I have had a Motorola 6412 for a few days now. The dual tuner capability is not functioning yet. They say it will be activated within a few weeks (yeah, and pigs fly). DVI is functioning... well sort of. The same issues with previous boxes still apply. Have to sequence the power on's, or in my case just unplug and re plug the DVI cable. I have went back to component until this is fixed. There does not seem to be any difference in PQ. I did an experiment with looking at the difference tonite. I recorded some content on DiscoveryHD on the DVR then went back and watched it thru component then DVI. I could not see any difference.
The on screen menu is the pioneer passport interface. The DVR does both analog and digital and HD content. We have been happy with it. Those who have had Tivo have liked tivo's intuitiveness better- I hear. The firmware version is 8.03 for those of you keeping score.

The unit does seem to take awhile longer to lock in to the digital channels than my old 5100 with a few hiccups and drops during the first few seconds of a new channel.

On the good side when one views the guide, you can still see the programing in the upper right hand corner.

I have no idea whether the firewire is "firing" since I dont have any firewire devices to check out with, but they said it was.

Post a pic of the unit back and front please.

front

back

Originally posted by Kipp Jones
Post a pic of the unit back and front please.

I'm more interested in seeing a pic of the unit ID sticker on the bottom!

;)

I am offended by the implication, but here it is.

Thanks for the review. I'm waiting for one in Topeka. Now if Cox can just add some more HD channels, especially the locals I would be much happier.

I too am impatiently awaiting more locals. I may be adding an OTA receiver soon just out of spite.

Hi dresf,

Thanks for showing us the front, back, and bottom of the box.

Hope there's no insult in this request: could you post a few shots of the Passport user interface? How are your recordings listed? What does search look like? How do you set a show to record? What are the options?

BTW: how man days of program guide info do you get?

Thanks.

Are you a beta tester? If so, employee or customer?

If not, how did you find out your local system had the 6412's available?

Thanks for the review.

I am not a beta tester, just an early adopter glutton for punishment. Nor am I an employee or relative...
I called the cable provider awhile back and asked to be put on a list when the new boxes were available, mainly interested in DVI output, I then heard from a tech that was at my house on another issue that there were to be released. I get 7 days of programming in the guide. Here is a shot of what happens when you press "List" which shows which programs you have recorded

Program guide

press record from program guide or just hit record and this comes up:

hit the menu button and one gets this:

Looks decent enough. Anything is better than that TVGuide crap we have.

I'm looking forward to it. Comcast does a bit of extensive testing before they release new hardware. Surprised that your cable co would even release it in such a state.

You said: " Surprised that your cable co would even release it in such a state."


Such a state? This is not a bad stb, and they were VERY upfront with the fact that it would be a few weeks before the dual tuner was functional and a few other things. 99% of all customers are not going to notice a thing wrong with this unit. Those of us who are A-V obsessive are going to nit pick anything to death. The DVI issue one can understand a little because hardly anyone uses it except for us geeks. Most of the CSR's don't even know what DVI is. The tech guru here in town at the cable co. told me I was his first call about DVI. And he was very helpful and courteous. Kudos! He is going to follow up with me tomorrow to see if the new power up-power down sequencing is still effective.

There has to be immense pressure to bring the dvr's to market since the satellite co's and Tivo have a corner right now. Despite the fact that the box isnt fully functional it is still good business as long as they are up front and they were.

We believe we have solved my DVI issue with some delays in power up and some sequencing of the power on commands.

Originally posted by dresf
I am offended by the implication, but here it is.

No need to be offended, I was simply curious about the specific sub-model number (ie 6412/2000)

For the record, I have a 6208/2005.

;)

Regards,

Randy

This is very beta stuff- they couldn't have had the boxes for more than a few weeks before they released them. Comcast works with this stuff for months before they send them out.

I suspect like you, that these were the only DVRs they had and were under pressure to put something, anything out that would compete with Tivo.

Just curious as to what they charge?

We are charged 9.95 for the box rental, then an additional 4.95 for the dvr function. I think. I know the dvr price is correct, but the box rental I am fuzzy on.

Hey Bink: I thought nobody was believing that I actually had one. No harm dude.

since the current tvguide IPG doesn't support dual-tuner recording and Comcast wont release the 6412 without that capability, can we correctly assume it will come with the microsoft IPG?

avic,

Unfortunately, no. Some percentage of Comcast 6412s will continue to use the TVGuide software. What percentage is unknown.

An minor update to the Gemstar software is expected end summer for these boxes. Most MSOs will be deploying the 6412 this fall, but only Comcast has announced the intention to use the MS TV software on some boxes.

Comcast has not announced how or when they will deploy the MS DVR software. As of the announcement, they had not even decided many of these specifics.

I would expect you would see MS more prominently in the North West portions of the US.

Regards,
GoIrish

Originally posted by dresf
front

Thanks. Obviously from the download count you can see the interest in what the unit looks like. :) :) :)

Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

I have the 6208. I am very much looking forward to the new 6408/6412. One thing to keep in mind is that the Dual tuner Moto box does not have RF out. ***Make sure you have a TV with SVideo, Component, or DVI input.***

Mark

...or composite. but if all your tv has is an RF input, you're overdue for an upgrade!

We are charged 9.95 for the box rental, then an additional 4.95 for the dvr function. I think. I know the dvr price is correct, but the box rental I am fuzzy on.

It should be noted that the $9.95 monthly rental for the unit is the same price they charged for the nonDVR 5100. So, the only cost to switch to the DVR Motorola 6412 is the $4.95 charge for the actual DVR service.

I got mine yesterday from the Cox office in Manhattan, KS :D ! I've been looking forward to this since I saw it in the new products section of the website early this year. Everything is fairly good for the most part, so far. The remote is much more directional sensitive than the one for the non-dvr HD box, which sucks. I usually end up doing multiple button presses before I get what I want. I also had an issue with the purchase/parental PIN, which was eventually resolved. For anyone else who can't get that enabled, the initial/default PIN is 0000. I haven't tried the DVI since I don't have the cable yet.

Over the past 2 days I have noticed that the audio and video dropouts when turning channels have gone away. The term for this seem to be macro blocking.

We have given up the DVI connection and will wait patiently for a firmware upgrade sometime down the line. It does work but there are some hoops to jump through with my particular configuration so it is not worth the trouble.

We like this box. My wife can easily record programs and call them up, pause live programming...

An old wise man once said: "If momma is happy, everyone is happy"

Just two things on the wish list for us:

1. Navigation arrows automatically bring up info at bottom of screen, and the navigate with them through time and channel without bringing up guide, as the 5100 did.

2. The ratings (G,PG, R...) would show up on the bottom of the screen when changing channels.

All that being said, we like the pioneer echo GUI and with a few tweaks we will love it.

BTW. I felt my remote was decidedly better than the one with the 5100. Although now that we have all the dvr functions on the Pronto Pro, we dnn't use it anymore.

Originally posted by dresf


An old wise man once said: "If momma is happy, everyone is happy"



Very true.:cool: :cool: :cool:

Anyone know how much HD recording time I can expect to get on this thing? The drive is 120GB. What's the typical file size for a 2hr HD movie?

Originally posted by Brett Miles
Anyone know how much HD recording time I can expect to get on this thing? The drive is 120GB. What's the typical file size for a 2hr HD movie?

The 6208 (80Gb) gets about 8hrs (depends on the channel..bit rate of each HD channel is a little different)...extrapolating, you can figure on about 12hrs

Does your channel changing have large delays due to the write to disk always occurring.

My digital stb dvr drives me crazy waiting on it to go through a couple channels
Sometime there is 3-5 seconds delay. You may here to audio but the video is slow to catch up if you have gone up 4 channels or so

Does anyone know if tivo has this attrbute too?

I do not notice a big delay when changing channels, at first there was some delay, drops outs when changing channels, that was noticeable, but for sure not 3-5 sec's, maybe 1 sec. I attributed this to the disk write as well. I do not notice it now.
I feel the 6412 changes channels faster than my 5100. If this is your first box to receive HD, that may explain why you feel there is a long delay, I was used to it from the 5100 so that may affect our points of reference.

Originally posted by dresf
I do not notice a big delay when changing channels, at first there was some delay, drops outs when changing channels, that was noticeable, but for sure not 3-5 sec's, maybe 1 sec. I attributed this to the disk write as well. I do not notice it now.
I feel the 6412 changes channels faster than my 5100. If this is your first box to receive HD, that may explain why you feel there is a long delay, I was used to it from the 5100 so that may affect our points of reference.

Tivo takes maybe a second to switch between channels. But the Tivo is part of DirecTv so the comparison isn't completely level.

In my opinion, I'd say the Tivo switches much faster than my 6208 with Gemstar/TV Guide. I think the Tivo software is fine tuned better than the TV Guide software. I feel that the 6208's processor is very fast so I'd have to attribute it to the software only.

I'd love to see someone out there put the Tivo software on a 6208 so we can see just how good it can be!

I know it breaks every rule under the sun, but it would be nice to see, wouldn't it. :)

Mark

Cox Communications claims that the FireWire port on the unit is active and if you know how you can use it. It is all the information they will tell me. Has anyone tried to use the port? Also if I was to plug a FireWire external drive into the port should the 6412 find it and use it to increase the recording time on the unit? Thanks for you help.

Hello,

The screenshots that I saw were very nice. They look identical to the Scientific Atlanta / Time Warner DVR I had in Raleigh, NC.

Recently moving to Atlanta, I signed up with Comcast only to find that their digital cable boxes (1661?) had ugly, hard-to-use interfaces especially when they were blanketed with advertisements in the menus and online guide.

It is because of these ads all over their menus that I am seriously considering going to DirecTV with a Tivo, but if there are no built-in advertisements, I will be willing to try the Comcast DVR.

Hey guys I don't post often but would like to chime in on the love for the 6412. As far as I'm concerned this unit is far from beta. This is my first DVR so maybe my opinions a bit exaggerated. I upgraded from a 2264(?) non-HD box, which as most people know, had an extremely slow tuner, slow to the pt. where you couldn't even channel surf. The 6412 , however, is a bit faster than satelite and channel surfing is def tolerable. I haven't had any hiccups whatsoever. So far, no problems with DVI but I'm not using it either because I get a much darker picture vs component on my Sony 51" CRT. The HD channels look absolutely awesome, especially compared to the compressed crap that came outta direct tv. And I don't have to switch to S-video for SD channels since the component outputs a better picture!

The only issue I have so far is:
When turning channels, I get a slight hiss. If anyone has satelite and gets poor reception during rain, thats the kinda hiss I'm talking about. I'm assuming its the hard drive doing a quick erase?

If anyone has any questions I'd be glad to answer.

James

Originally posted by willis
Hello,

The screenshots that I saw were very nice. They look identical to the Scientific Atlanta / Time Warner DVR I had in Raleigh, NC.

Recently moving to Atlanta, I signed up with Comcast only to find that their digital cable boxes (1661?) had ugly, hard-to-use interfaces especially when they were blanketed with advertisements in the menus and online guide.

It is because of these ads all over their menus that I am seriously considering going to DirecTV with a Tivo, but if there are no built-in advertisements, I will be willing to try the Comcast DVR.

Willis, I talked to Comcast last week and was told that their HD DVR is a Motorola "1100". I think this may be wrong and it really is a 6208. I live in Dunwoody and they said it is available now. It does have DVI and firewire, but I think only 1 tuner and an 80GB drive, so I don't think it is a 6412

I've been with BellSouth Entertainment for >8 years, but they tell me they currently have no plans for HD. I was one of the early adopters of the LG 3410A. Mine is stilll working, but I think I'll switch to Comcast.

Jim

There are several companies working on a dual tuner solution for this box. The stuff you're seeing now is single tuner software running on a dual tuner box. If you see firmware 8, that means single tuner only. Dual tuner is firmware 9 series. There's A LOT more to it than just lighting up the second tuner.

Well, I received the DVI cable today that I ordered from pacificcable.com (DVI-D dual link). I hooked everything up to my Mits 48413 and it isn't working right at all. If I set the box to 480p I can get something resembling a picture, but it's green and flickery. If I set the box to 1080, I get pink or green static and flickering. The picture only shows up very briefly every so often. This is the first time I've used the DVI input on the TV and the first time I've used the cable. Unfortunately, the cable box is the only component I have right now that has a dvi out. This means I can't do any trouble-shooting because I can't test anything independent of everything else. Help!

You've probably already done so but pull apart and reseat doth ends of the DVI. Also, power off and on the box. Hpefully one of these will do the trick.

Regards,
GoIrish

I had the same problem with a pacific cable....twice.
Each time they denied a cable issue making me flip for the freight both ways and they even charged me a 15% restocking fee.
No matter how much sweet talk I tried they were just too hard lined for my taste.

Had to call it quits with pacific cabel, I just can't afford to work with a vendor who won't work with me.

I ordered and recvd one from RAM that works fine.
Even it had a bit of the noise you mentioned at first.

I played with resolution settings and finally it snapped into shape and played right.

The RAM is a 23 ft run but the pacifics were only 16 ft and never did work right.
You may want to try another brand name.

back to the issue of the lag time in changing channels.
This past weekend I put a Samsung 351 terrestrial HD receiver in since our local cable co. only carries 1 local. ( I could go on and on)

The comparison between the OTA receiver and the new Motorola as far as speed in changing channels is very minute. The audio through the OTA signal is decidedly better. PQ is very close. Although I can only compare abc to abc. The other locals I dont get through cable.

Thanks for sharing those screen shots.

I'm currently a Time Warner L.A. customer and I have the Explorer 8000 box (non-HD DVR) which uses the same Passport Echo software. Having been an early adopter of Tivo, I was VERY pleased with how the Passport software basically mimics Tivo to a T. The only thing it doesn't have is Wishlists and Suggestions, which I used only sparingly anyways. It even allows you more recording options than Tivo (for example, on any series recording, you can pick the specific days it will record programs; with Tivo, it's all or nothing).

I'd love to see Comcast deploy that software on the 6412 but it seems they're married to either TV Guide (ack!) or Microsoft (???), so we'll have to wait and see I guess.

bfranci,

The ability to record only new episodes, and ignore repeat episodes, is Tivo's most popular feature. Has Pioneer added this functionality to Passport? It was missing from the last version I saw.

With the Passport SA8000, were you able to record only new episodes of the Sopranos, ER, and The West Wing, and have it ignore all the repeats and older episodes shown in the last year?

When you select "record all episodes" of the Tour de France, does it record one copy of day1, one copy of day2, one copy of day3, etc (as on the Tivo)? Or does it record all three repeats of day1, all three repeats of day2, all three repeats of day3, etc? The Tour de France is showing at different times next week, so a daily recording set for a specific time is obviously not going to work.

Episodic recording without first-run support borders on useless for many programs (ex: Stargate: SG1), where they will show repeats of older episodes throughout the week, including some on the same day, and several on other days in the same time slot as the new episodes. In the case of Stargate, they also also take occasional 'breaks' and show an older episode rather than a new episode. The ABC, CBS, NBC, and FOX networks take similar "breaks" from new episodes with their schedules; if the box can't differentiate between new episodes and repeats, you'll end up with a lot of episodes from previous seasons on your DVR.

Note the Microsoft DVR software will have this functionality; it will be able to differentiate between new episodes and older / repeat episodes. One record setting will be all that is necessary to record new episodes of that program shown in the future (2003, 2004, 2005, etc), just as on the Tivo. When the network re-run season starts, it should simply ignore those episodes like the Tivo. If you want to watch all episodes, and not just new ones, you'll have that choice too.

(for example, on any series recording, you can pick the specific days it will record programs; with Tivo, it's all or nothing).
Does the Passport software offer conflict management that lets you prioritize your shows? If you have three scheduled programs that conflict, does the SA8000 record the first two based on the priority you have set, and then record the third the next time it is showing (ex: at 3am) -- as the Tivo does?

The Tivo has always provided manual-timer options under the "Manual Record Time/Channel (http://www.pvrcompare.com/TivoManualRecordRepeat.jpg)" selection. That said, almost no one uses this feature because it's the "old" and inefficient way of doing things.

It's not clear whether the Microsoft DVR software has priority-based conflict management as part of its "Series Record" feature. This feature would allow the DVR to record two shows based on the priority order you have set, in the event that three shows conflict, and to record the third show at its next available show time (if there is one).

Passport software basically mimics Tivo to a TPerhaps the second most popular Tivo feature is the ability to skip commercials. Has Passport added a 30-sec skip button to skip commercials? Are you able to watch all network programs in 40-45 minutes with your SA8000?

I've heard that Passport may have that auto-skip back / time compensation on fast forward, so it skips back a little after you're done with fast forward at 20x and 60x speed, just like the Tivo. Is that true? If so, that would at least help with skipping commercials, unlike the SARA and TVGuide software which requires one to constantly rewind and instant replay to see what was missed after each commercial break.

Note the Microsoft software will not have 30-second skip enabled on Comcast systems. It may have the auto-skip back / time compensation on fast forward and rewind, although perhaps not with the initial software release.

The only thing it doesn't have is Wishlists and Suggestions, which I used only sparingly anyways.I never use suggestions, but do use wishlists for sports (i.e. to record all games of my favorite professional and collegiate teams, regardless of the date, time, and channel they are showing).

Has Pioneer added folders or groupings to their Passport software? So all weekly Redskins recordings are listed under a "Teams / Redskins" folder? And all Stargate: SG1 episode recordings are grouped in a "Stargate: SG1" folder, organized by date?

Based on current information, the Microsoft DVR software will not have the ability to automatically record all games of your favorite college and professional sports teams shown throughout the year, regardless of date, time and channel -- as on the Tivo. You'll have to schedule manual recordings for each game.

The Microsoft DVR software will support some form of grouping functionality, so if you have eight CSI episodes on your DVR, they'll be listed together. Hopefully, Microsoft's implemention will hide multiple episodes of a program until its name is selected--to prevent "clutter" on the list screen--like the Tivo.

Comcast - Union/Verona

Excellent post bfdtv.

Having the 6208 and wishing for the 6412 with anything but the Gemstar TV Guide software. Anyone that has the Gemstar TV Guide would love to have have some if not all of those Tivo features.

Here is my opinion, for what its worth and some "informational" links to see for yourself.

Worst to Best:

6. TV Guide Interactive - http://www.gemstartvguide.com/whatwedo/ipgproducts.asp http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/downloads/TVGuide_DVR_Manual.pdf Currently deployed in my area.

5. TV Guide Integrated "iGuide" - http://www.cablechannel.com/real/04NCTA_Aaron.html
(needs RealPlayer) Not released as far as I know. Adds the ability to watch TV while viewing the Guide. But, it is still time based and not name based so it is just a minor advance. To be rolled out by year end.

4. Passport Echo - http://www.pioneerbroadband.com/products/passportdct.asp
Unless I'm missing someting... It looks more like the iGude than Tivo.

3. Microsoft 1.7 - http://www.microsoft.com/tv/content/Solutions/Foundation/mstv_IPG_Overview.mspx
Hoping Comcast deploys this soon. But knowing Comcast, I doubt it.

2. ReplayTV**

1. Tivo**

** Stand alone units with no affiliation to Comcast. Could only hope that Comcast makes a deal or buys out one of these two.

Stick Moxi in there towards the top.

If you have a 6412 and Comcast, it's almost guaranteed you'll get the iGuide upgrade.

Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

I left Moxi out since the 6208 / 6408 / 6412 do not support Moxi. Moxi on Motorola is a separate BMC STB.

I do agree with you though, Moxi would be nice to have as well.

for motorola HD pvr users who have been reporting DVI failures, how common is this? i am running a 30' DVI connection from my 6208 to my projector and it works great, for the most part, even though i occasionally get small little green flicker lines that only last a split second.

anyone else get this? it seems to happen every few minutes.

[i]
anyone else get this? it seems to happen every few minutes. [/B]


My DVI connection works... if I unplug and plug back in the cable (dvi), or go thru some gymnastics with the on-off cycle. I have went back to component for the time being. But when watching thru the DVI on the 6412 I had no green flicky things or any other bugs to speak of.

I could tell no discernable difference between the PQ thru dvi or component and this is shot thru a high-end projector fwiw.

Thanks for ranking us #3. We're trying hard to move up the list.

We do support series priority management for automatic conflict resolution.

still i hoping they can get the MS software deployed soon, that or moxi. the iguide still looks terrible. why redesign a guide without adding the most popular features? still no recording by program and no progress bar. i'd be satisfied if we had at least those 2. does iguide even support dual recordings?

Originally posted by shannonv
Thanks for ranking us #3. We're trying hard to move up the list.

We do support series priority management for automatic conflict resolution.

shannonv
As far as the comcast (or even the entire MSO) market is concerned your probably already at #1 on that list...It looks like DNNA has thrown in the towel for future replay products that might fit the need and Tivo would need to pull a rabbit out of their hat sometime soon.

I'd consider Reardon Steel (loved that name when they were in stealth mode)..aka Moxi is your biggest competion (should have figured your biggest competion for the market would be funded by the ex-co founder of MS).

Good luck to you.. I sure hope you succeed...It really sucks being without a HD Timeshifting option in the Bay Area (I'm just crawling along with my old SD Replay)

-Steve

Originally posted by markjrenna
I left Moxi out since the 6208 / 6408 / 6412 do not support Moxi. Moxi on Motorola is a separate BMC STB.
Well, it's not as though we already own one of those Moto 6XXX boxes and need to shop for compatible software to run on it. Fundamentally, if Comcast offers Moxi in our area, we'll get it--and the Moto 9XXX box it runs on. Package deal.

still i hoping they can get the MS software deployed soon, that or moxi. the iguide still looks terrible. why redesign a guide without adding the most popular features? still no recording by program and no progress bar. i'd be satisfied if we had at least those 2. does iguide even support dual recordings?Yes it does support dual tuners, and no you probabably won't be able to get anything else from Comcast if you have a 6412.

Quicksilver or dresf,

I'm wondering if 6412 handles live TV the same way that the SA800 does. In most DVRs "live" isn't really live, but rather it's playing back from the hard drive. That's why you can pause it. SA8000 takes a different approach--live is really live until you try to pause it. Then it switches to the buffer. As I understand it the benefit of what SA does is that you can view analog channels without any extra artifacts caused by converting them to MPEG. The drawback is that when you do hit pause, there's a slight delay before it actually pauses--because you're actually switching from live to buffer.

Do you notice this delay when you hit pause in the 6412? With analog stations, do you see any PQ difference between live and watching delayed?

I'm wonderinf if 6412 handles live TV the same way that the SA8000 does.I think this all depends on the software.

The drawback is that when you do hit pause, there's a slight delay before it actually pauses--because you're actually switching from live to buffer
Yes, I do wish they would make this a little more seamless to eliminate this switching time. On my older SA8000HD SARA software, you hit instant replay on live programming and wait three, four, or five seconds for it to replay. :( The same goes for pause. The delay is a little shorter on the newer software.

On analog channels, it may make sense to keep content live by default with separate background buffering to a) maintain faster changing times, and b) higher picture quality without the re-compression.

However, the 8000HD should not do the same thing for digital and HD channels as it does now. It makes no sense. There is no quality loss involved in always playing from the buffer on digital and HD channels (because there's no re-encoding), and there is little or no difference in channel changing times with live vs buffered digital/HDTV streams. There is no reason for there to be a three second delay before pause or instant replay function takes effect on a HD channel, as is the case now. Scientific Atlanta needs to fix that.

The delay when I hit pause is very short. Less than 1 sec. And I have to account for some lag because I am shooting my remote at an IR repeater. When I press play the program resumes pretty stinkin quick, once again less than a second. When I get done foolin' around and hit live again, it is quick as well.

I really don't have any intelligent input to the above two posts but that is what is happening on my end.

I used to feel that the lag when I turned channels was due to a disk write delay, but after installing the Sammy 351 OTA reciever last weekend and being able to compare the channel change speed, I aint so sure. They are both neck and neck in speed.

IMHO you will never move past Tivo/Replay because you don't have the 30 second skip feature. Read posts from people that have either unit and it's one of the most important features (and it's my number 1 feature as well). Tivo doesn't advertise the feature and needs a code input through the remote to remap a remote key to 30 second skip, so I know you said in another thread that the MSOs won't allow this feature but Tivo has managed to get away with it.

John

Originally posted by shannonv
Thanks for ranking us #3. We're trying hard to move up the list.

We do support series priority management for automatic conflict resolution.

jcg, This feature has already been hacked on the 6208....for anyone interested do a search in this forum.

It's on the 6208 but that doesn't use Microsoft's SW. The 6412 with Microsoft doesn't have the feature and supposedly won't.

John

Originally posted by Scotty6595
jcg, This feature has already been hacked on the 6208....for anyone interested do a search in this forum.

On the 6208 there was "supposedly" no ability for 30 sec skip..... All I am saying is that with the vast accumilated knowledge on this and other forums I would expect it to take all of one month after the 6412 hits the streets for a hack to be published on this forum.... Never say Never, it just makes people work that much harder to prove you wrong....:)

And let me just add that as far as a comparison goes Tivo will always win with functionality...but for us people that can't afford the HD Tivo or choose not to use it for what ever reason we will hack and hack and hack our current systems to give us the functionality that the cable co's and mfg's deem we shouldn't have the ability to use. By the way are you certain that the 6412 will come with MS software? It was my under standing that this box may hit the streets with as many as three different types of SW.....May be wrong about that, to many threads ago.....

Scotty

Scotty,

Someone from Microsoft working on this software specifically indicated that this functionality wouldn't be available with a hidden workaround. They are doing this at cable's request.

Comcast's plan, as of a few months ago, was to deploy the 6412 with either the TVGuide software or the Microsoft software. Your division would determine which one -- based on a number of considerations, functionality only being one of them. Some other MSOs will deploy it with the Pioneer Passport software --- as was the case for the first poster in this thread.

IMHO you will never move past Tivo/Replay because you don't have the 30 second skip feature. Read posts from people that have either unit and it's one of the most important features (and it's my number 1 feature as well). Tivo doesn't advertise the feature and needs a code input through the remote to remap a remote key to 30 second skip, so I know you said in another thread that the MSOs won't allow this feature but Tivo has managed to get away with itThere's also the 1.2 to 1.5 million DVRs that Dish Network will have deployed by year's end --- every one has a 30-sec button enabled on the remote by default.

I think if Microsoft adds auto skip back (also known as time compensation) in combination with faster RW speeds (say 15-20x and 60x), that will help to reduce the need for the 30-sec skip function. Many people even prefer this functionality to 30-sec skip on the Tivo. Shannon has implied that Microsoft is looking at this feature for the 6412, even if it won't ship in the initial software version for that platform.

With auto skip back, you can fast forward through the commercials at 20x or 60x, hit play (or FF a fourth time) after the program begins, and it will automatically skip back a little so you catch the last second or two of commercials -- with no rewinding or replay necessary to catch the start of the program after the commercial break.

This functionality does require a lot of testing to get "right." Tivo has refined this functionality several times with different versions (first it was not sensitive enough, then it was too sensitive) and now it is just about perfect. I have heard that Pioneer may have an implementation of this feature on their Passport software, though I don't know how well it works.

No doubt, many users of the Tivo, ReplayTV, and especially Dish DVRs rely on 30-sec skip functionality to skip commercials every day -- to watch one-hour network programs in 40-45 minutes. Without such a button, I think many / most users will at least give fast forward a try. If FF works well enough for the same purpose (i.e. no need to constantly rewind or instant replay to see program content right after the commercial break ends), then I think most of these users will be satisfied. If FF does not work very well for this purpose -- as is the case of the current TVGuide (6208) and SARA (SA8000HD) software -- then these customers may look to alternatives once they become available.

Originally posted by mktgMaven
Quicksilver or dresf,

I'm wondering if 6412 handles live TV the same way that the SA800 does. In most DVRs "live" isn't really live, but rather it's playing back from the hard drive. That's why you can pause it. SA8000 takes a different approach--live is really live until you try to pause it. Then it switches to the buffer. As I understand it the benefit of what SA does is that you can view analog channels without any extra artifacts caused by converting them to MPEG. The drawback is that when you do hit pause, there's a slight delay before it actually pauses--because you're actually switching from live to buffer.

Do you notice this delay when you hit pause in the 6412? With analog stations, do you see any PQ difference between live and watching delayed?

On my end I'm not experiencing any 'lagtime' between pausing and livetime, maybe a second or two max. Also, theres absolutley zero PQ difference between live and delayed watching, on either analog or digital stations.

One of the best things about this baby is SD actually looks awesome on component and I can switch stretch modes, unlike my old Toshiba DST-3000 for direct tv, which looked horrible on component and always locked into full mode.

However, there are a couple of nitpicks since I've had it for a couple of weeks now. I'm new to the whole DVR thing and not sure if Tivo did, but it doesn't allow manual recording like a VCR. For example Six Feet Under ends a full 10 minutes before the hour but you can't 'tell' it when to stop. Also, you can't tell it to record a couple of minutes before the show begins so it will sometimes miss the beginning or end of a show, which it has done a few times.

Quick:

I am pretty sure that you can set up a manual recording. I got myself on a screen that gave "Setup Manual recording" somehow. I am at work right now and can't retrieve it from my memory but fool around a little bit and I think you will find it.

Sure wish there was an instruction manual with this thing!!

The second Comcast wants to support a skip trick, we can enable it. It's easy. We've also done response correction on UTV several years back. Neither of these is new.

Originally posted by dresf
Quick:

I am pretty sure that you can set up a manual recording. I got myself on a screen that gave "Setup Manual recording" somehow. I am at work right now and can't retrieve it from my memory but fool around a little bit and I think you will find it.

Sure wish there was an instruction manual with this thing!!

Yeah it allows manual recording when your recording at that exact moment the show is playing, but not for future shows. The only options are when to end a show, which is either at the end of the show, or hours after its ended, not minutes before it ends. Of course, none of this will matter once they upgrade to dual tuning.

Originally posted by shannonv
There are several companies working on a dual tuner solution for this box. The stuff you're seeing now is single tuner software running on a dual tuner box. If you see firmware 8, that means single tuner only. Dual tuner is firmware 9 series. There's A LOT more to it than just lighting up the second tuner. On Comcast boxes, there is one version number for "firmware" and a differnt one for "software". "Software" is purely the EPG as I understand it and "firmware" is for more basic functions of an STB such as activating firewire and DVI. Is this correct?

Do both the firmware and the software need to be revised to allow dual tuner functionality?

And does the same company (e.g., TV Guide, Passport, or Microsoft TV) do both the software and firmware for any given box, or does one usually do the software (e.g., TV Guide for the 6208) and another do the firmware (e.g., Motorola)?

Does Motorola always write the firmware? If so, why would it ship a dual tuner STB without having a dual tuner capable firmware (albeit waiting for Passport to complete the dual tuner capable software)?

speaking of firmware, how can i get Comcast to force a firmware upgrade to 7.10 on my 6208 while i wait for 6412's to come to atlanta?

right now both of my boxes are running 7.07 but since i will be doing some firewire recording soon i want (and need) 7.10. they ping'd my boxes today but they're still at 7.07

thanks

Topics like this are why I still get a charge out of AVS.

Because the rest of the time it's totally annoying? :)

Originally posted by coverup
I had the same problem with a pacific cable....twice.
Each time they denied a cable issue making me flip for the freight both ways and they even charged me a 15% restocking fee.
No matter how much sweet talk I tried they were just too hard lined for my taste.

Had to call it quits with pacific cabel, I just can't afford to work with a vendor who won't work with me.

I ordered and recvd one from RAM that works fine.
Even it had a bit of the noise you mentioned at first.

I played with resolution settings and finally it snapped into shape and played right.

The RAM is a 23 ft run but the pacifics were only 16 ft and never did work right.
You may want to try another brand name.

Well, before I read this I went ahead and order a 3m single link from Pacific to see if it made any difference. It didn't, and I still haven't been able to use the DVI on this thing. Thanks to your post, these cables are going back and I'll probably try once more with RAM. If I still have a problem, I'll assume the problem is with one of the components. Of course, Cox has never called me back with some help on this issue as they promised. Big surprise!

Brett:

Have you tried the unplug re-plug with the dvi?

There is not a quick fix on the horizon, I'd guess fall at the earliest for a dvi fix and I am optimistic that the dual tuner will be functional then though.

I think that in the entire state of kansas that there are probably not more than 5 people who are trying to get the dvi working, and all 5 have posted here. The tech I spoke with said he had not had many calls on it.

Again, I can not see too much PQ difference between component and DVI so I have went entirely to component and am using my 2 DVI's for my OTA receiver and a DVD player now which have no problems at all.

Within the last day or two, it appears that there have been some improvements made to the 6412. The firmware still says 8.03, but I do have the ability to record First Run episodes, or all episodes and can set the DVR to start early and end late, this is only thru the "Series Manager" as far as I can tell. It also gives the options of recording the series on certain day/(s) of the week, week-days, weekends...

Dual tuner is not functional...yet, but wondering out loud how I'll know when it is other than when I am recording something and try to turn the channel without the warning box to stop the recording??

Originally posted by dresf
Within the last day or two, it appears that there have been some improvements made to the 6412. The firmware still says 8.03, but I do have the ability to record First Run episodes, or all episodes and can set the DVR to start early and end late, this is only thru the "Series Manager" as far as I can tell. It also gives the options of recording the series on certain day/(s) of the week, week-days, weekends...

Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

What cable company and what software is on your STB?

Originally posted by markjrenna
What cable company and what software is on your STB? The answer is above, just read the entire thread. No need to repeat information that's already been spelled out clearly.

Has anyone noticed the guide displaying incorrect info? I was watching this really bad b movie called Ricochet that starred Denzel Washington and noticed the guide was describing a totally different movie with casting credits for that other movie. This has happened on a few occasions. Anyone else notice this problem?

James

Unnecessary comments deleted.

I hope when Comcast does distribute the 6412 the dual-tuner function is working. I guess the IGuide is better than what we have now and maybe the SD picture quality will be better and more hard drive is always good, but the dual-tuner is what I really would like. It would be great to have when the Olympics start, since my wife will not want to watch them but she does like many other shows on DiscoveryHD, PBSHD, INHD1&2.

I'm just so glad I have the ability to record in HD now, and the future is definitely looking better. Now if Comcast could just add more stuff for these DVRs to record, (oops, sorry, wrong thread!).

Rich N.

James:

I have not noticed any problems with the guide. The operative word here is "noticed". I use it pretty intensively though. I do know that there has been lots of signal noise in the NW part of town and we have had intermittent outages and really poor internet speed lately-may be related?

Ken, have any of your sources indicated when this might be available in Detroit (Comcast)?

Originally posted by dresf
James:

I have not noticed any problems with the guide. The operative word here is "noticed". I use it pretty intensively though. I do know that there has been lots of signal noise in the NW part of town and we have had intermittent outages and really poor internet speed lately-may be related?

Yeah, I recently posted on the cable vs sat about how I never experienced outtages with cable but it finally happened for an entire day about a couple of weeks ago. But I think the guide problem may have something to do with the signal. I lost the entire guide for about a day once.
When I first got digital cable I noticed a few digital channels would break up or not come in at all so I called a tech over and he said my line was weak and he couldnt anything about it because he would have to 'fishwall' which he wasn't allowed to do. He did offer a 50 dollar amp to boost the entire house, which I went ahead and installed and bought myself off of amazon (the motorola signal booster) which has worked wonders but not entirely fixed the problems.
Alot of times I will turn to a channel and it says subscription needed. Then I just turn the box off and on and it will come on. Or on HD channels I will sometimes get major tiling and breaking up especially when the picture needs major bandwidth and/or sound. A good example are the movie trailers played on INHD. The funny thing though, all I have to do is hit the 8 second rewind and not watch in 'real-time' and problem solved. Same goes for recorded HD. Odd huh?

James:

you describe my problems to a "T". If they figure you out post the fix, I"ll do the same

Did you notice any dvr upgrades this week in regard to first run v. re-runs and options to start early/end late via the "Series Manager"? I am almost positive these are recent upgrades. Am I wrong?

Out

eric

Originally posted by dresf
James:

you describe my problems to a "T". If they figure you out post the fix, I"ll do the same

Did you notice any dvr upgrades this week in regard to first run v. re-runs and options to start early/end late via the "Series Manager"? I am almost positive these are recent upgrades. Am I wrong?

Out

eric

Are you talking about the channel breakup? Your experiencing this too? Maybe the 6412 has a weak tuner because with the old non HD box, the 2264, I never had channels that said subcription needed. As for upgrades I don't play with the series manager much since there isn't much to record right now. But as far as options to start early/end late I noticed those since I got the box so I would say no upgrade. I remember one time the box rebooted itself and I thought maybe they applied a new firmware but I don't know how to check. Have you contacted Cox and asked when they were planning to upgrade to dual tuning?

I am talking about the channel breakup/brief pixelization, and the subscription messages now and then. I checked the firmware and it is still 8.03. You may check firmware by turning box off, then pressing select within 2 seconds (I think) then scroll down the options I forget which one gives the firmware version.
I have a secret agent at cox and they felt it would be fall at earliest for dual tuner functionality.

October is the roll-out date for the TVGuide iGuide software (w/dual-tuner support), which is why Comcast hasn't deployed the 6412 yet.

Can you do PIP with the 6412? I guess this would require two signals out of the 6412 into TV?

No it will not do PIP right now. I do not know if that function will work once the dual tuner becomes a reality, but there are PIP buttons on the remote. There has been no promises or marketing in our area regarding the PIP.


eric

Do you know if the composite or S-Video outputs are live at all times? If you have, say, 1080i out of your component or DVI output feeding an HD TV or projector, can you simultaneously get a 480i signal for an SD TV out of composite or S-Video?

Yes, you get simultaneous video output that is downscaled on s-video and composite. However, OSD (user interface) will not render on them if the box is tuned to a high definition channel or is set to 4:3 override OFF or 480p.

This is function of the hardware and moto firmware so its behavior will be the same on all moto 6412s running the same firmware version.

I get periodic "subscription needed" errors on the 6200. They happen, although rare in general.

Originally posted by murphyb74
Can you do PIP with the 6412? I guess this would require two signals out of the 6412 into TV?
The remote I got from Cox has the PIP buttons on it and the COX user guide says they are "reserved for future use".
I had a dual tuner PVR for my DirecTV and it had PIP in the PVR. The combined picture is created in the PVR and passed to the the TV along with the audio of the primary picture. The TV has no idea it is getting a PIP display.
Until dual tuner is implemented along hopefully with PIP my workaround is to split the incoming cable between the 6412 and the tuner input on my TV and then I use the PIP function on the TV.

It would be nice to have PIP functionality built-in to the PVR. I hope they enable this when they implement 2nd tuner support.
On my Toshiba RPTV, and probably some other HD displays, the TV's internal PIP functions are disabled on component and DVI inputs.

On my Samsung HLP the primary has to be OTA analog but the Pip can be from any source.

Okay, ran into a possible issue today. My previous macros for the remote always powered off the 6412 when I shut down the PJ and the rest of the equipment which would render my scheduled recordings void. Apparently a scheduled recording does not "wake up" the box. So I had the macro changed to leave the box always on. After recording a program last night with the rest of the system off the box shut itself down which makes no sense to me. Anyone else experience this or have an explanation.

I was in error the secondary also has to be from an analog 480 i source not from Component or DVI.

Not sure about the 6412 but the 6208 will wake itself up when powered down for a scheduled recording.... If they did take out that feature I would have to say "THAT SUCKS !

I will do some more investigating but last night it did not power down after the scheduled recording. I have noticed that occasionally ( less than once a week) that the box resets itself or something and this ends up powering it down, perhaps this was the culprit. I will also check to see if it powers up to record a scheduled program tonight

my 6208 has been randomly powering off A LOT lately. it has to re-acquire the guide every time.

Last night I powered off the 6412, it woke up, recorded correctly, then powered off. So there must be a random power off. Maybe ET is phoning home?

The Motorola boxes tend to need to reacquire the guide info after even a short brownout, so I connected mine to a UPS. Haven't had a problem since.

so are the 6212's about to be rolled out to the general public yet?

Originally posted by oleus
so are the 6212's about to be rolled out to the general public yet?

a couple cable co's have rolled them out already...Comcast has not.

Don't expect them for at least another couple months from Comcast.

Comcast NJ - Union/Verona

I was told by Comcast to check back in December or January for the 6412. They had no idea which giude would be on it. But I have to disappointingly assume it is the new iGuide coming this or next month.

When in October is the software with dual tuner support coming out? My wife won't be a happy camper if she has to watch the sports game when I'm at school and American Idol is on. In fact, I'll bet that the first time it happened, the DCT6412 would be on its way back to cox.

I do not think that there is a date at least here in Wichita, just something in the fall was the word. I am not holding my breath.

Originally posted by dresf
Okay, ran into a possible issue today. My previous macros for the remote always powered off the 6412 when I shut down the PJ and the rest of the equipment which would render my scheduled recordings void. Apparently a scheduled recording does not "wake up" the box. So I had the macro changed to leave the box always on. After recording a program last night with the rest of the system off the box shut itself down which makes no sense to me. Anyone else experience this or have an explanation.

I also macro my remote to shut everthing off including the box whenever I'm not watching it. BUT, I haven't missed a single recording because of it. I was wondering tho, have you noticed a slight hiss (hard to describe) whenever turning channels?? Also, I might be imagining this but I've been recording anything Six Feet Under and noticed one night that a show was recorded even though I didn't schedule it to. It turns out it automatically did a 'season pass' where it recorded it anytime the show was on. Either the passport software is more "tivo-ish" than I thought OR I accidentally hit the record entire series on the previous recording. Does anyone know if the passport software is even capable or smart enough to do this?

Oh, and I called Cox the beginning of August to get rid of Starz. Anyways, I asked when they would be upgrading the passport software for dual tuners and the rep said in a few weeks. I'm hoping that means by the end of September but I'm guessing "in a few weeks" means months.

Powering off the box has no effect on scheduled recordings... it just has to be plugged in of course... this is one of the first things I tried with the 6412 and can confirm for sure it will still record whatever is scheduled. The Passport software does have a series record option similar to Season Pass. Also, after scheduling a recording you can go back to list of scheduled recordings and adjust several options on them such as priorities, pre and post padding, particular channel or any channel, particular days of the week, etc.

I suspect that your power off problems stems from the way that Moto handles standby. The system cannot maintain a recording when transitioning in or out of standby so each ISV did something a little different to deal with this. MS FE 1.7 has a "pseudo-standby" mode designed to make it act like standby in every way so there should be no end-user impact (as long as you don't plan on going to the moto diagnostics screens or video output menus).

It's little things like this that oftentimes are critical for people who have lived with DVR for a while but don't get considered by many who don't use the product but make the decisions.

Check out this link: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=76341&p=irol-newsArticle_other&t=Regular&id=611110&


It appears that we may be rolling soon, although as of noon CST today I had not recieved the upgrade.

It appears that we may be rolling soon, although as of noon CST today I had not recieved the upgrade.

I've done some checking and it looks like the upgrade isn't going to be happening any second now. Apparently there are some issues that, although minor, still need to be resolved. It will, however, be sooner rather than later.

I'll bet that their problems stem from the fact that to record two shows while watching a previously recorded one, would be close to the hard drive's physical speed limit. Especially if you consider HD format. That drive is IDE based. IDE's problem is that it can either record or read at any one time. It can not do both.

I wish that they could at least give us the ability to watch a live show while recording another and worry about all that other stuff later. As it is right now, I can't record any sports shows cause my wife won't be able to watch TV.

Awesome! Thanks for posting the press release. I thought for sure that it would be awile yet before we saw the 2 tuner capability. That "on-screen keyboard" search will be nice too. I don't know if other people are using the title search, but right now it's not the best. You can only narrow things by first letter and then have to scroll to find the show. That can get pretty tiresome in a letter like "p," for instance, which has a thousand entries for "paid program." The "enhanced recording options" sound like what we have now, though, except maybe the recording after a show has started. Can we already do that?

I don't think the press release was intended to say that the upgrade would be rolling immediately, but here in ICT I am thinking perhaps very early morning Sunday, just a theory. That is typically when new service or channels are added and Sunday Sept. 12th is the day that we get Fox on the HD tier. But I have just heard that someone was told that it would be in the next 2-4 weeks:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4326304#post4326304

I was told that we'll know when the upgrade happens. Cox will send out some sort of letter notifying us of the upgrade before it happens. I don't know whether or not the letter will give an actual date, but it will give us a better of idea of when to start being anxious.

"Cox will send out some sort of letter notifying us"

Gosh, that'd be a first. But I'd rather just be surprised. Half the fun is the agony of anticipation

Here's the latest on my dvi problem I posted about earlier in this thread. Yesterday I received a new 15ft. cable from Blue Jeans Cable after returning a 15ft. and 10ft. cables to Pacific Cable. I had to pull the TV (Mits 48413) out a bit further from the wall in order to get everything hooked up. I turned everything on, and I finally had a picture over DVI resembling something usuable. It happened to be on an analog channel, so it looked like crap, but at least it wasn't green and full of static. I was feeling pretty good as I shut everything off again and moved the TV back into proper position. Then the green static returned! As it turns out, I guess I didn't have the cable set quite right in the TV input. I don't know how everyone else's TVs are, but there seems to be a lot of flex and play on how the DVI cable fits. On my second attempt I was able to get the two screws fully into position whereas they just didn't seem to want to go on my first attempt. Now I'm thinking that maybe my whole problem with the first cables were user error, although I'm amazed that after as many times as I unplugged and re-plugged them to try and fix the problems that at no time were they ever right. I guess the lesson to all is to really check those connections if you're having DVI problems, even though I thought I had repeatedly :) !

As far as the pic quality, I definitely notice a difference. I have applied the same user and PerfectColor settings derived via Avia on my DVD component input to the component and DVI inputs for the cable box. The DVI connection has a very noticible differenence in red. It was also several notches brighter resulting in an initially washed-out picture. I dropped the brightness a few notches and it seems to be much better. It might also be slightly sharper. As I said, the TV settings are the same, so this has to be a result of either the different connection or the cheap component cables. I'm using the cables on the 6412 that were provided by Cox, and they're probably about 10-12ft. I'm hoping this weekend to do a comparison with my AR Master series cables that are currently on the dvd player.

One thing I haven't figured out is how these two components are/aren't interacting. I get the DVI connection working and then turn everything off. At this point I can turn either component on first and everything still works fine. However, the last couple of times I've turned everything off and gone away for several hours, it seems as though they've had a fight at some point and are no longer on speaking terms :D. It's happened about 3 times, and I've been able to get things flowing again by pushing the menu button while the 6412 is off (which gives you the screen where you set TV type, scanning rate, etc.) I haven't tried it yet with only the DVI connected. Is it possible that the 6412 recognizes the component connection and defaults to it? In the mean time I'm going to go back and try to re-read the comments from other 6412 DVI users, and hope that Cox will include a DVI tweak with the dual tuner software.

Originally posted by oleus
for motorola HD pvr users who have been reporting DVI failures, how common is this? i am running a 30' DVI connection from my 6208 to my projector and it works great, for the most part, even though i occasionally get small little green flicker lines that only last a split second.

anyone else get this? it seems to happen every few minutes.

I just got my DVI connection working, but I've noticed these horizontal green flickers every once and awhile over my component connection. I always attributed it to digital glitching in the signal more than a problem in the connection between the 6412 and the display.

Originally posted by dresf
I am talking about the channel breakup/brief pixelization, and the subscription messages now and then. I checked the firmware and it is still 8.03. You may check firmware by turning box off, then pressing select within 2 seconds (I think) then scroll down the options I forget which one gives the firmware version.
I have a secret agent at cox and they felt it would be fall at earliest for dual tuner functionality.

I get this "subscription needed" error fairly regularly. It always happens on the HD channels, and I can usually get things working by changing channels and waiting for a second while things seem to "catch up." Occasionally I also get just a black screen when I power on the unit and it was last on an HD channel.

Originally posted by Brett Miles

One thing I haven't figured out is how these two components are/aren't interacting. I get the DVI connection working and then turn everything off. At this point I can turn either component on first and everything still works fine. However, the last couple of times I've turned everything off and gone away for several hours, it seems as though they've had a fight at some point and are no longer on speaking terms :D. It's happened about 3 times, and I've been able to get things flowing again by pushing the menu button while the 6412 is off (which gives you the screen where you set TV type, scanning rate, etc.) I'm having this problem too and it appears to be a known bug. Like you, bringing up the menu when 6412 is off fixes the problem, but doing this kills anything that may be currently recording - and by kill I mean it doesn't even save the program to that point - just throws it away. This is very annoying since it makes watching a program while it's still recording impossible once I have turned the TV off. The problem is still there regardless if component connection is also active or not. I'm hoping the dual tuner upgrade will somehow fix this, but not holding my breath. I would suggest you contact your Cox tech support and report the problem as they don't seem to think this is a widespread issue. There's nothing they can do about it themselves, but if they get enough complaints hopefully this will help expedite a fix for the problem.

As a matter of fact, this is a well known problem. But there are not too many people who are using the DVI input, which in my opinion is not really the issue. My spies tell me that the DVI issue is being earnestly worked on, but to fix it correctly requires input from Motorola, pioneer, and the cable provider, and having all of the software sync together is more of an issue than we feel it is.
My opinion: given the numbers and the demand, the dual tuner and some enhanced functionality is priority

On the more bad news side: The DVI fix IS NOT in the dual tuner upgrade. 1stQ-2005 is expected to be the soonest.

I just got my 6412. I had no problems with the DVI output into an NEC HT1000 projector.

Firmware 8.03 does not seem to be well-suited for DVHS VCRs. On the JVC 40K, the Showtime HD picture tends to go in-and-out (i.e. gray screen periodically) - HBO HD looks OK (but Sho HD is fine with the 6200's 1394 output).

The Mits 1100U, which worked fine on the latest firmware version of the 6200, has problems on the 6412 too. I am keeping my 6200 for now and hoping the next 6412 firmware may fix these glitches. Right now, the 6412 is not stable for the 1394 output.

that's bad news about the DVI problem...when my 6208 got the 7.15 upgrade my DVI stopped working because my projector wasn't HDCP compliant....had to send the projector in for an upgrade....unless the 6212's have functioning dvi outputs i doubt i'll request an upgrade until they have that fixed....

very disappointing. once you get used to DVI on a large display it's hard to go back!!!

oleus,

for some reason, on the Motorola boxes, 1080i component vs. 1080i DVI is very close for many of us - assuming a calibrated display. In my setup, the DVI picture is not better than component. DVI, though, is much better for DVD players.

on a 106" screen, i saw a pretty big jump in picture quality going from component to DVI with my 6208. maybe if i spent a fortune on component cables things would get better but i sensed an overall rise in detail, picture depth, and color purity using DVI as opposed to component.

i can't imagine that the differences would be that big on 40"-60" sets, though.

Dual Tuner Enabled in TX

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=445341

Well, I had to call Cox Tech Support Sat. night because the 6412 wasn't working right - anytime I changed channels, I'd get a black screen w/no audio (but the Guide overlay showing the Channel #/Show name/etc. showed fine..)

While on the phone, I asked about the upgrade, and the guy looked up my area (CT) and said Tuesday night (Wed. AM, really) for the upgrade here.

Now, I just got an official Cox email announcing the upgrade, and it says it'll happen Thursday AM (1:00AM-5:00AM) for us. It also says the same thing the guy told me - any scheduled recordings during that time won't happen - and also to make sure you have at least 5 hours free space for the upgrade, or they'll forcefully remove shows to make room.

Now, the irony is how am I supposed to know how much room I have left - unlike the ReplayTV, there's no indication of used/free space on this thing!! [Or am I missing something??]

Oh, back to the cable-box problem:

One thing I should mention is that when I turned on the box on Saturday morning, it said that it had run out of Disk space...

Well, prior to noticing I couldn't tune channels that night, I had watched/removed a bunch of shows, so there was now free space - Therfore, one would think the black screen problem was not lack of disk space for the "live buffer"..

Well, Sat. night we watched the "Medical Investigations" show that was the last thing to successfully tape before the box said it ran out of free space..

Weird thing: The show is an hour long, but the recording showed it was 6:28 long!! Especially since I was recording the HD version, that's ALOT of space!

I even FFWDed after the show was over, and sure enough, it DID record 5.5 hrs extra.

I'm baffled why. :confused:

Anyways, after deleting this "extra-long" show the cable-box started working fine again, so it must have not have had the room for the live buffer, causing the issue - even though I had deleted other shows to make room.

Not sure if this qualifies as a "bug" (after all, it DID have free space elsewhere on the drive) but it definitely qualifies as "strange" and poor error-handling.

Of course, now I'm trying to decide whether to cancel the Service appt. tomorrow morning, or let the guy come and use it to complain about the poor signal issues we have - even after the last guy installed an amp (at a charge) it's still not as good as it should be..



--Walburga

Is there really no used/free space indicator? Yikes! In talking with Cox CSRs a minute ago, she mentioned that in the next 30 days they were releasing an upgrade that would make the guide more user friendly. Not sure if this is the same update you mentioned or not, or if it will include the usage numbers.

I found a work around to the RWD to beginning of live buffer bug.

Note: The bug is that if you try to skip back in 15 min. intervals to the beginning it'll instantly jump to the end (live).

If you go into your recorded programs and watch a few seconds of recorded programing, and then return to live TV it'll let you jump 15 minutes back no problem...

weird...

I had the Motorola DCT6412 box installed last night. For the little time I could play with it, the recording quality is outstanding in HD and the new menu is pretty nice. We’ll get a lot of use out of it. Mr’s R wants all the Big Brother episodes and The Survivor show is about to start.

One disappointment was that even though there are two tuners, I could not watch one program while recording another. A call to Cox Cable tells me that the dual tuner feature will be activated, tomorrow (Sep 15th).

A question? It tried to up-convert the SD 480i signal to either 480p, 720p, or 1080i and there was no effect. My Mits still read a 480i signal. I have component connections, the cable installer had no idea what DVI was.

Is it as simple as going to “settings” and selecting the higher signals or is there something else I need to do?

Bob, the 6412 will not upconvert a 480i signal...it will only send HD signals to your television at the resolution you set (720p or 1080i). Basically, all SD channels will be sent to the tv as 480i, while the HD channels are configureable between 720p and 1080i.

It also looks like the 2nd tuner is being activated across the country this week...Orange County was supposed to be on the 13th (still have to verify), and it looks like the east coast is getting the software on the 15th or so.

Steve

My install is set for Oct. 1. Cox in Manchester CT told me they are holding new installs until then to get all the boxes installed with the latest firmware before the roll them out. Ah well, I can be patient.

Bob,
Like the 6200 I had before, the 6412 does not do a good job with SD programming. You get a lot of "snow". I connected a composite video cable from the 6412 to my TV and it looks a little better. I also have the cable split and going directly into the analog tuner on the TV. This seams to give me the best analog picture.

Cox does not supply firewire or dvi cables. If you want a digital connection you have to supply your own cable and hook it up yourself. I have firewire connected to my Mitz and the PQ is great ... only no on screen menus or guide.

Cox supports tells me the dual tuner firmware upgrade is going to happen around midnight tonight. We will see in the AM.

Allen

Originally posted by Bob R
I had the Motorola DCT6412 box installed last night. For the little time I could play with it, the recording quality is outstanding in HD and the new menu is pretty nice.

Well,

For both HD channels and regular digital channels, the box just writes the raw bitstream to the harddrive, so you get a bit-for-bit copy of what you see "live".

Since digital and HD chasnnels already use MPEG2 compression, the box doesn't need to do anything.. It's only for the Analog channels (<100) that the box needs to encode the video/audio before writing to disk.

That the advantage of the 6412 over my ReplayTV - for digital/HD channels, the 6412 looks MUCH better (no re-encoding done).

My one problem with the menu is only have 5 channels listed at a time vs. 7 with the old guide - means it takes longer (more keypresses) to scroll through the list.

The one short cut I've noticed is that pressing "A" while in the guide quick-skips to the next X00 channel (IE: you're on channel 161, A will cycle to 200, then 300, then 500, then 600, then 700, 900, 2, 100, 200, ...).

Just wish there was a button to go BACKwards as well.. but still much faster than pageup/down, and easier (to me) than using the number pad.

Upgrade set for tomorrow night here in CT, per the email I got.. But tech person said tonight.. who knows.. either way, RSN :D

--Walburga

Walburga, let me know how it goes ;). You're in much the same boat I will be. I'm replacing my Replays with this box.

Originally posted by schung07
Bob, the 6412 will not upconvert a 480i signal...it will only send HD signals to your television at the resolution you set (720p or 1080i). Basically, all SD channels will be sent to the tv as 480i, while the HD channels are configureable between 720p and 1080i.



If you set the 4:3 Override to OFF, then all the SD (analog and digital) will be converted to whatever resolution you configure.

I tried again, and now I have the "standard" settings at 480p and the wide screen at 1080i. No improvement on channels under 99, but 100+ seemed pretty good.

Again, only a short time. It's fun to play with new gear, isn't it?

Nice shortcut, Walburga. I'll try it.

Oh, dbrouda. I'll try the 4:3 overide next!

Thanks, guys. :D

Originally posted by schung07
...It also looks like the 2nd tuner is being activated across the country this week...Orange County was supposed to be on the 13th (still have to verify), and it looks like the east coast is getting the software on the 15th or so.

No upgrade yet in Orange County, CA... The only place I've heard of getting the upgrade yet is CT. Perhaps OC, CA will get it tonight :)


BTW, I reported earlier on a work around to the "can't skip to begining" of live buffer... well it only works "some of the time"...

Cox CT upgrade came down last night. My 6412 now has both tuners active and I can select "Only first run" for series recording. I did not have time to do much testing this morning ... will do some tonight.

Firmware version is 9.11

Allen

Originally posted by apaulct
Cox CT upgrade came down last night. My 6412 now has both tuners active and I can select "Only first run" for series recording. I did not have time to do much testing this morning ... will do some tonight.

Firmware version is 9.11

Allen

I didn't get a chance to check our box this morning before having to run out the door to work. :(

But, if you got it, I'm sure we did too then! :D

However, I know we already had "Only First run" as an option before.. I've been using it for some shows.

BTW: How did you tell what firmware it has? I've read to press menu when the box is off, but when i do that i just get an on-screen message that says something like "To turn on the cable-box, please use the Power button". I also get that when I hit any other button besides power when it's off...

--Walburga

Walburga,

To get to the diagnostic menu on the 6412 turn the box off then within 2 seconds press select twice. This will bring you to various diagnostic submenus. d08 is the software menu. other things you can see on the menus are cable signal strength, error counts, hard drive space, etc. I think you must be connected to the component output to see the diagnostics ... I have tried with a firewire connection and did not get a display.

Allen

Hmmm,

Will have to try that when I get home tonight! :D

BTW: I read in another forum that someone claimed to have been able to connect an external USB HD to his 6208 successfully (by formatting the drive through linux first or something..)

Has anyone tried this with a 6412 yet? I'm already running into HD space issues! 12 Hrs of HD is NOT enough space. LOL. ;)

Never had this problem with my 5040 upgraded to 200GB. Of course, I'm not recording HD on the Replay either.. :p

--Walburga

Has anyone that received the 2 tuner software noticed if it also fixed any of the glitches reported in this thread ("subscription needed," DVI, problem with FF when a show while it is still recording)? On a similar note, does anyone in KS have a phone number for a compentent technical person at COX that I can contact to report these errors? I decided yesterday I'd call the regular number and report them just on the off chance the comments will find there way to someone that can do something. I also asked when we'd be getting the 2 tuner software. The rep was predicatably clueless on both and fed me the usual diversionary non-answers. Oh, and he did the ol' box reset, which seems to be their cure-all for everything :D .

Walburga, I'd love to see where someone claimed they got the USB to work. I just don't buy it ;).

Originally posted by madpoet
Walburga, I'd love to see where someone claimed they got the USB to work. I just don't buy it ;).

To be honest, me neither! ;)

I know it was in another post somewhere here on AVS, but at the moment I can't locate it. I'm almost positive it was one of the other forums, but I don't remember which - or the thread name! Arrgg.

OK, I take it back - I finally remembered enough unique search keywords to have the site search be able to pinpoint it:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=431805&highlight=FastFat

Whoops - I was slightly off - he claims firewire support, not USB. I must have been thinking of the 6412 manual, which describes the front/back USB ports as for expansion vs. firewire, which is noted as being for output to the TV (nothing about expansion)..

Look for the post by DesolataX prior to the one describing using FastFat. Of course, he's seemed to have disappeared into the void - no surprise if it's not true.

That's why I was looking for any other users to confirm it - particularly for the 6412, since we have different firmware. Speaking of - I keep seeing references to (at least some of) the 6412s as running M$ software. How can I tell if the Cox ones are?

If they are, the format of the drive would logically be NTFS - or a derivative thereof, ala the XBox HD format.. So formatting it beforehand on a PC would be relatively easy (making the assumption that the box wouldn't auto-format a blank drive).

Thanks... was an interesting read. Des sounded fairly knowledgeable, but he could have been yanking our chains. I really wish we could add an external drive. The standard isn't going to cut it for long :). Do our boxes have working firewire?

Does anyone w/ the upgrade to 9.11 know if the PiP and SWAP buttons now work?

Are there now two "live buffers" (one for each tuner) going on at the same time, and does each tuner retain its own live buffer (until you switch the channel)?

-T

pip does not work, but the swap button will give you the previous channel. I have never heard anything from anyone that it would be functional.

don't know about the buffers but assume you must be close in your assumption.

Interesting.. reason why I'm asking is because the TWC implentation of the Passport Echo software allows you to swap between the tuners, each having its own live buffer (when no scheduled recordings).

Eric let me ask you as you are now on the new firmware, if you are watching say ESPN and it's keeping a live buffer, then switch to BRAVO and watch that for awhile, then SWAP back to ESPN, does it retain the original live buffer while you were away from ESPN (for example, can you rewind it and watch the stuff that was on ESPN while you were away watching BRAVO)? Then, if you SWAP back to BRAVO, does it retain that buffer (while you were swapped back to ESPN)? My question is confusing, I hope I am wording it right.

-T

Originally posted by dresf
pip does not work, but the swap button will give you the previous channel. I have never heard anything from anyone that it would be functional.

Actually,

PIP stuff will never work - at least until Cox give people new remotes.

Why?

Because, the custom device code (1376) Cox has the remotes programmed for has no functions mapped to the PIP Move, PIP CH +, and PIP CH- buttons. Can't remember for certain, but I'm 90% sure PIP On/Off doesn't have anything mapped on it either.

The only PIP button that does have anything mapped to it is the swap button.

So, without any function codes on the buttons, even if they enabled PIP functionality on the box in SW, we couldn't use it! :(

That's why I ended up re-programming the PIP CH -/+ buttons for Day -/+ [since the Atlas remote doesn't have those buttons unlike my old remote].

Back to the topic: I can't help but wonder if the swap button now actually swaps between the two tuners, rather than just do the same thing as "Prev". Logically speaking, it WOULD make sense for that button to do that.

Maybe the reason other people have seen swap as doing a "Prev" is:
a) If the box isn't currently doing anything with the 2nd tuner (IE: watching TV/recording same time) it falls back to doing the same as Prev?

b) The new SW "flip-flops" between the tuners when nothings currently being recorded, and you change channels?

I realize b) doesn't make a whole lot of sense - the only useful reason I could see is if tuning the non-active tuner is somehow faster than retuning the one currently in use, so flip-flopping between them would result in faster surfing (when both are free).

a) would make a certain amount of sense if the 2nd tuner is turned off when not "in use". Therefore, if it's not currently recording (meaning "on")there's nothing to swap to - so the SW just does a last channel reversion instead.

This makes me want to get home so I can start experimenting! :D

--Walburga

Walburga, are you getting picture breakup on the HD channels? It seams that whenever I switch between tuners, I start getting breakup and can only clear it by stopping all recording, changing channels the going back to the original channel.

Allen

I also notice picture breakup but like you ONLY when recording AND ONLY on the channel(s) that are recording. Interesting.

Eric, Cox is sending a tech out tomorrow ... will let you know if they find anything.

Allen

I just got one of these and I like the HDTV! However I do have a question. On the replay, I could go to a find shows screen and "type" in keywords for a show using the arrows and enter, and then search for said show in the guide. I've yet to find that function on the Cox DVR, but thought I saw a screencap of it here somwhere. Anybody know if/where this feature is on this unit?
Tom

Originally posted by apaulct
Walburga, are you getting picture breakup on the HD channels? It seams that whenever I switch between tuners, I start getting breakup and can only clear it by stopping all recording, changing channels the going back to the original channel.

Allen

Allen,

I played around a little bit with switching tuners, but not while recording so I can't give a qualified answer - but from little I did do, I didn't notice anything like that.

Of course, that not to say it won't happen...

BTW: To answer my own prior post, the Swap button definitely swaps between the two tuners.. I verified it by swapping than changing channels then swapping back.

However, the "Previous channel" is NOT separate on a per-tuner basis.If you change channels, then swap, then prev it will return to the channel you had previously been on on the other tuner before swapping.

That is: To put it simply, it only remembers the most recent channel change. It doesn't matter whether you've swapped tuners since that channel change.

Oh, and yes there appear to be two separate live buffers.

I left one tuner on a station, swapped to the other tuner, then a little while later swapped back and was able to rewind to parts I "missed" while watching the 2nd tuner.

Then, switching back to the 2nd tuner I saw that it had still been buffering while rechecking the 1st tuner.

--Walburga

Originally posted by d2tw4all
I just got one of these and I like the HDTV! However I do have a question. On the replay, I could go to a find shows screen and "type" in keywords for a show using the arrows and enter, and then search for said show in the guide. I've yet to find that function on the Cox DVR, but thought I saw a screencap of it here somwhere. Anybody know if/where this feature is on this unit?
Tom

While in Guide mode, press "C" and it shows a screen to type a name to search for... Kinda like the Replay.

Haven't actually searched for anything yet, so not sure how it compares in usefulness to our Replays.

(Just how many of us Replay AND 6412 owners are there here?! :p You, madpoet, me... )

Speaking of - good thing I still have the Replay! Last night, the 6412 screwed up and didn't tape "Father of the Pride" correctly. I went to go watch it, and the description in the saved shows list said the show time was from 8:59-8:59 and when I hit Play, nothing (musta been 0 length file).

So, I ended up having to Poopli the show! That's one feature I REALLY wish these had!

Originally posted by Walburga
Speaking of - good thing I still have the Replay! Last night, the 6412 screwed up and didn't tape "Father of the Pride" correctly. I went to go watch it, and the description in the saved shows list said the show time was from 8:59-8:59 and when I hit Play, nothing (musta been 0 length file).



That's odd. I've had that same problem a couple of times. I thought maybe it was a one-time deal but now that others have had the same thing happen then it must be a glitch with the 6412. Anyone else have this happen before?

James

any word of if the DVI problems have been addressed yet????

Originally posted by oleus
any word of if the DVI problems have been addressed yet????

Sorry for being ignorant, but what DVI problems? [I've been using the DVI without any apparent issues from day one..]

--Walburga

Some displays, especially projectors, even high end HDCP (high bandwidth, digital, copy protection) enabled are having trouble communicating with the boxes via dvi.

These problems are set to be resolved, hopefully, in a 1Q 2005 upgrade

that stinks, because my projector just got upgraded to be HDCP compliant for use with DVI (which i use), and i couldn't wait to get a 6212 when they come out here.

Thanks, I'll have to try that find function. I'm somewhat disappointed that it only gets a week's worth of guide, what were they thinking?!?! My replay is no longer hooked up, and honestly it's not even worth playing with at this point, the SD stream from the replay looks so bad on my tv (even using component output on the replay and recording at high quality) and surprisingly SD looks considerably better through the new box, not quite sure why that would be, maybe because there isn't any conversion going on... Either way I like this new box overall just for the fact that it's more seamless than my replay. One thing that's really getting annoying is that my TV keeps staying in the "JUST" setting even if I switch it to "Normal" when watching SD non widescreen broadcasts. I mean it's neat when I go to a HD station and the TV automagically switches to the correct aspect, but it doesn't like to go back to standard mode when I leave the HD stations! Any word on if/when SCIFI might be going HD?
Tom

Originally posted by schung07
Bob, the 6412 will not upconvert a 480i signal...it will only send HD signals to your television at the resolution you set (720p or 1080i). Basically, all SD channels will be sent to the tv as 480i, while the HD channels are configureable between 720p and 1080i.

I have my 4:3 override set to 480p and all non HD channels are sent at 480p over my DVI connection and they look just great.

Steve

Originally posted by Walburga
Speaking of - good thing I still have the Replay! Last night, the 6412 screwed up and didn't tape "Father of the Pride" correctly. I went to go watch it, and the description in the saved shows list said the show time was from 8:59-8:59 and when I hit Play, nothing (musta been 0 length file).



I had the same problem with the old version of the firmware. It kept recording a 0 length file 1 min before the scheduled record start time. The only way I could fix it was to cold boot (unplug then plug in) the box. I have not had the problem since ... was hoping it was fixed in the new firmware ... guess not :mad:

As far as the breakups, I would get them every time I hit the swap button to switch between tuners. They would go away if I changed channels the back to the original channel. They would come back as soon as I hit swap again. I also have them on a recording I made while watching the same show. Cox HD tech will be here today ... will let you know what he says.

Allen

The two tuners are activated, here in RI.

I'm good to go, about 4:30 AM this morning the screen was filled with a Pioneer logo, and then the box powered down.

I tried to record a show and then change the channel and voila, it changed.

Previous to this when I tried to change channels, I received a "tuner is busy, you must cancel this recording before changing channels."

So, all is good until I find the next thing to tweak.

Oh, yeah. The subscription required error showed up for the first time, last night. That is annoying. Maybe the software update will help.

DUDE I'm in RI too!!! Anyway I didn't check to see if I got the software, the tech who installed the unit yesterday said it would come today, maybe he meant early this morning... With dual tuners enabled, can you record 2 channels at once as well or is it only for watching one channel while recording another?
Tom

Does anyone know if I can get more recording time choosing either 720p or 1080i? Also is there a quality difference between the two?

Hi Tom:

Have you looked at the RI HDTV Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4352045#post4352045) yet?



According to the DCT6400 spec sheet we can:

Record one program while viewing another.
Record two programs at the same time
Watch a recorded program while recording two other programs at the same time

I’ve yet to try the last two features.

But, I will. :D

Great, just posted on that other thread, I had thought it could record 2 at once but was just confirming. I don't like the interface of this DVR nearly as much as the ReplayTV, WHY don't these people do adequate testing/research before designing these things, I mean I think they could have done MUCH better with the interface, it's like they designed it to mimick their current digital cable guide which is in my opinion a total POS and always has been. Why don't these people learn!?!? Where are you in RI anyway?
Tom

Making me hungry for my install *sniff* 2 more weeks.

Bob R:
What firmware version are you running now?

Wow, this 9.11 release fixes quite a few problems:
1. DVI handshaking bug seems to have dissapeared for me - YEAH!
2. FF/REW of HD programming is much smoother and faster - YEAH!
3. Playing a program that is still recording actually starts from the beginning now and FF/REW doesn't kick you back to live - YEAH!
4. Dual tuner seems to work as one would expect - YEAH!
5. Search capability now rivals that of Tivo - YEAH!

Some additional capability still missing:
1. USB should be enabled for external storage
2. 12+ days of guide data
3. Categories for scheduled and recorded programs (the ReplayTV approach not the Tivo approach).

Is it me, or is the remote even slower than it was with this new firmware update. To me, it's painfully slow.

Originally posted by cab2
Is it me, or is the remote even slower than it was with this new firmware update. To me, it's painfully slow. Didn't notice any difference on this front and never had slowness problems with the previous firmware either - I am using a good universal remote so don't know if that's a factor.

USB won't be used for external storage- just Firewire, if they ever produce the drives.

Originally posted by moyekj
Didn't notice any difference on this front and never had slowness problems with the previous firmware either - I am using a good universal remote so don't know if that's a factor.

I haven't notices any slowdown either.

Although, I noticed something odd last night...

We had a movie on HBO set to tape yesterday. When I looked in the list last night, the box recorded it - but it taped as 2 separate segments!! Anyone else have this happen?

--Walburga

Hey, is little Rhody getting second classed again?


I wouldn’t want to bust bubbles over the Motorola 6412, but is there any reason why Rhode Island is not getting the iGuide like our neighbors in Massachusetts who have the same box?

It is more Tivo like and a lot friendlier. Example, they have a 15 min FF skip or something like the Tivo and you get a great time bar.

so i got the 6214 from cox in ct yesterday, and i have to say its pretty nice. its pretty much like tivo except without the annoying tivo sounds whenever you press a button. i just took a quick look around the box yesterday and it looks like its got firmware version 9.14, 5c looks like its turned on on most of the digital channels, and the new guide looks like its from echostar. The built in pip function doesn’t look like it works but it does let you switch from one tuner to the next. so if your recording one show you can switch inputs and keep surfing on the other. You can record and schedule shows from the guide and record a show on a specific channel or all channels, you can also set it to record first run only and first run and repeats, it will also record the whole series of a show. it also looks as though the ff and rev functions have three speeds and go back to the last screen break after you press the play button again. so if you are ff'ing and your show starts before you hit the play button it looks like it goes back to the last large screen break. The only gripe I have so far is that the remote barely works. It has to be pointed almost directly at the cable box in order to receive the ir from the remote. The remote has two ir emitters on the top just like the standard cox remote but works much much worse. I tried switching the batteries with no luck. Anyone have any suggestions?

Anyway that’s a first glance at the box and im satisfied so far

-A

AW crap! I'm also having the picture breakup issues on HD channels when switching tuners! I basically paused it on one station, then started looking on the other tuner and when I went back to the first paused segment and started playing again it was getting all garbled (it recorded that way too because if I go back and forth it's all garbled the same way in the same places). Even hitting return to live didn't fix it, it's all messed up until you change channels and then go back! WOW this is really buggy too, ff/rw don't always work right, like I'll fast forward a minute and when I hit play it like indexes back to where I started fast forwarding from! Also, hitting the live button is very inconsistent, sometimes I have to hit it a bunch of times before it actually goes to live, what it does otherwise is try to "find" live on the time bar and then ends up going back a minute or two! I didn't have this long enough before the update to know if it's to blame or not, but I suspect between the garbled video and the buggy ff/rw/live functions we should see another update in our futures!!! I haven't seen ANY of this behavior in SD broadcasts, only HDTV, very odd!
Tom

(COX - Rhode Island - new firmware)

Me too -- I'm getting the junk in the picture when viewing HD. It does usually go away when I switch channels and come back. This of course, won't help for things that are set to record when I'm gone. My ff/rw is actually much better since the firmware update, it seems to me.

Unrelated questions:

Is there any discrete "ON" command for the 6412? ...or any work-around?

I have an HDMI input (no DVI) on my TV and am thinking of using the DVI output from the 6412 -- is the 6412's DVI output HDCP-compatible (or does it not matter)?

Originally posted by Joe3
Hey, is littel Rhody getting second classed again?


I wouldn’t want to bust bubbles over the Motorola 6412, but is there any reason why Rhode Island is not getting the iGuide like our neighbors in Massachusetts who have the same box?

It is more Tivo like and a lot friendlier. Example, they have a 15 min FF skip or something like the Tivo and you get a great time bar.

Joe3,

You have seen the new iGuide in person on a 6412??? You have a 6412 and you would rather have the iGuide?

Is this true? I guess you have Passport Echo. Can you elaborate on why you think the iGuide is better than what you have?

Thanks,
Mark

Originally posted by sophware
I have an HDMI input (no DVI) on my TV and am thinking of using the DVI output from the 6412 -- is the 6412's DVI output HDCP-compatible (or does it not matter)?

Well,

I have my 6412 hooked up to my Sony 32HS420 via a DVI-HDMI cable with no problem, so it should work fine for you.

PS: Don't bother spending $$$ on a Monster Cable or anything - I only paid $18 for my 6' cable online.. Being digital, it either works or it doesn't. There's nothing a more expensive cable can do to "improve" the picture, unlike analog cables. Anything that purports to is PR crap or just plain lying.

--Walburga

Originally posted by rontonio
Does anyone know if I can get more recording time choosing either 720p or 1080i? Also is there a quality difference between the two? Choosing 720p or 1080i will affect the output of the box, but it won't affect the recording time; the available recording time will be the same regardless of what the box is set to output (480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i).

Whether 720p or 1080i looks better depends on your display and the program content. You'd probably want to experiment to see which looks better to you.

Originally posted by markjrenna
Joe3,

You have seen the new iGuide in person on a 6412??? You have a 6412 and you would rather have the iGuide?

Is this true? I guess you have Passport Echo. Can you elaborate on why you think the iGuide is better than what you have?

Thanks,
Mark

I have the Passport Echo on a 6412 and it is functional. But the iGuide has the little touches like a better graphic interface that is easier on the eyes especially handy late at night. A skip ahead button, Passport Echo has a 15 second skip back button. (???) The iGude has great pop ups like local weather at the touch of a button.

Its weird, but it is almost the friendly difference between the new Replay and Tivo. The iGude seems to be better thought out for the customer than Passport Echo and is simpler to use.

Rhode Island has a high elderly population, I can here the phone calls, “ I can’t get my TV to work.”

Originally posted by DaveFi
USB won't be used for external storage- just Firewire, if they ever produce the drives.

Cox Orange county has told its 6412 installers that in the future the USB port WILL be capable of being used for additional sorate.

[i]Originally posted by rontonio
Does anyone know if I can get more recording time choosing either 720p or 1080i? Also is there a quality difference between the two?[/B]

720p and 1080i take up the same space, (about 10GB an hour) since 1080i is at 30 frames a second and 720p is at 60 frames a second. This is a lot higher than 480i or 480p which is between 1 and 2GB an hour.

Due to the frame rate difference between 720p and 1080i many people claim that the PQ is the same. Sets that can truly scan or display 1080 lines will be more available this winter and it remains to be seen if there is a noticable PQ improvement with them when they are receiving a 1080i signal

They're mistaken. AFAIK it only has USB 1.1 which is too slow for harddrives.

Well, too slow for HD anyway. It is fast enough to stream MPEG2 DVD content.

Well after hearing that several of my CT bretheren have gotten it installed in the last couple days, I called Cox back. They had originally told me they couldn't install it until after Oct 1 because the boxes weren't available. When I called back I mentioned that several other people were getting them, the guy said "Oh yeah, that person was wrong. We're only short on the regular HD boxes. We have plenty of the DVRs." So now my install is Wednesday morning. Craziness ;). I can't believe that they have a shortage on the regular boxes but NOT the HD DVR boxes! Why have 1 without the other ;).

On another note, I had some firewire questions about this box. I know the locals are not 5c-encrypted, but how does the Copy Once flag work? Since I've got a JVC 40k unit I should be able to copy material once. But what if it's on the PVR drive already? Does that negate the copy once flag? Am I limited then to either directly saving to the JVC deck or to the hard drive?

Thanks,
MP

well, with my 6208 (copy protection enabled with 7.15 firmware) i can record PVR'd HD programs via firewire with no problem. this is with a JVC 30K.

Originally posted by madpoet
I can't believe that they have a shortage on the regular boxes but NOT the HD DVR boxes! Why have 1 without the other ;).

People wanting to save $5/month by not having the "DVR Service" charge would be my guess.

Actually, I'm sure it's really because they don't know that the HD DVR boxes are available, period.

After all, when I called to get mine, I was calling to get the regular HD box, and only got the HD DVR because I asked when any DVR models [HD or not] would be available in CT and the CSR said, after checking, that they were available now.

They didn't change the website to say they are available in our area until the week after I called.

Now that I think about it, makes me wonder whether they had been available for awhile, unpublicized, or if I just happened to call right as they started rolling them out here in CT..

BTW: Congrats on getting it sooner! :D

--Walburga

Has this link already been posted?

http://www.pioneerdigital.com/passportecho/echoced.asp

OH MAN after the new update you only get 30 mins of pause time, I'm guessing they split the original hour between tuners. SUX! The FF and RW are still really goofy on my unit, I can FF for a minute and when I hit play it just goes back to where I started, same with RW. I hope they get this figured out and give us another update at some point, this could get QUITE annoying without a friggin 30 second skip button! I'm sure they'll have to do something about the garbled HDTV playback as well, this patch may have caused more problems than it solved...
Tom

You're probably right Walburga. Theyhaven't made a big push to advertise it yet. Wonder if it's because it was still a bit flaky? Anyway, looking forward to giving it a spin next week. I just wish that a) THey give us ABC and FOX locals, or b) This thing could tune OTA. Having to split off Fox and ABC on my HTPC to record is a pain integration-wise.

-MP

[i]I just wish that a) THey give us ABC and FOX locals [/B]

I second that!!!

--Walburga

I also get the picture breakup when I switch between tuners a few times and the solution that works for me is to unplug the unit and plug it back in. There is no way to tell which tuner you are on.

When you are watching an HD channel (not recording), don't leave the other tuner on an HD channel as it increases the likelihood of picture breakup. I wish you could turn the second tuner off because, even if you are not watching it, the 6412 is apparently buffering it to the hard drive (thereby wasting CPU and disk resources).

When you do a FF, hit PAUSE first before play to resume playback and you won't get the skip back...

The search capabilities are very nice now (by keyword or title). I agree that 6 days is too short.

Thanks for the FF/RW tips, I'll have to give that a shot. I agree that you should be able to have more control over it using both tuners, it's probably what is causing the picture problems AND now you can only pause for 1/2 hour which really sux!
Tom

Tom, I believe that the half-hour HD pause is dictated by the legal HDCP requirements...

Ummm it was DEFINITELY an hour prior to the dual tuner upgrade, it's even in the quick reference guide I believe...
Tom

I'm in Orange County, Ca and got my 6412 early last week. Apparently I received the software upgrade sometime late last week although the way I found out about it was on Saturday when I wanted to record the Raiders game. Was on my way out the door and saw that the recording light was on yet the channel was still on an HBO station. Did some experimenting and then determined I must have received the update. But no notification from COX of any kind whatsoever nor was there any notification on-screen.

I have perused the other messages here and wanted to find out if anyone else is experiencing pixelation and literally picture breakup every few seconds DURING the recording process on either the channel that is recording or the alternative channel? I found that the severe breakup of the picture every few seconds eventually subsided after about 10 minutes while I was watching the Raider's game (I was watching about 30 minutes behind real-time) And when I switched over to the other tuner to watch the USA choke big time in the Ryder Cup, I had pixelation and breakup every 3 seconds or so. (I was watching this channel in real-time. And the Buffer, by the way, DOES work in this mode as well).

So I stopped the recording on the RAIDERS game to see if the problem would cease yet it persisted on both tuners, while watching real-time, until I powered off and unplugged the box. Anyone know of remedies besides complete powerdown? (SOMETIMES, hitting the SWAP button worked). COX Will want to send a technician out I am sure even though the problem was caused via the upgrade.

Anyone in O.C. experiencing similar problems? (Let me add that the problem was present while recording the RAIDERS game and then watching a previously recorded program as well. I have watched the previously recorded program a couple of times PRIOR to the upgrade and the problems were not there until Saturday so it is not part of the recording I dont think)

Thanks
Doug

There is lots of discussion about this problem on the COX Orange County Thread of tbe Local HDTV Info... forum and no one has said they are not having it.
It appears that anytime a channel SD or HD is caused to display by means
other than switching to it( pause, instant replay, swap etc) any HD buffers in use for viewing or recording will having corrupted data from that time on. The only way to fix it on the channel your are watching is to change channels and come back to your channel thereby starting your display with a new buffer. If you were recording HD on the other tuner you would need to stop and restart the recording

If anyone not receiving their 6412 service from Cox, Orange Couty is haveing this problem please let us know.

Thanks Walford. Sounds like I am in good company. ;-) My assumption is COX is aware of it? (One less support call to them from me is more time they can spend misscommunicating other pieces of information to people.)

I am in RHODE ISLAND with Cox and the same recorder and am ABSOLUTELY having the same problem with picture corruption, FYI!!! Same symptoms exactly!
Tom

Originally posted by d2tw4all
AW crap! I'm also having the picture breakup issues on HD channels when switching tuners! I basically paused it on one station, then started looking on the other tuner and when I went back to the first paused segment and started playing again it was getting all garbled (it recorded that way too because if I go back and forth it's all garbled the same way in the same places). Even hitting return to live didn't fix it, it's all messed up until you change channels and then go back! WOW this is really buggy too, ff/rw don't always work right, like I'll fast forward a minute and when I hit play it like indexes back to where I started fast forwarding from! Also, hitting the live button is very inconsistent, sometimes I have to hit it a bunch of times before it actually goes to live, what it does otherwise is try to "find" live on the time bar and then ends up going back a minute or two! I didn't have this long enough before the update to know if it's to blame or not, but I suspect between the garbled video and the buggy ff/rw/live functions we should see another update in our futures!!! I haven't seen ANY of this behavior in SD broadcasts, only HDTV, very odd!
Tom

You may want to call Cox about this issue; they may already know about it but if you call them and bug them it could get them to rush the fix...

Good point, if I have an extra hour or three to wait on hold I just might...
Tom

What the crap, my guide hasn't updated past Tuesday at 7:30, this happen to anyone else?
Tom

OK called the problem into cox, he kept offering to send someone out, I told him it would be a waste of time, he kept insisting! I told him I KNOW IT'S A SOFTWARE PROBLEM he finally listened. He zapped the box and it seems to have downloaded an updated guide finally, was getting nervous there! I sure hope they have a fix in the works for this video corruption issue, I'd almost rather go back to single tuners an get reliable recordings, 1 good recording is FAR better than 2 useless ones!!! For now I'm not recording any HD, I don't think the problem manifests itself unless at least 1 HD recording is going on...
Tom

Based on my testing the problem manifests itself any time you do something to cause an HD display to use its buffer after you have started viewing it clean from a channel change or guide selection. Doing a swap, an instant replay, a pause and unpause will cause the problem even if you are not recording anything. If the other tuner is also set to an HD channel it will also start experincing the problem as soon as the viewed does.
I set one tuner to channel 44 did a swap and set the other tuner to channel 45. Then swapped back to channel 44 and swithced to channel 707. All was fine till I swapped back to channel 45 and then returned to 707 and it went bad. At no time did I record any of the channels. The instant fix when watching a corrupted HD channel is to change channels by doing an up channel followed by a down channel in order to start with a clean buffer. To fix a recording channel you have to stop the recording, change the channel and change back and then restart the recording.

I SURE hope they are working for a solution on this, this is REALLY crappy!
Tom

You bet your sweet biffy they are working on it. This thing is practically unusable in its present state

I called Cox and they are sending someone down on Friday.

As we all know, the service rep will repeat for himself what I just showed, then nod his head and change the box. I will lose everything that I recorded. But as soon as that new hard drive starts to fill or sooner, the problem will still be there.

I believe the box is being starved.

Just an opinion

Anybody agree?

The Cox service buy came today and tested my signal. I am at work, and he called from my house (my son is there). Although the diagnostic screens I looked at last night said GOOD on both HD signals, he said that they were on the line of GOOD/BAD. He found a splitter coming into the house that he changed, giving me another 2db. He claims that his fix should do the job. I can’t test it until tonight, but we’ll see.

Joe3: Are you saying you feel that the box needs more signal than is being delivered or that the infrastructure is capable of delivering?

I don't think the problem has anything to do with signal strength. When Cox installed my box the replaced all the cable ends and splitters and put an amplifier on the line and said I now had perfect signal.
If the guy comes and changes anything before he leaves just use the swap button to get both tuners on to HD channels and then swap back and forth a couple of times and the problem should show right up.
In fact I have made it happed with just swapping back and forth between an SD and an HD channel without any recording going on.

Man, you guys are bumming me out... install is tomorrow morning ;).

Madpoet, don't be discouraged. I'd be willing to bet $20 that says your unit will operate fine (in certain conditions), and exhibit the breakup problem when tuned to two HD channels and then performing some sort of operation.

That said, there are ways to ensure foolproff use of the unit. I've NEVER had a recording fail when I've set both tuners to SD channels prior to the unit starting to record. Playback is flawless if the recording was flawless. The problems that occur (picture breakup) are not terminal. They don't even require a power down in most cases, just switch both tuners to SD channels and then switch one back to the HD channel you were watching.

This does in fact defeat the purpose of having dual tuner, but you can in fact carry one tuner on an SD channel and record an HD channel just fine. For now, that's what we'll all have to live with, it seems.

-T

I wouldn't say this defeats the purpose of dual tuners, not in the least. They work just fine for SD broadcasts, which comprise about 99% of anything I want to record anyway to be quite honest. Sure this will become an issue if it's still there when more HD channels are added, but I highly doubt they will let the problem stay for that long! There are a ton of bugs to be worked out of these boxes still, the guide can be a little hokey, ff/rw is DEFINITELY hokey, and the navigation line gets messed up a lot...
Tom

ya. so ive also been noticing the "jaggies" when switching between channels and using the buffered video. ill have to give cox in ct a call and complain. on another note. has anyone had any issues with the remote that cox has been giving out with the new box’s'?? i cant seem to get it to work without having the remote pointed almost directly at the cable box. the performance of this remote is very much worse then the previous remote i had from cox. anyone have any insight

-A

Well, for the 2nd straight week, 'Father of the Pride' failed to record - said that it was 0 minutes long again (8:59-8:59). :confused:

Thank God that after it happening last week that I set the ReplayTV to record as a backup.

I'm also noticing the same digital corruption issues that other people have had. In fact, I ended up simply deleting somethings I had recorded because they were unwatchable with all the corruption *SIGH*.

This is getting me nervous because this week starts the major push of show seasons starting up, meaning I'm about to do A LOT more taping than before - since my wife works evenings most of the time, we have to tape all the prime-time stuff we watch.

I'd call Cox to complain, but I'm positive the person I'd talk to would have no clue what I'm talking about, and simply want to send a Tech out.. which, as we all know won't solve anything. :(

I hear ya there, I wish they had some decent techs on their end, heck THEY SHOULD ALL HAVE ONE OF THESE DVR UNITS!!! When I called, the guy was like "I was thinking of getting one myself but now I'm not sure after hearing how buggy they are..." COX THIS SHOULD TELL YOU SOMETHING!!! First, your units should have had better testing because WAY too many of us are having these problems and they are so consistent. Second, WHY IN THE WORLD don't the people who have to support these units have one themselves!!!
Tom

Had my install this morning. Never a good feeling when you know more about the box than the tech ;). He was nice enough, but when I started asking about 2 tuners he just insisted they only had one. So when it was hooked up I showed him otherwise. Really bad pixelation issues. If this deosn't clear up, this thing will NOT be a keeper in my house. Set up some recordings for tonight that I also doubled on my Replay just in case.

-MP

Anyone know the email address to send a complaint to for Cox CT?

I've decided to at least send them a scathing email:
a) on the theory that the more complaints they get, the more seriously they'll hopefully take this issue (and inform their support people too!)
b) make me feel better :p

--Walburga

Originally posted by Walburga
Well, for the 2nd straight week, 'Father of the Pride' failed to record - said that it was 0 minutes long again (8:59-8:59). :confused:


I got FOTP last week, but last night nothing, even though it was set to record the series. And I am getting lot's of pixelization on the HD feeds after the dual tuner firmware upgrade. I don't know why it records some shows, and not others. Very confusing...

Chris

Originally posted by dresf
Joe3: Are you saying you feel that the box needs more signal than is being delivered or that the infrastructure is capable of delivering?

Eric,

I just notice that this problem happened when a signal was weak prior to the 6412 tuners. And it did not happen prior to activating the second tuner for me.

When I read up on the 6412 it said it had the ability to dedicate signal resources to the channel your watching I said great. But the problem remains.

So I am saying maybe its signal related on their end. Also, because it is happening with the HD signal, maybe its bit related. If it is they should make the ajustment soon or face loosing people.

Just a thought

Originally posted by Walburga
I'd call Cox to complain, but I'm positive the person I'd talk to would have no clue what I'm talking about, and simply want to send a Tech out.. which, as we all know won't solve anything. :(

Why not let the tech come out at your convenience. The more useless work-orders they create, the higher the priority on a solution. I think they would like to stop waisted home visits.

I have a visit scheduled for later this week ... I know it won't solve anything but maybe it will help speed-up a solution.

Allen

Except that if they send a tech out, more than likely they'll swap out your box, bye bye any recordings you have scheduled and we KNOW this won't fix the problem, so it's not worth it in my opinion...
Tom

IMHO ... if you don't complain ... they wont admit they have a problem. The more complaints, the bigger the problem.

Also, if you have complaints on record, you have more ammo when you refuse to pay the bill for a service that is not working.

Allen

Originally posted by d2tw4all
Except that if they send a tech out, more than likely they'll swap out your box, bye bye any recordings you have scheduled and we KNOW this won't fix the problem, so it's not worth it in my opinion...
Tom

Exactly my problem..

I have a bunch of stuff on the drive that I haven't watched yet that I don't want to lose if I can avoid it [Thanks to the free month of HBO and Starz! :)] - and unlike the Replay, I can't use DVA to offload the shows (assuming I had PC HD space which I don't..:( )

--Walburga

Originally posted by apaulct
IMHO ... if you don't complain ... they wont admit they have a problem. The more complaints, the bigger the problem.

Also, if you have complaints on record, you have more ammo when you refuse to pay the bill for a service that is not working.

Allen

Considering that when ever I call to follow up on a problem they never seem to be able to find any record of any previous calls, just because you call doesn't seem to be effective for having a record of complaints later on when needed.

So, in that sense, emailing seems to be just as good for having a record of complaints - and you don't have to sit there trying to explain the problem to a clueless support person for 20 minutes in the process. Less risk of elevated blood pressure. ;)

That's why I asked if anyone knew the proper email address to contact...

--Walburga

If some people aren't having this problem, then swapping out boxes could well help those of us that are having the problem.

Make sense?

Maybe it is worth it to have the tech come out?

Is absolutely *everyone* having the problem?

Originally posted by sophware
If some people aren't having this problem, then swapping out boxes could well help those of us that are having the problem.

Make sense?

Maybe it is worth it to have the tech come out?

Is absolutely *everyone* having the problem?

Well, while I can't say that everyone is having the problem, looking at this thread and the Cox Orange County, CA thread in the Local HDTV forum there hasn't been anyone whose come forward saying they're definitively not seeing the problems, at least after being asked to go through the steps to recreate the problem.

Also, in that other thread, at least two people have gotten a response from Phil at Cox admitting there IS a problem with the new software build (plus another unnamed rep who said no known time-frame and no rollback to the old software either.)

Judging by all that evidence, I'd say it's software/hardware related - it may be pure software, or it may be that the SW is stressing the HW beyond it *actual* capabilities (vs. advertised capabilities) or the SW has shown a HW flaw that previously wasn't exposed.

Now, considering how widespread this problem appears to be, I'm shocked that this wasn't seen/fixed during the QC process!!

It's not like what we're doing that causes the issue is anything REMOTELY unusual - it's standard stuff that any average user would do. So, not having this test scenario would seem to border on incompetence, if it's the case that this simply wasn't tested..

Either way, it appears that the QC process was fundamentally flawed.

--Walgurga

Right on Walgurga -- it probablty is a software and hardware combo problem having to do with the software pushing the HW. Particular predisposed units (bad HDDs?) have the problem more than others, or smth.

Tell you what. I'll volunteer to be the HW guinea-pig. I'll have the Cox folks come to my house two or three times (or more if I have time/energy) or until it's fixed.

It would be helpful, of course, if someone could come forward and say this problem *never* happens to them. I've asked both of my friends that have it: One says "a little" and the other hasn't answered yet.

Originally posted by sophware
If some people aren't having this problem, then swapping out boxes could well help those of us that are having the problem.

Make sense?

Maybe it is worth it to have the tech come out?

Is absolutely *everyone* having the problem? I doubt all 6412 users with latest Passport software have run into the problem yet, and many that have do not monitor these forums - it took a few days before I ran into the problem and I thought perhaps I had escaped the problem only to run into it eventually. When it did happen to me I immediately thought it was just NBC HD screwing up again as they often do since I didn't see the problem on other HD channels. Eventually though, the problem started happening on several HD channels. As others have stated if you are careful and limit activities while the unit is busy recording you can avoid the problem for the most part, but hopefully that is just a short-term problem we have to deal with. I can't stress enough the importance of people letting their local Cox support know that they have the problem as this will be the only way to expedite a fix.

:p

Well, my Drone is coming Friday to do nothing as Drones often do.
Bye-by to a weeks worth of recording.

I have a hunch the box is fine. As far as software, I wouldn't mind trying iGude instead of PassPort.

A poster on the Orange County Cox forum stated that he received the following in an email.

"-
Thank you for your e-mail. Cox is committed to providing the best
customer service possible.
-
We have discovered that the dual tuner software upgrade we loaded into
the DVR’s may be causing a problem. Please accept my apologies for the
"bugs" that have been encountered with this brand new "Cable Industry"
technology. It will take time to work them all out and rest assured that
the bugs are being addressed.
-
As far as we can tell this problem is happening to all of the DVR boxes,
it appears to be related to the dual tuner software upgrade that was
loaded into the Digital boxes last week. So far we have determined that
the tiling and audio skipping occurs after using the pause, rewind, and
fast forward functions.

"

In other words... don't do anything but watch ;). Seriously, played with mine for a while this morning. Whittling my HD watching down to a mere 12 hours of content wasn't easy, but was obviously helped by no ABC or FOX :(. But man, the pixelation is enough to drive you nuts. I have several recordings set for tonight, and I'm hoping they are at least reasonably good.

I know that the "Powers that be" are monitoring this forum, and are well aware of the bugs. When the 6412 first came out w/o the dual tuner I was contacted via private message from somebody from the cable providers home office. They turned out to be quite helpful and informative. But a word to the wise, be nice and respectful or you may have a cable bill audit coming ;)

Originally posted by Joe3
:p

Well, my Drone is coming Friday to do nothing as Drones often do.
Bye-by to a weeks worth of recording.

I have a hunch the box is fine. As far as software, I wouldn't mind trying iGude instead of PassPort. Why not duplicate the problem for the drone and if it isn't fixed, tell him you are keeping your current box?

I don't really doubt the possibility that the "powers that be" are aware of the problem -- especially given the email included by Walford; however, why are they sending a tech if they know it's the software.

I wish they would just tell me I'm screwed for now and just to be patient. That way I don't have to work from home or be late for an appt.

Also...

Not to be naiive, but what is a "cable bill audit", why would I fear it, and why would the cable company do it? The last time I checked, they were overcharging me for an STB I never had.

Soph:

I did not mean for that to be serious!!!!!! Trying to add some much needed lightness into this situation. We all are very frustrated, and mad to put it lightly. I am sorry if this was taken any other way.

I do not know why they always want to send a tech out but I bet dollars to doughnuts that the CSR's we talk to on the phone just do not know any better. Take a look at how many of these DVR's are deployed in the individual markets, then take a guess at how many CSR's there are, there is a decent chance that each CSR only hears a call or two in regard to the issue. Then ponder how many of the people that have the DVR's that have never had one or know how they are supposed to work, heck I bet that only 20% of the people that have them realize there is a problem, the rest are too unsavvy on technical things or too embarrassed or frustrated to report them so it isnt being reported. That being said I don't think that trivializes the problem one iota, and I, although supremely frustrated, am confident that it will be solved...someday. For those of you who have totally had it, turn it in, get the 6200 back, and watch the board until the reviews are satisfactory. Otherwise WE should all get a life and quit whining. (Myself included!!) Because it is a fact that "we are screwed for now"

I'm not hearing a lot of "whining" on here, maybe some venting at most but that's part of what these forums are for and I like reading that other people are having this problem. I think this has been a healthy discussion thus far and it's certainly reassured me and been quite informative to know that many others are having the same problems as me and now if any of us get some inside info or whatever the group knows pretty quickly, which is the best thing about forums!
Tom

This is the latest status on the 6412 new bugs. It is very encouraging to see that Cox OC is now very aware of the bugs and how to reproduce them and have fed all the information to Motorola. Under the circumstances it seems like Cox OC is doing the best they can to expedite a fix for the problems. This was the latest email I got:

We were given an email this morning from our product support team,
explaining the known issues that have been recognized by Motorola
regarding the HD-DVR. As the "front line" employees who speak directly
to the customer, ir can be as frustrating for us as it is for you, to
want to understand why certain problems keep repeating and what can be
done about them. It takes a lot of gathered information sometimes, and
solid data to give our leaders before the situation is acknowledged.

What we were told:
1) Starting a HD recording and then watching a HD channel will cause the
bug to appear.
2) Turning off the power on the box while on a HD channel--If the box is
set to power on to last channel viewed, the box will power on to a HD
channel, which will cause the bug to appear.
3) While recording a HD channel in real time, the use of trick modes
will cause the bug to appear.
4) While watching a HD channel, pressing the instant replay button and
then pressing the live button will cause the bug to appear.

There also seems to be an issue with the fast forward button as well,
that we are just learning about. The program will fast forward, but when
you Play again, it goes back to where you started.

Regarding the guide having "holes" we are just beginning to hear trends
about this, so we are again gathering information and seeking
resolutions. Rebooting the box seems to help for now, but of course it
should not be happening at all.

We have been told that these issues are in every Motorola HD-DVR across
the U.S., not just with Cox or in the Cox system. Although that is no
consolation to you, of course, the bugs are being identified and
explored as we speak, so that we can get these issues corrected.

I have forwarded your email to product support, in hopes that they will
consider posting some sort of formal announcement about the problems and
the resolutions on this forum. Our lack of information has made us look
much worse than the fact that there were bugs in the software. We are
sincerely trying to learn all we can and convey it to you as thoroughly
as possible. Thank you for "hanging in there" with us!

Sincerely,
Brenda
Cox Communications - Video/Telephony Tech Support
Online Support Team

d2t: Well put indeed! You are correct in the term venting rather than my use of the term whining, my thesaurus was unavailable at the time. This thread has been virtually free of whining.

moyekj: Thanks for the info

I got in late from work last night and fell asleep watching a HD recording of "Lost" while recording another HD channel. I saw no problems.

Did they fix it or was I dreaming?

Likely dreaming ;). Or lucky!

Awww man wish I had LOST in HD. WTF is up with Lost anyway, I thought it was just a plane crash from the previews, from what it looks like it's a plane crash on the Jurassic Park island! Didn't expect that one!
Tom

No spoilers! Have it taped, need to watch it ;). Yeah, it is kind of a pain to have to use my OTA HD card to record ABC and Fox. But I guess it's not the end of the world. With only 12 horus of HD recording the hard drive needs all the help it can get ;)

The simple question is why did they release it if this was a known problem. I am sure they did a bunch of beta testing before such a large release.

What if a software upgrade can't fix it and it is a hardware issue, not enough processor capacity or something to that nature?

Yeah it's pretty amazing that this new firmware passed Motorola Quality Assurance and then I would assume Cox would do some QA of their own. This is some pretty complex hardware and software that has to be able to handle a lot of data at once so one would think some more rigorous testing would be in order. I'm certainly not surprised there are problems, just surprised at how blatant they are and how easily they surfaced for so many users. But I like to try and take a proactive stance at helping whoever needs help to identify and solve the problems and develop workarounds in the meantime than engage in a finger-pointing game that leads to nowhere.

Is there anyone else that has the 6412 from Cox and has not yet received the dual tuner software? Of course, I'm not sure if I even want it anymore in this version. I'm just curious if my branch is that far behind or if they have been instructed to hold off in light of the reported bugs.