The Official Kd-34xbr960 Thread [Text View] - Page 20

DSperber

11-14-06, 08:02 PM

This is really a TV for HD videophiles.Agreed.

I find it astonishing that someone would buy the finest HD-CRT ever built which [once tweaked] provides the most remarkable and gorgeous and realistic HD picture possible, and then complain because 480i SD content looks poorer on the set than were its expectations.

Quite frankly, I have a [1996-vintage] 35" Mits CS35803 on my bedroom wall, right next to a 34" XBR960, both fed for SD from D* (and S-video to both, from two separate Hughes E45 receivers). The XBR960 is "tweaked", and I run with DRC=PROGRESSIVE. And I will tell you, there is no comparison in the pictures on the two sets. The XBR960 is the hands-down winner, even in this 480i SD analog world.

I think the secret might be in the "tweaking". I do recall that when I first got the set (back in March 2005) I too was disappointed in its 480i/SD presentation, and felt that my other two Sony Trinitron sets (27" XBR and 13" XBR) both provided much better looking pictures. The Mits picture is different than a Sony picture, so I tried to limit my comparison to just my other Sony sets.

However now that I have "tweaked" (resulting in monstrous improvements in HD quality, as well as SD quality), and with a high-quality SD source (D* satellite), I must say that I no longer have complaints about the SD picture quality on my XBR960 on the rare occasion when I actually watch SD content on it. All of my original impressions have been erased with the new-found quality [resulting from "tweaks"]. It certainly would help if the factory-provided settings from Sony would reflect something closer to what most of us out here have done.

Of course I don't play video games (and therefore don't use the XBR960 as a monitor for that purpose), and perhaps 99.5% of the time only watch 16x9 HD shows on the XBR960 (where it is obviously in a class by itself). I use my other TVs for 4:3 SD viewing. And 480p DVD's look gorgeous on the XBR960 (I have that input set to DRC=CineMotion).

But... to each his own. Let him take it back to the store if he is not happy. Something else may be more suitable to his specific needs. He may someday realize that if a 34" set is what was right for him, that he's lost the absolute best 34" HD picture he might ever find.

nabiki87

11-14-06, 10:23 PM

What are these tweaks? I've messed with allt he settings as much as I can, and they do nothing for the jaggies in games, or the overall blurriness of, well, everything that's not HD.

If I could get even a small reason to keep this thing, then I would. I'm not looking forward to moving it again :P If it seems like I've given up on it, I haven't. I've spent most of my time today after work looking around the internet for anything about this, but if this is the best it's gonna get for SDTV, then I can't justify spending the money on this one.

DSperber

11-14-06, 11:13 PM

What are these tweaks? I've messed with allt he settings as much as I can, and they do nothing for the jaggies in games, or the overall blurriness of, well, everything that's not HD.Well, not to frighten you off but the primary "tweaks" thread is this one (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=531494). And it's only 72 pages long with 2140 posts! Probably considerably more to plow through than you had hoped for.

But it is just about entirely devoted to getting the maximum out of your Sony TV, especially the XBR960. So if you're a serious HDTV lover and own one of these high-end Sony CRT's, the information contained there is invaluable. I know it was for me.

However to focus on what really did it for me, as far as adjustments, here's a summary:

(1) After taking delivery and being unhappy with both HD and SD (lots of geometry and curvature problems, convergence problems, etc.), I called Sony to get a factory technician to pay me a visit to do whatever he needed to do. This was free since the set was under warranty. The guy got into the service menu and did what I now know to be minimal adjustments, all of which in total did not accomplish much. He finally declared "it's good enough", and "it's within factory spec", and said he was leaving.

(2) Not happy, I called Sony again and they told me to call one of their local authorized service providers and they gave me three in my area to call. The first one was unintelligible on the phone so I hung up. The second one was nearby, spoke English, and could come out in nothing flat. I said fine. Turns out this guy was a genius, and very competent at using permalloy magnets (placed on the back of the picture tube) to compensate for vertical convergence problems that cannot be adjusted with the service menu functions (which only address horizontal convergence problems). So not only did he address my convergence problems, but the magnets also greatly helped my "linearity" issues (i.e. curvature and bowing). He actually spent about 2 hours before running out of magnets and promised to come back later in the week with another supply. That he did, and the job was now finally finished. Again, all at no expense to me.

(3) With my most significant and severe basic factory-installed problems almost perfectly addressed by the second tech, I now read the above-mentioned "service menu" thread, especially the posts and attachments that provided a complete display of all service menu items and descriptions, including their factory default values as well as "recommended" tweaks. It was now time for me to insert my own adjustments, including things like overscan and color (i.e. red-push"). I used the "Digital Video Essentials" DVD as my test patterns (although it is 480p, its results can certainly be used for 720p and 1080i as an excellent starting point). I also segregated my inputs, with 480i SD on S-video and INPUT1/3, DVD 480p on INPUT5, and 720p/1080i DVR/D-VHS on INPUT6. Note that I did not use DVI/HDMI/firewire as input to the XBR960. My experiments indicated virtually zero difference in picture quality from any of these connections over component video, and my Zektor 4-to-1 component video switch gave me what I needed for my multiple 720p/1080i HD sources. This segregation of "source" inputs also gave me maximum flexibility in tweaking the XBR960 by "source" and not trying to optimize the set for many different source characteristics on a single INPUT.

But in fact, I think it was probably the overscan adjustments (horizontal and vertical size and position) and other geometry settings, through the service menu, which had the most significant effect on SD. Turns out the factory overscan is much too high, meaning the image is "stretched" vertically and horizontally to fill out the screen after cropping out about 5% (or more) around all four edges of the broadcast image. This "magnification" exaggerates anomalies and imperfections, especially visible in SD content. By reducing overscan (to maybe 1-2% tops) not only do you now see almost all of what the broadcasters are transmitting but the video image is "de-magnified" and reduced, and things (like jaggies) get smoothed out dramatically. Everything looks much purer and cleaner. The geometry adjustments also include moving the left/right edges for 4:3 content and 16:9 content as well as the top and bottom of the screen, which greatly affects the aspect ratio and apparent proportions of displayed figures. Humans with fat heads or skinny heads or squat or elongated bodies do not look human. So not only did all this work greatly help SD quality (especially visible with Guide/Menu 480i-graphics generated by outboard devices like VCR's, DVR's and satellite receivers) but it also greatly helped HD quality. 1080i HD content now looks like 35mm film... absolutely real and pure. And humans look real. The super-fine detail is astonishing. You simply can't see a pixel or a scan line. It doesn't look like TV.

Second big adjustment (in the user menu) was setting SHARPNESS=MIN for the HD inputs, and something around 19 for SD inputs. Of course it goes without saying that MODE=PRO (instead of VIVID) is required, to eliminate Sony factory presets and allow proper color/brightness/contrast adjustment using DVE (as mentioned above) for each input. You can find my other settings earlier in this thread (as well as some other threads). While a fine starting point, they are specific to my set and my input source devices of course, and not necessarily guaranteed to work in general for others. But edges (especially HD) are now perfectly smooth and there is no "dot crawl". With high quality SD sources you can use DRC=PROGRESSIVE (or CINEMOTION for some content) and things will smooth out even more.

Third big adjustment, "red push" elimination (in the service menu). For me, even after the basic user-menu picture adjustments using DVE test patterns, this particular service menu tweak produced absolutely 100% human-like skin color. The visual effect is dramatic when watching shows like "Leno", "SNL", "Rome", etc. Absolutely perfect color, and it cannot be done in the user menu alone. Four service menu items to be adjusted, dramatic effect.

Granted, my concern was primarily for HD content since I don't watch SD content on this set. I have other SD tv's for that purpose. But the net result of my efforts (especially "shrinking" the 480i SD picture) is that I LOVE my XBR960! Especially how it displays HD.

P.S. - One final comment. My PC (in the same room as the XBR960) has an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro video card, which has two outputs one of which is DVI. The ATI video drivers now support connection of this DVI head to a 60hz HDTV as a second (or primary, if you want that) monitor. While the current drivers now support direct DVI-to-DVI or DVI-to-HDMI connection, when I was doing my research they only supported a component video connection. So I bought a DVI-to-component adapter from ATI, and a long (30 feet) component video cable. Then I connected my video card to the XBR960 (on INPUT6, via Zektor switch) as monitor #2... configured on the PC as 1080i, 1920x1080 resolution (fully supported by the ATI drivers). Next, I fired up "DisplayMate for Windows, Video Edition" on my PC and routed the displayed test patterns to the XBR960. I then proceded to do some further fine tuning and tweaking (of geometry and overscan, mostly) at this 1080i resolution that I was not able to really do on INPUT5 when I was using DVE from my 480p DVD player. I was actually surprised at how different "real" things then looked at 720p/1080i from before this 1080i-based tuneup.

Bottom line: Sony has not done a great job delivering a videophile-acceptable HDTV out-of-the-box in the case of the XBR960. But with patience, some factory-authorized (and free) service help if necessary to get you past some otherwise unfixable problems, and the support and guidance of HDTV lovers on this forum during your own tuning/tweaking adventures, you will likely be VERY satisfied with your XBR960 acquisition... if you love HDTV. This set is truly "reference quality" for HDTV. Unfortunately it is so good that it really showcases the weaknesses of SD, especially with a not so terrific OTA or cable SD source.

jpl3447

11-14-06, 11:24 PM

In addition to what DSperber outlined above I found this article (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7152546&&#post7152546) within the service codes thread to be useful for tweaking SD broadcasts. At least it is for 480i, I am not sure about NTSC which is probably what you are receiving. In any event, after adjusting canvas/overscan and the RYR~GYB values as well as a few other things I am sure (I kept a log of what I was doing) my SD broadcasts come in quite satisfactorily and I forget that I am not watching a digital channel sometimes.

Spokker

11-16-06, 04:54 AM

Turns out this guy was a genius, and very competent at using permalloy magnets (placed on the back of the picture tube) to compensate for vertical convergence problems that cannot be adjusted with the service menu functions (which only address horizontal convergence problems).
That's cool that you got them to do that for free. Nobody I called knew what I was talking about when I mentioned magnets.

DSperber

11-16-06, 04:52 PM

That's cool that you got them to do that for free. Nobody I called knew what I was talking about when I mentioned magnets.You spoke to a Sony authorized service provider? I'd call Sony back and complain, and ask them to give you some more names of COMPETENT service technicians in your area.

If you are still under warranty you should not give up and it should still be free to you. Just keep bulling your way up the phone network, asking to speak to supervisors, managers, VP's, etc., until the proper techinician comes out to repair your set acceptably.

drkashner

11-17-06, 10:44 AM

To DSperber,

I just wanted to thank you for the step by step instructions over on the Sony service codes forum to correct overscan on my 960. I have been tempted before to go into the service menu, but didn't want to screw it up. The steps were very easy to follow and I think my HD and SD picture looks alot better. The horizontal adjustment was way off. I can now see all of the ABC-HD logo, before I only got AB . Thanks again

jamesflames

11-17-06, 04:24 PM

I had the problem with the 960 not always displaying sound and picture when powering on. The techs came out a few times, with the latest change being the Q-Box. I've had the tv back for about 2 weeks and so far it's displayed sound and picture every time. The problem is I don't hear the tv degaussing when it's powered on and off.

Spokker

11-17-06, 05:05 PM

If you are still under warranty you should not give up and it should still be free to you. Just keep bulling your way up the phone network, asking to speak to supervisors, managers, VP's, etc., until the proper techinician comes out to repair your set acceptably.
I gave up because the warranty card says it doesn't cover set up adjustments. It just sounds like you got a tech who was willing to do the work.

Who serviced yours? I live relatively close to Marina Del Rey, CA. Maybe I can talk to them.

DSperber

11-17-06, 05:16 PM

Who serviced yours? I live relatively close to Marina Del Rey, CA. Maybe I can talk to them.Just exactly one year ago, you posted a similar question and I responded in this post, in this thread. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6602418&&#post6602418)

I don't know if you are still under warranty today (so that you could plead with Sony to authorize a Sony-paid visit from a local authorized service provider), but even if you have to pay for it yourself I'm sure you would be happy with the results.

I argued with Sony that this was not "subjective adjustments", but that the set had come from the factory with numerous serious artifacts and visual anomalies that made it unacceptable, and as a "new out of the box" set should not have been so defective in factory-provided adjustments.

Remember... this is not an ISF tuneup. It's a convergence/geometry adjustment, mostly through magnets when that's the only way to solve the problem, plus some service menu tweaks (by Andy from A-V Shoppe, and then later no doubt from you as well).

Spokker

11-17-06, 05:23 PM

I don't know if you are still under warranty today (so that you could plead with Sony to authorize a Sony-paid visit from a local authorized service provider), but even if you have to pay for it yourself I'm sure you would be happy with the results.
I have to call Sony? God I hate them. I thought I just have to call the place that does Sony repairs. According to the web site you just put in your zip code and they give you a list.

I'll call them anyway.

archon333

11-17-06, 08:09 PM

I have the same problem. An audible "popping" noise that eminates from the CRT socket accompanied by very rapid flashing of the picture. First fix (re-insulating ) worked for a week. Failing again the same way. Currently back in for second repair. I beleive the so-called Sony service bulletin is bogus since nobody can tell me how to find it. Sony folks can't find it either.
Dunottar, I am also having the same exact problem, audible loud click followed by picture flashing. I am keeping from happenong somewhat by placing an aircleaner output aimed at the crt thru the rear side. Please keep us informed as to what your next repair visit does. I was under the impression that the insulation fix was all that would be needed.
Thanks

DSperber

11-17-06, 08:22 PM

I have to call Sony? God I hate them. I thought I just have to call the place that does Sony repairs. According to the web site you just put in your zip code and they give you a list.Well, actually my first call to Sony resulted in their sending out a "factory technician", which obviously required sony scheduling. I thought this would be adequate but as it turns out it was not.

Maybe it's not really necessary to call then to get an authorization for a non-factory warranty visit (free of charge to you) from one of the local nearby authorized service providers on their list... such as A-V Shoppe as I've recommended. If it's a warranty call when he comes out he just fills out his paperwork as a "warranty" call and sends the bill to Sony, so maybe there's really nothing for you to do except tell the service place that your set is under warranty (assuming it still is).

You're obviously free to call any authorized service provider on their web site list (of which A-V Shoppe is one) directly, without first calling Sony, and make your own arrangements for a warranty service call. But just be sure you explain that your set is under warranty so the visit should not cost you anything.

ckhirnigs113

11-18-06, 02:50 AM

Hi, I have been really interested in this tv or one of xs955 models for a while now, but I have had no luck finding one new, used or refurbished. I live near Atlanta and I have called most of the Best Buy's and Circuit City's, but they all think I want the 34xbr970. When I explain I want the prior model, they always tell me that they don't have it. Does anyone know of one of these Super Fine Pitch models available anywhere. The best scenario would be a large electronics store that could ship to my local store.

On to another question, I would like to know if I would be able to get any service done on a used tv. Does Sony require proof of purchase? I would not like to get stuck with a used unit that can't be serviced. Any help with any of this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, CK

masbama

11-18-06, 10:51 AM

The main Sears store in Mobile had one or two 34XS955's, new in the box, for sale a a great price. Worth the call.

HDTVFanAtic

11-19-06, 03:29 AM

ckhirnigs113

11-20-06, 12:09 AM

I went to Sears tonight to take my first look at one of these Super Fine Pitch displays in person. It was a 34XS955. They had it hooked up to a HD channel and it looked pretty good. I went through the menus and turned off Vivid mode and put it on Pro and on Monitor in the other settings. I got the picture to look better than it had been.

Right next to this set was one of the new 34XBR970's and I was able to do a little side-by-side comparison. To tell the truth, after changing the settings on the 970 to match that of the 955's, I was a little surprised to see that I could not see any improvement in the 955's super fine pitch display.

I got the sales rep to plug in a panasonic hdmi dvd player to the 955 to see how it looked and it looked pretty bad. There was no remote for the dvd player so I couldn't get into the settings to change the up-conversion stuff etc... I went to try and change the DRC setting on the tv to progressive, but it was grayed out and said it was in interlace mode.

After all this I still wanted to buy the set, but I think the price was too high. They were asking $1049 and this set is 2 years old. They have an open-box model, but they would only take 10% off. I don't think $945 is any better. I've heard you can get these tv's for about $700 refurbished from Sony outlet stores, but the closest one to me is about 10 hours away.

Does anyone have any advice on how to get one of these tv's for a good deal. Also, I would love to get one shipped from a Sony Outlet, so if anyone knows how to get that accomplished, then please let me know. Thanks for any help, CK

HDTVFanAtic

11-21-06, 02:37 AM

I have said over and over, I am hesitant about buying one of these from a non-local dealer - though maybe now from Sony at a reduced price it might be ok.

There are various places that will arrange for shipping anywhere in the country.

Quite frankly, I don't know if they would be boxed at the Sony Outlet - someone who has purchased on would have to tell you.

If not, some type of crating would have to be built - which adds to the price obviously.

I had freightquote.com do shipping of a 150lbs electronic item roughly 1,000 miles for slightly under $100. Obviously the 960 is about twice that - but then again - it doesn't increase proportionally.

Bob Nielsen was the person I used there - and I am sure he could tell you what would be involved.

www.Freightquote.com
16025 West 113th Street
Lenexa, KS 66219
800.323.5441 x 1729
fax 913.319.0664
email bnielsen<remove for antispam> @freightquote.com

justsc

11-21-06, 12:25 PM

lol i just got my xbr970 and it looks friggen incredable with an ota antenna. i dont care what u say about this sfp stuff the 970 is almost as good as it gets. the 960 might be little better but i doubt its noticable with out being side by side and the 970 rocks!
Great news! ;)

But we have to give the SFP tube its due. It does have higher resolution than the non-SFP tube, and at the right seating distance it makes a difference. But does that make the 960 "so much better" than the 970 or other non-SFP tubes? That's up to the person putting up the cash.

When I was in the market two years ago I was comparing the KV-34HS420 (same tube as the 970) with the KD-34XBR960 (SFP tube). The HS420 was on sale for $1,449 at CC. The XBR960 was running at it's regular price at $2,199. They had them on display side-by-side. I already owned another crt HD set so I was familiar with the issues and how to adjust a set to look as good as possible on a showroom floor (which is never the best condition to make comparisons). The new tv was to go into my master bedroom, which is rather large. To get the most "cinematic" experience, I intended to sit as close as possible without being able to see scanlines and artifacts and such. So I stood back about 5-6 feet (the closest I could get given the furniture in my master bedroom). At 5-6' I could tell the difference, as I believe most everyone could - the SFP tube showed no visible scanlines. With the HS420 at the same distance I could barely make out scanlines, and the scene needed to be high contrast in order to see the faintest scanline. So it was essentially a draw for scanlines. I saw no bothersome artifacts on either set. What else? I noticed that the HS420 (non-SFP tube) had a brighter picture (due to larger pixels spaced further apart), which tended to bring out more of the famous color HD sets are known for.

What to do... Well, I really wanted the 960 because I'm essentially a videophile at heart. I work in flight simulation, so I understand display technology very well and always want the "best." But the more I looked the more difficult the decision became. Even though I had the funds for either, I still consider value very important. As hard as I looked at these sets, I could not find a $700 difference in picture quality. The 960 was simply not $700 better, even with the integrated ATSC tuner, PIP, Firewire and such. Now, if the 960 had only been $100 or $200 more than the HS420 I'd have gone with the SFP tube in a heartbeat. So I purchased the 34HS420 and I've been thoroughly pleased with my decision ever since. I have a fantastic HD set and to this day, every time I sit down and turn it on I'm still blown away by the picture quality. That should be every HD owners experience regardless of which set they get.

ckhirnigs113

11-22-06, 02:25 AM

HDTVFanAtic, Thanks for the tip. I may end up using them to ship the tv, especially if they are cheaper than the other choices.

R8ders2K

11-22-06, 03:18 PM

Greetings,

Has anyone used their iLink connector for anything other than a camcorder? Can it be used with Sony's DVD Recorder (RDR-GX330)?

Fabian

RM23J8G

11-22-06, 04:01 PM

I've just had it with Sony....
I purchased a 960 "open box" at CC a couple of months ago. It was the last one they had or could get, so it was that one or I was never going to get one.
I knew from looking at it operating in the store, that the CRT was a bit on the weak side, as I am a broadcast video engineer by trade and have been for almost 40 years. Possibly defective from the start, or from operating in torch mode for who knows how many hours.
"No problem" I think, as right there on the tag, it says "this open box item carries the full manufacturer two year parts and labor warranty".
I get the set, and proceed to call Sony about fixing it. They give me three local places to call. The first one, after relating the problem, says "no way" are they going to get involved with it, because it's an "open box" set.
The second one says to bring it in....which I do...with the receipt. He looks at the receipt,and says..."you only paid $800 for this set and you expect a new CRT from Sony?" I said, "well, actually yes I do, as it's covered under warranty". He says he'll call them and get back to me.
I get a call a week later, and he says Sony said no way. I call Sony and ask them what the problem is. They say a supervisor will get in touch later.
He calls a few days later, and says, essentially..."not only are we not going to replace the CRT, you have no warranty at all on this set". The guy was a complete jerk on the phone. I asked where does the warranty say that it excludes "open box" items, which he ignored. I told him that he better get straight on this warranty business with one of their largest retailers. That guy was the most arrogant jerk I have spoken to on the phone in quite a while, and I am done with Sony. They're an absolute pain the rear to deal with on broadcast equipment service as well, so I guess they're bringing that same attitude to the consumer side now.
Luckily, I took the set back to CC as it was within the 30 day return period. I told them what Sony said about the warranty, and they could have not cared less.
So now, I have a terrible aftertaste of Sony, and no 360.
Beware of those open box sets and your "warranty" coverage, because it's not worth the paper it's' printed on.
Sony can shove it as far as I'm concerned....

foxfan

11-22-06, 10:00 PM

Greetings,

Has anyone used their iLink connector for anything other than a camcorder? Can it be used with Sony's DVD Recorder (RDR-GX330)?

Fabian

Yeah, the whole reason why I bought this model was so I could use its tuner to record HD on D-VHS tape.

R8ders2K

11-22-06, 11:30 PM

foxfan,

Which D-VHS VCR do you have? Mits or JVC?

foxfan

11-23-06, 12:04 PM

JVC 40k

HDTVFanAtic

11-24-06, 04:50 AM

jamesflames

11-24-06, 11:35 AM

I bought mine open box and have had no problems with repairs. Does you warranty say"OPEN BOX" on it? I called my local Sony authorized repair shop and they said just have a copy of the receipt handy. They've replaced my DZ Board, By-Board and Q-Box without issue. And reminded me to call again if I have any further problems. Unfortunately for 960's Serial Number is probably tagged to exclude repairs now.

Bitwize

11-24-06, 04:26 PM

Well, some may call me crazy, but I just traded my 60" sxrd xbr1 for the xbr 960 I sold 4 months ago. Yep, I owned the 960, sold it due to a move, and now want it back so badly that the new owner is doing an even trade for my 10 month old sxrd xbr1. 34" vs. 60" is the only kicker for me, but this goes to show how incredible the 960 really is. I'm a true videophile and the 960 is unmatched in turns of PQ. I look forward to bringin' her home once again. And I will not miss the sxrd anywhere near as much.

hamm

11-26-06, 12:33 PM

Well Nabiki87 there are many others interested in this TV so if you post your location you may get an offer that is better than what you paid for it!

I'm looking to sell my set soon. Just due to the room size and set up, a flat panel is about the only way I can go. This 200 lb. monster is deep.

I bought it from ABC Warehouse brand new in box on April 23 of 2006. I confirmed with the sales man that it had never been opened or returned, as I was looking for a perfect condition set. Included is the standard Sony warrantee, which obviously still remains on the TV. I've also always used the TV in 'Pro' picture mode adjusted accordingly with the Avia calibration DVD (so it's never had color burn in), but it's never been ISF calibrated.

http://homepages.wmich.edu/~m2hamm/front.jpg

http://homepages.wmich.edu/~m2hamm/left.jpg

http://homepages.wmich.edu/~m2hamm/receip~1.jpg

http://homepages.wmich.edu/~m2hamm/receip~2.jpg

I'm located in Grand Rapids, MI if anyone is wondering, and willing to drive 50 miles or so.

R8ders2K

11-26-06, 10:49 PM

Has anyone ever had any problems with the HDMI port? I'm trying to determine if it's the 960's connector or the cable.

PeterTHX

11-27-06, 12:36 AM

Bitwize

11-27-06, 08:04 AM

finally got the xbr960....again. so long sxrd, hello 960. man, the PQ difference between the 960 and the sxrd is incredible. shame on me for forgetting. i'll never sell this one again. glad to be back in the 960 camp.

hamm

11-27-06, 08:58 AM

Hmmm.

Declined warranty eh?

I know it has a 2 year from Sony. However their service is through local channels and so far it's been pretty poor. Fortunately I also got a 5 year from Circuit City and they're taking care of it much better ("landing" problem and cable card firmware).
Plus, Sony wanted a small fortune to renew it, I saved quite a bit with the CC one.

That's a good call on the warrantee through circuit city. But i got it through ABC Warehouse - i wouldn't say THEIR extended warrantee would be worth it, especially since it would cost another arm and leg through them. If this set WERE to go bad, they would probably give me a 970 and call it square - that's a no-no to me. It comes from a lovely pet and smoke free home though :)

R8ders2K

11-27-06, 03:39 PM

Well, I think I've determined that it was a bad Sony (?!?) HDMI cable.

I think that I've also ruled out the KD-34XBR960 as a factor as my new Oppo DV-970HD works fine with the Oppo supplied HDMI cable direct to the TV.

PathofNeo

11-27-06, 07:44 PM

Does anyone here have a PS3 hooked up to their xbr960? I'm dying to hear a review on this.

Joseph Dubin

11-27-06, 11:37 PM

jpl3447

11-28-06, 12:06 AM

I have the Sony DVP-NS75H upconverting DVD player and I let the 960 handle all the converting. Thus I have the progressive off, output set to 480i and use the component outputs along with the digital out for sound.

My basis for doing this is when watching the movie A Perfect Murder at the beginning there is a scene where Paltrow is walking past a shop with painted lettering for a sign, and I switched back and forth between the Progressive and non-Progressive mode by pressing the Progressive button on the DVD player. In Progressive mode the lettering displayed jagged edges (in pause) and in non-Progressive the lettering became clear. A similar scene with font should suffice if one wants to try out this.

Ever since I have let the 960 handle all conversion of 480i native source to 1080i.

PeterTHX

11-28-06, 12:33 AM

My basis for doing this is when watching the movie A Perfect Murder at the beginning there is a scene where Paltrow is walking past a shop with painted lettering for a sign, and I switched back and forth between the Progressive and non-Progressive mode by pressing the Progressive button on the DVD player. In Progressive mode the lettering displayed jagged edges (in pause) and in non-Progressive the lettering became clear. A similar scene with font should suffice if one wants to try out this.

Well, it's difficult to tell in pause mode. Upconverting players don't pause very well.
During playback is a simpler to vote for the upconverting player: it gets rid of the tiny but noticeable scan lines in DVD playback. I have this set mated with a Samsung BDP-1000 Blu-ray player via HDMI, and DVD playback is cleaned up somewhat with the scan lines out of the picture.

DSperber

11-28-06, 01:22 AM

jpl3447

11-28-06, 02:32 AM

Well, it's difficult to tell in pause mode. Upconverting players don't pause very well.
During playback is a simpler to vote for the upconverting player: it gets rid of the tiny but noticeable scan lines in DVD playback. I have this set mated with a Samsung BDP-1000 Blu-ray player via HDMI, and DVD playback is cleaned up somewhat with the scan lines out of the picture.

I wondered about the pause thing. I thought that if I could see a difference when switching in and out of progressive while paused then something is working right. I would need to do more experiments, looking for good scenes to play back that would work in play.

DSperber... I have the set in Cinemotion now. I don't recall what I had it in when watching the movie... it was a few weeks ago. And thinking of it... if the movie was paused when I did this, would it not matter what DRC mode it was in?

lastxbr960

11-28-06, 09:34 AM

Has anybody hooked up an upconversion DVD player to the 960? Are the results better as opposed to a standard DVD player with upconversion of a 480I ouput done by the set? Of course, I'm thinking of getting one since it upgrades to near HD-quality but knowing how great the 960 upconverts I was wondering in this case if the difference is only slight.

If it's worth getting, would those manual HDMI switch boxes that sell for twenty or thirty dollars be sufficient, or are the ones that sell for more than $200 (i.e., Sima, etc.) necessary instead?

Thanks again,

Joe

I have a Samsung HD860 hooked up with hdmi and component.
I have been trying to find the best combo and it seems that component 480i upconverted to 960 cinemotion which is simple line doubling I believe is tied with HDMI set to 1080i.
I seem to see more detail in the component 480i-960 cinemotion then the hdmi 1080i upconversion and it seems cleaner and brighter, however the hdni 1080i is slightly sharper and darker, not a bad thing.
So I dont know which is best yet.
480P looks similar on both and warmer with inkier blacks but slightly less detail.
I used king kong- incredibles-Aeon flux- madagascar-and some superbit titles to test this.
I am suprised the Sony set does such a good job uoconverting and seems to be equal if not better than my dvd player at upscaling/deinterlacing, but I must test more to be for sure.. I would really like to try a dvd player with Faroudja and see if that is even better. :o

bellbm

11-28-06, 09:57 AM

I was looking at one of these at a retailer last night, and it had some huge overscan issues, mainly on the left side and the bottom.

I also noticed a vertical black bar, about 1/4 inch wide, running down the left side. It was visible when the tv was off.

Does anyone know if this the sign of a tube defect, or something I could fix through adjustments. I'm a bit hesitant to buy it.

Thanks

DSperber

11-28-06, 10:20 AM

I was looking at one of these at a retailer last night, and it had some huge overscan issues, mainly on the left side and the bottom.overscan adjustments (i.e. horizontal and vertical positioning, sizing and cropping) is absolutely adjustable through a handful of items in the service menu. This is probably the one area of adjustment for this set where you can easily achieve 100% desired results.

And you can do this yourself, without "professional help", as long as you have a proper test pattern that you can send to the set. Generally this is done through either (1) a calibration DVD (e.g. Digital Video Essentials or AVIA) which would be at 480p, or (2) by connecting your PC to the set and sending out a BMP test pattern at 1080i via some image display program... if your video card supports it.

DSperber

11-28-06, 10:23 AM

II also noticed a vertical black bar, about 1/4 inch wide, running down the left side. It was visible when the tv was off.This was on the screen itself? And not also on the right side, or top and bottom edges?

There is a small black border on all four edges of the screen, like a "physical curtain" masking out the extreme outer edges of the picture tube. Is this what you're describing?

Or are you describing some additional black bar on the screen itself, to the right of the black "onscreen physical curtain", so that you actually have two black bars (one physical, the other on the visible screen) on the left edge?

Joseph Dubin

11-28-06, 10:31 AM

I am suprised the Sony set does such a good job upconverting and seems to be equal if not better than my dvd player at upscaling/deinterlacing, but I must test more to be for sure.. I :o

Hi,

This is why I am hesitant to purchase another DVD player. My own experience finds that the 960 better upconverts DVDs with the output of my progressive scan DVD set to 480I (and not 480P). The picture is sharper and more vibrant, even with the 960 picture settings readjusted utilizing a THX Optomizer. The same holds true with my HD DVR. It has several upconverting modes but none look as good as the box set to"HDMI" (which passes the signal unchanged to the 960 and allows the Sony to upconvert). Again, this is after making readjustments according to the INHD test patterns (saved on hard drive).

So even though the prices have dropped considerably, based on the replies I've read so far, it doesn't seem necessary to invest in yet another DVD player for the upconverting feature.

Thanks so much to all,
Joe :)

bellbm

11-28-06, 10:44 AM

This was on the screen itself? And not also on the right side, or top and bottom edges?

There is a small black border on all four edges of the screen, like a "physical curtain" masking out the extreme outer edges of the picture tube. Is this what you're describing?

Or are you describing some additional black bar on the screen itself, to the right of the black "onscreen physical curtain", so that you actually have two black bars (one physical, the other on the visible screen) on the left edge?

I've done overscan adjustments before, so I'm familiar with how to do that, and also with the curtains, or shutters, on these tvs.

This black line, was only on the left side, and it was over the picture, basically making the picture darker in that area. When I was watching 4x3 content, it was slightly darker than the frame around the 4x3 box, but only on the left side, which is the side that clearly needs overscan adjustment. The right side seemed to be ok, so I'm thinking maybe this is an overscan issue.
The only thing that concerns me is it seemed visible when the set was off, so I'm thinking it might be a defect in the tube., or possiblly the set was dropped.
Any thoughts?

bschmidt25

11-28-06, 11:09 AM

Joseph Dubin

11-28-06, 01:03 PM

I have a Denon DVD-755 upconverting to 1080i through the HDMI port. The difference is night and day compared to 480p on the component inputs.

Have you tried setting the output to 480I? The 960 cannot upconvert any signal that is progressive. It will only do it by having the output to 480I.

R8ders2K

11-28-06, 02:18 PM

I have a Denon DVD-755 upconverting to 1080i through the HDMI port. The difference is night and day compared to 480p on the component inputs.

I just got the Oppo Digital DV-970HD and connected it via HDMI. It's set for 1080i, but I don't see it. Maybe, I'm missing something or I need to get my set calibrated. Is there a particular movie where the up-conversion is REALLY obvious? :confused:

lastxbr960

11-29-06, 10:54 AM

Hi,

This is why I am hesitant to purchase another DVD player. My own experience finds that the 960 better upconverts DVDs with the output of my progressive scan DVD set to 480I (and not 480P). The picture is sharper and more vibrant, even with the 960 picture settings readjusted utilizing a THX Optomizer. The same holds true with my HD DVR. It has several upconverting modes but none look as good as the box set to"HDMI" (which passes the signal unchanged to the 960 and allows the Sony to upconvert). Again, this is after making readjustments according to the INHD test patterns (saved on hard drive).

So even though the prices have dropped considerably, based on the replies I've read so far, it doesn't seem necessary to invest in yet another DVD player for the upconverting feature.

Thanks so much to all,
Joe :)
I am in the same boat, I think when the Sony upconverts to 960i, it is simply doubling the resolution so there is nothing complicated to compute or add to, or guess, as in 1080i or 720P conversion which is not a straight duplicate, this is why I think it has a slightly cleaner, purer look than the others.

However I really want to try one of the pro audio formats. SACD or DVDAudio and Faroudja based Processing at 720P and 1080i, So I may just cave in and get a refurbished oppo 971 or comparable player with a 30 day but back guarantee to try on my recntly ISF calibrated 960. :cool: .

lastxbr960

11-29-06, 10:58 AM

I just got the Oppo Digital DV-970HD and connected it via HDMI. It's set for 1080i, but I don't see it. Maybe, I'm missing something or I need to get my set calibrated. Is there a particular movie where the up-conversion is REALLY obvious? :confused:
Did you calibrate with AVIA or DVE at that res. Also try 720P(sometimes better)
And also try 480i both component and HDMI and cinemotion on the xbr960 and let us know what your favorites are.
What movies are you using as a refence? :)

R8ders2K

11-29-06, 04:15 PM

No, I haven't tried AVIA or DVE yet. Was hoping that it might have been calibrated, since it was an opened box. Any movie suggestions for reference?

snowmoon

11-29-06, 04:20 PM

I just got the Oppo Digital DV-970HD and connected it via HDMI. It's set for 1080i, but I don't see it. Maybe, I'm missing something or I need to get my set calibrated. Is there a particular movie where the up-conversion is REALLY obvious? :confused:

Hmm... I don't think you will since the 970 is really meant for it's pure digial 480i HDMI output and was not outfitted with the DCDi chip. It's upscaling won't be much better than the TV's internal scaler. The 971 was meant to be used as an upscaling DVD player.

jlrmhilton

12-01-06, 02:00 PM

Hi,

Anyone know what TV this stand (SU-34XBR2) originally worked with and do you think a 960 would look right on top? I've got a decent deal and need a stand.
Thanks

jwbausch

12-01-06, 03:17 PM

Hi,

Anyone know what TV this stand (SU-34XBR2) originally worked with and do you think a 960 would look right on top? I've got a decent deal and need a stand.
Thanks

I'm 99% certain that this is the stand I have w/ my XBR960. It is one generation previous to the XBR3 stand which is a perfect color match for the 960. But this XBR2 was a close enough color match for me and the price was right.

R8ders2K

12-01-06, 11:12 PM

FWIW, according to Crutchfield, the SU-34XBR2 is for the Sony KW-34XBR2HD, a 34" XBR HDTV.

jwbausch

12-02-06, 03:59 PM

FWIW, according to Crutchfield, the SU-34XBR2 is for the Sony KW-34XBR2HD, a 34" XBR HDTV.

I've been able to dig up the receipt for the stand I bought that works w/ my 960 and it is the SU34XBR1. As I mentioned earlier, it is not a perfect color match for the set. I think the XBR2 stand might be perfect for your 960, but check around further before buying. ;-)

foxfan

12-02-06, 08:28 PM

The XBR3 is the one matching the 960, NOT the XBR2.

The XBR2 stand was actually an older one that was used for the 34XBR800, which was the same as the 34HS510.

jwbausch

12-02-06, 08:37 PM

The XBR3 is the one matching the 960, NOT the XBR2.

The XBR2 stand was actually an older one that was used for the 34XBR800, which was the same as the 34HS510.

Oops, my bad.

Falcon195

12-03-06, 12:12 AM

DSperber

12-04-06, 01:41 AM

Since day one I have noticed that when watching digital OTA channels on my 960 sometimes the video and audio are slightly out of sync. I have had this 960 since late 2004 and even though the problem is not as noticeable it still happens sometime.We need more detail.

Where do you live and what channel(s) present this problem? Any particular programs that this is more prevalent on? This might genuinely be a channel/network problem. Also in the past, some specific programs have been known to have an A/V sync problem that was "national" (e.g. Leno Show was notorious until they fixed it at the source... NBC network, as was "Las Vegas").

What are you listening to... speakers in the set, or external audio system via receiver? If speakers are external via audio system do you feed it via analog stereo L/R "audio monitor out" or via optical digital audio out from HDTV to the optical digital audio input to the receiver?

Some local channels (NBC-DT in particular over many parts of the country, for quite a surprisingly long period but thankfully eventually corrected earlier this year) have been known to have more or less digital A/V sync problems at their end and there's nothing that can be done about it. It's not the fault of the HDTV, it's definitely their fault... the broadcasters. For example, the Torino Olympics had serious A/V sync (and level!) problems.

This type of "built-in" A/V sync problem caused by the broadcaster will be noticeable on your HDTV even if you're listening through the set's speakers.

On the other hand, if you're routing digital audio from your HDTV to an external receiver, it's possible that the "processing time" in the receiver is causing an apparent A/V sync problem as the video is being presented "instantly" on the set while the audio takes a bit longer to make its way through to the receiver where it is processed and then sent out to the speakers.

Believe it or not, if this really is the cause of the problem I think you'd have a less observable (if at all) A/V sync/delay by feeding the analog L/R stereo "audio monitor out" signal out of the HDTV to the receiver for analog L/R stereo processing than by feeding optical digital audio to it. I realize you'd lose the potential of Dolby Digital 5.1 sound (although the analog audio output when tuning to a digital OTA channel is the 2-channel PCM stereo, which is perfectly clean and not really analog at all), but quite frankly I'm always seriously distracted by a lip sync problem and I'd rather have conventional stereo than not enjoy the show because I'm totally focused on the lip sync.

Most "reliable" setup (though you may not have an option) for minimal or zero A/V sync problem is to use an external A/V source (e.g. cable/satellite STB) to provide video to the HDTV (HDMI/DVI or component) and simultaneously feed the digital audio to your external receiver via optical/coax. The essentially identical processing time in both HDTV and audio receiver makes everything work as if it were one (assuming of course that there is no A/V sync problem coming from the broadcaster).

tvh3ad

12-04-06, 07:47 AM

Garvey

12-04-06, 10:31 AM

justsc

12-04-06, 10:56 AM

I've been happily watching a self-calibrated (using DVE) glitch-free XBR960 since December '04. Owing to a recent audio upgrade, I've had to rearrange furniture so that our viewing distance is now about 9', and the TV seems a bit small to me from this new distance.

Here's my question: is this set still far enough ahead of plasma/LCD in terms of absolute PQ that it's worth having professionally calibrated and keeping for a few more years (even at a viewing distance of 9'), or should I start thinking now about replacing it with a 42-46" set?

Thanks!
IMHO, at 9' you are not getting the most from your 960. If I were in your shoes I'd put the 960 into a room (bedroom?) where you could view from closer up, and get a larger set for your main viewing. As Garvey has written, a large Plasma would be nice. For me, I'm thinking of getting one of Sony's SXRD sets, probably the 55" version.

BTV Mark

12-04-06, 12:05 PM

I have been going through this thread and I haven't seen this issue addressed and I was wondering if anybody else has noticed this or can give me some idea what is causing this.
Since day one I have noticed that when watching digital OTA channels on my 960 sometimes the video and audio are slightly out of sync. I have had this 960 since late 2004 and even though the problem is not as noticeable it still happens sometime.
I was told by the shop that I bought the 960 from that the sync problem was due to the station broadcasting the signal and not my 960. I tend to believe this as like I said sometimes it doesn't happen at all times and at other times and channels it does.
Can anybody shead some light on this ?
Also is it advisable to set my calibration on my 960 in standard mode using the Video essentials calibration DVD?
Or would in be better to make the calibration with the video essentials dvd in pro mode?
Thanks

DSerber said it well, and I agree with him. It's not the 960--it's the broadcasters.

This is an aggravating problem that will probably be with us for a while. What happens is the video signal is put through various processing devices, each of which can cause a delay of 1/30th. of a second. With multiple processing steps, this can become a large and noticeable delay. There are audio devices that can compensate for the delay and "re-synch" the signal, but they aren't always used. (And I don't know if they're made yet to handle 5.1 audio.)

The other fact is that the TV networks and stations do not pay enough attention to digital TV sound--at least not yet. For one thing, it's a training issue. For another, it's monitoring and switching equipment.

I believe this situation will be with us for another 2 years. Once all transmission is digital, the engineering staffs won't be splitting their time between analog and digital audio signal paths, and will be able to concentrate on digital signals. So this situation should improve dramatically.

Mark

jwbausch

12-05-06, 12:16 PM

I have a problem w/ my 960 that I have not been able to solve and I'm seeking solution(s) here before I make a service call (thankfully I have a few more months on my warranty). Over a month ago I added an upverting Sony DVD player to my system together w/ a Monoprice HDMI switcher since I had my Comcast Moto 6200 box connected to the 960 by HDMI through a DVI --> HDMI cable. Everything seemed to be fine, but sometimes when I would switch from the HDMI DVD player back to the Moto box, the HD tv picture would be very bizarre and sort of had something similar to a picture-in-picture look but with just that channel. Changing the channel on the Moto box would bring the picture back to normal. Fast-forward to the other night where my Moto HD picture just disappeared from the screen. If I power off the Moto box and power it back on, the picture comes back most of the time just for a few seconds, then the screen goes black. I thought maybe the HDMI switching box was the issue but directly connecting the Moto box by HDMI to the 960 does not resolve the problem. Plus, directly connecting the upverting DVD player to the HDMI port on the 960 does not result in any picture. The HDMI light on the front of the DVD player does not light up, suggesting something is wrong w/ the connection. I've flipped the switch on my power supply to off for a few seconds and repowered everything, but this has not resolved the problem either. Also, the Moto box is fine using component connections, so at least I was able to watch my Philadelphia Iggles last night. ;-)

Any suggestions on things to try to fix this problem would be appreciated. And if you have had good luck w/ any Sony service company near Philly, I'd appreciate that rec.

Joseph Dubin

12-05-06, 12:51 PM

Since day one I have noticed that when watching digital OTA channels on my 960 sometimes the video and audio are slightly out of sync. I have had this 960 since late 2004 and even though the problem is not as noticeable it still happens sometime. I was told by the shop that I bought the 960 from that the sync problem was due to the station broadcasting the signal and not my 960.
Thanks

Yes, agree with the others it is not a problem with the 960. So often I notice the audio out of sync on UNHD. You might also find this on some DVDs (for example, the DTS soundtrack of the original issue of "Die Another Day").

Also is it advisable to set my calibration on my 960 in standard mode using the Video essentials calibration DVD? Or would in be better to make the calibration with the video essentials dvd in pro mode?

I actually experimented with both. Because the 960 retains the individual settings for each of the modes, I was able to switch between the two for comparision. Most in this group use the PRO mode. I also prefer the neutral color temperature for the pure whites. With non-HD material (digital broadcasts and DVDs) I prefer keeping the advanced video setting to emphasize red. You might, therefore, need to adjust your color setting to see if you prefer the MONITOR or DEFAULT setting.

wbrett

12-05-06, 12:56 PM

The thing I've been thinking about lately is the fact that alot of the functionality of the twin-view, guide, index etc. is already gone and will only get worse with digital coming on. Is there any chance of an upgrade?

Joseph Dubin

12-05-06, 01:01 PM

jwbausch

12-05-06, 01:19 PM

[QUOTE=I don't own an upconverting DVD player but since the HDMI light is not on do you have it set for upconversion?[/QUOTE]

Yes, it is set properly. And it used to work perfectly via HDMI, and that HDMI light was lit. The DVD manual (which I don't have in front of me right now) I think said that if the light is not on then something is not right w/ the HDCP handshake.

It just seems too coincidental that both my DVD player and the Moto cable box no longer function using HDMI when they both used to work perfectly. But I can pretty easily take my DVD player to a friend's house to make sure it still works by HDMI.

tvh3ad

12-05-06, 02:31 PM

tvh3ad:

You bring up an excellent point--that PQ and viewing experience depends on the context.

Personally, if I were you and had the money, I'd get a fat plasma. Sure, sure, the 960 is still the PQ reference set, but too small is too small.

Hmm, well, I took my wife to Tweeter to look at the new stuff and she totally nixed the idea of replacing it -- said that the LCD screens looked too fake/digital to her and the plasmas looked wrong, too (although she didn't use the words "fake" or "digital" for these). Reluctantly, I have to admit that she has a point.

I guess we'll be hanging on to the 960 until it breaks or plasma/LCD/something else surpasses its picture...

DSperber

12-05-06, 03:54 PM

Hmm, well, I took my wife to Tweeter to look at the new stuff and she totally nixed the idea of replacing it -- said that the LCD screens looked too fake/digital to her and the plasmas looked wrong, too (although she didn't use the words "fake" or "digital" for these). Reluctantly, I have to admit that she has a point. I guess we'll be hanging on to the 960 until it breaks or plasma/LCD/something else surpasses its picture...As was mentioned in an earlier reply, you might consider the SXRD family of Sony RPTV's as a suitable replacement... depending on your room, budget, and viewing environment.

Properly tweaked (mostly by going from VIVID to PRO and cranking back most of the settings, setting SHARPNESS=MIN, adjusting color/brightness/picture and color temperature using DVE or AVIA, and using HDMI input from your source), and viewed from "relatively" straight-on, I found the SXRD that my sister has (a 50XBR1) to be absolutely stunning!

Its only real problem is a fairly narrow "optimal viewing angle" of 60 degrees, but if you all sit on a sofa opposite the set I think it will be as near-XBR960 as you will see. Honestly, it looks like a CRT, not a fixed-pixel display (other than its perfection) and your wife will absolutely not think of it as an LCD or plasma. But if your viewing environment involves people sprayed all around the room or rear wall then you may have to decide if this issue is a deal-breaker (by trying it out and seeing how it looks) or if all things considered you'd really rather have a larger set from your new 9' viewing distance than the 34XBR960.

Again... once adjusted from "factory VIVID" and viewed in a darkened room from relatviely straight direction it looks like a CRT. The colors are so true and the brightness/black is so pure that you will think you're looking at a much larger version of the XBR960... which is what you're asking for.

The original XBR1 family of SXRD sets has been replaced by a second generation that supports 1080p input as well as having an "intermediate size" 55" version. But they've also introduced a lesser sub-group (cheaper) to go along with the XBR2 better sub-group. I've seen none of these newer sets, so my comments are derived from my original 50XBR1 experience. I'd recommend not going with the cheaper of the newer available sets, but go for the better version in your proper size.

Take the wife back to see an SXRD Sony, sit her down opposite the set, get the remote from the salesman and get into the user menu to see what it shows, and dial things back if you must. If there is lots of ambient light or broad daylight then you won't want to cut back too much (although proper viewing should really be in a dark or darkened area). I think she'll be impressed.

DSperber

12-05-06, 04:44 PM

Fast-forward to the other night where my Moto HD picture just disappeared from the screen. If I power off the Moto box and power it back on, the picture comes back most of the time just for a few seconds, then the screen goes black. I thought maybe the HDMI switching box was the issue but directly connecting the Moto box by HDMI to the 960 does not resolve the problem. Plus, directly connecting the upverting DVD player to the HDMI port on the 960 does not result in any picture. The HDMI light on the front of the DVD player does not light up, suggesting something is wrong w/ the connection. I've flipped the switch on my power supply to off for a few seconds and repowered everything, but this has not resolved the problem either. Also, the Moto box is fine using component connections, so at least I was able to watch my Philadelphia Iggles last night. Welcome to the world of "first-generation" HDMI interfaces. There are plenty of these types of stories going around.

My sister has an HDMI-capable Sony DVD player and an HDMI-equipped Moto 6412-III DVR, both directly connected via HDMI (not through any switch) to her Sony 50XBR1 set which has two HDMI inputs. The DVD player is off essentially 100% of the time, though it is connected to the XBR1 via HDMI cable. If she powers the DVR on at about the same time as the XBR1 (which takes about 10 seconds to come out of standby state), when the screen finally displays something it is all green! She hears audio (delivered via HDMI cable to the set's speakers) but the screen is green. The solution is to then power the DVR off, and then power it on, and now the picture properly appears on the XBR1 screen.

Apparently, either (1) whatever HDMI handshaking goes on is not completed properly during the power-on of the DVR and the warmup phase of the XBR1 power-on process. Perhaps the DVR is deciding that the device at the other end of the cable should not be "trusted" and it does not deliver video. But this seems odd, given that audio is apparently delivered.

Alternatively, (2) maybe the XBR1 wants to do its HDMI handshaking after it completes its 10 second warmup but by that time the DVR has long since given up trying to handshake (which it started as soon as it powered up, which was instant). So the handshake never occurs, until the DVR is powered off and on again which re-initiates the handshake between the DVR and the now-ready XBR1... leading to happiness and a real picture.

I know, this sounds like numerology. "Give it a kick after opening and closing the door"... usually fixes it. Legends. Invent any sequence of operations that often seems to work and now it's the "solution".

You might try powering all external devices down first when you want to change your A/B setting on the HDMI switch. Then power up just the desired source device and the HDTV. Leave the other source device powered off when not in use, so as not to confuse the HDMI discussion in your multi-device/switch configuration.

Since the problem is typically coming from the the source device who refuses to deliver to an "untrusted" recipient, you might try pulling the power plug on your DVR and let it sit for a minute before plugging it back in. Yes, you'll have to reload your GUIDE but you will also go through power-on cold start including an HDMI process (when you actually power it on) which odds say should now be successful. Certainly this scenario should clear out all confusion if you want to re-try your "direct HDMI connection" experiment from DVR to HDTV without the switch, to confirm that things really do still work that way as they should.

tvh3ad

12-06-06, 08:33 AM

As was mentioned in an earlier reply, you might consider the SXRD family of Sony RPTV's as a suitable replacement... depending on your room, budget, and viewing environment.

The original XBR1 family of SXRD sets has been replaced by a second generation that supports 1080p input as well as having an "intermediate size" 55" version. But they've also introduced a lesser sub-group (cheaper) to go along with the XBR2 better sub-group. I've seen none of these newer sets, so my comments are derived from my original 50XBR1 experience. I'd recommend not going with the cheaper of the newer available sets, but go for the better version in your proper size.

Thanks. I took a look at Sony's site and the only SXRD set I can fit into my space (48" wide) is the non-XBR 50". Still, this looks promising! I hadn't even considered RPTV because I see DLP rainbows, but I'll give it another look.

Edit: I went to CC over lunch and looked at the SXRD sets. Nice picture -- I can see why they get compared to CRT. However, I don't think these sets would work for us: for one thing, our horizontal sprawl is too wide and the off-axis viewing is terrible; for another, the screen is plastic and we have young kids -- it'd be scratched up in a heartbeat.

It may be small, but right now I think we're keeping the 960 until something comparable emerges. Maybe I'll build a shelf extension and bring it out into the room a ways or something...

Bitwize

12-06-06, 09:23 AM

Having just gone from an SXRD to my second 960, I have to say it was all worth it. Since I sit about 6-7 feet from my 34" 960, it's screen size is adequate. The PQ is outstanding and is better than the SXRD's in many ways.

Now for the only thing about the 960 that is bothering me...

For example, if I have a bright image on the screen and then the scene changes to a semi-dark or dark scene, I can for a second still see the previous bright image overtop the darker scene. It's almost like a very very fast temporary burn-in effect that disappears within a second. I've also seen this effect in star wars, when a ship is blasting through space, creating a faint motion trail.

The easiest way to reproduce this effect is to go to a video input that has no source, just a black screen. Then bring up the TV's menu. Let it sit there for several seconds, then close out the menu. Right after closing out the menu, I'll see a faint image of the menu interface on the black background for a second or two, as it quickly fades out. So my questions are...

Is this something common for other xbr 960 users? Is this something common to large direct view sets? Am I just hypersensitive to this? Heheh. Seriously, I've never been bothered by this effect with other TVs, most recently, my SXRD. Any input appreciated. Thanks!

wbrett

12-06-06, 09:27 AM

I've noticed that effect as well. Looking forward to the replies as I've wondered about it myself.

Brad Smith

12-06-06, 11:52 AM

tvh3ad

12-06-06, 12:32 PM

Brad Smith

12-06-06, 12:39 PM

Did the replacement units work out?
No. It's just the nature of the television. Even with the issue, it still is far better than any HDTV I have ever seen.

Joseph Dubin

12-06-06, 01:12 PM

I guess we'll be hanging on to the 960 until..... plasma/LCD/something else surpasses its picture...

well......, that might be quite a while. :)

Joseph Dubin

12-06-06, 01:17 PM

It's pretty much the only major issue with the TV. Myself and others in this thread have pursued replacements units, and the ghosting/trailing issue is prevalent across the entire model line (though some slightly worse than others).

If this is an issue with all the sets, then mine must be so slight that I don't even notice it. Now, I just hope I don't actually start looking for it.

Q of BanditZ

12-06-06, 02:27 PM

Personally, I've never had the ghosting issue on my 34XBR960.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=561596

^^ I'm sure you all know my take on this TV and getting it ISF calibrated by now.

I know a lot of people who have been leaving CRT land for nice sets like the SXRD's. I must say: This is attention getting to see someone doing the reverse!

Blitzwise asked me a few questions via PM that I'm going to answer here so everyone can benefit:

Btw, do you have a PS3? If so, does it display 720p properly?

Yes. In the Ps3 video settings dashboard, check on everything except 1080p.

Or does it downscale to 480p when fedding 720p?

You won't have that problem on this TV. Anyone who has a TV that ACCEPTS and displays 720p material has no worries. Only older HDTVs that have NO 720p ability whatsoever are having issues.

I'm thinking about getting a PS3 soon as I have a "friend" who can help out in this way.

I love my PS3. :) You'll be thrilled.

Bitwize

12-06-06, 02:45 PM

Thanks Q of Banditz for the timely reply! It's good to hear that the PS3 has no issues with the XBR960. As for the ghost-like issue with the 960, I've had my set calibrated completely by Chad B and the issue still exists. It sounds like a good number of people are noticing it as well. The issue is something I can live with and really doesn't bother me unless I try to notice it, especially when I consider the difficulty in tracking down a used 960 these days.

I would still appreciate any more input by others who have noticed this "problem." Who knows, maybe some people have retinas that are more sensitive to the ghosting issue...heheh.

tvh3ad

12-06-06, 03:37 PM

I would still appreciate any more input by others who have noticed this "problem." Who knows, maybe some people have retinas that are more sensitive to the ghosting issue...heheh.

I've definitely seen the ghosting on my set, most recently in fact in the aforementioned Star Wars / Darth Vader moments, though I think I've also seen it in movies where there are things like moving torches in caves, etc. I could be wrong, but I think the speed of motion is the key: for the ghosting to occur, the contrasting object has to be moving fairly slowly but not *too* slowly. Considering Star Wars again: spaceships moving around, the Death Star exploding, etc., don't cause this, while Darth Vader turning/moving his head against a white background does (Return of the Jedi, near the beginning, Vader telling some nameless guy that the emperor's coming, and I only remember this because I saw it last night...so stop laughing.) It's not the source material, either: I wasn't watching the DVD, I was watching a recorded HD cable feed.

I assumed that this is owed to the nature of CRT / phosphor decay behavior -- my parents' 1980s Panasonic 26" console has always done exactly the same thing, as has every other CRT I've ever owned. But, if there really are sets out there that don't ever do this, maybe that's wrong.

Bitwize

12-06-06, 03:53 PM

Yeah, I hope it's just something inherent to all tube sets in varying degrees. Since I went from tube to SXRD back to tube, I think I'm more sensitive to it than most may be. Regardless, I'm going to have a Sony tech come out since it's still under warranty for another year. As long as it's a normal occurence I'll be content with it.

By the way, I was just watching the intro to Episode III, and the ships definitely leave a short, faint motion trail. Also, the credits at the end of Taladegga Nights revealed the same short, faint motion trail.

tvh3ad

12-06-06, 03:56 PM

By the way, I was just watching the intro to Episode III, and the ships definitely leave a short, faint motion trail. Also, the credits at the end of Taladegga Nights revealed the same short, faint motion trail.

Is my theory correct -- i.e., in both cases you describe, is the motion speed in that in-between category? Or were the ships you mentioned full-throttle?

Bitwize

12-06-06, 04:06 PM

yeah, they are in that mid-speed category. i just found another way to see a prominent motion trail. i have my HTPC hooked up via the HDMI input and I have all mouse trail effects turned off, BUT I can still see a very noticeable trail as I move the mouse around on a black background, regardless of speed.

man, this is a bit perplexing. i just wish it was a normal occurence so i could put it to rest and sleep tonight...heheh.

FYI, my electronics buddy who worked on CRTs years ago said that what we are describing is typical of tubes on their way out. I made up my mind not to believe this....lol.

mr2828

12-06-06, 07:19 PM

My set also has the trailing issue. I'm convinced they all likely have it but some people's eyes or brains just don't notice it.

Other places to see it: viper space scenes in battlestar galactica, fast scrolling vertical credits at the end of movies like on TNT-HD. I saw this other day while watching the end credits of one of the Tomb Raider movies scroll by. When the credit scrolling is quick enough you can easily see the trails.

njt

12-06-06, 07:47 PM

i just wish it was a normal occurence so i could put it to rest and sleep tonight...heheh.

Ah the old "trailing" issue. Is it normal? Well my friend, wars have been fought over less. Lol.

Let me preface the following by saying that there are some owners that feel this is not normal and categorcally state that this "issue" does not occur on their sets. Sadly, attempts to discuss the issue often degrade into accustions that people bought their set from the wrong store, used the wrong calibrator, are stupid for posting about the issue instead of getting service, etc etc.

If you you use the "Search this thread" feature above, look up (trailing, ghosting, streaking and phosphor) and you will get a good overview of different opinions from 960 owners. In one extreme case, you will read about one owner going through several repair/replace cycles only to see precisely the same "issue" across several tubes.

Some other links to provide background on the issue (some relate to CRT PC monitors):
Mention of streaking as a quantifiable issue in CRT monitors: http://reviews.cnet.com/Labs/4520-6603_7-5021089-1.html

Mention of the existance of "image lag" on some CRTs monitors and claim that lag may be related to phosphors: http://www.displaymate.com/flicker.html

Mention of the issue in the 800 (910's predecessor): http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=318280

Another attempt to discuss the issue with the 910 (960's predecessor) : http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=323732

Interesting post on the matter: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7218267&&#post7218267

Subsection on the 910's Phosphor Trails/Persistence/Lag: http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=368718

Hope this helps you form an opinion and course of action.

tvh3ad

12-06-06, 08:21 PM

Re the trailing and tube life: my set has done this since day 1 and as far as I can tell looks exactly the same coming up on two years, so I would say it's NOT a tube on the way out. Rest easy on that front, anyway.

Watching Tristan and Isolde on MaxHD now...looks as close to perfect as can be!

RWetmore

12-06-06, 11:41 PM

The phosphor trails are a trade off for reduced flicker. The SFP sets have phosphors with slower decay's than most sets...the slower decay serves to help minimize flicker. That is about all there is to it. How high your brightness setting is can affect to what degree the trails are visible. The darker or truer you have your blacks set, the more you will see trails in dark scenes. YOu don't see them in lighted scenes because the instantaneous rise time of the phosphors immediately overwhelms any decay time.

Bitwize

12-07-06, 11:15 AM

njt: Thanks for the helpful information and links! Definitely rests my mind a bit.

tvh3ad: I've decided to wait another 6 months or so and see where things are then. I have another 9 months on the warranty. Thx for the reply.

RWetmore: Yeah, I know what you mean. I have my 960 ISF'd so the blacks are black and the light output is set just right. I only notice the trailing in dark scenes, but now and then a bright closeup of someone's face will be slightly visible right after a scene change. Looks like a transparent layer overtop the new scene. But it's very brief.

Strange thing is, the trailing/ghosting etc. is not consistent. For example, I can produce this effect by bringing up the menu on a black screen, and then after closing out of the menu, i can see a faint image of the menu for a brief second. Then if i bring up the menu again, and close it out, there is no faint image. So not sure how to consistently reproduce it. Closing credits in a movie seems to be the easiest way to reproduce the trailing effect.

mr2828

12-07-06, 04:11 PM

njt thanks for the links collection. An important take-away is that this effect will be a lot more noticeable in a very dim room, and I do tend to watch my set at night in a fairly dim room with just one lamp going, so perhaps that's why I notice it then while others may not if they are watching in brightly lit rooms.

RobInBigKC

12-07-06, 11:22 PM

Blitzwise asked me a few questions via PM that I'm going to answer here so everyone can benefit:

Yes. In the Ps3 video settings dashboard, check on everything except 1080p.

You won't have that problem on this TV. Anyone who has a TV that ACCEPTS and displays 720p material has no worries. Only older HDTVs that have NO 720p ability whatsoever are having issues.

I love my PS3. :) You'll be thrilled.

Q of BanditZ (or anyone with a PS3 hooked up to their 34XBR960),

Santa Claus is bringing my kids a PS3 for Christmas and I have some questions:

Do you have your PS3 linked to your TV via a HDMI cable?

The Sony website gives the following information, "Video output in HD requires cables and an HD-compatible display, both sold separately. Copy-protected Blu-ray video discs can only output at 1080p using an HDMI cable connected to a device that is compatible with the HDCP standard. HDMI cable not included. Additional equipment may be required to use the HDMI connector."

Am I correct in thinking that the 34XBR960 will not show Blu-Ray discs played on the PS3 if you use an HDMI cable? I know that the 34XBR960 won't show 1080P but will it show Blu-Ray discs in 720P or 1080I via HDMI? Will it show them at all? Will it show them with component video cables but not with an HDMI cable?

Any insight you can provide from your hookup or any "testing" you have done be appreciated.

Thanks for your help. -- Rob

Yung

12-08-06, 12:22 AM

DJF(NJ)

12-08-06, 08:56 AM

Just ordered a Philps DVP-5960 upconverting DVD player and hope to pair it with my XBR960. I've never tried the HDMI jack on my XBR as I didn't have anything to test it with so I hope it works. Anyone here have experience with with this combo?

Yes, I had a Denon 1910 upconverting DVD player 2 years ago connected through the HDMI cable. Picture was always dark and I would always get video noise when trying to make it brighter. Ran it through the component cables w/480i and the detail and brightness was much better. The only nice thing I noticed the 1080i upconvert did was get rid of the jaggies.

There has been a few posts in this thread, as well as another dedicated thread, which talks about the HDMI input and how many people have gotten better picture quality out of the component inputs.

FWIW, mine's a 7/04 build date from Mexico.

Bitwize

12-08-06, 10:40 AM

PeterTHX

12-08-06, 02:36 PM

Am I correct in thinking that the 34XBR960 will not show Blu-Ray discs played on the PS3 if you use an HDMI cable? I know that the 34XBR960 won't show 1080P but will it show Blu-Ray discs in 720P or 1080I via HDMI? Will it show them at all? Will it show them with component video cables but not with an HDMI cable?

I have the PS3 and the XBR960, everything is pretty much 1080i thru the HDMI port.

All the disclaimer means that any 1080p playback of BD material requires HDMI. It will support gameplay at 1080p thru component.

PhilipO38

12-08-06, 10:10 PM

Hi guys i need your advise:

I had my XBR960 since last November(and we all know how great this set is) however for the first time today i picked up an HDMI cable to hook up HD Cable(and my PS3), and while doing so for the cable, i noticed the picture was alot more brighter and the colors stronger.

Now i adjusted these to more of the range that would be normal, however, can you guys say what settings use use for HDMI inputs(be it HD broadcasts or your PS3) and what you use for component input(say Xbox360).

You see i have three inputs going into this tv, the HD cable(at 1080i), and the Xbox360 vis component and now the PS3 via HDMI.(for now, i'll switch the HDMI cable each time i use the Ps3 from cable to that PS3 and back again.)

Which settings do you use for HD component input be it Xbox 360 or HD cable?

And which settings do you use for HDMI inputs like your HD broadcasts or PS3 input?

Thanks so much in advance,

Philip O

ckhirnigs113

12-08-06, 11:51 PM

PhilipO38

12-09-06, 10:33 AM

I just want to share my joy. I finally found a 34xbr960 at one of the Sony outlet stores. I was able to get it shipped with FreightQuotes for a pretty good deal. I am so excited to have found one at last. I was very close to buying the 970 at BB, but I called Sony one more time and got lucky at last. I was able to get a 5-year-in-home warranty as well, so I feel pretty safe with my purchase. Anyway, I just had to share the good news. -CK

Congrats, on what i(and many) still believe is the best HDTV under 40", that's not a 1080p set.

It's PQ is unmatched(in the size range) and you won't need to worry about LCD/Plasma or other types of TV, concerns.(ie..respons time, rainbow effects, burn in, ect).

Where did you buy the 5yr in home warranty?

Because i would love to grab one of these, even though i have had the unit since Nov. 05'.

Anyway..enjoy this amazing HDTV and please use it's HDMI input, because it's a good sized visual upgrade from it's component inputs.

PhilipO38

12-09-06, 10:39 AM

FYI, my great friend and ISF tech has confirmed that component video looks better on the 960 than video over HDMI. So I have my HD-A1 hd-dvd player hooked up via component. Only downside is no upconverting for standard DVDs, but they look fantastic regardless. Remember on a 34" screen standard DVDs are going to look much more watchable than on a 60" screen.

Now i'm really confused.

Yesterday i hooked up my HD cable(1080i) over a HDMI cable and it's clearly more sharper and has more color detail.

And that's from the setting i have it at.

Guys, please what's the deal here, because why is my HD cable looking better through the HDMI then component, yet some people swear that these are equal or the comonent has better PQ?

Which looks better? And should i have my tv calibrated for the component to look as good as the HDMI?

Because right now, watching any HD broadcast, HDMI easily looks supperior.

TIA

jpl3447

12-09-06, 12:44 PM

Congrats ckhirnigs113! You did well :)

PhilipO38: The best I can think of is that your HD box treats it's HDMI output differently than the component output, ie. different processing algorithms are being used. So maybe the HDMI is the favored connection. With some source devices there is no difference between component and HDMI. On my DVD player, tests showed that the HDMI had less errors than the component output so naturally I use the HDMI. I haven't bothered doing a comparision, largely because others before me already found out what was optimal.

Edit: Also, the settings on your TV in the Service Menu are probably different for the HDMI input than the component input. So that may play a factor too. It may just so happen that those settings result in a better picture.

RWetmore

12-09-06, 01:34 PM

Now i'm really confused.

Yesterday i hooked up my HD cable(1080i) over a HDMI cable and it's clearly more sharper and has more color detail.

And that's from the setting i have it at.

Guys, please what's the deal here, because why is my HD cable looking better through the HDMI then component, yet some people swear that these are equal or the comonent has better PQ?

Which looks better? And should i have my tv calibrated for the component to look as good as the HDMI?

Because right now, watching any HD broadcast, HDMI easily looks supperior.

TIA

You have to calibrate separately for component, especially the color offset adjustments (CROF and CBOF) but most everthing else too. Component is definately clearer, but you have to buy high quality, top of the line shielded cables to block out any interference or ringing, to see the full benefit. I recommend a great set from Blue Jeans Cable.

I have completely switched to component on my set, and won't go back to HDMI.

ckhirnigs113

12-09-06, 04:38 PM

PhilipO38: I was able to get the 5-year warranty directly from the Sony Outlet store where I bought the set.

When my tv comes in next week I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions about the set-up. This will be my first HD set, so that alone is exciting to me. The fact that I am getting what many consider the reference standard for HD is just icing on the cake! Thanks again for all the info you have all shared on this forum. I would have probably been suckered into one of the cheap lcd's otherwise.

liquidneba

12-09-06, 06:36 PM

Ah the old "trailing" issue. Is it normal? Well my friend, wars have been fought over less. Lol.

Let me preface the following by saying that there are some owners that feel this is not normal and categorcally state that this "issue" does not occur on their sets. Sadly, attempts to discuss the issue often degrade into accustions that people bought their set from the wrong store, used the wrong calibrator, are stupid for posting about the issue instead of getting service, etc etc.

If you you use the "Search this thread" feature above, look up (trailing, ghosting, streaking and phosphor) and you will get a good overview of different opinions from 960 owners. In one extreme case, you will read about one owner going through several repair/replace cycles only to see precisely the same "issue" across several tubes.

Some other links to provide background on the issue (some relate to CRT PC monitors):
Mention of streaking as a quantifiable issue in CRT monitors: http://reviews.cnet.com/Labs/4520-6603_7-5021089-1.html

Mention of the existance of "image lag" on some CRTs monitors and claim that lag may be related to phosphors: http://www.displaymate.com/flicker.html

Mention of the issue in the 800 (910's predecessor): http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=318280

Another attempt to discuss the issue with the 910 (960's predecessor) : http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=323732

Interesting post on the matter: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7218267&&#post7218267

Subsection on the 910's Phosphor Trails/Persistence/Lag: http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=368718

Hope this helps you form an opinion and course of action.

NJT is describing me. I'm on my third Sony XBR960. People who say they can't see it are living in ignorant bliss. I wish I could too. At this point, I just ignore it. I love the TV nonetheless. It doesn't improve with time, the best remedy is to ignore, otherwise it will drive you crazy.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6470733&&#post6470733

RobInBigKC

12-10-06, 10:47 PM

I have the PS3 and the XBR960, everything is pretty much 1080i thru the HDMI port.

All the disclaimer means that any 1080p playback of BD material requires HDMI. It will support gameplay at 1080p thru component.

Thanks for the information PeterTHX.

-- Rob

PeterTHX

12-11-06, 02:31 AM

Your welcome Rob :)

Bitwize

12-11-06, 08:17 AM

I just picked up the Sony BDP-S1, so now I'm in both HD camps...heh. Both my HD-A1 and BDP-S1 are hooked up via component inputs. After a full ISF calibration, component looks slightly better than HDMI.

I have to say, despite the bad I've heard, the BDP-S1 produces an exceptional image. Having compared it to the HD-A1, I'd say they are fairly equal when it comes to PQ.

I almost got a PS3 for the main purpose of using it as a Blu-ray player, but I decided a standalone would suit me better. A Best Buy 12% off coupon assisted me in snagging the BDP-S1 at a "good" price.

BRY1080P

12-11-06, 07:40 PM

I know this is probably hard to do, but is their anyone on this thread that knows where to get a hand on a 34XBR960???

ckhirnigs113

12-11-06, 08:52 PM

My advice is to call the Sony Outlet stores on a regular basis because they are still getting them in every once and a while. I just bought one from them last Friday at an incredible price. It may take a while, but I'm sure it's worth the effort. -CK

jpl3447

12-11-06, 09:03 PM

Go to eBay, setup or login to your account, put the terms KD-34XBR960 and KD34XBR960 on your favorites list, and have email notification enabled for when one comes up for sale. Ninety percent of the time the sales are for local pickup only so you want to wait and see if one pops up within driving distance.

That is the best way so far to get one. There is one up for bidding in Las Vegas right now :)

Other than that go to your local electronics boutiques and go to a Best Buy or Circuit City and ask them to do a search in your area for one. About two months ago I managed to find one new in the box at Best Buy and had them transfer it to my store in Tulsa, OK from Brownsville, TX. Good luck!

Edit: What he said too.

InYourEyes

12-11-06, 09:33 PM

I know this is probably hard to do, but is their anyone on this thread that knows where to get a hand on a 34XBR960???
You will have a much higher chance finding a Sony KD-34XBR960 than a Toshiba 34HFX84. I still see several XBR960s in several outlet retailers. Some do show up on eBay and Craiglist often.

PhilipO38

12-13-06, 04:15 PM

Guys i'm looking for a smaller HDTV for my bedroom, but the XBR960 has spoiled me. I have a 01' model of a Samsung 27" HDTV, but it comes noware near this Sony and since i also need to shrink the picture for widescreen, it's PQ gets even worse.

What is the best PQ HDTV set available in the size range of 23" to 30", that would come closest to the PQ of my XBR960?

I really need a good quality second HDTV, because i'll be doing half my gaming(360 & PS3) on that one as well as the XBR960.

TIA

PhilipO38

12-13-06, 04:52 PM

I was looking at the HDTV's from BB and CC websites and nothing under 34" comes close, spec wise to the XBR960.

Now i can understand this, however i'm not sure to go with a 30" CRT(BB's Insignia is only $550) which is rated 800*1080(approx.) or an LCD(Sony Bravia line) which are 1366*768.

I'm sure some PS3 games i'll grab will be using 1080p, of which the LCD would have to down convert to 720, while the 30" CRT's would be missing out on more lines of horizontal resolution.

I need to choose from 800*1080 or 1366*768, and take into account the LCD's response times and black level quality.

I just wish getting a second(smaller) HDTV was as simple as grabbing the XBR960, of which was the reference HDTV under 40"

btw: I found this one 1080p LCD for $1500, and i'm wondering how it stacks up against the XBR960, PQ wise. It says it delivers 'true' 1080p, which would be one advantage over the XBR960, but i'm wondering how it compares in other aspects.

Here's the link:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7749653&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat95100050022&id=1140394400806

Snooptonydog

12-14-06, 12:20 AM

PeterTHX

12-14-06, 02:46 AM

Westinghouse is absolute crap Philip. Stay away!!! Going from the 960 to that would be like going from filet mignon to some roadkill.

jpl3447

12-14-06, 04:52 AM

My son scratched the living daylights out of my xbr and I noticed that it looks like just glass and not the special optical screen. How do I replace the outer glass that has been absolutely destroyed?

I tried to see if could easily take it off but I can't. Seems entire set is bolted and to take glass plate off it would require some expertise.

I ran into a scratched display model 960 a few months ago and thought that there was a glass plate in the front too. But a little checking turned out that there is no protective glass... it is the tube itself!

If you don't mind telling, how did he scratch the glass up? I think someone at the Best Buy must have accidently careened a dolly into the display.

tvh3ad

12-14-06, 08:24 AM

What is the best PQ HDTV set available in the size range of 23" to 30", that would come closest to the PQ of my XBR960?

You don't have much choice: plasmas and RP sets don't come that small, so the only games in town are CRT (not many HD sets left) and LCD. I'd try cross-posting in the LCD forum if I were you.

wbrett

12-14-06, 09:08 AM

Since the tube/glass/screen has come up... what should I clean the glass with? Is it okay to use Windex?

bschmidt25

12-14-06, 11:34 AM

I was also looking at the Best Buy model at one point for the same thing you were - just a small HDTV for my bedroom, but read nothing but horrible reviews about it (very poor PQ, inability to use universal remotes with it). I read that it is actually built by Sylvania.

Your best bet might be to look around for an older Sony 30" CRT like the KV-30HS420 - there are tons of them out there. I've also seen a few KD-30XS955s, which would be the best option in my opinion. It physically looks the same as the XBR960, has a built in HD tuner, and I believe it has the SFP tube as well. Can anyone verify?

ckhirnigs113

12-14-06, 02:51 PM

The KD-30XS955 definately has the Super Fine Pitch display. I was looking at this set but decided I wanted the larger 34" model.

dawgfan06

12-14-06, 04:52 PM

Christmas came early for me today. I found a 960 on craigs list with the matching stand and three years remaining on a in home warranty. I picked the set up today and it is in VERY good condition. I feel so lucky.
I have a question. When we were loading it, I broke the plastic lock that holds the strap on the stand in the rear. Does anyone know where I might find a replacement?
Thanks!!

justsc

12-14-06, 06:49 PM

Since the tube/glass/screen has come up... what should I clean the glass with? Is it okay to use Windex?
NO!

Use water with the smallest amount of hand soap. No glass cleaners or strong chemicals. And put the solution on the cloth first, not the tv.

wbrett

12-15-06, 09:38 AM

Thanks justsc. Just out of curiosity.... wondering why... is there some sort of anti-glare layer or somesuch?

justsc

12-15-06, 11:01 AM

Thanks justsc. Just out of curiosity.... wondering why... is there some sort of anti-glare layer or somesuch?
Yes - to the best of my knowledge.

Those that have had the sad experience of rubbing off part of the layer have played he!! trying to rub the rest off to get it consistent.

Just handle with care. You can also use those anit-static gloves with the soft fabric palms that just take the dust off. Those can be used between washings.

Enjoy! :)

PhilipO38

12-15-06, 09:56 PM

I see this one listed(craigslist):

KV-30HS420

I believe this has the SFP tube, correct?

I'm guess this will give me the same quality as the XBR960, correct?

The guy selling it is asking around $450.

(I don't have time to look up through Sony's site, because i'm watching my 3 yr old son now).

TIA

ckhirnigs113

12-15-06, 10:24 PM

The HS420 doesn't have the Super Fine Pitch display. The models ending with xs955 have the fine pitch along with the xbr960.

foxfan

12-17-06, 12:19 AM

I managed to get Sony's factory center in St-Laurent, QC to accept my TV before the warranty went out to fix the cold tuner problem. They changed a Capacitor (ceramic 1000000P) and Coil choke 33UH.

After I took it home and set it up, I was scared to death when I turned it on and saw the info banner going off the screen (I used to see the full rectangles). I thought they had ruined my set with magnets or something and that the top was horribly overscanned. However, I put the overscan pattern from my DVE DVD on and it looked OK. I later went in the service menu to temporarily set the TV at negative overscan to see everything, and noticed that the info bar is now made that way. I don't remember seeing an option anywhere to make it smaller.

Is the different info bar size part of a firmware upgrade that they would have downloaded by the Sony tech?

datamage

12-18-06, 02:01 PM

Quick question guys..

For using the PS2 on the XBR960, which DRC mode would provide the best IQ? And aside from the DRC mode, what would be nice Reality/Clarity settings? Thanks for the info, I've read through this thread, and have searched for DRC-related posts, but I'm still unsure.

fred33

12-18-06, 09:42 PM

Has anyone noticed a faint blue-green glow at the bottom of the screen on their xbr960?
I see it when the screen goes dark in between shows on every channel

P

proroc

12-18-06, 10:36 PM

Hello,

I wanted to ask you guys a question about this tv. When I hook up my coax from the wall and scan for digital channels they come in red and blue over black like wearing 3d glasses. No hd channels come in at all not even locals. Anyone else have this problem? Do you think my cable co. is encrypting most QAM channels?

Thanks!

foxfan

12-19-06, 01:09 AM

Another problem after having my tuner problem fixed and firmware updated... my HDMI connection no longer works!

Anyone know what the problem could be?

proroc

12-19-06, 11:49 AM

How do you get your firmware updated? Does it fix anything major?

Thanks!

foxfan

12-19-06, 01:33 PM

I had Sony's repair center fix the common problem with the tuner. They took the opportunity to update the firmware at the same time. As far as I know, the only thing it changed is the size of the info-bar. I think it was intended to correct a problem with Cablecards, but I have never had the chance to use that option.

Istari1

12-19-06, 02:37 PM

jpl3447

12-19-06, 04:43 PM

It should be able to handle the weight. For a while I had a 35 pound center channel atop mine. The speaker had a rod in the rear that adjusted down to rest on the back of the TV thus stabilizing it.

I had to move it up about a foot away from the TV because during dynamic peaks in the program material these bands would start radiating downward on the screen. Yes, the speaker was magnetically shielded (an Infinity c360). But I guess it doesn't mean 100% shielding.

Each speaker is different I guess so if banding occurs then a way needs to be figured out to put a little distance between the TV and the speaker.

LDBecker

12-20-06, 12:07 PM

Anyone out there got a center channel speaker resting ontop of their XBR960? I am upgrading my HT from a plain stereo system to at least a 3.1 and the center channel I got is a beast. At 46lbs I really dont know if it can sit ontop of the TV safely. I know this set is a beast itself, but 46 lbs is pretty heavy. Anyone have any experience with this, or done it themselves? Why doesnt Sony list the TVs weight bearing capacity ;)

I bought a small shelf that's made for this. It has two leveling feet and some adhesive velcro pads that keep it from sliding. It works well for my Energy Veritas 2.0C, which is over 40 lbs. I have no distortion issues with this speaker/tv combo, but the same speaker on my older Sony 32" SBR non-HD tv had some issues. I had to build a 4" riser to get it high enough above the TV tube. With the 960, it rests right on the tv with no problems. Different speakers may have other issues.
I bought the shelf at Rockler Woodworking, but I recently saw the same thing at Best Buy - under $20 as I recall...

Larry Becker

foxfan

12-20-06, 01:04 PM

Well, my HDMI is now fixed. Turns out some wires in the TV were disconnected while they were putting things back together. Hope it stays fine.

After having it for two years, I'm thinking of maybe getting convergence fixed and have the set calibrated... :rolleyes:

tvh3ad

12-20-06, 04:00 PM

After having it for two years, I'm thinking of maybe getting convergence fixed and have the set calibrated... :rolleyes:

I've also had mine for 2 years. I just had it calibrated a couple of weeks ago and it made a huge difference -- wish I'd done it long ago...

foxfan

12-20-06, 08:22 PM

Now that my HDMI connection is working again, I plugged in a new Sony DVD player and noticed that there is a lot less overscan with that at 1080i than the former player I had plugged in 480p component. This is great, because previously, if I would reduce overscan to make the DVD look OK, my regular TV would be underscanned. Now I can adjust it so that it is appropriate to both.

ckhirnigs113

12-20-06, 08:25 PM

RWetmore

12-21-06, 10:35 AM

BTV Mark

12-21-06, 10:56 AM

I just got my 960 today, and right out of the box it has a large discoloration all along the left side of the screen. This is regardless of the source. I have it plugged directly into the wall, and I have moved the speakers away from the screen (even though they are shielded). I really have no idea what the problem is.

Does anyone know what this could be? I read somewhere in this mega-thread about the "landing" settings within the service menu. Should I take the plunge into the service menu or just get a Sony tech to come check it out? Thanks, CK

That could be caused by an unshielded speaker. If so, try moving the speaker farther away from the set.

Another possibility is residual magnetism. The set has a built-in degausser. So turning the set on a few times may help. Some people have reported the degausser seems to work better if you unplug the set for a few minutes and then plug it back in and turn it on.

I had this problem, too--and I've seen it with other TV's, too. I cured mine by using an old hand-held cassette tape bulk eraser. (With the set operating, turn on the eraser, slowly bring it to the set, and slowly pull it away before turning it off.) This was a very effective cure, and did not cause any damage. Kind of scary, though, because the magnetism causes a "rainbow" effect and if you do it incorrectly will make your problem worse.

Mark

DSperber

12-21-06, 11:17 AM

Does anyone know what this could be? I read somewhere in this mega-thread about the "landing" settings within the service menu. Should I take the plunge into the service menu or just get a Sony tech to come check it out? Thanks, CKDon't fool around with anything yet. If moving your speakers away doesn't cure the problem just call Sony and have them schedule a warranty visit by a factory technician (assuming the set is under total warranty, which it certainly is if it was new and within 30 days of purchase).

If something is really wrong the Sony tech should be able to fix it at no cost to you no matter how severe the cause or solution. I think that's the best course of action for these "out of the box" issues. The technician can also perhaps deal with some other adjustments that might be needed, like convergence and geometry problems in selected areas of the picture that might require magnets to resolve (or service menu adjustments for some other simpler problems).

Save your service menu adventures for a bit later when your set is "stabilized" and at least operating at an "acceptable minimum level" (using user menu adjustments).

Nitru

12-22-06, 08:08 PM

ckhirnigs113

12-23-06, 02:20 AM

Thanks for all the advice. I know the problem is not related to the speakers because it was present with the speakers nowhere near it. There is already photos of my exact same problem earlier in this thread. The only difference is that my discoloration goes all along the left side of the screen. The link to it is: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7875184&highlight=blotches#post7875184

I got this set refurbished from Sony, so I assumed it would be working correctly out of the box, but of course that is not the case. I guess I will just call Sony and schedule a service appointment. Does the tech have to use magnets to fix this problem? I just don't want him replacing stuff that will have no effect on my problem.

DSperber

12-23-06, 03:38 AM

Thanks for all the advice. I know the problem is not related to the speakers because it was present with the speakers nowhere near it. As many of us have observed, that symptom sure does come from speakers mostly.

On the other hand, I had a similar issue with a 35" Mitsubishi that my sister had, and she had placed the two small satellite speakers from a Bose 321 system about three feet from the upper corners of the set. Somehow, there was that "colored corner" on the upper left of the screen (but not on the right) that normally seems magnetically caused. But in this case it only happened on one side of the set despite the fact that the two speakers where equidistant. And the coloration never went away even after the set de-gaussed itself and warmed up for quite a while.

And, as with your story, even when I disconnected the speakers (and moved away the sub-woofer which was under the set), that colored corner seemed permanent. No explanation, and no solution... although it first started when we installed the Bose system. Hmmm...

There is already photos of my exact same problem earlier in this thread.That set has an overscan issue as well. Note the "ABC HD" bug in the lower right corner. That is NOT the way it should look.

I got this set refurbished from Sony, so I assumed it would be working correctly out of the box, but of course that is not the case. I guess I will just call Sony and schedule a service appointment.That's your best bet.

Do you have the problem even if you remove the external speakers entirely, and revert to the built-in speakers in the set? I wonder if it's a magnet problem in the TV's speakers?

That sure does look like speaker magnetic field work.

Does the tech have to use magnets to fix this problem? I just don't want him replacing stuff that will have no effect on my problem.The magnets you speak of (permalloy) are not pertinent to this issue. They are used to correct vertical convergence problems (i.e. horizontal lines with colored glows above and below) in the picture and are fastened to the back of the picture tube at appropriate locations (by tape).

Your problem could perhaps be a mis-shielded internal speaker.

R8ders2K

12-23-06, 06:47 AM

Nitru

12-23-06, 07:15 AM

^ - I managed to do it without the remote by using the channel fix function and going to one of the cable channels, then running the auto tuner. I will probably still get the remote though, thanks.

Now I have to deal with a blue retrace line problem. The black screens have a blueish tint and show blue retrace lines. I searched and it seems theres a knob you can turn it down with but it's risky? Where is it and can I turn it down just a bit to make the black look less blue and get rid of the retrace lines? Any info would be appreciated.

JimmyWang214

12-23-06, 01:00 PM

gutwrencher

12-23-06, 01:07 PM

I've always had some sort of small magnetic problem but a few small magnets taped to just the right spot on the outside of the case seemed to work.

R8ders2K

12-23-06, 02:10 PM

I read something similar wayyyy earlier in this thread, but I currently have a slight reddish discoloration at the upper right corner of my xbr960. My tv is out of warranty (2 years right?) is there anything I can do or will it go away?

FWIW, I also had that reddish discoloration in the upper right corner when I first got my 960, almost a couple of months ago. But it went away after the TV warmed up.

Have you tried unplugging it?

Nitru

12-24-06, 11:45 AM

I found the focus and g2 (screen) pots in the back right corner of the set. VERY slightly turning the g2 pot clockwise got rid of the blue and red rescan lines and got rid of the tints in the black screen. They had some white paint on there or something to either indicate the position (or that I touched it - hope it's not a warranty thing). It's odd they'd have it set too high by default especially since it's not good for the lifespan of the tube. I also was able to optimize the focus (again with a very slight adjustment). The picture looks great now. Just needs some touching up and a little geometry work. Overall it was a great bargain for the price, but I had to drive out 2.5 hours with a gas guzzling SUV to get it. ;)

ckhirnigs113

12-25-06, 12:17 AM

Nitru, Are you saying you fixed the discolorations that I described in my earlier post? I would love to get some more details about what you did exactly.

I still have the warranty, so I don't want to void it by opening up the tv. I also don't want some clueless technician fumbling through solutions to my problem that could possibly do more damage. My main goal right now is getting info to tell the tech when he comes to my house to work on the tv. I would like to tell him what I have read here, and maybe he will take my advice.

I guess this shows that I have little hope that the tech will know what he's doing. I live in a rather small college town, and I doubt there is anyone with any experience with this tv. I'll just keep my fingers crossed for now and try to get more advice from you guys. -CK

HDTimeShifter

12-25-06, 09:06 AM

I don't know if this is the correct place, but since there is no longer a 34XBR800 thread, I'll post here. I bought a wide-screen 34XBR800 HD-capable TV (the predecessor to the 960?) 3 years ago and wonder if it is "digital-cable-ready". According to Comcast,

http://www.comcast.com/customers/faq/FaqDetails.ashx?ID=2664

"Do I need a CableCARD or a special HD set-top box to view HD programming if I have a digital-cable-ready HDTV set?

Digital-cable-ready HDTV sets have built-in HD capability so no special set-top box is required to receive HD signals for broadcast digital channels. You would need to use either a set-top box or a CableCARD to receive non-broadcast Comcast Digital Cable and/or HDTV channels that are not available on the basic service tier."

So if it is "digital-cable-ready", how do I view HD channels, or does "digital-cable-ready" mean it has to have a QAM tuner built in, which I doubt I have?

PeterTHX

12-25-06, 01:03 PM

You need to rent a cable card from your provider.

You can receive unscrambled (re: local) HD channels, but they will not be on the assigned channels that you would get with either a card or a box (you'd get them on channels such as 79.3, 81.2, etc)

RobMeyer1

12-25-06, 09:09 PM

DSperber

12-25-06, 09:25 PM

You can use component cables to send HD programming from the HD cable box to your TV.Actually, the 800 has a DVI connector as well. So depending on the cable box the DVI option also exists.

I connected my cousin's 800 to a SA8300 via DVI (HDMi-to-DVI cable) expecting it to be wonderful, but there was some kind a "horizontal rolling" interference pattern (kind of waves of subtle color moving from right to left across the screen that ruined the picture). I don't know if the issue was the early 1st-generation DVI connection or something in the SA8300 or what.

So I went back to component video cables and the video disturbance disappeared.

But in theory, at least, the DVI option also exists.

bschmidt25

12-26-06, 11:33 AM

I just got my hands on a 960, but without the original remote. I can't seem to tune in to any cable channels. Only the "VHF/UHF" coax input seems to work, but the "cable" coax input doesn't. When I run the auto-tuner, it labels my source as Antenna instead of cable, and only finds basic channels. I know there's an "ANT" button to switch between tuners, is this what I need? How can I do this without the remote?

I had the same dilemma, except mine was set to cable and i wanted to tune in the OTA digital channels and couldn't. As far as I know, there is no way to without having a Sony remote with the ANT button on it. I borrowed the remote from a KV-40XBR800 (basically the same as the XBR960's remote) to switch the antenna input and make sure that it worked, then just ended up ordering a new remote. You can get a new RM-Y201, which is specific to the XBR960, for ~$40 from Sony Direct Parts. Just go to sony.com and you should be able to get to that website from there. Hope this helps.

fred33

12-26-06, 03:28 PM

HDMI: is there a firmware update for this on the xbr960?

HDTVFanAtic

12-28-06, 03:27 AM

I read something similar wayyyy earlier in this thread, but I currently have a slight reddish discoloration at the upper right corner of my xbr960. My tv is out of warranty (2 years right?) is there anything I can do or will it go away?

I am now seeing many people note their set is out of warranty (which makes sense) but did you guys really not buy the extended warranty on this set? I know I was pounding the table about it for reasons such as this. Mine has so paid for itself with the $200 I spent.

tvh3ad

12-28-06, 07:43 AM

I am now seeing many people note their set is out of warranty (which makes sense) but did you guys really not buy the extended warranty on this set? I know I was pounding the table about it for reasons such as this. Mine has so paid for itself with the $200 I spent.

For those not totally out of warranty: if you registered your TV with Sony and did not buy a warranty when the set was new, you'll probably start getting extended-warranty offers from them in the mail a few months before yours expires. The offer is for an additional three years of in-home complete coverage for $300ish.

mr2828

12-28-06, 10:03 PM

Anyone know if the 960 remote control can control an Xbox 360 for playing DVDs?

I'm getting the HD-DVD addon soon, but for now figured I'd check.

Bitwize

12-29-06, 01:27 PM

howdy! i've been lovin' my 960 with the xbox 360/hd-dvd add-on and the ps3. i'm curious as to what others have set their vertical and horizontal picture size to in the service menu. my horizontal value is 40 and my vertical is 22. i am noticing a very slight glow near the far left and right edges of my screen. it is most noticeble with 2:35.1/2:40.1 movie material in brighter scenes. seems this brings more emphasis to the edge-glow if you will. regardless of how large i make the horizontal size, the glow is still there. it gets better with higher values, but is never completely removed. just wondering if this is just a normal occurrence with the 960. it's not a terribly annoying effect, but noticeable to a critical eye, especially in bright scenes.

i'm also finding the phosphor decay to be far less than desirable. funny this is, i was never really bothered by it until after having an SXRD and going "backwards" to direct view again. i mean, the decay is very gradual. the best way to see this is turning out all the lights, bringing up a bright scene for 10 seconds or so, and then turning the 960 off. i can see a blurry "ghost" image of the movie scene for quite a long time, as much as several minutes. it graduallly clears up but is annoying. the phosphor trails are something i'm dealing with, but the "ghosting" is really getting to me. a movie with bright material against a dark background really brings emphasis to the "ghosting." on a scene change, i'll reallly notice a transparent layering effect as the previous scene is apparent for several seconds overtop the new scene. okay, enough venting and whining. just looking for some insight/reassurance here. normal for 960? or defect? i've got around 8 months left on the warranty and this is my only tv at the moment.

Filipinoyakuza

12-29-06, 02:29 PM

So I just got my 60 gig PS3 last night and hooked it to my KD-34XBR960 using $10 HDMI cable I bought off monoprice.com.

My impressions so far:

Games I played last night:
-Resistance Fall Of Man
-Motorstorm downloaded demo
-Gran Turismo HD downloaded demo
-F1 Championship Racing downloaded demo
-NBA 07 downloaded demo
-Fight Night Round 3

Out of all the games I played last night the game that impressed me the most with graphics and gameplay was Resistance Fall Of Man.Both the demos for Gran Turismo HD and Motorstorm were very impressive also.Fight night round 3 I'm glad I rented that game first instead of spending $60+ for that game.

PS3 as a Blu-Ray player I havent had the time to watch a blu-ray movie.I got Superman Returns and The 5th Element blu-ray movies coming to me in the mail through gameznflicks and will watch those this weekend.

HDMI handshake between the HDMI cable and my TV I havent expericened some off the issues I've seen some posters post here such as, no sound or video, or constant flickering issue when the PS3 is connected to this TV through the HDMI cable.When I first setup my PS3 last night I connected the PS3 to my HDMI cable and went through the initial PS3 setup and downloaded the the latest PS3 update version 1.32 and my PS3 was optimized to run @ 1080i.

My questions are the following:

-What are the best settings for my HDMI input in pro mode for when playing games on PS3 and watching blu-ray movie using my PS3?Can some people who have the same setup with the PS3 and this TV post what settings they are using for the HDMI input?
-Will I get a better PQ using a HDMI cable from bettercables.com ?
-Does a HDMI switch device from monoprice.com that allows me to connect 2 or 5 devices using a HDMI cable.Will this type of device work on this TV.Since this TV only has one HDMI port.
-I've had this TV for a little over 2 years now.How can I get the Sony warranty extended for my TV? I did register my TV after I bought it on sonystyle.com

mr2828

12-29-06, 04:38 PM

I just also got a PS3 today.

Regarding HDMI, it's a digital connection so "better cables" makes no difference unless you are having a problem with your picture blinking out or something. Either the digital 1s and 0s make it to the tv, or they don't, there is no in between like in the analog world. Stick with the cheap cables - I am and it works great.

For switching, because I now have 4 hd devices, I ordered today the Joytech 540c (Xbox 360 type design) from walmart , which switches component stuff and also has an ethernet hub built in. It has gotten good reviews here on AVS. I'll plug all the ethernet into it and just run one line to my main router, and also plug all the component into it and only use one component input on the 960.

I noticed the PS3 has no infrared input - is there a bluetooth remote control available yet for it?

Bitwize

12-29-06, 08:05 PM

yes there is a blu-ray remote. just picked one up the other day. nice design and works very well.

foxfan

12-29-06, 09:40 PM

Regarding HDMI, it's a digital connection so "better cables" makes no difference unless you are having a problem with your picture blinking out or something. Either the digital 1s and 0s make it to the tv, or they don't, there is no in between like in the analog world. Stick with the cheap cables - I am and it works great.

Yeah, but use them at your own risk! I've seen at least two DVD players ruined by an HDMI connector breaking off and getting stuck inside the plugs when low-end "Rocketfish" cables from Best Buy were used. :eek:

Ladd

12-29-06, 10:03 PM

For the edification of the community and those actually interested, please recall my previous postings with photos a few months ago about the large color blotches in the corners of my set. Some folks say they solved the problem on their sets with Landing adjustments, but that didn't work for me. Several trips by a local Sony Authorized servicer didn't help.

Sony said the only left to do was replace the tube, but none of the servicers in my area would do it. Sony then offered to replace my TV with a refurbished model or credit me pennies on the dollar towards a new LCD or micro-display set -- I reluctantly accepted the offer of a refurbished set.

The first replacement set arrived on November 14, unfortunately in three pieces:

http://www.windinthetrees.com/xbr960/Resources/img5193a.jpeg

Sony said a second, replacement refurbished set would immediately be ordered. More than six weeks later, here's what arrived this evening:

http://www.windinthetrees.com/xbr960/Resources/img5339.jpeg

More photos and details of this increasingly unpleasant ordeal can be found HERE (http://www.windinthetrees.com/xbr960/xbr960.html)

Feh.

S. Hiller

12-29-06, 10:30 PM

Horrible! Maybe Sony could be persuaded to pick up the original set to replace the tube at one of their own repair facilities...

mr2828

12-30-06, 12:50 AM

DSperber

12-30-06, 01:25 AM

and also plug all the component into it and only use one component input on the 960.Just in passing, I too have a number of component video devices that I feed to my XBR960.

While INPUT5/INPUT6 are identical, the setup in service menu is different for 480p and 720p/1080i. In theory, by segregating your types of input by resolution so as to use INPUT5 and INPUT6 separately for true type of input, your service menu tweaks (if you do any) might produce better overall results.

Also, it is definitely true that in PRO mode the user menu settings for INPUT5 and INPUT6 are totally separate. So optimizing how the picture looks for the two inputs is independently controlled.

I don't have an upscaling DVD player so I've chosen to connect my 480p player to INPUT5 all by itself. Settings up INPUT5 in the user menu, and its corresponding service menu settings when I'm actually watching something in 480p (either DVE for test patterns or an actual DVD for "live" final touches), has produced a very fine result for DVDs.

Then the rest of my 720p/1080i component video sources (DVR, JVC 40K D-VHS, JVC DT100U D-VHS) I run through a Zektor HDS4 switch and then on to INPUT6 of the XBR960. Again, I now have INPUT6 separately adjustable in the user menu as well as the corresponding 720p/1080i settings in the service menu. Again, the results here are specific to 720p/1080i and INPUT6.

You might consider that type of source routing, since the characteristics of these boxes are each a bit different and you might find it more pleasing with respect to visual results to set up two switched groups of things with similar video resolutions and presentations and send them to INPUT5 and INPUT6 separately. This allows you to tune the XBR960 separately for the two source device groups.

Filipinoyakuza

12-30-06, 01:53 AM

For the PS3 owners, here is something I ran across in another thread for generating some bonus HD calibration pics:

Do you have Talladega Nights with your PS3? If so, bring up the menu and then punch in 7669. (Only works with all Sony disks I have) This brings up some calibration screens. The first screen has a gray bar between two black bars --- set your brightness so that the grey bar becomes invisible and then make it just barely visible (+1 to brightness).

The 2nd screen shows you how much detail your plasma is capable of showing, if some parts flicker, it means the downscaling is introducing flicker.

The 3rd screen has a gray sweep - set your contrast to balance out the range of blacks and whites in there - ie: try to minimize the solid black and solid white areas - this keeps the maximum range of luma you can get on your TV.

Hey thanks. I do have Talladega Nights blu-ray.I went into 7669.My question is when I'm in this calibration mode do I have to adjust the HDMI input settings through my TV menu?HDMI input on the XBR960 is input 7.

Here is what I current have my settings set to for HDMI input 7 on my TV:

Pro mode:
Picture: 47
Brightness: 45
Color: 29
Hue: 0
Sharpness: 32
Color Temp: Warm
ClearEdgeVM: Medium

Can u post what you have your HDMI input 7 settings u have your set currently on your TV for watching Blu-Ray movies and for when you play games on PS3 if you do?

Sorry if I sound like a newb.I never have calibrated my TV before.

DJF(NJ)

12-30-06, 08:41 AM

DSperber

12-30-06, 09:18 AM

Hey thanks. I do have Talladega Nights blu-ray.I went into 7669.My question is when I'm in this calibration mode do I have to adjust the HDMI input settings through my TV menu?HDMI input on the XBR960 is input 7.I believe the description of the brightness adjustment technique using that black/gray bar is the same as the Pluge bar you might find on various test patterns from the DVE (Digital Video Essentials) and AVIA calibration DVDs.

And yes, you use these test patterns included on your new BRD "Talladega Nights" as if they were from DVR or AVIA as reference material to adjust the video parameters that appear in the "user menu" of the XBR960.

Here is what I current have my settings set to for HDMI input 7 on my TV:

Pro mode:
Picture: 47
Brightness: 45
Color: 29
Hue: 0
Sharpness: 32
Color Temp: Warm
ClearEdgeVM: MediumYou will find much more very detailed information about micro-level adjustments for the XBR960 in the other thread specifically devoted to that type of material.

But as far as user-menu adjustments, I think most of the people who have been watching and tweaking the XBR960 for several years will agree that if you're feeding HDMI-quality input on INPUT7 then you need to refine your settings as shown above.

Not that my settings will necessarily go along with your tastes or source content (or internal service menu settings, for that matter) but just for your own reference as something else to try (and possibly make your own final adjustments to, until you're satisfied with how things look) here are mine (which are very similar to my settings for INPUT6 where I feed 720p/1080i component video sources):

Mode PRO
Picture 35
Brightness 32
Color 31
Hue 0
Sharpness MIN
Color Temp COOL
Clear Edge OFF
Adv Color Axis DEFAULT

Note SHARPNESS=MIN, which is very important for the highest quality display of high-quality HD content. You don't want to add anything artificial to the image, which is precisely what non-zero SHARPNESS does.

Also, turning down our PICTURE and BRIGHTNESS will provide a much more detailed and realistic image... but only if you view things in a dark room. If you watch in broad daylight my settings will cause you to scratch your head and say "huh?" as the screen will seem very dark and with almost no image. But just like in a movie theater, turn your lights off and close the shades (if daytime) when you watch HD and the properly adjusted image will appear alive and 3D on the XBR960.

Finally, there is a critical adjustment down in the service menu that improves skin color dramatically, i.e. it eliminates the factory-preset red bias which is characteristic of Sony CRT sets. Skin tone will appear truly human-like and not as if the people onscreen have a fever. Since you haven't ever "calibrated" a set before I won't bedazzle you with service menu jargon, but if you go to that other very large thread on "Sony tweaking" (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=531494) and start reading slowly, you will eventually learn how to get into the service menu and do things.

And when you're ready, you'll want to adjust:

RYR 0-15 13 (8)
RYB 0-15 15 (9)
GYR 0-15 5 (9)
GYB 0-15 4 (6)

where the first column identifies the four service menu items, the second column shows the range of possible values, and the third column shows the values you should set with the original factory-preset Sony values in parentheses.

I happen to like skin tone with the above four values (and the complementary user menu settings for color, color temp, and color axis, as I've enumerated above). Others go with 14, 14, 6,4 and are also happy. Either way, we all agree that the factory preset values are wrong and produce a noticeably reddish tint to human skin color, aka "red push". And it needs adjusting.

GlenC

12-30-06, 01:57 PM

......i'm also finding the phosphor decay to be far less than desirable. funny this is, i was never really bothered by it until after having an SXRD and going "backwards" to direct view again. i mean, the decay is very gradual. the best way to see this is turning out all the lights, bringing up a bright scene for 10 seconds or so, and then turning the 960 off. i can see a blurry "ghost" image of the movie scene for quite a long time, as much as several minutes. it graduallly clears up but is annoying. the phosphor trails are something i'm dealing with, but the "ghosting" is really getting to me. a movie with bright material against a dark background really brings emphasis to the "ghosting." on a scene change, i'll reallly notice a transparent layering effect as the previous scene is apparent for several seconds overtop the new scene. okay, enough venting and whining. just looking for some insight/reassurance here. normal for 960? or defect? i've got around 8 months left on the warranty and this is my only tv at the moment.You may be using the TV with contrast too high for the viewing environment. The 960 is capable of luminance levels way too high for a dimly lit room. In this situation, with the lower black levels, the phosphor speed can be an issue. when you use bias lighting and some ambient light in the room, the needed increase in black level to see all the detail can partially mask the issue. You might experiment with lowering the "Picture" setting and adjusting "Brightness", they interact to see if the problem lessens. If you are viewing in a dark room with high contrast/picture, it can be a little fatiguing and uncomfortable to watch for long periods.

Tkbalt

12-30-06, 02:46 PM

Tkbalt

12-31-06, 09:32 AM

Has anybody tried the XBR 4 stand for their 960?

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=9H1UPacOzoxUiOKZPRxeNugfY6KlcPzroWg=?CategoryName= tv_StandsScreens_27%22to32%22TVStands&ProductSKU=SU34XBR4&TabName=comp&DCMP=FROOGLE

I need more room than what the XBR3 stand provides. Also - the Sony stands are only 18 high. Is that high enough? Most of the aftermarket stands I have been looking at are 22+ inches high???

HonestAbe52

12-31-06, 11:51 AM

I have this stand - DVD player, TV and VCR all fit just fine on it.

HonestAbe52

12-31-06, 11:55 AM

How could it you ask. How could the vast moral superiority one feels as you walk by motion blurred $3000 LCD's in Best Buy increase?

Here's how - I did not even bother to get up when my 8 month old boy tried to grab the objects on his Baby Einstein DVD, I knew I just clean the screen later on!

Happy New Year to all that follow the Gregorian calendar.

Tkbalt

12-31-06, 12:46 PM

I have this stand - DVD player, TV and VCR all fit just fine on it.

Which Stand? The XBR3 or XBR4?

RWetmore

12-31-06, 02:28 PM

Looking at new in box 960N at a local dealer. Is this set really worth half again the price of the 970?? I would love to have the tube and other features of the 960 - but am having a hard time choking down the price. I have ready much of this monster thread and the 970 thread (which recommends the 960). Local dealer will not move off price.

Edit - I put some money down on the 960 to have an opportunity to get some input from you on the logic of this purchase. Is the 960N a serious upgrade over the 970? I will be coming from a 43in Pioneer Elite Plasma that has a stunning picture.

I am moving the plasma into my basement and need something to replace it in my living room with a smaller 5.1 setup.

Your input would be appreciated.

Yes, it is definately a significant upgrade unless you are planning on sitting like 12+ feet from the set or have poor vision. You are incredibly lucky to have found one of these sets new. If it was me, I wouldn't hesitate. The "N" model does not have the antiglare coating either, which is a plus, IMO.

BTW - I am a very happy 960 owner.

HonestAbe52

12-31-06, 02:48 PM

I have the 3 - its a bit of a squeeze with the Tivo but it works.

GlenC

12-31-06, 03:17 PM

Yes, it is definitely a significant upgrade unless you are planning on sitting like 12+ feet from the set or have poor vision.12', what happened to 1.5 times screen width for HD..........at 30" SW, that is 45". Just a little too close for most and you will see the screen grain at that distance. 12' is 4.8 x SW, a little far to get full benefit of the TV. Further back for the 970 screen, good distances might be 6'-8' for the 960 and 8'-10'+ for the 970.

DSperber

12-31-06, 05:13 PM

good distances might be 6'-8' for the 960 and 8'-10'+ for the 970.Don't see why these two sets of identical screen sizes would have different "critical viewing distance (CVD)" values?

Yes, the smaller sets are small and require that you sit closer (but not too close) for best effect. But it's also based on what's being displayed, meaning what the resolution is of the material on the screen. Lower resolution means you should sit further back, higher resolution means you should sit closer in.

The reference materials (see below) suggest 1080i should be properly viewed at about a 30 degree viewing angle (THX calls for 36 degrees, meaning viewing is even closer), which puts you at a CVD = (3.2 x screen height). For the following diagonal screen sizes here are those distances (add roughly one foot on smaller sizes or two feet on larger sizes for a CVD of 4.0), again for 1080i viewing:

70" = 110"
65" = 102"
60" = 94"
55" = 86"
50" = 78"
40" = 63"
34" = 53"

Here (http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html#anchor_13194) is a convenient "calculator" for viewing distance vs. screen size at various resolutions.

I'm also attaching a chart taken from Sound and Vision magazine (Feb 2006) that provides the same type of data but graphing the result using colored lines. Sorry for the resolution.

Personally, I sit in a comfortable chair about 5' from my 34XBR960. Yes that's close, but the picture is superb from that distance. I'd recommend 5'-7' for 1080i viewing on a 34" set (either 960 or 970), a bit closer than your 6'-8'. Of course individual tastes and needs will influence that.

Tkbalt

12-31-06, 05:37 PM

Yes, it is definately a significant upgrade unless you are planning on sitting like 12+ feet from the set or have poor vision. You are incredibly lucky to have found one of these sets new. If it was me, I wouldn't hesitate. The "N" model does not have the antiglare coating either, which is a plus, IMO.

BTW - I am a very happy 960 owner.

Thanks - I feel pretty lucky to have found the set. The store had it on hold since May and the guy never came in to pick it up. Manager got involved and released it. Was in Circuit City today looking for stands and they had the 970's marked way down - could buy (2) for what I will pay for the 960N??????

I am still going to move ahead on the 960 based on all of the positive comments from this forum. Thanks for the feedback.

Tkbalt

12-31-06, 05:44 PM

I have the 3 - its a bit of a squeeze with the Tivo but it works.

Thanks HonestAbe52 - I was in BB today and asked about the sony stands for the xbr's. They initially said they did not have any and then did a search on the computer - had (4) XBR3 stands in stock - $29.95 each. Yep - thirty bucks. Even the clerk was shocked. My debate over the XBR3 or the XBR4 stand ended. I bought one and just got done with assembly. It is a nice stand.

GlenC

12-31-06, 05:52 PM

Don't see why these two sets of identical screen sizes would have different "critical viewing distance (CVD)" values?The 970 is not a SFP tube. It is like looking at a EDTV vs a HDTV, or sit too close to a 720p DLP and you see SDE, but not on the 1080p. You can sit the same distance from a 970, but I think the picture is better, sitting further back.

Q of BanditZ

01-01-07, 10:03 AM

yes there is a blu-ray remote. just picked one up the other day. nice design and works very well.

I'm still waiting to see what you meant about the component video being better than HDMI on this TV, in terms of anything specific. Please check your PM. Thanks.

RWetmore

01-01-07, 12:16 PM

I'm still waiting to see what you meant about the component video being better than HDMI on this TV, in terms of anything specific. Please check your PM. Thanks.

Component video is sharper than HDMI with this set. About 15-20% sharper to my eyes; however, you need high quality/well shielded cables to get the full benefit.

JohnGZ28

01-01-07, 12:26 PM

Component video is sharper than HDMI with this set. About 15-20% sharper to my eyes; however, you need high quality/well shielded cables to get the full benefit.

That's interesting. I have my cablebox on input 6 via componet and input 7 via HDMI. I'm using cables from bettercables (a former forum sponsor) and don't see a difference when switching between the two. I did have both inputs ISF'ed so that may be why I see no difference.

Q of BanditZ

01-01-07, 12:31 PM

R8ders2K

01-01-07, 01:52 PM

I've tried searching, but I just haven't found an answer... :confused:

Does the 960 have a HDMI problem?

Is there a problem with 1080i vs. 480i?

Initially, I thought that my problem was with my D* HR20, as the 1080i signal would go blank, necessitating a reboot of the HR20. So, I went back to component.

Then I hooked up my Oppo Digital DV-970HD upconverting DVD player. When set for 1080i, after awhile the video would go blank, no audio. But there's no problem at 480i.

Yesterday, I hooked up a Zenith HD-520SAT via DVI-HDMI to a Monoprice 5x1 switch @ 1080i. I got it off eBay for OTA HD, as I'm giving by mom my "old" KV-32XBR450. Initially, it was GREAT picture, but while I was cleaning up the digital channels, the screen which blank.

I've already tried 2 different cables. One was a Sony cable and the other was the cable supplied by Oppo.

Comments...?

christophersj

01-01-07, 02:31 PM

I have seen both here on this forum: People who have had a problem with HDMI port and those who have not. Being a forum for trouble shooting, there have indeed been folks with your problem here.

I have not seen the problem on mine or my neighbor's 34xbr960.

Can someone else chime in about repair of the HDMI port?

-Christopher Johnson

Filipinoyakuza

01-01-07, 05:09 PM

Has anyone bought and used the 5x1 HDMI switch off monoprice.com with this TV?

If so are there any problems with this HDMI switch on this TV? Also how is the PQ and is the switch pretty simple to use?

I would like to know because I'm thinking of buying this HDMI switch since my 1 HDMI input is being used by TV and I need more ports for my upscaling DVD player and my HD DVR cable box.

RWetmore

01-01-07, 05:19 PM

DSperber

01-01-07, 05:24 PM

That's interesting. I have my cablebox on input 6 via componet and input 7 via HDMI. I'm using cables from bettercables (a former forum sponsor) and don't see a difference when switching between the two. I did have both inputs ISF'ed so that may be why I see no difference.Agreed from me as well. But obviously it depends on whether INPUT5/6 and INPUT7 (and, optionally, firewire and ATSC) have been adjusted at least in the user menu (if not also separately in the service menu for items where settings are by input source so that it might matter), to optimize viewing on that input, in order for the no-difference to be clear.

I HAD my two paths of DVR-to-XBR960 available until it was obvious there was no reason to use the HDMI approach and I much preferred the convenience of only having to switch my multiple 720p/1080i component inputs on my Zektor HDS4 rather than also involve the "serially rotated" input switch on the XBR960.

Add to that the occasional odd behavior of things because of the presence of a first generation HDMI connection and it becomes apparent that there's just no real advantage to using HDMI with this CRT.

JohnGZ28

01-01-07, 07:34 PM

You have to have all edge enhancements equalized (preferrably turned off completely) to make an accurate comparison. Try turning Velocity Scan Mod. to off and setting sharpness at MIN in pro mode, and then compare. The difference will not blow you away, but it is clearer. Ask ISF calibrator Chad B. - he has verified this with test patterns, and made me aware of it when he did my set.

Because of this discovery, I no longer use HDMI for anything on my set - it is that significant of a difference to my eyes.

As the saying goes - your mileage may vary

By making the changes you are recommending I would take my set out of calibration and would expect to see a difference between the two.

DJF(NJ)

01-01-07, 10:02 PM

You have to have all edge enhancements equalized (preferrably turned off completely) to make an accurate comparison. Try turning Velocity Scan Mod. to off and setting sharpness at MIN in pro mode, and then compare. The difference will not blow you away, but it is clearer. Ask ISF calibrator Chad B. - he has verified this with test patterns, and made me aware of it when he did my set.

Because of this discovery, I no longer use HDMI for anything on my set - it is that significant of a difference to my eyes.

Same here...I prefer using the component cables as well! When did Chad do your set??? I live in Lakewood and he was here on September 5th of 06. Great guy!

Bitwize

01-01-07, 11:22 PM

You have to have all edge enhancements equalized (preferrably turned off completely) to make an accurate comparison. Try turning Velocity Scan Mod. to off and setting sharpness at MIN in pro mode, and then compare. The difference will not blow you away, but it is clearer. Ask ISF calibrator Chad B. - he has verified this with test patterns, and made me aware of it when he did my set.

Because of this discovery, I no longer use HDMI for anything on my set - it is that significant of a difference to my eyes.

Q of Banditz: Bingo, just as RWetmore has stated. Chad B verified this for my 960 as well. I'm still using HDMI for the PS3 though as I'm out of component inputs for the time being.

Bitwize

01-01-07, 11:25 PM

Same here...I prefer using the component cables as well! When did Chad do your set??? I live in Lakewood and he was here on September 5th of 06. Great guy!

Yes, indeed. Chad has been a friend of mine for years and has calibrated a half dozen TVs for me. One of the nicest fellas on the planet and humble at that. I highly recommend Chad for any display calibration. For those that don't know, he can be reached via www.hdtvbychadb.com (http://www.hdtvbychadb.com).

Q of BanditZ

01-02-07, 09:40 AM

^^ Chad rocks! See my thread history for my ISF experience with him! :)

Q of Banditz: Bingo, just as RWetmore has stated. Chad B verified this for my 960 as well. I'm still using HDMI for the PS3 though as I'm out of component inputs for the time being.

Sure, that's cool. I wasn't doubting your word nor Chad's, who as you all know did my ISF calibration as well.

I honestly can't remember if Chad ever mentioned to me when he was here that the HDMI was inferior to components in any way, but I had him ISF the HDMI and the components so at least by naked eye perception: You can't see any differences at all.

It wouldn't halfway surprise me if this is a case by case scenario, just like some of the other bugaboos and funny issues we've seen discussed in this uber massive thread over the last two years. *shrugs*

Since these are analog devices anyways, if someone is using the HDMI connection, doesn't that mean that there's a mandatory digital to analog video conversion that's going to happen anyways, since this a tube set? Nature of the beast?

That right there could explain any differences right off the bat, IMO.

Kind of interesting...

Mathesar

01-02-07, 10:22 AM

When comparing DVD playback on my Panasonic S97S player via Component vs. HDMI I found the HDMI input slightly darker and less colorful vs. Component on my XBR960, I compared using the same picture settings and even tried compensating the HDMI input by adjusting picture settings but I just couldnt get it to look quite as good. This doesnt mean it looks 'bad' over HDMI by any means in fact I still use it being my Xbox360 & Wii are using both Component inputs on the TV.

But admititly its a bit disappointing that HDMI looks worse.

RWetmore

01-02-07, 10:37 AM

Same here...I prefer using the component cables as well! When did Chad do your set??? I live in Lakewood and he was here on September 5th of 06. Great guy!

Chad was headed to Lakewood for his next calibration when he was done with my set, so it was probably you. If I recall correctly, he came on Labor Day to do my set.

RWetmore

01-02-07, 10:42 AM

I honestly can't remember if Chad ever mentioned to me when he was here that the HDMI was inferior to components in any way, but I had him ISF the HDMI and the components so at least by naked eye perception: You can't see any differences at all.

He probably has the sharpness or other edge enhancing adjustments higher with HDMI to achieve the same perceived level of clarity. The advantage of going to component, is you can achieve a smoother, more natural looking sharpness without a lot or any edge enhancement. Once again, you do need high grade, well shielded cables to get the full benefit (95% copper braid/ 100% foil shield to block out any interference that can cause ringing on the edges of objects).

Filipinoyakuza

01-03-07, 02:06 AM

I believe the description of the brightness adjustment technique using that black/gray bar is the same as the Pluge bar you might find on various test patterns from the DVE (Digital Video Essentials) and AVIA calibration DVDs.

And yes, you use these test patterns included on your new BRD "Talladega Nights" as if they were from DVR or AVIA as reference material to adjust the video parameters that appear in the "user menu" of the XBR960.

You will find much more very detailed information about micro-level adjustments for the XBR960 in the other thread specifically devoted to that type of material.

But as far as user-menu adjustments, I think most of the people who have been watching and tweaking the XBR960 for several years will agree that if you're feeding HDMI-quality input on INPUT7 then you need to refine your settings as shown above.

Not that my settings will necessarily go along with your tastes or source content (or internal service menu settings, for that matter) but just for your own reference as something else to try (and possibly make your own final adjustments to, until you're satisfied with how things look) here are mine (which are very similar to my settings for INPUT6 where I feed 720p/1080i component video sources):

Mode PRO
Picture 35
Brightness 32
Color 31
Hue 0
Sharpness MIN
Color Temp COOL
Clear Edge OFF
Adv Color Axis DEFAULT

Note SHARPNESS=MIN, which is very important for the highest quality display of high-quality HD content. You don't want to add anything artificial to the image, which is precisely what non-zero SHARPNESS does.

Also, turning down our PICTURE and BRIGHTNESS will provide a much more detailed and realistic image... but only if you view things in a dark room. If you watch in broad daylight my settings will cause you to scratch your head and say "huh?" as the screen will seem very dark and with almost no image. But just like in a movie theater, turn your lights off and close the shades (if daytime) when you watch HD and the properly adjusted image will appear alive and 3D on the XBR960.

Finally, there is a critical adjustment down in the service menu that improves skin color dramatically, i.e. it eliminates the factory-preset red bias which is characteristic of Sony CRT sets. Skin tone will appear truly human-like and not as if the people onscreen have a fever. Since you haven't ever "calibrated" a set before I won't bedazzle you with service menu jargon, but if you go to that other very large thread on "Sony tweaking" (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=531494) and start reading slowly, you will eventually learn how to get into the service menu and do things.

And when you're ready, you'll want to adjust:

RYR 0-15 13 (8)
RYB 0-15 15 (9)
GYR 0-15 5 (9)
GYB 0-15 4 (6)

where the first column identifies the four service menu items, the second column shows the range of possible values, and the third column shows the values you should set with the original factory-preset Sony values in parentheses.

I happen to like skin tone with the above four values (and the complementary user menu settings for color, color temp, and color axis, as I've enumerated above). Others go with 14, 14, 6,4 and are also happy. Either way, we all agree that the factory preset values are wrong and produce a noticeably reddish tint to human skin color, aka "red push". And it needs adjusting.

Hello thanks for all the help.I set my settings to that for my HDMI input 7 on my TV which looks gret for viewing blu-ray movies on my PS3 but when I play games like Resistance Fall Of Man the game just looks to dark.

Could you post what settings you have your TV set to for when playing games on PS3 on this TV?

DSperber

01-03-07, 08:32 AM

Hello thanks for all the help.I set my settings to that for my HDMI input 7 on my TV which looks gret for viewing blu-ray moviesGlad to hear it.

but when I play games like Resistance Fall Of Man the game just looks to dark. Could you post what settings you have your TV set to for when playing games on PS3 on this TV?Can't help you there. I'm not a gamester. I have never played a video game and have nothing connected to my XBR960 except for SD/HD TV/D-VHS sources and 480p DVD.

If the PRO settings are too dark for game playing from PS3 (not surprising) why don't you go to STANDARD and see how that looks. That will punch up the overall picture as would also be necessary for watching in a broad daylight room instead of a dark room. At the very least you can adjust picture and brightness and everything else there while in STANDARD and not affect the PRO settings on the same input.

This will allow you to watch high quality HD in the dark via PRO, and play games with STANDARD. Should work.

Mathesar

01-03-07, 10:13 AM

Hello thanks for all the help.I set my settings to that for my HDMI input 7 on my TV which looks gret for viewing blu-ray movies on my PS3 but when I play games like Resistance Fall Of Man the game just looks to dark.

Could you post what settings you have your TV set to for when playing games on PS3 on this TV?

I only use Pro mode when watching standard cable channels and Standard mode for DVDs / HD channels and all of my consoles (Wii / Xbox / Xbox360 / PS2) , also if possible you might try using the PS3's Component cables instead of HDMI. The XBR960's HDMI performance is known to be slightly worse than Component.

Joseph Dubin

01-03-07, 11:32 AM

drkashner

01-03-07, 12:46 PM

mr2828

01-03-07, 01:54 PM

jpl3447

01-03-07, 02:07 PM

I use the HDMI hookup from my Pioneer DV-59AVi DVD player because the benchmark tests showed that art least for the DVD player, there were fewer errors when using the HDMI over component. I don't know if it makes a difference that I am using a 960 television. Otherwise I would use component.

RWetmore

01-03-07, 03:34 PM

Lately many have stated component provides better picture quality than HDMI. It seems this is a change in consensus from a while ago when HDMI was the preferred cable.

I was wondering - has anybody who PREFERRED using HDMI in the past now switched to component? I will probably make a test myself to see if there is noticable improvement (using the INHD test patterns stored on DVR to get the best settings). With only one HDMI input I wouldn't mind freeing it for something else, but not at the cost of reducing picture quality on HD.

Thanks as always,
Joe

I did prefer HDMI and used it for a year or so because on quick comparisons the picture looked cleaner than when using component; I just assumed it was better. It wasn't until Chad pointed out that component is clearer than HDMI, that I decided to compare the two again with more scrutiny. I quickly realized that the "cleaner" look of the HDMI was due to a slight, but artificial softening of the picture, which reduced the appearance flaws, but more importantly reduced overall clarity as well. Clean sources such as HD-DVD are significantly clearer and more three dimensional with component. I'll never go back to HDMI with this set, and I have recently bought a component switcher so I can hook up three devices via component.

Joseph Dubin

01-03-07, 04:15 PM

If I had a tv like an LCD that is made of pixels, I would use HDMI. That would minimize unnecessary analog -> digital conversions. However with a CRT set like the 960, it's an analog device, so if you feed it a digital HDMI signal it has to convert it internally to component before it can work with it. I think right in the back of the set probably where the HDMI port is is a converter to make it component, and then past that point the tv treats it as if it were a component input.

So basically at some point in the chain of connections the signal will have to get switched to component. It's possible that the 960's conversion of HDMI/digital to component may be better or worse than for instance your cable tv DVR or whatever. You'll have to compare.

It's interesting to read all the responses to my question and it seems component is now the preferred choice, although even the Sony user's manual lists HDMI as the best, followed by component. Even on LCDs, would not the signal at some point need to be converted to analog?

I do know the 960's upconversion of a 480I DVD signal is better than setting my player's output to 480 and as you point out, it depends on the DVR, etc. Guess the only way to find out is to make the test. I'll, of course, let all know what I've found.

Thanks to everyone,
Joe

RWetmore

01-03-07, 04:37 PM

mr2828

01-03-07, 07:47 PM

Even on LCDs, would not the signal at some point need to be converted to analog?

No - on pixel-based displays like an LCD, there is no equivalent of the line-by-line drawing across the screen that a CRT TV does. The LCD can take the HDMI/DVI digital picture data, and map the pixels in that data directly to its own display pixels losslessly.

It's a reverse situation of a CRT, because on the LCD if you feed it an analog signal like SD or component it has to digitize that into digital form first before it can work with it, which can introduce visual quality problems. This was a downside of digital displays years back before HDMI/DVI existed.

RWetmore

01-03-07, 11:09 PM

No - on pixel-based displays like an LCD, there is no equivalent of the line-by-line drawing across the screen that a CRT TV does. The LCD can take the HDMI/DVI digital picture data, and map the pixels in that data directly to its own display pixels losslessly.

It's a reverse situation of a CRT, because on the LCD if you feed it an analog signal like SD or component it has to digitize that into digital form first before it can work with it, which can introduce visual quality problems. This was a downside of digital displays years back before HDMI/DVI existed.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe this is correct. Where are you getting this information? Sources?

jpl3447

01-04-07, 02:53 AM

I do know the 960's upconversion of a 480I DVD signal is better than setting my player's output to 480 and as you point out, it depends on the DVR, etc. Guess the only way to find out is to make the test. I'll, of course, let all know what I've found.

Thanks to everyone,
Joe

That is another thing about my Pioneer DV-59AVi, is that it can output 480i through the HDMI. So I set it at 480i and let the 960 upconvert it. I wonder if this clearness reported by others when using component was derived from comparing it to an HDMI source that was performing the scan conversions using a device other than the 960. (<<< that was a mouthful!)

When I finalize my home theater I will do more comparisons of the component and HDMI picture qualities.

tvh3ad

01-04-07, 07:57 AM

That is another thing about my Pioneer DV-59AVi, is that it can output 480i through the HDMI. So I set it at 480i and let the 960 upconvert it. I wonder if this clearness reported by others when using component was derived from comparing it to an HDMI source that was performing the scan conversions using a device other than the 960. (<<< that was a mouthful!)

Some of the posts say the differences were observed with an HD source. If the source is already 1080i, upscaling shouldn't be a factor.

For what it's worth, my old Arcam 27A player's deinterlacer is better than the TV's, hands down. On the other hand, the TV's deinterlacer+DRC trounces my Sony PVR.

mr2828

01-04-07, 08:35 PM

I'm sorry, but I don't believe this is correct. Where are you getting this information? Sources?

Be more specific, what exactly of what I said don't you think is right? Or all of it?

You don't think LCDs are individually controllable pixel-based displays? Well read up on active matrix LCDs, because they are. There is a refresh cycle used to gain this total control over each pixel in the display, but this is unrelated to the kind of video signaling used in analog video formats.

You don't think HDMI contains a digital pixel-based representation of the video image? Read up on HDMI. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI

You don't think an LCD can take that HDMI data and display it directly on its pixel matrix without having to convert it to an analog format? Here is an old Anandtech review - scroll down to page 3 where it talks about "the importance of being digital". This explains how DVI (and later HDMI) solved the quality problem of D -> A -> D conversions, and provides a direct Digital -> Digital path with no analog involved:

http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=1757

You don't think a pixel-based display device has to digitize an incoming analog signal into a pixel-based digital format before it can display it? Well besides the anandtech article, here is an old article from circa 1997 discussing how it's necessary to digitize RGB inputs for use on LCDs:

http://www.analog.com/en/content/0,2886,760%255F%255F6963,00.html

Another mention of digital TVs containing analog -> digital chips for analog inputs:

http://www.electronicproducts.com/Showpage.asp?Filename=analog.oct2006.html

Rmutz

01-04-07, 08:45 PM

Joseph Dubin

01-05-07, 10:16 AM

[QUOTE=mr2828]You don't think an LCD can take that HDMI data and display it directly on its pixel matrix without having to convert it to an analog format? Here is an old Anandtech review - scroll down to page 3 where it talks about "the importance of being digital". This explains how DVI (and later HDMI) solved the quality problem of D -> A -> D conversions, and provides a direct Digital -> Digital path with no analog involved[QUOTE]

While not a technician, I find your information quite interesting. I know digital audio has to be converted back to analog in order for us to hear it. Doesn't the same D/A conversion hold true for video in order for us to see it? If so, wouldn't the HDMI signal need to be converted back to analog, no matter if the monitor was LCD or CRT?

Joseph Dubin

01-05-07, 10:22 AM

I'm pretty sure component looking clearer on the Sony CRTs doesn't have anything to do with component and the TV both being analog devices. It is the way the HDMI is implemented that is causing the reduction in clarity, not the digital HDMI technology itself.

Yes, the output on the HD box or HD-DVR is critical. Mine is set to "HDMI" so no upconverted signal is ouptut allowing the 960 to do all signal processing. When I experimented with the box's upconversion options picture quality then deteriated; do not know if this would have been the same using component.

G-Bull

01-05-07, 10:58 AM

While not a technician, I find your information quite interesting. I know digital audio has to be converted back to analog in order for us to hear it. Doesn't the same D/A conversion hold true for video in order for us to see it? If so, wouldn't the HDMI signal need to be converted back to analog, no matter if the monitor was LCD or CRT?
You're correct that an audio receiver does output an analog signal to the speakers, because SOUND is analog. Speakers are simple devices. So a good receiver takes a digital signal, does whatever it does, then as a last step converts the signal to analog so the speakers can make sound. Otherwise, if the receiver outputted a digital signal to the speakers, the speakers themselves would have to have chips and such to convert that signal to analog so they could make sound. But that would just be redundant because that's what you have a receiver for - to give the speakers a nice, clean analog signal.

Regarding an LCD TV, it processes all the video information digitally, and it turns the LCD pixels on and off digitally. Everything is digital, there is no conversion to analog in how the LCD TV displays the video information.

There is, however, one final digital to analog conversion that has to take place in order for us to actually see what the TV is displaying. The light waves generated by the light bulb in the TV - when they pass through the LCD, the TV is "converting" the digital information it's displaying on the LCD into analog light waves. But the TV itself doesn't change any of the data to analog in order to manipulate the image. The final display on the LCD screen is digital. The only thing that's analog is the light waves passing through the digital display and traveling to your eyes.