I would like to open this thread up to those who live in the greater area of Sarasota/Bradenton/Venice.
I have been a participant in the Tampa thread, but lately it has become a BHN bitch session, filled with some vitriolic responses, which are totally off topic.
Those of us in the area south of Tampa have different equipment requirements and reception options. Hopefully this will be a location for us to post our problems, suggestions, etc.

Thanks,
Ken

Good idea, Ken:

I'm in South Sarasota, near the Sarasota Sq. mall. I have a big R/S VHF/UHF antenna, in the attic, amplified. I also have a Blonder-Tongue UHF specific antenna for channel 24, to get Holiday. It's also amplified, and it's outdoors, up around 15 feet off the ground. I am using a Jointenna to combine both antenna.

I get all the Tampa digital stations with a very good signal, except for WFLA, whose signal has deteriorated in the last few months. I also get WWSB and WBBH (FT. Myers) off the back of my antenna. My receiver is a Sony HD200.

Ron

Ron,
Spoke with the tech at WWSB about a reception problem, and he (appropriately named Crash!) said that they were having trouble getting the signal across Sarasota. I'm using a Samsung 160 and get pretty good reception, but I also have a rake on the roof. The Parrish transmitter is close to the direction for the Tampa Riverview channels. Do you get 40-1 pretty good?
Also, regarding the Stealthtenna, did you have the amplifier?
I have noticed that WFLA is down to about 78 on my reception meter, from about 88. Didn't check it until I read your report.

Ken

Hi, I just moved from St Pete to Parrish about a month ago. I am just getting into HDTV. Anyone can advice what would be the best outdoor antennae and DirectTV HD receiver? DVI output preferred.

BTW, I noticed kgalbreth referenced the "Parrish" transmitter I am right next to it. Hell I can see it right out of my window. I hope that is not a problem.

Advice would be greatly appreciated.

BTW, any of guys ever get together and meet? When I lived in St. Pete we did that often (once a month). It was very cool meeting new people with the same interest.

Jerry,

I left you a post on the Tampa thread as well, hadn't checked this one yet. I have a company which installs home theater, alarm systems and other low voltage equipment in this area.
You should have no problem in the Parrish area receiving the Tampa and Sarasota OTA's (probably some Ft. Myers as well). Being next to the Parrish tower hasn't hurt anyone we've worked with out that way.
Mostly, I recomend the Sony HD200, although I'm using a Samsung TS-160 myself. Reasoning for this is long and there is a thread about 160's on this forum. Suffice it to say the HD200 is very stable.
I just started this thread today, believing that there were enough individuals who were interested in exchanging ideas, solutions and questions to warrant a thread of our own. A get together would be good, and easier than a trip to Tampa/Brandon/St. Pete.

Ken

Ken,

I'm moving to Bradenton (from Hawaii, so I sold everything and I get to start over from scratch), and I sent you a PM. We should talk.

-David

JP

We do installations in Parrish and the surrounding area. Mostly D* out there because no cable north of Rye and 675 intersection. What type of house, location and equipment?

KenHi I am over here now. I live out on Foxbrook (new development), but, fortunately/unfortunately I have BHN in my development. Fortunately, I have cable modem :) unfortunately my wife wanted a PVR and their prices for cable tv where almost double the money I was paying in St. Pete. So I changed to DirectTV.

The reason I was asking about HD reception is because I need the new source for a PJ I just bought.

Do you have any outdoor antennae recommendations and where to point this thing? :)

Also, do you have a store? what local shops do we have in SRQ/Bradenton?

Ken:
Regarding WWSB, I do get their signal but really haven't observed the signal strength on my HD200. I generally watch ABC on WFTS because their signal is much stronger than WWSB and they also have the Dolby Digital decoder, which WWSB does not have yet. I had a tour, several months ago, at WWSB's new studio, by Mike Burnham, the Chief Engineer. He's a really nice person, and they have quite an impressive operation.

As for WFLA, their signal is too unreliable, and drops out frequently, so I've resorted to watching my NBC material from Ft. Myers. I don't understand why they vary in strength, from the other Riverview located stations. Fox used to have the same problem, but they've been more stable over the last few months.

When I had my Stealth antenna up, it was at 25 feet, and I did use it with the amplifier. Actually, I still have the Stealth sitting in my attic. If you know anyone that wants to buy it, let me know. The main reason I used the Stealth, was to try to get all of the Tampa based stations. Holiday was always a challenge, and the Riverview stations came in no better than on my attic situated antenna. So I removed the Stealth , and then put up the Blonder-Tongue (at 15 ft.) for WTSP, which I mentioned in my previous post. Now all works fine, at least for me.

Originally posted by Ron 34238
Blonder-Tongue what is that? any links?

JP

Blonder-Tongue is a company which manufactures high end television and broadband reception equipment and amplifiers. Used a lot by cable companies.
Sounds strange doesn't it.
Here is a pretty good link:

http://www.blondertongue.com/pages/products/productsOverview.php

They can be purchased in a myriad of places.

Ken

JP

The BTY-10-U (B for channel 20-26) is the specific one that I have.

http://www.blondertongue.com/media/pdfs/catalog_classes/offAirAntennas.pdf

I purchased my mail order from Starke Electronics in Mass. About $100 shipped. As Ken said, there's other outlets to get it. The antenna comes assembled, is UPS shippable, and the overall length is 48''. Works great for receiving Holiday.

Ron

Interesting news post from yesterday:

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030603/35747_1.html

Ken

Yes, very interesting. I think that this will hurt both Comcast and BHN, unless they are able to strike a similar deal to increase their HD offerings on their cable systems. Not sure what BHN offers, but Comcast only has CBS and ABC, in addition to HBO and Showtime.

It's also interesting to note that HDNET, which has been free on Direct TV, since it began almost two years ago, will no longer be free, and will be part of the $10.99 package. I would expect that they might have a trial period where they offer the package at no charge and then get subscribers to sign up for it.

I agree. As one who has enjoyed HDNet, and the offerings on 198, as long as they continue to broadcast quality transmissions, I'm willing to pay. However, if they squeeze the bandwidth to accomodate the channels and we get pixilation (ala 3-5) on movement, then that could cloud the issue.
3-5 used to have excellent quality until they split the stream into the 3 channels. I don't know how much bandwidth they allocated to 3-5 but it pixilates something terrible.
Your point on 28-1 is well taken. 40-1 has a good picture, but not the quality audio (3.2) that 28 usually transmits. 40 also broadcasts in 14:9 and unless I live with about and inch and a half bar on both sides, it overscans something fierce. 28-1 zooms with no overscan on my 160. Still playing with the HD200 to see what the effect is.

Ken

Ken:
I LOVE my HD200. I have a 16:9 display, and I send everything out of the HD200 in Panorama mode. It produces a normal picture on the 4:3 portion of the display, and stretches the sides, to fill the display. I've got quite used to watch all my material set at 1080i and in Wide Screen. It does the best job that I have seen of taking a 4:3 picture and distributing on a 16:9 display.

As for PBS, they have gone from best to worst!! They probably hae too much bandwidth assigned to their SD channels and, as a result, we get severe pixeliztion on their HD channel. It's a shame what they have done to previous beautiful HD material. Tonight, there's Fosse (the show) being broadcast in HD. I'm interesting in seeing how much movement there is, hence, the amount of pixelization.

Let's hope that DirecTV will allocate sufficient bandwidth to their new stations, come July. I would assume, that if they are going to charge for it, they will do the right thing. We'll see.

Does anyone have an ETA on when WINK will begin broadcasting?

mikejz84

No word here on a firm date, other than they had pulled the permit for the new shack they were building.
They were granted a delay by the FCC as they were first assigned to digital 9 for the startup and then they tried to switch them up to a UHF frequency. WINK fought it and got the delay.
The chief engineer down there is receptive to phone calls.

Ken

i was surprised to see a sarasota group, i live by Walmart and Home Depot
slip

Hey, no reason we don't deserve our own place. Reception situations are different here, and we have the benefit of both locations, Tampa and Ft. Myers.
What equipment are you using and how is your reception?

Ken

Great to see a Sarasota thread.

I live just north of the fairgrounds and use a RCA DTC-100.

WWSB has a STA from the FCC for low power and is only running 930 watts.

As for WFLA. I am told that in Tampa WFLA is channel 7 on the cable system, and it leaks so bad that the WFLA-DT signal, also on channel 7, has been causing snow on the cable channel 7, so they have reduced power to eliminate the problem on cable. Sometimes down to 5-15% power.

WINK was originally assigned a UHF channel and they applied to change that to channel 9. Channel 9 in Orlando filed againt them. WINK was granted channel 9 after a long battle, but channel 9 in Orlando continues to fight it.

WA4ISB

Nice post. That explains the reception level on WFLA and also why WWSB has some problems making the trip across Sarasota at times.
Wish WINK would be able to get up and functional as they should hit us at a pretty good level.
The tech at WINK told me that to save money they had already committed to a 9-11 digital startup system, and then were sent up to the UHF spectrum. They fought the change because the 9-11 setup would have left them with a complete backup in place.
Information exchanges like yours are just what we need on this thread.

Ken

WA4ISB--

Along with Ken, thanks for your post. You are the first one that has acknowledged that WFLA-DT has reduced power. I was beginning to think it was just my problem.

Ron

Thanks guys

I'm Chief Engineer for Cox Radio in Tampa and share some transmitter sites with the TV guys, so sometimes I can get some helpful information from their engineers.

Clipped today from the WINK web site:

WINK-TV and HDTV
Dateline: June 16, 2003 -



WINK-TV : Please accept our apology that we are not broadcasting in HDTV at this time.

In November 2002, the FCC ruled in favor of WINK-TV's request to be reassigned from DTV channel 53 to DTV channel 9, which will allow the station to utilize the same digital transmission equipment throughout our conversion from anaolog to digital broadcasting.

We had been waiting for the FCC's ruling for over two years and, once granted, WINK-TV filed for a DTV construction permit so we could begin investing in the digital broadcasting equipment necessary to provide you with many of your favorite CBS programs and sporting events in HDTV.

Unfortunately, the FCC's decision has been contested by two broadcasting companies with TV stations located in television markets adjacent to ours. We have no reason to believe that these appeals will be successful but, until they have been ruled upon by the FCC, our DTV construction permit has been put on hold.

It is our goal to begin transmitting HDTV programming to you within twelve months of receiving approval from the FCC to begin construction of our digital transmission facilities. Unfortunately, once again, we are waiting on the FCC for a decision that we expected months ago.

In the meantime, we hope you will continue to watch WINK-TV's highly respected news programs and enjoy our station's quality entertainment programs. We value you as a viewer and thank you for your patience.
_________________________

Guess it won't happen as soon as maybe we hoped it would.


Ken

There went the superbowl

Anyone know how the reception is down in Ft. Myers (around exit 128) I am going to be down there for a while with nothing but a silver sensor.

If the reception here is any indication, they are in pretty good shape down there with the exception as noted with WINK.

NBC broadcasts on both 20.1 and 20.2

ABC broadcasts on both 26.1 and 26.2

Fox is on 36.1

46.1 is also available

33 is WGCU, I think.

These channels come in constantly for me here in Sarasota.

Those are the virtuals, you can find the actuals, as well as where they transmit from and what antenna is suggested, from this web site:

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.asp

Let us know how it works out.

Ken

Ken, Thanks for informing me of this thread. I will be buying an hd set about
the time the hd tivo comes out. Is there much difference in picture quality
between directv, bhn and ota with hd signal? I have had directv for two
months and have not been all that happy with the standard def PQ.
Seems a bit too much signal compression for my taste. I still have the
cable hooked up so i borrowed my sons sa8000 (lousy dvr) and in a
a-b comparison the digital cable had better PQ than directv. So i am
not sure which i should use as my hd signal source?
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Troup,

Hey anyone I am just wondering if anyone notice a spike in WFTX's signal? I have never been able to get its signal very well with my silver sensor here in Fort Myers, but all of a sudden it seems to be coming in great.

P.s. does anyone know where WGCU's transmitter is? I live in the dorms at FGCU--And I can't get the our schools own station!

Nice to see a Sarasota thread, but I just moved from there to Parrish! :)

Hi,
Any one still monitoring this thread?
I was wondering if anyone in Sarasota had personal experience with Comcast HD and Satellite HD. A guy told me that Comcast's PQ in this area is poor compared to either Dish or DirecTV's HD. He said that comcast wasn't dedicating enough bandwith to their channels.

Was this guy just blowing smoke or is he correct? I can't stand comcast but I also don't wan't to pay for a receiver if comcast will give me one just for my business.

Any help would be appreciated, Thanks.
GeoffQ

Guess there are still a few of us Sarasotan's still kicking.
Only feedback on Comcast I can give you is hearsay. That being said, Comcast doesn't have a very good reputation from those I have spoken to who have tried their HD. But then, Comcast as a company hasn't been very progressive anyway. Cable obviously has the advantage of bandwidth and consistency of signal. But the company needs to have a vision of what we want.
For my purposes, D* has been more than satisfactory. Occasional rainouts, but a great choice of channels. OTA where I am, just North of University Pkwy. is no problem. I have a exterior antenna and get all Tampa and Ft. Myers/Naples channels clearly.
Echostar is not my bag of tea.

Hope this helps muddy the water!

Ken

Hi Ken,

I’m also glad you started this thread. (Please pardon some slightly off topic comments, before I return to the subject.)

My wife and I have been living in Sarasota for a few months in a rental home near Siesta Key while waiting for our new home to be built. It was completed a few weeks ago and is located over in Secluded Oaks off of Clark Road about 2 miles East of I-75. Unfortunately, the move proved to be a nightmare. We’ve moved from the Washington, DC area where we had our stuff in storage. When our possessions were delivered it turned out the moving company misplaced an entire storage crate with a lot of my home theater gear, including my DIRECTV receivers. Then they couldn’t get my 60” HDTV upstairs to the second floor.

Fortunately, it turned out the guy (Louis Carliner) that calibrated my TV when I lived in the DC area lives not too far from Sarasota. So I hired him to be available when the movers showed up with the rest of our stuff. Louis was able to partially dismantle the TV to permit the movers to negotiate the hallways and stairs. Then he set to work doing his magic in recalibrating the HDTV. (If any one has a rear projection HDTV, you can’t find a better calibrationist than Louis.)

Which brings me back to the subject at hand.
Originally I was planning on going with Comcast. However, I needed some answers from their Customer/Technical support concerning connection compatibility with my HDTV. After speaking with them via email I realized that most of them were clueless. So I decided to continue with DIRECTV. To help with the decision I later found out that RCA will finally be releasing their HD TiVo receiver. They are scheduled to install my triple LNB dish this week and its just in time since I’ve started to feel the ill-effects of high definition withdrawal symptoms. :D

After I located my DIRECTV HD receiver I was able to temporarily connect a Terk TV55 indoor/outdoor antenna to it. With the business of moving in I’ve only had a very short time to experiment with reception, but I was pleasantly surprised to be able to pull in a number of channels.

For my permanent over the air antenna I plan on either placing it in the second floor attic, or if its not too ugly mounting it off the satellite mounting. I’m leaning toward the Winegard Sensor II with amplifier (http://starkelectronic.com/wgs2000.htm). Its supposed to be suitable for a range of 10 – 55 miles. According to the AntennaWeb I’m located between 19 and 52 miles from the digital transmiters. Any one have any comments or suggestions?

Thanks.

Larry

Nice to have local group.
My equipment:
HDTV Samsung HLM507W DLP with SRT165 tuner
HDTV Samsung 30" CRT with SRT151 tuner
CM4228 8bay bowtie rooftop antenna with rotator
CM7777 distribution amp
Have no problem pulling all Tampa, Hudson, Ft Myers stations

Hi Ken,
Thanks for the reply. I guess there is a few of us that live here. I just got a Winegard Sensor installed on a 30' pole and started receiving all the digital channels that TitanTV says are available OTA. WOW!! was only getting ABC and NBC with my Terk55. WOW!

Back to my original question. The reason I am asking about comcast PQ is that they will give you an HD receiver but you have to pay either $400 and change for the Dish 811 or $900 and change for the 9xx version. I have been a Dish customer for three years and it pisses me off that I have to shell out for a receiver that I know they will make money on me with. Whereas comcast will just give me one. The other thing is that I have to decide on which 2 services I want and the NFL package is a must so one of them has to be DirecTV but I love my Dish PVR and DirecTV's tivo just doesn't cut it. Any way I want to receive the nonbroadcast HD channels and am not sure which provider to go with. So if anyone has any first hand experience with Comcast HD PQ and a satelite provider's HD PQ please chime in.
Thanks,
GeoffQ

Hello all,

I live just outside the Parrish area in one of the new developments there.
My Equipment consists of:

Mitsubishi 46807 HDTV
Sony ES DA80ES Receiver
Sony DVP-7000S DVD Player
Bright House Networks Pace STB
Polk Audio LS70 Front R + L
Polk Audio CS350LS Center
Polk In Ceiling Speakers for Surround
Velodyne DD-12 Sub
Bell'ogetti furniture

by the way , if anybody is interested, I am going to sell my Bell'ogetti furniture. A picture of my HT is enclosed.

jeff

I guess we are supposed to post our equipment I got all caught up in delight with all the digital channels that popped up with my antenna install I forgot etiquette.

26in Samsung CRT HDTV
MyHD MDP100
Shuttle NF2 XPC
So far just starting with a old HT setup with a JVC receiver and Cambridge Soundworks speaker system. Will be purchasing a Denon 3803 and some nice speakers to go with it soon.
Also a Samy 60" DLP coming soon.

GeoffQ

Be sure and let us know when you get the Sammy DLP and how it functions, set up, etc.

Here's a link to a service that I subscribe to:

http://www.ilovehdtv.com/

I receive daily, via e-mail, a listing of what is on in HDTV and also summaries of what is happening in the HD world. Dale Cripps is the producer of the web site and has been around HD since the start. There is a charge for the service, but minimal and well worth it. It will be interesting to see what he comes back from the CES with.

Also for calibration junkies, HDNet has the following:

12:00PM ET/11:00 C
HDNet Test Patterns

Wonder how your home theatre is doing? Wish you had test patterns to help set it up? Well, HDNet is here to help. This short program will help you get the most out of your home theatre setup by providing you with the same professional test patterns HDNet uses to set their gear.

Happy HD'ing,

Ken

I'm a subscriber to Comast HD in Sarasota. I was browsing the channels today and I came across channel 690, which has "DVR" as the channel name but no decription as well as no video or audio content. Anyone know what the plan is for this channel? I'm hoping its one of their help/info chans like the "How to use the on screen guide" for the upcoming DVR unit. If this is what it is intending for this is awesome news. I've been waiting for the DVR to get to our area and the ability to archive HD content. If you have any info on this please post!

I only subscribe to Comcast basic, so don't get any of the channels starting at 100, however I did inquire with them about what their DVR plans were, and I was told that they were planning to offer the Scientific Atlantic 8000HD unit, which is a DVR, multi tuner set. They told me their ETA is end of March.

That's all I can share.

Hi,

Well, the Superbowl is just a few hours away and it looks like I'll be forced to view it just in standard definition instead of high definition. :(

What is super-frustrating is that DIRECTV just started to broadcast CBS high definition for LA and NY, BUT apparently we DIRECTV customers in Sarasota are not eligible to get those feeds.

Local Tampa affiliate WTSP-DT (Channel 10.1)has its digital antennas located in Holiday, Florida almost 80 miles away from me. What is frustrating is that DIRECTV's eligibility web page states that I should be getting moderate reception, but that's obviously based on the location of their standard definition antennas which are located at roughly half that distance in St. Petersburg.

When I finally got through to a Customer Service Rep at DIRECTV she told me that she would need to get a waiver from both CBS affiliates WTSP (Tampa) and WINK (Ft. Meyer) in order to let me get the NY HD feed. I explained to her that WINK wasn't even broadcasting in high definition yet, so what would be their basis of denying the waiver?

I'm not sure, but paradoxically it looks like eligibility for the CBS HD feed is based on standard definition reception. DUH!!

Larry

I made two separate phone calls to DirecTv and got the same response that you did. Apparently some people in our area have been able to get the CSRs to "flip the switch" and turn on CBS NY, but that is obviously an error on DirecTv's part.

I'll be watching with my OTA antenna, hoping that the signal holds up for the game.

The following is excerpted from a post by Dale Cripps of HDTV Magazine, in reference to an article yesterday about requesting a waiver and some people getting around it by cheating:

(Quote):

Dale- I appreciate your editorial on the CBS Waiver issue for the Super Bowl.

You must realize that what you have suggested is not at all in compliance with the FCC regulations regarding waiver process.

When these things are granted a special specific procedure must be followed. In addition, assuming the waver is granted by local station management it is never granted for one TV program, no matter how important that program may be to one person.

The waiver once granted is issued permanently for life until it is challenged by the station granting it for revocation.

In addition, there are several holes in the waiver process that may be exploited completely legal and totally in line with the law. To suggest that all who have waivers and can also receive local signals are in some sort of violation is akin to libel.

The first thing you have to realize is that the waiver process is granted by the station entirely on a voluntary basis. It does not have to be as a result of signals or testing. It can be granted just for the asking. So it goes, some people get with sugar better than others who try to get with crap. I got my waiver just for the asking and I live 4 miles from the tower! Did I break the law? In fact I was turned down the first time I asked but 60 days later the station called me with a change of heart. No action on my part, just that they changed their minds.

If the waiver is denied, you do have the right of challenge. In this case you must conduct signal tests under specification in the waiver challenge procedure and pay for those tests. If you meet the needs for the waiver based on test results the station's denial will be over ruled by FCC arbitration.

I also believe that if a station can prove adequate signals at your location they can overturn a previously granted waiver but the reversal of a waiver is a far more difficult procedure and must be done on an individual basis. Because of this, the rule is one of good business since that if the waiver is granted it is not worth one viewer to challenge and pay the cost of reversal. Therefore we consider the waiver permanent for life. Again there is no provision for temporary waivers for special TV shows, not even the Super Bowl. Once granted it is too costly to revoke.

While I appreciate all the emotion in your editorial, it, unfortunately is too little, too late, and doesn't even match with the FCC waiver process. No professional in the broadcast business will do anything in the next 24 hours, on a weekend, that would compromise a hold they have on your viewing. It is unlikely that on the weekend no one at Dish or DirecTV is in place to process the faxed waivers in the 11th hour. Even my waiver which was faxed took 3 days for it to have final approval from the DBS employee who processes the paperwork. I got confirmation of receipt of my waiver at Dish Network and was told to call back in a week for activation. Of course I could be quite wrong and as a result of your mass mailing receive thousands of waivers via Fax in the next several hours and have to call in the OT to get people their Super Bowl and then CBS for life! I wouldn't hold my breath, though. Everyone is too busy with the routine.

Don Landis

Licensed Consulting Broadcast Engr________________________________.

(End Quote):

Ken

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the response. The Holiday transmitters are so far away from my location that AntennaWeb doesn’t even list WTSP-DT as a local digital station for my address. As a result it wasn’t until today, that I discovered WTSP is considered a “local” CBS affiliate for Sarasota. In an earlier posting I commented:

For my permanent over the air antenna I plan on either placing it in the second floor attic, or if its not too ugly mounting it off the satellite mounting. I’m leaning toward the Winegard Sensor II with amplifier. Its supposed to be suitable for a range of 10 – 55 miles. According to the AntennaWeb I’m located between 19 and 52 miles from the digital transmitters. Any one have any comments or suggestions?

At the time I thought the most distant digital transmitter was 52 miles away. I didn’t realize that the Holiday transmitter is almost 80 miles away. I guess I’m going to have to reassess my approach.

Your Blonger-Tongue antenna may turn out to be my only choice, but while not the ugliest antenna I’ve ever seen, it still won’t win any beauty contests. :D I also have other concerns. I really don’t want to mount a collection of antennas outside. A dish for satellite, a Blonder-Tongue for CBS and an third antenna for all the other stations.

In addition, regardless of whatever approach I take to receiving OTA stations, I might not be able to conveniently route those OTA signals to other HD receivers in the house. My last HD dish had a multiswitch mounted on the back. This switch had an input for the OTA antenna and it integrated the OTA signal with all four satellite outputs. However, the new triple LNB dishes have the multiswitch as an integral part of the triple LNB assembly and this assembly does not have a input for an OTA antenna. Consequently, I am forced to either use diplexers to get the signal to other HD receivers, or run dedicated runs of coax to each receiver.

If I were to mount an OTA antenna outside, I’d be attaching it to the dish mast. That would put the antenna at about 30 feet. Do you have any words of wisdom? Thanks.

Larry

I live in the Tampa Bay area and have a few OTA questions. I am a newbie at this so please bear with me.

First of all here are the channels I am trying to receive with their respective coordinates/distances from Antennaweb.org:

Call Sign Network Channel Orientation Distance (miles)
--------- -------- ------- ----------- ----------------
WFLA-DT NBC 7 177° 23.4
WTVT-DT FOX 12 174° 25.2
WTSP-DT CBS 24 275° 27.3
WFTS-DT ABC 29 177° 23.4
WXPX-DT PAX 42 177° 25.0
WEDU-DT PBS 54 177° 23.1
WTTA-DT WB 57 177° 23.4
WTOG-DT UPN 59 177° 23.1
If I were to install an external omnidirectional antenna (such as the CM SmarTENNA or the Winegard MS-2000) will I be able to get good signal strength for these?

Has anyone used these two antennas and what has been their experience? Good/Bad/Indifferent?

If possible, I want to avoid installing an exterior antenna (WAF), instead I would like to do an attic installation. Given that one of these channels (CBS) is on a different heading than all the others, I assume I will have to use two antennas and a join-tenna?

Since my attic space is rather limited, is there a problem of having more than one antenna in close proximity to each other?

And the obvious question, what anntenna(s) would you recommend for an attic installation?
Thanks in advance for any advice.

Originally posted by Mikey_C

[1]If I were to install an external omnidirectional antenna (such as the CM SmarTENNA or the Winegard MS-2000) will I be able to get good signal strength for these?

[2]Has anyone used these two antennas and what has been their experience? Good/Bad/Indifferent?

[3]If possible, I want to avoid installing an exterior antenna (WAF), instead I would like to do an attic installation. Given that one of these channels (CBS) is on a different heading than all the others, I assume I will have to use two antennas and a join-tenna?

[4]Since my attic space is rather limited, is there a problem of having more than one antenna in close proximity to each other?

[5]And the obvious question, what anntenna(s) would you recommend for an attic installation?


1. Omnidirectional antennas are usually poor choices for digital reception for two reasons. First, they are heavily biased for VHF reception, and most digitals are UHF. Second, they have zero resistance to multipath, since they are *designed* to receive signals from all directions. At 20-25 miles, and especially in an attic, you should expect multipath to be a problem.

2. Searching on this forum will yield a large number of results detailing experience with these antennas. Generally, though, response has been poor.

3. If you use two directional antennas, yes, a Join-tenna is recommended. It looks like you have plenty of space between channels for one to work well.

4. Your antennas should be no closer than 2 wavelengths apart. For UHF, this works out to about 3'. For low-VHF, you're looking at about 15 feet minimum.

5. Even with two "high-VHF" stations, I'd recommend a pair of Channel Master 3021s (4-bay bowties.) These fit into tight spaces, should give you great UHF performance and adequate VHF performance, unless you're physically blocked by massive hills (in Florida!?!) or buildings. Combine them with a channel-24 Jointenna and you should be good to go.

Originally posted by sregener
5. Even with two "high-VHF" stations, I'd recommend a pair of Channel Master 3021s (4-bay bowties.) These fit into tight spaces, should give you great UHF performance and adequate VHF performance, unless you're physically blocked by massive hills (in Florida!?!) or buildings. Combine them with a channel-24 Jointenna and you should be good to go. [/B]
Thanks for your reply. I have a follow up question on your recommendation to use two UHF antennas. Couldn't I add a small VHF-only antenna (in addition to the UHF ones) to get the two VHF channels? Is there a problem with having a VHF antenna in close proximity to a UHF antenna? Thanks again.

I think that I have a much easier solution to your issue: Rather than going with 2 UHF antennas, and hope that one will give you channel 7 and 12 (an unlikely proposition at your distance from the transmitters) buy an all-channel antenna, like a Channel Master Crossfire 3679 or a Wade-Delhi VU934SR with the VU8PZ power zoom, and aim that at the stations located at 174-177 degrees, and buy a UHF yagi-type antenna, like a Channel Master 3023 or a 4228, or a Winegard HD9085p, and aim that antenna at WTSP-DT at 275 degrees. Use a Channel Master Join-Tenna model 0585-1 to join the two antennas together. You may need a preamplifier, and if you do, consider a Winegard AP 8275, or a Channel Master Titan 7777. Problem solved, cheaply and permanently: no rotor needed, and the VHF-DT stations are properly dealt with!

That was my original idea, but unfortunately the space in my attic is not big enough for one of the all-channel type antennas. (the CM 3679 is 10' long!). That's why I'm leaning towards using a joined pair of the CM 4228's for the UHF and maybe a Winegard YA-6713 for the VHF.

Actually, that will work just fine, too! The only disadvantage here is dealing with 3 antennas instead of 2.

Originally posted by Mikey_C
Thanks for your reply. I have a follow up question on your recommendation to use two UHF antennas. Couldn't I add a small VHF-only antenna (in addition to the UHF ones) to get the two VHF channels? Is there a problem with having a VHF antenna in close proximity to a UHF antenna?

You could add a VHF antenna, but you would need to filter out the VHF frequencies from the two UHF antennas. You can do that with a Channel Master #0549.

You don't want the VHF antenna very close to the UHF ones. I'd say several feet, to be safe.

And contrary to the other poster's opinion, given Florida topography, I'd expect a VHF signal to reach 20 miles with ease using a UHF antenna. I received a Channel 8 analog station several years ago using a UHF indoor antenna with a perfectly adequate signal for getting a digital lock.

You might want to try the UHF antenna first, and then if it doesn't perform for the VHF stuff, get that after the fact. You should be able to use a set of rabbit ears to good effect for the VHF signals, provided, again, that you're not heavily blocked by buildings or hills.

Isn't a simple coupler bought from RS going to suffice joining feeds from both antennas? Or are there any negatives in doing so?

Originally posted by mallu2u
Isn't a simple coupler bought from RS going to suffice joining feeds from both antennas? Or are there any negatives in doing so?

If you point identical antennas in the same direciton, a simple coupler is adequate. If you point different antennas in the same direction that receive the same frequencies, or if you point two antennas (identical or different) in different directions, a simple coupler isn't going to cut it.

The reason why is simple: multipath. And multipath is the #1 killer of digital reception.

Originally posted by sregener
If you point different antennas in the same direction that receive the same frequencies, or if you point two antennas (identical or different) in different directions, a simple coupler isn't going to cut it.

So even if one of the antennas is pointed only at channel 24 (no other channels at that site) I would still need the Join-Tenna?

Originally posted by sregener
If you point identical antennas in the same direciton, a simple coupler is adequate. If you point different antennas in the same direction that receive the same frequencies, or if you point two antennas (identical or different) in different directions, a simple coupler isn't going to cut it.

The reason why is simple: multipath. And multipath is the #1 killer of digital reception.

Thanks!. Did not know this earlier.

Originally posted by Mikey_C
So even if one of the antennas is pointed only at channel 24 (no other channels at that site) I would still need the Join-Tenna?

That's precisely why you'd need a Join-Tenna. One input is for channel 24, the other is for everything else.

Any recommended sites where I can buy one of these Join-Tennas?

You should be able to buy it locally,
Dow Electronics
8603 Adamo Drive
Tampa, FL 33619
Phone: (800) 627-2900
Phone Number 2: (800) 627-2910


but, if not, try Stark Electronics in Worcester, MA...they will mail-order it to you: you can even pay with PalPal

By the way...I still assert that you will NOT be able to get an adaquite signal on Channels 7 and 12 digital from a distance of 28 miles using a UHF-only antenna! Our WB station in Hartford broadcasts digital on Channel 12, and out ABC broadcasts on channel 10, and neither came in well with a Channel Master 4221 at my house: Channel 12 is only 7 miles away, channel 10 is 28 miles away. I saw NOTHING on channel 10 and lots of pixelization on channel 12. You are MUCH better off using a dedicated VHF yagi if you are looking for VHF-DT! VHF-DT stations typically broadcast about 8db less signal strength than their analog counterparts, and it makes for some strange reception results.

Originally posted by cgorra
You are MUCH better off using a dedicated VHF yagi if you are looking for VHF-DT!

How about using something like an amplified CM StealthTenna or a Winegard Sensar fed through a VHF/UHF separator using just the VHF feed?

Another question about Jointenna, is ChannelMaster the only company that makes something like this or are there other models available from other companies?

Thanks for all the info....this forum is great!

Originally posted by Mikey_C
How about using something like an amplified CM StealthTenna or a Winegard Sensar fed through a VHF/UHF separator using just the VHF feed?

Another question about Jointenna, is ChannelMaster the only company that makes something like this or are there other models available from other companies?


It will be hard to run an amplifier through all those combiners/joiners you have. You're better off with a passive antenna design. You might want to try one of the Radio Shack urban yagi-style antennas. I had one that was only 6' long and squeezed between the rafters okay.

Channel Master makes the best Jointenna. There are probably others out there that are far more expensive (think hundreds of dollars) for specialty deals. But for what you want, CM is the best and most cost effective solution.

Here's what I've come up with as a solution. Is this a good plan or am I out of my mind? Please let me know what you think.

http://mysite.verizon.net/res8gfg5/antenna.jpg

Two things:

1) I don't have a clue how you're going to get power to those preamplifiers. Preamps come in two boxes, an indoor and an outdoor unit. The outdoor unit goes close to the antenna (preferably within 2 feet.) The indoor unit goes as close to the television as possible. The indoor unit injects power into the coax which then powers the outdoor unit. The problem is that jointennas and splitters will NOT pass DC voltage, which is what you need to power the preamplifier. I also suspect that a preamplifier will NOT help you, given how close you are to the broadcasting towers, and quite likely will HARM reception. If you insist on a preamplifier, it should go below the VHF/UHF combiner.

2) If you do go the preamplifier route, move the UHF-only preamp for channel 24 behind the jointenna. And the splitter is redundant there. The Jointenna will have two input jacks and one output jack - one input for Channel 24, one for everything else. The output could then go directly into the VHF/UHF combiner.

1) I don't have a clue how you're going to get power to those preamplifiers. Preamps come in two boxes, an indoor and an outdoor unit. The outdoor unit goes close to the antenna (preferably within 2 feet.) The indoor unit goes as close to the television as possible. The indoor unit injects power into the coax which then powers the outdoor unit. The problem is that jointennas and splitters will NOT pass DC voltage, which is what you need to power the preamplifier.

I want to put all of this INDOORS (in the attic). I assumed that I could put the "indoor" unit right after the "outdoor" unit (See the updated the image below).

I also suspect that a preamplifier will NOT help you, given how close you are to the broadcasting towers, and quite likely will HARM reception. If you insist on a preamplifier, it should go below the VHF/UHF combiner.

I thought of the pre-amps because of all this going into the attic. I remember reading somewhere that putting an antenna in an attic can reduce its ability to pick up a signal by 50% or more...and given that here in Tampa most houses are stucco'd (instead of something like vinyl or wood siding) I assumed it would help.

Here's an updated diagram:
http://mysite.verizon.net/res8gfg5/antenna2.jpg

bump....any comments on my latest diagram?

The preamp has to be located a few feet of cable from the antenna to amplify at the low noise point, after a lot more cable its useless - you would just be amplifying extra noise there.

Originally posted by Mikey_C
I want to put all of this INDOORS (in the attic). I assumed that I could put the "indoor" unit right after the "outdoor" unit (See the updated the image below).

I thought of the pre-amps because of all this going into the attic. I remember reading somewhere that putting an antenna in an attic can reduce its ability to pick up a signal by 50% or more...and given that here in Tampa most houses are stucco'd (instead of something like vinyl or wood siding) I assumed it would help.


It is true that you can place the indoor unit right after the outdoor one, but in that case, you might as well buy a regular amplifier that comes in one box. There would be no difference in placing it after the VHF/UHF combiner. Using multiple amplifiers doesn't really get you better performance.

For digital reception, absolute signal strength is rarely the issue. You need to have a good signal-to-noise ratio for reliable reception. But whether you're 3db above the noise floor or 18db above won't make your picture any better. Amplifiers take what they receive and boost it. However, attics are areas that create a lot of multipath, which means that weak reflections are hitting your antenna. An amplifier will take those weak reflections and make them stronger - probably strong enough to interfere with your primary signal. Yes, being in an attic will cost you a minimum of 50% of the signal (and I hear it's much closer to 100% with stucco) but amplifying a weak signal isn't going to help matters much, if at all.

Honestly, I'd put every effort into doing an outdoor install. I don't understand the aesthetics issue. I have a 54' tower on my property with a 15' antenna on the top. You'd be surprised how few people notice it. I have to point it out to friends. You're probably going to a lot of effort to put this in your attic, and it is unlikely that you'll be happy with the results.

Originally posted by sregener
I don't understand the aesthetics issue. I have a 54' tower on my property with a 15' antenna on the top. You'd be surprised how few people notice it. I have to point it out to friends. You're probably going to a lot of effort to put this in your attic, and it is unlikely that you'll be happy with the results.

In my case its not the aesthetics....its the WAF! :D

Now, assuming I could get that resolved, what type of outdoor antenna are we talking about here....will I still need two antennas (one for 177 degrees and another for 275). Can I put both of them on the same mast? Does it make a difference that Tampa is the lightning capital of the world?

Originally posted by Mikey_C
In my case its not the aesthetics....its the WAF! :D

Now, assuming I could get that resolved, what type of outdoor antenna are we talking about here....will I still need two antennas (one for 177 degrees and another for 275). Can I put both of them on the same mast? Does it make a difference that Tampa is the lightning capital of the world?

The WAF is almost always tied to aesthetics. I'd advise driving around and pointing out the antennas you see. Odds are good she's never noticed them. If you can, show her what bad digital reception looks like - lots of artifacts/dropouts, etc. That has an even lower WAF than an antenna.

If you use a rotor, you only need one antenna. If you want a drop-in, never needs turning system, you'd need two with the Jointenna and such.

A properly grounded antenna is no more attractive for lightning than any other object at similar height. A search of this forum will yield lots of good information on how to ground an antenna properly.

I've driven around most (if not all) of our sub-division and still have not seen an outdoor antenna....I don't know if its because no one is using HD around here...or if they all have the same WAF problem.

Can I put two antennas on the same mast and point them at different directions? Wouldn't they interfere with each other?

What is WAF?

W A F = Wife Acceptance Factor

LOL. Thats the first time I heard this one!

Originally posted by sregener
A properly grounded antenna is no more attractive for lightning than any other object at similar height. It's really less attractive. During the buildup of static charge from storm winds, high clouds take on a positive charge and low clouds a negative charge. Surface areas take on a positive charge and subsurface a negative charge. It's the difference between low cloud charge and surface charge that creates ground strike lightning. The ground system of a building goes deep enough underground that it and metal objects wired to it, like an antenna mast, don't have the same positive charge as surface objects do.

I use a Winegard YA1713 for VHF channels 9 (75 miles) and 12 (10 miles) at about 20 ft up (http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php?photo=8555&size=big&sort=1&cat=500). I've had great results, and the antenna has a relatively small footprint compared to my old CM3020.

What a mast dude! You're way over the roof level as well!

Originally posted by mallu2u
What a mast dude! You're way over the roof level as well!

That's nothing. Check out mine.

Originally posted by sregener
That's nothing. Check out mine.

Great! Now this thread has degraded to a contest over who has the biggest mast...:D

I installed one antenna in the Tampa Bay area, and it was 30 years ago for my grandparents who lived in St. Petersburg Beach, right on the water. 30 years ago, there was no cable Tv there, and my aged grandmother was frustrated at not being able to see her soap operas clearly on their new RCA XL 100 TV! I used a simple broadband uhf-vhf antenna for most of the stations, and a separate antenna for channel 10, a five element yagi, if I remember correctly: They all marveled how terrific their picture was, and I was amazed how easy it was to get a picture in that area: all you needed was a decent antenna! There are probably a lot more stations on the air in Tampa-St. Pete than there were in 1973, but the principle hasn't changed: If you want good reception, you need the right antenna system for the job. You have received a lot of good advice from people here: for Pete's sake, listen to it! It wasn't created in a vacuum! Forget about omni-directional antennas: they are worthless! Get a broadband UHF-VHF antenna, like a Channel Master 3679, a Winegard HD7082P, or a Wade-Dehhi VU933SR with the powerzoom, aim it at your 174-177 degree stations, and use a UHF yagi antenna like a Channel Master 4248 or a Winegard HD9085 for the one station you are looking for at 250 degrees, and use a Join-Tenna to connect the two. Voila, everything clear and simple. If you have a WAF issue, remember that it is much easier to ask forgiveness than it is to ask permission! You will be rewarded with glorious, free HDTV! and your wife will peobably be placated by candy, flowers, or a nice evening out. Don't overthink this one: it really isn't that hard!

Looks like we are going to miss out on the HD olympics here in Tampa. They are going to air them on Pax. WHatever chanel that is. Are we out of luck on HD? Heck, I may not have power anyway..

Good luck in the Tampa/St. Pete area!

Oh, *that* Charley... :D (couldn't resist...). (Yeah, best of luck! May the dishs and OTAs survive!)

Pax has a digital channel (66-1, not sure the "actual" channel), but I don't think its HD.

Umm, what happenend to your NBC, they blow up or something?


Nvmd, just woke up brain not functioning :)

ANyone care to call pax and see if they can pass the HD signal?

Pax airs 4 digital SD channels - and they arent going to give up their God channel .3 or worship channel .4 so they can do HD for the olympics :(

I am not even sure they have the capability for 16:9 HD in their plant.

Well that's a bummer. Especially since the storm is now going to miss us anyway.

Good for you. We (South Lakeland) are now scheduled to get the eye of the damn thing. Since it is a small storm, we can only hope it dissipates real fast. I'm too old for this.

Since I have all three sat. services, I'll post how the various "dishes" weather the storm.

Signing off.

interesting, a category 4 is a small storm to you? you must be tough :)

Originally posted by bgall
interesting, a category 4 is a small storm to you? you must be tough :)

I'm a coward. To clarify, I meant the physical diameter of the storm, particularly the eye is supposed to be smaller than you might expect from a possible cat 5 storm. Therefore the quick dissipation of the eye as it collapses.

The Tampa ABC affiliate I am watching is on the phone with a guy and his family "hunkered down" in his home as the eye passes over.

Hello, and thank you in advance for your guidance.

I've been referred to this forum by greywolf at the Keohi HDTV Forum. I live in VillageWalk, a new development off of Honore Ave. & Palmer Ranch Rd. I have a Samsung HLN570 DLP projection set.

I initially tried Comcast's HDTV offering but decided I could get more content, better quality and an overall lower cost with an OTA DTV/HDTV solution. My problem is choosing an antenna. I could sure use your help.

My preference is for an attic antenna, but I think there may be a number of problems with this approach:

1) CEA recommends a large directional antenna. I have a trussed attic space which will probably not support a 9-14 foot boom. I haven't checked because I don't have a latter big enough to get into the attic crawl space. The family room where the TV is has a 12 foot ceiling.

2) The roofing is concrete barrel tile. That's a lot of material for a signal to penetrate.

3) Attic antennas have as much as 40% of their signal blocked. A sales rep at Sound Advice told me that attic antennas are a 50/50 proposition in Sarasota.

Putting an antenna on the roof also is problematic:

1) My homeowner association (HOA) frowns on roof antennas. I know, I know, the law allows me to install an antenna. But I would prefer not to if possible.

2) My wife refuses to consider such an option given Sarasota's status as lightning capital of the world (except for one other spot in Africa) and the high probability for tropical or hurricane force winds in the area.

I'm interested in purchasing a Samsung SIR-T415, their newest DTV/HDTV tuner. I'm holding off until I'm sure that OTA signals are a viable option.

My current plan is to run a test with a Winegard Sensar II GS2000. I plan to mount it on the rear of the house (faces north) at the roofline (12 feet up) inside the pool cage, which is attached to the house (my wife approves). The Wineguard rep I spoke with today (Derek) recommended this unit over the newer SquareShooter SS-2000. So has Al from Stark Electronics, whom I have also consulted. Does anyone have experience with this antenna?

All suggestions and recommendations are welcome!

Thanks again,

Dan

Dan:

Welcome to the forum. I live very, very close to you. See my earlier posts which describe my setup. I will tell you that, even though Riverview is only 40 miles away, an attic mounted antenna is not reliable all of the time. I have no experience with either of the antennas you are referring to.

Currently I'm using a combination of DirecTV and the attic antenna. I've given up on Holiday, as it's just too far away. I may throw in the towel and pay the $$$ for Comcast's HD lineup. They are, however, lacking NBC, but actually Ft. Myers, off the back of my attic antenna, comes in pretty good.

Sarasota thread merged.

Would anyone care to summarize (preferably kgalbreth since he is the OP) the OTA HD offerings in the Tampa area so we can post it in the first post for reference?

Originally posted by CPanther95
Sarasota thread merged. It might be a good idea to include Sarasota and St. Petersburg in the title for search purposes.

Originally posted by greywolf
It might be a good idea to include Sarasota and St. Petersburg in the title for search purposes.

Under the new format, only the primary Nielsen DMA city is listed in the thread title. However, in the master list of threads sticky, all DMA cities are listed individually.

Then I disagree with a small part of the implementation of the new format. New people doing a title search will often not find their city. Having all the major cities in a DMA shouldn't take up that much room in a title. It's a basically fine idea that could be implemented a bit better.

An acceptable alternative may be to title the sticky note better so it becomes obvious to newbies where to look for their city. Something like "LOOK FOR INFO ABOUT YOUR CITY HERE FIRST". I recently directed a newbie here and he reported a complete lack of success finding information. I've been here for years and had a little trouble finding threads to give him a place to look. Now the Sarasota thread is merged and the title lost and I wouldn't have found it in a title search.

No insult intended to the moderator, but frankly I don't understand the point in merging these threads.

I thought the original poster was very clear in why he started the thread in the first place and why he didn't post in the Tampa thread.

Larry

This isn't the same Tampa thread. There is still a separate Tampa area thread dedicated to BHN issues. The only way for this thread to be of value is to increase the activity and have one single location to route all questions and discussion. 60 or 70 posts in 16 months isn't as active as it probably could be.

As far as locating the thread, all they need to do is check the list of discussion threads. If they can't locate Sarasota or St. Petersburg under the Florida header - well, we can only do so much.

Originally posted by CPanther95
The only way for this thread to be of value is to increase the activity and have one single location to route all questions and discussion. 60 or 70 posts in 16 months isn't as active as it probably could be.


Hi,

I know that you meant well, but with all due respect I fear you've missed a very key point. You are under the impression that folks living in Sarasota are trying to get the Tampa offerings.

Originally posted by CPanther95

Would anyone care to summarize (preferably kgalbreth since he is the OP) the OTA HD offerings in the Tampa area so we can post it in the first post for reference?

However, what the Sarasota folks really want is to get the most amount of OTA HD as possible, regardless of source. As it turns out many of us have better luck pulling in OTA HD from Fort Myers.

I realize that there hasn't been a lot of activity on the Sarasota thread, but the issue isn't activity, its relevance. Don't you see that one response from a Sarasotian, who like me is 80 miles from a Tampa transmitter, is going to be a lot more relevant than 10 responses from folks in Tampa who are only 5 miles away?

Regards,

Larry

If the Tampa/St. Petersburg/Sarasota DMA isn't the target market, there's also a thread for the Fort Myers/Naples DMA located here:

Fort Myers, FL - HDTV (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4422703#post4422703)

Thanks for the link, but the original thread was started to learn what are folks in SARASOTA doing to get OTA HD. Its not about what are Tampa folks or Fort Myers folks doing to receive Tampa or Fort Myers transmitters.

Larry

Originally posted by ekehr
Nice to have local group.
My equipment:
HDTV Samsung HLM507W DLP with SRT165 tuner
HDTV Samsung 30" CRT with SRT151 tuner
CM4228 8bay bowtie rooftop antenna with rotator
CM7777 distribution amp
Have no problem pulling all Tampa, Hudson, Ft Myers stations

Are you really pulling in the VHF channels (8.1, 10.1 and 12.1) with your UHF antenna?

For Larry Chanin,

Re: Post 33 on the Sensor II installation you planned...How did it work out?

Thanks,

Dan

Originally posted by djmorris
For Larry Chanin,

Re: Post 33 on the Sensor II installation you planned...How did it work out?

Thanks,

Dan

Hi Dan,

I've been in holding pattern for a while. It was only recently that I obtained an HD TiVo that works to connect the outside antenna to. I was on a very long multi-month waiting list for the TiVo. Then when it finally arrived it failed in two days. Then I was jerked around by my retailer for about three more weeks before they referred the problem to DIRECTV. Then it took an other week to get the replacement. Knock wood, the replacement has been working.

In addition, I'm in the midst of building a home theater and I've been sort of obsessed with that. I think that maybe in a month or so I'll pursue an outside antenna. I was hoping to that someone local would respond to my question about antennas before I proceed, but so far I haven't received any feedback to my approach.

Larry

I live in Bradenton and had Direct TV do my install with the package that I got discounted for being a long time customer. They sent me a Samsung SIR-TS360 and an amplified circular OTA antenna (think it was a Winegard) that looks like a sonar antenna you would find on a boat. It works great! I didn't think I would be able to pick up CBS out of St. Pete but it is fine! I am glad they went up on my roof and not me. Well worth the price! I am getting way more than BHN had available! If anyone has any reception questions email me or PM me.
Good luck!
Rob

Originally posted by LarryChanin
Hi Dan,

I was hoping to that someone local would respond to my question about antennas before I proceed, but so far I haven't received any feedback to my approach.

Larry

Thanks for writing back, Larry. Yes, I was hoping for some feedback on my approach, too. Oh well. This afternoon I'm going to head off to Sound Advice to see if they have any.:D I'm going to run my Sensar scenario by them and see if they laugh. Good luck with your home theater.

Dan

Just back from my meeting with Paul Dushane of Sound Advice on the Trail. I have good news and bad news.

The good news is that the preferred antenna used by Sound Advice for their DTV/HDTV installations is the Winegard Sensor II GS2000. It is mounted on a four foot pole to the peak of the house. Installation is about $125 and they charge $125 for the antenna.

The bad news is for me and anyone else that has been trying to avoid a roof mounted antenna. Convincing my wife will be tough!

I've found that chocolate and roses work great...and if that fails...jewelry does the trick. :D

Hi Guys,
I live in Sarasota and I have a sensor2, looks like a T on top of my pole, installed and I get everything from Tampa stations to ch 40 and some Ft. Meyers stations. I have had it connected to a MyHD card in an HTPC and now I am using a VOOM box and love it. It integrates all my local channels into the guide and I even get all the sub channels NO PROBLEMS at all.
I love it. Ask any questions you want I am going out of town tomorrow but will check in and see if you posted anything. By the way I had Hi-Tech on Bee Ridge install my antenna and pole.
Hope this helps,
GeoffQ

Originally posted by GeoffQ
Hi Guys,
I live in Sarasota and I have a sensor2, looks like a T on top of my pole, installed and I get everything from Tampa stations to ch 40 and some Ft. Meyers stations. GeoffQ

Hi Geoff,

Thanks for the information on your successful installation. A grouping of questions if you don't mind:

1) Did you buy the antenna from High Tech Electronics?
2) Why did you choose High Tech? Did you talk to other vendors?
3) How long is the pole used to mount the Sensor II?
4) Are you using a rotor?
5) What Ft. Meyers stations are you receiving?
6) What type of roofing materials do you have--asphalt shingles, tile, tin...?

Thanks!

Dan

Originally posted by GeoffQ
Hi Guys,
I live in Sarasota and I have a sensor2, looks like a T on top of my pole, installed and I get everything from Tampa stations to ch 40 and some Ft. Meyers stations. I have had it connected to a MyHD card in an HTPC and now I am using a VOOM box and love it. It integrates all my local channels into the guide and I even get all the sub channels NO PROBLEMS at all.
I love it. Ask any questions you want I am going out of town tomorrow but will check in and see if you posted anything. By the way I had Hi-Tech on Bee Ridge install my antenna and pole.
Hope this helps,
GeoffQ

Hi Geoff,

It's very kind of you to share your experiences.

In a previous posting I believe you said you have your antenna on a 30 foot pole. Is the pole mounted on the house or ground?

Can you give us an idea of what part of Sarasota county you're located?

Are you running a separate coax feed from your Sensar to your VOOM receiver, or are you using a diplexer to attach it to an existing satellite coax feed?

Thanks again.

Larry

Geoff,

One more question, if I may. Do you recall the name of the installer? Al at High Tech Electronics told me that he uses an independent contractor for installation work.

I've already got a Sensar II on order and need a reputable installer. Thanks.

Dan

Dan:

You've got a PM from me.

I'm beginning to have buyers remorse over the Sensar II I ordered and it hasn't even arrived yet. I was talking with an installer from Satellite Services in Sarasota. He told me he's had good luck with an unnamed ChannelMaster antenna mounted in attics. I know it wasn't the Sensar II GS2000. Now I'm thinking I would be better off with a CM 4248 or a CM4228 in the attic. In each case, I'd use a CM7777 pre-amp. Perhaps the CN 4228 would make it easier to pull in channel 10.1 because it's not so directional.

Guidance, please!!!!

Dan

Dan:

You are not going to have good luck with ANYTHING in the attic for 10.1. You must go outdoors to have any shot at their tower which is 70 miles away. Each installer, I'm sure, has their own opinions, and alot has to do with what's in between your antenna and the transmitters. You will just have to be prepared to experiment with all possibilities. It can prove to be very frustrating. I know, as I've been fooling with HDTV reception in this area for at least 4 years now.

Originally posted by djmorris
I'm beginning to have buyers remorse over the Sensar II I ordered and it hasn't even arrived yet. I was talking with an installer from Satellite Services in Sarasota. He told me he's had good luck with an unnamed ChannelMaster antenna mounted in attics. I know it wasn't the Sensar II GS2000. Now I'm thinking I would be better off with a CM 4248 or a CM4228 in the attic. In each case, I'd use a CM7777 pre-amp. Perhaps the CN 4228 would make it easier to pull in channel 10.1 because it's not so directional.

Guidance, please!!!!

Dan

Hi Dan,

I'm inclined to agree with Ron. I believe you lose half your signal strength when you put the antenna in the attic. In our last home I put a Channel Master 4248 in the attic along with a Winegard AP4800 preamp. My reception was just so-so. The antenna is so long that I had trouble just getting it into the attic let alone trying to put it on a rotor.

Larry

Larry,

No doubt, putting an antenna in the atic is not preferred. BUT, Ron has had good success with an antenna in his attic with the exception of channel 10.1. Since he lives a stone's throw away, I have hope that the "attic scenario" may work.

I guess the only thing to do is try it.

I borrowed my neighbor's 8' ladder and took a look in my attic. I had a hard time seeing the north wall with all of the silver foiled HVAC equipment and ductwork. Even though there is space in the higher reaches of the attic for an antenna, I think it would be terribly difficult to mount the unit because of the truss structure. There's more wood up there than at Home Depot. What makes it especially difficult is all of the recessed lighting cans poking up through the insulation. It would be hard to put down some plywood without conceivably causing some damage.

The Winegard GS2000 came today. Once the tuner arrives, I'll run an attic test (although I don't expect much) and an outdoor test off the roof. The good news is that the WAF for a mounted roof implementation is improving over time. As obstacles appear, my wife is taking a reasoned approach to finding a workable solution.

Originally posted by Ron Tobin
Dan:

You are not going to have good luck with ANYTHING in the attic for 10.1.

Funny thing you'll appreciate, Ron. I was looking at checkhd.com, a site link off of the FCC's DTV site dtv.gov, and I ran a check on available DTV stations for my address. Guess what, no 10.1 at all. Forget the attic, forget mounting a Sensar II on the roof. No, not even a violet "large directional antenna with pre-amp" shows success according to this site! I guess I'll be watching CSI in analog for a while.

Dan

Ron,

More on 10.1. I just learned that WTSP-DT is now transmitting on channel 24. Take a look at http://www.tampabays10.com/inside10/dtv.asp And get a load of the DTV reception tips. Basically, bend over backwards to get our signal.

Originally posted by djmorris
Ron,

More on 10.1. I just learned that WTSP-DT is now transmitting on channel 24. Take a look at http://www.tampabays10.com/inside10/dtv.asp And get a load of the DTV reception tips. Basically, bend over backwards to get our signal.

Dan:

Nice drawing, but this is old news. WTSP-DT has ALWAYS been broadcasting on digital 24.

I'm making some antenna adjustments today and, if they work, I'll let you know what I did. Send me a PM with you email address and phone number. No need to clutter the forum with stuff that just relates to you and me.

Originally posted by Ron Tobin

I'm making some antenna adjustments today and, if they work, I'll let you know what I did. Send me a PM with you email address and phone number. No need to clutter the forum with stuff that just relates to you and me.

Hi Ron,

Despite the relabeling of this thread, it was established to share reception experiences from folks in the Sarasota area. So if you wouldn't mind could you please publically share your findings with others living in the area?

Thanks very much.

Larry

Larry:

Sure, but I'm in the middle of the project and will report my results when complete and, hopefully, I have some improvements to report. Should be finished later today.

Sorry Guys,
I have been out of town,

Originally posted by djmorris
Hi Geoff,

Thanks for the information on your successful installation. A grouping of questions if you don't mind:

1) Did you buy the antenna from High Tech Electronics? Yes
2) Why did you choose High Tech? Did you talk to other vendors? The only ones I could find who had any experience
3) How long is the pole used to mount the Sensor II? 30 ft.
4) Are you using a rotor? No.
5) What Ft. Meyers stations are you receiving? 15 but not with Voom
6) What type of roofing materials do you have--asphalt shingles, tile, tin...? Asphalt shingles.

Thanks!

Dan

The installer was Al's son I can't remember his name but he was very good. I thought he still worked for him.

The pole is mounted in the ground going up the N side of the house.

I live in the Bee Ridge and 75 area of Sarasota.

I am running a separate coax to the voom receiver which is the only way to go IMHO.

I will be in town for a while again so if you have any other questions just let me know.
GeoffQ

Originally posted by LarryChanin
Despite the relabeling of this thread, it was established to share reception experiences from folks in the Sarasota area. So if you wouldn't mind could you please publically share your findings with others living in the area?

Here's what I did. Nothing elaborate but an improvement.

My previous setup was a large (don't remember how many elements) Radio Shack UHF/VHF antenna in the attic, with a 28db amp. I got the Tampa stations OK, but there were times when I would get drops on the VHF stations - NBC and FOX. Reception of digital channel 40 is horrible and 10 is non-existent with the attic antenna. I, at one time, had a Blonder Tongue UHF antenna for channel 24, aimed at Holiday and amplified, but it was not consistent, so I removed it a few months ago. BTW, I used a Jointenna to combine both antennas down the feedline.

Today, I installed a Winegard Senser GS2200. It's probably the same as the GS2000, but with a production date of 5/04. I installed it outdoors on the same pole I previously had my channel 24 antenna. The height is only 15 feet, but it's in the back of my house, above the pool cage, out in the clear, and not visible, except by my neighbors on my left and right. I also decided to put a Channel Master rotor on the installation, so that I can fine tune the antenna positioning. While the results are not dramatic, the Tampa stations give me a solid good signal with the Winegard antenna. Still having problems with channel 40 (digital 52). I believe that, although they are in Parrish, that they are no where near full power.

Channel 10 (digital 24) is really not much better, no matter where I point the antenna. The improvements are that I now get WUSF (digital 34), and if I swing the antenna around toward Ft. Myers, I can get several of their stations that I previously had not received. There's really no advantage, though, since it duplicates Tampa broadcasts.

My primary receiver is the Hughes HD Tivo. My signal levels for Tampa are around 90. It's through a splitter, a surge protector, yet by eliminating them, the signal is the same. My other receiver, which is not primary, is the Hughes E86. That receiver reports the Tampa stations at 100.

I am not interested in raising my antenna height, but if anyone has any suggestions for improvement, including using some other antenna, since I have a rotor, please share your thoughts.

Dan, for your purposes, if you place the Winegard Senser GS2000 in a good spot, you should get adequate results from Tampa. Forget CBS. We're too far away to get it without a huge antenna.

I get channel 10(24) very well and I get no drops on the VHF channels. Granted my pole is 30ft it is in the back of the house and is too tall for many people to notice. I ask everyone that comes over once they are in the house if they noticed the antenna an no one has yet. You all should try it. It is so tall it is more unnoticeable. It is much better than no reception or in out on others.
GeoffQ

Geoff:

Are you in one of the newer deed restricted communities? Despite what the FCC says you are allowed to do, i.e., number of feet above roof line, I certainly don't want to be the only one in my community with a noticeable antenna. Anything that I have seen in my community is very low profile. Consequently, there's a need to work with the least obvious.

Just wondering. Where's your 30 foot antenna mounted to, and where is it on your property?

Originally posted by Ron Tobin


Today, I installed a Winegard Senser GS2200. It's probably the same as the GS2000, but with a production date of 5/04. I installed it outdoors on the same pole I previously had my channel 24 antenna. The height is only 15 feet, but it's in the back of my house, above the pool cage, out in the clear, and not visible, except by my neighbors on my left and right.

Still having problems with channel 40 (digital 52). Channel 10 (digital 24) is really not much better, no matter where I point the antenna.

... if I swing the antenna around toward Ft. Myers, I can get several of their stations that I previously had not received. There's really no advantage, though, since it duplicates Tampa broadcasts.

I am not interested in raising my antenna height, but if anyone has any suggestions for improvement, including using some other antenna, since I have a rotor, please share your thoughts.

Dan, for your purposes, if you place the Winegard Senser GS2000 in a good spot, you should get adequate results from Tampa. Forget CBS. We're too far away to get it without a huge antenna.


Ron,

Congratulations on your new installation! This is really exciting stuff.

According to its promo flyer, the Winegard Sensar III (GS2200) improves on the Sensar II (GS2000) with a redesigned head and a strengthened wing. http://www.winegard.com/offair/pdf/WC-810.pdf
What surprised me is that the average gain ratings for the new unit are lower than for the Sensar II it replaces. They claim a 12 dB gain for UHF and VHF for the III and 15.5 dB VHF and 19.5 dB UHF for the II. Do you think that more gain from a pre-amp could improve your channel 10 experience? If so, could you swap the GS2200 for a GS1100 (unamplified) and use a Winegard AP8275 to get a 28 dB gain for UHF and VHF?

I'm trying to visualize the mast installation. Is it attached to the pool cage in any way? How much does this installation increase the coax lead distance over your previous attic installation?

Would you please expand on the nature of the difficulty you are experiencing with Channel 10 using the GS2200?

Are you receiving WINK, the CBS affiliate in Ft. Myers?

Originally posted by Ron Tobin
Geoff:

Are you in one of the newer deed restricted communities? Despite what the FCC says you are allowed to do, i.e., number of feet above roof line, I certainly don't want to be the only one in my community with a noticeable antenna. Anything that I have seen in my community is very low profile. Consequently, there's a need to work with the least obvious.


Ron,

Can you give us examples of the other low profile installations in Turtle Rock? I'm curious about whether your HOA has said anything about your installation or the others you mention.

Dan

Originally posted by GeoffQ
I get channel 10(24) very well and I get no drops on the VHF channels. Granted my pole is 30ft it is in the back of the house and is too tall for many people to notice.

Geoff,

Thanks for writing back. How high above your roofline does this 30 foot pole place your Sensar II GS2000?

Thanks,

Dan

Ron, Geoff, Larry and other interested parties,

I sent an email last evening to Derek Justman, Antenna Product Engineer for the Winegard Company. My note follows:

A friend of mine, Ron, recently completed installing a Sensar III
GS2200 on a 15-foot pole next to his home. A second friend, Geoff,
just installed a Sensar II GS2000A on a 30- foot pole next to his
home. I recently purchased, but have not yet installed, a Sensar II
GS2000A, which I am planning to install on a four-foot mast on the
peak of my roof. I estimate that the antenna will be about 19 feet in the air.

We live within a few miles of each other in Sarasota, FL. Our goal is
to receive the Tampa DTV stations. The most difficult station to
receive is 10.1 (digital 24), the CBS affiliate WTSP-DT.

Geoff has reported no problems. He is not using a rotor. Ron is using
a rotor but cannot pull in 10.1. Do you believe the reason for Ron's
difficulty is the height of his mast or the reduced gain of the GS2200
compared to the GS2000A? The average gain for the GS2200 is 12 dB VHF
and UHF while the GS2000A is 15.5 dB VHF and 19.5 dB UHF. How
significant is this difference?

Would Ron be better off with a Sensar II? Could he install an
unamplified GS1100 and fit it with an AP-8275 for 28 dB of UHF and VHF
gain? Might this solve his problem?

Derek's reply came this morning:

"First off all, understand that digital 24 is transmitting at a near polar opposite of the other DTV stations in your area. What may be happening is that the GS2000A that you have may have stronger backlobe reception for 24 than the GS2200. I really do not believe the amp difference is significant. Also, for difficult UHF DTV stations, sometimes the right height of the antenna will make a difference -- when a station is weak, the reception is better on such channels at different heights. In addition, the signal strength varies from one neighborgood to another. Ron may just simply be in a neighborhood where 10.1 coverage is spotty.

To see if this is the case, you can visit a new Web site http://www.checkhd.com/ click "antennas", and submit the address of your friends. Check the reception rating (poor, good, excellent) of 10.1 by clicking on the "light green" color map, since that would be the map of an amplified multidirectional antenna."

I just sent another note off to Derek asking him to comment on the idea of using a GS1100 with an AP8275. I'll keep you posted.

Meanwhile, my installation is on hold until the Samsung SIR-T451 tuner I ordered shows up. It's currently on backorder at Crutchfield.

Dan

Dan, you might want to edit your post to take the comma out of the checkhd link.

Originally posted by greywolf
Dan, you might want to edit your post to take the comma out of the checkhd link.

Edit completed. Thanks.

Originally posted by djmorris
Ron may just simply be in a neighborhood where 10.1 coverage is spotty.

Dan:

I suppose that because 10.1(24) is so far away, and doesn't even show on the charts for our zip code, that it's Geoff's luck that he can receive it, and we'll just have to wait for WINK to build their digital station, which I understand is a year or more away.

I checked the chart on the link provided by Winegard, and the reception quality for our area, using the light green chart, are reported fairly accurately. What I mean by that, is that they rate the two VHF stations (8.1 and 13.1) as "poor", yet I get a quality rating of over 90 on my HD Tivo, and 100 on my E86. In fact they are comparable to WEDU, WFTS, and several other UHF stations, reported as "excellent" out of Riverview. On the other hand, when I turn my antenna toward Ft. Myers, I wouldn't characterize them as "excellent", however they are solid. In addition, atmospheric conditions seem to come in to play for Ft. Myers, since night time signal strength is stronger than in the day time.

My antenna pole is on a cement pad, about 5 feet away from the pool cage, and secured with a bracket at the faccia board. The 15 foot height (actually it's probably about 18 feet) clears the pool cage.

As for neighborhood restrictions, etc., our covenants require approval for a satellite dish. I know of no one that has gotten approval. My satellite dish is on the side of my house, shielded by the back of my third car garage, and can't be seen, except by a neighbor on one side. There are so many dishes in my neighborhood, mounted in any place that faces the south west. I've seen them in the front of houses, on roofs, and just about any other imaginable place. As far as antennas, I've only seen a few of them. But I'm certain that there are others, not noticeable from the street, like mine. It's just that I've only noticed a few, and none very high. So while that FCC says you can go, I believe, some distance above your roof line, I have yet to see it in my neighborhood.

How about in Village Walk? What have you observed?

Originally posted by Ron Tobin


How about in Village Walk? What have you observed?

VillageWalk covenants require approval for all antennas. This doesn't mean that they are restricted. I received approval for a satellite dish when I first moved in. At the time, I was planning to reinstall DISH service from my prior home. The approval I received required the dish to be mounted on a pole in a flower bed with plant material forming a shield so the antenna wouldn't be very visible.

There are not a lot of satellite dishes here and I don't believe I've seen a single antenna. Most of the satellite installations I've seen are at variance with approved installation instructions. One very visible installation on the side of a house has been there for a year, so the HOA hasn't exactly been falling over itself to police its regulations.

On Monday I delivered my written request to install a Sensar II on a four foot mast to the peak of my roof. It will be situated on the northern end of the ridge. It will be barely visible from the front of the house. My northerly neighbors will see it, but they are buffered by a small lake. The initial reaction I've received to the petition is surprise at how small the antenna is. I think most expectations is to see elements sticking out all over a ten foot boom. The letter to the HOA explained my desire to receive DTV and yet preserve the good taste and harmony of the community. The committee meets again on November 2. Wish me luck!

Dan

Originally posted by djmorris


I just sent another note off to Derek asking him to comment on the idea of using a GS1100 with an AP8275. I'll keep you posted.

Here is Derek's response:

"An amplifier is only intended to offset signal loss from the antenna to the tuner through cables and splitters. It cannot extend the range of the antenna, nor will it improve the picture quality that the antenna collects. So unless you are 50 miles away from all transmitters and running 200 feet of cable, the AP-8275 is not worth it; in addition, that amp can only take less antenna signal than the amp used in the GS2000, so using the AP-8275, even with the nonamplified antenna in areas like yours may only make reception worse."

Originally posted by djmorris
On Monday I delivered my written request to install a Sensar II on a four foot mast to the peak of my roof. It will be situated on the northern end of the ridge. It will be barely visible from the front of the house.Dan

What kind of roof design do you have and what is your roofing material? Are they tiles?

I'm having difficulty visualizing what you are trying to do. If you have a hip roof, as I do, there are various peaks. Are you contemplating installing it at the highest peak, and where is that peak located? How would you route the cable into your house?

You may have mentioned this in a prior post, but what elevation off the ground do you anticipate to achieve with you 4 foot pole at the peak? It seems like elevation is the key for getting 10.1 (24).

I've given up on receiving a reliable signal from them. I'm going to rely on whichever comes first -- WINK or DirecTV's delivery of local HD stations in 2005 or whenever. At least I have all the other networks coming in with a solid signal. For instance, I've been watching the MLB playoffs on 13.1 with my new antenna, with not a single loss of signal. That had not been the case with my attic antenna, since 13.1 is broadcast, digitally, on a VHF channel, which antenna web defines as "poor".

Originally posted by djmorris
............. in addition, that amp can only take less antenna signal than the amp used in the GS2000, so using the AP-8275, even with the nonamplified antenna in areas like yours may only make reception worse."

That makes alot of sense, because my attic attenna was getting a marginal signal by being blocked from roofing tiles and other attic and roof material. So my 28db amp was just amplifing a lousy signal. In fact, I had to put an attenuator on the line to my HD Tivo, because the amp was overloading the tuner.

Ron,

I also have a hip roof. A hip roof, as I understand its definition, is a gable roof with the ends brought together at the same pitch as the rest of the roof. The resulting roof peak is really a ridge that runs along the top center of the house. My home, and its roof ridge, is oriented along the north-south compass line. I plan to have the antenna mounted as far north as practicable on the ridge. Since the front of my home faces south, the antenna and mast shouldn't be very visible from the front street. I think a viewer will see the antenna itself, but very little of the mast, depending on where they are standing.

The roofing material is barreled concrete tile. I'll be relying on a professional to make the installation. My expectation is that the installer will mount the mast on the ridge using a carrot shaped (^) plate drilled through a tile and underlying wood. It will be fastened to a supporting bracket inside the roof. Now, it's entirely possible that the installer will recommend a different approach.

The downlead would be fished through a roofing tile into the attic. There is a tube for wiring that runs down the inside of the wall behind my television and tuner. I've used it in the past to run speaker wiring for a Dolby 6.1 setup in the family room. It will serve to bring the downlead to the Belkin surge suppressor and then to the tuner.

I estimate that the total elevation will be 20.5 feet.

Originally posted by djmorris
Since the front of my home faces south, the antenna and mast shouldn't be very visible from the front street. I think a viewer will see the antenna itself, but very little of the mast, depending on where they are standing.


The front of my house faces the Southeast, hence I had to place my antenna in the rear of the house.

Your installation, then, will be similar to mine, as far as elevation. And since we are in the same area of town, our reception results should be equal, with the exception of one tuner's ability vs. another. My E86 picks up weak signals better than my HD Tivo.

I once was contacted by someone else in Village Walk who asked about my attic installation. He told me he was reluctant to put up any antenna in his rear because with the village concept, neighbors can walk in the rear of your property.

I have to admit that I've never been through your community so can't visualize what that person was trying to describe.

Ron,

I'll be interested to see what kind of sensitivity my tuner has.

Most of the homes in VillageWalk are not on the "Walk" that weaves its way along the shorelines of the manmade lakes and ponds here. The ones that do have the walk behing their pool cages. My neighbor is on the Walk and it has its advantages and disadvantages. On the positive side, there is a good water view. On the negative side, privacy on the lanai or in the pool is limited when neighbors and strangers stroll by. Having the Walk behing the cage also limits the size of the backyard. It effectively ends just beyond the planting bed behind the pool cage. This is probably what your other contact here was referring to.

Our home backs to a lake, but the Walk does not run along its shore. There is probably 15 feet from the back of the cage to the waterline.

Dan

I live in Englewood Isles(north end of Englewood) Will be getting a Mits 62725 shortly and am deciding on a set up for OTA reception and would welcome comment.

Seems the best thing is to get FOX, NBC, PBS, and ABC out of Fort Myers and try to get CBS from Tampa until WINK finally gets on air. Has anyone in south Venice or north Englewood been successful in getting a adequate signal from WTSP(CBS) Tampa? Of course I can always hook up with cable for CBS until WINK gets on air.

Planning for now to get a Channel Master CM3023 UHF antenna. Realize that I have to add a VHF capability when WINK gets going. Comments welcome on this choice also.

As you can read in this thread, CBS from Holiday is real tough to get, unless you have height and a large antenna. At least that's our experience in South Sarasota, so I would imagine Englewood will be even tougher. You just have to try it and see what you get.

Good luck.

You may all know about this but since some mention has been made about deed restrictions it might be good if you are faced with that problem to read this FCC document which contains detailed rules about OTA and satellite antennas. http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

While there are some exceptions and limits, in part the FCC rule says:

"The rule prohibits most restrictions that: (1) unreasonably delay or prevent installation, maintenance or use; (2) unreasonably increase the cost of installation, maintenance or use; or (3) preclude reception of an acceptable quality signal."

rjg41,

Welcome back to the forum. Why did you choose a Mitsubishi tuner? As far as reaching Tampa, what does checkhd.com say about your chances? How high will you be mounting your antenna?

Dan

DJ, you might have me confused with someone else as I have been primarily in a monitoring mode and have posted almost nothing up till now.

Checkhd.com indicates I am out of luck. No big deal, I'll just go with cable for CBS until WINK gets on line. It gets me a few extra cable channels so I am not just paying for CBS.

As for the Mitsubishi, the tuner is an intergrated tuner in the new DLP 62725 set.

Tomorrow is the day. UPS will be delivering the Samsung SIR-T451 I ordered. The original order was placed with Crutchfield. Fine folks but without any stock on this item until the end of the year. Duh. I waited two weeks, called for status and got the bad news. After getting the usual runaround at Circuit City (we have it, we don't, we have it....) I placed an order with JR.com in NYC. No fooling' around here. The order was filled the day I placed it. Granted, I had to pay an extra $9 for UPS delivery but I'm not complaining.

I'm curious to see what this fifth generation tuner can do. First, I'll hook it up to the cable feed (standard Comcast analog service) to see if there is any bleed-over and I can snag WPST-DT (this tuner is QAM capable). Digital service customers get this station if they subscribe to the HDTV package. I'll let you know what happens.

Secondly, I'm waiting on the ruling from the VillageWalk HOA on my request to install a roof antenna. They meet on 11/2. I suggested that my Winegard Sensar II be considered as the standard for a DTV installation in the development. It's small, not "antenna-looking," and has been proven to pull in even difficult stations if mounted four feet above the roof here in Sarasota.

Wish me luck.

Dan

Dan, how did you make out with your HOA?

If they turned you down or gave you unreasonable requirements I hope for their sake they consulted with their attorney. A few months back our HOA tried to get someone to remove a DTV dish. Since I am a board member I brought them a copy of the FCC web pages and suggested they need to investigate the matter further before trying to do anything. Apparently a letter had already been written to the homeowner. Our president consulted our attorney and at the next meeting announced that he had sent another letter to the homeowner apologizing for the first letter.

Further, you probably already know, but in Florida, in a dispute with a HOA it is my understanding that the losing party pays everybody's attorneys' fees. A risk for you but in this case I think a bigger risk for them.

rjg41,

I won't hear from the HOA until after November 2 when they next meet.

I do appreciate the information about what happened with your HOA. It's always good to have knowledge about how other HOAs approach aerial antenna/satellite installations. You certainly got my attention on potential legal exposure. Right now I'll just hope that the HOA doesn't turn me down.

I installed the tuner yesterday when it arrived and hooked-it up to the cable system. A bunch of channels popped-in that have no great value for me... ESPN News, Nickelodeon, and a movie channel among them. What I was hoping for was CBS Tampa, but the tuner seemed to be blocked from going beyond channel 106. WTSP is on 182.

Tonight I ran a trial with the Sensar II for OTA reception. I supported the plastic body of the antenna across the backs of two chairs out by the pool, about three feet off the deck. The first test was without the preamp. Nothing. When I connected the preamp it pulled in WXPX (PAX), WEDU (PBS), WWOR (Ind.), WFLA (NBC), WTOG (Ind.), WTTA (WB) and WFTS (ABC). FOX HD was pixelated and there was no sign of WWSB, the local ABC station, WUSF or WTSP (CBS). FOX came in well when I elevated the antenna. I was really impressed. Imagine what I might get with this thing on the roof!

I should hear from the HOA by the end of next week. If I'm lucky, I'll have the antenna mounted (in some fashion) in two weeks.

Dan

Hi Guys,
Sorry for the delay in responding,

Ron,
I live in Colonial Gables so not new.

Dan,
It is about 20 ft above the roof line which IMHO the higher the better so no one will notice it. People's eye's just don't go up that far.

When I was going to install my antenna I talked with the guys at High Tech a lot and I was only wanting to install a 20ft pole but they talked me into the 30ft one saying that the higher the antenna sat the better reception was. Being as I really wanted Ch. 10 for football and PrimeTime Shows I said OK. I am so glad I did after hearing the problems that you all are having. All my NFL in HDTV this season and the end of last has been FANTASTIC.

I originally tested my reception with a Terk 55 just moving around my house and all I could receive was 8 and 28, which was fine to show the wife what we could have with a better set up.

My pole is along the side of the house as my driveway and you look right at it as you drive in, and still nobody notices the antenna because it is so high up so two positives better reception and more out of site. The higher the better IMHO.

HTH just my .02 cents.

GeoffQ

P.S. Get off the pot and put up a high pole everyone will have one soon as they are the only way to get good reception of the channels we all want. Cable will never catch up, and OTA for the networks is better than cable transmission of them anyway. You will just be the first to have it as you are with the rest of your Home Theatre. You will thank me later while you are watching that wonderful HDTV.

Geoff,

The FCC's OTARD Rule allows members of neighborhood associations to put up outside antennas for reception of broadcast TV signals as long as those antennas are not located in common areas and are no more than 12 feet in height. Not having read the ruling, my assumption is that this means the mast cannot be more than 12 feet higher than the roofline.

With a four foot mast on my roof the total height of the installation should be about 20-21 feet from the ground. I'm expecting this to be sufficient.

Are the bylaws in Colonial Gables silent on aerial antenna installations?

Regards,

Dan

News flash! My HOA may actually be planning to give me an official OK to install a rooftop antenna!

I didn't expect this. On 11/2 the HOA denied my petition to install a roof antenna. After a couple days of trying, I spoke with our HOA's President personally and made my case. Our development, VillageWalk, is still under construction by DiVosta, so they ARE the HOA. We had a nice chat. It turns out he didn't really read my petition, just dismissed it out of hand because I wanted to mount an antenna more than three feet high. Why is it that everyone thinks exclusively in terms of satellite antennas? Anyhow, I educated him a little on DTV and how I had to have line of sight, just like a satellite user. It's interesting...he knew about OTARD but didn't want to have to admit he had no choice but to let me install an antenna. The good news is that he's going to save face by re-examining my petition and reviewing it with DiVosta's general counsel. Corporate types. You would think I wanted to install a missile silo. Since the Architectural Control Committee (ACC) is three DiVosta guys and a quorum is only two members, I believe I'll get my official OK from the HOA.

Just to give myself some insurance, I submitted an appeal of the ACC ruling to the Board of Directors of the HOA (again, all DiVosta VPs). I sent them the FCC Fact Sheet on OTARD and a copy of the Lubiner and Galvin Petition for Declaratory Ruling to FCC. This ruling is a proxy for my request. The Memorandum Opinion and Order of the FCC ruled in favor of the petitioners.

I called the FCC the other day to see if there are any teeth in the OTARD Rule. After examining the FACT SHEET and a number of Petitions for Declaratory Rulings, I haven't seen anything that speaks to penalties an HOA would be facing if they continued to deny an antenna installation request or attempted to fine or place a lien on a propertyholder who installed an antenna. No one called back. Does anyone have insight into this facet of the law?

For those of you happy to see me jumping over the cliff, I've made an appointment to have the antenna mounted this week. Sound Advice came back with an installation charge double their previous estimate; probably because I didn't buy the antenna from them. I called High Tech Electronics and spoke with Ken. Since they no longer do installations, he referred me to a highly recommended tradesman, Dominick Jaroszynski. Ken couldn't say enough good things about him. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Say, is WTSP-DT still transmitting? I did a review of available stations for my location at checkhd.com and they show this CBS affiliate as NTSC-only.

Regards to all,

Dan

Dan:

Congratulations!!! It sounds like you have now set a standard for your community. I'll be anxious to hear about your signal reception results once you get your antenna up.

Yes, WTSP-DT is transmitting. I sometimes get their signal before it falls off. However, I have no plans to raise my antenna above its current height.

Good luck,

Dan,
Congratulations on the soon coming install, you will love it and I hope you get CBS.

I have no idea about our bylaws as no one enforces them. The only ones I know about are keeping a junk yard in your front yard. Know what I mean?

Keep us posted on how your install goes and if you get CBS.

By the way Ken is person that installed my antenna, a really nice guy.

GeoffQ

Ron,

Thanks. I hope it comes to pass. The HOA President seemed most concerned about 1) my location on the street and how visible the antenna would be to others and 2) the potential for additional requests.

I guess I passed the first test by explaining my backyard is not on the walkway that runs along many of the lakes and that my rear-facing neighbors are on the other side of a lake from my home. The closest neigbor to the antenna is a good friend who really doesn't care. I think I diffused the second issue by explaining the hurdles someone must get over in order to receive OTA DTV. HDTV-ready sets aren't cheap, ATSC tuners are at least $250, the antenna is $100 and installation work can be $150. And how many people will fight with the HOA? Little does he know that a friend of mine three doors down is ready to lift a mast as soon as the dust clears.

The installer will probably be here tomorrow. I'll go with his recommendations, but I really want to avoid going higher than four feet above the roof. This is what I submitted to the HOA. With luck, I'll be able to mount it even lower.

Take care,

Dan

Originally posted by GeoffQ
Dan,
Congratulations on the soon coming install, you will love it and I hope you get CBS.

Thanks, Geoff. Yes, grabbing CBS is my objective. If we have difficulty tomorrow, I guess I'll have to remain open to adding a rotor, as Ron did.

Ken is a nice guy, isn't he? In a prior call I spoke with Al, and he was helpful and friendly, too.

I'll keep you posted.

Dan

Dan,

Sounds like you're getting there.

I'm not a laywer, but it seems to me the only legal way for your Homeowner's association to deny your request in the face of federal law would be if they went through the trouble of installing a central antenna system for the entire complex. In that case as long as the central antenna worked you wouldn't have a problem anyway.

If they are really against you installing an antenna I expect they'll resort to
social pressure from your neighbors, since they don't have any legal foothold.

By the way, I have friends who live in VillageWalk. Very nice place and I imagine very comforting to live there during hurricanes since everything is constructed of reinforced concrete.

Larry

Originally posted by djmorris
If we have difficulty tomorrow, I guess I'll have to remain open to adding a rotor, as Ron did.
Dan

The Channel Master rotor is cheap (<$100 from Starke) and maybe necessary if you plan to pull in Ft. Myers. If it were me having the installation done, I would put the rotor in during the initial installation.

Just my 2 cents.

Originally posted by Ron Tobin
I would put the rotor in during the initial installation.


Hi, Ron.

I don't know. Maybe I'm being penny wise and pound foolish and should install the rotor. The issue for me is whether it is really needed given my objective of reaching WTSP-DT. I'm confident all the other stations north of here will come in OK since most of them are at 21 to 24 degrees north. WTSP is at 349 degrees north which makes me think I may need a rotor to get it. The only way to find out is to try, and as you imply, I may be putting up a rotor later. I'm concerned that 30 degrees of difference and an additional 25 miles in distance may make it tough to get. Perhaps if the antenna is aimed at WTSP I can still pull the other stations because they are closer.

Ft. Myers only has allure if WTSP is unreachable and I have to bide my time for WINK to go digital.

What's your opinion?

Dan

Originally posted by LarryChanin
Dan,

Sounds like you're getting there.

Hi, Larry.

A central antenna would be wonderful. In the HOA's mind, they have effectively done that by making the Comcast analog station package (2-70) available as part of the homeowner association fees. Everybody gets the package, whether they want it or not. I'm sure this was done to dissuade anyone from wanting to put up an antenna. One of the CC&Rs goes so far as to say that an antenna is not allowed if a home is equipped with cable.
Too bad they're not piping DTV over that cable. Then we'd have something.

Thanks for the complement on VillageWalk. Poured concrete walls with reinforcing steel sure does sound good. I just pray that we never have to put it to the test!

My neighbors are pretty benign. And like most places, people are finding ways to bend or break the Covenants, Codes and Restrictions. One neighbor had a contractor put in a pool and cage without bothering to get approval. He basically killed the irrigation system for half a block as a result. He made a lot of friends. Another neighbor parks his commercial vehicle in front of his home every evening; another no-no. And he's the elected neighborhood representative to the HOA!

The real complaint against antennas is that they are unsightly. Well, everything is relative. I find big, black solar pool panels on a roof far more unsightly. So as far as I'm concerned, the HOA has established a precedent for a level of acceptable uglyness and I'm way below it.

Dan

Dan, sounds like you are making progress. As you might recall I am in Englewood and have my antenna temporarily on my lanai roof and am getting all the Fort Myers stations. A little pixeling on PBS but others are great. Have not tried for CBS Tampa yet but don't have a lot of hope. Will give it a try soon.

I am not an attorney but I believe their attempt at a remedy, should you proceed, is strictly civil and so is yours.

Well before the current FCC law when the deed restrictions on antennas were enforceable, our community went after a resident who installed a 10' dish. Took him to court and won. Got a court order for him to take it down and a judgment for all the legal fees. Had to wait till a few years ago when he sold to get the money through a lien.

In your case you have the law on your side. They might continue to give you a hard time and I think your only resort is to either spend the money first and get a ruling or just put it up and put the ball in their court. The latter is what I would do. If you are defined as a condo, all dispute resolution is covered by Florida law. It must first go to medication before proceeding to court. If it comes to that it would seem you could go through the mediation step without spending a dime and represent yourself and let them get an attorney and waste their money(of course it is some of yours too).

Good luck.

Originally posted by djmorris
What's your opinion?



I never really took signal strength readings of the other Tampa stations with the antenna pointed toward WTSP-DT. Keep in mind the digital 7 and digital 12 (NBC and FOX) are in the VHF band, and is a little tougher to pull in strongly than the other UHF stations.

My experience with the attic antenna was that I needed to actually get my very best signal for the previously mentioned VHF stations, and everything else fell into place.

Best thing is that in a short period of time, you'll actually be able to try it and see what happens.

Good luck.

Originally posted by Ron Tobin
My experience with the attic antenna was that I needed to actually get my very best signal for the previously mentioned VHF stations, and everything else fell into place.

Ron,

Thanks for your thoughts and experience. We'll see what happens tomorrow. If WTSP proves elusive, the installer may have a rotor in the truck :-)

Dan

What's the current status with WB-38 HD in Tampa? The standard definition programming works fine, but when an HD program is going to show, it goes black and the signal goes away too.

Does anyone know what's going on over at that station?

Originally posted by djmorris

A central antenna would be wonderful. In the HOA's mind, they have effectively done that by making the Comcast analog station package (2-70) available as part of the homeowner association fees. Everybody gets the package, whether they want it or not. I'm sure this was done to dissuade anyone from wanting to put up an antenna. One of the CC&Rs goes so far as to say that an antenna is not allowed if a home is equipped with cable.
Too bad they're not piping DTV over that cable. Then we'd have something.


Hi Dan,

That's an interesting point. I haven't studied the regulation recently, but it probably doesn't stipulate your absolute right to receive local DTV signals. It's possible that so long as your central antenna delivers local standard definition stations the intent of the law may be satisfied.

Larry

Originally posted by LarryChanin
I haven't studied the regulation recently, but it probably doesn't stipulate your absolute right to receive local DTV signals. It's possible that so long as your central antenna delivers local standard definition stations the intent of the law may be satisfied.

Larry,

Don't scare me like that! The good thing is that you've forced me to do my homework.

My interpretation of the Rule, as presented in the OTARD Fact Sheet, is that the current NTSC cable connection to the house provided by the HOA does not constitute a valid restriction on an individual antenna. Assuming that the basic cable connection constitutes a central antenna, HOA restrictions would be permissible if:

1) I received the video programming I desired. The system does not provide HDTV programming.
2) I could choose my service provider. Comcast is the service provider and there is no other choice.
3) The signal quality is as good or better than the individual antenna. We all know that digital ATSC signals are superior to analog NTSC signals.
4) The costs of a central antenna service are not greater than the costs of an individual installation. I'll concede this point because I don't know what the current costs are to me for basic cable from Comcast provided as part of HOA dues.
5) Use of a central antenna did not delay my ability to receive programming. The current NTSC central antenna delays my ability to receive DTV and HDTV programming.

I'm no lawyer either, but I think the HOA's central antenna approach, if they choose to use it, will not satisfy the conditions required to be acceptable restrictions under the Rule.

Dan,
I have my antenna pointed to ch 10 and I receive all the other stations just fine. I did that with Ken because he recommended it and has worked great so far.

Hope everything is going well today, keep us posted.

GeoffQ

Originally posted by GeoffQ
Hope everything is going well today, keep us posted.
GeoffQ

Well, today didn't turn out as I expected. The installer arrived and told me he would not be able to mount the antenna on the roof. He suggested mounting it on a pole against the pool privacy wall. This wall is a concrete extension of the west side of the house. It effectively shields the pool area from our neighbor on that side and is used as a base for the pool cage on the west side. It's about 8 feet high and 20 feet long.

It would be possible to attach an adjustable mast to the end of the privacy wall closest to the house proper and jack the mast up until an acceptable signal is gained. But there are two problems:

1) I'm in a zero-lot-line single family home. The CC&Rs clearly stipulate that neither I or my adjacent neighbor can do anything to the privacy wall. Not even paint it. If I attach a mast with brackets to it I could be in violation of the CC&R. Pretty weird considering that the wall is on my property. Anyway, I called the HOA President to discuss the installation location change. He may buy it because there won't be anything on the roof and the installation location will be less visible.

2) I'm not sure I want to use this installer. When I questioned him about how he intended to ground the antenna, it became apparent that he did not plan to use a coax surge suppressor on the lead before it entered the house. I'm no electrician, but I know that the National Electrical Code calls for such a device. The installer was going to rely on the surge suppressor I have for the TV and its associated ground plug. He also came unprepared to do the work. He brought no poles, brackets or coax. What was he thinking? On top of it all, he dissed my antenna choice.

I called Alex at Satellite TV Service as an installation back-up. He'll come by on Monday to scope out the job. He also told me that an installation on the roof would not work.

If I don't hear from the HOA by then, I'll entertain the idea of installing a pole along one of the northern support beams of the pool cage. This would put the antenna another 20 feet from the tuner and would certainly make it more visible.

Hoping for better luck,

Dan

Hey, Everyone. I had my antenna installed today and it appears to be working pretty well. And miracle of miracles, I'm getting 10.1. The Winegard Sensar II is mounted on a 20 foot telescoping mast attached to the pool privacy wall behind my house. I estimate the antenna is 19 feet in the air because about a foot of the pole is buried in the ground. I'm using a Samsung SIR-T451 terrestrial receiver.

Here's the rundown on reception strength:
3.1, 3.2, 3.5 100%
8.1,8.2,8.3 90%
10.1 80%
13.1 100%
16.1,16.2,16.3,16.4 60%**
20.1,20.2 60%*
22.1 90%
28.1 100%
32.1 100%
38.1 80%
44.1 100%
50.1 100%
66.1,66.2,66.3,66.4 100%

* Appeared at 8 PM when I rescanned for stations.
** Popped-up after a 10 PM scan. Pixelated at first, then stabilized.

I'm amazed that I pulled 10.1 at such a low elevation. My expectation was that I'd have to go about another six feet up to pull it in. The only station of interest that I can't get is 40.1.

On the HOA front, our president is not returning my calls. I submitted a second written request for an antenna installation to the ACC based on what was installed today. The current installation hides the mast and antenna well. The only neighbor who may have a beef is my next door neighbor who is adjacent to the pool privacy wall. Although I worked hard to hide the mast behind a downspout and there is some cooperating landscape, there is no doubt that he now has some additional scenery when he looks toward our property line.

I went with Satellite Television Services on 2663 Wood Street, Sarasota for the installation. It's a workmanlike job but I had to demand that they bond the mast and antenna discharge unit for the lead-in cable to the grounding electrode system. Even so, I'll probably have an electrician check their work to make sure it satisfies the National Electrical Code. I guess you could say that I'm not ready to recommend them. For the $215 they charged I expected a more professional approach to my safety concerns.

I'm looking forward to watching some Thanksgiving football with the family in HD!

Dan

Dan:
Congratulations on getting your antenna installed.

As for 40.1, they are not running at full power, even though their transmitter is located in Parrish. They are marginal here.

Wondering when you did your scan to lock in 10.1? Atmospheric conditions play a huge part in the ability of one to pull in that station. For instance, I was getting them last night, but if I were to try now, I'd get probably nothing. My HD Tivo's receiver is not as friendly to weak stations as my E86. Your Samsung seems like it is forgiving as well.

Since you're only about 2-3 feet higher than me, and almost in the same location, our results, from day to day, should be very comparable. Keep checking 10.1 and see how stable they remain.

BTW, not receiving 40.1 digital is no great loss. Since the Tampa ABC station (28.1) is rock solid, and they broadcast in 5.1 audio, which 40.1 does not, you're not missing any of the ABC HD broadcasts.

Has anyone else in Tampa lost channel 8.1 NBC and 28.1 ABC today. Both channels are completely dead no signal at all, I mean they do not register anything on the strength meter. I usually get those channels in at 95+ on my meter. All my other OTA channels are fine/full strength, so I am not thinking it has to do with my antenna.

Hello, Baja.

I've lost both channels, too. I guess it's not your antenna.

Dan

Just a guess, but maybe they share a tower, and there's some problems at that tower.

Dan -- you still getting 10.1 at 80% strength?

Ron,

You're probably right about them sharing a tower. I just placed a call to WFLA's newsroom and asked if their DT station was out. They didn't know and transferred me to an engineer. I left a message for Mark Schaeffer letting him know that the three of us were experiencing the same problem.

Signal strength on 10.1 right now is a solid 60%.

Dan

Dan:

At "solid 60%" you're on the edge. Atmospheric conditions will cause the signal to vary and you will pop in and out and not maintain a locked signal. That's because the darn tower is about 70 miles away from us. The only thing that might help you is if your receiver somehow has a low signal requirement.

Have you watched much of 10.1 and experienced consistent audio and video?

Ron,

I have been so amazed at getting 10.1 that I've been leaving it on! I'm no soap fan, but I was watching One Life to Live because its HD. I didn't experience any audio or video problems.

By the way, 8.1 and 28.1 are back. Someone at the tower probably had to reboot a Microsoft computer :-)

Dan

Just checked and both channels are now back up full strength. I guess something must of happened, that they fixed on the transmission end. Either that or someone was out at Fri happy hour for lunch..lol

WWSB-DT is only running 930 watts ERP from thier transmitter in Parrish, so coverage is very poor.

WWSB has a new Chief Engineer, Jack Dillon, formerly the Chief at Ch 62 in Tampa (Venice) so I think you will see quite a few improvements in the months to come.

They were working on the channel 8/28 tower yesterday and had to turn off the Digitals to protect the tower crew from RFR.

That one tower is home to channels 7, 8, 28, 29, 38, 47, 50 & 57.

This deals with an OTA channel but concerns DirecTV. For those of you who don't have an antenna or have rooms that don't use one and you can't see the Devil Rays on PAX66 because DirecTV doesn't carry it in your locals package. Well you guys and gals will be happy now because DirecTV now carries PAX 66 via the satellite on channel 66 labeled TA66.

This was one of my very small pet peeves that I had with DirecTV always having to watch the Devil Rays in the living room when I would rather watch it in bed.

Longhorn:
I'm not home, but just looked at their local schedule on the web, and didn't see 66 listed yet. When did they add it?

Originally posted by Ron Tobin
Longhorn:
I'm not home, but just looked at their local schedule on the web, and didn't see 66 listed yet. When did they add it?

I'm not sure when they added this channel but I only knew about it because my SD Tivo doesn't have any type of antenna going to it and I saw TA66 and tuned it in and its the same exact show and guide data as the OTA antenna PAX 66.

But rest assured its there now.

I am currently using an old antenna which was in the attic when I bought my house. I get channel 13,28 good. Channel 8 poorly and no 10. Anyone in clearwater area using an attic antenna that can give me some suggestions on what to try?

I am currently using an old antenna which was in the attic when I bought my house. I get channel 13,28 good. Channel 8 poorly and no 10. Anyone in clearwater area using an attic antenna that can give me some suggestions on what to try?

I'm not in Clearwater, but you've got two completely different directions you're trying to get. Channel 10 (digital 24) is in Holiday, which is just above Tarpon Springs, so you should get them just fine, as long as you're facing their antenna, and 8 is located at the Riverview antenna farm along with 13 and 28. You may need to move to antenna to face somewhere between Holiday and Riverview, and see what you get.

Good luck!

Has anyone else had recent problems with 10.1 (HD CBS) I have 100% signal, but no picute, and this has just recently happened, as the last 2 years I have had no problems. I have no problems with the other channels either like ABC, NBC... but UPN has the exact same issue. Any insight or help would be great.

Originally posted by ghscott
Has anyone else had recent problems with 10.1 (HD CBS) I have 100% signal, but no picute, and this has just recently happened, as the last 2 years I have had no problems. I have no problems with the other channels either like ABC, NBC... but UPN has the exact same issue. Any insight or help would be great.

Yes this happens on my Dish 921 the signal is there but no picyure sometimes. No problems with 8, 13m or 28 though.

Same thing here with NFL playoff game.
Testing 3 systems.

1. Akia with built-in tuner, blank screen on HDTV 10, while analog works fine.

2. HTPC with Sasem USB HDTV tuner, locks up PC when tuned to HDTV 10.

3. Laptop with same above Sasem instead plugged into laptop, works fine on HDTV 10. No problems or issues using same external hardware including antenna.

I even copied over the entire Sasem folder from laptop to HTPC, but same issue. All other channels work fine. The Akia is a friends, and he called last week to see why his 10 went out. Just checked today, and still not working.

I was getting a snapping sound out of my left rear speaker tonight on Fox 13 so I switched to Fox4 and had the same thing no other OTA channels seemed to be doing this and now that the news is on it has stopped on Fox.

I live in Sarasota. Comcast people said they don't carry hdtv signal for upcoming superbowl. Can you please tell me if OTA signal is available in Sarasota area for the superbowl. Thank you

The Super Bowl is on Fox. I don't have Comcast, however I'm fairly certain that Comcast carries Fox HD. Sounds like the Comcast CSR does not know what they are talking about -- fairly common for Comcast.

If you choose to get it OTA, digital 12, which is Fox HD from Tampa, comes in very well in Sarasota.

Need help-OTA in Dade City

Hello,

I am trying to long distance help out my Father-in-Law who lives in Dade City. They just bought a new Mits with and integrated tuner. He had no idea an antenna would be able to pick up HD.

I am very (too much so) experienced in OTA reception, so please don't point me at antennaweb or checkHD

I am trying for a quick and clean email setup for him so he can watch the SB in HD. I realize that FOX in Tampa is VHF. It is close enough to the UHF band that I am sure a (good) UHF antenna will snag the signal. How much of a UHF antenna is the question. When I go down to visit, I will set him up properly, but for now, I am hoping for him to be able to get away with something like the Silver Sensor or the amped Square Shooter. Anybody have some quick info on this concept?

TIA

I'm in Pt. Charlotte almost 60 miles away from ch13 and I pull it in with a 70% signal off the back end of a db4 from antennas direct pointed at Ft. Myers. the db4 is a uhf antenna.

Originally posted by motrac
I'm in Pt. Charlotte almost 60 miles away from ch13 and I pull it in with a 70% signal off the back end of a db4 from antennas direct pointed at Ft. Myers. the db4 is a uhf antenna.

If this was for me, thanks. I guess that it is helpful to know that 13 is a strong signal. I always assumed that a high gain outdoor antenna would get the signal. My question is if there is someone nearby getting signal on one of the amped indoor antennas.

Thanks!

I have noticed that when WTVT is showing an HD program sometimes they will display lotto numbers or info at the bottom of the screen and when they do this they switch from HD to SD and I have even lost the audio for 5-15 seconds in the switch I wish they would figure out a better way to do this without interrupting the HD signal.

I live in South Tampa (near Downtown) and use an exterior mounted SquareShooter 2 (amplified). I would guess that I'm about 16 miles from the tower. With the amp I get FOX just fine- 85- 90 signal strength. Without the amp I get nothing. I tried several amplified indoor antennas with little luck- they all just sort-of worked. On the VHF station (NBC) I still get an 85 signal strength, even though the antenna is only rated for about 15 miles. The big problem we experience here is that almost all of the broadcasts come from the Riverview area EXCEPT CBS. For me it's about a 180 degree difference. You either need 2 antennas or a rotator to get the 4 networks.

Dade City is quite a bit further from the Riverview antennas than mine. I don't think a squareshooter will work unless it's mounted outdoors up high (and then I would question if it's enough antenna for the VHF reception). Don't bother with an indoor antenna- I don't think you'll have reliable reception. Unfortunately, in Dade City I think you'll need a very good rooftop antenna (amplified) to get reliable reception.

Originally posted by JeffMTV

Don't bother with an indoor antenna- I don't think you'll have reliable reception. Unfortunately, in Dade City I think you'll need a very good rooftop antenna (amplified) to get reliable reception.

Yes, but this is a quick fix so he can watch the SB. I will come down to FL later and hook him up with a roof mount 4228 w/7777.

Thanks!

Anyone in the Clearwater area have any idea when Brighthouse might start carrying NBC-HD?

I moved last year from the Philadelphia area, and up there Comcast carried all of the networks except CBS. Down here we have the same problem, but with NBC. I would think after years of negotiating, all three major networks would come to some agreement with the cable companies and work something out.

Though i know this board is more of a south tampa area board, but for those who live in the land of 10,000 finger and toe nails ripped off by a pair of pliers, (citrus county) there is now a gainesville fl OTA thread

Originally posted by Tachy
Anyone in the Clearwater area have any idea when Brighthouse might start carrying NBC-HD?

I moved last year from the Philadelphia area, and up there Comcast carried all of the networks except CBS. Down here we have the same problem, but with NBC. I would think after years of negotiating, all three major networks would come to some agreement with the cable companies and work something out.

I spoke with a CSR at Brighthouse a few weeks ago. I asked if the problem with channel 8 was actually contractual or technical. I doubt if he knew for sure, but he said it was most likely contractual. Since neither cable company carries WFLA-DT, my own guess is that it's a technical problem. If it were contractual, one of the cable companies would bite the bullet and put it on. Once that happened the other company would have to follow suit or they would most likely lose some customers.

BTW, I sent an email to WFLA last week asking whether it's a contractual or technical problem. I've received no response from them yet.

My guess is that it is contract related. Let me know what/if they answer you. When I was in philadelphia, comcast could not come to an agreement with cbs, and my guess is they still haven't. It may be that the local NBC affiliate does not wish ANY cable company offer their HD feed for some reason, and/or it comes down to money.

I just wish they would hurry the inevitable, since eventually I imagine all cable companies will carry all major networks.

Has anybody had a problem with HBOHD on BrightHouse? I watched Matrix:Revolutions last night and there were constant pixellation and noise problems, particularly in fast action scenes or with quick lighting changes. I live in North Pinellas and am using the Pace STB with component cables into a new Sony 55WF655.

Has anyone had an issue with bad "tiling" and constant pixellation of the signal using a cable card from Bright House in Pinellas? I just had an install on a Mits wd-62725 and we tried two different cards but could not get a good picture. I have the latest firmware from Mits for the TV. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks...

Joe

I am surprised at how inactive this thread is, considering it seems to be the only thread on this forum for the entire Tampa Bay area. It seems to encompass all the cable companies, OTA, and all areas of HD for the Tampa Bay, Pinellas county area, and seems to get only a couple of entries per week. If anyone knows of a more active thread that would be appropriate for Brighthouse networks cable, HD in Pinellas county, please let me know.

Originally posted by Tachy
I am surprised at how inactive this thread is, considering it seems to be the only thread on this forum for the entire Tampa Bay area. It seems to encompass all the cable companies, OTA, and all areas of HD for the Tampa Bay, Pinellas county area, and seems to get only a couple of entries per week. If anyone knows of a more active thread that would be appropriate for Brighthouse networks cable, HD in Pinellas county, please let me know.

This is the sole thread for Tampa on AVS. It should pick up as more members from Tampa join AVS - just be patient.

Until this thread gets going, please refrain from posting links to outside forums. We want at least one thread for the Tampa, FL DMA that AVS members can come to to get answers for their questions - without them having to join another forum to get an answer to a simple question.

If there are any problems with this, PM me for more details.

The other forum bites because you have to register just to view...

WFLA 8 had the audio and the picture screwed up tonight for Vegas

Originally posted by Brett_FL
WFLA 8 had the audio and the picture screwed up tonight for Vegas

WFLA 8 was working fine for me last nite watching the SNL first five seasons special...OTA using MyHD card. Eric

Originally posted by himey
WFLA 8 was working fine for me last nite watching the SNL first five seasons special...OTA using MyHD card. Eric


Monday night at 9:00 for Las Vegas. They seemed to be stretching the SD picture for part of the show and the audio never came in 5.1 and at one point there was only background audio with no voices.

Im in Manatee County, just south of Tampa and have Brighthouse...Tonight I get a message on my screen. "Your HDTV Does Not Support HDCP"..Of course it did for the past six months so I called Brighthouse..They say its the TV not thier box..(8300HD)..I tell em, the TV works fine by bypassing the box, and they have no explanation. The techie then says we just had about three calls complaining about the same thing..I ask, did send an upgrade/download today..The reply " I dunno"

Anyone with Brighthouse experiance this tonight ?? Looks like Ill be returning to Direct TV Soon !!!


Barry

I too had the same problem with Brighthouse over in St. Pete. When I called, I was told that they did an update last night and they no longer support HDMI or DVI. I'm going to be making some phone calls tomorrow. Not that it will do any good, but it will be fun to lash out at some people.

Just a quick follow-up..The problem is due to a D/L that doesnt support HDMI...I dont know what what we got in exchange for losing HDMI support, but Ill never know..Went back to DTV..

Watching FOX 13 NASCAR coverage that is suppose to be in HD but looks like I am getting an SD picture so far. This maybe weather realsted though.

Fox4 in Cape Coral is showing the HD picture

Hello Everyone,
My wife and I are going to be moving to Oldsmar, FL (Tampa Bay), we are moving from Seattle, WA.

We are very big into HDTV and currently have HDTV with DVR via Comcast HD. We get all the locals (except UPN), ESPN HD, DISCOVERY HD, INHD1, INHD2 and the Prem Movie Channels.

I have looked at the Brighthouse and I'm shocked that they don't offer NBC in HD. I was wondering what are my options for HDTV and High Speed Internet in the area.

Thanks to everyone for your help!

SirChaos (Chase)

Hello Everyone,
My wife and I are going to be moving to Oldsmar, FL (Tampa Bay), we are moving from Seattle, WA.

We are very big into HDTV and currently have HDTV with DVR via Comcast HD. We get all the locals (except UPN), ESPN HD, DISCOVERY HD, INHD1, INHD2 and the Prem Movie Channels.

I have looked at the Brighthouse and I'm shocked that they don't offer NBC in HD. I was wondering what are my options for HDTV and High Speed Internet in the area.

Thanks to everyone for your help!

SirChaos (Chase)

Originally posted by SirChaos
Hello Everyone,
My wife and I are going to be moving to Oldsmar, FL (Tampa Bay), we are moving from Seattle, WA.

We are very big into HDTV and currently have HDTV with DVR via Comcast HD. We get all the locals (except UPN), ESPN HD, DISCOVERY HD, INHD1, INHD2 and the Prem Movie Channels.

I have looked at the Brighthouse and I'm shocked that they don't offer NBC in HD. I was wondering what are my options for HDTV and High Speed Internet in the area.

Thanks to everyone for your help!

SirChaos (Chase)

There are a lot of complaints about Brighthouse HD, including no NBC. I use DirecTV Satelite and get my HD OTA. From what I've been told, the OTA HD is better quality than cable/ satelite.

DirecTV has announced that they are sending up several new satelites in 2005 for HD channels, including locals (Tampa is one of 3 markets getting HD locals). Probably won't see any of this until late 2005 or early 2006.

Verizon is in the process of laying fiber optic in the Tampa area for bundled services, includung HD TV and internet on fiber that runs into your house. No word on when it will be available, but probably early 2006.

Getting the HD signal for the major networks over the air is pretty easy here. Oldsmar is close enough to the brodcast towers to have a pretty easy time getting the signals (I get about 20 digital stations with my rooftop antenna).

This looks like a transition year to me for HD- in 12 months there should be some great options available, but in the meantime ya gotta tough it out a little!:cool:

Anyone here from Brandon?

Any word when BHN will get cable cards restocked? Been 3 months now.

I dont know about getting re-stocked, but I am the ONLY one who asked for one in Bradenton and was told they don;t have em yet...I am going back to DTV this weekend anyway...

OMG, they called me like right after my post and said they got them in but it's only compatible with Panasonic TV's. :(

I'm in the Brandon area and Brighthouse also told me that they didn't have the Cable Cards for Sony, Only Panasonic.

I have Brighthouse Digital and HD package via the set top box and was wondering if there are any OTA channels that I am missing. I don't have an OTA antenna so if I need to buy one any suggestions you might have would be great.

I also been thinking about going with Voom Satellite for my service and using OTA for my locals. The cost is about the same as BH but you get a lot more HD.

I just moved to Hernando in Citrus county and I am looking for the names and Email addresses of the Chief Engineers and General Managers for the Tampa stations for ABC, CBS, FOX and NBC.

If anybody can provide this information it would be graetly appppreciated.

Thanks

Yesterday, WFLA, the Tampa NBC affiliate, finally went HD on BHN 608.

Hey..........For all you Brighthouse customers...........I just noticed we now have NBC-HD........at least in Pinellas county. (channel 608).

Would be nice if Comcast would do us down in Venice the same flavor.

I had comcast in Philly before and went 3 years without CBS-HD.....now I had Brighthouse with no agreement with NBC......

It is nice to have the major networks finally. (although I have not yet withnessed Brighthouse NBC-HD, most of this mornings broadcasts seemed upregulated low def, with stretched/cropped pictures so the top and bottom of the picture were a bit cut off when compared to the channel 8 low definition feed.)

Hey that's funny, when I checked this board yesterday, I did not see any mention of NBC-HD, and so I left my post. Today, I see the post right before me said pretty much the same thing.......hmmmm.......I wonder why it did not see that yesterday when I checked. (the last post there was the one asking about the engineers.

It was merged in - ftboomer started a new thread. (As was the previous post)

Thanks........I thought I was losing it.

Boy, this thread is dead.......I have been a member of local HD threads for years........but have only recently moved to the tampa area...........

Anyone know of any Tampa/Pinellas HD threads that are a bit busier?

I would concur with what NCPanther said eariler about posting links to other boards; the Tampa area is kind of an "early adopter" of HD; now going to be one of the 30 markets w/ HD locals from D*, for example; and thus will be one of the markets getting Mpeg4 first. I really like to be able to find out news, info, etc from AVS, where typically their is early news on everything HD related. The other forum mentioned doesn't seem to have much traffic anyway.

My big mystery regarding Tampa HD is the WB...are they EVER going to go to a full power signal fulltime, like all the other networks, or what? I can't set my HD TiVo for seasons pass, etc to the HD channel cuz it's powered down most of the time (I live in Lutz).

Overnight we got 632 WMORH, channel32 in HD. Kind of odd since they don't have any HD programming. Maybe this means that UPN & WB are close behind.

As an amateur rocket scientist I figured that moving from SD to HD television would be child's play, relatively speaking. Not so... After diligently(?) trying to understand the ins and outs --- I am forced to admit that I am more confused now than when I first started looking into HDTV.

It started out okay. After researching different HDTV sets I tentatively decided that the Hitachi 55HDT51 would be a wise choice for me. Since I already have two DirecTiVo (Philips DSR600) DVRs, the Hughes HD10-250 seemed like an obvious choice, kinda?

New equipment cost: about $7,000.00

Then I heard that DirecTV customers in Sarasota can't get the network's in HD (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX) via satelite... The network feeds are broadcast by satelite --- but for some reason I am not allowed to receive them??? Not sure why, something about Owned & Operated...

Now I guess that DirecTV will soon (mid-year 2005) offer the network channels in the TampaBay area via their two newest Ka band satelites using Mpeg4 compression. Naturally that will require new/different equipment.

This was about the time my constant headaches began to get really severe... :)

I live in Sarasota, near Tuttle and Proctor. The roof-top antenna I long-ago installed to get SD signals from Tampa never worked well, maybe because my neighbor's huge pine trees block its path? Ergo, what sort of luck could I seriously hope to have receiving OTA HD signals using a new HD antenna? Slim to none?

So, what's up Doc? Should I just wait patiently for a few more months and hope that I can get the local network feeds from DirecTV's new birds? Or, maybe I should just switch over to Comcast? But, I have also heard that Comcast doesn't offer NBC-HD and that the picture quality from Comcast is not the greatest...

As much as I would love to get HDTV, selling my house and moving to New York City really isn't an option.

Maybe I am just missing the point? Anyone have any comments? Have I got the wrong info?

Thanks... :confused:

Hi Techno,

I feel your pain! :(

I'm a DIRECTV subscriber and I recently had one of those typical unsatisfying conversations that you have with Customer Service Representatives. The conversation went something like this:

Larry:

I'm a subscriber in Sarasota, Florida as I understand it Sarasota is part of the Tampa market. Is that correct?

DIRECTV Customer Rep:

Yes sir, that's correct.

Larry:

And I just found out that FOX-HD is available in the Tampa market. Is that correct?

DIRECTV Customer Rep:

Yes sir, that's correct.

Larry:

Then why can't I receive it?

DIRECTV Customer Rep:

You're not eligible.

This was about the time my constant headaches began to get really severe... :rolleyes:

Sorry I can't add any more other than confirming your plight.

I'm an early adopter of HDTV, so maybe my advice is not relavent to you, but I of course I would go ahead and get the HDTV and HD tuner and starting enjoying satellite high definition programming. As you know the HD TiVo is fairly expensive, but when it works its wonderful.

The reason I say that is because many folks, including myself, have experienced problems with it. I'm on my third replacement unit, which knock wood, is still working. As a veteran TiVo person you know how addictive it can be.

You're right about the MPEG4 conversion, but most people believe that DIRECTV will provide a replacement for our current MPEG2 devices, especially the expensive HD TiVos, for little or no charge.

With regard to your over-the-air reception, I have an indoor antenna that I use for HDTV. My receptions is not very good, but I find that I have better luck receiving Ft. Myers stations than Tampa. Assuming you don't have tree behind you, you might be better off turning the antenna 180 degrees and giving it a try.

I have a love-hate relationship with DIRECTV, but for now I would recommend trying HD with DIRECTV. After all you can always switch to an other provider if you have to.

Good luck.

Larry

Techo:
I'm also in Sarasota and, as with Larry, an early adopter as well. I also have the HD Tivo and think its fabulous. Forget trying to get CBS out of Holiday but, despite your neighbors trees, you may be surprised, with your outdoor antenna, that you might actually be able to receive ABC and FOX fairly well. You might even be able to get Ft. Myers NBC (digital 15) off the back of your antenna. Give it a whirl.

Hopefully, since we're in the first group, when the new sats go up and are working, all will work out with DirecTV as well, and they'll do what they need to do to upgrade eqt. in order to be capatible with MPEG4, and we'll have HD locals from Tampa.

Good luck,

Originally posted by LarryChanin
I have a love-hate relationship with DIRECTV, but for now I would recommend trying HD with DIRECTV. After all you can always switch to an other provider if you have to.
Originally posted by Ron Tobin
Forget trying to get CBS out of Holiday but, despite your neighbors trees, you may be surprised, with your outdoor antenna, that you might actually be able to receive ABC and FOX fairly well. You might even be able to get Ft. Myers NBC (digital 15) off the back of your antenna. Give it a whirl.

Hopefully, since we're in the first group, when the new sats go up and are working, all will work out with DirecTV as well, and they'll do what they need to do to upgrade eqt. in order to be capatible with MPEG4, and we'll have HD locals from Tampa.Good luck,

Thanks very much Larry & Ron, you have both helped reduce my confusion --- I think. :)

I am now leaning towards simply ending my Hate/Love relationship with DirecTV and going solely with Comcast instead. Then, I won't have to spend a thousand dollars for the DirecTV HD DVR and I will actually get CBS and ABC in HD from Comcast right now and not have to wait until sometime later this year. (Less money and more programming?)

I used to subscribe to D* Sunday Ticket and March Madness but stopped those last year, so DirecTV really doesn't have a big hook for me anymore. Too bad the Feds won't just allow DirecTV to pass the NY & west coast network's HD feeds to anyone who is willing to pay for them. I'm sure that if it was up to DirecTV they would do that. The guvmint sure is hindering things to the max? Guess someone has to look out for those special interest groups...

If later (when the mpeg4 is a reality) I should decide to opt for the "new" HD service from DirecTV I can simply switch back to DirecTV for HD. Won't even have to bother with upgrading equipment... Should be interesting to see what sort of DVR they go with after the new birds are on line. (Not TiVo anymore? :()

Maybe I will even get lucky and be able to pull in NBC and FOX from OTA. Thanks for the info! OTA is definitely worth a try... I'll probably just replace my old SD antenna/rotor that I have on my roof now with a good directional HD antenna. (Time to begin researching antennas...)

*chirp, chirp*

I live in Bradenton and am trying to finish my HT. Do you find the rain fade a problem here on the West Coast of Florida? Channel Master and I assume others make a larger dish, approx 30x36, with three LNB's for DirecTV. Does it work as advertised? Is it needed?

Hi,

I live in Sarasota. When we moved down here we took advantage of the professional dish installation for $25 offered by DIRECTV. However, I was concerned about possible rain fade issues and asked the installer whether they offered an optional upgrade to the Channel Master dish. They didn't so I went with the standard oval triple LNB dish.

To answer your question, yes in violent thunder storms coming from the South there will be a short interval of rain fade. I'm guessing, but I'd stay they generally go away after about 10 minutes.

To me the large dish is not needed, unless, of course, you're in the middle of a Super Bowl party. :eek:

Larry

I live in Brandon, and was wondering if u guys knew if any channels from brighthouse are unencrypted, and if so, which channels they are.

Originally posted by bsteezy
I live in Brandon, and was wondering if u guys knew if any channels from brighthouse are unencrypted, and if so, which channels they are.

Can't help you on Brighthouse, but for those who have Comcast (Sarasota), the unencryted HD ones are ABC, CBS, FOX and PBS. Everything else in HD in encrypted.

Hopefully someone can chime in and give you the status of Brighthouse.

I'm moving to Tampa (lithia)from New Jersey...can someone give me the basics of HD offerings in the area ? and which provider I should go with ? Brighthouse or Directv.

This board only seems to get a hit or two every week.

I don't know much about directtv, but I am in pinellas county and am pretty happy with Brighthouse networks. They recently added NBC-HD, so we now get NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox, PBS, Discovery channel, TNT-HD, HBO, Showtime, INHD, INHD-2, HDnet, HDnet2, ESPN HD.

They are not all included......the basic HD includes nbc, cbs, abc, fox, pbs, discovery and tnt I think.

If you get either HBO or SHO packages, you get their HD channel.

If you get the optional HD pack, you get the INHD, HDNET and ESPN HD. (I think).
They offer basic HD boxes and DVR-HD. (I think the DVR is about $9.95 extra per month).

Anyone living in Fishhawk ranch and getting off-air HD ?

scientificatlanta.com/customers/Source/4004400.pdf got me one of these yesterday, well, what I can't figure out is why I can hook up my dvd player with component YPbPr cables, and my pS2 YPbPr cables , and my gamecube YPbPr cables to my tv, but not this 8000HD box

you can switch modes on the box, from 480i, 480p, 1080i, 1080p but i found two manual pdf's, last night, tried them both, they don't work, the 480i looks like it's black and white

heres my crapty tv p4c.philips.com/files/2/27pt6441_37/27pt6441_37_pss_aen.pdf



sorry for posting links outside the site, but they are just spec/info sheets, not to other forums or threads


thanks to everyone in advanced :D

Originally posted by Tachy
This board only seems to get a hit or two every week.

That may change if people don't continually try to divert members to other sites for answers and just respond to questions within this thread. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by katous
scientificatlanta.com/customers/Source/4004400.pdf got me one of these yesterday, well, what I can't figure out is why I can hook up my dvd player with component YPbPr cables, and my pS2 YPbPr cables , and my gamecube YPbPr cables to my tv, but not this 8000HD box

you can switch modes on the box, from 480i, 480p, 1080i, 1080p but i found two manual pdf's, last night, tried them both, they don't work, the 480i looks like it's black and white

heres my crapty tv p4c.philips.com/files/2/27pt6441_37/27pt6441_37_pss_aen.pdf



sorry for posting links outside the site, but they are just spec/info sheets, not to other forums or threads


thanks to everyone in advanced :D

Hi,

I have no experience with either device, but I did find a manual for the 8000HD (http://www.timewarnercable.com/MediaLibraryRoot/FAQ/documents/exp8000hd_dvr.pdf) to look over.

After a casual view of the manual in appears that the "Y" video connector for a component connection is only active for High Definition output. For standard definition it appears that the connector becomes a simple composite video output.

The brochure for your TV doesn't say anything about it being high definition. If it is not that might explain your problem getting component video output from the 8000HD.

It would seem you would be better off using the S-video connector. Have you tried it and does it work?

Larry

yes, i am currently watching it as i type with the SVHS connector, and I noticed that in the manual about the Y becoming standard composite out, hmmm, I guess I'll just have to deal' with it till i get a real hdtv. :o

I waited several days (at least SIX I think) without anyone answering that gentleman, before suggesting that he also check the other site.........

If there are not enough people checking out THIS thread to answer peoples' questions in a timely manner....it is only courteous to refer someone to a site that perhaps they can get help at.........

Someone was nice enough to do the same for me..........in an earlier thread. I still frequent BOTH. I have never seen a forum so intent on keeping people from looking at similar forums.

Perhaps it is the unfriendliness of the people here.....in addition to the lack of people answering......that keep people away from this thread.


AND, as I said in my answer.........if I knew the answer.....I would have answered it.........perhaps if he asked it on another board........in addition to this one.....between the two boards......he could have gotten the answer. I often post things on two similar boards........what is the harm in that?

There are plenty of helpful friendly people on AVS. That 6 day wait will eventually be 5, then 4, etc. - but only if there are enough people interacting on the thread - something that will never happen if people keep getting siphoned off and never come back.

It's not a competition thing - it's simply the desire to have a single place for Tampa area AVS members to come and be able to get quick & easy answers for their area. If another forum has 100 active Tampa threads and AVS has only one - we're fine with that.

I've already basically hijacked this thread that was exclusive to the Sarasota area (apoligies to Ken, Ron and Larry, among others) in the hopes that they would welcome the Tampa area members and help answer their questions - which they've done (thanks for that) - until such time that the area was active enough that it was self-sustaining.

As far as your question "what's the harm in that?" - 236 posts in almost two years in the 13th largest market in the country and 6 day waits for answers - should make it apparent.

My point being...............as well....that after 6 days with no answer.......if I was the person who posted the question........would be MORE likely to come back to this board.......if someone was nice enough to share info about similar boards to get my answer.................than if another several days went by.........still with not even a single post.......let alone an answer to my question.

I am not trying to be difficult or start an argument.......I was just trying to be a "nice neighbor". I too am waiting for this thread to get interesting.........or at least busy enough to be really helpful. I am of the belief though, that sharing ways to get answers to questions, may actually encourage people to come back.......rather than the opposite effect (not to mention, it might help them get their answer.)