Cox Cable 6412 w/ Pioneer Passport Review and Discussion [Text View] - Page 9

sblasl

11-15-05, 09:27 PM

sblasl

11-15-05, 09:34 PM

Also anyone using Cox have a newer firmware than 12.15? 12.22 is suspose to fix the 5:1 DD sound problem.

I got a PIII today and the firmware is 12.18.

moyekj

11-15-05, 09:57 PM

Hello,

(This probably needs to be somewhere else, but everyone here seems to be so familiar/knowledgeable I thought I would try here first.) - Very new at a lot of this stuff... trying to get it all figured out all at once.

Just signed up with Cox in Heber Spring, AR. Have the PIII 6412. I also have a Sony KP-51WS500 (Wide Screen RPTV) utilizing a DVI cable with a HDMI to DVI Adaptor. What should I be setting the 6412 on and what should I be setting the Sony on to obtain the best picture quality?

If you need additional info to help me out, please let me know.

Thanks in advance There have been several reports of PIII HDMI connection to a display causing reboot problems. The problem is supposedly fixed with 12.22 firmware which I don't think any Cox market has right now. The workaround for now is to use Component connection. There are also some other reported problems with PIII, summarized here:
http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/dct6412/DCT6412_Passport.html#Phase_3_Box

As far as best display settings it's really best to try all combinations and see what you like best. A popular choice here is to set the DCT6412 to output 1080i for both HD and SD programming. That way when you switch from SD to HD channel or vice versa there is no re-syncing needed by your display since it always get 1080i from the DCT6412. However some displays can do a much better job of upscaling 480i to the native resolution of the display so your mileage may vary. I find the DCT6412 does a better job of 480i->1080i upscaling than my oldish LCD display so I set DCT6412 for 1080i for both SD and HD sources.

Best way to play around with display modes is described here:
http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/dct6412/DCT6412_Passport.html#Specifying_Video_Output_formats

My current choice is (1080i HD, 1080i stretched SD):
Output format = 1080i Wide
Stretch 4:3 Pic

If you want to keep 480i aspect ratio (not stretch horizontally thus causing some distortion) you would pick:
Sidebar 4:3 Pic
But of course with this setting you get sidebars which can be annoying.

Finally, if you want to let your display do the 480i upscaling you would pick:
Preserve 4:3 Pic - 480i
But then you have to live with the display re-syncing when switching between HD & SD channels. With this mode you can use your display stretch modes to test if it does a better stretch job than the DCT6412 - from my trials I prefer to the DCT6412 stretch to my monitor stretch.

bad62bug

11-16-05, 06:43 AM

cox in CT now has TNTHD CH 714 sweet

Bud-man

11-16-05, 08:38 AM

cox in CT now has TNTHD CH 714 sweet

I woke up and found that too, if we could get ABC HD then that would be a pretty sweet setup,but TNTHD is kinda like FOXHD, most shows are "upconverted" to HD levels and dont look that great, we'll see when Saving Private Ryan is on tonight!

sblasl

11-16-05, 09:54 AM

moyek,

Thanks for the in-depth response, it is greatly appreciated. How do I go about configuring the DCT6412 so that both SD and HD are set at 1080i?

As far as best display settings it's really best to try all combinations and see what you like best. A popular choice here is to set the DCT6412 to output 1080i for both HD and SD programming. That way when you switch from SD to HD channel or vice versa there is no re-syncing needed by your display since it always get 1080i from the DCT6412. However some displays can do a much better job of upscaling 480i to the native resolution of the display so your mileage may vary. I find the DCT6412 does a better job of 480i->1080i upscaling than my oldish LCD display so I set DCT6412 for 1080i for both SD and HD sources.
.

moyekj

11-16-05, 10:55 AM

moyek,

Thanks for the in-depth response, it is greatly appreciated. How do I go about configuring the DCT6412 so that both SD and HD are set at 1080i? How to get to the appropriate menu is covered in that link I posted above:
http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/dct6412/DCT6412_Passport.html#Specifying_Video_Output_formats
Then choose:
Output format = 1080i Wide
Stretch 4:3 Pic

Bud-man

11-16-05, 11:16 AM

How to get to the appropriate menu is covered in that link I posted above:
http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/dct6412/DCT6412_Passport.html#Specifying_Video_Output_formats
Then choose:
Output format = 1080i Wide
Stretch 4:3 Pic

Ive always set mine to 1080i/preserve 480i picture, i do see when switching back to SD channels the input screen is presented on the screen for a few seconds, now i'm using HDMI again i dont see that,i'll check that out tonight....thanks moyekj!
BTW....your website's on the 6412 are EXCELLENT!!

ajwees41

11-16-05, 07:09 PM

It's now November. I wounder when Cox will get the updated passport Echo software?

Andrew Wees

moyekj

11-16-05, 07:44 PM

It's now November. I wounder when Cox will get the updated passport Echo software?

Andrew Wees I assume you are talking about 2.7? Consider yourself lucky to have 2.5, here in Orange County we are still on 1.6 :mad:

ajwees41

11-16-05, 08:30 PM

Yes I was talking about version 2.7 I wounder if Orange County did update the software because they new it was buggy.

Andrew Wees

I assume you are talking about 2.7? Consider yourself lucky to have 2.5, here in Orange County we are still on 1.6 :mad:

moyekj

11-16-05, 08:46 PM

Yes I was talking about version 2.7 I wounder if Orange County did update the software because they new it was buggy.

Andrew Wees What bugs specifically are you running into with 2.5? Subscription Bug is fixed or much improved is it not? Remember that the P3 box firmware bugs with HDMI and audio switching are not due to Passport Software so those don't count.

Bud-man

11-17-05, 07:44 AM

1.6 here also in hartford ct. :(

ajwees41

11-17-05, 01:46 PM

I meant maybe the Orange County headend didn't because after they tested it they found bugs, or that it wouldn't work for some reason.

Andrew Wees

What bugs specifically are you running into with 2.5? Subscription Bug is fixed or much improved is it not? Remember that the P3 box firmware bugs with HDMI and audio switching are not due to Passport Software so those don't count.

moyekj

11-17-05, 04:28 PM

I meant maybe the Orange County headend didn't because after they tested it they found bugs, or that it wouldn't work for some reason.

Andrew Wees The only reason I ever heard for the delay is that Orange County and New England markets use different VOD provider and there was some incompatability with Passport Echo 2.5 and the VOD software which would explain why only Orange County & New England were left behind. I told CSRs several times I really didn't care if VOD didn't work for me, just give me the update anyway, but of course that never flies. Latest "official" word from CSRs is January we may finally get the 2.5 update for Orange County. Since we have been living with the various well known/reported/documented bugs of 1.6 for so long I have high hopes that 2.5 will fix most/all of those issues which is why I was curious specifically what bugs remain with 2.5.

The only complaints I see here recently are mostly related to P3 box firmware issues or those with older 1.6 software. The P3 issues supposedly are fixed with 12.22 Motorola firmware which some Comcast markets already received and confirmed the fixes. Thus judging from this forum anyway it seems 2.5 is indeed much better than 1.6 and has most of the fixes one would care about. 2.7 has some interesting enhancements but nothing earth shattering so at this point I think I'd be happy with 2.5.

ajwees41

11-17-05, 06:59 PM

I wounder then if Orange County and New England will wait then and use the 2.7 passport Echo. The main reason I think 2.7 is better is it is supposed to have a gauge to show how hard drive space is left.

Andrew Wees

The only reason I ever heard for the delay is that Orange County and New England markets use different VOD provider and there was some incompatability with Passport Echo 2.5 and the VOD software which would explain why only Orange County & New England were left behind. I told CSRs several times I really didn't care if VOD didn't work for me, just give me the update anyway, but of course that never flies. Latest "official" word from CSRs is January we may finally get the 2.5 update for Orange County. Since we have been living with the various well known/reported/documented bugs of 1.6 for so long I have high hopes that 2.5 will fix most/all of those issues which is why I was curious specifically what bugs remain with 2.5.

The only complaints I see here recently are mostly related to P3 box firmware issues or those with older 1.6 software. The P3 issues supposedly are fixed with 12.22 Motorola firmware which some Comcast markets already received and confirmed the fixes. Thus judging from this forum anyway it seems 2.5 is indeed much better than 1.6 and has most of the fixes one would care about. 2.7 has some interesting enhancements but nothing earth shattering so at this point I think I'd be happy with 2.5.

moyekj

11-17-05, 07:27 PM

The main reason I think 2.7 is better is it is supposed to have a gauge to show how hard drive space is left.
Though perhaps not very convenient you can see that now as follows:
Menu-Down-B-Up-B
(Same page that shows firmware and software versions)

Bud-man

11-17-05, 08:32 PM

Though perhaps not very convenient you can see that now as follows:
Menu-Down-B-Up-B
(Same page that shows firmware and software versions)

Well alot of people dont know that lil trick would be ALOT easier just to show a graph and NOT allow you to record a program without the proper space, 1.6 just lets you record without saying you dont have enough space left, so when i get home the red record light never lit.
I just want 12.22 for XMAS!!!!

Jeffknelson

11-18-05, 11:32 AM

moyekj

11-18-05, 12:38 PM

So I'm on my third 6412 III box because of a problem. About 20% of the shows I record don't take. When I got to watch them and click "play" the program does not start and I get a message asking me if I want to save or erase. They've refreshed the box which does no good. Cox is sending someone out in a week to check it, but I suspect it is a bug related to the 1.6 version software which I have. Is this the infamous subscription bug? Help. A few telltale signs of subscription bug (which I believe only affects HD channels):
* Saved Shows list shows a 0-minute recording (A.K.A. 1 minute recording)
* You tune to the channel for that failed recording and you get a Subscription message
* The Scheduled Recordings list doesn't list any upcoming recordings for certain channels.

Be sure to complain and state it's due to subscription bug even if it isn't since we need that fix already. BTW this forum is specific to Cox OC and latest given date for fix is 11/30:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6557021

ukaussi

11-18-05, 12:51 PM

Had tech out yesterday checking boxes and signal strength as getting flashing red lights on one box and weird symbols on other.

He mentioned that the max HD recording is not the 14 or so hours originally mentioned but is closer to 8-10.
He mentioned that issues may beome more common when you get close to that limit.

moyekj

11-18-05, 01:17 PM

He mentioned that the max HD recording is not the 14 or so hours originally mentioned but is closer to 8-10. Depends entirely on what mix of channels you are recording. No one estimate is going to be right for everyone. Take a look at:
http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/dct6412/DCT6412_Passport.html#Sample_Mpeg2_Transport_Stream

This is why none of these PVRs give you an estimate of recording time remaining because it's impossible to give an accurate estimate. The only thing that can be accurately displayed is remaining disk space available.

marc1023

11-19-05, 01:46 PM

I experienced a new bizarre behavior by the DVR (Phase 2)last night. It was set to record Amazing Race at 9 on GSN channel 344. At 9:30 I went into List and selected Amazing Race. All I got was a black screen with the time bar. It wouldn't play, ff etc.. I waited until 10:30 and went back and tried to launch the show. I now got the familiar both tuners are busy press A to stop or Press B to save. Of course neither tuner was recording anything at that time. I could not get it to play althougth the saved show was listed and it said 9 to 10 PM so it wasn't the subscriptipn bug. This morning, 12 hours later, I got the same press A or B message even though I wasn't recording anything.
BTW Moyekj I get the subscription bug consistently, at least once per week, on channel 57 HGTV, so I don't think it is limited to the HD channels only. Drives my wife nuts. After having this pice of junk for a year I still have to back up every recording on my other DVR

moyekj

11-19-05, 08:16 PM

I've updated my Motorola DCT6412 2 tuner HDTV PVR w/ Passport Echo Information web page to reflect Passport Echo 2.5.x software. Orange County is finally scheduled for that update on 11/30. The updated information is based on information from this forum as well as information from a friend that has the software. If anyone with 2.5.x sees anything wrong or missing please let me know. A summary of differences from 1.6.x to 2.5.x:

1. Subscription Bug fixed!!
2. All bugs related to playback of still-recording shows are fixed!!
3. Top FF speed is now quite a bit faster - yeah!
4. After turning 6412 off it no longer leaves video visible on 2 sides
of the screen when tuned to a 16:9 channel.
4. Bumped shows will record if a conflicting recording is stopped/canceled
5. Quick Settings/Diagnostics menu (Menu,Down,B,Up,B) now split up into 3
separate screens which can be selected using A,B,C buttons.
A=CFS data (guide data) B=DVR recording data C=DVR Info (default)
Both tuner frequencies now displayed on page 2 of Info.
6. Automatically prompts for extended record time (30 mins by default)
when scheduling recordings for Sport or Live events
7. Can create recordings from Quick Info browser
8. Cancelled recordings now stick around in Guide and Scheduled Recordings
list (can be deleted from Scheduled Recordings)
9. Skipped channels skipped in channel up/down and identified in Program Guide
with a *.

Bud-man

11-19-05, 11:15 PM

Wonder if Ct Cox will get it?, any news on newer firmware to fix the 5:1 hdmi bug? 12.22???

moyekj

11-19-05, 11:32 PM

Wonder if Ct Cox will get it?, any news on newer firmware to fix the 5:1 hdmi bug? 12.22??? The P3 box firmware update for HDMI bug fix (and presumably also the audio switching bug fix) is tentatively scheduled for about 1 week after the 11/30 update putting it around 12/6 in Orange County. Don't know if it is scheduled around that time in other Cox markets. I'd say if you really care enough about the issues then call your local tech support and demand to speak to someone who may know something. If you persist enough you can usually dig up some information even if it means getting the supervisor's boss.

AMRivlin

11-19-05, 11:53 PM

This is great news. Skipped channels and ALL. Super!

marc1023

11-21-05, 11:49 AM

ajwees41

11-21-05, 05:36 PM

Pioneer just released Passport Echo 2.7. I don't think any any cable company has the updates yet.

Andrew Wees

Many of you in OC may have received an email from Cox today announcing the changes to the on-screen guide for 11/30. At the bottom of the email it states: Important: This does not effect our Digital Video Recorder customers. This upgrade is on your Standard Digital Cable box (the black one).
Does this mean none of the changes discussed here and hoped for the 30th will happen??

Bud-man

11-22-05, 06:01 AM

Many of you in OC may have received an email from Cox today announcing the changes to the on-screen guide for 11/30. At the bottom of the email it states: Important: This does not effect our Digital Video Recorder customers. This upgrade is on your Standard Digital Cable box (the black one).
Does this mean none of the changes discussed here and hoped for the 30th will happen??

Sounds like DVR wont get anything, i'm still on 1.6 and now 2.7 is being released, Cox really sucks!!
It's time to really push and make some serious calls to upper tier
My shop works on Cox trucks, time for me the get some inside scoop.

ajwees41

11-22-05, 10:45 AM

It's not really cox's fault. It may seem that it is. Motorola came on the dvr scene late in the game. The blame should lay with Motorola mainly because Scientific Atlanta uses Pioneer Passport Echo for some of there dvr's also and they don't seem to have the problems the 6412's do.

Andrew Wees

Sounds like DVR wont get anything, i'm still on 1.6 and now 2.7 is being released, Cox really sucks!!
It's time to really push and make some serious calls to upper tier
My shop works on Cox trucks, time for me the get some inside scoop.

Crescent

11-22-05, 06:05 PM

Wow! You had to know that was going to draw fire. Any company should test it's product before selling it. Otherwise, there should be no charge for beta testers.

doug1s

11-24-05, 07:32 AM

I just had my 7th box from Cox installed to no avail. With HDMI cables I have chronic power cycling when my TV is turned off. That also frequently disrupts the DVR function because the box will power cycle during a recording and cancel the recording mid-way through. This is an extremely frustrating situation because I just shelled out way more than I can really afford for a new Samsung DLP and the picture just isn't nearly as good with component video cables. If anyone hears of a fix (like finding a non-power-carrying HDMI cable) please post ASAP. Talking with Cox tech support has proven worthless.

Jimbo Moran

11-24-05, 11:28 AM

Xayd

11-25-05, 12:28 AM

And if component is better why not just plug in component cables and be done with it?

shugazer9

11-25-05, 01:58 AM

I noticed all kind of problems with mine using DVI and then HDMI. I am convinced it is the digital output causing the problems.

Bud-man

11-25-05, 01:09 PM

I noticed all kind of problems with mine using DVI and then HDMI. I am convinced it is the digital output causing the problems.

Glad to see you finally realized this.................. :P

omarh

11-26-05, 07:17 PM

Its hard to believe that the subscription bug is still around....how long has it been since it was first identified as a bug? Several months?

apaulct

11-26-05, 10:01 PM

Its hard to believe that the subscription bug is still around....how long has it been since it was first identified as a bug? Several months?

More than a year. It first appeared Nov 2004, the last time we had a firmware update in CT.

ajwees41

11-28-05, 02:44 PM

It looks like according to this website Omaha will get the Passport Echo update in Early 2006.

Go up to the top of the page. the info is on page 2 of 7.

Andrew Wees

http://www.cox.com/Omaha/Info/More_PDFs/ratenotification.pdf

Jimbo Moran

11-28-05, 05:24 PM

Its hard to believe that the subscription bug is still around....how long has it been since it was first identified as a bug? Several months?

You jinxed me! :D I had my first zero length recording in several months last night, I hope this is not a sign of more to come.

Vijay127

11-28-05, 05:28 PM

Cox in New England (RI and CT) just posted a "Set up skipped channels" link on their tech support page... I haven't seen an update yet...

apaulct

11-28-05, 06:48 PM

Cox in New England (RI and CT) just posted a "Set up skipped channels" link on their tech support page... I haven't seen an update yet...

I see that entry on their support page but it points to a broken link. Maybe we are getting close ... keeping everything crossed.

moyekj

11-28-05, 07:54 PM

I see that entry on their support page but it points to a broken link. Maybe we are getting close ... keeping everything crossed. These Cox web pages are like dinosaurs. I bet the "skipped channels" documentation (broken link as mentioned) is the same old old method for setting up skipped channels when using channel up/down buttons by choosing Settings->A (More Settings)-> Skipped Channels. It has no effect on what the guide shows.

Passport Echo 2.7 presumably has some guide channel filtering options which are more in line with what we want but not really. What most of us want is to hide specific channels from view permanently in the guide (and remember that information permanently) like ReplayTV or Tivo do it. Not unlike the 30-second skip this is something we probably will never get however as Cox doesn't want you to "forget" all the "wonderful" channels you are missing out on - it's like built-in advertising.

As I typed this a quick Google search for skip_channels.asp turned up a working Cox skip channels link which confirms it's the channel up/down skip channels capability that's not very useful:
http://www.cox.com/support/kansas/digitalcable/dvr/skip_channels.asp

Bud-man

11-29-05, 05:45 AM

I complained once to a service rep about how to skip channels like the older box and he said if you set up skipped channels you would miss out on the new channels if they appeared there, i still complained about it and he gave me free hbo for 3 months, which i'm still enjoying.
Is the skipped channel feature only in the newer firmware 2.7? surely not in my "good ole" 1.6!!

Bud-man

11-30-05, 06:20 AM

Shazam1242

11-30-05, 06:44 AM

I just happened to be up (3:30am), and it just clicked off and showed a DL on the panel. I hope this thing works....

moyekj

11-30-05, 08:33 AM

Well today is the big day, you guys get any updates yet?
YES!! Echo 2.5.0.37, TC 10.12 (for phase 2 box). FINALLY! :D

Bud-man

11-30-05, 09:01 AM

Awesome moyekj!!, now you can update your website with all the new goodies you got, no update here in New England... :(
They said maybe Jan '06

Walburga

11-30-05, 09:24 AM

YES!! Echo 2.5.0.37, TC 10.12 (for phase 2 box). FINALLY! :D

:( Not here in New England (Connecticut).. :(

I checked our box this morning, and still on 1.6 :confused:

moyekj

11-30-05, 09:50 AM

Awesome moyekj!!, now you can update your website with all the new goodies you got, no update here in New England... :(
They said maybe Jan '06 Actually it's mostly updated already quite extensively so perhaps you need to do a refresh if you're not seeing the updates.

I can confirm that most if not all the information I posted above about changes between versions above is correct. Obviously only time will tell on subscription bug being fixed. All the bugs associated with playback of still recording show are gone - that to me is huge. I can timeshift a sporting event now and know where the heck I am! Also, I can do 15 min skip ahead and not have it jump to the live point!

apaulct

11-30-05, 09:50 AM

Just got off the phone with CS ... New England is scheduled for an update Dec 7th. As they said, not cast in stone but that is the current plan.

Steve Wilcox

11-30-05, 11:39 AM

I can confirm that Echo 2.5.0.37 arrived on my Phase III box. Fast forward is SUPER fast now. Wow!

Firmware still at 12.18 for now...

Bud-man

11-30-05, 11:53 AM

Just got off the phone with CS ... New England is scheduled for an update Dec 7th. As they said, not cast in stone but that is the current plan.

YES!!!, moyekj does the skipped channels option appear now? like the website say's?

moyekj

11-30-05, 11:58 AM

YES!!!, moyekj does the skipped channels option appear now? like the website say's? Yes. But who in their right mind uses channel up/down with a DVR? So to me it's not really a feature at all. The only effect on the guide listings is it puts a little check mark indicating the channel is in the skip list.

Bud-man

11-30-05, 12:19 PM

Yes. But who in their right mind uses channel up/down with a DVR? So to me it's not really a feature at all. The only effect on the guide listings is it puts a little check mark indicating the channel is in the skip list.
I dont understand by what you mean "channel up/down"?
I'd love to skip useless PPV channels basically any channel i dont have after HBO 210-700 where the HD starts.

Steve Wilcox

11-30-05, 01:05 PM

I dont understand by what you mean "channel up/down"?
I'd love to skip useless PPV channels basically any channel i dont have after HBO 210-700 where the HD starts.If you use the Channel Up/Down "rocker button" on the remote to surf sequentially through channels, the "skipped channels" are, well, skipped. If you look at the on-screen guide, the skipped channels still appear. If we didn't have the on-screen guide, this might be OK, but our family uses the on-screen guide to see what's on, then jumps straight to a desirable program/channel. We haven't surfed sequentially through channels for years, even before the DVR...

collven

11-30-05, 04:56 PM

moyekj

11-30-05, 05:14 PM

I actually still use the channel buttons quite a bit. There are lots of times when I can't really find anything to watch and see something interesting by surfing through the channels that I never would have even looked at just looking at the guide. I rarely if ever watch anything live - mostly pre-recorded programs since I couldn't tolerate sitting through commercials. Even sporting events I may be close to live but time-shifted enough to zip through commercials for the whole event. That's why this 2.5.x release we finally got in OC is a real blessing since it contains all the timeshifting related bug fixes.

ajwees41

11-30-05, 11:40 PM

Subscription bug

I saw the subscription bug in Omaha Nebraska again on the VH1 Country digital channel.

Also cox in Omaha is upgrading the OnDemand software tonight and tomorrow night.

Andrew Wees

moyekj

12-01-05, 12:02 AM

Subscription bug

I saw the subscription bug in Omaha Nebraska again on the VH1 Country digital channel.

Also cox in Omaha is upgrading the OnDemand software tonight and tomorrow night.

Andrew Wees Are you sure it's really the subscription bug? There are other causes for 0-length recordings. For subscription bug following a failed recording if you tune to the channel that didn't record you should see the subscription bug banner for a couple of seconds. If you don't see that then it's likely some other bug.

ajwees41

12-01-05, 12:28 AM

I wasn't recording the channel. I just tuned to it to watch and the subscription thing came up.

Andrew Wees

Are you sure it's really the subscription bug? There are other causes for 0-length recordings. For subscription bug following a failed recording if you tune to the channel that didn't record you should see the subscription bug banner for a couple of seconds. If you don't see that then it's likely some other bug.

marc1023

12-01-05, 12:04 PM

FYI all, my newly "upgraded" 6412 locked up last night while playing a recorded program

moyekj

12-01-05, 12:43 PM

FYI all, my newly "upgraded" 6412 locked up last night while playing a recorded program If it was around the 10th minute of "Lost" then it's not the DCT6412 to blame - there was a glitch in the transmission. I have an OTA recording and will verify if the glitch was also in the OTA feed (which Cox is re-transmitting) which I suspect is the case.

gb61

12-01-05, 03:43 PM

If it was around the 10th minute of "Lost" then it's not the DCT6412 to blame - there was a glitch in the transmission.

I had the LOST glitch and it stopped playing, but what I noticed is that the new software dealt with the problem better than the old version did. All I had to do was tap FF to skip past it. With the old version, the DVR would often lock up and the controls would stop responding when it encountered a glitch like this. While I would like to see the DVR simply keep on playing through the glitch, at least it doesn't lock up anymore.

AMRivlin

12-01-05, 04:13 PM

moyekj

12-01-05, 04:48 PM

Well my lost recording played back just fine, no glitches.

However I had an interesting situation regarding a recording of Rudolphs Christmas Special on CBS HD (702). It recorded 3 seperate parts of the show, 8:01-8:17 Stop 8:25-8:40 Stop 8:45-8:59, at first I thought it just removed the commercials, but the timing was off and i got bits and parts of the show and commercials... I guess this was a guide programming error, cant see how the new box would cause this. The Lost glitch was for Southern California markets only probably.

Sounds like to me the box rebooted itself twice while recording perhaps because of excessive heat. I've seen when the box reboots in the middle of a recording after it comes back up it resumes the recording again and saves it to a different file name. You can check when the box was last rebooted from the Info Page (Menu-down-B-up-B). If last reboot time was around 8:40 on the day of that recording then that explains your problem above (it also could be you have had more reboots since then indicating you have a heat or bad disk problem with the box).

pagercam

12-01-05, 06:33 PM

We got the 2.5 upgrade which seems to work fine but I noticed that 5/6 of our series recording, well didn't record. It seems that for series that are only specified by show name i.e. CSI which is on once a week those continued to work but for shows that are repeated (or multiple shows per day) like Sesame Street that I only want one episode per day (I swear that my 2 yr old says ELMO, at least 1,000 times a day) and I had specified a specific time (7am-8am) when looking at the series recording screen it says that recording is programmed for 7-8am but if I edit the recording the time specified is 3pm (I don't remember the exact time). But any show that had a specified time (to avoid repeats) the time was now incorrect, although it still appeared correct on the main screen. So I had to re-request recording on all those shows. Other than that the new SW seems to be good.

teague

12-01-05, 08:41 PM

Do we have any idea yet when Cox will support external HD's? Is it still Q1/Q2 2006? I got the 2.5 upgrade yesterday, and so far so good on my Phase III box.

Chris

AMRivlin

12-01-05, 11:00 PM

The Lost glitch was for Southern California markets only probably.

I have the cox bundle in Irvine, so yea i evaded the lost glitch in So Cal.

moyekj

12-02-05, 12:02 AM

I have the cox bundle in Irvine, so yea i evaded the lost glitch in So Cal.
I confirmed tonight that the OTA feed from KABC-DT in Los Angeles had the glitch so everyone in So. Cal (including Cox Orange County) had the problem. For me FF through it on the DCT6412 worked. On my OTA recording there was a picture freeze followed by a blackout for a few seconds and then returned to normal.

It caused me some grief making a DVD out of the HD recording and I ended up cutting out those few seconds of the glitch and then everything after was OK and in sync.

noworries

12-02-05, 11:04 AM

After recording LOST I went to watch South Park and my box froze up. I pulled the plug to reset it and it came up saying DL. I called Cox and they told me about the software update. Not very convenient on the timing, I guess my box didn't update in the middle of the night like it was supposed to.

Box has been working better, except for Lost which I'm guessing was not a problem of the box by what I've read here.

I did have a problem losing my HD channels last night, so I reset the box again. This morning the box showed the wrong time by 2 hours and a few minutes, so I reset it again. It's behaving for the moment.

Sure would be nice if the subscription bug is behind us. It seems that was a problem for more like a year then a few months. I just wish they'd fix the overheating issue--it's pretty ridiculous. I can't believe they didn't test these units in a real life environment before producing them. It's like they had them on a table in a server room kept at 65F or something.

pkpcman

12-02-05, 05:04 PM

Do we have any idea yet when Cox will support external HD's? Is it still Q1/Q2 2006? I got the 2.5 upgrade yesterday, and so far so good on my Phase III box.

Chris

Is this in the works?

What would the external hard drive connect to?

Is this even possible with the 6412?

Is it in practice anywhere?

moyekj

12-02-05, 05:22 PM

pkpcman
Is this in the works?
Doubt it has much priority at Cox even if it is in the works which I have not heard any indication for a long time since VideooooGuy dissapeared from the forum.
What would the external hard drive connect to?
SATA port
Is this even possible with the 6412?
According to Motorola yes if the cable operator chooses to enable it.
Is it in practice anywhere?
Scientific Atlanta 8300 boxes in some cable markets have had external SATA drive up and running for a while. Don't know of any such implementation for DCTxxxx boxes.

Shazam1242

12-03-05, 05:15 AM

Just watched Lost....it was fine. It just skipped a few seconds at the 10 minute mark. My wife did not notice it at all....no lock-ups. My unit(III) had a real problem with re-boots for no reason, and it could not record Invasion after Lost(0-minute)....both problems are gone so far. Two things that I like so far....

When you start recording a game late, and watch it later, the time bar is now correct. The green bar starts where you start recording, rather than showing empty space at the end of the time frame.

You can now pause or record the music and radio stations. Nice for those who want to hear Stern/Tom without sitting through the commercials.

moyekj

12-03-05, 12:02 PM

When you start recording a game late, and watch it later, the time bar is now correct. The green bar starts where you start recording, rather than showing empty space at the end of the time frame.
Yes this is part of the timeshifting bug fixes I posted about in the fix list which I think many people overlooked as a major improvement in this 2.5.x release. Finally get to watch NFL games properly in timeshift mode. You can now always see where you are in the program and can 15-min skip ahead properly without having it jump to the live point and when you reach the end stop behaves like stop instead of pause and when you delete the show the disk space is freed up. All these are fixes to timeshift mode compared to 1.6

Shazam1242

12-04-05, 12:49 PM

Yeah, nice also that you can record a game, watch the beginning, switch tuners....and when you return to the game from the list it will remember when you switched away. Very nice.

apaulct

12-04-05, 06:25 PM

Can't wait for the upgrade here in frozen New England. Last I heard, still scheduled for Wed night / Thu morning. :rolleyes:

schmitter

12-05-05, 08:24 AM

Is this in the works?
Doubt it has much priority at Cox even if it is in the works which I have not heard any indication for a long time since VideooooGuy dissapeared from the forum.
What would the external hard drive connect to?
SATA port
Is this even possible with the 6412?
According to Motorola yes if the cable operator chooses to enable it.
Is it in practice anywhere?
Scientific Atlanta 8300 boxes in some cable markets have had external SATA drive up and running for a while. Don't know of any such implementation for DCTxxxx boxes.

If you scroll to the bottom, the FAQs are interesting. This is for the SA, not the Motorola, but my bet is the implimentation would be the same. Not the kind of flexibility I was hoping for, but more space would be usefull.

http://www.weaknees.com/maxtor_qvx.php

gb61

12-05-05, 02:20 PM

If you scroll to the bottom, the FAQs are interesting. This is for the SA, not the Motorola, but my bet is the implimentation would be the same. Not the kind of flexibility I was hoping for, but more space would be usefull.

http://www.weaknees.com/maxtor_qvx.php

That is ridiculous. Why would I want to pay for a sealed hard drive that can only be used with a DVR that I don't own? They better have an option to rent these for a nominal fee (no more than $1-$2 per month).

moyekj

12-05-05, 02:36 PM

That is ridiculous. Why would I want to pay for a sealed hard drive that can only be used with a DVR that I don't own? They better have an option to rent these for a nominal fee (no more than $1-$2 per month). You don't have to buy a boxed item from a specific vendor - you can roll your own by buying your own HDD and cable and enclosure and use it with your PC if you wish just like any other external HDD as long as your PC has a SATA port. Of course moving it between the DVR and PC would mean wiping out and reformatting the drive each time so wouldn't be useful as all purpose HDD. But at least if you no longer want the DVR you can still use it for something useful.

gb61

12-05-05, 08:13 PM

You don't have to buy a boxed item from a specific vendor - you can roll your own by buying your own HDD and cable and enclosure and use it with your PC if you wish just like any other external HDD as long as your PC has a SATA port. Of course moving it between the DVR and PC would mean wiping out and reformatting the drive each time so wouldn't be useful as all purpose HDD. But at least if you no longer want the DVR you can still use it for something useful.

I hope you are right about that, but my experience with content providers is that they are more concerned about securing their content than with providing options for their customers.

moyekj

12-05-05, 08:19 PM

I hope you are right about that, but my experience with content providers is that they are more concerned about securing their content than with providing options for their customers. Read all about it here for the SA 8300:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559

The first poster of that now-massive thread used his own HDD+enclosure+cable.

jagouar

12-06-05, 06:53 PM

Is there any timetable on that Passport Echo 2.7

Some of the new features look very slick. And a graphic update to the box will be very nice to have. Thats one thing that always was a "knock" on the box was its gui. I really like the look of that "video mosaic" pdf file and would hope they extend that look to the whole guide/os.

Are there anymore screenshots of the 2.7 guide/os?

ajwees41

12-06-05, 07:06 PM

I would like to see the guide on the 6412 be updated to the two tone blue one this is one the non dvr Motorola 2000,2500, and HD boxes.

Andrew Wees

Is there any timetable on that Passport Echo 2.7

Some of the new features look very slick. And a graphic update to the box will be very nice to have. Thats one thing that always was a "knock" on the box was its gui. I really like the look of that "video mosaic" pdf file and would hope they extend that look to the whole guide/os.

Are there anymore screenshots of the 2.7 guide/os?

moyekj

12-06-05, 07:08 PM

In my updated web page I have a section on Passport Echo 2.7. Towards the bottom of that section are 2 links to brochures about the 2 main new features that contain some pictures:
http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/dct6412/DCT6412_Passport.html#Passport_Echo_2.7_New_Feature_Summary

jagouar

12-06-05, 08:23 PM

i saw the 2 brochures.... but they dont really show the guide (just the new pages). I would love to see that look applied to the whole box (which is what I was asking)

ajwees41

12-06-05, 11:24 PM

Looks like they have changed the brochure for Isubscribe since I first saw it on APtiv's website, so maybe they are working on updating the website with 2.7 info. I hope they change the color of the onscreen guide also.

Andrew Wees

i saw the 2 brochures.... but they dont really show the guide (just the new pages). I would love to see that look applied to the whole box (which is what I was asking)

Bud-man

12-07-05, 04:12 AM

2.7 'eh? i'm still on 1.6 with a update soon thru "Cocks" N.E. to 2.5?, it will be another year at least when your all 3.6 when i get to 2.7

schmitter

12-07-05, 08:36 AM

Upgrade to 2.5 postponed till 12/8/2005 in CT.

apaulct

12-07-05, 08:48 AM

Upgrade to 2.5 postponed till 12/8/2005 in CT.
schmitter, is that the early morning of 12/8? If so, that agrees with what my Cox Tech told me Saturday ... the update should happen early Thursday morning.

Bud-man

12-07-05, 11:01 AM

Was watching HBO On Demand this morning and at exactly 6am the DVR just stopped and rebooted itself, thought....here it is the big update....skunked again!!
Ive read somewere here about the reboot problem but never experianced it before.
finger's crossed for Tommorow Morning!!

Bud-man

12-08-05, 05:40 AM

Well the "BIG" update came at 4am, as we all know now have 2.5 and let the drumroll please...............2.18.......whoopee do da!!!!
2.18 has been out for how long?....year?........2?, this really sucks that the BONEHEADS at Cox N.E. dont have a clue, Dont read the internet, Just use other cable co's firmware thats been out for ages.....
I'm going in there main office today and going to get to the bottom of this and let them know 12.18 is WORTHLESS, and 2.5 passport ONLY diffrence is they added skipped chanels which ive been waiting for since i got a 6000 series.
When i get done i'll walk out with free hbo for a yr and another free dvr for the bedroom!

ajwees41

12-08-05, 09:05 AM

The 2.5 is the Passport Echo software version the newest is 2.7 no one has that version yet.. The 10. or 12. whatever is the firmware version.

Andrew Wees

Well the "BIG" update came at 4am, as we all know now have 2.5 and let the drumroll please...............2.18.......whoopee do da!!!!
2.18 has been out for how long?....year?........2?, this really sucks that the BONEHEADS at Cox N.E. dont have a clue, Dont read the internet, Just use other cable co's firmware thats been out for ages.....
I'm going in there main office today and going to get to the bottom of this and let them know 12.18 is WORTHLESS, and 2.5 passport ONLY diffrence is they added skipped chanels which ive been waiting for since i got a 6000 series.
When i get done i'll walk out with free hbo for a yr and another free dvr for the bedroom!

Bud-man

12-08-05, 09:50 AM

I was more concerned about the firmware update Andrew..... to fix the dreaded DD 5:1 HDMI bug.
But ohh well, i have for now a upconvert dvd player using that input anyway, what i'll actually need is a HDMI switch in the future....

ajwees41

12-08-05, 10:34 AM

I know Bud-man, but I wanted to make sure to as what you were talking abnout incase someone who is new to th 6412 with the Passport Echo software didn't think that the firmware versions were going backwards you forgot to ad a 1 to the front of 2.12 to make it 12.12 and 12.15.

Andrew Wees

I was more concerned about the firmware update Andrew..... to fix the dreaded DD 5:1 HDMI bug.
But ohh well, i have for now a upconvert dvd player using that input anyway, what i'll actually need is a HDMI switch in the future....

schmitter

12-08-05, 10:38 AM

moyekj

12-08-05, 10:50 AM

Make no mistake about it, 2.5 is a HUGE improvement over 1.6 and I for one am extremely happy we finally got it last week. I posted the differences a few posts ago and the first 3 are vital fixes never mind the few cosmetic changes.

apaulct

12-08-05, 11:56 AM

I, for one, will be very happy if Passport 2.5.037 and firmware 12.18 eliminates the subscription bug ... which it is reported to do. Even with the workarounds, I was still missing 50 to 75% of my scheduled recordings. If this allows me to get 95+% success, I am satisfied for now. :) It only took 13 months to get to this point.

ajwees41

12-08-05, 01:50 PM

Passport echo and the firmware are to seperate things, so you could Passport Echo version 2.5 with a new firmware or an older firmware. It would be interesting to see itf firmware 12.18 can run on Phase 1 and phase 2 6412. The highest firmware I have seen is 10.12.

Andrew Wees

I, for one, will be very happy if Passport 2.5.037 and firmware 12.18 eliminates the subscription bug ... which it is reported to do. Even with the workarounds, I was still missing 50 to 75% of my scheduled recordings. If this allows me to get 95+% success, I am satisfied for now. :) It only took 13 months to get to this point.

moyekj

12-08-05, 02:04 PM

It would be interesting to see itf firmware 12.18 can run on Phase 1 and phase 2 6412. Sincerely doubt it since there are different drivers needed for P3 vs P2 hardware: for example HDMI vs DVI, USB2.x vs USB1.x not to mention SATA and different analog encoding scheme etc.

schmitter

12-08-05, 02:14 PM

moyekj

12-08-05, 02:18 PM

Ok, I used to be able to easily replicate the subscription bug by going into the diagnostic menu, then trying one of the local HD channels. This would ALWAYS cause the "You must subscribe..." message to appear. Now that I have 2.5 this is not happening. I would think that this is a good thing, right? Yes, there is definately a big improvement. Also note that if you do happen to see a Subscription Needed message when tuning to a channel that does not necessarily mean you will get 0-minute recordings anymore which I think is a big part of the fix. While tuning and if you get a false subscription message if you wait a couple of seconds it clears up, and I believe 2.5 now tries to wait a couple of seconds before giving up on the recording versus in 1.6 it used to give up almost right away. So definately the subscription bug causing 0-minute recordings is vastly improved though probably not totally eliminated.

Futhermore the DVR log may provide more insight into what went wrong in case there is a problem: (Menu, Down, B, Up, B, B) Only catch for checking DVR log is it is reset every 24 hours so you need to check it same day of failed recording(s).

pkpcman

12-08-05, 07:37 PM

Hi Gang,

Hope this is not too far off topic, but figured if this could be done, you guys would know how.....

I have A DCT6412 (newly upgraded today in CT).

I just set up my Firewire capture as per

http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/dct6412/index.html

THANKS TO moyekj FOR MAKING IT SO EASY !!!!!!!!!!!!!

My captures look great - but here is my problem:

I cant capture my HBO. My fears are that his statement indicates that it can not be done:

"NOTE: You will only be able to capture channels/recordings without 5C protection enabled. To check for 5C protection on channels that you are interested in capturing from (or have recorded from), do the following:"....

Is there any software out there that will allow me to view the Firewire capture from HBO?

I am very impressed with the quality of the firewire capture from the DCT6410 - it is FAR better than piping it into my Hauppauge cards....

Thanks in advance for any help!

moyekj

12-08-05, 08:13 PM

Is there any software out there that will allow me to view the Firewire capture from HBO?

I am very impressed with the quality of the firewire capture from the DCT6410 - it is FAR better than piping it into my Hauppauge cards.... Only way to capture a stream with 5C enabled is with a 5C compliant device such as a DVHS recorder. A firewire capture is capturing the original headend transport stream (all digital) whereas for a capture card you are going through D->A->re-encoded D process which hurts picture quality a lot.

A potential workaround to this problem exists if the HBO shows you want to record are available via EOD. All EOD programs are unencrypted so you can playback the HBO show via EOD and then capture it via firewire capture.

pkpcman

12-08-05, 08:40 PM

Only way to capture a stream with 5C enabled is with a 5C compliant device such as a DVHS recorder. A firewire capture is capturing the original headend transport stream (all digital) whereas for a capture card you are going through D->A->re-encoded D process which hurts picture quality a lot.

A potential workaround to this problem exists if the HBO shows you want to record are available via EOD. All EOD programs are unencrypted so you can playback the HBO show via EOD and then capture it via firewire capture.

I was afraid of your first answer...

As for the work around - I would be thrilled if that worked, but alas, I tried an HBO on demand show, and got the same results when playing back the file in Media Player Clasic: "Can not render file".

Does it work for you if you capture HBO OnDemand?

moyekj

12-08-05, 09:02 PM

I was afraid of your first answer...

As for the work around - I would be thrilled if that worked, but alas, I tried an HBO on demand show, and got the same results when playing back the file in Media Player Clasic: "Can not render file".

Does it work for you if you capture HBO OnDemand? Haven't tried a firewire capture of HBO EOD, however just yesterday I recorded a segement of an HBO EOD program that my neighbor ordered with my new QAM-capable Fusion5 HDTV USB2 tuner. The QAM tuner only can see unencrypted channels so obviously the HBO EOD program is not encrypted which is why I would assume firewire capture from DCT6412 should also work (unencrypted supposedly would mean no 5C protection).

I don't subscribe to HBO so do not have access to HBO EOD to try firewire capture with, however I have been able to capture Freezone EOD channels as well as a movie I ordered once.

schmitter

12-09-05, 09:24 AM

Actually encryption and 5c flags are indepent of one another. I experienced a similar problem trying to record a PBS program that had a 5c flag on it in error, but was still unencrypted and it wouldn't record.

moyekj

12-09-05, 01:03 PM

So I presume that using an unencrypted QAM tuner ignores 5C flags then since I am able to record HBO EOD without problems with the Fusion5 HDTV USB2 Card.

pkpcman

12-09-05, 01:54 PM

moyekj

12-09-05, 02:14 PM

Moyekj,

How are you attaching your Fusion unit to the 6412?

Is this the unit you have?

http://www.pcalchemy.com/product_info.php/pName/dvico-fusionhdtv5-usb-gold-usb-hdtv-tuner-atsc-qam/cName/hdtv-tuner-cards?osCsid=b0ff134bc1ccb7ef740eb8951976ac62
Yup, that's the one. Couldn't pass it up for $150 (and free shipping) and considering you can use it with a laptop and can tune either OTA or unencrypted QAM. Makes archiving HDTV a whole lot easier than firewire captures from the DCT6412.

You don't attach it to the DCT6412 at all - it attaches to your PC/laptop via USB2 connection and then you attach a coax cable from your cable drop to it. Following a scan the unit shows you all unencrypted and encrypted channels available (around 272 in my last scan). All the network HDTV channels are unencrypted so it's able to tune and record those. In addition, all EOD orders in your neighborhood are unencrypted so you can view/record what your neighbors are watching or start your own EOD show and then find the EOD channel it's using with the Fusion and record it. As a bonus you can also switch to OTA mode for recording HDTV channels that Cox doesn't carry and that you can receive in your area.

In my case I have found consistently that when I start EOD on my DCT6412 it uses RF channel 105, so I start the EOD show then tune to RF channel 105 with the Fusion card at which point I can record it. There are also several other EOD channels available at different times of the day depending on who is watching EOD programs in my neighborhood.

pkpcman

12-09-05, 02:25 PM

moyekj

12-09-05, 02:59 PM

That sounds fantastic! You are right, the price is right, I will give it a whirl...

Would there be any advantage in me getting this instead?

http://www.pcalchemy.com/product_info.php/pName/dvico-fusionhdtv5-gold-plus-hdtv-tuner-card-atsc-qam/cName/hdtv-tuner-cards?osCsid=bdf96e99fa6cc9b0ebbf8593c489621f
That's the PCI card. I prefer the USB2 card since it's more portable, can be used with laptops and less chance of IRQ conflicts with other PCI devices you may have. I would suggest you do some reading before buying however since the Fusion software is shaky. Over the last month or so there have been some huge improvements but there is still a long way to go to make this a good stable HTPC card. Suggest you read the following AVS thread towards the last few pages to get an idea of all the issues and what's in store for you if you make the jump:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=588032
If you don't like tinkering I would advise against it.

pkpcman

12-09-05, 03:13 PM

Unfortunatly, as my wife would tell you, "Tinkering" is my life :cool:

My intent would be to run it on my MCE2005 box as a second tuner (existing hauppauge as the first)

I would use the MCE software for normal recording, and would only use the fusion software only for the EOD events...

Keeping that in mind, you think it would be a good solution for what i want to do? Are there any issues with the throughput of the USB? I would think that an internal card could transfer data much faster, not being bound by the USB speeds,,,

I am reading the thread now...

moyekj

12-09-05, 04:31 PM

Keeping that in mind, you think it would be a good solution for what i want to do? Are there any issues with the throughput of the USB? I would think that an internal card could transfer data much faster, not being bound by the USB speeds,,,
Haven't had any issues with displaying or recording 1080i and/or 720p - max data rate you can possibly have is 38Mbps anyway which USB2 is plenty fast enough for. Setting up manual records using Fusion software is the only reliable way right now to setup recordings, so if you would use it primarily for EOD recordings that should be sufficient. They do have MCE support as well as TitanTV support but I don't think either one of those is working very well right now with this card in QAM mode - OTA mode works OK. I think we have strayed way OT for this thread though....

pkpcman

12-09-05, 04:48 PM

Yup you are right Moyekj i definately strayed, and this will be my last post on the topic. My appologies to all who found this inappropriate...

moyekj - Thanks again for your help. After reading the last 3 pages of the thread and a review, I have decided against it for the time being.

The software seems aboslutely horrible.

My original thought was that this would bring the upper digital channels to my MCE PC, but as you pointed out and per this article that is not going to happen.

The straw that broke the camels back was in this review:

http://www.anandtech.com/multimedia/showdoc.aspx?i=2634&p=1

"The Fusion5 card is Windows MCE compliant, but only the analog and OTA DTV reception work with the Windows MCE interface. Given the issues with the FusionHDTV software, MCE seems like a great idea. The loss of QAM channels in MCE would be a problem, but you can still run the FusionHDTV software on MCE for occasions where QAM decoding is desired. Of course, you cannot run both the MCE application and FusionHDTV concurrently, as only one application has access to overlay mode at a time. If a large portion of your TV viewing is still analog channels, though, this card provides an interesting alternative to buying both an OTA HDTV tuner and a separate analog card. Or you could get a better quality analog card and simply use this card as a standard HDTV receiver, with or without the QAM support.
" :rolleyes:

marc1023

12-14-05, 02:28 PM

I got a zero length recording of West Wing Sunday night. Is this the return of the subscription bug that was fixed in the new software update?

kmanson

12-14-05, 02:41 PM

I got a zero length recording of West Wing Sunday night. Is this the return of the subscription bug that was fixed in the new software update?

We have had 2 subscription bug problems since the upgrade to 2.5 - so the bug still exists, but at least it's not an everyday thing like it used to be!

Ink Noise

12-18-05, 05:03 AM

I think the understanding is that this upgrade greatly reduced the subscrition service error. Personally, I've had no zero-lenght recordings since the update; but have, however, received the "subscription service" screen on a few HD networks since then. But no big and I'm pretty darn satisfied.

On a dffierent note; has anyone noticed that the number of "TEST" channels has almost tripled? Here's hoping for digital simulcast and a few more channels (hopefully Universal and Starz HD).

EDIT: Nevermind, they've actually just been spread out :(

gahans

12-18-05, 01:19 PM

Has anyone else noticed that you can record and (more importantly) rewind the Cox music channels now?
I'm 99.9% certain I couldn't do this on my box before version 2.5 - I would try rewinding a favorite song and it wouldn't work.

pkpcman

12-20-05, 05:32 PM

dwcliff703

12-20-05, 05:38 PM

Phototone

12-20-05, 05:59 PM

I thought it might be interesting to see what HighDef offerings you have in your local Cox market. I live in the Tulsa, Ok market and we have the following:
CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox, HBO, Showtime, Starz, Discover, ESPN, InHD1, InHD2, and Universal. I would sure love to see some additional stations in the near future, especially ESPN2. What HighDef channels do you get in your market?

I'm in Van Buren, Arkansas, about 100 miles away from Tulsa, and also Cox, and we get the same lineup except no FOX or NBC, but we have a PBS afiliate in HD.

So our line up is, CBS, ABC, PBS, HBO, Showtime, Starz, ESPN, InHD, InHD2, Universal HD. Note: The PBS afiliate runs very very few shows in HD.

Phototone

12-20-05, 06:01 PM

I would love to get TNT-HD. Does anyone get it?

Crescent

12-20-05, 06:02 PM

Hartford CT - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=592183

ajwees41

12-20-05, 06:58 PM

cox in Omaha NE get TNTHD.

Andrew Wees

I would love to get TNT-HD. Does anyone get it?

apaulct

12-21-05, 08:29 AM

Cox Connecticut we get CBS, NBC, FOX, PBS, Discovery, ESPN, TNT, INHD1, INHD2, HBO, and Showtime. We also get Red Sox and Bruins games :) on NESN-HD shared channel with INHD2. I would love ABC so I can record it (even though we get it OTA) and ESPN2.

Whitearrow

12-21-05, 02:15 PM

Here in Orange County, CA we get TNT (which is recent) but we do not get Universal (which I'd really really like... HD Battlestar Galactica...)

gb61

12-21-05, 04:19 PM

Since receiving the Passport 2.5 update, I have not experienced any zero-length recordings caused by the subscription bug. However, I now have an entirely new type of failed recording.

Here is the scenario: I come home and turn on the TV, expecting to see whatever program the active tuner is tuned to currently playing. Instead, I see a black screen with no sound. Any recordings that were made on that channel are unplayable (they all freeze right at the beginning). If I tune away from that channel and then back again, the channel plays normally.

To me, these failed recordings are worse than the old zero-length recordings, because they take up space on the DVR.

I have experienced this problem 3 times now. Has anyone else seen this, or is it just my 6412?

Joe3

12-22-05, 09:34 AM

sucha deal!

12-26-05, 05:53 AM

Anybody hear anything about the 12.22 firmware release in OC?

P.S. Hi again - haven't posted in a while!

ajwees41

12-31-05, 04:27 AM

Anyone hear when Picture in Picture will work with the 6412?

Andrew Wees

caeguy

12-31-05, 10:52 AM

Does the 6412 have an option to change video settings like gamma, hue, brightness, black levels? One on the main reasons I keep using my internal TV tuner is the quality of SD is that much better. There's more noise, less saturated colors, and horrible black levels coming out of my 6412.

walford

12-31-05, 12:11 PM

Anyone hear when Picture in Picture will work with the 6412?

Andrew Wees
Do you have the link to where you read that the 6412 firmware/software was going to be updated to support PIP within the 6412 box I would like to read as I have never read that this was in the plans for either the 6412 II or 6412 III. I had the capability with my old Ultimate TV dual tuner D* box and very much liked it.

ajwees41

12-31-05, 12:34 PM

I have no info. I was asking if anyone heard anything because Scientific Atlanta DVR's already handle PIP, but not Motorola's. The Phase III 6412 is supposed to support PIP through hardware. I guess we are just waiting on the software to support it then.

Andrew Wees

Do you have the link to where you read that the 6412 firmware/software was going to be updated to support PIP within the 6412 box I would like to read as I have never read that this was in the plans for either the 6412 II or 6412 III. I had the capability with my old Ultimate TV dual tuner D* box and very much liked it.

walford

12-31-05, 03:46 PM

I had not even read anywhere that the Phase III 6412s are supposed to be able to hand PIP through hardware which is why I made my previous post.

Jimbo Moran

12-31-05, 09:33 PM

I had not even read anywhere that the Phase III 6412s are supposed to be able to hand PIP through hardware which is why I made my previous post.

Nor have I. If so I would enjoy that feature very much, especially right now while traying to watch both a football game and the HD version of Battlestar Gallactica, ;)

ajwees41

12-31-05, 10:15 PM

On http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/dct6412/DCT6412_Passport.html

Andrew Wees

DCT6412 Phase 3 Box Information (hardware differences from earlier boxes) (Back to Table of Contents)
SATA port (not currently active in software)

USB 2.0 (older boxes had 1.x. Not currently active in software but power is active - 5V)
HDMI output (older boxes had DVI output). There have been some reports that with current firmware (12.15) using HDMI output causes box to reboot and miss recordings. Cox official response to these problems is use Component output instead since that's all they officially support. There are also reports that sound output reverts back to PCM from Dolby Digital when changing channels. These problems will be fixed soon with firmware update 12.22.

Fan on the bottom for improved cooling
Improved mpeg2 encoding of analog channels
PIP capability (not currently active in software)

Nor have I. If so I would enjoy that feature very much, especially right now while traying to watch both a football game and the HD version of Battlestar Gallactica, ;)

omarh

01-01-06, 11:53 PM

I had one of the first 6412's until the hard drive crapped out on it a few weeks ago. So I took it into the local cox store and swapped it for a 6412 III (phase 3). I also added a 2nd box to my account, so now I got two 6412 III's.
I hate both of them. First, I noticed TNT HD has lots of pixellation, sometimes rainbows...then I noticed it taped Alias with terrible pixellation and rainbows. Then I noticed it reboots spontaneously at random times...I'll be doing a keyword search for new shows and it reboots!!?? Both do this at random times...if it was just one, I'd think it was a defective unit...but both?? how is that possible? it seems like the firmware on these phase 3 boxes is full of bugs.

arehm

01-02-06, 12:55 AM

I've gone through 3 phase 2's all with bad hard drives. Now #4 is crapping out.....sigh

walford

01-02-06, 10:14 AM

arehm,
Since the disk drive is never turned off when the 6412 is turned "off" a large amount of heat is generated by the disk drive. The fan was added with the PIIIs to help reduce the number of disk drive failures due to inadequate ventilation under and around the 6412 unit and/or caused by units that were enclosed in glass cabinets.

Tiresius

01-04-06, 02:40 PM

Nor have I. If so I would enjoy that feature very much, especially right now while traying to watch both a football game and the HD version of Battlestar Gallactica, ;)

Jimbo,

I have to ask -how/where are you able to watch BsG in HD?
I didn't know that was available anywhere & I'd love to see it in HD.

Cheers,
Ray

casino187

01-04-06, 03:57 PM

gb61

01-04-06, 04:10 PM

I have to ask -how/where are you able to watch BsG in HD?
I didn't know that was available anywhere & I'd love to see it in HD.

It's on Universal HD. Unfortunately, we don't get that channel in Orange County.

walford

01-04-06, 05:09 PM

For the people who use their 6412 to stretch the 4:3 pic to fill the widescreen.

I use the Moto STB to stretch my 480i signal to fill my 16:9 TV. What do you do for 480i letterbox programs? For example, Las Vegas on NBC (non HD) is letterboxed. So when I play it back, it is a stretched image with black on the top and bottom.

Has anyone experienced this? Do you just live with it? Or do you stretch the pic up somehow to fill the screen?

Hope this makes sense.
I send all my SD 4:3 aspect ration programs out from my Motorola STB in 480p and then I can stretch them in my Samsung HDTV since it allows different picture settings for each resoluiton in receives over DVI.

ScottChez

01-04-06, 08:30 PM

Hi, I have been gone since April on this thread, looking to go back to cable now that Dish tool Lifetime and Lifetime movie off (wife is mad) also looks like my ABC may go off of dish due to an other contract issue.

QUESTION:

Do any of the COX systems do FULL HD or just the HD Lite like Direct TV does (some on Dish were saying the Voom channels are the more full HD).

See below

QUESTION 2

I live in Omaha, what HD DVR model should I try to get, is the newer phase III avl in all areas, should I request a certain model?

True 1080i 1920x1080i: 1920x540x60 = 62,208,000 pixels/sec
720p 1280x720p: 1280x720x60 = 55,296,000 pixels/sec
HD-Lite 1280x1080i: 1280x540x60 = 41,472,000 pixels/sec
DVD 720x480i: 720x240x60 = 10,368,000 pixels/sec

True 1080i: 6X DVD quality
720p: 5.33X DVD quality
HD-Lite: 4X DVD quality

mat123

01-04-06, 09:37 PM

It's on Universal HD. Unfortunately, we don't get that channel in Orange County.

Yeah, but you get ALL your local channels in HD don't ya? In Hampton Roads we get Universal HD, but not FOX, NBC, ABC, UPN, or WB...

gb61

01-04-06, 11:34 PM

Yeah, but you get ALL your local channels in HD don't ya? In Hampton Roads we get Universal HD, but not FOX, NBC, ABC, UPN, or WB...

We get everything except UPN.

Whitearrow

01-05-06, 01:25 PM

And it doesn't much matter, since UPN in LA does not broadcast anything in HD anyway. Some complicated explanation about the channel being owned by News Corp... whatever. But it still pisses me off everytime I see the "In HD!" banner on Veronica Mars.

moyekj

01-05-06, 03:42 PM

gb61

01-05-06, 03:44 PM

ATI announced their HD digital cable tuner card called the OCUR (Open Cable Unidirectional Receiver) at CES today. This might be a good choice for those of us who are fed up with the 6412 and tired of waiting for a CableCard HD Tivo. Because it's ATI, the software should be much better than on the Fusion HDTV card.

http://ir.ati.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=105421&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=800664&highlight=

Jimbo Moran

01-05-06, 04:15 PM

Jimbo,

I have to ask -how/where are you able to watch BsG in HD?
I didn't know that was available anywhere & I'd love to see it in HD.

Cheers,
Ray

I think someone else answered this already but yes, on UHD. They are now replaying all the episodes in order.

Jimbo Moran

01-05-06, 05:27 PM

ajwees41

01-05-06, 09:05 PM

It's full HD I think.

I don't think you can request a model it's what cox gives out. Would you please post what you get. We have a 6412 phase 1 or 2.

Andrew Wees

Hi, I have been gone since April on this thread, looking to go back to cable now that Dish tool Lifetime and Lifetime movie off (wife is mad) also looks like my ABC may go off of dish due to an other contract issue.

QUESTION:

Do any of the COX systems do FULL HD or just the HD Lite like Direct TV does (some on Dish were saying the Voom channels are the more full HD).

See below

QUESTION 2

I live in Omaha, what HD DVR model should I try to get, is the newer phase III avl in all areas, should I request a certain model?

True 1080i 1920x1080i: 1920x540x60 = 62,208,000 pixels/sec
720p 1280x720p: 1280x720x60 = 55,296,000 pixels/sec
HD-Lite 1280x1080i: 1280x540x60 = 41,472,000 pixels/sec
DVD 720x480i: 720x240x60 = 10,368,000 pixels/sec

True 1080i: 6X DVD quality
720p: 5.33X DVD quality
HD-Lite: 4X DVD quality

omarh

01-06-06, 01:02 AM

Whitearrow

01-06-06, 12:39 PM

My understanding is that the FCC requires cable co's to provide a cable card if you want one.

I'll be very interested in the TiVo, too. I'd love to have the capabilities like wish lists, internet scheduling, and season passes that understand the difference between a "repeat" and a "duplicate" back again. I just finished deleting about 20 duplicate episodes of Dinner for Five off the 6412's Scheduled Recordings list.

I'm not sure how many hours of HD the TiVo will hold, but it's got to be more than 10-12...

moyekj

01-06-06, 06:04 PM

Hey guys what do you think of this? The series 3 Tivo supports cablecards. Does anyone know if you can get a cablecard from Cox in OC?

http://www.pvrblog.com/pvr/2006/01/hd_tivo_series_.html

I am really excited about this...depending on its cost, I might seriously consider it...the idea of adding my own external storage via SATA is awesome. I also love TIVO's software...its written much better than DISH's pvr, or COX's pvr software. Cox OC does have CableCard available as required by FCC regulations. I believe the cost is about $5/month and I doubt they have multi-stream cable cards so for this Tivo Series 3 you would need 2 CableCards in addition to the undoubtedly huge upfront cost of the hardware (I would imagine close to $1,000) plus the monthly Tivo Service fee or the $300 lifetime. Add to that all the DRM which no doubt will be built in I certainly would not be the first to jump on this. Letting software stablize and hackers figure out how to extract recorded shows, etc. may take a long while to happen, so I think it will be a couple of years before this really becomes a worthwhile viable alternative to what we currently have. It certainly will have much higher upfront and monthly costs no matter how you go about it and may be somewhat unreliable as I have heard of problems with people using CableCards (and no real incentive for Cox to support since they would rather you use their boxes).

sophware

01-07-06, 10:50 AM

Since sometime after 10 last night, I can't get anything other than a very quiet, bass sound from CBS in HD unless I manually change the 6412 to output PCM.

Any ideas?

History:

Two weeks ago I traded for the phase III and last night, a little after 10pm, I tried playing with HDMI with my DVD player and the 6412. Sometime later, I discovered that my recording of "In Justice" still worked fine, but all the live show watching I'm doing isn't working. I tried at 1am, 2am, 3am, 9am and 10am. All other channels work fine. The only way for me to get pretty normal audio is to go into settings, More Settings, Audio, Digital Audio and change from AC-3/DD to PCM.

One might think that the attempt to play w/ HDMI is the source of the problem, given the timing and the gossip that the HDMI stuff (I have firmware .18, not .22 yet) is buggy and messes w/ audio. I suspect as much; but, there is some conflcting evidence. 1st, I'm not using HDMI any more. Video is on component and I've tried both optical and coax for the audio. I've uplugged and re-plugged the box (should I do a more thorough type of reset?). All the other channels work fine. 2nd, on my OTA HD tuner, WLNE HD audio sounds very, very similar and is thus useless. On that box (an LG 3510a) I don't know how to set it for PCM out.

Help? Comments? Advice? Laughter and ridicule?

I'm dead -- I'm having raving Pats fans over for the game so they can see it in nice HD. Neither of my HD sources is working acceptibly!!

ajwees41

01-08-06, 09:59 PM

New bug

I tried refreshing the guide data to see what the HBO Saturday movie will be next week and I now get spanish or garbled program listings just for today Sunday though on some channels. What could be causing this?

Andrew Wees

phdeane

01-08-06, 10:01 PM

ajwees41

01-08-06, 10:35 PM

I was just using HBO as an example. I wounder what's causing the guide info to be missed up just for today.

Andrew Wees

Andrew,

I don't see this. It seems to be fine on my phase III box - BTW, it is Ocean's Twelve

Mystic1

01-09-06, 07:24 PM

Phase III boxes are nothing but crap. I went thru 4 - yes FOUR boxes - none lasting more than a week or two. All the while a Phase II box sitting right next to it has been rock solid and never failed. Don't get me wrong, the Phase II is nothing to write home about - the software is crude by any standard, but at least the drives don't lock-up and crash.

Personally, I'm going to replace these moto boxes as soon as I can find a viable solution, and would strongly recommend everyone else do the same. The only message that Cox or Motorola will ever understand is a significant drop in sales/usage ... everything else is just noise to them.

And when IPTV comes along, hopefully it will provide us access to all those missing HD channels...

gb61

01-09-06, 07:56 PM

The only message that Cox or Motorola will ever understand is a significant drop in sales/usage ... everything else is just noise to them.

When the Tivo Series3 is available, Cox will probably lose half their DVR customers within a couple of weeks. Maybe that will send the message.

moyekj

01-09-06, 08:01 PM

When the Tivo Series3 is available, Cox will probably lose half their DVR customers within a couple of weeks. Maybe that will send the message. Sincerely doubt it given the high upfront and monthly costs. Likely the hardware will be $1,000+ and then you need 2*CableCard monthly rental fee + Tivo monthly service fee (or another $300 lifetime). And then you have CableCard issues to deal with (which Cox will have little motivation to fix) and no doubt a lot of DRM which hackers will have to spend time to workaround. Believe me I want the Tivo Series3 alternative to be viable, but it just doesn't look that way from a practical standpoint at least for a couple of years, even though in theory it blows away our current solution.

Mystic1

01-09-06, 08:05 PM

I'd agreee that the series 3 Tivo will likely be more expensive to start, but I don't the DRM or cable-card issues will present a problem since even with DRM we would have more than we have now... and with a SATA external connection capacity won't be an issue...

Crescent

01-09-06, 08:11 PM

Please excuse my ignorance. What is IPTV? As in TCP/IP TV?

ajwees41

01-09-06, 08:43 PM

What was wrong with the phase 3 boxes?

Andrew Wees

Phase III boxes are nothing but crap. I went thru 4 - yes FOUR boxes - none lasting more than a week or two. All the while a Phase II box sitting right next to it has been rock solid and never failed. Don't get me wrong, the Phase II is nothing to write home about - the software is crude by any standard, but at least the drives don't lock-up and crash.

Personally, I'm going to replace these moto boxes as soon as I can find a viable solution, and would strongly recommend everyone else do the same. The only message that Cox or Motorola will ever understand is a significant drop in sales/usage ... everything else is just noise to them.

And when IPTV comes along, hopefully it will provide us access to all those missing HD channels...

Mystic1

01-09-06, 08:56 PM

Mystic1

01-09-06, 08:59 PM

IPTV is the new Internet based version of cable tv - delivering tv channels over the internet using STBs similiar to Cable/Satalite. There are several companies rolling out the service(s) - however they won't be subject to the geographic limitations that cable companies are, or the atmospheric conditions. Of course they WILL be subject to internet outages and internet traffic, but those are coming fewer and farther between...

phdeane

01-10-06, 01:24 AM

Things wrong the Phase III's

1) Hard drives kept crashing and losing all the contents.
2) They would periodically lock up and need a hard reboot (unplug)
3) They would often have HEAVY pixellation on recordings.
4) They would often record with audio out of sync with video
5) they would sometimes ignore the parental lock settings.
6) They would sometimes record much much longer than the reqeusted show (i.e. it would record 3 hours for a 1 hour episode - and yes, they guid had the correct times).
7) They would sometimes reboot right in the middle of a recording for no apparent reason.

On the same cable connection I have a series II which has never significantly screwed up or crashed - and a ReplayTV which has been rock solid. So it's not a "signal" problem. In addition, I have two friends who have had similiar problems until they finally "downgraded" to the series II. And the cable techs have also all told they are constantly swapping the series III boxes. They're just junk.

Mystic 1,

You must have gotten a bad lot or something. I have two phase III boxes, without a single issue you mention (well, perhaps the parental lock, but I don't know, as I don't use it). After going through that, I don't blame you for dumping it. I also have TiVo and its GUI is hard to beat. However, I'm with Moyekj in that the high start-up cost of TiVo will prevent many from jumping ship from Cox. Cox will get these issues resolved. In fact, for many the latest release is very stable. I have done hundreds of recordings with the latest release and have yet to see the dreaded subscription bug.

Don't get me wrong; I feel for you. I just feel that the low cost of the Cox solution outweighs any advantage that the average person sees from TiVo. In fact, many call their DVRs TiVo. It seems that TiVo has allowed their name to go the way of Kleenex (there's a marketing term for that, but I don't recall - you know, when your brand name becomes the generic name??). For the average Joe, a DVR is a DVR is a DVR. Very unfortunate, but still reality. I love my TiVo and will probably get a new series 3 when it comes out. It will, however, coexist with my two phase III boxes.

schmitter

01-10-06, 09:02 AM

I think that TIVO has an advantage here. They released their first DVR in 1999. That was a more simple time. No HD content. No digital content. The box only accepted analog inputs and controlled a separate cable box. I don't have direct experience with them back then, but my bet is that they had problems as well. If you really look at it, it is really a miracle the Cox DVR works at all. Look at all it has to do. Decide if you should get the channel or not, decode HD, work with video on demand, record in the backround even if you are watching VOD and it has to do it without violating any existing patents that TIVO holds. Sure there are downsides to being an "early adopter", but I sure wouldn't want to wait until the box is working at 100% to get it. Even now it works much more often than it doesn't.

moyekj

01-10-06, 02:51 PM

I agree with schmitter. I started off with a ReplayTV DVR back in 2000 and it had it's share of problems and took several years to mature into a now very stable product, and the hardware functions were much simpler than these dual-HD tuner DVR boxes. If you look at all the Cable HD DVR solutions currently deployed there are plenty of problems for all of them - just look at AVS forums. They are all maturing, however, just as the DCT6412 with Passport Echo has come a LONG way from where we were. The current DCT6412 Passport Echo is by no means perfect but is a heck of a lot more functional and reliable than it was just a year ago. Yes I still get occasional missed or partial recordings with no good explanation but those are now few and far between and I still use my ReplayTVs as backups for all recordings so I hardly ever miss anything I want to record.

I have no doubt the Tivo Series 3 will mature into a much better product than what we have now with the DCT6412 Passport Echo solution, but it will take time and in the meantime the Passport Echo solution will also be improved, so I think it would be premature to jump on the Tivo solution. I will watch it very closely in the forums and may eventually go for it if/when the time is right.

Shane Martin

01-10-06, 03:53 PM

When the Tivo Series3 is available, Cox will probably lose half their DVR customers within a couple of weeks. Maybe that will send the message.
I'll bet pretty good money they won't. The cost to jump in will force MOST folks to bail on the TIVO idea.

phdeane

01-10-06, 03:59 PM

I agree with both moyekj and schmitter, but I suppose that none of this is any consulation to mystic1, as he cannot even get a phase III box that works.

Believe me, mystic1, we feel your pain. We just want you to see that for those of us who have working boxes, much of the pain is in the past and we are enjoying our DVRs. As you all know, the forums are usually skewed towards those having problems, so I am sure there are others that are enjoying their "farily" problem-free DVRs.

That being said, I will be one of the first to get a TiVo series 3 and will go through the growing pains (again) with them, too.

Whitearrow

01-10-06, 05:38 PM

Sincerely doubt it given the high upfront and monthly costs. Likely the hardware will be $1,000+ and then you need 2*CableCard monthly rental fee + Tivo monthly service fee (or another $300 lifetime). And then you have CableCard issues to deal with (which Cox will have little motivation to fix) and no doubt a lot of DRM which hackers will have to spend time to workaround. Believe me I want the Tivo Series3 alternative to be viable, but it just doesn't look that way from a practical standpoint at least for a couple of years, even though in theory it blows away our current solution.

It will certainly cost more, but I'm not sure it will be quite as bad as you're saying. I doubt the hardware will be $1000 or even close -- $500 is probably closer to what they're aiming for, but time will tell. They may even offer transfer of lifetime service again, as they did for the series 1 people. Even a discount would make a big difference for me. (And if not, hey, I can finally sell my series 2 with lifetime and at least get something back.)

As for two cable cards, if I get the new TiVo, I would combine 1 cable card with an indoor/outdoor antenna, so I can get the digital OTA channels uncompressed. (If it costs $100 to get that up and running, it's well worth it, IMO.) If that works, I can't see any reason why I'd need two cable cards -- those are only for the decrypting digital channels, as I understand it, and I can deal with recording only one of those at a time until Cox has the second generation cable card available.

I won't be the first person to buy the new TiVo, but I'll be monitoring those people closely on the boards to see how it goes, and if the lifetime transfer offer happens. TiVo is just so much better in so many ways, and it looks like the hardware will have the capabilities I'd really like to have.

moyekj

01-10-06, 06:29 PM

It will certainly cost more, but I'm not sure it will be quite as bad as you're saying. I doubt the hardware will be $1000 or even close -- $500 is probably closer to what they're aiming for, but time will tell. They may even offer transfer of lifetime service again, as they did for the series 1 people. Even a discount would make a big difference for me. (And if not, hey, I can finally sell my series 2 with lifetime and at least get something back.)

As for two cable cards, if I get the new TiVo, I would combine 1 cable card with an indoor/outdoor antenna, so I can get the digital OTA channels uncompressed. (If it costs $100 to get that up and running, it's well worth it, IMO.) If that works, I can't see any reason why I'd need two cable cards -- those are only for the decrypting digital channels, as I understand it, and I can deal with recording only one of those at a time until Cox has the second generation cable card available. Note that Series 3 will have 6 tuners total (2 NTSC for Analog, 2 ATSC for OTA, 2 QAM + CableCards for encrypted cable) and 2 analog encoders (decent encoders are pretty expensive) even though only 2 can be used at a time. Also note the lowest capacity will probably be a 250G internal hard drive. That's a lot of expensive hardware. Considering the DCT6412 hardware is around $600-$700 I would estimate the Tivo Series 3 would easily exceed that price. In the past Tivo (and ReplayTV) have made losses on the hardware they try and recoup with the Service fees, but I'm not sure that model is sustainable for Tivo especially on this new hardware so I think they would at least try and break even on hardware sales for this new box. Hence I sincerely doubt it would be $500. I absolutely hate the monthly service fee so for me the cost would be hardware + $300 lifetime which still makes it pretty expensive even for hardware at $500.

I used 2*CableCard for apples-apples comparison to DCT6412 (recording 2 QAM inputs at once). It will be interesting to see how Tivo software will deal with a mix of different inputs such as OTA and QAM - you will need separate channels listings for each and one set of channel numbers will need to be offset to remain unique. I'm not familiar with how Tivo deals with this, but I do know how ReplayTV deals with multiple different inputs so suspect it will be similar.

Having said all that if the 30-second skip hack is still available in this Series 3 that alone may be worth the price of admission for me...

Crescent

01-10-06, 06:57 PM

I don't have direct experience with them back then, but my bet is that they had problems as well. If you really look at it, it is really a miracle the Cox DVR works at all.

We've all been trained to accept sub-standard quality. If we are beta testers, then we shouldn't be charged. And that's one thing Cox knows how to do.

rdenichilo

01-10-06, 09:35 PM

Here is a pretty cool video showing the series three in action. I can't wait to get rid of my worthless Cox box.

http://www.gearlive.com/index.php/news/article/ces-2006-video-tivo-series-3-video-interview-first-look-0108051437/

ScottChez

01-11-06, 09:20 AM

moyekj

01-11-06, 01:29 PM

gb61

01-11-06, 04:14 PM

An addendum was posted today to the video link that rdenichilo posted above. It talks about Tivo Series3 pricing:

Addendum, January 11, 2006:
Per Colin’s trackback post below, I realize that I was not at all thinking when I provided an estimate of $800-$1,200 for the Series 3. Understand that I didn’t get much sleep this weekend. What I meant to write was the more widely reported, and certainly more accurate $400-$800, and probably on the lower end of that, to boot. TiVo’s cost model lately seems to be pushing more and more towards driving users to buy into the required subscription model, and using that as a way to subsidize the unit’s cost. Obviously, they’ll want to recoup the costs associated with the rebuild of the software, the additional HD tuners and some other more advanced hardware, but they recognize the return is on the subscription, and making the entry point cost-prohibitive is sketchy at best. Obviously, we won’t see any $50 Series 3’s for a long time here, but I’m thinking we won’t see any $1,200 ones either. Thanks for calling me out, but let’s hope they’ll keep things sub-$400!

rbird

01-13-06, 12:27 PM

It will be interesting to see how Tivo software will deal with a mix of different inputs such as OTA and QAM - you will need separate channels listings for each and one set of channel numbers will need to be offset to remain unique. I'm not familiar with how Tivo deals with this, but I do know how ReplayTV deals with multiple different inputs so suspect it will be similar. Tivo has already dealt with this issue. Series 1 & 2 units already have the capability to handle duplicate channel numbers (simple answer: both are listed, if the channels are actually duplicates of each other, one can easily be removed in the channel guide settings if desired). OTA + Satellite, OTA + cable, and cable + satellite lineups have coexisted for many years now.

Bob

moyekj

01-13-06, 12:48 PM

Tivo has already dealt with this issue. Series 1 & 2 units already have the capability to handle duplicate channel numbers (simple answer: both are listed, if the channels are actually duplicates of each other, one can easily be removed in the channel guide settings if desired). OTA + Satellite, OTA + cable, and cable + satellite lineups have coexisted for many years now.

Bob So if duplicate channel numbers are both listed (as the same channel number) I suppose there must be some way to know from which input each applies to from the EPG? Seems confusing to keep the same channel number especially if the same channel numbers are actually completely different stations. ReplayTV offsets the input with least channels by 1000 such there are unique channel numbers for both lineups (and of course you can then remove channels from either lineup you don't want). I'm sure it's pretty intuitive but just trying to find out how this is dealt with by Tivo.

drcwks

01-13-06, 02:33 PM

I keep reading the many posts out there and I am confused, many over at the DBS (SAT) Forums say Cox is also using HD Lite for everything but the local HDs (they might be biased).

Does anyone have a way of confirming this. Is cox downresing the HD Networks like DIshnetwork and Direct TV is also doing?

======chart=========
True 1080i 1920x1080i: 1920x540x60 = 62,208,000 pixels/sec
720p 1280x720p: 1280x720x60 = 55,296,000 pixels/sec
HD-Lite 1280x1080i: 1280x540x60 = 41,472,000 pixels/sec
DVD 720x480i: 720x240x60 = 10,368,000 pixels/sec

True 1080i: 6X DVD quality
720p: 5.33X DVD quality
HD-Lite: 4X DVD quality

I'm glad somone else is seeing this. I know I'm particular..that's why I bought an HD tv. I have noticed over 6 months ago the Discovery Channel seemed to be a 'softer' HD picture. That was the channel I would always use to 'show off' my HDTV. That's not the case anymore. THEN I recently had COX PHONE service added to my cable and I was told it would NOT affect my HDTV. WELL.... I did notice that night the HD shows were not as vibrant, etc. Since then I will have to admit SOME shows look pretty good but there is a fine line from HD lite to TRUE HD where you just say WOW...what a picture. I did call cable out before Christmas since I was getting ghosting. All the tech did was tighten up all the connections OUTSIDE and then he said he turned something else on. THAT night I had the best HD pictures I have seen in a long time. But less than a week later I am noticing a softer HD picture. I definitely think COX has done something to the pitcure quality in the last 6 months unless it's due to the software in the HD6412.
I plan on having my phone service disconnected to prove that I get a better HD picture without it.... Hope this makes sense.

DRC

kcrudup

01-13-06, 02:41 PM

I plan on having my phone service disconnected to prove that I get a better HD picture without it
I find this hard to believe. If your PVR's signal were being affected to the point it disrupted by the phone service, you'd get a blocky or non-existant picture, NOT a "softer" one- I'm willing to bet those boxes don't have the capability to do bitrate-dependent smothing. Not only that, the interference would make your analog picture unwatchable. Are your digital cable movie channels looking any differently?

If your HDTV pictures are looking any differently, it's all on Cox' end, and merely a coincidence. FWIW, I have Cox HDTV (6412 S3) and Cox phone in the OC and my HD signals (esp. INHD) (subjectively, of course) don't look any different from when I was with ComCast in Costa Mesa.

moyekj

01-13-06, 05:45 PM

It's pretty easy to confirm for yourself on the Cox network HD channels - just compare them to OTA reception. I have compared OTA HD versus Cox HD for CBS, ABC, etc. many times (besides also looking at capture transport stream specs) and have not noticed any visual difference between them.

udaykrao

01-14-06, 03:58 PM

I have been having significant reboot problems with the DCT6412 III box using HDMI and received an email from Motorola saying that it was a known problem and was fixed in firmware 12.23 which has been provided to all the cable companies. So now I would like Cox to upgrade the box. Any idea how I get them to do it?

kcrudup

01-15-06, 06:09 PM

schmitter

01-16-06, 09:14 AM

I'm glad somone else is seeing this. I know I'm particular..that's why I bought an HD tv. I have noticed over 6 months ago the Discovery Channel seemed to be a 'softer' HD picture. That was the channel I would always use to 'show off' my HDTV. That's not the case anymore. THEN I recently had COX PHONE service added to my cable and I was told it would NOT affect my HDTV. WELL.... I did notice that night the HD shows were not as vibrant, etc. Since then I will have to admit SOME shows look pretty good but there is a fine line from HD lite to TRUE HD where you just say WOW...what a picture. I did call cable out before Christmas since I was getting ghosting. All the tech did was tighten up all the connections OUTSIDE and then he said he turned something else on. THAT night I had the best HD pictures I have seen in a long time. But less than a week later I am noticing a softer HD picture. I definitely think COX has done something to the pitcure quality in the last 6 months unless it's due to the software in the HD6412.
I plan on having my phone service disconnected to prove that I get a better HD picture without it.... Hope this makes sense.

DRC

Since phone and video services occur on different frequencies the only negative effect of having phone installed is that the phone device has an internal splitter in it, so your signal level at the box would be about 3db less than it was before. Since all HD signals are digital, it would have zero affect on quality of the picture. Digital will either work or not work or if it is on the very edge would tile or break up into big chunks.

That being said, I have seen ghosting before on the HD channels and each time it has been the convergence of the TV or a bad box. Usually the blue not lined up with the red and green. With my set I have "Magic Focus" which is just auto convergence and a quick run of that bad boy straightens it right out.

ScottChez

01-16-06, 11:45 AM

I saw in earlier post some talking about what HD channels they get.

Any word on Cox adding more HD Channels this year?

Like ESPN2 or more HD Movie channels?

An other question, how much reocrding time do you get with this DVR? Is the Hard Drive bigger in the Phase III models? Can you expand it?

ScottChez

01-16-06, 11:59 AM

moyekj

01-16-06, 02:26 PM

NEW Software upgrade?

I got something in the mail with my Cox bill.

It was called Cox Entertainment extra, it said an upgrade was on the way that would have a Bonus Zone with Passport Weather and Solitair Games. It also said iTV was on the way with Zone Channels.

Any one seen this yet? Is it a good thing. Can you pick your own channels with Zone Channels? Sounds in large part like the Passport & Passport Echo 2.7 update summarized here:
http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/dct6412/DCT6412_Passport.html#Passport_Echo_2.7_New_Feature_Summary

Nothing too exciting really. Which Cox market are you in?

ajwees41

01-16-06, 02:31 PM

It is the same thing Moyekj. Cox in Omaha NE is supposed to get it in March or April.

Andrew Wees

Sounds in large part like the Passport & Passport Echo 2.7 update summarized here:
http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/dct6412/DCT6412_Passport.html#Passport_Echo_2.7_New_Feature_Summary

Nothing too exciting really. Which Cox market are you in?

moyekj

01-16-06, 02:36 PM

I would hope they would concentrate on the Phase 3 6412 box firmware update before anymore Passport software updates.

walford

01-16-06, 05:20 PM

Last night's Denver game and today's 'Nap game (damn ... can't win 'em all :() looked VERY DAMN GOOD on my Cox OC 6412 S3. Despite Fox being 720P and CBS being 1080i, I have to give CBS the upper hand in picture quality.
What output resolution are you using with your 6412 III 720p or 1080i? and what type of TV do you have?

kcrudup

01-16-06, 10:06 PM

What output resolution are you using with your 6412 III 720p or 1080i? and what type of TV do you have?
I have a cheap Emprex 32" LCD at the OC place- it's 1366x768. After going back and forth and getting advice from several sources, I settled on letting the DVR output 1080i and letting the set downconvert to 768, considering that everybody but Fox is 1080i (IIRC). If there's compelling reasons to output 720P and let the set figure out to do with the "extra" 48 lines, I'd like to hear 'em, but I really couldn't see a difference either way.

I just wish the Moto boxes had a "Pass-thru" setting in that menu, though.

walford

01-16-06, 10:52 PM

ABC is also not 1080i (it is 720p)and since we watch only the ABC news and many other ABC programs on our 720p DLP HDTV we have the 6412 output in 720p since the PQ of ABC was worse if we had the 6412 upscale the ABC signal to 1080i only to have the TV downscale it back to 720p. You have to test either way with you and your family members to determine which you think is best for your home.

kcrudup

01-16-06, 11:03 PM

Damn, I was hoping y'all knew a trick that would let me set the Moto boxes to just pass-thru; my set can handle anything tossed at it (it even handles 3:2 pulldown; not a bad use of $800 for the "other" house).

moyekj

01-17-06, 02:58 AM

One more encouraging spec on the HD Tivo Series 3 I read about today is that it has pass-thru capability. There's still a lot of speculation on the price point but a growing consensus seem to think it will be $400-500 range for the hardware (no lifetime). If you go monthly on the service plan it may not be too hard to swallow as cable-card = $2/month ($4/month if you want 2) and you get to drop the Cox $10/month for the 6412 rental plus the $5/month PVR service fee - so the Cox price drop offset the monthly Tivo service.

Pluses about the Tivo:
* Expandable storage space with SATA drive
* Flexible inputs (NTSC, OTA, QAM+CableCard)
* Pass-thru capability of source to output
* More mature software (including proper Season Pass behavior)
* 30-sec skip hack (unconfirmed)
* Multi-room streaming and Tivo To Go (unconfirmed)
* Will handle MPEG-4 playback
* Hacking capability + 3rd party software (since you own the unit)

The more I think about it (and assuming the 30-sec hack will still be available), the more I am inclined to jump in on the Tivo Series 3 when released towards the end of this year.

I would be happy enough with the current 6412 + Passport software if I could increase storage and have a 30-sec skip, but chances of either of those happening are next to null.

kcrudup

01-17-06, 06:08 AM

Pluses about the Tivo:
Heh. You forgot:

- It's TiVO. I have a nearly-6-year-old Sony Series 1 that has been going strong (and with retrofitted 2 x 120GB drives) in 24x7 operation, plus the UI is the best. One of the things I really like about the Passport in the Cox 6412 S3 (vs. the ComCast 6408 when the other place was in Costa Mesa) was how TiVo-like the UI is- series passes, conflict management, etc.

I'll probably grab two of the boxes when they come available and hand back the Cox boxes.

marc1023

01-17-06, 12:35 PM

Everything had been going good with my phase II with the new upgrade until Sunday. I scheduled the NFL games to be recorded and only had 3 hours of analog stored on the disk. When I came home all shows were deleted including the first game and when I did a memory check there was only a total of 31 gig available including recorded and space available. I rebooted and reclaimed all the usual space. This seems to be the old bug of losing memory if you stop recording during a broadcast rather then letting it finish recording and then deleting. I also had 2 zero recording length programs the same day. One on HGTV and one on Fox HD. I use the DVI port on the phase II box and don't want a phase III with HDMI due to all the bad reports of using the HDMI port.
Does this box sound defective? If yes will COX replace a phase II with another Phase II if requested?

moyekj

01-17-06, 01:06 PM

marc1023 I had a similar issue with the NFL games on Sunday. I have had problems before when scheduling 2 NFL games since I usually pad them by 1 hour such that both recordings take about 8 hours which fills up most of the available space. I had a 1 hour show already recorded on the DVR which I was trying to preserve. So I scheduled the first game to record then watched it time-shifted. Right before start of 2nd game I setup to record 2nd game. As soon as time for 2nd recording came about however it deleted the saved show I wanted to watch and popped up a message saying not enough space to record and did not start recording the 2nd game. Since I was almost done watching the 1st I finished watching it then deleted it. As soon as I did that the 2nd game started recording. So in theory while I should have had enough space to record both games and preserve the 1 hour HD recording the box couldn't do it.

I think part of the problem is the software does look ahead to upcoming recordings which I had 3 hours worth of HD scheduled that night and many during the week. If you get anywhere close to filling up the available space the software may not behave as expected.

I think the bottom line is the box simply doesn't have enough recording capacity for HD shows. I use it exclusively for HD and have to adopt the "watch as you go" style since I cannot keep shows for very long and I have quite a lot setup to record during primetime. This lack of disk space has now become my biggest complaint with the box along with the lack of a 30-second skip - 2 very good reasons to go for the Tivo Series 3 when released.

seanmorrissey

01-18-06, 01:38 AM

I had a technician at my house today. He informed of two things:

1) Phase III boxes are worthless. Do not upgrade and if you plan on using HDMI, WAIT. If you have a box that appears to be working, do not change anything!

2) Upgrade is being rooled-out tonight in OC. He did not have any details about the fixes, but anticipated he would be really busy come tomorrow.

kcrudup

01-18-06, 03:25 AM

[my tech said] Phase III boxes are worthless.
... unh ... huh. Did he expound on this "worthlessness"? I read this thread from start to finish before I decided to get a "6413", but other than the one bad recording, so far, so good.

ajwees41

01-18-06, 05:07 AM

Looks like Omaha NE is also getting an update. The 6412 just shut down and is downloading new software.

The Passport Echo version in Omaha NE is 2.5.040. I don't notice any cosmitic changes.

Andrew Wees

I had a technician at my house today. He informed of two things:

1) Phase III boxes are worthless. Do not upgrade and if you plan on using HDMI, WAIT. If you have a box that appears to be working, do not change anything!

2) Upgrade is being rooled-out tonight in OC. He did not have any details about the fixes, but anticipated he would be really busy come tomorrow.

kcrudup

01-18-06, 06:26 AM

I just got EC 2.5.040, TC 12.27 . I don't notice any obvious changes in a precursory glance at the menus.

AMRivlin

01-18-06, 08:46 AM

Irvine OC, 6412 III confirming 2:27 AM Boot

Echo 2.5.040, TC 12.27

AMRivlin

01-18-06, 08:50 AM

I might add, last night 2 recordings failed as I had unplugged my coax for about 2 hours, which is fine, anyway the new software reports in the DVR Menu, Recording Error. I believe this is new.

moyekj

01-18-06, 09:29 AM

In Orange County Phase 2 boxes didn't get a firmware update but got the minor Passport Echo update from 2.0.5.037 to 2.0.5.040. I don't believe the error reporting in the DVR Menu is new - that was already there in 2.0.5.037.

ajwees41

01-18-06, 12:21 PM

That's what happened in Omaha also. The Passport Echo update no new firmware on a phase 2.

Andrew Wees

In Orange County Phase 2 boxes didn't get a firmware update but got the minor Passport Echo update from 2.0.5.037 to 2.0.5.040. I don't believe the error reporting in the DVR Menu is new - that was already there in 2.0.5.037.

moyekj

01-18-06, 12:40 PM

So would be nice for someone with Phase 3 box and new 12.27 firmware to confirm that the HDMI and Dolby->PCM audio switching problems are fixed.

I've updated my web page with the new version info.

jlstang95

01-18-06, 12:40 PM

Is the HDMI dolby digital switching problem fixed with the new firmware for the phase III boxes.

jlstang95

01-18-06, 12:41 PM

Hey moyekj you beat me to the punch. :D

Tiresius

01-18-06, 12:54 PM

In Orange County:
My Phase 3 box did recieve the much-needed firmware upgrade. My firmware went from 12.18 to 12.27. Passport Echo went from 2.5.037 to 2.5.040. The update and reboot completed at 2:27am this morning.

The firmware upgrade appears to have fixed the reboot problem with the HDMI port.

I re-connected the HDMI output on the DVR to the DVI port on my Toshiba TV using a HDMI-DVI cable. I then tried powering both the TV and the DVR on and off several times and did not have any reboots.

Prior to the update, turning the TV off would almost always cause the DVR to go into a continuous reboot until I either disconnected the HDMI-DVI cable or powered the TV back on. Since this made it unusable, I had been using component. I'm happy to be back to HDMI/DVI now because I needed the component for another device.

With this fix in place I would disagree with the cox tech that the Phase 3 boxes are "worthless". I've had the previous boxes since they were first released and have been on this thread since the very beginning. I swapped my Phase 2 out for a phase 3 just before christmas and the only problem I had with it that I did not also have with the Phase 2 was the rebooting when using the HDMI port. I had to go back to component. This was an inconvenience, but worth living with for a while becase the analog channels look SO much better with the phase 3 than the phase 2.

If you have a phase 2 and have been waiting, I'd wait until you can confirm the firmware has been rolled out in your market and wait for the dust to settle to confirm the HDMI and "sound settings" issue have really been fixed. After that, I think the Phase 3 box is the way to go.

Finally, there have been some who have asked whether you can specify which box you get. Since I live just a few blocks from Cox in RSM, I simply went into the office and requested a phase 3 box. Initially I had them add this to my account as a 2nd DVR. The counter behind the service desk is stacked with dozens of boxes, some of them are phase 2 and some are phase 3. She picked out a phase 3 from the stack and I was out the door. Once I had hooked up the phase 3 and verified it was working, I gathered up the phase 2 and took it back to the Cox office. The charge for having two boxes will be prorated for how long I had them both, so for me it'll be 1/30th of $15. If you live near a Cox office, it's a pretty convenient way to go and there's no charge for a service call.

Cheers,
Ray

Shazam1242

01-18-06, 12:58 PM

So would be nice for someone with Phase 3 box and new 12.27 firmware to confirm that the HDMI and Dolby->PCM audio switching problems are fixed.

I've updated my web page with the new version info.

I use component for video and digital coax for sound. I had the audio switching problem before, and still have it after the update last night.

Tiresius

01-18-06, 12:59 PM

So would be nice for someone with Phase 3 box and new 12.27 firmware to confirm that the HDMI and Dolby->PCM audio switching problems are fixed.

I've updated my web page with the new version info.

The HDMI problem does appear to be fixed. This issue was very easy for me to duplicate before the update and no longer occurs on my setup.

I'd be happy to test the Dolby->PCM audio switching issue this evening, but I'm not sure my test results would be definitive since I use HDMI->DVI and no sound is passed to my TV. I can't confirm that this issue occured for me before the update because I never tested it.

If someone would review the steps I'd take to test this I'll do it tonight.

Cheers,
Ray

ScottChez

01-18-06, 02:56 PM

QUESTION:

Does the Phase three have a Wide Zoom button where if your watch say your local News on a HD channel which of course is not broadcasted in Wide Screen (it has black bars) you can do a Wide Zoom while watching an HD channel.

or are you stuck with what ever picture mode the HD channel is broadcasting in?

In other words I want to get rid of those black bars that you see on some of those HD channels when they are not doing full HD content (Im too lazy to switch the tv mode). I want the DVR to switch when I push a button.

(Direct TV and DishNetworks DVRs do this).

jlstang95

01-18-06, 09:29 PM

HDMI Dolby Digital Switching problem was fixed with firmware update :D

btrotta

01-18-06, 10:18 PM

I've read all about the issues with the 6412 S3 boxes that other folks are having, and so far, knock on wood, I haven't had any of THEM. However, I have had a few that I haven't seen mentioned before and want to know if anyone has heard of them and/or has any fixes.

First, and most annoying is I am using the component video and the digital audio connection and there's a 2-3 second delay when changing channels and fast forwarding in recorded programs before the sound comes on. It's a pain because you have to jump back just to catch all the dialog. Anyone have this problem? I didn't have it with the regular analog audio on my old S2 box.

Second, while watching recorded shows the screen will occasionally go black. The only way to fix the problem is to rewind a bit. Usually the second time you watch that segment the video shows up, but there have been a few times I've had to rewind 2 or 3 times to get the video to show.

I still have the old firmware and passport software in Enfield/Manchester, Connecticut. Will the updates fix the problems? And does anyone have any idea when this area will be getting the update? I want to use HDMI to my plasma screen so I can use the component input for my ReplayTV 5080, but I'm not hooking up the HDMI without the update, I've got enough headaches already.

Finally, anyone keep track of the operating temperatures on their boxes? Mine usually runs at 104 degrees, but has hit a peak of 114. I'm curious as to what a normal operating temperature is for these and whether the huge amounts of heat these boxes produce may have an impact on their life.

Steve Wilcox

01-18-06, 11:47 PM

btrotta: The audio delay you described sounds a little like something that started happening on my Phase III box a couple of weeks ago. If I FF'd through a commercial, went too far, rewound briefly, maybe FF'd again, and hit Play, the sound was gone. I think the box was somehow messing up the audio signal, and my pre-amp couldn't lock onto it again. I could reliably get the sound back by either pausing the show for a few seconds, or by selecting any setting on the pre-amp that forced it to "look at" the 6412's audio (like selecting the cable input again, or selecting the surround format again).

I had had a similar problem with the Phase II box (and a different AV receiver) several months ago, but it cleared up after an update. The good news is that I haven't been able to force the problem again tonight, so the latest update might have cleared it up for the Phase III box.

I've noticed one distinct change in this update: When I change channels, a frozen image of the previous channel flashes on screen briefly before the new channel is shown.

schmitter

01-19-06, 03:53 PM

gb61

01-19-06, 11:02 PM

I hope I don't trigger a mass return of 6412/6413 units by reporting this.

Today my 6412 finally died after a year and a half, and I took it to Cox for replacement. They gave me a 6413 unit. Naturally, the first thing I did was the Down, B, Up, B trick to find out the disk space. To my surprise, here is what I saw:

Recordable space: 127270MB
PVR_Content: used 19407MB free 128174MB total 147581MB

Clearly, Cox put a 160GB drive into this unit. I guess it was worth it to have my 6412 die and lose 5 hours of HD recordings, just to get this extra space.

***EDIT****
It looks like I got a model 6416 and not a 6413. The 6416 apparently comes with a 160GB drive.

walford

01-19-06, 11:14 PM

gb61

01-19-06, 11:29 PM

ajwees41

01-19-06, 11:43 PM

Does it have two fans like the 6412 phase3?

Andrew Wees

You are absolutely right! It's a 6416!!! I never even heard of it before! Is it new? I didn't even look at the bottom of the unit because when I saw the HDMI, I just figured it was a 6412 Phase III (AKA 6413).

gb61

01-19-06, 11:59 PM

Does it have two fans like the 6412 phase3?

Andrew Wees

It appears to have only one fan, on the bottom of the unit.

dwcliff703

01-20-06, 12:50 AM

With some of the phase III fixes now in place I have a question that may have been already answered but I can't find the answer. What is the physical difference between a phase II and III box? How do you tell the difference between them? If I go to the Cox office with my phase II box how can I be sure I get a phase III box?

moyekj

01-20-06, 02:23 AM

schmitter

01-20-06, 09:33 AM

moyekj

01-20-06, 11:00 AM

QUESTION:

Does the Phase three have a Wide Zoom button where if your watch say your local News on a HD channel which of course is not broadcasted in Wide Screen (it has black bars) you can do a Wide Zoom while watching an HD channel.
There is a way to accomplish what you want (16:9 channel zoom), but not very conveniently and only at 480p resolution:
# Press Menu on remote followed by A (More Settings)
# Scroll to Output Formats and press Select
# Under FORMATS column choose 480p Std
# Then under options for 16:9 channels choose Zoom 16:9 Pic

tjstoddard

01-20-06, 12:01 PM

Has anyone else seen this?

When trying to ff or rw or instant replay a live or a recorded show, it was basically locking up with the picture just freezing and then it would jump a second or two. So in essence it was taking more time to rewind or fastforward than the time recorded. Maybe that's a new feature, "reverse time-shifting" :D

I don't know what caused it, but I seemed to have fixed it by forcing a reboot by holding down the power key....

Thanks Moyekj!!!!!!!!! for your awesome guide...

ajwees41

01-20-06, 12:08 PM

All of the DVR boxes are 6412s. The different numbers are internal Cox item numbers.

6412 = series 1 or 2
6413 = series 3 120GB
6416 = series 3 160GB

Were did you get your info? Also if they were internal cox item numbers why are they also listed on the Motorola website?

Andrew Wees

gb61

01-20-06, 12:48 PM

All of the DVR boxes are 6412s. The different numbers are internal Cox item numbers.

6412 = series 1 or 2
6413 = series 3 120GB
6416 = series 3 160GB

Mine actually says DCT-6416 III on the front panel.

drcwks

01-20-06, 12:57 PM

I find this hard to believe. Not only that, the interference would make your analog picture unwatchable. Are your digital cable movie channels looking any differently?

My digital pictures are really not that great in my opinion. The analog pictures
are tolerable. After my post last week I just had trouble with another channel.
INHD1. I guess you can say it was tiling but much differently than before. In the past tiling would break up in a portion of the picture and the outsides would still look okay. (I'm talking just a few secs). Well...the INHD1 channel had a fairly good picture but whenever you had motion the tiling would begin but smoother blocks. The static part of the picture in the foreground or back ground DID NOT TILE but you could see smooth patches in differnt areas. Hard to explain. I recorded just a portion to show the cable tech who came this week. He checked out ALL my connections and checked the signal strength. ALL was okay..OF course my INHD1 was working normally and had a pretty good picture. The tech called into HQ and I could hear the person on the other end saying if all the signals now check out...maybe it was a main line proble. SOOO...nothing was resolved. I may take my DVR back in and exhcange it for another. I'm ALSO getting sound drops. Not ALL the time. The silence would last a sec or so and maybe happen once every 5-10 minutes.... I guess I won't mess with the phone issue until I get another DCT6412. I DO know the show in question was working just fine at Cox HQ in town since I called during the show. I"m still getting occasional normal tiling on the HD channels....like on 604 Fox...LOST and INVASION. Also on 612 CBS but just intermittent....

drcwks

01-20-06, 01:09 PM

Since phone and video services occur on different frequencies the only negative effect of having phone installed is that the phone device has an internal splitter in it, so your signal level at the box would be about 3db less than it was before. Since all HD signals are digital, it would have zero affect on quality of the picture. Digital will either work or not work or if it is on the very edge would tile or break up into big chunks.

That being said, I have seen ghosting before on the HD channels and each time it has been the convergence of the TV or a bad box. Usually the blue not lined up with the red and green. With my set I have "Magic Focus" which is just auto convergence and a quick run of that bad boy straightens it right out.

I guess the main reason I first suspected the phone was because that night the channels were just not the same. I have since had the cable tech out and he said all my signals were good. Of course 3 days later my INHD1 channels was working okay. My TV is a few years old SONY..... CRT XBR wide screen so I don't think it's my TV.KD-34XBR960N. I think my DVR is messing up or I'm not getting a consistent signal all the time to my TV. If I have a problem again I need a tech out when the problem is going on so we can trouble shoot it.....Thanks for the feedback.

dwcliff703

01-20-06, 01:53 PM

So if I walk into the Cox store and ask to exchange the phase II box for a phase III box I would simply look for a model # on the box itself and it should either be 6413 or 6416?

All of the DVR boxes are 6412s. The different numbers are internal Cox item numbers.

6412 = series 1 or 2
6413 = series 3 120GB
6416 = series 3 160GB

gb61

01-20-06, 01:58 PM

So if I walk into the Cox store and ask to exchange the phase II box for a phase III box I would simply look for a model # on the box itself and it should either be 6413 or 6416?

It will say either DCT-6412 III or DCT-6416 III on the front of the box.

ajwees41

01-20-06, 01:58 PM

There are no 6413's the model is 6412 phase 3.

Andrew Wees

So if I walk into the Cox store and ask to exchange the phase II box for a phase III box I would simply look for a model # on the box itself and it should either be 6413 or 6416?

Tiresius

01-20-06, 02:13 PM

Does the model number on the bottom say 6413 or does is possilby say 6416? I have never heard of a 6413 but have heard of a 6416 and in the past the last two digits of the Motorola STBs indicated the HDD capacitly ie xxx12 ment 120GB and xx00 ment no HDD and xx16 ment 160GB>

The 6416 is cool news.
Based on that numbering logic, I'm ready and waiting for the 6450 .<g>

Sign me up for that one!

I guess an extra 40 gig is still worth a stop by the Cox office on my way home. That's about 2-3 hours more, and every little bit helps since I'm constantly having shows drop off before I can get them watched. I went out of town all last week and it really set me back since almost everything I watch was in new episodes.

The single biggest remaining problem with this box is storage capacity. Storage expandability alone will put me in line for a Tivo S3 when they come out, all the other great Tivo features are just bonus after that.

moyekj

01-20-06, 02:52 PM

The single biggest remaining problem with this box is storage capacity. Storage expandability alone will put me in line for a Tivo S3 when they come out, all the other great Tivo features are just bonus after that. I totally agree. Expandable storage AND 30-second skip are HUGE advantages and enough to warrant the upfront $$. No matter what Passport Echo enhancements happen before the S3 Tivo becomes available I think those 2 issues will not be addressed (certainly the 30-sec skip will not). As a long-time Replaytv owner I'm sure some of the other Tivo "features" (or lack of) will annoy the heck out of me but I think I can learn to live with it compared to the DCT6412/Passport Echo solution.

kcrudup

01-20-06, 06:59 PM

The 6416 apparently comes with a 160GB drive.
Thanks! Snagged mine today!

GautLSU

01-20-06, 07:22 PM

Just to add to the software updates:

I checked my info page and sure enough, I also received 12.27 and the latest Echo back on the 19th. Lo and behold, my Dolby Digital is working flawlessly with HDMI! :D And that's some timing too, cause I just got my HDMI cable last week and was bummed over the PCM bug. :cool:

BTW, I'm in Louisiana

moyekj

01-20-06, 11:59 PM

Thanks for sharing the info gb61. I picked up a 6416 III on the way home from work and it's up and running already. The Cox store attendant was not too happy though - he stated that customers weren't supposed to know about it yet as they are tight on supply... so get yours soon while still available!

moyekj

01-21-06, 12:38 PM

I could not get CapDHVS working with the 6416 III for firewire capture to WinXP even when re-installing the 6412 drivers. I think updated drivers would have to be made for the 6416 to work by the looks of it. A quick Google search revealed no further insight on others having this problem. Anyone else with a 6416 able to get firewire capture working?

gb61

01-21-06, 10:27 PM

I picked up a 6416 III on the way home from work and it's up and running already. The Cox store attendant was not too happy though - he stated that customers weren't supposed to know about it yet as they are tight on supply

Such is the nature of the Internet - nothing stays a secret for very long :)

Glad you were able to get one.

ScottChez

01-22-06, 01:27 AM

Thinking of leaving Dishnetwork as they took away Lifetime and Lifetime Movies over a 76 cent price increase (Wife is mad).

On the Dishnetwork HD DVR you still get to adjust HD Signals with Wide and Wide Zoom modes to take away the black bars you get on some HD Channels (Like when watching the local news on there HD Channel ).

Help me to under stand . . .
You mean on the Cox HD DVR your Stuck with Black bars always on the HD Channels that happen to not be showing HD all the time?

moyekj

01-22-06, 01:56 AM

Help me to under stand . . .
You mean on the Cox HD DVR your Stuck with Black bars always on the HD Channels that happen to not be showing HD all the time? I posted in response to your earlier query above a method to wide zoom 16:9 if you are willing to view it at 420p:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6960762&&#post6960762
It's not possible to wide zoom it with the Motorola DVR box at 1080i/720p but many TVs can do it instead.

moyekj

01-22-06, 02:09 AM

The FF speeds on the new 6416 III box are MUCH faster than my 6412 I (6412/2000) unit. Could be the phase III boxes that are much zippier in general than the earlier boxes. Takes some getting used to but I like it... Also, huge difference in temperature due to improved cooling. My previous unit ran consistently over 130F while this new box runs around 100F - no doubt that helps the hard drive performance.

Bob R

01-22-06, 01:43 PM

We just tried to set up our Cox Cable Moto 6412 DVR, to record Amistad on HBO Signature. The dialog box pops up and states “Un-recordable Channel “. So, we scan forward on the menu and all shows on HBOS indicate the same thing.

We have never experienced this before.

I hope this is not a sign of things to come.

Could some of the other Cable provider members check this out to see if it is specific to all HBOS broadcasts or perhaps my RI Cox provider only?

Thanks,

Grumbling and cussing Bob

ajwees41

01-22-06, 01:50 PM

It's recorable on cox in Omaha.

Andrew Wees

We just tried to set up our Cox Cable Moto 6412 DVR, to record Amistad on HBO Signature. The dialog box pops up and states “Un-recordable Channel “. So, we scan forward on the menu and all shows on HBOS indicate the same thing.

We have never experienced this before.

I hope this is not a sign of things to come.

Could some of the other Cable provider members check this out to see if it is specific to all HBOS broadcasts or perhaps my RI Cox provider only?

Thanks,

Grumbling and cussing Bob