Just in case anyone here is interested in the same thing, I thought I'd post to say that I bought a Russound CAV6.6 6-room 6-zone audio/video system and installed 6 keypads in the walls around my apartment. I then wrote a Windows application to link the CAV6.6 up to J River's Media Center 10. So now I can control MC10 from the in-wall keypads, and the keypads display artist and track names. I use the next/prev buttons on the keypad to go to the next/prev track in the playlist, and use the +/- keypad buttons to go to the next/prev artist in the playlist.

So far it works really well, although I've only had it running for a couple of days now, and I'm sure I'll come up with tons of new ideas over the next few weeks. The CAV6.6 is totally awesome - you can control absolutely everything via its RS-232 port, and you get notified about everything, too. The only real weakness in the system is that the keypads can only show 12 characters at a time. Hopefully they'll come out with newer keypads sometime in the future that can display significantly more text, but for now I'm very happy with the whole setup.

If anyone here is interested in doing the same thing, just post here to let me know and I'd be more than happy to send you a copy of the program and even make modifications to it based on your suggestions.

I think it's fantastic that you've done this. I'm still in the "purchasing research" phase of looking for a whole house system (we used to call it shopping). Knowing that you've figured out a way to get CAV 6.6 back to MC10 is great news. I had looked at the CAV, but was recently intrigued by the new Yamaha system I saw in the latest Sound & Vision, where you can use in-wall keypads to control your mp3 collection. It sounds like your solution is best of both.

KevPriest

If it's the same Yamaha system I looked at a few months ago, then I believe it's a completely closed, proprietary system, which is not what I wanted. What I love about the CAV6.6 is that it's a very open system by the standards of this industry. The RS-232 protocol is documented on their website, so anyone can access it. I've found that many other products either use proprietary ports, or use RS-232 but refuse to give out the protocol documentation.

I am really glad that it all worked out so well, since it's a pretty big investment and AFAIK I am the first to do this, so I was a bit nervous as to whether I might hit a brick wall or two.

As I already wrote, the only limitation with the CAV6.6 is the 12-character display, but I got around that by toggling the display between artist and title, which works fine. There is a firmware update out now which allows you to scroll up to 34 characters of text on the display. Once I get some time I will download that and maybe use that as well. You can link up CAV6.6 controllers and have a 12-room system if you want, so there are no limitations on that front. AFAIK Russound don't allow keypads to be linked, but I have added support for that in software, so that when you adjust the volume in one room, the changes are reflected in another room. Basically anything is possible with Russound's RS-232 protocol.

FYI I am using a combination of Russound SP-H6TT, SP-S5TT, and SP-S6TT in-ceiling speakers, and they are also fantastic. I also have a Revel Ultima home theater, so I know good sound when I hear it, and the SP-H6TTs really are audiophile quality. Where it wasn't possible to install in-ceiling speakers, I went with Jamo on-wall speakers, which are OK but noticeably inferior to the Russound speakers, so I will replace them if and when I can find something better.

One more thing: I bought the speakers from http://www.bass-home.com/ and really wish I'd bought the CAV6.6 from him, too, since I would have saved a fortune. Good service and fantastic prices.

I would love a copy of your software please.

I have a russound coming very soon and was more than a bit scared of having to figure out the RS232 stuff for it.

Thanks!

You have mail. Note the following:

1) The software has no configuration whatsoever, and is hard-coded to use COM port 1. So just plug a 9-pin serial cable into COM1 on the PC, plug the other end into the CAV6.6, start cav66.exe, and you are in business. Note that the CAV6.6 has two RS-232 inputs: one on the front and one on the back. You can use either port, but only one of them is active at once, so make sure that the switch on the front is set appropriately.

2) The software is currently set to reflect everything that happens in zone 2 to zone 3. This is due to the setup at my place. I can make this a configuration option or whatever later, but I'm sure you will have other things you want changed so once you've had a chance to check it out we can make a list and do it all in one hit.

3) Another feature I added yesterday: the digit buttons on the CAV6.6 remote are now mapped such that 0 will take you to the first track in the current playlist, 1 will take you to the 10% mark within the playlist, 2 will take you to 20%, etc. So if you have 100 tracks in the playlist, pressing 5 will take you to track 50. This allows you to quickly navigate through really long playlists in order to find the track you want to hear.

4) You might want to check the firmware versions on your controller and keypads before installing them, and upgrade them if necessary, since I will do this myself soon, and once I do, I'll change the software to use features of the new firmware. It's easier to upgrade the firmware before you install the system.

I'm thinking about adding display of time/date on the keypads today.

One more thing I didn't mention previously: my software currently only supports source 1. That is, as it stands today, you cannot control multiple MC zones. To be honest, I've always seen the biggest advantage of multi-zone to be seperate volume in each room, not different sources in each room. Maybe that'll change when my kids get older! Currently it's only my wife and I who decide which music we want to listen to. I am actually considering supporting two sources so that she can listen to one thing in the bedroom or living room while I'm listening to something else in the office. It shouldn't be technically difficult - just a matter of sitting down and writing the code.

simon - got a bounce sending you that email. Let me know your current email address and I will send you the software.

hyslopc - I would also love to try your software. My CAV6.6 should be here early next week while the installers are prewiring the zone keypads as we speak. Sounds like the RS232 will make life a lot more enjoyable.

Thanks in advance!

bgolitz73@aol.com

I've now greatly enhanced the software. It can now handle up to 6 MC zones, and is designed to take advantage of the latest firmware, using scrolling text, etc. Note that you will need to upgrade your keypads and controller to the latest firmware version if you're not running it already.

Post your email address here if you want a copy.

Could I get a copy?
Thanks
Steve

hy_def@yahoo.com

BTW if anyone is contemplating upgrading their CAV6.6 keypad firmware, here's how I did it. The controller is a piece of cake: just use the same standard RS-232 cable that you use with my software. The keypads, on the other hand, use a proprietary plug for firmware updates. I went through my pile of spare PC cables & plugs and found two things which ended up being perfect for the job:

1) A female DB9 "raw" plug with contacts designed to be soldered onto wires that I bought from a local electronics store a long time ago.

2) A small 4-pin cable (of which only 3 of the pins are connected), which I am guessing either came from a PC fan or a CD-ROM drive (digital audio plug). Not exactly sure what this was but I had tons of them, so if you mess around with PCs a bit you probably have one lying around, too.

As it turns out, the 4-pin cable is exactly the right size to connect to the keypads, but whereas the cable had pins 1, 2, and 4 connected, the keypads need pins 1, 2, and 3 connected. Pulling the cable out from slot 4 and plugging it into slot 3 turned out to be very easy: you just press on the metal contact that lies 1/4" from the tip of the plug, and pull the cable out, then push it into slot 3. On the other end of the cable, I removed all three cables from the plug, and simply jammed them onto my DB9 connector. It wasn't 100% stable, but they held OK as long as I didn't put any pressure on them. I upgraded one keypad first to make sure I didn't mess everything up. After rebooting the CAV6.6, I could see that the firmware upgrade was successful. I then went around with a laptop and upgraded all 6 keypads in less than 5 minutes.

As always, YMMV, and don't blame me if you use the same method I did and it causes problems for you. It worked for me, though.

Opps, that was my old work email.

new one: simon @

many thanks for this!!

The underlining made by the system obscures the e-mail address. It is:

hy_def @ yahoo . com (delete spaces).

Thanks
Steve

Rcv'd file. Thanks
Steve

Would it be possible to get a copy of your file? I'm in the process of planning a new system for our new house, signed the contract a few weeks ago:D

This looks like fun, and I would really like to get something I can build and configure my self. This would be as much a hobby as an entertainment system.

My email is: goran.ronne(a)chello.no

With regards

Gøran Rønne
Oslo, Norway

You have mail. Yes, that's one of the big reasons why I went down the CAV6.6/MC route: both systems are fully programmable using a standard PC. Of course I would have preferred if the CAV6.6 used IP instead of RS-232, but in fact I have found that the RS-232 interface is fast enough and really works well. The CAV6.6 uses 19200 baud, and the packets are small, so really performance isn't an issue at all. Thankfully you can still buy PCs with serial ports! I use a Shuttle Zen, which comes with one RS-232 port built-in.

What really surprised me was that most of my programming problems were on the MC side, not on the CAV6.6 side: I had expected the opposite. The Russound protocol is really very good, and they have been very helpful in providing info and documentation on the protocol.

The great news is that the biggest programming issue on the MC side is fixed in v11, and they might even add event-based notification, which would be even better. Overall I'm very pleased with the whole setup. The only thing on my "wish list" would be a wider display for the Russound keypads, although that isn't such an issue now that Russound have added support for scrolling text in the latest keypad firmware. Support for a blue LED backlight would be nice, too (in addition to the green and orange supported today).

Has jriver announced when MC11 will be available?
Steve

Originally posted by steve
Has jriver announced when MC11 will be available?
Steve
It's in alpha/beta now. You can follow the development here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=3

Great to hear, Jim!

Hey - have any of you got the software up and running with your CAV6.6 system yet?

You should have all now received a new version of the software. This version you received requires the latest controller & keypad firmware but works with MC10. Future versions will require MC11.

Would be nice to hear if anyone has it up and running yet :)

hy_def wanted to know why future versions will require MC11. The reason is because the MC10 API only supports getting info and making changes to the current zone. So if you want to make changes to multiple zones at once, you have to switch the current zone. Since there's no event mechanism in MC10 or MC11, all zones have to be polled fairly rapidly. In MC10, that means the current zone has to be switched several times a second even when nothing's playing, making the MC GUI impossible to use.

MC11 solves this by extending the API to include access to all zones at once (not just the zone that's currently active in the GUI). So I still have to poll, but it doesn't block access to the GUI at all.

I would love a copy please. You are the man!!

biglips31@yahoo.com

I have a cav 6.6 installed in my home any my wife
is upset that we do not have mp3 support.

I cannot afford the new media system that is due out
next month at 1899.00msrp.

Thanks again!!

You have mail! Yeah that new Russound media server looks really cool - based on the spec, I think they did a really great job with it, but IMHO it's still not as cool as this solution because:

1) $$$
2) It's limited to 3 sources
3) It's not available yet
4) It will never be able to match MC10's power & GUI
5) No support for APE files or other less-common formats
6) It's a closed solution

I think for people who are allergic to PCs and just want it to work, the Russound media server is the way to go, but for most of the people in this forum, a software-based solution is better.

Ok, I downloaded firmware upgrades to keypads and cav 6.6. I will upgrade these shortly.

I already have a HTPC but it is in a different location than the music distribution so I will have to build another system just for my MP3 system.

Any advice of hardware? Specifically case that could possibly be rackmounted in the future.

Also how do the multizone system work? I would probably only need two
different sources. Is it also possible to distribute the video also via composite? I'n new to this but I would propbably like to build something very comparable to the russound server.

Thanks,

Anthony

Hardware depends greatly on your needs. I have one cupboard containing my CAV6.6, an 8-channel Rotel amp, an ADSL modem, a router, 2 wireless phone base units and a doorbell chime. The cupboard is quite tall, but only barely wide enough to fit the CAV6.6, and it's located a few feet away from my kitchen table. Since I wanted to put the server PC and a 250GB USB2 hard drive in there with all that stuff, my primary need was "small, cool and quiet".

As such, I went for a Shuttle Zen XPC with a 2.8GHz P4 and a 40GB 4200rpm laptop drive. The Zen has an external power supply, which makes it really, really small, so it fits easily in the cupboard. It was quiet right out of the box, but I underclocked it to 1.4GHz and undervolted it to 0.85V and run SpeedFan to slow the fans down so that they are inaudible even with the cupboard door open.

The 250GB hard drive, which is a Maxtor OneTouch, is pretty quiet, too, but it makes more noise and generates as much heat as the Zen. The Zen has one COM port (needed for the CAV6.6) and a built-in 6-channel sound, so it can generate 3 stereo streams at once. Due to issues with the current MC11 build (which I have reported to J River), I only have one stream enabled right now. If you wanted to have 6 streams, you could plug in a 6-channel PCI or USB2 sound card, but 3 is plenty for me right now.

One thing I didn't know is that the Zen can boot straight from a USB2 hard drive. If I'd known that, I probably would have skipped the internal laptop drive completely.

Sorry, forgot to answer all of your questions! How does the multi-zone work? Well right now it doesn't ;-)! Actually it worked with MC10, but due to reasons already documented in this thread I switched to the MC11 API, which works fine, too. So the problem now is actually very simple: the current MC11 alpha release outputs every "zone" to soundcard channels 1 & 2 regardless of what is set in the DirectSound settings. At least it does on my PC, and I figure it's a problem with MC11 and not with my PC, since it worked fine with MC10. So control of multiple zones with the keypads works fine, but all of the sources play on top of each other in zone 1!

The way it will should once they fix this bug in MC11 is that you create as many sources (zones) as you want in MC, using menu option Player | Playback options | Zone Manager. Map each zone to a different pair of sound card outputs, and connect those sound card outputs to the inputs on your CAV6.6. Then start my software, and it should all just work. Each "zone" in MC becomes a "source" on the keypads, where zone 1 = source 1, zone 2 = source 2, etc. If you already have a source setup as source 1, then I'm afraid you'll have to move it :-(. Let me know if that's a big problem. I have been trying to just use defaults for everything to avoid having to support an ini file or registry settings.

Is it possible to distribute video via composite? I guess it would be, assuming your video card has a TV out, although I haven't tried that. Let me know how you go if you try it, since it sounds interesting.

So the problem now is actually very simple: the current MC11 alpha release outputs every "zone" to soundcard channels 1 & 2 regardless of what is set in the DirectSound settings. At least it does on my PC, and I figure it's a problem with MC11 and not with my PC, since it worked fine with MC10.

MC 11 is correctly routing DirectSound to multiple outputs for each zone on my machine.

Maybe start a thread over here so we can dig some more:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=3

Thanks!

Aha! Well that's excellent news. I'd much rather be dealing with a local problem on my PC than with a software problem outside my control. Which build are you running?

I might try uninstalling everything and trying again with a clean install. It could be remnants of my MC10 install that is haunting me.

Hey you're not *the* monkey (of Monkey's Audio), are you? If so, I'm a *huge* fan!

hyslopc,

Could you please send me a copy of your plugin. This is the plugin I have been waiting for!!!

Thanks,

Sventek97

ericl@srointernet.com

Anyone using it?

I finally got around to performing firmware upgrades on the keypads and unit. worked like a charm!! thanks..

I am finishing the loading of my cd on the server tonight. Hopefully I will get it up and running in the next few days, I also installed the new sound card for the multi zone support. I am plannning on running Zone 1 and Zone 2 for the mp3 player.

I also need to find out how to implement the s video out on the video card.


The computer will sit in my media rack with no monitor or keyboard so I decided to configure for remote desktop. This works like a charm in my home network.

I cant thank you enough!!

Anthony

Yup!! I have had it up and running about a week now. I love it! I have only had a few minor issues. One is the title and artist dont seem to update correctly if I use the next or previous buttons. In the log it looks like it sent it out to the keypad correctly, but it never displays until I stop and restart the song from the keypad or the song ends and the next track starts. These are very minor issues though. Thanks for a wonderful plug in!

-Sventek

Do you have the latest keypad and controller firmware? These are required, as the plug-in uses CAV6.6 features that are only supported by the latest firmware.

Yup sure do.... I orginally thought that I had the latest on the keypads, and then I wasnt getting any scrolling text, so I updated them all. All that works now, just the artist and title updates seem to be an issue.

Originally posted by Biglips31
Ok, I downloaded firmware upgrades to keypads and cav 6.6. I will upgrade these shortly.

I already have a HTPC but it is in a different location than the music distribution so I will have to build another system just for my MP3 system.

Any advice of hardware? Specifically case that could possibly be rackmounted in the future.

Also how do the multizone system work? I would probably only need two
different sources. Is it also possible to distribute the video also via composite? I'n new to this but I would propbably like to build something very comparable to the russound server.

Thanks,

Anthony

As for a case: try this one. (http://www.sundialmicro.com/cgi-bin/sundial/sstlc01birw.html) It is basically one of my Music Mountain (http://www.musicmountain.biz) cases built by Silverstone based on their LC-01 case. They overstocked a bit and are clearing some out with Sundial at $5.00 over my cost (ouch). At any rate they are great cases. They have a built in IR controller spot for a USB-UIRT-MM module (you can get that from Jon Rhees if you want) which has 2 separate zones of IR with 1/8" interconnects on the back ... very cool. You can also buy a rack mount kit from Middle Atlantic for this case by selecting this link (http://repnet.middleatlantic.com/RSH/mainRSH.asp) and then entering Music Mountain in the search field. The result is a beautiful case in a rack mount or shelf top form factor with load of room for disk drives etc. and an IR controller.

As for this SW:

Very nice work please add me to the list of recipients. I would like to give it a spin. You can mail me at jpimentel (a la) musicmountain(dot)biz

As for MC11 supporting simultaneous multi zone control:
That is absolutely outstanding news. I have been waiting a long time for this one. All I can say is YIPPEE!

Thanks to all for all your great work to further the cause of affordable multimedia solutions!

I sent you both the latest version. Sventek - let me know if it fixes your problem. If not, then maybe you can send me a trace of it.

Carl,

The plug-in works perfect. After doing some more research the problem with the tracks not updating correctly had to do with what type I had the source assigned to. It was unassigned, once I changed it to Peripheral it worked like a champ. Everything works perfect!! Great work and sorry for the false alarm.

Sventek

Just so I am clear on this, do I need the beta v11 media center SW for the plugin you sent me?

Thanks

Yes, you need MC11, since I am using the new multi-zone API, which is not supported by MC10.

Originally posted by JohnPimentel
As for MC11 supporting simultaneous multi zone control:
That is absolutely outstanding news. I have been waiting a long time for this one. All I can say is YIPPEE!


...is this to say MC will now do synchronized zone control, i.e volume-up will increase volume in more than one zone; or song select will play the same music in more than one zone? If not, then what?

Thanks

Caleb

The CAV6.6 takes care of volume control and sync, so it's irrelevant in this case.

MC11 has added some new zone-sync capabilities, but it's still nowhere near what's needed so that you could do multi-zone without some sort of hardware device like the CAV6.6.

Originally posted by hyslopc
The CAV6.6 takes care of volume control and sync, so it's irrelevant in this case.

MC11 has added some new zone-sync capabilities, but it's still nowhere near what's needed so that you could do multi-zone without some sort of hardware device like the CAV6.6.

...I (with some help from others, like John P) am creating a multi-zone, multi-theater, whole-house HTPC based system using components like Lexicon MC12 and Theda amps in some zones. I like the idea of some keypads with RS 232 control. I would not want to be limited to the Pre-amp and amp in the CAV6.6. Is there a way to have my cake and eat it too, i.e. use the CAV6.6 for basic control, but not be limited to their audio components?

What is the coat of the CAV6.6

Thanks

Caleb

The CAV6.6 includes line-outs both for each source (ie the unaltered original signal) and for each zone (ie the signal after it has been routed and pre-amp'd). You don't want to skip the routing/pre-amp do you? If so why bother connecting the cables to the CAV6.6 at all? There is also a 12V trigger that allows you to switch between multi-zone mode and home-theater mode but I haven't bothered to check it out yet so I can't explain more about what it does.

Most of my zones are powered by a high-quality external 8-channel amp. I only use the CAV6.6's built-in amp (which is pretty weak) for smaller rooms like the guest bathroom.

If you want to know more about the CAV6.6, I'd recommend you download the manual: http://www.ncms.no/manuals/Russound/CAV_6.6_manual.pdf

Originally posted by hyslopc
The CAV6.6 includes line-outs both for each source (ie the unaltered original signal) and for each zone (ie the signal after it has been routed and pre-amp'd). You don't want to skip the routing/pre-amp do you? If so why bother connecting the cables to the CAV6.6 at all? There is also a 12V trigger that allows you to switch between multi-zone mode and home-theater mode but I haven't bothered to check it out yet so I can't explain more about what it does.

Most of my zones are powered by a high-quality external 8-channel amp. I only use the CAV6.6's built-in amp (which is pretty weak) for smaller rooms like the guest bathroom.

If you want to know more about the CAV6.6, I'd recommend you download the manual: http://www.ncms.no/manuals/Russound/CAV_6.6_manual.pdf

I'd have to agree with you on that the Russound amp section is less than stellar and so I would use external PAs if you wanted higher quality sound. That said use of the pre-amp section is mandatory if you want to have any sort of useful volume control for the room.

As far as separate zone control in MC is concerned I think we should be careful not to confuse zone synchronization with zone control. They are two separate features. Zone control is the ability to browse the music library and add songs to playlists more than one at a time, as opposed to the "active" zone approach that allowed modification of only the zone that was in the active focus on the MC console application. This active zone mode of control was true for all versions up to and including MC10.

L8R

Craig,

I sent you an email, however I though I would post another
suggestion/idea.

I have two zones set up now. Any idea if it would be possible to install
a am/fm tuner in pc and add another zone? This would also eliminate the need to purchase the ST2 tuner from russound also. Let me know what you think of the idea.

Tony

I was going to do this, too, but then realized that's it's all on the web! All my favorite radio stations have web feeds, so I just set them up in MC. I've been meaning to make them into a playlist and set them up as Source #2 on the CAV6.6, but haven't gotten around to it yet. Should work fine, though.

Hi,

Can I be added to the distribution list for this plugin please ?

Out of interest - I have 2 Cav6.6. Does the plugin work with multiple controllers?

Also I am interested in what people have been saying about the quality of amplification ..... should I be thinking about a power amp ?


Chris

Sure - just let me know your email address (PM me). Unfortunately the software only supports one CAV6.6 controller for now, since that's what I've got. I'm not sure how much work it would be to add support for a second controller - I will have to check it out.

I have to admit that after thinking about it, I can't say for sure how good or bad the CAV6.6's internal amplification is. I have a seperate power amp and two types of speakers: Russound's top-of-the-line in-ceiling speakers, and much cheaper Jamo on-wall speakers. Based on the room config, the best way to set it up was such that the external amp powers the Russounds and the internal amp powers the Jamos.

The Russounds sound much better than the Jamos do. Is it the speakers, the amplification, or both? I haven't done any A/B testing so I can't say for sure. Maybe someone who has could post their findings - I would be very interested.

Hi,

PM sent. I think its really easy to adapt to multiple controllers. Its just a 2,3,4,5 or 6 rather than a 1 in the rs232 messages.


Chris

Could I get your software ... my e-mail address is Curious773@aol.com. I've just received my first CAV6.6, however, I expect to put two into the house I'm currently building. I'd also be very interested in a plug-in supporting multiple units.

:p

Hi Carl,

Well, after all this time, I got the Cav6.6!

However, in the time that has passed, I have moved onto a new front end, Xlobby.
It makes use of Winamp (or foobar) to output the audio.

So, the big question, is it possible to port your software over to use Winamp?
If not, could you point me in the direction of where to look to learn how to do the RS-232 for myself?

Thanks,

Simon.

Just found the protocol doument, now I am scared :eek:

You're not the first person to contact me regarding "can you hook up your software to XYZ". The answer is "yes!", but right now I don't have time :-(. It's a pity that I didn't think about it from the start, because I could have separated the logic out into different DLLs from the start, so that it was all re-usable. That's of course still not impossible, but it will take a bit of time and right now I am swamped with "real" work.

I am a bit of an expert in RS-232 and still it took me quite a while to get it all working. The protocol document is full of errors and omissions. I will really try and get my code sorted out so that it can be used as an API. What language were you planning on using? My software is C++.

I have mailed you.

I have just sent out a new version of the software to everyone on my list. This new version doesn't add any new features, but I think it fixes all of the bugs in the existing version. Soon I will start working on some of the feature requests I've received.

If you didn't receive a new copy of the software today, please send me a PM or email me.

I finally received my Russound SMS3 music server a few days ago - after waiting for 6 months! I've got to say that I am a little dissapointed in it. There are definitely some changes that need to be made in the software. My biggest complaint is that you can only access the #1 stream of music from a TV in the house. From the web server you can access all three streams. From my past experimentation with MC 9 & 10 it looks like for the money it might be the way to go.

That being said I'd like to also jump on board and get a copy of this software. Also, any luck on supporting two CAV 6.6s yet?

BTW, if anyone is considering purchasing the SMS3 and has questions let me know - I believe I got one of the first few units shipped.

Correction: The composite or S-video output of the Russound SMS3 changes to reflect the music stream which had the most recent user input. So, if you make a keypad or IR remote change to a zone that was playing Stream #3 (yes, this is what Russound calls the outputs) then the S-video and composite output will change to the Stream #3 screen.

Still getting the hang of this thing and it is taking forever to load my 300+ CDs.

Sorry for the misinformation in my previous post.

Hi hyslopc

Your app looks very interesting, any chance you can add me to your distribution list...

I was considering the new media server, but your solution looks like alot more fun...

paul.lawrence99 @ btinternet.com

Thanks
Paul

Could you add me to your distribution list as well (public@kw1816.co.uk) - I'm still working out the best way to integrate a Cav 6.6 with Homeseer and Main lobby/MLServer :eek: :eek:

This is a great plug-in. I would love to find a way to use the keypads natively instead of the CAV6.6 controller, and just use the keypads to send signals to MC11, and have it control routing and have the speaker outs go through my own amplifers. This isn't just about better amps - in a couple of rooms it would be nice to use ABUS hookups. I love the keypads though.

Thanks,
Mike

Just because you're using the CAV6.6's keypad controller logic doesn't mean you have to use its audio circuitry. The audio comes from the PC, and you can route it anywhere you like - it doesn't even have to be connected to the CAV6.6.

I am getting ready to release a new version, and I thought it would be nice to change the icon to something a bit more meaningful. If any of you who are using my software have artistic ability and know how to make a Windows icon, I would really appreciate your help. If you have artistic ability but don't know how to make a Windows icon, you're more than welcome to send me a 96-by-96 pixel BMP, PNG or GIF which I can then convert to be an icon.

could you please add me to the distribution list, too. jayd @ execpc.com

Thanks.

I just sent out a new release to everyone. If you are using this software and haven't received the email within 24 hours, please post here or PM me.

I really think it would be a great enhancement to add the ability to select the serial port, other than being limited to COM1. Possibly this could be done by adding a setting in the registry.

I just sent you a new version that lets you specify the port on the command-line. Let me know if you don't receive it.

I will purchase a Russound CAV 6.6 in the near future and will greatly appreciate a copy of your software. Please send me a copy.

Thank you, Gene

PM me with your email address and I'll send you a copy.

Pardon my ignorance but could this app be used with MCE 2005?

I would really appreciate a copy as well. I just sent a PM.

Do you know if the plugin is compatible with the Russound CAM models? They are basically the same as the CAV (supports RNET with 6 sources and 6 zones, same keypads), but includes an internal tuner.

Also, I am using NetRemote to control JRMC and have been wanting to use it to also control the Russound. The goal was to remove a dependency on using the keypads. Since NR can potentially control any IR device using NR/Girder, any potential audio source could be controlled as well.

Have you looked into this at all? I have considered using Girder to control the Russound, but have been looking into using Girder. So far I haven't found anyone who has done this. I think the idea of being able to manage the entire system (including viewing the entire audio library, cover art and lyrics, build playlists, control zones, etc....) from any where in the house with a low cost wireless PDA would be approaching a good solution.

jb

What do you want to do with NetRemote? Remember that Media Center is doing a lot of the work, and NetRemote can talk to Media Center. The only thing the Russound does is switching, volume control, and the keypad display.

Since the keypads include an IR sensor, you can do pretty much anything you want with a simple IR remote. That's what I do, and it's very convenient, since the remote works in every room of the house, and "knows" which room it's in (by virtue of the keypad location). If you used NetRemote, you would either need six clearly marked remotes, or you would have to tell the remote "I'm in the kitchen now".

Pardon my ignorance but could this app be used with MCE 2005? It only works with J River's Media Center, not with Microsoft's Media Player or any other players. As such, it doesn't work with Microsoft's Windows XP Media Center Edition.

Microsoft plans on releasing MCE in Sweden later this year, and when they do I will check it out. If I buy one, I might hook it up to the CAV6.6.

Do you know if the plugin is compatible with the Russound CAM models? It uses the same basic protocol as the CAV6.6 (RNet), so I would guess it does, but please post to let us know if it works or not.

If it doesn't, I can probably fix it - Russound have posted a CAM protocol document on their website. Unfortunately there's no "what's different from the CAV" document.

The new CAM document is much better wrtten than the CAV document was, and it documents a bit more of the RNet protocol. One thing that's still missing is what event 0xC5 is - neither document explains it, but the controller sends this event out now and then. If anyone knows what this event is, or has a contact within Russound that could explain it, I'd really like to know, since it's the only mystery left in the protocol.

Originally posted by hyslopc
What do you want to do with NetRemote? Remember that Media Center is doing a lot of the work, and NetRemote can talk to Media Center. The only thing the Russound does is switching, volume control, and the keypad display.

Since the keypads include an IR sensor, you can do pretty much anything you want with a simple IR remote. That's what I do, and it's very convenient, since the remote works in every room of the house, and "knows" which room it's in (by virtue of the keypad location). If you used NetRemote, you would either need six clearly marked remotes, or you would have to tell the remote "I'm in the kitchen now".
My goal is to eliminate the need for the keypads completely. I want to control switching, volume, and device control all from the PDA. I am retrofitting a 6-zone audio setup and don't currently have the wiring structure to support the keypads. I would have to run new CAT5 which would be very difficult. That is my main purpose for using the PDA which I am already using to control MC. Also the system can be purchased for about half the price without keypads. I am going to purchase the Russound this week.

As you mentioned, one solution may be to control the Russound using your plugin in MC via NetRemote. If not, then I may have to use Girder. In either case I would have a Zone control page within NetRemote that would basically show rows that correspond with each zone (6 rows). Each row would have an Icon/button that corresponds with a different device (up to 6). Think if it like a grid. The first column would be the zone identifier and the other 6 columns would be device identifiers. Each button would be tagged with a specific device and a specific zone. I simply would sent that information to the JRMC computer which will then tell the russound to switch that device to that zone. Using that page, I could select any source and direct it to any zone. I could even have a column for all zones and with one button sent audio from a specific device to all zones. Thanks for emailing the software. I will start looking at it today and see if it would be a possible fit.

I may have to use Girder. That may be more of a challenge that you realize. Make sure you download the protocol document from Russound's website and understand what you're getting yourself into before you go down that path. The protocol is not trivial, and unlike anything I had seen before, and I work with RS-232 (among other things) for a living. I'm not saying it can't be done, but just make sure you check it out thoroughly before making any big purchases.

Hi Carl,

I have your software working in test right now.. good job..

One fundamental restriction applies - I really dont like J River and would like a little help in investgating the Girder option as suggested above.

I realise that you have applied lots of your personal time to this project and I dont want to impose.. but Russound wont reply to my messages...

I have girder intercepting all of the keypad buttons - play/pause etc for each of the zones, but I cannot get the russound unit to reply to any of the sample messages within the CAV or CAM protocol documents.

The RNET protocol document provides guidance on the message, including checksum which I understand and would like to play with... My goal is only to send a message to the keypad if the zone is correct..i.e. track names/artist etc... but I cant get the russound unit to reply to any of my commands.

Any suggestions or could you send or paste a sample hex string that I could analyse please..? e.g. message "hi there" as per the manual..

Thanks for your hard work on this topic..

Regards
Paul.

I've sent you a PM with some advice - good luck!

Thanks Carl, can I just make sure that I have the latest version please..

paul.lawrence99 @ btinternet.com

I have read your thread with great interest and would love a copy of your software. I have a CAV6.6 that I installed about 18months ago. I am mainly a Mac guy and have ripped my CD collection with iTunes (which I audio output to the CAV-but have to control from the Mac). It shares my home network with a Dell laptop running XP.

I bought a USB-Serial converter cable to link the laptop to the CAV. What is your suggestion for software to link the PC to the CAV? I assume that I need MC11 at the minimum. Can MC11 easily access and share my iTunes library on the Mac? Is there a way to create additional audio outputs with a PC laptop?

Thanks again for your software and all the hard work that you have put into this.

PM me your email address and I will send you the software. You definitely must install MC11 before you install my software - you can download the latest beta from ftp://ftp.jriver.com/pub/downloads/music/MediaCenter110199.exe. I don't know if it supports iTunes, but on the features page it says it supports the iPod.

I just ran a search on various terms like CAV6.6 "media center", CAV6.6 mp3, etc. and didn't find this thread listed anywhere. How did you guys find it? It could be good to give it a bit higher visibility. I'm not looking to make money out of this software at all, but since I've written it, if there are people out there who are looking for it, it'd be nice if they could find it.

Honestly I can't remember, I think I saw it while browsing through recent posts at the time and it caught my attention, or perhaps a referral from the J. River forum.

Although this thread is greatly appreciated and respected, I also had a hard time finding it. I was looking for ways to control my CAV6.6 on other A/V on software threads, a couple of posts referenced this thread. But I had to spend quite a bit of time reading to find it.

Yeah. I've applied to have it listed on J River's accessories page now. Hopefully that will be easier to find for more people.

I would love a copy of your software

zivfr@012.net.il

10x

Ziv

Perhaps this should be on a new thread, but does anyone have any suggestions for a USB2 sound card for my dell laptop to allow me 2-3 audio zone output (simple stereo for home distribution). I have MC11 installed and a CAV6.6 linked to it. I have tried using the headphone port as a separate zone from my USB iMic audio device, but can't seem to separate the zones.

Does the new sound device show as an option under the zone manager settings? If so, did you select it for a dedicated zone output?

I used zone manager to set up two separate zones, one listing the "SigmaTel Audio" as a source and the other using the "USB iMic" as a source (both showed in zone manager). I tried various combinations of Wave vs Direct Sound, etc. I noticed with the Windows XP sound control panel- whenever the audio device selected there was SigmaTel, only the headphones worked, when the audio device selected was USB iMic, only the iMic worked. In both cases, both MC zones played through the respective port at the same time. (note that the Griffin iMic is not a USB sound card, just a port). Perhaps a USB sound card has the drivers to allow multi-zone?

Oh I see now. Yes, you probably will need a completely separate Audio Device for multiple outputs to work properly. Just add the new sound device drivers etc. and configure the respective output zones in zone manager.

I hope this helps

Thanks! Any recommendations for a USB Sound card that works well with MC and has audio outputs that can be split into 2 to 3 distinct stereo zones?

Dear Carl,

Not a good weekend!

I had a local Russound installer update all the keypads and CAV6.6 to the latest firmware. Unfortunately, I noticed that I lost zone 3 keypad control after this (no keypad works when plugged into this zone). I then updated the firmware on the CAV6.6 myself, but still no zone 3. So will have to get him back.

Also, I purchased an Audiotrak Maya EX5 USB sound card (which is 5.1) in the hopes that I could use it for 3 separate audio source zones using Media Center's multi-zone features. Unfortunately, I cannot separate out the zones no matter what the settings say in MC's Zone manager. I set zone 1 as the front, zone 2 as the rear, and zone 3 as the center/lfe, but they still always play mixed together. Think this is a problem with MC, as I can test tone individual speakers with the card's control panel.

I am also having a problem using the plug-in that you sent. I am using a laptop with a USB-Serial converter that is set at Com Port 1. My laptop is running XP Home and MC 11 ( one of the last builds). When the plug-in is running, every time that I try to play a song, it stops. The CAV6.6/Media Link window shows all the zones correctly. The audio sources are all listed as "stopped". There is no response from the keypads (except for source and volume). Not sure what to do.

Appreciate your thoughts and effort!

Best regards,

Joe

The plug-in is designed to automatically stop each MC zone if no keypads are turned on within that zone. That is, if the music isn't playing anywhere in the house, it will be automatically turned off. This is so that you can just turn a keypad off in the room you are in without having to worry about whether the source is shared or not.

If the plug-in didn't do this, then the music would keep on playing if you didn't press stop before turning off the last keypad. In addition to generating unnecesary PC heat, noise, and hard disk wear, this would mess up MC's statistics (since it would show songs as "played" that have not actually been heard).

I tend to think that once you have your system working properly with the CAV6.6 then this won't be an issue. Note that I have exactly the same issue as you - I can't listen to multi-zone with MC11 on my PC, because all MC zones go to outputs 1 & 2. I swapped out my built-in soundcard for a Soundblaster Audigy hoping that this problem would go away, but it didn't make any difference. I have been meaning to post about this on the MC11 forum to try and get a solution, but haven't gotten around to it. I live in an apartment, and we've never felt the need to have two different songs playing in two different zones, so it hasn't been a big issue, but it would be fun to get it working.

I have had great success with M-Audio's sound cards and multi zone. I use the Delta series cards. The 1010LT gives 4 analog and 1 digital out and works great with MC 10 (not sure about 11). Unfortunately I did not see a USB version of that device on their web site.

After working with your plug-in a bit more, I realized that I had mistakenly set up the MediaCenter zones for audio inputs #4,5, and 6 on the CAV6.6. The plug-in sets the audio sources in order (ie. #1,2.3 etc.) Once I adjusted the cables and used the audio imputs #1,2,etc, everything worked smoothly. Nice job! Is there a way to jump through playlists or genres, etc using the keypad?

No you can't switch playlists right now, although I will definitely add this. You can move quickly within a playlist by using the number keys on the remote control (1 = 10% from start of playlist, 2 = 20%, etc).

Thanks! It is great to see the song register on the keypads and jump up and down the playlist without going back to the source.

I've heard of some success with multi-zoning sound cards that are supported by the KX drivers, but my card (and apparently yours) do not. Wish that jriver would respond to this problem. There are quite a few similar posts on there forums.

JRiver's support is unfortunately a bit sporadic. Once they decide to look at a problem, it is usually fixed very quickly, but convincing them that there is a real bug that they need to look at can be an uphill battle, at least in my experience.

Definitely some (if not most) soundcards work. My old Delta card worked fine with MC10's multi-zone. I would still be using that card, but unfortunately it stopped working.

If anyone has a suggestion as to how I should enable playlist switching, I would love to hear it. Unfortunately it seems like the F1 and F2 buttons are hard-coded to their functions, and can't be overridden. The only thing I have come up with so far would be to add a menu, accessible via holding down a key (eg pause). It would be similar to the built-in menu you get by holding down Source. I could then add options to the menu, including "choose playlist".

I like your suggestion on the menu access. Seems easy enough to adjust to...

On another note, I've seen an issue on my source 1, where pushing the next button will go to the next song, but the text doesn't update until you press pause or the song ends and the next song plays (at that point, the correct text shows up). I noticed that this doesn't happen on SRC 2. My setup has 3 sources tied into 3 J River zones.

I think that the defining menu access by a particular button would work fine. Perhaps also to scroll through internet radios stations.

On multi-zone, does anyone know of a USB sound card that works with MC to split 5.1 output into separate zones? M-Audio has USB and Firewire cards, but they are expensive, and I am not sure if they will work the same as the PCI cards (which apparent work well). I have left some notes on the JRiver Forum on this (and I am apparently not alone with this frustration). Haven't received any response from them to date.

Internet radio stations should work fine as long as you can insert them into a playlist. Has anyone succeeded in doing this with MC11?

Joedds - where's your post on the J River forum? I can't find it.

OK now I found it, but that thread's closed now. I've made a post replying to the latest build, so if you (and anyone else experiencing this problem) wants to add a "me too" to let J River know that this is a widespread problem, definitely go ahead.

Sorry, I am at work and can't check email as oftern. I'm glad that you found my post(s). I will also add to your newest post in the new build forum.

Just our luck, they are delivering a new build today and closed out the "last build" forum that you posted in an hour ago. Multi-zone support is not listed as a fix in the newest build.

I would like to be added to the distribution as well, and would love to get a copy of the source code. It is still months away from my home being finished, but am looking at CAV6.6 or CAM6.6 for my audio distribution needs. If I do go that route the work you have done may help greatly as I write a CAV/CAM plugin for Windows Media Center.

My email address is timothy.brown@earthlink.net_remove

You can add me to the list. I do Russound installations (I am an authorized Russound dealer) and am sure that some customers would like this as an alternative to the SMS3 or even as an addition if they wanted 4 streams and didn't want to purchase a second SMS3.

mike@cinemawizards.com

I have now posted a link to the plug-in on J River's accessory page (http://accessories.jrmediacenter.com/mediacenter/accessories.php), so anyone who wants it can download it from there without having to give out their email address. If you are using the software and have a spare minute, please go there to rate it, so that others get to hear about your experience.

I can not find the plug-in for this on JRiver's site. :confused:

I have looked though all of the files (I think).

What is the file name and which topic folder is it in (ie Display plug-ins, Interface plug-ins, etc).

Thanks for the help!

You have to indicate that you are using MC11. The plug in can then be fouynd in the "other" category.

Steve

Ahhhh... Thanks!

I thought that I had looked there, but it would seem that I had not!

Downloading now!

FANTASTIC work!

I haven't gotten it all figured out, but I do have it running!

I now need to buy a multichannel sound card, so I can add additional sources!

If I understand the way the software works, it defaults to Source 1, and then adds 2, 3, etc as you add outputs from your PC sound card. Is that correct? Or is there a way to tell the software which Source number it is supposed to use?

Also is this right:

+ Moves up to the next artist
- Moves down to previous artist

>l Moves to the next track
l< Moves to the previous track

I am so excited to be saving about $1500, by not having to purchase the SM3!

Thanks

Your understanding is basically correct, although the software decides which sources are available based on how many "zones" are defined in MC11, not based on the physical connections (but normally it's the same thing). Currently there is no way to map zone 1 on the MC11 to anything but source 1, although I guess I could add that easily enough if people wanted it.

No need for me. I just did some quick rerouting of a few inputs, changed the source order in my keypads, and had it all running smoothly.

One more thing: the 0 .. 9 buttons on the remote allow you to quickly navigate through long playlists. 0 = start of playlist, 1 = 10% from start, 2 = 20% from start of playlist, etc.

I am really eating this up! I can't wait for the next "upgrade" with the ability to select a playlist.

I really like the idea of using a hold key to drop into a submenu and select a playlist! The Pause or Stop buttons seem like great candidates for this. It's too bad the F1 and F2 ca't be used for FAVORITE playlist 1 and FAVORITE playlist 2 -- that just seems natural.

Is anyone familiar with the actual Russound PC Power Tool CAV/CAM programming kit?

What does this software allow?

I've never used it. I was very interested in this software before I got my CAV6.6, but I really haven't missed it at all. Then again, I'm not using the CAV6.6's IR capability at all - I'm only using it to control MC11.

Originally posted by hyslopc
I just ran a search on various terms like CAV6.6 "media center", CAV6.6 mp3, etc. and didn't find this thread listed anywhere. How did you guys find it? It could be good to give it a bit higher visibility. I'm not looking to make money out of this software at all, but since I've written it, if there are people out there who are looking for it, it'd be nice if they could find it.
I was lucky to have chanced upon a link to this thread from a thread in the Home Integration forum ... lots of Russound threads/users there, so I'd suggest x-posting there to get more folks interested!

>>> CAV6.6 & Home Theater (8 zones possible?) <<< (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=5538538)

Since this thread is mis-titled and is a bit hard to follow for new users, I have started a new thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=534233). Please post all comments/suggestions/questions to the new thread rather than this thread.

Hi

Trying to get this interface going.. I am so close.....but its not quite going.

I have upgraded my keypads and controller, ran the serial cable, and installed Media Center 11. My problem is when I try and run cav66.exe - I get the error message "This application has failed to start because the application configuration is incorrect. Reinstalling the application may fix the problem."
Unzipping and running again gets the same result. I am running from com2, so I am running the command line as "c:\russound\cav66.exe /port=com2".

Just to confirm - the serial cable that is used between the CAV66 and the pc is a straight through cable using pins 2, 3 and 5?

Any ideas where I may be tripping up here? I am eager to see this in action!

Cheers

Al

I've never seen that before, and it's not an error message explicitly generated by cav66.exe, so it must be something we're using. Basically the only thing we are using is the MC11 COM control, so it's probably something to do with that.

Which version of MC11 do you have installed? I seem to recall seeing a version not so long ago which included the change "Fixed registration of COM object". That implies that there were versions that didn't register the COM object, and that would definitely cause problems for cav66.exe. Try installing MC v11.0.251, and see if that helps.

PS: Please post all further questions/comments to the new thread.

I would Like A copy of the program

I would like a copy of the software

You can download it from here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7397900&&#post7397900

I just purchased a CAM 6.6T and would really appreciate an install of your software.

Thanks.

I just purchased 4 CAV6-6 I'm using it to control 6 source to 24 zone and would really appreciate any advice how can i control all zone via RS232 I will appreciate
any advice and if you can provide me with software and how to .
i also interested installing your software.

Thanks.in advance ,
Samy

Please check the new thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=534233&page=13

Just in case anyone here is interested in the same thing, I thought I'd post to say that I bought a Russound CAV6.6 6-room 6-zone audio/video system and installed 6 keypads in the walls around my apartment. I then wrote a Windows application to link the CAV6.6 up to J River's Media Center 10. So now I can control MC10 from the in-wall keypads, and the keypads display artist and track names. I use the next/prev buttons on the keypad to go to the next/prev track in the playlist, and use the +/- keypad buttons to go to the next/prev artist in the playlist.

So far it works really well, although I've only had it running for a couple of days now, and I'm sure I'll come up with tons of new ideas over the next few weeks. The CAV6.6 is totally awesome - you can control absolutely everything via its RS-232 port, and you get notified about everything, too. The only real weakness in the system is that the keypads can only show 12 characters at a time. Hopefully they'll come out with newer keypads sometime in the future that can display significantly more text, but for now I'm very happy with the whole setup.

If anyone here is interested in doing the same thing, just post here to let me know and I'd be more than happy to send you a copy of the program and even make modifications to it based on your suggestions.

I need the russound CAV66 app. I know it was 3 years ago, but are you still supplying this to people?

Thank you.

Yes. Please check the new thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=534233&page=17&pp=30

Can I get a copy off this software. It sounds great.

Thanks Mark

hi hyslopc i just got a russound cav6.6 system and i'm having trouble programing it do you think i could get a copy of the software


thanks

arabito