Getting all networks on QAM is very nice especially with full bandwidth for UPN, WB, and CBS. Hopefully, the recordings aren't glitchy when I check in a few weeks. If all goes well, I think the remote site will get 3 units to catch stuff like Veronica Mars and Smallville too that I can't get now.

I don't have the opportunity to try this because my two units are in two different cities (Avalon doesn't get OTA TV.) But here is my suggestion for sharing an archive folder between multiple units:

First setup the units each with it's own archive folder. Then in a different account on each machine, have EyeTV use an archive folder with nothing but alias' to all the real archive folders.

This should allow you to watch all the programming from that account, while still retaining individual control of the units from other accounts. However, you will most likely have to restart EyeTV from the watching account to discover new programming.

Also, don't setup the watching account to discover any of the units, or you will most likely have to restart the hardware. What might go wrong is that the watching software notices overlap in the scheduling and tries to fix it. Someone will need to test it to find out.

I don't think that would work. Wouldn't the "watching accounts" see all of the schedule files and try to start recording? Also, if you are logged into a "watching account", wouldn't the recording account not be able to record?

-Sean

If they can officially allow >3 FW boxes with scheduling by tuner I will be one happy customer.
Does that mean more than 3 HDTV tuners for one Mac? Please forgive my ignorance of Macs; I am a Windows user. I'm not proud of that, it's just what happened. Now that that's out of the way, I sympathize with Joseph S:

I am planning to equip a computer with 5 over-the-air HDTV tuners so that I can record 5 shows at once while also watching either a previous recording or an in-progress recording (live TV that can be paused, RW'd, FF'd). I want to output the playback to a TV that accepts HDMI, DVI, or component video. Let's say the playback goal is less than one stutter per hour and less than one failed recording in 100. Is there a way to do this with a Mac? Would it be better than doing it with a PC?

I don't think that would work. Wouldn't the "watching accounts" see all of the schedule files and try to start recording? Also, if you are logged into a "watching account", wouldn't the recording account not be able to record?As long as the watching account can't find the hardware it's looking for I think it will give up trying to record and give you an error message. As long as you don't log out of the first account all of its processes will continue to run when you switch to another account. Of course, to see the files you will have to have the archive folders in the Shared folder (or adjust file permissions so that all the accounts are in the same group.)

Let's say the playback goal is less than one stutter per hour and less than one failed recording in 100. Is there a way to do this with a Mac? Would it be better than doing it with a PC?A quad G5 could probably handle the CPU load, and with a fiber channel card connected to the appropriate RAID storage it could handle the disk I/O load as well. I'm not sure about the firewire bandwith (whether it would be enough to keep up with 5 HD streams.)

However, this would be a needlessly expensive solution. 6 minis could do the same job for a lot less money, noise, and power consumption, and be a far more robust solution. Why do you want a single machine?

Is there a way to do this with a Mac? Would it be better than doing it with a PC?
Technically, yes. You can have 6 HD tuners, but the problem is only 3 of the same and the TVMiniHD isn't as good as the EyeTV 500 in my opinion because of USB2 and single input. It's a software issue and not a hardware one. They keep talking about "when" they officially support multituners, but we don't know how much longer. It's all unofficial right now. I think EyeTV is better in scheduling, reception, and quick editing than anything on PC. Scheduling for my old HiPix and MyHD is a nightmare compared to EyeTV.

phantom gremlin--this is going to appear to be a personal and direct response to what you've recently posted on this thread--but it's really not. I've looked at your posts, and am going to refer to some specifics, but what I'm ultimately trying to say is much more general. I'm prompted by nothing other than the fear that your posts mislead the casual or newbie visitor to this forum, that you're appearing to besmirch a very good company, a company very loyal to Mac users (unlike Tivo) and that you're appearing to do it WITHOUT any direct experience of their products--nor much experience recording and archiving high def programming.

Oops. I seem to have rattled someone's chain. Sorry to read that you're so upset. I didn't want to respond until I had a chance to go back to page 1 of this thread and skim it all the way thru. Also since your post is so long I will just respond with general comments rather than item by item.

I think the biggest difference between your viewpoint and mine is that you're a early adopter while I prefer things to just work. Also, recording HD for posterity isn't yet very interesting to me (but time shifting HD is). You're right, I have no HD recording capability.

I'm glad to read that El Gato software has been stable as of late, but reading back thru the problems of last summer is more than enough to make a grown man weep. Whenever I read about release after release of bug infested and crash prone software I question whether or not a company can ever recover from a fiasco like that. For example, years after Microsoft decided to audit their code for security purposes they are still patching critical vulnerabilites. The latest patch was on May 9, less than 1 week ago. Despite the lip service paid to security, the fundamental culture at Microsoft hasn't changed.

Maybe El Gato is different in regard to quality software. Maybe they have genuinely gotten their act together. That's why we have forums like this, as independent sources of information.

I don't own TiVo stock but I really like their products. You say:

Who here would eagerly return to a high upfront cost, a monthly service fee, a lifetime fee even if resurrected, DRM, proprietary limitations imposed on storage, movement and conversion of HD files?
I would gladly accept all the above limitations. In return I want a box that will record HD (including premium content) from QAM for me to watch at a later time. I want it to be reliable. I want it to just work. I want it to be something I can depend on. I want a better program guide than Titan TV. I want it to be easy enough for my 5 y/o daughter to use. (She has no problems navigating a TiVo). I don't know if TiVo or Apple will ever deliver that product. And (from what I read, not first hand experience) El Gato has also not yet delivered that product.

P.G., you are right, the EyeTV software isn't something a 5 year old could operate. But, for the price, it's a pretty good piece of hardware and software.

I agree that I would pay for something that just works like my ReplayTV, but with HD. The upcoming TiVo Series 3 should do that. (Not sure if it will have a ClearQAM tuner, though.)

I just got an MacIntel with the latest OS installed, so I decided to upgrade to version 2 of the software.

Yeah, you're right. This isn't something that just plugs in and works. In a way, I think I found the old 1.85 to be more stable and at least a little more reliable. Interestingly, stuff that's been virtually unplayable in the EyeTV application plays flawlessly and smoothly in the VLC player.

Definitely early adopter material, but not a TiVo killer.

Will TiVo Series 3 ever be a real, shipping product???? It's fun to speculate about possible future technologies that may or may not emerge. The Jetsons had all this stuff figured out pretty well back in the 1970's. I only wish the future were as user friendly as the cartoons portrayed.

Here's a new topic for discussion:

I just received a Miglia TVMicro receiver. It comes with EyeTV 2 software. Would it ever occur to anyone that EyeTV 2 software for Miglia won't work with my EyeTV 500 receivers? I asked Nick about this today and his response was:

"Each device has its own EyeTV 2 activation key. A TVMicro has one key, that does not work with EyeTV 500."

So I have to purchase a separate $70 activation fee to use my EyeTV 2 two EyeTV 500 receivers despite buying the same software for my Miglia? Hmmm. Sounds like something Microsoft would do.

That doesn't sound right. I didn't use the code that came with the TVMiniHD and it works fine. Maybe the Miglia keys are screwy.

Nick wrote in a follow-up, "I can't really offer more details about our activation key system at this time, other than the keys included with a product, are only guaranteed to work with that product. There are various exceptions that would be too complicated to explain at this time, but sufficed to say that licensing issues are involved." I hope Nick isn't upset at being quoted, but I can't think of a clearer way of getting the word out so others aren't confused about EyeTV licensing issues as I was.

6 minis could do the same job for a lot less money, noise, and power consumption, and be a far more robust solution. Why do you want a single machine?#1. I figure one box (even a PC) would look better in our living room than--are we saying 6 minis, plus 5 external HDTV tuners (11 boxes)? To be fair, I think a PC would end up with 5 external USB tuners (each about 1/4 the size of the EyeTV 500). Would the Macs need to talk to each other, requiring another box? (I think that's a moot question; see #3)

#2. I would like to see all the recorded shows in one on-screen list. Is your proposal 5 minis for recording and one for playback? Would I be able to watch an in-progress recording (live TV that can be paused, RW'd, FF'd)? Would I have to transfer each recording to the playback machine? (Again, I think these are moot questions; see #3)

#3. I'm willing to spend the $ required for a good solution, but not more $ than is required for a good solution. The biggest internal drive I've seen for a Mini is 160GB for $270. 160GB X 6 = 960GB. How much of that would be taken for OS & apps (nothing but TV recording & playback)? I think I would soon want to add an external drive (12 boxes total), because I was figuring on 1000GB TV storage to start.
6 Minis @ $600 = $3600
6 internal 160GB drives @ $270 = $1620
5 tuners @ $270 = $1350
Remote control @ $100(?)
External 320GB drive @ $210
Total: $6880 (minus what I could get for the original drives on ebay)

Too much. I'm still working on how much a PC setup will cost, but it will be much less--if you want to know, say so here, or watch the thread "Beyond TV HDTV Mulit tuner support" in the "Home Theater Computers" forum.

Still, I appreciate the interesting suggestion, flexion.
You can have 6 HD tuners, but the problem is only 3 of the same and the TVMiniHD isn't as good as the EyeTV 500OK--
A quad G5 could probably handle the CPU load, and with a fiber channel card connected to the appropriate RAID storage it could handle the disk I/O load as well. I'm not sure about the firewire bandwith (whether it would be enough to keep up with 5 HD streams.)Does anybody know whether it could handle the CPU load and firewire bandwidth? (Another likely moot question; see total below.) Assuming Mac RAID is the same as PC RAID, RAID0 doesn't sound good to me because if one drive fails, we would probably lose all our shows. RAID1 would be great (fast and redundant), but to get 1000GB storage, I guess I would need four 500GB drives.
Quad G5 = $3100
RAID1 card = $150
4 500GB drives = $800
3 EyeTV 500 tuners @ $270 = $810
2 TVMiniHD tuners @ $230 = $460
Remote control @ $100(?)
Total = $5420

Still too much. I didn't realize Mac tuners are so much more $ than PC tuners (Vbox USB is $110).
EyeTV is better in scheduling, reception, and quick editing than anything on PC. Scheduling for my old HiPix and MyHD is a nightmare compared to EyeTV.That's good to know, but is BeyondTV really that much worse? How could scheduling be a nightmare? I should mention that I'm used to programming 4 video recorders at once.

So far, it sounds like no one is confident this would work. I don't want to "try it and find out." Unless I'm missing something, a PC solution seems to have more confidence of success, for less money. I'll check back here for other suggestions/enlightenment, but at this point I think I'll pursue the PC approach. Thanks for your help, flexion and Joseph S.

You don't need a Quad G5 by any means and 6 minis is complete overkill. Two is plenty for two separate 3 tuner setups that can play and record. I'd save money on the internal drives and put it toward an external NAS or FW solution whether you go XP or OS X.

To record you only need a G4. To playback you need G5/Core Duo. You could essentially have a $200 G4 Gigabit tower do all the recording in the basement and play it back on an Intel Mini elsewhere in the house. The EyeTV refurbs are $200. While recording my CPU use is barely 20%. With SATA I don't even think RAID is necessary. Maybe for 5 or six tuners, but not for 4. It really depends on purpose. I like to record and watch when I can. I've got a significant JBOD system to offload to/organize, but I record to the stock 400GB SATA from 3/4 tuners without issues. Another solution is 3 tuners per system.

That's good to know, but is BeyondTV really that much worse? How could scheduling be a nightmare? I should mention that I'm used to programming 4 video recorders at once.

EyeTV has a point and click scheduler and it's very easy to see what's coming up after you've scheduled and to see what's being recorded presently. I want an OSD system, but what they have now is foolproof. iEyeCaptain lets you refine times to seconds. The MyHD/Hipix scheduling was a list within a CP. Yes, you could use TitanTV, but you still had to jump through too many hoops to get to the schedule from the interface. Not bad on a desktop, inefficient from the couch. It's not as good as Sage for scheduling simply because of TitanTV vs Zap2it, don't know about BeyondTV or if it supports multiple tuners.

Another issue is that it's a lot tougher to build a silent PC housing multiple PCI cards. You can't even use hyperthreading with MyHD while playing network files. You can't use >1 MyHD. You may have to mix and match with other solutions. QAM support is iffy for some products. NTFS has file size limits you don't have to worry about with HFS+ for recording. My HTPC is watercooled with a silent reserator tower. It's still louder than the Mini due to drive noise and minimal Nexus silent fans on case output and Samsung HD noise.

With a Mini you just connect the gigabit and stick a firewire hub on it. It's silent as is, the EyeTV units are silent, and if you have remote storage you don't hear that either. I find the USB2 to be a major issue with the TVMini as opposed to EyeTV 500. I'm not sure 5 HD tuners on USB is a good idea.

I also get better reception with EyeTV units from the same antenna feed than from MyHD120,130, Hipix, and TVMiniHD. It doesn't hog PCI slots and generate heat inside the machine. I can use it on the road with a PBG4 and a Mac Mini that lack PCI slots. and it was nothing but text.

There's plenty of room for improvement, but it works well for me.

EyeTV 2.2 Update now available. DD bugfix included.

http://elgato.com/downloads/eyetv22update.dmg

What's new in EyeTV 2.2?

Hardware Support

EyeTV 250
Support for EyeTV 250 has been added. EyeTV 250 features a built-in hardware encoder which compresses audio and video signals to MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 formats, freeing up your computer’s processor for other activities. It also introduces Game Mode.

Game Mode
Game Mode is a hardware feature of EyeTV 250. In Game Mode, the MPEG compressor is bypassed for zero latency game play. Connect your game console to EyeTV 250's composite or S-Video inputs, then enable Game Mode by selecting “Game Mode” from the Controls menu.

EyeTV VHS Assistant
For EyeTV 250 and all supported television receiver/recorders with built-in hardware MPEG-2 compression, EyeTV 2.2 features a VHS assistant that walks users through the entire process of creating DVDs from their VHS tapes. It shows how to connect the video recorder's outputs, play back the tape, record it into EyeTV's Archive, and finally burn a DVD with Roxio's Toast 7 Titanium or iDVD, and optionally export the finished recording to the video iPod. The VHS Assistant can be run from the Help menu at any time by choosing “EyeTV VHS Assistant”.

DVB-T USB Stick Support
Support for the following USB DVB-T sticks has been added:

TerraTec Cinergy T USB XS
TerraTec Cinergy Hybrid T USB XS

Bug Fixes

Digital Audio Out now works on Intel-based Macs with Mini Toslink optical adapters.

A hang when switching to play digital audio out has been eliminated.

EyeTV now properly displays shows’ New/Repeat status as retrieved from the TitanTV and tvtv Electronic Programming Guide services. This bug fix will clear the contents of the stored EPG database and EyeTV will need to re-download all programming information.

Problems with corrupted display of TitanTV programming information have been resolved.

Fixed occasional failures of the EyeTV 200 infrared remote after waking from sleep.

A problem with EyeTV Wonder 2.0 and progressive scan playback has been resolved.

A problem in the MPEG stream header of EyeTV 200 Extended Play recordings which resulted in VideoLAN playback at an incorrect aspect ratio has been resolved.

A problem with film-sourced HDTV content containing 3:2 pulldown which caused constant display of Closed Caption status in EyeTV's overlay window has been fixed.

A problem navigating with arrow keys in the EyeTV Editor when using Progressive Scan playback has been resolved.

A problem in the EyeTV Editor where the timeline indicator ended up stuck to the mouse has been resolved.

EyeTV 2.2 works fine for me. I don't see any change from Beta 2125 but Nick assures me there are some differences. Support for my Miglia TVMicro is perfect. Playback of EyeTV 500 recordings with 5.1 channel ac3 is also perfect.

Alas, I'm still struggling with the question of whether to shell out $70 to buy another EyeTV 2 license for EyeTV 500 scheduling / recording support. ElGato seems to be struggling with this licensing issue too. It's hard to know what to say. They deserve compensation for their efforts in bringing the software to maturity. But $70 seems a bit high for the new scheduling feature alone. For now I'll stick with EyeTV 1.8.5 for recording and EyeTV 2.2 for playback. Maybe a more affordable solution will come along for early EyeTV adopters who purchased an EyeTV 2 license for a different receiver.

Miglia's TVMicro is a slick little analog receiver. It's an unbeatable package for $100, especially since it can be used to convert old VHS tapes to MPEG2. The only downside is mono audio but that's not an concern with most of my old tapes being mono. It's about preserving memories, not achieving maximum quality.

EyeTV 2.2 works fine for me. I don't see any change from Beta 2125 but Nick assures me there are some differences. Support for my Miglia TVMicro is perfect. Playback of EyeTV 500 recordings with 5.1 channel ac3 is also perfect.
I noted a few skips that weren't in the recording while watching NCIS live tonight on the Mini that I hadn't seen with betas. Not sure if it something else in the background, but the recording was fine so I didn't care. I'm still noting the TVMiniHD can't do full frames as soon as an EyeTV 500 window is up, whereas I can have multiple EyeTV 500 windows without dropped frames. Haven't experimented much, but it looks like the drops issue with the TVMiniHD may be fixed to some degree. Won't risk it during the remainder of finale weeks and don't want to jinx it as it seems fine today. Guide still only shows 7 days of data, although TitanTV website has 14 days of data. Still missing loads of hotkeys for this stuff buried in menus.

Getting rid of the audio switching freeze is a nice new "feature" that I didn't see coming for awhile.

Searched and got an answer to my question; Yes, it does indeed start up the Mac even when shut down. Very nice !

Thomas

Make sure you don't have to manually log in when the Mac starts up.

I installed 2.2 last night, but one bug I am facing still hasn't been resolved.

Ever since I switched my eyeTV units (200 & 500) over to an Intel Mini (hooked up through the s-video adapter to a 4:3 CRT TV), the automatic aspect ratio switching doesn't seem to work.

A channel that is normally 16:9 - and hence letterboxed on a 4:3 screen - had a huge border on all sides when 4:3 content is displayed. I can manually force the aspect ratio to be 4:3, but then of course the sides get chopped off when the station resumes showing 16:9 content.

When I ran eyeTV on my G5 with cinema display, it did a great job automatically detecting & then switching aspect ratios on the fly. Anyone know a solution to this?

I was struggling with the same issue on some of my recordings a few days ago, in which a black letterboxed border appeared all the way around a tiny central 16x9 video window. I thought it was a new problem but, in fact, this behavior was present in EyeTV 1.8.4 and 1.8.5. It might have been present all along but I don't have earlier versions to try. What changed in my situation was using EyeTV as the primary display engine for my plasma EDTV, versus my now-retired LinkPlayer2.

The solution was fairly simple. In my case it's a relatively small number of 480i shows that are letterboxed in this way. With the play window open select "Aspect Ratio" 16 x 9 from the View menu (or press option-cmd-3). That 16 x 9 setting sticks to the individual show without affecting others. When I play the show again it fills my screen nicely. I don't have to set aspect ratio again -- the setting is saved.

I'd prefer to see letterboxed shows automatically fill my screen, but making a single adjustment to a handful of shows isn't too onerous. I expect there is a perfectly reasonable explanation why letterboxed 480i shows don't automatically expand to fill the screen... I just don't happen to know what the reason is. I thought about writing ElGato to find out but I'm sure they are submerged right now following the update.

6 minis is complete overkill. Two is plenty for two separate 3 tuner setups that can play and record. I'd save money on the internal drives and put it toward an external NAS or FW solutionHow do I find a Network Attached Storage solution that can handle 5+1 HDTV streams (6 X 2.4MB/s = 14.4MB/s) for less than $2K? cnet gave top rating to the Buffalo TeraStation, which wrote data at 4.26MB/s.

The Intel Mini has one FireWire 400 port. For FireWire drives, cnet's numbers are a little confusing, but they seem to say that, using FireWire 400, the Iomega External Hard Drive FireWire 800/FireWire 400/USB is the fastest, writing data at 12MB/s. So maybe one 400GB Iomega for each of two Mac Minis would work--that's almost as much storage as we were planning to start with, but I think we would want to add a drive soon.
EyeTV refurbs are $200.5 EyeTV 500 tuners, refurbished @ $200 (Where do we buy these? Do they have warranties?)
2 Core Duo Minis @ $790 = $1580
2 400GB Iomega FireWire Drives @ $340 = $680
2 4-port FireWire hubs @ $40 = $80
2 Remote controls @ $100(?) = $200
Total: $3540

Still a bit much, for a bit less storage than we were planning, and 11 boxes doesn't appeal to us. Would the non-techies in our household be able to see all the recorded shows in one on-screen list? Probably a moot question, given the cost and clutter/bulk factors.
have a $200 G4 Gigabit tower do all the recording in the basement and play it back on an Intel Mini elsewhere in the house.We don't have a basement or spare room. Running antenna & network cables to another room would require a few hours with power tools. Fine if that's what we wanted, but it's not.

G4 Gigabit tower = $200 (I'm guessing ebay, with no warranty?)
2 500GB internal SATA drives @ $200 = $400
3 EyeTV 500 tuners, refurbished @ $200 = $600
2 TVMiniHD tuners @ $230 = $460
4-port FireWire hub = $40
Core Duo Mini = $790
Remote control @ $100(?)
Total: $2590

Okay, that's a workable price, but most of the equipment is used, which also doesn't appeal to me. And if we bought used PC stuff, it would be a lot less $. It's still 8 boxes, compared to 6 (PC and 5 small USB tuners) for a PC.
With SATA I don't even think RAID is necessary. Maybe for 5 or six tuners, but not for 4.So we may need to spend another $150 on a RAID card, plus $400 for additional drives if we don't want to lose all our shows to a single drive failure.
EyeTV . . . iEyeCaptain . . . MyHD/Hipix . . . TitanTV . . . Sage . . . Zap2it, don't know about BeyondTV or if it supports multiple tuners.Thanks for the details about the software. BeyondTV 4 claims to support unlimited tuners (http://www.snapstream.com/products/beyondtv/features.asp).
it's a lot tougher to build a silent PC housing multiple PCI cards.Good point, but we've pretty much given up our dream of one box (all internal tuners). I expect to use Vbox USB external tuners.
You can't even use hyperthreading with MyHD while playing network files. You can't use >1 MyHD.More good points, and at this point I'm not planning to use MyHD.
QAM support is iffy for some products.We won't be using QAM.
NTFS has file size limits you don't have to worry about with HFS+NTFS max file size is 2TB, less than my planned total storage. Not to dis OS X 10.3's 16TB max. (http://www.ntfs.com/ntfs_vs_fat.htm)(http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25557)
My HTPC is watercooled with a silent reserator tower. It's still louder than the Mini . . . if you have remote storage you don't hear that either.Another good point, but no one will be right next to the computer, and we don't have a silent environment anyway.
I find the USB2 to be a major issue with the TVMini as opposed to EyeTV 500. I'm not sure 5 HD tuners on USB is a good idea.Okay, now you're pushing the right button--raising a question of whether it will work. However, on the Snapstream Forum, aaronwt wrote: "I can record to a USB drive while watching a different program on that PC and also have another PC with beyond TV Link looking at another program all from the same USB drive. Plus the VBOX Cat's Eye USB-A-3560 is so small. . . I was surprised that I had no problems with the USB considering it is transferring the signal from the Cats Eye over the USB while also sending that same stream and a couple of other streams all from the same USB drive." (http://forums.snapstream.com/vb/showthread.php?t=29549)

The 3560 is HDTV; so that seems to be 4 HDTV streams through USB. Also, SnapStream hooked 4 USB HDTV tuners to a PC and recorded from all 4 (and 7 other non-USB analog tuners) simultaneously. (http://blogs.snapstream.com/2006/01/18/godzilla-pvr/) Is it possible the USB problem you've observed is peculiar to the TVMini? Besides, suppose I find my motherboard's USB controller(s) can't handle 5 streams--as I understand it, I could solve that by just adding a USB PCI card (less than $50) to split the load.
I also get better reception with EyeTV units from the same antenna feed than from MyHD120,130, Hipix, and TVMiniHD.We have excellent reception, even feeding, unamplified, 3 VCRs, 1 DVR, and 1 TV. If I remove the VCRs & DVR and add a $50 distribution amplifier, I don't think reception to 5 tuners and 1 TV will be a problem.
I can use it on the road with a PBG4 and a Mac Mini that lack PCI slots.Nice capability, but not one we would use.
It doesn't hog PCI slots and generate heat inside the machine.Neither do external USB tuners.
and it was nothing but text.Sorry, what was nothing but text?

Not to detract from the benefits of your proposals, but I think a PC will meet my criteria completely, for much less money. I thank you for your time and assistance.

So, GH, let us know your your PC-based solution works for you. When do you expect to have it operational?

Just got my new eyeTV 500 last night. Wanted to report my first experiences and see what the hive mind thinks.

Wih a crappy indoor ant I got 4 channels, looks good ( but it's PAX! UGH! ) I hooked it up to my cable (which is basic analog, I planned to upgrade to digital when I got it. I got bout 6 or 7 channels in the clear, all local except oddly enough for discovery HD theater. Picture looked great, Conan on one of the local channels looked great at full HD.

Questions -

I am presuming that upgrading to digital will make all the channels I have now + all the digital channels above 100 work, or will only the new upgraded channels work? In other words, does the entire signal go digital and they just unlock the higher channels or do they keep the lower channels analog and only provide digital to the expanded channels ( above 100) ? My provider is Adelphia - and I presume thy are using clear QAM becuase I was able to get the local channels last night so that wont be a issue.

I got about 25 music stations as well. I have zero use for these, best way to get rid of them? I only want video.

Using this in combo with a cable modem simply requires a 2 in one 75 ohm splitter, right? One going into the 500, the other going into the cable modem as normal? ( I cant drive due to brain tumor and resulting seizures/problems, so I cant just run out and get one)

Computer is a dual 1.8 G5 from 2003 with 4 Gigs ram.

I bought this to obtain high quality source video of news broadcasts. the sunday political shows, and historical footage that I use to make make political ads using FCP/Imovie/GarageBand for orgs and issues I'm active in.

Just got my new eyeTV 500 last night..... I am presuming that upgrading to digital will make all the channels I have now + all the digital channels above 100 work, or will only the new upgraded channels work? I am not a cable TV subscriber but I doubt upgrading to digital will get you anything more for your EyeTV 500. The 500 receives unencrypted content only (qAM and ATSC). It's unlikely your cable provider will be distributing those digital "upgrades" without encryption. Better check with your neighbors or others in your area who subscribe to the same cable company before spending the $$$ on digital service.

It's too bad your cable company only gives you 6-7 qAM channels. We get significantly more than that in our area. I prefer the free alternative (roof ant) that gives us a couple dozen channels to choose from. Rural areas will limit what you can receive with a normal sized antenna, though.

Machound is right, with an EyeTV500 subscribing to the cable digital tier won't benefit you much--you either get QAM channels in the clear or you don't, and you'll get them with basic. The networks and PBS will be about all you can expect via QAM--though in some areas, if you are lucky, your cable company might also send channels like ESPN-HD, TNT-HD, INHD, DiscoveryHD in the clear as well. Most are clamping down on this. The EyeTV500 isn't designed to record typical digital tier channels or anything which requires a converter box--it's OTA or QAM--so that means you won't be using it to record news shows from BBC, MSNBC, Fox News, CNN, etc.

Tap into the knowledge base of other Adelphia subscribers who post on your local AVS HDTV thread.

After you do a channel scan, if it detects channels you don't want, just uncheck their boxes. It's pretty intuitive how to add/delete/re-assign channels. Keep that in mind when Adelphia runs a free HBO or Showtime week--for that week your EyeTV500 will pick it up--what would normally be encrypted will be free and clear QAM.

A basic 1 GHz splitter will work just fine for you--you might want to consider a 3-way and send the cable directly to your display as well--and that way you're all set if you add another device later. In your situation you'll find that ordering online can be very convenient--do your research and in terms of home theater-related goods you'll often pay less for higher quality than if you shopped in local stores.

So I actually would have been better off buying something like the 250 for my purposes?

From looking at the spec's for the EyeTV 250, I think you did just fine going with the EyeTV 500. I don't see where it does anything different, other than giving you crappy copies of the cable analog channels.

Of course, I get all the HD feeds from nine local channels, including the ones that carry the Sunday news shows and local newscasts, so I'm a bit biased. These programs are broadcast in 1080i or 720p so even with a 4x3 picture, you get images that are 1440x1080 or 960x720, which then down convert nicely to standard definition.

Of course, I don't have cable either. I have satellite and really just a minimal number of HD channels at that. I no longer get CNN, Fox News or MSNBC. For your purposes, you might want both or you might want to invest in a decent outdoor antenna. I'm 45 miles from the towers and get a stellar picture on all but the local ABC affiliate which is broadcasting digital via VHF. I just put the antenna up in 2001 and when the digital stations started broadcasting I got them all one by one.

Dennis

yeah, thats what I'm going to do. I have a big RCA wih a 18ft boom combo v/uhf with a 18 db amp on it. I am 75 miles from Baltimore and DC. The bastard contractor for adelphia used my coax downlead from the antenna I had put up to put the cable signal in wihout asking me first so he didnt have to run a second line of cable , so I am going to have to get someone out here to fix that and run a new line into the computer room here.

I have a terminal brain tumor and it has made me rather unable to do anything like climb ladders and such.

SD would not be bad for my needs, as most of it will wind up being highly compressed for the web anyways. But I need UN-compressed full quality source video that I can make master clips from and then edit as desired.

Ok, new problem. I got a 2ghz splitter from CC and hooked evertyhing up. Now I get blocky artifacts on any 1920X1080 content along with skips in the audio. When hooked up by itself with no splitter, it worked fine, but of course then I had no internet. It only happens on 1920X1080 stuff.

Signal strength is 100% / 75% on the gauges. Mac is a Dual 1.8 G5, Anyone have a clue?

75% is not that great for signal strength. My guess is the splitter is the problem if reception was fine before. You really should be around 80 or better. Anything with an audio skip is a signal drop.

The 100% is a garbage measure. If you have less than 100% for signal quality you've got major issues.

So, GH, let us know your your PC-based solution works for you. When do you expect to have it operational?Being optimistic, maybe next month.

Because of things I said earlier about minimizing clutter and bulk, I hope no one thinks I'm a hypocrite for what I'm about to divulge: I'm now thinking one PC is not a good idea, and I'm planning to make a cost estimate for two PCs (3 tuners on one, 2 tuners on the other). They would both be in the living room. I don't know yet whether I would network them together.

Based on the feedback I've got so far from PC people, I might have some real problems getting a 5-HDTV tuner & playback PC working and keeping it working. I also started thinking about what would happen if there is any kind of failure, like a glitch in the software or motherboard--we could lose all the recordings scheduled from that point until we realize something's wrong, and then possibly be unable to record or watch anything for days while I try to fix it. I think I would be constantly stressed by that scenario, even if the thing was working perfectly.

With 2 PCs, potential throughput, heat, and conflict problems would be reduced. If one failed, the other could still record & play back while I troubleshoot. I could use all internal tuners, which would be at least as good on the clutter scale than 1 PC with some external tuners. I'm just afraid the cost may be too high.

I appreciate the suggestions from flexion & Joseph S, which probably got me thinking in that direction. I'll let you know what happens.

I've been freeing up some space on my main volume by combining some recordings on one of my external SATA drives. I have about 200GB of archived HD on two hard drives. On the external, I have things grouped by category -- sports, history, comedy, etc. -- and then I have aliases copied into the EyeTV Archive folder on my main volume. Obviously, the El Gato people haven't yet come up with a perfect solution for this year, especially since I sometimes have those external SATA drives removed.

Anyway, I started this system with the old EyeTV 1.x software where the names are not nearly so easy to recognize. Is there an easy way to force the EyeTV software to update recordings to the new package format? I just about have them all updated, but my music folder has dozens of recordings, many in the same folder. In my other folders, I've solved that by saving the clips as a recording, but that's kind of time consuming when all I want to do is save them out as indivdual packages. Any thoughts?

Also, when I upgraded, my main archive was automatically updated to the new format, but changing the archive to one of these new folders don't automatically perform the update with 2.2.

Dennis

I've been freeing up some space on my main volume by combining some recordings on one of my external SATA drives. I have about 200GB of archived HD on two hard drives. On the external, I have things grouped by category -- sports, history, comedy, etc. -- and then I have aliases copied into the EyeTV Archive folder on my main volume. Obviously, the El Gato people haven't yet come up with a perfect solution for this year, especially since I sometimes have those external SATA drives removed.

Anyway, I started this system with the old EyeTV 1.x software where the names are not nearly so easy to recognize. Is there an easy way to force the EyeTV software to update recordings to the new package format? I just about have them all updated, but my music folder has dozens of recordings, many in the same folder. In my other folders, I've solved that by saving the clips as a recording, but that's kind of time consuming when all I want to do is save them out as indivdual packages. Any thoughts?

Also, when I upgraded, my main archive was automatically updated to the new format, but changing the archive to one of these new folders don't automatically perform the update with 2.2.

Dennis

Nope, it's all a pain, for those recordings that don't change automagically when the title is changed, you'll need to 'save clip as recording' to get the rest in a more easily managed. (I tried to delete out the 'extranneious records and got a bunch of unusable recordings, so you'll need to do it the long way.) Though you can make aliases to the folders themselves, and they do show up in the recordings list, no matter what the folder is called, as long as it contains valid eyeTV recording files.
I spend most of Sunday night cleaning up two of my drives--I have 6+ drives with recordings on them, and also have a few more hard drives with DVHS-captures to record into eyeTV. Now got all recordings but one '0s' place-holder consolidated, but, still have to swap hard drives (looking at making an internal SATA RAID-5 to try and consolidate--start with JBOD), to get to everything.

I got a guy coming to re-do my antenna and put my coax back in I think the problem is with the cable signal - so I'm going all OTA and screw Adelphia. :D 16ft boom vhf/uhf RCA with a 18db winegard preamp should get me fixed up.

I was happy with the ota but th wifey had to have cable. :/

Can't get HGTV or TLC OTA. What do ya do?

Yeh she wanted the animal channel. :D I'm ok with ota...sunday political shows...

I'm gonna show her....shes asleep right now and I'm grabbing the U2 perfs off Conan....that will take care of any resistance towards a Westy 37" monitor.

...I'm grabbing the U2 perfs off Conan....that will take care of any resistance towards a Westy 37" monitor.

Those performances are quite impressive. Too bad they clipped the final seconds off of "Vertigo" at the end.

Dennis

version 2.2.1 is out at elgato.com today.

Anybody editing with the new "invert all markers" mode? I don't like doing "scene mode" but maybe it's working out better for some of you.

Anybody editing with the new "invert all markers" mode? I don't like doing "scene mode" but maybe it's working out better for some of you.

I've only done it to cut out musical guest on the late night shows, don't think I tried on more than one cut. I've started out, with a 'invert' and then when ahead and cut commercials and such. Just wish I could get better cuts--more accurate.

I've been communicating with ElGato about a strange bug? I've got in my schedules list. I have both tuners connected up to an antenna and cable. So, I tune into the UPN and WB--channels that aren't on cable--and then use cable for the rest, and the antenna for backup, and some sub-channels. But, in the standard 'Program Guide' which ever number is higher doesn't appear. Say I want 2-1, and it's QAM equivalent, 702, when I check both channels only 2-1 shows up in the guide. But, if I drag all channels to a 'Custom Guide' which ever one is on top in the 'list' mode is the one that shows up--even works for sub-channels (e.g. 9-2 and 189--at least the ones that are to the same channel/listing.)
I'd be nice to be able to have both, so I can easily use the 'other' for backups, or when one or the other is down, but, with this, I have to keep checking, and un-checking, or moving channels around, what a pain. And, haven't checked with iEyeCaptain, since during the early betas he hadn't gotten the sub-channels set-up, and I haven't check back.

I've only done it to cut out musical guest on the late night shows, don't think I tried on more than one cut. I've started out, with a 'invert' and then when ahead and cut commercials and such. Just wish I could get better cuts--more accurate.

Me too. Frame accurate cuts would make this thing perfect for me.

I used the invert thing yesterday when I was coverting the rest of my clips to the new format. I would go to the front of the clip, set a marker, and then choose invert so that everything was selected. It worked well for that purpose and saved me from having to drag the slider all the way to the right. If I actually needed to edit something, I'd export it to iMovie HD (or Final Cut Pro) and use the editing tools there.

Dennis

If I actually needed to edit something, I'd export it to iMovie HD (or Final Cut Pro) and use the editing tools there.

Yeah, but I want DD preserved.

Also I saw on Macupdate that iEyeCaptain is at 1.0. It does now work with multituners, can revise your schedule to be programmed to the second as opposed to minute and according to an email I received this week the archive mover should be converting old style folders to packages, though I haven't had a chance to test that out since I'm still downloading it.

http://www.vidcan.com/Software/Downloads.html

Noted a new "feature" in the conflict manager.

It finally lets you edit what you just entered in creating a conflict versus before where it would throw up the other conflicting show(s) and force you to cancel one of them.

Other good news. The licensing issue with non-recognition of my EyeTV 500s is gone as of the last EyeTV 2.2 build and also in 2.2.1. Hurray!

Didn't see this addressed in my quick search of the thread...

Apparantly my cable co, TWC, simulcasts their analog feed in QAM. If I am understanding what they are doing correctly, does this mean that with an Eye 500 I would be able to record any channel that is not "flagged?" Does anyone have experience with this? Or should I just expect to record the unencrypted "digital tier" and unencrypted HD channels?

Thanks!

--Carl

Whatever it tunes you can record. Really depends on what's encrypted and what's not. Some places have stuff like the Weather Channel, Nicelodeon, etc. Others only get locals, public access, plus local HD. Others get a lot less.

Carl, Joe's right, you won't really know what you'll get unless you check in with your local HDTV thread and touch base with other local cable subscribers as far as QAM. I just started getting HGTV and FoodTV last week, though lost ESPN-HD, INHD1 and INHD2. The good thing about most of those local threads, though, is you can usually find the exact channel assignments, so even if the initial EyeTV QAM scan doesn't turn up a channel you know (from other users) that should be there--it'll allow you to manually tune it in for the guide. So say you know you should have three HD channels in the clear, say at 621 MHz, within the EyeTV channel management screen you can enter 621000 and bingo, they'll just show up and you can assign them.

Has anybody noticed inability of their CoreDuo Mac Mini to go back to sleep following a recording with EyeTV 2.2.1? Mine's been doing that 100% of the time. It awakens to make the EyeTV 500 recording, but it never goes back to sleep. It has no problem going to sleep under any other circumstance I've seen... just following an EyeTV 2.21 recording. I'm not sure if it was an issue with 2.2 since I used that version so briefly.

If I am alone with this behavior I'll have to revert to 1.8.5 and see if it persists. I'm running OS 10.4.6 and all current Apple updates except the latest security patch after 10.4.6.

Thanks.

Doesn't seem to go to sleep, but display power off and drive spin down will occur. Never noticed it because I don't bother with sleep unless I know the machine won't be in use for some time.

Anybody else? If this is a problem with EyeTV2 I'll report it to ElGato. My 17" PowerBook G4 goes to sleep just fine after recording in EyeTV 2.2.1. I never had a sleep problem in 1.8.5. I'd rather Sleep worked the way it should.

I recall having some sleep problems on my PowerBook with EyeTV 1.8.1 or 1.8.2, but that was sporadic, say 50/50. This Intel Mac sleep failure is 100%.

It's not a huge problem during the winter, spring and autumn months. But it means more $ for air conditioning during the summer. It also means the Mini's fans run all the time leading to more dust accumulation inside.

Has anybody with a CoreDuo iMac / MacBook / MBP noticed sleep failure in EyeTV2?

My Core Duo mini does not seem to sleep either (ever), unless I go to Sleep in the Apple menu. I have 2.2.1, but I also have the Apple Wireless Keyboard and BlueTake BT mouse. Not sure if the Bluetooth devices keep polling the mini, which might keep it from going to sleep.

I doubt it's Bluetooth that interferes with sleep. I have Apple's BT mouse and keyboard on my CoreDuo Mini and a BT keyboard for my Powerbook. My Mini sleeps just fine every time EXCEPT following an EyeTV2 recording. My PowerBook sleeps every time, even after an EyeTV 2.2.1 recording. It's a good theory but I don't think BT holds up as the cause of our Intel Mac sleep issue.

It was a long shot.

Thanks for the info guys!

--Carl

I've been corresponding with Nick about another EyeTV 2.2.1 issue that affects both our CoreDuo Mini in our family room and my 17" PowerBook, both running OS 10.4.6. He states ElGato's test Macs don't have the issue. He asked me to inquire whether others have it.

Our issue is EyeTV has amnesia about video thumbnail sizes. Nick says EyeTV is supposed to remember what size we make the thumbnails using the column slider, but it doesn't work on our Macs. Whenever I switch to Schedules, Channels or Program Guide, and then switch back to Recordings, thumbnails revert back to their original default sizes. Quitting and restarting EyeTV also loses thumbnail size adjustments.

Nick's thought was that our com.elgato.eyetv.plist files were not getting updated. He wondered if we were running non-admin accounts. But both machines are running in admin accounts and the plist files seem to be updating.

Thumbnail amnesia is an issue when we're using our EDTV plasma as the primary display. We can only see four show titles at a time when thumbnails are at their default sizes. Shrinking thumbnails down to their smallest sizes allows us to view 7 titles on the screen. That's a huge advantage when we're scrolling through hundreds of titles. The problem is we have to shrink the thumbnails every time we switch views.

Does anybody else have EyeTV thumbnail amnesia? If so, is there any work-around?

Thanks.

I haven't seen this behavior. I generally keep the slider all the way to the smallest thumbnail for exactly the reason you mention. But, they stay that way and always have. I use my Panasonic HDTV plasma as the only display normally.

EyeTV 2.2.1, Core Duo mini, 10.4.6

Thanks Lazlo. I installed EyeTV 2.2.1 on my G4 Mac Mini (OS 10.4.4) last eveining and it behaves the same on my G4 Mini as my CoreDuo Mini and Powerbook -- thumbnails don't stay small after switching views. That makes 0/3 for my Macs remembering thumbnail sizes.

I tried locating the setting for thumbnail sizes in com.elgato.eyetv.plist using Property List Editor but it's unclear to me which variable to change. "Size factor" and "E2 categories table width" seem likely candidates. I'm hesitant to start hacking the plist file without understanding what I'm doing. I'll ask Nick which variable should be changed.

Anyone else's feedback about 'thumnail size amnesia' or sleep-after-recording on Intel Macs would be appreciated. I hope to see these issues addressed in the next release.

I switched to the freeware program Pref Setter (http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/26268) which is more robust than Apple's Property List Editor. Pref Setter is highly recommended!

Digging around in com.elgato.eyetv.plist, I see a record titled "E2 recordings layout" with a field titled "column layout" that contains objects 0-5. Those objects correspond to the five columns in the EyeTV 2.2.1 recordings view: Preview, Title, Duration, Date, and Size. Dragging the column width slider for any of these columns changes the values in the plist file objects' widths settings upon quitting EyeTV. The default width integer for Object 1 is 115. Dragging the Preview column to its narrowest width and quitting EyeTV changes Object 1's width integer to 86. So far, so good. However after I relaunch EyeTV 2.2.1, the Preview column visibly returns to the default width. Upon immediately quitting EyeTV I see that Object 1's width integer reverts back to 115.

I conclude that EyeTV 2.2.1 writes the Preview column width info to the plist file but it incorrectly restores the width setting the next time it's run. Or, alternatively, EyeTV may read the width data correctly but then another subroutine causes it to revert to 115 before the Recordings window can be updated. Either way I demonstrated that it's not a plist write failure.

Any other ideas where to go with this debugging effort? It will be hard to persuade ElGato to do anything about this if they can't see it for themselves.

Has anybody noticed inability of their CoreDuo Mac Mini to go back to sleep following a recording with EyeTV 2.2.1? Mine's been doing that 100% of the time. It awakens to make the EyeTV 500 recording, but it never goes back to sleep. It has no problem going to sleep under any other circumstance I've seen... just following an EyeTV 2.21 recording. I'm not sure if it was an issue with 2.2 since I used that version so briefly.

If I am alone with this behavior I'll have to revert to 1.8.5 and see if it persists. I'm running OS 10.4.6 and all current Apple updates except the latest security patch after 10.4.6.

Thanks.

I have the same issue with it not going back to sleep. I also have a problem when trying to use another program at the same time as eye tv is running, I get no sound from the other programs - ie. Itunes, Garage Band.

Thats an esay one.

There is a known bug (for some time) in the EyeTv software. You can't leave it on the "Digital Audio" sound input setting. You have to switch it back to "System Sound" in order for itunes to work (or any other audio for that matter)

I have the same issue with it not going back to sleep. I also have a problem when trying to use another program at the same time as eye tv is running, I get no sound from the other programs - ie. Itunes, Garage Band.

Thats an esay one.

There is a known bug (for some time) in the EyeTv software. You can't leave it on the "Digital Audio" sound input setting. You have to switch it back to "System Sound" in order for itunes to work (or any other audio for that matter)

Thanks for the info.

There is a known bug (for some time) in the EyeTv software. You can't leave it on the "Digital Audio" sound input setting. You have to switch it back to "System Sound" in order for itunes to work (or any other audio for that matter)

So is that an EyeTV bug or an operating system bug? I've always thought it had something to do with the way Apple implemented digital audio in Mac OS X.

Dennis

Yeah, that is an issue with OS X, not ElGato. Apple's CoreAudio only allows one app at a time to control the Digital Passthrough output. By decoding the sound through the software first and then outputting it as PCM through the digital out on a mac, sound can come from multiple sources.

Try playing a DVD with Apple DVD Player and having the audio set to "Digital Out - Builtin audio" instead of "System sound output"... you won't hear audio from any other apps either (including EyeTV). In order for that to work, Mac OS X would need to do two things: 1.) mix digital audio sources (ie. mix the AC-3 or DTS from the DVD with the AC-3 from EyeTV), which I am not aware of any software or device that can do that; or 2.) encode all internal PCM audio on the fly in real time to AC-3 or DTS when outputting it.

Since the EyeTV 500 can only support HDTV, and most channels in my area (Denver) are still using SDTV, can I connect both an EyeTV 500 and an EyeTV EZ, or other SDTV receiver and use both of them inside the EyeTV software?

I'd like to be able to seemlessly tune to SDTV and HDTV channels, record shows from both types of channels etc, without having to manually tell it which device to use or explicitly switch devices. Can EyeTV do this?

By the way, on the 5.1 audio output problem, why doesn't Mac OS X just allow whichever application is in the foreground to grab control of the 5.1 output? Mixing dolby digital streams together would be quite complex, as the streams contain dynamic compression information that is pre-computed in the studio. It would be hard to combine two streams without adding a lot of latency, because the compression data is non-causal (i.e. the compression data depends on future audio data, so it has to "look ahead"). I suppose one could mix the streams and just drop the compression data.

Gumbygo1,

Yes, I use both an EyeTV 200 and an EyeTV 500 on a single Mac.

-STS

Both an EyeTV 500 and a 200 or similar can exist on the same system. I currently have two 500s and one 200 on my system. There are separate channel lists for each tuner, ie. my EyeTV 200 has channels 2-98, EyeTV 500 #1 has channels 100-182, and EyeTV 500 #2 has channels 200-282. You can go to the TitanTV webpage (US) and configure the site for your tuners. In my case I have guides available for analog cable, digital OTA, and digital cable. Scheduling a recording through the site sets the appropriate tuner to record.

I have a problem with the Elgato 500 and eye tv 2.x (latest version). Elgato is working on this. If I set the Mac mini Core Duo up to record a channel and then turn off the TV, it will usually work. However if the TV is turned back on EYE tv will crash. I am hooked up to a RPTV 60 inch using DVI. I have to always remember never to turn the TV back on until the recording is finished. It is something to do with EYE tv needing a display and when the mini sees the display power up and has to negotiate the correct resolution with switchres x to 720P it crashes eye tv

Thanks for the warning.

My G4 mini's hooked up via VGA, so I haven't seen that problem (knock wood), but I also haven't upgraded it to 2.x yet. At least now I'll know what's going on if that starts happening.

Being a relatively slow part of the year for tv, I decided to swap my Intel Core Duo mini and older G4. The Intel was being used for the EyeTV 500, hooked up to a Panasonic HD plasma, and the G4 was my primary desktop. Seemed like a shame to "waste" all the functionality of the Intel mini on recording a few shows a week, so I swapped the two, putting the G4 in the entertainment center, hooked up to the EyeTV 500 and plasma display.

I gotta say, I'm impressed with the setup. Yeah, it isn't true high-def, since the G4 downscales to 1/4 resolution (1/2 x 1/2), but it's still a lot better than SD, and it's the widescreen format of my tv, so no stretching necessary. The fan comes on pretty quickly and runs full bore, but with a ReplayTV right next to it, it isn't much louder.

I should have tried this a long time ago.

G'day guys, fantastic forum you have here and this is one long but interesting thread. I have a question:

Executive Summary:

Has anyone experienced problems exporting in H.264 format directly from EyeTV where large parts of some movies become *very* pixelated or blocky unless the data rate is bumped up to 2500Kbps or more while the majority of other movies export fine at 1000Kbps or so?

Details:

I have an EyeTV 400 on an 1GB RAM iMac G5 which records MPEG-2 streams to disk and am very happy with it apart from this problem which has occurred in every version of EyeTV since v1.8.x to the latest v2.2.1 and the various versions of Quicktime and OS X from then till now (currently running QT 7.1.2 and OS X 10.4.7).

I export all the movies I record as H.264 and have to change the datarate to 2500Kbps (it annoyingly defaults to 500Kbps) which results in average length movies consuming around 2GB (I edit the ads out in the EyeTV Editor before exporting). I keep the resolution the same as the original (around 720 x 404) and the quality is fantastic.

I used to set the datarate to 1000Kbps or so but found that perhaps 1 in 4 movies would suddenly become *extremely* pixelated partway through as if H.264 suddenly gave up trying to achieve high quality at that lower datarate. The size of the movie file also ends up as being only about 350MB instead of the 2GBs of other movies which have successfully exported. Sometimes the movie refuses to export cleanly even if I bump the datarate up above 3000Kbps. Has anyone else had this problem?

H.264 does take a long time exporting (perhaps 15hrs per movie), but I leave our 1.8GHz iMac G5 churning away overnight and all day exporting movies in the background and it doesn't worry me. The 1.8GHz G5 isn't affected much at all while it exports in the background. The pristine DVD-quality of the result is more than worth it in my mind.

-Mart

Hey emach, I too have also experienced this problem when trying to export HDTV to H264 from my eyeTV500. I couldnt find the problem listed by anyone else, even on the EyeTV forums, and so I though I was the only one.... Thanks for letting me know I wasnt the only one with this problem. It occurs whenever I take a long (60min or more) HDTV recording and try to shrink it down to save some space. The export takes a long time, even on my Quad (since sold), and starts out okay when playing, but about 40-60 minutes into the playing of the H264 the quality goes way down and gets severely pixelated and poor. I noticed it first when exporting the Super Bowl. But it occurs on programs that are only 60 minutes long as well. Strangely it didnt happen every time. Just most of the time. I never figured out any kind of pattern.

I never tried adjusting the bitrate, instead just using the default settings in eyeTV/quicktime. I'll try increasing the default bitrate setting next time. Now I am using a black macbook instead of the Quad, and disk space is an issue, so I'm not sure how soon I'll get to try again.

I agree, the export takes a long time, but I noticed that eyeTV seems to be very efficient about using all available processors according to Activity Monitor.

-Dave

Hey guys, I stumbled across this thread via google, I didn't think about checking out the forums for HDTV on a Mac. So, I'm preparing for 'iTV' :) I was looking at the TVMini HD, but I saw a post a few pages back stating the EyeTV500 is better? Is that still the case. Is it because of Firewire?

Anything I should know? I just want to get my mac into a media server mode, download DVDs, record HD programs and then stream them over iTV when it's released. I have a dual 2.3 G5, how much memory should I have? I have 2 gigs currently, I might up that. I know I'll need some serious storage as well.

Hey guys, I stumbled across this thread via google, I didn't think about checking out the forums for HDTV on a Mac. So, I'm preparing for 'iTV' :) I was looking at the TVMini HD, but I saw a post a few pages back stating the EyeTV500 is better? Is that still the case.

Absolutely! Full disclosure: I own 2 500s. FYI: El Gato often has refurbished units on their site for $199 vs $349 new.

Is it because of Firewire?

Firewire and also it's ability to tune in QAM (unencrypted digital cable) are the main reasons people site when choosing between the 500 and new EyeTV Hybrid.

then stream them over iTV when it's released.

Is HD an announced feature of the iTV? Wirelessly streaming HD content is difficult under the best of circumstances and can quickly fall apart. This seems to contrast with the iTV prominently-featured wireless capability. Plugging into a network is an entirely other story, of course and is how HD could be served/streamed to the iTV.

I have a dual 2.3 G5, how much memory should I have? I have 2 gigs currently, I might up that. I know I'll need some serious storage as well.

That is enough to record and playback HD. I only need 1gb of RAM in my Intel Mini to simultaneously record two HD programs while watching a third HD recording, so 2 gigs should be enough unless you're running PS or FCP at the same time.

jwcrash, thanks for the link. However, after reading over it seems that's or the mini. I don't plan on using a mini. I want to use my G5 as the HTPC and use the iTV as the streaming device to my HT. Just looking for advice on getting HD on my G5 to record so I can use it as a PVR.

jwcrash- I just assumed I could stream HD form my mac using iTV. I mean really would Apple leave out such a big feature? Or do you think iTV could be hardwired for HD? Hmmm....

As for eyetv, I saw a refurbed unit on elgato's website, but they seem to no longer sell the eyetv500 new? Why not?

jwcrash- I just assumed I could stream HD form my mac using iTV. I mean really would Apple leave out such a big feature? Or do you think iTV could be hardwired for HD? Hmmm....

You're absolutely right that HD is a big feature. And the fact that it wasn't mentioned during the presentation is one of the reasons I'm not positive it's going to be included. You'd think Jobs would have at least mentioned HD. And he didn't.

The emphasis on wireless was also a red flag...I haven't read many account of people consistantly streaming HD over a wireless network. Maybe things will be worked out when it's finally released next year but that's bleeding edge technology today.

As for eyetv, I saw a refurbed unit on elgato's website, but they seem to no longer sell the eyetv500 new? Why not?

El Gato replaced the 500 with the new Hybrid.

Well, the apologista press claims that the reason the iTV is delayed until next FY is that they're waiting for 11n to be agreed upon so that wireless HD streaming might be possible.

The few pictures I've seen of the iTV showed component outputs. I'm assuming HDMI would have been on there, too, but since I don't have an HDMI set, I wasn't really looking for that.

But, I quite agree with the others: Not having HD is so 20 minutes ago that I just wouldn't bother with it. I don't care whether it's wireless or not, since I'm going to used wired anyway, but it definitely better have realistic HD streaming (meaning at least 20Mbps so that at a minimum, it can keep up with broadcast HD).

And, as for the hybrid: it is no reasonable replacement for the 500.

And, as for the hybrid: it is no reasonable replacement for the 500.

I wholeheartedly concur.

:D

I thought the hybrid was a replacement, wow, more like a downgrade. So then should I jump on a refurb? New to the HD on a mac wanting o stream it to my HT game and not sure if maybe something else is in the pipeline soon.

How about the Miglia TV Mini HD? Is that a reasonable replacement for the eyeTV500? There is a link to it on the El Gato Hybrid page. The TV Mini HD lacks firewire out, but does have USB 2.0, and also decodes unencrypted QAM.

The TV Mini isn't a suitable replacement either.

I love mine, it is plugged into a miniStack, sitting on top of my mini, with a whopper 500GB drive to store all the HD shows I have recorded and am slowly watching. Pretty blue lights, works fine and since I give my cable company a ridiculous amount of money each month I have a pretty good set of unencrypted locals to play with and some weird things that I can not figure out why they show up. I get all the network/OTA locals and their subchannels which includes The Tube, I have hundreds of music videos now with nice digital sound. I also get Outdoor Life and some weird college sports channel and Tennis TV, TOON, and Soap over the QAM. TitanTV does not automatically figure things out but you can add the channels and get the listings to work, mostly.

The EyeTV software is pretty good some things are hard (no back button so searching and comparing to an already existing playlist is awkward, split recordings are hard, etc.) and some things are slow, very very slow, forget about taking an HD show and sending it to DVD unless you have hours and hours and hours to walk away and let it transcode but that is not really Elgato's fault...

I don't care about analog since I have 3 Replay boxes for that. I also like the idea that the hard drive is mine to worry about, I can get more and as cheaply as possible.

I just hope that the iTV thingy will keep the FrontRow integration that 2.3 has so I will be able to watch seamlessly my .mpg's from the Replay which are happy to play fine in iTunes and the Miglia HD captured shows....time will tell.

If I could only drop my .m2t's on iTunes or EyeTV.....that would be fun as well...

Well we need something. When iTV comes out early next year I'm going to need a dual tuner HD box connected to my Mac to complete my setup. Then I can finally ditch my HD TiVO :)

I am also trying to decide between the TV Mini HD and a refurbished EyeTV 500, which will be hooked up to a 1.66 mHz core duo mini with 2 GB ram, output to a 42" LCD. Joseph, I've read your recent posts in several threads and it seems like you have two main complaints about the TV Mini: It only has one input and the USB connection is unreliable at times. Is that a correct summary of your opinion of the product? Can you elaborate on any specific problems you've had?

I understand the technical reasons why firewire is a better solution, but if in practice the two products work equally well I'd prefer the Miglia's nicer form factor (especially given the prices are equal right now). bbbobbb and others have reported no USB-related trouble when using a newer Mac mini, but others insist it is a problem. It makes the decision tricky.

Also, does anyone know of any efforts to get either of these products running under Windows? I read something about a TVMini driver for windows a while ago, but I can't find the links anymore.

-MDR

I have both the EyeTV 500 and the Miglia Mini HD and the only difference is that the Miglia only has one input. Not a big deal if you plan to use it for Clear QAM HD. Both perform equally as well.

On the possibility of replacing the Motorola DVR cable box or TIVO HD box, i wouldn't hold my breath if you want all of the available HD stations.

So far only the national network HD stations and maybe one or two unencrypted ones are Clear QAM. In San Francisco, we don't get ESPN; ESPN2; TNT; inHD; or any of the premium channels via Clear QAM.

On the iTV setup, from all indications it will support high definition programming wirelessly. They are waiting for 802.11n to be approved. All of the documentation on that protocol shows that it will support transferring big files fast wirelessly. Perfect for HD viewing. And yes. The iTV has HDMI output built-in. No way it only supports standard definition with an HDMI connector. There have been rumors that there will be some form of hard drive storage in this device. I'm sure they will need some form of streaming storage. We shall see.

jyeesf- Re: iTV streaming HD, is this from new info, or your conclusions based on available information? I also think the HDMI is a big sign, but then you wonder why not a true DVD res on the iTunes movies? Just seems odd to be capable of streaming HD but iTunes only sells less then DVD res movies. I just hope some of the specs change before it's released.

kidred:

Pretty much my conclusion from the available information. The HDMI is the key to HD programming in the future.

On the current iTunes store resolution? No iTV yet. Right now, this is for iPod videos and computer desktop watching.

I predict that when the iTV is officially released, we shall see streaming HD (similar to the current trailers).

Plus i wouldn't be surprised that Apple offers their own living room LCD displays (42" 1080p and up).

That's true. Why would Apple do 1080p and 720p trailers-just to be cool? I didn't think of that. So HD trailers and HDMI on iTV makes it easier to hope for HD streaming even if I have to wire it, I just want the support for it. Damn, January can't come fast enough.

As for displays, engadget.com ran a rumor about Apple doing HD panels. Imagine a flatpanel with iTV integrated :) I'd have to find a place to put it, lol

Kid Red:

I think there will be a final announcement about the specs by Macworld San Francisco in January but we won't see shipping iTV's until 802.11N has been ratified. I'm thinking the latter half of the 1st quarter 2007.

I would think that the profit margins on Apple branded and calibrated HDTV displays would be bigger than computers. They have a built-in loyalty factor and if it is straight plug and play as Apple is famous for, they'd sell a lot of them.

I agree. Apple will make money off of almost anything decent they make, loyal base :) So March or so you think? That's a long wait. I'd go for the mini, it's just twice the price and it's bigger. All I really want is to get content from my computer to my TV. (of course, I'll have to get content too)

I recently got a referb EyeTV 500, and I've been very happy with my first exposure to HDTV quality. One big problem though -- I can get only one channel -- WCBS.

Before you start throwing rotten fruit at me, I posted in the "New York OTA" thread about this days ago, and haven't gotten a single answer.

The story is: I live in the west 70s in Manhattan, facing south, fourth floor in a five floor building. There is no line of sight to the Empire State Building. I have attached a Silver Sensor antenna to the EyeTV 500, pointed south towards the balcony door. Doing the initial setup auto-tune produced only WCBS, and when manually tuning other stations (I looked up the UHF channels for WNBC, WABC, etc in Wikkipedia), the signal indicator/signal quality cycles many times a minute between what I have on the working WCBS and nothing, and I haven't been able to lock onto them or get a picture.

So my questions are:
1) Is simply specifying UHF channel good enough for manual tuning or do I need to fine tune the frequency as well (and how do I get the correct frequency)? Or should I not even bother is auto-tuning won't work?

2) Should I bother trying to put an antenna on the roof which is about 25~30 ft higher (still no line of sight to the ESB) and if so what kind?

3) Should I just forget all of the above and hope for clear QAM via Time Warner Cable? Can I go to someone else's house in Manhattan and test with their cable, or is there no guarantee that clear QAM service will be identical throughout the borough on TWC?

Thanks for any answers on these off-topic questions -- I am hoping that this Mac-centric environment will prove friendlier than the on-topic thread elsewhere...

Ted

I would start out by taking the one channel you can get, viewing the signal meter, and turning the antenna to see if the balcony really is the best direction to point it.

Another thing I would try is putting the antenna out on the balcony just to see if it works better. If it work great, then put an antenna on the balcony and use special wiring to deal with the door. Again, I would point it in different directions to see what works best. An acquaintance of mine in Huntington Beach, CA, got the best reception when he pointed his antenna towards the ocean.

I don't think there is any fine tuning that can be done with respect to frequencies.

I am attempting to use my new Westinghouse LVM-42w2 1080p LCD HD monitor with my Mac G5 and Eyetv 500 2.x software thru a DVI cable in a non-mirrored dual monitor set-up.

When I watch HD programming, a horizonal line artifact appears whenever there is fast movement or even a slow pan. As far as where on the screen the line appears, the line appears in different locations as it seems to scroll from top to bottom, making a complete cycle approx every 30 secs (it does not show up if there is no movement in a scene or if I simply have a static desktop image displayed).

I have been watching Eyetv hd programming on a 23 inch HD cinema display for the past two years and have not experienced this horizontal line artifact (or I hadnt noticed it. ) I did tons of research and purchased this monitor specifically to be used as my Eyetv entertainment hub.

The display properties being used are the defaults set up by the manufacturer - 1920x1080 at 60khz.

I will attempt to use a grounding adapter, but since the line scrolls from top to bottom rather than the reverse, I'm not hopeful. I have also posted this in the appropriate monitors forum, but since this monitor is destined for eyetv, I was hoping others had experienced this issue with different monitors and fixed it.

As long as we're on the topic of secondary monitors, has anyone followed the faq on the support page to adjust settings in terminal and use the full screen menu on a secondary display? Right now I'm dragging the program window over and then watching FS; how would making the adjustments in terminal change this process?

I've noticed the same thing.

Always assumed it was an artifact of 60Hz refresh on the secondary monitor vs. 59.95 of real TV, but never really got far enough into it to say for sure.

I have also notived the same thing. For me, it goes away if I do one of two things:

1) Use only one monitor

or

2) Mirror the monitors.

Alex

I think I've seen it but only occasionally. I use a 17" ViewSonic as a second monitor (22" Cinema as main), and, certainly not enough to be a problem. But, I'm using a G4 MDD and maybe doing the 1/4-resolution it isn't as apparent.

I have also notived the same thing. For me, it goes away if I do one of two things:

1) Use only one monitor

or

2) Mirror the monitors.

Alex

I should add that I had the problem both with a Dual G5 with an ATI 9600XT and with a brand new iMac.

setting it up as one monitor works;

setting it up as mirrored works some of the time.

If changing the settings in terminal to output eyetv to a second monitor ( a hidden feature detailed on elgato's site in the faqs) doesnt fix the problem then I'll need to continue to use the above suggestions.

A related question...if I'm mirroring and I'd like to shut off the 23 inch HD Cinema Display (white plastic monitor casing), how do i do that? Currently, if I hit the power button on the monitor, the mac is set to go into sleep mode, when really all I want to do is shut off the display while watching eyetv on the 42 inch monitor.

I'm sorry I haven't read this whole thread, but I have an EyeTV 500 along with four SD tuners that have built-in hardware encoding. So, do you guys know any good network media players that work well with EyeTV (v.2)? For now, HD is not a big concern if the player works well and isn't too expensive. In any case, I guess I'll have to get EyeConnect too. Thanks.

I'm sorry I haven't read this whole thread, but I have an EyeTV 500 along with four SD tuners that have built-in hardware encoding. So, do you guys know any good network media players that work well with EyeTV (v.2)? For now, HD is not a big concern if the player works well and isn't too expensive. In any case, I guess I'll have to get EyeConnect too. Thanks.

Check through these thread and the 'DVD Player' threads for more on media players, there are a few Mac guys using them so you'll need to do some searches. (There's the IOData/JVC one, and Snazio and one other I can't think of--I'm subscribed to most of those threads and they've got relatively silent lately, so search is your best chance.)
I would like to go to the new Pioneer blu-ray player, which is DLNA compatible so it will work with eyeConnect (http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyeconnect)--also hope with blu-ray support (i.e. MPEG4) it will be able to play iTunes [Store] content.

Thanks, gaderson. Maybe the other player you are trying to think of is the Buffalo Linktheater? The Snazio doesn't play any h264 nor AAC. That's a bummer for a lot of the content on my hard drives. I haven't heard anything about the IO Data player, but I've heard of people having problems with the Buffalo. I get the feeling that none of them are very good yet. I bet Apple's forthcoming "iTV" will work well, but $300 per TV is a bit pricey for SD content, which is at least 99% of what I want to share for now and I can live without sharing the other 1%.

I was hoping that there would be something like the old EyeHome out there that would at least play MP3 and AAC audio and MPEG2 and DivX video. The EyeHome was $200 when it came out a few years ago and I thought it (or something similar) might be down to around $100 by now, but I guess not. The $100 Buffalo mini is extremely limited in codec support, and the players I've seen with more support are at least $250 and buggy.

Would someone take a minute and explain how they use a symlink to an external drive for their EyeTV Archive. I create a symlink in my ~/Documents folder that points to my external hard drive EyeTV Archive folder. When I run EyeTV it loads but just sits in task bar. It doesn't show the controller or live tv window. I'm sure that I must be overlooking something simple, but I just can't get it.

I'm not sure I understand your question, but my EyeTV archive is on another computer on my LAN. I didn't use a symlink (is that a Windows o/s term for something that takes you to another folder?). I went into EyeTV preferences, selected the recording tab, and clicked the button that says something like "change archive location." I hope that helps.

I'm currently doing just what you described, I changed the setting in the preferences for the recordings. I wanted to setup it up like Elgato describes in their faq #413 regarding external drives. I've seen where others in the forum have used the symlinks to point to where their EyeTV Archive resides.

What is a symlink and what is it's advantage?

EyeTV, as I discovered, will even happily let you have files on multiple drives/locations. No aliases (which is what we call them in Mac OS X) needed.

I'm currently doing just what you described, I changed the setting in the preferences for the recordings. I wanted to setup it up like Elgato describes in their faq #413 regarding external drives. I've seen where others in the forum have used the symlinks to point to where their EyeTV Archive resides.

I'm not sure if your question has been answered, and there is a FAQ as indicated at elgato's website. But basically, if all you want is for your EyeTV Archive to be on a different drive, you don't need a symlynk (alias), you just need to change your preferences. If you want to use *multiple* drives for your recordings, the way you do that is to go to your EyeTV Archive folder (regardless of what drive it's on), and make an alias to another *folder* on another drive. That folder is now part of your EyeTV Archive. There are two things you can do with it: 1) copy recordings to it, and then delete the originals, to free up space on the drive containing the EyeTV Archive folder (e.g.. for future recordings). 2) copy .eyetvsched files into the folder, and then delete the originals; then when those schedules trigger, their recordings will end up in the sub-folder and thus on the 2nd drive.

Ted,

This is the kind of message that I was inquiring about. As avramd pointed out, you can use symlinks to direct EyeTV to record in a different location and copy the originals to the new location. From your response, you must just change the setting in the preferences and restart EyeTV to pickup the new location. If this is not true can you please explain.

I'm running EyeTV on a Powerbook 12" G4, I do not want to use the internal hard drive as my EyeTV Archive. I just want to redirect, either though an alias or change in preferences, to my external hard drive. Just trying to get a feel for which method is used most often.

For external drive number 1 I changed preferences. For drive number 2 I copies some EyeTV recordings over from another machine. When I double clicked them in the Finder, they were automatically added to EyeTVs "Recordings" pane.

Thus: no aliases and no need to change preferences back and forth. In the recordings pane EyeTV makes no distinction between the different drives -- it just uses the one in the preference for new recordings.

Has anyone seen a problem where EyeTV wakes your machine up as expected/appropriate for an event, but doesn't start recording? My coworker is seeing this, where the machine is in some funky not-asleep but asleep mode where it wakes up but doesn't record, every once in awhile.

does it not take any action at all, or does the previously scheduled program show up in Recordings just with a 0 GB file size?

Quick editing question: Is there any way to merge two recording?

Unfortunately if you record back to back shows like The Tonight Show followed by Conan O'Brian, the cut-over doesn't happen in the right place. Typically it cuts out right in the middle of Leno's last guest (say a band). I successfully "saved as recording" the two halves of a song from the two shows, but can't see any way in EyeTV to merge them.

Is the only work around to set the recording to the first show only and add an extra hour to the recording time?

Just go into your recording schedule and adjust the ending time of Leno and the starting time of Conan so the cut-over happens at the right time. I did that for ER.

Just go into your recording schedule and adjust the ending time of Leno and the starting time of Conan so the cut-over happens at the right time. I did that for ER.

Except even those of us with multiple tuners have found, if you are recording two shows, one after the other on the same channel, the 30 second difference between when the 'hour' ends can mess up that overlap. I do wish you could merge, but, I think you'll need to use MPEG Streamclip, ProjectX and other byzantine methods) and then reimport. Unless you can amend in Streamclip and open the show back up in eyeTV--haven't tried that yet.

I just got a Newertech Ministack V2 (will report on noise). Where do I daisy chain it in relation to the EyeTV 500 -- MacMini to EyeTV to Ministack (which is a Firewire hub) or MacMini to Ministack to EyeTV?

Does anyone have experience with the EyeTV 500 & powered Firewire hubs?

Getting back to merging recordings -- how about in Toast? I have a few saved band clips in EyeTV, that I would love to combine on one DVD-Video via Toast -- can that be done?

Thanks!

I've taken a dozen mp4 video clips that I dragged to the Toast DVD window. There was some kind of check box or something to tell Toast to make each clip into a separate chapter on the DVD. It even has a menu on the DVD to jump straight to the chapter.

Has anyone run into a problem with EyeTV 2.x (2.3.3 I think, but I'm not at home to check) where exported Divx files blink constantly? I might have messed up a setting or two but I'm not sure what I did to cause that. Or is exporting in general dodgy?

Otherwise, I've been really happy with my Hybrid. OTA HD, breakout cables for either a cable box or game console. Everything I could want since I don't own another display device.

I just got a Newertech Ministack V2 (will report on noise). Where do I daisy chain it in relation to the EyeTV 500 -- MacMini to EyeTV to Ministack (which is a Firewire hub) or MacMini to Ministack to EyeTV?

I'm currently running my dual eyeTV 500s daisy-chained through a firewire drive with no problems (my stupid G4 has rather flaky FW ports). And the two are daisy-chained together. Things have been much more stable lately.

Does anyone have experience with the EyeTV 500 & powered Firewire hubs?

While troubleshooting my FW issues I did successfully run them off a small Kensington firewire hub. It may even be better to go of a hub as it should have more reliable power than an overloaded mac.

Getting back to merging recordings -- how about in Toast? I have a few saved band clips in EyeTV, that I would love to combine on one DVD-Video via Toast -- can that be done?

Thanks!

I think you might experiment with the setting for 'play on open' or 'play through' within toast. Also check out their forums as you can find some good pointers if you can figure out the right search terms. I need to check my sources at El Gato to see whether this might be a feature that could be added.

p.s. I picked up some maxelerate (http://wiebetech.com/products/maxelerate.php) external 'Mac mini like' hard drive case and have been thinking of using it with my e500s, and attaching each one to a port on it's hub.

Does anyone have experience with the EyeTV 500 & powered Firewire hubs?

No, never had one, but I have two EyeTV500s just like gaderson. I always managed, after some trial and error, to find a glitch-free way to daisychain them both in to the one firewire port of a typical low-end Mac, initially a G4 mini, then a core duo mini, and currently a Macbook.

While troubleshooting my FW issues I did successfully run them off a small Kensington firewire hub. It may even be better to go off a hub as it should have more reliable power than an overloaded mac.

Right, though I never used a powered hub or anything like the Newertech, the keys for me for a successful dual EyeTV firewire daisychain were:

1) don't use any cheap devices or bargain enclosures with crappy firewire chipsets or unidentified bridgeboards--in my case that meant Oxford all the way, they play nice with each other, and chained they sleep, wake and spin down harmoniously--this seems as important a consideration as power in order to ensure proper recordings;

2) always have the two bus-powered 500s connected to each other and in between the powered Mac port and a powered hard drive enclosure (like gaderson did.) At our living room HDTV at the moment I go Macbook > dual 500s > firewire enclosure A > firewire enclosure B. Enclosure A is where all local high def recordings are archived. The last enclosure (B) is one with hot-swappable trays--so I can swap 300-500GB drives in and out without having to dismount any other devices.

In my setup, I never turn this Mac off, but I do allow it to sleep and to spin down the external hard drive enclosures--that's an additional layer of complication for a long daisychain in your home theater. How well each Mac copes with this will really depend on the Mac and your devices--some folks have to keep their Mac on 24/7 to get this to work 100%, others have had to swap out a drive or an enclosure to get everything to play nice. So you'll have some trial and error ahead with that Newertech, and it'll probably be the Newertech--and its build quality--which determines where the 500 should be placed.

My trials where I split the 500s apart, or moved the 500s deeper into the chain, so the first unit was not directly connected to the Mac, performed less reliably.

(It's not a factor now, since all cheap Macs have built-in digital out, but this once was MORE complicated with the G4s that required an external M-audio sound card in order to get digital audio out. M-audio drivers were always playing catch-up with Tiger releases and EyeTV software kept having to catch up to glitches with all the different M-audio products. Eventually they caught up but there's still a digital audio EyeTV issue with the newest Macs. At least this last issue doesn't seem to be related to power or a daisychain: very infrequent kernel panics due to some unexplained digital audio issue, downplayed by El Gato for at least 6 months, who passed the buck back to Apple anyway--seem to happen regardless of whether the 500s are alone or daisychained. So not to worry on that front. I've had 5 since Jan 1st, only during playback, and considering how often I'm using them it's not that big a deal. The reason I'm still susceptible to them is I refuse to switch off digital and back to system sound out.

...I always managed, after some trial and error, to find a glitch-free way to daisychain them both in to the one firewire port of a typical low-end Mac, initially a G4 mini...

You were able to record two HD feeds simultaneously on a G4 Mini? I had an EyeTV 500 connected to a dual G5 and I found my system slowed to a crawl whenever I recorded one channel.

I finally disconnected my 500 in favor of a couple SD tuners with hardware compression. I didn't think that should hit the CPU at all, but I still have a noticeable drag when the EyeTV app is running.

I also have a problem with HD playback on my dual G5, but that's a separate issue. I wish we could use one of those cheap Windows video cards that have built-in x.264, DivX, MPEG2, and WMV playback acceleration.

I had an EyeTV 500 connected to a dual G5 and I found my system slowed to a crawl whenever I recorded one channel.
Sounds like something was wrong in your setup. Recording content should be pretty inexpensive as it is just writing bits to the drive, no encoding issues etc. A number of people have mentioned using old iMacs to record shows and then use their G5's for playback.

I also have a problem with HD playback on my dual G5, but that's a separate issue. I wish we could use one of those cheap Windows video cards that have built-in x.264, DivX, MPEG2, and WMV playback acceleration.

I haven't recorded yet, but I have played back HD programs downloaded from torrent sites and had no issues on my dual G5. Although, playback of just recorded HD from EyeTV might be different. This is interesting and disappointing as I plan on getting an EyeTV to record HD on my G5.

You were able to record two HD feeds simultaneously on a G4 Mini?

Yes, no problem, and that was with a 1.24 GHz mini. But realize no windows were open, I wasn't trying to watch something live while recording. And I agree with Kevin, sounds like you have a couple of issues Neil. What OS and software versions are you running, how much RAM do you have in each machine, where was your EyeTV archive located--internal, external? do you have other firewire devices hooked up, any PCI cards or weird drivers installed?

Sounds like something was wrong in your setup. Recording content should be pretty inexpensive as it is just writing bits to the drive, no encoding issues etc. A number of people have mentioned using old iMacs to record shows and then use their G5's for playback.

Maybe slowing to a crawl was a bit of an exaggeration, but the slow-down was obvious enough to be noticeable. Maybe I should try connecting my EyeTV 500 to my old Quicksilver G4/733. If people use old iMacs, then the g4 should work.

I haven't recorded yet, but I have played back HD programs downloaded from torrent sites and had no issues on my dual G5. Although, playback of just recorded HD from EyeTV might be different. This is interesting and disappointing as I plan on getting an EyeTV to record HD on my G5.

Did you download 720p content? Was it encoded with x.264 or the less CPU intensive MPEG2? I drop some frames with MPEG2, but x.264 downloads are usually unplayable to me. I have been able to play some 720p x.264 movie trailers, but they must have been encoded in the simple profile.

Yes, no problem, and that was with a 1.24 GHz mini. But realize no windows were open, I wasn't trying to watch something live while recording. And I agree with Kevin, sounds like you have a couple of issues Neil. What OS and software versions are you running, how much RAM do you have in each machine, where was your EyeTV archive located--internal, external? do you have other firewire devices hooked up, any PCI cards or weird drivers installed?

dual G5/2.0
Mac O/S 10.4.9
1.5gig ram
EyeTV v.2.3.3
archive located on the G4 Mac connected via 100baseT Ethernet
there was at least one external hard drive connected on the same FireWire bus
the only PCI card installed is the unused Miglia Alchemy video capture/tuner card
no weird drivers that I can think of

One was a 1080p BRD, not sure what the final file is encoded down to, but it's a .mwv file. Excellent detail and fills my 23" screen. Plays flawlessly unless I have iTunes and Safari background stuff going on. I have a 720p .mov trailer that plays flawlessly. I'm not quite sure how to check the encoding, but most of the HD files I've tried played fine.

I almost always have stuff going on in the background, but it's all pretty light. I often have files downloading from the net, e-mail and RSS feeds checking, several web pages refreshing, etc. I'm not running Photoshop filters or compressing video into h.264.

What is BRD?

archive located on the G4 Mac connected via 100baseT Ethernet

and the 500 was connected to the dual G5 or the G4? Troubleshooting-wise, let's go back a bit: did you ever simply try to record with the 500 and archive 1) to that individual Mac's internal drive and then 2) to a connected firewire drive?

Given your specs, which are current and good, gotta think it's ethernet, network, router-related more than anything else. You may eventually have to remove all traces of that Miglia Alchemy, but not just yet.

I almost always have stuff going on in the background, but it's all pretty light. I often have files downloading from the net, e-mail and RSS feeds checking, several web pages refreshing, etc. I'm not running Photoshop filters or compressing video into h.264.

What is BRD?

I have like 10 apps open so the film wasn't smooth. But, if I quit most of the intensive background stuff, the movie plays flawlessly, even at huge huge size.

BRD= Blu-Ray-Disk. It's a HD DVD (not sure how else to describe BRD from Sony). I've played HD movies, HD TV SHows and HD movie trailers all with relative ease.

The 500 was connected to the G5. I never tried changing the EyeTV archive.

Neil, so the G5 had the 500 and you only tried to record to an internal drive of the Quicksilver over your 100 ethernet network? I think the first thing you need to do is remove the "network" from this equation--keep activity monitor open and use either Powermac to record locally, internal or to a firewire external. Worry about pushing or pulling content out over your network later.

I've been thinking about giving that a shot, but I first want to get some disk utilities to clean my drives on the G5. I tried to clone it and had problems that look like they might be caused by disk directory corruption. Or, I'll try connecting the EyeTV 500 directly to the G4.

I ended up plugging it in the same way as before:

Intel Mini -> EyeTV 500 -> the new NewerTech MiniStack -> FW HD -> FW HD -> NEC DVD-R, and am left with a free FW port on the MiniStack (as well as one on the DVD-R at the end of the chain). No problems.

The MiniStack is fairly quiet. Not as quiet as the fanless FW-HD enclosures (from OWC, as was the MiniStack), but if you need a hub, it is fine. Its blue light is much less obnoxious than the horrific one on the FW enclosures.

I got an earlier NewerTech MiniStack, and lately, the fan bearing's been going south. It makes A LOT of noise. I pretty much have to leave the lid off to keep it from running that noisy fan continuously.

I just remembered one more detail. I had my EyeTV 500 daisy-chained to my Fire Wire hard drive rather than directly connected to my G5.

The reason I haven't already tied connecting the 500 to my G4 is that I'm still running Mac O/S 10.3 on it. I was expecting to upgrade my G5 to 10.5 and transfer my 10.4 license to the G4. EyeTV v2 requires 10.4. Now that 10.5 has been delayed til October, I might go ahead and install 10.4 on my G4 this spring anyway.

Read this thread full through a year ago when I got my EyeTV 500, but don't recall this problem specifically.

Setup - 1.66 Core Duo mini, 2 GB RAM, ministack w/320 GB drive, EyeTV running off of the ministack FW port, EyeTV 2.3.3. Video from mini to HDMI input of Panasonic plasma using DVI-HDMI adapter.

Problem - EyeTV often hangs (i.e., spinning beach ball). Sometimes recordings occur without a hitch, other times recordings occur, but the program is non-responsive and requires a force quit and restart. Some times recordings never start or area stuck at "0 seconds".

I have never had a recording fail if the tv is on when it is time to start. I am guessing this is related to the video output on the mini switching when I switch inputs on the tv to watch a DVD or my ReplayTV (both on separate component inputs).

Can't think of any other specific symptoms. I suppose I should take the ministack out of the equation and record directly to the internal disk for a while to make sure it isn't a drive spin-up problem. Any thoughts?

I've gotten recordings that ended up only zero seconds long even though I haven't been switching inputs.

I was having all kinds of hang issues with EyeTV 2.3.3. I backed up to 2.3.1 and haven't had a hang or zero second recording since...

I was having all kinds of hang issues with EyeTV 2.3.3. I backed up to 2.3.1 and haven't had a hang or zero second recording since...

I think I've heard that exact same comment elsewhere, perhaps at Version Tracker and perhaps more than twice.

... Problem - EyeTV often hangs (i.e., spinning beach ball). Sometimes recordings occur without a hitch, other times recordings occur, but the program is non-responsive and requires a force quit and restart. Some times recordings never start or area stuck at "0 seconds". ...

I have a similar setup, except I'm using an EyeTV Hybrid, and I'm experiencing problems too! For me, usually, EyeTV starts recording OK but becomes unresponsive and carries on until a) I notice and kill it, or b) it fills up the MiniStack and crashes. Twice recently, I've captured the report after killing EyeTV and it indicates the same thread crashed at the same place (first 15 lines shown below):

Date/Time: 2007-04-14 20:19:43.141 -0400
OS Version: 10.4.8 (Build 8L2127)
Report Version: 4

Command: EyeTV
Path: /Applications/EyeTV.app/Contents/MacOS/EyeTV
Parent: WindowServer [58]

Version: 2.3.3 (2.3.3)

PID: 1739
Thread: 0

Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS (0x0001) at 0x10948a5b

Thread 0 Crashed:
0 libobjc.A.dylib 0x90a54380 objc_msgSend + 16
1 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x9080fdb2 _CFStringAppendFormatAndArgumentsAux + 28
2 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x9080fc8c _CFStringCreateWithFormatAndArgumentsAux + 122
3 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x9080fbdb CFStringCreateWithFormat + 49
4 com.elgato.eyetv 0x000f2bd9 operator+(TCFString const&, TCFString const&) + 163
5 com.elgato.eyetv 0x004d53d7 TCFString::operator+=(TCFString const&) + 33
6 com.elgato.eyetv 0x0008e761 EyeTVRecording::GetDisplayTitle() const + 107
7 com.elgato.eyetv 0x0008ec78 EyeTVRecording::WriteXML() const + 1158
8 com.elgato.eyetv 0x000cc7fb EyeTVDiskRepository::WriteXMLRepositoryItem(EyeTVXMLReposito ryItem&) + 33
9 com.elgato.eyetv 0x0008c7df EyeTVRepository::WriteRecording(EyeTVRecording&) + 185
10 com.elgato.eyetv 0x0007e528 EyeTVProgramManager::WriteProgramRecordingsToRepository(EyeT VProgram*) + 128
11 com.elgato.eyetv 0x0007e5f0 EyeTVProgramManager::WriteProgramsToRepository() + 50
12 com.elgato.eyetv 0x00084cfa EyeTVProgramManager::CloseAllRepositories() + 20
13 com.elgato.eyetv 0x00084ee2 EyeTVProgramManager::~EyeTVProgramManager [in-charge]() + 74
14 com.elgato.eyetv 0x00003553 cxa_atexit_wrapper + 115

My system is not connected to a TV (I play recordings via a Zensonic Z500). I have found no way to predict when a recording is going to hang. I record about 10 to 15 each week (digital OTA only) and I think I've had this happen 3 times in the last 2 weeks.

I have had only 2 zero-second recordings in the last few months.

I'm planning to submit this stuff to ElGato. Perhaps if others are experiencing the same, you could lend some weight with them...

Craig

I get that symptom as well, Craig. Recordings sometimes start fine, but just keep going until I stop them. (With 320 GBs I usually notice before my drive gets filled up.)

In all of these cases, if a recording is occurring, even if EyeTV has hung, if I force quit and restart the recording shows up just fine.

I would report all of these symptoms to ElGato, but I just don't know how to describe it all coherently.

Yes, I was seeing the same issue (filling the harddrive and being hung). None of these issues have I experienced reverting back to 2.3.1

Kevin

Just wondering if the included software from Elgato has a sort of signal strength meter available for those of us that might want to optimize the antenna pointing of our OTA antenna.. Thx!

Just wondering if the included software from Elgato has a sort of signal strength meter available for those of us that might want to optimize the antenna pointing of our OTA antenna.. Thx!

Yes it does, and I used it to align my HD antenna in the attic.

Ooohh.. Ahhh.. I might have to go down to my local ComPUSA to see if they've got one -- How's the current round of software for this by the way? I saw earlier posts (from April) complaining about slow-downs, etc Thx!

Not only that, it can be set to voice announce the signal quality so you can set up your speakers and blast it while in the attic and hear if it is 80 , 90, 100 etc. So you don't even need to see the screen to make it work.

Cool.. Any ideas on whether this hardware device is better or equal to the new Miglia TVMini HD+ that's just come out recently (or about to come out)? I think the only thing it has over the Elgato hardware is that it is able to record the ClearQAM signals, which for me is a don't-care feature since I don't do cable. Anyway, just thought I'd ask.. I checked online w/ CompUSA and both devices are sold out or unavailable.. I might have to look a bit harder to find one locally.. Perhaps my local Fry's carries one..

Not only that, it can be set to voice announce the signal quality so you can set up your speakers and blast it while in the attic and hear if it is 80 , 90, 100 etc. So you don't even need to see the screen to make it work.
Cool. For those of us with babies, you could use a baby monitor so you wouldn't have to blast the speakers.

ft

I think the latest builds of EyeTV have significantly improved from when this thread initially began. ElGato has listened to a lot of the complaints and issues, especially with multiple tuners connected to the same mac, and they have addressed most of them. There are still a number of things I would like to see, such as better full-screen menu and PIP support, as well as a 16:10 crop option, but for the most part the software is very good at doing what it sets out to do. And if you have an iPod or aTV, the export capabilities can come in really handy.

Thanks for the info.. Is it safe to assume that my recently acquired Powerbook 1.67Ghz (17") will be somewhat taxed (~50% CPU utilization) when doing playback from a local drive for most media content or is it not going to be that bad? Just curious mostly...

My G5 and MBP C2D can handle playback fine of all DTV formats without issue. My Dual G4 w/ 128MB GeForce Ti can sometimes struggle with 1080i though, but if I dedicate all resources to EyeTV, then playback is usually OK. I do remember testing 1080i and 720p playback with VLC (which has a faster MPEG2 decoder than EyeTV) and EyeTV on a 12" 1.33GHz Powerbook and 1.5GHz mac mini. On both systems, 1080i playback wasn't what I would call a watchable experience. 720p was better, but it still didn't always play back at 60fps, more like 50-55fps most of the time.

Where that leaves you? Its hard for me to say. I know the Intel macs, even the ones without a dedicated graphics card, can play DTV formats fine. And I always used to say, to handle DTV with a G4 mac, you needed at least 128MB VRAM graphics, so your book would probably be able to handle it.

Hmm.. Interesting.. when doing playback, can you resize the window down to a smaller size to somewhat combat the frame rate issue or is it not going to help.. I've occasionally ran across videos that didn't play too well full-sized w/ VLC but shrinking the viewing window made an improvement and the video was more watchable..