<<Splitting the signal to watch HD directly on your TV won't work unless you have a QAM tuner built-in to your TV (very unlikely). Splitting the signal will only get you the basic cable channels (2-99), none of the digital channels>>

Of course, I had forgotten that...I don't know what I was thinking...thanks for the info

i don't even have a 6212 yet (i have 2 6208's) but i have also noticed an apparent drop in HD resolution over the past week, more so on the pay movie channels than on INHD 1 and 2 (which still look great).

one of the reasons i switched from DirecTV to Comcast was that they weren't compressing their HD signal...argh....

any other people noticing this?

oleus, YES, read a few posts back. There are many people from many different Cox areas that are complaining that HD picture quality has decreased significantly. The running assumption is that the recent headend changes to try to address the "HD tiling" issue is the cause of the problem - and even so the tiling issue is still not entirely resolved anyway. Hopefully VideoooooGuy will provide some feedback sometime soon. I think it would be best to restore the headends to what they were before (assuming this is the cause) - the tiling issue only affects some of us with the 6412, but the lower HD picture quality affects everyone with HD service and does much more harm.

VideoooGuy,

Please tell your coworkers that the apparent head end fix has made things worse by reducing the HDPQ for everyone! Yes, the tiling has been significantly reduced, but at what cost? My SD moto box in my bedroom now has superior PQ to the HD 6412. This is unacceptable. HBO is unwatchable, and CBS Football, once beautiful HD, is now full of macro blocking on nearly every play (live not recording, with the other tuner set to SD).

niesman

well i don't think HBO looks unwatchable on my 6208, so maybe something different is going on with the 6212.

i thought i had seen a dip in PQ but it is not as drastic as you were mentioning....

oleus, how are you doing. I also have a 6208 under beta test with my cable company and I also have DirecTV for comparison. Using the eye, I cannot tell any difference between the two sources. If I were using a HTPC and could monitor bit streams I could make a more conclusive statement. I suspect the PQ degradation is not a 6412 problem but more a cable company induced degradation. Just a guess.

I'm glad to see more of you post on the PQ issues, but not so happy we have to deal with it.
Small rant....forgive me....
While it's a major pet peeve of mine to have products brought to market before they've been fully tested (either as standalone items or as they interact with other devices), I do understand that with technologies advancing as fast as they are today, this may be a fact of life in our times. However, companies that can deal with these issues quickly and fairly for their customers rather than waiting for the barrage of complaints to act, will continue to have the support of my $$'s. Those who don't....won't.
Yes, a shameless jab.....again...please forgive me.

In order to offer better information that may help fix the problem, the PQ issues I see can be summed up in 3 categories...
1. There has been a distinct drop in resolution...What once was stunning to look at, now barely looks better than what S-Video can resolve.
2. The color depth seems to have dropped significantly. What was once rich, and gave the image it's incredible lifelike quality, now seems flat and lifeless.
3. The blocking, tiling, or pixelization (whatever you want to call it today) that fills the screen on fast moving scenes. I beleive this is related to bit rate, and is not the same problem previously experienced when the box was trying to record multiple HD signals.

I will also say that I know this problem may not be related to the "fix at the head end" Cox has implemented, another theory may be related to a major increase in new HD customers in our neighborhoods that force the continued splitting & therefore degradation of the signal. However, it really does seem that the former is much more likely.
Either way, I sincerely wish we could get these problems solved quickly.

Thanks

jlawlertnf,

Well stated.

niesman

I just experienced my first no record situation. I have ER set as a series to record new episodes only in HD - channel 700 on COX in CT. We went to watch last night - Sunday - and the show was in my list of saved shows, but the record time was 9:58-9:58. Obviously there was nothing there. The wife was not happy, big ER fan! Did anyone else have the same problem? I admit I did not check to see if it was scheduled to record, and I did not check at 10 pm to see if it was recording. I will do that in the future.

rstang8691, scroll back a couple of pages or more and read this thread - the 0-minute recording bug is a well known reported major bug that Cox is working on (no fix yet and no ETA given on a fix).

On Video Bypass, the 6412 does not have an RF Out like previous Moto boxes, so if you turn it OFF you get nothing. You could split the cable if you want basic analog cable to watch.

On my main issue of NO SCHEDULED Recordings Possible, I've been unable to get any scheduled recordings, all were zero length. Yesterday I left the 6412 ON all day and for the first time since the dual tuner upgrade. It recorded Cold Case last night.

I'm thinking back to my talk with Cox support when the tech told me (incorrectly, per VideooooGuy)) that the box would not update it's guide or receive S/W updates if always left ON. So I programmed my home control system to turn the 6412 OFF when the HT was off. All of the recordings that this box has failed to make have been with the box OFF.

I'll leave it ON this week and see if it's consistant.

I also see severe PQ degradation.

Here's a good example - the HBO "fly over" preview that preceeds many movies is now breaking up into tiles during many of the motion scenes. I doubt HBO would broadcast it this way.

Bad Boys II on HBO HD on Saturday night was so bad that I stopped watching it.

edit: I stopped watching it because of bad PQ...

Originally posted by Rich4av
Bad Boys II on HBO HD on Saturday night was so bad that I stopped watching it.

Sorry Rich, but you must be more specific. Did you stop watching Bad Boys II because the PQ was so bad or because the movie itself was so bad? I stopped watching due to the latter. :)

I REPEATEDLY have the zero length bug on CBS. And frankly, only on CBS. It's driving me nuts.

I don't feel that there has been PQ problems in my location. I do notice that there is a pretty good range between programming on the HD movie channels though, but that is more related to the transfer from film than to output issues, it sounds like some were experiencing tiling to a high degree and other than what has been discussed here previously it AINT always the cable co.'s fault.

As far as PQ goes I am pretty darn happy right now, after 3 weeks without. My unsubstantiated opinion is that it is better, except for the movie channels which are always marginal at best for HD due to the previously mentioned issues. I also have the benefit of comparing HD cable PQ to OTA and I can't see squat in difference, and I have a pretty fair system to evaluate it on. (see profile if curious)

Well,

I have it (0 length recordings) on other stations besides CBS, including analog AND "regular" Digital stations, not just HD.

--Walburga

I do a series recording of NBC Nightly News on Channel 704. Typically, I get 1-2 zero-length recordings a week.

Originally posted by jlawlertnf
The blocking, tiling, or pixelization (whatever you want to call it today) that fills the screen on fast moving scenes. I beleive this is related to bit rate, and is not the same problem previously experienced when the box was trying to record multiple HD signals.
I have come up with a new acronym that describes the problem: Changes that have Resulted in Artifacting & Pixelization (CRAP)

After several days of no tiling, I had terrible problems with it last night in Palos Verdes on both ABCHD and CBSHD. Everything was fine if I didn't touch the swap, play, stop, pause, ff or rewind. Once I used any of these functions, I would begin to get tiling. I eventually gave up and just watched the show live.

My conclusion: in its current state, the box is great if you want to record entire shows while you are gone, but if you want to watch multiple shows simultaneously, skip commercials, time-shift etc there are likely to be problems at times.

More weirdness:

Last night I scheduled recordings simultaneously on INHD1 and INHD2 during the night, just to see how it would work. I tuned both tuners to SD channels before I turned the box off. I also have the box set to turn on Channel 2 when the box is first turned on.

Both programs recorded and saved. However, when I turned on the box this morning, the first tuner was on Channel 2 but the second tuner was still tuned to INHD2 and had already been buffering for almost an hour!

I don't understand this at all. It appears to me that when the box records something on the second tuner, the second tuner REMAINS on that channel until you manually change it, even if the box is set to startup on a different channel (i.e. the second tuner does not go back to the channel it was on when you turned off the box, nor does it go to the "startup" channel).

More frustrating, I have no idea whatsoever why the box would be buffering a channel when the box is turned off and no recording is scheduled. I suppose it doesn't really matter, but I don't like the idea of the box doing something that I didn't ask it to do.

Has anyone else noticed this?

Damon

Originally posted by DWillens666
More frustrating, I have no idea whatsoever why the box would be buffering a channel when the box is turned off and no recording is scheduled. I suppose it doesn't really matter, but I don't like the idea of the box doing something that I didn't ask it to do.
The box is buffering both tuners to disk all the time it seems - I hear write activity continuously on the box which is the same whether it's turned on or off. Thankfully the box doesn't sit in the bedroom so the resulting noise is not really an issue, but I wish that turning off the box would stop any buffering to disk as is the case with my ReplayTVs. I can imagine the lifetime of the hard drives in these units will be very short due to the constant dual-write.

Originally posted by dresf
I don't feel that there has been PQ problems in my location. I do notice that there is a pretty good range between programming on the HD movie channels though, but that is more related to the transfer from film than to output issues, it sounds like some were experiencing tiling to a high degree and other than what has been discussed here previously it AINT always the cable co.'s fault.

As far as PQ goes I am pretty darn happy right now, after 3 weeks without. My unsubstantiated opinion is that it is better, except for the movie channels which are always marginal at best for HD due to the previously mentioned issues. I also have the benefit of comparing HD cable PQ to OTA and I can't see squat in difference, and I have a pretty fair system to evaluate it on. (see profile if curious)

I agree. I know someone at COX and he says that KS is, I believe, the 2nd largest COX market nationwide, and because of that, no COX employees can get a DVR til early next year. And I think because of our huge market, they're making sure we're being taken care of by not releasing the dual tuning software until all the bugs are squashed AND not screwing with our PQ. But we'll see on the 13th when we finally get the upgrade.

Oh and anyone bitching and moaning about COX and/or the box, I suggest switching to directTV, fork over 1000 bucks for a tivo and record all of it in glorious SD.....I mean enhanced-480p-looking-HD. :)

Originally posted by quicksilver


Oh and anyone bitching and moaning about COX and/or the box, I suggest switching to directTV, fork over 1000 bucks for a tivo and record all of it in glorious SD.....I mean enhanced-480p-looking-HD. :)

quicksiver,

The new direct tv hd dvr (HR10-250 HD) is 720p/1081i, dual tuner, and most importantly, it works! Cox has yet to demonstrate in the field that the 6412 does. By the way the 250 is for 250 gig. I agree that the Cox pricing structure (even for those of us in Orange County, CA where Cox gouges at every turn) is a very attractive reason to stay the course through this difficult time. I am willing to give Cox a shot at their November firmware update to resolve ALL of these issues and give us back the excellent PQ that we had a year ago (even INHD and discovery now look muted and dull). After November, I am sure that Direct TV suppliers of the HR10-250 HD will be giving Christmas discounts. Come December, even $1000 (no discount) will seem cheap for a system that delivers.

niesman

Originally posted by moyekj
I can imagine the lifetime of the hard drives in these units will be very short due to the constant dual-write.

That's exactly what I was thinking. But for only $4.95/mo extra to rent the box, I can live with it. If it fails Cox can have it back and give me a new one. If I had to purchase the box I think I would be very concerned.

Damon

Originally posted by jlawlertnf
I'm glad to see more of you post on the PQ ...

I called yesterday to complain about the degradation in HD PQ on HBO-HD and SHO-HD during scene changes and fast action which anonyed the heck out of me all weekend. Note, I havn't noticed this problem on INHD 1/2, only HBO/SHO. It was REALLY bad on Karate Kid on SHO-HD

The problem was the tech kept saying "Yes, it's a known problem the the DVR's called 'tiling' and they're working on it..." I'd interrupt and say "NO NO NO, this isn't the same thing I had/have that too, but this is a CRAPPY over compressed picture, the tiling thing was when we'd get little 'tears' or 'blotches' here and there on the screen. This is the whole screen getting over compressed on scene changes and fast action." ..again... "yeah that's what it is they're working on"...

Videooguy, SOMEONE tell the techs their are TWO problems:
The first was the garbage that would pop up if you used FF/RR/Pause on HD recordings.
The second is seriously bad PQ on HBO/SHO. FWIW, this is the exact same problem I had watching the Olympics on NBC-HD when I had a DCT6200.

The PQ is WORST when there is a scene with rippling water in it for example: swimming/water polo during the Olympics or the scene in Karate Kid this weekend when he's standing on the bow of the boat learning to balance, etc... The the hole frigging picture keeps blocking like crazy trying to keep up with the image detail. This has NOTHING to do with the first problem and shouldn't have anything to do with the DVR if the DVR is in fact directly recording the transport stream to disk. It is a problem with over compression either from the source or somewhere in Cox's head-end hardware.

Videoooguy, could you please acknowledge/address this? Is it the "head end fix" causing problems? I'm guessing rather than addressing the problem of the content providers "switching bit rates" that was causing the "first" problem they are just forcing the bit rate down on everything and hence the eternally crappy PQ.

Thanks!
BTW,
I have a DCT6412 in Orange County, CA

well i watched a lot of HD today on my 6208, and i really do think there is a lot more compression, especially on HBO but i think it is affecting all of the HD channels.


this is Comcast in atlanta using a 6208.....


and i definitely see a change in color depth, btw.......

this blows

Originally posted by oleus
.... i really do think there is a lot more compression, especially on HBO but i think it is affecting all of the HD ..........this blows

I don't think, I know, that all of the HD stations are suffering.

niesman

and yes, this does blow

well this is a troubling development since COmcast wasn't compressing their HD signal until now

Originally posted by DWillens666
I have no idea whatsoever why the box would be buffering a channel when the box is turned off and no recording is scheduled. I suppose it doesn't really matter, but I don't like the idea of the box doing something that I didn't ask it to do.

Ever turn on your TV and there is a show on or maybe an interesting news report that you wish you saw at the beginning? Well, BEFORE YOU CHANGE THE CHANNEL, you can look at what you've missed! You can even hit the Record button and save the entire program if you want. Make sure you do not have the option set to change the channel when you first turn it on or only one tuner will have buffered data, and probably not the one you want.

Although I find the noise of the disk somewhat irritating, there is a school of thought that not shutting the disk drive actually extends its life. I'm in the computer business and the drives in File Servers usually last longer than workstations because they never shut down. The starting and stopping of the drive for both electronic and physical reasons are worse than just letting it spin. The read/write heads never touch the surface of the disks, so there is no wear. Still, with this being said, I wish there was a menu option to turn the drive off, especially if you have the DVR in your bedroom.

Well, I just spent the last 30 min re-tweaking my TV in the service menu and changing the 6412 from 720p to 1080i. Theses changes have brought back most of the color depth and sharpness to the COX HD signals. The macro blocking on HBO is still there ( even on Matchstick men !), ABC MNF looks better, but swift moving logos after replays are blocking ( I have never seen this before on ABC).

niesman

Originally posted by sucha deal!
Ever turn on your TV and there is a show on or maybe an interesting news report that you wish you saw at the beginning? Well, BEFORE YOU CHANGE THE CHANNEL, you can look at what you've missed! You can even hit the Record button and save the entire program if you want. Make sure you do not have the option set to change the channel when you first turn it on or only one tuner will have buffered data, and probably not the one you want.

Perhaps I misunderstand what you said. I thought I read in the manual or somewhere that if you hit the record button after a program has already started, even if the entire program is in the buffer, it will only record from the point where you start the recording, not the entire program.

I am not in the computer business so I will not claim to be the most knowledgeable about the technicalities of hard drives ;)

Damon

That's my understanding as well, recording starts when you hit record.

On Drive life, I'm with the school of thought that is for keeping the drive spinning, BUT, spinning and continious reading/writing is something else. Even though the heads don't touch the platters, the head drive servo and components are getting quite a good workout. I would prefer that the drive just spin without buffering when the box is OFF.

It will affect the life of the drive, but then again I don't own it, so burn on!

Originally posted by DWillens666
Perhaps I misunderstand what you said. I thought I read in the manual or somewhere that if you hit the record button after a program has already started, even if the entire program is in the buffer, it will only record from the point where you start the recording, not the entire program. The buffer for each tuner only holds up to 30 minutes each. If you hit record on a show then the entire contents of that show that is in the buffer of that tuner (up to 30 mins earlier max) will also be automatically stored for future viewing along with the rest of the recording from that point. This was one of the enhancements of the 9.11 firmware.

Update on zero length recording and 6412 power (ON vs OFF)

There is no difference, I left it on and it still missed CSI Miami tonight.

I then tuned to 702, got the "not subscribed" banner for a few sec, pressed Record, and it began to record the show.

I know I should be patient for the fix, but I hate this!

Originally posted by Ed Rempalski
Update on zero length recording and 6412 power (ON vs OFF)

There is no difference, I left it on and it still missed CSI Miami tonight.

I then tuned to 702, got the "not subscribed" banner for a few sec, pressed Record, and it began to record the show.

I know I should be patient for the fix, but I hate this! Ed, out of curiosity what's your S/N ratio for 702? i.e. leave unit tuned to 702, turn off box and quickly hit "select" twice to bring up diagnostics and look at option 3 I believe to see the Signal/Noise ratio of that channel. I'm wondering if the subscription bug is related to input signal level/noise in any way. Most channels I've checked I get >=22dB S/N which the text describes as "good". A couple of analog channels show up as "fair" for me. AFAIK Cox is looking into this problem but haven't found the root cause of it yet - since you get the error very often we should be able to identify something different about your setup that may give a clue as to the problem.

is this drop in PQ differing from region to region? is it mainly affecting areas where the 6212 rollout has occured?

i hope atlanta is as slow to adopt the 6212 as they have with things like firmware.....

i see a drop in PQ compared to a couple of weeks ago but i still am not seeing macroblocking.

VideooooGuy,

The 6412 is outputting a signal on the component output even when off. This might be as simple as a sync signal. This is causing automatic switching equipment to stay switched to the STB even when it is off. Is there any chance that this can be fixed with a firmware update? Can you run this issue by Motorola and see what they have to say?

Thanks.

Ed

I know for sure that DVI doesn't send a signal when it is off.

My two ratios are 22-23 (good) and 18 (good). Does anyone have anything above good? If so, what have you done in terms of running new lines or amplification. Will it result in a better PQ?

HEH I've gotten a lot more than a sync signal through components while the box is OFF, I actually get full video output to the SIDES of where the video normally would be, like the 4:3 area of my HDTV is black but the widescreen space outside of that area has full HD Picture!!! I haven't seen this on SD channels I don't think, although I never tried, but DEFINITELY seen it on DiscoveryHD for example. When I turn the box on, the picture takes up the whole screen... Either way there is DEFINITELY signal coming out of the components even with the box off, it doesn't happen all the time but I've seen it more than once! I've also noticed a degradation in the HD quality, I don't watch a lot of HD but when I was showing someone DiscoveryHD the other day I definitely noticed it doesn't look nearly as stunning as it did when I first got the service a month or so ago...
Tom

Consistant is the word, I'm hosed virtually all the time. It seems that the only ways it works is if the tuner "I think, tuner 2, non visible" is already on the channel. It's like if it has to tune to the channel, it gets that brief "not subscribed" message and then aborts.


Tuned to 702, turned OFF,

Selection 3 - "OOB Status"
SNR varies between 21.4 to 22.9 "GOOD"
AGC - 14% "GOOD"

Selection 4 - "In-Band Status"
Tuner 1 - 256 QAM
SNR - 36.6 "GOOD"
AGC - 54% "GOOD"

Tuner 2 - Analog
SNR - blank
AGC - blank

On the component signals, mine has never shown video when the box is off. I gave up on auto switching a while back as a few boxes always put out video. I now use I/R switches and control it all with Pronto macros.

I noticed some horrible problems last night with MNF. BUT it was only with my OTA receiver. The 6412 did not have a hitch. OTA was unwatchable. And to the guy above that spoke about the horrible HD PQ during the Olympics, my PQ was horrible too, but that too was OTA not cable, the pool scenes and especially the diving was awful.

Point: Don't always assume the problem is at the cable providers end.

Hi and I am a new guy (first post) I have the Motorola 6412 from cox cable in Omaha Nebraska. First of all there have been 19 technicians to my house and at one time five trucks out front including two plant bucket trucks and two supervisors! They know about the poor reception and the clear almost transparent checker board effect across the whole screen on every channel including the HDTV. I am also experiencing the HDTV tile problem horizontally across the middle of the screen. What is really bad is that cox had set me up to use a bypass of the Motorola box to watch analog but now the 6412 does not have the cable out and I am getting tiling on the analog channels as well! I have the 9.11 firmware and the problems with the jagged edges and tilling. Is anything being done to correct this issue? Cox admits its all over town and that a head-end guy is looking into it. The problem is noticeable at Sam's club and at Nebraska furniture mart on pretty much all of the display televisions here in Omaha. I just cant believe how discovery hd looks so good but the other discovery digital channels are the worst of them all! Any water scene or fire scene will show the checkerboard effect at any time of day, what a mess!

Welcome to our nightmare, scatcat! It doesn't surprise me to see Cox doesn't have their act together in Nebraska either. I just don't understand why they would subject themselves to all this negative press by releasing a product they they know doesn't work yet. The good news is that by continuing to ship the 6412, Cox and Motorola will be under pressure to solve the problems quickly.

You should read this thread, especially the last two weeks as well as the Orange County thread to get you up to speed: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=273324

The 6412 I have is not hooked to an HDTV ,but I just tried a couple of the Discovery digital channels and I see no problems. Omaha Nebraska

Are there any skip functions on this thing? It doesn't make sense if you are at the end of a 30-minute buffer to have to rewind all the way to the beginning, no matter what rewind mode you are using. I understand there is no skip forward but how about a "skip to start" or something? I understand that "Live" is essentially a "skip forward to end" so that's not a problem.

I'm sure I must be missing something, because that would seem to be a major omission.

Damon

"Why would they release it"

I'll tell you why. A majority of the DVR users ARE NOT HD subscribers I am told, which btw surprises me. And these customers are doing pretty well with the unit. That is the first reason. Numero two reason is that there is intense competition between dish/Tivo/cable right now and the cable subscribers need something tangible to hold on to instead of being coaxed (no pun intended) to switch services in order to have a dvr. From a business standpoint I can understand it and am okay with it. I have seen this product come along way in a short time already. It's always hard to be patient with something cool and new that we've been looking forward to. I compare it to having a brand new christmas present and mom and dad forgot to buy batteries for it-that kind of feeling.

Navigating Video, I believe that you can jump in 15 min increments by pressing FF.REW buttons and then right or left arrows while watching the status bar (I'm doing this from memory, but it's in the manual). It has no 30sec skip, but FF a few times goes pretty fast. Also STOP and "Play from beginning" to re-start will work.

ajwees41:

The tiling problem occurs only on HD channels, so if you don't have HD service, you will never see the problem.

Originally posted by dresf
"Why would they release it"
Points well made, dresf. However, Microsoft learned their lesson not to release products before they were ready when Windows was originally released before it worked. Then they got into trouble by ANNOUNCING that they would release a product and they wouldn't. Now they just don't say anything. The product is ready when it's ready.

I agree it's a balance between getting something out and getting all the bugs worked out, but I think most would agree that if you can't even press the Pause key without ruining a recording, the product isn't ready for prime time. And now it seems that Cox/Motorola is lowering the resolution or increasing the compression to try to make things work. Maybe the Microsoft approach would be better.

Hey VideoooooGuy, it would be good to hear from you.

Does anybody have any 1st person experience with using the JVC D-VHS recorder with the 6412? I am interested in whether it will record direct to tape from the box (not dvr material) and whether you can dump recorded items off the hard drive to tape. Direct knowledge please!

Originally posted by dresf
I compare it to having a brand new christmas present and mom and dad forgot to buy batteries for it...
...and the correct batteries are not available yet.

Well, I just finished reading 72 pages of complaints about the DirectTV Tivo-HD box and its problems on another thread, so I don't feel so bad about paying $4.95/mo to rent this box, warts though there may be. How would you feel about paying $1,000 bucks for a Tivo-HD, then a couple hundred more bucks for DirectTV service, dealing with installation of satellite dish, antenna, various cables, blah blah blah and THEN find out that maybe your $1,000 investment doesn't work as well as you expected.

For $4.95/mo, I am happy with even being able to just record HD with the box turned off and no ability to simultaeneously watch/record/ff/pause etc. I'm sure the problems will get worked out eventually. BTW, I have not had ANY problems recording simultaneous HD programs as long as the box is turned off and I am not trying to do anything else at the same time.

And, not being the afficiando of PQ as some people here (not that there's anything wrong with that), I have not been unsatisfied with either the SD or HD PQ of this box. DISC-HD and the INHD channels to me look as great as they always have. HD sports look mediocre to good, as they always have. And the scripted shows seem to depend on the network, as they always have. I agree that if in fact Cox's fix for the tiling was to reduce PQ, that would ultimately be unsatisfactory. But in the meantime, as long as I know that Cox is working on the problems I am satisfied.

On a related subject, I see from the Tivo threads that their HD box also buffers even when the box is off, so this is not solely a Motorola design decision.

Damon

Right now I'd settle for tileing. Since I'm the only one here who can't seem to get any scheduled recordings, Box ON or OFF, maybe I should pursue a replacement? Maybe mine is actually broken.

Originally posted by dresf
"Why would they release it"


I have to agree with Such a deal on this one. Cox and the other cable providers have only one advantage going for them, Price. The SAT providers, particularly Zoom and Direct TV are more expensive, but they are beginning to offer significantly more channels without loss of HDPQ ( Zoom is the leader here) and DVRs that work. Direct TV has chosen TiVo and Zoom is going with the Moxi solution which appears to have some issues, but the basic functionality is there and they are waiting to release it. Cox I believe has made a fatal error in judgment by going with the 6400 platform. I do not doubt VideoooGuys' testimonial that has saw the unit work in his office. Lots of Beta electronics work in a closed circuit configuration. It is when the units are installed in the field is where it counts. Cox has very little time left to convince its present customers that they can deliver a competitive HD solution. I said that I would not speculate any more but..........

niesman::D

Since there were questions (some raised by me!) about the firewire recording off a hard drive onto a 5c deck, I ran my own tests. And as expected, anything stored on the hard drive could still be played and recorded onto my 40k. Further, despite some reports from people here, the recording was not deleted off my 6412 afterwards. I did have issues with the JVC deck not displaying the playing channel if I watched a tape first. Easy solution was just to change the channel and it picked it back up again.

madpoet, I believe that 5C is turned off on 9.11. Things may change once 5C is turned on.

It's certainly NOT turned off. I checked all my channels, and the networks are flagged zero but Discovery, ESPN, InHD, Showtime, and HBO are all flagged 1. And I cannot capture them to my PC, only to a 5c compatible device.

Originally posted by Ed Rempalski
Right now I'd settle for tileing. Since I'm the only one here who can't seem to get any scheduled recordings, Box ON or OFF, maybe I should pursue a replacement? Maybe mine is actually broken.

Mine isn't as bad as yours, but I am having a tech out to replace my box tomorrow.

The problems I have been having are my scheduled recordings and saved programs disappear randomly. Sometimes I will turn on my TV and hit the "list" button and everything will be gone, even though there were about 10 series recordings plus 4-7 recorded shows when I turned it off the night before. Another problem I have is on shows that have recorded fine (even SD programs), but are impossible to play back without the program freezing and going to a blank screen. If I "swap" from one tuner to the other, the recorded program starts playing again for about 15 seconds and then freezes again. :(

Of course, none of this happened before the software upgrade. :confused:

From my Replay history, I'd say you've got a bad/flakey drive and a replacement is in order. I'm going to call for a replacement, couldn't hurt.

I have an hdtv and the tiling/whole screen grid problems are showing up on every channel even the new guide is fuzzy like the old 6408 motorola box. I keep getting a blue screen that says hdtv is not available and to use the component input, along with the subscription needed screen? Anybody else get this blue screen?

Cox will not tech support any dvi issue here in omaha as well but when using the dvi it displays a slightly better and sharper picture. right now the macroblocking is severe on all channels with the hdtv. Sorry but my discovery channels 100-105 are the worst of all of them. Maybe the problem is related only to hdtv sets using the 6412, but I cant figure out why there is tiling on the analog channels now that was not there with the 6408 box? I tried to record the tiling issue for cox to see with the pvr and what is strange is that when played back the tiling is not on the playback recording but was there plain as day during the show when I was recording it?

Over the last couple of day I have noticed that the buffer is one hour on EACH tuner. After the last firmware upgrade when Cox added the second tuner I thought it had changed to half hour buffer. Anyone know what's going on?

Also, since I noticed the longer buffer the subscription bug has reappeared. That had almost completely disappeared for me up until this weekend. The subscription bug normally appears for me on 702 (CBS) and 704 (NBC).

Originally posted by moyekj
The buffer for each tuner only holds up to 30 minutes each. If you hit record on a show then the entire contents of that show that is in the buffer of that tuner (up to 30 mins earlier max) will also be automatically stored for future viewing along with the rest of the recording from that point. This was one of the enhancements of the 9.11 firmware.
I think you'll find that it's an hour for each tuner - at least on mine. I really like this feature and I'm constantly aware of which tuner I'm on when channel surfing. By using both buffers, you can really watch two shows (i.e. football games) by flipping back and forth, especially if there's lots of commercials. I guess those of you who have/had TIVO might be used to this, but I find it to be a great feature.

Unfortunately, there's this C.R.A.P. all over the screen, but you already know that story...

VideoooooGuy, just wanted to let you know it's not all bad news - the infamous "Guide Hole" bug hasn't affected me at all since early last week and I haven't heard complaints about it here anymore. My guess is anyone still with the problem just needs to reboot their unit and shouldn't get the problem anymore. Also, I may be lucky, but no subscription messages or 0-minute recordings either for over a week. Of course the HD picture quality in Orange County is still a lot worse than before the headend change (a lot of checkerboard macro blocking for fast motion) on all HD channels including INHD1/2 which used to be stunning, and the tiling bug is still there occasionally too, but hopefully the November update will take care of those problems.

I'd agree, the guide hole bug is gone. Unfortunately I'm getting zero length recordings more than ever, and the quality has definately gone down hill :(

My pause time WAS an hour, then after the upgrade it went to 1/2 hour, now I think it's back to an hour again! Not quite sure what happened there but I believe since it's back to an hour I'm happy now. I also haven't seen the guide hole problem, but I've been having trouble with shows starting/ending recording 1/2 way through instead of on time. I'm not sure why that would happen, it's a new one for me, and it actually didn't happen on my shows, my wife was whining about it, she wants the ReplayTV back because it had so fewer bugs than this! I'm almost in agreement with her, I really hope Cox gets these problems worked out or my wife is gonna go on strike! I can live with minor tiling and even temporary degredation in the HDTV PQ, but if the shows don't record consistently what's the point of the PVR altogether!
Tom

Well what do ya know?! I'm happy to report that COX KS has implemented dual tuner software as of today and for the 10 minutes I got to play with it this morning, this baby is working as promised and, as far as I can tell, with absolutely zero drop in PQ. I gave it a good workout....recorded INHD1 and 2 for about 5 minutes, changed channels back and forth, played with the 8 sec rewind, fast forward, AND replayed a high def recording....not a single tile to be told!! So have faith people, because this box and COX are capable of delivering, and I'm sure COX KS will be sharing with the rest of its markets on how to implement the software right.

James

Yeah, we had a day when it worked perfectly too. Keep us posted!

sucha deal - LOL!

Good to hear you are enabled Quick! I have been back up for a week now without one glitch.

I don't think the subscription bug is gone yet. I just had one happen last night on CBS HD (and a zero-length recording to go along with it).

And HBO HD is a completely unwatchable, pixellated mess.

It appears to me the subscription/0-length recordings/HD picture quality problems affect some areas much more than others, Orange County being among the worst, suggesting the local headend equipment probably has a LOT to do with these problems.

I've got Cox comming out tonight.

Originally posted by Ed Rempalski
I've got Cox comming out tonight.

Heh BOY could that be read different ways...
Tom

:)

Update - Cox replaced my box and I que'd up several shows on CBS (702), so far it's recorded a few OK and the most recent one at zero-length. When I checked the unit after it failed to record, that tuner's buffer STARTED at the time of the recording. I'm betting that it hit the subscription bug, aborted the recording. The buffer's start time indicates that the 6412 tuned to that station to record that show.

I surfed my 10 HD channels for an hour last night and my picture quality is very good. I was looking for the MPEG artifacting in fast motion, it was fine.

Tiling, still an issue. If I went back into the 1 hour buffer for either tuner, tiling/streaks randomly occured every few seconds. Not pretty.

The tech said that he'd heard that on a list of 10 problems ID'd, that something like 5-6 remained and that another update was due out next month hopefully to clear those.

I asked about signal strength on the service screen. He said that they can indicate "very good" but that he's only seen it once, and then only for brief seconds (it toggled between good and very good).

Problem status update. VideoooooGuy, wish you could give us any status updates on any of these:

1. HD Video tiling bug
Still get occurences of this, most recently last night.

2. Guide Hole bug.
FIXED. Thank you Cox/Motorola.

3. Subscription bug.
Still have problems with this on occasion

4. 0-minute recordings.
Still get some of these (most recently last night). In all cases they appear to be caused by subscription bug above since after a 0-minute recording when I tune to the channel that was supposed to record I see the subscription message for several seconds before the channel actually gets tuned properly.

5. HD picture quality problems.
HD picture quality is still sub-par when compared to before a couple of weeks ago.

Sorry for the delay ... you are all overdue for an update.

The interim fix for the HD tiling bug is still enabled, which has greatly reduced occurences of this issue. Yes, you will still see this at certain times of the day depending on the bandwidth of the HD signal we're receiving from the video content provider. Lab testing indicates this bug is fixed in the new release of Motorola firmware (details below).

Nice to hear the Guide Hole bug fix worked correctly.

The "subscription bug" has been difficult to track down, but is at the top of the list of things we're working on with Pioneer. Sorry, nothing to report on this yet. I'd love to get more specifics on the circumstances or any other details that might be valuable in tracking this down.

The "zero minute recordings" bug can be caused by the "subscription bug" just mentioned.

I'm working to track down the HD picture quality issue. It may be that the HD tiling "interim fix" inadvertently caused this, but I don't know yet. Cox Corporate engineers are working to find out what's going on.

In summary ... there is a new version of software (Motorola OS update and Pioneer Guide update) that we're hoping to install in early November. Here's a partial list of the problems fixed:
* HD tiling bug
* Negative length recording when recording a program already in progress
* Incorrect video positioning when going from FF to Play
* Playing a zero-length recording can freeze the STB

There will also be some new features I'll talk about as we get a bit closer.

VideooooGuy:

I'm sure I speak for everyone here when I tell you how much I appreciate your efforts and your willingness to contribute to this forum. Thank you!!

Damon

Good to hear some fixes are coming VG. I'll be honest, missing recordings is about to drive my wife over the edge ;).

VideooooGuy,

Thanks for update.

Please discuss issue of signal on component outputs when STB is turned off (via remote) with Motorola. This signal is causing automatic switching equipment to switch to the STB even after it is turned off.

Let us know. Also, occasionally - when powered down, 4:3 area goes blank but both right and left sides of 16:9 screen continue to display image (not sure why, but likely related to output no being turned off).

Thanks.

Ed

fyi...

I am also having the left and right side display issue when the box is turned off ...

Ditto VG. Sounds encouraging.

Don't forget my pet-peeve: Channel Skip & Hide function in Passport. Also, others have mentioned 30 second skip.

Hey VideooooGuy, you're not really moyekj, are you????? [Insert Twilight Zone Theme here]

Had an interesting recording problem on my 6208 last night:

Lost had just started, I hit the record button, the screen said recording started, a couple of seconds later it said recording had stopped. I hit the record button again and it recorded properly. Afterwards, when I looked at the DVR menu it showed a recording for "Wheel of Fortune" (the show just before Lost) and a recording for "Lost". I was like the recorder thought that WOF was on even though Lost had already started.

Maybe a clue to 6412 problems, maybe not.

Originally posted by hd_addicted
Had an interesting recording problem on my 6208 last night:
Maybe a clue to 6412 problems, maybe not.

Yes, connect the dots: this happens to me also, and you're right, it may be definitely related to the 0/1 minute recordings. Are you listening VideooooGuy/moyekj? The guide and the clock might be off just a few seconds and could cause a premature ending to a recording. Nice call, addict!

Thanks VideooooGuy for the update.

I'm happy to hear that the subscription bug is high on the list, BUT, I'm really sad that they don't have a fix in the works.

This is a solid failure mode for me. In playing with my now 2nd 6412, it seems related in some way to the dual tuners. I've been trying to somehow create a workaround where the box keeps tuned to the channel (in my case 702) so that when a record event occurs, that it won't re-tune to that channel, hit the no subscription bug, and die. But everything I've tried hasn't worked.

:(

In my case the subscription bug is causing the 0-minute recordings in every case I have checked. The easy way to check is following a failed recording try tuning to the channel it was supposed to record - for me I always see the subscription popup for a few seconds before it finally tunes properly. So as a possible fix to the problem in the upcoming November firmware perhaps something like this may work:

The problem right now seems to be that for a scheduled recording when it tunes to the channel the subscription bug appears and therefore no video signal is detected and recording fails.
So, perhaps for scheduled recordings if there is a built in pause of a few seconds after the channel is tuned to and before the recording actually begins that may be sufficient time for the video signal to make it through and for the recording to proceed normally.

Another possible more longshot workaround is after tuning if no video signal is detected try and tune to a pre-determined channel first (say channel 2) and then back to the desired channel - if after that sequence there still is no video signal then assume that this truly is a non-subscribed channel and give up on the recording. i.e. this basically builds in the workaround to the subscription bug problem into the tuning process. Of course this sounds easy to describe in English and probably much harder to implement in software which is why I think it's a longshot.

VideooooGuy, I don't know what the Cox philosophy is in terms of beta testing with actual customers. But there are a pool of users monitoring this thread who I'm sure would be willing to sign up for beta testing some of the solutions you are implementing (myself included). The parent companies of ReplayTV did/do this quite often and I have participated in a couple of them. It requires all beta testers to sign up for the program and sign up for Non Disclosure Agreement (NDA) which prevents them from disclosing details of the program to anyone, or even that they are even involved in any beta testing at all. This has been very effective way of getting bugs properly identified and fixed and tried out in the field before official release.

Also, VideooooGuy you may not be aware of the Private Messaging capability in this forum - but it is very useful to communicate one on one with individual forum members for subjects you don't want to share with forum members in general, while still remaining anonymous. You can access P.M. messaging area as follows from the pulldown menu at the top of the page: Members Area -> Private Messages

BTW - I'm in no way associated with Cox or VideooooGuy - and I'm in California and VideooooGuy presumably in Atlanta.

Thanks again from one of the biggest complainers.:D

The better the Job,

The less you will read from me.


niesman

Originally posted by moyekj
VideooooGuy, I don't know what the Cox philosophy is in terms of beta testing with actual customers. But there are a pool of users monitoring this thread who I'm sure would be willing to sign up for beta testing some of the solutions you are implementing (myself included). The parent companies of ReplayTV did/do this quite often and I have participated in a couple of them. It requires all beta testers to sign up for the program and sign up for Non Disclosure Agreement (NDA) which prevents them from disclosing details of the program to anyone, or even that they are even involved in any beta testing at all. This has been very effective way of getting bugs properly identified and fixed and tried out in the field before official release.


Great idea moyekj. Being in the software field, I have participated in many betas and would be very happy to work with Cox on this one. VideooooGuy, count me in if you need me.

VideooooGuy, Consider this for the subscription bug;

Allow/force the box to record any channel regardless of what it sees. If the channel is normally OK, it would show the "no subscription" banner for a few seconds and then continue with the show.

If the channel is not subscribed to, the box should record that banner screen for the duration of the time slot.

It simply should behave like a VCR and not try to be checking constantly for subscription status before recording or scheduling. If someone records a non subscribed channel and gets an hour of junk, who cares, delete the show and program the right channel next time.

This method should be a quick fix.

Do something!

Also from what I've seen today (I tuned to 702, then went to the guide and set 4 shows to record all day). It hasn't recorded anything, I think that once it fails on the first show that it may tag that channel as non-recordable, killing all future attempts.

I'm up for beta as well!!

Ed, there are still cases where you have to change off the channel and back to get the No Subscription to go away.

I'm seeing funny things with the dual tuners and using the "swap" button.

I tuned to CNN (14) then swapped channels and tuned to CBS (702). I then pressed swap a few times to verify that these two channels were buffering.

Then while watching CNN, I opened the guide, went to 702 and selected a show to record on 702. I turn the box off and leave it. The record lite was on so I checked what it was doing. It was recording ch14! and pressing "swap" brought me to ch3. I'm positive on what I set up so I'm at a loss to explain what happened.

Next I went to CBS 702 and manually started recording that channel to "bind" that tuner to a task. I then tuned to 721 to to put the 2nd tuner somewhere. I then went to the guide and selected all of the CBS lineup for tonight.

So far it's recording everything.

I'd swear that one of the two tuners is more touchy, and that pressing swap causes some odd behavoir.

I've never had to switch off-channel to clear the No Subscription, it always clears in a few seconds. To stop tiling, I do have to change Off-Channel to dump the buffer.

This thread really needs to become the official Cox/Pioneer 6412 thread. Many of these issues are specific to Cox/Pioneer (and the GIOS version they chose to deploy).

I'm having to hold my tongue here but I know or have very educated guesses on what the underlying issues are that are causing some of these problems -- after all, our software was certified by Moto in June and our software has incorporated workarounds and protections against many of the bumps on this road before that time and in a subsequent update.

As for the Microsoft approach someone mentioned earlier . . .

Best of luck to those of you working through this issue from any angle. Once you work the kinks out, dual tuner HD DVR integrated into a cable box kicks butt. . . . I've been using it for a while now internally and can't wait to have it at home.

I don't know who you are, and it's fine that you hold your tongue in public, but why don't you consider dropping a PM to VideooooGuy if you have some insight that may reduce our suffering!

I agree that IF/WHEN this box is working, it'll be a serious kick butt product.

Do share!

Considering it's competition to Pioneer (Microsoft), I doubt any insights will be given to help them/us along. Just hope Mr. Shan is not a troll. Not meaning to be rude in any way, but if we expected any help it would already have been provided.

Seriously... "I know a secret, and you guys are all screwed." Gee, thanks.

I am for keeping this thread open and free without any end arounds. We all benefit from the information here or not. As far as anyone with a secret, grow-up.

I think Shan just wanted to make it clear that these problems are specific to the COX/Pioneer software implementation for the 6412, and that 6412s with other software do not exhibit these problems.

The Motorola 6412 w/ MS DVR software being deployed within the next month in Seattle, WA (and San Francisco, CA?) evidently has none of the issues noted in this thread. This thread title probably should be identified with a COX label, otherwise it will get confusing with posts from COX customers with these issues versus Comcast customers with no issues (or differing issues).

It is good to know that COX/Pioneer is the one responsible for these issues. The fact that other platforms don't exhibit these problems means they can be addressed / fixed. And if these issues can't be resolved in a timely fashion by Pioneer, perhaps COX will consider alternative software platforms for Motorola hardware which don't exhibit these issues. Cheaper is not always best.

Originally posted by bfdtv
And if these issues can't be resolved in a timely fashion by Pioneer, perhaps COX will consider alternative software platforms for Motorola hardware which don't exhibit these issues.

Or just dump the entire Motorola platform and go with Moxi ;)

Originally posted by gb61
Or just dump the entire Motorola platform and go with Moxi ;) That would be a trick because the Moxi platform runs on the Motorola DVR.

tall...you beat me to it

Perhaps I should have said "dump the Motorola DCT6412 platform" in favor of the BMC9012 used by Moxi. Better?

I agree that this really should be a Cox/Pioneer specific thread for the 6412.

Once the MSFT guide is deployed it should have its own thread, same for iGuide.

Some of the problems will be guide-specific, some will be MSO specific (unrelated to the guide).

I am pretty certain there are a few people either watching or participating in these threads that know a lot more then they can discuss. Breaking out into guide-specific threads will help utilize the forums as a source of issue reports.

I am also more intersted with 6412 with Microsoft TV Foundation Edition 1.7 interface. That looks much more interesting.

Hong.

Originally posted by dbrouda
I agree that this really should be a Cox/Pioneer specific thread for the 6412.

Once the MSFT guide is deployed it should have its own thread, same for iGuide.

Some of the problems will be guide-specific, some will be MSO specific (unrelated to the guide).

I am pretty certain there are a few people either watching or participating in these threads that know a lot more then they can discuss. Breaking out into guide-specific threads will help utilize the forums as a source of issue reports.

Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

I have been watching this thread for some time now. I have seen it go from 6412 specific to COX/6412 intensive.

I too thought that this should be renamed the Cox/Pioneer thread. But, the more I thought about it the more I thought that was a bad idea. Keeping everything 6412 related here gives us all a better feel of what problems and successes are out there.

Just my 2 cents.

I would recommend the following two site that deal with th iGuide and Comcast specific guides:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=449214

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=423108

I too would love to see the Microsoft Guide on my 6208/6412 but Comcast is only testing it in Seattle.

Shan knows a lot about the 6412 and all it can do. Unfortunately working for Microsoft he is not at liberty to divulge much. Comcast should be embarrassed with their current guide. iGuide is a bridge to a more Tivo "like" solution. The Microsoft guide looks extremely Tivo like and would love to have it.

Simply, Comcast is in bed with Gemstar/TV Guide. One reason is a legal action that Comcast did not want to fight and secondly the Microsoft guide probably costs more.

I wish Comcast had a VideooooGuy on here too. I can see that having a corporate representative really helps in the PR area. Most people were probably fed up with COX but since VideooooGuy showed up, COX image has improved greatly.

Comcast... are you listening???

Mark

In case you're wondering, no I'm not a troll. :)

If I could share my information without sharing proprietary or NDA information, I would. However, all ISVs have their own proprietary stuff AND all ISVs must abide by agreements they have with Motorola. I'm not going to represent Motorola, Cox or Pioneer here. I WILL help whenever I can share insight or information that doesn't risk my job or other aspects of the projects I'm working on.

When MSTV FE is deployed to paying customers, I'll start a FE thread and there will be MS representation there.

Hi, I am getting the feeling that nothing is going to be done to correct my problems with the cox/motorla 6412 or even 6208. I figure that in the 15 years I have been a cox subscriber, I have paid them roughly between 6,000. and 8,000. dollars in subscriptions. I recently heard these excuses for the poor picture quality 1. I live at the end of a cable run so I will never have as good a service because I am far away from the plants fiber node. 2. There is interference from other mysterious sources? 3. Several fortune 500 companies are within a mile of me and they are using up the bandwidth, thus making my signal weaker? 4. I sit too close to my television or it is my televisions fault! 5. When talking to the supervisor who visited my house I hear the same complaint that I give him right back to me! that his service and his pvr has the same problems like the clear checkerboard across the entire picture, bad picture for hdtv, guide and subcription problems. I cant get any refund for any service and now I have a worse picture quality problem than i had when all of this started a few months ago!

I wonder if the blue screen that I get saying hd service unavailable at this time is related to the pioneer or microsoft versions of software?

I also am getting no recordings when they are scheduled to have been completed. when fast forwarding the ones that do work I stop the fast forward because I see the show is back on only to find out the commercials come back on when play starts up again. Something is still not right!

Hi, I am getting the feeling that nothing is going to be done to correct my problems with the cox/motorla 6412 or even 6208.
I wouldn't worry. I think the problems with the COX/Pioneer software will almost certainly be fixed, it's just a matter of time (30 days? 60 days? 3 months?). In the interim, you may want to add the Motorola 6200.

name-change suggestion done.

Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

Well, when Comcast deploys the 6412 (in the year 2042) I'll start a Comcast/iGuide/FE 6412 Review.

Maybe not 2042. Hopefully in the next 4 months. Hopefully.

Originally posted by markjrenna
Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

Well, when Comcast deploys the 6412 (in the year 2042) I'll start a Comcast/iGuide/FE 6412 Review.

Maybe not 2042. Hopefully in the next 4 months. Hopefully.

Mark,
You're all over the place with your positive outlook.

I have related that 6412's, as stated in other threads where we have both posted I believe, are arriving now in Comcast warehouses in markets where they have previously rolled out the 6208. Comcast is awaiting final tweaks for the IGuide software for release.

They'll rollout no later than 12/1 and I expect we'll see sightings in some markets as early as 11/15.

Regards,
GoIrish

Originally posted by GoIrish
Mark,
You're all over the place with your positive outlook.

I have related that 6412's, as stated in other threads where we have both posted I believe, are arriving now in Comcast warehouses in markets where they have previously rolled out the 6208. Comcast is awaiting final tweaks for the IGuide software for release.

They'll rollout no later than 12/1 and I expect we'll see sightings in some markets as early as 11/15.

Regards,
GoIrish

Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

Do I sense some sarcasm? How can you not be positive when you include a cable company in the same sentence. :)

Thanks for following me around. BTW, I know what is going on in my area. I just can't speak for the rest of Comcast.

For those of you who are eagerly and patiently awaiting a fully functioning 6412 with dual tuner, I am still pleased to report that mine is working great in Wichita, Kansas. I am successfully recording two HD programs w/o problems, and is hitting the scheduled programs from the guide as well. My PQ is outstanding as well. I have not seen a subscription error in 2 weeks and the tiling/macroblocking is all but gone except in rare cirucumstances which probably has nothing to do with the box or the cable provider. There is a light at the end of the tunnel and no, it is not an oncomming train despite what we were hinted at by the good folks who are the Kings of Bugs and overpromised hyperbole on the left coast.

Can you make screen captures of your VQ problems with a digital camera and post the result? People in this forum are happy to assist when given something a bit more concrete to work with.

There is a bug in the Pioneer/Motorola software which causes scheduled recordings to fail. The cause of this has not yet been identified, but the engineers are working hard to track it down.

There's also a known problem with Fast-forwarding which will be fixed in new software coming out next month. Others in this thread have mentioned workarounds such as hitting "pause pause" to stop the FF.

Originally posted by scatcat
Hi, I am getting the feeling that nothing is going to be done to correct ... clear checkerboard across the entire picture, bad picture for hdtv, guide and subcription problems. I cant get any refund for any service and now I have a worse picture quality problem than i had when all of this started a few months ago!

I wonder if the blue screen that I get saying hd service unavailable at this time is related to the pioneer or microsoft versions of software?

I also am getting no recordings when they are scheduled to have been completed. when fast forwarding the ones that do work I stop the fast forward because I see the show is back on only to find out the commercials come back on when play starts up again. Something is still not right!

VideooooGuy

The Guide hole bug reappeared in Omaha NE. The guide shows info until Friday then no data not even loading additional data.

It seems to be fixed on Monday the 18th it shows info for the next 6 days.

Andrew Wees

VideooooGuy. Here in Mission Viejo, Orange County, CA looks like HD picture quality is back to what it used to be - i.e. the excessive checkerboard macro blocking on fast motion has gone in programs I have watched. In Orange County thread only HBO HD is being complained about now. Of course the side effect is that tiling comes back with a vengeance. I can live with the tiling problem until the November update which is supposed to fix that problem. For anyone wondering what the HD tiling bug really looks like, here's some samples from FOX HD (711) from today's NFL Seattle/New England game. The tiling started as soon as I played back a recording that was still being recorded. The point in time I started playback to end of the recording had intense tiling accompanied by frequent audio dropouts as show in the samples below.

The Guide Hole bug has not re-appeared for me at all for over 10 days.

http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/CIMG0224.JPG

http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/CIMG0225.JPG

Has anyone else in Orange County (I'm in Mission Viejo) noticed faint "hum bars" on the COX HD stations? For anyone who does not know what hum bars look like - they are sometimes faint bars that travel from the bottom of the screen to the top. Usually associated with ground loop problems. I never had this problem before using the Cox/6412 box.

Anyone else?

I tried to point this out to the nice Cox repair person by changing from one channel to another to cause the screen to go black momentarily. It is easiest to see the moving bars on a dark background. After he was able to see the bars on the black background, he looked at me and asked "how often to you watch a totally black screen"? I just thanked him form coming out and asked him to please pass my question on to other repair personnel to see if anyone had a solution. He claimed a simple filter was not possible because the signal requires two way communication.

Ed

VideooooGuy,

Any information about the component connection always outputting a signal that is causing automatic switches to switch to it - even when the box is off?

Any suggestions on a potential filter or other fix for Hum Bars? Already tried removing grounds from all equipment - no change. Suspect the "hum bar" signal is on the cable.... What do you recommend?

Thanks.

Ed

Originally posted by edsuski
Has anyone else in Orange County (I'm in Mission Viejo) noticed faint "hum bars" on the COX HD stations? For anyone who does not know what hum bars look like - they are sometimes faint bars that travel from the bottom of the screen to the top.
Ed Not sure if it's the same thing, but I occasionally get a whole bunch of white lines on the very top of the video - sometimes barely visible like it's hidden at the top, sometimes coming down into the picture a little. I'm using DVI connection so I know it's not interference (all digital connection from box to TV). I confirmed these lines are part of the recording (in mpeg2 transport stream) if I pull a clip off the box using the firewire output. Also, if I record downconverted HD off the S-video output to my ReplayTV I often get the lines clearly visible on the top of the letterboxed video.

I also saw some tiling on Showtime tonight (e.g. the cake cutting scene in Dead Like Me). So PQ may not be back to normal, as I never used to see tiling on this show before the 6412.

HBO HD is just horrible - just watch the beginning of Bad Boys II. Constant macro-blocking. If that movie can be free of artifacts, then that would be proof that HDPQ is back.

Ed - I also see the ground loop problem you mention. I did not do anything about it yet.

Originally posted by markjrenna
Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

Do I sense some sarcasm? How can you not be positive when you include a cable company in the same sentence. :)

Thanks for following me around. BTW, I know what is going on in my area. I just can't speak for the rest of Comcast.

Mark,
Was absolutely facetious...just didn't use a smiley :).

Regards,
GoIrish

moyekj,

If the white lines you are seeing are at the very top of the screen and not rolling from the bottom of the screen to the top, on non-HD (and usually on the lower, traditionally analog, channels), then you simply need to use the blanking control on your PJ to blank the first few video lines.

This does not sound like the "hum bars" I am talking about. Try the blanking or PM me and I will provide my phone number so we can discuss.

RICH4AV,

Thanks for the reply. Anyone else see "Hum Bars" in Orange County? (i.e. fairly wide bands of a slightly different contrast than the background rolling from the bottom of the screen to the top).

Ed

Originally posted by edsuski
moyekj,

If the white lines you are seeing are at the very top of the screen and not rolling from the bottom of the screen to the top, on non-HD (and usually on the lower, traditionally analog, channels), then you simply need to use the blanking control on your PJ to blank the first few video lines. Thanks Ed. I scoured through the various settings for the TV and the manual, but nothing at all related to "blanking control" - this is my first HDTV (Philips 30" (non-projection) LCD) purchase and turns out to be missing some basic features such as this one. Also, it accepts 1080i & 480i, but not 720p or 480p inputs. The other big problem is it only has one component input - luckily it has DVI input so I can save the component input for the DVD player. If I had done better homework I would not have ended up with this TV. It will make a good bedroom TV in a year or so when I buy a "real" HDTV for living room.

OK another issue I haven't yet seen mentioned. If I have 2 scheduled recordings back to back and I'm watching one while the other is still recording, the playing from the first just continues to the next show when watching it. The problem is, if you hit stop and delete it deletes the wrong show, because you've actually started watching the next recording. If it's currently recording and you hit stop it stops recording and screws everything up. When watching a recorded show it should ALWAYS STOP at the end of the recording, not just bleed over into the next show. This only appears to happen if the recorded show precedes a scheduled recording in progress, from what I've seen anyway...
Tom

The recent post of pictures showing the tiling are classic but tiling has never been that severe in Omaha. Most of my digital chanels are unwatchable here and the analog are somewhat better than the digital. I would rate the hdtv reception as good but not near what it was with the 6208 box. Terrible macroblocking all over and on every channel including analog.

Music channels are really bad and almost unreadable because they are so jagged but sound ok, also the music channels take up to the count of 12 between channel changes before they come on!

Anyone notice that the guide is less jagged than the 6208 but when using the 6412 and pressing menu and then pressing the yellow options triangle a really jagged menu screen comes back up.

scatcat, as suggested by VideooooGuy above, pictures are worth 1,000 words when it comes to picture quality problems. If you have a digital camera then it is very easy to do. If you don't have a web site to post the images at I can help with that if needed (p.m. me if you need help).

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by skfields01
Has anyone noticed that Closed Caption does not seem to work properly on some stations with the new DVR. The local stuff (ABC, CBS, NBC) work fine, but the pay stuff (HBO, Starz, Cinemax, Showtime) seem to be screwed up. It looks like it is adding too many letters in the sentences (Iiiiiittttt Lllllooookksss LLliiiikkkkeeee Ttttthhhiiissss). Anyone else have this problem?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will get some photos up and thanks in advance for the help, On top of all of this there is now this problem identified by skfields01 on the orange county cox thread and I just noticed it here in Omaha,

I have noticed three things now with the closed captioning in Omaha.

1. I estimate closed captioning is only working on about 10 percent of all of the channels.

2. There is the stretch/letter/delay word syndrome on some channels.

3. The closed caption box is now very large and runs from top to bottom of the tv leaving a little bit of picture on the left and a big chunk of picture on the right. this is kind of like when the tv is on first and the 6412 box is off, I get picture on the left, a big black box in the middle and a picture bar on the right?

Some folks here have been wondering if the box outputs a signal when in standby. I suspect what's happening here is that since the moto firmware cannot currently handle a power standby transition while recording, Pioneer is just muting AV but not technically putting the box into true Moto standby (which would probably send out true zero signal).

If this is the case, there is nothing you can do aside from not having your equipment automatically switch on signal detection. If this behavior changes in future firmware , I suspect that most of the ISVs will no longer need to work around this behavior.

Originally posted by dresf
For those of you who are eagerly and patiently awaiting a fully functioning 6412 with dual tuner, I am still pleased to report that mine is working great in Wichita, Kansas. I am successfully recording two HD programs w/o problems, and is hitting the scheduled programs from the guide as well. My PQ is outstanding as well. I have not seen a subscription error in 2 weeks and the tiling/macroblocking is all but gone except in rare cirucumstances which probably has nothing to do with the box or the cable provider. There is a light at the end of the tunnel and no, it is not an oncomming train despite what we were hinted at by the good folks who are the Kings of Bugs and overpromised hyperbole on the left coast.

Well, I was thinking we were bug-free here in wichita too, but checked my recordings this morning, and lo and behold there was a 0-minute recording on SHOW HD. So it looks like we're not outta the clear yet.

Just a little sidebar...

With all the 6412 issues, I don't know that people are ready to go here, but anybody heard when/ if Cox will be offering the 6416? At least we would have more storage space for our one-minute recordings...

Let's get everything taken care of with the 6412 and then we can go to the 6416 and do it all over again...

VideooooGuy, back to the 2 remaining unsolved problems by Cox/Motorola/Pioneer for subscription bug + 0-minute recordings, was wondering if the following potential workarounds are feasible to implement as a workaround to the problem in case the problem itself cannot be tracked down and fixed.

The problem I run into right now seems to be that for a scheduled recording when it tunes to the channel the subscription bug appears and therefore no video signal is detected and recording fails. This is confirmed after a failed recording if I tune to the channel that was supposed to record I get the subscription bug every time.

Workaround #1
For scheduled recordings, if there is a built in pause of a few seconds after the channel is tuned to and before the recording actually begins that may be sufficient time for the video signal to make it through and for the recording to proceed normally.

Workaround #2
After tuning, if no video signal is detected try and tune to a pre-determined channel first (say channel 2) and then back to the desired channel - if after that sequence there still is no video signal then assume that this truly is a non-subscribed channel and give up on the recording. i.e. this basically builds in the workaround to the subscription bug problem into the tuning process. Of course this sounds easy to describe in English and probably much harder to implement in software.

Also, as I mentioned before, myself and others in this forum are very willing to be involved in any kind of beta release Cox may want to try out in the field.

Don't forget OPTION 3 - RECORD THE CHANNEL, regardless of the message received, hopefully the banner will clear, if not, record the banner!

I agree, just record the channel regardless, why make it jump through all those hoops, turn off the feature that makes it "smart" and not record when there is a subscription screen, just let it record! The question though is, when the subscription bug presents itself, will that banner stay up the whole time or do you HAVE to change channels to fix it? If that's the case, odds are you WOULD just get an hour or whatever recording of the banner because it doesn't go away. This would only be a viable solution if the banner consistently does disappear at some point after being tuned to (which I haven't seen, but I also haven't waited that long I just switch channels back and forth).

Tom

Seriously... 3 more recordings missed over the last 2 days. Why is this so hard to fix? THere's tons of PVRs out there doing this with no problem, inmany cases doing exactly as suggested above.

Originally posted by madpoet
Seriously... 3 more recordings missed over the last 2 days. Why is this so hard to fix? THere's tons of PVRs out there doing this with no problem, inmany cases doing exactly as suggested above.

I hate to be the prognosticator of bad things to come but, the subscription bug may be the root evil of all things. This is not a Moto issue, but a pioneer OS issue. That is why it is so hard to track down. VideoooGuy has already said that the november fix will NOT include the subcription bug. I get this bug every time a power on and have left the active tuner on a HD channel, even local ABC HD displays this error.

niesman

Originally posted by niesman
...subscription bug. I get this bug every time a power on and have left the active tuner on a HD channel, even local ABC HD displays this error.

niesman

FWIW, I used to get this bug but do not anymore. I also however never turn my cable box off. Not sure why you would turn it off / put it in standby since it doesn't seem to do anything other than blank some of the outputs. Anyway, I know I haven't seen the problem since the "head-end fix" but I think it went away permanetly before that. About two weeks after the dual tuner upgrade I called Cox cto complain about the subscription bug and they responded by sending a hard reset to my DVR, it took two tries but I recall it fixing the immediate problem and know. I vaugely recall having a couple momentary (where it went away after 2-3 seconds of being tuned to the channel) but I could be wrong I the time. Regardless I know for sure I havn't seen it happen since the head-end fix.

I never turn mine off, and still get it all the time.

Last night I had the tv on but was doing other things. I saw that it went to record CSI-NY in HD. It changed to the channel and when it got there there was the subscrition error. So i'm thinking ok this will be another 0 minute recording.....but after the normal 3-5 seconds the show came on.....and.....it was still recording!! I didn't touch a thing. Does this mean this is fixed now, or they are testing something?

New to the forum.... Just got my 6412 last week. But...not running in HD, only SD. Am seeing the same blocking that you guys are mentioning in previous posts. Tried to play back a recording last night, while recording another channel made it freeze up >5 minutes. Patience gave up, unplugged the box, plugged back in, and it erased my all previously recorded shows. (bummer)

Have a tech coming out tomorrow to check out the box. (BTW...was told that if the technician doesn't find an issue, it's a $31.50 charge to the account. Anyone else heard of this?)

Originally posted by mike wizowski
New to the forum.... Just got my 6412 last week. But...not running in HD, only SD. Am seeing the same blocking that you guys are mentioning in previous posts. Tried to play back a recording last night, while recording another channel made it freeze up >5 minutes. Patience gave up, unplugged the box, plugged back in, and it erased my all previously recorded shows. (bummer)

Have a tech coming out tomorrow to check out the box. (BTW...was told that if the technician doesn't find an issue, it's a $31.50 charge to the account. Anyone else heard of this?)

If they try and charge you just call customer service and tell them if they dont remove the charge to come out and disconnect your cable and take the box about since you'll be moving the satellite...they should react quickly to keep you as a customer.

There is no way that you will end up having to pay a service call for this box. Take a deep breath and count to ten. I don't blame you but if that charge ends up on your statement it'll take just one phone call and you will have managers puckering up to your hind end pretty quickly or like you I'd have satellite installed in a NY minute.

I don't think I've seen the "subscription required" bug since we finally got the new software last week, and I used to get it all the time. I also haven't noticed any picture quality reduction, and I've only been able to force the blocking once. That said, I had my first 0 length recording tonight. :eek:

A quick question, I hope hasn't been asked yet. Has anyone tried to hook up an external hard drive to the firewire port on the box to increase recording time? I have been wondering about this for awhile, but haven't had the time to try to get a drive to check this out. A surveyor for Cox asked me a lot of questions about what I thought of the box and their digital service. One of the questions was "If you could double the recording time of the recorder for $99 how likely would be to do that?". I thought that was a very interesting question. Thanks for your help.

On the subject of disk space.

To lessen the headaches from the 6412 and its OS system.

And to avoid people hacking into the 6412 who forget they don't own it.

Cox should offer us the ability to go into the highly competitive hard drive market and get the best price for a hard drive and let us plug it into the 6412 for the extra disk space. The satellite companies are going to allow this on their boxes and have said its coming.

There are DRM issues with regard to having the ability to connect an external hard disk.

If it were supported, the file system would probably not common.

If a company were to come out with a psuedo DVHS component, but hard disk based, that would be a nice toy. The 1394 interface using the DVHS command structure.

I don't believe the file system need be common. The drivers which would be unique to 6412 and its OS system could be loaded with the next Firmware update. If you transfer to the second hard drive once recorded, the UBS speed may not matter as much.

Just a thought

You guys really need to read earlier in the thread... Videooguy answered this with all the whys.

Very interesting find in Orange County on the HD bit rate. I captured 1 hour recording of ER from NBC HD to WinXP.

The bit rate as reported by Womble was 30,808 Kbps VBR
Several weeks ago the bit rate was 38,810 Kbps CBR
Interestingly, the total size was about 8.5G, so not much lower than before.

So looks like the stream has changed from constant higher bit rate to a variable bit rate with a max 8,000 Kbps lower than the previous constant rate. This probably explains why we have noticed more artifacting on high motion scenes. I'm hoping this is a temporary change perhaps to aid with the HD tiling problem, and once the November fix rolls around that the previous bit rate is restored.

I had a really wierd thing happen last night and wondered if anyone else had the same thing. We were recording "Third Watch" at 9pm in HD on NBC while watching something else I had previously recorded. When that show ended at 9:15 we started to watch TW from the beginning. For the first 4-5 minutes the recording of TW was cut in half. The top half of the picture was black, while the bottom half was the recording of the show, with the audio OK. When I first saw it, I fast forwarded to see if the entire show was recorded that way or not. When it got to the first commercial, the recording went back to full screen and stayed that way for the rest of the show. Any thoughts? Has that happened to anyone else? I have TW set up as a series to record new episodes only, and only on the HD channel if that helps. Strange.

Originally posted by moyekj
Very interesting find in Orange County on the HD bit rate. I captured 1 hour recording of ER from NBC HD to WinXP.

The bit rate as reported by Womble was 30,808 Kbps VBR
Several weeks ago the bit rate was 38,810 Kbps CBR
Interestingly, the total size was about 8.5G, so not much lower than before.

So looks like the stream has changed from constant higher bit rate to a variable bit rate with a max 8,000 Kbps lower than the previous constant rate. This probably explains why we have noticed more artifacting on high motion scenes. I'm hoping this is a temporary change perhaps to aid with the HD tiling problem, and once the November fix rolls around that the previous bit rate is restored.

This is a characteristic of the tiling-bug workaround. You are correct that this is a temporary change.

We now have a true fix for the tiling problem and are testing it in the Atlanta lab to ensure the fix didn't break anything else. This is a change to our headend software so doesn't require any new software in the 6412. The good news is that IF this new software works well, it could be installed in our field locations before the end of the month. No promises - but everything looks good at this time.

VideooooGuy I don't where to ask this, so I am asking here. Do you know if the Motorola DCT 2500 holds a full six days of data like the 6412 does?

Andrew Wees

Originally posted by VideooooGuy
We now have a true fix for the tiling problem and are testing it in the Atlanta lab to ensure the fix didn't break anything else. This is a change to our headend software so doesn't require any new software in the 6412.

Was this fix was deployed yesterday in Orange County? Game 2 of the World Series looked fantastic and it didn't have one single picture tile during the entire game (every HD program I watch has at least some picture tiling at some point, and Game 1 had a lot of tiling). HD finally looked the way it did before the two-tuner upgrade. I just hope it stays that way!

I had some minor tiling during Desperate Housewives. And HBO still looks like crap, even during a movie like Something's Gotta Give.

Tiling problem appears to be close to being fixed here. Tonight I am able to put both tuners on HD channels, FF and RW on both so both tuners are playing from buffer, go to a recorded HD program and FF and RW there, and then stop recording, FF both tuners up to live program and no tiling at all.

Seems Cox implemented some fix. That said, PQ on HBO and Showtime is horrible. Even had macro blocking on INHD in fast motion scenes. That is not good, and frankly HBO and Showtime are not acceptable.

rdnichilo, I can confirm tiling bug is still there in Orange County. I tuned 1 tuner to 707 (ABCHD) and other to 702 (CBSHD) and selected pause on 1, swapped over to the other tuner and saw the tiling - very subdued tiles few and far between but certainly noticeable. Picture quality looked pretty good otherwise.

That said, taking the usual precautions of tuning both tuners to SD channels before a scheduled recording and leaving the box alone during an HD recording avoids the HD tiling bug almost entirely from my experience.

Also, haven't had a 0-minute recording or subscription bug message in over a week now.

Things seem to be improving here in New England as well.

However, I might have a problem with the key word search. When I have the 6412 and/or OS doing an on going search for a favorite Actor, it only seems to do the search and schedule the event with that actor for recording after I reboot the box. As days are added to the guide, it's not picking up the Actor, but it did when I rebooted the box. This is a great feature and saves a great deal of time by not having search through the whole guide.

Anyone noticing this?

Joe

Along the same lines I find that at times you have to bring up the Guide and scroll through all days in order for the unit to "read" the guide for all 6 days. Only then will the to-be-recorded list show what it will do for all 6 days. My guess is the search feature also relies on the guide being paged into memory in order to work. So, instead of rebooting try bringing up the guide and page through all days to load the data into memory and then try the search.

So I think there's a bug where sometimes even though the guide data is downloaded and stored on HDD it's not always updated in memory on the unit.

Originally posted by Joe3
Things seem to be improving here in New England as well.

However, I might have a problem with the key word search. When I have the 6412 and/or OS doing an on going search for a favorite Actor, it only seems to do the search and schedule the event with that actor for recording after I reboot the box. As days are added to the guide, it's not picking up the Actor, but it did when I rebooted the box. This is a great feature and saves a great deal of time by not having search through the whole guide.

Anyone noticing this?

Joe

Thanks for the quick reply.

I did bringing up the guide and page through all days to load the data into memory and then try the search and it didn't work, that's when I rebooted. I really hate to load the guide.

The command with the big eye glass next to it searches always for the Key word (an Actor). Once I set the box, it should do the searching without me doing anything else.

So it seems we may have a new bug.

Originally posted by moyekj
Along the same lines I find that at times you have to bring up the Guide and scroll through all days in order for the unit to "read" the guide for all 6 days. Only then will the to-be-recorded list show what it will do for all 6 days. My guess is the search feature also relies on the guide being paged into memory in order to work. So, instead of rebooting try bringing up the guide and page through all days to load the data into memory and then try the search.

So I think there's a bug where sometimes even though the guide data is downloaded and stored on HDD it's not always updated in memory on the unit.

I've had to do the same thing (scroll through all days) to get the search working properly also.

If I don't, it won't find things.

I actually hit upon the work-around by accident - I *knew* there was a show coming up (thanks to the ReplayTV) but the cable box couldn't find it. So I manually found it in the Guide by scrolling to it and then the search could find it too.

--Walburga

I tried to read this whole thread but I cannot find what I am looking for. Is there a way to connect a computer to the firewire ports extract the recordings?

Originally posted by cr0wbar
I tried to read this whole thread but I cannot find what I am looking for. Is there a way to connect a computer to the firewire ports extract the recordings?
Here you go:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=403695

Thanks :) Sorry I missed the obvious post, I got here via search so I didn't think about looking in the root of the forums list for another thread.

Still missing recordings all over the place. This thing is not being kind to me.

I still have to believe the subscription + 0-minute recording bugs have to be related to signal strength of the RF input in some way - too weak or too strong could cause problems. In Orange County for example there are a couple of users reporting many problems with 0-minute recordings while others in the same market none to very few incidences (I have very few myself). ReplayTVs are very sensitive to the signal levels coming in, so I it's not a stretch that the 6412 tuners could be even more sensitive to signal strength.

If this problem was really a very reproducible problem for me I would experiment with bringing in a direct feed from cable co. into the 6412 with no splits/amplifiers etc. in the path to see if the problem was improved. Other option is perhaps the reliability of the tuners is very suspect and swapping boxes may solve the problem.

I don't think it's signal strength. I've got 5 Replays working perfectly. The 6412 and a 2224 (on a BeyondTV PC) share a direct cable run to the Cox installed amp. All units have excellent output when viewed.

I got a second unit, it has the same issues.

It's software. I find that the 6412 records scheduled show prefectly if I tune to the shows and watch them when they begin. It defeats the whole purpose of having the silly thing, but it works.

I was sick a few days and watched alot of HD and it looked excellent, minimal mpeg artifacting. I still have high hopes that Cox will fix this great box, hopefully soon.

Pleeese VideooooGuy crack that whip on engineering!

Originally posted by Ed Rempalski
It's software. But see if the issue were just software why would it not be affecting everyone in the same market equally? After all we all have the same software right? There must be something user-specific that aggravates the problem more for some than others.

Perhaps, But software with it parameters set too tight, that it can't cope with normal variance in cable distribution is more probable to me.

My cable is completely viewable, the HD is really great. To me it means that the distribution is good, likely within a normal spec. Only the 6412's DVR functions are faltering.

Originally posted by moyekj
Along the same lines I find that at times you have to bring up the Guide and scroll through all days in order for the unit to "read" the guide for all 6 days. Only then will the to-be-recorded list show what it will do for all 6 days . . .

So I think there's a bug where sometimes even though the guide data is downloaded and stored on HDD it's not always updated in memory on the unit.

This exact problem happened to me for the first time (that I've noticed) tonight. The "to be recorded" list was not showing all it should be. I brought up the guide and hit "day +" a few times. Each time I got a brief lot of "no data" which then filled in with the proper program titles. The "to be recorded" list is now showing several days worth of programs. Sorry, this doesn't really add anything toward solving the problem, but I just wanted to confirm that I also had this problem for Videoooguy, et al.

Originally posted by moyekj
rdnichilo, I can confirm tiling bug is still there in Orange County. I tuned 1 tuner to 707 (ABCHD) and other to 702 (CBSHD) and selected pause on 1, swapped over to the other tuner and saw the tiling - very subdued tiles few and far between but certainly noticeable. Picture quality looked pretty good otherwise.

Yes, its back today. :mad:

I was able to really work the box yesterday, but not at all tonight.

Videoguy:

Please note that there appears to be a bug in the automatic search and record feature of the 6412. It is not adding the programs to be recorded when the guide is automatically updated.

Joe

I noticed that when I had several series set to record and checking the scheduled recordings verified that they were set to record.

After a zero length recording, checking the upcomming shows list again has these series NOT shown anymore.

If I go to the guide, to a show that I know is set to record but is not Hi-Lighted. If I leave the guide set there the hi-light will appear after a delay of up to a minute. This worked for all shows I tried, it would eventually correct itself.

Rumor - My Cox tech told me that he'd heard that an update was due out on Oct 28, Hope so.

Well, at least my local Cox finally picked up our Fox affiliate so I can stop futzing with my OTA antenna and just leave it pointed at ABC (which my Cox still doesn't carry...)

Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

Could one of you guys with a 6412 let me know what video outputs and how many it has. I have one of my 6208's on an older TV and I know the 6412 does not have RF out.

I'm suppose to be getting one soon and I want to make sure I have the proper cables.

Any help would be great.

Thanks,
Mark

Mark,

It has one each of DVI, Component, S-Video, and Composite, plus a firewire port, and 2 USB connectors (not sure what for though).

Chris

Make that 2 (active) firewire ports. The USB ports are currently not active AFAIK.

Another potential issue:

Starting on Sunday October 31, my shows are appearing in the guide (and in the list of shows to record) exactly one hour later. I assume this is related to the time change for Daylight Savings Time. I hope that this problem is going to work itself out at some point, either when the box updates to the new time or by way of some further adjustment to the guide itself. Otherwise, everything is going to be off by an hour.

Anyone else notice this?

Damon

I have been following this thread faithfully since the beginning, but have not posted until now. I'm in OC and have had the 6412 since the first week Cox began offering it here.

I've experienced all of the problems discussed in this thread, but tonight was a new one for me. I came home and sat down to watch tonight's Lost and LAX, and neither one of them recorded. They were not 0-minute recordings, but neither was even listed in the 'List'. Both shows are in my Series Manager, and last night I paged over to Wed night in the guide, and both shows were shaded red for record.

That is extremely frustrating. I never had to wonder if my scheduled shows would not record with my Tivo. And with Tivo if something was missing, I could always check the log and see why it did not record a scheduled show.

Thank goodness for suprnova.org.

-Kenny

Tonight there was also some real weirdness with my 6412. I too had both LAX and Lost scheduled to record from 8:00-9:00pm. The result was 2 very short recordings from 8:59-9:01pm and 8:59-9:00pm. This is NOT the subscription/0-minute recording bug because that always happens at the start of the show, not at the end and both recordings actually had video and audio for their full 2 and 1 minute durations. What's even stranger, when I play the video they show up as 61 and 60 minute durations even though they only play for 2 and 1 minute respectively.

Here's a snaphsot of Lost showing the 2 minute recording. The one directly below it - LAX is listed as a 1 minute recording.
http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/CIMG0226.JPG

So maybe you agree that it's the DVR software and not distribution?

Originally posted by Ed Rempalski
So maybe you agree that it's the DVR software and not distribution? Well, I don't see how this has much to do with the 0-minute recordings/subscription bug which I still believe is related to signal strength or some other individual factor. As I said before all my 0-minute recordings were due to subscription bug, this is something else entirely. No doubt about the software is screwy though, I agree with you on that.

The only difference I can think of that is different than before is this is the first time I set the unit to record 2 HD channels at the same time.

Originally posted by cpteague
Mark,

It has one each of DVI, Component, S-Video, and Composite, plus a firewire port, and 2 USB connectors (not sure what for though).

Chris

Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

cpteague and moyekj,

Can you tell me how many audio outputs?

Thanks for the information.

Mark

Digital, optical, and stereo.

Originally posted by moyekj
The only difference I can think of that is different than before is this is the first time I set the unit to record 2 HD channels at the same time.

moyekj, I don't think it is related to recording 2 HD shows simultaneously. I have done that many times over the last couple of weeks ... recording 2 HD channels while watching a previously recorded HD show ... with very good results ... no truncated recordings and very little, if any, tiling.

I did have a problem last week where the color was off on 1 of the 2 shows recorded. It almost looked like a double exposure. Not sure why and I have not had it again.

Last night I got LAX recorded while we watched Lost (both on HD) w/ no problem then at 9PM I started to flip around some regular analog ch. but the 6412 started to freeze not long after tuned in to each channel sometime both audio+video stop sometime the audio continues.

But all well on digital channel portion including the HD as I tried to watched the LAX recorded few hrs earlier, called Cox tech. after 10PM and the tech. can't do much other than tried to reset remotely w/o any diff. so I unplugged the power from the wall around 11:30PM and put it back on around 6AM but still the same.

Anybody seen this problem before? For sure the issue only effecting analog portion of it as I watched Today show on NBC HD w/o problem this morning.

It's only been a week but I'm gonna swap the box w/ Cox later this afternoon and see how it goes.

Audio outputs;
SPIF RF Digital, Optical, and RCA Stereo

Messed up video on occasion;
Replays get this once in a while when their encoders glitch. This happens rarely, but usually a re-boot clears it. Replays are currently set to auto-reboot anywhere from every 2 days for 4000's and once a week for 5000's. Kinda keeps their noses clean.

6412 (with Passport) as a DVR, bottom line;
As a HD STB it's great, loved the World Series, awsome quality.
As a PVR, until fixed, it's the most unreliable POS that I've played with in a while. I simply can't rely on it do do anything that it's programmed to do from one day to the next.

If I were Cox, I'd give the Passport GUI a pass very soon if they can't nail these easily reproduced bugs. Replays had their bumps, but this is almost funny.

Originally posted by Ed Rempalski

6412 (with Passport) as a DVR, bottom line;
. . .
As a PVR, until fixed, it's the most unreliable POS that I've played with in a while. I simply can't rely on it do do anything that it's programmed to do from one day to the next.

If I were Cox, I'd give the Passport GUI a pass very soon if they can't nail these easily reproduced bugs. Replays had their bumps, but this is almost funny. [/B]

I agree. For me one day it works, the next it doesn't. I had another zero length recording last night (702 @ 9:00).

Videoooguy, are you out there? Can you give us a status on the fix? Is Cox considering dumping Passport and going with something that works?

do i need to turn my 6412 off over night for it to retrieve and update guide information and schedule future recordings?
thanks

Originally posted by pcolom1
do i need to turn my 6412 off over night for it to retrieve and update guide information and schedule future recordings?
thanks According to Cox and VideooooGuy and from personal experience, no. Turning unit off doesn't really change much of anything compared to when it's on.

Dumb question...haven't had a chance to really research how Cable signal distribution works but...

I've run into issues recording or playing from the pause buffer during the evening prime time hours. (tiling, unsolicited pausing, etc...) Seems to happen quite a bit during the "popular" shows (Lost, Apprentice, etc..)

Doesn't seem to make much sense, as it's not really "shared" bandwith, correct? Or is there variable upstream bandwith that could also cause intermittent signal reduction?

BTW...Was seeing really bad tiling when I first got the box. Cox tech came out and said I had poor signal levels (luckily he was able to see the tiling when he was there) Plugged into a direct port at the outer box and it is much improved.

I am new to this forum and have searched it looking for specific information, but haven't found anything. I received my Motorola 6412 two days ago. I started seeing a problem last night with the optical out. I noticed that moyekj posted that it had analog, Digital, and Optical. I have the optical hooked up, but when I switch from ESPN HD to say INHD1 I lose the audio until is turn the box off and back on.

So here are a couple questions:
Can anyone direct me to a place where I can find the software package and version I am on?
Can anyone direct me to where I can find information or how to fix my optical audio problem?

Thanks in advance.

Easiest way to find out what software you are on, is to turn off the cable box and then hit "select" a few times to bring up the diagnostic screen. May take you a few times to do it right, but when you do, you will see a gray screen with menu items. Then use the arrow keys and enter/select (on the remote or the box) to scroll down and view the software revision.

As far as your audio problem goes, not really sure. Do you lose audio on only the digital optical out, or on the regular analog composites as well (red/white)? There are some audio settings, I believe, in the regular menu or advanced menu while the cable box is on, the PCM/Dolby D thing, maybe your receiver is choking on one of these two formats, or choking on a switch from DD 5.1 to ProLogic. Sorry can't be of more assistance...

-T

I use optical out and havent't seen that problem yet. You might have to have it checked by your cable guy, could be the box.

Has anyone had a negitive recording? I had it set to record from 11:30A.M.-12:00P.M. It recorded from 11:29A.M.-11:26A.M.

Andrew Wees

Originally posted by ajwees41
Has anyone had a negitive recording? I had it set to record from 11:30A.M.-12:00P.M. It recorded from 11:29A.M.-11:26A.M.

Andrew Wees

This is a known bug that is fixed in what we call the "Halloween" release of Motorola OS and Pioneer Passport software. We are still on schedule to install this by mid-November.

Regarding the earlier question - no, we are not considering going from Passport-Echo to some other guide. The other alternatives are not good.

Originally posted by VideooooGuy
This is a known bug that is fixed in what we call the "Halloween" release of Motorola OS and Pioneer Passport software. We are still on schedule to install this by mid-November.

Regarding the earlier question - no, we are not considering going from Passport-Echo to some other guide. The other alternatives are not good.

When will you be able to let us know what is in the November Passport and Motorola OS updates? Also do you know if the Motorola DCT 2500 has a six day guide like the 6412 does, or is it limited to the same four day guide as the Motorola DCT 2000?

Andrew Wees

Originally posted by VideooooGuy
Regarding the earlier question - no, we are not considering going from Passport-Echo to some other guide. The other alternatives are not good.

Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

VideooooGuy,

I have to chime in here. Have you seen and or tried the new i-Guide? Same goes for FE 1.7.

I find it hard to believe that Passport Echo is superior to FE 1.7 and Echo is at most marginally better than i-Guide.

My opinion. Curious to hear your reasoning.

Cox OC seems to have fixed the checkerboard problems in HD channels, but now my SD channels alternate between normal color and washed out looking colors. Anyone else have this problem? I thought it might be a problem with my plasma, but it doesn't occur in HD channels or while watching DVD's.

i just got my 6412, so i am still figuring things out, but i am having a big problem
before last night, i had one show recorded, west wing in hd.
my box was set to record 2 shows last night, americas top model in sd, and third watch in hd
so i wake up this morning, and west wing is gone, my two other shows are there with hour glasses and say "about a day"
and with only two shows, on my box, the setting screen shows the hd as almost full
i am pretty pissed that west wing was deleted, i guess for space??
so what could be going on, i know the box has a greater capacity than that?
thanks for any help

alright, i figured out what happened, it recorded nbc hd for hours after third watch ended
is this a common bug? did i do something wrong, what can i do so this doesn't happen again, it really messed me up...
thanks

pcolom1, there are many weird bugs with this unit right now... I think the coming time change doesn't help any either. Just scroll back a couple of pages and read this thread to get an idea of related and other bugs. There's a new firmware release coming out in mid-November that is supposed to address some of the bugs.

Perhaps it's just me, the Moto box, or Cox Cable but NBC HD seems slow on the trigger.

For the second time, "Third Watch" has been displayed with the smaller letter box and then at exactly 44 min into the show, I get the peacock with it's tail spinning around the screen for five minutes and then the full HD screen kicks in.

Perhaps some one late with the switch?

And then "Medical Investigation" followed last night with all the background sounds on, and no dialog.

WTF?

NBC SD had no problem. Anyone else experience this ????

Perhaps it's just me, the Moto box, or Cox Cable but NBC HD seems slow on the trigger.


It's the network, nothing to do with ya service provider or tuners.

I think, repeat I think, that they upgraded the software here on Cox RI.

At 7:45 AM this morning the box shut off, powered up and showed the Pioneer splash screen, and then shut off again.

I tried the below instructions until my thumb got sore, to no avail.


Any more specific instructions on checking the software revision ??


Originally posted by neyugnt
Easiest way to find out what software you are on, is to turn off the cable box and then hit "select" a few times to bring up the diagnostic screen. May take you a few times to do it right, but when you do, you will see a gray screen with menu items. Then use the arrow keys and enter/select (on the remote or the box) to scroll down and view the software revision.-T

Originally posted by apaulct
Walburga,

To get to the diagnostic menu on the 6412 turn the box off then within 2 seconds press select twice. This will bring you to various diagnostic submenus. d08 is the software menu. other things you can see on the menus are cable signal strength, error counts, hard drive space, etc. I think you must be connected to the component output to see the diagnostics ... I have tried with a firewire connection and did not get a display.

Allen


Ok. I tried this technique and it worked the first time.

Firmware 9.11
object: TCAS5705, ver 57.05

Whatever that means.

Interesting tidbit. D13 tells you the remaining capacity on the HD.

In my case, 33 of 120 GB left.

Bob

Originally posted by Bob R
Ok. I tried this technique and it worked the first time.

Firmware 9.11
object: TCAS5705, ver 57.05

Whatever that means.

Interesting tidbit. D13 tells you the remaining capacity on the HD.

In my case, 33 of 120 GB left.

Bob

Bob have you noticed any other changes in the guide or software?

Cox Omaha still has Firmware 9.11
object TCAS5705 ver 56.05

Andrew Wees

9.11 is not a new firmware version, it's the same first dual tuner version we've had for last few weeks.

Originally posted by moyekj
9.11 is not a new firmware version, it's the same first dual tuner version we've had for last few weeks.

There is a difference in the object TCAS5705 versions Bob has ver 57.05 and I have ver 56.05 in Omaha,

Andrew Wees

Well Andrew, I can't see anything about the menu or software that jumps out to me as different.

However .....

One of the things that has not bothered me very much is pixelation. Perhaps that's because I do not record as much HD, as some of the other posters on this thread.

Today I'm watching my SD recording of the Red Sox victory parade and when I hit "live", it switched to HBO HD and pixels galore. Hmmm.. I had observed it once or twice before so no big thing, eh?

Then I shut the set off, and about 1/2 hour later my wife turns it on and right at start-up - mucho pixelation! I had never experienced this before so something has most definately taken a turn for the worse. At no other time had I experienced pixelation when turning the set on, or changing HD channels - only when stopping a HD recording and switching directly to a live HD feed.

I'll be curious to see what others experience.

Bob

Originally posted by ajwees41
Bob have you noticed any other changes in the guide or software?

Cox Omaha still has Firmware 9.11
object TCAS5705 ver 56.05

Andrew Wees

I got rebooted in Orange County Ca this morning as well.

I'm at FW 9.11 Object 5705 Ver 57.05, I don't know what it was before as I never bothered to check.

My box in Orange County rebooted itself also at 11:55am while I was watching. No change in code modules and haven't noticed any changes. Lots of motion artifacting while watching football on CBS-HD today... FOX-HD looks pretty good.

I used TSReader Lite to analyze some clips to extract the true Video bit rates:
CBS-HD: 13.97Mbps (1920x1080i, 30fps)
FOX-HD: 11.74Mbps (1280x720p, 60fps)

NOTE: This compared to ~19Mbps for OTA.

Same here... lots and lots of motion artifacts yesterday with football on CBS.

I am reaching my limits with this piece of [fill in the blank]!! Today it is not recording my scheduled recordings due to the time change. It seems to think the shows should be on an hour earlier, and since they are not on at that time - no recording. Anyone else having this problem or just me?

This issue, with tiling making it all but unusable at times is really making the $1000 HD Tivo (which is starting to come down in price, I saw an ad for $699 somewhere for new customers) look more reasonable. At least the Tivo works.

Videooguy, you have stopped many of us from jumping ship by providing information and letting us know that Cox is aware of the problems. Please give us some more detailed updates. Local Customer service is a joke, and just drive me more toward "other services". If you can give us some firm dates as to when these problems will be fixed you will be doing Cox a huge service. I have already told several friends to hold off on this box as it is not ready. If I jump ship, so will they.

I know this may come across as a threat, but that is not at all how it is intended. From the input Videooguy is giving us, Cox looks good, and I have been patient. But I am getting extremely frustrated with this box. SD looks awful. Tiling, zero length recordings, and now this. If I bought this box, it would have been returned long ago.

rdenichilo, looks like many of the 6412 boxes were either manually rebooted or rebooted themselves yesterday (Sunday), probably to address this time change issue. Perhaps you should just unplug the unit and then plug it back in to reboot it. I had a couple of shows record at scheduled time last night - of course both had severe tiling for some reason that made them unwatchable (even though I took the normal precautions to avoid the tiling), but that's a broken record complaint by now and is supposed to be addressed very soon - mid-November or so at the latest. I agree it would be nice to hear from VideooooGuy again.

I mentioned last week in a post that I could see a problem brewing with the box concerning the time change, but nobody responded. It does appear that the box rebooted to effectuate the time change, but it did not automatically change all the recordings. It seems to me that the recordings that were set as "all times" are correctly scheduled but the ones that were set to a specific time, such as 8:00pm only, are now incorrect. They are listed in the list of shows to record but they are not highlighted in the guide.

I ended up deleting and rescheduling any shows that were not still highlighted in the guide to be recorded. Fortunately, that was not too many.

Damon

Originally posted by moyekj
. . . looks like many of the 6412 boxes were either manually rebooted or rebooted themselves yesterday (Sunday), probably to address this time change issue. . ..

Mine rebooted as well. The box knows the right time, but the scheduled recordings are off by one hour.

I appreciate the tip, and I will try it when I get home. However, that doesn't solve the issue with the box. This should not happen. Period. I understand the perils of being an early adopter, and thats why I have lived with the box so far. But, I am reaching my limits.

Originally posted by DWillens666
It seems to me that the recordings that were set as "all times" are correctly scheduled but the ones that were set to a specific time, such as 8:00pm only, are now incorrect.

Damon

That is exactly the issue I am having.

Originally posted by DWillens666
It seems to me that the recordings that were set as "all times" are correctly scheduled but the ones that were set to a specific time, such as 8:00pm only, are now incorrect.
Now that you mention it, I had this problem too. Yesterday I had to re-setup a one-time recording of an NFL game since the guide refused to show it was going to record it. Most of my other recordings are "recurring, first run" type and those apparently still do show up to be recorded as you mentioned. Also agree this is a very basic kind of bug that should have been caught by QA. Looks like we just have to accept that we are the beta testers of this box.

I too have this problem, I'd imagine everyone does at this point. Cox needs to get on the ball here, I'm VERY disappointed overall in this device and were it not the ONLY device on the market that did what it does I'd DEFINITELY switch. Cox can't expect to keep customers with this box. The bugs I've seen thus far are one thing, but the fact that the MAJORITY of my recordings had a specific time set really screwed me up, my wife was absolutely LIVID that none of the Sunday recordings went, and a lot of recordings are an hour off (I actually get the show on the channel but it's not the right one). This is absolutely unacceptable, I can live with the 0 minute recording here and there or a little tiling sometimes but for ALL of my shows to have to be set to any time is ABSOLUTELY REDICULOUS! I don't know what else to say, I wouldn't recommend this box to ANYBODY at this point and I miss my ReplayTV more than ever right now!
Tom

rdenichilo - I don't post much out here, but I noticed your post about jumping to the HD Tivo. My buddy bought one early and now if on his fourth one. They keep dying on him. He says it works great until it dies. Now he has been given new boxes each time, which he should, but please be aware that it is not a perfect box either.

Time Change and Guide Data

I too missed recording because of the time change. I'd like to expand to complaint though to what the root of the problem is, which is that the guide data is so bad that the only way to keep it from recording the same program that happens to repeat 3 times a day is to lock it to a single time. Of course that effectively kills the purpose of having a season pass to begin with.

Case and point. "The Wire" on HBO, which airs on multiple channels at different times (east/west/zone) and airs multiple times in the same week. If I set record "first run only" it doesn't record ANYTHING because it's in re-run. If I set "first run & repeats) I get 5 recordings of the same freaking episode each week. TiVo didn't do this, 3 years ago ti was smart enough to know not to RE-Record something it had just recorded in the last couple weeks.

Further, so much of the guide data Cox uses lacks the specific details to uniquely identify the episode as to make it difficult anyway. Per this post by Videooguy (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4457119#post4457119) Cox Orange County, CA get's it's guide data from GAC. Frankly the suggestion to contact GAC directly is ridiculous. GAC is a contractor to Cox, it's not my job to police their crappy contractors. It’s my job to complain to Cox (which I did via email) and for them to fix the problem.

One last note: I can count the number of times over the course of more than a year that had a problem the guide data provided on my TiVo on one hand... with Cox I ran out of finders and toes after three weeks!!!

Originally posted by jb510
Case and point. "The Wire" on HBO, which airs on multiple channels at different times (east/west/zone) and airs multiple times in the same week. If I set record "first run only" it doesn't record ANYTHING because it's in re-run. If I set "first run & repeats) I get 5 recordings of the same freaking episode each week. TiVo didn't do this, 3 years ago ti was smart enough to know not to RE-Record something it had just recorded in the last couple weeks.

TiVo has something they call the "28-Day Rule" - it won't record the same episode twice within a 28-day period. This is something that the 6412 desparately needs.

jb510, under Series Recording Options you can restrict to a specific channel and specific days of the week, which helps significantly cut down on the number of matching recordings. You can further filter out multiple matches in a day by restricting number of episodes to keep. It's still no Tivo Season Pass but gets you much closer to what you would like to achieve using current software version, just in a different way.

I know this is a silly question, but why doesn't it just have a "no repeats" option? There are quite a few re-run episodic shows that aren't debuting or "NEW" in the eyes of the 6412's program guide, yet I'd love to have the option, for example, to record every [WHATEVER] *AS LONG AS IT'S NOT ALREADY RECORDED*. Just a simple option like that would be great. What I have to do now is set series option First Run & Repeats, then delete the scheduled duplicate recordings.. It works, but just a bother...

-T

These are different "builds" of the Motorola 9.11 software which are required depending which Video on Demand software is bundled with the OS and guide. (some cities don't have VoD, some have software from SeaChange and some have software from Concurrent).

Originally posted by ajwees41
There is a difference in the object TCAS5705 versions Bob has ver 57.05 and I have ver 56.05 in Omaha,

Andrew Wees

To all who have asked recently ...

We're still on track to install the "Halloween" fixes by mid-November. I know it's difficult, but please try to be patient as we complete our testing.

Thanks!

VideooooGuy will the Halloween fixes be a major update meaning a letter from cox like what was sent when the dual tuner was enabled, or a minor one? Also any update as to when the Picture in Picture able 6412 will be available?

Andrew Wees





Originally posted by VideooooGuy
To all who have asked recently ...

We're still on track to install the "Halloween" fixes by mid-November. I know it's difficult, but please try to be patient as we complete our testing.

Thanks!

Originally posted by ajwees41
VideooooGuy will the Halloween fixes be a major update meaning a letter from cox like what was sent when the dual tuner was enabled, or a minor one? Also any update as to when the Picture in Picture able 6412 will be available?

Andrew Wees I thought PIP was already ruled out for the 6412 box since it only has 1 decoder.

Here's VideoooooGuy post on the subject (new HD video processing chip will be needed - probably from Broadcom - to accomplish this):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4463380#post4463380

I still don't understand the motivation for PIP though. Years back I spent extra money for a TV that supported PIP thinking what a neat feature to have. I never really used it though. Now with a DVR you can watch programs on your own schedule so I see even less reason to have PIP.

Anyone else see REALLY BAD picture tiling and sound breakup last night? I was trying to watch Lost, and it was hard to follow the story, because the sound would cut out for up to 5 seconds at a time, and I would miss entire lines of dialogue. At the same time, the picture would completely freeze - much worse than the tiling that I've seen in the past. I had never seen it this bad before. I hope it doesn't mean my box is failing.

Yes, LOST seemed especially bad last night, tiling was worse than I have ever seen on this box. I thought maybe it was just me but obviously not. I noticed the freezes and audio cutouts as well. I actually re-scheduled it to record the repeat Sat night so I can watch it.

Damon

Yes, LOST on ABC-HD was really bad for me last night too - looked like a slight case of the HD tiling bug along with several second audio dropouts. However, I recorded LAX (NBCHD) on the 6412 last night at the same time (on other tuner) and it turned out pretty good with no tiling or audio dropouts, so I assumed it was the ABC-HD feed itself that had the problems. i.e. not the 6412 to blame this time, though I could be wrong.

I'm trying to be patient, but VideooooGuy, I believe you mentioned that the "subscription bug" and "zero-length recordings" aren't addressed in the "Halloween" release?

Is that true?, and if so, do you have any status on this?

I still can't record ANY programmed show unless I literally watch it and hit "record this show". Always get zero-length recordings otherwise.

Thanks

The problem with LOST was the ABC signal in LA and SF. I'm still getting my HD OTA (I'm just using the 6412 as a PVR), and I switched to SD when I could no longer stand the sound glitches, tiling and picture freezes. Comcast HD subscribers and at least one other OTA user reported the same problems.

Well, just got my HD-DVR from Cox installed today, but glad I insisted that the VCR be kept hooked up.

I've had a few incidents of the 1 min recording, but it seems to be due to random power cycling of the box.

In a 1 hour span, the box power cycled itself about 10 times. Many times, it looks like it power cycled immediately after the start of a record, but just watching both HD and SD channels, the power cycling seemed to be ocurring irrespective of recording.

Clepto.....

I am in a suburb of Chicago and had my 6214 via Comcast installed today. I am having the same rebooting problem you seem to having. We are not alone, many others today in my area have had the same problem. They are coming out tomorrow with another 6214. Seems like a wide spread problem :mad:

Gov

After much anticipation our Cox system installed the Moto 6412 in our area of Oklahoma. I've read this forum with great interest since the install a couple of weeks ago. I have experienced most of the same problems that I've seen described here and hope to see these fixed in future (soon I hope!) upgrades. Zero minute recordings have to be the most frustrating as it defeats the whole reason to have a DVR installed. I want to be able to program the machine to record when I am not home...not have to be here to push the record button! I have only had the problem on our CBS High Def channel and it is the one channel that when switching to will show a subscription screen for about 3 or 4 seconds before 'real' tv appears. I'm sure the problems must be related. I have also experienced the problem with fast forwarding and then using the play button for view where the video backtracks as much as a minute. A temporary solution mentioned on this forum has helped with that problem...simply fast forward and hit the pause button twice and it will hold its time properly. I am impressed with the technology that allows me to record HDTV programming for viewing on my schedule, but sure hope some of the frustrations detailed on this forum will be addressed soon. It is great to have a participant like Videooooguy on this forum addressing some of these issues from Cox's perspective and perhaps giving us Cox's ear in these matters!

I wonder if a lot of the 'Zero Length Recording' issues are just instances where the DVR starts to record, and then power cycles.

In the time it takes to power cycle, it doesn't attempt to restart recording, because the time when it should have started recording has passed.

Nope, that is not the case. I can be watching the channel and get a zero length recording. The box is not power cycling in any way.

Clepto, "power cycling" is the box re-booting for some reason. I've only seen this once on mine during a playback operation. Constant reboots doesn't sound "normal" to what I've read in this thread so far.

I get zero length recordings, almost always these days, with no re-boot involved.

I have been watching carefully the events around my unit recording and I can now say that if my box is OFF, it will always zero-length record all shows that are scheduled.

If I have the box ON and tuned to the channel that is scheduled to record, the unit will briefly display the record banner for a few seconds, one minute before the show starts, and record normally. I can then turn the box off and the recording will continue.

Getting a new box tomorrow, so hopefully that'll at least stop the random reboots.

Sadly, the picture is so good on the HD channels when it works, I can't bring myself to say screw it and cancel the service q:

PIP with 6412...

I had it working briefly, but it was using the internal tuner of my TV to do the pip from an analog channel. Maybe it was just my TV doing the PIP though.

Yep... I can do PIP too, but it uses the internal QAM tuner of my set to do it ;)

____________________________________________________________
"I get zero length recordings, almost always these days, with no re-boot involved.

I have been watching carefully the events around my unit recording and I can now say that if my box is OFF, it will always zero-length record all shows that are scheduled.

If I have the box ON and tuned to the channel that is scheduled to record, the unit will briefly display the record banner for a few seconds, one minute before the show starts, and record normally. I can then turn the box off and the recording will continue"
____________________________________________________________


Ed, I would like to have a work around for the 0 minute recording issue and it looks like you have found a few ways around the problem. Are you able to schedule the DVR to record a program and just leave the cable box on and successfully record with out the problem? Do you have to have the box set to the channel you are wanting to record? Any advice would be appreciated. I haven't had the problem with every channel I've set up a schedule to record, just the CBS HiDef channel that always shows a subscription screen when you switch to the channel (even in normal viewing). Maybe I should just schedule the non-HiDef feed to record, but that that kind of defeats one of the reasons I wanted this box. Thanks!

I'm in the same boat, we are recording all CBS-HD Shows with this box. It's most likely the subscription-bug that's causing scheduled CBS recordings to fail.

I think that leaving the box ON and tuned to CBS will allow scheduled CBS shows to record reliably.

It's when the box has to wake and/or change channels to CBS that it fails. It's a sad situation for now.

I once got a subscription error when the channel I was watching was the same as what was being recorded. The error was shown on the channel I was watching (althoug the tuner was using the other tuner).

You need to change the second tuner to the recorded channel to test this out.

Originally posted by moyekj
...I still don't understand the motivation for PIP though. Years back I spent extra money for a TV that supported PIP thinking what a neat feature to have. I never really used it though. Now with a DVR you can watch programs on your own schedule so I see even less reason to have PIP.

Ditto... The only useful thing I ever could do with PIP was when I had TiVo (oh those were the days). I was able watch live programming while simultaneously having my TiVo feeding the PIP. That way I could browse through all my recordings, browse through TV guide, set up season passes, peruse wish lists and keep things organized... oh those were the days. Since the 6412 keeps the picture in the upper right corner there is no point anymore…

I think Rich4AV is right about where the box needs to be set. To record on a channel that is having the 0 minute issue, the channel needs to be set on the 2nd tuner to avoid the subscription screen. I can get to the second receiver by simply using the 'swap' button...setting the channel...and then 'swap' back to watch another channel. Pretty crazy to have to do any of this, but maybe they will fix the problem soon. I had a little different problem last night I wonder if any others have experienced. I had the second tuner set to the channel that was to be recorded from a recording series I have set up. When coming home from other activities..I checked the DVR list and found the program wasn't recorded at all...no '0' minute recording...no recording at all. I checked the Guide after the fact and it definitely showed the program was set to record at the appointed time, but apparantly didn't. How can the machine fail to even attempt to record when the program is definitely set to record at an appointed time? My kids have Tivo and Dish Network DVRs and never experience the problems this box has had...but I'm hanging in there hoping for some fixes soon!!

I absolutely tried to set the "background" tuner to the channel I wanted to record, and it fails every time... Only the foreground tuner works for me.

Does anybody know what effects the buffer time? I swear, I've had 1 hour of buffer on each tuner for at least a month or more, then last week I only had 30 minutes. Now this week, it's back to one hour. Anybody else notice this?

Perhaps it shortens the buffer when the disk is getting full. Or maybe Cox is downloading some new software mods, then taking them away. I've been getting used to the 60 minute buffer and really like the additional time.

For sure the buffer time varies depending on if you are tuned to HD or SD channels, and it probably varies according to available disk space as you mentioned.

Originally posted by Ed Rempalski
I absolutely tried to set the "background" tuner to the channel I wanted to record, and it fails every time... Only the foreground tuner works for me.

Ed, I just wanted to let you know what I've had none of the problems you have had since I had my box replaced

The only issues I've had with the unit is the same as the rest, with PQ in HD.

You may want to have them change the box out again?

Well, Cox came by to replace my box with a new one, even had the plastic sticker covering the front display.

Immediately after hooking it up, it proceeded to reboot itself about 8 times in a row.

He tried another box, and that one seemed to do the trick. Knock on wood, hope this one is stable, third time being the charm and all (;

What are the odds that I'd have two 6412's with solid subscription bug/zero length record issues?