I scoured this board for weeks before I bought the Mits DLP 52 and it was because of all of you users and your comments that helped me understand this was probably the best buy, so thanks.

So I have it in my house now, no real problems with tilting, rainbow or the glare screen... But I am having some major PQ issues. Obviously the HD channels look great, wtih the exception of ESPN HD. IT looks great, but I get a jittery picture sometimes followed by loss of audio sync. THe real problem is that analog channgels that used to look pretty good on my 42 inch, now are horrible. Plus the local channels that I get with directtv are way way worse than it was.

I have the samsung HD directtv reciever and using component cables. Does anyone have any idea what could be going on? At this point, because you only get about 10 HD channels, I am thinking about taking the TV back and getting back to NON-HD receivers and at least get a good solid PQ for all channels. I welcome any suggestions.

Originally posted by bowers32
I scoured this board for weeks before I bought the Mits DLP 52 and it was because of all of you users and your comments that helped me understand this was probably the best buy, so thanks.

So I have it in my house now, no real problems with tilting, rainbow or the glare screen... But I am having some major PQ issues. Obviously the HD channels look great, wtih the exception of ESPN HD. IT looks great, but I get a jittery picture sometimes followed by loss of audio sync. THe real problem is that analog channgels that used to look pretty good on my 42 inch, now are horrible. Plus the local channels that I get with directtv are way way worse than it was.

I have the samsung HD directtv reciever and using component cables. Does anyone have any idea what could be going on? At this point, because you only get about 10 HD channels, I am thinking about taking the TV back and getting back to NON-HD receivers and at least get a good solid PQ for all channels. I welcome any suggestions.

I am watching a Dish 811 receiver via Svideo connection through a Series 2 tivo, and I am very happy with my SD channels. I have the 62525, and sit about 15' away from the screen. I think the distance is critical - there have been times when I have been right in front of the TV, and it looks very bad.

You might try an svid connection (perhaps the upconversion that the DTV box is not very good)? You could also try turning off Definedge, and play with the color settings, contrast, and brightness.

There is no way I would want to go back to my old 53" Sony RPTV (non-HD CRT).

Good luck.

I have a problem with my Mits 52525 and a Bose 321 AVR. I have a CC and receiving analog, digital and HD channels using the ob-board tuner. When I connect the TV's audio out to the receiver's audio in using the RCA & digital audio cable, I get audio ouput from the HD & digital channels, but no audio on analog channels. When I discconnect the digital audio cable and just have the RCA cables connected, I get audio from all the channels. I prefer using the digital audio cable because the digital channels have Dolby Digital 2.0 audio and many of the HD channels are Dolby Digital 5.1. Does anyone know how I can get get the RCA and digital audio cable to work together? BTW, the Bose displays the analog audio as a "PCM" signal. Any ideas?

BTW, if I just use the RCA cables from Mits to Bose, is the signal still Dolby encoded?

TIA....JL

The Mits TV will NOT create a digital audio stream from an analog source. That is why you get no audio on the digital audio output when you are tuned to an analog TV station. The manual mentions this on page 22. There it tells you to hook up BOTH - the L/R analog and the digital audio cable.

This digital/analog creates a little problem. Your receiver must have the ability to switch between two inputs for the same device - one for digital PCM bitstream, the other for analog. In Netcommand, you teach the system how to switch your A/V receiver between the two inputs. The example is on page 40 of the manual, bottom right side and in the "hints" section on the same page.

If your receiver does not have this capability, you might be able to work around it. Connect the analog to one input of your receiver, and the digital to another input. Then learn the remote key that selects each input on the two selections on page 40 called "Analog to Digital" and "Digital to Analog". Just relearn the receiver input selection on these two NetCommand items. This should cause the Mits to send the IR code to your receiver to switch the receiver input based on the type of signal the tuner is receiving.

Hope that makes sense, it looks confusing after I reread it ;)

Originally posted by SRFast
BTW, the Bose displays the analog audio as a "PCM" signal. Any ideas? Either the BOSE is wrong, or you saw the "PCM" displayed while a digital channel was tuned in.
BTW, if I just use the RCA cables from Mits to Bose, is the signal still Dolby encoded? If you are referring to the audio2 (or audio/video1) L/R outputs on the Mits, it might have analog Dolby Pro Logic encoded - if its coming from the source. Those outputs are not Dolby Digital encoded. Only the output labelled "digital audio output" can carry Dolby Digital.

Originally posted by bowers32
.... But I am having some major PQ issues. Obviously the HD channels look great, wtih the exception of ESPN HD. IT looks great, but I get a jittery picture sometimes followed by loss of audio sync. THe real problem is that analog channgels that used to look pretty good on my 42 inch, now are horrible. Plus the local channels that I get with directtv are way way worse than it was.

I have the samsung HD directtv reciever and using component cables. Does anyone have any idea what could be going on? At this point, because you only get about 10 HD channels, I am thinking about taking the TV back and getting back to NON-HD receivers and at least get a good solid PQ for all channels. I welcome any suggestions. Welcome to the jungle, rookie :)

It sounds to me like you've been bitten by the "SD looks crappy on HDTV television" phenomenon. What you see is lots of graininess. Unfortunately, your options are limited. You can minimize the problem, but that's about it. Especially with any fixed pixel display, you are not going to get SD looking as good as it did on your old standard definition TV.

As Spiff72 noted, do the following to minimize it:
- Turn off DefinEdge
- Set Video Noise to Reduction
- Set Contrast to 31 or less
- Set Brightness to 46 or higher
- Set sharpness to 0
- Stay at least 9 feet away from it.

Also, set your Samsung box to pass incoming signals at their native resolution, don't let it attempt to upscale to 720p or 1080i.

One final thought... If you want to soften up the picture even further, run a RG6 coax cable from the satellite box RF output to your TV ANT2 input. When viewing standard definition broadcasts, select the ANT2 input on the TV, and tune the TV to channel 3. You might like the looks of that signal better for standard definition channels. Just switch back to the component inputs when you watch a HD broadcast.

I've made a few posts about this issue in this thread & the DVB318 FAQ's thread, as have others. This DVD player does not like DVI -> HDMI conversion cables. If hooked up to one, it freezes and you need to unplug it to get it to function again. You need to use the component cables instead. End of story.

Reyard: Very disappointing news about the DVB318. I bought my Mits 62725 at Good Guys partly because they were offering the DVB318 free with any big screen purchase. My DVB318 hasn't arrived yet, but I was reallly looking forward to the PQ improvement. Since my unit will be a new build, I guess it will have the new firmware that screws up upconversion over component. Maybe I'll pay an extra $100 and get the new Sony instead, if they'll let me.

There is a new 975 Sony coming out in the next few weeks. It will have HDMI upconversion and SACD capability. I think it will have 108mhz D/A converter also.
Panny is coming out with the S97 soon.

If you use DVI/HDMI, the majority of the video image processing will be done in the player, not in the TV. Many of the recent DVD players using the Faroudja chip have macroblocking artifacts. Lots of chatter about that over in the DVD player forum.

Even if I didn't think the Mits was the best overall DLP, I would have bought it because it is the only one with a protective screen. My first day of ownership validated this.

Had relatives over for a first night viewing. While I was setting up the tv, my 3 year old was upset I was ignoring him and smacked the screen! Later in the evening, a 2 year old smeared her ice cream covered hands over the screen. Later yet, a six year old lost control of a toy and it flew into the screen.

I took this all in stride, but with any other DLP I would have had a cow!

I just completed a big move into a new house with my Mits 62525. That thing was a beast. Four people carried it with "relative" ease and I put it (face up) on a mattress and a memory foam mattress topper in the back of a Ryder Truck. During the loading into the truck, we all put it down to rest our hands and get a better grip; one corner went down very hard and made me wince.
[ I bet if I did that with a Sammy DLP it probably would have exploded.... lol ]

However, once it was back in my new house, all was good, and it looks great. Whew!

long live Mits!

Chas.

Originally posted by 2left
Even if I didn't think the Mits was the best overall DLP, I would have bought it because it is the only one with a protective screen. My first day of ownership validated this.

Had relatives over for a first night viewing. While I was setting up the tv, my 3 year old was upset I was ignoring him and smacked the screen! Later in the evening, a 2 year old smeared her ice cream covered hands over the screen. Later yet, a six year old lost control of a toy and it flew into the screen.

I took this all in stride, but with any other DLP I would have had a cow!

I've had to make the HT area of the basement a No-Fly Zone (i.e., no airborne toys). My 2 and 3 year old boys have been pretty good around it so far, but I'm keeping the 2 year old under extra surveillance. He's like Mt. St. Helens and could blow anytime.

Originally posted by 2left
with any other DLP I would have had a cow!

... and a busted screen on a $4000 TV :eek: :eek:

HTBruceM:
Thanks for your input regarding my digital audio situation. I had an idea of what the problem was, but you confirmed it. I've put the digital audio into the "TV" input and the analog L/R into the "AUX" input, but switching it back and is an inconvenience. I will try to program the Net Command to do it. I am wondering why there are still analog channels on TWC.

If I can't get it to work, what is your opinion of using an analog to digital converter? Any pros/cons come to mind? Here is one I found:
http://www.lastar.net/product.asp?cat_id=7702&sku=28732

TIA...JL

Originally posted by HTBruceM
[B]The Mits TV will NOT create a digital audio stream from an analog source. That is why you get no audio on the digital audio output when you are tuned to an analog TV station. The manual mentions this on page 22. There it tells you to hook up BOTH - the L/R analog and the digital audio cable.



I have been trying to figure this out, too. I just got my 62725 Friday and have not been able to get any TV (non-DVD) signal out through the digital out on the Mits. That makes me wonder if it is a source issue. Since there is no digital sound input (other than the HDMI), does the digital signal in have to come through the HDMI or regular coax (as in 'straight from the wall')? I am running component cables from my Motorola 6208 to the TV, and while it has SPDIF and optical out, there is no input for those on the TV (unless I missed something, big time). As far as I can tell, my only choice to run sound through the TV is RCA out. I was watching the GB/NY football game on Fox yesterday via the STB, broadcast in 720P and DD 5.1, and got nothing through the digital out. That's not surprising, though, really, given the connectivity stuff I mentioned above. I wish I would have thought to check my regular cable feed to see how that worked....even though I wouldn't have Hi Def that way, it would have provided more info. I guess this might be one big advantage of having the Cable Card, correct?

Also, add me to the folks disappointed in the SD quality. I thought I had myself prepared for it, but apparently I was wrong. I did some tweaking to try and make it better, but it didn't seem to make that much difference...I will give the settings posted in this thread a try, however. I have a couple of ReplayTVs and pretty much totally rely on them....I am very spoiled to watching what I want when I want, and enjoy being able to watch a game in realtime while other things of interest are recorded. I have tried both Svid and component out from the RTVs to the TV, and both are pretty disappointing. Further, my non-HD stuff (both analog AND digital) off the cable is pretty bad, too. I've have runs both straight into the TV, and through the STB. I was watching some of my recorded stuff through split-screen mode yesterday, just to get the resolution to the point to make it more watchable. I can record some Hi-def stuff via the Motorola box, but as we all know, the features and flexibility of the Motorola pales in comparison to the Replays...not to mention the capacity.

Would satellite be significantly better? I don't mind making the change if it would be. Would the recording quality on the RTVs be improved enough via SAT to make them more watchable, as well? Should I consider moving to the 52725 to have the same number of pixels in a smaller space? Should I just go back to the ol' direct view CRT for awhile until broadcast technology catches up? Or a CRT RPTV? Should I stop asking questions??? ;)

Anyway, any thoughts would be appreciated....

Thanks,
Randy

Originally posted by IFLYSWA
Would satellite be significantly better? I don't mind making the change if it would be. Would the recording quality on the RTVs be improved enough via SAT to make them more watchable, as well? Should I consider moving to the 52725 to have the same number of pixels in a smaller space? Should I just go back to the ol' direct view CRT for awhile until broadcast technology catches up? Or a CRT RPTV? Should I stop asking questions??? ;)
Anyway, any thoughts would be appreciated....
Well, here is where I would start looking if I were you. I would definitely be checking into the RF signal strength you have. Sounds like you must have lots of splitters in your RF. I count at least a 4-way split just between your two ReplayTVs, STB, and TV. That's in addition to whatever splits there are in the house wiring before you get to the home theater area. You might consider boosting the signal where it first comes in to your house to overcome the long cable runs and multiple splitters. You need to amplify AHEAD of the splitters, preferably at the point where the cable enters your house.

This made a big difference at my house. In my case, they used some not-so-good RG6 throughout the 2 story house when it was built, and I'm only 6 miles from the broadcast antennas. As a result, I get some "ingress" into my RG6 house wiring. Best I can do in this case is boost the signal level to improve the S/N ratio. I even did an experiment; I put a variable attenuator on the RG6 coax, just to get an idea of when my signal begins to degrade. If I can attenuate quite a bit before seeing any noticeable improvement, then my signal level is pretty good. However, if I see degradation everywhere on the attenuator dial, I'm in trouble. It was improved significantly with the RF amplifier. BTW, it needs to be two-way to support my cable modem and the cable set-top box.

As for moving to a smaller TV... IMHO, the smaller the TV, the less graininess you will have on SD. That is generally true across the board. You might even consider something in the 40" range if it really bothers you and your viewing distance is relatively close (i.e. less than 8 feet or so).

And yes, you will get more incremental improvement in SD picture quality with CRT, but remember there are other downsides with CRT (burn in, bigger, heavier, etc).

Originally posted by SRFast
If I can't get it to work, what is your opinion of using an analog to digital converter? Any pros/cons come to mind? Here is one I found:
http://www.lastar.net/product.asp?cat_id=7702&sku=28732
TIA...JL Looks like this will probably work for you. Since you're building a PCM digital bitstream from an analog source, don't expect stellar quality... But then again, the source won't be that good to begin with. The downside I could think of would be analog noise being digitized and might be more noticeable. Since it's relatively cheap, give it a try. Let us know here if you do. Other people are probably in the same boat.

Is the Mits NetCommand feature able to learn commands from systems using IR based remote controls? I've been able to control some of the devices using preloaded commands and the IR emitters, but I need some other commands "learned." Is this possible?

TIA....JL

Originally posted by SRFast
Is the Mits NetCommand feature able to learn commands from systems using IR based remote controls? I've been able to control some of the devices using preloaded commands and the IR emitters, but I need some other commands "learned." Is this possible? TIA....JL Sure, but it's not like you can program any key you want like you could with a good learning remote. NetCommand has its own predefined "functions" for various types of devices. Within those known functions, you can learn from your existing IR remotes. When you select "other" as your device in NetCommand, you are given the opportunity to learn IR codes from your existing devices.

For example, when you select "other" as your A/V receiver, Netcommand defines up to 7 (I think) device inputs in it's generic A/V receiver. Yours might have 4 or it might have a dozen. You can learn up to 7 of them into NetCommand. If you have more than that, you can create another A/V receiver and learn the remaining ones there. You will then have two A/V receivers to select from in the device menu on the Mits.

Another example... Your real A/V receiver remote might have some other keys that the Mits is not setup to handle. You can't really create these in Netcommand if they don't map to some function they have predefined for A/V receivers.

SRFast... yes, netcommand can learn IR commands from other components.

During device setup select "other", this will allow you to select the "learn" option... then go into the learn screen and learn the remote commands (be sure and test them out). Then make sure you've got the IR emitters pointing at the IR eye on the device you won't to control. That should do it.

Heads-up on CableCard:

I had it installed on a Friday. Over the weekend, I could not access alot of digital channels - and some of the HD channels would come and go. Had Comcast back out this morning and we did a reset on the Mits and now everything works fine.

Originally posted by BigAl
SRFast... yes, netcommand can learn IR commands from other components.

During device setup select "other", this will allow you to select the "learn" option... then go into the learn screen and learn the remote commands (be sure and test them out). Then make sure you've got the IR emitters pointing at the IR eye on the device you won't to control. That should do it.

HTBruceM & BigAl:
Thanks for your input and patience regarding my inquiries. Because most of the cable channels are digital, I am keeping the digital audio as the primary audio source. The only thing I need to do now is to train the NetCommand to switch the AVR between TV (digital audio feed) and AUX (analog audio feed).

I have one dumb question: Is the Mits remote IR or RF?

TIA....JL

Originally posted by HTBruceM
Well, here is where I would start looking if I were you. I would definitely be checking into the RF signal strength you have. Sounds like you must have lots of splitters in your RF. I count at least a 4-way split just between your two ReplayTVs, STB, and TV. That's in addition to whatever splits there are in the house wiring before you get to the home theater area. You might consider boosting the signal where it first comes in to your house to overcome the long cable runs and multiple splitters. You need to amplify AHEAD of the splitters, preferably at the point where the cable enters your house.


Thanks for the reply. I am actually running a 4 way amp/splitter in hopes of keeping this from being an issue. It is supposed to amplify up to 8db for each of the 4 outputs, and I am terminating the unused line (I use another feed straight out of the wall in addition to the one being split). I might still need to get Comcast out for a check.


This made a big difference at my house. In my case, they used some not-so-good RG6 throughout the 2 story house when it was built, and I'm only 6 miles from the broadcast antennas. As a result, I get some "ingress" into my RG6 house wiring. Best I can do in this case is boost the signal level to improve the S/N ratio. I even did an experiment; I put a variable attenuator on the RG6 coax, just to get an idea of when my signal begins to degrade. If I can attenuate quite a bit before seeing any noticeable improvement, then my signal level is pretty good. However, if I see degradation everywhere on the attenuator dial, I'm in trouble. It was improved significantly with the RF amplifier. BTW, it needs to be two-way to support my cable modem and the cable set-top box.


I am in an apartment, so my options are limited with regard to wiring and such.


As for moving to a smaller TV... IMHO, the smaller the TV, the less graininess you will have on SD. That is generally true across the board. You might even consider something in the 40" range if it really bothers you and your viewing distance is relatively close (i.e. less than 8 feet or so).

And yes, you will get more incremental improvement in SD picture quality with CRT, but remember there are other downsides with CRT (burn in, bigger, heavier, etc).

Stands to reason....I just don't want to spend a boatload of money for a relatively small screen. My viewing distance is around 12', or a little better. And I totally agree about the downsides of the CRT....one of the biggest in my mind is the lateral viewing angle.

I absolutely love the Mits for HD, and I'm sure I'll feel the same for Xbox once I get that going. I just want to make sure that I don't get too caught up in that and end up short-changing myself on the stuff I do normally, you know?

Thanks again,
Randy

SRFast,

To answer your dumb question (your words not mine), its an IR remote.

Maybe someday soon (if Hollywood doesn't stifle the electronics industry creativity..) we will all have pure digital channels, most in HD, and all recordable and archiveable via some convenient method. We're getting close, but I don't quite see the finish line yet...

i am right there with you randy...
i just got my jvc hd-ila - which is going back - another long story...
my watching habits revolve soley around tivo which doesnt do hd unless with direct tv and hd content is still relatively small over either cable or satelite which begs the question why am i paying 4k for a tv that only really shows off under hd or dvd playback?
i can get a crt for less than half the price and really increase my sd tivo and general sd playback and still get a damn good hd picture when i happen to be around during its broadcast....

i am really starting to wonder if its better to let the others adopt these new technologies and pay the r&d budget of mitsubishi while i enjoy whats been proven and reliable....
i mean who really cares if a tv weighs 500lbs or 50 lbs once its in place is stays there for years on end assuming your not a nomad.....
and depth? come on - the furniture mfgs have 10x more offerings around your standard mammoth crt big screens and for less money than the new designs that have to have undercabinets to hold the unit.....

i have had a crt hitachi for 8 years and played xbox on it for the last 4 years without a bit of burn in so i dont buy that arguement....

i do know the crts will be replaced and are an older technology, but there just doesnt seem to be enough content out there to make these new technologies really shine.... at least not enough to justify their $$...

oh well thats my 2 cents.... after all i did buy the jvc hd-ila how bright can i be?

After weeks of scanning all the DLP forums I have been scared off the technology all together.

The same with all the other non-CRT types.

All the horror stories have totally and completely cooled my jets.
I am now officially out of the market for a new TV...Till the next big thing anyway.

Just going to keep my trusty old 40" Sony HD CRT and buy a new Ham Radio instead (G)

I'll check back from time to time to see whats new...

I've tried to program the Mits NetCommand to use some of the Bose remote commands but the Bose 321 commands appear to be the ones that aren't acceptable to the NetCommand :( . I guess I will be using multiple remotes or purchasing a universal remote.

Thanks for all your help....JL

Originally posted by k2koq
After weeks of scanning all the DLP forums I have been scared off the technology all together.

The same with all the other non-CRT types.

All the horror stories have totally and completely cooled my jets.
I am now officially out of the market for a new TV...Till the next big thing anyway.

Just going to keep my trusty old 40" Sony HD CRT and buy a new Ham Radio instead (G)

I'll check back from time to time to see whats new...

I am sorry to hear that - there is no way I would get rid of my Mits! I just wonder how many "happy ending stories" are floating around out there, and that never get posted here. It always seems that the bad outnumbers the good in these forums, since the ones with the bad stories are looking for help. No need to look for help when you are happy (but you can always brag!).

To each his own I guess...

Good luck.

How do you guys calibrate your non-dvd signal? Avia for DVD but the settings does not apply to my cable signal because I see red push.

Originally posted by SRFast
I've tried to program the Mits NetCommand to use some of the Bose remote commands but the Bose 321 commands appear to be the ones that aren't acceptable to the NetCommand :( . I guess I will be using multiple remotes or purchasing a universal remote.

Thanks for all your help....JL

This may be a dumb question, but did you happen to try the codes more than once when you were trying to teach netcommand? I find that for my TiVo codes I had to do them more than once sometimes, or it worked better to wait for a couple seconds after the command starts blinking in anticipation of the new code it is going to learn.

Just a thought...

Hey Mits owners,

I have a thread in the HTPC forum that asks a question about powerstrip and getting a 1:1 pixel mapping with no overscan. If anyone has figured out how to do this, please follow this link and share your results!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=454127

Thanks,
Jeff

SRFast... the mits remote is IR.

If you have a Bose with an RF remote Netcommand will not be able to learn those commands (nor will any universal remote). Bluedo.com had some kind of Bose RF system so you could use a bose system with a universal remote... this is the only solution I've heard of for the Bose RF remotes.

spiff72

Regarding the jittery effect you are seeing.....is this the same effect I see moving across my screen left to right like a wave when I adjust the Fine Detail setting in the Video Menu? I was hoping someone could explain exactly what I am seeing here. Because of this I'm not able to get a perfectly clear picture across the entire screen.

Also, I see you are connected via the VGA port. I don't know if this Fine Detail adjustment is available over the HDMI port. It would be nice to hear from folks who have their PC hooked up over HDMI whether they are seeing the same thing.

UMR was supposed to tweak a Mits and let us know the outcome. Have I missed it by chance?

Originally posted by pjr
UMR was supposed to tweak a Mits and let us know the outcome. Have I missed it by chance?

I am still waiting. I have not heard back from the fellow who had one on order. Does anyone else have one in the area that they want tweaked?

My unit was delayed, then delayed again. Now I have a problem with the cable and cant get a timewarner guy out to fix it until Thursday morning. The last 2 weeks waiting for it has seemed like months.

Originally posted by spiff72
This may be a dumb question, but did you happen to try the codes more than once when you were trying to teach netcommand? I find that for my TiVo codes I had to do them more than once sometimes, or it worked better to wait for a couple seconds after the command starts blinking in anticipation of the new code it is going to learn.

Just a thought...

Spiff72:
I tried numerous times to get this to work, but to no avail. Using the NetCommand's reprogrammed codes, I am able to do the following on the Bose:
Audio Input: Power. volume & mute
DVD: Power, play, stop, pause, ffwd & rewind

The Bose doesn't automatically switch between digital & analog audio from the CableCard so I was trying to "teach" NetCommand to toggle between the input sources. I have the digitial audio on "TV" and analog stereo on "AUX". I guess the Bose's input source commands are not supported by NetCommand.

BTW, I purchased a universal remote to handle all my AV stuff. This is what I got: http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=VYBJvon5e0hJssibxkVDtcb1ozA2pPBKUAY=?ProductSKU=RM AV3100&Dept=acc&CategoryName=acc_Remotes . It cost me $95.00, but as long as it does the job, it is money well spent.

Thanks again for all the input everyone provided....JL

Originally posted by delar
spiff72

Regarding the jittery effect you are seeing.....is this the same effect I see moving across my screen left to right like a wave when I adjust the Fine Detail setting in the Video Menu? I was hoping someone could explain exactly what I am seeing here. Because of this I'm not able to get a perfectly clear picture across the entire screen.

Also, I see you are connected via the VGA port. I don't know if this Fine Detail adjustment is available over the HDMI port. It would be nice to hear from folks who have their PC hooked up over HDMI whether they are seeing the same thing.

I haven't actually seen the Fine Detail adjustment. Is it something you only see when you are looking at the PC input via VGA connection?

I haven't adjusted it before, as a result of not knowing about it!

I just figured the jitter was the result of the TV trying to display an interpolated resolution (that isn't a 1:1 pixel ratio)...

I need to play with it a bit more and see if I can make it work...

Thanks,
Jeff

I finally sat down last night and spent some time tweaking powerstrip and was able to get a 1:1 mapping with no overscan by using a slightly smaller custom resolution. For anyone interested the timings can be found here.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4453035#post4453035

I thought i'd stick a link to it from here to keep the setup / tweaking info collected here in this thread.

I have noticed that on SD channels, about every 10 to 20 seconds I get a quick "slash" in my picture. It's about 6 to 8 inches long, multi-colored, horizontal, and lasts only a split second. It looks like someone took a knife to my screen and cut a slash, revealing the electrical signals behind.

I have not had my signal tested recently, but when I did it was fine. Any thoughts on what it could be besides a weak signal?

Originally posted by spiff72
I haven't actually seen the Fine Detail adjustment. Is it something you only see when you are looking at the PC input via VGA connection?

Yes. When viewing PC via VGA hit the video key and toggle until you see the Fine Detail adjustment. Adjust this setting from one extreme to the other and note the effect, if any, on you screen.

Originally posted by delar
Yes. When viewing PC via VGA hit the video key and toggle until you see the Fine Detail adjustment. Adjust this setting from one extreme to the other and note the effect, if any, on you screen.


OK - I will try it tonight before I try the new resolution.

2left

That's how my rainbows started !!

dre: I hope its not rainbows. It doesn't happen when I move my eyes, and it doesn't look like reflictive like a rainbow. More like a lightning bolt.

Originally posted by 2left
dre: I hope its not rainbows. It doesn't happen when I move my eyes, and it doesn't look like reflictive like a rainbow. More like a lightning bolt.

While viewing SD on my 52725, I see some similar flashes. It reminds me a little of the screen door effect I kept seeing on RP LCD televisions, but not nearly as pronounced. I don't see it on OTA HD programs so I'm just assuming it's from the SD signal. I've never really seen a rainbow to know if that's what I'm seeing, either.

Originally posted by delar
Yes. When viewing PC via VGA hit the video key and toggle until you see the Fine Detail adjustment. Adjust this setting from one extreme to the other and note the effect, if any, on you screen.

OK - yes it does the same thing for me - it looks like it makes the text jittery like it was before I tried the timings that MadsenD posted in the HTPC thread I started. I changed my resolution before I tried the fine tuning, then went back to my original timing and tried the fine detail and it just shifts the jittery area around on the screen.

When i do it with the good timing i am using now, it goes from perfect text to bad text (screenwide) - it looks to me that it in tweaking the internal timing of the TV....

I didn't realize that there was a horizontal and vertical position menu in there too!

Thanks
Jeff

Still waiting to hear confirmation from GG on my WD-62825's preorder firm arrival, was supposed to be 10/10 which is hard to believe.

I have DirecTV and I understand I can not use the Internal PVR Hard Disc Recorder nor the TV Guide On Screen Feature of the 825 with DirecTV.

If this is the case I might as well settle for the 725 at lesser cost and no further waiting ? Please help me out on this. Many thanks guys.

Anyone know if it's possible to rename the Ant-1 or Ant-2 inputs in the on-screen menus? I renamed input-1 to "directv" - but couldn't figure out how to rename ant-1 > "hdtv"

Part of the appeal of the integrated PVR is its ability to record HD broadcasts, but you will probably have to use the Mits tuner for that. This feature is targeted primarily at CATV and over-the-air antenna users. There is no way they will enable recording from the HDMI or component inputs.

You might be able to record on the PVR using either composite or SVIDEO inputs on the TV, if you connect using those outputs on your DirecTV box. You could also probably connect the DirecTV box via an RF connection to your TV and tell the PVR to record from channel 3. Possibly you might be able to program NetCommand to manipulate your DirecTV box channels using the infrared emitters. Either method will be non-optimal as far as recording image quality.

If your DirecTV box has an active firewire output, you might have some hope for high quality recording on the Mits PVR. But I doubt your DirecTV box has firewire; even if it did, getting the firewire stuff to work correctly can be a challenge - based on what I've been hearing in these forums.

Originally posted by rmeredith
Anyone know if it's possible to rename the Ant-1 or Ant-2 inputs in the on-screen menus? I renamed input-1 to "directv" - but couldn't figure out how to rename ant-1 > "hdtv" Been there, but can't find it myself. I don't think you can do it.

I haven't found a way to rename the antenna inputs... you can hookup a device using RF (i.e. a vcr coming on antenna channel 3) by specifying the rf input during device setup. You could name this device whatever you want.

The 825 will not contain a HD video encoder so, no, it will not be able to compress a component or HDMI signal. The only consumer devices I know of that are able to do this are the JVC HD camcorder and the yet to be released Sony HD camcorder... both are $3000+. I'm guessing this may work it's way into PVR's eventually if the chipsets/software get cheaper and they can work out something with hollywood on copy protection stuff. But I'm sure it's a ways out.

No directv reciever has a firewire output so there is no way to archive HD material from a directv reciever (unless you do some hacking of some of the old boxes).

Originally posted by spiff72
I am sorry to hear that - there is no way I would get rid of my Mits! I just wonder how many "happy ending stories" are floating around out there, and that never get posted here. It always seems that the bad outnumbers the good in these forums, since the ones with the bad stories are looking for help. No need to look for help when you are happy (but you can always brag!).

To each his own I guess...

Good luck.

Good point. Truth is, I love this forum do to how ANAL everyone here is about PQ and functionality. I never thought the glare screen on my Sony HS-10 61 inch was a problem until I read it was here. We are surely, Superusers, and not your average joe looking for quality tv's. This group demands perfection and finds way to get it!!

Time

Originally posted by time4akshun
Good point. Truth is, I love this forum do to how ANAL everyone here is about PQ and functionality. I never thought the glare screen on my Sony HS-10 61 inch was a problem until I read it was here. We are surely, Superusers, and not your average joe looking for quality tv's. This group demands perfection and finds way to get it!!

Time

Agreed - there are folks in here who are ready to return their TV because they think there is one dead pixel! I walked past my TV and saw what I thought was a dead pixel too, but if I wiggle the set, the dead pixel moves around to different adjacent pixels. I assume that it is a bit of dust inside, but I don't really care, since I can't see it unless I am within 2 feet of the screen!

There is nothing wrong with being a perfectionist though...I spent hours trying to get the timing on Powerstrip just right with my TV/PC connection, and thanks to MadsenD, it looks great!

Anyway, I digress, (I am just excited about how good the PC connection looks) :D

Thanks,
Jeff

Originally posted by spiff72
Agreed - there are folks in here who are ready to return their TV because they think there is one dead pixel! I walked past my TV and saw what I thought was a dead pixel too, but if I wiggle the set, the dead pixel moves around to different adjacent pixels. I assume that it is a bit of dust inside, but I don't really care, since I can't see it unless I am within 2 feet of the screen!

Thanks,
Jeff

I had the same problem too. I talked to my mitsu service guy at work and all you have to do is take the screen off (about 10 screws). I got a can of compressed air and blew off the first small mirror. DO NOT touch any of the mirrors. This is very easy problem to fix. Took me about 15 min (screws take the longest)

Thanks Kevin Barduca (A-1)

Yeah..OK...I admit I HAD thought about returning for "One dead pixel", but everything else is OK...so Im not. Might have to try the screen removal.

On another note, it seems the 725's are coming with newer Netcommand rev's...anybody with the 525 got new software, after the CC firmware fix?? just curious.

Just got my 525 replaced with a 725....

http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4460470#post4460470

Firmware rev on the 725 is at .03... my 525 was at .02....

I also wonder if firmware upgrades available to 725 owners will be made available to 525 owners as well. The 725's are being shipped with the .03 revision. Question is, would they ship the .03 FW upgrade to a 525 owner if requested? Anyone want to try?

Originally posted by delar
I also wonder if firmware upgrades available to 725 owners will be made available to 525 owners as well. The 725's are being shipped with the .03 revision. Question is, would they ship the .03 FW upgrade to a 525 owner if requested? Anyone want to try?

I have a 62525 and the .03 firmware. I emailed customer support with a complaint last week regarding the lose of digital channels over time using ANT-1 or ANT-2 and they sent it right out. So far it seems to have helped.

With the gemstar TV guide being absent from the 725, the firmware for both the 725 and 525 should be identical. There is no reason for there to be any difference.

Thanks Rufhausen. I'll try the email route this time and see what they say. Last time I called them for a FW upgrade I had to beg for it. It seems things have changed a bit since then.

UMD_Terp, you're probably right. This would also make it easier for all of us 525 and 725 owners to keep track of the latest FW's.

Originally posted by kbarduca
I had the same problem too. I talked to my mitsu service guy at work and all you have to do is take the screen off (about 10 screws). I got a can of compressed air and blew off the first small mirror. DO NOT touch any of the mirrors. This is very easy problem to fix. Took me about 15 min (screws take the longest)

Thanks Kevin Barduca (A-1)

I also thought I had a failed mirror on my new 52725. Service tech just left. What I thought was a failed mirror wasn't. When he took the front screen off, we found a big piece of dirt that most probably had been left there during manufacturing on the big mirror in the back of the set. After cleaning the mirror of the dirty and some other smudges, it works perfectly.
The tech commented that this was one of the easier sets to service. He said in most others sets you have to replace the whole top. He accessed the insides by removing a panel on the bottom behind the grill and then removed the screen by removing all the screws around the top in the back and then severeal underneath the screen in the front.

Thank you all for your input so far on the 825 vs 725 series. I am still looking at my navel on this.

The spec sheet shows that the 725 has an "Anti-glare Diamond Shield" while the 825 a "High Transmissivity Anti-glare shield". One of the Dealers told me that this means that the 825 shield has superior coating. Don't know what practical affect this has ?

To answer a post question: Preliminary Cabinet Dimensions are:
1) For the WD-52825 :37.2"x49.6"x17.4", 132.4 lbs (HxWxD, LBS)
2) For the WD-62825 :43.7"x58.3"x19.9", 165.5 lbs

GG in Southern Cal told me today that my WD-62825 has been delayed to the end of Oct.

Originally posted by BigAl
The 825 will not contain a HD video encoder so, no, it will not be able to compress a component or HDMI signal. While the 825 will not record HD from a component or HDMI input, it will record HD from the internal tuner. At least that's what the Mits web site says.

Originally posted by delar
Thanks Rufhausen. I'll try the email route this time and see what they say. Last time I called them for a FW upgrade I had to beg for it. It seems things have changed a bit since then.

UMD_Terp, you're probably right. This would also make it easier for all of us 525 and 725 owners to keep track of the latest FW's.

Delar:
Please keep me advised on your experience with .03 firmware. I would like to know if it fixes the SA CC/TWC problems.

Regards....JL

I have noticed that on SD channels, about every 10 to 20 seconds I get a quick "slash" in my picture. It's about 6 to 8 inches long, multi-colored, horizontal, and lasts only a split second. It looks like someone took a knife to my screen and cut a slash, revealing the electrical signals behind.

I guess the culprit was the newly installed RCA signal booster. Things started getting pretty bad. The slashes turned bigger and bigger. There was also intermittent pixelation of 1 foot and larger patches of the screen. Since I removed the signal booster, no problems.

Originally posted by SRFast
Delar:
Please keep me advised on your experience with .03 firmware. I would like to know if it fixes the SA CC/TWC problems.

Regards....JL

with the .03 firmware on my 725... my Motorola cablecard is the same... still can't record to my DVCR from it. I think it is more my cable company's fault... I think their 5c flags are all screwed up.

I recently received and installed the .03 firmware on my 525. I don't have a CC, but i was periodically losing the "free" unencrypted HD channels from Cox (the major networks). This seems to have fixed at least that problem. This is the first upgrade I've received so I can't compare previous versions (had the .01 from the factory).

Originally posted by HTBruceM
While the 825 will not record HD from a component or HDMI input, it will record HD from the internal tuner. At least that's what the Mits web site says.

That's correct... it should also record from an external firewire device, i.e. some of the Motorola cable boxes.

Originally posted by BigAl
That's correct... it should also record from an external firewire device, i.e. some of the Motorola cable boxes. Yeah, in theory it should... It sounds like the firewire "standard" is getting little more than lip service at best - from the cable companies anyway.

I have several questions, some that are pretty basic, and would appreciate feedback from anyone with knowledge.

1. If the Mits is tuned to a cable HD channel, what format is the digital stream that is output through its firewire?

2. I was wondering if a DVD recorder like the JVC DR-M10 can record the signal being output by the Mits firewire. JVC tech support told me it can "definitely" record HD through firewire. Mits tech support told me any DVD recorder or even a firewire enabled VCR will be able to record through the Mits firewire when the Mits is tuned to HDTV, "no problem." This seems counter to what I found on this site.

3. UMD_Terp posted:

I have only gotten my DVCR to work through netcommand... I have a Mitsubishi HD2000U. I have been unable to record anything off the QAM/cablecard tuner as I always get a copy protection error. OTA digital broadcasts record just fine though. The only way I have figured out how to get digital recordings to work is through Netcommand. You will be unable to switch devices if you use netcommand for your recordings... you can however turn the TV off and still have it record.

Does this mean you can't record and watch another input at the same time?

No you can not record and watch another input at the same time if you use Netcommand to record.

Originally posted by 2left
I have several questions, some that are pretty basic, and would appreciate feedback from anyone with knowledge.

1. If the Mits is tuned to a cable HD channel, what format is the digital stream that is output through its firewire?

2. I was wondering if a DVD recorder like the JVC DR-M10 can record the signal being output by the Mits firewire. JVC tech support told me it can "definitely" record HD through firewire. Mits tech support told me any DVD recorder or even a firewire enabled VCR will be able to record through the Mits firewire when the Mits is tuned to HDTV, "no problem." This seems counter to what I found on this site.

3. UMD_Terp posted:



Does this mean you can't record and watch another input at the same time?

Actually you can watch another input and still record the firewire stream, provided you are NOT using netcommand. I have used CapDVHS to record streams from my OTA antenna input. It appears to just record the channel you had last selected. I am able to switch to the PC input, use it to click the record button on the computer, and I can even switch over to a SVideo connection and watch Tivo!

I never thought it would work, but apparently the TV outputs the Firewire stream from either cable or antenna even while you watch one of the non-RF inputs.

So far though, I have had no success recording anything with CapDVHS off from my 2 digital cable channels. The info doesn't populate in the resolution, bitrate, FPS, etc fields, and I get 0 length file. Only antenna works so far.

I will also go out on a limb and say that there is no way that the JVC DVD recorder can record that stream. DVD can only be a max of 480p, and the firewire inputs are set up for DV cameras, not for the mpeg stream that the Mits spits out...

I am of the understanding that the JVC HVCR will work off the 1394 connection to a Mits TV. However, I think the cable companies (Comcast in my area) have probably purposely screwed up any chance you'll be able to record off their box's 1394 connection.

Originally posted by pjr
UMR was supposed to tweak a Mits and let us know the outcome. Have I missed it by chance?

It looks like I'll get a shot at one tonight. It is a 62725. I'll be using a JVC 30K over firewire and component for HD. I will use a Denon DVD-3800 for component and composite video. My sources will be:

DVD.... Star Wars AOTC, Avia, DVE, The Third Man, The Fifth Element SB, Toy Story 1 and Toy Story 2.

HD.... DVE 720p version and U-571.

I should be able to post something early tomorrow or tonight.

I'm looking forward to your results, UMR!

Originally posted by HTBruceM
I'm looking forward to your results, UMR!

Me too. I'm hoping this thing looks as good under normal use as it does in the store.

umr,

I would like to hear your opinion on the possibility that the HDMI input converts the digital signal to analog and back again. Should this be a "deal-breaker". If you can, try to compare an HTPC's vga connection with a DVI connection. Also, please check out 1X1 mapping like Arun Gupta did in this guide (http://www.digiupdate.com/T001_Testing_Digital_Displays.html) , which I'm sure you're well aware of.

I was hoping to be the first to get you to look at the 62725 but I guess someone else beat me to it. My rush to buy this thing has been slightly tempered.

slobbie

Originally posted by slobbie
umr,

I would like to hear your opinion on the possibility that the HDMI input converts the digital signal to analog and back again. Should this be a "deal-breaker". If you can, try to compare an HTPC's vga connection with a DVI connection. Also, please check out 1X1 mapping like Arun Gupta did in this guide (http://www.digiupdate.com/T001_Testing_Digital_Displays.html) , which I'm sure you're well aware of.

I was hoping to be the first to get you to look at the 62725 but I guess someone else beat me to it. My rush to buy this thing has been slightly tempered.

slobbie

Slobbie,

I know I have told you this before, but the VGA port can get a beautiful 1:1 mapping of pixels with minimal overscan thanks to the timings for powerstrip posted by MadsenD. It is a better picture than I ever had on smaller LCD displays and my CRT monitor...

I don't know why you are obsessing over the HDMI of HTPC hookup...would it help if I posted some digtal pics of my desktop from up close (and maybe some from the displaymate demo)? I think you will be pleasantly surprised by how good it looks.

Oh crap - I forgot my mother in law borrowed my digital cam, so I wouldn't be able to post any pics like that til Monday...

I'm running Powerstrip with MadsenD's settings. Guess I can dust off the digital camera and post a few pics if needed.

Originally posted by Benji
I am of the understanding that the JVC HVCR will work off the 1394 connection to a Mits TV. However, I think the cable companies (Comcast in my area) have probably purposely screwed up any chance you'll be able to record off their box's 1394 connection.

I've got COX cable here, and it has taken quite a bit of work, but I can record nicely now off of my STB in linux over the 1394 interface. I am working on emulating an AV/DISC in linux so that the Mits can stream the .ts streams back over the firewire to play them back. I've made some pretty good progress so far.. We'll see how it goes.

Originally posted by spiff72
Slobbie,

I know I have told you this before, but the VGA port can get a beautiful 1:1 mapping of pixels with minimal overscan thanks to the timings for powerstrip posted by MadsenD. It is a better picture than I ever had on smaller LCD displays and my CRT monitor...

I don't know why you are obsessing over the HDMI of HTPC hookup...would it help if I posted some digtal pics of my desktop from up close (and maybe some from the displaymate demo)? I think you will be pleasantly surprised by how good it looks.

Oh crap - I forgot my mother in law borrowed my digital cam, so I wouldn't be able to post any pics like that til Monday...

I'm just being anal before I decide to plunk down 4+ G's. Plus the fact that I recently upgraded my videocard mainly b/c I wanted the DVI output. I guess I would be more concerned about this issue if I WASN'T going to use an HTPC.

Your enthusiasm is infectious, spiff. I'll still prolly get this thing. Heck, if the Astros can get to the League Championships which will be in HD, then I'll definitely be buying a new tv.

When you get your camera back, please post those pics.

Originally posted by slobbie
umr,

I would like to hear your opinion on the possibility that the HDMI input converts the digital signal to analog and back again. Should this be a "deal-breaker". If you can, try to compare an HTPC's vga connection with a DVI connection. Also, please check out 1X1 mapping like Arun Gupta did in this guide (http://www.digiupdate.com/T001_Testing_Digital_Displays.html) , which I'm sure you're well aware of.

I was hoping to be the first to get you to look at the 62725 but I guess someone else beat me to it. My rush to buy this thing has been slightly tempered.

slobbie

I have only seen a block diagram that was posted on the forum. Based on that it appears HDMI is converted to analog and then to digital for processing. The pure digital paths appeared to be the ATSC tuner and firewire. I do not consider this to be a major issue. Analog can be done VERY well and digital can be handled poorly. I should have an answer about how the TV performs over firewire and component inputs.

I have read Arun's material and disagree with some of his conclusions. 1x1 mapping is not necessary for great PQ. An integer multiple of the display to the source is best, but any resolution that is equal to the original or twice the original can avoid sampling problems. The rub with this is that no consumer TV meets these requirements for all sources. A 720p display like the Mits DLP can only meet this requirement for 720p HD transmissions or computer games. Unfortunately, little HD is available in that format.

I am not a fan of HTPC's. I have not seen one yet I would trade for my Denon DVD-3800 and I am a beta tester for the darn things. I guess if you are into PC games that would be a different story, but for DVD's I have yet to see a good reason to own one. I will not be testing an HTPC or a VGA connection. I will be testing what I posted.

Originally posted by MadsenD
I've got COX cable here, and it has taken quite a bit of work, but I can record nicely now off of my STB in linux over the 1394 interface. I am working on emulating an AV/DISC in linux so that the Mits can stream the .ts streams back over the firewire to play them back. I've made some pretty good progress so far.. We'll see how it goes.

Would that basically provide the same functionality thru Netcommand that the Vividlogic firebus app is supposed provide, but with a Linux box? That would be the optimal solution for me and problaby many others.

Yes that's what I'm hoping. I currently have support similar to the capDVHS method in windows, so there is no control from the TV side of things. You have to schedule/start/stop the recordings from the computer. With the new program I'm working on Netcommand is able to detect the AV/DISC connected to it and I am receiving commands from the TV.

Thanks, umr. I look forward to your results.

Originally posted by MadsenD
Yes that's what I'm hoping. I currently have support similar to the capDVHS method in windows, so there is no control from the TV side of things. You have to schedule/start/stop the recordings from the computer. With the new program I'm working on Netcommand is able to detect the AV/DISC connected to it and I am receiving commands from the TV.

Are you a programmer, MadsenD? Think your little project would run on Fedora Core (with an easy to use installer/RPM)? :D

Thanks,
Jeff

Originally posted by umr
I have only seen a block diagram that was posted on the forum. Based on that it appears HDMI is converted to analog and then to digital for processing. The pure digital paths appeared to be the ATSC tuner and firewire. I do not consider this to be a major issue. Analog can be done VERY well and digital can be handled poorly. I should have an answer about how the TV performs over firewire and component inputs.

I have read Arun's material and disagree with some of his conclusions. 1x1 mapping is not necessary for great PQ. An integer multiple of the display to the source is best, but any resolution that is equal to the original or twice the original can avoid sampling problems. The rub with this is that no consumer TV meets these requirements for all sources. A 720p display like the Mits DLP can only meet this requirement for 720p HD transmissions or computer games. Unfortunately, little HD is available in that format.

I am not a fan of HTPC's. I have not seen one yet I would trade for my Denon DVD-3800 and I am a beta tester for the darn things. I guess if you are into PC games that would be a different story, but for DVD's I have yet to see a good reason to own one. I will not be testing an HTPC or a VGA connection. I will be testing what I posted.

UMR,

I intend to use the HTPC for internet access/browsing (these forums first and foremost), but the function I want out of it the MOST (primary fucntion) is for recording HD. If I can use a device that I already have (my main computer) to do this and save the money that an HD tuner PCI card or a DVHS would cost me, it would be a no-brainer. The computer that I am suing is actually my main desktop/gaming machine converted to use next to the TV (and by converted, I mean I picked it up and moved it!)...

The HD recording is why I am so interested in getting this firewire recording working (with CapDVHS for now), and the bigger challenge of playback (either via firewire or playback via a media player on the computer).

Thanks,
Jeff

Just got back it will take me a few minutes to write up what I saw.

Originally posted by umr
Just got back it will take me a few minutes to write up what I saw.

Sweeeet! I hope.

:D

Originally posted by spiff72
Are you a programmer, MadsenD? Think your little project would run on Fedora Core (with an easy to use installer/RPM)? :D

Thanks,
Jeff

Not by profession, I graduated in Computer Engineering but I've done a fair share of programming along the way. I have been doing the programming in my free time so It may take me a while to get everything working. If there is enough interest it shouldn't be too hard to to program it to be flexible enough to run elsewhere. Once that's done packaging it into an RPM shouldn't be much work at all.

Overview:

This is a very compelling set once calibrated when used with quality sources. I did not see it with poor quality inputs so I cannot judge how it does with those. DVD and 720p HD look about as sharp as I have ever seen. It is the best implementation of DLP technology in an RPTV that I seen so far. Dithering and rainbows were well under control.

However, it is not perfect. The big problem with the model I reviewed was it crushed whites. It was small, but real. I could not see the 98 and 99 IRE bars on Avia. This will hide some details in bright sceens.

The color wheel timing was also off. This caused the colors to be slightly off.

Enhancement was also present on closely spaced horizontal lines that I could not eliminate.



Details for the 62735 that I checked out....

Time spent calibrating & reviewing performance: ~ 3 hours

Room lighting: Normal to completely dark

Equipment used for review and calibration:

JVC 30K D-VHS
Denon DVD-3800
SA 8000HD

Sources reviewed:

Star Wars I & II
The Fifth Man
Toy Story II
DVE 720p over firewire
DVE 480p over component
Avia
Pretty Woman (PAL)

Measured On/Off Contrast Ratio: 550:1 This set was almost exactly the same brightness as my GWII, but had slightly darker blacks.

Adjustments not attempted:

We did not venture into adjust the geometry. The overscan was about 3% for the DVD player and he was happy with it. The HD input was more like 8% overscan. The internal pattern indicated about 8% overscan. I could have improved on it, but he had little interest. We had no success in improving the TV in the service menu. However, I only attempted to fix one problem.

Performance not reviewed:

I did not spend any time reviewing the SD performance or any inputs other than component and firewire. Please don't ask me about things I did not see.

What this set does well:

The frequency response of this set for component and firewire was stellar. The only set I have seen look better is the Sony Grand Wega XBR950 and this is because it had less moire due to its higher resolution. These observations apply to both chroma and luma. Truly a wonderful thing to see.

The component DVD input looked GREAT with my Denon 3800. The picture was sharp yet film like. Unlike the JVC D-ILA which was full of digital noise.

Gray scale OTB on the low temperature setting looked very good. I have seen better, but it was not bad. I did not have time to attempt a full calibration of gray scale.

Internal reflections in this set appeared to be well under control. It was present, but much less than the JVC D-ILA.

What this set needs help with:

I could not stop this TV from crushing whites on the DVD player. I did not see a problem with HD over firewire, but that could be caused by the lack of resolution of my test patterns. I could not see the bars of the Avia contrast pattern. I have never had this problem before and suggested he call Mitsubishi to see if they can fix it.

The timing of the color wheel appeared to be off. This resulted in blue leaking into colors where it should not be. I do not know of any solution for this in this TV. I am sure this is causing a subtle error in the colors including one primary.

There is enhancement on the horizontal lines. This is easily seen in the Avia wedge pattern. We could not get this to go away. It was not severe, but it is present.

The firewire input seemed to have a little more dithering than the analog. Not sure why this would be. Dithering on the component inputs was generally very minor.

I could see rainbows, but they were much less than what I have seen on previous Samsungs.

It could really use the ability to turn off individual primaries. This would really help set the gray scale and color decoder.

It does not display PAL, but I did not expect it to.

I was surprised how far off the color decoder was. It took considerable adjustment to get the colors correct. This may have been partially caused by the color wheel timing.

Chromatic abberation (color fringing) is present on this RPTV like all others as you get closer to the outside edge, but it is not horrible.

The Settings:

Sharpness - 0
Color - 31
Tint - 31
Brightness - 45
Contrast - 41
DefinEdge Off
Video Noise - Reduction
Color Temperature - Low

Custom Color Settings...

Magenta - 53
Red - 43
Yellow - 43
Green -35
Cyan - 31
Blue - 44

Thanks for all the work! :D

So what is the fix for overscan? Does it entail manually adjusting the light engine to move it forward/backwards? I am sure there will be more questions later... but thanks once again for the detailed review!

Originally posted by UMD_Terp
Thanks for all the work! :D

So what is the fix for overscan? Does it entail manually adjusting the light engine to move it forward/backwards? I am sure there will be more questions later... but thanks once again for the detailed review!

There are adjustments for moving the light engine relative to the mirror. There are also electronic adjustments for moving the image electronically.

Originally posted by umr
Overview:


Adjustments not attempted:

We did not venture into adjust the geometry. The overscan was about 3% for the DVD player and he was happy with it. The HD input was more like 8% overscan. The internal pattern indicated about 8% overscan. I could have improved on it, but he had little interest. We had no success in improving the TV in the service menu. However, I only attempted to fix one problem.



Thanks for the info....I found this part to be pretty apparent on ESPNHD. I didn't even realize that the border they put on 4:3 content is actually comprised of the letters 'HD'...too much was cut off. I saw a Sammy 61" with that as the source one day and saw that it was more than just a bunch of lines and it completely surprised me!

Randy

Originally posted by umr
Overview:

This is a very compelling set once calibrated when used with quality sources. I did not see it with poor quality inputs so I cannot judge how it does with those. DVD and 720p HD look about as sharp as I have ever seen. It is the best implementation of DLP technology in an RPTV that I seen so far. Dithering and rainbows were well under control.

UMR:

Thanks for the dillgent work and thoughtful write-up. Extremely useful information as I continue to debate my purchase. Could you provide any additional comments on what the Mits DLP did better or worse than other TVs you've assessed? What others have you looked at so I have a basis of comparison from what I've seen?

Much appreciated,
DC

I can confirm some of what umr posted. Got my 52725 today and did some adjustments to the User Controls using Avia Pro and a Sencore HD generator. I could not get the pluge patterns to distinguish between the 0 IRE or below black lines enough to be able adjust the brightness. So setting the brightness was a guess. I even tried switching the Black Enhancement adjustment on and off, no luck. I'm wondering if in the SM if there is a Bright min/max setting that is not allowing us to get there.
I will try and run a Gray scale measurement tomorrow to see how this display tracks to D65 out of the box.
I will also post my settings, but would like to go back redo Avia.
Oh, I did component via DVD and HD component via the generator. Have not done DVI/HDMI yet. Component looks pretty damn good....

Originally posted by DCinDC
UMR:

Thanks for the dillgent work and thoughtful write-up. Extremely useful information as I continue to debate my purchase. Could you provide any additional comments on what the Mits DLP did better or worse than other TVs you've assessed? What others have you looked at so I have a basis of comparison from what I've seen?

Much appreciated,
DC

I tried to do some comparisons in that review.

I have looked at many TV's, but not too many with this depth. They would include several direct view CRT's, several CRT RPTV's, a JVC D-ILA, several Sony Grand Wega's and several LCD flat panel TV's.

Originally posted by keithsimp
I can confirm some of what umr posted. Got my 52725 today and did some adjustments to the User Controls using Avia Pro and a Sencore HD generator. I could not get the pluge patterns to distinguish between the 0 IRE or below black lines enough to be able adjust the brightness. So setting the brightness was a guess. I even tried switching the Black Enhancement adjustment on and off, no luck. I'm wondering if in the SM if there is a Bright min/max setting that is not allowing us to get there.
...

I had no problems with pluge, but as you know the other end of the scale was a different case for me.

Looking at the block diagram and service menu settings I would guess that Sub Matrix YDRS (Drive Gain), YPDS (V Pedestal) and UPDS (U Pedestal) are key to fixing the problem. Main Matrix is another possibility, but it appears to used for composite and S-Video sources. Using the service mode is problematic because the darn thing distorts the picture levels while you are in the service mode. I did not have the *alls to try this on a set that was not mine and still under warranty. That is why I suggested he call Mitsubishi. This is something that just should be not be happening.

I had no problems with pluge, but as you know the other end of the scale was a different case for me.

Admittedly, you've done this longer than I have, so that's why I'm going to go back and take another look see. But I just could not see those black bars today no matter how bright I tried to take the adjustment. Maybe I need my eyes checked..........

Originally posted by keithsimp
Admittedly, you've done this longer than I have, so that's why I'm going to go back and take another look see. But I just could not see those black bars today no matter how bright I tried to take the adjustment. Maybe I need my eyes checked..........

I believe you. It sounds like we are having problems fitting the range of the A/D converter. Mine was clipping whites and yours is clipping blacks. It is the same thing. Just different extreems of the voltage range. I hope this is not common. Mitsubishi needs to fix it if it is.

UMR, the PerfectColor settings you noted... what input(s) were these settings for? PerfectColor settings have memory for each input.

Originally posted by HTBruceM
UMR, the PerfectColor settings you noted... what input(s) were these settings for? PerfectColor settings have memory for each input.

I used those for all inputs. He did not have a test pattern for his SA 8000HD.

umr:
Thanks for the effort you put into your review.

I am a newbie and want to get the best PQ from my 52525. Have the settings you've posted in your review resulted in the best PQ on your Mits? Do you think I will get similar results by using your settings? I know each set is different, but I need a starting point.

TIA......JL

Originally posted by SRFast
umr:
Thanks for the effort you put into your review.

I am a newbie and want to get the best PQ from my 52525. Have the settings you've posted in your review resulted in the best PQ on your Mits? Do you think I will get similar results by using your settings? I know each set is different, but I need a starting point.

TIA......JL

I would get a copy of Avia and use it to adjust your TV. The moving bars will show you if you have a problem with crushing whites or blacks that may require a service call.

THX Optimizer is the next best option. Adjust the contrast on THX such that the color of white is most consistent on each patch and all patches are visible.

This is not my Mits. The settings will probably be somewhat different set to set. Source devices tend to be more variable than the TV.

Settings that should not change are Sharpness, DefinEdge and Video Noise. The color temperature would be in the next category of least likely to change. Followed by the Perfect Color Settings, Color and Tint. Brightness and Contrast are the most likely to vary between devices and sets.

Just a note on using the HDMI input vs component...

I have my Dish 811 sat receiver connected via both component and a DVI to HDMI cable. I set the video settings to the same values for both inputs, and from what I have seen the component input looks far better than the HDMI. The HDMI looks washed out to me, as if the brightness is too high and the contrast is too low.

The cable I am using is from svideo.com, and I only paid about $20 for it. I don't know how much difference the cable would make, but I am not at all impressed with the HDMI port.

I will be trying the computer again via HDMI instead of the VGA port when I get some time (and I can pull my wife away from the TV)...

Thanks,
Jeff

Is there a test pattern on the DVE disc that is equivalent to Avia pattern umr used to detect the crushed whites?

Originally posted by HTBruceM
Is there a test pattern on the DVE disc that is equivalent to Avia pattern umr used to detect the crushed whites?

I used DVE and Avia. It was not easily detected with DVE.

Since this thread has touched a lot on PQ and alignment, I'm hoping someone can help me. I've had my 62725 for about a week now. So far, I'm pretty happy, though, there are some issues with the PQ that are really bothering me. I seem to have a problem with shadows (or something).

These football images are taken from OTA antenna on a digital station.

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/neoikon-TVFootball.jpg


These images from Halo are using Monster Video 3 component cables. The shadows on the text isn't very apparent in these pictures, but in person they are really annoying. It makes my friends say, "Why is the picture blurry?" It's not something I want to hear after spending 4K on a TV! An important note, if I enable 480P this shadowing problem occurs. If I have it in 480i mode, the shadows disappear. Why is this?

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/neoikon-TVHalo.jpg

Any help is greatly appreciated! Is there something I can tweak? I've already tried turning on and off the video enhancements (such as "Video Noise", "DefinEdge", etc)

Originally posted by neoikon
... An important note, if I enable 480P this shadowing problem occurs. If I have it in 480i mode, the shadows disappear. Why is this?...

What ever you are using to convert to progressive is adding enhnacement to the image. Leave it in 480i and forget it.

UMR,

You said there was a way to alter overscan via electronic means, instead of moving the light engine. How would one do that?? If its in the SM menu, which menu item shrinks the image, which is what I imagine needs to happen, just as would happen if you move the light engine closer or farther away from the first mirror.

Originally posted by technik
UMR,

You said there was a way to alter overscan via electronic means, instead of moving the light engine. How would one do that?? If its in the SM menu, which menu item shrinks the image, which is what I imagine needs to happen, just as would happen if you move the light engine closer or farther away from the first mirror.

I said, "There are adjustments for moving the light engine relative to the mirror. There are also electronic adjustments for moving the image electronically." I do not know how to alter the size of the image electronically only how to move it. VPOS and HPOS can shift the position.

UMR thanks for all of your time efforts and insight. I've done some tweaking to my 62725 settings as you suggested. I had some very subtle differences in the contrast and brightness settings from those you obtained when I used the AVIA disk.

You made my day and the PQ of my TV looks awesome!!! I still see a few rainbows from time to time but I'm trying to get used to them and ignore them. As you said they are nowhere near are evident to me on this Mits as they were on the Sammy's.

Thanks again!!

Originally posted by Reyfam
...You made my day and the PQ of my TV looks awesome!!! I still see a few rainbows from time to time but I'm trying to get used to them and ignore them. As you said they are nowhere near are evident to me on this Mits as they were on the Sammy's.

Thanks again!!

No problem. I hope you enjoy your set.

I have a solution for rainbows as well, but I am exploring a patent. Here's a hint. It involves duct tape and your eyelids.
:D

UMR,

Sorry for the mis quote. BTW did you have the black enhancement set to on or off?? Thanks for the advice.

Originally posted by technik
UMR,

Sorry for the mis quote. BTW did you have the black enhancement set to on or off?? Thanks for the advice.

Off.

Most enhancement functions border on being evil with respect to PQ. I am guessing it alters Gamma. I do not believe in adapting gamma on the fly. Modifying gamma to enhance black level performance will tend to enhance dithering and MPEG artifacts which I detest.

Thanks. I have adjusted my 525 based on your recommendations.

Originally posted by technik
Thanks. I have adjusted my 525 based on your recommendations.

Be careful about using all of the settings I posted. I always recommend using test patterns to set color, tint, contrast and brightness.

Thanks umr. I tried your settings on my 52525 and like the colors better. They are more vibrant without looking saturated. Thought the color settings might be too high but the color temp set to low is the key (it was previously set to medium). However, DefinEdge set to off on quality HD programs makes the picture too soft for my liking. I still wonder if this effect varies set to set.

Originally posted by delar
...However, DefinEdge set to off on quality HD programs makes the picture too soft for my liking. I still wonder if this effect varies set to set.

I doubt it changes set to set. It is an enhancement function. I spent quite a bit of time looking at how it functions with both HD and DVD material. The effect is not positive.

It is fine if you like it, but it actually will mask details. That is the funny thing about enhancement circuits. They improve the visibility of edges, but can cause ringing with certain patterns and may obscure details. However, many people like the look. That is why the TV's have it. It is "your" TV in the end and you can choose what you like.

umr: Why is the Sharpness setting 00? Why not a low-mid setting (10-20)? Just curious.

Thanks....JL

Originally posted by SRFast
umr: Why is the Sharpness setting 00? Why not a low-mid setting (10-20)? Just curious.

Thanks....JL

Higher levels added ringing to the frequency sweep patterns. Even at 0 there is a problem with the horizontal wedge pattern on Avia.

Hey everyone...

This morning my wife turned on the TV, and it was asking if the lamp was changed. She couldn't figure out what the "Cancel" button was, so she ended up pushing enter instead. As you know, the enter button is the one that means "yes i changed the lamp". Is this a big deal at all? I went into the 2470 options menu, and I see the total hours is 404, and the first lamp item shows 3 hrs, and there aren't any others shown. Shouldn't there be another value in one of the other "000" fields that would show the hours for the "First" lamp??

Thanks,
Jeff

Originally posted by umr
What ever you are using to convert to progressive is adding enhnacement to the image. Leave it in 480i and forget it.

The only thing I'm using to convert to progressive is the Xbox itself. It has an option saying, "Can your TV support 480p?" I tell is "no" to force 480i in order to improve the picture, but that's disappointing!

Any comment on OTA shadows?

Thanks for any advice!

Originally posted by neoikon
The only thing I'm using to convert to progressive is the Xbox itself. It has an option saying, "Can your TV support 480p?" I tell is "no" to force 480i in order to improve the picture, but that's disappointing!

Any comment on OTA shadows?

Thanks for any advice!

Turn all enhancements off and set sharpness to 0. I would look at your cables next if that does not work. I would go with cables that use Canare connectors and Bleden or Canare wire.

In case you go off searching the internet for bleden, Umr meant to say "b-e-l-d-e-n", not bleden

Given the good performance of the scaler in these sets, I am now leaning towards picking up a Denon DVD-2900. It is a great universal player and it can be had for a great price now that the 2910 is out. Any comments or input on this? The hype behing upscaling DVD players over HDMI seems to be just that... hype. If the scaler in the TV does a fine job and the HDMI input on this set indeed goes through an A/D, I don't see the need to have an upscaling player over HDMI...

UMD_Terp,

Actually, the scaling DVD player thing is part hype and part reality. A DVD-2900 on this TV should be great. Some TV's benefit from external scaling others don't. This one won't as a general rule unless the scaling player is better for other reasons.

If anyone is interested I can post a few pictures of my TV images with the HDMI input vs the component input from my Dish Network 811 receiver. I was thinking maybe I could focus on the "HD" pillarboxes on the ESPN-HD channel that they use during SD content. I could even do a side by side picture with both on screen at the same time, but I don't know what that would look like. It might help show the washed out look though...

I just have to get my camera back from my mother in law (probably tonite)...

I owe some others some pictures of the computer image over VGA connection too.

Thanks,
Jeff

Originally posted by spiff72
If anyone is interested I can post a few pictures of my TV images with the HDMI input vs the component input from my Dish Network 811 receiver. I was thinking maybe I could focus on the "HD" pillarboxes on the ESPN-HD channel that they use during SD content. I could even do a side by side picture with both on screen at the same time, but I don't know what that would look like. It might help show the washed out look though...

I just have to get my camera back from my mother in law (probably tonite)...

I owe some others some pictures of the computer image over VGA connection too.

Thanks,
Jeff

Also, if anyone cares to see it, what settings would you like to see from the 811? Should I set it to output 720p (esp since ESPN-HD is a 720p broadcaster)?

Thanks,
Jeff

I think those pics would be quite useful :D

I would set the box to output 720p for ESPNHD....

All,

Just went to the Mitsubishi website and saw they updated the 725 info. They removed the TV-Guide feature, and now the users manual is a combo 525-725 manual. Here's a link if anyone want's to download.


525-725 Owners Guide (PDF) (http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/2004_2005_product_pages/Owners_Guides_PDFs/525-725%20OG.pdf)

What's the matter spiff72? Didn't think we could read your post the first time eh?

Seriously, it's time you investigated what the edit button is capable of me-thinks. :o

Originally posted by Reynard
What's the matter spiff72? Didn't think we could read your post the first time eh?

Seriously, it's time you investigated what the edit button is capable of me-thinks. :o

:rolleyes:

Sheesh

OK all (or Terp at least)...

I took some pictures, and they didn't turn out to be as spectacular as I had imagined them...

Here is a link to an album - you all should be able to access it.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/spiff72@sbcglobal.net/my_photos

Just a note about them...I tried to give them reasonable descriptive names (like "comp1" means component video picture one, "hdmi1" means hdmi picture 1) so I hope the names mean something.

For one of the pictures, I took a picture of some odd jaggies that were present in both the component video and hdmi signals.

The side by side pics show the component video signal on the left and the hdmi on the right. And just to let you know the subject matter of these pics is quite nice :D (Hawaiian Tropic was part of the title of the show)

I don't know how easy it is to tell, but the HDMI input is brighter (and not necessarily in a good way) than the component, but it might have more detail...

Let me know what you think...

Thanks,
Jeff

I've noticed through a search of "music" in this thread that some people have been unable to receive music stations when using a cable card. Has anyone found a fix for this problem? Will a firmware upgrade fix it? I'm told by my cable provider (Charter) that the TV may not be accepting the music channels because they are broadcast only in audio (no video signal).

Originally posted by coymacoy
I've noticed through a search of "music" in this thread that some people have been unable to receive music stations when using a cable card. Has anyone found a fix for this problem? Will a firmware upgrade fix it? I'm told by my cable provider (Charter) that the TV may not be accepting the music channels because they are broadcast only in audio (no video signal).

I needed the .02 firmware to get music channels to work with my Motorola cablecard. Scientific Atlanta cards seem to have issues so you may have problems with it if you have one even with new firmware.

Originally posted by spiff72
OK all (or Terp at least)...

I took some pictures, and they didn't turn out to be as spectacular as I had imagined them...

Here is a link to an album - you all should be able to access it.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/spiff72@sbcglobal.net/my_photos

Just a note about them...I tried to give them reasonable descriptive names (like "comp1" means component video picture one, "hdmi1" means hdmi picture 1) so I hope the names mean something.

For one of the pictures, I took a picture of some odd jaggies that were present in both the component video and hdmi signals.

The side by side pics show the component video signal on the left and the hdmi on the right. And just to let you know the subject matter of these pics is quite nice :D (Hawaiian Tropic was part of the title of the show)

I don't know how easy it is to tell, but the HDMI input is brighter (and not necessarily in a good way) than the component, but it might have more detail...

Let me know what you think...

Thanks,
Jeff


hehehehe... great subject matter :D I forgot what to look for, can you remind me again? :D

The VGA looks great. It's hard to tell, but HDMI looks a bit more detailed. Once question: Are you feeding the HDMI 1080i as well? I wonder how HDMI would look with a 720p source... maybe it looks just as good as component if not better...

Originally posted by UMD_Terp
hehehehe... great subject matter :D I forgot what to look for, can you remind me again? :D

The VGA looks great. It's hard to tell, but HDMI looks a bit more detailed. Once question: Are you feeding the HDMI 1080i as well? I wonder how HDMI would look with a 720p source... maybe it looks just as good as component if not better...

Both sides are 1080i in the bikini pictures (I had the 811 set for 720p for the espn pictures of the "HD" pillar boxes). Both sides have to be the same, since the the receiver is set to a resolution for all HD outputs.

I just switched it to 720p and tuned in MNF through the OTA tuner on the dish...

I am actually having a very hard time telling the difference between 720p and 1080i from the dish receiver on 720p channels. I still am not very happy with the DVI to HDMI from the dish. I can't rule out that the 811 receiver is at fault rather than the TV. I just can't get the colors to pop via HDMI like they do on component, and the blacks (pillarboxes) on HDMI look gray (especially on POP with both displayed)...

I need some test patterns from HDNET!

Thanks,
Jeff

hmmmmm.... I am wondering if the tuner is crushing blacks since you have a DVI->HDMI connection. There is a known problem with the color space translation between DVI and HMDI on some transmitter chips. This is a known issue for DVD players, but may very well apply to your Dish 811 as well...

actually, now that I think about it, I think the problem was with HDMI transmitters... so I may be wrong. If your dish is DVI out, then you probably would not have the color space translation problem.... DVI -> HDMI is ok... it's the other way around that may be troublesome.

Service Tech showed up last Thursday (issues with the IR receiver). With the tech removing and reinstalling the back panel, and other observations I made within the first few minutes, I will state with conviction that I wouldn't trust him rotating the tires on a Buick. :rolleyes: He admitted a lack of knowledge of the new Mits DLP's (he said he was experienced with Samsung's though. hmmmm?) As he departed, he mentioned that he didn't know when I could expect repairs could be made or completed.

He left without anything being done. And there's my cue. I immediately called my local BB up within minutes. This past Saturday, I had my 62525 exchanged for another. And this one works perfectly.

Me = Happy Camper.

are there any poroblems with tilt?

I measured (to compare with my previous TV) There is a tilt, however slight. The only way I noticed it was dragging out a ruler and actually measuring it. Maybe a 1/16 to a 1/8 inch difference from upper left to upper right. Not enough to justify a service call imho. I also noticed the software version was different in the new TV... version 003 instead of the older version 001.

Originally posted by QGGeneric
I also noticed the software version was different in the new TV... version 003 instead of the older version 001.

Hmmm...this is on a 525 series unit, right?

Somewhere in one of the many Mits DLP threads someone posted that a Mits CSR had told him that the v02 was the highest for the 525s and that v03 was for the 725s. I guess that's not right either...

DC

Yup. 62525. Software version v26.004.03

Hey all,

I got home from work today and found that I could no longer get the digital channels on both my cable and OTA inputs. I did a reboot, and now all is well again.

I did the initial "reset issue" firmware upgrade, and haven't gotten any new updates. Is the loss of digital channels one of the symptoms that would lead one to think I need a newer firmware, or is this just an isolated thing??

My firmware version is still .001

Thanks,
Jeff

Originally posted by spiff72
Hey all,

I got home from work today and found that I could no longer get the digital channels on both my cable and OTA inputs. I did a reboot, and now all is well again.

I did the initial "reset issue" firmware upgrade, and haven't gotten any new updates. Is the loss of digital channels one of the symptoms that would lead one to think I need a newer firmware, or is this just an isolated thing??

My firmware version is still .001

Thanks,
Jeff

Somewhere in one of the many Mits DLP threads someone posted that a Mits CSR had told him that the v02 was the highest for the 525s and that v03 was for the 725s. I guess that's not right either...


i have the 62525 and was losing digital channels. I had already upgraded to the .02 firmware. After a call to customer service, they sent out the .03 firmware which appears to have fixed the problem.

Originally posted by Rufhausen
i have the 62525 and was losing digital channels. I had already upgraded to the .02 firmware. After a call to customer service, they sent out the .03 firmware which appears to have fixed the problem.

I've had this problem with the .03 sw (on a 62725). Actually, the problem was on a re-scan....even though I saw it "add" the digital channels during the scan, they did not show up in the OTA "guide" and I could not tune them in. A reset, re-scan fixed the problem.

Originally posted by boristhedog
I've had this problem with the .03 sw (on a 62725). Actually, the problem was on a re-scan....even though I saw it "add" the digital channels during the scan, they did not show up in the OTA "guide" and I could not tune them in. A reset, re-scan fixed the problem.

This just happened to me. I re-scanned in an attempt to get the local ABC affiliate's digital channels memorized, but all my digitals disappeared. I re-scanned again, no luck. A reset and re-scan got them back. Of course, when I saw it add the channels when it didn't save them, I noted that it seemed to memorize the channel I was after. After I re-scanned, no dice. I didn't happen to notice what happened during the rescan this time, though.....

Edit: Oddly enough, I just noticed that my set has .02 and I got my set delivered the same day as Craig....hmmmmm.....


Randy

Originally posted by boristhedog
I've had this problem with the .03 sw (on a 62725). Actually, the problem was on a re-scan....even though I saw it "add" the digital channels during the scan, they did not show up in the OTA "guide" and I could not tune them in. A reset, re-scan fixed the problem.

Keep in mind that somewhere early one of the Mits DLP threads there was a post saying that the number we're all referring to doesn't necessarily reflect the firmware version. Anyone remember where that info came from? Not sure what's what now...

DC

Originally posted by DCinDC
Keep in mind that somewhere early one of the Mits DLP threads there was a post saying that the number we're all referring to doesn't necessarily reflect the firmware version. Anyone remember where that info came from? Not sure what's what now...

DC

I remember reading that, but my theory now is that it was just as much a problem for Mitsubishi as it was for us in identifying the firmware, so they are probably changing the number each time considering how fast they went from .02 to .03. I think they sent me .03 within 2 weeks of sending me .02.
Just a theory.

Anyone have the green glow addressed on a dark input yet? Other problem im having is small fan never turns off...Another is tv will want to turn off all by itself? It says tv will turn off in one minute out of the blue....? Sleep timer is not on....

I do like this tv though.... Dvds are the best i have ever seen for a rear projection...

Another big problem is what i call the funhouse affect... Whenever there is camera movement things get skinny, fat, its just not normal...

Originally posted by Zues
Another big problem is what i call the funhouse affect... Whenever there is camera movement things get skinny, fat, its just not normal... Zues, you've got one of the video stretch modes turned on.

I just noticed it does it in standard mode too...

Originally posted by Zues
Anyone have the green glow addressed on a dark input yet? Other problem im having is small fan never turns off...Another is tv will want to turn off all by itself? It says tv will turn off in one minute out of the blue....? Sleep timer is not on.... Greens on dark scenes is somewhat normal for DLP TVs on standard definition broadcasts.

The fan running all the time is normal. Lots of the TV tuner and timer circuitry is always running in the background, even when the TV is "off". And the circuitry apparently runs hot, so it needs a fan to dissipate the heat.

Regarding the "turn off in one minute"... If it's not the timer, then I'd guess you have a recording time set up in Netcommand. You need to clear the recording event from Netcommand.

Originally posted by Zues
I just noticed it does it in standard mode too... Thats because you have it on "standard" instead of "narrow". Standard is stretching everything equally to make a 4:3 video material completely fill the 16:9 screen. Same goes for the stretch modes. Your manual covers these things in detail.

You actually use "narrow mode"?... That puts a square picture in the middle of tv? You cant even use narrow with direcTv it puts it at 1080i standard...?

Can you see the effect im talkin abought bruce?

I use narrow mode for my 4:3 DVD's otherwise the TV assumes it's a 16:9 picture and stretches it out. TV Series DVD's mostly that aren't filmed/distributed in widescreen format.

Tonight I'm getting something funky happening. The channel info in the upper left corner is dispalying "SD 4:3 Standard" on all my HD channels even though I'm seeing HD 16:9. I can even change the format on these channels....Zoom, Narrow, Stretch....everything but Stretch Plus. And these are truly HD channels.....INHD, HDNet, etc. I've never been able to do that before.

Originally posted by Zues
Another big problem is what i call the funhouse affect... Whenever there is camera movement things get skinny, fat, its just not normal...

This is one of the stretch modes as someone else said earlier.

The mode leaves the senter of the picture alone for the most part, and stretched the sides to fill the 16:9 screen. It does cause odd distortions as things move from right to left and left to right (like scrolling text along the screen).

I have seen some channels will actually do this too (TNT-HD's conversion of The Shawshank Redemption, for example).

Originally posted by DCinDC
Keep in mind that somewhere early one of the Mits DLP threads there was a post saying that the number we're all referring to doesn't necessarily reflect the firmware version. Anyone remember where that info came from? Not sure what's what now...

DC

This started when the very first firmware update was released (for the reset issue). When I updated, it fixed the issue, but the version number didn't change (it stayed at .001). Some speculated that the version number on the setup screen was the netcommand number, but I think Mits started incrementing the number after that particular update.

Thanks,
Jeff

Originally posted by Zues
You actually use "narrow mode"?... That puts a square picture in the middle of tv? You cant even use narrow with direcTv it puts it at 1080i standard...?

Can you see the effect im talkin abought bruce?

Sounds like your Dtv receiver is set to output everything to the TV at 1080i, which, in turn, limits the display options available to you with the TV (narrow, stretch, etc.). You might want to change your receiver setup so it outputs the display in "native" mode so that signals in 480i, etc. can utilize these different display modes. Your receiver probably has some different display modes built in as well if you want to do it on that end instead.

Originally posted by QGGeneric
There is a tilt, however slight. The only way I noticed it was dragging out a ruler and actually measuring it. Maybe a 1/16 to a 1/8 inch difference from upper left to upper right. Not enough to justify a service call imho.

For those who want to do some of these simple services yourself, here are some instructions:

For Tilt:
Instructions (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4408117#post4408117)
Diagram (http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4470269&fullpage=1)

For Vertical and Horizontal Positioning:
Instructions (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4461167#post4461167)

Thanks for the original people who gave us this information.

neoikon

Here's a picture of my 62725 setup and stand. The stand is 14" high, 20" deep, and 60" long. It has 6 casters. Cost me $75. :]

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/neoikon-myTV.jpg

Did you build the stand yourself or buy it somewhere? If you bought it where did you get it from? If you built is what type of wood did you use?

Thanks
Brad

Originally posted by b_gable
Did you build the stand yourself or buy it somewhere? If you bought it where did you get it from? If you built is what type of wood did you use?

Thanks
Brad

I built it myself. I went to Home Depot and bought a sheet of MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard, 3/4"), had them cut it to my specs (for free)... sheet was $22.

Since the Mitsubishi stand is 14" high, that's what I modeled mine after.

neoikon

anyway you could post the dimensions so some of us can take advantage of that awesome deal!!! Looks Great!!!

Thanks Kevin Barduca (A-1)

Originally posted by neoikon
I built it myself.
I'm interested in how you did the joints to stand up to ~200 lbs of sideways motion.

Originally posted by HTBruceM
Greens on dark scenes is somewhat normal for DLP TVs on standard definition broadcasts.


I have the same green glow as umd-terp....This is what im seeing too...Check a blank input in a dark room to see if you have this...

Originally posted by Zues
I have the same green glow as umd-terp....This is what im seeing too...Check a blank input in a dark room to see if you have this...

I see more of a spectrum of color rather than just green only in this spot... In fact, I only notice this bright spot in a very dark scene or a black screen. It doesn't take much away from a regular picture, but it does show up in dark scenes. The rest of the screen is just fine, except for this spot. I also see a bright white line shining through the screen on the lower part of it when I get a foot or so away from the screen. To me, this is not right. My local Mits. tech says something is not right... discussions are on going with Mitsubishi tech support... once I have a final answer, I'll post what I know.

hey all....


Anybody had success with hooking up a 1394 enabled HD cable box to the 525?? Comcast finally figured out how to push me the new SW for my Sci Atl 3250. The TV sees it, but I get no picture or sound. Anybody had luck with this yet??

Yup i see the spectrum :mad: I know this is not normal either, the 62525s ive seen did not have this...

I got my WD-62525 about a week ago and I'm very happy with the HD PQ (source is Comcast Cable via CableCARD). However, I am disappointed with the DVD PQ. I have a Sony DVP-CX777ES connected via a Monster MV2CV component cable. The Sony is set to Progressive (480p) output. The picture is just kind of grainy. I understand it will not look as good as HD, but it's way below my expectations. Anyone experience this, and what kind of player/connection are you using? Thanks.

Quick question:

After xx725 and xx825, is there anything else after those that will be coming out soon? At least a DLP tv

Originally posted by tsiopni
... Anyone experience this, and what kind of player/connection are you using? Thanks.

I had good luck with a Denon DVD-3800. I can't speak to the player you were using.

Originally posted by umr
Off.

Most enhancement functions border on being evil with respect to PQ. I am guessing it alters Gamma. I do not believe in adapting gamma on the fly. Modifying gamma to enhance black level performance will tend to enhance dithering and MPEG artifacts which I detest.


Can you please explain how to shut off the black enhancement. I cannot find this option. Thanks

Originally posted by Mac3150
Can you please explain how to shut off the black enhancement. I cannot find this option. Thanks

Look in the user manual. That is what I would have to do to find it at this time.

Edit: Page 73 in the 525 series manual shows how to turn it off.

Originally posted by papaduxx
are there any poroblems with tilt?


I exchanged a 525 for a 725 and once again have the tilt and reset issues. I also have what others have reported appears to be a brightness in the lower middle portion of my screen when viewing a dark or black screen and when standing very close to the screen if I look down toward the bottom center I can also see a bright line.

Has anyones service tech taken care of these issues?

Originally posted by umr
Look in the user manual. That is what I would have to do to find it at this time.

Edit: Page 73 in the 525 series manual shows how to turn it off.

Thanks, I found it in the setup menu.

Originally posted by Mac3150
I exchanged a 525 for a 725 and once again have the tilt and reset issues. I also have what others have reported appears to be a brightness in the lower middle portion of my screen when viewing a dark or black screen and when standing very close to the screen if I look down toward the bottom center I can also see a bright line.

Has anyones service tech taken care of these issues?

I am currently working with my local tech to figure out what is going on with the bright spot. Originally he mailed Mitsubishi tech support and got a reply saying that everything was normal and that what I was describing is fine. I pursued it myself with Mitsubishi customer relations and emailed pictures of the problem to their tech support. Last I heard, Mitsubishi was going to contact my local tech. If I find anything out tomorrow, I will post here. I think there is a problem, and my local tech seems to agree. The issue is that all repairs to these TVs must be approved by Mitsubishi technical assistance. If your local tech does not get authorization to perform a repair, they can do nothing with it. If more of us start reporting this issue to Mitsubishi, they will perhaps look at it more in depth. I think there was a manufacturing change or revision in going to the 725 from the 525... my previous 525 did not have this issue at all. Granted, it may be considered minor, it still should not be there.

A couple of questions:

Is there any real difference between the 525 and the 725 other than the protective screen? The specs on the Mits website seems to indicate the only difference is something the 525 has that is not listed for the 725: 'ChannelView' - any input on this - what it is, why it isn't on the 725? If the only real difference is the protective screen, and I don't have kids that will hurt the screen under it, should I just get a 525 and remove the screen and replace it with the trim kit that is supposed to be coming out?

Let's talk about warranty's/service plans for a minute. With all the issues/problems that people have reported here and their admonishments to make sure you get a good plan, who has the best? People here talk about getting sets replaced almost like returning a bad apple to the grocery store. I was under the impression that most warrantys left it up to the store/issuer whether to service or replace a unit with a problem, yet from these threads it seems that people get to choose a replacement rather than service. I have not bought a big electronic device like a 52-62" DLP in a great while - what is the latest I should look for in these policies? BestBuy is having a 10% off sale this weekend and I am thinking of getting a 62525 or 62725, and would really appreciate a bunch of input on these two models, BestBuy as a place to buy, and what kind of warranty/service policy I should be looking for - should I buy an independant warranty from another source that would cost more, but offer more flexibility in the choices I can make about returns/service?? If so, whose?

Thank you all for your help!!!!

Both the 725 and 525 have ChannelView channel guide. The 725 was previously slated to have the Gemstar channel guide, but not anymore. It retains the guide that was present in the 525. The screen should be the only difference along with the black grille in place of the all silver plastic 525 grille. The antiglare screen on the 725 is an improvement, but still not a complete solution to eliminating glare. I have removed the screen on both my previous 525 and my current 725 and they are pretty much the same. I still think the 725 looks slightly better, but that can be attributed to different calibration on each set.

As for return policies... a 30-day return policy is nice. Returning set after set, is probably not the best idea for minor issues that can be adjusted out. Unless the TV requires major invasive replacement of parts, I would say that a repair is more favorable than replacing a set. For all you know, the new set may have another different set of problems. I think Mitsubishi is still trying to get a grasp of all the manufacturing variations in these sets. The tilt issue and this bright spot problem are a prime example. These are things that may not affect all sets, but do affect a percentage of them. The majority are never noticed as problems because as a whole, the general consumer is not as critical as we here may be. If we go to mitsubishi and point these issues out to them, we in a way are doing them a great service by allowing them to troubleshoot problems and variations in their manufacturing. I think given that this is Mitsubishi's first real attempt at a DLP, they have done a good job with it. The severity of problems people are seeing are pretty minor when thought of on a grand scale. It seems that Mitsubishi has been reponsive to these issues for exactly these reasons... their goal is to improve their manufacturing capabilities...

By the way... can we get a tally of who all is seeing this bright spot on their Mitsubishi DLP?

I count at least 4 people including me that I have heard of... it would be good to get an estimate. For everyone that has this problem, please consider contacting Mitsubishi directly either via email or their customer service phone line... even if you do have the set replaced, it gives Mitsubishi a data point with this issue.

UMD_Terp,

I took receipt of my 52725 on Friday and I did notice the 'bright spot'. I didn't do any further investigation as I decided to return the 52725 for the 62725. That is being delivered THIS Friday. I will let you know what I find. When I did notice it on the 52725 it was during a scene in a show where the background was mostly black...NOt sure if it was an HD channel or not.

Anyway, I hope this isn't a global problem...if it is...we need to all unite and pressure Mitsubishi to fix this.

Will followup soon

Andy

Originally posted by UMD_Terp
By the way... can we get a tally of who all is seeing this bright spot on their Mitsubishi DLP?

I count at least 4 people including me that I have heard of... it would be good to get an estimate. For everyone that has this problem, please consider contacting Mitsubishi directly either via email or their customer service phone line... even if you do have the set replaced, it gives Mitsubishi a data point with this issue.

Hi...
I might see the slightest hint of the spot when on an unused input, but I can't see anything at all with any content displayed...regardless of the darkness of the scene.....

Edit: Er, let me rephrase....I don't see the spot with any content displayed.... :D

Randy

My 62725 is coming in next week. I had previously had 4 Philips LCOS sets and the issue with each one was seeing white streaks and round splotches on dark scenes. Apparently the cause was dust on the light engine but it kept occuring and the spots seemed to multiply over time. I'm not sure how the light engine of the DLP compares but this could be the white streak you are seeing Terp.

I have not seen the bright spot on my 62725.

BTW, I have heard the xx725 cabinates are a little better constructed. Perhaps to prevent tilt issues (general misallignment) during shipment.

Thanks UDM_Terp,
I understand that this group represents the 'one-percenters' - the driving edge in audio/video electronics users - and am glad to be able to participate and learn. I am a far more informed consumer due to what I have learned over the last couple of years here regarding all aspects of HT.

Did you end up deciding to leave the screen off on your 725? If it is less reflective that way it would be fine for me - my kids know not to touch any of the HT stuff.

Do you or anyone else have any real-world experience with BestBuy's return policy/warranty? I may buy the DLP and a Denon 3910 this weekend. They are offering 12% off with their BestBuy card and that would cover the extended warranty and about half of the tax on the two units I think. We would also get about $200 in reward dollars that I would put towards some new DVDs, DVD-As and SACDs.

I'll have to look long and hard at the 525/725 to see if the difference in cosmetics justifies the difference in price. It seems that the 525 did have more issues than the 725 has had, but maybe that is just because they came out first? As to the tilt issue - I can't recall if that has been fixable by tweaks or do you need a service call?

Lastly, with a Denon 3805 AVR, a Denon 3910 and say the 725 - how would you set it up? HDMI direct from 3910 to 725? Denon link and 6 channel analog audio (for SACD) out of 3910 to 3805 and Component to 725? My current cable box doesn't even have an S-video out if you can believe it (Adelphia in the heart of the entertainment capitol of the world = sucks!).

Thanks, I go pick up my 7 Paradigm Studio series speakers today - yahoo!!!

I put the screen back on my 725. If you are going to go and take the screen off anyways, just get the 525 and save your money. Glare is not a big issue for me at all, so I choose to leave the screen on.

I don't think Best Buy carries Denon products... you will find those at more of the mid - high end electronics retailers. Your connections to the 3805 and TV all sound fine... certainly a nice combination :D

The tilt issue is fixable by yourself... the severity of it depends on whether or not you will need to get at the light engine from the back to access the rotational adjustments. In most cases, the front keystone adjustments and the service menu positioning is all it takes. Those are very easy to do...

Originally posted by neoikon
I have not seen the bright spot on my 62725.

BTW, I have heard the xx725 cabinates are a little better constructed. Perhaps to prevent tilt issues (general misallignment) during shipment.

I noticed this in going from the 525 to 725. The 725 is noticeably more rigid in its construction.

Not sure why these 'bright spots' are considered an issue? Are they affecting the picture in a negative way? Do we know that this is a defect in the units? Or is it a case of, 'I see something different therefore something must be wrong' ? Do we know what a normal perfectly working set is supposed to do or not supposed to do?
I noticed this 'bright spot' only once and that was when my 52725 was powering down one night. Haven't paid any attention to it since. If doesn't impact the quality of the picture or grow more noticeable over time, then for me it's probably not an issue.

The spot itself is not a huge issue when viewing a bright scene. I think maybe people have varying amounts of brightness depending on their set. In a dark scene, I notice it. Plus, it just doesn't seem right to have this bright white line shining through the screen. That is visible from about a foot away lookng down on the screen. It seems to me that errant light is getting into a mirror somewhere.

No bright white lines here. I will throw up the 0 IRE step and see if there's anything noticeable. I'll let you know.

Originally posted by tsiopni
. . . I am disappointed with the DVD PQ. I have a Sony DVP-CX777ES connected via a Monster MV2CV component cable. The Sony is set to Progressive (480p) output. The picture is just kind of grainy. I understand it will not look as good as HD, but it's way below my expectations. Anyone experience this, and what kind of player/connection are you using? Thanks.

I too had a bad picture when I first went from a 32" CRT to the 62" Mits, and it took me a while to figure everything out. Don't know if you've already done all of this, but here are changes I had to make:

1. Change the DVD player's output to send to a 16:9 screen.
2. Change the Mits format to normal. Mine came defaulted to one of the stretch/expand modes.
3. Turn on noise reduction in the Mits.
4. Lower sharpness in the Mits.
5. Turn on film mode in the Mits.
6. Use Definedge in the Mits to suit your taste.
7. See if the DVD player has any output controls you can fiddle with. Perhaps output in 480i and let the Mits do the de-interlacing?

Originally posted by keithsimp
No bright white lines here. I will throw up the 0 IRE step and see if there's anything noticeable. I'll let you know.

You will see the bright line on the lower part of the screen... almost at the bottom in the center. It is horizontal and extends approximately 10 inches or so. It may break up in parts as mine does in one spot. It is easily visible on a black screen...

Couldn't find this issue on the various Mits threads. Using a direct cable input (I haven't tested with my CableCard yet), the audio and video some times go out of sync on both analog and HD channels. On some HD channels, I occasionally lose audio completely. So far, either changing the channels back and forth or powering off the tv has worked.

Mits tech support said there is no flash firmware upgrade available for my 62725, and they need to send a service tech. I said to hold off until I am able to videotape the occurence.

Anyone else have audio sync problems?

I also just received a call from Mitsubishi technical support... they have contacted my local service center and are awaiting his call back to them... I am apparantly the first to notice such an issue up until now. The guy said he has forwarded my email on to his engineering staff for further review.

I've had my 62725 for a day now and am overall happy with it. I noticed when watching the NLCS last night that the white jerseys sometimes seemed REALLY white. Is this that "white crush" some have noticed with DLP's? Any way to tweak it out?

The pc connection is great via VGA. Surfing web is crystal clear...way better than my replaced 32 inch crt dtv.

Thanks.

Originally posted by umr
I had good luck with a Denon DVD-3800. I can't speak to the player you were using.

Do the newer, "upscaling" DVD players make a significant difference, or are progressive scan and 3-2 pulldown the main features to look for? Also, I think I have a pretty good component cable, it was about $75, but I know they make them more expensive - is the difference noticeable? Thanks.

No bright spots on my 62725.

Originally posted by Keyser Sose
No bright spots on my 62725. DITTO. Had mine 6 days now and so far "0" defects. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Originally posted by slobbie
I've had my 62725 for a day now and am overall happy with it. I noticed when watching the NLCS last night that the white jerseys sometimes seemed REALLY white. Is this that "white crush" some have noticed with DLP's? Any way to tweak it out?

First try reducing the Contrast (if you haven't already). It comes from the factory maxed out, and this is the setting that affects white crush.
The settings from umr are very close to my own (on a 52525), and my contrast is generally set at 41, and brightness set to 40. YMMV, but I recommended trying out the DVE or AVIA calibration discs to get your set in the ballpark. Or you could just use umr's posted values as a starting point.

Originally posted by tsiopni
Do the newer, "upscaling" DVD players make a significant difference, or are progressive scan and 3-2 pulldown the main features to look for? Also, I think I have a pretty good component cable, it was about $75, but I know they make them more expensive - is the difference noticeable? Thanks.

It is hard to tell without trying one, but not all aspects of those players are positive. I have a hard time believing a scaling player will look any better. The test patterns and DVD's I looked at were excellent except for some problems I noted with the TV itself.

The shorter the cable the less likely the problem. I was not using expensive cables during my testing. I do in my own house though because of cable lengths. I would call $75 expensive. Canare ends with Beldin or Canare cable is all that is needed.

I've had my 62725 for 2 days now. I'm very pleased! No tilt, no bright spots. I found the media card slots on the front to be great. (Not talked about too much.) If you've got a decent digital camera, the pictures viewed on a 62" screen in HD resolutions is just awesome.

I've got a good, progressive scan DVD player (Toshiba SD-9200, paid $1200 for it a couple years ago). I found the picture was better when I send 480i to the TV and let it do the de-interlacing.

Only HD I'm getting now is OTA CBS from an antenna in my attic. I will probably have to get up on my roof to pull in the Fox and NBC stations.

Also hooked up the laptop to the VGA port to see how WMV-HD looked. Very good, though not 720p mapped 1:1. I'm not that computer-smart.

Love this set!!

I posted some powerstrip timings that have worked for several people to get 1:1 720p mappings.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=454127

They may work for you too. The VGA output is excellent with a 1:1 mapping on my screen.

Thanks. Does my video card need to be able to output 720p? I seem to only be able to do 4:3 ratios, up to 1600x1200, with 1024x768 seeming to work the best.

Originally posted by essej
First try reducing the Contrast (if you haven't already). It comes from the factory maxed out, and this is the setting that affects white crush.
The settings from umr are very close to my own (on a 52525), and my contrast is generally set at 41, and brightness set to 40. YMMV, but I recommended trying out the DVE or AVIA calibration discs to get your set in the ballpark. Or you could just use umr's posted values as a starting point.

My settings are at what umr posted the other day. I will tinker with Contrast some more during tonight's game. I also plan to get AVIA soon. How about others with this set...Do you notice the "glowing" white jerseys during the game?

Originally posted by MadsenD
I posted some powerstrip timings that have worked for several people to get 1:1 720p mappings.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=454127

They may work for you too. The VGA output is excellent with a 1:1 mapping on my screen.


I have 1280 X 720 and your 1184 X 666 timings stored as user defined settings in Powerstrip. The latter is necessary to avoid overscan. My question is, are you get 1:1 mapping with 1184X666 resolution? I thought the whole idea of 1:1 was to send 1280X720. I guess I just don't completely understand. I was planning to switch to 1280X720 for dvd watching, only.

1:1 mapping is just referring to having one pixel element on the display showing one exact pixel element being generated by the video card.

you can get a 1:1 mapping at 1280x720 but like you said there is overscan so you cant see all those pixels. To alleviate this we use custom resolutions in windows which are still 1:1 mapped, but just have fewer pixels across and up and down so that the whole display fits within the viewable pixel area.

I hope that makes sense. As far as DVD's go I don't know that you really need to switch to the 1280x720 for viewing since the DVD resolution is only at 720x480 anyway so you are upscaling the video either way.

Originally posted by HDSapper
Thanks. Does my video card need to be able to output 720p? I seem to only be able to do 4:3 ratios, up to 1600x1200, with 1024x768 seeming to work the best.

Yes you will need to use a video card that is able to set custom resolutions or that already supports 1280x720 video resolution. Most ATI and Nvidia cards do support custom resolutions. By using a program called PowerStrip you can add a custom resolution of 1280x720 to your system as long as your video card and drivers support it.

Changing contrast will not get rid of white crush like I had on the set I was adjusting. You need to change the output level from the source to be within the signal range the TV is supporting if that is possible.

Well once again I lost my digital channels today. This time when I reset it, it seemed to get stuck in the "fast blinking light" mode. I poked the button again, and still the same result. I ended up unplugging it, and then it reset correctly, and he HD channels were back once I turned it back on.

I called the mits number in the manual, and then called a different number after following the menu prompts (an 866 number). I told them what was going on and then they told me that I should call the customer relations number (which I am OK with since I couldn't remember the number).

I will be calling tomorrow, but do you think they will send me a firmware update to try to fix it?

Thanks,
Jeff

I've had my 52525 for about 30 days now and so far, I'm very happy with this set. Last night and tonight, I've been watching Fox's HD broadcast of the MLB LCS and I've noticed when they are showing the typical shot from center field as the pitcher is delivering, I see in the background grass behind and to the sides of the plate area, a "flickering" of patches of grass being in and out of focus. Anyone else experiencing this and what can I do to correct this rather small detail. I have not seen this flaw when I've watched MNF in HD - the picture during the broadcast is wonderful! So far, I've tried Video Noise reduction and turned off the DefineEdge with no improvement.

Hi All,

This forum was one of the main reasons I ended up going with a Mits 52525 dlp. Had it for 5 days now, and I must say that I'm quite impressed in most respects--especially HD channels, and DVDs that have high quality encoding. Gamecube has been fun too. Looking forward to getting netcommand working correctly, and seeing what the PC looks like hooked up to it.

I have one problem that could be a deal breaker, however. I have noticed some macroblocking (pixelization ?) on the local PBS HD station involving fast moving 'busy' scenes--especially those displaying lots of water, fire, or in one case a bunch of small fish. I haven't noticed this as much on other broadcast stations yet.

So, from reading many previous posts here it seems that there are 3 things could cause this effect:

1. The macroblocking is due to PBS compressing their signal too much to carry enough information in these busy scenes.
2. The macroblocking is due to my reception of the signal being 'borderline'.
3. The macroblocking is due to TVs conversion algorithm / processing not being efficient enough to handle the conversion of the 1080i feed to 720p during these fast scenes.

Hoping that it is #1 or #2, as I love the tv otherwise, but if it's #3 I may have to take it back and wait / go for something else.

Anybody have any experience / knowledge to pass on about this?

Thank you very much,
Matt

Originally posted by mafix
Hi All,

This forum was one of the main reasons I ended up going with a Mits 52525 dlp. Had it for 5 days now, and I must say that I'm quite impressed in most respects--especially HD channels, and DVDs that have high quality encoding. Gamecube has been fun too. Looking forward to getting netcommand working correctly, and seeing what the PC looks like hooked up to it.

I have one problem that could be a deal breaker, however. I have noticed some macroblocking (pixelization ?) on the local PBS HD station involving fast moving 'busy' scenes--especially those displaying lots of water, fire, or in one case a bunch of small fish. I haven't noticed this as much on other broadcast stations yet.

So, from reading many previous posts here it seems that there are 3 things could cause this effect:

1. The macroblocking is due to PBS compressing their signal too much to carry enough information in these busy scenes.
2. The macroblocking is due to my reception of the signal being 'borderline'.
3. The macroblocking is due to TVs conversion algorithm / processing not being efficient enough to handle the conversion of the 1080i feed to 720p during these fast scenes.

Hoping that it is #1 or #2, as I love the tv otherwise, but if it's #3 I may have to take it back and wait / go for something else.

Anybody have any experience / knowledge to pass on about this?

Thank you very much,
Matt

You might want to add one more option:

Option 1b. The macroblocking is due to the PBS station mulitcasting other streams (maybe an SD stream) and this reduces the available bandwidth even further.

Are they multicasting?

Does Mits tech provide ISF calibration? My grayscale is really off.

spiff72,

Thanks for the reply, and good point.

Yes I think they are multicasting. According to TitanTV, PBS has 2 digital channels (35-1 and 35-2), though I seem to only receive one of them. I believe their SD analog is on a different frequency. I wonder if I'm getting a combination of 1 / 1b, with a bit of option 2? :)

Originally posted by 2left
Couldn't find this issue on the various Mits threads. Using a direct cable input (I haven't tested with my CableCard yet), the audio and video some times go out of sync on both analog and HD channels. On some HD channels, I occasionally lose audio completely. So far, either changing the channels back and forth or powering off the tv has worked.

Mits tech support said there is no flash firmware upgrade available for my 62725, and they need to send a service tech. I said to hold off until I am able to videotape the occurence.

Anyone else have audio sync problems?

This problem is not unique to Mits. See this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4272474


Also, here is an informative article on the problem:

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsformats/AV_lip_sync_delay.html

Originally posted by mafix
spiff72,

Thanks for the reply, and good point.

Yes I think they are multicasting. According to TitanTV, PBS has 2 digital channels (35-1 and 35-2), though I seem to only receive one of them. I believe their SD analog is on a different frequency. I wonder if I'm getting a combination of 1 / 1b, with a bit of option 2? :)

I honestly don't think that a borderline signal would cause the macroblocking in motion scenes. Either you have the signal or you don't. Borderline reception would present itself as intermittent dropouts of video or freezes of the picture.

I don't usually put a whole lot of stock in the Titan TV listings. Are you sure you don't get the other SD channel? Can you punch in 35-2 and see what you get? The analog channel is always a different frequency than the digital, too, as far as I know.

One other thing, is 35 the frequency of the analog PBS channel? If so, you need to know what the actual frequency of the digital channel is, and punch in XX-2 (where XX is that digital freq.). The TV will remap it to the analog channel number once it tunes it for the first time.

Just my thoughts...

Here's a new topic that you'll all probably get a good laugh from....

Where in the world do you guys store the protective screen after you've removed it?

And what's the latest word on that snap-in border/frame that Mits was supposed to bring out? Anyone actually seen one or heard anything definitive yet?

Originally posted by mafix
I have noticed some macroblocking (pixelization ?) on the local PBS HD station involving fast moving 'busy' scenes--especially those displaying lots of water, fire, or in one case a bunch of small fish. I haven't noticed this as much on other broadcast stations yet. The fact that you don't see it on other stations suggests it originates from the PBS source, not the TV. I doubt it is your local PBS that is doing it... it's most likely caused by the MPEG encoder that digitized the image in the first place.

Originally posted by HTBruceM
Here's a new topic that you'll all probably get a good laugh from....

Where in the world do you guys store the protective screen after you've removed it?

And what's the latest word on that snap-in border/frame that Mits was supposed to bring out? Anyone actually seen one or heard anything definitive yet?

I wrapped mine (62") up in a king size waterbed sheet, and it is in the back of a spare bedroom closet. :) I think it is safe there.

New firmware arrived today.. (should be the .003). I had to basically tell Mits I had a bunch of tuner problems to get them to send the update. Even though that is stretching the truth just a bit. Good thing I know what problems are fixed by .003 (using this forum!) ;)

Apparently Mits' policy is to ONLY send you an update when you tell them you have a specific problem they know is addressed by the firmware update.


A note on the test patterns they've embedded in the firmware.... Curious that they're all 960x540, which is the obviously not the native 720 lines I expected to see - it's 540. Isn't this the native number of lines in an NTSC broadcast?

Originally posted by spiff72
I wrapped mine (62") up in a king size waterbed sheet, and it is in the back of a spare bedroom closet. :) I think it is safe there. Heh Heh :D
I keep asking myself... will I EVER use this thing? I'll never put it back on the TV... But I can't bring myself to get rid of it. In five years, it'll still be sitting there in the back of the closet along with my old bowling ball, tennis racket, and the suitcases.

Originally posted by spiff72
I honestly don't think that a borderline signal would cause the macroblocking in motion scenes. Either you have the signal or you don't. Borderline reception would present itself as intermittent dropouts of video or freezes of the picture.

I don't usually put a whole lot of stock in the Titan TV listings. Are you sure you don't get the other SD channel? Can you punch in 35-2 and see what you get? The analog channel is always a different frequency than the digital, too, as far as I know.

One other thing, is 35 the frequency of the analog PBS channel? If so, you need to know what the actual frequency of the digital channel is, and punch in XX-2 (where XX is that digital freq.). The TV will remap it to the analog channel number once it tunes it for the first time.

Just my thoughts...

I agree about the borderline signal, but the Mitsubishi tech on the phone said that it's a possibility. I don't know very much about the structure of hdtv broadcast, but would think that as you said it would be all or nothing.

I tried to punch in 35-2, but it just went back to 35-1, so maybe they are not multicasting, and TitanTV is inaccurate. According to antennaweb.org, this would seem to be the case. When I went to check, they were showing 'Niagra' with, of course, lots of water and the macroblocking was quite evident. Oh, and you're right--the analog signal is separate @32.

I guess this probably leaves me with the either the tv's 1080i->720p conversion being the problem, or PBS using too much compression.

Thanks,
Matt

In my experience with the set so far I have had no problems with the tv doing 1080i => 720p conversion. I really would suspect compression artifacts originating in the stream and not a problem with the TV itself. Watch some of the other stations. My local PBS doesn't have the highest quality broadcasts either. I have noticed superb picture quality off of the Discovery HD Theater which has plenty of water and landscape type scenery and I haven't seen this problem there.

During the olympic broadcasts this macroblocking was well evident in some of the high motion / water broadcasts and were actual compression artifacts in the stream verified by playing back the recorded stream on the computer and seeing the same thing.

Seems like at least a couple of people are just taking their screens off like I was thinking I would do.

Anybody else have any input to my questions about BestBuy service/return/warranty policies in the real world?

FYI - for UDM_terk - I forgot to mention that the BestBuy in my town just opened its' Magnolia section - so they do carry the 3910 now.

A sales rep where I just picked up my Paradigm Studio series speakers today said that many of his customers were very happy with their Panasonic DLP's. I have not checked into these units - any opinions vs the Mits??

Thanks,
Paul

Originally posted by coymacoy
This problem is not unique to Mits. See this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4272474


Also, here is an informative article on the problem:

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsformats/AV_lip_sync_delay.html

coymacoy - Thanks for the info. I guess I won't call tech support unless it becomes intolerable or the complete audio dropouts continue. It's interesting that turning the tv off and on solves the problem - essentially rebooting a computer I suppose.

Originally posted by HTBruceM
New firmware arrived today.. (should be the .003). I had to basically tell Mits I had a bunch of tuner problems to get them to send the update. Even though that is stretching the truth just a bit. Good thing I know what problems are fixed by .003 (using this forum!) ;)

Apparently Mits' policy is to ONLY send you an update when you tell them you have a specific problem they know is addressed by the firmware update.


A note on the test patterns they've embedded in the firmware.... Curious that they're all 960x540, which is the obviously not the native 720 lines I expected to see - it's 540. Isn't this the native number of lines in an NTSC broadcast?

Any suggestion on what to tell them about the tuner problems that I am having?? The first ones I talked to weren't aware of the loss of digital stations being addressed by firmware updates, but this wasn't the engineering group I was talking to...

Thanks,
Jeff

100 Pages!! Woohoo! :p

This is such a useful thread...I am glad it is here!

Jeff

Originally posted by spiff72
Any suggestion on what to tell them about the tuner problems that I am having?? The first ones I talked to weren't aware of the loss of digital stations being addressed by firmware updates, but this wasn't the engineering group I was talking to...

Thanks,
Jeff Well, basically what you told them is what I told them. Make sure you call the customer relations dept (the 949 number), and not the tech support. Last time I called the tech support 800/866 number, I got the runaround.

BTW, after brief testing this morning, it looks as if the 003 firmware now allows the set to remember your DefinEdge setting! Finally!

Now if we can only get the set to remember settings for firewire devices... :)

Originally posted by HTBruceM
Well, basically what you told them is what I told them. Make sure you call the customer relations dept (the 949 number), and not the tech support. Last time I called the tech support 800/866 number, I got the runaround.

Are they still requiring all the faxing hassles for the firmware, or do they just ship it now?

Originally posted by spiff72
Are they still requiring all the faxing hassles for the firmware, or do they just ship it now?

When I mentioned that I had reset issues, he didn't hesitate to send it to me. Though, I actually didn't have reset issues. A week later, I still didn't receive anything (so much for "overnighting"). So I called again and they said they'd ship out another one. In the end, I received two. Both had same file versions, BTW.

I offloaded it to my HD if anyone wants to save the effort of dealing with tech support. Looks like just a bunch of files on a CF, with no special file system format and no special name to the CF itself (each one had a different name).

Anyone have experience with using an XBOX on one of these Mits? I have my Xbox connected via component cables and it's in 480p mode. I have a BAD problem of shadowing. It seems even worse in 720p. If I put it in 480i or 720i the shadows go away.

I've tried using Monster Video 3 Component cables as well as Blue Jean component cables, both have the same problem.

I've tried turning off all the TV's video enhancements, turning sharpness to 0, turning perfect color off, turning down the contrast, etc. These things tone it down a bit, but the problem remains.

When I view my DVDs using 480p, there is no problem at all (using component).

Apparently the TV can handle a source of 480p just fine and the cables don't seem to be the problem either. Is it my Xbox? What are other people's experiences? Do people have Microsoft brand component adaptor, xbox monster components, or 3rd party?

Thanks!

I received my 62725 on Wed. Fantastic PQ, however there is a bright spot in the center 3/4 the way up the screen. It can easily be seen when the TV is off. When it is on it shows up in dark scenes. If you approach the TV and look down at it the spot is instantly visible. When I get back from vacation I will call the service department about this.

Originally posted by mundis
I received my 62725 on Wed. Fantastic PQ, however there is a bright spot in the center 3/4 the way up the screen. It can easily be seen when the TV is off. When it is on it shows up in dark scenes. If you approach the TV and look down at it the spot is instantly visible. When I get back from vacation I will call the service department about this.

hmmm... another one... I am currently working with Mitsubishi and my local service center to figure this out. I have sent mitsubishi pictures of the problem, and they are apparantly looking into it. Still have not heard anything beyond that.

Does it look like this for you:

reference the links I posted in this thread :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=455101&pagenumber=2

I've had my 62725 for a week now and no noticeable bright spot on screen, either off or on.

Originally posted by neoikon
Anyone have experience with using an XBOX on one of these Mits? I have my Xbox connected via component cables and it's in 480p mode. I have a BAD problem of shadowing. It seems even worse in 720p. If I put it in 480i or 720i the shadows go away.


Hi...I haven't hooked up my Xbox yet, but two guys that were on this thread (but may not be following it anymore), Reynard and chaslum, both have a great deal of experience, I believe. As you can see from the following post, Reynard's Xbox stuff looks fantastic!

Reynard's Pics (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4191973#post4191973)

If I can ever manage to score a Microsoft Hi-Def kit, I'll get mine going and try to remember to let you know how it goes....


Randy

Originally posted by UMD_Terp
hmmm... another one... I am currently working with Mitsubishi and my local service center to figure this out. I have sent mitsubishi pictures of the problem, and they are apparantly looking into it. Still have not heard anything beyond that.

I have the 52525 and have this spot also. This is my third set and didn't notice it on the others. Keep us posted on the outcome. I'm tired of returning sets! :(

Originally posted by MATTZS
I have the 52525 and have this spot also. This is my third set and didn't notice it on the others. Keep us posted on the outcome. I'm tired of returning sets! :(

as soon as I find anything out, I'll post it here. Other than this, I have no issues with the set.

For anyone that has this problem, please e-mail mitsubishi about it or call customer service. That will help them figure out what the issue is. Everyone needs to let them know...

My wife and I have the 52525 and I'm happy to report that we DON'T have this spot issue. We've had our set 30 days now and are very pleased with it! I'm curious though about FOX network's OTA HD. When watching the MLB playoffs in HD, I see mometary flashes of distortation in various patches of grass and dirt. It's most apparent during the shot from center field as the pitcher is delivering. All my other OTA HD channels seem flawless at this point. Has anyone noticed a similar flaw when watching FOX HD?

FOX's HD isn't the best out there currently. ESPN, CBS, and ABC seem to always look the best. I think since FOX HD is a new thing, they still have room for improvement.

Originally posted by IFLYSWA
Hi...I haven't hooked up my Xbox yet, but two guys that were on this thread (but may not be following it anymore), Reynard and chaslum, both have a great deal of experience, I believe. As you can see from the following post, Reynard's Xbox stuff looks fantastic!

Reynard's Pics (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4191973#post4191973)

If I can ever manage to score a Microsoft Hi-Def kit, I'll get mine going and try to remember to let you know how it goes....

Randy

Wow, those pics look hype! That's how I want mine to look, damnit! ;)

I can't find a Microsoft HD pack for the life of me. It's always out of stock. I was forced to buy a 3rd party cheapo through eBay. I'm probably going to end up paying the $100 for the Xbox monster cables (with optical addition). What a rip!

Thanks for the info!

neoikon

Originally posted by UMD_Terp
I needed the .02 firmware to get music channels to work with my Motorola cablecard. Scientific Atlanta cards seem to have issues so you may have problems with it if you have one even with new firmware.

I installed a firmware upgrade about 1 month ago. I'm not sure if it was .01 or .02. I just called Mits. Customer Service and they said my problem would not be addressed/fixed by a firmware update. Of course, the CS rep. also said he had never heard of the problem and I know I'm not the first person to experience it. He said it sounds like a cable company problem. The cable company said it is a Mitsubishi TV problem. I guess I can get a cable box or stick with the cable card and do without the music. Any other suggestions?:(

UMD_Terp-- The spot looks similar to yours except it is located at the top of the screen (about 3/4 up from the bottom). There are no colors present in this spot but it shows up no matter what source on or off. It might however be a window that is uncovered about 18 feet up. Tonight I plan on checking when it's completely dark. I'm leaving on vacation tomorrow so this issue will remain unsolved until I return.

Originally posted by mundis
UMD_Terp-- The spot looks similar to yours except it is located at the top of the screen (about 3/4 up from the bottom). There are no colors present in this spot but it shows up no matter what source on or off. It might however be a window that is uncovered about 18 feet up. Tonight I plan on checking when it's completely dark. I'm leaving on vacation tomorrow so this issue will remain unsolved until I return.

My money is on the window theory. (TV on or off is the giveaway).
:D