I was at a local AV dealer here in San Antonio today looking at all the goodies. What I REALLY wanted to see were the new Mitsubishi DLP sets. The Mits rep was there, & I picked his brain for about an hour. Very informative. He said they were already on the road to the dealers! This is excellent news! These sets are 52 & 62", HD2+, 7 segment, HDMI, 3 Firewire, VGA, integrated ATSC & Qam HD tuners, CableCard, media card reader. and BOTTOM MOUNTED SPEAKERS. He said the 525 series 52" will be for sale next week, with the 525 series 62" 3 weeks after. The 52" Medallion 725 series 2-3 weeks later, followed by the 62" (the one I'm waiting for). These new DLPs were available for a sneak peek recently in SoCal at a Dealer meeting. He also said that these sets KILL all other DLP's released so far. He was very quick to point out the shortcomings of their Alpha set, as well as their older DLPs. He mantioned a segment of grey being added, vastly improving black level. I can't wait (but WILL)! If anyone gets any news on these sets, post it here. :D

I also want to see the Medallion 725 series in 62" I have a HLP6163 on pre-order, so I hope to see the Mits before I commit to the Samsung 61" Does the Mits have the HD2+ ??? Does the Mits have 2 digital inputs ??? The Medallion 725 is one of the coolest looking sets I have seen to date (photo only) and with speakers on the bottom, perfect! I just hope the PQ is excellent.

Joe V.

One more thing what is the CR rated at?

Joe V.

ALL the Mitsu's have HD2+, 2500-1 CR. It has 4 digital inputs, 1 HDMI, 3 Firewire (IEE1394, I-Link). It also has 3 component inputs.

samsung makes a nice set... but like a lot of other people... i want a hd2+ tv NOW. my local tweeters will have demos in store in 2 weeks. if these other OEMs step up and release some hot looking stuff, bye bye samsung. they are taking way to long to release their hd2+ products in my opinion. i'd rather wait 2 weeks for mits then 2 months for samsung... and i'm sure samsungs looked no better then a mits.

any info on price?

$4K for 52" 525 is what i hear... of course most new stuff isn't discounted but i'm sure that will come down. the one bad thing about getting the latest/greatest on the market is... it's expensive

Originally posted by UMD_Terp
any info on price?

$3900 for the 52525, $4100 for the 52725(medallion). $4500/$4800 for the 62". Those aren't MSRP's, just prices I have seen on e-tailers.

The only difference that I know of for the medallions are the TV Guide on-screen, and the anti-glare shield. Is the shield going to be removable?

Originally posted by Patrick TX
ALL the Mitsu's have HD2+, 2500-1 CR. It has 4 digital inputs, 1 HDMI, 3 Firewire (IEE1394, I-Link). It also has 3 component inputs.

When you said 4 digital inputs? How would you hook up lets say a Samsung 941 with HDMI and a Dish 811 Sat receiver with a DVI output? How do you see 4 digital inputs, I only see 1 (HDMI) is the 3 component inputs considered digital?

Joe V.

no ,
3 inouts are for ieee1394.
mits uses this connection for there vcrs and camcorders as well as there hd5000 scaler/controller.

What about the Diamond line? I keep hearing about the Medallion, but nothing so far about the Diamonds.

This is getting good with all the competition!

The only downside to these when compared to the Samsung models is the lack of an additional HDMI/DVi input... it would be nice to have an extra one, but these sets do have 3 firewire hookups...

I am very much interested in the 52" sets... The 525 would probably be fine, but I wonder how much difference the anti-glare screen on the 725 would make.

Diamond 825 model will have a 120 GB HD and PVR functionality plus a different anti-glare screen on top of the Medallion series.

Can you remove the screen??

The Mitsu CRT's have removable screens. Does anyone here know of DLP screen removal, or is this a no-no?

Can you remove the screen??

I asked the same question to the rep. He says they can be removed, but there will be open slots in the bezel where the screen clipped in. He said they were working on a frame that clips into the holes for those that don't want to run shields. As far as ONLY having 1 HDMI, that should be ok. I looked at a DVR today with Firewire, and the cable companies are supposed to already have it on the new boxes. I'd rather have HDMI AND Firewire than 2 HDMI only.

There is a local Big Screen Store here that exclusively sells Mitsubishi sets... I think I will check them out to see what they say about these new DLPs and their availability... :D

Cool, let us know what they say. I forgot to mention this. I asked the Rep if the black panel inder the screen on the Medallion was cloth or fabric (it looks kind of like that). Yes, it is. He did say it looked really good, but I guess we'll have to see. That may possibly force my hand to a 525 series.

will do... they are 15 minutes from my office... My dad bought a Mitsubishi Diamond CRT from there last year... he got same as cash financing for 2 years and his buying experience was good...

Not sure if this was already posted, but here is a location of to the brochure on the new Mits DLP. (Can't post a link as I am a new poster - sorry). Looks good. Also has a back panel layout.

(www).gwinnetttv.com/video/tvs/bigscreen_tvs/mitsubishi/MITSUBISHI_DLP/725_2004_ProductSheets.pdf

I sure would like to see one in person.

According to this (a couple of months old), it looks like the MSRPs will be as follows:

525 Series - 4,200 (52) / 5,000 (62)
725 Medallion Series - 4,500 / 5,300
825 Diamond Series - 5,500 / 6,300

http://www.twice.com/article/CA414594.html?display=News

Like everyone, will be waiting to hear about the picture on these sets.
Have a question
Since the 825 series will have a PVR I assume you can record OTA HD thru its internal tuner. IF you have DTV inputting into the set will it be able to record DTV HD programming as well, or would it need an internal Diredtv tuner
Thanks in advance
Michael

I don't think i've seen this posted, but some pictures and details are available through this spec sheet:

http://www.mitsubishielectric.com/news/news_pdfs/MitsSpecSheets4-04.pdf

525 Series: Page 9 & 10
725 medallion: pages 11 & 12

I wonder if the screen on the 725 series will have much of an impact on the picture. If not, I'm most interested in the 525 series. The anti-glare screens on the Samsungs are nice but I think it takes a little "punch" out of the picture. Let's not forget to mention that the Mitsubishi brochure is showing that these sets have a VGA input which is nice for PC users. My future TV purchases hope is in the Mitsubishi DLPs now. The brochure also says that all inputs will be converted to 720p! Hopefully we'll see these sets soon!

I am going to Harvey Electronics in Manhattan tomorrow and I will inquire and let everyone know. I too am waiting for the HD2+. I suspect that Samsung might have miscalculated about the need for the cablecard because in earlier postings I read that that's why it's taking so much longer for their sets to come out-- they are integrating the CC. I know that no one has seen the Mits but it is really exciting for the new technology to be on the brink of arrival. I don't think the higher end Mits, i.e. with the built-in DVR, is on the same schedule as the 62525 and the 52525. I think it may arrive later.

I was in the Princeton NJ Tweeter on Tuesday and they had no idea what I was talking about (new Mits units). They had one HLP and it was not even up and running.

Their diamond line has a large 70" LCOS 1920x1080. Has anyone seen that yet?

Originally posted by MaxC
Their diamond line has a large 70" LCOS 1920x1080. Has anyone seen that yet?
That's news to me. I've seen their Alpha 82" LCoS which the rep seemed to say needed improvement.

Yeah...it's an 82" LCOS. I saw it on display at Paul's TV last weekend. The size alone is awesome to behold. They were playing an animated feed on it (fish, like an aquarium), so I can't really judge the PQ. It looked great from what I saw.

The diamond line is typically months later than the others. So, we'll see the 525's in a week or two, the 725's a few weeks after, and I would guess the Diamonds should be out by late September/early October. But, I won't wait that long...$5k is a bit pricey for me for a 52" anyhow.

are the screens on the 525/725/825 interchangeable... I think I would be fine with the 525 considering I don't really want the TV guide functionality, but the anti-glare screen is something to maybe consider...

Originally posted by htwaits
That's news to me. I've seen their Alpha 82" LCoS which the rep seemed to say needed improvement.

Maybe that is what it was....I have at Mitsubishi Diamond 2004 catalog, so I will have to go back and look at it. Do you remember exactly what the rep said needed improvement? I would assume contrast ratio?

Check the first message in this thread.

When I've seen the Alpha the images looked flat and lacking in contrast. So many variables go into that impression that's probable that I didn't see the Alpa (three different units) at it's best.

I heard that the 52525 was expected to hit PC Richards wharehouse today...........and the msrp is around $4k and the 52725 is expected on Aug 10th, and several hundred more....

My local Mitsu dealer is getting a 52525 in tomorrow & I'll be going to check it out.

I've been pouring over the forum for the last 2 weeks trying to decide...LCD or DLP RPT...my head hurts! ;) It's finally time to go out and make a decision.

I'm definitely glad that Samsung isn't the only (DLP) player on the block now though.

Originally posted by Reynard
My local Mitsu dealer is getting a 52525 in tomorrow & I'll be going to check it out.
Which dealer is that?

wondering how much difference there is between the Medallion and Diamond? I really don't need the PVR since I have DirecTV and plan on getting the HD TiVo.

If the picture is the same.... I'll go with the Medallion...

I think all three would have the same picture since they all share the same engine... only differences between them are the anti-glare screens they come with and, like you mentioned, the PVR in the Diamond and the programming Guide in the medallion.

My local Mitsu dealer is getting a 52525 in tomorrow & I'll be going to check it out.

Man, this is GREAT NEWS! There are a lot of "discriminating eyes" in the Bay area. I am anxious to HEAR what they SEE. My dealer knows nothing at this point. Just waiting. I looked at the HLN, HLP, Loewe, RCA, LG, and the Vinc all today. I cannot be happy with any of those, 1 because I need a 60" or bigger, 2 because they just didn't do it for me. The best set I saw was a Mits WS-65813 & a Sony 70" XBR. My fingers are crossed on these HD2+ sets (or the D-ILA). Let us know how it looks!

Originally posted by htwaits
Which dealer is that?

Anderson's in Redwood City. I'm going down after work, 'round 7pm. You should come up! I could use someone like you to offer some tutelage. :cool:

Originally posted by Reynard
Anderson's in Redwood City. I'm going down after work, 'round 7pm. You should come up! I could use someone like you to offer some tutelage. :cool:
I would like to but I can't make it tomorrow evening.

Be sure to ask them how they have the TV connected. When I went there to see the Loewe they had it connected to a loop with either composite or S-Video. They also had a component connection for a DVD player so we used that.

That was about two months ago and they said they didn't carry a DVI/HDMI enabled DVD player. You may want to take a couple of DVDs along.

Have a good time. :)

Please don't force them to sell you the demo. :(

No worries. I'm not usually that impulsive. ;)

Besides, I've always been a staunch Toshiba buyer and I 'd really like to be able to have a good comparison between their new DLP's, this Mitsu & an HLP Sammy.

Are you going to try to see both the HLPxx63 and the HLPxx77 models?

Well, I struck out at Harvey Electronics in NYC. They do not even have it in their computer. If anyone hears of the Mits 525 being carried in the NYC or LI area, please post!

I'm now wondering if the Mits has an 8 segment color wheel. The Rep told me that they added an additional segment (gray) to improve black levels. I'm now seeing that Panasonic is advertising an 8 segment wheel for their new HD2+ DLP. This is getting good!
http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=F&storeId=11251&catalogId=11005&itemId=71471&catGroupId=11072&modelNo=PT-60DL54&surfModel=PT-60DL54&ignoreRedirect=1

Are the panny DLP's w/ HD 2+ out yet??

toshiba, samsung, panasonic, & mitsubishi?!? This is very interesting....

New Panny's not out yet. Mits is only one that I heard was imminent- like within days, almost available.

Originally posted by htwaits
Are you going to try to see both the HLPxx63 and the HLPxx77 models?

Just the 63's. I don't think I can wait long enough to see the 77's. I really want a new tv in July. Which also means I might not be able to wait to see the Toshiba's either. :( We'll see...

After hearing about some of the Toshiba customer service / repair horror stories, I'm officially out on the Toshiba. They don't seem real "customer friendly" IMO. I'm holding out for a Mits, Panny, or JVC D-ILA. I am going nuts waiting on these things!

Just came back from the largest Mitsubishi TV dealer in the area, they told me they would have a 525 series in 2 weeks, the 725 series in 4 weeks, I am interested in the 62" 725 and he gave me a price of $4399 he said the MSRP is $5600. He also carries the Samsung dlp line and said the build quality and PQ of the Samsung was know match for the Mits. Guess I will have to wait and see. I have a Samsung HLP6163 on order just in case.

Joe V.

Well, I just came back from 90 minutes at the largest Mitsubishi dealer in the country (Paul's TV in La Habra, CA - "I AM the king!"). And, since I spent the entire time watching the 525 and comparing, here is my report:


First of all some information - the 52525 is (obviously) available now. I don't think I can list the Paul's price here...but, lets say it is right around the $4k point we've been discussing. The 62" will be out next week.

This is the FIRST AVAILABLE HD2+ DLP set. It uses the HD2+ chip, a 7 segment wheel, and a "proprietary" Mitsubishi light engine.

Now for some viewing facts...
I was able to watch SD through an S-Video feed, a 480p progressive feed from a progressive DVD player through component, and a HDTV 1080i feed through component (scaled to 720p by the TV).

I compared all three feeds and PQ to the 55813 Diamond Series CRT RPTV and to the PD-5030 plasma TV. Side-by-side-by-side, sitting 8-10' away.

Initial impressions of the HD2+:
This is what you've all been waiting for. Heck, it's what I've been waiting for!! But, I can sum it up quickly: LOWER YOUR EXPECTATIONS NOW!

The HD2+ is great looking, but it is no miracle chip. The contrast superiority is noticeable - it has that patented DLP 3-d feeling of depth to the picture (well, at least with HDTV). It IS a bit brighter and sharper than the Sammy HLN with HD2 (and, obviously, much sharper than the HD3 HLP's), but not a LOT more. But, improved contrast, black level, shadow detail are only slightly improved. Just, don't go in expecting the 2nd coming, or you will wonder what all the hype has been about. It looks better...just not amazingly so.

It IS much sharper and better looking, with deeper blacks, than the plasma. MUCH more. I think the picture clearly tops LCD/Plasma (there was a Panny LCD behind me to glance at).

I noticed no rainbows...and I waggled and shook the hell out of my head.

AND, the dithering is MUCH more improved over the HLP's, and especially the HLN's. Some dithering still remains during fast movement (saw it during some soccer footage), but this is the area of most improvement (other than blacks/contrast).

Screen door? Not in HDTV...but, lesser inputs had noticeable pixelation...let's get to that...

The PQ for SD:
The 55813 wins this category hands down. I know all 3 TV's have the "AVMP" Mitsubishi engine to help with SD transfer, but only the CRT RPTV looked halfway decent. There was SO much pixelization on the SD pic for the 52525, that I flat out said, "I don't think I can watch regular TV on this set."

The PQ on DVD:
This is where I'm most interested, since I watch about 65% DVD on my set. I played PotC, Open Range, and RotK, checking multiple scenes for color, greys, blacks, CR, brightness, etc.

The colors are very nice, though (as I said) I am not blown away. The depth of the CR and blacks are noticeable. Being a person who prefers a more "filmlike" look, I still prefer the 55813, but it lacks the depth of the HD2+. Video games probably look AWESOME on the HD2+.

Here's the big problem, and it is likely a Mitsubishi thing, not HD2+: LOTS of pixelization. The 55813 picture is sharp AND smooth. The plasma screen is smooth, but lacks the sharpness, depth, or strong blacks of either of the other TV's. The 52525 is sharp and deep, but VERY rough. I tried turning progressive scan off, but it made little difference. Lots of artifacts clearly visible and disappointing. I would suggest someone view a 720p digital feed through the HDMI port and report back. I'd be anxious to see what that looks like. I suspect, it will look MUCH better. But, bottom line, until I see what it looks like, I will not buy this TV. Someone could even take a look at a 1080i component feed from a DVD player. It's possible that downconverting would look better. But, I think I am confident in saying that upconverting to 720p looks crappy. Again, for DVD viewing (until I see a pure 720p feed on the HDMI input), I would pick the 55813.


HDTV:
VERY nice. This is where the TV shines. This is where you really see the depth and sharpness. Excellent picture, and next to the plasma? It put the plasma to shame. So much more vivid, sharp, deep. It really does feel 3-D. The 55813 does quite well too...but, again, it is more "filmlike" - lacking that DLP depth/3-D quality.

So, there you have it. I'm sure we'll see many more reviews and opinions, but that's mine for now.

I, for one, have two things I now MUST view - the JVC DILA set, and I have to see a 720p digital feed into this set to see if DVD can look better.

A few notes:
The screen sucks. It catches everything - any light around is reflected. You'll want to remove the screen or get a better model with an anti-glare screen.

The rep said the Diamond 52825's will be in by the end of the month! Medallions coming at the same time.

Thanks for the review, great to finally here an actual sighting of one of these.

Originally posted by QuentinH
The PQ for SD:
The 55813 wins this category hands down. I know all 3 TV's have the "AVMP" Mitsubishi engine to help with SD transfer, but only the CRT RPTV looked halfway decent. There was SO much pixelization on the SD pic for the 52525, that I flat out said, "I don't think I can watch regular TV on this set."

The PQ on DVD:
This is where I'm most interested, since I watch about 65% DVD on my set. I played PotC, Open Range, and RotK, checking multiple scenes for color, greys, blacks, CR, brightness, etc.

The colors are very nice, though (as I said) I am not blown away. The depth of the CR and blacks are noticeable. Being a person who prefers a more "filmlike" look, I still prefer the 55813, but it lacks the depth of the HD2+. Video games probably look AWESOME on the HD2+. The 55813 uses AMVP which upconverts 480i to 480p. The DLP set uses AMVP2 which upconverts 480i to the native HD rate of the display (720p in this case). The 55813 also supports native 480p display. Therefore I am not surprised that the Diamond CRT outperforms the DLP in regards to SDTV and DVD. Mits CRTs simply can't be beat when it comes to DVD (until the 2005 sets where they throw away the 480p native support :().

It will be interesting to see how the Mits compares to the forthcoming Sammy, Panny, and Tosh DLPs.

Wow, FINALLY someone has seen one! Thanks for the excellent review. I am interested to know how it handles a 720P signal, either STB or DVD. How was the build quality in your opinion compared to other manufacturers? Is the screen a glossy reflective type, or a matte type? Did you monkey around in the user menu at all? Thanks for the reports!

Originally posted by Patrick TX
Wow, FINALLY someone has seen one! Thanks for the excellent review. I am interested to know how it handles a 720P signal, either STB or DVD. How was the build quality in your opinion compared to other manufacturers? Is the screen a glossy reflective type, or a matte type? Did you monkey around in the user menu at all? Thanks for the reports!

The screen (see the bottom of my review) stinks. It's glossy and very reflective. Hopefully, the anti-glare is tons better.

The overall build is very sexy. Good looking set. And the bezel on the screen is not thin...it's about 1" wide. The screen is also removable, but if you remove it, there will be a "groove" visible on both sides of the set.

I did screw with the menu a LOT. Mitsu has the multi-color menu that you can use to play with 6 colors...and, of course, I monkeyed with the contrast, brightness, sharpness a lot. I didn't mention it, because I'm no ISF calibrationist, I was simply adjusting to what looked best to my eyes. Other viewers will differ.

Thanks for the info. It's encouraging to hear that some new dlps are finally arriving.

You mentioned that SD was quite bad on the mit dlp. Do you have any sense as to how it would have fared against either the Sammy HLN (w/the HD2) or HLP (w/the HD3)? I know it may be difficult to say, if you didn't do a direct comparison.

I'd say the HLP is better...but you'll see artifacts there as well. It's "softened" look can help SD.

I've never seen the HLN for SDTV.

I'm not really concerned with using any other connection other than component or DVI (HDMI). I don't even own an S-Video cable anymore. I guess people with Dish may need it though.

Saw the 52525 at Andersons in Sunnyvale this PM.

THE show-stopper for me is the reflections... glare is horrible.

Pixelation is much more noticable than I ever recall on Sammy HLN or HLP and much worse than the Loewe on display (which is wayyy tooo $$$). Was watching HD discovery @ D*V and one other D*V channel. Signal is distributed throughout the store so possibly some degratation from that. Not sure what input being used.

I asked 2 sales types if any of the FireWire connections would output a signal to allow recording... neither knew, one was smart enough to say so, the other started BS'ing... I would like to know what is possible... any experts out there?

No other DLPs there.
No LCOS either.

Originally posted by jaime2221
Saw the 52525 at Andersons in Sunnyvale this PM.

THE show-stopper for me is the reflections... glare is horrible.

Pixelation is much more noticable than I ever recall on Sammy HLN or HLP and much worse than the Loewe on display (which is wayyy tooo $$$). Was watching HD discovery @ D*V and one other D*V channel. Signal is distributed throughout the store so possibly some degratation from that. Not sure what input being used.

I asked 2 sales types if any of the FireWire connections would output a signal to allow recording... neither knew, one was smart enough to say so, the other started BS'ing... I would like to know what is possible... any experts out there?

No other DLPs there.
No LCOS either.

What street is the Sunnyvale Anderson located on, I want to go and check it out?

QuentinH,

Awesome review!

I think you're the first to actually see the HD2+ chip in a store!

After your review, I'm leaning back toward the Samsung HLP series again.

My Sound Advice is due to have a Mits DLP (52525) next week as well. I'm going to have my Salesman set it up side by side with the HLP-5063W to do a comparison as well.

The artifacts and glare are pretty disappointing. I've noticed this a lot on Samsung's Plasmas. Hopefully they're due to Mits. first attempt at a DLP and not an inherent problem with the HD2+ chip.

Originally posted by MarkMSM
QuentinH,

Awesome review!

I think you're the first to actually see the HD2+ chip in a store!

After your review, I'm leaning back toward the Samsung HLP series again.

My Sound Advice is due to have a Mits DLP (52525) next week as well. I'm going to have my Salesman's set it up side by side with the HLP-5063W to do a comparison as well.

The artifacts are pretty disappointing. I've noticed this a lot on Samsung's Plasmas. Hopefully there due to Mits. first attempt at a DLP and not an inherent problem with the HD2+ chip.

See the set for yourself, don't let one review keep from having an open mind and making a hasty decision.

I personally think the artifacting is what you get when you have a native 720p (or 770p, or whatever) digital TV. Basically, if you're going thru a component input, with a 480p or 480i feed, you're going to get artifacting - I don't care if it's the HLP, HLN, or the Mits. None of them have scalers capable of upconverting well enough.

I REALLY want to see my Momitsu hooked up to one of these TV's, set to 720p output. But, I haven't found a store yet that has any of the top DVI DVD players hooked up to their DLP sets. I'd even settle for seeing the Sammy 931 hooked up!

Originally posted by QuentinH
I REALLY want to see my Momitsu hooked up to one of these TV's, set to 720p output. But, I haven't found a store yet that has any of the top DVI DVD players hooked up to their DLP sets. I'd even settle for seeing the Sammy 931 hooked up!
Take your DVD player in and have them hook it up. Don't forget to bring your own DVI cable. Sometimes big Mitsubishi dealers (and others) are clueless about DVI or HDMI.

Originally posted by htwaits
Take your DVD player in and hook have them hook it up. Don't forget to bring your own DVI cable. Sometimes big Mitsubishi dealers (and others) are clueless about DVI or HDMI.

When I'm close to buying...I'll probably find a store with both this TV and the JVC DILA and take my my Momitsu in. I'm just not going to go thru the hassle now.

You had better get an HDMI adapter as well :)

Originally posted by Auditor55
What street is the Sunnyvale Anderson located on, I want to go and check it out?

On Stevens Creek, at Lawrence Expy, NE corner.
Post your thoughts please.

Originally posted by QuentinH
The screen (see the bottom of my review) stinks. It's glossy and very reflective. Hopefully, the anti-glare is tons better.

The overall build is very sexy. Good looking set. And the bezel on the screen is not thin...it's about 1" wide. The screen is also removable, but if you remove it, there will be a "groove" visible on both sides of the set. Assuming the removable screen design is similar to past CRT models, you replace the clips after removing the screen. Therefore the "groove" is not visible. The beauty of the Mits design is that the screen can be removed and reattached so easily. This way you can put the screen on when there are bad kids around (like I do). The best PQ is achieved without the glare screen.

I actually saw the WD52525 tonight and was quite impressed with the black levels and overall picture quality. I did notice however that the protective screen is too reflective for my needs and am waiting to check out the WD52725.

I have a Sony 50 inch LCD for now (just bought it a few days ago) but waiting to hear back from the dealer on the release of the Medallion series with the non reflective screen.

This may be the set I have been waiting for.....

Well I spent almost 2 hours with the 52525 tonight. It was quite pleasurable. :D

I can agree with most of QuentinH's review. The big difference though would be the SDTV viewing. I was comparing this tv in house to a 50" GWIII LCD RPT, a 42" ED Panny Plasma, the 50" Panny LCD RPT & a Mitsu CRT RPT.

In my case the older Mitsu was the only one of the bunch that I would say was unwatchable for SDTV, while the rest were fine, certainly not as good as my current boob tube, a Toshiba CN36Z71 but certainly not unwatchable in my eyes.

Why is this? You folks can probably guess better then I. Perhaps the lens' were in dire need of calibration? Regardless of the other four, the Mitsu DLP was still the best in my eyes and this is "out of the box" setting wise. Matter of fact when we moved on to HDTV and finally DVD, it always looked best to me with the Sony second and the Pannys lacking. I then went into the settings of the Mitsu and starting playing. I liked the Netcommand and tuning options & am sure that a weekend with an Avia disc would be most rewarding and what tv isn't that the case with? ;)

I should mention that all the tv's were hooked up with Component cables & were using a DirectTV feed. I never saw any rainbows or dithering but I'm sure I'm not the videophile alot of you are. That said I've never taken any of my past audio/video purchases lightly. I only wish I could have it and the HLP right next to each other to directly compare them as I don't remember really noticing them on it either. Maybe the slightest of rainbow. The contrast and blacks all looked great. I wasn't having an issue with screen glare but the showroom wasn't a typical bright lit one a la Best Buy etc. either. Besides, I just ordered some nice new dark blue blinds for the cave...erm...uh, I mean living room, last week. :D

I should state that my new tv priorities might differ from most of you, not sure. It will see a lot of SDTV with a smattering of HDTV. DVDs will be the least viewed medium and it must be a great monitor for gaming, both console & PC. To that end tvs with great connectivity are paramount to me. This one has that;

2 - RF inputs
1 - Cablecard slot
1 - Compostite
3 - S-Video
2 - Component
1 - DTV
1 - VGA
3 - Firewire
1 - HDMI
4 or 5 - Memory card slots of various sizes


I luv that! :D

QuentinH mentioned that those of you with HLN's won't be blown away with this set. Hell, I'm not even blown away with it compared to my Toshiba. Least not in the this tv looks $3000 better then my tube way. None of the current crop of HDTVs do that for me. Yet I know in time it will prove it's true worth. More subjectively would be the design appearance of the set. I really like the Mitsu & the Sammy. Both are very handsome IMO and the lower mounted speakers cannot be ignored. The Sony isn't at all appealing to my eyes while the Panny is downright awful looking. This will be a BIG piece of furniture in my apt. and silver painted plastic...you can keep it! :eek:

So the tv performed perfectly fine to me, how about the salesman then? Having worked in retail myself for the better part of the last 17 years, this can make or break it for myself. I can't stand pushy, arrogant, sycophantic salespeople who DON'T LISTEN TO ME or answer my questions honestly.

I'm happy to say this most definitely wasn't the case for me. He left me alone with the tv plenty. We learned about it together. He asked me questions & valued my opinion enough to ask for it when talking to other customers. He liked an analogy I made about bulb replacement (which by the way is covered for the first year by Mitsubishi) so much, he asked if he could use it with future customers. :o

In other words, he showed me respect. I cannot underestimate how important that is to me when making a purchase or future ones of course. So no surprise after tonight I'm leaning strongly towards this tv. I value Mitsubishi's reputation for quality. My first tv was a Mitsu and I never had a problem with it or my two subsequent Toshibas. It didn't hurt that I was offered very nice deal that in effect just about nullifies the price advantage the 50" HLP had either. ;)

So tomorrow I'm going back out to look at the Sammys again & then back down to see the Mitsu, this time with my Xbox in tow. The final test if you will. :D Today one of my co-workers confirmed that they would by my Toshiba & the entertainment center it's in so it's time to make a deal!

Of course I'll keep you all appraised for what it's worth. :)

If anyone goes to a Mits dealer please ask if the Medallion 725 series has a black cloth or plastic speaker cover. I hope it is not cloth! Looking forward to more sightings and opinions from the forum on the new Mits DLP's...Thanks....Joe V.

If you're a heavy vid gamer (Reynard...this is for you), then I would think the HD2+ is the perfect chip for you.

With deep blacks and high contrast, this will really add some extra ooomph to your gaming experience.

If anyone goes to a Mits dealer please ask if the Medallion 725 series has a black cloth or plastic speaker cover. I hope it is not cloth!

Read this thread, it's been covered.

Originally posted by Patrick TX
Read this thread, it's been covered.

You got to be kidding CLOTH what a let down almost as bad as side speakers. I have to see these Mits and make my own conclusion as to stay with the HLP6163 power buy or pay the extra for the Mits. Really like the Medallion 725 62" looks good in the brochure, just need to see it in person.

Joe V.

This tread has been added to the "Popular Tread" Post.

Originally posted by jwv651
You got to be kidding CLOTH what a let down almost as bad as side speakers. I have to see these Mits and make my own conclusion as to stay with the HLP6163 power buy or pay the extra for the Mits. Really like the Medallion 725 62" looks good in the brochure, just need to see it in person.

Joe V.

Joe,
what is your concern with the speaker cover material???

My only concern is the way that black cloth collects dust. If I had Cats, I would be concerned as well. Cloth on TV's is rather throwback. But hey, retro is in.

Cloth does look like a throw back and yes they do collect dust on my Mits 50" just would like the covers to look similar to the outer edge of the screen. I can live with it if the PQ is awesome. I plan on buying a Mits 725 62" if it looks better than the HD3 Samsung. We will see!

Joe V.

Kipp Jones,
Shouldn't we be getting ready for the Cubs Sox game!

Joe V.

Our local Mitsubishi Dealer will have the new 525 by mid-July as I have heard... If the screen is really that bad, I will go for the 52" 725... but I think the 525 would be more than suitable for my needs :D

Great info on that review...just what I've been waiting for! I'm not in a hurry to buy until football season is here, so I can hold off and see how all these new sets shake out.

One thing... does the Mits have room on top for a center channel speaker? Some of these new DLP's I have seen coming out don't leave room for anything at all up there. From what I understand, the HD2+ Sammy's will have a "shelf" built in. If picture quality is equal, the shelf set may win out.

I can't wait to hit Sound Advice when they have all these DLP's side-by-side!

Originally posted by BearGator56
One thing... does the Mits have room on top for a center channel speaker? Some of these new DLP's I have seen coming out don't leave room for anything at all up there. From what I understand, the HD2+ Sammy's will have a "shelf" built in. If picture quality is equal, the shelf set may win out.
My impression is that the side profile of the 525 is the similar to the HLPxx63 sets. There is really no room for a center speaker.

Also the 52" 525 is almost the same width as the 56" HLP5677 with the HD2+ chip.

Sure you can mount a speaker on top of it, providing the speaker has a depth of about...say...2". ;) The set's profile is the classic asymmetrical pyramid tilted 90 degrees back that most DLPs are.

I went out again today to look at the HLP5063 & WD-52525 one more time. Hooked my Xbox up to both & yummy, yummy! This was as close as I've had to a "wow" factor yet when looking at HDTVs. Both displays were awesome to my eyes. Noticebly better then my CRT via Component cables at home (which in itself blows most of my gaming friends' displays away...they're really going to hate me now!) I'd give the nod to Quentin in that the Mitsu seemed to have a little more oomph in this dept.

Granted, again these weren't direct side by side comparisons and the viewing enviroment is definitely better at the Mitsu store. That said I'd also say that I think the HLP looks nicer to me as far as HDTV is concerned. To my well worn CRT eyes it does look a tad smoother & pleasing.

Regardless, as far as overall PQ goes with these two sets for me, it's a coin toss. That said, I bought the 52525. As I intoned before, my reasons were more to do with the design, features, dealer exp., branding & price.

I'm a happy camper! :D

Won't be taking delivery of it for a week or two. Still need to either make a new stand or break down and buy the IKEA one. Really the only one I like that isn't at least a grand but it's far from perfect. Plus I need to unload my Toshiba on my coworker & that takes some scheduling etc. This is when the real patience test begins. ;)

Congrats, Reynard! I'm sure your friends will be jealous...particularly when Halo 2 comes out this Xmas!

I'm going to be waiting about a month...so, please keep up the reports as you view and re-view it. It's still in my final four.

Heh, no kidding. We already play Halo here every other Friday night. :) I really can't wait to see some of my Line of Contact replays on the new set. That supports 720p widescreen. :D

I'll most definitely keep you all appraised of life with the 525 once it arrives. Thanks to the stand thread here, I just discovered some better IKEA options as far as furniture is concerned. Stuff I didn't even know existed do to my lack of skill in navigating their site originally. D'oh! :o

I sure wish some of these designers would think about home theatre. To me, not having a place to put the center channel is a sin!

If none of 'em have it, trying to find a rack to put all of my equiptment AND a center channel becomes a chore. Might have to try out my woodworking skills and build my own. TV probably won't be very level, though! :)

Originally posted by jwv651
Kipp Jones,
Shouldn't we be getting ready for the Cubs Sox game!

Joe V.


What about A's v. Giants! 2 team markets are great.

Originally posted by Auditor55
What about A's v. Giants! 2 team markets are great.

Just wish I had a shinny new HDTV to watch them on!

Originally posted by Reynard
Sure you can mount a speaker on top of it, providing the speaker has a depth of about...say...2". ;) The set's profile is the classic asymmetrical pyramid tilted 90 degrees back that most DLPs are.

I went out again today to look at the HLP5063 & WD-52525 one more time. Hooked my Xbox up to both & yummy, yummy! This was as close as I've had to a "wow" factor yet when looking at HDTVs. Both displays were awesome to my eyes. Noticebly better then my CRT via Component cables at home (which in itself blows most of my gaming friends' displays away...they're really going to hate me now!) I'd give the nod to Quentin in that the Mitsu seemed to have a little more oomph in this dept.

Granted, again these weren't direct side by side comparisons and the viewing enviroment is definitely better at the Mitsu store. That said I'd also say that I think the HLP looks nicer to me as far as HDTV is concerned. To my well worn CRT eyes it does look a tad smoother & pleasing.

Regardless, as far as overall PQ goes with these two sets for me, it's a coin toss. That said, I bought the 52525. As I intoned before, my reasons were more to do with the design, features, dealer exp., branding & price.

I'm a happy camper! :D

Won't be taking delivery of it for a week or two. Still need to either make a new stand or break down and buy the IKEA one. Really the only one I like that isn't at least a grand but it's far from perfect. Plus I need to unload my Toshiba on my coworker & that takes some scheduling etc. This is when the real patience test begins. ;)


If Mits don't look a thousands dollars better than the 50 inch HLP, I don't know how you can justify the purchase. The Mits I understand retails at about 4k, not including tax, and the 50 inch Sammy through the PowerBuy is about $2,900.

I was set to go check out the Mits DLP until my car broke down, hopefully I will get a chance to see it Monday night. I prefer to purchase a Mits over a Sammy, but not a thousand dollars+ more, the Mits seem to be a budget buster for me.

Auditor55

I am in the boat, I prefer the Mits over Samsung for build quality, Just need to see one and if the PQ isn't all that much better, then I will complete my order for Sammy 6163 when the time comes. Just wish I could get this over real soon.

Joe V.

I think it would be fair to compare the Mits DLP with Samsung's upcoming 77 series HD2+ DLPs in terms of overall functionality rather than the samsung 63 series... The Mitsubishi DLP adds a Tuner, 3 firewire inputs, and cablecard... Now if those aren't desired and the PQ really isn't that much better than the HD3, then I guess it is your call :)

Originally posted by UMD_Terp
I think it would be fair to compare the Mits DLP with Samsung's upcoming 77 series HD2+ DLPs in terms of overall functionality rather than the samsung 63 series... The Mitsubishi DLP adds a Tuner, 3 firewire inputs, and cablecard... Now if those aren't desired and the PQ really isn't that much better than the HD3, then I guess it is your call :)


When it comes to features, no doubt the Mits kicks serious tail, but isn't picture quality the first criteria in picking a set? Those features the Mits offer are most desirable, particularly by me, but at what cost? My biggest concern with Sammy is not PQ, I have seen the HLP's and they really look good, but Sammy DLP's seem to be having some serious reliability problems, I hope its not the same with Mits.

I also wish the Mits had 2 digital inputs like the Samsung, to use with my Dish Sat HD 811 and soon to be had Samsung HD-941. PQ will make my decision as to which one I purchased regardless of price. I hope to keep for 6-10 years. I only watch SD, DVD and HDTV would not need for Gaming. I was also interested in the JVC D-ila but have decided Mits 725 62" vs Samsung HLP6163. Regardless, I will have a new HDTV by the first week of Sept.

Joe V.

Originally posted by Auditor55
If Mits don't look a thousands dollars better than the 50 inch HLP, I don't know how you can justify the purchase. The Mits I understand retails at about 4k, not including tax, and the 50 inch Sammy through the PowerBuy is about $2,900.


Read my posts again if you want to understand why I made my decision. I think it's pretty clear. Your criteria of picture quality worth expressed in dollars doesn't work for me as I even said that none of these tvs looks $3000 better then my direct view. :confused:

The WD-52525 retails for $3799. The HLP5063 for $3499. Like I said, I got a very nice deal & if you factor in my wanting to buy from a local dealer as opposed to mail order... there really were no price difference issues at all. :)

Originally posted by Auditor55
When it comes to features, no doubt the Mits kicks serious tail, but isn't picture quality the first criteria in picking a set? Those features the Mits offer are most desirable, particularly by me, but at what cost? My biggest concern with Sammy is not PQ, I have seen the HLP's and they really look good, but Sammy DLP's seem to be having some serious reliability problems, I hope its not the same with Mits.

I agree with you... PQ is paramount to the decision... To me the HD3 sets look great. If the PQ for these Mitsubshi sets is even marginally better, then I am going for them since the price difference between the two is in the noise given the extra features the Mitsubishi has... at least to me that is... :)

As for the lack of an additional DVI/HDMI, it would be nice, but it isn't a killer.

Originally posted by Reynard
Read my posts again if you want to understand why I made my decision. I think it's pretty clear. Your criteria of picture quality worth expressed in dollars doesn't work for me as I even said that none of these tvs looks $3000 better then my direct view. :confused:

The WD-52525 retails for $3799. The HLP5063 for $3499. Like I said, I got a very nice deal & if you factor in my wanting to buy from a local dealer as opposed to mail order... there really were no price difference issues at all. :)


I read your post more than once as I'm trying to get as much out it as possible. I understand what you are saying and I probably would have made a similiar decision in your situation. I'm kind of favor Mits, but if the Mits doesn't blow away the Samsung with in HD3 chip, like I heard it should considering that it has the HD2+, I just would lean to purchasing the Samsung. BTW, through the Powerbuy the Samsung is like $2,800. that is $700.00 lower than retail price and a grand lower than the Mits.

Are these Mits being displayed in the Chicagoland area yet?

Joe V.

Anyone seen the Mitsu's in NJ yet?!?

I think NJ may be like NY. PC Richard on LI will have them in the warehouse on July 17th (the 525s). I forget what he said about the 725s. When a 525 gets to one of their showrooms I don't know.

Sat in front of the 52" HD2+ for another 40 minutes today. Strangely enough, they removed the DVD hookup, so I could only view HDTV and SD.

I'm pretty much ready to see the JVC now. For HDTV, this HD2+ set is going to be tough to beat. It really does have a 3-d depth and feel. I love it. I bet we hear great things from Reynard about the Xbox look too.

SD? Eh, I looked at SD today on the HLP as well. Let's face it, SD on a digital set just doesn't look too good - not on any of them. I don't hate the SD on the Mits as much after today.

But, I'm going to really test out the DVD feeds on this set and the JVC once they are out. DVD is the selling point for me, even though I watch a ton of HD NFL.

Try to get the store to hook one up to an upconverting DVD player over DVI/HDMI. Better leave your credit card at home though, or you'd never be able to play the waiting game.

I was trying to wait to see an HD2+ until I saw an HD2 and an HD3 playing LOTR at 720p over DVI. I caved and ordered a Sammy HLP. No regrets.

I do envy you the chance to see the Mits. Nobody here has one in stock.

I know the Mits only have 1 HDMI and the Samsung has 2=1 HDMI and 1 DVI. My question is do you lose alot of PQ using the component setup.
I have a Dish HD 811 receiver with DVI and will be getting the Samsung 941 which has the HDMI. Any thoughts on the best setup for PQ.

You would think all these Manufacturers would include 2 digital inputs on the newer sets.

Joe V.

Originally posted by jwv651
I know the Mits only have 1 HDMI and the Samsung has 2=1 HDMI and 1 DVI. My question is do you lose alot of PQ using the component setup.
I have a Dish HD 811 receiver with DVI and will be getting the Samsung 941 which has the HDMI. Any thoughts on the best setup for PQ.

You would think all these Manufacturers would include 2 digital inputs on the newer sets.

Joe V.

Technically the Mitsu. has 4 digital inputs - 1 HDMI and 3 firewire. Don't know anything about Dish receivers but I know my cable company (Time Warner) offers an HD STB with a firewire out - you have to specially request it though. I guess with Dish you own the equipment, right, so this may not be too helpful.

There are mixed reviews on this forum on the quality of DVI vs component. I believe the general consensus is that DVI is a little better due to the all digital stream.

DVI/HDMI will ensure you can view HDCP encoded programming in the future, but that's an entirely different discussion.

A company called Gefen is in the process of marketing an HDMI switcher with discrete IR control. This could be a workaround for Mits. DLP owners who have more than one digital source...

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=2208

I looked on the back of Dish 811 no firewire only component and DVI. So would I lose alot of PQ with the component setup? Would there be a noticeable difference.

Joe V.

Originally posted by MarkMSM
There are mixed reviews on this forum on the quality of DVI vs component. I believe the general consensus is that DVI is a little better due to the all digital stream.

DVI/HDMI will ensure you can view HDCP encoded programming in the future, but that's an entirely different discussion.

A company called Gefen is in the process of marketing an HDMI switcher with discrete IR control. This could be a workaround for Mits. DLP owners who have more than one digital source...

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=2208

Only problem with that is you can't calibrate the inputs independently. If you are going to hook an HD box and a DVD player up to the same HDMI input, you would likely want different settings - I'm assuming the Mitsu. saves the settings for each input like the Sammy does.

Originally posted by jwv651
I looked on the back of Dish 811 no firewire only component and DVI. So would I lose alot of PQ with the component setup? Would there be a noticeable difference.

Joe V.

As MarkMSM mentioned, the results really vary. It depends on your equipment and also on which particular channel you are watching. I had two identical Pioneer 3510 STBs which I connected to my DLP side by side to do a true comparison - one channel at a time. I found that DVI looked better on more channels (NBC, CBS, ABC, Disovery) but Component still looked better on some (HBO and Showtime had more vibrant colors over component). Don't think you will be losing a LOT of PQ but like I said, I know nothing about your Dish 811 receiver - someone in the HDTV Hardware forum who has that receiver would probably offer better advice.

EricScott,

Thanks!

Sure thing. Just make sure if you post in the HDTV Hardware forum that you make it clear that you have a 720p digital display. If you are using an analog display (CRT, etc), the differences would likely be even more minimal.

Originally posted by QuentinH
Sat in front of the 52" HD2+ for another 40 minutes today. Strangely enough, they removed the DVD hookup, so I could only view HDTV and SD.

I'm pretty much ready to see the JVC now. For HDTV, this HD2+ set is going to be tough to beat. It really does have a 3-d depth and feel. I love it. I bet we hear great things from Reynard about the Xbox look too.

SD? Eh, I looked at SD today on the HLP as well. Let's face it, SD on a digital set just doesn't look too good - not on any of them. I don't hate the SD on the Mits as much after today.

But, I'm going to really test out the DVD feeds on this set and the JVC once they are out. DVD is the selling point for me, even though I watch a ton of HD NFL.


I seen the Mits DLP last night and will probably check it out some more. Like the HLP's these sets are darker with richer colors than the Samsung HLN's. I think that's going to be the trend with future DLP's, I don't think you will see the overly bright, overly sharp, fake looking DLP's due to greater contrast ratio with these new sets. I expect the Toshiba's, future Samsungs and Panasonics all to look similiar to the Mits and the current Samsung HLP's.

So how would you rate the Mits to the HD3 Samsung with PQ.

Originally posted by jwv651
So how would you rate the Mits to the HD3 Samsung with PQ.


Like QuentinH mentioned, I found the Mits to be sharp with good blacks. Unfortunately they didn't have a HLP to compare it to. My first impression was that it didn't blow me or the Samsung away. Based on seeing the Samungs so many times, I think you would be hard pressed to notice any difference in black level performance between the sets. You might notice that the picture is sharper on the Mits, but I also noticed that the picture is a kind of grainy, could be the source , I don't know.

Basically I would lean towards the Mits, due to the features, not so much PQ. I think the HLP's have really good PQ, much better than those Las Vegas neon signs called DLP's that Samsung was trying push as TV sets with HLN line.

I saw the 52 inch Mitsubishi DLP today at my local Good Guys. It was placed next to a Samsung DLP, not sure if it's a HLP or HLN. I got about 5 mins of direct comparison of the 2. Like the other person stated above that the Mitsubishis does seem alot more smoothness and natural image. And I didnt notice as much of the screen door on the Mitsu's as the Samsung's next to it. Not sure if anybody seen the RCA Scenium DLPs out there. The PQ of the Scenium is very similiar to the Mitsu's. There's alot more glare coming from the Mitsu's though in the store.
Overall, I'd like to have the Mitsu in a light controlled environment and the Samsung's in a brightly lit environment like inside the stores. The Mitsu's were priced around $4K there.

So is it confirmed that the MSRP of the Mitsubishi 525 is around $3800?

Does anyone know why the Mits DLP sets weigh so much more than the Sammys? I have a 61" HLP on order from the TVA power buy and already bought a Bush stand (model VS44150-03) which can support up to 154 lbs on the top glass shelf. The Samsung HLP6163W weighs 99.21 lbs according to the specs on the owners manual. The Mits brochure says the WD-62725 weighs 165.5 lbs, that seems like a huge difference. I know the Mits has the tuner and the cablecard slot, but a 65 lb difference? And they did save some weight by using cloth instead of plasic over the speakers!:D
I'm still hoping to see a Mits 62725 before my Sammy ships from TVA.

Originally posted by f16falcon
Does anyone know why the Mits DLP sets weigh so much more than the Sammys? I have a 61" HLP on order from the TVA power buy and already bought a Bush stand (model VS44150-03) which can support up to 154 lbs on the top glass shelf. The Samsung HLP6163W weighs 99.21 lbs according to the specs on the owners manual. The Mits brochure says the WD-62725 weighs 165.5 lbs, that seems like a huge difference. I know the Mits has the tuner and the cablecard slot, but a 65 lb difference? And they did save some weight by using cloth instead of plasic over the speakers!:D
I'm still hoping to see a Mits 62725 before my Sammy ships from TVA.

I also have the HLP6163 on pre-order and would like to see the Mits wd-62725 before I commit to TVA. Sounds like they should be out in stores around the same time as the Sammy 61" if not I will go will the 6163 and be happy.

Joe V.

Has anyone compared how dark scenes look on the Mitsubishi compared to the Samsung. If the HD2+ lives up to it's name, dark scene should be brighter and more detailed.

Originally posted by f16falcon
Does anyone know why the Mits DLP sets weigh so much more than the Sammys? I have a 61" HLP on order from the TVA power buy and already bought a Bush stand (model VS44150-03) which can support up to 154 lbs on the top glass shelf. The Samsung HLP6163W weighs 99.21 lbs according to the specs on the owners manual. The Mits brochure says the WD-62725 weighs 165.5 lbs, that seems like a huge difference. I know the Mits has the tuner and the cablecard slot, but a 65 lb difference? And they did save some weight by using cloth instead of plasic over the speakers!:D
I'm still hoping to see a Mits 62725 before my Sammy ships from TVA.

anti-glare screen?

Originally posted by f16falcon
Does anyone know why the Mits DLP sets weigh so much more than the Sammys? Build quality? Ever compare a Denon DVD player to a Panasonic? I'll take overbuilt over underbuilt any day of the week.

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
Build quality? Ever compare a Denon DVD player to a Panasonic? I'll take overbuilt over underbuilt any day of the week.

The Mistu is deeper as well - more than 3 inches deeper than the 50" HLP.

The depth is not good news...each manufacturer is trying to squeeze out as much depth as possible. Why would Mitsu not be able to compete on this? Is it their proprietary light engine?

Anybody know what a replacement light bulb goes for on these new sets the 52" and 62" and also how many hours are they rated for. Knowing Mitsubishi they won't be cheap $$$.

Joe V.

I just spent about 30 minutes comparing the HLP5063W and the 525 at the local GG. Unfortunately, they didn't have them side by side, so I had to walk about 30 ft. across the store to compare images. Both were being fed with the same 1080i source containing a Discovery HD promo feed (although both were also connected to an OTA antenna that I used to check out crappy analog feeds - I didn't try the ATSC tuner in the Mits).

Screen door was visible on the Mits, not on the Sammy (due to the HD3 in the HLP). Like others have mentioned, the Mits seemed grainy as compared to pretty much every other TV in the store. I was able to set the HLP up in Cinema mode and turn the sharpness all the way down to 0 (bad sharpness, go away!). On the Mits, I couldn't figure out how to do the same thing easily. After cruising through the menus for a couple seconds, it looked like I had the choice between full "auto" picture mode or super detailed, adjust 6 differenct color values, mode. Since I didn't want to go through a full calibration, I left it on auto. Overall, I think the Mits had an edge in detail and black levels (although less than I would have thought), and the Sammy just looked smoother. The real deal killer on the Mits was the screen. It was practically a mirror! Might as well advertise "bright, shiny screen." I'm sure the 725 series is much better in this regard, but I didn't want to wait that long or spend that much.

In the end, I was able to get a fairly good deal on the Sammy with 24 months financing, so that's what's getting delivered on Friday!

Originally posted by yatra
The depth is not good news...each manufacturer is trying to squeeze out as much depth as possible. Why would Mitsu not be able to compete on this? Is it their proprietary light engine?

Perhaps the other manufacturers have gone too far in making it thinner. This might help avoid the color fringing or chromatic aberrations that some sets are having.

Perhaps the other manufacturers have gone too far in making it thinner.
With upcoming 50" and 61" DLPs announced at depths under 7" (RCA is 6.85"), I think Samsung and Mitsubishi still have a ways to go before they're pushing the limit of what is possible.

We learned at CES that reducing depth requires design changes that add to the cost. Whether it also reduces the quality of the picture remains to be seen, but I don't think there is any evidence of that so far.

Based upon all the information on these posts (and the fact that the 525 won't be in my local store for another couple of weeks) it would seem like the prevailing opinion is that the reflectivity of the screen is the biggest drawback to this set-- i.e. all other preferences considered.

Has anyone actually purchased the 525, or are people waiting to look at the 725?

Mits engineers and product folks must be smart-- why would they put a unit out with such an obvious drawback?

Maybe it was just the unit I saw but any one else notice the fan noise on the Mits 525? The screen is definitely the big downer, maybe it is their way of getting people to upgrade to the higher end models.

I think these highly reflective screens is one way that Mits uses to differentiate the lower priced sets from their top models. At least on their CRT based RPTVs it was removable(which works if you don't have small children or pets).

Originally posted by cjut01
Based upon all the information on these posts (and the fact that the 525 won't be in my local store for another couple of weeks) it would seem like the prevailing opinion is that the reflectivity of the screen is the biggest drawback to this set-- i.e. all other preferences considered. Maybe this is the biggest drawback, but one of the biggest benefits of Mits sets is that the glare screen is easily removable and reattachable.

Believe me, the picture with no glare screen is much better than with no matter how "anti-glare" the glare screen seems to be. You can always put the screen on temporarily when kids or clumsy adults come over.

If you have kids, pets, or clumsy adults living with you...it would be wiser to wait for the higher end anti-glare sets.

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
Maybe this is the biggest drawback, but one of the biggest benefits of Mits sets is that the glare screen is easily removable and reattachable.

Believe me, the picture with no glare screen is much better than with no matter how "anti-glare" the glare screen seems to be. You can always put the screen on temporarily when kids or clumsy adults come over.

If you have kids, pets, or clumsy adults living with you...it would be wiser to wait for the higher end anti-glare sets.


Is the screen on the Mits DLP removable? If it is I think its dumb to pay $500 more dollars for essentially the same set without the screen. I don't have any little bad kid running around that will put their hands on my screen anyway, so I would remove it and save the $500 for the stand. The guy at the TV store offered to allow me to purchase the Mits and exchange if I didn't like whenever the new ones arrived without the glare screen.

Anyway, the biggest problem I have when checking out this set is dithering, its pretty bad on some of the material I was viewing. I have yet to notice dithering on the Samsung HLP's and I have seen more of them than the Mits.

Originally posted by KWhite
Maybe it was just the unit I saw but any one else notice the fan noise on the Mits 525? The screen is definitely the big downer, maybe it is their way of getting people to upgrade to the higher end models.


Some people have noticed the fan noise on some sets. Mits is expected to be coming out with a fix in the next day or so.

Originally posted by JimP
I think these highly reflective screens is one way that Mits uses to differentiate the lower priced sets from their top models. At least on their CRT based RPTVs it was removable(which works if you don't have small children or pets).

I bet you are right and that's a pretty stupid marketing ploy by Mistu. It's not like the 525's are cheap yet they come with a anti-glare screen that does more harm than good. There's no reason to include a feature that is an inconvenience for customers. And I certainly wouldn't introduce those alone as my first (I know not technically their first) foray into DLP.

I've been trying to figure out the difference between the low-end and the Diamonds myself...

It doesn't seem like there's any real benefit to spending the money for the Diamond. I don't need the PVR, and I plan on removing the protective screen.

Does Mitsubishi claim a better picture for the higher-end models? Or anything? With the CRT's...you can see the difference in the picture quality. The Diamond line even has the 9" guns in the 65" model.

I've looked the pdf file up and down and all 3 DLP's say the same thing-except for the PVR and upgraded screen.

Hopefully someone can answer these questions!

Originally posted by yatra
The depth is not good news...each manufacturer is trying to squeeze out as much depth as possible. Why would Mitsu not be able to compete on this? Is it their proprietary light engine?

IMO, thin is not what it is all about. If you are concerned about depth issues, maybe you need to purchase a flat panel instead of a RPTV.

Originally posted by Airblair
Some people have noticed the fan noise on some sets. Mits is expected to be coming out with a fix in the next day or so.

True it is. Got the call today. Getting my set next Saturday...with the fan mod. Was told that some sets had the fan mounted incorrectly causing excess noise. Granted the one I demo'd was as quiet as any tv could be.

Oh well, as anxious as I am, it's better that I have another week to truly get the living room properly rearranged. Will keep you all posted.

Does anyone know when these TVs are going to hit stores like Best Buy and HH Gregg?

Also, when someone views these sets check out how the TV does in the area of dark scenes compared to the HLP. No one has said anything about this yet and this is supposed to be an area that is improved over the HD2 and I assume the HD3. Low lit scenes on my previous HLN were very dim and I'm hoping this is improved on the HD2+ models.

Originally posted by xb1032
Does anyone know when these TVs are going to hit stores like Best Buy and HH Gregg?

Also, when someone views these sets check out how the TV does in the area of dark scenes compared to the HLP. No one has said anything about this yet and this is supposed to be an area that is improved over the HD2 and I assume the HD3. Low lit scenes on my previous HLN were very dim and I'm hoping this is improved on the HD2+ models.

Read QuentinH's review of this set in this thread, he covers the issue of black level or shadow detail and how it compares to the HLP. Just from my observation, both sets do well in that department, still not as a good as a CRT, but much better than the previous HLN line. As I said before, the biggest problem I had with the Mits set is dithering, its pretty bad on some of the material I was viewing.

I am one of the few who doesn't like the anti-reflective screens on the DLP and LCDRP sets because they are clearly visible on light colored scenes. Reflections won't be a big deal in the room where I put the set, so I will give these a serious look. I applaud Mitsubishi for providing an alternative screen. I know I'm in the minority, but thought I'd share my dissenting opinion.

My local Best Buy has 8/15/04 as the In-Stock date.

Originally posted by Auditor55
As I said before, the biggest problem I had with the Mits set is dithering, its pretty bad on some of the material I was viewing.


That's the other upgrade option. You get rid of the glare and dithering with the more expensive unit.

Although I'm mostly kidding about this, what you bet that'll be the case.

Personally, I think non glare screens do have an adverse effect on black level and contrast. Only problem is that most people have a greater need for glare control.

As I said before, the biggest problem I had with the Mits set is dithering, its pretty bad on some of the material I was viewing.

Just wondering what input and/or material you were watching where dithering was a problem?

As stated in my review, I really didn't notice much dithering EXCEPT I saw some during a soccer game footage (heavy, fast movement) from an HD feed.

It's possible that dithering is worse for a DVD feed, since the 480p picture tended to be worse in all aspects.

Unfortunately, dithering seems to be a DLP problem...and, like rainbows, some people notice it more than others.

Originally posted by MarkMSM
My local Best Buy has 8/15/04 as the In-Stock date.

The sooner the better. I owned the HLN617W for about 7 months and sold it for a good price hoping for some improvements on the HD2+ models. I am now borrowing a 27" Samsung from a relative until I make a decision. I've been without it for about a month now and I'm getting impatient:mad: . However, hopefully it'll be woth the wait. I'm also interested in seeing how the Toshiba's and the Panasonics look too.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMO, thin is not what it is all about. If you are concerned about depth issues, maybe you need to purchase a flat panel instead of a RPTV
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would....but burn in and brightness decay are deal killers. My placement situation begs for something thin with preferably no attached speakers / bottom mounted speakers.

Originally posted by QuentinH
As I said before, the biggest problem I had with the Mits set is dithering, its pretty bad on some of the material I was viewing.

Just wondering what input and/or material you were watching where dithering was a problem?

As stated in my review, I really didn't notice much dithering EXCEPT I saw some during a soccer game footage (heavy, fast movement) from an HD feed.

It's possible that dithering is worse for a DVD feed, since the 480p picture tended to be worse in all aspects.

Unfortunately, dithering seems to be a DLP problem...and, like rainbows, some people notice it more than others.

It was some old time western on a movie channel that was being presented in HD.

Auditor55, when you say "dithering" do you mean colors which seem to shimmer or areas of the picture which erratically seem to lose resolution?

For the latter, I have been using the term "pixelation" (which BTW may be incorrect). The Mits seemed to me to have too many areas where fine details were lost due to pixelation i.e. suddently and erratically fine details were replaced with larger blocks of pixels. With the Mits this seemed to occur even when the pic wasn't moving fast (HD Discovery channel on component inputs).

I thought the term "dithering" was used to describe switching between two available colors to obtain an unavailable color, which can be done on a per-pixel basis, and doesn't necessarily cause any loss of detail but rather unstable colors, particularly noticable in large areas of a single color (blue sky, car doors close up, etc.).

Which of these (or both) do you see in the Mits?
And, would someone advise me on the correct terminology please.

Originally posted by jaime2221
Auditor55, when you say "dithering" do you mean colors which seem to shimmer or areas of the picture which erratically seem to lose resolution?

For the latter, I have been using the term "pixelation" (which BTW may be incorrect). The Mits seemed to me to have too many areas where fine details were lost due to pixelation i.e. suddently and erratically fine details were replaced with larger blocks of pixels. With the Mits this seemed to occur even when the pic wasn't moving fast (HD Discovery channel on component inputs).

I thought the term "dithering" was used to describe switching between two available colors to obtain an unavailable color, which can be done on a per-pixel basis, and doesn't necessarily cause any loss of detail but rather unstable colors, particularly noticable in large areas of a single color (blue sky, car doors close up, etc.).

Which of these (or both) do you see in the Mits?
And, would someone advise me on the correct terminology please.

Yes, shimmering and the switching between two available colors to obtain an unavailable color as you have stated. Check out this explanation of dithering and the photo examples.

http://www.webstyleguide.com/graphics/dither.html

PC Richards has an ad in today's paper adverising the new 52" Mitsu DLP.

I went to PC Richards (LI, NY) and saw the 52525. What a disappointment. I could not get past the extremely shiny screen-- what were they thinking? And, it was shiny in a pretty dark display area. I have heard you can take it off but I didn't ask. The salesperson (when I mentioned how terrible the glare screen looked and I told my wife it could be taken off)-- said the Mits rep told him that it was important that it be left on, because it improves the brightness. Huh? I stopped talking to the salesperson at that point. Anyway, based upon comments in the forum, I anticipated the screen issue, but I really wanted to see it for myself.

On another subject, slightly OT, the PCR salesman said they did NOT have a 30 day return policy. I really thought all these folks (CC, BB, Tweeter, etc) did have such a policy. When it gets closer to my buy (JVC or Mits 725 or Sony GWIV or Sammy HD2+) I will inquire via a separate thread.

Originally posted by cjut01
I really thought all these folks (CC, BB, Tweeter, etc) did have such a policy.
Those folks do. PC Richards and some others don't. Always inquire and get the terms and conditions in writing.

On a somewhat unrelated topic, last week I heard of a chain store with 24 locations banned two sisters from shopping with them as they return too many things.

Is this a sign of what's to come, probably so. For the legitimate buyer, I don't think that its going to be a problem. For the people who viewing buying a TV like checking a book out of the library, they'll have to find another hobby.

I went and saw the new 52" Mitsu DLP at the PC Richards in Carle Place, Long Island last night.

My impression is that the Mitsu blew away the Samsung HLP 50" that was right next to it.

Much better picture....the Sammy looked washed out in comparison.

The anti-glare screen wasn't that big an issue for me. Under even PC Richards poor lighting...the Mitsu looked fabulous.

The salesman there said all he did was set it up earlier that day and turned it on...no tweaks. They were showing HDNet.

When you really watch side by side....the Mitsu is the winner. I had my heart set on a 50" HLP but after seeing the Mitsu, I have to change my mind.

I'll wait for the JVC and the Toshiba but the Mitsu 525 really does have a natural tube-like picture....the colors look real compared to the Sammy.
Black levels are very good....again almost CRT-like.

Thats my honest opinion....I can't wait to go back and watch again!

Originally posted by cjut01
I went to PC Richards (LI, NY) and saw the 52525. What a disappointment. I could not get past the extremely shiny screen-- what were they thinking? And, it was shiny in a pretty dark display area. I have heard you can take it off but I didn't ask. The salesperson (when I mentioned how terrible the glare screen looked and I told my wife it could be taken off)-- said the Mits rep told him that it was important that it be left on, because it improves the brightness. Huh? I stopped talking to the salesperson at that point. Anyway, based upon comments in the forum, I anticipated the screen issue, but I really wanted to see it for myself.

On another subject, slightly OT, the PCR salesman said they did NOT have a 30 day return policy. I really thought all these folks (CC, BB, Tweeter, etc) did have such a policy. When it gets closer to my buy (JVC or Mits 725 or Sony GWIV or Sammy HD2+) I will inquire via a separate thread.


As I said before, the shinny screen is not a problem for me, as someone said, the screen can easily be removed. I'm more concerned about dithering. Having said that and after months of trying to decide on a new TV. I looked at all them Sony LCD, Panny LCD, Samsung HLP & HLN DLP's, LG's, Mits CRT's, Plasma EDTV's, Phillips LCOS and others. I have come to agree with what many have said before, there are pros and cons of each type of display technology, also there are pros and cons of each set manufacturer. We can endlessly go in search of the Holy Grail of video displays and video display technology, one day we might get there or maybe not, but for now we are not at perfection, which means if we decide to make a purchase we must accept some flaws of each display.

As it has been well said in this forum, the flaws one is willing to overlook comes down to a matter of preference or tolerance. To some, a flaw such as screen door effect is unaccpetable, to others rainbows and dithering are just deal breakers.

I looked at some dithering on the Mits DLP's when watching a old movie, it did not look to good. I have also looked at shots of Mits looking better than anything around it so I know, so interms of PQ the Mits sets will hold its own with all of them, including the Sony GWlll. So looking at the issue of PQ, the Mits is on par with other sets or even surpassed them.

Weighing at all of those factors, reading various post at nauseum, I decided to purchase the Mits. I decided that dithering is a flaw that will tolerate until the perfect set is manufactured.

It was close between the Mits and Sammy 50/56 inch HLP. I finally got a chance to see them side by side, and it terms of PQ it was close. The Sammy doesn't have the glare screen and the Mits does. The Sammy also cost less, especially purchasing through the Power Buy. I chose the Mits over the Sammy because of the features the Mits have, its loaded with features that I desire in a set.

Built in ATSC tuner
Firewire in addition to HDMI
Cablecard
Netcommad

Those things won me over. I know that within the next 3 months Sammy, Toshiba and Panasonic will all have DLP's with some of the same type features that will offer real good PQ, and I know folks here will be waiting to purchase them. I will hear the complaints and praise of those sets as well. This should be an interesting time for purchasing RPTV's.

Auditor55,

You described your choice method very well, and it sounds like it is a good one for you.

Where did you see the Mitsubishi and HLP sets together?

Enjoy.

Originally posted by videoking
I went and saw the new 52" Mitsu DLP at the PC Richards in Carle Place, Long Island last night.

My impression is that the Mitsu blew away the Samsung HLP 50" that was right next to it.

Much better picture....the Sammy looked washed out in comparison.

The anti-glare screen wasn't that big an issue for me.

I just saw the Mits DLP at PC Richards today myself. It was sitting right NEXT to the HLP 50 inch.

When I had previously seen the HLP 50 I was VERY impressed and was going to sign on for the powerbuy (can't beat the price and HLP61 seemed light the best compromise among all the rear projection choices for me)..... now I'm not so sure. While the HLP did look very good (HDnet feed to both), the colors and black levels did appears somewhat washed-out compared to the PQ of the Mits. Also, the level of detail (PQ) was definitely better on the Mits. BTW, I was able to adjust the picture parameters on both sets to my hearts content. (not through service menus though)

I frankly never liked the HLN. It always looked like a computer display to me. Way too "digital" ... saturated and hard-edged. The Mits looked nothing like that . The picture just seemed smooth and well balanced. So sound like I'll be getting the Mits, right???

I would, if only it weren't for one GLARING problem..... screen glare. I had read posts regarding glare but was not prepared for the magnitude of what I saw. The glare was among the worst of any rear-projection on the floor... I was so dissapointed.

As a result I'm now considering the 7 series Mits (62 inch) since it has the anti-glare screen (BTW I have young children and would not be able to take the protective screen of the 5 series off). The only problem is the significant jump in price over the 61 inch HLP. I think out the door, I'd be paying an extra THOUSAND dollars for the Mits.

Given that I'm updating my whole HT setup (speakers, amp, pre/pro), I'm not sure that I can handle the extra cost. I wish that Toshiba didn't put side speakers on their 62 inch HD2+ since I don't think that I can make that set fit in my room. If it would fit, at least I'd have another HD2+ option. I know that the HLP 56 HD2+ will be coming out soon, but when it comes to t.v.'s, size really does matter.

Oh well..... decisions, decisions.

-Craig

htwaits, both the MitsDLP and the HLP50 can be seen at GG @ Stevesn Creek at Winchester San J. There is a Sony LCD RP in between them too. Near by is an HLN61. And, the room lignting is relatively bright, unlike BB and Magnolia (I havent been in the new BB across the street yet however).

Originally posted by jaime2221
htwaits, both the MitsDLP and the HLP50 can be seen at GG @ Stevesn Creek at Winchester San J. There is a Sony LCD RP in between them too. Near by is an HLN61. And, the room lignting is relatively bright, unlike BB and Magnolia (I havent been in the new BB across the street yet however).
Thanks for the information.

I'm not sure that a "bright" showroom is a good thing for the 52525 with that screen is has. I expect that Magnolia will be getting the Mitsubishi in a week or two.

I'll stop by soon.

htwaits, I needed a bright showrom to better represent my conditions.

IMO, anyone considering the Mits525 should view it in as many locations as possible; the screen is very poished (to optimise reflections :D). The screen does does come off but the unit's overall appearance with it installed is really good not sure how it would look if removed (no I didn't ask have it removed, but the salesman showed me how it is mounted and it appears that it can be easily removed with no tools).

Initially, the Mits had the most striking image as compared to the GWIII and HLP50 but, to my eye, it was not better. I tweaked the HLP to reduce the saturation to more realistic levels, set the contrast and brightness a bit and liked the HLP better than the Mits. The black level was good and the adjustments improved the details in the dark areas. I was still unhappy with the near-white details... and I did not try to adjust the Mits... out of time. The Mits near-black detail wasn't great but likely could be improved with some adjustments.

BTW: I don't know what Netcommad is yet (just what I need, another topic to research :rolleyes:)... anyone with a good reference link on this?

Originally posted by htwaits
Auditor55,

You described your choice method very well, and it sounds like it is a good one for you.

Where did you see the Mitsubishi and HLP sets together?

Enjoy.

At Good Guy's on Stevens Creek and Winchester. I actually purchase it from Andersons TV & Stereo a few miles up on Stevens Creek. I'm expecting delivery today.

Originally posted by cmr15


I frankly never liked the HLN. It always looked like a computer display to me. Way too "digital" ... saturated and hard-edged. The Mits looked nothing like that . The picture just seemed smooth and well balanced. So sound like I'll be getting the Mits, right???


-Craig



Thats the way I felt.....the Mits has a very warm tube-like picture. It seems to invite you to watch the program.

In my case I can take of the screen if it bothered me (my present TV...a 32" JVC tube has reflections in the daytime anyway). I can do a better job of controlling the light in my room thru better blinds if need be.

I'm gonna wait a few more months and see how the other brands look but I must say the Mits impressed me right off the bat.

Originally posted by Auditor55
At Good Guy's on Stevens Creek and Winchester. I actually purchase it from Andersons TV & Stereo a few miles up on Stevens Creek. I'm expecting delivery today.
Now the fun begins.

Originally posted by jaime2221
BTW: I don't know what Netcommad is yet (just what I need, another topic to research :rolleyes:)... anyone with a good reference link on this?
It's best use would be with Mitsubishi components equipped with Netcommand too. That would allow you to connect everything with firewire cables -- one per component. There is a way to include non Mitsubishi/Firewire components too. It's your very own command control center using a single remote and the TV screen to control everything. Given an all Mitsubishi setup the wire mess should be reduced too.

I don't know how many Netcommand components have been released by Mitsubishi or what kinds of problems have cropped up.

Sounds like another non-standard :rolleyes: . Could be useful for an all-Mits setup but I can't see them doing a D*V STB, and unlikely an HD-TIVO so the rats-nest isn't gone, just reduced. Thanks for the info.

I think it is wonderful that Samsung is finally getting some competition--their HD2+ sets better deliver or they may not be Undisputed King of the Mountain any longer. That is great for consumers. I don't think Samsung is going to fall off a cliff, but at least now they'll have to work!

damn... You all are making it difficult to hold out for the other sets much longer...

:D

Originally posted by Auditor55
I actually purchase it from Andersons TV & Stereo a few miles up on Stevens Creek. I'm expecting delivery today.

Sweet! Congratulations. :D Hey, wait a minute....did they mention anything about the fan to you??? You can't be getting yours before me. ;)

Originally posted by Jet Champion
I think it is wonderful that Samsung is finally getting some competition--their HD2+ sets better deliver or they may not be Undisputed King of the Mountain any longer. That is great for consumers. I don't think Samsung is going to fall off a cliff, but at least now they'll have to work!



Yep, Samsung has some serious competition from a name company like Mitsubishi.

If the JVC and the Toshiba's work out as good sets....then ole Sammy will have to price their DLP's even better.

In case anyone is wondering, today while at pc richards in NY I got information regarding availability dates of the MITS dlps.

They already have the 52 inch 5 series.
The 62 inch 5 series is coming by mid July.

They have the 7 series 52 scheduled to come mid July
The 62 inch 7 series is scheduled for 9/01/04

.... Not sure if they will get the Diamonds

BTW, the salesman said the warantee extension DID include bulbs and was $399 with in-home service


Craig

___________________________________________________________

WILL THIS INSANITY NEVER END.... I want a new TV now!!!!

Sorry if I sound like that girl from Willie Wonka and the Chocholate Factory ("I want an umpa-loompa and I want it now"). I get the feeling that most of us can't stand the HD3,HD2+,1080chip wait any longer:mad:

Originally posted by Reynard
Sweet! Congratulations. :D Hey, wait a minute....did they mention anything about the fan to you??? You can't be getting yours before me. ;)

No mention of the fan. I can't hear any fan noise right now.

Good Guys on Sports Arena Blvd. in San Diego has the 52 inch.

The salesman there has no idea there are different DLP chips, but that is another story.

I was really impressed with it, except for the incredibly reflective screen. It was next to an HD3 (HLP) and an HD2 (HLN), and I thought it was much better than either. It is a very nice looking set in person, but it also costs quite a bit more than the Samsungs. A bit too much in my opinion.

Go check it out if you live in San Diego

I went to see the Mitsubishi at my local GG. They had it next to the Samsung HLP 50. Although I had read the comments about the reflective screen on this board, I wasn't prepared for how bad it really was. I know some people can control for poor lighting conditions, but that is not an option for me. I was watching the tv from roughly 10' away. I could clearly see what was on the TV's on the other side of the room, behind were I was sitting, as well as my own reflection on the screen. Other than the reflection issue, I was impressed by the PQ compared to the HLP sitting next to it.

I know some people have been told the screen can be removed. Has anyone actually tried this or seen it w/out the reflective screen?

Originally posted by remotepc
I went to see the Mitsubishi at my local GG. They had it next to the Samsung HLP 50. Although I had read the comments about the reflective screen on this board, I wasn't prepared for how bad it really was. I know some people can control for poor lighting conditions, but that is not an option for me. I was watching the tv from roughly 10' away. I could clearly see what was on the TV's on the other side of the room, behind were I was sitting, as well as my own reflection on the screen. Other than the reflection issue, I was impressed by the PQ compared to the HLP sitting next to it.

I know some people have been told the screen can be removed. Has anyone actually tried this or seen it w/out the reflective screen?

I haven't tried with my set. I don't think I will right now. The manual has instructions on how to remove the glare screen. If you always watch TV in real bright rooms you get a lot of glare. I have dark blinds that kind of controls the light, I still get some glare but not that bad that I can't wait until the sun goes down.

Anyone figure out whether or not the Mitsubishi's have an 8 segment color wheel as had been speculated earlier in the thread? Panasonic claims to have an 8 SCW in their new DLP sets. Just curious.

7 segment for the mitsubishi...

Those Panasonic engineers are pretty good. Like to see what the results look like with the 8 segment.

Originally posted by JimP
Those Panasonic engineers are pretty good. Like to see what the results look like with the 8 segment.

Yeah - too bad they are horrible at coming up with practical aesthetics - side speakers, that stupid notched bottom.

Auditor55,

How are details in dark scenes on this set? For example, if you have Spiderman on DVD, check out the scene where the green goblin drops off MJ on the Bridge. On the Samsung HLN, this scene was very dim. And in my opinion the HLP is not the best in this area also. I'm curious as to how much improvement the HD2+ chips have in this area.

Htwaits,

When are you going to give us a Finding Nemo review on the Mitsubishi DLP:D .

I'm looking forward to seeing the Mitsubishi. I'm also interested in the Toshiba and Panasonic but hate the design with the pedestal and side speakers. I did a custom entertainment center (still in the works) with a Samsung 61" HLN. I have to rework the TV area for any of these sets but it'll be easier for the Mistubishi than to max out the width for the Toshiba!
Check out my pics to see what I mean:

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showgallery.php?mcats=all&si=&what=allfields&name=xb1032&when=&whenterm=

Originally posted by xb1032
Auditor55,

How are details in dark scenes on this set? For example, if you have Spiderman on DVD, check out the scene where the green goblin drops off MJ on the Bridge. On the Samsung HLN, this scene was very dim. And in my opinion the HLP is not the best in this area also. I'm curious as to how much improvement the HD2+ chips have in this area.

Htwaits,

When are you going to give us a Finding Nemo review on the Mitsubishi DLP:D .

I'm looking forward to seeing the Mitsubishi. I'm also interested in the Toshiba and Panasonic but hate the design with the pedestal and side speakers. I did a custom entertainment center (still in the works) with a Samsung 61" HLN. I have to rework the TV area for any of these sets but it'll be easier for the Mistubishi than to max out the width for the Toshiba!
Check out my pics to see what I mean:

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showgallery.php?mcats=all&si=&what=allfields&name=xb1032&when=&whenterm=

I have Spiderman and I will check that scene out. I since they just delivered yesterday afternoon, I haven't really had time to do all my set- ups, tweaks and adjustments. But just out the box, the sets does very well with blacks.

I need someone else to purchase one of these sets so we tweak thread going:)

Originally posted by xb1032
Htwaits,
When are you going to give us a Finding Nemo review on the Mitsubishi DLP:D .

As soon as I can find a Mitsubishi and a DVI enabled DVD player in the same spot. Maybe in a week or two. :)

Has anyone queried about a Mits DLP Power Buy? If so where is more info?

I saw the 52" at The Big Screen Store in Fredericksburg, VA on Sunday. Lighting the the store was controlled so the reflective screen was not bothersome. I was super impressed with SD on the Mits. WOW!

I was soooo close to ordering a Sammy 50" but now I have to reevaluate.

Originally posted by VA Ringer
Has anyone queried about a Mits DLP Power Buy? If so where is more info?

I saw the 52" at The Big Screen Store in Fredericksburg, VA on Sunday. Lighting the the store was controlled so the reflective screen was not bothersome. I was super impressed with SD on the Mits. WOW!

I was soooo close to ordering a Sammy 50" but now I have to reevaluate.


Really, because my SD right now is not good. I guess that is to be expect when you are pulling signals from a 35 year old cable infrastucture that is in bad need of upgrade/rebuild.

Originally posted by VA Ringer
Has anyone queried about a Mits DLP Power Buy? If so where is more info? Don't hold your breath on that. Mitsubishi has a very tightly controlled dealer network. They do not authorize any internet/mail order. Any purchases from non-authorized dealers invalidates the warranty and Mits will not honor it.

Originally posted by VA Ringer
Has anyone queried about a Mits DLP Power Buy? If so where is more info?

I saw the 52" at The Big Screen Store in Fredericksburg, VA on Sunday. Lighting the the store was controlled so the reflective screen was not bothersome. I was super impressed with SD on the Mits. WOW!

I was soooo close to ordering a Sammy 50" but now I have to reevaluate.

Is your local Big Screen Store offering the same interest free financing on the DLP? There are two local to me and I was wondering if they would give the same offer on the latest models.

Saw the Mitsu at another PC Richards in New Hyde Park. This store has real bad lighting so the Tv didn't do well there at all. Too much reflections from the high intensity lighting they use there.

It would do much better over in a darker corner but thats the way they display things at this store.

Still the picture was fine of what I could see.

WS-55813 or WD-52725-825?

I'm on the fence now, anyone have any idea witch one would be better quality? I'm a big DVD fan and I know DVD's would prob look better on a CRT but HD-DVD is just around the corner. I also do watch allot of HD. Price is no concern, if the sets were the same price what would you get?

Is your local Big Screen Store offering the same interest free financing on the DLP? There are two local to me and I was wondering if they would give the same offer on the latest models.

Sorry, I did not check about the financing. Honestly, 4K is outta my range. That is why I was asking about the PB. Its looking like 50" Sammy for me unless the toshibas/pannys surprise me. The RCA or LG just are not up to par yet.
Thanks for the replies!

Originally posted by RyeMan1
WS-55813 or WD-52725-825?

I'm on the fence now, anyone have any idea witch one would be better quality? I'm a big DVD fan and I know DVD's would prob look better on a CRT but HD-DVD is just around the corner. I also do watch allot of HD. Price is no concern, if the sets were the same price what would you get? The DLP will overall be brighter and sharper. Otherwise, the CRT will have a better picture overall. If you can control ambient light in your viewing area and don't mind keeping the CRTs aligned (manual convergence should be touched up every 90-180 days), the CRT is a much better buy. Professional calibration is recommended.

Marc

Some would say that the brighter sharper picture was the better one.

In what way would you say that the CRT RPTVs (you were talking about rptvs?) are better.

Thanks

(OT) The CRTs will also suffer from burn in and color changes over time -- (If you watch SD or letterboxing or use a PC you aggravate that burn in issue). On a DLP just replace a $200-$400 bulb in a DLP they are like new -- on a CRT you are looking at $1800 or more to change the three bulbs and have them realligned.

Yes, I forgot to add that CRT are subject to burn-in with prolonged viewing of static images. CRTs benefit more from professional calibration and are not always very good OOTB.

CRTs still produce the the most consistent image over the entire IRE range once setup properly.

Let's please not turn this into a debate over projection technologies. Use the search to read past debates.

Thanks for your responces. Any one have any idea of life of a DLP TV? I have seen two TV's, one Samsung and one Optoma, with one pixel out of commission at the store, any big probs with that?

Originally posted by RyeMan1
Any one have any idea of life of a DLP TV?

It's "expected" to be long.

I have seen two TV's, one Samsung and one Optoma, with one pixel out of commission at the store, any big probs with that?

It doesn't seem to be a common problem and should be very rare that it happens after the chip is manufactured.

So far everyone in this forum who has reported having a dead mirror has also reported that Samsung replaced the light engine.

Because the apparent numbers of Optoma sets is so small there is no track record for them on dead mirrors.

From what I can see the only difference between the 525, 725, and the 825 are the features. Picture quality should be the same with each. My only question is would spending the say $500 more for the 725 and the anti glare screen over the 525 be a good idea, or should I just take the Diamond Shield off the 525 and save the money?

gbsnplr

You raise a good question. The problem with trying to answer this is that these sets are too new for anyone to be able to answer you from a standpoint of actual experience. Has anyone actually taken the glare screen off and can say definitively that you don't have other problems?

Personally, I really like Mitsubishi's. But I doubt that I'd jump in until these sets have been out for a while.

Originally posted by gbsnplr
From what I can see the only difference between the 525, 725, and the 825 are the features. Picture quality should be the same with each. My only question is would spending the say $500 more for the 725 and the anti glare screen over the 525 be a good idea, or should I just take the Diamond Shield off the 525 and save the money?

I have this set and I'm going to try taking off the glare screen and report
back with the results. Just watching some material on it, even in light controlled rooms, the glare screen can be problematic. If you are watching something that's bright, I was watching the MLB Allstar game last night in Fox(WS, not HD) and it really looked nice. If you watching something with deep blacks you lose detail, I think the glare screen contributes to that.

Originally posted by JimP
gbsnplr

You raise a good question. The problem with trying to answer this is that these sets are too new for anyone to be able to answer you from a standpoint of actual experience. Has anyone actually taken the glare screen off and can say definitively that you don't have other problems?

Personally, I really like Mitsubishi's. But I doubt that I'd jump in until these sets have been out for a while.

I can tell you right now, in regards to PQ, I think the Mits are equal to the other DLP's that are out there right now. Given the current state of DLP technology I don't any of the upcoming Samsungs, Toshiba's, Panny's or Mits are really going to exceed the other in PQ. Some wll have strenghts and some will have weaknesses. Being a first time buyer of a DLP TV, I was very skeptical of DLP along with LCOS, LCD and Plasma and still kind miss my old CRT, so if you are going to wait you should simply for more maturity of the technology itself.

BTW, I wish someone else would purchase one of these TV's, I need someone to converse with, I still have to read Samsung post to get advice on setting up my Mits set.

Originally posted by VA Ringer
Sorry, I did not check about the financing. Honestly, 4K is outta my range. That is why I was asking about the PB. Its looking like 50" Sammy for me unless the toshibas/pannys surprise me. The RCA or LG just are not up to par yet.
Thanks for the replies!


I did not pay 4K for my set, try to get them to give you a discount.

Originally posted by htwaits
It's best use would be with Mitsubishi components equipped with Netcommand too. That would allow you to connect everything with firewire cables -- one per component. There is a way to include non Mitsubishi/Firewire components too. It's your very own command control center using a single remote and the TV screen to control everything. Given an all Mitsubishi setup the wire mess should be reduced too.

I don't know how many Netcommand components have been released by Mitsubishi or what kinds of problems have cropped up.


Netcommand is awesome!! And the features these new Mits sets have are just great. The TV is so easy to use, so easy to set up. The built in ATSC tuner is great!! I don't have to use and extra component video input for an external tuner.

The biggest problem that I'm having is getting the picture setting right. The digital cable signal is bad, poor PQ from it, I had to tweak the TV a bit to get an some what acceptable picture and that's a reach. I switched to analog OTA and the picture quality improved. I went to the digital OTA and the PQ doubled from the digital cable feed, much better, clear, bright and sharp as hell. Watching channel 2 news I could see every blemish on Dennis Richmond's face(if you live in the Bay Area you know who he is).

Thanks for the help. My main issue is to determine to wiat for the 725 set or just go get the 525 and remove the glare screen. I will get another HDTiVo so I can't see waiting for the 825 with the built in 120 gig hard drive since I can't see any picture quality increases.

OT does anyone know when the Toshiba will be out I am interested to see if the 8 segment color wheel makes any difference. (note I think it was 8 segment :))

Don't worry there Auditor55, this weekend & I'll be in the mix with you. TV coming in the am, cable guy (for HDTV) coming in the afternoon.

As this HT upgrading isn't limited to just a new tv, I decided to get a dedicated dvd player as well (have been using the Xbox). Was trying to decide between the Denon 910, Momitsu & Zenith 318. Went for the 318 in the end & should have that early next week. Already have my DVI -> HDMI cable waiting. :D

I viewed the Mits 52" 525 at UE (Soundtrack) in CO last week. All DLPs, LCDs, and RP CRTs were displaying satellite Discovery HD feed via coax (ANT-1).

The picture of the 525 was better than the other DLPs and LCDs, though I am hardly an expert. The glare was rather severe and distracting at times. Since I would be using it in a soon-to-be-finished basement with complete control of lighting, I think the glare would be manageable for me.

With that being said, I think I will wait to see the 725 and the Toshiba models before making a purchase. It would also be very nice to view these sets via Component/HDMI.

Originally posted by Reynard
Sweet! Congratulations. :D Hey, wait a minute....did they mention anything about the fan to you??? You can't be getting yours before me. ;)

I finally heard the fan. Is there supposed to be fix for it?

glad to hear Soundtrack has one, I will need to get by there to check it out.
Jeff

I was told by my guy that, "some of the WD-52525's had the fan mounted incorrectly causing excessive fan noise." He wanted to make sure my set was checked before I recieved it, hence the week delay.

As for the fix, I'm not sure if all it is is a re-mount of the existing fan or a replacement part. Actually, the more I think about, pretty sure it was the latter because I think he mentioned something about the updated parts arriving this week. That's why he wanted to wait for delivery because if my set needed them, they would be readily available....yeah, that's the ticket. :)

What's the serial number range on the defective WD-52525's. Is there a way to detect if a set has the fan mounted incorrectly. Does the fan need to be replaced, I was going to pickup a WD-52525 before Mitsubishi's cool 0% finance deal runs at the end of July. However I may have to go with a safer bet - maybe a Panny? I just do not want issues with a $3.800 DLP.

Originally posted by twohype
However I may have to go with a safer bet - maybe a Panny? I just do not want issues with a $3.800 DLP.
Why do you think a Panasonic will be less trouble. There last DLP model had serious flickering and power problems? In fact, Panasonic announced that they were dropping out of the DLP market, and then changed there mind several months later.

After hearing that I had purchased a Mitsubishi WS-65813, I think my father got a little bit jealous. He called me last night and said he had gone to his local Tweeter store and purchased a WD-62825. He said that it would not be in until mid September, but at least he would have it for most of football season. He really knows absolutely nothing about DLP TVs; accept that he wouldn't have to worry about burn in, which was his reason for picking the DLP over the CRT. Can anyone give me any reason why purchasing a WD-62825 would be a bad decision while my dad still has time to get his money back?

pbmax542

Last year, I was waiting to see the 65813s before making a decision on purchasing a new TV. My local Mits dealer kept putting off the delivery date. After two months, I decided to go with another set.

Point is if your dad bought the 62825 with the idea of getting it in at a specific time to watch football, he might be disappointed that the set hadn't arrived. Quality wise, it's probably going to be one of the best sets out there.

Originally posted by pbmax542
After hearing that I had purchased a Mitsubishi WS-65813, I think my father got a little bit jealous. He called me last night and said he had gone to his local Tweeter store and purchased a WD-62825. He said that it would not be in until mid September, but at least he would have it for most of football season. He really knows absolutely nothing about DLP TVs; accept that he wouldn't have to worry about burn in, which was his reason for picking the DLP over the CRT. Can anyone give me any reason why purchasing a WD-62825 would be a bad decision while my dad still has time to get his money back?


1) I don't he or anyone should purchase a set without seeing it. Bad! Bad! idea.

2) He may not like the DLP picture.

3) $$$ may be more than a CRT, with less picture quality.

4) The fact that DLP is an infant technology, could mean trouble down the road, just read all the problems folks are having with Samsung's. I just purchased the a 52 inch Mits set and I'm scared that I'm going to start experiencing many of the problems that the Samsung owners are experiencing. This is my first jump into DLP technology, I have 30 day's to return it. I might return for one of the new Mits CRT's because I know CRT's are tried and true.

Originally posted by twohype
What's the serial number range on the defective WD-52525's. Is there a way to detect if a set has the fan mounted incorrectly. Does the fan need to be replaced,

All I know is what I've already posted so far. Sorry. :(

I tried to talk him into getting a CRT, but he is really worried about burn in. He says that he doesn't want to stretch out 4:3 images, and despite the fact he is in his 50s; the man plays a lot of video games. He said that he looked at some of the other DLP TVs in the store, and was pleased with their picture quality. I don't know if he paid any attention to black levels, which from what I hear is one of DLPs weaknesses.

What extra features do the Diamond series have over the other ones? More inputs, higher res, better screen? I just hope that there new line-up as the ability to disable NetCommand. It is driving me crazy on my new Mits.

Diamond has a PVR with a 120GB drive and a better anti-glare screen.

Originally posted by pbmax542
I tried to talk him into getting a CRT, but he is really worried about burn in. He says that he doesn't want to stretch out 4:3 images, and despite the fact he is in his 50s; the man plays a lot of video games. He said that he looked at some of the other DLP TVs in the store, and was pleased with their picture quality. I don't know if he paid any attention to black levels, which from what I hear is one of DLPs weaknesses.

What extra features do the Diamond series have over the other ones? More inputs, higher res, better screen? I just hope that there new line-up as the ability to disable NetCommand. It is driving me crazy on my new Mits.


You don't have to use Netcommand. I'm not using it now because I wanted to get to PQ settings first, but I can't wait to start using it, I think Netcommand is awesome. So easy to set up, so user friendly. In the future I'm only going to purchase products that can interface with my TV via Firewire.

If your fathers concerns about purchasing a CRT are as you stated, purchasing a DLP was the right choice as there are no burn in issues with watching 4:3 images and playing video games, so stop trying to make you dad have buyers remorse:)

Originally posted by UMD_Terp
Diamond has a PVR with a 120GB drive and a better anti-glare screen.


I'm still puzzled why Mits would make a set with a glare screen and one without it. Most other DLP and LCD manufacturers make sets without glare screens, they don't market them as anti-glare, anti-glare is a just standard.

Almost all CRT's come with the glare screen. I always thought the glare screen was meant as a protective screen, to keep the actual screen on your TV sets from scratches, nicks, coffee stains, etc. On CRT's RPTV's, they used to have them doors that you could close to protect the screen. Now the protective screen has become the infamous "glare" screen.

From what I understand, what's causing the glare is the protective screen, or is it true that if you remove the protective screen you will still get glare?

Originally posted by Auditor55
I'm still puzzled why Mits would make a set with a glare screen and one without it. Originally posted by JimP
....these highly reflective screens is one way that Mits uses to differentiate the lower priced sets from their top models.Originally posted by Auditor55
From what I understand, what's causing the glare is the protective screen, or is it true that if you remove the protective screen you will still get glare? Yes, once you remove the protective screen the glare will be eliminated.

Originally posted by Auditor55
I'm still puzzled why Mits would make a set with a glare screen and one without it. Most other DLP and LCD manufacturers make sets without glare screens, they don't market them as anti-glare, anti-glare is a just standard.

Almost all CRT's come with the glare screen. I always thought the glare screen was meant as a protective screen, to keep the actual screen on your TV sets from scratches, nicks, coffee stains, etc. On CRT's RPTV's, they used to have them doors that you could close to protect the screen. Now the protective screen has become the infamous "glare" screen.

From what I understand, what's causing the glare is the protective screen, or is it true that if you remove the protective screen you will still get glare?

Yes, it's true that if you remove the polished screen there will be less glare. But according to a Mits rep I was talking to, the problem with removing it is that the image-formation screen beneath the polished screen is not designed to be an exterior screen - it is fragile and hard to clean. It isn't just a case of your standard anti-glare screen with the polished screen to protect it. The two screens are designed to be used together. Also, the edges of the cabinet will look rough and there will be no Mitsubishi name/logo under the screen (if that's important to you) if you take it off. The logic behind the polished screen is that some people prefer the extra-clear look of the screen in GOOD lighting conditions - no anti-glare screen streaks, haze, etc. Best bet is to wait for the WD52725 or WD62725.

Mike D

Not really what I wanted to hear about the screen under the protective screen. I've always hated those plastic covers-the lighting environment has to be perfect, or it's just not watchable to me. Lamps, sunlight...anything will reflect off of it.

If it's true that the screen underneath is fragile, and can't be cleaned, it could be a deal-breaker. I don't need the PVR.

I hope Samsung can get their new stuff to the market soon. Iwant to compare!

To all the 52525 owners in the the forum, how many of you really have defective fans. Maybe the problem is not really wide spead? Who knows?

Has anyone bought a Mits DLP?

That is a truly classic example of posting before reading. Read the thread.

Originally posted by mdenero
Yes, it's true that if you remove the polished screen there will be less glare. But according to a Mits rep I was talking to, the problem with removing it is that the image-formation screen beneath the polished screen is not designed to be an exterior screen - it is fragile and hard to clean. It isn't just a case of your standard anti-glare screen with the polished screen to protect it. The two screens are designed to be used together. Also, the edges of the cabinet will look rough and there will be no Mitsubishi name/logo under the screen (if that's important to you) if you take it off. The logic behind the polished screen is that some people prefer the extra-clear look of the screen in GOOD lighting conditions - no anti-glare screen streaks, haze, etc. Best bet is to wait for the WD52725 or WD62725.

Mike D


I will consider what you are saying, however I'm a little skeptical about that explanation. I wonder if its Mits way of justifying the extra cost for the 725. With Mits line of CRT's, they all was had the gold, platinum and diamond lines with noticeable PQ differences, with the DLP lines there aren't any promises of PQ differences, just anti-glare screens, and PVR's which are used to justify quality and price differences. Also, the Diamonds will probably look better externally, they always do.

BTW, the saleperson gave me the option to exchange my 525 for the 725 even if its past the 30 days, but of course for an extra $500.00

Originally posted by mdenero
the problem with removing it is that the image-formation screen beneath the polished screen is not designed to be an exterior screen - it is fragile and hard to clean. It isn't just a case of your standard anti-glare screen with the polished screen to protect it. The two screens are designed to be used together. Also, the edges of the cabinet will look rough and there will be no Mitsubishi name/logo under the screen (if that's important to you) if you take it off. Completely untrue!

Please see page 92 of the user manual for cleaning instructions, 93 for removal. The protective screen is designed to be removed. In fact, don't be surpised if the Diamond comes with the screen detached.

http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/manuals.html

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
Completely untrue!

Mark I just read the manual and I agree. Mitsubishi tells you how to remove the screen and how to clean the one under it. It looks to me like the rep quoted above was just being cautious or overly practical. They even tell you how to "store" the protective screen. :D

I called my Local Big Screen Store and they said that they just got one 525 in yesterday... I am going to go check it out tomorrow hopefully... :D

So anyone with the 525 & removed screen want to chime in about how easy it is to clean (and PQ while you're at it).

Originally posted by remotepc
So anyone with the 525 & removed screen want to chime in about how easy it is to clean (and PQ while you're at it). I have cleaned the screen on my CRT Mits with just a damp rag several times.

I doubt anyone with a 525 would need cleaning for at least 6-12 months unless somebody clumsy spilled or splashed something on it (which I have done ).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4068183#post4068183

I went and finally saw the 525 today. Overall it performed just as many other people have said. They had a DiscoveryHD loop running and it was hooked up via component inputs. I asked about HDMI, but the salesman said their store was not wired up for it. Black levels were great as was the overall HD PQ. Colors were very bright and it picture was sharp... much more so than the current HLP samsungs. I did however notice a slight amount of dithering at one point in the loop. No rainbows at all as far as I could see. I also viewed some 4:3 SD on it using the built in OTA tuner. SD was displayed in stretch mode and was certainly watchable. I was viewing the set from 8 feet and the SD feed looked ok. I bet if it wasn't in stretch mode it would have looked better. They didn't have a DVD hooked up to it so I couldn't see how a 480P feed would look.

The showroom was dark so the glare screen was no issue at all. Aesthetically, I think the Samsung DLPs look a little better. The speakers at the bottom take up a good 7" from the base of the set to the screen. Apparantly they had just received this set 3 days ago and had it listed for full price. The salesman pretty much said outright that since the TV was so new the price was higher and it would most likely come down over the next months when the 725 and 825 models arrive.

I still want to check out the Toshiba HD2+ set and maybe the Samsung 77 series if they are available within a reasonable amount of time.

Auditor55,

Did you ever get a chance to try out Spiderman? How do blacks look at night? Just curious. The Mits and Toshiba are at the top of my list, however I've seen neither in person.

For everyone who have managed to locate and test one of the Mitsubishi models ....have you seen any of the audio/video sync issues crop up that the HLN/HLP Samsung's seem to all have to varying degrees?

Originally posted by xb1032
Auditor55,

Did you ever get a chance to try out Spiderman? How do blacks look at night? Just curious. The Mits and Toshiba are at the top of my list, however I've seen neither in person.


Yes and it wasn't that great on the Spiderman disc, although the Mits DLP's does blacks real well. I don't think Spiderman look good on Samsungs or Mits. Haven't seen the Toshiba' but some are saying its a real good set.

Are you guys using regular Spiderman, or superbit? I was not impressed at all with the first Spiderman release video quality.

Originally posted by bayork
For everyone who have managed to locate and test one of the Mitsubishi models ....have you seen any of the audio/video sync issues crop up that the HLN/HLP Samsung's seem to all have to varying degrees?

I noticed it once before, can't say if it was the source or the TV.

One of my friends reviewed and purchased the Mitsu 52525 today and it gets installed tomorrow. I'll see how well it handles, but I'm thinking we may have made a mistake not waiting for the 725 with the different non-glare screen. Does anyone know when the 725's are supposed to ship?

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
I have cleaned the screen on my CRT Mits with just a damp rag several times.

I doubt anyone with a 525 would need cleaning for at least 6-12 months unless somebody clumsy spilled or splashed something on it (which I have done ).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4068183#post4068183

You all should be happy Marc is around to keep the facts in order. I do not have as much time lately to keep up with all the posts and Marc has been doing a hell of a job. He should be a mod here. Good job Marc. :cool: :cool: :cool:

Originally posted by Sevenfeet
One of my friends reviewed and purchased the Mitsu 52525 today and it gets installed tomorrow. I'll see how well it handles, but I'm thinking we may have made a mistake not waiting for the 725 with the different non-glare screen. Does anyone know when the 725's are supposed to ship?

Sometime in August. Ask your dealer to let you exchange your 525 for 725 when the 725 comes in, that is if you are still unsatisfied with the protective screen on the 525.

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
Are you guys using regular Spiderman, or superbit? I was not impressed at all with the first Spiderman release video quality.

I used the original. I have both but w/o a new set I'm not sure how much better the superbit version is. I was curious about Spiderman just as an example to see in general how well the HD2+ sets handle dark scenes. The Samsung HLN HD2 performed poorly in this area. Not to mention that blacks at night are bad.

My friend took delivery of his set today and I came over to his house to configure it. I was hoping that being the owner of a 6 month old 2004 Mitsu 65" TV that is new DLP Mitsu wouldn't be that much different in the grand scheme of things.

One thing for sure is that owners of the better (read: Diamond) RPTV CRT Mitsubishi sets are still going to very happy with their sets...for now. But this generation of DLP is damn good. Eventually the CRT Mitsu televisions will be history and you'll have DLP to thank/curse. This generation of DLP still doesn't do everything as well as the CRTs, but it's nice enough that most people won't care.

The first order of business was to ditch the reflective screen. Many here have complained about it. If it bothers you that much and if you don't have young children, have the installers remove it, or remove it youself. Once off, the picture is similar to the Samsungs I've seen in terms of glare.

The TVs available inputs pretty much mimick the 65813 I own with the exception of HDMI (versus DVI) and CableCard. Curiously, the CableCard slot is behind a metal shield screwed into the back panel...I think they only want cable TV installers to put this thing in, but I suppose anyone with a screwdriver could install one. It was moot anyway since we used a Motorola 5100 digital HD cable box.

I've ordered a DVI-HDMI cable from Bettercables for my friend, so in the meantime, we used component cables from Monster for the cablebox. Analog cable standard defintion looked okay to crappy depending on the amount of snow that sometimes gets into the picture from Comcast...this was not unexpected. Digital cable channels looked better and HD looked stunning. My 65813 still has a film quality inherit in the old skool technology that DLP just can't match, but the digital clarity of the DLP image was not distracting to my eye...just different.

After seeing the color on previous generation Samsungs, this Mitsubishi was far more lifelike than those past DLPs, and especially with the greens. It used to be that DLP and LCD sets were pretty easy to distinquish...now it's a lot closer. There's still some red push that I'd like to see if I can eliminate with PerfectColor...but thankfully no green push. Blacks seemed pretty nice, but my CRT-based Mits still rules the roost here.

Since I hadn't spent a lot of time with a 720p set before, I tried to notice the difference between it and my 1080i native Mitsu. Unfortunately, I didn't have time to make a truly apples-apples comparison. First, I use Comcast strictly to get HD programming that Comcast doesn't scramble, which means I depend on the QAM tuner and the Mitsu's internal scaler. My friend has a Motorola cable box set for 720p output from Moto's scaler. So channels like ESPN-HD made Sportcenter look amazing. 1080i channels like INHD and Discovery HD Theater looked nice, but not as nice as my Mits. I'm not sure whether or not the Moto's scaler is to blame, but I'll try to get a better comparison later.

One big surprise was DVD playback. Since we don't have the DVI-HDMI cable yet, I was forced to use an older s-video cable for DVD playback for the time being. This was what was being used before since the previous Sony RPTV didn't have component inputs (and neither does his DA30ES receiver from 5 years ago either). This generation of Mitsus upscale everything to 720p...which makes sense with a digital TV since there is no way to properly present 480p on a 720p technology without scaling. I got to watch only one movie (Chicago) and was amazed at what the set could do with a less than ideal s-video signal. When we looked at the same set in the store, it was hooked up to a Samsung 841 through DVI. I tried the Samsung with a 720p feed and it was good, but not outstanding. The Mitsu's handling of DVD via s-video and scaling to 720p surprised me. I'm looking forward to see it do component video.

One major problem of the evening was the Harmony 659 remote we got to control everything. This Mitsubishi TV is so new that it's not in Harmony's database. For some reason even though Mitsu TVs don't seem to change that much over the model years, the Harmony seemed to have trouble with this unit when I asked it to mimick an older Mitsu TV. I even saw instances of the TV shutting down due to bad codes being sent to it (the shutdown issue is a well known 'feature' of Mitsu TVs). The Harmony also had problems with the 5 year old receiver, so I still have some work to do with it.

More to come in the next few days as I calibrate it with Avia and DVE.

ok i went and did my own new topic not realizing this was here. so here i go again. i rated the 525 on a scale of 2-8 with 8 being the best and 4 being average. i used composite cable for sat feed, composite for dvd and rca for vhs and laser disc. this is straight out of the box. HD-8, DVd-7, LD-5
Super VHS-#, and SAT feed depending on channel-4. I wrote I was taking set back and I am, for $4k less 10% didn't think it was worth it. Had fan noise but not noticable when speakers going. The reflective screen is not an issue since I control the light plus with kids its a good thing to have. the cable was too heavy to use the DVI form my Dish 811 to the Mits HDMI,
Had to piggy back it so i could connect it. but wouldnt stay in properly.
in all this is a good set, yes but for $4k could not justify it now.

Sevenfeet,

Thanks for the great report. Will look forward to your future insight.

I just visit the local tweeters in MD and they told me that the Mits 525 has been recall because of the fan use the cable card device. Did anyone else hear this information?

Originally posted by omega379
I just visit the local tweeters in MD and they told me that the Mits 525 has been recall because of the fan use the cable card device. Did anyone else hear this information?

There might be something to that. I haven't tried the Cablecard because Comcast doesn't offer HDTV where I live, but I know that the set's fan makes noise.

Originally posted by omega379
I just visit the local tweeters in MD and they told me that the Mits 525 has been recall because of the fan use the cable card device. Did anyone else hear this information?

look for The Big Screen Store... they will have one on display. I saw one at the store they have right off of route 40 in Ellicott City.

Originally posted by UMD_Terp
look for The Big Screen Store... they will have one on display. I saw one at the store they have right off of route 40 in Ellicott City.


Mitsubishi is aware of the fan noise issue. They said there's a fix for it. You have to call your authorized service center.

I personally choose to replace my set for one without the fan noise. My dealer said they will make arrangements to do the exchange. So apparently there's a "bad" batch of Mits sets out there with the fan noise and some without it.

Thank god!!

Originally posted by eljonron
i rated the 525 on a scale of 2-8 with 8 being the best and 4 being average. i used composite cable for sat feed, composite for dvd and rca for vhs and laser disc. LOL...nothing like a non-linear scale.:)

I assume you mean Component for sat and dvd, and composite/RCA for vhs and laser.

Originally posted by omega379
I just visit the local tweeters in MD and they told me that the Mits 525 has been recall because of the fan use the cable card device. Did anyone else hear this information?

Hadn't heard the term recall used, but yeah, about two weeks ago when folks here in the forum said the Mits were arriving in stores, I went in search of one here in the Dallas area. The rep at Ultimate Electronics said they sent their batch of Mits (525's) back because of fan noise.

Hadn't heard the term recall used, but yeah, about two weeks ago when folks here in the forum said the Mits were arriving in stores, I went in search of one here in the Dallas area. The rep at Ultimate Electronics said they sent their batch of Mits (525's) back because of fan noise.

Interesting....

I'm taking delivery on the Mits from UE tomorrow. My Arlington store just got them in on Monday, but I think my set is coming from the DFW area WH. Hopefully, without the fan noise. I didn't notice any noise on the store demo, so that's a good sign.

BTW, UE is a great retailer. Bought a Pinoneer HD530 there in November. Had the scan line problem 3 times, then Saturday it died completely. Went to the store and they offered FULL credit towards a new set!! Bought the HPL 5063 on Sunday, (out of stock - no delivery till Sat), saw the Mits on Monday, traded up to it today. Better picture. Colors are more "Pioneer" like, or film like if you prefer, to my eyes. Very good detail. Yes, lots-o-glare, but not much worse than my Pioneer. The Mits was about $500 more, but with their matching stands factored in, only a $400 dollar difference. And 2 more inches of real estate.

Cheers
Jeff

bump!

Wanted to live with it a bit before posting my initial at home impressions.

Took delivery on Saturday. The cable guy was actually early and beat the tv to my place. So when the set showed up, everybody was gone in 15 minutes & I had it all to myself, HDTV at the ready. :cool:

The next 2 hours consisted of hooking everything up (Receiver, Cable, SVHS, Laserdisc, Xbox, PS2 & DC). It took so long because I had to re-think everything wanting to use the NetCommand & getting my vcr connected right so I could tape one channel & watch another. Then I finally started to sit back relax and view some.

My first concern was of course how my SD cable would look compared to my old CRT. While there are a couple of my favorite channels that do look worse, there are also a couplee that look better. Overall I can safely say that it looks no worse then before and like I mentioned, in some cases, actually looks better. Trying to decide which picture mode to view it with was harder. Now after using it for a few days I like just keeping it 4:3 with the black columns. The exception being a letterboxed movie which works great in the expand mode.

The HDTV was another thing all together of course. This is nice stuff. :) Granted, the channels I get in HD are all the major networks, PBS, ESPN, Discovery, HDNet, HDNet Movies, HBO, Starz, Cinemax & only a couple of them will get regular viewing by me. Luckily the major one is HDNet and it looks simply amazing on this tv. :D Noticeably better then all the other HD channels with Discovery coming in second and the rest all nice but certainly not spectacular.

I was able to hook up my cable box to the tv with the DVI -> HDMI cable I bought to use with my soon to arrive Zenith DVB318. While it didn't look any better then using components it's 2 less cables, which is good for me!

I got the 318 two nights ago & can tell you that it will not work at all with the DVI -> HDMI cable. Literally will not respond in any way, shape or form apart from turning on the power. You literally have to unplug it to turn it off. I thought it was screwed & then just for the hell of it hooked it up via components and voila! No problems. So the cable box gets the DVI cable instead. That's fine by me.

Decided to pop in my Avia disc last night too. Came away feeling that it's really only meant for CRT's. Going through the standard basic video calibrations, only made things worse, especially for the game consoles. Didn't expect that. Otherwise the dvd's looked really nice compared to using my Xbox as the player (no surprise there eh?). However the difference between the players' 480p, 720p & 1080i upconversions are barely noticeable to me. I'd say I'm a bit disappointed with that because while the dvd's certainly do look nice, compared to the 'ol HDNet picture, everything simply pales. Probably had my expectations too high for the new DVD player. I figure that's the way it's going to be for a while...oh well. ;)

Popular areas of concern would seem to be the fan & the screen. I can hear the fan. I would not call it loud but then I've never owned a tv with a fan before so I'm comparing it to my game consoles or pc. It's definitely quieter then any of those machines.

The screen or rather the plexiglass "Diamond Shield" does reflect very well. However it seems no worse then the CRT it replaces. I of course added dark blue window blinds to my living room and can shut out the light if I want to pretty easily. Even then I can see reflections in the screen...if I look for them. That's it for me as typically when I 'm just relaxing and enjoying what's on the tv, I don't notice them at all. Maybe someday I'll take off the shield to see what difference it makes but right now, I'm not motivated enough to bother.

The biggest surprise to me has been my actually seeing rainbows. Something I've never really experienced before looking at DLP's in the stores. Well maybe just ever so slightly once or twice. Now though I notice them on dvd's in those areas where dark black meets bright white. I haven't really noticed them while watching tv or gaming at all. They also seem to be more noticeable to me later at night. When my eyes are tired. I wonder if that has anything to do with it. I think more likely though it is more to do with the source material as my beloved Blues Brothers dvd seems a particular bad example. :( Not really a problem, more of a curiosity right now.

So so far so good. It's basically like watching my old tv when I'm just watching casually but then, it can do all these neat new tricks when called upon. :cool: It's met & exceeded most of my expectations. My friend is going to build me a pc to hook up to it in the next month or two and that will be the next big test for the set. Well besides my Friday night game night tomorrow (which should be great).

Assuming nothing happens in the next 2 weeks to make me want to return it (looks good so far) I'm going to order up a spare bulb & I think I'll ask about getting another speaker cover for it, providing it's not more then $50. I'd like to try and paint it black as I'm still not so keen on the satin silver look of it.

Hey, I'm picky. ;)

Originally posted by Reynard
I got the 318 two nights ago & can tell you that it will not work at all with the DVI -> HDMI cable. Literally will not respond in any way, shape or form apart from turning on the power.

I think your DVD player "may" have to have DVI turned on in a setup menu before it will work using that output.

Now that you mention that, I think I remember reading that somewhere. Perhaps in the 200 page 318 thread. ;)

I know it dosen't say anything in the manual about switching it "on" in the setup. Honestly, right now, everything's hooked up & working fine, all the cables are bundled in plastic conduit, I don't want to go back there again if I don't have to! :eek:

I suppose once I get the pc thing rollin', I'll give it a try then.

The 318 has some issues on the DVI output but has a great component output...at least for 480p/1080i. Not sure about 720p.

I can't see a difference between any of them(480/720/1080) myself. <shrug>

Originally posted by Reynard
I can't see a difference between any of them(480/720/1080) myself. <shrug> That may mean that the Mits has great scaling.

Well, here's the info I said I would get. The promotion is open to people that can take part in the Mitsubishi BUCKS award program. These would be retail type people who earn points by selling Mitsus. The promotion started July 1 and goes through Sept 30. One year 0% financing is available at Mitsu retailers. All models (7) are available:

WD-52525 [($4000)
WD-52725 [($4200)
WD-52825 [($5500)
WD-62525 [($4500)
WD-62725 [($4800)
WD-62825 [($6000)
WD-82913 [($20000) x:

I think these are the MSRPs...I have personally only seen the 52525, 62525, and 52725 ones floating around until now. I think I might do the 62725...who knows. If anyone wants to get in on this, I suggest getting a job at a Mitsu dealer ASAP, it's a lot of "BLING" to save! ;)


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FINALLY!

I got to see the 52525 today. I'm VERY impressed. IT was sitting between a couple of HLN's.

At first glance, the HLN and 525 didn't seem much different. Then I sat down and really started to compare. They were running the same feed. Something about Carroll Shelby and the new GT-40.

One thing I really noticed is the detail in the Mitsu. You could really see the sun shining off the hood of the car like you were right there. The HLN was definitely NOT as lifelike.

Colors were much better. It just looked so much more vibrant-but natural.

The Mitsu was put on the floor yesterday. The contrast was tweaked WAY up. Of course, I brought it back down to realistic settings. Picture was still awesome.

The "glare" screen definitely has to go. While it wasn't really bad in the low-light setting of my Sound Advice, it was still bad. Sitting down and watching, I could see about every other TV that was behind me reflecting in it.

It's really a nice looking set in person. No bezel like on the Sammy. Almost made that bezel look really cheap and old-school.

So...since this is the last weekend of the no interest/no payments until 2006, I think I'll plunk my money on the 62525. It will be arriving in the store the first week of August.

The retail on the 52525 was $3999, and the 62525 was listed at $4499. I'm going to try to talk them down before I bite. I'm looking at a new DVD, too.

I certainly wish I could compare the new Sammy HD2+. It's too bad they won't be out for a few more weeks!