ATTENTION ALL HDTV ENTHUSISTS WHO WANT TO RECORD, PLAYBACK AND ARCHIVE PROGRAMMING: INTRODUCING THE NEXTCOM R5000-HD.

Available now. To order use our on-line form (http://www.nextcomwireless.com/R5000/sales.htm). Buy now (before Jan. 1, 2008) and take advantage of our year-end specials.

NOW AVAILABLE FOR MOTOROLA DIGITAL CABLE and STARCHOICE!
Dish Network MPEG-4 Receiver and DVR added (Models ViP211 and 622)
Supports SageTV and Windows Media Center


Welcome to a new era in HDTV recording. Introducing the Nextcom R5000-HD, the first glitch free, all digital HDTV recording system for Dish Network, DirecTV, Bell ExpressVu, StarChoice, 4DTV(C-Band), Motorola Digital Cable and ATSC Digital Television (DTV). The R5000-HD delivers lossless digital quality capture with industry standard transport streams compatible with a wide range of playback options.


Product Description

The R5000-HD is a Window XP / 2000 based HDTV recording system installed in your set top box (STB) and connected to your PC via USB 2.0. Recorded programs are archived directly to the PC hard drive or D-VHS Tape. The R5000-HD is compatible with Dish Network, DirecTV, Bell ExpressVu, C-Band, StarChoice, Motorola Digital Cable and DTV. Simple to use PVR allows scheduling of recordings using TitanTV and Zap2it on-line interactive guides. The recorder can also be controlled with the STB's VCR timers. Playback is accomplished with either PC hardware MyHD, Roku, etc. or software VLC, Elcard, Divco, etc. (Not included). Professional installation in your existing STB is included with purchase.

The R5000-HD proudly integrates Decisionmark's TitanTV EPG (Electronic Program Guide) directly into the program. Decisionmark is the leading online EPG technology provider, making it easy to find and schedule your favorite shows for recording with a single click. TitanTV users can also schedule recordings remotely wherever Interent access is available.


Set Top Box Compatibility

Dish Network
Dish 6000
Dish 411/ViP 211 (411 now discontinued - use 211)
ViP 622, 722 (DVR)
(Records all HD channels from Dish Network, DTV, including and SD. MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 (H.264) fully supported. Extraction is not possible from the 622/722 DVRs)



DirecTV
RCA DTC-100
ProScan PSH-D105
Hughes HIRD-E86
Toshiba DST-3000
Mitsubishi SR-HD5
Philips DSHD800
(Records all HD and SD channels from DirecTV and DTV. Newer MPEG-4 models, e.g. H20, are NOT supported).



Bell ExpressVu
Bell 6000
[*}Bell 9242
(Records all HD channels from ExpressVu including all PPV. Also records SDTV MPEG2 ExpressVU channels. Extrqaction is not possible from the 9242 DVR).


C-Band (4DTV)
Modification of the HDD-200 outboard decoder (used w/905, 920, 922 & certain StarChoice receivers).
Direct modification of the 4DTV receiver (905, 920, 922, etc).
(Records all HD & SD digital channels).


StarChoice
DSR series. Any 5C-enabled boxes (Firewire port for recording) not accepted.
(Records all HD and SD channels).


Motorola Digital Cable
DTC2000 series and certain ealry HD boxes that are not 5C-enabled (units with Firewire port for recording are not accepted). Records all HD & SD digital channels.




Technical Details

Writes standard, ISO 13818-1 MPEG-2 transport streams. Tested to be fully compatible with MPEG2 decoders such as MyHD, Roku, JVC 30000, JVC 40000, etc. Configurable output bit rate allows transport streams to be NULL stripped, standard or high. No difference in compatibility (read playability) of transport streams recorded on any supported STB. Integrated IR sender/receiver allows PC to control STB and respond to STB VCR record commands (where available).


Pricing and Availability
For latest pricing and ordering details please see website: http://www.r5000-hd.com.
Factory warranty 12 months parts & labor.



PC Requirements
Windows XP/2000
One USB 2.0 port or one PCI slot and a PCI USB 2.0 adapter
512MB RAM
Pentium III 1.0 GHz (Dish Network), Pentium 4 1.8 GHz (DirecTV)
9GB / hr Free disk space
HDTV playback software or hardware
Optional IEEE1394 Firewire card for recording direct to tape.



Additional Information
Does not include required STB or PC.
Built-in Media Player with satellite preview capability.
Now includes multi-STB (tuner) support for simultaneous capture from up to 4 STBs
Recording directly to D-VHS Tape
Supports SageTV and Windows Media Center


The user manual for the R5000-HD is currently availbale online at http://www.nextcomwireless.com/R5000/dvr_manual/dvr_manual.htm


For more information and to order, go to: www.r5000-hd.com (http://www.r5000-hd.com)

------------------------------------------------------------
R5000-HD OFFICIAL PRODUCT RELEASE UPDATE
October, 18, 2004: The R5000-HD is officially available and on sale through our website: www.r5000-hd.com (http://www.r5000-hd.com)

So $999 includes the modification, installation and warranty? Ii sounds pretty good, especially since now we don't have to worry about the AVX-1 in the chain and have glitch free recordings. I guess this gives me time to save up for August.

Optional IEEE1394 Firewire card and DVHStool for D-VHS archiving


Will this be compatable with future Blu-ray and HD-DVD recorders? If so, I'm very interested. If not, well... I don't fancy the idea of DVHS enough to spend another grand on HT equipment.

Will modified DTC-100's work?

Ed Betty

Why does DirecTv have a higher CPU requirement?

I assume that DirecTV requires more processing power to convert it's mpeg 1.5 streams to mpeg2.

PC Requirements:
Pentium III 1.0 GHz (Dish Network), Pentium 4 1.8 GHz (DirecTV)What about Athlon CPU's?

OK...I'll bite - does this setup record 5.1?

2 mos. off? Must be some competition out there.

I can't wait! I have a Mits SR-HD5, but it crashes a lot. I have the Dish 6000, but also want a DirecTV receiver too modified with this solution. I have both Dish and DirecTV at my house. Of those DTV receivers listed, which is the best, most reliable one to get? I think I want to avoid the Mits, I had some problems with mine, and it ran VERY hot. I'm leaning towards the DTC100, since they can be had pretty cheap, and seem to be reliable. I would only use it for HD recording anyway, so any extra bells and whistles would be wasted for this specific installation.

Kevin, I have a Hughes HIRD E86 and a DTC100, my DTC100 has the 169 mod in it, I think the DTC100 is better receiver, but I guess I will probably get the E86 modded with this, unless they can mod DTC100 even though it has 169time.

Largo, I was thinking along the same lines with my Dish 6000. It has the 169time mod, so I was thinking of leaving that receiver alone, and getting the mod done to a different receiver. I'll probably pickup a used DTC100 off of Ebay for this application.

Originally posted by R5000-HD
AVS Forum discount available for members registered before 2/11/04.

C'mon, what's this all about? How was this date decided upon? I registered 6 days later. :(

Originally posted by ChrisW6ATV
Maybe this is an "HD-SDI over USB 2.0" device, or something analagous to that. With such a signal, or even a "unique HD data signal over USB 2.0"
So, this is indeed what it is! :)


Darn, I just spent $1000 on an HD Tivo, now I need to find 'another' $1000 for an HD recording toy. Decisions, decisions...

I suspect that it connects to the set-top boxes in exactly the same way the 169time HDVR device does, so most likely the R5000 folks will not 'accept' already-modified receivers for their product. Technically, it could be possible, but if these devices connect to HD receivers the way an SDI mod does, it would be nearly impossible to connect a second device in the same way. Realistically, at the least the 169time device would have to be removed and then some type of "Y/split" would have to be connected to each signal needed for both devices. Then, after both devices were (re)attached, there might be interaction/impedance issues that would degrade the signal, and this R5000 has 'stability' as one of its main selling points, therefore my doubt of 'dual-mod' plans.

Amelie-this device creates 'standard MPEG-2 transport streams', so 'any' device that can 'record and play' such files (presumably any storage device that can handle 20 Mb per second continuously, or faster) should work fine. If Blu-ray and/or HD-DVD are available as 'standard computer add-ons' the way DVD recorders are now, they will certainly work.

Steve-unless this uses one of the Pentium 4-specific technologies (SSE2?), probably an Athlon of similar speed (XP 1800 or higher) sholud work, I would think. I bet you 'hit the nail on the head' regarding Dish vs. DirecTV power needed.

HDTVFanAtic-there is no reason this would not record 5.1 sound, the same as whether it would record 'all colors'-the sound format is a basic part of 'standard MPEG-2 transport streams'.

So is this a module similar to 169 that gets put into the STB? I'm very confused as to how this is describing the setup. When will pictures of the setup be available? If I buy this can I use the same setup on both Dish and DirecTV or will there be specific setups for each?

>>>Playback is accomplished with either PC hardware MyHD, Roku, etc. or software VLC, Elcard, Divco, etc. (Not included).<<<

Does this solution support timeshifting (playing back streams as they are recording)?

Bob

Chap

Ill answer what I can based on my testing of the 5k so far.

The system includes a modification to your stb that provides a USB hook up between your stb and PC. As far as I know the PC/software will support any of the mentioned providers so you could record from both Dish and Direct using a USB switcher to select your preference. I have no way of trying this but I would think a usb hub would also work and only have one of the stbs active at a time when recording. Good question.

Can't wait

Great news. Any pictures???

Originally posted by R5000-HD
AVS Forum discount available for members registered before 2/11/04.


Originally posted by amelie
C'mon, what's this all about? How was this date decided upon? I registered 6 days later. :(

And I registered 6 days earlier! ;) Sorry to rub it in.

I may need to change my description to (ATSC&USB2)->PC...

Alan - can you tell us a thing or two about the PC software to record?

It has some zap2it integration for program guide?

Does it have any way to change channels on the STB? (Doubtful)

Can an IR blaster on the STB tell the PC to start recording?

If neither of the above is true, then I guess you have to program channel
changes on the STB to match recording timers on the PC.

It would be great if you could ask Nextcom to post a screen capture of
the recording software user interface.

Originally posted by HDHTPC
Alan - can you tell us a thing or two about the PC software to record?

It has some zap2it integration for program guide?

Does it have any way to change channels on the STB? (Doubtful)

Can an IR blaster on the STB tell the PC to start recording?


The recorder can also be controlled with the STB VCR IR control.

$1,000 is a lot of money. Especially for what is essentially another private modification job.

I'm curious, but cautious.

If it performs as advertised, I consider it money well spent.

It would be money well spent. All that has to happen is to be able to afford it...

Darius

You know, I wouldn't give a **** about 5c except 2 things. I don't mind getting a service and being allowed one copy, but I need.

Computer editing.

Flexibility of archival media chosen.

And also, the JVC just scares me. Alright? Scares me. And the mits doesn't have a mpeg decoder. This way, I don't have to wait until a nice blueray system is available...

Darius

Originally posted by HDHTPC
Alan - can you tell us a thing or two about the PC software to record?

It has some zap2it integration for program guide?

Does it have any way to change channels on the STB? (Doubtful)

Can an IR blaster on the STB tell the PC to start recording?

If neither of the above is true, then I guess you have to program channel
changes on the STB to match recording timers on the PC.

It would be great if you could ask Nextcom to post a screen capture of
the recording software user interface.

heres hoping that either Sage or Snapstream talk to these guys.

Heres a capture of the software.

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/509/2R5000-HD.GIF

Originally posted by cerulean
>>>Playback is accomplished with either PC hardware MyHD, Roku, etc. or software VLC, Elcard, Divco, etc. (Not included).<<<

Does this solution support timeshifting (playing back streams as they are recording)?

Bob

Bob,

For playback on MyHD it would depend on how the file(s) are recorded.

If it can record sequence files and does not keep all files in the sequence locked MyHD can be used to time-shift.

Interesting, how exactly does this work? Do they tap the datapath in the box directly?

Thanks,
Mike

Good question, does it allow for a split size during recording?

Originally posted by Alan Gouger
Heres a capture of the software.

What is the CPU utilization for capturing?

Largo-

FYI:

The DTC-100 with 169Time HDVR installed required a bit of PCB modification to make it work. Several SMR's were removed from the board in the process. A few other DTC-100 modifications were done as well. You can't simply, now, just remove the HDVR from a DTC-100. You would need to replace these surface mount components. 169Time did sell, at one time, an adapter that could be plugged into the DTC-100 that would permit the removal of the HDVR and this would make the modified main board work in the absence of the HDVR.

With the 6000, one could easily desolder the multi connection harness from 169Time and the 6000 would be back like new, or, simply unplug the HDVR and the 6000 would work fine. The R5000 may also work side by side with the HDVR present in the 6000.

I would say that the new company may have problems working with a DTC-100 with 169Time board simply removed, unless they were prepared to rebuild the changes made to the DTC-100 main board.
The new product may also work side by side to the HDVR and not be bothered by it's presence. Only they could answer that.

Originally posted by Cliff Watson
If it can record sequence files and does not keep all files in the sequence locked MyHD can be used to time-shift.

Cliff,

You've done a better job expressing what I want to know. :)

I know that my Hipix supports timeshifting if the recording app doesn't lock the sequential files. So the real questions are:

Does the software allow setting file size and picking file name format?

Does the software leave the files "unlocked" so that the play back device can access the earlier segments while the current segment is being recorded?

Bob

Thanks for the pics Alan.

Bob,

I really don't know anything about this product. I used your question to drop a big 'hint' to the developer.

It would take some programming, but it should be easy to support different file formats for such cards as HiPix, MyHD, and AccessDTV hardware decoders. If is also easy to unlock a file once a new file starts recording.

Maybe I should call Alan and get involved.
(EDIT: Too late..R5000-HD just PMed me as I sent this message :D)

Guys

I sent my 169time DTC100 and it was returned working perfect with their mod:)

Originally posted by Alan Gouger
Guys

I sent my 169time DTC100 and it was returned working perfect with their mod:)

Thats a huge relief! Was worried that my 169time dtc100 wouldnt work. Guess the same will hold true for a 6000.

The recording software looks good, it would be cool if the software had the ability to tune the receiver via the usb connection, but I guess that would be a bit difficult to implement.

Originally posted by Kirby Baker
Thats a huge relief! Was worried that my 169time dtc100 wouldnt work. Guess the same will hold true for a 6000.

The recording software looks good, it would be cool if the software had the ability to tune the receiver via the usb connection, but I guess that would be a bit difficult to implement.


Technical Details

Writes standard, ISO 13818-1 MPEG-2 transport streams....

...Integrated IR sender/receiver allows PC to control STB and respond to STB VCR record commands.


Yes it can tune the STB. The Zap2it interface should allow the user to select a program to record via the web interface. At the proper time, the R5000-HD would turn on the STB, tune to the correct channel, and record the program.

Originally posted by Don Landis
The DTC-100 with 169Time HDVR installed required a bit of PCB modification to make it work. Several SMR's were removed from the board in the process. A few other DTC-100 modifications were done as well. You can't simply, now, just remove the HDVR from a DTC-100. You would need to replace these surface mount components...


Installation included in the $999 MSRP is for an unmodified STB. Additional work to install the R5000-HD in a modified box would be extra $, and would probably change the terms of the warranty. At this time is it not possible to have both devices in the same STB. Installation of the R5000-HD in an unmodified STB requires NO components to be removed.

I dont know about the rest of you but I am allready drooling over this machine i miss my dish 5000 set up i guess the discount goes towards us old users that lost our service arround that time :).

You mean our hocky pucks are worth money on a trade up? :D

Seriously, is the modification, listing at $999, per modified STB, or potentially less for a second modified unit?

Larry

Originally posted by amelie
C'mon, what's this all about? How was this date decided upon? http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=347919

Originally posted by R5000-HD



Yes it can tune the STB. The Zap2it interface should allow the user to select a program to record via the web interface. At the proper time, the R5000-HD would turn on the STB, tune to the correct channel, and record the program.

I took this to mean that the STB would be controlled via IR commands sent out via some sort of IR blaster hooked to a PC serial port. Is that not the case? My setup wont deal with a IR blaster because the opposite wall is 30ft. away.

Well that sucks. Don't think I'll be buying this anyway as I don't like that you can't playback the recordings via the STB. I don't like the idea of watching any program on my PC. I'm sure a better solution will be forthcoming.

Originally posted by Ken H
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=347919 thats a great idea

Originally posted by amelie
Well that sucks. Don't think I'll be buying this anyway as I don't like that you can't playback the recordings via the STB. I don't like the idea of watching any program on my PC. I'm sure a better solution will be forthcoming.You could always use a 169time modded DTC-100 to play back transport streams sent from the PC with DVHSTool, as long as you are tuned to an OTA 8vsb signal. Some other STB's might work, too, but driver support for PC's is marginal right now. However, playback with existing PC hardware decoder cards give you much more control and convenience, IMO.

Originally posted by stjr
You could always use a 169time modded DTC-100 to play back transport streams sent from the PC with DVHSTool, as long as you are tuned to an OTA 8vsb signal. Some other STB's might work, too, but driver support for PC's is marginal right now. However, playback with existing PC hardware decoder cards give you much more control and convenience, IMO.

I appreciate your input but 169Time, no thanks. $1000-1500 for a firewire equiped STB that has problems plus another grand for this device. I'll wait tell there's something better and less expensive. I've got better things to do with that kind of money. I may look into the DVHSTool if and when it's compatable with future HD disc recorders. I'll stick with having no archive option while the only choice is tape based.

Not to beat this point to death, but I forgot to mention the Roku device can be used for playback, which has some convenient features and costs only $300.

Unless I missed something the files play via the MYHD card which will output to most any projector or monitor in Component, RGBHV, RGB, or DVI. Whats not to like?

Larry

Originally posted by videohot
Unless I missed something the files play via the MYHD card which will output to most any projector or monitor in Component, RGBHV, RGB, or DVI. Whats not to like?

Larry

Beats me! The sample file that R5000-HD sent me plays perfectly on MyHD.

I sure hope these guys are better than Richard at converting D* streams.

--Rick

"
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Don Landis
The DTC-100 with 169Time HDVR installed required a bit of PCB modification to make it work. Several SMR's were removed from the board in the process. A few other DTC-100 modifications were done as well. You can't simply, now, just remove the HDVR from a DTC-100. You would need to replace these surface mount components...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

answer: per- R5000-HD:

Installation included in the $999 MSRP is for an unmodified STB. Additional work to install the R5000-HD in a modified box would be extra $, and would probably change the terms of the warranty. At this time is it not possible to have both devices in the same STB. Installation of the R5000-HD in an unmodified STB requires NO components to be removed.

_____________________

Guys

I sent my 169time DTC100 and it was returned working perfect with their mod


__________________
Alan Gouger

"


Fascinating. So Alan, you left out that your DTC-100 with 169Time was reversed back to original state, meaning that the 169Time had been removed by R5000-HD. Right?

People need to realize that when they plan to send in a modified DTC-100, that it may be a better idea to send in a virgin DTC-100 so their 169Time investment is not trashed in the process.

While I agree that 169Time solution is not perfect and seems to be a real problem for some people who intended to use it with a PC, I know it works quite well for those wishing to collect archive tapes for personal use with VCR playback.

A suggestion for anyone wishing to have perfection- Put your money into suspended animation and wake up in the next century. Meanwhile I'll live in the present with 95%. Today, the only perfect solution is one where the beholder is willing to ignore certain imperfections.

One big advantage I can see with this system is the ability to create the HDTV juke box on a PC server. I would love to have something like this but in reality- I admit that I don't have the time to watch my existing tape collection now and I have far too much live, new HDTV with D*, E* and V* channels to select and DVR time shift. Consequently I can't make room for a 3rd archive system.

i've recently seen some 'bargain' Hughes E86's and Tosh DST-3000's at BB's 'open box' table in the $200 range.

Makes absolutely no sense to me to trash an over $1000 169time investment by modifying your already-modified stb to a new as-yet-sight-unseen modification. Seems to me unnecessarily costly, foolhardy, and even risky. At least consider the merit in having a backup.

This is the time to go find that second stb on somebody's bargain table (locally or on the internet), then come August if you're in a position to blow another grand, you're ready.

Originally posted by amelie
I'll wait tell there's something better and less expensive.
Don't hold your breath. ;)

--Jerome

The big scary thought in all of this is : how long will the DTC100 and Dish6000 last?

Will they go the way of the Dodo-bird and Dish 5000 modulator?

DTC100 is 4PSK only, and D* may someday do a receiver swap to get
everyone going on 8PSK.

E* phased out the Dish5000+Modulator... Someday they may do the same
for the 6000.

Originally posted by HDHTPC
The big scary thought in all of this is : how long will the DTC100 and Dish6000 last?

So would one of these other supported receivers be a better choice to have modified?



ProScan PSH-D105

Hughes HIRD-E86

Toshiba DST-3000

Mitsubishi SR-HD5

Philips DSHD800

The Proscan is the same as the DTC100. The Hughes E86 was prone to overheating. I think the Mits and Philips were Hughes clones. Which evil do you prefer? :) When I say overheating, I mean really overheated! My parents had one, and it literally melted the smart card into the socket.

I am trying to decide if I want to use my Proscan/169time mod, or try and find a good used receiver, but never bought a used D* receiver, so dont know the risks.

I had the Mits HD5, and that sucker ran HOT too.

I don't believe that any current D* STB's are 8psk (or D*'s proposed variant of 8psk) compatible. The Dish 6000 is obviously 8psk compatible, so it should be able to keep going for some time.

I bought a used DTC-100 on eBay in January from a private seller who had subbed the unit. The transaction worked out fine, and the firmware was current. However, be careful about eBay auctions of units that were not subbed. It's likely that some of these units will have to be sent back to RCA to get the latest firmware (aka, a "paddle upgrade").

Originally posted by stjr
However, be careful about eBay auctions of units that were not subbed. It's likely that some of these units will have to be sent back to RCA to get the latest firmware (aka, a "paddle upgrade").

This would be less important if the unit is going to be used as a recording source only, and not viewed. My Proscan model has old firmware, 40b. Cant do some of the changes to the screen position/timings because of it, but since I never use the box for viewing, its not a problem.

Getting the paddle upgrade at a local RCA shop seems like an impossible feat. I tried. Never showed.

Steve, on used ebay receivers, does it matter at all what the box was used for? or if it has a card with balance? I think D* requires a new card now, on all boxes, so effectively any card with balance would never get used(and I presume the balance follows the card, not a receiver). What about '1 year commitments'? Are those for the box, or the account?

Kirby,

My DTC-100 came without a card, but D* will require a new card anyway. It's partly an anti-piracy measure to prevent use of older cards that have been compromised. The new card will cost $20 and must be activated within 30 days.

If you have been a subscriber for over 2 years, you can insist at the time of activation that you not be locked in to a one-year commitment (for your entire account). That's what I did. You are also in a better position to avoid the commitment when you activate used equipment that was not purchased as part of a subsidized promotional deal.

What the heck is a "paddle upgrade"?

I could see D* putting all the DTC100's or equivalents on end-of-life and moving to a new generation of HD boxes with an 8PSK variant.

A paddle upgrade is how you upgrade the firmware on the DTC100. To my knowledge it is a card like unit that you slide into the smart card slot, and it re-flashes the unit. Supposedly you can request one be sent to your 'local' RCA dealer, and take your unit it for the upgrade, but I am not sure they still do it.

D* stopped spooling the most current firmware for the DTC100 a long time ago, so you cant get it from the satellite.

Originally posted by Kirby Baker

Getting the paddle upgrade at a local RCA shop seems like an impossible feat. I tried. Never showed.



I had it done without problems at a local authorized repair shop. Thomson FedEx'ed the paddle upgrade and it took about fifteen minutes to upgrade and test.

For DTC-100s with older firmware, you have to have it done to receive all the HD channels. The older firmware would not update the channel guide for anything on Sat-C.

Well I might have to try again then to get it. But I think my DTC100 on version 40b did update the guide info ok. Havent used it since I switched to the Dish 6000 setup.

The DirecTV receivers listed are really two units:
The RCA & ProScan are identical except for color.
The Hughes, Toshiba, Mitsu, Philips are all identical except for appearance and remote.

The RCA/ProScan has a number of different versions of Upgrades. The current Upgrade version is A05.10. For use with the R5000-HD, any Upgrade version 4. or better should not matter.

Many H/T/M/P owners use outboard ventilation and/or cooling for their units, which seems to eliminate overheating issues.

Originally posted by mkerdman

I could see D* putting all the DTC100's or equivalents on end-of-life and moving to a new generation of HD boxes with an 8PSK variant. At some point this may happen, the question is when? As of now, there has been no information, rumors or otherwise, regarding this.

Originally posted by Ken H
Many H/T/M/P owners use outboard ventilation and/or cooling for their units, which seems to eliminate overheating issues.

Which makes me leary of buying a used one, no way to know if it overheated or not.

What was the hughes HIRD-E8? (not 86)

Originally posted by Kirby Baker
Which makes me leary of buying a used one, no way to know if it overheated or not.

What was the hughes HIRD-E8? (not 86) Not all units overheated, some ran cooler than others. You can usually tell the bad ones by the smell...

Not sure what the E8 is, but the one listed is the only HD unit Hughes ever offered with out DVI.

Originally posted by Ken H
At some point this may happen, the question is when? As of now, there has been no information, rumors or otherwise, regarding this.

Ken

Actually, there was a rumor that there would be a different, somehow better, HD-Tivo released later that would make the current one less desirable in some way.

Also, with Hughes/DirecTV taking over all reference designs and making Thompson and others simply OEM's, the possibility of outmoding certain STB's, especially HDTV, is a real possibility.

However, if with its recent and future sat launches, D* gets all the bandwidth it needs for SD LIL and HD Networks (unlikely), they may not need to change their modulation scheme as Dish did moving from 4PSK to 8PSK.

Lastly, News Corp. wants a worldwide standard of interactive services, and that may change things as well for D* STB's, both SD & HD.

Originally posted by Ken H
Many H/T/M/P owners use outboard ventilation and/or cooling for their units, which seems to eliminate overheating issues.

Anyone who needs/wants any of their STB's or other electronics cooled should check out The Cool-It2 and the other Active Thermal Management models:

http://www.activethermal.com/Cool-It_II.htm

EDIT: I needed to get a FREE 91 degree thermostatic trigger from the manufacturer to replace the 99 degree standard one to get more cooling to my LG 3410 "Fan-less" (read quiet but hot) DVR.

"Actually, there was a rumor that there would be a different, somehow better, HD-Tivo released later that would make the current one less desirable in some way. "

I think that's not so good a rumor... At least not soon.

Originally posted by rogo
"Actually, there was a rumor that there would be a different, somehow better, HD-Tivo released later that would make the current one less desirable in some way. "

I think that's not so good a rumor... At least not soon.

rogo


Good!

I guess that's why they call it a rumor, but, time will tell.

Seperately, I read in the financial press of the remote possibility that D*, with News Corp.'s European Sky TV Development Team and NDS backing, may de-emphasize Tivo in favor of a license free in-house proprietary DVR design for which all the Subscriber Monthly DVR Fee's would be theirs to keep.

Wow, this is great news. The $1,000 price is not good news, but glitch free D-VHS recordings are hard to come by with 169time and nothing else is on the horizon so I am very likely going to get in on the avsforum special price. I already have everything else I need except DVHStools which I have never even bothered to read about but I have lots of time to get up to speed with that. Playback with a PC and MYHD isn't of interest to me but archiving to D-VHS glitch free sure is.

Chris

Originally posted by mkerdman

Actually, there was a rumor that there would be a different, somehow better, HD-Tivo released later that would make the current one less desirable in some way. Not related to making the older HD receivers obsolete.

Did I miss something or has no one yet explained how the mod works? I would be very reticent to spend this kind of money on a mod without understanding exactly what's happening.

Thanks,
Mike

Originally posted by MikeSM
Did I miss something or has no one yet explained how the mod works? I would be very reticent to spend this kind of money on a mod without understanding exactly what's happening.

Thanks,
Mike

I don't think the specifics regarding how it is done will be given away. Someone with technical knowhow might be able to do it. A simple explanation is a satellite receiver will be modified with a USB 2.0 output and MPEG2 stream sent to a PC and recorded to a hard drive. I believe this will require about 9GB/hour on average. The STB will be controlled by the PC via the USB connection and playback achieved through MYHD or other cards so it is a complete solution, We provide the STB and of course minimum required PC. The package includes modification of the receiver, software, and a 1 year warranty. If you aren't willing to pay this kind of money, unfortunately you aren't likely to be able to record satellite HDTV to D-VHS until someone can do it cheaper. I have been waiting years for something that sounds this good.

DVHStools can be used to transfer the data to D-VHS and I am set. Based on Alan's testimony that it results in glitch free recordings, I am really interested.

Chris

Originally posted by Chris Gerhard
Wow, this is great news. The $1,000 price is not good news, but glitch free D-VHS recordings are hard to come by with 169time and nothing else is on the horizon so I am very likely going to get in on the avsforum special price. I already have everything else I need except DVHStools which I have never even bothered to read about but I have lots of time to get up to speed with that. Playback with a PC and MYHD isn't of interest to me but archiving to D-VHS glitch free sure is.

Chris

Interesting, this is the same street price most of us paid for the later 169time mods.

This product is basically the same thing but is USB based rather than 1394. It still has an AVX1 in a sense, it's just that these new folks have added hard disk recording to the "AVX1" computer. They are doing exactly the same thing, tapping the MPEG stream, formatting it to a standard interface and using an outboard PC to re-format the MPEG stream. Then unlike the AVX1, they dump it to a file on the hard disk.

I don't know about everyone else but my 6000 to JVC30K does work flawlessly. I have now watched about 20 hours of recorded material with perhaps one or two minor glitches in all which could be the JVC or a tape dropout. Hell my 5000 to Panny did no better than that.

I am however still interested in this product and will probably buy one.

I do have one question: Can the computer simply output firewire on the fly? In other words, bring in the stream USB and output 1394 to DVHS without recording to the hard disk? I guess we would need DVHS tool running in another thread in realtime.

I wonder if this system can operate 2 STB's at once, on 1 computer? Or is that too much workload on the system, or not feasible/possible with the software?

For Dish people (w/o unlimited cash) this is not the great news we were waiting for. I'm very glad for another option, but $1,000 + have to pay $550 - $600 for a Dish 6000 receiver. Means this comes to about $1,600 shipped.

Means this comes to about $1,600 shipped.

I paid $1700 for my 169time bel system and it doesn't work:(

You know, guys, since the big problem with AVX-1 seems to be certain errors in how files are written, and this product seems to be a usb version of avx-1 that goes directly to computer...I am wondering if it isn't a strong likelyhood that they can *fix* the avx-1 decoder issues without having to purchase a whole new thing...

Darius

Originally posted by shah8
You know, guys, since the big problem with AVX-1 seems to be certain errors in how files are written, and this product seems to be a usb version of avx-1 that goes directly to computer...I am wondering if it isn't a strong likelyhood that they can *fix* the avx-1 decoder issues without having to purchase a whole new thing...

Darius

It may be fixable since I can't imagine using USB 2.0 provides any advantages in this regard to firewire. I don't know much about either company really, are both single person enterprises? If so, then all that matters is expertise and commitment by the individuals involved. I don't own 169time products and I am not technical enough to figure any of this out on my own. At least some people are seizing an opportunity to provide a needed product for us home video nut cases.

Chris

Originally posted by Alan Gouger
I paid $1700 for my 169time bel system and it doesn't work:(

What exactly doesn't work? My 169 6000/30K combo works just as well as my 5000/DSTU50 did. The only thing I don't like are my timer options. I can't jump very far ahead with the 6000 timer and the Rat Shack remote wastes head life as it has preselected record legnths. But as far as performance, it is flawless. No video hits, no audio problems.

While my 169time/6000 does record just fine, playback is the problem. My Roku will play the files cleanly. MyHD120 will mostly play it back ok. Fusion HDTV has some dropouts. Hipix can't play it back at all.

I previously had a 169time/DTC100, and none of my PC cards could playback the streams.

Fire and Cable = no need to spend $1,000 or anything even close to it.

I don't think the specifics regarding how it is done will be given away. Someone with technical knowhow might be able to do it. A simple explanation is a satellite receiver will be modified with a USB 2.0 output and MPEG2 stream sent to a PC and recorded to a hard drive. I believe this will require about 9GB/hour on average. The STB will be controlled by the PC via the USB connection and playback achieved through MYHD or other cards so it is a complete solution, We provide the STB and of course minimum required PC. The package includes modification of the receiver, software, and a 1 year warranty. If you aren't willing to pay this kind of money, unfortunately you aren't likely to be able to record satellite HDTV to D-VHS until someone can do it cheaper. I have been waiting years for something that sounds this good.

I have spent a lot of money on A/V and computer gear, and when you look at the total cost of a house wide entertainment system, this isnt that bad a price for the ability to get the RAW mpeg content streams in an unencumbered format.

The reason I ask is that I want this integrated with at least Sage and preferably MythTv. And I want to get the SD streams as well as HD streams. Recording it to DVHS isn't interesting to me, I can get that from Cable today - a terabyte media server is my target.

If the device acts like a firewire tuner, where an IR blaster or serial port command controls the box and the raw MPEG-2 stream comes out the USB port, it doesn't sound that hard to integrate it with these other packages. If there is a lot of funky control stuff going on, then it'll be pretty complicated to make the integration work without the support of the vendor.

If I understood how the mod worked I might be able to better guage the feasability of these other options, as well as answer some more questions about whether or not this mod could be invalidated by D* or others later on.

I have no problems with modding hardware - heck I'd hacked a few xbox's myself to enable XBMC to work.

Thanks,
Mike

Originally posted by Matt_Stevens
Fire and Cable = no need to spend $1,000 or anything even close to it.

Depends on how many HD stations you want. I'm still bummed it won't work with Voom, but I did have the "why" eplained. Damn motorolla boxes ;)

Originally posted by amelie
I'll wait tell there's something better and less expensive.
Originally posted by jsaliga
Don't hold your breath.
I'm going to have to answer the way Matt has, as quoted below.
Originally posted by Matt_Stevens
Fire and Cable = no need to spend $1,000 or anything even close to it.

Originally posted by Matt_Stevens
Fire and Cable = no need to spend $1,000 or anything even close to it.

Fire and Cable from a provider that offers HD = priceless.

Until such time, these $1000 mod's are the only way I will ever be able to record HD from non-OTA sources. I really hate Charter!

Matt_Stevens,

I did finally get my 3250 and a mits 2000 working to record at least off SHOHD and HBOHD. Fact remains that I have to play it via a JVC 30K and with much poorer quaility than the MYHD card will play, according to reports, on my G15. The stream can't be recorded on my Panny HD1000 or the JVC 30k. Potentially a problem with my 30K admittedly however, in general, recording to tape is much more of a Kludgy solution than recording to a hard drive.

Further I still have some dropout issues recording mainly from HBO to tape. Tape is nifty but hard drive + a card like the MYHD card is simple and more of a hardware unified solution. I now have 4 DVHS decks with......

1. A HD1000 For playing dish 5000 tapes through the computer

2. A Mits 2000 For recording off a cable box...unable to play the resultant tapes on its own.

3. A JVC 30K for playing in mediocre quality resultant tapes from the Mits and DTheater tapes.

4. Another HD1000 which now sits idle.

and....

5. A Dish 5000 with modulator sitting idle.

6. A Dish 6000 sitting idle.

This is not a cost or solder effective solution in my book.

This extends the working life of my G15 to boot.

For the most part I want to watch and delete the files not mess with a bulky tape. If I do want to watch a movie later, since I have paid for the subcription I want the ability to move it to tape.

Larry

Originally posted by Matt_Stevens
Fire and Cable = no need to spend $1,000 or anything even close to it.

Does no good if you want the content on a hard drive. Most cable systems have turned on 5C for everything but locals.

In was told by my cable provider that SA was the culprit that decided, I suspect to make OTHERS happy, to not allow any stream coming from their 3250 to tape to be moved to hard drive. I supect this is why they are still having problems with 3250 box software and the streams that are supposed to be copy freely. Most reports are we can record, on tape, copy once but not copy freely materials. That's certainly my experience as well.

I don't want to get this off topic, this was posted as a point of information only.

Larry

Originally posted by KevinYee
While my 169time/6000 does record just fine, playback is the problem. My Roku will play the files cleanly. MyHD120 will mostly play it back ok. Fusion HDTV has some dropouts. Hipix can't play it back at all.

I previously had a 169time/DTC100, and none of my PC cards could playback the streams.

Ah, but you aren't playing by the rules here. Hard disk compatibility is not supported by 169time. You are on your own in that domain. Now if you want HDD capability and this new product offers it, then I agree it's a good move. But let's not condem the 169 product because you are asking it ot do something that is not supported. It works fine with the 30K and that's how it's sold.

What exactly doesn't work? My 169 6000/30K combo works just as well as my 5000/DSTU50 did.

Glimmie

I dont have Dish I have bell. The program streams are different. I think others who have this can jump in and confirm the problems with Bel as well.
I sent my unit into 169time. They had it for months and returned it saying they cant figure it out. Of all the HD channels it can only record a few and those have very bad dropouts.
169times service response has been great to me, no complaints. My only complaint is I have a $1700 solution that does not work. My 169time DTC100 worked for the most part but it did introduce a few dropouts per movie. Some worse than others.

Originally posted by Matt_Stevens
Fire and Cable = no need to spend $1,000 or anything even close to it. 5c comes to mind

Originally posted by Matt_Stevens
Fire and Cable = no need to spend $1,000 or anything even close to it.

Firewire + Cable = HD Recording - PPV.

Mark

Originally posted by mdv
Firewire + Cable = HD Recording - PPV.

Maybe for PPV sporting events but the movies will all end up on cable networks like HBO a few months later. That's not a problem for me, I can wait. It's not like there aren't enough other movies to watch now. And the single PPV-HD channel that DirecTV offers doesn't even show most of the movies they offer in PPV-SD. They keep rotaiting the same crap. Their PPV-HD doesn't even show the blockbuster movies.

This thread is getting really off-topic. Is it too much to ask to keep the comments about the new recording/ARCHIVING abililty?

I don't think comparing this product to the alternatives either currently available or soon to be is really off topic. Making such comparisons are necessary. For most $1000 is a lot of money. There is inevitably going to be discussion about the competition. Often such comparisons bring important questions to light.

Personally I will never buy a solution that involves a tape. That pretty much leaves this as the only game in town. I know some of you are going to say cable & firewire but most of the posters in the cable recording threads are reporting that everything but locals has been 5c'd (including the movie channels). I can justify the cost easily by comparing how many dvd's I could buy for the same price.

At this point I'm sold so I guess it is just a matter of waiting for the next two months.

What about 5C copy protection. Does this bypass the security directly or does it rely on the sat providers not turning on the bit?

Friar

Originally posted by FriarTuck
What about 5C copy protection. Does this bypass the security directly or does it rely on the sat providers not turning on the bit?

Friar 5c doesn't exist on these systems

I must be out of touch. Why does anyone want to spend $1000 to buy this mod when $1,000 will buy the new Hughes HD Tivo and then you add hard drive capacity as needed. I must be missing something importnat to everyone but me.

Yes, you're out of touch.

I have the Toshiba DST-3000 with the 169time firewire mod. If I sent that unit to this new company, could firewire and USB 2.0 coexist on one machine so I could use both?

Originally posted by ppiazza
I must be out of touch. Why does anyone want to spend $1000 to buy this mod when $1,000 will buy the new Hughes HD Tivo and then you add hard drive capacity as needed. I must be missing something importnat to everyone but me. Look at the saying under KevinYee's name and you will find your answer.

Thanks for the help kevin!

But really, why the extra steps? I even have the JVC 3000 and DTC 100, but the Hughes/Tivo solution seems so much easier. I understand having tapes makes sharing much easier, but with Blu Ray on the horizon, isn't it just a stop gap?

ppiazza-

How would you add hard drive capacity 'as needed', if you already have two large drives in your HD Tivo (as I do)?

Other things this new system will allow that are not possible on an HD Tivo include editing of the recordings, alphabetizing/categorizing your recording list, etc.

The upcoming super-capacity disk systems (Blu-ray and maybe there are others) will only increase the value of the R5000 and similar systems, not replace them, because Blu-ray will make the recording devices easier and cheaper to use, I expect.

Originally posted by HookedOnTV
I don't think comparing this product to the alternatives either currently available or soon to be is really off topic. Making such comparisons are necessary. For most $1000 is a lot of money. There is inevitably going to be discussion about the competition. Often such comparisons bring important questions to light.


I totally agree with you. It was all the 'Cable + Firewire' comments I was refering to. A lot of us don't want cable and have chosen satellite over it, which is exactly what this product is intended for.

Originally posted by ppiazza
I must be out of touch. Why does anyone want to spend $1000 to buy this mod when $1,000 will buy the new Hughes HD Tivo and then you add hard drive capacity as needed. I must be missing something importnat to everyone but me.

I am definitely planning on an HD TiVo for most of my HDTV viewing. An HD TiVo is not a great archiving solution because the hard drives can not play in any other HD TiVo. You can fill up several pairs of hard drives and swap them at will, which doesn't take more than 10 minutes if your HD TiVo is easily accessible so it makes sense for a short time frame. The HD TiVo dies, so does all of your recordings. For anybody not interested in archiving, I agree with you. The TiVo is an inexpensive computer subject to failure and IDE drives always fail over time. I have several of the standard versions DirecTV DVR with TiVo and think it is a great product.

Chris

Originally posted by FriarTuck
What about 5C copy protection. Does this bypass the security directly or does it rely on the sat providers not turning on the bit?

Friar

Someone correct me if I am wrong... 5c encryption happens in the stb. The flag tells the stb when it should encrypt the data that goes out the firewire (or dvi etc). The recieving device must then be a 5c device and it does the decryption. Most of the older/existing boxes do not have the ability to encyrpt.

Alan -

Couple questions maybe you could answer for us.

- Does the recording app provide the ability to record in chunks?
- If it does, have you tried playback with the Roku after a couple files have been written?

I will be the first to ask what about this for the Dish 811 or Voom? It seems the mod is only available in discontinued models. As the units age there only so many around.


Robert

Originally posted by amelie
I'm going to have to answer the way Matt has, as quoted below:

"Fire and Cable = no need to spend $1,000 or anything even close to it."
Great, but my answer still applies. Don't hold your breath. I have both cable with IEEE1394 (the SA3250HD box), a SA8000HD PVR, and a 169time setup. The latter is leagues ahead of the 3250HD in terms of quality of recordings. The 8000HD has firewire ports but no firebus software (and I would wager that when it gets it the performance will be about the same as the SA3250HD). Sure, the SA box is just a few bucks per month on my cable bill, but so what? It makes recordings that are glitchy as hell, and I wouldn't want that for free.

For some people recording from cable is working well. For others, it isn't working very well unless video glitches and audio dropouts every minute or two are your bag. If so then you're golden. :)

Otherwise, there aren't a lot of choices out there. Matt knows exactly what I'm talking about. He isn't recording, because Telemedia doesn't have firewire boxes. He had a Dish 921, and then the firewire thing came crashing down around it, before that a Dish 5000 + Modulator. When will Telemedia bring firewire to the table? Who knows. When they do get it will it work? Who knows.

There's a lot of "Who knows" in the HDTV recording world Amelie, and if you aren't prepared to endure a lot of teething pains with cable or spend some serious coin on receiver mods then you are probably looking in the wrong place to expand your HT hobby.

Originally posted by HookedOnTV
Alan -

Couple questions maybe you could answer for us.

- Does the recording app provide the ability to record in chunks?
- If it does, have you tried playback with the Roku after a couple files have been written?

It will have the ability to break up the recording into chunk sizes as defined by the user. Currently Alan's SW does not have this feature enabled so he can't test it for you. I haven't tried it with the Roku, but the files are designed to playback consecutively with seamless transitions at the file boundaries.

Originally posted by cjmv50
I will be the first to ask what about this for the Dish 811 or Voom? It seems the mod is only available in discontinued models. As the units age there only so many around.


Robert

The only reason I can think of about it not being available with Voom receivers is that it would probably be defunct once Vooms goes MPEG-4. And then there would be a lot of angry people giving this new company hell about losing $1000. Just my thoughts.

I haven't tried it with the Roku, but the files are designed to playback consecutively with seamless transitions at the file boundaries.

I use HDTVtoMPEG2 when I need to split up the files. I have tested a movie split into multiple files with the Roku and playback is perfect using Streamplayer.

Originally posted by jsaliga
Great, but my answer still applies. Don't hold your breath. I have both cable with IEEE1394 (the SA3250HD box), a SA8000HD PVR, and a 169time setup. The latter is leagues ahead of the 3250HD in terms of quality of recordings. The 8000HD has firewire ports but no firebus software (and I would wager that when it gets it the performance will be about the same as the SA3250HD). Sure, the SA box is just a few bucks per month on my cable bill, but so what? It makes recordings that are glitchy as hell, and I wouldn't want that for free.

For some people recording from cable is working well. For others, it isn't working very well unless video glitches and audio dropouts every minute or two are your bag. If so then you're golden. :)

Otherwise, there aren't a lot of choices out there. Matt knows exactly what I'm talking about. He isn't recording, because Telemedia doesn't have firewire boxes. He had a Dish 921, and then the firewire thing came crashing down around it, before that a Dish 5000 + Modulator. When will Telemedia bring firewire to the table? Who knows. When they do get it will it work? Who knows.

There's a lot of "Who knows" in the HDTV recording world Amelie, and if you aren't prepared to endure a lot of teething pains with cable or spend some serious coin on receiver mods then you are probably looking in the wrong place to expand your HT hobby.

As I posted elsewhere, there is a Mits CableCard ready STB with firewire coming out. It should be better than an SA box. I realize there are problems associated with every new HD option but recording isn't a major desire of mine so I don't want to spend a lot of money on it. I look forward to building Blu-ray and HD-DVD movie collections. The only thing I'd wish to record would be weekly TV shows but the more I think about it the more appealing DVRs sound. I guess I'm having a change of heart about firewire. Maybe it's not nearly as important to me as I had previously thought. ;) FWIW, I prefer satellite to cable but if there's a decent chance I can get good results for less money with cable than so be it.

I have roughly 300 DVHS selected movies on the shelf and adding. I fully understand this tape will most likely not be playable in 15 years. I have both a JVC30K and Panasonic PVHD1000 moth balled as well.

But how much will a terabyte of storage cost in 15 years? I can simply dump these recordings to a server and destroy the tapes. Now I have a lifetime archive to watch during my twilight years.

Originally posted by Glimmie
I have roughly 300 DVHS selected movies on the shelf and adding. I fully understand this tape will most likely not be playable in 15 years. I have both a JVC30K and Panasonic PVHD1000 moth balled as well.

But how much will a terabyte of storage cost in 15 years? I can simply dump these recordings to a server and destroy the tapes. I don't understand why so many people don't get this.

Originally posted by Glimmie
I have roughly 300 DVHS selected movies on the shelf and adding. I fully understand this tape will most likely not be playable in 15 years. I have both a JVC30K and Panasonic PVHD1000 moth balled as well.

But how much will a terabyte of storage cost in 15 years? I can simply dump these recordings to a server and destroy the tapes. Now I have a lifetime archive to watch during my twilight years.

Glimmie

I believe that if you store DVHS tapes vertically at room temperature (+/- 70 degrees) DVHS tapes will almost certainly be playable in 15 years.

If and when there are reliable hard drives, or solid state equivalents, as cost effective as removable DVHS tapes (i.e. $.22/GB for a Fuji SVHS T120 @ $3.75 for 17GB's) you can then transfer your DVHS tape contents to it if you choose.

Or, when Blu-Ray or HD-DVD recorders and blank media meet that same cost effectiveness, you can then transfer your DVHS tape contents there.

I think people are prejudiced against DVHS based on their experiences with analog VHS, which is very different.

However, I believe there plenty of commercial and hobbyist VHS and DVHS libraries that have not and will not disintegrate before their owners very eyes.

"13. What is the life expectancy of HD tape?

Magnetic media can be expected to last at least 30 years provided the recommended practices are followed. Archival stability is usually estimated using the results of accelerated testing. Fujifilm has done many such studies but also, as the first manufacturer of metal particle tape for broadcast use, has the longest-running studies ongoing in real-time. At a NASA-IEEE Mass Storage Conference in 2002 Fujifilm presented results showing that metal particle tape had excellent performance characteristics after almost 15 years of storage."

http://www.fujifilm.ca/tips.asp?parentID=4&SectionID=31&tipID=128&ug=3

Glimmie

I currently own and backup all my movies to a 1.5 terabyte server. I love it, I do not have to load tapes or dvds. I just select a movie from my play list and hit play.
I could not do this will anything recorded with the 169time product ( unless playback again using the 30k ) so for me the new 5000 is a blessing.
I also have the capability with the 5000 and DVHSTools to dump to tape if I have the need so I have both options available to me. With the 169 product I am limited to one.

I love the timer function with the 5000. The whole thing is just so simple to use.

All my testing has been done using a beta version of the 5000 so we have yet to see the product in real world use among different users with different equipment setups but this is "The" most stable system I have ever used and am very confident it will quickly become "The" reference standard.

Its also nice to see they are considering leaving the product open-source ( I hope thats the correct term ) for faster development to further improve on its features. Ive heard there are other HD product manufactures who are already thinking of adding features with their product to offer even greater flexibility if merged with the 5000.

While the AVX has served it purpose it was this lack of flexibility and effort on the manufacture to improve the product or work with anyone who offered to donate their time and expertise to further the product.

The AVX still remains a viable product for those wanting to write/playback via the 30K but I think as more and more HD playback devises come to market I think people will feel far more relaxed knowing the money they just spent ( if spent on the 5000) leaves them the option to chose any playback device to their liking on products currently on the market and future products.

Of course its possible someday we will see the AVX improve beyond its current version. Im sure we would all welcome that. Competition makes everyone work harder to say afloat. In this day and age to survive I think a company has to listen to their customers demands while providing great service and adapt product to keep up with the time. Those that do will survive the long run. We will have to wait and see who delivers as time permits:)

I have +/- 500 feature length HD movies.

If I put them on a server, that would be about 8.5 terabytes.

I don't play any particular movie that often, or, in that many different rooms of my house to justify an archive server of that size or expense.

I do not FFWd or RWND feature films. I may PAUSE or STOP them for a bathroom or telephone break, but, they have no commercials to skip over. I can do that with DVHS tape.

I do have a 2.5 terabyte network that includes (4) OTA PCI HDTV PVR cards for simultaneous recording of up to (3) three shows and simultaneous "chasing playback" of any of them, or, one that was previously record. I delete all these shows immediately after viewing.

I might use that network for PC recording satellite shows like The Soprano's or Deadwood and then delete them as well. They have no commercials to skip over either.

Maybe I need to get more selective in what I record and archive. :)

Nahh!

Murray

Wow thats a lot of movies. Your set for life:)

Ive also become a lot more selective what I archive. I started out recording anything in HD I could get my hands on. I have stuff I will never watch.

Originally posted by Alan Gouger
I have stuff I will never watch.

Alan

Let's be honest here, we all do.

Yet, how many movies, whether on DVHS, DVD or otherwise are you willing to get rid of---today.

Probably not 20% of what you have.

Still, you'll be lucky to be able to say you have watched 25% anytime soon.

Collecting and owning a library of movies, music or books is an additive eclectic pursuit.

Shall we start a 12-Step Program for the Media Addicted?

The first step is that you are not allowed to buy any new hardware recording devices for 12 months. :p

I have well over 1200 HD movies/shows archived to harddrive. I've probably only watched less than 10% of them end to end. Hobby? I'd say this is a sickness!

Hobby? this is a sickness!

Kevin

You've just successfully completed the first step in Murrays 12 step program.

The first step is always admitting you have a sickness:)

Originally posted by KevinYee
I have well over 1200 HD movies/shows archived to harddrive. I've probably only watched less than 10% of them end to end. Hobby? I'd say this is a sickness!

Kevin

Slowly step away from the keyboard, the intervention team will arrive shortly.

Man, I knew I should have bought some of the WD/Maxtor/Seagate stock!

Geez if you guys archived those into WMV format, you would have tons more space, requiring you to record even more stuff! :D My paltry little library only includes about 30 movies right now, and a couple hundred documentary shows, half of all it is in WMV format now.

Originally posted by Kirby Baker
Geez if you guys archived those into WMV format, you would have tons more space, requiring you to record even more stuff! :D My paltry little library only includes about 30 movies right now, and a couple hundred documentary shows, half of all it is in WMV format now. What does WMV format compress them down to per hour anyways?

My movies end up between 2 and 4gb in size. Thats coming from movies that were 15-22GB when in native TS files.

Example: Drumline was 16.0GB in TS, and 4.07GB in WMV.

Also it should be noted that I encode in 1920x1080, while many others are doing 1440x1080 to get extra space savings. I didnt see the need.

Kirby

You may only have 30 movies but it took you as long to convert them to WMV as it took us to record 1000 movies:)

Originally posted by Alan Gouger
Kirby

You may only have 30 movies but it took you as long to convert them to WMV as it took us to record 1000 movies:)

Actually I get paid to encode them, as I set them up in a queue and it encodes all day when I am at work!! :)

Originally posted by Kirby Baker
Actually I get paid to encode them, as I set them up in a queue and it encodes all day when I am at work!! :)

Kirby,

OT:

Isn't your WMV playback quality limited to the HTPC's video card and it's resolution fit with your display?

I read of many 1080i limitations and loss of resolution issues in ATI and Nvidia products.

It seems, while WMV is a lossy but convenient codec, it's not desirable to throw up on a 100"+ digital projector.

Am I misinformed?

Well I only have a 55" RPTV, but I output a 1920x1080i from my ATI through the ATI HD dongle, into my MyHD card, then out to the TV. I can not see any difference in my recordings and my encoded recordings. Maybe its just me, who knows. I have no idea what it would be like on a 100" projector, I can only drool about such a setup.

Oh, brother, Kevin, kevin, kevin...1200 items?

Jeez, I was just redoing my organization, and I found out I have 145 movies. I'm like...uh, I'm approaching 1000 dvdr's, I really have to slow down on the recording thing...

1200 items? Man, that implies something like 12TB of data...

You're sick, refer to your closest (of a zillion sci-fi variants) psychotherapist immediately!

?;~)

Darius

Kevin

Now don't be alarmed, the van is pulling up front now with those nice men in the white coats.

They have a very comfy jacket they'd like you to wear to the inaugural HD Recordaholics Group Meeting.

It's a sickness and we're here to help.

We love ya man.

The 5000... by prescription only

I find this is pretty stupid to use a USB 2.0 interface. Why did they not just use firewire so that it would be compatible with both PC and JVC decks? With the USB interface, one is forced to record to PC and then archive to tape. Some people may just want the fucntionality to record to tape. Firewire would have been the best choice both for PC enthusiasts and DVHS users. Why in the world choose USB?

Originally posted by R5000-HD

Dish 6000
(Records all HD channels from Dish Network, DTV, and also SDTV MPEG2 Dish Network channels.)
[/B]

While you guys are all obsessing over your compulsive/obsessive behavior, could I ask for one small item to be clarified? Does "DTV" in the above quote actually mean "Over the Air High Definition Digital Television"?

Someone please clarify. I'd hate to think that this setup may not record OTA.

Finally, how many recordings do I need to graduate from HDTV enthusiast to HDTV show collector? Someday I'll have a bigger archive than my meagre 14 tapes.

I believe the DTV in the quote is D*.

Originally posted by HookedOnTV
I believe the DTV in the quote is D*.

No, I'm sure it's used in the sense of Digital Television, since it's mentioned separately in both the Dish Network and Direct TV list. But DTV has rarely (if ever) been used to exclusively mean Over the Air High Definition Digital Television. The quotation implies that meaning, however, by separately discussing DISH HD programming, DTV, and SDTV as recordable sources. Does DTV mean HD OTA in this sense?

Originally posted by sierrabob
Does "DTV" in the above quote actually mean "Over the Air High Definition Digital Television"?
It means Digital TV, acquired from local over-the-air stations. The HD part depends on what your local DTV station does. If it pases HD, you'll get HD.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/glossary.php?s=<r=D

Originally posted by HookedOnTV
I believe the DTV in the quote is D*. Wrong.

DTV = Digital TV
D* = DirecTV

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/glossary.php?s=&ltr=D

From the first post:

Welcome to a new era in HDTV recording. Introducing the Nextcom R5000-HD, the first glitch free, all digital HDTV recording system for Dish Network, DirecTV, Bell ExpressVu and ATSC Digital Television (DTV). The R5000-HD delivers the video and audio performance of the Dish 5000 / HD Modulator, for quality and compatibility of it's recordings.

Originally posted by sierrabob
...could I ask for one small item to be clarified? Does "DTV" in the above quote actually mean "Over the Air High Definition Digital Television"?

Someone please clarify. I'd hate to think that this setup may not record OTA.



Originally posted by R5000-HD
Welcome to a new era in HDTV recording. Introducing the Nextcom R5000-HD, the first glitch free, all digital HDTV recording system for Dish Network, DirecTV, Bell ExpressVu and ATSC Digital Television (DTV). The R5000-HD delivers the video and audio performance of the Dish 5000 / HD Modulator, for quality and compatibility of it's recordings.


Yes, you can record OTA. Much of the early development was done using ATSC OTA signals.

Originally posted by Son of man
Why in the world choose USB? Quite simple. It works, and Firewire is much less than reliable for the primary application, which is recording HDTV from Dish Network or DirecTV.

The DTV part by itself can be accomplished successfully through a number of methods. Doing both, correctly, is another story. The R5000-HD can do both.

Originally posted by Alan Gouger
Ive also become a lot more selective what I archive. I started out recording anything in HD I could get my hands on. I have stuff I will never watch. When I first started recording HD off air and from Dish Network, I was going through cases of tapes per month. At some point the novelty wore off and I now always ask myself two questions before hitting the record button: Will I really want to watch this again? Will it be available to record again? Sports seems to be the only real draw lately, along with The Sopranos.

In looking back, I can easily identify the reason why I recorded anything and everything in HD that I could. There was so little HD available. Not anymore.

Originally posted by Ken H
Wrong.

DTV = Digital TV
D* = DirecTV

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/glossary.php?s=&ltr=D

My bad.

Seems like with firewire you have to worry about things like what kind of chip is on your card. USB2 is pretty much standard on any newer motherboard and they usually just work.

Will the software also have a command line interface?

Originally posted by Ken H
Quite simple. It works, and Firewire is much less than reliable for the primary application, which is recording HDTV from Dish Network or DirecTV.

The DTV part by itself can be accomplished successfully through a number of methods. Doing both, correctly, is another story. The R5000-HD can do both.

I thought firewire was just an interface like USB 2.0 which has known specifications for anyone wishing to develop an application using it. I am completely ignorant of why firewire is much less reliable than USB 2.0, can you enlighten me?

:)

I know that firewire can be VERY reliable as means of getting data from one place to another. It is only as good as the hardware it connects to and don’t forget that the bottom line is garbage-in equals garbage-out!

It doesn’t matter much anyway because even if they had chosen to use 1394 rather than USB2 you still would not be able to go directly to tape without a PC. The mpeg streams from satellite – Dish or DirecTV, are not 100% standard and have to be cleaned up. It is much much easier to write a program to do this clean up on a PC rather than making a hardware device that will fit inside a STB do it. It is also much less money!

I’ll be waiting to get one of these!!

Originally posted by Ken H
Quite simple. It works, and Firewire is much less than reliable for the primary application, which is recording HDTV from Dish Network or DirecTV.

The DTV part by itself can be accomplished successfully through a number of methods. Doing both, correctly, is another story. The R5000-HD can do both.

Firewire is very reliable if implemented right. It is much better than any from of USB. USB is really one way bus plus it may slow down to a speed of slowest device on it. I hope it works but I can see problems recording because somebody is using USB mouse which may create a bottleneck.

Originally posted by mike greer
I know that firewire can be VERY reliable as means of getting data from one place to another. It is only as good as the hardware it connects to and don’t forget that the bottom line is garbage-in equals garbage-out!

It doesn’t matter much anyway because even if they had chosen to use 1394 rather than USB2 you still would not be able to go directly to tape without a PC. The mpeg streams from satellite – Dish or DirecTV, are not 100% standard and have to be cleaned up. It is much much easier to write a program to do this clean up on a PC rather than making a hardware device that will fit inside a STB do it. It is also much less money!

I’ll be waiting to get one of these!!

You can pretty much go directly to tape from Dish Network as it they use DVB standard and data packets are 188 bytes. DirectTV on the other hand uses old and outdated DSS standard which has 130bytes packets. It requires extra step of converting from 130bytes to 188bytes packets to make it recordable. That is the reason why PC requirement is higher for DirecTV than for Dish Network.

Originally posted by stgdz
5c comes to mind So what? I have no problem whatsoever with Copy Once. It's how it's going to be and everyone needs to get used to it.

This may interest some of you. We found the cause of the decoder incompatibility/glitches. See the official 169time thread for details.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3908710#post3908710

-Mark

Originally posted by Matt_Stevens
So what? I have no problem whatsoever with Copy Once. It's how it's going to be and everyone needs to get used to it.

I think you guys are missing something here. 5c is not an issue with this mod.

Originally posted by CKNA
You can pretty much go directly to tape from Dish Network as it they use DVB standard and data packets are 188 bytes. DirectTV on the other hand uses old and outdated DSS standard which has 130bytes packets. It requires extra step of converting from 130bytes to 188bytes packets to make it recordable. That is the reason why PC requirement is higher for DirecTV than for Dish Network.

'Pretty much' I guess is correct but you still need to clean-up the stream to make it work with DVHS. You can't take what comes from Dish Network and send it directly to tape. That is the reason why 169time has to have a PC between the receiver and the DVHS.

Originally posted by HookedOnTV
I think you guys are missing something here. 5c is not an issue with this mod.

The point being made is that cable with 5C is much cheaper than buying this tool.

Personally, I think "copy once" onto DVHS will limit the life of the recording to whatever media is chosen at the time. I think many would be interested in moving to BD or HD-DVD when they become available, and dump as much of the VHS tape as possible... 5C won't allow this...

The other advantage with this tool is ease of scheduling. I don't think you can start the DVHS recording from cable using a convenient timer currently...

The only concern I have is if D* decide to change to MPEG4 or something like that. That limits the life of the mod. None the less I picked up a E86 on eBay in anticipation :)

Cheers!
DAve.

I'll bet that, "that" potential problem could be worked around, MPEG 4 that is. This is primarily a software based solution it seems. Some smart people, other than a someone that works for say, JVC, and has his process burnt into a chip, has come up with a way to stabilize a non-standard stream and put it into a software solution useable by PC's.

If he's bright enough to do it with both satellite streams and oddball OTA streams, seems likely he could come up with something to work with MPEG4 doesn't it?

Larry

Not all protocols are alike. There are a lot of important differences between 1394 and USB. Here's a quick overview:

1394 vs. USB:

1394 is a shared protocol where a large number of devices can share a common bus via daisy-chaining. Inter-device communication is possible. For A/V devices (like tuners and VCRs) 1394 also implies AVC support, which is a remarkably complex control protocol so that your VCR can change channels on your tuner and your tuner can start and stop your VCR (if either of them want to). The protocols for just connecting and disconnecting, and finding all the other devices on the bus, are complicated, and AVC just adds another level of complexity. Any device needs to be able to talk to any other device at any time, potentially, so for example, a 1394 device can be in the middle of streaming data to device A when device B sends a connection request, and device C sends a information request, and devices D and E are talking to each other over the same bus, and F and G are negotiating a connection. The amount of work and handshaking required to make and support a connection is relatively large. All devices are pretty much required to support multiple simultaneous connections, or at least servicing multiple simultaneous requests.

USB, by contrast, is a heirarchical system for devices to connect to a host via hubs. Each device does not know or care what other devices are connected to the host, and thus treats its connection like a direct connection to the host (which it basically is). All the data coming in is for the device, so it doesn't have to filter anything, and all the data it sends out is for the host. No other hosts will ever try to connect to it while it's talking to the original host, and no other devices are connected to its channel, because the hub upstream routes all the data to the correct devices. Each device only supports doing one thing at a time. Essentially it feels to the device (and the host) like a direct serial connection, just like a high-speed version of a regular old serial port.

There *are* certain industry standard protocols for USB devices, but they are much simpler. And if you don't mind writing a host driver you can make up your own protocol and use it. Your data can be any format and will never interfere with any other device's data (unless all the devices max out the bandwidth).

USB device chipsets are cheaper and simpler, because they are only talking to a single destination. Thus you can have a $10 USB gamepad, or a $5 USB mouse, etc. You cannot get these pricepoints with 1394, because the chipsets are more expensive and more complex.

The USB bus does not slow down to the lowest speed device - quite the contrary. If you have a USB 2.0 host controller (which any modern machine does) and you are using USB 2.0 hubs (which you should be), you can plug in a USB 1.1 mouse, for example, and it will use a trivial amount of the USB bandwidth from the hub to the computer, which remains at 2.0 speeds. Only if you are sharing a hub with an HD STB and, say a USB hard drive, and using both simultaneously, will you get enough bus contention to cause problems. And even then if you put the hard drive on a different USB root controller you should be OK.

For connecting a device to a computer, USB is a better solution, technically. For connecting many different devices together in an arbitrary topology, USB doesn't work at all - 1394 is a better solution, but is also harder to implement because it's trying to solve a much larger problem.

For this purpose (making a proprietary connection from a computer to a set-top) I think USB is a much better idea. It does mean that it will never be able to connect directly to a VCR, but that's not its purpose. On the plus side, it should be lots easier to get up and running, and should have fewer problems down the road, as USB is a simpler protocol to get right.

Don

(minor edits for clarity)

Originally posted by dmunsil


For this purpose (making a proprietary connection from a computer to a set-top) I think USB is a much better idea. It does mean that it will never be able to connect directly to a VCR, but that's not its purpose. On the plus side, it should be lots easier to get up and running, and should have fewer problems down the road, as USB is a simpler protocol to get right. And there you have it. Thanks, Don.

Originally posted by mkerdman
Magnetic media can be expected to last at least 30 years provided the recommended practices are followed. Archival stability is usually estimated using the results of accelerated testing. Fujifilm has done many such studies but also, as the first manufacturer of metal particle tape for broadcast use, has the longest-running studies ongoing in real-time. At a NASA-IEEE Mass Storage Conference in 2002 Fujifilm presented results showing that metal particle tape had excellent performance characteristics after almost 15 years of storage."

http://www.fujifilm.ca/tips.asp?parentID=4&SectionID=31&tipID=128&ug=3

I can personally attest to some of my vhs tapes lasting over 20 years...
My oldest tape dates back to about 1980 (old RCA 2/4 hour tapes).

i recently tried playing some and to my shock they actually played fine! (you should see some of the ads) Granted they're vhs not dvhs, but dropouts (on these analog tapes) didn't seem especially noticeable. Suspect imho dvhs would hold up similarly.

Additionally, you could say at 10 year intervals make new 'perfect' copies (assuming hdcp didn't get in the way) on new dvhs tapes or whatever is the going media of the time (HD dvd or...)

i didn't do anything special to preserve my vhs's--just kept them vertical OR horizontal in a box in a house with typical temps and humidity. They even survived a couple of moves.

Originally posted by Kim Gilbert
I can personally attest to some of my vhs tapes lasting at least 20 years (at the risk of dating myself here :rolleyes: )

Some tapes have been on my shelves at least that long (old RCA's); recently tried playing some and to my shock they actually played fine! Granted they're vhs not dvhs, but i didn't do anything special to preserve them--just kept them vertical OR horizontal in a box in a house with typical temps and humidity.

Kim

That's been my experience as well with the VHS tapes I have stored in a bedroom closet for more than twenty years.

Interestingly enough, many HD broadcasters use the digital high-definition HD D5 format Tape exclusively for program editing, mastering and HD broadcast delivery over the air, satellite and cable that we watch and record.

Most broadcasters and their content providers entire libraries are tape based.

D-VHS/S-VHS tapes are a very convenient and inexpensive (approx. $.20/GB) removable storage media.

However, should a media server hard drive have it's heads crash or become corrupted, you probably have lost 10 or more of your HD movies, whereas, if a D-VHS/S-VHS tape for some reason becomes unplayable, it's certainly not 10 at a time.

With programs like DVHTools you can always restore the file from tape and archive it to Blu-Ray, HD-DVD or the next big thing in storage at some point in the future.

You've got at least 20 years to think about it.

BTW, the LG 3410 allows you to elegantly copy a DVHS tape's contents to its hard drive, perform perfect on screen frame accurate editing, and then dump the edited result back to DVHS.

Originally posted by mkerdman
BTW, the LG 3410 allows you to elegantly copy a DVHS tape's contents to its hard drive, perform perfect on screen frame accurate editing, and then dump the edited result back to DVHS.

Are you sure it is frame accurate? I think that while you can choose the frame "frame accurately", the resulting cut is at the nearest I frame from what I have seen...

It is certainly cool though! I wish TiVo would do this sort of thing!

Cheers!
DAve.

Originally posted by Phloyd
Are you sure it is frame accurate? I think that while you can choose the frame "frame accurately", the resulting cut is at the nearest I frame from what I have seen...

It is certainly cool though! I wish TiVo would do this sort of thing!

Cheers!
DAve.

Dave

I am able to get several black frames (2-5) at the start and end of commercial segments, or, hard fades to black at which to choose my edit points.

For my editing purposes that's frame accurate, and, you can edit during both Time Shift/Clip Recording or Clip Edit on Playback.

The LG 3410 has full trick play: << >> X5, X20, X50, X300 , 1/2 Speed Slo-Mo, Still Frame, Frame Advance, Smart Skip, Drag & Play, Jump To Start, Jump To End, and Bookmarks.

The 3410 will allow playback over FireWire of D-VHS tapes, including D-Theater, and, all 169Time tapes made from a Dish 600 (tapes made from a DTC100 all work except those from HBOHD).

And, as I said earlier, the LG 3410 allows you to elegantly copy a DVHS tape's contents to its hard drive, perform perfect editing, and then dump the edited result back to DVHS.

Most importantly, it has a marvelous ATSC tuner, and, produces a glorious, lush, native rate (or scaled) HD picture, especially over DVI-HDCP to a digital display.

I apologize for the off topic rant, but, obviously, I like this unit a lot.

Originally posted by shah8
Oh, brother, Kevin, kevin, kevin...1200 items?

Jeez, I was just redoing my organization, and I found out I have 145 movies. I'm like...uh, I'm approaching 1000 dvdr's, I really have to slow down on the recording thing...

1200 items? Man, that implies something like 12TB of data...

You're sick, refer to your closest (of a zillion sci-fi variants) psychotherapist immediately!

?;~)

Darius

He said items not movies.
A whole lot of 3 minute concert clips from the tonight show don't
all add up to 12TB!

(I bet he is closer to only 6TB)

Another test for the chronic PC HD archivist:
How much of your life has been spent filling out hard-drive rebate forms? ;)

Originally posted by HDHTPC
Another test for the chronic PC HD archivist:
How much of your life has been spent filling out hard-drive rebate forms? ;)

HDHTPC

LOL! LOL! (answer, a lot!)

I just did a rough calculation, and I'm currently around 19TB worth of storage now, slowly increasing each day. I gave up on rebate forms long ago, it was just too much hassle to deal with. While most of this is on harddrives, I do have about 800gb or so on DVD-Rs.

There are others out there with collections far larger than mine. I think a user JRICHARDS has a library at least twice the size of mine. I take a little comfort in knowing there are others far sicker than me!


I've recently started to go thru my collection and I'm running Null Packet Stripper on the shows that I'm sure I'll hardly ever watch. Results vary, from over 50% savings, to less than 5. Even though this process claims to not alter the PQ one bit, I'm still not sure of this, which is why I'm only running it on obscure, B-films from my archives. This process is said to make a show unwatchable on a Hipix card, however. Since I only use MyHD, Fusion, and Roku for playback these days, that wasn't as much a concern to me at this point.

Is anyone else out there using Null Packet Stripper to shrink their filesizes down?

I use null packet stripper on everything. Never seen any degredation in image/sound.

Originally posted by HDHTPC
A whole lot of 3 minute concert clips from the tonight show don't
all add up to 12TB!

The Tonight Show music clips take up 3 200gb drives currently.

All the rest is movies, documentaries, sporting events, nature shows, PBS, concerts.

Originally posted by mkerdman
I apologize for the off topic rant, but, obviously, I like this unit a lot.

I like the unit a lot too. Some people have had reliability issues, but the one I have at work has been very good.

I am glad that recordings from this new recording device have been tested against the 3410.

Cheers!
DAve.

Originally posted by cerulean
>>>Playback is accomplished with either PC hardware MyHD, Roku, etc. or software VLC, Elcard, Divco, etc. (Not included).<<<

Does this solution support timeshifting (playing back streams as they are recording)?

Bob

Bob,

As of today I can answer your question in the affirmative for MyHD.

I had MIT make a small change in the application and now MyHD supports single file playback while it is being recorded by R5000-HD. MyHD also keeps track of the changing file size and updates UI data that allows for the use of FF/REW jump times.

Originally posted by Cliff Watson
Bob,

As of today I can answer your question in the affirmative for MyHD.

I had MIT make a small change in the application and now MyHD supports single file playback while it is being recorded by R5000-HD. MyHD also keeps track of the changing file size and updates UI data that allows for the use of FF/REW jump times.

And where/when can we get our hands on that version? :D

Originally posted by Kirby Baker
And where/when can we get our hands on that version? :D

Got money? :p :D

Sure I got money...its not going to be a free upgrade to my current MyHD software? :(

Hello Kirby….It was a joke! Of course you will get a free software upgrade when it is ready to be released.

I’m not going to release it in beta form until several more new features have been added and several current features have been improved.

I learned my lesson with the last beta and this time we’re going slow by adding only one feature at a time so as not to break the software.

I think I may know why you are ready to jump on the software without having the R5000-HD recorder and the answer is ‘no’ MyHD does not now support time-shifting with a single card. However, using 2 MyHD cards in separate computers connected by LAN does allow the second MyHD card to play a single file while it is recording. I don’t have the R5000-HD system (no clear path to sat) and I used 2 MyHD card as stated.

Originally posted by Cliff Watson
Hello Kirby�.It was a joke! Of course you will get a free software upgrade when it is ready to be released.

I know it was a joke, just trying to get some sympathy ;)

Dumb question. I have seen new set top boxed with USB already on them. Would they still need to be modified?

"Wow" real time PVR functions with the MYHD card and the R5000-HD system work perfect.

This just keeps getting better and better.

I tested the new software while recording HBO from Direct. I now have real time PVR functions and I can monitor and watch the movie from the output of the MYHD card while Im recording. That means if you have the 120 card you can enjoy all these new features via DVI.

I am not a technical PC oriented person so I get scared when someone sends me a file and says "just install it you will be all set" but in this case it was simple and it works, first time. Simple.
Thanks guys, keep up the good work:)

Better tell the RS5000-HD folks to add a glitch or two, Alan. This sounds TOO good. Working as you described, the MPAA is going to be all over these guys in a heartbeat and intimidate them into shutting down or severely crippling their system before anybody else ever gets a chance to play with it!

Originally posted by mkerdman
Kim

That's been my experience as well with the VHS tapes I have stored in a bedroom closet for more than twenty years.



You have to remember this is all in THEORY. 10 years ago CD's were supposed to last for 50-100 years. Not so today.

Yes, tapes from the 70s are still playable for many of us.

However, in the early 80s, due to EPA Regulations, the lubricant backing on most tapes was changed. Though you would think all would be fine, by 1984 tapes started shedding the lubricant backing and causing massive jamming in cartridges and drop outs on masters stored on reels.

By the early 90s, most of the High End Pro Tapes that were masters were in horrible shape - with the lubricant coating either flaked off or stuck on the wrong side of the tape as it detached from the backing.

As thus, I wouldnt count on tapes today lasting anything like they did prior to the change in backing in the early 80s.

When it's feasible to get them archieved to Hard Drive, I would certainly take that opportunity.

And besides, I believe the real issue isn't will the media work, it's will there be any working machines to play them on? Seen any Quad 8 or consumer betamax machines recently? (Of course, that also brings into question the Hard Drive interface in 15 years - so there are still no guarantees).

And I'm way off topic :)

I think this solution is great for what it is - a point in time.

Originally posted by HDHTPC
The big scary thought in all of this is : how long will the DTC100 and Dish6000 last?

Will they go the way of the Dodo-bird and Dish 5000 modulator?

DTC100 is 4PSK only, and D* may someday do a receiver swap to get
everyone going on 8PSK.

E* phased out the Dish5000+Modulator... Someday they may do the same
for the 6000.


Having owned various DISH receivers in the 'early' days,the 5000+mod as well as the 6000 (and the 921 for a short time) , I understand perfectly your concern.



Sorry to go OT but your post triggered a question in my mind because I realized that I don't know jack about the transmission formats that D* uses.


Because I had those various peices of equipment and was with DISH for 6 years, I became 'educated' about the various transmission formats from DISH

I am recently no longer with DISH as I have switched to Directv and have the HR10-250 but don't have a clue what the transmission formats they use are.

Are you saing that all Directv receivers, like my HR10-250 , are all 4psk and may need to be swapped out if Directv goes to another transmision format?
Can you explain WHAT the formats that Directv uses are?

I thought with Directv, I was finally done with all this BS of equipment becoming obsolete in just a few years or having to buy upgrade cards (like on the 6000).

Thanks for any info you can give,
Joe

Originally posted by jsaliga
It makes recordings that are glitchy as hell, and I wouldn't want that for free.

For some people recording from cable is working well. For others, it isn't working very well unless video glitches and audio dropouts every minute or two are your bag. If so then you're golden. :)



Jerome,

We all know that you are cursed when it comes to recording HD material.:)

You never had much luck with the model 5000 or Hipix recordings getting to/from your JVC with DVHSTOOL and now I read you are having the same issues with cable.

Someone upstairs has decided that your lot in life is to never be able to get decent HD recordings on tape.

Joe

Originally posted by HDTVFanAtic
You have to remember this is all in THEORY. 10 years ago CD's were supposed to last for 50-100 years. Not so today.

Yes, tapes from the 70s are still playable for many of us.

However, in the early 80s, due to EPA Regulations, the lubricant backing on most tapes was changed. Though you would think all would be fine, by 1984 tapes started shedding the lubricant backing and causing massive jamming in cartridges and drop outs on masters stored on reels.

By the early 90s, most of the High End Pro Tapes that were masters were in horrible shape - with the lubricant coating either flaked off or stuck on the wrong side of the tape as it detached from the backing.

As thus, I wouldnt count on tapes today lasting anything like they did prior to the change in backing in the early 80s.
And besides, I believe the real issue isn't will the media work, it's will there be any working machines to play them on? Seen any Quad 8 or consumer betamax machines recently? (Of course, that also brings into question the Hard Drive interface in 15 years - so there are still no guarantees).


Very good points, i thought about those--the quality of the tapes tended to be better in those days, AND the equipment not being so readily available anymore (although i think i could find a betamax if i really needed to, and most of my 1989 tapes still play too).

It's just that archiving via hard drives usually isn't as convenient as removable media (tapes or dvds). There's one other thing...hard drives can have the rude characteristic of suddenly dying without warning, which in effect requires duplicate backups to be safe. You stand a better chance of detecting tape deterioration before it's too late...

Within 5 years surely we'll have a HD DVD backup option, and (whether dvds have 10 or 50 year lifespans) such will probably be the media of choice for archiving. Of course since digital backups are 'perfect copies', you don't have the 'generation deterioration' characteristic of analog. Therefore, periodic re-archiving of HD DVDs every 10 years should perpetuate those cherished memories...

Originally posted by Alan Gouger
I use HDTVtoMPEG2 when I need to split up the files. I have tested a movie split into multiple files with the Roku and playback is perfect using Streamplayer. Alan can you clarify how and why you would split the files?

Originally posted by splino
Alan can you clarify how and why you would split the files?

Depending on the device you are using it may not support large files. The file system on the Roku won't support files over 2GB.

Originally posted by HookedOnTV
Depending on the device you are using it may not support large files. The file system on the Roku won't support files over 2GB.

Thanks

I think I remember reading that VOOM would use MPEG-4 only for SD.

This is all very interesting but spending another $1000 on a modification when I already spent $1000 on an HD-TIVO is not very apealling to me.

The TIVO Linux people developed SW for the TIVO to allow ethernet interfaces to the USB port.
They also developed a progarm called ExtractStream which let one get the video off of the TIVO to be post processed in a PC.

I am waiting for these SW tools to be upgraded for the HD-TIVO.
Then it will cost me nothing to be able to archive to D-VHS.



The HD TIVO has USB 2.0 so I can see SW apearing for the HD-TIVO to allow direct USB to USB on the PC to take advantage of the speed of USB 2.0

Oh yeah, I already have a MYHD,D-VHS and am a regular user of DVHStool so that is NRE to me.

Originally posted by Glimmie


I don't know about everyone else but my 6000 to JVC30K does work flawlessly. I have now watched about 20 hours of recorded material with perhaps one or two minor glitches in all which could be the JVC or a tape dropout. Hell my 5000 to Panny did no better than that.


Similar experience here. I installed HDVR into 6K IRD myself, built my own AVX1, and I record pretty much flawlessly directly to XP without the JVC. In fact, I have never used any tapes in my 30000, and although I leave the JVC in the chain, it is always off during restore, and I turn it on only during archive /playback. As far as I am concerned, the 169Time system stands on its own. People should be careful that they 1) don't confuse pixelization, and the resulting secondary glitches that can be caused by playing back the less than robust stream through a JVC deck or a card, and 2) don't confuse issues related to player incompatibility of some *.ts files. Remember, not all *ts are alike, and null packets, along with multiple MPEG threads on varying timelines are all allowed. TS specs are very broad, and allow for more timeline trickery than the newest DVD’s. This is why when you try to play back certain *.TS on VLC, for instance, you will get the chow chow chow effect, jumping forwards and backwards in time, with green blank frames. Try to play that flawless TS back through the guts of the JVC, and it plays back fine. Compliance is the name of the game. I have never had the 169Time setup give anything less than perfect results where I have been able to isolate the problem to 169Time, and on the rare occasions where there is a problem, it was traced elsewhere. In FACT, the 169Time system faithfully records glitches, and the resulting pixelization in the stream. WYSIWYG.

When I 1st put together the 169Time system for my friend, I was very frustrated, but experience has taught me that, at least in a 6000, the system is flawless. Not trying to plug for Richard, just telling the facts as I see them.

Originally posted by Capybara 320
Similar experience here. I installed HDVR into 6K IRD myself, built my own AVX1, and I record pretty much flawlessly directly to XP without the JVC. In fact, I have never used any tapes in my 30000, and although I leave the JVC in the chain, it is always off during restore, and I turn it on only during archive /playback. As far as I am concerned, the 169Time system stands on its own. People should be careful that they 1) don't confuse pixelization, and the resulting secondary glitches that can be caused by playing back the less than robust stream through a JVC deck or a card, and 2) don't confuse issues related to player incompatibility of some *.ts files. Remember, not all *ts are alike, and null packets, along with multiple MPEG threads on varying timelines are all allowed. TS specs are very broad, and allow for more timeline trickery than the newest DVD’s. This is why when you try to play back certain *.TS on VLC, for instance, you will get the chow chow chow effect, jumping forwards and backwards in time, with green blank frames. Try to play that flawless TS back through the guts of the JVC, and it plays back fine. Compliance is the name of the game. I have never had the 169Time setup give anything less than perfect results where I have been able to isolate the problem to 169Time, and on the rare occasions where there is a problem, it was traced elsewhere. In FACT, the 169Time system faithfully records glitches, and the resulting pixelization in the stream. WYSIWYG.

When I 1st put together the 169Time system for my friend, I was very frustrated, but experience has taught me that, at least in a 6000, the system is flawless. Not trying to plug for Richard, just telling the facts as I see them.

Capybara 320

I’ve had a 169Time DTC100 for a good while and have recently added a 169Time Dish 6000.

I too am able to get flawless glitch-free D-VHS recordings with a JVC 30K, and perfect PC recordings with DVHSTools and CapDVHS.

I can play the D-VHS tapes back flawlessly and glitch-free on either a JVC 30K through its component outputs, or, over FireWire to an LG 3410 and out its DVI outputs to a digital display.

The Dish 6000 is currently somewhat better with the LG 3410, insofar as it plays all HBOHD tapes perfectly and the DTC100 does have some HBOHD (only- other channels are perfect) glitches when played through the 3410.

The DVHSTools and CapDVHS files play back flawlessly through the JVC 30K directly, and if dumped to D-VHS, they are also perfectly playable on the LG 3410.

These are my actual personal experiences and not a plug for anyone.

Further 169time discussion belongs in the 169time topic.

Originally posted by Ken H
Further 169time discussion belongs in the 169time topic.

Ken,

Correct you are.

Originally posted by Joe Q
Are you saing that all Directv receivers, like my HR10-250 , are all 4psk and may need to be swapped out if Directv goes to another transmision format?
Can you explain WHAT the formats that Directv uses are?
[/B]

As far as I know, all D* transmissions are still 4PSK.

As far as I know, all E* SD transmissions are 4PSK, and all E* HD transmissions are 8PSK.

Some of the newer D* HD receivers may have 8PSK reception capability built in, but it won't be easy to tell which ones until the day that they broadcast something in 8PSK!

I have no idea what sort of timetable they may have in mind to do such a thing.

Not withstanding my doubts about this system and whether it will survive the industry no-no of recording HDTV to a PC that bypasses copy protection, I am curious as to one thing right now- cost


I believe that enough is now known to estimate the total bottom line cost of this system for comparative purposes-

Given- 921 2 sat tuners 1 OTA tuner for 2 recording simultaneously.
Cost- $1000.00 E* only Time shift 25 hours only

Given- HD-TIVO 2 sat tuners, 2 OTA tuners for 2 recordings simultaneously
Cost- $1000.00 D* only Time shift and expandable hard drive capacity

Given- 169Time recording system, 1 recording at a time
Approx street price of $2000 for the system
for 2 recordings simultaneously- $4000
For equivalent of 2 recording plus 1 playback simultaneously: $4500

VOOM- 2 sat tuners, 2 OTA tuners for 2 recordings simultaneously
Cost- $N/A V* only Time shift only HD expansion- unknown

R5000- ?
Alan can you put a realistic $ on a system as I did above for being able to record two HDTV shows and watch a thrid off the drive(s) simultaneously?
I know you would need 2 169Time modified tuners and 3 VCR's to accomplish this with 169Time. Not to mention it would be a klutzey mess to work. Just what would it take minimum for this new system and what would that cost approximation be? We will assume that each system I listed has it's own peculiar benefits that can be said to be remotely related to the basic function of record 2, watch 1.



To date- based on what I have listed above, the HD-TIVO is logically the best investment that promises the most bang for the buck, not only time shifting but also some reasonable method fopr minimum archiving.


For this purpose, please assume we are starting from scratch. That means the cost of the STB and PC and any associated hardware except the dishes and Antenna.

Anyone else can chime in too but I felt Alan is best equipped to accurately state an answer since he has one working.

Originally posted by Don Landis
To date- based on what I have listed above, the HD-TIVO is logically the best investment that promises the most bang for the buck, not only time shifting but also some reasonable method fopr minimum archiving.
What's the reasonable method for minimum archiving?

Hi Don

I only had a beta unit (all features were not activated)

I have no business relationship or connection with the company. The product will be handled on the forum and threw AVS in the same manor as 169time.

I have personally yet to hear anything as far as any firm pricing. I am not included in the companies business decisions:(

Originally posted by Don Landis
R5000- ?
Alan can you put a realistic $ on a system as I did above for being able to record two HDTV shows and watch a thrid off the drive(s) simultaneously?


Don,

If you can make do with only one satellite tuner - which I think should be do-able, since most of the HD satellite programming repeats frequently - then you would need an R5000 ($1000) + receiver ($600?) + MyHD ($280). If you want to be able to record from two OTA sources simultaneously, throw in a Fusion HDTV ($160) . If you want to be able to play back recordings while recording two OTA programs simultaneously, throw in a Roku ($300), or make sure your PC is up-to-spec for software HDTV playback.

How's that?

Originally posted by Don Landis
Not withstanding my doubts about this system and whether it will survive the industry no-no of recording HDTV to a PC that bypasses copy protection...

Isnt this exactly what the 169time is doing as well when I record direct to PC? Is it likely that both the R5000 and 169time are going to be forceably removed from existance?

Originally posted by balazer
receiver ($600?)

Compatible D* receivers for the R5000 can be had for well under $200 from a variety of places. Probably can find some good Hughes variants for closer to $130 if you look hard enough. Mine was $180.

169time does not "support" pc recording. Its only supported config
is to a DVHS deck. My opinions

Dave

Originally posted by balazer

then you would need an R5000 ($1000) + receiver ($600?) + MyHD ($280)

You should be able to get the Hughes E86 on eBay for less than $200 - I got mine for $150 delivered and it is mint.

Cheers!
DAve.

"Don,

If you can make do with only one satellite tuner - which I think should be do-able, since most of the HD satellite programming repeats frequently - then you would need an R5000 ($1000) + receiver ($600?) + MyHD ($280). If you want to be able to record from two OTA sources simultaneously, throw in a Fusion HDTV ($160) . If you want to be able to play back recordings while recording two OTA programs simultaneously, throw in a Roku ($300), or make sure your PC is up-to-spec for software HDTV playback.

How's that?"

I'm not an expert on the "system" in discussion but how does one use this system without the stuff I believe you left out? I actually believe I needed to buy a PC of some sort to use this solution. If not then I misunderstood the system totally, or, you have left out one of the most important parts of the system.

In addition, there is no such thing as "If I can live without" in a comparison. I can live without any of the stuff in my home theater but if I want to do what the systems offer for the bare minimum then being able to record two programs while watching a 3rd prerecorded appears to be the defacto standard of the lowest price ($1000) alternatives. All my competitive alternatives offered a recorder in the price.

So to answer your "How's that?" you get an F in this "quiz" on what the system to do the task(2 record/1 playback) will cost. :)

If this system can't be made to do that then I suppose we can assume that multiple systems (including PC and hard drive) are required as I did with the 169Time comparison.


Alan- We can add the R5000 at $1000 as was stated in this thread. Not asking you to commit to a sale price, just a ball park figure that would allow someone to purchase a turnkey system to do 2 sat/1 playback recording with the R5000 as we can do with an HDTIVO. Also, I don't want to buy a new car and try to drive it off the lot and discover the engine missing and the tires, only to hear the car salesman say, "we thought you would supply your own engine and tires. "

Just searching for the TRUE price of this system. I do suspect that it will be the Rolls Royce of recording solutions with a price tag to match! For most mortals, with wage earner budgets, HDTIVO may be the more practical solution, given it's features and ability to swap out hard drives for archiving. Beyond that, we have a HDTIVO or 921 for time shift PLUS 169Time single channel record for archive to tape combo. The later is what I am using. That makes a real cost at $2000 for 169Time plus $1000 for time shift or $3000 total timeshifting and DVHS record archive.

Maybe this has already been answered elsewhere in the thread, but with the R5000 (with MyHD card if needed) is is possible to watch the stream in real time as well (ie SAT HD in a window on the PC), or can you only save out TS/MPG files and view the saved files?

with the R5000 (with MyHD card if needed) is is possible to watch the stream in real time

James

With the new software for the MYHD card "you can" using the output of the MYHD card. PVR functions , pause, rewind ect ,all in real time.

Originally posted by Kirby Baker
Isnt this exactly what the 169time is doing as well when I record direct to PC? Is it likely that both the R5000 and 169time are going to be forceably removed from existance?

My guess is that the R5000 will have as much market penetration as 169time. That equates to not nearly enough units out there for the DBS companies to even investigate shutdown options. And now we have other alternatives, HD TiVo, PVR921 (not everybody cares about 1394 ports), and 1394 equipped cable boxes. So that's even less people for now contemplating off market HDTV recording options.

Face it, there are few people who will invest $1000+ in a gray market modification product. Those who are not technically savy enough to work with it will surely have similar 169time type problems and will condem the R5000 product here.

Just like 169time, at the end of they day, there will be few units sold. Hint, even 1000 units in the consumer electronics market is nothing.

Originally posted by Don Landis

I'm not an expert on the "system" in discussion but how does one use this system without the stuff I believe you left out? I actually believe I needed to buy a PC of some sort to use this solution. If not then I misunderstood the system totally, or, you have left out one of the most important parts of the system.

In addition, there is no such thing as "If I can live without" in a comparison. I can live without any of the stuff in my home theater but if I want to do what the systems offer for the bare minimum then being able to record two programs while watching a 3rd prerecorded appears to be the defacto standard of the lowest price ($1000) alternatives. All my competitive alternatives offered a recorder in the price.

So to answer your "How's that?" you get an F in this "quiz" on what the system to do the task(2 record/1 playback) will cost. :)

If this system can't be made to do that then I suppose we can assume that multiple systems (including PC and hard drive) are required as I did with the 169Time comparison.


.

Should we quote the price of the Monitor as well? How about the AC3 unit? The Speakers?

You can't put a simple price on it as there are too many variables. Price the PC you want and add it to the $1000. Some may already have the equipment needed. Others might not.

Being on the cutting edge is never cheap. There are always cheaper solutions - though maybe more compromise.

So after reading the thread I've come to the conclusion that this is a product for either:

a) People with more dollars than sense
or b) people with a sickness for collecting

What am I missing here?

Are people not willing to wait the extra 6-12 months for the effects of OpenCable to start spilling over?

$1700 is a lot of money to spend for a piece of a kludged system. At the end of the day we're talking about a hack. It might be a professional hack but still ...

Please help me understand

Cheers,
Steve

Being on the cutting edge is never cheap

Should read BLEEDING Edge.

Larry

Originally posted by Tivolicious

What am I missing here?Please help me understand

Steve


I have three HD display devices in my house. I want to be able to watch any HD movie/show on any of the displays at anytime. This is one of the main reasons for me on why I archive HD shows to harddrive. I just pop in the drive with the movie to one of my servers, then over my gigabit network, just stream that movie to the HD display via either a PC with MyHD card, or a Roku.

I do have the Hughes HD DirecTivo on one of my HD displays, but even with 2nd 300gb drive I have in there, that's not enough storage for me to keep everything I'd want to watch on hand. I'd also have to put one of the HD-Tivos on each HD display as well.

I like the convenience of being able to choose from a large library of HD shows whenever I have the time to sit back and enjoy a movie.

Originally posted by Don Landis
Just searching for the TRUE price of this system. I do suspect that it will be the Rolls Royce of recording solutions with a price tag to match! For most mortals, with wage earner budgets, HDTIVO may be the more practical solution, given it's features and ability to swap out hard drives for archiving. Beyond that, we have a HDTIVO or 921 for time shift PLUS 169Time single channel record for archive to tape combo. The later is what I am using. That makes a real cost at $2000 for 169Time plus $1000 for time shift or $3000 total timeshifting and DVHS record archive.

Don,
I think you've left out a few things in your 169time calculation, like two AVX-1s and two JVC 30Ks...

I'll try and answer your "True" system price, assuming 2 tuners, and time shifted playback: Two SAT receivers ($300 D*/ $500 E* each), Two R5000-HD $1000 (- TBD AVS discount), One 2.4 Celeron PC w/XP home 256MB/80G($399 dell). One Firewire card ($20), One MyHD card ($150-280) and one DVHS deck ($300-$500). ($0.50-$0.33/Gbyte) extra storage.

There are a couple of advantages to this setup. Nextcom has been working closely with our MIT contact to add simultaneous playback on MyHD while the R5000-HD is recording. We've tested this on a beta release and we believe that it will be available on MyHD prior to our release date. So you should be able to view each program while it is recording. Additionally the programs are recorded to hard disk, so you don't have to worry about running out of tape when queuing up a batch of recordings. The R5000-HD will support direct recording to DVHS, however a more useful feature would be to use back round archiving to tape. The back round task would push recordings out to tape, eject the tape, and prompt the user for another tape, while recording the current programs to disk.



A couple of caveats:
Software ware does not currently support DVHS or Two R5000-HDs on one system at this time. But it is on our list, and relatively straight forward to add. Delayed archiving could also be added. Support for intelligent selection of "which recorder to use" and conflict resolution would need to be added to the two tuner solution.

-R

So using the low-end numbers you provided, it looks like in order to have the ability to record two things at once while playing a third recording back would take $3,469, assuming the software is upgraded to support the dual recordings. The advantages of this setup would be unlimited storage (only limited by your hard drives in your PC, and/or tapes).

Alternatively, people could get the $1,000 HD-Tivo, and then hack it (via mechanisms not allowed to be discussed here) to allow archiving/playback via a PC (which you'd have to buy if you don't have one, obviously). The mechanisms to extract the content from the HD-Tivo may not be fully functional at this point either, of course.

Decisions, decisions... I'm leaning toward sticking with the Tivo interface I've been using for a few years now for time-shifting, and seeing what happens and what's available in the upcoming months and years for any archival needs.

I think for many of us, the additional cost is the mod and maybe a receiver. I got an E86 for $150 on eBay. I have the PC, the DVHS, and all the other stuff. I am sure that few other HD recording enthusiasts are starting from scratch.

If you are, and are not technically minded, then the HD TiVo is a great choice.

For me, this mod will give me what I seek (path to tape) for around the same price as the TiVo.

Cheers!
DAve.

Originally posted by BrettStah
Alternatively, people could get the $1,000 HD-Tivo, and then hack it (via mechanisms not allowed to be discussed here) to allow archiving/playback via a PC (which you'd have to buy if you don't have one, obviously). The mechanisms to extract the content from the HD-Tivo may not be fully functional at this point either, of course.

I don't think it's known whether this is even possible. HDTiVo might encrypt the contents of the disk.

Originally posted by Don Landis
I'm not an expert on the "system" in discussion but how does one use this system without the stuff I believe you left out? I actually believe I needed to buy a PC of some sort to use this solution. If not then I misunderstood the system totally, or, you have left out one of the most important parts of the system. ...
So to answer your "How's that?" you get an F in this "quiz" on what the system to do the task(2 record/1 playback) will cost. :)
[/B]

You are giving me an 'F' because I left out the PC? If you don't already have a PC, you should not be here.

You are typical of many of my students I had. You fail to see that your rocket crashed in the ocean! ... even after it was all over the news. :)

The assignment was to calculate the cost of the recording system, excluding the antennas and dishes.

Besides, having a PC in the home theater is not a prerequisite for recording HDTV nor posting in this section.

Originally posted by balazer
I don't think it's known whether this is even possible. HDTiVo might encrypt the contents of the disk. Without getting into lots of details it seems that it is possible. You'll need to go to other forums though for the details.

The sat Tivo's just record the stream as it's coming in which is encrypted by the provider. Decryption occurs at playback time.

Was it ever mentioned whether or not there will be a command line interface to the software? Or even some kind of remote (network) control protocol?

Originally posted by R5000-HD
The R5000-HD will support direct recording to DVHS

-R

-R

How is this possible?

I would have to assume you would need a PC equipped with a MyHD or Fusion card looping the R500-HD's USB recording/recorded file back out their FireWire connection to a D-VHS deck.

Is that what you meant?

Originally posted by mkerdman
-R

How is this possible?

I would have to assume you would need a PC equipped with a MyHD or Fusion card looping the R500-HD's USB recording/recorded file back out their FireWire connection to a D-VHS deck.

Is that what you meant?


Murray,
Sorry I was assuming the PC is part of the R5000-HD system. What I was trying to say was that R5000-HD will, at some point, allow you to save the Mpeg2 transport stream to DVHS without out writing the file to disk first. The current version of software records the TS files to disk. I use DVHStool to archive the programs to DVHS tape. In a future version of the software, we plan to add the directx drivers to record the TS file to DVHS.


today: STB->PC->disk->dvhstool->DVHS

Future: STB->PC->DVHS or STB->PC->disk, or both at the same time.

Since the R5000-HD has an IR sender/receiver integrated into the hardware. It would be possible for either the STB (guide) or the PC(zap2it) to control scheduled recordings.

-R

Is there any chance/desire that this mod could be done to the cband receiver (hdd-200)?

After my limited Firewire experience with a JVC 30k locking up the SA 3250HD when changes happen at the vcr - not to mention the loss of sync and subsequent running out of IEEE Devices, I do believe that USB 2.0 is a much better option.

However, I am curious have you "toture tested" the USB bus with a keyboard/mouse/external hard disk drive and maybe even printers, scanners and dvd recorders on the bus at the same time?

The first 3 are very common place today - and the later not that uncommon either.

Originally posted by R5000-HD



today: STB->PC->disk->dvhstool->DVHS

Future: STB->PC->DVHS or STB->PC->disk, or both at the same time.



-R

169time TODAY: STB->AVX-1->DVHS or STB->AVX-1->DVHSTool->DISK, or both at the same time, and glitch free with a DISH6000.

What I would really like to see in future developments of DVHSTool, 169Time, or this R5000-HD device, is a one button archive function to DVD. It's ridiculously time consuming now to compress and author an HD program to DVD. Recording to DVHS tape will likely be around awhile until .ts file archiving to DVD becomes as simple as burning MP3 files.

Originally posted by sierrabob
169time TODAY: STB->AVX-1->DVHS or STB->AVX-1->DVHSTool->DISK, or both at the same time, and glitch free with a DISH6000.

What I would really like to see in future developments of DVHSTool, 169Time, or this R5000-HD device, is a one button archive function to DVD. It's ridiculously time consuming now to compress and author an HD program to DVD. Recording to DVHS tape will likely be around awhile until .ts file archiving to DVD becomes as simple as burning MP3 files.

If I'm interpret-ting this correctly, you want one of these solutions to transcode to a DVD-compliant format? Why? This, like the 169-Time mod, is a High-Definition recorder, not a DVD recorder. You can always record the streams to DVD and play them back whenever, just like we can with a MyHD card (or the likes).

I know an All-In-One solution would be nice, but heck, let's just accomplish DSS HD recordings without glitches using the playback hardware/software that is on the market.

If you meant something else, please ignore my post.

Originally posted by taz291819
If I'm interpret-ting this correctly, you want one of these solutions to transcode to a DVD-compliant format? Why? This, like the 169-Time mod, is a High-Definition recorder, not a DVD recorder. You can always record the streams to DVD and play them back whenever, just like we can with a MyHD card (or the likes).

I know an All-In-One solution would be nice, but heck, let's just accomplish DSS HD recordings without glitches using the playback hardware/software that is on the market.

If you meant something else, please ignore my post.

Well, I've tried to make a real 480p DVD from a 1080i broadcast with 5.1DD, similar to what you would rent or buy and place in your DVD player (not the DVD drive in your PC). It's way too involved and time consuming for mere mortals.

Yes, one of these solutions should include transcoding to DVD, not just DVHS or hard drive. That would be a huge advance. I could start sharing my HD recordings with people other than hobbyists. Isn't that what we want to do, show off these archives to our friends? It's hard to do, because Terabyte hard drives and DVHS decks aren't exactly common household items. But who doesn't have a $60 progressive scan DVD player these days? Although it's probably illegal to do so, I'm sure my neighbors would enjoy having DVD copies of the Sopranos series in HD or something of similar quality. But I'm not going to spend hours, if not days, to compress, encode, and author a few hours worth of programming to DVD.

Someday you'll just schedule an HD recording and select tape, disk, or DVD as the recording medium. The guy who figures out the DVD part will get rich the fastest.

Originally posted by sierrabob
What I would really like to see in future developments of DVHSTool, 169Time, or this R5000-HD device, is a one button archive function to DVD. It's ridiculously time consuming now to compress and author an HD program to DVD. For the time being, it's pretty simple to run analog outputs from your <insert device name that contains HD content> to a standalone DVD recorder that you can pick up for a pretty reasonable price nowadays. Or a capture device hooked to a PC.

Hi guys,

I have researched the HD Tivo mods needed to allow archiving and it doesn't sound like a lot of fun. Naturally it involves encouraging the box to record the streams without scrambling and this task alone requires hardware alterations. Plus a software update from TiVo could overwrite your software modifications at any time...

So it seems that you can a) do an inexpensive hardware modification on a very expensive box or b) do a very expensive hardware modification on an "inexpensive" box :)

Also, the latter results in a recording on your HDD - the TiVo results in a recording that has to be network transferred afterwards in order to archive to tape.

Both solutions require a PC, IEE1394 and DVHS in order to archive to tape.

Cheers!
DAve.

However, I am curious have you "toture tested" the USB bus with a keyboard/mouse/external hard disk drive and maybe even printers, scanners and dvd recorders on the bus at the same time?

I do not have a printer hooked to the PC im using but I do do everything else at the same time including serf the net and run my XM radio and nothing has interfered with each other. From my standpoint this is a very simple and easy to use and it just plain does what they claim. I made a numerous. I have made several HBO archives from Direct and they are flawless. This brings back memories of the good old days of the Dish 5000 with the modulator.

Originally posted by sierrabob
Yes, one of these solutions should include transcoding to DVD, not just DVHS or hard drive. That would be a huge advance. I could start sharing my HD recordings with people other than hobbyists. Isn't that what we want to do, show off these archives to our friends? It's hard to do, because Terabyte hard drives and DVHS decks aren't exactly common household items. But who doesn't have a $60 progressive scan DVD player these days? Although it's probably illegal to do so, I'm sure my neighbors would enjoy having DVD copies of the Sopranos series in HD. But I'm not going to spend hours, if not days, to compress, encode, and author a few hours worth of programming to DVD.

Someday you'll just schedule an HD recording and select tape, disk, or DVD as the recording medium. The guy who figures out the DVD part will get rich the fastest.

It would be possible to do this - although it wouldn't be real-time and it wouldn't be HD.

It kind of defeats the purpose of HD recording if you put it on a DVD to played on a regular DVD player doesn't it? I guess the quality would be better than recording the SD channels from Dish or DirecTv but it is not even close to HD.

You would be better off by doing what BrettStah said using the S-Video Output from your HD receiver. Depending on your receiver you may have to switch to SD to even get video on the S-Video out.

Originally posted by BrettStah
For the time being, it's pretty simple to run analog outputs from your <insert device name that contains HD content> to a standalone DVD recorder that you can pick up for a pretty reasonable price nowadays. Or a capture device hooked to a PC.

What would some low res analog DVD copy of a 1080i or 720p program with DD5.1 sound be good for? Don't most people play frisbee with stuff like that? Seriously, if you can easily make high quality DVD copies of HD material I'd like to know the details.

Some people have stated that feeding a high quality HD signal (downconverted of course) into a DVD recorder or PC-based capture device produces very nice-looking DVDs. Also, I think that Philips recently came out with, or will soon come out with, a DVD recorder that can record 5.1 audio. Anyway, it's a viable option for some, but if you don't like it you don't have to use it.

Originally posted by sierrabob
Well, I've tried to make a real 480p DVD from a 1080i broadcast with 5.1DD, similar to what you would rent or buy and place in your DVD player (not the DVD drive in your PC). It's way too involved and time consuming for mere mortals.



I've done it, it's simple, but it does take a while. Until we get a real-time MPEG-2 1920x1080 hardware encoder on our hands, at a decent price anyways, we're going to have to use software encoding.

Originally posted by taz291819
I've done it, it's simple, but it does take a while.

taz291819

Please give us a quick, admittedly off-topic, summary of how you do it.

Originally posted by taz291819
I've done it, it's simple, but it does take a while. Until we get a real-time MPEG-2 1920x1080 hardware encoder on our hands, at a decent price anyways, we're going to have to use software encoding.

The last price I saw for the JVC30K on ecost was $249.99. I guess in some sense you could call that a decently priced real-time MPEG-2 1920X1080 hardware encoder, recorder, and decoder.

The last price I saw for the JVC30K on ecost was $249.99. I guess in some sense you could call that a decently priced real-time MPEG-2 1920X1080 hardware encoder, recorder, and decoder.

The JVC doesn't encode HD, only SD. HD must come in already MPEG-2 encoded. And I'm not even sure it's using MPEG-2 to record SD - it might be using MJPEG or something similar.

Don

Originally posted by Don Landis
You are typical of many of my students I had. You fail to see that your rocket crashed in the ocean! ... even after it was all over the news. :)

Thank goodness you are not typical of my teachers.

Originally posted by Phloyd

So it seems that you can a) do an inexpensive hardware modification on a very expensive box or b) do a very expensive hardware modification on an "inexpensive" box :)



They both cost $1000 and with a) you get the benefit of a single STB that has all the good stuff on it with no effort since it is a TIVO and has multiple recordings.

I'll take a) and like you, have been researching how to do it.

nuff said.

Joe

"Thank goodness you are not typical of my teachers."

Just read your profile... Glad you are still a student. Hopefully when you finally get it, it will be in school rather than professionally. Would hate to see you argue your way to getting fired for cost over run when you estimate your first project, then purchasing doesn't have enough budget to make the system work because you left out something as basic as the backbone of the system. Maybe I'm not typical of your teachers, but I assure you I am typical of your future boss! Good Luck!

Originally posted by mkerdman
taz291819

Please give us a quick, admittedly off-topic, summary of how you do it.

As soon as I get home I'll search for my post that lists the steps and link it here.

Do all the directv receivers output at 720p or is it a different output for each model? Also does the E86 have to be the HIRD model? Final question what is a P4 card?

The "P4 card" is the smart card that you use to gain access to DIRECTV programming. When you get a new receiver, they will marry the card to the receiver and to your account.

As far as I know, there is no divorce procedure, so if someone has used the receiver, the card that they used with it cannot be used by you, though it can be used as a trade for DIRECTV and they will send you a virgin card.

If the receiver comes with a virgin card, you are good to go...

Older receivers had HU cards, though I was told in the hardware forum that DIRECTV will not activate an HU card, even if it has never been used. I have not confirmed or denied this... my current receivers have P4 cards.

The P4 is plain light blue looking and the HU card has football pictures on it and is predominantly dark blue.

Cheers!
DAve.

Originally posted by Joe Q
They both cost $1000 and with a) you get the benefit of a single STB that has all the good stuff on it with no effort since it is a TIVO and has multiple recordings.

I'll take a) and like you, have been researching how to do it.


Yes I saw that ;)

The dual recording is nice with the TiVo. For me, I can record OTA two ways already and I doubt that I will want to record two SAT sources at once, seeing as they repeat things over and over for the most part.

The single box - no PC needed unless you want to run a tape - is also a big plus for the TiVo. I love my SD TiVo.

Cheers!
DAve.

Lets keep this on topic.

Yes the Tivo is cheaper. If it allowed us to archive and playback the files using our choice of decoders then I would be using one. There would be no need for
169time or the 5000.

I read on one of the other forums and conversed with one of the guys performing the mods to dump the Tivo files to HD and that is far from perfect, not perfected and is a multiple task procedure.

Tivo serves its purpose for those who dont care about archiving and building library.

169time and the 5000 fit the needs for others. This thread is dedicated to the 5000. Lets not turn it into a Tivo thread.

Those in this thread interested in the 5000 dont care about the Tivo. It does not provide at this time what they are looking for.

Originally posted by Alan Gouger
Those in this thread interested in the 5000 dont care about the Tivo. It does not provide at this time what they are looking for.

Well not entirely true, I have a HD Tivo on order, and plan on getting 1-2 R5000's. But as you said, two different technologies with 2 different end goals. The HD Tivo will be for simple time shifting of things I dont want to archive (network shows for example) and general viewing of D*, while the R5000's will be for pure archiving.

I cant wait for both units to get into my hands, it will make life a lot easier, and my pocket much lighter too!

Originally posted by Alan Gouger

Those in this thread interested in the 5000 dont care about the Tivo. It does not provide at this time what they are looking for.

I echo Kirby's comments 100%. The HD Tivo is real simple and convenient for pure time shifting. The R5000 will be used for archiving and ultimate encoding of "keepers".

Originally posted by Ron Tobin
The R5000 will be used for archiving and ultimate encoding of "keepers".

Yeah, those "keeper"s like the ones I missed the past few weeks because of power outages!!!! GRRRRRRR!

Originally posted by Alan Gouger
Lets keep this on topic.

Those in this thread interested in the 5000 dont care about the Tivo. It does not provide at this time what they are looking for.

This topic is about the 5000. And people have talked about 169time and TiVo (and even cable + DVHS) because they offer a path (however complex) to a similar end.

Also, I believe that not all people interested in the 5000 are 100% archivers. There has been a lot of talk about recording and playback simultaneously, which is more a PVR feature than an archiving feature.

I look at the Tivo discussion as being along similar lines to the 169time comparisons. We are discussing price, quality and ease of use - and each contributor has some mix of archiving and PVR needs...

FWIW, I think that the 5000 wins out for my needs, hence my purchase of an E86 in anticipation :)

It would seem to me that the 5000 wins on ease of use alone, with the PC based application SW giving us compatible TS files in a single step, as well as useful timer capabilities, making it like an external SAT version of a HiPix or MyHD.

Cheers!
DAve.

"169time and the 5000 fit the needs for others. This thread is dedicated to the 5000. Lets not turn it into a Tivo thread."

Very true, but then...... why hijack the 169Time thread with R5000 HD stuff, allow only 169Time stuff in their thread, and likewise here. Should be simple, right? But opinions vary like mileage, and YOU own this forum.

"I look at the Tivo discussion as being along similar lines to the 169time comparisons. We are discussing price, quality and ease of use - and each contributor has some mix of archiving and PVR needs..."

Concur, please start a thread for such debate, don't hijack existing threads 169Time or R5000-HD , just a opinion, which vary...... ;-) Take care, I will watch some HDTV of my choice tonight!