Am in Rockin, at the top of the hill on Sierra College Blvd. All HDTV stations went out, except 3.1, at about 8:55 PM. Would any one by chance know why?

Are they still out for you? I saw your message at about 9:10, tuned around, and everybody seems to be up.

I've curious what experiences those of you with good OTA reception have had when splitting the OTA signal between two receivers.

With one receiver, most of the OTA stations are in the 89-95 range. If I split the signal to two receivers without an amplifier what sort of signal strength should I expect?

videojanitor - are you trying to get the waivers directly from the stations? when i contacted d*, i was under the impression that they were going to get the waivers (kinda on my behalf) ... unless i missed something in the conversation with the d* rep.

just wondering if i should pursue the stations directly ... in the sake of trying to save time.

Absolutely a must to contact stations yourself, either directv just doesn't follow through, or their method of request is ineffective. As I have said before, D* told me I had been denied by NBC on the very day I received the a letter from KCRA stating "no objection" to my personal request for waivers. Always contact the station in question yourself.

Bill, the info on antrnnaweb is for a 4 way split according to engineers at Winegard and Channel Master.

Well actually I'm sure D* thinks they can, kind of a royalty thing. Actually this is the other part of SHVERA 2004 the "significantly viewed" stations in adjacent markets.

FYI, I got a response from D* to my request that they turn on the S.F. local channels for me (since they claim I am part of that market). As usual, it was convoluted and didn't really answer the question, but it said something about "recent FCC rule changes may allow them to provide nearby cities in the future." Do you think this has anything to do with the "significantly viewed" issue you raised? I guess I should go read the exact wording of SHVERA 2004 ...

With this hot weather, don't really need it though -- last night I was getting a great signal from KTVU-DT, KRON-DT, KGO-DT and KBHK-DT. I was "significantly viewing" them, and nobody could stop me. :D

It is my belief that is exactly what the "significantly viewed" portion of Shvera is about.
Back in pre cable days Contra Costa County got its TV from Sacramento. When Cable came in that all changed. For the longest time no Sac stations were available, now at least KCRA is viewable on most systems. Now while our jobs and entertainment are usually in the Bay Area our climate is more Valley. And I really missed the Sacramento view of things.
I believe that our area is prime for two DMA viewing. Let's keep at it.
This is from the FCC response I received months ago:

from the FCC: The FCC has not yet acted on those few, limited provisions of SHVERA on which
the agency is required to act; no FCC rules implementing SHVERA have been
written. SHVERA relates primarily to copyright, and while the FCC does not
regulate copyright law, SHVERA includes a "significantly viewed" provision; the
FCC will publish a list of significantly viewed stations and initiate a
rulemaking to implement the significantly viewed provisions. The significantly
viewed retransmission authorization allows satellite carriers to offer local TV
signals from an adjacent market rather than the signals only from a viewer's
home market.

Sounds like they're talking about Central California to me!

Interesting. Well, there are certainly many areas around these parts that would seem to fall into that category, Contra Costa being one of them. I doubt Sacramento viewers would get a break on that one though, as there's not much "significant viewing" of S.F. stations going on here ...

Tracy seems like it'd be ripe for significant viewing of both. I know I'd love to get KICU out here just for the A's games, but Tracy is right about 1/2 bay area 1/2 central valley (at least nowadays)

Bill-

I've split my signal 3 ways and it works fine, but I had to buy a distribution amp to get it to work best. I think more than anything else it was the long cable run though.

At one point I had a 2-way split from the Ant to the VCR and TV (so I could record) the split didn't degrade the signal. My understanding was that the key was if you had enough already so the 3 db loss mattered or not. I assume there I did, but I didn't have enough to split it 3 ways and run it through the house.

Bob;
Heads up. KMAX just went down the tubes again. Everything was fine up to Mark Allen at McClellan. He gave his spiel, and then the screen changed size, his narrative repeated and now nothing but a bouncing signal and constant PSIP 31 on 21 no 21 on 31, no...
Lee in Martinez

Are they still out for you? I saw your message at about 9:10, tuned around, and everybody seems to be up.

Thanks for your reply. After the reception went out, I started configuring the Media PC for HD DVD playing but checked the OTA stations a couple of times during the hour and still did not have most of them. Was wondering if there had been a power outage @ the transmitters, a change in wind direction, or some other event.

Well, I made it out of the attic before 9:30 a.m. this morning and it was only mildly too warm. The antenna split worked fine. My original run is about 40 feet. My second run is about 110 feet. Both sets are receiving signals in the mid 90s (about what I was getting before splitting the signal), exept for 18 (19-1), which is in the low 80s, but still acceptable. Now the Mrs. can slowly get used to watching all her favorites in HD widescreen. Not that she cares one bit.

Bob;
Heads up. KMAX just went down the tubes again. Everything was fine up to Mark Allen at McClellan. He gave his spiel, and then the screen changed size, his narrative repeated and now nothing but a bouncing signal and constant PSIP 31 on 21 no 21 on 31, no...
Lee in Martinez
Our encoder froze up.....

Down in Walnut Creek Picture, no sound on KMAX DT, 1:40pm monday.

[QUOTE=j_buckingham80]Tracy seems like it'd be ripe for significant viewing of both. I know I'd love to get KICU out here just for the A's games, but Tracy is right about 1/2 bay area 1/2 central valley (at least nowadays)

[QUOTE]

Here in Tracy, Comcast carries three of the four SF network channels, (no KNTV), as well as KICU, and all of the Sacramento channels. If D* could deliver the same, we'd get the Giants and A's, I would able drop my lifeline subscription to Comcast.

I've curious what experiences those of you with good OTA reception have had when splitting the OTA signal between two receivers.

With one receiver, most of the OTA stations are in the 89-95 range. If I split the signal to two receivers without an amplifier what sort of signal strength should I expect?

I have an antenna run of about 75 feet then I split it like crazy. I split it six times because of the inputs required. I am feeding a digital/analog tuner in my TV, digital/analog/fm tuners in my HTPC, FM tuner in my receiver and lastly an analog tuner in my replaytv for a total of 7 tuners. They all work great.

Down in Walnut Creek Picture, no sound on KMAX DT, 1:40pm monday.
No problem with KMAX on Monday.

- Bob

What would cause an excellent picture with no sound... My D* rcadtc210stb? my avr430? my understanding of physics? The trees near my antenna?

Rick,

Is KMAX still without sound on your setup?

Let me know tonight if you're still without sound.

FYI, no problem with KMAX-DT evident on my gear (HD TiVo). That doesn't mean that there couldn't something wrong that might cause a problem for other STBs though ...

FYI, no problem with KMAX-DT evident on my gear (HD TiVo). That doesn't mean that there couldn't something wrong that might cause a problem for other STBs though ...

We'll take a look at the stream we're sending out.

- Bob

Okay Bob, It seems to be me and not you, damn! The dashboard of my HK AVR430 is acting like it is not reading any audio, however it also occasionally reads out "UNLOCK", can't find any reference to that in the manual, no index of course. Let's say I'm on HBO HD channel 70 on D*. The control panel of the AVR430 reads out 3/ 2/ .1, indicating it sees Lfront, center, Rfront/ L and R surrounds/ and a LFE signal, then it changes to read Dolby Digital. First OTA down the dial is KQCA-DT 58-1, the Dolby Digital readout changes to Dolby PLII Movie, then 2/0/.0. Okay, so when I turn to KMAX-DT the Dolby PLII never changes. I never get a surround type readout (X/Y/.z), and occasionally, not always, "UNLOCK" appears in the readout.
I have a feeling this is something I have done inadvertently, while trying to do something else.
Perhaps I should reboot the D* STB, it is an RCA DTC 210?
This is only happening on the one channel 31-1 UPN KMAX-DT. Any thoughts?

If I tune in Analog 31, which I can do as the DTC210 is one of the few STB's with digital and analog tuners, I have to turn the volume up to max to hear a barely audible audio signal. So maybe it is not me!

OK, I have determined it is not the AVR430, as it keeps showing that it sees no audio. And all my other OTA and sat stations have great audio. As I said 31 analog needs the volume up to max to have a barely audible signal. No audio at all on KMAX-DT. So it is either my RCA DTC210 or KMAX-DT's signal. Now it could be my location, or some trees, weird that it only knocked down the audio signal.
Lucky for me Enterprise is off the air and there is nothing I want to watch on UPN. Sorry Bob.
OK, so anybody down my way, Contra Costa, using an RCA DTC210? Having problems receiving KMAX-DT?

I was not having issues with KMAX until I checked it out this morning...

It's all over the map: signal is 95% but drops sometimes to zero, even when the signal is stready the picture is and sound flashes in and out, and now the picture is either just black or complete green screen. It keeps getting worse by the minute. This is on both my receivers.

Hammer

I have no audio or video problems with KMAX-DT reception at this time in Fair Oaks. The signal strength is also about the same as the other stations.

Rory- what is your STB?
Hammer- are you using the RCA DTC210?

I have no issues with KMAX either this morning, normal signal strength and audio. I am using the DirecTv HD-Tivo.

Bob, just called DirecTV and they have submitted my request (again) for waivers. Hope the this request is granted. :D :D :D

Just noticed that Channel 81 (CBSW) has been turned on for me. I don't believe this has anything to do with my request for waivers from KOVR, but with the recent agreement between Viacom and DirecTV. Anyway, this was what I wanted to happen so I am now happy. :D :D :D

I am still using the old RCA DTC-100 I got back around 99/00.

Home from work and KMAX is back to normal (for the past 10 minutes)... Dish6000 and FusionII PC Card fed from outdoor CM4228.

Hammer

Just noticed that Channel 81 (CBSW) has been turned on for me. I don't believe this has anything to do with my request for waivers from KOVR, but with the recent agreement between Viacom and DirecTV.

Still no Channel 81 for me, so it would seem like it does have something to do with your specific request. I just mailed my waiver letters yesterday -- I'll be waiting to see what happens next (ie: what's their next lame excuse?).

Still no Channel 81 for me, so it would seem like it does have something to do with your specific request. I just mailed my waiver letters yesterday -- I'll be waiting to see what happens next (ie: what's their next lame excuse?).

I guess I am one of the lucky ones. I did not have to request a waiver from the Chico CBS station, only SF and SAC, which are now both O&O. I don't believe I should have had to deal with the waiver request at all, but everything worked out in the end. Good luck on your request.

Just got a call from DirecTV -- they told me to check out Channel 81 on my HD receiver -- ladies and gentlemen, there it is -- CBS/West-HD via DirecTV!

Obtaining those waiver letters myself and mailing them in did the trick. The saga has come to an end -- hopefully those who are interesting in pursuing this will follow the steps posted by myself and others. Success will come -- you just gotta smash your head into the wall a few times to get there!

Congrats! It is a circuitous route, isn't it?

Congrats! It is a circuitous route, isn't it?

That is putting it mildly. :eek: Like I said at the beginning, it's not that I *need* this, but rather since it's supposed to be available in this area, then I'll take it. I doubt I'll watch it much, except if KOVR-DT is having a problem, or to view the occasional high-speed chase. It's a nice option ...

congrats videoj ... did you only get cbs? what about the other major networks?

Yes, CBS-HD only. In this market, we're not eligible for anything else -- the ABC, NBC and FOX stations are not owned by their respective networks.

that's weird ... then i wonder why the d* rep told me she'd try to get me waivers from *all* the networks?

Probably because like most of 'em, they don't know what they're talking about ...

I have a good customer in Pittsburg who has waivers on all but Fox. Keep trying guys.

Well, you can request waivers from any station, and if they grant them, or what they usually say is "they have no objection to your receiving the HD/DNS signal at this time", you can get the DNS. By just not objecting it is easier to pull if they want to. Which they all will start doing when D* delivers HD/LIL's. Relax vj, except the O&O's, they don't care. You don't want them to change hands again though. What will probably happen, as happened to our SD cousins, is D* will say it is required to make us choose between HD/LIL's or HD/DNS...Hmm?
What I don't get is what is going on at D*'s DNS testing office. There is no reason to ask for waivers on O&O's, I got mine over phone, as did most people I know, two or three months ago. Now in areas like Walnut Creek where two markets overlap I still had to get a waiver from KCRA, as everything except FOX is O&O in SF. Wasn't someone up here told that they needed a waiver from KPIX? That's absurd, because it is O&O and the Networks already have a contract with D* to supply DNS into O&O markets.
I had to get a waiver from KTVU FOX Oakland, but FOX 40 makes no claim on Walnut Creek, though it apparently does on Pittsburg & Antioch.
I get CBS and ABC without waivers as O&O's and they were turned on during phone calls to CSR's.
videojanitor-was anyone told you needed waivers from local Sacramento stations? that would be so wrong.

Warm night, too long a nap this aftenoon. What I really wanted to post about was solving the audio dropout on KMAX-DT. I took the problem over to HDTV Hardware, as I suspected the RCA DTC 210, my D* STB. Bob you will want hear this. Opened a new thread and watched it sit there most of the day. Late this afternoon I got a reply, coincidentally from a new member from Sacramento, wmmark, it was his first post. He also uses the RCA DTC 210, and also had experienced audio dropouts on KMAX-DT, 31-1. Dropouts, hell it was done gone.
Well wmmark must have been lurking for awhile because he remembered a post a couple months back where someone else with this problem had discovered a solution, wmmark tried and it worked so he passed it on to me, and it worked for me as well. In the RCA DTC 210, I went to the system setup menu, then installation, local network programming, and primary off air location, and then remove the zip code!? Now I had a Woodland zip in there, because on original setup when I entered a Walnut Creek zip, the box brought up all the SF stations I wasn't receiving. Once there was no zip at all, it rebooted and everything is perfect with KMAX-dt and throughout the dial. That seems very weird to me. Why would having a Sacramento zip in the box prevent it from passing along the audio signal of just one station? I need to know.

In your troubleshooting, did you ever "delete" KMAX and force the RCA to "re-scan" for it? This is a common method of curing OTA station problems. Maybe when you removed the zip code and rebooted the RCA actually did a re-scan of the OTA channels?

Hammer

Warm night, too long a nap this aftenoon. What I really wanted to post about was solving the audio dropout on KMAX-DT. I took the problem over to HDTV Hardware, as I suspected the RCA DTC 210, my D* STB. Bob you will want hear this. Opened a new thread and watched it sit there most of the day. Late this afternoon I got a reply, coincidentally from a new member from Sacramento, wmmark, it was his first post. He also uses the RCA DTC 210, and also had experienced audio dropouts on KMAX-DT, 31-1. Dropouts, hell it was done gone.
Well wmmark must have been lurking for awhile because he remembered a post a couple months back where someone else with this problem had discovered a solution, wmmark tried and it worked so he passed it on to me, and it worked for me as well. In the RCA DTC 210, I went to the system setup menu, then installation, local network programming, and primary off air location, and then remove the zip code!? Now I had a Woodland zip in there, because on original setup when I entered a Walnut Creek zip, the box brought up all the SF stations I wasn't receiving. Once there was no zip at all, it rebooted and everything is perfect with KMAX-dt and throughout the dial. That seems very weird to me. Why would having a Sacramento zip in the box prevent it from passing along the audio signal of just one station? I need to know.

So noted. Thanks for the tip. It helps me if viewers call me with similar problems. Is your HD OTA service with a DirecTV supplied receiver?

- Bob

- Bob

I don't believe I ever deleted KMAX-DT, it was always showing up as I scrolled through the dial. I have deleted the analog 31 as the picture is poor. IT is still deleted now. As I have said, this is recent, back when Enterprise and I was watching 31-1 regularly, there was no problem.
The DTC210 reboots after changing and scans for guide, I did not notice it saying anything about scanning for digital stations.
Just some particular little quirk of this technology. With all the posts here, and in Hardware, and Programming, you realize how new and almost experimental some of this equipment is. Sound dropouts, I mean how often did the sound vanish from analog TV? Uh, never? The greenpixel thing on some CBS stations, apparently being chased down throughout the network. Everyone hollering for More Content and Better PQ, now D* says it coming out with interactive STB's, it is such competition to be able to offer the most, the newest, the best, that they can't possible find all the bugs before these things hit the market. Can't wait till we have the first "Tron" incident with a D* interactive box, "Family Vanishes From in Front of Their TV!"

Hi Bob, yes this seems to be a particular quirk of the RCA DTC 210, this was last years D* HD STB.

videojanitor-was anyone told you needed waivers from local Sacramento stations? that would be so wrong.

I didn't ask for a waiver from anyone except CBS -- it's my understanding that I wouldn't be entitled to anything else. Am I wrong about that? Why would KCRA, KXTV, or KTXL grant an HD DNS waiver for someone living within the Sacramento city limits? I certainly don't NEED 'em -- I get absolutely perfect, rock-solid OTA signals from everybody.

Once there was no zip at all, it rebooted and everything is perfect with KMAX-dt and throughout the dial. That seems very weird to me. Why would having a Sacramento zip in the box prevent it from passing along the audio signal of just one station? I need to know.

We have a winner! That is officially the oddest thing I've ever heard ...

While they almost certainly wouldn't, the FCC quotes the law as saying, "the decision whether to grant a waiver, is solely a business decision of the broadcaster". What entitles you to a DNS feed, is the waiver. So you addressed the waiver request to your local CBS/KOVR, is it? When they are already O&O, or did you need Chico's permission?
Actually and this gets confusing for some, You are making the request of whichever local affiliate is involved, not the network, they'd be giving it away in a heartbeat, if it was up to them.
The fact that the decision rests with the local, and if granted, someone living in downtown Sacramento could receive a HD/DNS feed, gives the guy who is surrounded by concrete high rises, or lives next door to a PG&E substation a chance to convince his affiliate that he just can't receive a signal.

yeah it is very odd. a little quirky bug just for the RCA DTC.

videojanitor-sorry, just took the time to go back a couple of pages, and catch up, don't always read everything up here. So D* wanted to see letters from 3 CBS affiliates? And two were O&O's, KPIX & KOVR, shakin' my head... Well, apparently D* thinks you are a fledgling Ruppert Murdoch, got yourself a little network there and everything.

videojanitor-sorry, just took the time to go back a couple of pages, and catch up, don't always read everything up here. So D* wanted to see letters from 3 CBS affiliates? And two were O&O's, KPIX & KOVR, shakin' my head...

That is correct. They needed letters from KOVR, KPIX, and KHSL. Both KOVR and KPIX told me I didn't need a waiver (yeah, they know that, and I know that, but D* apparently doesn't), but they sent me hard copies anyway. KHSL had no idea why D* would think I was in their reception area, so they gladly provided one as well.

I wonder if anyone ever gets these channels automatically? If a D* subscriber lives in downtown S.F. for example, are they supposed to automatically get the HD/DNS feeds of ABC, NBC and CBS? Or would they have to ask for them and then jump through these same hoops?

Absolutelytootly, I got CBS HD/DNS turned on while I was on the phone with a CSR. Basically the same for ABC. I know of three other people in W.C. who had the same experience. Now KCRA's supposed reach has people in Berkeley asking for waivers, also I heard some people in San Jose had to get KCRA waivers. Also at the South end of the Bay, some have to get waivers from NBC in Salinas.
I'm wondering if the recent change for KOVR has gummed up D*'s computers?
DirecTV has contracts with the National Nets that allow them to deliver DNS into O&O markets. Now I can understand my having to get a waiver from KCRA, it is received in Walnut Creek. But there is NO reason that anybody in Sacramento should have to get waivers from either KOVR or KPIX, they are Network owned and operated, and the Network does not care where you get their signal from as long as you get it! I don't know about Chico, but it seems along way off. That is something our friend JP could clear up in about 15 minutes. In fact my brother, Mr. Bill Shakespeare, will probably be taking that approach, in the next couple of days. See if we can get a few things straightened out.

Edit: you know this could very well be either DirecTV computers or CSR's just swinging a 70 mile radius around the towers and saying, sorry you'll need a waiver. Instead of looking at actual DMA maps which most likely take into account terrain and other possible issues.

I'm wondering if the recent change for KOVR has gummed up D*'s computers? [...] you know this could very well be either DirecTV computers or CSR's just swinging a 70 mile radius around the towers and saying, sorry you'll need a waiver. Instead of looking at actual DMA maps which most likely take into account terrain and other possible issues.

From what I can tell, D* still doesn't know that KOVR is now an O&O, so I'm sure that doesn't help. If you look at the information for CBS-HD on the D* website, Sacramento is not listed as one of the markets where CBS-HD is available.

Your second theory sounds about right, though they must be casting an even wide net than that. By any measure, KHSL's tower is 100 solid miles from my zip code.

The lack of sound on 31 is not just a DTC 210 problem. As I posted on 7-6 my TS-360 no longer gets sound on 31-1 unless I remove the zip code. This is a known issue with this box. Bob Hess tweaked something at 31 before and I got the sound back. Maybe nothing can be done this time.

This is from the thread I started in Hardware:

This is a known problem with the RCA DTC 210 (also with one of the Samsung STB's). D* refuses to admit they have had any complaints about this even though many forums say D*, Samsung and RCA are working on a fix.

I live in Columbus, Ohio and have the same problem with UPN channel 53-1.

I suspect D* is sending info in the guide data that does not agree with UPN broadcasters nationwide. I thought it was a D* problem, but now after seeing this, it seems to be with many UPN stations, I suspect UPN.

This coupled with the post above indicates something needs fixing either at UPN or RCA. Thought you would want to see it.

Why am I able to get KQED with much better signal strength than KVIE --> even though I live 30miles EAST of Sac in EDH.

KQED comes in between 80-120. KVIE is usually only marginally receivable and bonces between 0 and 75.

I get all the other stations from teh Walnut Grove antenna farm with high strength and have my CM4228 pointed towards Walnut Grove.

TIA

Why am I able to get KQED with much better signal strength than KVIE --> even though I live 30miles EAST of Sac in EDH.


Do you always get KQED? If it's a fairly recent finding, it's signal propagation that's happening. I'm in Fair Oaks, and a couple nights a week I can get some of the SF stations on my Mits 48511. Not sure of the signal strength, however, since the Mits has no strength meter.

If it always happens, try turning your antenna slightly more to the south, and that should bump up the signal strength for all of your Sacramento stations, assuming you have good line of sight.

Some folks who live on the side of the foothills are blessed with great signal reception of both Sacramento and SF stations nearly year-round.

My antenna is pointed right at Walnut Grove turning it anymore makes me start decreasing other stations.

I've only checked KQED the last few weeks and I've been receiving it more consistently than KVIE -- that's what's got me puzzled. Is KVIE at very low power?

B

This is from the thread I started in Hardware:



This coupled with the post above indicates something needs fixing either at UPN or RCA. Thought you would want to see it.
So noted. Thanks for the info.

Bob

Hi all. I'm new here, and to the World of High Definition. I've recently set up an HDTV ready set with an old VOOM receiver to get OTA. Most channels come in fine with an old RCA vhf/uhf set-top antenna. I can get KVIE 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, and 6.4 to register with up to 95% signal strength, which seems to be fine for other channels. On KVIE, however, I still get a lot of breakup of the picture and sound, to a point which makes it unwatchable. According to antennaweb, this (along with KTXL) is the closest station to my house (East Sac, 35th and Folsom). I'd love to get the kids programming for my daughter, and what I have seen of their regular HD programming looks great. Is there anything different with KVIE, as far as the signal they send. From what I've seen, 95% is a very good signal. Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks,

Turaco :)

Hi all. I'm new here, and to the World of High Definition. I've recently set up an HDTV ready set with an old VOOM receiver to get OTA. Most channels come in fine with an old RCA vhf/uhf set-top antenna. I can get KVIE 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, and 6.4 to register with up to 95% signal strength, which seems to be fine for other channels. On KVIE, however, I still get a lot of breakup of the picture and sound, to a point which makes it unwatchable. According to antennaweb, this (along with KTXL) is the closest station to my house (East Sac, 35th and Folsom). I'd love to get the kids programming for my daughter, and what I have seen of their regular HD programming looks great. Is there anything different with KVIE, as far as the signal they send. From what I've seen, 95% is a very good signal. Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks,

Turaco :)

Set top antennas are susceptible to multipath problems. You would have better luck with an outdoor antenna.

As an update, thanks to Bob Hess and Rick McCamy for their help in getting KCBS-DT (D* Ch.81) activated. Since I'm in Tracy, I didn't need a waiver from Chico or SF.

Congrats! Interesting that they didn't ask you for a waiver from KPIX, since even though you're in Tracy, you're closer geographically to S.F. than those of us in Sacramento.

The whole system is wacky. Yesterday I got a card in the mail from D* letting me know that my request to receive ANALOG DNS from CBS and ABC was denied. Huh? I never asked for any such thing ...

[QUOTE=videojanitor]Congrats! Interesting that they didn't ask you for a waiver from KPIX, since even though you're in Tracy, you're closer geographically to S.F. than those of us in Sacramento.

QUOTE]


Actually were only 38 miles from the attenna farm in Walnut Grove, and 65 miles from Mt. Sutro.

Exactly -- I'm 85 miles from Sutro (as the crow files) so why would they ask me for a waiver from KPIX, and not you? That's what I meant when I said their whole system is wacky!

You would think that a memo from the people at the top, sent to supervising CSR's, and then dispersed to front line CSR's, would clean this all up.
But when you look at it Nationally, with all the affiliates, and all the different situations, perhaps it is difficult.
If I was going to make a recommendation, I would suggest regional CSR's, who then could become familiar with DMA's and overlaps, and certain stations policies.
As it is right now, it is impossible for a CSR in Boise to know what the current policy is in Sacramento and Tampa Bay and Pensacola, so they glaze over and guess.
However, D*'s policy should be if you have a waiver, accept it. If the local doesn't object, D* has no business objecting. If they suspect fraud or counterfeiting, one phone call should answer that.

ps/edit; though the delays and confusion could be purposeful, in a left-handed attempt to protect their dealings with NAB, which is not fond of DNS.

I am new to this area of the forums. After reading through only several pages of the almost 70 of this thread, I didn't find any comment regarding recommendations. What do you guys in the area think is the best source for HDTV available to us for the best price?

I currently just have analog comcast. I had signed up for their digital w/ HDTV and was disappointed at the time since many channels had poor quality (still analog I think), and the very limited number of HDTV channels offered. So, I decided to save the $15 extra a month and go back to analog.

I recently picked up an old voom box for OTA pickup, but that is now working as well as I hoped on my older 4:3, 51", rear proj. Panny.
I live in Antelope and get 13+ stations with my TV top zenith antenna. What disappoints me there, is that I get black side pillars on most broadcasts, so it looks bad on my 4:3.

Not sure if I should change sources now for better quality or just wait till I upgrade my TV which should be within a year.

Thank you!

Patriots???

LOL! Ya, Go Pats!

Born and raised in Massachusetts for 24 yrs, then moved out here to Sac. Love the climate here much more. New England is a great place to be from, but I wouldn't want to return, except for a visit.

Rooting for the Sox and the Pats, kinda give me a connection to back home. :)

Turaco,

I see the same thing with KVIE. I live about 10 miles farther from the transmitter than you do. But I have a real good, outdoor antenna system. Most of the time the signal is fine. Sometimes it is so screwed up I cannot stand it. Ofcourse, this usually happens when it is a program I particularly want to watch. Always seems to work well when they are having a fund-raising period though.

I think most of the problems we see with KVIE are due to problems in their feed from PBS and studio equipment, and sometimes what they transmit digitally, not in receiving the broadcast signal. KVIE has had the most half-assed approach to getting up and reliable with DT of any station in the area. Sometimes makes me wonder what they have for a chief engineer. But he may be doing as well as he can with what managment gives him. Management dragged their feet for years and the station still isn't where it should be. Ofcourse, they aren't funded by for-profit corporations with deep pockets, either. Still, I think they could have done a lot better than they have.

Curious about whether anyone else has this problem: for the past few weeks, my HD Tivo recording of House has flaked out toward the end. The signal appears to deteriorate badly and eventually the Tivo just skips large chunks of the program. Has anyone else had problem with Fox 40's digital signal? I've had the KVIE problem as well, and lost segments of the new show called Innovation. House is the only Fox show I Tivo at this time. Not having problems with other programs such as the CSIs on 13.

Alan

This was probably mentioned in a much earlier post, but what is with KVIE broadcasting in 720p? Isn't the rest of PBS 1080i?

If you have a Dish 811 receiver running 2.89 software and have experienced the NO INFO bug, please head on over to this forum to post (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=44558) your results and participate in the poll.

Thanks for your time.

...what is with KVIE broadcasting in 720p? Isn't the rest of PBS 1080i?

I don't know if they do this anymore, but KVIE used to switch to 1080i when showing real HD material. That's only a few hours per day between 2am-4am, shows like 'Desert Speaks' and 'Smart Travels'. It's ALL re-runs so I haven't tuned in over a year.

Hammer

I am new to this area of the forums. After reading through only several pages of the almost 70 of this thread, I didn't find any comment regarding recommendations. What do you guys in the area think is the best source for HDTV available to us for the best price?

I currently just have analog comcast. I had signed up for their digital w/ HDTV and was disappointed at the time since many channels had poor quality (still analog I think), and the very limited number of HDTV channels offered. So, I decided to save the $15 extra a month and go back to analog.

I recently picked up an old voom box for OTA pickup, but that is now working as well as I hoped on my older 4:3, 51", rear proj. Panny.
I live in Antelope and get 13+ stations with my TV top zenith antenna. What disappoints me there, is that I get black side pillars on most broadcasts, so it looks bad on my 4:3.

Not sure if I should change sources now for better quality or just wait till I upgrade my TV which should be within a year.

Thank you!

How long ago did you have Comcast?
IMO, if price is a big factor OTA can't be beat since it's free but Comcast is also pretty good assumming you go with their Dish buyback promo (they give you $400 in programming credits). I think Comcast offers enough HD for me at the moment. Then it will be Dish/DirecTV.

If you want the most channels in HD you have to go with E*. but they don' have an accessible HDDVR (at least to me). Also E* will charge aditional 100 bucks to install the required Dish for 61.5 unless you had V* then I think you're set.

Hate to repeat myself, but I didn't get any response and I'm wondering if anybody besides myself has had difficulty with Fox 40's HD signal. I lost signal several times while recording House two weeks in a row, so I was curious about whether others have had problems with the Fox affiliate in Sac. Thanks for any info you can provide.

Alan

I don't know much about DVR's since I don't have one, but I would think if you could tell it to record from a set time to a set time, you would be better off since for some reason, my FOX signal will do strange things. I don't know if it has anything to do with your problems, but sometimes the info about the show will pop up on the screen right before the show comes back from commercials, like I changed channels or something, even though I never touched it.

That's interesting...I know that there's apparent breakup (because I can see it -- so I guess it's more than "apparent"), and sometimes whole chunks of the program fail to record. I've assumed it's signal problems, but maybe it's the flaky issue you've described.

I'm wondering if anybody besides myself has had difficulty with Fox 40's HD signal.

I haven't been watching House since it's in reruns, but I haven't noticed any problems with with KTXL's digital signal. I try to watch House tonight -- let me know if you have an issue, and we can compare notes.

...I'm wondering if anybody besides myself has had difficulty with Fox 40's HD signal...

I've been ranting about FOX40's signal for months, but no one pitched in. I finally gave up on everyone and assumed it was interferance from thick summer leaf growth on trees between me and the towers. I still don't want to believe that, because it would mean relocating my mast.

Hammer

Seemed okay tonight in Martinez. Other times though....

I watched Hell's Kitchen on KXLT (from Monday). I know it's not HD, but there were certainly signal break-ups during it. I did, however, get the entire program.

I watched House during the regular season, and I didn't notice problems then, so I think the signal problems with FOX are new.

And there are certainly no leafy trees around me to interfere with the signal !!

Tracey

I watched Hell's Kitchen on KXLT (from Monday). I know it's not HD, but there were certainly signal break-ups during it. I did, however, get the entire program.

KXLT? Hey, that's a new one. Usually people mis-ID it as "KXTL" :)

I didn't see any problems during House last night. On Monday night, Many stations experienced some break-ups between 9-11pm or so -- this was due to microwave fading that is common on hot summer nights. When conditions are exactly right (or wrong if you prefer), the hot air will cause the microwave signal that's being sent from the studio to the transmitter to "bend," and thus miss its target (the receiving dish) -- when this happens, the signal is lost, and you get (in the case of digital) breakup. On the analog side, you might see brief noise bursts, or glitches.

KXLT? Hey, that's a new one. Usually people mis-ID it as "KXTL" :)

I didn't see any problems during House last night. On Monday night, Many stations experienced some break-ups between 9-11pm or so -- this was due to microwave fading that is common on hot summer nights. When conditions are exactly right (or wrong if you prefer), the hot air will cause the microwave signal that's being sent from the studio to the transmitter to "bend," and thus miss its target (the receiving dish) -- when this happens, the signal is lost, and you get (in the case of digital) breakup. On the analog side, you might see brief noise bursts, or glitches.

Note to self - no posting before morning coffee!! Hey, at least I remembered that there's a 40 in Roman numerals in there :p That's the only way I keep KTXL and KXTV straight (that's right, yes???)

That's a good description of what I was seeing on Monday night's recordings. I was back east and have no idea whether it was warm or not, but I've heard that it was. Useful information, thanks.

Tracey

Yep, it was mighty steamy on Monday night. The upside is, the same thing that causes these microwave issues can also make for good OTA reception from the Bay Area stations. There have been several times in the past week were I got perfect reception of KTVU-DT, KRON-DT, KGO-DT and KBHK-DT. It's kind of novel to be able to see these stations with absolutely pristine picture -- something that was never possible with analog (no matter how good it got, it was never totally noise-free).

...the hot air will cause the microwave signal that's being sent from the studio to the transmitter to "bend," and thus miss its target (the receiving dish) -- when this happens, the signal is lost, and you get (in the case of digital) breakup...

So when this happens, does the signal coming out of the tower to my stb actually drop in strength? If I were watching my signal meter during a microwave breakup, would I see it fluctuate? Or does that stay constant and the picture and/or sound just breaks up?

Hammer

I don't believe you'd be able to see any fluctuation in signal strength, since the transmitter power is not being affected -- only the signal being fed INTO it. I'm not 100% certain of this though ...

So when this happens, does the signal coming out of the tower to my stb actually drop in strength? If I were watching my signal meter during a microwave breakup, would I see it fluctuate? Or does that stay constant and the picture and/or sound just breaks up?

Hammer

If you are seeing signal strength variations, you are experiencing a different problem. I would seriously consider moving your mast away from those trees you mentioned.

The thing is NONE of the other stations have the problem. Wouldn't you think that every station's signal wobble and zonk to zero? Unless the leaves are tuned to FOX's frequency:)

Hammer

Watched my Tivo'd House last night and there were two very brief breakups, but no picture lost. Got the whole show for the first time in several weeks. Of course, it might be my antenna. There's always the possibility that it's melting in the heat. That's similar to the microwave problem, but more location-dependent.

The thing is NONE of the other stations have the problem. Wouldn't you think that every station's signal wobble and zonk to zero? Unless the leaves are tuned to FOX's frequency:)

Hammer

Not necessarily, everything involved in the transmission and reception of RF signals is frequency dependent, including the size of the leaves.

How long ago did you have Comcast?
IMO, if price is a big factor OTA can't be beat since it's free but Comcast is also pretty good assuming you go with their Dish buyback promo (they give you $400 in programming credits). I think Comcast offers enough HD for me at the moment. Then it will be Dish/DirecTV.

If you want the most channels in HD you have to go with E*. but they don' have an accessible HDDVR (at least to me). Also E* will charge additional 100 bucks to install the required Dish for 61.5 unless you had V* then I think you're set.

I had HDTV comcast a little over a yr ago. I do see now that they offer the 4 major network channels plus Discovery. 3 more than they did when I had them. But, even now with analog, I get poor reception on several channels. like ch. 4 is always snowy. I would also like a DVR, but I know that comcast charges a lot for them. I think I could get a better deal per month from dish w/ a single hdtv receiver and 2 tuner DVR, plus a standard box for the fourth TV. And since I do not currently have a DISH, I guess that leaves me SOL for getting a great promo from comcast.

From what I've seen, direct is more expensive since you have to buy the receivers. Technology changes too quickly... I would hate to spend $700 on equipment that would probably be replaced in 2 years with newer models.

And since I am new to all this, what exactly is E*? I cant place that name.

Thanx!

I had HDTV comcast a little over a yr ago. I do see now that they offer the 4 major network channels plus Discovery. 3 more than they did when I had them. But, even now with analog, I get poor reception on several channels. like ch. 4 is always snowy. I would also like a DVR, but I know that comcast charges a lot for them. I think I could get a better deal per month from dish w/ a single hdtv receiver and 2 tuner DVR, plus a standard box for the fourth TV. And since I do not currently have a DISH, I guess that leaves me SOL for getting a great promo from comcast.

From what I've seen, direct is more expensive since you have to buy the receivers. Technology changes too quickly... I would hate to spend $700 on equipment that would probably be replaced in 2 years with newer models.

And since I am new to all this, what exactly is E*? I cant place that name.

Thanx!
E* = Echostar (Dishnetwork)

Comcast's HDDVR costs $10/month in addition to the programming (some people argue the DVR costs $15/month since the programming includes a $5/month box rental fee).

But since E* charges $10/month for HD programming ($15 if you include the VOOM channels) and another $5 for the DVR, I don't see Comcast being more expensive. You also get local sports (Giants, Kings, A's, Sharks) in HD, which you don't get with E*.

Don't mean to sound like a conmercial, since Comcast does have it's own set issues.

Anyone else experiencing drop outs with channel 10.1? Since last weekend, it has been pretty bad for me. All other stations are fine.

Hey, has anyone heard anything about KOVR possibly switching back to regular prime time, instead of late-prime programming?

Since we don't watch all our local programming in the theater, we don't watch in HD unless it is something we know will be good.

But, even now with analog, I get poor reception on several channels. like ch. 4 is always snowy.

Analog quality is not good on comcast.

I would also like a DVR, but I know that comcast charges a lot for them. I think I could get a better deal per month from dish w/ a single hdtv receiver and 2 tuner DVR, plus a standard box for the fourth TV.

I think as a new sub Comcast would not be as good as any of the satellite companies and if you have to have DVR and don't want to fork a lot of money Dish Network may be best for you. Just be ware that if you want something similar to the Comcast HDTV DVR with two tuners you have to pay 250 bucks I think. Their free DVR's are not HD capable. Also they don't have the 4 networks available (you can get them with an antenna for free) but they have more HD channels with the Voom package. So depending on what you want to watch/have keep that in mind

And since I do not currently have a DISH, I guess that leaves me SOL for getting a great promo from comcast.

you could try going to a fleamarket and get an old dish then get the $400 bucks promo. Actually the guys that was at my place did not even say or ask anything about Dish Network.

From what I've seen, direct is more expensive since you have to buy the receivers. Technology changes too quickly... I would hate to spend $700 on equipment that would probably be replaced in 2 years with newer models.

For HD-DVR DirectV this is the more expensive option although they have lowered the price of their equipment.
There is a rumor that they will be offering leases on HDDVR later this year to compte better with cable so if you want to wait this is another option.

For HD-DVR DirectV this is the more expensive option although they have lowered the price of their equipment.
There is a rumor that they will be offering leases on HDDVR later this year to compte better with cable so if you want to wait this is another option.


I was told that I should wait to get a DirecTV HD-DVR until they start pushing out the MPEG-4 units. When they convert my area to MPEG-4, they will have to give me a new receiver anyway and at that point, I will probably be able to say that I want DVR capability as well.
We shall see.

tmanXX-

I know this is a little late to the party, but hey I can't resist chiming in.
Your decision, of course, will predominantly be determined by what you want to watch. If you feel you need more channels, than by all means I think Comcast is a pretty good deal or E*, especially for HDTV. Of course, if you really like Battlestar Gallactica, for example, that may compel you to go with D*, as they, in this area, I think, are the only ones to offer Universal HD. Which shows some pretty high quality shows in HD including SciFi's BSG.

If, however, like me, you subscribe to something like NetFlix or Blockbuster Online, I just rent the shows I want to watch that I can't that are on extended channels, and get OTA TV. I find, for myself, it's hard to beat free.

If you're a big Kings fan, you may want to go with Comcast, being a Pats fan perhaps Sunday Ticket would tempt you to D*. In someways the situation is too person-specific to give really good advice. I went with OTA TV, because it's by far the best value for me in HD programming. Of course, YMMV.

Direct TV currently gives me everything I want to see in HD except for the Kings games in HD and TNT-HD. I can live without TNT, but watching Kings games in SD knowing that there is HD out there is really bugging me. It seems like the best I could out of Comcast last fall was to use the dish trade in program and get their HD package and receiver for around $35 a month for only a limited time. I figured I would give them one of my old dishes and a dead receiver and keep both providers. Even that's pretty hard to justify for a few Kings games in HD a month and knowing I was going to pay full fare in due time. Pulling the plug on Directv is just never going to happen. The analog channels on Comcast are just plain garbage on my plasma. When Directv picked up the Comcast Sports channel a few weeks later, it looked better than it did on Comcast. I dropped Comcast after about a month because it just wasn't worth it. I just wish I could figure a way to get the Comcast HD Kings games and keep my monthly contribution to Comcast at a minimum.

You should be able to go with only around $23 or so - I think you can get basic cable for $17 + $5 for the HD box.

Thats about as cheap as you can get.

Direct TV currently gives me everything I want to see in HD except for the Kings games in HD and TNT-HD. I can live without TNT, but watching Kings games in SD knowing that there is HD out there is really bugging me....The analog channels on Comcast are just plain garbage on my plasma...I just wish I could figure a way to get the Comcast HD Kings games and keep my monthly contribution to Comcast at a minimum.

I feel the same...except I would also add the lack of the Giants in HD as a real problem for me. It drives me crazy to know that most of their home games...broadcast on Fox Sports...are in HD and I'm sitting there watching a lousy SD picture.

I'll probably switch to Comcast because of D*'s lack of HD sports content.

You should be able to go with only around $23 or so - I think you can get basic cable for $17 + $5 for the HD box.

Thats about as cheap as you can get.

That would be a bargain, but last time I checked they wanted $43 for the full package before you could subsribe to HD, and then you throw in $$$ for the HD receiver and HD programming and what are you looking at...$60 a month or so for the Kings? Couldn't it be more reasonable? I think a lower cost for HD only would be a win-win for both the customer and Comcast. Comcast needs to employ an economist to assist them in their decision maklng.

What's up with KCRA not showing either the Tonight Show and Conan repeat broadcasts in HD? KCRA abandons the HD telecasts just so it can insert Extra between Carson Daly and the the Leno repeat? How incredibly asinine is that?

And speaking of KCRA, when is the station going to get a decent antenna for its SD broadcasts? Its signal is pitiful; KCRA should be embarrassed. Sacramento deserves a new NBC affiliate.

Yes, KCRA is one of the worst offenders when it comes to throwing the HD switch even during primetime non-repeat programming. Best option so far is to use email to NAG them, since they won't answer the phone real-time.

Are you talking about the analog vhf channel 3? Typically bad reception on the lower vhf channels comes from power-line interferance, and is pretty hard to filter out. Anyways, why should they put any effort into a technology that will be shut down in only a few years from now?

Hammer

I just activated a new D* H10 receiver and all works well, except I am not getiing any audio on KMAX-DT (31-1). I have gone through the OTA set-up many times already without any luck. Any suggestions or ideas?

What's up with KCRA not showing either the Tonight Show and Conan repeat broadcasts in HD? KCRA abandons the HD telecasts just so it can insert Extra between Carson Daly and the the Leno repeat? How incredibly asinine is that?

And speaking of KCRA, when is the station going to get a decent antenna for its SD broadcasts? Its signal is pitiful; KCRA should be embarrassed. Sacramento deserves a new NBC affiliate.

KCRA did replace their analog antenna within the last couple of years. If you are talking about the SD programs on the digital channel, the poor quality of that signal has nothing to do with the antenna. That blurry looking mess can be attributed to either a poor quality NTSC decoder or a lousy upconverter.

You should be able to go with only around $23 or so - I think you can get basic cable for $17 + $5 for the HD box.

Thats about as cheap as you can get.

That would be a bargain, but last time I checked they wanted $43 for the full package before you could subsribe to HD, and then you throw in $$$ for the HD receiver and HD programming and what are you looking at...$60 a month or so for the Kings? Couldn't it be more reasonable? I think a lower cost for HD only would be a win-win for both the customer and Comcast. Comcast needs to employ an economist to assist them in their decision maklng.

I would certainly be willing to go with $17 + $5, but my talks with Comcast came out more like igreg's math.
Is there anyone who is getting the HD Kings games on Comcast for under $25 a month?

I think igreg is right, the 17+5 only gets you the basic channels (Broadcast channels that Comcast carries in HD), a number of Kings games are in HD on KXTV, which is enough for me.

To get the Comcast Sports Net in HD is going to cost you more.

The Real problem is that (hey Bob) KMAX doesn't carry nearly enough A's games ;).

tmanXX-

I know this is a little late to the party, but hey I can't resist chiming in.
Your decision, of course, will predominantly be determined by what you want to watch. If you feel you need more channels, than by all means I think Comcast is a pretty good deal or E*, especially for HDTV. Of course, if you really like Battlestar Gallactica, for example, that may compel you to go with D*, as they, in this area, I think, are the only ones to offer Universal HD. Which shows some pretty high quality shows in HD including SciFi's BSG.

If, however, like me, you subscribe to something like NetFlix or Blockbuster Online, I just rent the shows I want to watch that I can't that are on extended channels, and get OTA TV. I find, for myself, it's hard to beat free.

If you're a big Kings fan, you may want to go with Comcast, being a Pats fan perhaps Sunday Ticket would tempt you to D*. In someways the situation is too person-specific to give really good advice. I went with OTA TV, because it's by far the best value for me in HD programming. Of course, YMMV.


Thanx for the input. It is much appreciated. This is not a decision I am rushing into, so taking a month to make my mind up is not a problem. Since I am not native to CA, I am not a huge fan of the Kings or the A's, so not getting them wouldn't bother me too much. BSG would be awesome to get in HDTV, so, I think that option by itself would sway me towards dish. As for their HD-DVR, ya, that $250 lease is more than I would want to spend, so I would probably just go with their non-DVR receiver. I have a spare computer with a HDTV tuner and capture card. I could use that as my DVR for HDTV. :)
And for the local channels, just get an antenna for the dish and pick them up via OTA.

One thing I did find out about their HD-DVR, even though it supports two TVs, it only supports one in HD; the other is only SD :( So, if I end up getting a second HDTV, I would still need another tuner. So, going with their 811, a 625 for $20, and a 510, should satisfy my current needs. If I upgrade to a second HDTV, I just trade in the 510 and get a second 811.

As for one issue I have right now, I am using an old V* box for OTA with a Zenith TV top antenna and I get about 13 channels. Most of the signals I get are fine as far as PQ goes, but many have those damn black side pillars, squeezing a 4:3 display even tighter. I don't know if that is a problem from the way the station broadcasts, the way the V* box works, or the way my older 4:3 handles the incoming signal.

I have really close ties with someone in the Special Promotions/Competitive Department in Comcast. he hooked me up with a digital package + HD + DVR for $32 with about 100++ ch and comcast sports net. He is pretty good with technical stuff too and helped me hook everything up, as i addressed the poor blurry lower channels. I'm not too good with this stuff but i'll try to explain as best i can without screwing anything up: he said something about a "double conversion" when the lower channel went through the box, making the signal blurry. and it could be fixed. he hooked up a tiny box that splits the cable to go to my tv straight for the lower channels and the other to the box for the higher channels (70+ on) It was a pain in the but and still is but i'm still getting used to it, but in a nutshell, lower channels i use my tv remote to watch they come in nice and clear, higher channels, i go to video 5 and use the comcast remote. did make sense? I hope so. anyway, i can forward you my buddy's contact info, I am sure he would want to get some business from this forum.

please forgive the humble noob for typing too much.

dragonvoi, what channel is it that you start using the cable box? I have a buddy in Pleasanton who is complaining of the poor quality of video on Comcast.

tmanxx-

I hope I didn't confuse, but just to make sure it is clear, Universal HD is on DirecTV not Dish Network. With DirecTV though, most seem to be suggesting to wait until the MPEG-4 rollout, slated for around November.

dragonvoi, what channel is it that you start using the cable box? I have a buddy in Pleasanton who is complaining of the poor quality of video on Comcast.
i just use channels 2-73 on my standard tuner and every thing else through the box, basically whatever my TV can tune in to by autoprogramming.

Channels 2-73 on Comcast look better if they don't go thru their box. So make use of the Tv tuner by splitting the cable and feeding one line to the tv tuner and another to the cable box

tmanxx-

I hope I didn't confuse, but just to make sure it is clear, Universal HD is on DirecTV not Dish Network. With DirecTV though, most seem to be suggesting to wait until the MPEG-4 rollout, slated for around November.

Oh, OK. Ya, I did think you meant dish. As for going the direct route, I will wait and see what happens with mpeg-4.

Thank you again.

And dragonvoi, I understand how you have your system configured and you are watching the lower channels in analog; but, I really don't see that as a solution. comcast should be able to deliver great PQ fully digital without having to change sources. And I am currently using only analog and get poor quality, so the way you have your system setup, wouldn't solve my poor PQ.

Analog is bad to begin with, nothing is going to change that. Comcast will have go all digital and upgrade their DVR software to TIVO before they get my attention.

whats up with 31.1 audio signal?? I get nothing. I know it has nothing to do with my setup, especially after seeing someone else had the same problem. Anyone know?

Comcast will have go all digital and upgrade their DVR software to TIVO before they get my attention.

Would you mind describing what the current Comcast software is missing vs Tivo. Perhaps this will help others. Maybe do it in the Sacramento Comcast thread. I never had the Tivo software :confused: so I don't know what am I missing. I do have E* and Comcast HDDVR software is better than E* 510 DVR software.

Tivo has several features that some like, but that I never use. You can create wishlists by actor, director, title, or subject, and Tivo will record matches for you. Or, you can let Tivo record its "suggestions." Based on your recording habits, it will record what it thinks are similar programs. That's good for a laugh, or deep therapy.

On the useful side, recordings are "name based." If a show is shifted to another timeslot or rescheduled (and Tivo has notification -- so sports programming delays and overruns do not count, nor do breaking news interruptions), the Tivo records the program at its newly scheduled or changed time. That is handy.

whats up with 31.1 audio signal?? I get nothing. I know it has nothing to do with my setup, especially after seeing someone else had the same problem. Anyone know?
Originally Posted by oldguy1
This is a known problem with the RCA DTC 210 (also with one of the Samsung STB's). D* refuses to admit they have had any complaints about this even though many forums say D*, Samsung and RCA are working on a fix.

I live in Columbus, Ohio and have the same problem with UPN channel 53-1.

I suspect D* is sending info in the guide data that does not agree with UPN broadcasters nationwide. I thought it was a D* problem, but now after seeing this, it seems to be with many UPN stations, I suspect UPN.

Originally Posted by oldguy1
This is a known problem with the RCA DTC 210 (also with one of the Samsung STB's). D* refuses to admit they have had any complaints about this even though many forums say D*, Samsung and RCA are working on a fix.

I live in Columbus, Ohio and have the same problem with UPN channel 53-1.

I suspect D* is sending info in the guide data that does not agree with UPN broadcasters nationwide. I thought it was a D* problem, but now after seeing this, it seems to be with many UPN stations, I suspect UPN.




31-1 comes in fine on my HD Tivo box, but my new H10 box doesn't pick up the audio.

This is beginning to look like a UPN problem on a large scale, Bob, time to call corporate!
sdk- go into set up, off air location, remove any zip codes, lose lots of programming info on all OTA's, if you want to hear KMAX, that is.

Alien Space Invaders are hijacking the signal. They're using our own satellites against us!!!

Back to the picture of the tin-foil hat.

According to a story in this morning's Sacramento Bee, KOVR will not be dumping their early prime schedule. This should get interesting when Late Show with David Letterman goes HD in a couple of weeks.

Interesting. So, we will have the same issues as before...

Why is this a problem? The early broadcasts are not in HD?

According to a story in this morning's Sacramento Bee, KOVR will not be dumping their early prime schedule. This should get interesting when Late Show with David Letterman goes HD in a couple of weeks.
We will be moving prime HD so that it will be in sync with the analog side. Exact date not yet determined but probably within a month.

Bob

Do we have anyone with contacts in our ABC local station? I keep on having issues with closed captioning on that channel alone. I emailed them and got a reply blaming my HDTV STB (LG 3510A). I also have the Comcast Box (6412) and it experiences the same problems. I have tested the other major networks and they both come up ok with CC. has someone experience this? Can someone try cc with another STB that is not LG 3510 or Moto 6412.

We will be moving prime HD so that it will be in sync with the analog side. Exact date not yet determined but probably within a month.

Bob

That works for me.

So, Bob, to make sure I am reading this correctly, you will be broadcasting the HD feed early prime as well as the SD feed?

If so, this is good for me, since I currently cannot watch CSI: Miami in HD because it comes on at 10pm, which is my bedtime. Dang early starting job! I assume I am one of many who are in this same boat and I would appreciate the early prime HD!

So, Bob, to make sure I am reading this correctly, you will be broadcasting the HD feed early prime as well as the SD feed?

That appears to be what he is saying. If so, that will be cool -- I work nights, so I have to HD TiVo everything -- thus it doesn't really matter to me WHEN the shows air. What DOES matter is the confusing issues that arise when the 7pm programs airs TWICE -- once in SD, and once in HD. Their new way of doing things will get rid of that problem, which will be sweet.

I assume this means they'll also be able to present Letterman in HD at 11pm -- that would be very cool as well -- though supposedly Letterman HD will start on August 29th ... I wonder what they'll do if they're not ready to "tape delay" HD by then?

We will be moving prime HD so that it will be in sync with the analog side. Exact date not yet determined but probably within a month.

Bob


I thought the affiliates had to use the network feeds to be able to show the programs in HD. If not, then why do we receive Leno and Conan repeats on KCRA in SD since KCRA inexplicably decided to abandon the network feed by running "Extra" between Carson Daly and the Leno encore?

I thought the affiliates had to use the network feeds to be able to show the programs in HD. If not, then why do we receive Leno and Conan repeats on KCRA in SD since KCRA inexplicably decided to abandon the network feed by running "Extra" between Carson Daly and the Leno encore?

The station needs to have a way to record the east coast HD feed and play it back later, either on tape or through a server. Apparently, KOVR has made this investment.

Called D* a couple of months ago about getting CBS-LA, denied. Called last week and channel 81 turned on Monday. Thanks to all of you who bugged them. I didn't have to write Chico, San Francisco, or Hays, Kansas. Also I want to thank Bob Hess for his efforts. Since I am also a early riser I appreciate 13's early prime. No HDTV TiVo, looking forward to the earlier HD broadcasts.

The station needs to have a way to record the east coast HD feed and play it back later, either on tape or through a server. Apparently, KOVR has made this investment.
Oh yes we have....to the tune of around a megabuck worth of server and backup server.

- Bob

So, Bob, to make sure I am reading this correctly, you will be broadcasting the HD feed early prime as well as the SD feed?

If so, this is good for me, since I currently cannot watch CSI: Miami in HD because it comes on at 10pm, which is my bedtime. Dang early starting job! I assume I am one of many who are in this same boat and I would appreciate the early prime HD!
Yes, HD and SD will both start at 7 PM. Leno begins HD on August 29th. We will try real hard to have our server delay system up shortly after that.

- Bob

Leno begins HD on August 29th. We will try real hard to have our server delay system up shortly after that.

Leno? Bob, are you guys changing networks AGAIN? :D

But seriously -- if your HD delay system is not in place by the 29th, can you devulge the backup plan? ie: would you not air Letterman in HD at all, or would you start it at 11:00 in SD, and then restart it at 11:35 in HD?

This is beginning to look like a UPN problem on a large scale, Bob, time to call corporate!
sdk- go into set up, off air location, remove any zip codes, lose lots of programming info on all OTA's, if you want to hear KMAX, that is.

Alien Space Invaders are hijacking the signal. They're using our own satellites against us!!!

Okay, that worked...but why?
Also, it appears that KVIE-DT is not transmitting, again!!!

Geeze, I've gotten so used to the KOVR prime time shuffle (actually helps with the DVR'ing). Now we're going back to match the SD schedule. Ok, but now I'm really confused. Let me see if I got this straight (too)!

1. Sat-Sun: KOVR HD matches the CBS National prime time schedule.
2. Mon-Fri: KOVR's HD schedule will not match the CBS schedule (KOVR's HD primetime starts at 7pm).
3. KOVR Local News airs from 10p-11p?
4. Letterman (HD) airs from 11p-12a? or is it 11:35p-12:35a? If so what airs between 11p-11:35p???

Hammer

I can confirm that KVIE-DT is not transmitting. :(

Okay, that worked...but why?
Also, it appears that KVIE-DT is not transmitting, again!!!

As for the fix, no one seems to be sure, and apparently D*'s CSR's are unaware of any problem. From what I've gathered up, this is happening in various locations around the country, only with UPN, with D*'s RCA DTC 210, the similar Samsung box, and the H-10.
It may relate to some incompatibility between UPN's data and DirecTV's STB's. I may drop KMAX-DT from my box as I really use the info when channel surfing.

On the other; KVIE-DT coming in at 10:48am in Walnut Creek.

It may relate to some incompatibility between UPN's data and DirecTV's STB's. I may drop KMAX-DT from my box as I really use the info when channel surfing.

This is a DirecTV problem. We're working with them. As a subscriber you should be driving them crazy to get this fixed.

- Bob

Geeze, I've gotten so used to the KOVR prime time shuffle (actually helps with the DVR'ing). Now we're going back to match the SD schedule. Ok, but now I'm really confused. Let me see if I got this straight (too)!

1. Sat-Sun: KOVR HD matches the CBS National prime time schedule.
2. Mon-Fri: KOVR's HD schedule will not match the CBS schedule (KOVR's HD primetime starts at 7pm).
3. KOVR Local News airs from 10p-11p?
4. Letterman (HD) airs from 11p-12a? or is it 11:35p-12:35a? If so what airs between 11p-11:35p???

Hammer
Here's the deal:

The same programming will air at the same times on both the HD and SD sides. Your program guides should be correct when we change over. Letterman airs in HD at 11 PM once we get the new servers on line.

- Bob

Leno? Bob, are you guys changing networks AGAIN? :D

But seriously -- if your HD delay system is not in place by the 29th, can you devulge the backup plan? ie: would you not air Letterman in HD at all, or would you start it at 11:00 in SD, and then restart it at 11:35 in HD?

Letterman may be upconverted for a few days. I hope that will not be the case, however.

- Bob

Letterman may be upconverted for a few days. I hope that will not be the case, however.

Thanks Bob. I know you guys must be working day and night to make this happen.
Don't hurt yourselves! If you don't make it, at least I have a backup source (KCBS-DT via DirecTV), thanks to you.

So this means KOVR is staying with Early Prime. I thought it was a forgone conclusion that they would be going to regular Prime Time.... guess not!

... Your program guides should be correct when we change over...
- Bob

I sure hope this fixes the problem with Dish receivers and 13.1 not showing any program data. Only 13.2 shows program data and it goes without saying has the same issues of accuracy due to the early prime time schedule.

Bob, any reason why 13.2 would stick around after all the planets are in alignment and 13.1 and 13.2 have identical programming schedules? I mean, they are the same thing, except one is HD and on is SD - after all this is how KTXL, KCRA, KQCA, KMAX, & KXTV do it. Plain and simple. Just one channel with accurate program guide data.

Keep up the good work.

This is a DirecTV problem. We're working with them. As a subscriber you should be driving them crazy to get this fixed.

- Bob

Cool, a new crusade! I am good a getting DirecTv's attention.

Bob, any reason why 13.2 would stick around after all the planets are in alignment and 13.1 and 13.2 have identical programming schedules? I mean, they are the same thing, except one is HD and on is SD - after all this is how KTXL, KCRA, KQCA, KMAX, & KXTV do it. Plain and simple. Just one channel with accurate program guide data.
We do have some cable systems taking our 13.2 feed, instead of the analog, so I think it will stay around.

- Bob

We do have some cable systems taking our 13.2 feed, instead of the analog, so I think it will stay around. - Bob

I suppose it would be too much to ask the cable providers taking your OTA feed to down convert your 13.1 1080i signal to 480i. Oh well. Guess it doesn't hurt to ask. Thanks Bob.

I suppose it would be too much to ask the cable providers taking your OTA feed to down convert your 13.1 1080i signal to 480i. Oh well. Guess it doesn't hurt to ask. Thanks Bob.
The aspect ratio (4x3) is the problem. Down converting the 16x9 prime time feeds correctly is not easy for them to do. I would prefer to shut down the second stream.

- Bob

yeah i guess you're right. sometimes stretching is appropriate, other times letter boxing is appropriate... and you have to throw in pan and scan as well as overscan into the picture too. :) and no one wants black bars on their 4:3 sets that's for sure LOL :)

Here's the deal:

The same programming will air at the same times on both the HD and SD sides. Your program guides should be correct when we change over. Letterman airs in HD at 11 PM once we get the new servers on line.

- Bob

Thanks for clearing that up for us! One more little question about KOVR...

Last season it was a well known fact that KOVR screwed up the 5.1 audio on many, many occasions during primetime HD. Will this be fixed? Is the audio switching still gonna be manual, or is it going automatic?

Hammer

Thanks for clearing that up for us! One more little question about KOVR...

Last season it was a well known fact that KOVR screwed up the 5.1 audio on many, many occasions during primetime HD. Will this be fixed? Is the audio switching still gonna be manual, or is it going automatic?

Hammer
When we are done rebuilding the infrastrure, the HD side will be completely automated including the 5.1 switching for KOVR. Everything in the plant will be new. All digital audio and video for KMAX and KOVR. You should see and hear a difference.

- Bob

Whoo-Hoo! Thanks again. Hopefully KOVR won't choose to shut down for the transition during Prime Time Thursday. As they've been known to do also:)

Hammer

What's up with the 49er-Raiders game? Came back from the commercial break in SD.

Edit--Maybe it's in HD only when the Raiders have the ball.

Edit 2--Now they aren't even going to commercial. Must be having problems.

Hey! Once i've read the last post, KPIX fixes their BOO BOO. LOL

Great minds think alike. I posted a note on KPIX's web site asking the same question. HD only when the Raiders have the ball? Looks great now.

What's up with the 49er-Raiders game? Came back from the commercial break in SD.

Edit--Maybe it's in HD only when the Raiders have the ball.

Edit 2--Now they aren't even going to commercial. Must be having problems.

How are you receiving KPIX HD if you live in Citrus Heights? I didn't think HD signals traveled that far. Thanks.

no, KPIX played host for the HD telecast of the 49ERS vs Raider game. KPIX, most likely, granted rebroadcast rights to those 49er affiliates who wanted it. KOVR bought into it.
Hmmmm, Maybe because they are both Viacom stations KPIX gave rights for rebroadcast to its sister.

How are you receiving KPIX HD if you live in Citrus Heights? I didn't think HD signals traveled that far. Thanks.
Techdood is right, I was watching KOVR via Comcast.

How are you receiving KPIX HD if you live in Citrus Heights? I didn't think HD signals traveled that far. Thanks.

Just as an aside, OTA digital transmissions CAN travel that far, under the right conditions. If not for the mountains, we would likely get great reception of the S.F. stations all the time. Because they are blocked though, we only receive them when the atmospheric conditions are just right, allowing the signals to "bounce" into the valley. I can quite often pick up KTVU-DT, KRON-DT, KGO-DT and KBHK-DT on warm nights. It's unlikely we'd ever be able to pick up KPIX-DT though, as they're on Channel 29, and it's obliterated by KSPX (PAX) analog, which is also on 29.

Is anyone else noticing break-ups on KOVR during the PGA Championship? I think it's too intermittent to be a hard disk problem (at least I hope so!)

Tracey

Edit : okay, it's definitely not the TiVo - I'm seeing some break-up's on the built-in tuner, and I just had a "13 is now on 25" -> "25 is now on 13" PSIP-type of error on the TV.

No one else? Sacramento's not a large golfing community? :)

It's Sunday, they are out golfing, instead of watching others golf, maybe? Or perhaps they fell asleep in front of their HDTV's.

Just tuned in after the NASCAR race. Yes, occasional video breakups/blocking/green pixels... pretty much a mess.

Hammer

whats up with 31.1 audio signal?? I get nothing. I know it has nothing to do with my setup, especially after seeing someone else had the same problem. Anyone know?
hoopsrgreat- did you get the fix I posted in post 2120, I think, it was, you will lose a lot of OTA programming info, but will get your UPN sound.
What is your STB? This a problem with the DTC 210, Samsung 360, and apparently now, the new H-10.

Is anyone else noticing break-ups on KOVR during the PGA Championship? I think it's too intermittent to be a hard disk problem (at least I hope so!)

Just read your post. Yes, I noticed it, too. I'm running my antenna directly into my TV tuner. In fact, the first 15 minutes or so of the PGA tournament broadcast had no sound at all. I was totally surprised because KOVR has been rock solid for me. KXTV, however, was dropping out entirely for the last week, but seems to be fine yesterday and today.

Thanks, guys. I hear so many stories of dead Tivos that I just needed a little confirmation that I don't have a problem.

It's Sunday, they are out golfing, instead of watching others golf, maybe?

Rick, are you implying that there's more to life than sitting in front of the TV!!! :eek: We'll have to take back your AVS membership card if you continue to talk like that! :)

Tracey

Did anybody else have sound problems with desperate housewives last night?

Thanks.

Did anybody else have sound problems with desperate housewives last night?

Thanks.

Like no sound ? I turned over to NBC after a few minutes of watching DH without sound.

Troy

Yes I heard no sound on my recording, but I have yet to watch it and verfy it happened the whole time. :(

Did anybody else have sound problems with desperate housewives last night?

Thanks.

No sound here either. I just flipped it on for a minute and no sound. My DTV SD feed had sound but nothing on my OTA digital feed.

Are you saying the sound is out RIGHT NOW? Cause I flipped over to see (hear), and it's fine for me.

Hammer

Are you saying the sound is out RIGHT NOW? Cause I flipped over to see (hear), and it's fine for me.



Sorry, was referring to the beginning of DH. It's fine now for me too.

Troy

There was a problem with the primary HD IRD used to get HD from ABC. We have switched to the backup until the problem can be corrected. The master control operator can see the DTV picture off the air but they seldom listen to the digital channel. At this time we loose money if the analog has a problem but we don't if the digital channel is down. Eventually that will change but for the moment your best bet is to call if there is a problem. News is generally good about passing viewer complaints to the master control operator.

Rory at KXTV

9:45am tue 8/16 - looks like the tower with FOX KTXL 40.1 and PBS KVIE 6.x is without power. Getting 0 signal from both stations here in Grass Valley.

edit: looks like it's just the digital transmitters that are offline. Analog are coming in fine.

Both KTXL and KVIE will be off the air for tower maintenance starting at 9:40 AM Tuesday. We have a crew on the tower and we have to shut down the DTV transmitters for safety. We expect to be down for approximately 90 minutes.

Jack Davis
Chief Engineer
KTXL-DT

Everything is OK now and both stations are back on the air at 11:15 AM

Thanks for the information! Both coming in strong here again. :)

looks like i'm getting channel 81 now as well ... is d* just doing this for all hd subscribers? i don't think it has anything to do with my waiver request ... but i dunno either way.

No. I am not getting channel 81. I haven't put in a request yet. I think that I will give d* a call. Does the LA feed give you closed captions on high definition programing? If I remember right, Bob Hess said they would be on around the third week of August for KOVR. Still, with the early start for prime time here in Sac, that LA feed would be nice.

I notice audio dropouts/ momentary video freezes on the Channel 10.1 news at 11:00. Others notice? Thanks.

No. I am not getting channel 81. I haven't put in a request yet. I think that I will give d* a call. Does the LA feed give you closed captions on high definition programing? If I remember right, Bob Hess said they would be on around the third week of August for KOVR. Still, with the early start for prime time here in Sac, that LA feed would be nice.Getting close, but a few more weeks.

- Bob

Thanks for the update Bob. Sounds like it will be in time for the season premieres.

Cool test pattern tonight on KOVR!!!

I have Dish Network and get KOVR 13.1 & 13.2 OTA using an Echostar receiver. An annoying thing is that 13.1 does not show guide data in my EPG, but 13.2 does. I have an HDTV and therefore only watch 13.1, and only have that channel in favorites lists/etc. Sometimes people don't see what's on the OTA feed because there is no data in the EPG so they end up watching the satellite feed of KOVR. I know this is probably a problem at Dish since the guide data comes off the satellite, not PSIP, but Mr. Hess, can you chime in on this issue if any part of it might have to do with the guide data feed from KOVR to Dish Network? TIA!!! The reason why I ask is I've been bugging Dish like crazy about this problem but they haven't done anything about it. Thanks again.

Bob can give you the definitive answer but I get the PSIP data from an antenna OTA feed and the iGuide data on its' Comcast feed.

I have Dish Network and get KOVR 13.1 & 13.2 OTA using an Echostar receiver. An annoying thing is that 13.1 does not show guide data in my EPG, but 13.2 does. I have an HDTV and therefore only watch 13.1, and only have that channel in favorites lists/etc. Sometimes people don't see what's on the OTA feed because there is no data in the EPG so they end up watching the satellite feed of KOVR. I know this is probably a problem at Dish since the guide data comes off the satellite, not PSIP, but Mr. Hess, can you chime in on this issue if any part of it might have to do with the guide data feed from KOVR to Dish Network? TIA!!! The reason why I ask is I've been bugging Dish like crazy about this problem but they haven't done anything about it. Thanks again.
I have dish and this has been an ongoing problem.They say they will fix it but it hasnt happened yet.Im not holding my breath.

well i received a postcard from d* about my waiver request. all networks except cbs denied me. since i'm already receiving channel 81, i figured as much!

what would my next step be? i'm guessing contacting the local affiliates directly?

I did a fresh scan of OTA stations tonight just for kicks and I CAN'T believe the channels that are coming in with a strong signal. I don't know if there is a solar storm or something because the results were pretty amazing to me. I have done this about once per month since I bought the HDTV and I have never received any digital stations out of the area but tonight with good to excellent signal strength I have added the following out of the area digital channels (I deleted any non-digital).
KTVU 2 (San Fran)
KRON 4 (SF)
KGO 7 (SF)
KQED 9 (SF)
KMTP 32 (SF)
KCNS 38 (SF)
SCSM 43 (SF)
KKPX 65 (San Jose)
KFSF 66 (Vallejo)

I want to add that KRON has some beautiful HD programming on 4.2

well i received a postcard from d* about my waiver request. all networks except cbs denied me. since i'm already receiving channel 81, i figured as much!

what would my next step be? i'm guessing contacting the local affiliates directly?

Absolutely, always contact the local affiliates directly, you can state your case much more effectively than D*'s computers!

thx rick ... does anyone who successfully received a waiver from their local affiliates have the letter or verbage they used? i'm just curious if there's anything specific i should state in the letter?

Do we have anyone with contacts in our ABC local station? I keep on having issues with closed captioning on that channel alone. I emailed them and got a reply blaming my HDTV STB (LG 3510A). I also have the Comcast Box (6412) and it experiences the same problems. I have tested the other major networks and they both come up ok with CC. has someone experience this? Can someone try cc with another STB that is not LG 3510 or Moto 6412.

I have the SAMSUNG SIR-TS360 Directv receiver and am also having problems with captioning on ABC. I receive the signal on 10-1 using an antenna, and captioning has been fine until about two months ago.

I emailed them today, August 25, during the morning and found later that night that the captioning was improved. It is now fairly readable, but the first line is presented in the left-middle part of the screen. Sometimes the captioning is at the bottom of the screen, but not often. At least it is staying on the screen long enough to read but not good enough to tolerate over a long period.

They graciously reponded to my email by asking me to phone them and saying that their receivers all checked out ok. We will see what happens.

Edit

Today, August 26, I tried my old HD receiver a SAMSUNG SIR-T351 and found that 10-1 the captioning was fairly good, but about 20% of the words had one missing letter. Captioning is still mostly unreadable on my newer box mentioned above.

Roger
Folsom

I haven't tried today, but I have been having the same captioning problems on ABC with both my Samsung SIR-TS160 and High Def Tivo for what seems like a couple of weeks. I think the problem is on their end. By blaming our equipment, I think they are just plain being lazy.

Bob,
I am having a problem with KMAX. Had similar problems while watching Good Day Sacramento this morning, and the Raiders game tonight. About every 10~15 minutes the picture will freeze/pixellate and the audio just drops. It stays in this state for almost 10 seconds then goes back to normal for another 10~15 minutes. The signal seems fine in the 90's. It is happening on Dish6000, FusionII, & SIR-TS160.

Hammer
ps. I finally moved my antenna mast to a totally tree-free line of site position! All channels have been rock solid.

The Giants-Mets game on 40-1 right now, looks like wide screen SD to me. Anybody got a better picture?

Every Saturday Fox game is in 480i widescreen upconverted to 720p. The next HD baseball game we will see from Fox is when the playoffs start.

Tacky.

Well, I just received my post card from D* informing me that every Sacramento network station had denied my waiver request for digital DNS, INCLUDING CBS.

Nobody ever listens. You try and try, but they go off and do it their way.

Nobody ever listens. You try and try, but they go off and do it their way.

Well, at the risk of falling on deaf ears (eyes) here...

clevfan - screw the postcard. It means nothing when it comes to CBS.

Call up DirecTV and beg, plead and cajole until they transfer you to someone in their HD Eligibility Department. Don't stay with the first-line CSRs. Get them to transfer you.

Calmly explain to them that Viacom (CBS) owns and operates your local CBS affiliate, KOVR/13, and as such, you should be entitled to receive the CBS HDTV feed from Los Angeles with NO WAIVER.

If that doesn't work, maybe Bob Hess (KOVR/KMAX engineering) is still reading this thread and can help you...he's taken a proactive stance about this in recent weeks.

Nobody ever listens. You try and try, but they go off and do it their way.

While I enjoy reading of your exploits and determined efforts to obtain waivers/DNS from D*, it just isn't worth all that crap to me. I figured if I can get it easy, great. If not, my life will go on unaffected.
Actually, all I did was send an email to D* inquiring about CBS, and I got a reply that they had sent waiver requests to all stations on my behalf. Never asked them to send the requests in the first place.
Is it really worth the hassle of having to deal with these people? Nah.

Bob,
I am having a problem with KMAX. Had similar problems while watching Good Day Sacramento this morning, and the Raiders game tonight. About every 10~15 minutes the picture will freeze/pixellate and the audio just drops. It stays in this state for almost 10 seconds then goes back to normal for another 10~15 minutes. The signal seems fine in the 90's. It is happening on Dish6000, FusionII, & SIR-TS160.

Hammer
ps. I finally moved my antenna mast to a totally tree-free line of site position! All channels have been rock solid.
Looks like a microwave link problem on our side. We switched to the backup and the problem seems to have gone away. Looking into it. Analog side unaffected.

Bob

Bob,

Any word on whether or not you'll be passing Letterman in HD tonight? If not, how close do you think you are to being able to do it?

Thanks Bob. It did clear up the very next day.

Another note: I watched IMAX "Adrenaline" yesterday and had problems with the audio through the entire show. Basically there was micro stutters/drops in the Center and/or Front Audio channels. Did not happen during the commercials, nor during the Mark S Allen spots, only during the actual IMAX film content. Checked all three of my receivers and it was the same.

I'm also wondering about Letterman. I tuned in last Friday night at 11p and Letterman was not even on! The news was on 13.1???

Hammer

dad- What Inundated and I were trying to say is that CBS/HD/DNS in Sacramento should require no waivers. It should be accomplished with a phone call to a CSR and a request to be transferred to the HD Eligibility Desk. It could be on by the end of the phone call. Nearly hassle free.

While I enjoy reading of your exploits and determined efforts to obtain waivers/DNS from D*, it just isn't worth all that crap to me. I figured if I can get it easy, great. If not, my life will go on unaffected.
Actually, all I did was send an email to D* inquiring about CBS, and I got a reply that they had sent waiver requests to all stations on my behalf. Never asked them to send the requests in the first place.
Is it really worth the hassle of having to deal with these people? Nah.

What Inundated and I were trying to say is that CBS/HD/DNS in Sacramento should require no waivers. It should be accomplished with a phone call to a CSR and a request to be transferred to the HD Eligibility Desk. It could be on by the end of the phone call. Nearly hassle free.boy ... i wish it was that easy for all the stations. ;)

btw rick, i received a response from kxtl ... he asked for my physical address so he could "evaluate".

keepin' my fingers crossed....

btw rick, i received a response from kxtl ... he asked for my physical address so he could "evaluate".

Do you mean KTXL? I am racking my brain trying to figure out why those call letter are mistyped at least 90% of the time. They should just change them to KXTL and be done with it. :)

Keep in mind that if you're clearly within the Sacramento market, CBS-HD is the only one you'll be eligible for via DirecTV, since KOVR is owned by CBS. It's very unlikely you'd get a waiver from any of the others, since none of them are network-owned.

dad- What Inundated and I were trying to say is that CBS/HD/DNS in Sacramento should require no waivers. It should be accomplished with a phone call to a CSR and a request to be transferred to the HD Eligibility Desk. It could be on by the end of the phone call. Nearly hassle free.

Exactly. The rules are clear, and the station is not standing in the way (witness Bob Hess' postings here!). And I don't believe the guy in Modesto would even have problems with the Fresno market CBS affiliate...it's probably not pushing grade B that far north.

BTW, for those wondering why I'm in this thread - I used to work in the market, about 3 1/2 years ago.

I'm also wondering about Letterman. I tuned in last Friday night at 11p and Letterman was not even on! The news was on 13.1???


I didn't watch KOVR that night, but I know they carried the 49er game and if that ran long, it may have pushed the 10:00 news back so it ended after 11.

Sorry if this is a *little* off topic, but this is the only Sacramento thread I could find.

Can anyone recommend a good ISF certified technition to calibrate my Sony XBR960? Just got the set, and DirecTV HD with OTA locals...want it to look its best. The ISF website lists the following certified dealers/techs in Sac, but I'm wondering if any of you have experience with any of them doing in-home calibrations:

Audio FX
Paradyme
Quantum Systems Integration
Sullivan Security/Communications

Thanks...

I think the guy at Audio FX is great but Paradyme should be equally up to the task.

CBS-HD is the only one you'll be eligible for via DirecTV, since KOVR is owned by CBS. It's very unlikely you'd get a waiver from any of the others, since none of them are network-owned.

But the first response is good. It indicates they are not rejecting out of hand, but are case by casing the requests. O & O's require no waiver, despite D*'s front line CSR statements. And a waiver in hand creates its own eligibility, no matter where you are, or what signals you can receive.

Way to go BOB! Letterman, early, and in HD. How much longer until the early airings for the rest of the shows go HD too?
Lee

Thanks Bob, I realize you put forth some extra effort to get Letterman on in HD tonight and it is appreciated.

Way to go BOB! Letterman, early, and in HD. How much longer until the early airings for the rest of the shows go HD too?
Lee

I third the congrats Bob, and in 5.1 also. Looks great! :)

Edit: While my stereo shows 5.1, I am not getting much from my rear channels, so the show may not be mixed for 5.1.

Way to go BOB! Letterman, early, and in HD. How much longer until the early airings for the rest of the shows go HD too?
Lee

Ditto here! For some strange reason I'm up waaaay too late, but glad to see see Dave in HD. i much prefer watching Dave to Leno...

Although it's already been said, let me jump on the pile: THANKS BOB! The efforts of you and your staff are appreciated!

WOW! Love seeing Letterman in HD... Thanks from me too Bob! ;)

dad- What Inundated and I were trying to say is that CBS/HD/DNS in Sacramento should require no waivers. It should be accomplished with a phone call to a CSR and a request to be transferred to the HD Eligibility Desk. It could be on by the end of the phone call. Nearly hassle free.

Thanks for the moral support. I will try this tomorrow (Tuesday) and let you know the results. I've been a D* customer for nine years, and the frustration they have laid upon me in that time has worn me down. How nice it was when I first joined, experienced a great picture, and was able to get several out-of-market stations. Now THAT was satellite excitement. Today, D* has degenerated into just another cable company IMHO.

I just got back from vacation and I can't pick up ABC/CBS/NBC with my MyHD card. I did not notice any problems with my DST-3000 last night. Is anyone else having this problem today?

John

Just got my D* HD DVR with an off-air antenna...having nothing but problems.

1) I can't get 3, 10, or 13. I get 6, and everything past 13, up to 58. The installer said he just couldn't get it. What's strange is, the first day it was installed, I got 3 and 40, but nothing else. The installer said that putting the antenna up higher (on a pole or something) will probably help, but they don't do that.

2) The D* installer (Ironwood Communications) combined the off-air line with one of my sat lines using a diplexer, then split them again at the back of my HD DVR using another diplexer. So, I have a diplexer splitting a single cable, with one line going to the ANT-IN and the other going to SAT-1 IN. Problem is, the first tuner (SAT-1) now looks HORRIBLE on all channels. I can see scan lines, and it's very blurry. If I put the other tuner (SAT-2) on the same channel, it's clear as a bell. If I remove the diplexers altoghether (so I don't have OTA), then SAT-1 looks perfect again. I asked the installer to run the OTA cable all the way to the living room, so that each input has it's own cable (SAT-1, SAT-2, and ANT), but he said it wouldn't make a difference. :mad:

Huh? It's OBVIOUSLY a problem with combining the OTA signal and the satellite signal on one line, then splitting it again at the other end. If I remove the split, it works great. The installer refused.

My question is, does anyone else have a diplexed setup, and does one of your tuners look worse than the other?

Also, who locally will install the OTA antenna up higher for me so I can get all my locals? (The installer said a house across the street is taller, so is blocking...)

Just got my D* HD DVR with an off-air antenna...having nothing but problems.

1) I can't get 3, 10, or 13. I get 6, and everything past 13, up to 58. The installer said he just couldn't get it. What's strange is, the first day it was installed, I got 3 and 40, but nothing else. The installer said that putting the antenna up higher (on a pole or something) will probably help, but they don't do that.

2) The D* installer (Ironwood Communications) combined the off-air line with one of my sat lines using a diplexer, then split them again at the back of my HD DVR using another diplexer. So, I have a diplexer splitting a single cable, with one line going to the ANT-IN and the other going to SAT-1 IN. Problem is, the first tuner (SAT-1) now looks HORRIBLE on all channels. I can see scan lines, and it's very blurry. If I put the other tuner (SAT-2) on the same channel, it's clear as a bell. If I remove the diplexers altoghether (so I don't have OTA), then SAT-1 looks perfect again. I asked the installer to run the OTA cable all the way to the living room, so that each input has it's own cable (SAT-1, SAT-2, and ANT), but he said it wouldn't make a difference. :mad:

Huh? It's OBVIOUSLY a problem with combining the OTA signal and the satellite signal on one line, then splitting it again at the other end. If I remove the split, it works great. The installer refused.

My question is, does anyone else have a diplexed setup, and does one of your tuners look worse than the other?

Also, who locally will install the OTA antenna up higher for me so I can get all my locals? (The installer said a house across the street is taller, so is blocking...)

Have you tried removing the diplexer and running one of your cables directly from the OTA antenna to the OTA input? That might make a difference and not require a change to the antenna position.

What is the OTA signal strength on 3-13? You'll have to go into the setup menu and check by frequency and they are not the same as the channel number as they are redirected. For instance 3-1 is on frequency 35. Go to antennaweb.org and search by zip code for a list of digital channels and their frequencies.

Also, while doing this search, how far are you from the towers? While houses and hills come into play it could be a distance problem as well but I doubt it since the channels you are getting are all located in the same general direction and distance.

Are you in a single story with two story homes all around you? That could be why your installer recommended the pole mount.

I live ~45 miles from the towers and hooked up a Radio Shack UHF only antenna in my attic and it pulls in all the locals (3-58) with very strong signals. I believe I get >80 on all of them. I do have a two story but there is a rather large hill right where I point my antenna but it does not get in the way (Thank God).

As far as the diplexer goes, it sounds like you know they are a problem and you had a lazy installer. I would do a little poking around with the OTA antenna connected directly to the HD DVR to see if you have an antenna problem and then call DTV and tell them you are not happy with the install and you want it fixed. It's a very competitive industry so they will keep sending out techs until it is right.

Since the towers are all in the same area and you get some stations and not others it could very well be that diplexer setup messing up the signal from certain stations but not others. Especially if the DTV signal is degraded as much as you say. I'm of the opinion a straight shot from the antenna and multi-switch should always be used.

I can verify that 3 & 13 seem to be off the air - 11:00am 8/30. The others seem fine. If you're trying to setup an antenna, you're going to have trouble with KOVR and KCRA right now - sorry.

Tracey

I can verify that 3 & 13 seem to be off the air - 11:00am 8/30. The others seem fine. If you're trying to setup an antenna, you're going to have trouble with KOVR and KCRA right now - sorry.

Tracey

Hmmm...that may be my problem, then. I get 6, 31, 40, and 58...but not 3, 10, or 13.

I'll wait a while, then try again, and also check the signal strength like the previous poster recommended.

I'd love to tell D* to have a tech come back out and run a cable directly from the OTA to my box, but I just can't deal with their installation company any more. It's been 8 days (and 23 hours) so far for this install. You can read the horror story here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6108803&&#post6108803

So, I'm done with Ironwood Communications (the D* installers for this area.)

Check again, Gecko - 3 is still missing, but I'm getting 10 and 13 just fine now (11:45). If you can't get them, you might have something else going on.

Tracey

Check again, Gecko - 3 is still missing, but I'm getting 10 and 13 just fine now (11:45). If you can't get them, you might have something else going on.

Tracey

Just checked: 13 is coming in crystal clear! 10, though, keeps breaking up and freezing. I wonder if a signal booster/line amplifier would help?

Also, since I'm new to this OTA stuff: how often do these channels go out? If I'm setting up season passes on the Tivo, should I just use the regular Satellite locals instead? I don't want to risk missing the season premier of Lost, for example, because the OTA HD channel is out...

Just checked: 13 is coming in crystal clear! 10, though, keeps breaking up and freezing. I wonder if a signal booster/line amplifier would help?

Also, since I'm new to this OTA stuff: how often do these channels go out? If I'm setting up season passes on the Tivo, should I just use the regular Satellite locals instead? I don't want to risk missing the season premier of Lost, for example, because the OTA HD channel is out...


If you do not want to miss the program, then record them both in SD and HD. The OTA signals sometimes have issues and once in a while you will have video but no audio. Most of the time it will record fine but having the SD safety net is a good idea for a while. It defeats the two tuner for recording two different programs at the same time but I'd rather get CSI in HD than just fall back on SD as standard because I'm worried about missing it.

What's the OTA signal on 10? Frequency 61. If your signal is jumping around, a amp/booster will not help. It might help if all of your channels are low though.

If you do not want to miss the program, then record them both in SD and HD. The OTA signals sometimes have issues and once in a while you will have video but no audio. Most of the time it will record fine but having the SD safety net is a good idea for a while. It defeats the two tuner for recording two different programs at the same time but I'd rather get CSI in HD than just fall back on SD as standard because I'm worried about missing it.

What's the OTA signal on 10? Frequency 61. If your signal is jumping around, a amp/booster will not help. It might help if all of your channels are low though.

I'm in the high 80's to low 90's on everything except 10 (Freq. 61). That one jumps around...from 80/90 to 0, then back to 80/90. It goes in and out. All other channels are fine...

I moved my SD Tivo into the bedroom, so I guess I'll use that as a backup to record SD just in case HD gets flaky.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I find that the signals don't go out very often - you can search back through this thread, 'cos if they signal was out, we posted about it here!

I only use the HD stations, and don't back up to SD, and I can't really remember any problems at all, nothing major sticks out, although I probably did miss the odd thing - that's what torrents are for! ECR72 is right about audio problems, though, especially on CBS - but that was the network's fault, not local error.

BTW - KCRA 3 is back now, and I don't have break-ups on KXTL 10 (I'm getting a nice solid 91/92 in Tracy with a diplexed SilverSensor feeding an HD-TiVo).

Wecome to the bleeding edge,
Tracey

my sob story continues...as you may remember, i received the postcard from d* stating my waiver requests were denied. so i decided to hit up the local stations directly.

i emailed the kxtl engineer and asked for a waiver. he asked for my physical address, then checked his computer system. he said, due to my location, i should be getting a strong signal. so, unfortunately, he wasn't able to grant my request. :(

however, he was very responsive to my emails, knowledgeable in the technology, and just an overall nice guy. i certainly hold him no ill-will. i'm just bummed he couldn't pull it off!

next on the list .... kcra! :D

BTW - KCRA 3 is back now, and I don't have break-ups on KXTL 10 (I'm getting a nice solid 91/92 in Tracy with a diplexed SilverSensor feeding an HD-TiVo).


KCRA is now on...and I picked up a $5 line amplifier from Radio Shack, and I'm now getting high 80's consistently on KXTL 10, with the occasional spike to 90/91. No more drops (for now, at least.)

Things are looking up!

Congratulations!!!!

my sob story continues...as you may remember, i received the postcard from d* stating my waiver requests were denied. so i decided to hit up the local stations directly.

i emailed the kxtl engineer and asked for a waiver. he asked for my physical address, then checked his computer system. he said, due to my location, i should be getting a strong signal. so, unfortunately, he wasn't able to grant my request. :(

however, he was very responsive to my emails, knowledgeable in the technology, and just an overall nice guy. i certainly hold him no ill-will. i'm just bummed he couldn't pull it off!

next on the list .... kcra! :D

I can save you a lot of time and grief, you are not going to get a waiver from any station but KOVR.

Ya never know, maybe there is a disgruntled Engineer quitting tomorrow, it's happened.

Ya never know, maybe there is a disgruntled Engineer quitting tomorrow, it's happened.

The engineers don't make the decision, that policy comes from much higher up the food chain. The engineers just implement that policy.

Hi everyone,

I just read that D* is expanding their service starting with ESPN 2 HD next month and local HD broadcasts in the top 12 US markets by the end of the year. San Francisco is included in the top 12 but I didn't see a listing for Sac. Do you know where we stand? Are we included in the SF numbers? Somehow I doubt it but I'd still like to know. Also, if we're not in the top 12, has anyone heard anything about when they'll expand beyond that into the top 20/30/50 etc...?
Thanks.

Hi everyone,

I just read that D* is expanding their service starting with ESPN 2 HD next month and local HD broadcasts in the top 12 US markets by the end of the year. San Francisco is included in the top 12 but I didn't see a listing for Sac. Do you know where we stand? Are we included in the SF numbers? Somehow I doubt it but I'd still like to know. Also, if we're not in the top 12, has anyone heard anything about when they'll expand beyond that into the top 20/30/50 etc...?
Thanks.

Sacramento is market 19.

I believe Sac is something like #15 or #18. Something like that.

I don't know that it has been stated on when they will expand the changeover for the rest of the markets, I just know I am waiting until that happens before I go out and get an HD-DVR, otherwise they will just have to replace it anyway.

No Deal!
I just talked (very nicely) to 3 different people at D* and could not get CBS-W turned on. This is what I meant previously when I said I just don't want to try dealing with thse people. The final supervisor said he was looking right at my waiver denials, which very cleary included KOVR Sacramento. He said "owned and operated" really meant nothing. "Waivers are still required per the FCC." Unbelievable. I opined that these waiver requests are computer generated at one end, then computer denied at the other end. No human being sees them. He said he doubted that, but they had no choice but to go by the computer-generated denials. I told him I understood KOVR was not denying HD waiver requests. He replied, "not according to the list in my hands." It was obvious this was going nowhere.
What bugs me the most is that I broke a resolution I made several years ago that I would never try to carry on an intelligent conversation with D* personnel again.

I believe Sac is something like #15 or #18. Something like that.

I don't know that it has been stated on when they will expand the changeover for the rest of the markets, I just know I am waiting until that happens before I go out and get an HD-DVR, otherwise they will just have to replace it anyway.

You can't get OTA in Manteca?? You could get 18 months to 2 years out of a $200 HD-TiVo, and get a swap out when the locals are MPEG-4. And of course, the HD-TiVo won't stop working when we get the locals - the only thing that will make it obsolete is a quantity of national HD channels that are MPEG-4 only, and I don't see that happening soon - I thought the plan was MPEG-4 for locals, first. And, of course, OTA will certainly have at least the PQ of satellite, if not better.

I sound like a bit of a D* shill, and I'm truly not, but to deny the pleasure of time-shifting to an undetermined date, when a very cheap solution exists, makes you a stronger soul than I am!!!!

Tracey

And, of course, OTA will certainly have at least the PQ of satellite, if not better.

In fact, the satellite feed can never be better than OTA, since DirecTV (according to an inside source) will be pulling all the stations from the OTA transmission. So their source is the same as what you'd get with your own antenna. And who knows how they will manipulate it before the end user receives it -- we know for sure that they'll be converting it to MPEG-4, and that's not going to make it look any better.

I'll take OTA, anyday!

$200 for an HD-DVR? Please send me more info on this. I thought they were still in the $750 range.

I do have OTA for all the locals, as you do, so no problem there. My wife will be happier if I get a new receiver and the DVR portion would make me happy. The current receiver changes channels so slowly that it hurts. Especially when people are over and I am showing it off.

Sacramento is market 19.

Is there a website or a forum thread that shows these numbers?

Is there a website or a forum thread that shows these numbers?

Try this. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=574540

What bugs me the most is that I broke a resolution I made several years ago that I would never try to carry on an intelligent conversation with D* personnel again.

:(

Did you talk to anyone specifically with the HD Eligibility Department? Did you ask for it?

Maybe Bob Hess can get something rolling for you.

$200 for an HD-DVR? Please send me more info on this. I thought they were still in the $750 range.
Dude, you have got to get out more, or at least to another forum once in a while.

The engineers don't make the decision, that policy comes from much higher up the food chain. The engineers just implement that policy.

Wait a sec... if a station did not have a "policy" but decided waiver requests on a case by case basis, would it not be the engineer?

[QUOTE=Inundated]:(

Did you talk to anyone specifically with the HD Eligibility Department? Did you ask for it?

Yes, I sure did. It was a supervisor in that department that told me "owned and operated" means nothing, a waiver is still required, and that he was holding a copy of KOVR's denial in his hands. He did give me a PO box address I could use if I obtain a waiver personally.

I haven't tried today, but I have been having the same captioning problems on ABC with both my Samsung SIR-TS160 and High Def Tivo for what seems like a couple of weeks. I think the problem is on their end. By blaming our equipment, I think they are just plain being lazy.

I tried yesterday on one of my STB's and CC came out ok. Maybe they fixed what was causing the problem. The show was not in HD but before I checked I had issues with both SD and HD content on ABC. I will check tonight on an HD show

Is there a website or a forum thread that shows these numbers?

More food for thought

http://www.nielsenmedia.com/DMAs.html

Wait a sec... if a station did not have a "policy" but decided waiver requests on a case by case basis, would it not be the engineer?

The engineer makes the decision based on the policy formulated at some higher management level. It usually depends on where the person lives. If you live in an area where you can put up an antenna and get the signal, you are probably not going to get a waiver.