Well I just my HD installed today, and while I am happy with the PQ, I'm dissapointed with the way 4:3 sources are now displayed with black bars on the left and right in Full mode. The only way I can get it to fill my screen is with horizontal expand, but there is obvious picture clipping when doing that. My question...is there anyway to display 4:3 pic sources using the full screen without clipping? Thanks.

No, and that's the same truth for any 16:9 display.

Ordered March 1 from ABT, arrived March 10. Took a bit long because I live 100 miles from any major metro city. Team Air sent it to Nashville, Tn. and they then had to hire a private "cartage" co. to get it to my house. The driver said they hired him to drive the 100 miles and my 960 was the only item he had in his delivery van. He did a nice job of getting it into my house, unpacking it, and helping me to lift it up on my TV table. This was standard shipping, not the optional "whiteglove" service. Both ABT Electronics and Team Air were commendable in their service. Thanks to all the input from people here at AVS, I now have a TV that has the best color and Picture Quality of any TV I have ever seen! I wouldn't have known about the SONY 960N nor ABT Electronics had it not been for this site. Thanks again. One last point, I'm not very "electronically versed" and was somewhat concerned about getting this set connected and going. It basically was make a couple antenna connections on the back, plug it in, put the batteries in the remote, turn the power on, and you're ready to watch TV. I'm very happy with the factory settings but may tweak them a little as I get accustomed to the remote and read the owner's manual. Yep, I'm one happy camper! Sure am glad you talked me into buying this set before most of the retailers ran out of them and the ABT $1,400 delivered price was Sweet!

If anyone is interested BB is closing out the Genuine Sony stand for the 960 for two hundred bucks off, in store only, check stock on their website. Click on the store pickup link to check availability in your area. I picked one up today, at that price it was worth it.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?categoryid=cat03116&id=1127211257165&skuid=6807743&type=product&loc=01&srccode=cii_5766179&cpncode=12-2158369&cmp=KA14525&ref=16&loc=01

Well I just my HD installed today, and while I am happy with the PQ, I'm dissapointed with the way 4:3 sources are now displayed with black bars on the left and right in Full mode. The only way I can get it to fill my screen is with horizontal expand, but there is obvious picture clipping when doing that. My question...is there anyway to display 4:3 pic sources using the full screen without clipping? Thanks.

use full mode? i'm not sure what you are asking/expecting. you can't make 4:3 fill a 16:9 display without altering the picture some way. full mode will stretch it to fill the screen but you will notice the stretch. i just us normal mode and deal with the bars.

edit: i guess i misunderstood your question. i'm not sure why the tv displays bars in full mode. mine just stretches the picture to fill the screen.

on HD stations 4:3 content is still displayed in full mode, this is noraml as the black bars you see are part of the broadcast, if it bothers you switch to the standard definition station so you can use widezoom or whatever

on HD stations 4:3 content is still displayed in full mode, this is noraml as the black bars you see are part of the broadcast, if it bothers you switch to the standard definition station so you can use widezoom or whatever

Try your cable box. My HD DVR has a stetch setting for watching 4x3 material broadcast on a HD station. The stretch is proportional (unlike the 960's wide stretch used for digital stations) but at least it eliminates the black bars without cutting off too much on the edges.

the XBR has full mode for horizontally stretching 480i/p content
and horizontal stretch for horitontally stretching 1080i/720p content

If anyone is interested BB is closing out the Genuine Sony stand for the 960 for two hundred bucks off, in store only, check stock on their website. Click on the store pickup link to check availability in your area. I picked one up today, at that price it was worth it.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?categoryid=cat03116&id=1127211257165&skuid=6807743&type=product&loc=01&srccode=cii_5766179&cpncode=12-2158369&cmp=KA14525&ref=16&loc=01

Just a note depending on how picky you are.

This stand was originally made for the 910 prior to the 960. It was a perfect color match. 910s were slightly darker.

When changing out to the 960, there is a slight mismatch in the darkness of the color - most would not notice - but if you had a 910 and then put a 960 in its place - it stands out.

Be warned if a slight variation such as that is a concern to you. Again, most except the fanatics would not notice it.

Just put my new XBR960 in a couple of days ago and have found a couple of local HD broadcasts. What an awesome picture! Definitely worth the drive and the trouble getting the monster in the living room.

What player?

I'm using an Oppo set to 1080i, and it looks pretty damn good (not quite as sharp as the HD channels of course,) but it still looks better than the TV's scaler does when dealing with 480p.

It's the Samsung DVD-HD755. 480P looks great, but the image becomes soft and looses detail when outputting 1080i. Not sure if it's the player or my set. HD through component (my cablebox) looks amazing though...

I did not calibrate for the DVI input though, althought I can't see it making a difference as it just seems way too "off".

Just got my XBR960 today while I was at work. When I got home I was relieved to see that it was in fact the "N" model. I also checked for the manufacture date on back of the Tv which was February 2006. Sucks though cuz I still don't got a stand for it yet. So It's just sitting in the kitchen floor for now, lol. My first impression of this set compared to that of the 30xs955(returned to crutchfield) is that the 960 has a much cooler remote It looks really nice. I still couldn't understand why the xs955 remotes are so ugly looks like sony only spent about a dollar to make em. But that probly doesn't matter to some people since they upgrade to much better remotes anyways. And, the 4 extra inches makes such a huge difference I really underestimated the difference before. All in all I think it was a blessing(so to speak) that my 30xs955 had some very severe ghosting issues and I got another chance to pick a 960. I'll add some more later when I actually get it set up, hehe.

Just got my XBR960 today while I was at work. When I got home I was relieved to see that it was in fact the "N" model. I also checked for the manufacture date on back of the Tv which was February 2006. Sucks though cuz I still don't got a stand for it yet. So It's just sitting in the kitchen floor for now, lol. My first impression of this set compared to that of the 30xs955(returned to crutchfield) is that the 960 has a much cooler remote It looks really nice. I still couldn't understand why the xs955 remotes are so ugly looks like sony only spent about a dollar to make em. But that probly doesn't matter to some people since they upgrade to much better remotes anyways. And, the 4 extra inches makes such a huge difference I really underestimated the difference before. All in all I think it was a blessing(so to speak) that my 30xs955 had some very severe ghosting issues and I got another chance to pick a 960. I'll add some more later when I actually get it set up, hehe.

Izzy, congratulations on the new addition and glad you were still able to get one of the few 960's remaining on the market. My 960 replaced a 32 inch 4x3 toshiba which had the equivalent of a 29 inch 16x9 picture and while I was concerned that five extra inches would not make a major difference I was so happy to see how huge it really was.

Regarding the remote, I did not realize the center button needed to be pushed left, right etc. - I was pressing it downward on the appropriate edge (the norm on most joysticks) and could not make menu adjustments. Even customer service used the word "press" instead of "slide" or "push" so I didn't figure out my error after receiving a second remote and during my frustration stumbled on how to manuever by accident! ;)

Joe

Just got my XBR960 today while I was at work. When I got home I was relieved to see that it was in fact the "N" model. I also checked for the manufacture date on back of the Tv which was February 2006. Sucks though cuz I still don't got a stand for it yet. So It's just sitting in the kitchen floor for now, lol. My first impression of this set compared to that of the 30xs955(returned to crutchfield) is that the 960 has a much cooler remote It looks really nice. I still couldn't understand why the xs955 remotes are so ugly looks like sony only spent about a dollar to make em. But that probly doesn't matter to some people since they upgrade to much better remotes anyways. And, the 4 extra inches makes such a huge difference I really underestimated the difference before. All in all I think it was a blessing(so to speak) that my 30xs955 had some very severe ghosting issues and I got another chance to pick a 960. I'll add some more later when I actually get it set up, hehe.

How many other TV owners can say they have a two-story remote?

Watching movies like Sin City it seems as though there is a bit of ghosting on my 960N.... basically any movie where theere is a near black background and a light moving foreground.

Is this normal?

I'm normally in lurk mode here, but I need to ask: Is there anywhere that the massive amount of 960 information in this thread has been compiled or organized?

There is so much great stuff here, but it can be daunting to find it.

It almost seems like the 960 should have a subforum of its own, instead of just a thread... one with a great big FAQ stickied at the top. :)

Thanks, by the way, for all the great info!

Watching movies like Sin City it seems as though there is a bit of ghosting on my 960N.... basically any movie where theere is a near black background and a light moving foreground.

Is this normal?

If you are refering to a white object streaking across a black screen and leaving a "trail" of phosphors behind it, it has been mentioned several times in this thread. Use the "Search this thread" feature above, and search for terms such as "ghosting", "trailing", "streaking" and "phosphors" and you should be able to be able to get a quick summary.

As to whether it is normal... that is the $64,000.00 question. Several posters, whose opinions I respect, have posted that this categoricly does not occur on their sets. This leads me to believe that it is not normal... and may be a cause of individal set flaw, bad combination of components, settings or all of the above.

Now that I've read those posts.... is there anyone that has ever got this "fixed?"

I've found several cases in this thread... they all say they'll report back when so-and-so happens.... and then there aren't any more posts.

If I can't get it fixed, I suppose I can live with it. It is distracting though.

Now that I've read those posts.... is there anyone that has ever got this "fixed?"

I've found several cases in this thread... they all say they'll report back when so-and-so happens.... and then there aren't any more posts.

If I can't get it fixed, I suppose I can live with it. It is distracting though.

Hrm I havent noticed this on my 960N (yet), You mentioned it happens in the movie Sin City , I have this dvd if you can tell me a specific scene to look for Ill check it out.

I've never noticed this trailing on my 960 but I haven't been looking for it I guess. I love HD on this set. Mine manuf June 2005.

Never seen any trailing here whatsoever, even before my ISF job.

Hrm I havent noticed this on my 960N (yet), You mentioned it happens in the movie SIN , I have this dvd if you can tell me a specific scene to look for Ill check it out.

Yep, It's most noticeable in Sin City.

From what I remember, in the beginning when Bruce Willis is going to rescue young Nancy... there's a scene where he knocks two thugs out with a crowbar (they're standing next to a corvette they stole and talking about it) or some kind of pipe. Right before he does this he's standing against a wall... and you can notice the trailing coming from his (white) head as it moves back and forth slightly against the dark background.

There's tons of examples in that movie... but that's one I can think of that's pretty close to the beginning while sitting here at work.

Sin City is probably the easiest DVD to use to see this effect... since it has lots of bright white objects moving against near black backgrounds.

Now that I've read those posts.... is there anyone that has ever got this "fixed?"

I've found several cases in this thread... they all say they'll report back when so-and-so happens.... and then there aren't any more posts.

If I can't get it fixed, I suppose I can live with it. It is distracting though.

On those several cases who never reported back: It might be worth while for you to PM each of them asking if they were able to have their sets fixed.

I'm normally in lurk mode here, but I need to ask: Is there anywhere that the massive amount of 960 information in this thread has been compiled or organized?

There is so much great stuff here, but it can be daunting to find it.

It almost seems like the 960 should have a subforum of its own, instead of just a thread... one with a great big FAQ stickied at the top. :)

Thanks, by the way, for all the great info!
If this exists I'm unaware of it. Even though wading through the long threads can be trying, I get so much more out of reading all the posts, questions, answers, off-topic stuff - everything. There's just something intangible there that I don't pick-up from just facts.

If this exists I'm unaware of it. Even though wading through the long threads can be trying, I get so much more out of reading all the posts, questions, answers, off-topic stuff - everything. There's just something intangible there that I don't pick-up from just facts.

CTRL F really helps in a lot of these threads as well. KenTech's thread being the best example. :eek:

Yep, It's most noticeable in Sin City.

From what I remember, in the beginning when Bruce Willis is going to rescue young Nancy... there's a scene where he knocks two thugs out with a crowbar (they're standing next to a corvette they stole and talking about it) or some kind of pipe. Right before he does this he's standing against a wall... and you can notice the trailing coming from his (white) head as it moves back and forth slightly against the dark background.

There's tons of examples in that movie... but that's one I can think of that's pretty close to the beginning while sitting here at work.

Sin City is probably the easiest DVD to use to see this effect... since it has lots of bright white objects moving against near black backgrounds.

Hrm I think I see what you're reffering to ,a very brief ghosting of white against a black backround , but its very subtle and I have to really look for it to notice , I didnt see it at all on the scene with Willis against the wall , But during the scene (alittle over 12 minutes into the movie) when willis gets shot for the 2nd time on the Dock and he says "I finally sit down like he told me to" , the next scene shows the girl kneel down in front of him, I could see a very brief trail coming from the top of her head as she kneeled.

Yeah... the more I read in this thread the more I start to think it's like the rainbow effect on DLP's. Some see it some don't, but it's inherent to the set regardless.

I watch my TV in a completely dark room, and this seems to make it more noticeable (the TV has been calibrated using Avia so it's not as if I have funky settings causing it.... it's all set up using Pro, Monitor, Cinemotion, etc.) if you want to see it easily you can turn off the lights before you look for it.... but I warn you. Once you start seeing it you can't stop....

Question:

Has anyone figured out a homemade way of fixing the "cold tuner problem" the 960 was faced with? I have that problem on occasion, but it would be pretty difficult to have it fixed "professionally". Since I'm in Canada, I would have to take the TV to the States (I'm currently in the second year of the two-year U.S. warranty), leave it there, then go back again to pick it up. Plus, I'm now worried that they might decide to exchange it for a 970, which lacks the firewire ports I use every day.

Anyone know how to fix the cold tuner problem on their own?

Has anyone figured out a homemade way of fixing the "cold tuner problem" the 960 was faced with?
Is that where all the digital channels show "No Signal" after you first turn it on? I'm plagued with that problem, too, and would love to hear of a solution. The shop has already swapped out the Q-Box to no avail. I even had them swap out the unit for another, but that one had the same problem. To make matters worse, the shop can't reproduce the problem on either unit. They did apply some Sony-recommended patch to the signal board, but I wasn't able to get any details about it from the tech, nor did it help.

Any suggestions for what to do, besides continuing to pester the shop and Sony about it? I have a sinking feeling that's going to be a lost cause. The head tech at the shop is currently inclined to blame it on everything from an old antenna and lead to a conspiracy by broadcasters to force people to pay for digital content.

i have noticed the "ghosting" issue with my set. although i read about it and how it was normal as the phosphors decay much slower than they activate. so i was looking for it as soon as i got my set. i only really see it like when credits are rolling. it is also noticeable in scenes where the camera is focused closely on something light against a darker background. i can't really see any streaking, but it seems like it's difficult to focus on the image. i noticed this yesterday in gladiator when the camera was zoomed in on the horses moving into formation in the opening battle scene. it was hard to focus on the horses but once the camera panned out a bit it was fine.

so yeah, you can only really see it if you look for it. i decided before i bought it that it wasn't a big enough deal to prevent me from getting the set.

I was checking out the Index feature today and only my NTSC channels were showing up in the preview panes. The manual says that digital sources will not show up in the preview panes (p, 57). So OTA HDTV channels won't be in the preview pane but NTSC channels will?

As far as the white on black streaking (mentioned by mathestar and stinky-d's), I have noticed this too on my XBR 960. Most noticeably on LOST episodes where it is night time and a persons face moves quickly across the screen. Also as movie credits roll, they seem to leave a faint white streak behind. I still am not sure if this is truly a screen effect or if it is my eyes trying to adjust from light to dark. I have not calibrated with Avia, or DVE, let alone ISF, but I hope that any of these will lessen or eliminate this effect.

Like the others, I hope to learn more about others experiences with this!

I have calibrated with Avia... and have done a few other slight tweaks based on recommendations in this thread.

I can tell you one thing, it's not going away regardless of what settings you change.

I don't think it's a defect particular to my (or your) set based on all the reading about it I've done, I think it's the technology in general. I wish I had a pair of eyeballs that didn't notice it so easily.

Watching movies like Sin City it seems as though there is a bit of ghosting on my 960N.... basically any movie where theere is a near black background and a light moving foreground.

Is this normal?
I saw the first half hour or so of "Sin City" a week ago on HD but did not notice any ghosting (wasn't looking for it, of course). The film is still appearing on one of the premium movie channels so it would be good to catch it on HD to see if the ghosting appears in the same spot. If not, it could be due to the motion problems still occuring on some DVDs or DVD players. Have you noticed ghosting during end credits on films shown in HD?

only sources I have ever seen ghosting on, is SD from DirecTV, or my mpeg compression recorded DirecTV shows from my PC

I have yet to see any from any high quality production DVD or any HDTV ghost
and then its only when light objects move across dark backgrounds with the above sources

the most noticable for me, is my recordings of BSG, SciFi is known to be overcompressed by every provider and then you have to zoom the picture to fill the screen and its been analogue captured and compressed to mpeg2

clearly not a great source, but I refuse to miss the show

clearly I should just buy the DVDs in this case

Have you noticed ghosting during end credits on films shown in HD?

I see it in everything, even HD broadcasts.

Noticed it when watching 24 yesterday for example, I notice it when watching Lost, I notice it when watching broadcast HD movies, etc.

I'd love to look at a set that supposedly doesn't suffer from it, just to see if it's a defect in mine (and the others that are reporting it.) After reading reports in this thread of someone getting their first set fixed repeatedly and then replacing the set several times just to see if it would improve (and it didn't) I think I'll skip the hassle. I think it has to do with differences in our eyes more than differences in our sets.

I've read about it happening on past Sony HD CRT sets as well as sets from other brands (Panasonic, etc.)

In the end it's a complaint I can learn to live with on a long list of compliments.

AMD:

Yes it is that issue. I find it particularly annoying since it makes it extremely more difficult to set-up a program to record in HD to D-VHS while I'm away. I can set the TV to turn on to a certain channel at a certain time, as well as set my remote to tell the VCR to record at the same time, but if the tuner isn't warmed up, I might be recording for the show's entire length with no signal. With the tuner problem, someone has to be there to turn the TV off and on before recording (and even that can take a few tries).

Once again, anyone have a fix for the cold tuner problem?

I'm 2 hours into my 4 hour delivery window on this set. The wait is killing me...

Wahoo! It's here!

It's pretty obvious that my TV has been in an unheated warehouse and is pretty cold to the touch. Should I wait a while before turning it on, so it can get to room temperature?

Wahoo! It's here!

It's pretty obvious that my TV has been in an unheated warehouse and is pretty cold to the touch. Should I wait a while before turning it on, so it can get to room temperature?
I wouldn't wait much more than an hour if that much.

Turn that baby on and get happy!

Cheers! ;)

I was checking out the Index feature today and only my NTSC channels were showing up in the preview panes. The manual says that digital sources will not show up in the preview panes (p, 57). So OTA HDTV channels won't be in the preview pane but NTSC channels will?

That's right. Once the digital conversion is finished, goodby PIP and index. (Unless you have analog cable, I suppose.)


Mark

Has anyone figured out a homemade way of fixing the "cold tuner problem" the 960 was faced with? I have that problem on occasion, but it would be pretty difficult to have it fixed "professionally". Since I'm in Canada, I would have to take the TV to the States (I'm currently in the second year of the two-year U.S. warranty), leave it there, then go back again to pick it up. Plus, I'm now worried that they might decide to exchange it for a 970, which lacks the firewire ports I use every day.

Anyone know how to fix the cold tuner problem on their own?


Is that where all the digital channels show "No Signal" after you first turn it on? I'm plagued with that problem, too, and would love to hear of a solution. The shop has already swapped out the Q-Box to no avail. I even had them swap out the unit for another, but that one had the same problem. To make matters worse, the shop can't reproduce the problem on either unit. They did apply some Sony-recommended patch to the signal board, but I wasn't able to get any details about it from the tech, nor did it help.

Any suggestions for what to do, besides continuing to pester the shop and Sony about it? I have a sinking feeling that's going to be a lost cause. The head tech at the shop is currently inclined to blame it on everything from an old antenna and lead to a conspiracy by broadcasters to force people to pay for digital content.

Not sure what this problem is, but apparently it goes away after some warm-up period.

Well, the TV's not working properly. I would continue pursuing the repair. If the problem won't show up in the shop, I would take pictures--or perhaps videos--of the problem, so it's documented. And I would continue to escalate it until I got resolution.

IMHO, some "problems" discussed here and elsewhere are really picking nits. But your problems sound real, and you should not put up with this flaw.

Mark

My replacement XBR960N arrived from Crutchfield today and am pleased to discover not only is the flickering gone in 1080i/720p but this one does NOT bloom nearly as easily!! The one thing that bugged me most about my previous TV is no longer a problem , I wasn't expecting it to be any better with the replacement so this was a pleasant surprise , in fact even with the default Vivid mode the max contrast setting hardly blooms at all, my previous 960N would start blooming with the picture setting above 30 on Standard mode (white text became blurry etc.) so I was forced to always run darker settings (No wonder Xbox 360 looked so lackluster!)

Also the black levels on this one are noticeably better, I'm able to run my Xbox 360 @ Standard mode / Picture 41 / Brightness 43 and the black levels are still excellent , the overall picture is more vibrant & crisp due to lack of blooming.

I have a feeling my original tv had been returned before, the replacement had the tv's power cord neatly tied and connected to the back of the tv, my original did not, also this replacement had a noticeable 'electronics smell' for the first 20-30 minutes it was powered on ,my original did not do this at all.

I ran the long auto program cycle and it picked up all my usual analog & digital cable stations so the tuner appears to be in working order (seems to be a common complaint in this thread).

The only small negative I've noticed is that the geometry isnt as straight on the replacement ,the original would start to 'bow' in the upper right and lower right corners but otherwise was very straight, the replacement has this geometry bowing in all 4 corners but its not that bad at all.

Anyhow Im now officially a very happy XBR960N owner :)

How easy to notice was your flickering in 1080i?

When you would be watching a movie what part would you notice flickering in?

has this tv been discontinued?

How easy to notice was your flickering in 1080i?

When you would be watching a movie what part would you notice flickering in?

I could pretty much see it on any 1080i material but it was most easily seen by looking at a solid grey backround , I even saw it on the grey backround of the Memory Stick screen, but a darker grey would reveal it even better, Before the Sony tech came out I loaded a solid dark grey backround on my Xbox 360 so he could easily see it, He also hooked up his own image generator and was able to see it with a grey scale pattern.

Its hard to explain but it looked like some type of interference pattern rapidly sweeping through the screen. This wasnt the same type of flicker you see on text with 1080i / 60hz refresh etc.

I see it in everything, even HD broadcasts.

Noticed it when watching 24 yesterday for example, I notice it when watching Lost, I notice it when watching broadcast HD movies, etc.

I'd love to look at a set that supposedly doesn't suffer from it, just to see if it's a defect in mine (and the others that are reporting it.) After reading reports in this thread of someone getting their first set fixed repeatedly and then replacing the set several times just to see if it would improve (and it didn't) I think I'll skip the hassle. I think it has to do with differences in our eyes more than differences in our sets.

I've read about it happening on past Sony HD CRT sets as well as sets from other brands (Panasonic, etc.)

In the end it's a complaint I can learn to live with on a long list of compliments.


I am assuming that this effect is being caused by the phosphor coating being energized by a bright white beam, and as this area of the screen goes again immediately to black or some other dark color, the phosphors do not instantly de-energize but have a brief (but noticeable to some like us) fade out period.

Is this a simple explanation for this effect, and ultimately one of the flaws of CRT technology? What do you think, Stinky D and Mathesar?

That's right. Once the digital conversion is finished, goodby PIP and index. (Unless you have analog cable, I suppose.)


Mark

Figures they'd screw us like that. One of the few HDTV sets to have PIP and the PIP will be all but worthless in two years. That's been one of the reasons I was reluctant to get into HD. The sets are being built with too many NTSC features. Good business plan for built-in obsolescence, but not so good for customers who'd like these expensive sets to still be fully capable after February, 2009.

you will still be able to use composite, svideo, and component at 480i

analogue is not going away just because there will be no over the air analogue TV

you will still be able to use composite, svideo, and component at 480i

analogue is not going away just because there will be no over the air analogue TV

Right, but the picture in picture will not show digital channels on the right side. Once the analog OTA channels are gone. your right PIP will only be good for your Video 1-4 inputs and the index won't be any good, either.

has this tv been discontinued?


anyone? i am unable to find it on the sony webstie or in their store... is a replacement coming out? is there a store selling these models for a good price now?

anyone? i am unable to find it on the sony webstie or in their store... is a replacement coming out? is there a store selling these models for a good price now?

In a word, yes. Check the most recent 4 pages of this thread for details on dwindling supliers, etc. Also keep on eye on the CRT home page as several members have posted when they see a retailer that still has it. Quite a few will advise... stick with an authorized dealer, and avoid refurbs. IMO this is excellent advice.

As far a replacement, there is the 970. General consensus is that this is a replacement and not a successor. In a nutshell, suspected decrease in quality (based on specs), decrease in features and lower price. Again, this has been discussed ad nauseum in this thread and others in the CRT forum (search for "970" or "super fine pitch tube" for a wealth of info from the past few months.

Good luck in finding a 960, if that is what you choose. :)

^thx... bummer to hear that... sony not seeing the sales they want? sounds stupid to discontineu the best tv they make?

I'm still learning how to use my new 960N (I've had it for 6 days now). One thing I have noticed is the "delay" from the time I turn it "on" til the time the picture appears on the screen. I've timed it several times and it always takes 11 to 12 seconds from the time I push "on" til the TV actually comes on. I read the Owner's Manual and didn't see anything pertaining to this. Is this normal for this particular TV or is it a malfunction? Should I be concerned or not? Thanks.

I'm still learning how to use my new 960N (I've had it for 6 days now). One thing I have noticed is the "delay" from the time I turn it "on" til the time the picture appears on the screen. I've timed it several times and it always takes 11 to 12 seconds from the time I push "on" til the TV actually comes on. I read the Owner's Manual and didn't see anything pertaining to this. Is this normal for this particular TV or is it a malfunction? Should I be concerned or not? Thanks.

Yep this is normal , My original took that long and so does the replacement I recieved yesterday, the sound doesnt come on until just before the picture is displayed as well.

Well, it does take a few seconds to boot up Linux when you turn the set on. :)

Not sure what this problem is, but apparently it goes away after some warm-up period.

Well, the TV's not working properly. I would continue pursuing the repair. If the problem won't show up in the shop, I would take pictures--or perhaps videos--of the problem, so it's documented. And I would continue to escalate it until I got resolution.
A very brief warm-up period in my case. Most of the time, power-cycling the set within a few seconds clears up the problem.

Thanks for the advice. I kind of figured that persistence was going to be the way to get this resolved. Back to the phones.

Does anyone know the specific cause of this "cold tuner" problem? Swapping out the Q-Box is the standard fix, but that's a lot of circuitry. More specific information might at least help me figure out what part of my environment tickles the bug and help the shop reproduce it.

Is that where all the digital channels show "No Signal" after you first turn it on? I'm plagued with that problem, too, and would love to hear of a solution. The shop has already swapped out the Q-Box to no avail. I even had them swap out the unit for another, but that one had the same problem. To make matters worse, the shop can't reproduce the problem on either unit. They did apply some Sony-recommended patch to the signal board, but I wasn't able to get any details about it from the tech, nor did it help.

Any suggestions for what to do, besides continuing to pester the shop and Sony about it? I have a sinking feeling that's going to be a lost cause. The head tech at the shop is currently inclined to blame it on everything from an old antenna and lead to a conspiracy by broadcasters to force people to pay for digital content.

What I've noticed is that some of those "no signal" channels will display certain programs during certain times. Dont know if thats the design of the TV or the actual channels themselves

Try your cable box. My HD DVR has a stetch setting for watching 4x3 material broadcast on a HD station. The stretch is proportional (unlike the 960's wide stretch used for digital stations) but at least it eliminates the black bars without cutting off too much on the edges.

Thanks for the info. I have a Motorola box from Comcast and it does have a stretch menu for 4:3 content. But now I have another question. Right now I am using component cables to hook it up to the TV(until I get an HDMI cord), I see an option in the menu for YPbPr Output and it gives me the option of 1080i, 720p, 480p and 480i. I assume it would be best for me to go 1080i for this type of TV, or would 720p be better?

Thanks for the info. I have a Motorola box from Comcast and it does have a stretch menu for 4:3 content. But now I have another question. Right now I am using component cables to hook it up to the TV(until I get an HDMI cord), I see an option in the menu for YPbPr Output and it gives me the option of 1080i, 720p, 480p and 480i. I assume it would be best for me to go 1080i for this type of TV, or would 720p be better?

the bets option is pass thru the broadcasted signal unscaled, otherwise use 1080i

I'm still learning how to use my new 960N (I've had it for 6 days now). One thing I have noticed is the "delay" from the time I turn it "on" til the time the picture appears on the screen. I've timed it several times and it always takes 11 to 12 seconds from the time I push "on" til the TV actually comes on. I read the Owner's Manual and didn't see anything pertaining to this. Is this normal for this particular TV or is it a malfunction? Should I be concerned or not? Thanks.

The manual says that is part an automatic degaussing process

Odd thing happened this morning when I turned on my 960, Im familiar with the degaussing sound on powerup but has anyone experienced a loud "pop" accompanied by a white flash on the screen? It did this not even 1 second after I hit the power button to turn it on, the tv powered up normaly and is working fine but ive never experienced this with any tv's before.

I had this happen once as well. Sometime about the second or so week I owned it. Never happened again and it has been more than a year...

I had this happen once as well. Sometime about the second or so week I owned it. Never happened again and it has been more than a year...

Well that's sort of a relief , Ive only had it 2 days so hopefully it doesn't become a problem as I'm very happy with the picture on this replacement, I was able to correct (for the most part) a pretty noticeable convergence error in the lower left via service menu yesterday and now everything is looking good, Thanks for the reply.

What I've noticed is that some of those "no signal" channels will display certain programs during certain times. Dont know if thats the design of the TV or the actual channels themselves


If you are using OTA insure that your antenna direction is right on, because sometimes it has to be in the exact position or the NO Signal will appear depending on distance to source of HD transmitter.

I purchased a 960 from ABT and received it a couple of days ago. It has an out of the box problem. The right side of the screen has a magenta blotch which gives a color cast to any light toned subject matter. It extends about 6" in from the right edge and extends down about 11" from the top edge of the screen. It is not caused by any sort of magnetic interference from a speaker or electronic component. It is always there and does not vary. I checked the Landing section of the service menu but was not able to ameliorate the problem. Interestingly, the RT adjustment had, apparently, already been adjusted to decrease this effect as much as possible. I think I'm going to have to contact Sony about repairing this. My question is does anyone know how Sony's tech support works. Can I choose a repair person or do they send someone of their own choosing. Obviously I'm hoping to find someone as knowledgable and helpful as I can.

Mongoose, did you try both RT and RB in the landing to adjust? Keep using the tv normally and you may see it improve with several degausses and adjustment in the landing category.

You have a couple ways to work with Sony support. Call the automated line or check online and you will most likely find several around your area that will service the tv. Call those to check if they do and will come out, etc. Example, I was given 3, one will only come out and haul away my tv, another will only service IF I bring it in. So I was really left with 1, who stunk. I had a particular servicer in mind and confirmed with them and Sony to find they will come out and service no problems. If you call Sony and speak with someone, they will log your issue with an event id and they will help you go from there.

Mapson, thanks for the response. Yes I did try RB as well. I was wondering if anyone in my area (Berkeley, CA) have any Sony support people to recommend. Thanks in advance.

I purchased a 960 from ABT and received it a couple of days ago. It has an out of the box problem. The right side of the screen has a magenta blotch which gives a color cast to any light toned subject matter. It extends about 6" in from the right edge and extends down about 11" from the top edge of the screen. It is not caused by any sort of magnetic interference from a speaker or electronic component.

Sounds like the shielding from one of the internal speakers came loose.

John you may be right. There is a small (1") crack in the corner of the plastic cabinet at the right top corner of the screen frame face. The white glove folks that Pegasus shipping sent to deliver this tv were surprisingly slight. They struggled mightily to wrestle this display up two flights of steps, finally carrying it face down the last half flight. I didn't notice the crack until after they'd left. Does anyone know if this speaker shield is easily acessable?

John you may be right. There is a small (1") crack in the corner of the plastic cabinet at the right top corner of the screen frame face. The white glove folks that Pegasus shipping sent to deliver this tv were surprisingly slight. They struggled mightily to wrestle this display up two flights of steps, finally carrying it face down the last half flight. I didn't notice the crack until after they'd left. Does anyone know if this speaker shield is easily acessable?
Mongoose,

Sorry to hear of the problems with your new 960.

Since you received a physically damaged set you could be automaticly entitled to a replacement. If you would rather have the speaker shield (or whatever is actually causing the color distortion) fixed then don't try to access any internal part yourself - this could void the two-year warranty.

Hope everything gets resolved real quickly!

I had this happen once as well. Sometime about the second or so week I owned it. Never happened again and it has been more than a year...

Happened to me yesterday in the sixth day of operation. No problems noticed.

If you are using OTA insure that your antenna direction is right on, because sometimes it has to be in the exact position or the NO Signal will appear depending on distance to source of HD transmitter.

I agree. I've had my set a week, using the Terk equivalent of the Silver Sensor indoors. My local ABC affliate's signal comes in pretty well as long as I'm pointed in the general direction of the tower, but I have to be dead on one way for my CBS signal and dead on another for Fox and NBC.

I was in a Best Buy store today and they still have the XBR960s. Price after discount or rebate is $1699. If you want one, you may just have to call the stores in your area rather than going through BB online.

I can attest to the fact that BB still has these (I got mine from them last weekend... an XBR960 (still - May'05) Ask to speak with the manager (like I did) -as they can probably do a little better on price than what's advertised in the store (take my word for it :-) Don't be afraid to be a little pushy either... they won't be selling these to their usual customers when the price they are asking makes getting some of the other lower-end, yet larger non-CRT displays a real value. If only everyone knew how good this set really is...

Just got my 960N from ABT today . The PQ is perfect but I noticed that there are 4 missing screws, 1 on the left top and 3 on the left side of the tv. I don't know if I will return the TV or not. What do you think guys? Your comments/advise will be highly appreciated...thanks

Just got my 960N from ABT today . The PQ is perfect but I noticed that there are 4 missing screws, 1 on the left top and 3 on the left side of the tv. I don't know if I will return the TV or not. What do you think guys? Your comments/advise will be highly appreciated...thanks

I'd report it so they can't use it against you if you need to press a warranty claim

Just got my 960N from ABT today . The PQ is perfect but I noticed that there are 4 missing screws, 1 on the left top and 3 on the left side of the tv. I don't know if I will return the TV or not. What do you think guys? Your comments/advise will be highly appreciated...thanks


There should only be screws where an arrow shows => pointing to the hole. If missing I'd return or get Sony to come out and check. Kind of shoddy workmanship as there are not too many screws in the total case.

How worried should I be about cat hair getting inside my set? I've had my 960 for almost 3 days now and the only ones who use my set more than I do are my cats. They love sitting on top of it, especially when it's turned on. Is cat hair likely to be more problematic than dust?

How worried should I be about cat hair getting inside my set? I've had my 960 for almost 3 days now and the only ones who use my set more than I do are my cats. They love sitting on top of it, especially when it's turned on. Is cat hair likely to be more problematic than dust?

Cat hair might be the least of your problems, what if one of them decides to scent mark this new territory. Cat Urine causes Cat-Ass-Trophy. Electronics short out, fry the TV and the cats. Seems like there should be a less risky way for you to have some warm pussy. :D

Thanks Greenland! I laughed so hard I sprayed my breakfast all over my desk!!!!

Thanks Greenland! I laughed so hard I sprayed my breakfast all over my desk!!!!

Your very welcome mate. A spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down. He would not get this quality of lifestyle guidance from any of your Oprah types.

Cat hair might be the least of your problems, what if one of them decides to scent mark this new territory. Cat Urine causes Cat-Ass-Trophy. Electronics short out, fry the TV and the cats. Seems like there should be a less risky way for you to have some warm pussy. :D


http://www.orlyowl.com/lolowl.jpg

For those of you still looking to pick up a 34XBR960, check out Fry's Electronics. Might be able to get one heck of a deal on close out.

(For practical reasons, looks like my GDM-F520 will be my last tube. Alas...)

I just got Adelphia's HD service....

The dude said that I should never watch 4:3 material with the black bars on the left and right, he said he's seen several of these burn in. All my settings are optimized (so it's in pro and yada yada yada) but he said adjusting the contrast and such doesn't affect whether the TV will suffer from burn in.

He also said that my TV "accepts" 720p but does not scale it to 1080i. He said there was no difference between accepts and displays. I just nodded my head and figured I'd wait to ask more knowledagble people.

Am I just out of my mind or is he completely wrong? I don't want to burn anything into my TV...

your salesman was wrong on all accounts

Does anyone know if the tv supports the HDCP copyright protection over the HDMI? thanks.

Yes, it does.

Does anyone know if the tv supports the HDCP copyright protection over the HDMI? thanks.

all HDMI inputs support HDCP.

Cool, i just picked up a brand new one tonight from bestbuy in the minnesota area. I love it. How do you tell if it is showing 1080i? I do see faint purple discoloration on the sides of mine too like someone else was talking about and widescreen movies seem to bow a little bit at the ends but i see others saying there are ways to fix that convergence issue through the service mode, ill have to look into that.

hit the display button, it will say what the resolution of the source is

FYI: I was in one of the two Best Buy's in Tucson yesterday and they still had new 960's available at a discounted price and one open box 960 for even less, they also had one new Sony unopened stand for the 960 available at a big discount if anyone in Southern Arizona is looking.

Well i cant say the "price" on here but i got it for lower than MSRP and i basically made a deal and got it for a hundred less than they were asking, they were more than eager to help.

Would anyone care to share their settings after calibration with the avia disk? I know everyone sets the setting to pro but what about the other settings? I am confused as to what is it displaying and kny3twalker you said to hit the display button and i did and it just says input 5 on the top left and on the bottom it says full for full mode. I know in the set up it gives me three options, it has interlaced, progressive and cinemotion. I set mine on cinemotion for dvd player is that right? I have a high end sony player that is non progressive from a few years back its the dvpn7700 or something like that.

it sounds like you have turned off the info bar

turn it back on the user menu, then you will get the larger display which states what resolution your TV is receiving

also the Sonys converts all inputs to 1080i, but initially 480i will be scaled to 480p or 960i though

How worried should I be about cat hair getting inside my set? I've had my 960 for almost 3 days now and the only ones who use my set more than I do are my cats. They love sitting on top of it, especially when it's turned on. Is cat hair likely to be more problematic than dust?

Mine do the same thing. Not worried about them urinating, but the hair as well. I put a small towel over the top and left the sides open for ventilation. This is a temp fix, as I will probably get some speaker cloth, as it is nice and thin. Will keep the hair out, but let it vent.

Kellen

If you find one of these glorious sets at best buy, they will deal. January I picked one up for 1199 w/ no interest until 2009. Price was 1299 after match and then they had a 100 off if you signed up for cable.

Took me talking to 4 different people before someone would do both the cable discount and price match, but it was worth it.

When I was there in Jan, the NW warehouse had 50 or more of the 960s (not the 960N).

As for using this TV w/ a computer, I am using my new Mac Mini Dual Core right now and it is fantastic.

Mine do the same thing. Not worried about them urinating, but the hair as well. I put a small towel over the top and left the sides open for ventilation. This is a temp fix, as I will probably get some speaker cloth, as it is nice and thin. Will keep the hair out, but let it vent.

Kellen

Speaker cloth seems like a good solution. Thanks for the suggestion.

Kellen - Where were you when I needed a receipt for price matching when buying my XBR960 from BB here in Baltimore, MD last week? Didn't get them as low as you did, but I did alright. It did take some work on the manager though....

I can send you a copy of my receipt if you think they will lower it more. 30 day return policy and all. I still can't believe the kid did it. I dropped my girlfriend off to get a haircut and stopped by bestbuy. Around here in Seattle, they don't have the XBR960 in stock, only in the warehouses, but I asked the kid, expecting a no. He said he had two in the back for 1899 each.

I then mentioned video only (great store around here, reallllllly cheap, but when they let things go cheap, they never have it in stock) had the 960 for only 1349, new in box and they would pay the sales tax! I waited a day after looking at it, then it was gone when I came back. Best buy kid said he would match it, but not the sales tax. I asked about beating it by ten percent of the difference. He agreed (down to 1284). Then I asked about the Comcast cable sign up (100 off a tv over 1000), he said not on price matches. I took a chance and asked him to try it anyway, something along the lines of isn't comcast giving you the money for signin us up, so its their money. It didn't work. Then I asked him to dock the tv for 100, because I did have to sign up to see if the cable rebate would work. He reluctantly did (1184 + tax, around 1290).

The whole time I was expecting someone to come over and try to stop the thing. Luckily he was a manager at the ripe age of 20 something, so he didn't have to get some upper approval, who I am sure would have squashed the deal. I had previously went to 3 bestbuys and Circuit City and the best was they would match 1349, but I would still have to pay the tax.

The look on my girlfriends face when she realized what was in the back was great. Now trying to get it to my 3rd floor apt, that was interesting. Seems like the TV is only the beginning, since then I have added 6.1 surround, hd upconverting dvd player, hd cable w/ dvr and a MacMini (recording HD content when dvr is full, threads here have been quite helpful).

Today I just called the nearest Sony store and they just got rid of their last refurbished 960 for only 899. I thought I got a good deal, 899! I wish. I was hoping they had more. Amazon has one seller left at 1599 for a new one.

Good luck to all trying to find one.

Kellen

The xbr960 i just recieved also is not an N model either but it was new. They used it for a picture shoot in one of their past flyers but it was never used and it definately seemed new. They were selling their open box for 1529.00 but i said i wanted to get out of the store at 1500.00 even so they lowered their asking price and i saved about 120.00 from what they wanted.

Hi,

A friend and I, feeling pressed to the wall about the demise of the Kd-34xbr960, went to the Fry's near Burbank, CA and each bought one. They were the models with an "n" at the end of the model number. I think there are a couple left.

Here is my very brief report before some longer comments in the near future. I am a documentary editor in Los Angeles and wanted a set that could double as both a living room HDTV and a halfway-good professional monitor for editing HD on a Final Cut Pro system. I think it fits the bill. Here are a few comments:

1) My friend and I have both done the full consumer-level menu set-ups. Going out of Vivid mode, using Cinemotion with DVD, ect, ect. As reported many times on this forum, this first step makes a huge difference. Because I feel like the blacks are still a little "crushed" and there are some red halos around white text in the corners, I will either take the time to learn the Sony Service Menu or hire an ISF calibrator guy.

2) Once basically set up, the set produced the best HDTV picture I have seen outside of Star Wars Episode 3. I am watching Over The Air HD in Los Angeles. "West Wing" on NBC looked stunning.

3) I have never seen a DVD look better than on this set -- even with just a cheap DVD player using cheap component cables. Using the Progressive Cinemotion setting and carefully adjusting Brightness and Picture, and telling the player that it should be in 16x9 mode, produced the best Standard Def DVD image I have ever seen.

4) Even after using all of the consumer-level adjustments I could, I found my S-video connected DirecTV picture to be sub-par. It is just too much to expect such a compressed and abused SD signal to go on an HD screen. Posters here on this forum who claimed that Standard Def signals (other than DVDs), whether from Digital Broadcasts, or satellite translate well to this Sony set are just not telling the truth. My 12 year old Sony XBR kicks the ass of the 960 up and down the street when displaying DirecTV. There just isnt a debate to be had about this.

5) On the whole this television is incredible and I am thrilled to be a part of the enthusiastic community around it.

-Christopher Johnson

...It is just too much to expect such a compressed and abused SD signal to go on an HD screen. Posters here on this forum who claimed that Standard Def signals (other than DVDs), whether from Digital Broadcasts, or satellite translate well to this Sony set are just not telling the truth. My 12 year old Sony XBR kicks the ass of the 960 up and down the street when displaying DirecTV. There just isnt a debate to be had about this....

-Christopher Johnson
This is simply just not true. I have never seen analog and digital cable as good as it is on my 34" Sony set. And my previous sets produce excellent picture quality. If you get and properly use Avia or DVE, you can get "SD" picture quality as good as on any analog tv.

I agree with justsc.

If you are a DirecTV customer, perhaps you just do not realize quite how badly they have begun mangling SD channels over the past several years. Dish Network does the same. It's utterly disgusting, and I stopped paying for it over a year ago.

Go read some of the reports from folks lucky enough to have FiOS installed at their house - the SD picture looks as good as a DVD. And that's pretty much how satellite tv used to look back when Dish started up. But they steadily degraded the picture year after year, and many customers just got used to it. Open your eyes.

Hi,



4) Even after using all of the consumer-level adjustments I could, I found my S-video connected DirecTV picture to be sub-par. It is just too much to expect such a compressed and abused SD signal to go on an HD screen. Posters here on this forum who claimed that Standard Def signals (other than DVDs), whether from Digital Broadcasts, or satellite translate well to this Sony set are just not telling the truth. My 12 year old Sony XBR kicks the ass of the 960 up and down the street when displaying DirecTV. There just isnt a debate to be had about this.



Your older sony "kicks the ass of the 960 up and down" because it has inferior picture quality.

I am a documentary editor in Los Angeles and wanted a set that could double as both a living room HDTV and a halfway-good professional monitor for editing HD on a Final Cut Pro system. I think it fits the bill.

if you expect to use this 1080i monitor as a PC monitor, good luck
the Sony scales everything to 1080i so unless you use a really low resolution like 640x480p, you will not be able to read the small blurry text at 1080i, also no matter what you try it will never look like a PC CRT monitor

Hi,

4) Even after using all of the consumer-level adjustments I could, I found my S-video connected DirecTV picture to be sub-par. It is just too much to expect such a compressed and abused SD signal to go on an HD screen. Posters here on this forum who claimed that Standard Def signals (other than DVDs), whether from Digital Broadcasts, or satellite translate well to this Sony set are just not telling the truth. My 12 year old Sony XBR kicks the ass of the 960 up and down the street when displaying DirecTV. There just isnt a debate to be had about this.

-Christopher Johnson

Clearly this set is not for you. Take it back and move on to something you like with SD signals.

I usually stay out of childish discussions where the seemingly trampled manhood of those with low self esteem begets stupid posts....but come on. ChristophersJ said 4 really nice things about our 34XBR's/Corvettes/<insert material object displacer here> and several "owners" have jumped all over him. Why? Who cares, did some one eat your wheaties today?

It's a TV!

Would you say these things to him in person? Get a life, if someone disagrees with you your repsonse is to tell him to take his toys and play elsewhere? You must have skipped kindergarten....

Signed, a happy 34XBR owner who can handle other peoples views...
BB

if you expect to use this 1080i monitor as a PC monitor, good luck
the Sony scales everything to 1080i so unless you use a really low resolution like 640x480p, you will not be able to read the small blurry text at 1080i, also no matter what you try it will never look like a PC CRT monitor

I have been using it as a monitor for over 2 weeks now with no problems. I have a Mac Mini Intel Duo Core hooked up to my XBR via the HDMI (mac has dvi out). The apple has a bunch display configs built in and the 1268 x 760 (if I recall) looks great. Giving the tv a native 1080 is too small and your desktop is huge. There are display config programs that allow you adjust it to a specific setting, but I found one that works right out of the box.

I sit only 7 feet away and don't have a problem reading text and using the computer. There are tricks to it, increasing fonts on webpages and such, but some items you can't and it is still fine.

I have been using it as a monitor for over 2 weeks now with no problems. I have a Mac Mini Intel Duo Core hooked up to my XBR via the HDMI (mac has dvi out). The apple has a bunch display configs built in and the 1268 x 760 (if I recall) looks great. Giving the tv a native 1080 is too small and your desktop is huge. There are display config programs that allow you adjust it to a specific setting, but I found one that works right out of the box.

well I have to disagree the soften image resulted from scaling a 720p input to 1080i looks horrible IMO, not sharp like a PC monitor and the flicker (causes it interlaced) is annoying and gives me a headache

the XBR will not take 1268x760 as input, so I am not really sure what that is

and then there is overscan, and the solution that video card makers have choosen is to scale the viewable desktop to a certain resolution but still send the TV the full HD format, this means there is more scaling going, unless the display is multi-sync or accepts 1:1 mapping like on digital displays, the softer flickery desktop on a CRT is just aweful

I have had mine connected for a year and a half, and its only for MCE (Windows Media Center) I do not surf, or write documents on my TV
I have tried just about every resolution the TV will accept and messed with powerstrip etc...
and there is no way, this is an acceptable solution, I mean you could do the same

There are tricks to it, increasing fonts on webpages and such, but some items you can't and it is still fine.

on a SDTV but it does not change the fact it looks like crap

If you find one of these glorious sets at best buy, they will deal. January I picked one up for 1199 w/ no interest until 2009. Price was 1299 after match and then they had a 100 off if you signed up for cable.

Took me talking to 4 different people before someone would do both the cable discount and price match, but it was worth it.

When I was there in Jan, the NW warehouse had 50 or more of the 960s (not the 960N).

As for using this TV w/ a computer, I am using my new Mac Mini Dual Core right now and it is fantastic.

BestBuy has never shown 960N in their computers so they probably never carried them.

well I have to disagree the soften image resulted from scaling a 720p input to 1080i looks horrible IMO, not sharp like a PC monitor and the flicker (causes it interlaced) is annoying and gives me a headache

the XBR will not take 1268x760 as input, so I am not really sure what that is

and then there is overscan, and the solution that video card makers have choosen is to scale the viewable desktop to a certain resolution but still send the TV the full HD format, this means there is more scaling going, unless the display is multi-sync or accepts 1:1 mapping like on digital displays, the softer flickery desktop on a CRT is just aweful

I have had mine connected for a year and a half, and its only for MCE (Windows Media Center) I do not surf, or write documents on my TV
I have tried just about every resolution the TV will accept and messed with powerstrip etc...
and there is no way, this is an acceptable solution, I mean you could do the same



on a SDTV but it does not change the fact it looks like crap


Just fired up the Mac Mini so I could be sure of the res. The resolution it is putting out is 1280 x 720, 60Hz (NTSC) with colors in the millions. Overscan is left unchecked in the box. There is no flicker at all (looks like a big monitor). It says it is not giving it an interlaced signal, as there is a 1920 x 1080 and a 720x480 that say interlaced, while my res of 1280 x 720 doesn't. If you hop over to the home theater pc section, there are many happy users who have this computer hooked up to their tv, I think one person even started a thread specifically about using this tv. If you would like, I could take a pic of the screen. Also when I hit the display button on the tv, it shows it is getting a 720p signal (yeah I know it only displays 1080i).

To each their own.

Kellen

Wow, I am surprised at some of the aggressive replies and some of the misplaced assumptions in them. My intent was to deliver a short and honest overview of my likes and dislikes about the 960. I didn't realize that this was a forum for praise only (and I dished out so much praise too). What part of "this television is incredible and I am thrilled to be a part of the enthusiastic community around it" didn't translate?

I'll take a moment to clarify a few points and leave it be.

First of all I would like to soften my words about other posters not telling the truth about SD performance on the 960. Clearly this is a matter that IS up for debate (for which I am open to) and not a closed case as I made it seem. It appears to be one of the more subjective topics here with many people on either side. I guess it comes down to a matter of taste. I now realize that there are more than a few others who see it differently. Cool.

I will re-word it this way:

For my personal taste, HD and SD DVDs are stunning on this set. I love it. I dont think there is anything better I could have gotten. However, even after careful adjustments of the consumer-level menus, I found SD pictures from DirecTV and digital OTA to be:

A) Softer/Muddier
B) strange interlace aliasing and buzzing
C) reduced and smeared colors, lack of depth
D) much more point-of-source digital compression artifacts like macro-blocking and mosquito noise. ( it is present on the old analog Sony as well, but the quality of the 960 reveals more garbage)

Please understand, I don't think this is the fault of the Sony set at all, but rather, the inherent limitations of the originating signal blown up to 1080 lines. Its like zooming past 100% with a digital photo in Photoshop. Its always gonna get ugly just because you are violating the the format and putting it in a universe it doesn't belong in. No blame here, just the laws of physics. If I took some really nice 16mm film and blew it up to IMAX, it would look awful. Same difference.

In addition to all of that I would have to say that my hunch is that the 960 is doing a better job than a cheap HD LCD display would do with the same SD signal. But in my personal opinion it is a losing race from the get go, and I warn all HDTV buyers.

And all of this is fine with me because I know I am an early adopter of HD and the U.S. is straddling the fence right now. I'm a big boy and can put up with this awkward arrangement of TV signals. My friends come over to my place to watch "24" in HD, and I will now go over to their place to watch "The Shield" in SD on my old Sony 31" XBR I just gave them. Each environment is superior in its own way for now.

OK, so now for some specific clarifications:

Clearly this set is not for you. Take it back and move on to something you like with SD signals.

No, clearly it IS for me because I realize what the power of this model is and what its strengths are. I am very happy with it and will use it in the appropriate environments where it shines. Its a brilliant set for HD, DVDs, and editing of HD television at home. Are you kidding? It is PERFECT for me.

But I will go over to my friend's to watch "The Shield" and turn the 960 off.


If you are a DirecTV customer, perhaps you just do not realize quite how badly they have begun mangling SD channels over the past several years. Dish Network does the same. It's utterly disgusting, and I stopped paying for it over a year ago.

Go read some of the reports from folks lucky enough to have FiOS installed at their house - the SD picture looks as good as a DVD. And that's pretty much how satellite tv used to look back when Dish started up. But they steadily degraded the picture year after year, and many customers just got used to it. Open your eyes.

Yes, I am very aware of the over compressing issues at Dish Network and DirecTV. Painfully so for years. I could write paragraphs about it in detail. My eyes have been open for a long time. My employers require it of me when I edit and color correct documentaries for television.

Your older sony "kicks the ass of the 960 up and down" because it has inferior picture quality.

Yes. Exactly so. That is the point I was trying to make: that the 960 is "too high end" to display the SD broadcast signals very well. When the quality of the tube and the signal are matched, they sing! We are in agreement.

I usually stay out of childish discussions where the seemingly trampled manhood of those with low self esteem begets stupid posts....but come on. ChristophersJ said 4 really nice things about our 34XBR's/Corvettes/<insert material object displacer here> and several "owners" have jumped all over him. Why? Who cares, did some one eat your wheaties today?

It's a TV!

Would you say these things to him in person? Get a life, if someone disagrees with you your repsonse is to tell him to take his toys and play elsewhere? You must have skipped kindergarten....

Signed, a happy 34XBR owner who can handle other peoples views...
BB

Amen, brother.

if you expect to use this 1080i monitor as a PC monitor, good luck
the Sony scales everything to 1080i so unless you use a really low resolution like 640x480p, you will not be able to read the small blurry text at 1080i, also no matter what you try it will never look like a PC CRT monitor

No, I want to use it as the HD monitor to view the HD output from the edit system (I'll be editing HD documentaries starting this year), not use it as a computer monitor. I use an amazing Dell LCD hooked up to my Mac for that. And that is all the more reason for wanting to fix the little imperfections with the Service Menu. Several other professional video engineers and editors have been skeptical of my plan saying that no consumer tube would do, but I think the 960 will be fine in all but the most critical cases.

-Christopher Johnson

I find a very wide range of quality on DirectV SD channels.

Premium channels sometimes are many times clearer than say TVland showing old reruns.

Some channels look as bad as an old standard VHS copied tape that has been compressed to boot.

When I setup my 960N for SD I looked for the best channels. I think D*tv modifies the band width (compression ) depending on how many viewers a channel has.

I've had my 960N for 2 wks. now. Very happy with it thus far. One thing I have noticed is the very poor picture quality I receive on Fox network via Dish SD. Peoples faces appear to be "morphing", especially on close-ups. On the Fox series 24 you can really see this. Hard to describe but it's like their faces are contorting, or visible movement/shadowing in their facial features. Anyone else notice this?

I don't have Dish but D*tv has a few HD channels ( about 10 ).
Some are fantastic like DiscoveryHD but TNTHD is a distorted HD representation.

Its been stretched by TNT presumably and has the same distorted faces you describe.

Its actually hard to watch. The picture quality is HD but everything is zoomed.

Fox cable is the worst quality SD channel on D*tv. Some locals that are being picked up and downlinked by satellite suffer a bit also.

Its not the TV

"Yes, I am very aware of the over compressing issues at Dish Network and DirecTV. Painfully so for years. I could write paragraphs about it in detail. My eyes have been open for a long time. My employers require it of me when I edit and color correct documentaries for television".

Hi Chris,

Besides compression could SD and digital seem less up to par because the dish is connected via s-cable? For us, all stations are fed through a HD cable box connected via HDMI and the non-HD stations look great, considering their limitations.

Enjoy your new 960.

- Joe

Hi Joseph,

That is a very good point. An HDTV has a tough enough job scaling an SD picture up to HD, but then it also needs to use its own on-board analog to digital conversion to "digitize" the signal. That's two big jobs at the same time.

Here is a test of your theory: I can tune in a digital OTA 480i broadcast with my antenna. That is a digital path all of the way. It looks much better than the S-video DirecTV. Not as good as my Sony XBR analog set but it is a definite improvement. So I think your idea is indeed a part of the story. My bet is that at least half of the things I find distasteful are because of the analog to digital conversion. The rest is because of the inherent lack of substance in the satellite NTSC picture because of compression, and the artificial upscaling the 960 has to do.

You know when I shrink the SD signal down, when it is in Twin View (in a smaller box), it looks fantastic! This is probably because it is closer to using just 480 pixels -- its natural state.

-Christopher Johnson

Hi Joseph,

That is a very good point. An HDTV has a tough enough job scaling an SD picture up to HD, but then it also needs to use its own on-board analog to digital conversion to "digitize" the signal. That's two big jobs at the same time.

Here is a test of your theory: I can tune in a digital OTA 480i broadcast with my antenna. That is a digital path all of the way. It looks much better than the S-video DirecTV. Not as good as my Sony XBR analog set but it is a definite improvement. So I think your idea is indeed a part of the story. My bet is that at least half of the things I find distasteful are because of the analog to digital conversion. The rest is because of the inherent lack of substance in the satellite NTSC picture because of compression, and the artificial upscaling the 960 has to do.

You know when I shrink the SD signal down, when it is in Twin View (in a smaller box), it looks fantastic! This is probably because it is closer to using just 480 pixels -- its natural state.

-Christopher Johnson


Hi Chris,

Glad I have someone to prove my theory correct!

One problem is that the 960 brings out the best, but also the limitations, of non-HD material.

Another problem is the human element. After viewing HD and DVDs it's difficult to judge the quality of digital or SD programming. For example, last night's ESPN broadcast of the WBC looked great but oh how awful it looked when viewed just in digital (but, had we not watched the HD broadcast it would not have appeared so bad to us).

Again, enjoy your new 960 and glad I was able to help a bit.

Joe

Hi Joseph,

That is a very good point. An HDTV has a tough enough job scaling an SD picture up to HD, but then it also needs to use its own on-board analog to digital conversion to "digitize" the signal. That's two big jobs at the same time.

Here is a test of your theory: I can tune in a digital OTA 480i broadcast with my antenna. That is a digital path all of the way. It looks much better than the S-video DirecTV. Not as good as my Sony XBR analog set but it is a definite improvement. So I think your idea is indeed a part of the story. My bet is that at least half of the things I find distasteful are because of the analog to digital conversion. The rest is because of the inherent lack of substance in the satellite NTSC picture because of compression, and the artificial upscaling the 960 has to do.

You know when I shrink the SD signal down, when it is in Twin View (in a smaller box), it looks fantastic! This is probably because it is closer to using just 480 pixels -- its natural state.

-Christopher Johnson

I definitely agree with that last paragraph. When I watch my satellite in PIP it looks fantastic. Maybe our TV model is just too good. :cool:

I usually stay out of childish discussions...
Nothing childish until this post... :rolleyes:
...Would you say these things to him in person?
Yep. It's a simple disagreement over one little point. "Get a life."

It's a TV!
No, really?

...You must have skipped kindergarten....
As a matter of fact, I did skip kindergarten.

Signed, a happy 34XBR owner who can handle other peoples views...
BB
Apparently not - at least not the views of the folks that disagreed with christophersj.

I have a question that is probably silly but hey why not ask. Would a person be able to put any type of new chip/board in the 960 in the future to make it able to output 1080p or is the screen unable to do it? I am also referring to someone who has technical expertise on doing this. Also is there some way to get an older dvd player to upconvert signals to 1080i if you put some type of new chip or processor in it and an hdmi output? I know some people will say well go buy a newer dvd player ect but i am just curious if it can be done.

Would you say these things to him in person? Get a life, if someone disagrees with you your repsonse is to tell him to take his toys and play elsewhere? You must have skipped kindergarten....

Signed, a happy 34XBR owner who can handle other peoples views...
BB

YES, I would say it to ANYONE in person. If someone pays $1K+ for something and they are not happy with it I'm going to tell them to take it back and get something that they are happy with. There are too many choices available to buy stuff and then complain about it.

He didn't disagree with any of my responses nor I his. He complained about the SD picture quality and I recommended he try another TV.

Perhaps you should get a life and go back to kindergarten to help improve your ed-ju-mi-cay-sion since you clearly missed what took place. :rolleyes:

No, actually bbbobbb was kind of right. We may have mistaken your guys' tone but it sounded overly aggressive and immature. If you didnt intend it, then fine, but at least two of us read it that way.

I think any thorough reading of my post would reveal that I have both an informed and realistic opinion of this HDTV and that I love it for what it is. I like it. That's why I'm here when there are so many other things I could be doing with my time.

This in-between state of SD and HD we are all living in for these few years is awkward, both technically and as a viewer. If we cannot talk about some of the limitations of these cool machines, then how valuable and complete can this conversation really be? How is progress made without evaluation? It just becomes a gushy fan page like Tiger Beat magazine if this dialog is not inquisitive, intellectually curious, and whole. Coming from the professional video world, I thought my opinion might have something to add to the conversation about the 960.

Can you imagine if you were on a forum about performance cars and one poster wrote that he loved his new Mustang and its torque, that he was really loving the car, but found that he was irritated to discover it had horrible gas milage. And then another poster responded and asked in a huff why he didnt just get another car and stop complaining. It would be like the opposite of a true dialog.

I found Joseph Dubin's response about the SD problem much more constructive.

So, in conclusion, I can say that, after having the set for three days, I chose to watch "The Shield" on the analog set tonight and am glad I did. But this weekend, my friends are coming over to watch DVD's and HD on the 960 because we all think it rocks those formats better than anything else! Wouldnt it be great if our constructive dialog here helped influence more cable channels like FX and SciFi to go HD?

-Christopher

I found Joseph Dubin's response about the SD problem much more constructive. -Christopher


So did I LOL. :)

No, actually bbbobbb was kind of right. We may have mistaken your guys' tone but it sounded overly aggressive and immature. If you didnt intend it, then fine, but at least two of us read it that way.

I think any thorough reading of my post would reveal that I have both an informed and realistic opinion of this HDTV and that I love it for what it is. I like it. That's why I'm here when there are so many other things I could be doing with my time.

Not to get into a shouting match over this, but let's make sure we are accurately representing what was said.

Posters here on this forum who claimed that Standard Def signals (other than DVDs), whether from Digital Broadcasts, or satellite translate well to this Sony set are just not telling the truth. My 12 year old Sony XBR kicks the ass of the 960 up and down the street when displaying DirecTV. There just isnt a debate to be had about this.

Sounds to me like you just called a bunch of people liers based on your assessment of the TV. The 12 year old Sony comment seems to smack of immaturity. Your last sentence slams the door on any open dialog since you've declared you're right and there is no debating it.

Just my take on the post, I could be wrong.

Can you imagine if you were on a forum about performance cars and one poster wrote that he loved his new Mustang and its torque, that he was really loving the car, but found that he was irritated to discover it had horrible gas milage. And then another poster responded and asked in a huff why he didnt just get another car and stop complaining. It would be like the opposite of a true dialog.

As for the Mustang comment, me being the Chebby guy that I am, would tell the owner to drive it off a cliff to improve the gas mileage. :D

I need to appologize to bbbobbb for the tone of my post yesterday regarding his reply that was supportive of christophersj. I could have made my point in a much kinder way.

FWIW, I was initially reacting to christophersj's comment towards those of us who have reported very good quality SD on our sets:

Originally Posted by christophersj
Posters here on this forum who claimed that Standard Def signals (other than DVDs), whether from Digital Broadcasts, or satellite translate well to this Sony set are just not telling the truth. My 12 year old Sony XBR kicks the ass of the 960 up and down the street when displaying DirecTV. There just isnt a debate to be had about this.
I felt this note was calling me a liar. Which set the stage for my unkind reply to bbbobbb.

I still do feel offended by christophersj's assertion, but that's pretty much water under the bridge by now.

Cheers!

I do not feel Christopher's use of the phrase "just not telling the truth" was meant to call anyone a liar but to emphasize his vastly different point of view. There have been a few people who thought SD and/or digital looked better on their older sets until they realized those also masked the deficiencies of non-HD material which the 960 brought out.

This is a great forum that was already closed down once due to the harsh tone of some members. Let's all take a deep breath and relax so this doesn't occur again. We don't want this forum to go the way of the 960, do we? LOL.

- Joe

Sounds to me like you just called a bunch of people liers based on your assessment of the TV. The 12 year old Sony comment seems to smack of immaturity. Your last sentence slams the door on any open dialog since you've declared you're right and there is no debating it.

Just my take on the post, I could be wrong.


Right, my very first comment about it was indeed limiting and then I corrected it in the second post. I think I was reacting to a number of other posts throughout this 960 forum that chastised others for worrying about SD performance. What I should have said in the first post was that I thought it was unfair to be so dismissive of the 960 owners and the 960-curious who were worried about it because, quite clearly, there is an issue with ANY HDTV displaying SD analog broadcast material. After I bought it and set it up with the first level of calibration, I thought to myself, "wow, those concerns on the forum WERE warranted" and the guys who jumped on them were wrong, in my opinion.

That being said, it now seems that at least half of you think the SD analog broadcast performance is fantastic on the 960. (Can you do polls on this forum?) so I respect that as a different matter of taste and move on.

Now, it seems to me that we are in agreement about the other 75% of what this set has to offer, which is an amazing HD picture. Here is a new topic:

Im gonna get my DirecTV service upgraded to HD and might even get the HD Tivo option. The HD Tivo records the signal directly with a built in tuner so there is no extra compression happening. So quality is lossless from the broadcast, but you cannot record external sources because there is no MPEG-2 digitizer or AV inputs, except "Antenna". While many of my local HD channels will come over the satellite, one will not -- the local PBS, which has some amazing HD content.

My question is this? Because the OTA PBS is already digitzed, can the DirecTV HD Tivo "record" the OTA signal like it would the satellite feed? Would the OTA signal be treated just like the "direct-to-disk" data stream that happens with the satellite?

-Christopher

Right, my very first comment about it was indeed limiting and then I corrected it in the second post. I think I was reacting to a number of other posts throughout this 960 forum that chastised others for worrying about SD performance. What I should have said in the first post was that I thought it was unfair to be so dismissive of the 960 owners and the 960-curious who were worried about it because, quite clearly, there is an issue with ANY HDTV displaying SD analog broadcast material. After I bought it and set it up with the first level of calibration, I thought to myself, "wow, those concerns on the forum WERE warranted" and the guys who jumped on them were wrong, in my opinion.

That being said, it now seems that at least half of you think the SD analog broadcast performance is fantastic on the 960. (Can you do polls on this forum?) so I respect that as a different matter of taste and move on.

Now, it seems to me that we are in agreement about the other 75% of what this set has to offer, which is an amazing HD picture. Here is a new topic:

Im gonna get my DirecTV service upgraded to HD and might even get the HD Tivo option. The HD Tivo records the signal directly with a built in tuner so there is no extra compression happening. So quality is lossless from the broadcast, but you cannot record external sources because there is no MPEG-2 digitizer or AV inputs, except "Antenna". While many of my local HD channels will come over the satellite, one will not -- the local PBS, which has some amazing HD content.

My question is this? Because the OTA PBS is already digitzed, can the DirecTV HD Tivo "record" the OTA signal like it would the satellite feed? Would the OTA signal be treated just like the "direct-to-disk" data stream that happens with the satellite?

-Christopher

Chris, is there a cable provider in your area that can offer a HD-DVR? Ours does and it allows us to record onto the hard drive (in HD where applicable) while watching other channels (in fact, it can record two different programs at the same time onto the hard drive). We also have an output for dubbing from the hard drive to a DVD Recorder or VCR when watching cable as well. It can store up to 100 hours of standard/digital definition and about 40 hours of high definition.

Just a thought so you do not have to worry about missing any HD content from PBS.


- Joe

Just a suggestion

Chris, is there a cable provider in your area that can offer a HD-DVR?


Yes, I think it is Comcast here. I will have to confirm this, but I think it may lack some essential Tivo features like the "eternal key-word search" where you type a key-word into the search (like "hydrogen") and it will look in every program description until eternity and record programs that match that, without you ever having to ask again. Its like a "sticky" search term that is always on the lookout. Its very cool.


-Christopher

I was reading a tech manual for this TV and they reccomended placing the TV so that the picture tube sits in an east-west direction when adjusting geometry. Why would it say that?

Yes, I think it is Comcast here. I will have to confirm this, but I think it may lack some essential Tivo features like the "eternal key-word search" where you type a key-word into the search (like "hydrogen") and it will look in every program description until eternity and record programs that match that, without you ever having to ask again. Its like a "sticky" search term that is always on the lookout. Its very cool.


-Christopher
Hi Chris,

Yes, word search is a nice feature but I'm really a fan of DVR. Not having ever used TIVO I am not familiar with how much it offers but this is what we can do we our HD DVR:

1) Program a recording by just pressing a button on the cable's TV guide.

2) Record a program onto the hard drive while watching another.

3) Record a program onto the hard drive, dub a program from the hard drive to a DVD recorder and still watch a live program.

4) Record two different programs airing at the same time while dubbing or watching a program previously stored on the hard drive.

5) The hard drive automatically begins recording whenever a channel is selected so you don't have to be disappointed if watching something then wish you had recorded it.

6) Pause, re-wind, watch from the beginning or pick up the program later on from the point stopped (assume this is standard on TIVO).

7) Dub a recording from the hard drive to a DVR recorder while watching a live broadcast without affecting the program being dubbed.

8) If something goes wrong with the DVR it can be replaced for free.

This only costs us $9.95 a month....

Again just the thoughts from a fan of HD DVR.

Ciao,
Joe

Comcast will be offering Tivo service on their systems later this year. Might be worth waiting for rather than spending tons of money on DirecTV hardware just to end up watching their HD-lite video. (you are aware that they downrez their HD channels now, to non-HD resolutions and bandwidths). Many folks that spent $800 or more on that Tivo box wish they hadn't.

I have a question out there in regards to buying a used 34XBR960 to replace my current 30" Samsung TX-P3064W. The guy who is selling it is offering the set at a very good price price (<$1000), but here's the kicker:

"This television is in great shape and is only 7 months old.

Some of the protective glare screen has been rubbed off (can be seen in the photos). It happened accidentally while I was trying to clean crayon off the screen (thank you my oldest daughter!). However, THIS DOES NOT AFFECT THE PICTURE. It is phenomenal! The missing glare screen is only noticeable in high glare situations when the television is off".

(I can't put up links to the pics due to posting less than 5 times)

So, do you think I should I go for it or pass? Anyway around the anti-glare issue? Thanks in advance for the help!

Has anyone here used the optical out on the 960? If so, does it send out a 5.1 signal? I can't see how that can be done because the audio in jacks are 2 channel, especially if using an HDMI cable which is 2 channel or even the cable in jacks. The component in jacks are two channel stereo as well.

Has anyone here used the optical out on the 960? If so, does it send out a 5.1 signal? I can't see how that can be done because the audio in jacks are 2 channel, especially if using an HDMI cable which is 2 channel or even the cable in jacks. The component in jacks are two channel stereo as well.

I use it and it works fine when there is a 5.1 DD signal. The 6 channels are encoded in a single bitstream which only requires one wire, The HDMI input is limited to 2.0 DD for reasons I don't know. The other jacks as you say only output two channel stereo.

Has anyone here used the optical out on the 960? If so, does it send out a 5.1 signal? I can't see how that can be done because the audio in jacks are 2 channel, especially if using an HDMI cable which is 2 channel or even the cable in jacks. The component in jacks are two channel stereo as well.If you use the internal ATSC tuner then the digital audio stream is sent out over the optical output. If that's DD5.1, that's what sent out.

If you use the analog L/R stereo audio (INPUT5-6, INPUT1-3) then the analog stereo audio is copied to the "monitor out" jacks, which are also analog L/R stereo. It is not copied to the digital optical audio output.

I believe that the digital audio stream provided through an HDMI connection is also copied out over the optical output (though I don't use it). However a better approach here is to feed your digital audio output from your real "source" (e.g. STB/DVR/DVHS) directly to your audio receiver via optical, and use just the video to the 960. No need to pass the digital/optical audio through the 960 (assuming you can send DD5.1 via HDMI to/through the 960), where there might end up being a lip-sync problem because of the slight delay that might occur from passing on the digital audio through an intermediate device.

I have a question out there in regards to buying a used 34XBR960 to replace my current 30" Samsung TX-P3064W. The guy who is selling it is offering the set at a very good price price (<$1000), but here's the kicker:

"This television is in great shape and is only 7 months old.

Some of the protective glare screen has been rubbed off (can be seen in the photos). It happened accidentally while I was trying to clean crayon off the screen (thank you my oldest daughter!). However, THIS DOES NOT AFFECT THE PICTURE. It is phenomenal! The missing glare screen is only noticeable in high glare situations when the television is off".

(I can't put up links to the pics due to posting less than 5 times)

So, do you think I should I go for it or pass? Anyway around the anti-glare issue? Thanks in advance for the help!

Ooof, I'd pass, even at that price. Just to let you know though I personally steer clear of refurb., used or demo items. It's just a personal choice... I do recognize that some people feel it's the way to go and have had success stories. My concerns always stem from being woried about not only what i know is wrong, but what else could pop up that I'm not aware of.

If you decide to go with it, search this thread. A poster accidentally scratched this material and buffed the rest off about 6 months ago. If I remember correctly, he claimed this was successful. I'd be leary though... honestly I'd go with some other situation (i.e., a refurb from Sony with waranty) before risking a private seller who aknowledges kids having damaging access.

I have not kept on top of them, but I have seen threads recently with vendors that still have sets. Check the CRT forum and keep on the lookout.

Comcast will be offering Tivo service on their systems later this year. Might be worth waiting for rather than spending tons of money on DirecTV hardware just to end up watching their HD-lite video. (you are aware that they downrez their HD channels now, to non-HD resolutions and bandwidths). Many folks that spent $800 or more on that Tivo box wish they hadn't.

Mr. 2828,

Where can I find out more about DirecTV downresing their HD signal? If the picture on HD satellite is of lesser quality, either by compression or downresing, than HD on digital cable, I would like to find out every detail about that possible.

Thanks,

-Christopher

There have been multiple threads on this here and at other satellite forums. For instance go look/search in the HDTV Programming forum here for some threads. Look for keyword "HD lite".

Basics:

They are downrezzing 1080i channels to 1280x1024 res.

They have cut down the bandwidth on many channels to well below the normal, in some cases below 10mbps.

For all their new local channels and also I think any new national HD stations, they are re-encoding those to MPEG-4, which will also be transmitted at lower bitrates, and I assume based on how badly they've mangled SD stations that they will gradually lower these bitrates over time to squeeze ever more HD home shopping channels in and whatnot. Even if they amazingly maintain high MPEG-4 bitrates, the re-encoding process from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 is automatically suboptimal in my opinion.

There have been multiple threads on this here and at other satellite forums. For instance go look/search in the HDTV Programming forum here for some threads. Look for keyword "HD lite".

Basics:

They are downrezzing 1080i channels to 1280x1024 res.

Thanks for the heads up. That search term is helping.

Too bad the digital cable doesnt have Universal HD. They are re-running episodes of Battlestar Galactica in HD. Oh well.

-Christopher

Has anyone here used the optical out on the 960? If so, does it send out a 5.1 signal? I can't see how that can be done because the audio in jacks are 2 channel, especially if using an HDMI cable which is 2 channel or even the cable in jacks. The component in jacks are two channel stereo as well.

Yes it sends out 5.1 through the optical out if you are using the built in ATSC tuner or the cable QAM tuner and the program is being broadcast with 5.1 audio. Even the NFL football games on Fox have come through in 5.1

Thanks for the heads up. That search term is helping.

Too bad the digital cable doesnt have Universal HD. They are re-running episodes of Battlestar Galactica in HD. Oh well.

-Christopher

Actually Comcast did carry Universal HD during the winter olympics, and still has it in some markets. It's rumored that it will eventually return in the other markets. I think there's a thread or two about this in the HDTV Programming forum.

Also I think I read that MTV HD and ESPN2 HD are on the way relatively soon for Comcast.

Thanks for the heads up. That search term is helping.

Too bad the digital cable doesnt have Universal HD. They are re-running episodes of Battlestar Galactica in HD. Oh well.

-Christopher
my housemate now gets neflix, and battlestar is available there on DVDs, which we are just beginning to watch....your XBR ought to upconvert that pretty well...

Big Ugly Dish + OTA + some cable providers = the only decent HD being broadcast. Hard to find and must spend alot to get it--otherwise all you get is downrezzed stuff which makes HD seem useless--UNLESS you want it to be SO BAD so you'll SELL more HD-DVD or Blueray discs! Do you think Hollywood would do something like that?

Hrm so I got a Panasonic S97 DVD player today and to be honest im not to impressed with the 720 / 1080i output on it via HDMI , It looks almost identical to my Sony NS725P player connected via Component (480P). Don't get me wrong It doesnt look any worse and it looks very good... it just doesnt look much differant at all, I guess you cant expect much from a 480i > 1080i conversion.

But I would have to say its definitely true when people say up converting dvd players are best suited for fixed pixel displays ,the improvement on a CRT just isn't there.

The one bonus of having it hooked up to HDMI is it freeing up a component input on the TV for something else, such as one of my videogame consoles..

I've only compared a couple DVDs so far but I doubt my opinion will change unless im missing some magical setting on the S97 or something.

Big Ugly Dish + OTA + some cable providers = the only decent HD being broadcast. Hard to find and must spend alot to get it--otherwise all you get is downrezzed stuff which makes HD seem useless--UNLESS you want it to be SO BAD so you'll SELL more HD-DVD or Blueray discs! Do you think Hollywood would do something like that?

Or Dish Network except for the Voom channels.

Ooof, I'd pass, even at that price. Just to let you know though I personally steer clear of refurb., used or demo items. It's just a personal choice... I do recognize that some people feel it's the way to go and have had success stories. My concerns always stem from being woried about not only what i know is wrong, but what else could pop up that I'm not aware of.

If you decide to go with it, search this thread. A poster accidentally scratched this material and buffed the rest off about 6 months ago. If I remember correctly, he claimed this was successful. I'd be leary though... honestly I'd go with some other situation (i.e., a refurb from Sony with waranty) before risking a private seller who aknowledges kids having damaging access.

I have not kept on top of them, but I have seen threads recently with vendors that still have sets. Check the CRT forum and keep on the lookout.

Thanks for the feedback. The set is still under warranty for another year and five months, and you just can't beat the price. It's a tough call... the glare screen damage is the only thing that is really holding me back from buying it. I've never come across a Sony factory refurb. Where would I be able to find those?

Thanks for the feedback. The set is still under warranty for another year and five months, and you just can't beat the price. It's a tough call... the glare screen damage is the only thing that is really holding me back from buying it. I've never come across a Sony factory refurb. Where would I be able to find those?

Sony Outlet stores. I got one two weeks ago.

Thanks for the feedback. The set is still under warranty for another year and five months, and you just can't beat the price. It's a tough call... the glare screen damage is the only thing that is really holding me back from buying it. I've never come across a Sony factory refurb. Where would I be able to find those?

Check out the clearances. I've seen some incredible prices on new units. (That glare coating is an important part of the set.)

Sony Outlet stores. I got one two weeks ago.

Good price? Any problems with the set?

Has anybody been able to get the Namco Guncon2 lightgun to work with the 960N and a PS2? I have tried the following:

1) Hook up 960N Composite video (vid1) to guncon2

Result: Rolling X problem: the x on the calibration screen calibrates well and follows the gun vertically, but horizontally the x flickers across the screen

2) Hook up 960N Component video green cable (vid5) to guncon2

Result: same as above

I hooked these up to an older 4:3 set, both component and composite worked fine.

Does anybody know what the problem might be, is it software or hardware? Does it have to do with the 16:9 screen size? Does the video signal need to be modifed somehow? Is there a fix out there somewhere?

Thanks,
-Brian

I just got a xbr960 today. Circuit City only had two left, and both were floor models. One was pretty scratched up, while the one I got seems to be in perfect condition. One thing that worries me though is that the sales person said this TV might have been refurbished. However, the manual and remote had not been opened, so maybe it's new and was just put out on the floor for a bit. However, just to be sure, is there anything I should check for to be sure the TV is in good working condition?

I do have two quesitons:
1. My XBOX games look far jaggier than they did on my HS420. Is this because of the higher resolution of the XBR, or is something wrong with the TV?

2. This question seems really dumb, but how the heck do I view HD channels that are broadcasted over cable? I did a digital channel search, and it found something like 23 channels. However, not a single channel appears to be in HD. Do I need to do something special in order to view HD broadcasts?

Has anybody been able to get the Namco Guncon2 lightgun to work with the 960N and a PS2? I have tried the following:

1) Hook up 960N Composite video (vid1) to guncon2

Result: Rolling X problem: the x on the calibration screen calibrates well and follows the gun vertically, but horizontally the x flickers across the screen

2) Hook up 960N Component video green cable (vid5) to guncon2

Result: same as above

I hooked these up to an older 4:3 set, both component and composite worked fine.

Does anybody know what the problem might be, is it software or hardware? Does it have to do with the 16:9 screen size? Does the video signal need to be modifed somehow? Is there a fix out there somewhere?

Thanks,
-Brian

Light guns do not work with HDTV's. The only one that I have seen that does was specifically made to work with HDTV's and is a piece of junk.

Good price? Any problems with the set?

Great price (three digits), no operating problems so far.

<snipped>

2. This question seems really dumb, but how the heck do I view HD channels that are broadcasted over cable? I did a digital channel search, and it found something like 23 channels. However, not a single channel appears to be in HD. Do I need to do something special in order to view HD broadcasts?

You may be looking at times where there are no HD broadcasts. Usually your best bets are in prime time or the morning network shows. Are you sure you are getting your cable provider's feeds for your local digital signals? If so, check with them to see where they have slotted those channels. In reading the AVS forum boards for the TV markets around me, it seems like the local cable outlets are taking their sweet time adding locals to their services.

I don't know about anybody else, but it took me a couple of days of finagling the Silver Sensor before my set started showing the OTA digital channels.

I'm pretty sure I'm getting digital signals, as we're subscribed to digital cable. My mom has a cable box upstairs. When the TV did a search for digital signals is found 100+, and then said "Signals shown" and said something like 23. Then when the TV got done searching I couldn't seem to find any HD channels. Do I just change to them like any other channel?

Also, should I be able to take the cable box from upstairs and hook it up to my TV? I tried doing this last week and the box wouldn't even turn on properly. When I hooked it back up to my mom's HDTV it turned on just fine and worked perfectly.

Thanks again.

I'm pretty sure I'm getting digital signals, as we're subscribed to digital cable. My mom has a cable box upstairs. When the TV did a search for digital signals is found 100+, and then said "Signals shown" and said something like 23. Then when the TV got done searching I couldn't seem to find any HD channels. Do I just change to them like any other channel?
Thanks again.

Start with channel 2, use the remote and go up one channel at a time. Your HD signals could be anywhere depending on your cable provider. I have some HD channels in the 400s, music channels start at 92.16, locals are anywhere between 2.1 and 54.2.

I just got a xbr960 today. 2. This question seems really dumb, but how the heck do I view HD channels that are broadcasted over cable? I did a digital channel search, and it found something like 23 channels. However, not a single channel appears to be in HD. Do I need to do something special in order to view HD broadcasts?This may seem like something you already were supposed to know, but if you have a "cable box" (aka STB or DVR) that is capable of delivering HD to your set, you need to connect it to your XBR960 via (a) component video, or (b) DVI/HDMI on STB/DVR to HDMI on XBR960. That's how you feed the HD channels tuned to by the STB/DVR to the set... via INPUT5, INPUT6, or INPUT7. None of these inputs corresponds to "channels" on the XBR960. They are fed directly from the STB/DVR to the XBR960, with the STB/DVR responsible for the channel tuning (either HD or SD).

You only deal with "channel scan" on the XBR960 for off-air channels received from your roof antenna, connected via coax to the RF inputs on the back of the XBR960 and dealt with through the NTSC/ATSC tuners in the set. That's where you get "channel 2 (SD analog)" or "channel 2.1 (DTV/HD digital), etc. And that's where the channel scan from SETUP would occur.

But for cable-provided channels, it's INPUT5-INPUT7 you should be using and watching, and there are no "channels" as such. The STB/DVR is your tuner.

Of course if you have "cablecard" and not a STB/DVR, the above comments regarding STB/DVR and component/DVI/HDMI are not relevant.

I don't have a cable card or "cable box", I was just trying to get the unscrambled HD channels that are broadcasted regularly.

I left the TV to search for digital channels as I slept, and when I woke up it had detected a bunch of them. A basketball game was on in 1080i, and it was gorgeous. I don't know what was going on before, but everything seems to be working fine now.

I don't have a cable card or "cable box", I was just trying to get the unscrambled HD channels that are broadcasted regularly.

I left the TV to search for digital channels as I slept, and when I woke up it had detected a bunch of them. A basketball game was on in 1080i, and it was gorgeous. I don't know what was going on before, but everything seems to be working fine now.

Don't know if this is the case, but with me I tried scanning the cable for HD and none were found, as I didn't have the HD package from my local cable company (comcast). All I could find was over the air HD, which required an antenna to tune in.

Try an antenna and scanning for HD over the air.

Don't know if this is the case, but with me I tried scanning the cable for HD and none were found, as I didn't have the HD package from my local cable company (comcast). All I could find was over the air HD, which required an antenna to tune in.

Try an antenna and scanning for HD over the air.

I also have Comcast, no HD package and without a STB. I plugged the coax directly to the 960 "CABLE" input and did a scan. It found the HD local channels. This is in NJ

I am looking for an armoire to house my XBR960. Does anyone have any suggestions as to where I might find one. I am looking for something that isn't too expensive as I spent almost all my money on the TV itself :). I would like to find one that has doors on it and also would like to be able to close them once in awhile to give the beast a rest. Thanks.

I am looking for an armoire to house my XBR960. Does anyone have any suggestions as to where I might find one. I am looking for something that isn't too expensive as I spent almost all my money on the TV itself :). I would like to find one that has doors on it and also would like to be able to close them once in awhile to give the beast a rest. Thanks.
That's a tough one to call. Even the A/V stands that are big and sturdy enough to house the 960 start at around $250 with the matching stand by Sony going for $350 (if it can be found). If you are interested in a stand there were some posts on this subject about a month ago which you can search through.

An armoire would cost much much more. It would require a compartment much larger than the 960 itself (because the vents on both sides and the top cannot be blocked), shelving would have to handle it's more than 200 pound weight and overall the furniture would need to be deeper than most. Avoid any that needs to be assembled, at least in this case.

Meanwhile, congratulations on your new 960 - you'll find it was worth every penny

Got my 960n today, $1,408.00 out the door and was brand new. Thanx to all for this thread with a 130 pages long so I could makeup my mind. O ya the place I got it from has 11 more new in box still for sale.

Got my 960n today, $1,408.00 out the door and was brand new. Thanx to all for this thread with a 130 pages long so I could makeup my mind. O ya the place I got it from has 11 more new in box still for sale.

nothing in the rules saying you cannot post where you got it from, in fact most that are looking for this TV, would most probably appreciate it

Just dropping by from the RPTV forum. Hope that's OK. :)

I'm considering picking up a 960 before they're all gone. The local stores - I'm in Maine - all seem to have only the 960N available. And according to the boxes I've seen, the set is assembled "south of the border." I was under the impression that the 960 was "made in the USA." Am I mistaken?

In any case, would someone please be so kind as to give a brief rundown of the pluses & minuses of the 960 vs. the 960N.

Lastly, the one store that said they had Sony's matching stand in stock; listed the part number as SU-34XBR1. I thought the correct model number was SU-34XBR3. Is the "1" the stand that is of a slightly different silver color and therefore not the proper match for the 960 or 960N?

Thanks,

Be skiing ya,

DSG

The XBR1 stand is for the 34XBR910, it will fit the 960 but there is a slight color mismatch between the TV and the stand.

Thanks TTZX....If I decide to purchase an XBR960(N), I'll be sure to go with the XBR3 stand. I certainly would want the colors to match. :)

Be skiing ya,

DSG

Does anyone have one of these things and live in an upstairs apartment?

I keep trying to talk myself into/out of buying one before the last ones vanish.

I want to do lots of video games (old consoles and new, sometimes pc) and tv/movies but I'd eventually want something with a bigger screen in the livingroom (50-55"+) and the xbr960 is so deep that I worry that it may be too big to want in the bedroom (where any other smaller screen hdtv would eventually be).

But the thing that gets me the most is the thought about moving.... and the thought of a couple of guys (if not me) trying to carry 200 lbs of fragile electronic glass downstairs.

It's ironic to me that they charge LESS for delivery on this than on large screen TVs because they price by screen size. :)

I posted a few days back about a problem I had with my new 960N. It had an extensive color cast in the upper right corner of the screen and a small crack in the right corner of the frame face. I contacted Sony and a repair person came out. I suggeated we check the magnetic shield for the right speaker so he opened the back. The shield was fine, but the plastic frame that the picture tube attaches to at the right front was cracked as well. He said that there wasn't any way Sony could warrantee the set with the apparent damage. In fact, if they were to replace the picture tube the mounting bracket might well fall apart. So I have no choice but to arrange a return to ABT. Does anyone know if this tv is available from another authorized source? :(

But the thing that gets me the most is the thought about moving.... and the thought of a couple of guys (if not me) trying to carry 200 lbs of fragile electronic glass downstairs.



Thats why God made moving companies. Not all movers are former convicts or current idiots. I own a moving company and we do this just about everyday for 12 hours...pianos up 4 flights of stairs, king beds up 6 flights...that sort of thing. You find a local company, check with the BBB and hire them. They are insured. If you can afford a nice TV...you can afford a good moving company.

And 200lbs is nothing. What happened, don't we lift weights and work out anymore? Two people can't lift 200lbs easily?

I do understand though, that the TV delivery people usually don't have a clue how to even move their own products. But...they are insured too, so.....

Just dropping by from the RPTV forum. Hope that's OK. :)

I'm considering picking up a 960 before they're all gone. The local stores - I'm in Maine - all seem to have only the 960N available. And according to the boxes I've seen, the set is assembled "south of the border." I was under the impression that the 960 was "made in the USA." Am I mistaken?



The Mexicali plant is roughly an hour south of Palm Springs (and right below I-8) on the border.

http://waysandmeans.house.gov/hearings.asp?formmode=view&id=3586


http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060120/news_1n20sony.html


http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/8963/mexicali2cz.th.jpg (http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mexicali2cz.jpg)

The Mexicali plant is roughly an hour south of Palm Springs (and right below I-8) on the border.

http://waysandmeans.house.gov/hearings.asp?formmode=view&id=3586


http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060120/news_1n20sony.html


http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/8963/mexicali2cz.th.jpg (http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mexicali2cz.jpg)

Very interesting reading.

My 1995 era XBR100 was made in Mexico and I was hesitant to buy at the time because of that but it has performed very well.

Now I am thankful to be getting one (960N) made in Mexico instead of China.........

I posted a few days back about a problem I had with my new 960N. It had an extensive color cast in the upper right corner of the screen and a small crack in the right corner of the frame face. I contacted Sony and a repair person came out. I suggeated we check the magnetic shield for the right speaker so he opened the back. The shield was fine, but the plastic frame that the picture tube attaches to at the right front was cracked as well. He said that there wasn't any way Sony could warrantee the set with the apparent damage. In fact, if they were to replace the picture tube the mounting bracket might well fall apart. So I have no choice but to arrange a return to ABT. Does anyone know if this tv is available from another authorized source? :(

Too bad on this outcome. How about ABT? Can they track down a replacement?
Try contacting the poster #3919 LoOser I think.

Does anyone have one of these things and live in an upstairs apartment?

I keep trying to talk myself into/out of buying one before the last ones vanish.

I want to do lots of video games (old consoles and new, sometimes pc) and tv/movies but I'd eventually want something with a bigger screen in the livingroom (50-55"+) and the xbr960 is so deep that I worry that it may be too big to want in the bedroom (where any other smaller screen hdtv would eventually be).

But the thing that gets me the most is the thought about moving.... and the thought of a couple of guys (if not me) trying to carry 200 lbs of fragile electronic glass downstairs. :)

Can understand your concern about moving it down a flight of stairs. Don't think the weight would be a problem if carried by two professionals but, like you, my concern would be the 960's screen - it would need to be covered with enough protective padding and styrofoam (or equivalent) to prevent damage from an accidental bump against the stairwell, etc.

If you replace it with a 50-55 inch flat panel you would need to sit between 10-1/2 and 11-1/2 feet from the screen. Is your configuration large enough for that? If not, because it's more than two feet deep the 960 will appear equivalent to maybe a 37 or 38 inch flat screen which would be further back from the same viewing position.

And you might find you will want to keep your 960 in the living room because of it's superior picture and get another one for the bedroom.

Go get a 960 while they can still be found!

I posted a few days back about a problem I had with my new 960N. It had an extensive color cast in the upper right corner of the screen and a small crack in the right corner of the frame face. I contacted Sony and a repair person came out. I suggeated we check the magnetic shield for the right speaker so he opened the back. The shield was fine, but the plastic frame that the picture tube attaches to at the right front was cracked as well. He said that there wasn't any way Sony could warrantee the set with the apparent damage. In fact, if they were to replace the picture tube the mounting bracket might well fall apart. So I have no choice but to arrange a return to ABT. Does anyone know if this tv is available from another authorized source? :(

Is your warranty through Sony or ABT? If Sony, have you contacted them since the repair person came? You have a two year warranty for all parts and labor so if it can't be fixed, you are entitled to another set. Sony does not have the right to make exception to any damaged part under warranty if not caused by the owner.

ABT is completely out of this TV. They are taking it back and refunding the cost. The repairman Sony sent said that shipping damage is not covered under Sony's warranty. So my recourse was ABT. I can't imagine going through Sony's customer care telephone maze and ever encountering anyone with the authority to effect an exchange, but I might try for awhile and see what happens.

I called Sony Customer Care and got through fairly quickly to a helpful person. Unfortunately they reiterated what the repairman had said; Sony will not cover physical damage as a warranty issue. It makes sense, as it stands, it's probably ABT's loss and not Sony's. I'll continue to look for one of these sets from a reputable dealer.

ABT is completely out of this TV. They are taking it back and refunding the cost. The repairman Sony sent said that shipping damage is not covered under Sony's warranty. So my recourse was ABT. I can't imagine going through Sony's customer care telephone maze and ever encountering anyone with the authority to effect an exchange, but I might try for awhile and see what happens.

Did you get ABT to waive the return shipping charge for everything over 50lbs? They state on their website that they send a return fee notice before item is picked up for return.

I called Sony Customer Care and got through fairly quickly to a helpful person. Unfortunately they reiterated what the repairman had said; Sony will not cover physical damage as a warranty issue. It makes sense, as it stands, it's probably ABT's loss and not Sony's. I'll continue to look for one of these sets from a reputable dealer.

Sorry I misunderstood - thought it was damage that affected the working condition of the set. Glad you are getting your money back from ABT.

Quick question, is a 12ft. HDMI-to-DVI cable too long for connecting a PC to the XBR? I ask this because I heard really long HDMI/DVI cables will negatively affect the PQ.

Can anyone tell me how exactly the 960N transforms 720p to 1080i? Is it just a scaled and smoothed 360i?

I'd read that to get 720p from a 1080i source, most TVs drop one of the frames and scale the 540p to 720p. Do native 1080i TVs do the opposite of that?

I had grown accustomed to scaling via dscaler (in an htpc) but my PC can't accept 720p so I'm SOL there.

Also, with all the talk in the other threads -- Does the HDMI on the 960N have HDCP? (In other words: Will I be able to successfully play a Blu-Ray disc to it?)

Thanks for the help.

I just got off the phone with a local retailer that has one 960 left -- but it is an open box model that has been on the floor as a display. Anyway, the salesman said that the manager would definitely work with me on a good price.

Has anyone gone this route? I don't really want one that has been on the floor, but options are running out. I'm beginning to think that if the price is right, a floor display 960 is better than a new 970.

Thoughts?

Sorry "kny3twalker" Fry's electronics in LA have many units available. All look new but what gets me is how they came up with so many in a short period of time "refurbished"? I asked and they said noway all were new there was noway they can be refurbished because they would have to disclose that it was on the box. Anyhoo, my looks great and and have no complaints so far, if I do I will take that last post with the google map and drive down to TJ and tell sony to coughup a new one pronto, yaright.

I passed on an open box today - I'm planning to get a new one, though Im nervous because I cant seem to find answers to my questions. It should be an ok gaming monitor one way or another.

Quick question, is a 12ft. HDMI-to-DVI cable too long for connecting a PC to the XBR? I ask this because I heard really long HDMI/DVI cables will negatively affect the PQ.

DVI spec is 5 meters (around 16 feet) so 12 feet should be fine.

Others have had luck with longer runs, so yrmv.

Also, with all the talk in the other threads -- Does the HDMI on the 960N have HDCP? (In other words: Will I be able to successfully play a Blu-Ray disc to it?)


Yes, it has HDMI.

Will you be able to view a Blu-Ray in 1080P? No, because the set won't do 1080P.

Can you view BR or HD-DVD in 1080i? Most certainly.

Will it allow the BluRay or HD-DVD to output 5.1 audio to an outboard processor .......well..... based on current spec, most likely not, as the television will not tell the player that it is 5.1 capable and thus only allow it to send 2.0 audio. A firmware update MAY be able to correct this if it becomes reality, but it would help if the set was still in production.

Will it have problems with the HDMI 1.3 spec? Most all HDMI 1.1 devices are creating significant audio noise when connected to a HDMI 1.3 device (which, for example, the PS3 will be). Again, a firmware update might correct this, but again, will one be forthcoming?

Again, a firmware update might correct this, but again, will one be forthcoming?

Probably not.

It's obvious that all of the leading companies are more or less done with tubes, in terms of any serious support.

Q why would a company like SONY do that to ppl who spend a great deal of money on a set like this. They shouldn't leave us in the lurch like this, right?

It would be nice if you could use Blu-Ray or whatever other digitally protected content (at 1080i). I can live without the convenience features... as long as the video plays to the TV and there's another way to get the audio out of the player.

Q why would a company like SONY do that to ppl who spend a great deal of money on a set like this. They shouldn't leave us in the lurch like this, right?

I certainly agree with you 100 percent on that and the sentiment behind it. Unforunteately, I'm just not going to hold my breath anyways.

You know this industry is going...

As it stands, I really don't have any problem using HDMI for video and sending a coax or optical cable out for audio. It just isn't that a big of a deal to me. I don't have a receiver with HDMI switching anyways.

The PS3 is closest I'm getting to any kind of "early adoption" on any of this.

Q why would a company like SONY do that to ppl who spend a great deal of money on a set like this. They shouldn't leave us in the lurch like this, right?

Technically, its not the TV's fault. The TV doesn't do 5.1 - thats a fact.

Quite frankly, Sony may violate some of the agreements if they made a firmware update that told the player the TV did.

What Q hasn't grasped yet is the TV will tell the Player that 5.1 audio isn't doable on the TV set, so the player will take the 5.1 down 2.0 on the optical outputs of the player, according to spec as they are now.

This is true of most HDTVs now - not just this one.

Anyone else have a blue/purpleish blob-thing in the upper left-hand corner of their screen? It usually develops during white scenes. Is this fixable?

Thanks!

Two notes...

1) The TV does refuse to pass 5.1 audio via the optical outputs when set to the HDMI input. Whether this is on the TV side or a result of the handshake between the TV and the player, I'm not sure.

2) I just got my XBR960 ISF calibrated in the last two weeks, and the results are incredible. Colors seem far more accurate than before, and the images jump out and look more lifelike as a result. Highly recommended

Fan ur probably right about HDMI, but for OTA and QAM cable it will pass the signal.

What Q hasn't grasped yet is the TV will tell the Player that 5.1 audio isn't doable on the TV set, so the player will take the 5.1 down 2.0 on the optical outputs of the player, according to spec as they are now.Just to clarify the significance of this subject, and to ask a question or two...

This is a similar issue as is dealt with by owners of hardware combinations such as the SA8300 DVR and the Sharp Aquos LCD display. The SA8300 has HDMI-out, and the Aquos has both HDMI and DVI inputs. If you connect the SA8300 to the Aquos via HDMI, and also connect the SA8300 optical digital audio output to your receiver, the fact that the Aquos (like the XBR960) does NOT support DD5.1 through its HDMI/audio input forces the SA8300 to shut down audio if you've selected the "Dolby Digital" audio setting. So if you have the audio output setting on the SA8300 set to DD5.1, you end up getting ZERO audio output to the Aquos. You can change the SA8300 to instead specify 2-channel stereo audio so that you can hear through the TV's speakers, but then you lose DD5.1 optical digital audio output. Conundrum. Enigma.

The only "real" solution is to (1) use a different HDMI-to-DVI cable, feeding the Aquos via DVI, (2) connect the analog L/R audio output of the SA8300 to the anaolog L/R audio input of the Aquos (so that you can still listen to audio using the TV's speakers if you want). Now the SA8300 optical digital audio output is true DD5.1 fed to your receiver.

Well, as I understand things the situation with the XBR960 is exactly the same... substituting the XBR960 for the Aquos, and substituting a BRD/HDDVD player device for the SA8300.

However unlike with the Aquos which fortunately has both DVI and HDMI inputs and therefore provides a way to "fool" the SA8300 (HDMI source device communicating with DVI display device) and regain DD5.1 on digital audio output, the XBR960 (and probably LOTS of display devices) only have HDMI inputs, and no DVI alternative! But all (or 99.9%?) of these devices (including XBR960) do NOT accept DD5.1 over HDMI. If the BRD/HDDVD source device shuts down DD5.1 over the optical digital audio output if the HDMI display device cannot accept DD5.1 over HDMI, then HOW can this ever work... wanting to feed DD5.1 over optical digital audio to your receiver???

So exactly what possible configuration are the manufacturers envisioning where HDMI-to-HDMI is used for the video (when the display device cannot receive DD5.1 over HDMI), while also allowing true DD5.1 sent out over the optical digital audio output? Unless I'm missing something, or unless the BRD/HDDVD rules are not the same as that of the SA8300, I don't see how anybody will ever be able to get DD5.1/DTS out of their BRD/HDDVD optical digital audio output?

Seems impossible. What could they be thinking?

Am I missing something? Or does this problem still require manufacturers' resolution?

Wild guess here -- can you knock out the HDMI audio connection by coupling together two HDMI to DVI adaptor cables?

Perhaps I am not fully understanding, but why don't you just run an audio cable directly from the source to your receiver? Just bypass the TV altogether? Doing that right now with my sony dvd player.

Sure there is something I am not understanding.

Perhaps I am not fully understanding, but why don't you just run an audio cable directly from the source to your receiver? Just bypass the TV altogether? Doing that right now with my sony dvd player.

Sure there is something I am not understanding.We are discussing the new upcoming BRD/HDDVD players as "the source". And according to the product design, the video must be delivered to the HDTV via HDMI (from the player) in order to take advantage of their HD capability. But the ability of that same display device to receive DD5.1 (over the same HDMI cable) will also determine whether or not the optical digital audio output from the same player will be in DD5.1 or not as delivered to your receiver.

Since the TV's cannot receive DD5.1 via HDMI, that means the new BRD/HDDVD players will not deliver DD5.1 over their optical digital audio outputs.

That's the problem.

So how can this EVER work??? Am I still not understanding something?

DSperber,

Why would they change the behavior for BRD/HD-DVD? I have an HDMI DVD player connected to my XBR960 right now and also an optical cable from the DVD player to my receiver. I get 5.1 audio.

DSperber,

Why would they change the behavior for BRD/HD-DVD? I have an HDMI DVD player connected to my XBR960 right now and also an optical cable from the DVD player to my receiver. I get 5.1 audio.As do all of us!

This is part of the new AACS copy-protection mechanism as I understand things, which is far more intrusive and restrictive for BRD/HDDVD than was the case with SD DVD's. Much debate going on here.

And what I had heard, and which was stated above as well by HDTVFanatic, is that (a) 1080i/1080p HD resolutions will only be delivered to the display device via HDMI and not component (which will potentially be down-rezzed automatically by the player, at the optional discretion and control of the studio which produces the BRD/HDDVD content being played), and (b) delivery of DD5.1 will depend on the device at the other end of the HDMI cable being capable of receiving it through this HDMI (even though it is almost certainly NOT the audio receiver you want to send the digital audio to, which will obviously be connected to the player through the optical/coax digital audio cable and not HDMI).

This is what was stated earlier and that I was trying to confirm that was really true or not true (at least my understanding), because it seems impossible therefore to ever get digital audio to your receiver from the new players... since virtually all (if not all) HDTV's connected via HDMI cannot accept DD5.1.

So, unless I am not understanding how it really will work (remember, no actual players are for sale, and the AACS debate was "resolved" only weeks ago!) it would seem physically impossible to get DD5.1 to your receiver. Surely this can't be right.

Can someone please clarify. Thanks.

I doubt that they wouldn't include an optical out and just have 5.1 through the HDMI, as then the only way to get 5.1 would be to have a HDMI receiver, essentially rendering nearly all current receivers worthless. Now I know there are some minor incompatability issues when new technology is released (having to buy new things to make it work), but to completely alienate so many people would be crazy.

I also recall reading that the new HD players would be component video capable. So then you would have to have a digital out to get 5.1.

Let us know what you find.

If you go on Sony.com, they have a blue ray disc player you can pre-order, for a 1000. It has optical out, so I think that we will connect them just like we do now for 5.1.

No worries.

Kellen

I doubt that they wouldn't include an optical out and just have 5.1 through the HDMI, as then the only way to get 5.1 would be to have a HDMI receiver, essentially rendering nearly all current receivers worthless.Well that's not what's being stated. Obviously, the DD5.1 digital audio output would be presented out of the optical or coax digital audio outputs on the players.

What's being conjectured (I believe) is that the DD5.1 output will not be sent over the optical/coax digital audio output if the display device at the end of the HDMI-to-HDMI cable does not indicate it can accept DD5.1. Instead (I believe) only the 2-channel PCM digital audio will be sent out over the optical/coax outputs.

I know, this seems crazy. Why would the audio capabilities of a display device connected via HDMI, which would almost certainly not be the hardware used to listen to DD5.1 audio, limit what gets sent out over the optical/coax digital audio output path? Why should this happen (except that, remarkably, it really does happen that way today on the SA8300 DVR)? Surely they realize you're going to be sending digital audio to your receiver, not to your TV.

Down-rezzing video over component is one thing. But tampering with the optical/coax digital audio outputs based on the HDMI display device? Why?

And yet...

What Q hasn't grasped yet is the TV will tell the Player that 5.1 audio isn't doable on the TV set, so the player will take the 5.1 down 2.0 on the optical outputs of the player, according to spec as they are now. This is true of most HDTVs now - not just this one.

So... can someone clear up this confusion? I realize this is the XBR960 thread, not the BRD/HDDVD thread, but this digital audio question is relevant here since the XBR960 does not have a DVI connector and hence will be impacted by any rules involved with the mandatory HDMI connection.

You understand it 100% correct DSperber.

If the TV does not have a TV optical passthrough for audio, the HDMI says it cannot handle 5.1, so the BluRay or HD-DVD will kill the optical output or reduce it to 2.0 (if the movie companies have the code set for that movie) and you cannot bypass it.

They expect external hdmi devices built into your 5.1 receiver that are compliant that will take the audio and video and then pass the video on to the TV.

However, there are issues with that and it doesn't work in the first HDMI implemention, of which I *believe* this Sony uses. That is why I originally spoke of a firmware upgrade.

The SA8300 has the bypass feature you noted because of this issue and they figure they have everything under control with 5c.

You wont have that bypass method available on the BluRay and HD-DVD units.

Now, most of the companies, except Warners have said they won't be using the restrictions in the first few releases (read: until your warranty expires or you cannot take the unit back) so many will not even be aware of it until later on when the gotcha happens.

And you are right, it is a mess. Not just for this Sony, but most every HDTV out there.

Many will never find out until they add a 5.1 system.

By that time, it will be too late.

You understand it 100% correct DSperber.Let me see if I really do...

The BRD/HDDVD manufacturers will only provide (a) 1080i/1080p video to AACS-compliant device via HDMI either for direct use or pass-through, and (b) DD5.1 digital audio through the same HDMI cable and simultaneously through optical/coax to a receiver only if the AACS-compliant device connected through HDMI (TV or switch/receiver) indicates it can accept DD5.1 via HDMI, either for direct use or pass-through.

So the expectation is that you will either:

(1) connect the BRD/HDDVD player to an HDTV via HDMI, where the TV has optical pass-through for digital audio and also indicates to the player that it can accept DD5.1 via HDMI. In this case, you can then either (a) connect the optical pass-through digital audio output from the TV (delivered via the HDMI cable from the player) to your receiver, or (b) connect the optical digital audio output from the player directly to your receiver since that connection path is "activated" for DD5.1 once the HDMI path says it can receive DD5.1.

(2) connect the BRD/HDDVD player to a switch/receiver via HDMI, where the switch/receiver indicates it can receive DD5.1 via HDMI and has HDMI pass-through output for video to the HDTV (will a DVI connection also be acceptable from the switch to HDTV?), and possible optical pass-through digital audio (if the device is not a receiver but is a switch) for optical connection to a receiver.

If the HDMI device connected to the BRD/HDDVD player in either approach (1) or (2) indicates it cannot accept DD5.1 over HDMI, then the optical output of the player is either shut down or reverted to 2-channel PCM audio.


And yes, this seemingly crazy and draconian regulation would appear to eliminate the possiblity of using option (2) with currently installed hardware, since probably all or most of the DD5.1 audio receivers/processors currently in use out there in the world right now probably do not have HDMI support as required.

And, since probably none or very few of the HDMI-equipped HDTV's out there indicate that they can accept DD5.1 via HDMI (even though they might have optical digital audio pass-through, as the XBR960 does for possible pass-through of digital audio for firewire-delivered content), it would also appear that option (1) is another impossibility.

Which brings us to conclude that with most currently installed audio/video equipment nobody will be able to utilize DD5.1 from BRD/HDDVD devices. This seems patently impossible to believe, that the manufacturers would actually do this. Seems ridiculous to believe this is their product design.

And yet...


So, have I missed something?

So, have I missed something?

Nope.

Also, remember, the flags must set for that to happen. They may or may not be set at first with all releases, but eventually they will all move to that direction.

Nope.

Also, remember, the flags must set for that to happen. They may or may not be set at first with all releases, but eventually they will all move to that direction.Still seems astonishing that there would be something in the design (initially activated or not) that would potentially eliminate essentially 100% of all currently installed HDTV's and digital audio receivers from the potential marketplace for their new products. As has been pointed out, it seems like suicide to alienate everybody who currently has an HDTV and DD5.1 audio system. Bad enough they couldn't agree on BRD/HDDVD compatibility and implemented potentially forced down-rezzing over component video, and now this? Consumers will not be happy.

I guess the intent is to move toward secure delivery of high-quality video and audio solely across "100% secure (via AACS)" HDMI connections. Unfortunately, this requires users throwing out all current hardware and buying new properly HDMI-equipped AACS-compliant audio and video equipment (with full DD5.1 support via HDMI). Doubtful this will happen in numbers that justify the idea, but maybe they're just crazy paranoid about piracy.

Pretty amazing... if they go through with it.

Considering what we have already seen with mp3s and the like, I wouldn't say they are crazy paranoid. They are being financially responsible, imho.

Do I like it?

No.

It is those that abused the system for the past 10+ years now making us all pay the price of this aggrevation.

Going to night shift monday. I need to be watching my super TV while everyone else is sleeping. I have the best TV money can buy, now I need the best headphones I can buy. My HBR960 rocks!!! What should I buy,
HELP!!!!!
Roger

I need to be watching my super TV while everyone else is sleeping. I have the best TV money can buy, now I need the best headphones I can buy. My HBR960 rocks!!! What should I buyIf you've got the money, the Stax Omega-II system (http://www.yamasinc.com/srs-007.htm) is the best. SR-007 open-back electrostatic headphones, and SRM-007t (tube) headphone amp. These are the best sounding headphones you can buy (around $4k for the system). I've owned the older Omega-I version since 1996, and it's amazing.

I might also suggest considering the purchase of a Pioneer Dolby Headphone unit (about $400), so that you can listen to DD5.1/DTS/DPL digital audio through your new Stax headphones. Read this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=551792) for a complete description of my experience.

Note that I also have a DBX 14/10 Computerized EQ (I'm the king of "they don't make it anymore") to go with my Stax, for 14-band tone control and realtime graphic spectrum analyzer. If you can find one of these on eBay (or it's predecessor the DBX 10/20, which I also own two of for other audio systems in my home) you will have scored nirvana. Currently I see none available, but a 10/20 did just recently get sold last week.

Mark my words: HDDVD and blue ray will fail as movie formats. DVD will be the norm until we have digital streaming high def content.

The list of negatives for the formats are well into the dozens, and the only positive is slightly improved picture quality that only a minute percent of households can take advantage of (going from dvd to hd isn't nearly the jump vhs to dvd was). It was hard convincing consumers to buy into the dvd format, it will be impossible with hd dvd. The formats will be relegated as to nothing more than a technological curiosity, in the same vein as laserdisc and sacd.

Yes, it has HDMI.

Will you be able to view a Blu-Ray in 1080P? No, because the set won't do 1080P.



It should be noted that when the XBR series of SuperFine Pitch televisions were designed in Japan the res was set at 1080 i because that's all that was available content wise.

High end CRT mointors exist in Japan that can resolve over 2000 horizontal lines of resolution. Progressively.The XBR960 could have easily been configured to scan at 1080p but there was no point.

Still 1080i Bluray HD-DVD will look fantastic on the 960

It should be noted that when the XBR series of SuperFine Pitch televisions were designed in Japan the res was set at 1080 i because that's all that was available content wise.

High end CRT mointors exist in Japan that can resolve over 2000 horizontal lines of resolution. Progressively.The XBR960 could have easily been configured to scan at 1080p but there was no point.

Still 1080i Bluray HD-DVD will look fantastic on the 960

I don't pretend to be an expert, but I have to disagree with your comment. The XBR960 cannot resolve the full 1080 lines of resolution. 1080i vs 1080p does not mean that there are more pixels, just that they are shown more often. Secondly, I remember reading that to make the gun that draws the pixels to be fast enough to do progressive rather then interlaced would have been crazy expensive. Even if 1080P was on the horizon, I don't believe it would have been achievable in an affordable CRT set.

electron guns send beams that travel at over 160,000 miles per hour .Fast enough to paint at 1080p if Sony wanted too.

No point in 2002 when the Xbr910 was in development my friend

Mark my words: HDDVD and blue ray will fail as movie formats. DVD will be the norm until we have digital streaming high def content.

The list of negatives for the formats are well into the dozens, and the only positive is slightly improved picture quality that only a minute percent of households can take advantage of (going from dvd to hd isn't nearly the jump vhs to dvd was). It was hard convincing consumers to buy into the dvd format, it will be impossible with hd dvd. The formats will be relegated as to nothing more than a technological curiosity, in the same vein as laserdisc and sacd.

Once I saw a DVD picture for the first time I knew that VHS and Laser Disc were dead. The jump in picture quality was like night and day. However, I also wonder how much more a difference HDDVD will be compared to standard DVD? Most of today's DVD players produce fantasticly clear pictures with wonderful color and detail. The gap can't be as big compared to the earlier formats.

I don't think the hd-dvd will be a big jump over the standard dvd. Now I haven't seen any hd-dvds but right now, even EDTVs and HDTVs do not differ much in viewing, in spec, yes but not in terms of regular viewing.

I don't think the hd-dvd will be a big jump over the standard dvd. Now I haven't seen any hd-dvds but right now, even EDTVs and HDTVs do not differ much in viewing, in spec, yes but not in terms of regular viewing.
The local BB has a HD-DVD Player and Demo HD-DVD from Sony, (prototype for demo only and not for sale) hooked to 60" SXRD, and I have to tell you, it is the most lifelike realistic picture I have ever seen. In any other setting you would think you are looking through your window and not at a picture on a TV. It was absolutely awesome and the most 3D like I've ever seen from any TV.

Hi all,

I'm still not sure what to do.

Over the past few months I've heard from so many who had their sets professionally callibrated, citing the beautiful picture they had prior to this investment and the even better picture they had after the configurations were done. Are there any in this forum who had their 960s callibrated but found little, if any, improvement to justify such an investment? We're very happy with the picture quality of our 960 (also see below) and do not wish to pay $200+ to confirm everything was optiminly set to begin with. I realize technicians often rush through final inspections but also feel many do take the time to properly callibrate the sets before leaving the factory.

I was in a local electronics store to see the newest generation of Plasmas and LCDs. For a change the video feed was equally distributed with color, contrasts, etc being just about even. While the performance of most were impressive no matter how large a screen each lacked a certain punch found in the 960 (and usually showrooms over-adjust settings to create an illusion of a mind-blowing picture).

Had I seen any Plasma or LCD of equal or better quality I would not hesitate to have my set callibrated since the 960 is regarded the standard bearer for High Definition. This was not the case - even the best was slightly below the 960s picture.

Thanks in advance,
Joe

Had I seen any Plasma or LCD of equal or better quality I would not hesitate to have my set callibrated since the 960 is regarded the standard bearer for High Definition. This was not the case - even the best was slightly below the 960s picture.

Joe

Yep, - though I wouldn't have used the word slightly

Yep, - though I wouldn't have used the word slightly
Hi William,

LOL, only used the word "slightly" so not to sound too pompous!

- Joe

What Q hasn't grasped yet is the TV will tell the Player that 5.1 audio isn't doable on the TV set, so the player will take the 5.1 down 2.0 on the optical outputs of the player, according to spec as they are now.Well, upon further research, and information presented in this thread on HD-DVD (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=640949) which admittedly may still contain much speculation, I'm not sure the BRD or HDDVD players will actually take DD/DTS 5.1 audio down to 2.0 on the optical outputs. That does, indeed, seem unjustified and unwarranted since even today's current SD DVD players and content provide that DD/DTS 5.1 audio over optical.

I believe that what seems to be a more accurate description of what's upcoming is that the optical/coax digital audio path will ONLY carry the conventional DD/DTS 5.1 or 2-channel PCM digital audio tracks, and not any of the new HD lossy/lossless codec data. This newer format digital audio will ONLY be available over HDMI 1.1 or higher connections, to one degree or another (depending on HDMI 1.1 or 1.3, for now). Yes, this will require new receivers or HDTV display devices in order to take advantage of the new lossy/lossless HD audio codecs from DD/DTS, but that does not seem unreasonable.

But the optical path will present either down-conversions to conventional DD/DTS of the newer format data (but at a higher bitrate than existing DD/DTS tracks), or just the conventional DD/DTS multi-channel tracks which are required to be present on the new BRD/HDDVD content. However I don't see any mention of forcing 2-channel PCM stereo over the optical path under any circumstances.

And so the many millions of currently installed existing digital audio receivers will NOT be obsoleted. They will simply not be able to take advantage of the new HD audio formats. But they will still be able to deliver DD/DTS digital audio from the new BRD/HDDVD content, as they do today from current SD DVD content.

Am I off base or correct?

Well, upon further research, and information presented in this thread on HD-DVD (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=640949) which admittedly may still contain much speculation, I'm not sure the BRD or HDDVD players will actually take DD/DTS 5.1 audio down to 2.0 on the optical outputs. That does, indeed, seem unjustified and unwarranted since even today's current SD DVD players and content provide that DD/DTS 5.1 audio over optical.

I believe that what seems to be a more accurate description of what's upcoming is that the optical/coax digital audio path will ONLY carry the conventional DD/DTS 5.1 or 2-channel PCM digital audio tracks, and not any of the new HD lossy/lossless codec data. This newer format digital audio will ONLY be available over HDMI 1.1 or higher connections, to one degree or another (depending on HDMI 1.1 or 1.3, for now). Yes, this will require new receivers or HDTV display devices in order to take advantage of the new lossy/lossless HD audio codecs from DD/DTS, but that does not seem unreasonable.

But the optical path will present either down-conversions to conventional DD/DTS of the newer format data (but at a higher bitrate than existing DD/DTS tracks), or just the conventional DD/DTS multi-channel tracks which are required to be present on the new BRD/HDDVD content. However I don't see any mention of forcing 2-channel PCM stereo over the optical path under any circumstances.

And so the many millions of currently installed existing digital audio receivers will NOT be obsoleted. They will simply not be able to take advantage of the new HD audio formats. But they will still be able to deliver DD/DTS digital audio from the new BRD/HDDVD content, as they do today from current SD DVD content.

Am I off base or correct?

Off base. The chip in the TV controls ALL DIGITAL OUTPUTS on the player over the HDMI connection.

Does anyone know of any "New In Box" KD-34XBR960 sets in the Seattle area??
I was out looking today after I had called around to see who had what... and of course a couple of them lied and said they had one,,, only to find out it was a 970 when I got there. I found a couple of 960's at Frys in Renton for $1299 and the manager would have discounted it, but I didn't buy one because:
#1...they were floor models, #2 the cabinets were beat up and #3 who knows how many thousands of hours they've been on display, turned on?
I wish the 970 had the better tube in it, because it is cheaper and more readily available, but I found the 960 clearly had superior picture quality just as some people have testified to here in the forum. Even my wife (who is usually not too picky about stuff like this) said that the 960 blew everything else on the shelf away!!!!
So, I will continue my search for a KD-34XBR960N or no N.
I just hope I don't have to drive to another state to get it and I don't want to order it online for obvious reasons,, but I may have to.
Bye the way,, I forgot, does the N designate the anti-reflective coating?
If it has the N on the number does it have the anti-reflective coating or not??

Off base. The chip in the TV controls ALL DIGITAL OUTPUTS on the player over the HDMI connection.Seems to be in conflict with the discussion of HDDVD and BRD described in the "Battle Of The Formats" recap article by Danny Richelieu that appeared in the January 2006 article of Widescreen Review.

For example, quoting from page 66 in the discussion of DTS HD:

"If you currently own an A/V receiver and you're very pleased with it, you can connect the S/PDIF output from your new player into your A/V receiver and you'll get the same DTS that you get today, except it'll be higher quality, because most of the people have been bandwidth limited on DVD, and most of the titles have been 754 kbps. Going forward, you'll be able to get 1.5 Mbps DTS over that S/PDIF. DTS HD also offers lossless. Now, you're going to have to upgrade your receiver to get one that has the new HDMI connector on it. Then you'll connect the HDMI connector out of the player into that A/V receiver, and you'll cover the entire bitstream bit-for-bit accurate."

This certainly seems common-sensical (rather than suicidal) on the part of the manufacturers, to at least retain compatibility with current DVD players and home theater receivers and systems insofar as continuing to support current multi-channel DTS/DD unimpaired out of the new players and content. Requiring new receivers, with HDMI 1.1+ connectivity, in order to handle the newer HD audio formats, does not seem unreasonable.

Anyone have good results with HDMI players with the 960? I just bought a Sony 75H and found the picture to be considerably softer and lacking detail @ 720p/1080i compared to my Sony 575P outputting 480i.

Anyone have good results with HDMI players with the 960? I just bought a Sony 75H and found the picture to be considerably softer and lacking detail @ 720p/1080i compared to my Sony 575P outputting 480i.

I have my Onkyo DVSP1000 connected to the XBR960 via HDMI and set to 1080i and the picture looks HD-like, depending on the quality of the actual source material.

Anyone have good results with HDMI players with the 960? I just bought a Sony 75H and found the picture to be considerably softer and lacking detail @ 720p/1080i compared to my Sony 575P outputting 480i.

There is a lot of variables to that, Either your tv does a better job at deinterlacing or your DVD player does,and it depends like Q said from the source material which would be the DVD itself if it is of High Quality.Many DVD's are very good quality but there is still a majority that are'nt mastered well and basically the studios did a sloppy job making the transfer of film to Disc.

It's best though to have the DVD player do the deinterlacing though since it keeps the signal in the digital domain.Keep in mind also that DVD is only 480i so you can only do so much to make it better.

You may want to return that Upconverting player if you don't see any benefit,i had first hand experiance on the highly regarded OPPO and while it's Deinterlacing is bar none the best out there for it's price i found it's upconversion lacking,there was'nt that much difference from 480p on my Sony 480p player.Like you i want High quality Content and it looks like i'm just going to have to wait for the High Def DVD's coming soon.

I can live with Regualr DVD for a while sure it's not as sharp and defined as HD,but it's good enough for now.In fact there are some DVD's that don't look much different than the HD versions, The Fifth Element :Superbit edition is a good example of how well a DVD can look.I've seen the HD version and it does'nt look that much different than the DVD.

Right now i prefur DVD's at 480P since it's one of my tv's Native resolutions and it's best to feed the tv a native resolution that way there is no scaling issues.So even though you have an upconverting player you may run into scaling issues unless you have a player with a high quality deinterlacer like a Faroudja chipset. I look at it like this...DVD is as good as it get's!

Does anyone know of any "New In Box" KD-34XBR960 sets in the Seattle area??
I was out looking today after I had called around to see who had what... and of course a couple of them lied and said they had one,,, only to find out it was a 970 when I got there. I found a couple of 960's at Frys in Renton for $1299 and the manager would have discounted it, but I didn't buy one because:
#1...they were floor models, #2 the cabinets were beat up and #3 who knows how many thousands of hours they've been on display, turned on?
I wish the 970 had the better tube in it, because it is cheaper and more readily available, but I found the 960 clearly had superior picture quality just as some people have testified to here in the forum. Even my wife (who is usually not too picky about stuff like this) said that the 960 blew everything else on the shelf away!!!!
So, I will continue my search for a KD-34XBR960N or no N.
I just hope I don't have to drive to another state to get it and I don't want to order it online for obvious reasons,, but I may have to.
Bye the way,, I forgot, does the N designate the anti-reflective coating?
If it has the N on the number does it have the anti-reflective coating or not??

I picked one up a couple of months ago. Best Buy didn't have any in stock, but had a lot in their warehouse. Try magnolia Hi-Fi. You might get lucky with video only, as they had them on sale for cheap, but were sold out last I checked. Same with the sony outlet store in tulalip (seattle prime outlets), they had the 960 in the three digit price range, but last I checked they were out. Perhaps they might have the 34xs955? Circuit City is out of stock in Bellevue for sure.

i just wanted to chime in on this issue that some people are noticing. i also notice it quite frequently. i notice it on all sources and its most apparent at night when my room is pitch dark aside from the tv. i have noticed it particularly in the godfather movies where there are a lot of dark scenes with a light or two in the background. it definitely seems to be a phosphor issue, as opposed to video processing. i can tell because at night, when the room is totally dark, i can turn off the tv and still see the outline of the images on the tv. and to be sure its not my eyes playing tricks, the same thing happens when i close my eyes and then turn off the set and then open them immediately. guess i'll have to just live with it though as it seems its not just a defective set. the picture aside from that is really amazing.

It will go away once you have owned the set for a while..I have owned my 34" sony for 3 years now and i don't have any issues with trailing what so ever.I noticed it at first like you but once the tv ages it goes away trust me.

Has anyone ever seen a trailing silk-screen screen-door rainbow before? I thought I saw one when watching "In search of Big Foot's direct-view CRT" but somebody dropped beer on my glasses when I was trying to check out the lower viewing angle from the floor!

^^^
Artwood strikes again!! :D

Seems to be in conflict with the discussion of HDDVD and BRD described in the "Battle Of The Formats" recap article by Danny Richelieu that appeared in the January 2006 article of Widescreen Review.

For example, quoting from page 66 in the discussion of DTS HD:

"If you currently own an A/V receiver and you're very pleased with it, you can connect the S/PDIF output from your new player into your A/V receiver and you'll get the same DTS that you get today, except it'll be higher quality, because most of the people have been bandwidth limited on DVD, and most of the titles have been 754 kbps. Going forward, you'll be able to get 1.5 Mbps DTS over that S/PDIF. DTS HD also offers lossless. Now, you're going to have to upgrade your receiver to get one that has the new HDMI connector on it. Then you'll connect the HDMI connector out of the player into that A/V receiver, and you'll cover the entire bitstream bit-for-bit accurate."

This certainly seems common-sensical (rather than suicidal) on the part of the manufacturers, to at least retain compatibility with current DVD players and home theater receivers and systems insofar as continuing to support current multi-channel DTS/DD unimpaired out of the new players and content. Requiring new receivers, with HDMI 1.1+ connectivity, in order to handle the newer HD audio formats, does not seem unreasonable.


As I stated earlier, you can connect to the Receiver if it has HDMI 1.1 and it will take that as the device to send 5.1 out and pass the video through the receiver to the TV.

However, the question then becomes will the 960 support HDMI 1.1 as 1.0 will not work and there is confusion on if the 960 has 1.0 or 1.1 support as it was one of the very first devices with a HDMI device - the 910 prior to it had DVI.

As also stated, a firmware upgrade could possibily update it to 1.1 if it is at 1.0 as most suspect, but will a firmware upgrade come?

Regardless, you will need a Receiver with a HDMI passthrough as stated in the article you posted. And many of the first HDMI Receivers, just like TV's only had HDMI 1.0 in them.

I have my Onkyo DVSP1000

.

Aha! :)

As I stated earlier, you can connect to the Receiver if it has HDMI 1.1 and it will take that as the device to send 5.1 out and pass the video through the receiver to the TV.

However, the question then becomes will the 960 support HDMI 1.1 as 1.0 will not work and there is confusion on if the 960 has 1.0 or 1.1 support as it was one of the very first devices with a HDMI device - the 910 prior to it had DVI.

Regardless, you will need a Receiver with a HDMI passthrough as stated in the article you posted. And many of the first HDMI Receivers, just like TV's only had HDMI 1.0 in them.Still not the point I'm trying to make.

My point relates to the use of "conventional" S/PDIF (i.e. OPTICAL or COAX) digital audio connection method from the new BRD/HDDVD players to an existing current "conventional" receiver that probably does not have HDMI connectivity of any level. Say a Yamaha RX-V3300, for example. Actually, this discussion concerns the optical/coax connection method in general, even if a newer receiver is involved which might also have an HDMI connection path available.

And the general consensus of forum contributors (as well as the Widescreen Review article) is that using this "conventional" optical/coax digital audio connection method between the new players and a receiver will continue to provide old-fashioned multi-channel digital audio processing of old-fashioned multi-channel DD/DTS digital audio streams (though perhaps at a higher bitrate than is currently available from today's SD DVD's).

It is 100% agreed by all that in order to take advantage of any of the newer HD digital audio codec formats (lossy or lossless), that HDMI 1.1 or higher connectivity paths will be required in order to deliver that new format datastream from a new player to a new HDMI-enabled receiver. This is because of two reasons, namely (1) only newer receivers will provide decoding ability for the new format HD audio datastreams, and (2) the new format HD audio datastreams are only going to be passed over the HDMI 1.1+ cable and not over conventional optical/coax cables.

Now as to how the XBR960 (with its [likely] HDMI 1.0 connector) will fit into this, it seems to me that it will NOT have any effect on the audio consequences over the S/PDIF optical/coax connections from the new players to existing receivers. As I stated above, these paths will continue to provide digital audio streams with today's multi-channel DD/DTS format unimpaired and not re-encoded into 2-channel versions... having nothing to do with the new HD audio formats which will never be passed over optical/coax under any circumstances. You will not lose conventional DD/DTS audio from the new BRD/HDDVD content if you only have a conventional receiver connected via conventional optical/coax to the new player. And this is the case no matter how you have your display device (e.g. XBR960) connected to the new player and no matter if HDMI 1.0 is used for this video connection. The optical/coax digital audio path out of the new players remains exactly as it is in today's SD DVD players, providing conventional multi-channel DD/DTS digital audio to a conventional receiver.

I'm speculating that the intended configuration for "optimal" audio results with a new BRD/HDDVD player and XBR960 would be (a) an HDMI 1.1+ connection from the player to a newly purchased and properly HDMI-enabled receiver in order to take advantage of the new HD audio formats, and then (b) an HDMI 1.0 (probably) connection from the receiver to the XBR960 in order to provide 1080i video to the set. This does not require any firmware upgrade in the XBR960, as (a) the set is capable of receiving 1080i over HDMI 1.0 today, and (b) using this connection sequence the set does not prevent new HD audio from being handled by the new receiver which is properly HDMI 1.1+ connected to the new player.

Alternatively, one could connect the new player to the XBR960 via HDMI 1.0 and still get 1080i video displayed, while at the same time connecting the new player to an existing audio receiver using conventional S/PDIF (optical or coax) method which would provide conventional multi-channel DD/DTS digital audio (perhaps at a higher bitrate) through the existing current home theater sound system. No new HD audio formats possible using this method, but it would be exactly the same multi-channel DD/DTS audio (maybe improved a bit) as you get from today's SD DVD's coupled with 1080i video (as is available today from today's upconverting SD DVD players) but from "native" 1080 BRD/HDDVD content.

It's not going to work long term over the optical output like you think. Even the article you posted appreared to speak to that fact.

I can't tell you more than I have already told you.

Everywhere I look I continue to read more and more about things being tightened down more and more.

Take a look at cdrinfo.com on their story about the 6 month grace period for AACS and it should really give you shivers when you realize how tied down this is.

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=16670

If you can't understand what that is saying, it will be virtually impossible for some of the Chinese duplicators to make Blu-Ray movies for the street as the media won't record without the proper codes in them.

And then last Thursday:

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/4040/hddvd5qk.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I'm sorry if you and others hope for the best, but that's not what being said.

Still not seeing where they say they will downsample the sound to stereo. On that page you posted, it just says that it requires the appropriate digital connections.

Perhaps all they are saying is that you must have a digital connection (optical, digital coax) to take advantage of these features.

On the same site, at here (http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=16666) they say that the new toshiba player will continue to send out 5.1 via the digital out OR you can use the HDMI

Hello, this is my first post. I received my brand new KD-34XBR960N TV about a week ago.

I am enjoying it, however, I have a couple of issues. First, my dad loves to keep the TV on the "Vivid" setting as colors look the boldest when at the level. I think the TV's tube life will be reduced significantly as the picture value is set to "MAX" when in "Vivid" mode.

Also, I think the TV is great, but it just isn't sharp. It doesn't look as crisp as I thought it would. Would an ISF calibration make any difference?

Thanks for reading this and I look forward to your responses!

I would definitely turn Vivid off, eso as the tube is new and breaking in. Also, I turned Sharpness to near 0 and clarity improved. take some time trying different settings, but running Vivid and high picture settings is not good for the set IMO.

For those of you still looking to pick up a 34XBR960, check out Fry's Electronics. Might be able to get one heck of a deal on close out.

(For practical reasons, looks like my GDM-F520 will be my last tube. Alas...)


Seriously though, I have heard from several sources that Fry's has a reputation of repackaging returned merchandise and selling it as new. Also, I don't think their sales people are very knowledgeable and that probably also goes true for the people handling the TV sets in the warehouse. I am not sure I would buy something as delicate as an XBR960 from them.

Fry's quoted me $150 for a 5-year, in-house, extended warranty for this set !! I am not sure I would get quality customer service for this price. When I asked them what would happen if they could not fix the set they said they would replace it with something comparable at that price. I don't think Fry's will be carrying XBR960's in 5 years so what would they repalce it with, I asked? They said the 970's are just coming out and since it is a newer model that's probably what I would get as a repalcement. I tried to explain to the sales guy that the 960 is superior to the 970 but he insisted that the higher model # meant it was a better unit.

Pacific Sales quoted almost $350 for the same plan for the KD-34XS955N but they have a muchbetter reputation for customer service. Unfortunately they would have to order the 955N so I would probably end up paying more for the 955 than for the 960!!

Has anyone had any good or bad experiences with HDTV's purchased at Fry's Electronics that they would like to share with the rest of us? Thanks in advance!!

Lou

Hello, this is my first post. I received my brand new KD-34XBR960N TV about a week ago.

I am enjoying it, however, I have a couple of issues. First, my dad loves to keep the TV on the "Vivid" setting as colors look the boldest when at the level. I think the TV's tube life will be reduced significantly as the picture value is set to "MAX" when in "Vivid" mode.

Also, I think the TV is great, but it just isn't sharp. It doesn't look as crisp as I thought it would. Would an ISF calibration make any difference?

Thanks for reading this and I look forward to your responses!

Change the setting when he's not looking and this is an HDTV if you want a great picture you need to feed it a great source.

I bought one of the last ones at Fry's in Burbank, CA and had them deliver it. The box was dented but the TV in the foam was pristine and works perfectly (except for those normal focus convergence errors that I gotta handle -- and learn the Service Menu!) I'm a happy camper.

-Christopher Johnson

In response to your question big_lou, I just bought a 960N from the Concord, Ca. Fry's. I had purchased one from ABT but it arrived damaged and will be picked up tomorrow. I found a new replacement at Fry's. My experience from purchase to delivery was great. The item was indeed new, in the box, and the delivery was far more adept than the inept white glove service provided by ABT. I realize that this is only a single incidence among many, but at least I can attest that they're not all bad.

Just purchased an 34XBR960. While this isn't a strict 960 question, I thought people here might know. The one I purchased (last new-in-box one that they had) had a box that was pretty banged up. When they opened it up so I could take a look, I found that the styrofoam for the left-front corner was broken into several pieces. The tv itself looked fine, but I haven't tried turning it on yet, since it won't be delivered until Friday. If there is no physical damage to the exterior of the tv, is there likely to be any damage to the interior components? How can I test whether there is damage? Other than checking to see whether the tv turns on and the picture looks ok, of course. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.

Just purchased an 34XBR960. While this isn't a strict 960 question, I thought people here might know. The one I purchased (last new-in-box one that they had) had a box that was pretty banged up. When they opened it up so I could take a look, I found that the styrofoam for the left-front corner was broken into several pieces. The tv itself looked fine, but I haven't tried turning it on yet, since it won't be delivered until Friday. If there is no physical damage to the exterior of the tv, is there likely to be any damage to the interior components? How can I test whether there is damage? Other than checking to see whether the tv turns on and the picture looks ok, of course. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.

These things are as robust as hell. The components can't be dislodged because they are all soldered down to the circuit boards. The aperture grill is high tensile alloy -you'd need a significant fall to break one of the filaments. The glass was developed by NASA and can resist huge forces before cracking ( Sony licensed the tech for its FD superfine pitch tubes from NASA)

If the electron guns were somehow thrown out youd see it as soon as u power on.

Turn it on . If it looks fine everything is ok and enjoy the show.

Hello, this is my first post. I received my brand new KD-34XBR960N TV about a week ago.

I am enjoying it, however, I have a couple of issues. First, my dad loves to keep the TV on the "Vivid" setting as colors look the boldest when at the level. I think the TV's tube life will be reduced significantly as the picture value is set to "MAX" when in "Vivid" mode.

Also, I think the TV is great, but it just isn't sharp. It doesn't look as crisp as I thought it would. Would an ISF calibration make any difference?

Thanks for reading this and I look forward to your responses!

Congratulations on your 960, and for being one of the last to be able to purchase it brand new!

Your family would not be able to even come near to appreciating the pristine quality of the picture with it set in the vivid mode and picture adjusted to max. And it will decrease the life span of the tube (and while your dad might love seeing the color at its strongest it is way too much and un-natural).

Final adjustments depend upon taste of the individual. Most on this forum use the "pro" mode with picture set to high 30s or low 40s, brightness in the low 30s,
low sharpness, tinue (hue) near or slightly below neutral and medium color.

A great aid to set your TV properly would be to catch the HD test patterns run on INHD every Saturday morning at 7:00 AM Eastern. This is about a 15 minute program which will guide through proper adjustments for picture, brightness, color and tint.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'll try the setttings tonight when I get back home.

Does anyone recommend an ISF calibration on this set?

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'll try the setttings tonight when I get back home.

Does anyone recommend an ISF calibration on this set?


Are you kidding? It pretty much goes without saying. YES!


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=561596
^^
See what you think after reading some of that.