I thought I'd let everyone know that I wrote a script that will create the Net-Tune music database and playlists by using the iTunes SDK. It will create playlists from all the iTunes playlists, including whatever state your smart playlists may be in. So you can have lists for your top rated, recently played, etc... There are a few limitations. iTunes doesn't support WMA, so if your music collection includes WMA files you won't be able to include them in your database without firing up the Net-Tune DB creator. Also, Net-Tune doesn't support AAC so I'm only importing the MP3 files. The Net-Tune software is so poorly written and designed that it makes managing playlists nearly impossible.

If anyone is interested in the script let me know and I'll email it to you. It's a simple javascript, only requires that iTunes is up and running. Nothing else to install.

I'm considering writing plugins for Winamp or Windows Media Player but that's a bit more work. I've been writing Java for that past couple of years and C++ now seems a little daunting. Would be nice if Onkyo would ditch their music managment and write the plugins themselves. :(

This sounds fantastic, except that I use Windows Media Player and WMA8/9 encoded songs! :(

I'd love to have an easier way for Net-Tune to manage music. It's really a very primitive piece of software. I hate having to rerun the Net-Tune database every time I add a new song to my collection. With 1000 songs, it's slow enough, and getting slower every time.

How much work would it be to adapt your script to WMP? Unfortunately, I only have VB and Perl skills... C is a distant college memory now.

Originally posted by bshor
How much work would it be to adapt your script to WMP? Unfortunately, I only have VB and Perl skills... C is a distant college memory now.

I have a friend that's in the same boat that you're in, he has a few Net-Tune devices (he's a dealer) but uses WMP to encode his CD's. So.... I think the WMP plugin is what I'll do next. I'm not much of a COM developer, have been doing Java for a couple of years, and the WMP stuff is all COM. (So is iTunes but Apple did a better job of hiding the nasty details when writing scripts.) I've downloaded the WMP SDK and I have VC6. I'll let you know in a week or two if I'm making any progress.

Time to work on the resume anyways, probably not a bad idea to do a project to kick my mind into gear. :)

Cool! Looking forward to it.

I guess we have little hope of Net-Tune upgrades ...

By the way, I've found out that despite the manual, Net-Tune apparantly accepts very high bit-rate WMA9 files. I've done 300+ kbps, when the manual says you can only do 192kbps.

Originally posted by bshor
By the way, I've found out that despite the manual, Net-Tune apparantly accepts very high bit-rate WMA9 files. I've done 300+ kbps, when the manual says you can only do 192kbps.

Hmmm, I thought I tried high bit rate WMA's and they didn't work. Maybe it's just the highest quality WMA VBR's that wouldn't work.

I have some bad news... I don't think I'll be writing the Windows Media plugin after all. I became so fed up with XP (and Word) that I went out and purchased a G5 PowerMac last week. I may try to write my own Net-Tune server for the Mac, but that's not going to help you out at all.

I'll post here if things change.

I'd like to see the following:

1. Third party software. The Net-Tune software is so basic that I feel bad using it. There are so many things that could be changed with it...
2. The ability to select from different internet radio servers. The server my Onkyo is pointed at offers only very low bandwidth stations, resulting in mediocre to dismal sound.

Originally posted by NVboy
I'd like to see the following:

2. The ability to select from different internet radio servers. The server my Onkyo is pointed at offers only very low bandwidth stations, resulting in mediocre to dismal sound.

Ain't that the truth. This is the route I took. It's not exactly elegant but it works.

-I used a HTTP protocol sniffer to capture the files that are sent and returned to Xiva (the horrible radio service that Onkyo is using).
-I edited the Xiva response file (containing the list of stations) and added my own stations.
-I setup a web server and dns server on my computer.
-On my webserver, I wrote a script that will return my edited xiva response file on any request for radio stations.
-I configured my Onkyo receiver to use my computer as a DNS server. So when it needs to lookup the IP address for www.xiva.com, my DNS server will return the IP address of my computer.

The end result is that my Onkyo receiver will request a list of stations from the Xiva service, my computer intercepts this request and returns my list of stations. At this point I was hoping I could add my stations to the presets on the receiver and take down my web server, dns server, etc. But it's not that simple. Even when the Onkyo receiver accesses it's presets, it makes a request to Xiva. So if my computer is not answering the request I'll get some random station.

This is a lot of trouble and it's not for everyone (or anyone). I don't have a problem with opening up my solution to people here as long as it doesn't get around and cause a huge amount of traffic to my website. That is... if you could run a dns server on your pc so that your xiva requests are rerouted to my mac, then I can maintain a list of radio stations for you. Or you can simply listen to my stations, which I can assure you will be higher than Xiva's 32kbps "high fidelity" stations.

-------------------------------------

Footnote... Actually, I guess you could just point your Onkyo receiver to my computer as a DNS server. So all you would have to do is configure your receiver to point to my computer.

I should also say that I can not offer any assurances as to availibility, my computer may or may not be available when you want to listen to the radio :(

Originally posted by Andrew67
Ain't that the truth. This is the route I took. It's not exactly elegant but it works.

-I used a HTTP protocol sniffer to capture the files that are sent and returned to Xiva (the horrible radio service that Onkyo is using).
-I edited the Xiva response file (containing the list of stations) and added my own stations.
-I setup a web server and dns server on my computer.
-On my webserver, I wrote a script that will return my edited xiva response file on any request for radio stations.
-I configured my Onkyo receiver to use my computer as a DNS server. So when it needs to lookup the IP address for www.xiva.com, my DNS server will return the IP address of my computer.

The end result is that my Onkyo receiver will request a list of stations from the Xiva service, my computer intercepts this request and returns my list of stations. At this point I was hoping I could add my stations to the presets on the receiver and take down my web server, dns server, etc. But it's not that simple. Even when the Onkyo receiver accesses it's presets, it makes a request to Xiva. So if my computer is not answering the request I'll get some random station.

This is a lot of trouble and it's not for everyone (or anyone). I don't have a problem with opening up my solution to people here as long as it doesn't get around and cause a huge amount of traffic to my website. That is... if you could run a dns server on your pc so that your xiva requests are rerouted to my mac, then I can maintain a list of radio stations for you. Or you can simply listen to my stations, which I can assure you will be higher than Xiva's 32kbps "high fidelity" stations.

-------------------------------------

Footnote... Actually, I guess you could just point your Onkyo receiver to my computer as a DNS server. So all you would have to do is configure your receiver to point to my computer.

I should also say that I can not offer any assurances as to availibility, my computer may or may not be available when you want to listen to the radio :(
Interesting approach. I hadn't even thought about faking out the Onkyo via the PC. Hmm, that could be interesting. The gears are turning now. I wonder if there is some way to get into the Onkyo, maybe to some simplistic setup type menu. Thanks for the offer about routing via your Mac, but I don't want to take anyone's resources, plus I don't really use it that often. I'm sure I would if I had better quality stations to listen to though!

I am willing to work with you using Java to make an "OS-X/LINUX" version of the net-tune server if you're up for it...
Kurt

I will pay money for a program to run Net-Tune on my mac...

Can someone please email me the itunes importer script?

Noob here. I just found this topic searching google.
I have a TX-NR801 sitting on my desk less than an hour old and just found out the Net Audio feature is all hype. (Onkyo, PLEASE let me add my own stations. I mean Come ON!) As a mac user with unique tastes in music, this feature is as good as dead.

Is there any chance you can E-Mail that script to me so I can upgrade my expen$ive amp from XiVA's kiddy table to the buffet line that is Internet Radio and iTunes Music. ( ebby2005 at SSBA dot com)

:)

EDIT: In fact, this might be a cool thing to post on macupdate. Others would probably like this too if they knew it existed.

Hi there,

I am having difficulty in establishing network setup for net-tune on an Onkyo TX-NR801. I connected it to my router, saw the green light on the ethernet connection, even did some port forwarding in router settings hoping that it would help but so far no chance :(! I can not even display the internet radio station list. I did not try to play songs from my PC yet. I am using auto DHCP, and the default port 60096 with no proxies.
Thanks in advance for suggestions.

It took me a few times before I could access the database too. I think it is just unreliable. I gave my amp a static IP and that seemed to fix it. (I think the amp has a hard time finding DNS servers) Pick a unused IP address outside your DHCP pool with the last number between 1 and 253. My network uses addresses like 192.168.123.XXX yours may be different. Just substitute yours addresses for mine.

Turn off DHCP and enter something like this...
A:192168123_99 (IP address)
S:255255255__0 (Subnet Mask)
G:192168123254 (Gateway AKA. your router)
1:XXXXXXXXXXXX (DNS server #1 - get this info from your router unless you use the hack above)
2:XXXXXXXXXXXX (DNS server #2 - get this info from your router)

You don't need to use port forwarding because your Amp is not a server. Requests can still leave your network and your router knows and waits for a response. If the router is not expecting a request, it ignores it. That is where port forwarding comes in, forcing the router to listen to requests it wasn't expecting.

The PC software...
Port forwarding won't do anything since the Amp and your computer are both on your LAN. If it is pointing to your PC, you just let users on the internet access to one of your computers. (Specifically your music using that Onkyo software) While I don't think any bad programs would take advantage of this open port, there is still a security issue to think about.

Try pinging your Amp in the command line from your PC. Type "ping 192.168.123.100" (you change the IP address to point to your amp.) If it does communicate, everything is configured correctly on your amp and your computer is the problem. Check for a firewall on your PC. It could be blocking communication.

If Ping fails, double check your settings on the Amp. Most likely they are pooched. :)

Thanks Mr. Spork for the excellent suggestions. The problem was actually resolved by just rebooting the router??. I did not have to define a fixed IP. Now I need to close the port I guess for security reasons. I am using my notebook as a server, which is wirelessly connected to the router by the way (although not recommended) and it really works great. I am so glad that I opted for net-tune feature.

Hako

Hi,

I have an Onkyo TX-NR901 with Net-Tune capabilities. However, I have a Macintosh computer and while I know I can't use it for Net-Tunes per se, am I able to access Internet Radio or am I completely iced out as a Macintosh user? I use Air-Tunes anyway but I'm a curious guy and just kind of want to know. Thanks!

The Net audio feature accesses a database of streams over the net and is independent of your computer or operating system. You can't access the music on your computer from your amp, but you can access internet radio stations.

(I'm a Mac user too and I hope Onkyo works with Apple for some sort of iTunes plugin. Unlikely, but I have my fingers crossed.)

Thanks for the reply I currently use Air-Tunes (Airport Express) and am reasonably happy with it, although sometimes it would be nice to have some Internet Radio options and not have to get my computer fired up, etc.

Initially I connected my Air-Tunes to Net-Tune and was able to see an IP Address but wasn't able to find any radio stations. I really didn't give it much of an effort as I wasn't expecting any of it to work. I'll give it a thorough look with a more hopeful eye and who knows?
I'm not expecting much success, however, as my Airport Express is "talking" to a Netgear Router (which took some hoop jumping in and of itself). Any insight with regard to Firewall manipulation and port forwarding, etc. is greatly appreciated.

I assume your Netgear router is connected to your internet.

You can set up the Airport Express as a bridge to connect wired devices to a wireless network by setting it up as "a WDS remote or relay station". Personally, I would connect the amp directly to the netgear router using a ethernet cable as a temporary solution. Just to make sure it streaming works before adding the wireless factor. (Wireless networks can be finicky and hard to troubleshoot if you make many changes at once.)

Since you do have two routers on your network, make sure one has DHCP turned off (like the Airport express). This can cause conflicts on your network.

You have to worry about port forwarding if you are hosting a server (Game, music, Appletalk/SMB, FTP, Web...) and want people from the internet to access your machine. The Onkyo amp... Well, I'll be damned! The Amp DOES has a web server! It can't do anything, but it is there!

Ahhh, don't worry about it. :cool:

The Onkyo amp... Well, I'll be damned! The Amp DOES has a web server! It can't do anything, but it is there!


Are you being serious? If so, how in the world did you figure that one out?

I did a port scan on my Amp's IP address and port 80 was open. (Used for web pages) I opened my web browser and typed in "h††p://192.168.123.XX" (darn this spam control!) and the amp responded with "H††P /1.0 200 OK". There is no web page or anything, but it responds to a request for a web page which is oh so close! I have a feeling this was used for debugging or else web-based control was buggy and they disabled it. Nonetheless, all kinds of wicked-cool features could be added by a simple firmware upgrade.

I did a port scan on my Amp's IP address and port 80 was open. (Used for web pages) I opened my web browser and typed in "h††p://192.168.123.XX" (darn this spam control!) and the amp responded with "H††P /1.0 200 OK". There is no web page or anything, but it responds to a request for a web page which is oh so close! I have a feeling this was used for debugging or else web-based control was buggy and they disabled it. Nonetheless, all kinds of wicked-cool features could be added by a simple firmware upgrade.

The best thing possible would be to go straight into a menu of sorts, complete with IP pointers for internet radio. I suppose some dumb licensing deal was made though, so I doubt we could gain access to the true guts of our receivers. Still, if you have any luck hacking into the thing, please post your findings here.

I assume your Netgear router is connected to your internet.

You can set up the Airport Express as a bridge to connect wired devices to a wireless network by setting it up as "a WDS remote or relay station". Personally, I would connect the amp directly to the netgear router using a ethernet cable as a temporary solution. Just to make sure it streaming works before adding the wireless factor. (Wireless networks can be finicky and hard to troubleshoot if you make many changes at once.)

Since you do have two routers on your network, make sure one has DHCP turned off (like the Airport express). This can cause conflicts on your network.

You have to worry about port forwarding if you are hosting a server (Game, music, Appletalk/SMB, FTP, Web...) and want people from the internet to access your machine. The Onkyo amp... Well, I'll be damned! The Amp DOES has a web server! It can't do anything, but it is there!

Ahhh, don't worry about it. :cool:

Well, I finally unhooked my receiver and schlepped it into the room where the internet connection and router live. I was able to get the receiver to search and identify various stations. But were they playing? I don't know as I didn't have a pair of headphones at my disposal but the LED readout on the front indicated that things were working.

I'm not sure that I can make it work wirelessly as I don't believe the Airport Express is designed to be a "receiver/distributor" for lack of a better term. It'll take music being piped out of itunes and receive it and send the audio to my receiver. I don't believe it'll communicate with my Netgear router and act as a bridge. There's an ethernet connection on the Airport Express but I think that's for the Internet "in" connection only.

Is an wireless ethernet bridge what I need to make this connection?

I dunno.

Thanks.

jaybee2,

Yes, a wireless ethernet bridge is what you need. I have done it before with a Net-Tune equipped receiver. Worked fine, but YMMV. It depends on many factors.

Eric

If you set the Airport express into "WDS" mode, it should change the ethernet port from a WAN (internet) port to LAN (common network) port. In theory, you should be able to get the amp online without buying anything else.

Like I said before, wireless networks can be a pain to troubleshoot. Best to take it one step at a time.

All my amp displays is Buffering 10% -> 90% than it starts playing. You can push some buttons to get info on the screen like bitrate and format. If you got that, it works.

Greetings. I'd very much like the Mac script Andrew wrote for itunes.

I just received this as a present and do not own a pc.

THank you very much.

dalberts- -at- -aol- -dot- -com

Greetings. I'd very much like the Mac script Andrew wrote for itunes.

I just received this as a present and do not own a pc.

THank you very much.

dalberts- -at- -aol- -dot- -com


I PM'd Andrew, but didn't hear back. I am guessing he has lost the scripts. I was looking for them as well.


W

Andrew has been MIA on AVSForum for about a year now.

Eric

Andrew has been MIA on AVSForum for about a year now.

Eric

He posted about 5 days ago according to a search.

W

I PM'd him too and checked daily until he came back and... nothing.

If ANYONE has the scripts, drop us a line. :cool:

I know I'm new but I'm surprised no one else has cried about the 999 limit on this page yet. Or is it a really simple fix? I can't seem to make sublists in artists/albums/genres etc like it says you can in the manual..
Plus if anyone has the iTunes patch I'd be very grateful!

J

Hello all,
Andrew sent me the script. Can anyone post it if I give it to you? Here is what Andrew sent me. (I have not had time to run it yet, but I suspect it will still work.)

"This is Windows only and it's only purpose is to convert an iTunes library to a Net-Tunes library. It doesn't work on a Mac, and it doesn't replace Net-Tunes. You may need to change a few lines to point to your iTunes and Net-Tunes library. I haven't used this script in a a year or two and have no idea how it works with the last few versions of iTunes. Opening the script with Internet Explorer should be enough to get it to run."

Hello all,
Andrew sent me the script. Can anyone post it if I give it to you? Here is what Andrew sent me. (I have not had time to run it yet, but I suspect it will still work.)

"This is Windows only and it's only purpose is to convert an iTunes library to a Net-Tunes library. It doesn't work on a Mac, and it doesn't replace Net-Tunes. You may need to change a few lines to point to your iTunes and Net-Tunes library. I haven't used this script in a a year or two and have no idea how it works with the last few versions of iTunes. Opening the script with Internet Explorer should be enough to get it to run."
I'LL POST! I'LL POST! I'LL POST!!! :D

Re-Reading the post, I realize what he was talking about was PC only. Woops. hehehe.

send to ebby2005-at-SSBA.com please. :)

Here we go!

Linky Linky! (http://www.ssba.com/lad/NetTuneScript/) <- Link to the script ;)

Not sure what the .htm file is but I'll include it anyways.

I should probably start a new topic but this one matches at least.

First of all I can get my Integra DTR-7.3 to connect either to the web or my server. I've tried everything I can think of except running my own DNS/web server. I will try that I someone can send me a copy of the xml returned from XiVA. Does anyone have this? I have tried both DHCP and static, two different routers, firewall and virus turned off, reset to factory defaults and start over. Nothing works, I get a message for mServer "no track" and for Radio it says "connecting..." and tuned flashes and then "not connect". Getting frustrated!

Also, it definetly has a webserver.
I tried to paste the returned xml called audioDeviceDesc.xml in but the board doesn't like that even after I removed the links. If anyone wants to see that Ican post five times and then try again. Please help if you can send a copy of the returned xml from XiVA or if you have any other suggestions.

Hmmm, I thought I tried high bit rate WMA's and they didn't work. Maybe it's just the highest quality WMA VBR's that wouldn't work.

I have some bad news... I don't think I'll be writing the Windows Media plugin after all. I became so fed up with XP (and Word) that I went out and purchased a G5 PowerMac last week. I may try to write my own Net-Tune server for the Mac, but that's not going to help you out at all.

I'll post here if things change.

I might want to read the whole thread before responding, but...

I've been talking about and thinking about and just not "doin' it" on a project that could be java based. I wanted to create a generic media server that supported a plug-in architecture so that the streamer could support any device as long as there was a plug in for that. The configuration files for the different players would include supported formats so that unsupported formats could be supported with on the fly transcoding. Let the PC do all the work, for audio the simpliest support would be do convert almost everything to PCM and stream that. You only have to do a decode to get audio out to any device in PCM. Anyway the plug in would just need to handle the communication and the streamer would handle the conversios and lists and what not.

Currently I've got the folowing server software running on my media server:
DVArchive (replayTV)
JavaHMO (tivo)
Net-Tunes (Onkyo)
Kenwood's Media Server (kenwood)
and one other that I'm spacing on at the moment... but I'd like to have Toshiba's networked DVD recorder as part of my setup! =)

Anyway that's a lot of apps that all do the exact same thing, so I'd like to consolidate them.

You could even support any streaming from any source just real-time decoded to a PCM stream that the streamer sends as a shoutcast stream or whatever. It's all sounds so simple...

I'm not a good java programmer or any OOP. I'm an embedded software guy with the skills on the low level stuff. THe only thing keeping me from doing this is that I've been mr. mom for the last few years and almost all my free time is spent on the kids. I'd like to get a push to work on a project like this, and I'm willing to work with others!!!

Wouldn't it be great for your net-tunes receiver to be able to play any auido format local or streamed that the PC can decode? I had thought this would be something in the works after looking at the configuration files for nettunes, but that's still not something that's happened. I hear net-tunes is a high priority with onkyo japan, but it doesn't really look like that's true.

I'm not a software programmer. I don't even play one on tv. I did however do a lot of searching around on the net-tune c-rap and did find some download links from XiVA. They have a XiVA Link SDK availible on their site with a lot of documentation. I don't know if this information can be used by programmers to create better apps instead of net-tune. I'll provide the link in the fourth follow-up message.

Does anyone know the exact url that the net-tune receivers connect to? If I go to xiva-net.com I get their home page. The xml is what I am interested in.

post 4

post 5

Here is the link to the downloads. Let me know if this is useful or not.
http://www.xiva.com/xivawebhtml/xivamain.html

I am playing with a wireless access point to the Onkyo; got a Linksys WGA54g gameport which pretends to be an RJ45 jack in the wall.

I hardcoded the IP address (192.168.0.8), server (192.168.0.1), DNS servers (45.x.x.x;etc.) into the Onkyo.

I can ping it.

Yet it wont find the Net-Tune server; I have not tried it with a cable yet... could it be that the protocol gets clipped by the wireless? the Net-tune server is running on an ME machine, no firewall there.

Dirk

Your wireless AP could filter out specific protocols but usually lets everything through by default. It may be a good idea to have a second DNS server listed as a backup just in case it is a DNS problem.

On a side note, I found this project: http://sourceforge.net/projects/gnutune While it seems cool, it has not really gone anywhere. This could likely bring a Net-Tune like program to Mac or even integration with iTunes.

Go ambitious developer! :D

This looks like the best place to post my net-tune question.

I have an RDC 7.1 with a net tune card. I have converted me CD collection to MP3 via EAC using the LAME encoder at 320 kBits/s. I have my system hard wired to my computer and have been generally pleased with the results. Does anyone know what the highest quality compressed format Net-Tune will handle? It is my understanding that it will not play wma files ripped with Windows Media Player 10 and I have no wish to switch to Windows Media 9.

Unfortunately, it appears that Onkyo will not be updating net-tune any further which is a shame because the device shows such huge potential. Does anyone know of any other audio only digital media devices with an on screen display? I have my system installed in a closet behind my couch and have to see the device's display on screen. I have a ROKU HD1000 and while it is adequate for viewing slide shows, I will not rely on it for audio. I understand that it will play more file types and bit rates but it is cumbersome to operate and is far from stable. I presume that other multi use devices suffer from similar faults and as a result, I am only interested in audio only devices.

Thanks in advance.

ArtV

I would love to get a copy of your itunes script. In this day and age it is amazing that Onkyo thinks they can get away with such a poor product.

please email a copy

Thanks

I see in the thread that people reference the script being posted but for the life of me I cannot find it. Can some one point at where to get this? Thanks CW

MrSpork has linked it above. The link is called "Linky Linky".

Sorry 'bout the confusion. I added a little description. :)

Does anyone know how to get a hold of Andrew67
I am interested in the method he described to add your own stations by bypassing the Nettune server. I need at least the xml scripts and any other programs needed to set this up.

I know his email address is in the comments portion of the iTunes java script he wrote. I think it would be uncool to post it though. If you get a response and the xml please post that.

I just emailed him and I'll post if I find anything out.

hello all...quick question, does anybody know to actually import iTunes to Net-Tunes? I have the java script that Andrew wrote & I have no idea what to do w/it...any help would be appreciated...thanks...

Just found this thread, I am glad that there is some interest in creating an alternative to Net-Tune. If anyone from Onkyo/Integra is listening, Net-Tune is one of the main reasons why I went with Integra over some other products. I have become so frustrated with Net-Tune playlists and lack of functionality that I am ready to drop the whole deal. I may replace my current setup with another brand (Though the DTR-10.5 is intriguing) and get some other hardware based player with a digital out to a receiver. I bought my receiver two years ago, and the only software update was so bad that I actually uninstalled it and stuck with the older version of Net-Tune. I won't rant further though I really could. I will watch here to see if anyone comes up with a new solution. I would pay for an alternative that supports FLAC.

when I attempt to run Andrew's iTunes-Net-Tunes script (i've tried moving the file to different places w/no success) I just get the same error message each time...can anybody drop some knowledge on me? it's driving me insane :mad:

Make sure you change the variable NETTUNE_HOME to the correct path of your nettune installation.
i.e. var NETTUNE_HOME = "C:\\program files\\ONKYO\\Net-Tune Central\\";

But I haven't figured out how to get it to create playlists yet.

Oh, also I never got a reply from Andrew after emailing him.

Well unless I'm mistaken the script seems not to work with NetTune 2.0, maybe it worked with the previous version but I don't have that version. It does create all the m3u playlists and places them in the nettune directory but I can't get the program to recognise the playlists. Nettune overwrites the audio.tsv and m3ulist.tsv everytime you restart it and creates it's m3u filenames based on a timestamp of sort i.e. 4394947Bab.m3u. You can't rename the iTunes.m3u files to the Nettune generated ones because they are loaded in memory and they will be overwritten with the original content when the server restarts.

Lame does not do enough to describe this app.

Does anyone have the previous version of nettune available? If so will you email it to me? gscottbartlett at hotmail dot com

Thanks

I went to the link referenced by MrSpork. But it seems like the site may no longer be hosting the file for GnuTune. I was wondering if anybody has a copy of it, would they please send it. I'm sick and tired of Nettune software. I was also wondering about the script andrew wrote and if anyone has that i would like a copy of that as well.

Thanx in advance.

What? It's always been up. AFAIK.

I'll host an alternate on my personal computer though. I usually have it on 24/7, but no guaranntees.

Linky #2 (http://sporknet.game-server.cc/~web/CreateNetTuneLibrary.js.zip) <- Alternate download

Thanx for the link Mr.Spork. Did you get a chance to use GnuTune? if so how was it.

No. I use a Mac, so it won't work for me.

I upgraded my PC some 6 months ago & haven't had the chance to configure or use NetTunes since then. I had to rewire the house last month because of an upcoming new carpet install (had to run everything through the walls & install a bunch of new work outlet boxes). Anyway, all the cables are tested & good. I've installed NetTunes 2, as I had used that successfully previously. Windows firewall is disabled. My 801 will pull up all the DHCP settings correctly & find my server. I can ping the receiver with no errors. My problem is that every station I try to connect with won't connect. Once in a while, one station will connect, but when I change to another station, then go back to the one that worked, it will no longer connect. The receiver won't connect whatsoever with my NetTunes server (it just says "disconnected"). Any ideas? Anyone?

Hmmm... I would guess it may be a DNS issue, but my gut says it is just crummy service. My 801 gets about 3 stations all using 30K WMP. (AH! My ears bleed!) The fact that the NetTunes server worked before your rewiring job leads me to think something is bonkers with your network. Though rare, you may want to restart every device/router at the same time to clear and rebuild the router tables. Long shot, but I had that happen before on my LAN. But that ping...

That's why I'm looking into a Soundbridge (http://www.rokulabs.com/products/soundbridge/index.php) :rolleyes:

I've sent a PM to Andrew67, but perhaps somebody else here knows the answer to my questions: what protocol is used to communicate to Xiva, and what protocol does the receiver use to stream data from the net radio station once connected? If I knew this I could spoof my 901 to see my Mac as the source of a radio station (or perhaps multiple ones... like one per playlist) and write some Mac software to convert from the iTunes library to the stream format needed by the Onkyo (if the transcoding used by the Airport Express can be used directly through CoreAudio, that is -- I haven't checked that yet since figuring out the Onkyo's protocol's seems harder).

I think everything is done over the web, so that would be port 80. Both communication and streaming. If you use the NetTunes server, the port is likely different since that would be Onkyo's own interface. IIR, it is like 9000 or something like that.

I'm struggling with the same problem, but can't seem to post what my inquiry to the address of the receiver is, as this thread seems to block any mention of addresses or "image calls," whatever that is.
Any suggestions? I'd be appreciative.

It is some kind of anti-spam protection. You have to post 5 times before you can use links.

I don't suppose anyone knows why Andrew67 was messing around with DNS spoofing when the Onkyo supports the use of a Proxy server? I've been trying to work out how to do the DNS thing, but a friend of mine suggested just making my Mac the proxy server so that the Onkyo sends the requests to (through) it.

Now I just have to figure out how to capture the stream that comes back from XiVA.

I don't suppose anyone knows why Andrew67 was messing around with DNS spoofing when the Onkyo supports the use of a Proxy server? I've been trying to work out how to do the DNS thing, but a friend of mine suggested just making my Mac the proxy server so that the Onkyo sends the requests to (through) it.

Now I just have to figure out how to capture the stream that comes back from XiVA.

Forget that, interpreting the stream before it ever leaves the PC would be better. Shoot it out to a REAL radio server. There must be a way! Surely some kind of alternate solution can be found. Has anyone tried decompiling the nettunes software? Or at least just sniffing it via less extreme means?

All of my problems I recently posted about are gone. Simply put, the internet radio server sucks big time. Rarely will anything get tuned. I had thought I had a problem with my network or hardware, but it was the crappy server all the time.

The receiver won't connect whatsoever with my NetTunes server (it just says "disconnected"). Any ideas? Anyone?

This was a combination of poor documentation and stupidity on my part. I kept seeing my computer's name on the screen, but with no asterisk next to it. I then realized I have to use the arrow keys from there to see my actual PC on the screen. The manual is horrible, but I believe it actually displays on screen that you need to use the arrow keys to select the server. I was just using the wrong arrow keys & it would never be selected.

Forget that, interpreting the stream before it ever leaves the PC would be better. Shoot it out to a REAL radio server. There must be a way! Surely some kind of alternate solution can be found. Has anyone tried decompiling the nettunes software? Or at least just sniffing it via less extreme means?

I used a sniffer on the NetTunes PC protocol and it is sufficiently complex that reverse engineering it isn't worth (my) effort. If anybody can pry a protocol description out of Onkyo, I could code that up but otherwise making the Mac look like the XiVA site and a set of radio stations (I'm thinking one per playlist) is probably a lot easier. Probably.

All of my problems I recently posted about are gone. Simply put, the internet radio server sucks big time. Rarely will anything get tuned. I had thought I had a problem with my network or hardware, but it was the crappy server all the time.

That is similar to my experience -- if you get a good server and connection it works fine, but that is a rare combination. There doesn't seem to be anything inherently wrong with the protocol, however, which is why I'm hopeful to use it.

Has anyone complained to Onkyo about the poor performance of the internet radio server? If they would simply let us choose our own server, life would be wonderful. But, I'm sure they have some idiotic licensing agreement which extends throughout any of the future NetTune enabled products.

I just sent them a short email, but do not expect a response. They have a tiny little box to type a message in, so I just tried to keep it short:

Over 90% of the stations listed using the NetTune internet radio server will not connect. In other words, it has been a wasted feature. Are there any updates planned to allow owners to select the internet radio servers/stations manually? If not, are there any plans to make the company who provides the server fully aware that it essentially does not work? I bought my receiver specifically because of the internet radio ability, but it has only turned out to be a wasted purchase. I know quite a few other people who feel the same way, so if you need a list of unhappy purchasers (names, addresses, model #, etc.), I will be happy to provide it in the hopes that something can be resolved. Thank you for your time & please let me know if a solution is forthcoming.

They also list the U.S. contact info. I wonder if it would be worth it to put together a letter to them, as a joint effort between all of us who own NetTune products? I'm sure more people would get involved if I posted something about it on the receivers forum.

I sent them a similar note several days ago, with no reply yet. Word is there is a 3.0 version in Japan, but the Onkyo tech support person was most unhelpful. I don't read Japanese, but it may be on their asian site, if anyone can read it. I support the idea of generating a wave of complaints to Onkyo to both improve the product and release the programming as open source, so someone with the skills [not me, for sure] can improve the product. It is damn frustrating to have a top of the line receiver that is hobbled by a) being unable to access real internet stations at the request of the operator, and b) being unable to receive audio streams directed at it from some internet source, using one of the more common file formats or codecs.

I get the feeling Onkyo is trying to protect themselves from powerful groups like the Recording Industry Association of America and others around the world. Including a unrestricted internet radio player could open a door for Onkyo to be sued for allowing or supporting "copyright infringement." Although mostly BS, having a 3rd party company, such as XIVA, responsible for choosing acceptable programming is more of a safety tactic than a business opportunity. XIVA, not Onkyo, would take the blow from the RIAA if they should become even more greedy.

Why wouldn't one be able to use something like slimserver software to direct any internet or mp3 etc. data to the Onkyo?
I agree they may be hiding things for liability purposes, but, come on, we're not talking about digital streaming of original materials, are we? There are already hacks for that if you want to open yourself up to that liability.

I purchased an Onkyo NR801 and have been frustrated with the Net-Tune feature. I think it has great potential, but it would be nice if more than a handfull of stations worked. Today I got a hold of an Onkyo Tech. and of course the finger was pointed at XIVA, who according to Onkyo is giving them the run around stating that their upgrading the system. I was told that a Net-Tune Central Ver. 3 (already out in Japan) will be available in the Spring in the US. It will allow the user to enter in their own stations. As for any other major changes we'll have to wait and see....

SWEET! That is nice to know.

Hi There,

I've connected the receiver NR901 with the computer server (net tune). I managed to have them communicate to each other, and I can see the list of songs in my 901. However, I can not even chose (or click) on any of the songs.

I experienced the same thing when I tried the Internet Radio.

Anybody knows what to do? Thank you!

Are you using the original remote?
I had the same problem when I was using my Harmony remote until I managed to get it programmed right. The up/down/fwd/bk and select buttons are different when the remote is in NetA mode. And the buttons on the front panel don't control those functions you must use the remote.
I hope this helps.

Word is there is a 3.0 version in Japan, but the Onkyo tech support person was most unhelpful. I don't read Japanese, but it may be on their asian site, if anyone can read it.

There is a new net-tune device in Japan called NC-501V which not only supports digital audio (MP3/WMA/WAV/Dolby AC3), but also digital video (MPEG1/MPEG2/MPEG4 ASP) and photo (JPEG). It has Toslink digital audio output and a Japanese spec. D4 video output for 1080i resolution!

The above mentioned Net-Tune Central ver.3.0 (ver.3.3 to be eaxt) software is only intended to be used by NC-501V as far as I know ...

You can go directly to Onkyo Japan webpage to read the product brief and download the user manuals for both NC-501V and Net-Tune Central ver.3.3. I found no path yet to download this software even though I have successfully registered in the Japan page. Just curious whether the software works with my audio only net-tune (an Integra pre-amp).

There is a new net-tune device in Japan called NC-501V which not only supports digital audio (MP3/WMA/WAV/Dolby AC3), but also digital video (MPEG1/MPEG2/MPEG4 ASP) and photo (JPEG). It has Toslink digital audio output and a Japanese spec. D4 video output for 1080i resolution!

The above mentioned Net-Tune Central ver.3.0 (ver.3.3 to be eaxt) software is only intended to be used by NC-501V as far as I know ...

You can go directly to Onkyo Japan webpage to read the product brief and download the user manuals for both NC-501V and Net-Tune Central ver.3.3. I found no path yet to download this software even though I have successfully registered in the Japan page. Just curious whether the software works with my audio only net-tune (an Integra pre-amp).

I figured it was too good to be true. I almost fell out of my chair when I saw that we would be able to select our own server in 3.x. That would make soooo many people happy. Please keep us posted if you come across a software link and/or further info.

Like Net-Tune central here in the US, the Japan site asks for a serial number. I didn't try to input mine as I have an integra unit. The download site is here (guess you have to private mail me, won't allow me to post URLs, not enough posts :rolleyes: )


At the very bottom of the page is a button which when clicked opens a new
window giving you 3 choices. One is a full questionaire with name, address, etc.
one is username/password, and the last is where they ask for a serial number.

I'm not sure what the other information requested is, since I don't read Japanese.
But I suspect you won't be able to get Net-Tune Central 3.3 from a simple download.
As was said, it looks like it is only for the NC-501V product based on the FAQ. Again,
private mail me, can't post URLs.

ahh, make 3-4 quick spam posts. That way the anti-spam code won't stop you and you can post the link.
It is for a good cause so I don't think anyone will mind. :D

I found a "feature" that dosent seem to to be documented anywhere.... The receiver seems to have a "Wake On Lan" feature (Network Settings -> Client Setup ->Wake On Lan , make sure that you have enabled "Advanced Setup" menu option to see this). I set this to "On", saved the settings and powered it off hoping to bring it to life by sending the magic packet using one of those free tools, but that didn't work out :( When you activate this feature, the power LED keeps blinking while the unit is turned off. I then tried to turn it ON by using the power button on the front of the receiver - to my horror, it just wouldn't come back on. I started punching in all buttons and their combinations, and to my surprise, I discovered a (secret) key combination that brings up some hidden menu options not visible otherwise - While the receiver is in "Wake On LAN" mode, press and hold the power button and simultaneously press the "net audio" button on the front panel for a couple of seconds. This brings up a menu showing "F/W update", "mServer" and "port #" options - it seems like this menu option is used to update firmware on the 801 receiver - which is a good thing, except that I ccouldn't find any firmware updates for this receiver. Anyways, this didn't solve my problem and the receiver just refused to power back on. I then unplugged and plugged the receiver - still nothing. Out of frustration, I hit the power button several times (7 times to be precise) in quick succession and then it came back on just fine. I don't know how helpful this info is going to be to anyone, but I thought I'd share it nevertheless...

I made some progress obtaining the XML response form XIVA and I'd like to post the URL's but the anti-spam feature wouldnt allow me the post the URL's.... Looks like I'm gonna have to make some spam posts for a good cause... hope the admins dont get upset over this...

I managed to nagivate around the Japanese site a bit using google translate tool... but couldnt download the new net-ture as it wont accept my receiver's serial # as it accepting far fewer digits for serial # that on the back of my receiver - if someone manages to download the new net-ture, please do share it with others...

blah 4

blah 5 - sorry about this folks... hope nobody will mind...

Alright, here's how to get the XML response form Xiva... these are being used by my 801...

To get a list of available stations:
http://portal05.xiva-net.com/services/irds.jsp?Format=audio/x-scpls%20audio/x-mpegurl%20application/vnd.ms-asf&Location=AE

OR just

http://portal05.xiva-net.com/services/irds.jsp

To get a list of available stations at a particular location:
http://portal05.xiva-net.com/~prullman/irds.jsp?Format=audio/x-scpls%20audio/x-mpegurl%20application/vnd.ms-asf&Location=AE

I also noticed that while I could not play some stations (ex Al Arabiya 98.9, URL:
http://asx.abacast.com/arabian_radio-alarabiya-24.asx) using the receiver, I could play
the same through windows media player; So its possible that the receiver is not able
to play some formats - not absolutely sure about it though.

Will post more information if I can get it to tune in to my own stations...

I did it... I'll be posting a detailed write up very soon, but basically I used a proxy server and intercepted & modified the search resuts before sending the response back to the receiver. The modified response has the necessory information required for the receiver to tune in to a station of your choice.

I suppose even Mac/Linux/other os users may be able to use this technique to stream their favourite radio stations to their receiver...

How to play custom radio stations on your Onkyo network receiver. You may use the instructions detailed here to play internet radio stations of your choice on your network capable onkyo receiver.

For this recipe, we will add our own "MyFavourites" menu item under "Genres" and add two new stations under it

Preparationtion time : 30-45 mins

You will need (Ingredients):
1 Onkyo network receiver
1 Privoxy proxy server (get a copy for your OS here: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=11118 )
1 Operating system supported by Privoxy (Many popularular OS's are supported)
1 web server supported by your OS - not absolutely necessary, but most likely you will end up needing one (I'll tell you why later)

Method:
1 Take one (fresh) copy of Privoxy and install it on your computer. Follow setps in the Privoxy documentation to do the following:
1.1 Configure it to accept connections from your receiver (read network)
Windows users: right click on the Privoxy icon in the system tray, choose Edit -> Main Configuration, navigate to the line which reads
listen-address 127.0.0.1:8118
and replace 127.0.0.1 with the IP assigned to your computer. For example, change
listen-address 127.0.0.1:8118
to
listen-address 192.168.0.5:8118

- presuming the the IP address of your computer is 192.168.0.5. Essentially, we are only asking Privoxy to accept connections from other computers/devices on your network.
1.2 Configure the proxy settings on your receiver to use Privoxy
In your receivers Proxy Settings, enter the IP address of the computer on which Privoxy was installed. Enter port # as 8118 unless you changed it in step 1.1 Remember to save your settings before exiting the Network Settings menu.
At this point, you should still be able to browse and play the radio stations which worked prior to using the proxy server

2 Modify the XML response from Xiva to add our own menu items and stations
2.1 Right click on privoxy icon in the systray, choose Edit -> Filters. Add the following two filters (just paste the following code for now).

Remember to save the file after modifying it.

FILTER: AddMyGenre
s/<Genres>/<Genres><Genre code="99.000" type="genre"><Name language="en">MyFavourites<\/Name><\/Genre>/ig


FILTER: AddMyFavouriteStations
s/<\/IRStationList>/<IRStation><ID>1<\/ID><Name reliability="50">Radio Masala 128<\/Name><Genre code="99.000"\/><Location country="CS" location="CS" region="8053"\/><Language\/><URL MIME="audio\/x-scpls">http:\/\/192.168.0.5\/webapplication1\/RadioMalasa.pls<\/URL><\/IRStation><IRStation><ID>2<\/ID><Name reliability="50">DesiSounds<\/Name><Genre code="99.000"\/><Location country="CS" location="CS" region="8053"\/><Language\/><URL MIME="audio\/x-scpls">http:\/\/192.168.0.5\/webapplication1\/DesiSounds.pls<\/URL><\/IRStation><\/IRStationList>/ig
The purpose of AddMyGenre is to add a new Genre to the list obtained from Xiva. For us, its just a way to add a new menu item under which we can group all our custom radio stations. AddMyFavouriteStations filter will add the information of the stations we wish to add. To add more stations, you can add more <IRStation>...</IRStation> tags (and when you do so, be sure to escape the XML, especially the '/' character with the escape character '\' as I have done here.) For the time being you can use the code shown above to first make sure that you can play your own custom stations. Basically, we are just doing a "search & replace" (using regular expressions) on the XML received from Xiva. For more details on using filters, see the Privoxy documentation.

Once you have added the filters, you need to make sure that these are applied only to the appropriate URL's. For this, Right click on Privoxy icon in the system tray, choose Edit -> User Actions. Add the following lines of code to the very bottom of the file and save the file

{ +filter{AddMyGenre} }
/.*IRDS\/irds.jsp.*

{ +filter{AddMyFavouriteStations} }
/.*Genre=99.000

The first filter will add our Genre (just a new menu item for us) when irds.jsp is requested by the receiver. The second filter will ensure that our stations show up only when Genre code 99 is requested (our custom Genre code)

To ensure that the changes made by you are working OK, configure your browser (firefox ?) to use the Privoxy proxy server - (remember that Privoxy is configured to run on port 8118 by default unless you changed it in step 1.1 above. Access the URL
http://portal05.xiva-net.com/~prullman/irds.jsp

You should now see a new Genre with the name "MyFavourites".

Then access the URL
http://portal05.xiva-net.com/~prullman/irds.jsp?Format=audio/x-scpls%20audio/x-mpegurl%20application/vnd.ms-asf&Genre=99.000

You should now see XML with two radio stations "Radio Masala 128" and "Desi Sounds"

Verify the same on your receiver as well... Navigate to Genres -> MyFavourites -> Miscellaneous -> (our two stations) Its not going to play em yet, but you should at least be able to see the two items.

3. The web server.
It seems that my receiver does not recognize playlists in the m3u format and the server from which I am streaming only has playlists in the m3u format. So, I got the URL from the .m3u file and saved the same as .pls files which the receiver recognizes. Basically, you just need to create two files RadioMalasa.pls and DesiSounds.pls with their contents as shown below.

RadioMalasa.pls:
[playlist]
NumberOfEntries=1
File1=http://213.251.129.40:80
Title1=Radio Masala
Length1=-1

DesiSounds.pls:
[playlist]
NumberOfEntries=1
File1=http://desisoundz.com:8000
Title1=Desi Sounds
Length1=-1

Create a virtual folder in your web server called "WebApplication1" and save the above two files in the physical path pointed to by the virtual folder "WebApplication1" If you would like to create a virtual folder with a different name, make sure that you provide the appropriate path in the XML used in FILTER: AddMyFavouriteStations section above

Some radio stations contain multiple entries in their playlists, but the receiver recognizes only the first entry - in such cases too, you would want to create multiple playlists files and host it on your web server as done here.

Thats it... you should now be able to play and taste the new stations we added. You might have to restart your receiver for it to recognize the new stations. Mmmmm.... yummy.

To add your own stations:
1. Create appropriate .pls file and host it on your web server.
2. add more <IRStation>...</IRStation> tags to FILTER: AddMyFavouriteStations (remember to escape the characters properly)

enjoy... !

PS1: If you do not wish to go the web server way, you can use Privoxy to replace the URL from an existing station with the one of your choice.
PS2: The receiver does not use Nettune to play internet radio stations in any way... so users of other OS's should also be able to play internet radio stations as long has they have Privoxy or a similar tool. I'm sure they will be able to customize this technique to suit their needs - like presenting the receiver with the XML with your favorite stations using a server script without bothering to go to the Xiva portal as we are doing here.
PS3: NVBoy... fasten you seat belt this time... I don't want you to fall off your chair and get hurt :))
PS4: Where is that gentlemen who offered money to be able to play stations of your choice ?
PS5: Its been a long day and I'm tired... please excuse any spelling/grammatical/technical errors. Hope I have not missed any important detail here. Suggestions/comments/criticism are welcome.

ebirbal - Do you have to US or Europe model of the 801?

I have tried to use the Wake on LAN feature for ever but nothing has ever flashed. My US Receiver sits in standby mode all the time while I think the European model has a real OFF button.

Interesting discovery about the key combinations tough. I must find more...

As for the Proxy server... You use the Amp's IP address for the Listen-address?
For some reason I can only use my own computer's address not my amp's.
If:
Computer: 192.168.123.100
Amplifier: 192.168.123.200

The .200 address gives me an error but the .100 doesn't. Admittedly, I did not read the manual yet since I am SUPPOSED to be doing homework now. Your post was just too cool and I just had to give this a quick test. :cool:

My bad, MrSpork - you need to enter the IP of your computer and not the IP of your amp. Thanks for pointing this out. I've corrected the original post.

As for the amp, its a US model purchased sometime in August 2004. The power LED blinks only when the wake on lan is turned on and you put the amp in standby mode.

Hi I'm using Nettune V1.10, and am having trouble importing songs to Nettune with Italian and japanese names. They come up as "No Title" and won't play. Any help appreciated. Sorry if this is in the wrong spot.

ebirbal....so when are you going to be in the New Jersey area? I'm totally confused. I knew I should have studied computers in college! I'm dying to stream music to my Onkyo, but your instructions might as well be in Japanese. Thanks for the effort though! Now, if I can just find an IT guy to get this to work.

I've purchased Integra DTR-7.4 a year and half ago and Nettune/Internet Radio feature was one of the important consideration. I have no problems playing my encoded CDs (GUI is bad, but I can live with that) .

However, their Internet Radio supplied by Xiva looks like not just bad service, but sort of hoax.

I had no problem in connecting to it using D-Link 624 router., but the list of stations they supply is ridicolous. They claims "hundreds of station" - indeed hundresds are listed but they don't work. I has done regular checking and it's not the situation they off air, they NEVER connects, even when I can play them on computer.

I called Customer Service of Imerge corporation in England 4 months ago (they developed XIVA) and asked what's happened they told me it's Onkyo/Integra problem (to the credit of Imerge/Xiva they at least reachable by phone) and I should expect improvement in a month or so when Onkyo/Integra supplies them with new software, nothing happens since then - from vast number of station listed only few
are available. NEVER I was able to see meaningful song/artist/ information on display

On Xiva website there is a link which supposed to lead to Xiva Internet Radio portal where the list of station and corresponded info is available - this link leads nowhere (I asked about it. the cheerful folk from other side of tlantic answered "yee, we removed it a while ago" and "no plan to renew")

Part of the pay for DTR-7.4 included the Internet Raio service and my impression Integar/Onkyo and/or Imerge/Xiva has been cheating customers shamelessly.

Any thougts what's possible to do (of course I also e-mailed both Imerge and Integra with no answer). Tried to reach Integra Custome Service by phone and gave up after more then hour of waiting

IMHO, its Onkyo that entirely at fault. It was Onkyo's decision to partner with Xiva and and it was Onkyo who got the money from me when I purchased their product, and so its Onkyo's job entirely to sort things out with Xiva (IF Xiva is at fault, that is.)

To draw and analogy, if Onkyo ships a product with a faulty capacitor, they cannot absolve themselves of all responsibility by pointing fingers at the company who manufactured the faulty capacitor.

On top of that, its the receiver that is not able to play streams, even though they are are actually being streamed just fine from Xiva. I've made a post in this thread with one such example where my receiver was not able to play a stream which Windows Media Player was able to play just fine. You can test this for yourself, buy getting the URL's of the various stations using the links I've given in my previous posts. In particular, the receiver has trouble playing many WMA streams. I even tried streaming from my own computer in different WMA formats, but the receiver simply displays "no connect". I have tried at least a dozen different stations streaming WMA but it wouldn't play any of them :mad: ... on the other hand, it handled ALL Mp3 streams very well.

I'll make a post in the NR1000 owners forum to check if they can play WMA streams as the NR1000's have an updated firmware.

Its a pity they chose not to let users play their own stations as the receivers are capable of playing custom radio stations.

Oykno, I'm sorry I couldnt make my post more easier for everyone... I know its too "technical" and given the fact that I am not a native English speaker, it just makes things worse. Let me assure you though that its really quiet easy to set up your system. Its just the language in my post that makes it appear confusing and difficult... and I'm sorry for that. If you can use these forums, you are technically qualified to do it! I'm sure, you should be able to set up your system with ease.

I can guide you step by step in getting this set up for you and perhaps you can help me rephrase my post to make it easier for others to set up their systems play their favourite stations...

Hi Ebirbal !

I do agree that it's Onkyo problem and I think they took a calculated risc by providing absolutely unadequate service and counting that nobody complain and looks like they were right.

I am going to write them additional letter describing Internet Radio problems with warning that in case of no answer I'll send this letter to a number of forums, hi-fi magazines and review sites which published reviews about their Nettune enabled products - DTRs and NACs as well as filing complain with BBB regarding "truth in advertisement"

I have no illusion regarding results, but if other people do the same maybe it changes something.

Thanks for publishing instruvtions how to add station using privoxy server, I've installed it and over weekend I try to add few stations.

BTW, I tried to use it with firefox to check if it is installed OK and found out it slows web access down (not a lot but you don't need a stopper watch to feel it) Well, I have 650Mghz ell laptop, may be on new machines it will be OK

t246,

Privoxy was actually developed to sanitise web pages by stripping annoying popups, ad banners, javascripts, word filters and such... thats the reason it appears to slow things down as the html goes through several fiters before it actually reaches the browser. However, you need not use it for your regular browsing. The only time Privoxy will be used is when the amp queries the Xiva portal to search for radio stations which occurs over HTTP. The streaming of actual audio also does not take place through the proxy. The way I use it is, I manually fire it up whenever I want to play internet radio though my receiver. My browser is not configured to use Privoxy for normal browsing. The only time I configure my browser to use Privoxy is when I want to check the Xiva response for debugging. Maybe you can do the same too.

If you are very particular about the speed, you can edit the various config files and remove all (unnecessary) filters as they are all user configurable - hopefully that will speed things up a bit.

Ebirbal: I am going to try your solution vis-a-vis adding internet stations. Could this also be applied to stream either a cd playing on my computer or a windows media/real player stream to go to the receiver? Thanks for your help on this.

You would have to host a streaming server on your computer that has access to your CD or WMV files and add your computer's IP address instead of the Internet radio station. (There are plenty of free ones out there.) You still won't get control over your CD player like pause/skip but the audio should work.

Sorry for changing gears on everyone (and downshifting severly from what's been discussed) but I'm in desperate need of help and this seems to be the experts corner.

I've had my DTR-7.4 for about 1 1/2 years but only recently looked into the Net-Tunes functionality. I got my router installed and the PC working with it. Long story short, I found out after days of looking that I needed to install Net-Tunes on my computer to make this all work. There is no mention in the manual or on the Integra website detailing the receiver about needing to this. Very odd. If that gave anyone a good chuckle, glad to help. Anyway, I got it installed, built my database, and now my receiver recognized my computer as a server. It looked like I had everything set. However, if I'm in the MSRV mode (with Album, Artist, Genre and Playlist displayed) or the IRD mode (with Genre, Location, or Language displayed) my screen/receiver sticks on that first option (Album or Genre) and I can't pick anything else. No songs are displayed from the computer and no internet radio stations are displayed. I made sure the computer is recognized as a server but that's as far as I can get it. I can move through all the menu settings for IP address and other stuff but when I get to those music options screens nothing happens. And I've let those screens sit for over an hour with no change. Am I missing something on the receiver end or is something misconfigured with Net Tunes? I'm desperate. If anyone can help I'd be greatly appreciative. Thanks.

You can see your computer so there is a successful connection. hmmm...

#1) check your computer for a firewall and if you have one, allow access through the net tune port. The server software may be using a different port of interrupted. Try to find your firewall log since that may have clues to what is going on.

My second guess would be the files on your computer are encoded in a format/bit-rate your DTR can't play. I don't know the specs, but that is a common problem with some Onkyo Net-tune setups where some songs out-right don't work.

I posted this awhile back and it may help you.

Are you using the original remote?
I had the same problem when I was using my Harmony remote until I managed to get it programmed right. The up/down/fwd/bk and select buttons are different when the remote is in NetA mode. And the buttons on the front panel don't control those functions you must use the remote.
I hope this helps.

post

(2)

Sorry (3)

(4) again

I successfully got Ebirbal's method to work. By the way, thanks for the detailed "how to". Nice work! I just wish this solution was around 2 years ago when I first bought the receiver. I have added 20 high quality mp3 radio streams to my customized list. The only problem that I have found is that you cannot bookmark these streams for convienence. This is even when you are still running Privoxy on your network. You get a "not connect" because the receiver is not actually bookmarking the URL, but a reference ID string that is sent back to the Xiva server such as this one:

Feb 24 10:45:36 Privoxy(03504) Request: www.xiva-net.com:80/services/irds.jsp?Format=audio/x-scpls%20audio/x-mpegurl%20application/vnd.ms-asf&ID=0202
Feb 24 10:45:36 Privoxy(02724) Request: portal05.xiva-net.com:80/services/irds.jsp?Format=audio/x-scpls%20audio/x-mpegurl%20application/vnd.ms-asf&ID=0202
Feb 24 10:45:37 Privoxy(01388) Request: portal05.xiva-net.com:80/~prullman/irds.jsp?Format=audio/x-scpls%20audio/x-mpegurl%20application/vnd.ms-asf&ID=0202
Feb 24 10:45:37 Privoxy(03896) Request: www.loudcity.net:80/Portals/0/LCPlayLists/57/RFC_Windows_Media_Listen_160_MP3.asx

I made sure the Windows firewall was disabled (was using Zone Alarm instead) and the router firewall was disabled. I then totally unsintalled Zone Alarm, figuring just shutting it down might not be enough. So there was nothing blocking the path.

As for the songs, that my be possible but it doesn't explain why I don't have any stations listed on the internet radio part of the functionality.

I noticed in the Net-Tunes app that when I double click on the picture of my receiver I get the Client Information box to pop up. It shows the Client Name, IP address, and Client Status. In that Client Status section it shows the name of my server (PC), Status and Volume. My status says "Stop". Is this normal?

Also, if I double click on the server (PC) I get a box to pop up showing the Server Settings. A button on that screen is for Firmware. If I click on that button I get another box to pop up showing any firmware found and giving me the option of adding or removing. I have nothing listed in there. Should I have some sort of firmware listed?

I don't know if these are issues causing my problem or not. The bottom line is that my computer recognizes my receiver and my receiver appears to recognize my computer but I can't get any songs or stations to appear. I even had a friend who is a programmer come over to make sure I am understanding the process correctly and have everything hooked up and installed as it should be and he confirmed I did. There must be something missing from this equation and I am totally out of ideas because I'm not an Integra expert.

And speaking of them, I called them at 9:04 AM, right after they are open. I've been on hold since. 3 hours, 11 minutes and counting.

I'm desperate for help.

BartmanS4,

I used the remote as the manual indicated it should be used. Are you saying there's something different I need or should be doing from what the manual is telling me? I did see your post before and immediately ran back to the manual to make sure I was using the right buttons but nothing I tried with the remote pursuant to what the manual said made a difference.

Am I misunderstanding you?

Hey Weapon,
No you're probably not misunderstanding me. When I had my problems I was using a universal remote that was not quite setup correctly. If you are using your original remote and when you click the round select button the NetA button lights then you're OK. The symptom you describe is exactly what I was seeing though. My remote could scroll up and down but the select button didn't work to enter an artist or genre etc. or to play a song.

Well I was really REALLY hoping that would solve my problem. I guess I'm still SOL. If there is anyone that can help I'm all ears.

I'm probably going to stop by the store where I bought the unit and ask them if they can help. Integra is obviously striving to be the worst customer service support ever.

I hate to say it but I've completely given up on Net-Tune. Even when you get it working it is sorely lacking in features and functionality. I just ordered a Squeezebox 3 today. I'll still use the Integra just not to serve media. One of the things I want is the ability to stream FLAC files. Good Luck

ebirbal,

Thanks so much for the excellent sleuthing! I've grown accustomed to not ever getting any positive information from this forum, so I tend to rarely check it anymore. I was pleasantly surprised when I did! Not sure if I'll give your approach a try or not, as I rarely listen to much on my receiver anymore, aside from movies. The funny thing is, when I first got my 801 & hooked everything up, I was able to get virtually 90% of the stations listed to tune in. I really wish Onkyo would address the issue directly, but I guess that's just asking too much. All of my emails to them have gone unanswered, which was to be exected.

t246,

If you send something out to the BBB or whomever, please post it here. I'll be more than happy to complain to the same parties myself.

Hi weaponx,

Do you use the right PC name? I used something like "Ben-Desktop" before as my PC name the got the symptom like yours. When I changed the PC name to "Desktop", everything worked suddenly. So maybe you want to give it a try to change your PC name to a simple alphabetical one.

Another thing.... My NetA does not play WMA files, no matter it's WMA9 or WMA10 (Heard that it doesn't work). But that's OK since I can live with MP3.

After all my teeth gnashing and head scratching I solved my problem. I know when using the remote for some things you use the scroll wheel to display the function you want. Then you press the wheel to select it. So with the Net Audio functions I was doing that. I'd scroll to 'MServ' or 'IRD' and then press the scroll the wheel. I'd then try pressing the Artist or Album buttons and get no response. The one button, I believe it's the Playlist button, also is the Test Tone button. I pressed that and the test tone was playing. That got me thinking, maybe the remote is not in the proper mode as the buttons are doing what they should be doing in the Net Audio mode. I got out the manual and read every single letter of every single word of the instructions. It said to use the scroll wheel and when you got the right function on the button row of the display on the remoted would be the words 'Net-Tune' or something to that effect. I remembered whenever I'd use the scroll wheel and then click on the wheel that bottom row was changing to the word 'Amp'. So this time I scrolled to Mserv but didn't press the wheel. I then hit the Album button on the remote. Bingo. I'm getting albums on the screen. I scrolled to IRD and did the same thing. Bingo again. I'm getting station lists. So this whole time my problem was that I was hitting the scroll wheel button when I shouldn't have been. Unbelievable.

For the record, does anyone know what the purpose of pressing the scroll wheel does? It obviousaly affects the performance and purpose of the remote but I'll be darned if I can figure out why it's there.

And after some brief playing it seems I'm now in the same boat as everyone else with the lack of available stations. I clicked on 4 of them last night and none of them came in. Looks like I'll be dealing with 10% of the list like everyone else.

Sorry for the pointless posts but desperation does that to a man.

ebirbal,

Well I attempted to give your method a shot and I've come to a bump in the road. I installed Privoxy and configured the listening address to that assigned to my computer. Then I configured my proxy settings on my Onkyo with the same address and port: 8118. Settings were saved. Once done, I was able to browse radio stations, but the Onkyo was unable to connect and play them. So, I turned Proxy to "off" on the receiver and the iRadio was able to play once again. Any ideas?

pressing the scroll wheel does a few things but mostly it puts the controller mode into amp mode

Slgolding,
Sure you can use the same technique to play WMA streams... just modify the URL accordingly or create a playlist in windows media player format (.asx i guess)

Unfortunately, my receiver has severe problems playing certain WMA streams - even those from Xiva - this is one of the main reasons why it shows "Not Connect" most of the time. If you have a newer receiver or a receiver with a new firmware update, you can try playing wma streams like Al Arabia (on your receiver choose location -> UAE -> Al Arabia for example) - I can play this station fine through windows media player but the receiver refuses to play this (and several other WMA) stations.

As for real media streams, no the receiver does not recognise real media streams. If you really want to play some WMA/RM station, you might want to transcode it on the fly to MP3 and then stream it to the receiver using the same technique - but I am not sure if that would be worth all the effort especially with the quality loss that would occur :(

Well my Internet Radio has been completely down now for a couple of weeks I'd guess. Firewall seems to indicate that the 801 is trying to contact a web server at 84.22.161.223, but that server appears to be gone now - there's a generic Web page up there now (nicnames???). So now I guess EVERYONE'S Onkyo Internet Radio id down... Any word on what's going on? I'm guessing this is permanent... Will give ebirbal's "recipe" (Thank You) a whirl in the meantime...

Yes it has been down for couple of weeks.

I think since nobody has ever complained about this hoax (nettune internet radio) (beyond unanswered notes to Onkyo), they decided to take it out alltogether.

They are smug and realize there is not enough people/will to make drastic steps like filing class action with request to provide adeqiate service or refund, so they can get away with it.

Well I don't suppose anybody has an example content of what gets sent to/from the now-missing web service? I'd still like to figure out if I can make my Mac look like this non-existant web service so that I can use the networking feature of the Onkyo for something. Or perhaps I'll just go buy another AirPort Express since the first one is working well on the other stereo.

Good thing Net-Tunes wasn't the motivating factor for my purchase decision.

Well I've tried to get ebirbal's procedure to work - but no joy... appears that pages/documents on the portal05.xiva-net.com server can't be found... I assume that the xiva service is gone too? Anyone else able to access the irds.jsp or any other documents from the xiva-net portal?

This really sucks... THANK YOU ONKYO. While it wasn't a huge capability when I bought the 801 only a few months ago, it had certainly become a well liked feature. I'm tempted to try to return the thing and start trashing the ONKYO brand.

Anyone got any info on modding/re-flashing the receiver firmware?

I've found this on website of imegre corporation

Looks like they stop broadcasting officially. I wonder if Onlyo/Integra has any legal responsibility to provide an alternative service. If so it might be very good since this Xiva was a total trash anyway. If no, may be there is a formal ground to request refund.

I would be happy to use this hypothetical refund to by Squeezebox 3 from slimdevices - all reviews are raving about it.

---------------------------------------

NP200 Internet Radio Support

Issue Date: 20 December 2005

Re: Withdrawal of XiVA Internet radio support on Imerge NP200 Network Player

The market leading Imerge NP200 Network Player is at the forefront of audio distribution technology, using IP networking to share media around the modern home when used in conjunction with an Imerge S2000 SoundServer. The combination of this technology, a high quality 20W stereo amplifier, digital/analogue audio inputs, AM/FM and internet radio have made it an ideal companion to XiVA SoundServers, where standard cable runs are not practical.

Internet radio service provision and streaming formats have changed dramatically in recent years causing many of the NP200 compatible internet radio stations to swap their broadcasting formats in favour of new standards. Regrettably, and for reasons beyond our control, we will no longer be supporting internet radio streaming on NP200 network players shipped from 20th December 2005. In addition, we will no longer be actively maintaining the Internet Radio database for current NP200 users, which means that as streaming formats change the selection of Internet Radio Stations available may diminish.

The NP200 will remain XiVA's choice for audio distribution via IP networks due to its ease of use and practicality and we hope that our customers will continue to appreciate the quality of lossless streaming over both wired and wireless networks from the SoundServer, as well as the many other features it has to offer.

So, anyone know where the terminal is on this sucker? I did a little more digging and found the web server is run by thttpd (http://www.acme.com/software/thttpd/) and therefore runs a unix-like OS. As such, there has to be a way of configuring parameters somehow. I tried SSH, but other than ethernet, I can't imagine how anyone could log in. Could be through Inferred.

Anyone took one apart? Or have Pics of the guts? :cool:

So, anyone know where the terminal is on this sucker? I did a little more digging and found the web server is run by thttpd (http://www.acme.com/software/thttpd/) and therefore runs a unix-like OS. As such, there has to be a way of configuring parameters somehow. I tried SSH, but other than ethernet, I can't imagine how anyone could log in. Could be through Inferred.

Anyone took one apart? Or have Pics of the guts? :cool:

I popped the cover off mine. It's going to take a while to take apart, there are multiple layers, they stacked pc boards, etc. What I find most interesting is that the boards I can see are stamped Net-Tune and the transformer says Onkyo. The NAS version for this product was clearly a Xiva design (Imerge). This box almost looks like it was an Onkyo design. Wonder if when they did their deal Onkyo was responsible for this product and Xiva/Imerge the server side...

Nothing clearly identifiable as a serial port/console port on the outer most board. It's going to take a while to tear out the rest to see if there is some flash memory on board which could be reprogrammed.

Might it be easier to approach Onkoy or Xiva/Imerge and ask for source code to be put into the public domain? I'm sure there are enough of us that might be willing to support it...

Also, anyone sniffed the datastream enough to know if you can redirect it to a different radio server?

I tried to go to both Onkyo and Integra USA websites to send request what's going on with Internet Radio, but both sites are down. When I went to European Onkyo site I found that they advertise a new "flagship" A/V receiver NR5000 (BTW card based NR10000 is absent from their line of products) and it does have Nettune/Internet radio functionality.

May be they will announce alternative service/upgrade when both their websites in US return to function

I did a bit more hacking/poking around.
There is a linux running on these things. On an ARM processor.
Their software is using a number of freeware items, thttpd was already mentioned. It also uses busybox and tinylogin. The most interesting thing I found was that it uses Simple Service Discovery Protocol (SSDP) to multicast out service requests. If you hit the HTTP server on it, the xml you get back is likely an SSDP reply. So the interesting question is, is there a "service" that you could do locally that could be used instead of the xiva-net.com/services/irds.jsp lookup that is currently being done...

I found this interesting Japanese web page. Using google to translate, it is somewhat readable.

http://park2.wakwak.com/~poke/program/tool/ncsimpleportalserver/index.html

Worse comes to worse, could probably edit the firmware binary to look at a different address from the xiva-net.com address and return new XML that it will accept. Would be nicer if you could have it discover a local service. I need to do some additional reading on SSDP.

Great detective work!

If the unit is looking for xiva-net by NAME maybe we could intercept the DNS request with our own DNS server and re-direct as desired. If using the IP address (which I really doubt) then we'd need a plan "B" (modding/reflashing firmware, etc...)

Great detective work!

If the unit is looking for xiva-net by NAME maybe we could intercept the DNS request with our own DNS server and re-direct as desired. If using the IP address (which I really doubt) then we'd need a plan "B" (modding/reflashing firmware, etc...)

Yes, that is it exactly. It is looking it up by name. What the software at the Japanese site I mentioned does is have you point the DNS server to a machine running their software. It then replys with that IP address when the xiva-net site is looked for.

I went back and read ebirbal's post and he too realized this I believe and his proxy is also intercepting those lookups.

If I was cynical, I'd say that Xiva's programmer, rpullman left the company and they don't know how his stuff works :rolleyes: It seems (to me) rather odd that the actual directory at Xiva that it was pulling the info from was ~rpullman, which was their home directory.

I'm still going to drop an e-mail to Xiva/Imerge. If we can get them to just put a redirect for that web page to another site, I think we could create a nice web page where people can submit the stations they want, and either return a personalized list, or the entire list when a query comes in.

It also uses busybox and ...
The GPL licensed busybox? Software that requires a company to release its modified source code to the public?

Hmmm.... :cool: I don't want to bring around any lawsuits, but it would be nice if Onkyo took a second look at that GPL license.

Any way I can verify the use of these Programs?

The GPL licensed busybox? Software that requires a company to release its modified source code to the public?

Hmmm.... :cool: I don't want to bring around any lawsuits, but it would be nice if Onkyo took a second look at that GPL license.

Any way I can verify the use of these Programs?

I got it from the strings in the firmware that gets loaded into their NP500.
But, I also suspect they don't modify busybox, tinylogin, or thttpd. I suspect they use them to reduce the memory footprint required. I haven't ripped the box apart yet to see just how much RAM they have.

I have e-mail into Imerge and to the Japanese author of the software I pointed to to see if there is an English version.

Ok, I ripped open my NP500 (Integra NAC 2.3).

It runs on a Cirrus Logic EP7312 ARM processor. Has 2 banks of 64Mbit SDRAM (Elpida HM5264165FTT-A60) and a Macronix flash memory, MX29LV320BTC-90 (4Mbytes). Only other part of consequence is a CrystalLan 10Mbps ethernet controller (CS8900A). Nothing on the motherboard clearly labeled for a serial port. Nor are there any clear traces or RS-232 line drivers I could follow from the chip. So it's likely they use a different or modified card for development. Unless they have telnet enabled, unlikely we'll be able to get into any console prompt.

I think the best hope is to get some cooperation from Imerge/Xiva and run our own web site that returns stations rather than try to get into the Linux kernel. Or maybe I'm just lazy.

<snip>

If I was cynical, I'd say that Xiva's programmer, rpullman left the company and they don't know how his stuff works :rolleyes: It seems (to me) rather odd that the actual directory at Xiva that it was pulling the info from was ~rpullman, which was their home directory.
<snip>

I've been following this forum for a few months. I've done some sniffs of the internet radio function and of the interaction with my server. The protocol doesn't look familiar and Ethereal 10.14 doesn't recognize SSDP nor UpNp, so it's not much help except to follow the raw capture.

However, with the recent developments with Xiva dumping the internet radio portion, I decided to look at the trace for that and follow the re-directs (there are about 2 redirects from the original hard-wired address from my receiver).

Have any of you looked at this? : (aich tee tee pee colon slash-slash) portal05 (slash) xiva-net (dot) com

It looks somewhat like the server itself crashed. Perhaps it took rpullman's files with it... (b.t.w., the ultimate destination when internet radio was working was : (aich tee tee pee colon slash slash) portal05 (dot) xiva-net (dot) com (slash tilde) prullman (slash) irds(dot) jay ess pee)

(:-~ sorry)

mark

:p Hahaha! Way to get around that filter. That's one of the more creative approaches I've seen.

Quick update. I'm in an e-mail discussion with the technical support manager at Imerge/Xiva. My proposal is this:

Xiva puts a redirect from www.xiva-net.com/services/irds.jsp to another address.
The new address is a web site created by (hopefully) readers of this thread. What the new web site does is allow people to submit their favorite radio stations. The web site would collect these from all who submit them, perhaps verify them in the future, and would return a list of all the collected radio stations. In the future we'd add it so that it could return a personalized list of stations. I can probably find someone to host the site here in California, if needed. I'm not sure how much traffic it would receive.

If this makes sense, let me know. If you think doing a web site is a waste, and making an english version of the Japanese software would be better, let me know. I exchanged e-mail with the person who wrote the Japanese software, but he doesn't speak English, so he cannot offer us an English version. But I'm sure someone could slap something together, perhaps in Java so it's platform independent. But my personal feeling is that a web site that is user populated and maintained is our best bet of having an up to date list of available radio streams.

Hi Misko !

What you've suggested would be great, but I wonder why not to try to request from Onkyo/Integra to do this (aT least on the parallel track)? I beleive if substantial amount of people will write/fax to them it might have some effect.

For now they are shamelessly lying about Internet Radio with complete impunity.
It's still advertised on their website without any warning. Xiva/Imerge was decent enough to put warning on their website and as I understand they also answering your e-mails. I wrote few days ago to Integra requesting to know what's the situation with Internet Radio and didn't got any answer. Their customer service is unreachable and it's impossible to leave the message.

I don't know how many people own their networked receivers, but I am intended to file complain agains them and recommend to other to do the same

I've finally got to Integra Customer Support and the representative told me that Internet Radio will be coming back this or next week, without the need to do anything on receiver (same settings, no need to software update). How reliable this info I don't know (somehow I am sceptical)


In the last half a year the selection of stations was extremely poor and I din't find a single station which display any meaningful info about Artist/CD/Track which is one of the conviniences of Internet Radio suppose to have. In they annoncment Xiva mentioned as one of the reasons odf stopping support transition to new formats, May be it will be fixed and more stations will be available. Regarding of addition of user defined station I don't know if they will enable this feature.

Denon networking receiver, IMHO, allows to add new stations by users as well as Slimdevices Squezzebox 3, but I don't want to switch to other receiver just because of IR and Squezzebox, good as it is, is another 300$

I really appreciate everyone on here making such efforts to try to get the internet radio functionality on these receivers working. As I mentioned in previous posts on this thread I only recently got my receiver's use of this functionality up and running and then to find the Xiva part wasn't working at all. If there is any way someone or a group of people could put something together as an alternative I for one would be very appreciative. Misko, I definitely appreciate the efforts you've made to contact the Xiva folks and try to create an alternate solution.

With regards to contacting Integra, I'm shocked that anyone got through to them. As I mentioned in previous posts, I have spent up to 8 continous hours on hold with no one answering the phone. I've called them repeatedly and sent them numerous emails to no avail. t246, if you did indeed get through to them, how did you do it? Any particular number you used? As for whether they are serious in their response to you, we can only hope. My fingers are crossed but I'm glad this thread has kept going. Hopefully very soon we'll have a working internet radio source one way or another.

Weaponx !

I have never been able to reach customer/technical support directly. There is no way to leave a message and they never answer (I was once on hold for more then one hour).

Today I called they tall free number 800-225-1946 and rather then going with customer support I punch the number for sales. I spoke with sales representative requesting to know if they officially support Internet Radio mentioning Xiva/Imerge announcement and he transfered me to Custome Support where I was connected in unbelievably short time (few minutes) speaking with somebody named Tony. I asked regarding Internet Radio and he answered "Yes, yes we are going to have working server, let me double check what is the official word" He put me an hold, returned after 5 minutes and told me that IR will return this or next week, with no need to make any changes in settings/software.

Honerstly, I don't beleive it. The quality of Xiva when it was working was absolutely horrible (no internet portal, no Artist/Albom info, 90% of station listed never were streamed despite the fact I was able to hear them thru computer etc)

I know few people complained but Integra/Onkyo simply ignored emails.

My opinion we, as customers, are to blame as well. Make a Google search on Xiva / Onkyo Internet Radio etc - how many complains on numerios audio forums you can find ? Answer - next to none. Why ?

I don't know why - one of the reasons I choose DTR-7.4 was Nettune and IR, I really use IR to explore different music especially from other countries, but may be I am minority and overwhelming majority of people simply by Onkyo/Integra because it's OK receiver. Nettune BTW, works OK (terrible UI but sound quality is good and it never disconnect)

May be the need to be hit with hundreds and thousends of complains on all forums, letters to audiophil magazines, class action to come to their senses.
If it doesn;t happen, they will not do anything and continue to lie with impunity, provide non-existing customer service etc

I paid 1400$ for DTR-7.4 being tempted by Integra brand name and possibility to have only one box and looks I made a mistake. If I would do it again I would buy amp/preamp from company like Outlaw, which are decent folks, have (according to multiple evidence) a great customer service, answering phones and e-mails and care about their reputation and add a separate network solution as Squzebox 3 (when I called them I was answered in 1 minute by live representative who answered all my technical questions). Unfortunately I don't have unlimited supply of money, so I am stuck with Integra DTR-7.4 and DPC-8.5 (I must admit that soundwise DTR-7.4 is OK and I never had any problems with it in year and half I own it).

Regards

I can probably find someone to host the site here in California, if needed.
Ding, ding, ding! :D

If you think doing a web site is a waste, and making an english version of the Japanese software would be better, let me know.
It would be great to get my hands on the software, and I love to tinker around with gadgets, but I honestly can't program THAT well. (I've built linux boxes for years though) I could redirect the expected site easily, but if I had to add new code, well, I don't think anyone would want to update their devices. :eek:

Instead of Javascript, perhaps a web based PHP script/MySQL solution could do the trick. From what I can tell, all the info needed is already contained in a standard .pls file, so a user would just have to upload that to a database and add some extra info. A little parsing, add it to the database, and return a formatted XML page and you have your own XIVA site. The problem would be keeping it up to date. (I assume that's the biggest problem they had too)

Now if only I could merge my mock-XIVA database with the up-to-date Shoutcast somehow... :cool:

t246 - I'm with you, doing something in parallel with Onkyo/Integra would be great. But I have no contacts there. I was fortunate enough to get an Imerge business card at EHX a year ago, and although the person is no longer with the company, his replacement from the UK was kind enough to reply to my request for assistance. If someone wants to take on Onkyo/Integra, that would be great. To me the challenge is, if they want a new web site, they have to work with Imerge/Xiva, or upgrade the firmware in everyones box :-( Poor design probably. Plus Imerge/Xiva is smaller than Onkyo, so I'm hoping easier to deal with. But, Imerge was purchased a while back by Linear (if memory serves) so they may have their own challenges.

If Imerge/Xiva will in fact turn internet radio back on in the next week or so, that is also encouraging. I keep folks posted as to what they tell me. I told him there was a large crowd on avsforum that were quite interested in this subject :-)

Hi Misko !

My impression from conversation with Integra rep was (but I might be wrong) that they are going somehow to do it unrelated to Xiva. Also, what he told me regarding resuming IR "next week" might be plain lie just to finish the conversation.

I beleive the only way to force Integra/Onkyo to provide IR service is by generating enough noise from enough people so they decide it's counterproductive to their business interest not to do it. I am sort of pessimistic about it, since I don't think there is a critical mass of people interested in Onkyo IR/Nettune . Personally I''ll wait until the end of next week to give them benefit of the doubt and if IR is not resumed (which I am nearly sure will be the case) I'll send e-mail to BBB describing the problem copy Onkyo/Integra to it as well as few audiophil online sites. If anybody else will do the same, well may be there is a slight chance something move.

BTW, few months ago I make a call to Imerge Customer Service (I give them credit live rep replied immediately. I asked where disappeared all those stations which they used to stream and he told me that many change streaming format, but Onkyo/Integra didn't supply new software to handle this, that's the reason. Judging on their announcement, looks like it close to truth).

I bought my DTR-7.4 through a recommendation of a friend. He writes a syndicated A/V column and I told him I was looking for a great receiver that wasn't a brand you can buy at any cookie cutter electronics store. Long story short, this seemed to be a good fit for me. I didn't even really buy it for the internet functionality but thought it was cool to have. I had it for over a year and didn't hook it up because I knew I'd need to get a router for it and for whatever reason was too lazy to hook one up. I finally did only to find the loads of trouble I encountered. I should have realized early on the problems I'd have with Integra. The units weren't offically out when I ordered one through a friend of a friend who has a high end shop. 3 months and repeated irate calls from the store owner is what it took for him to get me my receiver. I tried to contact Integra multiple times with a variety of questions during the time I had my receiver and never once got any response in any fashion. When I had encountered this latest batch of problems I went back to the store were I got it to see if they could help. The owner told me he stopped dealing with Integra altogether because their service was appaling and he wasn't offering that kind of product to his customers. Wonderful. So, I'm back to having nowhere but here to turn if something should go wrong.

Overall I really can't complain about the unit. I've not had any problems with it other than general head scratchers. But their service department has done enough that I will not recommend this brand to anyone else and will not buy another product from them again. I was on the verge of selling this and I too know now that if I had to do it again I'd go with separates, possibly from Outlaw.

I agree that a large scale effort or an effort of any kind has to be generated to draw attention to this company and highlight their abysmal customer service. I've had better communication from con artists! But the problem I think we'll find, as it pertains to the hoax of internet radio functionality, is that these receivers tend to be sold by shops that do professional installations. That means the majority of people that buy these models will never have to worry about hooking them up themselves or figuring out why something isn't working. Hell, I'll bet most of the folks that pay to have their houses all wired up won't even bother to look into how to use all the functionality offered on receivers like these. If the majority of the owners of these receivers don't want to or can't be bothered to care about the deceiving practices of this company I'm afraid any endeavor to push Integra into a corner will be thin at best.

I'm an Integra dealer and will make a call tomorrow...

Eric

The word I received on the IRadio issue is that iMerge's server crashed. Their new replacement server will be up any time now. IRadio is doomed to disappear eventually due to the changes in streaming codecs, etc.

Eric

It's my understanding that even if they replace server, the choice of stations will be very poor and as Eric mentioned, IR will disappear (it's not clear when) because of lack of support for changing streaming formats. I think that what Imerge represenatative mean when I spoke with him in October 2005 when he mentioned that Onkyo had not supplied a software they requested to stream stations, and this was the reason why many stations became unavailable.


---------------

From Imerge announcement - Dec 20 2005

Regrettably, and for reasons beyond our control, we will no longer be supporting internet radio streaming on NP200 network players shipped from 20th December 2005. In addition, we will no longer be actively maintaining the Internet Radio database for current NP200 users, which means that as streaming formats change the selection of Internet Radio Stations available may diminish.

I hope this situation doesn't happen to my new Denon; right now I am enjoying wonderful internet radio connections with ample choice...But denon is new at this game and may suddenly withdraw support like Onkyo - I hope not!

Time for a lawsuit to get Onkyo back into the game. Any lawyers out there?

Today morning I spoke with Imerge rep (answered immediately by live person). He told me server is going be back each day.

I asked why only small percentage of stations mentioned are streamed - his answer was that a lot of them switched to new format and Onkyo/Integra didn't supply proper software (heard this new format story 7 months ago)

I asked when they are going to supply software (if at all) - rep told me that his computer is down and told me to check later. I am going to call them Monday morning just out of pure curiosity, but those Imerge folks were reliable so far with their info.

Few minutes ago I checked Internet Radio on my receiver - looks like they have indeed changed the server - I was able to listen to few stations - as before, 95% percent of stations (based on random sampling) doesn's work, NONE of the very few stations which do work provide meaningful info regarding CD/Artist/Song (most likely it shows "no info").

To summarize - Onkyo Internet Radio Hoax is back for now with "hundreds of stations" exactly as advertised on Integra website (what a pathetic joke).

May be it's the punishment for stupidity for those who buy Integra equipment and beleive their ads ?

"Onkyo/Integra didn't supply new software to handle this [new streaming formats]"
The only bits of information exchanged with Xiva is the list of stations and the URL(s) of the actual audio streams. The audio streams themselves donot come from Xiva and the decoding of the streams is done by the network receiver. So if the streaming server, switches to a new format [which will happen all the time], then the only fix would be to upgrade the firmware on the receiver. I've noticed several instances where I was able to play WMA streams (listed by the Xiva service) through Windows Media Player, but the receiver refused to play the very same streams. IMHO, its not Xiva at fault - its the crappy receivers form Onkyo/Integra that are unable to handle the new streaming formats. I still fail to understand why Onkyo choose to partner with a third party simply to provide a list of internet radio stations which are in the public domain anyways ?

Keeping a parallel server along with Xiva is also not going to help much. At best, all you'll be able to do is to keep a list of stations that the receiver CAN decode and the list is going to get shorter and shorter as more stations switch to newer formats. The only real fix to this problem is to upgrade the firmware. I'm sure that if the firmware is upgraded, a lot of stations listed at Xiva would come back to life. If Onkyo cannot upgrade their software themselves, they should probably release it in the public domain where we'll be able to do justice to the otherwise fine receivers.

The only bits of information exchanged with Xiva is the list of stations and the URL(s) of the actual audio streams. The audio streams themselves donot come from Xiva and the decoding of the streams is done by the network receiver. So if the streaming server, switches to a new format [which will happen all the time], then the only fix would be to upgrade the firmware on the receiver. I've noticed several instances where I was able to play WMA streams (listed by the Xiva service) through Windows Media Player, but the receiver refused to play the very same streams. IMHO, its not Xiva at fault - its the crappy receivers form Onkyo/Integra that are unable to handle the new streaming formats. I still fail to understand why Onkyo choose to partner with a third party simply to provide a list of internet radio stations which are in the public domain anyways ?

Keeping a parallel server along with Xiva is also not going to help much. At best, all you'll be able to do is to keep a list of stations that the receiver CAN decode and the list is going to get shorter and shorter as more stations switch to newer formats. The only real fix to this problem is to upgrade the firmware. I'm sure that if the firmware is upgraded, a lot of stations listed at Xiva would come back to life. If Onkyo cannot upgrade their software themselves, they should probably release it in the public domain where we'll be able to do justice to the otherwise fine receivers.

I believe the firmware inside these boxes comes from Xiva/Imerge. Xiva developed the software and the protocols, Onkyo, Integra, Crestron, Marantz, and several others OEM these boxes from Imerge. For the receivers (I only have an Integra NAS and NAC) I suspect that there is firmware in them also from Xiva. If you go to the Xiva products page, they have 4 options. Integra started with Option 3 or 4 and resold the Imerge NAC and NAS products. I suspect that the Onkyo receivers use Option 1, software only, but at the end of the day I suspect that Onkyo is somewhat dependent on Xiva. Xiva is in the business of licensing software. I suppose it is possible for the current generation of Onkyo and Integra receivers that they use all new software, but I would tend to be doubtful. Here's the press release from the Xiva web site:

Imerge announce partnership with the Integra division of Onkyo

The Integra Division of Onkyo has become the latest big name to sign a partnership agreement with Imerge for XiVA™, the technology that is fast becoming the de-facto standard for the next generation of consumer electronics products that are hard disk-based and Internet-enabled. Integra will produce a multi-zone capable hard-disk audio system powered by XiVA™. Music will be distributed digitally round the house via Ethernet using Integra thin clients to provide a complete home entertainment system. As part of this agreement Integra will develop a thin client platform for use by Imerge and its growing list of XiVA™ partners.

According to Hayao Kamiya, General Manager of Consumer Electronics Division at Onkyo "Integra are now looking to expand into the digital home network market and our dream is to create high quality AV products that can connect into a home network and distribute media via Ethernet. We plan to provide a high quality home entertainment system combined with the convenience of Ethernet distribution. We are expanding from our core of AV home theatre oriented products to new challenges in the digital home network field. In this way we aim to remain a powerful, forward-looking company and Imerge are offering us advantages in terms of experience, knowledge and time to market."

Steve Croft, Head of Technology Licensing at Imerge commented, "We are delighted to be working with Onkyo and this latest deal confirms that XiVA™ is the leading technology for companies looking to develop next generation home entertainment products."

Release date: Jan 2002

May be somebody from forum participants with background in networking (I don't have one) can contact Imerge and ask for info regarding support for new streaming formats .
Their phone number in England is +44 (0)870 0104880 and they answer it immediately by live representative. At least it was few times I called them.

As I wrote, last time (few days ago) and time before last (in October) they told me Integhra/Onkyo didn't supply software and they are waiting for it. They didn't qualify if it's software for their server or for the receivers.

Any volunteers

Now that the Xiva service is back, it seems that they have made a small change to one of the URL causing my hack (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7117832&&#post7117832) to break. I have updated the appropriate filter code in my original post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7117832&&#post7117832) and it is now again possible to play your favourite internet radio stations on your onkyo/integra receivers.

-Enjoy

ebirbal,

Thanks for the updated "hack" - I appreciate it - I can now at least listen to IR again. Now if I could just get a feed from my Sirius subscription to work thru the Onkyo!

Dear all,

Has anyone tried using any stream server software to stream audio to TX-NR801, other than nettune central? I am particularly curious about linux applications such as icecast and such. Do you think that one should use a sniffer to make things work? All ideas, suggestions and experiences are welcome.

Thanks,

hako

I decided to hammer Onkyo also......

Since the Net-Tune on my NR901 was so bad I had to buy a Roku Soundbridge.

Gee and it works.... What a concept....

Rip off Reports @ com and search for onkyo

Begins to remind of a company in a movie called YO YO Dyne

Steve F

I tried a port scanner against my TX-NR801 and it shows 3 ports open. I sort of expect port 80 to be open but 25 and 110 were a surprise...

Address : 192.168.0.111
Name : not resolved
Ping .... Ok, Time : 1
Port 25 (smtp) ... Ok ! (port 25 - Simple Mail Transfer)
Port 80 (http-www) ... Ok ! (port 80 - World Wide Web HTTP)
Port 110 (pop3) ... Ok ! (port 110 - Post Office Protocol - Version 3)
3 (of 1491) open port(s) detected

It's clear for me now IR will not be fixed and they will not add new formats (FLAC) to NetTune or improve a terriblu UI.


I am going to order Squezebox 3 for streaming and internet radio.
I'll never buy anything from Onkyo/Integra again !

They make an OK product, but it's only OK and there other products with the same quality with better customer service.

Hopefully with time I can get rid of DTR-7.5/DTC-8.5 I have now and purchase someting else. If I have time I also going to file complain against them with BBB and wrote to audiovideo magazines.

What a trashy company ! They are riding on their pas sucesses, hopefully not for long.

3 open ports? I tried scanning over and over and those never popped up. (25 and 110)

Well I guess it's my last post here. Getting totally sick of Integra's so called internet radio and ugly Nettune interface I've ordered Squeezebox3 from Slimdevices.

One word - whar a great device and what a releif (exceptional GUI, all possible and impossible formats including FLAC and Ogg Vorbis), THOUSENDS Internet Radio stations, plugins, excellent support forums), Full control from computer( actually from anywhere over web) etc, etc

Took about 10 minutes to make the device working, when I had a minor problem I called customer suport number and (miracle of miracles) nearaly immediately representative was on the line and the problem (update over internet to latest firmware version) was solved.

First drawback - cost 324$ (including CA tax) - I have the wireless version.

Second drawback - going to lose another $$$ while getting rid of Integra DTR-7.4 and DTC-8.5 (don't know yet what to buy instead, but One thing sure no Onkyo or Integra products, with that fraud of company I am not dealing any more)

Well I guess it's my last post here. Getting totally sick of Integra's so called internet radio and ugly Nettune interface I've ordered Squeezebox3 from Slimdevices.

One word - whar a great device and what a releif (exceptional GUI, all possible and impossible formats including FLAC and Ogg Vorbis), THOUSENDS Internet Radio stations, plugins, excellent support forums), Full control from computer( actually from anywhere over web) etc, etc

Took about 10 minutes to make the device working, when I had a minor problem I called customer suport number and (miracle of miracles) nearaly immediately representative was on the line and the problem (update over internet to latest firmware version) was solved.

First drawback - cost 324$ (including CA tax) - I have the wireless version.

Second drawback - going to lose another $$$ while getting rid of Integra DTR-7.4 and DTC-8.5 (don't know yet what to buy instead, but One thing sure no Onkyo or Integra products, with that fraud of company I am not dealing any more)

Congratulations on your acquisition, however, I don't see why you need to rid yourself of your receiver and DVD player? I don't think the Squeezebox is an AVR, no?

Eric

Well it looks like Onkyo Japan has just (24 May 2006) released updated Net Tune Central software and firmware for some of the products that gives Windows Media 10 compatibility and improves Internet Radio reception.

I'll check and see if/when that update is expected to migrate Stateside.

Eric

Does anyone have any experience with weirdness with NetTunes and Zone 2? I have a TX-801NR and I'm using Zone 2 for my back porch. I can get CD, FM, Phono, etc. on my Zone 2 speakers. However, my Nettune is only coming out of my Right Spkr...

On my main spkrs, it comes out of both L&R. (Again, all my other sources come out of both speakers in Zone 2).

Just another joy of owning NetTunes? Is there a way to "hard boot" the receiver?

Does this sound like a hardware or a firmware problem?

Thanks...
Mark

Zone 2 works fine on my TX-NR801. I would check your speaker wires.

Funny thing: In testing this, the only NetTunes station I could connect to was actually broadcasting static. :cool: A little irony for you, but I guess it is a step up in some way.

Eric Carter wrote

Congratulations on your acquisition, however, I don't see why you need to rid yourself of your receiver and DVD player? I don't think the Squeezebox is an AVR, no?

Eric

--------

Hi Eric !

It's true that Squeezebox is not an AVR. The reason I would like to get rid of Integra/Onkyo products I have and buy something else instead is that this company performed a fraud on their customers myself included.

I am going to provide a little bit more details and I'll be happy to hear your reaction ( I understand you are Integra dealer, so you might have more knowledge about issues I am going to raise).

When I bought Integra DTR-7.4 1.5 year ago (and later their DVD changer DPC-8.5) The tipping points for me (I also considered other receivers) was nettune (Ihave more then 800 CDs I wanted to digitize), netradio (I like world music) and the powered second zone (I wanted to have one-box solution for
living room and bedroom).

It turned out the follows -

1. Internet Radio was a fraud from the beginning (and Integra shamelesssly continuie to advertise "thousends" of stations with "info about artist/albom" played (NONE of the stations EVER had this info and from
the long list of stations listed on Integra website 90% is disfunctional for many months.

2. When I bought the second set of speakers for my bedroom and connected them to Integra I found out that it's impossible to have NetTune/Internet Radio functionality in Zone 2 for the following reasons

1. No OSD in Zone 2 (In no place in manual there is a warning about it)

2. Even for those actions which doesn't required OSD (like pause/skip to next song etc). you can't use your remote id Zone 2 is on NetTune/Internet Radio and Zone 1 is turned off set to something else like CD. The only way to operate Nettune/Internet radio in Zone 2 is to turnemain zone on or to put it also on NetTune and perform required operation in main zone. In no place in manual this important limitatioin was mentioned. It tooks me FIVE weeks (and threats to file complain in BBB) to get answer from Integra Technical Support that it indeed impossible (I originally thought my remote and/or player was broken). I think Integra intentionally dropped this from manual (they carefully listed other , much less important Zone 2 limitations - like noPure audio/No RI etc but not this one).
So the advertisment about "independent Zone 2" is a lie.

Add to this customer service which doesn't answers phone call or e-mails (the ONLY way to get them to call me back was to call sales and threat them to file complaint in BBB - I was NVER able to reach them by phone by just dialing the number and it's impossible to leave the message as well).

That the reason I want to have something else instead and I regret I bought it initially. It's OK receiver bit there are other OK receivers as well.

May be you can provide your take on issues I raised ?

Well it looks like Onkyo Japan has just (24 May 2006) released updated Net Tune Central software and firmware for some of the products that gives Windows Media 10 compatibility and improves Internet Radio reception.

I'll check and see if/when that update is expected to migrate Stateside.

Eric

Please let us know. I can't believe they haven't released it here yet, unless they just delete all of the emailed complaints they've been getting. A firmware update would be fantastic.

I tried to find some info on the update, but couldn't. I thought people in the US were bad with their bitching about all the silver color being used on electronics these days, but gold? It's probably a good thing they don't offer these in the US:

http://www.intl.onkyo.com/products/network/net-tune/tx-nr801/index.html

I don't know if it's just me, but I think I would feel like a pimp if I had the gold 801 in my house.

So is anyone able to access the radio stations? I get a cannot connect error when trying use net radio on my nr801. i may have a firewall issue?

Nope. Sounds like it is working perfectly. :)
You don't need to configure your firewall because your amp is requesting an internet connection from your LAN. Firewalls allow this kind of communication by default. You could have incorrect IP settings if you are not using DHCP and that would be a problem.

If you can get a list of Genres, you are accessing the XiVA network and everything is hunky-dory.

I dont know what the issue is then, cause i can use net-tune to play mp3s off my laptop on the network thru the receiver. So the IP settings are all correct on the onkyo to be able to play the mp3s. It just wont connect when i select genres. The amp is using dhcp to get its local ip address, 192.168.0.102

If you want NetTune v2, go to the European site and get it there. It is still crap, plays songs in the wrong order etc. I can't seem to get the drag and drop to work either. There seems to be no change to the internet radio, in fact I have lost the Japanese channels that I used to listen to. The resizing options for the library, make me think I'll go back to version 1

So, does anyone here know PHP?

If so, I started a little project early this month that *ahem* has something to do with this problem. So far it is just me and my Bro but it does look promising so far. ;)

A little bit, I support a small webserver farm.

Zone 2 works fine on my TX-NR801. I would check your speaker wires.


Mr. Spork, thanks for replying. As I mentioned, all other (external) sources play fine through Zone 2. However, to be complete, I did check my speaker wires.

I did misstate something - I was actually listening to the mserver, not NetTunes - but I checked that, too. It only plays through the right speaker in Zone 2 as well. So, it appears that the codec or some subsystem that feeds the music stream to the amp is only working on the right speaker.

I wonder if this could be something simple like a sticky relay??

Mark

Ebirbal,

Have tried for a day now to get my internet radio stations playing. In your coding instructions(recipe), I can get as far as the end of step 2. I can get the stations to come up in the list on the prxy server and on the receiver, but try as I might, they will not connect via either the webserver solution (the webserver is hosted by my ip provider), or by directly imputting the url into Privoxy.

The other interesting thing is that in the listen address, I couldn't use a 192.168.x.x address. I could only use the 10.1.1.3 address.

Will say that I am an amatuer at this, but any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
uapf3

Ah! Your network is using a different IP range. This is perfectly fine, but you need to adapt the instructions to your network. Whenever you see a 192.168.X.X address replace it with your 10.1.1.X version. You should probably gather all the IP information before starting the configuration but just make sure you type in the appropriate equivalent between networks and it will work.

Ah Mr Spork,

The world is a wonderful place again. Seems that if you put a dud URL in your pls file the thing won't work. Also it all went better when I put the Webserver on my machine rather than the ISP webserver. There were some thoughts at work around closed ports etc.

Thanks for your help.

Gents,

All is not right with the world as I said in my last post. The main thing I was trying to do was get back the radio station NHK Radio Japan. Everything technical is working fine, however finding a URL for the .asx stream is driving me insane.

The thing that is the most annoying is that it was a station they used to have on their list, but now I find there are no Japanese stations at all. The good lady wife is not happy, and therefore by default neither am I.

Any help appreciated

Hello. Thanks for this forum/threads. I have an Onkyo Music Server and also one of the satellite units - NAC-2.3. I just realized that the Internet Radio doesn't work and now I know why.

Of course the rest of the system does work and Internet Radio I can live without in my den (I do have it with my new Roku Soundbridge Radio and it is pretty good!) but I was wondering if someone on this forum knows: will it be possible, do you/we think, to get the Internet Radio function working again on this unit?

Thanks

Jed Bullard, Lexington, Kentucky USA

1. Internet Radio was a fraud from the beginning (and Integra shamelesssly continuie to advertise "thousends" of stations with "info about artist/albom" played (NONE of the stations EVER had this info and from
the long list of stations listed on Integra website 90% is disfunctional for many months.



I did see the artist/song info a few times on the OSD in the past. It was station and codec dependent, though. I am most upset about the IRadio feature...which has been disastrous. The MServer works fine for me.



2. When I bought the second set of speakers for my bedroom and connected them to Integra I found out that it's impossible to have NetTune/Internet Radio functionality in Zone 2 for the following reasons

1. No OSD in Zone 2 (In no place in manual there is a warning about it)

2. Even for those actions which doesn't required OSD (like pause/skip to next song etc). you can't use your remote id Zone 2 is on NetTune/Internet Radio and Zone 1 is turned off set to something else like CD. The only way to operate Nettune/Internet radio in Zone 2 is to turnemain zone on or to put it also on NetTune and perform required operation in main zone. In no place in manual this important limitatioin was mentioned. It tooks me FIVE weeks (and threats to file complain in BBB) to get answer from Integra Technical Support that it indeed impossible (I originally thought my remote and/or player was broken). I think Integra intentionally dropped this from manual (they carefully listed other , much less important Zone 2 limitations - like noPure audio/No RI etc but not this one).
So the advertisment about "independent Zone 2" is a lie.


I have a chart from Onkyo/Integra which clearly states NO OSD in Zone 2 for the DTR-7.4. The DTR-10.5 does have it. This is something on which your dealer should have been able to counsel you.

Sorry about your problems getting help directly from Integra...that's what dealers are for! I know I bend over backwards for my clients and any issues that may arise.

I'll keep knocking on their heads about Net Tune issues...they did just release new Net Tune firmware for three products (not yours at this time, unfortunately) yesterday and today.


Eric

Integra has released Net Tune firmware updates for the NAC-2.3 client (version 1.00.04), the DTC-9.4 (version 1.00.09) and the DTR-7.3/8.3 (version 1.00.18).

The notes say that the updates accomplish the following:

"Improvement to play WMA files created by Windows Media Player 10

The radio station reception rate of the Internet radio has improved."

Eric

will it be possible, do you/we think, to get the Internet Radio function working again on this unit?



I most certainly hope so, but it will take more mental prowess than I have to find a solution. I'm still waiting patiently for someone here to come up with the perfect solution which, in my mind, involves internal access to the receiver/device itself. I would love deleting the IP address it points to-I'd replace it with something that actually worked.

For those without any hair left to pull out due to NetTune I came across this post:

SoundBridge M500 Network Music Player $99 (21-Jun-2006)
Roku has their SoundBridge M500 Network Music Player $99 with code: M5SUMMER9

(rokulabs)

I just might get one since it seems to work without any headaches.

I'm still waiting patiently for someone here to come up with the perfect solution which, in my mind, involves internal access to the receiver/device itself. I would love deleting the IP address it points to-I'd replace it with something that actually worked.
That's kind of what I am trying to do with my project. So far, I barely have much because of College and priorties, but I'm hoping in a few months to have a "beta" (ugh, that word has lost all meaning these days) hopefully working. I'll keep your name on the beta tester list as with everyone here. :p Unless you can program PHP, than your are in high demand. Hey, if you want, pick up a book. I just started earlier this month. You don't need to be a pro based on what I think needs to be done.

I just don't want to get everyone's hopes up in case I crash and burn. Hehe.

Roku has their SoundBridge M500 Network Music Player $99 with code: M5SUMMER9
$50 off! That's quite the deal.

Mt Spork, what exactly are you working on ? I can do .net maybe I can help.

.... that they are working on fixing the problem with internet radio and that it should work in the future. Of course that's a long time...

6-28-06.

BTW I have a new Roku Soundbridge radio and the internet radio function (while it has some hardware bugs) is beautiful and great reception. Better than the radio reception!

Jed

.... that they are working on fixing the problem with internet radio and that it should work in the future. Of course that's a long time...

6-28-06.

Jed


Did you get the NAC 2.3 Net-Tune firmware update?

Eric

t246 - I'm with you, doing something in parallel with Onkyo/Integra would be great. But I have no contacts there. I was fortunate enough to get an Imerge business card at EHX a year ago, and although the person is no longer with the company, his replacement from the UK was kind enough to reply to my request for assistance. If someone wants to take on Onkyo/Integra, that would be great. To me the challenge is, if they want a new web site, they have to work with Imerge/Xiva, or upgrade the firmware in everyones box :-( Poor design probably. Plus Imerge/Xiva is smaller than Onkyo, so I'm hoping easier to deal with. But, Imerge was purchased a while back by Linear (if memory serves) so they may have their own challenges.

If Imerge/Xiva will in fact turn internet radio back on in the next week or so, that is also encouraging. I keep folks posted as to what they tell me. I told him there was a large crowd on avsforum that were quite interested in this subject :-)

Sorry to intervine.

Some of these problems could be do to bad Modem PCB. Late 2002 ONKYO/Integra was to modify these PCB's by changing one or two capacitors follwoed by software update. It is possible that they did not follow through do to cost. As far as Imerge/Xiva they may be OK to work with and that unlike ONKYO their ethics is rather good.
Warning* Some of ONKYO and Integra NS products may be used products repakaged and sold as new. So their reliability can not be trusted. This is not as a result of Imerge/Xiva rather do to ONKYO's greed.

I noticed that the International Onkyo site... has *NEW* firmware posted for my device (TX-NR900) FINALLY!!

Firmware Date: 5/23/2006
Title: Net-Tune Update Package
Model:TX-NR900, DTR-7.3/8.3

Version:01.00.18

Updates:
* Improvement to play WMA files created by Win Media Player 10.
* The reception rate of Internet radio has improved.

I then called Onkyo "USA" this morning to see if they've had any experience with the new firmware (since, after all, it's a month old now) ... and they told me that they're thinking of releasing it later this month. WTF? Looking at the zip everything is in English and my model is fully supported... so why the wait? ACK!

So, rather than risk screwing something up due to my "zeal" I'm wondering if anyone has done the firmware upgrade and can tell me (us) what the changes are? Do we *finally* have the ability to tune in 'net channels directly? Is the UI improved? Given it says it wipes all the stereo settings I'd rather only do this once ... but I'm excited at the prospects.

ANYBODY?? :o)

Thanks much!

-- CJ

I've installed the Nettune Central 2 Integrated software. This version does not have a UI of its own... rather it gets installed as a plugin to Windows Media Player. This makes managing your music library much more easier as you are basically using WMP to manage your music. Havent yet checked if it plays WMA lossless - which if it does, would be a godsend. As usual, the documentation leaves a lot to be desired.

I will try to update the firmware in a few days - even if it does not allow you to specify arbitary radio stations, I wonder if it would be possible to patch the firmware files and to make it point where we like and then flash the receiver with it ? Ofcourse thats a risk only the bravest of the brave would like to take ;)

Thanks ebirbal!

Good to know! I'm honestly not crazy about the Nettune v2 (regular version) since I've noted it creates/deletes a bunch of tmp files that Norton picks up in it's "protected deleted folder". Yes, I could blacklist the location, but I'm just trying to save on redundant I/Os every second. I also plan to update to the new Microsoft OneCare Live for A/V this weekend... so we'll see how they play together.

I'm REALLY excited over the firmware thing since I'm going to be optimistic until I hear anything negative about the internet radio. After all, there are *thousands* of great 'net radio sites out there (just look at the directory in Winamp ... heck even XMRadio is mirrored there!). It would be nice to stream it into the living room and not only listen upstairs. Plus it keeps me from finding an Audiotron, Roku, etc. instead.

Can't wait to hear more!

I noticed that the International Onkyo site... has *NEW* firmware posted for my device (TX-NR900) FINALLY!!

Firmware Date: 5/23/2006
Title: Net-Tune Update Package
Model:TX-NR900, DTR-7.3/8.3

Version:01.00.18

Updates:
* Improvement to play WMA files created by Win Media Player 10.
* The reception rate of Internet radio has improved.

I then called Onkyo "USA" this morning to see if they've had any experience with the new firmware (since, after all, it's a month old now) ... and they told me that they're thinking of releasing it later this month. WTF? Looking at the zip everything is in English and my model is fully supported... so why the wait? ACK!

So, rather than risk screwing something up due to my "zeal" I'm wondering if anyone has done the firmware upgrade and can tell me (us) what the changes are? Do we *finally* have the ability to tune in 'net channels directly? Is the UI improved? Given it says it wipes all the stereo settings I'd rather only do this once ... but I'm excited at the prospects.

ANYBODY?? :o)

Thanks much!

-- CJ

The firmware update was released here on June 20th, as my previous post indicated.

I have no experience with the update at all. Good luck, and let us know!

Eric

Did you get the NAC 2.3 Net-Tune firmware update?

Eric

I pawed around on the Integra web site and didn't find any place to download aa firmware upgrade for the NAC 2.3, only NetTune Central 2.0. Do you have a pointer?

The firmware update was released here on June 20th, as my previous post indicated.

I have no experience with the update at all. Good luck, and let us know!

Eric
Actually by "here" do you mean on onkyousa? If so, I don't see squat out there. I believe you were also referencing the firmware for the NAC 2.3 thing... not the NR-900 receiver. If you were by chance talking about the NR-900, I'm curious if it's the same thing, same version, same filesize, etc... or if they "tweaked" it (for some reason) for USA-use.

Howdy,

first of all thanks to ebirbal for the excellent HOWTO. That's exactly what i'm looking for since quite a while.

Regarding the new firmware version i can say that at least for the NC-500 the Internet radio is working again since i updated it.

But what's about the new Nettune Integrated version ? I like the idea because RMP is easier to handle than the old Nettune GUI - at leat from my point of view. Unfortunately for me it is not possible to get my MP3's registered by the server. After importing all my files to the library i manually start the 'upgrade database" option in the system tray icon. After some time it exits but i cannot see any files on the receiver. Even if i restart the server all imported files are gone. Did someone else observed this bahaviour ?

Cheers, Martin

I cannot download the Net-Tune Central 2 Integrated along with the firmware update for my TX-NR801 as the intl site won't accept the serial number of my US unit. Anyone else have the same problem?

It wouldnt accept my serial # either... so I just altered a few digits in my serial # and it worked ;)

Thanks, I guess I was on the right track but gave up trying different digits too soon :)

Can't wait to here all your experiences with the new firmware. The NR801 should be similar... essentially just W/ch differences between that an the 900 series.

Also, as a footnote, my USA serial number worked fine on the intl site... just gotta remember to use the right one (there's actually two on the receiver... I used the wrong one for a while initially :o)

Maybe once we figure out the firmware thing, someone will post some quickee instructions for the windows media player plugin/net-tune central 2 integrated? I pretty much exclusively use Winamp... too bad plugins aren't cross-client compatible :(

I loaded the Nettune central 2 Integrated software last night. I am still too scared to do the firmware update, as the instructions are next to useless. I will wait till one of you guys have a go first and report back. A couple of observations.

1) Using media player is much much better. Especially the playlists function

2) If you have progressed from Ntunev1.1o through v2, you can still use your windows xp firewall if you have made the changes needed to allow you to use the firewall. I did turn it off as per the instructions during installation though.

3) I could only get internet radio using the proxy server solution that ebribal developed. Not too worried about this though.

4) Songs with foreign language titles artists genres etc in windows media player do not end up on the receiver. It just seems to ignore them. I have a bit of Japanese music, and it is a no go.

Looking forward to seeing someone with the balls to write up their experience with updating the firmware.

Cheers

Also, as a footnote, my USA serial number worked fine on the intl site... just gotta remember to use the right one (there's actually two on the receiver... I used the wrong one for a while initially :o)
:(

On the back of my TX-NR801 I can only find 1 serial number...?? Anyway I was able to "modify" my serial # to login and download the files ;)

Any ideas why there are 2 firmware versions, the Net-Tune Update Package and the Net-tune Update Package Dolby Pro Logic Version? (Because both versions are for the same models)

Actually by "here" do you mean on onkyousa? If so, I don't see squat out there. I believe you were also referencing the firmware for the NAC 2.3 thing... not the NR-900 receiver. If you were by chance talking about the NR-900, I'm curious if it's the same thing, same version, same filesize, etc... or if they "tweaked" it (for some reason) for USA-use.


I mean to we Integra dealers.

NR-900 = DTR-8.3

Eric

First Impressions:

* Internet radio reception has improved DRASTICALLY
* No high quality stations, but alteast it plays WMA streams
* No suppport yet for WMA lossless
* Album/Artist info is still not displayed for internet radio
* No provisions to specify your own radio stations

The entire updation process takes about 25 minutes. I believe Onkyo recently released upgraded models with Dolby Prologic IIx support - that might be the reason there are two firmware versions available for download.

Ebribal,

Did you do both firmware updates?

Another observation was that the songs in some albums don't play back in the order that they are shown in win media player. Will the firmware update fix this?

Does the firmware update destroy your fix for playing your own stations?

Cheers

First Impressions:

* Internet radio reception has improved DRASTICALLY
* No high quality stations, but alteast it plays WMA streams
* No suppport yet for WMA lossless
* Album/Artist info is still not displayed for internet radio
* No provisions to specify your own radio stations

The entire updation process takes about 25 minutes. I believe Onkyo recently released upgraded models with Dolby Prologic IIx support - that might be the reason there are two firmware versions available for download.

So what exactly does "radio reception improving drastically" mean exactly? I've found it either works or doesn't and the stupid list isn't generated on-the-fly (as it should be) to show only transmitting sites. Does this mean *that* is fixed? Or are we talking about the average lousy 32kb/sec streams are higher quality?

"... at least is plays WMA streams" I'm confused about this one since just about all the streams I typically find that are working have always been WMA??

Still can't specify our own stations? Crud. Could you please post a link to the work around/HOW-TO? Based on what I'm inferring, I just need to port-forward off the proxy setting or something (which is easy enough) but exactly how to setup a list of channels is what I'm dubious about.

Lastly, so did this firmware also add any new 5.1 decoding (i.e., the Prologic IIx mentioned)? I didn't see any other version since the .18. Where is the other?

Oops... found ebirbal's link and read it. Unfortunately I have such a tightly managed LAN inside the house that I'd rather not stick another server online unless it's a lightweight app. Ideally, someone should just setup a service for all of us to point to. Bandwidth would be minimal since we're not pulling anything but XML. Then layer in (perhaps) a secure login to manage our content or something and we'd be good-to-go. Essentially, provided the IR station has a static address, all it takes is one round through such a site and I'll be able to finally setup favorites for all my stations and be done with it (i.e., no more directory required) :)

Just because the Net-Tune unit doesn't successfully connect with an Internet Radio station does not mean that the station is not transmitting. It could be because it has connnected the maximum number of simultaneous streams that are supported.

Eric

But what's about the new Nettune Integrated version ? I like the idea because RMP is easier to handle than the old Nettune GUI - at leat from my point of view. Unfortunately for me it is not possible to get my MP3's registered by the server. After importing all my files to the library i manually start the 'upgrade database" option in the system tray icon. After some time it exits but i cannot see any files on the receiver. Even if i restart the server all imported files are gone. Did someone else observed this bahaviour ?


Anyone tried the new Nettune Integrated version? I still couldn't manage to get my files registered and displayed by the client.

Thanks, Martin

CJOnkyo,

So what exactly does "radio reception improving drastically" mean exactly?
These receivers had a real tough time playing WMA streams before the recent firmware updates were made available. The new firmware addresses this issue. Its possible that you might have bought your receiver recently, and it came with the newer firmware and thus didnt have to go though the pain and agony the rest of us did.

"... at least is plays WMA streams"
Same as above... so while the quality of the stations are still 32kbps, we are happy to see the "Buffering..." message instead of "Not Connect"

"I didn't see any other version since the .18. Where is the other?"
I checked the Onkyo international site and it displayes different download options depending on the model # you choose in the preceding screens. For my model TX-NR801, after you enter the serial #, you are taken to a page where you have the option to download 3 different files:
1. FWETX901-010003.zip
2. FWETX901-020003.zip
3. ntcINT200E.zip

The first two are firmware updates and the third one is the NetTune Central 2.0 Integrated software. There aren't any clear instructions on which firmware to download. I have applied FWETX901-010003.zip to my receiver TX-NR801 which upgraded the firmware version to 01.00.03. I know Onkyo recently released an upgraded version of my model with ProLogic IIx capabilities and I am *GUESSING* FWETX901-020003.zip is meant for those models.

"Ideally, someone should just setup a service for all of us to point to.
I dont want to give away too much info just yet, but we're working on it, and I have a working prototype on my home computer :) If our solution works out, users wouldnt have to set up the proxy server to play their favourite stations.

Perhaps you might want to try a different approach by patching the firmware updates (just incase our project goes ka-put). Here's what I can tell you:
The firmware files have the extention .mot and are in the Motorola S-record format. The receiver searches for the domain xiva-net.com to retrieve the list of radio stations. You can patch this to make it look at say, an IP on your network (I can provide you with the complete Xiva "protocol" that we have already developed) and see if you can play your own stations. I can provide you with additional details, as to where to apply the patch in the firmware files and how to calculate the checksums. Because this involves the risk of damaging your receiver, possibly permanently, I would rather keep this approach as the last option if our project does not work out. (Poking around a bit at the firmware files, I guess it *MIGHT* be possible to patch it to enable terminal services on it, but right know I would call it mere speculation rather than an informed statement)

Uapf3,

Did you do both firmware updates?
No. Only FWETX901-010003.zip

Another observation was that the songs in some albums don't play back in the order that they are shown in win media player. Will the firmware update fix this?
Havent checked this yet... will let you know

Does the firmware update destroy your fix for playing your own stations?
Thankfully, no. My fix continues to work just fine.

Maziggy,
I still couldn't manage to get my files registered and displayed by the client.
You need to right click on the nettune icon in the system tray and choose "update database". Did you do that ?

Maziggy,

You need to right click on the nettune icon in the system tray and choose "update database". Did you do that ?

Yep, did that but although the files will not be displayed by the client at all. The Onkyo says "no albums" and "no artists". Also tried to install the software on a newly installed Windows machine to make sure that the problem cause is not the server host. The old Nettune software is still working properly.

Any help is highly appreciated.

Thanks, Martin

Thanks Ebirbal !

No, I think I'll wait to see how your project goes before I risk damaging my receiver. This puppy wasn't cheap after all. And on that note, no, I was actually one of the first people to get one of these when they came out... so nope, I don't have any newer model with new firmware. I get "Not Connected" just as often as you and assumed the stations were likely dead (not transmitting). I guess I didn't think about the possibility of the servers being full or that the receiver didn't understand the stream. As I've said before, I'm used to using Winamp on the PC in the office and all the real stations (i.e., not broadcast out of a college dorm but rather trying to make a go at being a real competitor to terestrial and satellite offerings) are *never* busy. I think I'd be happy if someone could provide me a redirect long enough to set a preset for Club977.com (great 80s station) and SmoothJazz.com (nice relaxing new age jazz for doing work by). Just those two stations would make me happy since they've got extremely high quality streams (smoothjazz just released a plug-in for Winamp that allows for a 192kbit stream even!).

So yes, I'm rather excited about your project.

So it sounds like no harm in doing the upgrade though (other than the fact that I'll have to reset all my surround settings)? The Onkyo USA guys still caution me against installing the patch from the "international" site. Jeez... those guys blab just enough to make me worry that I'll bust something if I don't wait for some "blessed" version from their lab of likely one or two people :)

P.s. - For my NR900 I only saw the (1) firmware plus the new Net Tune WMP plug-in (the integrated thing). So I guess that makes it easy... although the whole point of upgradable firmware was the ability to add new Dolby decoding schemes to our amps and if they're only offering it for other amps, I'd be a little peeved (unless my one firmware includes it)... hmmm...

So it sounds like no harm in doing the upgrade though (other than the fact that I'll have to reset all my surround settings)? The Onkyo USA guys still caution me against installing the patch from the "international" site. Jeez... those guys blab just enough to make me worry that I'll bust something if I don't wait for some "blessed" version from their lab of likely one or two people :)


I'm still a bit leery about doing the fw update on my 801. Has anyone heard any confirmation from Onkyo that a U.S. update will be made available? One of the big selling points for me when I purchased the 801 was the ability to play internet radio streams. As it stands now, I only use it to watch movies & the occasional retrieval/play of mp3's off my PC. Still frustrated...

Thanks ebirbal!

Good to know! I'm honestly not crazy about the Nettune v2 (regular version) since I've noted it creates/deletes a bunch of tmp files that Norton picks up in it's "protected deleted folder". Yes, I could blacklist the location, but I'm just trying to save on redundant I/Os every second. I also plan to update to the new Microsoft OneCare Live for A/V this weekend... so we'll see how they play together.

I'm REALLY excited over the firmware thing since I'm going to be optimistic until I hear anything negative about the internet radio. After all, there are *thousands* of great 'net radio sites out there (just look at the directory in Winamp ... heck even XMRadio is mirrored there!). It would be nice to stream it into the living room and not only listen upstairs. Plus it keeps me from finding an Audiotron, Roku, etc. instead.

Can't wait to hear more!

Tip of the day.
In apdating a firmware update in a hardware, it is extremely essential that one does have proper documentation written explicitly. Most important of all is that the slower the computer the better. Other problems encountered are as a result of too many device drivers initiated upon windows startup at some point system may lockup. That can get nasty. Choose a good RS232 cable. Most cables used for upgrade are "straight through type" RS232. Most consumer hardwares do not use "crossed RS232". For some computers it is best to disable screen saver settings. "you do not ever want either the computer nor the device power be interrupted while upgrading.

eng.desk
ethics

you do not ever want either the computer nor the device power be interrupted while upgrading.
Here Here. I've bricked some hardware in my time. :D

Personally I am going to wait a bit.

I'm personally excited to try on my NR-900. Especially if it means a higher percentage of stations will work all-the-sudden. And RS-232? Jeez, I thought those went the way of the dinosaur and Apple //e's :) The NR-900 uses ethernet... but I would definitely plan to kill the screen saver... as well as watch the entire process like a hawk (akin to watching grass grow I gather). But I still do share Spork's concern as I'm sure OnkyoUSA would give me some crap if I screwed up something and didn't use *their* firmware... *sigh*

Do these upgrades and firmware work on an NR-1000 as well?

thanks!

FYI All - The firmware updates were posted on OnkyoUSA this weekend. I pulled them down and did a comparison and can't see *any* difference in *any* file. We just had to wait (2) months to get their "blessing"...

So my plan is to finally run her some time this week, after I write down all my settings and such. Here's hoping things will work a little more nicely afterwards.

Still got my fingers crossed for ebirbal's project being successful too :)

FYI All - The firmware updates were posted on OnkyoUSA this weekend. I pulled them down and did a comparison and can't see *any* difference in *any* file. We just had to wait (2) months to get their "blessing"...



I seem to be able to download every firmware update except the one I need for the TX-NR801 (I end up with a zero byte file). I wanted to compare it to the one I got from the Intl. site. Anybody else have the same problem?

I seem to be able to download every firmware update except the one I need for the TX-NR801 (I end up with a zero byte file). I wanted to compare it to the one I got from the Intl. site. Anybody else have the same problem?

I ran into the same problem. I tried downloading the update for 901 and it appears it will work with the 801 as well (documentation applies to both devices).

Anybody have a link?

Okay... I made the leap to finally do the firmware update last night. I used the PDF and wrote down all my surround settings and such. I then went to the PC and ran the updater program for 1.00.18 (for my NR900) and then back to the receiver to start the "Update Utility". It started just fine, it found my "mSVR" correctly, and then I hit enter and when it should have told me my current firmware version, I got "F/W: Not Found" ... WTF????

So I backed out and went to "2. F/W Version" and hit enter. I got "Ver: Unknown" ... again, WTF???

The point of this is that even though it apparently didn't know my firmware, it also wouldn't let me update it with the new one! Once it said "Not Found" I couldn't get to the "Update OK?" to start things off.

HELP??!

FYI 2 - Just spoke with Onkyo USA support this afternoon and they're checking into it. Of course (as goes with my wonderful luck) they've had "no issues in their lab".

I also told her, the unit works perfectly, including NetTune, etc. Yes, I want to improve my NetTune reception and such and get the benefits of the firmware update, but nothing is broken in functionality. *sigh* She told me she'll get back to me no later than tomorrow *double sigh*

I plan to also ask about the 901 apparently being able to load the new Integra firmware successfully (or so I've read on other forums) which *can* apparently give you the new ProLogic IIx or something. I'm a bit pissed that new surround decoding formats aren't being pushed to all units. After all that was the big selling point for these things and if I can't get access to it, I'm going to be in not the greatest of moods when I chat with "support".

Anyhow... I did some searching on Google last night for my "unknown" firmware issue and could only find a reference on some german site, which when translated by the Google engine, didn't really help much. The english was a little too broken to get anything out of it.

Hopefully I'll have better luck here... or with support...

HELP!? :)

Anybody have a link?
http://www.onkyousa.com/download/software.cfm

FYI:

I spoke to Onkyo USA tech support and they told me they're having problems with their servers which accounts for the problem I've been having downloading the firmware update for my TX-NR801 (zero byte file), and they would contact me when everything is OK.

All -

Update on my issue. I just got off the phone with Onkyo USA tech (again) and they were able to replicate my issues by apparently have NetTunes running in the background. So they recommended removing it from the Start menu and rebooting. I told them I typically do a right-click -> exit on it when it starts up and shut it down anyway (only running it when I need it) but she said it apparently leaves a process running (typical crappy software from Japan :)). So I need to give this a shot. If it works, I'll report back tomorrow morning!

They're still having problems with their servers. I'm going to wait for a few more people to report on their success with the firmware before I give it a shot. If it really does help with the internet radio stations, then I'm all for it.

Success! Apparently the NetTune app is garbage in keeping itself clean on a device and even if you kill the app from the system tray it still leaves (2) processes running in the background... which secretly conflict with the "ntupdate" app. So they need to be killed prior. I used Windows Defender to locate them (looking for things registered to Onkyo Corp) but tech support also recommended just pulling NetTune from your start menu and just rebooting if you don't feel comfortable with that.

Anyhow... afterwards I was able to successfully pull down 1.00.18 on my NR900. Took about 20 mins over my gigabit LAN total.

I can confirm that yes, you should write down all your settings for your ports as they'll all be reset (i.e., what OPT connection is mapped to DVD, Video 1, etc... all that stuff). Oddly, the *only* thing that did *not* get overwritten was my network settings. I didn't need to re-enter my IP, DHCP settings, proxy, etc. All of that was kept... which was good since the UI doesn't make it all that fun to retype :)

Anyhow... post-update I can report that the Xiva stuff now works nearly 99%. I tried a whole bunch and only one station didn't work. Quality on most were still at a lackluster 32kbit/sec WMA but I was just happy to get the feature working. Next it'll be nice to see if Ebirbal gets his server up so we can all redirect through him for our own settings. In the meantime I made my request to Onkyo/Xiva to start supporting my streams. Hopefully they get off their butts and do it PDQ :)

Success here too. Followed the instructions in the intl version (I have a US NR801) pdf explicitly. Waited the obligatory 20-25mins and hey presto, lots more nettune stations now work. Can't say I got 99% but I was looking for European stations at 0200 their time.

Also did the netune central integrated update - ta for the change SN# tip - a few goes and I got in. Upgraded my WMP from 9 to 10 - got some errors (plugin related) so carried on to the new WMP11 beta. Not sure that WMP11 is needed as its still disables the nettune plugin - since it gets an error. I just left it disabled and manually update the database as per the help file.

All in all, an improvement.

Peter

So, uh, anyone have a packet sniffer or do I have to try that myself. I am curious as to how to gain access to this black box and start tinkering.

As for the projects... I am REALLY trying to work my butt off to get some results but things are not behaving. I really, really am! It mostly boils down to trying to installing and running PC software on my Mac. (If only this were a windows-only world you may say... Well, blah to you! :p) And having 2 servers on 24/7 is not a financial possibility right now.

On a side note, I actually had a nightmare a few nights ago involving the source code from these two projects. How's that for dedication!

Mr Spork,

I used URL Snooper, Seemed to work for me. www.donationcoder.com

I updated my TX NR-801 firmware using FWETX901-010003.zip and I also installed Net-Tune Central 2 Integrated. I forwarded the default port in the router to my PC and I can play songs from the library on my PC but I get a "disconnected" message on the receiver whenever I try to connect to the Net-Tune servers. I'm stumped as to what I might be overlooking, can anybody help?

What's the "default port" you forwarded? The NetTune port (60039, or whatever)? You don't need to do that since the PC and receiver are on the same LAN subnet. Port forwarding is only for directing specific WAN traffic to specific LAN devices. So no matter what you setup on your port forwarding, you'll be able to stream from your PC. However, if you're forwarding the nettune port to your PC (as I'm assuming here) the Onkyo won't get 'any' of the traffic from Xiva and hence display disconnected.

Hello,
I successfully completed the firmware upgrade on my TX-NR801 but am having trouble downloading Net-Tune Central 2 Integrated with my serial number. I've seen posts on this board talking about altering the serial number but not sure what they're referring to. Can someone offer some help?
Thanks!

Hello,
I successfully completed the firmware upgrade on my TX-NR801 but am having trouble downloading Net-Tune Central 2 Integrated with my serial number. I've seen posts on this board talking about altering the serial number but not sure what they're referring to. Can someone offer some help?
Thanks!
I just inserted 0000001 after the first three digits in my serial number and it worked for me...

What's the "default port" you forwarded? The NetTune port (60039, or whatever)? You don't need to do that since the PC and receiver are on the same LAN subnet. Port forwarding is only for directing specific WAN traffic to specific LAN devices. So no matter what you setup on your port forwarding, you'll be able to stream from your PC. However, if you're forwarding the nettune port to your PC (as I'm assuming here) the Onkyo won't get 'any' of the traffic from Xiva and hence display disconnected.
Thanks CJ, I guess I'm at the point where I just forward ports in my firewall without thinking :o. I made a mistake in my original post, port 60039 was actually forwarded to the Onkyo which I gave a static IP. Does it stream everything on port 60039 or does it also use port 80?

I got a Roku M500 (the discount code is still good - M5SUMMER9) and in less than a minute I was listening to internet streams and inserting my own URLs, if only NetTune was that easy :( .

I'll keep trying to see what's the problem and post the solution if I can find one.....

Yes... if only... but at least now I've been finding streams left and right that while their quality is only so-so at least it's net-based music finally :) I feel like our own streams are within reach... essentially if the receiver can see the firmware update utility this easily then we should be able to stick a custom app in there to set up custom URLs.

Heck, I'm amazed they didn't set this up like Turtle Beach did their great little Audiotron. Essentially you setup your own account and populate your presets there. When you power up the device, it calls the site and poof, all your presets are set. They could *easily* combine this customizing functionality with the Xiva search (for those thousands who likely have never gotten into online radio before but would like to). *sigh*

Hello everyone. First of all, thanks for all the great posts, it has helped quite a bit with my TX-NR801. I wonder if the new version of Net-Tune will work without having to update the firmware. I read that is a requirement, but wanted to double check with the group.

CJOnkyo,

You can patch this to make it look at say, an IP on your network (I can provide you with the complete Xiva "protocol" that we have already developed) and see if you can play your own stations.

Ebirbal - I've been looking for the XIVA protocol - I've gotten some raw "sniffs" but there's a low S/N ratio in all the stuff captured.

Is the protocol something that you captured that the Onkyo receiver is actually using to speak to the XIVA site - or to NetTunes?

Can I get documentation of the protocol from you?

Regards,
Mark

This is more than you ever wanted to know...
http://sporknet.game-server.cc/~web/XiVALink.zip

:)

Oh yea. I guess I should update a bit. My summer is winding down pretty quickly and I have to pick classes again. Ugh. Anyways, the .NET solution never did run successfully on my computer and since I spent the last month on that alone, I am making a last-ditch effort on the PHP solution.

If someone has a old laptop that runs .NET, I'll pay shipping. (Desktops use to much power and I have to hide it from my server-hating overlords) My Bro just got a new laptop but I'm not sure he wants to part with his old one anytime soon.

cao73,

You can install the Net tune central integrated and it will work. You may end up with some of the issues in my earlier post around playback order, but that will be no different to what you have now. It is worth doing just for the windows media player versatility. When you do the firmware update this will rectify itself. Mine did anyway. The test album I used was Aerosith Pump. No comments on taste now.

Cheers

mswope63,

I dont have much idea about the NetTune Protocol; but this is what I know about the Xiva Internet Radio Protocol:

The receiver makes HTTP calls to http://portal05.xiva-net.com/IRDS/irds.jsp which responds by presenting different XML documents based on the query string parameters passed to it. There are basically two different XML document schemas - one contains the list of available Genres, Locations & Languages and the other contains a list of radio stations.

When it connects to Xiva for first time (upon startup), it gets the list of Generes/Locations & Languages available and subsequently uses this information to get the list of stations based on the selection you make on the receiver. The list of stations can be retrieved based on Location/Genre/Language or the ID of the station like this:

http://portal05.xiva-net.com/IRDS/irds.jsp?Format=audio/x-scpls%20audio/x-mpegurl%20application/vnd.ms-asf&Genre=10.000

When you choose a particular station on your receiver, it calls irds.jsp with the appropriate ID of the station. Ditto when you select any preset stations:

http://portal05.xiva-net.com/IRDS/irds.jsp?Format=audio/x-scpls%20audio/x-mpegurl%20application/vnd.ms-asf&ID=63

This about sums up the Xiva Internet Radio Protocol. The whole protocol can be put together in a day or less. I hope this explains it a bit.

It's so simple it sounds like we could almost temporarily setup the receiver's proxy server with an address to a mini-app that provides the XMLs to the receiver and fools it into thinking it's actually reached the WAN (but hasn't). I guess there are a few other nuances that prevent it from being so simple... but in the worst case someone should be able to run something as lightweight as a web page that mirrors the functionality of Turtle Radio for the Audiotrons... with secure accounts and all that and we just repoint. The pseudo-proxy would take care of making it look like it came from the right place.

Amazing that they just don't allow such a simple thing at this point. Even more amazing is that I heard a rumor over a year ago that they were running firmware in Japan that allowed direct entry *and* could stream pictures over the thing and output via the usual menu composite out! That came directly from a tech support guy in NJ... but after two successful chats and subsequent anticipation, nothing came of it. *sigh*

Hmm, what a brilliant idea! ;)

But ohh! pictures! Now that is one heck of a rumor.

Fresh rumor blood... mmmmmm tasty!

Yeah, I was thinking on the same lines too while working on my project; but like you said, there are a few nuances. From a practical point of view, the most important thing is how to identify individual receivers so that it can be presented with the right list of (customized) stations.

1. Using IP's to distinguish receivers wouldn't work for people with dynamic IP's (myself included)
2. Cookies. IF (again, IF) the receiver is able to store cookies, it might just work. BUT before you place a cookie, you still need to make sure you are storing the cookie in the right receiver and not any random receiver connecting to our service. This brings us back to square one.
3. I did notice some "numbers" being passed as PRAGMA headers by the receiver while making the HTTP requests, but can't recollect if those headers were present for ALL request (which is what we want) or only while requesting the actual stations/playlists. Will have to check on this one. If this works, this would better than using cookies. But just like with cookies, we first need to establish the right receiver for the right user (account)

Of course, before all this happens, we first got to go "live" with anything at all :o . I do have it in my roadmap though ;)

Ebirbal,
Thanks - i'd gathered most of what you'd posted from the caps that I have. I'd hoped that someone had a grasp of the Net Tunes protocol - it doesn't seem to line up with what Xiva has published with their protocols.

Mark

Ah.... It just keeps getting worse...
I tried to do the update and the receiver reports a failure after 99% of the first file.
There's no way to do the other two files.

Interestingly:
- the firmware version is reported as the latest version - 1.00.03
- after trying about 6 time to use the Onkyo firmware updater that came with the firmware, I found that I could restart the onkyo Net Tunes server and use it to serve the firmware too. (when using the Onkyo firmware updater, I did kill the NetTunes server, kill its startup and rebooted my machine).

It still fails at 99%, however. Most annoying - at least this one file is small and only takes about 5 minutes.

Overall, it's encouraging that so many people got their updates to work... I may simply be missing some finer point on the process....

Mark

Silly me... I was downloading from the OnkyoUSA site. I'd noticed that several people referred to the international site and Net Tunes Central Integrated... I set out to find it and found... different software?

I'll try it and see if this stuff works - I've nothing to lose now...

BTW - for the curious - the International site's download url is : http://www.intl.onkyo.com/products/net-tune/download/index.html

Silly me... I was downloading from the OnkyoUSA site. I'd noticed that several people referred to the international site and Net Tunes Central Integrated... I set out to find it and found... different software?

I'll try it and see if this stuff works - I've nothing to lose now...

BTW - for the curious - the International site's download url is : http://www.intl.onkyo.com/products/net-tune/download/index.html

Well, I got *further* before the upgrade failed. I used the TX901-020003 firmware and it got past the first file okay, but in the second (larger file, I think), it got to 67% slowly, jump immediately to 99% and then failed. I got the same result several times.

Just to recap, I used the firmware downloaded from the OnkyoUSA site first:
TX901-010003 - it got to 99% on the first file and failed. I tried this at least 8 times w/ exactly the same results.

Then I found the Onkyo International site (URL above) and tried the same version of firmware, just in case my copy from the USA site was defective - same result.

Finally, i tried the next version from the international site: TX901-020003. I got past the first file about 2/3 through the second file and got failed again.

In all cases, after the failure, my receiver (TX-NR801) showed the firmware version that I had been trying to download. I'm just unnerved at not having done the full firmware download.

I have noted that the Inettunes work (seem somewhat better, but still not the way that the marketing material would have you believe).

I've updated my NetTunes to the NTC2 Integrated version - it didn't appear to work anymore, but I had to leave at this point.

Overall, I haven't finished putting my receiver settings back in (speakers, inputs, zone 2, etc.) so I can't tell if anything else is amiss, but it seems to still work. So maybe I didn't wreck anything, but still didn't necessarily make things better....

More later...

Mark

mswope63,

Why are you using the 901 firmware update when you have a tx nr801? Just a thought or a typo.

Cheers