I was looking for a good quality component video switch. I need 4 inputs to one output and it needs to support HD with no signal loss. I don't want to spend more than $150, but I don't care if it's manual without a remote. Any suggestions?

Got the perfect switch for you.

Video Storm CSW02 (http://www.video-storm.com)

4 inputs, two outputs, component + coaxial audio.
70MHz Bandwidth (1080i/720p is 37MHz BW)
It learns remote control codes from any remote. It's sells for $159.
(But there is a sale in July for $129!)

I have used the switch for two months now (I was part of their beta program) and I was very impressed with the switch. I ran long runs to both my HD projector (Sony HS20) and to a 1280x720 LCD monitor through 50' cables at the same time with zero signal loss.

Hope this info helps.

That sounds great, does anyone else have any opinion on this?

Try the Audio Authority 1154. 4 in, 1 out, high bandwidth. Takes optical or coax audio, converts between the two. Also reversible to 1 in 4 out. No need for a remote, it's auto senses (and I've never had it fail), learning your switching patterns. It can be found for about $160.

I've been using this product for about 6 months now, 4 in, two discreet outputs :

http://www.avtoolbox.com/avt5842mx.shtml

Never had a problem, handles HDTV without any problems and they shipped it realyl quickly. They have another model that doesn't do the two discreet outputs (they call it matrixing) which is cheaper, but even still this one is priced within your budget (all prices removed to protect the innocent).

X1
Arcam
DYI Screen
SA8000HD HDPVR

Anything in this price range that will do more than 4 inputs? I need at least 5, possibly more depending on future equipment upgrades.

Originally posted by Scott Osmond
I've been using this product for about 6 months now, 4 in, two discreet outputs :

http://www.avtoolbox.com/avt5842mx.shtml

Never had a problem, handles HDTV without any problems and they shipped it realyl quickly. They have another model that doesn't do the two discreet outputs (they call it matrixing) which is cheaper, but even still this one is priced within your budget (all prices removed to protect the innocent).


I echo that, mine works just as well as I expected/hoped it to. Good product.

What about source color variations? For example, component video from a DVD vs component video from a set top box (HDTV possibly). Many of the projectors have memory presets keyed to each type of input on the projector which allow you to tweak the picture for different source variations.

If you're feeding multiple component sources into one component connection on the projector would loosing this ability be significant?

Originally posted by BlueCamel
What about source color variations? For example, component video from a DVD vs component video from a set top box (HDTV possibly). Many of the projectors have memory presets keyed to each type of input on the projector which allow you to tweak the picture for different source variations.

If you're feeding multiple component sources into one component connection on the projector would loosing this ability be significant?


Huh? Most all projectors, at least in this forum's price range only have one component video input. That is why we need the switch. How will using a switch box be any different than unplugging one device and plugging in another. It's not like the PJ has multiple inputs or something. It has a s-video and DVI input, but the switch doesn't effect these at all.

How about the JVC JX-S111 component switch? Anyone has experience, info on one of these? I'm also looking into getting a switch since I now have 3 devices to plug into my Z1.

Originally posted by rsmith4321
Huh? Most all projectors, at least in this forum's price range only have one component video input. That is why we need the switch. How will using a switch box be any different than unplugging one device and plugging in another. It's not like the PJ has multiple inputs or something. It has a s-video and DVI input, but the switch doesn't effect these at all.

Many devices offer multiple video out options. For example, many DVD players can use either component or composite or svideo. Non-HDTV Satellite receivers also tend to have svideo or component output.

Given these two examples you might hook the SatRec with svideo and the DVD with component, both directly to the projector inputs. This would let you adjust the video settings at the projector for each source and avoid using a component switch. Of course, you may trade off a slight softer image from the Non-HDTV SatRec by using svideo instead of component.

Just an example to illustrate my point. Truthfully there may be so little variation between the component picture quality of the various devices in your rack that it may not matter one bit.

Originally posted by BlueCamel
Many devices offer multiple video out options. For example, many DVD players can use either component or composite or svideo. Non-HDTV Satellite receivers also tend to have svideo or component output.

Given these two examples you might hook the SatRec with svideo and the DVD with component, both directly to the projector inputs. This would let you adjust the video settings at the projector for each source and avoid using a component switch. Of course, you may trade off a slight softer image from the Non-HDTV SatRec by using svideo instead of component.

Just an example to illustrate my point. Truthfully there may be so little variation between the component picture quality of the various devices in your rack that it may not matter one bit.

No, that doesn't make a good point at all. If we wanted to hook up to s-video or composite we wouldn't need a switch. Component video is far superior to s-video or composite. S-video does not support 480p or HD, so none of my components from DVD players, Xbox, or HDTV cable box can hook up to anything but component video. I guess you are missing the whole point of why we want a switch, perhaps you just don't understand how things work. But a component switch is the only possible thing for many of us. In fact, why are you arguing otherwise, it makes no useful sense to me.

Originally posted by rsmith4321
But a component switch is the only possible thing for many of us. In fact, why are you arguing otherwise, it makes no useful sense to me.

Never mind then. :)

Wolfman - The Video Storm unit you beta tested - isn't it a switcher and amplifier? I don't see other switchers mentioning amplification, so I assume amplification isn't a normal part of component switching. I would be concerned that amplification might cause some picture issues if you don't really need it. Am I being concerned over nothing?

Thanks.

I was wondering about the same thing, amplification might be useful for long cable runs, would that be better than just a switch?

Originally posted by Eric Samonte
How about the JVC JX-S111 component switch? Anyone has experience, info on one of these? I'm also looking into getting a switch since I now have 3 devices to plug into my Z1.

Stay away from this unit...one of the bigger mistakes I made last year. Complete waste of money. PQ was horrible, obvious deterioration and signal loss. A signal Butcher!

Originally posted by JeffKB
Wolfman - The Video Storm unit you beta tested - isn't it a switcher and amplifier? I don't see other switchers mentioning amplification, so I assume amplification isn't a normal part of component switching. I would be concerned that amplification might cause some picture issues if you don't really need it. Am I being concerned over nothing?

Thanks.

Yes, it is an amplifier, but I didn't see any issues at all with the amplification. The picture quality was great. I ran both moving video and still frames in both 480i and 720p (I used an Xbox to play 720p material using XBox Media Center and rented Freedom Fighters, a 720p game)

I tested the switch with long component runs (10m Sony Projector multi-cable and 50' RG-6) but I tested short runs with S-Video breakout cables (6' cables in and out) I verified using a scope that the switch passes exactly what was on the input to the output. From my observations, the amplification compensates for the fact that the signal is split. (You loose at least 3db when going through a passive splitter) The amplifier eliminates the loss and keeps the edge rates clean.

If I get a chance, I'll try out a 2m Component cable, but I think that you shouldn't worry about the amplification. I think it is a good thing.

Wolfman - thanks! Sounds like a great unit. In my case I'm using a 45' cable, so I don't think the amplification would hurt. I am surprised that it actually splits the signal however.

Regarding amplification in a video switch, it is nearly always better to use an active switch (amplified) than a passive switch (non-amplified). The link below gives a lengthy discussion of the details. The only time a passive switch is better is if you need bidirectional signals (never with video), or the quality of the video amplifier is poor.


http://www.video-storm.com/videoinfo.asp

get the pelican pro system selector pro. It's 99.99, and has 8 inputs with optical and RJ45

Originally posted by Scott Osmond
I've been using this product for about 6 months now, 4 in, two discreet outputs :

http://www.avtoolbox.com/avt5842mx.shtml

Never had a problem, handles HDTV without any problems and they shipped it realyl quickly. They have another model that doesn't do the two discreet outputs (they call it matrixing) which is cheaper, but even still this one is priced within your budget (all prices removed to protect the innocent).

X1
Arcam
DYI Screen
SA8000HD HDPVR

You might want to check out the review Inday did on the AVT5842. The testing they did shows it falls short of HDTV specs.

http://www.inday.com/reviews/rgb4x-review.htm

BTW, Inday's switch is very good. Very similar to our switch.

Originally posted by thorne666
get the pelican pro system selector pro. It's 99.99, and has 8 inputs with optical and RJ45 ]


The idea though is I didn't want something that was a piece of junk.

What kind of bandwidth should a switch have to fully utilize HDTV? What kind of requirements should you look for in a component switcher?

Any basic help you can provide is much appreciated.

The idea though is I didn't want something that was a piece of junk.

:confused:

1. It meets your crtieria.
2. They sell it at B.B.
3. You can return it if you see any degradation of signal, which I GURANTEE you will not.
4. It is the standard 17", so it fits with other components nicely.

I run my HTPC, 2 HDTV boxes, Zenith 318 dvd player (at 1080i), and an X-box though this "piece of junk" to my Sharp DT-200 FP and sometimes to my RPHDTV.

I have been enoying the "piece of junk" PQ it provides for about a year and a half now :D .

To take it a step further, I had it but found it to be overkill; I didn't need that many ports. So I returned it and bought a 4in1out composite/svideo switch from radio shack and, what do you know, the picture is pristine. I'm using time warners high def. service, component dvd and the xbox-H.D, of course. There is no noticable difference between the direct connection or the switch connection. And amazingly enough, it was only 19.99!!:D

Originally posted by greenandgold
What kind of bandwidth should a switch have to fully utilize HDTV? What kind of requirements should you look for in a component switcher?

Any basic help you can provide is much appreciated.


For 720p or 1080i you need < 0.1 dB attenuation at 30 Mhz
For 1080p (very rare) you need < 0.1 dB attenuation at 60 Mhz

People can quote higher bandwidths than that, but there is no video data there. The main thing is that bandwidth is typically quoted as the -3 dB point, the -0.1dB point is not usually given (and is typically much lower).

If you have more attenuation (less bandwidth), you will still have a decent picture. However, you will loose the fine details and edges will not be as sharp. Many people may not notice this, but if you want the full HD quality....

Originally posted by Josh Z
Anything in this price range that will do more than 4 inputs? I need at least 5, possibly more depending on future equipment upgrades.

You could use 2 4:1 (or 2 4:2) ACTIVE switches cascaded. They must be amplified switches, this would be a bad idea with passive switches.

Of course, you would need to press two remote buttons (or one macro) to switch this.

Videostorm, do you have any test results using your switch, I like yours and the price better than the Inday, but I'm afraid the quality might not be as good.

Originally posted by videostorm
You could use 2 4:1 (or 2 4:2) ACTIVE switches cascaded. They must be amplified switches, this would be a bad idea with passive switches.Could you explain why would this be bad with passive switches? Is it just the impedance mismatch?

Won't amplified switches introduce their own problems? I.E., amplifying interference.

Originally posted by Noah
Could you explain why would this be bad with passive switches? Is it just the impedance mismatch?

Won't amplified switches introduce their own problems? I.E., amplifying interference.

With a passive switch there are two problems.
1. Real resistance: This cause signal loss, and you are doubling this when cascading two passive switches.

2. Intrinsic impedence mismatch. With a cascaded passive switch, you now have 4 mismatch points in your signal path. This is more than twice as bad as a single switch.

Amplified switch do not amplify noise, because the net signal gain is unity. Any noise at the input is passed exactly as it was to the end termination resistor, same as the signal.
Active (amplified) switches can have problems such as insufficient bandwidth, insufficient drive strength, or poor board layout (internal noise). A properly designed system will not have these problems.

Originally posted by rsmith4321
Videostorm, do you have any test results using your switch, I like yours and the price better than the Inday, but I'm afraid the quality might not be as good.

We have characterized all our products to insure that they meet the specs given. Compared to the Inday switch, our performance is equal in all areas except bandwidth. Inday has a very high bandwidth, ~ 230 Mhz.
The CSW02 has 70 Mhz bandwidth. However, for HDTV you only need 30 Mhz. The only data that exists above 30 Mhz is noise, and there is no value in passing that.

I have put together a page on our site today with some very basic scope captures.
http://www.video-storm.com/testdata/csw02_test_data.htm

Here are the manufacturers I've been able to find:
Video Storm
JVC JX-111
Inday
Zektor
DTronics DVI Switch
AudioAuthority
Keydigital
Extron
Altinex

Originally posted by videostorm
With a passive switch there are two problems.
1. Real resistance: This cause signal loss, and you are doubling this when cascading two passive switches.

2. Intrinsic impedence mismatch. With a cascaded passive switch, you now have 4 mismatch points in your signal path. This is more than twice as bad as a single switch.

Amplified switch do not amplify noise, because the net signal gain is unity. Any noise at the input is passed exactly as it was to the end termination resistor, same as the signal.
Active (amplified) switches can have problems such as insufficient bandwidth, insufficient drive strength, or poor board layout (internal noise). A properly designed system will not have these problems. I feel like I should not be asking someone who has a vested interest in active switches about the virtues of active switches. It's like asking the chef how the soup is. ;) Nonetheless, I'm sure you know what you're talking about.

So what about distribution amps? Could they solve the passive switch issues? Or just on the side of the switch where the amp is? Also, is degradation greater on amps with more outputs?

just curious, but couldnt you just use your surround reciever as the switch for the component videos? im not sure if this would work but i dont see why not unless you need more than inputs than the reciever has.

Originally posted by Noah
I feel like I should not be asking someone who has a vested interest in active switches about the virtues of active switches. It's like asking the chef how the soup is. ;) Nonetheless, I'm sure you know what you're talking about.

So what about distribution amps? Could they solve the passive switch issues? Or just on the side of the switch where the amp is? Also, is degradation greater on amps with more outputs?

Well, I have to agree that I do have a vested interest here. However, when we designed the CSW02 we also had the choice of designing a passive switch. Passive switches are cheaper to manufacture and easier to design, but have many drawbacks. Since our goal was the quality first and price a close second, we decided to go with the active switch.

A distribution amp can improve passive switch issues to a degree. Provided your passive switch is high enough bandwidth and less than 1 ohm resistance, place the distribution amp as near to the output of the switch as possible (try to use < 3 ft cable). Placing it on the input does not really help.

Originally posted by videostorm
Well, I have to agree that I do have a vested interest here. However, when we designed the CSW02 we also had the choice of designing a passive switch. Passive switches are cheaper to manufacture and easier to design, but have many drawbacks. Since our goal was the quality first and price a close second, we decided to go with the active switch. Yeah...don't get me wrong, it looks like you've got a very nice product at a decent price, and thanks for your insight on these issues. :DA distribution amp can improve passive switch issues to a degree. Provided your passive switch is high enough bandwidth and less than 1 ohm resistance, place the distribution amp as near to the output of the switch as possible (try to use < 3 ft cable). Placing it on the input does not really help. So, hypothetically, if you had a situation where either an amplified switch or a distribution amp would accomplish the same thing, which would you use?

Also, most distribution amps I've seen have more outputs than I need. Does more outputs = more degradation?

I will probably order the video storm switch soon, as long as they keep the $30 off, if not I would go with the Inday switch.

Originally posted by Noah
Yeah...don't get me wrong, it looks like you've got a very nice product at a decent price, and thanks for your insight on these issues. :DSo, hypothetically, if you had a situation where either an amplified switch or a distribution amp would accomplish the same thing, which would you use?

Also, most distribution amps I've seen have more outputs than I need. Does more outputs = more degradation?


That is an interesting question. The truth is, you can think of an amplified switch as a passive switch followed by a distribution amp. The main difference is that an amplified switch can terminated the signal BEFORE the passive switch. It then passes a very low current signal through the passive switch and into the distribution amp. Since the signal is terminated before the impedence change caused by the passive switch, you avoid the reflection problem. Also, because you are sending a very low current signal through the switch, any real resistance in the switch has very little effect. For example, the switch in our CSW02 has 1 ohm of real resistance. The with the very low current, the loss is 20 uV, effectively nothing. If it was a standard passive switch, the loss would be 7 mV (about 350 times greater).
So it really is better to use the amplified switch.

More outputs does not mean more degradation, as long as the designer uses devices that can handle the spurious current of all outputs simultaneously.

More outputs does not mean more degradation, as long as the designer uses devices that can handle the spurious current of all outputs simultaneously. That's good to know.Originally posted by videostorm
That is an interesting question. The truth is, you can think of an amplified switch as a passive switch followed by a distribution amp. The main difference is that an amplified switch can terminated the signal BEFORE the passive switch. It then passes a very low current signal through the passive switch and into the distribution amp. Since the signal is terminated before the impedence change caused by the passive switch, you avoid the reflection problem. Also, because you are sending a very low current signal through the switch, any real resistance in the switch has very little effect. For example, the switch in our CSW02 has 1 ohm of real resistance. The with the very low current, the loss is 20 uV, effectively nothing. If it was a standard passive switch, the loss would be 7 mV (about 350 times greater).
So it really is better to use the amplified switch.Hmmm...so even though you avoid the switching circuitry altogether in the DA, the amplified switch is the better choice?

For a less hypothetical scenario, I have 2 component video sources that I need to send to [at least] 3 separate inputs across 2 displays. The sources are HD and DVD, and the displays are a CRT HDTV and a projector. Each display has 2 component inputs, but one of the PJ's inputs only accepts 480i signals.

I prefer to use the projector's deinterlacer/scaler on DVDs, so I'm sending 480i component to it on its 480i input (I'm already using the DVD player's s-video for something that doesn't figure into this).

The HDTV source is less of a priority to me, so I wouldn't mind passively switching it between the displays. The HDTV and PJ would both have a dedicated input for this. Then I could use a distribution amp to send the DVD signal to the displays' other inputs.

Because I need to feed at least 3 inputs, something like your 4x2 matrix switcher won't work for me. Otherwise, I'd go that route, but so far the DA amp for DVD and passive switch for HD is the best cheap setup I can come up with.

Since I may yet have more sources and more displays down the road, I want to be a little forward-looking, so another possibility is:

sources -> 4x1 Active Switch -> 1x4 Distribution Amp -> displays

Would you anticipate much more noise or signal loss from a signal chain like this, assuming a good quality switch and DA?

Originally posted by Noah
That's good to know.Hmmm...so even though you avoid the switching circuitry altogether in the DA, the amplified switch is the better choice?



I'm sorry, I misunderstood the question. I thought you meant is an active switch better than a passive switch immediately followed by a distribution amp.
To answer your actual question, no switch is always better than having a switch. The distribution amp alone would be better. But for a good active switch the difference cannot be seen even with test instruments.

Originally posted by Noah

For a less hypothetical scenario, I have 2 component video sources that I need to send to [at least] 3 separate inputs across 2 displays. The sources are HD and DVD, and the displays are a CRT HDTV and a projector. Each display has 2 component inputs, but one of the PJ's inputs only accepts 480i signals.

I prefer to use the projector's deinterlacer/scaler on DVDs, so I'm sending 480i component to it on its 480i input (I'm already using the DVD player's s-video for something that doesn't figure into this).

The HDTV source is less of a priority to me, so I wouldn't mind passively switching it between the displays. The HDTV and PJ would both have a dedicated input for this. Then I could use a distribution amp to send the DVD signal to the displays' other inputs.

Because I need to feed at least 3 inputs, something like your 4x2 matrix switcher won't work for me. Otherwise, I'd go that route, but so far the DA amp for DVD and passive switch for HD is the best cheap setup I can come up with.

Since I may yet have more sources and more displays down the road, I want to be a little forward-looking, so another possibility is:

sources -> 4x1 Active Switch -> 1x4 Distribution Amp -> displays

Would you anticipate much more noise or signal loss from a signal chain like this, assuming a good quality switch and DA?

The 4x1 Active Switch -> 1x4 Distribution Amp -> displays is a good setup. This is a professional quality solution. Of course I would suggest instead
4x2 Active Switch (CSW02) -> 1x3 Distribution Amp (CB003)-> displays since they are our products, provide an equivalent solution, and probably cost less. (You would have 4 outputs, 1 from CSW02 and 3 from CB003).

I use a RCA mech A/V selector(4 inputs 1 output/compostie/audio and s-video) and if there is a difference I would like to know where the degradation is cause I tried with and without and there is no difference what so ever.

Originally posted by bruman
I use a RCA mech A/V selector(4 inputs 1 output/compostie/audio and s-video) and if there is a difference I would like to know where the degradation is cause I tried with and without and there is no difference what so ever.

There is an unpgraded version available now at Radioshack called "Auto-Sensing 4-Way Stereo A/V Selector" for $50. None of them offer component !!! :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Kamalis14
just curious, but couldnt you just use your surround reciever as the switch for the component videos? im not sure if this would work but i dont see why not unless you need more than inputs than the reciever has.

Yes, that can be done. And there is also the advantage of switching the components via the surround receiver remote.

Originally posted by videostorm
I'm sorry, I misunderstood the question. I thought you meant is an active switch better than a passive switch immediately followed by a distribution amp.
To answer your actual question, no switch is always better than having a switch. The distribution amp alone would be better. But for a good active switch the difference cannot be seen even with test instruments.OK, that makes sense now.The 4x1 Active Switch -> 1x4 Distribution Amp -> displays is a good setup. This is a professional quality solution. Of course I would suggest instead 4x2 Active Switch (CSW02) -> 1x3 Distribution Amp (CB003)-> displays since they are our products, provide an equivalent solution, and probably cost less. (You would have 4 outputs, 1 from CSW02 and 3 from CB003). I'll definitely consider it. It would be nice to see a package deal like you have on your 2 distribution amps. :D

I started wondering earlier, doesn't every connector present real resistance and impedance mismatch? If we're talking RCAs, not even Canare RCAP "true 75-ohm" connectors are 75-ohm. HD15 and s-video mini din are probably even worse. How do the problems introduced by connectors/adapters between source and display compare to those of a passive switch?

For example, on the projector I need to send a 480i component signal to, the input connector is a 7-pin mini din. Ideally, you'd have a single cable between the 3 RCA component source and the mini din on the PJ, but making a decent cable with 3 signal and 3 ground connections to mini din pins and fitting that all into the plug is near impossible, so you're basically stuck using the flimsy adapter. Sometimes I wonder if I'm better off using a good s-video cable, as it doesn't require an adapter.

Should I worry about return loss in these situations? At what point does it become insignificant or just impossible to prevent?

Originally posted by Noah
I started wondering earlier, doesn't every connector present real resistance and impedance mismatch? If we're talking RCAs, not even Canare RCAP "true 75-ohm" connectors are 75-ohm. HD15 and s-video mini din are probably even worse. How do the problems introduced by connectors/adapters between source and display compare to those of a passive switch?

Should I worry about return loss in these situations? At what point does it become insignificant or just impossible to prevent?

Yes, every connector does present some real resistance and impedence mismatch.
The real resistance depends on the contact resistance (connector to jack). Gold plated contacts have very low contact resistance, usually much less than 1 ohm. Tin or other contacts can have more resistance.
The a "perfect" connector has an intrisic impedence of 75 ohms. As you said, this is never really the case. A good gold plated RCA jack or BNC jack is pretty close, Din and s-video are not. You pretty much have to live with this mismatch. You can prevent it from causing problems by making sure that the connecter is physically very close to the signal termination (either load or source termination). That is another reason why a passive switch can cause problems, there is no termination inside the box.
For your projector, rca jack for component would have been best. But without that, here are two options.
1. Keep the cable short between your amp and the projector
2. If you can't have a short cable, you need to rely on the amp to cancel the reflections from the adapter. A good amp should be able to do this (needs strong drivers and matched 75ohm source imp).

Bruman -

Your av selector doesn't have component so how do you use this?
I don't want to get into the discussion of meters and such because I'm under the mindset that if I can't see it then it doesn't exist and if you claim theirs no visual loss then I believe you and I want to try this inexpensive solution.

How do you use a non-component av switch w/ component?
I have a whopping $20 bucks ready to be plunked down on this solution.
:D

Thanks.

Originally posted by videostorm
Yes, every connector does present some real resistance and impedence mismatch.
The real resistance depends on the contact resistance (connector to jack). Gold plated contacts have very low contact resistance, usually much less than 1 ohm. Tin or other contacts can have more resistance.
The a "perfect" connector has an intrisic impedence of 75 ohms. As you said, this is never really the case. A good gold plated RCA jack or BNC jack is pretty close, Din and s-video are not. You pretty much have to live with this mismatch. You can prevent it from causing problems by making sure that the connecter is physically very close to the signal termination (either load or source termination). That is another reason why a passive switch can cause problems, there is no termination inside the box.
For your projector, rca jack for component would have been best. But without that, here are two options.
1. Keep the cable short between your amp and the projector
2. If you can't have a short cable, you need to rely on the amp to cancel the reflections from the adapter. A good amp should be able to do this (needs strong drivers and matched 75ohm source imp).


When you say "A good amp", do you mean an external power supply?

I use a KVM switch with an external powersupply. When I tried different passive switches, they all had ghosting. The external powersupply fixed it instantly.

Originally posted by edwardr132
When you say "A good amp", do you mean an external power supply?

I use a KVM switch with an external powersupply. When I tried different passive switches, they all had ghosting. The external powersupply fixed it instantly.

A "good amp" is a properly designed video amplifier. They must have the following.
1. Video amp IC with accurate & matched gain of 2 (internally, 1 externally after source impedence)
2. Accurate and matched source impedence of 75 ohms
3. Video amp IC must have sufficient bandwidth for the type of video
4. Video amp IC must have sufficient dynamic current capacity to handle signal reflections.

Of course, to have any of these requires power to the amplifier. This must be from an ac outlet or adapter, it can't come from the signal.

Originally posted by videostorm
Yes, every connector does present some real resistance and impedence mismatch.
The real resistance depends on the contact resistance (connector to jack). Gold plated contacts have very low contact resistance, usually much less than 1 ohm. Tin or other contacts can have more resistance.
The a "perfect" connector has an intrisic impedence of 75 ohms. As you said, this is never really the case. A good gold plated RCA jack or BNC jack is pretty close, Din and s-video are not. You pretty much have to live with this mismatch. You can prevent it from causing problems by making sure that the connecter is physically very close to the signal termination (either load or source termination). That is another reason why a passive switch can cause problems, there is no termination inside the box.
For your projector, rca jack for component would have been best. But without that, here are two options.
1. Keep the cable short between your amp and the projector
2. If you can't have a short cable, you need to rely on the amp to cancel the reflections from the adapter. A good amp should be able to do this (needs strong drivers and matched 75ohm source imp). That's very interesting. So in this case, a distribution amp or active switch would actually improve the signal path?

I.E.,

source -> cable -> DA -> long cable -> adapter -> display

would be better than

source -> long cable -> adapter -> display

...or would the source termination accomplish the same thing? Also, are long s-video runs a bad idea because of the impedance mismatch at each end?

Sorry for all the questions. ;) I really find this stuff fascinating, though. I know not all of it will make perceivable differences, but I enjoy understanding the theory behind it. Thanks again for your insights.

I know that this has been left alone, but I also own the pelican pro system selector pro, and can guarantee that there is no loss of signal quality with so many inputs on this switcher. It is not a piece of junk, and I love the optical digital connections it offers as well. I would have loved to see coaxial digital with conversion between the 2, and a remote control, but we're talking about a hundred piece of gear from BB.

If you see a piece of hardware with the name Pelican on it, you should know what the quality is even before you use it. I bet there is a whole lot of measurable loss from that box even if you don't notice it on your display.

Originally posted by rsmith4321
If you see a piece of hardware with the name Pelican on it, you should know what the quality is even before you use it. I bet there is a whole lot of measurable loss from that box even if you don't notice it on your display.

And if the loss is not noticable then why the heck should we care about it? Another example of how this forum needs to be taken with a HUGE grain of salt.

Originally posted by Noah

source -> cable -> DA -> long cable -> adapter -> display

would be better than

source -> long cable -> adapter -> display

...or would the source termination accomplish the same thing? Also, are long s-video runs a bad idea because of the impedance mismatch at each end?


In many cases, using the DA would yield better quality. This is because the adapter will cause a rather large reflection which will travel back up the long cable to the source. Since the signal will be out of phase by the time it gets there, it will cause large spikes in voltage (ringing). The signal driver must have enough dynamic current capacity to maintain a perfect 75 ohm source impedence even during these transient conditions. If it does, the reflection is cancelled at the source and will not be seen at the display. If it does not, the reflection will travel back down the line to the display and cause ringing there.
The reason the DA will usually be better than the source is that the DA generally has better video drivers in it than the source. Most consumer video equipment uses the cheapest drivers capable of handling an average length cable (~ 6 ft). The longer the cable, the greater the reflected voltage spike. Beyond 25 ft most video drivers just can't handle it.

For S-video the impedence matching is quite bad. Also, most s-video cables are not shielded, which can lead to emi interferance.

Originally posted by UnknownShadow
And if the loss is not noticable then why the heck should we care about it? Another example of how this forum needs to be taken with a HUGE grain of salt.

You might not notice it with your display, but HDTV blown up on a projector and you will notice it, or when you get a better HD projector in the future. That's like saying it doesn't do any good to have a Faroudja in the PJ because the casual observer might not see a difference.

Originally posted by spankle
Bruman -

Your av selector doesn't have component so how do you use this?
I don't want to get into the discussion of meters and such because I'm under the mindset that if I can't see it then it doesn't exist and if you claim theirs no visual loss then I believe you and I want to try this inexpensive solution.

How do you use a non-component av switch w/ component?
I have a whopping $20 bucks ready to be plunked down on this solution.
:D

Thanks.

spankle -

I use the same thing as Bruman. The composite switch has 3 inputs (1 video, 2 audio) and we just route the 3 component inputs through the 3 inputs on the switch. Seems to work just fine for my setup. :)

Warning- Noob question

So if I want to connect my X1 projector to my DVD and Sat Receiver but at the same time still have my Sat Receiver connected to my RPTV, will a video switch help me accomplish this? Will it let me choose which display source I can use at anygiven time?

xmr405o-

You'll probably need a matrix switch in order to send multiple components to multiple displays, like this one (http://www.provantage.com/buy-22083984-cables-go-home-entertainment-theater-audio-video-switches-manual-shopping.htm) .

My apologies to rsmith for tainting his thread with another mention of the Pelican system selector pro but I'll add my thumbs-up for posterity. I'm using this switch to pass rgbhv (htpc) and component (HD cable) to my X1 and get no visible loss of PQ at any resolution as compared to a direct vga connection.

YMMV,
Sean

You might not notice it with your display, but HDTV blown up on a projector and you will notice it, or when you get a better HD projector in the future. That's like saying it doesn't do any good to have a Faroudja in the PJ because the casual observer might not see a difference.

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I challenge you to see any degradation with the Pelican.

videostorm, does the amplifier add any time delay to the video? My main concern with that is games.

Originally posted by Agilitine
videostorm, does the amplifier add any time delay to the video? My main concern with that is games.

The delay is a few nano seconds (10^-9) and matched on all channels. This is about the same as a few feet of cable, no concern at all.

Originally posted by rsmith4321
If you see a piece of hardware with the name Pelican on it, you should know what the quality is even before you use it. I bet there is a whole lot of measurable loss from that box even if you don't notice it on your display.

you should know better than basing a purchase on brand name alone...

i bought the system selector knowing about pelican's sketchy history because it fit my needs of an affordable switch with lots of inputs and flexibility to do component, s-vid, and ethernet... i was prepared to return it if it truly was junk, but i was surprised that it actually performed quite well. :cool:

I bought a component video switch from http://www.avlinx.com the other day.

I tried the cheapo one from radio shack and the video looked horrible on my projector. The avlinx one has alot higher bandwidth than everything else I saw out there. Picture is crystal clear now. I would definately recommend.

JD

That looks nice but from what I gather here it's better to have a active switch if it's good quality.

Are there any lip-sync problems with these boxes. ?? Thinking of buying one.

active switches are nice too, but they have their own problems: distortion, frequency response flatness, etc. The passive switches if built correctly will out perform any active switch for pure signal integrity which is what you should care about. I'm running the AVLinx one with 35 feet of cable to the projector and see no artifacts in the picture quality. Apparently, the impedance through the box matches up pretty well the impedance of the cable, so there is no reflections going on.

There's no lip sync problems usually associated with switches, since the delay through them is a few nanoseconds. Lipsync problems do occur in scalars where the video processing sometimes takes a long time.

I just read a few things from this thread that didn't sound right. Videostorm mentioned that active switches cost more than passive. I've designed lots of electronic boards. Electromechanical Relays aren't cheap! They cost quite a bit more than active components used in this application. Maybe videostorm can clarify that. Also, flatness across the full HDTV bandwidth of 30MHz is a must. That is the -0.1dB spec many manufactures quote if their stuff is good. Make sure that is above 30MHz and preferably even higher. Anybody having a 3dB bandwidth of less than 100MHz probably won't quote the -0.1 dB bandwidth since it won't be very good.

JD

I HAVE the pelican pl-957 switch with HDTV on it and do not notice any
degradation. Here is a real life observation, not based on scientific theory.
rsmith, have you tried this product at all. Probably not. People should
stick to hands on experience with their opinions and not influence others
based upon what they think.

All I am saying for $68, it is an inexpensive alternative for just rca switch boxes which gives you 6 component, 6 rca, 6 svideo, 3 optical, 3 ethernet.
You can spend more for a better switch, but its like saying people that
have a X1 or a 6100 need to buy a Runco to have acceptable fp.

I almost got that pelican one because it was cheap. But, then I found a web site that reviewed it and basically said it was awful. They showed the inside of it and it was the cheapo 1 sided boards they make in china. The crosstalk and bandwidth was horrible based on the scope shots. That's cool you didn't see a visual difference though. I wish I had that link.

I didn't want to waste the $3000 I spent on my HDTV projector by feeding it bad video signals.

The difference here is I HAVE the product and can give some hands on
feedback. Like I said before, people are using rca switch boxes for a inexpensive solution and this may be a better alternative. Just use decent
cables and I don't mean monster either. Afterall a switchbox is just a switch.

Originally posted by jessiedickens
I just read a few things from this thread that didn't sound right. Videostorm mentioned that active switches cost more than passive. I've designed lots of electronic boards. Electromechanical Relays aren't cheap! They cost quite a bit more than active components used in this application. Maybe videostorm can clarify that. Also, flatness across the full HDTV bandwidth of 30MHz is a must. That is the -0.1dB spec many manufactures quote if their stuff is good. Make sure that is above 30MHz and preferably even higher. Anybody having a 3dB bandwidth of less than 100MHz probably won't quote the -0.1 dB bandwidth since it won't be very good.

JD

Hi Jesse

Most passive switches on the market do not use relays, they use a silicon switch (transmission gate muxes). They do not have the low real resistance that a high quality em relay would have. There are also a few who use poor quality relays. To get a EM switch with enouph bandwidth and decent impedence matching is very expensive.
A well designed active switch will still outperform an expensive EM relay. Video is a relatively high current waveform, and should be terminated before sending it through any impedence mismatch.

I agree about the bandwidth. To handle HDTV you should have a 0.1dB bandwidth >30Mhz. Anything above that is moot, anything less will remove small details from the image.

Originally posted by zorroisback
The difference here is I HAVE the product and can give some hands on
feedback. Like I said before, people are using rca switch boxes for a inexpensive solution and this may be a better alternative. Just use decent
cables and I don't mean monster either. Afterall a switchbox is just a switch.

And all this means to us is you have a poor quality HDTV set or equipment or you are not a very discerning viewer that can see the quality loss. To me reviews and equipment test are more important that casual observance. And just from experience anything Pelican is going to be junk. It's what they are known for.

Yes, silicon switches are fairly cheap. The AVLinx one I have uses electromechancial relays as I suspect zektor does as well. That's probably why both of those aren't $70.

I disagree with you when it comes to active switches being better than passive. Anytime you have to recreate the signal there is loss. Passive switches pass the signal, not recreate it. For the frequencies of HDTV a passive switch such as AVLinx's or others is better than active switches. Properly designed passive switches have very low return loss, low crosstalk, and high bandwidth. Their problem is the higher cost of electromechanical relays which is why alot of designers choose to use either buffer chips or silicon switches.

The real question is whether the naked eye can distinguish the imperfections and how padded your pocketbook is.

JD

And all this means to us is you have a poor quality HDTV set or equipment or you are not a very discerning viewer that can see the quality loss. To me reviews and equipment test are more important that casual observance. And just from experience anything Pelican is going to be junk. It's what they are known for.

:rolleyes:

There is nothing better than when people use the infamous "us" or "they" to support a patronizing argument.

The funniest thing about this whole "debate" is that I have not heard one person who has used the Pelican switch say anything bad about it.

My eye sight is very good. I am a discerning viewer. I sit 11 ft back from an 80" screen. And my PJ is better than yours......NA NA ......NA NA NA :D .

I suppose also I should use tree trunk size cables and my quality would be acceptable. Overkill does not drastically improve quality but it does drastically hit your wallet. Sometime you have to enjoy the movie or video
game on your projector instead of constantly looking for the pixels.

The Pelican is a mediocre and acceptable alternative to INEXPENSIVE switch
boxes. It has nothing to do what it is known for, but has to do what it does from someone who actually uses it with discerning eyes.

Another Pelican user here that is happy with it but I wish it had a remote to control the switching. Seems that there are more actual Pelican owners that enjoy it, than there are people that don't have it and don't like it because of the brand. It solved the problem I had at the time in a price range I could accept. Good Luck with your search.

Originally posted by jefe noche
:rolleyes:

There is nothing better than when people use the infamous "us" or "they" to support a patronizing argument.

The funniest thing about this whole "debate" is that I have not heard one person who has used the Pelican switch say anything bad about it.

My eye sight is very good. I am a discerning viewer. I sit 11 ft back from an 80" screen. And my PJ is better than yours......NA NA ......NA NA NA :D .

I really don't care at all about this "debate". It's obvious the Pelican unit is terrible quality from testing and I wouldn't use it myself, but if you like it good for you. You just assume because you don't notice image problems that no one else will. Which may be true, or may not be, it doesn't really matter anyway. I just can't hook up something like that to a nice PJ, the signal is one of the most important things. I know monster cable is a rip off, but a good switch really can make a difference. It probably also depends on your cable length, mine is pretty long. But I haven't tried it like you say, so I have no real opinion except from other pelican products and testing.

Originally posted by rsmith4321
...I just can't hook up something like that to a nice PJ, the signal is one of the most important things.
I have to agree here. Maybe there's no visible difference between the Pelican and the Inday/Videostorm switchers, I don't know. I do know, however, that for me it's not worth taking a chance to save a measly $70 or $80. This is not the place you want to skimp. Like cables, a switcher is one of those items you don't plan on upgrading every few years. I'd rather spend the few extra $ and get something I know was built with high quality components by someone with a passion and pride in their product. Just my opinion Pelican owners. It doesn't mean you were wrong buying the unit or that it's junk. :)

We have reviewed the Pelican system selector pro.

The full review is at
http://www.video-storm.com/testdata/pelican_review.htm

Originally posted by videostorm
We have reviewed the Pelican system selector pro.

The full review is at
http://www.video-storm.com/testdata/pelican_review.htm It's great to see something like this on the test bench. I wonder if you couldn't provide some more interpretation of the results for us laymen who aren't so familiar with scoped readings and the terminology you use. Also, it would be great if you could hook up a display of some sort and try to photograph the effects of the signal degradation vs. an uncorrupted signal. That's probably above and beyond the call of duty, but if you feel so inclined, I think it would settle this debate in a hurry. ;)

Originally posted by spankle
Bruman -

Your av selector doesn't have component so how do you use this?
I don't want to get into the discussion of meters and such because I'm under the mindset that if I can't see it then it doesn't exist and if you claim theirs no visual loss then I believe you and I want to try this inexpensive solution.

How do you use a non-component av switch w/ component?
I have a whopping $20 bucks ready to be plunked down on this solution.
:D

Thanks.


yes I use a non-component av switch w/component.

walmart sells this RCA brand unit for $17. its a very small box with 4 inouts and one output.

I used Green component to yellow composite, red component to red audio , blue component to white audio.

I got the same thing Bruman. Granted I have to stand up and walk over to switch it to another input, I still think saving about a hundred bucks or so makes me feel warm all over. And I thank the guys here at AVSforum for such a frugal yet functional solution.

Originally posted by videostorm
We have reviewed the Pelican system selector pro.

The full review is at
http://www.video-storm.com/testdata/pelican_review.htm

I just read your post and after I clicked the link and read the review it sounded a little biased to me, so I went to your main page. I was really turned off when I discover that you sell a competing product! I can't say much about the readings on your scope but I can tell anybody from first hand use that the Pelican Pro works great! The construction is not the best but I cannot see any degradation in the picture Quality, since I have 6 sources for Video this unit was one of the best options for me and at $99 it's a no brainer. Whenever I read posts on AVS I always take them with a grain of salt because price seems to rule out commen sense! If I sell something for $99 it's considered to be Crap, but if I re-label it and put a $500 price tag, all of a sudden it becomes great.
My advice for those of you who want a switch that does everything, take a good look at the Pelican Pro.

Just did a 1080I test using discovery Channel HD, The pelican pro produced a perfect picture. There goes that theory that it will not work at anything greater that 480P.

Originally posted by jgarth
Just did a 1080I test using discovery Channel HD, The pelican pro produced a perfect picture. There goes that theory that it will not work at anything greater that 480P.

Jgarth,

I'm sorry that you feel my technical evaluation of the Pelican product is biased. Nevertheless, that is how the product performs using actual video signals in the described method.
We use the test instrument (oscilloscope) to measure and report the results because it is very difficult to accurately capture and reproduce the video image. The CCD in the camera has a non-linear and variable transfer function, and the end display device (your monitor) is generally not matched either. The oscilloscope image of the video waveform can be easily captured and shown.
The oscilloscope waveform is corresponds EXACTLY with what will be displayed on the screen (it is a capture of the video signal waveform). Small distortions and reflections are much easier to see in this manner. For example, the 2ft cable ringing on the signal edges shown in the review are easily seen on the scope image. In the video picture, it would look like a small variation in contrast within 1-2 pixels of a black to white transition. Most people would not see this unless it is pointed out to them. Nevertheless, the distortion is real.
The reason our report states that the product is not suited to HDTV is that it has 6.2 dB loss at the max HDTV frequency. That means that the high frequency data in the image will be reduced by about 1/2. Visually fine lines will be dimmer. Once again many people would not notice this, and it is very hard to see in a moving picture. But it IS there.

This is not marketing hype, it is actual test results. Concluding that a product is perfect just because you don't see anything wrong in a limited test is a big assumption.

Some people want the make sure that they are getting the best picture possible out of their thousand+ doller HDTV. For those people, they should get a ~$130-$150 quality switch from the internet. Other people just want something that looks fine to them. They should buy the $99 switch at BB.

Sorry for the long speech. I'm just trying to be helpful. Please buy/recommend whatever product you like best.

Some people want the make sure that they are getting the best picture possible out of their thousand+ doller HDTV. For those people, they should get a ~$130-$150 quality switch from the internet. Other people just want something that looks fine to them. They should buy the $99 switch at BB.


that pretty much sums it up. if you have a $5000 video system, then you probably have no problems getting the best accessories including $500 switches or $200 cables...

for my low budget set-up, the pelican was a great solution. it's definitely not 'junk' and i paid a bit less than MSRP...

alot of guys on here dont and own X1's...etc

I cant see the difference with or without my cheap RCA mech switch. tried again today and I just cannot find the difference.

I am thinking of buying either a AA or Video Storm but I really think these items are a little overpriced for what they are. I find it hard to believe that one of these units costs as much to make as a new Zenith DVB 318 which has an expensive chipset and more build to them.

still I am curious If I would see a difference with an active switch.

bruman...thank you for your frugal solution. I just bought the $17 RCA switchbox from Walmart and saw no perceivable degradation in DVD or cable HD image quality on my 120" screen.

Originally posted by videostorm
Jgarth,

I'm sorry that you feel my technical evaluation of the Pelican product is biased. Nevertheless, that is how the product performs using actual video signals in the described method.
.
.
The reason our report states that the product is not suited to HDTV is that it has 6.2 dB loss at the max HDTV frequency. That means that the high frequency data in the image will be reduced by about 1/2. Visually fine lines will be dimmer. Once again many people would not notice this, and it is very hard to see in a moving picture. But it IS there.

This is not marketing hype, it is actual test results. Concluding that a product is perfect just because you don't see anything wrong in a limited test is a big assumption.

Some people want the make sure that they are getting the best picture possible out of their thousand+ doller HDTV. For those people, they should get a ~$130-$150 quality switch from the internet. Other people just want something that looks fine to them. They should buy the $99 switch at BB.

Sorry for the long speech. I'm just trying to be helpful. Please buy/recommend whatever product you like best.

While I don't doubt what your tests show and I agree with you that many people won’t mind spending $150+ when they have a $5000 TV, the real question is whether they will actually see any difference with a more expensive unit with better quality components, especially when they are trading away so much more in versatility! It's similar to when I hear someone talk about being able to hear the difference with "Monster Cables" I always start to chuckle. It's in people’s nature to spend big bucks on accessories for expensive items and then syke themselves into seeing the difference. I thank you for your review, it was indeed interesting, I would love to see a visual side by side image comparison with your switch to show any defects the pelican is producing.

Well, there certainly has been some vigorous defending of the Pelican by its owners. That carries at least a little weight in the ongoing argument. These sort of discussions tend to go downhill in a hurry. Everyone wants to feel that they made the right choices in their HT purchases. Everyone wants to think that they're getting the best picture they possibly can out of their setup. Everyone wants to believe that they found a bargain. When someone critiques your equipment, emotions can elevate.

Some believe that it's foolish to spend $150 on a video switcher when you can buy one for considerably less. After all, any differences between an "expensive" switcher and a cheaper one must be imagined. Only those with high end equipment can possibly justify the purchase of a $150 switcher. I couldn't disagree more with every single one of these points.

The fact is, a high quality switcher is not a luxury item. We're not talking about a $3000 speaker cable vs a $30 one, we're talking about a $150 video switcher vs a $99 one. Is there a visible difference between switchers? I don't have a clue. But I bet you don't either. I would imagine most people comparing the Pelican signal with the unswitched signal are having to swap cables. I would submit that the possible degradation being introduced by the Pelican would be extremely hard to spot unless you could compare images side by side. The subtle differences might not be noticeable when viewing one image after the other. One thing's for sure, there certainly appears to be differences between switchers when they're put to the oscilloscope. For me, that alone is worth the marginal outlay in cash. Feeling good about your purchase and having peace of mind count for something. Whether your equipment is high end or bare bones, it all starts with the signal. Wondering whether I'm sacrificing PQ in order to save $50 is not worth it to me. And I don't have a $5000 projector.

When it comes right down to it, everyone's needs are different and everyone's opinions vary. I said it in my prior post, but I'll say it again. I'm not criticizing anyone for purchasing the Pelican and I'm not calling the unit junk. I'm just trying to present the other side of the story - the reasons why someone would choose against the Pelican and go with the more expensive units.

Its like this:

I have a Indy race car that can go 200 mph but the speed limits
are just 65 - 75.

I built a house with 2 x 12 walls for the extra insulation, but it would
take me 1000 years to recover the cost.

I bought $500 pair of Nike basketball shoes, but can't really play bball
that well.

I bought a $3000 denon receiver for the best dolby digital, but all
I do is play dvds.

I bought a $2000 new computer with the top of the line Pentium processor, but I all do is play cards and internet surf.

I used 8 gauge speaker wire but it wont fit in my speaker jacks,however,
its got to be better because its thicker.

I think you may be missing an important point. When I bought my Video Storm last month, I wasn't really thinking about the performance. I bought it because I liked the remote control feature and needed the two outputs.
After I received it, I compared it with the push button component switch I had. The Video Storm did give better PQ, seems like the details are more defined. But even if they were the same I still would have been happy because I bought it for other reasons.

There is no point other than your personal point. The thread
talked mainly over inexpensive component switching. Your need
for a remote is late in this thread. Reread the thread to get the gist of it.

Good reading. Thanks to everyone taking time to post/defend their purchase/product. It makes my decision all the easier.

Does anyone make a good amplified one with more than 4 inputs, I need like 8.

edit: Actually could you connect two of these things together (say like the video storm) without any real time delay or signal loss?

Just found one with 8 connections,but it was $1500.....

Originally posted by crumbaker
Does anyone make a good amplified one with more than 4 inputs, I need like 8.

edit: Actually could you connect two of these things together (say like the video storm) without any real time delay or signal loss?

Just found one with 8 connections,but it was $1500.....

I don't know of any 8 input amplified switches. You can use 2 CSW02s to get 7 inputs, or 3 CSW02s to get 10 inputs.

Signal loss and time delay is doubled when you connect 2 active switches, but since both are negligible on the CSW02 there is no loss of quality.

I think I'm going to just use a cable splitter (since right now I really only need 5 inputs), and one switcher. What kind if any signal loss would I be getting from going that route? Since the cable I have split will only be using one of the devices at one time will there be no loss?

Also is there an avsforum discount videostorm? ;)

Originally posted by crumbaker
I think I'm going to just use a cable splitter (since right now I really only need 5 inputs), and one switcher. What kind if any signal loss would I be getting from going that route? Since the cable I have split will only be using one of the devices at one time will there be no loss?

Also is there an avsforum discount videostorm? ;)

Cable splitters (passive) will severely distort your signal. Two reasons:
1. Major reflections from the cable stub. This can be minimized by very short cables, but your results will vary.
2. Video drivers will have 3.6 db loss at all frequencies when driving two loads (about 33% of your signal).

What do you mean by using only one device at a time? If the cable is connected to the device, it will still be terminated (even if the power is off).

Our sale right now is $22 off and free shipping (till the end of august).

I bought the Matrix switcher from AVtools and not sure if it is the same unit or from the same company as the Pelican but comes in the exact same case. I returned it after about 60 days. At first I thought it worked fine but after some time I started noticing some video degration and noise. Once I noticed it I could not stop seeing it and the switch was basically junk to my eyes.. So in the mean time I went back to my cheapo RadioShack A/V switch (manual switch) and everything works great. Because the RS A/S switch is manual it does not require all the high-tech circuity. Anyways I am too lazy to get off my @ss to switch the RS A/V switch so I ordered a VideoStorm 4x2 matrix switch. Will report back once it comes in and I have used it a bit..

I'm still just temporarily using an RCA manual switch from wal-mart. It doesn't seem to cause any signal loss that I can see myself, it helps I'm sure that it's just a manual switch. One thing I notice is that the audio has a secondary output on the front of the box for headphones or small speakers. That would indicate to me that inside the unit the audio portion of the signal is being split between the rca output and the front headphone output. This seems like it could cause a problem, I don't know. But for the $17 it's a good temporary fix. I would rather get up and switch something manually than have signal loss with a pelican switch. Maybe one of these days I can get the videostorm unit.

I like the Videostorm model a lot, but the audio seems to be limited to mono and the jacks aren't even color coded for the audio (granted you could probably use that as a coaxial digital audio toggle). The diagram of the back of the unit looks pretty confusing. Not having stereo audio switching is unacceptable.

I would like it if Videostorm could manufacture an additional product for its switching line that had more inputs plus audio inputs and maybe even digital audio inputs as well. I'd like to see AT LEAST 6 component inputs. I only have 4 devices that use component right now, but I might get something else in the future, and I don't want to have a Frankenstein combination of two 4 input switches. I only need one output, which would go to Mr. TV.

I'm using a 9 dollar Pelican a/v switcher that was made about seven years ago. It's made for right-left audio, and composite video. It works perfectly. So why all the fuss and expenditure?

Originally posted by Joe Redifer
I like the Videostorm model a lot, but the audio seems to be limited to mono and the jacks aren't even color coded for the audio (granted you could probably use that as a coaxial digital audio toggle). The diagram of the back of the unit looks pretty confusing. Not having stereo audio switching is unacceptable.

I would like it if Videostorm could manufacture an additional product for its switching line that had more inputs plus audio inputs and maybe even digital audio inputs as well. I'd like to see AT LEAST 6 component inputs. I only have 4 devices that use component right now, but I might get something else in the future, and I don't want to have a Frankenstein combination of two 4 input switches. I only need one output, which would go to Mr. TV.

The videostorm doesn't have digital audio?

It looked like it did to me.

http://www.video-storm.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CSW02

I am about to buy one of these.

My old receiver which still works ok for sound only has 1 input for optical digital audio and 1 input for coax digital audio. I run one component video cable to my projector (which means a lot of switching cables around).

This device should be a nice stop-gap measure until I can afford a new receiver.

OK I see it is meant for digital audio and that's why only the mono input. It still would be nice to have orange connectors (for the coaxial) and proper labeling for everything without having to refer to the diagram. Also, optical would be nice, espcially the ability to convert between coaxial and optical which I don't think would be difficult at all to implement.

Yeah, I just looked and it seems this one isn't going to work for me. I need optical, not coax. In fact, I think I only have one device that even does digital audio over coax.

I guess I need to keep looking.

Originally posted by Joe Redifer
I like the Videostorm model a lot, but the audio seems to be limited to mono and the jacks aren't even color coded for the audio (granted you could probably use that as a coaxial digital audio toggle). The diagram of the back of the unit looks pretty confusing. Not having stereo audio switching is unacceptable.

I would like it if Videostorm could manufacture an additional product for its switching line that had more inputs plus audio inputs and maybe even digital audio inputs as well. I'd like to see AT LEAST 6 component inputs. I only have 4 devices that use component right now, but I might get something else in the future, and I don't want to have a Frankenstein combination of two 4 input switches. I only need one output, which would go to Mr. TV.

We do have a new model coming out in the 1st week of Oct. The CSM42 will support analog audio, digital audio coax & optical (as well as transcoding them), and hdtv component video. It still has four inputs and two outputs, but has added matrix switching capability.

I just saw that model. Looks like the price is up there, but it may be an option for sure since the video/audio switching is integrated vs something like inday.

Looks like the new model will be closer to what I would like, that's for sure. Of course the perfect thing would be the Pelican switcher but with Videostorm quality in all areas, plus the ability to transcode between optical and coaxial like the CSM412, optical and coaxial connectors for each input, the ability to show composite and S-video inputs out of the component output. Of course I am dreaming, as that would be something that would be insanely expensive.

My current switcher is the JVC JX 777 (or is it JSX 777?) Anyway it does a fantastic job, but only has two component inputs. Does the JVC that I have lose quality like the Pelican does? I've never seen a review of this unit anywhere.

Joe,

I don't know about the JVC JX 777, I have never tested one. They are a bit too expensive for us to buy one for eval. If you would like to send it to us we could test the audio/component video ports. Our testing is non-destructive :)

How are those of you using the Walmart switcher handling the audio from all of your sources?

Originally posted by Chopper Dave
How are those of you using the Walmart switcher handling the audio from all of your sources?

Most receivers will have enough audio inputs for most needs. With my cheap (Radio Shack) manual switch I only control the video with the switch and run all audio directly to the receiver. Takes an extra button push on the remote or a macro..

RK

I went with the Zektor HDS4 (http://www.zektor.com/hds4/index.htm) switch for my current setup.

I've had this unit for the better part of a year and it has performed beautifully. As my home theatre system expands I plan to add another one. This switch was one of the only ones at the time I could find that supported everything I was looking for. I was a bit leary in my purchase, as I had never spent so much on an A/V switch before. It has proven to be an excellent investment however.

-Lowpro

I've ordered the Video Storm CSM42 and hopefully it gets here to Singapore quickly. Looks like it's got most of the features I need, esp. toslink switching. Will give my feedback on it when it comes.

So why is it that every manufacturer seems to think that we'd never need more than 4 inputs? Do manufacturers of such items not know of the existence of current generation video game consoles, all of which use component and two of which use toslink digital? 4 really seems to be the magic number with these switchers. Who will step up to the plate besides Pelican?

Originally posted by Joe Redifer
So why is it that every manufacturer seems to think that we'd never need more than 4 inputs? Do manufacturers of such items not know of the existence of current generation video game consoles, all of which use component and two of which use toslink digital? 4 really seems to be the magic number with these switchers. Who will step up to the plate besides Pelican?

I agree. If Zektor offered a 8 input switch I would have bought that instead of my HDS4. I bought the HDS4 for my 3 Sony DVD changers and an Xbox. I don't need additional inputs right now, but would like the room for expansion. Currently I am out of available component video inputs.

-Lowpro

Is Model CSM42 shipping yet?

My kids have already broken a set of component video cables moving them around so much. However, I am not willing to get a switch unless it has video and digital audio.

CSM42 will be shipping by the end of the week (10/9), worst case early next week.

Any kind of special discount for AVSForum members? I would PM but you don't have it turned on.

It is $50 off till the end of the week (pre-order special). PM should work, I get them from other people? Is there something I need to set?

my bad, it works fine

Hi,

I recently purchased a cheap video/audio mechanical switchbox with 3 sets of rca inputs and one output. Well I tried using this for my projector as I have an xbox, set top box and dvd player. This did not work. I then opened the case and saw the internals. Basically there were 3 sets of resistors and a simple slider switch - thats all.

The values of the resistors were as follows:
Video - 75 ohm, 5%
2 x audio - 47,000 ohm, 5%

I presume why it didn't work was because the 2 audio resistances were too high and this was attenuating the component signals.

So to get this to work, I will have to replace the 47,000 ohm resistors with 75 ohm resistors - is this right?

I guess I have 2 questions - Why does the audio have such high values of resistance and how would this compare to the Pelican selector? The internals of the pelican selector looks soooo much more complicated than this switch box which is quite literally just 9 resistors (for the 3 inputs) and a mechanical slider switch.

vsjam,

Analog audio is usually terminated with a high resistor (such as 47K). Using a 75 ohm on analog audio will greatly attenuate it. This is because the voltage is split between the source impedence and the termination impedence, audio source impedence is usually around 600 ohms.

I am suprised the video inputs have 75 ohm termination. If this is a passive switch (not powered), the video should NOT be terminated. Of course, no termination is a bad thing also for reasons discussed earlier (reflections etc). But if you do not have a powered amplifier terminating the signal in the box will attenuate the signal by ~1/3 at all frequencies. Not to mention that you should never use 5% resistors for matched video anyway.

The Pelican is unterminated on all channels, and uses relays controlled by a microprocessor. It also has a power transformer inside.

If you want to use that switch box for HD component, remove all the resistors.

hmmm thats for your reply. Now I'm wondering if I should use a switch box at all...

I realised that I could also put a set of leads connected to each device and one for the projector as well. Then just use a rca female-female joiner like this www1.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=PA3564

The reason why I am contemplating this is because I used to remove/insert a video cable quite often switching between xbox and dvd player. This has now become loose and it drops out the signal and requires 'jiggling' to get a signal through. I was using this as a stop gap measure until I got my projector and now that I have have discarded the dodgy cable.

I presume this setup will be better than a switch and better than plugging one set of cables to the rear of my devices (due to wear and tear and also the awkwardness of reaching to the rear of the devices).

Are the losses using 2 sets of 1.5m cables joined using a female-female joiner significant compared to using 1 set of 1.5m cables with no joiner?

Thankyou videostorm

I you are willing to spend around $130, the best thing you can do is buy an active switch. No lose of video quality, no manual switching, and it will not wear out over time.

If you don't want to spend the money, go ahead and "hot plug" the connectors whenever you want to switch sources. The rca-rca adapters will not cause any big problems with 1.5m cables. You will get occasional contact problems as the connectors wear out etc, but then just buy new adapters/cables.

Videostorm, I lost track of this thread a while back. Any plans to introduce a product that switches more than 4 component inputs?

Just got my mom to get the videostorm for my birthday. Works great and I can't say I have any complaints. My mom said soemthing about a free 3 year warranty. Anyways if you happen to see this please email me at crumbaker@gmail.com if there's any way I can get this.

The 3 year warranty is standard.

Originally posted by Josh Z
Videostorm, I lost track of this thread a while back. Any plans to introduce a product that switches more than 4 component inputs?

Josh,

Here is a link to our new product ideas:

http://www.video-storm.com/toast_vs/toast.asp?sub=show&action=posts&fid=3&tid=61

An 8 input switch is on the page, but there is no nearterm plan for production.

Originally posted by videostorm
An 8 input switch is on the page, but there is no nearterm plan for production.

Thanks for the info. That would be nice if it came to be, but the $599 price point is out of my range. I was hoping for something like the CSW02 but with just a couple more component video inputs.

You can always cascade 2 csw02 to get 7 inputs. Since they are active there is no loss of quality.

Originally posted by videostorm
You can always cascade 2 csw02 to get 7 inputs. Since they are active there is no loss of quality.

Too much clutter!

Anyone tried this ? It is 4 component input and 2 output. It also has built in amplifier and it costs only 69 USD.

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog_name=CTLG&category_name=CTLG_007_002_008_000&product_id=15-1927

Just an update, our CSW62 has 6 inputs, 2 outputs and will be released at the end of this month. It also has DC restoration which is a nice feature you won't find anywhere else.

(Sorry for the extra post)
Also the 8 input, 4 output switch (CRM84) will be released this october. It will also have the dc restoration and HDMI/DVI switching thrown in.

(Sorry for the extra post)
Also the 8 input, 4 output switch (CRM84) will be released this october. It will also have the dc restoration and HDMI/DVI switching thrown in.

How many of the switches will be component and how many HDMI or DVI? Will you be adding any Toslink audio inputs along with the coax?

Anyone tried this ? It is 4 component input and 2 output. It also has built in amplifier and it costs only 69 USD.

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog_name=CTLG&category_name=CTLG_007_002_008_000&product_id=15-1927

I tried this product last weekend - total garbage. The signal was degraded so badly that it was unwatchable. I guess you get what you pay for.

-Mike

Josh,
The CRM84 will have 8 input channels, 4 output channels. Each channel will have all of the following:
HD component video
analog audio
digital audio coax
digital audio toslink

It will also have 3 DVI inputs & 3 hdmi inputs, switched to 1 hdmi output.

Josh,
The CRM84 will have 8 input channels, 4 output channels. Each channel will have all of the following:
HD component video
analog audio
digital audio coax
digital audio toslink

It will also have 3 DVI inputs & 3 hdmi inputs, switched to 1 hdmi output.

If I'm reading you right, does this mean that at any one time you will be able to switch either:

- 8 component video inputs
or
- 2 component video inputs, 3 HDMI inputs, and 3 DVI inputs
or
- Any combination of the above that adds up to no more than 8 channels

Is that right?

If there is only 1 HDMI output, does that mean there are 3 component video outputs, or 4?

What are the expected prices for the CSW62 and CRM84?

No, the HDMI/DVI switching is completely seperate from the component switching. You will have 8 component inputs with 4 outputs, AND 6 DVI/HDMI inputs with 1 output.

The CSW62 is $159, available now. The CRM84 I don't have the pricing yet, but I would expect the $500 range.

Wow, that's even better. Will the CRM84 be fully HDCP compliant with both HDMI and DVI?

I use the cheaper JVC model with no audio (since I have enuff inputs on my receiver). Here's the more expensive model with audio:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00006I5D1/ref=pd_luc_23_lc_ax40_r1c1_a1_t/002-6221610-1660854?v=glance&s=electronics

Wow, that's even better. Will the CRM84 be fully HDCP compliant with both HDMI and DVI?

Yes, it will also have equalization (on DVI/HDMI) for long cable lengths.

ANYBODY have the cables to go 4 to 2 matrix switcher ???If so can you see any difference in picture quality from HD programs?I'm very interested in this product!email me if you want to go into detail about this product!

I see no difference.

I'm interested in the "Cables to Go" 4 into 2 switcher also.
I believe it's made be Impact Acoustics.
Has anyone tried this one?
Please post some feedback.
Thanks.

That's the one that I have. It works great and it's remote control too. No loss of signal at all. Very happy with it.

OK.....I took a leap of faith and bought the Cables to GO 4 to 2 Matrix switcher....and likejohnny said there is absolutely no loss of signal or picture degradation..I LOVE IT...no more getting up to switch components ANYMORE!I have it ran to my Toshiba HDTVand the second output goes to PJ...with a simple button mash I can switch at will!Get this you will not be dissatisfied!:D

what is really cool is with my TV (65" HDTV) I only have one 1080i input. The rest are 480P so with this switcher I can have everything running through that one input and can have more than 1 1080i source.

This will come in handy when XBox360 or PS3 comes out since I already have and upconverting dvd, and an HD STB.

This is one of the best additions to my HT.

Thanks alot for your input guys.
That's the one I'm getting also.

I hate to bring this up seeing that you guys are happy with the cabletogo switch, but here goes...

The Cables to go switch (http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat%5Fid=3103&sku=40020) is based on the same Tiawanese ODM design as the AVToolbox 5842 (http://www.avtoolbox.com/images/avt-5842mx-front.gif) and the Shinybow HD-5470 (http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/msg_search.php?text=component%20video%20switcher). The boxes are the same, just the labels are different. The internal electronics are identical.

We extensively tested this design and found that it falls way short of its given specs. You can see our full review here http://www.video-storm.com/testdata/shinybow_review.htm

Now although our report is completely factual, you may want to keep in mind that it was written by video experts who are used to evaluating professional quality electronics. When they state that this switch isn't fit for even 480p, they mean the performance is degraded. However, most people are just not that picky.

You can see a loss of high frequencies visually with a fine line pattern in 480p, but you have to use a video image where you would notice it. For 720p/1080i you will be loosing more details, but once again it is not completely unacceptable for many people.

Anyway, just something to think about. If you are concerned about absolute performance, I would recommend a better design for HD sources. If it looks fine to you, no need to be concerned.

Thanks Videostorm - You have some sweet stuff on your site :)

I'm not surprised with the numbers on paper. I cannot see ANY degredation at all. I work in R and D and am well aware of what lengths professionals in technical fields are willing to go to when testing. I'm sure that my Monster Power HTS2500 soften the signals it passes too. I can't tell you the number of times I am visited by vendors with an "improved or better" products and just dismissing the products because they just aren't worth the $$$. Sometimes we are just too close to our work and think that small differences are signifigant.

If I were you guys I would not worry about the switcher. Unless you want to spend more on a box that does the same thing and and only you improvment you can see are on a chart gerenated by a software program testing the machine. There are bigger varibles in our systems than the switch in most HTs. When testing in a controlled environ. these differences may be visible.

I guess the operative word is "professional". We either enjoy our system or nit pick. I know this is the AV Science forum and that is all we seem to do here.

Later
JK

I can't find if this has be asked before... How does the component switches found on some receivers compare?

My Pioneer VSX812 receiver already has 2 component inputs. I find this very convenient as it can remotely switch video and digital audio at the same time. Also, it is "free" with the receiver.

For example, I can buy this (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4153_209695979_tab=B,00.html?compName=PNA_ProductDet ailComponent) Pioneer receiver with 3 component switcher for almost the same price as a dedicated switch box.

Should I buy a dedicated component switcher instead?

Also, many component switchers have only RedGreenBlue+RedWhite(audio). Can I simply use one of the audio with a coaxial cable for digital dolby into the receiver?

Thanks.

Great thread. I thought I knew what I was going to get but then this thread came along. Lot's of great info. Keep it coming!

this will work?

i want to connect my dvd player, xbox to my projector and TV...

http://www.avtoolbox.com/avt5842.shtml

You bet it will.

thanks!

SuperGoop,

You can use the analog audio channel for digital audio, but don't do it for long cables. The reason is the termination is incorrect. Since the signal is digital, over short cables this has no significant effect. On long cables, it will increase the SNR to a point where it will start to impair clock recovery at the receiver. That in turn will cause bit errors which sound pretty bad in some cases.

If you need longer cables, you need to use a 75ohm terminated active driver.

Hey all, sorry to bring this thread from the grave, but thought it would be better than cluttering the forums with a new thread. I am interested in purchasing a high quality component video switch box for my 37" Sharp Aquos LCD TV. I will be connecting a high definition 1080i camcorder (Sony HDR-HC1), progressive scan DVD recorder, digital satellite box and maybe a Blu-Ray/HD-DVD player in the future. All video formats are PAL in my country. Would the Video Storm CSW02 (http://www.video-storm.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CSW02) be suitable for these devices? I really don't want ANY quality loss... especially from the camcorder. I'll appreciate any info/opinions.

The CSW02 has been measured to have ~0.1dB loss at 1080i. This is effectively zero loss, barely detectable with dedicated test scopes.

Another option is CSW62, which gives you 2 more inputs and DC level correction. The dc level correction is a really nice feature, it can even clean up offset errors from the source.

Thanks for the quick reply. Would the CSW62 be compatible with PAL video? If so, I might be very interested in buying it.

ok, i got my international visa.. so is time to choose the switcher.. i need at least 2 output.. and i´m looking for a "complete" system.. what i mean by complete is to be able to switch not only video but audio as well with different type of connection, digital, coaxil, component, svhs, etc..

Of course. i can´t go too high with the price.

I watch the pelican pro system but unfortunly it has only 1 output...

any recomendation?

Just an update, our CSW62 has 6 inputs, 2 outputs and will be released at the end of this month. It also has DC restoration which is a nice feature you won't find anywhere else.

Hello videostorm. Just to clarify....what kind of inputs are on the CSW62? HDMI? DVI? Component? All three? PLease give an outline on the inputs/outputs. And how is it different from the CSW84?

Also why is the CSW84 $500 and the 62 is only $159?

My suggestion is to try the Radio Shack Component Switcher. Here is a link:
http://www.radioshack.com/product.a...ct%5Fid=15-1927

It is only $70.00. You could always return it. It has a very good PQ not matter what the signal is (480P, 720P, or 1080i). It passes through all signals. And it has learning IR remote features. It works wonderfully with my Harmony 659 remote. It also outputs to 2 seperate displays simultaneously. It also has 4 Optical Inputs.

curtis104,
Thanks for the reply... i tried the link but it didn´t work, could you post the model at least, so i can search it on radioshack?

Thanks again.

Ps, what display are you using?.. i ask this coz my display will be a Projector.. since it has a big screen you can see bad siganls easier than a normal tv...

it is this one?

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F010%5F011%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D1927#

damn, i just notice they don´t do international shipping :(

My Displays are a 36" RCA Monitor and an Infocus X1.

ok, need advice, i find a local supplyer who does sell Switcher.. it tell me it is a PASSIVE switcher and i won´t be loosing any signal at all.

My question is, Passive Switchers are good enough? or i should avoid them?

thanks

That switch has 2 outputs, so if it is passive that is a very bad thing. Essentially the same as using a Y cable to split component video, which is a big problem.

Passive switches are ok as long as it only has 1 output and you are using relatively short cables.

Just an update, our CSW62 has 6 inputs, 2 outputs and will be released at the end of this month. It also has DC restoration which is a nice feature you won't find anywhere else.

Hello videostorm. Just to clarify....what kind of inputs are on the CSW62? HDMI? DVI? Component? All three? PLease give an outline on the inputs/outputs. And how is it different from the CSW84?

Also why is the CSW84 $500 and the 62 is only $159?

I think someone kind of mentioned this, but I'm going to ask it more clearly. Why is there a need for a switch if you have a good AV Receiver? I can run several component inputs into my Elite Pioneer Receiver, then run a single component output to the projector. Are people just connecting so many things that they need the switch or is there a real quality issue? Thanks.
Jim

CSW62 has 6 component video (hd) inputs & 2 outputs. It does not have any audio, and is not a matrix switch (both outputs are from the same selected input).

CRM84 has 8 component inputs & 4 outputs (matrix)+ supports full audio (digital & analog). It has an optional DVI/HDMI card that adds 6 dvi/hdmi inputs and 1 output. (799)

CRM62 has 6 component inputs & 2 outputs (matrix)+ supports full audio (digital & analog). It has an optional DVI/HDMI card that adds 6 dvi/hdmi inputs and 1 output. (399)

All of these have DC level correction on the video outputs. Does this clear it up a bit? The full product pages for the CRMs should be up by this weekend (CSW62 is already there).

I think someone kind of mentioned this, but I'm going to ask it more clearly. Why is there a need for a switch if you have a good AV Receiver? I can run several component inputs into my Elite Pioneer Receiver, then run a single component output to the projector. Are people just connecting so many things that they need the switch or is there a real quality issue? Thanks.
Jim

In general it should be ok. Here are few cases when it might not:

1. You need more than one output
2. The receiver has less than ~50 Mhz bandwidth
3. You are driving long cables (more than ~ 15 ft)
4. You own too many sources :D

Is the Video Storm CSW62 compatible with PAL video? Also, I was reading an article (http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,121777,pg,3,00.asp) on pcworld.com and came across this info:

Virtually every consumer component cable uses RCA-style jacks. Originally used for analog audio connections, RCA plugs have an impedance of about 50 ohms, creating unavoidable impedance mismatches at both ends of a cable. How well a cable manages the impedance at every point of the cable, not just at the connectors, affects its performance. But the impedance mismatch between a cable's wires and its RCA connectors has far more impact on performance than any other attribute.

Now I don't exactly know what all this technical jargon means, but it doesn't sound good. How does the CSW62 get around this problem?

CSW62 is compatible with PAL video.

RCA jacks in general are not the best connectors in terms of impedence matching. Nevertheless, they are industry standard so we must use them. Any mismatch in the connector will create a reflection, which in turn must be cancelled by either the source or load. Our products have precision source & load termination, plus high dynamic current drivers which are capable of cancelling these reflections without impact to the signal.

Passive switches by their nature do not have a proper load termination, so these mismatches will cause issues for long cables. Similar problems can occur if the source driver has too much high frequency source resistance. We have made sure that our products circumvent both these issues.

Thanks for clearing that up :)

Hi folks,

I'm looking for a switch w/ 7-8 inputs to 1 output. It needs to handle digital optical audio, s-video, and component video (no conversion necessary). I currently have a Pelican System Selector Pro which has been great to me for the past 2 years, but I'd like to upgrade to something of higher quality that supports switching via remote control. Any suggestions?

Hi folks,

I'm looking for a switch w/ 7-8 inputs to 1 output. It needs to handle digital optical audio, s-video, and component video (no conversion necessary). I currently have a Pelican System Selector Pro which has been great to me for the past 2 years, but I'd like to upgrade to something of higher quality that supports switching via remote control. Any suggestions?
I thought the newer Pelicans were shipping with small IR remotes? I've also read here and elsewhere that the Pelican has no quality loss as a pass-through. Would you disagree with this? I'm looking for the same as you but had my eyes on the Pelican.

Is there such a switch as this?

6 Component Inputs
6 Optical Audio Inputs
1 Component Output
1 Optical Audio Output
HDTV bandwidth for 1080i and 720p
Price < $200

I saw one mention of the Audio Authority 1154a earlier in this thread. It meets all the requirements except there are only 4 Inputs instead of 6. Any opinions on this unit?

EBGames has a $20 switcher. It's a 4 way switcher and it's mechanical but it does have some nice features:

It has 4 component inputs, each is paired with audio inputs as well as standard RCA video input

Each port also has ethernet switched (it's made for game systems).

I got one and plan to use it to switch between Xbox, PS2, Tivo and HDCable until I can get my new stereo with component upscaling.

Not glamorous but I think it will do the job.

I thought the newer Pelicans were shipping with small IR remotes? I've also read here and elsewhere that the Pelican has no quality loss as a pass-through. Would you disagree with this? I'm looking for the same as you but had my eyes on the Pelican.
I have noticed no quality loss while using it... DVDs, HDTV (Digital Cable from TWC), and my game consoles all look great. Granted, I only have a 34" HD CRT (Toshiba 34HFX84). Some folks out there w/ a high-end pj and an 80" picture may notice some artifacts I guess. Personally, it's been really good to me. Sadly, my Pelican did not come w/ a remote. I'd even be willing to drop another $100 for a new one if they came w/ a remote. I did some digging around and couldn't confirm or deny if they now do.

Is there such a switch as this?

6 Component Inputs
6 Optical Audio Inputs
1 Component Output
1 Optical Audio Output
HDTV bandwidth for 1080i and 720p
Price < $200

I saw one mention of the Audio Authority 1154a earlier in this thread. It meets all the requirements except there are only 4 Inputs instead of 6. Any opinions on this unit?
The Pelican System Selector Pro pretty closely matches this, except it's only got 4 optical audio inputs with the other 4 being RCAs. The AA 1154a is a popular one, and looks really good. I'd be all over it if it had more inputs. AA has a model KDMSW8X3 which has 8 inputs and 3 outputs. It's a bit overkill for me, plus the price is sky-high ($1500+). If anyone knows of a decent quality box that offers everything the Pelican has, plus a remote, I'd love to hear about it!

We have an excellent quality six input remote controlled switch for less than $200. It doesn't have optical audio, but it does have dual outputs and dc level correction.

http://www.video-storm.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CSW62

We also have a full engineering breakdown of the pelican pro on our site (under video info). It is not professional quality and does have some loss and interference, but isn't too bad overall.

I am just worried about creating a new problem with a video switcher that has 6 inputs and no audio inputs. I will now have plenty of video inputs and not enough audio inputs and I will have to go looking for a seperate optical audio switcher. Why don't you guys include audio switching on your products? I also lik the idea of the auto sensing switch on the AA unit. Any reason you guys don't do that?

Has anyone considered purchasing a refurb receiver to use as a switcher? For example, yesterday I saw a refurb Onkyo (current year model) with 3 component in/1 out, and S-video/composite upscaling to component, plus optical and coax digital ins/out, for less than $200. Being a receiver, it would also come with a remote.

Do the component inputs have badnwidth available for High Def? You could also then use the same unit to drive your bass shakers or something like that... Hrmmm

Do the component inputs have badnwidth available for High Def? You could also then use the same unit to drive your bass shakers or something like that... Hrmmm
From what I remember, this unit provided hi-def pass through.

Yeah, I never really thought about the possibilities until yesterday!

Has anyone considered purchasing a refurb receiver to use as a switcher? For example, yesterday I saw a refurb Onkyo (current year model) with 3 component in/1 out, and S-video/composite upscaling to component, plus optical and coax digital ins/out, for less than $200. Being a receiver, it would also come with a remote.

was this the one on outpost that was availble for bout 10 minutes and then everyone had their orders cancelled? And I believe it was component switching, not upscaling if that's the one youa re thinking of...

was this the one on outpost that was availble for bout 10 minutes and then everyone had their orders cancelled? And I believe it was component switching, not upscaling if that's the one youa re thinking of...
No. This is the model: Onkyo 552 (http://www.shoponkyo.com/detail.cfm?productid=TX-LR552&modelid=24&group_id=1&detail=1&ext_war=0) but I saw it for around $190 refurb.

Found the link: $189 (http://www.ecost.com/ecost/ecsplash/shop/detail~dpno~185911.asp)

Hope this helps.

Great thread, lots of excellent info!

Any comments on how these different switchers would work for video game console sources? I am basically one input short on my 43" plasma, so I will need to double up on one of the component inputs using a switch. I'm wondering if I could go the inexpensive route since I'm only looking at inputs from 2 video game consoles.

good thread to bad i didnt read it before i bought my $20 wlmart component switch :(

VideoStorm,

I am really interested in the CSW62. Do you guys ship to Canada? and what would the charges be?

Chris

I just picked up a used zector 4.2 component switch and wow, the picture from my projector is actually sharper running through the switch than straight to the projector. No doubt due to a long 30' cable run and the bufferred output on the zector.

VideoStorm,

I am really interested in the CSW62. Do you guys ship to Canada? and what would the charges be?

Chris

Chris,

We do ship to Canada. It is usually around $15 or so.

Are there any HD component switches with digital coax on it?

Are there any HD component switches with digital coax on it?

The Video Storm switcher discussed above has both component video and digital coax switching.

Are there any HD component switches with digital coax on it?

Also the Audio Authority 1154A.

Steve.

this will work?

i want to connect my dvd player, xbox to my projector and TV...

http://www.avtoolbox.com/avt5842.shtml

I bought one of these and it died on me. Approx. 2 yrs. old, it just freaking sits there and takes a crap. Unbelievable. What is worse, when I called Kramer Tools and asked if they would be willing to do anything at all to keep a customer, they said tough luck, out of warranty.
I have to believe the overall quality of their products is low and that this is not unusual for them to hear. If it was unusual for this switcher to just STOP WORKING one yr. out of warranty I would think they would be concerned and act accordingly.
Stay away from Kramer Tools products, if I had I wouldn't have thrown away approx $120.00

Are there any HD component switches with digital coax on it?

Radio Shack carries HD component switches with digital coax on it. It also has Dual display Output and can be controlled with a Learning Remote. Last I checked it was on sale for $50.00.

videostorm, any chance one the ic mfg's will produce a dedicated chip for component matrix switching? I see TI has released a new dvi/hdmi single chip matrix switch.

Actually, they have been around for a few years now. The problem is there isn't much demand (maybe <1 million units per year), so the prices are very high to recoup the semiconductor NRE. We don't use them because you can build a better, less expensive design with discreets.

...you can build a better, less expensive design with discreets.
True, but I was looking at this from a diy point of view; with some side interest in mass market a/v receiver mfg's upcoming features. The ability to use a single chip solution combined with a prototype test pcb from the mfg allows one to utilise even a QFP-100 IC and still use smt metal film support components at home. Having to do your own pcb layout & farm it out for a 5 pc order is a pain, both in layout design & turn around time. That and anything I do at work, is property of work; & my home layout software is out of production, so no new parts are added to the library. Free chip samples and development boards sweeten the pot even further. Obviously component expense for a one off design won't factor the same for a production item. Thanks for the response, I think I'll do a little shopping & see what's available.
Ward

Ward,

Maxim IC carries several of these parts. You can orders samples from their web site, although I don't know if they will send you these ones.

Probably not, especially considering we only use one Maxim ic, but you never know until you try! Your 4x2 matrix hit my desk late this afternoon. I didn't have time to play with it other than pop the hood & see what's inside. I'll post my feedback on toast.
Cheers,
Ward

No. This is the model: Onkyo 552 (http://www.shoponkyo.com/detail.cfm?productid=TX-LR552&modelid=24&group_id=1&detail=1&ext_war=0) but I saw it for around $190 refurb.

Found the link: $189 (http://www.ecost.com/ecost/ecsplash/shop/detail~dpno~185911.asp)

Hope this helps.

I wouldn't do this, I have an Onkyo a couple of years old, but it's a awesome receiver. It says it has the bandwidth for HD, but whenever I pass component through it I get some interference. I don't think any, except may $1000+ units are good for switching. There is just too much power and interference running though a receiver to pass a clean signal through. Anyway, I would highly recommend against this.

I own an Onkyo TX-SR602 and dont have any interference going through my receiver.

alot of factors go into whrre interference could come from so dont jump to conclusions its because of your receiver. cable TV grounding, outlet grounding, other appliances, lights...etc , can cause interference that you will see in your picture.

I have 0 problems unless the signal is put through my Onkyo. It's not coming from anywhere else.

then maybe you should check out the other things I mentioned. your reciever could be picking up interference through the outlet thats not grounded or other heavy appliances or fixtures nearby that are on outlets that are not grounded, even if they are grounded can cause noise. I had a problem when a washing machine and dryer caused this. a very large floresent light too. also cable tv if on component through a cable box or HDTV receiver.

Think about it, there large powerful amps inside the unit right next to the probably cheap internal not very well shielded electronic switch that barely qualifies for HD. Considering the whole amp cost little more than most switches, and it's not that hard to imagine why there would be interference or some signal degredation. I'm pretty experienced with this, and I know the difference between a good switch and what is likely inside a amp like the Onkyo. My hookups are fine, I don't have the problems you mentioned, the interference is not huge, but it's enough that I don't like passing my signal through the Onkyo. Perhaps with shorter cable runs it would not be a problem, perhaps some people wouldn't notice what I do. But for true HD and a long projector cable run, it's not a good thing from my experience. That's all I'm saying.

i dont see anything and have hooked up both direct and running belden/canare component cables 6ft from a device to the receiver than from the receiver to the projector at 15ft. total 21ft. but only 15ft from the receiver to the projector. I see no degration at all in the picture and have compared direct and over cables run through the receiver and I consider my eyes to be very picky and I do not wear glasses. I was only trying to help. I have alot of doubt someone would see degration unless it was over 30ft or more and they were usuing cheap cables.

Videostorm, do you or anyone else have a perspective or reviews on the A-Neutronics HD-5477 found at: http://a-neutronics.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=28&osCsid=b475ec94cf33abb86ee862897c87f9e7

I am considering that or the CSM42

Well, that switch sold by A-Neutronics is made by Shinybow. I haven't reviewed that model in particular, but I have tested one of their other models. The test report is on our site under "video info". The one I tested was nowhere near the specs they claim, so I don't put much faith in their stuff in general.

Just to head off a barrage of posts, I do work for a company making competing products. The reviews are factual but the opinions are just that :)

I only need a switch for 2 component video inputs (DVD, HDTV tuner) and 1 component output (projector). Since I only have the 2 devices, I use coaxial output for audio on one device and optical on the other to go to my receiver and use the audio switching in the receiver. I want a high quality video switch, but I don't want to pay for 4x2 or more inputs/outputs. What is best for this situation?

I only need a switch for 2 component video inputs (DVD, HDTV tuner) and 1 component output (projector). Since I only have the 2 devices, I use coaxial output for audio on one device and optical on the other to go to my receiver and use the audio switching in the receiver. I want a high quality video switch, but I don't want to pay for 4x2 or more inputs/outputs. What is best for this situation?

Key digital makes a nice 2x1 switch (KD-BB2X1) that can be switched via remote or auto-sense. I just picked one up used, but they're easy to find under/around $100.

-Mike

Does anyone have information about the Key Digital BB2x1 component switcher?
Type of switch? Quality? How does it compare to Video Storm or Inday switches?
Please comment.

Just passing along a very cool tip I learned. Autopatch makes several matrix switches. These are heavy duty professional grade stuff complete with RS232 controls. If you get the right ones, you can use them to switch both component video and digital audio in any matrix configuration you want, up to 8x8 depending on your boards. Great unit, and they go relatively cheap on Ebay.

CSW62


Hello VideoStorm... I got around to using the CSW62 today. Hooked up my PS2 and my Xbox to it. At first, both were fed a 480i signal to my BenQ 8720 HDTV front projector.

Then, I decided to switch the output from my Xbox from 480i to 480p. Upon doing so, I notice how much sharper the picture was. This sharpness also introduced what appears to be a bit of video noise.

You know like when you see those little faint rolling bars you get when looking at an RF signal from your VCR to your TV? It's not that noticeable during dark color scenes, but it's notceable when the screen goes white. Any idea why the 480p Xbox signal introduced these rolling bars when switching from 480i to 480p? I can't seem to get rid of them. Do you think it's because I had the PS2 connected to the other set of component inputs on the CSW62, and it was turned on at the same time as my Xbox? Any idea how to get rid of this? *shrug*.

Faint rolling bars (horizontal on the screen) are almost always due to a ground loop. Since many TVs use different circuits inside to handle the 480p signal vrs the 480i signal, it is possible that you can only see it in one mode.

Here is a link explaining ground loops:
http://www.video-storm.com/toast_vs/toast.asp?sub=show&action=posts&fid=2&tid=97

The link above also goes to our support forum, and you can also email support@video-storm.com for direct help.

I bought a CSM42 a few weeks ago and have been using it flawlessly...one of my two ouputs sends a signal via RG6 Quad Shield 85 feet way...it rocks!

Looks like I'm kind of late to this party, and the thread seems to have died, but I Googled my way here and got lots of useful information, so I'll bump in hopes of a reply.

Here's my situation:

I'm getting ready to jump on the HD train. I have a TV picked out, but it has only two component video inputs. I need a minimum of three -- XBOX360, DVD, HDTV box -- but even more would be great. That's it, very simple. I'm not trying to have two plasma displays in different rooms, or anything like that. Every piece of equipment will be in my living room, within 6 feet of each other, all going to the one display.

I saw lots of people swearing by this Pelican product, which as near as I can tell, is no longer being made, so that's not an issue. Then there were a lot of people who asked about the JVC JX-S111, which got some positive and negative comments. Then there were people who said that you have to spend $150 to get your money's worth, and so on.

All it did is confuse me. For my limited and simple setup, do I really need to buy one of VideoStorm's pricey professional models, or some other $150 piece, or can I get by with something like the JVC, or the AV Toolbox AVT-5831?

Thanks.

Looks like I'm kind of late to this party, and the thread seems to have died, but I Googled my way here and got lots of useful information, so I'll bump in hopes of a reply.

Here's my situation:

I'm getting ready to jump on the HD train. I have a TV picked out, but it has only two component video inputs. I need a minimum of three -- XBOX360, DVD, HDTV box -- but even more would be great. That's it, very simple. I'm not trying to have two plasma displays in different rooms, or anything like that. Every piece of equipment will be in my living room, within 6 feet of each other, all going to the one display.

I saw lots of people swearing by this Pelican product, which as near as I can tell, is no longer being made, so that's not an issue. Then there were a lot of people who asked about the JVC JX-S111, which got some positive and negative comments. Then there were people who said that you have to spend $150 to get your money's worth, and so on.

All it did is confuse me. For my limited and simple setup, do I really need to buy one of VideoStorm's pricey professional models, or some other $150 piece, or can I get by with something like the JVC, or the AV Toolbox AVT-5831?

Thanks.

I haven't tried it, but I was looking for a component switch for a friend and I've read that the Inday Switch (http://www.inday.com/rgb4x/rgb4x.htm) is one of the best. Hope this helps

Buy Com Sells the impact 3x1 component switcher for a good price. It passes 720 & 1080 video and it also works with toslink audio.

Is there an adequate HD-capable 2-to-1 component video switch that is not powered? I would hate to add to the global warming problem!

do I really need to buy one of VideoStorm's pricey professional models, or some other $150 piece, or can I get by with something like the JVC, or the AV Toolbox AVT-5831?


I spent for AV Tools matrix component switcher and although it worked the quality hit was noticeable. Then, it died after two years. Stable power for my HT components and everything else runs without a problem. I contacted AV and they blew me off. Do not buy their product.

Their support s*#$ks !!

Looks like I'm kind of late to this party, and the thread seems to have died, but I Googled my way here and got lots of useful information, so I'll bump in hopes of a reply.

Here's my situation:

I'm getting ready to jump on the HD train. I have a TV picked out, but it has only two component video inputs. I need a minimum of three -- XBOX360, DVD, HDTV box -- but even more would be great. That's it, very simple. I'm not trying to have two plasma displays in different rooms, or anything like that. Every piece of equipment will be in my living room, within 6 feet of each other, all going to the one display.

I saw lots of people swearing by this Pelican product, which as near as I can tell, is no longer being made, so that's not an issue. Then there were a lot of people who asked about the JVC JX-S111, which got some positive and negative comments. Then there were people who said that you have to spend $150 to get your money's worth, and so on.

All it did is confuse me. For my limited and simple setup, do I really need to buy one of VideoStorm's pricey professional models, or some other $150 piece, or can I get by with something like the JVC, or the AV Toolbox AVT-5831?

Thanks. As SteveEast mentioned on the last page... try the Audio Authority 1154A. I have one and had NO problems at all. IMHO you get what you pay for.

Well, I'm not screwing around this time. I am going to buy the Videostorm CSW62.

As SteveEast mentioned on the last page... try the Audio Authority 1154A. I have one and had NO problems at all. IMHO you get what you pay for.
Another vote for the AA1154A. I was looking at those $100 ones but was a bit weary of them. I liked that they had remotes, but didn't like they didn't have digital coax connections. That is mostly what sold me on the AA as well as the auto swtiching. Knock on wood, so far it's been great. There's no signal degration at all (which I thought there would be) and it looks great with my HD-DVR box and my new Xbox 360. It's definitely worth the extra money and I agree, you get what you pay for.

Since I've run out of Component inputs on my receiver I am thinking about running my Xbox and Xbox360 into 1 component input on my receiver using this Y adapter (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10422&cs_id=1042205&p_id=2848&seq=1&format=2&style=).


The leads from the XBOX and XBOX360 are around 6’ in length leading into this Y adapter.

Will my signal be degraded?

mynym - you realize that's designed for one component source feeding two tv's.

mynym - you realize that's designed for one component source feeding two tv's.
Component cable is analog and not directional. It can go either way. Obviously you can't have both sources on at the same time though.

Another vote for the AA1154A. I was looking at those $100 ones but was a bit weary of them. I liked that they had remotes, but didn't like they didn't have digital coax connections. That is mostly what sold me on the AA as well as the auto swtiching. Knock on wood, so far it's been great. There's no signal degration at all (which I thought there would be) and it looks great with my HD-DVR box and my new Xbox 360. It's definitely worth the extra money and I agree, you get what you pay for.
Luckily for you, the 1154B is coming soon, and will include an IR remote :) .

You could also go for our ultra fancy 1156 Autoselector if you wanted, but it's almost $1300...but don't scream, it's made to interface with a couple other products as well to create a Matrix routing system. That's why all the extra cost.

Trent

There was a link posted by video storm a couple pages back that explained video ground loops. I think I may have a ground loop problem because on my DVD input, I see faint horizontal lines scrolling up the screen. I have also seen diagonal lines at some point.

Now my question is this:

If all my devices are connected to one power bar/ surge protector, are they all grounded to the same thing (by the surge protector)?

There was a link posted by video storm a couple pages back that explained video ground loops. I think I may have a ground loop problem because on my DVD input, I see faint horizontal lines scrolling up the screen. I have also seen diagonal lines at some point.

Now my question is this:

If all my devices are connected to one power bar/ surge protector, are they all grounded to the same thing (by the surge protector)?

Even if all of your devices are connected to the same surge suppresor, your cable tv signal is grounded somewhere outside your house.

You may want to read this:

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/setup/avhardware/groundloopcableTV.php

Even if all of your devices are connected to the same surge suppresor, your cable tv signal is grounded somewhere outside your house.

You may want to read this:

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/setup/avhardware/groundloopcableTV.php

Thanks for the link.

But my Cable TV coax plug has been removed from the wall to troubleshoot. These scrolling lines are there with my DVD player, but strangely not with my Xbox360, which are both plugged into the same receiver and both plugged into the same surge protector.

What does this sound like?

Also, about the cable tv causing ground problems, can I run the coax cable through my surge protector (which has a slot for coax) and from the surge to my cable box? Would that properly ground the cable input?

Thanks!

Sam

Thanks for the link.

But my Cable TV coax plug has been removed from the wall to troubleshoot. These scrolling lines are there with my DVD player, but strangely not with my Xbox360, which are both plugged into the same receiver and both plugged into the same surge protector.

What does this sound like?

Also, about the cable tv causing ground problems, can I run the coax cable through my surge protector (which has a slot for coax) and from the surge to my cable box? Would that properly ground the cable input?

Thanks!

Sam

Sam,
I actually had a "similar" problem with the DVD player. I'm not sure what type of cable you're using but when I used a component cable, the problem persist. When I changed to an HDMI cable, the problem went away. Maybe your Xbox is producing a higher gain than the DVD player -- I don't know.

I still have the humming sound comming out of the speakers. That's why I purchased the gound isolator. I haven't received it yet but there's a thread in this forum under the audio video setup, that talks about it.

I tried to plug the coax cable through the surge protector and it didn't solve the problem. It actually caused another problem - the HD channels no longer work! From what I read, the ground isolator mentioned in the article is high-bandwidth that allows the HD channels through.

Good luck!

jluspo,

Thank you for the input!

Some troubleshooting revealed one of the sources of noise -- my subwoofer!

With the subwoofer plugged in to the rca jack on the Pioneer 1015 receiver, there were horizontal bands moving up the image, with it unplugged, the bands disappeared immediately.

I thought it could've been ground loop but my sub's power cord isn't even grounded. And my cable is a good one, a Monster subwoofer cable (directional) which is plugged in correctly.

It doesn't matter whether the sub's power cord is plugged into another surge protector or the same one as my receiver, same deal.

Ideas?

Component cable is analog and not directional. It can go either way. Obviously you can't have both sources on at the same time though.
Hi,
True - but I see two potential problems with this config:
1) A low cost passive splitter probably won't give you anywhere near a 75 ohm video signal termination.
2) You're introducing a 'T' into the line which will cause signal reflections that may be noticable.
Lemme know how it works for you.
-Ward

jluspo,

Thank you for the input!

Some troubleshooting revealed one of the sources of noise -- my subwoofer!

With the subwoofer plugged in to the rca jack on the Pioneer 1015 receiver, there were horizontal bands moving up the image, with it unplugged, the bands disappeared immediately.

I thought it could've been ground loop but my sub's power cord isn't even grounded. And my cable is a good one, a Monster subwoofer cable (directional) which is plugged in correctly.

It doesn't matter whether the sub's power cord is plugged into another surge protector or the same one as my receiver, same deal.

Ideas?

Sam,

This article talks about ground loop and sub-woofers:http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/180767.html

I may also have a problem with my subwoofer since my sub is also not grounded. I'll have to check it out next time I watch a movie.

Hi,
True - but I see two potential problems with this config:
1) A low cost passive splitter probably won't give you anywhere near a 75 ohm video signal termination.
2) You're introducing a 'T' into the line which will cause signal reflections that may be noticable.
Lemme know how it works for you.
-Ward


I ordered it last night. I will be sure to report back the findings.

Looks like this thread has been inactive for awhile.. but I'll throw something out there that i've heard on switching and component runs..

My situation is that I want to send an xbox 360 signal to two different tvs.. one a projector that I'm about to get (mits HD1000U) (VGA most likely, as most seem to think it looks better), while the other is an LCD PC Monitor...

So I was going to get an active VGA switch (or if I went with components, i guess based on this thread I'd get an active component switch)...

Though recently I was thinking of trying an active Splitter.. sending the signals simultaneously, not sure if this will degrade the picture though (either component or vga)..

I've come across some other blogs out there that state for runs even as "short" as 35 feet, with component or vga.. one should use the distribution amp or run coax with BNC connectors on the other end.. then converting to VGA if desired... While others have stated they see no ghosting or distortion in the image at 35 or 40 feet (my distance).. So this part confuses me still..

Some data they had:

for even a 480p signal: the wavelength of a 25
MHz signal is about 12 meters, so thats about 40 feet.. basically implying to check the frequency and wavelengths to determine what is too long.. I would have to guess that for a 720p signal, this would imply needing some sort of amplification etc? (I dont really know all the stats on wavelengths etc.. so any help would be great :)

Anyone have any thoughts on any of this..Here is a snapshot:

Active switch better than passive..
Switch better idea than a splitter..
Other solutions to send two signals (switched or split) to two tvs with 360...
Wavelength and cable run issues for 40 feet on any of these cable formats?
VGA vs component (rehashed yet again)..

As long as you only need to send the Xbox output to the two displays, you should use an active splitter. If you have more than one source, use a dual output active switch.

The active device should have a bandwidth >70 Mhz.

Just make sure your component cables are matched in length fairly well (red is not longer than blue etc). If they are off by more than a few feet it can be a problem.

The choice of VGA vs component really depends on the formats you want to display and how well the displays handle them.

I use the VideoStorm CSM42 for this same purpose, have downstream one 6' component cable as an input to the AVR (which then feeds a projector via HDMI, a 32" LCD via component, and another 23" combo LCD TV and monitor via another component output) and the other output of the videostorm feeds a DLP 43" TV that is 65' away with custom made RG59 copper - copper component. Everything works fine up to 720p and/or 1080i. This is a rock solid box and it has 4x2 matrix.

Very good information in this thread...thanks a lot.

I'm about to purchase a 4x2 component switch, for SD material only (PS2, Wii, DVD Player)...HD goes through my Gefen 4x2 HDMI switch. Would anything speak against this 4x2 one from Atlona? The output cable to my TV is short, but the second output to my projector is around 38ft.

It's on the Atlona Homepage under the following product:

product.php?productid=16291&cat=298&page=1

It can be had for $60 less than the Videostorm CSW62, which is a big factor for me even though I'd love to support Videostorm. Does anybody know anything about the brand Atlona? I'm from Switzerland, and I've never heard of them.

Thanks a lot,
Ced

You guys tickle me with all your technical mumbo-jumbo (and I'm an engineer, BTW). Perception and subjective visual/audio performance are everything. At the end of the day, all that matters is "Does it work to my satisfaction?".

I've been into HDTV and home theater since before the majority of members here today even knew what the terms meant. I have as critical an eye for HDTV as anybody you know. I know HDTV.

I have several varying degrees of home theater in various rooms of my home. I have long-since needed a GOOD (read: how it LOOKS to ME) component/RGB switching device for 3 of my rooms/setups.

Now I have many thousands of dollars invested in my rooms. I probably have more invested in HDTV in my home than people spend on their first automobile. The argument "Well if you spent $5000 on an HDTV, why won't you spend $200 on a good switch?" don't cut it with me. Dollars <> quailty. That's one of the biggest problems with some of the the nutz and so-called "authorities" that hang out here at AVS (I can say that because I've been here since the BEGINNING and I'm one of them.). There seems to be a concensus here on this site that if you didn't spend at least XX dollars on something, it ain't worth crap. Hogwash. Monster brand cables? I ain't even gonna go there! LMFAO at the people that throw perfectly good money away on them. Anyway...

I've been 3 seconds from pulling the trigger on 3 AA 1154a's since they came out. I just couldn't see $600 for switching that I have to manually control so I never bought them. I don't buy into the AI switching thing. All my components stay on all the time and I happen to think I'm smarter than any dumb switch about what I want to watch.

I read all the crappy reviews around Christmas about the new component switch at Rat Shack for $29. Now I hate Rat Shack as much as the next guy but I suck it up and buy things there occasionally because it's convenient (mall) and it's quick. I decided to pick up one of these switches when I was literally just passing by the store while Christmas shopping. I had full intentions of returning it after I proved to myself it was indeed, crap.

I went home and bought a bunch of component cables for $4 each from Monoprice off eBay. When everything came in, I hooked it all up on my Pioneer 43" plasma in my bedroom and it looked like crap on two of the inputs. These components had all looked FINE before the switch. I was just before writing it off and just returning it when I decided to play with it for a few more minutes just to fully convince myself that it was a POS like "they" said. Turned out I had to make some adjustments to MY equipment's parameters. Once I did that, much to my amazement, it worked and looked perfectly.

I went back to Radio Shack, not to return the switch but to buy 2 more. I did. Ordered the cables necessary from Monoprice (again, the $5 ones not the $100 ones). When everything came in, I proceeded to hook one switch to my HD1000U (then a 4800, now an HD1000U) in my theater room and to my Mits 62" DLP in the living room. Not to my surprise (at this point), they too, worked perfectly. <$200 for the whole deal.

I dare you to try the Rat Shack switch if 4 inputs suits your needs. you'll be glad you did.

Seems to me that this thread has become a running advertisement for a vendor with a vested interest. Is he even forum sponsor??? He's getting some great advertisement under the guise of "just trying to help out.". :mad:

The Rat Shack switches work fine for me and they likely will for you too. Beware of smoke and mirrors from people just determined to impress you with their knowledge (LOL) and expertise. Look how long they've been here and look at what their qualifications are and then weigh their opinions accordingly.

Oh yea... Dollars don't necessarily equate to quality. Never forget that. ;)

Very good information in this thread...thanks a lot.

I'm about to purchase a 4x2 component switch, for SD material only (PS2, Wii, DVD Player)...HD goes through my Gefen 4x2 HDMI switch. Would anything speak against this 4x2 one from Atlona? The output cable to my TV is short, but the second output to my projector is around 38ft.

It's on the Atlona Homepage under the following product:

product.php?productid=16291&cat=298&page=1

It can be had for $60 less than the Videostorm CSW62, which is a big factor for me even though I'd love to support Videostorm. Does anybody know anything about the brand Atlona? I'm from Switzerland, and I've never heard of them.

Thanks a lot,
Ced

Ced..do these switches do matrix 4x2 with IR control? Such that, you can have each of the two displays on the output side view either the same content as each other, or more uniquely, any of the content from the 4 inputs while the other display is viewing other conent from another source? And, switching the outputs from IR and either coax digital or opitical? That is what differentiated the VideoStorm when I bought it. There we many that did 4x2 non-matrix....i.e. both displays had to view the same stuff at the same time.....that is a much simpler task than matrix operation...which in my book is worth some extra dollars even if you don't need it today for future configuration flexibility....

And for that guy who rambled on about Rat Shack yada yada....I have plenty of Rat Shack stuff an it can work....but I guarantee no sub $50 switch is going to matrix. So, it all depends on your needs.

I was looking for a good quality component video switch. I need 4 inputs to one output and it needs to support HD with no signal loss. I don't want to spend more than $150, but I don't care if it's manual without a remote. Any suggestions?

From the guy that "rambled on" about Rat Shack...

This is the original post that began this thread, not the 300 tangents everybody seems to have gotten off on. :p

Bob wonders if anybody ever bothers to read the original questions in threads or if they just post opinions randomly because they think somebody might wanna read'em... (sigh)

I think I need a video converter ..... I thought I needed a switcher. I need something to accept HDMI & composite inputs & 1 HDMI output to my display (HD1000 projector). I currently have my audio cables running directly from my HDMI cable box to my receiver (an old Denon AVR-3200) & the HDMI to the projector (30') . If I want to hook up a 360 via component, I will need a converter right ??? I'm looking at the Gefen Home Theatre scaler. Any other suggestions ?? I didn't want to spend $400 + for a converter. Anybody have any experience with the Key Digital iSync Pro video processor ???

Ced..do these switches do matrix 4x2 with IR control? Such that, you can have each of the two displays on the output side view either the same content as each other, or more uniquely, any of the content from the 4 inputs while the other display is viewing other conent from another source? And, switching the outputs from IR and either coax digital or opitical? That is what differentiated the VideoStorm when I bought it. There we many that did 4x2 non-matrix....i.e. both displays had to view the same stuff at the same time.....that is a much simpler task than matrix operation...which in my book is worth some extra dollars even if you don't need it today for future configuration flexibility....

Dave, I don't need a matrix switch, I only need to switch between outputs. I was just wondering whether the Atlona switch is visibly worse for SD material with a cable length of 38ft to the projector. I was just generally wondering about the brand Atlona (since I've never heard of them) and this switch in particular.

Ced

Here's the direct link to the Atlona switch: http://www.atlona.com/product.php?productid=16291&cat=298&page=1

Ced

I read all the crappy reviews around Christmas about the new component switch at Rat Shack for $29. Now I hate Rat Shack as much as the next guy but I suck it up and buy things there occasionally because it's convenient (mall) and it's quick. I decided to pick up one of these switches when I was literally just passing by the store while Christmas shopping. I had full intentions of returning it after I proved to myself it was indeed, crap.

[snip]

The Rat Shack switches work fine for me and they likely will for you too. Beware of smoke and mirrors from people just determined to impress you with their knowledge (LOL) and expertise. Look how long they've been here and look at what their qualifications are and then weigh their opinions accordingly.

Oh yea... Dollars don't necessarily equate to quality. Never forget that. ;)

I tried a couple of these as well and was pleasantly surprised. I use one to connect two Sony HD DVRs as well as an HDTV tuner to the component inputs of my HD1000u projector.

What I found was compared to direct input, the picture at 720p or 1080i is just a touch softer on a 108" diagonal picture. It wouldn't surprise me if someone could not see a difference on a 40" plasma. That said, all I had to do was bump up the sharpness setting on the projector and then the direct vs switch was identical. If you peek into the case, you'll find there are a lot of parts inside one of these switches. The softness at 720p and 1080i indicates these switches will be inadequate at 1080p, but I don't care about that.

I like the dual component outputs. I like that it also switches coax SPDIF. This switch makes sharing my DVRs with the master bedroom a snap. Also, its remote learning works easily and flawlessly. For $29, it has quite a good bang for the buck factor.

Later, I'll probably move on to HDMI switching when HDMI switches and distribution amps get to be reasonably priced. But even when I do that, I'll still need to switch SPDIF. I just can see myself getting too upset at dropping 30 bucks on one of these (I actually bought two, just in case).

I think they are also on clearance. The shelf tag at Rat Shack said these were originally $70.

-Mike

I originally purchased the Psyclone PSC01, and at first it seemed great. However, when I was watching my Sony HDR-HC3 camcorder, when there was a bright picture it made a horizontal line... and in extreme cases, even blanked out the picture entirely.

I then realized that I actually did have enough digital inputs in my receiver, so I didn't HAVE to have the switch do audio too. So I ordered the Video Storm CSW62. I didn't need two outputs, but it was just as cheap as the Audio Authority, plus it is an amplifier.

I just hooked it up today, and it's perfect. Even though I wasn't complaining about the picture on other component inputs, it has cleaned them up as well. Most noticeably on the Wii. So I do recommend this switch if you don't HAVE to mix audio and video.

Videostorm,

I have a RPTV and a Sharp 12000 (720 Darkchip3). I use only one display at a time. When I use a 4x2 (parallel non-matrix) switch is there any problems to be expected when one of the display devices is turned off? Also, which one of your models would be a non-matrix 4x2 or 6x2?

Thanks,
David

David,

If you use one of our switches you should have no problems driving both displays regardless of if they are on or off. Our CSW62 is a dual non-matrixed switch (6x2, video only, and our CSM42 is a dual matrixed output switch (4x2, video+audio).