Moxi ( Motorola BMC90xx ) Q&A and Discussion Thread [Text View] - Page 40

CharterJames

07-30-07, 09:03 AM

I just got a MOXI when moving to Studio City and unfortunately I'm not a fan. Maybe I will be if Time Warner would update to version 4.1 of the software I can use an external HD to get the space I used to have with the 6416 I had in Hollywood, CA with Time Warner. Also, the box is so slow to respond to any commands from the remote and the volume thru the TV is so much lower than with the cable connected directly or with my old 6416 I had in Hollywood. If anyone has new status updates regarding Time Warner updates would be greatly appreciated.

Besides all that, I wish my old Replay did HD and was able to go back to that, that was the best DVR i had till I switched to High Def.

4.1 addresses the slowness with the remote and moxi guide - I can't immagine TW not eventually going to it. The bad news is the Moxi has always had lower sound output than other Motorola boxes and 4.1 made it worse - this is a known issue (I talked with the Digeo NOC on Friday about it) - some people can get better performance by switching to Stereo or Dolby output on their audio, but across the board you're not going to find a moxi that has the same volume level as a 6416.

Also update on 6416 hard drive expansion - Motorola documentation says it's possible, but no update on how it's implimented - my sources up the corporate chain do not know if there's a date or push to deploy this feature, but I'm leaning on them as I know it will cause a stir since BMC9012s (and 22s) are pretty much a "limited edition" now.

dagware

07-30-07, 01:04 PM

IBesides all that, I wish my old Replay did HD and was able to go back to that, that was the best DVR i had till I switched to High Def.
Amen to that!

-Dan

Houdini

07-30-07, 05:21 PM

kelliot

07-31-07, 01:42 AM

MoxiGuy

07-31-07, 01:54 AM

Hell will freeze over before TWC updates.Side bet?

Pye in LA

07-31-07, 02:02 AM

Side bet?

Now THAT'S what I like to hear!

MoxiGuy

07-31-07, 02:41 AM

Now THAT'S what I like to hear!What? That I'm a degenerate gambler? Or an inveterate optimist? I don't actually know what's going to happen. But I choose to stay hopeful.

quadrophenia

07-31-07, 06:23 AM

Hey everyone...got my Moxi from Charter nearly 24 hours ago and have a few questions...sorry if they've been asked before but this thread is massive and difficult to search.

My box hasn't downloaded any data for the onscreen program guide. All the channels just have the Charter logo and the program airing says "TBA." Is this a problem that I need to contact Charter about or does it really take this long for the guide to become available?

Also...is there any way to turn this thing off? The remote has no power button that I can find, but this thing is kinda loud and obviously runs very hot.

Thanks in advance for the responses!

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I've tried a reset and I've done various triggers per the faq, to no avail. For some reason the ticker seems to be working but that's all.

Jawz

07-31-07, 10:44 AM

Sounds like your box has not been provisioned. Probably an incompetent Charter person installed it. Anyway you will now have to call them and have them take care of the EPG on their end. They should be able to do this, though I've found sometimes it takes 2-3 phone calls and about 2 hours of your time to get this accomplished. Good luck.

As for the power off. No, the box is always on. This is no turning it off, it's meant to be on all the time.

1nite

07-31-07, 10:49 AM

CharterJames

07-31-07, 11:20 AM

Usually when the guild data doesn't come up it's the modem being either unprovisioned or not working - however since you have a working ticker with data - that's not the case (you can also test this in the internals - option 8, 82 - ping test)

Sounds like the map selection was never done by the installer - half the time they are calling in begging dispatchers / clerks and support people to put it on the box remotely rather than doing the map selection.

You get to this by going to the Settings - then the Channel guide and doing "Back" "Next" "Back" on the remote - if you do it right you should get a sub-menu that asks you what map you want - select it and you should have a map & channel data within 5 minutes.

If you can't get in there - email me at firstname.lastname@chartercom.com with your DOCSIS id from the back of your box - I should be able to get into the system there (you'll also need to let me know what city / county / state the map should be so I can select the right one!!!)

And no- it never shuts off and always keeps making that noise... I frequently unplug mine in the office when I'm not testing something with it. (and for those who are keeping score on 6416 vs Moxi debate - you can turn off the 6416 - but it won't record while it's in "standby" mode)

PWSHER

07-31-07, 12:10 PM

quadrophenia

07-31-07, 01:24 PM

CharterJames:

Your instructions worked perfectly. Thanks so much for your informative and helpful suggestion!

CharterJames

07-31-07, 01:33 PM

CharterJames:

Your instructions worked perfectly. Thanks so much for your informative and helpful suggestion!

Not a problem :) Glad your up and running!

greinstein

07-31-07, 02:28 PM

Side bet?

Knowing TWC, if we get 4.1, it will be without the external drives, or the day after the retail boxes come out

dagware

07-31-07, 03:38 PM

Knowing TWC, if we get 4.1, it will be without the external drives, or the day after the retail boxes come out
No, no, no -- it will be the day after I buy something else. Anyone want to finance a test? :D

-Dan

thilt

07-31-07, 05:20 PM

Adelmoxi

08-01-07, 01:56 AM

Hey fellow MOXI lovers,

To MOXI Messenger and MOXIGuy, Any update on the new retail MOXI units? Also, how does VOD or PPV workd on an M-card device will the cable co have to support it? Or is it up to Degio?

mhetterm

08-01-07, 02:32 AM

Moxi Folk,

Any update on the slingbox issues? This is starting to be very frustrating ...

thilt

08-01-07, 05:54 AM

I just received the 1TB Buffalo DriveStation Duo. It is 2 500GB disks which I connected to my computer and configured in the "spanning" mode which is supposed to make it operate like one 1TB drive. I plugged into MOXI and got a message saying only 1 EHD at a time. I clicked "ok" but was worried. MOXI forced me to format the drive and then, as feared, MOXI is now only recognizing 500GB. I confirmed this with some quick math on my recorded shows as well as in the hardware statistics in Diagnostics.

Any ideas? I posted this in the MOXI forum too.

Update- After playing around with it this afternoon, I'm confused. I'm not sure my math above was right. Is there a screen in On Screen Diagnostics that will confirm whether MOXI is seeing 500GB or 1TB?
Problem resolved. New question emerges- We had a power outage last night. When I clicked on external hard drive this morning, it told me I needed to format it. I did and voila! my used space was cut in half from when I went to bed. It is now clearly recognizing 1TB of space. Now I'm concerned about the next power outage when I may actually have something recorded on the EHD. I hope every power outage doesn't trigger a requirement to reformat. Maybe MOXI just recognized that only half of the EHD was formatted.

phatty

08-01-07, 07:49 AM

Problem resolved. New question emerges- We had a power outage last night. When I clicked on external hard drive this morning, it told me I needed to format it. I did and voila! my used space was cut in half from when I went to bed. It is now clearly recognizing 1TB of space. Now I'm concerned about the next power outage when I may actually have something recorded on the EHD. I hope every power outage doesn't trigger a requirement to reformat. Maybe MOXI just recognized that only half of the EHD was formatted.

I had my 500gb drive wigg out like this as well where It appeared all my shows were deleted and when I went under the settings menu for the external hard drive it asked me if I wanted to format it. I said no and rebooted the moxi and it attatched fine after the reboot and all my programming came back.

My Moxi & Drive are attached to a UPS, and I haven't had any power flickers that I have noticed even if it was not connected to the UPS so I have no clue what caused my drive to disappear like that. Next time that occurs I suggest trying a reboot or two to see if it is able to get the external drive back without formatting.

-Phatty

CharterJames

08-01-07, 09:11 AM

how does VOD or PPV workd on an M-card device will the cable co have to support it? Or is it up to Degio?

I can answer the second part -
With M-Card there will be java based OCAP applications for guide info, vod etc - if the device supports the java app, then it should work. As I understand from a previous posting - the new Moxi won't support it at launch (not to say it won't ever, Digeo has shown they are pretty good at adapting the software platform)

As for PPV - if you call and order it or go in and order it in advance from the office - it should come up on any cable card device now and in the future. Ordering through the remote should become availible as the java based apps are tested and launched.

hotshot

08-01-07, 02:28 PM

Now I'm concerned about the next power outage when I may actually have something recorded on the EHD. I hope every power outage doesn't trigger a requirement to reformat. Maybe MOXI just recognized that only half of the EHD was formatted.

Why don't you take out the mystery and perform your own power outage? If you want to get really realistic turn off the breaker.

Saluki

08-01-07, 03:02 PM

CharterJames

08-01-07, 03:17 PM

Are there any issues using a signal amp on a Moxi feed?

I have Charter coming to check on a low power issue at my house & I am wondering if an amplified splitter is an option. I just added a 3rd TV line to go along with the internet & phone lines and am experiencing tiling on a few channels.

Amps increase the power level on the line - but just like with computers - garbage in - garbage out - so if you had a bad signal to noise ratio to begin with, you just amplified the noise rather than correct the problem.

Frequently, especially with moxi an amp can cause push the signal level TOO high causing tileilng and audio issues, especially on HD - however if your tiling is being caused by low signal, then the amp should help. While our amps should not affect modems, we do as a rule of thumb, try to avoid putting them behind the amplifier.

If your office / field techs are using similar policies to what is generally used here - your first line should be split on a 2 way splitter, with one leg feeding the house amp and one feeding the modem - that way your modem only takes a -2.5 DB hit on the signal and doesn't get any interfearance from the house amp. Chances are they used a regular 3 way on your amp - which would give you two outlets at -9.5 (2.5+7) and one at -6 (2.5+3.5) not counting what the amps putting back in. Ideally the moxi would sit on the -6, but frequently installers don't pay too much attention to moxi - they treat it like a regular box and forget there's a modem inside.

Phone MTA devices are SUPPOSED to be set up on a seperate drop so I didn't include it there.

Now ideally, if you have two drops I'd go with two balanced 3 way splitters (-5db on each leg) which would give you a little worse signal on your modem, but would ensure equal signal levels with the modem and moxi (I'd put them all on one drop) and your other 2 tv lines (plus room for one more) would have a better signal taking only a -5db drop. Or, if you don't want that extra line there - use a 2 way to give -2.5 on the second drop - in which case I'd put the modem and the phone on that line and put the video lines (including moxi) on the three way.

If you don't have two drops your probably better off using the amp - if your modem or MTA are behind the amp and you get problems with either one I'd put a balanced 3-way before the amp - one leg for the modem, one for the MTA and one for the AMP. If your moxi modem won't pull data (try vod and ticker to test) then I'd put it there and see if your modem will handle being behind the amp.

Generally modems today are made to put up with more signal variance and issues than modems 3 years old or more - I haven't really worked with MTAs, but they are effectively a cable modem with a digital telephony adapter built in. Moxi boxes do tend to get picky about signal, but much to their credit they frequently perform behind amps without issue.

You can usually check your Signal To Noise Ratio (SNR) in the internal diagnostics of most boxes (even the DCTs) and most modems will have some sort of diagnostics page at 192.168.1.1 - many might require a login which can be found on the page or on the manufacturer's website (for example ambit usually uses "user/user" for the login - Ideally you want an SNR that's greater than or equal to 32 - though I've seen a box (DCT2000) with a clear picture go as low as 18 (but I wouldn't want to go that low!!!! :eek: )

Again, using your splitter values you can generally figure out your signal level from any line at your house so long as you can get the information from at least one box or modem and know what splitters are in use.

slim79

08-01-07, 04:37 PM

Wondering if Digeo is aware of the issues with reporting of signal levels mainly transmit power of boxes with embedded cable modem hardware revision:

MC1 Embedded CM; HWREV: mc1-p2acemc000000070000000100000053

It varys but Ive literally seen 1 reporting +5 for a transmit which is imposible. Also the issue was present prior to 4.1 and did not appear to be resolved in the update.

Saluki

08-01-07, 04:45 PM

CharterJames

08-01-07, 05:00 PM

James-

I do not have a separate line coming in fo the phone. They just branched it off the main cable line coming in.

Here are my readings on the Moxi:

- Downstream power: - 17.0
- Downstream S/N: 30.3
- Upstream power: 61.0

Both power readings are out of spec based on Splinke's site.

Internet Cable Modem readings:

- Downstream power level: -1
- S/N: 34
- Upstream power level: 53

Thanks very much for input on this thread.

-17 downstream is way too low, 61 on the upstream is pretty bad too - sounds like too many splitters there...

If the modem is accurate in it's signal levels it's probably off of a 2 way on the direct line - which would put your base upstream signal level around 51.5 and your downstream at 1.5

(if I remember correctly the splitter value is added to the upstream and subtracted from the downstream)

That being said to get a difference of - 8 between the moxi and the modem could probably be optimized by a better arrangement of splitters

The fact that that difference is doubled on the downstream would lean more towards line issue or an already present amp messing something up rather than a splitter issue

I'd say if you have a tech coming out you'll probably get a complete re-arrangement of splitters and possibly an amp to boot. If not and you have time (and can access everything) I'll be happy to tell you how to optimize what you have if you can tell me what's there (splitter and line arrangement)

slim79

08-01-07, 05:11 PM

Transmit frequency is also a much lower frequency then Receive and thus they attenuate at different levels. For example through a 100ft drop of cable u may loose say approx. 6dB on your Receive Pwr/Forward signal while Transmit/Return may only lose aprrox. 1dB

So if u started at the tap at +12 Rx Pwr and 40 Tx Pwr through 100ft of cable u may have a +6Rx and +41Tx

Loss through a split is near enough the same forward and return.

Saluki

08-01-07, 05:13 PM

slim79

08-01-07, 05:19 PM

i would suggest using the 4 way first feeding phone, modem, and Moxi with final port feeding the 2 way to other 2 tvs(if i understand correctly) this would gain you approx. 3.5dB forward and return but even with that change i would consider the levels poor. and either u have lots of cable inside/bad cable, a bad or long drop, or insufficient levels at the tap outside.

also im curious what the levels at your cable modem are... you may be able to access this info by entering 192.168.100.1 in your web browser address bar(if it does ask for user/password try: user/user or root/root). This should take you to the modems diagnostic page which should tell you transmit and receive levels somewhere.

Houdini

08-01-07, 05:53 PM

Well, another moxi burned up on me. I came home today and my entire house smelled like burnt resistor! I still can't get the smell out. I had this one for over a year and always keep my place cold. The moxi was not in a cabinet but on top of my TV and nothing around it. I keep the vents in the back airdusted as well. The moxi still seems to work but it is constantly blowing that smell out of the back. I'd say it's on its way out. I called charter to let them know I needed a replacement and that I wanted a moxi and not one of the newer moto dvrs that I didn't like. The first guy said I would get whatever the tech has in their van. I asked to speak to a supervisor and waited on hold another 20 minutes. I told the supervisor the story and said that I didn't want the service at all unless they replace it with another moxi. The first thing the supervisor said was "Well we are trying to move away from the moxi and you are the first one I've heard that actually likes it". I told him that I had waited forever for the 4.1 update and for the most part I enjoy it now. I also told him I didn't like their newest moto dvr. They have their own share of problems/dislikes. He said they would make a note on the work order for the tech to bring a new moxi but we'll see how that goes. I might end up having to get the other dvr. After all this wait for 4.1 and now it burns up...lol. Maybe it is time to move away from the moxi.... I'm about to puke over this smell.

Well, I was right. A senior st. louis tech came by today and didn't have a moxi replacement for me. He wanted me to take one of the newer 6416s and I told him that I didn't want that. I asked him why they keep telling me they are moving away from the moxi and he asked if he should be brutally honest. I said sure and he said "they suck". He went on to say that he has seen too many burn ups and said because of the built in cable modems they are real sensitive to signal issues and produce constant video glitches and audio cutouts. My signals look fine to the moxi but I still get those glitches every now and then. He said that the general feeling of all the techs around the st. louis area is that they suck and they will be phasing them out. He said he has been working with them since they came out and has had nothing but problems. He also said they won't even do the moxi-mate anymore because of problems. According to him you can't even get moxi-mate anymore in the st. louis/ metro area.

He said he'll try to get me a new moxi tomorrow or friday and come install it. I have a feeling he won't get me one and I'll have to go with the damn iguide in the 6416 and all of the problems that box has. I just hate the look and feel of the 6416. It looks so old.

thilt

08-01-07, 10:12 PM

Why don't you take out the mystery and perform your own power outage? If you want to get really realistic turn off the breaker.
Good advice. Shut power off this afternoon for five minutes. Everything came back up fine including EHD with no request to format.

PWSHER

08-01-07, 10:19 PM

Well, I was right. A senior st. louis tech came by today and didn't have a moxi replacement for me. He wanted me to take one of the newer 6416s and I told him that I didn't want that. I asked him why they keep telling me they are moving away from the moxi and he asked if he should be brutally honest. I said sure and he said "they suck". He went on to say that he has seen too many burn ups and said because of the built in cable modems they are real sensitive to signal issues and produce constant video glitches and audio cutouts. My signals look fine to the moxi but I still get those glitches every now and then. He said that the general feeling of all the techs around the st. louis area is that they suck and they will be phasing them out. He said he has been working with them since they came out and has had nothing but problems. He also said they won't even do the moxi-mate anymore because of problems. According to him you can't even get moxi-mate anymore in the st. louis/ metro area.

He said he'll try to get me a new moxi tomorrow or friday and come install it. I have a feeling he won't get me one and I'll have to go with the damn iguide in the 6416 and all of the problems that box has. I just hate the look and feel of the 6416. It looks so old.

Like I said previously, they replaced my Moxi-Mate last month and I live in the St. Louis area. So it looks like he doesn't exactly know of what he speaks. It was refurbished but it works great! OTOH, To me it looks like they are indeed trying to phase out the MOxi and Moxi-Mate for the easier (i.e. read cheaper) to configure 6416. For folks who have never had better they won't know what they are missing. That's why Diego will soon be selling Moxi's door to door! :D

kelliot

08-01-07, 11:23 PM

Side bet?

In what time frame? I don't make open ended bets. Unless maybe the bet is concerning hell freezing over as opposed to TWC and Moxi.

xNightfallx

08-02-07, 12:10 AM

So nobody has any updates on low audio? I've tried everything mentioned in the last few pages, and nothing. I know it's a problem with Moxi, because the sound effects are loud, but the sound from the things I watch is always VERY low.

CharterJames

08-02-07, 08:01 AM

Here's my current set-up:

- 1 main line coming into the house going to a 2-way splitter - 1 leg going to the internet cable modem & the other leg to a 4-way spliitter (it says 3.5 db per each port).

- The 4-way splitter feeds the phone & 3 TV's (1 TV is on a Moxi). It says 7 db per each port.

- There are no amps in place

- Both splitters are you basic Charter-issue Regal brand.

Yep, that's a standard setup, though usually when the customer has 3 or more video lines and data they add an amp (that used to be the "by the book" method here in Hickory when I was doing modem support, I know cause I wrote the installer "book" at the time *L*)

Given the moxi can be off by 5 to 10 db, a field tech might have to verify your signal levels - but relying on your modem (which tends to be more accurate on signal levels) we can pretty much assume that your signal levels before the first splitter are going to be somewhere around the following

Downstream 1.5
Upstream 50.5

Slim79's suggestion of reversing the splitters would give you -8.5 down and +50.5 up on the first splitter (where you'd put your moxi, modem and telephone) and using the last leg for the 2 way you'd get -11 down and +53 up

-8.5 is doable for modems, your telephone is already working on worse than that - so it would improve your moxi by 2.5 but keep the same level of signal on your other video lines - if you're ok with that - give it a shot. If your other lines are tiling as well (and at those signal levels I wouldn't be surpised if you had VOD issues) then you may want to go a different route.

Slim79's notes on attenuation are spot-on - the longer the drop the more the signal loss (though until today I did not realize that loss was different on the forward and return!) Generally Charter is supposed to use RG6 for drops under 300 feet and RG11 (less signal loss) for longer drops. Shorter drops can benifit from RG11 but generally unless you're good friends with the person doing the drop or you have major signal issues, your not going to get RG11 unless you cross whatever distance "threshold" is set by your office's technicial department.

If you've got wire maintenance with Charter (which should cover the cost of reworking the old drop and an additional drop) I'd request that the first drop be re-run with RG11 and a second drop be added with RG11 and then split each RG11 drop with Balanced 3 way splitters (which give a -5db loss per leg)

If you don't have wire maintenance, it will be an uphill battle as you'll pretty much have to convince the tech that you need to have the lines reworked unless he can get a better signal at the house (before the first signal) - your current levels aren't too bad, but with the number of splits you're doing it needs to be better.

Given your SNR - chances are you can amplify without too much garbage if you want to spare yourself the rework - just keep an eye on your phone, modem and moxi and if any of them seem to get worse, chances are you'll need to split one ore more of them off before the amp.

Techs are pushed to do more and more in less and less time - so chances are a tech will check your levels at the tap and the house, check your connections and either amplify or replace any bad wire he finds - probably stick an amp in - but if possible try to be there when the tech is there, if you bring up the ideas here to him - I know there's a major priority on phone - so chances are you should qualify for a second drop without charge - even if you don't have wire maintenance.

Houdini

08-02-07, 08:10 AM

Like I said previously, they replaced my Moxi-Mate last month and I live in the St. Louis area. So it looks like he doesn't exactly know of what he speaks. It was refurbished but it works great! OTOH, To me it looks like they are indeed trying to phase out the MOxi and Moxi-Mate for the easier (i.e. read cheaper) to configure 6416. For folks who have never had better they won't know what they are missing. That's why Diego will soon be selling Moxi's door to door! :D

Yeah I should have been more clear. Replacements are different than getting a new moxi or mate. According to him, you can only get one through a replacement (that is how I am getting mine). I didn't have a moxi mate before so they won't give me one now. You had one before so they will replace it for you. I agree it is cheaper and quicker for them to set up 6416s but I think the real reason is because of the cost savings that comes from less return visits to the same house for problems. The tech mentioned that they go to the same moxi houses over and over because of various signal/modem/heat problems. It is costing them a lot of money. I know they have been to my house about 10 times over the last 1.5 years. That's ridiculous.

Having said all that and ignoring the tech's statements about how the moxis suck, I still wanted a replacement because of the 4.1 update. For the most part, Charter got my signal issues under control so the moxi seemed to be doing pretty well until the burn up. I hope my replacement lasts another year. :)

PWSHER

08-02-07, 08:27 AM

Yeah I should have been more clear. Replacements are different than getting a new moxi or mate. According to him, you can only get one through a replacement (that is how I am getting mine). I didn't have a moxi mate before so they won't give me one now. You had one before so they will replace it for you. I agree it is cheaper and quicker for them to set up 6416s but I think the real reason is because of the cost savings that comes from less return visits to the same house for problems. The tech mentioned that they go to the same moxi houses over and over because of various signal/modem/heat problems. It is costing them a lot of money. I know they have been to my house about 10 times over the last 1.5 years. That's ridiculous.

Having said all that and ignoring the tech's statements about how the moxis suck, I still wanted a replacement because of the 4.1 update. For the most part, Charter got my signal issues under control so the moxi seemed to be doing pretty well until the burn up. I hope my replacement lasts another year. :)

Exactly. Looks like we have been through about the same pain to finally get the signal problems solved and now the hardware is dying!

I'm really hoping that the retail Moxi's are affordable. If they go for the high end only I'm afraid they will die a slow painful demise. I'm sure (at least I hope so) they have done their homework and know what the average consumer will pay. I hope to go see the retail Moxi this month since they were planning on coming to the STL area.

As far as I'm concerned I could care less about the games, photos, Jukebox, etc those are all done better on my Mac and my game machine. Just give us a "reliable" HD DVR with the moxi interface! Period. Oh yeah, I still want my Charter VOD!

CharterJames

08-02-07, 08:42 AM

Moxi boxes do give us more calls - largely because the unforgiving nature of the box in it's signal levels - at one point, until I had a tech re-work my office line here I had a choice of HD or VOD... if I connected my box in directly I had VOD, but my HDs were horrible - if I put a -10 db attenuator behind the line (affectively dropping by 10) I had picture perfect HD... but no VOD.

I have some of our better engineers scratching their heads over that one...

the 6416 doesn't use the built in modem (though it does have one built in) and it works on the same signal levels in the same fashion as our other boxes.

I'll agree with everyone here that the A24 TV Guide (I-guide) is clunky and dated. I loved the look of the moxi guide, but hated the speed and the lower grade of analog tuner. 4.1 removed one of my major hates (guide speed)

I will say the new DCH 6416 is easy on the eyes, unfortunatley it's still tied to A24 (I-guide) and there's no updates on external expansion yet. I'll also say that ESPECIALLY after 4.1 I miss the skip forward (30 second skips - heck yeah!) and I miss how moxi has that adjustment that seems to hone in on exactly where you ment to stop FF or Rew.

Another new feature on the DCH 6416 I've learned about (but again don't expect to see soon) is support for MOCA - this is a networking feature over the coax, much like the moxi/moxi mate. One of the main ideas is that once we get the new DCH100/200s (replacing the old DCT 2000/25000s) is that they'll be able to talk to the DCH6416 and share DVR content. Again, the capiblity is built into the platform - it's just a question of if it will be allowed to see the light of day. (kinda like USB/eSATA expansion)

I think alot of the issue with Charter and Moxi is tightly wound up around the FCC mandate for OCAP support, but again this is speculation from someone inside Charter Techops, I know we were told that Motorola couldn't keep up with our demand for DVR boxes on the BMC90xx series (yet ironically they could with the DCT/DCH 64xx series)

On the sound issue with BMC90xx
I have talked with the Digeo NOC they acknowledged that the sound levels did go down in 4.1 and it has been listed as a "bug" in this software version. I was told it probably would not get addressed until next software version which may be as long as a year. I've also been told that by my counterparts in other markets in my region that this has been taken up with our engineers and we are pushing for some sort of update to fix this ASAP.

I don't expect this to get confirmed by Moxiguy or Mate, as I'm sure they are limited in what they can say when it comes to software revisions and updates and I don't mean to step on their toes or put them on the spot - all I'm saying is it is a KNOWN issue.

I have had a few people get a little better sound by updating their sound settings - but most of us here @ AVS are savvy enough to already be there ;)

PWSHER

08-02-07, 09:02 AM

On the sound issue with BMC90xx
I have talked with the Digeo NOC they acknowledged that the sound levels did go down in 4.1 and it has been listed as a "bug" in this software version. I was told it probably would not get addressed until next software version which may be as long as a year. I've also been told that by my counterparts in other markets in my region that this has been taken up with our engineers and we are pushing for some sort of update to fix this ASAP.

I don't expect this to get confirmed by Moxiguy or Mate, as I'm sure they are limited in what they can say when it comes to software revisions and updates and I don't mean to step on their toes or put them on the spot - all I'm saying is it is a KNOWN issue.

I have had a few people get a little better sound by updating their sound settings - but most of us here @ AVS are savvy enough to already be there ;)

I am just curious why I don't have sound issues? Not complaining mind you but just curious. Is it because I route my sound through a 5.1 Dolby receiver? Would that help others?
Wayne

CharterJames

08-02-07, 09:07 AM

I am just curious why I don't have sound issues? Not complaining mind you but just curious. Is it because I route my sound through a 5.1 Dolby receiver? Would that help others?
Wayne

Pretty Much - most people who are using Dolby setting and either Optical or Coaxial /SPDIF don't have as much of an issue - but people on the RCA will notice it, especially if they are only using TV speakers and not an amplified home theater

Rampage522

08-02-07, 10:49 AM

Well, I was right. A senior st. louis tech came by today and didn't have a moxi replacement for me. He wanted me to take one of the newer 6416s and I told him that I didn't want that. I asked him why they keep telling me they are moving away from the moxi and he asked if he should be brutally honest. I said sure and he said "they suck". He went on to say that he has seen too many burn ups and said because of the built in cable modems they are real sensitive to signal issues and produce constant video glitches and audio cutouts. My signals look fine to the moxi but I still get those glitches every now and then. He said that the general feeling of all the techs around the st. louis area is that they suck and they will be phasing them out. He said he has been working with them since they came out and has had nothing but problems. He also said they won't even do the moxi-mate anymore because of problems. According to him you can't even get moxi-mate anymore in the st. louis/ metro area.

He said he'll try to get me a new moxi tomorrow or friday and come install it. I have a feeling he won't get me one and I'll have to go with the damn iguide in the 6416 and all of the problems that box has. I just hate the look and feel of the 6416. It looks so old.I always count myself extremely lucky when I read comments like this. I've had the same Moxi unit for nearly 2 years I guess and never really had the chronic signal issues that seem to give it such fits. A lot of that can probably be attributed to the fact that all new lines were run when I moved in about 3 years ago. With that in mind, I'm not sure it's the Moxis that "suck," unless requiring really tight signal specs means it sucks.

Definitely looking forward to the retail offering. I hope it's more forgiving on the signals and doesn't require special permissions from my household Director of Finance. :)

CharterJames

08-02-07, 12:36 PM

With that in mind, I'm not sure it's the Moxis that "suck," unless requiring really tight signal specs means it sucks.

Most people who would take the view mentioned by that one Charter Tech would do so largely because of the picture quality. While (believe it or not) some people prefer the grid based guide (which moxi was smart to speed up theirs and offer easier access to the upcoming "grid" of programming) alot of people in the industry feel the BMC90xx series was handicapped with a bad analog tuner.

I had no issue with my picture and happily lived with the noise and heat levels of my 9012 @ home until I got a LCD TV - watching the same programming on the same line (and even programming I had recorded and watched earlier on my old 27in tube) I simply could not stand the lower picture quality - and I had ideal signal conditions.

Tight signal specs DO suck... especially when you can only put the main line with so much power and a customer wants to do 6 to 10 splits and they have a house that's 300 feet or more from the tap. - Largely it seems the modem built into the BMC is the culprit (people losing data and having issues with getting into VOD) but often it can be the video as well.

I'll take the moxi guide over the iguide any day... but until I get a moxi that can deliver the picture and audio quality of my DCH6416 - I'm not going back. Especially if I've got to give up VOD. I enjoy the one I have in the office, I even envy some of the 4.1 features (expansion and selectable skip times) - but I won't use one or even recommend one to anyone who has or is getting a big screen LCD or Plasma, not without warning them about the picture quality. At the same time when a tech calls me from a customer's house with a moxi issue he can't resolve I usually let him know that he needs to be aware of the customer's preferences BEFORE he swaps out that moxi.

the BMC90xx has it's limitations, for those who don't want to live with them it's not the choice product. Every product has it's limitations, many of us could start a 100 flaming threads on which make and model of car is better than any other - but in the end it's all a matter of user preferences and opinion.

riddlerclak

08-02-07, 12:47 PM

CharterJames

08-02-07, 01:13 PM

Yeah I am torn on going back to MOXI

Better guide and DVR.
A few less digitial artifacts (although the 6416 is not as bad as when I first connected it).
Transition between HD and SD was quicker.

DCH6416

Through HDMI
Analog looks alot better
Audio is at least twice as good as moxi box
Transition from SD to HD is quite slow. However unlike the moxi going from one HD channel to the next HD channel is very smooth.. Moxi could be quite rough between HD channels...
Appears the 6416 stays on 720p for every hd station.

So the charter tech is coming today to fix the second moxi box to break that is upstairs.

Not sure if I should ask him to give me my Moxi back or let the 6416 grow on me.....

any thoughts???

Have you tried changing your Hd resolution on the 6416?
You can do this by turning it off and hitting the menu button

The Component outputs are also pretty sweet on the picture - I barely noticed the difference between Component Hd and HDMI (but I love using the HDMI so I get digital audio to my TV and my Home theater via Optical - next upgrade - HDMI switching HT Receiver *L*)

In all honest truth, if your upstairs is a SD tv, I'd enjoy the best of both worlds - 6416 for home theater / HD and Moxi for SD.

I've already heard people refering to the 6416 as the "HD" dvr even though the moxi has always supported HD... just because most people with HD prefer it.

riddlerclak

08-02-07, 01:27 PM

CharterJames

08-02-07, 01:54 PM

Yeah the landlords got the 36inch CRT upstairs....

I got my 42inch plasma that is less than a week old downstairs...
Plannin to watch lots of football and movies for the wife.....

Your thinkin the MOXI box has a better HD picture??

Will analog look better through component using the 6416??
Not that I dont like it through HDMI....

I am very famillar with moxi but if I am going to get an allaround better pic and audio with the 6416 than I will stick with that.... ur opinion??

There is a nice long delay going from SD to HD and vise versa can changing the resolution settings speed it up??

I lean towards the 6416 in picture quality all 'round - while the moxi supports HD resolutions, it really does not look good unless your on a CRT. I have a friend with a new high end 36 Hd tube and the moxi is great on there, but at the same time I've yet to see a really good picture on a LCD/Plasma using a moxi at any resolution, especially on the SD.

riddlerclak

08-02-07, 02:11 PM

Last question for ya... Its more of a paranoid question than anything else.
I know the following is normal.

Watching my plasma screen switch between SD to HD always seems a bit tramatic...
Change the channel to HD or vise versa

Screen goes black a short image of the next channel shows up than about two seconds of black pause before displaying the channel with differnt resolution....MOXI has its own variation of this...

I have never read anywhere on the net how a cable box ruined somones plasma.. So I am worried for no reason right?? you can just yes.....

thanks for your opinions as the charter guy will show up in the next two hours....

CharterJames

08-02-07, 02:24 PM

I know if a constant image remains on the screen (like the banner / channel bar) it can cause burn in - but that's more long term and one of the reasons I-guide put in the screensaver - but from what I'm seeing you'd have to be constantly on the same screen (have that bar up all the time or be on something with with a crawl like CNN..)

riddlerclak

08-02-07, 02:30 PM

Seems with the 6416 on SD I get alot more flashes of digital artifiacts.
Virtuall none on HD..

Could it be a result of the HDMI cable??

splinke

08-02-07, 02:37 PM

...Watching my plasma screen switch between SD to HD always seems a bit tramatic...
Change the channel to HD or vise versa...
riddlerclak, I think your concern about damage to your TV is the craziness that goes on during a resolution change, right? I would doubt that it has any bad effect on the TV, as it is designed to switch resolutions. And even if there was, I wouldn't think there should be any difference between tuners (Moxi vs. 6416). They would both be forcing your TV to change resolutions. On a related note, on the Moxi you can select just one HD resolution under HDTV Setup. In that case, the resolution changes would never occur. The Moxi would only output that one resolution. However, your SD picture quality likely wouldn't look as good.

riddlerclak

08-02-07, 03:09 PM

Well I answered my own question... Digital artifacts on hd through the 6416 are the same through component. The great audio using the HDMI is gone. Just have red and white cables plugged in.. Need to find out if I can get higher quality digital input for the audio.......

Transition between hd and sd through component on the 6416 is the smoothest I have seen anywhere. Twice as fast as the HDMI connection.... interesting observation...

Digital artifacts are not out of control. However I never saw them on the MOXI....

slim79

08-02-07, 03:24 PM

slim79

08-02-07, 03:36 PM

Transition between hd and sd through component on the 6416 is the smoothest I have seen anywhere. Twice as fast as the HDMI connection.... interesting observation...

.

This box does not change resolutions it has a set output(has to be manually changed) as far as i know... at least on component anyway

do you know what resolution the 6416 is outputing?

riddlerclak

08-02-07, 03:44 PM

siuengr

08-02-07, 04:02 PM

I just wanted to say that I use a optical cable for my audio from the Moxi and noticed a big volume drop after 4.1. I have to be sure to turn the volume way down before I switch to any other input for fear of damaging my speakers. I hope they push for a bug fix in less than a year.

With the SlingBox issue, I do not have a SlingBox, but I noticed that the Moxi was not responding to my Harmony remote as well as it did before 4.1. I often have to hit a button 2 or 3 times to get it to respond. I have tried adjusting the timing and number of repeats in the Harmony software, but it hasn't seemed to help. Does anyone out there have a Harmony and found settings that work well after the 4.1 update?

slim79

08-02-07, 04:02 PM

No doubt it changes....

I just went from discoveryhd to foxnews

resolution on the front of the DCH6416 went from 720 to 480i and it switched twice as fast the HDMI connection... In the past when I switched from one connection to the other it would take forever for the HDMI to get a signal to the tv... But the Component is nice and crisp... I just need to get the audio level improved.

my bad... yes it does have a set resolution for SD seperate than that of HD though u wont see it change when switching from a 720p native stream to 1080i i dont beleive becuase u have to choose one or the other advanced menu(power off box then hit Menu)

i imagine it has to do with the handshake between devices when using HDMI with HDCP

riddlerclak

08-02-07, 04:18 PM

slim79

08-02-07, 04:23 PM

Yeah I can think of no other reason.
However what does HDCP mean??

Wife wants me to go back to MOXI and I think I will stay with this 6416.....
there are the digital artifacts but few and far between and only on SD

If I buy component cables with digital audio rca connector that might give me better audio??

From webopedia.com:
Short for high-bandwidth digital-content protection, a specification developed by Intel for protecting digital entertainment content that uses the DVI interface. HDCP encrypts the transmission of digital content between the video source, or transmitter -- such as a computer, DVD player or set-top box -- and the digital display, or receiver -- such as a monitor, television or projector. HDCP is not designed to prevent copying or recording of digital content but to protect the integrity of content as it is being transmitted.

Digital out to a receiver either coax digital that u refer to or optical should definitely be better i would think

Houdini

08-02-07, 04:43 PM

A couple of you have mentioned the analog tuner/ sd quality of the moxi as being a problem. My sd picture looks great with the moxi here in the st. louis area(charter). You guys still getting analog signals for 2-99 in your area? I think in my area they put digital and analog through at the same time for 2-99. I remember it was terrible before with the moxi..almost unwatchable. I have no issues with SD now.

riddlerclak

08-02-07, 04:48 PM

That makes sense. 42inch panny of which I have been way overly worried about scales everything down to 720 or 768 to fill its pixels..... Not sure if I should set the box to output 1080I and let the tv process it that way.... I think it looks great with 720p

and to stay on topic
To all you moxi people with burned out Moxies.. My landlord/mother... Will be recieving her second replacement in the last two weeks....
I hope moxi has like a $300 unit like tivo has.... I would consider purchasing a moxi box with upgraded hardware.......

riddlerclak

08-02-07, 05:42 PM

To Confirm........
I asked charter tec " You Phasing Out Moxi "
He said no there phased......

To many issues I guess.......
The 6416 is the wave of the future I suppose....

petefoss

08-02-07, 06:18 PM

Last question for ya... Its more of a paranoid question than anything else.
I know the following is normal.

Watching my plasma screen switch between SD to HD always seems a bit tramatic...
Change the channel to HD or vise versa

Screen goes black a short image of the next channel shows up than about two seconds of black pause before displaying the channel with differnt resolution....MOXI has its own variation of this...

That's why I let the Moxi upconvert the SD to 1080i rather than the TV. On my TV (65" MITS rear projection), I don't see a difference in the SD picture either way.

riddlerclak

08-02-07, 07:01 PM

This will most likely be my last post; in this thread topic....

The tec showed up without a moxi box so he went back to get one and showed back up with the moto 6416.... So it looks like we got two of these boxes in the house. I think the guide dvr will grow on me and I will navigate as good as the moxi I had........

Lets hope the future moxi boxes have better life spans than the ones that were doled out to all the charter customers.

I wish all you remaining moxi people happy tv watcin...... now on to a differnt hobby......

Adelmoxi

08-02-07, 11:36 PM

Lets hope the future moxi boxes have better life spans than the ones that were doled out to all the charter customers......

for a $800+ price tag plus a monthly service fee it better be

virtualdude

08-03-07, 02:10 PM

one issue i think is important- i posted this in the moxi forums. but just wanted to toss it around here:

the HD and SD no record boxes we had prior to Moxi had a "tune" or "remind" feature. Basically you could set a reminder way down the road...be reminded and asked to either watch or cancel.

With moxi- and i am not sure about non-moxi DVR's...you can not tune only or remind. You *HAVE* to record. so if i want to not forget about a movie say in a week or a show later that day- i have to make MOXI *RECORD*. wasting my HD space. i mean the show might not be that important to record...just want to watch it.

I suppose the alternative would be to set moxi to record- then delete aftward. But seems like tune/watch only is a brighter idea. less menu stuff, less scrambling through the HD to make space etc.

i would think that moxi could tune only and not be made to record only in the software.

seems sensible any way.

MoxiGuy

08-03-07, 03:02 PM

I have talked with the Digeo NOC they acknowledged that the sound levels did go down in 4.1 ... I was told it probably would not get addressed until next software version which may be as long as a year...
I don't expect this to get confirmed by Moxiguy or Mate, as I'm sure they are limited in what they can say when it comes to software revisions and updates and I don't mean to step on their toes or put them on the spot - all I'm saying is it is a KNOWN issue. Addressing the sound levels in 4.1 is a high-priority for the Moxi team. I don't have a date for a fix, but there's no plan to hold off for the next major update. The revised version will be distributed as soon as it can be completed, tested, and reviewed with the engineering teams at the cable operators.

Rampage522

08-03-07, 04:42 PM

Addressing the sound levels in 4.1 is a high-priority for the Moxi team. I don't have a date for a fix, but there's no plan to hold off for the next major update. The revised version will be distributed as soon as it can be completed, tested, and reviewed with the engineering teams at the cable operators.Thank you!!!

Please keep us posted when you hear this is rolling out to the public.

todbnla

08-03-07, 06:36 PM

CharterJames: Update on signal issues; After waiting two weeks, a tech comes out and says "your signal is good (+35db) but your moxi is shot and you need an updated one.. But I don't have one with me today, I am already out on my truck (!!) but some will call you to set up (yet) another appointment (!) to install a new one" :( That was Friday a week ago, the next Wednesday after no one calls to schedule, my wife goes into the office with the bad box and they tell her someone is coming out the day after tomorrow (today) with your new box. He comes out today and installs a Motorola model DCH-6416 (is this POS even a moxi??), leaves and I get home to find that he did not set up the new remote with my TV so it won't control it AND I STILL have lock up issues on HD!
WTF, I got to say, this may be the end for me and charter, I wish we had good people like you James down here, I hate to leave after all these years but I am paying good money to get my blood pressure up for nothing....my only fear is DirecTV will not be any better customer service wise :(

Polekat

08-03-07, 11:42 PM

Some issues I am having with my DCH6416.
1) I set up series recordings to record only new episodes, but get repeats anyways.
2) I set up to keep only a certain # of episodes (ie, I record Seinfeld but keep only 1 ep) except it keeps multiple episodes no matte what the setting is.

todbnla

08-04-07, 09:04 AM

So is the MOXI going away replaced by the DCH6416??:o

Rampage522

08-04-07, 09:09 AM

Houdini

08-04-07, 12:12 PM

correct

todbnla

08-04-07, 01:23 PM

The charter tech i just spoke to said they were phasing out moxis due to so many issues? But this has the same issues...pixelation on hd channels....wtf???? ( I have a +35bd snr)

Rampage522

08-04-07, 04:16 PM

The Moxi doesn't inherently lend itself to pixelation. Pixelation is going to be caused by a signal problem to your house or neighborhood, most likely.

The "issues" leading to the "phase out" are things like overheating, noise, and (my guess is) the fact that each one *requires* a tech visit to install leading to higher costs for Charter. And as has been mentioned here a few times, the phase out does not mean they're going door to door and forcibly replacing working Moxi units.

When I had pixelation issues on HD channels, it was due to an area-wide equipment issue that had nothing to do with the Moxi. And it hasn't been a problem since (2 years on the same Moxi unit).

Many of the techs and reps turn their noses up at the Moxi and want to get you something else that is easier for them to support. I understand that, but we took what they gave us at the time and we can't be blamed if we prefer the interface and features of their "superior" replacement.

So get them to fix the real issue - bad signal, not bad Moxi!

Jeff Rybak

08-04-07, 11:47 PM

If we have a moxi that is having bad audio cutout problems is there anyway to keep the shows we have saved on the unit? We are considering swapping the Moxi out for a new unit.

The second quesiton I have is there a way to download the shows we have on the Moxi to a PC or external harddrive. I would like to take a few shows and convert them over to watch them on my PSP while I travel.

Thanks for your time. Jeff

petefoss

08-05-07, 07:41 AM

Jeff Rybak

08-05-07, 07:02 PM

Pete,
Thanks - that's what I thought.

slim79

08-05-07, 09:20 PM

The Moxi doesn't inherently lend itself to pixelation. Pixelation is going to be caused by a signal problem to your house or neighborhood, most likely.

There actually have been specific issues identified with moxi related to tiling/pixelation and difference in quality of signal between the tuners. Usually it was happening when signal levels were higher than average but not excesively high and lowering signal level could resolve the issue in many cases. However I would agree that many other issues may have been blamed on moxi that were related to outside issues.

MoxiGuy

08-06-07, 01:02 PM

Many of the techs and reps turn their noses up at the Moxi and want to get you something else that is easier for them to support. I think there is something to this. The DCT line of Moto boxes, from the latest DVR models stretching back to the early digital set-tops before DVRs, require the same installation steps. The techs are very familiar and comfortable with that. Installing Moxi takes some extra steps—it's like installing a DCT plus a cable modem.

On the larger issue raised about whether Charter is moving away from Moxi, it's more a question of Charter running out of Moxi boxes. For the most part, Charter has no Moxi boxes available right now.

We're in the middle of a transition. The current boxes are not being manufactured any more--they don't comply with the new FCC requirement for separating security (short-hand: CableCARD). A new CableCARD model of Moxi has been announced, but it's not in the pipeline yet.

MadCityBrad

08-06-07, 02:26 PM

Are these new Moxi's, that are "in the pipeline", going to be available to Charter or are they retail boxes?

MoxiGuy

08-06-07, 02:29 PM

Are these new Moxi's, that are "in the pipeline", going to be available to Charter or are they retail boxes? Both. There are three models, two are retail (Multi-room and Home Cinema), and a third that's intended for cable operators to offer to their own customers in the same way as current Moxi and other cable DVRs.

mhetterm

08-06-07, 05:21 PM

Still no update on the slingbox problems ... MoxiGuy, can you find anything out for us?

todbnla

08-06-07, 06:18 PM

So get them to fix the real issue - bad signal, not bad Moxi!
Ok, heres the story direct from charters sub contractors; on some channels I have too good of a signal, but when it goes to the higher signals it drops off to the opposite end of the spectrum, what was a +15db signal on lower channels turns into a -5db on high channels causing the issue on HD channels it seems. Apparently Charter IS aware of this issue in our area (due to KATRINA) since ALL of the lines and amplifiers were replaced directly after the storm BUT were never "leveled out" whatever that means? They also have subs in town "sweeping the lines" preparing for the phone service rollout. So after at least 3 charter techs and 2 "mad dawg" (name on orange shirts) techs here for the better part of an entire day, I still have issues and once again another repair order to "level out" the amplifiers in my area when ever that happens...does it ever end? :confused: So, in hind sight, my moxi maybe was not bad....but charter is the one that claimed it was, so now I have no moxi and the replacement will not take my 500gb ext hd :rolleyes:
the tech is still on the poll even has I type this getting more readings... :o

MoxiMessenger

08-06-07, 09:00 PM

Thanks for looking into this problem. I have Slingbox software version 1.4.0.206, and it is more like clicking 4 or more times to make a single command work. Because the Slingbox video is delayed by several seconds, depending on the Slingbox settings, one never knows which command took until it may be too late to be effective...like putting in the 3 digit channel number, or stopping a fast forward or rewind near to where you would like to stop.

If the retail version of Moxi already has Internet-abled programming, then I would think there is the potential for Moxi to eventually replace the need for a Slingbox. You just need to add Internet-abled and home network-abled ability to watch the Moxi video.
DJK1940 - sorry for the delay on getting back to you on Sling & Moxi compatibility - I was traveling for most of the end of July. While I was out, teams back at the ranch were working on testing Sling internally to figure out what happened/changed to cause this.

The short answer is, with the version we are using, it works, just a bit slow. Looking at your version number, that may be part of the issue - you have a more recent version than what we test with so not sure if perhaps changes on both sides may have created the issue you are experiencing.

We have flagged this as an issue/bug for our development team and have open communications with Sling regarding compatibility, but in the short term I'm afraid I don't have a lot of good news to share. Sling compatibility isn't *technically* a supported feature at this juncture, though both companies have shared tips periodically about how to get the two products to work together.

We definitely think Sling & Moxi make a great combo, and would like to see a more formal support relationship in the future. For now, our dev team are super focused on working to get our new products out the door and support existing features, but looking into this is definitely in the hopper, but probably won't lead to an instant fix that we'd all like to see :-)

Wished I had better news to share in the short term, but I'm optimistic about a better long term answer.

mhetterm

08-06-07, 11:09 PM

Thanks for the update MoxiMessenger - I'm going to post at slingcommunity.com and see if someone from sling will respond. Seems easier for them to get a fix out, if possible, since at the moment we are all still at the whim of Charter/TW/whomever for moxi updates ...

djk1940

08-07-07, 10:21 PM

DJK1940 - sorry for the delay on getting back to you on Sling & Moxi compatibility - I was traveling for most of the end of July. While I was out, teams back at the ranch were working on testing Sling internally to figure out what happened/changed to cause this.

The short answer is, with the version we are using, it works, just a bit slow. Looking at your version number, that may be part of the issue - you have a more recent version than what we test with so not sure if perhaps changes on both sides may have created the issue you are experiencing.

We have flagged this as an issue/bug for our development team and have open communications with Sling regarding compatibility, but in the short term I'm afraid I don't have a lot of good news to share. Sling compatibility isn't *technically* a supported feature at this juncture, though both companies have shared tips periodically about how to get the two products to work together.

We definitely think Sling & Moxi make a great combo, and would like to see a more formal support relationship in the future. For now, our dev team are super focused on working to get our new products out the door and support existing features, but looking into this is definitely in the hopper, but probably won't lead to an instant fix that we'd all like to see :-)

Wished I had better news to share in the short term, but I'm optimistic about a better long term answer.
Also, thanks for the update. I have found a work-around that works even through walls, but only if you are within about 50 ft of the Moxi box: A combination of a Next Generation remote control extender, sold here (http://www.amazon.com/Next-Generation-Remote-Control-Extender/dp/B000C1Z0HA), and purchasing an extra Moxi remote, which sells on eBay for only $10. The two work beautifully together.

I would guess that it is now up to Slingbox to again upgrade their software to include the new Moxi configuration. Moxi and Slingbox do work well together, even when viewing High Definition TV. I am looking forward to their Slingcatcher this fall, which could compete with the Moxi Mate, except there is currenlty a 10 second delay for the remote to react on the Slingbox that could become annoying on a primary TV. So hurry with your commercial Moxi.

CharterJames

08-08-07, 09:01 AM

Ok, heres the story direct from charters sub contractors; on some channels I have too good of a signal, but when it goes to the higher signals it drops off to the opposite end of the spectrum, what was a +15db signal on lower channels turns into a -5db on high channels causing the issue on HD channels it seems. Apparently Charter IS aware of this issue in our area (due to KATRINA) since ALL of the lines and amplifiers were replaced directly after the storm BUT were never "leveled out" whatever that means? They also have subs in town "sweeping the lines" preparing for the phone service rollout. So after at least 3 charter techs and 2 "mad dawg" (name on orange shirts) techs here for the better part of an entire day, I still have issues and once again another repair order to "level out" the amplifiers in my area when ever that happens...does it ever end? :confused: So, in hind sight, my moxi maybe was not bad....but charter is the one that claimed it was, so now I have no moxi and the replacement will not take my 500gb ext hd :rolleyes:
the tech is still on the poll even has I type this getting more readings... :o

Frequently node level equipment comes "screaming hot" - maxed out for pushing signal - this is generally good if you need that much power, however depending on how many people are out there and how much plant there is - it may be way too much signal power - so what they have to do is put attenuators & pads on the line (I probably mispelled that, so please forgive me) Normally this wouldn't be a problem, but usually that's because you're only swapping out one node at a time - in their push to get everything up ASAP they didn't clean up the signal so now they are effectively rebuilding the engine while trying to drive down the interstate...

Again as to the Moxi / Charter issues - It was pretty much a limit on inventory - FCC mandates changed what was usable for new boxes and Motorola wasn't crankin' out enough BMCs for us at the same time. Given we have the Moxi infrastructure in place - the good news is with the OpenCable initiative is once the card based moxi's come out, you can get one at any cable company reguardless of if they support it by purchasing you own.

As for signal issues - The moxi tuner seems to be less tolerant of signal issues, and on top of that you have the cable modem - which can also be problematic.

Most techs love to blame the equipment, even some of the good ones, because they have their list of specs and if the box doesn't work in that range then it must be the box. Yes it is easier to support the 6416, yes the techs do prefer the 6416 not only for picture quality but because they don't have to worry about creating a signal sweet spot for the modem on the moxi box (especially if you have multiple)

Fortunately in this market we've got alot of moxi churn, so (with luck) people in my market that prefer moxi can get a moxi.

I'll do my best to keep them going here till the day the last BMC draws it's last breath. I'd like to think the other Charter markets will try to do the same.

CharterJames

08-08-07, 09:16 AM

Also, thanks for the update. I have found a work-around that works even through walls, but only if you are within about 50 ft of the Moxi box: A combination of a Next Generation remote control extender, sold here (http://www.amazon.com/Next-Generation-Remote-Control-Extender/dp/B000C1Z0HA), and purchasing an extra Moxi remote, which sells on eBay for only $10. The two work beautifully together.

I would guess that it is now up to Slingbox to again upgrade their software to include the new Moxi configuration. Moxi and Slingbox do work well together, even when viewing High Definition TV. I am looking forward to their Slingcatcher this fall, which could compete with the Moxi Mate, except there is currenlty a 10 second delay for the remote to react on the Slingbox that could become annoying on a primary TV. So hurry with your commercial Moxi.

I think our "remote fee" is also $10 so in the future (and other users) may well be able to request an additional remote - this is usually charged for people who lose their remote and request a replacement, but I see no reason why someone can't walk in and say they need a remote - they'd probably treat it the same way - Likewise as long as you turn in one remote per box, no one will complain that you've lost one (because in my thinking if you paid $10 to replace a lost remote and find it, you've paid for that remote, so you've bought that remote).

CSRs tend to stop when they think something isn't supported or beyond their routine - so I've learned that Too Much Information can easily make the experience difficult. ;)

CharterJames

08-08-07, 09:51 AM

Just a heads up - I've been told there are Charter Markets where some ppv channels (particularly the Adult) are showing up with a $0.00 price

Major warning here, because the price shown on the moxi guide is not reflecting the price in billing and there will be a price charged to the account!!!!

I've determined this isn't affecting my markets, but we've been told to keep an eye out for it - so if you're a Charter customer and happen to get a chance -
Check your PPV channels (will probably say InDemand) and the Adult PPV channels you should probably have a previews channel (in my market it's channel 800) then the rest of the channels with movies and events should show prices.

If you're seeing $0.00 shoot me a private message or email me at firstname.lastname@chartercom.com - this is not a Moxi / Digeo issue so much as a Tribune/Charter Guide info issue (more than likely some markets didn't correctly update their information) Again - the movies and events ARE NOT FREE and if you attempt to order something that says $0.00 it will bill your account.

bm196

08-08-07, 11:22 AM

The DCH6416 is not the Moxi in any way, shape or form, but if you call Charter and ask to have a DVR installed, it's what you'll get.

In many cases, if you already have a Moxi and you need it replaced, unless you specifically demand another Moxi you will almost surely get a DCH6416 as a replacement.

Color me contrary, but I was on a waiting list for 4 months (Charter) to replace the Moxi with a Moto 6416. I am 99.9 % happy with it over the Moxi--even with 4.1 (sound, SD quality, hard drive, HDMI output, favorites selection, menu, remote, etc.).

slim79

08-08-07, 02:44 PM

Frequently node level equipment comes "screaming hot" - maxed out for pushing signal - this is generally good if you need that much power, however depending on how many people are out there and how much plant there is - it may be way too much signal power - so what they have to do is put attenuators & pads on the line

I really dont think you should be speaking to this. your knowledge of RF Nodes and Amplifiers and characteristics appears to be very limited u are only adding to the confusion here

An HFC(hybrid fiber coax) Node is the main distrubution point for an area where light from fiber optic cable is converted to RF(radio frequency). While the output levels can vary in different sytem designs the input to nodes must be within a certain window for optimal operation specified by the manufacturer. the same is true for system amplifiers which take RF and amplify it to one or more outputs. padding is applied in locations in the amplifier or node to achieve the desired output levels. pilots are used to set the levels usually a low channel frequency wise and a high channel say ch.2 and ch 117 and for example you might be outputing 40dB on ch 2 and 49 on 117 the difference in level is known as tilt. this example is using a 9dB tilt. tilt is used to compensate for the effect of cable. as RF travels through lengths of cable it attenuates more rapidly at higher frequency then it does at lower frequency as u get further twards the end of a span of cable the tilt is less and less when u get to the input of the next amp u might have 20dB on 2 and 15 on 117 inside the amplifier a equalizer is adjusted to create the proper tilt again for the ouput of the amp and padding is applied to achieve proper levels.

Sweeping refers to testing amp response what you like to see is even response or gain across the entire RF spectrum. balancing/leveling refers to setting levels and tilt in amplifiers. idealy starting at the node and working your way through each amp to the end of the line.

i dont mean to sound like an ass but it is best to stick to what u know and can verify to be true or like i said it only adds to the confusion

MoxiMessenger

08-08-07, 08:32 PM

Okay, for all you folks in St. Louis, we have added another date on the Meet Moxi tour.

Date: August 16, 2007

Time: 7:30 pm - 10:00 p.m.

City: Maryland Heights/St. Louis, MO

For those new to the thread, I'm reposting my original message describing the event, but for those already familiar, you can go straight to www.moxi.com/meetmoxi to RSVP and secure your spot.
___________

You already know what Moxi can do for TV discovery and viewing, so we'd like to give you an exclusive preview of the Moxi features we're planning to introduce in the coming months. Plus – if you join us on August 16th, we'll give you a chance to win a new Moxi device when they are available later this year.

We'd like to learn about your experiences with Moxi and show you all of the new features Moxi has. Join us for an evening of discussion and demos - all about making your TV experience the best it can be.

Refreshments are on us. Be the first to learn about the great things in store for Moxi.

Please go to: www.moxi.com/meetmoxi to RSVP and receive location information.

wculbert

08-09-07, 10:43 AM

Pardon me for asking questions that have certainly already been answered somewhere within the 40+ pages of posts, but this is a popular site! Here goes, and thanks for any help you can give:

I am currently on Charter with the standard Moxi box. I have experienced the typical issues of signal strength and heating, but overall have been pleased with the pc quality. I am about to buy a new HD TV ( Sony KDL, supposedly top of the line) and audio receiver/ amp and want to make sure I have the best feed from Charter. I was told by both Tweeter and Circuit City that I needed to upgrade my Moxi to a unit with HDMI. When I went to Charter they told me that what I had was just fine and that they didn’t have and HDMI units available anyway. They argued against what Tweeter and CC had told me. My questions are;

- what is the best box from Charter?
- what is the advantage to Moxi over just using a stardard box and adding a DVD recorder?
- for a 32 inch TV does the 720p versus 1080i debate really make any difference?

Thanks for any help on these questions and any other advice to a first time HD user you may have!

Rampage522

08-09-07, 04:27 PM

If you currently have a Moxi, you don't have the capability of doing HDMI without a DVI-to-HDMI converter cable. Even then, due to handshaking issues that must occur on HDMI, some prefer the quickness of channel changes on component cable hookups versus HDMI. I have not seen anyone state that the HDMI on the Moxi looks much different from the component hookup.

Advantage of Moxi over a set top box + DVD recorder? Convenience I would guess (set up recordings in advance with no need for further interaction, ability to pause/rewind "live" TV, etc.).

On a 32 inch, you may see a slight difference but it will be miniscule.

You may wish to reference http://users.adelphia.net/~ksoltmann/SPLMoxiFAQ.htm or http://forums.moxi.com.

donb1948

08-11-07, 08:24 AM

Anyone experienced a problem with these boxes having periodic (every 15 to 30 minutes), momentary audio drop outs over the optical and coax outputs with audio preference set to "Dolby Digital?" If so, is there a cure?

Searching this thread turned up references to audio problems (particularly, low volume), but not where the volume cuts out for a fraction of a second. I did find one post that mentioned "drop outs," but could not find any description of the problem. I have also run down references to faqs listed in this thread, but, again, no mention of my problem.

I have been chasing this problem through my audio chain for a while and have reached the conclusion that the Moxi box or my AVR 4306 is at fault. However, because my display does not have digital inputs, I can not do the one test (Moxi to TV) that would be definitive in identifying the culprit.

Thanks.

jokerswild

08-11-07, 10:36 AM

Anyone experienced a problem with these boxes having periodic (every 15 to 30 minutes), momentary audio drop outs over the optical and coax outputs with audio preference set to "Dolby Digital?" If so, is there a cure?

I have that problem with my MoxiMate but not my Moxi itself. The moxiMate doesn't have the optical or coax audio outputs -- just RCA. I have never found a cure - your "audio set to dolby digital" is an interesting statement -- I will play with that. Good idea.

Hopefully someone else will have a better response than my "I Feel Your Pain" sympathy reply :)

donb1948

08-11-07, 11:02 AM

your "audio set to dolby digital" is an interesting statementjokerswild... Thanks for the sympathy. :) I am not sure that the dolby digital setting is significant. I mentioned it because that's the way I always run my system. I have not even tested whether or not the drop outs occur if audio is set to stereo or mono (though, for completeness, I should).

Houdini

08-11-07, 11:16 AM

when I have audio dropouts like you mention I also notice slight video glitches for a split second. These are caused by signal issues for me.

donb1948

08-11-07, 11:49 AM

Though I have tried to determine if video glitches could be correlated with the audio problelm, I have been unsatisfied with the outcome. First, I had a hard time focusing on the audio and video for 15 to 30 minutes at a stretch. And, second, by the time the audio glitch registered in my brain, it was too late to look for a video problem. I'll take another look at this. Thanks.

BadAttitude

08-11-07, 04:17 PM

I am about to buy a new HD TV ( Sony KDL, supposedly top of the line) and audio receiver/ amp and want to make sure I have the best feed from Charter. My experience has been that it's best to go thru the reciever first with component, then to the TV via HDMI, especially when the receiver is capable of upconversion.

Carl :)

cadarndjg

08-13-07, 05:46 AM

MoxiGuy

08-13-07, 08:50 AM

A few noobish questions, sorry.

I just started Charter cable service and got a moxi hd dvr installed. NOt sure what the model is. It says on the bottom of the box that it's a model mp12f revision E (Seems like someone made that model number out of thin air). It looks exactly like a BMC 9022.
Software version is 4.1.94SR

Just wondering if anyone knows if this unit with Charter accepts an external hard drive for storage, and is the dvi output able to be used? All the Moxi boxes (so far) look pretty much the same. The model name mp12f decodes as follows:

m (for Moxi)
p (for PowerKEY, the brand name for Scientific-Atlanta conditional access)
1 (for one-room)
2 (for two tuners)
f (for FireWire, AKA IEEE 1394)

the MP designation means it's for use in areas served by Scientific-Atlanta headends.

It corresponds to the Moto model BMC9012. (The 9022 is a two-room model).

DVI out and external drive should both be enabled. (To be sure about external drive, check settings on the menu and see if there's a card for external drive in the stack).

JoePerches

08-13-07, 09:44 PM

I heard that Moxi's are again available as replacements and new installs around here. I guess that means it's more likely that we'll really get the 4.1 upgrade sometime soon in TWville.

I believe it. If your family is like mine, they are still unhappy our Moxi was replaced by a 6416.

We're going back to prettier menus and better navigation. Your family might like it more too.

Pye in LA

08-13-07, 10:18 PM

I heard that Moxi's are again available as replacements and new installs around here.

You heard that where?, asks this TWC-West Hollywood Moxi devotee hopefully?

JoePerches

08-14-07, 01:11 AM

You heard that where?, asks this TWC-West Hollywood Moxi devotee hopefully?

An "in the know" source. cheers

CharterJames

08-14-07, 10:48 AM

- what is the best box from Charter?

My opinion for anyone using a non-tube based HD tv is that the best box provided by Charter (in a Motorola system) would be a DCH 6416 (this is the silver DVR with a Black front. The DCT 6416 is the same except it's not a OCAP box (though it does have MoCA support) If your using an HD tube, you'll probably feel the moxi has as good a picture - this is considering all 3 signal formats (Analog SD, Digital SD and HD)

For specs on the 6416 click here:
http://broadband.motorola.com/business/digitalvideo/product_dch6416_settop.asp

OCAP is commonly called "Open Cable" - based on the FCC mandate that went into effect on 07/01/07 that all new boxes do not have built-in encryption - effectively you get a barebones box with a cableCARD encryption "key" - These boxes should become widely availible via retail for those who don't want to rent. Currently the only such boxes I know availible are the TIVO Series III and the TIVO HD (essentually the S3a) though the Moxi boxes should be out soon from what I've seen here.

MoCA is a open protocol designed around shareing information over a person's in-home coax cables - the idea is to allow cable (or sat) boxes to talk to eachother as well as cable modems and even allow cross functionality (wireless hotspots, shared DVR content etc) - right now it's in the hardware phase - the DCH 6416 and all the DCH series boxes should support this (in theory when activated a DCH 200 SD box could pull DVR content from a 6416 DVR) - Again this is SUPPORTED by the hardware, but not yet activated - I've got a DCH 100 (SD digital only) in my office, but to date, no firmware, so I can't tell if you it works now (I suspect not) or when it's expected to - only that it's in the platform's mechanics and what's been posted in Press releases etc.

This box sports a 160 gig hard drive, HDMI connections, OCAP and MoCA support. As I understand it, expandibility is built into the platform, but not yet activated / supported. The box is M-Module (2 way multi-stream cableCARD) compliant and in any Motorola system is compatible with "legacy" apps so it should run all functions from the get-go. This is the box all Charter systems with a Motorola headend have gone to. The box uses the I-guide (TV Guide owned and operated interface, most systems are on version A24-x) interface which can be demo'd here
http://www.i-guide.tv/

One major point in your questions - about the usage of a DVD recorder - the BMC 90xx series of Motorola manufactured Digeo Moxi boxes only supports one output at a time - so if your using a HD output and you intend to record you'll need to have a recorder that's capable of HD input at your prefered resolution. Otherwise most DVD recorders support only 420i resolution - so you'd have to switch down to get an output on RCA, S-Video or RF out (on enabled models)

DVI input does not support recording and while the DVI is in use I believe the analog HD (Component outputs) are disabled (at least they were pre 4.1)

As far as I know, the DCH / DCT 64xx series does not have this issue - you can have the box set at 1080i, 720p etc and the SD outputs will continue to give a picture at 420i (so you can record SD while your watching in HD) - most recorders are SD only. Personally I've recorded a few hundred movies from VOD back when I was using a DCT2000 (old SD box) with my first DVD recorder and other than the built-in start up menu (usually just a background with thumbnails of what you've recorded) and the casual viewer would never know it was a SD recording. - Then again I am using a Phillips 1080i upconverting DVD player (though I'm not using the HDMI - TV has only one input, so that's going to my DVR ;) - at least until I invest in a HDMI switching home theater receiver) My wife and kids watched "Pitch Black" and "Chronicles of Riddick" on a 'Double Feature' disk I created and you could not tell it wasn't a factory DVD with encoded dolby sound - then again I have a decent Home theater that can "fake it" but it's way low-end compared to alot of what's out there. (Wally-world Pioneer HT in a box deal... it was all I could afford when my old system blew)

- what is the advantage to Moxi over just using a stardard box and adding a DVD recorder?

DVRs are great for "casual" viewing - that show you don't want to miss, watching your favorite shows on your schedule with minimal hassle. What they are not good for is Archiving... if you want to keep that show/movie etc for more than a week, chances are you're going to have to make the choice of what to keep and want to ditch. DVD Recorders give you a copy you can keep for the life of the disk - which can be viewed on any compatible dvd player (DVD+R units tend to be more compatible than DVD-R in my experience) - this copy can be accessed reguardless of if you're connected to your cable or paid your cable bill and won't go away if you have to get a box swapped.

Ideally you'd have both and record what you want to keep onto disk, but most people either live with having to delete their programs or record onto disk whatever they may want to see later. Many recorders support DVD+/-RW (re-write) but I've not seen to many great success stories with those. I prefer DVD+R

The DVR advantage is less fuss and not having to buy media to record on. The disadvantage is limited space. I say DVR because in this respect the BMC90xx and the DCT(H) 64xx series are pretty much the same in functionality - the differences are the user interface and some hardware differences (Moxi supports USB expansion, uses DVI, DCT&DCH support HDMI, no expansion)

The DVD recorder advantage is that you've got what you recorded, reguardless of what happens to your box. You can play it on your living room DVD, a kid's room or even on a portable DVD player. You might have difficulty copying it with a computer, but that copy is seperate of the box and archived for the life of the disk (unless you record over an RW)

- for a 32 inch TV does the 720p versus 1080i debate really make any difference?

IMHO - You'll see post going on and on about picture quality and resolutions - everyone will tell you when they see a great picture that that's what the want to duplicate. half the time when I troubleshoot a customer's HD box - they've got it set to 420i and never even realize it. for now 90% of your programming is in 420i - with some channels (notibly the HD ESPNs) natively in 720. Personally I prefer the progressive picture, but with a good HD tv, The added lines in 1080i make up for being interlaced. Try both and stick with what looks best on your TV :) You're the one watching it - so play with it until you get it the way you want it.

jrusch

08-14-07, 11:00 AM

DadCooks

08-14-07, 11:01 AM

CharterJames,

Thanks for another honest, frank, and informative post.

Too bad that this forum does not have the ability (or maybe it just isn't used) to put fine posts like this in an easy to access spot for folks to read first so that we do not have to ask the same questions over and over (Splinke's posts and FAQ are also "required" reading).

Thanks again for demonstrating that there are some Charter Employess will to go the extra mile for us customers.

CharterJames

08-14-07, 11:15 AM

Okay, so I've had a Charter Moxi for quite some time now, got the upgraded software, and now it works with an external HD. Good!

So yesterday I call Charter and ask to get a 2nd Moxi installed. He puts me on hold and a little while later he comes back and tells me my new monthly bill will be around $145. I tell him that's over $25 more per month than I'm paying now. He puts me on hold again and comes back and says it will be $135 ($15.00 more). More than what I thought it would be, but with the Packers on HD this season I want (need) the 2nd DVR.

So I schedule it. He tells me there is a $30 charge. I didn't like that. He said if I wanted to I could pick it up myself. I told him I thought they didn't allow DVRs to be installed by the customer. He told me he would authorize me to and put a note on my account and I could pick it up Friday.

Unexpectedly I have today off from work, so I called Charter to see if I could pick it up today. They said no way, never. I said the other guy told me I could. They said too bad for me. (I'm paraphrasing a little.) I told him I didn't want to pay the $30 fee. He said he has cable but not with Charter and the fee is normal. Made me feel a lot better.

So I go to the local office. They said that they don't allow the DVRs to be installed by the customer. They also said they were surprised that on the phone I was told I could get another Moxi because they were only allowed one per customer. So they said they would keep my scheduled install date of Saturday but they technician might not bring a Moxi and I'd have to wait and see.

Just another reason why I don't like my cable company.

Oh yeah, I told them I bought a Moxi from a local garage sale and I was wondering what I could do with it. They told me I had to give it back to them because it belongs to them. Is that correct or can I sell it on eBay?

Alot of CSRs will say there's a 1 DVR per customer limit - in the reality is - there is not - if you had an appointment made to get a second DVR and that office has one in inventory, you'll get one - It may not be a Moxi, but it will be a DVR (it may be a DCT or DCH 6416).

The install fee is pretty much standard, sometimes you can get it waived - chances are if you talk to the local customer service manager and bring up that you where told you could install it yourself by a call center person etc and took time off to pick it up - they may well cut you a deal.

As for the box - that's a mixed can of worms -

1) US MSOs (cable companies) do not sell cable boxes

2) No MSO is allowed to add "NEW" non OCAP (boxes that don't use cable cards) to their inventory. From what I've seen the definition of NEW is a box that has not previously been in their system and on a customer's account.

3) Chances are if you picked it up at a yard sale in your Cable Company's footprint - it is theirs. Customers lease their boxes and are expected to return them. If they are not returned the customer's account is billed a replacement fee, however Legally no bill of sale is generated - so the customer has been charged a fee for not returning the box and that box is still considered the cable company's equipment.

If it's turned in by the customer who was billed for it, they may be able to get the fee taken off / refunded (or the collections put against them reduced if they never paided the bill) but if anyone else turns it in, there's no compensation (unless your system offers a box reward, some systems will pay up to $25 each for bringing in unreturned boxes)

4) Technicially if you sell that box, you are selling stolen property. Ebay's TOS forbis that. Furthermore inside of the diagnostics of that Moxi there's information about the last MSO account the box was on - so it's very tracable should someone turn it in to a cable company.

I'd take it up with the person you bought that box from - try to get your money back. As far as the box goes though, it's really only usefull to the last Cable Company that it was assigned to - for everyone else it's unusable under FCC regulations now.

CharterJames

08-14-07, 11:21 AM

Jawz

08-14-07, 12:06 PM

4) Technicially if you sell that box, you are selling stolen property. Ebay's TOS forbis that. Furthermore inside of the diagnostics of that Moxi there's information about the last MSO account the box was on - so it's very tracable should someone turn it in to a cable company.

Technically, if Charter is charging a replacement fee for an unreturned box, they are parting ways with that box. They are stating that the box is no longer theirs by charging you for the cost of the box. So you would not be selling stolen property, Charter has recouped the cost of the box. I don't see how that box should be returned to Charter, they've already received the cost of the box, if they get that box back, they are making double the profit.

mktgMaven

08-14-07, 06:11 PM

Technically, if Charter is charging a replacement fee for an unreturned box, they are parting ways with that box. They are stating that the box is no longer theirs by charging you for the cost of the box. So you would not be selling stolen property, Charter has recouped the cost of the box. I don't see how that box should be returned to Charter, they've already received the cost of the box, if they get that box back, they are making double the profit. Is this an authoritative legal opinion or just your sense of how things should be? CharterJames' account seems more legit IMHO, but I'm not a lawyer, just a marketing dink.
Legally no bill of sale is generated - so the customer has been charged a fee for not returning the box and that box is still considered the cable company's equipment. A box picked up at a garage sale -- or on eBay -- is not only likely stolen property, it's even more likely worthless, because cable companies will not provision boxes of unknown provenance. (of course, if you sell it as a space heater in winter... you might get something for it.) ;)

dagware

08-14-07, 10:00 PM

You heard that where?, asks this TWC-West Hollywood Moxi devotee hopefully?
I also heard it from an "in the know" source.

-Dan

PWSHER

08-15-07, 12:27 AM

Plus – if you join us on August 16th, we'll give you a chance to win a new Moxi device when they are available later this year.

Can you be more specific about this? Does this mean that one person among all those that you show the Moxi to throughout the US, that one of those will win one?
Thanks,
Wayne

Jawz

08-15-07, 11:15 AM

dagware

08-15-07, 07:29 PM

Can you be more specific about this? Does this mean that one person among all those that you show the Moxi to throughout the US, that one of those will win one?
Thanks,
Wayne
What was said to me made me believe that there would be some news shortly about TWC and Moxi, and that the news would be good. The person who said it wasn't some lowly CSR or tech (not to demean techs, if any of them are reading this, and might come to my house :o ).

Unfortunately that's all I can say. However, you can search for my posts, and you'll see this is the first time I've ever posted anything like this. Of course, if it turns out to be wrong, this will be the *last* time I'll post anything like this. :eek:

-Dan

MoxiGuy

08-15-07, 07:56 PM

What was said to me made me believe that there would be some news shortly about TWC and Moxi, and that the news would be good. Here's what's verifiable: check the TW SoCal thread, and you'll see that TW is currently offering Moxi boxes to, at least, some customers. There haven't been any corporate announcements, but some individuals have announced that they had Moxi boxes installed recently. dagware has proven pretty reliable on these boards. I'd tend to trust him.

As for just how good the news might be beyond that... that falls under the heading of stay tuned. I've been hearing (and posting) for some time now that TW is considering 4.1 but they haven't made a final call on it. I remain hopeful.

MoxiGuy

08-15-07, 08:02 PM

I guess i'm going to be driving around Maryland Heights on Thursday trying to find where this meet is. I've yet to receive any word back on specifics of it, and it's only 1 day away. I know I signed up a little late (Monday), but I don't exactly check forums every day. Was hoping to see the new boxes :/Moxi Messenger posted on Moxi Community Forums today that it's Dave & Busters. But please go to www.moxi.com/meetmoxi (http://www.moxi.com/meetmoxi) to register. We'd like to know how much refreshments to order

BeeCee

08-15-07, 10:16 PM

Moxi Messenger posted on Moxi Community Forums today that it's Dave & Busters. But please go to www.moxi.com/meetmoxi (http://www.moxi.com/meetmoxi) to register. We'd like to know how much refreshments to order

How about the HOTLanta area?
After the cool down in early October.
You'd enjoy.
(already posted in the MOXI Forum area)

Really enjoy the 4.1 MOXIGUY
Trying to get the second DVR replaced(now a Moto 64xx)
No available MOXI's here.

BC

Jawz

08-16-07, 12:30 AM

Moxi Messenger posted on Moxi Community Forums today that it's Dave & Busters. But please go to www.moxi.com/meetmoxi (http://www.moxi.com/meetmoxi) to register. We'd like to know how much refreshments to order

I did already register and have yet to receive any additional info, other than 1 email welcoming me. That's it, no further info until your post. Thanks for the update though MoxiGuy.

PWSHER

08-16-07, 02:58 AM

I did already register and have yet to receive any additional info, other than 1 email welcoming me. That's it, no further info until your post. Thanks for the update though MoxiGuy.

How can they expect anyone to come if this is the way we are treated? I have now registered twice, gave them suggestions on where to have it but was never contacted with location and time. I did get a PM but with no details......no wonder they can't get my slingbox/Moxi problem fixed. Did they send out e-mails that my spam filter destroyed? Why is this a secret? Maybe I better not come. :confused:
Wayne

phatty

08-16-07, 07:50 AM

indiix2

08-16-07, 09:57 AM

tcfila

08-16-07, 10:29 AM

Yeah thats kinda what I thought.. I used a junk gmail email to register and never got anything.... but hey that means it won't be very crowded right?...I'm just happy to see the time posted as late evening to avoid the traffic hell that it would have usually required to head that way.

-Phatty

Ditto on that as well...no email. But its ok, I can't go anyway.

Will everyone that does go, please tell them that they are missing the boat by no putting an OTA tuner in the retail version?

Tim

CharterJames

08-16-07, 11:35 AM

Has anyone setup an external harddrive compatability listing? I seen some people have issues with some, but mostly the external add-on is successful.

I'm going to buy an external hdd today (looking at a WD MyBook), but i thought i'd ask just in-case others have had issues with this or other models.

I've not heard of one - there's basic stats in the hard drive section on the box - Previous posts have also indicated Hard drives with backup features / power saving features may cut off during usage.

Moxi Messenger / Mate
Do you guys have a page or know of a FAQ written on it - if not maybe we should start making some (I need to write up a few for Charter Services)

PWSHER

08-16-07, 12:14 PM

Yeah thats kinda what I thought.. I used a junk gmail email to register and never got anything.... but hey that means it won't be very crowded right?...I'm just happy to see the time posted as late evening to avoid the traffic hell that it would have usually required to head that way.

-Phatty

Where did you see a time? When is it? There better be free beer :D

I found it:
Time: 7:30 pm - 10:00 p.m. at Dave and Buster's

greinstein

08-16-07, 12:50 PM

I've not heard of one - there's basic stats in the hard drive section on the box - Previous posts have also indicated Hard drives with backup features / power saving features may cut off during usage.

Moxi Messenger / Mate
Do you guys have a page or know of a FAQ written on it - if not maybe we should start making some (I need to write up a few for Charter Services)

Check here:

http://forums.moxi.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=432

MoxiMessenger

08-16-07, 02:11 PM

Can you be more specific about this? Does this mean that one person among all those that you show the Moxi to throughout the US, that one of those will win one?
Thanks,
Wayne
Originally, it was planned as one Moxi Multi-Room HD DMR out of all the entries in our Meet Moxi tour. But, that was back when I thought we would do just a few of them. Looks like they are becoming more popular than I originally thought, and I'll likely extend them. So, now must rethink. Seems like either one Moxi for the original 5 cities of entrants, or 1 per 100 entries based on which works out as better odds for our ennthusiasts.

MoxiMessenger

08-16-07, 02:22 PM

How can they expect anyone to come if this is the way we are treated? I have now registered twice, gave them suggestions on where to have it but was never contacted with location and time. I did get a PM but with no details......no wonder they can't get my slingbox/Moxi problem fixed. Did they send out e-mails that my spam filter destroyed? Why is this a secret? Maybe I better not come. :confused:
Wayne
Wow... you folks are a tough crowd. :-)

First off, the MeetMoxi St Louis event will be from 7:30 to 10 p.m. tonight, 8/16 at:

Dave & Busters
13857 Riverport Dr.
St. Louis, MO 63043
314-209-8015
http://www.daveandbusters.com/Locations/Default.aspx?Loc=148

What is *supposed* to happen is when you go to the www.moxi.com/meetmoxi site to register, within a day or two you are supposed to get a confirmation email that includes the event location.

If any of you who have registered at the site didn't get a confirmation email, please PM me with your email address so I can troubleshoot. We use a third party service for the confirmations so any of a number of things could happened.

And BTW - Seattle to St. Louis is a bit of a distance, so any lag time between the PM I received from a single poster here can be attributed to being offline for travel. Now if one of you highly motivated and technial people can get American Airlines to provide internet service on planes, well, we would all be a lot happier :-)

Oh, and yes, of course there will be free beer and snacks!

MoxiMessenger

08-16-07, 02:28 PM

Ditto on that as well...no email. But its ok, I can't go anyway.

Will everyone that does go, please tell them that they are missing the boat by no putting an OTA tuner in the retail version?

Tim
Duly noted.

MoxiMessenger

08-16-07, 02:32 PM

Has anyone setup an external harddrive compatability listing? I seen some people have issues with some, but mostly the external add-on is successful.

I'm going to buy an external hdd today (looking at a WD MyBook), but i thought i'd ask just in-case others have had issues with this or other models.
Check the MoxiForum; MoxiSquad posted a list of the ones we tested with positive results. Mind you... we don't have the resources of some very large unamed corporations, so you wont see any kind of Moxi Certified program, but happy to share info on what we have tested with positive results.

http://forums.moxi.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=432

MoxiMessenger

08-16-07, 02:36 PM

How about the HOTLanta area?
After the cool down in early October.
You'd enjoy.
(already posted in the MOXI Forum area)

Really enjoy the 4.1 MOXIGUY
Trying to get the second DVR replaced(now a Moto 64xx)
No available MOXI's here.

BC
Noted. You are convincing me so let me check schedules and see if we can make it down there in October. Critical mass makes a big difference, so if many others are interested, please pipe up!

MoxiMessenger

08-16-07, 02:39 PM

Do you guys have a page or know of a FAQ written on it - if not maybe we should start making some (I need to write up a few for Charter Services)

I just posted a link to the list on our Forums, but this is a great idea; will work on something and also PM you for other topics to include.

SonicAD

08-16-07, 11:10 PM

I had something really, really weird happen this week (using 4.1).

I was recording the NASCAR race on Sunday on ESPNHD to watch later in the afternoon, and realized about 40 minutes in that it had stopped recording about 10 minutes prior. So, I set up a recording on regular ESPN, and went to see if changing the channel fixed ESPNHD. It did so, so I stopped and deleted the ESPN recording since it was landed right during a commercial break anyway.

When I looked again though, I saw that the first 30 minutes off of ESPNHD was gone too. I figured I must have accidentally deleted it, so I ended up just stopping my recording and waiting to get the race *cough* elsewhere.

Then yesterday, while I was watching some other stuff, I checked the recordings menu and that first half-hour had suddenly reappeared! It hadn't been there at all over the previous days, so I'm completely baffled as to where it went to. Anyone have an idea on what happened?

Also, since upgrading to 4.1, choosing to schedule a program anyway when it doesn't think there will be enough space available doesn't work at all for me. Like last Saturday night, I came home to see that the HD was only 78% full, but that 2 SD programs that were on later than everything else I'd recorded hadn't been recorded. I don't have any series set to record, since I like to set everything manually, so I'm also baffled at this. Thanks for any help!

Adelmoxi

08-16-07, 11:59 PM

Any new MOXI news?

PWSHER

08-17-07, 09:51 AM

Any new MOXI news?

Last evening there was a Moxi "meet & greet" at a local watering hole. It was nice to put a face with some of the folks that have contributed to this forum. MoxiMessenger and the other woman ( :o sorry I forgot her name) were nice and knowledgeable about the two new retail products.

I must say I really didn't learn too much although I have previously kept up with all the PR releases so there wasn't much new. But I do have a better feel for the company and where they are headed in the future. I realize that they can't tell us everything but if you read between the lines you get a good feeling for the future of their tiny company.

I think they were surprised to see so many of us in the audience (~20 while I was there) that were Moxi and Moxi Mate users and also about a fourth of us were Sling Box users! They commented that their engineers have had recent discussions with the Sling Box folks, have narrowed down the problems and are working on a solution. While support for Sling Box is not one of their features, they can see the synergy that these products have.

I was a little surprised (pleasantly) that they didn't push for more demographics from us but I guess they know their market. It was a very low key presentation with little hype and a genuine attempt to see what we were feeling about the Moxi and future products.

Overall I am still on the fence about the retail Moxi. With no support for the Apple Macintosh for audio streaming, no personal need presently for a HD mate and the fear that if I lay down $$$ and it turns out to be as mechanically shaky as the Moxi I will be disappointed.

The positive side would include a prettier (HD) and more functional (more info) interface. And probably the best feature would be the ability to get nearly immediate software updates. It's all a balancing act with what they have and what we want. Time will tell.

I'm glad I went and I sense they see the need for the multiroom (4) solutions. I also hope they don't make the mistake that Apple did when they overpriced the Macintosh and tried to make all their profits from us early adopters. You need to have smaller margins and get this out to the masses.

Just my opinion.
Please correct me if I miss spoke about any details.

Wayne

tcfila

08-17-07, 10:40 AM

Wayne,

Thanks for the update as I was unable to make it. Did they address the lack of OTA tuner for the retail unit?

Tim

PWSHER

08-17-07, 02:26 PM

Wayne,

Thanks for the update as I was unable to make it. Did they address the lack of OTA tuner for the retail unit?

Tim
Tim,
Yes, There were others asking about that also. I'm guessing that they determined that this wasn't a big need. She said (I'm paraphrasing) that they would probably revisit the availability of HD local versus what is offered in just digital in the top 20 markets. At least I think that is what was said. Others?
Wayne

CharterJames

08-17-07, 05:07 PM

I've noticed that alot of MFGs are shying away from Cablecard - they'll usually do a clear QAM but not cable card - then you get the CableCards that won't do ClearQAM.

IMHO this is not a "smart" practice - you've already got the digital tuner there - so the ability to tune to ClearQAM isn't an issue - so it's good to have both (such as TIVO's S3 and HD) however there can be caveats - I know TIVO won't tune to ANY cable broadcast in the digital range unless it has a cable card installed.

While this can seem problematic for some - I actually like this arrangement because it keeps the equipment from accidently tuning to unencrypted content that we keep on odd frequencies not accessible by any tuner that's running on our channel map (once inserted the cablecard should force the tuner to the MSO's virtual channel map)

Not that we are hiding anything out there... though I have heard of some systems where the VOD wasn't properly encrypted - ClearQAMs were able to pick up every video stream being ordered in their node...

tcfila

08-17-07, 08:11 PM

Tim,
Yes, There were others asking about that also. I'm guessing that they determined that this wasn't a big need. She said (I'm paraphrasing) that they would probably revisit the availability of HD local versus what is offered in just digital in the top 20 markets. At least I think that is what was said. Others?
Wayne

That's all fine and dandy, but what about the people that don't have cable/sat and want to have a decent DVR to get everything OTA. I think that they are missing the boat with this.

Tim

jasonvr

08-17-07, 08:52 PM

That's all fine and dandy, but what about the people that don't have cable/sat and want to have a decent DVR to get everything OTA. I think that they are missing the boat with this.

Tim

As I remember, there are two versions scheduled. The one with Cable Card does not have OTA, but I thought the one with clear QAM (and no cable card) did have an OTA tuner as well.

MoxiGuy

08-17-07, 11:25 PM

As I remember, there are two versions scheduled. The one with Cable Card does not have OTA, but I thought the one with clear QAM (and no cable card) did have an OTA tuner as well. yes it does.

Moxi Multi-room: no OTA; yes CableCARD, multi-room (with a digital MoxiMate)

Moxi Home Cinema: yes, OTA, ClearQAM, built-in home theatre amp; no cableCARD, no muti-room

BeeCee

08-19-07, 12:50 PM

Noted. You are convincing me so let me check schedules and see if we can make it down there in October. Critical mass makes a big difference, so if many others are interested, please pipe up!

Anyone else interested in the Atlanta Area?

MoxiMessenger;
Are the list(s) the ONLY way of increasing Critical Mass?
This maybe premature but;
One would think the retail outlets would be of some help as you are
trying to determine/develope a customer base.
Marketing is VERY important, especially now since it appears the
economy is headed for a slowdown.

BC

jrusch

08-20-07, 08:20 AM

CharterJames

08-20-07, 08:36 AM

I am so upset with Charter, their customer service is just terrible. Terrible. And I just need to vent.

I have a Moxi. I can connect an external hard drive so I can record all the High Definition I want. Great! So I contact Charter and ask to have a 2nd Moxi installed on the TV upstairs. They say fine and set up an appointment. They want to charge me $30. I tell them I don't want to pay $30. He tells me I can pick the Moxi up at my local office. I tell him I thought they didn't allow that. He tells me he will authorize it.

I go to the local office. They tell me there is no way they will give me a Moxi, a tech has to install it. They don't care what I was told. I ask why I can't install it myself. They say it requires a tech.

The installation is scheduled for Saturday. The tech arrives 15 minutes late, not a big deal if the appointment was at 10:00 and he shows at 10:15. But the appointment was "between 8 and 10" and I requested as early as possible.

The tech doesn't bring a Moxi. He brings some other Motorola DVR (anyone know what model it is, I'm not at home right now?). I say "that isn't a Moxi". He says "Nope, it is the latest one with all the bells and whistles". I watch him install it: plug in the cables, program the remote. Gee, I could have done that myself (after he leaves I did do it myself, I moved it to a different TV).

My wife isn't happy with the new DVR. It is something new. She knows the Moxi interface and doesn't want to deal with the hassle of a new one.

I call Charter and request I exchange it for a Moxi. They schedule another work order "between 3 and 5". If he gets there at 5:15 that would work perfectly because I don't get home until 5:00. I bet he'll call at 2:30 and say he'll be there in 15 minutes.

Oh yeah, the worst part: they say they can't promise a Moxi because they are phasing them out. They'll put it on the work order, but no guarantees. Great!

Anyone know the number for DirecTV? Tivo? I love my ReplayTVs but no high def. Bummer.

Right off the bat, Let me say "Sorry" on behalf of Charter - I know our call centers are less than plesant to deal with for alot of people (the main reason I'm here!)

To answer your question - that new DVR is either a DCT 6416 (all silver) or a DCH 6416 (Black front) - that call center person should have never told you that you could pick one up from the local office - but it seems some of them will say anything they can to get you off the phone so their phone stats look good. (Thankfully not all our call center staff is like this, but I hear enough tales to know we have more than a few bad apples)

Charter "officially" does not allow customers to install DVRs because of the more complicated process involving the Moxi - Someone, Somewhere in managment made this call largely because they didn't feel front count CSRs would properly provision the modem and set up the account correctly for the moxi and the customer would not be able to correctly to the channel map setup tool (or more importantly the front counter CSR wouldn't be able to instruct them how to do this correctly)

Ironically I've had to walk customers through it over and over because half the time our contract installers either forget, or don't care enough to make sure it's done and done right.

The other Irony is they still won't do an over the counter install with the new DVRs even though their entry process is no different than an HD or SD non-dvr box.

The local office should have let you get on some sort of waiting list, though more than likely the CSR was just doing what they thought was right. I'd definitely recommend trying to get the number of a customer service or tech ops manager and ask to be put on a waiting list for a Moxi if you find your unsatisfied with the 6416 series of DVR.

Because of Motorola's innability to make enough Moxi to meet our demand, and becuase of the FCC mandate to use OCAP equipment right now the only new DVRs coming in are DCH6416s. So the only Moxi boxes availible will be those returned from other customers either from exchanges or service calls.

They should be able to get a moxi to you if not now, later - If it means that much to you, please take it to your local customer service or tech ops manager - I know if you where in my system and I learned of this I'd be doing everything I could to make sure the next moxi we got in was reserved for people on a "waiting list" (and I'm sure as boxes start to fail and die, I'll probably have to do that unless we carry a Digeo OCAP box in the future)

jrusch

08-20-07, 09:46 AM

Thanks for your quick response James. It made me feel better and has good information.

Can I get a phone number for my local customer service or tech ops? Or is it just walk-in only?

CharterJames

08-20-07, 10:30 AM

The local offices usually are limited to 4 or so CSRs so standard policy is we don't have customer service numbers - simply because we don't have enough people to handle local call flow - so you'll probably have to walk-in

If you get someone like me, who's in Tech Ops and more than happy to help out - get thier office line & / or email - usually we'll offer it or give you a business card with it so we can make sure you get resolved - but if they don't, please feel free to ask for it! If no one's availible (managers often have local area offices under their belt and only the "main" one for a group is likely to have multiple managers and a warehouse operation) please feel free to ask for the contact information for the local customer service manager - they should be able to offer your an email, phone number or both.

(Cheat: usually the local office has some sort of number in the phone book - it may be listed as an "Charter adminsitrative office" - that will get you an automated number with a voice mail system / phone tree - so if you ever get the name of someone at that office, you can hit them directly over the phone)

I've noticed nothing tends to get a swifter reaction than someone coming in and have a "nice" face to face chat with a manager - that tends to get the right people on the job as the manager will know about the situation and the manager will know you'll be seeing them again if it's not resolved.

There are also online forms on the charter.com website that should enter a ticket / messaging system that can reach all levels of management - I've seen a few that came down all the way from CEO's bucket because the person felt they did not get a proper response from local and divisional management. (this too can be your direct shortcut to someone who can do something if a CSR says they can't.)

djk1940

08-20-07, 10:41 AM

Thankfully not all our call center staff is like this, but I hear enough tales to know we have more than a few bad apples.

The local office should have let you get on some sort of waiting list, though more than likely the CSR was just doing what they thought was right.

I had exactly the same experience as jrusch…twice, except I wanted what I thought would be a quieter DVR for my bedroom…I wanted “the latest [Motorola] with all the bells and whistles”, and they keep bringing me another Moxi, because “all the new Motorola DVRs had already been given out.”...after previously being assured they were in stock. So I put myself on waiting lists both over the phone and at my local Charter office, and stopped trying to schedule a Motorola delivery. After several months with no one from Charter calling, I gave up and purchased a used Sony DHG-DD250, and have been happy ever since the two Charter visits it required to get the cable card to work. I never got a call saying Charter now had a Motorola available. I only hope that my current Moxi continues to work until the retail version is available.

dsm

08-21-07, 02:48 PM

Unwanted Deletions

Hello folks. After weeks of bliss with the addition of a 500 gig WD MyBook Essential some problems have just cropped up ... namely some of my programs are being deleted without any prompting. I've never had the storage at over 55%. After much reading, here's why I think I never had a problem before and why I think I am having one now with unwanted deletion. The MyBook does have a sleep mode which can't be disabled, and what I think is happening now is that when it's sleeping the Moxi will delete shows on it's internal HD to make room ... makes sense. Why I think the problem didn't exist before is that when I first installed the MyBook, the internal HD was almost full, so the Moxi chose to buffer content on the MyBook. Because buffering happens 24/7, the MyBook was always being used and never went to sleep. What could have happened is that I recently deleted some old content that was recorded on the internal HD, so now the Moxi is buffering on the freed room on the internal HD, thus allowing the MyBook to go to sleep. When asleep, the Moxi will only record to the internal HD and will make room by deleting expired content there (all my shows are recorded at the default 2-day make room setting).

Other than switching over to a Seagate or other drive that I can disable the sleep mode, what options do I have? One that occurs to me:

(i) unplug the MyBook;
(ii) fill up the internal HD with recordings;
(iii) set all recordings to "never delete";
(iv) plug in MyBook.

This should force the Moxi to buffer content 24/7 to the MyBook and keep it from going to sleep.

Any thoughts? I sure don't want to loose any more shows.

CharterJames

08-21-07, 02:53 PM

elgibby

08-21-07, 03:03 PM

CharterJames

08-21-07, 03:04 PM

I had exactly the same experience as jrusch…twice, except I wanted what I thought would be a quieter DVR for my bedroom…I wanted “the latest [Motorola] with all the bells and whistles”, and they keep bringing me another Moxi, because “all the new Motorola DVRs had already been given out.”...after previously being assured they were in stock. So I put myself on waiting lists both over the phone and at my local Charter office, and stopped trying to schedule a Motorola delivery. After several months with no one from Charter calling, I gave up and purchased a used Sony DHG-DD250, and have been happy ever since the two Charter visits it required to get the cable card to work. I never got a call saying Charter now had a Motorola available. I only hope that my current Moxi continues to work until the retail version is available.

Unfortunately that doesn't suprise me - they should have gotten back to you - at the very least some sort of message should have gone out about the DVRs (of course until 4.1 moxi didn't support messaging and As I understand it Charter doesn't plan on really using the message feature like they do on DCTs)

I appologize that you where not told when a 6416 would have been availible
But I'm glad to hear you're enjoying your Sony DD250

If you ever run into cable card issues, drop me a line, I have come tech ops contacts for Ashville

dsm

08-21-07, 03:17 PM

If your WD is within the return period, I'd return it for a model that doesn't sleep if at all possible - if not and you're willing to cannibalize it - you can probably remove the hard drive out and get a generic USB case from NewEgg or some other online supplier for less than $30... Most of those do not have sleep modes so they should be able to use the existing hard drive and keep it on all the time.

Of course that will void any WD warranty on the external.

Unfortunately, I'm outside (barely) the return period. I do have a couple of cases - don't know if I want to cannibalize the WD. I might just watch all the good stuff on it this weekend, and swap in the Accomdata external case with drive after backing it up to the WD.

Does my idea about the buffer/cache make sense though? Might be worth a try.

CharterJames

08-21-07, 03:21 PM

Unfortunately, I'm outside (barely) the return period. I do have a couple of cases - don't know if I want to cannibalize the WD. I might just watch all the good stuff on it this weekend, and swap in the Accomdata external case with drive after backing it up to the WD.

Does my idea about the buffer/cache make sense though? Might be worth a try.

That might be one method of testing it - the big thing to is on computers those drives are used in a windows structure - if I remember correctly the moxi "os" is Linux based

Another possibility is someone's created a firmware patch for your situation or judging by the other post of working so far, there might be something timeing out or shutting down the firmware that runs the drive.

jrusch

08-21-07, 05:45 PM

kodaker

08-21-07, 09:43 PM

football751

08-21-07, 11:01 PM

B_Maddox

08-22-07, 02:29 AM

CharterJames

08-22-07, 07:55 AM

I am upset again. I called Charter and requested a Moxi. They scheduled an appointment. They told me they would put the Moxi request on the work order. I had an appointment today for between 3:00 and 5:00. I took 2 hours off from work.

The Charter guy shows up. No Moxi. None are available. I ask him why they couldn't have called me this morning to let me know. He said they weren't sure what I wanted until he got here because his work order just said to swap a box.

He apologized. It wasn't his fault. I asked if I could be put on a waiting list for one. He said nope, there is no list. He did say I could buy one directly from Moxi. Huh? Is that true? I asked if I could get one from eBay. He said he didn't know. I asked him about the box I got at a garage sale. He said no, it would have to be returned to Charter. I said "return it and bring it back". He said it would have to get sent back to Madison to get reset.

I could accept being told no Moxi's are available. I don't like it. But if there is nothing they can do...but why waste my time? They could have called me this morning and I wouldn't have wasted 2 hours of vacation time.

I'm tired of being told "I'm sorry" but then nothing being done about it.

Help?

I will see if I can find someone in Madison to work with you - drop me a private message or Email (firstname.lastname@chartercom.com) with the phone number your account is under (it may also require the consent of the person who's name the account is under if this is not you) I know I've heard a name or two from the tech ops on some of our Moxi and VOD conference calls.

The installer was dead wrong on buying a box - We cannot add any BMC90xx's bought by customers as of 07/01/07 so that leaves only Cable Card based DVRs (of which the moxi models have not gone retail yet)

CharterJames

08-22-07, 07:59 AM

My Moxi has recently lost some time. It is exactly 25 seconds slow. I know this since I have several atomic clocks that keep perfect time, also you can see that when programs change. This causes a recording to start late. I have reset the box and it didn't help. Any ideas? I sent an email to Charter and they want me to call for an appointment to have someone come out. I don't think it's my box. Surely the clock is not controlled locally. I would think if mine is slow others are too.

....Fred

The Moxi boxes, like the other boxes in a system are controlled by a specialized server - in Motorola based systems this is specifically called a "DAC"

Where the Moxi boxes differ from the normal boxes is that they only check the DAC for an updated time on reboot. As I understand it, the standard moxi setup is that the box will reload and reboot once a week as maintenance.

If your time is off from other boxes, a reboot should resolve this providing you box is able to connect without signal issue. However if the controller is off, all boxes in the system will be off and someone in Tech ops will have to correct it. (I know most headends try to set up their DAC and everything else to a Timer server that's in sync with Atomic Clock systems)

jrusch

08-22-07, 08:20 AM

I will see if I can find someone in Madison to work with you - drop me a private message or Email (firstname.lastname@chartercom.com) with the phone number your account is under (it may also require the consent of the person who's name the account is under if this is not you) I know I've heard a name or two from the tech ops on some of our Moxi and VOD conference calls.

Email has been sent. Thanks!

CharterJames

08-22-07, 08:59 AM

So here's a question:

The other day, I returned home to find both of my MOXI boxes displaying a 'Problem with your account status' message. This usually has to do with late payment, and I have seen it once or twice in the past 2 years. I thought we were pretty good and paid up, but I hadn't talked to my roommate about it sinse she was out of town. So I simply figured that I'd wait until she returned. (Yes, I lived without MOXI for a week. It sucked.) Anyway, just for fun, I turned on my living room TV today, and the MOXI was running just fine. Yet my downstairs TV is still giving me the 'Sorry' message. I rebooted both systems, and still the same thing. Why? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

As you surmised, chances are it's from an automatic billing shut down - but either the second box hasn't received the "all clear" or something screwed up while it was down.

I've seen that message come up when someone sends an initialization (usually used to reset boxes) down to the box. Sometimes this will affect the box information so it is no longer in sync with the billing system. Sometimes this can be corrected by sending another init or resetting the box - other times it won't go away until the box is run through the warehouse process again. - That would mean a box swap (and thus losing anything on the old box)

Are you in a Charter system?

If you are email me (or pm) your account phone number I can try to take a look - if your system is not on the same billing system as mine I might still be able to access your box by Digeo's remote tools using the Moxi DOCSIS id.

B_Maddox

08-22-07, 04:58 PM

Thanks...

I just sent you a PM.

Brad

kininn

08-22-07, 07:56 PM

B_Maddox

08-22-07, 09:33 PM

CharterJames,

I just got off the phone with the folks at Charter, and everything now seems to be working fine. Thanks for your offer to help.

Brad

MoxiGuy

08-22-07, 09:49 PM

The Charter guy shows up. No Moxi. None are available.... I asked if I could be put on a waiting list for one. He said nope, ... I could buy one directly from Moxi. Huh? Is that true? I asked if I could get one from eBay...I'm tired of being told "I'm sorry" but then nothing being done about it. We're, in a transition period, where the cable companies are not permitted to order new boxes unless they have cableCARD support. For that reason, the current models of Moxi are in very short supply. They're not being made. The only time they become available is when a current customer returns one. It's very hard for the cable companies to manage to that, so it's hard for them to schedule and predict, much less guarantee that a Moxi box will be available when you want it. (There are some exceptions. Apparently some areas have a good supply of Moxi boxes on hand.)

Moxi has a new box with CableCARD on the way, planned for later this year. They will be made available to cable companies, and then, hopefully, you'll be able to ask for one and get one.

As for buying a box. eBay is not a good place to look. Boxes on eBay are probably stolen, and cable companies will not authorize their use on their systems.

You can't currently buy a box from Moxi. But you will. Moxi has two flavors of retail boxes on the way--one for use with CableCARD, the other for over-the-air reception. These are also planned for later this year. (Moxi Messenger has been showing one of these new boxes on the Moxi Roadshow.)

MoxiGuy

08-22-07, 09:56 PM

I want to jump in here with a big thank you to CharterJames for being so generous and conscientious in helping out Charter customers with Moxi issues.

cadarndjg

08-23-07, 12:18 AM

petefoss

08-23-07, 07:25 AM

That should work as long as the extra splitter doesn't drop your signal strength to the Moxi too low.

CharterJames

08-23-07, 08:20 AM

CharterJames,

I just got off the phone with the folks at Charter, and everything now seems to be working fine. Thanks for your offer to help.

Brad

Good Deal
We had a nasty storm here yesterday evening, killed power from about 4 to 7pm so I had quite a night last night *L* I already responded to the PM, but if your up and running you can just delete the message.

Keep my email address and feel free to let me know if you get any other issues!

CharterJames

08-23-07, 08:22 AM

I want to jump in here with a big thank you to CharterJames for being so generous and conscientious in helping out Charter customers with Moxi issues.

Thanks MoxiGuy :)

I can't fix every problem, but if I can make a difference I consider it a day well spent :D

CharterJames

08-23-07, 08:24 AM

I'm not too experienced with using a box, and I want to try using the picture in picture on my tv. Maybe a splitter with one going to my tv's antenna input and one going to my box(connected to tv via dvi/hdmi)?

As Pete indicated, you should be ok - so long as your signal doesn't go too low - You'll get best results using a splitter that has at least a 1ghz (1000mhz) signal range and I would keep it to a 2 way splitter - that should limit your signal loss to -2.5db

Once you've got the splitter in place test your box - what I recommend:

1) Go into Internal Diagnostics - Option 8 Actions and Triggers, Option 2 Ping Test
This ping the digeo server to make sure you're still talking to it

2) exit out by hitting Live TV and test the following
a) Ticker (this requires interaction with the modem - so you know you're online and running)
b) VOD
c) All HD channels you subscribe to

Usually if you've got a signal problem one or more of the above will either not work or have bad picture quality. You'll probably also want to pay attention to the lowest and highest number analog channels - but usually splitting tends to cause more problems for 2 way and Digital services than the analog.

CharterJames

08-23-07, 02:29 PM

Just a quick Warning - The Hickory Headend suffered a failure of one of our backup generators last night when someone got into a nasty wreck - We had all sorts of issues that have largely been corrected now - however this is one other casualty - our Digeo Server

Right now Ticker works and people are able to get updated programming - however because the VOD metadata rests on that server - VOD is unavailible (only on BMC 90xx boxes) until we get the replacement up and running.

Fortunately they've got a spare in SC and one of our guys is running to get it now. We hope to have it up, loaded and ready to go by 6pm tonight, but given murphy's law we're telling people over the phone it may be as long as 24 hours.

greinstein

08-23-07, 02:45 PM

Here is the link to an interesting article on the PCmag.com webpage about the end of Tivo (for the author) and using the cable company's dvr:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,2113882,00.asp

Maybe Moximessinger or Moxiguy should bring him up to date on the new Moxi boxes.

(Now, after I posted this, I note the date on the article is 4-07, but an e-mail from PCmag today listed it as new.)

cadarndjg

08-23-07, 03:19 PM

Once you've got the splitter in place test your box - what I recommend:

1) Go into Internal Diagnostics - Option 8 Actions and Triggers, Option 2 Ping Test

Maybe I'm just overlooking it, but I'm not finding Internal Diagnostics anywhere on the menu.

GlendaleHDTV

08-23-07, 03:33 PM

Maybe I'm just overlooking it, but I'm not finding Internal Diagnostics anywhere on the menu.

I think you have to go into the On-Screen Diagnostics. Here are the instructions from Splinke's FAQ http://users.adelphia.net/~ksoltmann/SPLMoxiFAQ.htm#Installation:

On-Screen Diagnostics (OSD) menu

Some of the troubleshooting tips in this section require accessing the Moxi's OSD menu. The OSD provides access to device, account, and subscriber information; diagnostic values for hardware, software, network, and resource usage; and triggers for forcing critical updates. To display the OSD, simultaneously press and hold the MENU and OK buttons on the front of the box (not the remote) for about four seconds. Use the arrow keys to navigate through the menus, and press Moxi to exit.

markt170

08-23-07, 06:09 PM

Done with Moxi . . . for now.

I've had Moxi for about 4 years through Adelphia and now TWC in So Cal, and I've always been a big fan. I still prefer the interface and guide to the non-Moxi offering of TWC, but when my first Moxi died three weeks ago, there were no Moxi's available, so TWC gave me a new box 3416, which holds more and most importantly, is much faster and more responsive than Moxi, and in the bedroom, it's much quieter. TWC never upgraded the Moxi sofware to whatever the current version is which apparently corrects the responsiveness problems. After a few weeks with the 3416, I admit I prefer it to the Moxi, so I traded in my second Moxi unit also. I still will probably buy the two Moxi's when they become available to retail customers (assuming there is a strong warranty on this delicate machine and assuming that all of the other software limitations are solved), but for now, it's bye bye Moxi.

MoxiGuy

08-23-07, 08:00 PM

Maybe Moximessinger or Moxiguy should bring him up to date on the new Moxi boxes. Thanks for the tip.

MoxiGuy

08-23-07, 08:56 PM

Done with Moxi . . . for now. Mark, I appreciate the support you've given Moxi over the years. Sorry to see you leaving. (although, in one case, it was actually Moxi that left.) Encouraged that you might come back. Please check your private messages.

MoxiGuy

bm196

08-24-07, 03:33 PM

MoxiMessenger

08-24-07, 04:18 PM

Last evening there was a Moxi "meet & greet" at a local watering hole. It was nice to put a face with some of the folks that have contributed to this forum. MoxiMessenger and the other woman ( :o sorry I forgot her name) were nice and knowledgeable about the two new retail products....

Wayne - thanks for the props. The other gal was Aden :-) And I can confirm your post is indeed correct/factual.

Many thanks to everyone who came out last week - I owe you all some follow up and I'm working on it. I can't emphasize how valuable these discussions are... so keep them coming! :D

MoxiMessenger

MoxiMessenger

08-24-07, 04:42 PM

That's all fine and dandy, but what about the people that don't have cable/sat and want to have a decent DVR to get everything OTA. I think that they are missing the boat with this.

Tim

Hi Tim - in those instances we are offering the Moxi Home Cinema HD DMR, which actually supports ATSC/NTSC/ClearQAM, however, that unit will not support CableCARD, so for the folks who have premium cable subscriptions and ALSO want OTA HD tuning, it becomes an either/or choice.

I think that is what Wayne was addressing. When we were designing the products I don't think we anticipated as strong of a demand for units that could do both, but consider us educated ;)

MoxiMessenger

MoxiMessenger

08-24-07, 05:02 PM

Anyone else interested in the Atlanta Area?

MoxiMessenger;
Are the list(s) the ONLY way of increasing Critical Mass?
This maybe premature but;
One would think the retail outlets would be of some help as you are
trying to determine/develope a customer base.
Marketing is VERY important, especially now since it appears the
economy is headed for a slowdown.

BC

Agree, marketing is *very* important right now. The challenge with the Atlanta area is that all our users are spread out in a star shape around the city, anywhere from a 40 min to 3 hour drive to Atlanta. I know how much folks hate to drive in traffic, so it makes finding a locale that a number of folks would find convenient challenging.

That doesn't mean it isn't an option... I'm trying to make October happen, so if I get a sense from users on this Forum, or others in ATL area on where I can draw the most attendees, I can do a better job of picking locale :-)

MoxiMessenger

MoxiMessenger

08-24-07, 05:08 PM

I want to jump in here with a big thank you to CharterJames for being so generous and conscientious in helping out Charter customers with Moxi issues.

Second that!

petefoss

08-24-07, 09:24 PM

PWSHER

08-26-07, 12:32 PM

I'm also running a MyBook as my external drive and I think I might have had an unneccesary deletion as discussed above when the drive falls asleep. Can other MyBook owners confirm that they have also seen this?

I have been using the 500 GB Western Digital "My Book" for monthes with absolutely no problems. I record a lot of programming with no premature deletions!
Wayne

StockInv

08-26-07, 05:26 PM

kelliot

08-26-07, 11:48 PM

Side bet?

Been a month almost. Hell is still pretty hot.

kelliot

08-26-07, 11:49 PM

Amen to ReplayTV.

Hell will freeze over before TWC updates. They want to get rid of the Moxis.

The original.

CharterJames

08-27-07, 08:09 AM

DCT 6416/PIP question: TV does not have PIP. but has two cable inputs. If I split cable, one thru DCT to TV and one directly to TV, will the DCT software provide a PIP thru the PIP buttons on the remote?

More than likely not - The PIP options on the New Universal remote are for TVs that support PIP. - The I-Guide's only real picture support is the preview window while the menu is up (and that's only on DCT 2500s and better - the oldest SD boxes - the DCT2000 can't support this)

CharterJames

08-27-07, 08:22 AM

On a number of occasions I have scheduled my Moxibox to record and it has failed to do so. When I go into the Moxi menu, under "Scheduled to Record", I get the message, "Failed to Record, No Signal". Can anyone tell me what is happening here? Is my Moxibox malfunctioning?

I would think that you might have a signal issue disrupts the channel so that it cannot tune when the recording is set to start - but I would also imagine if that was the case you'd probably catch it in multiple channels etc - generally most people will record so long as there's a good enough signal for the box to get a lock on (Some of the headend techs and I have a tendency of setting Moxi and 6416s to record channels we hear are having problems so we can try to catch it in the act and verify it's a feed issue and not a local signal issue.)

Is this happening on one particular channel or several?

Can you tune to the channel and get a picture?

If you can manually tune to the channel and see the show - but it says there's a signal failure when you're trying to record - I'd say you've either got a temporary software glitch (which could probably be fixed with a software reload) or you've got a hardware issue in the box (possibly the second tuner isn't working properly)

If you cannot tune to the channel and get the long message saying there's either an issue with the channel or you don't subscribe - that's definitely a signal issue.

If you want to rule out the possibility of it being a software issue, just go into your internal diagnostics - option 8, Option 83 and trigger a software update (Be warned, the box will reboot on it's own about 30 minutes later once it's updated)

Just as an FYI for the 6416 users out there
On a 6416 if you lost power just before (or during) the recording you'd stand a chance of losing the show - as the I-guide based boxes lose their guide data and current time on reboot and it can take up to 15 minutes to restore guide data (time is usually restored no later than 5)

I learned this last week with when it happened to me during Big Brother... (My wife was TICKED) - we lost power just before the show and she had to manually record it, lost power during the show twice (creating two more manual records) and probably lost a few minutes (thankfully one of the losses was during commercial time) - This is a negative compared to the moxi which downloads and stores 10 to 11 days of guide data and retains it's time setting locally (and checks against the Digital Controller every reboot)

Another negative against the 6416 is if the guide data won't load at all (in the case of boxes that were powercycled while key headend equipment was down) they are locked out from the DVR feature because they cannot verify the existance of the Digital Controller and other equipment. No accessing recorded programming, no rewind, ff etc. Albiet this is a RARE situation that would only occur during a major hardware failure or during a major glitch during a firmware upgrade.

Course, while the moxi gives you a buffer before most people will notice issues, that also can delay reaction to a problem... Usually VOD and Ticker are the best features to use to ensure that your moxi's modem is online and all is well.

Now back to our regular scheduled Moxi Discussion

EvanATL

08-27-07, 09:28 AM

Sound issue: constantly getting quieter throughout recorded program

MoxiGuy et al.,

I know that many people have commented on the low volume issue with 4.1, and I have experienced it as well. However, I've also experienced another volume problem that seems even stranger, and wanted to know if you have any ideas as to what might be causing it.

When I watch a recorded program, particularly one in HD, the sound levels start out reasonable enough, but if I pause the program for any significant amount of time (say, 5 minutes or more, to answer the phone or something), when I hit play again, the volume is significantly lower, and I have to increase it as a result. Last night I watched a recorded HD movie and paused it several times; by the time it was over, my volume control on the TV was dialed up to 70 out of 100. (I'd started the film with the level in the 30s.) The subject matter was the same throughout the movie - primarily just conversation, so it's not like I was watching loud action at the start of the film and then turning up the volume to hear whisper-quiet scenes at the end. When I stopped the recording and returned to live TV, the output was deafeningly loud.

Have you heard of this issue before, and if so, any ideas as to what might be the driver?

Thanks for all the great info you've posted in here in the past. I am thrilled with the Moxi product, but on the rare occasion that I actually have issues with it, I find that this is an invaluable source.

Brgds

Evan

Tom Hilton

08-27-07, 11:56 AM

StockInv

08-27-07, 01:06 PM

[QUOTE=Tom Hilton;11434864]Are you using an external hard drive to supplement your Moxi recording capacity?

The reason I ask is that I began getting exactly the same message ("Failed, no signal") after I introduced an external hard drive to the Moxi via USB. It turned out that the recording failures occur because the external drive had a built in sleep mode function, and the Moxi could not record if the external drive was sleeping when a recording was scheduled to begin. Thus, the Moxi reported: "Failed, no signal" under the "Canceled and Deleted" section of the menu.

I was trying to use a Seagate Free Agent external hard drive. I learned a bit later that the Free Agent Pro model was different from the more basic Free Agent in that the Pro came with software to turn off sleep mode. I was still within the 30 day return window at Best Buy, so I exchanged my Free Agent for a Free Agent Pro. Before I hooked the Pro to the Moxi, I connected it to my computer and set sleep mode interval to "Never". Since then, no more recording failures or "Failed, no signal" messages have come from the Moxi. :)

Don't know if you are having the same problem I had, but just thought I'd mention it.[/QUOTE

Yes! I'm having the exact same problem. I, too have a Seagate Free Agent external hard drive. My 30 days are up, so I don't think I can return the hd.
I'm wondering why it goes into the sleep mode at times. Some shows record and other fail to do so.

MoxiMessenger

08-27-07, 09:10 PM

[/QUOTE

Yes! I'm having the exact same problem. I, too have a Seagate Free Agent external hard drive. My 30 days are up, so I don't think I can return the hd.
I'm wondering why it goes into the sleep mode at times. Some shows record and other fail to do so.[/QUOTE]

Seagate has provided a firmware link that may be able to help with this and edits the sleep function on Seagate hard drives:

http://www.seagate.com/support/freeagent/desktop-recovery-efigs.zip

One small note, apparently, there is a known issue where sometimes the changes don’t stick when the hard drive is then reconnected to a different device, so you should always do a test scheduled recording just to be safe.

Tom Hilton

08-27-07, 09:43 PM

Yes! I'm having the exact same problem. I, too have a Seagate Free Agent external hard drive. My 30 days are up, so I don't think I can return the hd.
I'm wondering why it goes into the sleep mode at times. Some shows record and other fail to do so.

Evidently, the Free Agent basic model is factory set to go into sleep mode after being inactive for a certain interval, something like 15 or 30 minutes. When it comes time for a scheduled recording and the Free Agent drive has been active (recording or playing) within the interval, then it will be awake and able to record as scheduled. Alternatively, if there is room on the Moxi hard drive, the recording might happen because Moxi chooses to record on its own drive. However, if the Free Agent is asleep and Moxi tries to record on it rather than its internal drive, the recording attempt will fail (That's when you get the "Failed, no signal" message).

If you can't exchange for a Free Agent Pro, you may be able to download software from Seagate that will allow you to instruct your Free Agent not to go into sleep mode. There was some discussion about this option on the Moxi forums at the following links:
http://forums.moxi.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=282
http://forums.moxi.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=306

I wish you the best in resolving this issue, because the additional recording capacity is an excellent upgrade for the Moxi's small hard drive. Good luck! :)

EDIT: Looks like Moxi Messenger was faster on the draw with his post and gave you similar info before I finished my post.

CharterJames

08-28-07, 11:04 AM

Digeo has created a fix to the sound issues that have occured since the 4.1 launch.

Charter plans on testing the fix starting tomorrow going through Friday

specific fixes per what I was sent:

Low Audio from the MOXI BMC9012 box. This was most noticeable when switching from a different source and the MOXI. Audio levels on either TV or Home Entertainment (amplifier) volume settings had to be increased substantially.
No audio from the Optical SPDIF port. Coaxial SPDIF port not an issue

I'm looking into what the ETA is for full deployment providing the there are no "show-stopper" issues.

jasonvr

08-28-07, 11:14 AM

This is just sad. Charter is already rolling out and UPDATE to 4.1 and TWC hasn't even rolled out 4.1 yet!

Adelmoxi

08-28-07, 01:27 PM

dagware

08-28-07, 03:23 PM

This is just sad. Charter is already rolling out and UPDATE to 4.1 and TWC hasn't even rolled out 4.1 yet!

I agree.

CharterJames -

If your bosses ever wonder whether your presence on this forum is a good investment, just tell them how many of us TWC customers wish we were Charter customers, right now!

-Dan

CharterJames

08-28-07, 03:48 PM

I agree.

CharterJames -

If your bosses ever wonder whether your presence on this forum is a good investment, just tell them how many of us TWC customers wish we were Charter customers, right now!

-Dan

I wish I could help you out there!

I'm amazed that TWC doesn't seem to be as quick to keep up with the Digeo Platform... course it may be that Charter & Digeo's special connection (Namely Paul Allen) keeps us closer together than other MSOs might.

My supervisor knows I come here to keep tabs on issues, but other than that I doubt many in Charter know of my secret life here *L*

CharterJames

08-28-07, 03:55 PM

since the BMC 9012D don't have HDMI what cables do I need to get a good HD signal? I heard that MOXI sent out an email saying that theire are MOXI's available in TWC"S LA teritory, (keeping my fingers crossed) I may have one installed to replace my 6416 (hooked up via HDMI).

I've heard people get pretty good results using a DVI to HDMI conversion cable - you can probably get one for a decent price at http://www.newegg.com - This won't carry over the audio like a HDMI will so you'll need to use RCA, SPDIF (Coaxial) or Optical for the audio - I definitely recommend Optical if your using a home theater :D

Just search for DVI HDMI and you'll get all sorts of hits - adapters and cables.

Here's a 3ft cable
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812189137

Here's a 7 ft cable
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812189056

I got my HDMI cables from here when I refused to pay $50 for one at a certain major big box electronics retailer (Best Buy and Circut City are usually overpriced)

CharterJames

08-28-07, 03:58 PM

I've managed to get my market into the test bed :D:cool::D

So anyone in Western NC (Ashville / Hickory / Boone / North Wilkes) please keep a look out! Let me know if it improved and let me know if you catch any other unusual bugs... Also SC people (GSA) - I've learned you're on the test bed as well - if all goes well we'll probably push this to the rest of the Country by the end of next week!

Danniboy

08-29-07, 01:10 AM

CharterJames

08-29-07, 08:34 AM

I've been reading a lot about cable companies, Time Warner being one them, going to SDV (switched digital video). From what I've heard this isn't entirely compatible with cable cards, so the tivo series 3 is having some issues. Apparently the Cable Labs group is working on a usb based adapter for Tivo that will make it compatible with this newer technology. Is this something we'll have to worry about with the new Retail Moxi's which use cable cards?

Time Warner has pretty much been at the forfront of SDV. While I'm sure Charter will adapt to it and start to use it, I think we are curious to see the pitfalls TW gets into with it first... let MSO's #1 and #2 find all the sharks before we go swimming into the water ;)

SDV is a very interesting can of worms - essentually it works like VOD

With VOD you have a server system that streams out the content as it's demanded - mpeg files are streamed down a set of hidden virtual channels - you select the title you want from the menu and the box is told where to tune for your requested session.

With SDV you'd have a variety of channels running through a switch - if you wanted to tune to say VH1, the switch would put the VH1 feed up on a hidden virtual channel and tell your tuner where to find it. This would be ideal as we get more niche programming that only appeals to certain segments of our customer base or programming that is viewed heavy during certain times... If everyone's watching Dexter on Showtime, then not many people are watching the other showtime channels... so we would only have to use bandwidth for what people are actually watching.

The down side of SDV is, just like VOD we need interactive communication with the box - we have to know what your specific box wants to watch and be able to tell it where to go.

There are two sides of this - Hardware and Software.

A USB dongle probably isn't going to contain the needed hardware if the equipment itself was never designed for 2-way communication. To Tivo's credit I think the SIII probably is designed to correctly handle 2 way communication, it just needs the software. While this could be put on USB flash memory - Given TIVO's operating system etc - it would probably be more effecient to just send a software re-write or flash upgrade through the ethernet connection. Of course just because it's more effecient doesn't mean someone might have said "hey, let's put it on a flash drive and make them PAY to use SDV"

I recently tried an M Module in a TIVO SIII and was disappointed - it was able to work (which was better than when I tried the pre-launch m cards) but it didn't seem to see the M-module as a multistream cable card (it still wanted a second card) and it would not see the card as 2 way capable.

As such I would hope hardware is probably there, but for now the software is lacking on the TIVO SIII platform for true 2 way capability.

With the extensive hacking that goes on around the TIVO forum, I'd expect if they market it in a USB format rather than a global update - someone will hack around it.

Given Digeo's previous work with the cable arena, they have a leg up on TIVO in designing things to work in a 2 way system. Using TIVO's example Digeo knows what people are trying to hack, what they like and what they don't like. To compete Digeo knows they have to be different (and better) than TIVO.

From what I've seen (Feel free to debate, add and subtract to this as you will) Digeo has designed the cableCARD boxes around the M-Module - they went with a single slot because they made a point of working with the Multistream abililty of the M Card. I would be shocked (and disappointed) if they didn't design thier box for two way plant from the get-go.

Let's not also forget that Digeo is part of Paul Allen's "Wired World" - Just as Charter is - So I am willing to bet that the new Moxi was designed with cable companies in mind (and I'm hoping Charter will take the lead in pushing the MSO variants)

I know from seeing the Moxi's at work here at Charter that the boxes are very agile - they can do alot from changes to the operating system. My biggest complaints about the BMC 90xx series have been hardware limitations (tuner quality etc) - I would expect the new boxes would have improved on this just as Motorola's non-BMC boxes have.

Given that the Upcoming cableCARD moxi boxes are designed with the M Module in mind and they are working on MSO variants for us to use in house, I'd expect them to be ready to go for Multistream and interactive ability.

We've already heard here that VOD won't be immediately availible - and I would say that's due to the current progression of OCAP standards - I thought we were further along than we are - I would have considered current DCH boxes OCAP, but because they are stuck on Legacy applications they are what's called NPH (Non-Portable Hosts).

In the beginning there won't be too many differences other than Multistream usage over two single stream cards in the TIVO Vs Moxi race. I'm putting my money on Digeo's horse though as I suspect they will adapt to the OCAP applications quicker and probably work in a cable enviroment with less problems.

Will Moxi support SDV - they would be stupid not to! Same with TIVO, but I think TIVO has less access to the cable world and how they operate than Moxi does. Since Moxi is also making an MSO version, they already know how to make it work - they just have to wait on OCAP applications.

TIVO was a great pioneer - they really blazed the way for DVR technology - but the problem with being the first one to market is now everyone has your idea and can start working on improving it.

The biggest losers in SDV will be CableCARD TVs - some of these are difficult to flash upgrade or were designed only for Single Stream 1 way communication. I suspect alot of Cablecard TVs will either be unsupported by their manufacturers or where not designed with future expansion in mind.

I think SDV will become the platform of the future, but I don't think we'll see mass deployment until we reach all digital first.

riddlerclak

08-29-07, 09:26 PM

Just read a story about Directv adding 20 new hd channels by sept 16th...... I have heard it said that cable companies are very tight and new not brag about future plans....
Does charterjames know anything about future HD channels for Charter??

riddlerclak

08-29-07, 10:59 PM

Though it may not get an answer....
Why are some HD channels offered in some markets and not in others??

aenigmaz

08-29-07, 11:14 PM

Derrick2020

08-30-07, 07:14 AM

Is there any way to access the HDD to copy the programs off of it, through the pc or the new DVR?

Unfortunately when your moxi died your content on your external hdd became useless. The content on that hdd will only work with your old moxi. Even if you would have gotten another moxi, the hdd would've had to been reformatted and you would've lost all the programming on that hdd.

CharterJames

08-30-07, 08:26 AM

Though it may not get an answer....
Why are some HD channels offered in some markets and not in others??

Just read a story about Directv adding 20 new hd channels by sept 16th...... I have heard it said that cable companies are very tight and new not brag about future plans....
Does charterjames know anything about future HD channels for Charter??

Right now there's a bit of a tussle going on - in the past the FCC mandated "must carry" rules which pretty much stated if a channel was in a cable company's footprint they had to carry them. Dish didn't have this requirement, so since they didn't HAVE to carry them, networks offered the channels for a premium.

As digital transmission gets more and more common local broadcasters are now offering 2 to 5 feeds (SD, HD, All local News, Weather and more) and the FCC is adapting it's rules... Broadcasters want to do away with "must carry" because they feel they can get major $$$ for this feeds since Dish companies pay for them - Cable Companies feel it's an excessive burden given that locals should be able to pick up the channels for free since they are being broadcast. Usually we're willing to bargin, we'll put some money down, but mostly we offer add time in our ad placement or commitments to buy ads on the broadcaster's channel. "Must Carry" for now only applies to one feed - Analog.

So for Broadcast networks, you'll see alot of variance - for example in markets where BELLO controls the local NBC feed, you won't see it on Charter as our lawyers and their laywers have yet to come to terms... (which is really sad as it's been the better part of a year)

With Cable networks, alot of it is based off of what kind of deals we can get and how many markets we have to commit - as well as what the user demand is. Sports carry a pretty good demand and ESPN cut us a decent deal so we've got ESPN HD 1 & 2 in most markets. HD net(s) and Discovery are also major draws. Currently we've added MHD, Universal & TNT HD in this market as well as premium feeds for Showtime, HBO, Starz! & Cinemax (I thought we'd NEVER get the last two and I'm very happy to have them now)

I know as we reach the limit of how much we can push down the line we have to look into new ways of delivery - SDV is one of them as well as going all digital (or as more likely the case, "all Digital" with a basic "analog" simo-cast) - other things in the works are new forms of encryption and compression. I remember reading recently that HBO networks is pushing for a new form of compression that will cut the amount of bandwidth in half. - of course this sort of thing requires new hardware - so I expect development will be at a slow pace - largely because of the investment of new technologies and the addition of new equipment. I know Charter is pushing more and more to make large scale agreements (most Distributors are willing to cut the price per market if we commit to access to more subscribers)

I can't say how many channels we'll be adding (I don't know what's on the horizon) but I know the general consensus is we're ramping up for the next evolution in TV - first it was B&W to Color, then Analog to Digital... now it's going to All Digital and HD...

I can say most markets with VOD should expect to start seeing HD VOD content within the next 6 months to a year if they don't have it already.

CharterJames

08-30-07, 09:12 AM

After a terrible storm several weeks ago, our third Moxi unit in a year died, and the repairman suggested I migrate to their new DVR Unit, Motorola DCH6416, as it is more reliable than the Moxi unit and holds twice the programming. I had a Fantom HDD attached to the Moxi and he thought the USB worked on the new unit, but it does not. Is there any way to access the HDD to copy the programs off of it, through the pc or the new DVR?

Thanks for your help!

To quote Doctor McCoy "It's Dead Jim"

The usb hard drive won't connect to any other Moxi without reformatting and so far I've not seen any evidence of any system having enabled the USB ports on the 6416 (this may even be something that has to be enabled in the box's firmware) for external hard drive usage.

In THEORY - you could pop open the 6416 and put the bare hard drive in - however if you break the box your MSO will probably make you pay a unreturned converter / box replacement fee if they figure out you did it. Furthermore the 6416 would just reformat the drive anyway - and at last check it would repartition it down to 160 gb.

The best and safest way to archive what you want off ANY DVR is to plug it into a DVD recorder or PC Video Capture device (While the DVR is working and active) and play back your recorded program so you can re-record it to either mpeg file or DVD disk...

of course that's limited to SD resolution unless you've got a really good capture device or DVD recorder.

CharterJames

08-30-07, 10:40 AM

I know I've fielded more than a few 6416 questions here - just for those who've still got them or want to keep tabs on them - I've started a DCT/DCH DVR thread for those questions

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=899801

We now return you to your regularly scheduled Moxi discussion

DadCooks

08-30-07, 04:36 PM

CharterJames,

Thanks, for again, providing extremely valuable help to this and now the new 34xx & 64xx thread. You are an example of the fine customer service that all cable folks should aspire to.

CharterJames

08-30-07, 04:55 PM

CharterJames,

Thanks, for again, providing extremely valuable help to this and now the new 34xx & 64xx thread. You are an example of the fine customer service that all cable folks should aspire to.

I do my best :D

markt170

08-30-07, 05:39 PM

MoxiGuy

08-31-07, 06:35 PM

Markt170... please check your private messages.

kelliot

08-31-07, 08:54 PM

Having been one of most loyal Moxi fans for the last three years, I can report after week 3 with DCH 3416 (which replaced my Moxi's) that I made the right decision. Given that TWC has not upgraded the Moxi firmware to 4.1, and shows no other sign of support for Moxi, there's no question that the DCH 3416 works far better than the Moxi, particularly since I was able to program my remote to perform the one button macro: Guide then Favorite, so that the I never have to see a list of channels other than the ones I designated. The retail Moxi better be amazing, quiet, and extremely reliable before I consider dumping the DCH.

TWC would get credibility with regard to its Moxi customer base if they pushed the 4.1 upgrade, not doubt about it. I'm on the edge of going Tivo, but would like to wait for Tivo to go.

I really want the ability to add my own storage so that I don't have to decide what to delete with my recordings.

MrDHG

09-01-07, 01:43 AM

TWC wont.... They killed my Moxi in the Los Angeles area... I got the "there is a problem with your Media Center" message... After two hours of phone support, they scheduled a call (two weeks out) and told me to call next week to see if there was a open slot, or wait.

When I called back they said I could bring it in for a swap to the local service center or wait for my appt... So rather than wait I took it to the service center... They took my Moxi and then told me (only after I surrendered the box through a hole in a bullet proof glass window!) that they are turning off these boxes and there was nothing wrong with it AND that I could only have a 3416, and oh yeah it's BETTER. Well there was nothing wrong with MOXI, except as far as I can tell, except that TWC would have to support some backend server to support the guide, banner, etc...

Well we have had the Moxi for almost 3 years and loved it. So far the 3416 is crap. I can't keyword search, the series recording options blow, I have to see AD'S on every guide screen, I was not provided a user guide ("you can download it")... I could go on and on.

At this point I'm stuck, I can't get the MOXI back, and as far as the 3416 is concerned, I'd switch to my VISTA MEDIA CENTER full time, if I could get all of the channels I pay for...

kelliot

09-01-07, 02:17 AM

Cablecard Moxi might be the best option if it is ever released.

MrDHG

09-01-07, 08:28 PM

Derrick2020

09-02-07, 07:38 PM

You can get a dvi to hdmi cable from monoprice.com for about $10 depending on the length you need.

hazkid

09-02-07, 08:16 PM

SInce the moxi runs Linux, I'm really surprised no one has written a linux program that can access the specific partition type that the Moxi uses, break the protection around it, and transfer the recorded MPEG2 files. From an external HD, of course.

JoePerches

09-03-07, 12:53 AM

I'm really surprised no one has written a linux program that can access the specific partition type that the Moxi uses, break the protection around it, and transfer the recorded MPEG2 files. From an external HD, of course.

I'm not.

I gather you're not an engineer, nor particularly familiar with US laws, nor familiar with cryptofs and similar ilk.

Digeo has every right to design proprietary hardware, use linux, produce a very nice UI, encrypt files, make it difficult to reverse engineer, listen to and follow the wishes of MSOs, and profit from their work. I believe Digeo has complied with the licensing requirements of the GPL. I wish Digeo well.

I suggest you might find MythTV an acceptable alternative to Moxi.
LinuxMCE is a pretty good bundle and might suit you.
Checkout: http://www.linuxmce.com/

B_Maddox

09-03-07, 08:55 PM

kelliot

09-04-07, 02:08 AM

Power down and reboot it is best advice. Charter is probably incrementally pushing updates.

CharterJames

09-04-07, 08:20 AM

So far the 3416 is crap. I can't keyword search, the series recording options blow

Moxi's guide is much more intuitive - I did send you a PM on the 34xx-64xx keyword searching (assuming you're on i-guide) - also on the 34/64 thread I've got some guide links and information.

I hate you didn't get to keep you're moxi and the problem you described is usually resolved here by swapping for another moxi if the customer prefers it. While I have no contacts for TW, I'd definitely advocate complaining to the regional customer service manager

If you can't get customer service to give you a contact name and number for a customer service manager, check your bill and look for a Franchise Authority number - that's usually a division of the County or State Government (I know with IP TV they are pushing to move Franchise Authority from the County level to the State level) which assesses Franchise Fees (which are pretty much taxes on video services) and makes agreements for what an MSO can and can't do (usually bartering the right to operate in an area in exchange for public service channels, local ad time etc)

At either rate, they can and will deal with complaints and most MSOs do tend to jump when the Franchise Authority gets complaints. I would think TW would not simply shut down their Digeo Servers and let their customers slowly figure out they have to swap boxes, then again - I've heard enough cable horror stories to know it *could* happen.

CharterJames

09-04-07, 08:30 AM

At this point I'm stuck, I can't get the MOXI back, and as far as the 3416 is concerned, I'd switch to my VISTA MEDIA CENTER full time, if I could get all of the channels I pay for...

That may not be too far away ... I know ATI has a series of Internal and External units that allow for Video in with CableCARD access. I was kissing up to ATI (even through I'm an nVidia fan myself) hopeing for a demo unit to play with, but alas, as I am not one of the National Lab techs I don't think I'll ever see one till one of my customers get one and the installer calls me up and goes "What the Heck is THIS?!?!?!"

As I understand it, using CableCard with a PC *will* require Vista Media Center as opposed to a MythTV or any other DVR/Media Center Setup

CharterJames

09-04-07, 08:44 AM

Another problem (in The Duluth, MN area)

I was watching Moxi this evening, and at 7:00PM Central, my box suddenly seemed to have lost its program guide. On the Channel List, I'm shown only the name of the channel. I cannot see What's Next, cannot record, and my 'time meter' bar on the bottom of the screen shows time in 2-6 hour segments. My buffer is still working, but that's about it.

I called Charter support, and they could not seem to fix the problem. I have two boxes, and my 'downstairs' box is working fine.

(On a side note, all of my Moxi friends have now received an On Demand option, but not me. Why?)

Help would be great.

Thanks,
Brad

I looked up our previous convo by PM and that second box is still unprovisioned - I've got the one with the DOCSIS ID ending in 7E22 but there is no other box provisioned to your account. Unfortunately you're on the ICOMs billing system (I'm on CSG) so I can't pull up the box information from Billing - but if you email (firstname.lastname@chartercom.com) or PM me your other DOCSIS ID I should be able to get it provisioned for you.

Otherwise, you'll need to call customer service and ask them to provision the second box (they really should have caught this - but then again so many people "forget" to check little things like that.)

Basically you're box ran out of guide data from the last time it was provisioned and connected. - you'll have no guide data till then, and VOD will only work once it's properly provisioned.

CharterJames

09-04-07, 09:03 AM

I'm not.

I gather you're not an engineer, nor particularly familiar with US laws, nor familiar with cryptofs and similar ilk.

Digeo has every right to design proprietary hardware, use linux, produce a very nice UI, encrypt files, make it difficult to reverse engineer, listen to and follow the wishes of MSOs, and profit from their work. I believe Digeo has complied with the licensing requirements of the GPL. I wish Digeo well.

I suggest you might find MythTV an acceptable alternative to Moxi.
LinuxMCE is a pretty good bundle and might suit you.
Checkout: http://www.linuxmce.com/

Very Well Put Joe!

As I pointed out before, Digeo looked to TIVO as a guide in what NOT to do... they did a very good job locking that box down. You are not going to find a MSO approved DVR or commonly availible DVR that supports porting video directly off in Digital format as the MPAA is strongly against this. - So the best (and really only) way to pull programming off a Moxi (or 64xx/34xx) is to set it to 420i SD resolution - plug in an analog capture device (DVD Recorder or Computer with Video input) and record of the DVR while it's playing what you want to archive.

Moxi, Digeo, Motorola, Charter, Time Warner etc etc all have to play by the MPAA's rules if they want access to the media they hold rights to... Just like Napster got bent over by the RIAA.

Open up a MSO's cablebox to mod it and you'll probably not only get caught (and more than likely disconnected) but you'll also get a hefty bill for "replacement" of the box (even if we can undo any damage and continue to use it).

Currently about the only "hack" I've seen for these boxes is swapping out the drive - Which on a Moxi with 4.1 - USB external - you have Digeo's blessing.

On a 6416 / 3416 - don't bother - you're only going to get 160 gigs reguardless of how big the drive is (it repartitions down to 160) and while you can swap out drives like big digital VCR tapes... it's not worth it given you'll probably wind up with a $500+ "converter replacement fee" when the day comes that it has to be swapped or returned. - and neither of these partitions allow for the drive to be read by *any* other equipment other than the box it was formatted on.

It's amazing the TIVO hacks have lasted as long as they have (of course TIVO doesn't have as many direct MPAA ties, so they are more willing to fight... MSOs don't have the luxury if we want to stay in business) and of course now with TIVO's internet download option, I'm sure they've started to lock down their new boxes alot better than the old ones.

If you want control - you really have to build your own - and even then, unless you set up to remote control a cable box or two (older boxes have serial connections for control and many setups include IR blasters for Remote Emulation) you're not going to get the digitals and HDs.