John: 2910 is a great player, from what I have heard. Did Good Guys tell you when they shall be receiving new stock for Sony player? I find that hard to believe their statement coz even Sony's website says that the player is not ready to be shipped. If you do not mind the extra $$ for Denon player, its certainly a very good player from all the threads I have read so far.

Sony DVP-NS975V

Does it make any sense to purchase upconverting DVD player for ED-TV sets which display at 480p native?

Sony DVP-NS975V Up-Scaling DVD/CD/SACD Player

Ordered from Amazon on 8/10. Today was my shipping date. Website says "Not Yet Shipped" so far.

Ordered the Samsung 841. Going to try it out.

Originally posted by yseguy22
Sony DVP-NS975V

Does it make any sense to purchase upconverting DVD player for ED-TV sets which display at 480p native? Yes, if your EDTV has a DVI or HDMI input.

And maybe "NO" if:
1) Your EDTV converts DVI/HDMI to analog and then back to digital again before displaying
2) Your upconverting player doesn't offer 480p on the DVI/HDMI output

An upconverting DVD player is actually pointless for EDTVs because after the DVD player upconverts to 720p, the TV will then downconvert back to 480p.

Im in the market for a DVI or HDMI player. Should i buy one of the good DVI ones not, or wait for one of the newer HDMI's coming out? I have a Samsung DLP tv. Price range between $200-$400

capt

Originally posted by mallu2u
John: 2910 is a great player, from what I have heard. Did Good Guys tell you when they shall be receiving new stock for Sony player? I find that hard to believe their statement coz even Sony's website says that the player is not ready to be shipped. If you do not mind the extra $$ for Denon player, its certainly a very good player from all the threads I have read so far.

Well, after much debate with the wife, I went ahead and splurged for the 2910(Actually, she bought it for me as a birthday gift) Man, I am impressed! In terms of picture, it's definitely clearer.... but sound wise, boy it just blew away my old DVD player. I put in the Monsters Inc DVD last night and wow! It was great.

The Good Guys salesperson(Mark Turner) sounds like he knows his stuff. He wasn't really sure when the Sony will come out but he said he's pretty sure they will get it around Nov. 8.

If you really really want a nice DVD player, I'd definitely recommend the 2910. Heck, with the 0%financing for 18 months, you can't go wrong.(Plus the fact that my wife got it for me for my birthday.

Hey guys what Online stores sell the Denon 2190??

capt

Originally posted by yseguy22
An upconverting DVD player is actually pointless for EDTVs because after the DVD player upconverts to 720p, the TV will then downconvert back to 480p. You can output 480p DVI.

Take note, the Sony 975 is HDMI only, no DVI.

I also see the Sony 975 will offer both 480p and 480i on HDMI. Nice feature for those who might prefer an external scaler like the DVDO units.

Does anyone know if the 975 is a Faraoudja unit and which chip it might be?

Originally posted by yseguy22
An upconverting DVD player is actually pointless for EDTVs because after the DVD player upconverts to 720p, the TV will then down convert back to 480p. You answered your own question?

Also consider whether your EDTV unit will support HDCP. Many early TVs with DVI are not HDCP compliant; all the latest/newest DVD players with up-conversion and DVI or HDMI outputs will have HDCP.

Originally posted by CaptDS9E
Im in the market for a DVI or HDMI player. Should i buy one of the good DVI ones not, or wait for one of the newer HDMI's coming out? I have a Samsung DLP tv. Price range between $200-$400 Did you check the first page of this thread?

There are a few new ones coming this quarter. The Sony 975 and Panny S97 should both be under $400. There are a bunch available now. Panny will be another Faraoudja unit, the Sony is still a mystery.

Originally posted by HTBruceM
Also consider whether your EDTV unit will support HDCP. Many early TVs with DVI are not HDCP compliant; all the latest/newest DVD players with up-conversion and DVI or HDMI outputs will have HDCP. The Bravo D2 doesn't have HDCP on DVI out.

yes i read the first page of the thread. I know new ones are coming out. I just wanted your opinions on wether i should wait for the new ones or not.

capt

I'm looking at buying an upconverting DVD player to see if it makes a difference on my systems. I have two plasmas (Sony 42", 50"), both with HK receivers (AVR7300, AVR630). Currently a Sony and a HK (DVD22) player respectively, both using component out.

I'm interested in at least trying the 2910 with my livingroom system (50", AVR7300) but am worried about what I've read in other threads about it being incapable of properly playing DVD-R/+R/etc as I have some of them that I would like to be able to play back. Is this an issue, or could it be that those who report this as a problem use specific discs/burnspeed etc which does not work?

Daniel

Thanks Aka

Originally posted by sudden
I'm looking at buying an upconverting DVD player to see if it makes a difference on my systems. I have two plasmas (Sony 42", 50"), both with HK receivers (AVR7300, AVR630). Currently a Sony and a HK (DVD22) player respectively, both using component out.

I'm interested in at least trying the 2910 with my livingroom system (50", AVR7300) but am worried about what I've read in other threads about it being incapable of properly playing DVD-R/+R/etc as I have some of them that I would like to be able to play back. Is this an issue, or could it be that those who report this as a problem use specific discs/burnspeed etc which does not work?

Daniel

I played +R/RW disks with 1910 and they played perfectly. I would think 2910 would play them fine as well

other than a pain to setup, i love the player i just purchased. it even made a difference on the new starwars dvds. can't wait to unload my dvd collection!

I'm recently got a Zenith E44W46LCD and now I am in the market for an upconverting dvd setup. I am a computer geek so doing a HTPC is totally within my ability, however I am a DVDA and SACD collector, so that rules out a strick HTPC option being there is no such thing as a PC sacd player. Right now I am either looking at setting up a HTPC and getting a DVDA / SACD capable player / backup dvd player, OR buying a denon 2910 and not doing a HTPC. I know the denon is a quality player, but I'd miss out on all the HTPC fun of surfing the net, having a media center etc... If I were to go the htpc and dvda/sacd/backup dvd player, I would obviously want to spend as little as possible on the dvd player. The Samsung HD841 is priced reasonably, but the reviews on this site have been fairly negative. Is this samsung so bad that I wouldn't want to use it as a backup? Is there another low-priced upconverting dvd/dvda/sacd player that I am overlooking?

Sony DVP-NS975V Up-Scaling DVD/CD/SACD Player

The shipping date for the order I placed on August 10 with Amazon.com for this Sony just changed from 10/15 to 12/17! This is not good news!

Originally posted by csimington
The shipping date for the order I placed on August 10 with Amazon.com for this Sony just changed from 10/15 to 12/17! This is not good news!

Are you KIDDING?! Wow, what the heck's that about?

This does sound strange since there are members who bought at SonyStyle.com saying that there player has been shipped out. Conflicting!

I was wondering if the new ship date had anything to do with the pricing that Amazon gave me back in August. It was 10% off with free shipping and no tax. I tried to order another Sony from Amazon today and it gave me a Dec 20 ship date. Maybe Sony is not allocating to the Amazon supplier. Sony Style is charging full price, tax and shipping. Maybe it's worth the extra $70 to buy from Sony Style. The Sony site estimates availability on Nov 8.

Someone already got this player now. He has posted some early review about the player in the Sony Player's thread.

Looking for a DVI/HDMI DVD player for my Hitachi RP LCD. Obviously, my current Pioneer Elite DV-38A via components doesn't seem to be doing so well on this screen. (Overall, just bad quality, no detail, not sharp. Not sure why, though.)

In looking at the upscaling DVD players that output DVI/HDMI (my screen has HDMI inputs), the Samsung 841 does 720p and 768p. I believe the native resolution of my Hitachi is 768p.

So, do I NEED a player that does 768p or will a player that does 720p look just as good on my screen as one that does 768p?

(I really want a Denon 2910/3910 but it only upscales to 720p or 1080i, both of which are not native to my screen).

Also, would 1080i look better on my screen or 768p?

Thanks!

dmylrea-
What Hitachi model # do you have?

Originally posted by Jim Noyd
dmylrea-
What Hitachi model # do you have?

50VS810.

That is a 3-chip LCD TV with a native 1280 x 720 or 720p resolution. Give it a progressive 720p signal via HDMI and it will perform at its best.

Last night, I put in a couple of Superbit DVDs on my 1910. I cannot tell if the 1910 is a bad player or not, in terms of macroblocking, honestly! Here's why:

Last night I also was watching Basic Instinct, on TV (satellite), and it was SD feed. I have an HD2+ DLP 52 inch, and the scene where Sharon Stone is in bed talking with Mike Douglas, there is a closeup on her face, and she moves around a bit when she was talking, and it was a side profile of her face. You could VERY easily see what I now understand as macroblocking: There literally where squares dancing around as the camera moved slightly (and so did the actor), with her face obviously being tan/white/pinkish/redish, so the square danced around near each other, where of those colors.

I never once saw this on my 1910. What I *do* see in the 1910 however, is this "hazy" effect on all the discs, where things in both the background AND the foreground aren't razor-sharp. Thing is, when I pause and look closely at an actor's face or an object, for example, it DOES look razor-sharp and very detailed and clear.

But I certainly didn't see MB going on like I did watching Basic Instinct on SD channel. I also saw that MB phenomenom while playing XBOX at an intro sequence (closeup panning camera on a red sports car).

So in closing, I would like to say that no matter how much info I get from this forum, I just cannot tell if the 1910 is bad or not, unless I get another player and compare the PQ. Sux that I got it from an online retailer, and it's too much a PITA to send it back for a refund. I guess I'll just deal with it and sell it privately for a small loss, should a new DVD player prove superior. I guess I'll try the 2910.

For Panny S97 questions/comments: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=463025

For Sony 975V: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4573937#post4573937

Don't forget the modded xbox. I use an xbox with a mod chip installed upconverting to 720p via component(great for you guys with no open dvi)
The picture is on par with my HTPC upconverting via DVI.

I have a modded xbox and I think the dvd playback is crap compared to a standard dvd player that doesn't upconvert.

Originally posted by AHROBERTS
Don't forget the modded xbox. I use an xbox with a mod chip installed upconverting to 720p via component(great for you guys with no open dvi)
The picture is on par with my HTPC upconverting via DVI.

No way an Xbox is going to beat a pixel mapped DVI HTPC. I have a modded xbox and it looks like crap, even compared to my old sony.

Updated for NeuNeo HVD10 DVD Player. Thanks to JGDragov for his master thread/review on the player.

Paul's threads on Panny and Sony have now been added to the main (first) post

Hi, I've been lurking here for a bit trying to gather info about all these new DVD players and whatnot and I have a question.

I recently bought a Samsung TXP3071 widescreen HDTV when I went to get a replacement for this 13" Sharp that I've been using for the past decade. I didn't do any research beforehand, but compared it to the Sony they had in there too and thought the Samsung looked better plus had the ATSC tuner, so I got it; then I found this board and realized everyone was crapping on it, and I felt like I made a bad mistake. But anyway..

I have an old Sony DVP-S570D player that I hooked up to it and was all ready to be blown away by the picture, but I was really dissapointed when I started to watch it (I was testing it with Kill Bill 1&2). It just didn't look as good as I thought it would have, and the picture even seemed a little blurry and perhaps there were some color issues, too. But then I thought maybe it's because I was using just an S-video connection, that the player was old, it's not progressive scan, or maybe it was just the DVD, although I couldn't imagine that would be the case.

I haven't gotten the chance to test the TV with any progessive players cause I don't know anyone that I could borrow one from, so I was just waiting til Sony released the new DVP-S975 since it was going to have the new up-conversion and HDMI connection. I really like my current player's menus and look and all that, so I was hoping this would be the best option for me.

The thread on here about it makes it sound pretty decent too, but I just read that CNET report on it where they say this:
"we recommend avoiding upscaling players if you have a CRT-based HDTV, unless the set demonstrates a marked improvement in video quality over the digital jack"
And that when the player was sending out a 1080i signal, that they were seeing flickering, where as sending a 480p resulted in a stable picture.

So I'm wondering what the deal is with that and if anyone knows whether or not this is an issue with my Samsung HDTV and if the whole upconversion thing wont even make a difference since it's a CRT and not a "fixed-pixel" set.

Sorry for the long post and thanks.

xtsquintx: I would certainly encourage you to get home of the upconverting players at home and seeing how it looks. You should get either the Panasonic S97, Sony 975 or Denon 1910, in order of preference. Upconvert to native resolution of the TV and see the difference. I would recommend buying from a local B&M store so that you have to option to return it, if it does not seem better. Depending upon your budget, try one of the above. Good luck and welcome to AVS!

Bought an 841 samsung upconversion DVD player... but only have a component IN TV. Well as you can imagine, I am very disappointed that the upconversion will not work with my TV. :-(

I bought a converter but it will not work. Any other ideas?

Thanks,
Tony

Tony: Upconversion does not work via component for most of US players. Only using DVI/HDMI. If you want upconversion over component, look into Zenith 318 or Momitsu player.

Why tho? Is it because of the digital to analog conversion process to use the comp outs?

Tony

xtsquintx,

I, like you, have been pretty much of a lurker as well. But I do have some advice to add to the mallu2u DVD player recommendations.
One importtant factor is your choice of using S-Video. S-Video will not provide the 'blown away' results you are looking for. You must use at least component inputs or preferably DVi or HDMI. Use the best connection your TV will accept.

I also would like an answer to xtsquintx's question on upconverting players and CRTs. Would they be a waste of money? I'm considering buying a CRT HDTV soon with HDMI input, and possibly the Panasonic S97. But would I get the same results with a less expensive progressive-scan player using component outputs?

I'd try it myself, but that's why I come here, to gain the benefit of your collective experience before I take the plunge ;)

Originally posted by tkonzal
Why tho? Is it because of the digital to analog conversion process to use the comp outs?

Tony

Hollywood opposes upconversion over component (as there is no HDCP). Therefore US Manufacturers would not support it. Zenith was the only exception and they have stopped it as well in newer players. Therefore recommended earlier Zenith 318s and Momitsu for component.

Folks,

I saw a bunch of these Toshiba SD5970 dvd players at Brandsmart in Florida. I didn't know if there was a reason they weren't talked about on this thread.

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/dvd/product.asp?model=SD-5970

Cheers,
Guy

Does it make sense to have an upconverting DVD player if you have a TV like the Mitsubishi DLP which does upconverting? Looking for a new player that makes sense....

Originally posted by arcothunder
Does it make sense to have an upconverting DVD player if you have a TV like the Mitsubishi DLP which does upconverting? Looking for a new player that makes sense....

It makes sense if you have a digital input on your TV with HDCP, especially if you TV is a digital display. By outputting upconverted digital from the DVD player, you get a upscaled image and avoid an D/A and an A/D conversion at the TV.

I have a very basic question. I just got a HDTV, a 62" Toshiba DLP that has a digital (HDMI) input. I do not yet have a real sound system - I've got an old stereo amp with 2 cheap speakers.

I'm currently using a PS2 as my DVD player. I'm pretty sure this is not a progressive player. I'm wondering what kind of PQ improvement I can expect from a good <$300 Upconversion DVD player w/HDMI. Will it be a knock-your-socks-off difference? Or is the difference more subtle?

thanks,
dsr

Originally posted by dsr15
I have a very basic question. I just got a HDTV, a 62" Toshiba DLP that has a digital (HDMI) input. I do not yet have a real sound system - I've got an old stereo amp with 2 cheap speakers.

I'm currently using a PS2 as my DVD player. I'm pretty sure this is not a progressive player. I'm wondering what kind of PQ improvement I can expect from a good <$300 Upconversion DVD player w/HDMI. Will it be a knock-your-socks-off difference? Or is the difference more subtle?

Other nice thing is that you can run one cable (included with the Panasonic) for both digital video and 2 channel digital audio (if you are not using an external sound system) to your TV.

thanks,
dsr

Going from PS2 to an upconverting player will likely make a knock-your-socks-off difference. PS2 is a pretty awful player. I just got the Panasonic s97 upconverting player, which I connect via HDMI to my Samsung HLP5063 and the improvement over my Sony 725 progressive DVD player is fairly dramatic. I wasn't even using progressive scan on the previous player b/c the TV had a better deinterlacer. Now I feed the Samsung a 720p signal and there are no conversions at all.

Thanks Eric. - Did you get your Panasonic s97 from a B&M store? That would be my preference, so I could easily return it if necessary.

Originally posted by dsr15
Thanks Eric. - Did you get your Panasonic s97 from a B&M store? That would be my preference, so I could easily return it if necessary.

No - got mine from OneCall. Not sure what B&Ms if any have them yet.

Originally posted by HMenke
It makes sense if you have a digital input on your TV with HDCP, especially if you TV is a digital display. By outputting upconverted digital from the DVD player, you get a upscaled image and avoid an D/A and an A/D conversion at the TV. Except in the case of the Mitsubishi DLP, it always converts the HDMI input to analog internally before it is converted back to digital 720p. Seems crazy, but the thinking is they did this in order to leverage their existing designs/modules/circuits. So you have to ask yourself which of these two is better:

DVD_D/A-------(480pComponent)--------------MitsA/D-------Display (720p)

DVD_UpConvert----(HDMI)-------MitsD/A------MitsA/D-------Display (720p)

Hey all, just a quick question

I will using a front projector with either HDMI or DVI input so should I get a DVD player with a corresponding output/input or does it not matter?

Main question....What seems to be the best DVD player for under $300 with the least flaws or problems?

Also...I will be running the cable 30ft...will this be a problem?

Thanks a bunch!

dsr15 wrote:

Thanks Eric. - Did you get your Panasonic s97 from a B&M store? That would be my preference, so I could easily return it if necessary.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are an increasing number of e-tailers with this in stock including J&R and ABT Electronics. I ordered from the latter.

Originally posted by HTBruceM
Except in the case of the Mitsubishi DLP, it always converts the HDMI input to analog internally before it is converted back to digital 720p. Seems crazy, but the thinking is they did this in order to leverage their existing designs/modules/circuits. So you have to ask yourself which of these two is better:

DVD_D/A-------(480pComponent)--------------MitsA/D-------Display (720p)

DVD_UpConvert----(HDMI)-------MitsD/A------MitsA/D-------Display (720p)

This sucks. Suckety sucks suck sux. The RCA DLP did as well, I believe. I wonder how many others do this? Maybe I'll overcome my apathy and start a thread on the topic ...

Are there any really awesome players with HDMI/DVI support that can be region hacked and do perfect PAL to NTSC conversion for under $400? I know about the Momitsu already but was looking for something a little more reliable.

Thanks

Not really. Denon 2910 may come close since it can be made region-free but its $650...sure can be had for less on web. Other than that Panny & Sony are good but no news how they could be made region-free.

I would still think with the Mitsubishi DLP, that coming in with a digital signal via the HDMI would give a better result, than coming in with analog via component.

Anyone with a Mitsubishi DLP been experimenting???

Originally posted by arcothunder
I would still think with the Mitsubishi DLP, that coming in with a digital signal via the HDMI would give a better result, than coming in with analog via component.

Anyone with a Mitsubishi DLP been experimenting??? Yeah. Hard to see any difference at all. Technically, the D/A in the Denon should result in a superior analog signal than the Mits HDMI-to-analog D/A converter. That said, you go through the final Mits A/D 720p converter no matter what, so you will always have that as potentially the weak link.

I've not done MB artifact A/B testing between the two, but beyond that, its pretty much a wash. Too bad the Denon doesn't have MPEG firewire output; that would enable a fully digital path in the Mits DLP.

Originally posted by gcbrowni
This sucks. Suckety sucks suck sux. The RCA DLP did as well, I believe. I wonder how many others do this? Maybe I'll overcome my apathy and start a thread on the topic ... Your response had me LOL; I felt the same way. ;)

Most opinions I'm seeing seem to favor the Panny s97 over the Denon 1910, which are about the same price. How do people feel about the panny compared to the Denon 2910, independent of the relative cost?

I want to buy a set with an HDMI, like the sony etc. My main interest is with the HDMI input for a cleaner PQ.I prefer that my plasma does the scaling. Can any of these DVD players internal scalers be over ridden or defeated? May sound like a simple/silly question, but I am curious. Thanks in advance.

What plasma do you have that has better scaling?

Jim,
I do not believe I said that the plasmas was better. It's a new pioneer. My comment was simply that the tv is already upconverting the signal whether it is dvd, cable etc. I was more concerned about, or if one upconverter took presidence or defaulted ? So I thought possibly the dvd players could somehow be bypassed , or similarily the one in the tv not used. If I am mis-understanding something with this process, please let me know. I just want to be sure that it will work and I am not buying something that I do not need.
thanks.

Has anybody really verified that upconverting is noticeably better? If you start with a 72 dpi jpeg it doesn't matter how high you increase the resolution, it's still looks like a 72 dpi jpeg. Why is an upconverting DVD player any different?

Don't know whether this help to answer the question.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=95576

Yes it does, thank you. Now which player upconverts best and can do component? ;)

Originally posted by rll
I want to buy a set with an HDMI, like the sony etc. My main interest is with the HDMI input for a cleaner PQ.I prefer that my plasma does the scaling. Can any of these DVD players internal scalers be over ridden or defeated? May sound like a simple/silly question, but I am curious. Thanks in advance.

rll

I have a Pio 5040HD and a Sony 975 player. Over HDMI, 720P source looks better than 420P, always! This has been explained before, more elegantly by others, but basically you want the system that does the mpeg-2 decoding to also do the upscaling, as that is where the scalar has access to the most data. By the time the player has decoded and scaled the media to 480P, your TV will have less info to upscale it up to 720P.

Gene

IMHO upconverting SD-DVD content is analogous to the "Digital Zoom" that you find on digital cameras or camcorders. In other words, it's a waste of time and money. The improvement in quality is negligible from what I've seen, and simply cannot compare to true HD content.

The best possible quality of a DVD can be seen on your computer, where there is no loss ... and it looks pretty lousy when you compare it to HD content played on the same computer. So why bother with up-converting a 480 signal to 720/1080 or adding a DVI output to a SD-DVD player? Come on, that's overkill to the extreme for no significant gain in quality.

On my digital camera and camcorder, I turn off digital zoom completely and go with only true optical zoom. I think we should also "turn off" DVD players which "upconvert" DVD signals to HD quality signals, and just wait for HD-DVD or use one of the newer players which play HD-DivX or HD-WMV content.

Some of us have displays with a fixed native resolution, and the scaling has to be done somewhere. Based on an audition I did yesterday of a Pioneer DV 59AVi DVD player into a Pioneer Pro-910 display, I can tell you that the 1080i signal sent to the plasma over HDMI was WAY better than the 480i or 480p picture sent over s-video.

Originally posted by satviewer2000

The best possible quality of a DVD can be seen on your computer, where there is no loss ... and it looks pretty lousy when you compare it to HD content played on the same computer. So why bother with up-converting a 480 signal to 720/1080 or adding a DVI output to a SD-DVD player?

What do you think your computer is doing? It IS upconverting the raw mpeg-2 signal directly to 720p or 1080i, or whatever your monitor resolution is. A upconverting DVD-player tries to do what the computer is doing, some more successful than others. And no, you cannot "add a DVI output to a SD-DVD player", either it has it or it doesn't!

Given that a 420p low-end DVD player costs $100, and a upconverting DVD player costs $200-$300 and dropping by the minute, it is definitely worth it to buy the latter if given the choice right now. No question, HD source is significantly better, but we're still at least a year away...

Gene

sorry double post

Which of the DVI/HDMI plays can have the HDCP turned off as I have aTW100 PJ that cant handle HDCP

Petrolhead: Momitsu comes to mind that can turn off HDCP. Maybe other non-US Players as well.

Never heard of this make. Whats the pic and sound qual like?

I just got the LG LST-3510A (HDTV Receiver + DVD player with upscaling to 720p or 1080i, and DVI-D and RGB outputs).

I have set it up to RGB output at 720p and connected a 15pin VGA to 5 x BNC cable to the RGBHV input of my CRT front projector. (no DVI input, no component input!)

It works fine for SD/HD DTV over-the-air (I haven't connected it to cable), but it won't play a commercial DVD on the RGB output (it says to use the component out at 480i/p instead). It works only with "non-commercial" DVDs.
It seems that upscaling to 720p/1080i is only available on the DVI-D output with HDCP for commercial DVDs.

It wasn't written in the brochure, but the manual says:
"RGB signal is not output through the RGB out jack during playing back a DVD which copy protection signals are recorded. We recommend that you use component video connection and 480 or 480i resolution"

Does anyone know if there is a way around this?
By the way, did anyone try the Region selection firmware via CD (using the LG5000 download) as listed on VideoHelp.comfor the LST-3510A?
What about MacroVsn?

JW

P.S.: I have a modified SONY DVP-S7700 (PAL/NTSC, Region free, MV free, no forced menus/trailers) with the Cinematrix PSM1 board installed inside, that outputs 720p on RGBHV BNC, but I was interested in getting the HDTV receiver in the same box.

BTW, does anyone who has the Momitsu 880 know if the DVI-I to VGA adapter allows DVD playback at 720p via VGA?

Originally posted by satviewer2000
IMHO upconverting SD-DVD content is analogous to the "Digital Zoom" that you find on digital cameras or camcorders. In other words, it's a waste of time and money. The improvement in quality is negligible from what I've seen, and simply cannot compare to true HD content.
True perhaps on purely theoretical grounds. But what is your analogy when your TV is native 720p? Seems to me there are legitimate choices in that scenario that could involve an upconverting DVD player....

For example, IF your TV is native 720p as all the recent DLPs are... the choice might be between the scaler in the DVD player and the scaler in the TV. Very good chance that one of them is most likely better than the other, wouldn't you agree? Could be a good reason right there to purchase a good upconverting DVD player.

Another example involving a native 720p display with both DVI/HDMI and component inputs. Because you've got to end up with 720p digital anyway, would you rather get there by doing D/A conversion to analog 480p or 480i signal and THEN convert A/D again and scale to 720p in the digital domain? Or would you rather upscale initially in the DVD player while still in the digital domain and THEN D/A to component at 720p resolution?

There are lots of options here, and each one will no doubt result in a different outcome. So while I can agree with you in principle, in actual usage, there are considerations that certainly legitimize purchasing an upscaling DVD player.

Originally posted by petrolhead
Never heard of this make. Whats the pic and sound qual like?

Search the board for it. Tons of threads on it. Some like it some don't. Considered great with DVI, not as good with Component. Check out my first first on this thread. Lots of links there for you to look deeper into this player. Also visit Extremephono's and Momitsu's website for details.

Originally posted by HTBruceM

For example, IF your TV is native 720p as all the recent DLPs are... the choice might be between the scaler in the DVD player and the scaler in the TV. Very good chance that one of them is most likely better than the other, wouldn't you agree? Could be a good reason right there to purchase a good upconverting DVD player.


Ahhh... thank you HTBruceM - Seems like I read forever to try to sort this out, and here it was on the last page!

I have a cheap progressive scan (Phillips) DVD player driving my Infocus 7200 over component. Ive been considering an upconverting player, but wasnt sure if I would REALLY see a difference. The 7200 seems to have a pretty good scaler (faroudja equipped).

I would love to see a little more punch from the DVD, as well as better blacks. I can clearly see a difference in picture quality between DVD and HDTV, but IMHO my DVD picture is noticeabley better than what a freind is getting on his Sammy 60 (Also not an upconverting DVD).

So... Have I already spent the money on the scaling? Is there still much advantage in an upconverting player based upon what Im looking for?

jc

Has anyone added the Toshiba SD-5970 DVD upconvert player to this list yet?

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/dvd/product.asp?model=sd-5970

I shall do that Trey, over this weekend. Thanks for reminding me.

OK, my DVD player just died last night and it's time for a new one.

I'd like an upconverting component, as my HDTV only has proprietary DVI (mitsubishi)

So component is the only way to go unless I'm mistaken (TV is the WS55513)

This is so much to search and sift through I was wondering if anyone could take a second and make a few reccomendations

Originally posted by MileHighJC
So... Have I already spent the money on the scaling? Is there still much advantage in an upconverting player based upon what Im looking for? You might consider running your el cheapo Philips in interlaced mode, if that's an option. I would place more confidence in the deinterlacer inside your Infocus rather than the one in that particular DVD player.

If you've got the stomach for a $650 DVD player, the Denon 2910 has a really, really good D/A although you'll only get 480p on the component out. The other option is go HDMI or DVI from your DVD player, and stay in the digital domain all the way; set it to generate 720p and your Infocus should just pass it directly to the light engine. I don't know the internal specs of the 7200; it might first convert all DVI/HDMI inputs to analog internally before final conversion to 720p. That's what my Mits DLP RPTV does (damn). Plus you'll get DVD-A and SACD capability to boot. Of course there are some alternative DVD players in the 300-350 range. Check the first post in this thread.

Is macroblocking a symptom of all upconverting component players, or moreso a problem with just the 318/LG?

MB (Macroblocking) is present in mostly all players that use the Faroudja chip- Zenith 318, Denon 1910/2910/3910, Panny S97, etc. Some companies have managed to reduce it a bit (2910 & 3910) and some are supposedly working on it (panny). I have the Panny and am going to wait until the Panasonic fixes the issue. Its not a deal-breaker for me and love the player overall.

Ok,

I have spent the last few hours reading this thread and I am still lost! My dad just got a 50" Samsung DLPTV with DVI input. I was going to get the Bravo D2 but I read some negative opinions about that. Then I was going to get the Samsung 841 and read some negative opinions about that, too. What DVD player do you recommend? I want to use DVI. Thanks guys!

Edwin

Try the Panny S97, Sony 975V or Denon 1910 players, in order of (my) preference with your DVI TV. You shall need a HDMI to DVI cable or an HDMI-HDMI/DVI-DVI cable with an HDMI-DVI adapter.

Will using a HDMI-DVI adapter lessen the PQ compared to a straight DVI connection?

Edwin

Nope. I use it and works absolutely the same. Just have to make sure you get the right adapter since there are two Monster adapters, and you should get the DVI (male) to HDMI (female). I got it from BB and used the HDMI cable that comes with Panny S97.

What do you use as an audio cable? And what's the cheapest price for it that you've seen? I looked around and it seems ************** has it for $275 + free shipping.

Edwin

How about adding the Onkyo dv-sp1000?

Originally posted by P Caulfield
How about adding the Onkyo dv-sp1000?

I second that motion!

I just bought the Toshiba SD-V596 DVD/VCR player that upconverts. (It's also model number SD-V592, the 596 is newer and just has cosmetic changes)

I'm very happy with this player so far, I use it with a Toshiba 52HMX94 and the upconvert looks great through HDMI.

The only issue I have with it, and it's a minor one, is that it's very bright through HDMI so I had to tone it down a little. Just a minor issue that's fixed when you adjust the TV settings.

Star Wars the Clone Wars looks great on the set and it also does a good job with movies that aren't as clean of a transfer. Examples being a few Godzilla movies I have that look good through the player.

Originally posted by Rob Tomlin
I second that motion!

say no more. :) I shall add that and Toshiba player today. Any threads dedicated to this player?

Originally posted by mallu2u
say no more. :) I shall add that and Toshiba player today. Any threads dedicated to this player?

To which player, the Toshiba or the Onkyo?

There is a thread on the Onkyo sp-1000. Not sure about the Toshiba.

Just added the Toshiba and Onkyo Players to the first post.

Rob: I shall search for threads on both players and then add them to the first post. If you have the link for Onkyo, post it here.

Sure:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=468036&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

And here is a link to the Integra DPS-10.5, which is extremely similar to the Onkyo:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=347804&highlight=integra

Updated the thread now with Onkyo thread info.

I bought the Toshiba SD-5970 before returning it and getting the Sony 975. Here's my take on the Toshiba:

Pros:
- Upconversion PQ is fantastic: 720p and 1080i looks great, maybe a bit better than the Sony, but unfortunately I didn't have both players simultaneously to make side-by-side comparisons

- Switch Resolution button on remote: This on-the-fly switch button is a must-have for PQ fanatics who want to see what the differences between 420p, 720p and 1080i look like. Sony has it buried in their menu, and you must STOP the movie to switch (boo!)

- Zoom button on the remote: Once again another plus for videophiles; and again Sony has this buried in their menus

Cons:
- Very cheap looking/feeling unit - facade is plastic, unit is very light weight... well, looks like a sub $200 DVD player! Sony on the other hand has a aluminum facade, better constructed case, and just looks classy

- Very unresponsive remote - I often have to push a button 2-3 times, even when directly pointing at the unit, to get a response. I also tried using a different universal remote, and same result; hence it's probably not the problem with the remote as it is with the RF receiver or just simply unresponsiveness of the OS (further confirmation of this is that I have to push the eject button at least twice on the unit itself to eject the disk!) This gets VERY annoying fast, and is the primary reason why I returned it.

- Cheap UI - menu looks very cheap, and problem further compounded by the bad navigation using the unresponsive remote

So in a nutshell, I recommend the Sony over the Toshiba!

Guys,

I do not think this can work but I am going to throw the question out to all of you to verify my answer.

This is the projector I have:

Toshiba TLP-670
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Toshiba_DPD-TLP-670.htm

Its an older model but it does support 1024x768 native resolution. Can I get a DVD player with a DVI output and connect a DVI to RGB converter. From the converter I run and RGB cable to the connection on the projector. It is converting from Digital to Analog but I can still get the benefit of the better quality signal over S-Video which is what I would have to use if this configuration does not work.

I have read on this forum about HDCP digital signal and if the projector will support that or not. I know this older model does not support that signal, does that make it the end all say all on the subject or can I still make this work.

Edit: I do not think I need to care about HDCP because that is a HD digital signal not DVD.

Jeremy

Updated info on NeuNeo player. Thanks to qunying for that.

I'd like an upconverting component, as my HDTV only has proprietary DVI (mitsubishi)

Your DVI port is not proprietary. It will work with any DVI/HDCP source.

Should'nt the I-O Data AVEL Linkplayer2 be on the list?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=459759

Mark: I shall put it there. Just had not had a chance to. For a long time, there were no uconverting players and now suddenly there are so many...very exciting!

Has anyone heard of this player? (http://www.extremephono.com/Oppo_DV971.htm) It has some interesting specs and uses the latest Faroudja chipset although it only upconverts over DVI, not component. That's OK in my situation as I only want the digital output. I want to preorder this player but haven't heard a thing about it. Extremephono is taking preorders for a release date of 12/15.

John

I just bought a Toshiba sd-v592 DVD-VCR combo w/ HDMI output. But when I hooked it up w/ my EDTV using the HDMI cable, the DVD playbacks seems to have some minor problems even though PQ is excellent . Every time a scene fades into another( lighter to darker), there are some mosaic blotches appear on the screen. Also, the blacks are greyish and there seem to be some reddish/green blotches in the shadows.

Does anyone know if it's a setting problem or the HDMI cable problem? Thanks.

Ray

Any planned JVC HDMI players planned?

Originally posted by rst123nyc
I just bought a Toshiba sd-v592 DVD-VCR combo w/ HDMI output. But when I hooked it up w/ my EDTV using the HDMI cable, the DVD playbacks seems to have some minor problems even though PQ is excellent . Every time a scene fades into another( lighter to darker), there are some mosaic blotches appear on the screen. Also, the blacks are greyish and there seem to be some reddish/green blotches in the shadows.

Does anyone know if it's a setting problem or the HDMI cable problem? Thanks.

Ray

I haven't had this problem with my player, my only problem is that the whites are so bright. White Crush maybe?
But it isn't that big of a deal, I have adjusted the TV.

Are there any articles comparing the Denon 3910's PQ and AQ to other players?

I have seen and heard this unit and it is awesome. But I wonder just how much better it is than others. I know that Reference Audio has some impressive mods to the audio chain in the 3910. But what else?

It seems from reading this thrad that the improvement in PQ depends on a few things and one of them is the scaling capability of your TV set.

Well I have a Sony KV-30HS420 and a 6 year old DVD Toshiba changer non-progressive.

Will I be able to tell a difference with the DVB318 over component?

Thanks

Would I have any Upscailing problems with a Optoma RD50H and Panasonic S79 DVD player?

I am considering either a Denon 2900, 2910, or 3910 to replace my antiquated Sony S7700. I have a Sony 70XBR950 HD set, so I'd like to take advantage of the upscaling feature. This pretty much rules out the 2900. Too bad..... I really like the build quality. The other problem I have is that I only have one DVI input on my Sony set, and that is currently taken by my cable HD box. It's my understanding that the only way to upscale is through DVI or HDMI. I recall recently reading a thread that mentioned some type of a "dual-adapter" or something to the effect of enabling multiple input of cables. Is that effective and does it ring a bell with anybody? Any other thoughts or recommendations regarding the DVD player or the alleged input device would be appreciated. Thanks....


Bill

Originally posted by kingbill
... I recall recently reading a thread that mentioned some type of a "dual-adapter" or something to the effect of enabling multiple input of cables. Is that effective and does it ring a bell with anybody? Any other thoughts or recommendations regarding the DVD player or the alleged input device would be appreciated. Thanks....

Bill

You want a hdmi or dvi switch box:

http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/DVI_monitor_cables.html

I notice the table and links in the first post are being updated, but is there some reason the Pioneer Elite DV-59avi is not on the list as a "universal" upscaling player? It's certainly been discussed enough in this forum.
--Bob

Can the list be updated to show which ones have VGA via the DVI connection like the V880 has and also which ones are Network capable.

Thanks.

Bob and Mark: Have been keeping very busy lately and therefore did not update the thread (or even visit the forum) for the few days. Will update the thread later today or tomorrow to add Pioneer player. I think there was another request that I shall add as well.

As for network-enabled players...I had created this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=446614&perpage=20&pagenumber=1 but the thread kinda got burried..

I guess I shall add those players to this thread now. Thanks for your input. Please let me know all the players that you find are missing from this thread.

What are some not-yet-released players that are getting some buzz? Any? Still looking for that perfect solution (*ahem* under $500).

Just added the Network-Capable column. Will add the new players next (today)

Mark: Do you know which players allow vga over DVI?

Added the AVeL LinkPlayer2 player info now.

What is the main thread for Pioneer 59avi?

I have now added the Pioneer DV59-AVI player as well. Not sure what is the main thread for this DVD Player on AVS though

AFAIK I think only the V880N has a DVI-I connector to allow DVI to VGA adaption. I think all the others have DVI-D connectors.

ok. Will update the thread.

Also I believe the V880DX has DVI to VGA. Not sure if you want to post them as one or seperate since one has network and the other does not....

they are separate. 880 and 880N.

Originally posted by kingbill
I am considering either a Denon 2900, 2910, or 3910 to replace my antiquated Sony S7700. I have a Sony 70XBR950 HD set, so I'd like to take advantage of the upscaling feature.

Bill,

Don't eliminate the 2900 so quickly. Your TV will upscale the 480P image to its native resolution. Then the question becomes, "Can I see a difference between the scalers in the 2910/3910 and my TV?"

If you can, what is that difference worth? Remember; you would also have to invest in a DVI switcher.

The consensus on this board is that the 2900's audio is better than the 2910. Where does that fit in your priorities?

Jeff

Originally posted by holyc0w
What are some not-yet-released players that are getting some buzz? Any? Still looking for that perfect solution (*ahem* under $500).

I don't think there is perfection with upscaling. What you are looking for is to squeeze the best picture you can out of a 480 signal. If you can get a noticably better picture, the question is how much is it worth to you?

Looks good but I would put COM/DVI/VGA for both of the V880's.

Also I think for #8 the Sony you mean SACD and not SVCD because most or all of these players play SVCD's... at least I know the V880N does...

thanks. corrected that.

mallu2u,

Thanks for the excellent list.

Do you think you can add some columns like
Black/White Crush over DVI, Macroblocking, Black/White Crush using HDMI to DVI converter?

IVe tried the Denon 1910 (sold on ebay), Samsung HD931 (returned for 941) and currently using the Panny S97 (love it except the mb!).

After reading about the other models, it seems that they ALL have problems.

This weekend, I got fed up with the macroblocking on the Panny (dark scenes in Collateral looked bad!).

I switched it to component input and calibrated it. Looks brilliant now!

I will stick with that until a firmware fix happens or another player comes out without these problems.

To be honest, I DO NOT see a difference with the Panny component input to my HLP6163 versus the upscaling HDMI input (I DID see a difference between component and DVI with the 931 and 1910).

Since my TV upconverts everything to 720p, I think that is why I do not see a difference (other than no macroblocking!!).

So, for now, its the panny s97 via component 480p.

We watched LOTR: FOTR and TTT extended versions yesterday and they looked brilliant! ROTK tonite!

So, for any of you with Sammy DLPs that are frustrated with macroblocking on the Panny S97, unhook the HDMI and set it up on Component and see if that works for you.

What Tv do you have rockstrongo ?

Originally posted by G.B.
What Tv do you have rockstrongo ?

Sammy DLP 61in HLP6163w

Originally posted by afasso
mallu2u,

Thanks for the excellent list.

Do you think you can add some columns like
Black/White Crush over DVI, Macroblocking, Black/White Crush using HDMI to DVI converter?

afasso: I would love to add 'specifications/features" as columns. Prob with things like MB/Black crush sometimes is that some people agree and others do not. Thats why I have not included it. Dont want this list to be subjective at all. Also, its hard to keep track of all issues that affect all the players. If I can get all the info frm a good source, I can surely add.

Mallu2u, Doe's the region free come from the factory like that , or do you need to do it in the service menu ? For the one's in question here is a good place to look. www.dvdhelp.com

I've read through the first and last of this thread, but have not found if anyone has done an A/B comparison of how upconverting improves specific scenes in (well known) movies. Is the improvement just as great in, say, the Superbit version of Spiderman as in older movies? In dark scenes vs outdoors? In color saturation, resolution, creating a 3-D look, what? I'd be very interested in reading such an account.

The improvement is overall. Adrienne Maxwell of Home Theater Magazine put this way.

"The thing about a magic show is, after the age of about eight, no one actually believes that they're witnessing acts of magic. The show's success is judged on the quality of the illusion. How well did that illusionist convince you that he just sawed his lovely assistant in half?
The up-converting DVD player is the illusionist of the A/V world. At this point, we certainly hope that no one believes this kind of player can turn a 480i signal into high-definition; however, if it appears to increase the resolution and still create a great DVD image, then we're sold."

Ok, I'm after what many of us want here - a networkable DVD player with upscaling functions. DVI isn't essential (component will do for now). The LinkPlayer looks ideal (just need to buy a small LAN-WIFI bridge device).... but looking at their web site this is shown in red:

*LinkPlayer doesn't have an upscaling function. The current market available DVD movie (480p SD) is by 480p out with no scaling even if LinkPlayer setting is 720p or 1080i HD mode. 720p DVD disc will come in a market, and it can be played by 720p output.

Errrr, so it doesn't do any upscaling? Is this true? If so it needs to be dropped from the main table on the first post.

Jonathan

I have compared different scenes from popular demo discs using my Sony DVP-NS975V qnd new Sony CRT HDTV (which can natively display all three resolutions) and my impression is that 480p is still the best rendtion of the picture. At first, the 720p and 1080i resolutions seemed sharper, but not really any more detailed. All seemed well, until I started to realize that the picture at 480p was simply smoother and more filmlike. The reason is that while the higher resolutions seem sharper, all they are really doing is extrapolating and expanding pixels in real time, and this creates edge enhancement. Once you see this enhancement, it is nearly impossible not to notice. It's not Phantom Menace bad, but you know it's there. 720p and 1080i look better than just increasing the sharpness control, but it still looks more digital than 480p. Not truly bad in any way, I just prefer the picture in 480p.

On another note, although I can't really see with demo scenes the green depression when using the higher resolutions, it is plainly visible using Avia. Hopefully Sony will release a firmware upgrade that will eliminate this as it's discouraging that two Sony products cannot be used successfully together using upconversion. If they do, I'll defintely take another look at the higher resolutions again to see if they make any improvements in the quality of the picture.

Either way, I am extremely happy with this DVD player, and would recommend it to anyone looking for a stunning 480p picture.

Mark, ideally, the up-converting player should be matched to a digital display via a digital connection for the best PQ.

Originally posted by jotter
...Errrr, so it doesn't do any upscaling? Is this true? If so it needs to be dropped from the main table on the first post.


That is wrong a non-owner has been posting that all day in the LinkPlayer thread.

On component both the US and the Japanese versions upscale all media (commercial DVDs, ripped DVDs, Video CDs, and networked media) to your selected output res of up to 1080i or 720p.

The Japanese version has DVI without HDCP and on DVI commercial and ripped DVDs will not upscale but networked media will. The US version with DVI won't be shipping until IODATA gets an HDCP implementation.

Paul (an Owner)

Ditto what Paul said.

Tom (an Owner)

Ditto what RockStrongo said too, although the upscaled 1080i component output from the LinkPlayer2 subjectively looks slightly better than 480p component output from my Panasonic RP82 (to the Sammy DLP), and is confirmed by the THX Optimizer bars. The Linkplayer resolves all the lines without moire and no macro-blocking. The Panny Faroudja deinterlacing is flawless of course, but the new Sigma chip seems very good.
(an Owner) :)

I have compared different scenes from popular demo discs using my Sony DVP-NS975V qnd new Sony CRT HDTV (which can natively display all three resolutions) and my impression is that 480p is still the best rendtion of the picture. At first, the 720p and 1080i resolutions seemed sharper, but not really any more detailed. All seemed well, until I started to realize that the picture at 480p was simply smoother and more filmlike.

Mark,

I agree 100%. I too have a Sony CRT HDTV and see no improvement with HDMI.

See my other post in another thread --- I compared the 775 to the 975 via component 480P and the image quality seems to be exactly the same -- with the 775 being $200.00 cheaper. :)

Originally posted by Mark Basile
IOn another note, although I can't really see with demo scenes the green depression when using the higher resolutions, it is plainly visible using Avia. Hopefully Sony will release a firmware upgrade that will eliminate this as it's discouraging that two Sony products cannot be used successfully together using upconversion. . . .

But isn't the "green depression" an issue that a firmware update cannot address, only a hardware fix/alteration could alleviate this problem?

Are there any upconverting DVD players that have RGB computer outputs or full DVI outputs so that I can use a RGB converter plug attachment? I am using a CRT projector which does not have DVI or component outputs. Thanks.

I have a Denon DVD-1910 which I am having problems with via the DVI hookup.

If I were to go purely by the reviews on the "Home Theater and High Fidelity" website, I would be inclined to trade the 1910 (score 82) for one of the following $300 and under units:

Toshiba - SD-V592 (DVD/VCR combo unit - score 92)
Panasonic - DVD-S97 (score 86)

Granted, with either of these I'd have to buy an HDMI/DVI adapter for my Monster Cable DVI400 cable...

FYI, I'm using a Sony KDP-57WS550 RPTV with the DVI hookup.

Would I be foolish to assume that a $250 player that scored a 92 is overall better than some of the $2,000 players that score significantly less in some instances? Sounds crazy...

Just because it received a good score does not mean that it's a great player. Many of us that ordered the V592 based on that score returned them.

Originally posted by Hi Deaf
Just because it received a good score does not mean that it's a great player. Many of us that ordered the V592 based on that score returned them.

May I ask what was your reason for returning it?

I'm just trying to find a good alternative to the DVD-1910 if I can't resolve my DVI issues with that player. I'm looking in the $300 and under range.

Thanks.

Originally posted by Bogey62
May I ask what was your reason for returning it?

I'm just trying to find a good alternative to the DVD-1910 if I can't resolve my DVI issues with that player. I'm looking in the $300 and under range.

Thanks.

The panasonic S97 is an excellent player if you have the right display. Unfortunately, I have the macroblocking issue (10-20% of my movies have it) on my DLP tv so I had to switch it over to component. Others displays may not have that issue though.

Im still very happy with the player (due to features and so on). I cannot tell the difference between the HDMI and COMP inputs on my tv so Im still happy (my tv upscales everything to 720p).

I hope that Panasonic comes out with a firmware fix or something so I can use the pure digital connection though (HDMI).

'I too have a Sony CRT HDTV and see no improvement with HDMI.'

Isn't all CRT technology analog? So there would not be a difference on an analog set using HDMI.

CD

Originally posted by Cattledog
'I too have a Sony CRT HDTV and see no improvement with HDMI.'

Isn't all CRT technology analog? So there would not be a difference on an analog set using HDMI.

CD

There might be. With HDMI, the TV would be doing the D-to-A conversion. With component, the player would be doing it.

FYI, you may be interested to know that any of those players that uses the Zoran HDXtreme upscaling chipset (Zoran ZR36721 chip) is a potential candidate for the addition of analog RGBS outputs with only minor player modifications. The chip has analog RGBS outputs that I'm trying to get some data on.

I have posted a new topic explaining what am trying to do in this forum.

My ultimate intent is to build a mod kit that can be installed in any HDXtreme chip-equipped player that provides analog RGBS outputs. This is likely to be well received by CRT projector owners at least, if I am successful.



CJ

I have a Sony KDP-65WS550 CRT based 65" DVI equipped RPTV. This set has native 480p and 1080i scan rates (does not convert 480p to 540p). I had been using a Panasonic XP50 DVD player via component. I was VERY skeptical of the value a DVI equipped player for this display. I purchased a 3910 from the good guys knowing that if it wasn't any better than the XP50 I could easily return it.

Using the test patterns on Digital Video Essentials and Avia, the difference was quite clear. Via component 480p the 3910 was slightly better than the Xp50 resolution wise, and identical in terms of de-interlacing and basic color/YC delay performance. Via 480p DVI resolution was considerably improved, even on this 65" CRT RPTV. Watching actual movies the difference was clearly visible in many of the scenes as well.

So I was EXTREMELY skeptical of the need for a DVI DVD player, but in actually purchasing one and testing things out, it was clear DVI was better even on my CRT system. Even when comparing the 3910 via 480p component to the 3910 via 480p DVI, the difference in resolution was clear.

I had no issues with green push/depression, white or black crush, or passing below black either. The whole thing went pretty smoothly for me. Comparing DVI 480p to 1080i, it seemed 480p was somewhat better as I detected what appeared to be subtle scaling artifacts on the 1080i image that were not present at 480p. Since the source material is all 480 resolution, and my display supports a native 480p scan rate, it seems 480p is the way to go in my setup.

Overall I would say if you have a fairly modern, decent quality large CRT display DVI is definately worthwhile.

Moral of the story: Sometimew you have to shell out enough cash to tell the difference between DVI and component, but if you purchase a player as good as the 3910 is, it will verify that, yes, DVI can be better!

Originally posted by Artwood
Moral of the story: Sometimew you have to shell out enough cash to tell the difference between DVI and component, but if you purchase a player as good as the 3910 is, it will verify that, yes, DVI can be better!

And sometimes it's the shelling out that tells you there's a difference.

Most anecdotal evidence can be translated to this:

"I bought the blank."

I have been very skeptical about the value of DVI, I purchased the 3910 to satisfy my own curiosity, locally from The Good Guys so I could take it back when it did not perform any better than my XP50. I was almost totally confident that the XP50 would be as good as, or even perhaps better than the 3910. It was as much of a surprise to me as anyone else that the 3910 proved significantly better on my display, for whatever reason.

I'm simply stating the facts as measured by observation with various test patterns on well known calibration discs, as well as my DVD collection and experience with home theater displays.

I'm not saying the 3910 is any better or worse than any other DVI/HDMI display, I didn't mean to suggest that. I'm merely stating my observations and experiences with high quality component DVD sources vs. DVI sources on a 65" CRT display.

About 5-6 weeks ago I purchased a Sony 42WE655 RPLCD, and I love the set but wanted to purchase a new DVD player to go along with my new set.

So after reading all about the merits of the new up-converting/HDMI players I thought I would pick one up (Sony NS975V) . I also bought a new Onkyo CP-702 6 disk CD/DVD Changer/Progressive Scan 480P - standard stuff.

Well after watching a few DVD's - Minority Report, I Robot, animation and others..I'm having a very hard time justifying the extra $100 for the Sony plus the 1 disk vs 6 disk capacity advantage.

Question - On a 42 HD/RPLCD is the improvement in PQ not able to be seen, because the screen is too small? Maybe if I had a 50+ or a larger front projected image, a difference could be seen..

I look at scene after scene...and I just don't see any significant difference between 1080i/720p HDMI Cable...and 480p component on the Onkyo Changer.

I was surprised...

Thanks,
-mike-

Did you calibrate each player separately prior to your tests? I don't think you can accurately compare two players unless each have been calibrated for your display.

It would be nice to see some additional information in the table in the first post of this thread. (macroblocking?, pros, cons, etc)

I know there is somet work there, but I think there are enough people out there who know this stuff to get a quick summary of each player. It is really hard to dig through hundreds (or thousands) of posts on each player to find out this info.

Originally posted by kdog044
Did you calibrate each player separately prior to your tests?

I hate to ask this but can somebody elaborate on this? I am a newbie on this. What does this mean? How do you accomplish this?

Originally posted by bigcat
I hate to ask this but can somebody elaborate on this? I am a newbie on this. What does this mean? How do you accomplish this?

Buy either the "Avia Guide to Home Theater" or "Digital Video Essentials" calibration DVDs and use it to adjust your set's color, etc. It makes a huge difference. Check amazon.com

Originally posted by Bogey62
Buy either the "Avia Guide to Home Theater" or "Digital Video Essentials" calibration DVDs and use it to adjust your set's color, etc. It makes a huge difference. Check amazon.com

Thanks Bogey62 ... I will look for these

I was told that rear projection DLP and LCD tv's do not require calibration. If that's true... would getting this AVIA demo disc be worthwhile to me or is it for CRT sets? I have a Hitachi 60V500 LCD.

Thanks!

You don't have to set convergence with those sets, but you still need to calibrate them (color, etc.) to get the best picture. I have a DLP and and the DVE disc. Well worth it, both for the calibration, and for the peace of mind that you have it setup correctly. :)

-Max

Well, I just received a Denon DVD-1910 from Crutchfield yesterday to possibly replace my Bravo D1. Unlike some others, I have not had any real problems with my Bravo until very recently... the power supply failed after about 20 months of daily use. I sent in the power supply board to V Inc. for repair and will get the Bravo up and running again soon.

OK, on to the Denon. I should start out by mentioning I have a Samsung HLN467W DLP and have been viewing DVD's upscaled to 720p with the Bravo the entire time I've owned it. Before that, I had the 43" Samsung DLP, so I have lots of viewing time in with the Bravo. So, I hook up the Denon 1910 with no problems. It is very lightweight, but appears to be a little bit better built than the Bravo D1. Loading a DVD into the Denon is quieter than the Bravo, too. I started with the superbit Fifth Element and Monsters Inc.

First of all, I notice the blacks are noticeably washed out due to the Denon being defaulted to a black level setting that has to be shut off. After that, I used the THX Optimizer on the Monsters Inc. DVD to adjust my Samsung DLP a bit. I think the Denon has a little more luma output than the Bravo. On playback, The Fifth Element looked fine, but Monsters Inc. had lots of macroblocking in the shadows... way more than my Bravo. I noticed this right away. Even my wife, who is no videophile, noticed the problem. I have to say that the clarity and detail of the Denon 720p DVI output is not any better than the Bravo D1, IMHO. Don't get me wrong, the picture is impressive... just not any better (plus definitely has macroblocking issues with certain types of source material).

Annoyingly, 4:3 material is stretched with the Denon. So, classic movies and childrens DVD's that are 4:3 do not play in the correct aspect ratio using the DVI output with the Samsung DLP. You can switch to component 480p to overcome this, of course... but it is a pain in the butt and defeats the purpose of having a DVI enabled scaling DVD player. The Samsung DLP does not have a way to correct for this on the DVI input, either.

So, I was hoping the Denon was going to be great... but like the Zenith 318, it is a disappointment that it won't work for my particular setup. I'll be returning the Denon to Crutchfield for a refund.

I have seen many 3 panel DLP and LCD sets that could have benefitted from a little tweaking of their panel alignments. Some were noticeably out of mechanical alignment, causing color fringes on every pixel.

CJ

Is it possible to add to this list what type of chip is used for upconversion. I know most are Faroudja, but it would be nice to know the others too.

The Zoran HDXtreme chipset is one that's used in the Samsung DVD-HD841 player as well as at least one model of Toshiba player, and others as well.

It has RGB analog outputs right on the chip. When I know more about those outputs, I'm modding my player to bring those outputs to the back panel, which Samsung did not see fit to do.

I may then offer a service to install that mod in any player that uses that chipset.

CJ

Bravo upscaling players use the Sigma Designs chip.

anyone have a samsung hd931? Having black level problems on inside and night scenes. Will be calling samsung to see if they have a fix. Anyone having the same issues?

theroys88,

The Samsung players (particulary the 931, 831,941) have a known issue of not being able to pass Black-than-Black. Which leads to the issues you are discribing. I believe the 931 is the oldest of the players and as far I have seen/heard they haven't put out a firmware fix and will likely be focusing on the newer players (which I still do not believe will get a fix IMO). Check out the hometheaterhifi site benchmark on DVD players: (following link is for Samsung players only (filtered)).
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all&type=DVD+Player&manufacturer=27&maxprice=0&deInt=0&mpeg=0

And of course a ton of threads on the 931 and it's blacker than black issues which might have been in the forms archived threads by now. Best of luck with the player.

VERY BOGUS DEMO of Samsung HD850 Upconverting DVD at CES2005.

Samsung was touting the improvement of their latest upconverting DVD player by showing the "before" picture on one 42" PDP and the "after" picture on a seemingingly identical 42" PDP right next to it. Each was driven by an HD850, presumably Component Video on the left and DVI on the right, although this was not clearly marked in their description.

The PDP on the left had the contrast and brightness controls so out of whack I could barely make out the image. The PDP on the right was clearly better, but wasn't much different from any other DVD player display elsewhere at the convention.

I remarked to the Samsung rep at the display about how misleading this demo came across....not only blatant false adversising....but also how it appears to demonstrate deficiencies in the HD850's Component Video output. Why would anyone want to buy the HD850???

I remarked that I would be truly impressed if the demonstration had announced fixing the "Black Crush" problem that I and others have seen in the HD841/931 DVD players. But the rep did not know if this problem had been fixed in the HD850....and was visibly embarassed by the obviously bogus presentation.

It amazes me that in this day and age, in...what...the fifth generation of DVD players...that some companies could actually drop the ball on this issue and be putting out DVD players that don't pass blacker than black.

I have a Samsung HD841. I can still return it. And I might yet decide to do that.

My twin Pioneer DV525s do a fine job, but I wanted upscaling output. Turns I can't even get that out of the 841 without modding the player to bring the RGB outputs from the chipset to the back panel on separate connectors. (I don't have a DVI-D converter.)

CJ

The manufacturers could probably learn a lot by reading the AVS Forum. I suspect when people call into the "customer service" department of manufacturers that rarely does the correct message (or any message for that matter) get to the designers of these products or the technicians who repair these products.

from what i have read, none of these dvd players are perfect and a perfect one won't be out for a while.

Unfortunately, I am in the market for an upscaling dvd player now and have to make a choice. To add to this problem, my budget is somewhere between $200 -$300.

Can someone give me their safest bet on which dvd player I should purchase? I have a 42" HD Plasma, no HDMI input, just dvi.. views 480p/i,720p,1080i.

Your support is greatly appreciated.

I enjoy reading all of the posts on this website, especially the guy in displays who was complaining about the pixilation when standing 3ft away from his 42" plasma. funny stuff...

The Samsung HD841 player has a DVI-D output.

The competing Toshiba player does not. It has an HDMI connector.

The Samsung player seems to be pretty good, except for its black level issue.

CJ

i heard that you can use a HDMI to DVI connector in these types of situations... is this bad?

Can someone please say... "I would buy the XXXXXX DVD Player if I was you. I haven't had any terrible issues with mine."

Thanks!

I use a HDMI-DVI cable on my Sony 975. $13 shipped on ebay. works perfect.

and the sony 975 is in my pricerange also...

Originally posted by WynsWrld98
The manufacturers could probably learn a lot by reading the AVS Forum. I suspect when people call into the "customer service" department of manufacturers that rarely does the correct message (or any message for that matter) get to the designers of these products or the technicians who repair these products.

Word Wayne.

Not a truer and more insightful word spoken.

Hello all,

I have a Sony KV-34XBR910 television set with the DVI. The manual states:

"Can accomodate a copy-protected digital connection (HDCP*) to other devices...that have compatible interfaces."

Question,
does that mean that any input device that I connect to my tv via the DVI MUST have the HDCP on it? Do the DVD players that I am looking for that have a DVI have to have HDCP. I would like to purchase a DVD player that does not do HDCP.

Am I stuck?

Second question.... What is this "Black Crush" everyone is referring to?

Am now owner of Toshiba 5970. It is hooked up to my Toshiba 34hf84 direct view CRT. The PQ is breathtaking. Though it is hooked up via HDMI I cannot comment on up-conversion. I can only reiterate that the PQ is great w/ (at this point) no visible defects, macro-blocking, etc. CD audio is decent. Build quality not great. Remote not intuitive, but everything seems to work perfectly. Calibrating HDMI input went easily. Furthermore, I was able to free up my component cables and use them on my HD cable input instead of those crappy cables Adelphia used. Noticeable improvement on my HD! So far it seems like a win-win situation.

Originally posted by captainfish
Hello all,

I have a Sony KV-34XBR910 television set with the DVI. The manual states:

"Can accomodate a copy-protected digital connection (HDCP*) to other devices...that have compatible interfaces."

Question,
does that mean that any input device that I connect to my tv via the DVI MUST have the HDCP on it? Do the DVD players that I am looking for that have a DVI have to have HDCP. I would like to purchase a DVD player that does not do HDCP.

Am I stuck?

Second question.... What is this "Black Crush" everyone is referring to?

HDCP is just a standard -- I think you'll be hard pressed to find a newer TV or DVD player, etc. that doesn't support the copy protection. You have no worries...

Black crush is a lack of dark end details caused by nonlinear performance. Look at a test pattern with a grey scale on it. Every box in the pattern should have a different visible grey level to it. On a unit that has a black crush problem, the darkest grey boxes will appear to be black instead of dark grey. Some boxes will appear to be the same shade of black or grey, and that's wrong.

Some players just output the signal like that. Darned if I know why the manufacturers allow it, except that the mass market consumer probably wouldn't notice or care.

CJ

Thank you both very much!!!

2 meg download
test patterns

http://www.milori.com/download/files/ctestpat.exe

mallu2u,
Please add the Pioneer Elite 59avi Owners Thread to the first post here as the master thread for the 59avi. Rob was kind enough to finally start one. Thanks!
--Bob

Originally posted by Bob Pariseau
mallu2u,
Please add the Pioneer Elite 59avi Owners Thread to the first post here as the master thread for the 59avi. Rob was kind enough to finally start one. Thanks!
--Bob

Thanks Bob, I second the motion.

:)

Alright guys,

I've just read through most of the pages here and I (and probably a lot of others) would appreciate quick summaries (flaws) on the following players currently on the market:

Samsung DVD-HD841: Black issues?

Sony DVP-NS975V: Build issues?

Bravo D2

Toshiba SD-5970

Denon DVD-1910

LG LGDVB418

Panasonic DVD-S97S

Thanks in advance...

Originally posted by Todd_zilla
Alright guys,

I've just read through most of the pages here and I (and probably a lot of others) would appreciate quick summaries (flaws) on the following players currently on the market:

Samsung DVD-HD841: Black issues?

Sony DVP-NS975V: Build issues?

Bravo D2

Toshiba SD-5970

Denon DVD-1910

LG LGDVB418

Panasonic DVD-S97S

Thanks in advance...

I think you forgot the Oppo DV971H, Samsung HD 941, Toshiba SD v592! :D

<i am confused too!>

Video is still pretty new to me and I may be wrong about this but I know that in the world of audio just as much a factor as the quality of the individual componnets is how they match up with other commponents. I just bought a Toshiba 5970. It is hooked up via HDMI to a Tosh 34hf84 direct view HDCRT. It performs flawlessly! "1080" is indistinguishable from real 1080. Perhaps it plays well, for example, with crts and bad with plasma, just a thought, But there is this thread and plenty others about upconverting DVD players. I might pay particular attention to what pwoplw who had my type of TV had to say about their players. I don't know if I'm right. Just a thought/I would also pay attention to how they are hooked up, HDMI, DVI, HDMI to DVI, etc.

Anyone heard or have one of this????
http://www.snazzishop.com/netdvd.asp
If you have one or any knowledge of it please post. I'm interested.
TIA

This may be an interesting player since according to specs it will upconvert
via component and DVI. I wonder what chip it is using?

"SnaZio* Net DVD Cinema is a key component of the new Digital Home Lifestyle Solution that will revolutionise your Digital Media Entertainment experience. With the help of the latest digital decoding technology, Net DVD Cinema delivers Audio Visual output of uncompromised quality up to 720p and 1080i HDTV resolution via the DVI and Component Video output suitable for Plasma display."

I shall add the Pioneer 59avi's info first thing tmrw morning. Thanks for the info Bob.

Originally posted by mallu2u
I shall add the Pioneer 59avi's info first thing tmrw morning. Thanks for the info Bob.

How about the Oppo?

Just added the master thread info for Pioneer 59 AVI. Now on to Oppo player.

Updated the Oppo DV971H info as well now. Thanks for the reminder Bjorn

Which dvd player is the best to buy for upconverting? Does anybody rank the players from worst to best?

Toshiba SD-5960
$199
Spring ‘04

LG DVB-318
$199
1Q 2004

Bravo D2
$249
Q2 ‘04

Samsung DVD-HD841
$249.99
Q3 ‘04

Toshiba SD-V592
$299
Spring ‘04
Integrated DVD + VCR

Panasonic DVD-S97
$299.95
April ‘04

Bravo D3
$349
Mid-year
WM9 Support

Samsung DVD-HD941
$349.99
Q3 ‘04
DVD-Audio, SACD

Philips DVD975SA
$569
February ’04
SACD

Philips DVDR90 DVD Recorder
$999
February ‘04

TY in advance

Starting with BEST, I would say: Panasonic S97-->Sony 975-->Denon 1910-->Zenith DVB 318-->Samsung 941/Toshiba592.
Thats just my .02

Originally posted by JesusisGod
Which dvd player is the best to buy for upconverting? Does anybody rank the players from worst to best?


It really depends on the display and what irritates you the most.

You left off the Momitus V880DX though ($250)!

I have tried 4 upconverting players (Denon, Panny, Samsung and Momitsu).

The V880DX is the best in my opinion (no mb, passes BTB, region free, macrovision free, pal>NTSC converter, custom resolutions, upscale over component and plays MPEG4).

Personally, I do not see why this player is overlooked so much!

I have had it for a couple weeks and it has been great.

Originally posted by mallu2u
Starting with BEST, I would say: Panasonic S97-->Sony 975-->Denon 1910-->Zenith DVB 318-->Samsung 941/Toshiba592.
Thats just my .02

Mallu2u:

WHy didnt u put the Momitsu 880DX in your list? What do you think of it compared to the ones you listed?

I also have another question. I have been following the rumors on Xbox2 and PlayStation 3. THe Xbox 2 will ship with HD-DVD playback and the PlayStation 3 will ship with Blu-ray playback.

Xbox2 HD-DVD rumor:

http://xbox.ign.com/articles/554/554095p1.html?fromint=1

Blu-Ray annouced for PS3:

http://www.ps3portal.com/?view=article&article=39&PHPSESSID=4677f1687666b02786ff42e4267587d3

Does anyone believe or know if either of these game machines will upconvert to higher resolutions like the Momitsu 880DX? Because if they will I would just rather wait for them to be released.

Ty in advance.

Originally posted by RockStrongo


The V880DX is the best in my opinion (no mb, passes BTB, region free, macrovision free, pal>NTSC converter, custom resolutions, upscale over component and plays MPEG4).



Get Rock, I own the Samsung DynaFlat HDTV TX-P3076WH:

http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?prod_id=TXP3076WHX%252fXAA

My HDTV has 1 DVI input with HDCP. What does that mean?

I also read dakewldude say this in the Panasonic DVD-S97S FAQ / Brain dump thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=463025&perpage=20&highlight=Panasonic%20S97&pagenumber=121

HDMI is a newer digital connectivity standard that is electrically compatible with DVI, but adds some new features to the standard (audio over the same cable, and a form of copy protection).

Though it's electrically compatible with DVI, it's not physically compatible. As such, you will require an adapter or an HDMI-to-DVI-D cable in order to connect this player to your TV. (Most people here would reccommend that you use the cable, as adapters have been known to introduce ghosting in some cases.)

Edit: As stated above by rwestley, you'll also have to ensure that you don't have any HDCP-related issues.

How do I know if my Samsung has HDCP related issues or is everything ok?

Originally posted by JesusisGod
Mallu2u:

WHy didnt u put the Momitsu 880DX in your list? What do you think of it compared to the ones you listed?

I also have another question. I have been following the rumors on Xbox2 and PlayStation 3. THe Xbox 2 will ship with HD-DVD playback and the PlayStation 3 will ship with Blu-ray playback.

Xbox2 HD-DVD rumor:

http://xbox.ign.com/articles/554/554095p1.html?fromint=1

Blu-Ray annouced for PS3:

http://www.ps3portal.com/?view=article&article=39&PHPSESSID=4677f1687666b02786ff42e4267587d3

Does anyone believe or know if either of these game machines will upconvert to higher resolutions like the Momitsu 880DX? Because if they will I would just rather wait for them to be released.

Ty in advance.

Momitsu 880 Deluxe is same as 880DX on my list.

Originally posted by mallu2u
Momitsu 880 Deluxe is same as 880DX on my list.

Which means?

Howdy mallu2u,

I believe he was asking where does the Momitsu V880DX fit in with the short list 5 post above about which upconverting dvd works best

Originally posted by RockStrongo
It really depends on the display and what irritates you the most.

You left off the Momitus V880DX though ($250)!

I have tried 4 upconverting players (Denon, Panny, Samsung and Momitsu).

The V880DX is the best in my opinion (no mb, passes BTB, region free, macrovision free, pal>NTSC converter, custom resolutions, upscale over component and plays MPEG4).

Personally, I do not see why this player is overlooked so much!

I have had it for a couple weeks and it has been great.

it's overlooked cuz some people are anti-momitsu, or had bad experience with the original, or they are fanbois. I've had my momo v880dx since oct 2004, its been problem-free and has a great picture

Let me add though, I think Momitsu needs to drop their price to less than $200

I want to hook up HDMI to my projector. Would component audio portion work in parallel with HDMI for most DVD players?

I have a Mitsu 52" DLP with HDMI input...I have read a lot on these forums lately about upconverting dvd players, but it's all overwhelming.

Which HDMI dvd player would you get for a 52" Mitsu DLP??

Thanks for your opinions.

Originally posted by igotgame
I have a Mitsu 52" DLP with HDMI input...I have read a lot on these forums lately about upconverting dvd players, but it's all overwhelming.

Which HDMI dvd player would you get for a 52" Mitsu DLP??

Thanks for your opinions.

I'm in the same boat - TOTAL noob with a new Sony 55" Grand Wega with HDMI. I'd really like an upconverting player but I'm struggling with the sheer volume of data on this forum. Can anyone make it easy?

Don

Originally posted by JesusisGod
Get Rock, I own the Samsung DynaFlat HDTV TX-P3076WH:

http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?prod_id=TXP3076WHX%252fXAA

My HDTV has 1 DVI input with HDCP. What does that mean?

Here is a good definition of HDCP....

http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/H/HDCP.html

You should not have any problems with the players mentioned.

I also read dakewldude say this in the Panasonic DVD-S97S FAQ / Brain dump thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=463025&perpage=20&highlight=Panasonic%20S97&pagenumber=121

HDMI is a newer digital connectivity standard that is electrically compatible with DVI, but adds some new features to the standard (audio over the same cable, and a form of copy protection).

Though it's electrically compatible with DVI, it's not physically compatible. As such, you will require an adapter or an HDMI-to-DVI-D cable in order to connect this player to your TV. (Most people here would reccommend that you use the cable, as adapters have been known to introduce ghosting in some cases.)

Edit: As stated above by rwestley, you'll also have to ensure that you don't have any HDCP-related issues.

How do I know if my Samsung has HDCP related issues or is everything ok?

I have a Samsung DLP and have had no issues with the Panasonic or others listed in my post. I doubt you will either. If you buy the panny, you just need to buy and HDMI>DVI cable. They are fairly cheap on ebay ($15-25).

I think I have narrowed my decision down to 3 choices...in the $200-$300 range...now which player do I choose? I have a 52" Mitsu DLP...if you can help me decide I would appreciate it.

Panasonic DVD-S97S

Sony DVP-NS975V

V Bravo D2


I have read countless reviews and expert opinions and still don't know which one to get. Any opinions will be appreciated. Thanks

Originally posted by igotgame
if you can help me decide I would appreciate it.


Momitsu V880DX ;)

or the Panny (if you dont have a mb problem with the MITS)

Rock

Where can I look at the Momitsu V880DX?? or better yet where can I purchase it?

I assume its probably better than ALL 3 of the players I listed correct?

http://www.extremephono.com/momitsu_dvd_v880.htm

The word "better" is subjective. You'll find many different opinions on this forum. ;)

Yea I guess on these forums "Better" is a VERY subjective word.

Man too many choices for me. The bravo D2 appears better to me because of custom resolutions and better color than the sony, but I don't know how it compares to the panasonic. I can't find a whole lot of info on the panasonic although I haven't searched these threads a whole lot for that particular DVD player.

Is the panny known to have mb issues?? Got a good link to the panasonic?

You'll find many, many people like the Bravo and Momitsu models. I personnally have the Momitsu. I just looked on Panasonic's web site and found this:

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11251&catalogId=11005&itemId=71539&catGroupId=11059&modelNo=DVD-S97S&surfModel=DVD-S97S

Looks like a nice player. Does your mits have a DVI or HDMI? If it does than you for sure will want a player with those matching outputs.

Originally posted by mflagg
Howdy mallu2u,

I believe he was asking where does the Momitsu V880DX fit in with the short list 5 post above about which upconverting dvd works best

thanks. Now I know what he meant. I shall reply back

Originally posted by JesusisGod
Which means?

I have personally not owned or tested the Momistu. But from what I have heard and read on the forum, I would rate it along Denon 1910. People love the machine for its flexibility but sometime complain about its build quality, Graphical Interface and few issues. Overall there have been positives for Momitsu and therefore I would imagine its around Denon 1910. Bravo is one machine I would stay away from, due to issues people have had dealing with their customer support.

I've had a Bravo D1 running daily for over 20 months with no problems and a fantastic upscaled picture through the DVI (into a Samsung DLP). A power supply cap recently failed, so I sent the board to V Inc. for repair. Less than a two week turn around and only $40. The D1 is up and running just fine again.

V Inc. was quite responsive and friendly to me. I know others have lamented about the Bravo, but mine has been a good machine, especially for what I paid for it.

I've since tried the Zenith 318 and the Denon 1910. Not impressed with either, and both of them do not pillarbox 4:3 material... a real pain in the butt with no solution for Sammy DLP owners.

My mitsu has HDMI input so I will definitely read up on the panasonic

thanks for the input..

I am thinking maybe the Bravo D2 or the Panasonic as my choices now

MAN..where can you buy the Panasonic DVD player..I only see ONE site on the entire internet that sells it. That's CRAZY...and I tried to find a dealer close to me that sells it but that function on their website isn't working for me.

If anyone has a link to purchase the panasonic let me know. Thanks!

I own the Denon 1910, and although it has a great picture ***most*** of the time, the macroblocking and occassional complete loss of picture (DVI sync issue I suspect) make it completely unacceptable to me. The Denon rep I emailed about these issues was not helpful and instead chose to blame them on "DVD to monitor interface compatibility". Yeah, right. Maybe he can explain why my cheap Panasonic Rp-62k dvd player worked FLAWLESSLY with two different projectors. The only reason I "upgraded" (what a joke) is for the DVI output.

Originally posted by mallu2u
But from what I have heard and read on the forum, I would rate it along Denon 1910.

Ive owned the Denon and the Momitsu. The Momitsu blows it away. The picture has no green push or mb like the Denon. Also, the Momitus has more features, is region free and has a PAL to NTSC converter. I think there is no comparison.

In my opinion (remember my display is a Sammy DLP), the momitsu is slightly better than the panny S97 (due to mb). With a different display, that may change.

People love the machine for its flexibility but sometime complain about its build quality, Graphical Interface and few issues. Overall there have been positives for Momitsu and therefore I would imagine its around Denon 1910.

I do not think the new DX has issues with build quality (at least mine hasn't). I agree that the menus are not pretty and overall, it is an ugly player (my fiancee loved the sleek look of the panny and grimaced at me changing). But, the performance is very very good.

Unfortunately, you cannot go to a store and try out a momitsu. And, most places where you can buy it have big restocking fees if you wanted to return it.

Bravo is one machine I would stay away from, due to issues people have had dealing with their customer support.

I have never tried a Bravo, but like you, heard too many bad things.

Originally posted by igotgame
My mitsu has HDMI input so I will definitely read up on the panasonic

thanks for the input..

I am thinking maybe the Bravo D2 or the Panasonic as my choices now

MAN..where can you buy the Panasonic DVD player..I only see ONE site on the entire internet that sells it. That's CRAZY...and I tried to find a dealer close to me that sells it but that function on their website isn't working for me.

If anyone has a link to purchase the panasonic let me know. Thanks!

The panny S77 is coming out in a couple months. That may be the one to get.

They might have fixed the macroblocking for it, but we arent sure yet.

Ok..with the Momitsu..its DVI..

If I use a DVI->HDMI cable..am I going to lose any quality or cause any problems (such as green push, etc...)???

This is on a 52" Mitsu DLP keep in mind.

So the momitsu doesn't have the macroblocking problems of the Panny. Anything else that differ about the players or makes one better than the other?

Originally posted by igotgame
Ok..with the Momitsu..its DVI..

If I use a DVI->HDMI cable..am I going to lose any quality or cause any problems (such as green push, etc...)???

No, you shouldnt unless the cable is defective. HDMI and DVI are basically the same thing, except HDMI includes audio in the connection.

They are both pure digital connections. Where component and everything under it are analog.

This is on a 52" Mitsu DLP keep in mind.

So the momitsu doesn't have the macroblocking problems of the Panny. Anything else that differ about the players or makes one better than the other?

Personally, I do not know if the MB from the panny is a problem on MITS DLP. I would assume that it will be since its basically the same technology as the Sammy.

But, it seems like I do remember someone saying that the MITS DLP signal actually goes through an analog process which might filter the mb out. Im really not sure though. The Sammy HDMI/DVI connection is purely digital though.

Again, as stated, the momitsu is not a pretty player, but is region free, macrovision free, upconverts with component (which you probably wont need), PAL to NTSC converter, plays DIVX/MPEG4 and has custom resolutions.

The momitsu is also about $20-$50 cheaper depending on where you get it.

If you think you will use any of those, then it is a benefit over the panny.

BTW - The momitsu didn't get very good scores on the shootout and is kind of looked down on due to the initial release having issues. They re-released it as a DX model which fixed the majority of the problems. They also regularly release firmware updates whereas many companies do not.

ONE MAJOR THING - Momitsu remote conflicts with Pioneer receivers. If you have one, either sell it and get something else or do not get the momitsu. For some reason, they accidentally used the same IR codes that Pioneer used. I like the momitsu so much that I sold my pioneer and bought a HK recevier.

Rock...thanks for all your input..

You have really helped me a lot. I don't have any pioneer products so that's a good thing.

Again, as stated, the momitsu is not a pretty player, but is region free, macrovision free, upconverts with component (which you probably wont need), PAL to NTSC converter, plays DIVX/MPEG4 and has custom resolutions.

Those things are REALLY important to me (especially the ability to play divx/mpeg4 and custom resolutions) and have sold me on this player. Now to drop $250 bones on it and get it here quickly. I have only found 2 online stores that carry it. Anyone have a link to a reliable store that carries the momitsu 880dx??

Originally posted by igotgame
Rock...thanks for all your input..

You have really helped me a lot. I don't have any pioneer products so that's a good thing.

Again, as stated, the momitsu is not a pretty player, but is region free, macrovision free, upconverts with component (which you probably wont need), PAL to NTSC converter, plays DIVX/MPEG4 and has custom resolutions.

Those things are REALLY important to me (especially the ability to play divx/mpeg4 and custom resolutions) and have sold me on this player. Now to drop $250 bones on it and get it here quickly. I have only found 2 online stores that carry it. Anyone have a link to a reliable store that carries the momitsu 880dx??

The only ones that I have seen are extremephono and hkflix. I got mine from HKflix and have been happy with it.

If you get one, I hope that you will like it. I know I like mine and Ive been through ALOT of upscaling players! Its also made me order alot of disks from other regions (some are Kill Bill uncut version and Eyes Wide Shut uncut)

Personally, I wish that they would do another DVD shootout on the new DX model. I bet the score would be much better than the current V880 score.

Originally posted by igotgame
Ok..with the Momitsu..its DVI..

If I use a DVI->HDMI cable..am I going to lose any quality or cause any problems (such as green push, etc...)???

This is on a 52" Mitsu DLP keep in mind.


Rock is correct. The Mitsu DLP's digital inputs convert the signal to analog and then back to digital to display it. Not entirely sure why they do this but you may not see as much of an improvement over HDMI/DVI vs. component as you would on say a Samsung DLP.

As for the Momitsu's ability to output a Video RGB signal, I would be shocked if it couldn't. As long as you can send a Video RGB signal over DVI, you should be fine using a DVI/HDMI converter since your Mitsu is expecting Video RGB. If for some reason the Momitsu only puts out a PC RGB signal, you will have issues.

Rock I'm assuming you use DVI to DVI on your Samsung? I'm pretty sure the Samsung only accepts Video RGB, so as long as you can see BTB on DVE/Avia, then the Momitsu should work fine with an adapter.

Another choice for an upconverting DVD player if you don't need DVI or custom scaling, is the I-O Data AVel LinkPlayer2. Like the Momitsu, it is a networked player using a Sigma Designs media processor, but unlike the EM8500 in the Momitsu, it's a newer generation from Sigma, the EM8620L which additionally has on-board 12 bit 150mhz digital to analog converter, and plays native Hi-Def streams, WMV9, DivX-HD, mpeg2 1920x1080 and 1280x720, from a networked PC, or even from a burned DVD disk.

It is firmware upgradeable, but it is not region free and cannot be made region free. It has a beautiful picture quality from the component outputs, free from macro-blocking artifacts, and everything can be upconverted to 720p or 1080i...no restrictions.

I have a Panasonic RP82, rated even higher on the Secrets Benchmark than the S97, but the I-O Data beats the picture quality in most ways, probably owing to the 12 bit 150mhz DAC. The Panasonic has flawless deinterlacing due to its Faroudja DCDI, but the I-O Data is sharper, has smoother texture and tighter grain structure, and less color banding.

It's worth a look.

Originally posted by EricScott

Rock I'm assuming you use DVI to DVI on your Samsung? I'm pretty sure the Samsung only accepts Video RGB, so as long as you can see BTB on DVE/Avia, then the Momitsu should work fine with an adapter.

Actually, Im using a DVI>HDMI cable to my HDMI input....I have my dish on the DVI.

Still cant find the S97 anywhere online or in stores locally (Sears,CC,BB,Frys), anyone know what is going on with those things.

just wanted to report my experience with the Sony 975 after a week of use.

Previously i owned a bravo d2 and was using a dvi connection to my Infocus 7200 projector....i got the Sony so I could use SACD, and was going to sell the Bravo if the PQ was better on the sony (i was skeptical since i would have to use a hdmi-dvi conversion, and i had heard reports of green depression and inability to pass BTB and white crush).

I was really surprised how much better the Sony 975 looked right out of the box with no tweaking (using 720p). the picture was so much more three dimensional picture than the Bravo D2 was giving me, with slightly less digital noise and an overall smoother look.

i do notice the pixel cropping but it doesn't bother me, and i do not see any black or white crushing (i knew what that looked like after owning three different Samsung 841's).

Things look so good on my setup with the Sony that I sold the Bravo and have been rewatching my favorite dvd's, VERY happy with the purchase. if it has green depression it isn't bad enough for me to consider another player, and i'm usually very very picky about flaws like that! The first thing i usually do with dvd players is run Digital Video Essnetials, but honestly everything looks so good i am afraid to tweak it!

ps - the only issue i have is that my projector is telling the Sony (via HDMI) to lock into 720p..which is fine since that it the native resolution of thge projector, but i would like to try 480p to check the greens. no matter what i set the Sony too, it only outputs 720p.

480p is very impressive on this machine too! I love mine.

I also own a Zenith DVB-318 and I like the sony better.

yeah, i wish i could view 480p on the Sony to test the "green depression" that supposedly happens on 720/1080....but the hdmi handshake between my projector and the sony is locking the dvd player into 720p...that's the native resolution of my projector but it can certainly handle other resolutions....wish i had at least the option to change it!

Hello Everyone!
I am new at this site and thread... hope my question is not too far of topic...
In reading with great interest all of posts on this thread regarding upconverting DVD players, and I am now wondering if any of these players would yield better performance than what I am currently getting through my current setup. I currently view DVD movies through a HTPC (1.8 Ghz Pentium with 1 G Ram) I built specifically to connect to my HLN617 61" Samsung DLP HDTV. This PC is connected to the HDTV set via the PC input and the display resolution of the video card has been tweaked to match the native display resolution of the set (using Powerstrip SW), and use the CyberLink Power DVD SW player. Picture quality is pretty darn decent, but I'm wondering if a DVD player with "upscaling" capability would be even better? Again, please forgive me if this question is off topic, I am just now learning about these new DVD players and have never actually seen one in action!

FD

In theory, you are already getting the major benefits of an upscaling player -- 1:1 pixel mapping and an all-digital signal path. But there are lots of variables, including the quality of software scaling and video-card hardware.

Bottom line, you won't know until you try. However, it shouldn't be that hard to find a store that would let you hook one up to a Sammy DLP to see if you notice a difference worth the investment.

wittangamo,
Thanks for your response and suggestion... I will see if I can find a store that will let me try this! An even better comparison would be to have one simultaneously connected to my set, so that I could switch between the players (to test under the same display settings and lighting conditions)... Uhmm...maybe I will get lucky and find a store that will let me "borrow" one of these hot new DVD players to test at home!

FD

Originally posted by AnotherKingFan
Still cant find the S97 anywhere online or in stores locally (Sears,CC,BB,Frys), anyone know what is going on with those things.


Yeah, what's the deal? I'm interested in this player, but can't find it available anywhere on-line.

Also, what is the consensus on the Samsung Model DVD-HD841? It is available at Costco for $120.

the samsung 841's have severe black crush if you are using the dvi output.

There is new firmware available for the Samsung 841 which apparently reduces the black crush problem, although the player still appears to be incapable of passing Blacker than Black data.
--Bob

Okay, I have been researching enough on this forum - time to make a final decision, but would appreciate any last comments. I have on order the Sammy HLP4674. Here is my decision logic.

Personally, I suspect that I would be satified using the player in my Panasonic hard drive DVR as I wait for the HD players. However, I have decided that it is worth it for me to get the lowest price reasonable player to use either the DVI or HDMI connection.

The logical contenders are the Samsung 841 if i can find one at Costco for $120, or the Toshiba 592 Combo at Internet prices of $150 - $170. All other options seem to be over $200.

Adding the VCR in the mix is worth the extra $40 to $60 for DVR recording flexibility, particularly since the Toshiba seems to get the nod over the Samsung 841 for picture quality. So my plan is to buy the Toshiba.

last call for any other suggestions or to question the sanity of my decision.

Thanks
Mike

panasonic s97 better than both. s77 coming out this spring for about $250 list. shop around, you might be able to get for under $200.

I think it's a wise choice. The Tosh is a nice compliment to my Sammy HLP5063.

Originally posted by AnotherKingFan
Still cant find the S97 anywhere online or in stores locally (Sears,CC,BB,Frys), anyone know what is going on with those things.


Well after much searching, I finally found that Vanns (vanns.com) had them in-stock. $269.99 with free ground shipping. I went ahead and ordered it.

Is anyone here using a Panasonic S97 with Sharp LC45GX6U ?

I'm having an issue with picture quality on HDMI-HDMI connection. The picture seems washed out, missing sharpness and black levels look really grey. The same test DVD is playing perrfectly via SVideo ( I connected s97 to the Sharp's SVC box with both Svideo and HDMI inputs at the same time and have been switching between them to test picture quality). I don't understand what an I seeing... isn't HDMI supposed to be much cleaner than SVideo? I tried all possible settings on HDMI - 480i, p, 720p, 1080i with no significant difference or improvement in PQ... Adjustments on the LCD panel dodn't fix the issue either.

Has anyone else experienced something like that with this setup??, or do I have a defective s97 unit? Any suggestons are appreciated.

Thanks a bunch,
Oleg.

anybody know why the Sony 975's sales have been recalled/halted in Canada?