I went into the system setting on the cable box and it said the channel had no 5C and was copy free. I changed to numerous channels, mainly focusing on broadcast and still had no luck. Do I need transport stream codecs for this or any other configuration I'm doing wrong?

CAVEAT: Everything described below is from my Verizon FIOS Motorola QIP6416 DVR. If you are using some other provider ,like Comcast, or another DVR device like the Moto76412, I can not guarantee as to the correcteness of this.

IN any discusion of 5C it is simpler to talk in terms of ON/OFF where in actuality, it really has several states. These are Copy Never, Copy Once,Copy Always and one or 2 more that I forget. I am sure I will be corrected if I have the names mixed up but you get the idea.

Copy Never obviosuly means that you can not make a copy of the material ever whereas Copy Once lets you make a copy but can never make a dub of it.

Later in this post, I mention the D-VHS as it relates to 5C.

For the sake of simplicity, I am using 5C "ON" to mean "Copy Never" and 5C "OFF' to mean "Copy Always"





I assume you are using the 5C instructions that are kicking around the net that describe using the front panel menu and looking at the 5C flag in "d11 INTERFACE STATUS" and looking at the 5C flag on the menu in order to determine whether a channel has 5C enabled.

Sorry for the runon sentence.

I have found that using that indicator is not very reliable at all.


Here is what I do.

Go into the front panel menu and select "D6 Current Channel Status"
There is one page of information for each of the two tuners.

Each page has the 5C flag state for the station currently tuned to.
You will NOT see the 5C string but instead look for the CCI string as that is the 5C state.


There are explanations about the relationship between the 5C and the CCI strings on avsforum in case you are curious.
I switched to Verizon on May 22 and have since gone through the stations that I care about and have marked up my Channel Spreadsheet as to which station are 5C 'protected' so I don't really care.



So, use the D6 menu display for telling you which tuner currently has 5C enabled/disabled.

You will see an item that says "Primary Tuner" and I have not spotted the logic behind it yet but the "Primary Tuner" that is chosen does switch between the 2 tuners.


A reminder that there is a difference between Copy Control and Copy Protection.
You can have a channel where it's Copy Control flag (the 5C flag) is turned off and still have the program be Copy Protected.

Example:
On my Verizon FIOS system, the National Geograpic HD channel has the 5C flag set to zero so you can record it over firewire to your PC BUT I have run into some programs that I wanteds to send to my DVD recorder and I got a 'Copy Protection error' and was unable to record it to my DVD recorder.

I use the DVD recorder with w DVD+RW for the 'daily soaps' and Cartoons for the kids so I don't fiill up that dinky 160Gbyte disk on my DVR with junk.

On the other hand I have had not had many problem's recording some of the movies from HBO HD onto the DVD recorder. NO jokes - it was for testing purposes :D


And if all that is not complicated enough for you, read on about D-VHS:


Something related that you may want to think about:
The JVC and Mistubishi D-VHS decks are fully 5C compliant so all this disucsion about 5C protection on Verizon FIOS (and I am sure it is the same with Comcast)I becomes moot.

I own the JVC model 40000K D-VHS and it has it's own mpeg decoder as well as a firewire interface.
It is connected to my PC as well as my Verizon Motorola DVR.

I can record every channel (that I paid for for) from Verizon on my JVC since 1) It is fully 5C compliant and 2) the only way to 'kill it' is to turn 5C on to "Copy Never" from Verizon.

It is belieived that if Verizon were to set the 5C flag to "Copy Never" it would kill the DVR capability since it is copying to the Disc drive.


So, I use the D-VHS to offload the DVR when it gets full for later watching but I also use it for making 'keeper recordings'

After being with Directv for 10 years and putting up with their over conmpressed High Def signal such that we all nicknamed their High Def PQ to 'HD Lite' , it is a pleasure to be getting a High def Picture Quality that is on a par with Ble-Ray and HDDVD.
For less than $4 per tape,I get a True 1080i,full bitrate High def picture and it is all perfectly legal due to the adherence to the MPAA's 5C Copy Precotction rules.



When the decks first came out in 2002, they were around $1200 but quickly nose dived and were stopped being made when the HDDVD's started showing up.
You can now pick them up on Ebay for around $250.

My opinion is that as more and more people start getting Blu Ray quality (except for the 1080P part) pictures from their firewire enabled DVR's that the D-VHS Will make a small come back.


Joe

Hello guy, I am recording from a motorola box 6412 via firewire to my computer using capvhs software, it records FINE, quality all good BUT at the bottom of the screen there is a white/gray line, I do not why have you guys seen this before any ideas how to remove thanks.

Trying to hook up my Motorola 6412 to my laptop, while drivers are installing I get the blue screen memory dump. Anything that I can do to get by this? It says the file miestb.sys is causing the problem.

I have vista on my laptop and have gotten the 3412 stb recognized. I need some help when it comes to the media center part and the mytray.exe app.

I've been following the timmmoore site - http://home.comcast.net/~timmmoore/firewire/readme.htm

I am not too familiar with media center. From what I understand I must have an analog tuner for this to work even though it is not really used for this process. I got a hauppauge hvr950 that works via usb and I got it working with the laptop using the supplied antenna. This can do ntsc/atsc.

Now I am confused how I am supposed to use media center to tune to a cable channel when it has the channels setup from the antenna use on the usb tuner. How am I supposed to setup media center for this to work. I don't plug in the cable coax line to the tuner too right?

In the mytray.exe there are no combo boxes for the tuner. I don't know what I need to do to get that to work either. Any leads?

The link above for troubleshooting says "Is MCE correctly recording as normal from STBs, changing channel on the STB via IR? This needs to work before trying to use this STB Controller. "
I assume I need to configure something in media center but I really don't know what this means because I don't think the cable box is supposed to go directly to the usb tuner.

Sorry if this is basic but I'm really confused here.

So, my question is, how are you guys getting a good, solid firewire lock on your computers if I can't get one on my D-VHS deck? Any ideas? I'm running Passport V2.6.002 on my 8300. Thanks.

I get a lock with my 8300HD on my computer but my box is running SARA.

Hello guy, I am recording from a motorola box 6412 via firewire to my computer using capvhs software, it records FINE, quality all good BUT at the bottom of the screen there is a white/gray line, I do not why have you guys seen this before any ideas how to remove thanks.

I have a 6416 and Vista. Same issue but it's at the top not bottom. No big deal to crop it out but why is it there to begin with?

I get a lock with my 8300HD on my computer but my box is running SARA.

Okay, thanks. I'm not aware of anybody with an 8300 w/SARA who's still recording to a D-VHS deck, though. I wonder if anybody who has a Passport equipped 8300 has been successful getting a firewire lock?

Anybody..........?

I just bought a JVC 30k DVHS unit. I have a TW 8300HD box with Passport 2.6.002 The JVC deck will view (and send to the tv through component) all channels both analog and HD, and also shows on the DVR analog and also Discovery HD. (all that I've had time to check on so far)

It will record shows from Discovery HD live (i believe it's set to copy once, but Passport's copy protection screen is hard to interpret).

It won't record shows from Discovery HD that are on the DVR. The DVHS deck displays a message saying "Can't record copy protected program".

This proves that the shows on Discovery HD are set to copy once, and the DVR recording counts as copy one.


EDIT - I've found that by tuning both of the tuners in the 8300 to an analog cable channel that are for sure set to copy freely, then I can copy off Discovery HD programs that were on the DVR.

I am having problems with very minor glitching - both audio and video (but more audio) - occasionally through the program. The sound glitching is somewhat distracting, but the video glitching is pretty easy to ignore. It happens even when I'm just watching TV through the DVHS as a decoder. Thus it is not dirty video heads. It is either glitches in the DVHS's MPEG2 decoder, or glitches in the feed the 8300 is sending out.

I'm leaning toward the 8300 being the problem, but it's just a guess. I was also able to get my PC to record from the 8300, however the glitches were much much worse. The resulting files were pretty much unwatchable. Also, CAPDVHS crashes within seconds. I was using VLC and also TSReader Lite.

END EDIT

Michael

What I experience with my Passport-equipped 8300 and my JVC 40k tape deck is similar to you, Michael. But I cannot hold a firewire lock on any HD channel, "live" or recorded. The only difference between "live" and recorded is the area on the hard drive the data is being read from: the buffer (live, which is actually recorded and read back a couple of seconds) or somewhere else on the HDD where the data is residing. Theoretically, it shouldn't make any difference. And doesn't, with my system. Any and all HD streams are riddled with glitches for a few seconds, then it just freezes up or goes to gray screen. This is what I have seen and all I have seen since TWC pushed a new version of Passport to SA STB's all over the country last August. Since then, I haven't heard of anyone else still having success recording HD content from SA STB's via firewire.

My conclusion is that this is a software issue. So, I put the question out there again: Is anybody having any success getting a solid firewire lock from a Passport-equipped SA8300 (or any other SA STB with Passport for that matter) to either a D-VHS deck or a computer? Anybody??

Same issue but it's at the top not bottom. No big deal to crop it out but why is it there to begin with?
Check the resolution, the height is 1088 instead of 1080, with the extra 8 pixels containing informations like close caption and such. Normally you should not be seeing those, but the station/provider is not sending a proper signal... ;)

First off, thanks to the OP for his instructions that at least got me moving in the right direction.

I currently have an SA 3250HD (with SARA I believe) running on comcast cable in South Florida. I believe I have my drivers all set up correctly now (2 unknowns disabled and 2 Panasonic D-VHS AV/C devices). However, I am only able to record the music channels via capdvhs or watch them using vlc media player streamed but all other channels including SD channels create 0 KB files or in VLC never show anything data streaming. When I hold down the diamond (in the center of directional buttons on box) and press info, I can see what I believe to be the copy protection info on page 20. Some channels show "freely" under the EMI column while others show "once".

Any ideas why only my music channels (audio with artist info slides) to work yet not any other channels? I should mention that for a while, I let the drivers install as SA 3250... tuner and panel and using VLC was actually able to get a slide show of pictures from HD channels and occasional audio - so I know the firewire ports are working and that it is somehow possible to lock on to my HD channels, even if it is for only a second at a time.

Also, after all drivers are installed, is it correct to have 2 Panasonic D-VHS AV/C devices or should there just be one?

For those out there who are struggling to get started like I was, there is a nice guide over on neowin (first post so I can't link) that was a huge help to me and had the drivers I needed (before I couldn't even choose Panasonic).

Thanks in advance for your help and I hope this info helps some other people as well.

I have a Motorola DCT3412 I Dual Tuner/HDMI ready digital box from Comcast. I recently moved and took it with me because I didn't have the time to record what I had on the hard drive before moving.

My problem is that I wanted to transfer my recording to my PC so I could preserve the quality of the recordings but I have not been able to figure that out yet so I decided, for time sake I would just put it on my VCR but the VCR is not working at the moment. Aside from that my set top box won't even let me access the DVR menu because it's not connected to cable let alone connected to cable within the grid it was from.

I have Joan Jett appearances and some other bands that I have collected over the past year or so and I don't want to lose them before turning in the box. Is there some way I can still get to that stuff? Hopefully digitally?

In dire need of help. Gotta get this box back.

Thanks.

For Verizon FiOS, and I assume Comcast is the same, once your service is canceled, you now have a nice STB (Set-Top Brick). The DVR needs the account authorized to allow access to the recordings. Sorry.

Not sure if this was posted before but here goes.

I been recording via firewire from my dct3416 and noticed I couldnt FF or RR after doing a recording and had to unplug my box and plug it back in to fix this which is a huge bother. However, I discovered something this morning that can save the time of having to wait for the box to reboot after plugging it back in and waiting for the guide to repopulate.

Anyhow, I found a way around it! If you stop D-VHS while ur settopbox is ff-ing or rr-ing you wont need to unplug! It will FF and RR like notmal after you stop D-VHS.

Just thought i'd let ya'll know in case ur stuck with old firmware like me :)

I have an 8240HDC and haven't yet been able to capture anything.

I used the drivers linked on the front page, the "av/c device" installed, but the "av/c panel" wouldn't. Is this a common problem or a just because I have a box newer than the drivers?

Hello, everyone.

First, let me thank those here who have worked so hard to put together the basic (and detailed!) how-tos on recording over firewire from their HD STB's. The directions and background are wonderful.

I'm thinking that I have my basic setup correct, but have not yet captured anything from my STB to the PC. Here's my config:

SA 8300HD DVR with Sara
Cox Dig. Cable service in Oklahoma City
Win XP SP 2 w/1394 patch installed
PC is a Dell Inspiron 9100 w/2GB RAM, 2.8Ghz P4 HT CPU, and a single FireWire port.

Installed the STB drivers per this thread
Tried CapDVHS for recording an VLC for stream capture
HDTVtoMPG2 for translating TS files to MPEG files

I've hooked up my FireWire cable to the left-most 1394 port of the 8300, and the SA box is recognized by the PC when the FireWire cable is connected. I've disabled the Panel device, leaving the Tuner only.

The "Channel" utility succesfully controls my STB to whichever channel I specify with no problems. However, I can neither capture streams nor record .ts files. Although the SA tuner is listed in VLC, streams never display, seeming as though they try to start, but almost immediately terminate - regardless of channel. For CapDVHS, if any .ts file is recorded (again, regardless of channel) , the created file when fed to HDTVtoMPG returns the dreaded "Cannot find channel" message. I almost thought I was capturing at one point - created a 15MB 60-second file, but I've been able to do nothing with it. I think it may just be garbage. At no time has CapDVHS given me any data in the "Data" tab regarding video chracteristics.

More bothersome is that DVhsCAP has, at times, hard frozen my system; no keyboard, no mouse, nothing, forcing a hard shutdown and restart. I also have received BSOD's reporting "BAD_POOL_SELECTOR", but that was only once. CapDVHS has also crashed on its own several times (without bringing down the whole box).

That represents the biggest higlights from an afternoon (and evening's) worth of experimentation with this STB and my PC. Could it be that trying a laptop for this purpose is an iffy proposition? My hope was to "prove the concept" on my laptop and, once that worked, pick up a firewire card for my self-built HTPC. My particular laptop is actually designed more like a desktop with a full P4 CPU, so my thought is that it should be more than able to handle the load. The FireWire cable is abrand new, 10-foot long version.

In a nutshell, the only thing that's worked so far is using the PC to change channels on the 8300HD DVR STB, but capturing FireWire streams has been a 100% failure. I don't *think* I've overlooked anything obvious, but I suspect chances are I have given all the work others here seem to have done already.

Any suggestions for what would be the next best thing to try would be greatly appreciated. The only thing I'm doing now is repeating past steps I know are failing.

-David

Well, it's not your laptop. Capdvhs will work(*) on any computer that can run XP. It's only a file transfer, which is trivial.

(*)= on Motorola boxes that the cableco hasn't crippled.

soonerdave:

Your issues sound similar to mine. Does your cable provider have any music channels (rock, rap, country, etc)? So far, those are the only channels I've actually had success recording or playing (vlc). Also, as grittree mentioned, the type of computer really shouldn't matter. It sounds to be like your box isn't capable of retrieving the data from those channels. The weird thing is that it is possible if you play around with the drivers to sometimes end up with a slideshow of images but it's not recordable and really not worth it so that's what puzzles me about this whole thing. I'm still waiting to see if anyone has any info about their success with a SA3250 on comcast. I still think the box is crippled in some way or most channels are encrypted.

Just thought I'd add a fraction more information to my previous post....

In addition to the 8300HD STB, I also have a 3250HD box in the back bedroom. My results when connected there are essentially the same as that with the 8300.

In paging through the configuration pages of the 8300/3250, I do come across a 1394 configuration page. Is there any conspicuous information I could look for here that might give me a clue on what the problems might be?

Thanks,
-sd

Please Help! I live in the Reading, Pennsylvania area and have Comcast as my cable provider. I have one Motorola DCT6412 and one DCT3412 in the house. I am running Windows Vista Ultimate edition and I followed the instructions for using the IEEE1394to the letter. The device is installed properly however I receive error messages, i.e. cannot open output file or cannot connect sample grabber when attempting to record using CapDVHS. I looked under the d11 menu and it has the 5c implementation as:NO. Data Xmission is listed as active, and copy control is copy free. What could be occurring?
Thanks for any help!

Look on the d6 menu page.
Bottom should have five 0x00's.
Down arrow for other tuner.

Please Help! I live in the Reading, Pennsylvania area and have Comcast as my cable provider. I have one Motorola DCT6412 and one DCT3412 in the house. I am running Windows Vista Ultimate edition and I followed the instructions for using the IEEE1394to the letter. The device is installed properly however I receive error messages, i.e. cannot open output file or cannot connect sample grabber when attempting to record using CapDVHS. I looked under the d11 menu and it has the 5c implementation as:NO. Data Xmission is listed as active, and copy control is copy free. What could be occurring?
Thanks for any help!

Seems like my problem exactly, though I'm still waiting on some insight. I'll try to see if I can get it to work on music channels to see if I can stream ANYTHING from the box via firewire, then I may know if it's my entire setup or something special with the cable box (6412/Passport/Cox).

I'll be watching closely to any replies for aantny88 or sooner and let them know if I find anything on my own.

Bulmoss,
I've tried again and again with no success on any channel music, hd, over the air, nothing. I'm hoping someone will give us some insight as this is really frustrating!

Has anyone had any trouble playing recorded shows from NBC HD, (The office or My Name is Earl)? I can capture the shows just fine, and they playback just fine on my PC.

When I try to play the files back on my PS3, (original .ts with no sound or MPG in PS format), thats when I run into some problems. The video is very hitchy, and seems to skip a lot. Recordings from other channels do not seem to act this way. Is anyone else having the same problem? Anyone know how to fix it?

Here's an update on my original recording efforts. I enjoyed a *tiny* amount of success last night.

Convinced I was getting *something* down the wire from the 8300HD, I downloaded a copy of TSReader Lite to see if it could give me any info on what was being sent down. It was able to tell me that it saw no channels as it was reading the PAT ("Possible IP/DVB mux or manual channels needed") (wording may not be precise, but it's from memory and I'm not at home presently).

Even with that caveat, I could at least conclude there was a stream being detected that TSReader could not analyze, and that gave me a bit of confidence to say the drivers were loaded and operating at least at some level.

Then I had the bright idea to try the playback of an existing recording, and voila - it worked instantly. I was able to capture on my PC a playback of a New Yankee Workshop episode from a couple of months ago. Picture, sound, the whole thing - worked just fine. This recording was made off of the regular educational channel on our local cable system (Cox), so this was not an HD stream. When I tried an HD playback, it failed, so I'm assuming that's 5c.

So, at least for the moment, my inferences are that *no* live stream from the firewire port is going to work in my situation, and only certain (probably "copy freely" or non-protected/encrypted) channels are going to be capturable. That's pretty disappointing, and since I'm a newbie at this, I'm hoping I'm jumping the gun and still have some hope of getting a bit more off the box...

The free version of TSReader won't let me define channels; does the message I am seeing indicate that it might be worth my while to get the next-step version and try defining channels? Or is it more likely that I'm already at a stopping place due to copy protection...if so, that's incredibly frustrating...

Thanks for any assist,
David

Has anyone had any trouble playing recorded shows from NBC HD, (The office or My Name is Earl)? I can capture the shows just fine, and they playback just fine on my PC.

When I try to play the files back on my PS3, (original .ts with no sound or MPG in PS format), thats when I run into some problems. The video is very hitchy, and seems to skip a lot. Recordings from other channels do not seem to act this way. Is anyone else having the same problem? Anyone know how to fix it?
Have you tried running mpeg2repair (http://homepages.roadrunner.com/1-50/m/w/mwilczyn/mpeg2/) on the recordings?

Please Help! I live in the Reading, Pennsylvania area and have Comcast as my cable provider. I have one Motorola DCT6412 and one DCT3412 in the house. I am running Windows Vista Ultimate edition and I followed the instructions for using the IEEE1394to the letter. The device is installed properly however I receive error messages, i.e. cannot open output file or cannot connect sample grabber when attempting to record using CapDVHS. I looked under the d11 menu and it has the 5c implementation as:NO. Data Xmission is listed as active, and copy control is copy free. What could be occurring?
Thanks for any help!
There are three known issues that could cause those errors. If you'd searched the thread, all three would have appeared. Have you tried them all?

1) The file you are trying to create already exists. Open the Save folder you specified to save the recordings in, and make sure the filename you entered in CapDVHS doesn't already exist. On the 'Setting' tab, you can also try checking the 'Check File Exists' box.

2) You are not running with administrator account privileges. See this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9932198&&#post9932198).

3) You do not have proper permissions for the folder you are trying to access. See this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9933685&&#post9933685).

I have to concur with you. I have TWC SA 8300HD with Passport 2.6.002 and *LIVE* streams do **NOT** work. Only Pre-Recorded Playback works with VLC / CapDVHS / etc. I have yet to try to record a HD channel like Discovery, and HBO HD to determine how the 5C bit prevents capture via Firewire on the PC. I did a check with my diagnostics 996 channel to no avail, and too tired to keep looking at how to get the IEEE1394 diagnostics screen on the 8300HD; but whatever, I can use VLC to bypass streaming on the PC, or capture TS streams to a HDD file, so half the battle is over. Hope others quickly google this confirmation so they can save themselves hours of frustration and hair pulling.
Good luck to all!

I have to concur with you. I have TWC SA 8300HD with Passport 2.6.002 and *LIVE* streams do **NOT** work. Only Pre-Recorded Playback works with VLC / CapDVHS / etc. I have yet to try to record a HD channel like Discovery, and HBO HD to determine how the 5C bit prevents capture via Firewire on the PC. I did a check with my diagnostics 996 channel to no avail, and too tired to keep looking at how to get the IEEE1394 diagnostics screen on the 8300HD; but whatever, I can use VLC to bypass streaming on the PC, or capture TS streams to a HDD file, so half the battle is over. Hope others quickly google this confirmation so they can save themselves hours of frustration and hair pulling.
Good luck to all!

Ah, finally. Someone who's actually had some success with the SA8300 w/ Passport and firewire. The first one I've heard of! Congratulations spinportal!! Now that I have a macbook computer, I'll be trying this.... (as soon as I can figure out what this "VLC" is...?).

Ah, finally. Someone who's actually had some success with the SA8300 w/ Passport and firewire. The first one I've heard of! Congratulations spinportal!! Now that I have a macbook computer, I'll be trying this.... (as soon as I can figure out what this "VLC" is...?).

"VLC Media Player". I'm not sure it will work for the Mac like it does for the PC but either way, it's a worthwhile player to have around.

You can get it from:
videolan[dot]org

Ah, finally. Someone who's actually had some success with the SA8300 w/ Passport and firewire. The first one I've heard of! Congratulations spinportal!! Now that I have a macbook computer, I'll be trying this.... (as soon as I can figure out what this "VLC" is...?).

I have not been able to use the firewire connection, but I have been successful for quite some time with the S-Video on the SA8300; I've not tried the HD channels, only digital channels. I will try this weekend for the HD channels.

I have not been able to use the firewire connection, but I have been successful for quite some time with the S-Video on the SA8300; I've not tried the HD channels, only digital channels. I will try this weekend for the HD channels.
S-video is a different animal altogether, and doesn't really relate to the topic. As an analog format, you only have Macrovision (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macrovision) and CGMS-A (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CGMS-A) to deal with to thwart any copy protection. Those schemes can be undone. Firewire, carrying a digital bitstream of the content delivered by the cable company, has its own form of copy protection, an encryption scheme called DTCP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTCP). It cannot be undone.

question.. so many pages here..

last night with my SA 4200HD from cablevision I was able to watch HD stuff like HDNet in VLC however in DVHS I could record the show but after about 20 seconds the program crashes.

question.. so many pages here..

last night with my SA 4200HD from cablevision I was able to watch HD stuff like HDNet in VLC however in DVHS I could record the show but after about 20 seconds the program crashes.


You forgot to ask the question so I will:)

You brought up a VERY interesting topic about channels that are in the clear.
It is interesting since the only thing that I can tune to from the cable itself (using my TV capture card obviously) with programs such as WinTV or GBPVR are the low 40 Aanalogue channels and the OTA HDTV channels.


What QAM capable tuner card are you using in your PC?
I am usinng the Hauppage HVR-1600 with their beta driver that turns on support for QAM tuning which is needed for my provider, Verizon FIOS.

I assume cablevision uses QAM as well - right?


What other Stations beside HDNET were in the clear such that you could see it with VLC?
The analogue and OTA stations don't count because as I understand it, all cable companies are required to leave those in the clear.




I can get CapDvhs to Read and Record to disc "The National Geographic Program HD" (NGCHD) from the Firewire output on the Verizon supplied Motorola 6416 DVR but have not been successful in tuning NGCHD with my QAM capable HVR-1600 TV tuner card.


Were you able to watch HDNET in WinTV or some other application than VLC and what frequency did you tell it to tune to?

What program were you using that crashed?
Was it CapDVHS that you were using to go to the D-VHS deck?

wow... well I can see every channel and I can record every channel I tried so far.. and this includes Mojo and HDNet and HBOHD and NBC HD and CBS HD

For the tv tuner in my pc I have a Hauppage HVR-1600 and I use the beta drivers for Clear QAM Cablevision uses QAM-256 I have no issue viewing the channels on the pc.

I will have to check again but I don't think I can get HGCHD on clear QAM for the tv tuner card.

And when the program crashed it was D-VHS it was the only one running at the time.

wow... well I can see every channel and I can record every channel I tried so far.. and this includes Mojo and HDNet and HBOHD and NBC HD and CBS HD

For the tv tuner in my pc I have a Hauppage HVR-1600 and I use the beta drivers for Clear QAM Cablevision uses QAM-256 I have no issue viewing the channels on the pc.

I will have to check again but I don't think I can get HGCHD on clear QAM for the tv tuner card.

And when the program crashed it was D-VHS it was the only one running at the time.
OK, your original post and JoeQ's post are about two very different topics.

Your original question seemed to be about streaming over firewire using VLC vs. capturing firewire with CapDVHS (abbreviating it to D-VHS isn't a good idea, btw, as D-VHS means something all on its own). I've made the assumption you're not using a D-VHS deck.

If you can stream over firewire using VLC, then the program is not being encrypted over firewire. You should be able to capture in CapDVHS if you can stream in VLC. So, you must have some issue with your setup.

If you don't get an error message from CapDVHS, then my first instinct would be a driver issue. Which driver package are you using? Have you tried one of the others? Have you tried simply reinstalling the drivers? There's not much to CapDVHS, so as long as you give a good stream, there shouldn't be any problems (beyond the popular errors that have been addressed before). It could be a software incompatibility with another driver or application, in which case you could spend an eternity tracking it down if you don't know what you're doing, or you may never get it to work with your hardware.

What JoeQ is talking about, which you seem to do also, is about tuning in-the-clear QAM with a tuner card. That's entirely different topic, with all sorts of different drivers, programs, and other factors.

In addition, simply because a program is not encrypted over firewire does not mean it is unencrypted (in-the-clear) QAM. A channel, or a program, can be unencrypted over firewire and still come in over the coax as encrypted QAM.

well with the way capDvhs is crashing VLC works far better for me.. Just I can't see what it is that I have to capture..

I just cant go and format my whole system right now due to some files I still use

thanks for all the help in this thread!

much appreciated!

EDIT: a few channels come in heavily pixelated via VLC player (they look fine on the tv)

any ideas what the problem could be?
http://img133.imagevenue.com/loc111/th_78952_vlcsnap-186075_122_111lo.jpg (http://img133.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=78952_vlcsnap-186075_122_111lo.jpg) http://img43.imagevenue.com/loc939/th_78942_vlcsnap-187522_122_939lo.jpg (http://img43.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=78942_vlcsnap-187522_122_939lo.jpg)

ESPNHD and MOJO

EDIT again:

using SA 4250HD on Cablevision

thanks for all the help in this thread!

much appreciated!

EDIT: a few channels come in heavily pixelated via VLC player (they look fine on the tv)

any ideas what the problem could be?
http://img133.imagevenue.com/loc111/th_78952_vlcsnap-186075_122_111lo.jpg (http://img133.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=78952_vlcsnap-186075_122_111lo.jpg) http://img43.imagevenue.com/loc939/th_78942_vlcsnap-187522_122_939lo.jpg (http://img43.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=78942_vlcsnap-187522_122_939lo.jpg)

ESPNHD and MOJO


I get the same issue :-/ I was like I know I have a good signal level.

It seems only the sports-related HD chans come in heavily pixelated via firewire.

ESPN, SNY, YES, Versus, MOJO...

The rest come in fairly well with slight pixelation interruptions every few minutes.

Yep... I can't figure out what causes it.. I havent tried the firewire on the SA 4250HD box I switched out with an SA 4200HD but I'm sure it will act the same way.

I get the same pixellation problem on every channel on NOVA cox cable with my SA3250HD SARA box but at least I can use firewire for channel tuning. Hoping the new cablecard boxes will work once they get them in and I swap it out :)

It seems only the sports-related HD chans come in heavily pixelated via firewire.

ESPN, SNY, YES, Versus, MOJO...

The rest come in fairly well with slight pixelation interruptions every few minutes.
Capturing the bitstream via CapDVHS and streaming via VLC require different resources.

Capturing via CapDVHS requires only the program itself (a very small program), the firewire drivers, and your hard drive.

Streaming via VLC requires a lot more resources: The program itself (which performs a lot more functions with a lot more code), the firewire drivers, video drivers, MPEG-2 decoding in hardware, or worse, in software, et al.

My experience with streaming in VLC is that it is simply too much of a strain on the system resources for most HTPCs to keep up flawlessly with an HD bitstream.

YMMV, perhaps you're running a screamin' machine in your living room.

hi pace(exDeus),

any idea why capdvhs can capture hd streams off 8300hd dvr perfectly using some of your posted drivers but crashes after 10 seconds or so and in the case of VLC which can capture indefinitely but have pixelation throughout.

i DO have one of those Quad core Intel CPU's so a powerful computer isn't an issue...

thanks for any ideas.

paul




Capturing the bitstream via CapDVHS and streaming via VLC require different resources.

Capturing via CapDVHS requires only the program itself (a very small program), the firewire drivers, and your hard drive.

Streaming via VLC requires a lot more resources: The program itself (which performs a lot more functions with a lot more code), the firewire drivers, video drivers, MPEG-2 decoding in hardware, or worse, in software, et al.

My experience with streaming in VLC is that it is simply too much of a strain on the system resources for most HTPCs to keep up flawlessly with an HD bitstream.

YMMV, perhaps you're running a screamin' machine in your living room.

Can you give us more details about the crash? It is like me taking my car to the shop and saying please fix it without giving them a clue what may be wrong. Does it blue screen? If so what is the dump info, it will tell us what device driver is having problems. If the program is crashing it may tell us a different thing.

Rowan

Sure Rowan...

vista ultimate did not blue screen, just crashed the capdvhs program...

i captured the screen as well as the event messages.

http://www.zoto.com/paulchiu/img/original/dec090ea578863611839e562ef735ab0.jpg


i captured a 30 minutes HD show with VLC but had those pixelization artifacts I wrote about earlier... then i played the 2.6GB file with VLC and I see those artifacts. When I played the same file with WIndows Media Player, those frames with artifacts were skipped, so the video jumps but no pixelization. Here, I wonder if Windows Media Player has some capture function... maybe it can do the capture part better.....


http://www.zoto.com/paulchiu/img/original/5a1ef23ca553992f955c06fc2cb6b925.jpg


any ideas to improve the time CAPDVHS works, eliminate the artifacts running VLC or some other capture programs using 1394?

thanks!


paul

Well, I'm convinced VLC cannot keep up with a hi-def bitstream, whether streaming or capturing. Either VLC is corrupting the bitstream received from the Firewire drivers, or the code is just too inefficient to keep up with the volume of data.

1) Do you have a minidump file? If you'd trust me, I'd like to take a look at it. They're meant to send to Microsoft, so they're not supposed to have any personally identifying information. Either way, I pledge not to do anything nefarious with your information.

In WinXP, the files are created in C:\Windows\Minidump. I'm not sure where they are in Vista, but you could look for a .dmp file with a modification time from when CapDVHS crashed, or get it to crash again, then do a search.

Send me a PM if you're up for it. I can use some Windows debugging tools to analyze the crash dump.

2) If you're using one of the other driver packages, download mine (http://exdeus.home.comcast.net/stbfirewire/) or Tim M. Moore's (http://home.comcast.net/~timmmoore/firewire/readme.htm) and try it. They use the default Microsoft AV/C Streaming Filter driver included with Windows, instead of the Panasonic AV/C Streaming Filter driver. If that driver happens to be the cause of your issue, hopefully it will resolve it.

3) Download Tim M. Moore's Vista RC1 installer for MyTray (http://home.comcast.net/~timmmoore/firewire/readme.htm), and try to set it up with Windows Media Center. You can read all about it, but in short, MyTray will capture a program via firewire while recording on an analog tuner, and then delete the analog recording.

vista ultimate did not blue screen, just crashed the capdvhs program...
I forgot to mention the other caveats for capturing in Vista:

1) Make sure you are running the app (CapDVHS, VLC, MyTray) with administrator account privileges. See How to use User Account Control (UAC) in Windows Vista (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/922708/en-us) to run the programs as an administrator.

2) If you are using MyTray (Tim M. Moore's program (http://home.comcast.net/~timmmoore/firewire/readme.htm)), he recommends turning off User Account Control (UAC). See Windows Vista Help: Turn User Account Control on or off (http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/Help/58b3b879-924d-4e08-9358-c316055d3eae1033.mspx).

3) As with WinXP, you may not have proper permissions for the folder you are trying to access. See this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9933685&&#post9933685).

xD

I PM you.....

as for the above, I think I downloaded from that link you post...."Moto drivers.....2007-06-06".. i tried the relevant for my 8300hd dvr and the VLC pixelated results was what i got.

i wouldn't mind at all buying something more potent to capture this HD scream, running at 15000kbs to 18000kbs, i think...(info from VLC capture)


paul

Good to see another Entourage fan on the forums! Now if only I could get my captured content to play on my PS3...

yeah! the reason for HD 1080i my brother....
beautiful locations, girls, cars, and girls....
much better than sopranos and much more likeable than the L word....

Good to see another Entourage fan on the forums! Now if only I could get my captured content to play on my PS3...

I updated my driver package. You can download it at the usual place (http://exdeus.home.comcast.net/stbfirewire/).

Two updates:

1) I prevented the Panasonic AV/C Streaming Filter driver from loading at all. Instead, the Microsoft driver included with your version of Windows is used. I think this may help with the Vista users. I left the meistrm.sys file in the driver package so it is included if needed in the future, but the driver isn't copied in or loaded.

2) I added support for the LG 50PX4DR HDTV DVR.

There will be Unknown and Monitor devices that will need to be disabled to avoid being prompted for a driver every time you boot Windows. There is no driver for the Monitor device, but all you need is the Tuner device in order to use CapDVHS or VLC to capture. There's also no Panel device with the HDTV, so you're out of luck for changing channels via firewire.

Let me know if anyone tries it out.

I have successfully connected my Motorola 6200 to my pc using the IEEE1394 and downloaded the CapDVHS software. Some channels I can download from and some I can't. Example, I downloaded the MTVHD James Brown special this past weekend and I can actually download a file from NBC and ABC but not CBS and FOX. I am downloading something, it's just no software I have can play whatever I have downloaded. This includes HDTVtoMPEG2. This is what I get from Windows Media Player (Windows Media Player cannot play the file. The Player might not support the file type or might not support the codec that was used to compress the file.) and this is what I get from HDTVtoMPEG2 (Warning - Could not find a channel). I have tried to go into the diagnostics of the actual box via this method from ReplayGuide and SourceForge but the power off definitely turns my DCT6200 off and all I get on the front of the box is an EP00 and a d 01. Any help with this would definitely be appreciated. I have Cox Cable and the network channels are 702(Fox) 704(CBS) (can't get either on the TS side) 705 (ABC) and 706 (NBC) can get both channels via the TS side. Thanking everyone who has contributed on this site. It has been fun reading.

smb56

If media player won't play any of the .ts files you have downloaded, then you don't have the right codec. Try using VLC (www.videolan.org). It plays .ts files fine. I use Nvidia Pure Cinema plugin for media player to play the .ts files since it uses much less CPU cycles than VLC and the quality is better. But it costs $20. There are free solutions out there also.

I have tried the VLC player also and get this message (Unrecognized format for 'C:\Documents and Settings\Steve\My Documents\704.mpg') As you can tell, this is being recorded as an .mpg file. I have no other information coming up on the CapDVHS program to show me what is really going on. When recording from a source I know I can get an .mpg from, it will show the size,aspect ratio, frame rate etc from data info tab but nothing is showing when trying to record from 702, 704 et.

smb56

smb, after you power off, you have to push the 'select' button on the remote within a couple of seconds to get the diagnostics menu.

and set capdvhs to use .ts as an extension. capdvhs is only a file transfer program and HDTV is sent as a transport stream.

When I hit the 'select button' all I get is an EP00 or d 01 through d 18 if I go up or down and then back to E or EP00.

I am guessing I need to re-explain. I can see the diagnostics screen on all channels except HD channels and there is no 5C encryption. I still can't record them in any sense with the exception of the few I have been able to record. The rest of them, setting CapDVHS with a .ts file extension come back with this. Unrecognized format for 'C:\Documents and Settings\Steve\My Documents\Movies\704wit.ts'. I don't know whether or not to go get a new box from Cox or what? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

smb56

You should look at the "current channel status" page, which is d06 on the newer DVRs. 5C will be zero, but the copy controls will not. That's what is happening.

The files you are getting are just gibberish. Good luck getting Cox to even pretend to care.

I am guessing I need to re-explain. I can see the diagnostics screen on all channels except HD channels and there is no 5C encryption. I still can't record them in any sense with the exception of the few I have been able to record. The rest of them, setting CapDVHS with a .ts file extension come back with this. Unrecognized format for 'C:\Documents and Settings\Steve\My Documents\Movies\704wit.ts'. I don't know whether or not to go get a new box from Cox or what? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

smb56
I am guessing you do have 5C encryption on the programs you are trying to capture. There are two indications 5C DTCP is being used on a program:

1) Looking at the 'Current Channel Status' page, one of the values is not '0x00'. See How To Check If 5C DTCP is Enabled (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Configuration#How_To_Check_If_5C_DTCP_is_Enabled).

2) When using CapDVHS, none of the values are populated on the 'Data Info' tab.

ExDeus, you nailed it on the head with the CCi issue of 0x02 which means the station is encrypted. I will give Cox another heads up to see what they do. I will log in and post what Cox is willing to do and not do. I received an email earlier this week from them concerning this and they are "checking into it" which means "I'm sitting on my butt". Thanks for all the help from you guys. This has been so much fun trying to outwit the Corporate America group. As an ex-NSA guy, I can tell you, this has been as much fun as back during the cold war era for me.
smb56

This has been so much fun trying to outwit the Corporate America group. As an ex-NSA guy, I can tell you, this has been as much fun as back during the cold war era for me.
smb56
That's the ironic part. The ability to receive free-to-air local broadcasts is supposed to be functionality mandated by the FCC, with Firewire available for every consumer to use easily with their TV, D-VHS deck, PC, or any other compliant device. Having to outwit anybody was never supposed to be required.

But, NSA is cool.

That's the ironic part. The ability to receive free-to-air local broadcasts is supposed to be functionality mandated by the FCC, with Firewire available for every consumer to use easily with their TV, D-VHS deck, PC, or any other compliant device. Having to outwit anybody was never supposed to be required.



BwaaaaHaHaHaHa! :D :D Maybe the cable companies issued themselves a "signing statement" so they don't have to obey the law. Works for the Prez. ;)

I don't think it is outwit as much as it is that most of the guys that are doing this work don't really know what the heck is going on. It is the same in my industry, when the new terminology came out and had been out about 2 years, I brought it up at a spec meeting and my competitor had it right in his own catalog but insisted he had never heard the term before. I think they probably have it right in front of them but just aren't willing to take the time to do their homework like we were all taught to do.

smb56

I have added the DCH-3416 and DCH-6416 models to my driver package. Download as usual (http://exdeus.home.comcast.net/stbfirewire/).

I'm still having sample grabber errors at times and can't get a stream at all, and I've set up permissions properly in vista, tried xp, and checked the CCI. It worked, then I had a box malfunction and had to get a replacement in May. I've tried a replacement for that one but no luck. Is it possible that Cox did something at the time that I switched? One PC had no configuration change between boxes, but no longer can extract. This is depressing.

I've set up permissions properly in vista
Can you detail what you did to set permissions?

tried xp
And you still got the SampleGrabber error?

checked the CCI
All five of the codes were 0x00? That means CCI, DRM, RC Flag, everything.

One PC had no configuration change between boxes, but no longer can extract.
You get the same specific error, just the SampleGrabber one?

And I'm assuming you've tried to capture programs from different times on every HD channel, particularly local ones.

Hello,

I have to re-install the drivers for my cable box (DCT6200) and I am getting this error. I tried both ways (the old way where you had to go through and select the device manually and the new way with the .msi) and both gave me this error. It got stuck copying the file "ksproxy.ax" then gave this error. Is there anything I'm doing wrong? I tried searching this thread, and all 5 results for ksproxy.ax didn't really help me.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/945/crcerrorax5.png

niceguy, you don't install that device.

Your PC is trying to look like a tape deck, not a tuner. AV/C Device is the hardware you install drivers for.

ExDeus, I appreciate the help, I'll try to get better answers for your other questions tonight. I can help with one though.

For the PC that had no configuration changes, I have a laptop that's 6 years old that has a 4-pin firewire port. It lives in a closet for now, but in April, I had pulled it out and used it to extract video successfully from by DCT-6416. After changing cable boxes to a different 6416, I pulled it out of the closet when my main PC didn't work and it didn't work. Here's better detail on how it doesn't work for me with the note that both capdvhs and vlc can recognize the box.

-run capdvhs, the timer is counting down, but there is no stream info, resolution, etc and it results in a 0kB file
-running capdvhs results in similar results
-run vlc, saving to a file, also results in 0kB file
-running vlc repeatedly at this point does the same
-run capdvhs, sample grabber error!

Capturing never works, but the sample grabber error comes when I do vlc then go back to capdvhs.

niceguy, you don't install that device.

Your PC is trying to look like a tape deck, not a tuner. AV/C Device is the hardware you install drivers for.

Ahh, Sorry. I was just following this part of the original post.
I will install the device!


Keep hitting cancel until you see "Tuner AV/C Device" or "Tuner AV/C Panel" as the hardware that was found. Install both like any other device.
Then Choose Install the software automatically (Recommended).


Edit: Same error, even though I tried it with just the device. I decided to go back to the manual way (to see if it would work), so I just uninstalled the mce pack from the beginning of the thread.

The process freezes here:
http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/525/copyerrzy6.png
And then gives me this error:
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/1360/deverrnh9.png

niceguy, you don't install that device.

Your PC is trying to look like a tape deck, not a tuner. AV/C Device is the hardware you install drivers for.
Well, yes you do install the Tuner device. We've had contention with this point before.

A STB supports 2 relevant device profiles: AV/C Tuner and AV/C Panel. The Panasonic D-VHS driver is an AV/C Tape driver. You are installing an AV/C Tape driver for an AV/C Tuner device. That is why, with the original meitape.inf file, you had to uncheck the 'Show compatible hardware' box to select 'Panasonic D-VHS AV/C Device'.

When you plug in your STB, there should be three devices: AV/C Tuner, AV/C Panel, and Unknown. I have never seen "AV/C Device" come up.

The device you want to install drivers for is the AV/C Tuner, and additionally the AV/C Panel if you are interested in channel changing, etc.

What you do NOT want to do is select the meituner.inf file, select the 'Panasonic Tuner AV/C Device', or otherwise attempt to install an AV/C Tuner driver. If the screencap above indicates that the AV/C Tuner driver was selected, then that is a problem.

Install the 'Panasonic D-VHS AV/C Device' driver from meitape.inf, or one of the devices named specifically for your STB (i.e., 'Motorola Tuner AV/C Device (DCT-3416)') from firestb.inf.

Install the 'Panasonic D-VHS AV/C Device' driver from meitape.inf, or one of the devices named specifically for your STB (i.e., 'Motorola Tuner AV/C Device (DCT-3416)') from firestb.inf.
That is exactly what I did above ( I just edited that post).
My pc has become a mess of drivers. I am just going to try uninstalling all of the ones related to this, restart, and start fresh. Hopefully that will help.
Edit:
And what do you know, I can't uninstall the drivers.

Failed to uninstall the device. The device may be required to boot up the computer.

I must be doing something wrong here. I got this error when I tried to uninstall the devices in the device manager. I am going to see if safe mode makes a difference.
Thanks for your help so far.
Is that CRC error being caused by installing the wrong drivers or what?

That is exactly what I did above ( I just edited that post).
My pc has become a mess of drivers. I am just going to try uninstalling all of the ones related to this, restart, and start fresh. Hopefully that will help.
Edit:
And what do you know, I can't uninstall the drivers.

I must be doing something wrong here. I got this error when I tried to uninstall the devices in the device manager. I am going to see if safe mode makes a difference.
Thanks for your help so far.
Is that CRC error being caused by installing the wrong drivers or what?
I don't know what happened, but there is something obviously wrong with your machine. Perhaps trying to load the wrong drivers.

You can try extracting a fresh copy of ksproxy.ax, if that really is the problem, and then updating the driver with the correct one for your device.

To extract a new copy of ksproxy.ax on Windows XP SP2:

Open a command prompt.
Enter the following command:
extract /y /l %systemroot%\system32\dllcache %systemroot%\driver~1\i386\sp2.cab ksproxy.ax

ExDeus, I appreciate the help, I'll try to get better answers for your other questions tonight. I can help with one though.

For the PC that had no configuration changes, I have a laptop that's 6 years old that has a 4-pin firewire port. It lives in a closet for now, but in April, I had pulled it out and used it to extract video successfully from by DCT-6416. After changing cable boxes to a different 6416, I pulled it out of the closet when my main PC didn't work and it didn't work. Here's better detail on how it doesn't work for me with the note that both capdvhs and vlc can recognize the box.

-run capdvhs, the timer is counting down, but there is no stream info, resolution, etc and it results in a 0kB file
-running capdvhs results in similar results
-run vlc, saving to a file, also results in 0kB file
-running vlc repeatedly at this point does the same
-run capdvhs, sample grabber error!

Capturing never works, but the sample grabber error comes when I do vlc then go back to capdvhs.
While trying to get this to work, VLC is buggier and has more variables to deal with, so stick with CapDVHS, as it is tried and tested.

From the description you've given, I think the program(s) you are trying to cap is protected with 5C-DTCP encryption. Perhaps with your box ALL programs are protected with 5C, I don't know, but we should rule it out first.

Power off the STB and power on. (This should ensure you are on Tuner 1).
Tune to a local HD channel.
Go to the Diagnostics Menu (Power off and hit OK).
Go to d06 CURRENT CHANNEL STATUS.
Check that all hex values are 0x00, particularly CCI and DRM. If they are not, turn the box back on and try a different channel. Keep trying different channels at different times until you get all 0x00 values.
Once all values are 0x00, boot up your PC, open CapDVHS, enter a new file name, and try to capture.

I did that extract thing for ksproxy.ax and then tried doing the drivers again. Same issue.
This is really weird. I wish I could see what that CRC error was on.

Ok just checked and all 5 hex codes were 0x00. I avoided VLC this time and stuck to capdvhs. I still got empty files and streams. No data. I tried both ports on the back of the 6416. I'm going to stick with XP on my laptop since it's worked numerous times and worry about my Vista box later.

Any ideas now?

I've attached during capture and the resulting files.

PS - I checked security in XP and I am an Administrator with full control over the folder.

Well, I am going to see what is up and try another pc. The tech came out today and replaced by dct6200 with a 3416 dvr. They also figured out that the box by the street (dont know what it is called, but it is on my property and it has cable stuff in it) is broken and they have to replace that (was causing garbled channels). So many things wrong, its just not my week with cable tv related isssues :P

Edit: I think I figured it out!

My os drive (20gb, 5-6 years old) was giving some errors in the system log. I googled them and they looked to be smart errors.
I ran chkdsk and its finding all sorts of errors. I do not know if that is related, but I guess I know where that corruption came from :).

I should be able to scrounge up another drive, or partition off one I allready have. A clean install should help me!

hello i've been reading your posts for a while and u guys have alot of drivers for xp and some drivers for vista x32 but i havent seen anything for vista x64 bit systems. is this an oversight or are you guys have those drivers too?
I have Motorola dct-6412 and i'm running windows vista ultimate x64 bit system.

any info would greatly be appreiated
thx in advance

I second cdnbandit's request for info on x64 bit Vista. I'm running an identical system (Vista Ultimate with Moto 6412). I naively attempted to install ExDeus' drivers, but Vista refused to support them.

I second cdnbandit's request for info on x64 bit Vista. I'm running an identical system (Vista Ultimate with Moto 6412). I naively attempted to install ExDeus' drivers, but Vista refused to support them.
There aren't any x64 drivers that I am aware of. The different driver packages are all dependent on one or more drivers from Panasonic (Matsushita), written in 2001. There haven't been any updates or similar releases since, as far as I am aware.

The drivers packaged with Tim M. Moore's MCE STB Controller (http://home.comcast.net/~timmmoore/firewire/readme.htm) are still a combination of the Panasonic drivers and drivers included with Windows.

your drivers may work in x23 bit for vista but it dosn't work in x64 for vista.
comes up with an error "make shure your drivers is an x64 bit driver

When trying to record firewire via MediaCenter/Toolbar nothing happens, no file is ever created, I have tried all available HD channels. However when I try and record with CapDVHS everything works flawlessly.
-Tim

ok i found a program that might work vm for windows vista x64 to xp and vista x32.
i'm going to try it if it works i'll let you guys know or not

I had to post this. This is typical of the cable companies and their attention to detail. What the heck, maybe they are trying really hard. (OMG I just won the lottery, NOT)

We do apologize about the delay on this. We have not been given an
complete answer on this issue as of yet. It is being tested for complete
results. The latest info we received was that the channels were checked
from here, and found to be unencrypted. It was also checked about the
issue with the d-6 sub menu that has the Current Channel Status and the
CCI at the bottom set to 0x02, and this part as far as whether this is
causing the blocking issue or not is being research with our engineers,
and Motorola for an answer. As soon as we are given information we will
have you contacted with an answer. We do again apologize about the
delay,and the we do apologize about the inconvenience, but we assure you
that it is being worked on for a definite correct answer.

has anybody fixed a "cannot find sampleGrabber" error. I am able to watch the stream from my moto 3416 on VLC media player, but cannot capture on the CapDVHS

I tried running the command prompt "MSIEXEC /i firestb.msi IDENT=0", but I keep getting this error message:

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/6973/firestbmsierrormessagehx6.png

Any suggestions?

I tried running the command prompt "MSIEXEC /i firestb.msi IDENT=0", but I keep getting this error message:

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/6973/firestbmsierrormessagehx6.png

Any suggestions?
Try giving the full path to firestb.msi, i.e., "MSIEXEC /i C:\firestb.msi IDENT=0". This would be if the firestb.msi file were sitting at the root of your C: drive, which it might be easiest to just do.

has anybody fixed a "cannot find sampleGrabber" error. I am able to watch the stream from my moto 3416 on VLC media player, but cannot capture on the CapDVHS
Apparently you didn't search the thread.


1) Make sure you are running the app with administrator account privileges. Right click on the program/shortcut and select Run as administrator. See How to use User Account Control (UAC) in Windows Vista (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/922708/en-us) for more info on how to run the programs as an administrator.

2) You may not have proper permissions for the folder you are trying to access. See this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9933685&&#post9933685).

Try giving the full path to firestb.msi, i.e., "MSIEXEC /i C:\firestb.msi IDENT=0". This would be if the firestb.msi file were sitting at the root of your C: drive, which it might be easiest to just do.

ExDeus,

May I just say that you are the man...or woman! That fixed it. Obviously, I wouldn't classify myself as the ultimate computer savvy ;) I had no idea what that code meant; so, I didn't understand what exactly was missing. I really appreciate it.

Now I can't wait to get home to see if my Explorer 8300 is as helpful :)

Apparently you didn't search the thread.


1) Make sure you are running the app with administrator account privileges. Right click on the program/shortcut and select Run as administrator. See for more info on how to run the programs as an administrator.

2) You may not have proper permissions for the folder you are trying to access. .

Well I have searched the thread the past couple days and i tried those, but I don't have Vista or XP Pro, which those two steps require.

I have read somewhere that the SampleGrabber has something to go with DirectX and Direct Show

I'm getting a "Error 80040154: Cannot FIND SambleGrabber" not the error about not being able to connect with SampleGrabber

Well I have searched the thread the past couple days and i tried those, but I don't have Vista or XP Pro, which those two steps require.

I have read somewhere that the SampleGrabber has something to go with DirectX and Direct Show
Fair enough, though that might have been something to mention in your original post.

Indeed, SampleGrabber is the name of a DirectShow filter. It could be one written by Microsoft (there was one included with the DirectX 8.1 SDK), or it could be a custom filter. We don't know exactly how it works, but it is likely very simple, so errors usually point to another problem as root cause.

What version of Windows and what version of DirectX are you running?

is there anything we can do if the 5C flags have been turned on, or is this something done at the request of each individual network. I noticed my cable system turned on the 5c for the ESPN HDs and HDNet. No more ESPN HD recording? :(

"is there anything we can do if the 5C flags have been turned on, or is this something done at the request of each individual network. I noticed my cable system turned on the 5c for the ESPN HDs and HDNet. No more ESPN HD recording? "

I have the same concern. I am trying to make firestb and MCE play nice, but according to my informal little study I just performed with capdvhs, almost ALL of the channels here in the Puget Sound area through Comcast are 5C protected. Where does that leave us? I thought that Locals were to remain unencrypted. Is there any way to resolve this???

"is there anything we can do if the 5C flags have been turned on, or is this something done at the request of each individual network. I noticed my cable system turned on the 5c for the ESPN HDs and HDNet. No more ESPN HD recording? "

I have the same concern. I am trying to make firestb and MCE play nice, but according to my informal little study I just performed with capdvhs, almost ALL of the channels here in the Puget Sound area through Comcast are 5C protected. Where does that leave us? I thought that Locals were to remain unencrypted. Is there any way to resolve this???
If 5C is on, then yes, you're done recording. However, the locals shouldn't be encrypted. Some Fox shows come from the network feed with encryption enabled (the Broadcast Flag is set, which triggers 5C encryption in at least Moto boxes), so not much to do there, but otherwise you should complain to your local affiliates about the broadcast flag and to your cable franchise authority about the encryption. As the 5C is controlled by the box's firmware, the best place to go is to your local broadcast affiliates to get them to switch off the broadcast flag.

There's information in this thread. Searching "FCC", "franchise", or "affiliate" should bring up some hits with relevant information to cite to the authorities.

sorry guys its been a while since my my last post. I'm still tring to get vista 64 bit to use a virtual machine with no luck so far. will keep u guys posted soon

Sad, it was turned on just in time for football season

Or get a DVHS machine and record 5C channels with ease .

Unfortunately a DVHS machine will not allow me to work with my xbox 360 extenders, which is my goal--I need to be able to easily bring content into Media Center.


"Some Fox shows come from the network feed with encryption enabled (the Broadcast Flag is set, which triggers 5C encryption in at least Moto boxes), so not much to do there, but otherwise you should complain to your local affiliates about the broadcast flag and to your cable franchise authority about the encryption."

I'm not sure I understand--if some shows can be encrypted on the locals, what's to prevent all shows from being encrypted? It was my understanding that the locals--and all of the content on them--were to remain unencrypted. Of course, I've been unable to find any FCC documentation to back that up...

Interestingly, I called Comcast this morning. The CSR I first talked to just kept repeating, "We do not support the firewire port." BS, I said. So after talking to the supervisor, she called back and asked me to check channel 91-6, 96-8, etc. It seems to me that she is talking about QAM (which *does* work, but I don't have a device for it).

So should I in fact call the local broadcasters? I have a hard time believing that in the entire Seattle area, I'm the only one experiencing this.

What are the real rights we as consumers have with regard to unencrypted firewire? QAM? Is there any legal documentation someone can point me to?

Thanks much.

I'm not sure I understand--if some shows can be encrypted on the locals, what's to prevent all shows from being encrypted? It was my understanding that the locals--and all of the content on them--were to remain unencrypted. Of course, I've been unable to find any FCC documentation to back that up...
I'm trying to get more information, but I've summed up my present understanding in an update to my STB Firewire page (http://exdeus.home.comcast.net/stbfirewire/#_Toc175236578). In short, you need to get your local broadcasters to stop using the Broadcast Flag.

Excerpt:

Essentially, if the local broadcast isn't marked with the Broadcast Flag, then the cable equipment can't encrypt it. The flipside is that if the local broadcast does contain the Broadcast Flag, then the cable equipment must pass it on through the Firewire output. There are two possible scenarios that can then arise if the Broadcast Flag is present: 1) The cable provider is retransmitting the local broadcast in encrypted form, or 2) the cable provider is retransmitting the local broadcast in unencrypted form. Scenario 1, with encryption, means subparagraph (b) applies, and the cable STB must protect the content, presumably using 5C DTCP over Firewire. Scenario 2, without encryption, means subparagraph (c) applies, and the content doesn't have to be protected, but it does have to preserve the Broadcast Flag.

I've received several requests for detailed Windows Vista installation instructions, so I updated my page (http://exdeus.home.comcast.net/stbfirewire/) with instructions and screenshots. Only verified with Vista 32-bit version.

Thanks a ton for putting up with a novice to this. So I read through the info on your site, and I'm still left wondering what to do next. I stumbled across this post earlier in the thread:

"In Seattle on Comcast with the DCT-3416, I'm able to capture off the box unhindered from ESPN-HD, ESPN2-HD, Universal-HD, Music-HD, TNT-HD, Discovery-HD, and INHD, all of which require a CableCARD to view from a QAM tuner. We have a problem with some of the OTA locals carrying a broadcast flag which seems to trigger the 3416 to embed a CCI=0x02 (copy once) flag, which prohibits us from watching/capturing such affected channels on a PC."

Essentially, this person echos my same problems, with the same box, in the same geographic area. If people have had this issue, why is it that the broadcasters are still illegally placing encryption into the signals? Is it the cable co's responsbility or the broadcasters to fix? It's hard for me to believe that no one has complained about it yet, and if it is in fact in violation of the FCC's mandate, it seems incredible that out of about 12 local channels, only four of them are unencrypted, and only one of the major networks.

Is anyone else in Seattle seeing this problem--has anyone dealt with Comcast and/or the broadcasters?

Essentially, this person echos my same problems, with the same box, in the same geographic area. If people have had this issue, why is it that the broadcasters are still illegally placing encryption into the signals? Is it the cable co's responsbility or the broadcasters to fix? It's hard for me to believe that no one has complained about it yet, and if it is in fact in violation of the FCC's mandate, it seems incredible that out of about 12 local channels, only four of them are unencrypted, and only one of the major networks.

Is anyone else in Seattle seeing this problem--has anyone dealt with Comcast and/or the broadcasters?
If it is just locals that are encrypted over Firewire, then I would assume it is because of the broadcast flag.

I'm not sure it's illegal, either. Popular sentiment seems to be that it is, but I'm trying to get the references on it. (Update: See 11357567.)

A U.S. District Court struck down the FCC's ruling that all consumer devices would have to honor the BF, but it didn't prevent any broadcasters from using it:

Because the Commission exceeded the scope of its delegated authority, we grant the petition for review, and reverse and vacate the Flag Order insofar as it requires demodulator products manufactured on or after July 1, 2005 to recognize and give effect to the broadcast flag.
So as long as the broadcasters put the BF in the stream, then the cable companies are required by 47 CFR 76.1909 (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&rgn=div5&view=text&node=47:4.0.1.1.4&idno=47#47:4.0.1.1.4.23.3.9) to honor it.

The question becomes whether the MSO in your area is cablecasting the local HD channels in clear-QAM or encrypted-QAM. If it's encrypted over QAM, then the cable company must use 5C DTCP to encrypt the Firewire output. If it's in-the-clear over QAM, then the cable company doesn't have to encrypt it, but isn't prevented from doing so.

Everybody thought they were going to have to support the BF, so it was implemented in the cable STBs to encrypt the Firewire output when the BF was present, and now the cable companies can't turn it off without new firmware/software for the boxes.

That's why I said it's best to go to your local broadcaster about it. I just don't know want ground you are on to demand they stop using it.

So I just got a voicemail from Comcast. The supervisor I had spoken to earlier talked with some technicians. She called to tell me that the local channels are not encrypted. So now I am confused. Maybe if I post what I see on the channel setup for channels that CAPDVHS is pulling in and the ones it is not, someonce can assist.

It is strange that when I borrowed someone's QAM tuner recently I was able to pull in all of the locals fine, but I cannot over firewire. I'm still puzzling over your comments, ExDeus, because you are clearly quite a bite sharper than me. :)

But in essence, before I do too much digging, if the cable company is not encrypting locals, and the channels do come in over QAM tuners, what is the mst likely culprit for them not coming through to my PC?

So I just got a voicemail from Comcast. The supervisor I had spoken to earlier talked with some technicians. She called to tell me that the local channels are not encrypted. So now I am confused. Maybe if I post what I see on the channel setup for channels that CAPDVHS is pulling in and the ones it is not, someone can assist.

It is strange that when I borrowed someone's QAM tuner recently I was able to pull in all of the locals fine, but I cannot over firewire. I'm still puzzling over your comments, ExDeus, because you are clearly quite a bit sharper than me. :)

But in essence, before I do too much digging, if the cable company is not encrypting locals, and the channels do come in over QAM tuners, what is the most likely culprit for them not coming through to my PC?
The thing that you're missing is that there are two entirely different encryptions involved.

The 1st possible encryption is on the QAM signal itself. That is, from the cable head-end to your cable box.

The 2nd possible encryption is from your cable box to a device connected to it over IEEE1394. This is 5C or DTCP encryption.

So this creates a matrix of 4 possible permutations:

1) QAM is not encrypted and IEEE1394 is not encrypted.
2) QAM is not encrypted and IEEE1394 is encrypted.
3) QAM is encrypted and IEEE1394 is not encrypted.
4) QAM is encrypted and IEEE1394 is encrypted.

Option 2 is what you are seeing with local channels carrying the Broadcast Flag. It's ridiculous, since you can easily defeat the 5C encryption with a QAM capture card (as you already know). Only options 1 and 4 make sense.

Ron

OK, now I get it. So before I run out to tilt with the local broadcasters, and/or get a QAM tuner, what's to prevent the QAM in the clear channels from slowly being encrypted. QAM tuners seem to be all the rage right now, but it seems possible, if not likely, that they will also be encrypted. Is there a more clear FCC mandate with regard to QAM, cable and local broadcasters?

One final question:
If I did get a QAM tuner, could I also make use of the firewire output through the cable box, and digital from the cable box so that it would look something like this:

1. Record Hi Def Locals from QAM
2. Record Hi Def Other from Firewire (ESPN, TNT) through cable box
3. Record regular Digital, and encrypted Hi Def through cable box analog

Is there a more clear FCC mandate with regard to QAM, cable and local broadcasters?
47CFR76.630 (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&rgn=div5&view=text&node=47:4.0.1.1.4&idno=47#47:4.0.1.1.4.11.3.14): "Cable system operators shall not scramble or otherwise encrypt signals carried on the basic service tier."

47CFR76.901 (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&rgn=div5&view=text&node=47:4.0.1.1.4&idno=47#47:4.0.1.1.4.14.3.1): "The basic service tier shall, at a minimum, include all signals of domestic television broadcast stations provided to any subscriber ..."

OK, now I get it. So before I run out to tilt with the local broadcasters, and/or get a QAM tuner, what's to prevent the QAM in the clear channels from slowly being encrypted. QAM tuners seem to be all the rage right now, but it seems possible, if not likely, that they will also be encrypted. Is there a more clear FCC mandate with regard to QAM, cable and local broadcasters?

One final question:
If I did get a QAM tuner, could I also make use of the firewire output through the cable box, and digital from the cable box so that it would look something like this:

1. Record Hi Def Locals from QAM
2. Record Hi Def Other from Firewire (ESPN, TNT) through cable box
3. Record regular Digital, and encrypted Hi Def through cable box analog
Sure, you could do that with a setup like an HDHomeRun, an analog capture card and BeyondTV (plus some free BTV add-ons for the channel changing and triggering the Firewire recording). Also may work with SageTV. Also may work with Vista/MCE.

When you set up your scheduled recordings, you just configure which tuner you want to use for that recording. You might even get your basic cable channels over QAM.

47CFR76.630 (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&rgn=div5&view=text&node=47:4.0.1.1.4&idno=47#47:4.0.1.1.4.11.3.14): "Cable system operators shall not scramble or otherwise encrypt signals carried on the basic service tier."

47CFR76.901 (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&rgn=div5&view=text&node=47:4.0.1.1.4&idno=47#47:4.0.1.1.4.14.3.1): "The basic service tier shall, at a minimum, include all signals of domestic television broadcast stations provided to any subscriber ..."
I read those sections earlier, and I decided that the cable providers could get around having to include local HD broadcasts in the clear because they would have already included the local broadcast in the unencrypted SD channels.

But now, looking at it again, I'm thinking it really does define "all signals of domestic television broadcast stations" as needing to be unencrypted.

It seems clear to me now that the encryption on the Firewire output is a violation of 47 CFR 76.630(a).

It seems clear to me now that the encryption on the Firewire output is a violation of 47 CFR 76.630(a).
I'm not so sure. Who is encrypting the Firewire output? You are renting the box, and you are using the box, which performs the encryption in your home. So maybe you are the one who is encrypting it. If that's the case, the cable system operator is not encrypting it, so the rule does not apply.

I'm not so sure. Who is encrypting the Firewire output? You are renting the box, and you are using the box, which performs the encryption in your home. So maybe you are the one who is encrypting it. If that's the case, the cable system operator is not encrypting it, so the rule does not apply.
No, I wouldn't buy that. The STB is leased. The STB is a black box to the consumer --- we are strictly prohibited from opening the box or altering it in any way. The functionality of the hardware and software are entirely controlled by the cable provider, except for a few user-configurable options. None of those options provide the user with any control over the encryption.

In other areas of Title 47 CFR 76, the regulations are quite clear about the fact that the cable providers have to provide demodulator equipment to customers that comply with the regulations. I don't see how this would be different. I don't believe a court could distinguish b/w what cable equipment does outside the home vs. inside the home if it is still entirely controlled by the provider.

ok i found a program that might work vm for windows vista x64 to xp and vista x32.
i'm going to try it if it works i'll let you guys know or not
Win Vista 64-bit doesn't allow unsigned drivers. I forgot about that stipulation.

So yeah, using Virtual PC, VMware, or dual-booting to XP is your best bet.

"is there anything we can do if the 5C flags have been turned on, or is this something done at the request of each individual network. I noticed my cable system turned on the 5c for the ESPN HDs and HDNet. No more ESPN HD recording? "

I have the same concern. I am trying to make firestb and MCE play nice, but according to my informal little study I just performed with capdvhs, almost ALL of the channels here in the Puget Sound area through Comcast are 5C protected. Where does that leave us? I thought that Locals were to remain unencrypted. Is there any way to resolve this???grapaslingo,

I'm in the "Puget Sound area" between Kingsgate and Juanita and I haven't noticed any channels with 5C encryption. About half the local HD channels have CCI set to 0x02, but most Comcast HD channels have CCI set to 0x00. These include KOMOHD, KIROHD, ESPNHD, ESPN2HD, UniversalHD, MTVHD, TNTHD, DiscoveryHD, MOJO/ComcastHD, and GolfVersusHD.

I don't have any problems capturing any of the CCI=0 channels via firewire other than doing so "breaks" the FF and REW transport functions until hard-booting the DVR (of course this triggers the excruciatingly long (post-iGuide "upgrade") guide rebuilding process). I can view all the HD channels via firewire on my Mitsubishi LCD TV (46131) without "breaking" the transport functions, so it seems that actually capturing is what initiates the problem.

I add this in case you're misinterpreting what you're experiencing. It's still possible that you're getting your programming with different restrictions than others in the area and if so, I'd like to learn more about it.

...
I stumbled across this post earlier in the thread:

"In Seattle on Comcast with the DCT-3416, I'm able to capture off the box unhindered from ESPN-HD, ESPN2-HD, Universal-HD, Music-HD, TNT-HD, Discovery-HD, and INHD, all of which require a CableCARD to view from a QAM tuner. We have a problem with some of the OTA locals carrying a broadcast flag which seems to trigger the 3416 to embed a CCI=0x02 (copy once) flag, which prohibits us from watching/capturing such affected channels on a PC."

Essentially, this person echos my same problems, with the same box, in the same geographic area. If people have had this issue, why is it that the broadcasters are still illegally placing encryption into the signals? Is it the cable co's responsbility or the broadcasters to fix? It's hard for me to believe that no one has complained about it yet, and if it is in fact in violation of the FCC's mandate, it seems incredible that out of about 12 local channels, only four of them are unencrypted, and only one of the major networks.

Is anyone else in Seattle seeing this problem--has anyone dealt with Comcast and/or the broadcasters?The post you quoted above looks like something I might've said as well.

The strange thing I noticed was that last October KIROHD (local CBs affiliate) began passing all their programming with a CCI flag of 0x02. In the meantime, KOMOHD (ABC affiliate) and KINGHD (NBC affiliate) continued to pass programming with the CCI flag set to 0x00. I complained to KIRO about this and a technician noted that they had just switched to an "older" encoder. I kept hoping that my complaints would somehow be acted on, but I didn't see anything change until just prior to the NCAA basketball tournament. Suddenly, KIRO's HD programming flipped over to sending out a CCI flag of 0x00. Unfortunately, at exactly the same time KING's (NBC) HD programming went to a CCI of 0x02 and hasn't changed since. I have no idea if it was a coincidence or not that those two flipovers happened simultaneously. KOMO's (ABC) HD programming has never changed from CCI=0x00.

Our local FOXHD has been a little different. Whenever programming originates locally, the CCI flag is set to 0x00, but whenever it's national (i.e. NFL football, American Idol, etc.) the flag is set to 0x02.

I have complained to several people at Comcast and several of the local TV stations, but I don't feel confident that I've ever talked to someone at those places who could give me meaningful answers. Eventually I simply caved and bought an OTA HD tuner card for my PC and record selected shows (CCI=0x02) straight to the PC. It's far from a seamless, convenient solution, but it seems to be the simplest and cheapest way outside of DVHS to archive stuff that I'll want to revisit long after the DVR has passed on.

[edit] There has actually been a lot of discussion along these lines scattered throughout this long thread. It's not as clear in my mind as it once was but I think you can see a good representation of it starting at about Post #3596 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=9764810&postcount=3596) and scanning a page or so beyond that.

The functionality of the hardware and software are entirely controlled by the cable provider, except for a few user-configurable options. None of those options provide the user with any control over the encryption.
I think the functionality is also determined by the hardware manufacturers and software developers. So maybe they are the ones who are encrypting the Firewire output. Who knows?

Anyway, the rule specifically refers to "signals carried on the basic service tier." The digital signals that are being carried on the cable system are QAM signals. I don't think that the Firewire signal (or any other signal generated by the box in your home) is considered to be a signal carried on the cable system.

So you're not trying to record with something like CAPDVHS? or Tim Moore's software?

What about RC Flag? On the channels I can't record it shows CCI=0x02 and RC Flag=0x01.

So you're not trying to record with something like CAPDVHS? or Tim Moore's software?

What about RC Flag? On the channels I can't record it shows CCI=0x02 and RC Flag=0x01.If you're addressing me, I'm using CAPDVHS exclusively for my captures.

From what I understand, the RC_Descriptor flag is embedded in the program stream before it gets to our DVRs, while the firmware of the DVR sets the CCI flag based on its value. I'm pretty sure that an RC_Descriptor of 0x01 triggers an assignment of CCI=0x02 on my DVRs 100% of the time. I don't recall ever seeing one setting without the other.

I think the functionality is also determined by the hardware manufacturers and software developers. So maybe they are the ones who are encrypting the Firewire output. Who knows?
Well, yeah, it's not much of a mystery there. The encryption of the Firewire output is controlled by the firmware/software inside the STB. Comparing the QAM stream to the Firewire stream, it isn't difficult to see what's being done where. A product provided by the cable company needs to comply with FCC regs, and the STB manufacturers need to meet the cable companies' requirements. It isn't out of the hands of the cable company if it's inside the box they provide. They can go back to the manufacturers for firmware/software changes, as they do already.

Anyway, the rule specifically refers to "signals carried on the basic service tier." The digital signals that are being carried on the cable system are QAM signals. I don't think that the Firewire signal (or any other signal generated by the box in your home) is considered to be a signal carried on the cable system.
What is says is that the basic service tier "shall, at a minimum, include all signals of domestic television broadcast stations...". That means as local broadcasters have begun broadcasting HDTV, and the cable companies have started to carry the channels, those channels must be included in the basic service tier.

No distinction is made b/w analog/digital or NTSC/QAM. At some point, all cable will be digital, employing QAM, anyway.

Additionally, Firewire is an FCC-mandated output. If the cable equipment is incapable of delivering the content to my consumer electronics equipment unencrypted via Firewire, then it is out of compliance. The very title of the section is "Compatibility with consumer electronics equipment."

Well, yeah, it's not much of a mystery there. The encryption of the Firewire output is controlled by the firmware/software inside the STB. Comparing the QAM stream to the Firewire stream, it isn't difficult to see what's being done where. A product provided by the cable company needs to comply with FCC regs, and the STB manufacturers need to meet the cable companies' requirements. It isn't out of the hands of the cable company if it's inside the box they provide. They can go back to the manufacturers for firmware/software changes, as they do already.
I agree that they are legally required to make the box compliant, if it is not compliant. However, in this case, with regards to encrypting the Firewire signal, I'm not convinced that the box is not compliant. The rules do not explicitly prohibit it, in my opinion.
What is says is that the basic service tier "shall, at a minimum, include all signals of domestic television broadcast stations...". That means as local broadcasters have begun broadcasting HDTV, and the cable companies have started to carry the channels, those channels must be included in the basic service tier.

No distinction is made b/w analog/digital or NTSC/QAM. At some point, all cable will be digital, employing QAM, anyway.
I was quoting 47CFR76.630. You are quoting 47CFR76.901. They are two different rules. Anyway, I agree with your explanation of 47CFR76.901, but I'm not seeing how it relates to the encryption of Firewire signals.
Additionally, Firewire is an FCC-mandated output. If the cable equipment is incapable of delivering the content to my consumer electronics equipment unencrypted via Firewire, then it is out of compliance. The very title of the section is "Compatibility with consumer electronics equipment."
I agree that Firewire output is mandated, but I'm not convinced that unencrypted Firewire is mandated. I don't think that the title necessarily implies that the Firewire signal must be compatible with equipment that cannot decrypt.

I agree that they are legally required to make the box compliant, if it is not compliant. However, in this case, with regards to encrypting the Firewire signal, I'm not convinced that the box is not compliant. The rules do not explicitly prohibit it, in my opinion.
Fair enough. We can go round and round on this, so I suppose we should just stay in our respective corners.

I was quoting 47CFR76.630. You are quoting 47CFR76.901. They are two different rules. Anyway, I agree with your explanation of 47CFR76.901, but I'm not seeing how it relates to the encryption of Firewire signals.
I was connecting the two rules together. I was responding to:
Anyway, the rule specifically refers to "signals carried on the basic service tier." The digital signals that are being carried on the cable system are QAM signals. I don't think that the Firewire signal (or any other signal generated by the box in your home) is considered to be a signal carried on the cable system.
47 CFR 76.901 implies local HD must be on basic tier;
47 CFR 76.630 states basic tier signals must not be encrypted;
therefore local HD signals must not be encrypted.

I see your point about the conversion from QAM to Firewire, that the QAM stream is the cable signal, and the Firewire stream is the output. I believe HDCP is always required for HDMI/DVI, regardless of whether the content being displayed is on the basic tier, and that would constitute an authentication/encryption scheme similar to DTCP over Firewire. However, the Firewire output is also an approved recording path, so I still feel the rule restricting encryption applies.

I believe HDCP is always required for HDMI/DVI, regardless of whether the content being displayed is on the basic tier, and that would constitute an authentication/encryption scheme similar to DTCP over Firewire.
I don't think that HDCP is always required. For example, there are QAM tuner cards for the PC that have DVI output without HDCP.

I know I haven't been on here in a long time, but where is the Mac version of this page at now? I've tried searching for it and can't find it anymore. I've also lost my bookmark to it when I switched from the PC to the Mac somewhere, and I was looking for some information it contained in it.

I don't think that HDCP is always required. For example, there are QAM tuner cards for the PC that have DVI output without HDCP.
I should have been more clear. I was trying to say that HDCP is always required by the STB, as in the HDMI/DVI port is always employing HDCP, whether the content you are viewing is protected or not, on the basic tier or not. So in the same sense, if they wanted to, perhaps the Firewire output could always require authentication/encryption.

Obviously requiring HDCP output for all devices that are capable of clear-QAM tuning/demodulating would be unenforceable.

Hi - first time poster, long time viewer.

I've had this setup working for about a year. WinXP2 ( and Linux/MythTV at some point), STB 1394 driver, CapDVHS, and a Comcast DCT6200. Just this week, there are some channels I can no longer record. These channels do not show as having 5C enabled. In the past, protected channels have not recorded at all ( files of size 0). Now I get an I/O dump of a similar size as a normal recording but cannot process it.

Is this just a different type of content protection?

EDIT: Whoops. Just saw that CCI is 0x02

Everything was working great last season with my CapDVHS setup, but just tried a few days ago, and could not record NBC or Fox here in Seattle (Comcast). CapDVHS did not show any information, but recorded an un-playable file. I could still record CBS and ABC as before.

I did not try any others, and have on my todo list to check if the channels are 5C encrypted, but based on this thread, I figured that was the problem. I have an HDTV tuner on another PC and was planning to use that instead. Still, CapDVHS was more convenient and reliable last season.

BTW, channels I cannot record have CCI 0x02 and RC Flag 0x00. So the theory of RC 1 driving CCI 2 apparently does not hold.

So this is how it feels... the end of HDTV recording :(

So this is how it feels... the end of HDTV recording :(


Sorry, but join the club.

I know I haven't been on here in a long time, but where is the Mac version of this page at now? I've tried searching for it and can't find it anymore. I've also lost my bookmark to it when I switched from the PC to the Mac somewhere, and I was looking for some information it contained in it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=386740

I'm a newbee and i have read several theads and i cannot find anything related to windows vista. Im also technologically handicap. Do i need a tv tuner card to take the recordings out of my dvr and into my pc

This is the first time I've tried to use my PC to capture video from my DVR box. I need a driver. I've got a motorola 3416 STB & Vista basic for my OS. I've run the firewire but can't find a driver that will install. An help would be great. I tried the Timm Moore driver but I can't figure out how to use it without media center.

BTW, channels I cannot record have CCI 0x02 and RC Flag 0x00. So the theory of RC 1 driving CCI 2 apparently does not hold.

So this is how it feels... the end of HDTV recording :(
These are local HD channels you are talking about?

I wouldn't count on anything being consistent or transparent when it comes to cable companies, content providers, or cable companies protecting content.

The only way to be sure would be to capture a QAM stream when RC Flag is 1 and look for the flag.

But I know how you feel. I've opted for a QAM tuner for all locals.

This is the first time I've tried to use my PC to capture video from my DVR box. I need a driver. I've got a motorola 3416 STB & Vista basic for my OS. I've run the firewire but can't find a driver that will install. An help would be great. I tried the Timm Moore driver but I can't figure out how to use it without media center.

I'm a newbee and i have read several theads and i cannot find anything related to windows vista. Im also technologically handicap. Do i need a tv tuner card to take the recordings out of my dvr and into my pc
You do not need a capture card if the recordings you want to transfer from your DVR are not encrypted. It's a big topic, so you're going to have to read about it. This thread is all about transferring recordings using a Firewire port.

You can start at my page, with the procedure to install the Firewire driver for Vista. Link is in my signature below.

ExDeus, Thanks for that. It works great. For us newbies though we need to know about making a save file. It took me a bit to figure out how to do that when I got the "cannot open save folder", but I'm recording now. I'll try to put it on a disk next. I'll keep posting about ant problems I encounter for all the other newbies.

Oh, by the way I'm using CapDVHS for the capture.

Okay, I was having some problems getting the file into the HDTV2DVD program, seems I needed to go to the setting tab & change the PS File Ext., 188 Bytes TS Files Ext. & 192 Bytes TS File Ext. to ".ts".

Man you guys are great!
I just copied over all my recordings to DVD with this guide from my 8300HD.
Been waiting for this day for ages.
WinXPSP2 with a firewire port on a laptop. Installed the drivers and just used VLC to stream and save according this post on another thread since CapDVHS kept crashing for me. I kept the files in ts format since I can play them fine on a PC with VLC.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=593271

If anyone has my setup, send a PM for any help. I can walk you through it. I am in Canada with Rogers cable btw. I didnt run into any encryption issues at all.

Sorry, but join the club.

Sorry, I don't want to join but thanks for the support. lol. This is nuts !

These are local HD channels you are talking about?

I wouldn't count on anything being consistent or transparent when it comes to cable companies, content providers, or cable companies protecting content.

The only way to be sure would be to capture a QAM stream when RC Flag is 1 and look for the flag.

But I know how you feel. I've opted for a QAM tuner for all locals.

I can still get all local HD channels through the firewire port. The only non-OTA HD channels I can still get via firewire are ESPN,ESPN2, FSN, and Universal HD. All the National Geographic, Discovery, Showtime, HBO, TNT, etc are now blocked. All these newly blocked channels show CCI 0x02 and RC Flag 0x00. I have not seen any channels with the RC Flag set to 1 yet.

I'm a huge boxing fan and being able to record fights on HD has been a gift from above. I'm willing to sacrifice anything but the fights...

What QAM cards do you recommend? I've learned to trust Hauppauge cards over time but seems like the HVR-1600 is not solid at this time.

I can still get all local HD channels through the firewire port. The only non-OTA HD channels I can still get via firewire are ESPN,ESPN2, FSN, and Universal HD. All the National Geographic, Discovery, Showtime, HBO, TNT, etc are now blocked. All these newly blocked channels show CCI 0x02 and RC Flag 0x00. I have not seen any channels with the RC Flag set to 1 yet.
That's why I asked if the channels you referred to were locals. You will (read: should) only see RC Flag 0x01 on local channels. "RC Flag" is "Redistribution Control Descriptor", which is the technical name for the "Broadcast Flag". Therefore you would only see it on local broadcast channels; cable channels do not use it. When the cable company includes the local broadcast channels in their line-up, however, they must include the Broadcast Flag in their retransmission over cable.

In short, the RC Flag driving the CCI value only applies to local digital (HD) channels.

What QAM cards do you recommend? I've learned to trust Hauppauge cards over time but seems like the HVR-1600 is not solid at this time.
I use BeyondTV, which I recommend, and have recently purchased an HDHomeRun, which I would highly recommend, especially because you can use it with BeyondTV or anything that normally uses an OTA tuner (the HDHomeRun is designed with drivers and software to mimic an ATSC tuner with physical, major and minor channels, when tuning via QAM). The HDHR has two tuners that can both tune QAM or ATSC, so you can configure one of each or two of the same. At the going price, it's the best value, IMHO, for two tuners of either variety.

That's why I asked if the channels you referred to were locals. You will (read: should) only see RC Flag 0x01 on local channels. "RC Flag" is "Redistribution Control Descriptor", which is the technical name for the "Broadcast Flag". Therefore you would only see it on local broadcast channels; cable channels do not use it. When the cable company includes the local broadcast channels in their line-up, however, they must include the Broadcast Flag in their retransmission over cable.

In short, the RC Flag driving the CCI value only applies to local digital (HD) channels.

That makes sense. I'll start looking around the locals to see if I find it but so far, all 0's.

I use BeyondTV, which I recommend, and have recently purchased an HDHomeRun, which I would highly recommend, especially because you can use it with BeyondTV or anything that normally uses an OTA tuner (the HDHomeRun is designed with drivers and software to mimic an ATSC tuner with physical, major and minor channels, when tuning via QAM). The HDHR has two tuners that can both tune QAM or ATSC, so you can configure one of each or two of the same. At the going price, it's the best value, IMHO, for two tuners of either variety.

Just did some research HDHomeRun and looks very promising. Thanks for the tips.

After trying to find a cure searching the thread I wasn't able to find something so I thought I'd ask. I'm with Comcast and a Motorola DCT6200/2005. I have no problem recording HD channels and digital ones 120 and above, however on the analog ones as soon as I hit record on CapDVHS the picture stops for a second and the resolution on the screen changes to 16:9 so the recorded .ts is getting the right side cut off. I'm using a regular 4:3 tv hooked up with a coax cable, and a the firewire cable going to my pc.

Current Settings on the box are as follows (when I turn off the box and hit menu):
TV Type: 4:3 Letterbox
YPBpR Output: 480i
4:3 Override: Off

Thanks!

Hey I just bought a Samsung Ln-S4096D 1080p tv. I followed the instructions on the first page of this thread, but after I install "Tuner AV/C Device" the Device Manager tells me the following:

Windows cannot start this hardware device because its configuration information (in the registry) is incomplete or damaged. (Code 19)

Does anyone have any idea what could be wrong? Is it even possible to capture HD from a tv instead of a cable box?

Any help would be appreciated,
SpaceTraveler

Hey I just bought a Samsung Ln-S4096D 1080p tv. I followed the instructions on the first page of this thread, but after I install "Tuner AV/C Device" the Device Manager tells me the following:

Windows cannot start this hardware device because its configuration information (in the registry) is incomplete or damaged. (Code 19)

Does anyone have any idea what could be wrong? Is it even possible to capture HD from a tv instead of a cable box?

Any help would be appreciated,
SpaceTravelerMight be worth looking into VividLogic ($99). Look for threads on here about "firebus" (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=751960). I haven't tried it with my Mits LT-46131, but it seems like it works well for some people while others haven't had much luck with it.

I am currently using a SA3250HD STB from TWC in Rochester NY. I am having some difficulties getting the Firewire drivers to appear after installing the firestb.msi package. I plug in the firewire from the stb to PC and I get a message about "USB - Device Unknown". Thing is, I'm not using a USB i'm using a firewire, which is a multi-firewire-usb-audio front header port. The problem may be the Firewire card itself. I still have more testing to do on that to see if it even works.

My question is, 1. Is there any other drivers or things I should check to make sure my firewire card is installed properly? 2. Does having a SA3250HD STB, necessarily mean I can record, or does it depend on which area you live?

Thanks!

Win Vista 64-bit doesn't allow unsigned drivers. I forgot about that stipulation.

So yeah, using Virtual PC, VMware, or dual-booting to XP is your best bet.

I couldnt get the 8-7-2007 drivers to work under Vista x64 either.. It didnt like them, said no drivers found when I tried to do the driver install (via device manager).

I think only VMware may support onboard firewire (passthrough), if it even does.. i'll have to get a vmware workstation virtual machine running and see if it flows through. But I wonder, even if this does work, it may be too "slow" to do real time capture from a virtual workstation, causing dropped frames.

Hi everyone,
I was recording fine from my Motorola DVR with Motorola drivers. Unfortunately now nine squares during playback have appeared no matter what tool I use to record and what I use for playback. I read somewhere that an unregistered version of Elecard will do it, so I registered my software. Still 9 moving squares. Any thoughts?

Dani

Man you guys are great!
I just copied over all my recordings to DVD with this guide from my 8300HD.
Been waiting for this day for ages.
WinXPSP2 with a firewire port on a laptop. Installed the drivers and just used VLC to stream and save according this post on another thread since CapDVHS kept crashing for me. I kept the files in ts format since I can play them fine on a PC with VLC.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=593271

If anyone has my setup, send a PM for any help. I can walk you through it. I am in Canada with Rogers cable btw. I didnt run into any encryption issues at all.

Are your recordings error free? If so, please list your settings. All of the user posts I have seen concerning the 8300HD and VLC result in badly pixelated recordings with audio drops.

Hi everyone,
I was recording fine from my Motorola DVR with Motorola drivers. Unfortunately now nine squares during playback have appeared no matter what tool I use to record and what I use for playback. I read somewhere that an unregistered version of Elecard will do it, so I registered my software. Still 9 moving squares. Any thoughts?

Dani
Well, you're not doing any encoding when recording, you're simply capturing the bits and saving them, so I don't think that's an issue.

I suspect the Elecard decoder is still the issue. I would use a different decoder than Elecard, anyway.

You have a number of free options:

1) Use something like DirectShow Filter Mgr (http://www.softella.com/dsfm/index.en.htm) to lower the priority on the Moonlight/Elecard MPEG-2 decoder or raise the priority on another MPEG-2 decoder. That will allow all DirectShow players to change which decoder is used, but you have to have another decoder on your system.

2) Install something like the CCCP (http://cccp-project.net/), which will install a different MPEG-2 decoder for you to use, in addition to two players (ZoomPlayer and Media Player Classic) that will allow you to select which decoder you want to use inside that player, or to use the DirectShow settings on your system. I prefer ZoomPlayer for just about any media format.

3) Install and use VLC (http://www.videolan.org/), which will use its own decoders.

If you have Nero or PowerDVD, you can also open your files inside one of them, as they use their own internal decoders as well.

I finally have 4.1 and am about to hook up a LaCie 500GB external HD. Is it possible to use Firewire or is USB 2.0 the only connect?

Also, do you or anyone know if it's possible to keep the external HD 'awake' so recordings can be made during the night, etc.?

Thank you.

Bill

I finally have 4.1 and am about to hook up a LaCie 500GB external HD. Is it possible to use Firewire or is USB 2.0 the only connect?
Hmm... you're trying to hook up an external HDD directly to your DVR? In that case, you need to have a Scientific Atlanta box (maybe there are others that work, too, but I am only aware that Sci Atl works and Motorolas do not), and it needs to use eSATA, not Firewire or USB.

Also, do you or anyone know if it's possible to keep the external HD 'awake' so recordings can be made during the night, etc.?
If you're talking about hooking up to a PC, then the external HDD should follow your power settings for all HDDs. In fact, your drive case may even ignore those settings and keep your disk on 24/7.

If you're connecting to your DVR, I think it will stay always-on.

I Have Motorola Dct 6200 Box And A Firewire Conection. Should I Have Any Problems?

Sam:(

I'm using SA 8300HDC on XP MCE. CapVHS crashes after less than 20 seconds every time. Any fix available? The funny thing is that if I play the video on DVR in slow motion (without sound) it does NOT crash. I'm guessing it has something to do with audio, maybe mulitplexing causing it to crash? Hope that provides some clues.

Thanks ExDeus! You fixed it! :) I followed precisely your instructions and all is working without the nine squares.

However, the recorded files are in some odd format (although they have a .mpg extension). Whenever I convert them to anything else I just get a green box. Well, you're not doing any encoding when recording, you're simply capturing the bits and saving them, so I don't think that's an issue. Im using CapDVHS and apparently it's using some odd CODEC or encryption that no other player can read. When I transfer the file type to AVI or another type, I just get green. Also no one else says they can read the file. Thoughts?


Thanks again, Im getting there!

Dani





I suspect the Elecard decoder is still the issue. I would use a different decoder than Elecard, anyway.

You have a number of free options:

1) Use something like DirectShow Filter Mgr (http://www.softella.com/dsfm/index.en.htm) to lower the priority on the Moonlight/Elecard MPEG-2 decoder or raise the priority on another MPEG-2 decoder. That will allow all DirectShow players to change which decoder is used, but you have to have another decoder on your system.

2) Install something like the CCCP (http://cccp-project.net/), which will install a different MPEG-2 decoder for you to use, in addition to two players (ZoomPlayer and Media Player Classic) that will allow you to select which decoder you want to use inside that player, or to use the DirectShow settings on your system. I prefer ZoomPlayer for just about any media format.

3) Install and use VLC (http://www.videolan.org/), which will use its own decoders.

If you have Nero or PowerDVD, you can also open your files inside one of them, as they use their own internal decoders as well.[/QUOTE]

However, the recorded files are in some odd format (although they have a .mpg extension). Whenever I convert them to anything else I just get a green box.
By default, CapDVHS uses .mpg for everything, but you should use .ts or .tp.

Open CapDVHS, go to the Setting tab, change both '188 Bytes TS File Ext' and '192 Bytes TS File Ext' to ".ts".

On the files you have already, just change the file extension from ".mpg" to ".ts". MPG files are MPEG Program Stream files, while TS files are MPEG Transport Stream files. Changing the extension should indicate to your programs which splitters/decoders to use.

Hi.. well I changed the file to a .ts extension that I already have (important files as they're my first TV debut's, and the DVR died so they're all I have). Anyway, I then used my AVS Media Converter to create an AVI or a DVD recording. It said parsing file (which it hadn't done before) but then continued to create nothing but a green screen. Any ideas on what I can do with the existing files to make them usable?


Thanks again for everything.

Dani


By default, CapDVHS uses .mpg for everything, but you should use .ts or .tp.

Open CapDVHS, go to the Setting tab, change both '188 Bytes TS File Ext' and '192 Bytes TS File Ext' to ".ts".

On the files you have already, just change the file extension from ".mpg" to ".ts". MPG files are MPEG Program Stream files, while TS files are MPEG Transport Stream files. Changing the extension should indicate to your programs which splitters/decoders to use.

Hi.. well I changed the file to a .ts extension that I already have (important files as they're my first TV debut's, and the DVR died so they're all I have). Anyway, I then used my AVS Media Converter to create an AVI or a DVD recording. It said parsing file (which it hadn't done before) but then continued to create nothing but a green screen. Any ideas on what I can do with the existing files to make them usable?


Thanks again for everything.

Dani
You shouldn't need to convert to AVI. If you just want to play back the files, then they should play in most media players as-is.

If you want to burn to DVD-Video, then try giving your burning software the TS file directly; it might do the conversion on the fly. If it doesn't, then look for a TS->MPG or TS->VOB conversion, rather than TS->AVI.

(important files as they're my first TV debut's, and the DVR died so they're all I have)
Do tell, where can we see you? :D

Last night I tried to record the recorded Emmy on Fox HD from the DVR. It started OK but CapDVHS crashed after about 2 minutes. Error message box stated that the CapDVHS encountered errors and that it needed to be closed. It happened to different programs, like Emmy Countdown and Post Show. I had the same error on two different computers.

Did anyone have the same problem? Or, did anyone encounter the same problem before? How can I fix it?

ALL OTHER problems in the DVR were recorded fine. I suspect that it's something to do with Fox's signal.


Thanks in advance.

MFMahler

Besides the Blackmagic Intensity - which offers HDMI input, is there any other card that allows for DVI-D or HDMI input. I am working on a portable video recorder for Video Production applications, and being able to record a digital signal would be a big plus.
Thanks!

I originally posted this on its own thread but I was told to put it here, so sorry for reposting!

I've been experimenting with FireWire recording from my HTPC. I have the drivers installed, my STB is detected, and all seems fine. So I begin working on a DirectX graph. Well I started out by using some of the graphs I found online. No go, I tried editting them, still no good. I even tried simply using VLC to play the stream, in each case, I have the exact same problem.

I have an SA3250HD. Perhaps I'm stupid, but when I look in my 3250's diagnostics screen, it makes it seem as though 5C is turned off for all channels, even HBO and VOD. I'll verify I am checking correctly. I tune to a channel, 300 (HBO), I enter the diagnostics channel (911), and when I go to the copy prot screen I see "EMI = 4 Copy Freely CCI = 4 Copy Freely" Doesn't this mean 5C is off? And, if it's off, I should be able to view the stream, yes?

So let's delve into my problems...

First of all, when I set my STB to an analog channel, say 52 (Discovery channel), I get a perfect stream. From what I read, I should not be able to receive analog channels over FireWire from the SA3250HD since it does not includes an MPEG2 encoder. Any idea why I would be getting anything at all there?

Next I switch to a digitial standard definition channel, say 106 (Science channel). I get both audio and video. However, the audio is choppy, as well as the video. It's almost as though I'm not getting every frame. Next I try a digital HD channel say 253 (FOXHD). At this point I get no stream at all. There is no audio, and no video.

In any case, I'm just wondering what, if any, of the problems I've reported can be attributed to 5C, and for those problems that can't be, what could the problem be?

Thank you to anyone out there who can provide some help!

I'm having similar problems with Verizon Fios. It says that 5c is turned off for all of my HD channels, but only the local HDs will record HD via Firewire. Is there another indicator as to which channels are protected?

As a rule of thumb, if CapDVHS displays the resolution and other informations when you hit record, then you should be able to capture that channel. If no informations show up, then the copy protection is on and there's nothing you can do..

The copy protection can be switch on for individual programs, this might explains those issues with some of FOX programming...

When trying to build a simple graph, try to connect the Firewire Tuner device directly to a dump filter (like the DVBPortal HDTV Reference Dump Filter (http://www.dvbportal.de/projects/hdtvdump/)). I know that with my PACE 551HD, it's the best I can do. The signal contains 50-80% of null packets with many errors (VLC chokes on it), so I basically have to run the file through VideoReDo quick stream fix to correct it.

I'm having similar problems with Verizon Fios. It says that 5c is turned off for all of my HD channels, but only the local HDs will record HD via Firewire. Is there another indicator as to which channels are protected?

Yes, even if 5C=0, the CCI flag can be set to restrict copying.

On a Moto box, the 5C, CCI, DRM, or RC_Flag being anything other than 0x00 indicates protection is being applied.

With the SA box, I don't really understand their value of "4", as the valid values according to the spec are 0x00-0x03. "4" may be a special code that means something else, as 0 should indicate 'Copy Freely'.

I have what I think is a Motorola DCT6412 (not 100% sure, it has no model # on the front) I've been recording via firewire on this box for a while, but recently it's decided to not DVR CBS HD all the time. Most of the time whatever I DVR just doesn't show up in the recorded programs list at all after recording. Combine that with that fact that I just got a HDTV with HDMI (this box only has DVI) I'm going to go to Comcast and have them give me a new cable box.

I asked customer service what the current box they give out is and they said DCT6416 and DCT3416, depending on where you live. Just wondering if both of these boxes have the ability to record the same way via firewire as the 6412?

I already have the drivers and everything setup, so hopefully I'll be able to plug the new box in and record without a problem.

Just wondering if both of these boxes have the ability to record the same way via firewire as the 6412?
Make sure to ask for a box with the IEEE 1394 (Firewire tends to not mean anything to them) port active, as the FCC requires them to provide one when asked...

I asked customer service what the current box they give out is and they said DCT6416 and DCT3416, depending on where you live. Just wondering if both of these boxes have the ability to record the same way via firewire as the 6412?
Yes.

Hi There, I'm new to this forum and I did a search to find out if VLC (Videolan) can be used to stream video from a firewire camcorder with a XP box but this thread is way too long, maybe someone can help me. Thanks

I'm completely new to this and I own a Motorolla DCT3416. Just to be completely certain, if I have shows and movies already recorded on my DVR, the firewire method will NOT work? Just want to make sure because I'll need to buy a 50ft cable to get to my PC just to get started on this.

If I have to use component cables to transfer the data via a capture card like the Canopus ADVC100 into something like Windows Movie Maker or Adobe Premeire Pro 2, what are the optimal settings for both analog and digital cable? I'm curious about how people are doing it to get the best results. Thanks guys.

Just to be completely certain, if I have shows and movies already recorded on my DVR, the firewire method will NOT work?
It depends on the provider/receiver... Some people can't record Live TV directly from the Firewire port, but they can record the playback from the DVR, while others find the opposite to be true...

It depends on the provider/receiver... Some people can't record Live TV directly from the Firewire port, but they can record the playback from the DVR, while others find the opposite to be true...

Ahhh, I see. Well, I have Comcast and use a Motorola DCT3416 HD DVR box. Would you happen to know what I'd be able to do with it?

Hi there!

I've got my drivers and my 6-pin to 6-pin Firewire cable, I'm all set for the moment of truth... and nothing happens when I connect the cable.:confused:

Yes, I plugged the cable into the left-side (when facing the front) port on the STB.

Yes, it's a brand-new cable.

Yes, I tried all 3 of the Firewire ports on the computer, and XP says they're all working.

I checked the diagnostics on the STB, and it indicates that the 1394 ports are Enabled ("Yes") but not Active ("No").

Have I missed something, or should I return the cable (presuming it's bad) and get a replacement?

Anyone? Can I get a clue please? :rolleyes:

Many thanks for any and all input!!!

I'm completely new to this and I own a Motorolla DCT3416. Just to be completely certain, if I have shows and movies already recorded on my DVR, the firewire method will NOT work? Just want to make sure because I'll need to buy a 50ft cable to get to my PC just to get started on this.
The Firewire spec caps the max cable length at 15ft, so you're gambling on any length over that. See a discussion here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=3322511&postcount=6) about a cable with a built-in repeater. Regardless, I think you should bring your PC to your STB to test it out first.

If I have to use component cables to transfer the data via a capture card like the Canopus ADVC100 into something like Windows Movie Maker or Adobe Premeire Pro 2, what are the optimal settings for both analog and digital cable? I'm curious about how people are doing it to get the best results. Thanks guys.
You'd need to ask this in a different thread. This one is about Firewire transfers, not capture cards.

Well, I have Comcast and use a Motorola DCT3416 HD DVR box. Would you happen to know what I'd be able to do with it?
I have that configuration, and I can capture both live and recorded material from the DVR, but that doesn't necessarily mean you will be able to. I would bet that you will be fine with that configuration, but it can also depend on your local cable provider, not just the national company. The biggest variable is the number of channels that are encrypted over Firewire (you cannot capture them). Typically, the premium channels are encrypted, but some have no channels encrypted.

Hi there!

I've got my drivers and my 6-pin to 6-pin Firewire cable, I'm all set for the moment of truth... and nothing happens when I connect the cable.:confused:
1) Try the other port on the STB.
2) Unplug the STB, wait 30 secs, plug back in, wait 10 mins, try again.
3) Try a different cable.

The Firewire spec caps the max cable length at 15ft, so you're gambling on any length over that. See a discussion here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=3322511&postcount=6) about a cable with a built-in repeater. Regardless, I think you should bring your PC to your STB to test it out first.

I have that configuration, and I can capture both live and recorded material from the DVR, but that doesn't necessarily mean you will be able to. I would bet that you will be fine with that configuration, but it can also depend on your local cable provider, not just the national company. The biggest variable is the number of channels that are encrypted over Firewire (you cannot capture them). Typically, the premium channels are encrypted, but some have no channels encrypted.

Ok cool. I guess I'll only know if I actually try it out. Thanks so much for the detailed information, you've have been a huge help on this.

Anyone had any luck with recording to a PC from the SA4240HDC STB from Cox cable? I was able to install ExDeus's drivers without issue (detects as an Explorer 4250HD), but CapDVHS crashes as soon as I try to start the recording, and VLC doesn't even bring up a video window. I have checked to make sure the channel I am on is not 5c-enabled.

but CapDVHS crashes as soon as I try to start the recording, and VLC doesn't even bring up a video window. I have checked to make sure the channel I am on is not 5c-enabled.
Another possibility, is to use GraphEdit to build a simple graph to dump the recording to a file... If that works, I do have a simple application to make use of the corresponding graph (GrafCorder (http://forums.snapstream.com/vb/showthread.php?t=40076))... Chances are that you might need to run the resulting file through VideReDo's quickstream fix, as the output of your STB doesn't seem all that clean... ;)

Sorry, going off topic a bit:

Other than HDTV-to-MPEG freeware, what other software do you use to edit (crop out commercials, split into DVD size, join, etc)?

I like HDTV-to_MPEG, but sometimes it's not able to edit/open some .TS

Thx

Sorry, going off topic a bit:

Other than HDTV-to-MPEG freeware, what other software do you use to edit (crop out commercials, split into DVD size, join, etc)?

I like HDTV-to_MPEG, but sometimes it's not able to edit/open some .TS

Thx
VideoRedo will do what you're looking for... $49

After a couple reboots, I was able to get it almost working. CapDVHS now gets channel information before crashing, and VLC will display the picture with heavy breakups and green blocks. I had the same problem a few years ago with a 3250HD on a different PC with different cables and a different firewire card, so I wonder if the blame lies with a crappy Firewire implementation in the SA firmware.

I will second the VideoReDo recommendation; it works great for the recordings I get from my tuner cards.

Anything new on a hack to disable 5c copy protection? I just want to be able to backup programs on a dvd for personal use until I buy a new dvd recorder.

I wouldn't count on anything being consistent or transparent when it comes to cable companies, content providers, or cable companies protecting content.

Well a very disappointing start to my Thanksgiving weekend :(

I brought my DCT6416 and a portable TV to the computer room; hooked everything up; installed drivers and the setup was looking good. Started CapDVHS and recorded files full of bytes but nothing plays back with the Elecard player. My guess is that since CapDVHS didn't show anything in the "data info" window; I had a setup problem or as the many posts by ExDeus indicated copy protection was rearing its ugly head. Going through some of the channels I can make sense of some of it but there are a few anamolies that throw me.



ANALOGUE CHANNELS
RECORDABLE CLEAR

DIGITAL, NETWORK HD & LOCAL HD CHANNELS
NO REC 5C=NO
CCI=0x02 APS=0x00 RC FLAG= 0x00
CIT=0x00 DRM=0x00

288 DISCHD
RECORDABLE 5C=NO
CCI=0x00 APS=0x00 RC FLAG= 0x00
CIT=0x00 DRM=0x00

295 TMNHD
RECORDABLE 5C=NO
CCI=0x00 APS=0x00 RC FLAG= 0x00
CIT=0x00 DRM=0x01

298 MHD
RECORDABLE 5C=NO
CCI=0x00 APS=0x00 RC FLAG= 0x00
CIT=0x00 DRM=0x01

299 VideoOnDemand -TMNHD
NO REC 5C=NO
CCI=0x00 APS=0x00 RC FLAG= 0x00
CIT=0x00 DRM=0x01



I can't find anywhere in the diagnostic pages of the DCT6416 that would explain why 295 TMNHD and 299 TMNHD Video-On-Demand respectively exhibit recordable and non-recordable behaviours?

Well it looks like time to put up an antenna and fire up my Samsung SIR-TS160 for those OTA goodies.

Thanks to all the posters and AVS FORUM, I was at least able to give it a shot.

This whole thread is devoted to doing exactly that.

If you have installed the meistb package, you select the A/VC Monitor in Device Manager and INSTALL DRIVERS for by pointing it to where you installed the meistb drivers and selecting to manually load them since the .inf file doesn't have the Mits TV device info, so they won't load automatically.

I have the WD-57831.

I have spent last three days in trying to do this and may have messed up my original setup, so any help with clean instruction will be helpful.

Setup: TV- WD-57731 / Firewire Connection / Compaq Laptop / AMD Turion 64 / 2 GB RAM / Vista Ultimate

Tried installing the following drivers:
firestb_vistarc1; meistb; srb_firewire_drivers_2007-08-07
Each one was installed after removing the previous ones if they installed at all.

The errors were typically:
"Windows was unable to install your Unknown Device"
""Insert the disc that came with your Mitsubishi YR2006 AV/C Monitor"

The software tried are CapDVHS; DTVR (could not install) and DVCapture.

I know that some of you have already succeeded at doing this (like bwall23). So help - please help. I am not a slacker but at this time I am almost giving up due to the confusion with MOTO, STBs etc.

So direct instruction / help will be much appreciated.

Thanks

Anoop

Anything new on a hack to disable 5c copy protection? I just want to be able to backup programs on a dvd for personal use until I buy a new dvd recorder.
Nope. 5C DTCP is still a secure, closed protocol.

I have spent last three days in trying to do this and may have messed up my original setup, so any help with clean instruction will be helpful.

Setup: TV- WD-57731 / Firewire Connection / Compaq Laptop / AMD Turion 64 / 2 GB RAM / Vista Ultimate

Tried installing the following drivers:
firestb_vistarc1; meistb; srb_firewire_drivers_2007-08-07
Each one was installed after removing the previous ones if they installed at all.

The errors were typically:
"Windows was unable to install your Unknown Device"
""Insert the disc that came with your Mitsubishi YR2006 AV/C Monitor"

The software tried are CapDVHS; DTVR (could not install) and DVCapture.

I know that some of you have already succeeded at doing this (like bwall23). So help - please help. I am not a slacker but at this time I am almost giving up due to the confusion with MOTO, STBs etc.

So direct instruction / help will be much appreciated.

Thanks

Anoop
There are several different types of AV/C device profiles: AV/C Tape, AV/C Tuner, and AV/C Monitor are the relevant ones here.

I haven't tried it with a Mits TV, but what you need to do is force an AV/C Tape driver to load for an AV/C Monitor device. Currently, the driver packages, including mine, support loading the AV/C Tape driver for the various STBs that support the AV/C Tuner profile.

When you connect your TV to your PC, what devices are available? When you tried to force a driver, what was the name of the device you were trying to force the driver for?

There are several different types of AV/C device profiles: AV/C Tape, AV/C Tuner, and AV/C Monitor are the relevant ones here.

I haven't tried it with a Mits TV, but what you need to do is force an AV/C Tape driver to load for an AV/C Monitor device. Currently, the driver packages, including mine, support loading the AV/C Tape driver for the various STBs that support the AV/C Tuner profile.

When you connect your TV to your PC, what devices are available? When you tried to force a driver, what was the name of the device you were trying to force the driver for?

It shows Mitsubishi YR2006 AV/C Monitor and two unknown devices.

In stb_firewire_drivers_2007-08-07, I have three drivers. I tried, probably, all combinations i.e. Mitsu.. with first driver ( meistb.sys ) then second and so on. Then I tried for unknow 1 and then with unknown 2. In most case, it errored out. If it did not then it would install it but give an error saying that it could not start the device.

It may be stupid question but should the STB driver be the same for a TV device like Mitsu?

It shows Mitsubishi YR2006 AV/C Monitor and two unknown devices.

In stb_firewire_drivers_2007-08-07, I have three drivers. I tried, probably, all combinations i.e. Mitsu.. with first driver ( meistb.sys ) then second and so on. Then I tried for unknow 1 and then with unknown 2. In most case, it errored out. If it did not then it would install it but give an error saying that it could not start the device.
I'm not running Vista, and I don't have it in front of me, but loosely, you want to do something like you do in XP:

Run the update/install for the AV/C Monitor device.
When given the option, you want to 'Browse my computer for driver software'.
Select 'Let me pick from a list of device drivers on my computer'.
Select 'Have Disk...', browse to the location with the firestb.inf file and select it.
After loading the file, uncheck the 'Show compatible hardware' box.
Select the Tuner AV/C Device.

It may be stupid question but should the STB driver be the same for a TV device like Mitsu?
Yes. We are forcing all devices to use a D-VHS driver for the AV/C Tape profile. That is what receives a stream and makes it available to write to disk, like would be done with a D-VHS deck.

I'm not running Vista, and I don't have it in front of me, but loosely, you want to do something like you do in XP:

Run the update/install for the AV/C Monitor device.
When given the option, you want to 'Browse my computer for driver software'.
Select 'Let me pick from a list of device drivers on my computer'.
Select 'Have Disk...', browse to the location with the firestb.inf file and select it.
After loading the file, uncheck the 'Show compatible hardware' box.
Select the Tuner AV/C Device.


Yes. We are forcing all devices to use a D-VHS driver for the AV/C Tape profile. That is what receives a stream and makes it available to write to disk, like would be done with a D-VHS deck.


Vista gives an error saying that this driver must be for 32-bit windows. Probably the firstb.inf file is not in the right format.

I need the latest firewire dirvers but it looks like exdeus' site is down. Help?

EDIT: Looks like just the exdeus cname is down- if I change the URL's to home.comcast.net/~exdeus it works fine.

Anyone know if there's a way to fool Timmmoore's mytray app into recognizing the 3416 or 3200 boxes? The device ID's are not recognized by the app as valid tuners.

Vista gives an error saying that this driver must be for 32-bit windows. Probably the firstb.inf file is not in the right format.I no longer use it since nothing but local OTA broadcasts would record for me, but it did work for me under XP. Maybe it's something to do with Vista (64 bit?).

I no longer use it since nothing but local OTA broadcasts would record for me, but it did work for me under XP. Maybe it's something to do with Vista (64 bit?).
bwall23

Are you running Vista? If yes then please tell me the drivers and capture software that you use.

Thanks

1) Try the other port on the STB.
2) Unplug the STB, wait 30 secs, plug back in, wait 10 mins, try again.
3) Try a different cable.

Thanks ExDeus!

Almost directly after posting, I decided to test my Firewire ports by plugging in my Handycam, just to make sure the ports were actually working. You guessed it -- no joy, no matter how I did the connection or which port I tried.

So, at this point I think it's a computer issue, though I have no idea what the problem might be, as XP reports all of the Firewire ports are working.

Before I dig into that, I'll give your option 2 a try (already tried option 1, and think I'll wait to try option 3 until after I achieve some sort of connection somewhere with my Firewire).

In the interim, does it look like my STB is ready to go, with Firewire "Enabled" but not yet "Active"?

THANKS AGAIN!!

Vista gives an error saying that this driver must be for 32-bit windows. Probably the firstb.inf file is not in the right format.
The driver works for Vista x86 (32-bit), but not Vista x64. That is a limitation of Vista x64 not allowing unsigned drivers, and even if the driver is forced to install, it will not load. If you have Vista x64, you are out of luck for now.

bwall23

Are you running Vista? If yes then please tell me the drivers and capture software that you use.

Thanks

The .inf file and the same drivers work on XP, MCE and Vista x86. I have successfully installed and used the drivers and CapDVHS with Vista, as have many other users.

Hey all,

I wrote a small WinXP program about a year ago (then named "miniTube") for a Motorola 6208 box that displays a small TV-like set with the VLC video on the screen. This allows me to place the small TV anywhere on my monitor and watch TV (via firewire connection) while I do other tasks. A right click on the frame of miniTube will pop-up a menu where one can change the channels (if Timmmoores remote command files have been installed), choose from one of three TV styles, pull up a channel guide via the internet, and a few other such options.

This was all done initially to remove the command line interface for the changing of channels, I wanted a windows based solution. Is this worth pursuing? Have I missed similar software that currently uses a simpler interface for our HTPC needs?

Let me know if there might be a bit of interest. I still have a long way to go before I get a final package and I dont want to spend too much time on something that wont be rewarding. As is, the program works for my current needs so I have attained what I originally sought.

Thanks gang,
Mike

I can't get Timmore's mytray, or Vista MC to recognize my Motorola 6200 STB. I was able to change the channel on the STB through cmd. In mytray it only shows Tuner1/Tuner2, but nothing next to them. When trying to run the TV signal setup with VMC it only shows the two tuners for my tv tuner (Aver Purity 500). Any suggestions?

Seems that everyone is concerned with the spotty implementation
of 5c and the CC flags. I would think that a better approach might
be political, after all, they did have these open at one time and
doesn't that imply a level of performance that we were lead to
believe (and paid for at that rate) that we no longer receive.

The equivalent of getting a half-gallon of gas after paying
for the full gallon that we received in the past.

Maybe a better approach is to force the issue by demanding
a reduction in rates for crippled channels.

I'm thinking that the A-la-carte proposal should include an
ability to force the cable distribution to take it on the nose
for the reduced flexibility as well as properly published
disclaimers for the reduction in service level in the accompanying
broadcasts so that 'normal' consumers know they are getting
screwed by the MPAA.

Maybe by now, I was paying 10.00 per month per HBO, SHO
etc; and that at that rate (including the 5C opened) it was
worth it to me.

Now that it's crippled, pehaps it's only worth 3.00 per month
per service. We should demand the cable providers, and
the local (in their pocket) authorities are made aware of the
closing of the services and demand rate reductions.

Perhaps someone can suggest or author a proper letter to the
FCC from the EFF ( i would think they would like to be involved
with stuffing a sock in mouth of the MPAA and RIAA).

I have a bunch more to say on this as well as other copyright
issues, let's see what percolates.

jr_wtf

Seems that everyone is concerned with the spotty implementation
of 5c and the CC flags. I would think that a better approach might
be political, after all, they did have these open at one time and
doesn't that imply a level of performance that we were lead to
believe (and paid for at that rate) that we no longer receive.
Devil's advocate: Having any channels but must-carries available via Firewire without 5C DTCP protection has never been promised functionality. DTCP has always been a part of the picture with mandated Firewire outputs, so the fact that it wasn't applied at one time was added functionality you got for free.

Do these drivers exist?

Do these drivers exist?

I don't think so from above post.

I don't think they have even came out with anything for windows XP x64 yet.


With Vista X64 it is a issue with non-reg. driver being able to install.

Do these drivers exist?

I don't think so from above post.

I don't think they have even came out with anything for windows XP x64 yet.

With Vista X64 it is a issue with non-reg. driver being able to install.
Well, that's not entirely true. There is an option from the F8 menu when booting Vista x64 to install an unsigned driver, however the AV/C Tuner device doesn't show in Device Mgr to install the driver.

If you can boot with F8 in the unsigned mode, and find the Tuner device to install the driver for, then you'll have gotten farther than other users. You could try forcing the 32-bit driver at that point.

For years I've recorded over Firewire with Windows XP & the Moto 6412 with pretty much no problems - except I was not able to record the premiums.

Now with the SA Explorer 3250HD (recent TW to Comcast take-over) and Vista Ultimate (x86) I am having all kinds of problems and am coming to the conclusion that it's probably a broadcast flag issue... In CapVHS I can record the locals (cbs, nbc, pbs, etc) and that's it. I cannot record ESPN, Discovery, any SD channels and our local FOX station (WFTX - beacuse they are punks and held out on offering free feeds to the cable companies). These are channels which I am still able to record just fine with the old XP-Moto setup in another room. When I hit record on these channels in Vista, CapDVHS just unexpectedly quits and I get "MPEG2 Transport Stream Capture has stopped working" and I can't record anything successfully until restarting (at which time I can still only record the handful of "free" OTA locals.)

So I guess my question is if the limitations I'm experiencing are mostly due to the update from the Motorola to the SA - or if it's an XP vs. Vista issue? ie. does the SA handle broadcast flags differently? or does Vista have some more built-in copy protection schemes that XP does not?

I still have both setups, because I don't want to swap out the Moto box for a Comcast SA, until I can get an SA to work fully over firewire... I guess the next step (if no one here has any insights) is I'll try swapping the STBs to try them with the opposite operating systems and narrow things down from there...

So I guess my question is if the limitations I'm experiencing are mostly due to the update from the Motorola to the SA
Most likely the Scientific Atlanta firmware is to blame, they took longer than Motorola to get the Firewire ports working and never produced reliable results...

Well I got this awesome procedure working!!

I was reading through all of the posts and a it talks about being able to hit PLAY on a recorded show and have it record also?

Well when I hit PLAY on my recorded show off my DCT3416, it just records whatever channel I have the DVR on, and NOT what is playing off my recorded content.

I Figured this was normal and couldn't be done because of the EMI Copy ONCE etc..

but I read on forums people said they had done it, and copied their Recorded Media off their boxes by just playing it 'live'

Anybody gotten this to work or just the live TV? Live TV works great.

Well when I hit PLAY on my recorded show off my DCT3416, it just records whatever channel I have the DVR on, and NOT what is playing off my recorded content.
That's strange, normally all the outputs should be displaying the same thing, in that case the playback... Have you tried the other fireport(s)?

Anybody gotten this to work or just the live TV? Live TV works great.
Yeah, it works, I always use a recorded program.

The Firewire output is an audio/video output, meant for TVs and D-VHS decks. It is supposed to display the same thing as the HDMI or analog outputs.
As suggested, try the other Firewire port, or get a new box. Sounds like that one is defective.

I tried both firewire ports, same thing..

it just records whatever channel I was watching.

Does it have anything to do with being a dual tuner? I will call and try to get a new one then and let you guys know.

I tried both firewire ports, same thing..

it just records whatever channel I was watching.

Does it have anything to do with being a dual tuner? I will call and try to get a new one then and let you guys know.

Does your TV have a FireWire video selection? On my Mits set, I start the playback on my DVR and set the TV selection to FireWire (not Cable [component input 2], which is how I normally watch cable programs). Then I can capture the DVR recording to my laptop.

I need some help please.

I did everything that was said on this thread. My laptop identifies the tuner. In device manager it shows AV/Tuner and AV/Panel. When I open the CAPDVHS software, the Data tab shows the tuner and I did all under "settings" as specified here. When I hit record, it does record but when I hit stop after a minute the output file has 0KB. Nothing recorded.

Can somebody tell me what am I doing wrong ?? I need to copy the cartoon stuff for my 3 year old daughther for upcoming trip.

thank you

ExDeus,
Is it possible to get a device driver for the new motorola stb dch3200?
I haven't gone thru this whole thread, but I would like to know if doing this will allow me to change the channels on the stb?

thanks

This is a bit off-topic, but I'm sure it is a subject of interest to many.

This week, Tivo enabled high-definition file copying. No Firewire required. All you need is a web browser. This is not a some hack; this is an officially supported feature in the latest software.

Tivo users can copy high-definition MPGs from DVR to PC using 100Mbps ethernet and 802.11g (wireless). Multiple recordings can be queued and series can be set to automatically transfer every week after they are recorded. High-definition recordings can be viewed as they are transferred on PCs and Macs anywhere in your home.

For more information, see the Tivo threads, but two screenshots are attached below:

http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/tivoweb_small.gif

http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/tivodesktop_small.jpg

This is a bit off-topic, but I'm sure it is a subject of interest to many.

Tivo has now enabled high-definition file copying (via network) on the TivoHD and Tivo Series3. For more information, see the Tivo threads, but screenshots are below:

Great, now waiting for it to be hacked so all shows can be transferred to the PC. :D

I have been having a problem with capdvhs lately. The timer I set to record shows at certain times does not work. It just does not record when it is set to record. It worked before, and now I noticed it doesn't work. What gives?

I was on board with Tim's firestb application from day one and have since given it up due to numerous problems and the fact that I picked up an HDHomerun. Now, I'm looking back into it because 5c is not enabled on a few channels that are not available in ClearQAM in my area.
Unfortunately, I'm having the same issue I wa having when I gave up.

The tunertracker.dll is completely confused. Explanation:
I'm watching a show, and hit record.
I then try and change channels to watch something while this show is recording.
The tuner being used by Windows MC does not change over to the free tuner. The free tuner merrily changes channels, but it's still displaying the show I was watching when I hit 'record'.
Also, if 2 shows are scheduled to begin recording at the same time, it's a crap shoot as to if they are going to be recorded correctly. For example:
I have SportsCenter set to record at 12
My wife has House Hunters scheduled to record at 12.
when the recordings are complete, sometimes the show labeled House Hunters is actually SportsCenter and vice-versa!

Has anyone messed around with tunertracker.dll of found some way around this? I've pulled the tunertracker.dll from the XP build and registered it using regsvr32, but the same problem persists.
I'm running Vista Premium, using Vista Media center.

Any ideas?

ExDeus,
Is it possible to get a device driver for the new motorola stb dch3200?
I haven't gone thru this whole thread, but I would like to know if doing this will allow me to change the channels on the stb?

thanks
I updated the driver package. Download away.

I have a SA4250HD, the drivers seem to install fine and the devices are recognized, I disabled the other two unknown devices. However, VLC still hangs when I try to open the stream. I got it work initially, but now it just crashes, any ideas?

I got it work initially, but now it just crashes, any ideas?
It could be that the signal is so bad that VLC doesn't like it... Try using CapDVHS and running the resulting file through VideoReDo quick stream fix...

Having trouble capturing recorded content from my DVR on XP, but not on Mac.

I have a motorola dct6416 III and I am having no problems getting non-5c live content onto my computers using CapDVHS on Windows XP SP2 and using Virtual DVHS from the Apple Firewire SDK on my mac (OS 10.4.10).

But, when I try and capture content I have saved to my DVR I am unable to do so on my Windows box, but I can on my Mac box. I used to be able to capture recorded content on both systems. After doing research on this thread, it looks like there was a firmware change to the moto64XX series on Nov. 2nd, 2007 and that might be what is causing this problem on XP. But, if it is firmware on the moto device then why would I have different results on different operating systems?

Any insights would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

ok got it to work for a bit, just as an FYI for anyone in with my setup...I have an HP all in on with a multi card reader (SD, MMC, etc), it shows up as an imaging device along with the STB devices (panel, tuner) and apparently in my case it was causing some sort of conflict. Now it seems to work for several minutes, VLC and then flakes out, wondering if the box is blocking the firewire stream, how do I check is the stream is stopped from the box?

Hello -

I have a Motorola DCT-6200/2005. I have installed the drivers noted in this post on a Win XP PRO SP2 machine (up to date with updates). The drivers installed ok and I get 2 devices present and reported working in Device Manager Properties. One is a tuner and the other is a video capture device. There is a 3rd unidentified remaining device that I disable, as per the instructions.

The only program that seems to recognize the devices is CAPDVHS. I think Windows Media Player 9 also recognizes them, but I get errors. Whenever I try recording with CAPDVHS, it seems to be recording, but the information in the Data Info tab never populates. I do get resulting .mpg files, but I can not seem to play them back with any player, including VLC.

I'm not sure of the firmware version in the 6200 - how do I find this? I read in this thread that the firmware has to be a certain level for this to work.

I have the 6200 tuned to a clear HD channel when I try this. I'm sure that the SD and HD local broadcast channels are in the clear.

I have a Hauppauge HVR-1600 installed on the PC, and I can record, view and stream clear QAM channels just fine using SageTV with the 1600. Also, I have a Canopus ADVC-300 and can record and stream, using Windows Media Player 9, over firewire - so I know my PC can record over firewire.

I must be missing something!

Any tips or help would be greatly appreciated.

TIA

****EDIT - WHOA WAIT!**** I am able to capture and playback if I tune in to a clear STANDARD DEFINITION digital broadcast channel - it's only the HD channels that don't seem to work as I indicated above. Also, is there anyway to stream this real-time over the net? SageTV doesn't recognize the device and WME seems to choke on it. VLC seems to have streaming functionality, but only from a file? Any suggestions are apreciated!

Whenever I try recording with CAPDVHS, it seems to be recording, but the information in the Data Info tab never populates.
Then the copy protection is on, nothing you can do with that channel...

I have the 6200 tuned to a clear HD channel when I try this. I'm sure that the SD and HD local broadcast channels are in the clear.
The clear QAM and copy freely channels don't have to match...

SageTV doesn't recognize the device and WME seems to choke on it.
You should be able to get SageTV's network encoder (http://www.nolberger.se/Sage/GraphRecorder/Default.htm) to work, on those copy freely channels...

Thanks for the reply!

If you notice the end of my post, I did get it to work on standard definition digital - but doesn't work on the clear HD channels.

Thanks and I'll try the sagetv thing! I can't seem to get it to stream reliably with VLC. Streaming with VLC, it starts then immediately freezes.

Then the copy protection is on, nothing you can do with that channel...


The clear QAM and copy freely channels don't have to match...


You should be able to get SageTV's network encoder (http://www.nolberger.se/Sage/GraphRecorder/Default.htm) to work, on those copy freely channels...

I'm having a new problem that I'd not encountered before. Capturing a live program works perfectly fine. Capturing a program that I've got on the DVR's hard drive results in choppy audio. Has anyone had this happen? Both SD and HD programs are affected.

Hi all -

To add just one more frustration to a litany of them - Windows Vista 64 won't let me use the old driver to make DCT 6412 recording work - because its not a 64 bit driver.

So I now have an awesome HTPC, but can't record any HD to edit...

I can't even get my X1950XTXs' analog VIVO capture to work.

Anyone wanna take a stab at rectifying the situation?

Right now, I'm resulting to booting to XP to record... I'd really rather stay with Vista (the XP OS is on an IDE drive, and Vista is on SATA2)

I'm really sorry if this question has been asked before but its a simple yes/no answer.

Can HDTV be displayed and tuned into (from comcast, not OTA) using "Watch LiveTV" on Windows Media Center using the firewire method??

I've got it working using VLC and everything according to the tutorial but I'm trying to integrate everything into WMC so other people can use it easily. Its a bit cumbersome for people who arent familiar with the computer to have to load different programs just to watch TV.

Ok all, I bit the bullet and ran Windows XP on an IDE drive to record KU's preseason basketball game yesterday.

I ended up with a 3.9 gig .ts file. Thats about right.

I "opened" the .ts file with VLC to see the video - It doesnt "play" at all. It sits on a black screen and the time cursor doesn't move.

If I increase the playback speed to 4X , the timer starts counting and I can see the show... but as soon as I hit play, pause, stop, etc... or decrease speed to 1X, I'm back to the black screen.

I tested the setup by recording both HD and SD programs and it worked fine there. The only problem I encountered was that it didn't want to record more than 7.7 gigs of HD.

...this is a little rediculous.

Anyone wanna take a stab at rectifying the situation?
Windows x64 is a showstopper --- the current driver will not load, and I haven't seen an alternative.

Ok all, I bit the bullet and ran Windows XP on an IDE drive to record KU's preseason basketball game yesterday.

I ended up with a 3.9 gig .ts file. Thats about right.

I "opened" the .ts file with VLC to see the video - It doesnt "play" at all. It sits on a black screen and the time cursor doesn't move.
How did you capture the TS file, via CapDVHS or VLC? If you used CapDVHS, did the 'Data Info' tab populate or not?

Have you tried playing the file in something other than VLC, say ZoomPlayer or MPC installed with codecs from the CCCP (http://www.cccp-project.net/)?

ExDeus - Thanks for the reply

I agree... Vista so far has hurt at least as much as it helped... At least it has a little better support than XP X64...

I captured the transport stream in CapDVHS. Im pretty sure all the tabs populated the correct info.

MPC wont touch the TS or the converted MPG file (using HDTV2MPEG2.exe)... Zoom player plays the video on .ts, but no audio, and once I take it down to MPEG, it displays the same black screen that VLC does. One strange thing though... once converted to MPEG, the files' counter seems to only roll by at 8x... even when just hitting play.

The uplink from the game was having some issues. I know they uplink on a Ku band dish, but use digital encoding (used to work at the CBS affiliate)... could it be that something in the stream either from the game or from cox blew me up here? I recorded on the analog SDTV channel... previous tests on other channels both SD and HD played ok. They aren't anal enough yet to have DRM imbedded in the signal.

It's weird that I got video but no audio... in all my other experiences it's the other way around.

Have you tried GSpot?
It's a great free tool to see what's in a multimedia container and see if you can play it.
Just open it and drop the file on it.
It'll show you what codecs are used and a lot of the details (audio codecs and some details; full GOP structure and lots of other info that don't mean a lot to me).

Go to proposed codec solutions and tests at the bottom and press the "1" under MS A/V and it'll show you a potential graphedit solution to play the file (and let you preview it).

I primarily use it to see what I've gotten in audio before burning to DVD so that I know when to split-off a 6 channel AC3 that my old TMPGenc PRO can't handle and mux it back later for burning.

I also use VideoReDo to fix damaged streams (it's not freeware, but I think there's a free trial). Just load it in and save it back out. I've never needed to fix audio though.

Hello again -

I've been able to capture, using both capdvhs and vlc from the motorola 6200. I am able to capture all the SD local channels, but only a couple of the HD local channels. I can tune, capture and display HD channels from 200-211 (these are local broadcast HD channels). Anything 212 or above (the rest of the local broadcast HD channels) hangs VLC and doesn't populate the info on capdvhs. There are 3 or 4 locally broadcast HD channels that don't work - but the locally broadcast HD channels below channel 212 work fine.

I also have Sagetv with a Hauppauge HVR-1600 tuner card and am able to tune all these channels just fine - so they are being sent in the clear.

I had a Comcast tech over to look at it and of course he was clueless. However, he did offer to install a brand new DCH-3400 in its place. But, I couldn't find any drivers for it so I declined the offer. Are there any drivers for this box?

Thanks again.

P.S. Could someone please tell me which box to request from Comcast? The Comcast tech basically told me he'd try to get me any box that I request - so which box with which firmware should I ask for? How do I determine which firmware is in the 6200 that I have? Is there anyway to contact timmmoore with questions about the drives? TIA again.

Ok - I found some more information:

Firmware = 16.35

Interface/Port Status for 1394

Channel 212 (local HD KDKA) 5C = No, Copy Ctl = Copy Free (Won't capture)
Channel 210 (local HD WTAE) 5C = No, Copy Ctl = Copy Free (Will capture)

It appears to only be channels 212 (KDKA HD - CBS) and 211 (WPGH HD - Fox) that have this problem!!!!!!!!! I have verified under current channel status that they are not encrypted. I have seen one post in this thread that implies these settings are made by the broadcaster, and not Comcast?

I've tried to read this thread but it is huge - it's possible that I've missed something - but this is weird.

I'm trying to run FireSTB on my Vista machine and I can't get it to work.

MyTray.exe does not see the QIP6416 as a tuner. I have it plugged in through S-Video to my WinTV 1600 just fyi.

When I run timmoores cmd file and do channel -v D C it tells me my STB is not supported. So I tried channel -v -f D C and then I get a BSOD with:

meistb.sys

Page_Fault_In_Nonpaged_Area


I disabled UAC in Vista.

What am I doing wrong?

There are 3 or 4 locally broadcast HD channels that don't work - but the locally broadcast HD channels below channel 212 work fine.

I also have Sagetv with a Hauppauge HVR-1600 tuner card and am able to tune all these channels just fine - so they are being sent in the clear.
If you have a local broadcaster that includes the Broadcast Flag (RC Flag), then it can lead to your situation. It has been reported before that some network affiliates are including the Broadcast Flag in their broadcast because they enabled it in anticipation of the FCC mandate forcing its use. When that mandate was struck down, some stations didn't disable it. Fox includes the Broadcast Flag in the broadcast master of much of its primetime line-up, so it is present even if the local affiliate isn't the one adding it.

The reason you can capture those channels with your HVR-1600, is because those channels are cablecast in clear-QAM, so you can capture them, but they include the Broadcast Flag. Capture cards and PC software ignore the Flag, while the Moto cable STBs with recent firmware revisions enable Firewire encryption when the Flag is encountered, preventing you from capturing them from the STB.

I had a Comcast tech over to look at it and of course he was clueless. However, he did offer to install a brand new DCH-3400 in its place. But, I couldn't find any drivers for it so I declined the offer. Are there any drivers for this box?
The drivers are the same for all cable boxes, so the same drivers will work with the the DCH-3400. The 3400 should already be included as a supported device in my driver package, so you should be able to hook it up and have it immediately recognized. If not, I will add support for it with a little info from you. My page is down right now due to the wonderful people at Comcast dropping the ball as I transfer my account from one address to another, but it should be back soon.

Interface/Port Status for 1394

Channel 212 (local HD KDKA) 5C = No, Copy Ctl = Copy Free (Won't capture)
Channel 210 (local HD WTAE) 5C = No, Copy Ctl = Copy Free (Will capture)

It appears to only be channels 212 (KDKA HD - CBS) and 211 (WPGH HD - Fox) that have this problem!!!!!!!!!
As mentioned in the Wikibook entry (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Configuration#How_To_Check_If_5C_DTCP_is_Enabled), the RC Flag, CCI, and DRM flags can all indicate encryption is being applied to the Firewire output.

ExDeus,
The link to the firewire drivers in your sig does not work.


The reason you can capture those channels with your HVR-1600, is because those channels are cablecast in clear-QAM, so you can capture them, but they include the Broadcast Flag. Capture cards and PC software ignore the Flag, while the Moto cable STBs with recent firmware revisions enable Firewire encryption when the Flag is encountered, preventing you from capturing them from the STB.

Are you saying that if I ran firewire from my STB to my PC I wouldn't be able to capture the main channels?

Thank you for the thorough explanation!

I guess there's not much I can do about it? :( Sounds like getting a different model cable box would not help.

Oh well, glad I made the decision to buy the Hauppauge HVR-1600.

Thanks again.

ExDeus,
The link to the firewire drivers in your sig does not work.

...My page is down right now due to the wonderful people at Comcast dropping the ball as I transfer my account from one address to another, but it should be back soon.

Are you saying that if I ran firewire from my STB to my PC I wouldn't be able to capture the main channels?
In some areas, yes, some of the local HD channels cannot be captured due to encryption.

The problem with encrypted primetime Fox content would affect everybody with Moto boxes with recent firmware updates.

Does anybody have a mirror site for the Firewire Drivers the ExDeus has been so kind to provide?

Thanks

i gots vista ultimate 64-bit only. are there drivers or methods to make this work?

Does anybody have a mirror site for the Firewire Drivers the ExDeus has been so kind to provide?

Thanks

I'll attach them to this post until Comcrap gets its act together. I never thought I'd be one to post "Comcrap"... *sigh* :(

Update: With no help from Comcast, I was able to get my site up and running again. Link as in my signature: http://home.comcast.net/~exdeus/stbfirewire/

i gots vista ultimate 64-bit only. are there drivers or methods to make this work?
None currently. Drivers cannot seem to be forced to load.

This is issue has finally brought me to my knees. I just got this DVR yesterday from SECV and I got everything hooked up. Using CapDVHS i can cap SD content, but when I try capping anything in HD, CapDVHS crashes and then closes, creating a 200KB~ish file. Then I have to restart the PC, if I don't, when I re-open CapDVHS it says it can't find the Tuner. CapDVHS wouldn't be crashing due to a channel having 5c would it? I just can't seem to wrap my head around this issue. All my HD channels play back (albeit not perfect) in VLC using "Open Capture Device". Any hints or suggestions? (I have tried 2 seperate copies of CapDVHS, and both firewire ports on the DVR)

All my HD channels play back (albeit not perfect) in VLC using "Open Capture Device". Any hints or suggestions?
Sounds like your STB is sending a crappy signal over the firewire port... The signal from my PACE 551HD is so bad that VLC won't actually capture/playback anything, OTOH CapDVHS works just fine... You could try using GraphEdit, to create a simple capture graph with a dump filter and see if that works fine. I did create a small utility (GrafCorder (http://forums.snapstream.com/vb/showthread.php?t=40076)) to record from such graphs, then run the resulting file through VideoReDo's quickstream fix and get good results.

Sorry if this has been addressed elsewhere, but I don't have the time to scroll through 140+ pages of content. I realize my request is no important than anyone else's; so, if this has been asked and answered, feel free to rip me for repeating lol

What's the point of even bothering with this whole thing if all but your locals are 5c encrypted? The entire REASON I even care about pulling content off of my HD DVR is that there are some really interesting programs on, say, MTV HD or Discovery HD. Sure, I'd like to pull the network stations down, especially capturing them in a high res format unlike the standard 350 MB .avi files I can download via torrents, but I can get all of my shows. That's not a problem. What I want is the obscure stuff, the back episodes of "Yes, Dear" that are unavailable for purchase on DVD. I want to record old stuff from TV Land maybe. Pulling network broadcast material down from my DVR isn't a necessity. That's my rant.

So, can anyone recommend a box that does NOT employ 5c protection? Maybe such a box doesn't exist, but I'm thinking of ditching C___cast in favor of D____TV; so, are their HD boxes easier to record from, or is it going to be the same old song and dance? I mean, I'm technically savvy enough to follow the directions and finally got my Dell Precision M90 XP SP2 to record from DVR (recorded material only) to my PC via Firewire, but after checking the diagnostics screen for 5c encryption confirmed by my inability to record any HBO or Showtime material to the PC, I could only record network material.

Am I missing a step? Did anyone figure out how to circumvent this 5c process? Thanks in advance.

Not all channels are 5c'ed on all providers. There is no way to record any of the new MPEG4 channels on D* to a PC in digital format. There are no boxes out there that ignore 5c. Talk of hacking to circumvent 5c is not kosher on AVS or most other legit, US-based forums because it is a violation of the DMCA in the US.

What's the point of even bothering with this whole thing if all but your locals are 5c encrypted? The entire REASON I even care about pulling content off of my HD DVR is that there are some really interesting programs on, say, MTV HD or Discovery HD.Some people only care about content from local networks.

So, can anyone recommend a box that does NOT employ 5c protection? Maybe such a box doesn't exist, but I'm thinking of ditching C___cast in favor of D____TV; so, are their HD boxes easier to record from, or is it going to be the same old song and dance?DirecTV and Dish Network are even worse. They don't allow any form of high-definition copying, even from locals.

Am I missing a step? Did anyone figure out how to circumvent this 5c process? Thanks in advance.With the Motorola and SA boxes, there are three different flags -- CCI, DRM, and the RC -- that will prevent you from copying recorded content to your computer:


CCI

A CCI bit of of 0x00 means "copy freely" (unprotected). A CCI bit of 0x02 means "copy one generation" -- this content cannot be copied to a computer. A CCI bit of 0x01 means "copy no more" -- this bit is used for 0x02 content recorded to a DVR; it cannot be copied to a computer.


DRM

Channels with a DRM bit other than 0x00 are encrypted. This encrypted content content cannot be copied to a computer with the Motorola or SA DVRs. Encrypted content is saved with a CCI bit of 0x01 (see above) when it is recorded.


RC (also known as broadcast flag)

FOX and some CBS affiliates use the RC flag, also known as the broadcast flag. Motorola and SA DVRs apply a CCI bit of 0x01 (see above) to recordings with this flag, hence eliminating the ability to copy it to a computer.

With the Motorola and SA DVRs, you can only record programs to your computer that have all three -- CCI, DRM, and RF -- flags set to 0x00. If the CCI, DRM, or RF bits are set to anything else, you cannot copy that recorded program to your computer.

Motorola and Scientific Atlanta observe all three flags because they cater to broadcast and cable interests that want to keep as much content protected as possible. However, the CableLabs' DFAST licensing agreement only requires that protection using the CCI flag be observed. All those other flags and bits can be legally ignored. That's exactly what TiVo does -- they ignore items #2 and #3 above -- and it is the reason why they are able to transfer content to the PC that you cannot with Motorola and SA DVRs.

The two appended screenshots are a good example. With the Motorola DVR, I can copy recordings from ABC, NBC, PBS, and the music channels using IEEE1394, but nothing from other channels. With the TiVo, I can download any and all recordings -- from any channel -- to my PC and Mac using a web browser. That's because my cable provider only uses DRM and RC to protect content, and TiVo ignores those flags.

I need some help please.

I did everything that was said on this thread. My laptop identifies the tuner. In device manager it shows AV/Tuner and AV/Panel. When I open the CAPDVHS software, the Data tab shows the tuner and I did all under "settings" as specified here. When I hit record, it does record but when I hit stop after a minute the output file has 0KB. Nothing recorded.

Can somebody tell me what am I doing wrong ?? I need to copy the cartoon stuff for my 3 year old daughther for upcoming trip.

thank you

Can I somebody tell me please why I am creating 0KB file ?

Can I somebody tell me please why I am creating 0KB file ?If they channel is flagged as I noted above, you can't record from the Motorola or SA DVRs to your PC.

If they channel is flagged as I noted above, you can't record from the Motorola or SA DVRs to your PC.

Thank you..how do I check for the flags ??

Thank you..how do I check for the flags ??
How To Check If 5C DTCP is Enabled (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Configuration#How_To_Check_If_5C_DTCP_is_Enabled)

How To Check If 5C DTCP is Enabled (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Configuration#How_To_Check_If_5C_DTCP_is_Enabled)

Thank you. Is there any work around to get them recorded ?? I mean the 5C protected content.

With the Motorola and SA boxes, there are three different flags -- CCI, DRM, and the RC -- that will prevent you from copying recorded content to your computer:


CCI

A CCI bit of of 0x00 means "copy freely" (unprotected). A CCI bit of 0x02 means "copy one generation" -- this content cannot be copied to a computer. A CCI bit of 0x01 means "copy no more" -- this bit is used for 0x02 content recorded to a DVR; it cannot be copied to a computer.


DRM

Channels lagged with a DRM bit other than 0x00 are encrypted. This encrypted content content cannot be copied to a computer with the Motorola or SA DVRs. Encrypted content is saved with a CCI bit of 0x01 (see above) when it is recorded.


RC (also known as broadcast flag)

FOX and some CBS affiliates use the RC flag, also known as the broadcast flag. Motorola and SA DVRs apply a CCI bit of 0x01 (see above) to recordings with this flag, hence eliminating the ability to copy it to a computer.

With the Motorola and SA DVRs, you can only record programs to your computer that have all three -- CCI, DRM, and RF -- flags set to 0x00. If the CCI, DRM, or RF bits are set to anything else, you cannot copy that recorded program to your computer.

Motorola and Scientific Atlanta observe all three flags because they cater to broadcast and cable interests that want to keep as much content protected as possible. However, the CableLabs' DFAST licensing agreement only requires that protection using the CCI flag be observed. All those other flags and bits can be legally ignored. That's exactly what TiVo does -- they ignore items #2 and #3 above -- and it is the reason why they are able to transfer content to the PC that you cannot with Motorola and SA DVRs.

The two appended screenshots are a good example. With the Motorola DVR, I can transfer recordings from ABC, NBC, PBS, and the music channels, but not from other channels. With the TiVo, I can transfer any and all recordings -- from any channel -- to my PC and Mac. That's because my cable provider only uses DRM and RC to protect content, and TiVo ignores those flags.

Thanks a lot bfdtv! I've never seen a real Tivo in action -- well, my parents had the Sony D* boxes that used Tivo early on, but they never paid for the service -- and I had no idea that there was such a user-friendly UI for downloading your content. Is this how it is for all Tivo boxes? And how does that work between your cable provider and Tivo?

I might have to go examine my diagnostics screen again....

Anyone know if there are updated x64 Vista drivers for the DCH3416 motorola unit thus far?