Feel free to send me the pic, to my regular email addy in my sig.

Your set is missing horizontal sync in this pic.

What you're describing in terms of timing of the problem and its intermittancy indicates it's still thermally related, so yes I would expect it to have come from the PS board not being completely resoldered. Perhaps this is an unusual wrinkle because we have little experience with what happens over time when not all the joints are resoldered. The normal thing on a virgin aged but completely unsoldered board is for the worst ones to go bad first, but who knows when you simply do some of them and not all? The whole resoldering op becomes a wild card.

Send me the board, I really don't need the pic, as I am sure of what I'll see. But send it along if you'd like.

Hopefully your set is working properly upon turnon from dead cold, which is what I require if you are going to be sending me a board. I need a firm baseline of your set working fine from dead cold, and only having problems after the set warms up. If any bad thing has gone permanent, something downline from the PS board has usually been damaged and we have to go to the next level of troubleshooting.

AND DON'T USE YOUR SET FOR VIEWING UNTIL THIS HAS BEEN HANDLED PROPERLY. Whatever is causing this to happen is just one of many possibilities, if your board was not totally resoldered at the time. DO NOT allow it back to normal operating temp while in this compromised condition, showing evidence of intermittent connections.

You may have a major spike ready to happen within the next viewing period, that could damage your set very expensively, possibly totalling it on you.

:eek:

UNPLUG YOUR SET until this has been handled adequately.


b

Mr. Bob,
The set was good when I turned it on again after cold dead, but I unplugged it within 20 seconds. I have read your previous thread and had some idea how the bd should be packed, big bubble wrap on it, 15x15x22 oversized box (I will try see if I can get it in ups or post office), and lay it slanted. Can you email me back (john.contact@gmail.com) the shipping address? I’m in Boston, I know I have to wait for few hours for LA time. I will wait till get your feed back and start disassemble the ps bd. Looking forward to hear you soon.

John

Mr. Bob,
The set was good when I turned it on again after cold dead, but I unplugged it within 20 seconds. I have read your previous thread and had some idea how the bd should be packed, big bubble wrap on it, 15x15x22 oversized box (I will try see if I can get it in ups or post office), and lay it slanted. Can you email me back (john.contact@gmail.com) the shipping address? I’m in Boston, I know I have to wait for few hours for LA time. I will wait till get your feed back and start disassemble the ps bd. Looking forward to hear you soon.

John

Be sure to leave the frame attached to it for support, you really only need to remove one screw to remove the PS board (plus the wiring connectors).

Be sure to leave the frame attached to it for support, you really only need to remove one screw to remove the PS board (plus the wiring connectors).

I have few pictures they were taken 3 years ago, may be you can point out which the one screw and frame. You might think I did it before why cannot do it now. I just want do it right.http://www.flickr.com/photos/yujiang/3930829559/sizes/l/[IMG]

Be sure to leave the frame attached to it for support, you really only need to remove one screw to remove the PS board (plus the wiring connectors).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/yujiang/3930829559/

Be sure to leave the frame attached to it for support, you really only need to remove one screw to remove the PS board (plus the wiring connectors).

The picture couldn't show up, don't know why.

Be sure to leave the frame attached to it for support, you really only need to remove one screw to remove the PS board (plus the wiring connectors).
Try it one more time.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/yujiang/3930829559/

John

Be sure to leave the frame attached to it for support, you really only need to remove one screw to remove the PS board (plus the wiring connectors).

Still didn't work.

The picture couldn't show up, don't know why.

You have to have a host to host the pic, I use Webshots, its free.

I'll see if I can find a pic of the one screw, going from memory its in the lower left quadrant of the board as you look from behind the TV. After removing that screw and all the connections the whole board and frame slides up and off.

I think its in this hole. Also I now see a few screws have to be removed to get the wiring loop thingys off too.

http://inlinethumb25.webshots.com/11736/2260352890042310107S600x600Q85.jpg (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2260352890042310107QOSICR)

I think its in this hole. Also I now see a few screws have to be removed to get the wiring loop thingys off too.

http://inlinethumb25.webshots.com/11736/2260352890042310107S600x600Q85.jpg (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2260352890042310107QOSICR)

Thanks! Yes, I see the screw in side. Do you what others have to be removed? Sorry for asking too much...

Thanks! Yes, I see the screw in side. Do you what others have to be removed? Sorry for asking too much...

Well, right by that one screw for the frame is a screw that holds the loop thingy for the main power cord into the board, that has to be removed plus IIRC there is one ground wire screwed to the frame on the left side (don't forget to put that back on later!)

Yeah you can see the grounding wire and screw in this pic, it looks like there might be another one at the top left too:

http://inlinethumb36.webshots.com/44387/2407186950042310107S600x600Q85.jpg (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2407186950042310107igkaKx)

Yeah you can see the grounding wire and screw in this pic, it looks like there might be another one at the top left too:

http://inlinethumb36.webshots.com/44387/2407186950042310107S600x600Q85.jpg (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2407186950042310107igkaKx)
I removed 4 screws, 1 on the top and 1 on the bottom of left side with black wire, 1 in the hole and 1 with the loop for power cord, but the frame is pretty tight bond to the back, it seems is glued to the back.

John, I just sent you the info you need by email, to the email addy you provided.


Once the screws you have already removed are outa there, and the rest of the screws stay, keeping the board secured to its metal frame for shipping solidity, just pull upward on the whole board and it will come up and fall into your hands. It's on slots mounted to the wood.

Don't take those out, leave them there. Once the board is free, guide it out thru the wiring and pack it in the big bubble wrap, not the small stuff. And follow the directions I just sent to you.

Great job, and great pix! They should help lots of people on this thread.

And thanks, mt, for chiming in -

;)

b

Mr. Bob,
I have read your previous thread and had some idea how the bd should be packed, big bubble wrap on it, 15x15x22 oversized box (I will try see if I can get it in ups or post office), and lay it slanted. John

Actually it's UPS or Fedex.

USPS has limits I don't like - like not leaving a receipt when they take a box away - seems none of them do - requiring me to wait in line if I want to take it down to them. Otherwise it could disappear from my front porch once I set it out there and there would be no proof USPS got it. I live in a good neighborhood, and always get boxes left for me, but that outgoing box status with no evidence of pickup is just one more needless worry I'd rather not have on my mind.

So I prefer to take returning boards down there and drop them off myself.

UPS and Fedex rarely have the kind of lines I always find at the post office. And they are not far away.

DHL isn't even in the running anymore, they stopped doing consumer deliveries and pickups.

So UPS and Fedex, please -


b

Yeah you can see the grounding wire and screw in this pic, it looks like there might be another one at the top left too:

http://inlinethumb36.webshots.com/44387/2407186950042310107S600x600Q85.jpg (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2407186950042310107igkaKx)

Any other screws?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/yujiang/3931055731/

Actually it's UPS or Fedex.

USPS has limits I don't like - like not leaving a receipt when they take a box away - seems none of them do - requiring me to wait in line if I want to take it down to them. Otherwise it could disappear from my front porch once I set it out there and there would be no proof USPS got it. I live in a good neighborhood, and always get boxes left for me, but that outgoing box status with no evidence of pickup is just one more needless worry I'd rather not have on my mind.

So I prefer to take returning boards down there and drop them off myself.

UPS and Fedex rarely have the kind of lines I always find at the post office. And they are not far away.

DHL isn't even in the running anymore, they stopped doing consumer deliveries and pickups.

So UPS and Fedex, please -


b

Bob,
I got your email, will follow your instruction. But after I removed 4 screws as mt said, the bd still couldn't removed. Any thing else I'm missing?

Bob,
I got your email, will follow your instruction. But after I removed 4 screws as mt said, the bd still couldn't removed. Any thing else I'm missing?

I have some problem for attaching picture in here so I sent a picture by email, hope you can tell me what should I do next.

mt, thanks for previous guidance, any idea why the bd still so tight? I wish you can see the picture too.

The whole board should slide up about 1/4" to 1/2", then out. Is it moving up at all?

The whole board should slide up about 1/4" to 1/2", then out. Is it moving up at all?

Got it, a little trick;). Thanks so much! Now is time for packing:)

Yes, it's mounted on slots. DON'T remove THOSE screws, the big ones the slots mount onto! Once the board has been removed you're home free and can ship it.

Glad you gave it that one last test to make sure it's turning on properly from dead cold. You said you did, and then turned it off after 20 seconds.

It should be emminently ready for shipping now.


b

Yes, it's mounted on slots. DON'T remove THOSE screws, the big ones the slots mount onto! Once the board has been removed you're home free and can ship it.

Glad you gave it that one last test to make sure it's turning on properly from dead cold. You said you did, and then turned it off after 20 seconds.

It should be emminently ready for shipping now.


b

Bob, the bd is on the way to you shipped next day air by UPS, just sent a email to you, check the details in there.

Great, I'll be watching for it -

b

Alright. I've read where Mr. Bob talks about the importance of cleaning the optics, I've read his guide on page 28(?) of this thread in terms of using Sprayaway and paper towels. But before I even go there, I need to know how to get in the front of the TV!!

http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy234/shutyertrap/TVscrews.jpg

Am I to remove the actual screen? If so, is it just the screws where the yellow arrows are pointing that I need to remove?

Or am I to remove the screws where the red arrows are pointing?

Since I don't have the service manual for the 510, I don't really wanna just start unscrewing things willy nilly. Especially when there's that high voltage sticker right there!

Some more questions (and maybe you guys can just provide the answers before I even need to ask them)...

--Where do I get the Sprayaway cleaner? I live in SoCal, can I just get it at a Home Depot or Lowes, or is there a specific store. I have some foaming glass cleaner they sell at Costco, but it tends to run as well as foam.

--Anyone have a diagram or photos of taking the guns apart for getting at the four lenses? What screws I'll need to undo, and any pitfalls awaiting me?

--I'm assuming this is a yes also, but I'm asking anyways...do I need to clean the mirror since I'm doing the guns? If so, do I use the Sprayaway on that too, or do I need to use a Windex type product?

--When wiping the lenses (in one direction, with a rolling motion, yeah I got it!) is the paper towel supposed to be dry or do you pre-wet it?

Those are the questions I immediately have. As you can guess, I've never opened this set up in the 9 years I've owned it. Sad I know, but I didn't come across this forum until just this year, and I didn't know any better!

Appreciate the help.

Chris

Well the red screws have nothing to do with the screen. IIRC the yellow ones do though.

I got my Sprayway at a Walmart Supercenter. :D

Not sure where you got 4 lenses. I count 9 lenses plus the mirror. I used Sprayway on the mirror too.

There is the top lens on each gun, the bottom lens on each gun, and the coolant cover below the lenses on each gun. 3 guns x 3 = 9 There are 4 screws that hold each lens barrel to each gun/coolant cover.

The towel is dry but the lens is wet.

Good luck.

...Since I don't have the service manual for the 510...

Why not? Its free here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16543391&postcount=1815

Thank Zodiac

Thank you thank you thank you!:D

And big thank you to Zodiac for posting it. Can't believe I missed that post, especially since about a month ago I was scouring the net for the manual (but being a cheap bastard) that I didn't have to pay for.

Here's hoping I don't get myself into to much trouble...

--Anyone have a diagram or photos of taking the guns apart for getting at the four lenses? What screws I'll need to undo, and any pitfalls awaiting me?

--I'm assuming this is a yes also, but I'm asking anyways...do I need to clean the mirror since I'm doing the guns? If so, do I use the Sprayaway on that too, or do I need to use a Windex type product?



Here's 3 of the 4 screws to remove each lens barrel (one at each corner).

http://inlinethumb64.webshots.com/42111/2327907600042310107S600x600Q85.jpg (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2327907600042310107UBerus)

Some pit falls:

1) Getting mosture into the lens barrel, between the lenses (it helps if you hold the barrel up so the cleaner doesn't run into it)

2) Scratching the lenses. I would not rub a dry towel on dry lens (especially a paper towel).

3) Stripping the screws

4) Dropping the lens barrel or dropping something on it (like a screwdriver)

5) Put each lens barrel back in the same spot (doing them one at a time eliminates that pitfall), facing the same direction (not rotated 180* off)

You will need to redo the convergence after doing a deep cleaning.

No, do NOT use Windex, or any other cleaner with ammonia on an aluminum surface mirror. Sprayway is good.

More on cleaning optics: http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/learnabout/generaltips/screenoptics/cleaningtheoptics.html

Okay, so yes to the yellow arrows pointing to the 4 screws for removing the screen. Looking at the exploded diagram in the manual, is it then just a matter of lifting up on the screen? Looks like its sitting on a lip or something.

Understand the need to redo the convergence, but I won't need to deal with refocusing the lenses will I? With the convergence, is it just the standard blue and red, or will I need to get at the green through the service menu too?

Curious about the focus, cause the corners of my set have never been that sharp. When I first got the set and had an ISF guy calibrate it, he mentioned that he couldn't get the corners sharp, but then he didn't open up the set either. Then I just read Mr Bob saying that most of the Elites OOB needed some focusing. All I know is that whenever I've done some touch up on the convergence, the blue and red are always bending away from each other in at least two of the corners, and it's a matter of settling for what's least offensive, not perfect.

I'll go look for the Spraway at *shudder* Wal-Mart today (hate that store, but sometimes ya gotta go. Maybe I'll check Target first :rolleyes:).

I just did the standard single & multipoint convergence in the user menu.

The focusing should stay the same unless the wing nut is loose or something. If you want it better, now would be a good time to do it because it will also throw the convergence off. Its pretty easy to do the manual focusing using the cantilever method Mr. Bob talks about.

The screen removal should be obvious once you start doing it. After the frame (trim) is removed there are 3 brackets at the top and one on each side. Most of the screws holding those brackets on just have to be loosened slightly and the bracket slides over and off. There is one or 2 screws that have to come completely out of the brackets. You will also want to completely remove the screws on the side brackets of you do the cantilever method of focusing, so that you don't scratch the screen as you slide it to the side. Don't use any wet cleaning method on the screen, or so I've heard.

Why not? Its free here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16543391&postcount=1815

Thank Zodiac

I just tried to get the serv man'l and was spun round and round and round again. Never did get access to it, tho I now have a very pretty account there...

:confused:


b

Here's 3 of the 4 screws to remove each lens barrel (one at each corner).

http://inlinethumb64.webshots.com/42111/2327907600042310107S600x600Q85.jpg (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2327907600042310107UBerus)

Some pit falls:

1) Getting mosture into the lens barrel, between the lenses (it helps if you hold the barrel up so the cleaner doesn't run into it)

If you're doing the cleaning with the lenses in place with a liquid cleaner, be sure to immediately put a paper towel on the bottommost edge of the lens inside the edge, to catch any runoff before it can go inside and fog up the inner lenses. Sprayway's foam has no such worries as long as you don't keep it there for a long time. 1 minute max. The heat of the sys will cause anything left there longer to start to dry out.

I find it easier to clean the lens tops with them in place, rather than being held in the air. Lens bottoms, hold them in the air, upside down.


2) Scratching the lenses. I would not rub a dry towel on dry lens (especially a paper towel).

Ditto, and in spades! Nor a microfibre cloth or anything else dry. NO dry method is safe for plastic lenses.


3) Stripping the screws

4) Dropping the lens barrel or dropping something on it (like a screwdriver)

5) Put each lens barrel back in the same spot (doing them one at a time eliminates that pitfall), facing the same direction (not rotated 180* off)

Or 90* off.


You will need to redo the convergence after doing a deep cleaning.

Only the static/crosshairs. The dynamic won't need any great deal of specific attention just because of the lens removal, but it may need some, so it's best to do the removal etc BEFORE redoing your convergence to a high precision degree, either way. After years of drift, removing and reinstalling the lenses really only requires the crosshairs be redone, there won't be enough change in the high precision to worry about the dynamic just because of that, since the original conv will have become so sloppy by then anyway.

No, do NOT use Windex, or any other cleaner with ammonia on an aluminum surface mirror. Sprayway is good.

Windex WITHOUT ammonia is also good, as is Glass Plus.

More on cleaning optics: http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/learnabout/generaltips/screenoptics/cleaningtheoptics.html

I just tried to get the serv man'l and was spun round and round and round again. Never did get access to it, tho I now have a very pretty account there...

:confused:


b

Yeah, its not working for me now either. :confused:

I was just about to create an account when I noticed the 'download now' button that had suddenly appeared on the left hand side of the screen. Whammo, instant download!

Went to check the cleaning supplies the wife has, and whaddya know, there's a can of Sprayway in there! Nice.

Just to be clear...

Spray the cleaner directly on the lens, and then let it sit for what, 20-40 seconds? Then use a dry paper towel and drag towards me in one motion. Do I apply much pressure, or just use the weight of my hand? After that initial wipe, will I need to apply more cleaner and do another go around?

Also wondering if I can use Kimwipes, which is what we use to clean filters and lenses for motion picture cameras. It's funny, cause when cleaning the camera lenses, I was always taught (and this came from the techs at Panavision) to start in the middle of the lense and spiral out to the edges. Granted, these are glass lenses, so that probably makes all the difference. I think that's why I'm asking so many questions, cause I've got a set of habits that I want to apply here cause it seems like the same kind of thing, yet I know isn't.

Anyways, appreciate the info Mr Bob and MT Goat, keep it comin'!

Spray directly on the lens, guarding against runoff by absorbing it at the lowermost edge. Allow the wetness to stay on the lens for 10-15 seconds, to reach under the gritty particulates and suspend them in liquid/foam. Then use a crumpled up dry paper towel, which of course gets wet when you apply it to the wetted lens.

Use a gentle streetsweeping motion, lifting the grit UP and away from the lens surface as you go towards yourself. Use only enough force for firm contact, no more, no less. Each swipe will come up with the lens dry in that area at the end of the swipe. 3 swipes per lens - left middle and right.

Do it a second time if there are still swirls. I'd stop there. Better to leave a little on there than scratch something indelibly.

I'm not experienced with Kimwipes -


b

I'm not experienced with Kimwipes -





As far as for something to use in delicate cleaning applications. It looks like they might be better for cleaning the optics than paper towels are.
I don't see any mention of them having any sort of chemical treating, they are soft, absorbent and extra low lint.

http://www.kcprofessional.com/us/product-details.asp?prd_id=34705

" KIMTECH SCIENCE* KIMWIPES* Delicate Task Wiper, 2-ply, offers a unique combination of low-lint tissue softness and multi-ply absorbency that's perfect for a multitude of delicate tasks.

* Multi-ply absorbency, wipes up liquid and dust
* Wipes clean - extra low-lint and extractable performance
* One-at-a-time dispensing"


And they are also not that expensive, as it looks like you can get them for under $10 for a box.

:)Fixed my daughter's Pro-Elite-510 tonight,had the famous power problem. I did my research on this forum and located the bad solder joints and did the entire power board. Thank you to every one for the invaluable information here.
The connection point that was the worst,one pin at E3 had come disconnected altogether. I would suppose that was the major area. The TV comes in great,much better than some of them in the stores today.

Y'oughta see what she's capable of fully tricked out.

;)


b

As far as for something to use in delicate cleaning applications. It looks like they might be better for cleaning the optics than paper towels are.
I don't see any mention of them having any sort of chemical treating, they are soft, absorbent and extra low lint.

http://www.kcprofessional.com/us/product-details.asp?prd_id=34705

" KIMTECH SCIENCE* KIMWIPES* Delicate Task Wiper, 2-ply, offers a unique combination of low-lint tissue softness and multi-ply absorbency that's perfect for a multitude of delicate tasks.

* Multi-ply absorbency, wipes up liquid and dust
* Wipes clean - extra low-lint and extractable performance
* One-at-a-time dispensing"


And they are also not that expensive, as it looks like you can get them for under $10 for a box.

Tried to get some today, the closest outlet is in Eugene Oregon, and they wanted over $200 for something like 18 cases, as it is a special order.

Think I'll stick with the tried and true...

:o

b

Hi Bob, quick question for you or any one who can offer some help. I have a Pioneer elite pro 520 that is in great working shape.
A few days ago I decided to give the service menu a go and adjust the overscan problem I get while watching dvd's or playing my 360. I wrote down my starting points incase I had to abort and soon noticed that when I had the picture where it needed to be to fit the frame, the convergence was out of wack. Without a service manual I didn't want to get started in that whole ordeal so I reset the horizontal and vertical to stock settings.
After doing so I noticed the picture is now darker than it once was. I have to adjust the brightness much higher than normal to get a watchable picture on certain games or programs. Colors are all true as they have always been but the black level seems to be somehow set very low.
Any idea what could cause this or what service code I could tinker with on my settings to correct this.
Any help would be much appreciated.

Jason

A few days ago I decided to give the service menu a go... Without a service manual I didn't want to get started in that whole ordeal...
Any idea ... what service code I could tinker with on my settings to correct this.
Any help would be much appreciated.

Jason

Jason, do not fool around in service mode without the service manual. It's not a service "menu"; there is no menu. It is truly opaque. Even with the service manual, it's not easy to navigate. You need the manual just to begin to understand what the remote's buttons do in service mode.

You can buy the paper manual from Pioneer (recommended; it's thick) or download a bootleg copy from the 'net (not recommended; it's copyrighted). Just don't leave home without it.

Thanks for the tip bweissman. I'm planning on having a pro stop buy and finally get this overscan problem straightened out and hopefully get this TV calibrated to it's true potential. I just hope the typical TV repair man has the knowledge to tackle the job.
I want to hang on to this TV for as long a possible before going the plasma route.

Its hard enough to figure out the service mode WITH the service manual, I'd never go in there without it.

Its been said by Mr Bob that the easiest way to reduce overscan is the shimming mod.

Tried to get some today, the closest outlet is in Eugene Oregon, and they wanted over $200 for something like 18 cases, as it is a special order.



There are also sellers on Amazon that have them if you only want to buy just one box, and for under $10.

Without a service manual I didn't want to get started in that whole ordeal so I reset the horizontal and vertical to stock settings.

You may want to at least D/L the service manual for the x10 series sets, most of the adjustment information should be the same as for the x20 series. And if nothing else, it's certainly a LOT better, than having no service manual at all!

http://www.mediafire.com/file/320o0qiyzmy

Thankyou for the link John....I appreciate it.

Cleaned my optics yesterday for the first time ever on my 510. Heart was pounding the whole time cause I didn't wanna screw up anything! Anyways, thanks to you guys and the service manual that was made available, I never felt like I was outta my league.

Things that surprised me...

--My mirror wasn't dusty at all. Cleaned it anyway, but despite shining the flashlight on it and giving the finger rub, it was pretty clean.

--I was warned about dropping screws, and I didn't. But there was this little rod coming between the red and green guns the made removing and replacing the back corner screws of those guns a nerve racking experience for me. Normally I'd use a magnetic tipped screw driver, but I erred on the side of caution knowing there's magnates in the TV. You guys can tell me if I was being silly or not.

--Removed the lens pack and wasn't expecting the almost cup like final lense. Debated for a few minutes whether I was supposed to be cleaning it or not (it needed it) cause I don't recall anyone mentioning a lens of that deep a concave. Then I fretted about how much spray to use. Might have used a little too little on that first one, but the rest of them I foamed up pretty good.

Hard for me to judge how well I did with the physical clean. I saw streeks and things that on a film camera lens I'd have gone to town on, but here I just worried I'd scratch things.

Convergence went well. Never knew the proper way of doing it till I read the service manual, breaking the screen up into quadrants, then color, and ONLY doing verticals, then doing horizontals. Made it much easier, and more accurate then I've ever been. Also, doing it with before putting back on the anti glare screen, man that saved my eyes!

So I snapped some before and after pics using everyone's favorite Fifth Element scene...

http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy234/shutyertrap/TVv1.jpg

My black level was at 10, I turned it back down to 0, which was where it was at when first calibrated 9 years ago. Debating whether that's too dark or not.

http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy234/shutyertrap/TVv2.jpg

I didn't time code for exact screen shots, so that might explain the sudden appearance of her right eyeball, but I love how inky the blacks are again in general.

http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy234/shutyertrap/TVv3.jpg

Here's where I'm really not sure about the black level. Top pic, you can see her face and more white of her outfit. Bottom the face is not really visible, and the white is fairly shadowed (again this might be due to them not being exactly the same grab), but it's so much crisper now. In the below pic it's a case of seeing the policeman's eyes or not. When in motion I didn't have a problem with it, so I don't know.

http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy234/shutyertrap/TVv4.jpg

This one illustrates one of the things that really made me wanna clean the optics. See how the bright white light halos in the top pic? I cropped it out of the photo, but it was haloing into the letterboxing! Whenever there'd be a scene with someone standing in front of a bright window, they'd just be a silhouette. Working in the camera department, I know most cinematographers would have exposed for this. So I figured it was the dust on the lens causing this. Happy to see that with the cleaning, no more halo!

Little bummed that I didn't get rid of this small blemish that is visible in the lower portion of my screen (no pic), as it is now obvious it's not any of the lenses. Must be on one of the mirrors underneath somewhere. I'm not going there! Also, I think I've now made the minor screen burn in I have from stupidly watching things in 4:3 even more prominent. It's really only visible with almost white screens, but more so now. Oh well, what am I gonna do. I can live with it.

Think I'll save up for the HDFury2 over there at Monoprice now that I have a PS3, and then think about forking over the bucks for a proper calibration again. Then again, the overscan is driving me nuts these days too...:confused:

I'm very much in the same situation you are shutyertrap. I had my set calibrated several years ago but I was never fully happy with the result. I tinkered with the adjustment box inside the tv and have things looking much better...stunning really, although the blacks seem a tad too dark.

I had the service Tech out today to help with my overscan issues and from what he explained, it's a major undertaking with these sets. Not only did he want to charge me 500.00, he also needs to have the entire set hauled into his shop. The day this set leaves my house is the day it's gone for good. Can't even begin to imagine the hassle of loading this beast in my truck without damaging the hell out of the casing.

Unless I get a magical visit from mr. Bob, I'd say this is as good as it gets untill I decide to make the jump to flat panels. I love this set to death and hate the thought of seeing it retire early but the overscan issue is starting to get to me.

How to take care of overscan: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1129740

You may want to at least D/L the service manual for the x10 series sets, most of the adjustment information should be the same as for the x20 series. And if nothing else, it's certainly a LOT better, than having no service manual at all!

http://www.mediafire.com/file/320o0qiyzmy

Will this manual also work for the 710? It lists the 510 and 610 but not the 710. Is there much difference?

Thanks
Zip

Hi Bob, quick question for you or any one who can offer some help. I have a Pioneer elite pro 520 that is in great working shape.
A few days ago I decided to give the service menu a go and adjust the overscan problem I get while watching dvd's or playing my 360. I wrote down my starting points incase I had to abort and soon noticed that when I had the picture where it needed to be to fit the frame, the convergence was out of wack. Without a service manual I didn't want to get started in that whole ordeal so I reset the horizontal and vertical to stock settings.
After doing so I noticed the picture is now darker than it once was. I have to adjust the brightness much higher than normal to get a watchable picture on certain games or programs. Colors are all true as they have always been but the black level seems to be somehow set very low.
Any idea what could cause this or what service code I could tinker with on my settings to correct this.
Any help would be much appreciated.

Jason

Anytime you come back out of sm the User settings auto revert back to midpoint. At your Elite set's age the pic will not only be dirty as all getout, but dim as well, needing the realignment of the Screen controls I perform in my calibrations when needed - which is at all times on these x10 Elites.

So you were prolly running your Black Level at plus 12-15 before, and now it's back to 0, which is way too low at your set's age without the Screen trimpot realignment. It takes a special sequence of registers to get the brightness changed, and unless you did that, your sm br will not have changed.

I can coach you in that realignment over the phone if you wish.


b

Thanks for the tip bweissman. I'm planning on having a pro stop buy and finally get this overscan problem straightened out and hopefully get this TV calibrated to it's true potential. I just hope the typical TV repair man has the knowledge to tackle the job.
I want to hang on to this TV for as long a possible before going the plasma route.


Do NOT go with the typical repairman! The net is rife with horror stories of what happens when you do that. If you do and have to be bailed out, it's much more expensive to first undo the damage they have done and start over, than to simply have a CRT grade calibrator do it from scratch OOB.

There are very few CRT capable calibrators left, most have moved on to the much easier to do - and less time consuming - flat panels to calibrate.

I am one of the few left who has dedicated himself to carrying on CRT's blazing tradition till there are no more of them. Please consider flying me in or find someone else to fly in, WHO IS TRULY QUALIFIED TO CALIBRATE THEM. The learning curve on them is immense, and most repair techs have their hands full just doing repairs, have no time nor patience for that CRT learning curve, where the image STRUCTURE is handled. I and and an even smaller number of select calibrators - count them prolly on one hand - are the only ones who do both repair and calibration.

Chances are you'll have to fly somebody in, one way or the other.


B

Will this manual also work for the 710? It lists the 510 and 610 but not the 710. Is there much difference?

Thanks
Zip

Only differences will be in the sizes of the guns, lenses, mirrors and screens. The electronics and sms are the same for all 3 sizes.

b

Thanks for the info Bob...I may take you up on that phone consultation. I wish I'd known about the factory reset when you enter the service menu. I'd never have tinkered with it if I knew.
You are correct about the CRT based knowledge of the typical TV repair man. I knew I was in trouble 5 min. in with this guy. He offered no helpfull insite and basically was trying to push me to upgrade with a newer (flatter) model.
$45.00 house call for basically nothing.

Thanks too for the link Mt-goat. Interesting stuff.

Just sent an email to you.

J

b

Sorry, email for Bob.

J

I wish I'd known about the factory reset when you enter the service menu. I'd never have tinkered with it if I knew.


Actually it just resets the USER settings to OOB, which is midpoint on all bargraphs. Not a factory reset, tho there may be one in there. Personally if there is, I don't want to know how to spring it!

:p


b

Hi everyone,

I'm a proud and frustrated owner of the 710. After trying all sorts of voodoo magic short of sacrificing a goat, I finally stumbled across this forum and was relieved to find others too had the blue flicker + pop/shutoff problem.

As I understand it, in 90% of the cases, all I need to do is re-solder the PS board and the problem will go away. I'd like to, if possible, resolve the situation myself (can't afford to lose this TV, or pay for repair services at this point).

Thing is, I have no soldering experience, but I have been looking up guides/video tutorials. The other problem is, I'm completely lost as to what I'm looking for even after I remove the PS board. I've seen pictures in this thread of the board and its removal, but I'm not sure what I should be trying to resolder. Anyone that can point me in the right direction? (I'm horrible at visualizing, so pictures would be a big help).

Welcome Richard!

I don't know what others will say, but I'll tell you as another proud 710 owner - I know how much this beauty cost me in the beginning. A good soldering job is only a flash in the pan compared to having to purchase another set! I would not begin my soldering career on this set. And I consider myself handy. Pay someone who knows what they are doing.

Thing is, I have no soldering experience, but I have been looking up guides/video tutorials. The other problem is, I'm completely lost as to what I'm looking for even after I remove the PS board. I've seen pictures in this thread of the board and its removal, but I'm not sure what I should be trying to resolder. Anyone that can point me in the right direction? (I'm horrible at visualizing, so pictures would be a big help).


The power supply board in these Pioneer sets, or any other circuit board for that matter. Is NOT the kind of thing you want to try and learn how to solder on! Very sloppy work or overheating the parts while trying to solder them has the potential to kill the boards and also make them if not unfixable, at the least very expensive to have someone else take over and try and correct any gross errors that were made in trying to solder it.

Again! If you have no experience at all in soldering circuit boards, these boards are NOT the things to be trying to learn on! But if you still want to try doing it yourself, find some junk circuit boards to practice on first! But for someone with no soldering experience at all, the best bet is, take out the board yourself, and have someone else who has experience in soldering printed circuit boards do the actual re-soldering on it.

Not only that, but what happens when you accidentally leave a solder bridge in there that you couldn't see, and you blow your set up (techspeak, of course... :rolleyes:) FAR too much is riding on this one op to allow it to be done by anyone unqualified to get it done right. Stop messing around with DIYer consciousness on something like this. Don't even THINK of resoldering this board yourself if you've never soldered before. One false move and your entire set could be toast.

I have been saying for years on this thread, don't try this if you're an amateur. ONLY qualified experienced professionals should attempt this repair, and most qualified locals only resolder the presently relevant points, leaving tons of other points to go bad later. The points they resolder stay because they did a good job on them, but other points go out later and you're back where you started. I have personally resoldered many boards sent to me in this condition, where the boards treated by local repair personnel worked fine for a couple of months and then went bad again. I see the meager number of excellently done solder joints that made the set work again, and know exactly why it didn't last - 99% of the solder conns on that board need it, not 10%. Nor 20%, nor even 85%. 99%, including 100% of the joints in the original defective solder flow op which have not been resoldered yet except for heat sinks and test points.

If left untended these points eventually cause a hinky connection in just the wrong place and cause a lightning bolt to be sent down into the rest of your set. That's what spikes are, and line conditioners are dedicated to keeping them away. No line conditioner can protect you from spikes sent out by the power supply board itself tho, which is far downline from the conditioner and takes over where the conditioner leaves off. There is no protection from spikes PRODUCED by the PS board. The rest of your set, fed completely - and directly - by the PS board, is open and completely vulnerable to anything sent out by the PS board, including spikes caused by intermittent connections.

These are tremendously sophisticated sets, and were not designed to be operated on poorly connected, intermittent power supplies that cause huge spikes when the connections start to go hinky. They were designed to be operated on rock solid power supplies, that never waver and never vary. Even using your set in the condition you've described is literally playing Russian Roulette with it. ANY set in this condition needs to be turned off immediately if not sooner, and not allowed to warm up to cruising temp again AT ALL until this instability situation has been totally remedied. Not partially. Totally.

There is no substitute for getting the resolder op done correctly, either by yourself if you are a professional grade solderer, or by a local tech if he will take direction on EXACTLY how and how much needs to be done, or by me. If you want it done right, send it to me and I'll take care of it. My boards don't go out again later. Many on this thread have sent their boards to me, and they are very happy campers right now.


b

Great, I'll be watching for it -

b

Bob,
I put the PS bd back to my 510-HD within 30min, watched TV for 4h last night and 1h this morning. The set had no problem at all. I guess it is no surprise for you, just add one more success in your record:rolleyes:. I had the faith too but little bit concern the twisted picture (‘missing horizontal sync’ as you diagnosed) which I haven’t see it before in the forum, and afraid it could be something else. Bob, it is no doubt you are the master for those set, not saying this is your only fieldthough:o. Now I think I will be worry free at least for few years, and anything happed it would be somewhere else, not the bd for sure. And I know there are someone I can always count on, thank you Bob and mt_goat! You guys rock:)

John

Sorry, email for Bob.

J

Please ID yourself on the email you sent. I have no idea who you are and have no idea whether any of the emails I HAVE received mighta been from someone who MIGHT be you! The initials JCBM and name John just don't give me much to go on...

:confused:


b

Bob,
I put the PS bd back to my 510-HD within 30min, watched TV for 4h last night and 1h this morning. The set had no problem at all. I guess it is no surprise for you, just add one more success in your record:rolleyes:. I had the faith too but little bit concern the twisted picture (‘missing horizontal sync’ as you diagnosed) which I haven’t see it before in the forum, and afraid it could be something else. Bob, it is no doubt you are the master for those set, not saying this is your only fieldthough:o. Now I think I will be worry free at least for few years, and anything happed it would be somewhere else, not the bd for sure. And I know there are someone I can always count on, thank you Bob and mt_goat! You guys rock:)

John

Glad I could help. Still not sure exactly who you are and what the sit is/was or which listing in my owner's book will turn out to be you, but glad I could help anyway!

:o

b

Glad I could help. Still not sure exactly who you are and what the sit is/was or which listing in my owner's book will turn out to be you, but glad I could help anyway!

:o

b

Bob,
I'm the one who sent the bd to you for re-solder 2 weeks ago. You did it and sent back to me yesterday. If you check the previous forum back to page 67 #1998 with the ID JCBM, you will see all the talks back and forth that how I got my problem and how you guys (you and mt_goat) instructed my got the bd out...

Sorry for the confusion and thanks again for all the help!


:)

John

:)

Again, you did quite a service for us by posting your pic of that sideways picture, those slanted lines. First time I remember seeing it here on this thread. Good to know all it takes to cure that is the resolder op.

;)

b

I decided to try my hand at this repair job after all. Thanks to the information littered throughout this epic thread (and some youtube tutorials on soldering), I managed to go through and resolder the PS board on my 710. I am happy to report that my 710 appears to be alive and well, without any of the blue flicker/pop/screen shutdown that plagued it before.

Admittedly, this should have been left to a professional (or at least someone with soldering experience), but if you're low on cash, 20 dollars on soldering gear and a few hours of your time might be the ticket to salvation ... or tanking the whole thing altogether. Beginner's luck in my case, I guess.

It's a very satisfying experience if you're feeling adventurous.

So Bob, when will you be venturing south to Los Angeles next?

Our Fire Staion was given an 510HD by someone who "upgraded to LCD". It came without a remote and badly in need of calibration and even more importantly, of your handiwork. During the next few days I'll be reading all of this thread in hopes I can try a little DIY. But if you were ever in the area...

Fly me in. It's cheap, between LAX and OAK. Love to come down and seeya -

;)

b

PS -

You'll need the official remote to do any calibration on it. Not some universal, the real thing. If you can't score one, you need to at least borrow one from someone, for my trip to be worthwhile -

Cleaned my optics yesterday for the first time ever on my 510. Heart was pounding the whole time cause I didn't wanna screw up anything! Anyways, thanks to you guys and the service manual that was made available, I never felt like I was outta my league.

Things that surprised me...

--Removed the lens pack and wasn't expecting the almost cup like final lense. Debated for a few minutes whether I was supposed to be cleaning it or not (it needed it) cause I don't recall anyone mentioning a lens of that deep a concave. Then I fretted about how much spray to use. Might have used a little too little on that first one, but the rest of them I foamed up pretty good.

Then again, the overscan is driving me nuts these days too...:confused:


Thanks for sharing your experience. When you cleaned your lenses did you take the lens barrel apart and clean each of the lenses, or did you just remove the lens pack for the base and clean the top and bottom lenses ?

When I last looked at my lenses I noticed the red and green lens pack have a piece of silver metallic tape, about a quarter inch wide and 2 inches long going across the lens (should of taken a pic – sorry). Is this tape stripe normal ? I was tempted to disassemble the lens pack/barrel to take it off, but thought I better check here first before I get that involved !

My picture looks fine, except there is a light yellowish/red patch about 3 inches wide near the center of the screen and I’m wondering if its because of this tape ? The patch is not usually noticeable unless the screen is white, so it’s annoying when watching a hockey game (with the white rink).
Appreciate your help and thoughts.

When I last looked at my lenses I noticed the red and green lens pack have a piece of silver metallic tape, about a quarter inch wide and 2 inches long going across the lens (should of taken a pic – sorry). Is this tape stripe normal ? I was tempted to disassemble the lens pack/barrel to take it off, but thought I better check here first before I get that involved !

Yes, the tape is there for a reason. It's kind of a kludge, but it helps compensate for the unavoidable variations in gray scale due to the 3-gun geometry of RPTVs. Search for "lens striping" or, sometimes, "lenstriping (http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/experttips/michaeltlv/lenstriping.html)" to learn more.

My picture looks fine, except there is a light yellowish/red patch about 3 inches wide near the center of the screen and I’m wondering if its because of this tape ? The patch is not usually noticeable unless the screen is white, so it’s annoying when watching a hockey game (with the white rink).

I suppose it's possible that the lens striping tape has gotten moved from where it ought to be, causing this patch. But it could be anything; it's just as likely an insect crawled into one of your guns and died there.

Man...I guess this thread will never die. ;)

So earlier this year I had the power supply problem with my 710. Had it fixed, and all has been well with that (even had Mr. Bob do a calibration on one of his east coast trips).

Well now I'm having a new problem and based on some posts in this thread I'm thinking it might be my convergence board? My convergence seems to go off on a regular basis now. Like, almost daily. It's not a huge difference, but is definitely visible on the white backgrounds (particularly screen graphics). Seems to be more so the red than the blue, but that could just be because the red is more noticeable. And yes, it is after the set has had plenty of warm up time.

So is this most likely the convergence board? Am I doing any further damage to it by continuing to run the set?

I know Mr. Bob has a service where I can send the board to him for repair, but I would rather not have to wait the 2-4 weeks it may take to get it back.

Replace your convergence ICs. No need to replace the whole board.


b

Replace your convergence ICs. No need to replace the whole board.

b

So is that something that I can do myself? And where does one order new IC's? I know from this thread there is mention of using 180s instead of the 110s that are stock for this model.

When I last looked at my lenses I noticed the red and green lens pack have a piece of silver metallic tape, about a quarter inch wide and 2 inches long going across the lens (should of taken a pic – sorry). Is this tape stripe normal ? I was tempted to disassemble the lens pack/barrel to take it off, but thought I better check here first before I get that involved !

My picture looks fine, except there is a light yellowish/red patch about 3 inches wide near the center of the screen and I’m wondering if its because of this tape ? The patch is not usually noticeable unless the screen is white, so it’s annoying when watching a hockey game (with the white rink).
Appreciate your help and thoughts.

I have never seen a 510/610/710 Elite need lenstriping, because it already has it. It's built in, UNDER the lens barrel. What's built in on them works fine! Excellent white field uniformity, OOB. No need to add to it. Adding to it just UNbalances things again, which is probably what's causing your white field NON uniformity.

Putting tape on plastic lens surfaces can RUIN THEM. The adhesive eats into the plastic. Personally I would remove it, but VERY carefully.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.


b

So is that something that I can do myself? And where does one order new IC's? I know from this thread there is mention of using 180s instead of the 110s that are stock for this model.

I order mine from Melissa at Union Electronics. You can also get them at MCM.

Yes, owners do it themselves all the time. Or send the board to me and I'll see that you get the upgraded 180 versions installed. I keep them in stock.


b

I order mine from Melissa at Union Electronics. You can also get them at MCM.

Yes, owners do it themselves all the time. Or send the board to me and I'll see that you get the upgraded 180 versions installed. I keep them in stock.


b
Thanks Bob. Anything else on the board I should consider replacing as a preventative measure? I saw some mention of the resistors?

I have seen resistors fry on other brands, but never on a Pio. We replace the ICs and be done with it, and it always works. I know there is a reference out there to resistors that "drift off value" on these, but I have never seen that. It certainly is not what causes the failures, or we would see those offnesses in the picture as well, in not being able to fully control our points.

Not.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

:p

Just replace the ICs and try it out again. If it works properly, you're done!


b

I have never seen a 510/610/710 Elite need lenstriping, because it already has it. It's built in, UNDER the lens barrel. What's built in on them works fine! Excellent white field uniformity, OOB. No need to add to it. Adding to it just UNbalances things again, which is probably what's causing your white field NON uniformity.

Putting tape on plastic lens surfaces can RUIN THEM. The adhesive eats into the plastic. Personally I would remove it, but VERY carefully.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

b


I'm agree and would like to remove the tape, which must of been factory installed as it on one of lenses inside barrel. I was going to take pics and record disassembling so I can get reassemble them to the same positions. At least they will all get a good cleaning. Anyone taken these apart before and can advise me of some pitfalls before I take these apart ?

Are the mechanical strips in there, each one - of the outer 2 guns - held in on 1 side by a Philips screw? On the other side by being clamped in and held in by that same Philips screw?

(The green one doesn't have metal strips, the red and blue do, each with its Philips screw on the opposing side...)

If so and that's all that's there, don't even go in there except for the cleaning aspect. That's the factory issue. NOT metallic tape, applied onto the lens itself.

If metallic tape, yer on yer own. Good luck and don't screw anything up...

Any lens that you unscrew the 4 screws on and remove, be sure and put it back in EXACTLY the same position as it came out - not 90, 180 or 270 degrees different.

And DON'T touch the wingnuts! Loosening them will allow your mechanical focus to be altered, and there's no indication at this point that altering the position the wingnuts are presently in will improve your focus. Could very well make it worse.

You should definitely send pix up here to this thread before continuing.

BTW, "silver metallic tape" would be reflective, which is the LAST thing we want in there.


b

Are the mechanical strips in there, each one - of the outer 2 guns - held in on 1 side by a Philips screw? On the other side by being clamped in and held in by that same Philips screw?

(The green one doesn't have metal strips, the red and blue do, each with its Philips screw on the opposing side...)

If so and that's all that's there, don't even go in there except for the cleaning aspect. That's the factory issue. NOT metallic tape, applied onto the lens itself.

If metallic tape, yer on yer own. Good luck and don't screw anything up...

Any lens that you unscrew the 4 screws on and remove, be sure and put it back in EXACTLY the same position as it came out - not 90, 180 or 270 degrees different.

And DON'T touch the wingnuts! Loosening them will allow your mechanical focus to be altered, and there's no indication at this point that altering the position the wingnuts are presently in will improve your focus. Could very well make it worse.

You should definitely send pix up here to this thread before continuing.

BTW, "silver metallic tape" would be reflective, which is the LAST thing we want in there.


b



Thanks MR Bob, wise advise as always. I'll take some pics and post.

Also I must be a bad shopper as I cannot find SprayWay cleaner in my area (near Philadelphia). You think the monster cleaner would work just as well, It's what I've used on screens with good results.

http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=1562

NO!

That formulation was created for glossy and flat-finish direct view plastic screens like the fronts of LCDs in laptops, and flat panels. It works well for such things. NOT for our sets.

In CRT RPTV tech we NEVER touch the plastic viewscreens unless absolutely necessary. If left alone they never need any more than a light dusting with a clean dry terrycloth towel IF NECESSARY - if dust is on them - in the direction of the vertical ribs. Usually even that is not necessary, and leaving them completely alone is the best policy.

Using anything that would make them glossy and gleaming, thus reflective - like Pledge - would ruin them. I had that done while I was not at home - and thus without my knowledge nor consent - to my pre-HD 60" Mit by a well meaning woman visitor many years ago, and for that - and a few other good reasons - she was never permitted to step foot in my home again. Those swirls NEVER came out again. They were still there years later.

:eek:

I have no idea what this Monster cleaner would do to your optics in there, but ABSOLUTELY KNOW that it is not needed in this case. So don't be a cowboy out there, and have us find out the hard way. STAY AWAY FROM THIS CLEANER FOR CRT RPTVS.


If you can't find Sprayway use Glass Plus, which is commonly available pretty much anywhere, in local grocery stores. It works just fine - just as well as Sprayway for the cleaning aspect - you just gotta watch the runoff factor, because it is liquid and not foam, like Sprayway is.

Don't use anything with ammonia - or Ammonia D, in the case of Windex - in there.

And don't use either Sprayway OR Glass Plus on the plastic front view screens. Leave them completely alone. Optics cleaning is done on the INNER optics - inside the optical cavity, usually by removing the front view screen.

ONLY.


b

I'd just about guarantee that the Monster Screen cleaner will do some sort of negative thing to the projector gun lenses if you attempt to clean them with it, or even quite possibly irreversibly damage them! Monster Screen cleaner has caused problems for many people on some Plasma TV screens that are coated with a anti reflective coating. And if it can cause problems when it's used on something it's supposedly designed for, I would never let it get even anywhere near the lenses on CRT projection guns!

Even Monster has caution warnings on possible damage issues with using it!


http://content.monstercable.com/product_content/screenclean_caution.jpg

Thanks for your input guys about not using the Monster cleaner. I was getting annoyed that I could not find sprayway class cleaner. On the weekend I decided to wash my car. Last year I received a car wash gift pack pail that had all sorts of cleaners in it and to my surprise I found that it had a bottle of sprayway cleaner in it LOL. All this time I had a bottle in my garage !


In CRT RPTV tech we NEVER touch the plastic viewscreens unless absolutely necessary. If left alone they never need any more than a light dusting with a clean dry terrycloth towel IF NECESSARY - if dust is on them - in the direction of the vertical ribs. Usually even that is not necessary, and leaving them completely alone is the best policy.
b

I have a clear protective contrast screen on the front of my unit. On my set, the screen with the ribs is behind this contrast screen, and is referred to as the Fresnel/Lenticular? according to the sm. Do you keep the contrast sheet off ?

I did once clean the clear contrast screen with the monster cleaner about a year ago and it seemed to work ok, but I’ve never cleaned the Fresnel/Lenticular with anything other than compressed air and a cloth as you suggest.

Now that I had the proper sprayway cleaner I decided it was time to give my lenses a good cleaning, and as I noted earlier, to remove what appeared to be striping tape on the lens. See below (attachment Lineups) the 3 lenses and you can see what I thought was the tape stripe on the red and blue lenses.

I first removed the Red barrel and brought it over to a clean table to clean it up. It cleaned up very nicely with the sprayway cleaner. With the barrel now off the crt assembly, I could see that there was still a remaining lens still there, it appears to be about a 2 inch deep concave which I was not able to remove to clean it on the other side. This lens seemed firmly attached to the crt assembly so I could only clean the top (exposed) side of the lens. Should I have been able to removed this lens and cleaned both the top and bottom ? I did not want to put any pressure on trying to remove it so just left it there and figured cleaning only the top half was better than nothing. The mirror looked clean, so only blew it with compressed air and a light towel swish to remove anything noticeable.

The interesting part of procedure is that what I thought was stripe tape on the lens was actually a metal “bar” under the barrel screwed to the CRT assembly. Photo attached as lens StripR. I don’t know if this is right but I removed it. What is the purpose of this light interference bar ?

Anyways I cleaned all 3 of the lenses and picture is looking much better, even my wife noticed the difference and made an unsolicited comment asking “Why does the picture looks so much better !” :)

But I still have a problem which I’ll discuss in another post to keep the post topic clear.

The purpose of the strips is white field uniformity, which is the purpose of all lenstriping, and as I said before, Pioneer was already on top of that. See post 2080, above.

If you had tried to get to the back of the concave coolant cover, you woulda released coolant, which woulda fallen onto your ECBs beneath. Coolant is conductive, and is the LAST thing you want falling onto your circuit boards. The backs of those coolant covers are sealed and not exposed to airborne contaminants like the other lenses are, so don't need any cleaning attention anyway.

Good that you left well enough alone.

Your mirror is still VERY dirty, which you'll see when you shine a BRIGHT flashlight onto it from a steep angle. Touch one small spot near the outside of the mirror lightly with the back of a dry finger knuckle and that patch will disturb the smokiness. You'll see that when you shine your bright flashlight on it.

Cover the lenses before doing the mirror, as the spray will fall on the newly cleaned lenses. I always do the mirror first so I don't have to worry about that, but since you've already cleaned your lenses...

It usually takes me 5-6 passes of doing the mirror before it's finally 95% clean, which is all you need and all you'll get anyway. Check it by standing above the chamber and keeping your eyes out of the light path, so you don't get blinded by the light. When the mirror has almost no streaks left, it's good to go.


b

Thanks for your response Bob, after rereading your earlier post I now understand what you meant by mechanical strips. I’ve got them off for now and all seems ok, maybe next time I get back in there to clean the mirror I’ll reinstall then and see if I notice a difference, unless you believe they need to be reinstalled asap.

Despite the cleaning and all, I’m still having the problem of the reddish-yellow spot near the center of the screen. On a blue screen it looks like darker blue spot. I took a few pics to see if it helps identify a problem and a place to look.

In the first pic, I had a test blue screen from DVE and you can see the darker blue that I’ve circled. On these pics is does not show anywhere near as bad as it really is for some reason. Also the screen was uniformly blue, not as badly discolored as this pic would have you believe.

On the test overscan picture you can see a slight discoloration in the same area. (Yes I hate the overscan on this set, but that's another project for later).

This spot is very obvious on a white screen, like watching something like Ice skating. When ever I tried to take a pic of a white screen my camera started doing odd things.

My convergence is good and when in the user converge screen everything looks nicely lined up with while lines. Any ideas ?

From your description your blue appears to be pre-aged in that area, or maybe there is some kind of growth in there impeding the blue in that area. I can't really see it on your pix.

Look directly into your blue lens and see if anything is growing in there. I call it "cooties in the coolant".

b

My 510 just suddenly went way out of whack losing all convergence and geometry. The colors are separated by feet. Red, blue, and green are basically just in separate areas of the screen and there is no proper geometry to speak of either. Any ideas on what the problem and fix might be? Costs?

At this point I am most likely going to get rid of it, so if anyone is interested PM me.

That would be a crime, getting rid of such a fine piece of equipment.

Your convergence ICs have croaked, it happens a lot on CRT tech, no matter what the brand. Just replace them and keep on truckin', just like a thermostat in a car.

Have you seen the images I have been able to bring out of 510s just like yours, all over the country? Check out page 45 of this thread for images of your model year lineup of the 510/610/710s, plus a 530 calibrated on the image structure strictly by its owner. And many other pix I have sent up. If you want to see what CRT is capable of, check out the Screenshot War thread, and my own Don't Dump your CRT RPTV! thread. I just put up some new pix from my set, but didn't put them here because this is a Pioneer thread and mine's a Mit. They do show what CRT is capable of, tho.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695922&page=199

You should keep your set, it is only midway thru its service life and still capable of HD that's head and shoulders better than most of what's out there today, to buy new. Unlike most of the modalities out there today, CRT just keeps on going, and going, and going...

It has many happy years ahead of it, of producing stunning, stealth grade images. I would love to calibrate it and then take pix of it and send them up here to this thread.


b

I have a clear protective contrast screen on the front of my unit. On my set, the screen with the ribs is behind this contrast screen, and is referred to as the Fresnel/Lenticular? according to the sm. Do you keep the contrast sheet off ?



Yes. IMHO it does nothing but get in the way of what you're trying to see. If there's lights on in the room you see reflections off of it that interfere with seeing into dark areas of your pic, and even in a completely dark room it can slew the grayscale off from calibrated settings. You have to calibrate a set with them on or off, there are often different settings for each.


b

I haven't done any soldering on the board. I've given it back to him to finish touching up (including those under the white silicone goop). He's also going to double-check the fuses and recheck for solder bridges. Should know more on Monday.

Whatever happened on this? Did I miss something?


b

I have this exact same problem with my Pioneer Elite Pro200. Do you know where I can get a copy of the service manual? Electronic would be great. I've tried remove a dozen screws and still cannot remove the PS. Any help would be great.
Thanks, Floyd

I have had queries about the 200 all year, but nobody has sent me a board yet to work on. Seems they are having the same intermittencies as the lineup this thread is about.

I have seen lots of cold solder joints in the Pioneer non-HDready big screen line, no matter what the year. Is yours HD or not? If you want to send me the pertinent boards and all they need is resoldering, I can do that.

Let me know what you find out -


b

After reading some of the posts here - mostly Mr Bob's - I feel good that I picked up a pristine Pro610 about 2 yrs ago for $750 including a JVC dvd/surround sound system. But I also feel bad that it lives in my garage with the pool table and the bicycles! It gets watched for college and NFL football on Time Warner HD on the weekends, but I know it's not being used to it's full potential - just too big for the living room! :(

A 610 is 58". A 710 is 64". My 65" Panny is 65".

I sit 8' back from my 65" Panny, eyes to screen. How far back do you sit from your 58" 610?

After my calibrations are completed I encourage - sometimes I insist - that they sit as close to their newly optimized CRT display as is now possible - if only for at least a minute or 2 - just to see what the new potential is, POST calibration.

As a result I have my owners sit 6' back from a 510, 7' back from a 610, and 8' back from a 710. Many times the owners just LEAVE those viewing chairs there, the improvement has been so strong, and the pic they can now watch so much bigger than before. And much crisper.

How far back are you sitting from your 610? If it's like 10'-12' and that is why your living room seems too small, with calibration chances are it won't be. Would it fit more comfortably in your prime viewing area - your living room - if you were sitting only 7' back, eyes to screen?

I guaranty you'd be getting better use out of it than you are right now.

:p

b

unfortunately it's physically too big, not screen-size too big. Panasonic 50" plasma fits into a hole in the wall - big piano-black 610 doesn't! I like the look, but my wife doesn't enjoy the "2001 - A Space Odyssey" monolith effect.:(

Too bad. You won't get that amazing CRT fidelity, and for a song. You'll have to be out thousands instead, for that plasma -

:(

b

Well, I replaced the ICs in my PRO-710HD...and I'm not sure it fixed my problem. I ordered 2 new chips from MCM Electronics (http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product.aspx?productid=STK392-180) and had them professionally soldered on since I didn't trust myself to do it. It's only been a few days, but my convergence seems to shift ever so slightly, even after the full warmup period. Bear in mind, the shift is very subtle, and seems to only be the red. It's barely noticeable, other than when I'm looking at the multi-point grid or when there are light colors against a dark background.

Any ideas? Bob, I'm not sure if this is relevant, but it seems to have started happening after you did my calibration, which included correcting the overscan (but NOT using the shim method).

I have never seen a 510/610/710 Elite need lenstriping, because it already has it. It's built in, UNDER the lens barrel. What's built in on them works fine! Excellent white field uniformity, OOB. No need to add to it. Adding to it just UNbalances things again, which is probably what's causing your white field NON uniformity.

Putting tape on plastic lens surfaces can RUIN THEM. The adhesive eats into the plastic. Personally I would remove it, but VERY carefully.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.


b

I wonder why Pioneer went away from lens stripping on later models. On 530HDi they only installed it on the RED gun. On 730HDi they don't use them at all.

Well, I replaced the ICs in my PRO-710HD...and I'm not sure it fixed my problem. I ordered 2 new chips from MCM Electronics (http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product.aspx?productid=STK392-180) and had them professionally soldered on since I didn't trust myself to do it. It's only been a few days, but my convergence seems to shift ever so slightly, even after the full warmup period. Bear in mind, the shift is very subtle, and seems to only be the red. It's barely noticeable, other than when I'm looking at the multi-point grid or when there are light colors against a dark background.

Any ideas? Bob, I'm not sure if this is relevant, but it seems to have started happening after you did my calibration, which included correcting the overscan (but NOT using the shim method).

Major changes happen in the o'scan redux op if you don't use the shim method, and perhaps the set needed to settle a bit with the new settings. The whole conv paradigm gets pushed into entirely different areas for the registers to go.

And some of us see these things a lot more readily than others.

Age can be a factor. I have heard of conv drift starting to happen spontaneously after the set has been operating faithfully for years. In which case replacing the aging ICs seems to do the trick.

How far from your set do you sit? That can be a factor in more readily seeing errors.

Remember that aside from the 45 minute warmup period on turn-on, it also takes 100 hours for new conv ICs to "burn in", or stop drifting. After that 100 hours your conv should be much more stable than during the first 100 hours of their service life, where a lot of drift happens, just naturally.


b

Man...I guess this thread will never die. ;)

...

I know Mr. Bob has a service where I can send the board to him for repair, but I would rather not have to wait the 2-4 weeks it may take to get it back.


"May" being the operative word here. It is always subject to the workload of PS boards awaiting my attention, and my workload of other stuff needing doing, here in my home area.

Today I had nothing scheduled and there were no other boards here to do - had gotten them all off to their owners again, well within promised turnaround spec - and a board arrived here at around 11am. So I hopped on it. I got it out to Fedex again before pickup time today. Same day service, no extra charge.

Can't always promise that - sometimes things are so backed up that I have to charge extra to follow the request I sometimes get, to put someone's board to the head of the line and get it back to them next day - but sometimes we all get lucky.

Like today -


b

Remember that aside from the 45 minute warmup period on turn-on, it also takes 100 hours for new conv ICs to "burn in", or stop drifting. After that 100 hours your conv should be much more stable than during the first 100 hours of their service life, where a lot of drift happens, just naturally.
Bob, this could very well be the issue. I definitely don't have 100 hours on the new ICs yet.

Relax then. All will be well soon -

;)

b

I have the 710 and when I picked it up it didn't turn on. I found the 5-amp fuse was blown. I replaced it and the TV came on. I then had the power supply re-soldered (thanks Bob) and the TV worked great for about four days and the 5-amp fuse went again.

Now everything I could find in this thread points to the ICs being bad. Does this seem right?

I don't have access to the TV to see which led is lighting up on the boards. My mom is using the TV in a different state.

Any and all help is appreciated


Ken T

Going strictly on probabilities, your answer sounds correct.


b

I just added some pix to my Don't Dump your CRT RPTV! thread - not your specific brand, but definitely shows what CRT is capable of. Is a Mit, so keep that in mind and enjoy, even if you'd just like to see what YOUR set can look like with the appropriate care and attention -

;)

b

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17508339#post17508339

So today I sent off my third board done in a day. The workload has been light recently, allowing me to be there for that. I am sure owners who are getting their boards back quickly will be overjoyed to be getting their sets going again back to solid operations in record time.

It's good for me, and it's good for you owners too. I do try to do this all the time. Can't always, but I do try!

;)


b

Over the weekend I received a bonus ! I found an elite 510 on the web that the owner was giving away for free and was only about an hour from my home, so now I have 2 510s! I cost me $24 to rent a uhaul. It was not working and he was not going to get it fixed as he called a service tech and they told him is would cost him big bucks to fix it, without even looking at it. The symptom is the classic PS board problem. I removed the Power Supply board and the soldering is very flat and I can see visible holes/cracks in solder of some of the larger test points and some halo’s on other points. I spent 3 hours on the resoldering yesterday, about another 1-2 to finish the job. I had resoldered the PS on my existing unit and this new set looks in a little worse condition, but hopefully my soldering skill is now even better second board around. I’m hoping the unit will power up after the resolder operation. The unit appears as if it has never been opened up so it’s very dusty inside, and the outside cabinet is scuffed up more than I’d like with some paint chipped off near the bottom, and a couple scratches on the protective plastic, and the grill cloth needs work.

Not sure what I’ll do with it when it’s working, but thinking I'll use it to learn how to perform the shimming process before I perform it on my existing set. Also may consider swapping the guns to get the ones with the best performance in my existing set.

Just remember to inspect inspect inspect! The double and triple inspections I perform on each and every board after my resoldering process are very time consuming, but absolutely necessary. You don't want to stick your resoldered board back in to your otherwise fully operational set if there's even a CHANCE of having missed something.

;)

b

Thanks MR Bob I will heed your advice. I usually do a 4x4 square then swap the iron for a magnifying glass to inspect what was just done. The hardest ones are on the connector pins such as the E3 as they are very small. Is there a problem bridging the points that are listed as the same, ie I see 3 consecutive ground pins, a few consecutive 5V and 12 V’s pins on the connectors which seem to all go back to the source on the board ? Also do you reflow and add solder to the lines that look like ‘worm trails” on the board ?

It's OK to join those doubles and triples you mentioned.

I add solder only, I don't remove any. No need to.

No, I don't redo the "trails", no. No need. The heat/cold-expand/contract phenom doesn't happen at the trails, it happens at the components themselves, including raised resistors, ICs, transistors and heat sinks - tho the heat sinks don't get directly connected to anything in there, and can be spared the resoldering process. Which is good, because resoldering heat sinks requires a whole next level of heat from that of normal soldering iron temps. And thus special soldering equipment, which thankfully is not needed.

Test points can also be skipped, because they don't go anywhere or do anything while the unit is operational.


;)

b

Thanks for sharing your experience. When you cleaned your lenses did you take the lens barrel apart and clean each of the lenses, or did you just remove the lens pack for the base and clean the top and bottom lenses ?

When I last looked at my lenses I noticed the red and green lens pack have a piece of silver metallic tape, about a quarter inch wide and 2 inches long going across the lens (should of taken a pic – sorry). Is this tape stripe normal ? I was tempted to disassemble the lens pack/barrel to take it off, but thought I better check here first before I get that involved !

My picture looks fine, except there is a light yellowish/red patch about 3 inches wide near the center of the screen and I’m wondering if its because of this tape ? The patch is not usually noticeable unless the screen is white, so it’s annoying when watching a hockey game (with the white rink).
Appreciate your help and thoughts.

Sorry I didn't respond sooner...stopped getting emails about new posts for some reason. Anyway, seems like you've moved well past your question based on what I've read. Still, I'll answer the question.

No, I didn't take apart the barrel. I couldn't figure out how it came apart, or if it was supposed to, so I only cleaned the lenses that were exposed. The deep concave lenses threw me for a loop too. Still worried I didn't clean them correctly.

So all total, I cleaned nine surfaces, ten if you count the mirror.

Tell ya what though, reading this thread is both a benefit and a nightmare! I'm so worried about convergence boards going out and if/when my PS board is gonna die, despite not seeing any problems to cause worry.

I do know my wife is starting to complain about not being able to read text at the bottom of the screen due to the overscan, so that's starting to work in my favor when it comes to justifying the day I can afford Mr Bob to fix it :)

Thanks for your clarification, sounds like your cleaning was similar to mine. I'd think if you cleaned the 3 concave lenses on the CRT assy with sprayway and it looked good under light, you're OK.

Are you saying your PS board has never been resoldered and its still working OK ? That's an interesting scenario, if you want to proactively resolder it, or wait until it finally goes. Sounds like it just a matter of time before it goes. I'd be tempted to do it before it goes, on my timetable, vs having it go just before the superbowl game, and chancing other boards also going ?

My wife is also bugging me about the overscan. The NFL game scores on Fox are always hidden. I'm hoping this latest 510 I'm working on will power up and I can use it to learn on ( probably donate it to the church when I'm finished with it)

On another note I see there are 3 service manuals for the 5/6/710. 2 of them are availalbe here, anyone seen the third version, ie,ARP3086 Service Manual S/M(NEW)PRO710HD/610HD/510HD, or know if it has any additional useful information ?

Yep, owned the set for 9 years now and have never had the blue flicker of death. Maybe SoCal climate is not so bad for the boards?

Here's another question for Mr Bob...

Even after cleaning my lenses, there's still a (for lack of a better word) blemish that is on my screen. Are there other surfaces below the guns that could potentially need cleaning? I've mentioned it before, but years ago I had a lizard find its way inside my set (saw the little bastard's silhouette crawl up my screen!) and think it's possible he could've left a deposit on some surface. When it didn't go away after cleaning the lenses, it really left me puzzled. Ideas?

I haven't seen anything about it on the Pio, but some other brands have had a problem of something growing in the coolant and making it cloudy.

From your description your blue appears to be pre-aged in that area, or maybe there is some kind of growth in there impeding the blue in that area. I can't really see it on your pix.

Look directly into your blue lens and see if anything is growing in there. I call it "cooties in the coolant".

b

I'm wondering if I'm having the same problem ( see post 2087), and I've heard about replacing the coolant but not really sure what it entails. Has anyone done this on a 5/6/710 and can give some advice or share the steps ? When replacing the coolant are you also able to clean the inside of the lower concave lens and remove the "cooties in the coolant" ?

Yep, owned the set for 9 years now and have never had the blue flicker of death. Maybe SoCal climate is not so bad for the boards?

Here's another question for Mr Bob...

Even after cleaning my lenses, there's still a (for lack of a better word) blemish that is on my screen. Are there other surfaces below the guns that could potentially need cleaning? I've mentioned it before, but years ago I had a lizard find its way inside my set (saw the little bastard's silhouette crawl up my screen!) and think it's possible he could've left a deposit on some surface. When it didn't go away after cleaning the lenses, it really left me puzzled. Ideas?

That surface of your screen prolly needs cleaning. The inner one is the fresnel, but the smooth side is usually what's facing the mirror. Not an easy task, and things could go wrong, so only do that blem. Be careful -

b

I'm wondering if I'm having the same problem ( see post 2087), and I've heard about replacing the coolant but not really sure what it entails. Has anyone done this on a 5/6/710 and can give some advice or share the steps ? When replacing the coolant are you also able to clean the inside of the lower concave lens and remove the "cooties in the coolant" ?

Have not seen this being an issue with the CRT Elites. Unless absolutely needed, this op should be avoided like the plague.

b

To all,

I have a Pioneer Elite Pro510HD that is in working condition. Input 1 in HD works but all others are off aligned. Can be fixable if you have the time to sit and fix all the grids in factory mode. I'm in North Jersey and willing to let the TV go for a meer 200.00 dolllars or sell any of its parts before i let it go. All the parts on the TV are in working order. If anyone is looking for anything, please contact me at rajtailor7@verizon.net. Especially if you are looking for the power supply board. It's only about 2 years old since I replaced it and goes for over $400.00, I'll sell it cheap.

Seems a shame to break up a fully operational set, by offering the parts individually. This should only be done on a set which has been disabled and will not be fixed, where lots of the parts are still good.

I recommend you sell this set only as a fully operational unit, not part it out. $200 for a fully operational set that cost over $5000 when new should bring you a buyer promptly!

;)


b

I have a PRO 610-HD which I purchased new in 2000. No Power Board problems until now (I think). What I am seeing is constant horizontal noise stripes up and down the screen. Very distracting and causes me to believe the set is in trouble.

I had a tech come out to clean the lenses and reconverge, hoping that the cure for my problem I have was a simple PM away. Well, the picture does look a lot better but the noise bars are still there. The tech advised me that he felt it was probably the Power Board but could be the Deflector Board (the guy actually owns the same set).

I am having difficulty biting off $650 to fix this set. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

PS - I started fixing electronics in the early 1980's. Have the capacity, just need some direction.

Sounds like noise bars, also called hum bars. Grounding in your sys among your sources is not right, probably not any of the internal boards are at fault.

Check which source component is causing the problems by removing one after the other until this goes away. Cable is usually the primary offender on this kind of thing.

Which can be remedied by using a ground isolating signal conveyor on the coax line.


b

Thanks Bob. I'm on it.

Grounding is a tricky animal. Too much can cause ground loops, too little can cause ingress noise. Gotta play around with it. Let us know how it turns out -

b