Tallahassee, FL - HDTV [Text View] - Page 15

dsmith901

09-23-08, 10:41 AM

I live in Jax but was tailgating in Tallahassee before the game this week and instead of setting up my DirecTV I tried using a pair of RCA rabbit ears to try and pick up local HD signals. When I ran my tv's "auto scan" for air channels I could only pick up WFSU in HD and everything else came in as snowy analog. Should I have had an issue picking up at least the local CBS channel?

I may be wrong but didn't one of the engineers posting here say that all the local digital stations are broadcasting at low power right now (maybe FSU excepted)? If so it is probably just enough to get on Comcast in HD. Presumably next February they should all be going to full power.

BTW, did everyone here see this:

http://www.cepro.com/article/the_dtv_transitions_dirty_little_secret/

Check the link (pdf) for Tallahassee stations and note that WCTV is listed as a Thomasville, GA station, not a Tallahassee station. Most locals do not realize that WCTV has been a Thomasville, not Tallahassee, station from inception.

ClarenceR

09-23-08, 10:59 AM

I may be wrong but didn't one of the engineers posting here say that all the local digital stations are broadcasting at low power right now (maybe FSU excepted)? If so it is probably just enough to get on Comcast in HD. Presumably next February they should all be going to full power.

Actually WCTV is operating, or supposed to be, operating at 1000 kW. The only low-powered pre-transition stations are WTXL and WTWC.

BTW, did everyone here see this:

http://www.cepro.com/article/the_dtv_transitions_dirty_little_secret/

Check the link (pdf) for Tallahassee stations and note that WCTV is listed as a Thomasville, GA station, not a Tallahassee station. Most locals do not realize that WCTV has been a Thomasville, not Tallahassee, station from inception.
Thomasville is listed as the City of License (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_license) for WCTV in the Tallahassee-Thomasville DMA (designated market area). The transmitter is in Metcalf, GA.

I can get a signal from WCTV here in Valdosta about 45 miles away from the transmitter.

It could be possible that there are issues of WCTV's signal between Doak Campbell Stadium and Metcalf such as terrain.

ClarenceR

09-23-08, 11:16 AM

On another note about WCTV, I think their digital signal is completely out OTA and here on Mediacom QAM.

EDIT: WCTV-DT is back up.

dsmith901

09-26-08, 11:33 AM

Actually
Thomasville is listed as the City of License (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_license) for WCTV in the Tallahassee-Thomasville DMA (designated market area). The transmitter is in Metcalf, GA.

Yes, as I said, most people who did not grow up in Tallahassee in the 50's would be surprised to find WCTV is actually a Georgia station that just also services Tallahassee. It started out as an NBC affiliate and later switched to CBS around 1958 or therabouts.

ClarenceR

09-26-08, 02:27 PM

Yes, as I said, most people who did not grow up in Tallahassee in the 50's would be surprised to find WCTV is actually a Georgia station that just also services Tallahassee. It started out as an NBC affiliate and later switched to CBS around 1958 or therabouts.
Yes, but other than that do the references to Thomasville give any negative impact to Tallahassee-area viewers?

dsmith901

09-27-08, 01:30 PM

Yes, but other than that do the references to Thomasville give any negative impact to Tallahassee-area viewers?

Probably not, other than perhaps that in order to keep their license they have to cover lots of Georgia news and events that a Tallahassee licensed station would probably not. I know for years when WCTV was the ONLY local commercial TV station it used to drive me up the wall the way they spent so much time covering news of Thomasville and south Georgia that was of zero interest to me and most Tallahasseans.

dsmith901

09-27-08, 01:37 PM

A few months back I asked this question and got no response but thought I might try again. Does anyone (especially our participating engineers) know what will happen with the current "analog" channels on Comcast come next February? I know they will still be available to Comcast customers, but will they still be received and processed in the analog domain? The reason I ask is that right now all my analog channels have a lot of anlog noise in them, even when using the digital tuner instead of my TV NTSC tuner. If all these channels are received, processed and transmitted digitally I would expect all that noise to go away, but not if Comcast just keeps what they are doing. The CW channel in particular is just plain crap in terms of PQ, and it is supposed to be an all digital signal to the Comcast. But somehow that digital signal turns into analog crap when they send it to viewers as channel 6 (the worst channel to use anyway). I know it will be decades before we see CW in HD (if ever) but I would hope that at least they could receive and transmit that network without turning it into pure video manure. And please, get rid of all the video noise on all the previous analog channels once they go "digital."

That's my rant for the day.

ClarenceR

09-27-08, 03:13 PM

Probably not, other than perhaps that in order to keep their license they have to cover lots of Georgia news and events that a Tallahassee licensed station would probably not. I know for years when WCTV was the ONLY local commercial TV station it used to drive me up the wall the way they spent so much time covering news of Thomasville and south Georgia that was of zero interest to me and most Tallahasseans.
The same can be said regarding Tallahassee news and sports (otherwise known as FSU worship :p) from the other side. That complaint just seems petty, even more so now that there is Internet access to various news sources.

I'm far away from any happenings from either Thomasville or Tallahassee but I'd take whatever information comes from news sources. I just couldn't justify being angry because a TV station in a relatively diverse market covers interests other than my own.

dsmith901

09-29-08, 09:37 AM

The same can be said regarding Tallahassee news and sports (otherwise known as FSU worship :p) from the other side. That complaint just seems petty, even more so now that there is Internet access to various news sources.

I'm far away from any happenings from either Thomasville or Tallahassee but I'd take whatever information comes from news sources. I just couldn't justify being angry because a TV station in a relatively diverse market covers interests other than my own.

WTF! I don't know who you are or why you are jumping on my comments, but back the hell off!!!

HAMCO

10-02-08, 02:49 PM

Alan Gordon

10-02-08, 03:27 PM

The DIRECTV website is listing December 2008 as the available date for Tallahassee HD locals. There is no mention of the actual stations to be uplinked. I assume it would be the 4 major networks (ABC,CBS,NBC,FOX) and hopefully PBS and maybe some of the smaller networks on the sub-channels. I first noticed this on the DBS Talk website.

DirecTV tries to provide the four main networks, but that doesn't mean they will all be available in December.

As for PBS, some markets get PBS in HD, most don't. DirecTV made a deal with PBS, but they have yet to go back and add PBS in HD to the MAJORITY of their HD markets.

As for mini-majors on the sub-channels, DirecTV may decide to use 49-2 (instead of 24-1) as their source for WTLF next Monday (the day DirecTV and Dish Network switch from using the analog signals to the digital signals for their SD-LIL feeds in Tallahassee)... but since WTLF-DT is only SD, there really is no need for DirecTV to offer anything but the digital feed. As for MyNetworkTV, I wouldn't hold my breath, but it's possible that Gray may demand DirecTV add it if DirecTV wants to use WCTV's HD feed.

~Alan

dsmith901

10-08-08, 10:00 AM

DirecTV tries to provide the four main networks, but that doesn't mean they will all be available in December.

As for PBS, some markets get PBS in HD, most don't. DirecTV made a deal with PBS, but they have yet to go back and add PBS in HD to the MAJORITY of their HD markets.

As for mini-majors on the sub-channels, DirecTV may decide to use 49-2 (instead of 24-1) as their source for WTLF next Monday (the day DirecTV and Dish Network switch from using the analog signals to the digital signals for their SD-LIL feeds in Tallahassee)... but since WTLF-DT is only SD, there really is no need for DirecTV to offer anything but the digital feed. As for MyNetworkTV, I wouldn't hold my breath, but it's possible that Gray may demand DirecTV add it if DirecTV wants to use WCTV's HD feed.

~Alan

I was about to ask if either satellite provider offers the CW channel in HD but I guess you answered my question. I understand that WTLF broadcasts in 480i, the lowest possible resolution, and no doubt at the lowest possible bandwidth required to get a signal on the air. I get CW on Comcast and notice that PQ varies depending on the show. Ironically, the one show I know for sure is produced in HD (Smallville) has the worst PQ on Comcast. Does anyone get WTLF OTA right now and if so can they compare it's PQ to what Comcast provides it's customers on that channel.

Trip in VA

10-08-08, 01:38 PM

WTLF airs CW+ which is basically a pre-packaged satellite feed that comes preloaded with syndication and advertising and whatnot. As I understand it, this service was designed for analog cable and expanded to SD subchannels, is only available in SD, and will continue to only be available in SD for the forseeable future.

CW+ is available mainly in markets smaller than the top 100.

- Trip

HAMCO

10-08-08, 06:18 PM

Doesn anyone know the future status of WFXU channel 57-1 (actual channel 48)? They have been broadcasting in digital for several weeks, but are just showing the same 2 or 3 programs over and over. The broadcast tower is here in Hamilton County, although the station lists Live Oak as it's home address. The former analog version of this station was terrible when used as a repeater for FOX,WB,etc. I hope this new digital version will soon have some kind of decent network or independent affiliation. We are really starved for OTA broadcasts in this area.

Neil Griffin

10-09-08, 08:07 PM

They are now owned by Budd Broadcasting (WGFL/WNBW) and have applied to move to a tower site near High Springs, which would make them a Gainesville station.

dsmith901

10-11-08, 04:58 PM

dsmith901

10-11-08, 05:05 PM

dsmith901

10-15-08, 10:43 PM

Well, either John Clark saw my post above or someone else noticed the audio problem because tonight on Pushing Daisies the rear surrounds were much tamer and probably at the proper level, and even though the L/R channels were still a little hot for my taste I could hear dialogue in the center much better than before. So, to whoever or whatever is responsible, thanks. But the real test will be Ugly Betty tomorrow night - that show has the loudest and most active surround music of anything I have ever seen.

ClarenceR

10-15-08, 11:48 PM

dsmith901

10-16-08, 10:00 AM

Well, if someone at WTXL reads this thread, then:

Could someone please look into the lack of Closed Captions on WTXL-DT (I'm watching via Mediacom Valdosta) during primetime? The captions only come up during commercials and news promos but not from the main program.

I have never been able to see captions (subtitles) on any digital channel through Comcast's HD DVR. I can see them when I switch to my TV tuner on analog channels. But I don't know why captions don't show on digital channels, where if anything they should be easier to implement(?). John Clark is an engineer at WTXL and used to visit here but have not seen him around lately.

ClarenceR

10-16-08, 03:26 PM

I have never been able to see captions (subtitles) on any digital channel through Comcast's HD DVR. I can see them when I switch to my TV tuner on analog channels. But I don't know why captions don't show on digital channels, where if anything they should be easier to implement(?). John Clark is an engineer at WTXL and used to visit here but have not seen him around lately.
Interesting. My LG DVD Recorder can display captions from clear QAM channels. In my brief experience using TotalMedia on my PC TotalMedia can do this also; I also (ab)use ccextractorwin to extract captions then create subtitle files from saved HDTV recordings.

Every local station appears to have no problems carrying in-show captions except WTXL-DT in primetime. It's really weird.

dsmith901

10-17-08, 05:24 PM

Interesting. My LG DVD Recorder can display captions from clear QAM channels. In my brief experience using TotalMedia on my PC TotalMedia can do this also; I also (ab)use ccextractorwin to extract captions then create subtitle files from saved HDTV recordings.

Every local station appears to have no problems carrying in-show captions except WTXL-DT in primetime. It's really weird.

It may be my TV (Panasonic plasma) that is the problem and not the Comcast DVR. But I don't know for sure.

ClarenceR

10-19-08, 02:11 PM

Now I'm noticing captions from WTXL-DT capture of Life on Mars, thanks guys if you're reading. :)

Also, WCTV is broadcasting SD instead of HD for the Dolphins. Oh well, time for me to play more TF2.

dsmith901

10-20-08, 09:18 AM

A big thanks to John Clark, or whoever, for fixing the DD 5.1 channel levels problem on ABC prime time shows on Comcast - makes a HUGE difference! Much appreciated.

rabblerouser

10-22-08, 06:53 PM

Tallahassee sucks so bad. Won't give waivers. HD games dropped for SD games. Dragging their feet with Directv. Running low power.
Someday they will run out of barbque sauce and the people will finally come out of their coma.

Ernest_T

10-23-08, 09:41 AM

Dragging their feet with Directv.

Actually concerning this, DirecTV is planning to provide HD local channels to Tallahassee this December, according to their website (I assume ABC, CBS, NBC, and Fox).

Link to DirecTV HD Locals page (http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageNR.jsp?assetId=3620002) - check the listing on the right side of the page.

Granted that's a little later than I'd like, but they're coming. Also, there were a number of markets that were slated to get their locals in HD in December that were pushed back to first quarter 2009. At this point, we're the only market planned for December that hasn't been pushed back. Plus, we're getting them earlier than some larger markets (Lexington, KY comes to mind). Not saying it's perfect, but it could be worse.

hunter0008

10-25-08, 12:48 PM

Can someone PLEASE turn on the HD switch for the UF-Kentucky game on Comcast 433. I KNOW this is being broadcast in HD. Unbelievable.

ClarenceR

10-25-08, 02:33 PM

Can someone PLEASE turn on the HD switch for the UF-Kentucky game on Comcast 433. I KNOW this is being broadcast in HD. Unbelievable.
I'm assuming that you're watching WCTV.

WCTV has no known capability to broadcast syndicated HD programming thus no switch to flip.

hunter0008

10-25-08, 03:03 PM

I'm assuming that you're watching WCTV.

WCTV has no known capability to broadcast syndicated HD programming thus no switch to flip.

I am. I don't really know what that means for what you said, but I figured someone would give me a justification. All I know is that it is broadcast in HD and I don't understand why we can't get it in HD. i.e., Jeopardy.

ClarenceR

10-25-08, 03:43 PM

I am. I don't really know what that means for what you said, but I figured someone would give me a justification. All I know is that it is broadcast in HD and I don't understand why we can't get it in HD. i.e., Jeopardy.
WCTV has the ability to broadcast CBS network programming in HD when that programming's available in HD. (You'll know if it's a CBS program if you see a translucent eye logo) WCTV does not have the ability to broadcast non-CBS (i.e. off-network syndication) programming in HD.

The Florida-Kentucky game is a Raycom Sports presentation. Raycom Sports is one of those off-network shows. Thus WCTV's telecasts are stuck in SD until they are able, meaning they have the proper equipment and/or functionality, to do live or any HD syndication.

If you want an official explanation, try contacting the program director at WCTV.

bleibow

10-25-08, 04:25 PM

So is that the reason why the FSU game is shown in SD now on WTXL, because it originated from ESPN?

hunter0008

10-25-08, 04:45 PM

WCTV has the ability to broadcast CBS network programming in HD when that programming's available in HD. (You'll know if it's a CBS program if you see a translucent eye logo) WCTV does not have the ability to broadcast non-CBS (i.e. off-network syndication) programming in HD.

The Florida-Kentucky game is a Raycom Sports presentation. Raycom Sports is one of those off-network shows. Thus WCTV's telecasts are stuck in SD until they are able, meaning they have the proper equipment and/or functionality, to do live or any HD syndication.

If you want an official explanation, try contacting the program director at WCTV.

I'm still a little confused...but that helps. Thanks for the explanation!

I guess I just don't understand the technicalities behind all of this. To me, if something is shot in HD, I see no reason why this HD signal can't be sent out around the nation. Is it cheaper for WCTV to get the SD signal or does Raycom not distribute the rights to it?

ClarenceR

10-25-08, 05:41 PM

I guess I just don't understand the technicalities behind all of this. To me, if something is shot in HD, I see no reason why this HD signal can't be sent out around the nation. Is it cheaper for WCTV to get the SD signal or does Raycom not distribute the rights to it?
In the case for Raycom (and any off-network telecast), having an HD version available depends on each individual station that has the rights to Raycom games. These stations may or may not choose to invest the extra money needed to telecast Raycom's games in HD. WALB airs the same Raycom games as WCTV but WALB has the added bonus of having the resources necessary of bringing their viewers the HD version.

HD telecasts on an station's affiliated network require different equipment than HD telecasts that are not part of the network.

(P.S. I hope you understand that the February 17th, 2009 deadline is for broadcasting digital signals over-the-air; there is no HD mandate.)

There's an entire thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=885088) in the HDTV programming forum about syndicated HD programs. Maybe I should re-read certain portions of that thread so I can get a better handle of things.

hunter0008

10-25-08, 11:39 PM

Ahh, I see...it is about money. Too bad. Thanks for the explanation though. And I do understand the no HD mandate thing in February. That's too bad too. Oh well. HD seems to be becoming a more and more normal fixture, including commercials which is nice to see.

dsmith901

10-28-08, 10:46 AM

So is that the reason why the FSU game is shown in SD now on WTXL, because it originated from ESPN?

I don't think so, since ABC is partners with ESPN and other ESPN sourced games on ABC have been shown in HD at WTXL. And WTXL is supposed to be using an automatic SD-HD switch so I don't think anything needed flipping on. So maybe John Clark or someone will explain why the VT game was not in HD on WTXL? Inquiring minds want to know! And also, can we get some information on whether the FSU-GT game will be in HD (I think it is on ABC also but not sure)?

seanatki

10-28-08, 08:08 PM

And also, can we get some information on whether the FSU-GT game will be in HD (I think it is on ABC also but not sure)?

ABC/ESPN doesn't have the camera equipment to show every college game in HD, so they have to decide in advance which games get HD and which don't. Some stadiums (the Miami Dolphins Stadium, for example) have HD cameras in place, so they can show those games in HD with little hassle (this is why the FSU/Miami game was in HD on WTXL).

Every week, ESPN puts out a coverage map that indicates not only which games are broadcast where, but which ones will be in HD.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espntv/espnGuide

Just choose the day, time, and channel, and you can pull up the coverage map.

To answer your question, the FSU/GT game will be on at 3:30pm on ABC and will not be in HD. :(

EDIT: My apologies. I attached last week's map by accident. It appears they haven't produced a coverage map for this coming weekend yet.

dsmith901

10-29-08, 10:47 AM

ABC/ESPN doesn't have the camera equipment to show every college game in HD, so they have to decide in advance which games get HD and which don't. Some stadiums (the Miami Dolphins Stadium, for example) have HD cameras in place, so they can show those games in HD with little hassle (this is why the FSU/Miami game was in HD on WTXL).

Every week, ESPN puts out a coverage map that indicates not only which games are broadcast where, but which ones will be in HD.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espntv/espnGuide

Just choose the day, time, and channel, and you can pull up the coverage map.

To answer your question, the FSU/GT game will be on at 3:30pm on ABC and will not be in HD. :(

EDIT: My apologies. I attached last week's map by accident. It appears they haven't produced a coverage map for this coming weekend yet.

Thanks for the response, but I think it has less to do with availability of HD equipment than just cost considerations for games they consider to be of less interest than others (top 10 teams). In the past almost all ACC games on ESPN and ABC were in HD, but since this year the clueless at ESPN have dubbed the ACC a weak conference they and ABC treat ACC games like second rater competition. In short - we get no respect! The Miami game was an exception, perhaps in part because of what you said, but also that was a prime-time game, and FSU-UM games still generate a lot of interest.

Texadillo

10-29-08, 11:29 AM

To answer your question, the FSU/GT game will be on at 3:30pm on ABC and will not be in HD.

According to http://www.lsufootball.net/tvschedule.htm the FSU/GT game will be available in HD. Whether it is shown locally that way remains to be seen.

NewNole2001

10-29-08, 10:39 PM

Trip in VA

10-29-08, 10:43 PM

The game was shot in HD. I watched the highlights on SportsCenter, they were most definitely HD. Someone at WTXL needs to explain themselves.

ABC only has limited satellite capacity, and thus while most or all games are produced in HD, only a few can be broadcast live in HD.

- Trip

NewNole2001

10-29-08, 10:50 PM

ABC only has limited satellite capacity, and thus while most or all games are produced in HD, only a few can be broadcast live in HD.

- Trip

It just seems ridiculous to shoot the game in HD and not broadcast it in HD. In 2005 I would have just dealt with it, but it's 2008, almost 2009. There is no excuse for these kind of hijinks.

Disney is one of the largest media broadcasting companies on Earth. I find it extremely difficult to believe that they can't find satellite bandwidth to broadcast the five or six games they have at any one time in HD.

Hell, they broadcast ESPNews in HD. Who actually watches that, but they broadcast it in HD. If they have the bandwidth for that, then they have the bandwidth to broadcast all of the games with an HD source in HD.

Just saying. I'm still of the mind that this is a mistake made locally and not due to any bandwidth limitations.

Trip in VA

10-29-08, 10:53 PM

Disney is one of the largest media broadcasting companies on Earth. I find it extremely difficult to believe that they can't find satellite bandwidth to broadcast the five or six games they have at any one time in HD.

Just saying. I'm still of the mind that this is a mistake made locally and not due to any bandwidth limitations.

If you check other threads on AVS, you'll find the same thing. Many other stations had to air games in SD.

ABC is planning to upgrade its infrastructure some time next year to all HD, but for the time being remains limited.

- Trip

ClarenceR

11-01-08, 06:45 PM

For those scoring at home, the FSU-GT game was seen in HD format.

dsmith901

11-03-08, 10:56 AM

For those scoring at home, the FSU-GT game was seen in HD format.

Yeah, and if you saw the map of ABC/ESPN coverage for their regional games you would know why - the FSU/GT game was shown to the entire east coast, including the big metro areas up north (NY, PA, etc.). When I saw that I guessed we would get it in HD. Unfortunately, I suspect we will get the Clemson game in SD. But BC and Maryland are games of interest in the NE so they should be HD. And of course I would expect the UF game to be likewise.

Hank3

11-06-08, 10:12 AM

dsmith901

11-06-08, 04:52 PM

Here is an FYI for those using Comcast H/D DVR's in Tallahassee. Apparently they sent out a firmware upgrade and I noticed a major change in useable features on the remote. Before, I could use the Page Down button to jump back 15 seconds on any program, which was very convenient when zipping through commercials and overshooting. The Page Up button, however, had no opposite effect. Now, with the firmware change, the Page Down button jumps back 5 minutes, and the Page Up button jumps ahead 5 minutes. Of course in either case it will only jump back or forward to the start or end of the program, or to the live broadcast. This is a feature I have on my old Replay DVR and is very convenient, but the Replay jumps 30 seconds, which is more useful IMO. Still, it is a neat feature, but I miss the old 15 second jump back.

Texadillo

11-07-08, 08:25 AM

dsmith901

11-08-08, 12:32 PM

I noticed the software upgrade also. I use a Harmony remote with buttons programmed to skip ahead 30 seconds and skip back 15 seconds. Both controls continue to work after the upgrade. Even though Comcast changed the skip functions on their remotes, the codes for the old methods appear tho still be active.

That's great. Of course I forgot to mention that the "replay" button still jumps back 15 seconds but I got used to using the page down button for that feature because it was more convenient. My Replay DVR has an even better feature - it allows you to jump forward or backward any number of minutes you select. You just punch in the number (minutes) and hit the jump forward/back button. That is way cool, and I wish Comcast had that.

1998Nole

11-12-08, 10:29 AM

Comcast has added 3 new HD channel Fox News, Speed, FX. I can't remember the exact channel numbers right now though.

dsmith901

11-12-08, 11:36 AM

Comcast has added 3 new HD channel Fox News, Speed, FX. I can't remember the exact channel numbers right now though.

FX may be worth watching. Anyway, in February when analog OTA broadcasting ends you would think Comcast would take advantage of all that bandwidth wasted on analog channels and convert everything to digital full time. That would allow a lot more HD with minimal inconvenience to those using analog TVs, who would just require a converter box. Anyone know what their plans are?

wmk7479

11-17-08, 03:47 PM

It was my impression that they are still going to pump the analog channels down the line for all of those "cable ready" customers. So I don't think they'll be going away quickly... I hope I'm wrong though.

TallahasseeWrek

11-17-08, 03:59 PM

FX may be worth watching. Anyway, in February when analog OTA broadcasting ends you would think Comcast would take advantage of all that bandwidth wasted on analog channels and convert everything to digital full time. That would allow a lot more HD with minimal inconvenience to those using analog TVs, who would just require a converter box. Anyone know what their plans are?

Given that every cable company in the country is running ads touting the fact that their customers are all set for the February end of analog without any changes required on the part of the customer, I would think it highly unlikely that they would do something to change that.

Maybe in a year or two, the current ads will be treated like a campaign promise. "Due to the urgent need for more space, we must do this..."

But I wouldn't hold my breath.

dsmith901

11-17-08, 04:49 PM

Given that every cable company in the country is running ads touting the fact that their customers are all set for the February end of analog without any changes required on the part of the customer, I would think it highly unlikely that they would do something to change that.

Maybe in a year or two, the current ads will be treated like a campaign promise. "Due to the urgent need for more space, we must do this..."

But I wouldn't hold my breath.

But those analog channels take up a lot of bandwidth they could use for more digital (and HD) channels. Analog customers could be given a free STB (most have one already), and Comcast would still come out ahead. Cable companies have to do more than sit tight to hold off the satellite providers; most cable companies are already losing customers, so doing nothing is not a solution for them IMO.

Alan Gordon

11-17-08, 05:21 PM

But those analog channels take up a lot of bandwidth they could use for more digital (and HD) channels. Analog customers could be given a free STB (most have one already), and Comcast would still come out ahead. Cable companies have to do more than sit tight to hold off the satellite providers; most cable companies are already losing customers, so doing nothing is not a solution for them IMO.

For the record, some areas of the country are already doing this (free cheapo STB), or a STB for a small charge ($1.50). Several different cablecos doing this, with Comcast being one of them.

All the cablecos are wanting to do this now, but they're taking their time doing it as it costs them money for the STBs, the longer they wait, the more people upgrade to digital voluntary, they don't want to hear people complain about the prices (if they charge for the STB), and of course, they're going to squeeze every bit of bandwidth they can out of SDV. They're also doing it in certain markets first as markets with better infrastructure aren't in as much of a need for the space as some markets with older equipment.

I did hear about some adapter they were working on a year or two which converted the digital signal to analog without the need of a STB, but I don't know whatever became of it.

Either way, the cablecos are intending on phasing analog out, they're just being slow about it, but you can expect it to start ramping up very soon.

~Alan

jrcstudios

11-18-08, 10:05 AM

We have a re-occurring problem that kills captions occasionally.. If you notice WTXL without captions, please call the station and ask for engineering or extention 125 and leave us a message.
--John

Well, if someone at WTXL reads this thread, then:

Could someone please look into the lack of Closed Captions on WTXL-DT (I'm watching via Mediacom Valdosta) during primetime? The captions only come up during commercials and news promos but not from the main program.

jrcstudios

11-18-08, 10:17 AM

Sorry if I missed this but why is it that whenever ABC breaks to commercial during an HD feed game or program, everything is choppy? The program is fine, but the commercials are really slow/choppy at times.

I have found this to occur on some types of receivers (digital decoders, STB, DVR -whatever) and not on others. It seems to be that some of the MPEG encoding done by ABC, and some of the equipment in the path between there and the end customer don't play well together. I can only hope it all smooths out as manufacturers continue to send out firmware upgrades for both our encoders as well as user's receivers/set top boxes. I have only seen this on ABC commercials. --John

jrcstudios

11-18-08, 10:28 AM

Is anyone else using their surround sound system to watch ABC prime time shows on Comcast HD? When I do it sounds like the rear and front channels are way too hot and I have trouble hearing dialogue from the center channel, which seems at least 6 dB lower. This is especially a problem on shows with a lot of background music, like Ugly Betty and Gray's Anatomy, but the new show Life on Mars was also a problem hearing dialogue. At first I thought that ABC just mixed their audio that way but then it occurred to me that WTXL may need to adjust the channel levels in their DD 5.1 decoder. It has gotten so bad that I have to turn off my surround sound system and just listen to the TV speakers on most ABC prime time shows. My audio system is properly balanced using a SPL meter and I don't have this problem with any other DD 5.1 channels or DVDs. If John Clark is lurking I would like to hear from him on this.

I just happened to be lurking this morning! Sorry I haven't been on here in a while, I forget to check in sometimes.. My ears were burning though.

I wish I could claim that we fixed it. However, We didn't really do anything other than re-boot a few key pieces of equipment. We are working on a way to make monitoring in 5.1 for the MC operators easier like it should have been done from the start, BUT, we got hit by lightning last Friday, and have been going on overtime trying to put all the smoke back in the components that fried.

I guess I should go ahead and buy a nice 5.1 sound system for my house.. Do you think my wife would believe it if I tell her it is a job requirement?

Keep me posted on the 5.1 audio.. leave a message on my extension even (122).

--John

rrmcdonald

11-18-08, 10:33 AM

I guess I should go ahead and buy a nice 5.1 sound system for my house.. Do you think my wife would believe it if I tell her it is a job requirement?

Sounds like a good tax deduction to me! :)

PBSengineer

11-18-08, 10:49 AM

I guess I should go ahead and buy a nice 5.1 sound system for my house.. Do you think my wife would believe it if I tell her it is a job requirement?

--John

John, Get the station to buy you one - quality control, etc.

richall01

11-18-08, 11:01 AM

Does any know what day Directv will add the local HD channels next month?

Ernest_T

11-18-08, 12:29 PM

Does any know what day Directv will add the local HD channels next month?

I'm praying for the first week of the month - just before the conference championship games. The pixellation while watching BC/FSU this weekend via my indoor OTA antenna was driving me batty. I may have to throw this question out on another board and see if any responses come of it.

EDIT: I've tossed the question out. Waiting on any responses.

Alan Gordon

11-18-08, 12:57 PM

I'm praying for the first week of the month - just before the conference championship games.

Well, considering the other HD-LILs were delayed, you can at least be sure that Tallahassee, FL will be among the first roll-out! ;)

Unless Tallahassee was delayed as well, but hopefully Satelliteracer will have some good news for y'all! :)

~Alan

dsmith901

11-19-08, 11:12 AM

I just happened to be lurking this morning! Sorry I haven't been on here in a while, I forget to check in sometimes.. My ears were burning though.

I wish I could claim that we fixed it. However, We didn't really do anything other than re-boot a few key pieces of equipment. We are working on a way to make monitoring in 5.1 for the MC operators easier like it should have been done from the start, BUT, we got hit by lightning last Friday, and have been going on overtime trying to put all the smoke back in the components that fried.

I guess I should go ahead and buy a nice 5.1 sound system for my house.. Do you think my wife would believe it if I tell her it is a job requirement?

Keep me posted on the 5.1 audio.. leave a message on my extension even (122).

--John

John,

Thanks for your help. It has been better lately, but it does seem to vary a bit - fine one week and a little bit of the old issue the next, but overall it is better. I hope you find a permanent fix - I have never had this problem with the other 5.1 broadcasting stations - why not use what they use? DD 5.1 can be awesome when done right. I have been watching the reruns of Lost on the SciFi channel in HD and of course it has lots of special effects that are really effective when 5.1 is working right.

As for getting a DD surround system - by all means do so. Watching HD dramas without surround sound is like eating popcorn without butter and salt!

TallahasseeWrek

11-19-08, 10:26 PM

PBSengineer

11-20-08, 08:53 AM

Alan Gordon

11-20-08, 01:41 PM

Watching HD dramas without surround sound is like eating popcorn without butter and salt!

WCTV/WSWG REALLY needs to upgrade to 5.1 surround sound. Watching the CSI's without surround sound is like watching TV on your iPod... sure you get the point, but you miss out on the experience! ;)

Hopefully after the digital transition next year, WCTV/WSWG will have the funds needed to upgrade!

~Alan

ClarenceR

11-20-08, 01:49 PM

WCTV/WSWG
Hopefully after the digital transition next year, WCTV/WSWG will have the funds needed to upgrade!

~Alan
Somehow, I'm oddly pessimistic about it.

Alan Gordon

11-20-08, 02:11 PM

EDIT: I've tossed the question out. Waiting on any responses.

I expected Satelliteracer to remain silent until next week (at the earliest), however, I did read something earlier I thought was interesting.

According to what I read, DirecTV has WCTV-HD, WFSU-HD, WTXL-HD, WTWC-HD, and WTLH-HD uplinked and in testing.

WTLH-HD is uplinked to the SpaceWay 1 satellite at 103 degrees West on transponder #5. WTWC-HD is uplinked to the SpaceWay 1 satellite at 103 degrees West on Transponder #3, as is WCTV-HD, WFSU-HD, and WTXL-HD.

Note that even though all of the HD networks are uplinked, there are no guarantees that all will be available on launch day.

~Alan

Ernest_T

11-20-08, 02:39 PM

I expected Satelliteracer to remain silent until next week (at the earliest), however, I did read something earlier I thought was interesting.

According to what I read, DirecTV has WCTV-HD, WFSU-HD, WTXL-HD, WTWC-HD, and WTLH-HD uplinked and in testing.

WTLH-HD is uplinked to the SpaceWay 1 satellite at 103 degrees West on transponder #5. WTWC-HD is uplinked to the SpaceWay 1 satellite at 103 degrees West on Transponder #3, as is WCTV-HD, WFSU-HD, and WTXL-HD.

Note that even though all of the HD networks are uplinked, there are no guarantees that all will be available on launch day.

~Alan

Yeah - I figured I'd wait until about the end of the month before bringing the question back up. I noticed that someone else asked about it today, wondering if there was an ETA for the HD LILs yet. Thank you for the additional information as well. Good that the list includes WFSU-HD as well. Others are still indicating they don't have PBS in HD yet. Granted there are no guarantees here, but it all looks promising. :)

ClarenceR

11-20-08, 07:17 PM

Quick question: does anyone know when this market will conduct DTV tests? I saw a promo about this on WTWC and apparently this is an effort from WTXL, WTLH, WCTV and WTWC.

Ernest_T

11-20-08, 09:34 PM

Satelliteracer responded to the other guy's thread. Looks like the date is going to be 12/10. Not early enough to get the conference championship games, but at least it's still in December.

dsmith901

11-21-08, 10:07 AM

Most aggravating, wasn't it. I called and left jrcstudios a nasty voice mail, then called the news dept and told Lauren to slap the master control operator around to fix it. Happened 5 minutes later.
Odd, I just noticed that this morning's local news show was in 5.1. New?

John: It's time to get rid of the 27 analog off-air monitors. Switch to the digital and make them listen to off-air from that. Then maybe, the mistake won't last 15 minutes like it did last night.

Bad TV on WTXL's part.

I was watching on a delayed basis, and when I checked the live feed the sound had been fixed, so I didn't bother to call. WTXL has done so much right in the HD area, like local HD news and commercials, it is strange they can't get the 5.1 audio from ABC to be glitch free (strangely, the commercials are always just fine). ON the plus side, when the audio came back and the center channel finally restored, the LR channels were at proper levels for the first time in ages. Of course now ABC has announced it is cancelling Pushing Daisies after the initial 13 episodes, so you can't win for losing! I wish they would restart The Middleman and put it on ABC's main network - that was one cute and funny show!

CapeFish

11-22-08, 10:05 AM

Can anyone get PSIP via Comcast's clear QAM channels? (http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19517104-Comcast-broadcasting-PSIP)

Aren't they supposed to deliver PSIP data for WCTV-DT, WTLH-DT, WTXL-DT, WTWC-DT, and WFSU-DT via clear QAM?

Does anyone get the PSIP info and/or remapping from their TV?

taylor910

11-24-08, 09:59 AM

jrcstudios

11-25-08, 11:16 AM

Like many others on this forum, we listen to TV via a properly calibrated (Avia test disc) DD5.1 audio system. And like these same others, we consistently have trouble watching ABC network shows on WTXL, Comcast Channel 431 due to the music being too loud in the front channels to the point where it is difficult to make out the dialog. We often remedy this by switching to stereo, which helps but isn't foolproof.

Tonight my wife and I were watching Pushing Daisies, an ABC show. About 5 minutes into the show in mid-sentence the telecast switched from Pushing Daisies to a local promo, then after about 30 seconds, switched back. But when it switched back, it was on a new scene and even worse, had dropped from DD5.1 to stereo and the stereo consisted of the two surround channels. Now the dialog was completely gone!

This went on until 15 minutes into the show when suddenly it went back to DD5.1 and dialog could again be heard (although as always the music levels in the front channels interfered with the dialog.

We'll watch the first part of the show again via the Internet later in the week, but if anyone from WTXL reads this...

Thank you TallahasseeWrek!!
using details from your post, we were able to figure out what glitch caused this. It was the way the operator went from the accidental promo back to proper programming. As the operator wrote it up "20:04:15 approx 10 seconds of x1610 SWEEPS PROMO) :30 aired early on hd at this time. operator was adding clock triggers in titan when the element was triggered, seemingly without provocation. operator immediately switched back to network and re-cued element."
This would be so much more foolproof if all ABC-HD was in 5.1, but it isn't. Therefore when manually going to ABC-HD, another button has to be pushed if it is 5.1 instead of Stereo.

PBSengineer: loved your voicemail :) your right. We are going to put 5.1 in front of the operator as soon as we can. Audio monitoring in the BOC is pitiful because they are listening to 4 audio feeds (all stereo)

jrcstudios

11-25-08, 11:31 AM

For those tallahassee tailgaters...
Does anyone know the best way for me to get the FSU/UF game this weekend from the tailgate of a truck? I am bringing a 37" hdtv but don't really want to stream it from a laptop to the TV.

EDIT: Well I did some digging on this thread and found out about WTXL and such. So how is the reception near the stadium? Anybody have experience getting a signal while tailgating? Any recommendations for a good outdoor HD antenna? Thanks!

Good luck getting digital WTXL digital at the stadium. Get a directional antenna and point it North East. (perpendicular to the field) I'd also like to know if anyone has success with this..
--John

Ross Moody

11-26-08, 09:10 AM

What? Yes Gertrude, But WSWG-DT CBS is in HD! Quick grab the OTA Cable and reconnect to the lone "F" input, ahhh that's better. Seriously, I assumed these two stations were joined at the hip. ??? What gives? :confused:

dsmith901

11-26-08, 09:49 AM

Thank you TallahasseeWrek!!
using details from your post, we were able to figure out what glitch caused this. It was the way the operator went from the accidental promo back to proper programming. As the operator wrote it up "20:04:15 approx 10 seconds of x1610 SWEEPS PROMO) :30 aired early on hd at this time. operator was adding clock triggers in titan when the element was triggered, seemingly without provocation. operator immediately switched back to network and re-cued element."
This would be so much more foolproof if all ABC-HD was in 5.1, but it isn't. Therefore when manually going to ABC-HD, another button has to be pushed if it is 5.1 instead of Stereo.

PBSengineer: loved your voicemail :) your right. We are going to put 5.1 in front of the operator as soon as we can. Audio monitoring in the BOC is pitiful because they are listening to 4 audio feeds (all stereo)

But why are you the only 5.1 station having this problem? And that still doesn't explain the channel levels being out of whack for so long. Have you consulted with your colleagues at the other stations?

taylor910

11-30-08, 03:40 PM

Good luck getting digital WTXL digital at the stadium. Get a directional antenna and point it North East. (perpendicular to the field) I'd also like to know if anyone has success with this..
--John

Well we were able to get abc, cbs, and fox hd from lot 10 just south of the stadium no problem, even with all of the heavy rain yesterday.

WAR_GA

11-30-08, 07:57 PM

I've seen the estimated dates posted here on when Direct TV will begin broadcasting local stations in HD. Has anyone heard anything about Dish Network?

richall01

12-01-08, 12:05 AM

I've seen the estimated dates posted here on when Direct TV will begin broadcasting local stations in HD. Has anyone heard anything about Dish Network?

Dish has stated that they will NOT add the local HD stations in this DMA.
Not enough subs to Dish.

dsmith901

12-01-08, 01:25 PM

Dish has stated that they will NOT add the local HD stations in this DMA.
Not enough subs to Dish.

And they expect THAT approach to get them more subscribers? No wonder they are losing out to Direct! :mad:

Alan Gordon

12-01-08, 03:03 PM

Dish has stated that they will NOT add the local HD stations in this DMA.
Not enough subs to Dish.

I don't know where you heard this, but I would imagine it's only a matter of time before Dish Network adds Tallahassee HD-LIL. It may not happen tomorrow, it may not happen next year, but it WILL happen.

And they expect THAT approach to get them more subscribers? No wonder they are losing out to Direct! :mad:

To be fair, DirecTV has the same approach to adding LIL. Dish Network has had Albany, GA SD-LIL for years, and because of that, Dish Network has the majority of satellite subscribers in my area. DirecTV has yet to offer LIL... most likely due to the same reasons.

~Alan

WAR_GA

12-01-08, 03:47 PM

I completed my home theater room prior to football season, but did not anticipate how poorly SD looks on a 108" screen. CBS and ABC were fair at best, and ESPN Gameplan with the Raycom feeds were unwatchable. I would switch while watching games to an ESPN HD broadcast just to get motivated.

I will have to either switch to Direct TV or install an HD antenna on my existing pole before next September . . . .

rrmcdonald

12-01-08, 03:55 PM

Where do you live? I am in NE Tallahassee with an antenna in my attic which picks up ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX and PBS OTA through my E* 622 receiver. My signal is above 75 and all work great EXCEPT CBS on Sunday afternoons/early evenings, for some reason I keep losing signals... It would be great to have HD via SAT, though, so I could record one HD OTA while watching another HD OTA.

WAR_GA

12-01-08, 04:13 PM

rrmcdonald

12-01-08, 08:42 PM

I live in Thomasville. I've got an exterior antenna on a pole that the previous homeowners used. When the local Dish agent was hooking up my satellite, he said he could put an HD antenna on the pole and I could use OTA as a back up. . .

If you live in Thomasville you should be able to get them OTA; just hook the cable from the antenna into the back of the receiver and then program the receiver to ge the OTA channels (I am assuming you have an HD receiver).

WTLHFOXHD

12-02-08, 02:24 PM

Dish has stated that they will NOT add the local HD stations in this DMA.
Not enough subs to Dish.

Will I guess I need to go out back and tell the Guy installing the Dish HD equipment to stop and remove it.

Looks like D by the end of the year as they are doing the final turnup inspection this week. And Dish has installed the equipment and should do full turn up in the next few weeks.

dsmith901

12-02-08, 03:15 PM

Well, after harassing WTXL for their audio problems with DD 5.1 now WTWC (NBC) on Comcast had their own audio problems Monday night on Heroes. Sounded like they were getting a 2.0 feed instead of 5.1 and their audio processor was not handling it right - most of the sound was in the rear surrounds. I switched to analog and with DPLII it sounded "right" but of course did not replace good 5.1. WTF? What is so hard about getting DD 5.1 digital audio transmitted without problems through local stations?

Alan Gordon

12-02-08, 03:41 PM

Dish has stated that they will NOT add the local HD stations in this DMA.
Not enough subs to Dish.

I don't know where you heard this, but I would imagine it's only a matter of time before Dish Network adds Tallahassee HD-LIL. It may not happen tomorrow, it may not happen next year, but it WILL happen.

Will I guess I need to go out back and tell the Guy installing the Dish HD equipment to stop and remove it.

:)

Looks like D by the end of the year as they are doing the final turnup inspection this week.

Last I heard, the date for Tallahassee, FL HD-LIL going live on DirecTV is next Wednesday! :)

~Alan

sfoltz

12-02-08, 03:46 PM

:)

Last I heard, the date for Tallahassee, FL HD-LIL going live on DirecTV is next Wednesday! :)

~Alan
Last I checked the D* webpage (which was just now :) ), it still states that Tallahassee will get LILs on Monday, Dec. 8th. Where is it stated that its not until the 10th?

See: http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageNR.jsp?assetId=3620002

Alan Gordon

12-02-08, 04:19 PM

Last I checked the D* webpage (which was just now :) ), it still states that Tallahassee will get LILs on Monday, Dec. 8th. Where is it stated that its not until the 10th?

See: http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageNR.jsp?assetId=3620002

The link you provided states that Tallahassee, FL HD-LIL will be added in December 2008. Also, for the last several years, DirecTV has added HD-LILs on Wednesdays.

As for where I got the idea that HD-LIL will be added next Wednesday, compared to tomorrow, on the 17th, 24th, or 31st, the information came directly from a DirecTV employee (higher-up one... not a CSR). It's a tentative date, so it's possible that it could change (even be here tomorrow), BUT the last word on the subject (and the word was spoken by someone who would know and has never been wrong before about this sort of thing) was for the 10th. Ernest_T got the same information (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15117298#post15117298).

~Alan

sfoltz

12-02-08, 04:26 PM

Doh! I looked at the year and thought it was the day!

I guess I have to just wait and see then. D* could wait until the end of the month and still be accurate in the prediction. Of course, D* has made predictions in the past and has been wrong, but I must say it has been a lot better on its predictions on LILs.

Hank3

12-02-08, 04:28 PM

So when the HD locals come to DirecTV, what channels will they be? I currently have a custom channel list set up and would need to add the HD locals to my list I'm assuming.

Alan Gordon

12-02-08, 04:40 PM

Doh! I looked at the year and thought it was the day!

You're not the first person to do that! ;)

I guess I have to just wait and see then. D* could wait until the end of the month and still be accurate in the prediction. Of course, D* has made predictions in the past and has been wrong, but I must say it has been a lot better on its predictions on LILs.

A lot of the markets scheduled for 09 on that list, were originally scheduled for either this month, last month, and maybe one or two for the month before. Tallahassee, FL is the only market getting them this month. Tentative though it may be, I would say there's a 98.5% chance of getting them next Wednesday.

So when the HD locals come to DirecTV, what channels will they be? I currently have a custom channel list set up and would need to add the HD locals to my list I'm assuming.

As I posted in a previous message (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15113909#post15113909), DirecTV currently has WCTV-DT, WFSU-DT, WTXL-DT, WTWC-DT, and WTLH-DT uplinked and in testing. As for whether or not they will all be available next Wednesday, I haven't heard, and nothing would be official til they go live anyway.

Yes, the HD locals would have to be added to your custom lists just like when they add the "national" HD channels.

~Alan

Hank3

12-02-08, 04:44 PM

Thanks for the info, Alan!

WTLHFOXHD

12-05-08, 02:03 PM

You're not the first person to do that! ;)

A lot of the markets scheduled for 09 on that list, were originally scheduled for either this month, last month, and maybe one or two for the month before. Tallahassee, FL is the only market getting them this month. Tentative though it may be, I would say there's a 98.5% chance of getting them next Wednesday.

As I posted in a previous message (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15113909#post15113909), DirecTV currently has WCTV-DT, WFSU-DT, WTXL-DT, WTWC-DT, and WTLH-DT uplinked and in testing. As for whether or not they will all be available next Wednesday, I haven't heard, and nothing would be official til they go live anyway.

Yes, the HD locals would have to be added to your custom lists just like when they add the "national" HD channels.

~Alan

My contacts at D are saying next week. The only thing I am not sure of is WFSU I have heard they may not have the paper work done by then but I am not sure on that.

Trip in VA

12-05-08, 03:11 PM

So, I saw an FCC filing last night that shows WTLH-DT wants to boost power from 230 kW to 655 kW or so. =)

- Trip

WTLHFOXHD

12-05-08, 05:23 PM

So, I saw an FCC filing last night that shows WTLH-DT wants to boost power from 230 kW to 655 kW or so. =)

- Trip

Yes you did.

Trip in VA

12-05-08, 05:41 PM

Yes you did.

Good to know I'm not seeing things. :D

Just figured folks in the area would want to know.

- Trip

richall01

12-05-08, 10:09 PM

Any word about WTLF (CW 24) or (My Network WCTV2) On DirecTV in HD?

redst1300

12-06-08, 12:40 AM

Hi,
Haven't posted in this thread in a long time, so hope it's correct place. I live in Panama City and have Comcast Digital.

We no longer receive the PBS signal for the McNeil Lehrer News Hour in the High Def channel. Actually checked and not receiving the show that comes on prior to it either.

Anyone have a clue? thnx!

ClarenceR

12-06-08, 02:21 AM

Hi,
Haven't posted in this thread in a long time, so hope it's correct place. I live in Panama City and have Comcast Digital.

Here's the Panama City thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15192491#post15192491)

ClarenceR

12-06-08, 03:38 AM

Oh WTLHFOXHD, beyond the power boost and early analog shutoff are there any other plans for WTLH-DT? *raises eyebrows*

HAMCO

12-06-08, 09:16 AM

ClarenceR

12-06-08, 09:20 AM

At one time, going way back, this channel had connections to WTLH. What are the future plans for WFXU? Does anyone know if the transmitter has been re-located to another area? I was hoping they would continue broadcasting from here (Hamilton County) with a better programming schedule.
A contour map on WFXU on their FCC listing shows that their transmitter is moving towards the Gainesville market. Someone here posted earlier that WFXU is under new ownership.

WTLHFOXHD

12-06-08, 11:02 AM

Oh WTLHFOXHD, beyond the power boost and early analog shutoff are there any other plans for WTLH-DT? *raises eyebrows*

We wanted to get the power up some more to make sure we have good in building. As for early shutoff all I can say is ????? I am going to run the analog until the 17th.

Trip in VA

12-06-08, 11:08 AM

WTLHFOXHD

12-06-08, 11:09 AM

WFXU (digital 48/virtual 57.1) ceased broadcasting in this area about 3-4 weeks ago. They had been showing two endless loops of the Ilene Silverman show (a locally Gainesville produced show). Earlier posts suggested this channel had connections to WGFL in Gainesville. At one time, going way back, this channel had connections to WTLH. What are the future plans for WFXU? Does anyone know if the transmitter has been re-located to another area? I was hoping they would continue broadcasting from here (Hamilton County) with a better programming schedule.

Budd Broadcasting now owns WFXU. Budd Broadcasting does not have anything to do with WGFL now (he did). As for WFXU all I know is that WFXU has told the tower company they will be off the tower by the end of the year. If you look up FCC filings they are planning to move it just outside of Gville. They will have to put a city grade signal over Live Oak which you can see by the antenna pattern they are filing with. As for programing I am just guessing but it will probably go nonComm.

WTLHFOXHD

12-06-08, 11:11 AM

Any word about WTLF (CW 24) or (My Network WCTV2) On DirecTV in HD?

At this time we don't have plans for CW in HD.

WTLHFOXHD

12-06-08, 11:15 AM

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101272881&formid=387&fac_num=23486

That FCC filing states all the way at the very bottom that the analog signal may go away (though that it's not a sure thing) by 12/31/08.

- Trip

Ok they (corp) put that in our DTV status filing so we would have the option to go early. We decided to stay on with it just to make sure viewers had time to convert. A few of our other stations did turn off the analog early.

ClarenceR

12-06-08, 06:19 PM

Budd Broadcasting now owns WFXU. Budd Broadcasting does not have anything to do with WGFL now (he did).

We wanted to get the power up some more to make sure we have good in building.

Ok they (corp) put that in our DTV status filing so we would have the option to go early. We decided to stay on with it just to make sure viewers had time to convert.

Does "good in building" mean indoor antenna reception or some sort of technical issue? Thank you for clearing things up.

WTLHFOXHD

12-07-08, 09:57 AM

In building means more people will be able to use indoor antennas.

Alan Gordon

12-08-08, 02:48 PM

My contacts at D are saying next week. The only thing I am not sure of is WFSU I have heard they may not have the paper work done by then but I am not sure on that.

DirecTV added a WHOLE bunch of PBS affiliates last week... which is a very good sign as DirecTV has approached PBS HD-LIL VERY differently compared to the way they do other network stations. Read the following two links to see what I mean:

DIRECTV to Carry Public Television Stations in HD (http://dtv.client.shareholder.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=284302)

DIRECTV Launches Local Public Television Stations in HD Nationwide (http://dtv.client.shareholder.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=352047)
Only Satellite TV Provider to Launch Local PBS In HD, DIRECTV Rolls Out 14 with More To Follow This Month and 2009

If they don't get around to it this week, hopefully it won't be too long for you PBS-watching DirecTV subscribers.

In building means more people will be able to use indoor antennas.

I've been having an issue with my outdoor antenna in one room, so I've been using a Zenith Silver Sensor UHF antenna to DVR some programs in that room... and I can't pick up WFXL-DT with that antenna, but I can pick up WTLH-DT with it.... not a bad little signal as it is now! ;)

~Alan

rabblerouser

12-08-08, 10:54 PM

I would much rather have CW or mynetwork in HD than PBS.
Why is fox turning up signal now that we don't need it? Losers. . .

svenfran

12-09-08, 05:02 PM

This may be off topic, but will WCTV cease its analog FM 87.7 audio when it goes digital? My wife listens to WCTV on 87.7 in the car. Thx,

Svenfran

Trip in VA

12-09-08, 05:10 PM

The 87.7 sound is just the audio carrier of the channel 6 TV signal.

So yes. It will be gone next year.

- Trip

jay_waller

12-09-08, 09:09 PM

t - minus 10 hours and counting :)

Ernest_T

12-10-08, 06:54 AM

Posted this on the DBSTalk boards as well -

After checking this morning, it looks like we got 3 of the 5 that I mentioned last night on the DBSTalk forums. They are:

WCTV-DT 6 (CBS)
WTWC-DT 40 (NBC)
WTLH-DT 49 (FOX)

No HD programming on any of those yet, but I believe the CBS and NBC morning shows will change that at the top of the hour. On the whole, they look pretty good to me. Maybe not quite as good as the OTA version on my setup, but pretty close (enough for me to take down my indoor antenna when all five are up and running).

I had heard that WFSU-DT 11 (PBS) might not make it up, and that turned out to be true. I'm happy with the ones we got (particularly NBC - that means I can pull my dipoles in on my antenna), but I am disappointed that they didn't get WTXL-DT 27 (ABC) going. That one tends to be harder for me to pull in OTA than the other three major network stations. Hopefully they'll get that one going as well before too much longer.

rrmcdonald

12-10-08, 07:49 AM

This may be off topic, but will WCTV cease its analog FM 87.7 audio when it goes digital? My wife listens to WCTV on 87.7 in the car. Thx,

Svenfran

From an e-mail from WCTV:
"Sorry to inform you that our radio broadcast goes away on February 17, 2009. You’ve been able to hear WCTV on 87.7 due to a fluke in FCC spectrum assignment. All TV stations broadcasting on analog channel 6, like WCTV, have their audio signal carried on 87.7 which overlaps the radio spectrum. Some newer radios can’t even tune to 87.7 because it isn’t legitimately part of the radio spectrum. Many people have asked why we don’t buy a radio station and simulcast. That is virtually impossible because we don’t have radio broadcast rights for most of our programming and to get those rights would be prohibitively expensive.

Sorry to lose you as a listener. Some good news: Soon you’ll be able to receive our broadcasts over your mobile phone. You’ll not only be able to hear, but see our broadcasts."

richall01

12-10-08, 08:15 AM

Posted this on the DBSTalk boards as well -

After checking this morning, it looks like we got 3 of the 5 that I mentioned last night on the DBSTalk forums. They are:

WCTV-DT 6 (CBS)
WTWC-DT 40 (NBC)
WTLH-DT 49 (FOX)

I had heard that WFSU-DT 11 (PBS) might not make it up, and that turned out to be true. I'm happy with the ones we got (particularly NBC - that means I can pull my dipoles in on my antenna), but I am disappointed that they didn't get WTXL-DT 27 (ABC) going. That one tends to be harder for me to pull in OTA than the other three major network stations. Hopefully they'll get that one going as well before too much longer.

So WHAT is the problem with WTXL the "Only station whith local News in HD"

Hank3

12-10-08, 08:30 AM

So WHAT is the problem with WTXL the "Only station whith local News in HD"

Yeah - that's a good question.

Ernest_T

12-10-08, 10:42 AM

Hank3

12-10-08, 10:48 AM

Just sent an email, too :)

Alan Gordon

12-10-08, 01:14 PM

As a poster on DBSTalk said, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, so it might be in order to send a quick courteous e-mail to:

abc27news@wtxl.tv

to ask about the situation. I sent one earlier this morning. The more e-mails they receive, the more interest they'll realize exists in their station being available in high definition via DirecTV.

I recommend everybody that sends an E-Mail to keep in mind that this may not be a WTXL issue. It's possible that technical problems kept WTXL off for the launch, or perhaps the contracts, like WFSU were not signed in time.

Either way, hopefully our friendly WTXL employee will fill us in on the reasons why WTXL was not launched today as well.

~Alan

Ernest_T

12-10-08, 01:30 PM

WTLHFOXHD

12-10-08, 02:25 PM

I would much rather have CW or mynetwork in HD than PBS.
Why is fox turning up signal now that we don't need it? Losers. . .

Thanks.....

sfoltz

12-10-08, 04:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabblerouser
I would much rather have CW or mynetwork in HD than PBS.
Why is fox turning up signal now that we don't need it? Losers. . .

Thanks.....

I thought this was a bit harsh too, but then I read his forum name. :D

The post assumes that no one will continue to use of OAR reception which is not true. I would also assume that some viewers D* viewers will keep their OAR antennas as backup if the satellite goes out (some cable viewers probably also do that too).

rrmcdonald

12-10-08, 04:22 PM

I thought this was a bit harsh too, but then I read his forum name.

Same here, and from his earlier posts.

We appreciate the help all of the posters from the local stations make! AND, knowing not everybody is D* I can understand them wanting/needing to boost the power

WTLHFOXHD

12-10-08, 04:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabblerouser
I would much rather have CW or mynetwork in HD than PBS.
Why is fox turning up signal now that we don't need it? Losers. . .

I thought this was a bit harsh too, but then I read his forum name. :D

The post assumes that no one will continue to use of OAR reception which is not true. I would also assume that some viewers D* viewers will keep their OAR antennas as backup if the satellite goes out (some cable viewers probably also do that too).

Who knows what Broadcast TV will be in the coming years. Now that it is digital. Media flow has ch 55 for mobile devices and I hear that Dish has some rights to an old tv ch. don't know what they are going to do.

ClarenceR

12-10-08, 11:49 PM

MyNetworkTV's HD offerings (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1040714) are mainly movies and WWE Smackdown. It hasn't been "all HD" since the telenovellas were tossed off the network.

Someone would have to justify paying lots and lots of money to build a transmitter with the proper placement and signal strength for a network that gets only 2-3 million viewers nationally at best. Don't forget the HD broadcasting gear. (With the erosion of broadcast network viewership, who knows if they'll maintain that figure?)

Or one would demand WCTV serve two 720p HD channels in the limited ATSC bandwidth. Have fun with the macroblocking nightmares that'll bring. I barely tolerate the macroblocking that occurs on 46.1 as it is.

Unless you're a big WWE fan or just wants to quickly acquire a HD movie collection, you're not missing much with MyNetworkTV.

Ernest_T

12-11-08, 08:39 AM

dsmith901

12-11-08, 11:07 AM

We wanted to get the power up some more to make sure we have good in building. As for early shutoff all I can say is ????? I am going to run the analog until the 17th.

Will this also make any improvement in the CW channel, as seen on Comcast, that you guys seem to run on a sub-band? If we can't get CW in HD, at least give it to us at something that doesn't look like third generation VHS EP! :(

dsmith901

12-11-08, 11:11 AM

Yesterday I helped my brother wall-mount a 26" Sharp LCD connected to Comcast. Without a STB and using just the QAM and NTSC tuner, we ran the auto channel setup and it recognized 51 digital channels. But when we tried to watch a digital channel only channel 116 came through (badly) and every other channel showed a message that the signal level was too low! He had to pay $6.95/mo. for a digital STB to see what he should get at no added cost with a QAM tuner. BTW, he already subscribed to Comcast digital service. Is Comcast blocking all digital channels from QAM tuners? Or can they do something to the signal level to bring them in if we ask? Anyone know the answer to that question?

PBSengineer

12-11-08, 11:14 AM

On Comcast, the only QAM in the clear is the off-air from the local channels and some digital copies of the analog stuff you can see on a NTSC TV. You can watch HD from the locals without even paying for the digital tier. Everything else digital on Comcast is scrambled so you need their STB or cable card and pay for digital.

Comcast is so nice to us, aren't they?

svenfran

12-11-08, 12:49 PM

From an e-mail from WCTV:
"Sorry to inform you that our radio broadcast goes away on February 17, 2009. You’ve been able to hear WCTV on 87.7 due to a fluke in FCC spectrum assignment. All TV stations broadcasting on analog channel 6, like WCTV, have their audio signal carried on 87.7 which overlaps the radio spectrum. Some newer radios can’t even tune to 87.7 because it isn’t legitimately part of the radio spectrum. Many people have asked why we don’t buy a radio station and simulcast. That is virtually impossible because we don’t have radio broadcast rights for most of our programming and to get those rights would be prohibitively expensive.

Sorry to lose you as a listener. Some good news: Soon you’ll be able to receive our broadcasts over your mobile phone. You’ll not only be able to hear, but see our broadcasts."

Thanks, RRMcDonald and Trip in VA. Guess I'll just have to find her a portable OTA DTV audio tuner (if there is such a thing) to plug into the aux input on her car radio! Then at least she could get ALL the local stations' audio.

Svenfran

Trip in VA

12-11-08, 05:53 PM

Thanks, RRMcDonald and Trip in VA. Guess I'll just have to find her a portable OTA DTV audio tuner (if there is such a thing) to plug into the aux input on her car radio! Then at least she could get ALL the local stations' audio.

Svenfran

No such animal. DTV does not work well while in motion. Apparently, it is unable to handle the Doppler effect.

- Trip

sfoltz

12-12-08, 10:07 AM

I posted this earlier this morning on DBSTalk concerning my e-mail yesterday to WTXL:

I did get a response back. From what I got, there's no technical reason why they couldn't go live with the HD signal via DirecTV. However, it appears that negotiations are still going on at the corporate level to get WTXL-DT on DirecTV. So apparently, it is out of the hands of WTXL (or as I would say if it applied directly to me, "above my pay grade").
I saw the D* press release concerning the Tallahasse locals and it left off the PBS & ABC affiliates. It just says Tallahassee now has local hidef and states the three channels that are on (not stating that there are two others). I hope that doesn't mean they are still a long ways off (especially WTXL). :( Since moving, I've held up getting an OTA antenna hoping the locals would be in hidef in the near future (took a year to get what we have now).

Hank3

12-12-08, 10:24 AM

Alan Gordon

12-12-08, 04:45 PM

Interesting thing happened to me last night. I have Survivor under my Series Recording but it didn't record in HD. Now when I manually recorded CSI, it recorded in HD. Do I need to change some settings to all my series recordings that are on FOX, NBC, and CBS?

Yes!

All Series Links must be reset from the SD-LIL channels to the HD-LIL channels... just like whenever DirecTV adds an HD version of an existing SD national channel... otherwise it will simply record the SD version.

~Alan

Alan Gordon

12-12-08, 04:54 PM

That's absolutely correct - it might not be an issue on WTXL's end. I'm just taking the recommended network troubleshooting approach - check stuff locally first and then work your way out. Granted we don't always do that - we just blame the guy on the other end. Hopefully it'll be something relatively simple to get straightened out.

I know, and I wasn't recommending anybody not E-Mail WTXL, but I have heard of instances where people were quite ugly to the local affiliate when it was not available because of reasons beyond their control (which apparently was the case here too), and I wanted to stress this to ANYBODY who was thinking of e-mailing WTXL.

Realize that although I'm disappointed that we didn't get ABC this time around, I'm extremely happy about getting the three that we did. Hey, three out of five ain't bad (hmm...that might even make a good song title :) Well OK - maybe not :D).

As someone who receives ABC and CBS via HD-DNS on DirecTV, the extra recording space provided by the MPEG4 versions is fantastic... though it sucks when you need to try and clear space for recording an OTA program (ABC for y'all, NBC and FOX for me) as you have to clear off twice the amount of MPEG4 programming to make room for the MPEG2 OTA programming!

~Alan

Hank3

12-12-08, 04:54 PM

Ahhh ok. Thanks, Alan. Gotta add Versus HD and Golf Channel HD over then also.

Ernest_T

12-12-08, 05:20 PM

I know, and I wasn't recommending anybody not E-Mail WTXL, but I have heard of instances where people were quite ugly to the local affiliate when it was not available because of reasons beyond their control (which apparently was the case here too), and I wanted to stress this to ANYBODY who was thinking of e-mailing WTXL.

As someone who receives ABC and CBS via HD-DNS on DirecTV, the extra recording space provided by the MPEG4 versions is fantastic... though it sucks when you need to try and clear space for recording an OTA program (ABC for y'all, NBC and FOX for me) as you have to clear off twice the amount of MPEG4 programming to make room for the MPEG2 OTA programming!

~Alan

Agreed - I wouldn't want problems with getting information to arise because someone sent a nasty message rather than being nice. I tried to be nice (I hope it came off that way), and the gentleman that corresponded with me was very courteous in return. I was very appreciative of the info he was able to offer.

As for OTA recording, I don't really do much of that anymore. Not because of the space issues, but because I seem to have a fairly good chance of pixellation happening during the program, which sometimes fritzes the recordings pretty good. Because of that, I have generally just recorded the SD versions of shows on local stations. :( Luckily, I don't record ABC or PBS shows much, so moving forward, that's not to be expected to be a huge problem for me.

dsmith901

12-15-08, 11:32 AM

ClarenceR

12-15-08, 12:25 PM

I noticed in a DirecTV brochure they list HD channels but CW was not listed. I know CW is available in HD (though not locally), so why isn't it on the list? They list all the other national networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX) so why not CW?
I'm guessing that this market has no CW station broadcasting HD and DirecTV can't pass along something that isn't there.

Alan Gordon

12-15-08, 03:20 PM

Luckily, I don't record ABC or PBS shows much, so moving forward, that's not to be expected to be a huge problem for me.

The cancellation of "Pushing Daisies" and "Eli Stone" have cut my ABC viewing down quite a bit... but "Lost" will return next month, so we'll see. As for PBS, I don't watch PBS much anymore. There is one show I'd like to record on one of WFSU-DT's sub-channels, but I can't receive WFSU-DT reliably enough to record it, and I haven't been able to find a schedule for the sub-channels on my local PBS affiliate.

I noticed in a DirecTV brochure they list HD channels but CW was not listed. I know CW is available in HD (though not locally), so why isn't it on the list? They list all the other national networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX) so why not CW?

I'm assuming you're referring to a "NATIONAL" DirecTV brochure (not a "regional" one) in which case it might be due to the fact that DirecTV doesn't carry CW in HD in most markets. In fact, DirecTV carries CW in HD in 31 of the 116 DMAs in which it serves. Note that not all those DMAs have a CW, and some of them (Tallahassee for example) have a CW in HD. They are adding more and more of them in markets in which there are a CW-HD affiliate, but they probably don't want to draw attention to the missing CW affiliates...

I suspect that DirecTV didn't have a logo for MyNetworkTV-HD or PBS-HD either? DirecTV only carries MyNetworkTV in HD in 16 of the 116 DMAs, and are just now starting to increase the number of DMAs in which PBS is carried in HD.

Also, as much as I hate to say it, the CW has seen better days, so most people probably wouldn't notice the missing logo.

~Alan

Hank3

12-15-08, 03:25 PM

At this point, how would we know if WTXL (ABC) will be coming in HD (other than the obvious of checking the channel)? Will someone update us on those corporate exec. negotiations?

Alan Gordon

12-15-08, 04:30 PM

At this point, how would we know if WTXL (ABC) will be coming in HD (other than the obvious of checking the channel)? Will someone update us on those corporate exec. negotiations?

With any luck, jrcstudios might be able to update us once negotiations are finished, or perhaps WTLHFOXHD or PBSEngineer might "hear it through the grapevine" once the negotiations are finished.

A DirecTV employee posting on another message board (DBSTalk.com) might mention the addition of WTXL-DT or WFSU-DT the day before as he's done on a few occasions, or he might not.

Other than that, it's pretty much just checking the channel...

BTW, has any DirecTV subscribers in Tallahassee had any troubles with the HD-LIL? I know Macon, GA subscribers who got their HD-LIL last month has had a lot of issues with the sound on their local FOX affiliate's HD signal delivered by DirecTV.

~Alan

Ernest_T

12-15-08, 10:30 PM

I haven't watched a lot of them since they came online, and have watched FOX the least of the three, but so far, I've been very pleased with what I've seen. I had one show I DVR'd (not even sure it was off an HD-LIL station-don't remember at the moment) where the audio got out of sync with the video, but I got out of it, then resumed, and it was fine from there.

And yes - we probably won't know about WTXL-DT or WFSU-DT coming until we see it in the guides, unless one of our friendly folks can give us a heads-up. :)

jrcstudios

12-16-08, 12:03 PM

With any luck, jrcstudios might be able to update us once negotiations are finished, or perhaps WTLHFOXHD or PBSEngineer might "hear it through the grapevine" once the negotiations are finished.

A DirecTV employee posting on another message board (DBSTalk.com) might mention the addition of WTXL-DT or WFSU-DT the day before as he's done on a few occasions, or he might not.

Other than that, it's pretty much just checking the channel...

BTW, has any DirecTV subscribers in Tallahassee had any troubles with the HD-LIL? I know Macon, GA subscribers who got their HD-LIL last month has had a lot of issues with the sound on their local FOX affiliate's HD signal delivered by DirecTV.

~Alan

The "negotiations" are in fact on a corp level outside of the building (and state) that I work in, and I have no doubt that actual DirecTV viewers will probably know before I do.

I would hope that it gets settled before February, but if not, please know that our HD OTA signal will be just as strong as "the other guys" on February 17. And, as OTA viewers know already, local OTA HD is far less compressed than cable or satellite providers, for those that can get it.
--JRC

Alan Gordon

12-16-08, 01:17 PM

The "negotiations" are in fact on a corp level outside of the building (and state) that I work in, and I have no doubt that actual DirecTV viewers will probably know before I do.

I remember a few occasions in which the station was made aware (either by corporate or by DirecTV) prior to going live after negotiations were completed... but then I also know of many instances where DirecTV viewers (or posters on assorted DBS message boards) knew prior to the station.

I guess I SHOULD have said that should YOU "hear it through the grapevine"... ;)

I would hope that it gets settled before February, but if not, please know that our HD OTA signal will be just as strong as "the other guys" on February 17. And, as OTA viewers know already, local OTA HD is far less compressed than cable or satellite providers, for those that can get it.

While HD OTA is indeed far less compressed, I have to admit that even MY discerning eyes cannot see the difference between the ABC-HD affiliate out of NY via DirecTV or WTXL-DT or WTVM-DT. I can't speak for the HD-LIL for Tallahassee since I'm outside the DMA, but if WTXL-DT (via DirecTV HD-LIL) looks as good as WABC-DT via DirecTV, the reliability of the HD-LIL would trump whatever negligible difference the added compression makes.

~Alan

jay_waller

12-16-08, 02:57 PM

BTW, has any DirecTV subscribers in Tallahassee had any troubles with the HD-LIL? I know Macon, GA subscribers who got their HD-LIL last month has had a lot of issues with the sound on their local FOX affiliate's HD signal delivered by DirecTV.

~Alan

Hi Alan, I was watching the Cowboy's game the other day and nearly the whole game was in HD until the end where it went to SD. This was on the NBC Sunday night game. Since I have hd-dns for NBC i just switched over to the national affiliate and it was still HD. Don't know what happened there to the HD-LiL.

PBSengineer

12-16-08, 04:10 PM

Hank3

12-17-08, 09:37 AM

Here's the response I got from WTXL's Chief Engineer:

I’m truly sorry for your inconvenience. I have had to do much research on this and have found out that it is true that negotiations on a corporate level have not yet come to a conclusion. Unfortunately it is out of our (local ABC affiliate) hands. It is being handled by our ownership group. As you might imagine it is driving us nut too. I was at the receive sites for both Dish and Direct and have seen that our digital signal is crystal clear there and ready for them to receive over fiber. I have asked several times when they expect to reach an agreement and have not been given an answer from my folks.

Please continue to be patient with us as we all hope to have this matter resolved very soon. Should you have any other questions or concerns please do not hesitate to contact us.

dsmith901

12-18-08, 05:47 PM

Also, as much as I hate to say it, the CW has seen better days, so most people probably wouldn't notice the missing logo.

~Alan

Yeah, I only watch Smallville now. I remember when WB/CW used to have a ton of great shows: My so Called Life, Buffy, LaFemme Nikita, Angel, Roswell, Wonderfalls, and Veronica Mars, for example. And wasn't Firefly on CW? I keep hoping they can recover some of that old magic.

Alan Gordon

12-18-08, 06:20 PM

Hi Alan, I was watching the Cowboy's game the other day and nearly the whole game was in HD until the end where it went to SD. This was on the NBC Sunday night game. Since I have hd-dns for NBC i just switched over to the national affiliate and it was still HD. Don't know what happened there to the HD-LiL.

As PBSEngineer said, that seems to be an issue with WTWC-DT, and not DirecTV... which may be a bad thing as it might take longer to fix! ;)

Yeah, I only watch Smallville now. I remember when WB/CW used to have a ton of great shows: My so Called Life, Buffy, LaFemme Nikita, Angel, Roswell, Wonderfalls, and Veronica Mars, for example. And wasn't Firefly on CW? I keep hoping they can recover some of that old magic.

I only watch "Privileged" on the CW right now. I'll watch "Reaper" when it starts up again, but that's probably about it right now. I know it's cheesy as all get out, but I'd probably give "Gossip Girl" a try if it wasn't for the lack of an available HD source for The CW. As for "Smallville", I never finished my Season Six Blu-ray set yet, nor started on Season Seven, but as soon as things calm down at work (the middle of next month), I'll be watching some "Smallville" big time... as well as Season Three of "Supernatural" which I didn't end up watching any of last year due to the lack of an HD source... but will catch up on Blu-ray.

As for the shows you mentioned, "Firefly" was FOX, as was "Wonderfalls". "My So-Called Life" was ABC, and "La Femme Nikita" was USA... but your point is taken, and agreed with. WB was once my favorite network, I lost it on DirecTV, and by the time I was able to get The CW (WTLH-DT2), most of the programming I cared for had either ended, or was about to end.

If they can give me an HD source, I'll watch a little more of it. If they find a way to increase their quality back to the good ol' days, I'll watch.

~Alan

SowegaBowler

12-18-08, 06:36 PM

..."My So-Called Life" was MTV...
My So-Called Life, which had a young Claire Danes playing a girl dealing with the highs and lows of teen life, was a critical fave but never gained much of an audience and ran only one year on ABC. It was later rerun on MTV and is now available for streaming on abc.com.

Alan Gordon

12-19-08, 02:38 AM

My So-Called Life, which had a young Claire Danes playing a girl dealing with the highs and lows of teen life, was a critical fave but never gained much of an audience and ran only one year on ABC. It was later rerun on MTV and is now available for streaming on abc.com.

You are correct... that's my bad as I now remember a friend of mine watching the show on WTVM (the Columbus, GA ABC affiliate)... and I should have known since that was before we got satellite (cable isn't available here).

I'm editing my post about the channel as well as the channel for La Femme Nikita as I remembered what channel that came on.

~Alan

dsmith901

12-21-08, 06:07 PM

Man, that shows how bad my memory is - I never would have thought Nikita was on USA - a low budget network at the time and not much better now. But that explains the poor video quality they had available for the DVD collection. I am just about to start the final season of Nikita on DVD. I recently purchased the first 6 seasons of Smallville when Best Buy had them on sale for $15.99 each (Season 7 was not included). I will probably wait until the Spring network reruns to start watching them.

richall01

12-22-08, 12:32 AM

I WANT MY ABC IN HD !!! Ok now I feel better!

WAR_GA

12-23-08, 02:45 PM

I am a Dish Network subscriber. I would like to anticipate the local CBS football games being delivered in HD next fall. I noticed on Direct TV's web site that they have a tenative schedule for broadcasting the local stations in the future.

I contacted Dish Network's customer service department but they just apologized for the fact that they can offer their customers no timetable.

Either they're way behind Direct TV's schedule, or they're missing a great opportunity to compete.

Can anyone give a short explaination on why this is such an issue?

richall01

12-24-08, 09:44 AM

WAR_GA

12-24-08, 10:22 AM

I would rank receiving local programming in HD high on my list of priorities when choosing a satellite provider. It's nice to get National Geographic with a pristine picture, but I watch the local channels much more often.

I guess I need to look at Direct TV or switching to cable.

Alan Gordon

12-24-08, 01:33 PM

I guess I need to look at Direct TV or switching to cable.

While I'm personally very happy with DirecTV, and would recommend them to anybody, WTLHFOXHD has already stated that Dish Network will be offering Tallahassee, FL HD-LIL very shortly.

Will I guess I need to go out back and tell the Guy installing the Dish HD equipment to stop and remove it.

Looks like D by the end of the year as they are doing the final turnup inspection this week. And Dish has installed the equipment and should do full turn up in the next few weeks.

I will note that while DirecTV will most likely add WFSU-DT "soon", Dish Network does not (with possibly one or two exceptions) offer PBS local stations at this time, so I wouldn't expect to see WFSU-DT on there.

~Alan

WAR_GA

12-24-08, 02:12 PM

Alan,

WTHLFOXHD seems to know what he's talking about. This would be great!

What does -LIL stand for?

Dawson is a long way / not in the Tallahassee DMA. Why do you keep up with this forum?

Alan Gordon

12-24-08, 02:36 PM

Alan,

WTHLFOXHD seems to know what he's talking about. This would be great!

He does indeed know what he's talking about! :)

What does -LIL stand for?

Local-Into-Local. It's the satellite companies' term for taking local channels and beaming them back to the local area. In other words, HD-LIL is local HD channels.

Dawson is a long way / not in the Tallahassee DMA. Why do you keep up with this forum?

I'm shocked you know where Dawson is, but you're correct, it's not in the Tallahassee, FL DMA. As for why I keep up with it:

Albany, GA has no ABC affiliate, no CW affiliate, and while it has a CBS affiliate, it's not viewable at my location. While I generally CBS from Columbus, GA (DD5.1) or from NY via DirecTV (MPEG4, DD5.1), I do occasionally watch WCTV-DT. I also view ABC mostly from NY (via DirecTV), the rest of my viewing is done via WTXL-DT. While I don't watch much CW programming anymore, I do my viewing either from WTLH-DT2 or from Washington, DC via DirecTV. Not to mention that lately, I've been having issues with my outdoor antenna in one room, and I haven't had time to fix it, so I'm using my indoor antenna in that room to pick up the local channels, and WFXL-DT (my local FOX affiliate) doesn't come in using that indoor antenna, so I've been watching WTLH-DT which does come in with that indoor antenna whenever I watch FOX programming in that room.

I do read a couple of other DMA threads other than Albany, Tallahassee, and Columbus, namely Savannah and Macon, but that's mainly due to habit as I often times had better luck trying to receive them via OTA back when I first got HD... but not any more.

~Alan

Trip in VA

12-24-08, 02:37 PM

Alan,

WTHLFOXHD seems to know what he's talking about. This would be great!

What does -LIL stand for?

Local Into Local (I think). I remember reading that somewhere.

Dawson is a long way / not in the Tallahassee DMA. Why do you keep up with this forum?

Virginia is even further away. He probably keeps up with it for the same reason I do--it's interesting. :)

- Trip

CapeFish

12-31-08, 10:57 PM

I read today that WTLH-DT will be adding RTN as a subchannel early next year.

- Trip

Kinda old, but I'm bringing it up: http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS231246+27-Aug-2008+GNW20080827

Will WTLH-DT have 3 sub-channels now or is The CW going bye-bye?

49.1 FOX-HD
49.2 CW Plus
49.3 RTN

dsmith901

01-01-09, 04:06 PM

Kinda old, but I'm bringing it up: http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS231246+27-Aug-2008+GNW20080827

Will WTLH-DT have 3 sub-channels now or is The CW going bye-bye?

49.1 FOX-HD
49.2 CW Plus
49.3 RTN

Any ideas what we would see on RTN? My best guess is infomercials. :confused:

And why would they drop CW?

Trip in VA

01-01-09, 04:11 PM

RTN airs infomercials from 1AM-11AM, then classic shows the rest of the time. There's tons of Leave it to Beaver on my local affiliate.

- Trip

TallahasseeWrek

01-02-09, 02:56 AM

CapeFish

01-02-09, 11:32 PM

The MLB network started at 6PM last night. Comcast in Tallahassee carries it on Ch. 279. It's available in some markets in HD. I can only hope the same is true for Tallahassee, but there's no sign of it yet.
I hope the HD version launches soon, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Comcast told me via e-mail not to expect any new HD in Tallahassee until May 2009. I don't know what will happen in May (my guess is more analog-to-digital moves), but I hope we see more HD released on Comcast Tallahassee.

BTW, you need Comcast Digital Preferred or above for MLB Network.

dsmith901

01-05-09, 10:50 AM

I wish Congress would pass a law or the FCC would mandate something requiring HD channels to carry all program material in HD when it is available in that format. I am sick and tired of seeing SD shows on HD channels 90% of the time even though the original program was HD! Universal HD appears to be the only HD channel (apart from news and sports channels) that really is HD 100% of the time. And while they are at it there should be a law against stretching 4:3 to 16:9 - ever. Just mandate that in the future all TV program material must be produced and broadcast in the 16:9 aspect regardless of SD or HD resolution!

Trip in VA

01-05-09, 10:59 AM

You'd put a lot of local stations out of business with a law like that.

- Trip

richall01

01-05-09, 11:41 AM

OK, so what is the hold-up on getting WTXL in HD on DirecTV??.?

ClarenceR

01-05-09, 11:51 AM

Ernest_T

01-05-09, 01:33 PM

OK, so what is the hold-up on getting WTXL in HD on DirecTV??.?

According to the email response I had received from WTXL last month, as well as jrcstudios' posting from 12/16, negotiations were still ongoing at the corporate level for this. I've not heard anything new since then, and jrcstudios has even said we may know about the addition before he knows. In any event, I'll keep checking about once a week to see if they've been added to the channel listing. New LILs have usually been added on Wednesdays, so I'd wait until later in the week to check.

richall01

01-05-09, 03:38 PM

According to the email response I had received from WTXL last month, as well as jrcstudios' posting from 12/16, negotiations were still ongoing at the corporate level for this.

Is there anyway to email corporate?

PBSengineer

01-05-09, 04:13 PM

Is there anyway to email corporate?

Well, that interested me, so I did research. Oddly Calkins Media, the owner, has no web site. None of the station websites even mention them. Their newspapers websites (the one that exists - in this day and age only 3 of 8 papers share a website - low rent) do not mention them.

Odd.

dsmith901

01-06-09, 10:07 AM

If one is going to deal with the Big Boys, one would have use a better rationale than "I'm not being properly entertained." ;)

How about this: Broadcasters were hugely subsidized with tax-payer dollars (that's you and me) to transmit DTV and to make the costly change-over to digital television, and therefore those who are paying for EVERYTHING, through tax dollars, subscription fees, and commercials, are entitled to the best use of the broadcast spectrum so that the costly widescreen TVs we are required to buy to enjoy digital TV are not wasted on non-widescreen material 90% OF THE TIME! Bottom line - we (the taxpayers) paid for it so we get to make the rules!

Alan Gordon

01-06-09, 12:52 PM

I wish Congress would pass a law or the FCC would mandate something requiring HD channels to carry all program material in HD when it is available in that format.

I too would LOVE for HD channels to carry all programming available in HD, in HD, but I understand that sometimes, it's not going to happen. I know we've discussed "Star Trek: Enterprise" airing in SD on Sci-Fi, because HDNet has the sole rights to air ST:E in HD. When Sci-Fi got the rights to air ST:E, they didn't have an HD channel, and they weren't thinking ahead. Sadly, this is true for several cases as Sci-Fi has aired several shows in SD that HDNet airs, or has aired in HD ("Wolf Lake", "Joan Of Arcadia", etc).

Universal HD appears to be the only HD channel (apart from news and sports channels) that really is HD 100% of the time.

I have several channels besides Universal HD on DirecTV that way. HDNet, Crime & Investigation HD, as well as documentary channels like Discovery HD Theater, Smithsonian HD, Palladia HD, etc...

That being said, HGTV-HD and FOOD-HD USED to air HD during the day and evening (some infomercials at night weren't), but later went to simulcasting their SD channels... which means airing quite a bit of upconverted STRETCHED SD programming. Their STATED reasons for doing so? People complained when they wanted to watch a program that was on the SD channel... and it wasn't available on the HD channel. Personally, I would have preferred that they simply synced up their schedules when the program was available in HD and put different HD programming on when the SD channel was airing a program not available in HD... but I would imagine that wouldn't sit well with some either.

And while they are at it there should be a law against stretching 4:3 to 16:9 - ever.

I wouldn't go so far as to say there should be a law, but I agree. Hopefully, people will one day start to demand that.

Just mandate that in the future all TV program material must be produced and broadcast in the 16:9 aspect regardless of SD or HD resolution!

I think it's only a matter of time before all FUTURE programming is produced in 16x9... even if it's only SD. However, outside of cropping, there is no way to ever broadcast all programming in 16x9 unless they get rid of all older programming on TV, and personally, I don't want to see such classics as "The Andy Griffith Show", "The Cosby Show", and more disappear from TV as they are often better than 99.9% of the programming on TV today. Heck, shows like "The Andy Griffith Show", "I Love Lucy", etc will look a lot better than they do now since they can actually be converted to HDTV. As an owner of "The Day The Earth Stood Still" on Blu-ray, I'm impressed with how great some of these older movies/shows look even though they are pillarboxed (black bars on the sides).

How about this: Broadcasters were hugely subsidized with tax-payer dollars (that's you and me) to transmit DTV and to make the costly change-over to digital television, and therefore those who are paying for EVERYTHING, through tax dollars, subscription fees, and commercials, are entitled to the best use of the broadcast spectrum so that the costly widescreen TVs we are required to buy to enjoy digital TV are not wasted on non-widescreen material 90% OF THE TIME! Bottom line - we (the taxpayers) paid for it so we get to make the rules!

Technically, broadcasters (NBC, FOX, ABC, CBS) are the only ones required to switch to DTV, and HDTV is optional... and they simply do not have access to 24/7 HD. For instance, not every network provides 24x7 HD programming, and a lot of syndicated programming simply isn't available in HD yet, and those that are require expensive equipment that simply isn't very cost-efficient for stations in smaller markets... yet! I guess the NAB could ask for a "bail-out", but well, preferably, I'd rather wait until they can do it themselves.

As for the widescreen TVs, well, technically, we are not required to get them. For instance, I have a TiVo Series 3 HD-DVR hooked up a 50-inch SDTV in one room to pick up local channels, and the PQ is FAR superior to any analog channel I can pick up via antenna or SD channel on DirecTV. Heck, watching "The Simpsons" or "King Of The Hill" on FOX (zoomed in) on my 50-inch SDTV looks far superior to the DVD versions... both in color and lack of compression.

Also, I believe that all of the broadcast networks (not sure about MyNetworkTV or The CW) offer a whole lot more HD programming than 10%.

~Alan

jmb04law

01-07-09, 09:47 AM

According to the email response I had received from WTXL last month, as well as jrcstudios' posting from 12/16, negotiations were still ongoing at the corporate level for this. I've not heard anything new since then, and jrcstudios has even said we may know about the addition before he knows. In any event, I'll keep checking about once a week to see if they've been added to the channel listing. New LILs have usually been added on Wednesdays, so I'd wait until later in the week to check.

This is the only thing I'm waiting on to switch from Comcast to Directv. Maybe if Directv knows they are losing business because they aren't offering all the basic network stations in HD that will speed up the negotiations. You hear that Directv? You'll have another customer as soon as you add ABC :D

Ross Moody

01-09-09, 10:50 AM

How about this: Broadcasters were hugely subsidized with tax-payer dollars (that's you and me) to transmit DTV and to make the costly change-over to digital television, and therefore those who are paying for EVERYTHING, through tax dollars, subscription fees, and commercials, are entitled to the best use of the broadcast spectrum so that the costly widescreen TVs we are required to buy to enjoy digital TV are not wasted on non-widescreen material 90% OF THE TIME! Bottom line - we (the taxpayers) paid for it so we get to make the rules!

I support the idea that we tax payers should make the rules or at least see some evidence of it. Our news paper 1/09/2009 headlines,"Obama: Delay Digital TV" appears that we have no say. What say you-all????:mad:

Alan Gordon

01-09-09, 01:27 PM

I support the idea that we tax payers should make the rules or at least see some evidence of it. Our news paper 1/09/2009 headlines,"Obama: Delay Digital TV" appears that we have no say. What say you-all????:mad:

Quite a few people were expecting it to be delayed... I personally didn't, and I still don't.

From what I've read, stations are tired of paying the power for two transmitters, and intend on switching analog off in February regardless of whether or not "The Big Switch" is delayed unless the government makes it illegal for them to do so.

Could any of you local engineers give us a rough estimate on how big a monthly power bill is for a full powered TV station. It's been a while since I've read it, and I'd love to know?!

~Alan<~~~~~~~~~~Who is hoping this conversation stays away from the political aspects and focuses on the issue...

PBSengineer

01-09-09, 03:00 PM

Full power UHF = appx. $30,000/month.

One thing to consider is that the analog transmitters are probably all mostly old. The transmitter manufacturers stopped making them because of the transition and parts are hard to find. I would think that a lot of stations are like me and are not doing much maintenance because it will be scrap in a month. If it had to last another 4 or 5 months, that could be interesting.

Alan Gordon

01-09-09, 04:02 PM

Full power UHF = appx. $30,000/month

:eek:

That sounds a lot more like the figure I heard some time ago (compared to the $7,000 I read earlier today regarding "nightlight" filings).

I would imagine the power companies are for the delay! :D

~Alan

SowegaBowler

01-09-09, 09:51 PM

I support the idea that we tax payers should make the rules or at least see some evidence of it. Our news paper 1/09/2009 headlines,"Obama: Delay Digital TV" appears that we have no say. What say you-all????:mad:
I personally don't think the transition will be delayed any longer; many stations have already committed so much time and resources to meet the 2/17/09 deadline (some of which have ended analog broadcasts entirely); besides, the legislation process is so complicated that any such bill will probably not pass before 2/17.

That said, I don't really care when the switchover occurs, as long as it's done-I've been prepared for months now.:)

dsmith901

01-12-09, 02:24 PM

I too would LOVE for HD channels to carry all programming available in HD, in HD, but I understand that sometimes, it's not going to happen. I know we've discussed "Star Trek: Enterprise" airing in SD on Sci-Fi, because HDNet has the sole rights to air ST:E in HD. When Sci-Fi got the rights to air ST:E, they didn't have an HD channel, and they weren't thinking ahead. Sadly, this is true for several cases as Sci-Fi has aired several shows in SD that HDNet airs, or has aired in HD ("Wolf Lake", "Joan Of Arcadia", etc).

I have several channels besides Universal HD on DirecTV that way. HDNet, Crime & Investigation HD, as well as documentary channels like Discovery HD Theater, Smithsonian HD, Palladia HD, etc...

That being said, HGTV-HD and FOOD-HD USED to air HD during the day and evening (some infomercials at night weren't), but later went to simulcasting their SD channels... which means airing quite a bit of upconverted STRETCHED SD programming. Their STATED reasons for doing so? People complained when they wanted to watch a program that was on the SD channel... and it wasn't available on the HD channel. Personally, I would have preferred that they simply synced up their schedules when the program was available in HD and put different HD programming on when the SD channel was airing a program not available in HD... but I would imagine that wouldn't sit well with some either.

I wouldn't go so far as to say there should be a law, but I agree. Hopefully, people will one day start to demand that.

I think it's only a matter of time before all FUTURE programming is produced in 16x9... even if it's only SD. However, outside of cropping, there is no way to ever broadcast all programming in 16x9 unless they get rid of all older programming on TV, and personally, I don't want to see such classics as "The Andy Griffith Show", "The Cosby Show", and more disappear from TV as they are often better than 99.9% of the programming on TV today. Heck, shows like "The Andy Griffith Show", "I Love Lucy", etc will look a lot better than they do now since they can actually be converted to HDTV. As an owner of "The Day The Earth Stood Still" on Blu-ray, I'm impressed with how great some of these older movies/shows look even though they are pillarboxed (black bars on the sides).

Technically, broadcasters (NBC, FOX, ABC, CBS) are the only ones required to switch to DTV, and HDTV is optional... and they simply do not have access to 24/7 HD. For instance, not every network provides 24x7 HD programming, and a lot of syndicated programming simply isn't available in HD yet, and those that are require expensive equipment that simply isn't very cost-efficient for stations in smaller markets... yet! I guess the NAB could ask for a "bail-out", but well, preferably, I'd rather wait until they can do it themselves.

As for the widescreen TVs, well, technically, we are not required to get them. For instance, I have a TiVo Series 3 HD-DVR hooked up a 50-inch SDTV in one room to pick up local channels, and the PQ is FAR superior to any analog channel I can pick up via antenna or SD channel on DirecTV. Heck, watching "The Simpsons" or "King Of The Hill" on FOX (zoomed in) on my 50-inch SDTV looks far superior to the DVD versions... both in color and lack of compression.

Also, I believe that all of the broadcast networks (not sure about MyNetworkTV or The CW) offer a whole lot more HD programming than 10%.

~Alan

I realize all of the above, but what concerns me is I see no initiative or incentives for anything to change as we move forward. And if that is true it is entirely likely that 5 years or more from now we will still be watching 4:3 and SD (stretched or otherwise) most of the time on so-called HD channels. The fact is SD is cheaper than HD, and unless there is some mandate or other requirement to force the issue, most broadcasters will continue to do as much as they can get by with on the cheap. Remember, digital TV and HDTV was sold to the public as a great leap forward in picture quality, but if 90% of what is transmitted (including SD and mostly faux HD channels) then the public has been lied to, at least as far as broadcast viewing is concerned. I guess with Blu-Ray being mandated as a replacement for SD DVD then I guess we will have to settle for getting real HD on pre-recorded discs, downloads, or whatever, just not from OTA, cable, or satellite transmission.

ClarenceR

01-12-09, 04:46 PM

I realize all of the above, but what concerns me is I see no initiative or incentives for anything to change as we move forward. And if that is true it is entirely likely that 5 years or more from now we will still be watching 4:3 and SD (stretched or otherwise) most of the time on so-called HD channels.
Last year, programs like Survivor and the Price is Right and WWE and 60 Minutes went HD. More are being produced in HD format. I don't think we'll ever see 100% HD in a very long time but things have been improving.
The fact is SD is cheaper than HD, and unless there is some mandate or other requirement to force the issue, most broadcasters will continue to do as much as they can get by with on the cheap.
What mandate? Tax breaks for broadcasters? Tax breaks for production companies who use HD equipment? Penalties for companies who produce/broadcast in SD?

How would you present this to a group of people with far different taste in arts and entertainment than you?

How would you present this to a general population who believes that just turning on a HD set with analog cable automatically makes things HD or won't seek HD content?

How would you do this in these times where are supposedly other issues that are more concerning than whether or not Jerry Springer will finally go HD?
Remember, digital TV and HDTV was sold to the public as a great leap forward in picture quality, but if 90% of what is transmitted (including SD and mostly faux HD channels) then the public has been lied to, at least as far as broadcast viewing is concerned.
No one was lied to as far as quantity of HD programming is concerned. When one of the goals of the U.S. digital transition is for the government is to receive a nice windfall then issues like how viewers are going to be precisely entertained or informed are non-priorities.
I guess with Blu-Ray being mandated as a replacement for SD DVD then I guess we will have to settle for getting real HD on pre-recorded discs, downloads, or whatever, just not from OTA, cable, or satellite transmission.
Blu-ray is not a mandate.

I'd rather just record the HD shows on broadcast TV and watch them on my own schedule. There are specialty devices that connect to TVs which receive a network signal from PCs thus allowing viewing of HD without the hassle of staring at a monitor.

TV viewership is moving towards a "Video on Demand" mentality so worrying about whether XYZ is broadcasting 6 hours instead of 24 hours of HD content today doesn't worry me.

SowegaBowler

01-12-09, 06:48 PM

PBSengineer

01-13-09, 09:45 AM

WTLH has requested permission from the FCC to end analog broadcasting on or after 1/18/09:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101288898&formid=910&fac_num=23486

OK. the rules say that they must have let the public know with announcements 4 times a day for the 60 days prior to the termination date. Has anyone seen any of these announcements? The application was filed Friday 1/9/09 and says that THE LICENSEE HAS ALREADY STARTED NOTIFYING ITS VIEWERS OF ITS PROPOSED EARLY ANALOG TERMINATION AND WILL AIR THE REQUIRED NOTIFICATIONS BY THE DATE OF TERMINATION Sounds like they are trying to pull a fast one.

Alan Gordon

01-13-09, 12:41 PM

ClarenceR basically said what I wanted to say, but I did want to add a few things:

Remember, digital TV and HDTV was sold to the public as a great leap forward in picture quality, but if 90% of what is transmitted (including SD and mostly faux HD channels) then the public has been lied to, at least as far as broadcast viewing is concerned.

Last year, programs like Survivor and the Price is Right and WWE and 60 Minutes went HD. More are being produced in HD format.

"Scrubs" just went HD once it made the jump to ABC. "Live With Regis And Kelly" just went HD, "Ellen" went HD not too long ago, "Entertainment Tonight". Other syndication is going HD too... like "Two And A Half Men", "Seinfeld", etc. As more and more people buy into HD, networks will cater more to HD viewers. There will be incentive... but it's going to take time!

I guess with Blu-Ray being mandated as a replacement for SD DVD then I guess we will have to settle for getting real HD on pre-recorded discs, downloads, or whatever, just not from OTA, cable, or satellite transmission.

Blu-ray isn't a mandated replacement for SD DVD... just a "positioned" replacement for SD DVD. There will be some percentage of people who simply stick with DVD... especially until things get better.

Other than the lack of CW in HD, and a cable channel or two, I'm quite pleased with the amount of HD I get from OTA and satellite myself. :)

~Alan

SowegaBowler

01-13-09, 02:53 PM

OK. the rules say that they must have let the public know with announcements 4 times a day for the 60 days prior to the termination date. Has anyone seen any of these announcements? The application was filed Friday 1/9/09 and says that THE LICENSEE HAS ALREADY STARTED NOTIFYING ITS VIEWERS OF ITS PROPOSED EARLY ANALOG TERMINATION AND WILL AIR THE REQUIRED NOTIFICATIONS BY THE DATE OF TERMINATION Sounds like they are trying to pull a fast one.
They plan to shut off analog Jan. 19; they are already running announcements on air and on their site:

http://www.myfoxtallahassee.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=8235691&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1

PBSengineer

01-13-09, 02:59 PM

I reiterate. They must tell the public 60 days before they go dark if they do it early. The web page was created 1/12/09; hardly 60 days prior to 1/18/09... or is this just Fox fuzzy math?

Falcon_77

01-13-09, 10:31 PM

I reiterate. They must tell the public 60 days before they go dark if they do it early. The web page was created 1/12/09; hardly 60 days prior to 1/18/09... or is this just Fox fuzzy math?

Have they been airing messages on the broadcast noting the early end? If so, when did they start. Stations are allowed to end analog operations within 90 days of 2/17/09, assuming proper notice is given.

According to their latest transition report (Form 387), they could have turned off analog before 12/31/08, but this does not relieve them of their obligations to inform the public of the early end to analog.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101272881&formid=387&fac_num=23486

Exhibit 3
Description: ANALOG SHUT OFF

AS PERMITTED BY THE FCC RULES, LICENSEE MAY DISCONTINUE ITS ANALOG SERVICE WITHIN THE 90 DAY PERIOD PRIOR TO THE DTV TRANSITION DATE. LICENSEE IS NOT CERTAIN OF AN EXACT DATE AT THIS TIME, BUT ANTICIPATES THIS MAY BE DONE BEFORE DECEMBER 31, 2008.

dsmith901

01-15-09, 03:22 PM

So no one else here is bothered at all by the lack of true HD material on HD channels?

As for Blu-Ray not being mandated, just wait a couple of years when your DVD player breaks and you try to replace it, or when you want to buy a new movie in the DVD format and find it is available in BD only. You will be in the same boat as VCR owners.

Alan Gordon

01-15-09, 06:08 PM

So no one else here is bothered at all by the lack of true HD material on HD channels?

No! Basically, every show I watch is in HD.

Granted, I don't always have access to that show. For instance, last year, I was disappointed that DirecTV did not add AMC-HD to their lineup so I could watch S2 of "Mad Men"... but I wasn't able to get around to finishing S1 on Blu-ray anyway, and I doubt that AMC-HD could have competed with my Blu-ray copy (which has EXCELLENT PQ). I'm also disappointed in the lack of Hallmark Movie Channel and Lifetime-HD (believe it or not, I actually like some of their Christmas movies... even if most of their non-syndicated programming is crap).

I'm also disappointed in the local affiliates' ability to offer syndicated programming in HD. Programming like "Wheel Of Fortune", "Jeopardy", "Entertainment Tonight", "The Insider", "Live With Regis And Kelly", "Dr. Phil", "The Oprah Winfrey Show", "CSI: Crime Scene Investigation", "CSI: NY", "Lost", "Star Trek", "Two And A Half Men", "The Legend Of The Seeker", etc. Granted, I don't really watch many of those, and some of them, I have access to via other cable channels, and CBS and ABC out of NY... but I still wish the local ones had the ability to do so as well.

Hopefully, once the digital transition is over with, the stations will be able to invest some of the money they're currently spending on their analog signal to upgrade their equipment to do so.

As for Blu-Ray not being mandated, just wait a couple of years when your DVD player breaks and you try to replace it, or when you want to buy a new movie in the DVD format and find it is available in BD only. You will be in the same boat as VCR owners.

The big name companies (Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, etc...) will stop making DVD players in a couple of years, but people will most likely still have the ability to buy some Chinese DVD players if they don't want a Blu-ray player. The majority of people probably won't care if they get a Blu-ray player or not since it will play DVDs as well... and they don't even have to buy a Blu-ray if they don't want to! Personally, I don't intend on ever getting another DVD player, and I suspect most the people I know will probably feel the same way in a couple of years.

As for VCR owners, I only know ONE person who does not have a DVD player, but they generally only watch TV, and movies on TV, so it doesn't really affect them.

~Alan

sbturner

01-15-09, 07:09 PM

Hey, WTLH, with the gov't looking at delaying the DTV transition does that change WTLH's plan to go full power with digital signal. Meaning they would not go full power on Feb. 17th? Would you guys wait until the time of the transition? I hope not I have been waiting for ABC in HD for it seems 2 years now.

Alan Gordon

01-15-09, 07:23 PM

sbturner

01-16-09, 07:37 AM

My bad WTLH and Alan, I ment WTXL. Anybody got any word if a delay will push their Feb. 17 full power plans back?

PBSengineer

01-16-09, 07:58 AM

Let's have no more talk of delaying the transition.
But it it were delayed (Obama forbid), WTXL would have to dalay full power since they plan to just change the exciter in their existing ch 27 transmitter. The ch 22 transmitter they are using for low power will then go away.

No, no delay, do the change now.

CapeFish

01-16-09, 09:22 AM

I cannot wait for February 17th. I made sure my elderly OTA-only neighbors are digital and made sure elderly family members had their DTV converters set up right with their antennas aimed properly.

My most difficult station to receive is WTWC because it is on Channel 2, but once they go back to Channel 40, WFSU will be the most difficult for me. That being said, with all of our locals going to UHF and WABW-DT moving the Channel 6, rabbit ears should be suffice for me.

As for WTXL, they have been airing any programs they get not only from ABC but also syndicated shows like Live with Regis and Kelly in HD which is a first for this market.

I believe from previous postings by PBSengineer that WFSU cannot do any HD unless it is live from PBS. I tried to watch This Old House last night and it was in SD which was disappointing due to the fact I had small black bars on all four sides (this format is nice for 4:3 SD but letterboxed SD is tough). Even though HD is not an option, is there a way to record a widescreen program so that way we have 16:9 SD?

As for WTLH, I have been noticing several notices per day about their early transition since I got back after the holidays. I've noticed improvements in their picture quality. I wonder if they have anything coming in terms of local or syndicated HD.

IB McGinty

01-16-09, 11:08 AM

My bad WTLH and Alan, I ment WTXL. Anybody got any word if a delay will push their Feb. 17 full power plans back?
Does anyone know at what strength/power level WTXL is currently broadcasting? I live in eastern Leon County (Buck Lake Rd. area) and I currently cannot receive their digital signal OTA, although I receive WTLH and WCTV just fine. Thanks.

Trip in VA

01-16-09, 01:16 PM

Does anyone know at what strength/power level WTXL is currently broadcasting? I live in eastern Leon County (Buck Lake Rd. area) and I currently cannot receive their digital signal OTA, although I receive WTLH and WCTV just fine. Thanks.

1597' 8.7 kW.

On channel 27, that will increase to 1699' 1000 kW.

- Trip

GraysonPeddie

01-18-09, 09:19 PM

I'm in for ABC HD, too. I've had trouble positioning my Channel Master 4221 just to get the signal from ABC HD up to 60 to 70% strength, but it's not enough. So for that, I'll just be recording Eyewitness News using my Windows Media Center (non-TV Pack). :(

It'd be nice if WTXL could do the same as WTLH, but I'm afraid that's not going to happen. :(

Trek2000

01-19-09, 10:05 AM

Well it looks like WTLH did cut off their analog signal off at 12:00am this morning.

jrcstudios

01-19-09, 10:54 AM

My bad WTLH and Alan, I ment WTXL. Anybody got any word if a delay will push their Feb. 17 full power plans back?

If us engineers have anything to do with it, WTXL will be keeping our Feb 17 date. However, it should be noted that the President of The United States has more power than we do when it comes to screwing things up and causing more confusion. The only way we can make Digital at full power is to get rid of Analog completely. So a delay in turning the analog off means we will still be at low power digital.

1597' 8.7 kW.
On channel 27, that will increase to 1699' 1000 kW.
- Trip

Thanks Trip, I couldn't have said it better myself. As for an answer with less numbers; If you can get WCTV's digital now, you will be able to get our digital after Feb 17 (provided Obama doesn't screw with our plan) as we are both transmitting in the same area with roughly the same power.

GraysonPeddie

01-19-09, 01:50 PM

Yeah, I can get WCTV, WTLH, and WFSU just fine... My signal strength is between 90 to 100% with my Channel Master 4221 (indoor in my apartment). I don't care about the analog.

Alan Gordon

01-19-09, 03:28 PM

In building means more people will be able to use indoor antennas.

Well it looks like WTLH did cut off their analog signal off at 12:00am this morning.

Has anyone gotten better reception of WTLH-DT since they cut off analog... or is this going to be a delayed thing... because I tried to see if I could get better reception of WTLH-DT (last night and today) with an indoor antenna, and it was "splotchy" last night, and non-existent today. Granted, it's been colder and I have better luck picking up WTLH-DT with an indoor antenna when it's warmer outside, but I'm just curious?! Outdoor antenna reception works fine.

Also, WTLHFOXHD, if you're not too busy and are here lurking, Tribune Media Services should be alerted to your cut off of analog service as I still have WTLH 49 showing up on my TiVos... and that might be confusing to some people. If you can't get around to it, let me know and I'll try and contact TiVo about it.

The only way we can make Digital at full power is to get rid of Analog completely. So a delay in turning the analog off means we will still be at low power digital.

I still can't believe that I can receive WTXL-DT pretty darn reliable (some issues during the day, or cold) some 70+ miles away, but people much closer still have issues.

~Alan

richall01

01-19-09, 05:04 PM

There is still no reason why those of us with DirecTV can't get WTXL in HD???

mahicks

01-19-09, 06:41 PM

I currently live outside of Havana, FL and have a Antennas direct clearstream 2 antenna mounted outside on a 39" J mast (like dish or direct tv mast)

My signal cable runs 10' to a single splitter using a high quality splitter and then runs to two tvs. on cable length is 15' the other 20'. The shorter length goes to a Dishnetwork VIP722. I get ABC,CBS, and FOX at 88 to 100 % signal strength on this receiver. The 20" split goes to a dishnetwork VIP 622. I get ABC and FOX at around 80% signal strength. CBS gets 80-91% signal strength. My problem is that CBS suffers from constant microfreezes and short periods of "lost signal"

To remedy this, I bought a clear stream preamp. This caused zero signal on all TV's. Im sure it was defective. I then purchased a 2 port HDTV amplifier made for channel master from Solid Signal. here is the link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001BMKNZI

I put this in place of the splitter. I now get pretty much 100% signal on all three networks on the short cable run and 90-98% on the longer cable run. Unfortunately, while they are far less frequent, and for MUCH shorter time periods, I still get minor freezing and short "hiccups" on CBS.

All cable is quad shield RG6 except for the longer run. It is brand new 3000mhz sweep tested RG6 from Dishnetwork with brand new connectors. I am not sure if it is quad shield though.

Does anyone have any ideas of a fix? I am thinking of swapping the dishnetwork cable to my own quad shield but I do not have a compression tool so mine would be crimps. I can also cut off about 3 feet of the longer run. I do not want to have to go higher with the antenna as it seems to be fine as far as signal strength is concerned. I am starting to think the VIP 622 is not as good as the VIP 722 in regards to OTA strength and am thinking of contacting dishnetwork for a swap if possible....

Thanks in advance!
Michael

Trek2000

01-19-09, 07:46 PM

I get breakups on WCTV from time to time it seems to have very little to do with signal strength.

mahicks

01-19-09, 08:56 PM

I get breakups on WCTV from time to time it seems to have very little to do with signal strength.

yeah, I thought the same thing, but I have watched over 50 hours of WCTV in the home theater room (short run on the VIP 722) and never had even the first microfreeze that I can recall.

dsmith901

01-20-09, 05:59 PM

No! Basically, every show I watch is in HD.

Granted, I don't always have access to that show. For instance, last year, I was disappointed that DirecTV did not add AMC-HD to their lineup so I could watch S2 of "Mad Men"... but I wasn't able to get around to finishing S1 on Blu-ray anyway, and I doubt that AMC-HD could have competed with my Blu-ray copy (which has EXCELLENT PQ). I'm also disappointed in the lack of Hallmark Movie Channel and Lifetime-HD (believe it or not, I actually like some of their Christmas movies... even if most of their non-syndicated programming is crap).

I'm also disappointed in the local affiliates' ability to offer syndicated programming in HD. Programming like "Wheel Of Fortune", "Jeopardy", "Entertainment Tonight", "The Insider", "Live With Regis And Kelly", "Dr. Phil", "The Oprah Winfrey Show", "CSI: Crime Scene Investigation", "CSI: NY", "Lost", "Star Trek", "Two And A Half Men", "The Legend Of The Seeker", etc. Granted, I don't really watch many of those, and some of them, I have access to via other cable channels, and CBS and ABC out of NY... but I still wish the local ones had the ability to do so as well.

Hopefully, once the digital transition is over with, the stations will be able to invest some of the money they're currently spending on their analog signal to upgrade their equipment to do so.

The big name companies (Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, etc...) will stop making DVD players in a couple of years, but people will most likely still have the ability to buy some Chinese DVD players if they don't want a Blu-ray player. The majority of people probably won't care if they get a Blu-ray player or not since it will play DVDs as well... and they don't even have to buy a Blu-ray if they don't want to! Personally, I don't intend on ever getting another DVD player, and I suspect most the people I know will probably feel the same way in a couple of years.

As for VCR owners, I only know ONE person who does not have a DVD player, but they generally only watch TV, and movies on TV, so it doesn't really affect them.

~Alan

Alan, I am a little confused - you say you watch almost nothing except HD and yet you name a lot of shows you watch that are not, and you want local affiliates to give you more HD. What percent of the "HD" shows that you watch on HD channels have sidebars? I assume you know that if what you are watching has sidebars it is not true HD. If you subscribe to the HD only package at DirectTV then I can see how you are unaware most of us get our programming with a ton of non-HD channels, which is why it is so frustrating that the HD channels we do get don't give us true HD more often.

Alan Gordon

01-20-09, 07:03 PM

Alan, I am a little confused - you say you watch almost nothing except HD and yet you name a lot of shows you watch that are not, and you want local affiliates to give you more HD.

I watch a considerable amount of SD... on an SDTV. Shows like "The Andy Griffith Show", "Frasier", "The Cosby Show", "The Simpsons", "King Of The Hill", etc... I just don't watch much new programming in SD... and the majority of the "new" shows I watch in SD are available in HD... I just might not have access to it (CW-HD, AMC-HD, Lifetime-HD, Hallmark Channel HD, etc...).

The shows that I mentioned by name aren't really shows I watch... they are simply syndicated shows that air in HD should the station have the right equipment. Some of them I can receive via NY stations on DirecTV.

"Wheel Of Fortune": I can receive this in HD via WABC-HD on DirecTV.
"Jeopardy": I can receive this in HD via WABC-HD on DirecTV.
"Entertainment Tonight": I can receive this in HD via WCBS-HD on DirecTV.
"The Insider": I can receive this in HD via WCBS-HD on DirecTV.
"Live With Regis And Kelly": I can receive this in HD via WABC-HD on DirecTV.
"Dr. Phil": I can receive this in HD via WCBS-HD on DirecTV.
"The Oprah Winfrey Show": I can receive this in HD via WABC-HD on DirecTV.
"CSI: Crime Scene Investigation": I can receive this via SpikeTV-HD
"CSI: NY": I can receive this in HD via WCBS-HD on DirecTV (as well as SpikeTV-HD).
"Lost": I can receive this in HD via WABC-HD on DirecTV... as well as SciFi-HD.
"Star Trek": I cannot receive this in HD via DirecTV.
"Two And A Half Men": I cannot receive this in HD via DirecTV.
"The Legend Of The Seeker": I cannot receive this in HD via DirecTV.

I also forgot to mention "CSI: Miami" (which I can receive via WCBS-HD), "The View" (which I can receive via WABC-HD), and "Seinfeld" (which I can receive via TBS-HD).

I don't really watch any of the above, but I do want ALL affiliates to be able to offer syndicated programming in HD. I am aware that it costs a lot of money to do so... so I'm hoping that more affiliates will start to upgrade their equipment (DD5.1 for WCTV-DT/WSWG-DT would be nice as well) once the digital transition is complete and they don't have to put out so much money for a secondary transmitter.

What percent of the "HD" shows that you watch on HD channels have sidebars? I assume you know that if what you are watching has sidebars it is not true HD.

I can't say I watch ANY programs with sidebars. I do watch "The Simpsons" on WFXL-DT/WTLH-DT, but I usually watch them on a 4x3 SDTV, so I simply zoom in and no more bars. While it's generally the case that if you have sidebars, it's not HD, it doesn't have to be the case. HDNet is a firm believer in OAR (Original Aspect Ratio), so several movies have aired in "pillarboxed" form on HDNet Movies over the years. They, as well as Universal HD have aired several older TV shows in 4x3 HD as well. They were "true HD". I'm wanting to say there has been several cases of programming airing in 4x3 HD over the years.

If you subscribe to the HD only package at DirectTV then I can see how you are unaware most of us get our programming with a ton of non-HD channels, which is why it is so frustrating that the HD channels we do get don't give us true HD more often.

DirecTV doesn't have an HD-only package (that's Dish Network), so I still get a lot of SD channels... along with a TON of HD channels as well... (Comedy Central HD being added this week).

My point was simply that networks have consistently added new programming in HD, and more and more syndication is going HD. Plus, let's not forget that what's being aired in HD now, should be aired in HD in the future. For instance, I'm really looking forward to "Invasion" and "Moonlight" reruns coming to SciFi this week, as I'm looking forward to seeing them again now that I have a better HDTV.

IB McGinty

01-21-09, 08:31 AM

I also forgot to mention "CSI: Miami" (which I can receive via WCBS-HD), "The View" (which I can receive via WABC-HD), and "Seinfeld" (which I can receive via TBS-HD).

Can somebody explain how the 'Seinfeld' episodes are in HD on TBS-HD? There's no way they were filmed with HD cameras, yet by all outward appearances the episodes appear to be in high def (at least to my semi-trained eye). I don't detect any of that 'stretching' nonsense either, but maybe I haven't looked closely enough. There appears to be some zooming but not much. I'm just curious how those episodes were converted to HD (if they really are in true HD).

Trip in VA

01-21-09, 09:00 AM

sfoltz

01-21-09, 09:02 AM

I do not know whether they were shot with HD cameras or not, but if they were filmed, then that is HD. Just check out Hogan's Heroes on HDNET. Old movies would look great in HD so that is why I wish TCM would go hidef.

sfoltz

01-21-09, 09:05 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seinfeld#Seinfeld_in_HD

- Trip
Just what I figured. People need to understand that
it is not necesarily the source that had low resolution, but it was the transmission standard, i.e., NTSC that had the low resolution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC

An informative article can also be found here about film and HD:

http://blogs.msdn.com/ptorr/archive/2007/09/26/why-old-films-still-benefit-from-high-def.aspx

Alan Gordon

01-21-09, 03:26 PM

Can somebody explain how the 'Seinfeld' episodes are in HD on TBS-HD? There's no way they were filmed with HD cameras, yet by all outward appearances the episodes appear to be in high def (at least to my semi-trained eye). I don't detect any of that 'stretching' nonsense either, but maybe I haven't looked closely enough. There appears to be some zooming but not much. I'm just curious how those episodes were converted to HD (if they really are in true HD).

Trip In VA and sfoltz already explained it, but I did want to add something.

Outside of live events (sports, award shows), documentaries, and some "reality" programming ("American Idol", etc...), most programming you watch in HD was not filmed with an HD camera. Most of it was filmed, and then converted to HD (think of scanning a photo with your scanner at very high resolutions). While there are some shows "filmed" with HD cameras, like the SciFi original series "Sanctuary", most, like "Lost", the CSIs, etc., are converted to HD... just like "Seinfeld".

I do not know whether they were shot with HD cameras or not, but if they were filmed, then that is HD. Just check out Hogan's Heroes on HDNET.

Exactly!

It's always fascinated me that older series like "I Love Lucy", "The Andy Griffith Show", and even "My Mother The Car" can easily be transferred to HD, but a lot of series from the 80s and 90s can never be transferred to HD.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about, most shows in the 80s and 90s were recorded on tape instead of film ("Seinfeld" being one of the few exceptions). What this amounts to is some very odd occurences like "Star Trek". Paramount started converting the old 60's "Star Trek" series to HD a few years ago... which was fairly easy for most scenes, but they also chose to redo the SFX scenes with CGI. It has aired in HD in syndication, been released on HD DVD, and is expected on Blu-ray later this year. However, "Star Trek: The Next Generation" from the 80s-90s is very different. While it was originally believed to have been shot on tape, it's now believed that film recordings do exist, but only unfinished recordings as the show added SFX in on tape, as well as edited the show on tape. So, to get ST:TNG in HD, Paramount would have to invest MILLIONS to not only replace the SFX, when there is considerably more than the original show (not counting the fact that TNG aired for more seasons than TOS), but also to RE-EDIT the entire series. Which is not to say that they won't ever, because people have been proven wrong before...

... like with "Firefly". "Firefly" for those who aren't aware, is a short-lived Fox series from creator Joss Whedon, which grew into a cult-phenomonon, and later spawned a feature film ("Serenity"), and remains one of Fox's best selling TV-On-DVD titles, if not the best. Years back, when rumors started swirling of Fox creating a HD-only channel (ala UniversalHD) to showcase their properties, one of the most requested series was "Firefly" which led many people to state it would NEVER be available in HD regardless of the fact that the series was filmed due to the fact that SFX was done in 480p resolution. Years later, "Firefly" popped up on UniversalHD proving "many people" only half-right. UniversalHD aired the series with the SFX scenes "upconverted", and the regular scenes in full 1080i resolution. Fox debuted it on Blu-ray last year with the SFX "upconverted" and the regular scenes in 1080p... as well as a boost in audio specs (the original FOX airings were 2.0, the DVDs were 2.0, UniversalHD airings were 2.0, but the Blu-ray specs are 5.1 DTS-HD MA).

Old movies would look great in HD so that is why I wish TCM would go hidef.

Yeah, I think my favorite thing about Blu-ray is seeing some of these OLDER movies look so great. "The Day The Earth Stood Still" being one of my favorites for PQ...

~Alan