Pioneer Elite Pro-510 problem [Text View] - Page 8

Dave610

03-17-09, 11:31 PM

OMG, SMD issues! This is one that has NOT been reported yet.

Let's hope this remains an isolated incidence. I have taken in dozens and dozens of the PS bds that have been sent to me for the resoldering experience, and aside from those damaged in shipment, all but 1 have gone back and made their sets work properly again. That 1 PS bd was just too damaged by the shippers in too many places, having been sent in too small a box - I had given the owner the opportunity to have me rebox it for an extra fee before I sent it back to him, but he declined - and needed to be replaced. The others all survived, and their sets are probably merrily cranking away as we speak. I gave the owner a partial refund on that one, and if he had insured it for the proper amount - most do, his was the exception that got the attention in the end, he didn't insure it for anything and was stuck with their miniscule default amount - he wouldn't have needed that either.

Luckily your chore will only be to resolder that IC. With a fine tip iron and some magnification I am sure that will go just fine. I use a magnifying hood, along with 1.5x reading glasses, but the hood has an extra set of pop-down lenses, and I could use a set of 3.5x readers instead of the 1.5x's. This allows both my hands to stay in play.

I got it really cheap at MCM, I think it's a Tenma unit. The lenses are good quality optics, all except for the swing-down extra lens, which is just so-so. All the other lenses are optical quality and I use it every time I do a resolder job on the PS bds.

I am confident this is a bump in the road and not something we will see again anytime soon, on these units. A good reason to never flex a board you don't have to flex, or you could trigger something like this!

Sorry your unit came up with it, tho!

:(

b

Not really worried about it at this time, I rarely if ever used the PIP (actually side-by-side) function because it squeezes the picture. Maybe I'll look at it the next time I clean the set, just glad I got rid of the red conv. jitter and fixed the the other problems with the PS board. After all these years, the set still looks awesome.

For magnification, I use an Optivisor hood with either a 3x or 5x lens. I actually had to use a 12x photography/printer's loupe to see the leads on this chip - imagine a chip that's approx. 1" square with 50 leads on each side, which means probably a hair-width between each. Even with a fine tip iron, you can only apply solder with the tinned iron and rosin pre-applied to the lead. No way can very-fine rosin core solder wire be applied directly to the leads, one false move and all the leads would be soldered together. Guess I'll have to give up coffee for a week before I work on it...:rolleyes:

Glad to see your PS board re-soldering business is going well, lemme know if you could use some help! ;)

Mr Bob

03-18-09, 10:24 AM

Not really worried about it at this time, I rarely if ever used the PIP (actually side-by-side) function because it squeezes the picture. Maybe I'll look at it the next time I clean the set, just glad I got rid of the red conv. jitter and fixed the the other problems with the PS board. After all these years, the set still looks awesome.

For magnification, I use an Optivisor hood with either a 3x or 5x lens. I actually had to use a 12x photography/printer's loupe to see the leads on this chip - imagine a chip that's approx. 1" square with 50 leads on each side, which means probably a hair-width between each. Even with a fine tip iron, you can only apply solder with the tinned iron and rosin pre-applied to the lead. No way can very-fine rosin core solder wire be applied directly to the leads, one false move and all the leads would be soldered together. Guess I'll have to give up coffee for a week before I work on it...:rolleyes:

You got that right! And removing them? Special tooling that heats everything - all legs - up at the same time, otherwise it all comes apart at the seams...

Glad to see your PS board re-soldering business is going well, lemme know if you could use some help! ;)

Can't say it's real plentiful right now, only have 2 boxes in with boards in them, and no boxes came in at all for the last few weeks. It is getting pretty scary out there with the economy making everybody rare back on their discretionary income. Got a feeling lots of people are feeling so threatened by their current/future economic status that they are trying to do this by themselves while not being at all qualified for it, and others are still running their sets with the intermittent problems happening hoping for the best, not realizing that cold solder joints are just like needed dental work - they never get better on their own, only worse, till something really bad happens, and it always does...

:eek:

But I'll keep you in mind if that ever changes and I'm in so much overflow on biz coming in that I can't handle it. Can't see that happening until the economy improves, and that looks like it ain't gonna happen anytime soon...

:p

b

Mr Bob

03-18-09, 11:08 AM

If you're sending the board, the perfect box size is 15x15x22.

Use the big bubble wrap, not the small, and lay it in with its sides at a slanted angle, so if they drop the box on its side, the sides of the board inside will not be struck with that impact. Several of the broken boards I have received would never have happened, with just that little addendum.

DON'T tape the bubble wrap, just let it dangle please, it's extremely hard to deal with when transparent tape has been used on transparent bubble wrap.

And NO STYROFOAM POPCORN! PLEASE! Tell them that, if you are dropping it off and having it packed by others. It gets all over the place, including tiny airborn shreds in the air! The static alone, when dealing with it, makes it extremely unfriendly.

Use crumpled up packing paper, all the Fedex places have it all ready to be pulled off the roll and stuffed in, already pre-crumpled as it comes off the roll and thru the funnel.

b

Kimberley1980

03-18-09, 08:32 PM

Mr Bob

03-20-09, 12:49 AM

my tv is not the same model that you are talking about but can someone help us we have the same problem to where it is always shutting off but we can turn it back on after a few minutes but it is really annoying its been going on for over a year and I heard about soldering the power supply and my boyfriend would like instructions

Yours is the non-Elite version of the same unit, without the glossy piano black finish, and yes the exact same things apply, as both Elite and non-Elite models are covered by the same service manual. Your PS board's solder connections have gone hinky and the entire board needs to be resoldered to a professional grade level, and thus restored completely. Luckily this is the only board in the set that does this, and there are many boards in this set.

You've been lucky so far, but this problem gets nothing but worse, until something very bad happens. Next time it shuts down could be the time it sends a lethal spike down into the rest of your set. Power supply boards were never designed to function normally with cold solder joints all over them, from a bad solder flow machine setup when they were produced. That's the scenario here. The power supply board in your set has continuously evolving bad connections - some bad now, some bad later. They are like needed dental work - they never get better on their own.

STOP USING YOUR SET NOW. If you keep using it you are playing Russian Roulette with your multi-thousand dollar investment. You must turn it off right now, even if you are watching it, and let it go stone cold. You can turn it on again, but you must not let it stay on long enough to warm up again, unless and until the PS board has been restored to normal factory grade efficacy. The cold solder joints act up after it's been on awhile and heats up - if you keep it stone cold till it's fixed you'll be all right, with no resultant damage.

If you keep using it, listen for the "click" as the hammer cocks back...

If you send the board to me I will take care of it, as I have done for many who have found this thread. Send me an email requesting info and I'll pipe you back an emailout I have all prepared for you, with info on where to send it, how to pack it etc.

Or you can go thru this thread that's been going on re. this issue for over 4 years here page by page, to find out other parameters of this problem first...

One way or the other, if you are not a professional in the field who solders for a living, DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME. Too much is riding on it. One false move - one UNsoldered connection, one solder bridge between 2 tiny close-together points that are not supposed to touch each other, and there are hundreds of connections in there - and your set could go down.

Leave it to a professional. Board restoration is the key. Board replacement alters the power supply parameters the rest of the set was originally set up on, as current and voltage regulation only have to fall within acceptable parameters - they don't have to be identical to each other, PS board to PS board, and between separate PS boards they won't be. This PS board should stay with your set, matched up, unless it becomes absolutely necessary to replace it.

You are not nearly at that point yet. Act NOW and you won't have any further worries.

b

strler

03-22-09, 07:12 PM

Dear All,

I am new to the forum. I frankly only signed on for one reason and that was to pass the word to all that Mr. Bob is the real deal!

We had a problem with our Pioneer Elite 710HD projection TV. We'd be watching our favorite program and all of a sudden we'd hear a pop and the picture would cut out and the sound would become extremely faint. We hoped is was a problem that would go away so we turned the tv off - let it rest and then turned it back on. Sometimes that would work but sometimes it would not. The picture would work most of the time but it always seemed to pop off when we were watching something important (like the Super Bowl). It was extremely annoying. This went on for about 6 months before it started to occur more frequently. We looked into getting a new tv but didn't want to spend that much money. Then we called a couple of repair guys around our area and they wanted big bucks just to come to the house and see what the problem was.

Extremely frustrated I googled to see if others had similar problems. I was led to this site and started reading the different threads about the problem. I noticed Mr. Bob and his responses. He seemed to be very knowledgeable. I was reluctant - thinking it could be a scam - but I gave him a call. He was very nice and seemed confident that he knew how to solve the problem. Still a little hesitant - I decided to give it a try. Now understand I am not that handy with tools - so the thought of taking the back cover off my tv and removing a board was not something I was looking forward to do. But Bob was once again extremely helpful. In the middle of the process - I had a question and gave him another call - sure enough he was there and helped me through my problem. I removed the board, packed it as he suggested and sent it to him with a lot of hope. I'm in Connecticut and he is in California.

Just about a week later, Bob sent the board back and I was ready to reinstall the board. One thing I did, that I would recommend to others, is to take a number of digital pictures of the back of your tv after you remove the cover but before you disconnect any wires. With the help of the photos and Bob's instructions I reinstalled the board. Now it was time for the big moment - we turned the tv on and watched a movie - no problem. We watched a number of basketball games the next day - still no problem. Now one month later and the tv still works like new.

I can not express how happy and appreciative we are for Mr. Bob. He is an honest, hard working guy who simply does what he says he is going to do at a very reasonable price. I HIGHLY recommend that if you have a similar problem or one that after describing to Bob he says he can fix - you go ahead and let him fix it. You will not be disappointed and like me will feel great knowing that there are still people out there who are honest, hard working businessmen. Thanks Bob! We owe you big time!

Mr Bob

03-23-09, 12:19 AM

Thanks!

;)

b

htwaits

03-23-09, 01:28 PM

I am new to the forum. I frankly only signed on for one reason and that was to pass the word to all that Mr. Bob is the real deal!Thanks for your report. I've included it in the RPTV (Post#1) list that's linked at the bottom of my post.

I'll bet that there's more that Mr Bob could do for your Pioneer. ;)

Mr Bob

03-23-09, 01:48 PM

I'll bet that there's more that Mr Bob could do for your Pioneer. ;)

Don't get me started...

:D

b

RobMason

03-29-09, 03:19 PM

Mr. Bob asked me to post up some screenshots of my Pioneer 65" 710. I played around with my Panasonic SZ 28. I put the camera on a tripod, and used about a 1/2 sec exposure. I had to play around with the +/- exposure controls as they were coming out too overexposed, plus I have the ability to play with the Kelvin color scale. I just played with it until the LCD screen on the camera matched up with what I was seeing on the CRT screen.

I might add since Mr. Bob supertweaked my set in Nov 08, and then a solder redo of my main board, I can't get enough of my HD from BluRay discs, and DirectTV. I don't have a BD playing computer so unable to do screen saves from my computer. Anyway here were 2 shots I captured. They have been cropped.

Fifth Element
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/RobMason_photos/P_Fifth_Elemant.jpg

Kung Fu Panda
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/RobMason_photos/P_Kung_Fu_Panda.jpg

gpounders

03-30-09, 11:01 AM

Anyone using a eyeone display LT and ColorHCFR software to adjust your grayscale? I did my first measurement using the CRT setting but the results were so far off the chart I can't imagine it was actually that bad. I have the pioneer elite pro610hd. I'm using the curtpalme.com grayscale for dummies manual. Anyone using the LCD settting to measure? I'm going to try that to see if I get different results.

I'm wondering if the protective screen is causing a lot of glare and if so how can I overcome this problem. Any other tips? Can this be used to adjust the screen trimpots up to boast the brightness?

Thanks

Mr Bob

03-30-09, 03:50 PM

Mr Bob

03-30-09, 10:52 PM

Mark Converse

03-31-09, 07:56 AM

Mr Bob

03-31-09, 11:44 AM

I have a pioneer elite 510hd tv that has fine horizontal lines that appear when objects move on screen, or text appears on the screen. I have not been able to figure out how to fix the problem. Can anyone tell me if the parts from a pioneer elite 610hd tv are the same as the 510? It seems so according to the service manual. I am thinking about doing some "swaptronics" of boards to find out with which board the problem lies. Would this be ok, or not recommended?

I'd go for it. They make the different models with all the same boards to save in the tool and dye process. It's much more cost effective to make thousands of the same board than having 3 different boards per model, one per size.

Should not have any problems there, let us know what you find.

Have you had your PS board resoldered yet? If not shut down your set right now and send it to me, don't give its cold solder conns a chance to send a potentially lethal spike down into the rest of your set.

b

Mark Converse

04-01-09, 08:17 AM

gpounders

04-01-09, 08:52 AM

Mr Bob

04-01-09, 10:55 AM

I bought this tv secondhand from the original owners who claim it never had any blue flash or turnoff issues. I resoldered the power supply board anyway to make sure it wouldnt be a problem. However, when I purchased the tv it wasnt hooked up to any input so when I got it home and plugged it in, I found it has thin horizontal lines that follow movement of items on the screen. This is especially true with lettering or text on the screen. I have a 610hd that is fine and was thinking of swapping the boards to see if I could narrow the problem down to one board. I don't want to mess up my 610 though.. but lines on the other tv are irritating. Also, I changed out the STK chips on the 510hd when I had the power supply out for resoldering. It didnt make any difference in picture, but the convergence on the 510hd seemed ok anyway when I bought it.

You should have no problems swapping boards between a 510 and a 610.

Sounds like a bad cap in the signal chain. Sometimes you can smell
'em. True. If you find a cap which has leaked black brackish stuff onto the board, and when heated with your soldering iron puts a big whiff of fish smell into the air, then definitely change out that cap.

Just be sure to do a complete and thorough job each and every time. I once left just 1 black wire off a board when re-installing it in a Sony and the thing blew up on me, requiring a new blue gun and new power supply board, plus a new CXA IC for the static convergence controls, an IC halfway across the set from the original non-connection.

It was a grounding wire for the HV sampling. Without it evidently the HV went into runaway and caused a huge arc somewhere in there.

NEVER be cavalier and "just on automatic" when getting into sets like these. There are always potential landmines. Always be attentive and very very careful. I would always recommend "if it ain't broke don't fix it", but in your case I agree with what you have in mind -

In the case of the intermittent problems with the PS board, it needs fixed, via the resoldering op. And this is even if you have not had any events yet, just because of the thinness of the solder they used in the original solder flow job and how it continues to get worse as time goes by. If you have had even 1 intermittent event of any kind, you should be unplugging your set until that board gets the needed restoration.

Those PS boards never shoulda flown thru QC, but their inspectors had no way of knowing that solder would go bad later. I am sure the solder looked just fine at the time -

b

burpinjello

04-01-09, 02:00 PM

Caulk another for Mr Bob is my hero
System - Pioneer Elite Pro HD720
Symptoms:
Loud pop then system would not start up
After long cool off time period it still would not start
Diagnosis:
Deflection board was fried and was caused by PS board. I debated the cost to fix (close to 1K once all said and done) and decided a new comparable set would cost 2.5K minumum.
Resolution:
Ordered new deflection board and verified it was the only thing fried. Sent PS to Mr Bob for re-solder. Buttoned it up the other night and Presto!

I'll be getting him to tune it right after we move.

Thanks!

kegels

04-01-09, 02:42 PM

How did you conclude that the defection brd was the culprit? Was it because the red led was lit on that brd? I have the same issue on my SD582(non-elite). My PS brd was replaced about 1.5 yrs ago before it shut down again just like yours. I replaced the blown fuses on the PS brd and tried to power it up only to blow the fuses again. The red led on the PS and deflection brd was lit.
During my search for a cheaper replacement deflection brd, I ran into a used pro 630 on craigslist that was local. The guy was selling it for less than the cost of a replacement deflection brd so I ended up buying it from him. I can't believe how much superior the pro 630 is to the sd582 - WoW the picture is amazing. I already performed the optic and mirror cleaning as described here in the forums. I will read up more on trying to do more of the picture calibration DIY since I have the service manual.
As for the SD582, i'm debating whether I should buy the deflection brd to get her going again or sell her for spare parts.

Caulk another for Mr Bob is my hero
System - Pioneer Elite Pro HD720
Symptoms:
Loud pop then system would not start up
After long cool off time period it still would not start
Diagnosis:
Deflection board was fried and was caused by PS board. I debated the cost to fix (close to 1K once all said and done) and decided a new comparable set would cost 2.5K minumum.
Resolution:
Ordered new deflection board and verified it was the only thing fried. Sent PS to Mr Bob for re-solder. Buttoned it up the other night and Presto!

I'll be getting him to tune it right after we move.

Thanks!

Mr Bob

04-01-09, 02:59 PM

I can't believe how much superior the pro 630 is to the sd582 - WoW the picture is amazing.

There should not be all that much difference. They both use the same types of circuitry, tho the 630 is 2 model years younger. I have supertweaked both, and have seen very little difference between the 2 in HD performance of the finished product on both.

I bet it's just in the way the calibration has been handled, along with the optics needing a lot more cleaning on a 2 year older set.

b

MrRedrum

04-06-09, 11:34 PM

Hey Guys,

I just stumbled across an ad today that caught my eye. Apparently, whoever posted the ad, is giving away their PRO-610HD for free. Now, doing some quick research the PRO-610HD is suppose to be a 58" set yet, they are saying it's a 54". So I would assume they got their model numbers mixed up and it's actually the PRO-510HD?

Anyways, here is what the ad says:
"Best TV we ever had. Has on & off switch problem. We want flat screen. This is big but when it works it's Beautiful. If you can fix it YOU WIN! Pioneer Elite 54" on stand, Reference Projection Monitor Receiver
PRO-610 HD. All you need to do is come get it."

Now, the on and off switch problem is most likely that the PS board needs to be resoldered? Or something as "simple" as that? I haven't put for any effort into looking any of this stuff up before so it's all new territory for me. I figure someone here might know what is going on or at least a rough idea. I'm just trying to figure out if it's worth it for me to go out there and pick up the TV or if it might just be a loss and a waste of gas cause the thing is fried. I don't want to bother with it either if it might cost me $1,000+ to fix. Thanks!

Johnla

04-07-09, 02:58 AM

MrRedrum

04-07-09, 03:34 AM

If it's free, first grab it, bring it home, and then worry about how to fix it!

Then and only then, can you troubleshoot it some. Just saying what the ad says, that it has some sort of a "on & off switch problem" is really of no help. No one can tell you for sure what is actually wrong with it without a better description of what it is actually doing.

As for how much it will cost to fix it, you will only know that when you first find out what is actually wrong with it. And it will also depend a lot on if you are capable of doing any of the work yourself.

If it's just a cold solder joint problem on the power supply circuit board, and if you are well versed in circuit board soldering, then the fix for it could almost be free. But if you are not good at soldering, or worse yet, do not even know how to solder, then you should NOT even try to do the soldering yourself! But if you can remove the circuit board yourself so that someone else can do it for you, then the cost should only be a few hundred dollars.

For only the price of gas to go get it, even if it takes a full tank of gas. For something like a HD ready Elite RPTV, it's still well worth the risk of "wasting" some gas to first go and get it and then do some troubleshooting on it to find out what is wrong with it, and then to decide if it is worth fixing!

Well, I suppose you make a valid point haha. Any rough idea's on how much it weighs? Think I might need 3 guys (including myself) to load it on a truck? I didn't know if that "on and off" thing was simply a common problem that people have run across or not. If that was the case then you might know exactly what it is that's going on with it and I'd be able to save myself the trip. The whole thing about "wasting" my time is that the TV is roughly an hour and a half away without traffic so 3+ hours round trip, which is something I can't really spare during the week. Plus, that's just a long drive in general.

Anyways, if it's still there at the end of the week, that is if I can't make any time during the week to get it with some friends, then I'll let you know the diagnosis. If I can't determine the problem on my own, which I doubt I'll be able to, I'll see if I can post some pics and/or video for help.

hondo21

04-07-09, 08:47 AM

If it's the 610, it's a little over 300 lbs. 54-1/4" x 53-3/16" x 26-9/16" (WxHxD).

MrRedrum

04-07-09, 09:36 AM

If it's the 610, it's a little over 300 lbs. 54-1/4" x 53-3/16" x 26-9/16" (WxHxD).

Ahh okay. Definitely a 3 man job if I want to take it easy on myself. Thanks! And I bet that's where they got the 54" from...

Mr Bob

04-07-09, 11:59 AM

I just received this email, from a guy on the other side of the country. It is typical of how many people handle the intermittents they are noticing on their 510/610/710s.

Bob,
Found you on the AVS forum and I have the problem with the HD610
making a loud pop and shutting down. Can you tell me which parts I need
to send and how to pull them out and pack them? Plus, of course, what
it will cost.

Thanks,

Here's my reply, which was followed by details on how and where to send the board -

Please stop using your set! NOW. Unplug it from the wall or turn off the master power switch on the far left of the control panel till it gets fixed.

You've been VERY lucky so far, but don't push it. The next time it shuts down could be the time it sends a horrific spike down the power supply lines and takes out a board downline from it. Then it starts getting expensive. Right now the cost to restore it to gliche-free, completely stable operation again is minimal, especially in comparison to costs later after such a NEW silent but dangerous shutdown event - which LOOKS the same as the shutdown events you've already had, but this time silently and instantly goes critical on you and damages something downline from it - which in many cases totals the unit.

As long as your set is still working properly while stone cold when you first turn it on, yes you can send me the board straightaway. If it has finally shut down and won't come on again, then don't send me the board straightaway. We then have to talk live first, and go to the next level.

Be sure to send me your phone number, in case there are any complications along the way.

B

I only hope I can get to those who have not learned about this thread yet in time each time, before something really bad :( happens to their sets -

;)

Mr Bob

04-07-09, 12:19 PM

Ahh okay. Definitely a 3 man job if I want to take it easy on myself. Thanks! And I bet that's where they got the 54" from...

My year 2000 65" Panny, easily more heavy than either the Elite 510 or the 610, was easily transportable up the ramp of a Uhaul truck by 2 normal sized guys. These things are all on wheels, there should need to be no heavy lifting involved.

I cut an inch thick 4x8 in half lengthwise and put it on the ramp so the set was not exposed to the ramp's knurls as it went up and down the ramp. Or get a truck with a lift, which makes things super easy and completely doable by only one person.

Buy half a dozen unbuilt Uhaul boxes and put them under the set for the journey. This will protect it from road shock, you can sell them back to Uhaul at the other end as long as they have not been built.

Contact me directly if you want to do some troubleshooting on your set once you get it back home. I have been a tireless contributor to this thread for more than 2 years, and have saved literally TONS of these sets from going down in flames. I do it all the time, I LOVE these sets and am flown around the country saving and then restoring them.

Sounds like your set has experienced what all the other sets here have, and there's plenty of track record on this issue, if you want to read the entire thread. The PS board was poorly soldered by Pioneer - or whoever they may have farmed that op out to - at the factory, and it has taken years for those weak solder joints to finally start letting go, one by one. If caught early, no damage happens downline. If not, then we go to the next level. But these sets are emminently and very straighforwardly repairable, some of the finest designed sets ever made. Well worth a 3 hour drive and a repair. And a full cleaning and calibration, once up and running again.

Peruse some of the later pages here - just scroll them quickly - and you'll see screenshots of how incredible these sets look, even today, once fully cleaned and calibrated and given the proper care and maintenance you'd give any fine instrument. A 610 produces a $6000 picture. It did then, when your former owner plunked down $6000 and bought the set retail, and it still can now, given the proper care and feeding and brought back to its former glory. (And then some, if you put it in my hands!) These sets are NOT old. They are only at cruising age for a CRT RPTV, with many happy years ahead of them, producing breathtaking HD.

This was the ONLY brand that designed the contrast to be at midpoint by default, when all the other brands were defaulting them at 100%, which we call Torch Mode. As such, they usually have much more life left in their CRTs than those of Joe Sixpack.

Videophiles will always choose to run their contrast at halfway up or below, of course, but the Elites were designed to do that by default, and be the regular way of doing things, without the Contrast intervention usually needed on other brands.

If you just want to get your set fixed without taking on the load of reading the entire thread, contact me. Directly please, NOT by pm. We'll start by getting it going for you again, then see if you want to really trick it out.

;)

b

RajT

04-13-09, 05:21 PM

Tom_Oliver

04-13-09, 05:31 PM

Mr Bob

04-13-09, 07:20 PM

I had a problem like that and fixed it with this: http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/part.asp?productNum=AWV1919

Pretty easy to install if you've like put together your own computers and stuff. Just a board you plug in. It's a little tricky, but if I can do it anyone can. ha

Mine was more with the HDTV plugins now that I read your post again. Like if I moved the cables around I could sometimes fix it, but eventually even that didn't work. You might have something else.

I would not trust this to work on a 510, as it is for the x20 series. Also I don't see what board it is, just that it's the "I/O board". Which does not make any bells go off in my head re. what this thread is all about.

:confused:

Would think that this would be the terminal board, where the inputs all go in. The symptoms match convergence, not I/O.

b

Mr Bob

04-13-09, 07:24 PM

Hello everyone,

I need some help with my Pioneer Elite 510HD. All of a sudden the picture on the TV is all screwed up to where the RED, GREEN, and BLUE are split and the picture looks wavy. I am suspecting that one of the resisters on the convergence board is shot but I don not know which board is the convergence board. I did smell something burning as soon as it happened so a resister definetly went. Any help or suggesting is greatful.

RT

This sounds like a convergence problem. It usually doesn't involve a burnt resistor on this series, but since the ICs usually croak and blow fuses, one resistor or another could very well be fried.

I would recommend changing out JUST the ICs and the blown resistor, NOT the board itself. Starting from scratch on geometry and convergence on CRT tech is not for the faint of heart, the impatient, the inexperienced nor the ill-advised...

:p

b

Tom_Oliver

04-13-09, 08:11 PM

Worked on my Pioneer Elite 510HD.

Mr Bob

04-13-09, 09:33 PM

Worked on my Pioneer Elite 510HD.

What did? Changing out the I/O board? Or the conv bd? Or the conv ICs?

b

RajT

04-14-09, 11:25 AM

I have a pretty good idea that its the convergence board and something similar did happen before and I had a tech fix it and what he did was replace the IC's and resisters. I am pretty handy and pretty sure I can do this myself as well. Bob, not sure if you remember me but you ordered the Power Supply board for me about 5 years ago. I just need to know which board is the convergence board when I open the back panel up.

Mr Bob

04-14-09, 11:48 AM

Bob, not sure if you remember me but you ordered the Power Supply board for me about 5 years ago. I just need to know which board is the convergence board when I open the back panel up.

I rarely order the PS board, instead I usually do a supremely comprehensive job of resoldering it, completely restoring it. I have been doing it this way for years, saving the PS and convergence boards rather than replacing them, and doing it this way has worked 100% of the time, as long as the board has not then been damaged in shipment by the gorrillas that work for the shipping companies. Even then, I have repaired those damages and saved every board so far except one, which was just hit too hard while it was in their hands, resulting in too many board breaks. And as you observe, I have been doing this for many years.

The only board I recommend replacing is the deflection board, as it is very convoluted in its design, and you usually need to replace it rather than try to repair it. Whenever it's the defl bd I simply replace it without further ado. But I ALWAYS save the PS and conv bds and keep the original boards going, unless one or the other has just gone too far to the dark side. Which has happened so infrequently as to not even deserve mention. I have NEVER had to replace a conv bd on these units, and only ONE PS bd.

I don't think replacing it is a good idea on the PS or the conv bds, because then all the supplies on the PS and generation wafeforms on the conv can wind up a little different in their voltages and regulation parameters from the boards that came out, resulting in changes in precision areas downline from them.

The whole set takes its powers from this one PS board, so I believe it's really critical to keep the original in there at all times, unless totally prevented from doing so.

But if you say so...

The convergence bd is the one on the far left as you view your set from the back after opening it. It is the only one that is also vertically mounted, like the PS bd is on the right side as you're looking in from the back.

beither

RajT

04-14-09, 12:03 PM

Bob,

The situation was that you tried helping me on soldering the board but It was unsuccessful and you ordered a new one for me from Pioneer and a fee for your service. I am out in New Jersey so I think this is why we took this rout. I will start on the convergence board soon as I can and will give my results after I am done.

Mr Bob

04-14-09, 12:14 PM

It was not one of those that was damaged in shipment by the shipping people? And it was 5 years ago? I remember one that was damaged and needed to be replaced...

Oh well, let's just say that this type of thing has been VERY few and far between...

:D

Wow, 5 years just seems to be getting longer and longer ago, the more advanced the world keeps getting...

b

RajT

04-14-09, 08:17 PM

Mr Bob

04-14-09, 11:11 PM

OK, so I took the convergence board out and I'm taking a look at it but I can't seem to see with the naked eye where the problem would be. I see a lot of forums talking about the SKT392-120. I guess these are the 2 IC's that you have to replaced. How can i tell if any of the resisters have gone bad? I don't see any burned marks on the board. Thanks for any suggestions and pointers.

The original STKs in there are the 392-110s. The most easily available and affordable and reliable ones to replace with are the 392-180s, tho the 150s are good also if you can't get the 180s. Don't replace with the 110s again. And the 120s are just one gen removed from the 110s.

I have not seen the resistors go bad on these units, when the ICs croak. I have seen them go bad on other units and if they have failed at all, usually they are burnt. The Pios are obviously designed to blow the fuses before the resistors have a chance to burn. Which of course is the best way to do it.

I have also seen fuses that look like resistors go open without showing anything, but these are in the Mits and Hits, not the Pioneers. If none of yours are visibly burnt, I wouldn't worry about them.

Just change out the ICs, check the plug-ins for any cold solder joints, check the 2 regulator transistors mounted up against the heat sink - have never found any of those bad either, nor cold-solder jointed - and be sure to not be stingy with the heat sink compound when you replace the ICs.

b

Mr Bob

04-15-09, 12:00 PM

An owner just emailed me that his set has this problem and wondered how much it would cost to fix if he sent me the board. Part of my response -

It's eminently affordable for a set that cost what yours did when you bought it, as it is still capable of that incredible picture, even today. Have you seen the screenshots of pix I have snapped from sets of your vintage recently? If not let me know and I'll direct you, so you can see what your set CAN and SHOULD be looking like right now.

(Of course right here to this thread, a few pages back, is where I will send him! :p)

The price I charge is a few paragraphs down. But even before you scroll down to find it:

Please stop using your set! The next time it shuts down could be the time it sends a horrific spike down the power supply lines and takes out a board downline. Then it starts getting expensive. Right now the cost to restore it is very minor, especially in comparison to costs later, which in many cases total the unit. This is a degenerative problem, and like needed dental work, never gets better on its own. Only worse, till it takes your set down.

Here’s the skivvy –

If you are still running your set with the intermittencies happening occasionally, TURN IT OFF NOW AND UNPLUG IT UNTIL TIME TO SEND THE BOARD! If it has shown signs of occasional malfunction and you are still running it, you are playing Russian Roulette with your multi-thousand dollar investment. If you are watching it as we speak, run - don't walk - up to it, and unplug it or turn off its master power switch. If the remote is closeby you can reach for that also, but disconnecting its circuitry entirely from the wall power is what is most important, here.

The ONE exception (The "One last time" Rule):

Before you remove the board and send it to me, be sure to run your set FROM DEAD COLD one last time for under a minute, just to check that it’s working OK. Do NOT give your set time to warm up again! Even once! Not till your PS board has been TOTALLY restored to TOTALLY stable operation again.

Once you have confirmed that it has a solid, normal, coherent picture, while it's still on, unplug it and proceed to removing the board. When you get the board back and plug it back in, the set will turn itself on automatically, so be sure everything is back in place before plugging the wall cord back into the 120v outlet. This allows you to keep watch FROM THE BACK as the set powers up again for the first time after the board resolder repair.

With the unit unplugged, follow the power cord, from the 120v outlet at the wall. It goes directly to that board, the PS/Power Supply board. Do NOT remove the slanted plastic back, up above. Your optics could get permanently damaged. Just the fiberboard plate, on the LOWER half of the set, in the back. Confirm that the board is mounted vertically to the bulkhead of the set, on your right as you are looking in from the back. If so, it's the board in question.

Pull all the conn'rs off the board at all points before removing the board, which comes off with just 1 screw holding the entire metal frame to the rear wall of the set. Do NOT disturb the wiring bundling by tearing off the tape, shrinkwrap or tie-wraps holding the wires together. It will be needed when you re-install the board, to make sure all plugs go into their proper jacks. You can't plug anything in wrong, as each plug is of a different type or number of pins from each of the others. But keep the bundling in place anyway, undisturbed, JIC.

Leave the board on that frame, I will remove the small screws all around it once it has arrived. Pull upward on it and it will come off its slots for you.

INSURE IT FOR AT LEAST $400!!! One owner didn't, sent it Fedex, and when the gorillas damaged it beyond repair, all he got out of the deal was $100 from them, from which he had to then buy a replacement board. Another owner insured it for $5000 in case the board became both unusable and unavaible, totalling his set. His board was damaged in shipment too and no, he didn't ask for the full $5000, but at least he got covered enough for the repair fee and then some.

So don't be penny wise and pound foolish. INSURE IT.

Use big bubble wrap on it, in packing it, and an OVERSIZED BOX. An ideal size is 15x15x22. I have had 10 damaged boards so far to have had to contend with by now, because of the gorillas that work for all the shipping places. Don’t take any chances, they require AT LEAST 2” on all sides of clearance between the board and the box, no matter how well the insides of the box are cushioned, and because the board is very wide and flat even that is not enough. Lay it slanted rather than flat, so the board sides are even farther away from the edges of the box, in case they drop the box on its side. Don’t tape that bubble wrap, just leave it dangling, and PLEASE don’t use styrofoam popcorn! It gets all over the place. Crumpled up paper works just fine. If you MUST use the popcorn, SEAL IT in plastic bags. Grocery bags would work, and are free. Overfill your box a bit and tamp it down in any case when you're closing it up, so that once the board is in there, it is secured in place and can't move around in there.

In the email I returned to him I then go into what I charge and other details, like where to send it. If you want the rest of that that info, please contact me by calling or emailing me directly, not by pm please.

b

RajT

04-15-09, 12:44 PM

The original STKs in there are the 392-110s. The most easily available and affordable and reliable ones to replace with are the 392-180s, tho the 150s are good also if you can't get the 180s. Don't replace with the 110s again. And the 120s are just one gen removed from the 110s.

I have not seen the resistors go bad on these units, when the ICs croak. I have seen them go bad on other units and if they have failed at all, usually they are burnt. The Pios are obviously designed to blow the fuses before the resistors have a chance to burn. Which of course is the best way to do it.

I have also seen fuses that look like resistors go open without showing anything, but these are in the Mits and Hits, not the Pioneers. If none of yours are visibly burnt, I wouldn't worry about them.

Just change out the ICs, check the plug-ins for any cold solder joints, check the 2 regulator transistors mounted up against the heat sink - have never found any of those bad either, nor cold-solder jointed - and be sure to not be stingy with the heat sink compound when you replace the ICs.

b

Where can I order these IC's?

RajT

04-15-09, 01:59 PM

Where can I order these IC's?

A lot of companies ask for a minimum of around 200 dollars. They refered me to Mr. Sprockaets (714-687-9942) and he has limited quantity but I was able to get the STK392-180 for 21.50 each so in total with shipping came out to around 50.00.

jdbt3027

04-16-09, 09:26 AM

Mr Bob

04-16-09, 12:06 PM

Where can I order these IC's?

I always order from Melissa at Union Electronics out of Chicago. Great prices and excellent reliability.

With prices much better than the ones above. MCM is a great resource as well.

b

Mr Bob

04-16-09, 12:20 PM

I'm a Pioneer 710HD owner. I've read this thread, and notice a majority of the people with the power supply issue are seeing flashing and hearing poping sounds. My problem is a dimming of the TV while watching it. The TV gets dark for a few seconds, then returns to normal after a while (sometimes immediately, sometimes after about 20 seconds or so). The input doesn't matter (component and rgb are what I use the most). I don't hear any popping or see any flashing of any kind, so I wanted to know from the forum if this is a problem that has been experienced by someone else, or is this the precursor to the Power Supply issue?

If so, my next question is where do I get the proper hardware for the fix, and how do I get it fixed (along with getting my TV calibrated, as it has never been professionally calibrated since I had it)?

I'm in the Baltimore/Washington area, and prefer to have a service tech come out to service the TV rather than try and remove parts, or move the TV myself. I truly have a fear of damaging this TV, and don't want to take any chances being a DIY novice.

I was just in Baltimore, and have a Mit to finish once the part that was ordered is installed by the owner. That should get it working again, at which point we will be looking at me coming back there to fully calibrate it, including the shimming op for o'scan redux.

If you want to be part of that, contact me. I would be glad to calibrate your set, and to fix it as well. There aren't very many calibrators left who are qualified to bring out the best in CRT RPTV anymore. I not only do that, but also fully restore your PS board, whether sent to me or on location with your unit.

The important thing right now is to STOP USING YOUR SET before expensive damage downline from that PS board occurs. DON'T let it warm up to cruising temp again till restored, not even once. Those cold solder joints on the PS board that are now failing in units all over the continent can take many manifestations, and yours is but one that we've heard of here, of the many reported on this thread.

IF IT'S AN INTERMITTENT PROBLEM YOU'RE EXPERIENCING ON YOUR 510/610/710 or 520/620/720 - or the non-Elite versions of the same years - YOU CAN TRUST THAT THE COLD SOLDER CONNECTIONS ON YOUR PS BOARD ARE THE SOURCE OF THAT PROBLEM. Don't take any chances on your multi-thousand dollar unit. Shut it down until your PS board has had the proper attention. Only half the x20 series was affected because they used the same board as the x10 series, but ALL of the x10 series was affected.

If you want to preserve the precision of how your 710 was set up at the factory - highly recommended, the things we do as calibrators build completely on that - DON'T get a new/replacement PS bd for it. That would be starting from scratch, and possibly with a repair tech who has NO idea what real calibration is all about. Voltage and current regulation only have to fall within certain parameters on the PS bd, which supplies ALL the voltages for the rest of the unit, including other power supplies downline from it. Each set is then set up from THAT PS board, the one it was assembled with. No other board will have that same combination of currents and voltages. Yours is the only board that will preserve EVERYTHING the factory did for your set.

For that reason it is best to get THAT board restored completely, rather than replacing it with ANY other board.

Contact me directly if you want to send me the board. It is a piece of cake to get out and put back in, owners all over the country are doing it - not just those who are technically inclined but newbies and totally non-handy types as well.

If you can find a tech willing to just remove the board so you can send it, have someone do that. Should cost you next to nothing. Or if you have a brother or cousin who is handy with a screwdriver, they could do it as well.

I am always glad to coach whoever needs it on the phone, no charge, in how to get it out and put it back in.

b

RajT

04-19-09, 06:24 PM

Mr Bob

04-19-09, 11:28 PM

OK so I finally got around to taking out the 120 IC's and replaced them with the 180IC's. I am now able to move the red and blue when I do the convergenece but the 3 colors still seem to be off and split. Is there something I need to do any this point so I can get a normal picture? I wasn't able to move the blue at all before but is functioning correctly now. Any suggestions would be helpful.

Raj

There's a whole procedure you need to do to get it right, with certain things happening before others, and the sm registers on a Pioneer are not scroll type, they are random access type. Meaning that you have to know what you're doing BEFORE you do it. You can't just flail around in there and try this or that until you get right, or you'll paint yourself into a corner real fast.

Elites are not the easiest brands to do by far. There are lots of nips and tucks. It's best to be in touch with someone in the know about stuff like this.

b

djones18

04-21-09, 01:43 PM

It's Free if you want it! Just haul it away. Fix it up.

I have a Pioneer Pro-510 with the fluctuating brightness issue which requires resoldering the Power Board. In all other respects, it works like a new set. It has less than 700 hours on the tubes. I've decided, reluctantly, to give this TV away and purchase a new Kuro Plasma.

Mr Bob indicated to me he'll take on refurbishing the the powerboard for a reasonable fee and I'm sure he' do it for you too.

If you live within driving distance of Alexandria, Virginia, have a truck, and at least two friends to load it, it's yours!

Respond via PM if interested.

Owners manual and original packing materials if you want them. I'm unable to lift (bad back), so remember, you'll need to bring muscle.

RajT

04-22-09, 06:31 PM

There's a whole procedure you need to do to get it right, with certain things happening before others, and the sm registers on a Pioneer are not scroll type, they are random access type. Meaning that you have to know what you're doing BEFORE you do it. You can't just flail around in there and try this or that until you get right, or you'll paint yourself into a corner real fast.

Elites are not the easiest brands to do by far. There are lots of nips and tucks. It's best to be in touch with someone in the know about stuff like this.

b

Bob,

When I am in the convergance grid the 3 colors have a curvage in them. One curved upwards, the other ones curves from left to right. What is causing this if I have replaced the IC's to the 180's? Even before replacing the IC's this was the case but couldn't more the Blue around. The only thing that was solved with replacing the 120's with the 180's is that I can control the red and blue color but the grid is not in a straight vertical and horizontal line. by the way I keep saying 120's is because i had them replaced once before from the old 110's. I really don't have the cash flow to have this done out side and am pretty tech savy so please help me on this.

RT

Mr Bob

04-22-09, 10:37 PM

I am sure you will find whatever you want if you surf the internet hard enough. But this thing you want to cure is not easy stuff. What needs to happen now is the geo/conv alignment of your picture structure. Very few people know how to do this anymore, or are willing to do it anymore. They all seem to want that quick easy fixed pixel money for today's newest calibrations.

I will continue to make myself available for CRT calibrations, because I love them. I will continue to do them till they have completely disappeared, which I hope will continue to be many years from now. There are various ways to enlist my help, if you need it, including by phone.

But if you want to get it done for free, surfing will probably be your best bet. Hope you get the right information.

If you want the right information out of the starting gate, I am available by phone or in person.

b

Mr Bob

04-25-09, 11:57 AM

This was just posted in a Hitachi thread, thought I'd share it with you here. Cal tours cover all sorts of brands, not just one.

If you'd like to climb on board, contact both him and me. Me directly, not be pm please -

b

I have spoken with Bob and would like to get him out for a tour in the Chicago area, whether other people are interested or if it ends up being just me. I have tried contacting a few other potentially interested parties, but haven't got any responses. If anyone is serious about wanting in, send me a PM and we can discuss further.

sgelber

05-02-09, 02:52 PM

Mr Bob

05-02-09, 04:02 PM

Thanks to Mr. Bob and all the great information he provided I have the PWS problem resolved however I am in need of some additional information so perhaps someone out there ca assist me.

In the service manual (ARP3051) using factory mode settings I am trying to adjust the overscan and horizontal settings but before I do so I need to under stand what H PHA (15k), H PHA (33k) mean. My problem is that the picture is too wide and also needs to be centered. The vertical size is perfect. If someone can provide instructions and the sequence for doing this I would very much appreciate it.

H PHA is the hor positioning. 15K is SD/480i/p, 33K is HD/1080i. Neither has anything to do with the width of the pic.

Vertical size is global, affecting both SD and HD.

O'scan redux is not for the faint of heart. There are things you won't know about until after you've tripped their land mines. A phone consultation with someone TOTALLY adept at them is your best bet.

b

P in Pgh

05-03-09, 11:08 AM

Hey, new to this forum as a contributor, but wanted to reiterate hope for Elite RP owners out there...

Our set started doing the "black-screen" thing last year, and we stumbled upon Mr. Bob's comments...ended up pulling out the PS board and shipping it to him in San Fran. The set had become totally disabled by that point, so we were not too hopeful that a *simple* re-solder would salvage it. We were wrong. A small number of $$$ and a couple of weeks later, our set was completely back and rock-solid.

Earlier this year, then, when one day the convergence just went haywire and the picture split into two out-of-sync pink/green images (attached), we sought out advice from Mr. Bob again.

He said "sounds like just the Conv bd...send it over" and sure enough, a few new ICs later, we were again plugging in a board, and finding our set entirely restored.

For months prior to finding this forum, we had fretted that our only real option was going to be rolling the Elite down to the end of the driveway for the garbage collectors, and buying a new set. Mind you, we had had a factory-authorized service guy out the first time around, and while he was nice enough and appeared genuinely earnest in his desire and efforts to figure out the problem, he had absolutely no idea what was wrong, or what to do. In fact, being in Pittsburgh, he had actually never even seen one of the Elite sets and was hugely surprised when he opened up the back and found a pile more than the usual 2 boards...

In any case, here's what I wrote back to Mr. Bob last month...the sentiment goes to all of you who volunteer your time and efforts to share knowledge and help folks out just because it's the right thing to do:

"Bob, you did it again...our Elite PRO 510-HD fired up perfectly with
the renewed Conv BD. Thank you!!

Later in the year, hopefully, we will be able to afford having you fly
out to clean off the lenses and fine-tune everything...until then just
know that you have our gratitude...it's so amazing that the internet
could bring specialists like you to end-users' doorstep and that
perfectly good equipment could be saved from simply rolling out to the
trash heap, isn't it? This is such a Disposable Society...nobody even
thinks about fixing things any more, and even truly competent Service
People are hard to find...

Anyway, you're restored more than our TV, if you get what I'm saying.
Many thanks."

~Zodiac~

05-05-09, 07:00 AM

Hello Mr.Bob,
I have the same thing listed there happening with my TV a Pioneer ELITE PRO-510HD. It pops, shrinks and goes off and wont come back on. It has happened a few times and I just powered it off for a time and it worked again. At the moment it wont stay on at all. I powered it off and unplugged it for over 3 hours and when I turned it all back on the light goes to green for about a second and the clicks off and red light is on. When I shut the main power off for a few seconds and try again it repeats the same thing. I opened the lower back panel and two red lights show up after the shutdown. By these two separate lights it indicates the light is for (I am guessing),"Power down". I don't know what to do to fix this... Does it need repair and if so what would be the best to fix the problem. I also see that you have spoke of HDMI conversions, tuning up these TV to top notch performance what do you charge for doing this and how would we go about it, that it unless this TV is ruined? Thanks for your Help I have included two pics showing the RED lit lights.
Thanks for the help.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3634/3503428963_53ded87910_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3289/3503428843_aa9bef824b_o.jpg

Mr Bob

05-05-09, 09:39 AM

I highly recommend that anyone wanting to be in the know about this problem, to at least read some of this thread!

:p

All the answers to your ?'s (except pricing) are contained in the previous page of this thread, starting with post 1777. For pricing contact me directly please, and NOT by pm. Suffice it to say that what it costs to fix it is a drop in the bucket compared to buying new, to get the kind of quality that's even somewhat similar to what this set is capable of. These sets are classic, they are EMMINENTLY worth fixing, even today, and owners all over the continent are keeping them alive and for good reason, via this thread. These are AWESOME sets.

Go 1 page back on this thread and read that entire page - if that's too rich for your blood, read at least my entries, the ones from Mr Bob. Most of what you need to know is there. For how awesome your set can look after being saved, you WILL have to go farther back. Scroll pages till you see pictures. I believe page 45 was good for those, you'll see how AMAZING these sets can still look, and why this thread about how to save them is still going strong, after more than 4 years here...

Page 58 has a pictorial with among other things before and afters on a set of your vintage. It also talks about the shimming op and how much it can improve your pix.

You have let it go just a little too far without taking action, and have now blown your conv bd. If you had followed the advice that's been repeated over and over on this thread, you woulda shut your set down at the first sign of trouble and it would never have gotten this far.

That said, lots of times this happens out of the blue without any warning, and without any intermittent ops acting as warnings. Which is on Pioneer, not the owner.

Whenever the conv bd LED goes on, chances are its ICs are blown and need to be replaced. That's usually all that goes wrong when the red LED on the conv bd is glowing.

Best way to handle it is to get that done first, then turn on your set, and if that was the problem it will work again. But then you gotta SHUT IT DOWN PROMPTLY - within 40 seconds - do NOT allow it to warm up at all. Keep it stone cold.

The problem with the conv bd is usually the hinky conns in the PS bd having sent it a dangerous voltage spike, once the set has warmed up to cruising temp. You can send the conv bd to me to get the ICs replaced, and once the set is up and running again/ops have returned, then the PS bd should then be sent to me for resoldering. Again from dead cold and without warming up the set. This means WITHOUT the set being run again for more than 40 seconds, after having been off enough to thoroughly cool down. Let it go cold and DON'T allow it to warm up again until the PS bd has been resoldered.

Any set that has normal ops most of the time but with the intermittents currently happening should shut their set down immediately, even if you're presently watching it while you read this. The spike that will take your set down hard and cost you expensive board replacements or repairs could be just minutes - or even seconds - away. SHUT YOUR SET DOWN NOW. Then keep reading.

Here's a reprint from the previous page, the reference to Baltimore is still valid, the second trip is now forming, get on board if you want in. His set's PS bd has not yet taken out the conv bd, but most likely it will if he keeps running it. Note that I do not recommend changeout of the PS or conv bds, neither one will need replacement. The ONLY board that ever needs replacement is the deflection board, if it goes that far.

If your set has now been turned off and is presently cooling down, please continue reading:

I'm a Pioneer 710HD owner. I've read this thread, and notice a majority of the people with the power supply issue are seeing flashing and hearing poping sounds. My problem is a dimming of the TV while watching it. The TV gets dark for a few seconds, then returns to normal after a while (sometimes immediately, sometimes after about 20 seconds or so). The input doesn't matter (component and rgb are what I use the most). I don't hear any popping or see any flashing of any kind, so I wanted to know from the forum if this is a problem that has been experienced by someone else, or is this the precursor to the Power Supply issue?

If so, my next question is where do I get the proper hardware for the fix, and how do I get it fixed (along with getting my TV calibrated, as it has never been professionally calibrated since I had it)?

I'm in the Baltimore/Washington area, and prefer to have a service tech come out to service the TV rather than try and remove parts, or move the TV myself. I truly have a fear of damaging this TV, and don't want to take any chances being a DIY novice.

I was just in Baltimore, and have a Mit to finish once the part that was ordered is installed by the owner. That should get it working again, at which point we will be looking at me coming back there to fully calibrate it, including the shimming op for o'scan redux.

If you want to be part of that, contact me. I would be glad to calibrate your set, and to fix it as well. There aren't very many calibrators left who are qualified to bring out the best in CRT RPTV anymore. I not only do that, but also fully restore your PS board, whether sent to me or on location with your unit.

The important thing right now is to STOP USING YOUR SET before expensive damage downline from that PS board occurs. DON'T let it warm up to cruising temp again till restored, not even once. Those cold solder joints on the PS board that are now failing in units all over the continent can take many manifestations, and yours is but one that we've heard of here, of the many reported on this thread.

IF IT'S AN INTERMITTENT PROBLEM YOU'RE EXPERIENCING ON YOUR 510/610/710 or 520/620/720 - or the non-Elite versions of the same years - YOU CAN TRUST THAT THE COLD SOLDER CONNECTIONS ON YOUR PS BOARD ARE THE SOURCE OF THAT PROBLEM. Don't take any chances on your multi-thousand dollar unit. Shut it down until your PS board has had the proper attention. Only half the x20 series was affected because they used the same board as the x10 series, but ALL of the x10 series was affected.

If you want to preserve the precision of how your 710 was set up at the factory - highly recommended, the things we do as calibrators build completely on that - DON'T get a new/replacement PS bd for it. That would be starting from scratch, and possibly with a repair tech who has NO idea what real calibration is all about. Voltage and current regulation only have to fall within certain parameters on the PS bd, which supplies ALL the voltages for the rest of the unit, including other power supplies downline from it. Each set is then set up from THAT PS board, the one it was assembled with. No other board will have that same combination of currents and voltages. Yours is the only board that will preserve EVERYTHING the factory did for your set.

For that reason it is best to get THAT board restored completely, rather than replacing it with ANY other board.

Contact me directly if you want to send me the board. It is a piece of cake to get out and put back in, owners all over the country are doing it - not just those who are technically inclined but newbies and totally non-handy types as well.

If you can find a tech willing to just remove the board so you can send it, have someone do that. Should cost you next to nothing. Or if you have a brother or cousin who is handy with a screwdriver, they could do it as well.

I am always glad to coach whoever needs it on the phone, no charge, in how to get it out and put it back in.

b

Mr Bob

05-07-09, 02:35 PM

BTW, the Mit 73" in Baltimore has now been repaired successfully and is awaiting my return to do the rest of the work that could not get done with the set needing repair on my last visit.

So at least 2 owners are already on board. Contact me directly - not by pm please - if you want in on my upcoming trip to that area.

b

Mr Bob

05-12-09, 12:38 PM

I just added one little paragraph above, after saying how often it has been said here that the unit needs to be shut down at the first sign of intermittents.

"That said, lots of times this happens out of the blue without any warning, and without any intermittent ops acting as warnings. Which is on Pioneer, not the owner."

b

Mr Bob

05-12-09, 12:39 PM

Zodiac, what's the status?

b

gfortune1981

05-16-09, 02:08 PM

Bob,

I left you a phone message earlier today.

I had contacted you a few weeks ago concerning my 710HD where the RED, GREEN, and BLUE are split and the picture looks wavy on channel 1, when connected to the components ports. I did bypass the problem by using channel 2 component connections. I have heard no pops or any other noises. I do get some reduction in brightness immediately when I start the 710HD. I also use an HDFury2 to connect to the HDMI cable from the Denon receiver, and then from the HDFury2 component cables to channel 2.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Gary

Quote:
Originally Posted by RajT View Post
Hello everyone,

I need some help with my Pioneer Elite 510HD. All of a sudden the picture on the TV is all screwed up to where the RED, GREEN, and BLUE are split and the picture looks wavy. I am suspecting that one of the resisters on the convergence board is shot but I don not know which board is the convergence board. I did smell something burning as soon as it happened so a resister definetly went. Any help or suggesting is greatful.

RT

This sounds like a convergence problem. It usually doesn't involve a burnt resistor on this series, but since the ICs usually croak and blow fuses, one resistor or another could very well be fried.

I would recommend changing out JUST the ICs and the blown resistor, NOT the board itself. Starting from scratch on geometry and convergence on CRT tech is not for the faint of heart, the impatient, the inexperienced nor the ill-advised...

Mr Bob

05-16-09, 11:32 PM

As I said on the phone, I suspect the cold solder joint problem is just starting, and that you should take care of it immediately, and not use your set too much more until it's fixed. At the first sign of the problems listed here, get it in to me. If you don't want to take any chances and have read enough of this thread to know that you won't get out with your skin on this one without professional attention to it, send it now.

The input problem is affecting only input 1, so I suspect a cold solder joint on that input also, probably on the Y jack.

b

gfortune1981

05-18-09, 04:39 PM

Bob, thanks for talking with me on the phone and your email. I was lucky to find a local repairman who has been in the large TV repair business for over 20 years, who re soldered all the solder joints on the power supply board and the output 1 on the Y jack. Cost me the exact amount you indicated, too!

Thanks for all your help and helping me to ensure the right solder areas were the problem!

Gary

<As I said on the phone, I suspect the cold solder joint problem is just starting, and that you should take care of it immediately, and not use your set too much more until it's fixed. At the first sign of the problems listed here, get it in to me. If you don't want to take any chances and have read enough of this thread to know that you won't get out with your skin on this one without professional attention to it, send it now.

The input problem is affecting only input 1, so I suspect a cold solder joint on that input also, probably on the Y jack.>

Mr Bob

05-18-09, 05:11 PM

Great! Now you ready to really get your set looking superb? You don't let a Lamborghini sit around without being tuned up on a regular basis, if you want its best work...

b

~Zodiac~

05-28-09, 03:31 PM

Well I just got my STK392-180's and some other goddies then got on here to check on a few things. Me and a buddy are going to do as Mr. Bob instructed and swap em out. I'll let you know how it goes I also figured I would upload the manuals I have for those that need em'. I paid for em but you can have for free. Although if you have the ARP3086 manual please send me that one as its the only one I am missing. All are in PDF... Enjoy and good luck DIY'ers.

Pioneer Elite PRO-510HD & PRO-610HD Owners Manual - ARB1527.pdf (3.82 MB)
http://www.mediafire.com/?cdjjkhzdrmk
Pioneer Elite PRO-510HD & PRO-610HD Service Manuals- ARP3047 & ARP3051.pdf (20.65 MB)
http://www.mediafire.com/file/320o0qiyzmy

~Zodiac~

05-28-09, 09:18 PM

Ok well my buddy never showed up to help me install the STK392-180's... But all week I have been honing my soldering skills on old DirectTV recievers ,old radios and VCRs... All worked well once I desolderd parts, removed em' and reinstalled and solderd em back. That said I went ahead and replaced the 110's with the 180's myself with my 3year old watching close by(partialy calmly). A few minutes ago I just got the SOB all back together and sure enough as Mr Bob said it fired right up. No shutdown lights at all. I only let it run long enough to see the words pop up on the bottom right and then powered it down, about 10sec. I did it once more as my woman wanted to see that it infact worked again(partialy at least)... same 10 sec. Now it is unpluged and I just wanted to ask wether or not it is good or do I still need to resolder the PS board. I have no LED's lighting in the back either time I fired it up and never had a blue flickering problem in the first place. The people I originaly got it from a few years back said thay had it serviced, so the board may already have been resolderd. So should I do it anyway. Either way is fine by me I just dont want to hurt it more if it is already fine.

Mr Bob

05-29-09, 03:09 AM

No way to know under the circs. The board may have been replaced and not have any of the original board's problems. Sometimes the conv ICs go out without the PS bd being at fault, just from age and many years of faithful service. Those conv ICs are really pushed hard in there, doing what they do.

At the first sign of any sort of intermittent connection, tho, you should shut it down immediately and remove the board and send it to me. Before it has a chance to get worse and worse till it takes your set down.

Don't try to resolder it on your own, as you are not a trained and experienced professional in the field. There are literally hundreds of tiny solder connections in there. You must get every one of them right without having even one solder bridge. It is an op that is not for the faint of heart, to say the least, it takes painstaking patience, dogged determination and excellent professional grade practices - magnification and excellent lighting for starters - to really do it right...

b

Mr Bob

05-29-09, 03:53 AM

Calibrated by yours truly, of course...

:p

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/4858/lylelovettfacejoebarnha.jpg[/URL]

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/5844/imgp5369.jpg[/URL]

~Zodiac~

05-29-09, 06:12 AM

I'd love to get mine like that Mr Bob.. good looking screens

Well after removing the PS board I guess I can plainly see what the main problem is T101!! I guess this is why this happend and why I never had any blue flickering problem, looks like the on an off I was doing to make it work back before it went and I found this forum blew these joints all to hell. I am still going to re solder the E3, E5, IC202 & IC204 joints as well as fix this I guess. What could have cause this? See the first left and right pins on T101 Day-um! Also quick question are the 4 an 6 pins supposed to be bare on the T101 as you see here in the pic? I also included a pic of the E's to see if you all think theres any obvious poblems there as well.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2462/3575001041_53f5497351_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3363/3575809444_b7a51eabdf_o.jpg

Mr Bob

05-29-09, 10:51 AM

This is the first time I have seen the transformer legs form the halo around them on these PS bds, but I'm not surprised. This used to happen all the time on the SD-P line. I saw one this way but much worse on the transformer of a JBL projector once. It was so big you could drive a truck thru it, COMPLETELY visible to the naked eye.

The bare pins yes are supposed to be bare.

The rest is moot. If you just partially solder this board and try to get individual points remedied that way, you have NOT done your homework in reading this thread, and have not discovered why a shotgun approach to this problem is the only one that works. Other connections that are fine now but have not been resoldered will go in short order sometime in the future, probably 6 months to a year from now, and you'll be back where you started, possibly with worse damage next time. Yours is even worse than most I've seen.

Read about how much of the soldering you need to do. It's a massive job, if you want it done right. If you are a professional grade solderer and have the temperament to be doing hundreds of fine, small connections and the patience to do every one of them thoroughly with the correct solder temperature without creating ANY solder bridges - and are willing to double and triple inspect your work afterwards, before allowing the board back into your set - have at it.

Otherwise, there are other options. One is sending it to me. If you elect to send it to me, it'll get done right for sure. It will be a permanent fix and won't go out on you again.

You were lucky the conv ICs are what went. If it had been the deflection board instead, the entire board woulda had to be replaced, at hundreds of dollars more than you have paid so far. We never even try to save those boards, they are too complex.

You've dodged a bullet this time. Don't push it -

b

Mr Bob

05-29-09, 06:45 PM

I realize I come down a little hard on those who show up on this thread and ask question after question after question without ever reading anything else here in these huge number of pages, questions that virtually always have already been answered elsewhere here in this thread. I have even been congrat'd on my patience, with all the repetition I deal with every day!

My recommendation if you're new to this thread, is to please read at least the last page or 2 before chiming in. We have done LOADS of work here in this thread, we have singlehandedly come up with the solution to a problem that Pioneer has totally turned its back on. Hitachi went to the mattresses and came up with a whole new board that they install FREE to their owners, when their HDMI circuit was constantly going awry and having horizontal shifts, plus other anomalies. They install that completely redesigned board for ALL their owners, for FREE. Parts AND labor. They come to your home, you don't have to lift a finger.

Pioneer? They awhile ago were willing to give you a new PS bd, as long as their authorized people were allowed to do the installation of it. For a substantial fee, of course. More than I charge for resoldering your native PS board when you send it to me. And even THAT has now gone the way of the dinosaur. To Pioneer, you owners with the sets these problems are happening to are yesterday's news. You're on your own, to them. Completely out in the cold, flying in the wind. Try it. Call 'em. See what response you get.

But the intrepid readers of this thread kept chiming in whenever and whatever they could, and together we found a way to save their sets. Between me and other talented DIYers, we have saved literally TONS of these incredible sets from going down in flames and winding up in our country's already overburdened landfills. Beautiful sets, capable of incredibly faithful reproduction of HD - and SD - with not a thing wrong with them except a badly performed production operation on Pioneer's part, way back on the assembly line. A problem very straighforwardly solved.

The answers are here. I'm not saying go back to the beginning and read the whole thing, it takes more attention to do that than to resolder one of the PS boards!

But at least read the last page or 2, before chiming in. The essence of what we've learned is there. Check it out.

Then climb on board, help us continue saving these incredible machines!

;)

Mr Bob

camelpowered

05-29-09, 08:57 PM

Mr Bob

05-30-09, 08:16 PM

If you have any doubts as to whether TO save your set vs. buying new, go to page 45 of this thread and find out what they are REALLY capable of, from screenshots I have personally sent up. Shots by Joe Barnhart, above, of HD images on his Mr Bob calibrated 510 are also VERY indicative of the phenomenal HD images these sets are cable of.

Don't buy new! Get your incredible set fixed - and then cleaned and possible even calibrated - and just keep on enjoying it! No need to be out several grand again, from buying new.

b

Mr Bob

05-30-09, 08:25 PM

Wow Zodiak! You might as well have taken a picture of my power supply board. My pin 1 of T101 looked exactly like yours does. My issue also smoked something on my deflection board. I have since replaced the deflection board and performed triage on the power supply board. Besides the witness mark on pin 1 of T101, I also found a fractured solder connection of the grounded pin of the heat sink of IC 201. There were no other issues, but just to make sure I re-flowed each pin of each connector and touched up D101 which looked a little questionable. I also reviewed all other solder connections. This was not too bad as I have access to a 16x magnification Metcal soldering station.

By the way, it seems as though your photo also shows over-current witness marks and a fractured connection on pin 18 of T101 (across from pin 1).

Even though this board is as basic as you can get (single-sided, single layer, pass-through mount), if you are not comfortable with soldering many points in close proximity, I would recommend just sending this board to Mr. Bob and be done with it.

chris.

Another well done but temporary job by a well meaning but still uninformed owner.

Just doing the points that are bad now is NOT the answer in this situation! More will go bad soon.

THE ENTIRE BOARD WAS BADLY SOLDERED BY THAT IMPROPERLY SET UP SOLDER FLOW MACHINE.

EVERY point that directly connects anything to anything in there that was part of the original solder flow op, needs to be resoldered. No exceptions! Otherwise as the set continues to age and to warm up and cool down again each day, more intermittent and each time potentially damaging connections will keep breaking free and going non-connected. Picture what would happen if a ground for a voltage regulator taking in 135v and putting out 12 - under optimal conditions - were to let loose. That circuitry expecting 12v would not all of a sudden be getting 135v because the ground is not clamping properly and thus reglulating the voltage properly. You wonder why the deflection board blew???

That is just one simple example. Since we don't know which conn will let loose next, we can't take any chances. The next one could be the one that takes your set down VERY expensively, and possibly even total it.

A shotgun approach is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL in this case. NOT finding what's bad now and fixing just that. Literally hundreds of connections need redoing, on that board, without ONE solder bridge between 2 points that should not be touching each other, happening as a result.

b

~Zodiac~

06-01-09, 09:37 PM

Well got it all fixed last night. Total hrs 510's been on: about 16hrs, no probs at this point(Fingers Crossed!). I desoldered the PS board and resoldereed it anew. It took me quite a while as I had not done a full resoldering project prior to this, but was extremly careful to to it correct. I did all the joints, and made sure to check for bridging where where it was, and was not supposed to be(took about an 1hr just to recheck my work, over kill probably but o'well). I cleaned the mirror and guns via postings in another forum a couple days ago(have not done deep cleaning yet). It looks phathams better than it did already. I now just got through with the multipoint convergenve after 2hrs of tweeking it. I also finaly got to use my D-sub 15(VGA) male to male cable I bought last week to conect to pc to watch Blu-Ray vids fom my PC. I had to download AnyDVD, PowerStrip and a few other programs to get that working correctly. Well I am off to calibratie it and whatever else I can do personaly, Hope this is problem is all behind me for now. Thanks for the help(unless it goes into shutdown again).

Mr Bob

06-02-09, 01:38 AM

Great! Send up some pictures when it's ready!

Just so y'all know, it is NOT necessary to DEsolder the board. All it needs is refreshment of the already existing solder, and feeding it the correct amount of fresh solder in the resoldering process.

I usually triple the amount of solder currently on the board, because the original solder flow op left it VERY thin.

When you can hit a joint with the tip of your soldering iron and a crevasse forms between the leg and the pad big enough to drive a truck thru, you KNOW the solder used originally was WAY too thin!

I do this all the time on the boards I resolder, some of the joints are especially impressive on how big a truck you can drive thru that crevasse, so I do them first, just to guage how far along the problem is on THAT particular board.

Then I add whatever amount of solder it's thirsty for, from not being done right the first time...

I am not surprised it took an hour to check it. I check, doublecheck and then recheck it again before I finally send it out, usually to the other side of the country...

I just got an email from a guy with a 643HD in HAWAII, who will be sending me his board as soon as he gets home from work and can confirm that the PS bd is mounted vertically to the bulkhead of his unit.

BTW, Zodiac, what does "phathams better" mean?

:confused:

Like fathoms, maybe? That would make some sense I guess, if you use your imagination a little...

;)

b

PS - does your 15 pin VGA input look any better than your component input, on the same materials?

rabbitx86

06-03-09, 07:50 PM

Hey, Mr Bob

I picked up an Elite Pro 200 today (got it for free because of this ZAP-off problem). I've taken off the back, but I'm not really sure how to get the power board out, it's quite big.

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/912/copyofp1010018.jpg

There's a shot of what I think is the power board, but I'd like some confirmation before I go disassembling the thing.

djones18

06-04-09, 11:50 AM

One last time before it goes to recycle center, if you live near Alexandria, Virginia, have a truck, and friends who can help you lift it, you can have my Elite Pro-510 TV. Remember, it is big and heavy! You can have original packing materials if you want...owners manual included.

I'm fairly sure it suffers only the powerboard solder issue (causing screen to intermittently brighten then go back to normal). Mr Bob has discussed this at length in this thread and will gladly repair it if you send him the powerboard. No guarantees of course.

Otherwise this TV is in perfect condition. It has been turned off since the flashing began one month ago. Even though it's 9yrs old, it has less than 700 hours on the CRTs and is in like-new condition. Reason it is in great condition is I've been deployed (in the military) about five of those nine years, during which time it was off. I'd like to keep this TV but I'm going for the Pioneer Kuro 60inch Plasma before they go extinct.

PM me if interested.

Dave

Mr Bob

06-04-09, 12:21 PM

If it currently turns on normally from dead cold and has a completely normal picture while dead cold and the intermittencies only happen after it has had a chance to warm up, it's a prime candidate for my resoldering op.

If it was shut down while in this condition and will work perfectly next time it's turned on, then it should be kept cold for the duration until fixed before being warmed up again EVEN ONE TIME. When testing it, don't run it for more than 1 minute total and you'll be assured it has not had a chance to warm up.

If it's in that ideal condition now - well, next to ideal anyway - it can be sent to me and I can assure the new owner that it will get back to him in the same working order as sent, but WITHOUT the dangerous intermittent operation that is at present bugging it after warm-up.

Being dangerous because each intermittency sends spikes down the power lines, and if one of those spikes goes major, it will take out a board downline, becoming a lot more expensive than if it gets cured right now, before anything more dangerous to it happens.

So whoever takes this prime machine off Dave's hands, contact me for the resoldering process and we'll get her stabilized again for you, with rock-solid operations restored for you from then on.

With that kind of low hours on it, many happy years are left in it, of sizzling HD images, like the ones on page 45!

b

Mr Bob

06-04-09, 12:31 PM

Here they are again -

Credit for the supertight image structure of these pix goes to its owner, Chad Gilbertson, of Ellsworth, WI.

This was a limited contribution on my part, I only helped him with the deeper optics cleaning and dialing in the grayscale on sm, which he had nearly already pegged himself, in User. I did the Cantilever Technique for him, after which he saw that 2 of his colors were still out of focus on optical. He was going to correct that ASAP after I left. These pix are with more optical focus error than I allow in my full calibrations.

Awesome caretaking by an owner! I was very impressed -

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/2142/mntrip308screenshotsofcyt2.jpg[/URL]

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/7756/mntrip308screenshotsofcde4.jpg[/URL]

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/4689/mntrip308screenshotsofcry8.jpg[/URL]

Our sleepy hero, about to get a rude awakening...

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5871/mntrip308screenshotsofcve6.jpg[/URL]

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6717/mntrip308screenshotsofccf6.jpg[/URL]

Mr Bob

06-04-09, 12:31 PM

This set required restoration of the brightness from a relatively dim picture, which nearly every set I encounter these days in this series, needs. When I start, the Black Level is having to be run at plus 12-15 on every 510/610/710 I have been doing these days, to have enough light to even attempt to see into the dark areas. When I am finished, it is running at midpoint again, with full punch, as these pictures show.

Remember, any excess blue edging you see in the images is due to digital camera artifacting, it does not appear on the screen itself from normal viewing distances -

Hit F11 to open up your screen and see these pix better -

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/2707/mntrip308screenshotsofdqo8.jpg[/URL]

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/6743/mntrip308screenshotsofdcr9.jpg[/URL]

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/1873/mntrip308screenshotsofduk4.jpg[/URL]

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/945/mntrip308screenshotsofddh1.jpg[/URL]

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/6281/mntrip308screenshotsofdna5.jpg[/URL]

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7659/mntrip308screenshotsofdfv0.jpg[/URL]

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/3064/mntrip308screenshotsofdzu4.jpg[/URL]

Mr Bob

06-04-09, 12:32 PM

Ken had already reduced his overscan quite effectively, using registers I had forgotten about in the sm, which I will continue to use in the future. My thanks to him for this little refresher course!

I was able to charge him half the usual o'scan reduction fee, to take over and straighten out whatever was still left to do, which was still a bit substantial out at the edges.

Still, the material in the main viewing area was quite tightly stitched together, emminently enjoyable. Pioneers have some quirks that take some getting used to, to come up with the picture being coherent all around. And of course the Pio grid is totally blank at the top, leaving several inches of height without a grid to align to -

Not bad end results for an 7 year old display. I'd say Elite owners have at least 3 more good years to look forward to out of their sets, of their pix looking just as good as we have here -

This first one shows how blue-white the grayscale usually is, OOB -

Memento -

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/2581/copyofcopyofmntrip308scry8.jpg[/URL]

This is before the cleaning and calibration. Remember, the blue outlining does not appear to the naked eye, it is an artifact of the digital photography we are doing here. Neither Ken nor myself saw any of that blue outlining from his normal viewing position, around 6' away.

Notice the bleariness, and the internal reflection on his cheek of his bright forehead, on the opposing portion of the screen -

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/5631/copyofmntrip308screenshkz0.jpg[/URL]

This is after the cleaning and blackening of the metal plating with big and small Sharpie pens. Bleariness and internal reflection gone -

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/2227/copy2ofmntrip308screenson5.jpg[/URL]

Hugh Jackman - from The Fountain. That really weird one where he travels thru time on various adventures and incarnations, trying to save his loved one from dying...

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/4295/copy2ofmntrip308screensul4.jpg[/URL]

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/6441/copy2ofmntrip308screensop7.jpg[/URL]

Mr Bob

06-04-09, 12:42 PM

Hey, Mr Bob

I picked up an Elite Pro 200 today (got it for free because of this ZAP-off problem). I've taken off the back, but I'm not really sure how to get the power board out, it's quite big.

There's a shot of what I think is the power board, but I'd like some confirmation before I go disassembling the thing.

On a 200 there's currently no knowing whether it's the PS bd that's the one causing the problems. On the SD-P line of the same vintage, it was somtimes the deflection board.

You gotta take them all out and look at them. Maybe keeping them on their plate and lying down underneath the board, propped up at an angle, would do the trick, rather than actually removing them, at least till you know for sure which board is affected.

You never unwire a board from your set unless absolutely necessary -

b

rabbitx86

06-04-09, 02:19 PM

On a 200 there's currently no knowing whether it's the PS bd that's the one causing the problems. On the SD-P line of the same vintage, it was somtimes the deflection board.

You gotta take them all out and look at them. Maybe keeping them on their plate and lying down underneath the board, propped up at an angle, would do the trick, rather than actually removing them, at least till you know for sure which board is affected.

You never unwire a board from your set unless absolutely necessary -

bAny tips on getting them out? I can't remove anything right now (there are some extremely well hidden screws, or something).

Mr Bob

06-05-09, 11:32 AM

I'd have to be on location with you to help you out on this one. Sorry!

:o

b

rabbitx86

06-05-09, 12:37 PM

I'd have to be on location with you to help you out on this one. Sorry!

:o

b

You wouldn't happen to be going to Philadelphia anytime soon, would you?

But thanks anyway. I'll see what I can do, and if it's nothing then there's no loss.

Mr Bob

06-05-09, 02:03 PM

~Zodiac~

06-06-09, 06:49 AM

I sure wish I was in NY... A nice 710 with the problem is going cheap!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Pioneer-Elite-Pro-710HD-TV_W0QQitemZ320379706380QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTelevisions?hash= item4a981e5c0c&_trksid=p4295.c0.m299&_trkparms=240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

I'll get back to you on your question you asked me Mr. Bob... gotta get some sleep at the moment.

rabbitx86

06-09-09, 06:35 PM

bweissman

06-09-09, 07:36 PM

This is after the cleaning and blackening of the metal plating with big and small Sharpie pens. Bleariness and internal reflection gone.Another way to blacken small areas is with Duvetape (http://www.msegrip.com/mse.php?show=product&cat=424&products_ID=25586). I love this stuff. I put it everywhere inside my Pio 610 which was too small for a piece of Duvetyne, and also used it to hold up some Duvetyne in areas where staples were impractical. I Duve'd my set back in 2002 or so, and none of the tape has come loose.

bweissman

06-09-09, 07:44 PM

Specifically this post is aimed at Mr Bob: where is the problem likely to be (if you can tell me based only on these underside shots)?Rabbit, Rabbit, Rabbit. You haven't been keeping up.

I can tell you what Mr Bob is going to say. Because he's already said it in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16548112#post16548112).

sailakfan

06-09-09, 08:23 PM

Cold solder joints don't take a whole lot of technical experience in the troubleshooting. Worst case scenario you have some repair tech in who does know how to get to the undersides of those boards, and have him fix it.

The repair fee on something like that will be minor compared to some of the problems that CAN happen with electronics -

b

Greetings Mr.Bob,
I have a Pro 510 purchased in 2001 and in 2006 it started shutting down every now and then. It was still under warranty so the technician soldered the PS board and it was working fine. Over the weekend while powering on the set, it just shut down. The standby light never turned green. I removed the back and saw the red light on the board. I would love to get it repaired and calibrated. Is Dallas in your tour schedule in the future. If not are there any Dallasans wanting to get Mr.Bob's service?
Thanks in advance.

rabbitx86

06-09-09, 09:46 PM

Rabbit, Rabbit, Rabbit. You haven't been keeping up.

I can tell you what Mr Bob is going to say. Because he's already said it in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16548112#post16548112).

I was kind of hoping he'd open the pictures in paint, draw a circle around the area, and post the edited image.

kjsmithtx

06-09-09, 11:20 PM

I'd be interested in hearing more about a tour. I have an Elite 710

sailakfan

06-10-09, 06:42 PM

I'd be interested in hearing more about a tour. I have an Elite 710

That is good to hear. I spoke to Mr.Bob last night and he said he would love to visit Dallas. Anybody else in Dallas?

Mr Bob

06-12-09, 12:31 AM

Okay, I've got the board out of the tray, now I would just like some advice on where to look for these bad solder points. I've located 2 pins that aren't soldered AT ALL, which seemed like a problem at first, but I realized it may have been designed that way, so I haven't done anything yet.

The 2 pins I'm talking about are in that horseshoe shaped bit on the bottom right of this image:
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/4575/1020390.th.jpg (http://img44.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1020390.jpg)

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/6314/1020391.th.jpg (http://img196.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1020391.jpg)

Specifically this post is aimed at Mr Bob: where is the problem likely to be (if you can tell me based only on these underside shots)?

If a leg goes thru a hole but has no pad and no run going to it, then it was a spare leg on that particular component. Looks like that's the case here.

Cold solder joints will be flat and lusterless, in direct contrast to a well soldered joint, which will be still gleaming and glossy, years later. A "halo" around the leg is sometimes heavily apparent, halfway out to the edge of the pad. If the solder is very thin - like you touch your soldering iron to it and a big crater forms, I've seen some so big you could drive a truck thru them - then it's inevitable that that joint will eventually fail, what with heat/cold causing expansion/contraction with every turn-on/off.

If you could get a close-up of the board I might be able to see what we're looking for. Make sure the lighting is good.

b

The pix

Mr Bob

06-12-09, 12:33 AM

Another way to blacken small areas is with Duvetape (http://www.msegrip.com/mse.php?show=product&cat=424&products_ID=25586). I love this stuff. I put it everywhere inside my Pio 610 which was too small for a piece of Duvetyne, and also used it to hold up some Duvetyne in areas where staples were impractical. I Duve'd my set back in 2002 or so, and none of the tape has come loose.

Hey, long time no see! Good to hear from ya!

Can you tell me where to order both? I'd like to stock up.

;)

b

Mr Bob

06-12-09, 12:39 AM

I was kind of hoping he'd open the pictures in paint, draw a circle around the area, and post the edited image.

I found cold solder joints in various areas back in the days of the SD-P series. Sometimes it was at the legs of one of the power transformers, sometimes in other places. I have not worked on the 200 series, but the symptoms sure sound the same.

When you have spurious intermittent problems you usually find them all over the board, in which case you gotta just do a shotgun approach, like I do on the x10 series of Pioneer Elite HDreadys. And you gotta do it before something really bad happens from them.

I would not be able to pin down just one area for you. Nor would I be able to tell you which board to look at. You gotta know what cold solder joints look like and what components are most likely to have them.

b

bweissman

06-12-09, 03:12 PM

Can you tell me where to order both? I'd like to stock up.Google and ye shall find. For example, here (http://www.filmtools.com/duvetyne.html).

djones18

06-16-09, 03:27 PM

sailakfan

06-17-09, 09:23 PM

Well folks, noone wants my almost perfect Pro-510 with the PS Board problem. After agonizing long and hard, I just can't stand to see it piled on some landfill or obliterated in some recycling plant. So, I'm sending my PS Board off to Mr. Bob hoping his magic fingers will rejuvenate it. Mr Bob, standby for contact!

Dave

Hello Dave,

You have made a wise decision. I have a 510 and without any warning or any intermittent problems one fine morning the set went pop and shutdown. It would never come back up. With Mr.Bob's expertise we identified the issue and brought the set back to life. But the convergence was messed up.

Right now I have some financial issues, so for sometime I thought just like you to dispose the set but did not had the heart to let it go. Also kept 101% confidence in Mr.Bob's abilities and have shipped my both PS and the convergence boards for him to do his magic.

Once I receive them from Mr.Bob will also be performing a deep optics cleaning. Will update once at that point.

Good luck.

Socio

06-19-09, 10:03 AM

This is after the cleaning and blackening of the metal plating with big and small Sharpie pens. Bleariness and internal reflection gone -

Wow cool trick, I am going to try that.

Question:

I have TWC and cable box shows a 4:3 image on non-HD channels and there is no way to stretch it so I have gotten screen burn in from it.

Is it possible to replace the screen or do you just have to live with it once it happens?

Thanks

Edit: I found a manual online it looks like to replace a burned in screen you would just replace something called a Lenticular Sheet and does not appear to be too difficult.

Johnla

06-20-09, 04:34 AM

Edit: I found a manual online it looks like to replace a burned in screen you would just replace something called a Lenticular Sheet and does not appear to be too difficult.

If you have burn-in from watching 4:3, it is not the Lenticular sheet/screen that gets damaged, it is the CRT's.

And replacing the CRT's is not so easy as far as getting them setup right for a DIY, and it is also not cheap to do.

Socio

06-20-09, 08:41 AM

If you have burn-in from watching 4:3, it is not the Lenticular sheet/screen that gets damaged, it is the CRT's.

And replacing the CRT's is not so easy as far as getting them setup right for a DIY, and it is also not cheap to do.

Really, I always thought burn in was an image being burned in on the screen it self.

If it is the CRT assy parts that need to be replaced they are about $360 each and I would need the R G & B which would be very expensive, and apparently are no longer available so thats out. :(

Maybe if I leave it on HD full screen image for a couple months it will burn over the 4:3 burn in.

Thanks for the info

Edit: just found that Master Burn In thread at the top of this forum going to try and fix it with some of those tricks posted!

Mr Bob

06-20-09, 11:53 AM

Sorry for any redundance - I saw this query last night but was not availalbe, and by the time I had typed this out this morning 2 other replies had occurred, covering some of this. So here's what I wrote:

Screenburn does not happen to the lenticular or fresnel viewscreens, it happens to the CRT faces themselves.

Screenburn is defined as uneven phosphor aging, which is what happens with black sidebars, or gray sidebars with a thick black line of demarcation.

The only way to remedy this is to even up the aging of the phospors. This can be done by showing white sidebars with black in the 4x3 section, or in some other way showing a reverse image of the screenburn itself and aging the more lightly aged phospors to match those that have been aged a lot stronger.

Otherwise the only thing that will cure your situation is replacement of the offending CRTs. Sometimes not all 3 need to be replaced. In your case, if the screenburn is not a changing of the color in these areas but simply a complete lightening/darkening of these areas, all 3 will most likely need to be replaced.

In which case a complete scratch calibration will also have to be performed, from the ground up. I am one of the few calibrators who is also a repair tech as well, and can do both. The regular repair tech will know next to nothing about calibrations, and would not be able to deliver the scratch setup end of the scenario, tho they would be able to install new guns just fine.

I have been warning against screeenburn - and how to prevent it - for the last 10 years minimum. But once it's happened, it's happened, and there are very few avenues left at that point. Dish Network is one of the worst offenders - they have been ruining CRT and plasma tech for years with their 100IRE 100% contrast full white Guide and Menu patterns. I take special measures anytime I go to any of those menus, to keep my overall light level WAY down.

Replacement CRTs can always be obtained via Video Display Corp, you don't need to go to the manufacturer. They can also resurface your phosphor faces, which could be markedly less expensive than actual replacement of the guns. They would still have to be removed, sent away and reinstalled, but there's a good chance the image structure work on your set could then stay the same and not need complete scratch setup.

It could also make available the shimming op for o'scan redux, plus the maximization of the phoshpor face area I presented awhile ago in my Don't Dump thread. You'll find it over there, a few pages back, where I did it on my Mit 73".

If you don't want to go the regunning route, you might find an ID set to yours or an even better size on the used CRT RPTV market and buy it to replace yours. As I have been saying since I started the Don't Dump Your CRT RPTV thread almost 3 years ago - which is still going strong, BTW - well cared for CRT RPTV on the used market like ebay and craig's list etc. is the deal of the century right now!

b

capturelink

06-20-09, 01:42 PM

I have a PRO 710HD bought back in 2001. Lately I am having blue screen flashes and the set would not stay on for over 20 mins. Googling and stumbled across this thread and great job Bob(imageperfection). I would love to fix my set and let me know if you have any tours planned in the near future. I live in the Santa Clarita area.

Sorry for any redundance - I saw this query last night but was not availalbe, and by the time I had typed this out this morning 2 other replies had occurred, covering some of this. So here's what I wrote:

Screenburn does not happen to the lenticular or fresnel viewscreens, it happens to the CRT faces themselves.

Screenburn is defined as uneven phosphor aging, which is what happens with black sidebars, or gray sidebars with a thick black line of demarcation.

The only way to remedy this is to even up the aging of the phospors. This can be done by showing white sidebars with black in the 4x3 section, or in some other way showing a reverse image of the screenburn itself and aging the more lightly aged phospors to match those that have been aged a lot stronger.

Otherwise the only thing that will cure your situation is replacement of the offending CRTs. Sometimes not all 3 need to be replaced. In your case, if the screenburn is not a changing of the color in these areas but simply a complete lightening/darkening of these areas, all 3 will most likely need to be replaced.

In which case a complete scratch calibration will also have to be performed, from the ground up. I am one of the few calibrators who is also a repair tech as well, and can do both. The regular repair tech will know next to nothing about calibrations, and would not be able to deliver the scratch setup end of the scenario, tho they would be able to install new guns just fine.

I have been warning against screeenburn - and how to prevent it - for the last 10 years minimum. But once it's happened, it's happened, and there are very few avenues left at that point. Dish Network is one of the worst offenders - they have been ruining CRT and plasma tech for years with their 100IRE 100% contrast full white Guide and Menu patterns. I take special measures anytime I go to any of those menus, to keep my overall light level WAY down.

Replacement CRTs can always be obtained via Video Display Corp, you don't need to go to the manufacturer. They can also resurface your phosphor faces, which could be markedly less expensive than actual replacement of the guns. They would still have to be removed, sent away and reinstalled, but there's a good chance the image structure work on your set could then stay the same and not need complete scratch setup.

It could also make available the shimming op for o'scan redux, plus the maximization of the phoshpor face area I presented awhile ago in my Don't Dump thread. You'll find it over there, a few pages back, where I did it on my Mit 73".

If you don't want to go the regunning route, you might find an ID set to yours or an even better size on the used CRT RPTV market and buy it to replace yours. As I have been saying since I started the Don't Dump Your CRT RPTV thread almost 3 years ago - which is still going strong, BTW - well cared for CRT RPTV on the used market like ebay and craig's list etc. is the deal of the century right now!

b

Socio

06-20-09, 04:27 PM

The only way to remedy this is to even up the aging of the phospors. This can be done by showing white sidebars with black in the 4x3 section, or in some other way showing a reverse image of the screenburn itself and aging the more lightly aged phospors to match those that have been aged a lot stronger.

Otherwise the only thing that will cure your situation is replacement of the offending CRTs. Sometimes not all 3 need to be replaced. In your case, if the screenburn is not a changing of the color in these areas but simply a complete lightening/darkening of these areas, all 3 will most likely need to be replaced.

In which case a complete scratch calibration will also have to be performed, from the ground up. I am one of the few calibrators who is also a repair tech as well, and can do both. The regular repair tech will know next to nothing about calibrations, and would not be able to deliver the scratch setup end of the scenario, tho they would be able to install new guns just fine.

Thanks for the reply;

My particular problem is the “ complete lightening/darkening of the areas”, I will try the “showing white sidebars with black in the 4x3 section” trick, if that does not fix it to my satisfaction I will have to replace all three guns. Fortunately that Video Display Corp you mentioned is a lot less expensive than Pioneer would have been if they still sold them.

First things first though, I have a new Power supply board on order so I am going to make sure that fixes the shut down issue before moving on to the burn in issue /guns replacement.

I also saw your post about your shim mod, if I end up replacing the guns which is highly likely, I may attempt something similar.

Seeing your screen shots have made me drool at the possibilities!

Thanks again for your reply and time.

Lil4cyl

06-20-09, 06:58 PM

I just wanted to let everyone out there know my dealings with Mr. Bob. I have a Pioneer Elite PRO610-HD RPTV. I was getting the typical blue flashes on the screen, and upon talking with him, he stated that it could be fixed, and he could do it. I live in NC and he lives in CA. I sent my PS board to him and he repaired it. A few weeks later, I was back up and running, and have not had a single problem with it again. This work was performed last summer, and it still works perfect, and should do so for many years to come.

So if anyone is considering doing business with Mr. Bob, I would highly recommend him. I had an excellent experience with him.

Mr Bob

06-20-09, 08:38 PM

Mr Bob

06-20-09, 08:43 PM

I have a new Power supply board on order so I am going to make sure that fixes the shut down issue before moving on to the burn in issue /guns replacement.

I would recommend you send me the board and get it fully resoldered rather than putting in a new board, which would not have all the exact same parameters of that original board - the board your entire display was set up on, at the factory.

Only having the ORIGINAL board completely restored will get you that.

b

Mr Bob

06-20-09, 08:45 PM

capturelink

06-20-09, 11:12 PM

I would recommend you send me the board and get it fully resoldered rather than putting in a new board, which would not have all the exact same parameters of that original board - the board your entire display was set up on, at the factory.

Only having the ORIGINAL board completely restored will get you that.

b

Mr. Bob,
I am reluctant to sending you the board and wondering if you would come down to Santa Clarita and how much will it cost to repair the board, clean and calibrate if done at the customer location? Thank you and hope you understand.

djones18

06-21-09, 12:14 PM

Well folks, I was ready to relegate my 10 year old Pro-510 to landfill/recycling oblivion or give it away. In April, after 10 years of perfect service, my TV began suffering brightness, blueish fluctuations after the set warmed up. I immediately turned it off and agonized what to do. Was it now time to upgrade to a flat panel? Then I found this thread. Thank you to the original poster who started it.

With members of this forum and Mr Bob's expert advice, I removed my Power Supply board and found a local authorized Pioneer Service Shop, here in Northern Virginia, knowledgeable and willing to re-solder the PS board. I nearly sent the board to Mr Bob who has more than earned the crediblility to repair these boards. He will certainly get my business if problems reoccur.

I provided the shop with detailed written instructions (see below) compiled from a thorough review of all messages in this thread. Of course, they would not guarantee this will fix my problem since they didn't have access to the TV to troubleshoot.

I re-installed the re-soldered PS board and the TV has operated perfectly for two days and about ten total hours. I'm really pleased. I am now looking at cooling fans to dissipate the heat and this seems very doable. This thread has been of immeasurable help and will continue to be if further problems arise. If enough of us can support a trip for Mr. Bob to visit the D.C./Northern Virginia/Maryland area to tune up our TVs, count me in.

Here's what I gave the Service Shop:

From: Name and Contact Information

RE: Pioneer Elite, Pro-510 HD (Ser #.................) Power Supply Board. This board was originally poorly engineered at factory, with thin solder at many points.

Work: Inspect board under good light and magnification and resolder as required.

1. Check entire PS Board for cold solder joints, joints that appear dull, dry, ring fractures, haloed. Remove old solder (if required), reapply new solder.

2. Potential bad/cracked/fractured joints and connectors which require resolder as a minimum:

a. IC202, IC204, E2, E3, E5
b. T101 (the large transformer in the middle of the board)
c. Copper Coils
d. Large Filter Capacitor
e. Check for broken solder joints on connector E3 (especially 12+ supply and GND, Pin 13) and the joints for and around IC204 and IC202 …"cold solder" with possible ring fractures.
f. Check regulator, rectifier, transformer leg joints for cracked solder joints.

3. When complete, please closely inspect for solder bridges and stray solder dots which may cause shorting when power is applied.

Thank you

FYI: The following AVS Forum thread contains 100+ postings on PRO-510-HD PS Board problem which I'm experiencing: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=402397

capturelink

06-21-09, 03:01 PM

Mr Bob

06-21-09, 04:41 PM

As I replied to the email Dave Jones sent me, this fix CANNOT be expected to stay if a point source technique is used. The ONLY technique that will result in a permanent fix is a SHOTGUN technique, where the entire set of conns in the original solder flow op are redone, and with the right solder and the right temp of solder, and by allowing the iron to heat up each joint enough for the newly appied solder to fully join the new to the old solder. That takes extra time, and it has to happen on each joint.

I told him that if his local repair tech took any less then an hour and half on the job itself then not all the joints necessary could have gotten done, if done properly. I also told him to be sure and not show his cards before he asks the tech exactly how long the job took him. That if the tech says "oh around 45 minutes", then his set is in trouble, as it will be seeing spikes again, being shot down the power lines to the rest of the set.

This is seriously typical of most local techs, to do just what's needed to get the board working again, and collect the money. Months or years later, the joints that weren't bad then go bad, and you're back at square one. Of course this MAY not apply to the tech in question.

If his tech DID do all the joints needed - all those that were in the original solder flow op done badly that directly connect anything to anything else in there and have not been resoldered already, which happens with added things like the gray wires - then he's OK. If not, then Dave will be seeing problems again. I see boards all the time in this same condition - the local techs do a fantastic job of the resoldering process on the joints they service, but nowhere near the hundreds of joints on that board NEEDING IT get taken care of.

I resolder what NEEDS to be resoldered, and those boards never go down again.

If you're going to have a local tech resolder your board rather then sending it to me, at least pass on what I have been saying here on this thread for more than 2 years, and get it done right. This thread's been around for more than 4 years! It's all here.

And that's NOT to specify the dozen or so points that the early parts of this thread said needed resoldering!

:rolleyes:

Again, I really don't know how the tech he hired handled it. Perhaps he did everything JUST the way it needs to be done. If so Dave's OK and won't need further servicing of his set for this issue again.

Again, it's all here in this thread. You just gotta read what's necessary to achieve critical mass on what you need to know, based on the tons of info we've learned on this issue in the last 4 years.

The last few pages ought to do it, to bring you up to speed. The first few pages of this thread are VERY old information by now, some of it highly outdated.

b

djones18

06-22-09, 07:12 AM

[QUOTE=djones18;16693339]Well folks, I was ready to relegate my 10 year old Pro-510 to landfill/recycling oblivion or give it away. In April, after 10 years of perfect service, my TV began suffering brightness, blueish fluctuations after the set warmed up. I immediately turned it off and agonized what to do. Was it now time to upgrade to a flat panel? Then I found this thread. Thank you to the original poster who started it.

With members of this forum and Mr Bob's expert advice, I removed my Power Supply board and found a local authorized Pioneer Service Shop, here in Northern Virginia, knowledgeable and willing to re-solder the PS board. I nearly sent the board to Mr Bob who has more than earned the crediblility to repair these boards. He will certainly get my business if problems reoccur.

I provided the shop with detailed written instructions (see below) compiled from a thorough review of all messages in this thread. Of course, they would not guarantee this will fix my problem since they didn't have access to the TV to troubleshoot.

I re-installed the re-soldered PS board and the TV has operated perfectly for two days and about ten total hours. I'm really pleased. I am now looking at cooling fans to dissipate the heat and this seems very doable. This thread has been of immeasurable help and will continue to be if further problems arise. If enough of us can support a trip for Mr. Bob to visit the D.C./Northern Virginia/Maryland area to tune up our TVs, count me in.

Here's what I gave the Service Shop:

From: Name and Contact Information

RE: Pioneer Elite, Pro-510 HD (Ser #.................) Power Supply Board. This board was originally poorly engineered at factory, with thin solder at many points.

Work: Inspect board under good light and magnification and resolder as required.

1. Check entire PS Board for cold solder joints, joints that appear dull, dry, ring fractures, haloed. Remove old solder (if required), reapply new solder.

2. Potential bad/cracked/fractured joints and connectors which require resolder as a minimum:

a. IC202, IC204, E2, E3, E5
b. T101 (the large transformer in the middle of the board)
c. Copper Coils
d. Large Filter Capacitor
e. Check for broken solder joints on connector E3 (especially 12+ supply and GND, Pin 13) and the joints for and around IC204 and IC202 …"cold solder" with possible ring fractures.
f. Check regulator, rectifier, transformer leg joints for cracked solder joints.

3. When complete, please closely inspect for solder bridges and stray solder dots which may cause shorting when power is applied.

Thank you

FYI: The following AVS Forum thread contains 100+ postings on PRO-510-HD PS Board problem which I'm experiencing: [url]

Hi,
Congrats and good to know your tv is fixed and were able to salvage. I was going thru the forum and couple of days back you said the board is on its way to Mr Bob. So what changed your mind to fix it locally. I am also in the same dilemma, so please respond. If you do not mind sharing how much did it end up costing? Thanks in advance
Dusty

Dusty,

Please read Mr Bob's latest post carefully. I agree with his logic. You are correct that I was within a nats breath of sending the board to him. I re-evaluated my overall objectives regarding my TV. You should evaluate your individual situation. My decision was based on a calculated risk, which I accept.

First, my Pro-510 was operating normally (as it had for 10 years) except for the brightness fluctuations. It was likely at the very earliest stage of impending PS board failure. I shutdown the TV immediately. No internal components had failed and no auto shutdown or other symptoms occurred. This was important in deciding further actions.

Second, and this is important, I intend to keep the TV for a max of two more years, then move to a flat panel. I'm willing to accept an effective, perhaps temporary fix at the lowest cost. When my repair costs exceed the market value of the TV, I'd consider a high quality flat panel. The market value of this TV, in operational condition, in my area is under $300...a sad fact. I couldn't give it away with the brightness fluctuations. Believe me, I tried. As I told Mr. Bob in deciding to go local, I'd have difficulty paying more for a single repair on my automobile than the automobile is worth...with no assurance the car wouldn't be in the shop tomorrow for more costly repairs.

Second, I took a calculated risk going with a local shop. They were a long established authorized Pioneer Repair facility. The owner had extensive experience repairing rear projection CRTs. They had expertise in circuitboard repair. Though they had not re-soldered this specific model PS board, I assessed they could do the work with proper instructions. Their cost was well below the market value of the TV. Their re-soldering work has eliminated the symptoms.

So, my decision was risk based. I'm trying to keep the TV operating at a cost acceptable to me with the expectation I will move to a flat panel display within a year or so. Mr Bob, in my opinion, provides the "Gold Standard" for PS board repair. If cost were no object and I intended to keep this TV for at least three more years, I'd seriously consider his services. If my symptoms reoccur within a couple months, Mr Bob may yet get my business.

Dave

Socio

06-24-09, 08:04 PM

I have been having the shut down issue on the 720HD and I was going to send my Power supply board to Mr.Bob but as I was prepping it to ship I noticed one of the chips was lose on one side and would not stay seated.

Thinking that was the problem I decided to solder it back in place, one thing led to another and I ended up spending over three hours resoldering everything, I can't tell you how tedious that is.

I put the board back in fired up the TV and it has been one for a couple hours without shutting down but the picture is still very dark and it getting darker has also been a problem.

I also noticed that the contrast is pegged at 30 and cannot be selected for adjustment.

Does this mean the there is still something wrong with the power supply board or does the video assembly board need to be replaced perhaps?

Thanks

Edit: Actually I cannot adjust the Contrast, Black Level, Color, 3D YC Level, 3D NR Level, Flesh tone and Pure Cinema it just skips over them in the menu screen.

ALYSHA

06-24-09, 08:26 PM

Socio

06-25-09, 09:37 AM

I have been having the shut down issue on the 720HD and I was going to send my Power supply board to Mr.Bob but as I was prepping it to ship I noticed one of the chips was lose on one side and would not stay seated.

Thinking that was the problem I decided to solder it back in place, one thing led to another and I ended up spending over three hours resoldering everything, I can't tell you how tedious that is.

I put the board back in fired up the TV and it has been one for a couple hours without shutting down but the picture is still very dark and it getting darker has also been a problem.

I also noticed that the contrast is pegged at 30 and cannot be selected for adjustment.

Does this mean the there is still something wrong with the power supply board or does the video assembly board need to be replaced perhaps?

Thanks

Edit: Actually I cannot adjust the Contrast, Black Level, Color, 3D YC Level, 3D NR Level, Flesh tone and Pure Cinema it just skips over them in the menu screen.

Perhaps it is still the Power supply board as I noticed there is a LED on the board that does not light up, power turned on or off, if it is supposed to turn on then it has to be the board.

Is that LED supposed to light up at some point?

Edit: Nevermind it appears that LED is a warning light that only lights up if there is a problem so being off is a good thing.

Mr Bob

06-25-09, 11:06 AM

Hi, i have a pioneer 710 that started shutting its self off and while googling i came across this board .i have no pioneer service place in my area plus no way to take the tv for repair .i paid lots of money and was dreading just tossing it .i am wondering if the ps board could be its problem. my husband was like we need to find out if we can repair it but we did'nt know where to go or what to do and even decided we would buy a flat screen but still don't want to toss the 710. how much is it to send to bob ? thanks

Contact me directly - not by pm please - and I'll get you all the info you'll need to send it.

But it must be working properly upon turn-on before you can send it straightaway. If it stays in shutdown then we need to take it to the next level. I'll chat with you about that too.

First and foremost - STOP USING YOUR SET. UNPLUG IT. If it does go on from dead cold properly, like it should, leave it on for no more than 40 seconds, then turn it off and send it to me. DO NOT LET IT WARM UP AGAIN BEFORE BEING FIXED PROPERLY. It's after it warms up for hours of normal viewing, that the deeper damage can occur.

Sometimes when it's shutting off, it just needs to get back to being DEAD cold to start working properly again, at least when cold on turnon. So leaving it off and unplugged for 48 hours - sometimes even 72 hours - may be necessary. Trying it every day in that case will not heat it up, so it's OK to keep trying it during that dead cold time.

If it goes back on properly upon turnon then, that's the absolutely best case scenario. At that point it's VERY affordable to fix. So affordable it's a total no brainer, contact me directly for details. 710s cost over $7000 when new and when properly calibrated render a nice BIG 64" $7000 picture no sweat, even better than they did when new. Even better still, if you get certain mods done.

Anything under $300 to get them totally stabilized again is just a sneeze, to an owner who knows what they really have there, in that set. The 510/610/710s are only midway thru their service life at this point in time. They have many happy years ahead of them, of looking absolutely fabulous. See my recent screenshots on this thread one page back at the top of the page, if you have any questions about that.

By phone or regular email would be best for contacting me, NOT by pm. That goes for anybody else wanting info as well.

Can you guess? I want to keep these babies alive! Yes they ARE that good! And just ACHING to deliver for you -

:)

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

06-25-09, 11:19 AM

I have been having the shut down issue on the 720HD and I was going to send my Power supply board to Mr.Bob but as I was prepping it to ship I noticed one of the chips was lose on one side and would not stay seated.

What chip was this? There are no plug-in ICs on that board, no plug-in components of any kind. The only plug-ins are for the wiring.

If an IC - a chip - was that loose, then you know how bad this problem can get, as they ONLY solder in!

Thinking that was the problem I decided to solder it back in place, one thing led to another and I ended up spending over three hours resoldering everything, I can't tell you how tedious that is.

Yup! You got that right! :D Glad you got it all together without any mistakes staying on your board after the resoldering you did.

I know that because your set works now!

I put the board back in fired up the TV and it has been one for a couple hours without shutting down but the picture is still very dark and it getting darker has also been a problem.

This is a regular thing with this series, it's happening to all Elite and non-Elite Pioneer CRT sets of this vintage that I calibrate these days. It's something I usually handle on location, for no extra charge when doing my basic calibration package. This realignment completely restores the light levels that allow effortless operation when your viewing room is under movie theater light level conditions, the standard for all CRT RPTVs. And that's with Contrast at zero! You will still have the option of cranking it up to 30 if you want to, for a blazing picture!

But I can improve that for you over the phone. On location I always follow up with a complete grayscale calibration tho, so you'll have to be OK with the grayscale you wind up with if we do it over the phone.

The amount of energy the CRTs get has to be realigned. There is a proper alignment sequence/procedure for that, for anybody who wants my help on that. Contact me directly, it's not something I am going to post here, as your set can get royally screwed up and go into shutdown if you do it wrong.

I also noticed that the contrast is pegged at 30 and cannot be selected for adjustment.

Does this mean the there is still something wrong with the power supply board or does the video assembly board need to be replaced perhaps?

Thanks

Edit: Actually I cannot adjust the Contrast, Black Level, Color, 3D YC Level, 3D NR Level, Flesh tone and Pure Cinema it just skips over them in the menu screen.

I suspect there's an option in your User menu that puts everything in that mode. I have seen such things be labeled Monitor Only, that kind of thing.

Check your User menu thoroughly, see if anything like that is going on. That is NOT something that anything on the PS board would cause, that I know of.

b

Socio

06-25-09, 02:22 PM

What chip was this? There are no plug-in ICs on that board, no plug-in components of any kind. The only plug-ins are for the wiring.

If an IC - a chip - was that loose, then you know how bad this problem can get, as they ONLY solder in!

Interestingly enough I took photos of the board before I removed it for reference purposes in case I needed it when I put it back in and got a shot of the chip in question in one of the pictures.

It is kind of blurry but you can actually see it popped up on one side.

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/4899/chip.jpg

This is a regular thing with this series, it's happening to all Elite and non-Elite Pioneer CRT sets of this vintage that I calibrate these days. It's something I usually handle on location, for no extra charge when doing my basic calibration package. This realignment completely restores the light levels that allow effortless operation when your viewing room is under movie theater light level conditions, the standard for all CRT RPTVs. And that's with Contrast at zero! You will still have the option of cranking it up to 30 if you want to, for a blazing picture!

The amount of energy the CRTs get has to be realigned. There is a proper alignment sequence/procedure for that, for anybody who wants my help on that. Contact me directly, it's not something I am going to post here, as your set can get royally screwed up and go into shutdown if you do it wrong.

I would want to replace the CRT's prior to realignment because of the sidebar burn-in, not sure I want to attempt it myself though still thinking on that.

I suspect there's an option in your User menu that puts everything in that mode. I have seen such things be labeled Monitor Only, that kind of thing.

Check your User menu thoroughly, see if anything like that is going on. That is NOT something that anything on the PS board would cause, that I know of.

b

I will look through the manual but do not remember ever setting the contrast to max 30 nor do I recall not being able to access all the settings, will see when I get home.

Mr Bob

06-25-09, 05:48 PM

Interestingly enough I took photos of the board before I removed it for reference purposes in case I needed it when I put it back in and got a shot of the chip in question in one of the pictures.

It is kind of blurry but you can actually see it popped up on one side.

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/4899/chip.jpg

That's the opto coupler, that allows the unit to turn on without any direct connection between the hot side of the 120v wall power, and the cold side of the secondaries of the transformers.

It is NOT a plug in device! It is definitely solder in only, and there are more than one on that board.

I would want to replace the CRT's prior to realignment because of the sidebar burn-in, not sure I want to attempt it myself though still thinking on that.

I'd be glad to totally regun that sucker for you. It would give me a chance to do a ground up calibration on it for you, from absolute scratch.

I will look through the manual but do not remember ever setting the contrast to max 30 nor do I recall not being able to access all the settings, will see when I get home.

Don't know, don't own one. Have not seen this, in all the units I've repaired and calibrated, of this genre. Just look for what I mentioned above, other than that I have no idea. But +30 contrast - full tilt boogie Torch Mode - is NOT healthy for your set! That's for sure. It's designed to be run at ZERO contrast, the midpoint between its plus and minus 30/max and min -

b

Socio

06-25-09, 07:01 PM

Don't know, don't own one. Have not seen this, in all the units I've repaired and calibrated, of this genre. Just look for what I mentioned above, other than that I have no idea. But +30 contrast - full tilt boogie Torch Mode - is NOT healthy for your set! That's for sure. It's designed to be run at ZERO contrast, the midpoint between its plus and minus 30/max and min -

b

I dug out my manual and figured it out, it was the RLS (Room Light Sensor), it was on LVL2 which does not allow some settings like contrast to be adjusted, or set adjustments to have any affect thus even though it was set at 30 it did nothing.

Turning off RLS made the image brighter, even at zero, so the sensor must be malfunctioning, I will just leave it off, and hide the remote.

PRO710HD

06-26-09, 04:25 PM

Mr Bob

06-26-09, 05:10 PM

Mr Bob.

I had previously resoldered certain areas to fix my power supply board. Worked for about 2 months then came back.

Took board out again and resoldered every connection I could find. It's worked flawlessly for about 1 year, then it just popped and shut down twice over the last day. It still powers up when cooled off so no major problems downstream.

ADVICE Mr Bob. Now that I have already soldered everything, how else can I fix the board? Can I get a new board from Pioneer to just swap it out? I mean how can I fix the original board when I've already resoldered everything. It'd be impossible to find out where there might be a short right? And I'm guessing there isn't a short because it probably wouldn't have worked flawlessly for a year right?

:confused:

I'd check it for possible solder bridges. Could be you have one that doesn't affect things too badly, but eventually causes problems. There is no track record on this when there are literally hundreds of conns on that board, some of them super tiny.

Did you get under the white caulking? Did you heat up the solder on that grounding screw and tighten it while the solder was still molten? Was your solder at the right temp, so it would blob up again just right on each point, without any trails?

Boards I resolder don't have these problems later. If you want to send it to me I can probably cut you some slack on what it normally takes to put it thru the paces I put them thru, over here, since you've done lots of work on it already.

b

PRO710HD

06-27-09, 11:48 AM

Mr. BOB

PM sent

Mr Bob

06-27-09, 09:12 PM

Mr. BOB

PM sent

People, please don't pm me! I have contact info in my sig. My pm box is next to overflowing, and takes very valuable time to prune.

Please contact me directly, not by pm.

David (PRO710HD), I'm looking forward to proceeding on the results of our phone call this afternoon -

b

kudzuatl

06-29-09, 10:39 AM

I just wanted to comment on how helpful Mr Bob was when we spoke last week. The convergence was off on my PRO-510HD and the black levels were not what they should be. He walked me through cleaning the optics and adjusting the convergence through the service menu. The set looks great now.

Thanks Bob!

djones18

06-30-09, 09:42 AM

I keep finding ways to extend the life of my 10yr old Pro-510 TV I was ready to give away two months ago. In addition to Power Supply Board resoldering, I've added cooling fans. I'm now considering doing a telephone consult with Mr. Bob to rein in the overscan (if possible) and finicky convergence near the screen edges. These great TVs are just hard to part with.

I've installed a pair of small 120mm, quiet cooling fans in my Pro-510. They mount on the TV's bottom removable fiberboard panel (not the top panel which holds the mirror). They are mounted inside the cabinet, above the Power Supply Board and do a nice job moving air out of the cabinet and keeping the PS Board temperature down. In an absolutely silent room, I can hear them barely whirring from about two-three feet away...beyond that nothing. At any TV volume setting, they are masked completely.

I found these pre-built and pre-wired from a reliable eBay seller. We communicated extensively pre-sale to ensure they would work. He includes all wiring, detailed installation instructions and a 12v power adapter which allows adjustment of fan speed. The power adapter is connected to the switched outlet on my A/V reciever. The power adapter has no on-off switch and simply starts the fans when power is applied. It does have a voltage control for adjusting fan speed. In my Home Theater configuration, the A/V receiver is always on when the TV is on. As an option, a thermostat can be added to activate the fans at preset temperatures inside the cabinet.

Installation took about one and half hours which included removing and re-installing the fiberboard panel. I cut a small rectanguler shaped piece out of the back panel to accomodate the fans. A template is provided to make this easy. I used a small powered jigsaw. The fans can be mounted inside or outside the cabinet. They can be configured to extract air from the cabinet or blow air into the cabinet. As mentioned, I chose to extract air outward from the inside.

All-in-all a fairly simple solution to improving the air flow to the PS Board. PM me for more details. Once again, this thread has been indispensable to keeping my Pro510 alive.

shutyertrap

06-30-09, 11:35 AM

Seeing as how the optics on my 510 have NEVER been cleaned, and the fact I have zero dollars towards getting Mr Bob down to my place, I'm wondering how intense of a DIY job it is.

I'm tech savy enough to follow well given instructions, but also paranoid of screwing things up! I work in the film industry as a camera assistant, so I know how to be delicate around expensive equipment like lense optics. It's the talk of getting at more than the surfact optics that has me wondering if this is a minefield or not. Anyway, just wondering the difficulty level, and if there is a page within this thread (or anyone willing to give me there own) that has step by step instruction. I don't even know how to crack open the TV to get at 'em, so that's where I'm at.

Oh, and I agree that this thread is invaluable. It's caused a whole set of worries with me (my ps board has not acted up, and I'm now afraid of if it will), but it's also made me realize my tv can last for many years to come.

Mr Bob

06-30-09, 04:31 PM

I don't have to be on location to be helpful on optics cleaning stem to stern on ALL CRT RPTVs.

Just contact me, we'll do something by phone. It's not rocket science, but it IS fraught with potential landmines. Best you do it with an experienced person on the phone with you. That's how the last few have gone over here at this end of the phone, and with marvelous results -

b

bweissman

06-30-09, 04:51 PM

I've installed a pair of small 120mm, quiet cooling fans in my Pro-510. They mount on the TV's bottom removable fiberboard panel (not the top panel which holds the mirror). They are mounted inside the cabinet, above the Power Supply Board and do a nice job moving air out of the cabinet and keeping the PS Board temperature down.I'm curious why you felt you needed fans. Is your 510 shutting down due to thermal overload?

To be counterpoint to your point, I've taken almost the opposite approach with my 610. I've covered over every light-leaking hole with Duvetyne or Duvetape. So not only is my picture a little blacker, but I get virtually no dust at all inside the cabinet. And I've never had an overheat. With extra fans, don't you find that you're pulling in lots of dust?

bweissman

06-30-09, 05:55 PM

Seeing as how the optics on my 510 have NEVER been cleaned, and the fact I have zero dollars towards getting Mr Bob down to my place, I'm wondering how intense of a DIY job it is. ... I don't even know how to crack open the TV to get at 'em, so that's where I'm at.It's not intense, but if you've never done it before, cracking open the TV is probably the biggest hurdle. It's kind of intimidating because it requires some brute force to pull off some parts which are held in with some powerful clips.

The good news is you don't have to remove the screen completely; you slide it side to side. The caveat is there are some lurking screw heads which will scratch your screen if you don't remove them first. Oh, BTW, what you don't do is go in through the back. Those nonstandard screws that hold the mirror case are there to discourage you from doing so.

The service manual has some diagrams showing the steps to removing all the front bits and sliding the screen side to side. If you're determined to DIY without any help, at least get hold of the service manual. In addition to optics cleaning, you will want to perform both manual and electronic focusing while you've got the TV open. The SM illustrates those procedures as well. What it does not illustrate is removing the lens assemblies to clean the deep optics. But if you stick your head in there, you'll find the lenses are held on with 4 screws each and are easily removed.

To make a long story short (oops, too late), this is certainly DIY-able if you're careful. But maybe not the first time. There's a lot to be said for experience. Back when my 610 was new, I had Mr Bob come over for its first tweaking, even though I already had the service manual. I watched and learned, and now I can do it all myself (sorry, Bob).

shutyertrap

07-01-09, 12:27 PM

Thanks for the replies, guys. I think I will get in touch with Mr Bob soon, but first I do wanna look at the service manual. Just did a quick search online for one, but couldn't find it for download without paying a nominal fee. I'll do some deeper searching later. Basically I wanna see what I'm getting myself into before bugging Mr Bob.

And yeah, I'm intimidated about removing even my screen shield just because I remember what it took for the guys to install it! Oh well, watching the last Harry Potter last night and not being able to see so much detail in the blacks really has made me wanna clean this thing. After all, it's not like the picture is gonna magically clean up on it's own.

Mr Bob

07-01-09, 12:41 PM

Back when my 610 was new, I had Mr Bob come over for its first tweaking, even though I already had the service manual. I watched and learned, and now I can do it all myself (sorry, Bob).

My ideal student! I get covered the first time around, he takes over from there!

I am happy to demo whatever I do for whoever is listening and wants to take care of me for it, then take it from there. I even slow down to explain things when the student in my owner has appeared. There will always be ops not doable by the consumer, that may need special equipment and/or training. And owners who just don't have the time to do it themselves, because of family, career, or both!

Glad to see your dedication to your set! It's gonna be spiriting you to a distant galaxy far far away, for years to come!

:cool:

b

djones18

07-01-09, 01:25 PM

I'm curious why you felt you needed fans. Is your 510 shutting down due to thermal overload?

To be counterpoint to your point, I've taken almost the opposite approach with my 610. I've covered over every light-leaking hole with Duvetyne or Duvetape. So not only is my picture a little blacker, but I get virtually no dust at all inside the cabinet. And I've never had an overheat. With extra fans, don't you find that you're pulling in lots of dust?

Good questions. My goal is to extend the life of my 10yr old TV. No, my TV is not shutting down due to thermal overload. However, the Power Supply Board, a heat producer, has displayed the initial effects of longterm thermal variations or thermal expansion and shrinkage on IC solder joints. My goal is to reduce this effect. Dust is secondary for me, can be managed, and has not been shown to cause IC board failures in these TVs.

Thermal management to improve longterm reliability is my issue, to improve the heat transfer between the PS board and the ambient air by increasing airflow across the board. IC chips operating at higher temperatures are more likely to fail than ICs operating at cooler temperatures. Additionally, solder joints are affected by thermal cycling, i.e., repeated heating and cooling.

Pioneer designers placed the PS board vertically, with heat sinks, cabinet vent holes, and positioned in the cabinet to take best advantage of convective cooling. All done to maintain an acceptable operating temperature range over the life of the board. What they couldn't predict was their PS board manufacturing soldering process would negatively affect the longterm reliability of these boards. This thread has enough anecdotal evidence to substantiate this.

I now believe a combination of preventive maintenance (as thoroughly outlined by Mr Bob and others throughout this thread), immediate response to potential failure symptoms, and modifications to dissipate the heat produced by the PS board can prolong the life of the PS boards and the TV.

If your modifications have covered vent holes on the bottom or back panel of your TV I believe you are quite fortunate in not having thermal related problems.

bweissman

07-01-09, 05:27 PM

If your modifications have covered vent holes on the bottom or back panel of your TV I believe you are quite fortunate in not having thermal related problems.I was unclear, sorry. I only covered holes which were visibly leaking light, and I did that from inside the projection box (not on the back). And, yes, I did indeed experience the PS board solder issue, but only after owning the TV for 8 or 9 years, so I don't think anything I did exacerbated it.

This thread goes back to 2004! So I thought I wasn't going to get bit by the solder issue... until I was, just a couple months ago.

My concerns with dust are (a) sucking it into the projection area and onto the guns & mirror and (b) depositing it on heat sinks and reducing their efficiency. I have to vacuum out my computer tower every year from all the dust that gets pulled in by its fan, or it starts to overheat.

Good luck with your fan mod. You'll have to report back in 6 months or a year and let us know how it worked out.

djones18

07-02-09, 06:15 AM

I was unclear, sorry. I only covered holes which were visibly leaking light, and I did that from inside the projection box (not on the back). And, yes, I did indeed experience the PS board solder issue, but only after owning the TV for 8 or 9 years, so I don't think anything I did exacerbated it.

This thread goes back to 2004! So I thought I wasn't going to get bit by the solder issue... until I was, just a couple months ago.

My concerns with dust are (a) sucking it into the projection area and onto the guns & mirror and (b) depositing it on heat sinks and reducing their efficiency. I have to vacuum out my computer tower every year from all the dust that gets pulled in by its fan, or it starts to overheat.

Good luck with your fan mod. You'll have to report back in 6 months or a year and let us know how it worked out.

Glad to hear you're not covering vent holes. I did not find this thread until April, 2009, when my PS board symptoms began and I initiated a concerted search for a fix. Though 10yrs old, my Pro-510 got very light use in a climate controlled environment and I suspect that's why the failure prone PS board lasted so long before exhibiting problems.

Your concerns regarding dust buildup in the projection area are well documented and regular optics cleaning is proving effective, especially on sets several years old.

Dust acts as an insulator on IC surfaces and these ICs can suffer overheating as a result. The amount of dust accumulation required to cause this would have to be substantial. I believe my efforts to increase cooling effectiveness across the PS board surface to prolong its operating life outweigh the potential dust effects. I'll be checking every few months and mitigating as required. I'll let you know how it works.

Mr Bob

07-02-09, 08:40 PM

Good questions. My goal is to extend the life of my 10yr old TV. No, my TV is not shutting down due to thermal overload. However, the Power Supply Board, a heat producer, has displayed the initial effects of longterm thermal variations or thermal expansion and shrinkage on IC solder joints. My goal is to reduce this effect. Dust is secondary for me, can be managed, and has not been shown to cause IC board failures in these TVs.

Thermal management to improve longterm reliability is my issue, to improve the heat transfer between the PS board and the ambient air by increasing airflow across the board. IC chips operating at higher temperatures are more likely to fail than ICs operating at cooler temperatures. Additionally, solder joints are affected by thermal cycling, i.e., repeated heating and cooling.

Pioneer designers placed the PS board vertically, with heat sinks, cabinet vent holes, and positioned in the cabinet to take best advantage of convective cooling. All done to maintain an acceptable operating temperature range over the life of the board. What they couldn't predict was their PS board manufacturing soldering process would negatively affect the longterm reliability of these boards. This thread has enough anecdotal evidence to substantiate this.

I now believe a combination of preventive maintenance (as thoroughly outlined by Mr Bob and others throughout this thread), immediate response to potential failure symptoms, and modifications to dissipate the heat produced by the PS board can prolong the life of the PS boards and the TV.

If your modifications have covered vent holes on the bottom or back panel of your TV I believe you are quite fortunate in not having thermal related problems.

It's too late for preventive design, here. Every minute you are running your set you are playing Russian Roullete with it, now that the effects of the solder joint breakdown have begun to show up.

You must turn it off NOW and keep it unplugged until thoroughly fixed. DON'T let it warm up again to cruising temp in this condition. At any time if you do, your set may be minutes to seconds away from a huge spike caused by the now bad solder joints that will shut your set down and be the one that takes your set down hard, possibly even totalling it.

I get that you want to protect your set with precautions, but again it's too late for that now. All those things should be done AFTER you have made sure that board has been resoldered, and to the heavy duty, thorough degree it needs to be. Those precautions would have needed to be done years ago, to adequately protect your set from what it's experiencing now.

b

sailakfan

07-11-09, 07:13 PM

I have sent both my boards to Mr.Bob and since I had been travelling he kept them until I gave him the okay to send them back to me. I received both the boards and the job he did on both the boards are exceptional. If you intend to keep the set for a while I advice to send your boards without any second thoughts to Mr.Bob.

In 2005, while under warranty the set experienced the classic PS board issue. The person who came to fix it resoldered some joints but after what Mr.Bob did to them now, the difference is day and night. I wish I had not gone through my warranty and sent them to Mr.Bob in first place.

Also I had double boxed the boards worrying about damaged by the gorillas. I did a so so job in the inside box packing, but the way Mr.Bob had packed the inside box was so professional and he totally eliminated the outside box and saved some money on shipping for me.

I just getting caught up and going to put them back right after this. Also I am going to get the deeper cleaning over the phone and eagerly waiting to meet him in the future.

ANYBODY HAVING SECOND THOUGHTS ABOUT SENDING THE BOARDS TO MR.BOB PLEASE STOP THINKING AND SEND THE BOARDS TO HIM.

From my experience, he is a true image perfectionist and a master.

PS - I am in Dallas, so anybody interested in bringing Mr.Bob please respond.

Mr Bob

07-15-09, 12:05 PM

Bala - sailakfan - has been caught between a rock and a hard place on his set. The symptoms for what was wrong with his set kept disappearing and then reappearing later, meaning he has now gotten his conv bd ICs replaced and his PS board resoldered - both by me - and the set worked for a few seconds then started blowing fuses again and showing bad convergence. Which can be caused by things other than the IC replacement, or that IC replacement could be suspect, in that there's always the possibility of bad ICs being sold to me. I have no doublecheck where I do the work as I don't own one of your sets - your sets are my doublecheck, out there.

Currently the indicators show he now needs a new deflection board, at a cost of around $350 additional. We have both been disappointed in these results, :( but still game for fixing the set.

I was going to try to use my servicer's discount at Pioneer to enable him to get that board at a reduced rate.

Then he looked around and found an excellently taken care of PRO 730 for $500! I told him to jump on that sucker before anybody else found out about it! He did and was even able to get it for $300! He doesn't have it yet but will be picking it up soon.

So his 2 boards worked on by me are available. He is totally blitzed about being able to get a bigger set that's 2 years younger than his, for less than he paid me! Don't blame him...

What you need to know is that I will stand behind the work I did on those boards for any of you who buy them from him now that he has an even better and bigger set, the same way I woulda stood by him for his own set. So buy them with confidence from him - if there are any problems with them - like board breakage or anything else - I'll make sure everything is done on those boards that I would do for anyone who has me work on them. I don't suspect there will be, but I will stand behind them nonetheless, however it shakes down.

I have never seen anything but complete compatibility across all models of that model year, the x10 series, on those boards.

And the board breakage has dramatically ceased! Good job in packing things effectively, people!

He would also still like to get me to Dallas to calibrate whatever set he winds up with, and I would still love to go back again and be able to visit some very special friends of mine there. So form a cal tour with him and I'm there!

;)

b

Socio

07-15-09, 02:12 PM

Otherwise the only thing that will cure your situation is replacement of the offending CRTs. Sometimes not all 3 need to be replaced. In your case, if the screenburn is not a changing of the color in these areas but simply a complete lightening/darkening of these areas, all 3 will most likely need to be replaced.

I want to replace the CRT's, I was told the red gun usually does not need to be replaced, just the blue and green. However in my case the burned in square area between the two sidebars does have a reddish grainy tint to it.

Is that an indicator that the red should be replaced as well?

Edit:Never mind I figured out how to tell; I took the front screen off and covered the blue and green, placed the screen back up and no burn in image, covered the red and green and slight burn in and covered the red and blue, bad burn in so I need to just replace the green and blue.

Mr Bob

07-16-09, 03:11 AM

You got it. Red is usually exceptionally unburnt compared to the other 2, and your testing is sound, I'd agree that the other 2 are what needs it and not the red -

b

Socio

07-16-09, 02:59 PM

You got it. Red is usually exceptionally unburnt compared to the other 2, and your testing is sound, I'd agree that the other 2 are what needs it and not the red -

b

Excellent, thanks!

I went to order them from video display corp and they said they are bare tubes and I would need to rebuild them and add fluid etc… So I am opting to just send them mine it does not cost any different and they would do the hardware change out for me.

Just to make sure I am sending everything needed I send the whole blue and green CRT assembly correct?

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/203/crt.jpg

Thanks!

Mr Bob

07-17-09, 10:47 AM

Right.

Pack them WELL. Don't take any chances, the necks are extremely vulnerable. Lots of properly placed foam rubber might be a great idea, and double boxing them as well.

Also when you get them back, be VERY careful about cleaning the coolant covers, which comprise the primary lens once back in place.

In Vegas a few years ago on a Hitachi cal I was doing, I saw that set of guns irretreiveably scarred when the installing tech who had replaced all 3 the year before, evidently took a dry towel to each of them and squeezed it in there and turned it back and forth, in a misguided attempt to clean them during installation.

This has the same significance that doing the "deeper optics" cleaning wrong would have.

The garish concentric circles gouged into the face of the coolant covers never went away. They allowed a decent picture thru, but created a "wash" in the blacks that raised the black floor to way over what it was supposed to be.

The damage was permanent. It brought the entire calibration to a standstill until we could figure out what to do. We opted for just doing color decoding and grayscale work, and let it go at that.

He had those guns replaced AGAIN under his ESP, just like he had had done the year before. One of these days hopefully he'll have me complete the process we TRIED to do at the time...

b

ErickG

07-22-09, 11:36 AM

Mr Bob

07-23-09, 05:38 AM

I fix this problem every day, at a price that's been shown to be emminently reasonable to dozens of owners so far, most of them from this thread. The last few pages tell the story, you really don't have to read this thread from its beginning, where the information is very outdated by now.

Contact me directly please, not by pm.

b

djones18

07-23-09, 09:16 AM

Hi
Im so happy i found this thread.
I bought a Pioneer Elite 510HD many many years ago and only a few months ago it started doing the blue flash pop shutdown. Does anyone in the Maryland area know of someone who has fixed this problem?

Thanks

Erick

I've successfully used an authorized Pioneer repair facility in the Falls Church, Virginia, area to cure the same problem with my HD510 at a reasonable price. I caught the problem early, immediately stopped using the TV, and had no other problems prior to this. I also considered using Mr Bob's services. What action you take ought to depend on how long you intend to keep this TV and what other problems it may have.

Mr Bob, out in California, is a recognized expert and trusted source for your repair. I would search this thread using his name for more info. He will require you remove your Power Supply Board (fairly straight forward but make sure you carefully read instructions on this thread before proceeding) and send it to him. You will pay more than this TV's current retail value (a sad fact) in the Baltimore/Washington D.C. area for his service though it may be worth it if you intend to keep this TV over the longterm and it has no other problems. Mr Bob can also help you get the best performance out of this TV with other services, including telephone support.

PM me if you want more info on the Falls Church, Virginia, repair facility.

Tony V.

07-23-09, 10:48 AM

I have a rescued Pro-710 that was not powering up and displaying red leds on the power and deflection boards. I decided I wasn't going to hurt it much if I went over the defl. board with the soldering iron. So I did.

IT'S ALIVE!

I went over everything I felt comfortable getting the soldering iron on / around.
Reinstalled the board and it powered up nicely. No blue flash or shutoff problems after a couple of hours of service.

I have, however a red vertical stripe roughly in the middle of the screen. I checked the archive threads for any similar situation but nobody seems to have had that problem. The stripe is clearly seen for about 12 inches from the top of the screen and then it fades, but I still know it is there.

I do not have the remote for this set so I would like to know if this is something that will go away when I eventually get the remote and realign the crts? Or do I have another problem that needs attention?

Mr Bob

07-23-09, 12:10 PM

If it's actually a magenta vertical stripe and is there most on white or gray material but all the time despite what the content is - but is missing on all red or all blue material - sounds like you have a scar on the green CRT. Which is permanent. It's a turn-off scar.

You may also have the same scar on the green and blue guns, leaving only the red visible on white or gray material. That would require that 2 guns be dealt with.

Best way to check is to remove your viewscreen with a white pattern up there, and look directly into each lens. With the set off you'll see the scar with a strong flashlight if it's there.

This can happen when the beam loses horizontal sweep and all of a sudden is hundreds of times more powerful than it should be. A vertical stripe of vaporized phosphors that's strong and then fades away is what happens on turn-off if the turn-off blanking sys fails, which sounds like it did in this case. That's all involving the deflection board. Did this happen only after you serviced it? Did it have any hiccups in its operation after your work, before it came back to being rock solid again? Perhaps something you did disabled the turn-off blanking circuit?

Regunning - or resurfacing - your green CRT, or whatever CRT has that scar - is the only way around this issue if that's the case.

Video Display Corp is your answer in both cases, if so. They sell whatever gun you'll need plus they resurface yours if you send it to them. Keeping your gun in there makes recalibration a lot simpler than starting from scratch with a completely new gun. Or 2 or 3...

I was hoping that the deflection board could be saved by the resoldering process like the PS bd can, but after hearing this I think I'll keep replacing them instead, too much is riding on it...

:p

Let us know what you find -

b

Tony V.

07-23-09, 12:42 PM

Yes I would say it is a magenta stripe. As for the previous condition, I would not know. I did buy this as a non-working set for very little coin.
I will have to take the screen off and look for which CRT is scarred. Bleah.
Oh well, I am still going to try and see about repairing it. You wouldn't junk a Ferrari cause it needed just a little work would you?
Thanks Mr. Bob.

Edit- I used an overscan test pattern and looked at the CRTs individually and bingo, green CRT has the line showing the other two did not. However, with a strong flashlight and the set off, I did see scars on the blue and very lightly on the red. :(

Mr Bob

07-23-09, 02:19 PM

I think it's safe to say that risking resoldering the defl bd is NOT on the agenda for this thread, and after this, not for this tech either! I would not want to take that chance myself.

As I said before, too much is riding on it. Best to have a fully checked out/tested defl bd from Pioneer.

The PS board can't cause these kinds of problems because it's WAY far away from the blanking and sweep circuits, which are way downline from the PS bd. And the sweep circuits with their protection circuits. Those circuits are there to protect the CRTs from this kind of damage. If the protection circuits fail, the CRTs get damaged irrevocably, within seconds or in some cases instantly.

The deflection bd is where all that gets created, and I really don't think we should take any chances with them, as the CRTs and the beam deflector coils around them are DIRECTLY fed by those circuits, and thus completely vulnerable to them. One little scar on a CRT because of lack of h or v sweep or lack of blanking upon turn-off, and game over for that CRT.

b

Tony V.

07-23-09, 06:18 PM

Somebody had to try it :)

Runkster

07-24-09, 03:40 PM

After reading the first 12 pages of this post I tried the resolder of the low power board. It corrected the blue flash problem and the picture looks comparable to as it did when new.

Being an obsessionist I re-soldered all connections as they all looked dull gray and I didn't want to end up taking it out a second time. After verifying the fix worked and the blue flashes were gone I cleaned the lenses/mirror/screen with a microfiber cloth gently. What a difference!

Now to set the convergence..cant wait to get this baby back into shape..any body have the default settings for what the advanced/convergence/geometry is set at from the factory? I would like to start with the original settings. (Messed around with them years ago when I thought the picture started to deteriorate and didn't write them down:confused:) I do have all of the service manuals but did not see mention of the default/factory settings.

I have always been complemented on how great the picture looked on this TV and I am glad it is still working after almost 10 years.

Mr Bob

07-24-09, 04:30 PM

My only comment would be that I would not recommend using micorfibre cloths in this application. Optics cleaning can be hazardous to your optics, and NO dry method is OK, IMHO.

Using microfibre cloths lightly for dusting purposes AFTER all the dangerous grit has been removed properly would be fine, but not as PART OF the cleaning process.

And if you didn't do the deeper optics cleaning - meaning at the bottoms of the lens barrels and the CRT coolant covers of the CRTs themselves - then more than half of your cleaning job has still not been done. ALL CRT RPTVs of your set's vintage have optics that are horribly filty by now because of the HV inherent in CRT use - causing bleariness, haziness and lack of detail and dimension in dark areas. There's no getting around it, it's inherent in the design. See my website for more details.

But I'm glad you like your set! It definitely has HUGE potential!

;)

b

Mr Bob

07-26-09, 02:24 PM

Bala - sailakfan - is forming a cal tour for Dallas and surrounding areas, and is looking for fellow rabid CRT triple gun participants (to match their rabid CRT triple gun calibrator...:rolleyes:)

We just spent a long time yesterday transferring data I have from owners who have inquired over the last year and a half, and we were still going strong at 25 owners! Not all will still be interested in calibration - not all were even in touch with me over calibration - but hopefully a strong market share of that 25 will.

Contact both him and me for getting on board, use email and phone for me, NOT pm please -

b

jlvollmer

07-27-09, 12:21 AM

My Pioneer is not an Elite but it is a rear projection HD 52" set. I have read most of this thread and my set exhibited the same screen flashes, popping sounds that many others have experienced.

Well, the set finally would not turn on at all anymore. And we just let it sit for about a year until I found this thread.

I am hear to say that desoldering, resoldering the power board actually works. I didn't have high hopes for the process as I have never soldered before. I read a few tutorials and watched some you tube videos on soldering and decided I didn't have anything to lose. But it is incredible process. I am quite proud of myself. If I can do it, you can too. The picture looks better than it did before. The screen is brighter, the colors are brighter, it looks amazing. And my family thinks I am a genius.

Mr Bob

07-27-09, 04:46 PM

Hope you soldered virtually ALL of the PS board, and not just the joints that are causing problems right now. Because if so, more joints will go bad in the future, ones that are perfectly fine right now. ALL the joints involved in the original solder flow op need attention by now.

Great that you have your set up and running again! Now learn about the cleaning and calibration process and get her performance REALLY maxed out!

;)

b

630-fusion

07-30-09, 02:27 PM

I have a Pioneer Pro-510hd TV. When I acquired this TV last winter and it was broken (start up with a blank screen, red light). This is a spare TV (science project) that I want to use with VGA connection with my HTPC. :)

First thing I did was clean the optics according to Bobs description. I used Sprayway Glass Cleaner purchased from Ace Hardware. The lens had about 1/8 inch of dust on them. I only cleaned the tops of the lens not deeper inside.

Symptoms
1.) The main power button stays red and does not turn green at all.
2.) There is a clicking noise (relays) from the back of the TV when you try to start it.
3.) The red light is lit on the power supply but not on the other boards I tested in the dark.

Research (thanks Bob and Service Manual)
1.) Entire Power Supply Needs Soldering (something like 200 small connections).
2.) The power supply will go into protection mode if all the voltages do not start up in the power proper amounts. A short will put the TV into protection mode.
3.) When the TV is on do not leave it on for more than 1 minute.
4.) The TV has five fuses that need to be verified for connectivity with a meter.

Tools (thanks dave610)
1.) Temperature controlled soldering iron
2.) Radio Shack desoldering wic
3.) Radio Shack solder 60/40 rosin core .50 diameter
3.) Magnifying Glass (needs to be pretty strong)
4.) Radio Shack battery tester meter
5.) Magnetic Phillips Screwdriver
6.) Pioneer Service Manual Arp3051

Environment
1.) Need to have good lighting to doubled check the connections after soldering

Tasks
1.) Remove the Power Supply supply
2.) Resolder/Refresh every connection on the power supply (except for the heatsinks).
3.) Inspect all the connections with the magnifying glass look for gray solder points. All connections should be bright and silvery. Make sure all the connections are separate and not stuck together. This can is a pain they are really close together.
4.) Check the fuses for connectivity.

Thoughts
1.) Lots of dull gray connections on the power supply board. Soldering Iron needs to be cleaned frequently.
2.) The connections around the edge of the board are very small and need special attention. Of course, they are in really bad shape.
3.) The transformer connections are poor quality on some of the legs.
4.) The screw needs to be resoldered with a higher temperature.
5.) Solder the connections under the two wires remove some have white thermal caulk on them.
6.) Vertical Fuse FU202 6.3a 125v is blown it looks fine but the meter shows it's toast :confused:

Solution (Back from the dead) :)
1.) Replace fuse FU202 6.3a 125v slow blow
2.) Reinstall the resoldered power supply back into the TV.
3.) Connect HDTV TV tuner up for a test.
4.) Power up and green light appears.
5.) Test TV for 6 hours during HDTV baseball game. Picture looks good no obvious problems.

Conclusion
It took me a long time a lot reading to fix this problem. The TV is complicated and the service manual lacks information, it's somewhat vague for troubleshooting. Professionally computers are my thing not electronics. I acquired the ability to solder with the project. I think the main issue was to have the right tools. Posts from Dave610 (thanks) convinced me that the soldering iron needs to be temperature controlled. If your are cleaning the iron a lot you need to know the temperature of the iron tip it's important. It was hard to find the correct fuses 6.3a 125v slow blow. Because I wanted an exact replacement and was not sure of the scope of the problem. I ordered them from Hong Kong and had to buy 100 so I have 99 spare inexpensive ones if anyone needs one I can help.

Thanks to all in this forum!!!

Mr Bob

07-30-09, 04:00 PM

So glad you could prevail. But 1 hitch, which could cause problems down the road -

THERE ARE NO SLO-BLO FUSES USED IN THIS UNIT.

Fast blow only. The 6.3A is a fast blow, not a slow blow.

If you resoldered everything I am sure you're back to solid ops again, and if nothing ever happens again perhaps the fact that you put in a slo-blow where a fast blow is supposed to be will never cause a problem.

But are you willing to take that chance? I wouldn't. I'd find a GMA F type fast blow and put it in there instead of that slo-blo you've got in there. Radio Shack at least has the 6.0A fast blow GMA's, which are perfectly fine to use in place of the 6.3's.

Great repair job tho!

;)

b

630-fusion

07-30-09, 08:01 PM

Bob

Thanks for the tip, I'll order some fast blow fuses. Really pleased :) to
have it working properly.

Mr Bob

07-31-09, 02:30 AM

Yah, mon!!!

;)

b

Gib

07-31-09, 11:58 AM

I have the 510HD. I definitely have the power board cold solder problem exhibited by the brightness changing back and forth between normal and overly bright. It has been like this for 3 years probably (although not used for 1.5 years while in Australia).

I am reluctant to get the power board fixed because I have another problem that hopefully Bob or another member can identify. One day, of course the night before we were hosting a Superbowl party 4 years ago, I started fine tuning the HD convergence and geometry. When I entered the service menu something must have gone bad on a board because the geometry went way out of wack. Vertical lines had extreme bowing of several inches. All of my efforts to correct it through the convergence adjustments left it somewhat watchable, but vertical lines are still not really straight - they sort of zig zag slightly and still bend in at the top. I also had to go to excessive overscan at the top because there was no way to converge and straighten the lines at the top of the screen.

Do you have a good idea what is causing the geometry/convergence problems? Do you think it is issues with the convergence board or other board and is it likely to be repairable for a reasonable price?

P.S. - I am aware of all of the warnings about not using the set with the PB problem. It has been like this for 3 years - I guess I am really puching my luck...

Thanks,
Gil

Mr Bob

07-31-09, 12:11 PM

What you are describing is when there is NO convergence correction at play. Somehow your conv circ got taken off line. Either by a blown fuse or blown ICs, whatever. There are regulators on the PS bd that feed the conv circ, so one of them may have fallen prey to the cold solder joints in that area of the board. If the plus voltage rail goes off line while the minus rail stays where it should or vice versa, that throws everything off kilter massively, if not blowing a fuse and shutting down the unit as well.

I would get the PS bd completely remedied first and see if that solves the problem. You gotta do that anyway, you gotta stop playing Russian Roulette with the damn thing!

:eek:

If not I would then replace the conv ICs and start over. Hope you kept your original register values, at least on the coarse registers, so you can get back to where you were before. If not I am one of the few calibrators who can get you back where you started and then some.

If that does it but now you're out in the opposing directions on all counts/registers because of your current corrections and you left yourself no bread crumbs trail back, there may be a conv only reset in the Factory 2 sm, which comes up when you hit the sm button behind the panel a second time. I have heard of such a thing, but have never used it.

What you have done so far is to push your point values way out of their ideal parameters, and those parameters are NOT midpoint! Not on a Pioneer. Tried that once, was eternally grateful to myself for having jotted down each and every point value before changing it! That would explain the jaggies you now see.

b

Gib

07-31-09, 12:15 PM

Oh, by the way, I believe the convergence/geometry problems only occur for HD signals not 480i. Not sure if that helps narrow down the cause.

Gil

Mr Bob

07-31-09, 12:24 PM

That doesn't figure. The conv circ affects both at all times. Only the separate memory banks are different. Perhaps they use separate eeproms and one of them gave up the ghost. Have never seen that, but never say never...

:confused:

b

jlvollmer

08-08-09, 10:17 AM

Socio

08-08-09, 10:37 AM

I am trying to get to the interior of the set to clean, but when I take the four screws off the bottome of the frame, the frame won't come off from the top. Is there a trick to getting the frame off? The bottom comes off fine (the part where the four screws are) but the top seems stuck. Any ideas?

It just clicks in at the top in three spots, you need to gently knock up on it; I just use the wrist end of my palm to tap up on the top of the frame starting at one end, then middle and the other end.

Tony V.

08-08-09, 12:11 PM

If the model is a 710, you have 4 more screws in the top of the frame that need to come out.. in my experience anyway,... they are under the 1/2 inch trim placed in the upper part of the frame. Then it will pop off easily.

Mr Bob

08-08-09, 01:40 PM

Tony, that's if you want to remove the glarescreen, that clear acrylic layer that provides such great reflections that interfere with your picture when there's any light in the room. I agree that it should be taken off if you want to avoid those pesky reflections, but not for optics cleaning purposes.

If you want to get inside to clean the optics, the entire frame, including the glarescreen, has to come off first, as was described above Tony's post. The glarescreen can stay where it is if all you want is to remove the frame, which is of course its housing.

If you're going to clean the optics, be VERY very careful. "Be afraid, be very afraid..."

The lenses are plastic and EXTREMELY vulnerable to being scratched. Or even worse scuffed, which is thousands of tiny scratches at a time, both of which are permanent damage. I have seen damage out there that has torn my heart out...

The mirror is a front/first surface mirror, which means that you are NOT cleaning glass. The products you use must not be allowed to strip that mirroring off of the glass beneath.

The lenses are multiple in each stack/barrel, meaning you must not allow liquid to run down into the deeper lenses or they will fog up.

The upper back of the set, which is slanted and houses the mirror, must NOT be removed from the back of the set. If you do, your mirror will take a nosedive into your screens.

This op is best left to a professional, and by that I don't mean the guys from Magnolia or Best Buy, nor anyone hired to do periodic maintenance on an extended service plan.

I am available if you want private phone coaching on it, as many before you have done. I hold your hand on it, all the way thru it, to make sure nothing bad happens. Nor anything REALLY bad...

:eek:

I saw a Hitachi in Vegas that had to be regunned because of the optics having been damaged by a repair tech who evidently used a dry towel to "clean" the coolant covers, grinding in permanent concentric gouges to the coolant covers during what shoulda been a routine regunning procedure. After I discovered it and showed it to the owner, he had it regunned AGAIN, after that initial regunning of a year before, where the tech did indelible and permanent damage to the optics.

Fortunately he was able to have both done under his ESP, but not all of us will be so lucky...

If interested contact me directly please, NOT by pm.

b

Mr Bob

08-09-09, 12:50 PM

Screenshots from my latest out of town calibration, in Seattle, a Pioneer Elite 720 CRT. More later:

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3325/8909tomtjanrsbergseattl.jpg

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/3325/8909tomtjanrsbergseattl.jpg

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/3325/8909tomtjanrsbergseattl.jpg

mgoguen9

08-09-09, 04:53 PM

Hello all,

This may have already been answered, but there's 65 pages of posts, so I figured I would just ask. I have a pro510 that is giving me a "negative" display. It's extremely bright. Has anyone come across this? I replaced the convergence board, and in doing so, I'm wondering if I screwed something else up. Any advise would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike

Mr Bob

08-10-09, 03:49 AM

Why on earth did you replace the whole board when only the ICs need replacing??? That bit of trivia is all over the net -

Go back and make sure you placed all plug-ins where they are supposed to be. If you don't have any way to know, perhaps someone whose set works properly could send you a pic of theirs -

b

mgoguen9

08-10-09, 05:47 PM

Well, it was my father's tv. He has a tendency to just replace boards rather than sort out the problem hiself. This is why I have the TV now. Thanks for your help Bob.

Mr Bob

08-12-09, 12:03 AM

Someone said my pix looked blurry. Let's see if this will help -

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/3325/8909tomtjanrsbergseattl.jpg

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/3325/8909tomtjanrsbergseattl.jpg

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/3325/8909tomtjanrsbergseattl.jpg

dopyiii

08-13-09, 03:45 PM

After skimming through a lot of these pages, I'd like to think that there's some hope for my hand-me-down 720. Up until a few months ago, it was fine. Then, the classic symptom (screen goes blue, it "pops" and then comes back) started showing up. Then, about a month ago, after the "pop" it would just shut off (sometimes without the "pop"). Now I'm in a situation where the TV won't turn on at all. I get the red standby light on the front, but it will never go green.

Do you suppose that this could be fixed by a simple -complete - resoldering of the PS, or am I likely looking at bigger problems? I have not yet done anything to the TV other than mutter at it under my breath, and I'm not an hardware whiz (software is my game). What kind of advice can you offer? Like others, I don't wanna push my super awesome TV to the curb.

Thanks a bunch in advance!

PamW

08-13-09, 03:53 PM

Do NOT power up your set anymore until you do the fix!!!!!

Now go back and read thoroughly this long (but VERY informative) thread. Mr Bob has been terrific with his advice and expertise. You will find most of your answers already here.

Mr Bob

08-13-09, 08:06 PM

Pam, I appreciate the nod, but that ain't gonna happen. Not with most people anyway. Very few people have the patience it takes to read this whole thread.

It doesn't matter tho, because most of the early info on this problem is hopelessly outdated by now anyway. The info on this problem has evolved into some very easy, simple data now, for owners to use. Using old findings on this problem from the inception of this thread will only cause problems, and possibly cause further events that could lead to very expensive damage.

The info you who are having this problem need is all contained in the last few pages, including screenshots of how good your set CAN look after cleaning and calibration. That's most of the game, is knowing your set is NOT worn out - not anywere NEAR worn out, is only at cruising age by now - and that this issue has been fabulously documented by owners across the continent, including Canada.

Read this page and just a few pages back, and if you still have questions I'll be glad to answer them.

For now, if your set no longer powers up, give it time to REALLY get cold - unplug it and wait a few days - then try it again. More often than not, this restores it to at least working properly upon turn-on, which is all we need to know for now.

Then DON'T allow it to warm up. Once you have established that your picture is present at your viewscreen and normal, SHUT IT DOWN within 40 seconds of turn-on, and KEEP IT COLD and unwarmed up.

If your set presents with a normal picture upon turn-on, you're back to the best case scenario for this problem - the hinky solder conn's have SO FAR not sent a huge spike down your lines, killing a board in there. If it has not gone any farther than normal ops most of the time with only intermittent problems, resoldering the PS board - virtually completely - is the answer, preserving all the original voltages and currents your set was calibrated with originally at the factory. The calibration used to set your set up at the factory will NOT be preserved if you buy a new and different board. Only if you keep your present one in there, fully restored.

Even if it has gone farther, your set can still be saved; it will just be more expensive and require some troubleshooting, which I can do for you over the phone. If it won't come on again after a few days of being unplugged, contact me directly and we'll take it to the next level.

No pms please! Contact me directly.

b

Socio

08-13-09, 08:31 PM

FYI for those that are going to buy replacement IC's;

I ordered a pair of Pioneer Power Pac IC's STK392-180 and paid a premium for these because I wanted "Pioneer" parts.

Anyway I did not order from Pioneer because they have a blurb where they will switch them for the 110's if the 180's are not available and did not want to take a chance on getting 110's.

So I found them and ordered them from an Ebay store called PartStoreOutlet; what I got was two STK392-180s (prongs a bent to hell) with a lot number of A5121 in plastic zip lock bags with a photo copy of a Pioneer packing label inserted in the bag. Suffice it to say I am not sure what I got but the packaging does not give me confidence that they are actually from Pioneer.

Moral of the story if you want make sure these are from Pioneer you need to order them from Pioneer.

Edit:Installed them they seem to work ok but I probably paid a lot more than I should have, I will chalk it up to just another life lesson.

dopyiii

08-13-09, 09:31 PM

Mr Bob

08-13-09, 11:32 PM

djones18

08-14-09, 06:59 AM

This is not a job that should be done by amateurs! I was just chastized by a fellow tech friend of mine on Home Theater Shack.com for encouraging anyone and everyone to do it if they want to, which I did earlier on in this thread.

NOT.

He himself has found boards done by amateurs with solder bridges on them.

If you want to do your own conv IC replacement, I encourage you to, it's a pretty strightforward job. Len himself puts out a fine tutorial on it.

But if you want to do this resoldering job on this $5-7K set, you are barking up the wrong tree if you expect me to support you in doing so. There are far too many tiny connections on that board, and there is FAR too much riding on it for me to encourage you when the only training you have had is from YouTube.

Do you have any idea what would happen if you do any of this wrong??? Neither do I, and I don't want to find out! There are far too many variables on this job where things could go wrong. And this is a far too sophisticated set to take chances like that on.

:rolleyes:

GET A PRO ON IT.

Try it yourself at your own peril, unless you are a seasoned, experienced bench technician or assembler with years under your belt ALREADY.

b

I couldn't agree more. I pulled my Pro-510 failing Power Supply Board and one look told me this was a job for an expert. Yes, I've stayed at a Holiday Inn Express and I built a Heathkit digital clock thirty years ago. No, they don't qualify me to refurbish Pro-510 Power Supply Boards.

I had my board professionally re-soldered and it has worked flawlessly for months. Yes, some folks with limited experience have attempted this with success. However, the risk of creating a solder bridge, mishandling or damaging the board greatly increases with inexperience. Take Mr. Bob's advice, spend the money and get the board resoldered by he or another pro.

drumhedz

08-14-09, 10:51 AM

Okay, so I just got the TV to run back on :). I immediately shut it back off and assume that I just need to do a complete solder job. Now, before I do that, are there any pitfalls or tips you can give a newbie (other than "oh my gosh don't do it yourself if you've never done if before, you idiot!")?

I know the basics of how to solder thanks to a couple of good videos on YouTube. But, additional tips or tricks for this job would be very welcome. Also, anyone have any pictures that they've taken doing the soldering? I'd just hate to mess things up by making a typical rookie mistake and would like to know what I'm getting into.

Thanks!

If you have received your 710 as a hand-me-down, don't skimp on getting the PS board re-soldered properly. This is the key to reviving your set. Mr. Bob does quality work at a modest fee, and I am still thankful to have found this thread when I did. We have been enjoying our 510 now for several months and no problems. I can personally attest to Bob's professionalism and work ethic. It is well worth it.

Socio

08-14-09, 08:06 PM

I couldn't agree more. I pulled my Pro-510 failing Power Supply Board and one look told me this was a job for an expert. Yes, I've stayed at a Holiday Inn Express and I built a Heathkit digital clock thirty years ago. No, they don't qualify me to refurbish Pro-510 Power Supply Boards.

I had my board professionally re-soldered and it has worked flawlessly for months. Yes, some folks with limited experience have attempted this with success. However, the risk of creating a solder bridge, mishandling or damaging the board greatly increases with inexperience. Take Mr. Bob's advice, spend the money and get the board resoldered by he or another pro.

Ditto, much of the solder areas are very tiny and close together to the point you need to lean over a magnifying glass to see what you are doing. It is unbelievably tedious, you have to be very methodical in your approach, cannot allow even the slightest bit of solder from one joint drift to another (creating a bridge). You have to check, check and recheck your work thus it is very time consuming so it is far safer to hire a pro to do it.

Mr Bob

08-15-09, 11:21 AM

Thank you, guys, it sounds even better when YOU say it!

;)

Hope he listens...

:rolleyes:

b

Mr Bob

08-15-09, 02:08 PM

More from Dr. Tom's Pioneer Elite 720 CRT (7-8 yrs old?)

Remember to hit F11 to get the total effect

Overall pic from a distance - got blueish that way for some reason, but shows his whole setup...

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/8245/seattleportlandtripfort.jpg

real thing, up close and personal

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/8245/seattleportlandtripfort.jpg

For those who think I use too much black crush. Personally, I think this sets up too much white crush, but take your pick...

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/8245/seattleportlandtripfort.jpg

Optical transparency in action delivering depth, from freshly cleaned optics. Notice the reflection of the cop's helmet at the top of the shot

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9509/seattleportlandtripforti.jpg

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8245/seattleportlandtripfort.jpg

"she jumped -"

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/8245/seattleportlandtripfort.jpg

The priest

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/2120/seattleportlandtripfortc.jpg

Priest with black crush - somewhat dim but accurate forehead luminance

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/8245/seattleportlandtripfort.jpg

Priest with white crush (there is no in between), with forehead blasted with light. But I prefer this one anyway - with the white crush - in this case!

;)

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/8245/seattleportlandtripfort.jpg

Socio

08-15-09, 07:28 PM

Any idea on what would cause this;

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/5231/topmty.th.jpg (http://img35.imageshack.us/my.php?image=topmty.jpg)

It is almost like the red, blue and green are bent over at the top of the screen toward the viewer like bending the top of a page on a magazine toward you. Yet the geometry and convergence on the convergence screen appear straight.

Mr Bob

08-15-09, 08:11 PM

Socio

08-16-09, 12:44 PM

There is an invisible row of points at the top of the screen that affects both top and bottom, but mostly top. You need to use it to get it right again.

You might have to take your height in on each color to get the top right, then expand it out again once corrected. BE SURE TO WRITE DOWN ALL REGISTER VALUES YOU BEGIN WITH, ON ALL 3 COLORS! This kind of thing requires a baseline to be able to come back to, if necessary.

This is NOT the edge of the CRT that you're seeing, even tho it kinda looks like that. There's plenty of room above and below the pic for adjustments, far less than at the sides, when 4x3 CRTs are being used for 16x9 pix.

b

It said in the Service Manual that;

(the coordinates outside the ranges indicated below are outside
the screen, and adjustment will not have any effect on the
screen):

However it is wrong and you are right I adjusted those invisible coordinates at the top which are outside of the viewable screen and that did the trick.

Thanks!

Mr Bob

08-16-09, 12:46 PM

Yes and ideally their grid extends all the way up. As you can see it does NOT. It's blank for the entire top 4". Makes it useless for the purpose of getting your picture top correct.

b

Mr Bob

08-16-09, 05:38 PM

There is also a column on the right offscreen, where the same thing happens, and they probably say THAT doesn't do anything either.

It does. It affects both the right and the left edges. If you know how to handle it, you can dial the whole thing in exquisitely.

If you don't, I would not go there, as you need specialized information to get it right. I didn't figure it out until I had been calibrating these babies for a couple of years already, and I was calibrating them all the time.

Don't go there unless you really know what you're doing or are in touch with someone who does. You could really fowl things up. On these types of things it's REAL easy to paint yourself into a corner REAL fast.

b

dopyiii

08-17-09, 09:49 AM

Thank you, guys, it sounds even better when YOU say it!

;)

Hope he listens...

:rolleyes:
b

While we need to work on Mr. Bob's delivery technique ;), I actually did listen. I met a guy at work with 20 years of Navy electronics hardware experience (plus civilian xp) who tinkers and fixes TVs as a hobby. He has a 610 Elite that had the same problem last year and resoldered his board with much success and no problems. I'm handing my PS over to him today. Will let you know the results.

mt_goat

08-17-09, 10:53 AM

Well I have a long post ready to add but the site won't let me until I have 3 posts. Too afraid of spamers I guess. So here's one post.

mt_goat

08-17-09, 10:54 AM

Two posts :D

mt_goat

08-17-09, 10:54 AM

3 and go;)

mt_goat

08-17-09, 10:55 AM

Hello all, very glad to find this thread. I have read all 65 pages now...yes all 1942 posts (took me about 2 weeks LOL). It got to a point I couldn't stop reading, like it was a novel or something I had to finish. Thanks to all that contributed!

I have had shut down problems with my Elite 510HD. I was just about ready to cut it up and make a stand out of the bottom half for a 52" Sony LCD ($1550 @ BB) when I decided to google "Elite 510HD" and found this thread. I'll never buy another Pio product as long as I live (I have had problems with other Pio products too and they all died way too young).

My set was acting a little different than most on here. At first in the middle of watching something the screen with just go blank and the sound would go off, no pop, then after a minute or 2 there would be a loud pop and it would all come back on and be fine for weeks. I only saw one other person in this thread that had a pop-on like this. Sometimes there would be a quick flash but it was so fast I didn't notice a specifc color involved. My wife says it was a blue flash. After a few months of this it started turning itself off (red light on front panel), but would still power back up with the remote. Shortly after that it required unplugging to get it to power back up.

I decided to take the LOWER back panel off to see what I could see (I'm an ME not a EE) so of course I didn't see anything wrong except one blown 6.3A fuse and an LED lit up on the PS board. I found a replacement fuse at a local TV service place and put it in hoping that was all that was wrong (well a guy can always hope right?). The tv worked great for 2 days (I left the back panel off and the set pulled away from the wall during that time just in case the fuse blew again). The tv worked fine during that time, better picture than I even remembered actually so I put the back panel on and pushed the tv back into place. My wife was impressed :D, but about an hour or 2 after that it shut down again. So I pull the lower back panel off again and this time find 2 red LEDs lit up (one on the PS board and one on the Deflection board) and this time a 5A fuse was blown but the 6.3A was fine. It was about this time I start shopping for a new tv and planning to cut up this POS Pio. :mad:

Then I found this thread and started reading, after a few pages of reading I pulled the PS board to see if I could see any bad solder spots and still didn't see any thing that looked bad enough to cause a problem. I called Mr Bob at that point to see about having him resolder the PS board and left a message for him to call. While I waited for him to return my call I started reading on page 1 post #1. It was about page 10 I decided even if Mr Bill called me back I'd probably resolder the PS board myself and I kept reading to pick up more points. About page 35-40 I was feeling pretty sure I could do it myself.

I consider myself a good solderer but not a pro by any means. I already had 2 soldering guns and 2 soldering irons, 3 different thickness of 60-40 solder in my tool box. Also I own a Optiviser magnifier head piece which I highly recommend for many things after your eyes get over 50 years old LOL.

I saw where Mr Bob said to try the powering up one last time before you attempt the resolder the PS board, so I went to Radio Shack and got a 5A fast blow fuse and put the PS board back in and turned on the TV one last time for about 30 sec (just long enough to see that the pic looked fine) and shut down and pulled the PS board out for a COMPLETE resoldering. ;)

First I cleaned up the board some and carefully cut away some of the globs of silicone that covered a few solder points. I wanted to resolder EVERY spot, except the test pins and heatsink attachment points.

After looking very closely with good light and magnification I saw some rings around the E3 connectors at the grounding pins. But not at the + voltage pins. I wonder if bad grounds cause the pop-ons and bad + voltage pins cause the pop-offs?

Anyway I sat down at 10am here to resolder my board:

http://inlinethumb64.webshots.com/28799/2130472200042310107S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2130472200042310107lfglYU)

http://inlinethumb01.webshots.com/43136/2344401420042310107S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2344401420042310107bAFJVr)

http://inlinethumb35.webshots.com/45538/2652788010042310107S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2652788010042310107GMKgaT)

I worked straight till 4:30 pm with only a break for lunch or about 5 1/2 total hours of resoldering the board. I used the better part a whole tube of the .032" dia 60-40 solder on that board, as said many times in this thread, these boards are very thirsty for solder. Many points look fine until you hit them with the soldering iron and a big hole opens up begging for more solder. I guess Pio tried to save $1.50 worth of solder so my set would only cost $5000 instead of $5001.50 :rolleyes:

Anyway the thing was competely resoldered and I looked very carefully using an exact-o knife to made sure there were no solder bridges. Here's a few pics of the finshed board. Note: The red marks were just my way of keeping track of where I'd finished.

http://inlinethumb46.webshots.com/43245/2319320990042310107S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2319320990042310107ZYiUfo)

http://inlinethumb19.webshots.com/44050/2328135080042310107S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2328135080042310107tXoiSK)

http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/46045/2659761550042310107S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2659761550042310107NalDlK)

The board is back in and working fine. The picture looks better than I can ever remember it looking and no hint of any problems now for 1 week (fingers crossed). I know its been said that IF the deflection board LED ever lit up you would need to replace that board but so far I've not had a problem. All I have done is resolder the PS board and replace 2 fuses to date.

If this repair holds up, my next goal is to clean the dust off the optics (never been done). I plan to follow Mr. Bill's advice on that, already bought the Sprayway glass cleaner. I'm not sure about the paper towels though :o I may try lint free cotton cloth first.

After that I'd like to try and get rid of the horrible overscan problem. I can't even watch the HD version on CNBC because the whole top line of data is cut off, not to mention we can't see the scores on games! :o I've already started reading up on the shimming mod.

Some of the pages of info I've bookmarked so far that were helpful:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=402397&pp=30&page=5

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=402397&pp=30&page=7

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=402397&pp=30&page=8

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=402397&pp=30&page=10

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=402397&pp=30&page=15

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=402397&pp=30&page=18

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=402397&pp=30&page=19

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=402397&pp=30&page=21

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=402397&pp=30&page=22

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=402397&pp=30&page=34

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/learnabout/generaltips/screenoptics/cleaningtheoptics.html

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=402397&pp=30&page=38

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=402397&pp=30&page=41

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=402397&pp=30&page=46

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-repair-maintenance/5600-crt-based-rptv-convergence-repairs.html

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=402397&pp=30&page=53

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=402397&pp=30&page=57

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:YY_A4zQRFgMJ:www.***************.com/fusionbb/gettopic.php%3Fdir/next/t/1244400219/fid/41/rtid/142885/+overscan,+and+the+shimming&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1129800

http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=431315&highlight=hitachi+frame+overscan

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1129800&page=3

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=402397&pp=30&page=60

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=402397&pp=30&page=61

BTW that last link is where I found a free download for the complete service manual, special thanks to Zodiac for hosting that one!

Mr Bob

08-17-09, 01:14 PM

Awesome post! Great to have that input about the defl bd that reveals that the board is not necessarily blown just because its red LED is on. DK about anybody else, but that's new info for me. This could save on the unnecessary replacement of lots of (relatively expensive) defl bds!

;)

Now rethink using anything that's cloth for the optics cleaning. NO cloth - including microfibre - has the absorption factor of paper towels. Used PROPERLY paper towels will not hurt anything, and will absorb everything needing absorption, the best way possible. And with wet methods - NO DRY METHODS ARE ACCEPTABLE EITHER - there's LOTS of absorption that will have needed to happen before you're thru.

But you MUST NOT clean the lenses the same way you clean the mirror. The 2 sets of optics need entirely DIFFERENT cleaning methods. Applying the same methods to both will cause permanent damage to the lenses. NEVER go back and forth on the lenses.

:eek:

Not with anything, except maybe a fine delicate brush, like a camera or cosmetics brush! And only for ushering to the side or sweeping away fresh airborn pieces of lint or other newly sucked-from-the-air contaminants. (via the HV - see my website for details)

You've been warned...

:o

But again, great post! Glad we've been able to implement saving tons of these great sets, across the country!

:cool:

b

mt_goat

08-17-09, 02:07 PM

You've been warned...

Noted and thanks for all your contribution to this forum. I like to try and give at least as much as I take and this thread has helped me a lot so I hope to pay something forward. I'll report back if any problems show up later.

Mr Bob

08-17-09, 03:52 PM

I think you've paid forward a goodly amount already! Please continue...

:cool:

b

jlvollmer

08-17-09, 04:00 PM

630-fusion

08-17-09, 04:30 PM

After that I'd like to try and get rid of the horrible overscan problem. I can't even watch the HD version on CNBC because the whole top line of data is cut off, not to mention we can't see the scores on games! I've already started reading up on the shimming mod.

I know that my Pro-510hd set has serious overscan on VGA connection. From what I can tell there are a couple of ways to deal with it. Each one has it's own positives and negatives. Straight from the factory I don't think the you can ever really see 1080i 1920x1080 resolution it's more like 1080i 1820x1000 screen with a computer. My thought is this is the reason why the ticker gets messed up with the HDTV box. Overscan is present on all the connections HD connections :confused:

1.) Physical (shimming Mod)
2.) Calibration (Through the service menu)
3.) Modeline (Through a computer)
4.) Application (Through a computer application)

bweissman

08-17-09, 06:42 PM

I just accessed the maintenance menu on my Pioneer 510 rptv by pushing the button in (the one hidden behind the front panel) with a paper clip, then pushing ANT button (I know, I should have a service manual before doing this - can't find one on the internet though).

After getting out of the maintenance menu, I can't receive channels past 13. I have pushed the ANT button again, gone into the general setup menu and looked for a setting that lets me tell the tv that I am using cable tv instead of an antenna. But I can't find any setting like that. I don't know if me going into the maintenance menu caused this or not. Anybody know how to fix this?
ANT in service mode would put you into Screen Size Adjustment mode. As long as you didn't touch any other keys on the remote and quickly exited service mode, you didn't do any harm. But you did reset some of the 510's settings.

To get back into cable mode, Menu -> Set up -> Auto Channel Preset -> TV/Cable mode -> CATV STD. Then you'll need to rescan for channels.

And PLEASE get the service manual before going into service mode.

mt_goat

08-17-09, 06:51 PM

(I know, I should have a service manual before doing this - can't find one on the internet though).

See post # 1815 here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=402397&pp=30&page=61

mt_goat

08-17-09, 06:53 PM

I know that my Pro-510hd set has serious overscan on VGA connection. From what I can tell there are a couple of ways to deal with it. Each one has it's own positives and negatives. Straight from the factory I don't think the you can ever really see 1080i 1920x1080 resolution it's more like 1080i 1820x1000 screen with a computer. My thought is this is the reason why the ticker gets messed up with the HDTV box. Overscan is present on all the connections HD connections :confused:

1.) Physical (shimming Mod)
2.) Calibration (Through the service menu)
3.) Modeline (Through a computer)
4.) Application (Through a computer application)

Thanks, I didn't know about #3 and #4. :D

Mr Bob

08-17-09, 11:49 PM

I didn't realize you were using a computer on the VGA input. Many use an actual VGA connection, like from an HD Fury II, or other scaler.

If you're using it for computer, then yes it's liable to have horrible overscan. But as has been mentioned above, I have never seen a computer that didn't allow for sizing of the pix in its own program. Much better to do it that way than to mess with the sizing of regular HD material and possibly not have the 2 in sync with each other, seeing as how they are both 1080i, which has only 1 set of sizing registers no matter what the format - component or RGB/VGA.

b

Mr Bob

08-18-09, 12:19 PM

I just put this response up at the Don't Dump Your CRT RPTV! thread, thought owners here might appreciate reading it -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17019663&posted=1#post17019663

Hey guys, my Pioneer 64" Elite 730hdi is pristine except I have to adjust the convergence about once a week in the user or sm.....The problem is usually more severe at the corners where the convergence will seem to hold fine for a few days and then I turn it on one day and I can tell its drifted again..Sometimes its just a barely noticeable drift, and sometimes more noticeble, but its generally not the center of the grid, just the corners...My harmony remote is set to turn on the directv guide when I start my watch tv activity so i generally can notice it right away.......Im not sure if its the ic's or something Im missing whenever I re-converge it......Any suggestions?? Thanks.......

Are you waiting the requisite time - 45 minutes - for it to warm up? Any offness during that period after turn-on from dead cold just has to be put up with and not paid attention to. It's endemic to all CRT triple-gun tech.

b

In other words: dump your CRT RPTV.

My 610 is the same. Needs convergence every week. Now beyond my patience level. Waiting for Panny's next plasma...

In other words: dump your CRT RPTV.

No, that's not what I would say at all. Waiting 45 minutes after turnon for the best pic possible - and most people don't even notice it during the first 45 minutes, you and I and the people who man these threads are the exceptions - or turning on your set 45 minutes ahead of time to all black content, which won't age your guns at all - is a small price to pay for the benefits of sticking with CRT.

My 610 is the same. Needs convergence every week. Now beyond my patience level. Waiting for Panny's next plasma...

My CRT sets go months at a time without any need for reconverging after the 45 minute warmup period, static or dynamic. Usually I just turn it on and watch my set's typical breathtaking images. Occasionally the static crosshairs need it, but the dynamic stays good almost indefinitely after a thorough supertweaking.

Has your 610 ever had its PS board resoldered? If not it may be starting to break down, as they all seem to be doing right now because of the schlocky job done in their solder flow op, during original production of that series. There's a huge thread on that -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=402397&page=66

Simply getting it professionally resoldered properly - which most local techs don't do, they usually only do the joints that are bad at that time, neglecting the ones that will happen later as the warmup/cooldown of normal ops continues to create expansion and contraction in there at the joints - cures it every time.

It's a stealth grade design on that board, which is so rock solid that those cold solder joints - that started showing up as breaking down around 5 years ago and have been steadily breaking down ever since, each with its own time frame - don't ever do that board in. It was a bad soldering job on JUST that board - the entire CRT triple gun genre has not been affected, nor have any of the other boards in that series - and IMHO Pioneer shoulda done a recall on that situation, and has really dropped the ball with their constituency. But in the grand scheme of things, resoldering that board properly again is a small price to pay to stay able to use that fantastic Pioneer Elite triple gun CRT series - the entire 510/610/710 series and the initial run of the 520/620/720 series, all of which were fantastic sets but have been torpedoed by Pioneer because of their having used that same compromised PS board.

Some of the regulation on the PS bd provides the power to the conv ICs. If it has started to go cold solder and get hinky like many others on that board eventually do, that could affect the absolute stability that's supposed to be being delivered by that board to the rest of your set in the affected areas at this time, and those voltages in particular. As time goes on more and more of those PS board solder connections go hinky, till they finally take your set down.

All of which can be corrected by simply getting your PS board resoldered PROPERLY. I do it all the time on boards sent to me from across the continent. 2 are awaiting my attention in the boxes they were sent in, right now. I have a huge string of sets across the continent including Canada that I've brought back from the edge, where those sets are now purring along contentedly and pleasing their owners to no end, no longer exhibiting those intermittent problems that are endemic to this cold solder situation.

These sets were never designed to be operated by an intermittent power supply. They were designed to be operated by a rock solid power supply. There is no compromising allowable in that type of situation, where that board is responsible for all voltages sent out from it to the rest of the boards in the set. It's rock solid or eventual damage, once the intermittencies have started to show up. There is no in between.

But that coulda happened to any model of any set of that or any other vintage, it does NOT reflect badly on CRT as a genre. It ONLY reflects badly on its manufacturer. Luckily the remedy is a relatively minor expense when caught early on and dealt with immediately, before further damage downline can occur.

Worst case scenario is if your actual conv ICs are starting to age and need to be replaced. Generally speaking they leave your geo/conv pretty much alone after being replaced and you only need to tighten up your conv afterwards.

It's a relatively simple op where there is lots of documentation on the net from fellow owners who have done it for themselves.

It's like changing out a worn out thermostat on a car. You don't total your car out, you change the thermostat and keep driving.

:p

The 610 cost the average owner $6000. Why buy a new Pioneer or Panny plasma for around that same price, when for a fraction of that you can have your 610 restored to a condition that is far beyond excellent, as evidenced by my screenshots of recently calibrated sets from that same series as yours or the x20 series?

b

Mr Bob

08-18-09, 12:59 PM

Sorry, these shoulda been brighter in the darks, will do better next time -

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/8245/seattleportlandtripfort.jpg

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/8245/seattleportlandtripfort.jpg

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/8245/seattleportlandtripfort.jpg

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/8245/seattleportlandtripfort.jpg

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3343/seattleportlandtripfortt.jpg

sailakfan

08-19-09, 07:33 PM

Hello,
We are planning on a calibration tour to Dallas, San Antonio and Houston during the middle part of September. Anybody interested to join send me an email.
sailakfan

dopyiii

08-19-09, 10:42 PM

630-fusion

08-19-09, 11:26 PM

I would recommend

First get the rest of the board soldered.

Second check the fuses with a meter if one is blown this will cause the red
light to go on the pwer supply .

Good Luck

Mr Bob

08-20-09, 01:36 AM

Okay, update on my 720. I had almost all the power supply board resoldered (the guy who did it did "about 75% of all the joints"). Now that I've got it back and put in, when I turn it on I get the red "power down" LED on the PS board. No other LEDs show up anywhere in the set that I can find.

What are my next steps?

Since you farmed out the job, the guy who did that 75% may have screwed it up, and without going over ALL his work you wouldn't know, once you started your own additions to the soldering process.

The most important step in this process is the inspections you give it after you have finished soldering. Yes, "inspections". I go over them and over them and over them again, before I send them out. With different lighting, coming onto the board from different directions, and excellent lighting at that. With magnification at all times.

Try that, see if there are any solder bridges that have been left on the board.

And yes, definitely finish the job!

b

dopyiii

08-20-09, 08:15 PM

I haven't done any soldering on the board. I've given it back to him to finish touching up (including those under the white silicone goop). He's also going to double-check the fuses and recheck for solder bridges. Should know more on Monday.

gfortune1981

08-23-09, 02:56 PM

This may not be the place for this question but some of you may be able to help me understand the best final picture on my 710HD at 1080i with use of my computer (HTPC).

I see talk of overscan concerns, and use of the VGA input in the 710HD.

I am setting up an HTPC for my standard DVDs and blu-rays on disk drive storage. My system will include:

TMT3 for playback set to 1080, Asus Slimline HDMI, HDMI to a Denon 5308CI, HDMI to HDFury II, component cables to my 710HD.

Thanks!

Gary

ps: Bob thanks for all your support with my 710HD!

Mr Bob

08-23-09, 03:23 PM

My pleasure Gary, glad I could help.

If you want overscan reduction, you COULD get it easily from your computer, but with the shimming op, you'll do it while preserving the area of screen face you're now using - or even maybe increasing it - without having to reduce the size of the pic on your CRT faces, which is what doing it via computer sizing would do, limiting any improvements in hor and vert resolution.

Reducing overscan mechanically is better than via doing it ONLY via the sm, every time.

b

bckncook

08-23-09, 03:38 PM

I'm in Raleigh and thinking about going for the calibration, cleaning, and overscan services for my PRO-710HD.

And if nothing else, I'm ready to give the phone consultation a whirl...

mt_goat

08-28-09, 12:15 PM

Mr Bob

08-28-09, 12:47 PM

I'm in Raleigh and thinking about going for the calibration, cleaning, and overscan services for my PRO-710HD.

And if nothing else, I'm ready to give the phone consultation a whirl...

Call me. Contact me directly, no pms please -

b

Mr Bob

08-28-09, 12:51 PM

Just an update on my Pro 510, remember I had the deflection LED lighting up along with shutdowns before completely resoldering the PS. Everything has been working fine for a few weeks. Then (just a small hiccup) 2 nights ago we had a bad thunderstorm and the whole house lost power for a second or 2 and after the power came back on the 510 was in shutdown mode with both the PS and deflection board LEDs on. After unpluging the 510 for a minute it has been fine since. BTW I do have a Monster Power surge protector.

I guess I've started to become a Videophile because since resoldering that PS board I've noticed lots of screen burn in the 510. The worst is from the CNBC white ticker at the bottom, but we also have a nice big "4" burnt in from the local news channel logo. So I start looking around and found a used Pro 530HD on ebay in Dallas (about a 3 hour drive for me) and won the bidding at $167.50. It has no screen burn at all, but it doesn't look quite as sharp on details as my 510 is. I'm hoping I can fix that though.

Holy ****! A 530 for less than $200??? You stole that baby. A Dallas/Houston tour is going to be happening in mid September. Climb on board now if you want me to really trick her out for you.

Yeah, that CNBC is DANGEROUS. I believe that also applies to MSNBC. Anytime you go to that kind of clueless-graphics channel you MUST lower your Contrast, which is your overall light level.

Dish Network also has full tilt all-white graphics which they have no intention of changing to something safe for our sets, unlike NBC who changed their SciFi logo from full white to half white within a week in response to my calling them on it. Half intensity/transparent/white or gray is all it takes to make graphics safe for our sets.

BE CAREFUL!

:eek:

b

mt_goat

08-28-09, 05:01 PM

Holy ****! A 530 for less than $200??? You stole that baby.

Yeah it was a steal, especially since it has had very little use. They were an old couple moving into a retirement home and rarely watched TV.

Wish I could afford your fees to do the cleaning and calibration, but I don't think I can. I plan on trying it first on the old 510 so maybe I'll be experienced by the time I get to the 530. I did notice the 530 has a serial port labled "service only" maybe for a laptop connection that my 510 doesn't have. Is that used in the calibration process?

Mr Bob

08-28-09, 05:28 PM

DK.

But if you want to get your optics cleaned safely, you should have me at your side no matter which set you do first. It's not expensive at all.

The cal maybe yes, the coaching definitely no.

And when you think about having me do the calibration, remember you're sitting on a $5000 unit you got for under $200. That means you paid a minimum of $4800 less than the poor sap who bought it new. So use part of that $ to really get it right and fully maxed out in its performance, and have that new Lamborghini of yours worth driving! You'll have saved $ left over -

:p

b

mt_goat

08-28-09, 10:55 PM

The cal maybe yes, the coaching definitely no.

Thanks I'll keep that in mind, nice to have someone to call if I get in trouble. :D

rkumar

08-29-09, 05:00 PM

About 2 weeks ago when I turned my PRO710 on, the convergence was completely messed up. The blue was shifted a good 2" everywhere on the screen. I called a tech in who determined the problem is with the convergence amp. assy board (AWZ6456) and is going to charge $700 to replace the damaged board.

3 years ago I had the infamous "blue screen and pop" issue and replaced the power board at that time. Is it worth pouring more money into this TV to replace the convergence board? Even after that, I haven't even gotten a full calibration on the set.

I didn't see any responses on this forum about issues with convergence... but any suggestions?

Mr Bob

08-30-09, 03:31 AM

There is no need to replace a faulty conv bd on your Elite. Usually all that's needed is replacement of the conv ICs, exceptions to that are so few and far between that they are totally unnoticeable. I have done this IC replacement on many boards that have been sent to me from across the continent and presto! The set works fine again, even when I can't dry run the repair before the board is re-installed on the unit in question.

Many DIYers do it themselves for the cost of the ICs, which can be under $50. Using a better grade IC is best for reliability, don't use cheap knock-offs.

And three years ago when you replaced your PS board, I coulda saved your old one - the original PS board should always stay in your unit whenever possible, it's the one your entire unit was set up on at the factory and after factory calibration they became a matched pair - for less than 300 in my direction.

Yes it's TOTALLY worth saving your set, even if just for a few more years minimum. It is only at cruising age, and if you've seen my recent screenshots on this very thread - nay, this very PAGE - you know what it CAN look like, given the proper attention.

SAVE YOUR SET. It is one of the last of its kind, and when properly optimized, shows up most of the fixed pixel realm out there, even brand new fixed pixel. Send me the board and I'll upgrade those ICs to the newer, much stronger ones.

If you want to see why people are saving CRT sets, see my Don't Dump Your CRT RPTV! thread here -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695922&page=195

If you want to see what these babies can really do, check out the Screenshot War!!!!!!!! thread here, where it's primarily CRT ceiling pjs, but with lots of CRT RPTV shots as well.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=900831&page=118

;)

b

brad w

09-07-09, 05:23 PM

Hey Bob,
I have been having the same problem with my pro 510hd that some of the other members have been having. About 2 weeks ago it started powering down on its own. Like an idiot, I continued to use it for another week before searching the forums for this site. Now I can't even get it to turn after allowing it get to a dead cold from 4-5 days of being unplugged. My question is should take out the PS board and send it to you? Is there another route to take here? I inherited this TV and don't have anything invested in it. Is it worth selling? Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Brad

Mr Bob

09-07-09, 11:34 PM

It's gone too far now to just send it to me. You waited too long, for the simple answers to have any effect now.

:(

I am not surprised, tho, seeing as how you got the set for free. Why put any extra attention on something you consider so expendable?

Not how I feel, of course, I want you to keep that set alive. They are capable of greatness. But you have to be the one to step up about it, and recognize its capacity for greatness, which I make clear in many posts here, many of them on this page and the one before it.

Contact me and we'll set up a phone troubleshooting session.

b

mt_goat

09-08-09, 08:05 AM

Brad, unplug the TV first and remove the LOWER back panel and look for blown fuses on the PS board (its the one the plug goes to). Replace the blown fuses and try a power-up. Just leave the set on long enough to see if it works and shut it down quickly. If you can still get a good picture during that power-up it has hope but the whole PS board must be resoldered before the TV is allowed to warm up again.

Hint: If you can't find the proper amp fuses at Radio Shack (Pioneer uses fast blow fuses), try a local TV repair place for them.

Mr Bob

09-08-09, 12:01 PM

Good answer, MT. Covers the first part of the troubleshooting, the part that hopes no boards have been damaged downline -

;)

b

Tony V.

09-08-09, 03:43 PM

[Hint: If you can't find the proper amp fuses at Radio Shack (Pioneer uses fast blow fuses), try a local TV repair place for them.[/QUOTE]

Another source for these is the Home Depot. They have 6 & 5 amp 125v fast acting fuses. Your local Radio Shack may not have fast acting fuses in the amperage we need. My local Shack did not.

Related fuse question,
Anybody have any idea why the slot for a 4a 125v would have a 750ma 250v fuse instead? Wouldn't that only be 1.5a at 125v?

Brad, it is worth it.
I haven't got a perfect tv, but it still beats most of the sets I have seen lately.

czc587

09-08-09, 05:46 PM

Well in Jan 06 I had the famous flash, and performed the resolder procedure. Things work great until yesterday. The set "popped off" twice according to my wife, and now will no longer come one. If I press the master power button, then then try power it on with the remote, the led light turns green, the relay powers up then after ab out 1-2 seconds the led turns red and it's done. Is it possible for this 2 happen again to a board that I already resoldered ?

mt_goat

09-09-09, 05:45 AM

I guess it all depends on how good it was resoldered. Was every joint done?

Mr Bob

09-09-09, 06:09 AM

Did you completely resolder it, aside from the miniscule exceptions listed by me elsewhere in this thread? If not, if you only did the conns being talked about in 06, that's why. It's like needed dental work - it's degenerative, and it never gets better on its own. Eventually those that weren't bad then become bad, eventually taking down your set with something more serious having been hit with a lightning bolt generated by those bad connections on the PS board and sent down into the rest of your set. I was the first one to say that the entire solder job was defective and needed resoldering, and perhaps I had not joined this thread yet when you did your resolder op, so you didn't know that yet.

Your set will now need a troubleshooting session, and if it was not completely resoldered at the time, will need the rest of the PS board resoldered before the rest of your set will be safe again. Aside from what's presently causing your shutdown. That will have to be remedied now as well.

b

czc587

09-09-09, 10:23 AM

MR Bob, I think your're right. Back in late05/06 when I resoldered the board I dont think resoldering the whole board was discussed and I seem to recall it didnt take too long for me to complete the resolder. OK, I'll redo the whole board this weekend and see what happens. I reread many of the posts here about resoldering and one point was not clear. Some posts imply that the resoldering should be done from the bottom side of the board vs from the top. Did I mis-read this, or is it prefered to resolder from the bottom ?

Mr Bob

09-09-09, 12:47 PM

It's a 1 sided board, you can only solder on the bottom.

You may skip the heat sinks, the test points and anything that was soldered later after the solder flow op, where the solder on THOSE joints is still glossy, gleaming and plentiful.

All the joints in the original solder flow op, which were always thin and have now grown flat and lusterless, need the resolder op.

That means 99% of the joints on that board.

Use magnification, good lighting, and repeated inspections for solder bridges and any missed flat and lusterless joints, before re-installing it and trying it out. Takes me a LONG time to go stem to stern on the resoldering op. But it has to be done right, and the FIRST time.

If you leave even ONE solder bridge between 2 points that should not be touching each other and fire it up again, I will not be responsible for what might happen to your set. I do double and triple inspections before I send back the boards that are sent to me for this op, just because of that potential danger. I have not had any casualties so far, myself, of sets doing bad things to themselves on the boards I have resoldered, I am sure mostly because of my - admittedly - completely control conscious behavior around these boards...

b

mt_goat

09-09-09, 02:52 PM

BTW bad solder joints are not limited to Pioneer. My Sony AV receiver quit working and after removing the case I found some cold solder joints on one board. Resoldered it and its working fine now. :D

czc587

09-09-09, 03:32 PM

I was quite pleased with myself after the first fix, hopefully can do it again. Too bad we cant just stick in in the oven for 30 mins or something to remelt all the points :eek:

mt_goat

09-10-09, 11:29 AM

Anyone near East Northport, NY? Here's a 710 with a $1 bid on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320421899039&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

MarcS

09-10-09, 02:28 PM

I don't have a Pro series, but I do have the 58" "regular" RPTV, about 9 years old, calibrated by Gregg Loewen...

Cause and effect? I'm getting a new tv delivered this weekend, and last night, while watching the US Open, I got the blue flash and screen lightening for the very first time... :eek:

Do you think my Pioneer knows something?? LOL

I do admit to having the power board problems, although intermittent... and I might try soldering it up since it will not be the primary tv (note to Mr. Bob--I started soldering in my early teens or earlier building many Heathkits, including the R/C kit with the really tiny servos--and always had them 100% functional the first time...:) and I just got done soldering some HD15 connectors--now that's a pain in the ass!)

So, I can't keep both tv's, but want to find a good home for the Pioneer--any suggestions on the best way to find it a home?

Mr Bob

09-10-09, 05:35 PM

You just did what I woulda - you posted it here!

:)

b

danbodan

09-12-09, 06:52 PM

I wanted to pass some info I just learned about the power supply problem shutting down the 510 and 520TVs. I had this problem many months ago, then decided to remove it and touch up about 20 solder connections, put it back in and the TV functioned fine for about 3-5 months, then I started having the problem again. It would happen several times per day so I again removed the Power supply touched up the same 20 connections assuming it fixed it the first time, so it must be one of them, and after installing the supply, the TV worked fine....for about 3 months and the same problem with shutting off came back. Having been a tech many years ago repairing laptops I learned many of the problems were in the actual connection and not the actual components in the computer. Many of our fixes involved just unpluging and pluging back in the connections of the hard drive, etc. I just tried this approach on my 520HD power supply board(didn't remove or solder it) and it now seems to work fine. It was shutting off every 30 minutes or less, but after just taking all the wire harness connections off the power supply board and cleaning/mild sanding the larger visible pins, my TV is working again.

Mr Bob

09-12-09, 11:44 PM

If your set has the vertically mounted PS board, your problems are not over, and will continue coming back until you resolder everything involved in the entire original solder flow op, which was badly soldered at the factory. With very limited exception, the entire board needs to be resoldered if it hasn't been resoldered already.

The WHOLE thing. All except the heat sinks, test points and what's already been resoldered, either by you or the factory.

Otherwise this will keep coming up for you. Over and over. Eventually one of those conns will cause a huge spike to get sent down your power lines, taking out one or more boards in your set, very possibly totalling it, depending on how much or little you actually value it.

Continuing on the path you're presently on is playing Russian Roulette with your set. I have continually stated this, over and over, here on this thread, at www.fixya.com, and other places, like the SPot and the Home Theater Shack. Your solution is what was originally put out on this thread near its inception, and it took a few pages to catch its stride. But the evolution HAS happened, and the successful and permanent way of remedying this problem has been stated here over and over. I know it's a PITA to even consider reading the whole thread, but you need to at least read the past few pages, to really get what we have come up with here. After more than 5 years of this thread being very much alive and well and doing worlds of good for saving these incredible Elites, the 100% effective and permanent remedy IS here, I just stated it again a few lines ago here, above in this post. It took a lot of work and attention, and the unfaltering dedication of many who have contributed here along with me, but it HAS happened.

But thanks for offering what you have found out so far. Your heart's definitely in the right place!

;)

I invite you to do some more reading on this thread and discover how to increase your enjoyment of your set tenfold, once she's rock solid again. Solidly and permanently repairing your set from this problem is just the beginning!

:cool:

b

czc587

09-13-09, 01:05 AM

mt_goat

09-13-09, 10:46 AM

Anyone near East Northport, NY? Here's a 710 with a $1 bid on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320421899039&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

That auction ended with no bids, someone could have picked it up for $1.

Mr Bob

09-13-09, 04:53 PM

Well I've been resoldering my board the last few days. My set would power down after 1-2 seconds, also the red LED's on the power board and the deflection board were on. To resolder the board took a over 4 hours in 3 sittings to get all the points resoldered. As I was resoldering I noted one of the IC's had a dark spot under one of the pins.

So after the solder job was finally completed put in the board, pressed power but no success, it still shut off after a second or 2. I ordered one of the chips that looked suspect, it was a MC33167TV chip at 204 location. Pioneer wanted approx $38 for it, but digi sold them for 3 dollars! I soldered it in, press power and and voila, it started up again !!

Wow, first time I've heard of that one. You sure it was totally resoldered up front? It's one of those ICs that always seem to have a halo around most of the legs.

This could save a lot of sets, where it looked like 2 boards would have to be replaced/repaired, which would total out the set for lots of people.

Good show!

;)

b

MarkPaoli

09-14-09, 06:00 AM

Hi,

Really a nice solution I got for my player. Great forum really nice info there..I missed to take your assistant before buying my TV..:(

Mr Bob

09-15-09, 12:56 PM

Sorry to hear that!

:(

b

Mr Bob

09-15-09, 01:11 PM

On 2 occasions now I have been apprised of the wiring of the little standby transformer with the yellow wiring near the power cord, being severed. The second one was a direct observation by myself, before I personally fixed it. The second one was reported to me by phone and I thank the owner who reported it to me, as it alerted me to look for it on the board I was working on, which showed up at the owner's home non-op.

This will make your set not even show a front panel LED, because no standby power comes thru to even light that up, much less make your set ready for a turn-on command, either from the front panel or the remote. Your set will be absolutely dead and totally unresponsive to ANY stimulus.

This is the very low power standby power transformer, without which your set can't even get started down the power pathway TOWARD startup.

The reason is that if this transformer has been knocked sideways, the solder holding the legs is strong and will hold - there a lot of legs on it - but the prongs will shift their positions because they are simply press fitted into the holes in the soft plastic of the transformer housing. Your transformer will appear cockeyed, slanted, while the prongs stay where they are relative to the board. Meaning pulling on wires soldered to those shafts coming from the windings, and severing the connection to one or more of them.

The solution is of course to remove and rebuild the transformer touch points, where the wiring solders to those prongs. Nothing wrong with the transformer itself, just its conns to the legs, which solder to the pads on the bottom of the board.

I have sent back the board I found this problem on, will be hearing back soon from the owner that his set now works again.

This is a new wrinkle, have not encountered it before. It comes from mistreatment of the board in terms of that transformer being struck - or pushed strongly - from the side, off kiltering it.

So be careful in wrapping and boxing your board. If you hand it off and let your shipper do it without your supervision and oversight, you're taking the life of your board and placing it squarely out of your hands and into their hands. They are the first ones to use boxes that are too small for this shipping application, rather than double boxing or using boxes that are roomy, not compact. Compact is risky in this shipping application.

Aside from this we have not had a casualty on boards being broken in a long time. Great job owners, let's hope it continues and that this is just a bump in the road -

;)

b

JCBM

09-16-09, 07:46 AM

Mr. Bob
I have re-soldered my 510 PS bd 60~70% 3 years ago myself, and the set was pretty good since then. But recently I have a different problem than before. The set doesn’t shot down automatically like it happened 3 years ago, instead sometimes the screen twist horizontally, like the top portion lean to right and bottom lean to left, and after few twists, the pictures were not viewable, just some horizontal lines with mixed dots of colors. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2592/3925157721_61258ebf72_o.jpgSometimes it happened for around 10 to 20 seconds when I turned TV on and it back to normal shortly, sometimes it happened after I watched the TV for 2 to 3 hours. Sometimes it was just fine for 3 hours on. Not same each time. But one thing was similar to 3 years ago, if I shot the set down, wait for a minute or two and returned the set on, the screen was back and the problem was gone. Is this caused by PS board due to I didn’t solder the bd completely? Or this is something else that is getting bad? If it is still PS bd, I’m thinking send the bd to you to fix it, guess I didn’t do it right last time (first experience of soldering). I have the PS bd picture that I have taken last time, I can send to you to get some idea how the work was done 3 years ago, not proud though. The file size is not big, ~2.5mb, let me know if you are interested and where should I send to. Thanks!

John

Mr Bob

09-17-09, 12:07 PM

Feel free to send me the pic, to my regular email addy in my sig.

Your set is missing horizontal sync in this pic.

What you're describing in terms of timing of the problem and its intermittancy indicates it's still thermally related, so yes I would expect it to have come from the PS board not being completely resoldered. Perhaps this is an unusual wrinkle because we have little experience with what happens over time when not all the joints are resoldered. The normal thing on a virgin aged but completely unsoldered board is for the worst ones to go bad first, but who knows when you simply do some of them and not all? The whole resoldering op becomes a wild card.

Send me the board, I really don't need the pic, as I am sure of what I'll see. But send it along if you'd like.

Hopefully your set is working properly upon turnon from dead cold, which is what I require if you are going to be sending me a board. I need a firm baseline of your set working fine from dead cold, and only having problems after the set warms up. If any bad thing has gone permanent, something downline from the PS board has usually been damaged and we have to go to the next level of troubleshooting.

AND DON'T USE YOUR SET FOR VIEWING UNTIL THIS HAS BEEN HANDLED PROPERLY. Whatever is causing this to happen is just one of many possibilities, if your board was not totally resoldered at the time. DO NOT allow it back to normal operating temp while in this compromised condition, showing evidence of intermittent connections.

You may have a major spike ready to happen within the next viewing period, that could damage your set very expensively, possibly totalling it on you.

:eek:

UNPLUG YOUR SET until this has been handled adequately.

b

JCBM

09-17-09, 02:00 PM

Feel free to send me the pic, to my regular email addy in my sig.

Your set is missing horizontal sync in this pic.

What you're describing in terms of timing of the problem and its intermittancy indicates it's still thermally related, so yes I would expect it to have come from the PS board not being completely resoldered. Perhaps this is an unusual wrinkle because we have little experience with what happens over time when not all the joints are resoldered. The normal thing on a virgin aged but completely unsoldered board is for the worst ones to go bad first, but who knows when you simply do some of them and not all? The whole resoldering op becomes a wild card.

Send me the board, I really don't need the pic, as I am sure of what I'll see. But send it along if you'd like.

Hopefully your set is working properly upon turnon from dead cold, which is what I require if you are going to be sending me a board. I need a firm baseline of how your set is working now being OK, and only having problems after the set warms up.

AND DON'T USE YOUR SET FOR VIEWING UNTIL THIS HAS BEEN HANDLED PROPERLY. Whatever is causing this to happen is just one of many possibilities, if your board was not totally resoldered at the time.

You may have a major spike ready to happen within the next viewing period, that could damage your set very expensively.

:eek:

UNPLUG YOUR SET until this has been handled adequately.

b

I haven't turned on the set for 2 days, but the red light is on all the time, I guess it means it was not dead cold. I have unplugged cord now and let it be for few hours, and recheck it after work. What if when I turned the set on, the picture is still bad? Does it mean something already happened severely? Or it is still the ps bd? If it is, I will get the ps bd out tomorrow and send to you. Can you just remind me the disassemble steps briefly though I have done it before? And how to pack the bd appropriately? Like it said, ‘if you want to do it, do it right’. I didn’t do it right 3 years ago, no more mistakes. You can send the mail to: john.contact@gmail.com, and also let me know how I should pay you. Thanks!

John