New JVC DVHS Decks ( HM-DH5U and HM-DT100 ) Discussion [Text View] - Page 3

Chris Gerhard

10-13-06, 10:04 PM

Chris commented:
> I can live with the less than perfect results, probably an average of 6 glitches per tape for me. <

I agree with the first sentiment, but I guess I've been luckier than most. With the exception of a few white dots during the credits scrolling over a black background, I'd say my glitch average per tape is closer to 1. Many have 0, many have 1, a fair number have 2. When it hits 3 per tape I start to get annoyed, and begin looking for an opportunity to rerecord it.

and oleus agreed:
> only once or twice have i watched an entire recording without at least once small digital breakup. <

Hmm. I'd estimate that's more like 30-40% of the time for me, though I've only watched <5% of the 3,000 or so tapes I've recorded.

- Tim

Wow! I am at about 1,000 tapes recorded and waiting to be watched, with maybe 500 having been watched and re-recorded. Maybe a half dozen of the 500 I have watched have been glitch free. Most glitches are minor although once in a while I see a two or three second glitch. If you really only average 1 glitch per tape, you are way ahead of the curve. I recently set up a D-VHS VCR at my girlfriend's house and warned her about the glitches before watching anything. The first movie we watched "Million Dollar Baby" had 1 glitch. The second tape, "Smokey Joe's Cafe" had about 4 or 5. Both acceptable to us, thankfully and I was concerned they would be worse than average rather than better and she wouldn't think much of the format. Both were made using 169time which results in more glitches than my other sources, a Samsung SIR-T165 and Comcast DCT6412III. I get more than 1 glitch on average watching our two HD DVRs, a DirecTV HR10-250 and Comcast DCT6412III, probably 2 or 3 on average.

Chris

VideoGrabber

10-13-06, 10:05 PM

shug,

I prefer to open my decks and clip the D-VHS sensor, but the button works well too. Just don't forget to press it after inserting each tape you intend to record on. I would never drill holes, but others have melted holes with good results.

You left out Maxell, another good choice. ~95% of my tapes are S-VHS, otherwise I'd have a lot fewer tapes, simply due to the cost.

- Tim

Chris Gerhard

10-13-06, 10:11 PM

I'm sold! As far as media goes, is the JVC DF300AU DVHS tape the one to use with the 5u?

That is an excellent 2 hour and 30 minute tape. An even better tape is Fuji H471S SVHS (ST120) for 2 hours and (ST160) for 2 hours and 40 minutes. Both tapes are very expensive new. I have unacceptable results with most standard grade SVHS tape and avoid it.

Chris

VideoGrabber

10-13-06, 10:14 PM

Chris,
> I get more than 1 glitch on average watching our two HD DVRs, a DirecTV HR10-250 and Comcast DCT6412III, probably 2 or 3 on average. <

Ah, well you have to separate out the delivery glitches vs. the recording glitches. I was talking exclusively about the later, but the former have (usually) been very low for me as well. When they're not, there's normally a rash of problems, and I have to contact Charter to get them corrected. But yeah, just watching live I'm not surprised to see one small glitch every 3 or 4 movies. It's not the norm, but it's not a shock either.

It ain't perfect, and depending on your expectations some may be disappointed. But as I said above, it's good enough for me, all things considered. If there's something I care about enough to be upset about minor glitches, I usually schedule redundent recordings from separate airings. Separate airings because it's nearly as likely that the glitch was during broadcast as a tape problem. Then you've got 2 tapes with identical glitches. ;)

- Tim

VideoGrabber

10-13-06, 10:19 PM

> ...once in a while I see a two or three second glitch. <

This almost never happens for me, but it's cause for automatic expulsion to the re-record pile. ;)

- Tim

Blasst

10-14-06, 01:38 AM

Star56

10-14-06, 01:40 AM

I had random audio glitches with playback on my 30K's. These same tapes are perfect on my 5U.

VideoGrabber

10-14-06, 02:56 AM

Blasst:
> I know there is the Tape Warehouse, but after shipping I bet they are pretty close in price. <

$3.81 each in single quantities, when they're not running a sale. I've seen them for $3.50. Assuming you buy a few cases, shipping is usually 50c each, give or take. Probably a bit more out to CA. I'd be really surprised if the net cost didn't beat Fry's by a fair amount.

I've bought a lot of tapes there, and been very happy with the service. They're good people to deal with, and rectify any problems immediately.

- Tim

talman

10-14-06, 03:05 AM

VideoGrabber

10-14-06, 07:46 AM

talman,

the quality isn't exactly the same (on all the S-VHS tapes), but it's good enough. The H471S is so good that it's better than some D-VHS tape.

> Are the Fuji SVHS ProS consumer tapes nearly as good as the H471S? <

It depends on what you mean by "nearly". They're definitely not as low-noise when it comes to analog recordings, but for digital the quality is good enough that it's above the threshold where glitching results (i.e., has a decent C/N ratio)... on most of the tapes.

Let me put it this way, I wouldn't hesitate to use either the ST-120 or ST-160 Fuji ProS consumer tapes, and do so all the time. In fact, I have something like 150 blank ST-160 Fujis on my shelf right now (and another 200 H471S, and ~250 Maxell ST-126BQ Pro), so I'm set for a few months. ;)

Though I have recorded lots of the H471S (probably 500+), I have more of the consumer Fujis (over 1000, I'm sure), and with rare exceptions I've had no significant problems with them.

- Tim

shugazer9

10-14-06, 05:09 PM

Tim-
That's good to hear that you have had good results with the Fuji H471s. I just bought 100 used on ebay for $190 shipped. The same seller had a lot of 250 up for sale also, probably should have sprung for those instead. My concern is that my cable co. (Cox), could send another software upgrade any day which would prohibit D-VHS copying, so I really dont want to get stuck with a bunch of extra tapes. Hey, you wouldnt want to sell any of those 160s?
Rick.

Chris Gerhard

10-15-06, 09:36 AM

Thanks for the feedback on the SVHS tapes---I'm assuming (more searching to do) that the quality is exactly the same as a DVHS tape.

Looks like there isn't much difference in price between the H471S Fuji tape and the JVC DVHS. Are the Fuji SVHS ProS consumer tapes nearly as good as the H471S?

I don't know what ProS is. If the spine number ends in WA or VA, it is the same as Fuji H471S based on my experience. If the spine number ends in LA, it is standard Fuji SVHS and I avoid it. As far as I know, Fuji only makes two grades, the tape usually known as H471S and consumer standard SVHS. I have Fuji tapes with other names but as far as I can tell and as far as the VCR's can tell, there are only two different formulations.

Chris

TonvicAV

10-22-06, 09:20 AM

I am inspired by what I've read in this thread.

My D-VHS newbie question: will the duo referred to in the title work? 8300 has firewire, component, HDMI, VHS, optical out ports. I am in NYC with Time Warner cable as a cable provider. Pioneer 5070 is the TV. Many thanks in advance.

a8vdeluxe

10-22-06, 08:02 PM

GodobeHD

10-23-06, 10:41 AM

Ok, I've recorded my first few football games to my JVC 5u unit. I want to back them up to computer since we all know the units life span is short lived. So after reading through thread I downloaded capDVHS to transfer to computer. Now they are on the computer and thread says to use the VLC player to view. Ok, all is done. Problem is while watching there is too much stutter or dropped frames? CPU usage jumps between 75 and 95 while most of my other HD material (downloaded movies,etc) the cpu load is usually about 50%. Anyone know what is happening here??? It only happens with copy freely taged shows, of course, since copy once shows (ESPN) won't even record to computer from D-Vhs recordings. Also it is definately a playback issue since when played at very slow speeds there is no stutter, dropped frames, etc. And, when played back with PowerDVD version 6, it is the same?

All the recorded video and audio tracks carry timecodes in them. If the timecodes are missing in your recording(most often they are) the playback device whether it 5U or VLC will hold the playing until next one appears. That's why you see the stuttering or glitches in those playbacks. One sure way of getting rid of those would be to run the recorded stream thru VideoRedo with timecode correction turned on. After ALL the timecodes are added back to your video stream by VideoRedo the playback on VLC player will be silky smooth, or you can export it back to DHVS and then it will be just as perfect as a commercial release, absolutely no more of those several glitches in an hour like thing.
Or better yet you can burn those HD footages on a DVD and playback in an HDDVD player. :D

Star56

10-23-06, 03:12 PM

All the recorded video and audio tracks carry timecodes in them. If the timecodes are missing in your recording(most often they are) the playback device whether it 5U or VLC will hold the playing until next one appears. That's why you see the stuttering or glitches in those playbacks. One sure way of getting rid of those would be to run the recorded stream thru VideoRedo with timecode correction turned on. After ALL the timecodes are added back to your video stream by VideoRedo the playback on VLC player will be silky smooth, or you can export it back to DHVS and then it will be just as perfect as a commercial release, absolutely no more of those several glitches in an hour like thing.
Or better yet you can burn those HD footages on a DVD and playback in an HDDVD player. :D

I get flawless playback of recorded HD material on my 5U. The posters issue is with his computer not the 5U.

No glitches...no stutters...no drops. In fact my two 30K machines provide flawless video playback...but the audio buffer issues in the 30K do give me random audio drops ( that do not exist when played back on the 5U).

Chris Gerhard

10-24-06, 09:24 AM

I get flawless playback of recorded HD material on my 5U. The posters issue is with his computer not the 5U.

No glitches...no stutters...no drops. In fact my two 30K machines provide flawless video playback...but the audio buffer issues in the 30K do give me random audio drops ( that do not exist when played back on the 5U).

I think perhaps this is a bit of an exaggeration. D-VHS is many things, but flawless isn't one of them. Too many factors can cause a glitch, only some of them are controllable by the user. I have OTA, DirecTV and Comcast HDTV and SDTV recordings. I own both Mitsubishi models, Panasonic PV-HD1000, the Hitachi SDTV DirecTV models, and the JVC 30K, 40K and 5U VCRs. Flawless is very rare for me, glitches are seen on most tapes. It is still the only way I know to record HDTV to removable media so I use it and still find it acceptable.

Chris

a8vdeluxe

10-29-06, 11:36 AM

Ok, I've recorded my first few football games to my JVC 5u unit. I want to back them up to computer since we all know the units life span is short lived. So after reading through thread I downloaded capDVHS to transfer to computer. Now they are on the computer and thread says to use the VLC player to view. Ok, all is done. Problem is while watching there is too much stutter or dropped frames? CPU usage jumps between 75 and 95 while most of my other HD material (downloaded movies,etc) the cpu load is usually about 50%. Anyone know what is happening here??? It only happens with copy freely taged shows, of course, since copy once shows (ESPN) won't even record to computer from D-Vhs recordings. Also it is definitely a playback issue since when played at very slow speeds there is no stutter, dropped frames, etc. And, when played back with PowerDVD version 6, it is the same?

I've pretty much resolved above issue. It turned out that my video card (9000 Radeon did not support hardware acceleration. So upgrading card to fanless gigabyte 7600 was the answer for stutter playback. Note, if using the VLC player for playback make sure that in the video options that dropping frames is unchecked, and if using PowerDVD player make sure that hardware decoding is checked, and for Windows media player codec issue did not allow me to playback.
Now, depending on source, the CPU usage is anywhere between 35 and 80. Though the VLC player still has slightly noticable skips now and again. I am running an AMD 3000+ single chip CPU with 512mg memory. The only HD files that are not watchable are the Quick Time movie trailers which are Mpeg4, I think. May be upgrading to duel CPU as well. But for everyone out there with computers systems less than three years old you should be able to do this (back up your tapes to hard drive). The catch is it can only be material from network TV - OTA, and the same cable channels. When High Definition burner prices come down, we will be ripping to burner from hardrive. Sill need the D-VHS for for watching tapes that were copyprotected, and am still recording on the 5U material that is copyprotected, and games that I watch and edit out comercials. My guess is in two years, there will combo high defintion dvr/burners priced for the masses. Untill then, magnetic tape is still the way to fly for your archiving.

rcase13

10-31-06, 08:43 AM

I have been an HD fan for awhile now. I have three 8300HDs but still don't have enough space to archive. After reading this thread and others I think I have decided to invest in a D-VHS system. I live in Charlotte and people in my area have had success with the firewire port on the 8300.

My question is what deck would most recommend? Is the 5U as listed in the thread title still a good choice? It seems like it has some reliability issues. I'd like to keep the cost low as my wife has reached the boiling point as far as the amount of money I have thrown at HD equipment.

Thanks,
Rodney

madpoet

10-31-06, 09:07 AM

If you have something that can decode the firewire stream back out, the 2000U is the best work horse deck.

rcase13

10-31-06, 10:27 AM

Does this mean playback requires a firewire device? I have an older Sammy DLP that does not have a firewire port.

madpoet

10-31-06, 01:25 PM

Yes... either a JVC deck with MPEG2 decoder, or other hardware like the SIR-t165 or LG-3410A

rcase13

10-31-06, 02:40 PM

Hmm well that sucks! So does the 2000U have an MPEG decoder? I just looked and my brand new Sammy DLP doesn't have firewire. Great so I have two HD DLPs and neither have firewire... :(

Honey... I need some more money...

Chris Gerhard

10-31-06, 03:43 PM

a8vdeluxe

11-01-06, 08:26 PM

I can now play 1080p on my AMD 3000+ single cpu. The issue for me was an old video card, namely a Radeon 9000 that did not support hardware decode assist. Upgraded to a 7600 nVidia, and it is much smoother. Concensus is that anyhing above nVidea 5200, or Radeon 9200 combined with AMD 2800+, or Pentium 2.4 will play high definition, though Dual chip cpus are more enjoyable. Still can't play those quick time movie preview files smoothly, they are Mpeg4 files which is the next obstacle.

Erik Garci

11-18-06, 08:35 PM

I recently used a 5U to make a 2nd recording onto a Fuji ST120 tape (starting from the beginning of the tape). The 1st recording had no glitches, but the 2nd one has frequent glitches during the first 5 minutes or so (and no glitches after that).
Just to follow up, I have made two more recordings onto that same tape, and both times there were no glitches. So it seems that the tape itself is fine. I'm still not sure why there were glitches on the 2nd recording. Maybe the tracking needed to be manually adjusted.

pk442

11-18-06, 11:02 PM

Chris Gerhard

11-19-06, 06:59 AM

I just purchased the Nextcom R5000Hd with a Dish 211 box, and a JVC HM-DH5U DVHS deck. My question is: The R5000HD is suppose to work with the newer Dish network HD channels that are MPEG-4. How do I play MPEG-4, and how do I record it to the JVC deck? Is it possible? I have mostly been recording from MPEG-2 channels, but 1 movie was from an MPEG-4 channel (so far I've just been recording to hard drive-since I can't find anyplace that sells S-VHS tapes - only a couple of places even had standard vhs anymore).

When I purchased the R5000hd/211 combo from Nextcom, I was under the impression that this setup would work with MPEG-4.

Another question: If I've recorded something with Copy Protection to the computer, will I be unable to copy that out to DVHS?

Thanks for any advice/info- PK

Ask this question in the R-5000HD thread. There is no way for the HM-DH5U to decode MPEG4 so any playback will require an MPEG4 decoder. I have not been keeping up with the system and I wasn't aware any method of recording MPEG4 to D-VHS was possible in the first place and I doubt if it is possible.

Chris

pk442

11-19-06, 02:29 PM

Thanks Chris, your right, I was going back and forth and forgot I wasn't in the R5000 forum. You are saying I have to find a way to convert the mpeg-4 to mpeg-2 if I want to copy to DVHS. That should be fun! Any ideas where or how one would go about thiat?

Also, when I connected the firewire cable from the JVC HM-DH5U to my computer, I got the message "found new hardware - Dvhs" then "Windows will now install/configure/look for drivers." When it finished, instead of DVHS it said something like "av/video device", and then ofcourse it would not work with the R5000. This was the 1st and only thing I've hooked up to the 5U. I had the power on (both computer and the 5U) before hooking up. The directions with the 5U really only talk about hooking up a camcorder or another vcr. Do I need the power off or is there somewhere to get a windows driver for a dvhs deck? Thanks Chris, or anyone in advance for your help - PK.

CKNA

11-20-06, 10:30 AM

Ask this question in the R-5000HD thread. There is no way for the HM-DH5U to decode MPEG4 so any playback will require an MPEG4 decoder. I have not been keeping up with the system and I wasn't aware any method of recording MPEG4 to D-VHS was possible in the first place and I doubt if it is possible.

Chris

You can record MPEG4 h.264 fine to DVHS and use it as storage. I do it all the time. Once there are h.264 decoders on the mrket you will be able to play it. JVC even plays audio but you get no video because it does not have h.264 decoder.

Erik Garci

11-20-06, 02:05 PM

You can record MPEG4 h.264 fine to DVHS and use it as storage. I do it all the time. Once there are h.264 decoders on the mrket you will be able to play it. JVC even plays audio but you get no video because it does not have h.264 decoder.
Are you able to play the video now? If so, how? If not, how do you know that it was recorded properly?

Chris Gerhard

11-20-06, 06:06 PM

You can record MPEG4 h.264 fine to DVHS and use it as storage. I do it all the time. Once there are h.264 decoders on the mrket you will be able to play it. JVC even plays audio but you get no video because it does not have h.264 decoder.

So you are sure you can use a D-VHS VCR connected by firewire to a decoder and playback MPEG4 h.264?

Chris

CKNA

11-21-06, 02:50 PM

Are you able to play the video now? If so, how? If not, how do you know that it was recorded properly?

I transfer back to PC I can play the stream perfectly. That is how I know it is recorded properly.

CKNA

11-21-06, 02:55 PM

So you are sure you can use a D-VHS VCR connected by firewire to a decoder and playback MPEG4 h.264?

Chris

I am not completely sure because there is no h.264 standalone decoder, but in this case DVHS acts as bit bucket.

the_tom

12-11-06, 08:20 PM

I just purchased the Nextcom R5000Hd with a Dish 211 box, and a JVC HM-DH5U DVHS deck. My question is: The R5000HD is suppose to work with the newer Dish network HD channels that are MPEG-4. How do I play MPEG-4, and how do I record it to the JVC deck? Is it possible? I have mostly been recording from MPEG-2 channels, but 1 movie was from an MPEG-4 channel (so far I've just been recording to hard drive-since I can't find anyplace that sells S-VHS tapes - only a couple of places even had standard vhs anymore).

When I purchased the R5000hd/211 combo from Nextcom, I was under the impression that this setup would work with MPEG-4.

Another question: If I've recorded something with Copy Protection to the computer, will I be unable to copy that out to DVHS?

Thanks for any advice/info- PK
I have a JVC 30K, and I use it some... but only for 5C-protected channels; if you've ponied up for the Nexcomm I can't see it making any sense to mate that to a DVHS deck. You should be using that unprotected firewire link with a PC or Mac, capture an exact copy of the datastream, and archive on good quality but comparatively cheap DVD media. The differences:

It is easier to playback the DVHS tape. It costs 5 times as much for a tape as it does for 2 or 3 DVD5s. It takes 20 times as much space to store the tape. And the tape will add defects that are not in the original, whereas DVD archive will not.

VideoGrabber

12-12-06, 12:16 AM

the_tom wrote:
> It costs 5 times as much for a tape as it does for 2 or 3 DVD5s. It takes 20 times as much space to store the tape. <

Not knocking DVDs for archival storage (though their playability is diminished, as you pointed out), but I think you're exaggerating just a tad. "20 times as much space" for a tape? That implies one tape takes as much room as 50 DVD's. Not even close.

- Tim

gsr

12-12-06, 09:30 AM

the_tom wrote:
>"20 times as much space" for a tape? That implies one tape takes as much room as 50 DVD's. Not even close.

Is this new math or something? 20 times as much space means 1 tape would take as much room as 20 DVD's. Still an exageration, but if the DVD's are being stored without cases, it's probably more like 10 to 1.

Erik Garci

12-12-06, 02:25 PM

Is this new math or something? 20 times as much space means 1 tape would take as much room as 20 DVD's. Still an exageration, but if the DVD's are being stored without cases, it's probably more like 10 to 1.
1 tape is about 30 cubic inches (1"x4"x7.5").

1 disc is about 0.84 to 1.33 cubic inches (without a case), depending on the thickness (1.2mm to 1.5mm) and whether it is measured as a circle or a square (4.75"x4.75").

So, on average, 1 tape takes as much space as 23 to 36 discs.

the_tom

12-12-06, 03:35 PM

Yikes! No slack spoken here! OK, I repent! (sort of! :p )

All measurements under 6 inches made with calipers accurate to .001 but read to .01, over 6" made with a steel rule accurate to 1/16". All calcs rounded to the first decimal place, propagation of rounding errors not controlled between steps in the calcs.

As stored back in the original 50-pack after burning, measured diameter and height at their maximum extent, the pack fills 83.0 cu in; my historical average is 2.1 DVD5 discs per movie, so those 50 discs hold ~23.8 movies, for 3.5 cu in per movie. NOTE: 50-pack cases vary a bit in size; I have measured the ones I actually use for storage. NOTE: I chunk movies and fill each DVD5 disc with exactly 4400 MB, DVD9 with 8100.

As stored in the slip case, the tape occupies 4.11 x 1.12 x 7.5, or 34.5 cu in.

This gives a ratio of 9.9; so I could have said "it will take about 10 times as much space to store on tape as on DVD5".

But a lot of people prefer to use DVD9. If I did that, the way I fill discs, I would average about 1.1 discs per movie, so the disc box would hold about 45.4 movies, each using about 1.8 cu in; the value for the tape is about 19.2 times this. So I could have wasted all my time doing all this calculation, rather than eyeballing it, and said "it will take about 19 times as much space to store on tape as on DVD9".

But that's open to dispute, since of course, as stacked in my cabinet, the disc box does not really consume just a cylinder of volume, it really consumes the bounding rectangular prism - since I don't stuff things in the gaps between the boxes. Recognizing that, we might best go back and recalc its volume pretending it has a square cross section; this gives it a volume of about 105.7 cu in. Correcting the last result for this additional volume gives a final ratio of about 15.1. So if I was going to waste all this time and really be a stickler then I would finally have said "it will take about 15 times as much space to store your movies on tape as on DVD9".

But that's not all! The 50-pack boxes comfortably hold 55 discs, and when stacked they "nest" by nearly 4% of their height. So we should add 12% to each of the ratios calculated previously: 15.1 is corrected to 16.9, 19.2 becomes 21.5, etc.

OTOH, discs that I store in portfolio cases are stored less densely, about 5.5 cu in per movie on DVD5 considering the entire case max extent in each direction, that is only about 6.3 times as dense as tape.

If I did all those calcs before I posted, I would have had to say something like "it will take around 6 to 17 times as much space to store movies on tape as on DVDs, depending on what type of DVD you use and how you store them". And, to be fair, I would not have felt justified in saying "20".

But I would never do all those calcs, that would of course all be a CWOT :D, an eyeball estimate based on a stack of discs and a tape is close enough for the point I am making. Because my real point, which none of you have chosen to dispute (yet), is that it really doesn't make much sense to use a DVHS recorder to archive the content from the free-and-clear firewire link from the nextcomm box; he should be using a PC and making any archival copy on DVDs that will be more durable, easier to store, less subject to deterioration, and much less likely to introduce errors into the datastream as recorded and/or played back than DVHS tape would be. Unless for some reason he finds the added steps of restoring (and possibly recombining) for playback to be overwhelmingly difficult, or has a PC that is too slow to playback HD and is unwilling to spend $250 on a board with HW-based playback, like the MDP-130.

gsr

12-12-06, 05:45 PM

Yikes! No slack spoken here! OK, I repent! (sort of! :p )

:eek:

VideoGrabber

12-12-06, 06:46 PM

Hey, Tom.

Like I said before, you present some interesting ideas for compact archival storage. And I'm not knocking that. But you still have a tendency to exaggerate your case, which really isn't necessary.

> As stored in the slip case, the tape occupies <
and yet...
> As stored in the original 50-pack <

No cases for the DVDs, yet cases for the tapes?

> I chunk movies and fill each DVD5 disc with exactly 4400 MB, DVD9 with 8100. <

Cool idea. While also possible with tape, instead I have an average of 15 minutes or so of slack space at the end of each movie on tape (ranges from 0~30). Doesn't help storage space any, and neither would using a separate set of discs for each film.

> a lot of people prefer to use DVD9. If I did that... <

But you don't, apparently. And many others find the reliability of DL media significantly below that of SL. Oh, and you just blew the cost advantage factor you were touting, with DL media.

> ...really be a stickler then I would finally have said "it will take about 15 times as much space to store your movies on tape as on DVD9". <

And when you started, you were explicitly discussing DVD5. DVD9 wasn't mentioned at all. Now it's used to justify a 15x figure. With DVD5 it would be more like 8x, and if you put those discs into slimline cases (to match having tapes in their cases), you'd be closer to 4x.

Like I said initially... no where close to 20x... and that's correct. Still, even 4x is huge when you've got 40-50 terabytes of data.

> ...my real point, which none of you have chosen to dispute, is that it really doesn't make much sense to use a DVHS recorder to archive the content <

Correct. Absolutely none whatsoever... unless, of course, you have any interest in actually watching your films, vs. just archiving them.

Do you have a 3-drive system, where you can load the 3 discs from a film, along with software to seemlessly play them back without transition interruptions? Or do you first spool them back from the 3 discs to your HDD, and play from there? How long does that take, before you can watch a film?

With films split across multiple discs, and some discs containing portions of multiple films, how do you locate a film you're looking for in the middle (or bottom!) of a stack of 50 discs on a spindle?

Hopefully this won't be interpreted as argumentative, since I really am interested in viable options to tape storage. [Many folks are happy using HDD's to store their content, though it's a lot more expensive that DVD-Rs. But when (notice I didn't say "if") a drive goes south, that's a lot of movies to lose at once.] When you've got ~5k tapes, storage can become a real b!tch. But I'd like to find an alternative that doesn't impose it's own negative constraints, and I suspect that won't be a real option until we get 15G recordable Tosh-HD blanks, and the PC drives to burn them.

- Tim

VideoGrabber

12-12-06, 06:51 PM

And now I see your posting has been substantially rewritten from the version I started with to respond to a couple hours ago (and got interrupted by work). :)

- Tim

the_tom

12-12-06, 08:39 PM

And now I see your posting has been substantially rewritten from the version I started with to respond to a couple hours ago (and got interrupted by work). :)

- Tim
Hi Tim,

Sorry about rewriting out from under you. I won't dispute your points about DVD5 vs DVD9, cost factor, switching the basis of the calc, etc. I probably added the point that I couldn't really defend 20x after actually calculating it, and some other calcs, after you started your post - trying to keep myself honest and save you the trouble ;). My post was supposed to be at least half funny, as in going comically overboard on trivia, but I don't think I managed that.

I'm happy to 'splain more about how I do things, while stipulating that my process has some shortcomings:

Do you have a 3-drive system, where you can load the 3 discs from a film, along with software to seemlessly play them back without transition interruptions? Or do you first spool them back from the 3 discs to your HDD, and play from there? How long does that take, before you can watch a film?
I create the pieces with my own Chunker software, which simply breaks an mpg file on the nearest 2k block boundary to the size I specify, or to the nearest 188-byte block boundary for a TS file. So any player that can play the file type can pick up at the start of any of the chunks. To play I restore the chunks from DVD to hard disc. It typically takes about 10 minutes to restore a complete movie, though I have some movies with higher data rates (and thus more chunks) that can take twice that, and some smaller that take less. I can recombine the pieces from a command prompt with something like copy /b title.p1of2.mpg+title.p2of2.mpg title.mpg (which is an extra operation that adds to the prep time), or I have an old command-line version of the inverse of my chunker software (clumper) that can be told to start with the current disc and prompt for the remaining DVDs and recombine while reading it in and saving to hard disc under the original name. In practice I usually don't bother to recombine (unless I have company :) ); I use the MyHD (MDP-130) software to playback, and it has a GUI to add a series of files that it will play in sequence, and tho this is not exactly seamless, it is continuous with just a short stutter. If I had three DVD drives I could play up to three chunks straight off the discs that way, but I don't. That would be better; the restore lag time is a bit of drag, but only a severe one when I start watching something and decide I want something else instead, usually it's just a slight excess of time to make popcorn and other pre-show stuff. I have a few hundred GBs of hard disc space in play as "buffer" and usually keep a few things I know I want to watch soon on hard disc for a while.

With films split across multiple discs, and some discs containing portions of multiple films, how do you locate a film you're looking for in the middle (or bottom!) of a stack of 50 discs on a spindle?
I plan captures in an MS Access database/app and generate most of the schedule for my capture sw from that. After capture, chunking, and burning (or taping - I sometimes do a DVHS tape, for a must-have flick on a 5C-prot channel that I can't capture on the PC) I give each disc a serial number, put it in storage sequentially (either on a spindle or in a portfolio - different number sequences), and record the disc serial numbers in the Access database. From time to time I print inventory reports that I can use to pick what to watch and know what discs to pull. Knowing the disc number I want and seeing the number on the top disc it's not too hard to dig into the stack on a spindle, but I really keep most films I expect to go back to in portfolios :o , which is why I felt I needed to do some of the editing I did (I do have hundreds of discs stored on their original spindles tho - mostly to cut out the cost of the portfolios).

[Many folks are happy using HDD's to store their content, though it's a lot more expensive that DVD-Rs. But when (notice I didn't say "if") a drive goes south, that's a lot of movies to lose at once.] When you've got ~5k tapes, storage can become a real b!tch. But I'd like to find an alternative that doesn't impose it's own negative constraints, and I suspect that won't be a real option until we get 15G recordable Tosh-HD blanks, and the PC drives to burn them.
I'm with you on that (need for a better alternative). I don't see any without issues, so I optimized based on my own choices: cost, durability, space, tradeoff some convenience. But I'm afraid it's going to be a lonnng time before those 15GB discs get down to a buck apiece. And I just can't see putting a multi-TB disc farm in my living room at this time (well, maybe in the winter it would be useful).

VideoGrabber

12-12-06, 11:57 PM

Thanks for all the info, Tom. I'm short on time, but:

a) restoring from DVD to HDD in one concatenated file could be done in a single pass, saving a fair amount of time, and eliminating the small glitches.

b) an alternative to the portfolios you might want to check out is Meritline's 500 disc case (http://meritline.com/dark-gold-wooden-500-cd-dvd-case.html), currently running $50 with free shipping. This is a wooden case, with rounded top that looks like a treasure chest. That adds a dime per disc for storage, but retrieval is fast and easy. These have hanging labeled sleeves to hold and protect the discs:

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/meritline_1928_48899764

c) they also have a pair of wallets (http://meritline.com/180-073-002.html) for $18 with free shipping, that hold 416 discs. Or two pair (832 discs) for $28.

My personal favorite is a 510-capacity unit in black plastic and aluminum (currently out of stock), for $40 delivered:

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/meritline_1924_186136796

These are stackable and rugged. Interestingly, I just scanned their site and found quite a few more large-capacity units than I was aware of, including hand-crafted bamboo for $40 (http://meritline.com/hand-crafted-bamboo-wood-500-cd-dvd-case.html), 1200-disc aluminum for $120 (http://meritline.com/1200-aluminium-case-80-wallet.html) with 4 bonus wallets, and a variety of other 350-1000 capacity (http://meritline.com/cd-wallet-storage-holder-500-dvds-above.html) storage cases.

- Tim

the_tom

12-13-06, 12:40 AM

a) restoring from DVD to HDD in one concatenated file could be done in a single pass...
c) they also have a pair of wallets (http://meritline.com/180-073-002.html) for $18 with free shipping, that hold 416 discs. Or two pair (832 discs) for $28.
Tim,

(a) yes, I agree it can be done that way

(c) That's what I'm referring to as a "portfolio". I have a few of those very ones from meritline, I started using them after caselogic "improved" their once-great 320 into a piece of trash for the same price. I have felt tempted by that 1200-disc chest, but not bitten on it.

-tom-

shugazer9

12-13-06, 02:17 AM

Tim,
That Meritline 510 case looks interesting. Do the sleeves come with it, and if so, are they of the non-scratch variety? Im nowhere near the collector you guys are, but i do have about 4-5K discs of various formats that i would like to consolidate. I currently am using thin jewel cases and fold a regular sized spine label around the case.
Rick.

VideoGrabber

12-13-06, 06:50 PM

Rick,

Yes, it comes with 255 sleeves (1 disc in front, 1 in back) for the 510 disc capacity. I've never scratched a disc in one. They're soft plastic, and billed as "self-cleaning" (whatever that means). They're really quite a bargain, since buying the sleeves separately runs about $4.50 for a pack of 10. And even at hundred-quantities, they're still 22c each.

They have the silver version of these in stock ATM for $50 (after coupon and free shipping). But the 720-capacity unit would be a better deal, at $60. (8.3c each disc, vs. 9.8c) They switch the free-shipping around, from time to time, but without it they're a lot more expensive.

I should mention that I've never completely filled one of mine yet, and I saw some buyer comments on the 1000-unit version indicating they didn't have enough room to fit all 1000 discs in.

- Tim

P.S. I think the "self-cleaning" refers to the micro-fiber cloth in the center, that the data side of a disc slides across. I've never put any of my double-sided discs in these, so don't know how they'd fare from sliding in and out. But all those discs are in 300-unit changers (the reason I bought them in the first place), so I don't need a case to store them in.

VideoGrabber

12-14-06, 02:30 AM

Tom,

I was going to PM you, but I see you have that turned off. So I'll just mention here that I appreciate your comments re: the viability of archiving to multiple DVD-Rs. It's not a new idea, and I know a number of folks here have been doing it that way for quite a while.

But the main "lightbulb moment" I got from your comments was that if the files were split appropriately, it would be possible to completely fill each disc for 100% utilization, with 0 slack factor. I don't know why that never occurred to me before, but I had always thought in terms of using 3 discrete discs for a film needing 2.1 discs worth of space. Since every film is going to require multiple discs anyway (most of them spanning portions of 3), there's no real reason for keeping them discrete. This is a big win in both the space and cost departments.

So, thanks! for helping me think outside the (tape) box. :) I'll be pondering this over the holidays, and may be interested in getting a copy of your Chunker utility next January, if it's available. Otherwise I may whip up a version of my own.

- Tim

the_tom

12-14-06, 12:01 PM

Tom,

I was going to PM you, but I see you have that turned off. So I'll just mention here that I appreciate your comments re: the viability of archiving to multiple DVD-Rs. ...
Tim,

Thanks for the good words. I turned on PM, and I'll send you one soon...

-tom-

mtallent

12-18-06, 01:01 PM

OK, here is the way I archive HDTV. I record TS files and edit with VideoRedo and remove any null packets. I then scan with M2R to log any errors and I try to re-record if there are any errors. If I cannot get any error free recordings, then I use VideoRedo to cut out the error free parts and then join them back to make a error free file. The frame accurate editing makes the cuts invisible. I then split into 100 MByte segments using HDTV2MPEG. Then use Quickpar to create 10% repair files for the recording in case I get bad sectors on the DVD archive. I then burn the segmented file with parity files onto DVD+R disks. If the file needs 3 disks I then put about equal amounts on each disk. I have found that most burning and reading errors occur near the outside edge of the disks so rather than having 2 full disks and 1 nearly empty they are all about the same amount of data. The disks are then put into one paper sleeve and if it is more than 4 disks then I use a tyvek sleeve.

I use an old simple database program to input the title and some other info on the recording. The program assigns a sequential number to the recordings. I place the paper sleeve onto shelves and then place a heavy paper tab with the disk numbers every 10 sleeves. This is hard to explain, but what you end up with is rows of paper sleeves with disks and a number tab sticking out every 10 disks. I then print out the title list sorted by alpha title. Then if I need a certain title I look it up on the list to get the number for example 954, go to the shelf find the number 950 tab and then count over 4 disk sleeves and there it is (usually), if I am going to leave the out for some time, then I write the number on the paper sleeve. This is very cheap, I already had the shelves for my old VHS recordings, the paper sleeves are 3 cents each and usually have one per recording.

When I want to retrieve a recording, I have to read in each disk into the computer, if there are any read errors I can reconstruct the corrupt data with the parity files. If I want to play the file I can use TheaterTek to play the segmented files or use VideoRedo or HDTV2MPEG to re-combine into one file. If I want to copy the recording over to a D-VHS tape I use VideoRedo to combine the segmented files and add null packets to make the 19.4 mbps rate that the D-VHS needs for proper recording.

I have been making HD-DVD's for some of the recordings to play in my Toshiba HD-DVD player which make the whole process much easier.

Mike T

TexasGamer

12-30-06, 08:00 AM

Ok, admittedly I know little about the D-VHS system, and am contemplating jumping in with the purchase of the 5U. I'm just wondering if its possible to record to D-VHS with standard def. analog content, be it the internal tuner, or content over the s-video/RCA inputs? Would there even be any benefit to doing so as opposed to recording standard def. to S-VHS?

Also, does the record quality of standard old VHS on the 5u compare to other mfg. VCRs?

Thanks for your time and patience.

TG

oleus

12-30-06, 09:55 AM

does anyone else have problems using the 34-- motorola boxes (i just got a 3416) with their jvc decks?

i have both a 5u and a 30K and both are having problems with the firewire output of the 3416. it will look fine for a minute then break up into pixel bursts every few seconds...it's like this whether i am recording or not, and is repeatable on the tapes when i go back to check.

i will bring my other 6412 back into my main setup if i can't fix this problem, i never had archive problems with my 6412.......

tkmedia2

12-30-06, 10:23 PM

I'm just wondering if its possible to record to D-VHS with standard def. analog content, be it the internal tuner, or content over the s-video/RCA inputs? Would there even be any benefit to doing so as opposed to recording standard def. to S-VHS?

Yes, on all those. You can record SD in D-VHS mode on D-VHS tapes or S-VHS tapes. You get an increased picture quality in D-VHS mode compared to recording in S-VHS mode as well as longer record time.

Also, does the record quality of standard old VHS on the 5u compare to other mfg. VCRs?

I'd say they are about the same, but for most people it would be better because of the crap quality VCR's most people own.

Check out wikipedia link for more info on length.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-vhs

replayrob

01-13-07, 10:46 AM

Hi all
I'm considering a HM-DH5U. Read this whole thread, and I have a few questions...
I'd like to connect it to my SA4200HD STB from Cablevision Long Island via firewire. The SA4200HD's firewire port is active as I can capture HD .ts stream on my computer. For some reason, DVHScap crashes after 30-40 seconds w/1081i content. That’s where the HM-DH5U comes in.

Is it reasonable to assume that I should be able to record HD channels from the SA4200HD to the HM-DH5U via firewire that are marked "CCI=free" and "EMI=free" on the SA4200HD using a DVHS tape in the HM-DH5U then upload that recorded program to my computer via firewire from the HM-DH5U?
I'm particularly interested in the UHD channel which is 1080i - the channel attributes for UHD shows "CCI:free" and "EMI:free" on the SA4200HD "1394 INFORMATION" screen .

I don't mind investing $500+ in a HM-DH5U, but it would be exclusively used for recording then uploading the few encrypted 1080i HD channels I'd like to record so I have to be sure about uploading the recorded content to my computer.

Thanks in advance!
RR

replayrob

01-14-07, 09:40 AM

Anyone for the above question ??

Thanks....

shugazer9

01-14-07, 11:03 AM

I doubt you would be able to dump from D-VHS if 5C is set to Copy Once

oleus

01-14-07, 02:34 PM

Anyone for the above question ??

Thanks....

well as the owner of 2 JVC dvhs decks (a 30K and 5u), i would NEVER purchase another dvhs deck from them. too many issues with the record heads. mine have been in and out of service for the better part of the last 2 years.

oleus

Chris Gerhard

01-14-07, 06:00 PM

Anyone for the above question ??

Thanks....

It may depend on the channel and how it is flagged. Unless you hear from somebody using that particular cable box with your specific cable system, I would say all you can get is a guess.

Chris

replayrob

01-14-07, 10:39 PM

pk442

01-15-07, 04:15 AM

ever since getting my units serviced, playback on my 30K has been great and equal to that of my 5U when it was working.

i am drving my 5u back up to the service center on friday, hope they can actually fix the record heads this time instead of just cleaning it.

My HM-DH5U is 1 month old. I've recorded about 25 moview/tapes. Mostly on Fuji ST-160 tapes, some on the JVC DVHS tape. After recording about 7 tapes, I started to get very numerous breakup/blocking. I thought it was way too soon for it to need a head cleaqning (tBefore DVD, my old Svhs units - I would clean maybe 1-2 times a year). Anyways, I cleaned the heads with a dry head cleaning tape and all was good - for a short while. I got maybe 4 tapes, before I had to clean again. Now its like record 1 tape, and watch it - then clean, or the next tape will not come out well. It does seem that the more expensive DVHS tape does not cause this problem as much - but I have not used them enough to really confirm that.

My question is: Is this normal with a DVHS deck? Am I hurting the unit by cleaning so much? Should I take the cover off and use an alcohol swab? Should I send it back to JVC ?

I have read these issues are common with the JVC units, but not the Mitsubishi ones. Is anyone using a Mitz deck, and then feeding it to a JVC deck just to use the MPEG2 encoder in the JVC deck?

Thanks for your opinions/help - PK :(

mtallent

01-15-07, 05:21 PM

I appreciate the honesty guys!
Didn't have a great feeling about it, so that's why I asked. I'd love to be able to record the encrypted HD channels from my 4200HD STB, but with the spotty success results in this thread, and the less than glowing endorsements above... maybe I'll wait for a better solution.
Thanks again... RR

I would suggest you try again to record to your computer, it is cheaper and you could then find out which channels allow computer recording without buying D-VHS. I have the JVC DH-5U and it records fine from any of the digital channels, but if they are blocked by the 5C, then I cannot copy them from tape to the computer. I used the software in the thread for firewire recording with XP, and used the special install since I did not have the MCE version of XP. I think you should have SP2 and use capDVHS for recording, as I did not have good success using D-VHStool for recording. Also capDVHS has a scheduler for timed recordings.

Also capDVHS has a data info tab and if you start a recording and there is info in this window showing the resolution and bitrate, then you are NOT being blocked by 5C. If the data info stays blank while recording, then you will not be able to play the recording as it is still encrypted.

Mike

mtallent

01-15-07, 08:21 PM

My question is: Is this normal with a DVHS deck? Am I hurting the unit by cleaning so much? Should I take the cover off and use an alcohol swab? Should I send it back to JVC ?

I have read these issues are common with the JVC units, but not the Mitsubishi ones. Is anyone using a Mitz deck, and then feeding it to a JVC deck just to use the MPEG2 encoder in the JVC deck?

Thanks for your opinions/help - PK :(

I have the JVC HD-5U and I have recorded over 100 tapes, most being S-VHS, new and used. I have never cleaned the VCR and so far they play just fine. I just got the Mitsu 2000 D-VHS, but I do not have any experience with it yet, I will use the JVC and/or a Samsung 165 tuner as the mpeg decoder for the Mitsu.

Mike

replayrob

01-15-07, 11:57 PM

I would suggest you try again to record to your computer, it is cheaper and you could then find out which channels allow computer recording without buying D-VHS.
CapDVHS has a data info tab and if you start a recording and there is info in this window showing the resolution and bitrate, then you are NOT being blocked by 5C. If the data info stays blank while recording, then you will not be able to play the recording as it is still encrypted.

Mike
Thanks Mike....
I can record w/CapDVHS- 720p content.. no problem- I can record it all day long on the computer, but with 1080i content- CapDVHS crashes after about 20-60 seconds. It exhibits this exact same behavior on all three of my computers with firewire ports! CapDVHS crashes before the 60 second mark with 1080i content on all three computers with my SA4200HD STB.
I currently have the SA4200HD STB, I've been told on several occasions that it's "buggy" for firewire recordings to computer, I'm going to upgrade to the SA8300HD if I can get to the Cablevision office sometime this week. My channels are marked "CCI:free" and "EMI:free" so it's not a 5C thing, just a $hitty STB thing :D

velocite

01-18-07, 01:13 AM

mike
can you pm me or email me at my gmail account - user velocite
with regards your work at CVS
thanks
john

gary cornell

01-27-07, 12:29 AM

Anyone here know how to set the timer mode to I1 imput so that an HD recording can be done using the timer?

bruce73

01-27-07, 08:26 AM

gary, you can't use the timer for firewire HD recordings. I bought a VCR programmer remote from RadioShack (catalog #15-2996). It's not a very elegant solution, but you can at least program it to turn on the unit & the STB, change to the desired channel, record for a designated amount of time and then turn everything off. Cost less than five bucks, but I don't know if RS still carries it.

gary cornell

01-27-07, 10:08 AM

This will allow unattended recording with I1? I can set the cable box channel and leave the cable box on, it's just being able to get the HD recording when i'm away that i haven't been able to do.

bruce73

01-27-07, 11:28 AM

Basically what happens is that you program the remote with device codes for both the 5U and the STB. You then program a start day/time, channel, and length of recording. At the designated time, it send commands to turn on the STB and change to the selected channel, and to turn on the 5U and start recording. After the allotted record time, it turns off the 5U and STB.

The remote is pretty simplistic and doesn't offer a lot of fine turning. I found that setting a specific channel was effective only part of the time; often the STB wouldn't change channels which might have been a result of the remote's sending the command too quickly. But there is no way to control that. So I would simply choose the channel on the STB before turning it off and setting the channel on the remote to 0 (which won't change the STB as there is no channel 0).

Lately, though, because I like to keep the STB on 24/7 in case I want to record something with my media PC (BTW, haven't found a way to record HD via firewire to both the HTPC and the 5U, but that's another topic... :) ), I've re-programmed the remote with only the code for the 5U. That way, the STB is ignored. The 5U still starts up at the appropriate time, records for the duration and turns off. But I have to remember to change the channel on the STB manually.

gary cornell

01-27-07, 07:39 PM

I checked with Radio Shack- it's not available. Was it made by Logitech or some other company that still makes it?

bruce73

01-27-07, 07:49 PM

No, it's RadioShack branded. I remember I got the last one in the store for around 3 bucks and tax (this was well over a year ago), so I had a feeling then it was a closeout item.

You might try Googling "VCR Programmer" and see what you come up with.

gary cornell

01-27-07, 08:05 PM

Is it an oversight by JVC that doesn't allow HD timer recording or a technology difficulty? Seems to me allowing I1 in the timer menu should not be difficult to do.

Is there a different DVHS model or brand that allows HD timer recording?

bruce73

01-27-07, 11:11 PM

I'm certainly no expert on this. Since the only way to have HD inputted to the 5U is via firewire, I would suspect there is something inherent in that which prohibits timed recordings, and is not simply an oversight by JVC. I have not read of any other brand/model being able to do this.

gary cornell

01-27-07, 11:20 PM

A device that will manually push the record button that will work off a timer would work but i've never seen anything like this and i'm not an inventor.

bruce73

01-28-07, 12:41 AM

Right. Maybe like a Rube Goldberg thing. :D

Chris Gerhard

01-28-07, 08:24 AM

No D-VHS VCR has an internal timer to record from a firewire input. The design called for the STB to control the VCR over firewire, but unfortunately most cable firewire STB's do not do that.

Chris

bruce73

01-28-07, 08:57 AM

Thanks, Chris, didn't know that. Thought it was just limitations of the firewire connection itself.

Do you think my STB (moto6200) is also to blame for my inability to record HD both to the 5U and my media PC (also hooked up via firewire) at the same time? Does it make sense that, while both ports on the STB are active, the stream can only be sent out over one at a time??

oleus

01-28-07, 10:46 AM

Chris Gerhard

01-28-07, 06:02 PM

has anyone else experienced difficulties in getting audio sync'd up correctly for HD recordings with their 5U?

my 5U was in the shop getting its drumm assembly replaced, and in the meantime I got a new cable box (motorola 3416). i am getting HD video recording just fine but no matter what I do I simply cannot get a recording with audio in sync.

are there any tricks/workarounds for this? is it a cable box issue or should i take my 5U back to JVC again?

thanks
oleus

I have had issues with my Motorolla DCT6412III from Comcast. My fix is to uplug the DVR and wait a minute then plug it back it. I just did it about 15 minutes ago and it worked. I don't think the issue is the 5U, although it may be or may be a communication issue between the two. I always check now for lip sync issues before starting the recording, when you record one out of sync, nothing can be done as far as I know.

Chris

Person99

01-29-07, 05:45 PM

I have had issues with my Motorolla DCT6412III from Comcast. My fix is to uplug the DVR and wait a minute then plug it back it. I just did it about 15 minutes ago and it worked. I don't think the issue is the 5U, although it may be or may be a communication issue between the two. I always check now for lip sync issues before starting the recording, when you record one out of sync, nothing can be done as far as I know.

Chris

I have the same issue with my motorola QIP6416 (plus macroblocking that is not in the original). Many times I have to reboot the motorola POS to get it working correct again.

Dave

Person99

01-29-07, 05:48 PM

A device that will manually push the record button that will work off a timer would work but i've never seen anything like this and i'm not an inventor.

Actually, a similar device exists (it does it via IR) and can be used for timer recording on D-VHS machines. It was created for people (read grandma) that could not program their VCRs. It is the Radio Shack VCR Programmer.

You can usually find them on eBay. See number 130052729834.

Dave

a8vdeluxe

01-29-07, 07:45 PM

gary cornell

01-29-07, 08:10 PM

Person99 - thanks. Just bought one, anything i need to know as far as setting it up that Japanese-English instuctions don't make clear or any helpful hints for use with the DH5U?

a8vdeluxe

01-29-07, 08:18 PM

Gary, just plug the damn thing in already. Unless you have Shack's VCR Programmer, don't even bother setting the clock, unless you want to record SD which in my opinion is a mistake. Record that on a DVD recorder, or capDVHS, and save this precious. You may need to buy a firewire cable, and the type may depend on what your tuner has. Buy both (timer/firewire) on E-Bay for a couple dollars each plus shipping. Oh yeah, don't forget to put a GB Packers emblem right next to the HD emblem on your brand spanking new 5u. Now, you should be good to go.

Getting the VCR Programmer to work was fun. I don't remember the details, but it needs to find codes for your JVC 5u, and in my case the HD tuner cable box. A serious limitation is it only programs one show in advance. Also you need to place it pointing towards both the 5u, and tuner. Does not have to be to close since has a strong radio single. If you have a dog or cat put it where they won't eat it. :)

a8vdeluxe

01-29-07, 09:14 PM

Just remember to put a tape in the 5u after you set Shack's VCR Programmer.

The only GB Packer game that I didn't record this year was the one when I used this work around timer but forgot to put in a tape. Doh :o
The VCR Programmer does work though, and can be had on E-Bay for a couple bucks.

Still 15 out of 16 games, and all in HD is way cool.
Still no answer. Will he or won't he? the forces balance of power wieghs heavily in this decision. Dam it Brett, just go 9 more years like George Balanda did.

Now we just need hacks for getting the DRM copy once/never stuff onto our computers from our tapes. Personally, I use D-VHS for archiving most HD material, but believe that streaming the copy freely High Def. content directly to hard drive is superior to D-VHS because edit/playback features are more interesting on the pc, especially if using software with remote controls. But the obvious point everyone seems to miss is with computer HD files you don't have to waste your time burning to dvd, or waste your money buying a HD burner when you can just play from hard drive. Also, access time of burners is inferior to hard drives, and hd storage is so cheap these days if your worried about losing just back up to another terabyte drive. Who needs a $3000 HD burner - just copy shows to your HD. Ok, so you say you can't buy the latest HD DVDs. Wait awhile, if someone has not done it already, download them to your hard drive. What we really need is a set top high definiton recorder with multiple hard drives that copy everything. Eventually we will have mostly, but that DRM crap is a dam killer.
I also have time warner cable, and none of their boxes allow capturing copy 1 time or copy never to PC, only their OTA equivalent copy freely network channels. Anyone know of any good non-leased, non-satelite DVRs(hacked or otherwise) that can stream copy protected high def. stuff to computer that allows further copying, etc.?
DRM just plain sucks! :mad:
Serously, I'm trying to get over it.

gary cornell

02-01-07, 07:59 PM

Can't get RS vcr programmer to work. Entered codes for JVC vcr and Scientific Atlanta 4200HD cable box, remote showed success both times. It says if test was successful, vcr recorded 10 seconds of ch. 13 or 113. The vcr did not come on to record anything. Seems to me the timer button should be engaged on the JVC unit and since i want to record HD, I1 needs to be used. I'm very confused as to what to do

a8vdeluxe

02-01-07, 08:03 PM

Gary, I have not used mine in awhile, and my clock is not even set anymore. Just keep playing with it. You'll figure it out.

gary cornell

02-01-07, 08:12 PM

I've spent an hr. with it, i don't understand or it doesn't work. Instructions are not clear to me. Only somebody who has done it can explain the sequence clearly.

a8vdeluxe

02-01-07, 08:29 PM

Been too long since I last did it, but I think when you turn off the 5u you need to leave it in I1 mode. Then if timer has correct codes, and timer is set properly, it turns on tHE 5u. But it's all hazy now, and I'm at work so can't recreate. Let me know if you haven't figured it out by weekend. Can give more help if needed then.

gary cornell

02-01-07, 08:48 PM

I'll keep trying, maybe i can call you and you can talk me thru it.

bruce73

02-02-07, 12:46 AM

Gary, what STB are you using? I have a Motorola 6200 which can use codes 0476 and 0276 (I think I'm using 0476 now, but not certain). The 5U can use 0067 or 0008 (I'm using 0067, IIRC).

I did have similar trouble with the first one I bought. Bought a second and it works fine, so the first must have been defective. At any rate, if you do get the thing working, here are a couple of things I've learned:

1) Programming a specific channel was hit or miss with the moto6200. Sometimes it would change to that channel and sometimes not. Better to program the channel selection on the programmer to '0' and set the channel on the STB.

2) After setting up a media PC where I needed to have the STB on 24/7 -- just in case there was something I wanted to record to the PC -- I have since eliminated the code for the STB. Now when I set the programmer for a specific time to record, it will only turn on the 5U (yes, must be set on I1), record the channel I have pre-selected on the STB for the set amount of time, and then turn off the 5U, leaving the STB on. Hardly an elegant solution, but, at least, I can record one show while sleeping or at work.

gary cornell

02-02-07, 09:38 AM

STB is Scientific Atlanta 4200HD for Cablevision in Long Island. I only want to record one channel when i'm not home so if want a game on ESPN, i can the STB on to ch. 736, ESPN HD and leave it on. Getting the Radio Shack 15-1996 vcr programmer to turn on the JVC DH5U is the dilemma. So far, the RS has not come on at the time i have set it to do a recording, the display remains blank.

When i entered the codes, 0067 for the JVC and 0008 for the STB, the JVC started to play and the STB changed channels so i think it is communicating but perhaps different codes are needed, don't know yet.

The RS doesn't come on, codes, not sure, also, JVC timer mode must be used in normal recording for unattended recording, this RS doesn't require JVC timer mode to be selected?

Person99

02-02-07, 10:05 AM

I'll keep trying, maybe i can call you and you can talk me thru it.

Gary, it sounds like you are doing it all wrong.

You can't use the VCR programmer to change your VCR station. Let's say your cable box is I-1. Tune your VCR to I-1, then turn it off.

Now, the programmer just needs to turn the VCR on and start recording. Don't program it to change channels.

I think most of us don't use the programmer to turn on the cable box. We just leave the cable box on the station that is to be recorded.

Dave

gary cornell

02-02-07, 10:15 AM

Right, i leave the cable box on to the ch. i want, leave the vcr in off position except that neither the vcr comes on and no display on the RS when it's suppossed to turn on the vcr. Just to be clear, I DON'T engage the JVC timer button?

Person99

02-02-07, 11:21 AM

Just to be clear, I DON'T engage the JVC timer button?

No, you DON'T.

The JVC cannot do timer recordings from firewire inputs so you should not engage the time at all. From the JVC's persective, it should just be off, then a remote just turns it on (it comes on to the last input it was on--I-1) and hits "record" then a couple ours later hits "stop" and turns it off. That is all this VCR programmer should be doing:

1) Power on JVC
2) Send record
3) Send stop
4) Power off JVC

Dave

gary cornell

02-02-07, 11:33 AM

Well, some progress- just tryed again to get the DVHS to come on and record- nothing happened but my JVC SVHS on a lower shelf came on and started recording. The SVHS was always off prior to this and i was suprised to see it come on at 11:20am which is the time i had set the event for. I assume the RS works now, just have to get it to communicate with the DVHS better. Setting up the RS with the DVHS, the DVHS did come on play tape for 10 seconds so i assume code 0067 is ok.

bruce73

02-02-07, 11:52 AM

Unless I'm misunderstanding your post, if your second unit (the SVHS) is respoding to 0067, you will need another, unique code for the DVHS, right?

gary cornell

02-02-07, 11:53 AM

Just tryed again, now the DVHS came on at the event time but didn't record. Had 0 on the remote as channel, imput showing on DVHS is Line 1.

gary cornell

02-02-07, 12:23 PM

Getting closer, set RS to ch 3 and DVHS came on and recorded but imput switched fom I1 to ch 3 so still no HD.

gary cornell

02-02-07, 03:46 PM

3 hrs. later, still can't get it to work- this is exasperating.

Person99

02-02-07, 05:34 PM

Getting closer, set RS to ch 3 and DVHS came on and recorded but imput switched fom I1 to ch 3 so still no HD.

You should not be setting the RS to any channel. When programming it, don't touch the channel button.

a8vdeluxe

02-02-07, 07:00 PM

3 hrs. later, still can't get it to work- this is exasperating.

Gary,
Try throwing the shack off a 100 story building.
Sorry, couldn't resist. Will give detail on how I do
this weekend, though 99's method seems the
most familiar.

bruce73

02-02-07, 07:26 PM

Also, Gary, when you program the RS, you are hitting the final button (I forget now what it's called) twice, right? The first time it says "Success" and the second it confirms what's been programmed.

gary cornell

02-02-07, 08:01 PM

Yes. I emailed Dave and i learned not to program the cable code. Since i previously did and not seeing a delete button, i entered 0000 for the cable code.

I went thru steps 9-11 on pg. 7 of the instruction booklet, this time recording came on in I1. Bad news, error box cannot decode audio or video use set top box or HDTV tuner (200)

Tryed again and this time JVC did not even come on. GGGRRRR

gary cornell

02-02-07, 10:28 PM

More weirdness - changed JVC code to 0206 and ran test, everything ok. Set to record using ch. 0 on the remote. Tryed a few times, either JVC comes on in I1 and doesn't record or play or it comes on in I1 and then switches to L1 AND THEN RECORDS.

a8vdeluxe

02-03-07, 10:20 AM

Dam, I lost my VCR Controller instructions(wife probably threw out). Maybe someone could scan instructions and copy here? I have an SA 3250hd box but can't find codes using for it or the 5u. Also forgot how to set clock on this piece of **** timer. Oh well, since it says today is Monday, I set to record that day, and it eventually worked. I use 99's method, and leave the cable box on, and 5u off. The only difference is that somehow I can program whatever HD channel that I want and the controller switches the cable box channel, possibly via the 5u. Otherwise no difference, hope all this makes some sense. I can't say that I used the scientific method, but it has worked for the few times that I've used it.

1. Leave cable box on, 5u unit off making sure I1 was the last mode you used, and that you've left a SVHS or DVHS tape in the 5u.
2. Set VCR Controller timer, including HD channel in my case. Don't forget to lock settings two times. Always verify timer settings by pressing lock a third time. Place shack timer pointing at 5u.

Obviously, test a few times first especially if this is for the Super Bowl.
THE BEARS STILL SUCK, THE BEARS STILL SUCK...THE BEARS STILL SUCK.

gary cornell

02-03-07, 04:01 PM

No, doesn't solve the problem, can get DVHS to come on in I1 while i leave cable box on to desired channel- why doesn't the DVHS come on and start recording? Yes DVHS tape is in machine.

a8vdeluxe

02-03-07, 04:23 PM

If you had the 5u coming on before, and not now your obviously leaving something out now.
Other than the obvious, the only other suggestion I have is, as stated in previous post, not to program to channel 0 - that method never worked for me. I set the shack to an hd channel(ie 567 espn). This may solve your problem of coming on in i1 and swithing to standard def(ie channel 0). You will also have to find correct code for your cable box, and then try. Good luck, and let me know if it works for you.

"500 channels and nothing worth recording"

gary cornell

02-03-07, 04:38 PM

It's not switching to SD, just comes on in I1 and stays in I1.
I was told not to set the cable code and previously when i did, the DVHS did not even power on, others here say not to and i don't see how this would help since the problem is record mode isn't being activated when it powers on. When i do test 1 it fails, in test 2 it switches to ch. 13 as per instructions and records so it does go into record during set-up.

a8vdeluxe

02-03-07, 05:02 PM

It could be that the shack timer has no codes for your newer model SA cable box.

All I can say is that this method works for me every time.
:)

gary cornell

02-03-07, 05:16 PM

I'm not using cable code as i leave box on. FWIW, remote turns on older SVHS model on lower shelf and it does record.
Tryed leaving DVHS on ch. 3 to see if it made any difference- came on but didn't record.
DVHS responds to 2 codes of the 4 given but doesn't go into record for either.

a8vdeluxe

02-03-07, 05:31 PM

Yes, i leave cable box on as well.
Did you try all box codes, and put in an HD channel
If so, and it did not work mail it to me so I can
throw off 100 story building.

gary cornell

02-03-07, 10:07 PM

bruce73

02-03-07, 11:14 PM

Seriously, do yourself a favor and try to find another one (eBay?). As I said earlier, the first one I bought didn't work either, but the second has performed as expected. It could easily be an FU'd unit.

gary cornell

02-03-07, 11:21 PM

Bruce- deleted last question as i got it to work shortly thereafter so it was no longer appropriate.

a8vdeluxe

02-04-07, 01:47 PM

bruce73

02-04-07, 02:42 PM

SUCCESS!!!

Kept trying, after 2 days, it now records I1. Weird, setting it up the final time, it never changed to ch. 13 or 113 as the instructions say. It stayed in I1 and recorded this way for all 4 tests.

I wonder if people who buy universal remotes to control all their equipment realize set-up can be quite time consuming and exasperating.
Congrats, Gary!

I'm curious though about a couple of things:

1) With all the trouble you were having with the setup, getting 5U to record to the test channels, did you have the input on I-1 before you started setting up the codes, etc. on the programmer?

2) When programming a recording, were you using the VCR channel change button or the STB channel change button? The former would control the VCR's (SD) tuner, while the latter, the STB's. Just wondering if somehow that would have muddled things up.

Anyway, my OCD aside (I always need to know exactly why something didn't work, not just being happy it finally is), good for you. :)

gary cornell

02-04-07, 03:03 PM

Yes, always had it set to I1.

Question 2 more difficult to answer. I think i had vcr ch. 0 when i did the 4 tests and it recorded I1 each time and not 13 or 113. Now that it works, i see CBLSAT in upper right on the remote and i use ch. 0 when programming a recording.

After 2 days and repeating and repeating and pushing and pushing you're just not sure what sequence or button you pushed at the magic moment that got it to work. More like i stumbled correctly.

Person99

02-05-07, 09:35 AM

Jediphish

02-05-07, 09:53 AM

I have a Pioneer Elite Pro-HD1130 with functioning TVGOS and 2 i.Link connections.

What D-VHS deck should I be looking for that is compatible with this TV so I can record OTA ATSC using timer functions (which are supposed to be built into the connection between the TV and deck, according to the TV's manual).

Thanks!

eric102

02-05-07, 09:57 AM

I'm using Mitsubishi 2000 and 1100 D-VCR's with my Pioneer 5040, I would assume they would work with the Elite.

Jediphish

02-05-07, 05:33 PM

I'm using Mitsubishi 2000 and 1100 D-VCR's with my Pioneer 5040, I would assume they would work with the Elite.

Are you able to set up timer recordings with those decks through the Pioneer's menu controls?

eric102

02-05-07, 05:39 PM

Yes, but for some reason the Pio won't turn the VCR's on or off. I just have to remember to turn them on before a recording.

Jediphish

02-05-07, 07:06 PM

Yes, but for some reason the Pio won't turn the VCR's on or off. I just have to remember to turn them on before a recording.

Interesting. That's exactly the opposite of the way regular VCRs timer recordings worked (where you had to make sure the unit was turned off).

Is one of the two Mitz units you have better suited than the other? Which is newer?

eric102

02-05-07, 08:38 PM

It could just be some quirk in my Pio's timer function. The TV can turn the VCR's on or off manually with the TV's remote, just not automatically with the timer. My Mitsu TV doesn't care what state the VCR is in, it records to it whether its on or off.

I haven't seen any 1100's for sale recently, still some 2000's out there though, E-Bay, Walts TV, ABC Warehouse. For digital recording it doesn't matter which you use, for analog the 2000 has more functions, S-Video and a better remote.

Jediphish

02-06-07, 09:20 AM

Star56

02-06-07, 09:41 PM

Eric102 - thanks for your suggestions, but I think I'd like to go with a JVC deck, as from what I've read, those are the only ones that can play D-Theater. I probably won't use this feature much, but would like to have it available.

I'm still confused about the various JVC models. Anyone who's an expert on them that can chime in will be appreciated. Thanks.

B&H still sells the 5U new. Would I be better off with a 3000 or a 4000 used?

Again - I'd only be using it connected to my Pioneer Elite Plasma via i.Link to record OTA HD broadcasts. Thanks!!

EDIT - after seeing how cheap the Mitz units are, I think DTheater may be a bit of an over-indulgence, so your suggestions for the Mitz units are appreciated.

I own two 3000's and a 5U. They all perform very well. I record using the 3000's and playback using the 5U.

One difference is an obscure issue regarding the audio buffering on the 3000 machines. On some channels, I get impeccable recordings on the 3000 but upon plyback...I get random, non repeatable audio drops. Same tapes played back on the 5U eliminates 99% of the drops ( in some cases 100%). From researching the issue it seems there was an audio buffer issue with the 3000 on playback. Never read of a solution. I still occasionally use the 3000 for playback...the drops are not very often and not a big issue. As long as the recordings are flawless and playback flawless on other machines...i can live with the issue.

eric102

02-06-07, 10:53 PM

EDIT - after seeing how cheap the Mitz units are, I think DTheater may be a bit of an over-indulgence, so your suggestions for the Mitz units are appreciated.

No problem, glad to help. The Mits 2000 is a great value if you have a firewire TV, you can get 3 of them for the price of 1 JVC 5U :)

shanewalker

02-08-07, 11:27 AM

I got my JVC DT100 from eCost for an incredibly good price...and I'm glad I did. It's been great so far. I really like having the built-in tuner, even though w/ E* carrying locals now it's a bit moot.

I only wish you could get these last JVC models at more reasonable prices...but I'd say buy whatever fits your needs. I'm looking to pick up a 2nd D-VHS deck myself and I'm contemplating used/new and what model feels most comfortable. My gut says the 5U new is a sound buy, esp. at the B&H price...but when those less expensive 40000s show up on eBay, hmm....

Jediphish

02-12-07, 09:34 AM

I'm using Mitsubishi 2000 and 1100 D-VCR's with my Pioneer 5040, I would assume they would work with the Elite.

Eric,
An article I read in UltimateAV magazine wrote that the Mitz unit does not have a digital audio output, meaning the only way to hear the Dolby Digital track was through the i.Link connection.

I don't use the speakers on my TV, instead I route all audio signals through my AV receiver to external speakers. I do have a digital audio connection from my TV to the AV receiver, so that I can hear the audio when watching the set's internal ATSC tuner. Based on your experience, will the audio from the Mitz travel over the i.Link to my TV and pass through on to the AV receiver through the TV's digital audio output? Our TV's are similar, so I'm hoping you have this same sort of setup and can comment. Thanks!

eric102

02-12-07, 10:14 AM

Eric,
An article I read in UltimateAV magazine wrote that the Mitz unit does not have a digital audio output, meaning the only way to hear the Dolby Digital track was through the i.Link connection.

I don't use the speakers on my TV, instead I route all audio signals through my AV receiver to external speakers. I do have a digital audio connection from my TV to the AV receiver, so that I can hear the audio when watching the set's internal ATSC tuner. Based on your experience, will the audio from the Mitz travel over the i.Link to my TV and pass through on to the AV receiver through the TV's digital audio output? Our TV's are similar, so I'm hoping you have this same sort of setup and can comment. Thanks!

Yes, use the TV's digital audio out to your receiver.

Jediphish

02-12-07, 11:03 AM

Yes, use the TV's digital audio out to your receiver.

Pass through via different connections isn't always guaranteed, but since these are both digital, I guess I should have assumed it would work. Thanks!

bar_knee

03-20-07, 03:40 PM

bar_knee

03-20-07, 10:25 PM

Gary (if you are still out there, or anybody else),

I'm going through a similar situation with the RS VCR Programmer. What code did you use for the 5u? Did you accept Test 1, or continue to Test 2? Did you re-program the 5u for alternate remote codes, or they set to the factory default?

TIA

bar_knee

Nevermind, I figured it out. When setting up the remote codes, a cable box code was programmed in. Then when setting up a program, only the cable box channel # is transmitted. It is assumed that the VCR is tuned to the input (or channel) required to record from an external tuner. So for instance, in which a Moto 3416 responds to code 0810, and a JVC HM-dt100 to 0206, only the channel is changed on the 3416. This allows me to record HD from my STB on my DVHS.

joerod

04-03-07, 07:31 PM

I just ordered a JVC HM DT100U. I will use it in my main theater and my JVC HM5 U will become a future back up. Since I plan to keep my DTHEATER collection for as long as it survives I figured I better get another player. Plus I like the way it looks more than the HM5 U. :)

tempest790

04-04-07, 12:06 AM

Did you get a good deal on the 100U? I currently have a 5U and I saw a 100U on eBay for $800.00 brand new unopened. I haven't seen anyone else with the 100U in stock. It doesn't seem JVC making them any more. 5U are still available though.

I was thinking of getting a 100U to have an extra one as well. My HDTV doesn't have a built in tuner, so the 100U would plug this gap too.

joerod

04-05-07, 04:55 AM

I got a very good deal. I pretty much googled it and then made some calls. Got it for less... ;)

joerod

04-05-07, 04:58 AM

I plan to also use the JVC HM5 U for my outdoor theater. I am trying to keep my theater components either black or as close to it as I can get. Which is another reason I got the 100U. I know spending that much on one at this point seems crazy but when you have almost 100 DTHEATER titles it makes sense. :)

myhui

09-04-07, 12:20 AM

sneals2000

09-04-07, 05:58 AM

There are very few TVs that accept i.Link inputs now.

Does that mean we must play back the tape via HDMI output of the D-VHS decks?

Or is a 8VSB RF modulator available that can take i.Link input and put it on a UHF channel to be fed into the TV as if it came frmo a terrestrial broadcast station?

HDMI or Component output from a D-VHS are your only real options if you don't have a display with iLink (or a set top box that will accept an iLink input and output video - if such a thing exists?)

AIUI there are no 8VSB modulators at the consumer price point - the only thing similar was an early satellite to OTA transcoder that one of the satellite providers (Dish I think) offered, which removed the need for their receivers to have HD MPEG2 decoders in them (and thus cost less)

deathstroke

09-05-07, 09:50 PM

I own two 3000's and a 5U. They all perform very well. I record using the 3000's and playback using the 5U.

One difference is an obscure issue regarding the audio buffering on the 3000 machines. On some channels, I get impeccable recordings on the 3000 but upon plyback...I get random, non repeatable audio drops. Same tapes played back on the 5U eliminates 99% of the drops ( in some cases 100%). From researching the issue it seems there was an audio buffer issue with the 3000 on playback. Never read of a solution. I still occasionally use the 3000 for playback...the drops are not very often and not a big issue. As long as the recordings are flawless and playback flawless on other machines...i can live with the issue.

I have a 3000U which I bought off ebay last year. My friend recorded all six Star Wars movies on his Mitsubishi deck. Playing them back on my machine produces random audio dropouts every 5-15 minutes, and it gets worse if I start REW or FF'ing a lot. And on Episode 1, there is a very long audio dropout when playing back TWO different copies he made...his machine plays all the tapes just fine. If I make a recording with my machine, there are some dropouts but fewer than playing a tape made on the Mitsubishi. I am wondering if my deck would still have dropouts if I were able to connect via FireWire, which I can't. If I could, I would have bought Mitsubishi!
So no one has any solutions for this except to buy one of the newer models? How did JVC get away with putting out this junk??? I did notice mine was refurbished, but I am getting the sense it would have problems if it were brand new!

joerod

09-05-07, 09:56 PM

I have never used my HM5 u or DT100 u D-VHS players for recording a single second of HD. I have only used mine to play DTHEATER tapes... They have both worked flawlessly...

xsrsmithx

09-05-07, 11:08 PM

I have a 3000U which I bought off ebay last year. My friend recorded all six Star Wars movies on his Mitsubishi deck. Playing them back on my machine produces random audio dropouts every 5-15 minutes, and it gets worse if I start REW or FF'ing a lot. And on Episode 1, there is a very long audio dropout when playing back TWO different copies he made...his machine plays all the tapes just fine. If I make a recording with my machine, there are some dropouts but fewer than playing a tape made on the Mitsubishi. I am wondering if my deck would still have dropouts if I were able to connect via FireWire, which I can't. If I could, I would have bought Mitsubishi!
So no one has any solutions for this except to buy one of the newer models? How did JVC get away with putting out this junk??? I did notice mine was refurbished, but I am getting the sense it would have problems if it were brand new!

Have you tried using a JVC cleaning tape? Works for me most of the time.

Steve

shugazer9

09-06-07, 02:14 AM

I taped the SW movies for myself and my friend. They played fine on my 5U (A few dropouts, but within an acceptable range) The tapes i made for my friend, when played back on his 30k, had some horrible AV freezeups. Try and pick up a 5U. I have found mine to be more stable and it has a better picture than the 30K via HDMI.

Star56

09-06-07, 04:04 AM

I have a 3000U which I bought off ebay last year. My friend recorded all six Star Wars movies on his Mitsubishi deck. Playing them back on my machine produces random audio dropouts every 5-15 minutes, and it gets worse if I start REW or FF'ing a lot. And on Episode 1, there is a very long audio dropout when playing back TWO different copies he made...his machine plays all the tapes just fine. If I make a recording with my machine, there are some dropouts but fewer than playing a tape made on the Mitsubishi. I am wondering if my deck would still have dropouts if I were able to connect via FireWire, which I can't. If I could, I would have bought Mitsubishi!
So no one has any solutions for this except to buy one of the newer models? How did JVC get away with putting out this junk??? I did notice mine was refurbished, but I am getting the sense it would have problems if it were brand new!

The solution I came up with (eliminates the random audio drops) is to hook a Mits 2000 to the 3000 (firewire) and use the component outs of the 3000 to the display. The Mits produces a transport stream that is free from these audio glitches and the 3000 mpeg2 decoder passes it without adding any dropouts. I picked up two Mits units at ABC warehouse for around $90 a unit ( new in box...about 6 months ago).

old64mb

09-19-07, 03:38 PM

I've actually never had audio dropouts on my 3K, but I've connected via firewire. Firewire with these decks is rolling the dice on whether or not they crash your chain, of course, but my only problem has been the occasional massive pixellation when I use a bad tape and haven't cleaned for a while.

I love Star56's solution. Brilliant.

Now if I could only convince 169time to figure out a way to hack the Series 3 and add a firewire output...

POWERFUL

01-12-09, 11:40 PM

Anyone ever encountered this problem on a DT100? The video and audio goes in and out. On the front display: the VCR light blinks and the P indicator goes on and off. It frustrating and annoying and I hope someone has the answer to how to solve this.

joerod

01-13-09, 07:27 AM

Never on mine. Has it been cleaned in awhile? I am actually contemplating selling my 92 DTHEATER tapes and deck for a great price...

POWERFUL

01-13-09, 01:57 PM

Does that include Phone Booth?

joerod

01-13-09, 02:11 PM

Yes, unopened I believe.

POWERFUL

01-13-09, 11:01 PM

Seriously? Please PM me, I believe we can do some business.

whines83

01-15-09, 09:20 PM

i have a box of 20 quantegy s-vhs broadcast tapes can someone use these on here for d-vhs tapes or are they just for studio use only??

if you know more uses for these tapes please pm me..

gar3

02-27-09, 09:00 AM

Hi all - Just picked up a refurbished JVC HM-DH5u and I've got a question about head cleaning. I'll be using the machine mostly for VHS and SVHS viewing/recording and I was under the impression I could simply use my previous cleaning tapes and all would be OK; however, in the manual for the DH5u it clearly states only to use a DVHS video head cleaner. Would it be fine to use my normal head cleaning tapes or do I truly need to seek out a DVHS one? Thanks for your time.

xuniman

03-08-09, 02:43 PM

Is anyone interested in some blank tapes? I have 5 JVC DF-300 tapes, 5 Panasonic DF-360 tapes and 10 Fuji S-VHS 120 minute tapes. All are brand new un-opened tapes I purchased in Japan a couple of years ago.

I also have a bunch of other used tapes, mixture of D-VHS and S-VHS with recordings on them and a few D-Theater tapes.

My deck broke down and I decided I don't want to hassle getting it fixed.

PM me if interested.

T-BoneZ

03-14-09, 08:10 AM

eric102

03-14-09, 10:37 AM

3 Questions for the experts here ... *WINK*

- Was there a model released with FW(Out ?) (Ie. One that I could connect to the PC and capture digital.?)
- Analog tapes are converted by the video to digital.. Right ??
- Anyone knows where to find one ???

#3- B&H Photo is still selling refurb 5U's and 40000's at a decent price and of course you can always do the e-bay crap-shoot.

#2- I don't know, I've never had an analog tape in my decks.

#1- As far as I know all the JVC D-VHS decks have firewire, for sure the DT100, 5U, 40000 and 30000. Also Mitsubishi's 2000 and 1100.

gsr

03-14-09, 11:09 AM

3 Questions for the experts here ... *WINK*

- Was there a model released with FW(Out ?) (Ie. One that I could connect to the PC and capture digital.?)
- Analog tapes are converted by the video to digital.. Right ??
- Anyone knows where to find one ???
eric102 already addressed points 1 and 3.

For point 2, the answer is yes but there's a bit of a catch (isn't there always?). Actually performing the capture on the PC side can be difficult to get working. I had it working great on an XP MCE system and then upgraded to Vista Ultimate. Since the upgrade, I haven't been able to get it working again. I'm not sure if I don't have the correct driver installed for the DVHS deck (I've got the 40000 model), if CapDVHS just won't work with Vista or if it's something else. If anyone has had success getting this to work with Vista, please share the details of how you got it working. I still have some older VHS tapes that I'd like to capture and may have to resort to doing a dual boot to make it work.

GrgurMG

03-14-09, 11:24 AM

<<question moved to this thread>>

I recently purchased a JVC HM-DH5U D-VHS recorder. I am a TWC subscriber in the NY/NJ area with a Explorer 3250HD cable box.

I attempted to connect my VCR to the STB and low an behold it detects the 3250HD tuner and displays all channels (SD and HD) fine. Now I then proceeded to test out recording. I couldn't find any of my S-VHS tapes and could not get my hands on a D-VHS tape immediately to test... so I bought a Sony Brand Premium VHS tape and melted some S-VHS recongnition holes into it. The player detects it as S-VHS.. I set it to D-VHS mode... everything appears fine. I hit record... everything's looking good... it's says it's recording in HD.. fine.

THEN when I go to play back the tape I get nothing... appears black... sometimes the Dolby light on the VCR comes on but I never get any picture or sound.... sometimes it kicks back into S-VHS mode and I get snow.

Anyhow, my question is... any suggestions as to the weekest link here? Is it the STB? If I get the HD picture streaming through (STB>Firewire>VCR>HDMI>TV=Clear HD Picture) does that mean it should record fine or is there some sort of no_record flag proventing recording ever though the HD picture streams fine. Obviously the Firewire ports are active. Could it be the fact I'm using VHS or you think it's an incompatibility with the VCR? I'm thinking it's either the VHS or the VCR, cuz I'm having trouble recording from a computer too. Any expertise and a point in the right direct would be appreciated.....

PS: I believe B&H may no longer be selling the HM-DH5U... primarily because I think I took their last one ;)

RoccoP

03-15-09, 07:06 PM

CKNA

03-16-09, 09:06 AM

RJRSW

05-24-09, 11:54 AM

Does anyone know where I can still get a DT100U or a 5U as a referbished or new unit. B&H used to have the 5U but they are now gone. Any other sites anyone is aware of where you can pick one of these units up at a good price?

Thanks

--Rocco--

Rocco

I sent you a PM so check your messages if you are still looking for a new HM-DT100U D-VHS VCR with Built-in ATSC Tuner.

Bob

boothman

06-16-09, 05:58 PM

Tried to dub straight from Sony hc9 hd (1440x1080) camcorder to Jvc 5U via firewire. Signal passed through to HD rptv fine via component. Vcr recognized Sony camcorder but recording stuttered on playback with audio dropping out. Tried rebooting all devices and result was always the same-not a smooth recording. I thought the old JVC 720p camcorder worked from their literature. Is their something about the 1080i hdv standard that the deck isn't recognizing? Any ideas?

mtallent

06-17-09, 11:39 AM

The HDV mpeg2 format on the HC9 records at 25 mbps and this rate is to high to record on the D-VHS. I believe the firewire input is limited to the 19.3 mbps of ATSC HDTV. The D-Theater pre-recorded tapes had a higher bit rate, but I have never been able to record higher than 19.3 mbps on my HD-5U without break-up.

Mike T

boothman

06-17-09, 08:15 PM

Could I convert sony bit rate down in a computer so that the JVC could copy it in HD?

mtallent

06-18-09, 11:03 AM

Yes, you could re-encode it and there are some free mpeg2 encoders around try Google. You might also think about a hard drive media player like the Western Digital HD player, they use USB storage like hard drive or Flash drive and are usually on sale at Best Buy for $100, they only output HD using an HDMI connector. I have one and now I only keep the JVC player because of some older tapes I have not yet put into the computer.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1080840

Check this thread for more info.

Mike T

Gary Murrell

06-21-09, 03:38 PM

Rocco

I sent you a PM so check your messages if you are still looking for a new HM-DT100U D-VHS VCR with Built-in ATSC Tuner.

Bob

care to share with me :)

thanks

-Gary

RJRSW

06-21-09, 03:48 PM

care to share with me :)

thanks

-Gary

Was on the computer when you posted this and have sent you a PM

Thanks
Bob

RJRSW

06-23-09, 03:21 PM

care to share with me :)

thanks

-Gary

Gary

I forgot to mention to you that I have listed the HM-DT100 on a Ebay auction that will be ending June 28th on Sunday evening.

Thanks
Bob

RoccoP

06-28-09, 06:03 PM

Bob,

I did reply back via PM so please get back to me.

--Rocco--

bwer

06-29-09, 03:48 PM

Greetings.

It would appear that every webiste that had the Windows XP driver package for the JVC D-VHS VTRs has disappeared into the void.

Is there any chance that someone here who has the package can upload it to one of the various services (senduit.com, yousendit.com, rapidshare.com, etc) and either post a link here or PM it to me? I'm having an awful time getting my VTR to work properly with my computer, and I would appreciate it massively.

Thank a ton! :)

RJRSW

07-19-09, 01:11 PM

Gary

I forgot to mention to you that I have listed the HM-DT100 on a Ebay auction that will be ending June 28th on Sunday evening.

Thanks
Bob

The HM-DT100 is no longer available, it has sold on the EBay auction for $849

swift1

09-08-09, 11:08 AM

I'm after a HM-DT100U guys, if anyone knows where one can be sourced. I take it that this was the last and best of the D-VHS's.

eric102

09-12-09, 04:17 PM

tbabb

09-12-09, 05:22 PM

I got two of the 5Us if anyone is interested.

Chris Gerhard

09-20-09, 08:14 AM

I have a 30000, 40000, 5U and DT100 in my collection and the only real advantage of the DT100 is the digital tuner. If you don't need that then the 5U is just as good in my opinion for firewire recording or Dtheater playback and the 40000 does everything the 5U does except it has a more primitive front panel display.

Eric

The HM-DH5U has HDMI output, a big advantage over the HM-DH40000U and previous models in my opinion.

Chris

eric102

09-20-09, 12:17 PM

The HM-DH5U has HDMI output, a big advantage over the HM-DH40000U and previous models in my opinion.

Chris

I haven't had any luck with the JVC's HDMI outputs on my two 5U's and DT100, they always seem to have handshake issues of some sort when running through my receivers. Maybe they work better connected directly to a display but I haven't tried it since I run all my components through my receivers first.

Eric

Blasst

09-20-09, 08:03 PM

I have a 30000, 40000, 5U and DT100 in my collection and the only real advantage of the DT100 is the digital tuner. If you don't need that then the 5U is just as good in my opinion for firewire recording or Dtheater playback and the 40000 does everything the 5U does except it has a more primitive front panel display.

Eric

I still have 2 40K's and a 5U.

The 40K looks more masculine than the 5U, which looks like a VHS player to me.;)

I still use them but not as much as years ago, when the HD channels were not compressed all to hell as they are now here on Time Warner LA.

Chris Gerhard

09-25-09, 07:18 PM

I haven't had any luck with the JVC's HDMI outputs on my two 5U's and DT100, they always seem to have handshake issues of some sort when running through my receivers. Maybe they work better connected directly to a display but I haven't tried it since I run all my components through my receivers first.

Eric

I have only run HDMI from the HM-DH5U directly to my display and it worked great but I can't say the picture quality is any different than component.

Chris

braxus

07-30-11, 11:49 AM

Anyone seen any new or used HM-DT100U decks (For North America) around lately? Im looking for one.

qz3fwd

07-30-11, 03:11 PM

Anyone seen any new or used HM-DT100U decks (For North America) around lately? Im looking for one.

I think one was on fleabay a couple weeks/months ago. Dont recall what it went for, though of late DVHS decks have been listed for insane bucks on that site. Try craigslist-you might find an awesome deal.

braxus

07-30-11, 10:46 PM

I think one was on fleabay a couple weeks/months ago. Dont recall what it went for, though of late DVHS decks have been listed for insane bucks on that site. Try craigslist-you might find an awesome deal.

There may be the odd deck sold at a high amount, but many used D-VHS decks go between $125-225. I think the last D100 sold for $133.

qz3fwd

07-30-11, 11:57 PM

I bought 4 new 100's from BH's last year.

braxus

08-04-11, 01:17 AM

I bought 4 new 100's from BH's last year.

I noticed some threads about B&H having them. I missed out. I think I even remember seeing them on the site, but I passed on it at the time. I should have gotten it. Anyway if you notice one coming along somewhere, let me know.

Another question on the 100 deck. It mentions it has Digipure 4MB for VHS and S-VHS. Yet people are saying this unit doesn't have a TBC. I thought Digipure normally came with the TBC as part of it function. Can anyone confirm this unit doesn't have or does have a TBC built in as part of Digipure?

qz3fwd

08-04-11, 07:07 PM

I noticed some threads about B&H having them. I missed out. I think I even remember seeing them on the site, but I passed on it at the time. I should have gotten it. Anyway if you notice one coming along somewhere, let me know.

Another question on the 100 deck. It mentions it has Digipure 4MB for VHS and S-VHS. Yet people are saying this unit doesn't have a TBC. I thought Digipure normally came with the TBC as part of it function. Can anyone confirm this unit doesn't have or does have a TBC built in as part of Digipure?
I couldnt help you there. I only record digital with my VCR's :D

Blasst

08-04-11, 11:13 PM

I think one was on fleabay a couple weeks/months ago. Dont recall what it went for, though of late DVHS decks have been listed for insane bucks on that site. Try craigslist-you might find an awesome deal.

Man you are right on pricing. Someone wants alot of $$ for this D40k
http://cgi.ebay.com/JVC-HM-DH40000U-DVHS-D-VHS-Dtheater-SVHS-S-VHS-VHS-/190560532137?pt=VCRs&hash=item2c5e4af6a9

braxus

08-04-11, 11:21 PM

Man you are right on pricing. Someone wants alot of $$ for this D40k
http://cgi.ebay.com/JVC-HM-DH40000U-DVHS-D-VHS-Dtheater-SVHS-S-VHS-VHS-/190560532137?pt=VCRs&hash=item2c5e4af6a9

Lately most D-VHS decks are selling between $125-225 on Ebay depending on how used it is and if it has the remote or not. The people asking half a grand for their decks are out to lunch, as they have been for sale litterally forever. No one buys them.

braxus

09-02-11, 05:31 PM

qz3fwd

09-02-11, 06:13 PM

Question. If when I get a JVC D-VHS deck (still looking for DT100), how does one decide what speed to record on when coming from a digital cable box? I have a Motorola DCX 3200 with which I have both SD and HD channels on our cable. So how do I know what speed to record on? I know the speed effects the bits per second in terms of the size of files it puts on tape. I would assume SP would be fine for SD programs and XP would be fine for HD programs? If I choose a lower speed, does the deck recompress the data from the digital box to fit the lower bit rate being put on tape?

For digital recording it doesn't matter as you are just dumping the bits from the STB as is to the DVHS deck, so whatever bitrate came out of your cable company is what you get. Its bit-streaming, so an exact copy of what was sent out by the provider is copied to tape. If its 18 Mbps, your tape will have 18 Mbps. If its 8 Mbps, then thats what you get. However I think DVHS inserts null packets so that it is always recording an exact 32 Mbps so that the tape speed is "constant"? 32 mbps is more than you will ever see on any US channel.

braxus

09-02-11, 07:06 PM

TNO821

09-02-11, 08:51 PM

So are you saying it sets the speed itself when recording? Or are you saying you always set it to the maximum speed (XP) no matter what? I would wonder why they offer a speed choice at all if it just records as is.
I'm fairly certain that those speeds you're talking about are only for analog recordings (VHS and S-VHS, not D-VHS).

In order for it to have different quality levels (speeds) for a digital recording, it would need to perform on-the-fly MPEG-2 re-encoding, which I highly doubt those old units would even be capable of (keep in mind they haven't been manufactured since 2005-ish).

eric102

09-02-11, 09:38 PM

Lately most D-VHS decks are selling between $125-225 on Ebay depending on how used it is and if it has the remote or not. The people asking half a grand for their decks are out to lunch, as they have been for sale litterally forever. No one buys them.

This week a 40000 sold for $500 and a DT100 sold for $575. The good ones seem to be selling just fine.

mtallent

09-03-11, 12:05 PM

I'm fairly certain that those speeds you're talking about are only for analog recordings (VHS and S-VHS, not D-VHS).

In order for it to have different quality levels (speeds) for a digital recording, it would need to perform on-the-fly MPEG-2 re-encoding, which I highly doubt those old units would even be capable of (keep in mind they haven't been manufactured since 2005-ish).

You can record analog SD to D-VHS so there is a built in mpeg2 hardware encoder for SD only.

My Motorola DCT6412 cable box has a build date in 2005 and it also has a mpeg2 encoder to output firewire digital SD when tuned to a analog TV channel.

Mike T

braxus

09-03-11, 12:30 PM

This week a 40000 sold for $500 and a DT100 sold for $575. The good ones seem to be selling just fine.

These may of been practically new in box decks. The used ones don't usually fetch that much. In May this year- a DT100 sold for $137.

TNO821

09-03-11, 02:08 PM

You can record analog SD to D-VHS so there is a built in mpeg2 hardware encoder for SD only.
I thought I had tested that and found it to be false...I had recorded analog SD using one of my JVC D-VHS decks and then tried to dump via FireWire to my PC and nothing was dumped. It recorded it analog, not digital. Only digital signals get routed through the FireWire output and I concluded that there was only an MPEG-2 decoder, not an encoder. So anything in the analog domain stays analog.

***Update*** Okay, after some Google-fu it appears that you are correct, sir. I think the reason my test panned out the way that it did is because the D-VHS doesn't convert from the analog domain to the digital domain (correct me if I'm wrong) during playback. I was using a single D-VHS unit, trying to play an analog VHS tape and dump the output to my PC via FireWire. It didn't work (nothing was being routed to the FireWire). I think the D-VHS lacks the ability to play back an analog tape and digitally encode it on-the-fly for output via FireWire, which seems odd to me b/c it has everything that would be required to do that. I guess it's also possible that I goofed something up in my test and reached that conclusion prematurely...I'll have to test it again.

If true, I guess I'd have to use 2 VCR's; one to play the analog tape and then another D-VHS VCR to record it digitally (my assumption being that anything recorded from the D-VHS unit's analog inputs will be digitally encoded). I could then play back the (digital) tape and dump it via FireWire. Or, maybe I could dump it on-the-fly instead of having a 2-step process where I have to record the whole thing and then play it back (I'm a bit doubtful about that working, but it would be a time saver).

Sounds like I have some fun tests ahead of me. If anybody has recommendations on how to get the best quality when converting VHS tapes to digital, please let me know.

qz3fwd

09-03-11, 08:18 PM

I thought I had tested that and found it to be false...I had recorded analog SD using one of my JVC D-VHS decks and then tried to dump via FireWire to my PC and nothing was dumped. It recorded it analog, not digital. Only digital signals get routed through the FireWire output and I concluded that there was only an MPEG-2 decoder, not an encoder. So anything in the analog domain stays analog.

***Update*** Okay, after some Google-fu it appears that you are correct, sir. I think the reason my test panned out the way that it did is because the D-VHS doesn't convert from the analog domain to the digital domain (correct me if I'm wrong) during playback. I was using a single D-VHS unit, trying to play an analog VHS tape and dump the output to my PC via FireWire. It didn't work (nothing was being routed to the FireWire). I think the D-VHS lacks the ability to play back an analog tape and digitally encode it on-the-fly for output via FireWire, which seems odd to me b/c it has everything that would be required to do that. I guess it's also possible that I goofed something up in my test and reached that conclusion prematurely...I'll have to test it again.

If true, I guess I'd have to use 2 VCR's; one to play the analog tape and then another D-VHS VCR to record it digitally (my assumption being that anything recorded from the D-VHS unit's analog inputs will be digitally encoded). I could then play back the (digital) tape and dump it via FireWire. Or, maybe I could dump it on-the-fly instead of having a 2-step process where I have to record the whole thing and then play it back (I'm a bit doubtful about that working, but it would be a time saver).

Sounds like I have some fun tests ahead of me. If anybody has recommendations on how to get the best quality when converting VHS tapes to digital, please let me know.

The reason these JVC decks run soo damn warm is because of the onboard mpeg encoder! You could almost fry an egg on these things, while my Mits/Panny decks run super cool but can only be used with displays that have decoding capability over 1394. Not that thats bad or anything, just limits their interoperability and probably improves their realiability.

gsr

09-03-11, 09:14 PM

I thought I had tested that and found it to be false...I had recorded analog SD using one of my JVC D-VHS decks and then tried to dump via FireWire to my PC and nothing was dumped. It recorded it analog, not digital. Only digital signals get routed through the FireWire output and I concluded that there was only an MPEG-2 decoder, not an encoder. So anything in the analog domain stays analog.

***Update*** Okay, after some Google-fu it appears that you are correct, sir. I think the reason my test panned out the way that it did is because the D-VHS doesn't convert from the analog domain to the digital domain (correct me if I'm wrong) during playback. I was using a single D-VHS unit, trying to play an analog VHS tape and dump the output to my PC via FireWire. It didn't work (nothing was being routed to the FireWire). I think the D-VHS lacks the ability to play back an analog tape and digitally encode it on-the-fly for output via FireWire, which seems odd to me b/c it has everything that would be required to do that. I guess it's also possible that I goofed something up in my test and reached that conclusion prematurely...I'll have to test it again.

If true, I guess I'd have to use 2 VCR's; one to play the analog tape and then another D-VHS VCR to record it digitally (my assumption being that anything recorded from the D-VHS unit's analog inputs will be digitally encoded). I could then play back the (digital) tape and dump it via FireWire. Or, maybe I could dump it on-the-fly instead of having a 2-step process where I have to record the whole thing and then play it back (I'm a bit doubtful about that working, but it would be a time saver).

Sounds like I have some fun tests ahead of me. If anybody has recommendations on how to get the best quality when converting VHS tapes to digital, please let me know.

I've transferred a bunch of old VHS (analog) video tapes to my PC via FireWire on my 40000. That was the primary reason I bought mine.

mtallent

09-03-11, 09:50 PM

I thought I had tested that and found it to be false...I had recorded analog SD using one of my JVC D-VHS decks and then tried to dump via FireWire to my PC and nothing was dumped. It recorded it analog, not digital. Only digital signals get routed through the FireWire output and I concluded that there was only an MPEG-2 decoder, not an encoder. So anything in the analog domain stays analog.

***Update*** Okay, after some Google-fu it appears that you are correct, sir. I think the reason my test panned out the way that it did is because the D-VHS doesn't convert from the analog domain to the digital domain (correct me if I'm wrong) during playback. I was using a single D-VHS unit, trying to play an analog VHS tape and dump the output to my PC via FireWire. It didn't work (nothing was being routed to the FireWire). I think the D-VHS lacks the ability to play back an analog tape and digitally encode it on-the-fly for output via FireWire, which seems odd to me b/c it has everything that would be required to do that. I guess it's also possible that I goofed something up in my test and reached that conclusion prematurely...I'll have to test it again.

If true, I guess I'd have to use 2 VCR's; one to play the analog tape and then another D-VHS VCR to record it digitally (my assumption being that anything recorded from the D-VHS unit's analog inputs will be digitally encoded). I could then play back the (digital) tape and dump it via FireWire. Or, maybe I could dump it on-the-fly instead of having a 2-step process where I have to record the whole thing and then play it back (I'm a bit doubtful about that working, but it would be a time saver).

Sounds like I have some fun tests ahead of me. If anybody has recommendations on how to get the best quality when converting VHS tapes to digital, please let me know.

My HD-5U will encode to digital and output to firewire while playing an analog VHS tape, I tried both VHS and S-VHS playback, works just fine except the audio is mpeg layer 2 and my AVR will not play that so I set Zoom player audio codec to encode to AC3 during playback and the sound was fine.

Mike T

TNO821

09-03-11, 11:38 PM

Huh, maybe I screwed my test up. I'll have to redo it.

dr1394

09-04-11, 09:38 PM

The JVC D-VHS decks also encode and send a 1394 bitstream when the analog inputs (composite and S-Video) are selected.

There is no separate MPEG-2 encoder chip. Almost everything (video decoding, video encoding, video output, video input, 1394) is done on one SoC chip from LSI Logic (Domino 1).

The MPEG-2 encoder in the Motorola DCT-6412 Phase III is essentially the same as the JVC decks. The SoC (Domino 2) is one generation later than the SoC in the JVC decks.

The maximum bitrate that can be recorded from 1394 input is around 25 Mbps (total TS rate).

http://www.w6rz.net/DCP_1108.JPG

http://www.w6rz.net/DCP_1114.JPG

Ron

Steve McD

09-04-11, 10:04 PM

My HD-5U will encode to digital and output to firewire while playing an analog VHS tape, I tried both VHS and S-VHS playback, works just fine except the audio is mpeg layer 2 and my AVR will not play that so I set Zoom player audio codec to encode to AC3 during playback and the sound was fine.

Mike T
The only problem with the DV output when playing an analog tape, is that it doesn't carry a timecode. You have to re-record it onto DV or Digital 8 tape to put the timecode on it. Some digital recorders, such as my Toshiba DVD recorder, will pass this output through to a monitor over HDMI, but will not re-record it.

A computer will convert the non-timecoded DV output from these JVC decks to DV-AVI and add a timecode.

qz3fwd

09-05-11, 04:47 PM

The only problem with the DV output when playing an analog tape, is that it doesn't carry a timecode. You have to re-record it onto DV or Digital 8 tape to put the timecode on it. Some digital recorders, such as my Toshiba DVD recorder, will pass this output through to a monitor over HDMI, but will not re-record it.

A computer will convert the non-timecoded DV output from these JVC decks to DV-AVI and add a timecode.

So when did these devices start supporting DV????
They only handle Mpeg2-TS as far as I understood.

dr1394-Since you know a lot about the JVC decks, if you worked on the HM-DT100U do you know if it implements a proper tuner subunit supporting the Direct Select Information Type command for ATSC tuning?

TNO821

09-05-11, 06:39 PM

So when did these devices start supporting DV????
They only handle Mpeg2-TS as far as I understood.

dr1394-Since you know a lot about the JVC decks, if you worked on the HM-DT100U do you know if it implements a proper tuner subunit supporting the Direct Select Information Type command for ATSC tuning?

While I've never used DV, I see that my JVC 30k's mention it...on the front of the unit (on the lower left) there is a little door that opens to reveal several inputs: S-video, a set of RCA inputs for composite video + stereo audio, and a FireWire IEEE1394a 4-pin connector labeled "i.LINK IN/OUT DV IN"

TNO821

09-05-11, 06:59 PM

Okay, now this is becoming maddening. I re-ran my test, having a JVC 30k play an analog VHS tape while I tried to capture it via FireWire. Nothing is being output. I end up with a 0 kb .ts file. But if I pop in one of my copy-freely D-VHS tapes, it captures just fine.

So, as with my initial tests performed long ago, it appears that analog is stuck in the analog domain and not being converted to digital (or at least not being output via the FireWire). Any thoughts?

Is it possible that the 30k just doesn't do that and the newer models do?

Note: I'm using a single JVC 30k to do this, just popping in a tape, hitting "play", and having CapDVHS record it on my PC. It works fine when the tape is D-VHS (copy-freely obviously, as anything else won't allow the capture), but fails to capture anything if the tape is regular old analog VHS.

I also have another JVC 30k and a Mitsubishi 1100u and a Mitsubishi 2000u which I have not used for these tests. Based on the earlier replies I was hopeful that I was doing something wrong and that the JVC 30k actually is outputting to the FireWire, but now I'm really not sure...the way this test was run, I can't see how I made a mistake; when the tape is D-VHS, the capture is a success, otherwise it captures nothing.

I guess the next logical thing to try is using two D-VHS units and see if that causes it to output to the FireWire...maybe with analog video, the FireWire on the JVC 30k will only do its thing when something is being input to the unit. Based on what I've read here, the JVC's sound like they have better analog video processing chops than the mitsubishi's, does that sound right?

dr1394

09-05-11, 09:18 PM

So when did these devices start supporting DV????
They only handle Mpeg2-TS as far as I understood.

dr1394-Since you know a lot about the JVC decks, if you worked on the HM-DT100U do you know if it implements a proper tuner subunit supporting the Direct Select Information Type command for ATSC tuning?
They all support DV input. The 40K, 5U and 100U do not support DV output. The 30K is a different design, so it may support DV output.

As for the tuner subunit, JVC wrote all the code for AV/C subunits, so I'm not sure what they did on the 100U.

Ron

dr1394

09-05-11, 09:26 PM

Is it possible that the 30k just doesn't do that and the newer models do?

The JVC 30K is definitely a different animal than the 40K, 5U and 100U. It uses a separate MPEG-2/DV encoder chip from C-Cube Microsystems.

I'm not sure if it sends 1394 bitstream from analog tapes. I'm pretty sure it does send 1394 bitstream when the analog inputs are selected.

Ron

TNO821

09-05-11, 10:04 PM

The JVC 30K is definitely a different animal than the 40K, 5U and 100U.

I'm not sure if it sends 1394 bitstream from analog tapes. I'm pretty sure it does send 1394 bitstream when the analog inputs are selected.
Yes, I can now confirm that it does output to FireWire when the analog inputs are used.

For my test I had a JVC 30K play an analog VHS tape and connected to another JVC 30K (using composite video, the old yellow/white/red RCA cables). I had the second JVC 30K record on the HS quality setting. The FireWire output worked great. What I didn't think to check for was if it would still output to FireWire even when not recording. My guess is yes, but I'll have to test it.
***Update*** Yes, it still outputs to FireWire even when not recording.

So, based on some previous comments made in this thread, it sounds like the JVC 40K and 5U D-VHS units would be able to do this all by itself without the need to use analog inputs...is that right? (and I would also guess that the 100U would be the same)

gsr

09-05-11, 10:08 PM

So, based on some previous comments made in this thread, it sounds like the JVC 40K and 5U D-VHS units would be able to do this all by itself without the need to use analog inputs...is that right? (and I would also guess that the 100U would be the same)

The 40K will definitely do this without the need to use 2 units. I have no experience with th 5U, but suspect it would be the same.

TNO821

09-06-11, 12:05 AM

As speculated, the JVC 30K does not need to be recording in order to output to FireWire. But it does require the use of one of its analog inputs, thus the need for another VCR (to feed the JVC 30K's analog input).

braxus

09-08-11, 12:07 AM

Wow guys. Good responses. Interesting reading.

Well just today I won a bid on a non working DT100 deck. It has an intermittent problem in analog playback where the color is in waves according to what he said. Im not sure what he means by waves, but sounds like something in the decoding section gone amiss. He also said the colors were mixed. Any ideas on what this could mean and need fixing? He wasn't able to test the digital section of the deck. Im wondering if the Digipure section may be a bit flaky? He said the problem isn't 100% of the time, but sometimes.

Reason I got the deck was it was only $100 and finding any DT100 deck lately is rare- so I figured I'll get this one and get it repaired. At least I'll have this deck then. No idea on how much use its had either.

Electricpotatoe

09-11-11, 09:49 AM

It looks like the JVC 40K is still in demand. I saw a recent sale on Ebay go for $500.

oleus

09-11-11, 01:37 PM

i wonder if i could get anything for my HM-DH5U ? it has hdmi and dts support (did any other decks have that?) but i can't even find any recent completed ebay auctions as reference. i have a ton of dvhs tapes i recorded over the years i just never find myself playing any of them :-(

eric102

09-11-11, 01:59 PM

qz3fwd

09-11-11, 02:15 PM

The 5U and DT100 both have HDMI and DTS, the 40000 and its clones have DTS but component out for video.

Your 5U should do well on Ebay since they are usually more desirable now a days because of the HDMI.

Yeah-but the 5U is quite an ugly duckling asthetically due to the missing faceplate. I'll give oleus $20 and take the burden of retaining the unit off his shoulders :).

BTW-I just won a New/Sealed Bourne D-Theater!

eric102

09-11-11, 04:28 PM

Yeah-but the 5U is quite an ugly duckling asthetically due to the missing faceplate. I'll give oleus $20 and take the burden of retaining the unit off his shoulders :).

BTW-I just won a New/Sealed Bourne D-Theater!

Where did you find a sealed Bourne?

qz3fwd

09-11-11, 11:56 PM

Where did you find a sealed Bourne?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/110741818473?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_500wt_1222
I will likely sell those I do not want of the lot.

oleus

09-13-11, 11:32 AM

after looking through the collection of tapes i think i'm going to hang on to the 5U. i don't think i would get enough for it to totally giving up on it.

qz3fwd

09-18-11, 06:38 PM

Unfortunately the Bourne was not sealed, but there was a copy of this title in the box of tapes I received. There were some obscure HDNet titles, Jazz 2003/2004 titles though which I've never seen before.

Jpass992

09-20-11, 04:40 PM

I've been in the VCR game for quite a while now, and personally, I think that the best machines to convert analog over to digital are the old JVC SVHS machines of the early 1990's. I have two JVC HM DT100U's and 1 JVC HM DH30000U, and the playback of SVHS tapes and VHS tapes is kind of grainy. Personally, my favorite VCR to use to convert VHS and SVHS tapes is the JVC HR S6900U. In the final generation oHJf JVC VCRs, such as the JVC SR V101US and the JVC HM DT100U, I can hear audio buzzing when I playback certain tapes. However, when I play them back on 6900U's, I don't get that at all. Just to let you know, the only problem with some older JVC SVHS machines is they are prone to white streaking on SVHS playback and sometimes VHS playback.

qz3fwd

09-29-11, 05:57 PM

Brand new Mitch HS-HD2000U showed up on fleabay today. I bought mine for $99 each a bout a year ago from some company who had a pallet of them-probably Mits liquidating their service stock.

braxus

10-16-11, 11:47 AM

I've already got a JVC 9800 deck which produces the best picture I've ever seen from the VHS format. Nice clean steady image. And sharp too.

I recently received my JVC DT100 deck. It seems the analog video output stage has packed it in. Its not sending anything through the outs. The HMDI stage is working though. I get picture through that.

I plugged in my digital cable box into the 100 deck and am getting signal. One channel came up on the tv, but when I recorded it- nothing showed up on the tape. Is this being blocked in the deck with the copyright stuff? Also when I record SD or HD video in digital, the picture breaks up in 1 second intervals. Is this a speed setting issue? I thought it said it was on HS mode. Im not sure if the heads are dirty or not, but it played back a S-VHS tape just fine. Or could I have a worn head?

qz3fwd

10-16-11, 05:12 PM

It could be a couple things. Try to minimize your firewire cable length as much as possible. 3 feet is better than 14 feet cable length. Also your cable box may have glitchy firewire output. SA boxes seem to be more problematic than Motorola STB's.
Your DVHS deck is authorized to record anything except CopyNever flagged content (think PPV). Your heads could be dirty/needing adjustment or you could have a bad tape.

braxus

10-16-11, 10:25 PM

TNO821

10-17-11, 12:41 AM

My box is a Motorola and its new. The output from it seems fine when watching on the D-VHS deck, but once its recorded the breakup starts. The cable is about a meter long. Im thinking a problem with the heads.
If you have a Motorola DCX DVR, then that's the problem, not your D-VHS deck.

The Motorola DCX DVR's have a known bug where the FireWire output is garbled as soon as a capture begins (regardless of whether it's being captured via a PC/Mac or D-VHS VCR). Everything works fine until the capture starts, and everything returns to normal as soon as it stops.

There is a rumor that Comcast will be rolling out a new firmware version to fix this within a couple of months (I'll believe it when I see it).

I've found that, even when using a DCX DVR which suffers from this issue, you are able to capture live television, but it is not possible to capture DVR recordings. In fact, if you so much as rewind more than 15 seconds or so, you lose the ability to capture. Thus you really are restricted to only capturing a live feed. Also, just a bit of trivia: this bug only impacts DVR's; Any Motorola DCX cable box (non-DVR), such as the DCX-3200 does not suffer from this bug (which is sort of obvious, as with a non-DVR you have no choice but to capture from the live feed).

BTW, my suggestion is to ditch the DCX and get one of the older Motorola DCH (or even a DCT) DVR's. Those units do not suffer from the bug and are generally more reliable than the DCX units.

braxus

10-19-11, 09:52 PM

If you have a Motorola DCX DVR, then that's the problem, not your D-VHS deck.

The Motorola DCX DVR's have a known bug where the FireWire output is garbled as soon as a capture begins (regardless of whether it's being captured via a PC/Mac or D-VHS VCR). Everything works fine until the capture starts, and everything returns to normal as soon as it stops.

Any Motorola DCX cable box (non-DVR), such as the DCX-3200 does not suffer from this bug (which is sort of obvious, as with a non-DVR you have no choice but to capture from the live feed).

BTW, my suggestion is to ditch the DCX and get one of the older Motorola DCH (or even a DCT) DVR's. Those units do not suffer from the bug and are generally more reliable than the DCX units.

What I have IS the DCX 3200 which is what you suggested. Other ideas?

TNO821

10-20-11, 12:17 AM

What I have IS the DCX 3200 which is what you suggested. Other ideas?

Pull the power for about 30 sec and do the same with your D-VHS deck and try again. When the FireWire is acting up, nothing short of a hard reset can fix it.

If it still isn't working, you should go to your cable company and exchange the DCX for a DCH or DCT cable box...those have FireWire that is nearly 100% reliable (there can be small glitches here and there, but very very few).

a8vdeluxe

10-28-11, 07:45 PM

For archiving I still say tape is the way to go. Just fried a hard drive that that was not backed up and lost 400GB of unedited stuff. I hadn't gotten around to editing and archiving good stuff to tape. I know raid may be better alternative, but the important stuff (game 7 world series) I prefer recording straight to D-VHS.

braxus

11-03-11, 12:59 AM

Well it looks like what I have isn't going to work. I've tried cleaning the heads on the vcr and tried the speed selection as well. I've also tried different channels and different tapes. The picture keeps breaking up at 1 second intervals on the tape. Why would the picture be fine while monitoring, but once put into record and play back the tape- I get this problem? I've also tried the hard reset on both units with no change in the issue.

I'd hate to get rid of my brand new cable box for an older used unit. Doesn't seem fair. Can we for sure pinpoint its the digital box at fault and not the vcr itself? How would one know for sure? Also would using an older firewire cable be the problem? Its about 4 to 6 feet long, but I've had it for quite some years now. Yet the cable seems to be passing signal. Or does the vcr send signal back to the digital box causing this problem? Is there any other tests I can do? I may try to buy another firewire connector with the small ends on both sides, and record from my mini dv camcorder to see if I get any issues.

TNO821

11-03-11, 02:42 AM

Why would the picture be fine while monitoring, but once put into record and play back the tape- I get this problem? I've also tried the hard reset on both units with no change in the issue.
Well the recording heads could be all jacked up. Or it could be the notorious Motorola DCX FireWire bug (this is a bit more likely).

I'd hate to get rid of my brand new cable box for an older used unit. Doesn't seem fair.
You're looking at it from the wrong perspective. You're getting rid of a shoddy product rife with bugs and using a far more reliable unit.

Can we for sure pinpoint its the digital box at fault and not the vcr itself? How would one know for sure?
Connect the cable box (via FireWire) to a computer running Mac OS X or 32-bit Windows XP/Vista/7. Use a program called CapDVHS (or use the Mac FireWire SDK) to capture from the cable box.
You'll find CapDVHS and the required Windows (32-bit) drivers in my Cable box FireWire driver MSI package (http://www.sendspace.com/file/nytuuh). Information about it can be found in this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=20470623&postcount=5613) post from the How to record via IEEE 1394 (Firewire) to Windows XP (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=403695&page=188) thread (despite the thread name, you can also use 32-bit Windows Vista and Windows 7 to perform the captures).

Also would using an older firewire cable be the problem? Its about 4 to 6 feet long, but I've had it for quite some years now.
Unlikely, but possible.

Yet the cable seems to be passing signal. Or does the vcr send signal back to the digital box causing this problem?
Yes, both the DVHS unit and the cable box pass signals to each other.

Is there any other tests I can do? I may try to buy another firewire connector with the small ends on both sides, and record from my mini dv camcorder to see if I get any issues.
That would be a good test. You want to try anything possible to narrow in on the source of the problem. Right now it's a toss-up between faulty DVHS and buggy cable box firmware.

braxus

11-03-11, 12:27 PM

Would the Motorola DCT 6200 be a good fit for this vcr? I see my cable provider had these in their system.

braxus

11-03-11, 02:14 PM

Hoping the DCT 6200 will work with my deck, I put one of those units on layaway. I have 30 days to pick it up or decide to ditch it.

I did a simple test from my HDV mini dv camcorder. I played hidef video from it via firewire into the D-VHS deck and it picked up the signal. Once the tape played back- the signal was broken up. Now I don't know if that is because HDV is incompatible with D-VHS or not. To be safe- I recorded SD video from the same camera and the D-VHS deck recorded it fine. So Im not sure if its because HD signals are bogging down the deck or not. I haven't tried recording analog video in digital format yet to see what happens, but if it recorded SD fine from the camera, I would suspect analog would be fine as well. So Im still stumped whether its the deck or the DCX unit. I've heard people say they are able to record HDV video on D-VHS, so it could be my deck. But with SD working fine- it doesn't make sense.