jmorgis,

I would be upset as well. As I stated - if they fix it and turn it around quickly. Quickly to me is a day or two shipping, a day or two to fix, and a day or two back.

With your experience with the HD100 I would not have purchased another Sony product. As a matter of fact, I personally never buy Sony Products (on the consumer electronics side mostly because of their stupid memory sticks).

Originally posted by jmorgis
thepicman, who were you dealing with at Sony?

How long is the turnaround? Why should the customer have to be inconvenienced, when Sony/DTV destroyed the box

John

I was dealing with the woman who was unfortunate enough to answer the D* phone call. I know her name and ID number, but she is merely another CSR. There would be no reason to contact her specifically. She indicated that the turnaround could be anywhere from 1 week to 1 month depending on how busy they are. She also said that the HD300 was NOT an unit which could be "fast-turnaround" meaning sony sends you a replacemnt immediately and you send them the broken box.

I think I will wait a few days to see how everthing flushes before I send it away.

TPM

I wonder if their is any issue related to what box people have. I know in the past even though these boxes are supposed to be identical their have been irregularities (like the Sony having the issue with SD output losing color). How many people with problems have Sony's vs. the other brands (like my LG).

Maybe we should have a poll saying Sony-Successfull, Sony-Unsuccessfull, Hughes-Successfull . . . etc.

Sony/DTV should take ownership of this problem, I did not ask for this, they intentionally (and secretly) sent an update which damaged my unit.

They are liable, for full cost of service. (At a reasonable turnaround)

Like I said, the last time I sent my Sony HD unit to Bristol PA, it took 10 weeks, and they did not even fix it. They eventually sent me a replacement (which had the same issue). I give up trying to work with Sony, and had to drop more money to update to a newer unit.

Heads will roll...

John

Originally posted by Chris Loker
(like the Sony having the issue with SD output losing color)
My Sony HD300 took the 2.0 upgrade successfully and is no longer exhibiting the "lost color on composite/S-video output" problem. BUT, I hooked it up, for the first time in months, to receive the update Tuesday night (Wednesday AM), left it tuned to channel 201, and it stayed in color all evening ... before the upgrade.

So what was different? Well, it is possible that DirecTV is no longer sending random HDCP flags on channel 201. Also, my latest hook-up was indirect, through a standalone TiVo, and it is possible that the TiVo can "see" the color (chroma) even when it becomes too weak for an ordinary garden-variety TV set (more sensitive circuitry, perhaps). Once reason I suspect that is because channel 201, when played back from the HD300 through the TiVo, seems to have a higher-than-usual ratio of luminance to chroma (i.e., the "black-and-white" component seems stronger than usual, although the color seems "okay").

It may be that the two HD300s that I tested, both of which exhibited this problem, were simply slightly misadjusted at the factory in their NTSC analog output circuits. Could be there are some "alignment pots" somewhere inside or could be just random variation in the actual values of some discrete components (resistors and capacitors).

jmorgis,

A little over the top on the "I didn't ask for this update" and they did it "secretely". You posted in the last couple weeks that you were waiting for the update to happen.

So, has anybody that got the upgrade the first night noticed any "channel creep" into the favorites/custom guides yet? I went through mine this morning after the update and cleared out all the unwanted channels so I'll find out soon enough. But I'm impatient to know :D. Is that damn Gem Shopping channel still making unwanted appearances or did they make it right? TIA.

ron

Now that I have firmware v1.5E-26 on my HD300 this is how we spend our evenings.


http://www.pic-man.com/thumbs/bigscreen.gif

Just checked mine and no shopping channels/extra channels in my guide. I just setup my custom guide yesterday evening though.

Last October when I phoned Sony CS questioning why my HD300’s DVI output would not work with my Pio Plasma I was told in no uncertain terms it was Pio’s fault and that the HD300 was 100% HDMI compliant. Of course Pio CS said it was a documented problem with the Sony. I gave up, bought a Sammy which the DVI output works fine, put the Sony in the bedroom and used component out.
Since October 2003 I have learned to live with the long list of HD300 quirks and chalked it up to poor product design, implementation, support and my bad luck.
Fast forward 7 months . I wake up to find my quirky HD300 frozen in time, 40% short of a complete software download. that was supposed to transform my Sony S*** box into a lean mean HD machine. What a load of rubbish.
If you are listening Sony, as I type this on my Vaio laptop, unless Sony makes my HD300 whole at no cost quickly, I promise I will never buy another piece of Sony equipment as long as I live.

Topics merged.

The HD300 definitely isn't HDCP compliant, at least WRT to intermediate devices (i.e. non-display devices.) I'm considering whether to return it now because of that.

Originally posted by Dean Roddey
The HD300 definitely isn't HDCP compliant, at least WRT to intermediate devices (i.e. non-display devices.) I'm considering whether to return it now because of that.
If your intermediate device is a Faroudja scaler, the problem is probably in the Faroudja, not the HD300. It is "well-known" (and has been posted here before) that Faroudja scalers do not support HDCP. Not do they "pass it through"

Also, with respect to serial control of the HD300, there were credible reports some months ago that Sony had committed to a more complete implementation of serial control in the firmware update. I have not yet personally tested this, but it would seem likely that the 2.00 firmware supports many more commands and key codes than the original implementation. In particular, it should now be possible to do "info" and "jump" via serial control.

Isn't *NON HDCP compliant a "good" thing for a signal sending device ? I thought any display device that is HDCP compliant can fully accept either a compliant or non compliant DVI source signal.

I.E.: NEC1000 projector that is HDCP compliant accepts NON-compliant (no HDCP) Bravo D1 DVD player via DVI.....Hughes STB with HDCP DVI also passes the signal.

If your intermediate device is a Faroudja scaler, the problem is probably in the Faroudja, not the HD300. It is "well-known" (and has been posted here before) that Faroudja scalers do not support HDCP. Not do they "pass it through"


It won't work with the iScan HD or the HD Leeza, both of which are HDCP capable scalers. Dale from DVDO verified that it doesn't work. It will work with displays, which are not of the same category of device. But for any intermediary device, the source asks it what it is and if it's something that can pass on the signal, the source will encrypt that content that asks to be encrypted.

But the HD300 (and the underlying LG design) just does it all the time, regardless of whether the content askes to be encrypted or not. So effectively it's worthless to someone who wants a fully digital path.

Originally posted by JimmyR
Isn't *NON HDCP compliant a "good" thing for a signal sending device?
In this case, "non HDCP compliant" is not the same thing as "HDCP/non-HDCP compliant". In "non HDCP compliant", the "non" modifies "HDCP compliant", not just "HDCP". In other words, by "non HDCP compliant" it is meant that the device is not capable of negotiating an encrypted session with HDCP-protected (i.e. encrypted) material.

I have read this forum for months and have been the silent reader, learning about anything i could about my hd300. I only had 1 HD OTA channel that gave me regular drop outs and simply changing the channel and coming back solved the problem. I have a GWIII and the combo is quite stunning. Well i received the Upgrade. I left my HD300 on a local digital channel during the upgrade, when i awoke and turned on my TV, it said "creating channel List". It would create the channel list and then reboot and then do the same thing all over again! i was caught in a loop. The only thing i could do was hit 'exit' button during this process and i could at least get local channel. Any time i would try and access DTV channel, it would reset... I called DirecTV and they told me to wait 1 more day to see if it receives the download. I told them in that state it is in, it could not actually receive the download because it did not even recognize any DTV channels at all. So i called SONY and explained the problem, they said somebody would call me in the next 1-2 business days with some solutions. So i reluctantly I agreed to wait. Not 5 Min's later, a nice lady called me and said that federal express would be at my door tomorrow to pick up the receiver and repair it and then over night it back to my at no charge. I did not have ask for this, they simply said they would do it. I do have to pack it up myself and get it ready but at least Sony is being very nice about the entire situation. DTV could not tell me Sony was doing this, their technical support is useless and have no clue. So at least i have an solution to this and SONY did come through. I am impressed with Sony for going this mile. I have read in these forums of the terrible Sony service, but if they do good, you have to give them credit. I suggest every calls Sony and ask for this option... Good luck to all

Originally posted by Dean Roddey
But the HD300 (and the underlying LG design) just does it all the time, regardless of whether the content askes to be encrypted or not. So effectively it's worthless to someone who wants a fully digital path.
I understand your objection now, and it is valid. You would like for the HD300 to pass non-HDCP-protected material on to the scaler "in the clear", so that you can capture it as a non-encrypted digital data stream. Which is certainly your right, and should be supported.

If I understand your post correctly, the HD300 will pass non-HDCP-protected material "in the clear" to a display (and thus will work with older, non HDCP compliant displays except possibly when the program actually is "copy protected", which is rare as yet). But when connected to an intermediate device such as a scaler, the HD300 apparently "takes no chances" and encrypts all program material. Which is bad. And most likely a violation (or "incorrect or over-aggressive implementation") of the HDCP standard.

Thank you William. I read your explanation twice and going back for three more reading's.:)
Seriously, I've got it...

Originally posted by Ray H
I may be wrong, but I believe that delay was due to the receiver's NVRAM being flushed of the old firmware prior to taking the update. Rather an Achilles Heel situation - a power failure before completion of the update would have been catastrophic. Too bad there wasn't an onscreen explanation of whatever was going on, since as a group, we are obsessive worry-warts.

Getting the same thing, "DOWNLOAD" on the receiver and the screen says unplug for 30 seconds....

Directv says wait ANOTHER 24 hours, they are addressing the problem... Yeah right... This is day 2... Is my box down for the count? Its only 2 months old.

I will post what happens tomorrow.

What I have not heard here, a consensus that the Audio Drop Outs are gone.

I've not had a single dropout since the 2.0 download!

I have not had a single audio drop tonight! But I still get the occasional picture freezes.

R11, I think the channel creep is still there. I noticed the "Here" PPV channel back in my custom guide.

Sigh.

It doesn't bother me that much since I use the DTivo for my SD watching and just use the HTL-HD for HD stuff.

Still, it should have been fixed.

But when connected to an intermediate device such as a scaler, the HD300 apparently "takes no chances" and encrypts all program material. Which is bad. And most likely a violation (or "incorrect or over-aggressive implementation") of the HDCP standard.


Yep, it is not compliant with HDCP which says that if the source content doesn't indicate protection, it should be passed. I don't want to capture it or anything, I just want to get it to my display but I can't even do that at least via DVI, since it makes the scaler turn off the signal to the analog outputs.

AFAIK, nothing on DirecTV enables the protection mechanisms at this time. I'm perfectly content to miss out on anything that does (until I move forward to a digital display at some point), but in the meantime I should be able to get it over to the scaler via DVI (so it's all digital and I get maximum scaler quality), and have the scaler spit it out via RGB to my projector.

Originally posted by Dean Roddey
... since it makes the scaler turn off the signal to the analog outputs.
THAT would appear to be an incorrect implementation of HDCP in your scaler. As I understand it, copy-protected material (when and if it occurs) is not supposed to turn off the analog outputs of your STB (and in fact, it is known that it doesn't, as DirecTV was known to have been testing the HDCP flag on barker channel 201 quite frequently, and it did not turn off the analog outputs on my HD300 or my 3200A).

Your scaler should be no more beholden to turn off its analog outputs than the STBs are.

And, according to last Fall's FCC decision, it should not be allowed to "down-res" the analog outputs either. (DirecTV and the MPAA are known to be protesting that aspect of the FCC decision, but I doubt if they will get anywhere.)

Your scaler should be no more beholden to turn off its analog outputs than the STBs are.


Actually the HDCP license requires that any intermediary device turn off it's analog outputs if the incoming DVI signal is encrypted. If the incoming signal isn't encyrpted, then it should be free to pass that signal out the analog outputs, and that should be the case for DirecTV where I don't think any of the content is currently asking for protection.

So it doesn't have to turn off the source device's analog outputs, but downstream boxes have to do it. This kind of makes sense because the source device is the one that is supposed to enforce protections on the content it plays, and if it choses not to it can just not do it. But for any downstream box, if it weren't required to oblige, could just undo any protections that the source box tried to impose.

So anyway, there are extra restrictions on intermediary devices that are not on source or target devices, and the HD300 is incorrectly reacting to a such an intermediary device being in the chain and just locking down it's signal even if the source content isn't indicating it wants protections.

I'm currently using the RGB output on the HD300 , which as is normal for a source device, isn't affected, and pushing that into my scaler. But I want to use the DVI to get the data to the scaler, to avoid and extra D-A-D conversion that reduces image quality, and then have the scaler push it out it's RGB to my projector.

Originally posted by nytevizion
Getting the same thing, "DOWNLOAD" on the receiver and the screen says unplug for 30 seconds....

Directv says wait ANOTHER 24 hours, they are addressing the problem... Yeah right... This is day 2... Is my box down for the count? Its only 2 months old.

I will post what happens tomorrow.

Ok, woke up this morning and found my receiver in working order. Even with the stormy weather we have been having all week and all last night. Thank god. The 2.0 update was installed and Im happy again. So to all the people who thought their receiver was trashed, that is incorrect. This is a good forum, thanks to the people who started it...Allthough you all had me worried... Have a great weekend everyone.

Originally posted by nytevizion
The 2.0 update was installed and Im happy again. So to all the people who thought their receiver was trashed, that is incorrect.

While I am happy that somehow yours was magically fixed, mine is still spouting DOWNLOAD and is only displaying the request for a 30sec unplug. As you will find out, if you stick with this forum, one person's fix is seldom everyone's fix. Glad yours worked though.

Yep no change to mine either glad to here nytevizion is whole again.
So to all the people who thought their receiver was trashed, that is incorrect.
Not sure that statement is necessarily correct since mine has had two nights to fix itself and it still only does three things.
1) Display "DOWNLOAD" on the VF display.
2) Display the same unplug / call Sony message on the TV.
3) P*** me off.

My Hughes HTL-HD 2.0 update happened on 5-12-04 at 4 a.m. when my receiver was turned off. Since the update, I've had no audio dropouts, system reboots, or guide issues, but I am having picture blinks (screen goes black for a moment, and then the picture returns). I haven't noticed it on OTA content but it is very constant on D* channels, including HD channels!

Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks.

Originally posted by Phod
R11, I think the channel creep is still there. I noticed the "Here" PPV channel back in my custom guide.

Sigh.

It doesn't bother me that much since I use the DTivo for my SD watching and just use the HTL-HD for HD stuff.

Still, it should have been fixed.

The receiver is operating as it should. They are supposed to put "new" channels in all the guides. D* a "adding" this back in so its up to D* to fix this.

As of this morning I still have the "download screen of death"... Display of my HD300 shows DOWNLOAD, screen says unplug for 30 seconds. D* and Sony can't decide who to blame, but want me to give it another 24 hours.

They claim an upper level CSR will call me back w/in 24hrs. Why is it that we know more than these boneheads?

If it's not working by Saturday AM it's going back.

Anybody else still dead as of today, Friday AM, 8:00 Pacific time?

All right Guys,
Figured I chime in with my experience. Left my box on channel 78 2 nights ago and got the download on the 13th at 4:14 AM. Even though the box was on and on CH 78 the download went well.
The nice improvements that are obvious are what everyone else has seen. The sound not dropping when entering the guide and the custom guide or favorites staying when re-entering the guide.
I also think that the SD picture quality is slightly better. Blade 2 was on last night and I before the update it did look a little blurred, almost out of focus. I swear it looked better last night but it could be my eyes just going in and out of focus (I am a software engineer so I look at computer screens 10-12 hours a day).
Unfortunately, I still noticed a sound drop in my brief viewing last night. It occurred on Matrix Reloaded on HBO HD. I don't know if this was my box or directv but the sound definitely dropped for a second.
Overall, I am happy with the firmware upgrade. It did address some problems and if it even makes the audio drops less common then it is a win in my book...

-Evangelo2

herrfish1,

someone mentioned that all the box brands do this picture blink. a couple of us also get this green band coming up from the bottom some times and this too was mentioned to be common across the brands. i guess this is good to hear that either the problem is with the implementation in all units or it is DirecTV's issue.

it is annoying when it does this in the middle of a great play for sunday night baseball on espn.

Originally posted by showard594
hey rondi,

good to hear i am not the only one with the video drop and the green color coming up from the bottom. <snip>

i really noticed on espn's sunday night baseball during fast video transitions. may not be related but it is annoying. the 2.0 firmware definately did not fix this but i can live with it .



I also have noticed that this seems more prevalant with the new 2.0 firmware. During the Sharks vs Flames game on ESPN-HD last night, I must have seen at least a dozen video drops. Very annoying!

Also, on some HD movies, the bottom of the picture is a little "fuzzy", like "unfocused". I never saw this before the upgrade.

I got a call back from Sony, with NEW instructions for the update issue, they are supposed to email me and I will post them here.

They want the receiver to be unplugged from power AND the dish for 1 hour, then hooked back up and not powered on, then they say I'll get my update 1:15 AM Saturday morning. The CSR says the download screen of death is what they want to see and that the receiver will wake up and magically get the update.

Yes, I have little faith this will happen.

Originally posted by pmkalby


Anybody else still dead as of today, Friday AM, 8:00 Pacific time?

Dead as a doornail.

Originally posted by pmkalby
then hooked back up and not powered on, then they say I'll get my update 1:15 AM Saturday morning.

not powered on? Are they missing the fact that the power button is not doing anything when the unit is locked up?

pmkalby,
Please do post your e-mail from Sony. I would like to have that by my side before I launch my verbal assault on the unlucky CSR that picks up my call.

BTW: did I understand correctly they told you to only attach the SAT IN and NOT the power cord? (Scratching Head)
Thanks
-BB

They DID say NOT powered on, and evidently, yes, they have no idea that when locked up the power button has no effect one way or another.

bbm3-- they said plugged in, but not turned on. see above.


Anyhow, apparently Sony can't send the document out via email (or make a reliable DSS HDTV receiver) so they just called me back. Here is what they want me to do.

1) Unplug the receiver from power
2) Unplug the dish feed from the receiver
3) Let sit for at least 1 hour
4) Plug power back in
5) Hook dish back up to receiver
6) DO NOT TOUCH IT
7) DO NOT TOUCH IT
8) pray for the firmware update fairy to make a visit at 1:15 AM

9) If it doesn't magically work when I wake up Saturday morning, call for instructions on how to return it. If I have factory box, ship it in that, if not, get somebody to pack it. Keep receipts and they will reimburse expenses for packing/ shipping.

Sony assures me that if I must return my unit they will expedite the firmware update and have a 48 hour turn around. I'll believe that when I see it, but if I have to ship it back, I will ship it via overnight, and believe me when I say that I will not let the person who guaranteed me they'd pay for shipping rest until they do.

**edit: I informed the helpful person that told me to do the above that of the SIX other D* and Sony CSRs I spoke with, not one of them ever said anything about disconnecting the dish feed from the receiver. They all said unplug the power, and said nothing of the dish feed.

Apparently their theory is the 18 VDC from the DSS HDTV LNB is keeping the unit from resetting. They told me this because I'm a VIP, and didn't say I had to keep it on the QT or the DL. :D

Ya know, I hope I didn't get anybody too excited when I said NEW instructions. Unplugging the dish was new to me, but the rest of it is the same old thing.

Originally posted by sonofjay
The receiver is operating as it should. They are supposed to put "new" channels in all the guides. D* a "adding" this back in so its up to D* to fix this.

To avoid unwanted channels being added, use the surf channels as your guide. It limits you to 50 favorite channels but new channels won't be added. Now that your last guide used is remembered you'll only have to hit the guide button once to bring it up.

On another note, I dont use the Surf button much as it doesn't show what's on each channel, you just see the channel logo. On the old DST-1000's, there was a similar logo surf favorites but when you moved to each channel logo, a text bar at the top displayed what was currently playing on the channel...much more useful.

You know I can't wait to have a working receiever again so I can go re-program the guide button on my Pronto to just send the guide command, not guide, guide, down, enter to get to the custom guide.

Originally posted by bbm3
Yep no change to mine either glad to here nytevizion is whole again.

Not sure that statement is necessarily correct since mine has had two nights to fix itself and it still only does three things.
1) Display "DOWNLOAD" on the VF display.
2) Display the same unplug / call Sony message on the TV.
3) P*** me off.

Sorry guys, I hope I am not wrong in saying the receivers aren't jazzed.

However I did leave my receiver plugged into a phone line all night, and it never has been plugged in before..I know people have said that the phone line conncetion does not matter, but does anyone know for a fact that it does not some how verify with directv after the update? Just a thought....

also, I did call them quite a few times in this whole process, and the last time I was pretty pissed off, so the woman told me that the engineers who were working on the problem will receive the information about my problem directly...Not that I believe them, but who knows... So I unplugged for 1 minute, replugged it in and left it.

Anyway, just wanted you guys to know exactly what happened... It was out for 2 days.
I live near chicago, and it was cloudy and rainy last night. Im suprised that it actually worked...But maybe that is a factor for you? weather? Signal? I do have an Over the air antenna & Satellite single cable combiner/splitter setup and thought maybe the signal degraded but I guess not.

Originally posted by sonofjay
The receiver is operating as it should. They are supposed to put "new" channels in all the guides. D* a "adding" this back in so its up to D* to fix this.
You are correct. The annoying "channel creep" in DirecTV channels is no fault of the STB, it happens because DirecTV updates their channel lineup via the APG data stream (received via satellite). They are constantly "fiddling" with the PPV channel lineup, so channels get deleted and then later re-introduced in that area.

Occasionally, some of the "regular" channels (usually ones that are fairly new in the DirecTV lineup) get a "delete/add" hit which forces them to come back on in the Custom Guide. WHY they do this is not clear. Perhaps they want to ensure the everybody "knows about" the new channel. Perhaps there are some technical parameters still being "fine tuned". Perhaps it is to ensure that everyone's receiver gets the new lineup (in case it were unplugged or something). Perhaps it is simply a "clerical error" on the part of one of their genius-level support people ...

On the other hand, OTA "channel creep" appears to happen for other reasons. For instance, after the 2.0 download, my two boxes (an HD300 and a 3200A) both preserved their previous Custom Guide subsets of DirecTV channels, but all of the terrestrial non-HDTV channels that I had suppressed magically re-appeared and had to be suppressed again.

Originally posted by nytevizion
it was cloudy and rainy last night. Im suprised that it actually worked...But maybe that is a factor for you? weather? Signal?

No adverse weather to report. Signal is 5x5, cap'n. No other factors.

The fact that you are up and running gives me some small measure of hope, however.

Originally posted by Dean Roddey
Actually the HDCP license requires that any intermediary device turn off it's analog outputs if the incoming DVI signal is encrypted. ... This kind of makes sense because the source device is the one that is supposed to enforce protections on the content it plays, and if it choses not to it can just not do it. But for any downstream box, if it weren't required to oblige, could just undo any protections that the source box tried to impose.
This obligation on intermediary devices makes absolutely no sense to me. If the first box in the chain can be required to enforce certain restrictions (i.e. no copying) and not others (i.e. no down-res or shut-off of the analog outputs) then so can every other box in the chain.

Unless the HDCP designers were worried about the honesty and integrity of the licensees who implement "intermediary devices"! Seriously, if the "final device" in the chain can be relied upon to decrypt the digital data stream but "only for display" (and not for "capture") then so can all the devices in the chain. I do understand that the MPAA originally wanted no high-res analog output of their "high-value material", but they have been backed into a corner on that issue (by the FCC and the CEA and everybody else). They are still fighting a "rear-guard action" (which is why their surrogate, DirecTV, petitioned the FCC to reconsider) but it is generally believed that they have lost their fight to protect analog output (and will settle for strong protection of the digital data stream).

It appears to me that the HDCP license, as currently written, is just way too aggressive in its requirements for intermediate devices. There is simply no possible justification for not allowing your scaler to do what the STB itself can (and does)!

Originally posted by Dean Roddey
I'm currently using the RGB output on the HD300 , which as is normal for a source device, isn't affected, and pushing that into my scaler. But I want to use the DVI to get the data to the scaler, to avoid and extra D-A-D conversion that reduces image quality, and then have the scaler push it out it's RGB to my projector. With my setup the HD300 (and HD200) looks much better via RGB than DVI as I have tested this many times.

Can't say whether it's my projector's inputs (though DVI looks great with my HTPC) or the Sony's output. I do remember seeing a posting a while back that someone else didn't prefer the DVI output. Since both outputs look great on my HDTV it just might be my projector...

It appears to me that the HDCP license, as currently written, is just way too aggressive in its requirements for intermediate devices. There is simply no possible justification for not allowing your scaler to do what the STB itself can (and does)!


As I mentioned above, I think that the purpose is that there can be sources that don't do that (i.e. don't allow any unrestricted access), and if any downstream box was allowed to circumvent it, it wouldn't be possible for the source device to enforce it's protections.

So I think it makes sense, and I don't ding them for doing it that way. The problem here is really totally Sony/LG's by not doing the right thing.

People who have problems with their downloads - I was told they are supposed to have a solution nailed down. If you haven't talked to DirecTV today you probably should.

Originally posted by Dean Roddey
As I mentioned above, I think that the purpose is that there can be sources that don't do that (i.e. don't allow any unrestricted access), and if any downstream box was allowed to circumvent it, it wouldn't be possible for the source device to enforce it's protections.
Just as the broadcast data stream has flags that tell the STB what restrictions to enforce, the STB can tell the next box what those restrictions are. If the STB can be trusted to enforce the protections required by the broadcaster, then the licensed intermediate device should be capable of being trusted as well to enforce exactly the same restrictions as the STB.

In other words, your argument is fallacious because it can be "moved up one level". Paraphrased for the STB, it would read "If the STB was allowed to circumvent HDCP protection (by allowing analog output when authorized), it wouldn't be possible for the broadcaster to enforce its protections".

In fact, this whole issue is really just another case of your (valid) objection to LG's implementation of HDCP for intermediate devices. The LG boxes are encrypting all data streams, including unprotected ones, thus imposing a higher level of protection than required by the broadcaster. Similarly, the intermediate boxes are imposing the highest level of protection on all protected data streams, even though the data stream itself may call for a "more modest" level of protection.

Of course, if the FCC prevails (and they will), the two highest levels of protection (down-res and shut-off of analog output) will never be allowed to be utilized by broadcasters. (They are apparently part of the HDCP specification, and are already implemented by products, but they will very likely survive only as "dead code".) Which makes it all the more ridiculous that your scaler is shutting off its analog output on all HDCP-protected material!

If the STB can be trusted to enforce the protections required by the broadcaster, then the licensed intermediate device should be capable of being trusted as well to enforce exactly the same restrictions as the STB.


But that's just what happens. The intermediary box obviously can decrypt the encrypted signal, since otherwise you couldn't have a working scaler. But, it is required to recognize the protections of the source box and if the source says this is protected material, it cannot route the signal out it's analog (or unprotected digital) outputs. So it's doing exactly what you are saying.

The problem here is that the HD300 isn't paying attention to whether the source content coming in is asking for protections or not, it just locks down whenever the downstream box is not a display.


Similarly, the intermediate boxes are imposing the highest level of protection on all protected data streams, even though the data stream itself may call for a "more modest" level of protection.


Oh, no, I didn't mean to give you that impression. The box isn't doing anything other than telling the source that it's an intermediary, and then turning off the analog outputs if it is told to by the source. In this case, it's the source that's going Blackhawk on him and just encrypting everything.



In other words, your argument is fallacious because it can be "moved up one level". Paraphrased for the STB, it would read "If the STB was allowed to circumvent HDCP protection (by allowing analog output when authorized), it wouldn't be possible for the broadcaster to enforce its protections".


That's taking it a little far. The broadcasters are already in the position to do whatever they want if they chose to go off the reservation. HDCP addresses the home environment and the STB is the first stop into the home for broadcast content.

Originally posted by Chris Loker
People who have problems with their downloads - I was told they are supposed to have a solution nailed down. If you haven't talked to DirecTV today you probably should.

Why? Are the only going to hit the bins of people who call them and ask for it?

Originally posted by wmccain
You are correct. The annoying "channel creep" in DirecTV channels is no fault of the STB, it happens because DirecTV updates their channel lineup via the APG data stream (received via satellite). They are constantly "fiddling" with the PPV channel lineup, so channels get deleted and then later re-introduced in that area.

Occasionally, some of the "regular" channels (usually ones that are fairly new in the DirecTV lineup) get a "delete/add" hit which forces them to come back on in the Custom Guide. WHY they do this is not clear. Perhaps they want to ensure the everybody "knows about" the new channel. Perhaps there are some technical parameters still being "fine tuned". Perhaps it is to ensure that everyone's receiver gets the new lineup (in case it were unplugged or something). Perhaps it is simply a "clerical error" on the part of one of their genius-level support people ...

On the other hand, OTA "channel creep" appears to happen for other reasons. For instance, after the 2.0 download, my two boxes (an HD300 and a 3200A) both preserved their previous Custom Guide subsets of DirecTV channels, but all of the terrestrial non-HDTV channels that I had suppressed magically re-appeared and had to be suppressed again. I do not agree with this. Sure, the root cause is the channel shuffling at D*. But if the receiver actually filtered correctly, D* could fiddle to their hearts' content and it would make no difference. The channel numbers in all the guides except *ALL CHANNELS* should simply remain static no matter what. Custom/favorites means a conscious decision was made to specifically select those channels period. End of story. Anything else defeats their purpose. It's beyond presumptuous for anybody to assume that "new" channels will be desired. My hope was that the upgrade could manage this but it hasn't. Clearly it's caused by D*, but it's a problem that the box should be able to take care of via proper memory filtering. Just as it now remembers to bring up the last guide used, it should also remember the previous specific channel set that was input and only display those channels. Plain and simple. There's really no excuse for it not to work correctly IMO. It's just a crappy implementation. Is it by design? I have no idea but it doesn't matter. Either way it's BS ;).

ron

R11,

what you are saying is true if and only if the new channels were added/updated/changed as "hidden." the custom guide shows only the channels that are not hidden and this is by design. any channels showing up again later would most certainly not be hidden and therefore would be in your custom list.

the only way to do it otherwise would be to use favorites and not custom.

Originally posted by Dean Roddey
Oh, no, I didn't mean to give you that impression. The box isn't doing anything other than telling the source that it's an intermediary, and then turning off the analog outputs if it is told to by the source. In this case, it's the source that's going Blackhawk on him and just encrypting everything.
I'm still not sure we are on the same page about the interface between the STB and the "next box". I have been assuming that in addition to encrypting the data stream, the DVI/HDCP data stream contains flags that permit the source (in this case the STB) to tell the next box (either a scaler or a display) exactly what level of protection is required (as specified to the STB by flags in the broadcast data stream). If the next box is a display, the level of protection is often a moot issue, since typical displays just "show it" and do not "pass it on" (although there are displays with outputs, which presumably changes their category to that of "intermediate box"). But in the case of an intermediate box, knowing the required level of protection is critical for a reasonable and robust implementation.

Perhaps that it not the case — perhaps the DVI/HDCP interface only provides for "protected/non-protected" to be passed to the next box (i.e. encrypted/not encrypted). In fact, in trying to make sense of your argument, I see three possibilities:

1. The HDCP spec does not provide for passing "protection level" flags to the next box, so implementing the highest level of protection is the only option available to the next box (intermediate or final).

2. The HDCP spec does provide for passing "protection level" flags to the next box, but the LG-designed STB is "going Blackhawk" on unprotected material and is not only encrypting it, but is setting the "protection level" to its highest setting, which forces your scaler to shut off it analog outputs.

3. The HDCP spec does provide for passing "protection level" flags to the next box, but the license for intermediate boxes requires them to ignore the "protection level" and implement the highest protection level (shut off analog output), regardless.

So which is it? If it is #1, the designers of DVI/HDCP were simply stupid, they missed something obvious. If it is #2, all fault is with LG's implementation, as you have been claiming. If it is #3, the designers of DVI/HDCP were arbitrary and arrogant. (It is #3 that I have been assuming, and arguing against.)

Originally posted by R11
The channel numbers in all the guides except *ALL CHANNELS* should simply remain static no matter what. Custom/favorites means a conscious decision was made to specifically select those channels period.
I agree with you philosophically, but I can tell you that DirecTV and the manufactures do not see it that way, in the case of the Custom Guide. Their point of view is that you do not "specifically select those channels", in fact you specifically de-select the channels that you don't want to see.

When they delete a channel, it no longer appears in even the "All" channels guide, so any "de-selection flag" that you have set is lost. Then when the channel is re-added, it is a "new entry" in the lineup list and is shown in both guides, All and Custom, because you have not yet had an opportunity to de-select it.

The "Surf Guide" on the other hand, works differently, because it is implemented differently. Rather than being implicitly defined by a set of "de-selection flags" in the main channel lineup list, the Surf Guide is in fact a separate list of up to 50 channels to which you want "rapid access". Thus, nothing appears in that list unless you asked for it!

Perhaps that it not the case — perhaps the DVI/HDCP interface only provides for "protected/non-protected" to be passed to the next box (i.e. encrypted/not encrypted). In fact, in trying to make sense of your argument, I see three possibilities


You are thinking of 5C, which is something else totally, and related to copy protection and copy generation management. DVI/HDCP/HDMI are just display connection mechanisms that get digital data from source to display. They have nothing to do with copy protection or how many copies can be made and that kind of thing. There aren't any flags like in 5C. The source either encrypts the outoing or it doesn't, and it does so based on whether the downstream box is a target display (which cannot expose the signal) or something else and the request of the source content for protection.

That's how I understand it. I think it's comletely legitimate for what it is intended for. It's a digital (protectable) replacement for the component or RGB cable that you are using now, not something like firewire used to move around recordable protected content. It's a 'source to display' transmission mechanism, which of course has to account for some types of intermediary boxes such as switchers and scalers.

The level of data on the DVI/HDCP/HDMI cables are way higher than could be usefully used in recording mechanisms, so currently there is pretty much a split between Firewire which is moving around compressed data streams and handling recording and generation management (5C), and source to display connections which move uncompressed very high data rate to the display, and which doesn't require any sort of generation management, just a way of protecting the output from source to display if required.

Originally posted by Dean Roddey
There aren't any flags like in 5C.
Okay, then the answer to my question is #1.

In that case, DVI/HDCP is more limited in scope than I presumed.

Still, the license requirement that a target device with analog outputs (which could be a scaler, a switcher, or even certain displays) must turn them off is based on an older, and hopefully dying, MPAA point of view. If the FCC policy stands, this requirement will eventually "go away". Of course, target devices will always be required to disable any unencrypted digital outputs (or, in other words, all digital output of protected material must remain protected).

I don't think it's going to go away. HDCP/HDMI are very much the standard that all CE manufacturers seem to be moving towards. I'd do it if I were them, so I'm not going to cast any blame. I just want the Sony to work the way it's supposed to.

The "Surf Guide" on the other hand, works differently, because it is implemented differently. Rather than being implicitly defined by a set of "de-selection flags" in the main channel lineup list, the Surf Guide is in fact a separate list of up to 50 channels to which you want "rapid access". Thus, nothing appears in that list unless you asked for it!In other words, it actually works! :). I understand why the other guides don't work, I just don't understand why they didn't implement them using the "select" approach instead.... If it's a matter of memory capacity, I'd gladly swap all the extra guides (including the favorite surfer) for one true custom guide that was limited to 50 channels. Heck, even if it only had the capacity for 25 channels I'd probably only fill half of it. I just think it's a short-sighted design flaw...

ron

Originally posted by Dean Roddey
I don't think it's going to go away.
Why not? The "handwriting on the wall" (read: FCC) says that the MPAA will eventually give up on trying to protect analog output and "settle" for strong protection of digital output.

Standards can change, restrictions can be relaxed. Standards often do change, for pragmatic reasons or "in the face of reality".

And the MPAA has retreated before, too. For a whole year they pressured CE manufacturers to not release progressive scan DVD players (oblivious to the fact that you could get essentially the same result with an external scaler, which is a kind of reverse-image of our current discussion). Then they gave in — and now you can buy a progressive scan DVD player for under $200!

Originally posted by Dean Roddey
The source either encrypts the outgoing or it doesn't, and it does so based on whether the downstream box is a target display (which cannot expose the signal) or something else and the request of the source content for protection.
Seems to me, that under this scheme the source box (STB) must be required to encrypt all protected material, regardless of the type of destination box. Even if the destination is a simple display with no outputs, the protected material must be encrypted "on the wire". Otherwise somebody with a simple splitter could capture it (I realize that it is uncompressed video and hence storage would be a challenge).

So why should the STB care as to what type of box it is connected? Clearly, the LG boxes do care, and are imposing unnecessarily harsh measures on "intermediate" boxes — but, given that this implementation is erroneous, why should the STB ever care what type of box is on the receiving end?

I was speaking kind of loosely above, so it conceptually does what I said, but the details you'd have to delve into the HDCP spec for. But, basically, the source senses if the downstream box is an intermediary and does something special which tells the downstream box that it should not allow the content to be exposed on it's analog outputs.

But yes, I would assume it's protected all the way to the display. But, from what I understand, there's not anything like the 5C flags in the data stream. It may be that, because HDCP is a two way conversation, that it's just something that's decided during the ongoing key exchange process between the two adjacent nodes, not something that flows through in the data stream itself.

Why not? The "handwriting on the wall" (read: FCC) says that the MPAA will eventually give up on trying to protect analog output and "settle" for strong protection of digital output.


I'm not sure that the FCC can do anything about it. As long as the source device doesn't block the analog outputs, I don't see that the FCC can enforce anything beyond that. And I would imagine it only applies to broadcast, I don't think that they can enforce it on non-broadcast data sources, such as the upcoming HD-DVD. I don't see where HD-DVD would fall under their control, because it has nothing to do with broadcast material and people selling data sources have no obligation to make it work with anything that they don't want them to.

It's quite possible (technically, though probably not practically) that HD-DVD could have no analog outputs at all, and I don't see how the FCC could do anything about it at all. The DMCA pretty clearly sanctions the right of content holders to protect their content. But, within 5 years or less, there will probably no appreciable sales hit to make all HD-DVD players only output HDCP/DVI period, because digital sets (in the market where HD-DVD means anything at all, i.e. the home theater crowd) will dominate.

Originally posted by Dean Roddey
... does something special which tells the downstream box that it should not allow the content to be exposed on it's analog outputs.
That implies that it has the option to allow some devices to expose content on the analog output! If such a "handshaking" option exists, it is at least partially equivalent to the 5C-style copy protection flags. In which case we are back to scenarios #2 or #3 in my previous list of possibilities: either the STB is not only (erroneously) requiring protection of unprotected material, but it is (erroneously) requiring too much such protection; or else the HDCP spec is requiring STBs to assert too much protection when talking to intermediate devices.
Originally posted by Dean Roddey
I don't think that they can enforce it on non-broadcast data sources, such as the upcoming HD-DVD. I don't see where HD-DVD would fall under their control, because it has nothing to do with broadcast material and people selling data sources have no obligation to make it work with anything that they don't want them to.
Quite so. You are absolutely right. And I forget to consider that HD boxes (intermediate and display) will certainly be used for these non-broadcast sources in the future.
Originally posted by Dean Roddey
It's quite possible (technically, though probably not practically) that HD-DVD could have no analog outputs at all ...
Note that SACD and DVD-Audio players, until recently, had no digital outputs for high-res audio — they were "analog only". Due, of course, to record industry paranoia about people making "perfect copies". (I haven't kept up with it, but I seem to recall there are now some SACD and/or DVD-Audio players with "secure" digital interfaces to high-end preamps. Meridian, I am pretty sure, has this, but I don't think that my Lexicon MC-12 does).

either the STB is not only (erroneously) requiring protection of unprotected material, but it is (erroneously) requiring too much such protection; or else the HDCP spec is requiring STBs to assert too much protection when talking to intermediate devices.


It is the former.


Note that SACD and DVD-Audio players, until recently, had no digital outputs for high-res audio — they were "analog only". Due, of course, to record industry paranoia about people making "perfect copies".


I think that they just had no practical secure digital options at the time when those specs were being put together, so it was analog or wait for years to work out a standard digital mechanism. If they were coming along now, I assume it would be digital only because the technology is there.

Companies can arrange to get permission to implement a proprietary digital connection themselves, and some have, such as Meridian. At some point perhaps a standard digital protected connection might come along and will begin getting implemented in all the boxes. I'd much prefer one digital cable than 6 analog cables.

Getting back to the upgrade:
I, and some others reported a problem with the timer/record function. The box would turn on at the proper time but often would stay on the channel that it was left on rather than the one selected. There were only a few posts on this problem so I do not know if is widespread, or if not many people use this function. I replaced the box 3 times and had the problem with each one. Version 2 does not seem to fix this. Does anyone have a comment ?????

i have not had any problem with the timer feature. I have not used the timer/record combo and instead use the timer so the box turns on and tunes to the channel when the program starts. My Sony DVD recorder (rdr-gx7) starts recording as soon as it senses video on the input so i never used the timer/record.

Have you tried using just the timer feature and see if that works better?

I too thought this was the 2.0 firmware upgrade thread since they merged all the topics into one massive thread. Maybe the upgrade was to fix this hdcp stuff also.

Originally posted by lenfl
Getting back to the upgrade:
Today I had my Sony HD300 with version 2.00 connected all afternoon and evening to the same "garden-variety" NTSC television set that was used several months ago when I observed (and reported) that it would "lose color" (go to black-and-white) about every 15 minutes or so on the composite/S-video output jacks. This happened mostly (but not exclusively) when tuned to barker channel 201. It happened consistently on two HD300s that I tested (bought from different places). But it never happened on my LG 3200A.

I am happy to report that the problem did not re-occur. I stayed on channel 201 the whole time, never saw anything but a color picture.

This could mean that the problem is fixed in version 2.00. But it could also mean that DirecTV is no longer sending anything that "triggered the bug." (It was known that DirecTV often tested the HDCP copy protection flag on channel 201, and I was able to confirm that from a knowledgeable industry source. But the idea that this flag was somehow causing the HD300 to suppress the color on its SD outputs was at best a speculative conjecture.)

Originally posted by showard594
Maybe the upgrade was to fix this hdcp stuff also.
Dean Roddey had been hoping that 2.00 would fix the bug in the HD300's implementation of HDCP (which is that when the STB is connected to a video scaler via DVI, it asserts protection (encrypts) even on ordinary, non-protected programs).

But, alas, this bug was not fixed.

By the way, DirecTV's policy is to allow manufacturers exactly one firmware upgrade via satellite to fix bugs. So they try to hold off until they think they have fixed all the bugs they consider "critical". (Which explains all the delays in the arrival of the 2.00 update.)

The downside, of course, is that any bug not fixed in this upgrade most likely never will be fixed. Your only hope then is to wait for the next product generation.

And if DTV is going to take over all future STB design, there probably won't be a next generation Sony, right? And what's the chance that they'll fix anything that's not already fixed, given that it's now a dead end product line?

Originally posted by Dean Roddey
And if DTV is going to take over all future STB design, there probably won't be a next generation Sony, right?
Right. In fact, the list of two or three manufacturers that DirecTV will be using was released. I can't find it now, but I recall Thompson (RCA) and Philips. No Sony, LG, or Samsung.
Originally posted by Dean Roddey
And what's the chance that they'll fix anything that's not already fixed, given that it's now a dead end product line?
Zero to none. Sony, in fact, discontinued the HD300 even before DirecTV publicly announced the new hardware policy. Obviously, they had been told ...

I finally received v2.00 this morning. It did fix the Custom guide issue not defaulting to ALL whenever you hit the Guidee button. I'll keep an eye out for audio dropouts.

WOW! :D The HD300 Upgrade fairies who specialize in fixing locked up STBs visited last night and gave me v2.0

Originally posted by thepicman
WOW! :D The HD300 Upgrade fairies who specialize in fixing locked up STBs visited last night and gave me v2.0

Are you serious? That is amazing. How in the h*ll did they get a box with half a firmware upgrade to respond and take a new one? Obviously, there is some area or a completely separate BIOS (for lack of a better term) that is still able to communicate and accept commands from the data stream. I'd be really curious to find out how this really works.

Wow. In any event, congrats!! Now we can all get back to complaining about what they didn't fix :D

Mine is working too.:eek:
I know the audio drops are fixed because I could make mine drop anytime I turned on a ceiling fan anywhere in the house. Not anymore, all gone.

Those satellite fairies must have a sleigh better than Jolly Old St. Nick because they visited my house, too.

So far I can verify they finally fixed the damn guide, and I've adjusted my Pronto accordingly.

It SEEMS like it's working better on off air HD programming, one of my local stations doesn't come in well (Mid range, or 'normal' on the signal meter), and it used to be unwatchable for all the freezes and audio drop outs-- this AM it's smooth. Not sure if that's an upgrade-related thing or if it's just a good morning.

I'll go back to just lurking now.

Originally posted by thepicman
WOW! :D The HD300 Upgrade fairies who specialize in fixing locked up STBs visited last night and gave me v2.0

I had a feeling you would be up and running today...You have to figure they took into account that upgrades would be cut short to some of the people some of the time and people having to send their receivers in for repair when the upgrade didnt take would be a nightmare. Anyway, glad your back up. Now it will be a good weekend..

the audio drops from a light switch are definately not fixed for me but then again i don't think this is a software issue. i have the monster power supply and i still get this little drop and a very small pixelization when i switch on a lamp post that is in the same room.

however, no resets so far, guide works as planned, i never had audio drops on D* content, only OTA. The OTA drops for one station here in San Diego has been identified as their problem and they have a fix in place now.

The video blinks and green splash from the bottom are pain at times. wondering if the HD Tivo also has this problem as it was reported to be not specific to this LG line of units.

/*
Update: I searched the HD Tivo forum and yes that box also has the video drop (blink).
*/

all in all i am satisified with this box. i have had it since late october'03 and has been a pretty good performer with the occasional hiccups. i guess now i will use it until forced to change by D* or the 5th generation units come out. I will skip one gen for now if possible.

Originally posted by jbinkley
I finally received v2.00 this morning. It did fix the Custom guide issue not defaulting to ALL whenever you hit the Guidee button. I'll keep an eye out for audio dropouts. Was your receiver locked up at 60% or did just not get the software until today?

Hi!

My upgrade got through finally - to get it I had to keep the unit on at 1:14am PDT on channel 201. Apparently for some reason my Terk switch doesn't like it when the HD300 is on standby so the HD300 is unable to upgrade unless it's on and viewing a sat channel. Weird.

Best regards,

AI

I have a Sony HD300 still running 1.06 with no upgrade scheduled. Anyone else in the same boat or have a recommendation on how to get the 2.0 upgrade scheduled?

Has the 2.0 upgrade changed the way the receiver maps the digital channels? I ask this because right now, channels 8-2 and 8-3 are showing their respective networks (Fox and UPN). These usually get mapped to 40-1 and 40-2. Not unusual before the upgrade, but right now I see both sets of signals. However, 40-2 is the same program as 40-1, so I'm thinking that the HTL-HD is now mapping differently when the PSIP info is messed up and before it gets reset.

Originally posted by HDDJ
Was your receiver locked up at 60% or did just not get the software until today?

I was out of town until yesterday. When I came home there was a message stating that the software upgrade would take place in 195000+ seconds and it was counting up. I called DTV and they had me hit the reset button. I made sure I left it on a DTV channel and went to bed. THis morning when I got up it had been upgraded at 4:14AM .

I'm still out of town. Hoping that either my update was successful, or that D*TV will keep sending the update for a few weeks.

I'm still out of town. Hoping that either my update was successful, or that D*TV will keep sending the update for a few weeks.

Its my understanding that D* has the latest firmware updated to any box that is not up to the latest approved and released software. This is not the only much less first box that has received firmware updates via satellite from DirecTV.

Originally posted by showard594
the audio drops from a light switch are definately not fixed for me but then again i don't think this is a software issue. i have the monster power supply and i still get this little drop and a very small pixelization when i switch on a lamp post that is in the same room.

If you haven't tried this, just for the halibut run an extension cord from another room known to be on a different breaker to your receiver. If the dropouts and pixelization stop when turning lights on/off in the viewing room, that would be evidence that you need the services of an electrician to trace down a wiring fault - could be something as simple as a marginal connection at a switch or fixture, a faulty switch, a bad ballest, or even a loose bulb. Your wiring may be trying to talk to you - are you listening? Some types of interference can and do break through power conditioners and uninteruptible power supplies.

Its my understanding that D* has the latest firmware updated to any box that is not up to the latest approved and released software. This is not the only much less first box that has received firmware updates via satellite from DirecTV.

Do you mean that if I kept my receiver in the box for 10 years, then set it up, that it would still receive the 2.0 software update then?

If you haven't tried this, just for the halibut run an extension cord from another room known to be on a different breaker to your receiver.

Just to reiterate, this issue has been covered in depth in the past here and one of the main complaints with allot of the hd boxes receiving mainly OTA low number channels. The audio dropout is not created from noise or problems in the ac supply current shared to your hd box. I has been discovered the problem can be caused from from an ac switch creating spark interference in the air picked up by your OTA antennna. I have run all my equipment off batteries via various ups boxes and confirmed this theory. I was told the 2.0 firmware update would fix this issue but in my case it has not. I believe your OTA antenna, cable run and if you have an amplifier can all have an effect on this issue.

When I get time I am going to try some other antenna/cable combinations to try and get this issue tolerable. I have accepted that the digital signal that is received for OTA stations is very fragile and maybe can be tweaked for these boxes.

Do you mean that if I kept my receiver in the box for 10 years, then set it up, that it would still receive the 2.0 software update then?

I cant say if D* puts a time frame on a firmware update to receivers they support. What I can say is I have had other recivers updated and I was told that this is an automatic procedure that is checked and scheduled for receivers meeting D*'s criteria.

Thanks for the reply showard594, but it is the timer function that I use. I guess not too many people have this problem but that is odd since I had it with 3 boxes ??????????

Originally posted by KC-Technerd
Do you mean that if I kept my receiver in the box for 10 years, then set it up, that it would still receive the 2.0 software update then?
I doubt it.
I was told by D* that the 2.0 download will happen every day at ~ 01:15 PST from 11 May 04 through the month of June 04.

A new thread has started for DirecTV HD video dropouts.

2 folks with a Sammy 160 and 2 with HD300 have this problem.
Read my post there about the time frame this all started.

Please post your results there---


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=402136

thanks,
ron

Originally posted by pmkalby
.....
2) Unplug the dish feed from the receiver
......

**edit: I informed the helpful person that told me to do the above that of the SIX other D* and Sony CSRs I spoke with, not one of them ever said anything about disconnecting the dish feed from the receiver. They all said unplug the power, and said nothing of the dish feed.

Apparently their theory is the 18 VDC from the DSS HDTV LNB is keeping the unit from resetting. They told me this because I'm a VIP, and didn't say I had to keep it on the QT or the DL. :D

Am I nuts or did no one else see this issue? AFAIK there is *NO* power fed from the LNBs to the receiver. The receiver feeds DC to the LNB to choose transponders. Right?!

If I'm correct on this as I think I am, this is just one more case of people doing what I call 'superstitious' things to fix something: they do not understand why, but want you to do it anyway.... Drives me nuts, and when you call them on it, all they say is 'that's what we were told to do'.

Originally posted by leesweet
The receiver feeds DC to the LNB to choose transponders. Right?!
Right.

(The DC also powers the LNB.)

Originally posted by wmccain
Right.

(The DC also powers the LNB.)

The only other thing that does occur is that by disconnecting the Sat Input you do drop all voltage to that port of the LNB and or Multi Switch. Even with the unit turned off at least 13 Volts is present on that connector by disconnecting you are further clearing the circuit. In cases where non plated connector are used a high frequency resistance can also build up between the threads on the fitting that can also be a problem, it is known as fretting.

For what ever reason there has been some success unlocking units by unplugging and disconnecting all the cables for a period of time and then hooking back up and waiting for the next download.

Originally posted by lenfl
Getting back to the upgrade:
I, and some others reported a problem with the timer/record function. The box would turn on at the proper time but often would stay on the channel that it was left on rather than the one selected. There were only a few posts on this problem so I do not know if is widespread, or if not many people use this function. I replaced the box 3 times and had the problem with each one. Version 2 does not seem to fix this. Does anyone have a comment ?????


When using the timer/recod function, and when selecting the channel, try hitting the"enter" botton after you select the channel you want. If you don't do that, the channel you programed doesn't take.

Hurray! You all got your updates. Finished wetting your pants so you can advise on what the update actually did?

So far I am pleased with the upgrade. My main issue was the box locking up and it has not done so since the upgrade hit. Is it the consensus opinion that this problem has been resolved? Has anyone had any lockups since the upgrade?

I received my update with no problems. However, audio dropouts - the problem I most hoped would be resolved - continue the same as before the update.

When I went to setup my Surf guide I was repeatedly pressing the remote buttons scrolling up/down. I did lock up the box. I know that previous lockup problems people have been complaining about were attributed to using the remote to fast. Looks like there still are issues. I normally never have this issue as with my Pronto remote the box gets fairly consistant timing on multiple presses (so I don't expect any further lockups).

I have been out of town a lot so haven't had a real night to sit and watch TV. But in the time I have the audio drops seemed to have disappeared.

Chris, when you got the lock up, did it unhide all of your hidden channels? That is what I found most annoying about the previous lock ups.

I have been out of town for the last week and had all the electronics unplugged. When I got home yesterday, the box said I would receive the update last night, but that didn't happen.

Is there anything I should do or just keep waiting?

The lockup cause the box to reset and show rebuilding channels. However, it did not unhide any channels or have any noticable effect on the custom or surf guide.

The audio dropouts could be caused by a bad signal sent by your OTA local station.

Originally posted by lenfl
Thanks for the reply showard594, but it is the timer function that I use. I guess not too many people have this problem but that is odd since I had it with 3 boxes ??????????

I believe your right in your perception of the timer bug Lenfl. I haven't had time to check the problem with the new firmware version 2.0 but as you said the timer will turn on the box but wont change to the correct channel programed. I'm not sure this happens when you pick a program from the guide and pick the timer option but I know it happens when you program from the timer/record feature. I just leave my box on and then it will change to the correct channel programed.

Their is a second bug in the timer, Sony has been informed but this I know didn't make the fix list because it was just confirmed. The bug is when daylight savings time comes in to effect the receiver changes its time correctly but all the programs in the timer/record list change one hour also.


Now here is a real strange one (I do have firmware 2.0). Over the weekend I thought I would check out the box by checking out the usability and features implemented with the new firmware. After trying the closed caption option service leval 1 from the remote on the digital side the box locked up and stayed on channel 2.1 (CBS in my area), the remote was not usable and the buttons on the front pannel didn't work. I tried reseting, recycling power, disconecting everything from the box and waiting 1/2 hour with no joy. When powering up or reseting it would build a channel list but then stay on channel 2.1, even after pushing the power button on the panel the panel would go dark and the red circle with the line was present but the output was still supplying channel 2.1. I noticed while building the channel list by pushing buttons that the format changed from 1080i to 720p. So I tried pushing the menu button in one second intervals just before the channel list was finished building. This allowed me to get into the menu and change back the closed caption option I had picked earlier. After that the box worked fine. I have tried to get it to lock up again with the same procedure described earlier and I could not reproduce the same results.

Now here is a real strange one (I do have firmware 2.0). Over the weekend I thought I would check out the box by checking out the usability and features implemented with the new firmware. After trying the closed caption option service leval 1 from the remote on the digital side the box locked up and stayed on channel 2.1 (CBS in my area), the remote was not usable and the buttons on the front pannel didn't work.

Reo

I discovered the same lockup. When I'm watching a digital channel (21.2 in my case) and turn on the service level 1 digital closed caption "feature" the box will lock up. The remote and front panel are not useable - except I was able to turn off the box via the remote - the box front panel when dark, but the picture was still output to the monitor. I had to unplug it to get it to return, but I can recreate this everytime.

After I unplugged the box I was unable to turn off the digital closed captioning via the CC button. It would lock up again. The only way to recover from this was to unplug the box, plug it back in and go into the setup menu first thing and turn off the digital closed captioning from there without pushing any other buttons on the remote.

Dave
WB2FCR

This update may have introduced a timer/record bug (as some have mentioned). Last night, when I selected an upcoming program from the Guide, it added to the timer/record list fine (correct date & time). But, when I tried to manually add a timer/record slot (9:59-11:01pm), it displayed "Tuesday" & "May 17", when it should've been "Monday". It just would not let me select the correct date & that time slot. However, when I checked the timer/record list, the correct date/time was there. Weird.

Originally posted by Brajesh
This update may have introduced a timer/record bug (as some have mentioned). Last night, when I selected an upcoming program from the Guide, it added to the timer/record list fine (correct date & time). But, when I tried to manually add a timer/record slot (9:59-11:01pm), it displayed "Tuesday" & "May 17", when it should've been "Monday". It just would not let me select the correct date & that time slot. However, when I checked the timer/record list, the correct date/time was there. Weird.

This "feature" was there in 1.06 on my HTL-HD as well, the day would spuriously advance when moving the timer start time (seemed to be around 12 hours from something?). It still showed up correctly on the list after being set, and for my two timers (OTA Las Vegas & CSI) I never had any problems with having to leave it on a particular channel for it to work. In fact I tested each case I could think of before setting up the timers, the timer always seemed to work exactly as I thought it should.

* Box off -> timer turns box on to the correct channel (I leave mine on all the time for the ReplayTV to control, but I tested anyway) - didn't matter if the timer channel or a different channel was selected before turning box off.
* Box on, different channel -> timer turns to selected channel with gray bottom banner giving 10-second countdown
* Box on, same channel -> I think there is still a gray bottom banner, but doesn't change channels of course.

Timer works great for me. But I'll be deactivating the HTL-HD soon now that I have HDTivo.

Originally posted by wb2fcr
Reo

I discovered the same lockup. When I'm watching a digital channel (21.2 in my case) and turn on the service level 1 digital closed caption "feature" the box will lock up.

Thanks for confirming this wb2fcr. I found the key is getting to activate the menu before finishing the building of the channel list after rebooting the receiver, this is the only way I found to get the box unlocked. I do have a call in to Sony (a tech specialist in the hd300)



Getting to the timer bug referred to by Brajesh, I do concur with H_a_h_3 this bug has been there since 1.06, I think you'l notice when you manually add a timer recording as your scrolling to the correct time the date or time (I don't remember which) changes at 6:00, this put the date out of sync with the correct day.

H_a_h_3: I cant say the timer bug with the box off not going to the correct channel is an all the time event or under certain channel selection conditions but I have had it happen so often I just leave my box on. I do believe someone posted that this bug still exists with ver 2.0 but I have not confirmed this as of yet.

Anyone consider that the timer bug might be related to the LG brainiacs being Korean time-centric? :) Since the bug doesn't affect the actual recording time, I consider it a harmless quirk. It did give rise to some uncertainty for me at first, though. (Oh, for the days when Hughes actually designed and nursed DirecTV boxes through production...)

Anybody else get an audio dropout during 24 on Fox tonight? This was my first post-2.0 dropout.

No dropouts here during '24' last night. It'll be great to watch this show in true HD next season.

Set a timer event for HBO from the guide. Next morning, found the box turned on and recorded the last channel the box was on before I went to bed (MSNBC) - didn't switch to the one I chose in the timer setting (HBO) . And I wasted a DVD-R in the process. So I guess I have to remember to either leave the box on the desired channel before I go to bed - or leave the box on. Not a terrible workaround.

Originally posted by Brajesh
No dropouts here during '24' last night. It'll be great to watch this show in true HD next season.

Well, this was my first dropout since the 2.0 upgrade. A dropout once a week is a lot better than two every hour like it was before! And I agree -- can't wait for 24 in true HD, either!

I got the upgrade. There was one bug that they missed. The "Zoom" function still doesn't work correctly. It doesn't stretch the picture enough horizontally. If you are watching a 480i source, upconverted to 720p or 1080i, you should be able to zoom a letterboxed picture so the black bars go away. For example, "ER" is letterboxed. To zoom correctly I have to send my projector 480p and zoom it at the projector. Which is fine, except the STB should be able to do this. The Zoom feature is useless. I sent Sony, LG, and Hughes e-mails but I guess it wasn't a big enough deal.

Originally posted by Robert Simandl
Well, this was my first dropout since the 2.0 upgrade. A dropout once a week is a lot better than two every hour like it was before! And I agree -- can't wait for 24 in true HD, either!

I was watching tv in the bedroom, no HD, just a standard D* reciever and the sound was dropping now and then.

My point...sometimes, it's just the programming itself that has the problems.

Ya never know!

Originally posted by inpt
Set a timer event for HBO from the guide. Next morning, found the box turned on and recorded the last channel the box was on before I went to bed (MSNBC) - didn't switch to the one I chose in the timer setting (HBO) . And I wasted a DVD-R in the process. So I guess I have to remember to either leave the box on the desired channel before I go to bed - or leave the box on. Not a terrible workaround.


When using the timer/recod function, and when selecting the channel, try hitting the"enter" botton after you select the channel you want. If you don't do that, the channel you programed doesn't take, and your left with the last channel you were watching.

Thanks Arnie, i'll give that a try.

I love it that I can get the custom guide to stay up now...

THAT BEING SAID... one thing I like on my SD Hughes boxes is that when I pull up my "Surf" channel list, it will tell me at the top of the screen what show is on the channel I have highlighted. That way I can see what I want to watch before I select that channel. It's usually must faster than going through the guide, or even a favorites list. My HTL-HD doesn't do that.. instead, when I highlight a channel on my surf menu, it just gives me the channel number. I'd much rather have what show is airing on TNT rather than see that TNT is channel 245.

Does anyone know a fix for this? Or where do we start our rant to get that included in update 3.0?

LET'S GET ON THIS PEOPLE! WE'RE AVSFORUM MEMBERS AND WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE COMPLAINING ABOUT HOW EVERYTHING SUCKS 24/7!!!!

:D ;)

Anyone having "no signal" issues with LG3200A?

This is a recurring problem over weeks for me, and occurs intermittently, but when it does, I'm locked out of watching tv , usually until the next day.

I've read many of the posts on this and the original 3200A thread, and didn't notice any reference to this problem.

My AV installer blames it on the DVI output, and has recommended switching to component output
(My DVI output goes directly to Marantz VP12S3 pj, and soon to go to a Gefen DVI switch)
Doesn't make sense to sacrifice the DVI output.

Would appreciate any advice

Thanks,

Barry

Doesn't make sense to sacrifice the DVI output.
....................
You've got that right ! Especially with a projector. By the way Gefen makes a remote controlled DVI switch that switches audio.
http://www.kvmgalore.com/shopping/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=1285

No probs with DVI on my Sony with 2.0. It's on 24/7 forever. Sammie DLP is turned on, I switch to/from S-vid/DVI depending on whether I'm using Replay or HD and never had a problem with the DVI working. So, might be an issue with your STB.

If your LG3200 is saying no signal then your installer may be the problem.

Thanks for the help
I think you're right-- might be my installer! :-)

I called Marantz, and their tech support said not from pj;
Most likely from dvi cable-- (50 feet, copper throughout)
Said anything over 25-30 feet needs signal enhancer.

That leaves either the LG or the dvi cable.

Anybody know if dvi cables of this length are prone to dropped signals?

Thanks,
Barry

Hi!

Any copper DVI cable over 15-20 feet is a potential problem. Some vendors use extra low resistance wire and get away with a little more, but 50 feet is pushing it a lot, especially for HDTV (720p and 1080i). You might need fiber for that, so you should start looking at fiber DVI cables.

One question, though: you don't really make it clear if the "no signal" comes from the PJ or the LG. If it comes from the LG (i.e., you can still see the guide, etc., it's just that you don't see TV) it's definitely not the DVI cable, but rather the signal coming from the antenna. If it's the PJ that's complaining (i.e., you can't see anything coming from the LG) it's definitely the DVI cable, and you need a fiber one.

Best regards,

AI

AI-- thanks

I didn't realize that was how to determine where the "no signal" was coming from. That's been much of the problem-- not knowing how to troubleshoot.

I went upstairs to check, and the satellite is now working. I'll have to wait until it "no signals" me again.

Barry

Help!!! My 3200A went down during a power outage...when it came back on, all I get is "wait". Ive tried unplugging/waiting, hitting the reset button, removing the access card and reloading, called Directv(they NEVER heard of a LG) Thank God for my old trusty, reliable DTC100....Any ideas on rebooting this wonderful (??????) receiver?? Any help is appreciated....

Disconnect all power and Coax cables. Leave it for an hour, and then plug it back in. I don't have the 3200A but most of other DirecTv LG derivatives only display the "wait" message on the front of the box while they are rebuilding the channel lists. How long did you leave it at the "wait" message before you tired to reset it?

Originally posted by fishman
Help!!! My 3200A went down during a power outage...when it came back on, all I get is "wait". Ive tried unplugging/waiting, hitting the reset button, removing the access card and reloading, called Directv(they NEVER heard of a LG) Thank God for my old trusty, reliable DTC100....Any ideas on rebooting this wonderful (??????) receiver?? Any help is appreciated....

I would disconect the unit completly including Sat In and pull the Power Cord and leave it unplugged for at least a hour. Then hook it back up and plug in, this worked fairly well for those that locked up downloading the new software upgrade.

Good Luck,

Mick

Thanks guys...I had the "wait" on for several hours....nothing....moved it into another room(replacing the LG with the DTC 100) and plugged into another set...still the same....Ill try leaving it off for an hour or so and try after "the Sopranos"...Later, Thanks again...

Well, finally my 3200A is back up...took overnight to boot up...I tried 2 hours unplugged, but still "waiting"..So, I unplugged overnight and it booted up this AM...Now, Im affraid to move it back in my theater......the only thing I know to do is turn off the power switch and repeat the procedure......this new generation receivers shouldnt be so sensitive, or maybe mine is an exception..Thanks to everyones input...Fishman

These newest generation LG receivers (regardless of brand) seem to have some stability issues. I suspect, but can't confirm, that when yours went goofy, there was more to it than a simple power outage - you may well have been courting disaster with a line surge immediately preceeding the outage. I doubt that pulling the plug under normal circumstances will duplicate what you went through. I've done that with mine a couple of times with no problems. Don't be alarmed if your receiver exhibits an onscreen message to insert a valid access card when you reconnect (and be sure to reconnect the power cord ONLY AFTER you're reconnected ALL other cabling). If this happens, the "fix" is simple: just pull the access card for several seconds and reinsert it. After a second or two of black screen, audio and video will return normally. I don't recall ever experiencing this need to yank and reinsert the access card prior to completion of the P4/P5 swapout last month.

You should have no trouble shooting down the unit and then moveing it. Be sure to hook up the Sat In before you restore the power to the unit.

I've also found that putting a surge supressor/line conditioner between my Sony HD-300 and our house AC has cleaned up most of the glitchy behavior that my STB was exhibiting before I did this. Havent seen a "blink" or experienced an audio dropout since (and 2.0 didn't hurt either). It's a cheap fix for power line fluctuations and other noise inherent in the power source.

Rat: Thats EXACTLY the prompt I received"insert valid access card"...after pulling out the card and re-inserting, it began its scanning function...Odd thing about all this is the LD was plugged in a Panamax 5100 and the DTC 100 into a wall socket, yet, it survived a sucession of outages during a storm...When I look at the back of the LG, I see a flimset card compared to a heavier cord with 3 prongs on the DTC100. Theres no question these latest HD receivers are superior with DVI connections and so many display format modes, but, I cant help from thinking that some quality shortcuts has took place in keeping prices down..just picking up that DTC100 vs. the new ones is quite a dropoff.. My only other complaint is I get several(3 to 6) audio dropouts every evening...only rarely did I get those with the older DTC100..Hope they get these things worked out, as I enjoy it very much, esp. the RF feature...Thanks to all....

Ray...I apologize for calling you Rat...the "Y" key is, afterall next to the "T"..naturally, no intent here...Fish Head!

fishman,

Did your 3200A already have the 2.0 software? If not was the reboot maybe cause by the upgrade attempting? If you have 2.0, you are still getting that many audio drops?

Chris: If you are referring to a 5/12/2004 upgrade called HD3 2.0, then yes....This is what is listed in the upgrade section in my menu..I wasnt aware of this recent upgrade...maybe the dropout will be less than before, as I havent watch a lot of TV lately....I remember dropout bad earlier. Ill be watching this closely. I moved the set back to its original location and it booted up quickly... Thanks for your help>>> Fishman

Yes the 2.0 upgrade should have alleviated your audio dropouts. It has definately helped for me. I could previously reproduce drops by turning on and off my ceiling fan. Low turning on/off my ceiling fan does produce a quick flicker in the picture but it does not loose audio.

Chris, I'm curious what p/n board is in your unit?

I ask because I do still get dropouts with light switches, fans, etc. These dropouts are only on OTA and mostly with lower channels, 2.1 in particular. I have board p/n 6870R452HA, yes this is an early unit. The 2.0 firmware did fix a host of issues but not the dropout problem with OTA channels.

Actually I forgot about the issue showing up on lower OTA channels. I may have to test again with a couple more OTA channels.

I have an original October build unit (LG3200A).

Chris: I paid close attention last night and experience ZERO dropouts...Apparentlly the upgrade has fixed the problem...maybe the temp shutdown that occured was a "blessing" after all, as it needed to go out for a while for the upgrade to take affect..????

Originally posted by jasonblair
I love it that I can get the custom guide to stay up now...

THAT BEING SAID... one thing I like on my SD Hughes boxes is that when I pull up my "Surf" channel list, it will tell me at the top of the screen what show is on the channel I have highlighted. That way I can see what I want to watch before I select that channel. It's usually must faster than going through the guide, or even a favorites list. My HTL-HD doesn't do that..

This and the One Line feature...gawd I miss that. On the other tv's in the house , it's the SD Hughes boxes...go to the HD set and find myself pushing buttons that don't produce the same results. I wonder who the brainiac is that deleted these features from the set.

I have found on the HTL unit that if you have programed either Surf or Custom guides, that they will show up as a regular list which features upcoming programming as well as your current channel. When you go into the guide Hit the guide button a 2nd time and chose the guide you want "ALL" ' SURF or Custom" and next time you bring up your guide it will stick. If you just hit the Surf command on the remote it will only give you the grid box and you cannot tell what show is on or is coming up unless you chose your selection.

The fact that the new build has fixed this issue on the Listing portion only is a great help. :)

Tony,

I think most people were aware of the alternative guides w/listings. It's a big reason people were waiting for the upgrade because it now defaults to which ever guide you left it in (which it didn't before the upgrade). One thing I realized over the weekend is that the additional channel creep doesn't affect the "favorites" guide like it does the "custom" guide, so I just added all the channels I had in custom to favorites and leave it there as the default guide. Now I no longer have to look at unwanted shopping/PPV channels when viewing the guide listings/show descriptions. Even though I leave the APG at Favorites as the default guide, when scrolling up or down through the stations with the channel buttons it still gives you what ever happens to be in the custom guide at that time (good or bad). But at least I don't have to look at the junk channels when I'm using the guide itself so I feel a little better about it now...

BTW, SURF = Favorites on the Sony boxes

ron

Originally posted by Chris Loker
Actually I forgot about the issue showing up on lower OTA channels. I may have to test again with a couple more OTA channels.

I have an original October build unit (LG3200A).

I was hoping you had a later revision board and the 2.0 software actually fixed the dropout issue.

Here's something else to try, when on any OTA channel, try tapping a nickel or something metal about the same size on top of your LG box and see if you get a small pix-elation error accompanied with an audio dropout.

I checked and I still do get the audio drop on my PBS station (VHF channel 3) when cutting off my ceiling fan (spark interference previously mentioned). However, my other HD stations which are UHF 18 and up do not experience a drop any longer. I remember I could always reproduce it on my NBC (UHF 30) but could not get it to drop switching the fan on and off multiple times.

I am very pleased.

I can't do the tapping test as my unit is in a rack in a different room. I actually had tested that previously and even on the old revision it would not cause any drops.

After several days of having the 2.0 upgrade scheduled for my HD300 but never arriving, I decided to bypass my power & RG6 conditioner. The next morning the upgrade was running just fine. Did anyone else have this issue or was this a coincidence?

Got an HD300 (open box deal at Circuit City) on Sunday. FW Upgrade was in place by Monday evening.

mdm_boulder

Originally posted by fishman
Ray...I apologize for calling you Rat...the "Y" key is, afterall next to the "T"..naturally, no intent here...Fish Head!

Hee-hee-hee ;), no apology necessary. I realized when I read your reply this morning that you have the same kind of keyboard I have - one that can't spell! :D

(I only object to being called "illegitimate" and late for dinner...)

Has anybody noticed on the Sony 300 having problems with their RF Remote since upgrading? Did the option disappear from the menu?

the option did not dissapear, it seems the menu was made smarter. if the antenna is not plugged in you get only the IR config. i have the antenna plugged in so i do not get the IR config. menu says if i want to use IR to unplug the antenna.

Originally posted by showard594
the option did not dissapear, it seems the menu was made smarter. if the antenna is not plugged in you get only the IR config. i have the antenna plugged in so i do not get the IR config. menu says if i want to use IR to unplug the antenna.

It probably had to be done this way so that it would be easier to use the same firmware on the HTL-HD, which did not have the RF antenna input.

Did I miss this in the upgrade? I was just testing things and I think for the first time with my Sony and a Sammie DLP I can actually use all the format options (Variable 1, 2, Native, etc.). Before, with 1.6, I couldn't get Native, etc. Only 480i, 720p.

However, after experimenting with Native, I went back to 720p, since with Native, 420i goes to wide and can't be shrunk to 4:3. With 720p, you have the Wide/Normal/Pan, etc. options.

Purchased the Hughes HTL-HD last evening, had it up & running by 8pm w/ v 1.07 out-of-box.
I woke up this morning & 2.0 was installed.
I like this unit much better than my previous Samsung T160, which had very poor IR reception, lousy guide implementation and no direct access to digital local channels. The Hughes receives IR signals from a much wider range of angles, direct access to digital channels with the (-) button and I really like the SURF feature. The signal strength button (bottom right) is a great feature as well. I think the 720p-1080i conversion is a little better, and the SD channels look better as well.

Here is a link to another AVS Forum post that may be of interest to people here who may not have read it, but, with no intention to spam or post duplicate information.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=407815

I can see this topic (and others like it) is slowing down to a drizzle. I guess it is time to just enjoy what this line of stbs can do for us.

Soon the next big stb gadget will be announced and we can all start to anticipate, guess, praise, hate, or whatever.

Got this unit two days ago. The update was scheduled for 6/03/04. I left the unit off and looked the next morning and it had not taken the update. It was still scheduled for 6/03. Same thing last night except today it says update scheduled for 6/4 3:14 am. I have it hooked up to my tv via dvi. Is there any reason or anything that I am doing that is causing this unit not to take the update?

Thanks
Kenal0

Has anyone noticed that you cannot set the timer to record or switch to a program daily. The only options I see are weekly or once. Man my wife is sure going to hate not being able to get her soaps. I called sony and hughes and their Tech Support couldn't belive this function was included in these systems, even theri old SD boxes had this capability.

Who test these boxes before they ship...

Originally posted by Yogi55
Who test these boxes before they ship... [/B]

Apparently no one based on some of the issues we have seen ;)

And/or they wait to see who wants what features *after* the fact to see what needs to be added. I can't believe no one thought about the 'sticky' guide before 2.0... :)

(Yeah, never mind the absolute bugs...)

I have a Hughes HD-TL, with the 2.0 firmware. I've noticed that when you hide channels on the custom menu, not all stay "hid". If I power off the box, then power it back up, then some of the previously hidden channels have re-appeared; usually 5-10 that I have to go re-hide. Anyone else notice this?

enigma

What channels are reappearing? DirecTV has the bad behavior of removing channels and then adding them back in, which causes the receiver to display them as being new channels. Happens with my DirecTV DVRs as well. Mostly with shopping channels. :(

Does anyone still have DD2.0 dropouts over OTA?
I am in the SFO bay area, and still have the dropouts over OTA, for NBC 11.1, and NBC. 11.2

Anyone?
thanks

I've had only one dropout since the 2.0 download. And I think that was the station, not my box.

Originally posted by tivoboy
I am in the SFO bay area, and still have the dropouts over OTA, for NBC 11.1, and NBC. 11.2
I had a few dropouts this afternoon on 11.1 when watching the Belmont horse race. But my antenna points to Mt. Sutro, not San Jose, so I kind of expect the occasional glitch on KNTV. With most earlier STBs that I have had, I could not get this station at all! (The Sony HD200, which preceded my current HD300 and 3200A units, was the first one that could get this station reliably off "the backside of my antenna".)

Originally posted by Enigma
I have a Hughes HD-TL, with the 2.0 firmware. I've noticed that when you hide channels on the custom menu, not all stay "hid". If I power off the box, then power it back up, then some of the previously hidden channels have re-appeared; usually 5-10 that I have to go re-hide. Anyone else notice this?

enigma

Yes, with local OTA channels. After a power loss, which I've had a couple of the last few days due to thunderstorms, it seems to add OTA locals back to the list after a channel scan.
It doesnt happen after just a normal "on/off" however, only when AC power to the unit is disrupted.

Originally posted by Yogi55
Has anyone noticed that you cannot set the timer to record or switch to a program daily. The only options I see are weekly or once.

Yeah, Yogi, I'm frustrated at the lack of having the option of daily recording/timed channel change, too - and posted twice about this issue without so much as a yawn in response. Because of my wacko schedule, I'd love to be able to record, unattended, a 1/2 hour of the ABC local news, the CBS national news, and Leno on a daily basis. Apparently we're the only two owners who're bothered about this oversight, so don't expect a mad rush for another firmware update to address the issue. I really have to wonder what LG's software brainiacs were thinking during the design planning phase of this premium STB. Oh, well, LG got most of it right...

I would think a large majority of high-end users have a DirecTivo or other DVR for recording. That is probably why recording issues don't come up.

Originally posted by jdspencer
What channels are reappearing? DirecTV has the bad behavior of removing channels and then adding them back in, which causes the receiver to display them as being new channels. Happens with my DirecTV DVRs as well. Mostly with shopping channels. :(

Maybe that's what's happening to me. Interestingly, most are shopping channels!:o

enigma

First reset since V2 update happened yesterday and then again today. Both times it happened in the search menu of the guide. I enter a few characters, hit the search and bam! RESET.

I got the update the day it was first put out so not bad actually. I used to have 1 reset a week prior to the update.

One thing though, the hidden are not reset to unhidden upon reset power up. So I can be happy for that,,,, I guess.

The search does work, just so happens to be touchy.

Ok guys... here's a mind scrambler for you.

My brother just called me up and asked me what the deal was with this box. He is running the latest firmware on the Hughes HTL.. updated as of 5/12 I think. Anyway, he has the HD package from D* and is also receiving OTA digital channels via a roofmount antenna. Here's the weirdness.

If you tunes from a non-HD D* channel, say ESPN (206) and then tries to watch an OTA digital channel, he gets nothing. Nill. Signal strength in the teens or less, no matter which of the OTA digital stations he tunes to. Now, if he then tunes to a D* HD channel like ESPN-HD or Discover-HD and then re-tunes back to any of the OTA channels, it comes in crystal clear with signal strengths in the 60s to 80s. Any clue what is up with that? I have the Samsung TS160 and RCA DTC100 and I've never seen an issue like that. Anyone else seeing this or have a guess as to what it might be?

Thanks,
Jeff

Hey I just got a bunch of channels I deleted from my custom list.... back in my custom list.

Most of the shopping channels are back, as some have pointed out before. But some oddballs too. CBS West HD is back, but not CBS East HD (I'm not eligible for either).

What's up with this????????

Iceblade,

Your brother would happen to have one of those clip-on-dish type antennas would he? Similar to the kind made by Terk? If not, what type of antenna & amp setup does he have?

sonofjay,

Nope, it's a Winegard roof mounted. I don't believe that they are using any amp at all as he is only about 15-20 miles from the antenna farm. Like I said, very strange operation with signal strengths that toggle from nonexistant to 70's or so just by going to a D* HD channel first. Craziest thing I have ever heard. We went through about every permutation of channel combos we could last night and it always ended up that the only thing that could "kick the ATSC tuner into working" was to tune to a D* HD channel first and then back to OTA digital. As long as you kept selecting OTA digital channels the signal strength remains. The first time you select a D* SD channel and then try to go back to OTA, the signal strength is nill.

Later,
Jeff



Originally posted by sonofjay
Iceblade,

Your brother would happen to have one of those clip-on-dish type antennas would he? Similar to the kind made by Terk? If not, what type of antenna & amp setup does he have?

Originally posted by jdspencer
What channels are reappearing? DirecTV has the bad behavior of removing channels and then adding them back in, which causes the receiver to display them as being new channels. Happens with my DirecTV DVRs as well. Mostly with shopping channels. :(

Original Nasty-Gram Message:
-------------------------
DIRECTV FEEDBACK MESSAGE

To: Direct TV
[Topic Selected: Technical]

Subject: Forcing Garbage Channels On Me

Details: I have a LG3200 HDTV Direct TV receiver. It is programmed to
watch only a few channels as the rest DO NOT interest me.

Why does Direct TV keep on sending daily signals to keep on "showing"
garbage channels (shopping) that I have set to be "hidden"?

If this daily "fight" continues then I will drop my service.

If you in tech support cannot stop this un-wanted action yourself, then
give me the email address of the supervisor who can.


********************* Direct TV Reply

Dear Subscriber,

Thank you for asking us about channel additions that appear on your
personalized channel lists. As you are aware, channels that you have not
personally selected do occasionally appear. These channels only display
special programming, such as sporting or Freeview events, during the
time the event is being broadcast. This allows our customers to know
about a new event that they otherwise might have missed.

Unfortunately, current technology does not allow us to block individual
customers from receiving these channel additions. Fortunately, these
channel additions are temporary and will disappear from your programming
lineup once an event ends. If you do not want to wait for the channel to
disappear automatically, you can manually remove it by using the Locks
and Limits feature located on your system menu [INSERT: THIS IS A LIE]. You'll find more
information on Locks and Limits features in your owner's manual. And for
your convenience, copies of most owner's manuals are available on our
web site at DIRECTV.com/manuals

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience these automatic additions
may be causing you.
Thank you for your patience.

Sincerely,

Anjali
DIRECTV Customer Service

Does the "one touch" recording features work on the NTSC / Cable channels that appear in the guide?

Peace,

DM

I just got my new 50" Samsung DLP set and am looking for the best available Directv HDTV tuner. Based on my quick review of the posts here, it appears that folks are pretty disappointed with almost all of them.

My question is this....

What Directv tuner do you really think is the absolute best? I currently have Sony Directv receivers and really like the GUI, which leads me to believe that sticking with Sony might be the best option for HDTV, however it looks like problems exist with the 300. Additionally, it seems like the Sony is pretty consistely priced around $500 which makes me wonder if I should just get the new Hughes HDTV with TIVO for $999 (assuming I can get my hands on one) or try to get an "open box" sony from a retailer.

Please let me know which tuner you would suggest.

Thanks.

I think right now the best option is going with one the LG clones (LG, Sony and Hughes). Except for the HDTivo that is but it still is very pricey.

The Sony HD-300 has the exact same user interface as the Hughest HTL-HD and the LG 3200A. They are actually all 3 LG 3200A but with subtle differences.

The Sony model has one button on the remote the others don't and that is an output mode button which allows you to switch from 480p/720p/1080i mode via the remote. However, I don't see a real need for the button since all the boxes have variable modes that allow you to set the box to change resolutions automatically dependant on the source.

LG would then be considered mid-line. Doesn't have that one button on the remote - all the rest pretty much exactly the same.

The Hughes can be found for the best price. With the Hughes you loose the RF remote function (IR only). However, that is the only real difference vs. the LG.

I have the LG 3200A and have had no problems with it since the last firmware upgrade. Be carefull looking at postings on the Sony, LG, Hughes as most comments are prior to the firmware update.

If you are a new subscriber the Hughes HTL-HD version should be about $299. If you are a current subscriber you should call DirecTV customer retention and you should be able to get it for less than that.

< I don't see a real need for the button since all the boxes have variable modes that allow you to set the box to change resolutions automatically dependant on the source.>

Chris- I was having trouble with variable output setting on my LG3200 , connected component to a sunfire tg4 processor, out to a marantz vp12s3 projector. (scrambled/distorted signals everytime hd tv show went to non-HD commercial)
I called my vendor (Value Electronics), and they told me to use "native" output, not variable.
That made it better when switching to commercials and back, but still had scrambling of HD signals during the HD broadcast itself (Lakers/Pistons game)

The problem went away when I switched to DVI output to gefen switch directly to projector.

Can you comment on why such a poor experience using variable output from LG3200?

Thanks for your advice,
Barry

Native is still a variable output option. Native sends 480i as 480i / 480p as 480p / 720p as 720p / 1080i as 1080i. Everything exactly in the manner in which it comes in.

The variable modes allow you to drop resolutions you don't want and converts all 480i to 480p. So if you have a televsions that doesn't support 720p input, you can set the variable mode that sends 480i as 480p / 480p as 480p / 720p as 1080i / 1080i as 1080i.

As you can see, moving to native mode at most probably just kept the box from converting 480i to 480p. It seems strange in that it sounds like you are saying your station would switch between HD and SD on the fly when commercials would come on. I have never heard of that being the case. Normally all commercials (and all other SD programming on a channel) are upconverted to an HD resolution if mixed with HD programming.

Your problem does sound very strange. I have never experienced any such problem or heard of it. In your case it was probably best just to set it to straight 1080i all the time (or 720p). I assume maybe it is set that way with your DVI output (what setting do you have your DVI on).

Chris- thanks for the info.

It's tough to trouble shoot that problem, as it could be either from the lga component out, the sunfire component in or out, or the marantz component in. Other sources using component don't have the same problem, though.

My dvi output is at 720P according to the front display of the lg3200.

thanks again,
Barry

What signal level do I need for my HTL-HD to lock on an OTA station?
I get 89 for ch 4, 21 for ch 7, 71 for ch 8, and 73 for ch 42. Obviously, channel 7 won't lock on. I'm using a Channel Master 3016 antenna with a RS 26dB amp. All stations are in the same direction about 9 miles away, but I have a hill in between. I'm thinking that the station has gone to a lower power output, because at one time I did have sufficient signal for a lock. This isn't really a problem yet because this station (CBS) hasn't gone HD. I'm currently pointing right through a neighbor's tree which I thought was causing this as it has leafed out more. I moved the antenna temporarily for a test, same results. I've emailed the station to see what they say about their power output.

I get a fairly decent lock as long as it is not in the POOR (lower 1/3) section on the popup signal meter.

I am thinking of switching from *E to *D. I currently have a Dish 6000 and wondered how it compared to the Hughes receiver. I've read tons of threads and they all seem to deal with bugs on early firmwares, so I thought I'd just ask.

Does the Hughes HTL-HD allow aspect corrections on HD signals? I really prefer to filll my screen rather than have black bars. And are the stretch modes any good? The partial zoom on the 6000 is really outstanding. Much better than what TNT-HD is doing to their signal.

My tv only has component inputs -- does the Hughes put out a good component picture? Will it output all signals at 1080i?

Finally, does the HTL-HD have caller ID (important for the wife.)

Thanks.

Brian

The HTL-HD allows aspect correction. You can stretch screen to remove black bars or even shrink to bring a stretched HD signal back to 4:3.

The stretch modes are not bad - but are only available if you upconvert SD programming (i.e. if you use native or variable mode that puts out 480 at 480 lines you don't have stretch modes). It will upconvert all to 1080i if you want and then you get a lot of stretch modes.

Component output is good.

No caller id.

Thanks, Chris.

I posted this a couple pages back, but since a number of people have complained about the problem since then, I'll mention it again.

If you are tired of the unwanted channels appearing in your "custom" guide just use the "favorites" guide instead. I found that due to the way the guides are set up the Favorites guide is not susceptible to the channel creep like the Custom guide is. With the custom guide you start out with all the channels showing and hide those you don't want, so when a "new" channel is added (or "re-added" like the shopping channels seem to be once a day or so :rolleyes: ), it is seen as fresh and will show up until you hide it. It's the opposite with the favorites guide in that you start out with no channels and actually build it by adding each channel individually. Since new channels have not been "picked" by you they never show up. Just designate the channels you want as favorites and leave the Favorites guide as your default and you'll have no more unwanted BS to deal with.

It's not a perfect solution because when just scrolling up and down through the channels using the channel up/down buttons it still follows the list from the "Custom" guide (I'd imagine this is something that could be addressed via firmware just like the guide default was). But at least you don't have to look at the junk channels when using the APG. I haven't had to look at any unwanted channels in the guide for a long time now and I don't miss 'em one bit :D.

ron

I have looked around but have not seen this bug/feature posted anywhere. If I missed it being discussed, I apologize. I find it hard to believe no one has mentioned it.

I have noticed since the 2.0 upgrade there is a way to "trick" my HTL-HD into switching output resolutions from 1080i to 480i and back without having to use the format button on the receiver(since there is no such button on the remote). Simply switch to a SD channel, go into the guide then change to a HD channel from within the guide by going all the way to the leftmost box that contains the channel #. Wait for the channel to change in the preview box then exit the guide. It sticks in 480i mode. It will stay that way until you change channels normally. It also works the opposite way for "sticking" to 1080i.

This is great if you have a 4:3 TV like me and like to fill the whole screen when viewing local channels that have bars on the sides.

I don't know if this is a bug or a feature but I'm treating it like a feature. One less reason to get off the couch!

Ben

Anyone know if D* is still transmitting the 2.0 update? I just purchased another HTL-HD today and hope I'm not stuck with the old software.

Yes. D* will be sending 2.0 update tonight.

Thanks very much. I activated the HTL-HD with D* last night, and as you said, the update came through at 3:14 AM this morning. I hope that this final addition will take care of our STB needs for a long time. We are very happy with the performance of the HTL-HD and SAT-HD300 LG units, especially after the helpful upgrade.

Bennywan, your discovery sounds very interesting. My new HTL-HD is going to be used with a 32" 4:3 Sony KV-32HS510 (CC closeout) which will be delivered Wednesday. This is our first 4:3 HDTV, so this idea is very timely and helpful.

Bennywan, can't you just hit th ratio button to stretch out the black bars for your local programming. That works when the box is in 1080i mode. Just questioning your reason for needing to switch to 480i mode.

I have the Sony 300 and received the 2.0 upgrade mid May. For
a period of time the sound drop offs were fixed - but now it's back
with a vengeance.

Was I worng to thing that the upgrade was supposed to fix the
sound drop outs?

No you are not entirely wrong. The sound dropouts were fixed for the most part but I do ocassionally experience drops. Its about 97% better now than it was before the 2.0 upgrade.

Which revision hardware do you have? If its A or B then that may be the source of your issues. I have 4 x HD300's Rev C and all are acceptable as far as I'm concerned.

I also have several different model RCA SD boxes and they too ocassionally get dropouts. I think D* has some issues with the timing/sync of their signals.

At this point I can't get to the top of the unit to peek
through the vents. but it's date is September 2003
which I think is more likely to be a rev A/B. Does Sony
actually acknowledge the problem and exchange receivers
or is it more of a "buyer beware" affair?

Thanks

I just bought a new Hughes HTL-HD on Saturday (6/19) and it came with version 1.10 on it. That night it tried to download the 2.0 upgrade, and got stuck at 61%, like several people experienced when the upgrade was rolled out and was discussed earlier in this thread. So, I left it on for the next night, and nothing changed. So I unplugged everything from the unit and left it set during the day while I was at work. That evening, I plugged everything back in and the display said "System Verification Check" (or something like that) and said to unplug for 30 seconds and plug back in, or wait for a new software download from the satelite, or call Hughes CS. I left it on this screen (not that there was anything else I could do) and that night it downloaded the 2.0 upgrade and this time it took. So, if anyone else experiences the lockup, just unplug it, plug it back in, and wait for the next nightly download and hopefully you'll be OK.

--Andrew

Is this upgrade a regularly occurring event? I also just got an HTL-HD with firmware 1.10. Will it just download it at night when I turn it off?

Brian

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BrianC
[B]Is this upgrade a regularly occurring event? I also just got an HTL-HD with firmware 1.10. Will it just download it at night when I turn it off?

yes

Thank you, bearmur. I'm already glad I switched to *D based on the quality of the receiver vs. my Dish 6000 (feature-wise, anyway.)

Brian

Can I upgrade the firmware on the Hughes HTL-HD if I don't subscribe to DTV? Currently I just use an outside antenna on my roof which gets great reception. I don't plan on subscribing to cable or satellite anytime in the near future so what do I do if I get the Hughes STB that has an older firmware version on it?

Scott

The only way to do it is to take the STB to someone's house who has a DirecTV dish properly set up and aligned. Then you power up the box and wait for the next download. AFAIK, you don't need to "activate" the box with DirecTV to get the updates.

I believe the only two ways to get the upgrade are via a properly aimed Sat Dish or to ship it into Hughes/Sony/LG.

Well damn! That's what I was afraid of. It's bad enough that one has to pay a "penalty" if they don't signup for DTV service within the first 30 days or so of purchasing the box and now it appears that you have to jump over hoops to get the upgrade as well. I guess that's the sign of the times. I suppose if I wait until September or October the chances of getting a box with the 2.0 upgrade are better. Does anyone know of a good STB that has DVI out, TV out (so as to record to a VCR or view thru the NTSC tuner via the tv or VCR) and possibly a few other features that I can't think of right now? Of course this would have to be OTR only. I tested the Samsung 360 just to see if I could get digital and it looked really good only I didn't like the fact that there was no TV out. BTW, the new tv will be a Sony KV32HS510.

Scott

The LG LST-3100A is the non-directv version of the Hughes/Sony/LG. That is what you want.

Thanks Chris. That appears to be exactly what I am looking for. I do have another question so please bear with me as I am still learning this. The question may be kinda long so would it be best to ask here or would an email be more appropriate? Thanks.

Scott

Hi, here is what I though:

From BB

1. SIRTS360 $299
2. Oval dish $90
3. OTA $50
4. Self Install
5. Switch + cable $80

Total $520

From D*

1. HD Package $350
2. install + Dish + cable + switch + OTA (included)
3. Roof OTA $60
4. Discount Deal - $150
5. Penalty for cancel $130

Total $390

I'll go with D*, then cancel anytime and accept the panalty for $130. Equipment is mine.

I'll

If it is about the 3100A you'd be best to post in a thread concerning it. Do a search.

Scott, you must have a friend, neighbor, or co-worker with DirecTV. Surely you could request permission to attach your box to his dish overnight - this isn't rocket science. Once connected, slide the access card in and set to channel 101. That'll be an in-the-clear "barker" channel extolling the virtues of DirecTV. Once you know that the box is properly receivng off the dish, it matters not whether you turn the receiver off or not. It'll take the download automatically at 4:14 A.M. EDT. If you really don't have anyone who's able or willing to help you out, I'll bet any independent installer would for free or a nominal fee if you deliver your box to his shop and explain what you need.

Just got the HTL-HD (1.10) and system upgrade has not been detected by the receiver. When does Directv usually send it out?

Check RAY H's post above.

Originally posted by bearmur
Check RAY H's post above.

Not that simple. The last recevier I bought, it detected the next system upgrade right away. After I activated it.

But, with the HTL-HD. The next upgrade field is still blank after my activation.

Since about the time I rcv'd 2.0 upgrade, my Favorite Channels screen won't hold two of my OTA HD channels. These OTA channels are marked as favorites in my fav/show/hide grid, and I can go through the "Ch. can be added" routine to add the OTA channel to an empty box in the Favorite Channels screen. The channel shows as added but upon exiting the Favorite Channels screen, upon the next return (push round "favorite" button on remote), the OTA HD channel is not there -- the box is empty.

Previously, I could not only add OTA HD channels to Favorite Channels screen, but the HD-300 would insert the channel logo (in this case, ABC and CBS). Now I have 2 local OTA HD that map with network logo (WB, Fox) and two that map with channel number (9.1 and 6.1) and two that won't hold on the Fav. Channels screen (CBS, ABC).

Troubleshooting: I can add DirecTV's local channels (for Denver, not HD of course) and they map instantly to the Favorite Channels screen and the network logo appears. So I know the HD-300 will assign favorites and can recognize network logos, at least from DirecTV.

Any suggestions? Thanks for any help.

My HD 200 had that problem of not holding favorite channels. After unplugging power and plugging back up then putting favorite channels in again it worked.

After unplugging power and plugging back up then putting favorite channels in again it worked.

I'll try it.

I assume the Reset button would wipe out stored channels and also the fav/hide selections -- about a 30 min. effort to get all this back in the unit. The power off/on is worth a try. Thanks.

The on/off suggested by bearmur worked.

Does anyone know how the network logo gets substituted in fhe Fav Screens for the channel number? Sometimes over several days this comes and goes, or it takes a day or two for the logo to appear?

I also noticed the not-saving-favorite issue after the 2.0 upgrade, in my case it was only for the local NBC channel, for which D* just recently started providing guide data. I thought there was maybe some correlation there. My HTL-HD is on a shelf in the laundry room since it doesn't record HD like the HDTivo does, maybe I'll check if unplugging it fixed this issue if I ever plug it in again.

So has the audio drop out been fixed with the new firmware or not? I am just about to get an HD Rx and cant decide between the samsung sir-ts360 and the hughes.

I have not had any noticable audio drops.

Does the new firmware upgrade has a new option for OTA signal meter for the HTL-HD? if so, how do I access it?

I believe it is the PAUSE button on the remote

Thanks Ray. Unfortunately everyone around us has either cable or Dish. Chris recommended the LG LST-3100A so that's probably the way we will go.

Originally posted by Chris Loker
I believe it is the PAUSE button on the remote

Thanks for your help, Chris.

Does anyone have a .ccf (Pronto) file or .mxd (HTM) file for the HTL-HD remote that I could get them to e-mail to me?

I'm particular interested in the "Format" button.

I've found the hex files over at Remote Central but I know nothing of using hex files.

Thanks!

Regarding Pronto, I could provide a home designed PCF file for the Pronto TSU7000 for Sony HD300 codes. Regarding the "Format" button, I just learned it from the Sony remote, which I am quite confident you may do as well.

Regarding the HD300, recently (after the upgrade to 2.0) a few days ago my two remotes (both my Pronto and the original Sony) would not work. It required a HD300 system reset, which means that 2.0 still has some serious bugs.

If I can get the "Format" button from any .ccf file then I can convert it and use it in my MX-700.

I have the HTL-HD but I'm not sure if the it will accept the Sony codes though.

I think all 3 boxes have completely different IR codes.

i haven't read anything here on who has the best pricing on the sony hd300 or lg 3200 receivers right now. any advice on shopping them?
thanks.

I have never seen big deals on either receiver. The Hughes version is the cheap one. ********************* is a good place for the LG (where I got mine).

The HD300 has been discontinued. I'm not even sure if you can buy it new anymore.

The HD 300 is stll available at crutchfield.

i've read something recently that mentioned directv will be the only one selling directv receivers in the near future. the article made a point to say that if you don't want a basic model reciever, get out now and buy the step up models before they're gone (ie sony hd300 or lg lss3200).

opinions?

I have a Hughes HTL-HD but I do not have the signal strength meter. From what I understand I must hook it up to a Satellite to get it. Do I have to activate in order to download ( I have access to a dual lnb directtv dish but not a hd dish)? Also does anyone know when the next time the software for the latest version will be available? What time of day does the software normally download?
tia,
Ron

ellisr63, you do NOT have to activate your receiver in order to obtain the firmware update. The dual LNB dish will work fine since the firmware update is transmitted from the core programming slot at 101W. (all DirecTV dishes receive that slot) As you stated, your receiver will have to be connected to a properly aimed dish antenna, and insert the access card into its slot (MUST be a P4 or above card, all earlier ones, P1-P3, will no longer work at all. Period!). The download will commence at 1:14 A.M. P.D.T. Unsure how often, now. You can leave the receiver on or off - makes no difference, but leave it tuned to a satellite, not OTA, signal. Simplest to tune the DirecTV "barker" channel 201 that's always in the clear, card activated or not. The latest firmware update version is "HD3 2.00.00". The signal quality onscreen "meter" is accessed by pushing the remote's "Pause" button while in the "Sat" mode. You definitely have the satellite signal quality meter already. The firmware update adds OTA capability to the meter. Subsequent to the 1st firmware version, two interim firmware updates installed at the factory on receivers manufactured after November, 2003 also had the OTA signal quality meter. You might want to double check whether you really don't have the OTA signal quality meter capability already.

Ray,
Thanks for the info. I believe when I checked last time I had a firmware of 1.3 or 1.6. I will hook my receiver up to my friends dish and hopefully I will get the OTA signal strength meter:-) .
RonOriginally posted by Ray H
ellisr63, you do NOT have to activate your receiver in order to obtain the firmware update. The dual LNB dish will work fine since the firmware update is transmitted from the core programming slot at 101W. (all DirecTV dishes receive that slot) As you stated, your receiver will have to be connected to a properly aimed dish antenna, and insert the access card into its slot (MUST be a P4 or above card, all earlier ones, P1-P3, will no longer work at all. Period!). The download will commence at 1:14 A.M. P.D.T. Unsure how often, now. You can leave the receiver on or off - makes no difference, but leave it tuned to a satellite, not OTA, signal. Simplest to tune the DirecTV "barker" channel 201 that's always in the clear, card activated or not. The latest firmware update version is "HD3 2.00.00". The signal quality onscreen "meter" is accessed by pushing the remote's "Pause" button while in the "Sat" mode. You definitely have the satellite signal quality meter already. The firmware update adds OTA capability to the meter. Subsequent to the 1st firmware version, two interim firmware updates installed at the factory on receivers manufactured after November, 2003 also had the OTA signal quality meter. You might want to double check whether you really don't have the OTA signal quality meter capability already.

I have a problem with my HD300. On certain channels it gets this high pitched buzzing sound. I can switch to other channels and it stops and then go back to the previous channel that was buzzing and sometimes it quits but not always. It has version 2.0 on it. I thought it was a ground problem but it only happens on certain channels. Any thoughts? I also tried different cables to no avail.

Sounds like a defective receiver.

Hi,

I'm thinking of purchasing an HTL-HD tonight to replace my Sony HD200 (which will be relocated to the bedroom). Is D* still sending out the 2.0 upgrade? Somewhere in this long thread someone said that the update will be sent through 6/30/04. If the update is still being sent, it is still nightly? I just don't want to be one of those unlucky folks with a unit that's stuck in the middle of an update.

Also, how do you get to the menu that shows that the new update is pending? Could not find it in this thread.

thanks,

Joe

yes, they still send it at 4:14am

Originally posted by jcardani
[BAlso, how do you get to the menu that shows that the new update is pending? [/B] You probably have found it by now, but for those who may still need to know.
The Update status can be found by pressing Menu and selecting System then System Info and then System Upgrade.

thanks everyone,

Got the update OK last night.

Joe

Originally posted by Chris Loker
I think right now the best option is going with one the LG clones (LG, Sony and Hughes). Except for the HDTivo that is but it still is very pricey.

The Sony HD-300 has the exact same user interface as the Hughest HTL-HD and the LG 3200A. They are actually all 3 LG 3200A but with subtle differences.

The Sony model has one button on the remote the others don't and that is an output mode button which allows you to switch from 480p/720p/1080i mode via the remote. However, I don't see a real need for the button since all the boxes have variable modes that allow you to set the box to change resolutions automatically dependant on the source.

LG would then be considered mid-line. Doesn't have that one button on the remote - all the rest pretty much exactly the same.

The Hughes can be found for the best price. With the Hughes you loose the RF remote function (IR only). However, that is the only real difference vs. the LG.

I have the LG 3200A and have had no problems with it since the last firmware upgrade. Be carefull looking at postings on the Sony, LG, Hughes as most comments are prior to the firmware update.

If you are a new subscriber the Hughes HTL-HD version should be about $299. If you are a current subscriber you should call DirecTV customer retention and you should be able to get it for less than that.

A quick question on the LG-3200A. If I use the DVI connection (DVI on the LG and DVI on my Sony GWIII), the native mode will pass 1080i signals in 16x9 format and 480i signals in a 4x3 format (with vertical bars). Is this right? I do not want SD programming to fill the screen. Until I read the post above, I was under the impression that the format button on the Sony SAT-HD300 was an essential feature. Thanks.

On the LG3200A what you are talking about is the ratio button. You can show the station added grey bars (normal) , add grey bars on 4:3 (Squeeze), or stretch the grey bars off the side (stretch).

The button missing is the format button and all it does is switch between 1080i, 720p, 480i/p - not ratio control. I think a lot of people misunderstand this. And the missing button really is not needed since the box will automatically adjust the resolutions the way you set it.

Roy,

That should work as you described. I have a Sony SAT-HD300 that is connected to my GW-III (70XBR950) with DVI. The "NATIVE" mode automatically changes to "AUTO DVI" any time the TV is on. The "AUTO DVI" mode supposedly allows the TV to control the format output by the SAT-HD300.

The "AUTO DVI" mode with the GW-III results in all formats being native, except that all 480 signals are output in interlaced mode. In manually selecting 480p mode, I have found that the picture quality, in all cases, was better in 480i mode than in 480p. So I leave mine set to "AUTO DVI" all the time.

And yes, the TV will show the picture in the correct aspect ratio as long as it is set to the "Normal" wide mode when watching 480i 4x3 material. The TV will then automatically switch to "Full" any time properly formatted widescreen material is available, including anamorphic DVDs.

a friend has access to a new lg lss3200 locally for $299 less a future $200 directv credit when activated. he knows they'll be sold out soon where he'll buy it, plus he understands they're not made anymore. what do you think of his buying it and using it as a non-hd receiver for a while before he gets the hd tv later this year or early next year? it will work non-hd, correct? he really could use the rf remote option with it, which is why he's thinking of buying it early.

thanks for your opinion,
r

Works great as a non-HD receiver. I actually have mine hooked to my HD plasma and my standard TV in the basement.

Actually - since you can get the HD package for free right now for 6 months then he should add that as well. You then get the 4 HD channels and the 3200A will down-rez them to output to the standard TV as well.

Chris, KC-Technerd, thanks for clearing that up for me. The LG-3200A appears to be just what I am looking for.