Pioneer Elite Pro-510 problem [Text View] - Page 6

Mr Bob

02-12-08, 11:18 PM

I'm in Chicago - figure Bob would probably fly through there on the way to MN. What kind of dollars are we talking about for a repair? I'm having the exact same problems as many in this thread - 710HD powers up and works sometimes, but more often than not recently, the green light briefly flickers at power and then goes red and I have no picture.

Quite frankly I'm pretty close to buying a plasma to put on the wall - but am frustrated that I spent about $7000 on this television in 2000 or so. I didn't expect to get just eight years out of it.

Mr. Bob, would you consider traveling to the Chicago area? I'm not sure I'm confident enough to get the board out without frying it/myself.

thanks,

danbrew

danbrew@hotmail.com

I did a Chicago tour last year, would be glad to come back again.

If you remove the PS board from your set and send it to me, I charge $275 plus you pay all the shipping. $285 if you want to use paypal. If you want phone coaching on how to remove it without frying yourself, that costs $85/hr.

If you fly me in I will do it all, including a complete cleaning and calibration on your set, which runs $350 instead for the repair, plus the regular costs for everything else. Did it numerous times in your area last year. You're not the only one wanting to defend such a substantial investment! Not to mention how incredibly good they look when I am done with them! All my owners on all my tours last year were absolutely ecstatic about getting a brand new looking set, from their old one. Those who had me do the overscan reduction got an even better than new looking set in the bargain.

If you send your board to me, it is required that before you remove the board you turn the set on one last time and verify that it produces a stable, coherent picture. Then turn it off immediately, before it has time to warm up or have any adverse reactions, and proceed to removing it.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

02-12-08, 11:30 PM

for the 3rd time,the 1st time early in the thread replaced P/S board,then back in '06 {page 19} the STK's went,now they may have gone again ? same problems,service lights on both the p/s board and convergence board. set won't come on {and I'm not forcing it} I just reordered the same parts as last time but I have to look for those fuses again.....6.3 amp and the 5 amp GMA F type {anyone have parts #'s for those} :mad:

I swore up and down the next time I'd get a flat screen....but when my set is running I like it allot and if this gets me a few more years......{thats why I ordered 4 stk's this time :D}

Those fuses should be readily available at Radio Shack. Or at many online retailers of such things.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

02-12-08, 11:33 PM

Bob
Well, I am Back, I had my PS soldered back in Dec as the set was shutting down about every hour. I did not get it fixed right away. I hope that does not hurt me in the long run. The repair shop only worked on a few spots on the board. Now today, the set just shut down. It will not go on at all. The green light comes on and one second later it shuts down. In looking at the board I noticed the red light was on in the PS board. I removed the fuses and noticed the 5 V has blown. Now I dont remember which fuses go in what slot? I will try replacing the fuses tonight, if it blows do you still recommend sending the PS board to you? If so which screws do I removed to get the board out? Someone stated that you could remove only one screw to get the whole board out.
Please email me your address and paypal account in preparation .
Any help on what fuses go where? I have 3 in total.
tom
twg58@wowway.com

What's the latest?

Mr Bob

billfish33

02-16-08, 02:39 AM

I tested my fuses with my multimeter set to 200 ohms.
I get something,it's not zero.....
Does this mean the fuses are fine ?,
I do have extras I found from the last time this happened !

Also:
What's your take on the fan idea ?,would this help ? I only got 1.5 years on these STK's ?

I'll be shipping my board to a buddy in the morning for chip replacement {going to do all 4 again}

Mr Bob

02-16-08, 09:00 PM

danbrew

02-16-08, 10:51 PM

Spoke with Bob for about half an hour today - very easy to talk with, helped me figure out how to get the PS board out without frying it, myself, or breaking anything. Nice.

If any of you in the midwest are thinking of having Bob come out to help you with your set, to perform a cleaning/calibration, do drop me a note at danbrew@hotmail.com - I'd gladly go in on the costs as it's pretty clear my 710 could use some attention.

thanks,

danbrew

billfish33

02-17-08, 03:34 PM

No track record on whether a fan will help or not.

All 4? There are only 2 conv ICs in there. 4 would be to have 2 in stock for next time.

Mr Bob

Bob:

Well I did buy an extra 2 STK's for next time,but I was referring to the 2 smaller chips also mounted on the heatsink !
I did these last time as well.

I spoke to my friend yesterday,who is doing the work again for me ,and said he's leaning toward a fan that would come on at a certain temp !
thermo/activated.

sounds like a real good idea to me !!

the only thing that can scew this whole plan up......
is if the chips aren't the problem, I have the same exact symptoms as the last time,except for the blown fuses {I didn't force the set to come on when it shut down,where last time I tried to turn it on}

colton91

02-17-08, 09:40 PM

Mr. Bob,
If your trip to the Twin Cities is still pending, I would like to have my 6 yr old 610 cleaned and repaired. It has been acting up for about a year.

Let me know.

Thanks,

Joe

Mr Bob

02-18-08, 08:47 AM

I know this is a Pioneer thread, but I think it's important to stay clear on just what CRT is capable of, esp. if you are having problems with your set and are contemplating buying new. These shots are from my Mit 73" triple gun CRT, just like yours. For the fidelity of screenshots on computer monitors, pics from your 510/610/710s can look just as good as these, once your sets have been fully cleaned and calibrated.

I think you really should keep your set going, and these shots help keep in focus as to why. None of the new modalities can do better blacks than CRT, and few even approach what CRT can do, in that arena.

The crispness speaks for itself, and it's a natural crispness, not an artificial one. This is Y Pb Pr component, from my Dish VIP 622 DVR. Component is all I use, don't even have HDMI hooked up on my system.

HD DVD looks even better.

Mr Bob

Knight Rider

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/9717/21808knightriderontosh0fc4.jpg[/URL]

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6820/21808knightriderontosh0vk5.jpg[/URL]

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/8831/21808knightriderontosh0ho9.jpg[/URL]

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/896/21808knightriderontosh0bi4.jpg[/URL]

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/5149/21808knightriderontosh0zx3.jpg[/URL]

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/2344/21808knightriderontosh0rx9.jpg[/URL]

Lena Headey - Sarah Conner Chronicles (was also Queen of Sparta in 300)

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/2540/21808knightriderontosh0es0.jpg[/URL]

copenhaver1

02-18-08, 10:36 AM

Mr Bob

Any chance you have a trip planned to Austin, Texas? My TV is now blowing the two fuses on the PS Board. I am a summing that it is the Convergence assembly, Where can i buy the ICs for this?

Mr Bob

02-18-08, 01:20 PM

Mr Bob

Any chance you have a trip planned to Austin, Texas? My TV is now blowing the two fuses on the PS Board. I am a summing that it is the Convergence assembly, Where can i buy the ICs for this?

I was just in Texas for a tour, would love to go back. Send me a plane ticket, I'll bring the proper parts with me. I fly out of OAK.

Union Electronics has excellent track record on their STK 392-180's. Electronix.com has them too, but the prices are lower, which makes me steer clear of there.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

02-18-08, 01:23 PM

Mr. Bob,
If your trip to the Twin Cities is still pending, I would like to have my 6 yr old 610 cleaned and repaired. It has been acting up for about a year.

Let me know.

Thanks,

Joe

At present I have had inquiries about the Twin Cities, but nobody has yet stepped up to the plate and said he would be the organizer. Would you like to be that person? I fly out of OAK in the late morning.

I'll be glad to travel, as soon as the trip gets off the ground. Remember, the relatively dirt cheap optics cleaning op is a great way to flesh out a calibration tour with participants who are not desiring a complete calibration.

Mr Bob

eastwest

02-18-08, 08:53 PM

To: DJMjr (Dan), yazzer (Ken), colton91(Joe)
From: eastwest (Pete)

I recently contacted Mr. Bob and he remains agreeable to a Twin Cities visit. He reminded me its up to his customers to coordinate the trip.

Please confirm your interest in splitting travel expenses for Mr. Bob by posting to this message board. I recommend scheduling the trip in early March, before HD NCAA and baseball broadcasts begin. For example, roundtrip airfare from San Francisco for March 6 – 11 can be had for $185 on Sun Country, plus four nights hotel and meals.

Let’s get this done.
Pete
Roseville, MN

colton91

02-18-08, 09:25 PM

I'm in. Thanks, Pete. How about the rest of you?

Mr Bob

02-18-08, 10:54 PM

To: DJMjr (Dan), yazzer (Ken), colton91(Joe)
From: eastwest (Pete)

For example, roundtrip airfare from San Francisco for March 6 – 11 can be had for $185 on Sun Country, plus four nights hotel and meals.

Let’s get this done.
Pete
Roseville, MN

Remember, I fly out of OAK, departing in late morning, between 10am and noon. If you want me to fly out of SFO or San Jose, there would be additional expenses for having to go quite a bit farther away to either of those airports. As it is, for OAK you guys would only be responsible for the minor extra cost of the shuttles between my place and the airport each way, at $25 each.

Flights also (obviously!) don't need to be first class, but they do need to be nonstops, unless totally unavailable, in which case some lost production time on my part would have to be taken into account. I am totally OK on a couch or a guest room to avoid hotel expenses, and if you guys do the driving there won't be any rental car expenses to worry about.

$185 RT is a steal!

;)

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

02-19-08, 11:59 AM

Night sky - try THAT with bulb driven fixed pixel! Or dirty optics...

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7627/21808knightriderontosh0vg1.jpg

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/1073/21808knightriderontosh0fh4.jpg

Scooby Doo commercial - notice the head's moving on farthest right side guy, 2 images of his left hand, from 2 different frames -

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6059/21808knightriderontosh0dm5.jpg

Corrupt sheriff - blurry from slo-mo, to keep the pause bar outa there -

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/9561/21808knightriderontosh0op2.jpg

Doug G

02-19-08, 05:25 PM

Mr Bob - Glad to see you still keeping these gorgeous CRT sets running. I just did my annual optics cleaning and grayscale touch-up and am back in love with my 8-year old Elite 510. I have a question I was hoping you could comment on. I realize this slightly OT but I wasn't sure I'd get any useful comments in the calibration forum since this set is such a dinosaur (i.e. T-Rex :D) these days.

I can never seem to determine what the appropriate output for a 100 IRE field in terms of ft-L should be? Guy Kuo recommends 8-10 ft-L for RPTVs in the FAQ thread but when I turn down my contrast to min I still get 13ft-L of light using a 100IRE field! Several comments I've read from varying sources I've found seem to range from using between 22-28 ft-L, is this in line with you're experience/preferences?

Thanks and keep up the excellent work!

DJMjr

02-20-08, 11:49 AM

colton91(Joe)
Pete and I are having Bob come to the Twin Cities for sure and soon. please check your private email connected with this forum.

DJMjr

02-20-08, 11:35 PM

colton91 - you have another new private message.
Anybody else in the Twin Cities interested in having Mr. Bob service your TV? We are bringing him here in the next four weeks and we need to buy his return ticket up front. So if you want in, and he needs to stay a day or two longer in order to service your TV, we need to know now before we purchase his round trip airfare. Contact "eastwest" or "DJMjr" so we can work your service call into the Twin Cities itinerary. Thanks.

Mr Bob

02-21-08, 01:01 PM

Excellent article on the BluRay format war victory, with quotes from heads of state - in the industry, that is...

Also an excellent link to converters for HDCP compliant HDMI to component and/or RGB, for use with older CRT tech, from before DVI/HDMI came to become standard equipment.

Enjoy! (Sorry, could not find a way to just make this a link, it was from an email sent to me - )

Mr Bob

HD-DVD DEAD! BLU-RAY WINS!
The format war is over! Rest in peace HD DVD!

At a news conference held in Japan on Tuesday afternoon, Toshiba Corporation president and CEO Atsutoshi Nishida announced:

“We have reviewed the overall strategy for the HD DVD and concluded that it is best that we not further develop, manufacture, and market HD DVD players and recorders. This was a very difficult decision to make...but when we thought about the trouble we would cause to consumers and our partners, we decided it was not right for us to keep going with such a small presence. We carefully assessed the long-term impact of continuing the so-called ‘next-generation format war’ and concluded that a swift decision will best help the market develop. While we are disappointed for the company and more importantly, for the consumer, the real mass market opportunity for high definition content remains untapped and Toshiba is both able and determined to use our talent, technology and intellectual property to make digital convergence a reality.”

Toshiba was the sole supplier of HD DVD players and the founder/leader of the HD DVD format. Without Toshiba, there is no HD DVD. Toshiba will cease production of its HD DVD players and recorders immediately and close out the business by the end of March. The company is expected to continue to support the installed base of HD DVD players.

Back in August 2007 Paramount and DreamWorks Studios were paid $150 to go HD DVD exclusive for an 18-month period. With Toshiba no longer in the HD DVD game, both studios are now free release Blu-ray titles without penalty as that contract is now null and void. While they always had an out clause in their contract, they no longer have to exercise that right and pay a penalty. Expect an announcement from both studios very soon.

Universal Studios Home Entertainment also had a HD DVD-exclusive contract with HD DVD right from the start. They are also now free to start producing content on Blu-ray Disc, and in fact, shortly after the Toshiba announcement the company's president Craig Kornblau offered the following statement:

"The path for widespread adoption of the next-generation platform has finally become clear. The emergence of a single, high-definition format is cause for consumers, as well as the entire entertainment industry, to celebrate. While Universal values the close partnership we have shared with Toshiba, it is time to turn our focus to releasing new and catalog titles on Blu-ray."

With this messy expensive war finally over, we can only hope that the Blu-ray pick up rate increases greatly, creating even cheaper players and software to give us the home theater enthusiasts the best possible image quality at home!

We've always said that HD on disc (be it Blu-ray or HD DVD) offers a substantial increase in picture and sound quality over standard DVD for use in home theater. It finally bridges the gap between commercial theaters and what we have at home. In most cases a properly set up home theater featuring HD content will easily surpass the experience you have in commercial theaters. It is that good!

How is Blu-ray / HD DVD better than standard DVD?

6 times the resolution: 1920x1080 instead of 720x480!
Much wider colour range: The colour space for HD is broader than with standard definition resulting in greener greens, redder reds, etc. Colours that you've never thought possible are now visible!
Increased sound quality with new audio formats: Standard DVD only provides 448 Kbit/s for Dolby Digital and typically 750Kbit/s for DTS. Blu-ray offers up completely lossless audio at rates greater than 6 Mbit/s. Even if your receiver cannot decode the new lossless formats you will still benefit as the base Dolby digital and DTS rates are increased to 640 and 1500 Kbit/s respectively. This is a 43-50% increase in sound information without even changing your receiver!
If you've been holding out adding HD DVD or Blu-ray to your home theater setup, now is time to do it. Blu-ray momentum is picking up fast so you can now buy into Blu-ray Disc technology without worrying who is going to win the format war.

Likewise, if you're looking for a deal, HD DVD hardware and discs will continue to work for years to come and the prices are as low as ever. For example, Amazon is having a limited time 50% off sale on over 150 HD DVD titles!

For best image/sound quality, HD DVD and Blu-ray players should be hooked up using HDMI. To add HDMI to older displays, converters are available that work up to 1080p and beyond.

http://www.curtpalme.com/CRTforSale.shtm#Marketplace

Need help connecting the wires? See our new section FAQ: Hooking it all up!

http://www.curtpalme.com/CRTPrimer_17.shtm

Mr Bob

02-21-08, 01:12 PM

Doug G -

Can't tellya. I do it all by eye.

If you are not suffering grayscale being nonlinear, your convergence being torn apart on different colors, or your focus blooming, then it's not set too high. However, longevity of your guns is another issue.

If set too high, you will be prematurely aging the phosphors on your guns.

The light level of the local movie theater at the mall is the correct FL level for a CRT tech viewing room. With nice, dim ambient lighting around, like in the movie theaters, you should still have a blazing picture at your screen on high light level material, and be able to see shadow detail effortlessly during dimmer scenes.

Mr Bob

Doug G

02-22-08, 08:52 AM

Mr Bob

02-22-08, 09:52 AM

Mr Bob - Thanks, I had a feeling this was more a subjective or circumstantial setting than an objective one. DOH!

At first I did back contrast way down since despite my R and G levels being dead on from 20 thru 100 IRE, the B had a non-linear characteristic where its too high below 30 IRE and above 80 IRE, and too low in between those points. But lowering this didn't flatten out the curve and no amount of tweaking I've done has either. I verified and adjusted the no-load black cutoff to exactly 180V on all 3 guns, R and G were really close but the B was at like 209V and even after adjustment to the proper level it made no difference. (Not sure if this variation is due to new B tube I replaced about 2 years ago.) I guess maybe these B phosphors are just by their nature less linear than R and G? The only other thing I didn't try was de-focusing the electrical control but since everything I've read indicates this should enhance brightness, I figured it would only further exaggerate the non-linearity I see. Blue is only low/high less than 10% so its not really enough to bother me, especially for a set coming up on 9 years old! My color temp tracks within 500K of 6500K between 20 and 90 IRE which is a momentus improvement to the eyeball grayscale job I did after replacing the B tube.

So in the end, after deciding the lowered contrast was too low (~21 ft-L), I raised it quite a bit (~35 ft-L) and then realized it was too high, then ended up just 1 tick above where it had been set by Jim Doolittle during my initial calibration about 5 years go (~26 ft-L). All that work to end up in the same place, don't I feel silly.

So in the end I'm loving my set again! I used to spend more time watching my Pioneer 4270 plasma lately but now that the picture has been restored I'm heavily favoring the Elite 510 once again!

Sorry to get slightly OT, I appreciate the comments and now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion.... :)

Could be that the advice you had on the FL levels was for front projection. Rear projection via fresnel/lenticular tech - CRT RPTVs - gathers the light and beams it at you, strengthening the light level significantly by so doing. Thus CRT RPTV light levels will be significantly higher than reflected front pj levels, and even more than rear ceiling pj designs with just a frosted screen. The fresnel/lenticular combo is a very powerful light gathering design, and you don't find it in the new fixed pixel stuff at all. It allows for daytime viewing of video material, and nighttime viewing with all the lights on, something you really can't do with front projection at all. Not the ideal way to view video, but we can't always be veiwing our video in the most ideal of conditions.

Jim Doolittle is a man you can trust. Once while we were shootin' the **** at CES he pointed out to me the pattern AFTER the pluge pattern on VE. It is the one with the pluge, but also balls to the wall 100 IRE white on one almost full side of the pic, used to make sure of where your btb stripe - blacker than black - winds up with bright white material on your screen as well. Should be just visible.

Best br is when the btb stripe is just visible on the second pattern, and clearly visible on the regular pluge pattern. It will be different with different displays, depending on the capacity of each for achieving that range successfully. The more expensive the display, the more vast the range.

I also took his advanced front pj course after my first ISF training. As promised, he DID show us/me something I hadn't been clearly aware of before - that a pic needs to neatly reside in the CENTER of the CRT face, NOT hitting the screen at an angle as it goes thru the lens. Was doing great on my front pj cals, and this observation was subtle but powerful and allowed me to do even better. It comes into play a lot more on 16x9 material these days than the 4x3 material of yesteryear. And if your red or blue gun is not aimed correctly side to side, mechanically, in a front pj, and your side to side positioning is taking up the slack, causing the light path to not be going straight thru the lens.

He da man, you listen to him.

CRT RPTV tech can have nonlinearities in the varying colors, and I have found that the Pioneer Elite series does a strange thing on blue which is prolly exactly what you're talking about. You can get the grays just right and then have too much blue in your blacks, at which point you have to dial down the blue cutoff a couple of clicks to get rid of that. Same thing used to happen in the greens of the Mits's, before their HDreadys.

Getting the blacks clearly black is the best thing to do, even if it makes your mid grays a bit golder and thus slightly less blue. Same is true for the greens in the Mits's, where the grays need to wind up slightly more magenta than they should. The blacks are what need to be prioritized.

On that one I called ISF's Joel Silver directly - back on the Mit green thing, before HD - and he said the the same thing.

Blacks rule in grayscale, everything secondary to that has to stay second to that.

Mr Bob

Doug G

02-22-08, 11:22 AM

I have found that the Pioneer Elite series does a strange thing on blue which is prolly exactly what you're talking about. You can get the grays just right and then have too much blue in your blacks, at which point you have to dial down the blue cutoff a couple of clicks to get rid of that.

Mr Bob - You hit the nail right on the head! Initially I figured the blue at 20 IRE and below wouldn't be visible so I set the cut to get perfect grayscale from 30-80 and sure enough all my blacks had a strong blue tint. I dialed it down just as you suggested so that the blue tint is no longer visible. Glad I did the right thing!

Mr Bob

02-22-08, 02:22 PM

Mr Bob - You hit the nail right on the head! Initially I figured the blue at 20 IRE and below wouldn't be visible so I set the cut to get perfect grayscale from 30-80 and sure enough all my blacks had a strong blue tint. I dialed it down just as you suggested so that the blue tint is no longer visible. Glad I did the right thing!

See? Not all of us need color analyzers, with FL readouts and computer generated guidance on what to do about which color, etc...

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

02-24-08, 08:48 AM

Doesn't LOOK dead, does it?

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/2265/22308csiontosh003vm7.jpg[/URL]

Dean Cain, guest appearance

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6123/22308csiontosh009ep3.jpg[/URL]

jkeifer3

02-25-08, 12:23 PM

Mr Bob

02-25-08, 02:15 PM

Hello,

This is my first post on this forum and thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

I have a Pioneer PRO-710HD that has always had an issue with over-expansion of the raster in the vertical direction when the set is in the 1080i mode. This happens on all sources including Direct TV and Blu-ray. Operation at the lower resolutions seem fine. Is there anything I can do to adjust the raster myself? Are there any in-depth manuals or service menus available that might help.

Dr. Bob, if you are ever in the DC area I would be glad to utilize your services!

Cheers!

Joe

Was in DC last year on a tour, did cals in Leesburg and Countryside. Too bad I missed you! Fly me out, I'll take care of everything your set needs.

The vertical sizing on your set is evidently set too high, resulting in what you're seeing. I've seen that before, it's pretty common on those units. On those HD only locks in on Full, so we can trust that it's not an incorrect aspect ratio being chosen up. Observe a circle next time you see one, from an ABC or CBS logo or something. If it is more tall than it is wide, then only the vertical is off. If it's actually a true circle, then the entire geometry paradigm is overscanned, which is the most likely suspect, as that is the way they do it at the factory.

I can coach you in how to reduce that sizing, but corrections would need to happen after that, because reducing overscan on these babies is very valuable to do, but hoses your pic in the process. So the coaching would not end with the reduction of the overscan, but would have to extend to the corrections as well.

I am available for phone consultation, if you want to handle it that way. The service manual is available and would guide you thru it, but only explains things cursorily. It takes lots of experience with these units, to totally get it right. Pio throws you unexpected curves on their CRT sets, which are not covered in any manual.

Which of course is what I do...bat their curveballs out of the park -

:D

Send me your contact info and I will enter it into my customer book, flagged for DC. NOT by pm.
By phone or at my regular email address.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

02-26-08, 12:18 PM

Cameron

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/9/22508chroniclesontosh00ex8.jpg[/URL]

John

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/9303/22508chroniclesontosh00sj3.jpg[/URL]

Fiance

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7191/22508chroniclesontosh00cd2.jpg[/URL]

Sarah hurting over fiancé

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/7891/22508chroniclesontosh01zn4.jpg[/URL]

Mr Bob

02-28-08, 09:46 AM

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/5193/22508chroniclesontosh01kp6.jpg[/URL]

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6417/22508chroniclesontosh02us0.jpg[/URL]

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pitpro

03-01-08, 12:36 PM

Mr Bob

03-01-08, 02:28 PM

Mr Bob, danbrew-

I am in Northfield, IL (Northern Chicago suburb)
I just started having the flashing problem last week. (set also seems to have problems keeping the brightness or contrast levels during the flashing episodes)
Plus, on Comcast HD the bottom and top of my picture on most HD broadcasts is partially cut off, which never seemed right to me but didn't know what to do about it.
I also have a buddy that lives 1 mile from me that bought a 710 at the same time as me that is having dimness problems. How many responses have you gotten about AVS members wanting to pull this Bob in for a tour?
I'm down for it and I'm sure I could convince my buddy also.
I would want the full monty, mine's never been cleaned or calibrated.
Waiting for your reply.

Forgot to mention one other issue that's bothersome on my set. When the credits
for a movie for example start rolling on a grey/black backround I notice that there is a vertical band
right of center that runs from top of screen to bottom, light gray in color. What is this problem?
I never notice it when watching the set normally, just when the credits are rolling on
solid black/grey backround.

pitpro AT yahoo.com

I'm in for the duration, just like Sarah Conner -

:D

I'll be glad to do both sets of cities on the same trip.

Contact me directly and I'll put all of us on the Reply All ticket. At present I have asked that the trip happen in the 4th week of March, as the first 3 Saturdays/nights have something important going on for me, here coming up, plus tonight. If we can make the trip happen at the first of the week after the weekend of the 22, that would work best for me, and I'm free to be away for up to 10 days after that. Doing things this far in advance should get you guys some screamin' deals on the plane tickets.

Allow a full day for just a calibration that includes at least 1 overscan reduction, a day and a half for repair plus calibration with 1 o'scan redux. If you have both scanrates o'scan reduced, then allow a day and a half for that too, possibly 2 full days for that plus the repair.

The dimness problem is not in the PS bd, but in how the set loses brightness as it ages. I am seeing it in almost all the Elite sets I calibrate, in this series. It requires precision redoing of the Screen controls, which then requires precision realignment of the grayscale. All that is automatically included in my basic calibration package, and EVERY 510/610/710 I have done has responded 100% to that protocol, from then on delivering sizzling light levels in ideal home cinema (movie theater) lighting conditions, just like you used to have when only 6 months old. Your set is NOT worn out! It's only halfway thru its lifespan right now, with PLENTY of life left in it.

The PS bd repair is $350 stem to stern once I am on location at your set. For those of you reading this who want to send me the board and have me resolder it that way, it costs $275 - $285 if you use paypal - plus you take care of the shipping both ways. I just sent off the 8th or so board sent so far, all with 100% results back at each owner's end. Permanent repair. MY boards stay soldered!

The calibration has an entire menu of services you can choose from, which always stay the same, haven't raised my rates in years. I will be glad to send out a ready to go emailout with all that data in it, upon request. It's a long one, so please don't use it to reply, use a separate email for that. Just keep it for reference.

Mr Bob

pitpro

03-01-08, 04:40 PM

Do I understand this correctly? Overscan is the reason part of my picture is cutoff? Overscan reduction corrects this?
What about the vertical line I described?

ANYONE ELSE FROM CHICAGO AREA INTERESTED IN GETTING IN ON THIS? EMAIL pitpro AT yahoo.com(replace AT with @)

pitpro

03-01-08, 05:37 PM

As a side note, I was talking to a friend of a friend that also has a Pioneer 710, he says that all the west coast movie studios use this set as a studio monitor for movie production. Can anyone verify this?

siran808

03-01-08, 06:04 PM

PitPro,
I live in nearby Lake Zurich and might be interested in going in for Mr. Bob. I'm going to try to fix my 510 problem (same as everyone else - the TV shuts itself off) this evening. Even if it works the set isup for calibration. I'll reach out to you directly if I decide to join in.

Regards,
Siran808@hotmail.com

Mr Bob

03-01-08, 09:39 PM

Do I understand this correctly? Overscan is the reason part of my picture is cutoff? Overscan reduction corrects this?
What about the vertical line I described?

Yes, o'scan redux corrects this. It restores lost areas of video real estate out at your edges, and in the process gets you tighter, more dense resolution by jamming more pixels in, per square inch. You can then sit closer to your set than ever before, delivering a significantly larger, bigger picture to watch than ever before.

DK about the vertical line, perhaps it will be cured by the resoldering, can't say as I haven't seen that one before -

Mr Bob

prismagla

03-04-08, 07:57 PM

Mr Bob

03-04-08, 09:52 PM

I have one pro710, have changed them stk392-100 into 180, the convergence fitted well in full and full hd but in RGB 33k, there are two lines in the red grid and two in the green that does not allow me to fit well, and the screen is deformed below to the left
tank you

On Pios, you can't do the sm image structure work on RGB, it has to be done in sm on component. With component you can do anything needed - full geometry and convergence. On RGB I believe it defaults back to 480p in the structure dept. You can do RGB colorations in sm, but not structure work.

Whatever you do on component 1080i, will then automatically apply to RGB 1080i as far as the image structure goes. I believe it's impossible to have one deformed while the other is not, when both are displaying 1080i material.

However, if you are using HTPC and that's why you are implementing RGB, then you may have lots of work in your PC program to have to master.

Once your set has been aligned properly with a working STB or pattern generator, then the HTPC card needs to conform to THAT - not the other way around. HTPC has WAY too much variability built-in, to use as a master template for 1080i image structure.

Mr Bob

prismagla

03-05-08, 04:21 AM

On Pios, you can't do the sm image structure work on RGB, it has to be done in sm on component. With component you can do anything needed - full geometry and convergence. On RGB I believe it defaults back to 480p in the structure dept. You can do RGB colorations in sm, but not structure work.

Whatever you do on component 1080i, will then automatically apply to RGB 1080i as far as the image structure goes. I believe it's impossible to have one deformed while the other is not, when both are displaying 1080i material.

However, if you are using HTPC and that's why you are implementing RGB, then you may have lots of work in your PC program to have to master.

Once your set has been aligned properly with a working STB or pattern generator, then the HTPC card needs to conform to THAT - not the other way around. HTPC has WAY too much variability built-in, to use as a master template for 1080i image structure.

Mr Bob

I explain to you, in the way service, have fitted the whole convergence well in full, and in full hd, F and H in the grill, and the adjustment is perfect of 3 colors, and signs HD are seen very well, but when I connected the hd fury, recently there I took sign as RGB and the grill H was badly exact, but if I connect components the grill H it turns out to be exact.
I spread the grill tried to fit in RGB two of the red lines the first one and the second one of left to this right as like a snake and I cannot put straight lines, the rest they are straight well and also in RH SIZE the rest of the lines move with gentleness but in these two lines they do not move linearly and almost they do not move only are deformed
I have a theory that the STK that I put am not working well to 33k that is the frequency of RGB for being this of low cost, I am thinking to change them into a few original TOSHIBA and see if the problem is this, you that you think

Thank you

Mr Bob

03-05-08, 11:51 AM

I explain to you, in the way service, have fitted the whole convergence well in full, and in full hd, F and H in the grill, and the adjustment is perfect of 3 colors, and signs HD are seen very well, but when I connected the hd fury, recently there I took sign as RGB and the grill H was badly exact, but if I connect components the grill H it turns out to be exact.
I spread the grill tried to fit in RGB two of the red lines the first one and the second one of left to this right as like a snake and I cannot put straight lines, the rest they are straight well and also in RH SIZE the rest of the lines move with gentleness but in these two lines they do not move linearly and almost they do not move only are deformed
I have a theory that the STK that I put am not working well to 33k that is the frequency of RGB for being this of low cost, I am thinking to change them into a few original TOSHIBA and see if the problem is this, you that you think

Thank you

Possible. But I would go original Sanyo, not Toshiba.

Union Electronics has had real good luck with their 392-180s, have not had any significant failure rate at all. It's where I get mine.

Mr Bob

prismagla

03-05-08, 05:40 PM

Possible. But I would go original Sanyo, not Toshiba.

Union Electronics has had real good luck with their 392-180s, have not had any significant failure rate at all. It's where I get mine.

Mr Bob

I live in Barcelona, Spain, and here I can buy a STK392-150 of Sanyo, since I do not obtain 180 of a reliable dealer. I suppose that 150 it is better than 110
what defect is seen on screen when a stk is not of good quality? or is it only that they fail and do not work?

tank you

I follow this forum long ago and believe that you do a magnificent work helping to the people as me ;-)

Mr Bob

03-06-08, 12:30 PM

I live in Barcelona, Spain, and here I can buy a STK392-150 of Sanyo, since I do not obtain 180 of a reliable dealer. I suppose that 150 it is better than 110
what defect is seen on screen when a stk is not of good quality? or is it only that they fail and do not work?

tank you

I follow this forum long ago and believe that you do a magnificent work helping to the people as me ;-)

Thanks! Glad I can help.

The 150s are also significantly better than the 110s, and can be used very well if you can't find/get the 180s.

Longevity is really the only real issue here. I have used all types, and they all do the job of convergence just fine. But the 150s should have more of a chance at lasting the remaining life of your set. The original 110s from back then were just not built nearly as strong as the present day 150s and 180s are.

Same happened with the STK 4273s, used in the early models of Mit CRT RPTV and other brands. They were eventually replaced with the stronger - and in this case even thicker! - 4274s.

Mr Bob

billfish33

03-06-08, 01:56 PM

Mr Bob

03-06-08, 03:12 PM

I rechecked the fuses on the P/S board,they seemed OK ? {checked in the 200 ohm setting as well as sound setting},hooked everything back up and still got the 2 led lights.....
Then decided to replace all the fuses with new,and this time no led's and the set is up and running !!:D

Hope the fuses you changed were identical in amperage rating to what came out. DK why you got the results above, makes no sense, if they were working before, as your tests say...

I have 2 fans on order that should come next week !
ordered from coolerguys the cabcool 1201 kit {one exhaust near P/S board, and one intake onto the convergence board !}

Be sure the exhause fan is higher up than the intake fan -

From reading some of the newer posts.....,it seems as though there are better or newer style STK's ?? {unless I'm not reading it right ?}

I ordered the same part as the last time ? is there a better part for my elite 510 ?

See my post above for the best ICs to use on the 510/610/710 series.

Mr Bob

prismagla

03-06-08, 05:11 PM

Thanks! Glad I can help.

The 150s are also significantly better than the 110s, and can be used very well if you can't find/get the 180s.

Longevity is really the only real issue here. I have used all types, and they all do the job of convergence just fine. But the 150s should have more of a chance at lasting the remaining life of your set. The original 110s from back then were just not built nearly as strong as the present day 150s and 180s are.

Same happened with the STK 4273s, used in the early models of Mit CRT RPTV and other brands. They were eventually replaced with the stronger - and in this case even thicker! - 4274s.

Mr Bob

Fitting the convergence in the way H in a pair of corners the red one is deformed and does not allow adjustment however much I rise and under the values of adjustment it does not change, and this gives a red tone in the area when I reproduce movies, I had hope that there were the STK supposedly of low quality, and I have entrusted some of mark SANYO that come to me on Monday, but for what you say my problem it is not there, also in way H finds it hard to leave very much the completely straight lines and that degrades the quality of image, in other ways of screen if I fit very well quite, mysteries of the electronics I suppose, but I am quite demanding with the quality of image and I want to manage the best possible, My Pio alone has really 2 years of use, I buy it in 2000 but it has been 5 years without working, and is seen as piece of news, except the adjustment of convergence in HD, of corse :confused::confused::confused::confused:

prismagla

03-06-08, 05:56 PM

Mr Bob

03-07-08, 01:18 PM

please it looks at the photos and edges what is happening
IMAG0089.jpg below appear a few lines plucked out of range and it happens with 3 colors, the line does not occupy all the breadth

The set's internally gen'd grid can be used for lots of the geometry, but has nothing at the top and has scattered extra parts at the bottom. It leaves a lot to be desired.

Best way is to use it as much as you can - like getting the top and bottom box heights the same as the middles - and then go to an externally sent in grid, punching the Yellow button on the remote once inside the conv sm, to show the external info rather than the internal grid.

But yours needs a lot more work than that.

All the boxes need to be the same size, and this is a mammoth task, esp. when you have gotten them all out of whack so far, as is shown here. I don't see any problem with your ICs, don't think they are bad.

But your geometry is really hosed, and needs a very high level of intuitive/professional grade attention, to get right now. Those points all interact with each other, and have some very esoteric ways of being, that you can only begin to decipher after doing this job dozens of times, like I have. It is NOT for the faint of heart! If you had written down all your point values before you started, at least you could get back to where you started. Now it's anybody's guess. You can't just zero out point values on Pioneers and start over like you can on Mits's, doesn't work that way with Pioneer. You might find their reset in there, but I have never tried it and don't know if it would improve things or not. Might make them considerably worse.

I am available for phone consultation if you want to go that route. To tell you the truth, very few people on the continent would be capable of pulling this one off, and if you have no experience before now, you're not one of them. I and a few other old-time calibrators who cut their teeth on CRT tech will be able to pull this off, that's about it. Fly me in if you want to be sure to get it right.

Let me know how you'd like to proceed -

Mr Bob

vosseler

03-08-08, 12:04 AM

billfish33

03-08-08, 11:55 AM

Hope the fuses you changed were identical in amperage rating to what came out. DK why you got the results above, makes no sense, if they were working before, as your tests say...

Be sure the exhause fan is higher up than the intake fan -

See my post above for the best ICs to use on the 510/610/710 series.

Mr Bob

Bob:

Each fuse was changed with it's exact amp rating,{I ordered about 10 each the 1st time this happened}
wish I knew about the 180 series STK's, the next time this happens,I'll just order those !

Thanks

Mr Bob

03-08-08, 03:43 PM

Greetings. About two years ago I was one of the many who encountered the blue flash problem. Thanks to this forum I was able to remove the PS board and fix the unit myself. A few days ago, I noticed the picture very briefly distorting for the first few minutes after it was turned on. I thought the problem might be with the satellite tuner but after allowing it to cool down and powering it up three or four times, I realized it was the set, mainly because the third time I turned it on the screen shifted and I saw that dreaded blue colored flash again, however, this time it was accompanied by screen distortion and quickly snapped back to normal rather than the slow buildup that occurred before.

I once again came back to this forum and saw Mr. Bob's suggestion that the entire PS board be resoldered, save the test points and heat syncs, I proceeded to follow those instructions. The set came up and worked for a couple of days and then the distortion happened again (once) and the set quickly shut itself off. The red light was lit on the front but the set would not power up.

Again consulting this forum, I checked and found a blown 5A 125V fuse (the one with a paper label directly below the left hand row of power transistors) on the PS board. I also went through the entire board to make sure that there were no bridged solder connections. I cases where there was any doubt I used desoldering braid to remove and resolder the connections more cleanly. (I am a relatively experienced at soldering).

Now, when I plug the unit in I hear a faint, high pitched whistle for a few seconds and then a relay clicks and the power down red light illuminates on the PS board. After which I quickly unplugged the unit.

I checked and no other lights are coming on in the unit and I've gone over the PS board a few times to make sure I haven't missed any bridged connections. If there are any there, they aren't visible to the naked eye or an eye assisted with two magnifying glasses to make things REALLY big.

Any suggestions on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated.

- Tom V
Central NJ

If there were any bridged conns, the unit prolly wouldn't have powered on again at all until remedied. So I don't think you need to persist in that direction, you've done that one right.

Prolly just coincidental, from the timeframes you've mentioned, but I think your conv bd has gone down. It happens fairly frequently on CRT RPTV tech, no matter what the brand. I have seen it happen after reports of the PS bd problems, but also with none of those problems. It often happens just on its own. Those ICs are run awfully hard in there, they are literal workhorses in CRT tech.

The unit won't come on again if there is a blown 5A fuse and it goes to the conv circuit. Their protection sys sees to that. Try replacing that fuse with a good 5A F type. If it blows again, your conv ICs need to be replaced.

The red light on the conv bd won't come on if it's missing its plus or minus 24 volts, which go thru the 5A fuses to get there. If you're testing it with the 5A still blown, you'll stay stuck. Other brands/designs will allow the set to work with the conv voltage rails missing, Mit and Sony will show you a completely uncorrected conv paradigm with no sweat, unit will work fine except for the missing conv correction.

Not Pioneer. Designed differently.

If both rails are not hitting the conv bd intact, the unit won't turn on.

Mr Bob

vosseler

03-08-08, 05:53 PM

Mr Bob

03-08-08, 06:24 PM

So this is a bit of a mystery to me because I did replace the 5A fuse and still I'm not seeing any lights on the conv board and the 5A fuse is not blowing when I plug the unit back in. Will the fuse only blow if I try to power the display up as well? I haven't done that for fear of causing more damage (I have read this entire forum and have read, many times, your warnings). As soon as I see the power down light on the PS board, I unplug the unit.

I can also check to make sure the 24v is getting to the conv board if I know it's ok to leave the power up long enough to check. I don't want to cause further damage to the PS board but I also don't want to replace the conv board if the power isn't getting there.

If replacing the board will do the job, I'm happy to do that, however, I checked the Pioneer parts web site and see no convergence part listed at all. Do you know where I can get it or what the part number is from Pioneer?

Thanks for the assistance Mr. Bob. I'll be happy to make a deposit into your paypal account for the assistance. You're a rare find for those of us who are willing to get elbow deep into multi-thousand dollar electronics. :-)

- Tom

Do NOT replace the conv bd! Starting from absolute scratch on these units is not an option for most people, I wouldn't even want to do it myself unless absolutely necessary. I have my hands full every time I do an overscan reduction, I would be challenged the same way if I had to start completely from scratch.

If the conv bd is malfunctioning/needs repair, replace the ICs before trying anything else.

The unit has to be turned on before you'll see any voltage at the plus or minus 24v rails. Just don't keep it on for too long, we don't want it warming up at all. A minute or 2 should be adequate to see what's happening in there, without causing the expansion of the connections that warming up the set would cause.

Mr Bob

vosseler

03-12-08, 09:12 PM

So I ordered two new ICs for the conv board and installed them, put everything back together and the set still won't come on. Still have the red power light on the front of the unit and the power down light on the back.

I decided to do some troubleshooting on the PS board (which I should have done first) and found that if I leave the blue and white power connector off and plug the unit and I don't get the problem. Hook that back up and I hear a high pitched whistle and after a few seconds a relay kicks and the power down light comes on.

Since there's no voltage going to the conv board and this wire appears to go to the guns, I'm thinking the problem is more serious than one of the three boards that are discussed in this forum, no?

Any ideas on what I can try next?

- Tom

Mr Bob

03-13-08, 04:50 AM

vosseler

03-13-08, 08:05 AM

Mr Bob

03-13-08, 01:56 PM

Only the PS board has the red light after the relay kicks and that one connector is connected. Disconnect the connector with the blue and white wires (labeled DIRECT TO SW) and the red light doesn't come on when I plug in the unit.

Looks to me like this goes to the guns but I have to take the front of the set apart to get a better look.

- Tom

Have never experimented with that conn on this set. Can't say. Prolly more than this thread will cover.

The conv bd can have problems and not show its trouble light, if the bd is not getting its proper voltages. Have you checked it for its plus and minus 24v? I'd check at the PS bd first, then if they are there as they should be, check for them at the conv bd. You may have only 1 second to check for them during turn-on then power down/protection.

Double check all fuses, esp. the 5A's that deliver the plus/minus 24v's.

Mr Bob

roberson7

03-13-08, 10:10 PM

Mr Bob

03-14-08, 12:13 PM

I am new to this forum, so hope this posts OK... I have spent MANY hours reading this thread on the Pio. Elite PS board problems, and I have a slightly different new twist: 3 years ago, I found this thread when searching for answers on my "Blue flash" problem. The PS board was totally resoldered and the problem was fixed. Now--jump ahead 3 years- I start getting the loud POP & power down. I come back here and find it's the PS board (again). SO--the board was totally resoldered AGAIN. Problem solved, BUT - NOT SO FAST! Now I'm getting an intermittent "shake" in the picture. It's a fairly "light" shaking, seemingly more pronounced maybe in the upper half or even in quadrants?? It's hard to describe, and is too intermittent to get a good read on it. The shakiness is present on graphics, still pics, moving video, etc., and is present on all video inputs. It sometimes lasts seconds or minutes, and sometimes not again for several days.
Any Ideas??:confused:
BTW-- I didn't believe the reports on results of optics cleaning, but after doing just "surface" cleaning, the picture is NEW AGAIN... AMAZING!! Now if I can get this thing working properly again, I think I'll keep it and get the full calibration / deep optics cleaning done.
Thanks in advance for any ideas, and this Mr. Bob guy seems to really know his business! Keep it up!

I would double check your board for any solder bridges.

When I resolder a board, I use a magnifier hood plus my reading glasses, with one eye covered so my far vision will not be adversely affected by parallaxing my eyes - going crosseyed from beading down on one closeup conn after another, with both eyes. Your eyes unconsciously focus when you do that, causing my far vision to suffer later.

After I am done I go over the board 2-3 times, all over, scrutinizing it very heavily. I leave NOTHING to chance.

Can't guaranty I would solve your problem if you sent me the board, but NONE of them have come back that I have resoldered, of the ones owners have sent me.

If that doesn't do it, you may have to get a new board, unfortunately. Which board is anybody's guess. The defl. bd may be the problem now, tho I have not heard of this problem in ANY of the x10 units, so really can't say.

Mr Bob

vosseler

03-14-08, 10:45 PM

I had written earlier about the power down light on the PS board only coming on when the blue and white wire that was running from the PS board was connected. Turns out that "DIRECT TO SW" means direct to switch which is the power switch under the swivel panel on the front of the unit, so the behavior makes a lot of sense. :-)

I did some more diagnostics and found that leaving the connection to the signal assembly board disconnected (larger white nylon connector running horizontally at the top of the PS board [don't have it in front of me]) allows the board to power up without getting the power down light.

I disconnected a bunch of stuff to get to it and removed it from the chassis and found some obviously blown components on the board. Ones small enough that it's obvious when they've been hit with too much juice. They are too small to fix manually so the board would have to be replaced and it's a $550 board.

In addition, since the blown components (I think they are small transistors) are right by the bus connections and that bus connects direct to the cpu board along with having it's own components, I'm thinking that replacing the board is only going to get me one step further. Having seen excessive voltage blow lots of things at once in other cases, I'm guessing that this is just the first in a chain of things that are bad.

Oh well. I guess I'm going TV shopping this weekend.

- Tom

Mr Bob

03-15-08, 07:43 PM

jhaygood

03-21-08, 09:23 AM

Mr Bob

03-21-08, 01:31 PM

I perused this thread quite a bit last year - very helpful - local guy tried some repairs - worked for a bit - didn't know what he was doing I think - still has the shutdown problem. It works for a bit then usually shuts down, so wife wants it gone! It's available free to anyone interested in picking it up in Santa Monica, CA. I have it list in the classified section - maybe someone in this thread is interested?

He prolly just resoldered the squawked about areas, and later more of the rest of them went. Have said over and over again, every conn that goes anywhere on that board and wasn't resoldered later already, like the gray wires and components with rosin still showing on them, needs to be resoldered. If not, then next year a whole new set of conns will go out, as the set continues to age, from that bad factory soldering job they did on that board. No others in the unit have that schlocky factory soldering job, just that one.

From what you're saying, the PS bd simply needs that more thorough resoldering job, like I do on it, where I never see that board again, because my soldering jobs STAY.

Do it yourself or send it to me -

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

03-22-08, 04:52 AM

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5166/31808firstscreenshotsonzg0.jpg[/URL]

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/9916/31808firstscreenshotsonee9.jpg[/URL]

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/2991/31808firstscreenshotsondm3.jpg[/URL]

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/25/31808firstscreenshotsondf5.jpg[/URL]

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/4422/31808firstscreenshotsonhp5.jpg[/URL]

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/7007/31808firstscreenshotsonkh2.jpg[/URL]

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/3360/31808firstscreenshotsonic1.jpg[/URL]

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6818/31808firstscreenshotsongr6.jpg[/URL]

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/9317/31808firstscreenshotsoncv7.jpg[/URL]

mo-man

03-27-08, 08:42 PM

pitpro

03-27-08, 11:35 PM

To all Chicago area people that have Pioneer
problems or just want their set cleaned/calibrated:

I just spoke to Bob tonight. He is is MN caring for 6
different sets. He will finish up next Thurs. in MN.
I am trying to put together a visit to Chicago to do my
set and I am looking for individuals interested in
getting theirs serviced by Mr. Bob. He emailed me
the price list which I can forward if interested.
The MN people have already paid for his airline leg home
so all we would have to split is a roundtrip flight from MN
to Chicago.
SO WHO IS INTERESTED???
CONTACT ME IMMEDIATELY IF WE ARE GOING TO BE
ABLE TO PUT THIS TOGETHER. DON'T WAIT!
The guy I spoke to tonight was very satisfied with
his result.
Contact me soon at:
pitpro AT yahoo.com

Mr Bob

03-28-08, 06:31 AM

Guys,
My Pioneer Pro-610HD does not turn on anymore. There are two red LEDs on. One on the PS board and one on the deflection board. I decided not to repair and ordered another TV. If anyone is interested in having this set for parts or what have you it is yours for taking it away. You can pick it up at curbside. I live in Orange County CA. Contact me if you are interested.

Replacing the defl bd should repair this unit completely. Not all of this series needs the PS bd resoldered, evidently. This owner is not reporting any intermittent problems.

As such this may be all she needs.

Hopefully some intrepid soul will hop on this. The 610 is one awesome machine, just cleaned and calibrated one last night, turned out spectacular. Its owner has very low hours on it, like around 3000, where the usual is around 10,000 by now. It just sparkles now, I actually had to turn the contrast down a bit, in sm!

Same with the 510 I am currently working on. Turned down the sm internal contrast by 5 clicks. He can always turn it back up in user, but was so bright after the optics cleaning that he agreed it should be turned down a bit.

I am having so much fun, here in MN!

:cool:

Mr Bob

roberson7

03-29-08, 12:33 AM

John Tillman

03-29-08, 06:45 PM

Mr Bob

03-30-08, 09:17 AM

Two years ago I had the PS re-soldered and the IC's on the Convergence board were replaced. My blue-flash and shut down issues went away.

Yesterday, she shut down and wouldn't come back up. I checked the 4 glass fuses on the PS board and one was blown (5-amp 125-volt).

Replaced it with a new one, powered up and she shut down after about 5-10 seconds. Same fuse was blown and now a red led on the PS board is lit.

Does the PS board need to be re-soldered again?

If the PS bd was not virtually completely resoldered, then new baddies have occurred. But that blown fuse indicates a problem with the conv bd, and new ICs are probably needed again.

Please copy/paste this to my regular email address of
bob@imageperfection.com to continue
this. My pm box has to stay ready for emergencies, and
is getting very full.

Send me your phone number and we can continue this live.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

03-30-08, 09:34 AM

Sorry, have had to change my title on this thread, due to new information. Mark, the owner, has paid the new retailer $50 to cart his old one away, and has agreed to keep the set for me in his garage until I get there to calibrate his new DLP, whenever the 100 hour usage mark has arrived.

Here's the original post, with modifications -

One of my owners has a convergence problem on his 65" xxx07 series Mit, and has bought new, since he doesn't know how long I will be out of town on this cal tour I am on (I don't either). He is letting them cart it away today, Sunday. He says he will give it away to whoever wants it, as long as they reimburse him the $50 carting-away fee, already paid in with his new purchase. He lives in San Jose.

If you're up on this tech at all, you know that conv issues are a straightforward repair. This set has been calibrated twice already by me, and is superb, he really takes care of his toys.

If you want to approach him directly, his name is Mark, and his email addy is:

mds54@earthlink.net

Contact Mark or me ASAP if you want this almost FREE 65" Mit!

Mr Bob
__________________

John Koessler

03-30-08, 08:37 PM

Mr Bob

04-01-08, 05:50 AM

Credit for the supertight image structure of these pix goes to its owner, Chad Gilbertson, of Ellsworth, WI.

This was a limited contribution on my part, I only helped him with the deeper optics cleaning and dialing in the grayscale on sm, which he had nearly already pegged himself, in User. I did the Cantilever Technique for him, after which he saw that 2 of his colors were still out of focus on optical. He was going to correct that ASAP after I left. These pix are with more optical focus error than I allow in my full calibrations.

Awesome caretaking by an owner! I was very impressed -

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/2142/mntrip308screenshotsofcyt2.jpg[/URL]

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/7756/mntrip308screenshotsofcde4.jpg[/URL]

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/4689/mntrip308screenshotsofcry8.jpg[/URL]

Our sleepy hero, about to get a rude awakening...

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5871/mntrip308screenshotsofcve6.jpg[/URL]

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6717/mntrip308screenshotsofccf6.jpg[/URL]

Mr Bob

04-01-08, 06:12 AM

This set required restoration of the brightness from a relatively dim picture, which nearly every set I encounter these days in this series, needs. When I start, the Black Level is having to be run at plus 12-15 on every 510/610/710 I have been doing these days, to have enough light to even attempt to see into the dark areas. When I am finished, it is running at midpoint again, with full punch, as these pictures show.

Remember, any excess blue edging you see in the images is due to digital camera artifacting, it does not appear on the screen itself from normal viewing distances -

Hit F11 to open up your screen and see these pix better -

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/2707/mntrip308screenshotsofdqo8.jpg[/URL]

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/6743/mntrip308screenshotsofdcr9.jpg[/URL]

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/1873/mntrip308screenshotsofduk4.jpg[/URL]

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/945/mntrip308screenshotsofddh1.jpg[/URL]

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/6281/mntrip308screenshotsofdna5.jpg[/URL]

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7659/mntrip308screenshotsofdfv0.jpg[/URL]

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/3064/mntrip308screenshotsofdzu4.jpg[/URL]

Mr Bob

04-02-08, 11:35 PM

Ken had already reduced his overscan quite effectively, using registers I had forgotten about in the sm, which I will continue to use in the future. My thanks to him for this little refresher course!

I was able to charge him half the usual o'scan reduction fee, to take over and straighten out whatever was still left to do, which was still a bit substantial out at the edges.

Still, the material in the main viewing area was quite tightly stitched together, emminently enjoyable. Pioneers have some quirks that take some getting used to, to come up with the picture being coherent all around. And of course the Pio grid is totally blank at the top, leaving several inches of height without a grid to align to -

Not bad end results for an 7 year old display. I'd say Elite owners have at least 3 more good years to look forward to out of their sets, of their pix looking just as good as we have here -

This first one shows how blue-white the grayscale usually is, OOB -

Memento -

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/2581/copyofcopyofmntrip308scry8.jpg[/URL]

This is before the cleaning and calibration. Remember, the blue outlining does not appear to the naked eye, it is an artifact of the digital photography we are doing here. Neither Ken nor myself saw any of that blue outlining from his normal viewing position, around 6' away.

Notice the bleariness, and the internal reflection on his cheek of his bright forehead, on the opposing portion of the screen -

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/5631/copyofmntrip308screenshkz0.jpg[/URL]

This is after the cleaning and blackening of the metal plating with big and small Sharpie pens. Bleariness and internal reflection gone -

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/2227/copy2ofmntrip308screenson5.jpg[/URL]

Hugh Jackman - from The Fountain. That really weird one where he travels thru time on various adventures and incarnations, trying to save his loved one from dying...

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/4295/copy2ofmntrip308screensul4.jpg[/URL]

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/6441/copy2ofmntrip308screensop7.jpg[/URL]

chmecray

04-04-08, 08:59 AM

That happened to mine as well. I dont remember what it was but it cost me about 800 to fix

tron2010

04-04-08, 07:30 PM

Hi Guys ,

New to the forum. I also have a Pioneer Elite PRO520-HD that won't power up. The board was resoldered by a local tech. He appeared to be very thorough. The set worked for about 3 months, then died again. He did another service call, and the set only worked for a short time. Now he recommends to just replace the power source, which at the time was back ordered from Pioneer. Is it common for the power source on this model to go bad?
Hi, also have a Pioneer Elite PRO520-HD and has shut itself off. I read this whole thread and I actually never had any blue flash or conv issues. This set has been heavily used since Dec, 2001 and no problems at all. First issue happened few days ago and the screen went to 'snow' which was odd because if the Sat. went out if would say 'no signal'. And if it was switching inputs, the 'ANT' input shows a different kind of snow, so that was a little odd! The picture would come back in about 20 secs though. Then the next day POP and shutdown. I turned off the power and tried again few hours later thinking it was overheating... it worked for 20mins then shutdown. I then unplugged the unit and went online to research this and read this thread!
Ok, so I took out the PS board and examined it...no blown fuses. I'm new to soldering, but I examined the board and yes, lots of cold, gray solder points. However, I was wondering what that colored stuff was on some joints and I guess it is rosin? Here are two pics I took and one shows rosin on the E1 area--yuck, it looks like a mess! Why would it be there?? Also, the silver 'paths' seem like they are missing 'paint'... is this normal? So what do I do about this rosin stuff while re-soldering? Also, after reading this thread, even if Pio would send me a new free board, it would be better to get my original board resoldered for best results...so I will try myself, and if that doesn't work I'll find a prof. or send it to Mr. Bob! Thanks for any comments on these pics...

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3260/p1010007nl4.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/472/p1010008mw8.jpg

Mr Bob

04-05-08, 09:47 AM

Hi, also have a Pioneer Elite PRO520-HD and has shut itself off. I read this whole thread and I actually never had any blue flash or conv issues. This set has been heavily used since Dec, 2001 and no problems at all. First issue happened few days ago and the screen went to 'snow' which was odd because if the Sat. went out if would say 'no signal'. And if it was switching inputs, the 'ANT' input shows a different kind of snow, so that was a little odd! The picture would come back in about 20 secs though. Then the next day POP and shutdown. I turned off the power and tried again few hours later thinking it was overheating... it worked for 20mins then shutdown. I then unplugged the unit and went online to research this and read this thread!
Ok, so I took out the PS board and examined it...no blown fuses. I'm new to soldering, but I examined the board and yes, lots of cold, gray solder points. However, I was wondering what that colored stuff was on some joints and I guess it is rosin? Here are two pics I took and one shows rosin on the E1 area--yuck, it looks like a mess! Why would it be there?? Also, the silver 'paths' seem like they are missing 'paint'... is this normal? So what do I do about this rosin stuff while re-soldering? Also, after reading this thread, even if Pio would send me a new free board, it would be better to get my original board resoldered for best results...so I will try myself, and if that doesn't work I'll find a prof. or send it to Mr. Bob! Thanks for any comments on these pics...

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/472/p1010008mw8.jpg

Looks like rosin, tho the rosin I usually see on the x10 bds is darker. Nothing wrong with rosin being there after a soldering job, the only reason for removing it is looks.

DK what you mean by "paint" - as long as a run has not had its metallic content interrupted by a break in the bd or by having it scraped off, or getting hopelessly corroded, it should provide connectivity.

Cold solder joints CAN be invisible, I have seen that happen -

If you ever have any doubts, check with a continuity tester, digital VOMs at Radio Shack are cheap and totally accurate.

Mr Bob

speekergeek

04-05-08, 05:11 PM

tron2010

04-09-08, 06:53 AM

Update: Resoldered most of the board with particular attention to all those frequently mentioned trouble spots. I ended up using a lot more new solder than I thought. Also, thanks Mr. Bob for the idea of using the cont. tester on my multimeter...everything checked out...I guess it's just normal for those paths to have different colors.
Checked over the board for any bridges and debris and reinstalled the board. Turned on and stayed on. However, and maybe because I have all other equipment off in the area (harddrive air purifier etc) I noticed that the main transformer was humming/buzzing (during bright/white scenes) not super loud, but enough to hear it if I'm at the side or behind the tv (I haven't put the main cover back on yet). Also, the mini transformer on the right edge of the board was also making a little noise. The mini-transformer noise was fixed by putting in the remaining screws to make the board nice and tight. I guess it's ok for the main transformer to buzz--esp. on bright scenes? Seems to have been mentioned on this thread before...Also, it wasn't that hot to the touch after 4 hours of being on.
Interestingly, if I lightly pinched the sides (feels magnetic?) with thumb and fore finger then buzzing goes down about 90%. I could also feel an almost ultrasonic vibration coming from it. At first I was worried maybe there was a short somewhere, but I also wonder if it always made this noise, but just never heard with all the other equipment on. I figured if you hear the ones on the telephone pole buzz, I guess that's normal? Would it ever be worth ordering a new transformer and replacing it if it gets louder down the road?
Anyway, 2 days of heavy use and no shutdowns and image is rock-solid! I won't button it up until the weekend--just in case! Also, a quick question about burn-in. This set has been heavily used since 2001 and lots of news-stations with their tickers at the bottom have caused a blurred burn-in all the way across the bottom of the screen! Also, the DVR pause symbol has caused burn-in on the upper right corner. Would all 3 crts have to be replaced? I wonder if it would be worth the cost? Anyway, not enough to make anything unwatchable, just shows up on white backgrounds for now.

(This was for the Pioneer Elite PRO520-HD in case anyone is searching for that model)

Mr Bob

04-10-08, 12:20 AM

Mr Bob

04-17-08, 11:43 AM

check for CRT fluid leaks. sounds very unusual to have a symptom like you described followed up by a shutdown, a hard one at that. I admit I am not TOO familiar with pioneer products, most issues are universal as long as the set has is similar topology.
Even 1 DROP of leaked fluid can cause many strange symptoms. I have seen everything from upsidedown volume bar, to strange screen patterns, to intermittent shutdown, to convergence issues, among others.

Just an idea for you to check. and finding it may not be easy.

Mike

The 510/610/710 series - and prolly all series of them - are equipped with overflow bladders, one on each gun. I have never seen them leak.

I have only seen leaks of coolant on guns that have no overflow bladders, where the seals just can't contain the pressure caused by running with the kind of temps in there that they run at.

Actually Mit is the only brand I have seen coolant leakage from, in normal usage. It is currently wreaking havoc on their HDready series, with an uncommonly high rate of leakage, resulting in ruination of countless Signal boards, which are 4 layer boards and very hard to save. The other 2 boards that get leaked on can always be saved, as they are only single layer.

But I have never seen this on a Pio.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

04-17-08, 11:49 AM

Quick addition to my post 1333 above -

CRT is the most mature, field tested, tried and true format out there, having been successfully implemented and applied for far longer - by many many years - than any other format out there.

And IMHO, still the best.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

04-18-08, 10:29 AM

For some reason my desktop PC is showing my screenshots above bigger than I remember them on the laptop. Not that I am complaining, they still look stunning, even bigger. Your Pioneer HDready sets out there are truly capable of greatness, obviously, even the oldest ones, the x10 series, which are featured in most of the shots up there -

So if your monitor is doing the same thing, I recommend hitting F11. This reduces the amount of extraneous stuff around the outside of your screen, allowing the pix to take up more space on your monitor. Hitting it again restores all that stuff around the outside.

Try it. Does them a lot more justice -

;)

Mr Bob

PS - I never seem to get tired of looking at those depictions of what's now going on back there in MN and Chicago on their owners' sets, after my calibration tour there that I just got back from. I left a string of CRT RPTVs capable of that level of screenshots, with their owners simply purring at their newfound images, and couldn't be prouder...

:rolleyes:

Mr Bob

04-20-08, 02:13 PM

Hopefully the screenshots I have put up here have impressed those out there who didn't think "older" CRT had the ability to look that good, with all the hype around fixed pixel these days. 6-7 year old CRT tech is not "old", not even close. It's just now hitting its stride, and has many happy years ahead of it, of excellent viewing.

As such, I am going to let you know of a deal I know about on a CRT RPTV, even tho it is not a Pioneer. Pioneer CRT tech is no longer available, nor is ANY CRT tech, new. But CRT tech is still the best format, IMHO. I am still all over saving as many of these Elite 510/610/710s as I can, but am also all over saving ANY CRT RPTV I can, before they are all gone.

A CRT Mit is being retired by an owner in San Jose who has bought a new DLP. This Mit is a 65" HDready, 1" bigger than the 710, a classic if there ever was one, and has been lovingly calibrated twice by me already, over the years. It now has the convergence intermittency that is very common to them, like a thermostat wearing out on a car. The repair will be very straightforward, just like the repairs I have been doing on your Elite PS boards, and will be done soon, before it is placed with its new owner. Or after, if the new owner wants to do it himself and save some money.

This unit is being kept by its owner till I can find it a new owner.

Who would like to be the owner of a mint condition Mit 65" HDready, calibrated for the second time within the last 2 years, and owned by someone who really knows how to take care of his toys? Its picture, freshly calibrated, will be every bit as good as the freshly calibrated Pioneer Elite pix shown here. With CRT tech getting so rare and available CRT units getting so few and far between, I hope you Pio owners don't mind that I am mentioning it here.

Please contact me immediately. It will be very well priced, either way. Even better priced if the new owner comes and takes it away himself. It is currently in San Jose.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

04-24-08, 01:39 PM

Sorry, I just have to crow a little...

I just learned that I have been mentioned on the Curt Palme site, a site dedicated to the best CRT reproduction possible, primarily dealing with the immensely capable and expensive triple gun CRT front projectors, the kind they used to buy $20,000 Faroudja scalers for. It is dedicated to the best big screen picture possible, and ceiling pj people are incredibly dedicated to that site. It's a reference site, it's where the REALLY committed videophiles go to get their systems looking their best.

This was in regards to equipment they sponsor there that successfully transcodes HDMI video to component, in all its splendor, with its resulting images NOT limited or neutralized by HDCP. And arriving at the display fully ceiling projector grade.

So if you have a component-only CRT RPTV and have been considering buying new just to get HDMI, your worries are over. Keep your set, spend a few hundred equipping it with ceiling pj grade transcoding equipment, and continue to enjoy the incredible images your CRT set is capable of, head and shoulders better than a lot of the new tech out there, and standing shoulder to shoulder with the best of it.

I am mentioned there in a testimonial by James A, whose Mit 55905 I just calibrated last week, around a year 2001 HDready model. He swears by it, says his set now "outperforms some of the newest stuff out there"...

Check the Curt Palme site -

www.curtpalme.com

and this in particular, it's in the testimonials down below -

http://www.curtpalme.com/Box1020.shtm

Mr Bob

zigmeisterxiv

04-25-08, 03:42 PM

If I post here that my PRO510 in Long Beach CA is available for sale is that out of line ... I'm not trying to save the 5 bucks so much as targeting my market ...

elohkb

04-27-08, 08:55 PM

I live in the Fort Lauderdale, Florida area. I own a Pioneer Elite 710HD that needs some work, including optics cleaning, recalibration, and soldering of a defective board. Is there anyone else in the South Florida area who would be interested in sharing the cost of flying Mr. Bob in to our area to perform optics cleaning, recalibration and/or board repair for a CRT RPTV?

Mr Bob

04-29-08, 09:39 AM

A colleague of mine is giving me a raft of **** over at the SPot, saying that screenshots are BS and that I should be able to take them lickety split, with little or no planning, experimentation, nor time. As if taking screenshots were a very simple thing, and that the time and care I have taken in getting ones I consider good enough to be worthy of posting, mean nothing.

He also says that CRT RPTV is not a worthwhile medium anymore, and that I am in severe denial about several things, among them trying to save it and make it last as long as I - as we all - can. I have mentioned these threads where screenshots are highly respected over here, and others where CRT RPTV tech is also highly respected. He says the only CRT medium worth having is front projection, which at least is some form of agreement between us anyway, I guess, tho I disagree that it is the only CRT medium worth caring about.

When I mentioned the huge numbers of views of such threads over here, he says that I am quoting numbers of views that make them impossible to read.

I would like some help in answering him. Here's the thread -

http://www.***************.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/141139/

It gets most heated on the second page -

Mr Bob
__________________

sislegr

04-30-08, 09:31 PM

Mr Bob

05-03-08, 02:20 AM

Mr. Bob,
I have been reading this thread for some time and I don't think that my issue has been covered, if it has I didn't see it. 2 years ago, I experienced the flashing issue, it would occur periodically while viewing and over a period of 3 weeks or so the problem got worse in that it was more often, never shut the unit off though. I researched the issue and found the power supply cold solder joing issue. I removed the PS board, re-soldered it and all has been great until now. This week the I saw similar looking flashes and the picture actually got distorted then snapped back to perfect. This happened 1 more time, along with a few more flashes then it played perfect the rest of the day. The next day I turned it on, and more flashes, no distortion this time however, I figured the PS BD needs another re-solder, I removed the PS BD and went over the entire thing with Silver solder and re-installed it, turned it on and saw more flashes within the 1st 30-60 seconds, then it plays fine. Still seems like a cold solder joint issue to me, any ideas of what it could be now? Any help would be great, I'm very good with T/S but do not have service notes or Schemes on this unit and your experience is invaluable.

Silver solder??? Why? That is for strength, for necklaces and stuff. NOT for electronics, tho I guess it couldn't hurt. But then I have NO experience with using silver solder in an electronics application. I think that is a very questionable thing to do, it is simply not done in the electronics industry. Having superior strength may be costing you in conductivity.

The distortion you saw was probably the regulator conns being hinky, the ones that supply the voltages to the conv bd. Bad conn's are intermittent, they come and go with the heat of the operation of the unit.

I have been sent boards for resoldering, and the last few have had parts of their boards resoldered already. Which meant that they worked for awhile but then didn't work, or they never woulda been sent to me. Of course they missed other bad solder places, because the ones that aren't bad yet become bad later, over time.

That means resoldering the entire board - everything that connects in there that was part of the original solder flow run, meaning you can only leave out things like the heat sinks, test points, gray wires and anything else that was resoldered later, like some of the big/huge resistors and big transistors. If it has the brown transparent rosin at those solder points, they are probably just fine.

It's the solder joints where the solder has a dull, flat sheen to it that is where the problems are. Solder that is bright and gleaming usually doesn't present any problems, and usually stays good forever when treated with constant temp.

The rest of the boards in there have never had a problem, this one bd was the only one with these issues. That's how the PS bd SHOULD have worked - flawlessly, like all the other boards in there.

If you have resoldered just the reported bad parts, back at the beginning of this thread, then I think it is still unsoldered in some critical areas.

Or the silver solder you're using is not doing what official electronic 60/40 solder would do.

Just my .02...

Mr Bob

Scott Groenendal

05-03-08, 11:23 AM

Mr Bob

05-03-08, 04:57 PM

Mr. Bob,

New to the thread - seems like you are the expert in these matters. Sorry, but I really am not a true techy geek, just know that my equipment isn't working. I have never taken anything apart on the set, nor do I really want to, as I really don't feel qualified to do so. Here is my problem (hoping you can shed some light / give suggestions how to fix):

For about the past year, I have had problems with my set. I get blue flashes periodically followed by the picture going darker than it should be. I see that the blue flash happens most often after the picture has almost gotten too bright. Just this past week, I have heard the pop and instead of overcorrecting itself (bright picture going to dark picture), the set has totally turned off. Sounds like it could be similiar to what others have talked about.

I would be interested in your services for fixing. I have never had the set calibrated either, so could potentially be interested in that. Like many others, I am extremely dissapointed that a $6000 piece of equipment is doing this. I have always made the case to my wife that it is better to purchase high end equipment because of the quality you will recieve and the duration it will last. This time it is blowing up in my face. I feel like I want to just buy a new set, but can't bring myself to admit defeat. Help, please!

Sounds like the classic symptoms this thread is all about. If you don't want to read the whole thing, rest assured that this repair is a very straightforward one, your set is in no imminent danger of going bye bye.

If you want to send me the board, you pay the shipping both ways and include a MO made out to Robert Jones for $275. If you want to use paypal, make that $285. Or have me over to your place to do the fix for $350 stem to stern. Plus $85/hr travel RT, at the new gas prices.

The important thing is to shut the set down NOW. DON'T use it again until it's time to send me the board or have me over for the repair. These things get worse when you expose sensitive circuitry downline to bad conns in things like power/voltage regulation. Every time you saw it go out or flicker or give you a blue flash, you were playing Russian Roulette with your $6000 unit.

This PS bd going out later on in life was the ONLY gliche with this series, and the ONLY board doing so. Just a weak spot in the production, the rest of the boards have stayed rock solid. Other than this isolated problem, they have been rock solid working units, well worth the $6000 you spent. At what I am charging, which is really nothing in the great sceme of things when it's a $6000 unit, it's still worth its weight in gold once fixed, cleaned and calibrated.

Send me your phone number and we can continue this live -

Mr Bob

Scott Groenendal

05-04-08, 10:13 AM

Mr. Bob,

Thanks much. Would love to continue this live. Sorry for the lack of techy jargon, but sounds like you know what the problem is. Phone number to call is 312-404-0602. Just FYI - I live outside of Chicago, in the SW suburbs. Sounds like you have made some tours in the area before. I am available all day today to talk, whenever you have time. Thanks for your help.

timdog1031

05-05-08, 09:37 AM

cassiusdrow

05-05-08, 08:55 PM

Ned some help and this thread seems to be where I can find it.

I have an elite pro630hd. I have used the set for many years withou problems. A tech from pioneer fixed the blue converg problem and have had no issues since. But now I do.

A couple of days ago the set went off with reason. Now I have a flashing red standbye light. I have unplugged it an still nothing

This happened when I first got it and the tech told me a reset sequesnce that worked to clear this. Does anyone know what this sequence is? Or does anyone know what this is an indication of?

Thanks

The flashing could indicate the HDCP protection scheme was violated and needs to be reset. If so:

1. Hold down "Return" key on front panel for more than 5 seconds to light LED.
2. Within 5 seconds of Step 1 press "Power" - "Return" - "Input/Set"
3. Press "Power" to turn set on.

Be sure to check that your DVI/HDMI cables are fully seated.

Protus

05-05-08, 11:00 PM

Mr Bob

05-06-08, 03:54 PM

I have had no trouble out of my TV since I got it. Today however I turned the TV off, there was nothing unusual about it going off. I returned about an hour later and turned the TV on. The Red standby light turned green and the TV clicked like it always has and there was the sound that the screen makes when it powers up but no picture, no sound nothing. I wasn't able to turn the set off using the remote or the power button and none of the other buttons on the front of the TV responded either, except the Master Power button. I hope you've seen this behavior before. Please help me save my TV.

If you need more detail please ask away.

Thanks,

George

All I know about the SDP series was that they quite often showed up with cold solder conns that needed resoldering. The PRO series really didn't follow suit there, but at its age, that is definitely a prime suspect even so.

Or that the conv ICs may have croaked, and without them working properly the set would sometimes not turn on because they had not only croaked, but crispied as well.

Wish I could help more, but would have to be on location with the unit in front of me to do so.

Mr Bob

Protus

05-06-08, 09:48 PM

I've attached 2 photos showing what looks like a burned component. Would you be able to send me instructions on taking readings in order to track down the issue?

email:george@networkjunkies.net

Mr Bob

05-07-08, 11:46 AM

I've attached 2 photos showing what looks like a burned component. Would you be able to send me instructions on taking readings in order to track down the issue?

email:george@networkjunkies.net

I don't see anything burned in there. Those brown transparent caps look their natural color.

Dark, black and dusty, but nothing in there appears burned, to me.

Mr Bob

Protus

05-07-08, 01:06 PM

Do you have or have access to a service manual for the Elite Pro-200? If so would you mind sending me a copy?

George

timdog1031

05-07-08, 01:16 PM

is this all done done with the main power buttone on?

When I press return for 5 sec will the led light up or flash?

Mr Bob

05-08-08, 01:16 AM

Do you have or have access to a service manual for the Elite Pro-200? If so would you mind sending me a copy?

George

I don't, if you're talking to me -

timdog1031

05-08-08, 09:10 AM

Hey I used this sequence and when I hit the return button the red light just starts flashing again.

Just to doble check.

With the main power on
Press and hold the reurn key untill light goes solid red
Within five secs press power then return then input then power

Is this the proper seq becuase if it is when I perform this seq the red light goes back to flashing.

rkumar

05-10-08, 06:03 PM

bweissman

05-10-08, 07:08 PM

hi all, i finally fixed my pro 710 with the shutoff issue. however, now HD pictures do not seem to fit on the screen. the top and bottom of all hd pictures are cut off. it is almost like the tv is on "natural wide" setting.

the tv automatically sets itself on "full" for HD pictures. also, i cannot adjust vertical position in the setup menu. i adjusted convergence but that did not help the issue. anyone have suggestions as to how i can adjust the position of the picture?
Your fix must have reset your screen's geometry. You will have to go into service mode to properly set the geometry. The usual caveats apply (i.e., you can make everything worse), but the place to start would be in the 710's Service Manual. This fascinating document written by non-English speakers will show you how to enter service mode and how to access the various adjustments. If you have never done this, you may be better off getting an experienced person to handle it for you.

RTSinDallas

05-12-08, 09:53 PM

My 510 finally started acting up. The contrast would flare up, and then it would occasionally shut itself down. When the frequency started to increase I remembered this thread. I spent more time reading what to do, than the actual repair took. Thank you to the guys who pioneered(pun intended) this fix.

Mr Bob

05-13-08, 12:10 AM

RTSinDallas

05-13-08, 12:33 AM

;)

I hate to see a good set go down. Period. Even if I'm not the one doing the repair itself!

:D

Mr Bob

I agree, the picture on these sets is so good, that I'm rarely impressed in new TV showrooms. I would be lost if my set had a catastrophic failure.
Mr. Bob, Thanks again to you and the others that have helped us keep these fine sets going.

dgruner

05-14-08, 09:25 PM

Mr Bob

05-15-08, 12:22 AM

I too would like to see my 510 repaired, rather than have to discard it and then
spend thousands on a new tv. Here is my problem:

After fixing the power supply (resoldering, replacing a couple of components),
now it appears that the deflection board is bad. I have been quoted a lot of
money for a new one from Pioneer, and I am not willing to spend that much
on such an old machine. Do you know where I could get a refurbished board?
I am in Toronto, Canada.

The main problem with the purchase is that the technician wanted me to pay
for the board regardless of whether it worked or not, and I am not willing to
take that risk...

Thanks for any pointers!

When I resolder these boards, I have never replaced anything on the board and they always work just fine afterwards. What components did you replace?

Did it work for awhile and then go out, or did whatever you did take down the defl bd as a consequence? It's usually the case that when a defl bd goes down - and sometimes the conv bd - the intermittencies have already happened for awhile on the PS bd. I believe that overstresses the defl bd.

The last time I sent a defl bd to Canada, I believe I charged the owner $395 plus the shipping. In the states if you can get it straight from Pio you might pay less, but the guy in Canada wanted me to get it for him because the border increased the price way too high for him to like those prices. He was very happy with my price, bought here and sent there.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

05-15-08, 12:28 AM

hi all, i finally fixed my pro 710 with the shutoff issue. however, now HD pictures do not seem to fit on the screen. the top and bottom of all hd pictures are cut off. it is almost like the tv is on "natural wide" setting.

the tv automatically sets itself on "full" for HD pictures. also, i cannot adjust vertical position in the setup menu. i adjusted convergence but that did not help the issue. anyone have suggestions as to how i can adjust the position of the picture?

thanks

Pic sizing doesn't change significantly - by itself or by you changing it - without significant changes in the geometry and convergence as well. If those were left alone after this event, I don't see how.

Many people don't notice the overscanning till they finally equip themselves with HD, after having had only 480i/p for a long time. They finally step up to HD, and there it is.

If you change the vertical positioning in the sm, the hor keystone will be affected, depending on how much the vert pos has been changed.

Mr Bob

dgruner

05-15-08, 09:38 PM

When I resolder these boards, I have never replaced anything on the board and they always work just fine afterwards. What components did you replace?

The control chip and one of the power transistors.

Did it work for awhile and then go out, or did whatever you did take down the defl bd as a consequence? It's usually the case that when a defl bd goes down - and sometimes the conv bd - the intermittencies have already happened for awhile on the PS bd. I believe that overstresses the defl bd.

Nope, it didn't work at all. I guess the deflection board had already gotten
too stressed from the bad ps, which had been failing for quite some time.
In the end the ps failed completely (you turn the tv on, and one second later
it goes off; only power cycling lets you repeat the sequence, but not just
using the relay or the remote). We know the ps was bad because there were
no voltages to many of the connectors.

The last time I sent a defl bd to Canada, I believe I charged the owner $395 plus the shipping. In the states if you can get it straight from Pio you might pay less, but the guy in Canada wanted me to get it for him because the border increased the price way too high for him to like those prices. He was very happy with my price, bought here and sent there.

Mr Bob

The technician wanted $680 + tax, for a board bought from Pioneer. Besides, he didn't give me any guarantee that it would fix the tv. He said, furthermore, that I would have to pay for the board regardless. This is where I draw the line...

I was willing to spend up to $500, including the service call, but at some point
you need to decide whether it is worth pursuing the fix to the lemon, or to get
a brand new plasma.

Mr Bob

05-16-08, 02:04 PM

The technician wanted $680 + tax, for a board bought from Pioneer. Besides, he didn't give me any guarantee that it would fix the tv. He said, furthermore, that I would have to pay for the board regardless. This is where I draw the line...

I was willing to spend up to $500, including the service call, but at some point
you need to decide whether it is worth pursuing the fix to the lemon, or to get
a brand new plasma.

In changing out components on the PS bd, you change the parameters of this thread, which is predicated on making the PS bd - and thus the set - work without changing any components on that bd. In all the pages so far on this thread for the past few months, I don't remember anybody saying they remedied what was wrong with the PS bd by changing out components on that bd. Maybe in the first pages of the thread, but that was long ago. A rock solid successful pattern of saving these sets has come thru from months and months of attention on these issues, by me and others, I have been on this thread almost every day since I started my participation in it. And what has resulted from all these months and months of attention to these issues - the successfully working end protocol, saving these sets as we speak - does not contain any references to replaced parts on the PS bd.

So it's anybody's guess as to what the condition of the PS bd is in now. If you did it right, chances are the PS bd now works properly - as long as you have followed what I have said earlier, about NOT just spot soldering, but a much more complete resoldering op, resoldering anything that goes to anywhere else in there and connects, and that has not been freshly soldered already.

If your PS bd is now working properly, and the defl bd is what is bad, there will be a red trouble LED on the defl bd lit up, along with one on the PS bd. Even if the PS bd is OK, an LED will still be lit up if there's one lit up on the defl bd as well, and it will stay lit up till the defl bd has been replaced with a good one. After which both LEDs stay off and the set works properly, if the defl bd was the only problem.

Replacing the defl bd in that scenario has always cured the problems for me, as long as the PS bd is OK. Since the PS bd is now an unknown, replacing both bds is the only way to know for MORE certain. No absolute certainty on these issues happens till the fat lady sings.

Mr Bob

jgacs

05-24-08, 07:24 PM

Mr Bob

05-24-08, 07:55 PM

Hello,

I have a Pioneer Rear proj Tv Model SD 582HD5 that I have for 6-7 yrs now.In the last few months its started turning itself off after a loud pop! I thought it was over heating bec after shutting it off for 30 min, it usually works again.
Lately its becoming more frequent.
Now, based from a few pages of reading this due to cold soldering?I have a little experience about soldering and im planning to resolder it myself.I just pulled out the PCB a few minutes ago and wow!I didnt realize there so much parts to be resoldered.
Do I need to resolder all of them?If not , can some one point me out which particular pins do I need to resolder.A pic would help me a lot esp I doont have any electronic background or studies.
Thanks.

DO NOT USE YOUR SET WHILE THAT BOARD - the PS bd at the end of the power cord going to the wall - IS IN THIS CONDITION. The condition could easily cause deeper problems in the rest of the set each time it freaks out.

What's wrong is failing solder on that board, which is why it is intermittent and thermal. The entire PS bd needs to be resoldered, it's quite a job and rife with potential hazard if you're not experienced with such things. Every joint that goes and connects with anything in there has to be resoldered if it's not freshly soldered now, and you mustn't cause any solder bridges in the process. Which is real easy to do, as many of the joints are super tiny, requiring a fine soldering iron tip.

You also have to use good solder technique, which usually only comes with experience. I elaborated on that way back in the early days of this thread, but even I would take forever, looking for it now.

I use magnifying goggles along with 2.5 power reading glasses, good lighting, and go over my finished product several times, stem to stern, every time I do one. I presently have 2 boards still in their boxes ready for the op, sent to me from afar. Will be getting on them this week, after the holiday.

Good luck, let me know if you'd rather have me just take over and do it for you.

Mr Bob

rkumar

05-24-08, 10:14 PM

Mr Bob

05-26-08, 12:25 PM

Mr. Bob, what is the best way to change the vert. pos. without affecting hor. keystone too much?

on another note, would it be better to get the set ISF calibrated thereby fixing the overscan and image quality issues? do you have any trips planned out in michigan or can you reccommend someone out here? thanks.

2 ways for positioning - sm and magnet rings on the CRT neck. I have never had to resort to the latter on Pio HDreadys, always do it in sm.

WRITE DOWN THE BEGINNING AND ENDING POINTS OF ALL CHANGES IN GEOMETRY, at least on the green. The green has fewer registers in geometry than the red and blue. This changed with the x30 series, which makes overscan reduction a lot easier on a 530/630/730 series than on an x10 or x20 series.

In sm, the DOT gets you into the geometry section, which has Static, Size, Skew for both, and Pin for the vertical, on all 3 colors, plus a couple more for red and blue.

Hit Menu to memorize your changes, once you are satisfied with them.

The Enter button gets you into the conv, where all 3 guns can be manipulated via the 72 points. There is an invisible row and column you can use to get what's onscreen looking its best, but it's tricky to implement. I didn't know all it could do for years, before I finally got adept at it. The service manual does NOT cover that!

Pioneers have extensive learning curves, and it's real easy to paint yourself into a corner, so don't man the DIYer hat lightly. You will have hours and hours just of trial and error getting yourself up to speed, before you'll be able to do a halfway good-looking job. Be ready for that, if you want to do it yourself. I am available for phone coaching if you have the DIYer itch and can't let it go.

I am available to just DO your set if you simply want it done right, by someone - me - who has done literally TONS of them, all over the country. Every owner whose set I have done, has been blitzed by the fidelity he now has in his HD viewing. Most can sit so much closer to their sets when I have finished, that they now have a half-again BIGGER picture to watch than ever before. That's like going from a 42" to a 65", after one of my calibrations.

And CRT grade calibrators are becoming harder and harder to find. Many of the phone numbers on the ISF website have been disco'd, and that site never contained many CRT grade calibrators anyway, where the image structure has to be given its proper priority. With fixed pixel taking over, nobody's learning the craft anymore, of how to do triple gun CRT correctly. I am one of the only calibrators dedicated to keeping CRT alive as long as possible, since I know what they are capable of. They are the most mature tech out there, have been around the longest, and have it down. Fixed pixel is still struggling on lots of issues that CRT doesn't even have to deal with.

And HDMI is not an issue. If you want HDMI capacity on your X10 or x20 component/RGB-only set for HD, go to www.curtpalme.com. Or follow the links at the bottom of my website's cover page, to go directly to the instruments you need. These are ceiling pj grade components, designed to make the much bigger pictures of front-projection tech look excellent, and will equip your set with HDMI just fine.

The dim pix most of the x10 series have by now need special attention that ISF doesn't teach, to bring back the set's original light levels. The light levels that took over after the initial few months, where there is always a super-bright "sizzle", being a brand new set. After that it levels off and stays at the same light level for years until it starts to go dim, like they do now, where you have to turn up your Black Level to plus 12-15 to see anything in the dark areas. Even then you won't see anything until the optics have been cleaned. Pioneers are the only ones I know of that do this, but take heart! It is not a problem. Read on -

This dimness is not due to your set's being "worn out" - it's NOT, it's only at cruising age right now, with many happy years in front of it - and can be readily remedied when you know what to do. I do it all the time on this series, have never failed to bring back that cruising light level it still has in it, just fine. When I am thru with it, you will have those original cruising light levels back on your set, with Black Level - the whole user menu - midpointed. Which means a super bright picture when your viewing room is set up with the same ambient light levels used in the movie theaters.

You can always change anything you want in User after the cal, but to reachieve my cal settings, you can always go back to midpoint after that, after calibration.

NONE of this restoring of your light levels is taught at ISF.

You can find examples of finished product by way of screenshots on the x10 and x30 series from my MN/Chicago trip back a page, starting at #1325. Same photos can be found at posts #3066,7 and 8 of the "Don't Dump Your CRT RPTV!" thread.

Chances are you'll have to fly someone in one way or another, to ultimately get the best from your set. I don't have any trips to your area in the hopper right now, but would love to come see you over there. All each owner had to pay for my plane flight on the main MN leg of the MN/Chicago tour was $78.50, with the Chicago leg being an offshoot that came up after I was already in MN. That happens sometimes...

And if you have ANY brand of CRT RPTV and want JUST your optics cleaned, join up, if a tour indeed gets going here! Optics cleaning is absolutely essential on ALL CRT tech after the third year, whether you have any calibrating done or not. Having half a dozen optics cleanings on a cal tour along with the calibrations themselves, where everybody is chipping in on the travel expenses, fleshes out the tour real good and keeps those expenses low for each owner.

I am also available for resoldering of the PS board on all 510/610/710 series that need it.

I fly out of OAK, and leave on a late morning flight, arriving back late at night on the final day. I CAN fly out of SFO, but have to charge something extra for that, as it is not real close by.

Mr Bob

ismart

06-05-08, 07:18 PM

Mr Bob

06-06-08, 05:39 AM

So... been through the whole Power Supply board problems (re-soldered it, worked for a while; got a new one from Pioneer; had to re-solder that one too), and things have been working great for the last 6 months.

But now it won't power on (it powers on, and then immediately off). There is an LED lit on the convergence board (and the PS board). I replaced the IC's with STK392-180, but no change. The fuses on the PS board have not blown (took them out and tested them).

Anyone got any suggestions on what else to look for?

If there's an LED lit on the conv bd, there's a problem there. If the fuses blow there can be a problem there but no LED because of the board getting no power, and if there's no power getting to the bd because of blown fuses, the set won't turn on. But you've already established that the fuses are OK, and of course you're getting a light there, so the fuses are out of the equation.

Perhaps one of the resistors blew because of the ICs you replaced being shorted. They usually show by being burned on other brands, but have not seen this happen on a Pio, so can't say.

But if there's an LED lit up on the conv bd, then the set won't turn on and there's a problem there that has to be handled.

I would NOT change out the conv bd. DK whether that's where they put the eeprom, but you don't want to be starting from scratch on setting up the entire geometry/conv when you're a DIYer. I wouldn't want to do it myself, even with all my experience on these things.
Mr Bob

Mr Bob

06-06-08, 05:43 AM

So... been through the whole Power Supply board problems (re-soldered it, worked for a while; got a new one from Pioneer; had to re-solder that one too), and things have been working great for the last 6 months.

But now it won't power on (it powers on, and then immediately off). There is an LED lit on the convergence board (and the PS board). I replaced the IC's with STK392-180, but no change. The fuses on the PS board have not blown (took them out and tested them).

Anyone got any suggestions on what else to look for?

If there's an LED lit on the conv bd, there's a problem there. If the fuses blow there can be a problem there but no LED because of the board getting no power, and if there's no power getting to the bd because of blown fuses, the set won't turn on. But you've already established that the fuses are OK, and of course you're getting a light there, so the fuses are out of the equation.

Perhaps one of the resistors blew because of the ICs you replaced being shorted. They usually show by being burned on other brands, but have not seen this happen on a Pio, so can't say.

But if there's an LED lit up on the conv bd, then the set won't turn on and there's a problem there that has to be handled.

I would NOT change out the conv bd. DK where the eeproms are, but if they are on that bd, you'd be starting from scratch. And even I wouldn't want to do that, even with all my experience in such things.

Mr Bob

uwphoto

06-13-08, 12:13 AM

Mr Bob

06-13-08, 11:35 AM

Thank you to everyone on the solutions to the dreaded "Blue Flash" problem. On my Pioneer Elite, it was a cracked solder joint on the +12V supply pin on connector E3. Since the power supply board is connected to the back of the speaker unit, I suspect that after seven years of explosions, the vibrations finally caused the connection to fail.

Like most consumer electronics boards, these are built on single sided PCB's with no plated through holes, which have no mechanical strength.

It took longer to remove the power supply board than to fix it. A simple fix and much cheaper than shopping for a new TV.

Thanks again
Jim Christensen

Welcome! So glad you found this thread and were able to save your unit. Can't tellya how much it rips my heart out that owners are giving up and surrendering their 510/610/710 sets right and left every day, in the face of the onslaught of the fixed pixel hoard, currently going on out there in the marketplace. It's a massive slaughter of perfectly good CRT sets out there, and it's going on every day! See my screenshots of such sets one page back on this thread, and also on page 42, as to how they CAN look even at their current age, with the proper care and feeding.

Glad you found this thread. Hope lots more people do. But you're not finished. Within a year or 2 you will start to have the same problems again, and will be temped to junk your set in response to it.

UNNECESSARY!

That board can be made to be just as solid as the rest of the boards in there, and there are many! NONE of them go out later on in life, as this one does. We just need to make this one as solid a performer as those are, and just doing one solder joint that you found bad won't do it. The whole thing needs that kind of attention! Doing so will make it solid as a rock, just like all the other boards in there. These sets are only at cruising age right now, on the pictures they are capable of. They have MANY happy years ahead of them of looking as good as new - or better! - before they will need to be retired. CRT sets run at videophile standards - Pioneer's default Contrast setting, the only one in the industry where that's the case - and serviced/cleaned/calibrated by me have an easy 10 year lifespan, when well cared for.

I see that connector being bad on most of the boards that are sent to me. But it doesn't stop there. There is also the regulator that sends power downline to the conv bds, whose 5 legs are usually rife with cold solder joints as well. You can see them by shining a strong flashlight at them from the side. Little halos around the leg itself.

And certain coils, with the L designation. They get a lot hotter than most components on there, and as such are more susceptible to cold solder jointing. And anything else on there that gets hot, then cools down while the set is off, then get hot in there again once it is turned on. Which has happened literally thousands of times by now on a 7 year old set if it's viewed every day, as most big screens are.

Your observation about the vibes from the speaker are interesting, had not thought of that. But most owners of Elites don't use their internal speakers at all, they have massive sound systems for that. It's the heat and cold causing expansion and contraction that does that board in, due to the weakness of the soldering job done originally at the factory. I see it all the time in the boards that are being sent to me from afar, for my resoldering process.

If you want to do it yourself, you may have missed the page in this thread where I clearly recommend that ALL solder joints that go anywhere in there and connect anything to anything else in there need to be resoldered if they have not been already. The gray wires were soldered in later - look at their ends. They are gleaming and shiny, like good solder joints are supposed to be. Yet the whole thing was done in the same production timeframe, so it's not age causing these bad things to happen on the rest of those joints in there.

Keep going. Do the rest of the board - virtually all of it - even those tiny conns that could result in a solder bridge if you're not careful. They WILL go bad down the line, if not done now. And if they do, they could take out either the defl or the conv bds, later.

Just be supremely careful to NOT leave any solder bridges in there, from not being careful! I use a fine tipped soldering iron and good electronics solder, double magnifiers and good lighting, and go over the boards 2-3 times once finished, just to be sure. As a result, I am batting 1000 on ALL the boards that have been sent to me from afar - at least a couple of dozen by now, if not more. ALL are currently pleasing their owners just like you are pleased right now, from this resoldering process in this thread.

Or send it to me and I'll make sure it gets done right.

Good save! But don't stop there.

Don't put the ball down yet, you're not finished -

:cool:

Mr Bob

dkristun

06-14-08, 11:43 PM

Mr Bob

06-16-08, 04:40 PM

Mr. Bob,

I used your advice and fixed the shut off problem with ICs and soldering. My TV has lasted 6 months but today the Left and right side of the screen on the HD convergence is curving in. I adjusted the convergence but now when I watch anyting in 1080I I have two half moons on the TV one of the left and one on the right. When I switch to natural wide or full non HD the screen is fine.

The grid curves in on the left and right on the convergence screen only when trying to fix the convergence on FUll HD. I looks like I need to pull the grid back to the sides. Is this possible? Anyone have this problem.

I dk why he HD would be doing this while your SD does not. The same ICs affect both at all times. So I don't think it can be your ICs at fault.

I also dk why this should crop up 6 months later, when it was perfectly fine at the time. A spike on the incoming wall voltage line would do something much more erratic, if it were going to scramble things in there...

The geometry on a 10 series does not include a pincushion register for hor on green, tho it may have one for the red and blue. It does for the vert, but that won't do you much good if it's the sides that are affected.

It would be button 6 if so.

Looks like you'll have to correct this with your point sys, on all 3 colors.

Mr Bob

dkristun

06-16-08, 06:12 PM

Mr. Bob,

On the convergence for hd the cross hair is fine but when I go to multi-point I have the bending of the grid on both sides. This happened with in secons. I was listening to music on Direct Tv and then I noticed a red line on both sides of the screen. The red line was bowing. That is when I looked on the convergenced and saw my grid bowing. THe left side of the grid is pulled completely right. It is so far right the lines do not extend ot the edge of the screen. I was thinking this could be a simple fix.

I did fail to mention that the bottom and top bow slightly but it didnt affect anything other than the ticker on Sports Center. THis has been the case ever since I changed the IC's

Mr Bob

06-16-08, 06:49 PM

KenS415551

06-16-08, 08:56 PM

Hi,

I have a 510 and thanks to this thread and Mr. Bob I fixed the blue flash problem by resoldering the power board. It has now worked for six months.
What it really needs now is some overscan adjustments and deep optics cleaning. Are there any Pioneer Elite owners in the Indianapolis area willing to share the cost of a Mr. Bob tour?

Thanks!

PRO710HD

06-18-08, 06:02 PM

Mr Bob

06-19-08, 02:35 PM

Hey Bob. How are you doing?

I found this thread and repaired my PR710 I believe about a year ago. Resoldered every cold joint I could find when I had the Supply board out.

Well the wife and kid were watching TV about an hour ago and said that the TV just made PSSST sound and shut off. I asked if it was a POP? Nope, they both said PSST sound. I pulled the plug out of the wall. Plugged back in. Still will not turn on.

RUH ROH as Rastro would put it? Guess I have to pull it out from the wall and look for some leds?

"every cold joint I could find" is not nearly good enough for me, and your post testifies as to why. I have said from the beginning that you can't just do the ones you find, as these things steadily degenerate over time and some degenerate faster than others. They are like needed dental work, which never gets better on its own.

Heat and cold produces expansion and contraction, over and over and over again, every time you turn the set on and then off again later. When the solder joints are has hinky as Pio left them on the PS bd, some go out now and some go out later. You prolly got he ones that were hinky then, now there's a whole new set that have become hinky.

Look at the gray wires that were added. They were added at the same time as the rest of the board was soldered, and the unit went out of production and into your home. Yet THEIR solder conn's are bright and shiny and glossy years and years later, like good solder joints should be. If ALL the joints on that bd looked like that, we wouldn't be in this position, of that bd needing such drastic intervention. But no, the rest of the joints that were done on the original solder flow op are flat and thin, lacking any luster or shininess. And as the years go by, they just get hinkier and hinkier. Till they start to cause problems again years later, like you're seeing here.

Aside from those wires and other solder conns that were added later, anything that goes anywhere in there and connects something here to something else there, needs to be resoldered!

When I do the boards that are sent to me from across the continent, I perform a massive operation that includes ALL the solder joints in the original solder flow process that go anywhere and connect anything in there. And I never get them back needing further work later, as yours now needs.

STOP USING YOUR SET NOW! Don't use it again till this has been remedied! Doing so is playing Russian Roullette with your $5-7000 investment!

If you're lucky you'll find just the ONE red LED on that board lit - and no other LEDs lit on any other bds - which will mean that with the rest of the board resoldered, you'll prolly be just fine again afterwards.

Mr Bob

PRO710HD

06-21-08, 12:06 PM

normconklin

06-21-08, 01:34 PM

Mr Bob

06-21-08, 02:43 PM

Thanks Bob.

Yep. 1 red light on the PS is all I see. Guess I'm going back in and do the entire board.

I'm thinking there probably isn't a shorted trace on the board from the last repair since it worked so long right? Probably that another solder joint just went cold or got hinky right? :)

Right. If it worked for awhile, you didn't short anything out the last time you were in there, or it would not have turned on and stayed on.

But be careful this time. On those tiny conn's, it's really easy to do a solder bridge and not notice. I use double magnifiers - a set of 2.5x reading glasses along with a magnifier hood from an electronics supplier in conjuction with it, looking thru both at the same time, I'm sure I look very strange - good lighting, and an extremely fine point tip on my iron, and I hit the sponge with it on a regular basis, to keep the tip at the right temp.

I double and triple check the bd when I am done, before I subject it to the turn-on voltages and all other power trains it is exposed to, once re-installed.

Just one thing tho. Check your 5A fuses that are horizontal on that PS bd, as you're looking at it while mounted to the back of the set. If either of them has blown, it indicates the conv circuit blowing them. Chances are you won't get a red LED on the conv bd with fuses going to it blown, so if either of them has blown, that conv bd could be down and not indicated as such.

Even if so, your PS bd needs the rest of the resoldering done anyway.

Don't worry about the heat sinks on the PS bd, they don't really connect anything to anything in there, and require a soldering iron much beefier than the rest of the conns. I never resolder the heat sinks themselves to the PS bd, it's not necessary.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

06-21-08, 02:58 PM

I own a Pioneer Elite 510HD. Well after years with this issue my original plan was to let the TV go and buy a new one when it dies. However thanks to Mr. Bob and this thread I came to realize that it is stupid to throw away a $5000 plus investment that I made in 2000 when it could be fixed. Since I have ten thumbs and can't even spell solder I called the people who sold me the system to come out and fix the TV. The service center told me to call Pioneer to report the issue officially. I wrote an email to Pioneer support and to my surprise Pioneer responded and paid for the replacement power supply. I had to still pay for the service for someone to come out but instead of a bill originally being $900 it was half this. For years I have called Pioneer and they told me that the TV wasn't under warranty and too bad for you. Well I am glad to say Pioneer finally came through and resolved this issue to my satisfaction.

A week or 2 ago I got an email indicating you were appearing at some thread - think it was this one - but could not find any entry by you at that link. Did you make one disappear after posting one here?

Too bad you didn't just send the bd to me, I coulda saved you some $. I woulda coached you in how to remove and reinstall the bd yourself, and I resolder these bds for $275, you pay the shipping. And the settings downline stay the same as when the factory set up your set on the original regulated voltages produced by the original bd.

Oh well. Glad you got what you needed anyway.

Somebody should put the bug in the ear of Pioneer about me - that I have a 100% track record on repairing these boards, and that they should just pay me to do so for you guys. You don't need to be paying local repair stations to install new bds. I have been coaching owners for years on how to do it themselves, and they have never had a problem. Saving them what - $450 a pop? Half the $900, you said?

If they simply paid me my $275, they wouldn't have to come up with boards to send out for free. They may run out! And if they make you send in your boards after that, I doubt their refurbishing process will be as thorough as mine. I somehow don't have 100% confidence in how they do things over there, after having repaired MANY of their PS bds so far...

:rolleyes:

Pioneer is making GREAT money for their repair stations, supplying the replacement bds and then requiring you to pay their repair stations to install them!

:p

Mr Bob

PRO710HD

06-22-08, 10:08 PM

Mr Bob

06-23-08, 10:34 AM

Well I pulled the board out for the second time.

Took my time this go-around and spent about 3 hours resoldering the entire board (I think) by breaking it down into 4 quadrants. Needless to say my eyes were about to fall out when I was through.

Back in it went, powered up and is on for about 4 hours, no Pops and no shut-down. Hope this time the supply will be good for the rest of the haul.

Thanks and hats off to you again Mr. Bob.

Cyber beer for ya!

Awesome! So glad you could pull it out of the fire again. If it works for 2 weeks without additional mishap - which I have no doubts about, judging from how you did it this time - I think we can declare it ready for the next 10 years...

I'll let you buy me that beer in person if you have me in to clean and calibrate it now, to restore it to its former glory and then some -

:cool:

Mr Bob

dkristun

06-25-08, 03:00 AM

No easy fix that I know of, from what you are describing. Would have to see pix of all your scanrate grids, or be on location with the unit.

Mr Bob

Well I was able to get directions on how to enter the service menu. I didnt have the manual nor did I have the proper remote but I was able to move the green lines of the grid back to there proper place. I then used the convergence feature to line everything back up and it works. Problem is I cant seem to get the verticle grid to be exactly straight as it was when the TV was new. When I watch HD programing and the screen is full I am fine but when they go to comercial and the left and right side are cut off with black bars I notice the bars are not exactly straight up and down.

Is there any way to reset the grid in the service menu.

Again I have an SD-532hd5

Mr Bob

06-25-08, 03:07 AM

Is there any way to reset the grid in the service menu.

Again I have an SD-532hd5

No. There is some kind of reset that I have heard of in Svc Factory 2, but it will only get you to where a tech in the field will need to start the original geo/conv process.

If you want it right, get someone with LOTS of Pioneer Elite experience. It took me years to ferret out all the little do's and don'ts to that sys. It now takes me a couple of hours to do an o'scan redux, but chances are a newbie will not be able to get it coherent at all. LOTS of nips and tucks. You gotta have experience with those babies. I have, and some other old timers do, but many who do don't do CRT anymore, because it's lots quicker and dirtier to just do fixed pixel. Loads more profitable I am sure, as well.

You gotta find artists like myself who don't mind that it's not the best paying job in the world - we do it for the thrill of seeing your eyes when we're done and have moved you 1/3 closer to your set, for a half-again bigger picture than you've ever seen before.

:cool:

Mr Bob

jacquesetk

06-29-08, 10:17 AM

Mr Bob

06-29-08, 04:37 PM

Well I was able to get directions on how to enter the service menu. I didnt have the manual nor did I have the proper remote but I was able to move the green lines of the grid back to there proper place. I then used the convergence feature to line everything back up and it works. Problem is I cant seem to get the verticle grid to be exactly straight as it was when the TV was new. When I watch HD programing and the screen is full I am fine but when they go to comercial and the left and right side are cut off with black bars I notice the bars are not exactly straight up and down.

Is there any way to reset the grid in the service menu.

Again I have an SD-532hd5

All the above said, if you want to do a phone coaching session directly with me, I can guide you in how to straighten things out in there, esp. at the edges of the 4x3 box.

Contact me directly at the contact info in my sig - NOT via pm please - and we will set up a time.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

06-29-08, 10:05 PM

I would like to send you my PS board from my PRO-510 for repair. Please email the your address and method of payment to jacquesetk@aol.com. Also, please let me know what your projected turn-around time is. Thanks

Jacques

Done. Here's part of it -

If you are still running your set with the intermittencies happening occasionally, TURN IT OFF NOW AND KEEP IT OFF UNTIL TIME TO SEND IT! You are playing Russian Roullette with your multi-thousand dollar investment if it has shown signs of occasional malfuction and you are still running it. These things are like needed dental work - they never get better on their own.

ONE exception (The "One last time" rule):

Be sure to run your set FROM DEAD COLD one last time for under a minute, just to check that it’s working OK, before you remove the board and send it to me. Do NOT give it time to warm up!

Once you have confirmed that it has a solid, normal, coherent picture, while it's still on unplug it and proceed to removing the board. When you plug it back in, it will turn itself on automatically, so be sure everything is back in place before plugging the wall cord back into the 120v outlet. This will allow you to watch what's happening from the back, as it turns on for the first time after the board resolder op, and be manning the Dead Man Switch - the power cord - at the same time.

Mr Bob

MrPhred

07-09-08, 08:46 PM

Mr Bob

07-10-08, 06:16 AM

Add me to the list of unhappy PRO520HD owners. Pop, off, pop, off, pop, off...

Despite resoldering my power supply board (twice) and carefully examining every joint with a magnifying, I was unable to cure the problem. So, in desperation, I shelled out $350 for a new board from Pioneer. Problem solved. It hurt my wallet, but not nearly as bad as wheeling the set to the curb.

THANK YOU GUYS SO, SO MUCH! I'd be staring at a dead set had it not been for your help.

Seems like half the run of x20s used the x10 boards they still had leftover from the x10 model year, the other half of the run used a new board entirely. If your board was vertically mounted, chances are it used the old x10 board, the one with all the problems. If mounted on the floor of the unit, chances are it was the new board. Have not seen the new board have the problems of the old board.

Many cold solder joints are hinky without showing so visually, and other joints are OK now but will let go themselves also, as the years progress. That's the nature of this solder joint degeneration from the hinky original soldering job done by Pioneer, I'm sure without the knowledge of anybody involved at the time. Like needed dental care, it will not get better on its own, and without help it will continue to deteriorate over the months and years, in response to the expansion and contraction of heat and cold of turn-on and then turn-off again, hours later. You ever notice that computer farms have their rooms very strictly controlled in terms of temp - always just ONE temp, never varying - and they NEVER subject them to warm-up and cool-down every day. They are ALWAYS on. Keeps their temp totally stable at all times, except for occasional maintenance and repair.

Not so with consumer electronics. Heat up on turn-on, cool down on turn-off. Once day usually, possibly even more. 365 times a year, minimum, under normal use. These units are around 7 years old by now. Anyone care to do the math?

That's why I do the resoldering op on boards I work on so dilligently, and with so much APPARENT - but not really, when all is said and done - overkill. It takes that kind of overzealousness to pull off bringing that board up to the level of the other boards in there, that were soldered originally the RIGHT way, and have had no problems.

Bringing that board up to the standards it SHOULDA been at all along, OOB.

And I never get them back later as having "failed again" as others have done, who simply resoldered everything they could SEE as hinky at the time. As the board continues to age, new cold solder joints erupt from the original badly done solder joints left behind during your original resolder job if it was not done on ALL affected points, and cause problems all over again to your set, years later.

That's why I completely resolder the original solder flow job, rather than trusting ANY of its original solder joints, with the flat, thin, lusterless look to them, if they connect anything to anything in there. Which is why my resoldered boards never come back again. They take on the lifespan of the rest of the boards in there, which never had a problem years later. There are MANY boards in there, BTW, the PS bd being the ONLY one that ever experiences these kinds of problems. The rest of the many boards in there are fine and will last the unit's lifetime.

Sorry you couldn't save your board, but glad you finally prevailed!

;)

Mr Bob

rscultho

07-12-08, 09:59 PM

Mr Bob

07-14-08, 10:38 AM

Mr. Bob:

I don't know if you've posted this before, if you have I apologize for asking - please point me to the page...otherwise, could you list all of the services you do in calibrating, cleaning optics, overscan reduction, etc and what you charge for the services?

Also, do you know anyone in the Atlanta, GA, area that does these services competently?

Thanks

The Image Perfection basic calibration package for CRT triple-gun tech includes but is not limited to:

General optics cleaning, Mechanical and electrostatic focusing, complete Geometry coherence and straightening workup, Convergence, alignment of Color Temperature/Grayscale to D6500K, User Controls recentering via optimizing settings for user Brightness, Contrast, Sharpness, Color and Tint, and basic Consultation.

The basic cal package for your primary scanrate currently costs $485 plus travel, and covers your primary designated input/mode/format/aspect ratio - NTSC or HD - these days HD is usually the primary format prioritized.

For calibration of BOTH NTSC and HD, the price is an additional $285 per additional scan-rate. It's less if you have the type of display that autoconverts all 480 to 540p, like later models of Hitachi and Toshiba, as their structure - geo and conv - use a common memory bank.

Extras may include deeper optics cleaning usually for an extra $150, overscan reduction for an extra $150-200/scanrate depending on brand, color decoding realignment for an extra $150-250 depending on your brand's modality, and permanently installed glarescreen removal for usually an extra $100-150 depending on how it's installed and whether you have autoconvergence sensors in the way or not.

Ground travel time is $85/hr. RT, from my location to yours and back locally, if I am doing the driving. On tours, owners usually do the driving.

If you would like a comprehensive layout of the basics of what gets done in one of my cals and what gets charged, send for one via my regular email address in my sig. NOT by pm, please. It's an emailout that's all ready to go on a moment's notice.

A cal tour for my coming back to Atlanta is being organized as we speak. I did one last year, and owners commented in the "Mr Bob does Atlanta!" thread, if you want to look it up. Let me know if you want to be on board -

Mr Bob

zigmeisterxiv

07-18-08, 07:48 PM

Anyone in the LA area that requires an Elite 510 to be tweaked to perfection by Mr. B please see my ad under display devices for sale ..

mahalo

zig

Mr Bob

07-19-08, 02:48 PM

Anyone in the LA area that requires an Elite 510 to be tweaked to perfection by Mr. B please see my ad under display devices for sale ..

mahalo

zig

Remember the repair that the PS boards need, on this series. They only get worse over time, they never get better on their own. If yours has started to act up, have me resolder it for you BEFORE anything more serious and expensive happens to your set because of it.

ALL CRT RPTVs need optics cleaning as they age, there are NO exceptions. I do mine every year without fail. See my website for details as to why. If yours has gone 3 years without it, it's already in dire need of professional grade optics cleaning, and with the Pioneers, the deeper optics cleaning as well.

These things help flesh out the numbers on a cal tour even if you're not having an actual calibration done, making each person's share for the travel very insignificant when divvied up.

Mr Bob

zigmeisterxiv

07-22-08, 03:43 PM

ps already resoldered by pioneer ... never did the cleaning but understand the reason.

Just trying to get this out of the house.

z

Mr Bob

07-24-08, 11:06 AM

ps already resoldered by pioneer ... never did the cleaning but understand the reason.

Just trying to get this out of the house.

z

Somebody hop on this! I would if I were not already completely fixed up with CRT RPTV tech already -

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

07-29-08, 01:48 PM

DK why I didn't think of this before, but if you are currently using your set while it's in this compromised condition of blue flashing, inconsistent brightnesses, shutdowns - not only are you risking a ground letting go on a regulation circuit, causing your voltage to go into runaway, but you are also risking spikes going directly downline to the rest of your set. Hinky connections cause spikes. There's no way to protect the rest of your set from these spikes by installing a surge protector on your main power plug, which is way too far away from the circuitry concerned, downline from the PS board, to be of any help. The PS board has spike filtering on the incoming 120v from the wall plug, but that doesn't matter because it delivers its results DIRECTLY to the rest of your set, and the same filtering does not exist at the tail end of the PS board, only at the nose/incoming end.

If the connections in there are hinky and making and breaking on their own in response to heat up and cool down, or voltage or current surges, or whatever, spikes get sent directly downline into the rest of the circuitry. There are no spike protectors in there at these points in the circuitry, meant to protect from spikes caused by the solder joints letting go years after production, as is happening all over the country right now on these units. Hinky connections were never supposed to happen, and usually don't. Extra spike protection inside the circuitry after the power has been produced is just not done on regular consumer units. They are directly connected. The most you'll get will be occasional coils to deaden high frequencies, which are not nearly enough in this situation.

I have been shouting for years to not use your set when in this compromised condition where it's going out every now and then, but this is something I had not thought of before. So please listen now. I know you want it to simply go away on its own, and your set looks so sweet and innocent there, it hasn't had an episode in more than a week, maybe it just won't do it again...

IF YOU ARE USING YOUR SET WHEN IT HAS SHOWN SIGNS OF BEING INTERMITTENT IN ITS OPS, YOU'RE PLAYING RUSSIAN ROULLETTE WITH IT. SHUT IT DOWN NOW AND DON'T OPERATE IT FOR RELAXED VIEWING OF VIDEO MATERIAL AGAIN, UNTIL REPAIRED. This goes for all sets of any kind, but especially the x10 and x20 Elite units where the PS board is compromised by cold solder joints, causing the occasional spluttering or blue flash or shutdown. Degenerating solder joints are like needed dental work. They DON'T get better on their own, either of them! Watching it for video after it has shown signs of these intermittent eruptions and enjoying that it is working properly right then, in that set of calm, perfect-operation moments, is blythely floating in a sea of false security - it's an accident just waiting to happen.

It needs to be resoldered comprehensively, to a concentration and dedication level far beyond that usually performed by local technicians, and rejuvenating it by resoldering it the way I do is better than putting a new board in there, where the voltages originally used to set the unit up downline from the power supply will all be different because of its being a new board, with different components on it. Same design, different sets of actual parts. Different voltages.

Voltage regulation only has to fall within certain parameters and guidelines, so all PS boards will wind up being a little different from each other on those actual voltages produced by each PS bd. Each unit/big screen is set up to the voltages sent to it by its own PS board. Ordinarily that never needs to change. No need here either, you don't need a new board. Get your existing board rejuvenated by being resoldered correctly, to the level of all the other boards in there, and you'll never have to worry about that board again.

Hope this helps -

Mr Bob

jdmi

07-30-08, 01:07 PM

Mr Bob

07-31-08, 08:55 AM

Hi Mr Bob,

I was wondering if you knew the light output of the 510 in ft-lamberts. I'm sure you do, but specifically mine has seen light use, and I have black level at -5 and contrast at 0. I was just curious to compare this with other displays. Thanks for any info you might have.

Jim

DK that, but do know that all CRTs have basically the same output. Phosphor is phosphor. You excite it by hitting it with a scanning electron beam, and it lights up. Even ceiling mounted CRT pjs have a limit on how much light level they can put out, and if you want a really big screen, you have to double stack the pjs, with both of them aiming at the same screen and fully aligned with each other.

Or you can do what's called a blend, where each of the pjs sends the screen its half of the picture, and they blend in the middle. Either way, doublestacking doubles the light output of the same screen, allowing it to be roughly twice the size of a single pj/screen setup and still retaining the same amount of light level of a single screen half its size.

A really big screen, powered by a well aligned double stack, is a wonder to behold, as the doubled light level on such a big setup is intense. While the blacks stay roughly the same as a single stack, producing a video signal to noise/contrast ratio that is thru the roof. Like Cliff's G90 double stack in Indiana, the guy who started the Screenshot War thread over in the Front Pj section. Overclkr. When his screen is paused on a fade to black and he turns off one of his pjs, the black is still about the same. But when he pauses it on a full fade to white and turns off one of his pjs, the white becomes weak and turns to gray. And goes back to full, bright white when he turns the second one back on. This doubles the contrast ratio of the already intense blacks that CRTs inherently produce on their own, head and shoulders above most bulb driven fixed pixel sets.

Bulb-driven fixed pixel displays will have the capacity to have their overall light level be brighter than a CRT unit, but the blacks will be compromised to the same extent. So just getting a fL reading of one and comparing it to the other without taking the blacks being compromised into account, is like comparing apples and oranges.

All that said, most of the x10 Elite series I see out in the field, both on calibration tours and locally, are needing to be run with their user Black Level at plus 12-15. That the energies used to bias the CRTs have diminished, causing this needed increase in Br. This is of course exacerbated by the dirty optics inherent in 7-8 year old CRT triple gun RPTVs. But even after a professional grade optics cleaning, where the entire light path has been restored to crystal clear, like when the set was new, the energies on an 10 still usually don't fill in the dark areas with the proper amount of detail on most x10 units subjected to normal viewing timeframes over the years, when Br is run at zero. They still need that goosing up and rebalancing of the Screen controls.

ISF does not teach this, BTW, unless their curriculum has changed since I did my last ISF training.

Br should ideally be at zero, and having it not at zero can affect the grayscale adversely. The Screen controls at the focus block need to be boosted and rebalanced, then the grayscale recalibrated to re-achieve the industry standard D6500K grayscale.

If yours is not doing this darkening thing over the years, hooray for that! Very unusual, in my current experience of these units.

Mr Bob

jdmi

07-31-08, 12:46 PM

Mr Bob

07-31-08, 03:21 PM

Thanks for the above. Well, the specs on my 510 have the max light ouput at 500 ft-l, and I was comparing this with a new pio kuro plasma which has a reported max output of about 40 ft-l. It just seemed strange that a RP-CRT could go 10x brighter than a new plasma. Does this sound right? I'm not looking for a super bright TV, but these numbers don't seem intuitive.

500 is definitely a misprint. I think 15-20fl would be in the range, for CRT. 40 sounds high even for a plasma, as it is made of the same phosphors as CRT is. Definitely peak value, not running average.

Mr Bob

zigmeisterxiv

08-13-08, 08:44 PM

pro510 in Long Beach still available ... see my earlier posts

zig

Mr Bob

08-14-08, 11:34 AM

Well at the risk of repeating myself, I am going to. Again.

If your set is exhibiting intermittent behavior of any kind - shutoffs, blue flashes, brightness levels wavering here and there, the darks having intermittent colorations - STOP USING YOUR SET UNTIL FIXED.

I just had a call the other day from a guy named Jeff, who said that his horizontal 5A fuse was blown even tho there was no red LED on at the board in question - the conv bd - what would it take to fix the set? I said the conv bd now needs new ICs, here's what I charge for that, you can send me the board. You won't see the red LED because there's no voltage reaching that part of the conv bd with that fuse blown.

He then said that there was a red LED also lit up on the middle flat board, directly beneath the CRTs, with wires going up to the CRTs from it. I said, then the deflection board needs to be replaced. We never try to fix it, we just replace that one. Here's the price on that.

I then asked him whether the set had shown any of those intermittencies mentioned very early on, in this thread. He said, Oh yeah, it was getting quite entertaining before this happened. I said, then your PS board needs the resoldering work as well, and you have waited WAY too late to do it. I have been saying for 2 years to not use your set while these hinky things are happening, your PS board has now taken down both of the boards downline that get affected by it, now all 3 boards need the work.

He started counting up the $ that would cost, and basically threw up his hands and said he'd feel better taking a sledgehammer to it and at least having some fun.

Of course that statement tore my heart out, and I mentioned where he could let it go for free, including here and Craig's List, where there are guys out there who are DIYers and can bring it back to life.

DK what he has decided, but this DIDN'T NEED TO HAPPEN. Shutting it down while it was still operational, rechecking it one last time while dead cold and not letting it warm up, then seeking the proper attention to the PS board was ALL that needed to happen here. Both of the other boards would have been FINE. If he had taken action when it was hinky but still fully operational during regular operations, he woulda been looking at a repair bill of less than 1/3 of what he now has to face. Emminently affordable, even he was ready to go for that, if that were all he needed to do. Unfortunately...

Please don't keep using your set if it has already started to get hinky. It can still be saved, for only moderate amounts of money. I had 4 boards awaiting my loving touch in my living room the other day, now there are only 2, as another one goes back today to its owner. Hopefully you guys will fill my living room with PS boards for me to resolder, and we can keep these babies ALIVE! I date each one the day it arrives, so I can keep them straight and make my 2 week max commitment on sending them back again, many times getting them out way sooner than that.

Or resolder it yourself, using guidelines I put up here way back when this thread was young. Or get it resoldered locally, tho very few repair people will take the care, attention to detail and comprehensiveness about it that I do, and with them you'll likely be facing the same problems again in a year or 2, because of the nature of solder degeneration problems on that board. Boards I resolder never come back later, needing further attention years down the line, like the original boards, with the original solder flow job done by Pioneer. I restore the PS board to the level of the other boards in there, which never have had problems at all, in all these years. And there are a number of them in each of those units. They were all soldered properly in the first place, and that's the level at which I leave the resoldered PS boards I do.

One way or another, PLEASE honor and respect your $5000-$8000 investment. Honor and respect CRT as the treasure that it is - tried and true for decades, unlike today's new modalities that are still having growing pains, like blotchiness, and digital "busy-ness" in static areas, and blurriness on movement, and lack of depth, esp. in anything easily affordable. The last, great medium to have effortlessly crystal clear blacks and repairs that are only moderately pricy - rather than today's fixed pixel sets, which are hugely more expensive to work on.

And DON'T play Russian Roullette with it! Doing so can cost you dearly.

SAVE THESE SETS!

;)

Mr Bob

gremler

08-16-08, 09:36 PM

I purchased my PRO-510HD in APR 2000, fortunately I also got the extended warranty. In 2004 (about the time this thread first started) my pride and joy started having a blue flash. Called the extended warranty company and out came the Ultimate Electronics repair guy, He first replaced all 3 CRT boards, when that didn’t work he replaced all 3 CRT’s and you guessed it, that still did work either. So they took it to the shop for 2 month’s and they said they replaced every board.
It worked fine until last year when once in a great while when the wife would turn on the vacuum cleaner somewhere in the house the TV would turn off. I built an AC line filter (I was thinking that there was a problem with the line that was causing noise when a lot of current was being drawn) and that pretty much took care of that.
About 2 months ago the horizontal would intermittently (once every other day or so) for just a moment go wild then comeback. Then the shutoff problem got way worst, at one point the master power would have to be cycled, and it would work for a couple days. Then one day the master power would not reset it.
I searched the internet for PRO-510HD for info and found this very informative thread which explained the before mentioned blue flash. I removed the Power Supply and found 2 blown fuses and also re-soldered what looked like cold solder joints and replaced the fuses, it turned on but once in a while the horizontal would go screwy for a moment, it worked for a week like that then blew another fuse.
I removed the Power Supply and re-soldered the entire board, that was over a month ago, it has been working flawlessly ever since.
Thanks guys

Mr Bob

08-16-08, 11:42 PM

:cool:

Now if you want it to look its best, you can contact me directly and I'll share another set of infos with you, like what you have now found here, which coulda saved you a world of hurt for the past few years if you had only contacted me sooner!

Just repairing these babies is not nearly enough. They are Lamborghinis, and need their maintenance and tune-ups, to produce their best tricks.

Examples of the finished product on finely tuned up 510/610/710 CRT Elites can be found 2 pages back, starting with a 530HD at post #1325, from my MN/Chicago tour earlier this year. Screenshots, from photos I took on that tour.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

08-22-08, 11:50 AM

Hi, also have a Pioneer Elite PRO520-HD and has shut itself off. I read this whole thread and I actually never had any blue flash or conv issues. This set has been heavily used since Dec, 2001 and no problems at all. First issue happened few days ago and the screen went to 'snow' which was odd because if the Sat. went out if would say 'no signal'. And if it was switching inputs, the 'ANT' input shows a different kind of snow, so that was a little odd! The picture would come back in about 20 secs though. Then the next day POP and shutdown. I turned off the power and tried again few hours later thinking it was overheating... it worked for 20mins then shutdown. I then unplugged the unit and went online to research this and read this thread!
Ok, so I took out the PS board and examined it...no blown fuses. I'm new to soldering, but I examined the board and yes, lots of cold, gray solder points. However, I was wondering what that colored stuff was on some joints and I guess it is rosin? Here are two pics I took and one shows rosin on the E1 area--yuck, it looks like a mess! Why would it be there?? Also, the silver 'paths' seem like they are missing 'paint'... is this normal? So what do I do about this rosin stuff while re-soldering? Also, after reading this thread, even if Pio would send me a new free board, it would be better to get my original board resoldered for best results...so I will try myself, and if that doesn't work I'll find a prof. or send it to Mr. Bob! Thanks for any comments on these pics...

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3260/p1010007nl4.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/472/p1010008mw8.jpg

If you want to get shots of cold solder joints, it's best to do so at an angle. It's hard to see them when the shot is from straight above. Look for a "halo" around the leg itself, sometimes with an obvious separation going on in that halo.

I think they should call them "dry" solder joints rather than "cold", but they didn't ask me... It's like they "dried out".

"Cold" solder joints are dry and flat and dull and lifeless, without the rich gloss and gleam of a good solder joint, which lasts forever. These actually look pretty glossy, lots more so than I normally see on the x10 series.

In the case of the affected PS bd they are also thin. Whenever I resolder a board I always wind up adding lots of solder, prolly doubling the amount on there originally. Lots of the conns I work with on these boards are so thin that when I hit them with my iron, they separate, exposing a huge gap.

I have now seen many of the 520/620/720 series with exactly the same PS bd as the 510/610/710 series. It usually needs the resoldering work also. You'll know it's the same bd if it's mounted vertically onto the bulkhead, just like the x10 series.

The "paint" you see missing is actually the masking they use. DK why it's not there in certain areas, perhaps to make it easier to do testing with probes...

How did this finally come out, BTW?

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

08-23-08, 06:25 AM

I did the first half of Kent and Brenda's PS board today, and I want to compliment whoever did the resoldering of what was already done, on that board. They got nearly half a dozen regulators and nearly half a dozen of the big connectors. The job was a top rate job. I couldn't have improved upon it, and haven't tried. I have left those solder joints completely alone, they are ready for the next 10 years of operation, no sweat.

But the board was sent to me. Why? Because it failed again, awhile later.

The joints done comprise maybe 1/20 of all the solder joints on the board. Which went next? Who knows. Which would go next if only THEY were then done? Who knows? I could tell you the points I look for each time and always find bad each time - and they were there in this case, as always - but that would not cover the NEXT set of points that would fail, a year or 2 later. It has to be done the way I have been saying to do it for 2 years on this thread: everything that connects with anything in there from the original solder flow machine job needs to be resoldered if it has not already been resoldered - as a few of the joints have, like the ends of the gray wires that were added as mods after the flow machine run. And a few others, which still have rosin on them from being soldered afterward.

Anything that goes anywhere in there and still has a dull, lifeless dried-out look to it needs to be resoldered, so it will look bright and shiny and gleaming. Those joints usually never fail again.

All without leaving even ONE solder bridge, even on the smallest of the joints.

You can't just do a slam bang mish mash job on this kind of thing, it takes incredible diligence and patience and care to get it right, along with great lighting and superior magnification.

The job was well done, but not comprehensively done. That's the difference between the job I do and the job the typical local repair person would do. And why you don't have to worry about whether your set will fail again from this same problem later, when done the proper way. The way I do it. The way YOU need to do it, if you are doing it on your own.

It won't. It'll be rock solid from then on, as ALL the boards sent to me have been, once back in their home units. Where they are possibly even as we speak merrily cranking away, producing those great Elite CRT images...

And as you can take credit for too, if you have resoldered your own board and it is still merrily cranking away in your set as well...

;)

Mr Bob

cpizzull

08-28-08, 09:32 PM

Mr Bob

08-29-08, 10:37 AM

Mr. Bob!

Is it best to use .022, .031, or some other size? I also need to replace the ICs on my 14 year old Hitachi, so I'm going to go ahead and do my power bd on the 610.

I've read thru this thread so long ago, so was wondering if anyone knew the page number of a 'step-by-step' post on that fix. (No reason to desolder, right?) ;o)

Don't worry, I still have you on my list to eventually do the deep cleaning once I can come up with the cashola.

Thx again!
Chet

Quite frankly I don't know the size, in metrics. But I like the finer solder, for this purpose, rather than the midsize to thick stuff, which is fine for most repairs and would be fine for replacing your Hit's conv ICs. In the case of the PS bd, the joints are so small that the finer stuff works better, so you don't have to worry about getting too much on there and then having to remove some.

The solder used on this board by the factory when these units were produced was so thin that on many of the joints when I hit them with my iron, the hole in the pad gives way and a crater appears, between the leg and the pad, at the hole in the pad the leg goes thru. Like Indiana Jones falling into a pit that had been covered by camouflage. All of a sudden there's a gaping crater there, where there should instead be plenty of solder.

The job we have to do here is REtouching up the joints, not initially soldering them. So all we have to do is ADD the solder, not take any away. It is so thin in the first place that I wind up adding a lot of solder before I am thru, I go thru a couple of long pulls on the solder coil before I am done. It was way too thin on the initial go round of their machine, and lots has to be added to make it efficacious again.

But adding is all that has to happen. You don't have to remove any.

As is also the case if you have needed to oversolder something and it has dried out on you, even if not too much solder has been applied. The joint dries out, is no longer glossy and gleaming. Happens occasionally, even to me.

What you do in that case is just touch your solder wire strand to it lightly, not to add a lot of solder, but to add a little rosin. That refreshes it again, and it again becomes glossy and gleaming. If you have left a streamer from that joint, the ideal way to go is to do this to it - touch it up again, just lightly, so that some rosin gets on it without adding appreciable amounts of solder - and that streamer will disappear. Some streamers are not a problem, but long ones can actually go where they don't belong - to other joints nearby. Don't want that!

:eek:

That's called a solder bridge. Just one of those and who knows what could happen? We have a great track record because of this thead as to what happens when hinky conns have been left unremedied and spikes get sent down the line to the rest of your set. Can get expensive, but usually curable.

We do NOT have any track record on what happens when the wrong solder bridge, between 2 things that are not supposed to be connected in there - otherwise called a SHORT - happens. Could total your set. Could cause your CRTs to get zapped and die. Could cause such extensive damage that even tho repairable, nobody's going the freight on that anymore. Who knows? I don't, and don't pretend to.

I do know that someone who did a phone consult with me the other day was a novice and was going to do it himself, so I did my best to dissuade him from that and was about to give him some of my best advice on how to do it anyway, but ran out of time on that particular call. He had not removed the board from the metal plate it's secured to yet, and as such had not yet REALLY discovered what he was in for.

By the time he called the next day to continue the phone coaching session, he had had a chance to play with soldering some stuff with his kid, and had taken a better look at the job. He saw the writing on the wall and decided instead to bail and is sending me the board, which is DEFINITELY what he should be doing, being a beginner in all this.

DO NOT make this your entry level excursion into the realm of soldering anything. Too much is riding on it. That's why I use excellent lighting, 2 complete levels of magnification in doing the work itself - 2.50 reading glasses, plus a professional flip-down magnification hood - and double and triple check my work before I send the boards I resolder out again. It needs to be done at a professional grade level. If you're capable of that, more power to ya, and I'll coach you right along on it.

If not, then back slowly away from the board, NOW. Do NOT play games with your multi-thousand dollar investment. Treat it like it deserves to be treated. With respect, caution, and common sense. And money spent, where necessary, rather than always doing everything yourself.

This is NOT a job for the beginner. Replacing conv ICs on your Hit, yes. Resoldering the PS bd on your Elite, no.

;)

Mr Bob

SterlingKDM

09-01-08, 02:39 PM

kenleekenlee

09-03-08, 12:06 PM

Mr Bob

09-04-08, 03:13 PM

Hello, everyone.

I had a similar problem with my 720 and recently resoldered the entire PS board _and_ replaced the convergence ICs with 180s (and resoldered the conv board for good measure). The TV works for hours now with no shutdowns, but the problem is: no sound. Zero. I've tried all of the stereo inputs on the back using multiple sources, so I can definitely say that the problem is with the TV. Muting, unmuting, etc., I've done it.

I'm certain that the soldering job is top notch, so maybe something in the audio circuit got cooked when the set went down (by the way, where is the audio circuit?).

Perhaps this is of little significance, but each time the set went down (twice), the TV had _already been off_ for a few seconds, and made a thump noise when the DVR/PS3 shut down seconds later. I have my suspicions that somehow the audio or input circuit is involved. I haven't turned off the DVR or plugged in the PS3 yet... just in case.

So now that all that troubleshooting is out of the way, anyone want to venture a guess as to why my set no longer speaks?

Audio disappearing has not been one of the phenoms noted in this thread, from my having read it from the beginning. Perhaps in your soldering of the PS bd you did a hard to see solder bridge and disabled the power supply that operates the audio.

I would take a continuity tester to the long rows of connector points at the plug-ins and make sure not one of them connects to an adjoining one that it shouldn't. I have had that happen where visually it looks fine, but the conitunuity test shows a short between 2 of them even tho it looks completely fine to the naked eye. On those you have to remove the solder from them with solder braid or a solder sucker till they are NON connecting again, and then resolder those points over again, makiing sure they pass the continuity test - or fail it, as the case may be, as what you want is NON contunuity between those points - before going on.

The grounds have a series of adjoining conns that are all grounds, so they can be bridged OK. And some of the lower voltages have adjoining conn points, and this is all listed and printed ON THE BOARD, making verification on those quick and easy. Obviously no problem in allowing those adjoining ones to touch each other.

The 9v's are doubles and the 5v's are both double and triple, so adjoining ones that are printed to be OK as such on the board are the ONLY ones that can be allowed to solder bridge, on the rows of connectors. The rest absolutely have to maintain distinct separations between them, meaning NO beeps from your tester on the adjoining lugs in the conn series's aside from what I've just mentioned.

Or elsewhere on the board where adjoining conns should not be touching each other. The pads get very small in there, and if you have any questions, use your continuity tester to be sure. I use dual layer magnification in my ops, and even so have found shorts that LOOKED good to even my magnification-aided eyes.

Again, we have NO track record on what would happen if ANY points that should NOT be connected DO get connected simply because they are small and hard to see. So be sure everything has been taken care of before you re-install the board and fire it up.

Mr Bob

CaliRaftDude

09-05-08, 02:27 AM

I remember reading this thread a few years back thinking, "thank god - I must have got a good one!" Then starts the blue flashes, the pop and die, etc...

Chianti goes great with crow and humble pie..

I have pictures and all that but this is so well documented right now I cannot see the value other than my own personal documentation. The job took a couple of hours - I haven't soldered a lot but used to work on nuclear equipment back in the day - also NQCI qualified. I re-soldered about half the board and scrubbed everything down with some alcohol and a q-tip.. I am pretty sure its in good shape now.

This is the worst board I think I may have ever seen. Not just the problem areas, well documented here, but practically the entire board was full of inadequate solder and/or a cold joints. To say I am disappointed is an understatement. What *exactly* was 'elite' about this?

I'll concede that when the tv is performing and tuned it still outperforms most tvs I see at stores, but this sort of construction definitely makes me think twice about any further Pioneer purchases..

Anyhow - I want to thank the massive contributions to this thread - you guys are serious studs worthy of much beer. I'll also send a massive electronic middle-finger to pioneer.. bad nerds, no donut.

Thanks again guys..

Dan-0

Mr Bob

09-06-08, 11:04 AM

The job took a couple of hours - I haven't soldered a lot but used to work on nuclear equipment back in the day - also NQCI qualified. I re-soldered about half the board and scrubbed everything down with some alcohol and a q-tip.. I am pretty sure its in good shape now.

This is the worst board I think I may have ever seen. Not just the problem areas, well documented here, but practically the entire board was full of inadequate solder and/or a cold joints. To say I am disappointed is an understatement. What *exactly* was 'elite' about this?

I'll concede that when the tv is performing and tuned it still outperforms most tvs I see at stores, but this sort of construction definitely makes me think twice about any further Pioneer purchases..

Dan-0

You're so CLOSE! Why on earth would you stop the race halfway to the finish line??? You need to solder the rest of the board, as I have been saying here for years. Whatever is not bad yet, WILL be. Resolder everything that was part of the original solder job, that connects anything to anything in there.

This is not something you should hold against Pioneer per se. The rest of the boards in the unit are working fine, have great, permanent-grade solder joints, and have been percolating along for years without ANY problems. This is the only board, of the many in there, that has had problems. It may have been sourced out to a soldering company they no longer use, because this was the last of the bad boards, with 2 full years of newer models NOT having these problems, before they stopped making CRT RPTVS.

It's a fine unit. Get the rest of that resoldering done, get it cleaned and calibrated, and enjoy it for a few more years!

:cool:

Mr Bob

kessrob

09-07-08, 10:25 PM

Hopefully someone here can help me out. I cannot find any information on this model and this forum is the closest I have come. My Pro 200 worked fine until several weeks ago and it just shut off. When you power it on you hear 2 relays click three times then nothing else. No picture or sound or anything. If you power it off and back on the same thing happens again. I pulled out power supply board and all connections look secured. I also looked at them through a jewelers loop and do not see any bad connections. Does this have the same power supply board that is being discussed in the other models. Let me know if anybody can help. It would be appreciated.

Mr Bob

09-07-08, 11:31 PM

srarfi

09-07-08, 11:58 PM

FYI About Two years ago my Pioneer Pro started shutting down and Bob talked me through taking the board out and shipped it to him and he resoldered everything. I can say it was for a fair price... Now that I haven't had any problems since.

Sooooo.... If you are considering on "trusting Bob" to do the work for you... and get it done right the first time! No worries, as Bob can be trusted. Denny Wallace Rockford, IL sra.rockford @ Gmail.com

Mr Bob

09-08-08, 12:09 AM

kenleekenlee

09-08-08, 12:14 PM

Mr Bob

09-08-08, 12:23 PM

Hey, a little update on my "no sound" problem. Turns out it was the U-verse box. Had a tech out to replace the thing, and all's fine and dandy now. Since I've had U-verse (about three months), it's been nothing but problems: two dead boxes and frequent service outages. Blehh.

Anyways, the Pro-720HD is humming along nicely, and is undergoing some "upgrades". The cabinet is being blacked out with some nice velvet material and a lens hood is in the works to get rid of some halo-ing I can see in certain high-contrast scenes. Anyone have any other suggested mods for this set?

Halo-ing is caused worst by dirty optics, whose cleaning is ABSOLUTELY essential at your set's age. A crystal clear light path beats the pants off any duvetyne op to your optical cavity, tho yes all avenues should be explored, including duvetyne and lens hood, if you want the deepest blacks possible.

But optics cleaning is paramount, and head and shoulders more powerful in reducing halo-ing than anything else you could do.

Mr Bob

PS - what the heck is a U-verse box??? I woulda thought you would have already tried HU'ing up alternate sound from a DVDP or VCR or something, to test the audio...

rnewste

09-08-08, 12:23 PM

Mr Bob

09-08-08, 12:32 PM

ken,

I have a PRO-710 and did the black velvet lining a few years ago. It does make a significant difference in cutting down reflections. If you use staples to hold the material in place, be sure to use a black Sharpie pen to cover over the shiny metal area of each staple. I also made a small vertical wall covered in the same velvet that I placed between the 3 CRT assemblies and the front screen.

Ray:)

They do make a version of duvetyne with sticky on the back side, that just slaps in there. No need for staples.

Ray, didn't you also have me clean your optics as well, including the deeper optics, when we did your calibration back then?

Mr Bob

rnewste

09-08-08, 12:36 PM

Yep!

As Ken was asking about additional tweaks, the combination of a professional ISF calibration plus the velvet lining makes the PRO-710 really "pop". I bought my black velvet material from a Broadway supply company that is used in theaters. Quite heavy, but it really blocks internal reflections inside the set.

Ray

Mr Bob

09-08-08, 12:37 PM

Yep!

As Ken was asking about additional tweaks, the combination of a professional ISF calibration plus the velvet lining really makes the PRO-710 really "pop".

Ray

:cool:

kenleekenlee

09-08-08, 06:24 PM

Yeah, I think my brain was cooked this weekend (too much sun, it's been so nice in Houston) so I probably didn't do some easy troubleshooting. If I recall, I did in fact use another source (my MP3 player), but I guess the gain is too low to be heard through the TV speakers. Well, better to have fixed the problem and made a fool, than not fix the problem at all, I guess. Besides, I probably look like a fool grinning in front of my fully-functional $200 Elite Pro-720HD.

Mr Bob

09-08-08, 07:21 PM

Besides, I probably look like a fool grinning in front of my fully-functional $200 Elite Pro-720HD.

You STOLE that thing!

:D

Mr Bob

ppaxton

09-09-08, 04:20 PM

Boy did I get screwed! I purchased my Pioneer Elite 610 from Ultimate Electronics with a 5 year extended warranty. You were supposed to get half the money for the warranty back if you didn't make any service calls. My 5 years ended in July. I was informed that I had to have a final service check done which included the lenses being cleaned before I would get my rebate gift card toward a future purchase at Ultimate Electronics. (Not quite the same thing as half your money back right!)

But no problem - I am always in the market for new AV.

So I call Warrantech to schedule the final service and they tell me Ultimate Electronics never registered my warranty. I have to call back to them and them to register it. No problem, make the call back to Ultimate Electronics, they will register the warranty so Warrantech can come out. They'll call me as soon as it is in the system so I can place the call.

Well it's been two months and I haven't heard from them, so I call today. Not only did they never send the paper work to register the warranty with Warrantech, but apparently there was only a 30 day window from when the warranty expired to get the rebate, and I am SH_T out of luck.

It sounds like a total scam to me. Apparently I paid for a warranty that Ultimate Electronics never planned to honor. I probably should have had them fix the blue flash problem for me, but it seems all the "authorized" service agents weren't fixing it correctly anyway.

Mr Bob

09-09-08, 04:27 PM

It sounds like a total scam to me. Apparently I paid for a warranty that Ultimate Electronics never planned to honor. I probably should have had them fix the blue flash problem for me, but it seems all the "authorized" service agents weren't fixing it correctly anyway.

Send the PS bd to me. I'll fix it correctly. I doubt they woulda done what is really needed anyway, warranty repairs - like their rates - are usually not very comprehensive -

Mr Bob

steve5520

09-13-08, 02:49 PM

Mr Bob

09-13-08, 03:06 PM

SO...............

I pulled the PS board (610 Pro) and spent some hours soldering every joint. I checked it (using a magnifying glass) and two other people checked it again. All looked well, nothing missed, no solder bridges.
Put it back in and got all the connectors back where they belong and then the moment of truth. Plugged in the power cord and NOTHING! Set doesn't come on, no clicks, hum, or smoke. Nothing at all. Checked all the fuses, they are fine.

Hints or suggestions, anyone?

Was it working when you pulled the board? Here's an excerpt from what I send out to those sending me boards:

"If you are still running your set with the intermittencies happening occasionally, TURN IT OFF NOW AND UNPLUG IT UNTIL TIME TO SEND THE BOARD! If it has shown signs of occasional malfunction and you are still running it, you are playing Russian Roullette with your multi-thousand dollar investment.

The ONE exception (The "One last time" Rule):

Before you remove the board and send it to me, be sure to run your set FROM DEAD COLD one last time for under a minute, just to check that it’s working OK. Do NOT give your set time to warm up!

Once you have confirmed that it has a solid, normal, coherent picture, while it's still on, unplug it and proceed to removing the board. When you get the board back and plug it back in, the set will turn itself on automatically, so be sure everything is back in place before plugging the wall cord back into the 120v outlet. This allows you to keep watch FROM THE BACK as the set powers up again for the first time after the board resolder repair."

If the set was still running properly when you removed the board for work, then something you did caused it to not be working now. Plain and simple. That's troubleshooting 101 when you are a tech and this kind of thing happens, which it sometime does in this business.

You've missed something. Have you gone over the connector strings with a continuity tester to make sure you don't have any invisible solder bridges? I've had that happen.

Every time I have done my resoldering op where the unit was working properly for less than a minute from dead cold and then the board was immediately removed for the resoldering work, the unit has worked properly once the owner has re-installed the board.

With one caveat: as long as the board was not damaged in shipment. Which has happened 3 times, the fault being with the shipper on all counts. Twice via Fedex - the board was damaged when it arrived back to the owner, had to be sent back to me for additional repair, then the same thing happened AGAIN! Board was buckled from having been dropped on its side the first time, had massive breaks in it in the middle section the second time. I repaired both breaks - or sets of breaks, really. Finally I sent it back via UPS and it worked fine from then on.

The other time was when that board was damaged upon arrival here, again from being dropped on its side, and had to be repaired by me additionally then, too.

In both cases the unit worked fine once the repaired boards ultimately got back to their owners.

In ALL cases of the boards being sent to me with the owners following my instructions to the letter, we have been able to save those units. I stopped counting at 2 dozen. There are 3 boards here awaiting my attention right now.

You've missed something, if it was working properly before and is not working properly now. Something you did is causing this, it doesn't happen on its own.

Luckily this is a very well designed board, which is not prone to domino-effect types of damage if something is not right, so chances are good that if you find what you missed, it will come back and work properly again.

I would be glad to troubleshoot it for you, but can't include yours in the others, as I have not serviced any boards where the unit didn't work when the boards were sent. Would be glad to do that for you, but no promises.

Mr Bob

steve5520

09-13-08, 04:29 PM

I agree, Bob. It is something I did.
What, is the big question.

Using an ohmeter to check continuity, it not only shows continuity on some pins for a given connector, but continuity to pins of other connectors. I bridged something somewhere, if I can luck out and find it.

This is actually the second board. I had to have it fixed when it was around 4 years or so old.

To be quite honest, I am not intending on putting any money into it. I had full intentions of going plasma (I can see your face. Horrors no, Mr Bob says). I was hoping to just have this one keep going a little while longer and then it was to be a hand-me-down to my son. I know he has no interest in spending money, even though I'd be giving him a free tv.

It has served me well. After a little over a year, a person you likely know, Chuck Williams did the calibration. Picture was excellent. Even now, years later, picture is still good. Have to pull out the AVIA disc now and then and check contrast and brightness, but other than that, fine.
Even acting up. It did absolutely nothing but shut down by itself. No flashing, no popping, just shut off like the remote turned it off. Would run a week and a half or two weeks, and then shut down again. In between, picture was completely normal.
Then I read your comments and figured maybe give a try to fixing it.

I guess I just get my new one a little earlier than I planned.

Thanks for helping. I'll continue to check the board. Or maybe my son will figure out it would be worth a minimal amount of money for him to fix, but I doubt that.

Nearly forgot, it was working when I pulled it out. It had shut down, so I took your advise and did the "one last time".

Mr Bob

09-13-08, 05:51 PM

This is actually the second board. I had to have it fixed when it was around 4 years or so old.

If you had had me resolder it at that time, you would never have had this happen again, like you have here.

BTW, JUST shutting down is not clearing it of potential further damage every time it does so. It shuts down in response to going into protection. What causes it to go into protection CAN take down a board downline from it, every time. Each of those times it shut down, it may not have come back up again. You have been VERY lucky so far.

Well, till now anyway...

Good luck, whichever way it turns out -

Mr Bob

steve5520

09-13-08, 08:56 PM

If you had had me resolder it at that time, you would never have had this happen again, like you have here.

Mr Bob

But what would have made me think then that the board that was being put in was NO BETTER than the original that failed? Since it was well out of warranty, I searched around my area for the best "Pioneer guy" I could find to fix it. When I described the problem (flashing; and that the first time it shut down I unplugged it and left it unplugged), he immediately knew what the problem was. He told me it "was a common problem and Pioneer was fully aware of it". My assumption, and years later I find out a very bad one, was that the replacement board was fixed, corrected, or somehow better than the original. WRONG!

From what I read here, if I were to spend $352 and buy a board from Pioneer today, it would be no better than the original and STILL REQUIRE SOLDERING before installation to insure proper performance and reliability. :confused:

As I said, overall, the set served me well. We put a lot of hours on a tv and I figure we are already approaching what would be a normal 10 year cycle.

But maybe all of this is what keeps me from considering a Pioneer plasma, regardless of how many people say they are the best. High price is one thing, but poor manufacturing that goes uncorrected for that many years is another thing.

Thanks again for you help and comments, Bob.

Mr Bob

09-14-08, 04:34 AM

But what would have made me think then that the board that was being put in was NO BETTER than the original that failed? Since it was well out of warranty, I searched around my area for the best "Pioneer guy" I could find to fix it. When I described the problem (flashing; and that the first time it shut down I unplugged it and left it unplugged), he immediately knew what the problem was. He told me it "was a common problem and Pioneer was fully aware of it". My assumption, and years later I find out a very bad one, was that the replacement board was fixed, corrected, or somehow better than the original. WRONG!

From what I read here, if I were to spend $352 and buy a board from Pioneer today, it would be no better than the original and STILL REQUIRE SOLDERING before installation to insure proper performance and reliability. :confused:

As I said, overall, the set served me well. We put a lot of hours on a tv and I figure we are already approaching what would be a normal 10 year cycle.

But maybe all of this is what keeps me from considering a Pioneer plasma, regardless of how many people say they are the best. High price is one thing, but poor manufacturing that goes uncorrected for that many years is another thing.

Thanks again for you help and comments, Bob.

OK, so your board was not resoldered at that time, it was replaced with what Pioneer was calling a fully capable replacement PS board. Was unclear about that.

Well, I had my doubts about the replacement boards that Pioneer was sending out, and was giving them the benefit of the doubt, but your comments have confirmed those doubts for me. Looks like they simply got them from off the same shelf the originals came from. Or just resoldered the problem areas - like local repair techs do - rather than the comprehensive, complete resoldering job I do of the original solder flow machine job.

No way a properly soldered board woulda gone South within 4 years. Look at the rest of the boards in that unit. And there are many of them. NONE of them are having these problems, and they ALL have the same soldering needs that the PS board has.

Thanks for enlightening us about this.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

09-14-08, 04:47 AM

This is actually the second board. I had to have it fixed when it was around 4 years or so old.

This is what confused me. "I had to have IT fixed..." you meant you had to have your set fixed, I guess. I thought you meant you had to have your board fixed, but you said it was the second board...

Pronouns can be so ambiguous...

:(

Mr Bob

steve5520

09-14-08, 02:34 PM

Mr Bob

09-14-08, 05:31 PM

Sorry, Bob. I think you have the whole picture now though.

Bought the Elite Pro610 and ran it a little over a year. Had it calibrated and was happier than a kid in a candy store. Calibration sure showed what the tv was capable of doing.

At about 4 years of age, the set started to flash. Very intermittent at first, then progressively worse. The first time the protection circuits shut it down, I unplugged it and left it that way.

Had it serviced and the ps board was replaced. Tech did advise at that time about being a common problem, well known to Pioneer. After the new board install, I would have never guessed the same problem to reoccur several years later.

So yes, I have to think that the replacement (that cost me somewhere around $400 back then) was no better than the original. :mad:

This whole deal has sort of soured me to Pioneer. Good pictures, you betcha. Quality product, well, not so much.

I would normally expect a good 10 years out of a tv of this price range. Now that I think about it, I guess I didn't even come close. Usage wise, I figure my tv runs way above average hours, so I may have 10 years on it by now. But on TWO boards.

Oh well.

I'm going to put it in the garage. If anyone in the SOUTHEAST MIGHIGAN (Detroit suburbs) needs one for parts or would care to take a crack at getting it going again, please send me a pm. I'll probably keep it around for a month or two.

Pioneer will now replace that board for you for free, as far as the part goes. Unfortunately they require that you use their people to install it, which places that expense higher than sending the board to me.

But you might approach Pioneer for both replacing that board for you for free now, and since you had that other problem, to possibly cover installation of it for no charge also, via them taking care of one of their warranty stations.

Mit honored warranty for 3 years after their sets were out of warranty when the V10 chasses were causing CRTs to be scarred and needing replacement. Wouldn't surprise me if in your case Pio was willing to bend over backwards for you, here.

Worth a try -

Mr Bob

s_c_m

09-18-08, 03:01 PM

I would like to try the PS board re-solder myself.
Is it difficult to find/identify the board in a PRO710HD?
Any pics?

Mr Bob

09-18-08, 03:22 PM

I would like to try the PS board re-solder myself.
Is it difficult to find/identify the board in a PRO710HD?
Any pics?

Hope you're a professional grade soldering person. That's what it takes to get it right and have it last.

NOBODY who is a beginner at solder technique should try resoldering the PS board himself. Too much is riding on it. If you intend to do it yourself, you should already be an experienced tech, hobbyist or in some other way HIGHLY experienced in good solder technique. And be ready to give it good lighting, great magnification, numerous double and triple checks, and all the dedication, respect and reverence I give the boards that are sent to me.

Follow the power cord from the wall. It will lead you straight to it, there's nothing in between.

Mr Bob

s_c_m

09-18-08, 03:33 PM

Actually, my hand skills aren't good enough, but I might be able to convince one of the truly skilled technicians who work with me to do me a favor.
(admittedly a poor definition of "do it myself")
Thanks for the info - I will let you know how it works out when I get to this job.

Steve

Hope you're a professional grade soldering person. That's what it takes to get it right and have it last. NOBODY who is a beginner at solder technique should try resoldering the PS board himself. Too much is riding on it. If you intend to do it yourself, you should already be an experienced tech, hobbyist or in some other way HIGHLY experienced in good solder technique.

Follow the power cord from the wall. It will lead you straight to it, there's nothing in between.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

09-18-08, 03:47 PM

Actually, my hand skills aren't good enough, but I might be able to convince one of the truly skilled technicians who work with me to do me a favor.
(admittedly a poor definition of "do it myself")
Thanks for the info - I will let you know how it works out when I get to this job.

Steve

Most "truly skilled technicians" will only do the cold solder joints that are visibly and obviously bad. If you have read anything I've written on this thread so far, you know that that's NOT the proper way to proceed.

If they handle it correctly and take the necessary time do to it as completely as I have repeatedly stated here that it needs to be done, it CAN be done properly on your end. But not the way it is typically done by regular repair techs.

Mr Bob

rnewste

09-18-08, 07:02 PM

s_c_m,

What Mr. Bob is (politely) saying is to let someone like him do it right the first time. What he charges for this tedious solder work is quite reasonable. But keep in mind that if you have someone who screws up the board, I have a spare PRO-710 P.S. board sitting in my closet, for sale.............

Ray

Johnla

09-19-08, 01:36 AM

I would like to try the PS board re-solder myself.
Is it difficult to find/identify the board in a PRO710HD?
Any pics?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=6782660&postcount=323

http://home.comcast.net/~larryh791/elitepsfix.html

drvcrash

09-19-08, 10:53 AM

My 710hd has started to go bright dim bright dim now. Is this a sign my Ps needs to be done also? or something else.

rnewste

09-19-08, 12:36 PM

Yep,

In a few months, you will see the screen go VERY bright - then hear a "pop" and the set will shut down. You need to push the large Power button off for 5 minutes, then power back on again. Only solution is to resolder the power supply board, as has been covered in this and other Pioneer Elite threads.

Ray

Mr Bob

09-19-08, 01:35 PM

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=6782660&postcount=323

http://home.comcast.net/~larryh791/elitepsfix.html

This is a prime example of how NOT to do it. If you ONLY do the E3 connector, you will again have problems relatively shortly, in terms of your set's actual expectable lifespan of a minimum of 10 years. Usually within a year more of the same problems crop up, and it has to be done all over again on the new crop of bad conns. Which will just keep coming if you don't do it comprehensively.

Read other posts by me in this thread on how to do it right. It CAN be done right by you owners out there if you have professional grade soldering skills, and do it to the level at which I do it.

But if you only do a few of the worst offenders in there in terms of the cold solder conns, no matter how well you do them, that's not even CLOSE to being enough of them to matter.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

09-19-08, 01:44 PM

My 710hd has started to go bright dim bright dim now. Is this a sign my Ps needs to be done also? or something else.

Yep,

In a few months, you will see the screen go VERY bright - then hear a "pop" and the set will shut down. You need to push the large Power button off for 5 minutes, then power back on again. Only solution is to resolder the power supply board, as has been covered in this and other Pioneer Elite threads.

Ray

Ray is speaking from experience, as either I resoldered his board or he did it himself according to my advice, don't quite remember, it was so long ago. His set has been working flawlessly every since. Purring like a kitten, with no further problems.

STOP USING YOUR SET FOR VIEWING, NOW.

Otherwise you are playing Russian Roullette with it. The spikes caused by these bad connections can be lethal to boards downline from it, and have been known to total out these sets.

I have been repeating that same message for years, here. But newbies to this thread keep coming on board, looking at only the latest posts, and missing that.

So here it is again.

STOP USING YOUR SET FOR VIEWING NOW, before your set incurs further and very expensive damage. Think of how much you paid for your set. The fact that it works fine for a long time until you see the abberations again, is coming from a VERY false sense of security.

Running it for viewing while hurt is taking the life of your set in your hands and playing Russian Roullette with it -

Mr Bob

Johnla

09-19-08, 10:41 PM

This is a prime example of how NOT to do it.

He wanted some pictures so he would know which was the right board to remove, so he could take it out and have someone else solder it for him. And those pretty much are the only detailed pictures that anyone ever really posted showing the board. I was not the original poster of that link or the pictures. Also, the original poster DID indeed mention that he also soldered quite a bit more than just the E3 connector!

Read other posts by me in this thread on how to do it right. It CAN be done right by you owners out there if you have professional grade soldering skills, and do it to the level at which I do it.

But if you only do a few of the worst offenders in there in terms of the cold solder conns, no matter how well you do them, that's not even CLOSE to being enough of them to matter.

Excuse me, but I don't at all like the way you are coming after me with this lecture of how to solder! You have absolutely no idea if I know how to solder properly or not. But just for the record, I do and I have done on both a 510 and a 710 PS board!

Mr Bob

09-20-08, 10:14 PM

He wanted some pictures so he would know which was the right board to remove, so he could take it out and have someone else solder it for him. And those pretty much are the only detailed pictures that anyone ever really posted showing the board. I was not the original poster of that link or the pictures. Also, the original poster DID indeed mention that he also soldered quite a bit more than just the E3 connector!

Excuse me, but I don't at all like the way you are coming after me with this lecture of how to solder! You have absolutely no idea if I know how to solder properly or not. But just for the record, I do and I have done on both a 510 and a 710 PS board!

John, I truly owe you an apology. I didn't mean to have what I said be aimed at you. I meant to aim it at anybody who wanted to do their own soldering, that's it. I shoulda made that clear. If you have resoldered 2 boards already successfully, then my hat's off to ya!

Your pictures were great to have up here, to show what the board looks like.

Lots of people think only that one connector needs to be hit. I have actually had boards sent to me where that one and a few other connectors and a few regulators were all that were resoldered, and of course the board went out again later. That's what I was talking about - not you in particular. Please forgive my insensitivity here, in not making that clear.

I am seeing a lot of damage being done by those who continue to use their sets in this intermittent condition, and that's what I primarily wanted to address. Guess I got pretty heated about that, and wasn't looking where I was going...

Sorry, buddy, you're obviously a man after my own heart -

:o

Mr Bob

Johnla

09-20-08, 11:09 PM

John, I truly owe you an apology. I didn't mean to have what I said be aimed at you. I meant to aim it at anybody who wanted to do their own soldering, that's it. I shoulda made that clear. If you have resoldered 2 boards already successfully, then my hat's off to ya!

Your pictures were great to have up here, to show what the board looks like.

Lots of people think only that one connector needs to be hit. I have actually had boards sent to me where that one and a few other connectors and a few regulators were all that were resoldered, and of course the board went out again later. That's what I was talking about - not you in particular. Please forgive my insensitivity here, in not making that clear.

I am seeing a lot of damage being done by those who continue to use their sets in this intermittent condition, and that's what I primarily wanted to address. Guess I got pretty heated about that, and wasn't looking where I was going...

Sorry, buddy, you're obviously a man after my own heart -

:o

Mr Bob

Again, those pictures I linked to were not mine. But I think they are the only ones than anyone has posted, certainly they are the only ones that show where the board is while it is still in the set and also what it looks like out of the set. So they do have a value to help guide someone as far as locating the PS board and taking it out.

Now that being said, that don't also mean that just because someone was able to get their board out, that they also should try and solder it themselves. Because it really takes someone who has very good experiance with printed circuit board soldering, either in a repair capability or as someone who perhaps builds and solders their own projects on circuit boards.

Just because someone may have taken something like a dual heat 150/230 watt Weller soldering gun, and soldered up a broken tail light wire in a car on some 14 garge wire or something similar in basic wire soldering. That does not also mean that they should even in any way attempt to try soldering anything on a circuit board!

As far as the re-soldering repair goes, this PS board is not something to try and learn on!!!!!
If you don't know how to do it, and are totaly confused by it, then you probably should not even try to attempt to do it!!!

However a removal and replacement of just the board itself, should not be a real problem for most people. And if they know someone with substancial circuit board soldering experiance, fine take it out yourself and then give it to them, and tell them to closely inspect and go over every joint.

Mr Bob

09-21-08, 12:41 PM

Again, those pictures I linked to were not mine. But I think they are the only ones than anyone has posted, certainly they are the only ones that show where the board is while it is still in the set and also what it looks like out of the set. So they do have a value to help guide someone as far as locating the PS board and taking it out.

Now that being said, that don't also mean that just because someone was able to get their board out, that they also should try and solder it themselves. Because it really takes someone who has very good experiance with printed circuit board soldering, either in a repair capability or as someone who perhaps builds and solders their own projects on circuit boards.

Just because someone may have taken something like a dual heat 150/230 watt Weller soldering gun, and soldered up a broken tail light wire in a car on some 14 garge wire or something similar in basic wire soldering. That does not also mean that they should even in any way attempt to try soldering anything on a circuit board!

As far as the re-soldering repair goes, this PS board is not something to try and learn on!!!!!
If you don't know how to do it, and are totaly confused by it, then you probably should not even try to attempt to do it!!!

However a removal and replacement of just the board itself, should not be a real problem for most people. And if they know someone with substancial circuit board soldering experiance, fine take it out yourself and then give it to them, and tell them to closely inspect and go over every joint.

Yup. Couldn't agree more.

And when he says to have them "go over" every joint, he means RESOLDER every joint. Many of the ones that will go bad next year have not gone bad yet.

At least virtually every joint - I have specified many times in this thread what does and doesn't need resoldering on that board. Virtually every joint means just what it says. If you don't want to search out what doesn't need resoldering - which again I have specified many times on this thread - do it all.

John and I are in complete agreement. "Yeah. What he said -".

:cool:

Mr Bob

s_c_m

09-24-08, 06:40 PM

Mr Bob

09-24-08, 10:57 PM

So, now I have the PS board out and am inspecting it.
Indeed, a lot of the solder joints look dull and may be suspect.

Also - looking at E1, it appears that pins 6 and 7 are bridged.
Is that the way it should be from the factory?
Pins 1 and 2 (two at one end of the connector anyway) are connected by a trace, and the other 2 pins don't look the same.

The pins are labeled on the back of the board where you do the soldering, right next to them. A whole row of labels on all the multiple plug-ins except the E12, which is a triple-pin, and which has sometimes come apart with the disconnect of its plug from its jack.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

09-27-08, 01:54 PM

Got a new phenom yesterday. The owner had continued to use his set while in our now infamous intermittent condition - this thread is getting a lot of airplay on the search engines, thankfully - and while it didn't take any of the other boards downline from it out, it DID make the picture disappear.

When I arrived, the set would turn on successfully and stay on, but there were no input graphics upon turn-on, nor would hitting Menu result in the menu graphics being up there. It was an open, highly sunshine-lit room, so I couldn't see ANYTHING on the screen, but James said that they had seen a gray screen in the past.

Turning the set off resulted in a visible collapse of whatever was up there that couldn't be seen in broad daylight, but no other adverse conditions existed. No red LEDs were lit on any board in the back, and the unit was not shutting itself off at all. The green light in the front would stay green, the HV was fine, just no picture.

I assured the owner that chances were good that the resoldering op would fix the problem and that he needed it done in any case. So here was what it would cost, and no there would be no refunds on that part of it if it DIDN'T make the set work again - that that would become the minimum charge to continue the work and discover what else needed to be done.

Fortunately, the resoldering op DID work. The PS board was resoldered, and from then on the set worked fine, no additional costs needed to be considered. The set is now merrily operating away, doubtless providing cartoon therapy on this Saturday morning.

Just wanted y'all to know the latest wrinkle. Even if there's now no pic, chances are the resoldering op will fix your set.

Just don't get cocky and think that you can continue to use your set while in this intermittent condition anyway now, and thus not be playing Russian Roullette with it, as does anyone continuing to use their set for video viewing with intermittent problems going on. Who knows which conn will go intermittent first, and what it will do? It only takes one.

This is the FIRST and ONLY time I have seen this one. By using it while hurt for weeks - sometimes it's months, with some owners - he was taking just as much of a chance as anyone else, of damaging other boards in the set due to the spikes sent out by the hinky conns on the PS board. He got MASSIVELY lucky on this one. Don't take any chances with YOUR set. Turn it off and unplug it until fixed, if it's still going intermittent on you in any way, shape or form.

Mr Bob

bliz

09-29-08, 11:06 AM

Mr Bob

09-29-08, 01:07 PM

So Bob(the poineer geru)
i to have a pro510hd and i have spent the better part of the last 2 days reading all the helpful posts.
I to have had all the power down/flash/pop problems. A year ago paid to have a authorized rep out only to fix or diagnose anything, as when he came out everything was working. For the past year it continued with more frequency, as the rep told me only to call whet it went out again as they could not find a problem unless there was a malfunction., now the malfunction seen to be constant. I seen to have all the psb problems, but i don't recall reading in the posts ofa new wrinkle. The additional wrinkle, is that when powered down, and restarted the green front light comes on, no video, but i seem to audio. I do not recall other posts having this problem. Do you think it is still the ps board, something else. I will be opening the back later today, to have a look(look at the internal red led's). I am not sure i wand to fight with poineer cust svc, and pay the ill informed authorized reps to put a replacement board in for the $$$ labor fee, so i may want to send this to you for the real fix. Bared on the above described no video/audio only problem, do you think it is most likely the ps board? If so where can i send it. I was going to try this my self, but after reading some of the continued problems of the other posts that have tried the self fix, i'm thinking i only want to this once and right the first time.
Thanks for your thoughts[/font]

I had a hard time making out what you are trying to say, but I think you had intermittent problems and now have audio but a steady black screen problem? No video? No menu or graphics of any kind, a completely black screen, even tho the green light stays on?

That's exactly what I just cured, in my post above.

The hinky conns are all over that PS board, and we never know exactly what kinds of phenoms will occur based on the ramdomness of the points affected. No video/black screen has become one of them, and has been cured at least once by the resoldering op. That's all it took a couple of days ago, with exactly that same problem.

And no, please don't do entry level resoldering work on that PS board. WAY too much is at stake, and you would be riding on pure dumb luck that way. Not good chances to give your several thousand dollar piece of gear. It truly needs to be done to a professional grade level, before being reinstalled back in your set and turned on.

I like to have the boards sent to me be fully operational when sent, before I tear into them. But that is not always possible. If your set has had all the intermittent problems, send me the board and I will resolder it. Can't say it will fix the audio problem, but chances are good, and you need to get this resoldering op done anyway, before you will be able to trust your set again. Can't use the set for video viewing anyway in its current condition without playing Russian Roullette with it, so get the board out now, and send it to me.

For all those wanting to send me their PS boards -

I have a readymade emailout all ready to go, with my address, directions on how to get it out and put it back in, etc. Just send a request for it to my email address, in my sig below. Call me as well, so we can actually talk about it too, before sending, I want to be in touch with you verbally as well.

Mr Bob

bliz

09-29-08, 02:15 PM

Mr Bob

09-29-08, 07:48 PM

Bob
The problem was tht usual interintermittent problems flashes/popping powering down, the ususl rest period, then the restart. This progressively got worse the past year after the service call from the authorized P-rep was no help as there was no malfunction at his visit. So this past it had its last flash/pop, and now after the manditory rest period, i restart only to get no video just audio, which changes with a channel change. No video, menu, graphics, and yes the black screen, green light does stay on.

Send me your PS board, I'll resolder it to efficacious performance again. Chances are excellent that that will do the trick, as long as your set is working as it should when turned on from dead cold. Since the green light is staying on, the the set's not shutting off. Which is good.

Mr Bob

taylor814

10-03-08, 04:37 PM

Mr Bob

10-04-08, 12:49 PM

Hi Mr Bob
ANOTHER unit with the blue screen flashing problem.... What a relief to find this forum. Thanks to everyone who has added to it over the years.
I bought my PRO 510HD in January 2001. The first unit I received had "spots" showing on the screen. After the "factory authorized service tech" came out to look at it and almost took the cover off the back that holds the mirror...then proceeded to try cleaning the crt's and mirror (leaving lots of streaks to the mirror and who knows what scratches to the new crt lenses) advised me that he needed to replace one of the CRT's. Needless to say that was unacceptable to me (the set was 3 days old!) I called my dealer and firmly requested a new unit. New one showed up in a week.
For the most part this set had been great until a few days ago. (used average 10-15 hrs/wk).That's when the screen started to flash. So yesterday I started searching online and found this forum. Say no more.
I teach automotive at a community college. There is an electronics department that is always bugging me for car repairs, so its their turn now. I will pull the P/S board and get them to check/repair the solder connections. I can solder wiring but don't think I'll try this one.
On another note...
I got HD via satelite last year (Bell Expressvu PVR 9200- same as Direct TV I think) and the Display in 1080i Full seemed to be too tall. It was cutting the top off the screen. I called the Dealer because I had bought an extened warranty and it was still covered-just barely. They called the authorized service center who sent out the SAME GUY that I had years before.
He proceeded to adjust the Verticle size and left when it looked ok.
As soon as I switched to a DVD input (480p) the picture was horribly too wide.
Obviously changing the setting in 1080i affected the 480p. Turns out that the 1080i was a bit too wide as well.
Frustrated and lacking all confidence in the repair tech (the only one here in Victoria BC that works on Pioneer Elite) I was able to purchase the manuals and do adjustments myself. After recording the settings I played with the verticle & horizontal size, a bit with the horiz. phase and got it looking better in HD and 480i.
The end result is that in HD the screen outer edges are missing a small bit of picture (network logos, sports scores and such) but I can't seem to get it any better without causing another issue.
Is this common to these units? Looks like I might have to live with. Other than that I love the TV.

I would love to get an ISF Cal but unless you're taking a holiday up here some time.. Can you recommend anyone? Hard to find someone with the right experience to service these TV's.

Thanks again for all the info you have posted. I feel much better knowing I can get the screen flash fixed...

STOP USING YOUR SET NOW! ANYONE WHO'S SET IS IN THIS CONDITION, HAVING INTERMITTENT PROBLEMS, STOP USING YOUR SET NOW. This very minute, if it's on right now, turn it off and unplug it before you have a possibly catastrophic event, rather than just a "tickler" event, which is what usually preceeds a catastrophic event in this case. Shut it down and discontinue using it until fixed PROPERLY.

I have said many times on this thread that if you do continue to use the set for video viewing while in this intermittent-event condition, you're playing Russian Roulette with it. Those hinky connections generate spikes that have been known to take down boards downline from the PS board. They are like needed dental work - they are degenerative, and never get better on their own, only worse. One owner called me after having used his set many times after it started having problems, and now both the conv and defl boards had become damaged. He never fixed his set because the expense was now thru the roof for him. If your set is still at least running properly, I can save your PS board for minimal expenses if you send it to me right now, BEFORE continuing to use the set until something majorly bad happens to it.

And trusting a community college for the resoldering op is as bad as trusting a fully competent repair tech to know anything about the cleaning and calibration process. You already learned how much this repair guy knew about optics cleaning. You have now discovered how much he knows about overscan reduction. Are you really going to trust a community college for the resoldering op on your $5000 unit???

That said, the other problems you're currently experiencing are only to be expected on CRT tech. Reducing overscan ALWAYS hoses your picture before being redone back to its former coherency, and should be handled by someone highly experienced in that op, ideally to the tune of YEARS worth of tried and true experience.

Do NOT use that tech again. He's probably an excellent repair tech, but for the cleaning and calibration process, he obviously knows just enough to be dangerous. Even if it involves flying me to Victoria, don't use him again! My passport is ready, if you want to get it done right.

If you want to play with it with professional counseling and an expert's ear beside you, call me and set up a phone coaching appointment. They are emminently affordable when it's a $5000 set, and the response I have had from my participants on such calls has been over and above anything I would have ever imagined. At the very minimum, 100% positive.

Your set has not been hosed TOO much yet. But don't take any chances on unknown factors like local repair techs. They often do MUCH more harm than good, when it comes to anything related to calibration.

Do you realize that if he had successfully removed the upper-half slanted plastic rear of your set, your mirror would have slipped out of its slots in the bulkhead and taken a nose dive into your front screen sandwich, scoring it with gashes and possibly breaking the mirror, whose shards could have then indellibly scratched and scored your irrreplaceable lenses? I have seen that happen, and been called in for replacing the entire mirror and the scored screen, on a 710 years ago. I saw what an irresponsible mover did to a Sony's lenses, when something heavy dropped onto the slanted back of that set, breaking its mirror and sending shards down and into the lenses. It was not pretty.

:eek:

PIONEER OWNERS, PLEASE LISTEN UP! Don't take these things lightly. You have a set most of you paid $5000 for. Treat it with the respect it deserves. Fly me in if you have to, either singly or with others to help defray the plane flight expenses.

But PLEASE get these things done right!

Mr Bob

bruce804

10-04-08, 06:25 PM

Mr Bob

10-04-08, 07:12 PM

Greetings. My PRO-510 went through the blue flash issue 8 years ago and was ultimately repaired and worked flawlessly.....until yesterday when the green convergence was waaaay off when the set was turned on. Picture is OK in the middle, but the green is convex around the edge.

Any thoughts?

The convergence often gives out without the PS board having anything to do with it. Those ICs in there on the conv bd are workhorses, and run very hot as well, on all CRT RPTV tech. Changing them out whenever necessary is not out of line, any more than having to replace a thermostat in your car after a number of years.

If you have had no spurious intermittent events, chances are your repaired PS board is just fine, esp. if one of the horizontal fuses on the PS board has blown. That fuse, in this case, will no doubt be to the conv bd. I would go with changing out those ICs for now, see how that works out.

The STK 392-180s are readily available from Union Electronics and are a substantial upgrade from the original 110s. Union reports having excellent luck with them, unlike with a lot of other replacements I hear about that are readily available on the net for cheap, but which are often substandard.

The 180s Union sells are genuine Sanyo parts with an excellent reputation. They are less expensive than the manufacturer branded OEM versions and the 364-160s, both of which are also much stronger than the original 110s and do the same job as the 180s.

I would replace both, even tho from your symptoms only 1 is probably bad, just like I would a throwout bearing in a car's clutch.

Mr Bob

taylor814

10-05-08, 01:43 AM

Thanks Mr. Bob

Unplugging the unit WAS the first thing I did once I found this thead. This flash problem did just start to happen and the set has never shut down on me.

Just to clarify about taking the board to the college. My intention was to get the instructor/co worker to do the repair based on the info in this thread. However I'll also consider sending it to you.
In an earlier thread you mentioned that Pioineer was now replacing these boards at cost of labor only. This likely wouldn't work out very well due to the fact that the only Pioneer Authorized tech is the one who is NEVER touching my set again. I made that decision back in 2001 when he almost dropped the mirror. I doubt they would supply a board if I wanted to replace it.
I was aware at that time what would have happened inside the TV never mind the "clearly stated" warning that is on the back of the panel.
When I called the dealer a while ago about the overscan problem I was quite nervous when the same "tech" showed up to look at it. Fortunately he didn't open it up, just used the service mode.
It"s very dissapointing to know that Pioneer would be using techs that don't know what they are doing. I don't like to name names but I will say that the Authorized Repair company has "RADIO" in the name not anything about TV's....?????....
Now that it is out of warranty and I am paying, it is my choice who looks at it.

Is it possible to have the overscan thing corrected so that it doesn't cut off any picture in 1080i and 480p? Or is this inherent to the design. It only really bugs me when i see a show like Discovery HD and the logo is missing a bit and on other TV's (in stores) there is a space between the right side of the logo and edge of the screen.
I do baby this TV. I never leave it with a frozen picture, or hook up any video game consuls to it. It has been set up as best I can using VideoEssentials but that only goes so far though and doesn't correct any problems.
I had considered an ISF cal when I first got the TV but I didn't trust anyone due to the lack of experienced techs's on Vancouver Island.
I'll think about the "flying you up" idea or maybe the phone consultation.
Coming from the auto repair industry, I do understand technology so I am sure I could follow thorough instructions.
Maybe correspond through email and set up a phone call time to discuss further.

Thanks for your time and quick reply.

Taylor814

Mr Bob

10-05-08, 06:27 AM

Is it possible to have the overscan thing corrected so that it doesn't cut off any picture in 1080i and 480p? Or is this inherent to the design. It only really bugs me when i see a show like Discovery HD and the logo is missing a bit and on other TV's (in stores) there is a space between the right side of the logo and edge of the screen.

Yes. These are sensitive beasts and have to be handled with kid gloves, but yes the o'scan CAN be taken in adequately to show all that you should be seeing, including complete score boxes.

Remember, when zoomed out a bit with the designed-in overscan, your pic is not as tight as it should be, either. So it's a combination of untightness in your pic and your sometimes unconscious straining at the bit, trying to be seeing things in the outer perimeter that you are SUPPOSED to be seeing. And of course are not, because of the overscan. Creates tension in your neck, when you KNOW you're not seeing all the director intended you to see!

Yes, what you are trying to see there IS there, just like it is on the fixed pixel units in the stores, but it needs to be displayed properly. The o'scan needs to be taken in and the pic regeometry'd and reconverged. After which you have a much tighter, higher resolution picture than before, in addition to finally being able to see everything you're supposed to be seeing.

Just takes the touch of the master's hand...

;)

Mr Bob

taylor814

10-05-08, 08:41 PM

Mr Bob

10-06-08, 11:13 AM

[ The o'scan needs to be taken in and the pic regeometry'd and reconverged. After which you have a much tighter, higher resolution picture than before, in addition to finally being able to see everything you're supposed to be seeing.

Just takes the touch of the master's hand...

;)

Mr Bob

________________________________________________________
Mr.Bob,

Glad to here that the overscan can be corrected.
Once the P/S board is resoldered and everything is back to normal, I will look at correcting the overscan. Is this something that can be done through a phone consultation???
Also, if I send the board to you what is the average turn around time to get it back??

Taylor814

I try for 48 hours whenever I can, but can only promise a max of 2 weeks, depending on what comes up in my life around that time. I will do 48 hours turnaround for extra charges, contact me directly about that. Otherwise I'll get it out again as soon as I can, with a 2 week max. These days I am running about 5 days, but again, no promises. DK what will come up as the days go by, that might need to be handled before I get to your board.

O'scan redux is not something everybody can do. Things could get really messed up if you're not extremely careful, as you have already discovered. It has already been changed substantially, and I am used to working with factory out of box condition. Correcting that would have to be our starting point.

I doubt if this guy even wrote down the registry values where he started, as is SOP when you are a calibrator. Just getting back to the garden without any trail of bread crumbs creates its own unique challenges.

It would best be done up close and personal by me, on location.

That said, I could guide you by phone if you are an incredibly adept learner, who doesn't mind learning curves and that they could take awhile. A good digital cam so you can email me pix along the way would also be pretty much a requirement.

I think it could be done by phone, but no promises. You could whack it out so much from inexperience that you might have to fly me in anyway, just to straighten things out again!

:o

Mr Bob

d_98se

10-06-08, 01:55 PM

Mr Bob

10-06-08, 02:04 PM

Hey all,

Pioneer Elite Pro 530-HDI has green lines that come and go. Sometimes a restart takes care of it. Will a re-solder of the board take care of it or not. Fyi t.v is a hand-me-down from a friend who plastered his wall with a Panny Vierra.

DK. This thread is about the x10 series. You might want to search out info on the x30 series.

Many of the x20 series used the same PS board as the x10 series - if it was vertically mounted to the bulkhead in there, you know it was the same board as the x10 series, with the same problems and the same solutions.

But the x30 is at present for me, an unknown quantity...

That said, if the green lines are horizontal, slanted up and curving slightly downwards as they go to the right, several inches apart and only show up on certain types of pictures, then they are retrace lines, meaning your green Screen control is set too high. Are your blacks overbearingly green?

It's best to have someone knowledgeable do the tweaking of the Screen controls, tho, or you could very easily mess up your grayscale. Sounds like the Screens need to be rebalanced, after which your grayscale will most likely need to be recalibrated.

Luckily enough since you paid nothing for it, you have oodles of $ you didn't spend on buying it that you can now throw at it, if necessary -

;)

Mr Bob

cassiusdrow

10-07-08, 09:06 PM

Hey all,

Pioneer Elite Pro 530-HDI has green lines that come and go. Sometimes a restart takes care of it. Will a re-solder of the board take care of it or not. Fyi t.v is a hand-me-down from a friend who plastered his wall with a Panny Vierra.

If they are straight horizontal lines that flicker in the picture, then they may be related to a known defect in the X30 line. I'd suggest calling Pioneer about it as they were the subject of a class action suit around this issue and were very good about servicing even out of warranty.

Here is a link to the class action settlement (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3424/312527962NoticeandPendency.pdf), which contains references to installation of "Kit 2" (also known as "CRTX30KIT2") on page three.

d_98se

10-10-08, 03:39 PM

If they are straight horizontal lines that flicker in the picture, then they may be related to a known defect in the X30 line. I'd suggest calling Pioneer about it as they were the subject of a class action suit around this issue and were very good about servicing even out of warranty.

Here is a link to the class action settlement (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3424/312527962NoticeandPendency.pdf), which contains references to installation of "Kit 2" (also known as "CRTX30KIT2") on page three.

Thank you for your response the lines run straight across the screen will look into it.

d_98se

10-10-08, 03:54 PM

If they are straight horizontal lines that flicker in the picture, then they may be related to a known defect in the X30 line.

Once again thank you for directing me to that link. Called Pioneer a few seconds ago and they acknowledged the problem from the get go and they have promised a free repair!

I owe you a couple of beers.:)

Mr Bob

10-10-08, 05:42 PM

Once again thank you for directing me to that link. Called Pioneer a few seconds ago and they acknowledged the problem from the get go and they have promised a free repair!

I owe you a couple of beers.:)

Whoo hoo!

I wish Mit was being so accommodating on the coolant leakage issues they are having all over the country on their HDready CRT lines. No such luck. They are dropping like flies, here in the Bay Area.

They prorate your set on an estimated 7 - that's SEVEN - year lifespan (disgusting! intolerable! they should be shot!) - and prorate credit accordingly, but ONLY if you plunk down whatever it takes to make sure the multi-layer board CANNOT be found by their field service. And it virtually never is, but you're committed to whoever your tech facility is, for finding that out for you. And the sets usually take at least 5 years to go bad. I have seen 8 year old sets go bad, and there's no credit given at all for those.

This was damage caused by THEIR leaky CRT coolant seals, and yet they are being allowed to skate.

They used to stand behind their constituents, and take care of them. Hitachi and Pioneer still do. Mit has fallen by the wayside, if you ask me...

:mad:

Mr Bob

cassiusdrow

10-10-08, 11:06 PM

Once again thank you for directing me to that link. Called Pioneer a few seconds ago and they acknowledged the problem from the get go and they have promised a free repair!

I owe you a couple of beers.:)

I'm glad to here that Pioneer is still stepping up on this issue.

I went through this issue with them several times myself back in 2004, before the class action suit, before they had acknowledged the defect. Once KIT2 was installed properly, the streaks vanished, (so far) never to return.

Good Luck!

akphan10

10-13-08, 07:01 PM

Mr Bob

10-14-08, 01:05 PM

Hi,
I am new here, but I've read several pages on this thead regarding the problem with the pioneer elite. I have the PRO 710HD which I bought in 2001. I started to have the loud pop and the shut down like others described about a month ago. The picture would come back up if I shut down the main power for about 5 minutes. I got tired of the problem and decided to remove the PS board very carefully last weekend, and asked my dad to solder the E3 connection for me. I did notice there was a crack on the old solder at pin #1 & 13. I asked him to solder all 13 pins to make sure. He is very skillful at the soldering, since he used to solder for a living. I reinstalled the PS board and hooked every thing back like the way it was, but now the TV won't even turn on. The red indicator light infront of the TV stays on, but the green light will turn on then off immediately when I try to turn the TV on. I am so disappointed. Anyone with any ideas?? Please HELP.

Your dad may have gotten rusty in his solder technique. If it no longer turns on, chances are he left a solder bridge in there somewhere.

The board is covered wtih cold solder joints, so just manipulating it by taking it off its metal plate can trigger other cold solder joints that are ready to go. Another reason to send it ON that metal plate rather than off it, when sending me the PS boards out of these units.

It's real easy to bridge those long-string connector rows. Observe EXACTLY what it says near them, where each pin is ID'd, and obey that exactly. Chances are if that's all he soldered, then that's where the problem is. If some of the pins are sodered kinda thickly, using a continuity meter would be the best idea. Keep in mind that the 11v and 9v pins have only 2 ohms between them, so they will read like a short on the continuity test.

If you get away with having the set work again with only soldering those strings, you've gotten a brief reprieve, but your set will go out again soon, as more bad conn's warm up fully and finally let go. Each time it does, you take the chance of having spikes be shot down into your set, disabling other boards down there and possibly causing them to croak. It takes a comprehensive resoldering of virtually the entire board, to make it work properly from then on.

NO SET should be used for watching video or any other purpose that allows it to fully warm up, when in this intermittent connections condition. As I have said many times in this thread, to do so is playing Russian Roulette with it.

:eek:

Mr Bob

shark0582

10-19-08, 04:44 PM

Mr Bob

10-19-08, 05:20 PM

I wish I would have found this forum a long time ago. Question for you Bob, I have a 710 pro about 7 years old. had all the flashes and shutting down, and black screens. Bought a new ps board from Pioneer and installed it a month ago. Everything has been fine, but out of the blue it turned off again and the 5amp and 6.3 amp fuses blew. I did not see any apparent red lights on anywhere inside the TV. But I did see one on the ps board and another board on the left side of the TV before changing to the new board. Now I see none. I replaced the fuses and everything is fine for now. I read something about ic's and a stk fuse or something. Any links to actually changing IC's if indeed that is the most likely source for the fuses going out. Thank you for your valuable time. Shawn from NJ

Welcome, glad to have you here.

I have not seen the 6.3A fuse blow, ever, so gotta give you a DK on that. The hor 4 and 5 amp fuses go to the conv bd, which could be intermittent now that it has been exposed to the shocks of the intermittents sending spikes down the lines, which you said happened more than once before the board was replaced. It only takes once -

If it blows either the 4 or 5 amp hor fuse on the PS bd, the conv bd will need repair. It is on the left side as you are looking in from the back, vertically mounted like the PS board is. The 6.3A probably goes to the defl bd, which was also exposed.

Only time will tell, now that your set is working again. Changing out the conv ICs won't help or hinder your defl bd, and will only blow fuses on your PS bd, so just let it keep running for now and see how things shake out -

If you find you need to get the ICs changed on the conv bd, you can either send it to me or look up lcaillo's excellent tutorial on it. You can find a link on it elsewhere in this thread, I believe.

DON'T use the same ICs that are in there currently, the 110s. The STK 392-180s are several versions of upgrade higher and stronger, and have been giving us excellent results and reliability.

Or you can follow lcaillo's recommendation of the more expensive and harder to find 364-160's, pretty sure that's the right number.

The 180's are available very affordably at Union Electronics, out of Chicago. I have not had ANY returns on them. I would not use the electronix.com versions, which are much less expensive, but not the same quality level as the 180's you will get from Union.

Mr Bob

shark0582

10-20-08, 07:19 PM

It has not blown another fuse since yesterday, so far so good. I will change the ic's to the recommended ones in your message above if I have any more problems with that 5amp. Thank you so much for your help and your time. If I need a repair I will contact you.

Mr Bob

10-21-08, 01:35 PM

CraZyMuffin

10-22-08, 09:46 PM

Mr Bob

10-23-08, 12:20 PM

I was lucky enough to recently acquire 2 of the PRO-610HD TVs.

The first one was on the street, and after popping opening the back, immediately noticed the power supply board missing. Everything else looks intact and undisturbed. I am hoping that all this one needs is a working power board.

The second was given to me for free, with a listing of its problems. 1st, the picture was showing the usual symptoms I see most owners having, usually fixed by resoldering / reflowing the power supply board. 2nd, after years of beating on the top, side, and even dropping the right-hand side of the TV onto the ground, the green light gun was suspected to have gotten out of convergence. Upon trying to fix the green gun himself, the previous owner told me that he lost fluid from the gun. Some got onto one of the boards below, but he promptly cleaned it off.

I am currently planning on reworking the power board from TV #2, and trying it out in TV #1. Hopefully this will tell me what (if anything) else is wrong with this TV.

I would be interested in knowing what I can do to fix TV #2, and its green light gun issues (biggest being adding coolant, and also setting the convergence).

Thanks in advance to any input.

Great example of a little knowledge being a bad thing. Sounds like the former owner of the second one followed dropping a huge, heavy and yet very delicate instrument on the ground, with taking it apart with absolutely no knowledge of how to do so. You may find after getting it going that he mistreated it in other ways as well, like screenburn, or Torch Mode. Or removing the mirror from the back, all of which are definite NO-NOs.

Try the PS board AS IS out of the second one onto the first one first - don't resolder anything yet - and if it makes the first set work properly, then shut it down before it has a chance to warm up to cruising temp. At that point you can trust that resoldering the PS bd will solve any intermittent problems.

But you gotta have the baseline of proper ops before you resolder the PS bd, in case you accidentally do any solder bridges on it and the set doesn't power up after the resoldering.

Please do a comprehensive, overall resoldering job, not just a spot job. The entire original solder flow job needs redoing, not just parts of it.

I have never re-coolant'd a Pio, so DK about that. But have done others, it is doable.

You can get a replacement PS bd from Pio still, last time I looked.

Mr Bob

CraZyMuffin

10-24-08, 03:54 AM

Thanks for the comments Mr. Bob.

After a few hours of going over all the major components on the PS, and many of the smallest, I tried out my new power supply board and in the little time I have had to test it out, it looks great.

One question I do have however, I assume that the front screen is removable? To clean the mirrors / lenses. How does one go about removing the screen. I see that the manual outlines removing the protective screen, but not the inner one.

Thanks again.

CraZyMuffin

10-24-08, 04:06 AM

While I am here, I also have another quick question.

I see on the Pioneer website that some duplicate parts are listed as "for newer models" and "for older models".

How does one tell if their TV is a newer or older model? As I may have the chance to pick up a third TV, but would like to atleast have an idea if the parts will be interchangable.

Thanks!

Mr Bob

10-24-08, 05:36 AM

Mr Bob

10-24-08, 05:37 AM

Mr Bob

10-24-08, 06:16 AM

This just came in by email (reprinted with permission):

"Hi Robert,

We talked about a month ago about my Pioneer Elite Pro 510 HD.
I wasn't able to do anything then for financial reasons and I cheated and tried to
get some more watching out of the TV. Now the screen stays with the horizontal lines
and does not come back even if turned off for days.

You warned about this, referring to playing Russian Roulette and now it seems I hit the chamber
with the bullet in it. Is the situation hopeless now?
Is there anything I can do that would be cost effective? Perhaps I now have to have someone locally look at it
and it is not a matter of sending the Power supply board to you for soldering.
Please advise. Of course you can always come to Florida for a visit this winter :- )
Thanks

John"

His set is not necessarily totalled. It may cost a little bit more now, but we really don't know anything until we do a troubleshooting session on the phone. This problem is fairly straightforward to troubleshoot over the phone, just like Runco does with their ceiling pjs and local qualified techs all over the world.

Just another warning! Don't play Russian Roulette with your multi-thousand dollar unit! Don't make me be Dirty Harry saying, "Do you feel lucky?" Squeezing another couple of days or weeks out of your set before doing anything about its intermittencies is NOT worth damaging your set further, possibly beyond what you'll want to spend to fix it. You spent serious $ for that set, and it's still one of the finest out there. If you fix it now the costs will be nominal. If later after an event that shuts your set down permanently - until fixed, anyway - it'll be a lot more expensive.

:(

You're going to have to do something anyway. Be $ ahead and do it now!

Turn it off NOW, while it's still playing, and if you wish me on the case email me for my emailout back to you on how to handle it while it's still working properly most of the time, before it gets worse. Or get it serviced locally, if you can direct them in the proper approach, or handle it personally if you are professionally qualified enough to do so.

Whatever you do, don't take a chance on another minute's worth of use, which could be the minute of the spike that takes it down, which could be brewing as we speak -

:eek:

Mr Bob

Kenneth Crowder

10-26-08, 10:23 PM

On Tuesday, October 28th, Mr. Bob is coming to Albuquerque to work on my Elite 710 HD RPTV. He will be here at least three days. If you live in the Albuquerque/Santa Fe area and would like him to work on your HD set, perhaps we can share a few of the expenses. Let me know at trudyken@nmia.com.

phxrider

10-27-08, 07:47 PM

Mr Bob

10-28-08, 07:10 AM

Mr Bob (or anyone else), do you know of a good calibrator in the Phoenix, AZ area who could give my Elite Pro-610HD a good tune-up? It has no issues and the picture looks quite good considering it's age and fairly high use and that it's never been calibrated.

What should I expect to pay for just a calibration, no repairs needed?

You are on the way to where I am flying today, if you want to get ahold of Ken, in the post above. We can arrange to add you to this trip, on the return flight. You just cover your share of the flight and any flight change increases, with Ken.

Send me your phone number via regular email and I will send you my cell number. I'll be glad to send you a rundown by email, or go over the prices with you on the phone. The pricing basics were in a recent thread here in this section, don't have time to go into it here right now, flight time is looming...

Mr Bob

IndyGrabowski

10-28-08, 08:57 PM

Mr Bob

10-30-08, 03:54 AM

Mr. Bob - I was brought to this forum by a google search. I own a Pioneer SD582 HD ready RPTV. Purchased new in 1999. A year ago it started having a problem similar to the one discussed here - a 'pop', picture turns to a bright blue glow, loud hum then black screen. Resetting the unit requires turing off the power/unplug, cool down (at least one hour), then restart. TV will work fine for one or more days, then it happens again. This fall it started happening more regularly.

TV is still in excellent shape and gives a dynamite picture. Want to repair. Is this posibly related to the power supply board resoldier discussed in this thread for the 510? Do you know how I can find someone in the Indy area that could handle this?

Tom Eckrich
Indianapolis

Sounds exactly like what this thread is all about.

STOP USING YOUR SET FOR VIDEO WATCHING NOW, AND KEEP IT UNPLUGGED UNTIL FIXED. Do NOT let it warm up to operating temp again, in its current condition. Otherwise you're playing Russian Roulette with it, as worse things happen to it when those intermittent connections keep being tempted.

Wish I could steer you the right direction in your town, but do you know how rare the right repairer is for this problem? You would not believe some of the work I have seen on these boards where it has NOT been fixed. I keep getting boards where SOME of the connections have been repaired - totally adequately and very professionally - but since an overall approach was not used, the unit keeps going down. They send the board to me because they know I do it right, and it won't go down again on them.

If you send it to me it will get done right - as has happened dozens of times now - and highly affordably. Other than that, I'm afraid you're on your own, as I don't know anybody to send you to in your town. Read as much of this thread as you can, if you choose to be on your own on this.

Otherwise, contact me by my regular email address or phone and I'll send you info on how to remove and send your board to me.

Mr Bob

spadocmike

11-02-08, 03:47 PM

Mr Bob

11-02-08, 06:07 PM

I have a non HD pioneer Elite Pro119 that is doing the same thing as far as making a loud pop and then shutting down. Do you think resoldering the PS board will fix my problem? I looked at it las night and it looks like a pretty large board and looks very dificult to remove. I have ordered service manual and hope it will shed some light on removing it. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

The pre-HD PRO and SD-P series' had lots of cold solder conn's on various boards, can't say that the PS bd would be the one in question. I would check out all the main boards in the unit, and resolder any where I found telltale halos on the pads, around the legs of the components. If you find a couple, you'll probably be best off resoldering the whole board, just like in the x10 lineup. Or do the ones you find and get ready for more later. Have not heard of cold solder joints bringing down boards downline from them in the pre-HD sets.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

11-02-08, 06:11 PM

This just came in over at the Don't Dump your CRT RPTV thread -

First post here.

I have a Pioneer HD 710 RPTV. It had never been calibrated although I knew it should have been.

2 days ago Mr. Bob come over and did a "supertweak" job on my set. Including internal cleaning, overscan reduction, gray scale adjustment removing a green cast that for years was making me green from watching. Adjustment of centerpoints of my tint, color, contrast etc, and superfine reconvergance. Last night, I watched Blade Runner in HD and I have not seen this movie in such high quality since I last saw it in a theater. Probably in better quality.

Many thanks to Mr. "Supertweak" Bob

My 710 has never looked this good. I hope it lasts forever.

Rob

Rob was an incredible host during this event, which took so long he had to put me on his couch that night, to finish up late the next day! That's how long it takes to really stem to stern a 710, same kind of time it took to do the 710 I did in Albuquerque earlier that week. But worth it!

I was sorry we had not taken before and afters of the images, as the green in the blacks was literally obnoxious, the blue in the whites only slightly less so, and the overscan left him only shards of the writing at the top and bottom of his screen.

After the job, everything was available for watching, nothing was cut off anymore, the picture was so tight and crisp you could now sit his 8' away - for a huge picture - and watch the grain of the film used to shoot the movies watched on his Elite BluRay. The color was absolutely sizzlingly lifelike now, there was depth and transparency he had not seen since it was new, and he doesn't have to push his Black Level up above zero anymore! AND I got a ride to dinner in his pride and joy, a Porsche they didn't even have 3 years ago!

Thank you again, Rob, it was my pleasure -

;)

Mr Bob