Im sorry, but i cant find any info on the snow technique, can you guys help?

Also, should I try the nokia program for my burn-in problem? thanks

Hi,

Most Movie Directors film in the 2:35 aspect ratio. This puts black bars on the top and bottom. They are supposed to be there and some dvd boxes actually say that on the back of the box. Please don't stretch the picture to fill the screen it's like adding gingerale to a single malt scotch.

Unfortuneately if you have a 4:3 tv which puts black bars on the sides, a 2:35 film would have black bars all around it.

Older movies that were converted for wide screen tvs were done in 1:78 or 1:85 which will fill the whole screen of a 16:9 tv.

If your worried about burnin with those black bars don't. The best thing for your tv is to have it ISF calibrated (www.isf.com) and while waiting for the tech to show up, turn the brightness and contrast down to 50%. Making the room the tv is in as dark as possible will also help.

Peter M.


Thank you. Our TV is a 16:9 one. After reading some posts here, guess that shouldn't be a burn-in problem. After all, we watch TV more than watching DVD's. When we watch TV, this Toshiba TV provides a "smart zoom" feature which keep's the center unchanged but zooms the boundries.

One thing I couldn't understand was we buy these 16:9 sets to watch HD Wide screen shows and they still put the black bars on the top and bottom... What is the point of it?

Hi all, great site, lots of info. I'm this close to getting a plasma tv for the family but can't seem to find an answer to a pretty mundane question: Which set is going to produce the best SD picture? This is going to be our primary tv and my guess is that we'll only be using it to watch HD sources (DVD's, cable movies, broadcast sports events) about half the time. The other half we'll be watching standard definition programs from our local cable company (Cox). I understand more and more programs are being broadcast in HD, but in the meantime I'd like to have a set that can do a decent job with standard definition. I was in Tweeter last night and they had a few plasma sets tuned to an SD program and frankly the picture was terrible. Any thoughts? Thanks.

I have had a Pioneer 55" standard definition RPTV for about 10 years or so, and I have never had burn in. I have used it for letterboxed movies extensively, I have used it at length for video games, and when my son is over every other weekend, he has it on cartoon channel for 12 hours at a stretch, and yet as far as the projection aspect of this TV, all I have had to do is clean the optics once or twice, and do a convergence once in a while. Perhaps I am lucky.

My 2 year extended warranty will be up in a couple months....

This stinking burn in on my 55" mits is really distracting....

If I left this thing on for two months straight , could I cause something to break or burn-out and the guns be replaced ???

Am I under the thought that the guns are the parts that are "burned' and the rest of the set is fine ?

I have a Sony KD-30XS955 on the way.


Can you explain if I need to be this concerned with this tv?

you guys are talking about Rear projection crt's

are the direct views diffrent?

The personal anecdotes seem to be pretty helpful to others here, so I'll share my own experiences.

I had a Panasonic 4:3 RPTV for three years and I've had a Toshiba 16:9 RPTV for almost a year now. I play a good deal of video games and watch movies every now and then, and my viewing is naturally varied. I watch a lot of ESPN, a lot of network prime time, and record all sorts of stuff on my D* Tivo. My SD viewing (which I'd guess is around 25% now) is ALL done in stretch/zoom mode. My current set has had no more than forty hours TOTAL of viewing with 4:3 bars on the sides.

I have had absolutely no problem with burn-in on either set. The Panasonic was actually given to me for free because it had some issues, one of which was a slight burn-in of what looked like a DVD menu. I don't know what the heck the previous owners did to that set to cause the burn-in, but I couldn't replicate it. I tend to play video games in streaks and I may not change games for months at a time. This means that the same HUDs, gauges, bars, and meters are on the screen repetitively. Sometimes I have an hour to play a day, sometimes I may veg out and get in five hours in a day. Some days I don't play at all. None of these graphics ever burned in to either set, including the one that was evidently prone in the first place. I don't take lengthy breaks while playing, and on the rare occasion I do, I turn off the set.

I've never had my newer set calibrated, and the contrast is set around 50. No problems with it after almost a year and probably (I kid you not) over a hundred hours of Madden played on the Xbox.

The original post is right on the money about varying your viewing habits. I watch all types of stuff not because I feel compelled to, but because that's just the way it works out for me. I don't use the 4:3 mode except for the occasional video game or SD football game. Everything else I watch in SD is of so little importance that I really don't mind it being stretched (and Family Guy looks great stretched, anyway ;) ). I guess I'm lucky in that everything I really want to watch is in 16:9.

From my own experience, you literally have to play video games or watch channels with tickers all day, everyday, to see burn-in. I have by no means abused my sets, but for the amount of time they've been in use, especially with video games, I've seen no problems. A little of this and a little of that, and you shouldn't have any problems.

I've got a Toshiba 46H84 and recently I've started to notice some faint burn in. The odd thing is the burn is 2 seperate panels. A panel on the left side and a panel on the right side. The panels are seperated by a thin 2 or 3 inch strip down the middle of the screen. So if you can imagine a strip of located on the side where a 4:3 side panel would be then a burn in strip down the middle... like 2 seperate panels.

Does anyone know what would cause that? I never watch anything that isn't 16:9 or stretched.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.
tbrickey

I bought a Hitachi 51" recently RP CRT. My wife likes to listen to MP3's via the DVD player. The way I have it set up, all audio is going out of the set to my Yamaha 5.1, which is located in our "wet bar". My wife will not let me put the Yamaha in "plain view" as it makes things look cluttered. My question is, while listening to mp3's (with menus off) and having the Panasonic blue "DVD" emblem on the screen cause burn in problems? It's the RP-62 and I do not believe there is a 'built in" screen saver. Any suggestions besides running a cable from the RP-62 through the wall, and under the floor to my Yamaha?

Hi,
It's not coming out of the tv at all. Sinc e it's an audio only program the signal is going from the disc to the coax cable on the dvd to the receiver and then rhe speakers,

You don't have to have the tv on at all since theres no video info. If your player was capable of playing dvd-a and also if you were interested in some of the video info on the disc, only then would you turn on your tv.

Just in case it was turned on by mistake, if you have already had it ISF'd your fine.
If you haven't you run the risk of taking years of life from the guns not to mention burin.

Peter.

I have a Hitachi 53" RPTV that's about 4 years old, and has started to show definite burn in as a result of watching a bit too much 4:3 material with the grey bars (my own fault, I know). Is there any way to know exactly which of the three CRT tubes are affected the most by burn-in? If there's only one tube involved that would still be cheaper than replacing the entire set, however if all three are equally involved, then I'd consider a new tv. Somewhere I heard that the green tube was more susceptible to this problem than the others but not sure if this is true or not. Any help would be appreciated...thanks in advance!

Hi Crauen,

I have a 2001 Tosh 65H80. I use it for everything including as a PC desktop. It is on about 8-10 hrs a day. Aside from the convergence wandering a bit every year (causes raster ringing in flesh tones or beige stuff and looks like wrinkles) I have 0 burnin because I had my set ISF calibrated at the beginning.

The most important part of ISF calibration is getting the tempreture of brightness and contrast down from about 8000k (when it comes out of the plant) to 6500k which is optimum.

Your burnin issue is caused by brightness and contrast being over 50%. I would make that adjustment yourself immediately and GOOGLE ISF for a tech in your area.

CRT units still provide the best PQ of all the technologies with LCOS comming on strong (but still expensive compared to CRT.

I have the convergence re done every 2 years and it gets rid of that raster stuff and make the set look brand new.

Anyway, bringing down brightness and contrast immediately should keep the burnin from ggetting any worse. I'm sorry but I can't answer the color gun question or even know if thats the answer.

Peter M.

Just for the record.....My Hitachi 57 XWX20B has mild burn in after about 36 months of use.
I have to point it out to people but i see it 24/7. It is only noticable during lighter scenes like blue sky ect..
A few facts about my watching habits and how the TV is set.....
1. The TV has been adjusted using Digital Video essentials.
2. Although I may not be a true video nut yet, and i may not have spent enough time adjusting { DVE puts me to sleep}.....brightness,picture and contrast are set down in the 35% range....so i think i had this part right..........wife complained that the pic. was too dark.
3. I stretched 4:3 to fill the screen for about the first two years using grey bars most of the time.
4. Over the last 12 months or so i stopped stretching 4:3 and watched it as 4:3 with black bars.
5. On average the TV would be turned on at about 6:00 PM for about 6 hours ........weekends and holidays it would get turned on for about 14 hours, all mostly in 4:3
6. Years ago i worked in an A/V store and the TVs would be left on all day. I don't remember one TV having burn in.
I just thought i would state the facts to try and help anyone out there. What bugs me the most is that i could buy two nice sets today for the money i spent three years ago!
If i could wind back the clock i would have purchased a smaller LCD TV for "all day watching" and limit the use on the big one.

[QUOTE=Espo77]Just for the record.....My Hitachi 57 XWX20B has mild burn in after about 36 months of use.
I have to point it out to people but i see it 24/7. It is only noticable during lighter scenes like blue sky ect..


I have nearly the identical situation here. My Hitachi 53 SWX10B also started to show mild burn-in after three years of use. I watched mostly 4:3 material and I can't stand to view it stretched, yet no one had ever warned me of anything called "burn-in" except when playing video games, or a static screen image for long periods of time. Now it has been over 4 years and I'm starting to watch more HD and DVD content, and because the center section of the screen is what is burned in, it is only when I go to widescreen (i.e. the Olympics) that I notice bands on the left and right side of the screen, where the grey bars were constantly left on.

I debated repairing vs. replacing the set, so I called a good service tech and confirmed that both the green and the blue CRT tubes were burned-in, moreso the green; the red tube is still picture perfect. I managed to track down replacement tubes and am opting to repair it for far less than it would be to purchase a new tv altogether, and if I can get another 2 to 3 years of life out of it, great! Now I'll have to be careful in how I use this toy, and will try to keep the 4:3 stuff to a minimum. Brightness and contrast have been turned down to around 50% (contrast 75%) since day one. My hope is that by the time this set is truly "old," the LCD / DLP technologies will have made significant advancements in picture quality and I can justify a change, but for now, this Hitachi puts out an awesome image, even with the burn-in.

Hi,

Your CRT based set which, according to experts, provides a picture quality that is only now starting to be approached by the still very expensive LCOS technology should be good for 12 to 14yrs of use (6hrs a day) if properly maintained.

Peter M.

Hi,

Your CRT based set which, according to experts, provides a picture quality that is only now starting to be approached by the still very expensive LCOS technology should be good for 12 to 14yrs of use (6hrs a day) if properly maintained.

Peter M.

This would depend greatly on how one defines a set that is "properly maintained," and exactly how I go about keeping it that way. I'm still going to watch a lot of 4:3 material but not quite as much as in the past - how do I keep the burn-in minimum to nill if I continue to use the grey bars on the sides, rather than stretching or zooming the picture? Also, program guide graphics, which I cannot get rid of, are etched into the screen as well from a home theater pc/recorder that a friend built for me. There is also a bit of burn-in from a station logo in the lower left corner of the 4:3 portion of the screen.

As I mentioned above, I turned the brightness (picture) down to 50% and contrast to 75% when I first got the set. If there's anything else you can recommend that I do to extend it's life, I greatly appreciate the advice - 12 to 14 additional years would be great but I hope to have some sort of newer technology display well before then, and the way I seem to be abusing the set (actually I don't think I've been all that harsh with it ;-) who knows how much more life it has. -Chris

I Have A Rca Scenium Model# Hd65w20 And I Am Having Problems With It ,the Problem Is That When You Turn It On Theres Nothing On The Screen Accept A Dot In The Center,what Do I Do To Fix This Problem? Any Suggestions?

Hi,

Thats not much info.

Is it new?
Which input?
Have you unplugged it completly and replugged?
Is it plugged to a power bar or wall or receiver or cable box or anything else?
Is it possible the input setting was changed by accident to a non active one?
Is there sound?
Could it have overheated due to lack of air circulation?
Have you called the manufacturer?

Why did you post it in a "BURN IN THREAD"?

Peter M.

[B]My Girlfriend watches Amimal Planet a LOT! And I just noticed slight burnin logo.
I thought it might be a smudge on the mirror(I have removed the SO CALLED glare shield and thought maybe I may have touched the mirror surface, but then I noticed it kinda had a shape of an elephant! YES it was their logo. I am upset , set is a sony 51ws520 and only
6 months old. I am going to send all these channel stations a letter about this. I noticed
that TBS has a logo, but it is reduced in video level and does not pose a problem. WHY cannot all logos be reduced in video level to help prevent burnin problems. Note I am a video tech and aware of burnins so my levels were reduced but I guess not enough!
When I was servicing early color cameras using vidcon tubes burnins occured and I would point the cameras at a white screen to help remove burnins, Sooooo it does work! and right now as I type I have a Full white screen on my RP TV. I will report my results.

burn burn burn, this is scary stuff

Hi,

Have you O'deed on KippyNaya? Thats an excellent unit. Turn the Brightness and contrast down to 50% right now!!!!.

Whew, glad we got that done.

Next, Google ISF or Imaging Science Foundation and find a certified & respected calibrator in your area, (you can ask in the appropriate area of AVS for recommendations) and have your unit done after approximately 100hrs of breakin time.

Regarding CRTs. Respected display technology reviewers have suggested that the only technology that approaches the overall picture quality of a CRT unit are the relatively new LCOS or D-ILA displays (still pricey in comparison to CRT).

The following explanation re direct view and rearproj CRT was given to me as a non techie.

Direct view 1 Gun or tube that you watch directly.
CRT RPTV 3 Black & white guns each gun has a spearate color filter green,red,blue.
These are focused to a single spot on a mirror and reflected onto your screen.

The biggest problem with CRT RPTVs has been the fact that once you pass the 40" size their sheer bulk dominates any room they are in and are relatively ugly in the light of day and will screw up a potentially lovely decor.

On the other hand, if you can dedicate a media type room where you watch HDTV/DVDs, listen to Music and also Surf the Net with the family on the wide screen, as long as it's properly calibrated (payed for with the ton of money you saved over Plasma), it will last you well over a decade and provide images that your freinds with those skinny screens might just envy.

One last thing, I have a Tosh 65H80 (Oct 2000). It has been calibrated with touchups every few years. I use it for all of the Media room activities listed above. I can also honestly say that the set has been on for an average of 6hrs a day since I purchased it for $7000.00 Cdn and thanks to the ISF calibration there is not a hint of BURNIN.

Peter M.

Just put up grey bars or white bars for the side and don't display anything in the middle. How? Just unplug your STB from the unit when in 4:3 mode. The time it takes to "erase" the burn-in will be in direct proportion to the amount of time that was spent watching 4:3 content with the black bars

Can someone explain this, step by step, to me in layman's terms? I don't even know what a STB is.

Hi,

STB is short for Set Top Box. Usually provided by cable or satellite service provider.

The frustrating part of contributing to this thread is that every piece of equipment you have in your chain comes with an owners manual.

Anyone who has ruined one crt with burnin and now has a second and has no idea how to turn brightness up or down seems more interested in carrying on an online conversation than solving any equipment issues.

Before you post here again please read all your equipment manuals and ask questions that don't make you look like ???.

Peter M.

I recently bought a 52 inch rear proj. CRT HDTV. And after only two or three weeks in my home I noticed a small yellow cloud in the picture at the bottom of the screen. I contacted the store we purchased the TV from and they sent a repairman out to look at it. He was at my house for about 4 minutes and immediately said that it is burn in and its not covered by the warranty. After calling the store and arguing with them for a while, they have agreed to send another repairman from a different shop to look at it. Now the yellow cloud has grown to cover most of the left half of the screen. It is very faint and only visible when the image on tv is white or light colored. Anyone have any ideas on what I can do? I'm somewhat knowledgable about burn in and have never watched anything with stationary images for a long period of time. Also if it were burn in, wouldnt it be an outline or image of something that was on the screen? I don't remember watching a tv program about yellow clouds. Sorry for the long post. Hope someone can help

Hi,

Burin is usually defned and recognisable as a logo or line.

I suggest you Google the ISF Foundation. When you get to their website try and find an accredited tech that will send you an e-mail telling you that this is not burnin. Show this e-mail to whomever shows up.

You may also ask what they think it might be but ask acknowledging that they are not tv repair men.

GoodLuck,
Peter M.
PS: Make sure the brightness and contrast is set to 50% before the repair man arrives or it will give him ammo for the burnin accusation.

[B]Hi,
I have a burn-in of the animal planet logo! I stated this in a previous thread, I have been trying to remove move it using the all white mode on the screen. I think it has has faded a little ( or it is just convincing myself it has) I saw about a method called "SALT and Pepper screen" to help remove these burnin's. My Question is --- Is this just the noise pattern when viewing a channel with no signal?? Also how effectively does it work?
Thanks
Earl

Hi Earl,

There are different degrees of burnin.
I don't know if any of these tricks work but if they don';t hurt the tv and don't cost a fortune.
You tell us how well it works.

Peter M.

Peter M.

So do LCD RPTV sets suffer to the extent you guys seem to say CRT RPTVs do?

I didn't feel like reading through 10 pages to see if it was mentioned.

I recently (3 weeks ago) bought a 42" sony LCD RPTV gen 3 model (component input, not hdmi)

i remember seeing in the instruction book they said it can happen and not to leave the same thing on the screen too long.

I'm in Australia and apparently consumers had phoned the free to air TV stations regarding burn i of tv networks logos on their sets.

Lately i've noticed the broadcasts cycle the watermark logo from on for a fair amount of time to off for a fair amount of time

No

well that's good to know... makes me wonder why they warn against it in the owners manual

during the break-in period of a hitachi rpcrt, is it not wise to leave the tv on for long periods of time (with the contrast/brightness settings down low)? i watch about 2 hours of tv a day, on average (at most), and was thinking of just running some dvds on it even if i'm not watching it, just so it can get broken in. they say 100 hours is the break in time that is recommended? are there any adverse affects to taking your time at breaking the thing in? if not, then i'll probably just stick to my 1-dvd-a-day routine. :) thanks for the help.

Hi,

Good for you your reading the important stuff. Most imporantly prior to having an ISF Calibration and foreve after you should make sure the Brightnes & Contrast re not set over 50% tp protect against burnn.

With regard to "seasoning the set" it's not necessasary unless you've made an apointment with an SF tech already who would need t broken in to make sre that his convegence doesn't wander.

lOtherwise allowing it to mellow with you should be fine, but itsyour call.

Peter M.

what about dvd's that don't take up the whole screen and leave little black bars on the top and bottom of the screen? could they be a source for burn-in? how do i go about fixing the problem?

hi,

its supposed to look that way. not a problem. just make sure brightness & contrast at 50%.

Peter m.

When ageing your set for the first initial couple hours how likely will channel logos burn on :confused: They scare me being white(maxium wear on all phosphors)and they are on channels %75 of the time, im scared, how likely will burn in happen? should i stick to logoless channels like HBO for the initial 200hour~ of torch mode? Am i supposed to have contrast/brightness at %50 for the initial few hundred hours of phosphor wear?

I was under the impression, which may be wrong, that dlp tvs use a projection light bulb, that goes through the dmd, then through the color wheel...and projects like onto a film-screen which has a protective glass/hard-like covering over it so it doesn't get damaged.

That effectively, its just light being signed into a projector screen thats semi-transparent from the rear with a bunch of high tech components between the bulb/screen to maximize reoslution, contrast blah blah blah.

I also see on many DLP projection companes like ...ohh Optoma "No burn in!" "No burn in!". its always been my thoughts Plasma cells can have image rention and eventually burn in if an image is retained to long because Plasma is somehow an organic material or something like that which as a 'memory'.

I don't think my lightbulb to the best of my knowledge could burn in. I mean. I have left kitchen lights turned on for 24 hours straight, came back...and no burn in. Also I didn't think the projector screen could be burn in. i mean the lgiht from my bulb has hit my floor/walls for 24 hours straight and I don't see burn in on my walls.



Though when I got my Toshiba DLP tv delivered they warned me...DON'T LEAVE THE BLACK BARS ON 4.3 TV. ALWAYS STRETCH it to 16:9 using theatremode 1 or 2 until they are not black bars....or it will RECK YOUR TVVVVVVVVVVVVV!!!


They kept saiyng over and over again putting emphasis that burn it will occur/does occur and will break tvs. Though I don't think either the bulb or projector can possibly burn in. Are these guys just morons?

Well, i did a guided search today from google.

72MX195 Burn in
Toshiba 72mx195 burn in

dlp burn in

etc.

Every reference I found was from places like cnet, shopping centers, or what to buy threads, etc listing how 'DLP HAS NO BURN IN'. etc etc.

Should I get a plasma or dlp? dlp has no burn in and plasma does. I am sorry about it and worried if it will burn in.

I couldn't find one report saying "I have a toshiba 72mx195 and it has image retention...and it is burn in...and blah blah blah...and...

New around here and great info, in the market for a RPTV since my options are limited here in costa rica.

Hi,

If you are lucky enough to have a dedicated Media room that visitors will not see unless you invite them into it, get the largest CRT based rptv that you can afford
and have it ISF calibrated.

CRT RPTVs give yhe best picture for the lkeast money.

However, women hate them because their big and ugly so if you can keep it from dominating your living dining/room, and put it elsewhere you'll save thousands

Peter M.

OK, my 65" Hitachi rear projection CRT is officially BURNED IN. 28 months of watching most shows not stretched and I have lighter bars on both sides of the screen where the black bars are if not in HD. I get HD networks off the air and HD HBO off Directv and now watch standard Directv stretched but networks unstretched.

The main portion of the screen has a slightly darker reddish hue, usually only noticed with lighter colored images but it is making me crazy. My wife says it is OK, but I want to do something.

Anyone know if I can replace one bulb or do I need to do all three???

Is it the red since that is the color I see?

Is it self do-able?

I just recently saw the contrast was at 100 (Crap...)

The set is the 65S700, great picture, built in HD tuner and great before it's time. I just took off the protective screen to remove the glare and am VERY happy but the burn in is a bummer.

OK, my 65" Hitachi rear projection CRT is officially BURNED IN. 28 months of watching most shows not stretched and I have lighter bars on both sides of the screen where the black bars are if not in HD. I get HD networks off the air and HD HBO off Directv and now watch standard Directv stretched but networks unstretched.

The main portion of the screen has a slightly darker reddish hue, usually only noticed with lighter colored images but it is making me crazy. My wife says it is OK, but I want to do something.

Anyone know if I can replace one bulb or do I need to do all three???

Is it the red since that is the color I see?

Is it self do-able?

I just recently saw the contrast was at 100 (Crap...)

The set is the 65S700, great picture, built in HD tuner and great before it's time. I just took off the protective screen to remove the glare and am VERY happy but the burn in is a bummer.

I just recently replaced two of the three tubes in my 4 year old Hitachi 53" which was showing the same burn-in you're describing: non-stretched SD material. So the good news is that it is a fixable problem, but the bad news is that the repair needs to be done by a service tech (the bulbs are not "plug and play") and the CRT tubes are spendy and hard to find. I think I paid around $290 per tube, so it ended up being $600 in parts and $100 for the service call. The service call would have been more had they done the research on finding the replacement tubes, but as I did my own research & bought the parts myself I was able to get a bit of a deal.

The reason I opted to do this rather than buy a new set was that after getting the problem properly diagnosed (the green and blue tubes burn in far worse and more frequently than the red tube), it would have cost far more for a new HDTV of any kind than it would to fix the old set, which really isn't all that old. It now has a stunning picture, and one that will have to be permanently stretched to avoid further problems. It is possible if your set is only 28 months old you can still get parts fairly easily, and order them yourself after a tech determines which tubes are the most burned-in. With a set that new, it seems impossible that all three tubes are bad...if you're lucky it might just be one.

Good luck!

How do you figure which ones are burned?

Where did you find parts?

I google with no luck and I do not trust Sears, where I bought it. I have no problem spending 3 to 6 hundred to fix a $3500 set.

My center 90% is darker (reddish) than the edges.

Thanks

How do you figure which ones are burned?

Where did you find parts?

I google with no luck and I do not trust Sears, where I bought it. I have no problem spending 3 to 6 hundred to fix a $3500 set.

My center 90% is darker (reddish) than the edges.

Thanks

The technician that helped me had a device where he could project the light from one tube at a time on the screen. The image direct from the green and blue tubes was terrible; each showed the burn-in which was well defined with the bars on the sides of the screen, and by seeing each color individually, we also found burned in images I had not noticed before, like channel logos, etc. I later learned that you can replicate this method by finding an image on a color calibration dvd like Avia, etc., which has an all blue, all green etc screen - but you will be best off with a tech who has the proper tools.

I called Hitachi's 800 number to find parts dealers and requested several distributors from them. Pacific Coast Parts in Oregon, I think, was where I found one of the last blue tubes available in our region for that model set. I lucked out and found the green tube on Ebay - a gamble, but it worked.

Not sure what is causing the reddish tint you're seeing on your set, since all the folks I talked to in doing my research said that the green & blue tubes have the greatest trouble with burn-in; red is seldom involved.

My set also cost $3500 and I also felt the same way about the repair and investment - if I can get another four years out of it, I'll be very happy. By then maybe LCD or DLP tv's will match or surpass the quality of CRT sets, but to my eyes they're not there yet.

From an earlier post:
Just put up grey bars or white bars for the side and don't display anything in the middle. How? The time it takes to "erase" the burn-in will be in direct proportion to the amount of time that was spent watching 4:3 content with the black bars

How safe is this and will it actually work over time? ........Is it ok to display a constant black image in the middle with grey bars on the side?

I have had my Hitachi rptv for at least 8 years now and have never had a single burn in problem, i was wondering if it would be safe to play games on it. I recently purchased a Yamaha Htr 5890 av reciever and planned on using digital cable to connect my ps2 to my reciever. From there i planned on using the componet monitor output to connect my reciever to my rear projection tv. Please if you have any tips or information to give me on this topic please dont hisitate.

Extron videoshift (http://www.extron.com/product/product.asp?id=vs200sl)
"Just" 200 $ :eek: and you could solve your burn-in problem!!!
I couldn't find the price on the site, but I found the device on ebay at around 200 bucks.


BUt maybe there could be another, cheaper possibility:
How to generate video signals with a PIC microcontroller (http://www.rickard.gunee.com/projects/video/pic/howto.php)

How to build a video superimposer with a PIC microcontroller (http://dt.prohosting.com/pic/vidclock.html)

Maybe these projects could be a starting point to build a simple "plug-in" for TV sets, which just covers up the annoying logo and replaces them with a black rectangle? Not nice, but plasma TV sets would be safe! :)

Another idea: next generation's plasmas could imlpement SW/HW which gives just the suggested PIC effect (or better, it could gray out an user-selectable screen area).

How common is image retention on a LCD RPTV? I have a Sony KDF-50E2000 and see light vertcal lines to the left & right of the screen. Looks like border marks from 4:3 viewing. This should go away correct? I've been doing searchers all over and found very little about this subject with RP LCD's. Thanks

How common is image retention on a LCD RPTV? I have a Sony KDF-50E2000 and see light vertcal lines to the left & right of the screen. Looks like border marks from 4:3 viewing. This should go away correct? I've been doing searchers all over and found very little about this subject with RP LCD's. Thanks
"RP"?
"Rear projection" LCD??? I thought only CRTs could be "RP"! How can an LCD panel be "rear-projected"??? :confused:
And could LCD suffer from burn-in? There's nothing to be burnt, just crystals oriented in one way or in another and light passing through or not, no phosphors... I think!

I must investigate about this... :confused:

Well, looks like my knowledge about RP was quite limited...
http://tv.about.com/od/projectiontv/a/faqlcdrear.htm

Anyway, no burn-in is listed in know issues with RP LCD:
http://hometheater.about.com/cs/television/a/aarearprotv_2.htm

After further investigation of my set it may not be image retention. I put the 60% and 80% gray scale from DVE and I can see the faint line but it is still very hard to notice. During some HD programming, Discoveries Maryland on INHD I could see the faint line as the camera panned around Chess. Bay. Could this be just a limitation of the TV that I happened to see? Or should I get my dealer to look at it?

After further investigation of my set it may not be image retention. I put the 60% and 80% gray scale from DVE and I can see the faint line but it is still very hard to notice. During some HD programming, Discoveries Maryland on INHD I could see the faint line as the camera panned around Chess. Bay. Could this be just a limitation of the TV that I happened to see? Or should I get my dealer to look at it?

Could you take a picture of your screen using a camera and post it? It would help a lot.

Currently, with this "data", I am thinking to burn out, i.e. electronic failure which leads to some pixel not properly working (or even not working at all).

I can't take pictures at this time, I don't have a digital camera but my neighbor does. I'm gonna go see my dealer, he's 5min away. I'll keep you up to date, the burn out does make sense to me. I know I would have noticed it before, I have had this set for about 4 weeks.

Perhaps it's an FP that projects to the screen from behind??

Peter M.

Returned the set and got a new one. My dealer does authorized repair and suspects it may be the optical block. Thanks for the help guys!

My Hitachi CRT rear projection warns users not to view at 4:3 standard for more than 15% of total viewing time but my Sharp CRT non-wide screen TV says nothing about burn-in when watching wide screen material (DVDs) from the black bars on top and bottom. Do rear projectors have a more serious burn-in problem than regular CRTs?

Short answer: yes

Help!

I own two Samsung DLPs and have been extremely happy with them. I'm now moving to a house that has a TV cabinet that will only take a 32" wide unit. I had decided to go with LCD, because I still watch lots of 4:3 programming and don't care for stretched 4:3, and didn't want burned-in bars on either side of the screen if I purchased a plasma.

Now. while reading both the Panasonic and Samsung LCD owner's manual, they say that I have to watch for burn-in. Here's what the Samsung says:

"If you watch a still image or the 4:3 mode for a long time (over 2 hours), an image may be burned onto the screen.
View the TV in 16:9 mode as much as possible."

What gives? I thought it was impossible for an LCD flat screen to burn-in?

Thanks!

It can get temporary image retention, meaning when you turn off your LCD display the burned image will go away or by changing the channel to another.

I read a whole bunch of these posts and began to skim after a while, so please excuse me if this has been addressed already, but...

Assuming that one has already suffered some burn-in due to watching 4:3 matter and has noticed it before it gets too bad AND has changed viewing habits to prevent intensifying the effect: Before switching the black side bars to grey, would it work to "age" the side bars occasionally by switching them to white? Maybe even display a 4:3 black screen feed while doing so? I was wondering if this would bring the areas closer in appearance, thus reducing burn-in's noticeable effect?

I'm new to this as I research my next purchase, so please excuse my naivete. Thanks

How do you figure which ones are burned?

Where did you find parts?

I google with no luck and I do not trust Sears, where I bought it. I have no problem spending 3 to 6 hundred to fix a $3500 set.

My center 90% is darker (reddish) than the edges.

Thanks
Your RP CRT has three cathode ray tubes (CRT's) in it. One has red phosphor, one has blue phosphor and the other has green phosphor. The blue and green phosphor tend to fatigue faster than the red does. When the phosphor is fatigued (burned) it does not put out as much light as it normally would, therefore your reddish or pinkish picture indicates the green and blue phosphors are fatugued (burned).

Burn in is caused by driving the CRT's to heavily. Keep your contrast and brightness below 50% and your PRCRT will last 10-20 years.

Many people fail to turn the brightness and contrast down when they get a new RPCRT, because they assume the factory has set things optimally - WRONG!! The factory settings are to make the set look good in the brightness of the showroom where you bought the set, not your home.

You might be able to drive the edges as suggested in some of the posts above and even out the burn, then have the green and blue tubes turned up (screen settings) or have the red turned down to help match the weakness of the blue and green.

So, just to get this straight and to disspell any common myths about the burnin in CRT RPTVs, the burn in is in the projector, not in the screen. And replacing the screen will not solve the problem at all?

Do we have any in-depth reviews of Sony's KDS-60A2000 60-inch rear-projection HDTV?

So, just to get this straight and to disspell any common myths about the burnin in CRT RPTVs, the burn in is in the projector, not in the screen. And replacing the screen will not solve the problem at all?

See Jim's message before yours regarding the CRT's. The screen on an rptv just reflects light. The phosphors (or guns as some call them) can suffer uneven wear and retention.

Well, it was only a matter of time, I guess. My parents bought a Panasonic 47WX49 about 3 or 4 years ago and I forced them to have it professionally calobrated. The results were a really superb set. I have the same one, purchased about a year before they bought their set.

Mine has zero burnin. Their set does have noticeable burnin in from the side black bars. I just noticed it this past weekend while visiting. They don't seem to know about it, so I will not point it out, but despite the fact that their settings were right on the money (I always made sure everything was still OK) and that they watched about 50% 16X9 material, they still have suffered burnin.

CRT's suck. They plan on buying a new set when they move to NC next month and that means LCD or LCOS or DLP.

I have refused to allow them to buy a PLASMA. :eek:

I also have a Panasonic 47WX49 that we bought in 2000. I have just noticed some slight burn in from the side black bars recently and I have always had the contrast and brightness properly set. Ah well it's about time for a new and bigger set anyways. :D

I am picking up my 57f59 at the end of the month along with an x-box 360 :D , and I was wondering which home theater components should I get? Its gonna be put inside my living room (23ftx20ft) maybe a little bigger being as though its connected to my kitchen,and I'm looking to spend about $400. Video switching is a must. Thanks in advance,

Fatboy

Hi, I own a 57F510 Hitachi RPCRT. I use it pretty much only for Halo 2 and roughly 3 hours a day. The signal is a 1080i feed from an Xbox 360. It already got burned in once and the 3 cathgodes were replaced. Unfortunately, I knew nothing about burn in because I was dumb enough to believe the sales people.

What settings do you recommend for the TV to prevent burn in for as long as possible? Also, does anyone know how to tweak the overscan so I don't lose pats of the HUD and such in games?

Any suggestions? I get about 3 hours of Halo 2 in per day and I'd like to prevent burn-in. Should I set my TV to a looping full 16:9 video for another 6 hours after I'm done playing to even the phosphor wear?

I'm currently at 35 Contrast and 50 brightness and I think that's a s low of contrast I can tolerate despite my pitch black room.

I was all set to pull the trigger on a Panasonic plasma, but somebody is gonna run a deal on the Hitachi that I don't think I can pass up. Is there any benefit to running the break-in DVD on RP-CRT? Thanks.

I get my TV signal for my Hitachi 51F59A from my Comcast/Motorola HDDVR. The box has an adjustable setting for "4:3 Override". Can be set to output all non-HD programming in either 480i or p. This causes the TV to switch the display over to the 4:3 "gray bars" mode. The Moto's "strech" mode does a crappy job of stretching the image to 16x9 (the F59s 4:3 expand looks better). Or the override can be turned off. This causes all SD material to be upconverted in the Moto to output @ 1080i. I've noticed that this setting helps to smooth out some of the compression artifacts in SD/analog cable images a little bit (but not much) and slightly improves PQ in my eyes for SD material. And this setting leaves the TV in 16x9 std display mode, and the Moto generates it's own black 4:3 side bars.

My concern, of course, is 4:3 burn-in on my new F59. My previous CRT RPTV (Hitachi 43UWX10B) suffered a very slight case of 4:3 burn in after about 5 yrs of use. I do know that part of the problem was that the 43 had it's "Perfect Picture" mode on pretty much the entire time I used that TV. This setting negated contrast adjustment and basically locked contrast in what appeared to be btwn 70-100% at all times, depending on the amount of ambient light in the room. And after that 5 yrs of use (and the first half of that time spent w/o any HD programming--only DVD was displayed 16x9), the burn in did happen. But it was very subtle and could only be seen sometimes. I was running my cable box in the mode mentioned before, with it generating black sidebars (my brief time as a VOOM subscriber also had their box generating black side bars on 4:3 material). Prior to my 43's convergence IC failure (which led me to get the F59 instead of a costly out-of-warranty repair), I did switch my cable box back to 4:3 Override on @ 480p--and returning to gray bars for SD.

Currently, a liberal estimate of the amount of 4:3/SD material I watch on my F59 is maybe 30-40%. Just about everything we watch in terms of network TV is HD. But I do like having my cable box spit out upscaled 1080i for SD material and not having the F59 go blank for a second while it switches over to gray bars mode. The gray bars don't offend my sensibilities or anything, but the smooth transition to 4:3 images w/ black bars is nicer. And although I can switch the F59's gray bars to black, this is just another menu step I don't want to have to do. So...is this Moto setting gonna cause harm to the phosphor guns again? My F59s contrast/brightness settings are currenty:

Day:
Contrast-38
Brightness-58

Night:
Contrast-35
Brightness-56


I do use the F59's "4:3 Expand" on occasion. On some SD material, it looks pretty good. On others, "black/gray bar" 4:3 looks better. But I do alternate them depending on PQ. And again, a good 60-70% or more of my TV viewing is 16X9 anyway. If for any lame-ass reason I were to leave a image paused for any length of time, the Moto generates a screen saver after 60 seconds that covers the image part of the 4:3 picture with a black screen & bouncing Comcast logo.

So, is this a safe way to go? Or will the burn in surely happen again with my current settings before it's time to move on to another TV (hopefully, that's a long time coming!)?

Years ago, I visited this forum and was informed that burn-in can be prevented by lowering my contrast to about 1/3 on my rptv crt. I was told brightness setting would have no effect on burn-in, so not to worry about brightness. I noticed today that this thread mentions in the first post that turning down brightness and contrast help. So, question #1 = Does brightness matter?

Question #2 has to do with my LCD monitor. I was surprised to see the owners manual warn me about burn-in resulting from video games/still objects... I thought LCD screens couldn't get burn-in? Thoughts?

Question #3 is: If I turn my RPTV-crt contrast down to 1/3 level, can I safely play a video game console on it for a few hours at a time? In other words, is there any setting for a rptv-crt contrast level that makes it safe to use with something like the Playstation 3?

Thanks in advance!

After reading most of this and other highly informative threads, I’m almost sold on the Hitachi 57F59 over a DLP / LCD for the obvious reasons. Please help me over the hump by giving me some input on the following questions I still have.

How can a PC be hooked up to a 57F59 in order to use the TV as a computer monitor? If not the Hitachi, is there a different CRT RPTV (new model?) that works; and how should it be hooked up? I am not concerned with the burn-in factor, only that it gets on the screen and looks good.

I will be watching the TV from 10 feet away at a 20° angle, in a room with large, uncovered windows. How low might I be able to set the brightness and contrast without loosing too much PQ or the ability to read the crappy DirecTV menu? Should this unavoidable situation cause me to rule out a CRT RPTV?

Thanks to all who have herein contributed and continue to share experiences and ideas. While playing around with this my new toy, I’ll try to hit on something worthwhile and return the favor.

I have an older version of this same Hitachi, with a PC connected to it and it works fine. The PC has a DVI-to-Component adapter on the graphics card output, so I'm just running component cables from that point to the TV; I use this computer as a DVR and for capturing programs and the quality looks pretty good (as good as satellite SD gets), however if you're going to be using your computer for typical computer useage, I don't think this set is built to handle high resolution PC graphics very well. Text, names of folders in Windows, etc., are difficult to read. Not sure how much better an HDMI cable would do for you, but that's really all you would need to run a computer on a 57F59.

Someone in that particular forum would be able to better answer the rest of your questions...


After reading most of this and other highly informative threads, I’m almost sold on the Hitachi 57F59 over a DLP / LCD for the obvious reasons. Please help me over the hump by giving me some input on the following questions I still have.

How can a PC be hooked up to a 57F59 in order to use the TV as a computer monitor? If not the Hitachi, is there a different CRT RPTV (new model?) that works; and how should it be hooked up? I am not concerned with the burn-in factor, only that it gets on the screen and looks good.

I will be watching the TV from 10 feet away at a 20° angle, in a room with large, uncovered windows. How low might I be able to set the brightness and contrast without loosing too much PQ or the ability to read the crappy DirecTV menu? Should this unavoidable situation cause me to rule out a CRT RPTV?

Thanks to all who have herein contributed and continue to share experiences and ideas. While playing around with this my new toy, I’ll try to hit on something worthwhile and return the favor.

I have a Mitsubishi TV from 2002 and it has some bad burn-in from a Tony Hawk 2x (XBox) pause screen (and letterbox). Unfortunately, I can't find the game to possibly use the inverse colors method.

Does anybody have this game and an emulation program with which they can take a screen shot of a pause screen during a run?

I have an older version of this same Hitachi, with a PC connected to it and it works fine. The PC has a DVI-to-Component adapter on the graphics card output, so I'm just running component cables from that point to the TV; I use this computer as a DVR and for capturing programs and the quality looks pretty good (as good as satellite SD gets), however if you're going to be using your computer for typical computer useage, I don't think this set is built to handle high resolution PC graphics very well. Text, names of folders in Windows, etc., are difficult to read. Not sure how much better an HDMI cable would do for you, but that's really all you would need to run a computer on a 57F59.

Someone in that particular forum would be able to better answer the rest of your questions...

Hey crauen, thanks for the reply.
I take it that you use your setup mainly for HTPC purposes rather than a computer/monitor relationship. Rather than home theater, my reason for the 57" is to be able to read the DirecTV menus, etc from 10'+ away. And, if possible, use it as a monitor from the same distance.
Does your information that "Text, names of folders in Windows, etc., are difficult to read" relate to your experience with your system, or are you referring to the 57f59?
I have found a couple of stand-alone converter/adapters for VGA to HDMI. Is that the way to go?
I would appreciate input from anyone who has successfully used an f59 (or any CRT/RPTV) as a computer monitor.
Michael

I have the Hitachi 57F59A and currently have Contrast on 25% and Brightness on 63%. Most of the games I play are 4:3 and I use this TV primarly for gaming. Will using 4:3 standard with gray bars and these settings cause burn in? I've been using 4:3 expanded and it looks good but some of the image goes off the screen. And I have a Game Boy Player for GameCube that has 20 different borders that surround the picture when playing games. They are all still pictures like the gray bars except different colors. Will this cause burn in or are there certain colors that won't? If I switched to a different border every hour or two would it not cause burn in?

Well I fixed the burn in issue I was having with our older Panasonic 47WX49. We went out and got the Mitsubishi 52" DLP HDTV (WD-52631) for $1699 at Circuit City. I can't believe how much better it looks over the Panasonic. To be fair though the Panny was calibrated back in 2002 and at that time it looked great. It's been a long time since then and now it is in dire need of focus and convergence work.
No more worry about burn in with the new DLP, instead i get to replace bulbs hehe. :)

I have a Sony 57WS520 that is about 1 1/2 years old. When I first got the set, I did not use the stretch modes at all for 4:3 viewing (I know, I was a dumb a**). It took a while, but due to the grey bars on the side I can now see uneven wear. The extreme sides where the grey bars would be for 4:3 viewing are lighter / brighter than the center section of the image when watching 16:9 material. It is not as noticable as some of the pictures posted in this thread, but I can see it none the less.

I have created a "reverse burn-in DVD" to try to even the wear pattern out a bit. The main menu is simply a white background screen with a play button. I put the Sony in full stretch mode so that I can easily see the wear pattern. I created a blackout screen for the movie using an MPEG capture card on my PC that had the video cable disconnected. I recorded the black screen for an hour, and used this footage for the DVD. Before I play the blackout movie, I put the Sony back in 4:3 mode so it plays the blackout screen with the grey bars on the sides. The DVD will play the movie in loop mode, without going to the white menu screen until the menu button is pressed on the remote.

As near as I can tell, the wear pattern lines up to the reverse burn in pattern perfectly. I have only run the DVD for a few hours with the Sony in "Torch" mode to try to speed up the process. I will post updates to let everyone know if this works...

Looking for anyone that may be able to help. Is this burn in from the side bars my cable box puts on for 4x3 content? I don’t like the way my cable box stretches the image, so if I watch a 4x3 show, like Survivor, I get grey or black bars on the sides. Well, I think I’m screwed after a couple years of that, I see this now (see pics) on white or light backgrounds.

Is this something I can fix, or have fixed? Or am I kinda stuck with it. I really only see it on very light or white scenes in movies. But it’s there on all TV shows, games, and all DVD’s… when you watch a DVD that has a nice sky or something, you’ll see the area where the bars are is lighter then the rest of the image, no matter what color is on the sides, not just white… but the lighter the color, the more noticeable it is.

The pics I took are good enough to show you on a nice white background. Anyone know if this is fixable because from what I've been reading here, I am victim of burn in!

Tom

PS - I can't post images, as this is my 1st post here :( but I guess I'll just ask if this is fixable.

Hi,

I'm a new member here, but have been a lurker for 3-4 years.

I have a 5-year-old Mitsubishi 55-inch unit with severe screen burn. I've read a lot of stuff here and consulted with two repairmen on what needs to be done to fix our set. Unfortunately, I've gotten two different opinions from repairmen (without actually seeing the set). And from $500 to $1200 to fix it. So I'm asking the experts here what they think of this problem:

We've watched a lot of 4 X 3 in non-stretch mode, some at the beginning before we knew better. But mostly the last two years since we got the HR10-250 (and we can't stand it's "standard" mode). We've had the sidebar burn for a while, but in the last 3-4 months, we now have a pinkish color to the 4 X 3 portion of the screen which is really noticeable when there is a white background or a lot of sky.

One repairman swears replacing the "two" screens on the unit will fix the problem. Another one says we need to replace the guns (this is the one that said it would cost me $1200). After reading most of this thread, it sounds like the phosphorus is causing the pinkish/red color on the screen. If so, it sounds like the guns need to be replaced. With new rear projection units down to $1700-1800, it seems insane to spend $1200 to repair this set.

I'm of the mind to move the Mitsubishi into the bedroom and get a newer 55 inch unit for the LR. Unfortunately, my husband is against getting a new TV (can you believe a man would feel that way?) Haha! But I'm the A/V nut in our household.

Any advice anyone can give me as to which repair might fix this particular problem would be greatly appreciated.

Cheryl

First, smart move to look into the suggested fixes before jumping in. I am no expert, but my understanding is that burn in is indeed the guns. The screens only reflect what is projected onto them, so it seems strange that that could be a possible fix.

Those in the know please...

Chaz

Cheryl,

Same problem with my set:

After owning my 65" Mitsubishi HDTV CRT for 6 years, it finally happened.

BURN IN!

My wife stayed home one day and left some 4:3 material on all day long.

It's weird but the area where the left and right black bars are would be looks fine. The center area has a more "purple" tint to it compared to the sides now.

It's not bad but whenever watching something HD and 16:9, there is a white background, like snow, you can eaisily see the difference in color to where the black bars would be on 4:3.

So, with RPTV CRTs, is there a way I can burn in the entire picture so it's not as noticeable?

Please PM me. I looked through the thread but did not see a specific answer.

Thanks!

Picture showing the "pink" 4:3 image in the middle:

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/9898/lukedec216ya8.jpg

So, ir possible to "burn in" the sides so they are pink too?

Or should I just buy a new set?

Folks,

Probably 1/3 of the time my TV is displaying Halo2, I have owned my Panasonic 47" RPTV for 2 years and I have "burn in" from the Halo2 Health and ammo meters. (I have a burned in circle in the bottom left hand corner, and the upper left and right hand corners have burned in rectangles from my ammo meter.)

I've looked into tools like Jscreenfix or even displaying a grey pattern on my TV for several hours to try and lessen the degree of burn-in but it really sounds like I need a custom-made image that is the exact reverse of the Halo2 Health Meters and Ammo meters to give me the best chance of reducing the burn in effect.

(Blue seems to be the only color that has burn in and only for these areas of the screen.)

Does anyone have a halo 2 screenshot in 16x9 that I could reverse the colors on to try and reduce the appearance of burn-in? (I'm thinking everywhere the meters and ammo are on the screen replace them with black, and everywhere else on the screen make blue. (as it is the blue color that seems to be burned in.)

Anyone else run into this problem and have a good test image for dealing with Halo2 burn-in?

Hi all... brand new here:) Could not go thru every burn in post so just decided to post one on the chance it ihas NOT been mentioned before. I have a rear proj Samsung and use Dish network with the PVR box to pause record, etc...

Problem: Over the course of pausing shows, the pause 'clock' display comes up on the middle right of the screen. Over time this has left a faint, very faint, yellow burn in on the screen where the clock numbers are.

Solution (though a little too late for me). Pause your show, then immediately change it to 1/15th or 1/4th speed. The clock timer goes away and the show just proceeds at the slower speed. BUT there will be no more B/I due to the timer. You just back up your show and are good to go. Hope it helps those with systems that leave a timer or other type of display on screen. Regards, Golf

It's weird but the area where the left and right black bars are would be looks fine. The center area has a more "purple" tint to it compared to the sides now.

It's not bad but whenever watching something HD and 16:9, there is a white background, like snow, you can eaisily see the difference in color to where the black bars would be on 4:3.

So, with RPTV CRTs, is there a way I can burn in the entire picture so it's not as noticeable?

Please PM me. I looked through the thread but did not see a specific answer.

Thanks!

So, ir possible to "burn in" the sides so they are pink too?

Or should I just buy a new set?
The short answer is "yes", it is possible. The long answer...

I had the same effect on my Panasonic 56" set. After a few years I finally started noticing screen burn-in over the past few months, and it had the same pinkish/purplish tint in the middle. I have the HR 10-250 HD TiVo and mostly watch HD, but the 4:3 I have watched over the years (about 35% of the viewing), even with gray bars and proper calibration, eventually took it's toll.

I took pictures of the screen showing a full white background with my digital camera and examined them in Photoshop (I used a long exposure at night with no lights on). It turned out that there was no detectable burn-in on the red tube, it was all in the green and blue, which explains the tint in the middle (since the blue and green were diminished with red as bright as ever, it had a pinkish tint).

To correct for the problem, I created an image in Photoshop that had cyan (blue-green) bars on the sides to burn the blue and green to match the middle. I figured since the red had no detectable burn I didn't want to mess with it by using white (or gray) bars. Either it would have no effect over using cyan because red is apparently immune to burn-in, or it would have an effect and cause a mismatch in red where there was none before. I used full brightness cyan at the edge of the burn in, and decided to fade the bars to a darker shade of cyan at the edges so less burn in would take place there. Since the brightness falls off to the sides that would compensate for that effect a bit by not burning it as much there. Using my HTPC I displayed the image on the screen overnight for several nights in a row with the contrast (picture) cranked up to the max. I made sure the bars lined up exactly with the edge of the burn-in. Each day I checked to see how it looked with a fully white screen, and after a few days the burn-in had diminished to the point where I could hardly notice it even if I tried.

If you don't have an HTPC you can still do essentially the same thing by displaying a completely black video frame in 4:3 mode with gray bars and crank the contrast all the way up (possibly the brightness too but make sure the center stays dark). Do that for a few hours or overnight and check it with some bright or white 16:9 video. It might take several days, but be careful and check it regularly to make sure you don't go too far and burn it the other way (more on the sides than the middle).

Apparently in some sets the red doesn't burn in nearly as much, which would result in a "red push" over time. This can be compensated for by recalibrating (after burning the side bars out). You could turn down the red component a bit if you have access to the controls, but make sure the black level for red stays correct or you will end up with shifting color temperatures through the grays. Simply increasing the color temperature if you have such a control may also do the trick. The only explanation I can think of for the red burning in less is that maybe the red phosphor or filter is more efficient and naturally brighter than the green and blue for the same beam strength, making the red beam relatively weaker at the correct white point, resulting in less burn-in for it.

I should mention that I did some things that are supposed to be bad in terms of screen burn, such as use the HTPC with windows in the same place or games with overlays for hours on end, and watch channels with logos and scrolling text areas quite a bit, as well as use the TiVo menus, guide, and time bar a lot. Luckily the only noticeable burn in was from the 4:3 viewing, and that was with gray bars. If I ever end up with more complex burn-in, I'll take a picture of the screen and make a high contrast negative image in Photoshop, carefully aligned to the burn-in, and use that to eliminate it (or at least reduce it). Without an HTPC and some Photoshop skills (it would be harder than you might think to make a picture line up well enough to work properly, eliminating all distortion and overall brightness variation across the screen), you could try to diminish such a problem by displaying a bright white image over the whole screen for a long time with the contrast cranked (pause on a white frame in stretch mode).

- Dave

My JVC 61FN97 arrives this Thursday; both Beach Camera and the shipping carrier instructed me to open the box and carefully examine the TV for any signs of damage before accepting (signing for) the delivery. Besides obvious 'physical trauma', are there certain things I should check? As I understood, the driver can wait up to 15 minutes while I 'examine' the TV, but I don't know if plugging it in and turning it on is permitted.

Is there a procedure/check-list for this posted here? If not, any advice/tips/pointers would be welcomed and appreciated.

Sounds like some of you are finally using my idea from like 2 and a half years ago (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4132421&&#post4132421) ;)

Good to know that it really works!

I was wondering if you or anyoneelse could tell me if my Mitsubishi rear projection LCD is also succeptable to burn-in issues.???

Are the Sony SXRD's suseptable to burn in?

LCD technology is not susceptible to burn in. I've owned the Grandfather of Sony LCD technology the KLW-9000 for over 5 years and have had no burn in on the set. Some various colored fog from dust though which I clean out and fix up about once a year.

Hey guys, first post!!!

My friend just told me this forum and i'm stoked with all the info. i've found so far.

But my question guys is I have a Toshiba 51" H84 that I bought roughly 1.5-2 years ago and I have noticed on the sides a little browning? Looks to me like maybe dust, behind the screen, or burn-in, not too sure. I have been severely anal about turning down my brightness/contrast to 50 and always stretch my non high def broadcasts. Sometimes I catch my girlfriend not stretching the screen but she is careful now and with the brightness being so low and the fact that even if she watches tv with the black bars it's not for very long, what are these marks?

I have another 3 years of extra warranty as well. PLUS, when i do the convergence that comes with the tv, on the corners (especially bottom right) the right blue part jumps kind of to the top of the crosshair.

What do you guys think?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

I had posted this as a separate thread...was wondering
why it didn't get any replies until I noticed this master
thread, all hidden here at the top of the page :rolleyes:

Anyhow, about burn-in on LCD RPTVs...
I'm using a Panasonic PT-61LCX65 LCD RPTV. It's
been great so far. I prefer to watch things
in their OAR, so I watch all full screen channels/movies
with side bars.

Recently, I started noticing something odd. I was
watching that James Coburn winter olympics
documentary on INHD (do you guys also sometimes watch
things just becuase they'e HD rather than for content ),
and I noticed that the screen looked more faint on the
sides where the sidebars would be. Whenever they would
show snow spanning the whole screen, the two sides
would be of a different, more faint tone. Looked almost
like burn-in, but how can that happen on an RPTV-LCD?
Then, I started noticing this at other times as well.

So, I switched over to one of the stretched modes for
a while. I dislike watching like that, but maybe it'll even things out.

Any thoughts or ideas as to whay this is happening?

I had posted this as a separate thread...was wondering
why it didn't get any replies until I noticed this master
thread, all hidden here at the top of the page :rolleyes:

Anyhow, about burn-in on LCD RPTVs...
I'm using a Panasonic PT-61LCX65 LCD RPTV. It's
been great so far. I prefer to watch things
in their OAR, so I watch all full screen channels/movies
with side bars.

Recently, I started noticing something odd. I was
watching that James Coburn winter olympics
documentary on INHD (do you guys also sometimes watch
things just becuase they'e HD rather than for content ),
and I noticed that the screen looked more faint on the
sides where the sidebars would be. Whenever they would
show snow spanning the whole screen, the two sides
would be of a different, more faint tone. Looked almost
like burn-in, but how can that happen on an RPTV-LCD?
Then, I started noticing this at other times as well.

So, I switched over to one of the stretched modes for
a while. I dislike watching like that, but maybe it'll even things out.

Any thoughts or ideas as to whay this is happening?

If you had uneven wear, or burn in, due to watching 4:3 material, the sides would be brighter not more faint. Not sure what it is though...

I want to make sure I got this right. I have a 5 1/2 year old Mitsu 65 HD Projection TV. We watched too much 4:3 and now the sides are noticeably brighter then the center along the bars. When we watched 4:3 in the past the TV was set to grey bars. If I set them to black bars, will that over time balance it out? Or do I need to measure which color needs to be balanced and display them as the bars. Thanks

I want to make sure I got this right. I have a 5 1/2 year old Mitsu 65 HD Projection TV. We watched too much 4:3 and now the sides are noticeably brighter then the center along the bars. When we watched 4:3 in the past the TV was set to grey bars. If I set them to black bars, will that over time balance it out? Or do I need to measure which color needs to be balanced and display them as the bars. Thanks


No. Gray bars on with nothing in the middle (black) would give the opposite effect. Check this thread for instructions regarding using the "negative" technique (or whatever you call it)

What was your Contrast set to all that time?

Brightness was at 75% and contrast was at 60%.

Brightness was at 75% and contrast was at 60%.

On the low end of "Torch Mode", unfortunately.

My current CRT RPTV (2006 Hitachi 51F59A) runs with Contrast never higher than 35 during daytime (down to almost 20 at night), with brightness in the upper 50's. Whether the rom is brightly lit or not, the pic is bright and easy to see.

For CRT and plasma sets, any contrast level above 50 is generally considered Torch Mode. Of course, they all come OOB with Contrast cranked up. :mad:

It's often thought that the first 100 hrs of regular use are the most crucial when it comes to "baby-ing" your set. I've seen/heard of plasmas getting burn-in within the 1st year. I've also come across some CRT RPTVs that are 10-15 yrs old without any visible burn-in. You just never know.

My last HD set was also a Hitachi CRT RPTV (43UWX10B). It started to show slight signs of 4:3 burn-in after about 5 yrs of use. During most of those 5 yrs, the COntrast was up pretty high, as the set had it's Perfect Picture setting engaged. Thos setting used a light sensor to auto adjust brightness/contrast depending on the ambient light in the room. But it also locked Contrast btwn 70-100. At the time, most 4:3 was displayed w/ black pillarbox bars.

The tips on this thread may help you out. Or, if you just really love the TV overall, one or more of the guns could be replaced. That can be a pricey repair, but could still be less than a new set would run you.

Or, it's time to get a new TV.

can you get burn in from a single image paused on a tv for several hours straight?

can you get burn in from a single image paused on a tv for several hours straight?

YES!

Of course, contrast levels and the paused image itself play a factor.

Mr Bob mentioned sometime back a pricey CRT FP he was asked to service that had been left on overnight (?) with a DVD menu screen left displayed. Said menu screen was permanently etched into the phosphors.

"Back to the question, is there anything that can be done to fix burn in? Yes, there is. As stated before "burn-in" is the uneven wear, or aging, of phosphors. You can reduce it by reversing the image of the screen. For example, let's say that you have the middle of the screen burned in because you used black bars when watching 4:3 content. Just put up grey bars or white bars for the side and don't display anything in the middle. How? Just unplug your STB from the unit when in 4:3 mode. The time it takes to "erase" the burn-in will be in direct proportion to the amount of time that was spent watching 4:3 content with the black bars"

First dumb question, what does STB stand for and If I unplug it will it work?
Second question is, if I replace the CRT's will the problem will go away?

I'm not sure if I would risk trying these reversal tricks ("stb" is a technical term for a cable box, satellite receiver, etc); I had the same problem, and the only way to fix it properly was to have a technician check each individual CRT for burn-in. The red tube was perfectly fine, however the blue and green tubes were really bad. I was very lucky to find parts for my set (a Hitachi SWX model from 2001), but once replaced, the display has looked better than it did at the time I purchased it. So yes, replacing the CRT tubes *will* fix the problem - you'll just have to do a bit of searching to find the tubes. Good luck!

Thanks, that's what I thought....

im owrried

Thanks, that's what I thought....

yep

So here is my deal:

I have a Hitachi 50VS69a. I have owned this TV since 12-06. A few weeks ago I noticed the "faded" sidebars (aka burn-in) like it appeared overnight.

98% of our viewing is HD or DVD. The only thing watched in 4:3 is kid channels, but the gray bars are on the sides. Now correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the gray bars there to protect from burn-in? Should I have seen this burn-in coming (ie gradual burn-in) ir should it have appeared suddenly overnight.

I am going to contact Hitachi concerning this. I feel this should not have happened especially the way I "baby" this TV. I was just curious of what you guys thought.

So here is my deal:

I have a Hitachi 50VS69a. I have owned this TV since 12-06. A few weeks ago I noticed the "faded" sidebars (aka burn-in) like it appeared overnight.

98% of our viewing is HD or DVD. The only thing watched in 4:3 is kid channels, but the gray bars are on the sides. Now correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the gray bars there to protect from burn-in? Should I have seen this burn-in coming (ie gradual burn-in) ir should it have appeared suddenly overnight.

I am going to contact Hitachi concerning this. I feel this should not have happened especially the way I "baby" this TV. I was just curious of what you guys thought.

Isn't this model an LCD RPTV? Shouldn't this be impervious to "burn-in" as no phosphors are in use?

Image retention, perhaps? That'd be my guess, esp since it popped up "overnight". Would be interested to hear if the same 4:3 image situation was still visible after turning off the TV overnight.

Update:

This supposed "burn-in" thing was really weighing on me. I can find no where on this forum, or the Web for that matter, of these TVs having burn-in issues. So, I took the initiative and emailed Hitachi USA. Guess what?? I actually got a response. Not just a response, but a good response. I was told that my email had been forwarded to the Customer Response Dept. who would be calling me in 24 to 48 hours. I go the call today.

I was told by Hitachi that this TV DOES NOT have burn-in issues. I was also told that the customer service person I spoke with at Hitachi was being dealt with due to his telling me that the issue was due to burn-in when it was not.

Anyways, Hitachi is calling Sears (where I got the TV) to ask them what their deal is and why they were so quick to dismiss it as burn-in. I will keep you posted on what happens. Hopefully we come out of this with a like new TV!

ok really really dumb question ...

went through this thread and just want to make sure i understand the DLP are not prone to burn in ?

I have been getting into the habit of watching a lot of CNBC and want to be sure i wont get any burn in from the scroll bar on the bottom....

thanks
dave

ok really really dumb question ...

went through this thread and just want to make sure i understand the DLP are not prone to burn in ?

I have been getting into the habit of watching a lot of CNBC and want to be sure i wont get any burn in from the scroll bar on the bottom....

thanks
dave


No burn-in worries for a DLP-based set.

Burn-in is an (avoidable) issue on any phosphor-based tecnnology - such as CRT and/or Plasma.

DLP/LCD/LCoS - no burn in worries.

A Potential Problem with LCD: Long Term Image Degradation

Texas Instruments recently released the results of a lab test conducted last year which highlighted a failure mode in LCD technology that does not exist with DLP. Given enough time, it appears that LCD panels, primarily those in the blue channel, will degrade, causing shifts in color balance and a reduction of overall contrast. The test did not include a large enough array of test units to draw any conclusions about anticipated rates of degradation under normal operating conditions.

However it is possible that those who invest in an LCD projector may find that eventually the LCD panel and polarizer in the blue channel may need replacement. This is not much of a problem if the unit is under warranty. But if it isn't, the replacement of an LCD panel will represent an unpleasant incremental investment in your projector that you were not anticipating. (See more details on TI's test and our thoughts on it.)

A TV repair tech said that watching 4:3 material in normal aspect ratio (leaving black bars) will burn-in to the DLP optics. I was unaware that burn-in affected DLPs? Is this true? He said over time you will notice the box. After owning a Samsung HL-T5688 and leaving it 4:3 for a year I didn't notice a box when I used 16:9 material...

This TV tech specializes in DLP TVs. He just got done working on a blown out power supply on a Samsung LED DLP set before coming to work on my Samsung HL-T5676S DLP set.

I lowered my brightness and contrast to just a little over 50% is this good to prevent burn in. I have a hitachi 51f59. Contrast 53
Btightness 58

I lowered my brightness and contrast to just a little over 50% is this good to prevent burn in. I have a hitachi 51f59. Contrast 53
Btightness 58

Anything 50 or less for contrast is best - the lower, the better.

Contrast is the real phosphor "torch", brightness not so much.

I own the same TV, and use it's day/night timer to full effect. Slightly higher C/B levels for day (watched less).

For my F59, the contrast is actually down to around 35/brightness 60 for Day, Contrast 28/56 brightness for night.

These levels were set while using AVIA, DVE & THX Optimizer test screens.

And always remember to vary the type of programming viewed, unless you display everything 16x9 (stretched 4:3, for example)

Hi:

I just had a Best buy tech out to the house to fix my Toshiba 52" rear projection set. He told me my TV that I have been using for 3 years had never been set up correctly and has some very minor burn in.

He set up my set correctly and suggested I purchase a disc that will project a white image on my screen. He said if I leave that screen up for a day or two it will even out or fade the burn in. He could not recall the name of the disc.

Does anyone know if this will work and has anyone used such a disc?
Thanks

Kevin

i have read every thing i could for weeks on hdtv, i was going to get a rear projection set because of burn in (and size to $). i play video games and watch news with banners all day. every thing i read says no burn in for rear projection. i have gone on the owners threads for sony and samsung, i saw just about every problem but burn in. even with rear projection having more problems, they are covered by the extended warranty. burn in is not covered , i cant see spending thousands and getting burn in..... is it true?? do rear proj. get burn in??? how common is it ??


**edit** not crt rear proj. but the newer micro displays like dlp and others

i have read every thing i could for weeks on hdtv, i was going to get a rear projection set because of burn in (and size to $). i play video games and watch news with banners all day. every thing i read says no burn in for rear projection. i have gone on the owners threads for sony and samsung, i saw just about every problem but burn in. even with rear projection having more problems, they are covered by the extended warranty. burn in is not covered , i cant see spending thousands and getting burn in..... is it true?? do rear proj. get burn in??? how common is it ??


**edit** not crt rear proj. but the newer micro displays like dlp and others
Since no one is replying in this forum anymore, I will answer your question.

The DLP sets are not known for burn-in issues. However, I have been told that they *could* be susceptible to burn-in if you leave a 4:3 image up for long periods of time... with physical evidence to prove it. I do not know how long it took to burn-in, but I imagine it took 24/7 for a year to do it. No one is going to do that in reality though. You will have nothing to worry about.

I have an early RPTV Sony XBR CRT TV (65"). I recently noticed a faint blue hue to the right half of the screen. I tried the flash focus and while it is calibrating it doesn't seem to show this but when it completes this the blue hue is back. Is this burn in and if not does anyone have thoughts as to what is causing this. Is it worth having someone come to fix this or should I just look at replacing it soon for a newer TV with HDMI inputs?

Thanks,
Brian

I've posted this also in the LCD RP Sony Grand Wega A10 series thread and seems like know one can help me so I was hoping anyone here would.

I bought my Sony KDF-E50A10 LCD RP in Dec.'05 and just checked the lamp hours to be 7400hrs. It's still the original lamp and I haven't changed it yet.

I use my display for PC also and noticed about a week ago a discoloration in the center of the screen. A yellowish/light brown color almost looking like a burnt hue. I refer to it the blob.

If anyone has any ideas what I should do please post any advice. I may just buy a new lamp or just buy a new display.

-Thanks

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6928/a10007fl2.jpg

Burn in hasn't been a problem with RPTV's for the past 5-7 years. Why is this thread still a sticky??

This thread is over FOUR years old!

Burn in hasn't been a problem with RPTV's for the past 5-7 years. Why is this thread still a sticky??
This thread is over FOUR years old!
Simply to tick you off. We've all done it on purpose and I'm delighted to see it worked!

...

Because you are in error. Doubly so, in fact.

Burn-in is always a problem for CRT-based RPTVs. Nothing magical, despite your shouting about it, has happened recently to change that -- except for the reduction (if not elimination) of the production of CRT-based RPTVs.

As for your "5-7 years," I simply offer that my correctly calibrated three-year old Hitachi has (mild) burn-in on the sides from watching too much unstretched 4:3 material -- despite the use of grey side-bars -- and once I noticed it, I was very glad this thread was here.

Is it becoming less useful as the technology involved becomes less prevalent? Perhaps. But it is not because the information here is itself outdated or irrelevant.

Whether or not this is reason enough to unstick the thread is a matter for other heads than mine to decide.

Because you are in error. Doubly so, in fact.....and the error regarding the lack of burn-in with DLP RPTV's is?
Burn-in is always a problem for CRT-based RPTVs. Yea, so.
I would like to believe any current owner of a RPTV would already know this by now. It surely doesn't deserve 'sticky' status. :rolleyes:

Does anyone out there have any info or experience with replacement crts for prtvs? It seem to me that the tubes could be changed out to eliminate the dre4aded burn-in problem???

Ok i have a LCD rear-projection. A sony wega 60'.
I played a game called worldofwarcraft through a PC using a DVI cable. Last week I noticed a burn-in. Which is wierd becasue I didnt think a LCD could do this.
I began to think of what caused it I have had it for 6 years and nver seen this happen.
I then remembered that I changed the resolution ingame to soething like 1920/1080. Well my TV is just 1080i. Could this be the reason??
I plan on using that nokio test utliity to run for a few hours...but wil this even fix it??
Strange thought you guys should know.
Does anyone have information on this type of fix?

I have black bar burn-in on my panasonic 53TW53g RPTV. My question is: Where is the burn in actually at, in the tubes or ive heard the guns?

Is it in all the tubes or guns or just one of the 3?

Just thought I would add this to the thread. I have a sony kp57ws510 we got in 2004. I hated the stretched picture so for the firwt year we had it, we watched in 4:3 with grey bars. When I got the HD box a year later I noticed the burn in of the side bars - especially on bright one color images - such as the sky. So I reset the picture to wide zoom and learned to live with it, and now 3 years later it is almost gone.

A TV repair tech said that watching 4:3 material in normal aspect ratio (leaving black bars) will burn-in to the DLP optics. I was unaware that burn-in affected DLPs? Is this true? He said over time you will notice the box. After owning a Samsung HL-T5688 and leaving it 4:3 for a year I didn't notice a box when I used 16:9 material...

This TV tech specializes in DLP TVs. He just got done working on a blown out power supply on a Samsung LED DLP set before coming to work on my Samsung HL-T5676S DLP set.

I've seen DLP "burn in" happen. It's very slight with normal viewing, but you can see it when the DMD chip is pulled. Samsung is the only set I've seen it on.

A Potential Problem with LCD: Long Term Image Degradation

Texas Instruments recently released the results of a lab test conducted last year which highlighted a failure mode in LCD technology that does not exist with DLP. Given enough time, it appears that LCD panels, primarily those in the blue channel, will degrade, causing shifts in color balance and a reduction of overall contrast. The test did not include a large enough array of test units to draw any conclusions about anticipated rates of degradation under normal operating conditions.

However it is possible that those who invest in an LCD projector may find that eventually the LCD panel and polarizer in the blue channel may need replacement. This is not much of a problem if the unit is under warranty. But if it isn't, the replacement of an LCD panel will represent an unpleasant incremental investment in your projector that you were not anticipating. (See more details on TI's test and our thoughts on it.)

Yep I've seen the blue LCD go bad on this set also.

Does anyone out there have any info or experience with replacement crts for prtvs? It seem to me that the tubes could be changed out to eliminate the dre4aded burn-in problem???

Replacing the CRT's will resolve the burn in, but that doesn't mean the new CRT's are immune to it.

I've posted this also in the LCD RP Sony Grand Wega A10 series thread and seems like know one can help me so I was hoping anyone here would.

I bought my Sony KDF-E50A10 LCD RP in Dec.'05 and just checked the lamp hours to be 7400hrs. It's still the original lamp and I haven't changed it yet.

I use my display for PC also and noticed about a week ago a discoloration in the center of the screen. A yellowish/light brown color almost looking like a burnt hue. I refer to it the blob.

If anyone has any ideas what I should do please post any advice. I may just buy a new lamp or just buy a new display.

-Thanks

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6928/a10007fl2.jpg

Looks like your blue LCD panel is starting to fail.

If you don't have an HTPC you can still do essentially the same thing by displaying a completely black video frame in 4:3 mode with gray bars and crank the contrast all the way up (possibly the brightness too but make sure the center stays dark). Do that for a few hours or overnight and check it with some bright or white 16:9 video. It might take several days, but be careful and check it regularly to make sure you don't go too far and burn it the other way (more on the sides than the middle).
- Dave

That is an excellent idea, one could just make a blank black 4:3 DVD video and pause it, use gray bars and crank the contrast all the way up.

I was thinking it might even be better to make a DVD at 16:9 with three videos, all black images, with blue side bars on one, one with red side bars and one with green bars and alternate between the three colors for same periods of time until the image is smoothed out.

When my new Power supply board gets here I will give both ways a shot and see.

This is for 4:3 burn in on a widescreen where the 4:3 burned in image is darker than the sidebars.

Mr. Bob explained to me that;

"Screenburn is defined as uneven phosphor aging, which is what happens with black sidebars, or gray sidebars with a thick black line of demarcation."

Obviously the way to fix it without replacing the CRT's would be to even out the ageing on the sidebars.

So I came up with this idea as a possible solution to ageing the side bars;

Download here:
http://rapidshare.com/files/247375786/Burn_in_Fix.rar

Or here:
http://www.MegaShare.com/1117593

It is a 46 minute “looping” DVD that has a full light blue screen that lasts 60 seconds so you can monitor the progress, along with 15 minutes of red sidebars, 15 minutes of blue sidebars, 15 minutes of green sidebars, all with a black center.

To use just burn it to DVD and play it or launch from an HTPC.

I have not tested it yet on my Pioneer, as I need to fix its shut down problem first but thought I would post it to get some feedback on whether this will work or not.

Think it will work?