I plugged it into my TV's 1394 port and again nothing happened.
The port is obviously not activated.

My eyes can't satisfy my desire for cold hard facts.
They are too subjective.

When 12 out of 12 people all viewing both sources, knowing what neither are, all agree that the OTA is much better than BHN, then its not even close.

Again, they don't even know anything about the background.

You don't buy a HDTV based on specs (I assume). You buy it on the picture it produces.

I know Showtime at 10Mbps can look better than HDNET at 17Mbps. So what? I learned to trust my eyes. Perhaps you should learn to do the same.

I live about 3 miles west of the Tampa Airport and am a little concerned about making the jump to HDTV via an OTA antenna. I am not sure if the airport would interfere with the signal. Anyone in this thread have any experience in the Town & Country area and if so what type/model antenna are you using? Did you need two antennas due to the CBS channel being in the opposite direction or due to VHF/UHF channels?

Thanks,
Jeff

I swaped out my Pace 551 for a SA 3250HD with functional firewire.
I saw last night as the perfect oportunity to do some captures during the State of the Union address.
I was able to capture the exact same segment of CBS from both OTA and BHN.
Every sample I took from all three channels showed the same results.
While the experiment was less than scientific it does seem conclusive.
BHN's bit rate is lower than OTA. Here are the stream details as reported by MPEG Steamclip 1.5.1 for OSX.

Stream: State of the Union-2006.CBS.BHN.mpg
Type: MPEG program stream
Duration: 0:00:55
Data Size: 116.02 MB
Bit Rate: 17.46 Mbps
Video Tracks:
224 MPEG-2, 1920 × 1080, 16:9, 29.97 fps, 38.81 Mbps, upper field first
Audio Tracks:
128 AC3 2/0, 48 kHz, 384 kbps
Stream Files:
State of the Union-2006.CBS.BHN.mpg (116.02 MB)


Stream: State of the Union-2006-CBS.OTA.mpeg
Type: MPEG program stream
Duration: 0:00:54
Data Size: 119.75 MB
Bit Rate: 18.42 Mbps
Video Tracks:
224 MPEG-2, 1920 × 1080, 16:9, 29.97 fps, 18.59 Mbps, upper field first
Audio Tracks:
128 AC3 2/0, 48 kHz, 384 kbps
Stream Files:
State of the Union-2006-CBS.OTA.mpeg (119.75 MB)

Stream: State of the Union-2006.NBC.BHN.mpg
Type: MPEG program stream
Duration: 0:00:35
Data Size: 73.50 MB
Bit Rate: 17.46 Mbps
Video Tracks:
224 MPEG-2, 1920 × 1080, 16:9, 29.97 fps, 38.81 Mbps, upper field first
Audio Tracks:
128 AC3 3/2, 48 kHz, 384 kbps
Stream Files:
State of the Union-2006.NBC.BHN.mpg (73.50 MB)

Stream: State of the Union-2006.NBC.OTA.mpg
Type: MPEG program stream
Duration: 0:05:05
Data Size: 642.16 MB
Bit Rate: 17.65 Mbps
Video Tracks:
224 MPEG-2, 1920 × 1080, 16:9, 29.97 fps, 17.80 Mbps, upper field first
Audio Tracks:
128 AC3 3/2, 48 kHz, 384 kbps
Stream Files:
State of the Union-2006.NBC.OTA.mpg (642.16 MB)

Stream: State of the Union-2006.ABC.BHN.mpg
Type: MPEG program stream
Duration: 0:00:31
Data Size: 54.67 MB
Bit Rate: 14.41 Mbps
Video Tracks:
224 MPEG-2, 1280 × 720, 16:9, 59.94 fps, 38.81 Mbps, progressive
Audio Tracks:
128 AC3 2/0, 48 kHz, 384 kbps
Stream Files:
State of the Union-2006.ABC.BHN.mpg (54.67 MB)

Stream: State of the Union-2006.ABC.OTA.mpg
Type: MPEG program stream
Duration: 0:02:48
Data Size: 294.81 MB
Bit Rate: 14.68 Mbps
Video Tracks:
224 MPEG-2, 1280 × 720, 16:9, 59.94 fps, 14.00 Mbps, progressive
Audio Tracks:
128 AC3 2/0, 48 kHz, 384 kbps
Stream Files:
State of the Union-2006.ABC.OTA.mpg (294.81 MB)


As you can see all 3 captures from OTA have a higher bitrate than BHN. Only the CBS capture is from the same exact time. The OTA capture is 1 second shorter but still a larger file size than BHN.
CBS has the highest bitrate by far.

PM me if anyone would like to examine these files.

Again, you are getting caught up in the bitrate.

Look at the 2 - Switch between them.

It's very obvious which is the inferior signal.

Hello All,

I have a fusion 5 USB HD card and I connect Bright house cable to it and I get all the local HD QAM feeds without any issues (ABC / NBC / FOX / PBS ) etc.

I used to get TNT HD initially when I first set up my card. But its gone now and even after several channel re-scans, I cannot find it.

Does anyone knows if TNT HD has been encrypted by BHN ?

I am in Riverview and I get the BHN as a standard package in my subdivision
( abt. 90 channels) .

Thanks.

HDTVFanAtic,
You just don't get it do you?
It isn't the "IF" I am after. It is the why.
The "IF" is subjective. The bitrate is not.

HDTVFanAtic,
You just don't get it do you?
It isn't the "IF" I am after. It is the why.
The "IF" is subjective. The bitrate is not.

When a room full of people who have no idea what you are looking for and they all say one is superior to the other, its not subjective.

As to the why, its simple if you examine real time OTA and BHN. There you see a 5 second or so lag on BHN as they re-encode it and clearly this process is putting out an inferior signal to the original.

The time lag shows that they are putting it through a rather extensive path as you would not have this type of delay otherwise.

Hello All,

I have a fusion 5 USB HD card and I connect Bright house cable to it and I get all the local HD QAM feeds without any issues (ABC / NBC / FOX / PBS ) etc.

I used to get TNT HD initially when I first set up my card. But its gone now and even after several channel re-scans, I cannot find it.

Does anyone knows if TNT HD has been encrypted by BHN ?

I am in Riverview and I get the BHN as a standard package in my subdivision
( abt. 90 channels) .

Thanks.

Unless you set up your card when they were having a free preview of the HD Tiers - as they have done several times - it has been encrypted since early Fall 04.

As the Fusion 5 has not been out that long, I can only assume that was the case.

Hey HDTVFanAtic ,

That would explain it. I think you are right. That explains the bunch of NBA channels which showed up last Saturday night when I re scanned the digital channels.

Oh well.
I guess I will have to watch what I get ( just the locals) for now.

Thanks.

When a room full of people who have no idea what you are looking for and they all say one is superior to the other, its not subjective.


Where is this panel documented?
Who were the twelve people? What did they watch? How were they selected: Randomly?
What are their backgrounds?

If you don't know then it is subjective otherwise it could be a survey.

Perhaps you should listen to MJ as he has also talked about how inferior it looks on WFLA and WFLZ.

The fact that you are the only one that has argued here that it doesn't look worse than OTA - and your precious local group of "experts" never bothered to do a comparison for the past year - speaks volumes.

I've given up on quality out of Channel 8 for ages and based on the above of people actually WATCHING and using judgement, I understand their philosphy.

However, I have noticed they have dropped 8.2.

Does anyone know for a fact is this:

1) Most likely due to the Olympics and they do not want the heavy macroblocking they typically show on their inferior HD Signal.

2) Just an equipment failure this week?

3) They intend to show a second Olympic channel on it

4) They actually care about quality and realize they need to give the main signal more bandwidth from now on.

5) Something else.

Has anybody in the Tampa area gotten the DirecTV, H20/AT9 installed for free? I just got off the phone with them and was ony able to get them down to $66.00.

I was also wondering if those who've made the switch still get the FOX national HD feed in mpeg2, and how it compares visually to the new mpeg4 FOX local.

They have been out twice and have sitll not been able to install it. So they are doing it for free now. They are supposed to be out on the 25th but I am not holding my breath.

If cable and dish didn't suck so bad I would ditch them. I am supposed to be able to get FIOS in the next 5 years so until them I guess it will have to do.

They have been out twice and have sitll not been able to install it. So they are doing it for free now. They are supposed to be out on the 25th but I am not holding my breath.

If cable and dish didn't suck so bad I would ditch them. I am supposed to be able to get FIOS in the next 5 years so until them I guess it will have to do.

What in the heck don't they have that they cannot do an install.

I've had the stuff here since November...well, actually the second AT9 came in early December after the first one was stolen.

I got the H20 with a pioneer 4360, the SD channels look so bad, i set it to stretch, is this right setting for the reciever? And the locals sometimes audio don't match video (american idol). Anyone having this problem?

They have been out twice and have sitll not been able to install it. So they are doing it for free now. They are supposed to be out on the 25th but I am not holding my breath.

Is your installation problem / delay with the H20 MPEG4 DirecTV unit?

I'm waiting to get my display before ordering the HD DirecTV equipment --- but maybe I should order it now so maybe I get by spring?

What is their reason for such a long delay?

After my post here the other day, I sent an e-mail to DirecTV asking about the different amounts people are paying for the upgrade. I received a reply within 18 hours, saying I woud get a call to address my concerns.

I got that call today and was offered the upgrade for half off, plus a $5.00 credit on my bill for the next six months. So, I'll be paying $20.00. Not enough to complain any further about.

I'm scheduled for Feb 24 in the afternoon. We'll see what happens.

Has anybody had them actually take their current HD box like they say they will? My Zenith originally cost waaaay too much to let anybody just take it.

Has anybody had them actually take their current HD box like they say they will? My Zenith originally cost waaaay too much to let anybody just take it.

I paid $6k for 72meg Hard Drive in 1985. It was sooooo much that I will gladly let someone take it away in exchange for a 250Gig Hard Drive today.

I've given up on quality out of Channel 8 for ages and based on the above of people actually WATCHING and using judgement, I understand their philosphy.

However, I have noticed they have dropped 8.2.

Does anyone know for a fact is this:

1) Most likely due to the Olympics and they do not want the heavy macroblocking they typically show on their inferior HD Signal.

2) Just an equipment failure this week?

3) They intend to show a second Olympic channel on it

4) They actually care about quality and realize they need to give the main signal more bandwidth from now on.

5) Something else.

Answered tonight.....and still macroblock city....

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2241/wfladt1wt.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Yeah wfla signal is pretty anoying. I wish they would stay out of sports and stick to L&O which doesn't seem to be effected by the low bit rate.

8-1 seems better now that 8-2 is gone, but i hardly watch NBC anymore.

This is OT, but can anyone recommend a good installer/tweaker to improve tv reception on an outdoor antenna? I can't seem to find any dealers that specialize in this sort of thing. I got my antenna installed for HD in 2001 by a Dish dealer (don't recall the name); then switched to D* when the HDTiVo came out and Sound Advice modified the setup to fit the TiVo (two tuners). I'm in Lutz, and get good reception on most everything but CBS, which has a low 70's number (compared to low 90's on NBC, Fox, and ABC). The original installer put in a separate antenna pointed towards the Holiday tower for CBS, but based on the signal strength I'm getting it seems like it either needs to be replaced with a larger or more sensitive antenna.

Short of folks who sell new equ't I'm not sure who's good at trouble-shooting antenna signal issues. I have occasional breakups (usually weather related); more on CBS than on most other channels, and would like to fix this.

I'm not a DIY type guy and have no interest in climbing on my roof.

PM's are OK if you don't want to post here.

Enigma,
I wrote an aritcle that might help but only if you ware the DIY kind.
http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/01/30/ota-hd-demystified/
Tony from Satellite one or Floyd both are in that business.
They monitor over at the other forum, they may read this too.

Thanks Ben; I posted over there as well. Seems like it's easy to find someone to sell you products, or products + services, but much harder to find someone who's just selling services, and not expecting to make part of their income from margins on equ't (at least it seems that way to me, maybe I just don't know where to ask).

Almost anyone still in business selling a product expects to make a profit on it. Isn't that the American way? Either that or sell stuff at cost and charge more for labor to make enough to make it worthwhile to stay in business. Even my wholesalers mark up what they sell.
I have some customers that are able to find products at wholesale, and have asked me to get the correct product for them at wholesale cost, and only charge for labor. The problem is that then I have to make an extra trip to drive accross town, or pay for shipping, and take it back if it doesn't work out.....for no profit. I usually tell those people to get their own product, and take responsibility for it, then I'll install it.

Hello all...
Just moved out here in Brandon and currently have Brighthouse Network as cable company with an SA8300HD box. Just wondering if what other cable boxes does Brighthouse have that are HD without the PVR. Is it the SA8000HD or the SA3250HD? Does both have firewire attachments enabled? Thanks in advance...

I understand that there are different business models, etc. It just seems the "products" one is easy to find. The "services only" one doesn't seem well advertised. In my situation I have all the products (components, etc); except maybe a different antenna or some additional accessories (amp, maybe?). I mainly want to pay someone to analyze the problem (low signal on CBS compared to other channels); and either provide whatever is needed or let me get the items for them to install.

Maybe I'm not clear; but if I wanted say a whole new install (such as I got when I got my HD TiVo); I just go to Sound Advice, Audio Visions South, etc (even CC or BB); buy the stuff, and they take care of the installation.

An installation/trouble-shooting contractor who just charges an hourly rate for work performed is really what I'm trying to find. My point was that the most common business model roles service into equ't sales.

Almost anyone still in business selling a product expects to make a profit on it. Isn't that the American way? Either that or sell stuff at cost and charge more for labor to make enough to make it worthwhile to stay in business. Even my wholesalers mark up what they sell.
I have some customers that are able to find products at wholesale, and have asked me to get the correct product for them at wholesale cost, and only charge for labor. The problem is that then I have to make an extra trip to drive accross town, or pay for shipping, and take it back if it doesn't work out.....for no profit. I usually tell those people to get their own product, and take responsibility for it, then I'll install it.


Contact me off list - my screen name at tampabay rr com

I have been somewhat looking for someone who does commercial CATV Antenna installs to put in something for me.

I have tried all the Channel Masters at Lowes - Radio Shack - Home Depot - any place with a return policy - and with or without a 20db amp they all perform worse than my miracle worker - the Radio Shack Flying V HDTV Antenna (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103091&cp=&pg=6&kw=antenna&parentPage=search)

I was at the Channel 66 tower site 14 months ago to try and capture the HD Feed of Saving Private Ryan on ABC (Don't ask - I figured it was the only location I could pick up the low power direction DT feed of Channel 40 since 28 decided not to carry it).

The large antenna they have pointed at Riverview could not even pick up Channel 40's DTV at the time less than 5 miles away sitting right under their tower, yet this was able to pull it it - as well as the ABC Affiliate from Ft. Myers that they could not even get a blip on.

Over the next week, 5 broadcast engineers from several of the stations told me they purchased the antenna based on that night and it outperformed anything they had tried.

Unfortunately the wings don't hold up in the winds coming off the gulf and I have been through 3 in 18 months now.

Channel 8 is the worst problem (taking low power 38 out of it) as Channel 7 is on the low part of Hi-VHF. I get a signal in the 80s but too much variation and errors that most would not notice - but with WFLA's marginal quality, it drives me even more nuts than I am already.

As I can see the Channel 10 strobes and nothing but water in between at a 90 degree angle from the 110 degree direction of Riverview, I really only need a good antenna toward Riverview - but can't find one that will barrel the signal all the time.

So if you are up for it, bring it on - I'm game.

Just so everyone is aware, 28.1 is airing the USF Football game on Saturday. The GM wants to keep the programming the same on both signals. The ABC movie that is scheduled on Net from 8P - 11P will air locally after the game around 9P.

They are going to use a file server for the program delay, but it is SDI only.

They are planning for the first time to try and use 2 D5 HD VTR's for the digital feed and shuffle the tapes.

One of the machines has a record problem and Panasonic could not get them parts in time. So much for best laid plains.

They will record on one and use the other one for playback. Unfortunately because of this there may be some times you will see upconverted video as the tapes are changed.

They will try to make transitions during commercials.

But I give them points for trying instead of letting it slide.

This is OT, but can anyone recommend a good installer/tweaker to improve tv reception on an outdoor antenna? I can't seem to find any dealers that specialize in this sort of thing.... Short of folks who sell new equ't I'm not sure who's good at trouble-shooting antenna signal issues. I have occasional breakups (usually weather related); more on CBS than on most other channels, and would like to fix this.
Dunno if you're still looking. I am in Clearwater and found the company Antenna Connection in the yellow pages. Wonderful guy called Kevin Bennet, gave me great service helping with antenna installation and tuning on my patio.

Depending where you live, it may be a little out of your way. But it couldn't hurt giving him a call: 727-588-9126 (office) 727-542-6118 (cell).

What is the deal with this weather plus channel saw advertised wfla the other day?

Does anyone have anything good to say about the HD offerings thru Comcast in the Sarasota area? Especially the local channels?

My sister had Comcast HD for a short time in Punta Gorda, but it wasn't worth a hoot... Nothing but problems with the cable box and many drop-outs.

Now that I am getting a plasma HD monitor --- I'm was wondering if Comcast HD service in my area is better / improved.

Thanks for any help.

What is the deal with this weather plus channel saw advertised wfla the other day?

Weather plus is the NBC offering for a weather service on the subchannels. The recommend it running at 1.7Mbps, which is a ton more than the current radar loop is getting on 8.3.

As I do expect the 8.1 bitrate to come back down to suck egg level after the Olympcis and they put 8.2 back on, god forbid they would use another 2.0Mbps for Weather Plus instead of the Radar on 8.3.

If they do air Weather Plus, I wonder what their agreement is with BHN and if BHN would be forced to carry it on 607.

Odds are, it was an NBC Network promo that WFLA in their typical druken stupor like fashion, forgot to deal with. It runs all the time on Universal HD.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=7178462#post7178462

TechoFobe,

The HD channels are fine. NBC had a rough time at first but seems to be cleared up now. The station itself seemed to have a difficult time switching between HD national and local, but I haven't notice it recently. A common complaint all over the country, for a cable cos, is that the non-digital (here in Sarasota those below 100) are not the greatest. We have the same problem, but it isn't really that bad and now all the Networks are availabe on HD anyway.

A common complaint all over the country, for a cable cos, is that the non-digital (here in Sarasota those below 100) are not the greatest.

That's an understatement. Horrible would be a more appropriate description of Comcast of Sarasota's quality of those channels that are below 100. The satellite providers deliver a fair superior quality signal of those channels.

Just an FYI, Brighthouse put in the fiber circuit to WFTS for Digital 2 weeks ago so the HDTV Picture on 628 is now via fiber to the HeadEnd.

With the things that Brighthouse is doing with the signal, its somewhat hard to tell any difference.

Late Last Year when they put in the fiber for the analog channels, the digital feed to the Riverview transmitters on the D3 via Verizon was introducing some delay so that the BHN digital feed was actually 2-3 frames prior to the OTA feed.

That is not the case on 628 though.

WFTS Loss of Signal Problem finally identified after 6 weeks.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7199335#post7199335

Time for Spring Sun Outages again. Noticed them on the weaker BEV Nimiq 82 for last 2 days.

With that in mind as we go through the outages for the next 10 days, here are the rough times - actual time can vary by several minutes depending on 1) you location 2) date 3) the size of your dish 4) The Transponder Power.

Also remember that cable companies are subject to Sun Outages as well on the main distribution Satellites - though generally only for a minute or two because of their larger dishes.

61.5 (Dish) 10:55AM - 11:12AM

82 (BEV) 12:29PM - 12:46PM

91 (BEV) 1:11PM - 1:28PM

101 (Dish/Directv) 1:57PM - 2:14PM

102 (Directv) 2:05PM - 2:22PM

107 (StarChoice) 2:25PM - 2:42PM

110 (Dish/Directv) 2:38PM - 2:55PM

111 (StarChoice) 2:43PM - 3:00PM

119 (Dish/Directv) 3:18PM - 3:35PM

129 (Dish) 4:02PM - 4:19PM

148 (Dish) 5:23PM - 5:40PM

For those of you have emailed and asked about getting 148 at your location, this is a great time to site it during the soloar outage - as you can look for the sun to see where the satellite is in the sky.

This is a very tight window for 148 for the most accurate judgement if you have a line of sight based on latitude and longitude for Tampa.

03/08/2006 | 22:31:24 | 22:32:44 | 01:20 | 17:31:24 | 17:32:44
03/09/2006 | 22:30:06 | 22:33:31 | 03:25 | 17:30:06 | 17:33:31
03/10/2006 | 22:30:47 | 22:32:17 | 01:30 | 17:30:47 | 17:32:17

can anyone give me comparasion for brighthouse cable HD and D* H20 quality? I'm about to quit with the H20, i keep getting pixelation when there is fast movements. How is brighthouse's HD channels and how is their regular channels?

Brighthouse is better than the MPEG4 issues at this point - though worse than OTA.

FWIW, Both Dish and Directv are having trouble with their MPEG4 HD LILs, even though Dish isn't planning on doing the Tampa Bay Market anytime soon.

Both the Atlanta HD LILs have issues.

Brighthouse is better than the MPEG4 issues at this point - though worse than OTA.

FWIW, Both Dish and Directv are having trouble with their MPEG4 HD LILs, even though Dish isn't planning on doing the Tampa Bay Market anytime soon.

Both the Atlanta HD LILs have issues.


What i mean is for a comparison for all channels, local and nationals, the D* HD channels don't look that good to me sometimes. I'm just wondering if brighthouse will be the same. I have a pioneer 4360 btw.

the D* HD Channels don't look very good to me either. BHN is better overall.

Winners:

ESPN2HD = D* wins not on BHN
NHL/MBA/NBA/NFL SEASONTICKET = No HD on BHN
PPV-HD = probably D* winning - broader selection as well

ShowtimeHD = BHN
HBO HD = BHN
HDNET Movies = BHN
DISCOVERYHD= BHN
HDNET= BHN
TNT-HD= BHN
UHD = BHN
ESPNHD = BHN
INHD = BHN
INHD = BHN

LOCAL HD CHANNELS - NOT OTA ANTENNA
WEDU = BHN
WFLA = BHN
WTSP = BHN
WTVT = BHN
WUSF = BHN
WFTS = BHN
WMOR = BHN

Bottom Line

BHN wins 17 Channels
D* Wins 2 and Season Sports Packages

Although OTA is better for the OTA stations than either.

I was over at my brother's house lastnight and he has a pioneer 1130, and he has BHN. I was watching american idol with him and i do notice little squares when the tv is in transition to another scene real fast. I do feel relieve now. But thanx for the reply.

can anyone give me comparasion for brighthouse cable HD and D* H20 quality? I'm about to quit with the H20, i keep getting pixelation when there is fast movements. How is brighthouse's HD channels and how is their regular channels?

What channels were you getting pixelation on? What were you watching?

It looks like WeatherPlus has arrived. When I turned on Conan tonight, 8.1 was the HD network feed, 8.2 was WeatherPlus, and 8.3 was black. I haven't been watching close enough to give a report on picture quality, and 8.1 is back to stretchOvision with Carson Daly.

Try titantv I've had great luck with their schedules.

Bob onTampaBay

Actually arrived several days ago. Rescan with your tuner as 8.3 hasn't existed for over a month now and it should disappear.

That isnt to say they won't bring it back at any time.

What channels were you getting pixelation on? What were you watching?

I was watching american idol, it gives thiny squares when transitioning to diffrent scene. Not much noticeable far away, but standing close i can see it.

I was watching american idol, it gives thiny squares when transitioning to diffrent scene. Not much noticeable far away, but standing close i can see it.

Yeah everyone gets those, some sources are worse than others, but we all have to deal with that. BHN is arguably the worse of the 3.
One of the reasons wo look forward to HD dvd standards is to eliminate that.

Ben - I have not compared the D* Tampa stations with BHN as I had been using the Atlanta market with my H20. Clearly, not an overall valid scientific comparison and I would not portray it as such.

However, with all the discussion of the D* local HD issues in every market except Detroit (from several not even using real HDTVs, lol - another subject), do you really feel the locals look better in Tampa with D* than BHN?

I have to assume Tampa has all the other issues in the D* MPEG4 that others are reporting, but have not heard it from anyone locally yet.

As I have a E* Vip211 coming tomorrow on my Atlanta Account, I might just move the D* back to Tampa and compare the 3. I want to actually compare D* to E* in Atlanta first though.

And, fwiw, before anyone else gets any other ideas - the Spotbeam on the Atlanta SD channels on D* is on the same transponder as Miami SD for D* - and Tampa is right in the middle of the two - so it doesn't work for SD on D* - regardless of the Spotbeam maps showing different.

I have only had my AT9 dish installed for the last week(it took them 3 attempts to get it done) and I need a toslink cable so I can use it. I keep forgetting to buy one. So I have yet to do any comparisons, the other reason it make it hard is because I never watch anything live so I would have to in order to do a comparison. I will find the time eventually and let you know.

Has anyone switched to Verizon?

I took a look at the channel lineups and it seems that the best channels I'll gain with Verizon beat the channels I lose with BHN.

Lose:
INHD
INHD2
HDNET
AMC
Sundance (becomes premium)
IFC
WE
OLN

Get:
HD Espn 2
Espn U
HD NFL Network
HD WP
HD UPN


Price:
If I changed to Verizon, I would pay minimum 34.95 for internet plus 34.95 cable (I have verizon phone so get discount). That's $70.00 before taxes or add ons and I get the HD channels. I'll guess that the dvr cost is the same.

I might add:
15mbps: $10.00
movie and sports: $15.00 (thats for starz, encore, showtime, movie channel Flix and sundance plus the fox college sports channels)

That makes my bill 95.00. That's about what I'm paying now for internet and cable with no movie channels and 7mbps download. And that's with a discount from BHN about to expire. If that happens, and I didn't get movies, I'm paying about $30 less per month to verizon.

I guess the big questions to me are comparison of quality, learning new channel lineups, and especially how the dvr performs.

Anyone taken the plunge and have comments?

Has anyone switched to Verizon?

I took a look at the channel lineups and it seems that the best channels I'll gain with Verizon beat the channels I lose with BHN.

Lose:
INHD
INHD2
HDNET
AMC
Sundance (becomes premium)
IFC
WE
OLN

Get:
HD Espn 2
Espn U
HD NFL Network
HD WP
HD UPN


Price:
If I changed to Verizon, I would pay minimum 34.95 for internet plus 34.95 cable (I have verizon phone so get discount). That's $70.00 before taxes or add ons and I get the HD channels. I'll guess that the dvr cost is the same.

I might add:
15mbps: $10.00
movie and sports: $15.00 (thats for starz, encore, showtime, movie channel Flix and sundance plus the fox college sports channels)

That makes my bill 95.00. That's about what I'm paying now for internet and cable with no movie channels and 7mbps download. And that's with a discount from BHN about to expire. If that happens, and I didn't get movies, I'm paying about $30 less per month to verizon.

I guess the big questions to me are comparison of quality, learning new channel lineups, and especially how the dvr performs.

Anyone taken the plunge and have comments?

Read this thread:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=59212

Does anyone know if Verizon FIOS service can use any box with a QAM tuner, i e can a Sony DHG HDD500/250 be used with Fios?

Did American Idol look bad to anyone with H20 on Tuesday night? I'm so fustrated i'm about to drop D*,

If you see any difference in anything at ABC28, they put a new Tanberg encoder online this past week. They also updated the software in the SD encoder, which has dramatically improved the quality of .2 with a lower bitrate.

Tampa HighDef Channel 10 on D* went out for me during the Florida / Georgetown game... Didn't have any problem receiving Channel 710 (the UConn / Washington) game.

Did anyone else have this happen? Is this a common problem???

Channel 10 - HD looks fine this morning.

What caused this? The local station, D*, my equipment or a mysterious phenomenom?

At least Florida won, even if I had to watch it in SD. (Ughh!) ;)

HBO & SHO HD On Demand, Does anyone know if they are available on any other cable system or Sat system? Are they worink on them?

HBO & SHO HD On Demand, Does anyone know if they are available on any other cable system or Sat system? Are they worink on them?


The HD versions of the Channels On Demand do not exist today.

Why do all of the ota stations crop or strech sd programs on their hdtv broadcast?
Wtog-dt/upn does this the worst, It's annoying weather you have a 4:3 screen or 16:9 because you can't see some of the top and bottom of the image, but it's the worst if you have a 4:3 screen because you can't make it zoom in to fill the screen.

The simpsons looks 10 times better on wtvt-dt/fox than it does on wtog-dt/upn because they don't strech or crop the image.

8-1 streches all their sd shows alot, it's just all about reducing the size of those black bars isn't it?

Whenever their just playing 480i content they should broadcast in 480i, it would make recordings smaller and not have black bars on the side for 4:3 screens and alloy them to play more than one show at a time by multicasting.

Hi everyone,

I was watching American Idol on Fox last night and my digital audio kept dropping in and out at the receiver. I switched to the TV instead of the receiver for audio and it was working fine. I was getting no pixellization, so I didn't think it was a signal stregnth problem.

Thinking maybe it was a cable issue, I watched a movie right afterwards, and that was also fine.

Did anybody else have this problem, or have any suggestions if it happens again?

Hi everyone,

I was watching American Idol on Fox last night and my digital audio kept dropping in and out at the receiver. I switched to the TV instead of the receiver for audio and it was working fine. I was getting no pixellization, so I didn't think it was a signal stregnth problem.

Thinking maybe it was a cable issue, I watched a movie right afterwards, and that was also fine.

Did anybody else have this problem, or have any suggestions if it happens again?

I had perfect reception in Sarasota with no notice of any audio drops.

Is anyone in this area able to get wwsb-dt? I'm in clearwater 33756 and I can only pick up the anolog version of the channel. But that is with the indoor antenna that came with the hdtv wonder.

From what I saw on their website the digital transmitter is lower on the tower than the anolog transmitter,

Where is your tower?

The transmitting facilities of ABC 7 are located in Manatee County, near the town of Parrish. It takes an area of almost 30 acres to house our transmitter building and tower.

The ABC 7 tower is 814 feet high, or 849 feet above mean sea level. It is lighted day and night by white strobe lights that blink about once every 2 seconds. This lighting is required by the Federal Aviation Administration to provide obstruction lighting for aircraft flying overhead.

For the curious, ABC 7 transmits on the frequency of 627.25 Mhz Visual, and 631.75 Mhz Aural through a directional antenna that beams our signal south from Parrish, FL in an arc of 155 degrees. Our output power is 2880kW.

ABC 7 uses several additional microwave and business band frequencies to send our programming from our Studio on 10th Street in Sarasota, to our transmitter in Parrish, FL.

WWSB-DT transmits from the same tower that analog CH-7 uses. It is located at 17020, CR.675, in Parrish, FL. The antenna is at the 760 ft. level on our 849 ft. tower.

Our HDTV signal is transmitted on CH-52.

through a directional antenna that beams our signal south from Parrish, FL in an arc of 155 degrees. Our output power is 2880kW.

I'm guessing that the digital transmitter also points in the same direction (and HDTVFanAtic told me it pointed that way) So I'm guessing the only problem is the lower power?

So what if I got a really good outdoor directional antenna and put it on the roof? Would that make the signal come up?

I had perfect reception in Sarasota with no notice of any audio drops.

It's still doing it, only on that channel, and only seems to be happening when it's in 5.1 surround. I'm new to Fox DTV, as I just installed a new antenna. My old one was unable to pickup fox DTV. I'm guessing it's something weird with the way the receiver is picking up the 5.1 data from the signal.

It's still doing it, only on that channel, and only seems to be happening when it's in 5.1 surround. I'm new to Fox DTV, as I just installed a new antenna. My old one was unable to pickup fox DTV. I'm guessing it's something weird with the way the receiver is picking up the 5.1 data from the signal.

Sounds like your processor is having some difficulty with Fox' 5.1 audio. My B&K is having no problems with it.

Good luck solving it.

Can anyone recommend a good outdoor antenna set up for me ? I'm in Wesley Chapel, zip code 33543.

Thanks !

Well i'm gonna finally quit D* for brighthouse HD, can anyone confirm to me that the PQ will be much better on BHN then D*?

The SD is most likely better on D* until BHN drops the analog from 2-76 (or wherever it ends now) and goes digital.

The HD will look superior on BHN, but the OTA will look better OTA.

Now, quite frankly, depending on your setup, its impossible to say what you can actually tell.

If you have a system that really does 1080 and is setup correctly, its rather easy when you compare.

If you have a 720p system, then its not as easy - nor is it if the set is improperly adjusted.

i have a pioneer 4360, will this make any diffrence?

i have a pioneer 4360, will this make any diffrence?

As its resolution is only XGA at 1024 x 768, I would suspect you won't see that much difference as D* HD-Lite is above that at 1280x1080.

Source:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4123_277312046_tab=B,00.html?compName=PNA_ProductDet ailComponent#

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7283/scrubswfla0dc.th.jpg (http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scrubswfla0dc.jpg)

The picture, resolution size and graphic says it all.

WFLA and WTSP keep trying to out do each other for the worst HD Affiliate in America.

Just when you think it cannot get any worse..... "HD Where Available" means anywhere but here.

The picture, resolution size and graphic says it all.
WFLA and WTSP keep trying to out do each other for the worst HD Affiliate in America. Just when you think it cannot get any worse..... "HD Where Available" means anywhere but here.Top of the morning to ya FanAtic...

Could you possibly explain this better for me? Sorry, but "it" doesn't say it all to me. The fact is (I apologize) I'm clueless in Sarasota... :)

What does the picture, resolution size and graphic "say"? Since I've never seen HD broadcasts by other NBC and CBS affiliates I don't understand what you mean when you say that WFLA (Tampa ch. 8) and WTSP (Tampa ch. 10) are the two worst HD affilates in America.

I apologize if this is a really stupid question... I mean, I'd guess that you are saying that the these two stations' PQ is not up to snuff??? Is that what you're saying and if so, why do you say that?

I get these network broadcasts via D*'s Mpeg4 signal transmissions... I can't get their OTA signals. Would OTA be far better? But, in any case and at the risk of showing my total ignorance (that's obvious already?) the HD picture quality of the four Tampa affiliates, WTSP(8), WFLA(10), WTVT(13) and WFTS(28), all look pretty much the same to me.

On second thought, maybe I'm better off not knowing? Ignorance is bliss? :D

Top of the morning to ya FanAtic...

Could you possibly explain this better for me? Sorry, but "it" doesn't say it all to me. The fact is (I apologize) I'm clueless in Sarasota... :)

What does the picture, resolution size and graphic "say"? Since I've never seen HD broadcasts by other NBC and CBS affiliates I don't understand what you mean when you say that WFLA (Tampa ch. 8) and WTSP (Tampa ch. 10) are the two worst HD affilates in America.

I apologize if this is a really stupid question... I mean, I'd guess that you are saying that the these two stations' PQ is not up to snuff??? Is that what you're saying and if so, why do you say that?

I get these network broadcasts via D*'s Mpeg4 signal transmissions... I can't get their OTA signals. Would OTA be far better? But, in any case and at the risk of showing my total ignorance (that's obvious already?) the HD picture quality of the four Tampa affiliates, WTSP(8), WFLA(10), WTVT(13) and WFTS(28), all look pretty much the same to me.

On second thought, maybe I'm better off not knowing? Ignorance is bliss? :D

Tuesday nights Scrubs was available in HD.

It was part of a ratings ploy for the May sweeps that runs through May 24th.

However, WFLA did not bother to run it in HD - as shown in the above 1920x1080i picture.

The entire show was shown from the SD feed.

WFLA and WTSP try desperately to see who can screw up HDTV more on a daily basis - the latest is WTSP's dropping the HD in the last segment of the 10PM drama to insert a news tease over the program - right after the run a news promo in the spotset.

For 3 weeks WFLA ran every 5.1 program with NO CENTER CHANNEL IN 2.0 MODE thus you had nothing but music and sound effects.

WTSP often forgets to keep the HD on when movies run past 11PM. And they still cannot keep Letterman running in HD until the end - switching it virtually every night right in the middle of the last segment.

WFLA looks for any excuse to drop out of HD and run news crawls on their screen.

Considering I have access to 7 other markets in HD in real time, I see very few of these problems with other affiliates.

The incompetence of these 2 stations is just beyond belief - especially as Tampa is now the #12 largest TV Market in the nation.

On another issue that has me somewhat puzzled, there is something you can answer for me.

You clearly have a D* H20 and an AT9 dish to receive the Tampa OTA signals.

On your remote go to:

Menu

Settings

Setup

Sig and Ant

View Signal Strength

Done will be highlighted in Orange. Use the Arrow up on the round circle to move to the SAT - + button.

Select til you get to Sat 103 Network 14 and wait till all the - disappears.

You will most likely see mostly 0s and NA.

In position 21 (transponder 21) on the 3rd line, you will see a transponder strength number.

First Question - What is that number?

Second Question - Are there any other transponders showing anything besides 0 or NA on Network 14 and if so, what number(s) and strength?

Now, select - once and you will got to Sat 99 Network 11 and wait for the - to disappear.

Third Question - are there any transponders showing anything besides 0 and N/A? and if so, which ones and the numbers?

If you could check that, it would really help me double check something.

Thanks!

Tuesday nights Scrubs was available in HD.Well, THAT'S the problem right there! Scrubs??? Yeow! :eek:

Actually, I do understand and have experienced those same little quirks. I thought that crapola was just "NORMAL". :o

On another issue that has me somewhat puzzled, there is something you can answer for me.... You clearly have a D* H20 and an AT9 dish to receive the Tampa OTA signals.Nope, I don't gots no OTA because I'm about 50 miles southwest of the Tampa transmitters and towers PLUS my line-of-sight is blocked by gigantic Australian Pine and Punk trees to the northeast of my Tiki Hut. :mad:



First Question - What is that number?

Second Question - Are there any other transponders showing anything besides 0 or NA on Network 14 and if so, what number(s) and strength?

Third Question - are there any transponders showing anything besides 0 and N/A? and if so, which ones and the numbers?

If you could check that, it would really help me double check something.

Thanks!Sorry but as Jack Nicolson would probably say: "If I told you that, I'd have to kill you." or, "You can't handle the TRUTH!"

I have to admit that your request is a bit cryptic though... What does --- it'll help you "double check something" --- mean??? :D

Anyways, all joking aside (well...) here's the scoop:

First Answer: 100

Second Answer: Yes.

Sat 103/14 numbers are:
1 & 2 = n/a
3 thru 10 = 0
11 & 12 = n/a
13 thru 16 = 0
17 & 18 = n/a
19 thru 20 = 0
21 = 100
22 thru 24 = 0
25 = 100
26 = 0
27 & 28 = n/a
29 thru 32 = 0

Third Answer: No.

Sat 99/11 numbers are:
1 & 2 = n/a
3 thru 10 = 0
11 & 12 = n/a
13 thru 16 = 0
17 & 18 = n/a
19 thru 26 = 0
27 & 28 = n/a
29 thru 32 = 0

Hope this info helps? I'd ask you to explain why you want to know, but I'm afraid I wouldn't have a clue after you explained it to me... ;)

No problem letting you know why I asked.

First, I understand you don't get the Tampa Stations OTA. I just should have phrased my question better.

As for the signals, I have 100 on TP25 - 103 Net 14 just like you do.

At one time I had Atlanta active here. 2 weeks ago I had 2 Transponders active - so now I was down to seeing one transponder. Having seen several Transponders disappear (as it turns out, I think the last one was Birmingham that they moved to 99W) and NEVER having an active transponder reading on 99W, I was beginning to question my self installation.

If you look at the listings people are submitting from all over the Country, Tampa is the only HD LIL area where there is NO SIGNAL ON ANY 99 TRANSPONDER.

I followed the instructions to the letter - with the actual equipment they recommend, but when I came down from the roof, there was no signal (which was obviously different than what I had on the roof).

Turned out I had 101W pointed at 110W and all their checks and balances for setting 101 and then 119 and then the Ka settings give the proper readings when you are on 110W instead of 101W - which is stupid in my book that this could happen (it happens because of the multiswitch in the AT9 - still just stupid an installer could do this being off 9 degrees).

Regardless, I figured it out when I saw a signal on T28, T30 and T32 of 101 (which are the only active D* 110W Transponders) in the D* STB.

But anyway, I had to reset to the AT9 settings back and start again from scratch, not knowing how well the Ka adjustment would work the second time - as I did not know where the original starting point was.

But if you have no signal on anything but 103W TP25, I feel much better that my self install is good :D

So thank you for that.

No problem letting you know why I asked.

But if you have no signal on anything but 103W TP25, I feel much better that my self install is good :D
As I feared, your explanation went right over my head... Although not in any way your fault... You need to understand that I am basically ignorant of that there satellite mumbo jumbo. :D I plugs it in and I gets pretty pixchures. :D

For example, I don't really understand why you said that I "have no signal on anything but 103W TP25"?

I just rechecked my figures and I am getting readings of 100(%) on Sat 103 Net 14 Transponders 21 and 25, and NOT just transponder 25...

See what I mean? Mad Cow... :D

As I feared, your explanation went right over my head... Although not in any way your fault... You need to understand that I am basically ignorant of that there satellite mumbo jumbo. :D I plugs it in and I gets pretty pixchures. :D

For example, I don't really understand why you said that I "have no signal on anything but 103W TP25"?

I just rechecked my figures and I am getting readings of 100(%) on Sat 103 Net 14 Transponders 21 and 25, and NOT just transponder 25...

See what I mean? Mad Cow... :D

T25 = Transponder 25

Hmmm.....You are correct and thats what you posted - clearly I read through the list too quickly and the 00s on the end of 100 - I must have missed the 1. That's what I get for reading late at night.

Anyway, yes, I have T21 and T25 at 100 as well which really has me confused as I had dropped down to 1 for 2 weeks - now another one is back.

Still no signs of life on 99W - and that was my key concern.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=675642&highlight=at9


As you can see, 21 and 29 were the active transponders in this area 2 weeks ago.

"...I read through the list too quickly and the 00s on the end of 100 - I must have missed the 1. That's what I get for reading late at night."Zeros & Ones... :) ----- Sorcery!

So, you're collecting signal strength data and comparing that data by different market areas, you hope to be able to better understand how D* is using spotbeams?

I wanna be an apprentice sorcerer! (As if I need another distraction) I wanna know more of how geostationary satellites in orbit 22,300 miles in space relay signals from one location on the 3rd rock from the Sun to a small, limited area --- such as the Tampa market for example... Right now, it's all black science to me... How many sats does D* have in orbit and how many in use? Spaceway-3 will or is to be used exclusively for DirecWay?

When looking at the signal info on my H20-100 that's connected to an AT9 thru a Zinwell WB68 multiswitch, I get info on Sats 99, 101, 103, & 119. What is a NET? As in Sat 99 Net 10? Why does my receiver show signals on some Satellite/Net/Ttransponders and 0s or n/a on others? Where's the fifth satellite (the AT9 is a 5 LNB antenna?) Is this the back end you are working to figure out?

So, D* sends a group of signals to a particular reflector on one of their satellites (is that a net?) and can also send an entirely different group of signals to a different reflector on the same bird and depending upon the reflector --- those signals are then beamed back down to this rock in a tightly focused (100 to 200 mile radius?) spotbeam? And this allows the nice folks at D* to send different signals to different "spots" while using the same incredibly expensive satellite? Which is perfect for relaying HD-LIL with just a single sat? (Nevermind that the law limiting what signals D* can sell to which markets is a buncha economic/political hooey)

Do I have any of this right? What am I missing? Why do you want to "back end" info? Why even care what satellite/net/transponder is doing as long as you get all of these pretty pictures? :eek: But please tell me, I wanna know too. :D

If the FCC allowed it, couldn't D* simply use non-spotbeam technology with different frequencies for different markets (for example) and do the same job? Then, instead of me only being able to receive Tampa locals, I could also get locals from any locality??? And, D* could also have the ability to broadcast many more (limited by how many frequencies they are allowed to use) HD signals without investing zillions of dollars and cluttering up all of the "space" around the equator? I'm sure the FCC is only doing what's best for all of us though? :) Who is the parking meter-maid for geostationary satellites anyways? :rolleyes:

Sorry if I got carried away! Too much caffeine?

When WTSP-DT playing a DD 5.1 show there is clicking in the sound, WFLA-HD has a green line on the far left of screen. WMOR-DT has some annoying noise filtering that makes everything blured and makes the anolog version look better, they broadcast in 1080i and I don't think they've ever played an hd program in their history. WTTA-HD has the same annoying noise filter but they also stretch all the sd programs horizontally to fill the screen.


I have access to 7 other markets in HD in real time


How are you doing that? Large antenna, or can you get them through sattelite?

A lot of satellites.

The 1080i OTA Stations in Tampa are just hopelessly bad and getting worse.

At least the Engineering heads at the 720p Outlets really care about trying to get it right.

The 1080i OTA Stations in Tampa are just hopelessly bad and getting worse.


I understand what you mean regarding WFLA, but what do you see a problem with WTSP?

I have a similar problem with the WTSP sound. I have Verizon FIOS TV service and a HDTV DVR. When ever I watch something on the CBS HD channel I get a little bit of static or crackling from my center channel. It is bearable but annoying. If I switch to the CBS SD or any other channel the sound is not there. I am using an optical line from the STB to an onkyo receiver and the speakers ate the Athena Micras.

I have a similar problem with the WTSP sound. I have Verizon FIOS TV service and a HDTV DVR. When ever I watch something on the CBS HD channel I get a little bit of static or crackling from my center channel. It is bearable but annoying. If I switch to the CBS SD or any other channel the sound is not there. I am using an optical line from the STB to an onkyo receiver and the speakers ate the Athena Micras.
I have DirecTV and local HD channel sound is atrocious. Drop-outs are the norm. The picture isn't nearly as bad, but still, also frequently has problems with freezes and glitches. I just figured that it was the local stations that are not transmitting the signals well, but it might be all due to D*'s handling and Mpeg4 compression --- or even worse, a combination of the two? Not having the benefit of being able to compare my local HD reception to that available elsewhere (or even OTA) I really don't have a clue as to who the culprit is. Only that there IS a culprit and it is very obtrusive. Usually can count on a drop-out anytime the suspense builds or the feature news story begins. :rolleyes:

I suppose it just goes with the territory?

I understand what you mean regarding WFLA, but what do you see a problem with WTSP?

2.0 audio with no center channel audio on far too many occasion.

Failure to switch to HD for various segments - late virtually every single local break in late April and early May. They must have finally fired that person.

Failure to keep HD Programming on if a program runs over. For example 3 weeks ago when President spoke for 15 minutes in primetime on Monday night, guess what happened during the last 15 minutes of Letterman on WTSP?

Downconverting to 4:3 SD at the beginning of Cold Case Sundays at 8pm to run lottery results. Down converting of ANY program to 4:3 at 8:01PM when someone did not get the lotter results in the chryon for the 7:59PM break.

Downcoverting to 4:3 during the last segment of the 10pm programming to push news that they just came out of a tease for in the last commercial segment.

Failure to leave Letterman in HD until the end of the show instead of switching in the middle of the closing segment - the few times they do leave it on until the end you can tell - they the Late Late show is replaced by Color Bars for up to 15 minutes until someone notices.

Continued satellite fade - and its not like we have hit the really bad weather yet this year.

I could go on and on....but, the biggest is I GET FAR BETTER BITRATES and PICTURE FROM KCBS then locally from WTSP....and btw....I can see their tower and strobes from my backyard and roof - and nothing but water in between.

EDIT - THESE ARE JUST THE PROBLEMS THAT COME TO MIND IN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION, LOL...I AM SURE THERE ARE MORE.

BTW, do you see any signs of life out of the 99W bird here?

FWIW, Brighthouse is remapping several QAMs this week. If you have a CableCard, its probably going to go to a blackscreen on 36 digital channels.

The easiest way to reset it is to eject and replug in the cablecard to make it acquire the new mapping.

<<snip>>

The only expected and unavoidable residual impact from this maintenance is to CableCards. The affected channels will probably show up as blackscreen to CableCard TV’s until the customer goes in to the settings on their TV and instruct the TV to re-read the revised SI data the DNCS is now sending. This is done by selecting “Channel List Reorganization” (may be called something else or not available; varies by TV make and model), issuing a CableCard reset (less recommended as this can cause more problems for some TV’s), or even by simply ejecting the CableCard from the TV and reinserting it. Powercycling the TV alone will probably not help much. This residual impact was listed in the maintenance ticket. DHCT’s are not affected by this problem as they constantly monitor the OOB SI data for updates and changes in the tuning tables and apply them as soon as they process the updates broadcasted from the siManager process on the DNCS.”

I have DirecTV and local HD channel sound is atrocious. Drop-outs are the norm. The picture isn't nearly as bad, but still, also frequently has problems with freezes and glitches. I just figured that it was the local stations that are not transmitting the signals well, but it might be all due to D*'s handling and Mpeg4 compression --- or even worse, a combination of the two? Not having the benefit of being able to compare my local HD reception to that available elsewhere (or even OTA) I really don't have a clue as to who the culprit is. Only that there IS a culprit and it is very obtrusive. Usually can count on a drop-out anytime the suspense builds or the feature news story begins. :rolleyes:

I suppose it just goes with the territory?

Do you ever get up to Tampa?

If so, would you be interested in letting me loan you a Directv HD STB that is on a commercial account in NYC (you would get the 4 networks from NY in MPEG2 instead of the MPEG4 out of Tampa) in exchange for using your box with the the Tampa MPEG4 for a week or so.

I would love to have a H20 to give hard core testing side by side with OTA in Tampa.....although, I can tell you that in the case of ABC and FOX, the picture is BETTER from NY via D* than it is OTA from these 2 outlets. With Fox, there is really no explanation why as they all use the same feed and its out of the West Coast (unless something has changed).

CBS was just a wire down the hall with no Satellite Dish involved so I know that USED to be better via Dish. Even KCBS via Dish (and remember, they don't have the wire down the hall - but receive via satellite) is far superior to WTSP.

NBC and CBS are 1280x1080i instead of 1920x1080i on D* but it wouldnt surprise me if both of these were better as than local - given the nature of the problems with WTSP and WFLA.

I really want to look at the two signals in quasi real time side by side.

I'm with Comcast in Sarasota, Fl. I have two Sony DHG HDD 500 DVR's which have been working nearly perfectly for four months until I lost the clock and all guide updates last week. My host channel had been 1:0:3(cable channel 3) and I was receiving good VBI data on Ch 3 until I stopped getting updates last week but none since. I've found that I still get good VBI packets on two other cable channels(7ABC & 13FOX).


IS anyone else in the Tampa- Sarasota area having trouble getting TVGOS guide data from WEDU channel 3 either through Comcast cable or directly OTA?

To follow up on the Brighthouse QAM data listed several days ago, the reason is that they are moving the channels from 4 QAMs up to higher frequencies - and will begin simulcasting the analog channels (2-70's) on these QAMs such as is now being done with BHN in Central Florida. From the online reports there, it makes a big difference.

That is the first step before we finally get rid of the these analog behemoths that take up far too much bandwidth so they can put on more HD Programming.

Do you ever get up to Tampa?HDTVFanAtic,

Yes, but I never know when or for that matter, when I would be back that way... :)

I wish I had a waiver to receive the east and west coast network feeds... I used to have them, before Congress voted to make it illegal for me to have them. So much for a "free" country? Even though I was paying for them? :rolleyes:

So, I think that I will pass on your offer. But it would be nice to know how they compare though?

Your right those issues are annoying and have been for some time.

As for anything to do with the H20, I never use it. I was excited to get it at first, but the lack of recorability has prevented me from using at all.

I am having reception problems with NBC and CBS in Tampa. I live in Apollo Beach and currently have a round Channel Master antenna on the roof of a 2 story house. I had a Channel Master Stealth on the roof but my installer swaped it out saying the round one is better since I was having problems with CBS HDTV at times. The round one is worse. I can get ABC, NBC, CBS and Fox in HD but a lot of times CBS or NBC will pixilate and or lose the signal.

Any suggestions on a better antenna for my area? Were to buy in Tampa
I am using a D* HR10-250 and have to stay with D* for the NFL package.

thanks! Mike

To follow up on the Brighthouse QAM data listed several days ago, the reason is that they are moving the channels from 4 QAMs up to higher frequencies - and will begin simulcasting the analog channels (2-70's) on these QAMs such as is now being done with BHN in Central Florida. From the online reports there, it makes a big difference.

That is the first step before we finally get rid of the these analog behemoths that take up far too much bandwidth so they can put on more HD Programming.

Will they be in clear qam or will they be a pain and encrypt them? It would be awesome to beable to watch atleast the basic cable channels in digital on my pc instead of analog.

As someone else stated on another forum, I would be shocked if these are not encrypted for several reasons.

Hey, guys. Just bought my new Hitachi 51" HDTV rear projection unit today and it will be in by next weekend. Don't know if this is the right place to ask, but here goes:

I currently have DishNetwork with a 625 DVR receiver. Obviously it is not HDTV.

I have 9 months left on my "contract" and if I cancel and go to Cable I have to pay $120.

Should I:

A) Go with Brighthouse Digital Cable and their HD DVR?

B) Upgrade to Dish HD with their DVR?


Looks like with my cable internet already being provided for by Brighthouse, my total cost per month with the HD DVR, cable internet, and Digital cable would be $106.

Currently paying $44.95 for the cable internet. So I end up paying $60 more for the digital HDTV cable and their HD-DVR.

I currently pay $71 for the Dish Network satellite (non-HD) and regular 625 DVR, not the HD-DVR I'd need. If I went with the Dish package, and me not having the phone line and having to pay more, I'd end up paying $92 a month just for the Dish package with HD.

I guess the only thing that bugs me is not being able to pause live TV on any of my non HD sets, or control the DVR - but hell, it isn't that big of a deal. Most of that TV watching is very limited.

Plus the thing I like about Cable is that I don't have to deal with weather issues, contracts, or the equipment - if the cable box/DVR breaks, they replace it vs. me having to pay $7 a month for the "Protection" package for the Dish system, and that is after buying the receiver/DVR up front.

Hmm, I think I just answered my own question.


Any big differences in the quality of the HD feed here with Brighthouse vs. picture quality through Dish?

I have tuned to channel 10 (WTSP) numerous times in the last week or so only to see a message from D* that says:

No Need to call us-
Your local station is working to restore their signal as soon as possible
The TV station is having difficulties

These outages involve only the HD feed and seem to last for extended periods of time. What is going on? Is channel 10's HD OTA also out? Anyone know what problem WTSP is actually having with their signal? (As if I would even understand any answer.) :)

Is anyone else experiencing audio problems on their Brighthouse DVRs, specifically on HD channels? The US Open had no audio on Sunday for instance. It has something to do with Dolby encoding on the digital audio output.

I thought my box was acting up, and I had Brighthouse replace it but it didn't help. I still had the audio problems on certain channels, so I went into the setup and changed the digital audio output to 'Other' and I then get audio. I am not sure what 'Other' means. What I am doing now is leaving it on 'Dolby' but if I get a channel with no audio, I go into the setup and change the digital audio output to 'Other' as a workaround.

The Tech who visited the house was really no help. Among other things he suggested I use component video connections as opposed to HDMI and I use RCA connections for audio instead using digital Audio. Why don't I just get some rabbit ears.

Rick in St. Pete.

Why don't I just get some rabbit ears.
Snarf! Chuckle! Snort!

Sorry, that isn't helping. No, I'm not seeing any problems.

I live in Bradenton and have Brighthouse cable. I have an SA 8300 HD cable box.

Just got a Samsung HL-S5087W TV, which has 2 HDMI inputs. When I hook up an HDMI cable from the cable box to the TV I can only get HD channels through that HDMI input. I can't get the SD or 480P channels. I know the HDMI inputs on the TV work well, since I've tried a DVD player in both of them and they both worked fine. And I know the cable itself works fine since I've also tested it on other things. So it looks like the SA box is the culprit here.

I just returned to Brighthouse an SA 8300 HD box because of this problem, and now I find I have the same problem with this new one. A sales rep at Circuit City, where I bought the TV, said others who bought the TV have no problems with HDMI from cable.

Is there some trick I'm missing here or some setting I'm overlooking? Anyone hear of this before or have any ideas? Right now I'm using component video cables to watch cable, and that's working well. But I'd like to have the HDMI option. Thanks in advance.

I have tuned to channel 10 (WTSP) numerous times in the last week or so only to see a message from D* that says:

No Need to call us-
Your local station is working to restore their signal as soon as possible
The TV station is having difficulties

These outages involve only the HD feed and seem to last for extended periods of time. What is going on? Is channel 10's HD OTA also out? Anyone know what problem WTSP is actually having with their signal? (As if I would even understand any answer.) :)

They have been off a lot over the past week - OTA as well. They usually turn it right before the evening news - sometimes as late as 7pm.


I have seen Channel 10 off more during the day for extended periods than all the other DT stations combined. Channel 8 is the runner up. 13 or 28 is virtually never off compared either of these 2. In fact, the only time I see 28 off is when 8 is also off as someone is doing antenna work in Riverview and everyone has to go down on the tower.

The difference is, Channel 8 goes down around 12:30am and does it overnight when needed.

Channel 10's engineers don't believe in that - taking it down 9-5 so they do not have to work outside of office hours.

EDIT: Down now as we speak - must be nice to keep banker's hours for a TV Engineering staff.

"They have been off a lot over the past week - OTA as well...
...Channel 10's engineers don't believe in that - taking it down 9-5 so they do not have to work outside of office hours... ...EDIT: Down now as we speak - must be nice to keep banker's hours for a TV Engineering staff..."So much for the old motto: "The Show Must Go On". :)

The station's management must be out-to-lunch. It has always been my understanding that stations work incredibly hard to gain marketshare (viewership). So, for them to take such a cavalier attitude towards keeping the HD signals up and running makes little sense. When they are off-the-air (or off the satellite as is the case with me) I just do what seems natural. I watch their competitor's programming. Channel 10's advertisers must love that? Or, maybe there are so few HD viewers at this point that it doesn't matter? That would surprise me. Or, maybe those folks who are avid (maniacal?) soap opera fans will watch their SD feed? ;)

At any rate thanks for letting me know waht's what. Maybe I'll grab a placard and go picket their broadcasting facilities... Who knows if enough people actually did that --- maybe Channel 8 news would cover the event? :rolleyes:

I'm sure happy that I'm not a soap opera fanatic. :D

About 3pm this afternoon, I was on the phone with engineers at the other tower site in Holiday and ask them to go outside and see if there was any activity on the WTSP tower (i.e. someone climbing the tower doing work that would neccesitate them taking it off the air). There wasn't.

Of course, they put it back on the air - only to have it fail during CSI tonight. Was dead from then on. Obviously just dead OTA. On Brighthouse they had a slate up that said the channel was off the air with technical difficulties.

As stated, Channel 10 is just horrible. Considering their committment to HDTV in other markets, Gannet is clearly giving Tampa a big F U

"...the channel was off the air with technical difficulties. As stated, Channel 10 is just horrible. Considering their committment to HDTV in other markets, Gannet is clearly giving Tampa a big F U
Do you think this is largely a matter of Gannet not trying hard enough or not putting enough effort (and money) into their committment to providing high-definition broadcasts? It's one thing to occasionally have technical difficulties --- that can't be helped. But when the signals are failing so frequently --- their customers have a legitimate beef... I wonder if the "squeaky wheel" isn't squeaky enough? It seems like whenever I tune to channel 10 (HD) --- it is off-the-air more often than on-the-air...

Is there a contact person to complain to about this poor performance? (Not that it would necessarily help.) Maybe this:

Questions or requests for our Community Relations Director or Programming Director should go to community@tampabays10.com.

Or, perhaps the station's broadcast engineer and/or station's manager would be better?

Do you think this is largely a matter of Gannet not trying hard enough or not putting enough effort (and money) into their committment to providing high-definition broadcasts? It's one thing to occasionally have technical difficulties --- that can't be helped. But when the signals are failing so frequently --- their customers have a legitimate beef... I wonder if the "squeaky wheel" isn't squeaky enough? It seems like whenever I tune to channel 10 (HD) --- it is off-the-air more often than on-the-air...

Is there a contact person to complain to about this poor performance? (Not that it would necessarily help.) Maybe this:

Questions or requests for our Community Relations Director or Programming Director should go to community@tampabays10.com.

Or, perhaps the station's broadcast engineer and/or station's manager would be better?

You mean the same Broadcast Engineer responsible for this fiasco?

Or the station manager who is too concerned about the softness of the advertising market right now that he doesn't react when their news guy is pulled over going 100+ on the Courtney Campbell Causeway, headed home from the Martini Bar and refuses to take a breathalizer? That Station Manager?

You mean the same Broadcast Engineer responsible for this fiasco?

Or the station manager who is too concerned about the softness of the advertising market right now that he doesn't react when their news guy is pulled over going 100+ on the Courtney Campbell Causeway, headed home from the Martini Bar and refuses to take a breathalizer? That Station Manager?Yeah! 'Dems the guys... :D

Complaining to management wasn't my first choice to express my displeasure. I still think that picketing their facilities would be better. Maybe get a group of employess from Mons Venus and have them march in the buff... Still might not help get WTSP to do any better and wouldn't be cheap --- but it'd be fun to organize. :)

Has WTSP's HD service always been this bad?

It sounds like a shake-up in their management is far over-due... Their advertising revenues must be adversely affected from such lousy management --- so unless the station is family owned & operated --- they will eventually have to go? Preferably sooner than later.

'Til then I guess we just live with it? :confused:

Revenue being down has nothing to do with their ratings. It's a soft ad market nationwide.


And a new low for Tampa HD Tonight....

Channel 10 drops out of CSI and 48 hours (not that I cared) for a local movie in SD.

Channel 28 drops A Bugs Life in OAR HD (7.3 ratings on IMDB) for a Christmas Special Home Alone 2 in SD that pulled a glorious 5.1 on IMDB - and wasn't even in HD.

And this was the first time to possibly see it without the ABC Green Stripe that was eliminated earlier this year and Channel 28's new encoders :(

It's starting again this year already....

Anyone else who uses TVGOS guide data having trouble with channel 3 WEDU out of Tampa? I'm in Sarasota using Comcast cable and have not been receiving VBI data since last night.

So far I've been lucky - all my local HD channels through my Brighthouse HD cable box/DVR have looked great.

I took the plunge and bought a Channel Master 4228 antenna to connect to my DirecTV HD receiver (model H20). After I stuck it up on my roof, I was astounded to discover that all of the people who raved about how much better HD looks when using an OTA antenna were NOT exaggerating.

I resisted installing an antenna to get HD because I was afraid that I wouldn't get any signals strong enough to watch. Fact is though, even with huge trees blocking my view to the northeast --- I get lots of station's sub-channels.

However, I am not getting WTSP (10-1) or WUSF (16-1 etc) or WWSB (40-1). Channel 40 is the local ABC affiliate --- but I can't get it? :) Figures...

What I am wondering is if I have the antenna aimed at all correctly. While the signal for WFLA (8-1) varies from 77 to 87, the signal strength for WTSP (10-1) ranges from 0 to 54. Is it farther away, in a different line-of-sight or what? Maybe VHF instead of UHF?

And what gives with WUSF (16-1) and WWSB (40-1)?

Would an amplifier for the antenna help?

Plus, no rainfade with OTA... :cool:

You want to be aiming at Riverview. An amplifier may help, but forget 10, since they are in Holiday. 8 can be weak at times, since it's in the VHF frequency and 40, while their transmitter is in Parrish, is known to run at reduced power. On 16, you're not missing anything, but I do get it.

Glad you took the plunge with the outdoor antenna. How high up did you go?

Hi Ron,

I just don't understand the basics of OTA and UHF antennas. What is "frequency assignment"? I guess that is where the VHF vs. UHF comes in? And the FCC? Why in the world does channel 8 broadcast using channel 7?

I think that with the tall trees that are in my way, I definitely qualify as being in a "fringe" area? :)

My antenna is mounted about 30' high and currently aimed in the general direction of about 25 degrees which is quite a bit farther east than Riverview? That's the suggested magnetic compass heading based on info from http://www.antennaweb.org. Am I aiming the antenna too far eastward?

I receive WFLA-8 (42 miles away at 24 degrees) and WEDU-3 (42.3 miles away at 24 degrees) but WFTS-28 (42 miles away at 24 degrees) has a very weak signal. Is that because they are transmitting with less power? I have to LOL: WWSB doesn't transmit with enough power to reach their service area? Why doesn't that surprise me? It sure would be nice to be able to watch their crack newsteam in action... :rolleyes: Oh well...

What really seems weird to me (?) is that from my location, Fort Myers is almost 90 degrees from the direction I am now aiming to get the Tampa stations --- but I get the ABC, NBC and FOX stations from Fort Myers fine. Is that the same for you? Antennaweb also recomends that I use a pre-amp to get the Fort Myers' stations. I wonder if my neighbor's trees block the signals less from Fort Myers? Still, it all seems pretty strange...

I wish I would have tried the antenna before now. It was pretty cheap actually and not too hard to install between rain storms yesterday. :) I am blown away with the improvement in my local stations as compared to the Mpeg-4 channels that I get from D*. The locals now look as good as the national HD feeds from D*. Very nice!

Channel 16 is a puzzle. I wonder if I am just doing something (stupid) wrong. Doesn't WUSF share the same tower as WEDU? Like you said though, it isn't a really big deal... Just curious.

Thanks for the input. If I decide to try out a pre-amp with this Channel Master UHF antenna, is there one pre-amp that is better than another? :)

Hi Ron,

I just don't understand the basics of OTA and UHF antennas. What is "frequency assignment"? I guess that is where the VHF vs. UHF comes in? And the FCC? Why in the world does channel 8 broadcast using channel 7?



Channel 8 broadcasts on channel 7 because they are already using channel 8 for ther NTSC signal and they can't broadcast both at the same time from the same channel.

Frequency assignment was created to deal with this problem. The owners wanted to be found at their expected location while at the same time simulcasting both NTSC and ATSC, until the digital transition is over. Some channels expect to move after NTSC is turned off.

The better question is why did the FCC let 13 and 8 stay VHF while forcing the rest all to UHF. In fact Tampa is one of 16 markets with 2 VHF stations in the US. It would have been easier for everyone is the FCC would have pushed everyone to UHF. But it requires more power for the same range as VHF.

All channels should be at full power at of July 1st 2006 as per FCC mandate.

If you know that any channel is not at full power, file a complaint with the FCC.

Channel 8 broadcasts on channel 7 because they are already using channel 8 for ther NTSC signal and they can't broadcast both at the same time from the same channel.Ahhh, I get it. But I do not understand what the deal is with the subcarriers (I think that's what they're called).

For example, there is 8-1, 8-2, and 8-3.

Sorry to ask such dumb questions. I googled it but came up blank... :o

As for governmental regulations, does it surprise anyone that "they" don't do things intelligently.

The 960 thru 970 test channels have been around for several weeks now. Any word of what they are going to be used for?

Also, with Comcast adding new HD channels left and Right, what's up with our beloved BHN adding ESPN2HD, MTVHD and others?

Ahhh, I get it. But I do not understand what the deal is with the subcarriers (I think that's what they're called).

For example, there is 8-1, 8-2, and 8-3.


That is refered to as multicasting, it is when a station decides that it would rather dedicate its bandwidth to multiple stations rather than dedicating all the bits to HD. It is possible to not effect the PQ of the HD stream, but typically it does which is why it is a bad word around here. Some stations choose to not broadcast HD at all and instead transmitt multiple SD channels like channel 16.

What technology or equipment/gear do the locals need as to NOT drop out of HD
when running a scroll, weather alert, lottery stuff, graphics, etc...?

Hey guys and gals!

I live down in the Gulf Gate area in Sarasota. I have a couple questions. I am new to HD OTA broadcasting.

I am getting a TV that has a HD tuner, capable of getting OTA broadcasts. Do I need an external antenna? If so, what is the general preference?

Is there a listing of OTA signals in Sarasota?

How is Comcasts HD lineup? Is the picture really good? They only charge $5/mo for HD access. That seems like a simple choice.

Has anyone switched from one to another yet? Or did a comparison of the HD/SD quality of the services? If so, could you share some of the experiences?

I currently have Brighthouse but not enthralled with the SA83000HD box, wonder if the FIOS Motorola box is any better.

Thanks,
Lesmiz

Ft. Myers/Naples moved their antenna from Lee/Collier County to the far North so that it could cover up to Sarasota and Bradenton. In their mind, there was no reason to broadcast to aligators south of Naples. If iirc, that tower was damaged in the 2004 hurricane though and I am not sure the exact status at this time. I believe it is damaged but still operational.

WWSB is damn near impossible anyway. It's highly directional. I have no first hand knowledge if it is at full power, but they told the commission they would meet the deadline here: http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101024516&formid=381&fac_num=61251

However, if I have read this application properly http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=318723 WWSB applied to reduce their power output from 200,000 watts to 12,000 watts and it was granted.

28 is actually higher power than some of the others you mention. It should be easier to pick up.

There is a concept with MANY TV Engineers (including foxeng on avsforum) that high VHF is prime real estate. I disagree and clearly bdraw does as well. Time will tell. When 2009 rollsround and all channels above 51 disappear we will see what happens.

I have no problem with WTVT (12 virtual 13) but WFLA (7 virtual 8) is a nightmare. If Media General and Fox did not want those frequencies HI-VHF channels, they could have thrown them back into the pot during the past 3 election periods or worked a trade privately with any of the other stations to change channels. Since they did not, others must also consider this prime real estate as well. Personally, I believe its just an effort to reduce their electric bill.

You do know that WEDU-DT chose channel 13 (with 50 as a fallback) in the 2nd round elections?

So it seems to be:

WFLA elected to say put at Channel 7 where they are now at.

WTSP elected in Round 1 to move back to Channel 10.

WTVT appears to be staying put at channel 12 where they are now at.

WEDU at channel 13 or 50.

WMOR elected channel 19 (where they are now at)

WCLF appears to have requested channel 21.

WWSB elected channel 24 (that's where Channel 10 is temporarily at right now).They original requested to return to channel 40 and were shot down.

WVEA appears to have elected channel 25.

WFTS elected Channel 29 (where they are now at) in round 1.

WUSF elected channel 34 where they are now at.

WTTA filed to return to Channel 38 in 2009 and was rejected. It appears they were finally approved to return to 38 after putting in a highly directional antenna. http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=414330

WXPX is staying at Channel 42.

WTOG chose channel 44, but it was dismissed because of interference with WTVK in Naples on Channel 45 and has gone to resolution. However, WTVK has filed to be sold, so no idea where that one is at.

So, most likely there will be 4 stations between 7-13 - not 2.

Does anyone know why PBS HD (WEDU) doesn't pass 5.1 surround sound. Do they need to buy another piece of equipment or what? The show soundstage is pretty cool but only 2.0 sound which sux! later,eric

Has WEDU ever had 5.1 audio?

I know every time I have gone past 3.5 in the last week, the audio has had major problems and has digital decoding errors (sounding almost like a digital buzz saw). At first I thought it was on my end until I verified it on my end with 3.5 and 605 on Brighthouse.

I gave up on WEDU with the low bitrate a year ago. It's pretty sad that the BEV feed from Boston and Seattle blow it away in terms of bitrate - but that's still nothing considering for less than $300 (less than $150 in some cases if you have an extra dish sitting around) you can get a fullbitrate PBD-HD feed with 5.1 directly off the satellite.

FYI, I spoke with the Consulting Engineer listed on the WWSB FCC filing today. He says that WWSB will be 12kw until at least the 2009 analog cutoff date.

I somewhat take that to mean they are most likely buying the Channel 24 equipment from WTSP when they move back to 10.

FYI, I spoke with the Consulting Engineer listed on the WWSB FCC filing today. He says that WWSB will be 12kw until at least the 2009 analog cutoff date.

I somewhat take that to mean they are most likely buying the Channel 24 equipment from WTSP when they move back to 10.Regardless, the fact remains that I am unable to receive my "local" Sarasota ABC affiliate: WWSB-DT. Perhaps I am missing something? I mean something besides channel 40-1? It just seems strange that I am unable to receive the ABC station that is literally "local" and instead have to tune in the ABC affiliate located in Tampa (WFTS)...

There might be a perfectly good reason for this --- but for me, it really doesn't matter whether WWSB transmits at 12kW or 12W or stops broadcasting altogether.

What's wrong with this "picture"?

Regardless, the fact remains that I am unable to receive my "local" Sarasota ABC affiliate: WWSB-DT. Perhaps I am missing something? I mean something besides channel 40-1? It just seems strange that I am unable to receive the ABC station that is literally "local" and instead have to tune in the ABC affiliate located in Tampa (WFTS)...

There might be a perfectly good reason for this --- but for me, it really doesn't matter whether WWSB transmits at 12kW or 12W or stops broadcasting altogether.

What's wrong with this "picture"?

Ed:

I think the real answer is that they don't really care about the OTA digital audience. They try to encourage local residents, like us, to petition our satellite providers to include WWSB in the local lineup. They are proud that their SD and HD signal is fed to Comcast via a fiber optic line. But beyond that, they must figure that the OTA digital audience is not big enough to support the additional cost of running their transmitter at full power. Rather warped thinking on their part, IMO.

Ed:

I think the real answer is that they don't really care about the OTA digital audience. They try to encourage local residents, like us, to petition our satellite providers to include WWSB in the local lineup. They are proud that their SD and HD signal is fed to Comcast via a fiber optic line. But beyond that, they must figure that the OTA digital audience is not big enough to support the additional cost of running their transmitter at full power. Rather warped thinking on their part, IMO.That makes a lot of sense... But I don't only fault only the management of WWSB. After all, they are only doing what they can do to minimize expenses and maximize profits (the good old "American Way").

In my somewhat naive opinion --- situations like these are exactly when the FCC should jump in. :rolleyes:

The only partially redeeming factor in this is that WWSB's on air news & weather personalities are so bad that I don't feel too terrible about not being able to tune in... Obviously, the station cuts more budgetary corners than just the transmitter power levels? :p

(edited after taking a chill-pill)

Hey guys, can anyone give me their opinion of Comcast HD? Has anothone seen it? My apartment building in Sarasota doesn't have any sort of antenna hookup. Please help!

Michael

Comcast varies from city to city. I know some cities where its really good and see reports of where its really bad.

I have heard the SD channels look like crap in Sarasota but have never seen them. However, no one that I know of has really commented on the HD channels - and they do have a lot of channels I wish BHN had - like CinemaxHD.

I am curious if you get their HD package what you think.

I would like to know what comcast charges in different parts of the area S/W Florida for there hdtv services. All I wanted was the direct network feeds which they gave me for 5.00 a month( Sarasota). After I set it up I realized I didn't have the DVR service with the box (SA 8300hd). I called them up to add this and they wanted 19.95 more a month which they told me would give all these other channels that I do not want. They said I'm sorry if you want the DVR capabilies it will cost you 24.95 total per month. Is this what they are charging in other areas of the region? Can I just buy a dvr and hook it up. Thanks.

Hey guys, sorta OT. Does anyone have a Russound dealer they recommend in the area? I was tossing around the idea of getting a multi-zone audio system installed and wanted to talk to someone.

THanks!
Aaron in St. Pete

jskimerer, I was in the same boat with Comcast. The reason it's 24.95 is because the DVR SA8300 is a digital cable box at the same time. Digital cable is 19.95 + 5 for the DVR. This incldes the misc. HD programming on the upper channels.

Don't discount the other HD channels you don't want. Discovery HD as well a INHD are really good. If you can wing it, treat yourself!

I had Comcast HD until last fall. The HD picture was very good, but their HD DVR was marginal (80g hard drive for one thing). I get basic Comcast included in my condo fees. It cost me about $28 more to get HD and their HD DVR. I now have two Sony HDD DHG 500's(each have 500Gig hard drives) with QAM tuners and get local HD channels free.

Stingray1 - Your condo has free basic Comcast! That's cool. So you get the local channels but none of the Cable HD channels? Are you thinking of getting the Comcast HD again when the channel selection improves?

I live in St. Petersburg... have BrightHouse Cable... and want the NFL channel.

I have called BrightHouse and requested the NFL channel, but they continuously say that is is a DirectTV channel only. How can this be? :confused: :confused: :confused:

I have read that the NFL channel is going to start showing NFL games that aren't on local channels. How are we to see them?

Does anyone know the scoop on Brighthouse cable and the NFL channel?

I live in St. Petersburg... have BrightHouse Cable... and want the NFL channel.

I have called BrightHouse and requested the NFL channel, but they continuously say that is is a DirectTV channel only. How can this be? :confused: :confused: :confused:

I have read that the NFL channel is going to start showing NFL games that aren't on local channels. How are we to see them?

Does anyone know the scoop on Brighthouse cable and the NFL channel?

I don't have any scoop as to Brighthouse, but the NFL channel is offered on Dish Network.

Stingray1 - Your condo has free basic Comcast! That's cool. So you get the local channels but none of the Cable HD channels? Are you thinking of getting the Comcast HD again when the channel selection improves?

It's free but I pay indirectly in my condo fees.

I also get D* HD for NFL sunday ticket so I get some of the national HD channels from D*(I don't have Mpeg4 so don't get locals in HD from D*). Pretty much all but INHD1 & 2. I'm hoping my condo will switch to Verizon FiosTV when/if it becomes available here. It is in my county already but not where I live. If that happened I could upgrade to movies & sports and get all the movie channels including HD except HBO & Cinemax plus a lot of sports channels including NFL HD for about $15/mo extra(not much more than a single movie channel would cost on D* or Comcast). That would also save me on high speed internet. I'd still need D* for Sunday ticket however.

I live in St. Petersburg... have BrightHouse Cable... and want the NFL channel.

I have called BrightHouse and requested the NFL channel, but they continuously say that is is a DirectTV channel only. How can this be? :confused: :confused: :confused:

I have read that the NFL channel is going to start showing NFL games that aren't on local channels. How are we to see them?

Does anyone know the scoop on Brighthouse cable and the NFL channel?


Comcast, Sarasota, also has the NFL channel but not in HD.

jskimerer, I was in the same boat with Comcast. The reason it's 24.95 is because the DVR SA8300 is a digital cable box at the same time. Digital cable is 19.95 + 5 for the DVR. This incldes the misc. HD programming on the upper channels.

Don't discount the other HD channels you don't want. Discovery HD as well a INHD are really good. If you can wing it, treat yourself!

Comcast uses Scientific Atlanta equipment in Sarasota????

Comcast uses Scientific Atlanta equipment in Sarasota????

Yes.

Has anyone been having issues with WFLA during live HD broadcasts? The Busch race a couple of days ago was really bad and the NHL finals had issues. Typically, it seems like bottom half of the picture will pixalate every so often. I'm watching on Brighthouse in Brandon via HD DVR. I thought it was whenever a commercial on the weather subchannel played I would see the problem, but the folks at WFLA said this is not the case.

I get the same problem on Brighthouse...I haven't checked OTA because of signal strength for that channel. I don't just get the pixilation for live broadcasts but also other shows.

I live in St. Petersburg... have BrightHouse Cable... and want the NFL channel.

I have called BrightHouse and requested the NFL channel, but they continuously say that is is a DirectTV channel only. How can this be? :confused: :confused: :confused:

I have read that the NFL channel is going to start showing NFL games that aren't on local channels. How are we to see them?

Does anyone know the scoop on Brighthouse cable and the NFL channel?

It is on verizon fios in Tampa. Don't know if fios is available to you. Espn2 is also available in HD and Espn U on SD. That's the main reason I'm on fios.

It is on verizon fios in Tampa. Don't know if fios is available to you. Espn2 is also available in HD and Espn U on SD. That's the main reason I'm on fios.I've never heard of fios. I'll try to see if it's offered in St. Petersburg. Thanks.

Has anyone been having issues with WFLA during live HD broadcasts? The Busch race a couple of days ago was really bad and the NHL finals had issues. Typically, it seems like bottom half of the picture will pixalate every so often. I'm watching on Brighthouse in Brandon via HD DVR. I thought it was whenever a commercial on the weather subchannel played I would see the problem, but the folks at WFLA said this is not the case.

Shawn12341234

I saw this for the last 2 days on WFLA (Have not looked today), most recently last night when I scanned past the Miss Universe Pageant.

I went to OTA and verified it was happening OTA as well as on Brighthouse.

I then checked the NBC stations out of Atlanta, New York, Boston and Detroit to verify it was not in the feed (with NBC you never know with their crappy Ku band distribution) - it wasn't the feed.

It's a problem @ WFLA and if they don't want see it, that's typical of so many issues with WFLA with HDTV.

It's a sad state when WTSP and WFLA constantly vie for title of who's the worst with HD in Tampabay.

JBeach

Fios is not available in Pinellas County right now. Verizon sold what is now Knology and had a non-compete until this year - so they have not been able to build in Pinellas until the non-compete is over.

Fios is not available in Pinellas County right now. Verizon sold what is now Knology and had a non-compete until this year - so they have not been able to build in Pinellas until the non-compete is over.Thanks for the information. I didn't realize FiOS was Verizon Fiber.

Maybe that's why Brighthouse has stopped adding HD channels. Maybe they're waiting to make a big splash with new channels around the time FiOS is offered in St. Petersburg.

I wonder when they will start offering FiOS in St. Petersburg?

I get the same problem on Brighthouse...I haven't checked OTA because of signal strength for that channel. I don't just get the pixilation for live broadcasts but also other shows.

I have only recently watched NASCAR and NHL on WFLA. I'm scared that this problem will exist once footbal season starts.

I have only recently watched NASCAR and NHL on WFLA. I'm scared that this problem will exist once footbal season starts.

Just wait til we start having Tropical Storms and WFLA will drop out of HD to run Newscrawlers and the like every chance they get.

Between that and their other HD screwups, you'll learn to hate them fast.

They ran for 3-4 weeks with no center channel dialouge - only music and sound effects - and no one noticed until I couldn't take it any longer and finally called.

They will often forget to go to HD - The Season Finale of Scrubs was in HDTV everywhere - except Tampa.

They are really asleep at the wheel and the fact that they could not see this problem over the past weekend is really scary. I am just happy I have a ton of other choices for NBC HD that I don't have to worry about their BS.

"...I am just happy I have a ton of other choices for NBC HD that I don't have to worry about their BS."
Sure, rub it in! :D

Saw it again tonight punching past a show that they were upconverting (America's Got Talent or some such BS). Amazing that I can spot it channel surfing and they cannot see it looking for it.

FWIW, I watched about 10 minutes of Law and Order and did not see it. Thus the several times I have seen it have all been during upconverted SD Network Programming - not true HD Programming. I have even looked for it when they go to the local upconverted commercial breaks, but have not seen it in that. Granted, I spend very little time on WFLA these days, but it appears to me to only be happening when they are upconverting the SD Network Feed.

Sure, rub it in! :D

The funniest thing is everytime I go to Weather Plus on 8.2 its always showing the Orlando 5 day forecast. I finally left it on for 10 minutes to see if it would ever show something local (it did). Why even bother with an Orlando Forecast. But then again, they are news and weather geniuses....so what do I know.

"The funniest thing is everytime I go to Weather Plus on 8.2 its always showing the Orlando 5 day forecast. "

So are the channel descriptions for 8-2 and 8-3 reversed on your set? When they moved the weather radar from 8-3 to 8-2 they forgot to change the channel info on their data stream. In addition, the description still says "weather radar" when it should say "Weather Plus", at least on my system/Directv HD tivo/off-air.

Just for fun I put WFLA on and the weather plus channel on in PIP and tried to find a correlation when I was watching the NHL finals. I found everytime they showed a commerial or had real person talking about the weather it would cause breakups on 8.1 on the bottom part of the image. I was not seeing the breakups when they were just showing empty radar maps. Their engineering told me it is not a multicasting bandwidth issue and that they had something like 16 mbs allocated to 8.1. Does anyone have a way to measure the bit rate at the point breakups in the picture occur so we can verify this? We also need to a measure the bit rate on any subchannels they are broadcasting. They used to have 2 subchannels...last time I checked there appeared to be nothing on the other subchannel, but they could be sending something we can't see on it.

"The funniest thing is everytime I go to Weather Plus on 8.2 its always showing the Orlando 5 day forecast. "

So are the channel descriptions for 8-2 and 8-3 reversed on your set? When they moved the weather radar from 8-3 to 8-2 they forgot to change the channel info on their data stream. In addition, the description still says "weather radar" when it should say "Weather Plus", at least on my system/Directv HD tivo/off-air.

I can only assume your set has some type of memory that has it left over from last January. It's clearly on 8-2 here. If you rescan it the channels, it will probably show up properly.

I do know that everytime they adjusted their ATSC stream layout (Simulcast of Houston TV station last Fall for Hurricane, removing subchannels for Olympics and putting up WeatherPlus after the Olympics) my TV and MyHD cards required me to delete out the WFLA info and rescan as they would not operate properly.

Perhaps yours has a tuner that was able to adjust on the fly - but it is on 8.2.

Now, if you want to say the WUSF is ILLEGAL by showing up as 34.3, 34.4, 34.5 and 34.6, instead of 16.x, I will agree with you there.

Considering that one station has already been fined in Tampa for doing that, I am somewhat surprised WUSF is so screwed up.

I can only assume your set has some type of memory that has it left over from last January. It's clearly on 8-2 here. If you rescan it the channels, it will probably show up properly.

INow, if you want to say the WUSF is ILLEGAL by showing up as 34.3, 34.4, 34.5 and 34.6, instead of 16.x, I will agree with you there.

Considering that one station has already been fined in Tampa for doing that, I am somewhat surprised WUSF is so screwed up.

WUSF-16 comes in on 16-1,2,3,4 on my guide, though the video signal is not present since my antenna is ghosting.
I have a "new" DirecTV HD-tivo that I installed a couple of weeks ago, and it has the same mixed up channel(8-2 and 8-3 are reversed) info. I get Weather Plus on 8-2, but the guide and channel banner identify 8-2 as "WFLADT2--Saturday Night Live" and SNL is on 8-3 while that banner/guide shows the "Weather radar" is on that channel.
I just did a rescan using the 90210 zip which brought up all the LA stations on the guide, and then another rescan with my tampa zip and got all the tampa channels back, but the guide is still reversed for 8-2 and 8-3.

Can anyone compare the Bright HD DVR that I have now with the one I would get if I switched to directv? i'm concerned about my ability to record PBS HD.

Can anyone compare the Bright HD DVR that I have now with the one I would get if I switched to directv? i'm concerned about my ability to record PBS HD.For some, unknown reason, D* doesn't offer a DVR for Mpeg-4 reception yet... A DVR was supposed to be available but D* must be having "technical" difficulties. :rolleyes:

So at this point, by default, your Brighthouse HD-DVR works MUCH better. :)

WUSF-16 comes in on 16-1,2,3,4 on my guide, though the video signal is not present since my antenna is ghosting.
I have a "new" DirecTV HD-tivo that I installed a couple of weeks ago, and it has the same mixed up channel(8-2 and 8-3 are reversed) info. I get Weather Plus on 8-2, but the guide and channel banner identify 8-2 as "WFLADT2--Saturday Night Live" and SNL is on 8-3 while that banner/guide shows the "Weather radar" is on that channel.
I just did a rescan using the 90210 zip which brought up all the LA stations on the guide, and then another rescan with my tampa zip and got all the tampa channels back, but the guide is still reversed for 8-2 and 8-3.


I am not talking about guides. If you are talking about Directv or something, that is a guide issue - not what is actually happening in the broadcast.

I am talking about actual over the air info in their datastream that OTA tuners use.

WFLA HD is at 8.1 and WFLA WX is at 8.2 as shown here in their OTA info stream.

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9922/wflaou0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

HDTVFanAtic, can you capture this same info when 8.1 has a breakup in the bottom part of the image? I recorded one with my DVR and was watching it in slow motion and I think I see one frame of with a solid bar black in the bottom quarter of the screen right before I see the image pixilated in that same area. I'm not sure if that is just a DVR problem or the actual problem with their picture. My DVR won’t let me truly step frame by frame. The area is in the location where a large weather crawl might go. If this is really happening than I think it could explain the breakups. Thanks.

I have called BrightHouse and requested the NFL channel, but they continuously say that is is a DirectTV channel only. How can this be?While I won't say it's a lie, the person you spoke to is certainly misinformed. Brighthouse is currently in negotiations, and I encourage everyone to call if they want to help "persuade" them to secure the NFL network in time for the Thursday and Saturday games... It would also be nice if they provided it in HD.

Here is a related news item (http://www.tbo.com/sports/MGB7KF306QE.html).

And here is the Bright House number to contact: (813) 684-6400

It would be good for anyone to report any news or feedback on this here. I went through this with the Superbowl and Time Warner in South Carolina - they pulled through just two days before the game.

If calling is a pain for you, then you can e-mail a short note to tampabay.hilcustsrv@mybrighthouse.com with your request. I do this weekly. Just be sure to include your account number or phone number.

While I won't say it's a lie, the person you spoke to is certainly misinformed. Brighthouse is currently in negotiations, and I encourage everyone to call if they want to help "persuade" them to secure the NFL network in time for the Thursday and Saturday games... It would also be nice if they provided it in HD.

Here is a related news item (http://www.tbo.com/sports/MGB7KF306QE.html).

And here is the Bright House number to contact: (813) 684-6400

It would be good for anyone to report any news or feedback on this here. I went through this with the Superbowl and Time Warner in South Carolina - they pulled through just two days before the game.Thanks for the reply!

I called the number you list above and connected to Brighthouse Networks. Their telephone answering system seems to be designed to force you to hang up without talking to a human. Fortunately, pressing "0" does connect you directly you a Sales Representative.

I told the Sales Representative (SR) that I was interested in the NFL channel and wondered if Brighthouse was going to get it before the football season starts. The SR said that Brighthouse did not currently have the rights to the NFL channel, but that they were negotiating between them and the Direct TV. She said they were "trying our best." She seemed to indicate that Brighthouse was negotiating against Direct TV. I'm not sure what she meant by that.

I asked her if she knew that Verizon's FIOS was to contain the NFL channel and she said yes, she did. She just reiterated that they were in negotiations with the NFL channel, but it hadn't happened yet. I asked her if she knew when Verizon was going to start servicing St. Petersburg and she didn't.

I suspect that a number of CSRs in their own little world have confused ST with NFL Network. Directv has the exclusive rights to ST and they pay through the nose for it. As can be seen in many threads, people continue to put up with D* and its inferior quality just to get ST.

As for the NFL Network, they want it included at no charge in their basic tier (like ESPN) and that means that BHN either increases local rates or eats the difference. BHN would gladly put it on and let anyone sub that wanted, but the NFL won't let them - as they know how low the subscription rate will be - especially in April.

Considering the strong arm tactics of ESPN and some others, I actually agree with BHN in this instance. The line has to be drawn somewhere.

Personally, I wish ala carte would get pushed through Congress and then all of this would end. Of course, the cost of the ESPN package would probably end up being about $35 a month per sub that wanted it, but that's life.

As anyone else heard the commercial on WDAE that says something like, don't let Brighthouse ruin your football season because they don't have the NFL network? I did not catch the number they said to call, but I like the commercial.

Edit: http://www.sptimes.com/2006/08/04/Bucs/NFL_ratchets_up_battl.shtml

NFL ratchets up battle with cable
By SHARON GINN, Times Staff Writer
Published August 4, 2006

A few months ago, the NFL Network was advising football fans to call their cable company. Now? The network is spending $100-million on advertising to more forcefully make its case.

Ads began appearing across the nation this week as the NFL Network launched an attack on cable companies - most notably Time Warner and one of its subsidiaries, Bright House - that do not offer the 3-year-old network to subscribers. Bright House is the dominant provider of programming in the Tampa Bay area, serving more than 1-million customers.

Local newspaper ads feature a closeup of Jon Gruden delivering one of his trademark penetrating stares (a somewhat misleading tactic because the Bucs are not among the teams scheduled for the eight live games that will air this season on the network). The copy reads: "Don't let Brighthouse ruin your football season. You'll miss NFL games. Call and demand NFL Network now."

Will "demanding" help? Hard to say, as it appears the parties are at an impasse, one that may last beyond Thanksgiving, when the first live game airs.

The negotiations are undoubtedly complex, but the main sticking point appears to be that Time Warner will sign a deal only if it can offset the cost of carrying the network by making it part of its "sports tier," a premium package that costs subscribers an additional monthly fee. The NFL Network, spokesman Seth Palansky said, would not accept such an agreement for Time Warner and does not have one with any of more than 100 cable or phone companies that do carry it. It wants to be made available to basic cable subscribers, period.

"We don't feel cable bills should go up any more or these fans should be burdened with these additional costs because they're passionate about football," he said.

Bright House is stuck in the middle, as parent Time Warner negotiates on its behalf for new programming. Striking its own deal with the NFL Network is not an option, Bright House spokesman Joe Durkin said.

"I strongly believe we're putting forth the best effort we can for those who are strongly interested in it," Durkin said. "I can't stress enough, our customers are not going to miss a single Bucs (game) or the NFL playoffs or the Super Bowl."

Time Warner has launched a Web site, www.NFLgetreal.com, as a way to make its case directly to its subscribers.

Meantime, Palansky noted that Wednesday, Time Warner reported profits of $1-billion for the second quarter. So it's not as if the company is hurting, Palansky said.

He also said that in exchange for paying the fees to the NFL Network, Bright House and Time Warner will have the opportunity to sell ads that will generate revenue for the cable companies, including ad time during the eight live NFL games.

The NFL Network won a small victory Thursday when the Federal Communications Commission ruled that Time Warner needed to reinstate the NFL Network at least for several weeks on Adelphia systems that it took control of Monday as part of a long-planned acquisition. (Adelphia customers in Citrus County were not affected because their service was turned over to Comcast, which carries the NFL Network.)

Meantime it's hard to picture - at least in the short term - a victory for the viewer. Not everyone wants to attach a satellite dish to his home or has access to smaller companies such as Verizon that carry the network. And how many would be willing to make the effort to switch is in question. Durkin said thus far "not a significant number" of Bright House subscribers have called to complain.

Palansky thinks that will change once more subscribers become aware of what they are missing. At 200-million strong last year, the NFL viewership, he said, "is certainly not a niche audience."

NFL ratchets up battle with cable
By SHARON GINN, Times Staff Writer
Published August 4, 2006
Who really cares?

Sounds a lot to me like the Romans arguing over the price of admission to a chariot race or lion feeding...

The only real way to "win this battle" would be to stop whining so pathetically about watching football and instead buy stock in both of these gigantically profitable mega-corporations. Now THAT might provide the common-man with a win-win situation. Perhaps even the only way to win? Unless the bottom falls out of the market...

When NFL Inc. and Time-Warner Inc. enterred into "battle" with each other, it 's basically more of a game of tug-of-war than a battle. Which monster corporation is going to prevail and tug YOUR money out of your pockets. The NFL? Or, Time-Warner?

The fact is <gasp> that I personally wouldn't cry too much if Pro Football went away entirely. I'm sure that I could find something else to entertain myself? I do have to admit though, as a stockholder only in the Comcast (another monster corporation), I am more generally just apathetic about the whole rhubarb. Hmmmm, maybe I should sell "all" my shares of Comcast! Now that would really send them a message... Sell all one hundred of them! :p

The funniest part of this "battle" is the way both sides are appealing to the sheep (that would be us) to intervene on their behalves. But, what to do, what to do? Should I support the greedy football league or the greedy cable company? Now, that's the real question! :D

I apologize in advance to all of those poor, misguided folks who are addicted to watching a bunch of millionaires playing a contest to see who can make the most money. Why not just watch professional wrestling instead? :eek:

Why not just watch professional wrestling instead?

There are no odds posted for it.

The are no odds posted for it.Oh you're exactly right!

No over-under on The Bone Crusher vs. The Hooded Executioner...

What's the line on Time-Warner vs. The NFL? :)

I need to check the sport's book in Vegas.

Did anyone notice that WFLA did NOT have picture breakups on Sunday?

Did anyone notice that WFLA did NOT have picture breakups on Sunday?

It looks like they fixed one problem (blockyness at lower portion of screen) which is all good. However during the NFL Hall of Fame game a new blurryness problem started. It seems to be a local problem (bluryness) and happening to many
stations...So the first NFL game looked like crap. Hopefully they fix this new problem! Eric

Was doing a channel scan on my HD DirecTivo this afternoon and this new subchannel popped up.

Hopefully won't take too much bandwidth from 10.1, especially w/ football coming up.

Or...has this been there for some time and I missed it?

I saw this blurriness also on the football game Sunday. I don't think we can blame WFLA for this problem, as I also saw it on a satellite feed of a different NBC affiliate.

It looks like they fixed one problem (blockyness at lower portion of screen) which is all good. However during the NFL Hall of Fame game a new blurryness problem started. It seems to be a local problem (bluryness) and happening to many
stations...So the first NFL game looked like crap. Hopefully they fix this new problem! Eric

I saw this blurriness also on the football game Sunday. I don't think we can blame WFLA for this problem, as I also saw it on a satellite feed of a different NBC affiliate.

From what I read on this forum the problem is local however many stations around the country were all having the same problem. Some were not. I think this is good news in the long run. The other problem we had on WFLA before (blockyness not bluryness) seemed to be happening to only WFLA. I will be very pleasently surprised if the picture quality for friday's BUCS game is good. I can't remember the last time the PQ on that HD station was good. Eric

I just saw this while doing a scan yesterday as well. It's another 24/7 wx channel a la WFLA Weather Plus without the national content.

From what I've seen, they are devoting ~5mb to 10.2 which seems like an awful lot for a channel like this. I imagine that will have a big impact on 10.1's PQ.


Was doing a channel scan on my HD DirecTivo this afternoon and this new subchannel popped up.

Hopefully won't take too much bandwidth from 10.1, especially w/ football coming up.

Or...has this been there for some time and I missed it?

Say goodbye to any type of quality HD on Channel 10

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/473/wtsp10tl6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Yikes! That's not good at all.

Thx for the info.

Say goodbye to any type of quality HD on Channel 10

Hey, I've been lurking around the HDTV part of AVS Forum and decided to join because I have a question. I live near Brooksville, FL (ZIP code 34607) and was wondering what my options for HD are.
Currently we're getting our HD through BHN, fed to the 54" in the living room, but I was looking at a MyHD MDP130 and was wondering
1. What BHN broadcasts as QAM here, if anything, and
2. If its even remotely possible for me to tune Tampa stations here OTA.
Antennaweb says that CBS is only 24 miles away at 200 degrees, all the other Tampa/St. Pete stations are 50-55 miles away at 160 degrees. Could somebody help a n00b out?
Oh, and what are my options as far as those larger dishes? (don't know exactly what they're called, just not D*/Dish)

Very sad.....the lowest bitrate I've seen for CBS HD anywhere in America.


http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/3894/wtsp10hdob6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


I feel very sorry for those in Tampa that have to put up with this. I have other options, but others aren't nearly as lucky.

And with WTSP doing this, what do you want to bet the others will quickly kill more bitrate and jump in this game :(

Hey, I've been lurking around the HDTV part of AVS Forum and decided to join because I have a question. I live near Brooksville, FL (ZIP code 34607) and was wondering what my options for HD are.
Currently we're getting our HD through BHN, fed to the 54" in the living room, but I was looking at a MyHD MDP130 and was wondering
1. What BHN broadcasts as QAM here, if anything, and
2. If its even remotely possible for me to tune Tampa stations here OTA.
Antennaweb says that CBS is only 24 miles away at 200 degrees, all the other Tampa/St. Pete stations are 50-55 miles away at 160 degrees. Could somebody help a n00b out?
Oh, and what are my options as far as those larger dishes? (don't know exactly what they're called, just not D*/Dish)

BHN broadcasts all digital channels on QAM. The OTA channels are the only HD QAM channels not encrypted.

Sure you can tune in the stations OTA - WTSP is easy for you - but given what they are doing now, why bother? A high enough/powerful enough antenna will certainly get the Riverview signals.

Very sad.....the lowest bitrate I've seen for CBS HD anywhere in America. I feel very sorry for those in Tampa that have to put up with this. I have other options, but others aren't nearly as lucky. And with WTSP doing this, what do you want to bet the others will quickly kill more bitrate and jump in this game :(
That does it... I am moving somewhere else. ;) What locality has the highest bitrates?

Bitrate killers!

BHN broadcasts all digital channels on QAM. The OTA channels are the only HD QAM channels not encrypted.

Sure you can tune in the stations OTA - WTSP is easy for you - but given what they are doing now, why bother? A high enough/powerful enough antenna will certainly get the Riverview signals.
Wow, thanks for the quick reply :cool: A high/powerful antenna might be a bit of a problem (still living at home, in high school), will any form of indoor antenna get a reasonable signal for the stations transmitting from Riverview?

BHN also broadcasts their digital channels on QAM (G4, Nicktoons TV, etc.)? Sweet, I think that alone might have me going the QAM option. AFAIK, if I want decent QAM on a Windows PC, the MyHD MDP130 is my only option, correct?

Since my OTA is poor where I live --- getting local HD is obviously a big deal to me. Does DISH offer the Tampa locals in HD and if not is there any scuttlebutt about when they might start offering them? I understand that E* (along with D*) is using Mpeg4 now... Where can I go to find out info on all things E*? By any chance is there a forum devoted to them here on AVS?

Does anyone use the DISH HD-DVR (622)? Opinions?

Wow, thanks for the quick reply :cool: A high/powerful antenna might be a bit of a problem (still living at home, in high school), will any form of indoor antenna get a reasonable signal for the stations transmitting from Riverview?

I would be shocked if you got anything from Riverview 60 miles away with an indoor antenna. I have enough trouble with Riverview with an external from the Northern Beaches.


BHN also broadcasts their digital channels on QAM (G4, Nicktoons TV, etc.)?

The Digital QAM channels (100+) are encrypted.


AFAIK, if I want decent QAM on a Windows PC, the MyHD MDP130 is my only option, correct?

Checkout www.digitalconnection.com and www.copperbox.com

There are several from MyHD, Fusion and others.

Since my OTA is poor where I live --- getting local HD is obviously a big deal to me. Does DISH offer the Tampa locals in HD and if not is there any scuttlebutt about when they might start offering them?



E* doesn't have the Tampa HD-LIL and after what they did to HDNET today, I can't recommend them either :(

Dish is using a crippled bird at 129W that was originally supposed to be at 110W, thus the lobe that should cover Florida is somewhere probably over Texas. That is why Dish cannot use their 1 Dish solution to get 110/119/129 as 129 has multiple problems all over - and even worse in Florida.

That means that they would need to put the Tampa HD Locals on 110W or 119W, like this do for the Miami HD Locals. However, 110W and 119W are their 2 main birds and they have no room for it there. They had room for 1 market and obviously made the decision to go with Miami - I suspect because Miami was not one of the first D* HD-LIL and Tampa was.

Thus, no Tampa HD-LIL for sometime from E*.

The Digital QAM channels (100+) are encrypted.

Checkout digitalconnection and copperbox

There are several from MyHD, Fusion and others.
Oh, I get it, so the local HDs are the only unencrypted QAM channels BHN broadcasts. I read that the DVICO software for the Fusion was lacking compared to the MyHD, and it doesn't do hardware decoding, although my computer could easily handle software MPEG2 decoding (Athlon 64 X2 4200+, 2 GB RAM) and I've got PureVideo installed with my 7800GT too. Initially, I wanted to get Avermedia's card, then I found out I could only use it with QAM under Myth TV.

Well, Channel 8 proves how the suck again.

Blue Screen on 8.1 with their logo only for long periods of time at the beginning of the game and then loosing audio for 10-30 seconds at a time on the 8.1.

Between WTSP and WFLA, No one would ever believe this is a Top 12 television market :(

They seem to finally have it all together, both HD video and 2 channel stereo, although there's occasional audio pops.

A lot of satellites. Snip>


Sorry for a late reply but lately I've been interested and reading about satellite and fta stuff.

How exactly are you able to access 7 other markets in HD in real time besides A lot of satellites?

Is it through ku band or c band? Is it fta or subscription to something or do you just have special privileges?

Also what would I need to get PBS HD from satellite what size dish and stuff, I see it is on AMC3 and on the ku band right? Because AMC3 is a hybrid satellite from what I read so I'm not completely sure if which one it's on. I also read that it is much better quality than what wedu puts out and has dd5.1.

I have the locals package (what a ripoff) from Dish. As you may know, from a few posts up, Dish doesn't offer the Tampa locals in HD. However, would I still be able to watch programs in HD if I see the "In HD where available" logo through those channels? Or would those programs still be in SD? I just don't understand the difference between getting HD channels and watching content in HD through regular channels. If anybody could clear that up for me I'll appreciate it.

Also here is a hint ( a lot of you may know this already, but just in case), if you are a current customer and you want the same HD DVR deal that the new customers are getting specifically ask for the retention deparment and tell them "how you are thinking about switching to DT for their Sunday Ticket." It works like a charm for me all the time, this will work with anything, cellphone,cable, etc.

I have the locals package (what a ripoff) from Dish. As you may know, from a few posts up, Dish doesn't offer the Tampa locals in HD. However, would I still be able to watch programs in HD if I see the "In HD where available" logo through those channels? Or would those programs still be in SD? I just don't understand the difference between getting HD channels and watching content in HD through regular channels. If anybody could clear that up for me I'll appreciate it.

Also here is a hint ( a lot of you may know this already, but just in case), if you are a current customer and you want the same HD DVR deal that the new customers are getting specifically ask for the retention deparment and tell them "how you are thinking about switching to DT for their Sunday Ticket." It works like a charm for me all the time, this will work with anything, cellphone,cable, etc.If you have DISH Network, then the phrase "In HD where available" equates to "You are out of luck if you want to watch local programs in HD."

Apparently DISH simply doesn't have the bandwidth to provide local channels in HD --- even though they are using Mpeg4 compression. Nor have I been able to find even a hint of when DISH might offer HD local programming in the future.

If you currently want to watch the Tampa locals in HD --- I believe your choices are limited to:

a.) D*
b.) cable companies (if you have one) servicing your location
c.) O.T.A. (over-the-air)

Verizon FIOS (fiber optic) is beginning to be rolled out in a few areas around here, but I don't know what HD programming's available on over FIOS.

If by "regular channels" you mean the old channels broadcasting SD content, HDTV transmissions can not be viewed over "regular channels". Simple as that...

As you might have guessed from HDTVFanatic's observations, the network HD transmissions available from Tampa local affiliates leaves a lot to be desired. Or maybe I should've said it leaves everything to be deisred. :)

HD television is veritably in its infancy it would seem. So, receiving HDTV is a matter of being on the bleeding (hemorrhaging) edge. When it works it is a thing of beauty. When it (often) doesn't work it is totally frustrating. Or, as is in your case, when you can't receive HD at all... Frustrating might not fully describe the HDTV experience?

Thank you for the reply. My dreams of watching the Buccs on HD from home have been chattered. Argh! I live in a deed restricted community in New Tampa so putting an OTA is out of the question, especially since I already have 2 satellites. I rushed to get the Panny last week so I could watch all the HD football games and now I'm s.o.l. I just hope the next Panny model is not a 1080p after I just got the 1080i for no reason. :mad:

My dreams of watching the Buccs on HD from home have been chattered. Argh! I live in a deed restricted community in New Tampa so putting an OTA is out of the question, especially since I already have 2 satellites. :

Not necessarily. You didn't mention which receiver you have, but if you have an HD OTA receiver, which might be in your Dish receiver, you might do okay with an indoor antenna, being in New Tampa. Or else, you could put up a small outdoor antenna. Deed restrictions can't prevent you from doing so, particularly if you got by with the 2 satellite dishes.

Hey Ron, I have the ViP622 DVR which does allow for an indoor antenna hook up. I bought an amplified I/OTA from Radio Shack but I still can't find Fox HD anywhere, and for CBS all I get is that weather channel for a few seconds before it fades out. The HOA only allows one antenna but since the cable here is garbage (is a ctv company owned by the developer) they are allowing ppl to have two for now. I think I'm just going to request a waiver so I can have that national CBS HD network at least. I wish the games were on WEDU 'cause I get like 5 of their digital channels.

Thank you for the reply. My dreams of watching the Buccs on HD from home have been chattered. Argh! I live in a deed restricted community in New Tampa so putting an OTA is out of the question, especially since I already have 2 satellites. I rushed to get the Panny last week so I could watch all the HD football games and now I'm s.o.l. I just hope the next Panny model is not a 1080p after I just got the 1080i for no reason. :mad:

I thought no HOA could not restrict antennas and satellite dishes for some legal reason.

How exactly are you able to access 7 other markets in HD in real time besides A lot of satellites?


For the right price, anything is possible. It's very easy to subscribe to services in other markets that might be available wherever you are.


Also what would I need to get PBS HD from satellite what size dish and stuff, I see it is on AMC3 and on the ku band right? Because AMC3 is a hybrid satellite from what I read so I'm not completely sure if which one it's on. I also read that it is much better quality than what wedu puts out and has dd5.1.

For $100 you could get a Ku STB, $20 for a Ku LNB and $80 for a 30-36 inch dish and you are done.

I have the locals package (what a ripoff) from Dish. As you may know, from a few posts up, Dish doesn't offer the Tampa locals in HD. However, would I still be able to watch programs in HD if I see the "In HD where available" logo through those channels? Or would those programs still be in SD? I just don't understand the difference between getting HD channels and watching content in HD through regular channels. If anybody could clear that up for me I'll appreciate it.

Where available means where available. It's not locally to local E* subscribers, thus its not available to you via E*.



If you currently want to watch the Tampa locals in HD --- I believe your choices are limited to:

a.) D*
b.) cable companies (if you have one) servicing your location
c.) O.T.A. (over-the-air)


d.) "Move" to a service location that has HD-LIL. Miami, Atlanta, Nashville, DC are all good choices :)


Verizon FIOS (fiber optic) is beginning to be rolled out in a few areas around here, but I don't know what HD programming's available on over FIOS.



It has virtually everything.

I thought no HOA could not restrict antennas and satellite dishes for some legal reason.

Correct, you can put in as many 1 Meter (39 inches) or less Dishes as you need and they can't say squat after the FCC ruling several years ago. I'm deed restricted and most think I probably work for NASA or the CIA.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/4024/dsc00057gj7.png (http://imageshack.us)

They also lifted the restriction on TV Antennas as I recall, but I do not know if there was a limit to size - iirc there wasn't. I would think in New Tampa you should have a clear shot down to Riverview and you really wouldn't need that great of an antenna - possibly one of the ones that go over the curve of the Dish?

Height obviously is the greatest asset to making it work.

I suspect that the top of condos on Bayshore (or even on Clearwater Beach) will probably pickup Orlando and Ft. Myers with a simple indoor antenna.

Thank you,

This: http://www.cyberestore.com/inch76cm-winegard-ds2076-offset-dish-p-97.html

This: http://www.cyberestore.com/dvbworld-digital-satellite-receiver-p-163.html

and this: http://www.cyberestore.com/xtreme-noise-figure-standard-lnbf-p-169.html

would be good enough right?

Also what just came to mind, are the bitrates just as bad on the local stations qam channels on brighthouse compared to ota? Do the multicast channels still effect it the same on cable as it does ota?

Thanks

Thank you,

This: http://www.cyberestore.com/inch76cm-winegard-ds2076-offset-dish-p-97.html

This: http://www.cyberestore.com/dvbworld-digital-satellite-receiver-p-163.html

and this: http://www.cyberestore.com/xtreme-noise-figure-standard-lnbf-p-169.html

would be good enough right?

Also what just came to mind, are the bitrates just as bad on the local stations qam channels on brighthouse compared to ota? Do the multicast channels still effect it the same on cable as it does ota?

Thanks

The USB World Unit will allow you to record the HD Programming on your computer as well. Obviously you also need someway to play it back on your TV as that unit just feeds the computer.

The LNB is good as well.

I have been told all you need is a 30 inch dish but I obviously would feel more comfortable with a .9 - 1.0 Meter (36-39 inch) dish in Florida - unless you really don't care about rain fade - but honestly, that might be overkill. If you could find a local supplier, they might be able to give you better details. You might also want to check with Mark Wilson at Vidsat in Odessa(off 41 on the Pasco/Pinellas line). He usually has used stuff sitting around as well.

As for Brighthouse, they do lower the quality from OTA as well as can be seen if you compare OTA and Brighthouse.

Well I plan to make it go through the pc and then output to the tv through dvi. I don't even have a tv right now but I am planning on getting the SCEPTRE X37SV soon which I will use as a pc monitor/tv.

I'm really just doing this for fun and I don't care if I only get one good channel and get rainfade (I know PBS HD sometimes has interesting stuff). I just think it would be something cool to do and would be good experience.

The thing I read bad about the pc receivers is they don't have blind scan which would make it harder? Although I would like to timeshift and record which an stb can't do.

What I worry though is I have big trees around my house and I don't know if any may be blocking the parts of the sky I don't want them to be blocking.

Looking at the lyngsat site it looks like there are alot of things but all those numbers confuse me alittle but simplyfying it all I have to pay attention to is the freq is in the 12000 ku area and that things are not encrypted and I will be able to watch it, am I right? Will not having blind scan make it harder to find things?

Sorry if my post is confusing to read but it's late.

Edit: Oh and am I able to watch the things that are grey and say (feeds) on the lyngsat site?

Hey Ron, I have the ViP622 DVR which does allow for an indoor antenna hook up. I bought an amplified I/OTA from Radio Shack but I still can't find Fox HD anywhere, and for CBS all I get is that weather channel for a few seconds before it fades out. The HOA only allows one antenna but since the cable here is garbage (is a ctv company owned by the developer) they are allowing ppl to have two for now. I think I'm just going to request a waiver so I can have that national CBS HD network at least. I wish the games were on WEDU 'cause I get like 5 of their digital channels.

I have never had success with the Radio Shack internal antennas. I do use the external one as can be seen above.

How about something like this if your dish is high enough...

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/305/atscdirectvyr3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I have had a TON of issues with my FIOS TV account - mainly stupid administrative problems - not the actual service.

But get this one - today I called up to add a TV box. Pretty simple thing right?

Nope.

I received what I suspect is a load of crap. According to them - they cannot process my request or provide me with a box for "2 weeks" because of some "fix" they have to do to their system. There is no physical location to pick up a box.

The mysterious problem (which could not be described to me) prevents them from accessing my account. The supervisor CLAIMED that no one in my area could get a box or TV service until this is resolved.

Quite frankly, I'm getting real tired of this company. But, they've got me. I want their service because of the nfl network, espn2 hd and espn u. Plus, the far superior SD picture on my HDTV.

If BHN could get their stuff together - they could easily win the war with Verizon - at least as far as I'm concerned.

I have had a TON of issues with my FIOS TV account - mainly stupid administrative problems - not the actual service.
I don't find this the least bit surprising... Seems to me that this is SOP for the industry (both cable & satellite).

What area are you located in? Here in Sarasota, Verizon "started" offering FIOS in certain areas (northern part of the county) about a year ago. Not sure if (or when) they will get around to running fiber in my area, which is about 8 miles farther south.

Seems to me that the craziest thing about your situation is you aren't requesting them to do something for free... instead, you are ready to pay them more money for a 2nd box, right? Seems like they would be anxious & eager to send you a second box. Maybe it's some kind of weird conspiracy? :)

It definitely sounds as though Verizon has an especially poor "system" if they can't access the records for any customers in your area and moreover won't be able to do so for a matter of weeks (not hours or days). I guess you should really hope that nothing happens to your actual service during this time?

How good is their HD service, say as compared to cable or sat? Do they offer local networks in HD?

One last question: Just how far superior would you say the SD picture is on your HD set? I hadn't even thought of improved SD, just figured it is low-q.

Thanks. :D

I should clarify - the stupid administrative problems have caused interruptions in my service. But, the actual service itself has been great. I'm in Westchase.

Like I said - I think they gave me a line of b.s. I am, of course, ready and willing to pay for the box.

Fios is clearly better than bhn pq wise. SD is substantially better. It is like watching the locals on the HD channels when they are not broadcasting in HD. (i.e watching an sd broadcast of cbs on its hd channel looks much better than watching the same broadcast on the regular channel). Also, if you listen to the music channels they are really cd quality on fios - unlike bhn (same channels).

The locals are all in HD plus there are a couple additional HD channels: wealth, nfl network, national geographic, espn2. You lose some channels but nothing I cared about.

So, for me Fios is clearly superior if they could just get their act together.

I have had a TON of issues with my FIOS TV account - mainly stupid administrative problems - not the actual service.


You can probably count on their billing system not having any "stupid administrative problems". Certainly, they'll want their money.

Right now Verizon is ripping up our neighborhood, digging three 4-5 foot holes trenches, in the heat of the day, on our front lawns so that they can run their cable. Then they do this horrible job of attempting to put the ripped up sod back. It's been 2 weeks since they came past my house. I don't expect us to have their service available for at least until some time in 2007. With all the money they've invested in running their fiber, it will be a long, long time until they will see a positive return on their investment. Technofobe doesn't live that far from me.

Technofobe doesn't live that far from me.
Just ran outside to check...

Nope, no holes yet. :D

Technofobe and Ron,

I'm down a bit south of Clark Road in Gulf Gate. Where are you guys?

Technofobe and Ron,

I'm down a bit south of Clark Road in Gulf Gate. Where are you guys?I'm near Lockwood Ridge & Ashton.

Technofobe and Ron,

I'm down a bit south of Clark Road in Gulf Gate. Where are you guys?

And I'm in Turtle Rock.

So, for me Fios is clearly superior if they could just get their act together.

Hi Max,

Sorry to hear that you're having administrative difficulties.

Like the other Sarasota folks, I've being anxiously awaiting to hear about the roll-out of the new Verizon FIOS network.

Hopefully your difficulties are merely the result of initial growing pains associated with establishing a new service offering, and not something more fundamental, like rampant technical incompetence.

Before moving to Florida, we had Cox cable in Virginia. The quality of their services was incredibly bad. I remember, prior to switching to DirecTV, we had 13 visits from their technical folks in one month in futile attempts to correct the problem.

Then just before moving to Florida, I was trying to figure out whether to go with Comcast, our local cable provider, or stay with DirecTV. After repeatedly and unsuccessfully trying to get a straight answer from Comcast "technical" experts regarding HDTV video connection compatibility, I figured their inability to answer my question was actually telling me volumes about the quality of service I was likely to receive.

I know that what you're going through is terribly frustrating, but the good news seems to be that you have an inherently technically superior system.

Please let us know how things progress.

Larry

I have a few questions for the members here who live in Sarasota. This weekend I will be seeing my father in law who lives in Sarasota and helping him hook up a 37" Plasma with both HDMI and component inputs. He has Comcast cable and I asked him to return the digital box and get the HDTV DVR box. Where I live in SFLA Comcast has the Motorola DCT6412 dual tuner box.

This may sound familiar to many here about my experiences with local installers from Comast. I swear out ,of 5 friends and neighbors who have HDTVs and had Comcast install the boxes, each was done wrong! Each TV I saw had the person who was not too keen on hook ups proudly show me their new TV and their HDTV picture. Each time I looked hard and said that they are not watching HDTV!

Each TV was hooked up with composite inputs, even though they used their 5 jack component cable!

Whar I would like to know is what cable box does Comcast use in Sarasota?

Does the box use DVI or HDMI and is it activated?

Anyone have experience whether they found the picture better with component vs DVI/HDMI? Many people prefer the component picture.

I tried to talk to Comcast about this, but you know what happens when you ask questions .

My inlaws live East of 75. Is Verizon readily availabe? One person I know who has FIOS in the Dallas area was shocked at how good his picture was.

Thanks
PKinSFLA

My inlaws live East of 75. Is Verizon readily availabe?

Hi,

Based on this news release, I doubt that FIOS will be available to your inlaws anytime soon.

Verizon Begins Offering TV Service, Provider Choice to Florida's Sarasota County Residents (http://newscenter.verizon.com/proactive/documents/printerfriendly-shared/printerfriendly?docid=93655&PROACTIVE_ID=cecdc6c8c6c7c9cfcbc5cecfcfcfc5cecdcec7cbcbcacac 6c9c5cf)

Larry

I have a few questions for the members here who live in Sarasota. This weekend I will be seeing my father in law who lives in Sarasota and helping him hook up a 37" Plasma with both HDMI and component inputs. He has Comcast cable and I asked him to return the digital box and get the HDTV DVR box. Where I live in SFLA Comcast has the Motorola DCT6412 dual tuner box.

This may sound familiar to many here about my experiences with local installers from Comast. I swear out ,of 5 friends and neighbors who have HDTVs and had Comcast install the boxes, each was done wrong! Each TV I saw had the person who was not too keen on hook ups proudly show me their new TV and their HDTV picture. Each time I looked hard and said that they are not watching HDTV!

Each TV was hooked up with composite inputs, even though they used their 5 jack component cable!

Whar I would like to know is what cable box does Comcast use in Sarasota?

Does the box use DVI or HDMI and is it activated?

Anyone have experience whether they found the picture better with component vs DVI/HDMI? Many people prefer the component picture.

I tried to talk to Comcast about this, but you know what happens when you ask questions .

My inlaws live East of 75. Is Verizon readily availabe? One person I know who has FIOS in the Dallas area was shocked at how good his picture was.

Thanks
PKinSFLA

I have asked in this thread and in the Ft. Myers/Naples thread and it appears that Comcast on the West Coast of Florida is a S/A shop - not a Motorola system.

Are you saying that Comcast in SouthFlorida is Motorola? I was curious about that because of the West Coast Equipment being S/A.

As for FIOS, is your inlaw in unincorporated area of the County or in a city? Supposedly they had a franchise permit set up in the unincorporated areas of the County, though I do not recall which of the 2 counties that was approved for.

Comcast in the Ft Lauderdale area uses the Motorola box. They are up to series 4 on the boxes which still give crappy analog signals in the lowere channels. I have a 100 inch screen with a front projector and the lower channels are unwatchable. DVI was also never activated for a long time. There still are DVI issues . The Motorala boxes ran very hot and may explain why they went through a lot of them. My main DVR box works perfectly while I ewent through 4 boxes on the other set. Those boxes would run hot and then freeze where you could not inlock them.

My father in law says that Bradenton is being wired for FIOS. His part of Sarasota is not up yet.

Key thing for me is what does the SA box have, DVI or HDIM and does it work?

PKinSFLA

Comcast in the Ft Lauderdale area uses the Motorola box. They are up to series 4 on the boxes which still give crappy analog signals in the lowere channels. I have a 100 inch screen with a front projector and the lower channels are unwatchable. DVI was also never activated for a long time. There still are DVI issues . The Motorala boxes ran very hot and may explain why they went through a lot of them. My main DVR box works perfectly while I ewent through 4 boxes on the other set. Those boxes would run hot and then freeze where you could not inlock them.

My father in law says that Bradenton is being wired for FIOS. His part of Sarasota is not up yet.

Key thing for me is what does the SA box have, DVI or HDIM and does it work?

PKinSFLA

Comcast in Sarasota uses SA boxes & DVR's. I think they have HDMI outputs but I've only had Comcast basic in the past year so I'm not positive on that.

Comcast in the Ft Lauderdale area uses the Motorola box. They are up to series 4 on the boxes which still give crappy analog signals in the lowere channels. I have a 100 inch screen with a front projector and the lower channels are unwatchable. DVI was also never activated for a long time. There still are DVI issues . The Motorala boxes ran very hot and may explain why they went through a lot of them. My main DVR box works perfectly while I ewent through 4 boxes on the other set. Those boxes would run hot and then freeze where you could not inlock them.

My father in law says that Bradenton is being wired for FIOS. His part of Sarasota is not up yet.

Key thing for me is what does the SA box have, DVI or HDIM and does it work?

PKinSFLA

DVR or not?

I saw someone on eBay in Manatee County trying to sell a SA8300HD DVR so I assume the idiot was with Comcast, meaning that they have HDMI on that box.

Odds are the non-DVR for HD is DVI output.

Does the box use DVI or HDMI and is it activated?

Anyone have experience whether they found the picture better with component vs DVI/HDMI? Many people prefer the component picture.

Thanks
PKinSFLA

I have both the SA 8300 HD and the 3250 HD in Sarasota from Comcast and they both have HDMI activated. HDMI is a little better, but slower to change channels than component.

Does the new DirecTV 5 LNB dish deal with rain fade any better than the others?

I live in Palm Harbor. The DirecTV installer is at my house and my wife just called and put him on the line. He told me that since they're releasing their new DVR in 4-6 weeks they're trying to get rid of the stock of OTA antennas they have, and that I would only be able to pick up 1, *maybe* 2 HD channels (FOX and UPN or something) with the antenna, so he suggested I not bother with the OTA antenna and just upgrade to the new receiver when it's released.

I looked on antennaweb and there are stations in Tampa about 33 miles away that are broadcasting PBS, ABC, UPN, WB, NBC and TFA. Was the installer just full of it so he didn't have to install the OTA antenna?

Anyone live anywhere close to Palm Harbor that can give me an idea what stations they can pick up using what types of antennas?

My wife described the antenna he had and said it resembled a grill grate.

I live in Palm Harbor. The DirecTV installer is at my house and my wife just called and put him on the line. He told me that since they're releasing their new DVR in 4-6 weeks they're trying to get rid of the stock of OTA antennas they have, and that I would only be able to pick up 1, *maybe* 2 HD channels (FOX and UPN or something) with the antenna, so he suggested I not bother with the OTA antenna and just upgrade to the new receiver when it's released.

I looked on antennaweb and there are stations in Tampa about 33 miles away that are broadcasting PBS, ABC, UPN, WB, NBC and TFA. Was the installer just full of it so he didn't have to install the OTA antenna?

Anyone live anywhere close to Palm Harbor that can give me an idea what stations they can pick up using what types of antennas?

My wife described the antenna he had and said it resembled a grill grate.

Cannot tell you anything about the Directv antenna, but I assure you if you could only pick up 2 stations, it wouldnt be Fox and UPN44.

All the VHF stations are challenging from Riverview, but CBS 10 (currently on 24 but moving back to 10) should be no problem for you. Forget NBC 8. I think its probably ABC28 and CBS10 if its 2 he is talking about - maybe UPN44.

Obviously, height is key.

Does the new DirecTV 5 LNB dish deal with rain fade any better than the others?

I use the AT9 for the normal Ku channels and seldom have Rain Fade on those.

Whether its the Ka band or the MPEG4 (most likely its the Ka band), it appears that is much more suspectable to fade than the Ku Band MPEG2 channels.

Cannot tell you anything about the Directv antenna, but I assure you if you could only pick up 2 stations, it wouldnt be Fox and UPN44.

All the VHF stations are challenging from Riverview, but CBS 10 (currently on 24 but moving back to 10) should be no problem for you. Forget NBC 8. I think its probably ABC28 and CBS10 if its 2 he is talking about - maybe UPN44.Well I decided to test his statement and bought a cheap ($40) indoor Philips antenna. Using that thing, I got exactly what you said. I got a signal on the HR10-250 of about 68 and I could pick up the CBS and ABC channels in pure HD goodness between 110 and 180 degrees. I also got one of the PBS stations, and a couple other crappy ones (a couple independent ones and a spanish station).

Would a better antenna like a CM 4221 or so up my chances of getting NBC or FOX?

Well I decided to test his statement and bought a cheap ($40) indoor Philips antenna. Using that thing, I got exactly what you said. I got a signal on the HR10-250 of about 68 and I could pick up the CBS and ABC channels in pure HD goodness between 110 and 180 degrees. I also got one of the PBS stations, and a couple other crappy ones (a couple independent ones and a spanish station).

Would a better antenna like a CM 4221 or so up my chances of getting NBC or FOX?

NBC is on 7 and Fox is on 12 - both High VHF (the only thing worse imo is low VHF).

I have a very difficult time with WFLA (when I actually decide to watch their crappy signal) and my external antenna is easily 20 feet over the ground. I went to Lowes and purchased their best CH antenna ($99) and an amp ($60) as Lowes has a 30 day money back guarantee. It did worse than the 2.5 ft Radio Shack Flying Wedge I have (Seen in the above photo. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8203025&&#post8203025) ) both alone and with the pre-amp.


VHF is just difficult with ATSC over 30 some miles and water (temp inversion on the bay can play with the signal transmission). You just need as much gain as you can get and as much height you can obtain.

FWIW, I have an additional 7 feet on another mount I was planning to test out until we got threatened by the tropical storm, which I know will destroy the Radio Shack antenna if I get it above the protected roof line to the North and West.

Was the installer just full of it so he didn't have to install the OTA antenna?

Anyone live anywhere close to Palm Harbor that can give me an idea what stations they can pick up using what types of antennas?

I'm in Plam Harbor just west of US 19, north of Nebraska. I've got a Square Shooter pointed towards Riverview, about 12' off the ground and pointed through a neighbor's tree. I've got the signal split to two receivers, and RCA DTC 210 and the Samsung 360. I've got an external pre-amp before the split, and amps on both lines before they go into the receiver.

That being said, when there are no storms, I can get every digital feed in the market. The only exception is ABC 40 out of Sarasota, which still isn't broadcasting at full power and is furhter away than Riverview. While it's raining as I write this, my signal for WFLA 8 and WTSP 10 cuts in and out, and my WMOR 32 signal isn't coming in.

Even though WTSP's signal is much closer, it is most weather sensitive (followed by WFLA). This is more because the antenna isn't pointed in that direction.

As for the installer, they will generally try to do whatever installation is easiest for them, even if its not best for you. They get paid a flat fee per job, whether they are there 10 minutes or 3 hours. Although its also my understanding OTA antennas are extra for the equipment and installation.

That being said, when there are no storms, I can get every digital feed in the market. The only exception is ABC 40 out of Sarasota, which still isn't broadcasting at full power and is furhter away than Riverview. While it's raining as I write this, my signal for WFLA 8 and WTSP 10 cuts in and out, and my WMOR 32 signal isn't coming in.

Even though WTSP's signal is much closer, it is most weather sensitive (followed by WFLA). This is more because the antenna isn't pointed in that direction.



As you may or may not be aware, the Square Shooter is very sensitive as you rotate it around its axis. It can be very effective in getting rid of multipath that way (something you probably don't have to worry about). You might try experimenting with the rotation of it as you should have no trouble with Channel 10 at any time as you can easily see it's strobes from your place.

I'm in Plam Harbor just west of US 19, north of Nebraska. I've got a Square Shooter pointed towards Riverview, about 12' off the ground and pointed through a neighbor's tree. I've got the signal split to two receivers, and RCA DTC 210 and the Samsung 360. I've got an external pre-amp before the split, and amps on both lines before they go into the receiver.

That being said, when there are no storms, I can get every digital feed in the market. The only exception is ABC 40 out of Sarasota, which still isn't broadcasting at full power and is furhter away than Riverview. While it's raining as I write this, my signal for WFLA 8 and WTSP 10 cuts in and out, and my WMOR 32 signal isn't coming in.

Even though WTSP's signal is much closer, it is most weather sensitive (followed by WFLA). This is more because the antenna isn't pointed in that direction.

As for the installer, they will generally try to do whatever installation is easiest for them, even if its not best for you. They get paid a flat fee per job, whether they are there 10 minutes or 3 hours. Although its also my understanding OTA antennas are extra for the equipment and installation.Great to hear you're near me and can get all the feeds! I'm just south of Nebraska, so I should be fine. I just ordered a Channel Master 4228 that I plan on installing in my attic (hopefully, wife doesn't want it on the roof) so I hope that works out.

As for the installer, I agree. He said he'd do it, but that basically the antennas they had left in stock were junk because they were attempting to get rid of them before the H20 is released. My wife said it looked sorta like a bowtie shaped grill grate.

Great to hear you're near me and can get all the feeds! I'm just south of Nebraska, so I should be fine. I just ordered a Channel Master 4228 that I plan on installing in my attic (hopefully, wife doesn't want it on the roof) so I hope that works out.

As for the installer, I agree. He said he'd do it, but that basically the antennas they had left in stock were junk because they were attempting to get rid of them before the H20 is released. My wife said it looked sorta like a bowtie shaped grill grate.

You do realize that the CM 4228 is a UHF antenna, not a specifically a VHF antenna and 8, 13 and 10 (Well, 10 will be once they move back in 2009) are VHF?

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

Look at the deep notch on the CM 4228 for Channel 8 at the bottom of the page. Also remember that 8 is really on 7 right now but will move back to 8 in Feb 2009.

Notre Dame Fighting Irish vs. Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets

I heard that we won't be getting this game on 28, but instead we will get to see the USF game. They are going to move the national game to 32 or something.

You do realize that the CM 4228 is a UHF antenna, not a specifically a VHF antenna and 8, 13 and 10 (Well, 10 will be once they move back in 2009) are VHF?Yeah I noticed that two of the network channels I need are VHF. I'm just hoping for the best. I'll install it and test it out. If it doesn't work I'll probably just return it and wait until D* releases the HR20 and hope they add dual buffers.

lol....Channel 8 is running a promo all weekend something like "Directv promised to upgrade to HDTV - but it's been nothing but problems - Now problem Solver Stacie Schaible takes on the Satellite Company...."

Too funny.

Have they bothered to look at the problems in their own building before throwing rocks?

Looks like an attempt to shift blame.

Since they are putting the Norte Dame game on 32, does that mean I won't be able to see it in HD?

Since they are putting the Norte Dame game on 32, does that mean I won't be able to see it in HD?

I don't know about 32, but if you can get 40 from Sarasota, they're showing the Notre Dame game in HD.

I don't know about 32, but if you can get 40 from Sarasota, they're showing the Notre Dame game in HD.


antennaweb says it is 25 miles from me...anyone had luck getting it from valrico? any antenna suggestions?

antennaweb says it is 25 miles from me...anyone had luck getting it from valrico? any antenna suggestions?I just got a Channel Master 4228 antenna but haven't installed it yet. It's still sitting in the (huge) box in my foyer.

lol...as I have stated, Channel 40 is lucky to come in 5 miles south of the antenna in Sarasota and it is directional with a null towards the north. They were forced to do this to keep their ABC affiliation.

No one in Hillsborough or Pinellas will be picking this up.

And as I stated, with the TV stations in the market, you need to make sure you have backup plans - I learned this about ABC28 and USF Football in 2004. Last year they only did USF on analog, but it looks like its back on the HD feed this year.

Oh well....there are always alternatives..

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/6577/hdgtsg4.png (http://imageshack.us)

Quick update. I installed the CM4228 in my attic and I'm getting signals between 80-95 on all the channels that antennaweb listed and they're looking great! I get all the major networks plus a bunch of junk channels I could care less about. One question, one of the channels listed (I forget which one) reads as "Weather Radar" in the D* guide, but it doesn't show any radar. I was hoping for a continuous feed of local doppler, but no such luck.

lol...as I have stated, Channel 40 is lucky to come in 5 miles south of the antenna in Sarasota and it is directional with a null towards the north. They were forced to do this to keep their ABC affiliation.
Let me try and get this straight:

Channel 40 (the ABC afilliate station for the Sarasota area) is "forced" to transmit in such a way that people located north of Sarasota, say in the Channel 28 viewing area, can NOT receive Channel 40's broadcasts? Okay, I guess that I can understand the reasoning for such a move... It doesn't make any sense at all, but I can see how Channel 28 might get all twisted up if "their" viewers opted to watch the Channel 40 broadcast. Heaven forbid that people watch what they want to watch! :eek:

But, I must admit that I completely and utterly fail to understand why Channel 40 is "forced" to transmit so that people like me, located in the heart of Sarasota, can NOT receive their transmissions... Interestingly enough, I can receive the Channel 28 transmissions OTA. Shouldn't Channel 28 be "forced to reduce power so that I can't receive their signals also? For that matter {heavy sarcasm} why not block everything that I can receive? Three cheers for the FCC...

Maybe someone can explain the logic behind limiting the local affiliate's signal strength so much that people in THAT geographical area are unable to receive it.

Or, more than likely, no one can explain the LOGIC since it is (as Spock would say) totally illogical?

Oh yeah. I watched the game on Channel 32.

Oh yeah. I watched the game on Channel 32.

i watched for a bit and could not believe how bad the PQ was. No HD...it looked like it was the ESPN Gameplan feed. why put a division 2 game that was not in HD on 28 and move the HD game to a SD channel.

Let me try and get this straight:

Channel 40 (the ABC afilliate station for the Sarasota area) is "forced" to transmit in such a way that people located north of Sarasota, say in the Channel 28 viewing area, can NOT receive Channel 40's broadcasts? Okay, I guess that I can understand the reasoning for such a move... It doesn't make any sense at all, but I can see how Channel 28 might get all twisted up if "their" viewers opted to watch the Channel 40 broadcast. Heaven forbid that people watch what they want to watch! :eek:

But, I must admit that I completely and utterly fail to understand why Channel 40 is "forced" to transmit so that people like me, located in the heart of Sarasota, can NOT receive their transmissions... Interestingly enough, I can receive the Channel 28 transmissions OTA. Shouldn't Channel 28 be "forced to reduce power so that I can't receive their signals also? For that matter {heavy sarcasm} why not block everything that I can receive? Three cheers for the FCC...

Maybe someone can explain the logic behind limiting the local affiliate's signal strength so much that people in THAT geographical area are unable to receive it.

Or, more than likely, no one can explain the LOGIC since it is (as Spock would say) totally illogical?

Oh yeah. I watched the game on Channel 32.

Well, backup a second.

First, remember that Networks only have 1 affiliate in any given television market - also remember that Tampa-Sarasota-Lakeland is 1 Television market.

Channel 10 was the ABC affiliate until the mid 90s. As there is a Channel 10 in Miami, Channel 10 was shortspaced and could not move the transmitter to Riverview - thats why they are up in New Port Richey.

Because of this, people in Sarasota had problems picking up ABC. ABC made an affiliateion deal with Channel 40 so that people in Sarasota could get ABC (Remember we are talking back 25-30 years - long before heavy cable penetration as well). As Channel 10 could not get a signal down there covering the 2 Counties, it was really a mute point.

However, that all changed in the mid 90s when everyone except channel 8 changed network affiliations. Fox picked up NFL football and dropped CBS on Channel 13 - so CBS was in play. Channel 10 said they were happy and did not want to change affiliates - however, 28 had its Parent Company sign an agreement with ABC for affiliation for ALL its stations so 28 ended up with ABC and Channel 10 had squat. Of course, they ended up signing with CBS, but it was literally no other choice. In retrospect considering all, they made out probably the best of anyone.

That said, Channel 28 did not have the problem with Sarasota-Bradenton so that has always been a sticky situation since that re-alignment. Again, in literally no other Television Market do you have 2 different stations with the same Network.

When ATSC came about (I am told this and believe this - I have not researched it though) ABC, 40 and 28 had an agreement that Channel 40 would apply for their DTV signal to be directional South so that they would not get into Tampa/St. Pete. This is different than the non-directional signal they use now for analog.

If they chose not to do that (which was their right) ABC was going to pull the network affiliation - which quite frankly - many cannot believe wasn't done anyway as 28 covers the entire area.

So, this was 40s decision.

Now - the reason you cannot pick them up in Sarasota now has NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT. It's that they are cheap and aren't on high power - again - totally their decision.

Odds are that in the future that if Channel 40 wanted to change to a non-directional signal and drop ABC, they could do that. However, as they will pay Tampa DMA prices for syndication and other programming as they are a part of this market and no other network is available to them, there is not a lot of financial benefit to that.

And, the FCC had no part forcing any of this - in fact, you could argue they played a role in keeping 40 an ABC affiliate, because if ABC and Scripps Howard weren't a little worried about it, they would have most likely dropped ABC from 40 - probably turning it into an infomercial station or maybe even religous broadcasting.

Totally confused now?

Well, backup a second.

Now - the reason you cannot pick them up in Sarasota now has NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT. It's that they are cheap and aren't on high power - again - totally their decision.

And, the FCC had no part forcing any of this - in fact, you could argue they played a role in keeping 40 an ABC affiliate, because if ABC and Scripps Howard weren't a little worried about it, they would have most likely dropped ABC from 40 - probably turning it into an infomercial station or maybe even religous broadcasting.

Totally confused now?
Yep! :D

It sounds like you basically boiled it down to the reason for not being able to receive Channel 40's HD signal is because Channel 40 is transmitting at reduced power because they are too cheap to transmit at full power?

As the Church Lady would say: "Well, isn't that special..."

I foolishly believed that the FCC was responsible for managing this stuff. Didn't they put a deadline into effect for requiring all stations to broadcast at full power? And if not, why not? :confused:

It's one thing to limit expenses by reducing power... But, when the power is reduced so much that the signal is so weak it can't be received in the middle of the area is it licensed to cover is absurd. It just doesn't make ANY sense to choose to transmit in HD if you then reduce the power of the transmission so much that the majority of your customers can't receive the HD transmissions... But, it probably hinges on the fact that Channel 40 simply doesn't care about people receiving their broadcasts OTA --- but rather --- being able to provide Comcast with the HD feed?

So, unless I am missing something here, it DOES seem to me that the FCC is (once again) dropping the proverbial football. And, if market pressure isn't sufficient to impel Channel 40 to transmit at adequate strength --- then the FCC should step up to the plate (mixed metaphors). ;)

Of course, in the bigger scheme of things, this whole thing really doesn't amount to a big hill of beans... :D It's just typical of the way this entire area is lagging behind the other DMAs?

But, it probably hinges on the fact that Channel 40 simply doesn't care about people receiving their broadcasts OTA --- but rather --- being able to provide Comcast with the HD feed?

You are definitely correct in your assessment. They run fiber between their studios to Comcast for SD and HD, and that's the only customer base they really cater to.

Very sad.

You are definitely correct in your assessment. They run fiber between their studios to Comcast for SD and HD, and that's the only customer base they really cater to.

Very sad.
I agree Ron. Sad indeed... But, I wonder how many "normal" people even care? Is the customer base of people receiving Channel 40's HD transmissions OTA so small that it is negligible?

Can one use a QAM capable receiver and access the HD feed from Channel 40 via Comcast's non-digital cable? I seem to remember reading that cable companies are required to provide the network HD feeds unencrypted? Maybe worth consideration. Although, honestly, Channel 40 rarely provides any programming that I would care to watch --- other than the rare case like the Notre Dame football game. Their local news team coverage is good for a laugh though... ;)

Hmmm, is the quality of Channel 40's signal much greater when accessed via Comcast (QAM) as compared to watching Channel 28 via D*'s crappy Mpeg4 transmission or the poor OTA reception I get (my antenna is partially blocked by trees)?

Again, I set up to capture Saving Private Ryan in 2004 from Channel 40 at a transmitter site about 3-5 miles south of 40 and could not pick it up with any antenna except the Radio Shack Antenna I rave about.

Again - 3-5 south of the tower - no go.

Yes, the FCC did give a deadline for getting up to power. However, they grant extensions.

Look at it this way - if the FCC said no and Channel 40 did not want to upgrade (instead of waiting for WTSP's current DTV stuff in 2009 as it appears will happen), then the FCC could pull the license (and then you loose Sarasota's only local Newscast) or they sell it and and ABC pulls the network (not grandfathered) and we all know that non-network affiliates will not invest in news operations around here - get the drift?

Hello HSN-2 or PTL or Yo Hablo Espanol.

Can one use a QAM capable receiver and access the HD feed from Channel 40 via Comcast's non-digital cable? I seem to remember reading that cable companies are required to provide the network HD feeds unencrypted?

I once had the MyHD MDP-130 (just sold it about 2 weeks ago), and it being a QAM capable tuner card, was able to pull in all the unencrypted stations from Comcast. Digital broadcasts of 3, 8, 10, 13, 38 and 40. Of course, all the other HD Comcast carries is encrypted.

I once had the MyHD MDP-130 (just sold it about 2 weeks ago), and it being a QAM capable tuner card, was able to pull in all the unencrypted stations from Comcast. Digital broadcasts of 3, 8, 10, 13, 38 and 40. Of course, all the other HD Comcast carries is encrypted.
Ron, Time to get QAM I guess... Is the Comcast HD very good?

Losing Channel 40 news wouldn't be much of a loss IMO... Their news personalities are terrible. {gag} Gee, 2009? :)

Ron, Time to get QAM I guess... Is the Comcast HD very good?

Losing Channel 40 news wouldn't be much of a loss IMO... Their news personalities are terrible. {gag} Gee, 2009? :)

I don't subscribe to their HD and only viewed it via the QAM tuner card, which I've since sold. Comcast HD is not "bad" but I prefer my OTA/satellite solution for local channels. In general, I really am sour on Comcast due to their horrible delivery of SD channels, so therefore only have a minimal cable subscription.

Channel 40, IMO, falls in the same category as SNN 6, if you know what I mean. ;)

I just wish Nextcom could get their units working with S/A STBs.

Just wondering if anyone is over in the Polk County area? I'm in Lake Wales, 33853, and was wondering what type of antenna folks are using. I'm just getting started and need some assistance. Thanks in advance.

Antennaweb results:

* yellow - uhf WFTS-DT 28.1 ABC TAMP FL 269° 43.1 29
* yellow - uhf WTOG-DT 44.1 UPN ST. PE FL 269° 43.1 59
* yellow - uhf WEDU-DT 3.1 PBS TAMP FL 269° 43.1 54
* yellow - uhf WMOR-DT 32.1 IND LAKE FL 266° 43.1 19
* yellow - uhf WOPX-DT 56.1 i MELB FL 68° 29.7 48
* green - uhf WXPX-DT 66.1 i BRAD FL 266° 43.1 42
* lt green - uhf WTTA-DT 38.1 MNT ST. PE FL 269° 43.1 57
* lt green - uhf WUSF-DT 16.1 PBS TAMP FL 269° 43.1 34
* lt green - vhf WESH-DT 2.1 NBC DAYT FL 36° 57.5 11
* red - uhf WKMG-DT 6.1 CBS ORLA FL 36° 57.5 58
* red - uhf WKCF-DT 18.1 WB CLER FL 36° 55.4 17
* red - uhf WFTV-DT 9.1 ABC ORLA FL 38° 55.3 39
* red - uhf WLCB-DT 46 FMN LEES FL 36° 55.4 46
* red - uhf WRBW-DT 65.1 MNT ORLA FL 36° 57.5 41
* red - vhf WFLA-DT 8.1 NBC TAMP FL 269° 43.1 7
* red - uhf WFTT-DT 50.1 TFA TAMP FL 269° 43.1 47
* red - vhf WTVT-DT 13.1 FOX TAMP FL 266° 41.9 12
* blue - uhf WRDQ-DT 14.0 IND ORLA FL 38° 55.3 14
* blue - uhf WCEU-DT 15.1 PBS NEW S FL 35° 56.8 33
* blue - uhf WBCC-DT 68.1 PBS COCO FL 36° 57.5 30
* violet - uhf WTGL-DT 53 FMN COCO FL TBD 36° 55.4 53
* violet - uhf WOFL-DT 35.1 FOX ORLA FL 35° 56.3 22
* violet - uhf WMFE-DT 24.1 PBS ORLA FL 34° 56.0 23
* violet - uhf WCLF-DT 22.1 CTN CLEA FL 266° 43.1 21

I'd get the best antenna you could find and point it towards Orlando and forget Tampa HD which gets worse every month.

[QUOTE=hickoryboyz]Just wondering if anyone is over in the Polk County area? I'm in Lake Wales, 33853, and was wondering what type of antenna folks are using. I'm just getting started and need some assistance. Thanks in advance.

I am in Winter Haven, just north of you, near the new Walmart. Try http://www.starkelectronic.com/allomni.htm I bought the MIni-state 5MS9000 IR from Stark. It uses a remote to turn antenna. In my location I can aim it (it is one of those round white antenna) towrd Tampa and pull in Orlando off back side. I have very little trouble pulling in Tampa ABC 28, NBC 8, and Fox 13 all in HD I can not get CBS 10 as they use channel 24 and there is a PBS 24 in Orlando. And CBS antenna is way over on coast , rest of Tampa is near Riverside. I also get UPN and WB(now CW) from Tampa and PBS3 and WUSF all in HD or digital.

From Orlando I pull in all networks ABC9, CBS6, FOX35, PBS, I have some problems with NBC 2 Daytona. I also get the UPN and WB from Orlando. All are HD or digital, I no longer watch any analog tv. My tv is a SONY BRavia 32 inch. with built in ATSC and NTSC tuners

Anyone has had both services and care to share some comparison / feedback?

I am currently on Brighthouse but am considering to switch. Here's what I know:

HD channels difference - Brighthouse has the 2 INHD channels and Fios does not. But Fios has ESPN2HD, National Geo HD, MTV HD, and few others

Media center DVR - Brighthouse only has standalone units, Fios has multi-room systems. However, only the Fios media center DVR can view HD content, not other rooms.

On Demand channels and BayNews9 - Brighthouse has them and Fios does not.

I am not sure about the quality of the channels (SD and HD) and hope someone can comment.

Thanks,
Lesmiz

Fios kicks BHN butt currently for offerings, quality and price in HD and SD. BHN is rate shaping signals - especially locals in HD so they look worse than OTA.

Who needs On Demand with a DVR.

As for Baynews 9, if its a big story, the 4 networks will break in anyway. Considering they are just on a big loop (especially overnight and weekends), very little gets updated if breaking news anyway. Just DVR the Newscasts from a local station if that is what is important to you for viewing when you choose.

lol....Channel 8 is running a promo all weekend something like "Directv promised to upgrade to HDTV - but it's been nothing but problems - Now problem Solver Stacie Schaible takes on the Satellite Company...."

Too funny.

Have they bothered to look at the problems in their own building before throwing rocks?

Looks like an attempt to shift blame.

I recently switched to Directv and meant to watch the Problem Solver report. Did anyone see it and what spin was WFLA spewing?

Their broadcast of Thursday night's NFL game was a piece of crap. The signal kept flickering as if another video layer was being applied to the signal. I confirmed with others at my work that they saw the same thing on cable, so it obviously was not a Directv issue.

By the way, I called WFLA during the game and they said "they were not aware of any problems with their HD feed." The person also said "the picture looked good to him." I guess if you are used to looking at crap, then you don't know any better.

Are others having similar issues with WFLA (quasi- HD) football broadcasts?