Originally posted by psychik
Is anyone here using a Panasonic S97 with Sharp LC45GX6U ?

I'm having an issue with picture quality on HDMI-HDMI connection. The picture seems washed out, missing sharpness and black levels look really grey. The same test DVD is playing perrfectly via SVideo ( I connected s97 to the Sharp's SVC box with both Svideo and HDMI inputs at the same time and have been switching between them to test picture quality). I don't understand what an I seeing... isn't HDMI supposed to be much cleaner than SVideo? I tried all possible settings on HDMI - 480i, p, 720p, 1080i with no significant difference or improvement in PQ... Adjustments on the LCD panel dodn't fix the issue either.

Has anyone else experienced something like that with this setup??, or do I have a defective s97 unit? Any suggestons are appreciated.

Thanks a bunch,
Oleg.

Hmm....Have you tried adjusting the S97 controls in the picture settings? They have sharpness, brightness, contrast and so on.

Maybe those were adjusted incorrectly from the factory.

Just to let you know the Sony 975 has been recalled by sony due serious design flaw. No new model-replacement is available. If you see 975 in store then this is an old flawed model and you should not buy it. If looking for sony, wait for new model or fixed model.

Just to let you know the Sony 975 has been recalled by sony due serious design flaw. No new model-replacement is available. If you see 975 in store then this is an old flawed model and you should not buy it. If looking for sony, wait for new model or fixed model.
For the previous question: Yes it has been recalled in Canada, you cannot buy it (and should not) anywhere in Canada.

Obviously Sony as usually doesn't openly publish a "press release" about recall (the player is still on web store), but they posted internal memo in Sony Stores and recalled the players where they could.
Some non-authorised resellers may not even know about recall, Sony could post recall only to the stores they deal with directly so you could still buy from few places. But it is obviously not a good idea. Wait till Sony Store gets new ones.

I wonder if it spontaneously catches on fire like the Ford F150 :)

Not fire, but it usually stop working after a week or so...

not mine. over a month and used 3-4 times a week and not one issue.

waiting and hoping.

Hi I am looking for an upconverting DVD player for my plasma with DVI. I am looking at $200-$250 price range. Any recommendations?

NeoDigigits' HVD208.
I have HVD108, quite a good unit in its price range.
http://www.neodigits.com/body/product/HVD208/feature.asp
There is a thread in this forum for 108,
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=461430

Obviously Sony as usually doesn't openly publish a "press release" about recall (the player is still on web store), but they posted internal memo in Sony Stores and recalled the players where they could.
Some non-authorised resellers may not even know about recall, Sony could post recall only to the stores they deal with directly so you could still buy from few places. But it is obviously not a good idea. Wait till Sony Store gets new ones.


Then why does the Sony online store have them in stock?

Originally posted by jportnoy
Then why does the Sony online store have them in stock?
Some people apparently tried to purchase it but at the end it didn't go. I don't know, really. My own conspiracy theory is that Sony will never openly admit that there is a serious bug in a product because a) potential custommers will run to buy S97 b) current custommers will return the player and demand new one even if the old one works for them fine so far.
It reminds me of similar problem with Sony 505 (or was it 707?) digital cameras back then. The original firmware had messed up flash yet Sony never openly admited this. Similarly they made secret pull-off and reflash firmware on stock items and also service would do this if you come to them and ask. But you will never learn anything from sony web site or sony representative about any problem or existing solution to it. This is their way. I actually wanted to buy 975 from Sony Store (30 day money back) but the manager told me sorry, he can't sell me one even if he had them in stock, untill a new fixed ones come in. ( I actually plan to buy one once new ones are back)

I bought a sony 975 had it for a week I could tell no difference in picture quality between 480p/720p/1080i. I returned it for a Denon 2910 the difference if picture quality is unbelievable, it is worth the extra money. I am running it on a Sony 60xs955

I bought a sony 975 had it for a week I could tell no difference in picture quality between 480p/720p/1080i. I returned it for a Denon 2910 the difference if picture quality is unbelievable, it is worth the extra money. I am running it on a Sony 60xs955

your doing something wrong dude. cause its very noticeable.

I know the Denon 2910 has an issue with 4:3 material at 720p / 1080i - it stretches rather than allowing for pillar boxing.

Do the Panny S97 or the Sony 975 have a similar issue, or can they be configured to pillarbox?

This is important to me since my Pio plasma can't do a 4:3 display mode for HD resolutions.

Thanks,

-kdb

Some of my favorite movies are oldies in 4:3 OAR. But I wonder how much improvement in their resolution you get when upconverted to 720p or 1080i. Do any DVD players upconvert these movies and still present them in 4:3? Is PQ of the upconverted image markedly better than 480p?

In most cases, that's a function of the TV set expecting a 16:9 image over an HDMI or DVI connection.

The first two generations of Samsung DLPs, for instance, couldn't change the aspect ratio from digital inputs and the result was stretched 4:3. After enough owners complained, they fixed it in the current models, and my HLP5063 can switch back and forth between 4:3 and 16:9 while preserving the advantages of an all-digital 720p upconvert.

Originally posted by RockStrongo
Again, as stated, the momitsu is not a pretty player, but is region free, macrovision free, upconverts with component (which you probably wont need), PAL to NTSC converter, plays DIVX/MPEG4 and has custom resolutions.

It will also do pillarboxing of 4:3 material, which is handy for 16:9 TVs that won't pillarbox at ED/HD resolutions.

The only problem I've had with my Momitsu DX is that occasionally, right after a scene change, there is a band of "tearing" across the screen, which usually corrects itself in half a second or so. This never seems to happen with the movie itself (whether widescreen or 4:3), but sometimes happens on "extra" material that is in 4:3 letterbox.

Originally posted by kdb209
I know the Denon 2910 has an issue with 4:3 material at 720p / 1080i - it stretches rather than allowing for pillar boxing.

Do the Panny S97 or the Sony 975 have a similar issue, or can they be configured to pillarbox?

This is important to me since my Pio plasma can't do a 4:3 display mode for HD resolutions.

Thanks,

-kdb

I hate to quote myself, but I have another question vis a vis the Denon / Sanny / Sony.

Looking at the Panasonic S97 manual (pdf at onecall) it's not clear if you can get audio out on both the HDMI and digital out (optical or coax) at the same time. Ideally I'd like to feed the HDMI audio direct to the TV, so the wife can watch DVDs just turning on the TV and DVD player, and also send digital audio to the A/V receiver for DD 5.1 if I want (and mute the TV).

Does anyone know if this can be done (without having to muck with menus each time)?
Can this be done on the Denon or Sony?

Also, if anyone can give me the definitive answer on pillar boxing on the Panny and Sony, it would be appreciated.

Thanks,
-kdb

I got PMs for adding the Zensonic and upcoming NeuNeo players. Will add those tomorrow. Thanks for sending me the info

KDB209,

I have the same question with my DVD (HDMI) and 5.1. The receiver allows Dolby 5.1 in RAW (bitstream) but the TV speakers are inoperative.
PCM allows TV speakers but only ProLogic. When the DVD is connected via component, the TV speakers work in RAW. Any suggestions to have the TV speakers enabled with the HDMI connection (DVD RAW)? Thanks.

All these talks about green depression, can you tune it out with DVE or adjust the color temperture etc etc etc.... ?????

Have you seen the new nueneo player that does 1080P for $195 - sounds too good to be true?

Originally posted by dokworm
Have you seen the new nueneo player that does 1080P for $195 - sounds too good to be true?

Sorry, DW, to be the bearer of bad news, but it is too good to be true...

http://www.hometheaterblog.com/hometheater/2004/08/neuneo_high_def_1.html

Any further words about the Panny S97 and Sammy 941 players; i.e., availability, reliability, firmware updates, etc.

craig: Heard that Panny was available was onecall and/or JR. Check them out. I have had good experience with JR. Unless you're very sure, I would not recommend Sammy since I've seen more negatives than positives.

Mallu2u, thanks for the update and for the warning on the S97. I've been following this thread along with a couple of others and I essentially agree with your assessment. Unless Panny has upgraded their firmware very recently for the S97, I would probably not go with it. Instead either hold out for the S77. But, I'm currently "still" leaning in the direction of the 941. It would go nicely with my HLM507 DLP.

Also, I may very well be in error about the Nueneo, too. Apparently, the link I gave was for an "old" article. Nueneo may very well be coming out with a 1080p.

I have a Bravo D1. I am very happy with it's PQ. It is temperamental to boot up.
Target is selling the Bravo D2 for $200 on its website.
I understand that Denon has a new model 755s that upconverts. I did not see this on the master list. I have seen it on sale for $200.

Originally posted by kdb209
I hate to quote myself, but I have another question vis a vis the Denon / Sanny / Sony.

Looking at the Panasonic S97 manual (pdf at onecall) it's not clear if you can get audio out on both the HDMI and digital out (optical or coax) at the same time. Ideally I'd like to feed the HDMI audio direct to the TV, so the wife can watch DVDs just turning on the TV and DVD player, and also send digital audio to the A/V receiver for DD 5.1 if I want (and mute the TV).

Does anyone know if this can be done (without having to muck with menus each time)?
Can this be done on the Denon or Sony?

Also, if anyone can give me the definitive answer on pillar boxing on the Panny and Sony, it would be appreciated.

Thanks,
-kdb

I went ahead and got the S97 from onecall and got a pleasant surprise.

Reading the manual it says that in order to get multi-channel sound out of the digital coax or TOSlink, you need to set the HDMI audio to off. It turns out that the S97 is outputting 5.1 on the digital coax, even when the HDMI audio is on. So the wife can play a DVD just by turning on the TV and DVD player, and I can crank up the surround by muting the TV and turning on the A/V receiver, without having to muck with the S97 menus each time.

Originally posted by Flight level
KDB209,

I have the same question with my DVD (HDMI) and 5.1. The receiver allows Dolby 5.1 in RAW (bitstream) but the TV speakers are inoperative.
PCM allows TV speakers but only ProLogic. When the DVD is connected via component, the TV speakers work in RAW. Any suggestions to have the TV speakers enabled with the HDMI connection (DVD RAW)? Thanks.

I got the S97, and if I set the HDMI audio to on, I get both audio to the TV via the HDMI and 5.1 audio (bitstream) to my A/V receiver via digital coax.

Originally posted by Al Fletcher
I have a Bravo D1. I am very happy with it's PQ. It is temperamental to boot up.
Target is selling the Bravo D2 for $200 on its website.
I understand that Denon has a new model 755s that upconverts. I did not see this on the master list. I have seen it on sale for $200.

The Bravo D1 loader problems can be fixed by replacing the stock Fuss Audio loader with a standard computer IDE internal DVD-ROM. That's what I did and it is works like a champ now. Here's the thread that shows you how to do it, with pictures and everything (it's easy):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=284831&highlight=bravo+loader


Also, the D1 power supply has a capacitor that tends to fail after a year or two. V Inc. will fix the power supply board for $40 (don't send them the whole unit, just the board). These two fixes (the loader swap and the power supply board repair) cost far less than investing in a new Bravo D2, or any other upscaling player for that matter.

I tried a Denon 1910 (755 is the same unit in silver), and the Zenith 318. My Bravo D1 has a much better picture over DVI, no contest. Plus, it plays back 4:3 and non-anamorphic widescreen DVD's perfectly, something the Denon and Zenith can't do.

Originally posted by Craig 2
Sorry, DW, to be the bearer of bad news, but it is too good to be true...


Might want to read the question again before replying with an incorrect response...the question had to do with the NEW NeuNeo player (model 208)...you gave him a link to a review that had to do with the model 108...and not only that, the review was prior to the firmware updates...there are a couple reviews out there of model 208 and they are quite good...I purchased one of these a couple days ago and will report back once I've got it up and running. You guys just need to be careful when giving responses...make sure your response is not concerning the wrong product...you also might want to make sure it is a current review.

Originally posted by gshelley61
Also, the D1 power supply has a capacitor that tends to fail after a year or two. V Inc. will fix the power supply board for $40 (don't send them the whole unit, just the board). These two fixes (the loader swap and the power supply board repair) cost far less than investing in a new Bravo D2, or any other upscaling player for that matter.

Any more info you might have on that board and its capacitor would be welcome. I'm not sure I trust V Inc. to get back to me and I hate having to send stuff out for repair when I can get it done locally. If this is something I or one of my trusted electronics repair shops can fix, that would be better.

Thanks,

JW

Jim Noyd checks in on this forum frequently. He represents V,Inc. You might pm him.

Originally posted by jwbarney
Any more info you might have on that board and its capacitor would be welcome. I'm not sure I trust V Inc. to get back to me and I hate having to send stuff out for repair when I can get it done locally. If this is something I or one of my trusted electronics repair shops can fix, that would be better.

Thanks,

JW

I emailed their tech support, they sent me an RMA and I had it back from them in less than two weeks after I shipped it to them. They were pretty responsive overall.

Don't the engineers at the various manufacturers ever read their product reviews from the guys at Secrets? It would seem that SOMEBODY should be able to come out with at least one model that has all the flaws that are found by Secrets during their tests. This is ridiculous. I can just imagine what a mess the next generation (true high definition) players are going to be.

I think the problem is that consumers want exceptionally high quality electronics with all the latest features... for very little money. Marketers, engineers and manufacturers work together to produce low cost, high tech goods to people all over the globe, but compromises have to made along the way to allow for retail prices that will be attractive to consumers and still profitable for the company. Remember there is not that much numerical demand for items like upscaling DVD players with digital video outputs, either. It's still an "early adopter" product at this point.

Originally posted by gshelley61


Also, the D1 power supply has a capacitor that tends to fail after a year or two. V Inc. will fix the power supply board for $40 (don't send them the whole unit, just the board). These two fixes (the loader swap and the power supply board repair) cost far less than investing in a new Bravo D2, or any other upscaling player for that matter.

I tried a Denon 1910 (755 is the same unit in silver), and the Zenith 318. My Bravo D1 has a much better picture over DVI, no contest. Plus, it plays back 4:3 and non-anamorphic widescreen DVD's perfectly, something the Denon and Zenith can't do.

What a waste of time and money to get a crap DVD player to work. Someone reccommended this player to me and I trusted the guy and got one. I had a Bravo D1 for all of about 1 week before it went back in the box. Only afterwards did i google this thing and find out that so many people have problems with this garbage

I finally got smart and got a Zenith 318 which blows the Bravo out of the water. I don't know what contest you entered to say that the the Bravo DVI has a much better picture. Hard to have a better picture when the movie won't even load.

Originally posted by mhock5
Might want to read the question again before replying with an incorrect response...the question had to do with the NEW NeuNeo player (model 208)...you gave him a link to a review that had to do with the model 108...and not only that, the review was prior to the firmware updates...there are a couple reviews out there of model 208 and they are quite good...I purchased one of these a couple days ago and will report back once I've got it up and running. You guys just need to be careful when giving responses...make sure your response is not concerning the wrong product...you also might want to make sure it is a current review.

MH5.

Yeah, rgr that! Fact is, if you had read my second post two spots down from my original, you would have read that I caught my error already and admitted to it. Gee, but it was thoughtful of you to rub my nose in it anyway. Oh well...movin' along.

Cheers...

Craig 2,

You can go back and edit your original post. I can't tell you how many times I've posted and reread what I wrote and said "wow, I don't want to say that!"

mhock5,

I just ordered one today, along with the Flying Daggers dvd, for demo. I reviewed the specs for the #308 and they are totally unsuitable for my purpose. I am using the Sony HS-51 projector.

I will be pleased to post my result and hope to read yours soon.

Steve

Hi mallu2u,

If you're still updating your table at the beginning this thread, the best price I'm aware of for the Onkyo DV-SP1000 is from Vann's for $1699.

Thanks!

To be frank, I have been lacking in the past 2 weeks due to extremely heavy work load. But yes, I am still updating. Do u have any new players you want me to add to the list?

Originally posted by Craig 2
Mallu2u, thanks for the update and for the warning on the S97. I've been following this thread along with a couple of others and I essentially agree with your assessment. Unless Panny has upgraded their firmware very recently for the S97, I would probably not go with it. Instead either hold out for the S77. But, I'm currently "still" leaning in the direction of the 941. It would go nicely with my HLM507 DLP.

Also, I may very well be in error about the Nueneo, too. Apparently, the link I gave was for an "old" article. Nueneo may very well be coming out with a 1080p.

Craig: Actually I warned against Sammy & not Panny! Panny is way way better than Sammy in my opinion. Infact I bought it as well. And yes, there have been two firmware upgrades since last december that have really helped make this player even better.

I'd appreciate some advice here. I have a new Sony KDF-50WE655 RP LCD TV. I want to get a nice DVD player that won't break the bank but will provide me with great quality (hopefully upconverting). Price-range should be ~$300 or less. I might consider paying more, but I'd have to have a *really* good reason to do so and would prefer not.

I actually had decided and went for the Toshiba combo unit (SD-592V I believe). VCR/DVD with upconverting. Unfortunately, a few issues with it are making me think it's not a great choice for me (which shouldn't be a problem if that's what I decide). Its remote interferes with another piece of hardware (Wave Radio) slightly, the HDMI is causing some subtle background noises with my television speakers, and it's not always displaying the DVD properly on its own (I have to use Zoom on the television - perhaps this is normal though). Playback looks nice, but these little issues and incompatibilities are bugging me.

DVD Players I'm considering:

- Sony DVP-NS975V
- Denon DVD-1910

The problem with the Sony is that it has known issues (the disc tray locking; the system just shutting down; etc.). I think this has been addressed with firmware and possibly a hardware change, but I don't know (and can't get a straight answer) if new ones have this implemented, and it's going to be a major hassle getting one just to send it to get it "repaired." If anyone knows a place to get a "fixed" version, I'd appreciate it. This would actually be my preference since I'd think a Sony DVD player would work great with a Sony TV. lol.

Regarding the Denon, I've heard very good things, but I know very little about the brand, and I also heard Denons have flicker issues with Sony TV's.

So I guess I'm asking: Should I stick with what I have and the problems I'm experiencing, which appear unsolvable even if they are fairly minor? Or should I buy the Sony and hope I get a good one/repair it? Or should I go for the Denon and hope I don't have any issues? Or is there a better alternative out there?

Any help, clarification, other suggestions, or ideas would certainly be appreciated. Thanks. =o)

sgupta - save yourself the trouble and get a Panasonic S97. With the latest firmware updates to correct macroblocking, it is quickly becoming by far the most bang for your buck for sub $300 players.

And it include a decent HDMI cable so if you bought one and are planning to return the Toshiba, I'd return the cable as well.

Hmmmm. Well I do like Panasonic. I'll consider that one - thanks for the tip; I'll look into it. =o) Regarding the firmware, is that something user doable (like with a CD burner), or do you have to have the factory do it? Thanks. (And still of course interested in hearing other opinions.)

One other thing. Do you really think an upconverting DVD player can do a BETTER job than the Sony TV (KDF-50WE655)? I know from reading that it's converted either way...either by the TV or by the DVD Player. If the DVD player can really do a better job, it might be worth it. One thing I noticed though - there are more options (such as DRC and BN, etc.) for the non-HDMI inputs, and you can tweak a lot more. Sometimes I wonder if a progressive player wouldn't do just as well, but I guess that's why I'm asking. =oP

The reason why an upscaling player is ideal is b/c it maintains the digital signal from DVD to display over HDMI. When you use component, the DVD player converts from digital to analog and the display must convert from analog back to digital to display the image - that's 2 conversions vs. zero. If you think the TV will do a better job of scaling you can always output 480p over HDMI. But I find that outputting the native resolution of your display looks even better.

As for the picture settings and tweakability, one of the really nice things about the S97 is that it has a full set of picture settings which are fully adjustable over HDMI. I find that the controls on the s97 are more sensitive than those on my display so they allow you to better fine tune the player. In general the S97 has a ton of features, more than just about any other player out there.

The firmware is user upgradeable with a CD burner as you guessed. There is a thread here (when you are ready) that has a link to the two newer firmware versions (536 and 540) and all you do is burn it to CD, pop it in the player and let it do it's thing.

Check out these two threads for a LOT of information:

Braindump Thread (the first post is especially helpful):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=463025

Firmware Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=501352&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

Can anyone recommend a reliable online retailer that sells the Panasonic S97? Would a B&M retailer like Tweeter stock it?

Try OneCall, About Electronics and Vanns. They all had the s97 at one point or another for reasonable prices. I got mine at OneCall and was very pleased with the price and service.

ABT Electronics was the last retailer I heard had it in stock.

Thanks for the great responses! I'll check it out in those threads. =o)

I have owned several upscailing players. Momitsu, Zenith, Samsung, & Panasonic 97S. The Panasonic 97S is the best player I have ever owned. It has been made even better with the new firmware updates. It plays anything I put in in including home recorded + & - disks. No skipping, fast layer change and a great picture with few problems and a great build. Get it while you can.

I would check with J&R and once.com. They seem to get these players. I bought from J&R and really liked the service

Originally posted by mallu2u
I would check with J&R and once.com. They seem to get these players. I bought from J&R and really liked the service

I would also recommend Onecall for good service. Got my Panasonic S97 from them and was completely happy (especially since my sale price was 10% less than their current price).

I will admit, though the J & R price is a bit better currently.

I may be late to the game with this question, but I just bought a Samsung DVD HD841 from Costco (total impulse buy, but the price was right). I have a Samsung HLN507W TV and since both are manufactured by the same company I assumed things would work well together.
And they do, compared to the DVD player I had before (a Coby, don't ask) the picture is much better and using the DVI port is nice. The problem I have is that over DVI only the 1080i resolution works well, all of the other resolutions seem to be offset and do not fill the screen, even the 720p resolution, which I thought I was supposed to use with this TV. I calibrated as best as I could with DVE and noticed that while the player does not pass BTB, the black levels are still pretty good.
I will probably keep the player because it has the high resolution audio as well (haven't tried any of that yet, need cables and music) and the price was right, but I'm still curious as to why the certain DVI resolutions do not work correctly. I think I have the latest firmware because I had no trouble setting up the player over DVI and the player remembers my settings with power off. Well, hopefully someone has an answer or suggestion for me. Thanks.

Andy

Samsung HLN507W
DENON AVR 3801
B&W 602s2
B&W CC3
B&W 301
Velodyne CT80
Samsung DVD HD841
SONY SVR-2000 Tivo

Andy, set the 841 to output 720p over DVI. The Sammy TV has a native resolution of 720p. With the TV on the DVI input, go into the picture settings and select wide. You also need to make sure the 841 is set to wide. I have about the same setup (I have the 617W) and it looks great. You don't want to input the DVD signal at 1080i because the TV will have to rescale that to 720p anyway.

I may be a little off on the exact menu names to set everything to wide because I'm at work right now, so play with it a little until it gets right usin 720p.

Well, with the DVI input on this TV it defaults to Wide and isn't able to change it to anything else (it expects a widescreen signal) I think I have everything set up correctly, it just looks like things are not centered. I guess I could go into the service menu and adjust the x and y positioning, but I don't want to screw other inputs up. Maybe I'll try and post some pictures. Thanks for the quick reply.

Andy

That is a strange problem then. I assume all other video signals are centered OK? Something could be out of alignment.

Andy, Try this:
I have a Samsung HLN507W TV. Make sure you use the TV remote. The first menu is the "Picture" menu, under "Scaling" change the setting from "Wide (PC)" to "Wide (TV)". This will make the raster go full screen on DVI input in 720p mode. (At least it does this with my Samsung Desktop Receiver.)

how does the panasonic s97 handle the scaling of non-anamorphic widescreen material over a dvi connection?

I'll try that, but I think it may have been grayed out for the DVI input, but I'll see when I get home.

Andy

So I tried the aspect button and felt a little dumb.Before, I was trying things in 1080i, which only allows wide mode. I forgot that the TV treats different resolutions differently with respect to the aspect ratio. So, yes, changing from Wide(PC) to Wide(TV) did the trick at the lower resolutions. I'm not really sure if there is a big dfference between 720p and 1080i, but 720p looks a lottle bit sharper, so I'll stick with that mode. I have noticed some stutter in the video sometimes, but many of the movies I watch are from Netflix, so they probably have a lot more wear and tear than privatly owned DVDs. Thanks for all the help.

Andy

I just bought a Samsung HL-P4663W DLP and was just wondering if anyone has this TV and what upscaling player they use. i bought the HD841 and am not impressed. Thanks for the help.

I have the HD841 connected to my HLN617W and am happy with it despite it not being able to pass blacker than black. But for the money the 841 isn't too bad of a deal.

A lot of people seem to like the Panasonic s97 with firmware updates, but that one is around $300 or so. I have looked into that one myself and may consider trying it out.

thanks for the info

mjwhitay,
I have a HLN507W Samsung DLP. I have a Bravo D1 DVD Player. It has a beautiful picture upconverted picture. I understand that the new model Bravo D2 is available from Target's website for $200. It did not come with a DVI cord.

nice, I might have to check that out

Originally posted by mjwhitay
I just bought a Samsung HL-P4663W DLP and was just wondering if anyone has this TV and what upscaling player they use. i bought the HD841 and am not impressed. Thanks for the help.


I also have the 4663 Sammy and purchased the NeuNeo 208 that upconverts via component cables. I've had it for 3 weeks now and am very pleased with it. It clearly has better PQ than my Sony progressive player. Plus, the audio is better than I expected. You can get them at neodigits.com if you are interested.

Which would be the best upscaling DVD player over DVI/HDMI to go with a PE8700+? Now I have a LG7832NXC (DVB318) and I do not like it. It suffers from macro bloking and it reacted very badly to the DVD of bad quality.
And I do not want to pay 1000$ for a player with the nearest arrival of true DVD-HD.

Bravo Dx? Panasonic S97? Oppo? Momitsu?

Thanks !

are 4-8 weeks from delivery...

I've been using a Bravo D1 with my Samsung 46" DLP and it looks fantastic. Of course, I've had to bring the D1 back to life by having the power supply repaired and replacing the loader with a computer IDE DVD-ROM... but it's hard to beat the picture quality the Bravo and the Samsung DLP deliver.

I just returned my LG418...worked okay for about 2 weeks, then it seemed like every 'backup' DVD I threw at it skipped...using DVD +Rs, which reminds me...should I buy -R's going forward? It seems many players play only -Rs and few play +Rs, which is why I went with the LG (just bought (2) 100+R stacks) :)

I forked over enough money for the HDMI cable, so I am looking for a replacement that supports HDMI and +Rs...the picture was decent on the LG, but not even close to HD...noticed no difference between 1080i and 720 to the nakes eye..

Any new players about to hit the market that fits my needs? The Samsung 941 is really hard to find, if at all, but I think it plays +Rs and I know it supports HDMI...any ideas?

Hey guys, I'm also in the market for an upsampling DVD player and and wanted to get some input.

I have a Sharp LCD26GA5 HDTV that can do 720P and 1080i via DVI, HDMI or component video hookups. I connected my low end progressive scan Toshiba DVD player to it via component and was not excited at all about the P.Q.

Is the improvement of an upsampling player extremely noticeable even on a smaller size screen like the one I own? I have a Denon 1600 on the large 52" Hitachi in my den and the PQ is quite good on it, but I haven't gone through the hell of taking out the 1600 to try on the Sharp LCD set.

I really don't want to spend $300 on a DVD player when I expect BR or HD-DVD players will be available within 18 months.

I have a coupon and can get the Sammy 841 for $140 shipped from buy.com right now, how good is that player compared to a standard definition progressive scan unit?

Originally posted by terp
should I buy -R's going forward? It seems many players play only -Rs and few play +Rs, which is why I went with the LG (just bought (2) 100+R stacks)I haven't run into any players that won't play my +Rs, but I have found that the +RW re-recordables don't play on older decks. The new players, even the real cheapos, seem to play +R & +RW fine.

My Panasonic DMR-E80H DVD recorder will not play DVD+R's unless the book type has been changed to "DVD-ROM" through bitsetting.

Originally posted by jmpage2
Hey guys, I'm also in the market for an upsampling DVD player and and wanted to get some input.

I have a Sharp LCD26GA5 HDTV that can do 720P and 1080i via DVI, HDMI or component video hookups. I connected my low end progressive scan Toshiba DVD player to it via component and was not excited at all about the P.Q.

Is the improvement of an upsampling player extremely noticeable even on a smaller size screen like the one I own? I have a Denon 1600 on the large 52" Hitachi in my den and the PQ is quite good on it, but I haven't gone through the hell of taking out the 1600 to try on the Sharp LCD set.

I really don't want to spend $300 on a DVD player when I expect BR or HD-DVD players will be available within 18 months.

I have a coupon and can get the Sammy 841 for $140 shipped from buy.com right now, how good is that player compared to a standard definition progressive scan unit?

First things first. Costco out here (SoCal) was selling the Sammy 841 for $99.00. No Kidding. AVS member Georgelouis bought two. It's a decent player and it's universal!

Upscaling IS noticeable. More so on better displays. But, you are still working with only 480 lines of resolution, so don't expect miracles.

To date I have auditioned 5 upscaling players:
Momitsu V880
Sammy 931
Sammy 841
LG DVB418( a Zenith DVB318 clone)
and the NeuNeo HVD208

Hands down, of those five, the NeuNeo wins the day.

Best wishes and good hunting.

CMRA,

I also have the Sammy 841 from Costco and the NeuNeo 208 and agree that the NeuNeo image quality is far better. My issue is with the color temp and hue adjustments when feed to my Sony HS-51. I have posted my problem on the "have NuNeo 208" thread, and with Roy at NeuNeo, but to date cannot get the picture dead on. All other source inputs look great with 50% settings on color, brightness and hue. With the NeuNeo I have to work at the extreme high end of the hue and use other color temps to get a close to enjoyable image.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Steve

Originally posted by jmpage2
Hey guys, I'm also in the market for an upsampling DVD player and and wanted to get some input.

I have a Sharp LCD26GA5 HDTV that can do 720P and 1080i via DVI, HDMI or component video hookups. I connected my low end progressive scan Toshiba DVD player to it via component and was not excited at all about the P.Q.

Is the improvement of an upsampling player extremely noticeable even on a smaller size screen like the one I own? I have a Denon 1600 on the large 52" Hitachi in my den and the PQ is quite good on it, but I haven't gone through the hell of taking out the 1600 to try on the Sharp LCD set.

I really don't want to spend $300 on a DVD player when I expect BR or HD-DVD players will be available within 18 months.

I have a coupon and can get the Sammy 841 for $140 shipped from buy.com right now, how good is that player compared to a standard definition progressive scan unit?

I purchased the HD841 from BB for about half that price you were quoted at buy.com. I would recommend shopping around a bit if you still want an HD841.

My impressions of the HD841 have soured the longer I have fiddled with it. The unit seems to put out a pretty decent 480p image over component cables (it only passes BTB via component for some reason), but when I have switched to DVI for 480p/720p/768p/1080i I have NOT seen any great improvement in quality. I will qualify that by stating I am using an InFocus 4805 projector for display, and its native resolution is only 854x480, though it can display scaled 720p/768p and 1080i images.

The upconverted DVD image is indistinquishable to my eyes versus the same scenes fed either 480p over components on the Samsung (with poorer color detail and saturation) and it is actually not as good as the 480p image I can generate from my Denon DVM-1815 non-upconverting player.

Some folks with higher native resolution player swear they see a big difference in quality from one resolution to another on their displays. I do not see it on mine, even though I have seen HDTV done on the lower-resoltuion of my WVGA projector extremely well. My projector can put out an HDTV image that is virtually indistinquishable from HDTV on my CRT-RPTV at 2.5X screen width seating, so I know the projector is possibly part of the reason I do not see great quality increases on upconversion, but it is NOT the sole reason.

I do not believe the Samsung HD841 is worth $150 and I am actually considering returning mine even though I paid less than $90 for it. I won't be using it as my main DVD player because it cannot match the picture quality of my Denon, but I may hold on to it for use as a DVD-audio and SACD player. As a low cost universal audio player that can put out DVD images ina pinch I would hesitantly recommend it, but as a main player, expectign great leaps in picture quality for DVD viewing, I would caution against getting it ans would NOT recommend spending anything more than $100 for it.

Originally posted by moostache2
I purchased the HD841 from BB for about half that price you were quoted at buy.com. I would recommend shopping around a bit if you still want an HD841.

My impressions of the HD841 have soured the longer I have fiddled with it. The unit seems to put out a pretty decent 480p image over component cables (it only passes BTB via component for some reason), but when I have switched to DVI for 480p/720p/768p/1080i I have NOT seen any great improvement in quality. I will qualify that by stating I am using an InFocus 4805 projector for display, and its native resolution is only 854x480, though it can display scaled 720p/768p and 1080i images.

The upconverted DVD image is indistinquishable to my eyes versus the same scenes fed either 480p over components on the Samsung (with poorer color detail and saturation) and it is actually not as good as the 480p image I can generate from my Denon DVM-1815 non-upconverting player.

Some folks with higher native resolution player swear they see a big difference in quality from one resolution to another on their displays. I do not see it on mine, even though I have seen HDTV done on the lower-resoltuion of my WVGA projector extremely well. My projector can put out an HDTV image that is virtually indistinquishable from HDTV on my CRT-RPTV at 2.5X screen width seating, so I know the projector is possibly part of the reason I do not see great quality increases on upconversion, but it is NOT the sole reason.

I do not believe the Samsung HD841 is worth $150 and I am actually considering returning mine even though I paid less than $90 for it. I won't be using it as my main DVD player because it cannot match the picture quality of my Denon, but I may hold on to it for use as a DVD-audio and SACD player. As a low cost universal audio player that can put out DVD images ina pinch I would hesitantly recommend it, but as a main player, expectign great leaps in picture quality for DVD viewing, I would caution against getting it ans would NOT recommend spending anything more than $100 for it.

That's sort of the issue I am having with this whole thing, some folks swear they see a huge difference in PQ, others don't see any improvement. I would be looking for a pretty noticeable improvement if I was going to shell out $200 plus for something like the Panny S97 which everyone here raves about.

If I could find a local shop that stocked the S97 I might give it a whirl as I could return it if it did not please, but so far I haven't found any major chains carrying it.

does anyone have any buzz info on the new samsungs? the 850 and 950?

http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_subtype.jsp?eUser=&prod_path=%2fAudio+and+Video%2fDVD+Player%2fHi-Def+Conversion+DVD+Players

Just ordered a Sammy DLP (HL-R5067W) and am looking for a DVD upconverter player.

In theory, I would have liked to go with a DVD player from the same manufacturer as my TV, but I have found that a number of folks are frustrated / disappointed with the Sammy DVD players (e.g. 841 etc.).

Hoping I can learn from other's experience and find the best (i.e. highest quality picture for the money spent) player to go with this model TV.

Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated!

Did not know about new Sammys. Will update the thread with that info. Exciting!

DVD players(and electronics in general) look so much better in smokey black. I hate silver. When my warranty expires on momitsu, i'm spray painting the damn thing black

Many engineers from some high quality video manufacturing companies have REALLY been trying to show and speak to people in the buisness about the fact that , in the case of fixed pixels displays, usually the processors in the display do a better job with lower res (even often suggested 480i) feeds ...the notion that the artifacting created by so much cross processing and up and down scaling/processing etc, is a bad idea has been gaining momentum when these guys get to show you what is happening with different hook-ups and settings.
I had a rep for Runco say to a customer , "do you know what happens when our processor sees a 480 line image ? It Displays it as it's native resolution which is higher than 480 ...what would you call that process being performed by our video processor?".....the customer said "upconversion?"and the rep said "do you think the runco processor in your $15,000 projector is going to do a better or worse job than the $200 samsung?"

Upconverting DVD recommendations needed. I recently upgraded my HDTV to new Panasonic LCD with an HDMI input, and I'd like to also upgrade my DVD player to an upconverting one with HDMI, for less than $300, if I can. I started out thinking about buying the Samsung HD941 and I was discouraged by all the reliablity problems I've read about. From reading this and other forums, I've sort of narrowed it down to the Panny S97S, Sony NS975 maybe the Toshiba SD5970, but I'd like to hear opinions and other recommendations. I like what I read about the Panny, except for the problems that require the firmware upgrade. I don't know if I want to mess around with that, or go for it and hope I get a recent built model with the latest firmware. I've also read of some problems with the Sony NS975. I think Perfect Vision was not too hot on the Toshiba either, but as I recall they liked the Sony. What do you guys think? Isn't there a decent and reliable upconverting DVD player with HDMI out there?

BTW, what is "macroblokcing"? Thanks.

Just saw the Sammy 850 at Best Buy in NYC. It cost $150. Doesn't do SACD or DVD Audio but has HDMI output. Doesn't say anything about Faroudja DCDi.

The manual on Samsung's site clearly shows a setup option to set PC or Video black levels so you would assume this player will pass BTB assuming you set it up properly.

The pics of the 950 look pretty sick. Black w/ a white LED display. Also doesn't say anything about DCDi. Maybe Samsung abandoned DCDi in their DVD players rather than attempting to deal with the macroblocking problems like Panasonic has.

Originally posted by tweeterex
Many engineers from some high quality video manufacturing companies have REALLY been trying to show and speak to people in the buisness about the fact that , in the case of fixed pixels displays, usually the processors in the display do a better job with lower res (even often suggested 480i) feeds ...the notion that the artifacting created by so much cross processing and up and down scaling/processing etc, is a bad idea has been gaining momentum when these guys get to show you what is happening with different settings.
I had a rep for Runco say to a customer , "do you know what happens when our processor sees a 480 line image ? It Displays it as it's native resolution which is higher than 480 ...what would you call that process being performed by our video processor?".....the customer said "upconversion?"and the rep said "do you think the runco processor in your $15,000 projector is going to do a better or worse job than the $200 samsung?"

I'm starting to think this way myself.
I've never understood how you can take, say 480i, scale it up to 1080i and call it hi-def. At the end of the day you still have an image with 480 lines of information. Nothing is added to what is already there, except maybe a slightly sharper image.
I've already owned three upscaling players. I've never been able to tell the difference between the upscaled and standard image.
It reminds me of the story "The Emperors New Clothes". I keep telling myself there must be a difference, but I can't see it. Maybe the reason I can't see it, is because it isn't there!

About a year and a half ago, there was an extensive thread on the AVSforum regarding a "shootout" between the Bravo D1 player and a Samsung Upconvert Player. At that time, it was determined that the picture quality of the Bravo D1 surpassed that of the Samsung. One of the reasons was the Black Level. As a result of reading this thread, I bought the Bravo D1. I have been very pleased with the picture. It is fantastic on DVI. Although I understand that it is mediocre when connected via component cables. Conversely, I see that Audio Visual Magazine in the March issue has rated the Samsung 841 as one of the best progressive scan players out there, but mediocre in its DVI performance.
If anyone can place a shortcut on this site to the "Shootout between the Bravo and the Samsung", I believe that the current readers would be fascinated. I also believe that some readers may do what I did and buy the Bravo for its superb picture quality. It appears that Samsung has never gotten its act together on its DVI ouput and the reviews that I have read about the new 941 are not any better than the 841 as far as PQ. I know that I have said this before on this site--but I bought an 841 and immediately returned it when I saw how poorly the picture compared to the Bravo D1. I presume that the Bravo D2 would have as good a picture quality as the D1 and if my Bravo D1 drops dead, I intend to get a Bravo D2 unless I see some very positive results about another Upconvert DVD player in the $200 price range.

Is the Bravo D2 available yet? Nevermind, I see it on Target.com. I don't suppose they carry it in the stores. I just wish it had HDMI, so that I don't have to mess with the converter cable.

The big advantage upscaling DVD players have over display upconversion processors is simple... it all happens in the digital domain within the player, then the scaled image is sent to the display digitally over the DVI or HDMI cable. This results in a really sharp and detailed picture in the case of fixed pixel displays and projectors (if the player can pixel map 1:1 to match the display resolution). CRT based displays and projectors don't show much of a difference using this technology, however.

In the case of analog 480i signals being upconverted by the display or projector, first the video processor must deinterlace the analog signal, then scale it. The results can be very good, but can't compete with the better upscaling DVD players with digital video output.

(if the player can pixel map 1:1 to match the display resolution)

ALSO . IF the display STILL doesn't send it through the it's own processor.

I have an older mitsubishi rptv with no digital inputs (no hdmi or dvi). I am using a very finicky panasonic rp 91 and it should be replaced (the compoent outs work only occasionally!) I am wondering if the upscaling dvd players (via component) such as the momitsu are really going to be a step up from just buying a denon 2910 or such that has good quality 480p. The one thing the mitsubishi does well is get good HDtv over the air and via dish.

In my home office I have a panasonic plasma with a denon 3910 and can use an hdmi cable and the picture is great, so I do see the difference on this much newer monitor.

My mitsubishi rptv is about 4 to 5 years old and was a top of the line 60 inch when purchased, but it has aged and the picture is noticably darker than it was years ago.

Is the Momitsu the only available upscaling machine now being sold with component out?

Your thoughts are much appreciated.

Hi stereopath,
I have a first gen mits (73903). You don't say, but if your model is an XXX03, then you only have one HD input (rgbhv). All of the other component inputs are only 480i (unless you've modified the SM to allow 480p via all of the component inputs).

The internal scaler of these sets (at least my model) is pretty bad. You will definitely benefit from upconversion. Since you don't need custom scan rates (your HD is 1080i), and you want upconverted component, I'd say get the zenith 318. I've got one feeding my set and it works great. Be forewarned though that you'll need a $300 transcoder to convert the component output to vga (look at keydigital.com) and then a break-out cable to re-cable vga to rgbhv (bnc connectors).

Another option would be to look for an upconverting player that outputs upconverted vga directly. The momitsu does not. the Neuneo 208 does.

Note that the transcoder won't go to waste since you don't have dvi or hdmi, you'll always need a way to feed your set 1080i via component.

Note there is a trancoder (dtronics.com) that will transcode dvi to component (at about the same cost as the keydigital one), so you could (with an hdmi to dvi adapter) get the panasonic s97 (probably the best of the sub $300 players that upconvert via hdmi, not component).

Either way, if your set only has rgbhv HD inputs, you either need the neuneo 208 or equivalent + breakout cable OR zenith318, panny s97 + transcoder + breakout cable. If your set is a XXX03 model, you will see a huge improvement with an upconverting player.

Best,
jeff

Jeff -

Thanks a great deal. At lunch I will check my serial number. I know my set has 2 component inputs, but I do not know if they are limited to 480i.

Thanks again.

Originally posted by mdray
I'm starting to think this way myself.
I've never understood how you can take, say 480i, scale it up to 1080i and call it hi-def. At the end of the day you still have an image with 480 lines of information. Nothing is added to what is already there, except maybe a slightly sharper image.
I've already owned three upscaling players. I've never been able to tell the difference between the upscaled and standard image.
It reminds me of the story "The Emperors New Clothes". I keep telling myself there must be a difference, but I can't see it. Maybe the reason I can't see it, is because it isn't there!

Well imagine that I describe for you a square box. I tell you the coordinates of the 4 corners of this box. You can then scale the box up or down in size, and have no loss of quality in the final rendering. The amount of info in the source is not necessarily a contstraining factor.

It's certainly quite possible for video to be scaled and result in a better picture than the original 480 source lines. Granted the result isn't a perfect 1080i image, but it's not necessarily bad either.

You see a person standing in front of a red car, your mind can insert the red portion blocked out of view because it can make reasonable assumptions about what is not visible.

Imagine a video image of a block of neapolitan ice cream. The 3 colors of the ice cream are rendered in 480 lines. Then I upscale to it 1080i. Between two lines of light green ice cream, a third line is inserted. Is it the *exact* shade of green that would have been present in a true HD image? Maybe not, but it's still pretty close approximation and can result in a better picture than the original source.

Now imagine if that 3 colored ice cream block had some angles and shading going on, and that the whole image was moving, and that the source image was pull down from film. This all adds complexities to the idea of just inserting one green line between 2 others, but that's what the different scaling chips and algorithms do - they try to find the best way to add in the interpreted lines to the original.

Originally posted by stereopath
Is the Momitsu the only available upscaling machine now being sold with component out? No, the Zenith DVB318 (with downgraded firmware) and the NeuNeo HVD108 and HVD208 also scale over component.

I've already owned three upscaling players. I've never been able to tell the difference between the upscaled and standard image.

It's certainly quite possible for video to be scaled and result in a better picture than the original 480 source lines. Granted the result isn't a perfect 1080i image, but it's not necessarily bad either.

There are many video processors that can do a fantastic job "upscaling" , unfortunately they are sometimes quite expensive, the question is , where is your best video processor and are either of them (the one in the dvd player or the one in the tv) good enough for you.

best buy is carrying the new samsung 850. it looks pretty much identical to the 841 -- except it has hdmi instead of dvi. iirc, the 841 did N0T have the dcdi chip....so i assume the 850 doesn't either? the samsung website makes no mention of the chip...at least not that i could find.

can anyone confirm/deny?

My Samsung DLP has a native resolution of 720P. Does that mean if I buy a DVD-player with upscaling chip the video be down scaled into 720P or does the native resolution only pertain to video below 720P such as 480i.

My DLP only has DVI so what would be the best DVD upconverting player under $300? The new sony?

Originally posted by partialpaul
My Samsung DLP has a native resolution of 720P. Does that mean if I buy a DVD-player with upscaling chip the video be down scaled into 720P or does the native resolution only pertain to video below 720P such as 480i.

My DLP only has DVI so what would be the best DVD upconverting player under $300? The new sony?

Not exactly sure what you are asking here but if you set an upscaling DVD player to output 720p then the Samsung will not do any further processing. It will receive the digital signal and just display it.

I would highly recommend the Panasonic s97 in your price range. Works great with my Samsung and Panasonic has been pretty good about releasing firmware upgrades to fix the one thing that many have complained about on this player - macroblocking.

The S97 has an HDMI output but does the HDMI to DVI conversion fine (not all players do).

Originally posted by tweeterex
There are many video processors that can do a fantastic job "upscaling" , unfortunately they are sometimes quite expensive, the question is , where is your best video processor and are either of them (the one in the dvd player or the one in the tv) good enough for you.

Agreed, I think the main point is just the homespun wisdom that you can't get a better picture than what's on the source is a myth worthy of busting.

Originally posted by EricScott
Not exactly sure what you are asking here but if you set an upscaling DVD player to output 720p then the Samsung will not do any further processing. It will receive the digital signal and just display it.

I would highly recommend the Panasonic s97 in your price range. Works great with my Samsung and Panasonic has been pretty good about releasing firmware upgrades to fix the one thing that many have complained about on this player - macroblocking.

The S97 has an HDMI output but does the HDMI to DVI conversion fine (not all players do).

What if I set the dvd player to output at 1080I then what will my TV do to the signal? SHow it in 1080I or show it in 720P? The native resolution statment has got me confused I guess. My DLP is a Samsung if I failed to mention that. HLN567WX/XAA

Originally posted by partialpaul
What if I set the dvd player to output at 1080I then what will my TV do to the signal? SHow it in 1080I or show it in 720P? The native resolution statment has got me confused I guess. My DLP is a Samsung if I failed to mention that. HLN567WX/XAA

Your Samsung will display everything at 720p - no matter what the source and what the original format is. So if you pass the Samsung a 1080i signal from your DVD player, the Samsung will have to rescale it to 720p. This is typically not ideal since you are starting with a 480i source (the DVD), scaling it to 1080i on the DVD player, then passing it to the Samsung, which has to rescale it to 720p. You are probably better off passing the Samsung a 720p signal from your DVD player. But you can easily do a quick A/B comparison to see which you prefer.

With cable/satellite set top boxes it is slightly more complicated. Typically the scaler on your STB is not as good as the one in your Samsung so you will most likly want to have the STB output each channel as is (assuming there is some sort of pass through setting) and let the Samsung do all of the processing.

My set top satalite receiver is a Dish Network 811 and I have it set to 720P. It doesn't have the pass thru option that I have seen. So does the newer Samsung DLP's display in 1080I or do they all do the 720P native resolution like mine?

All of the Samsung DLPs (HLMs, HLNs, HLPs) have a native resolution or 720p. This year Samsung is releasing 1080p native resolution DLPs.

Originally posted by Neild
Agreed, I think the main point is just the homespun wisdom that you can't get a better picture than what's on the source is a myth worthy of busting.
Neild,
Upconversion providing better pq is not a myth. Displays that have poor internal upconversion (tosh *81, first gen mits HD for example and there are others) significantly benefit from an upconverting DVD player say one in the $200 range. Search the archives and you'll see lots of info going back over the last 1-2 years that demonstrate it's benefits. There are other reasons, but do some research and you'll find lots of info here.

[went off to search myself] Found losts of threads in the archives. Here's one that I started:
DREAMX-108 THREAD (http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=343193)

Search on sigma 8500, etc. and you'll get lots of hits and lots of info.

Best,
jeff

Originally posted by greeno
Neild,
Upconversion providing better pq is not a myth. Displays that have poor internal upconversion (tosh *81, first gen mits HD for example and there are others) significantly benefit from an upconverting DVD player say one in the $200 range. Search the archives and you'll see lots of info going back over the last 1-2 years that demonstrate it's benefits. There are other reasons, but do some research and you'll find lots of info here.

[went off to search myself] Found losts of threads in the archives. Here's one that I started:
DREAMX-108 THREAD (http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=343193)

Search on sigma 8500, etc. and you'll get lots of hits and lots of info.

Best,
jeff

Re-read my posts, you'll see I'm the one saying that upconversion can provide benefits and the myth I'm trying to dispel is people saying "you can't improve on the original" because they heard that in a beer commercial or somewhere

Sorry, no sale. Upconverting player user here.

If you can improve upon the original by upsampling the image size with interpolated pixels that do not exist in the original, you can upconvert a $10 dollar bill and buy a beer with it.

This fact has not been dispelled.

Sorry Neil. My bad. I re-read your post and you're quite correct.

I must have still been carrying some baggage from a previous poster in another thread spewing garbage dismissing upconversion as snake oil.


Sorry again.
Best,
jeff

Not exactly sure what you are asking here but if you set an upscaling DVD player to output 720p then the Samsung will not do any further processing. It will receive the digital signal and just display it.

Are you quite sure , or is this an assumption?

greeno,

When you say the "tosh 81" are you referring to the 42" rptv HX81 Toshiba. I have that tv and wasn't aware that it would benefit from upconversion or that it had a DVI/HDMI connection. If that is the case I'll sell my Pioneer Elite 47ai on ebay fro $450 on ebay and buy a cheap Sony or Panasonic S97 and expect a unbelievably better picture and pocket a few dollars. Please confirm.

Andy

The tosh *81 is the 81 series made in the 2002 model year. There were the H81's and the HX81's. I have a 50HX81. Very much like your 42'' inside, especially when it comes to the bad internal upconvert. With these sets, you will see an improvement. I used to have the highly regarded panny rp-82 that I used at 480p. At 480p you do not get the full resolution of the DVD format. At 1080i you do. So the bottomline is these sets benefit from upconversion. The question is how much do you want to spend?

We don't have the newer dvi or even newer hdmi connectors. But we do have component inputs. Therefore, if you don't want to buy an additional piece of hardware (dvi to component transcoder), you're left choosing between players that will upconvert via component. This includes (only listing currently availalable models) the zenith 318, the momitsu (various ones) and the neuneo 208. Of these the cheapes is the zenitht. The neuneo and the momitsu are about the same when you add in shipping from overseas. If you want to pop for the transcoder (dtonics.com make a good one, and you might need a hdmi to dvi adapter, that runs about $300) you can consider the panny s97 or the oppo. Both of these are dvi/hdmi only upconversion. Component only gets you 480p at best.

If you're looking for bang for the buck, I'd get the zenith. Next choice is the momitsu, then the neuneo.

Latest and greatest is in my mind the s97, but will cost you more because you need the trancoder.

Here's a note, I'll bet that a transcoder like the dtronics one will sort of future proof sets like ours (I don't want to upgrade my display for at least another 5-7 yrs). dvi and hdmi will be here for awhile and you'll always be able to use it (the transcoder) in the future.

Hope this helps.

Best,
jeff

I have yet to see a set that I sell and am familiar with benifit from either the sony "upconverting" player or the samsung....I suspect that there may be some older or less expensive displays that do...I have seen some improvement on sony tv's when using some denon, marantz, and integra players , still , a bit anecdotal.....it seems that my pickyest customers seem to be discovering the same thing as they have tried every cheap solution and returned them before looking for a better unit (or outboard processor) or giving up entirely........remember that many decent displays (from what I've been told by manufacturers engineers) are still going to play with the incoming , upconverted, video ...... If you're a little picky, get a better display or a REALLY good HI-END dvd player, if your REALLY picky, get an excelent display or a VERY good outboard video processor and a display that won't screw that signal up

tweeterex,
I'll bring a link to you as substantive evidence of what a bad upconvert looks like (and the one I'm speaking of specifically).LOOK HERE. (http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/brandspecific/toshiba/miscellaneous/540p_michaeltlv_jun03_1.html)
Oh, and my 50hx81 (2002 model year) was more expensive than the current 51'' cinema series. Hardly a cheap/no name display.

Best,
jeff

greeno, that post was not directed at you , just a generic observation.

Okay. But while I directed my post at you, the link is sort of a general FYI. Maybe even something you can pass on to your customers...

Best,
jeff

Momitsu wont play some region one DVD’s

I just tried to play one of my region one DVD’s with my Momitsu set to region zero and it wont play. It gave me a screen that said ( This disk was intended to be played in a region one unmodified player ) and showed a map showing the region’s.

Has anyone else had this happen to them and what DVD was it ?

Mine was Bad Boys 2. I suppose I could just set the player to region one but I thought that region zero would play all regions ?

Not if they are RCE. Just reset to region 1 and you're good to go.

jeff

OK, this might sound like a stupid question but is the V880 limited to how many times I can change the region code ?

Originally posted by sdg72
OK, this might sound like a stupid question but is the V880 limited to how many times I can change the region code ?

I would highly doubt it. Nothing about that is mentioned in the manual. Or in the FAQ's on that player that I have read.
You should be able to switch it back and forth as often as you like.

Has anyone heard anymore info or a release time on the sony dvp-cx995v disk explorer 400. love the idea of a dvd player that upconverts and will hold all of my dvd's. Maybe I can use my china cabinet for something else now.

I think there is a limit of 6 on V880. Read it a while back. Cannot find that post or would have attached the link. Check with extremephono.com

there is no limit on region switching on the v880, though there might be on the network version

OK it looks like a mixed report so I will try Extremephono.com and see if they know. :)

I must say that I have been very happy so far with the momo the only complaint I had was the output needed a little boost with a Extron 120p to get the punch in the picture with my CRT PJ. but that did the trick and wow the picture is awesome.

If any one is using this unit with a 1272q Sony or similar with a custom DVI setting could you tell me what settings you found to be the best with a 4:3 60x80 screen. I am currently using 1152x864 at 59.94 and it seems to be about right with no raster overlap that I can see.

... dcdi chip on the new samsung 850? i'm guessing no...but was wondering if anyone here knew for sure?

Originally posted by kdog044
No, the Zenith DVB318 (with downgraded firmware) and the NeuNeo HVD108 and HVD208 also scale over component. If you go to the LG website and look at the pdf file for the LG 3510A I think it says 1080i over component. ANyone have any experience with this upconverting DVD player? Does the ATSC tuner in it use a new 5th generation chip?http://us.lge.com/download/product/file/1000000114/LST3510A.pdf

vurbano,

Thinking about getting a LG 3510 myself, but no component upvert for commercial DVDs -- only 480p out of component and RGB for rental DVDs

3510 is getting it's official trashing at this link:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=331339&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

I just hooked up my new (to me) DVD-318 and the picture is great. I haven't had the chance to recalibrate my set with DVE or Avia but I looked at Seabiscuit and the Italian Job and the picture was stunning. My game room setup is an old 65" Toshiba and I'm passing the feed thru a Denon 5803.

Perhaps I've read enough of this stuff that I've become brain dead.

I've ordered a 67 series Sammy DLP (not for being brain dead :-) ). Now the Sammy has the Fujita chip, no wait..Fujita is the tornado scale - but you get the picture, and the Sammy DLP can do its own upscaling, right? So tell me why I need an upscaling DVD player? Is it just more efficient (better) to do it in the digital domain inside the DVD player? But doesn't HDMI = digital domain all the way and hence could nicely support upscaling in the TV in stead of the DVD player?

I've been told that before, also. But you can't buy just any old progressive scan DVD player and expect it to look as good as some of the more expensive ones. Don't get me wrong there are many, many inexpensive players that look fantastic, but they USUALLY cost more because they have more features.

For example, I have a NEC HT1000 projector with a Mom V880 (retail $250)and while watching a movie with wife and kids the movie froze up (because of the media not the player) so I took out the DVD and placed it in my Pioneer 578 (retail $120) to watch the rest of the movie and instantly my wife could tell the difference in picture quality. I am not into all the technical stuff but when a non professional like me or my wife can tell a big difference then I think I would spend more on a quality player.

Just my $.02

Originally posted by shanec
Perhaps I've read enough of this stuff that I've become brain dead.

I've ordered a 67 series Sammy DLP (not for being brain dead :-) ). Now the Sammy has the Fujita chip, no wait..Fujita is the tornado scale - but you get the picture, and the Sammy DLP can do its own upscaling, right? So tell me why I need an upscaling DVD player? Is it just more efficient (better) to do it in the digital domain inside the DVD player? But doesn't HDMI = digital domain all the way and hence could nicely support upscaling in the TV in stead of the DVD player?

IMO, the main consideration with any DVD player, upconverting or not, is to get the TV a digital signal through DVI or HDMI and avoid digital to analog signal conversion and transmission though analog signal paths such as component or S-vid.

I have a Sammy DLP tv and the Sammy 841 connected via DVI. For a long time, I ran 480i to the Sammy via DVI without knowing that I had to select DVI output to be 720p. I couldn't notice a difference when outputting 720p from the 841 because the tv upscaler was doing as good of a job as the DVD upscaler. The key is the digital signal path.

Some TVs may not have as good of a scaler as the Sammy tv's and the upscaling DVD player may provide a better picture. But if the tv has as good of a scaler or better than the DVD player then send the signal digitally to the TV via DVI or HDMI and let the tv do the upscaling.

You will likely notice the benefits of an upscaling DVD player with fixed pixel digital displays like DLP. With DPL, the signal stays entirely digital if you use DVI or HDMI for video.

As a side note, I have another Sammy 841 connected to my HD plasma and it does a better job upscaling the video to the plasma's native 768p display than the plasma scaler does. The Sammys can output the signal to 768p, which not all upscaling DVD players can do.

The Sammy 841 isn't the best performing DVD player on the market and it has its shortcomings, like not passing BTB, but for the money, it's hard to beat and the BTB issue doesn't bother me. DLP tvs don't have the best black levels anyway.

It seems like a lot of people are recommending the Panasonic S97S player. But with the Panasonic S77 being released soon, is it techincally better than the S97?

Why is it being released months later, but have a lover numeric designation? Thanks.

Originally posted by investor27
It seems like a lot of people are recommending the Panasonic S97S player. But with the Panasonic S77 being released soon, is it techincally better than the S97?

Why is it being released months later, but have a lover numeric designation? Thanks.

With what I have read on the S97 thread, it has less features and targets a lower-priced market. Not sure if its going to be technically better. Should have same firmwares. Think it does not have Faroujda chip as well...which might mean no MB..but also might mean..not as good video quality..only time or some review comparing the two will tell..

Originally posted by mallu2u
Think it does not have Faroujda chip as well...which might mean no MB..but also might mean..not as good video quality..only time or some review comparing the two will tell.. Early press releases mention Faroudja so I would guess it still uses the same deinterlacer.

Hey guys,
My q50 has died and I am looking at getting one of these upconverting dvd players. Have a Toshiba 36hf73 crt and I am currently using my DVI port for my digital cable but can switch to component if needed. I have been looking at the oppo and the nueneo. I have seen lots of positive feedback about the oppo and they have released several firmware releases lately. My q50 used the earlier genesis chip and my tv scaled to 1080i. Picture was great. I am using my old memorex progressive scan player and what a difference. Anyone have the neuneo player? Anyone know if the PQ is
better or worse then the Oppo? Is it reliable. I have yet to own a dvd player that did not have issues(freezes, skips, audio hiccups etc) Thanks Joseph

I just wanted to fill in one of the ??'s from the table on page 1. The Toshiba 5970 can definitely be made region free via a code. I have tried it and played a PAL DVD on it, and it played flawlessly. So, that entry can be changed to YES, or HACKABLE, or whatever is appropriate! :)

Question... With the new Mitsubishi sets with 1080P being released this summer, they should take the upconverted 1080i signal from these players and make the pic. look better, yes?

D

Originally posted by mallu2u
With what I have read on the S97 thread, it has less features and targets a lower-priced market. Not sure if its going to be technically better. Should have same firmwares. Think it does not have Faroujda chip as well...which might mean no MB..but also might mean..not as good video quality..only time or some review comparing the two will tell..

I read in an S97 thread that the S77 and S97 have identical specs. The specs also indicate the S77 does have the F-chip. The MSRP is much lower. Speculation is that the S77 is an S97 with lower build quality (same electronics, cheaper chassis) to compete with Samsung's new crop of inexpensive up-converting players.

well i have finally given up on getting a sony975 that will work for more than a month (i have had 3....the first had the tray lock problem, and the second two had failing hdmi outputs). when it was working it was fantastic but after terrible experiences with their customer service i am finally getting a refund and looking elsewhere.

all i need is a dvi or hdmi outputting player, with SACD. i'd get a Samsung for the additional DVD-A support but i have seen the 841 on my setup and the black crush was HORRIBLE.

can anyone make a quick suggestion for a sacd/upconverting player with minimal black crush?

thanks

has anyone heard of any audio-synch issues with the LGDVB418? i bought one and had the problem at home, whether using component or hdmi. then i noticed in the store that we had another demoing some material ... and it also had an audio-synch issue.

needless to say, mine will be returned. i'm thinking about the sony since it will communicate with my sony tv via hdmi and output the correct resolution (or at least that's what the review i read said)...

Originally posted by oleus


can anyone make a quick suggestion for a sacd/upconverting player with minimal black crush?



I have a Bravo D1 Player. It has a georgeous picture with no black crush. The Bravo D2 (later model) is available from Target.

i owned a Bravo D2, it was ok. i really need something with SACD too, though.

Hi
I'm so hooked on HDTV I can hardly enjoy a DVD anymore.

How close to Hi Def cable will any of the up-converting players get me??

My set-up now is:
CD/DVD/SACD - Phillips 963 SA
Receiver/Amp - Yamaha RXV2300
Display - Pioneer HD910 43" Plasma (w/HDMI)

I have been looking at the Pioneer DV 59avi, (waiting for another $ drop) but started thinking "why buy any DVD player now with HD-DVD on it's way?". Hell, I'm not even buying any more SD DVDs for that reason!

In my research looking into possible release dates for HD-DVD I realize that it's a bit further off than I'd thought...

Then I saw a review on the new NeuNeo HVD208 (http://www.bytesector.com/data/bs-article.asp?ID=447) .

I was impressed that this player up-converts to 1080p and outputs via HDMI, but the reviewer didn't really address the PQ when doing this from an SD DVD.

Which brought me to this thread and us back to my original question.
How much improvement will I see over my Phillips 963 (which has a great picture, but no video up-conversion)??

Your recommendations will be truly appreciated.

Thanks,
Randu

Originally posted by Randu
Hi
I'm so hooked on HDTV I can hardly enjoy a DVD anymore.

How close to Hi Def cable will any of the up-converting players get me??

My set-up now is:
CD/DVD/SACD - Phillips 963 SA
Receiver/Amp - Yamaha RXV2300
Display - Pioneer HD910 43" Plasma (w/HDMI)

I have been looking at the Pioneer DV 59avi, (waiting for another $ drop) but started thinking "why buy any DVD player now with HD-DVD on it's way?". Hell, I'm not even buying any more SD DVDs for that reason!

In my research looking into possible release dates for HD-DVD I realize that it's a bit further off than I'd thought...

Then I saw a review on the new NeuNeo HVD208 (http://www.bytesector.com/data/bs-article.asp?ID=447) .


$225 for the NeuNeo?!?! Holy somkes, I had been under the impression that HD-DVD players were expensive.

Still, I think I'll wait for the format war to end before going HD-DVD.

Originally posted by shanec
$225 for the NeuNeo?!?! Holy somkes, I had been under the impression that HD-DVD players were expensive.

Still, I think I'll wait for the format war to end before going HD-DVD.

that's not the problem...the problem is that there are hardly any movies in HD...

the format war has ended...all the parties have agreed a week or so ago to collaborate...

But will this NeuNeo play them. It plays a "HVD" format.
What's that??
(I think there are about 5 titles available and they are all in Chinese)

Originally posted by Anubys
that's not the problem...the problem is that there are hardly any movies in HD...

the format war has ended...all the parties have agreed a week or so ago to collaborate...

I read they agreed to talk. Is there a common format yet? Will next year's (this year's?) players play whatever that common format is going to be?

Originally posted by shanec
I read they agreed to talk. Is there a common format yet? Will next year's (this year's?) players play whatever that common format is going to be?

you are correct...they agreed to end the war and come-up with one format...how long will that take?

But at least you don't have to worry about which kind to buy in the future!

Just got finsihed setting up the Oppo with VE on my Mits WS55315 and I must say I am very impressed. I watched several movies clips including Monster Inc, Star Wars I , II, Top Gun , and Fast & Furious (known as a rough and heavy voice dubbed movie) and I see nothing but perfection. I am using the Coaxial Digital output (always prefered that to optical). I expected to see a soft picture with anti-alaising issues or jaggies but really in contrast I had a very clear and sharp picture without artifacts. Blacks are excellent as this player steam rolled BTB.
I also agree they could have designed a tougher looking tray but I do not see it being an issue. Other than that the design is solid. It does not feel cheap at all. Even in the box the unit is actually stored in a cloth nap sack that has Oppo silk screened on it vs. just plastic or foamy paper. They over glued the new pop up info card on the unit but I left it on there because it will not be seen and years down the road may make a better Ebay picture.
I can only speak for Mits CRT with DVI input on the back. I would think most good CRT projos would yield similar results but I see a few Toshiba people not satisfied. If you are using a Sammy with DVI out (tried it the other day) trash it. This player walks all over it for PQ.
Last... I agree that players are going to get torn on apart on avs no matter what but for $200 this is worth a try. I also recieved it in 3 days.

What could improve this player? I would have paid $249 if it could do 480p, The windows media HD format, photo card reader and lastly an input for component/s-vid/composit and the ability to use its technology to upscale via an aux input on the back (line input). That would have knocked it out of the park!

GB

Originally posted by mallu2u
Craig: Actually I warned against Sammy & not Panny! Panny is way way better than Sammy in my opinion. Infact I bought it as well. And yes, there have been two firmware upgrades since last december that have really helped make this player even better.

PREFACE: I’d like to express my appreciation to everyone who has contributed their opinions and conclusions in this thread no matter how trivial. All of your posts went a very long way in helping me make my decision on which DVD player to buy. I especially want to thank in particular Mallu2u for keeping the Post #1 up-to-date and to Paul Bigelow for his specification updates. Now to the meat of it…

Today, I retired my JVC 480p Progressive and bought the Panny S97 (Mfg’d Mar ’05 w/504 firmware) for $279 from Magnolia HiFi (www.magnoliahifi.com ; stores in California, Oregon & Washington). Hooked it up to my Sammy HLM507W using the supplied HDMI cable and an HDMI-DVI converter. (I should note that I had previously calibrated the DLP with Avia/DVE through component on the JVC. I have not, as yet calibrated the S97. And, from what I've experienced, I might not..."if it ain't broke, don't fix it!")

Slipped in Star Wars VI and from right out of the box, the picture quality was outstanding. However, there was a very small amount of black crush to where I couldn’t see ALL the folds and textures in Ol’ Darth’s cape or in some of the black uniforms of the Imperial Twits. Using the Pany’s remote, I bumped up the brightness to +1 and everything immediately snapped into perfection. (BTW, somebody should’ve told the Wardrobe Manager to brush the lint off Darth’s uniform! :D And, it wasn't noise! :rolleyes: ). Then, I slipped in the Heart Live In Seattle and one of the first thing I noticed was NO MORE BANDING (no pun intended)! I can only surmise this is due to using the HDMI/DVI connection instead of the component connection I had been using with the JVC. As for PQ, I like the 720p output best of all, no black/white crush, no red/green push or green depression, no pink tint and I personally can’t see any macroblocking.

So, the bottom line, ladies, is that I am one happy camper with this beauty! And, I have this Forum to thank for it!

Cheers…

Bravo D2 or panasonic s97 this will be for a 20.1'' lcd dell monitor on a 65 foot work boat.
what do you man think

For those people still a little interested... the Bravo D3 HD player projected release Midsummer, per sales department. But, don't hold your breath! If you call the sales department, they will put you on a contact list a few days prior to the player's release.

714.668.0588

http://www.vinc.com/about_us/company.asp

Why would anyone wait for the Bravo D3? It's what...about a year and and late, since it was first promised? Believe it when I see it.

The Momitsu V880 uses the older Sigma EM8550 chip, but is one of the best upscaling players because of its adjustable scaler.

The I-O Data AVeL LinkPlayer2 and Buffalo LinkTheater both playback true HD, (WMV9 or mpeg2/4/TS/PS/Xvid/DivX), but no DVI or HDMI. The I-O Data also upscales protected DVDs to 1080i or 720p, via component.

I am assuming up-conversion to 720p.

Can any of the current crop of up-converters scale the picture horizontally and vertically to make a 2.35:1 movie exactly fit a 16:9 HDTV (720p) screen in the vertical direction. That is, no bars and no vertical or horizontal distortion. I realize that some information will be lost on the left and right ends of the screen.

My present DVD player the Samsung HD931 (which is up-converting) will not do this. It has a Zoom feature which expands the picture beyond the HDTV border in both the horizontal and vertical direction. My HDTV the HLN507 will also not do it.

I’m considering the Pany S97 – I hope this does it.

Thanks for your help,

Phil

Funny I just logged in here to post this request and I see PThackray's post.

I somewhat second his question but what I really want is an upscaling player that allows for ratio control. I would like to stretch a 2.35 image vertically for use with my anamorphic lens.

Any helpful suggestions will be appreciated - plus I can add to my post count by re-posting this info in the 2.35 forum. ;)

Currently I use an HTPC to do my scaling but would like to help my wife and daughter out a bit.
Its why they love me. :D

ted

Phil,

Over in the Toshiba thread they mentioned there is a Samsung DVD player with this capability.... no model mentioned.

Can't be done without some degree of distortion. Take a square piece of paper and make it into a rectangle without cutting off one or more of the sides. Can't be done without stretching and results in distortion. Reverse is also true if you start with a rectangle...it is either cut or shrink in one dimension. They did make some early widescreen tv's the stretched more at the edges which was less annoying but is still distortion

Paul,

If you expand a picture equally in all directions you will not create distortion. I realize that I will lose some picture on the ends. I receive HDTV broadcasts over the air and via a C-band satellite. They are always formatted to fit the 16:9 screen with no stretching (distortion) in any direction.

Phil

Originally posted by paulbehnke
Can't be done without some degree of distortion. Take a square piece of paper and make it into a rectangle without cutting off one or more of the sides. Can't be done without stretching and results in distortion. Reverse is also true if you start with a rectangle...it is either cut or shrink in one dimension. They did make some early widescreen tv's the stretched more at the edges which was less annoying but is still distortion

Ok who was this in reply to?
My question is somewhat different than Phil's - his is essentially a zoom mode maintaining correct aspect but filling a 16:9 screen - eliminating the sides of the picture.

Being an OAR type - that would be sacrilege in my view.
I *do* want to distort the 2.35 image as I do with my HTPC. . looking to utilize the full panel for my PJ as a scaler would do. I then stretch the image to its correct aspect with my anamorphic lens.

Should I take this question into the forum at large?

ted

tvted,

Download the Samsung DVD -950 manual from Samsungusa.com. It has a vertical stretch mode that sounds like what you are looking for. Unfortunately it’s not what I’m looking for.

Being an OAR type - that would be sacrilege in my view.

Yes, but most HDTV (broadcast), most C-band satellite HDTV programming and most Cable HDTV programming take 2.35:1 movies and display them with no bars on 16:9 televisions. These may be special formats where critical information is moved toward the middle of the screen (not just blown up 2.35:1) but still information has been lost.

I’m able to watch say Spiderman II in full High definition from a local broadcast source and from my big dish. It is formatted to fit the 16:9 screen with no bars and I like this look. I also have Spiderman II on DVD and I can watch this through my Samsung up-converting player. The picture quality is very close to broadcast HDTV but it has the bars on the top and bottom. For me it does not create the same theatrical feeling that no bars gives me.

Phil

tvted

That's Samsung DVD-HD950 not DVD-950.

Phil

Looks like the Oppo OPDV971H will do what I want. From their website:

Adds more zoom options: 1.2x, 1.3x, 1.5x, 2.5x, and 3.5x, in addition to the original 2x, 3x, 4x, ½x, 1/3x & ¼x options. This allows letterbox to fill the screen with a non-anamorphic widescreen DVD.
Plus this unit did VERY well on Secrets.

Phil

when do the HD950's come out?

i'd love to see if samsung fixes the black crush issue.

Oleus,

They are out. Do Goggle search on Samsung DVD-HD950.

I have an old 931 which has some issues. I just bought the Oppo 971 but haven't recieved it yet.

Phil

will the DVD-HD950 send out an upconverted image over the analog HD component outputs (YPrPb) or just DVI/HDMI?

RTK

You can download the manual at Samsungusa.com. If you have dial-up internet it may take a while to download (about 2 Meg).

FWIW, my old Samsung HD931 would output HD on the analog outputs.

Phil

Phil,
I've browsed thru the 950 manual and it doesn't specifically state that it will output 720p or 1080i over the analog component HD outputs. Are you certain that your 931 was outputing 1080i and not 480p?

TIA

RTK,

Now that I check on it, I’m not sure. The HD-931 specifies the component output for progressive or not progressive scan. It does not specify 480p or 720p. My confusion may have come from the fact that my HDD-200 (C-band HDTV decoder) does send 720p to my Samsung HLN-507W via component cables.

If the HD-931 is sending 480p then my TV must be up-converting to 720p because the picture via component and DVI are very similar.

Phil

Guys...which other Upconverting players do u think should be added to the list on page 1. Had been out for some time now. Can update the page now...

Mallu2u,

The Oppo is region free.

Samsung DVD-HD950

Phil

anyone know where i can actually find a samsung 950? best i've found is DELL, which has them backordered.

thanks
oleus

Oleus,

They are cheaper at FotoConnection.com. Don’t know about availability.

Phil

After thouroughly researching the Momitsu V880N I recently also discovered the NeuNeo 2081. I'm confused what is the best upconversion player right now using component? I was seriously considering the V880N although wifi isn't all that important to me, it'd be cool but I'd have to go wireless and I'm not currently there. Other's that have caught my eye are the IO Data AVeL Linkplayer2. I have a Tosh 57H81 (yeah, about 2 models before they started putting DVI jackpacks on them) so I have to use COMP cable. I know it's a pretty broad question but I'd really appreciate any input on comparisons between these units, my biggest criteria is PQ.

If you have a crt, which you do I would not bother with a upconverting dvd player. Concentrate on a player with a good deinterlacer. The difference that some people are seeing on their crt tvs is because they had a dvd player with a poor deinterlacer. I have tried a samsung hd931, momitsu v880dx, philips q50 and my memorex mvd 2042. The q50 had the best pq but only by a little over the memorex. The sammy looked horrible and had a terrible black crush. The momitsu was too soft for my liking. My tv is a toshiba 36hf73 and scales to 540p and 1080i. I have been told by dozens of experienced folks on this forum that only the fixed pixels benefit from upconverting dvd players. My memorex only cost me 29 dollars and I am quite satisfied. It is made by Winbase electronics which also makes the oppo 971h. The chips are made by sunplus out of china. All of the Winbase dvd players on their website have a 12bit D/A converter which explains the great colors I see. I would wait for the true hdtv players to come out and work the bugs out and let the prices come down before purchasing them. You can really get cought up in the search for the perfect picture.

Buy the Oppo--you won't be disappointed!

Artwood: Why the Oppo? Doesn't it only do upconversion through DVI/HDMI?

Theroys88: Based on what you said and what this guy said what do I believe? conflicting reports.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5623231#post5623231

hey Artwood,
Do you own a crt tube hdtv? If so what kind and did you see any improvement with the pq using the oppo? What kind of dvd player did you have before switching to the oppo? If you had one with a poor deinterlacer then you will see a difference. The genesis 2310 chip with DCDI will improve the pq substantially. If you had a dvd player with a very good deinterlacer then this player may break the trend. Winbase electronics makes that dvd player. If you go to their website www.winbaseelectronics.com.cn you will see it and it has the same model number 971h. Oppo is just rebadging it. If you have a tube crt then can you post some pics of oppo and non oppo on a good dvd transfer. thanks joseph-sorry I can't send you a pm.

Artwood,
the correct website is www.winbase.com.cn

slideways,

I have a Toshiba 57HDX82 that has a DVI input. I currently have a Panasonic S97 but I also have a Zenith 318.

The first DVD player that I mated to my Tosh was a Panasonic RP82 which a you know if you follow these forums is a highly regarded player. While the feature set of the RP82 is far better than that of the Zenith 318 I still replaced the RP82 with the Zenith 318 as the upconverted picture (over component) appeared much more detailed.

For those that say you won't see a difference on a CRT display I say they haven't really given it a shot. At first glance I felt the same way, I used the Zenith 318 for a week then I went back to the Panasonic RP82 for a week and at that point I immediately noticed the loss in detail while watching familiar material. My point is that upconversion really does make a difference even on a CRT display particulaly one like your's which is not known for having very good 480p to 540p upconversion, by going to a player that can send your tv a 1080i signal (your set's native scan rate) you are definitely going to see a better picture.

Personally, I would recommend the Zenith 318, old firmware is available to esnure that you can upconvert over component video; take a look at the Zenith 318 master thread. Also, take a look at the Secrets review; while there are a lot of cautions in the review about this player the score is quite good. In addition, most of the negative comments are related to the picture at resolutions other than 1080i. I don't know enough about others players that upconvert over component so I can't comment on them but as I said above I noticed a significant difference in detail going from the RP82 to the Zenith 318.

THank you EVT! That's more what I was looking for. I have a question for you about the 318 (I'm sure this is answered in 72 pages of posts on the master thread but thought I'd try to save some time if possible.) My whole intent is to get a DVDR and a DVD player. How does the 318 handle the many different DVD media types?

Thanks again might have to take a serious look at the 318 for ~$160.

EVT.......

Would have liked you to compare the S97 and 318 also............

I think it also depends on the crt internal scaler. If the scaler is inferior to the scaler in the dvd player then you will see a improvement in the PQ. My toshiba 36hf73 must have a pretty good internal scaler since I have not seen any real improvement with the upconverting players I have tried. I might try the 318 and if it I do not see a real difference then I can return it and get a refund. Other factors play in my enjoyment of a dvd. I like blacks to be outstanding and whites to be the same. I enjoy vibrant colors and a silky look to a good transfer. Lord of the rings is one such transfer that looks superb on my memorex mvd 2042. A thorough research has found that my unit has a 12bit 108mz/d/a converter. What is the point if your pq is a bit sharper but the colors are poor and blacks are washed out and the player puts out a sterile image. The samsung hd931 through the dvi had such a pq. Black crush was terrible(pirates of the carribean-god awful0 and bad transfers looked so grainy. It also seems so many of these players have so many bugs-mb, white crush, black crush, lip sync issues, sensitive to rentals. If anyone has some pics of images from a nonupconverting prog scan dvd player and a upconverting player then I think it would help but they are rare.

Slideways,

I have tried several DVD-/+ R DVD's without any problem on the 318.

HiHoStevo,

As far as the S97 vs the 318 I definitely give the edge to the S97 over HDMI. However, I'm still going to hold on to the 318 and run it at 1080i over component as the S97 can play PAL but does not convert it to NTSC whereas the 318 does. Also, the 318 does a better job of scalling non-anamorphic dvd's of which I still have a few.

In terms of picture quality I definitely do see an improvement on the S97. In addition, the S97 has many user options including PQ controls and Noise Reduction controls; it can also play DVD-A. If you have a DVI or HDMI input on your TV I definitely recommend the S97.

thoerys88,

You may or may not see a significant difference on your TV as the screen size is not very large. As far as the Samsung HD931 that was my first upconverting player as well. At the time I my main player was a Panasonic RP82 (one of the best at the time), while the HD931 produced a slightly sharper picture the picture in general looked absolutely terrible; I returned the HD931 within a week. However, the Zenith 318 is no HD931 (despite the fact it scores about the same on Secrets). The 318 can display blacker than black and does not clip whites (over component or DVI with the newest firmware) and unlike the HD931 it makes poor transfers look better not worse.

I also had tried POTC with the HD931 and was disgusted with the picture; however, on the Zenith 318 it looks great. I can see why your experience with the HD931 has jaded your view of upconverting players but the HD931 is really a poor example.

Has anyone compared the Neuneo to the zenith 318? I have a tube crt and am now considering trying another upconverting player. Would like to find one that I can keep since I am driving the wife crazy. Thanks EVT for the advise. I have a toshiba 36hf73 which scales to 540p and 1080i. Thanks Joseph

Walmart has this Cyberhome Upconverting player for under $90.
Link to CH-DVD 655 (http://www.cyberhome.com/products.asp?Product=655)

Anybody heard of the Giec GK-3288? It is available at www-hivizone-com

Regards,
John Flegert

EVT

I have the same RPTV which I love.

If you are ever available via PM I would love to converse.

Do you have the audio hiss issue with your set?

How does the Pan s97 work with a RPTV. I have read that it best suits Plasma and DLP, bu wanted to look into it.

Anyone own a neuneo 2081 and has anyone compared it to a philips dvd q50? My old q50 was the best PQ I have seen from a player. Thats including a sammy 931 and momitsu upconvering player. Thanks
Joseph

Hi-

I have a Sammy 5063 and I've been looking for an up-converting DVD player. I've been through the up-converting DVD thread...lots-o-options.

I have heard that the up-converting the 5063 does internally is as good/if-not-better than most up-converting DVD players. Anyone have some real world experience?

Thanks in advance
Eph

Hi-

I have a Sammy 5063 and I've been looking for an up-converting DVD player. I've been through the up-converting DVD thread...lots-o-options.

I have heard that the up-converting the 5063 does internally is as good/if-not-better than most up-converting DVD players. Anyone have some real world experience?

Thanks in advance
Eph

I had a Sammy 4663 and was less than impressed with it's internal scaler. I now have a Pio 4312 (Costco Pioneer) and the Pio's scaler is much better than the Sammy's was and my Panasonic S97 upconverting player does give a noticible improvement over the Pio's internal scaler, so I would assume it would give an even more noticble improvement over the Sammy.

Does anyone own an Oppo OPDV917H? Is this player as good as they're saying? I'm looking for something to replace my Samsung HD-841 due to the terrible picture through the DVI connection and a few other issues. This Oppo is only $199 and apparently blew the doors off of everything but a $3500 Denon player in a comparison study.

I bought the Oppo about a month ago to use with my AE700. It was a toss-up between that and the Panny S97. I am happy with my purchase, and the DVI to HDMI adapter seems to work well. I don't think you could go wrong with either player (if you can find the S97).

I'm glad you mentioned the DVI to HDMI issue because I forgot to ask about that. My Sony RP-LCD TV only has one DVI input and I have two DVI sources. I actually use an HDMI switcher with DVI to HDMI adapters to switch between the two sources. I couldn't find a DVI switcher that was compatible with the Sammy 841.

I have only tested the Oppo going from DVI to HDMI, so I do not know if you will have any concerns going from DVI-HDMI-DVI. The reason I chose the Oppo is because of the faster layer change and being able to play just about any disk you throw in it. You may want to check the S97 threads as the latest firmware seems to make lots of improvements and may be a better solution for you. I do notice the vertical line 'shimmer' on the Oppo, but it is not a deal breaker for me at this time, and I am hopeful that future firmware releases will improve this issue. I probably would not have noticed it if I didn't read this forum so much. The Oppo is very responsive, easily the fastest player I have ever owned. It is also HDCP Free!

I just got the Panasonic S77 from J&R $215, and its practically the same as the S97 ---amazing player!

I found the following on Oppo's website (oppodigital.com):

OPDV971H Hot Fix Release May 7, 2005

OPPO OPDV971H DVI DVD Player Firmware Release Notes
Version: OP971-4-0430 Release Date: May 7, 2005

This release of firmware addressed the following 2 issues:

1080i DVI output incompatibility issue with a small percentage of display models of Toshiba, Sony and Samsung. Symptoms include screen rolling, shaking or blackout.
Player tray randomly shuts down itself in high static environment.

Q: Who should upgrade to this release?
A: Only a very small fraction of the user base is affected. Upgrade to this release ONLY IF your OPPO player has experienced one or both of the above issues.

http://www.oppodigital.com/OPPOFirmwareHotFix0430.htm

When looking at the Oppo datasheet, it is not apparent to me if the Oppo supports 720p/1080i over the component interface. Can someone verify if this is possible or not.

Thanks
azarby

When looking at the Oppo datasheet, it is not apparent to me if the Oppo supports 720p/1080i over the component interface. Can someone verify if this is possible or not.

Thanks
azarby

No, it does not. Only over the DVI. The only thing you get out of component is 480i, and that is not even that good. (no blacker than black). Check the Oppo brain dump forum for more on this.

No, it does not. Only over the DVI. The only thing you get out of component is 480i, and that is not even that good. (no blacker than black). Check the Oppo brain dump forum for more on this.

Thanks,
It looks like the Momitsu 880DX just moved to the top of the list.

azarby

One would definitely NOT want the Oppo if they were planning on using component inputs. Over DVI/HDMI, I doubt you will find a better bargin, though.

Remember me. I'm the guy that said everybody ought to get a Bravo D1 or Bravo D2 player. Well, I just got my Oppo (which I found out about from this website). It has just as good a picture as the Bravo D1 and it loads every disk quickly--also the sound never cuts off to my amplifier (this did happen with the Bravo).

It is a neat slim unit that is the best player I have ever seen. My only complaint is that it had a piece of cardboard advertising attached to the top of the unit which was attached with double faced tape. It took me 1.5 hours to get most of the tape off the unit. The tape actually took some of the paint off the player.

HI, I was looking for some DVD player advice. I have a 32 inch Sony Vega CRT HDTV(with DVI) and I'm looking to purchase a DVI DVD player (under $300). I have done a tremendous amount of online reading pertaining to this subject but I still have a few questions.

1. I am constantly reading that the Momitsu V880 Deluxe is a great DVD upscaler, and I'm interested in this unit but since it comes from overseas, is it true that the power plug that comes packaged with the unit has to be modified for it to play in the US? If so.. is it difficult to modify?

2. I've read that CRT's don't really show much Picture quality improvement while using an upscale DVD player over the DVI port?? Any truth to this? Has anyone had any first hand experiences with Dvd Upscale players and CRT's?

3. How does the Oppo OPDV971H unit compare to the Momitsu V880 Deluxe. Anyone have both ?

4. Does the Momitsu V880 come with a DVI cable?

Thanks for all your help
Avidprime

Has anyone posted screenshots that actually show the improvement of upconverting?

I'd love to see what kind of difference it really makes.

I would love to see some shots also. So many people are so quick to state the marked improvements over a crt but no screen shots have been dowloaded as of yet. Makes me wonder if this is all just smoke and mirrors.

Well, the theory is sound... I found a few screenshots here but I'd like to see more:

http://softwareforhomes.com/upscaling-DVD-player.htm

Well, the theory is sound... I found a few screenshots here but I'd like to see more:

http://softwareforhomes.com/upscaling-DVD-player.htm
While those screenshots are nice, I'm not sure it's actually indicative of the improvements possible with upscaling. Simply because he's showing you the default background after the Zenith boots up with no disc in place, which of course, we have no idea what resolution that image originated at, or even if it's the same one at different resolutions.

I'm not saying that upscaling players aren't useful, I have a DVB318 in fact and love it. I'm just saying those screenshots may not be representative of anything. Heck, it may even look better than that under the right circumstances.

I've scoured these forums looking for a definitive answer to what's the best dvd player for upconverting under $750 and still don't really have a definitive answer. I see a LOT people like the Oppo, but how many of you who have this unit have tried the more expensive (and potentially better) units. I've been recommended to get the Denon 2910, but seeing as thats about 8 month old technology, I don't know if that's the best current unit. Please help!

In the following shootout, the 2910 scored an 86 versus the Oppo's score of 94:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_3/dvd-benchmark-introduction-9-2000.html

At the MSRP I reached my price vs performance threshold with the Oppo. I couldn't see spending a lot more for a little more but YMMV. I do think the S77 or S97 is probably an equally good buy with the latest firmware. You probably couldn't go wrong spending a thousand or two more either if you had it to spare.

I have found that it really all depends on how "BIG" you are planning on going with the picture.

For example, on my 42" Plasma display, I find that a progressive scan player (480P) is more then enough to give a nice sharp picture... however on my 106" FP screen 480P has large gaps in between the scanlines. So I use 720P (72Hz) on it and it looks very film like.

Was using a HTPC to achive this for many years but since getting the V880N I have never looked back... just slap the disc and and hit MOVIE TIME on the AMX touch screen and kick back and get drun........ I mean watch the movie! :-)


"HI, I was looking for some DVD player advice. I have a 32 inch Sony Vega CRT HDTV(with DVI) and I'm looking to purchase a DVI DVD player (under $300). I have done a tremendous amount of online reading pertaining to this subject but I still have a few questions.

1. I am constantly reading that the Momitsu V880 Deluxe is a great DVD upscaler, and I'm interested in this unit but since it comes from overseas, is it true that the power plug that comes packaged with the unit has to be modified for it to play in the US? If so.. is it difficult to modify?

2. I've read that CRT's don't really show much Picture quality improvement while using an upscale DVD player over the DVI port?? Any truth to this? Has anyone had any first hand experiences with Dvd Upscale players and CRT's?

3. How does the Oppo OPDV971H unit compare to the Momitsu V880 Deluxe. Anyone have both ?

4. Does the Momitsu V880 come with a DVI cable?

Thanks for all your help
Avidprime "

For what it's worth, we're being told by Samsung that the DVD-HD950 will be arriving into our warehouse on Monday 6/6. Keep your fingers crossed!

Let us know how it looks Neil. They sure could use a winning player.

From what I'm reading online, I'm leaning toward the Denon 2910. Sounds to me like it's got a lot of great tweakable features and DVD audio, as well as AMAZING sound quality. The Oppo sounds good as a "bargain" DVD player, but since I'm looking for a relatively high end deck, I'm skeptical about it being superior to the Denon. I'm open to objections however. :eek:

From what I'm reading online, I'm leaning toward the Denon 2910. Sounds to me like it's got a lot of great tweakable features and DVD audio, as well as AMAZING sound quality. The Oppo sounds good as a "bargain" DVD player, but since I'm looking for a relatively high end deck, I'm skeptical about it being superior to the Denon. I'm open to objections however. :eek:Higher priced DVD players add SACD and DVD-Audio with expensive analog audio stages. If you're not going to use the analog side of the player the MPEG decoder and scaler are key determinators. As far as the raw transport, there are only a handful of manufacturers ww to chose from. So apply your budget accordingly.

I have finally given up on the upconverting players. Have a 36" crt and have tried 3 different brands plus a q50 with the genesis chip. I would tell anyone that has a tube crt that the picture looks a bit sharper on good transfers but horrible on adverage or poor transfers and if you get close to the screen it looks very artificial. The best PQ for me has been the Memorex MVD 2042. All my dvd movies look great, the colors are great and so are the blacks. Sound from my coax seems more vibrant to my ears. It plays everything I throw at it and is super fast to respond. Only paid 29 dollars for it. Kris has yet to review it but I would think it would fair well. I have has several regular progressive scan players and the PQ was ok to good. The Memorex blows them all away. Obviously a good chip inside-Sunplus inc. My tv scales to 1080i so I can see why my players have not faired well

One area that I did notice a real improvement was on CGI movies. On those movies it looked like HD. That included the Q50.

Theroys88, Thank you for the PM. I am going to reply back here so that everyone gets some information out of it.

On a 36" CRT, or really any display that is not what I call a "Big Screen" display, an
up-converting DVD player is really not needed. Any DVD player that can do progressive scan is going to get the job done (any newer DVD player that is). Like you, I also have a $29 DVD player, The Cyberhome player from Radio Shack, and it works perfectly well on my 42" Hitachi Pro-line Plasma display in my living room. Even if I used a V880N or a Linksys player in my living room I would probably not go above 480P as like you said it really does not look any sharper and getting close to the display is going to show any and all artifacts.

Now increase the size of your display to say 65" or bigger (I have 106") and I can tell you that 480P is not going to cut it, as you will see the scan lines and that really distracts (at least for me it does) from the film like movie experience you get at the theater… and isn’t that what we are all trying to accomplish here?

So I bump my V880N up to a nice custom resolution of 1280x720P @ 72Hz refresh (for 3-3 pull-down) and I get a nice film like image with nice smooth pans. Is it as sharp as Hi-Def… well no or course not… but like you have seen, with very good transfers on some DVD’s (most of the new releases), it can look pretty darn good, and yes with shoddy transfers it is not going to look good… garbage in = garbage out.

Last night I watched National Treasure (round nails on very old wood stairs, come on film makers, heck my 100+ years old house has all squared nails!!! But I digress…. ;))….. and the transfer was very good and image was very detailed on the 106” screen. Now if I fire up a DVD from my collection like “Falling Down”, the image is not nearly as crisp and clean, but once I get into the movie I tend to forget and forgive. (or I will just watch it on my 42” plasma).

I am quite happy with the results I get from the V880N and it will hold me over just fine until I pick up my first Hi-Def DVD play next year and start the whole darn movie collection all over again…… but again I digress….. ;)

do all the upconverting players use the Faroudja chip (the "flawed" one with the macroblocking problem)?

i received the zenith dvb318 last night, hooked it up to my Panny L300U projector, "downgraded" the firmware so that i could upconvert thru component, fired up several dvd's including gladiator, finding nemo, matrix, matrix revolutions, titan ae, and life aquatic. ALL of them exhibited macroblocking. it was damn annoying.

also, i noticed that whenever there was a dark object against a light background and the object moved laterally (or horizontally), the edge "distorted"...this might just be the same macroblocking issue.

to me, these issues detract from the picture so much that i cannot enjoy the near hd image...in other words, sure, the picture quality overall is improved, but the artifacts (specifically macroblocking) detract so much that i know for sure that the zenith dvb318 is NOT for me.

now the question remains, do all of the remaining upconverting players have issues with macroblocking?

to be honest, if this is the case, i'll go back to my trusty panny rp62 (a player with the old faroudja fli2200 chip, the one that doesn't have any issues with macroblocking).

did you re-calibrate your plaer with DVE or equivalent BEFORE viewing movies? If not, then you've done ythe player or your display justice. When properly calibrated, many displays do not exhibit macroblocking enhance. I have two displays that look fantasic with the 318 (tosh 50hx81, mits 73903). On other displays I have seen mbe (last year's 65'' hit rpvt), but when properly calibrated, it can be minimized so that it only shows up VERY occasionally.

Best,
jeff

yup, forgot to mention that i did use dve to re-calibrate before trying those dvds.

didn't help though!

Well, I have the Panasonic S77, and it displays macroblocking on my 34" CRT. I'd heard it's not much of a problem on CRTs, but it has bothered me. Saw it on 6th Day, In America, and Panic Room. And I've only watched 7 or so movies straight through and saw it on 3. Once I saw it, it distracted me and I began to look for it for the rest of the movie.

In addition to macroblocking, I've had lip sync issues with all Faroudja upsampling players I've tried. I'm ready to give up.

jpco, have you tried the samsung 841? (that one doesn't have the faroudja chip, as far as I know).

jpco,

I haven't been following this thread much lately, but I have the Momitsu and haven't seen macroblocking and the picture is much better than my Pioneer 578....

Higher priced DVD players add SACD and DVD-Audio with expensive analog audio stages. If you're not going to use the analog side of the player the MPEG decoder and scaler are key determinators. As far as the raw transport, there are only a handful of manufacturers ww to chose from. So apply your budget accordingly.

As a relative newbie to this, I have no idea what you're saying. Are you saying the Denon is worth the money if I'm going to use the DVD audio? And what is "raw transport" and "manufacturers ww to chose from" WHats "ww"?

Does anyone have any info on the sammy dvd 9500 player

Do you mean the HD-950 that appparently will be available this month?

It's the DVD/VHS combo upconverting player that is new this month. Is it going to have the same guts as the sammy HD 950?

I think more like hd-850 possibly

Well, I sold my beloved old Mits 55908 Diamond and will be getting a projector soon. My Zenith 318 has MAJOR sync. issues with my pioneer 1014 amp. which my JVC player did NOT have. Here's my problem. I'm gonna want a 720P upconverting region-free (Pal converting) player that looks good over DVI. I've read that the zenith doesn't shine with the DVI and the sync. issue is bugging me anyway, plus the crappy 4x3 material handling issue. I thought the Momitsu sounded interesting but what about the remote issue??
What should I look at, fellas???

Thanx! D

I dont' know how long the samsung HD-850 has been out but I just picked one up last weekend. It's my first up-scaling DVD player and I'm very very pleased. PQ is fantastic, much better than my sony NS715P was (progressive scan, but not up-converting). I haven't seen much mention of the 850, so I thought I would post my comments. Has HDMI output.

Well that's good news! I saw the HD-850 at Best Buy. I've had problems with my HD-841 and they were going to let me exchange it for another model. But the HD-850 doesn't play SACD's and DVD Audios so I'm waiting for the HD-950's to come in. If the PQ is good on the HD-850, hopefully Samsung has resolved their PQ issues and the HD-950 will look good. Actually my HD-841's PQ is good over component, it's the DVI PQ that sucks (won't pass BTB). How is the menu navigation speed and remote control range on the 850?

rkneeshaw.........

did not mention if he was using DVI or Component for the connection....

Dave, imho, while you are going to change your display, might as well get hdmi capable and pick, samsung 850 or 950..i agree 850 does have very good picture!

Good point Stevo! Are you guys using HDMI or component cables with the HD-850?

I'm using HDMI.

Not sure what you mean when you ask how fast menu's react and such. I've noticed all that to be just what I've expected, no major delays or anything out of the ordinary.

Hey guys! I just got my first hdtv samsung hlr 5067w last week and i am new to hd. I was thinking of getting one of these upscaling dvd players but i have a few questions.

i assume to get hd i have to hook up the player to the tv via hdmi.

but if i do that how would i get the audio to go to my home theater reciever, my receiver does not have hdmi inputs and i rather watch the dvd with the ht instead of the tv speakers.

like i said i am new to this hd stuff and hdmi.

I am thinking of the sony or the denon 2910 if anyone has any other suggestion in that price range let me know.

Please give me some advice.
Thanks,
Vinny

Use an optical or coax cable for your sound.

the simplest way is to turn off your TV speakers...connect the audio using coax or optical to the A/V receiver and have it handle the audio through the home theater speakers you have (I assume you have 5 or more speakers hooked up to the receiver)...

has anyone here tried the oppo dvd player? it seems like a solid unit.

http://www.oppodigital.com/

the secrets shootout gave it a pretty nice review as well.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=122

There's a lot of talk on here about the Oppo. I subscribe to a couple of the Oppo threads. Do a search and you should be able to find the threads. The company seems to be diligently working on a couple of issues, namely an occasional shimmering picture problem and an occasional audio/video synchronization problem. Oppo seems to be very customer service-oriented.

are the samsung 950's actually available ANYWHERE yet?

New JVC branded IODATA networked upscaled DVD plus HDV/HD MPEG/DivxHD/WMVHD player with DVI-HDCP model PROHD SRDVD-100U

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=547592

has anyone here tried the oppo dvd player? it seems like a solid unit.

http://www.oppodigital.com/

the secrets shootout gave it a pretty nice review as well.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=122

I agree with Scott. I own the player but would rather let you read through the threads and make up your own mind. There's a lot on the forum about this player.
Javry

best dollar value for dvd player

I am looking to buy an upconvert dvd player for my toshiba 46hm84 dlp set. It has one hmdi input that I would use for either cable or dvd. Which set is the best value for the price.

I can get a samsung 841 for about $80
samsung 941 for $140
or a opp or pansonic s77 for $200

what are the differences in these set and is it worth it to pay more. Also what is macroblocking

Casey

I have a Samsung HD-841. Don't buy it if you're going to use the DVI output. It's got a very nice picture over component cables though. The DVI output won't pass blacker than black and you'll lose a lot of picture detail. $80 is a good buy for a universal player although you'll need to purchase 6 analog cables to listen to SACD's and DVD Audio cd's.

does the upconversion actually look good over component on the 841 or should i go for one the higher priced players

I don't think the 841 actually upconverts over component. It may look ok (can't say, never owned one) but I think you are getting a 480p signal.

Based on the majority of what you read here, I would stay away from the 841 at any price.

The 841 does upconvert through the component cables. I can toggle between 480p, 720p, 1080i. BUT, I choose to send the signal to the TV in 480p and then let my TV do the upconverting and this is based on a recommendation from a reputable TV calibrator in the Sony GWIII thread. I'm really happy with the PQ over component. The player is a disappointment over DVI. I'm not happy with the navigation speed through the menus at times. Sometimes you have to give it a second before you can make a selection. SACD and DVD Audio playback is very good. The manual and latest firmware is available in a PDF on Samsung's website.

My bad Scott - didn't realize the component upconverted.