time change to DST. Then the DVR 'got confused' and later in the week the guide data disappeared.

Is anyone familiar with C & S Television in Roseville? If so, please send me a private email. I have a viewer complaint and just wanted some additional information.

Bob

Is anyone familiar with C & S Television in Roseville? If so, please send me a private email. I have a viewer complaint and just wanted some additional information.

Bob

5448 Roseville Rd
North Highlands
CA 95660
916-726-6660

I've been in there a few times, but don't know anyone personally...

5448 Roseville Rd
North Highlands
CA 95660
916-726-6660

I've been in there a few times, but don't know anyone personally...
Thanks. Sorry to ask about this on this forum. Sometimes someone can complain about a perfectly good vendor and sometimes the vendor is worthy of the complaint, so I am not in any way trying to say anything bad about the place. In this case, it was an elderly woman who called and we have been trying to assist her.

I am not talking about TVGuide data via ATSC channels (I get that on my Channel Master Converter), I am talking about TVGuide data sent via VBI of analog stations. It was working perfectly until the time change to DST. Then the DVR 'got confused' and later in the week the guide data disappeared.Welcome to the club!
AFAIK, The TVGOS analog VBI was being broadcast by KVIE PBS-6 but for some reason had stopped as of 3/12. The digital TVGOS is supplied by KOVR 13-1 (broadcast on 25).

The most active thread concerning TVGOS issues is Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=537711&page=487)
My thread is TVGOS ( TV Guide On Screen ) Devices (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1122914)

It happened again tonight. There was a 38 second loss of A-V on Desperate Housewives at 9:26 PM. This is the 4th episode in a row that has suffered such a dropout. Noticed both via OTA plus Comcast. This is now much more than a coincidence. I sent an inquiry via the KXTV web site..........

Coincidence? Last night during Dancing With the Stars, KXTV dropped audio at virtually the exact same minute as on Sunday, 9:26 pm.

We know a lot about KOVR ops thanks to Bob, but KXTV seems to be less forthcoming. (No response to my inquiry above.) Anyone have an "in" with KXTV? This consistent dropout problem during the 9 PM hour does not inspire confidence in "10" after their analog backup dies in June.

--Ron

Coincidence? Last night during Dancing With the Stars, KXTV dropped audio at virtually the exact same minute as on Sunday, 9:26 pm.

We know a lot about KOVR ops thanks to Bob, but KXTV seems to be less forthcoming. (No response to my inquiry above.) Anyone have an "in" with KXTV? This consistent dropout problem during the 9 PM hour does not inspire confidence in "10" after their analog backup dies in June.

--Ron

I watched DWTS last night OTA and heard no audio dropouts. I may have had the audio muted at 9:26 so can not say for sure. Is anyone else getting audio dropouts from KXTV at 9:26? I formerly worked at KXTV and have phone numbers for the remaining people on the maintenance staff if there is a problem.

The FCC has required all full power stations that have not yet transitioned to file a Termination of Analog Service form by the end of today. I looked through the 29 stations I could think of in the Sacramento, SF, and Monterey markets that have not yet transitioned. All stations will terminate analog on June 12th and not offer nightlite service with the following exceptions:

KCRA, KVIE, & KNTV will offer nightlite service. KQET has requested early termination on May 9th.

As of this writing, forms are not posted yet for KMTP and KTXL.

Chuck

For those who are interested, I will try to keep my blog updated with times and teams for the first few sets of March Madness games.

www.cbs13.com/blogs

Bob

I recorded Terminator last week and noticed it was 4:3. American Idol is 4:3 this evening. Does anyone know what's going on at KTXL 40?

Coincidence? Last night during Dancing With the Stars, KXTV dropped audio at virtually the exact same minute as on Sunday, 9:26 pm.

We know a lot about KOVR ops thanks to Bob, but KXTV seems to be less forthcoming. (No response to my inquiry above.) Anyone have an "in" with KXTV? This consistent dropout problem during the 9 PM hour does not inspire confidence in "10" after their analog backup dies in June.

--Ron

I watched DWTS from 9 to 10 tonight and saw a minor video glitch a couple of minutes in but no other problems with the audio or video. There was definitely not a problem with the audio at 9:26. This was watching OTA.

I recorded Terminator last week and noticed it was 4:3. American Idol is 4:3 this evening. Does anyone know what's going on at KTXL 40?

I tuned to KTXL-DT on Comcast a few minutes after this was posted and found the show to be in HD.

I recorded Terminator last week and noticed it was 4:3. American Idol is 4:3 this evening. Does anyone know what's going on at KTXL 40?

"Terminator" was in HD last week, as was "AI" tonight. :confused:

I watched DWTS from 9 to 10 tonight and saw a minor video glitch a couple of minutes in but no other problems with the audio or video. There was definitely not a problem with the audio at 9:26. This was watching OTA.

After seeing the comments here about the 9:26, I recorded DWTS tonight to see this for myself. I watched from 9:20-9:30, and didn't see or hear any problems.

Terminator was HD for me last week, also. No problems.

S~

After seeing the comments here about the 9:26, I recorded DWTS tonight to see this for myself. I watched from 9:20-9:30, and didn't see or hear any problems.

Same here; no problem observed on Tuesday during 9-10 PM. Was definitely there Sunday and Monday. Will be closely observing the "Desperate" hour next Sunday, since that program has glitched four times in a row. (However, the times were inconsistent, once at 9:26, once at 9:47, and twice that I didn't bother to record.)

--Ron

"Terminator" was in HD last week, as was "AI" tonight. :confused:
I guess it was the aspect ratio selection on my system. Sorry.

KXTV - ABC Channel 10 analog is intermittently broadcasting TVGOS data (appears to be ads only) tonight. I rescanned all my OTA channels and checked all analog channels tonight (starting at 0200 UTC time) and only ABC analog is broadcasting TVGOS data.

On Wednesday I conducted a "digital TV conversion" seminar at a local seniors center. Interesting experience! About 25% of the audience were OTA watchers and maybe half of them have already purchased ATSC-equipped sets or CECBs. In the latter group, almost none were having much success.

One who'd recently purchased a nice new TV complained of poor reception on all local channels (Walnut Grove). I asked about her antenna, and her response indicated it was on the roof on a 40-ft. mast, with a rotor. Such an antenna in Lodi would be literally within visual range of the WG towers, so why she'd be having any problem puzzled me at first. I wondered about her downlead and asked how long it's been since her antenna system was installed or maintained in any way. "About 25 years," she said. Hoo boy!

Then there was the guy with a new CECB who couldn't make it work. He tried his best to describe it to me, and his efforts seemed to indicate that there was only one F-type jack on the back panel--an input, but no output. (??) He described other connections, apparently not F-type. I wondered about A-V jacks; but in any case I couldn't fathom a CECB with only one RF connector. Does anyone know of such a box on the market?

Finally, the most common problem among the crowd with CECBs was trying to change channels with the TV set's remote. They tended to get wide-eyed wheh I told them to put their TVs on channel 4 and leave them there forever. I had to tell one old gal about five times to only change channels with the converter box remote. She finally smiled when she "got it."

All this after months and years of PSAs on every channel. There's an abundant need for OTA DTV education (and educators) out there.

On Wednesday I conducted a "digital TV conversion" seminar at a local seniors center. Interesting experience! About 25% of the audience were OTA watchers and maybe half of them have already purchased ATSC-equipped sets or CECBs. In the latter group, almost none were having much success.

One who'd recently purchased a nice new TV complained of poor reception on all local channels (Walnut Grove). I asked about her antenna, and her response indicated it was on the roof on a 40-ft. mast, with a rotor. Such an antenna in Lodi would be literally within visual range of the WG towers, so why she'd be having any problem puzzled me at first. I wondered about her downlead and asked how long it's been since her antenna system was installed or maintained in any way. "About 25 years," she said. Hoo boy!

Then there was the guy with a new CECB who couldn't make it work. He tried his best to describe it to me, and his efforts seemed to indicate that there was only one F-type jack on the back panel--an input, but no output. (??) He described other connections, apparently not F-type. I wondered about A-V jacks; but in any case I couldn't fathom a CECB with only one RF connector. Does anyone know of such a box on the market?

Finally, the most common problem among the crowd with CECBs was trying to change channels with the TV set's remote. They tended to get wide-eyed wheh I told them to put their TVs on channel 4 and leave them there forever. I had to tell one old gal about five times to only change channels with the converter box remote. She finally smiled when she "got it."

All this after months and years of PSAs on every channel. There's an abundant need for OTA DTV education (and educators) out there.
I speak to these groups. If you ever want me there, just say the word.

Also, thanks for posting this. Very helpful.

- Bob

Thanks. Sorry to ask about this on this forum. Sometimes someone can complain about a perfectly good vendor and sometimes the vendor is worthy of the complaint, so I am not in any way trying to say anything bad about the place. In this case, it was an elderly woman who called and we have been trying to assist her.

I have no knowledge about that particular business either, but I've been to businesses that often fail to properly communicate with customers. Some people speak down to any customer, assuming to be more knowledgeable, while others speak well beyond the knowledge of customers.

I am a nurse and many times it is similar between communications between patients and physicians. Physicians often speak above the heads of their patients and don't realize it and other times, patients ask questions and the physician answers with something that doesn't clarify anything. I try to bridge the gaps between patients and their physicians all the time.

When it comes to technology, I see many sales people that attempt to sell people stuff they don't need and other times they attempt to sell things the customer can't even use. If you live far away from any transmitters and you travel to the city to buy an antenna, the sales person may not understand where you live and try to sell you an antenna that works well in the city, but otherwise useless out in the country. Problems often revolve around miscommunication.

For those who have been on this forum for a while, you know all to well that we have had our share of problems with signal reliability on our digital side.

I have certainly felt and heard the wrath of many over-the-air, DirecTV and Dish viewers over the past years since I have been here (that would be viewers of CBS13). The issue with us, and in some cases some of the other stations, has been lack of emergency power, no backup transmitter and microwave fading. This affects the dish services since they pick up our signal off the air.

Well, we have made some improvements!

1 - Microwave fades have been killing us, primarily during the summer months. I announced some time ago that we had made a decision to re-engineer our microwave system by installing a dish at the 1,700 foot level of our tower. With bad weather and months of tower construction, this project has been delayed for at least a year. I am now happy to say that we have completed the project and it seems to be working. We now have receiving dishes at 600 and 1700 feet. There is a separate receiver associated with each dish. If the signal fades on one of the receivers, the system switches to the other receiver. You may see a tad bit of breakup when this happens, but nothing like you have seen in the past. I am fairly confident that this will provide much more reliable service to our viewers. We logged signal strength at the 1700 foot level last summer and did not see much signal variation at all.

2 - We have had a single, albeit fairly reliable, digital transmitter since we went on the air with a digital signal. We recently installed a low power backup transmitter that is capable of delivering about 20,000 watts effective radiated power which, although a fraction of our normal 760,000 watts, does put out a fairly good signal to outdoor antennas in the Stockton and Sacramento areas as well as to the Dish and DirecTV head-ends. This transmitter is powered by our generator.

3 - We have just purchased a new generator, jointly owned by Channels 10/13. Once installed, this generator will provide emergency power to our full power digital transmitters.

4 - We have just purchased a new digital transmitter, for our auxiliary tower site. This transmitter will be capable of operating on either channel 21 or 25, providing backup service for either CBS13 or CW31. We hope to have this operational around the end of the year.

Bob
www.cbs13.com/blogs

On Wednesday I conducted a "digital TV conversion" seminar at a local seniors center. Interesting experience!

Thanks for the insight into what you found at your local group.

I've helped a few of my neighbors and it's been amazing to find how little people know about OTA TV. I live 3/4 of a mile from Sutro Tower, so you'd think that people would wonder why is it there?... what's its purpose?... but some had no idea that it was transmitting TV signals and that with a simple indoor antenna they could get many digital stations and HD for free.

One neighbor has a 60 Sony SXRD and Comcast cable. He said he scanned when he got the set, but never connected an antenna to the RF input so got poor analog reception and a couple of digital stations, then forgot about it. He was amazed when I connected an antenna to the set, rescanned and found 42 digital channels. His set counts sub-channels as individual channels, but he was very impressed. He says he now watches OTA TV more than cable because it's much sharper.

Another neighbor has a beautiful 46 inch HDTV and had never seen an HD picture on it. She has TiVo... and no HD service. Her eyes popped out of her head when I tuned in an HD signal using an indoor antenna. We have another happy camper!

I could go on and on, but thought I'd share a couple examples to show, as you said, that education is definitely needed. I think it needs to be one on one though. They have to be shown what to do and how to do it.

Larry
SF

Bob,

Thanks for the update. Your effort and time here are greatly appreciated. Is DD for 31 on the agenda sometime soon?

Thanks,

S~

For those who have been on this forum for a while, you know all to well that we have had our share of problems with signal reliability on our digital side.

I have certainly felt and heard the wrath of many over-the-air, DirecTV and Dish viewers over the past years since I have been here (that would be viewers of CBS13). The issue with us, and in some cases some of the other stations, has been lack of emergency power, no backup transmitter and microwave fading. This affects the dish services since they pick up our signal off the air.

Well, we have made some improvements!

1 - Microwave fades have been killing us, primarily during the summer months. I announced some time ago that we had made a decision to re-engineer our microwave system by installing a dish at the 1,700 foot level of our tower. With bad weather and months of tower construction, this project has been delayed for at least a year. I am now happy to say that we have completed the project and it seems to be working. We now have receiving dishes at 600 and 1700 feet. There is a separate receiver associated with each dish. If the signal fades on one of the receivers, the system switches to the other receiver. You may see a tad bit of breakup when this happens, but nothing like you have seen in the past. I am fairly confident that this will provide much more reliable service to our viewers. We logged signal strength at the 1700 foot level last summer and did not see much signal variation at all.

2 - We have had a single, albeit fairly reliable, digital transmitter since we went on the air with a digital signal. We recently installed a low power backup transmitter that is capable of delivering about 20,000 watts effective radiated power which, although a fraction of our normal 760,000 watts, does put out a fairly good signal to outdoor antennas in the Stockton and Sacramento areas as well as to the Dish and DirecTV head-ends. This transmitter is powered by our generator.

3 - We have just purchased a new generator, jointly owned by Channels 10/13. Once installed, this generator will provide emergency power to our full power digital transmitters.

4 - We have just purchased a new digital transmitter, for our auxiliary tower site. This transmitter will be capable of operating on either channel 21 or 25, providing backup service for either CBS13 or CW31. We hope to have this operational around the end of the year.

Bob
www.cbs13.com/blogs

That's awesome, Bob!

Thanks for all you do and for keeping us informed.

Bob,

Thanks for the update. Your effort and time here are greatly appreciated. Is DD for 31 on the agenda sometime soon?

Thanks,

S~
Yes, but cannot say when at this point.

Yes, but cannot say when at this point.

Very good. Would be nice to watch Supernatural and Reaper with DD :D Glad to see 31 showing a few more HD movies, too.

S~

It happened again tonight. There was a 38 second loss of A-V on Desperate Housewives at 9:26 PM. This is the 4th episode in a row that has suffered such a dropout. Noticed both via OTA plus Comcast. This is now much more than a coincidence. I sent an inquiry via the KXTV web site.

"Housewives" made it all the way through with no dropouts last night, the first time in 5 episodes. I never got a reply from KXTV to my inquiry last Monday, but maybe the clean broadcast was the reply. We can hope.

--Ron

Bob,

Watched Rules of Engament Last night and there were lip sync issues. They are still present on the Early Show this morning. Could you check it out, please?

Thanks,

S~

Noticed during March Madness last weekend on CBS, that the Craig Ferguson Late Late Show promos were in HD. Is this show shot in HD just like Letterman's Show? And if so, why does CBS13 not pass along the show in HD? Just thought I would inquire. Thanks.

Jon
EG

I'm in Santa Rosa, and I had been getting good strong locks on KVIE up until about Feb. 17th. Now I can't seem to get a lock on it. Does anyone know if they're doing transition work of some kind?

- DFGY

Noticed during March Madness last weekend on CBS, that the Craig Ferguson Late Late Show promos were in HD. Is this show shot in HD just like Letterman's Show? And if so, why does CBS13 not pass along the show in HD? Just thought I would inquire. Thanks.

Jon
EG
Not shot in HD.

- Bob

I'm in Santa Rosa, and I had been getting good strong locks on KVIE up until about Feb. 17th. Now I can't seem to get a lock on it. Does anyone know if they're doing transition work of some kind?

- DFGY

They're good at responding to direct inquiries (two for two in my case). Try the "Contact Us" button on their home page: http://kvie.org/

--Ron

They're good at responding to direct inquiries (two for two in my case). Try the "Contact Us" button on their home page: http://kvie.org/

--Ron
Thanks Ron. Actually, I did do that a while ago, and you're right, they're very quick to respond, etc... I talked to the head of Engineering. He said there were no changes, but I find that hard to believe. Something has changed. I have gotten mis-information from them before(, although not this fellow). And I know that other Sac. stations are doing transition work that affects their signals - and I'm seeing that too. I guess I'm hoping to scare up other folks out there that are experiencing the same thing or maybe someone knows something about this long-distance issue. Maybe there's a large skyscraper in Vacaville now that's blocking signal?

- DFGY

Bob,

Thanks for keeping us informed.

Maybe there's a large skyscraper in Vacaville now that's blocking signal?

- DFGY

Now thats funny! Vacaville has no skyscrapers. :)

I'm in Santa Rosa, and I had been getting good strong locks on KVIE up until about Feb. 17th. Now I can't seem to get a lock on it. Does anyone know if they're doing transition work of some kind?

- DFGY

I just took a look at KVIE on my spectrum analyzer. They are the weakest station here from Walnut Grove but I would say their signal strength in nominal, nothing below average.

Chuck

For about the last month channel 13, for me, has been unwatchable. It seemed to start around the time of the proposed changeover in Feb. About half the time "no signal" and when it is coming in it has signal drop off every couple seconds- signal drops briefly from 80% to 0%. All other channels come in fine with the lowest at 80% signal strength and most at 100%. I'm ~ 40 miles SE of the Walnut Grove towers and have a big UHF Yagi in the attic (so it's not waving in the breeze). Using a Humax digital STB. No local obstructions in the direction of the towers.

It's been consistently bad and it's just channel 13. Is anyone else experiencing this?


Scott

No problems with 13 here. They are one of the easiest channels to receive. If you're getting 100% on digitals not yet at full power and dropouts on one that is at full power, I'd think tuner overload. Changing weather may be the cause.

For about the last month channel 13, for me, has been unwatchable. It seemed to start around the time of the proposed changeover in Feb. About half the time "no signal" and when it is coming in it has signal drop off every couple seconds- signal drops briefly from 80% to 0%. All other channels come in fine with the lowest at 80% signal strength and most at 100%. I'm ~ 40 miles SE of the Walnut Grove towers and have a big UHF Yagi in the attic (so it's not waving in the breeze). Using a Humax digital STB. No local obstructions in the direction of the towers.

It's been consistently bad and it's just channel 13. Is anyone else experiencing this?


Scott

I've noticed this too. For a while, 13.1 got weaker and weaker and then we had to switch to 13.2 and now we get none at all. Every other channel is pretty strong but I do notice some pixelation if a car drives by... I'm only 20 miles from the towers but I'm using a DB2 equivalent but it's indoors. I may try to get an outdoor antenna. Maybe living a block from Sacramento Executive Airport does affect it...

For about the last month channel 13, for me, has been unwatchable. It seemed to start around the time of the proposed changeover in Feb. About half the time "no signal" and when it is coming in it has signal drop off every couple seconds- signal drops briefly from 80% to 0%. All other channels come in fine with the lowest at 80% signal strength and most at 100%. I'm ~ 40 miles SE of the Walnut Grove towers and have a big UHF Yagi in the attic (so it's not waving in the breeze). Using a Humax digital STB. No local obstructions in the direction of the towers.

It's been consistently bad and it's just channel 13. Is anyone else experiencing this?


Scott

This sounds like trees in the path blowing around and chopping up the channel. I see the same sort of thing on KCRA here. It's the only channel affected in this manner. You say you have no obstructions but the roof is an obstruction. Are you sure from your antenna's vantage point that there are no trees at all for as far as you can see? At 40 miles the transmit antennas are about 1/4 degree above the horizon. It wouldn't take much to cause a problem. This is why it is important to get your antenna up above all the local ground clutter.

Chuck

For about the last month channel 13, for me, has been unwatchable. It seemed to start around the time of the proposed changeover in Feb. About half the time "no signal" and when it is coming in it has signal drop off every couple seconds- signal drops briefly from 80% to 0%. All other channels come in fine with the lowest at 80% signal strength and most at 100%. I'm ~ 40 miles SE of the Walnut Grove towers and have a big UHF Yagi in the attic (so it's not waving in the breeze). Using a Humax digital STB. No local obstructions in the direction of the towers.

It's been consistently bad and it's just channel 13. Is anyone else experiencing this?


Scott
Scott,

I'd like to know exactly where you are located.

Without knowing that, I would say that you are using an antenna that is WAY too directional for a distance of 40 miles from the towers. These antennas need to be pointed directly on target. If not, the side-lobes of the antenna will differ on each channel. In some cases, there will be a null (no signal) on one channel while there is gain on another channel. Point the antenna for the best possible signal on ANALOG channel 58 and that should help get the antenna directly on target.

I have been playing around with an indoor antenna in my office, which is on the opposite side of the building from the towers. The antenna looks through the entire KOVR/KMAX studio building and is located 25 miles from the tower. Yesterday, when we were operating on our 20,000 watt backup transmitter (our main transmitter operates at 760,000 watts), I was still able to receive a perfect picture (13.1) on the indoor antenna.

The point I am trying to make is that, unless you are directly behind a hill or large building, something is wrong with your antenna system. Either try pointing the antenna again or buy a Channel Master 4228.

I have some posts coming up on my blog about indoor antennas including an interesting comment from a viewer in Ripon (exactly 40 miles SE of the transmitter) who is using an indoor antenna. I may get one up today and the rest next week.

www.cbs13.com/blogs

Bob

Thanks for the interest and the replies.

I'm located a couple miles NW of Valley Home, CA, good luck finding that on a map, but it is about halfway between Farmington and Oakdale, just west of Woodward reservoir. Sorry, can't come up with GPS.

The antenna is just the UHF portion of a large antenna and about 7 feet long with a right angle reflector-was about all I could salvage after a big wind here in Jan '08 sent it crashing. It is about 10 feet above the ground in the attic. No amp.

Toward the tower for several miles is flat cow pasture. I'm a little above sea level here, may be about 150 ft. There is a eucalyptus tree close to the direction of the towers with one branch reaching toward the path but after trimming I didn't notice a change, still getting dropouts on 13-1.

Channels 13 and 31 come in with 80%, all others at 100%. I fiddled with the direction of the antenna quite a bit to get the signals that high, and just using the simple signal meter on the STB. I didn't think I'd have too much antenna at 40 miles out. I might try changing the direction of the antenna a little to see if that helps. As far as using analog 58 to tune, I haven't had anything that will tune in analog for several years.

One thing I noticed on TVFool not apparent on antennaweb is that my location is directly between the Walnut Grove towers (~43 miles NW) and, I think, Fresno stations (~96 miles SE) and wonder if you can get interference from the back lobe of the antenna. I'm not able to tune any of them though.

So if you think that's too much antenna, maybe I should try a smaller one in the attic (I like the attic 'cause there is a lot of lightning passes this way-hit my transformer pole a few years back). I'll have to have UHF and VHF come June anyway(unless they extend it again).

Sorta' P.S. Will a UHF yagi receive some of the upper VHF stations?

Thanks,

Scott

Like Bob and others, I've experimented a great deal with both attic and indoor antennas. One thing folks tend to forget about indoor antennas is that azimuth (direction it's pointed) is not the only important factor. This may sound weird, but the distance from the tower matters, too. At UHF frequencies, sliding the antenna a few inches in the direction of the tower can take it from a null to a peak on a channel's carrier wavelength. Doing that, I've watched the S-meter on my mom's set rise from about 50 to 65 or better on KVIE, using a Terk HDTVa at practically ground level. That's enough to get a good lock on a picture that was otherwise broken.

Then, the azimuth can be weird, too. She often gets KVIE to peak by pointing the Terk due west, about 20 degrees off from the true direction. Then, the next day it changes. Go figure.

Similar experience with the attic antenna--I mounted mine on a rotor (praise the gods) mainly because I didn't want to be crawling on those roof joists to make adjustments. I then found that distant stations (San Francisco for me) sometimes seemed to be coming in best at the wrong headings on the rotor.

The moral, in my experience, is never install a directional antenna in an attic without a rotor because you're going to be changing its heading a lot more than you'd guess. Similarly, be prepared to try odd movements with an indoor antenna to peak the signal, including sliding it *toward* the signal source. Finally, be prepared to adjust your antenna, in one parameter or another, practically every time you turn on the set.

--Ron

Scott,

The reason I suggested a tree in the path is that you described the problem as erratic changes in the signal quality, rapidly jumping around from 80% to 0%. Is this what is happening? If it is, then my money is still on trees. Even if you're not looking directly through the tree, if one is very close by it can still cause the problem. Trees will break up the signal into a multitude of signals and paths and cause the problem.

So here's a test. Check channel 13 when it's dead calm to see if the signal meter is stable. If it is, then that points to the tree.

I forgot to mention, I wouldn't expect your UHF antenna to work very good on high VHF. How do analog channels 10 & 13 look now with it?

Chuck

I just took a look at KVIE on my spectrum analyzer. They are the weakest station here from Walnut Grove but I would say their signal strength in nominal, nothing below average.

Chuck
Thanks for doing that Chuck. It's got me baffled. It's down quite a bit on my TV meters. I guess I'll just have to wait and see. When they go to ch. 9 it'll be a different ball-game. Maybe I'll be able to get them better then...


- DFGY

So this is a bit of a topic straddler (does it go here or in the Comcast thread...), does anyone know if Comcast will be carrying 58.2? I know we have some of the techs that work for local stations that check here, so perhaps someone knows if there is an agreement to carry it. Comcast carries the subchannels of channel 10 and 6 already. It would be nice to have the new ThisTV as an option. If not I guess I'll look into adding an antenna and see what it's like.

My problem could well be with the tree. I think I had a bit of a mental disconnect between the attic and the yard. The antenna was quasi-temporarily at the back corner of the casa and far from the trees but it's now in attic in the middle of the building and signal passes right next to the tree. I trimmed the heck out of the tree today so I'll see if it helps. I'll get into the attic soon and start playing with the antenna positions.

I kind of had it in my mind that tree interference should cause problems with more than one channel.

Thanks,

Scott

So this is a bit of a topic straddler (does it go here or in the Comcast thread...), does anyone know if Comcast will be carrying 58.2? I know we have some of the techs that work for local stations that check here, so perhaps someone knows if there is an agreement to carry it. Comcast carries the subchannels of channel 10 and 6 already. It would be nice to have the new ThisTV as an option. If not I guess I'll look into adding an antenna and see what it's like.

Maybe once they get 58.1 rolled out on all of the systems.

Maybe once they get 58.1 rolled out on all of the systems.

True true, I keep forgetting the main HD feed isn't in my system yet since there is rarely anything I would watch in HD on it...

For the last couple of weeks my built-in ATSC receiver on my Sony HDTV shows "no signal" for KCRA channels 3.1 and 3.2. Channel diagnostic confirms zero signal. All other local channels come in fine, ranging from KOVR 13.1 as the weakest with signal strength in the mid-60s to KQCA 58.1 and 58.2 in the high 90s. I live in Sacramento's Pocket area and have a fixed rooftop antenna. Your thoughts, please?

^^ Re-scan for digital channels in the Tv setup... Does it find 3.1?

For the last couple of weeks my built-in ATSC receiver on my Sony HDTV shows "no signal" for KCRA channels 3.1 and 3.2. Channel diagnostic confirms zero signal.

I have a Sony also. Channel diagnostics should show it tuned to channel 35 when you enter 3.1. Does it?

In regards to KOVR. It should not be in the 60's. Take a look at the AGC number in the diagnostics. That's the real signal strength meter except that it reads inverted, the stronger the signal the lower the number. Compare the number for KOVR to some of your higher percentage stations. If the number is similar, then the lower percentage is caused by multipath. If it's a higher number then it's just weaker.

Chuck

Bob,

Seemed to be a problem on Friday Night. Hard to explain. When I froze frames it seemed to be cutting off and shifting parts creating a sort of flicker.

S~

Bob,

Seemed to be a problem on Friday Night. Hard to explain. When I froze frames it seemed to be cutting off and shifting parts creating a sort of flicker.

S~
You're right. I got a call about it. A server related issue. We elected to stay with it. Really no complaints other than this comment from you.

Bob

You're right. I got a call about it. A server related issue. We elected to stay with it. Really no complaints other than this comment from you.

Bob

OK. I saw you posted over at DBS in the 211 EHD thread about the programming freezing and skipping ahead. It seems to be about 30 seconds or so. HAve you talked to Dish Engineering about it? They seem to be pretty receptive.

S~

You're right. I got a call about it. A server related issue. We elected to stay with it. Really no complaints other than this comment from you.

BobI saw it too but I'm glad you stuck with it. Dumping to SD would have been more annoying than the glitches.

OK. I saw you posted over at DBS in the 211 EHD thread about the programming freezing and skipping ahead. It seems to be about 30 seconds or so. HAve you talked to Dish Engineering about it? They seem to be pretty receptive.

S~
No. This is relating to the USB DVR.

No. This is relating to the USB DVR.

Correct. With the 211. I am having the same problems. Thought they might take us seriously if a chief engineer called them reporting problems. I have a good contact if you'd like.

S~

For anyone interested, KICU is now digital on RF 36 just today. They're stronger here than they were on RF 52. If you tune directly, use 36.3 and 36.4.

According to their Oct. 2008 FCC submission, they still have 6 months before they'll be on their final top mounted antenna. I assume they're using their new 550KW transmitter, almost twice the power they had on 52.

Chuck

For anyone interested, KICU is now digital on RF 36 just today. They're stronger here than they were on RF 52. If you tune directly, use 36.3 and 36.4.

According to their Oct. 2008 FCC submission, they still have 6 months before they'll be on their final top mounted antenna. I assume they're using their new 550KW transmitter, almost twice the power they had on 52.

Chuck

I might have to rescan. I dropped it. I only got it when conditions were just right. April 17th, 4:59 and 27 seconds. Barometric pressure 29.36725, with a south west wind of 2.36519 m.p.h. :D

S~

Darn. No dice.

S~

Cracks me up when watching KCRA or KOVR news in hd and they show a video clip inside 4x3 sidebars that is squished (everyone looks tall and skinny). It's like the original clip is 16x9 and they force it into the 4x3 window with sidebars... tee hee

tv 3: This set has an amplified antenna (mant 510). It's been a little more than a week since I aimed this for analog 58. So far, it's doing a very good job. My goal was to receive 3.2, 6.2, and 58.2, since E* does not have these sub-channels and tv 3 is connected to satellite. Analog 58 was only watchable when I was physically touching the uhf array of the antenna, otherwise it was a mess. I had the amplifier on. With the exception of channels 31 and 29, signals between 88% and 100% are the norm for all of the other channels. These new tuners are slick. Thanks for the idea Bob.

Cracks me up when watching KCRA or KOVR news in hd and they show a video clip inside 4x3 sidebars that is squished (everyone looks tall and skinny). It's like the original clip is 16x9 and they force it into the 4x3 window with sidebars... tee hee
OK, this is one instance when I actually agree with you.

Like all stations, we receive news material via a network owned news service. Affiliates contribute their stories and we cherry-pick what we want to use. All of the stuff goes into one big bit-bucket. Some is 16x9 and most is 4x3.

Once we have cherry-picked and downloaded what we want to use, editors will sometimes cut down the story or, perhaps, edit in a local tag or connection. Sometimes, it airs actually as it was downloaded without any manual manipulation of the video/audio.

We do have aspect-ratio converters available to out editors. When time permits, they use them. More often than not, the stories come in at the last minute and you see what you described.

It drives me crazy and I am looking for ways to better deal with this problem, which will continue to exist until all 4x3 news material goes away.

You have actually given me a good idea of something to discuss in my blog.

Bob
www.cbs13.com/blogs

OK, this is one instance when I actually agree with you....You have actually given me a good idea of something to discuss in my blog.
One other thing I've noticed happening during tape playback inside the 4x3 window. Not all but some clips get this strange "curl" or "roll" along the top edge of the video. It's like the tracking is bad on a tape player. On my 56" it can affect up to 4" wide strip along the top edge. The side-bars do not have the curl, only the video inside.

Anyone know why KUVS analog 19 is off the air? It's been off at least a couple of days. KUVS DT-18 is on. The only reason I care is that I have a channel 19 filter ahead of my preamp to keep it from being overloaded. If they're gone then I'd like to start working to remove it. According to their FCC filing, they're not supposed to shut off analog until June 12th.

Chuck

Anyone know why KUVS analog 19 is off the air? It's been off at least a couple of days. KUVS DT-18 is on. The only reason I care is that I have a channel 19 filter ahead of my preamp to keep it from being overloaded. If they're gone then I'd like to start working to remove it. According to their FCC filing, they're not supposed to shut off analog until June 12th.

Chuck

If they were off, they seem to be back on now. Looks normal here.

--Ron

Is anyone getting guide data for 58.2 yet? I am not, with my Dish VIP211.

Is anyone getting guide data for 58.2 yet? I am not, with my Dish VIP211.

Stand-alone TiVo has guide data, as do the DirecTV receivers with OTA capability.

Is anyone getting guide data for 58.2 yet? I am not, with my Dish VIP211.

Dish has not added it yet. I'm trying to convince them. So far no luck. Since it is being added to more and more markets, maybe they'll change their mind.

S~

If they were off, they seem to be back on now. Looks normal here.

--Ron

Yeah. They reappeared Saturday morning. Too bad. I was hoping they were gone. ;)

Chuck

Is anyone getting guide data for 58.2 yet? I am not, with my Dish VIP211.

Last I knew, E* doesn't use PSIP data for their OTA guides. I've been receiving guide data on my Tivo, and on my CECB guide for weeks.

Quite a few A/V anomalies on KOVR last night. Video would freeze momentarily and and audio would make a sound. Happened at least from 60 Minutes through COld CAse. Recorded The Unit and haven't watched yet. It would be pretty bad for a while then stop and the start up again.

S~

Quite a few A/V anomalies on KOVR last night. Video would freeze momentarily and and audio would make a sound. Happened at least from 60 Minutes through COld CAse. Recorded The Unit and haven't watched yet. It would be pretty bad for a while then stop and the start up again.I caught these as well. It appeared/sounded to me like a disc sector was defective and the playback repeated a sector and then jumped ahead 2 (back to where it should be). I expect that RAID drives are most likely used for the video server and that my description is not what actually happened, I am just trying to describe what I saw/heard.

Boy has Max Headroom showed up on 13 tonight. Seven to 7:30 fine. Now the show and commercials are almost unwatchable. Sun in the feed guides???
Lee

Quite a few A/V anomalies on KOVR last night. Video would freeze momentarily and and audio would make a sound. Happened at least from 60 Minutes through COld CAse. Recorded The Unit and haven't watched yet. It would be pretty bad for a while then stop and the start up again.

S~

I also noticed that last night, and it's happening again during my recording of How I Met Your Mother (TiVo HD, via Comcast). What's the deal?

EDIT: Nevermind. About a minute after I posted this (which would have been around 7:45pm), they dipped to black and the problem was gone.

Has something changed on FOX 40 HD? I noticed the last episode of House looked very grainy, and tonight on Fringe seeing the same. The video seems like it's being put through extra sharpening. I'm seeing edge enhancement and moire patterns in fine details of hair, fabric, tree bark, etc.

I live in Colfax and recently put up a winegard 7698 and get all the main Sacramento stations :D. I get the San Francisco stations over analog that are watchable on all but the stormiest days, even with the old smaller antenna. I would like to pick up KQED from the Sutro tower and am able to watch the analog feed, but would like to get the digital tuned in. I was able to tune the digital KQED feed in for about 20 minutes (even at -22.2 db) but haven't been able to since.

Looks like it is on Ch 30, do I stand a chance at tuning this station in (and hopefully others) with a UHF antenna like the 91XG aimed that way? Would an array get me close? Any other foothill residents tuning in stations from the Bay?

Has something changed on FOX 40 HD? I noticed the last episode of House looked very grainy, and tonight on Fringe seeing the same. The video seems like it's being put through extra sharpening. I'm seeing edge enhancement and moire patterns in fine details of hair, fabric, tree bark, etc.

I'm seeing that too. It is coming in that way on the feed. I watched "24" on KTVU Monday night, and it was hyper-sharp, to the point where it was almost hurting my eyes. Not sure what the deal is, as it only seems to be affecting film-based programming at the moment -- I didn't see any of this on "American Idol" for example, but as soon as "Fringe" started, there it was. Commercials looked normal though. Whatever is going on is originating in LA.

^^Right, commercials are not affected. Maybe we need to get a thread going in the main hd prog forum...

Looks like it is on Ch 30, do I stand a chance at tuning this station in (and hopefully others) with a UHF antenna like the 91XG aimed that way? Would an array get me close? Any other foothill residents tuning in stations from the Bay?

I live in the middle of Calaveras County and my UHF antennas are a pair of 91XGs with a preamp at a bit over 2640' and 60' off the ground. I find that anything on UHF from Sutro is very difficult here. Even high VHF isn't all that great (different antennas). I have a friend about 5 miles from here that receives KQED and KGO analog just fine with a single Winegard YA-1713 but UHF is a no go, worse than here with the same antennas.

I can receive KGO DT on RF 24 about 75% of the time but I don't think it's going to be as good when they move back to 7. KPIX on RF 29 will probably be about 75% once KSPX analog goes off. KQED DT on 30 used to be about the same but I believe since February they've been running on half power and I no longer receive them much. I think that's going to change after the transition.

You may not be aware that the digital stations on Sutro are all using temporary antennas only part way up the tower. After June 12th they will begin a huge antenna project to remove all the top mounted analog antennas and replace them with new digital antennas. The project is slated to take about 8 months. With weather delays next winter it could be next spring before they are done but the antennas will be about 200' higher.

It's hard to say how much this help you. I think the Winegard 7698 is the largest of their new antennas. If currently you don't have a preamp and go to a pair of 91XGs with a preamp, you'll probably get enough gain to be worth it, but as always, no guarantees. You pays your money and takes you chances. :)

I looked at your TVFool table and I see all the Sutro stations are listed as "Tropo." That's going to make it pretty tough. What do the Sutro UHF analog stations look like now? Channel 44 is a good test.

Chuck

^^Right, commercials are not affected. Maybe we need to get a thread going in the main hd prog forum...

Feel free. I'm going to give it one more night. I'll take a look at "Bones" tonight, and if it has the same issue, I will take this to a higher level.

I caught these as well. It appeared/sounded to me like a disc sector was defective and the playback repeated a sector and then jumped ahead 2 (back to where it should be). I expect that RAID drives are most likely used for the video server and that my description is not what actually happened, I am just trying to describe what I saw/heard.

I'm way behind on watching my recorded programs and I'm on cold Case right now.

My guess: It was the microwave link switching between the high and low dishes on the tower. Bob said we'd see a brief glitch whenever it switched. Maybe neither receiver was getting a decent signal which would account for the multiple switches?

That was the night I lost KCRA here due to temperature inversions. It was right in the middle of a brief high pressure.

Keep an eye on it starting Saturday during the upcoming spell of strong high pressure. We're bound to have inversions all next week.

Chuck

I'm way behind on watching my recorded programs and I'm on cold Case right now.

My guess: It was the microwave link switching between the high and low dishes on the tower. Bob said we'd see a brief glitch whenever it switched. Maybe neither receiver was getting a decent signal which would account for the multiple switches?

That was the night I lost KCRA here due to temperature inversions. It was right in the middle of a brief high pressure.

Keep an eye on it starting Saturday during the upcoming spell of strong high pressure. We're bound to have inversions all next week.

ChuckI expected the signals to be "timed", so that regardless of which microwave path is selected, the signal arrives at the transmitter at the same time. If your thought is correct, then it was only staying on the opposite path for milliseconds (less than 1 second typical). I would also hope that there is some hysteresis so that it won't just switch back and forth 'immediately'. I was watching via ATSC, I wonder if the NTSC signal was affected.

I expected the signals to be "timed", so that regardless of which microwave path is selected, the signal arrives at the transmitter at the same time. If your thought is correct, then it was only staying on the opposite path for milliseconds (less than 1 second typical). I would also hope that there is some hysteresis so that it won't just switch back and forth 'immediately'. I was watching via ATSC, I wonder if the NTSC signal was affected.

What I was seeing on my recording was a brief freeze or stuttering of the picture and sound and then it would continue. It would be okay for a few seconds to minutes. Eventually it became less frequent and then stopped happening altogether. Bob could put an end to our speculation. :)

Chuck

I expected the signals to be "timed", so that regardless of which microwave path is selected, the signal arrives at the transmitter at the same time. If your thought is correct, then it was only staying on the opposite path for milliseconds (less than 1 second typical). I would also hope that there is some hysteresis so that it won't just switch back and forth 'immediately'. I was watching via ATSC, I wonder if the NTSC signal was affected.

If it works the way I'm familiar with, there is only one microwave path, with two receive antennas on the tower copying the same single transmit signal from the studio. The high receive antenna will have a longer feed line than the lower one, so a delay line or network is inserted in the lower one, such that the transit time from either antenna to the ch. 13.1 [25.1] transmitter is identical. Hence, there (theoretically) should be no glitches due to signal delay when going from one receive antenna to the other.

Maybe Bob or someone can keep me honest as to whether it's configured that way, or some other way.

--Ron

What I was seeing on my recording was a brief freeze or stuttering of the picture and sound and then it would continue. It would be okay for a few seconds to minutes. Eventually it became less frequent and then stopped happening altogether. Bob could put an end to our speculation. :)

Chuck
Sorry, have not had much time to check in this week.

We had a problem with one of our MPEG converters that takes the HDSDI stream out of the satellite receiver and converts it into an ASI stream to feed the server. That caused an occasional flicker in the video.

The stuttering was a server issue. The operator switched to the backup server but it took him a while to figure it out.

We currently have many standard def inputs to the server but only two HD inputs. Just bought another $100K worth of HD ports and we are currently installing them. This will give us much more flexibility on the HD side.

The good news is that there have not been any fades since we got the new system operational.

Bob

You may not be aware that the digital stations on Sutro are all using temporary antennas only part way up the tower. After June 12th they will begin a huge antenna project to remove all the top mounted analog antennas and replace them with new digital antennas. The project is slated to take about 8 months. With weather delays next winter it could be next spring before they are done but the antennas will be about 200' higher.

It's hard to say how much this help you. I think the Winegard 7698 is the largest of their new antennas. If currently you don't have a preamp and go to a pair of 91XGs with a preamp, you'll probably get enough gain to be worth it, but as always, no guarantees. You pays your money and takes you chances. :)

I looked at your TVFool table and I see all the Sutro stations are listed as "Tropo." That's going to make it pretty tough. What do the Sutro UHF analog stations look like now? Channel 44 is a good test.

Chuck

Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware of the temporary Sutro situation and Ch 44 doesn't come in very well. Imagine I'll wait for the improvements to finish before I upgrade to try to get those stations.

Do you know what the 91XG gain specs are? Did you mount the 2 vertically or horizontally?

While watching Good Day Sacramento half asleep early this morning. Im pretty sure i heard them say they are going HD on April 20th? :confused:

Do you know what the 91XG gain specs are? Did you mount the 2 vertically or horizontally?

Yes. Take a look here:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

My antennas are horizontally stacked. I need as much horizontal side rejection as I can get to fight multipath.

Chuck

The good news is that there have not been any fades since we got the new system operational.

Bob

Thanks! Good to hear it was not the fade problem. I'm happy to have guessed wrong.

Chuck

Yes. Take a look here:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

My antennas are horizontally stacked. I need as much horizontal side rejection as I can get to fight multipath.

Chuck
I had not seen this, Chuck. Thanks for posting.

Bob

I hate Digital in my area Trees, Houses & Hills..I get Analog Ch 10 & 13 in somewhat good...but DTV it's a no go :(

Where I'm living my brother owns the house..and he had Direct TV..he dosen't want like a antanna or anything outside..

btw I live in Vallejo

I hate Digital in my area Trees, Houses & Hills..I get Analog Ch 10 & 13 in somewhat good...but DTV it's a no go :(

Where I'm living my brother owns the house..and he had Direct TV..he dosen't want like a antanna or anything outside..

btw I live in Vallejo
does he have the direct tv antenna in a closet?

mmcpheet,

I live between you and Grass Valley a mile off Hwy 174 on a west facing ridge...I get almost all the San Francisco stations. I have a Channel Master 4228 and a rotor for fine tuning the azimuth.

Yes. Take a look here:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

My antennas are horizontally stacked. I need as much horizontal side rejection as I can get to fight multipath.

Chuck

Chuck, that's a *great* reference! And very illuminating. Notice the excellent performance on ch. 9 & 10 of the CM 4228, ostensibly a UHF antenna. That looks like a primary choice for Walnut Grove watchers who are on the fringe of the coverage area. (RF channels 9 and 10 being KVIE and KXTV after June 12th.)

And hoo boy, check out that Megawave thing. Worse performance than a basic loop, and it looks like something out of the Batmobile. I bet it's selling like hotcakes.

does he have the direct tv antenna in a closet?

The Dish is on the side of the house

I hate Digital in my area Trees, Houses & Hills..I get Analog Ch 10 & 13 in somewhat good...but DTV it's a no go :(

Where I'm living my brother owns the house..and he had Direct TV..he dosen't want like a antanna or anything outside..

btw I live in Vallejo

A good rule of thumb that I often tell viewers is that if you currently can receive the UHF ANALOG (channels 31/40/58) channels from Walnut Grove, you should be able to receive all of the digital channels.

So, the question is: How is your reception on ANALOG 31/40/58?

Bob

Bob,

Any progress on the black screen popping up? Watched Amazing Race last night and picture/sound blacked out for about 5-10 seconds each time.

S~

Bob,

Any progress on the black screen popping up? Watched Amazing Race last night and picture/sound blacked out for about 5-10 seconds each time.

S~
Not sure what other problems you are referring to. This was a OTO involving the new satellite distribution system. This time, the issue was on our end involving the receiver that was on the air at the time. Over the air, there was a glitch. Over Dish (and possibly other carriers) it was a dip to black when their system saw a loss of sync.

Been lots of bugs in this distribution system but the Network has been working things out one by one. Absolutely top priority.

Bob

Not sure what other problems you are referring to. This was a OTO involving the new satellite distribution system. This time, the issue was on our end involving the receiver that was on the air at the time. Over the air, there was a glitch. Over Dish (and possibly other carriers) it was a dip to black when their system saw a loss of sync.

Been lots of bugs in this distribution system but the Network has been working things out one by one. Absolutely top priority.

Bob

Just the blackouts. Happened three times last night during Amazing Race. Watched it OTA.

S~

Just the blackouts. Happened three times last night during Amazing Race. Watched it OTA.I saw this too. The video went to black and the audio went silent simultaneously. The shortest 'blackout' was just under 5 seconds and the longest seemed like 10 seconds (but I wasn't measuring). I watched live OTA from 13.1 (25.1).

I also recorded the NTSC broadcast. In scanning through it I did not see the blacks, but I might have to watch in real time to do so.

I noticed the last episode of House looked very grainy, and tonight on Fringe seeing the same. The video seems like it's being put through extra sharpening. I'm seeing edge enhancement and moire patterns in fine details of hair, fabric, tree bark, etc.

As you may have noticed, it hasn't gone away. Somebody finally started a thread about it:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1141083

Just the blackouts. Happened three times last night during Amazing Race. Watched it OTA.

S~
OK, then that is the problem I referred to.

OK, then that is the problem I referred to.

How is the solution coming along?

S~

Just thought I would mention that, over the past couple of days, we have noticed quite a bit of fading throughout our extensive microwave system but....

NO FADES ON THE PRIMARY STUDIO TO TRANSMITTER LINK FOR THE HD!

Our re-engineered link seems to be working, but I am not ready to say the dragon has been dragon has been slain, the fat lady has sung, etc.

As far as the other microwave links are concerned, they are used for our various feeds from receive sites, relay points, etc. and are not protected links. We expect to see fades on days when there are strong temperature inversions on these links, but you rarely see these fades unless a live shot on the air at the time takes a fade.

Bob

I am also not getting 58-1 at this time. All others are OK.

58.1 and .2 both normal here at this time.

-----

Oops, disregard. Not a current thread. Glitch in my browser.

A good rule of thumb that I often tell viewers is that if you currently can receive the UHF ANALOG (channels 31/40/58) channels from Walnut Grove, you should be able to receive all of the digital channels.

So, the question is: How is your reception on ANALOG 31/40/58?

Bob

I only get Ch. 64

I don't get uhf analog ch 31, 40 or 58

I only get Ch. 64

I don't get uhf analog ch 31, 40 or 58

In what town do you live? It's just a fact of life that you must be a able to receive UHF to get all your local DTV stations. I've come across people in my area who are in the same situation, VHF reception but no UHF reception. BTW, channel 64 is moving from Mt. Diablo to Walnut Grove on RF 26 so I guess you won't be able to receive that one either.

Chuck

I only get Ch. 64

I don't get uhf analog ch 31, 40 or 58

Channel 64 transmits from Mt. Diablo, while the others are all in Walnut Grove. What this is saying is that you don't have a clear path to Walnut Grove.

MarioMania, you posted your Vallejo TVFool chart elsewhere, and it showed only 2 channels in the green. Neither was a major network. If indoors is essential, you're probably looking at needing an outdoor/rooftop-style antenna used indoors. Is outdoor, but not rooftop, a possible option for you? You're best bet for all major networks is probably S.F.. How's your analog UHF reception from S.F.? Hopefully better than Sac.

Please turn NCIS 16:9 on... Thanks

Thanks...

Spoke too soon. What's causing the almost constant audio stutter and frame freeze?

It's baaaaa aa aa aa ack! ack!

second night in a row. glitches in audio video.

Well CSI just dropped to 4:3...

second night in a row. glitches in audio video. Make that three nights in a row. Insert angry rude comments here. And here. And um, here.