Pioneer Elite Pro-510 problem [Text View] - Page 5

Mr Bob

08-20-07, 05:23 PM

Woohoo! Thanks to all! I have a PRO710HD that bit the dust two days ago after a month of the blue flicker, which finally escalated to the blank white screen/shutdown.

There's no Elite service center near by. Luckily, I hit google with "PRO710HD problem" and here was the answer. I'm a EE, we've got a design shop decked out with Pace production stations, and I made short work of the power supply board repair.

I don't believe I've ever seen such a terrible job of production soldering in my life. The "connector corner" was atrocious. The board had the same connector and IC pins cold-jointed as everyone else in the thread. Not only were a good half of the joints bad, (plus the infamous heat sink screw), the board was covered in solder balls for an encore.

Given what I paid for the set in 2000, I'm amazed the PCB assembly quality is so poor.

However, the set has a great picture (now that it's working again). As soon as the manuals arrive, I'm going to clean the mirrors and lenses, it's pretty dusty in there.

You realize you got incredibly lucky. NOBODY SHOULD RUN THESE UNITS FOR A MONTH AFTER THE BLUE FLASH HAS APPEARED.

You saw how bad the factory soldering job was. It could just as easily have been some other bad joint in there finally giving way, that could have domino effected into a much more serious problem. You're an ee. You concur?

You will see a marvelous difference between before and after on optics cleaning, esp. if you go all the way and do the deeper optics cleaning as well. The difference between a crystal clear optical path and a cloudy one is absolutely staggering.

Just be very careful not to scratch any of the optics while you're in there, by using anything even slightly resembling a dry technique, or any other technique not safe for plastic lenses or front surface mirrors. Scratches are permanent.

Don't know why you're waiting on the manuals for the optics cleaning, BTW. No manual I've ever seen on these covers optics cleaning, regular or deeper.

Mr Bob

ucrengineer

08-20-07, 09:46 PM

Thank the heavens for this thread. I have a Pioneer 610 that has been experiencing the blue flash / shutdown problem for some time. More so the shutdown than blue flash really though. It is extremely irritating. I was about to put my axe through the front screen when I decided to google it quickly.

I'm going to be doing some sodering in a few minutes, but I have another problem that I haven't seen addressed on here with my 610. The picture is cut off around the edges, no matter what mode it is set to. The problem isn't as bad in HD mode, and is non-existent while using other inputs ( i.e. DVD ), but with standard channels its quite horrible. Imagine the set is simply zoomed into the middle of the screen. I haven't seen the head of an actor in months.

I'm fairly comfortable with circuitry and the like, but I don't know much about televisions. I doubt it is an internal problem but doesn't hurt to ask. Thanks in advance for any responses.

Mr Bob

08-21-07, 06:17 AM

3Dengineer

08-22-07, 03:59 PM

There's no way to be able to trust your board to the same level as you trust the rest of the boards in there - to last indefiinitely - without a thorough resoldering of the entire board, redoing everything but the heat sinks and test points, which dont connect to anything.

I just talked with a potential repair customer, someone who is also a consumer advocate. She has a 10 year old Sony with problems, and the way she handled it was to find out the names of the higher ups at Sony and write them a letter. When higher ups get a letter, they fear that the next letter will go to the press.

This totally bypasses the custumer relations dept's.

She wrote to the CEO.

They sent her 3 new guns for her set, for free.

It's a shame that the front line support people at Pioneer are not more cooperative. In my email to their support, I made sure to mention that I was emailing much higher up the chain, and did so. Which is why I received 2 calls - 1 from a support manager and 1 from a senior VP.

Bob, do you suggest that I have a new board sent out to me while I have Pioneer support's attention? I simply do not have the ability to resolder the whole board (cleanly) as I have not done EE work in about 15 years. I can touch stuff up, but the whole board is beyond my capability.

I suppose you recommend the board be completely re-worked but not sure how this can be accomplished. No way to ensure the local pioneer authorized support is capable of doing this correctly. As you mention, if this is not done right, you can actually make it worse.

Thank you.

3D

(Flash/shutoff issue has not shown up since I resoldered 12V and 1st GND - 7 days ago)

Mr Bob

08-22-07, 09:42 PM

It's a shame that the front line support people at Pioneer are not more cooperative. In my email to their support, I made sure to mention that I was emailing much higher up the chain, and did so. Which is why I received 2 calls - 1 from a support manager and 1 from a senior VP.

Bob, do you suggest that I have a new board sent out to me while I have Pioneer support's attention? I simply do not have the ability to resolder the whole board (cleanly) as I have not done EE work in about 15 years. I can touch stuff up, but the whole board is beyond my capability.

I suppose you recommend the board be completely re-worked but not sure how this can be accomplished. No way to ensure the local pioneer authorized support is capable of doing this correctly. As you mention, if this is not done right, you can actually make it worse.

Thank you.

3D

(Flash/shutoff issue has not shown up since I resoldered 12V and 1st GND - 7 days ago)

If you can get a board out of them for nothing, go for it. Or send it to me and I'll get it done right for you, but of course for a price.

Mr Bob

pwdawson

08-23-07, 10:21 AM

Mr Bob

08-23-07, 12:15 PM

I wish I had found this site before I ordered and replaced my power supply.

My original symptom (before the power supply went out) was the blue was way out of convergence, for a few seconds before the supply died. I ordered and replaced the supply, now the unit will power up and I have a picture but the blue is way off. I don't want to leave it on for more than a few seconds fearing it may blow the power supply.

Am I right in assuming that the problem is the convergence board or could it be the blue lamp or blue control board? And if it is the convergence board do you think replacing the ICs as was suggested in another post would fix the problem?

Any help would be greatly appriciated, I have had this unit for 7 years and love the picture and would really hate to have to replace it.

Thanks
Paul

When the conv ICs blow they often short, which takes out fuses on the PS board. So replacing the PS board may have given you a reprieve, and was definitely a good upgrade being that those PS boards have been going out right and left, but your blue conv problem has not been remedied.

Replacing the conv ICs is the next step, and shoulda been done before replacing the PS board, when you knew there was a problem there. Of course there is also a regulator on the PS board that goes cold solder, but that would affect all colors, not just the blue, as the +- voltage rails go to both ICs commonly, and parallel to all 6 conv channels.

Replacing those ICs and redoing your geo/conv is indeed the next step. Use 2 of the STK 392-180s, or 150s if you can't get 180s, in place of the much older and weaker original 110s.

Your set is not far away from being fully serviceable for you again. At that point it is definitely time for you to get your optics cleaned - both regular and deeper - and restore that clean-as-a-whistle/clear as glass light path to your viewing, leaving all its current bleariness behind.

Mr Bob

ctvince

08-23-07, 01:26 PM

Just wanted to say a big thanks again to all the people that have contributed to this thread. I got my IC's in the mail yesterday and proceeded to replace them and at the same time go over the power supply board again just to be safe. I also resoldered G1, G2 and G3 which are the connect points for each of the colors. Turned the unit back on and my blue is back in focus. I've now had just about all the major problems this unit has issues with and have remedied the and then some. I'm feeling somewhat confident that I've got a set that will last for some time now.

Bob, you're right about the lens's. I did the regular optics cleaning last year, but I need to tackle the deep cleaning now. I'm going to give the unit a couple months to make sure something doesn't fail on me right away and then I'll tackle that issue.

Paul, I agree with Mr. Bob. Your next step will be to replace the IC's. I have a question regarding the blue. Is the shift in convergence constant, i.e. if you have a stationary image on the screen does the blue that is shifted flicker at all or is it a solid color just out of convergence. I ask this because my original issue started with a problem with my high voltage cable that links the blue gun to the "distributor" on one of the boards. The cable was bad and there was arcing occuring which caused the blue to constantly lose convergence especially at the outer edge, but it shifted constantly like a flicker.

Good luck!

pwdawson

08-23-07, 02:10 PM

Mr Bob

08-23-07, 03:18 PM

Mr Bob, thanks for the quick response. Yes that is what I was thinking, that something else was taking out the PS board, so I haven't left it on for more than a few seconds. I searched this thread and found a link to Electronix online and have ordered the 2 ICs.

I am pretty eager to get my system back up.

I was shown Electronix.com by a customer who was not happy with my prices on the ICs, on his Samsung. I started ordering from them, and have really not had any bad luck that can be traced there.

But the best ICs are original Sanyos, sold by top grade suppliers, like East Coast, MCM, etc. I learned yesterday at a Mit service repair seminar from one of the fellow attendees, that top grade people like Panasonic will order Sanyos that have been each individually tested, and lesser grade suppliers will go for those where only a smattering are tested per lot, at a much reduced price. And there are knock-offs selling out there that are not original Sanyos.

At the very least I would recommend getting them from suppliers who sell original Sanyo STKs. When I ordered from Union Electronics, I asked them about that, and they specifically use Sanyo ICs. I don't know about Electronix.com, but I know they have the lowest prices I've seen out there.

You have an awesome unit there. I am glad to see that you are defending it and keeping it going, rather than buying into all the new fixed pixel hype. Wait till you see what it can do with a full calibration, after the optics are cleaned!

Mr Bob

fredg7777

08-27-07, 08:28 AM

Mr Bob

08-27-07, 11:13 AM

So glad I did a search on this problem and found this thread!!!

Thanks for all the great information on this problem.

I have never soldered before but I think I am going to attempt this myself.
I took a few web based videos on electronic soldering yesterday.

My question is this:

Do I need to de-solder the bad connections first or just resolder them?

Your help is much appreciated, thanks.

Fred G

No need to desolder cold solder joints. Adding solder re-fluxes them, plus thickens the amount of solder actually on the joint, which you'll notice was very thin to begin with.

That is where these solder joints went bad. On this kind of board there is not enough heat/cold/heat/cold to matter, like there is on convergence IC legs, where the ICs run ungodly hot and need adequate heat dissipation from their heat sinks. Mits HDreadys and older Sonys had this problem with cold solder joints JUST on the IC legs, nowhere else on their conv bds. On the Pioneer PS bds, it's everywhere. And NOT on their convergence bds, or on any other board in the unit, and there are quite a few!

It was all because of solder used by Pioneer, or solder flow machine settings, that was/were not quite ready for prime time.

Mr Bob

rdlm

08-27-07, 06:53 PM

Wow! What a great thread! 34 pages of highly useful info!

My 610 seems to have the same issue -- or a variant of it. The first symptoms started a couple months ago, with a "flash" (unsure if it was blue or not -- wasn't watching), a loud audio pop, and a power-down. Over the next few weeks I had one two two more pops, but never again any flashes. Since then, I haven't even had any pops.

However, the power-down issue continues -- about once a week or so. This pattern doesn't seem exactly like everyone else, but seems to fit the basic pattern. I've never had the "brightness" issue.

However, I do have one other issue that I hope is related? I own the Pioneer DTV cartridge tuner (that slides in the back). About the same time as the other issues, this went dead: selecting DTV on the remote simply doesn't kick over to it, though I can confirm it has power (the fan is spinning). At first, I feared the tuner was causing the flash/pop/powerdown issues (even though it happened on all sources), so I disconnected it. Unfortunately, the TV still powers off every week or so.

Nobody else has mentioned a problem with the tuner, but perhaps I'm one of the few people with it? They were outragously priced (fortunately, I got a deal), and never performed that well. If this is a sign of bigger "rot" in the set, then it may not be worth trying to fix it. But if the soldering issue is likely the cause of the power-off -- even if the DTV tuner needs replacement -- then it is worth tackling the power supply board.

Thoughts?

bweissman

08-27-07, 07:41 PM

I own the Pioneer DTV cartridge tuner (that slides in the back). About the same time as the other issues, this went dead: selecting DTV on the remote simply doesn't kick over to it, though I can confirm it has power (the fan is spinning). At first, I feared the tuner was causing the flash/pop/powerdown issues (even though it happened on all sources), so I disconnected it. Unfortunately, the TV still powers off every week or so.

Nobody else has mentioned a problem with the tuner, but perhaps I'm one of the few people with it? They were outrageously priced (fortunately, I got a deal), and never performed that well. If this is a sign of bigger "rot" in the set, then it may not be worth trying to fix it. But if the soldering issue is likely the cause of the power-off -- even if the DTV tuner needs replacement -- then it is worth tackling the power supply board.I am the one other person on the planet who bought the Pioneer SH-D09 HD OTA BIB tuner. This was a piece of garbage from the get-go and was never supported by Pioneer. (Serial port on the back for future updates? Dream on, sucker.) The stupid thing was continually scanning, turning itself on and off, making noise, and it just sucked as a tuner. Mine lasted maybe a year. It just started not being able to tune channels, one at a time, until it got nothing OTA. (I suspect PSIP formats changed and left it behind.) It's still in the back of my 610, disconnected, occupying space. I now get my HD via cable. Anyone who wants an SH-D09 tuner cheap, with user and service manuals, contact me. :o

Sorry I can't help with your power-off problem. But I have such a bad feeling about Pioneer's awful tuner and total lack of support for same that I had to vent. This experience taught me that outboard boxes (of any type for any purpose) are better in the long run than built-in boxes.

PamW

08-27-07, 08:46 PM

I am the one other person on the planet who bought the Pioneer SH-D09 HD OTA BIB tuner. This was a piece of garbage from the get-go and was never supported by Pioneer. (Serial port on the back for future updates? Dream on, sucker.) The stupid thing was continually scanning, turning itself on and off, making noise, and it just sucked as a tuner. Mine lasted maybe a year. It just started not being able to tune channels, one at a time, until it got nothing OTA. (I suspect PSIP formats changed and left it behind.) It's still in the back of my 610, disconnected, occupying space. I now get my HD via cable. Anyone who wants an SH-D09 tuner cheap, with user and service manuals, contact me. :o

Sorry I can't help with your power-off problem. But I have such a bad feeling about Pioneer's awful tuner and total lack of support for same that I had to vent. This experience taught me that outboard boxes (of any type for any purpose) are better in the long run than built-in boxes.

This makes me really glad I went the cable box route - as a matter of fact, my sales rep pushed me towards the cable box as a solution - mainly because the tuner was $$$. Sorry you have had so many problems.

So far, our fix (a whole new board) has been just right. It has been almost a year with no problems.

pwdawson

08-27-07, 08:57 PM

I was shown Electronix.com by a customer who was not happy with my prices on the ICs, on his Samsung. I started ordering from them, and have really not had any bad luck that can be traced there.

But the best ICs are original Sanyos, sold by top grade suppliers, like East Coast, MCM, etc. I learned yesterday at a Mit service repair seminar from one of the fellow attendees, that top grade people like Panasonic will order Sanyos that have been each individually tested, and lesser grade suppliers will go for those where only a smattering are tested per lot, at a much reduced price. And there are knock-offs selling out there that are not original Sanyos.

At the very least I would recommend getting them from suppliers who sell original Sanyo STKs. When I ordered from Union Electronics, I asked them about that, and they specifically use Sanyo ICs. I don't know about Electronix.com, but I know they have the lowest prices I've seen out there.

You have an awesome unit there. I am glad to see that you are defending it and keeping it going, rather than buying into all the new fixed pixel hype. Wait till you see what it can do with a full calibration, after the optics are cleaned!

Mr Bob

Mr Bob, thanks for the great help! I replaced the ICs and my Pioneer is back in action and looks great if not better than ever. I did have a question I had to readjust the convergence for the blue it was way out in spots. Is this normal going from the 110 to 180 or maybe some other problem. I was able to adjust and have watched it for hours and no problems

fredg7777

08-29-07, 10:18 AM

Thanks Bob!

Finished re-soldering the PS board Monday afternoon. Re-soldered the E3 GRD & 12V connections as well as the IC202 & IC204 connections plus a few misc. connections that looked suspect. Didn't want to push my luck as my soldering skills are nil and my hands aren't that steady anymore.

Re-installed the PS board and have not had the "Power-Off" problem since.

Total out of pocket expense for soldering iron & 60/40 solder $10 at Radio Shack.

Thanks to everyone for their detailed posts on this issue.

Do you have detailed instructions on how to clean the optics?
Are their any caveats to doing this?

Thanks,
Fred G

Mr Bob

08-29-07, 01:33 PM

Mr Bob

08-29-07, 01:41 PM

Mr Bob, thanks for the great help! I replaced the ICs and my Pioneer is back in action and looks great if not better than ever. I did have a question I had to readjust the convergence for the blue it was way out in spots. Is this normal going from the 110 to 180 or maybe some other problem. I was able to adjust and have watched it for hours and no problems

I have actually seen this happen even with the same IC being replaced. It's nature of the beast for the new IC to affect the circuit, from a little to a lot. I once had one that inserted a monster curvature to everything that had to be remedied.

So no, you're OK. If it's holding, you're in clover! I trust you heatsink compounded the suckers in really good, so there's excellent heat-transfer bonding going on in there?

Mr Bob

pwdawson

08-29-07, 02:01 PM

I trust you heatsink compounded the suckers in really good, so there's excellent heat-transfer bonding going on in there?

Mr Bob

Oh absolutely! I was a electronics repair tech in my previous life.

Mr Bob

08-29-07, 02:14 PM

Oh absolutely! I was a electronics repair tech in my previous life.

You ready for a cleaning, calibration and 5 more years of stealth grade videophile viewing?

:cool:

Mr Bob

aerostat56

09-01-07, 05:43 PM

I have had this pop and the set turns off, I removed the PS and resoldered the E3, E4, IC202 and IC204. The set turned on and ran for four days and shut off again. I took it apart and touched up E3 thinking maybe I had missed something. It now runs consistantly for 3.5 hours and shuts off. I have to turn off the power and leave it off for about 10 -15 minutes before it will turn back on. It then only runs a short time before shutting down again.
It sure is hard to watch a football game like this.
Anybody have any good ideas.
Would it help to buy a new PS or could there be something else wrong?

It seems I may have fixed the problem. I got the set on and wiggled E3 and it quit. I did this twice more and took the card back out. I then used a solder sucker and cleaned and resoldered all the pins. When I put it back in wiggling the connector did nothing, so I believe I am another happy fixer.

Thanks everyone for the help

Mr Bob

09-01-07, 10:20 PM

PRO-630HD

09-02-07, 05:22 AM

Mr. Bob, you seem to be a wealth of information so I will ask this question? I own a Pioneer Elite PRO-630HD. I have a ghosting issue. I am in college so I don't have cable, but when I play hddvd's, dvd's, etc. I have a white or clear outline 3/8 of an inch to the right of objects. Normally faces, building, etc. they are always to the right. This is reproduced verbatim when I replay a scene and is more present with some material more than others. It does not come and go. It seems to get really severe when scenes have a lot of smoke in them. Chapter 27 of Batman Begins it is prevalent throughout. To get more specific if I access the menu there is a ghost pattern of the menu that is again 3/8 of an inch to the right for virtually everything in the menu. If I pop in the pluge pattern on my video essentials hddvd I have a ghost pattern of both sides 3/8 of an inch to the right. HDDVD and DVD the patterns are the same. If I access the menu of DVE or a Universal hddvd where the menu overlaps live footage it is very noticeable.

I have switched between different players and tried component and DVI and get the same results. I have tried changing every enhancement circuit and setting possible(color, contrast, black enhance, LTI, etc.) I was using RTM, but switched to PRO mode as the brighter picture decreases the outline slightly. This is noticeable in all the picture modes.

The set is converged properly, with a bit of bleeding on the far edges. Shifting the guns has no effect on the problem, ie shifting the blue gun slightly left. I tried the fine focus on the front panel behind the front particle board, no effect either except for the picture is far sharper and more focused. As well, I occasionally get a red outline to the on the left side of an object normally a face, you guessed it 3/8 of an inch to the right. When I notice this and replay the scene it is always the same.

With the red gun being on the left (red ghosting on the left side of images) and the blue gun being on the right white or clear ghosting on the right side of images) all 3/8 of an inch to the right I wondered if this had something to do with it. Again convergence is spot on and changing the position or focus of the guns has no effect. For convergence purposes the red gun is the tightest, The green a hair bigger and the blue a little bigger than that.

I did compare this to my older Pioneer SDP-5795W 16:9 480i set with the same scenes on dvd and this ghosting issue was not present in the scenes or the ghosting I am seeing with the menu system. This is not artifacting or edge enhancement in the transfers. This is unique to my set. I never have gone in and cleaned off the CRT's. Could dust cause this issue? Could a dirty mirror or dirty CRT's cause the ghosting I am seeing?

Have you seen this in Elite sets before? Any Ideas? Thanks!!!

Mr Bob

09-02-07, 01:52 PM

PRO-630HD

09-02-07, 03:01 PM

Is this to say that the red has ghosting 3/8" to the left, while blue has it 3/8" to the right? But you also say there is ghosting "all 3/8" to the right".

Sorry, not following you -

The ghosting is all 3/8 to the right of the object where the ghosting is occuring. When this pops up the ghosting on the left side of an image (face or building) is red, the ghosting on the right side of the image is white or a clear outline. Then I thought of the layout of the guns as they are red, green, blue from right to left. The red ghosting coming from the left side of an image is pretty rare compared to white or clear ghosting I am seeing on the right side of an image.

Again, thank you for the responce and it is most appreciated.

PRO-630HD

09-02-07, 04:29 PM

Mr Bob

09-02-07, 04:51 PM

Okay removed the screen, the mirror is flawless. I am not touching it. The crt's have a hair bit of dust on them. I was amazed at how clean the setup was. What is good for cleaning the crt's so I do not damage them?

To really see the matting of crud that at least 7 years of use puts on your optics, you need to shine a very strong flashlight FROM THE SIDE, while observing from the front. I have said this many many times on the net, over the years. See my website for why.

(Same for seeing the raised lettering on the focus block - shine your flashlight from the side onto it.)

Same goes for seeing the smokiness on your mirror, which I am sure you have not actually seen yet as well. Clean a corner of the mirror then do this test also, if you don't believe me. On any CRT set as old as yours, I like to lick my finger (No scratches!) and draw a happy face in the lenses to make my point.

The deeper optics have a special viewing regimen to see them also, as well as special cleaning principles that apply to all plastic lenses.

I am available for phone consultation if you want to be assured of doing this right. Or just keep on keeping on, and bear with the murky, bleary performance that I guaranty you are experiencing right now, and keep calling it good. When the optics are cleaned my way, it's the difference between the murky beginning scenes of Finding Nemo, deep underwater, vs. the incredibly clear blacks presented later on in the film, in the open air, out of the water.

Not my set. I'll keep on watching my HD images in pristine, crystalline clarity on all ages of set I own, from the one I bought in 2001 to the one I bought at the first of the year, this year. They and all other sets I calibrate, if left to my own devices, all have crystal clear light paths, to deliver everything in clean as a whistle, transparent clarity, bristling with incredibly bright contrast ratio and palpable punch, just like when brand new.

It's the only way to fly...

Mr Bob

PRO-630HD

09-02-07, 05:10 PM

Trigger445

09-03-07, 12:10 AM

Mr Bob

09-03-07, 10:16 AM

Another question that probably is the cause of the ghosting. In the red crt there is clearly visible a curved metal band. The green and blue crt's do not have this. The band is clearly visible whether the red crt is on or off. It looks like a band that should be on the side that maybe slipped down.

Those metal bands under the red and blue lenses are for white field uniformity. They were put there by the designers of this model year, and are there on all 510/610/710s, and I believe all Pioneer Elite and non-Elite HDreadys. Please double check to see if there is one under the blue lens, they may have changed it on that series.

Without them in place, you will see the whites not being uniform in color all across the screen. Toshibas have them also, tho on the Tosh's they are not removable. On the Pioneers, they can be removed whenever doing the deeper optics cleaning, and put back in afterwards, before reinstalling their lenses back in place.

They will not affect after-images, which is what it sounds like you have. After-images are caused by ringing, which is an echo of the original signal structure of the image. 3/8" is a strong ringing going on in there, that was supposed to have been damped out effectively, and such damping is evidently failing, on your set.

I think you have some capacitor in the chain of events going bad, that is affecting your entire chain at some point where the 3 colors have not been discriminated/separated out yet. It would be likely in the Y - which is structure only, affects all 3 - vs. C, which is the color info only, and separates out at one point, to separate R, G and B images. The problem sounds like it will be before the separation of the color info into separate and different R, G and B images, when color is present. When b/w, all 3 images will be the same. But since your entire image is showing this after image, it can't be after the color discrimination, which changes each image depending on the colors involved, in which case only 1 color would be affected.

As such, if this is affecting all inputs and you are not using the RGB option of the VGA connector for inputs, it can be at least limited in where to look in the circuitry.

A good test would be to put an RGB source into your set thru that VGA input and see if the same thing happens or not.

I suspect a leaky capacitor, and when they go bad in this kind of way, they often leak black brackish stuff onto either the top or bottom of the board that smells like fish, esp. when heated by a soldering iron.

In any case, looks like getting a talented service tech involved would be your next step. This is not a normal - if you can call having thousands of PS boards going bad 5-7 years down the line, on the 510/610/710 series "normal" - halfway predictable problem, which is what this thread has come to be all about. Even if yours was a 510/610/710, this would not be a normal problem.

Yours is a 630, and at that time those PS boards were no longer having problems. The 620s never did have the problems the 610s had, Pioneer had remedied whatever they had screwed up on in the 510/610/710 series by then. The 630s were never plagued by the problems elaborated upon at length in this thread.

Good luck, but this thread really won't be able to help you with the problem you have, as yours is 2 years newer than the series this thread is all about.

Mr Bob

PS - In view of that, let me say that everything I said about optics cleaning above, was said about the 510/610/710 series. Sorry, I neglected to notice that yours is the 630 series, and as such 2 years newer than the 610 series.
Perhaps your optics are not as strongly matted as those in the 610 series would be, and you actually can get by on the cleanness they currently have. I still recommend everything I mentioned, but again, I was thinking you had a 610 when I said them, so temper whatever I said with that.

Sorry!

WEMICHENER

09-06-07, 02:05 PM

Mr Bob

09-06-07, 02:34 PM

Mr. Bob

Hello, old to this thread but new to replying. I own a Pro710 HD and also have suffered through the problems discussed on this thread. I luv my 710 but would like to have a complete cleaning and calibration done on it. What are your rates Bob to have this done? Do you plan on a trip to Colorado in the near future? Right now my TV is shutting down, the green comes on for a sec then reverts to red. Pulled the power board and only one fuse was blown, the 5A 125V. Replaced this fuse and was thinking that the STK where causing the problem. I replaced the STK about 6 months ago and was thinking maybe they went to hell in a hand basket. What causes these to go bad? I intend to see if the STK are bad by looking for the red led on the board but im pretty confident one went bad so I ordered 2 more to replace them out. Is it common that only one fuse blows if the only one STK is bad?

Any help would be appreciated and I still want to know your rates Bob.

Thanks

Each fuse handles one of the 2 voltages, the plus and the minus. Yes, it's common for just one to blow, but not just because one STK is bad. Both could be bad and still just one fuse could blow. Not the usual, of course...

I always recommend replacing both if you replace one, because the one that's still good could go bad very quickly after the old one, and you'd have to start the disassembly process all over again. You know, the old throw-out bearing argument -

I charge travel plus $350 for the repair if it is either the resoldering or the conv repair, plus parts if it is a conv repair.

The cal costs are all over the map, depending on what you want done. The basic cal package is $485 for your primary scanrate, plus $285 for your secondary scanrate; deeper optics cleaning is an extra at $150, and overscan reduction is extra also, at $200/scanrate. Ground travel is $75/hr RT from my place to yours and back. Air travel is on you, plus I need shuttle costs at my end paid for, for going to and coming back from the airport, at $25 each.

If you wish further delineation, I will be glad to send out my costs and services emailout, if you will email me for it at my regular email address, below.

Same goes for anyone wanting the full story. It's too long to put up here.

I am glad that at least Pioneer RPTV owners are taking up the CRT flag, alongside the longstanding, steadfast faith and belief in CRT, of the ceiling pj owners -

Mr Bob

PRO710HD

09-06-07, 02:54 PM

Anyone interested in a Pristine Pioneer Elite PRO710HD let me know (absolutely perfect!)

NW Chicago Burbs

1500.00

Mr Bob

09-07-07, 12:32 PM

Mr. Bob

Do you plan on a trip to Colorado in the near future?

Thanks

I don't have anything scheduled for Colorado right now, but used to live there and would love to come visit.

I will fly anywhere to get this work done, the work of keeping select brands of CRT RPTVs up and running, and all brands cleaned and calibrated.

Just send me a plane ticket. I contribute the time in the air, during which of course I cannot be working. You supply the lodging - I am easy to please, a couch or guest room is fine - plus a rental car if needed, plus the ground travel fees mentioned above. If you pick me up at the airport and do the driving, there may be no need of a rental car.

Gathering fellow CRT afficianados who don't want a complete cal but need their optics cleaned is a great way to flesh out a calibration tour, so that the travel costs get divvied up real good, and become insignificant with enough participants.

Mr Bob

drjensen1

09-07-07, 05:02 PM

I'm in need of some help. I found this thread in January 2007 when my Pro 610HD started to lose picture cohesion, pop, and shut itself off. I consulted the Pioneer website and had an authorized repair company come out and fix my set. Advanced Electronics Service in San Diego. To my delight, there was no charge for the repair even though the set was obviously out of warranty. I talked to the tech and he said the power supply board was replaced and the set was cleaned.

A few months after the repair, the picture cohesion problem returned. I dealt with it hoping it wouldn't get worse. Unfortunately, it did. Recently, the half of the picture disappears (from the bottom) , the set pops, shuts off, and will not turn back on.

I called the repair shop and Pioneer. Each call was met with, "I'm really sorry, but you'll have to pay for the repair this time."

I don't want to deal with Pioneer or he repair shop ever again. Can someone recommend the fastest, least expensive way to remedy the problem?

sjordan93436

09-08-07, 12:54 AM

Mr Bob

09-08-07, 02:35 PM

I had Mr. Bob fix my 610. You might be able to remove the "bad" board and have him fix it or schedule a trip. He has done a few of these ;) --- unless you have someone experienced, it can be bad. It is a VERY common problem with 510 610 and 710

Mr. Bob is highly recommended. There must be others. If the prospective repair man does not know _instantly_ what the problem is and how to fix it, walk on.

I just fixed another 610 last night, in San Jose. Then calibrated the 480i scanrate, restoring that sizzling DVD picture they had all but forgotten about. When I arrived, the optical focus was out on 2 of the 3 lenses - way out on the blue, as usual, the Cantilever Technique took care of all that - the convergence has drifted substantially, and the grayscale had blue whites and horrid green in all the blacks, even making peoples' hair have green tinges in the dark areas.

When I left, they were still watching the final Star Wars episode, with all its juicy colors nicely balanced again and very pure blacks, and loving it.

Unfortunately his deeper optics are still dirty, as he didn't want to spring an additional $150 for my doing that for him, even tho I was already inside - meaning that the blacks in the starfield scenes in Ep. III were still not as dynamic as they are supposed to be. But since the regular optics cleaning is covered in the basic cal package, which he did spring for, the blacks were improved immeasurably, even tho not all the way.

They - his family - were oohing and aahing all over the place anyway -

Then I told him to sit about 7' away - the couch was about 12' away - and after doing so he realized he could sit that close and still have a crisp and completely coherent picture, even up that close. Delivering a picture almost twice the size of what he has always been used to. Blew him away. He went up to the screen and put his eyes 2' away and commented on how the picture was still completely tight, even that close.

No HD yet, as his Pioneer ATSC OTA tuner - which people paid big bucks for in the day, he got his for ONLY $500 - has given up the ghost. He was hoping that my resoldering the PS board would fix that, but nada.

He will be having me back to calibrate the HD when he gets a working outboard STB. I told him that the Samsung is very affordable at $100-150, as far as OTA goes, and cable is the next least expensive way to go, as you don't have to buy any equipment.

An incoming true HD image is absolutely a must for sizing and placement of your HD image onto your screen, esp. if you plan on overscan reduction. The rest of the work can be done with my Accupel HDG 3000 HD pattern generator, which supplies all the patterns needed for HD calibrations. Final setting of the brightness is also done on a sampling of all the available incoming actual HD images themselves, rather than test patterns in my calibrations, even tho the Accupel gets it close, and would be enough for most calibrators.

I am on a one man crusade to save all the Pioneer HDreadys I possibly can, and to make their emminently optimizable images into stealth grade viewing for every one of their owners, and ready for the next 5 years of videophile use.

Pass the word.

:cool:

Mr Bob

bradesp

09-08-07, 03:25 PM

Mr Bob

09-08-07, 04:51 PM

If there are other Pioneer Pro x10HD owners out there (mine is a Pro 710HD ) in the RTP, NC region ( Raleigh, Durham or Chapel Hill ) who would like to split travel costs for Bob to come tune up our TV's please let me know cuz I'd like to share the travel costs with 2-3 others if possible.

bradesp
raleigh, nc

Keep in mind that optics cleanings are relatively inexpensive and can flesh out a cal tour nicely, making the travel $ needed from each participant to become quite reasonable, quite quickly. Anyone owning a CRT triple-gun RPTV that's over 3 years old and has never had this done, is in DIRE need of it as we speak. The older the set is, the more it will be needed and the more pronounced the amazing differences in the picture, once performed.

Mr Bob

cpizzull

09-12-07, 10:47 PM

rdlm

09-12-07, 11:13 PM

I'm the guy in SJ that Mr Bob did the power supply and calibration work on last Friday. All of his comments are true, including me wanting to limit the spend. (If you get multiple scan rates and display modes done, it can add up fast!)

First, the power-off problem appears to be gone. It hasn't even been a week yet, so time will tell. But the problem was getting worse before the repair, and no sign of problems since the repair. At this point, I'm putting my money on it being fixed. Considering the alternative of scrapping and replacing the machine, I'm a happy camper.

Second, I do have to comment on the remarkable improvement in the picture quality. Watching a set over 7 years is kinda like watching your kids grow up -- you don't really notice the changes because they happen slowly over time, and you have to think back to really appreciate it. The picture was beautiful when we first got the set (after some very basic calibration work), but it is even better now. And wow -- is it better than it was a week ago! I hadn't realized how time had taken its toll!

Now, to find the time to figure out what I want as my replacement HD source, given that the Pioneer OTA cartridge is definitely dead -- even with the re-soldered power supply board.

kidd0h

09-13-07, 07:09 PM

Keep in mind that optics cleanings are relatively inexpensive and can flesh out a cal tour nicely, making the travel $ needed from each participant to become quite reasonable, quite quickly. Anyone owning a CRT triple-gun RPTV that's over 3 years old and has never had this done, is in DIRE need of it as we speak. The older the set is, the more it will be needed and the more pronounced the amazing differences in the picture, once performed.

Mr Bob

Hey Mr Bob,

New to the forum obviously and I am happy I stumbled onto it. I have been having an intermittent issue with my Pioneer Elite PRO510HD. It looks like it is similar to some issues in this thread.

Every once in a while the TV will make a loud popping sound and the screen will go yellow with horizontal lines of reddish/blue/orange ( hard to tell ) and it will stay like that no matter what I do.

It will either do that above or it will pop and turn off completely with nothing but the red power button lit. During this I cannot turn the TV back on as it doesnt respond to anything.

I am at a total loss as to what to do here and I hope you or another forum member has some incite on the problem. I will be spending the next few hours reading through the thread more thoroughly to see if i missed something.

thanks in advance and sorry for the long post!

WEMICHENER

09-13-07, 07:24 PM

Mr. Bob,

I fixed the TV and now it works, convergence was waaaayyy off and it seems that the right hand of the screen(when looking at it) flares out. Is this adjustable? (geometry) I noticed it when I went into the Pro710 elite convergence multi adjustment and the grid extendes off the screen. Also, when watching the TV after I installed the new 110 chips, I noticed that the red flickers(curves and stuff) a bit. Is this because their new? Any help would be cool. Also, Im trying to find someone else in Colorado that need there TV calibrated and cleaned to make the cost on me easier. Please send me your price list of all your charges to WEMICHENER@NETSCAPE.NET so I can start saving for the ultimate day. Thanks Bob

Mr Bob

09-13-07, 08:29 PM

Hey Mr Bob,

New to the forum obviously and I am happy I stumbled onto it. I have been having an intermittent issue with my Pioneer Elite PRO510HD. It looks like it is similar to some issues in this thread.

Every once in a while the TV will make a loud popping sound and the screen will go yellow with horizontal lines of reddish/blue/orange ( hard to tell ) and it will stay like that no matter what I do.

It will either do that above or it will pop and turn off completely with nothing but the red power button lit. During this I cannot turn the TV back on as it doesnt respond to anything.

I am at a total loss as to what to do here and I hope you or another forum member has some incite on the problem. I will be spending the next few hours reading through the thread more thoroughly to see if i missed something.

thanks in advance and sorry for the long post!

You can never predict exactly what symptoms are gonna happen when a number of solder joints on the PS board are hinky. There are literally hundreds of them, any number of which could be unreliable as we speak. And any number of which could turn bad in the next weeks or months even if they are not bad now.

If you are experiencing intermittent erratic behavior from your set - sounds like you are - chances are your PS board has gone critical, and you should shut your set down until repaired, lest it get worse and possibly cause you much more expensive damage to your set than the problems it is experiencing now. We have seen both - some run their sets for a long time, get the PS board resoldered and everything works fine after that - and we have seen some horror stories, from those who let it go on just a little too long. More of the former than the latter - but do you want to take that chance? (Universal message to all PRO 510/610/710 owners!!! Don't play Russian Roulette with your multi-thousand dollar unit!)

If you are good with soldering, you can prolly do it yourself. If not, have someone COMPETENT on it. It's very easy to skimp on the number of joints resoldered, and it's also very easy to insert solder bridges in there, which were not there before, on the smaller joints, and will shut your set down instantly.

That should save you some reading -

;)

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

09-13-07, 08:37 PM

Mr. Bob,

I fixed the TV and now it works, convergence was waaaayyy off and it seems that the right hand of the screen(when looking at it) flares out. Is this adjustable? (geometry)

Yes. Old ICs vs. new are not always an exact match. I had one which spread out the entire upper half. But was OK, because it was able to be completely realigned.

I noticed it when I went into the Pro710 elite convergence multi adjustment and the grid extendes off the screen. Also, when watching the TV after I installed the new 110 chips, I noticed that the red flickers(curves and stuff) a bit. Is this because their new?

Shouldn't flicker. You might have bought an inferior set of ICs. We always replace with STK 392-180s, or 150s if the 180s are not available. Never 110s anymore, the others are factory upgrades and are way stronger and more stable than the 110s.

However, if it's just the test pattern/internal grid that's flickering and the actual video material is not, don't worry about it. That happens often and is unimportant, as the video material is all we need to look right.

Any help would be cool. Also, Im trying to find someone else in Colorado that need there TV calibrated and cleaned to make the cost on me easier. Please send me your price list of all your charges to WEMICHENER@NETSCAPE.NET so I can start saving for the ultimate day. Thanks Bob

Will do.

Mr Bob

PS - on its way already!

;)

kidd0h

09-13-07, 08:38 PM

You can never predict exactly what symptoms are gonna happen when a number of solder joints on the PS board are hinky. There are literally hundreds of them, any number of which could be unreliable as we speak. And any number of which could turn bad in the next weeks or months even if they are not bad now.

If you are experiencing intermittent erratic behavior from your set - sounds like you are - chances are your PS board has gone critical, and you should shut your set down until repaired, lest it get worse and possibly cause you much more expensive damage to your set than the problems it is experiencing now. We have seen both - some run their sets for a long time, get the PS board resoldered and everything works fine after that - and we have seen some horror stories, from those who let it go on just a little too long. More of the former than the latter - but do you want to take that chance? (Universal message to all PRO 510/610/710 owners!!! Don't play Russian Roulette with your multi-thousand dollar unit!)

If you are good with soldering, you can prolly do it yourself. If not, have someone COMPETENT on it. It's very easy to skimp on the number of joints resoldered, and it's also very easy to insert solder bridges in there, which were not there before, on the smaller joints, and will shut your set down instantly.

That should save you some reading -

;)

Mr Bob

Thanks Bob,
I appreciate the timely response. I do have to comment further to say that the symptoms have become more steady in what appears. the yellow screen with a few red horizontal lines is what we see. it will go days without happening and other times it will happen a few times a day.

Back to the issue at hand (or your diagnosis). If the ps board is the culprit, we are looking at a repair rather than a replacement? any reason for that other than the obvious 'price'. Also if it turns out not to be the ps board, i am correct to assume that the solder work wont effect anything negatively

I am not a soldering man, but i happen to know one who is, i guess i need to get my hands on a manual to point out the ps board and what should be soldered... any chance you could further help me in locating the above mentioned?

again, I really appreciate the response and if this is the fix, i will be in debt to you for a long time ( about how long this issue has been plaguing us )

Mr Bob

09-13-07, 08:55 PM

Thanks Bob,
I appreciate the timely response. I do have to comment further to say that the symptoms have become more steady in what appears. the yellow screen with a few red horizontal lines is what we see. it will go days without happening and other times it will happen a few times a day.

Back to the issue at hand (or your diagnosis). If the ps board is the culprit, we are looking at a repair rather than a replacement? any reason for that other than the obvious 'price'. Also if it turns out not to be the ps board, i am correct to assume that the solder work wont effect anything negatively

I am not a soldering man, but i happen to know one who is, i guess i need to get my hands on a manual to point out the ps board and what should be soldered... any chance you could further help me in locating the above mentioned?

again, I really appreciate the response and if this is the fix, i will be in debt to you for a long time ( about how long this issue has been plaguing us )

The PS board puts out critical voltage regulation. If a new board is put in, it will most likely be putting out a slightly different set of regulated voltages. This could affect anything that is dialed in very carefully, like the convergence.

I would not order a new board, would have the old one resoldered, making it good as new again. No way for a correct soldering job to affect the set negatively.

If you remove the lower back from the set - NEVER the slanted mirror section, stay AWAY from that - you will see 2 boards that are vertically mounted to the back section, facing you.

The PS board is the one where the power cord goes. It's on your right as you're looking into the set from the back. The other vertical one, on the left side, is the convervence board.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

09-14-07, 11:11 AM

First, thank you everyone for the wealth of info in this thread, especially Mr. Bob for putting up with us. :D

Okay, here's the situation. Pro610HD, 7 years old but used maybe like a 3-4 year old set. Never had problems. Turn on the set the other morning, and 2 minutes later, it shuts off. Unplug for 4 hours, try again, green light comes on for split second and it shuts right off. So, find this thread, and I'm thinking, cool, I can solder this thing and be back in business, right? Wrongo.
.
Open her up and the damn D321 Deflective Assy is also lit. Dammit. So, reading thru here, it appears I have no choice but to replace this thing for $350 from Pioneer. So.......

1. Is there anything else I can try or test before I buy?

No. Just do it. You can always return it if that doesn't cure the problem. I just did it, and it cured it just fine, immediately.

Unfortunately they are having color streaking problems that were never there before, so I had to order a replacement board and am taking it back today, to replace the original replacement board. But they were very good about it - they overnighted this one to me, vowing to refund my costs on the shipping, so that I don't come out of pocket any, on this second replacement board.

2. Is this straight fwd to replace? What do I REALLY need to know so as not
to screw this up further?

Be careful.

3. Any other comments? hints? thoughts?

I am available for phone consultation if you want step by step guidance, it can get daunting in there -

As a side note, is the fuse FU101 (?) on the Power Assy supposed to be solid-white looking (see pic).

Yes. Need a meter to test it, can't do it visually.

Also, is this something I can bitch to Pioneer about? ie..is a bad solder job causing other parts to fail prematurely??

Could be. I would never continue to run one of these babies once the intermittency of the anomalies has shown its ugly head. Who knows what kind of uncertainties in there might get tripped up, and manifest themselves in further problems?

As far as bitching to Pioneer, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Some here on this thread have actually gotten reimbursement from Pioneer on this issue. Pioneer CS obviously doesn't want to accept responsibility carte blanche - think of the potential legal ramifications - but have taken care of people on this issue, on a spot basis, sometimes to the tune of $200, sometimes for a free replacement PS board. Have not heard of any freebies re. the defl. bd, unfortunately.

And, Mr. Bob.....any St. Louis tours coming up??

Once again, thx everyone! (but not you Pioneer!) heee
Chet

Send me a ticket and I will come. Was just there a few months ago, as the tail end of my Atlanta tour.

Mr Bob

cpizzull

09-14-07, 12:10 PM

Thanks a million! I will let you know how it goes. I will also keep in mind the phone consultation and possible cleaning visit.
Chet

Mr Bob

09-14-07, 01:28 PM

Thanks a million! I will let you know how it goes. I will also keep in mind the phone consultation and possible cleaning visit.
Chet

I'll be ready when you are.

;)

Mr Bob

cpizzull

09-19-07, 10:58 PM

Trigger445

09-19-07, 11:55 PM

Deflective Service Assy board replaced and I have a picture again. Quick question though.............my picture did not seem very good, especially at first. I did the convergence and modified some color and tint settings but I don't think it looks as good as before. Obviously a cleaning would help but is this normal when changing this board? I'm fairly confident I did not bump anything, like lenses. Comments?

Thx !
Chet

When you replace the DSA, you have to adjust the following in the service menu, according to the service manual, unless you removed and replaced the EEPROMs:
Brightness
Focus (VR1 Focus VR)
Screen Size
Convergence
White Balance

cpizzull

09-20-07, 09:53 AM

When you replace the DSA, you have to adjust the following in the service menu, according to the service manual, unless you removed and replaced the EEPROMs:
Brightness
Focus (VR1 Focus VR)
Screen Size
Convergence
White Balance

Well, I went thru the SETUP Menu and did do the Convergence, which greatly needed it, as well as the settings that come with the 610HD like Color, Contrast, Black Level, Sharp, etc. (Nothing called Brightness, Focus, White Balance, so I assume that's from another model).
.
Still seems like it could use some changes somewhere.
.
When I had the lower front access panel off, I noticed the small square box on the left, with adjusting knobs. Do I need to mess with that at all? I was wondering that maybe when I took that off, to easily put the wire back on during replacement, that perhaps I moved one of them?? Just a guess.
.
Thx for the reply!
Chet

Mr Bob

09-20-07, 01:38 PM

Well, I went thru the SETUP Menu and did do the Convergence, which greatly needed it, as well as the settings that come with the 610HD like Color, Contrast, Black Level, Sharp, etc. (Nothing called Brightness, Focus, White Balance, so I assume that's from another model).
.
Still seems like it could use some changes somewhere.
.
When I had the lower front access panel off, I noticed the small square box on the left, with adjusting knobs. Do I need to mess with that at all? I was wondering that maybe when I took that off, to easily put the wire back on during replacement, that perhaps I moved one of them?? Just a guess.
.
Thx for the reply!
Chet

You should never even BREATHE on the focus block. It does not need to be touched in any way shape or form for the replacement job, which optimally happens from the rear, not the front.

I have never replaced the defl bd without a complete calibration following it. So can't tellya. But if you did change any of the trimpot settings, yes that could have changed either focus or grayscale or both, on all colors.

Your set could obviously use a complete calibration, now more than ever. It was prolly not real close to optimum before the board got replaced, and you coulda used one then also. I specialize in such things, in case you want to really trick her out, I create stealth grade viewing for videophiles all over the country -

BTW, the things Trigger refered to were in sm. The ones you are referring to are in User.

Mr Bob

cpizzull

09-20-07, 03:19 PM

Thanks Bob!

I'll check out those adjustments with the sm. I'm definitely keeping you in mind, and will try to get other STL folks involved.

As far as replacing from front.......it seemed much easier to do half the detaching and replacement from the front, especially our little black box. From the position where mine was (top left if looking from front access), it seems like it would've been impossible to reach my whole arm in there from the back. Oh well, maybe mine was placed differently than others, ha.

If anyone needs clear pics on this Deflective SA job, I can show you.
Chet

PS. Oh, almost forgot....called Pioneer about the power assy board and my possible ticking time bomb. She assured me it wouldn't affect any other components and when I talked about not wanting a hassle with replacement when it goes out, with Pioneer, she indicated 'there's no expiration on the power board replacement'. Not sure what that means but I took it all to mean they are fully aware of this bad job and may actually replace it should the time come. Hope that helps someone out there.

jfwilson

09-20-07, 05:27 PM

Mr Bob

09-21-07, 03:09 AM

I have an SD532HD5 with ... You guessed it, the same problem. Had the blue flash, thought it was power 'brown outs' so I got a better surge/battery backup. Finally one last time and got the 'click of death'. Turn the TV on, green light for 2 seconds then red. Open up the back and I've got the two red lights "of death". I've taken the PS board out and resoldered just about every connection to no avail. You know, its like a bad Christmas present. I have the anticipation while I'm soldering everything and I'm thinking "Man, this is going to be fixed for almost no $$" then I plug it in and NOTHING!

Anyway, is it definitely the 'deflector board' if both lights are on and the resoldering does nothing? I'm ready to order it, just don't know if I'm overlooking something. I had my pot of coffee while reading all these posts but maybe I missed something?

Thanks for all your help,

If there is a red LED lit up on the defl bd, you have to start the process with replacing it. Period. I have never seen that NOT cure the problem, tho there are no guarantees till the fat lady sings.

The PS board will always be lit up whenever one of the other boards is lit up, and may not be involved in the problems that are happening on the other boards.

We techs always go for the most likely suspect first. There is no more likely suspect when the red LED on the defl bd is lit up, other than a defective defl bd.

If you do replace the defl bd, be sure to heed Trigger445's advice above - find out from Pioneer where the eeproms are and transfer them to the new board before sending the defective one back to get your core charge refunded.

Mr Bob

yazzer

09-24-07, 01:34 AM

Mr Bob

09-24-07, 04:24 AM

Another faulty Pioneer 510, another successful DIY solder fix to the power supply board. My set has been running great for a couple days.

I also cleaned the mirror and top lenses (there was a lot of dust). Picture looks better, even my wife said so. I still think the HDTV doesn't show good detail in the blacks, and is not very sharp, so I'm going to hook up with Mr. Bob for a phone consult to get at the inner lenses.

NOTE: I thought my brightness with still wavering a bit, and that's when I remembered to check to DPO setting in the menu, and sure enough it was ON. I turned it off, and now the TV doesn't try to auto set the brightness. Does anyone else run with this setting on?

I believe DPO is what RCAs used to call the Lumisponder, which uses a photoelectric eye to sense the room lighting and adjust to it, whatever it is. I believe the Mits call it IRIS.

I always turn it off if I find that it is on, personally.

I'm looking forward to guiding you thru the last part of your optics cleaning procedure, so you can have FULL benefit of your optical path, that crystal clear part.

Mr Bob

tom5178

09-24-07, 07:56 PM

Well, count me in as another one with the bad power supply board. I can't believe I found this thread. I was ready to give up and get a new set.
I have not been brave enough to try a solder job myself but I called Pioneer today.

I was on hold for nearly 45 minutes even though the recording said my wait time would be 10 minutes. I spoke to a CSR at the warranty dept who was very short and rude despite me remaining pleasant.

I explained that I was experiencing a problem that has been discussed on both Pioneer's website as well as this forum. SHe started by saying that their website is very specific and that if my model was not listed, I would not be covered. My model is not listed but it describes a problem with the power supply on certain plasmas. The problem is as described here for the past 3 years! bright flash then loud pop and then turn off. only way to turn back on is by the main power switch. etc etc etc on this thread!

Ultimately, she took my name and address and model and serial # and asked if I ever had it repaired? Don;t know why she would ask that. SHe gave me a case # and said someone would call me in 3-5 business days.

I asked her if this meant that Pioneer was going to cover this and she replied incredibly rudely by saying "Sir. this means that someone will call you in 3-5 business days" I could not believe it. I got her name thanked her (while gritting me teeth) and told her to have a nice evening.

A question for the board here. Has anyone successfully had Pioneer fix this without any cost after the warranty?

I have spent numerous hours reading this thread going all the way back there was talk of a class action, but was that ever started?

Thanks in advance for any replies!

Mr Bob... thank you for all of your insight to this board. You certainly seem to know your stuff and then some!!

Tom

Johnla

09-25-07, 12:42 AM

Well, count me in as another one with the bad power supply board. I can't believe I found this thread. I was ready to give up and get a new set.
I have not been brave enough to try a solder job myself but I called Pioneer today.

I was on hold for nearly 45 minutes even though the recording said my wait time would be 10 minutes. I spoke to a CSR at the warranty dept who was very short and rude despite me remaining pleasant.

I explained that I was experiencing a problem that has been discussed on both Pioneer's website as well as this forum. SHe started by saying that their website is very specific and that if my model was not listed, I would not be covered. My model is not listed but it describes a problem with the power supply on certain plasmas. The problem is as described here for the past 3 years! bright flash then loud pop and then turn off. only way to turn back on is by the main power switch. etc etc etc on this thread!

Well first of all... This is not the same problem as those plasma power supplies are, and they are not related, so it is also not covered by Pioneer like the plasma power supply problem is.

Pioneer, may or may not make you some kind of offer to help fix your problem. For some people they have, and for others they have not. Usually it seems they offer to cover parts but not always the labor also for the repair. When they call you back, be nice to them about it. Because if you argue with them over the phone about it, you probably will hurt your chances of them helping you out.

Dead 510

09-25-07, 01:43 AM

pwdawson

09-25-07, 10:37 AM

Mr Bob

09-25-07, 11:08 AM

I have a 2000 Pro-510HD and have had no real problems, other than the occasional load pop (which I've been told is due expansion/contraction) and a buzz in the audio when high contrast characters are on screen (is there a fix for this?). Yesterday I started noticing a slight red fringing around clouds in nature images. Later the unit made a wierd pop and shut off. I was not looking at the screen when it happened. I believe I had to power cycle (full off, not standby) the unit to get it to start again. The unit worked fine until I shut it off a few hours later.

Today I get home from work and my daughter tells me the TV is dead. Sure enough, turning it on results in a slight click, a delay and then another click. I opened the back and saw a red led on the power supply board. I inspected the fuses and capacitors, etc looking for a failed component. Every thing looks fine.

A bit of googling turned up this page, so now the power supply board is out. Close inspection doesn't show anything. I'm an electrical engineer by trade and don't see anything wrong with the board or any of the solder joints. I've got nothing to lose though, so I'll try touching up all the solder joints tomorrow and report back on what happens.

Can I power up the board with all the low voltage connectors disconnected? I've got a DVM, scope, etc and could easily check all the labeled voltages.

Thanks in advance!

This is the classic set of symptoms of the PS cold-solder problems. Resolder the ENTIRE board, all except for the heat sinks and test points, which are not part of any connections of the circuitry during running ops.

NO, you CANNOT run this board outside the unit or disco'd, in any way shape or form. Nobody has done any tests on how - on what loads you need to have for which power supplies, what switching needs to happen in all those plug-in scenarios -

Mit has done such tests on their power supply bds and will eagerly reveal exactly how to HU a PS board on their sets outside the unit, whenever one is experiencing a PS problem. But not Pio.

For testing, you absolutely HAVE TO reinstall the bd and hook it up COMPLETELY before turning it on again. Push ALL plugs on the board back into place, and hopefully you have not disturbed any of the bundling. If not, everything should fit back together very directly and unambiguously.

I recommend putting at least 2 of the screws back in as well before testing, to be sure you have the bd centered adequately on the metal frame. You certainly don't want a short to happen, because it's not completely in place correctly, on that metal frame.

4 screws would be even better.

If it works properly then, you can shut it down again and put the rest of the screws back in, and button it up. If you have created no solder bridges at those really tiny conns, it should work properly from then on.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

09-25-07, 12:21 PM

I recently had a problem with the unit that turned out to be the ICs on the convergence board. Now unit wont powerup and I have a red led on the power supply and also on the board next to it with a PN of AWV-1701-A (Looks like the High Voltage board).

Problem is the pioneer website doesn't list this part. Does anyone have a different part no. or another source for this board?

Thanks in advance

Whenever both LEDs are lit up, the one on the PS board is just indicating that there's a problem elsewhere.

You'll need to replace the deflection board first, and go from there. Try PTS if Pioneer doesn't have the board. PTS rebuilds lots of boards.

Mr Bob

Dead 510

09-26-07, 02:30 AM

This is the classic set of symptoms of the PS cold-solder problems.
Mr Bob

Woohoo! I need to change my user name to "Alive 510". Overall the solder joints looked a little thin but adequate. I've been involved in the manufacture of boards in the telecom and networking world for over 20 years, and although I wasn't impressed with the quality of this board, it seemed adequate. Anyway, I started soldering everything working from the connectors at the top of the board and then around down to the AC connectors and then back up the other side. When I was about 95% done I got to Q101. This is the transistor with the huge heat sink, that has one copper screw soldered to the board. The center terminal had an obviously bad solder joint. I fixed that up, finished off everything else, inspected for solder bridges and random debris and headed back to the tv.

Following Mr. Bob's suggestion I put in a few screws (dropped one into the internals and had a cussing fest while searching for it with a small hand mirror) and powered up the set - it worked like a charm.

This board like many I've seen had a number of components that were "hand adds". The majority of the board was soldered automatically using a method called wave soldering. This is a technique where most all the components are inserted and then the board is put on a carrier. The carrier is pulled through a soldering machine that has a standing wave (or multiple waves) of molten solder. As the board passes through the wave all the components get soldered in a single pass. Typically there are a few components that won't tolerate wave solder, or some other part of the automated assembly process (washing or heat sinks that need to be attached manually, etc). In this case it is easy to identify the hand-adds - there is flux residue on the hand-add parts that was not cleaned. The residue is a reddish-brown crystalline material left around the solder joints on the hand-add parts. Q101 was obviously a hand add, and one of the joints was poorly soldered by a manufacturing tech. This joint was a ticking time-bomb and finally failed after seven years of heating and cooling.

For those who run into this problem in the future, I'd suggest checking all the hand-add solder joints before looking at the rest of the board, you just might find something as obviously bad as what happened on my board. It makes sense too, a human was sitting there hand soldering these parts, probably as fast as they could go while doing piece work, while the rest were done automatically. Which is more likely to be error prone?

In any case, my thanks to Bob and this website.

ctvince

09-26-07, 09:29 AM

How do you get into the service menu on the Pioneers? I can get into the Setup menu, but not the service menu.

thanks

tom5178

09-26-07, 08:39 PM

Mr Bob

09-27-07, 12:35 AM

Woohoo! I need to change my user name to "Alive 510". Overall the solder joints looked a little thin but adequate. I've been involved in the manufacture of boards in the telecom and networking world for over 20 years, and although I wasn't impressed with the quality of this board, it seemed adequate. Anyway, I started soldering everything working from the connectors at the top of the board and then around down to the AC connectors and then back up the other side. When I was about 95% done I got to Q101. This is the transistor with the huge heat sink, that has one copper screw soldered to the board. The center terminal had an obviously bad solder joint. I fixed that up, finished off everything else, inspected for solder bridges and random debris and headed back to the tv.

Following Mr. Bob's suggestion I put in a few screws (dropped one into the internals and had a cussing fest while searching for it with a small hand mirror) and powered up the set - it worked like a charm.

This board like many I've seen had a number of components that were "hand adds". The majority of the board was soldered automatically using a method called wave soldering. This is a technique where most all the components are inserted and then the board is put on a carrier. The carrier is pulled through a soldering machine that has a standing wave (or multiple waves) of molten solder. As the board passes through the wave all the components get soldered in a single pass. Typically there are a few components that won't tolerate wave solder, or some other part of the automated assembly process (washing or heat sinks that need to be attached manually, etc). In this case it is easy to identify the hand-adds - there is flux residue on the hand-add parts that was not cleaned. The residue is a reddish-brown crystalline material left around the solder joints on the hand-add parts. Q101 was obviously a hand add, and one of the joints was poorly soldered by a manufacturing tech. This joint was a ticking time-bomb and finally failed after seven years of heating and cooling.

For those who run into this problem in the future, I'd suggest checking all the hand-add solder joints before looking at the rest of the board, you just might find something as obviously bad as what happened on my board. It makes sense too, a human was sitting there hand soldering these parts, probably as fast as they could go while doing piece work, while the rest were done automatically. Which is more likely to be error prone?

In any case, my thanks to Bob and this website.

I have never seen one of those go bad.

The middle leg is the one that goes to the back of the component, which of course bonds to the heatsink with the compound goo.

As such, it is a lot harder to heat up with the soldering iron, as it is intimately heat-bonded to the heatsink. You have to hit it harder and longer than the other 2.

Perhaps the guy doing the hands-on didn't allow for that.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

09-27-07, 01:24 AM

How do you get into the service menu on the Pioneers? I can get into the Setup menu, but not the service menu.

thanks

Once you're in, you could do sizeable damage to your picture with just a few keystrokes/button pushes.

Before I reveal its secrets, I would feel more comfortable if you had the service manual to refer to.

I needed one to do any good in there, and desperately. They don't just allow scrolling in there here and there - it's all random access, and you have to know what you want before you want it, and the only way to do that is with the service manual.

If you order one, it will tell you how to get in, and guide you around as well.

Be sure to write down every register value before changing any of them. Some you have to memorize, others memorize themselves automatically. The only exception would be the point locations, but for a newbie even writing those down might be a good idea.

The service manual won't tell you everything you need to know, tho. Only experience can deliver that.

I can, of course...

:)

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

09-27-07, 01:36 AM

Well after getting a case number from Pioneer just 2 days ago. I received a call back from them today. She too was a bit rude but much nicer than my first experience on Mon. I was trying to question her about how much they know about the problem. She was very quiet about the bad solder issues. She indicated that they will agree to pay for the part but not the labor. I figured I did not have much of a leg to stand on since I bought the tv in 2000 and it has no warranty left.

She gave the number of the closest authorized dealer. I tried to get her to just send me the board but she would not. she said that she will fax the authoriztion to the dealer and gave me the number to call.

I called about 10 minutes later and the local dealer was already aware of me. she told me the part was about $500 and that the labor would be about $325. I thought this sounded steep after reading this board but again, I have no technical skills or patience.

I figure that I am getting a $500 discount to repair a $6000 tv (at time of purchase) When the tv is working, it really does have the best picture I have ever seen.

Does anyone think the 325 labor to install the new power board is high?

Thanks for any input.

Tom

I charge travel plus $350 to resolder the board stem to stern, including removing the back of the set, removing the board from its metal chassis, doing the entire board, and reversing the process as to reinstalling the board again.

To just replace the board with a new one I would charge the travel plus $250, as it's really a lot simpler than all that other stuff.

If you hire me, you don't need a new board tho, and there is lots of voltage regulation on that board, which could change critically set stuff downline from it if a new one simply takes its place.

I recommend keeping the one you've got. Resolder it or get it resoldered, and your voltage regulations controlling everything downline from it, will all stay the same.

Or send it to me. For $275 plus you cover the shipping both ways, I will resolder it and send it back to you.

Paying to have it reinstalled is a needless expense, IMHO. Sign up for a phone consultation with me and I'll guide you thru it step by step. For half an hour of consultation time, on this and all other facets of calibration - including optics cleaning and deeper optics cleaning - I only charge $42.50.

Mr Bob

ctvince

09-27-07, 11:16 AM

aleeper21

09-27-07, 02:27 PM

Mr Bob

09-27-07, 02:28 PM

Thanks Mr. Bob.

Next question would of course be where can I get the service manual. I would like to use your phone consulting services to walk me through a couple tweaks on my set once I get the manual. I've been through just about all the fixes listed in this site (thanks to you and the other contributors) for my set and now feel fairly confident for once that its stable enough to tackle some calibration issues. The only thing I've done to improve image quality has been to clean the lens's and mirror based upon your method described previously.

The main issue right now appears if I'm not mistaken to be the grayscale is off. I gather this by the greenish verticle band I can somewhat see on the screen when the picture is all black. The only other thing would be possibly help with a deep lens cleaning. Feel free to give me some suggestions to if there should be other priorities than these. I can't spend a boat load of money as I'm fairly strapped as it is, so maybe this can be done in phases.

thanks
Vince

You should be able to get it from Pioneer. I am sure there are resources on the net to get such a thing to you.

I don't know anything about this band you speak of. But when green appears where it should be black - very common on older Pioneers, with black hair, esp., looking green - then yes, the grayscale is definitely suspect, and needs to be be fully re-linearized. Pioneers track grayscale excellently when calibrated accurately.

There is a veritable menu of calibration services that get covered in a complete calibration done by me. Send me a request by regular email - not pm - and I'll send you my ready to go emailout on such services, and basic cal prices.

Anyone who's curious about such things, please email me as well.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

09-27-07, 03:08 PM

Boy, do I have a power supply problem. I have a Pro510 and the power has now shut off for the third time in the last several months. The first repair fixed the problem. Pioneer replaced the board(I'm not sure which one) but I had to eat the labor costs. Within 90 days or so the same thing happened. (red light would come on and when I turned the power on the set would click on for a second then shutoff) The second repair was on 6/1/07. This time the PS was replaced at no charge but I had to pay for the $250 RPG board plus the labor of $200. Today the thing shut off for good. No red light just no power! The repaiman I used the last two times said he'd call Pioneer to see what they could do. Apparentley Pioneer sends refurbished parts and they must be failing. There are no picture issues that I've noticed. Anyone else have any simliar probelms with the power on this set. Any help wouild be appreciated. By the way my wife is about to explode especially since I just purchased an elite plasma for our game room. Maybe there is a higher up at Pioneer I can write about what appears to be a manufacturing defect. Lastly, I am a lawyer-anyone interested in joining a class action lawsuit!! I'm joking...sorta.

I don't know what the RPG board is. I have never heard of one needing to be replaced, and I have read every page on this thread.

I have resoldered many, many PS board for these x10 units, have repaired many convergence boards on them, and have replaced a few deflection boards, on this x10 series, and heard of the successful replacement of even more deflection boards.

Almost without exception I have never been called back because there was a failure on any of my repairs on these, including the calibration tours I have done to the other side of the country, which have included a number of repairs of these units. The only exception was a deflection bd replacement last week in San Jose, where a few days after completing the repair I was called back to remedy an intermittent board failure on the defl board sent to me by Pioneer, and I had to order a new one and drive it down and reinstall it and send the defective one back.

I have never had a PS board fail later, after a resoldering job done by me. That's one reason I recommend resoldering the old one rather than buying a new one and installing it, along with your experience of Pioneer ("apparently"???) selling refurbed boards that won't hold up. Of course they are refurbed! They ran out of new ones years ago. That's why there's a $100 core charge whenever you order a board from Pio, to assure that they get the old one back!

So you're not alone! But it's not been a common occurrence that I have experienced or heard of, that their boards go bad.

That defl bd that failed on me could have been handled by phone if it had been across the country, or by the owner if the owner had replaced it himself.

I would not attempt a repair on something where I knew there was a strong chance of having to come out of pocket on a second plane flight, to go back and remedy something that went wrong with a repair I did on the other side of the country.

On these units I don't have to worry about that - I am glad to be flown anywhere one of these Pioneers needs to be repaired, on the issues covered in this thread. After your post and my experience last week, however, I will from now on be coaching anybody on the other side of the country who has me replace their defl bd, on how to redo that replace job on their own if necessary - ie, if their replacement defl bd fails.

I would glad to be an expert witness for you, BTW, if a class action suit gets off the ground.

;)

Mr Bob

aleeper21

09-28-07, 06:05 AM

Mr Bob

09-28-07, 10:47 AM

Mr. Bob,
Thanks for the reply. I pulled the last ticket and the RGB board was replaced at a cost of $250.00. My mistake. The odd thing that I recall was the initial board that was replaced looked as if it overheated as there was a burn mark on the board. No smoke or anything just the red laight came on and the unit wouldn't turn on. the latest is that we called pioneer and they said they are looking into this with the tech. We'll see!

Luckily enough that particular malady is VERY uncommon on Pioneer Elites, and has the kind of frequency of occurence that all problems with HDreadys should have: almost none. This would be the kind of frequency that the defl bd problems have. The PS board problem this thread is primarily all about does NOT fit that regular frequency of problem scenario! It's happening all over the place, and should not have happened at all.

The conv bd problems fall somewhere in between, as they are workhorses and fail often in ALL CRT RPTVs. Fortunately they are like changing out a thermostat in a car - you usually just change out the ICs and you're on your way again.

Pioneer's type of red LED/bd process is usually used only in the expensive ceiling pjs, where there are various forms of it. On my Barco Data 800 pj, which I got free when it had a problem in a boardroom and was given to me, the -18v LED was on, indicating a problem in that power supply. It was one of a string of LEDs that had to stay OFF during proper operation. Remedying that particular power supply situation - a single cold solder joint! - got my "new" Barco pj up and running within the hour.

Would that all electronic devices had such simple and yet comprehensive trouble indicators!

:rolleyes:

Mr Bob

tsbrand1

09-30-07, 03:18 PM

You realize you got incredibly lucky. NOBODY SHOULD RUN THESE UNITS FOR A MONTH AFTER THE BLUE FLASH HAS APPEARED.

You saw how bad the factory soldering job was. It could just as easily have been some other bad joint in there finally giving way, that could have domino effected into a much more serious problem. You're an ee. You concur?

Yup, but at the time I didn't know what sort of issue it was. It seemed to be coming from the DVD player - I only saw the blue flash when playing DVD's, but that was just coincidence. It probably didn't help that when I tapped the DVD player (on top of the TV...) it flashed. Now that I know it was the power supply, it still makes sense but it wasn't what I thought.

However, I may NOT have gotten away with it, sadly.

Today, about a month later, the set refused to turn on, and I have a red light on the board just to the left that has the flyback transformers on it. I assume that's the deflection board?

Your opinion - should I replace both the ps and deflection boards or just the deflection board? Is there a history of deflection board solder joints being bad? Is it worth touching up? Or should I just replace it for starters?

And I believe you said in another post that there are eeproms I need to scavenge off the current deflection board? Do you know which ones?

Thanks for the help, hopefully this set isn't becoming a bench queen.

Mr Bob

10-01-07, 02:19 AM

Yup, but at the time I didn't know what sort of issue it was. It seemed to be coming from the DVD player - I only saw the blue flash when playing DVD's, but that was just coincidence. It probably didn't help that when I tapped the DVD player (on top of the TV...) it flashed. Now that I know it was the power supply, it still makes sense but it wasn't what I thought.

However, I may NOT have gotten away with it, sadly.

Today, about a month later, the set refused to turn on, and I have a red light on the board just to the left that has the flyback transformers on it. I assume that's the deflection board?

Your opinion - should I replace both the ps and deflection boards or just the deflection board? Is there a history of deflection board solder joints being bad? Is it worth touching up? Or should I just replace it for starters?

And I believe you said in another post that there are eeproms I need to scavenge off the current deflection board? Do you know which ones?

Thanks for the help, hopefully this set isn't becoming a bench queen.

Well, there you have it, folks. Problems on the PS board, left unattended, and then coincidentally, permanent damage to the defl bd. Was it really coincidental that awhile later the defl bd goes out?

I believe the defl bd would not have been damaged if the set had not been allowed to stay on after the first intermittent problems had been noticed. If the set was continued to be allowed to run during intermittent failures, I believe those intermittencies took out the defl bd. I looked up your former post and while you are proficient at soldering, you didn't say whether you resoldered everything on that board except the heat sinks and test points, or whether you only soldered what you considered to be the relevant points. My views on that issue have been made plain here on this thread more than once - that TOTAL resoldering of everything that connects to anything on that board is the answer, not partial resoldering.

I have examined defl bds and have found no cold solder joints, nor even suspicious ones, so you have to just grit your teeth and spring for its replacement. You can buy it from me or from Pioneer.

I would replace the defl bd first, to make sure the new one works properly, and hope that your PS bd has problems intermittently only, still, and still works properly most of the time. If your set works again, don't resolder the PS board yet. Just turn it off, and quickly.

Once you have confirmed that the new defl bd is working properly again because the unit is working properly again, shut the unit down again promptly, just as soon as you've confirmed coherent image on the screen. You don't want a repeat scenario of what you've just encountered. If you've been lucky enough for your set to be working again, THEN resolder the PS board, and don't wait.

You will have kept the unit on for only a few seconds, just enough time to confirm normal ops. Do NOT leave it on any longer than that before resoldering the PS board, or you'll be taking a chance on the same thing happening all over again.

If you're not lucky and the set still fails to come on, try resoldering the PS bd, but know that your starting point this time was not a good, trustable one. You may now need to replace the PS bd, there's no concrete way to tell whether you do or don't, now. If you get the resoldering wrong, you won't know it because the problems with the defl bd may be clouding the issue. Ultimately you may have to replace both boards, and hope that something else didn't get damaged downline, because of the problems on either one. If you don't want to take any chances, just replace both boards now.

The service manual says that the defl bd contains critical eeproms that should be transfered to the new one, so you'll have to refer to that manual or to Pioneer to find out where. When you do, please share that with us here. I have not had occasion to need to know that up till now, as I have always done a complete calibration after replacing a defl bd.

Anyone want to continue to debate, as to whether owners should continue to operate their sets once they have noticed the blue flash on it?

Mr Bob

tsbrand1

10-01-07, 01:24 PM

Mr Bob

10-01-07, 01:41 PM

Well, the day that I found this forum last month, I resoldered the power supply board.

It's worked perfectly since. No flashes, no flickers, no shutdowns, no picture problems, until the day I turned on the set and it faulted.

That doesn't mean the ps board didn't damage the deflection board before I resoldered it, though - I got the very surprising white bloom o' death shutdown at the end, it's what sent me looking for information. So at that point at the least, the deflection board got something it didn't like much. It may have been "walking dead" since then.

I did resolder every working joint on the power supply board, a lot of them didn't look like they needed it but given the number of them that were bad I didn't want to risk it.

I do have the manual with the schematics, it shouldn't be any problem to figure out what's what on the board in terms of eeproms.

BTW, looking back over the thread, I get the impression that a failing deflection board following a ps issue has happened more than once, although I may be misreading some of the posts.

I ordered the board from Pioneer last night. I didn't know you had any. I'll post after I get it replaced.

Good, looks like you handled it just the way I woulda, aside from running it too long with intermittent problems, but your explanation of that makes sense also.

Yes, I believe that defl bd gets stressed by the PS bd weaknesses. To have a delayed reaction and have it fail later on doesn't make it look like that would be the case - and there's no way to actually prove that - but I think we'll find more defl bds going down AFTER the PS problems show their ugly heads, than before.

Mr Bob

PS - I don't have any boards, I order them too. I just get a dealer cost discount, which makes it worth it to be in the loop.

JUST worth it, really, there's not an awful lot of profit to be had, in that loop...

jfwilson

10-02-07, 04:44 PM

Just to follow up, I replaced the deflector board and everything is back up and running! It is definitely a good feeling to get the TV back, like most of you I was ready to scrap it out. I couldn't find anything obvious that looked like eeproms (or labeled at all), so I'm just going to send back the old board and wait till I can get someone out to calibrate it.

How many others are on the East Coast (DC Metro Area) who want to chip in to get Mr. Bob out here to clean your optics and calibrate your set?

bradesp

10-02-07, 07:58 PM

How many others are on the East Coast (DC Metro Area) who want to chip in to get Mr. Bob out here to clean your optics and calibrate your set?

I'm in, but would prefer I have one more Raleigh / Durham / Chapel Hill partner to split the costs from DC down to the Raleigh / RTP area.

Anyone???? BTW, I'm a Pro-710HD owner, circa 2001.

Thanks!

bradesp

Mr Bob

10-02-07, 09:33 PM

I'm in, but would prefer I have one more Raleigh / Durham / Chapel Hill partner to split the costs from DC down to the Raleigh / RTP area.

Anyone???? BTW, I'm a Pro-710HD owner, circa 2001.

Thanks!

bradesp

Lookin' good, guys. I'm in. Very much enjoyed coming to WADC earlier this year - Leesburg, Countryside, then down to Atlanta, then a stop in St. Louis on the way back -

Remember, if any of your friends have CRT RPTVs regardless of brand, chances are they are in dire need of optics cleanings by now. That helps flesh out a cal tour something fierce.

I have friends in Miami I'd love to visit again, if anyone down there wants to take advantage of my already being on your side of the country for this trip -

Mr Bob

motobill

10-03-07, 09:38 AM

How much would it be for a NYC leg of your tour?

Mr Bob

10-03-07, 08:21 PM

How much would it be for a NYC leg of your tour?

If I have to drive to get to you, you spring for the rental car and $75/hr ground travel, RT. If you drive, we share the ride together, there are no travel fees, and hopefully you get hungry at the same time I do and pick up the tab...

I don't charge for time in the air, even tho it is lost production time. I do ask for coverage for shuttles back and forth from my airport, one going and one coming back. It's only a 20 minute trip -

Mr Bob

motobill

10-03-07, 08:25 PM

PM me when you're in the NYC area...sounds too expensive to bring you up from DC.

Mr Bob

10-03-07, 11:49 PM

PM me when you're in the NYC area...sounds too expensive to bring you up from DC.

I didn't think you were talking about having me drive up from DC. I was talking about between owners, in whatever city I would be in.

Surely there are cheap plane flights aplenty from DC to NYC. Seems a shame to have me spend something like 8 hours drive time - always risking tickets - when I could be flown instead -

Atlanta was not all that close to Leesburg, nor to Daytona Beach, but was flyable, and very inexpensively -

Mr Bob

Gujustud

10-07-07, 03:05 AM

Thanks for all the info Mr. Bob.

I finally had the blue flicker problem fixed on our SD-532-HD5 several months ago. Luckily our set was under warranty, so they sent someone to come and re solder the board which fixed all the problems. I couldn't get the guy to do anything like (like remove any dust from inside).

The reason I'm writing back up on this thread, is because I just got a Toshiba HD-A2. HD = overscan galore. Is this a easy fix?

It wasn't so bad with my HD over cable, but with the A2 its pretty noticeable.

Mr Bob

10-07-07, 04:21 AM

The reason I'm writing back up on this thread, is because I just got a Toshiba HD-A2. HD = overscan galore. Is this a easy fix?

It wasn't so bad with my HD over cable, but with the A2 its pretty noticeable.

Yes and no.

Yes it's easy to take in that overscan.

No, it's NOT easy to remedy all the hosing of your picture that happens as a result. This is something that has been plaguing CRT RPTVs since HD began here in the states. It has been one of the things CRT calibrators have had to get really good at, and on ALL brands.

There is a very long learning curve to reducing overscan on Pioneers, and on Pioneer calibration in general. I have mastered it and can do it in my sleep now, but it took quite awhile, even after getting the proper directions. There's lots of nips and tucks you'd never expect that I had to figure out myself, as there is absolutely no instruction available for a lot of it, in there. The service manual gives you the basics, then you're on your own. Sink or swim, and believe me, your unit doesn't care which.

If you have not done it before, I recommend you have someone in the know do it, who has had extensive experience doing it, on lots and lots of Pioneers.

Mr Bob

KatieP

10-12-07, 01:04 AM

Mr Bob

10-12-07, 07:52 AM

I have had the flash, pop, turn-off for maybe a year. I thought the set was kind of wearing out (since it is 8 years old). This last time, it flashed, and popped, but didn't turn off. It just showed a white, pincushioned screen. I was sure it was a goner. So, I thought to review back here to see what people are buying these days. Low and behold, I found this thread last night. So today, I took the PS board out, bought a cheapo soldering iron, and with a slightly trembling hand, resoldered all of the power connectors and the couple of ICs mentioned.

I put it all back together, and sure enough it ran just fine. In fact it ran all night just fine.

Count me in the group of people very impressed with this forum. Thanks for saving me a bunch of money to replace the silly TV.

Now I have to hope the deflection board was not damaged in the last year. Even if it is, I am much more confident now of how to play with these parts.

Thanks all for your information and insights!

K :)

Yeah, there's a regulator in there that feeds power to the convergence bd. You have prolly saved yourself a conv repair in the future as well.

Are you ready to have your set cleaned and calibrated and returned to its former glory? 3 Mr Bob cal tours already - 2 to the East Coast and 1 to your neck of the woods - have already happened this year, primarily with Pioneer owners. Who have all been ecstatic with their "new" sets! Several threads have been written here on the AVS about those cal tours, all with glowing reviews of my work on them.

Set it up and I will come. It's cheap to fly me to SoCal. I fly out of OAK.

If anyone knows how to hit a wider market than the internet with the news that we are saving these units right and left, please contact me. Public service announcements, maybe?

We don't have much time left.

Mr Bob

gbaby

10-12-07, 11:03 AM

Yeah, there's a regulator in there that feeds power to the convergence bd. You have prolly saved yourself a conv repair in the future as well.

Are you ready to have your set cleaned and calibrated and returned to its former glory? 3 Mr Bob cal tours already - 2 to the East Coast and 1 to your neck of the woods - have already happened this year, primarily with Pioneer owners. Who have all been ecstatic with their "new" sets! Several threads have been written here on the AVS about those cal tours, all with glowing reviews of my work on them.

Set it up and I will come. It's cheap to fly me to SoCal. I fly out of OAK.

If anyone knows how to hit a wider market than the internet with the news that we are saving these units right and left, please contact me. Public service announcements, maybe?

We don't have much time left.

Mr Bob

I'm in New Bern, NC which is 111 miles east of Raleigh on the east coast of NC. I own a Pioneer Elite Pro 720, and I'd like to have my TV re-calibrated. My e-mail address is rgraynor@yahoo.com

Mr Bob

10-12-07, 02:45 PM

I'm in New Bern, NC which is 111 miles east of Raleigh on the east coast of NC. I own a Pioneer Elite Pro 720, and I'd like to have my TV re-calibrated. My e-mail address is rgraynor@yahoo.com
Please send your contact info to my regular email address, (not by pm), including your phone number. There's interest in your part of the country, see posts 1085 and 1086 on this page, above, plus check for other entries.

I am sending you costs and services information to your email address.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

10-12-07, 03:00 PM

You guys gotta check out what's happening over at the ceiling pjs section, where CRT triple-gun is king. My CRT RPTV pic looks like those there. Does yours?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11886630#post11886630

Scroll up to find the actual shots themselves.

:)

Mr Bob

tmmuch

10-13-07, 06:06 PM

this?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21151552/

tsbrand1

10-14-07, 07:48 PM

The service manual says that the defl bd contains critical eeproms that should be transfered to the new one, so you'll have to refer to that manual or to Pioneer to find out where. When you do, please share that with us here. I have not had occasion to need to know that up till now, as I have always done a complete calibration after replacing a defl bd.

Anyone want to continue to debate, as to whether owners should continue to operate their sets once they have noticed the blue flash on it?

Mr Bob

Well, I finally got the board in, and had a week's delay on top of it due to work before I could buckle down and look at it.

The deflection service assembly, which is the big board with the flyback and HV distributor, does NOT have EEPROMs. The boards with EEPROMs are the signal assy, and the digital convergence assy, so there's nothing to remove and replace with the deflection board in terms of EEPROMs.

It was pretty straightforward to replace, once I figured out that it was held in with "mushroom head" bolts and it slid in to lock. Also you're just going to have to pry off the speaker grille and remove the electronics bay hatch on the front in order to access the CRT ground strap and the focus block power connector, so go ahead and get it over with. It feels like you're going to break something getting the grill off but you won't. I recommend a butter knife instead of a screwdriver.

With the exception of one pair, the connectors are all different sizes and are keyed, so you'll have trouble messing that up. The two that are the same size are color coded red and white so while you COULD mess them up, you'd have to work at it.

It took a couple of hours because I was triple checking and making sure I got the cables back in their retaining clips. I could do it the second time in less than 30 minutes.

Since I had soldered the power supply board a month ago from stem to stern, and had never had another flicker, I decided it was probably ok.

After carefully firing it up, I got a really good picture. The convergence was definitely off in all modes, but not by a LOT, just enough to be annoying to me. I ran through the user convergence and cleaned it right up.

Wow. I think the first board had something wrong with it for a long time. I am amazed at the picture improvement. I don't understand why, but the white balance is much improved with this board. I was about to break down and do a white balance before due to green shading in dark areas. But not now. I don't know if I just got the luck of the draw or what. The whites and greys are way better in terms of color balance, and for some reason the contrast is higher, and the saturation was too high now on non-HD, and a nasty tint issue has cleared up. All the picture controls had to be moved back to dead center from the offsets I'd had to put them on over the last few months. I don't know why those changed. But I'm not complaining at all.

I'm almost glad it went out, the new one is a definite improvement.

Jetmeck

10-15-07, 04:15 AM

How much was the board ? Did PIO want a core charge ?

Johnla

10-15-07, 04:49 AM

How much was the board ? Did PIO want a core charge ?

Here is the Pioneer parts page/list, and pricing.

http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/model.asp?modelNum=PRO510HD

http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/part.asp?productNum=AWV1809

You will be charged a $100 core charge if you buy a board direct from Pioneer. You get the core charge back, only after you send them the old board back. Unless you can find someone that has boards in-stock and where you can send/give them your old board first, you will be charged a core charge no matter where you buy the board from.

Mr Bob

10-16-07, 01:58 PM

Well, I finally got the board in, and had a week's delay on top of it due to work before I could buckle down and look at it.

The deflection service assembly, which is the big board with the flyback and HV distributor, does NOT have EEPROMs. The boards with EEPROMs are the signal assy, and the digital convergence assy, so there's nothing to remove and replace with the deflection board in terms of EEPROMs.

I am very glad to hear that. So much for blindly believing what the service manual says -

;)

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

10-16-07, 02:02 PM

tsbrand1

10-18-07, 08:12 PM

How much was the board ? Did PIO want a core charge ?

Yep, it was right at 300 bucks plus another 100 for the core charge.

Weirdly enough, they sent me two and charged me for one.

I asked them for a return authorization for the second one (and a return ticket on their own dime), and they said they'd fax one but never did.

I guess when it gets here I'll hit them again. It's a bit tempting to just "return it unopened" and get my deflection board for free but my conscience won't permit it. Actually, after having returned the core already when the second one shipped, I'd make $100 on the deal minus shipping.

tsbrand1

10-18-07, 08:22 PM

I am very glad to hear that. So much for blindly believing what the service manual says -

;)

Mr Bob

Yeah, I know I saw the other reference you saw, because I was convinced I was going to have to move some ROMS over.

I got the schems out, didn't see any at all, went over it several times without finding any, then went over the board with a fine-toothed comb, no EEPROMS. I finally found another table in the manuals that says where the EEPROMS are hidden: they're only on the digital conv board and the signal assy.

Fine by me. I wasn't looking forward to taking that PCB out of its support frame - it's unwieldy and probably easy to crack a land.

BTW everyone- when you replace the deflection assy, replace it frame and all. There's no reason to dismount the board from the frame, and many reasons not to. The PS board is a different matter. Oh, and while the deflection assy frame has four feet with screw holes, mine only had one screw in, and it was right in the open by the back. I felt around for a while trying to find the two front screw heads by touch. The reason you won't find them is that they're not there. The slide locks do all the work of retaining the frame.

Mr Bob

10-19-07, 06:08 AM

I finally found another table in the manuals that says where the EEPROMS are hidden: they're only on the digital conv board and the signal assy.

Fine by me. I wasn't looking forward to taking that PCB out of its support frame - it's unwieldy and probably easy to crack a land.

Right. I have examined the defl bds and they don't contain any cold solder joints, nor does the conv bd contain any, even around the legs of the ICs, which is where you will find them on Mits HDreadys and the older SD Sonys.

BTW everyone- when you replace the deflection assy, replace it frame and all. There's no reason to dismount the board from the frame, and many reasons not to. The PS board is a different matter.

Right. The PS board has to be exposed for the resoldering, as there is mucho metal plating in the frame covering major parts of the underside of the board, preventing ready access to all solder joints, all of which have to be completely exposed. So the frame has to be separated from the board, and the board completely removed. Best to unplug all board plug-ins before even starting to unscrew that board, so you have something solid to tug on.

Not so on the defl bd, which is a total board swapout, so no need to separate board from frame. As tsbrand1 mentioned, it only takes one major screw to hold the entire frame down, because of the slots both boards sit in.

The frame never comes off the unit, in the case of resoldering the PS bd. The PS board DOES come off the frame, tho.

Mr Bob

macav

10-23-07, 08:05 PM

Mr Bob

10-23-07, 09:39 PM

My set has started to pop and turn off, at times it wont turn on at all. A deep cleaning is also needed. Some years back someone came out and cleaned the set and turned down the guns. Over the years the picture is very dark, and I need to run the contrast up to have a good picture. Any ideas who I can contact in the Detroit area to get this fixed?
Thanks Tom

I believe at least one other guy in Detroit wants some cal work done as well.

It only takes 2 or 3 people on board to make the travel expenses of getting me there emminently affordable to all.

Repair and calibration are typically like oil and water. Finding someone who knows it all - both repair AND calibration - will be quite a stretch, and as such you'll have to fly somebody in, in any case. May as well be someone who DOES know all the ins and outs of these Pioneer 510/610/710 problems.

:)

I have done 3 major trips - 2 of them to the other side of the country - so far this year already, in this regard. Have me on it and you will have the most experienced tech/calibrator in the country on it, for the expert remedying of all the problems your set has.

Mr Bob

macav

10-24-07, 05:49 PM

I have someone coming to help me with the solder joints, with my additional problem of having to run the contrast up real high, is it possible to increase the output of the tubes. The repair shop stated that the tubes may need replacing and a sign of them going is decreased output. I really dont want to get into that much of a overall. Any ideas?
Thanks
Tom
Detroit

Mr Bob

10-25-07, 09:08 AM

NO. CRTs have a linear operating range, which cannot be exceeded without massive deterioration of the picture, in terms of linearity of the grayscale, blooming of the focusing, tearing apart of the convergence, and in extreme cases where the guns actually have too much age on them, trails off to the right in particular colors, from strong parts of the images.

I have never yet seen an HDready need new guns, no matter what the brand, and Pioneers have hung in there even better than most, as their default Contrast position is always dead center of the bargraph, 50% up, which is ideal for CRT. 50% Contrast places your set smack dab in the middle of its linear operating range, which is the only way to run a videophile grade CRT HDready.

The need for gun replacement may happen under severe usage, but I have not run across that AT ALL, at this point in the relatively young life of HD in this country. Which is late by Japanese standards, but early by Brazilian standards, that country having only started to have HD last year. I personally stayed behind and talked with Brazil's Minister of Communications about that last year at CES after his presentation on it, offering my help in any way I could.

Anyone who attended that particular conference needed to be pre-screened, BTW. Security was high on that one!

Most of the Pioneers I encounter of your series are very dark-looking when I encounter them. This is normal for an aging set, but does not mean the guns need replacement.

It means the optics are severely dirty by now in its lifespan, and they need professional grade attention. It also has to do with the critical adjustments done by calibration in the areas of white balance and dark detail levels.

The sm brightness needs to be recalibrated - you can do what you can with the user br also - so that once the optics are clean again and you can see detail in dark areas again (it is no longer being swamped out by the dirt caked on your lenses by now) the brightness can now be turned up, to restore that "shadow detail", as it is called, that is presently missing from your pic.

The overall "brightness" of your pic is served by 2 parameters - the Contrast, which controls the overall light level of your picture, and the Brightness, which fills in dark detail properly and only affects the dark areas of your picture. As such, Br can only be properly set on dark scenes, which should be a combination of scenes with dark everywhere, and scenes with dark parts and bright parts.

The Br - whether in sm or user - needs to be set where both are excellent, which may require playing with it for different channels, even in the age of HD. The room lighting needs to be low enough to match movie theater conditions, at which point with clean optics you will have plenty of light level coming from your screen to not have to worry anymore about how dim your picture seems to be.

I have fully restored the former light levels of countless CRT RPTVs over the years, I am a specialist at that. I have never been a fan of a dim picture!

Your set, if used in a normal manner all these years, has not the slightest need of new guns.

It simply needs the touch of the master's hand.

;)

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

10-25-07, 09:26 AM

I am flying to Portland later today, to be there for the next few days until I fly back again on Tuesday.

Anyone wanting repair or calibration work done on their setups should contact me immediately if you want that work done while I am there. Either call and leave a message or email me at my regular email address.

Please don't pm me here unless it is an emergency and you can't get to your email program to email me at my regular email address. Or if my email is down, which is not the case for the present nor for the forseeable future. My email program is past its former problems and is cranking away just fine now.

Looking forward to serving anyone in that area while I am there. Sorry for the late notice, but life has had me pinned down a bit lately -

:)

Mr Bob

Hoosblues

10-29-07, 09:53 AM

Mr Bob

10-29-07, 11:57 AM

Add me to the list of folks experiencing flashes, pops and cutoffs on their Pioneer Elite Pro 510. I have had my TV for 6+ years and it suddenly started exhibiting subtle flashes (thought it was the satellite at first), then blue/white larger flashes, then the dreaded pop, and cutoff. Once the cutoff happened, I disconnected the TV and started my research. Good old AVSForum had all of the info that I need (of course). I pulled the PS board and brought it to a friend who is handy with a soldering iron. He re-soldered the whole board and the TV has been rock solid for a week. I think the picture is better than it has ever been. Thanks to everyone on this thread who contributed! :)

Great! You're home free. If you resoldered everything that connected to anything else in there, no matter how tiny the conn's are, your problems are over. Meaning you can disregard ONLY the test points and heat sinks, which don't go anywhere in there, and as such are the only things in there that don't need the resoldering.

Now clean the optics and make it look virtually brand new. Calibration would be good too - HUGE amounts of drift happen on these units, esp. in the grayscale and the convergence - conv on red and blue to green can be retweaked in user menu, of course - and the focusing is usually out on 2 of the 3 guns on all of them OOB, which never changes until thoroughly calibrated.

But you can live with a lot of that if you sit far enough away, and can put up with the relative smallness in picture size sitting that far away dictates.

Fully calibrated, my Elite owners - and non-Elite Pioneer HDready owners as well - get to sit a full one-third closer to their sets than ever before in terms of viewing distance - same viewing distances/size as Mit recommends for their 1080p DLPs - rendering a half-again BIGGER picture for them to watch, than ever before possible with their units. They get to experience full-blown Home Cinema, not just everyday Home Theater.

The smallness of picture, as I said, can be lived with, if needed to hide all the flaws via sitting farther away from the set. The optics cleaning now, on the other hand, is a MUST-DO on these units at this age, an absolute essential at ANY viewing distance, calibrated or not. See my website for details as to why.

It's simply scheduled maintenance, and can't be overlooked on a $5000 piece of dazzlingly sophisticated equipment, like the 510/610/710s are.

;)

Mr Bob

bajju

10-31-07, 05:30 PM

randomstatic

10-31-07, 11:31 PM

Mr Bob

11-01-07, 12:02 PM

My pioneer is acting up, nothing is coming on the display. Previously it would work for 5-10 mins and then trip, but now it is refusing to show images.

when I switch it on, I see green led on the front panel, but nothing happens.
I lost the remote for the TV some years back, and have operated the set without it ever since.

Read on forums, that I might want to try

(1) resolder the ps board.

(2) see if convergence board is ok

(3) Check the two fuses and two ic's

I am game for above, but was wanting to know, how to open the set from back or front?

is there a service manual which can guide me?

Appreciate your help.

Rgds,
Deepak

The back is held on by a bunch of regular sized Philips screws.

DO NOT remove the top, angled portion of the back that contains the mirror! Incredible amounts of damage would ensue. JUST the lowest section, the fibreboard section on the bottom of the back, the straight up vertically mounted section.

It is unusual that the green light on the front would stay on when there is no picture.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

11-01-07, 12:11 PM

I have a PRO610 HD that the convergence AMP went bad. My father replaced the IC's and it got better (Although very sub par we could watch everything execpt HD). I finally ordered the Conv AMP from pioneer and it fixed the problem. I returned the old board with the IC's replaced for the core deposit (we had be watching the TV like this for 4 weeks). The Conv AMP worked perfectly and the picture was great for 2 days until a pop and no picture. The PS and the Conv AMP both have red lights and there is 1 blown fuse on the PS board. If I replace the fuse will this fix the problem or is it possible that the Conv AMP from pioneer is bad and need to be replaced?
thanks

Prolly need to send the conv amp bd back.

Fuses are meant to be indicative of an overcurrent-draw situation, so replacing them seldom helps, as there are seldom defective fuses, tho I have seen it.

Try replacing it first - if it blows again, then you know for sure.

The PS board contains regulators for the voltage that goes to the conv bd, so if it has not been resoldered, that might be a good idea also.

But what is most likely suspect right now is that conv bd being bad. Send it back before any more time goes by, so they don't give you any flack on doing so.

I just had to send back a bad defl bd, so their boards may have sat on a shelf too long, once in awhile. New, new board solved the problem.

Be sure to get an RA from Pio before sending ANY bds back, even for core charge. And make sure the serial numbers are evident on the boards before doing so.

Going by serial numbers is a relatively new thing they are doing. I almost was not credited back on the bad new board because I didn't get an RA from them, nor did my returned board have any sticker on it with its original serial number. Must have fallen off.

I was not told about this serial number thing up front, so they relented and fully credited me. But I had to fight for it.

Mr Bob

randomstatic

11-02-07, 11:20 AM

Mr Bob

11-03-07, 12:53 PM

Thanks Mr. Bob,

I replaced the fuse and the tv powered right up. I had the blue flash and th ps problem before that took several visits to correct but it was fixed while still under the extended warranty. The fuse blew directly after power up and this has not occured since replacing the fuse yesterday. Do you think if I give it some more time and it does not occur again that I should be ok?

thanks for your help
Bill

Did the fust blow hard or soft? Hard means all sorts of blackening would be covering the glass on the inside, indicating a huge amount of shorting downline, drawing immense amounts of current until the fuse blows. Soft means the internal wire simply separated from itself internally, glass still clear, which could have been a weak fuse.

Keep using it and see. You did use ONLY a regular, glass, 5 amp fast-blow fuse, right?

BTW, if your PS board was not completely soldered by the techs on your ESP, there could be further problems in the future. Usually repair techs only do what they have to, since warranty rates are so dismal.

All conns in there on the PS bd, except for the test points and heat sinks, need to have been resoldered, for having that board last and last and last, like the many many other boards in the unit, which are doing just fine.

Mr Bob

Marc in Canada

11-04-07, 04:21 PM

Fantastic thread and effort to help others. I have spent about 3 hours reading it as I experienced a slight blue flash while watching Return of the King dvd two nights ago. This was followed yesterday by the TV shutting itself off. I was able to restart it after several minutes from the front controls after reinserting the power cord. However the next time I attempted to watch TV the set would not turn on after multiple attempts.
After reading all postings, it sounded like the power supply in combination with the fuses and the convergence chips were the likely cuulprits. However this morning, I plugged it in one last time and it started up fine. I only left it on a short time as I do not want to cause any more damage.
As it started up, I now assume that the most appropriate course of action should be restricted to resoldering the PS board.

Are there any other Pro Elite x10 owners in Vancouver Canada who might have a referral for a good technician in this area. Except for some initial self tweaking 7 years ago, I have not attempted to refine the picture quality nor have it cleaned. The picture quality imo is still super although on some very dark scenes, I wonder if perhaps it is a little too black.

I would appreciate any constructive input as I have never soldered in my life.

Thanks in advance.

Marc

Mr Bob

11-04-07, 04:29 PM

randomstatic

11-05-07, 01:19 PM

Did the fust blow hard or soft? Hard means all sorts of blackening would be covering the glass on the inside, indicating a huge amount of shorting downline, drawing immense amounts of current until the fuse blows. Soft means the internal wire simply separated from itself internally, glass still clear, which could have been a weak fuse.

Keep using it and see. You did use ONLY a regular, glass, 5 amp fast-blow fuse, right?

BTW, if your PS board was not completely soldered by the techs on your ESP, there could be further problems in the future. Usually repair techs only do what they have to, since warranty rates are so dismal.

All conns in there on the PS bd, except for the test points and heat sinks, need to have been resoldered, for having that board last and last and last, like the many many other boards in the unit, which are doing just fine.

Mr Bob
Mr Bob,

The 1st blown fuse was soft with seperation. It blew again yesterday again on power up. Just before I powered it down I was readjusting the convergence for HD as it does not seem that it can be set exacly right in HD (a little bowing in the bottom and the top right corner). It seems to pulse a little in HD. I will again pull the fuse tonight and find out how it blew. I did replace it with a 125v 5amp. I will replace tonight with a 250v 5amp. I have heard of slow blow fuses, what are your thoughts on this? Being that the fuses did not start to blow until the Convergance Amp was replaced, it it possible that this part is bad?

thanks
Bill

Mr Bob

11-05-07, 02:42 PM

Mr Bob,

The 1st blown fuse was soft with seperation. It blew again yesterday again on power up. Just before I powered it down I was readjusting the convergence for HD as it does not seem that it can be set exacly right in HD (a little bowing in the bottom and the top right corner). It seems to pulse a little in HD. I will again pull the fuse tonight and find out how it blew. I did replace it with a 125v 5amp. I will replace tonight with a 250v 5amp. I have heard of slow blow fuses, what are your thoughts on this? Being that the fuses did not start to blow until the Convergance Amp was replaced, it it possible that this part is bad?

thanks
Bill

Yes. Since it has blown twice, I'd call it a day and send that new conv board back to them, for replacement.

Slow blow fuses are for different apps, in this case you want to stick with fast blow.

250v vs. 125v is only related to arcing, and at this low voltage - below 50v - it won't make any difference.

Be sure and get an RA from Pioneer before sending their bogus conv bd back to them.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

11-05-07, 03:02 PM

Don't worry about not having HDMI on your Elites. Forget about having to buy new, just to get HDMI.

Curt Palme - www.curtpalme.com - world class ceiling pj guru, very well known in the ceiling pj community, has come up with a front pj-grade processor for converting HDMI to component or RGB, both of which work on the Pioneer Elite units.

And VERY affordable, at $239, which includes shipping!

http://www.curtpalme.com/box1080.shtm

Mr Bob

echeft

11-06-07, 10:39 PM

Thank you SO much for your efforts in posting! It has been most helpful.

I still think I need a little direction though. I think that the convergence correction driver IC on my 510 may need replacing. The multi-point convergence adjustment is not responsive. I have had a red ghost image at bottom left and top right of the screen for a few weeks now. It looks like the image is curled up on itself like the corner of a page. The multi-point convergence screen reveals the same problem but will not respond to adjusting.

Will this require a professional? My husband has electronics/components background. He thought it might be the guns, but from reading the posts, it doesn't sound like it. We purchased our 510 in 2000, making a considerable investment and thinking we wouldn't have to buy another TV for a long time.

Many thanks for any suggestions!

Erin

Mr Bob

11-07-07, 12:06 PM

Conv probs are quite common in all CRT RPTVs. I am a repair tech and can testify to that. If your points are nonresponsive on any color, your IC for that color has gone bad. Always replace both if you replace one, even if the other one is still good. Next week it could go bad too.

The ICs are the STK 392-110s, which are not nearly as strong as those upgrades that replaced them, the 180s, tho the 150s are also stronger than the 110s.

It takes taking the conv bd apart, but well worth it. Tell your hubby to be sure not to be stingy on the use of the heat sink compound, and to clean off any dried on old stuff before applying the new.

Mr Bob

Thank you SO much for your efforts in posting! It has been most helpful.

I still think I need a little direction though. I think that the convergence correction driver IC on my 510 may need replacing. The multi-point convergence adjustment is not responsive. I have had a red ghost image at bottom left and top right of the screen for a few weeks now. It looks like the image is curled up on itself like the corner of a page. The multi-point convergence screen reveals the same problem but will not respond to adjusting.

Will this require a professional? My husband has electronics/components background. He thought it might be the guns, but from reading the posts, it doesn't sound like it. We purchased our 510 in 2000, making a considerable investment and thinking we wouldn't have to buy another TV for a long time.

Many thanks for any suggestions!

Erin

Mr Bob

11-08-07, 11:45 AM

I have just heard that the STK 364-160s are even stronger than the 392-180s. Have not tried them yet myself, but trust my source.

If you want to wait on these new ones until you see some reports about them, stick with the 180s I mentioned above, which I have used several times and are tried and true.

Mr Bob

ctvince

11-16-07, 09:57 AM

I'm giving up. My set (Elite 510) has finally broken me. I've battled the common PS resoldering and the IC replacements when they went bad. The thing that is killing me is this high voltage power connection at the base of the blue gun. It was seated improperly at manufacture and I found out about 5 years later (1 month after extended warranty ran out). My saga has been documented earlier in this thread so I won't elaborate, but now I'm getting arcing "loud snapping" occuring within the unit as a result of a poorly seated/sealed boot around the connection. I've fixed this twice already and I have no desire to get back under that TV and try again. Its such a PIA to get access to that area of the set. I know it would cost me about $900 to replace the blue gun, and considering all the problems I've had I don't feel its worth it anymore. The only real downer is after going to the local BB and looking at the LCD sets there, I was fairly unimpressed. I'm hoping it was an issue of their source and am going to check out another higher end store (Tweeter where I bought this Elite 6 years ago) and see if they can enlighten me as to why the sets at BB looked so awful.

If I have no luck I guess I'll be ripping this thing apart again and trying for the 3rd time.

I hate Pioneer!

Mr Bob

11-16-07, 02:22 PM

Just typed a complete answer to you, my laptop ate it up, can't find it anywhere now. God, I hate it when that happens!

Call me and I'll set you up for a consult on how to do it properly. I have never needed to redo it, once I have performed this op. Neither did the factory, on your other 2 guns. There is a way to do it and have it last permanently.

Mr Bob

ctvince

11-16-07, 10:11 PM

Thanks Mr. Bob, I'll give a call hopefully over the weekend. I'm in the process of taking it apart and removing the connector again. I have a lot of cleanup to do unfortunately as the last time I gooped it up trying to stop the arcing. This lasted about 4 months before it somehow started again.

I went to the local high end store today and was once again really dissappointed with their sets. The salesman basically confirmed that the set I have will far outperform an LCD flat panel in SD and won't have the annoying blocking that was prevalent on even the highest end (Sony XBR5) set to my eyes during quick panning of the camera such as with sports.

ctvince

11-16-07, 10:15 PM

Oh, BTW, this is going to sound strange, but I was trying to figure out on the commute home how to make this job easier and was wondering if I would cause any harm by flipping the whole set upside down. The difficulty in my situation has been the awkward approach going in blind with a mirror to try and reset the connector clip from under the set. I'm thinking if I flipped the whole set upside down (carefully of course) that I would have a much easier time getting to that tube rather than trying to locate it with a mirror and do everything in reverse.

ctvince

11-16-07, 10:54 PM

Ditch that last question Mr. Bob. I just realized that I can remove the whole assembly that all the inputs to the TV come from to free up space for access to the Blue.

This should be a lot easier now. Just need to make sure I keep track of all the connections.

ctvince

11-16-07, 11:55 PM

Well, I took the clip out again and I didn't see any obvious area around it that looked like it was getting hit with arcing. I'm hoping this was the cause. I might put that assembly back in and connect it without the blue power for awhile to confirm that this is the cause.

I'm paying for doing a sloppy job last time. The boot around the clip is coated with silicone that won't come off. This in addition to around the hole also has a bunch of dried silicone. I'm thinking I might try another TV repair shop and see if I have any luck locating another cable with the boots and clips. At least now I have excellent access to the whole area.

Mr Bob

11-17-07, 11:00 AM

It doesn't matter how thick the goop gets, as long as there is a good seal against the HV that tries to radiate out from it, to get to whatever ground it can find. It is so powerful that the seal has to be complete. But it doesn't have to be thin. Caulking can be caked on it on the outside of the anode cap, and it won't hurt anything. So you could prolly use what you've got with no problems.

Main thing is to NOT have any of the goop penerating into the hole where you put the metal part of the anode cap, such that it could impede conductance of the HV from the thick wire to the glass of the jug. If there is any dried goop inside there, try to get out any you can.

Ideally there is nothing inside that hole when you put the cap back on, leaving it pure and ready to totally conduct, inside the totally insulated bond. The metal of the wire should totally touch the glass once inside the hole - if there is any space in there and it doesn't, then lightly stuff it with part of a Brillo pad, like you see inside plasma balls, where HV is the key to their ops.

When you put the goop on the anode cap itself - belay that, put it on the glass also, in a thick ring around the hole, PLUS on the anode cap itself - and put the cap back onto the hole, the goop should mush out from the edges, forming a 100% sealed bond. The ring around the hole where you put the goop should not be so thick that when mushed, it will mush INTO the hole. Hole itself needs to stay clean and unencumbered, inside.

Then be sure to let it cure for at least 24 hours before having the set on for more than a few seconds at a time, just for testing. If you try to use your set before then, the HV is very powerful and will actually cause the goop to move out of the way, on its journey to whatever ground point it can find. I have actually watched it move, during testing.

After 24 hours it will have set up to a rubbery solid, and won't be going anywhere.

Mr Bob

PS - if this professional advice does the job, you might think of contributing to my paypal account what you would have been willing to pay for it, over the weekend here. It would be most appreciated.

ctvince

11-17-07, 11:21 AM

PS - if this professional advice does the job, you might think of contributing to my paypal account what you would have been willing to pay for it, over the weekend here. It would be most appreciated.

Much obliged and if this works I most certainly will do so.

Mr. Bob, 2 questions:

I'm a little unclear as to the brillo idea. this stuff won't just fry from the electricity running through it?

Also, last year when you were helping me out with this you had mentioned to use 100% silicon that I can buy at Home Depot. Is this really true? I ended up locating some special RTV for high temp/electrical connections branded RCA from an electriconics shop, but I won't be able to get that till Monday at the earliest and I'm itching to fix this over the weekend.

thanks again

Mr Bob

11-17-07, 11:52 AM

Mr. Bob, 2 questions:

I'm a little unclear as to the brillo idea. this stuff won't just fry from the electricity running through it?

Not talking about the hair-thin stuff like SOS pads, but the loosely wound stuff like you see in plasma balls. Don't use it if you don't need it. The only time it has really come into play was when the metal of the prong had arc'd so badly that half of it was gone.

Otherwise, if the clips of your prong are fully there and have not been eaten away, and as such it makes total contact with the glass within the hole just like it should, you won't have to worry about filling it with anything.

Also, last year when you were helping me out with this you had mentioned to use 100% silicon that I can buy at Home Depot. Is this really true? I ended up locating some special RTV for high temp/electrical connections branded RCA from an electriconics shop, but I won't be able to get that till Monday at the earliest and I'm itching to fix this over the weekend.

thanks again
Anything that sets up with a strong, dry rubbery consistency will work. Caulking compound for bathtubs will work just fine, but has to be allowed to dry thoroughly before using the TV.

Mr Bob

ctvince

11-17-07, 12:57 PM

Gotcha, thanks again. The clip is in good shape and the hole is not too bad. Here are some pics if I can post them properly.

ctvince

11-17-07, 01:01 PM

The hole looks pretty clean as well. I've cleaned it up with some 3M cleaning pad material. I'll head out and get some RTV. I have the set running right now without the blue cable to confirm that no snaps happen. I'm pretty certain this is the culprit, but not 100%. I figure a couple hours without a snap on our now green screen should be enough. I already did a dry fit before I set the TV back on and everything seems good and its nice and easy to access now so I'm hoping for a smooth fix. Then I'll wait the 24hrs till I turn it on again.

Wish me luck and thanks again. I'll be in touch.

ctvince

11-17-07, 04:10 PM

Well, the boot around the clip is siliconed back around the hole. It went pretty smoothly. Tomorrow after supper I'll hook her back up and give it a test.

Mr Bob

11-17-07, 05:00 PM

Well, the boot around the clip is siliconed back around the hole. It went pretty smoothly. Tomorrow after supper I'll hook her back up and give it a test.

You can go ahead and try it out for a few seconds, just don't keep it on for any length of time. A few seconds will confirm that no snaps are happening.

Mr Bob

ctvince

11-17-07, 08:12 PM

I'll probably just wait. Unfortunately the way the set was acting up it would often take several minutes before it would start to arc.

Mr Bob

11-17-07, 09:18 PM

I'll probably just wait. Unfortunately the way the set was acting up it would often take several minutes before it would start to arc.

Probably best, then -

ctvince

11-18-07, 10:13 PM

WooHoo! Well, it appears the fix is so far working. Sometimes it can take up to 2 hours before the snapping would occur, but its been running for about 3 hours now with nothing. I'm keeping my fingers crossed on this one. This thing needs to hang around for at least the next two years.

Thanks again Mr. Bob. Sending you a PM.

ctvince

11-19-07, 10:07 AM

Mr Bob

11-19-07, 10:27 AM

Thanks again for all your help Mr. Bob. I ran the set till 12:30 am last night (about 6 hours total) and no problems. I'm going to send you a little paypal payment for all the help you've given me to keep this set alive (and keep me from going out and spending $2500 or more!) You've been incredibly helpful and I'm hoping to use your services after the new year for some deep cleaning that I've been putting off.

thanks again!

Vince

Thanks, I just got the email that your payment has been received at paypal.

Thanks so much! It's delightful to have someone actually send me something for all the time I spend here!

;)

Mr Bob

srarfi

11-21-07, 12:39 PM

After experiencing flashes, pops and cutoffs... Now nothing so I'm trying to find a local service guy (Rockford, IL 75 miles west of Chicago Ohare Airport)...

I haven't gotten any takers yet but one guy said he would come out next week. I have the ARP3047 and ARP3051 Service Manuals to help the guy but I'm worried the guy won't be up to the challenge and will be afraid to admit it or BS me suggesting he knows what he's doing.

Any Suggestions on how I can tell the MEN FROM THE BOYS and BS from FACT!

Say Mr. Bob are you planning any Road Trips to the Chicago area that I could buy into?

Reference Parts\Service Manuals for Pioneer Pro-510HD
If anyone needs copies of the following, let me know. sra.rockford@gmail.com

ARB1527 Owners MANUAL (PRO610HD/510HD) ($24.74 Pioneer list price... I'll send at my costs)
ARP3047 Service Manual Parts list and schematics S/M (MAIN-EXP VIEWS/SCHEM) $40.37 Hvae this as a 19MB PDF File free for the asking or I'll burn a CD and ship at actual costs
ARP3051 Service Manaual (MAIN-ADJ/TECH INFO) ($17.49 Pioneer list price... I'll send at my costs)
ARP3086 Service Manual S/M(NEW)PRO710HD/610HD/510HD ($31.15 Pioneer list price... I'll send at my costs)

Also calling Pioneer Cust Service will get you a free replacement on Power Board as they issued me a case number with no argument... I think they arrange service call but I may have to pay for Labor... Not sure yet as I just called today.... Hopefully whomever they come up with will know what they are doing

Mr Bob

11-22-07, 02:16 AM

Say Mr. Bob are you planning any Road Trips to the Chicago area that I could buy into?[/B]

Nothing is in the hopper at present, but get a few fellow afficianados together and I'll be glad to come out. Was just out to Chicago a few months ago on a primarily Pioneer Elite cal/repair tour, sorry I missed you!

Mr Bob

Hoosblues

11-26-07, 08:59 AM

Mr Bob

11-26-07, 12:05 PM

Also calling Pioneer Cust Service will get you a free replacement on Power Board as they issued me a case number with no argument... I think they arrange service call but I may have to pay for Labor... Not sure yet as I just called today.... Hopefully whomever they come up with will know what they are doing

As I have mentioned earlier in this thread, resoldering the PS board will maintain the critical voltage regulation that is used downline on precision circuits like the convergence system.

A new board may not preserve any of this, as those voltages will have new and possibly slightly different - and possibly highly different - regulation to them.

Regulation only has to fall within certain parameters. Everything downline from that is set up depending on where the regulation originates on the PS board.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

11-26-07, 12:11 PM

Man, I thought this was fixed.... a ham radio buddy of mine carefully went over the whole PS board and re-soldered everything. My Pro 510 worked perfectly for about 4 weeks after re-installing the PS board....but then the dreaded pop and cutoff happened over Thanksgiving. It will now run for only 30 minutes or so before cutting off again and I have disconnected the set. I am seriously considering giving this set to someone with more patience than me.... What would be my next step if I try to revive the set?

Thanks

For God's sake, don't give it away! Do you know how precious CRT tech has come to be, now? In another thread, someone just said, "Why can't consumers realize that CRT tech is a mature technology, not an obsolete one?"

At least you turned it off and powered it down promptly, which many out there do NOT! Risking further damage. You turned it off and disconnected it until fixed, which is ALWAYS the first step.

I am available for phone consultation - or to be flown in - if you want to get to the bottom of this.

Mr Bob

gaz

11-27-07, 12:05 PM

Mr Bob

11-27-07, 02:49 PM

Mr. Bob:
I have been reading this thread for some time now. I recently had the same problem with my 710 Pro. I tried to contact repairmen in this area to come look at the problem with no luck. In my situation, a power board replacement would be my only solution because 1) no repairman would take the time to solder the board and 2) if I found someone, I doubt they would do a decent job. It looks like I will have to get rid of the set as much as I love it. It's a shame that the new rear projection sets are a piece of junk.
BTW, how much would a new power board replacement cost? And, would it fix the problem?:(

SEND THE BOARD TO ME. I will resolder it for you. One guy in Canada is a really happy camper right now because of this option -

I am assuming by "same problem" - which you didn't specify, there have been lots of problems talked about on this thread - you mean the intermittent flickering/blue flash/shutdown problem, and not simply a massive shutdown of your set?

Mr Bob

Hoosblues

11-27-07, 05:37 PM

For God's sake, don't give it away! Do you know how precious CRT tech has come to be, now? In another thread, someone just said, "Why can't consumers realize that CRT tech is a mature technology, not an obsolete one?"

At least you turned it off and powered it down promptly, which many out there do NOT! Risking further damage. You turned it off and disconnected it until fixed, which is ALWAYS the first step.

I am available for phone consultation - or to be flown in - if you want to get to the bottom of this.

Mr Bob

After 6+ years, I do not want to put a ton of money into this TV. I had it ISF'd a couple of years ago and it has been great until this issue popped up (no pun intended) I would be willing to make an effort if I could get things working quickly before the holidays. My wife is already worried about missing her favorite holiday movies, and family is coming....Based on your experience, do you think we could figure out the issue via email/phone quickly?

srarfi

11-27-07, 06:59 PM

As I have mentioned earlier in this thread, resoldering the PS board will maintain the critical voltage regulation that is used downline on precision circuits like the convergence system.

A new board may not preserve any of this, as those voltages will have new and possibly slightly different - and possibly highly different - regulation to them.

Regulation only has to fall within certain parameters. Everything downline from that is set up depending on where the regulation originates on the PS board.

Mr Bob
Thanks for taking my phone call and as we discussed I'll call you in a couple hours for that troubleshooting phone\service call. Just too bad I was a dumba-- and didn't turn the TV off and leave it off... God knows what shape it is in now.

I appreciate the quote on resoldering as that looks to be the preferred route over just replacing the board, i.e. then you have to re-set up "stuff" (sorry for the high tech term)...

I guess I'm curious how difficult the soldering job is.... I'm sure you would prefer that I send it to you but considering the down time, is the local TV Repairman able to perform the job adequately or is your experience\expertise a significant advantage?

Based upon the consult hourly charge, the resoldering comes out to about 3.25 hours of labor... That's alot of soldering time. Now I'm not suggesting your charge is good or bad just trying to quantify it for comparison purposes. This gives others in this thread something to go on when talking to other repair guys.... The point being if someone is quoted an hours worth of work to resolder the board and you are suggesting 3+ hours then someone's must not be talking about the same level\quality of work.

Let's see how our troubleshooting session goes and I'll be sure to supply an unbiased update from Rockford, IL... based upon the comments about your work and the "free" advice you've offered.... I'm game to kick in to your paypal account and give you a return on your efforts.

I also would like to keep my Pioneer 510 if I can get it back to it's high performance levels... But at some point I have to pull the plug because there's no one to service the set in my area... Sorry I'm a working man and can't keep ponying up to call San Francisco to have someone "help me land the plane"... It's only great technology when it works.

11\28 update Decided to wait on phone troubleshooting call as I have two more manuals I hope to get that will make me more informed\prepared. Anyone wants copies, let me know I'll send them at my costs.
From above post
ARB1527 Owners MANUAL (PRO610HD/510HD) ($24.74 Pioneer list price... I'll send at my costs)
ARP3047 Service Manual Parts list and schematics S/M (MAIN-EXP VIEWS/SCHEM) $40.37 Hvae this as a 19MB PDF File free for the asking or I'll burn a CD and ship at actual costs
ARP3051 Service Manaual (MAIN-ADJ/TECH INFO) ($17.49 Pioneer list price... I'll send at my costs)
ARP3086 Service Manual S/M(NEW)PRO710HD/610HD/510HD ($31.15 Pioneer list price... I'll send at my costs)

gaz

11-27-07, 10:36 PM

SEND THE BOARD TO ME. I will resolder it for you. One guy in Canada is a really happy camper right now because of this option -

I am assuming by "same problem" - which you didn't specify, there have been lots of problems talked about on this thread - you mean the intermittent flickering/blue flash/shutdown problem, and not simply a massive shutdown of your set?

Mr Bob

That's the problem I have. What do you mean by massive shut down? I did lose my picture and sound but it came back on and looked and sounded fine. It happened twice. I have discontinued using the set for fear of causing damage to the set. How difficult is it for a layman such as myself to remove the power board. I did read on the thread that it was the vertical board attached to the power cord. However I don't know how it is attached (with screws?). If I were to send you the board for soldering, when could you do it and what length of time are we talking about? I don't want to go through New Year's without a big screen TV. Also what would be a rough estimate of the cost to solder the power board?

srarfi

11-28-07, 10:09 AM

Gaz, Bob was very helpful\cooperative when I called him and I recommend you do the same. Within reason, he seems to be one of the few exceptions of people who will go out of their way to help without first sticking a hand out asking to be paid... The rates he quoted me aren't out of line on the resoldering job and I'm also looking at pulling the board myself and shipping it to Bob...

Waiting to also hear what Pioneer gets back to me with as I have a case number ongoing... Just closest factory authorized rep is 40-50 miles away. Plus Bob said putting in a new board brings into play other potential problems\adjustments

I'm looking at getting a free board from Pioneer but first trying to get my current board resoldered (by Bob or someone local)... My strategy is to pay towards Bob's goodwill efforts with an hour service call (via phone)... Then make the decision on who re-solders the board. If it's diffiuclt work or requires actual real skill\experience then I'll pay Bob to do it otherwise I'll do it local so I have less down time and maybe save some money with Rockford, IL rates versus San Francisco, CA rates.

Call Bob... He's a good guy in my estimation. Denny Wallace Rockford, IL

Mr Bob

11-28-07, 11:56 AM

Phone consultation is a very passive process, and as such those fees are far lower than my repair fees, which are a very hands-on, active process. No big leap there...

I charge $85/hr for phone consultation, which is an absolutely screamin' deal, for what you get in return. I can impart LOADS of highly field tested and burned-in experience in just a few minutes.

My fee for resoldering the board is $275, you pay the shipping both ways. Bubble-wrapped with the big bubbles is best.

I charge travel plus $350 for the same thing if appearing on your doorstep, because I have to take lots of stuff apart on your set at that point, and put it back together later, in addition to the soldering itself. In resoldering a board that has been sent to me, you have done all that and you also put the board back in, plus buttoning up the set again, saving me all that work. So the fees for just resoldering a board that has been sent to me are less than if I do the entire operation myself, stem to stern. The actual soldering job takes between and hour and a half and 2 hours, with setup and breakdown time, plus running your board back to the shippers...

The board in question here still needs the resoldering job, but since the owner did not SHUT IT DOWN AND GET IT FIXED AT FIRST SIGN OF A PROBLEM - or at the very least the second or third time he saw a problem, if not immediately - who knows how far the domino effect has gone now? NOW the set won't stay on at all, even long enough to deliver a picture. It is without exception in my experience that if there turns out to be a problem with the deflection board, there was already a problem with the PS board noticed, but not acted upon.

You guys seem to think these intermittent problems will someday just go away again, if you just keep on using the set until they do.

THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS.

Cold solder joint problems are progressive problems, and don't get any better on their own. They are like needed dental work, which is also a very progressive problem, that only gets worse over time. The longer you take before acting on the problem, the worse the problem gets, till eventually your set may sustain significant damage, that wouldn't have happened if you had just hopped on it immediately. Ever lost a tooth rather than just getting a root canal, or suffered a root canal instead of just a filling, all because you didn't hop on something immediately, that was going on in your mouth?

DON'T DALLY. If your set starts exhibiting problems like have been reported here, SHUT IT DOWN. Right then and there. Don't let it go on again for any length of time, or the situation could blow up in your face, like it has done here.

I have already said all of this over and over again here on this thread. Not everybody wants to man the learning curve of starting at the beginning of this thread like I did, and reading every page. Can't blame ya.

So I'm saying it again, for anyone who missed it:

IF YOUR SET STARTS HAVING PROBLEMS, SHUT IT DOWN. Esp. if you see that the problems start happening with more and more regularity, if you DON'T shut it down.

If you do, then when it is time to send me your board, I will instruct you to turn your set on one last time before you go in, to get the board out. If your set comes on like normal and you see a regular pic, then I will say to shut it down completely now, before it has a chance to warm up, disco it from the wall power, and don't touch it again until you get it back from me.

Luckily enough cold solder joints are thermals - they react badly once the set has had a chance to warm up. If you just turn it on long enough to get a picture, it won't have had a chance to warm up, and chances are you'll be OK.

Once the set is unplugged from the wall, the unplugging of the wiring on the PS board should be done BEFORE you remove any screws to remove the board, so you can have something to pull on. The unit should be TOTALLY unplugged from the 120v wall plate. It's OK to leave all your inputs connected up, they don't need to get unplugged.

If you leave the bundling where it is inside the set that goes to the PS board, you won't be able to re-plug anything in there wrong, when you get the board back. But EVERY plug that is dangling when you remove the board MUST be put back in place before you plug the unit in to the wall again. As Leno says about the Enquirer, (they) "Check, doublecheck and then recheck again (their sources...)" that all the plug-ins that were formerly removed from their jacks are back, firmly plugged in again. Even one left dangling and not plugged in again could cause significant damage to your set, once turned on again.

The primary difference between how good repair techs handle these things is that repair techs KNOW what could happen if they are not careful, and so stay COMPLETELY careful. We are not cowboys here, flailing away indiscriminantly and experimenting with your multi-thousand dollar units. Don't you be, either. We are TOTALLY careful with your stuff.

If you want to be like us, the main thing you can do for yourself is BE CAREFUL in there. Don't get distracted and leave something dangling. It's actually rather hard to do that, as nothing in there is super small...

Just note if the phone rings while you are doing any of this - what is your reaction? Do you drop everything and run to get it? If so you should allow a tech to do the removal and reinstallation. If you can concentrate totally on what you're doing, there should be no problem with sending me the board and having your set back and up and running again, promptly.

I usually have a 2 day turn around on resoldering your boards. If you need it back quickly, include a UPS call tag with it and I'll run it down to the local UPS place myself. Or FedEx, they are not far away either.

Send me your board, and preserve your critical power regulation voltages, that everything downline is set from. A lot may need to be retweaked, if you simply buy a new board and stick it in. Many of you live in areas that have no supertweakers anywhere close by, and not everyone reading this thread is going to spring for flying me in, to do it.

Mr Bob

gaz

11-30-07, 11:55 PM

I had a tv repairman over yesterday to repair the blue flash on my tv. He spent about 5 hours working on the set. He resoldered the low power board, the connections and went over the other boards as well. The set worked great for a day, but tonight it went off. When I turned the set back on, the set appeared to be trying to recalibrate itself. Initially there were three lines in red across the screen. I was unable to change channels, etc. while it was in this condition. I pushed several buttons on the remote but was unable to get rid of the red writing but blue writing replaced it on the screen. In this mode, I was able to get the tv to respond to my remote which I couldn't do initially. However, the blue writing remained on the screen. The picture itself looked fantastic. Any ideas out there what the problem could be?:confused:

Mr Bob

12-01-07, 02:33 PM

However, the blue writing remained on the screen. The picture itself looked fantastic. Any ideas out there what the problem could be?:confused:

Not quite sure what you mean by that statement. What blue writing are you talking about?

What you describe is NOT good. It should work just like it did when it came out of box when new.

The more a tech does in there, the more chances there are to screw something up inside. If the rest of the boards were fine, he shoulda left them alone. That's what I woulda done - limit my scope to what was broken, and not mess with the tried and true.

Whenever some other tech has been in there, mucking with the factory condition it arrived at your house in, all bets are off as far as free advice on this thread. Nothing is then readily predictable anymore. Who knows what he did in there, for 5 hours? I hope he stands behind his work. I have never had a callback on my repair work, on the work I do on the 510/610/710 series, even the ones I did back East earlier this year.

The only exception about callbacks was when Pioneer sent me a defective deflection board with intermittent problems which did not show up on my first go round, and I had to take a new board over and send the defective one back. I never saw any problems on the set with the defective board in there, they were intermittent problems and reported by the owner only after I had left the first time, being very spurious and occasional. Pioneer overnighted me a good replacement board and credited me the bad board back in full. I had him up and running again within 2 days.

Won't say it can't be fixed now, but no way I can give you any ready advice without showing up on your doorstep, now. Certainly can't just resolder your board now, and still trust your set to work properly upon sending it back to you. Half a dozen things could need to be corrected from this guy's work now, in your set's circuitry inside.

Mr Bob

gaz

12-01-07, 04:09 PM

Not quite sure what you mean by that statement. What blue writing are you talking about?

....
Whenever some other tech has been in there, mucking with the factory condition it arrived at your house in, all bets are off as far as free advice on this thread. Nothing is then readily predictable anymore. Who knows what he did in there, for 5 hours? I hope he stands behind his work. I have never had a callback on my repair work, on the work I do on the 510/610/710 series, even the.....

........and still trust your set to work properly upon sending it back to you. Half a dozen things could need to be corrected from this guy's work now, in your set's circuitry inside.

Mr Bob

Perhaps I should have been clearer in explaining what the technician did or did not do. He resoldered portions of the low power board, checked connections and looked for obvious problems on the other boards. He did NOT resolder anything or make any changes on the other boards. Unfortunately, you're across the country so it's unlikely that I will have you over to take care of the problem. I have to do what's feasible in my situation. If the set goes bad and beyond repair then I'll trash it and buy something to replace it.

srarfi

12-02-07, 08:38 PM

srarfi

12-02-07, 08:42 PM

Bob I attached the picture of my screen before the picture came back

Mr Bob

12-03-07, 01:28 PM

Bob, I didn't want to discuss the prices you quoted me but now that you "volunteered" same I believe I can comment not without letting the cat out of the bag.

If the $275 plus shipping is a long term fix to my TV then it's a very good deal and within the parameters I had in mind that I would spend before junking the unit... (Yes I know you are big fan of the Pioneer Pro technology but if it doesn't work then what real good is it?)

Now the $85 for the brief walk through on removing the Power board and "assessing" what was going on really didn't accomplish too much. I got lucky that the TV picture came on by pure chance so didn't really get much out of this $85 payment... about 20 minutes.

Oh well, at least I have a decent chance for the TV to get up and running again. I recognize and respect the fact your skills\experience offered for hire come from several years of work and even advance training but the pay day of $275 +$85 is not to bad of a part-time job if you get very many people to pony up the money in phone consultations or a couple hours of soldering. However as I said, the money is well worth it assuming things work

As far as others taking on the challenge... Does look to me to be pretty easy to remove the board without electrocuting me or messing up an expensive TV. Bob's right that once you get the Power Supply Board out a careful bubble wrapping job will easily protect it. (fyi, I recommmend a box within a box with the bubble wrap. I've worked at UPS and the boxes get stepped on especially during this crazy time at Christmas.

I'll send a short term update when I get the Board back from Bob and after 90 days or so. If anyone else has advice or comments please be sure to let me know.

Bob, thank you for your efforts. Denny Wallace, Rockford, IL

I will be glad to refund half of the $85 if you wish, and you can have 10 minutes of additional calibration phone consultation at any time. Or you can call back and let me guide you thru some additional stuff you can do with your unit once it's up and running again, with the remaining half hour of unused phone consultation time. I have a veritable treasure trove of technical information I can dip into at any time, for making your viewing experience more exciting.

I thought it would take longer than half an hour, with the scenario that had been presented to me. As you said, we both got caught off guard when the thing suddenly worked again, on us. At which time I said "Shut it down. NOW!" Before it would have a chance to warm up.

The jobs coming in are very spurious and occasional - no way I'd be able to make my mortgage payment on them, much less eat, with the expenses just living presents me with every month! Even go out to the movies, if it has to go to living expenses first.

I currently have 2 in the hopper - yours and one other, that's being sent also. I would only hope that it would become more frequent!

Such things as this are the ONLY way I get any form of reimbursement for spending the hours per day I spend, manning this thread and others, both here and at other forums. If you've read all the pages in this thread, as you said you had, check out my number of posts on just this forum, then start counting up the hours I have spent on writing what I have written here, with all the corrections and rewrites it has taken to do it, and still maintain the perfectionism my reputation is built on. There is NO pay for being here, doing that. If you think AVS Forum has a pay scale for that, think again! It is ALL volunteer, here, on these boards.

Multiply that with the other threads here that I participate in - I am sure you could do a search here for that - plus at other sites I man a presence on, like www.hometheaterspot.com.

At which point I hope that you will see that your job and the one other being sent to me that's in the hopper, are only a drop in the bucket compared to the time I have given away free, just here on THIS thread, in terms of hourly earnings I coulda made by spending that time elsewhere, where they pay people for what they do. Managing a McDonalds pays more than what I make being here on this forum, which is zero. Even WORKING at a McDonalds pays more! And my advice has been professional grade at all times, which MOST of the people who read it use to their own advantage privately, without a second thought about taking care of me in return.

But I will keep on doing so, even tho the $ returns so far have been pretty paltry when all is said and done, because I believe in this medium and in how dang GOOD these Pioneers are!

And because I enjoy doing what I do, to no end.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

12-03-07, 01:49 PM

Bob I attached the picture of my screen before the picture came back

Those look like retrace lines, which have been known to be caused by the PS bad soldering, and cured by the resoldering.

Again, if the set is working properly when you shut it down and send me the board, chances are I will be able to pull your fat out of the fire.

I have been 100% successful so far.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

12-03-07, 01:53 PM

There's no reason your set should not look virtually as good as these pix when I am thru with it, if you give me free reign. I will be glad to take pix on location of repair and calibration jobs I have completed, now that I know how to send photos up.

Hitting F11 lets you reduce what's on your monitor, so you can see more of the pix.

Be sure the brightness of your monitor is set correctly, to make the blacks clamp to black properly.

All connections you will see on my screenshots for now are via component, just like yours can be on your Elites, even tho RGB is available to your sets, while it is not to mine. At the present time I don't even own an HDMI cable, much less use one.

Mr Bob

Morgan Fairchild's lips, Fashion House, Ultra channel (VOOM), paused on my Dish DVR -

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/8647/111707samples6frommit73st2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Bruce Wayne in mountains with Liam and chemicals, HD DVD

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4958/111707samples8afrommit7tn4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/2209/111707samples8frommit73zv1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Mr Bob

12-03-07, 02:05 PM

Here's my webpage cover, the original, shot on 35mm film and freezeframed on my 65" Panasonic with 7" guns. It was shot too close, which gave excellent detail but got the fleshtones different colors out at the edges from the middle, and was overexposed because I didn't know any better at the time, in how to set up my cam.

This kind of detail is what you Pioneer owners have every reason to be able to expect out of your sets, once fully cleaned and calibrated. And of course yours will have the fleshtones excellent all over the screen, and the pic won't be overexposed!

It is from 7 years ago, you can see the readouts of the equipment I had on top of my set back then -

This was shot at 6'. I sit 8' back from my 65" Panny and am in heaven. I would have you sitting the same distance back from your 710s, and 6' back from your 510s, 7' back from your 610s.

Scope out how much bigger a picture you'd get to enjoy at those distances, from the distances you are now perhaps viewing at -

Mr Bob

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/2055/imageperfectioncomcsilgyh1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Mr Bob

12-03-07, 02:14 PM

Again from Fashion House, from my Dish DVR onto my Mit 73" -

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8625/111707samples8frommit73zr1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Mr Bob

12-03-07, 05:36 PM

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4131/111707samples7frommit73rq2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2278/111707samples7frommit73ik8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

markhio

12-03-07, 07:32 PM

I can't tell you how much I appreciate this thread, especially Mr. Bob and his time and energy. I personally don't know how he maintains his patience with the same questions over and over. (Read the thread, please before asking the same question asked 100 times before). My Pro610 had all of the symptoms, and I didn't turn the thing off the minute the blue flash started. Finally got the total black, with no power on.

I read the whole thread, pulled the ps board (thanks for all the useful photos and other information). Got a soldering iron (a dual wattage iron from Radio Shack, not too expensive) and solder and a magnifying visor (highly recommend) and went to work. I touched up every soldered joint (limited soldering experience) and replaced the board. (also, get some de-solder braid just in case, I had to use it 2-3 times when I messed up.)

I also had the two blown fuses Mr. Bob talked about. I thought I might have to replace the convergence chips, but decided to turn it on and see what happened. Eureka, I got a picture and no flashes. Had to adjust the convergence per the owners manual, but now it all looks great. Did this the weekend before Thanksgiving and have not had a problem since. And my wife thinks I'm a genius.

While I am not a technician, I have done some soldering. The soldering job was not difficult, just tedious. Google "How to solder" and read up on how to do it. Then just practice until you feel comfortable with the techniques required. I recommend practicing on an old board before and you will begin to get a feel for how to do a good job and be able to tell when you have done a bad one. Once you have done it, carefully inspect your own work and touch up any potential trouble spots. Also, take video or photos as you go, they will answer a lot of questions when you put it back together. Be smart and think through every step, don't rush.

Personal opinion; 1. Mr. Bob's prices are not at all out of line, especially considering where he lives and his willingness to travel. 2. He has the patience of Job (biblical reference here, look it up) to keep answering the same questions over and over. 3. He gives a lot of free advice on this forum, the man as a right to get paid something for the years he has spent gaining this knowledge. If you want his services, man up and pull out the checkbook. It will almost certainly be cheaper than paying someone in your area to get the same expertise he already has and has shared so freely. I know I saved a bundle, and have my set back for less than $100. 4. Given all he has written as been spot on, and I have not seen a single complaint on this thread, you can probably trust him.

Mr. Bob, will send my email address via your web site. If you find your way out to Oklahoma, or know of several people that want to split your non-recurring expenses, let me know. I sure would like to see what other magic you can perform on my set. Thanks for all your help.
One happy camper

Mr Bob

12-03-07, 09:13 PM

Thank ye -

:o

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

12-05-07, 09:50 AM

Mr. Bob, will send my email address via your web site. If you find your way out to Oklahoma, or know of several people that want to split your non-recurring expenses, let me know. I sure would like to see what other magic you can perform on my set. Thanks for all your help.
One happy camper

Have you cleaned your optics? If not you're in for a brand new treat, esp. if you do your deeper optics as well. Your picture will lose its present bleariness, and will gleam and glisten again, like new. Your blacks will be transparent again, delivering clarity and depth to your images.

Send me your phone number and city/state/general area, and I will enter you in my owner's book, flagged for your area in Oklahoma.

Anyone who wants to have me contact them if I am going to be nearby, HAS to send me their contact info, including phone numbers. If you're not serious enough to do that, then chances are you won't be contacted, as I won't know to take you seriously, and you'll slip thru the cracks, as my life gets VERY busy sometimes, esp. with a calibration tour on the horizon...

Please do NOT pm me with this info. My pm box is going critical again, and I will have to spend an hour or 2 soon to preen it down again.

Send me that info via my regular email address, given cryptically - but not overly so - in my sig, down below here.

Mr Bob

Dead 510

12-06-07, 12:44 AM

Mr Bob

12-06-07, 06:01 AM

Unfortunately I'm back...

A few months back my 510 shut itself down, and resoldering the entire power supply board did the trick. Now I have a convergence problem. When first turning the set on after many hours off, there will be a convergence problem, mainly on the left and right vertical lines in the convergence adjust menu. The horizontal lines are ok. If I put the TV in Cinema mode the picture looks (mostly) ok. In Full mode, if I tediously adjust the convergence (multipoint), then the next time the TV is turned off and on (overnight) the convergence is out again.

Help (again)!

-Dave

Your ICs have prolly given out. Happens.

If you can adjust it back in place with user convergence, however, perhaps it only needs to be redone in sm. But it should not undo itself overnight, just by being turned off...Would prolly do the same thing in sm, unfortunately...

I would replace both ICs and redo everything. I'll bet it would stick then.

Use the STK 392-180s, or the 150s if you can't find 180s. I've heard of the 364-160s being even better, but have not tried them yet. Still have a number of 180s in stock.

DON'T use the originals for replacements, the 110s, as they are a very old design now and have been massively upgraded over the years, with the new ones I just listed.

Mr Bob

Eholm

12-09-07, 11:33 AM

I have been monitoring this thread for well over two years now. As an owner 610 I have suffered through 3 of the major problems described in this thread. I have also recovered from all three.

The first problem that led me to this thread was the infamous blue flash issue. Like many, I waited until the problem escalated to a point where the set would pop and shutdown before I attempted to fix it. Well, I did resolder the board and that did resolve the blue flash problem, but other issues persisted.

The set continued to pop and shutdown and I continued to resolder other parts of the PS board hoping to find the right cold solder joint. During this period, occasionally the set would shutdown and when I turned it back on it would display just a multi-colored blur on the screen. Finally, one day the set made a very loud pop and shut down, it would not turn on again. Fuses had blown on the PS board and red leds on the PS board and convergence assembly were glowing. After refering to this thread, I concluded that my convergence ICs had blown. I replaced my convergence ICs as described in previous posts. After a weekend spent recalibrating the geometry and convergence, the picture was restored to a the one that I fell in love with 7 years ago. But, much to my chagrin, the set continued to shutdown.

I continued attempting to resolder the PS board, reviewed my handywork on the convergence ICs, tried blowing cool air on the PS board, etc. After several months, I began to notice a pattern. The set would shutdown when high contrast, or bright content was displayed. I found I could control the frequency of the shutdowns by reducing the contrast in the picture setup menu. I tolerated this for almost a year.

Well, one day I found myself wandering around the local Best Buy and in the Magnolia home theater section they had several 58" 1080p Plasma displays showing a Redskins game (1080i content). Two thoughts crossed my mind at that point. First, it sure would be nice to have a new tv that did not inexplicably shutdown on occasion. Second, when it works, my old pioneer picture is just as good as these!

Well after thinking about my options, it occured to me that maybe I had fixed the PS board. What else controls brightness and contrast in the set? Well according to the Service Manual, the brightness and contrast need to be recalibrated when the Deflection Assembly board is replaced. Perhaps the deflection assembly was the source of my problem? I replaced the board about a month ago and have not had any issues with the TV since.

All said, I have spent approximately $500 in parts and 40 hours researching and fixing the problem(s). Considering that a comparable picture to my current setup costs 10 times that, I think I have made a good decision, and hope others don't give up.

These sets can be fixed and restored to their legendary performance!

-Eric

Mr Bob

12-09-07, 12:13 PM

I have been monitoring this thread for well over two years now. As an owner 610 I have suffered through 3 of the major problems described in this thread. I have also recovered from all three.

...

These sets can be fixed and restored to their legendary performance!

-Eric

I'll bet you didn't resolder EVERY conn on that PS board except for the test points and heat sinks, like I have stated many times here needs to be done.

This brings up a good question - perhaps your conv ICs were taken out by the bad conn's on the PS board? I know that every time a deflection board has gone out, it has been preceeded by problems on the PS board, which also had to be resoldered.

It had not occurred to me, but perhaps letting the PS board continue to function while still being intermittent in its ops not only causes problems in the defl bd but also in the conv bd! Among other things there are 2 regulators on the PS board, which control the plus and minus voltages that go to both of the conv ICs. I am sure unregulated voltages from just one of the 2 regulators malfunctioning, could ruin those ICs.

Who knows what other problems running your set while hurt may cause?

Another great reason NOT to let it get that far!

So glad you have been able to rescue your set! Now clean the optics, both regular and deeper, and have your set look like new.

Then consider getting it calibrated, and having it look BETTER than new.

;)

Mr Bob

caryrae

12-09-07, 11:16 PM

Hi I bought an Elite Pro-510HD about 7 months ago for $500 and it has worked fine so far. I keep hearing about cleaning the optics and since I bought it used I don't know if or how long it's been since the optics have been cleaned. Is this something I can do myself pretty easily and if so is there somewhere that has instructions on how to do it.

Thanks
Cary

DanClark

12-09-07, 11:48 PM

gaz

12-10-07, 01:12 AM

.......... I briefly brought up the service menu on my set (Factory Mode 1) to see what it looked like and I saw this:

ADJUSTMENT RANGE
PD5562 5
PD5563 B
PD5564 B

COLOR, BASS CNT

Not sure where to go from here. In the WHITE BALANCE ADJUSTMENT section of the service manual, I see promising things like the ability to adjust:
Cheers!
Dan

I recently resoldered my power board. Now, I get get the same service menu with the a similar message that you described above (i.e, factory mode) when I turn the TV off and back on after it has been running for awhile. I can only get the message to disappear by leaving the TV off a few minutes. Anyone have any idea how to stop this message from appearing?:confused:

Mr Bob

12-10-07, 03:27 AM

I cleaned my optics today. Given that my Pro HD510 is about 9 years old, or close to it, there really wasn't much dust on the lenses. I went ahead and cleaned them anyway with Sprayway, since I'd already gone to the trouble of taking the front off.

My main problem is there is too much Green in my picture. I have to compensate by shifting the Tint way over, but that really doesn't completely take care of the problem. What I think I really need to do is go in the Service Menu and either cut the Green or boost the Red and Blue.

I have the service manual but it's still a bit cryptic. I briefly brought up the service menu on my set (Factory Mode 1) to see what it looked like and I saw this:

ADJUSTMENT RANGE
PD5562 5
PD5563 B
PD5564 B

COLOR, BASS CNT

Not sure where to go from here. In the WHITE BALANCE ADJUSTMENT section of the service manual, I see promising things like the ability to adjust:

DRV-R, DRV-B, CUT-R, CUT-G, CUT-B

Given that I want to dial back the Green, or dial up the Red and Blue, what's my best course of action? How do I get to the screen that has the adjustments? I was hesitant to just start pushing buttons on my remote as I don't want to make things worse.

Also, which mode should the set be in when I'm doing this if I want the change to be global? Should I be feeding it a 480i signal over composite in order to do general adjustments?

Thanks for any info you guys might have. I'm almost ready to have the set hauled away, but I thought I would see if I can get another few months (or years) out of it...at least until I can see what is being announced at CES 2008.

Cheers!
Dan

Your set is good for several more years, at the very least. I have brought back many whose pix were not just green, but way dark as well. Their owners typically tell me they look better than they ever have, after one of my calibrations.

The entire color paradigm for your set is based on the S video's settings. All other settings are based on them, so you have to start there.

If all scanrates have too much green, tho, perhaps your best bet is to turn down the green Screen trimpot instead, just a tiny bit. Hard to get it wrong, it is the one in the middle.

It is what has drifted, after all. The service menu doesn't drift.

Pioneers require a master's degree in do-it-yourselferism, BTW, and very few take the time for THAT learning curve. I am available if you don't want to take any chances.

BTW, if you didn't see much dust on your lenses after it's not having EVER been cleaned before, you're not looking correctly. You take a very strong flashlight and shine it from the side onto your lenses, while viewing them from the front of the TV, straight across from the lenses themselves. Flashlight almost straight across also, hitting at a very steep angle to the lenses themselves.

Of course it's too late for that now. If you just mildly dragged a dry microfiber cloth over them, tho, most of the dirt is still there. The dirt - the gritty particulates - on those lenses have to be very carefully suspended in liquid before being moved, or they could permanently scratch the surfaces involved. That's why no dry method will work in this situation.

Was there a difference between before and after, with before being bleary and after being bright and shiny? If not, you may not have cleaned the surfaces correctly.

EVERY 510 I have encountered for the last 3 years has needed optics cleaning desperately and as an imperative, with virtually all needing the deeper optics as well. I wager that if you didn't find much dust on those lenses, then you must have an ionizer outside your set, attracting the incoming dust to the outside of the set rather than allowing it to get in.

Or just not used it very much.

Mr Bob

DanClark

12-10-07, 11:19 AM

Thanks Bob,

I think I may take your advice and try adjusting the green trimpot a little. The problem is, with the screen off, it will be hard to see what effect it is having. I'll have to adjust it, put the screen on, evaluate and repeat. Still, it sounds like my best option, and it keeps me out of the service menu.

Regarding the dust on the lenses, I could clearly see a thin layer of dust when I shined the flash light edge-on to the lenses. After cleaning them Sprayway glass cleaner and a cloth, there was no longer visible dust on the lens when shining the flashlight in the same manner.

It probably did have a slight impact on the picture, but I think the green problem I have kind of overshadows things right now. If I can get that taken care of, I think I will be quite a bit happier with the picture, though it will still be nowhere near ISFBob quality. At least I will be okay living with it for a while longer.

Thanks again!

Cheers
Dan

Mr Bob

12-10-07, 01:03 PM

Thanks Bob,

I think I may take your advice and try adjusting the green trimpot a little. The problem is, with the screen off, it will be hard to see what effect it is having. I'll have to adjust it, put the screen on, evaluate and repeat. Still, it sounds like my best option, and it keeps me out of the service menu.

Thanks again!

Cheers
Dan

You don't have to remove the screen to do the Screen trimpot adjustment - nay, you HAVE to have it on there, to do so correctly.

The focus block is down below the screen. You remove that cover plate that gets you in down below, at the front of the machine behind the speaker grill. Don't even think about going into the back of the TV.

To see which trimpot is which, again shine your flashlight from the side, to see the raised lettering on the block itself. You'll see SCREEN and FOCUS, and the 3 colors, R G and B.

DO NOT GET DISTRACTED AND MIX UP THE TRIMPOTS. You only need ONE, the G SCREEN trimpot. Mess with the others in the Screen section and you'll wind up needing a complete ISF calibration. It's the CENTER one in the Screen section of 3.

Do this with dark material on the screen, preferably b/w, which you can get by disco'ing the Pb and Pr and leaving just Y HU'd, at your component IPs. Or OPs of your source, which don't entail getting behind your set.

Mr Bob

DanClark

12-10-07, 01:22 PM

Mr Bob

12-10-07, 02:05 PM

Ahh...I see now. That makes a lot of sense. Do I just remove the speaker grill by pulling out with steady pressure from both sides or do I need to unscrew something first? The service manual doesn't say. Thanks again for the all the tips you have provided, Bob! I'm going to try adjusting the green trimpot tonight when I am home from work.

Cheers
Dan

The speaker grill takes an act of congress to get off, but WILL come off if you pull hard enough. It has VERY strong clips on it.

Once that's off, you will need to remove some Philips screws to get that half inch thick black wood cover plate off, and then you'll prolly have to pry it off as well, as it sticks like glue, even tho it's only held on by screws.

You will see the focus block inside, suspended in midair.

Be very GINGERLY about turning the green trimpot, and mark its position first, before turning it. It will only need a slight bit of turning, just a hint of it, it is VERY sensitive in there -

If you stick to the middle trimpot, bottom line, the worst you will do if you get it wrong is to change the position of the green Focus trimpot.

DO NOT change the position of ANYTHING else on that block, and preferably ONLY the green SCREEN trimpot. Only 1 of the six is to be even touched!

I repeat, if you do so, and change the position of any other Screen trimpot in there, you will then need an ISF calibration. And last time I did the ISF course, they didn't teach us how to deal with the focus block trimpots AT ALL. They specifically said to leave them alone, as they are not techs, like I am, and neither are 99.9% of their students.

Mr Bob

WEMICHENER

12-10-07, 02:17 PM

Mr Bob

12-10-07, 02:39 PM

Hello Bob,

We have talked before, Im in a spot with my Pro 710 thats got me stumped. After changing the convergence chips (110 to 180) my convergence keeps jumping around even after the TV has been on awhile. I thought the old 110 were the cause of it but the 180's do the same thing. What else could be causing the convergence to hop around (especially the red). There are 2 other IC on the convergence heat sink, should I try replacing these? Or is it something else in the power board causing this problem? Any help would be grateful.

Bill

If the jumping around is from one set of characteristics to another and back, over and over, then you have one cold solder joint somewhere that is letting go and then remaking contact.

Has your PS board been resoldered all the way? If it has only been spot-resoldered, then it needs to be resoldered everywhere except the test points and heat sinks.

If your conv is bouncing around all over the place in its settings, then we go to the next level, which could get really scary, and tricky.

This thread is for directly and predictably remedied things going on about your set.

You may have a problem that actually needs to have a repair tech called in.

Mr Bob

WEMICHENER

12-10-07, 03:11 PM

Mr Bob

12-10-07, 03:21 PM

After thinking about what you said in the post, the red convergence shifts from left to right and then back right to left about every 5-10 minutes, it does not shift up and down. It only shifts about an 8th of an inch which is enough to make it look bad but then if I dont try adjusting it swings back to normal some of the time. When the set was under warrantry they had replaced the PS board, and I have never had that problem before. Ill try the PS board resoldier technique, but could the 2 other IC's on the large heat sink of the convergence board be causing this problem?

Thanks again Bob for all your help.

No way to tell without being on location with the unit, or via consulting the service manual schematics.

Is it a linear kind of shifting, where the entire image shifts the same amount, or non-linear, where different parts of the pic shift different amounts?

It's hard to think why it would be the PS board when what it puts out goes to all 6 conv channels at all times, equally. Yours seems to only be concerned with 1 of those 6 channels, the red horizontal one, which would only concern the 1 IC of the 2 conv ones, that handles the hor on that color.

However, the static conv - the crosshairs, side to side and up and down of the blue and red - can be in a totally different area of circuitry from the dynamic conv, which affects all 3 colors. If so, that would leave your ICs in the clear.

Mr Bob

DanClark

12-11-07, 01:22 AM

I adjusted the green screen trimpot and it helped quite a bit. You were right...fine adjustments is all it needs. I'm not sure if I've got it adjusted perfectly, but it's definitely better than it was. I'm going to run through my Video Essentials disk again and see how things are looking. Thanks again for the tips, Bob!

Cheers
Dan

Mr Bob

12-11-07, 10:36 AM

Mr Bob

12-12-07, 12:22 PM

Some shots from a 610 I calibrated yesterday.

Long day. Wee hours when uploading the shots. Gonna hit it. More later -

Mr Bob

From CSI Miami

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/4913/111707samples13frombarnoe7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/1060/111707samples13frombarnzw6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Denny Crane

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/4843/111707samples13frombarnbm7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Mr Bob

12-12-07, 07:13 PM

These are actually a little oversaturated on the color intensity level, I know.

This is because we couldn't control color or tint on them at the display.

These come in as RGB from Joe's HTPC setup, and as such color and tint are disabled on the TV. As such the only way to alter color or tint is to find it in the PC program, which was not readily available to us at the time.

And all he has for HD is OTA, he doesn't yet own an HD disc player of either kind.

By the time we had completed the calibration, it was way into the wee hours - I technically left his driveway at 3:25am. NEITHER of us wanted to be expending ANY extra energy by that point!

So view these knowing that if it were your set and you were going in with your HD signal via component after one of my calibrations, they would look exactly the same except that the color and tint would be correct, as long as you set them correctly.

And that if you were to be sending in the signal from an HD disc player, either HD DVD or BluRay, your picture would wind up being even better than his, here.

I have encouraged him to buy an HD disc player, whereupon his picture will get even better. Neither HD disc format has any problems putting out HD via component, which is still what I do with my HD, on my HDMI equipped - but non-used - 1 year old 73" Mit.

He is going to rearrange his room to accommodate a 7'-8' viewing distance. He currently sits 12' back, and was MOST pleased when he tried sitting up at 7' instead. He can't wait to be able to see that much larger image from his set, once he rearranges things in his living room.

Mr Bob

drjensen1

12-13-07, 01:34 PM

Does anyone in San Diego want to team up and have Mr. Bob fix / clean / calibrate your set? I'm planning to have Mr. Bob down to San Diego in January 2008 and would like to share expenses. Please email or call me and I'll arrange the details. 858.967.7189 or dave.jensen@wsm.com

joebarnhart

12-14-07, 03:22 AM

I'm the proud owner of the Pioneer 610 recently calibrated by Mr. Bob. It was a 12 hour ordeal. (Hard work facinates me... I could just sit there and watch it forever!) Actually, Bob gave me some painting sticks and let me color a little while he worked. It was fun.

My set had been calibrated by Mr. Bob a little over three years ago, so it was reasonably OK to begin with. But this visit really put the shine on the apple. The "structure" (focus, linearity, convergence) is just incredible now. The grey scale is dialed in perfectly and the color, while over saturated a bit by my zealous HTPC, is spot-on.

I'm a happy TV viewer!

Here are a few of my own images.

http://www.pbase.com/image/90305341/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/90305346/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/90305348/original.jpg

(I think the last one got stretched a little vertically when I took out the trapezoidal distortion from shooting off center. :D)

Mr Bob

12-14-07, 12:28 PM

The devil is in the details.

Are my horns showing?

;)

Mr Bob

drjensen1

12-14-07, 08:49 PM

Plans changed a bit. Mr Bob is coming to San Diego the week after to Christmas to fix my set. Who wants to share expenses? my ph# is 858-967-7189 email dave.jensen@wsm.com

Mr Bob

12-15-07, 10:29 AM

Here's Joe's shot of the same frame as mine above, only shot with his cam and emailed to me later.

His is bigger than mine!

:(

At least the one I had with me at the time...

:D

The one that took the Cally pic above, along with the Denny Crane shot, is a highly compact point and shoot Konica Minolta x50, with a really tiny lens compared to his much bigger one, which took the one below...

Pix of his freshly calibrated 7 year old Pioneer 610, in all cases. I have been saying for years that well treated and properly calibrated CRT tech has an easy 10 year lifespan, of looking better than new at all times.

Any 510/610/710 that's been cared for properly can deliver this kind of fidelity. No reason I can see to go out and buy something new, when you have this incredibly stealth grade of unit already in your possession -

And remember, this is from OTA. HD DVD and BluRay images will be even better, on these units.

Mr Bob

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/787/111707samples13frombarnuy4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

joebarnhart

12-16-07, 12:01 PM

Mr Bob

12-17-07, 12:25 PM

Bob, you silly goose. :D You got the photos mixed up. Here is the EXIF from the pic you posted:

Camera Make: KONICA MINOLTA
Camera Model: DiMAGE X50
Image Date: 2007:12:12 03:55:21
Flash Used: No
Focal Length: 14.4mm (35mm equivalent: 87mm)
Exposure Time: 0.050 s (1/20)
Aperture: f/4.7
ISO equiv: 100
White Balance: Auto
Metering Mode: Matrix
Exposure: program (Auto)

Here is the larger version of the Cally photo. (She is the best character in this otherwise unremarkable series. David Caruso sucks.)

I THOUGHT those 2 supposedly different ones I sent up looked suspiciously similar...

I gotta get a better camera...

:rolleyes:

Well whattya think, guys? Not bad for a 7 year old set, eh? A little hot on the color saturation, but again, that's not the display's fault, and CSI Miami runs a little hot on the color anyway. Joe, could you show us what that pic really looks like on your set, if you can find the color/tint settings on your PC? Reducing your color level just a few clicks should do it.

The crispness of Joe's 610 on this shot speaks for itself -

Your sets have HUGE amounts of life left in them. Joe's is probably only halfway home, in its lifespan.

They are just aching to show it to you.

Let me at them!

:)

Mr Bob

Brett328

12-17-07, 03:55 PM

Mr Bob

12-18-07, 12:35 PM

Well I found this thread earlier this year, but procrastinated doing anything about it. Set works most of the time, but black levels are way too dark. And the power shutdowns, were very rare. After the last one though, I couldnt power back on for day or so. Weird, but now it does. Set has been disconnected for a while due to basement remodel, but now I'm ready to enjoy this machines capabilities again. Anyway, went to see about ordering the PS board at Pioneer. Only to find out that they list 2 different boards (old model, new model). How can I tell which I have?

Please DON'T use your set until you have remedied the problem with the PS board! It could cause deeper problems, to keep running it.

I keep saying this...

:(

The best way to keep your precision settings that are dependent on the regulations in the power supplies is to have it resoldered, and keep that board.

Send it to me, as others here have done, and I'll try for a 2 day turnaround for you.

Mr Bob

drjensen1

12-18-07, 03:22 PM

OK San Diego. Bob will be in San Diego on Thursday December 27 and Friday December 28. Who wants to share expenses? Call me (David Jensen) at 858-967-7189.

Mr Bob

12-18-07, 06:48 PM

OK San Diego. Bob will be in San Diego on Thursday December 27 and Friday December 28. Who wants to share expenses? Call me (David Jensen) at 858-967-7189.

I will be glad to stay thru the weekend, if you guys wish.

Anyone who has a CRT RPTV needs optics cleaning if it's over 3 years old. (Actually at the first year point would be good, but maybe that's only for videophiles...)

Half a dozen optics cleanings on this trip would be wonderful, for all concerned. That op is very inexpensive, and is thus ideal for anyone not needing a full calibration.

I am also available for partial calibrations for anyone on a budget. For a minimum, fully applicable charge of the travel plus $150, I will look over your situation and recommend what I think would benefit your set most, if you don't want to spring for a full calibration.

Or will just do what you tell me to -

In any event, the $150 goes towards whatever you want done, just becomes part of that, is not an extra fee.

Mr Bob

macav

12-20-07, 07:20 AM

FYI,,,Just saw a 710 for sale on Ebay for $400!! Its listed in Fal.
Tom

macav

12-20-07, 07:21 AM

Sorry thats Fla

Mr Bob

12-20-07, 11:04 AM

FYI,,,Just saw a 710 for sale on Ebay for $400!! Its listed in Fla.
Tom

That's incredible! If there's no screenburn and has been used an average number of regular usage hours at midpoint Contrast - the default - and does not have any intermittents showing up, someone in Fla should jump on that! 64" Pioneer Elite with black piano lacquer finish? It's a no brainer. I charged more than that for a 57" 620 I had sent to Texas, from where I live.

Even if the PS board needs resoldering from the intermittents, it's still a steal!

BTW, I just learned that the non-Elite 643 series of Pioneer HDready from that time period does NOT default the Contrast to midpoint upon leaving the sm, like the Elites do. They must be told to do so by the owner, in User contrast, after leaving sm.

Mr Bob

srarfi

12-20-07, 09:37 PM

I will be glad to refund half of the $85 if you wish, and you can have 10 minutes of additional calibration phone consultation at any time. Or you can call back and let me guide you thru some additional stuff you can do with your unit once it's up and running again, with the remaining half hour of unused phone consultation time. I have a veritable treasure trove of technical information I can dip into at any time, for making your viewing experience more exciting.

I thought it would take longer than half an hour, with the scenario that had been presented to me. As you said, we both got caught off guard when the thing suddenly worked again, on us. At which time I said "Shut it down. NOW!" Before it would have a chance to warm up.

The jobs coming in are very spurious and occasional - no way I'd be able to make my mortgage payment on them, much less eat, with the expenses just living presents me with every month! Even go out to the movies, if it has to go to living expenses first.

I currently have 2 in the hopper - yours and one other, that's being sent also. I would only hope that it would become more frequent!

Such things as this are the ONLY way I get any form of reimbursement for spending the hours per day I spend, manning this thread and others, both here and at other forums. If you've read all the pages in this thread, as you said you had, check out my number of posts on just this forum, then start counting up the hours I have spent on writing what I have written here, with all the corrections and rewrites it has taken to do it, and still maintain the perfectionism my reputation is built on. There is NO pay for being here, doing that. If you think AVS Forum has a pay scale for that, think again! It is ALL volunteer, here, on these boards.

Multiply that with the other threads here that I participate in - I am sure you could do a search here for that - plus at other sites I man a presence on, like www.hometheaterspot.com.

At which point I hope that you will see that your job and the one other being sent to me that's in the hopper, are only a drop in the bucket compared to the time I have given away free, just here on THIS thread, in terms of hourly earnings I coulda made by spending that time elsewhere, where they pay people for what they do. Managing a McDonalds pays more than what I make being here on this forum, which is zero. Even WORKING at a McDonalds pays more! And my advice has been professional grade at all times, which MOST of the people who read it use to their own advantage privately, without a second thought about taking care of me in return.

But I will keep on doing so, even tho the $ returns so far have been pretty paltry when all is said and done, because I believe in this medium and in how dang GOOD these Pioneers are!

And because I enjoy doing what I do, to no end.

Mr Bob

Ok sports fan... Got my Board back from Bob Yesterday and reinstalled it... "piece of cake"

Thought I still had "slight" problems as intermittent subtle flash happened ocassionally... Called the Professor (i.e. Bob) after I got it installed and he was nice enough to take my call on his cell phone and "help me land the plane" remotely...

Game plan was to isloate the flash that ended up to be either a loose connection or bad co-ax cable as I went to Ace Hardware and brought a new Co-ax cable.. Works like a charm now.

However, I asked Bob to include walking me through set-ups on the TV that I could adjust... (i.e see his comment re: "additional calibration phone consultation at any time")

Bob said we would need to take off the front to clean the optics first before doing any adjustments... Now Bob does have an occassional problem with Techno babble... (but good guy so just tell Bob to stop and talk like a real person)... Plus I'm an opinionated 51 year old S.O.B. so I can be "difficult" sometimes but Bob and I seemed to be able to avoid the COOL HAND LUKE reference "...what we have here is a failure to communicate..." Probably anyone under 35-40 won't get-it but I thought it appropriate...

So I degress... sorry. Bob said I need to get "Sprayaway" foam glass cleaner... Got it Walmart (or Sams Club in bulk)... He also wanted me to use Linen Mittens but I gave up and went to the automotive section at walmart and got cheap "microfiber" lint free cloths and some 100% cotton "lint free" cloths to try... I also picked up a couple pairs of cheap strectch ladies gloves and windex had some dry microfiber cleaning sheets in the aisle I picked up the Sprayway cleaner... SO DON'T TELL BOB BUT TOMORROW WHEN I PLAY OPTICS\LENSE CLEANERMAN I'M GOING TO LIE AND TELL HIM I GOT LINEN MITTENS... Shhh don't say anything ok? Walmart total costs less then $10... So goes to prove if you can't get it at Walmart you don't need it!

I've attached copies of 16 pages from a couple service manuals I purchased... I got $100+ bucks invested into the service manuals but will gladly send copies if some contacts me at sra.rockford at gmail.com. (would appreciate recovering some of the costs if anyone has a need for the info but don't want to wait for Pioneer to deliver or drop a $100+)

Ok that's the latest... Bob has delivered and he knows his stuff even though "in my opinion" he needs to work a little on his bedside manner ... but then again maybe it's me as people say I'm a pain in the ass to deal with sometimes. Just that I'm the customer who dropped a $360 bucks on the deal...

So far... What I've seen Bob delivers and I would highly recommend ANYONE SEEK HIM OUT as he can even talk the novice (i.e. clueless) like me though "landing the airplane"

I'm excited about the prospects that cleaning the optics will have a huge impact on picture quality.... plus Bob's advice on "fine tuning adjustments".... I'll report on the result so stayed tuned on this same bat channel:)

....come on that was funny at least for the gray beards who rememebr the 1960's....

Mr Bob

12-21-07, 05:05 PM

Ok sports fan... Got my Board back from Bob Yesterday and reinstalled it... "piece of cake"

Thought I still had "slight" problems as intermittent subtle flash happened ocassionally... Called the Professor (i.e. Bob) after I got it installed and he was nice enough to take my call on his cell phone and "help me land the plane" remotely...

Game plan was to isloate the flash that ended up to be either a loose connection or bad co-ax cable as I went to Ace Hardware and brought a new Co-ax cable.. Works like a charm now.

However, I asked Bob to include walking me through set-ups on the TV that I could adjust... (i.e see his comment re: "additional calibration phone consultation at any time")

Bob said we would need to take off the front to clean the optics first before doing any adjustments... Now Bob does have an occassional problem with Techno babble... (but good guy so just tell Bob to stop and talk like a real person)... Plus I'm an opinionated 51 year old S.O.B. so I can be "difficult" sometimes but Bob and I seemed to be able to avoid the COOL HAND LUKE reference "...what we have here is a failure to communicate..." Probably anyone under 35-40 won't get-it but I thought it appropriate...

So I degress... sorry. Bob said I need to get "Sprayaway" foam glass cleaner... Got it Walmart (or Sams Club in bulk)... He also wanted me to use Linen Mittens but I gave up and went to the automotive section at walmart and got cheap "microfiber" lint free cloths and some 100% cotton "lint free" cloths to try... I also picked up a couple pairs of cheap strectch ladies gloves and windex had some dry microfiber cleaning sheets in the aisle I picked up the Sprayway cleaner... SO DON'T TELL BOB BUT TOMORROW WHEN I PLAY OPTICS\LENSE CLEANERMAN I'M GOING TO LIE AND TELL HIM I GOT LINEN MITTENS... Shhh don't say anything ok? Walmart total costs less then $10... So goes to prove if you can't get it at Walmart you don't need it!

I've attached copies of 16 pages from a couple service manuals I purchased... I got $100+ bucks invested into the service manuals but will gladly send copies if some contacts me at sra.rockford at gmail.com. (would appreciate recovering some of the costs if anyone has a need for the info but don't want to wait for Pioneer to deliver or drop a $100+)

Ok that's the latest... Bob has delivered and he knows his stuff even though "in my opinion" he needs to work a little on his bedside manner ... but then again maybe it's me as people say I'm a pain in the ass to deal with sometimes. Just that I'm the customer who dropped a $360 bucks on the deal...

So far... What I've seen Bob delivers and I would highly recommend ANYONE SEEK HIM OUT as he can even talk the novice (i.e. clueless) like me though "landing the airplane"

I'm excited about the prospects that cleaning the optics will have a huge impact on picture quality.... plus Bob's advice on "fine tuning adjustments".... I'll report on the result so stayed tuned on this same bat channel:)

....come on that was funny at least for the gray beards who rememebr the 1960's....

Denny just spent over an hour on the phone with me on the next steps to take with his set, now that the board he sent me has been re-installed and his set works properly again. With it up and running again, the first thing he asked me was whether there was anything that could then be done to improve his picture.

What an opening! Oh, yeah...

It was both the regular and the deeper optics cleanings. We will pursue the focusing next, at a later time.

I just love this stuff!

:cool:

Mr Bob

srarfi

12-21-07, 05:13 PM

Ok today we moved further along on the journey... See the previous posts for pictures\diagrams to help in taking off the front screen and cleaning the mirror and optics.

Cleaning the mirror went easy but cleaning the 3 lenses was a bit nerve racking to say the least... Be sure to have a magnetic screw driver or a magnet reach attachment as if you drop a screw --- wow what a pain to reach it without one. (of course I didn't have one or at least couldn't find one so had to stomp off to local to Ace Hardware to pick one up)

Cleaning the lenses is tricky work and I'm not sure if I scratched the lenses or not. But the improved picture quality just from a good cleaning is truly remarkable.

Now the meter expired on first $85 telephone service call right in the middle of the cleaning job so I anted up another $85 dollars to walk me through the fine tuning adjustments of focus and convergence? Etc...

I got stressed with dropping screws and not knowing what the heck I was doing on cleaning the lenses... worried about scratching them (I may have)... Plus I put the damn screen on backwards so at first was "crushed" that all my work (and money) might have went for naught... It didn't as when I turned the screen around WOW what a difference the cleaning made.

Because I was stressed and wanted to get the most out the remaining $85 charge we agreed to revisit things 12\26 as far as the next round.

So hears my recap...

$275 (+ UPS Shipping both ways) for the resoldering job... I got no clue if this is a fair price or not as I see others did it themselves but some mucked it up... Bob's work costs me over $300 and I'll assume it was a highest quality job and worth the money.

As far as talking me through taking out the power board and today’s cleaning job... the $85 charge seems a little high as nothing was really "rocket science"... Definitely experienced driven as far as using the Sprayway, linen gloves and paper towels but Bob swung and missed telling me about needing a magnetic screwing driver... That burned up considerable time.

Now Bob had some great experience\knowledge to pass along but when "I'm on the clock" let's Get 'er Done as my bill so far is pushing $400 for the costs of taking out 2-3 screws for the Power Board, UPS Shipping Costs and the real time of 15-30 minutes of talking me through taking off the front screen and how to clean the mirror and lenses... Otherwise he was just waiting on me.

So I'm adding in another $85 to the cause and I believe I can still come out ahead for the money spent assuming the focusing adjustments tricks that Bob offers really leverages up the quality of the picture...

Still at the end of the day, Bob is out nothing but his time as the work with me has little if any out-of-pocket expense. So $275 + $85 +$85 = $445 that in my book isn't too bad of a part-time gig... especially considering he never left his home to make it....

Bob has some great expertise that he's developed over time and deserves to be paid well... He hasn't forced anything on me so I have zero to complain about and in fact a hell of a lot to be damn thankful for as I almost junked a very expensive high-end television

Just in Rockford, IL $445-$500 is a heck of a lot of money to me... It may be small potatoes in San Francisco or to high rollers but I'm done with the next round of telephone tech talk... Will let you all know how things play out. Merry Christmas all... Be sure to seek Bob out as he's a good guy in my book.

Denny Wallace Rockford, IL

Mr Bob

12-21-07, 05:42 PM

Denny may not know it, but I keep very tight track of the time spent on the phone, and he still has 20 minutes of phone consultation left, for our next go-round.

All things considered, bottom line for the consumer is, for x number of dollars, am I better off for having spent them than I woulda been if I had not?

Pioneer Elite owners spent between $5000-$7000 for their sets. What is it worth to keep them alive, well and looking superb years later, rather than trash them, and lose that entire investment?

Pioneer shoulda paid me, not Denny. It's not fair that they did a lousy job of soldering their PS boards back then, and won't belly up to the bar now, and take care of their loyal customers.

If Denny coulda had them take care of paying me, he would only be considering a fraction of what he has had to actually pay, by now.

His real beef should be with them, not me, as to costs. I simply earn what I need to, to survive. The Bay Area is NOT cheap to live in, and many people actually have to leave, if they can't cut it here. Sometimes I get lucky and earn what I should, sometimes I lose my ass, and spend beaucoup amounts of time earning very little.

In any event, what he spent with me also has to at least start to chip in to help cover the countless hours I spend on the net at boards like this every day, giving out the professional info - like an attorney would - that brought him - and I hope a continuing stream of others - to me. Writing that is invaluable to countless lurkers here - possibly in the thousands, and worldwide - but for which I don't get paid anything.

If not for what he spent with me and others like him, there would NO saving grace to even being here with you guys. It would simply cost me cost me cost me, in terms of my irreplaceable production time every day, which goes into these threads every day. So his $ was a contribution to my continuing to stay here, of service to you guys.

Today I got lucky, and was able to make a Pioneer owner very happy in the process.

I hope tomorrow will be as good!

;)

Mr Bob

joebarnhart

12-22-07, 05:16 PM

I recently had Mr. Bob tune up my Pioneer Elite 610HD. Was it expensive? Compared to what? I dropped money on Mr. Bob, and was rewarded with a set that outshines any I see at the local BB, CC or Fry's. And you know what? When I finally DO get a laser-powered, uber-set in the future -- my first call will be to Mr. Bob to spend even more money on it to make it LOOK GOOD.

Fact is, no sets come from the factory looking even half as good as they could. That was the whole philosophy behind ISF calibrations to begin with. It's still true today. The convergence problem is largely solved ;-) but color, overscan, and other picture fidelity problems still abound.

Maybe Mr. Bob should come up with a yearly "retainer" or "insurance" program. He'd get a little each year, and would be there for us when we need that tune-up or cleaning.

srarfi

12-23-07, 05:48 PM

Mr Bob

12-24-07, 07:07 AM

Per Bob "...In any event, what he spent with me also has to at least start to chip in to help cover the countless hours I spend on the net at boards like this every day...":confused:

Bob godbless you for your efforts and I agree probably way too often people may abuse "free advice" when it should have been "paid advice."

Right out of the gate I agreed to go on the clock and promptly paid $85 to Bob's paypal account... I sure hopes Bob see's the difference between me and many others -- I never ever looked to abuse his time and paid up front

But sorry Bob, not my responsibility to "chip in to help cover the countless hours I spend on the net at boards"

The only thing I believe I should be charge for is time\service\efforts extended DIRECTLY on my behalf...

To suggest otherwise will only encourgages people to "work you for free stuff" before you demand to be paid...

I never abuse your efforts and in fact bellied up to the bar with money before we had even talked 2-3 minutes... all in good faith that you would deliver.

Bob has delivered, but as I said I'm also approaching $500 all paid to someone who perfomed work out of their home... I suggest this is not a bad gig even if it's not full-time that you can live off of.

Bottom-line... I should only be obligated to pay for service performed directly for me... Paying for others (who abuse your time) doesn't sit well for me.

FYI, the TV is performing extremly well and if the next round of "adjustments" have the same magnatude of improved performance... even a cheap ass like me will say the $500 is an extremly great deal...

No offense intended or directed towards Bob as "I highly recommend him" to others who need help with their Pioneer Elite TV's (probably others too). Just a liitle difference of opinion on what I should be asked to pay for and "hassle of on the clock time or off the clock"...

Like I said I'm cheap but I'll gladly pay for good service but I'd feel a whole heck of lot better if I have a menu of stuff at a flat charge instead of being asked to pay $85 upfront... then $275 then another $85 right in the middle of things...

But that's just my opinions... Hell I could be full of it!

Well said and well received, Denny. I couldn't agree more. You bellied up to the bar up front and took care of business up front, and your payment(s) have had absolutely NOTHING to do with what I do here on these boards, they have been strictly for your repair and consultation and nothing else. Far be it from me to consider any of what you have paid so far, to be also taking care of what others learn from being here on this thread. Your payments have strictly gone for YOUR benefit, not the benefit of others, and I think both of us are in agreement that the sums so far - for the the benefit of your set alone, privately and with nobody else benefitting from the phone consults we have already done - have been money well spent. My apologies for attempting to lump your payment situation in on any matters that really didn't have anything to do with you. I feel you have gotten what you have paid for, and I think you do too.

Keep in mind, of course, that I did offer you half of the original $85 back when it didn't take the full hour as expected on the phone up front, at your choice. You chose to keep on with the consultation and not receive the half hour refund I offered you, which would have placed you at only half an hour's worth of investment at the outset - $42.50 - not the full $85. I appreciate the faith you had in me for so doing, and am glad you are happy with the results so far.

Of course there is no way to know ahead of time how much consultation will be needed for/desired by each individual person, so ongoing $85/hr is the only way to go, on this type of thing, depending completely on just how far you want to go with it. Would love to know ahead of time how much should be charged on these things, but different people have different capacities, some are quicker or slower to catch on at this or that than others are, and different people want to know different levels of how far into a calibration they want to get technical advice on, from me re. calibrations. There's no way to know ahead of time what kind of phone time will be needed for each improvement, for each person, nor how many improvements each person will want, for their particular set -

:o

Rest assured that what is coming up for us in our next session will be just as valuable to your picture as what has already transpired so far. I am very gratified at your response to the improvements that you can now see so far, due to our work so far together.

Merry Xmas!

Mr Bob

zigmeisterxiv

12-27-07, 06:53 PM

So these things are really still worth up to $500 ???

Ill be getting a plasma next month.

Thanks

drjensen1

12-27-07, 08:38 PM

srarfi

12-27-07, 09:30 PM

San Diegans...Mr. Bob is currently in San Diego (12/27/07) tuning up my 610. Call me at 858-967-7189 if you are in need of a power supply repair, calibration, or optics cleaning. He will be here thru tomorrow. The trip is already paid for, I just ask that we share airfare of $250. and hotel of $100.

Say Dave, I got your email about the service manuals but needs a little more advance warning.... The 18MB file doesn't email easily... Better to know what you have interest in see attached for some ideas.

Please let me know what the final tab turns out to be for Bob's work as I would like to compare costs for the $450 I spent on the soldering job and phone support that got me a cleaned mirror and optic lenses AND A MUCH BETTER PICTURE --- versus an in-person effort.
Bob knows his stuff but the question seems to be at what costs can someone take advantage of it for their own personal needs....

Mr Bob

12-28-07, 12:22 PM

Say Dave, I got your email about the service manuals but needs a little more advance warning.... The 18MB file doesn't email easily... Better to know what you have interest in see attached for some ideas.

Please let me know what the final tab turns out to be for Bob's work as I would like to compare costs for the $450 I spent on the soldering job and phone support that got me a cleaned mirror and optic lenses AND A MUCH BETTER PICTURE --- versus an in-person effort.
Bob knows his stuff but the question seems to be at what costs can someone take advantage of it for their own personal needs....

Dave is having only one scanrate done, and no overscan reduction on either scanrate, so his charges will wind up being a lot less than what they would be with the whole enchilada - a complete stem to stern calibration, including all SD aspect ratios and glarescreen removal.

He did have me clean his internal optics, on the deeper optics cleaning.

He gets his 480i grayscale done free even tho he is not having 480i calibrated, since on Pioneers we have to start with the ground level, which is S video, before we dial in the grayscale on the other scanrates. Whatever gets done on the S affects anything that gets done downline from that. It is a tiered system that way, on all sorts of registers in there.

If others chime in on my being here in SD right now and have me do some other jobs while I am here, and Dave can thus save some of the travel money, he has said that that might enable him to have me do the overscan reduc on the HD scanrate after all, which he originally wanted but which had to be abandoned from his budget when he saw how dirty the deeper optics were, once the regular optics were cleaned. He knew he could either do one or the other, but not both.

A few short optics cleaning gigs while I am here, deeper or not, would help all around, even if no complete calibrations come up -

Mr Bob

drjensen1

12-29-07, 12:46 PM

Mr Bob

12-29-07, 02:33 PM

SRARFI...the picture on my 610 has never looked better. The calibration that Bob did was badly needed. Bob definitely knows what he is doing.

I still have a problem to track down and fix on my set tho. According to Bob, there is nothing wrong with my power supply. (It was replaced a year ago when I started having a compression problem that causes the set to shut off).

There is some sort of intermittent flicker or compression happening on the bottom 2 inches of the picture accompanied by blue, yellow, red, and white bands that are angled or bowed upward as they reach the edge of the picture. Sometimes the compression happens all the way up to mid-screen and the set shuts off and won't turn back on. Bob saw the flicker and said he had never seen anything like it before.

Thanks for the service manuals!!

-drjensen1

Actually there's no easy way to know whether the PS bd is bad or not, but I think having the board replaced earlier, didn't solve the problem mentioned. I poked around in there and tapped on everything that would usually cause intermittencies, all to no avail. Was all I could do without serious and moderately expensive intervention, so we stopped there. So no, I can't absolutely give it a clean bill of health, but it being the cause of the brief anomaly I saw, looks unlikely.

Yes, the pic had horrendous green in all the dark areas including and esp. where it shoulda been black, and was very dim. After retweaking the Screen pots - which ISF does not teach how to do - and totally realigning the grayscale, plus working with the color and tint among all available HD channels - it has red push, so the blue isolation/filter test does us no good - it now shows like it's supposed to. With clean as a whistle blacks, delicate D6500K grays and creamy whites. And plenty of punch again, finally, no need to squint at THIS picture anymore, to make out shadow detail. His CRTs have PLENTY of life left in them. Like Joe's, prolly only halfway thru their life, so far, and sizzling with brightness and punch.

Also due to the deeper optics cleaning he sprang for, of course.

He didn't want overscan reduction, but his edges were curved and non-parallel, so I totally redid the geometry and then did a very finely stiched convergence, which took hours. Had to call a breaking point about midnight - we were both completely wiped out by then - and finish it the next day.

Suffice to say even his wife was impressed! That's when I know I have REALLY prevailed...!

:cool:

Mr Bob

mwwest

12-29-07, 09:05 PM

Thanks to everyone for an awesome thread...I've had the PS problem for quite some time now but have just today stumbled across this thread. I promptly removed the board and took it to a local tech who knew exactly what needed to be done...Will update on progress when I get the board back.

The reason for the post is to see if anyone has any advice on how to get my HTPC running on the 510HD. I connected today using a component cable from my ATI HD 2600XT graphics card. I could see the computer screen fine until I upped the resolution beyond the lowest setting. The picture would display, but it would "roll" vertically (like on an older TV set). I tried different refresh rates, different resolutions but nothing worked (everything "rolled"). 1360 x 768 resolution works fine on my Dell 37" LCD but I would like to see 1080i in action as I have a dual HD/Blu-Ray drive in the HTPC.

Thanks in advance!

ATTN Mr. Bob - Did you ever schedule a trip to RTP, NC? I live in East TN and would be interested in a calibration.

Mr Bob

12-29-07, 10:41 PM

ATTN Mr. Bob - Did you ever schedule a trip to RTP, NC? I live in East TN and would be interested in a calibration.

The Raleigh, NC trip has not gotten off the ground at this point, it is still a gleam in the eye of its creator.

If you want to take over getting it actually going, I would be glad to share the info with you, on the other interesteds in that area.

;)

Mr Bob

dkristun

12-30-07, 11:28 PM

Mr. Bob,

I have the blown fuses as well on my Pioneer SD532HD5. My PS board looks the same. I checked and I have issues with my joints on E3, E5. I'm taking care of that but I think I need to replace my IC's. I have looked through this board but cant find the post you made informing people where the IC's are. I think you said they are on the convergence board but I dont know what an IC looks like. How many are there and where do I get replacements?

Thanks.

drjensen1

12-31-07, 03:45 PM

AVS Forum readers...Bob cleaned and calibrated my Pioneer 610HD. No question, he knows what he is doing. The picture has never looked as good as it does now.

I'm going to try a power/line conditioner and see if it cures my compression/flicker issue. I'll be sure to post an update after a reasonable testing period.

Mr Bob

12-31-07, 05:30 PM

dkristun

01-02-08, 12:08 AM

Mr Bob

01-03-08, 01:25 PM

Mr. Bob,

I looked and I have two ICs and they are stk 392-110. My internals are very simulary to the ones on this board. In fact the service manual covers my TV as well. I have teh same problem with my TV. It was shuting down on its onw. So I put a fan in the back and it worked for a while but then one day I turned it on and the screen was blue and green. It looked realy wierd. So I turned it off and then abck on. It looked fine and then the TV poped like it used to and turned off. This time it would not turn back on.

My fuses were blown. I replaced them and they blew again within 30 seconds. i have resoldered my PS board and I have ordered two ICs through the web site you suggested. I ordered the stk 392-180. An I doing the right thing?

Yes.

You woulda saved yourself a lot of headache and uncertainty if you had hopped on this when it first showed itself. And an additional repair, that never had to happen, the one you're facing now.

Instead of doing that, you kept using it and using it and using it, adding a fan you thought might bring it back. NOTHING of that band-aid type nature will bring back a steadily deteriorating situation in these units! Bad conns are like needed dental work - they will only get worse on their own.

Now your conv ICs are most likely blown. If you have the standard PS board being spoken of here - the non-Elites sometimes use different PS boards, I think - that board needs to be resoldered as well, and if so, that board prolly precipitated - and caused - the failure on your conv bd.

Owners of Pioneer big screens should NOT let it go, like that. Deeper problems are likely to occur if you keep using your set while hurt, as has been stated many times on this thread.

If yours is exhibiting intermittent problems, SHUT IT DOWN. Find another set to watch for a while, DON'T keep pushing it!

Get it fixed. THEN turn it on again.

If you nip these things in the bud, they don't have a chance to get worse, like has happened here.

Mr Bob

dkristun

01-03-08, 06:53 PM

Mr Bob

01-04-08, 02:38 AM

Mr. Bob

Sorry to keep bothering you. I am new to this board. I stored my TV in the garage for a few months while researching ways to fix it. I thought it was dead until I found this site. It did get cold outside. Is it possible all my boards could need to be resoldered. Can cold temps be a problem for the TV. I thought I was going to trash it. It is so big that I left it in the garage. I'm glad I kept it because I think i can fix it. But I was wondering about the cold weather affecting it.

What do you think. I have since brought it back inside as I wait for my parts.

No, cold should not be a problem leading to deterioration of your boards. I am sure that when new, these units get stored in relatively - if not REALLLLLLLY - cold warehouses all the time for weeks at a time, on the way to the retail outlets.

It should not cause you to have to worry about that, the rest of your boards will be just fine.

But be sure to get it up to room temp before turning it on, as dew will settle in there at first, just like in the old days with VCRs. So get it inside and keep it there for at least a full day before turning it on.

Mr Bob

darrell.odonnell

01-04-08, 11:15 PM

Mr Bob

01-05-08, 07:08 AM

OK - I found this thread via google - been reading it for about an hour and a half and now I have confused the heck out of myself. Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction (betting on one Mr. Bob or Denny.)

My 610HD (about 7 years old this month I believe) just started flashing blue occasionally. What is the likely symptom? My understanding of the threads is that it could be as simple as a loose connection in the TV?

Any help is immensely appreciated.

Darrell O'Donnell
Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA

More like dozens of loose connections, with the numbers going up all the time as the board continues to age.

The entire PS board was badly soldered at the factory, and those bad conn's are finally letting go. Some awhile ago, some not yet, but eventually there will be problems on most of the boards, and those which have only been moderately resoldered will have further problems in the future with those conn's that have not been resoldered yet. Quite frankly I am amazed that not all of them have started exhibiting problems, but I have done many calibrations on units that have not, at least not as yet.

Properly soldered boards NEVER have these problems. The conns of the thick gray wires they added to this board afterwards are still gleaming and glossy, just like they should be, even tho exactly the same age as the board itself, and added at the same time as the board was produced, years ago. ALL the other boards in the unit are fine, are not exhibiting these problems. They'll last a lifetime, like they should.

The board conn's themselves, from the solder flow machine they used on that run of boards back then, are the only ones that aren't holding up.

And there are many boards in there! One of which is a multi-layer board, loaded with surface mount caps and ICs, and MUCH more sophisticated than this one. I have NEVER seen that one go out, and I don't think I ever will.

The entire PS board needs to be resoldered, on every conn that goes anywhere in there - meaning you can skip ONLY the test points and heat sinks - and no that's not an "as simple as" situation. Any 2 adjoining conns, of the many many dozens of the more tiny solder conn's, could get inadvertently connected together with one small slip of your attention, resulting in a short called a "solder bridge". Since we don't know where in the circuit that would occur, there's no way to know what would happen. That short could cause a string of domino effects we wouldn't even want to start to think about. It takes the proper level of care, patience, diligence, attention to fine detail and total dedication to being there for that board in the resoldering job, to get it right. I use strong lighting and headset magnification when I resolder these boards, just to be sure.

With the proper level of attention, that board is TOTALLY savable, and once treated the right way, will be just like all the other boards in there and will never go out again. And if kept on the job, not simply replaced with a new board, it will honor and preserve your original high precision settings downline from it, as no new board can do.

It has to be done at professional grade level, and to a completeness that will assure no further problems down the road. I have a 100% success rate in bringing this repair off, having serviced many of these Pioneer boards/units, so I know it can be done.

Mr Bob

dzt52r

01-05-08, 10:45 PM

DJMjr

01-06-08, 12:18 AM

yazzer

01-07-08, 05:10 PM

Mr Bob,
Has anybody asked you about coming to the Twin Cities in the past six weeks?
...
we could split your airfare. Thanks, Dan

I have a Pioneer 510 that I repaired myself. I then cleaned the outer lenses (it made a big difference).

I gave Mr Bob money through PayPal, and plan on having him give me a phone consultation for inner-lens cleaning and some calibration tips. If there are a few people in the Twin Cities, Minnesota area that want to get together and split airfare, I could probably be talked into having my TV cleaned and calibrated professionally by Mr Bob.

Ken
Apple Valley, MN

NOTE: Not to take business from Mr Bob, but if he doesn't make it out to Minnesota, I could offer some assistance (not professional like Mr Bob) on fixing, cleaning and calibrating. I've repaired my PS board, cleaned my outer lenses, and made some calibration in the service menu.

Mr Bob

01-09-08, 10:17 AM

Hi,
I have an Elite 510. Little more than 7 years old. I started having the tv go out. No picture, no sound. Once in a while I see the blue flash that a lot of people describe, most times I don't it just goes black. Turning the tv off for some time usually fixes the problem and it will come on a play normal. This is a sporadic issue. I can;t count on any amount of time between episodes, but it is happening more frequently now than when it started.

Does anyone have any ideas on this? Am I dealing with the same board issues that others have? I don't know where you are all from, but does anyone know Whom in the Harrisburg, PA area can address this. I don't feel comfortable trying to fix this myself.

Any advice, info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanx,

Bill

Please turn your set OFF NOW, and don't use it again until fixed. Otherwise you are risking more serious damage.

You seem to have exactly what this thread is all about, and resoldering your PS board is your first line of defense, which usually does the trick 100%. But the whole board needs the attention, not just one or 2 areas.

Send it to me or have a local tech fix it, but if you do, don't let him skate on doing just a few suspect areas. If you send it to me I'll do it right. Every board sent to me so far has worked flawlessly from then on, once reinstalled back in its set.

Contact me about how much it will cost, and where to send it.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

01-09-08, 10:21 AM

Mr Bob,
Has anybody asked you about coming to the Twin Cities in the past six weeks? That is, has anybody else besides me inquired about having you come to Minneapolis/St Paul since you and I last spoke about my PRO-710HD a while back? I am still interested in having you come here to do some repair (soldering?) and cleaning etc. since my set hasn't been touched inside in the past 6 years. Anyway, I am still wishing somebody else here would like your services so we could split your airfare. Thanks, Dan

I would be glad to come out and do a few sets. Remember that simple optics cleanings can flesh out a calibration tour real good, even if that's all that gets done. Would need at least half a dozen if that's all that gets done, of course.

In this case we already have 2 participants right here, for full cals. But some optics cleanings would help out all present participants on the travel expenses. Climb on board...

Build it and I will come -

;)

Mr Bob

Rudmeister

01-13-08, 11:04 PM

Hi All,

Add me to the list. I have a pro-710hd that had the flash\shut down issue. With the help of this thread it is now fixed. Here's the kicker. My wife did the soldering. She had worked for Belkin in Taiwan at one point and is profecient at soldering. Plus her 32 year old eyes are better then my 50 year old ones.

Thanks to all:)

Mr Bob

01-14-08, 12:12 AM

Rudmeister

01-21-08, 10:23 PM

Well it's been a week and no problems. As for the cleaning I had to replace the mirror several years ago since it had broken when I moved and I thoroughly cleaned it then and also did another cleaning now. I always suggest to people that the best possible big screen picture is either a rear or front projection. In my opinion the flat screens just aren't there yet.

Mr Bob

01-22-08, 09:17 AM

Well it's been a week and no problems. As for the cleaning I had to replace the mirror several years ago since it had broken when I moved and I thoroughly cleaned it then and also did another cleaning now.

It's good that you cleaned the mirror, but the lenses need it even worse by now.

And the deeper optics cleaning op covers 6 additional surfaces that are also dirty in there.

A complete optics cleaning at your set's age is an absolute must. That 30KV in there really does a number on those surfaces, in terms of static cling. It turns them into powerful dust magnets, they literally suck the dust OUT of the air, onto them.

Mr Bob

eastwest

01-24-08, 11:53 PM

If there are a few people in the Twin Cities, Minnesota area that want to get together and split airfare, I could probably be talked into having my TV cleaned and calibrated professionally by Mr Bob.

I, too, would be be interested in splitting costs for a house call by Mr. Bob. My 8-year old 510 suffers from intermittent brightness problems, green saturation and occasional brief picture loss followed by a loud pop. Any suggestions of potential issues would be appreciated.

Pete
Roseville, MN

Mr Bob

01-25-08, 05:12 AM

I, too, would be be interested in splitting costs for a house call by Mr. Bob. My 8-year old 510 suffers from intermittent brightness problems, green saturation and occasional brief picture loss followed by a loud pop. Any suggestions of potential issues would be appreciated.

Pete
Roseville, MN

Your set needs the complete PS board resolder that I am specializing in these days, on my crusade to save all the CRT RPTVs I can. I just accomplished that again yesterday for a guy in Ft. Worth, and then calibrated it to the full, and I will repair another Elite tomorrow. Today I did a nearly full calibration on a 510 for a guy in Colleyville.

It takes a day and a half for the whole meal deal on an Elite, when the repair is part of it. But WELL worth it, both of the Texans I have seen so far on this trip are overjoyed to have their sets back again and looking BETTER than new. Both sets so far have been very very dark and have needed the Screen trimpot goose and rebalance before the redo of the grayscale, which happens a lot with the 510/610/710 series. After this increase in the current to the guns, plus the in-depth optics cleaning, the brightness they throw out is just blazing - it's off the map.

Keep the participants coming, let's put this trip on the map. I am in Dallas right now, to be home Sunday, unless other owners here or closeby chime in and keep me here a couple more days -

Mr Bob

peeker

01-27-08, 03:01 PM

I can vouch for Mr. Bob's work. I was the third house on his Texas trip. Had a lot of work done including: Repair work on the power supply board; deep optics cleaning; Overscan reduction on 1080i; calibration for three scan rates 1080i, 480p, 480i (which includes a lot!). I'm a guy who has sold technology for over 16 years, it truely takes an expert to do the work Bob performed.

For a well trained and well experienced Bob, it took him 12 hours of work to get a VERY nice looking picture. The best part is he will educate you along the way. Now I know how to properly get to the optics and clean them myself, (without scratching them). Watching him belabor over the convergence for hours on end gave me a real sense of the experience he has. He is a stickler for details and will ensure that your picture is the best it can be before he leaves.

He was going to show me things within the service menu, although I passed knowing that I would get in there and screw up the picture after paying him to fix it.

If you are considering bringing Bob to your town, it is well worth the trip to restore your Pioneer Elite to a "better than store bought" quality. It cost me a third of what it could have cost to replace the set with a new 55-60" LCD and I now have a better set that before!

Scott

Mr Bob

01-27-08, 03:03 PM

jdturo

01-27-08, 08:35 PM

also 510 problems, spoke to Mr Bob couple days ago was waiting for him to come back from Dallas trip so I could try and send my ps board for complete soldering.When this is completed, would any EAST COAST(NJ,NY,PA,),Elite owners be interested in getting him here to do some work on their TV,s...... Splitting the costs evenly, the more we have the easier it is for everybody.Thanks

rmcgowen

01-28-08, 02:56 AM

Any one in Denver area interested in a calibration tour? I have a 510 that could use some work. I would like to have it done right. The last guy got the color right, but not the overscan or convergence and didn't clean the optics.

Mr Bob

01-30-08, 03:04 AM

Some shots from Scott (Peeker), at the recent Dallas job, reviewed by him above. Just repaired, cleaned and calibrated Elite 510, 8 years old -

Starting with Elizabeth Berkley, on CSI - that's right, star of Showgirls -

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/8573/scottpeekiicsimiami2un9.jpg

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/8696/scottpeekiiicsimiamiyw5.jpg

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/3449/scottpeekigiantspackersut6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

macav

02-01-08, 06:51 AM

Mr Bob

02-01-08, 02:18 PM

Bob
Well, I am Back, I had my PS soldered back in Dec as the set was shutting down about every hour. I did not get it fixed right away. I hope that does not hurt me in the long run. The repair shop only worked on a few spots on the board. Now today, the set just shut down. It will not go on at all. The green light comes on and one second later it shuts down. In looking at the board I noticed the red light was on in the PS board. I removed the fuses and noticed the 5 V has blown. Now I dont remember which fuses go in what slot? I will try replacing the fuses tonight, if it blows do you still recommend sending the PS board to you? If so which screws do I removed to get the board out? Someone stated that you could remove only one screw to get the whole board out.
Please email me your address and paypal account in preparation .
Any help on what fuses go where? I have 3 in total.
tom
twg58@wowway.com

If one of your 5A fuses blew, then chances are your conv bd has problems also and needs its ICs replaced. This kind of thing happens a lot when owners continue to use their sets while hurt, which I have advised owners NOT to do, many times on this thread. I have also repeatedly advised against spot repairs on these boards. The entire board had the bad solder used on it, in production. If a lot of conns are not bad yet, more will be within a year or 2.

I realize that many who are tuning into this thread are doing so for the first time, and are feeling just a little daunted at the thought of reading this entire thread! So just for brevity, DON'T USE YOUR SET ONCE IT HAS STARTED GOING INTERMITTENT ON YOU. Worse things often happen, like this, when you do.

AND the resolder op has to be done on the entire PS board on anything that goes anywhere in there, that was done as the original solder job. That means that aside from the test points and heat sinks and the gray wires that were added later, and a couple of the big transistors that show brown transparent rosin on them - indicating that these solder conns were done later and not part of the original job, and are still bright and gleaming and shiny like they are supposed to be - everything else in there on the PS bd needs to be resoldered. You'll see a stark contrast between the dull and lifeless solder on the PS board, vs. the bright and gleaming solder on these other joints that were soldered later. Both were from the same timeframe. One set of conns has lasted, the other has not. Gleaming and shiny is what the PS board conns should still look like, and they don't. Such conns are degenerative, like needed dental work. Which never gets better on its own either.

If damaged, the conv bd MAY show a red light as being damaged and then again it may not, because of the blown fuse on the PS bd. In any case both boards prolly now need work.

Why on earth did you take all of them out, instead of checking them one at a time? Don't ever do that when doing the deeper optics cleaning op, or you'll have to refocus the lenses all over again, since you will remove all of them at once and then not know which went where. There are simple ways to not get into that bind, one of which is to keep things where they are, and do things one at a time, and finish before going on to the next one.

The board has markings to tell you the amperage of each fuse. That should tell you where they need to go, when you put them back in. If one does not show anything inside the glass because its filled with something, don't worry, it's just a glass fuse and an all glass replacement fuse will do in there just fine.

Please contact me directly for the info requested -

Phone or email is best, NOT pm. I just sent a copy of this response to your email link, above.

Send me your phone number and we can continue this live -

Thanks -

Mr Bob