Here is my personal experience with upverting which took place this weekend. I'm currently using an RP-91 as my primary player hooked up to my Mits 55315. Over the weekend I picked up the Samsung HD850 with the notion to retire the RP-91 into the bedroom. After recalibrating the Mits and Sammy with Avia at 480P I applied the hack to upvert via component video. My results were as follows. 480P was solid, but with 1080i I ended up having to recalibrate with Avia again, because the Mits has a separate video memory at this resolution. After tossing several titles at the player I was under whelmed. A good 90 percent of the time there was little or no difference and it seemed more dependent upon the title being used. To test this I closed my eyes and would randomly toggle thru the resolutions not knowing which I would wind up looking at. The only way I could tell was with fast pans. They were much smoother in 1080i than 480P. Other than that, I would not consider the HD850 on my display upgrade from my RP91. I returned the Samsung to Best Buy the following day. If my RP91 should suddenly die then I might consider the Sammy as a replacement, but that would be the only reason.

I have the OPPO player now but am returning it because of lip synch problem and MB.

What would you recommed for an upscaling dvd player that doen't have a MB problem?

I was leaning toward the Sony or maybe Samsung HD-850. I have an Samsung HLR-6167w DLP.

Oppo has just released new firmware with pq and audio/video sync fixes+audio delay adjustment.

Now we just have to decide what to turn "ON" and what is best left turned "OFF". Perhaps Paul or someone else can give us some insight ;-)

1. Fixed shimmering that bothered certain percentage of the user population
2. Added Off option for Sharpness.
3. Improved audio/video synchronization.
4. Added five Audio Delay options to suit various receiver systems. Options include 10ms, 20ms, 30ms, 40ms, and 50 ms.
5. Added On/Off options for Faroudja “CCS” (Cross Color Suppression)
6. Added On/Off options for Faroudja “TrueLife” enhancement
7. Added On/Off options for Angle icon
8. Added support for 540p DVI resolution
9. Added a toggle between the silvered-colored remote and the new black-colored remote by pressing and hold the STOP key on the front panel of the OPPO player for 3 second and then release. The firmware is default to support the silver-colored remote.

What exactly is the benefits of the black colored remote over the silver? Is it worth getting or does the silver have all the same features and functions?

Hi all-
well, i finally decided to just come out and post, rather than fruitlessly trying to find the answers to my a/v questions, amidst a vast amount of info... lurking has not paid off. i get lost for hours reading all kinds of things, straying way off the topic i started to research. this place is just a wealth!
so anyhow- i've been trying to figure out where i stand with upconverting, HDMI and so on.
i'm not as knowledgable with my equipment as i should be and i find i'm at a general lack of understanding with alot of topics.
lately, my focus seems to be whether or not i'm going to be able to take advantage of the HDMI features of my denon 2910.
i have a mitsubishi 55907 which sports component inputs that'll do 1080i and a vga input, but alas, no HDMI input...
i wonder, what with the upconverting and all kinds of switchers and cables and whatnot, am i going to be able to make this happen with my set?
i love my t.v. for the most part and don't want to upgrade, but the idea of getting higher resolutions is all to appealing...
thanks in advance for any input.
in the meantime, i think i'll go and try again to figure out how to determine which firmware version my player is running... or rather, try harder to understand the instructions and get them to work.


-gabe

i love my t.v. for the most part and don't want to upgrade, but the idea of getting higher resolutions is all to appealing...


If you really LOVE your TV, then my advice would be to enjoy it and forget about upconversion for now unless you want to try upconverting via component by getting a new player. I would not recommend giving up a monitor you like to upconvert a DVD that has only 480 lines of resolution.

I guess that is the question........ will the Denon 2910 upconvert over Component?

If so, give it a shot and see if you like it better than the previous resolution.

Each combination is different... some displays do a better job of scaling and de-interlacing than the players that are attached to them.... so there is not one easy answer for everybody.

thanks, guys!
yeah, i guess i'm being picky... but i figure if i "can" get a little better out of my equipment, what's the harm in trying? my t.v. can handle 1080i and so can the dvd player, but it's all about brigding the gap between them, that is the most frustrating!
hihosteve-
that's a question i'd sure love to see answered!
i was browsing around and noticed that perhaps one of the dvdo processors may help to some degree. i saw that they have packages where they have managed to upgrade the 2910 to some degree.
jpco- yessir. i do love my set! the only gripe i have is some burn-in issues that i know i didn't cause. this is my third rptv, but the first to suffer this problem (i'm VERY careful when it comes to the burn-in protocols).
still looking to get that resolved... but other than that, i find the PQ to be razor sharp. i know there's better and way better- but my set is paid for!
thanks again, guys. i'll continue to sift through the goods around here.

-gabe

[QUOTE
hihosteve-
that's a question i'd sure love to see answered!


-gabe[/QUOTE]

Should be pretty quick to answer.... just run a set of component cables from your DVD player to the Component IN's on your TV... set the DVD player for 480p and you should have an image on your TV set... then change the settings on the DVD player to 1080i and hit enter... either your TV will re-synch to the new freq or not.. question answered.

stevo-
first off, thanks ALOT for the tidbit!
here's what i cam eup with.
first, i tried moving the component cables from the usual ports that support 480i & 480p on my monitor (where the dvd player was) to the DTV inputs, which are said to display 480i, 480p and 1080i. (now here's where some of my knowledge wains) in the t.v's manual, it expresses that the DTV input can use component inputs form various sources with the three cable type, (y pr pb) as well as y pr pb and grbvh for devices using 5 cables.
well, the denon only uses the three and i have no other devices currently that use the 5 cable arangement- so i just plugged the denon into the DTV input and started smacking buttons. at first, like a complete ninny- i tried activating the hdmi/dvi selector on the remote, only to come up with zilch. so then i just tried the "format" button which cycles through 480p up to 1080i. the t.v. synced up with every format change, but the t.v.'s display said 480p regardless of what i set t to.
now, i currently don't have an hd stb (i will in a month or so when we close on our house and get in there), so i have nothing else that will produce a 1080i signal to test the input with...
funny thing is, this is the second t.v. of the same model i've owned- a mits 55907. the first one had some problems and a tech came to look at it and said that the DTV input on it was not working properly. so, tweeter sent me the new set and up until now, i hadn't tested the DTV input.
i can't help but wonder if maybe the DTV input may be screwy on my current set as well... what with the fact that the picture synced up with the format change, but did not displaye 1080i, wouldn't lead you to believe there was something amiss? or is that normal behavior if it just wasn't going to display 1080i via component cables?
also- i was buzzing around looking at cables online and spied a DVI-D to component cable for sale. is this a feasible solution?
i've also seen dvi-d to vga cables and my t.v. does have avga input (480 x 640 60hz). is that an option?
sorry for all the questions... but i have no choice but to ask away, until i can set aside some real time to bone up on the knowledge.
at any rate- thanks and thanks some more, for all the advice!

-gabe

Question about the upconverting DVD players.

My Panny AE700U projector has a native resolution of 1280 X 720. Is there an advantage to having the DVD player upconvert to a 1080i signal if the projector just has to down-convert it back to a 720 signal? Or should i just set the DVD player to output at 720p?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Question about the upconverting DVD players.

My Panny AE700U projector has a native resolution of 1280 X 720. Is there an advantage to having the DVD player upconvert to a 1080i signal if the projector just has to down-convert it back to a 720 signal? Or should i just set the DVD player to output at 720p?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Set the output to 720p. This will save an extra conversion which will usually degrade the picture.

If it were me I'd see which component (projector or dvd player) did the better job of upconverting. If the projector did a better job, I'd let it do the upconverting from 480p up to 720p. But if the dvd player did the better job, then I'd let the dvd player do the upconverting to 720p. In any event I agree with you PFC5 - the fewer times the resolution is changed, the better.

Ok. Heres the basics. I bought a Toshiba 65" HDTV from a friend. It has two component inputs and a ton of other svideo and all that Jazz. Heres the deal. MY dvd player is not giving me the quality i want. this tv is amazing for me, and i want the best picture quality I can get from a DVD player. Im using High quality RCA brand digital cables for everything, so pretty much the same as monster cables im told. Anywho, i want to know what DVD i should buy that will give me the best picture quality possible using component. I understand you can hack DVD players to upconvery via component, but i have no clue how all that works. If someone could tell me what the best DVD player is with out a huge pricetag, prolly under 200 or maybe 250, that i could use I would really appreciate it. I love that TV and my surround is amazing, but i need better picture quality to be happy. Thanks
Travis

I have heard that the zenith 318 and it's LG clone both upconvert over component... however, you must have the earlier firmware.. I am not sure what the number is, but there are threads here on AVS about it if you search for Zenith 318 +LG. The latest firmware only allows upconverting over DVI, where the earlier firmware only allowed upconverting over component... a bit weird, but it supposedly does a great job... leave PM for "Mystery" if you want more info as he has one.

Lunch........

If I am understanding you correctly you are feeding the TV a 480i/p signal and that is what the TV is reporting... it will NOT report another resolution until you actually send it a signal of that resolution. If you have an upconverting DVD player (i thought you did) after you get it to display at 480p switch the DVD players preferences to output the signal at 1080i. The TV should re-synch and tell you that it is receiving a 1080i signal. Same with the HD STB when you get it... your TV should report 1080i or 720p or 480i depending on what you are sending it.

On the 5 BNC inputs... two of them are for horizontal and vertical synch... component sends the synch signal over green so you just need to hook up the three component outputs from the Denon. DVI-D will work find for your HD-STB as it sends "digital" signals. The component/vga connector or DVI/VGA connector will not send a true digital signal as I understand it... VGA is an analog connection by definition.

I've recently purchased and setup the Qualia 006. I'm using a Sony 9000ES DVD player currently and am wondering if I should upgrade to a HDMI DVD player and if so, which one? Appreciate any thoughts/suggestions.

Thanks

Hey Blindie,
I would not waste your time or money on a upconverting player. I have a Toshiba 36hf73 and have tried three and have not been impressed. Focus on a good player with a good deinterlacer that is motion adaptive and has seamless layer changes and quick navigation.
I have settled with a Memorex mvd 2042. PQ is outstanding. Only 39 dollars. Most of the people that are raving probably had a player with a poor deinterlacer before they tried a upconverting player. I just bought a yamakawa 275 with the Sigma 8500 chip and the PQ on the progressive side was really bad. Also had a philips dvp 642 and it also was bad. When compared with the Memorex the difference was night and day. It is easy to get fooled into thinking that you are getting HD quality. The fact is that DVD movies are encoded to 480i. You cant magically change that. Wait a year and get a real hd player.

Momitsu V880N (running @ 720P, 72Hz refresh) : $300

Steward 106" StudioTek 130 fixed screen : Gift ("Yep free, not what you know, but who) ;)

Barcographics 808s (COST new: $16,999) : $3000 (yep, what I paid for it new ) ;)

DVD playback picture quality: PRICELESS.

Some things money can’t buy, for everything else there’s MasterCard…
.
.
.
.

HD quality?... Well no but some DVD transfers are darn close… and I have seen HD that is not all that great also so…..

HTPC picture quality in a standalone player that also lets me stream my entire media collection from DVD’s, to MP3s to pictures and even internet music right into my theater is a very nice thing.

Sure I will be getting a Blue-Ray/HD DVD player when they come out. But with the format war a brew’in I think I will be watching my current DVD collect for a few years longer before re-purchasing them all in the Blue-Ray or HD-DVD format.

I have easily already gotten my $300 worth of DVD/Music playback entertainment out of the V880N so for the next year or two it is all savings in my pocket.

So here is one VERY happy Upconverting DVD player owner. I would do it all over again without hesitation.

I've recently purchased and setup the Qualia 006. I'm using a Sony 9000ES DVD player currently and am wondering if I should upgrade to a HDMI DVD player and if so, which one? Appreciate any thoughts/suggestions.

Thanks

The qualia upconverts everything to 1080p, so no, I would not get another DVD player. Your best results will be to set the 9000es to output 480i over component. As I recall, the 9000es is an excellent 480i player but not so hot at 480p.

Are there any DVD players that upconvert over DVI or HDMI on the market in the US that don't exhibit white crush, black crush or BTB issues? Surely it can't be that difficult to engineer a scaling chip to avoid those problems, at a cost of course.

I want to keep the upconversion in the digital realm via DVI or HDMI or have the ability to send a 480i signal over HDMI to an external scaler (i.e. Lumagen) for a pure digital path to my Sammy HLN.

i just wanted to jump back in and say thanks again to everyone for their input and sorry for the late reply. i've been in california for the past few weeks.
anyhow- i think the best answer for me is to just bite the bullet and get a projector and not have to worry about if my t.v. will handle upconverting.
i've been wanting to get a projector for some time now, so this just proves as the perfect excuse to do so!
now it's all about which one, i guess...
thanks again, all!

-gabe

Oppo has just released new firmware with pq and audio/video sync fixes+audio delay adjustment.

I Just tried the new firmware upgrade on my OPPO. I asked OPPODigital to send me an upgrade disk and then I followed directions precisely. The DVD player stopped working. I now get sound but no picture. I called OPPDigital and they said to send it back. So now I have to shell out shipping costs out of my own pocket and wait 2 weeks for a replacement or repair. Luckily I still had my Bravo D1 (which is very temprimental but has a georgeous picture.)

I just bought a Samsung HLR4667W DLP TV. I have to admit I'm confused about these upconverting DVD players. I thought the TV already did that, so I guess the question is which one does it better?

Through another thread I was recommended to try the Samsung HD950, but as far as I can tell, it can't play DVD -R?

Are there any DVD players that upconvert over DVI or HDMI on the market in the US that don't exhibit white crush, black crush or BTB issues? Surely it can't be that difficult to engineer a scaling chip to avoid those problems, at a cost of course.


I'd like to second this. I've done some basic research and it seems every player has significant issues. Are there any upconverting players for $300 or less that work ? Thinking of targeting a 32" sharp Aquos LCD over DVI or HDMI.

If the Aquos does the up-conversion better, I'd be interested in just a good picture quality player. Are there any that really work ?

If not, I'll just get a long DVI cable and run off my $25 dvdrom and 9800Pro.

I just bought a Samsung HLR4667W DLP TV. I have to admit I'm confused about these upconverting DVD players. I thought the TV already did that, so I guess the question is which one does it better?

Through another thread I was recommended to try the Samsung HD950, but as far as I can tell, it can't play DVD -R?

You are right the DLP will do it's own upconversion - it scales all images to 720p (its native resolution) and has an excellent scaler.

The reason an upconverting player can give you an excellent picture on a Samsung DLP is because you are using a digital output and therefore keeping the entire signal path digital. With a normal DVD player connected via component the DVD player converts the digital 480i signal to analog, sends it over component and then the Samsung needs to convert it back to digital and scale and deinterlace it to 720p. By having the DVD player take the 480i digital signal and scale it directly to 720p and send it as a digital signal, the Samsung doesn't have to do anything.

Fixed pixel digital displays like DLP, Plasma and LCD will usually benefit the most from an upconverting player b/c the path is all digital. CRTs which are analog anyway won't benefit as much.

I Just tried the new firmware upgrade on my OPPO. I asked OPPODigital to send me an upgrade disk and then I followed directions precisely. The DVD player stopped working. I now get sound but no picture. I called OPPDigital and they said to send it back. So now I have to shell out shipping costs out of my own pocket and wait 2 weeks for a replacement or repair. Luckily I still had my Bravo D1 (which is very temprimental but has a georgeous picture.)

For what its worth- my OPPO with the new firmware has no audio synch issues, no shimmering and more configeration ability, so it may be worth paying for shipping depending on the problems you were having.

What exactly is the benefits of the black colored remote over the silver? Is it worth getting or does the silver have all the same features and functions?

I do not know if anything is added, but I sure wish they would have back-lit it for light controlled theaters!

Thanks for the education on the all digital path with upconverting DVD players. I did notice that they have DVI (HDMI) output which is the only scaling pathway. I just didn't know what it meant.

BTW, I hope I'm wrong about Samsung player not handling -R formats, as I have a lot of self-made movies I burned in that format. It may force me to spend a LOT more money.

Just set up my Oppo briefly before I had to leave town...

How can I tell what version my firmware is?

What is the most current version?

Thanks,

Samsung HD-950 feeding 720P out via HDMI Ultralink PRO Platinum 10 Meter cable then HDMI - DVI-D adapter input to my Hitachi TX-100 displayed on a Da-Lite HCCV 110" screen priceless...

I use the same hookup from my SA- HD8300 HDTV PVR WOW it even looks better on SD material eliminating one AD/DA conversion ...

The resolve is better and the colors are more vivid ..

All that is missing is a receiver that can do 7.1 ( with centre dialogue lift channel suedo 9.1 ) and 4 HDMI input switching ...CEDIA anyone :)

Hi REWJR,

I have a questrion for you seeing as you have a Samsung HD950. If you enter this key sequence on your remote (want to know before buying one if this works on the 950) It works on the HD850.

"Power" (when unit is off)
"angle"
"4, 3, 2, 7"
"angle"

On your TV you should see a message saying that "HDCP is disabled"
This will alow a person to upconvert all DVDs via component as well. To turn it back on just enter the code sequence again.

The MPAA has a silly rule that no DVD players are alowed to upconvert copy protected DVDs through component. There are several player that do alow this. Nessisary for people like me who have an older CRT HDTV ready display that has no DVI/HDMI conections on the back only component.

Please let me know if this works.

Thanks

For you that are asking about upconverting DVD players The only players that I know about that alow upconversion through component outputs are the LG 7832NXC and its twin the Zenith 318, the Samsung HD850 and possibly the 950. and a couple of other no-name brands that do not do a good job. Denon and many others will not alow upconversion through component unless the DVD is not copy protected and as 95% of DVD are this means that most will not work it will usualy kick your output back down to 480p as soon as you hit play.( if it even lets you try, some won't)

My Sammy HD841 upconverts over component and I have no complaints about the picture except some occasional shimmering on some DVD's when objects with vertical lines or checkered patterns are moving. I stopped using my DVI output due to black crush and macro blocking issues. The upconverting feature isn't important to me though because I prefer to send a 480p signal to my Sony RPT and let it do the upconversion.

Alright guys...what players do u want me to add to the list on the first page? Any threads that has description on those players?

I notice you show that the Samsung HD-841 is not a universal player. I believe universal means it plays both SACD's and DVD Audio Discs. The 841 plays both. I checked out the link to Samsung's product spec sheet and noticed they show an HD-950 upconverting universal player on their website. So this should probably be added to the list. Does anyone know where these can be purchased? Has anyone here bought one? I'd like to hear from anyone that has and get your opinion on it. Have the DVI PQ issues been addressed with this new model?

Alright guys...what players do u want me to add to the list on the first page? Any threads that has description on those players?
The Zenith is made by LG and is available still but may be tough as it has been out for over a year. I have to make 5 posts before I can include the links to their sites so I will as soon as I have.

I am looking at replacing my LG with a Samsung HD950 if it will alow upconversion through component out as the LG uses CDCi to do the upconversion and has the macroblocking problem in dark sceans. Aparently the Samsung uses a different chip to do this and I would like to know if it is better.

Does anyone know where these can be purchased? Has anyone here bought one? I'd like to hear from anyone that has and get your opinion on it. Have the DVI PQ issues been addressed with this new model?


I just got mine from Dell yesterday (look elswhere for cheaper prices, they're out there). I haven't done a whole lot of critical viewing or listening but I am happy with it so far. I haven't tried the HDMI to DVI connection but I can confirm that the upscale-over-component hack worked for me, which is the main reason I bought that model. HD DTV is already on the only DVI input on my Hitachi 51swx20b.

Star Wars epII looked marginally better through the 1080i component connection than the 480p. Very subtle, but I did tend to see a little more detail and black levels looked good (haven't tested though). I don't have much experience with hi-res audio but the Dark Side of the Moon SACD I've had laying around sounds great in multi-channel.

The only complaint I have so far is the front panel display is a freakin lighthouse. You can turn it off, but not down, and you have to do it everytime you turn on the player. Other than that I'm happy. And it's black! It's so damn hard to find a black player nowdays.

.... but I can confirm that the upscale-over-component hack worked for me, which is the main reason I bought that model. .... And it's black! It's so damn hard to find a black player nowdays.
Thank you Jonesy09 that was the information that I was looking for.
Black is one of the other reasons that I want the HD950. :)

....Any threads that has description on those players?
Well, here is the link to the LG firmware update to alow the LG DV7832NXC & its twin the Zenith DVB318 DVD Players to either repair the white crush problem via DVI or a second firmware fix to alow up coinversion via component. http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/experttips/michaeltlv/lg_dv7832_firmware.html
Here is also a review and bench test that was done by them. http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/experttips/michaeltlv/lg_dv7832_review.html

I called Samsung this afternoon and spoke with a level 2 tech support person regarding the issues with BTB, Macroblocking, and Sharpness over DVI with the model 841. He confirmed my suspicions that there will never be a firmware fix for these issues. He says the 841 uses the Faroudja processor and the 950 does not. I asked him what processor the 950 used and he said it was one designed by Samsung and wouldn't elaborate further but said it was designed to address the issues that the 841 had. I did mention that I was able to select 480p, 720p and 1080i as resolutions when viewing over component cables. Interestingly, he told me that this was a firmware glitch and that the player wasn't really sending those higher resolutions when selected. He was sure that the player was only sending the signal at 480p no matter what resolution I selected. Will the resolution hack mentioned a few posts earlier work on the 841? I think I'll give it a try tonight and see. I can always throw the firmware disc back in if it does something strange. I like the look of the 950 (black is beautiful). I hate that blue light around the power button on my 841 though and I presume the same blue light is present on the 950.

Does the 950 pass BTB over HDMI?

I called Samsung this afternoon and spoke with a level 2 tech support person regarding the issues with BTB, Macroblocking, and Sharpness over DVI with the model 841. He confirmed my suspicions that there will never be a firmware fix for these issues. He says the 841 uses the Faroudja processor and the 950 does not. I asked him what processor the 950 used and he said it was one designed by Samsung and wouldn't elaborate further but said it was designed to address the issues that the 841 had. I did mention that I was able to select 480p, 720p and 1080i as resolutions when viewing over component cables. Interestingly, he told me that this was a firmware glitch and that the player wasn't really sending those higher resolutions when selected. He was sure that the player was only sending the signal at 480p no matter what resolution I selected. Will the resolution hack mentioned a few posts earlier work on the 841? I think I'll give it a try tonight and see. I can always throw the firmware disc back in if it does something strange. I like the look of the 950 (black is beautiful). I hate that blue light around the power button on my 841 though and I presume the same blue light is present on the 950.

The 841 does not use the Faroudja processor (it uses a Vaddis chip). I've not tried upconversion through component on the 841 because I've long since returned mine. However, the upconversion hack on the 850 does allow it to pass the other resolutions. My TV does not accept 720p and could not handle 720 over component. It also locked aspect ratio on 1080i as it does for all 1080i signals.

I did mention that I was able to select 480p, 720p and 1080i as resolutions when viewing over component cables. Interestingly, he told me that this was a firmware glitch and that the player wasn't really sending those higher resolutions when selected. He was sure that the player was only sending the signal at 480p no matter what resolution I selected...........I like the look of the 950 (black is beautiful). I hate that blue light around the power button on my 841 though and I presume the same blue light is present on the 950.

That is interesting. I don't know much about the inner workings of digital devices but I do know that my Hitachi TV indicated 480p before the hack and 1080i after. Would the TV display a 'faked' resolution if 1080i was chosen on the DVD player, or does it only diplay what is actually sent?

I agree on the black issue (beware-there is still the large silver navigation control on the front panel, but I think that is actually a nice contrast). And the blue light is present on the 950, although my wife loves it..."It's got a blue light! I like it!"

It's not my TV that indicates which resolution is being sent to it. It only displays the final resolution that it's displaying. I was refering to the resolution that the DVD player was indicating on my TV screen. Interesting about the Vladdis chip. Damn it's hard to find knowledgeable tech service/customer service people these days. I'm very curious what the PQ is like over HDMI.

I don't have any personal experience with the Samsun HD950, but I can plat DVD + and - R and RW's on my HD841's, so I don't know why the 950 wouldn't do that now.

I used the hack on my HD-841. I got a message 'HDCP Free'. Does that mean I can get upconverted signal from component port?

Hmmm, I tried the hack last night on my HD-841 last night and it didn't work for me. I wonder what I'm doing wrong? I don't get the 'HDCP Free' or 'Disabled' message. I've always been able to cycle through the various available resolutions by pressing the 'DVI SEL' button on the remote. The player displays the selected resolution on my TV screen but I don't see any difference in PQ.

Get closer to the unit. You know the remote is slow on this one. I did it three times and it worked on third try.

I've noticed a few issues with my HD950 and was wondering if anyone else was having these problems.

I noticed that I have better video reproduction over my component cables at 480P than I do through the DVI cable at 480P or 1080i.
Video is full of noise on playback and I'm not sure what to do about it.

I just now did the Hack and it did say that HDCP free!, but I still can't get off my component I scan selection.

Has anyone else seen noise on their video playback? it shows up grainier (is that even a word?) on black sequences.
Any feedback would be helpful from the other HD950 owners.

Ok, I am now getting the component P upconvert signal (1080i) through my component cables. I had to manually hook up the DVI cable, set the component resolution, plug the component cables back in, and it is now good to go.
Picture quality seems to be a bit better over component cables on my setup.

How does everyone else fair in this category: DVI/HDMI vs. Component cable hook up on their system? specifically with the HD950

GrapeNuts-
What display are you using?

I used the hack on my HD-841. I got a message 'HDCP Free'. Does that mean I can get upconverted signal from component port?
Yes it should then alow all DVD's to upconvert through component.

If your display says that it is receiving a 1080i signal then it is (not what the DVD player says). On my Sony CRT RPTV I have to go into the service menu to tell if it is truly sending the 1080i signal otherwise there is no indication other then a slightly better picture.

On CRT based displays (IMOP the best HD displays out there) Component will usualy look better then DVI/HDMI because a CRT display is anologe not digital to begin with if you use the DVI/HDMI then the set has to convert the signal to anologe before it is displayed. DVD player D/A converters are usualy better then the display so it is usualy better to let it do the work rather then the display.

Jim,
I currently have the HD950 hooked up through Monster Component cables to my Yamaha RX-V2500 and then it is output to my Panasonic PT-56wx53 via Monster component cables set to 1080i signal. The TV is an older model and only supports 480P(i) and 1080i signals. video noise was terrible using 1080i playback through the HDMI-DVI output. It looks like most of the noise has dissapeared using the hack. It actually allows me to support displays at 768p as well now. Unfortunately, No 720p.

I used the hack on my HD-841. I got a message 'HDCP Free'. Does that mean I can get upconverted signal from component port?
Yes, it will also pass BTB over component.

Is anyone using the 950 with HDMI cable and been able to calibrate their display with the Avia disc or equivalent? If I buy this player it must pass BTB over HDMI and I don't want macroblocking. Currently I use component cables on my 841 because the DVI output PQ is terrible.

I tried again to do the hack for component cable upconversion. It isn't working for me. I'm supposed to sequentially press those buttons right? I've even tried going through the sequence at varying speeds but have had no luck at all. I'm only 4 feet away from the DVD player too.

I just did it again with my unit. Try 'power' then '4,3,2,7', you should see the screen respond with '43', then '27'. The 'HDCP Free' is shown on the screen. Good luck.

Scott, with the power off, press the power button on the remote. wait until the samsung display lights up and says "loading". Then press "angle" and go through the numbers. it will then display "HDCP free" after that, press angle once more to confirm the new setting and you should be set.
I am still getting grain in the picture, but it's much better than my DVI setup.

Hi guys! I have in the house right now a Samsung DVD-HD950 and a Panasonic DVD-S77S. Here is the upshot on what I see so far with my Panasonic 34" Widescreen HDTV (new model). Both DVD players were tested with the exact same TV settings first, using the same HDMI cable and Digital Coax cable.

While older films like Wrath of Khan do not compare to modern, more refined films, the older ones certainly separated the two DVD players. In a nutshell, macroblocking was present on several of my DVDs with the Panasonic DVD-S77S and not on the Samsung DVD-HD950. Obviously, the chipset is responsible for this bit of nastiness.

In case anyone was wondering, I sought out a few forums wondering what the hell this crawling crap was on my screen. I bought the Panasonic yesterday and the Samsung earlier today.

While school is still out on these two players, I suspect I’ll be going with the Samsung. Here is why I prefer the Samsung over the Panasonic:
_______________
Macroblocking issue

Sturdier tray design

Unit is silent while accessing disc/chapters (I could hear the Panasonic spinning up and down…not horrible, but I’ve never had a DVD player grab my attention that way)

Ability to completely turn off the unit display and the onscreen display

SACD compatible

All RCA cables fit better (snugger connection / very sloppy component connection on Panasonic…I’m not joking…the damn things kept coming off)

Finally…I just seemed to enjoy watching my new HDTV with the Samsung. The picture it produced keeps drawing me back to the sofa where the Panasonic seems a bit hard on my eyes and made them feel strained.
____________________

While the Panasonic is certainly a nice unit with a simpler, easier to use remote, but the pros for the Samsung far outweigh the cons. I will write back within 48 hours if I change my mind. I need to watch several movies on just the Samsung player for the next day or so and then go back to the Panasonic just to be sure there isn’t something I overlooked with the overall picture quality. Nothing is perfect…I’m just giving some opinions/preferences.

Thanks for your help shlin and grapenuts. I tried again and no luck with the hack. Strange. Anyways, overall I'm very happy with the PQ over component EXCEPT for an occasional shimmering on moving objects that have closely-spaced lines. The contrast and blackness level is actually very good over component 480p (no graininess to the picture at all/passes BTB - good detail).

Tempest714: I'm looking forward to your final report on your PQ over HDMI with the 950. I would really like to use this connection. Have you calibrated your display to the 950 using Avia or equivalent? It sounds promising that you are not seeing macroblocking over HDMI. So I'm very curious if this passes BTB.

Tempest714: I'm looking forward to your final report on your PQ over HDMI with the 950. I would really like to use this connection. Have you calibrated your display to the 950 using Avia or equivalent? It sounds promising that you are not seeing macroblocking over HDMI. So I'm very curious if this passes BTB.


Hi Dusterscott,

I'm in the middle of exchanging my Panasonic 34" Tau as it has developed a nasty high pitched squeal...can't deal with it...I hope the next one won't have this issue.

That being said, I spent several hours yesterday comparing both the Samsung DVD-HD950 and Panasonic DVD-S77S. In the end, I just couldn't deal with the Panasonic macroblocking issues. I went over the aerial-shot scenes in Twister several times with both players and countless settings on both the TV and DVD players. The big, green fields looked heinous with the Panasonic and were only marginally acceptable if I totally darkened and fuzzed the picture out. I was able to view the same scene with the Samsung on ridiculously bright settings and it was not an issue. Both players do yield a different picture, but macroblocking aside, I can’t say one is 'better' than the other.

I did confirm that the Samsung does play SACD through analog cables to the AVR…sounds great to me.

As far as blacker than black, I’m very new to this forum and am not sure exactly what you mean. If you are wondering whether the black bars seen during widescreen viewing are as black as the movie itself, yes they are. Please explain…I don’t have a Avia or equivalent calibration system.

Thanks Tempest. Avia is actually a calibration dvd you can buy to calibrate your tv's display with. Every dvd player and video source outputs a different PQ so it's important to calibrate your tv's display to compensate for this. The Avia dvd has various test screens that you can use to correctly adjust your brightness, contrast, color, hue and sharpness to NTSC standards. With some DVD players, you won't be able properly adjust your tv's PQ, including brightness (black level). As you adjust brightness down to the correct level, if you're dvd player won't pass blacks darker than a certain shade, you won't be able to correctly calibrate your display and you won't be able to distinguish between different shades of black while watching dvd's. You'd be missing out in a lot of detail. The Avia dvd also has test tones you can use to calibrate your sound system with. You would also need to purchase a sound meter (around $40) in order to do this.

Anyways, the 841 won't pass BTB through a DVI cable. I get macroblocking through the DVI cable too. I wasn't able to calibrate my display to NTSC standards. When I connected my 841 to my TV with component cables, I was able to correctly calibrate my display. But I'd really like to buy a DVD player that is capable of sending a good quality picture to my tv over DVI or HDMI. So that's why I'm so interested in the PQ of the 950. Before I shell out the money for this unit, I want to make sure that the PQ issues that I've had with the 841 have been resolved in the 950. If I could find a location that sells this player locally, I'd just go see firsthand for myself.

Thanks Scott! It looks like I can get it locally and will pick one up before my 'new' TV gets delivered. It sounds like something I should own considering the money and time I'm putting into my ht. Once everything is in place (Tuesday), I will start calibrating and see what I come up with.

Much appreciated! I'll be looking forward to hearing how this performs for you!

I've only read the past two pages of posts so I'm not sure how helpful my comments will be.
I have been unable to get the HD 950 to pass blacker than black on HDMI, using the DVE DVD. My 5 year old Sony DVD player has no problem passing B/B. The DVD Plunge with gray scale test pattern is almost useless with the 950. It's almost impossible to resolve any of the bars. I ended up using the "reverse gray ramps & steps" test pattern on the DVE DVD. I was able to adjust the 950 to resolve all but the last two black bars. The white bars were all viewable.
Other than the B/B issue I like the player.
Based on what I read a few posts back, I'll try to get B/B over component.

I am having a Toshiba 46HM94 delivered today. I currently have a Sony DVP NS575 as my DVD player. I was told that my DVD's would look better with an upconverting player so I searched the net and found several forums and threads discussing upconverting players but there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer. Of course not, as display equipment varies as well as viewing preferences and perception. That said, I was told that macroblocking issues are primarily limited to plasma displays. That is not the understanding I have based on what I've read. I've also read about upconverting through component vs HDMI, but it seems to me that the first choice is HDMI and it that doesn't look good to try component?

So here is my question, I'd like to purchase an upconverting player to test whether the PQ would be an improvement over the 575. Ideally it would have a HDMI output. What would you recommend?

I also have a Sony STR DE597 receiver. I'm assuming that I connect the HDMI output from the DVD player directly to the Toshiba but route the audio through my receiver. Secondly, if I use the component output from the DVD player, I connect to the receiver first and then from the receiver to the Toshiba?

Thanks in advance,

Roy

The HD 950 will pass blacker than black but only for 480i over component. The setup menu disables the black level option for all outputs except 480i. I confirmed this, using DVE.

Your observations are a great help. Thanks! I've had the same issue with the model 841 so I definitely won't be purchasing the 950 now. My picture looks pretty good over component actually. I was hoping that Samsung would have resolved this issue with the DVI/HDMI PQ by now. I've been keeping an eye on the Oppo threads and waiting for the lip sync issue to be resolved. I know I wouldn't be able to put up with any lip sync problems so I'm holding off until they resolve this issue. PQ is apparently very good with the Oppo over HDMI.

sactoroy:

I feed all of my video sources to the tv and all of my audio sources directly to my receiver. I use my tv to switch video sources and my receiver to switch my audio sources.

. . . That said, I was told that macroblocking issues are primarily limited to plasma displays. That is not the understanding I have based on what I've read. I've also read about upconverting through component vs HDMI, but it seems to me that the first choice is HDMI and it that doesn't look good to try component?

So here is my question, I'd like to purchase an upconverting player to test whether the PQ would be an improvement over the 575. Ideally it would have a HDMI output. What would you recommend?



Although it is reported that macroblock enhance is display dependent, it is in no way limited to plasmas.

Your 575 may give you a satisfactory picture on your new display, but if you are interested in trying HDMI upconversion, you might try the Sony DVP-NS975V if you can find it. It does not use Faroudja, so no macroblocking. There were reports of a tray lock problem, but those problems may be fixed with later models.

I have a Toshiba 32HF73 and I've been looking at upscaling players, but I've also see people who've said that you shouldn't bother unless you have a bigger screen. i.e. I wouldn't see much change in picture quality.

Is this true?

Brian

I posted this in another thread, but since I see discussion of similar issues here I thought I would post it again. I apologize if this is annoying, but I thought others might want to know about it.

Here it is:

Hey guys

I just received my SS HLR 6168 yesterday, and hooked up my new 950 out of the box. I used Harry Potter POA as my first disk, as I really thought it looked amazing on my older SonyCRT HDTV with 480p Sony DVD player.

I was underwhelmed, to say the least.

Maybe I just had higher expectations of the set and the DVD player, especially since they are supposed to be the "best" Samsung makes right now.

Everything was muddy on the display. There was no detail to the blacks whatsoever. For instance, in the scene where Lupin teaches the kids about the Boggard, and Ron's turns into a black spider, it was one solid black color. The only highlights were a muddy grey blob which pixelated between grey and the black body of the spider. On my old display it was like watching an actual film.

I played with the different settings - standard was too blue and cool for my tastes, and movie was more warm but a slightly better picture.

Detail was almost non-existant. I thought I was watching a VCR upconverted over composite video. I couldn't believe my 5 year old CRT and 480p Sony were better than my new 1080p TV and 1080i upconverting DVD player.

I tried SW AOTC as another reference disk, and while it looked better than HP:POA, it by no means impressed me. I've read on here that people are so impressed with an upconverting player over HDMI that I really expected a better performance.

Do you all think I've got a defective unit?

BTW, HDTV over cable looks stunning. I can't believe how sharp and clear things are on the TV. Even SD cable looks pretty good. DVDs just don't. (BTW, I tried the same movies over component and it looked even worse).

I'm going to try my old Sony 480p player tonight to see if it makes any difference.

Paul,

I have the model 841 and I believe your 950 is the next generation universal player from Samsung. My experience with the 841 is the same as yours - over DVI. Try using component cables with this player - you'll see a big improvement I'm sure. Personally I'm searching for a reasonably-priced player that will upconvert over DVI or HDMI and has good PQ. I've got my eye on the Oppo but am waiting for them to resolve some lip synch issues. PQ is apparently very good with that player.

I own an OPPO and a Bravo D1. The Bravo D1 has been tempramental lately, so I bougth the OPPO. The lip sinc problem was very minor. I have sent it in for the upgrade. Should get it back tomorrow--I'll let you folks know how it turned out. Both the OPPO and the Bravo D1 have given me excellent PQ over DVI on my Samsung 720p DLP. For $200, OPPO provides its player with a choice of a DVI-DVI cable or a DVI-HDMI cable.
My experience with Samsung DVD players has not been so good! I have gotten very unsatisfactory pictures with two differet Samsung players that I have had in my home. I was very dissappointed with the 841 model and immediately took it back to the store. I do not believe that Samsung has really tried to resolve the Black Crush issue. They must be spending all of their time on their other products. I was really surprized--because I expected it to work great with my Samsung TV. I understand that on some TVs that black crush is no big deal--well, it was on mine. The picture was just big blotches of black with good detail only in the brighter parts of the picture.

anyone using the 950 via hdmi-dvi??? does it still have the black crush problem?

i thought early reports of this model suggested it DID pass blacker than black, or at least had a lot less black crush than the 841 (which looks horrendous on my projector with hdmi-dvi).

i'll be really disappointed if the 950 looks just as bad...

oleus

Oleus,

I believe Vandu has tried to get a decent PQ with the 950 over DVI/HDMI and was not successful. He posted closer to the top of this page. I've given up on the 950 - heard enough. I already have a model 841 that looks acceptable 99% of the time over component and sucks over DVI.

HiHO,

The 2910 will not upconvert over component, only DVI/HDMI.
Do you own the 2910? Do you still need to know how to check the firmware?

i have a 2910 and regardless of anything, i can't get it to tell me what the firmware version is.
i've scoured these forums and others- all of the directions for getting it are the same.
i'd appreciate any insight!

-gabe

Much appreciated! I'll be looking forward to hearing how this performs for you!

Hi dusterscott,

Just wanted to let you know I returned the Samsung DVD-HD950. I just couldn't deal with all of the quirks associated with the player and it was just not possible with my HD CRT to get the picture acceptable.

I know this sounds nuts considering it's track record, but I picked up a Sony DVP-NS575 for around $250. It has a great picture on my TV and Avia led me to calibrate the TV to almost the identical setting on the TV called ‘Cinema’. At the moment, I’m really happy with the unit and hope it stays healthy. It’s firmware is the 1.90, so I at least have that on my side. So far, so good.

Thanks! I've given up on the 950. I'll keep the 841 for SACD and DVD-A and will be making my decision very soon on what I'll be buying for watching DVD's.

I've got my eye on the Oppo but am waiting for them to resolve some lip synch issues. PQ is apparently very good with that player.[/QUOTE]

I received my upgraded OPPO. The upgrade does address the lip synch problem. Settings are user adjustable by delaying the audio signal to match the video signal (several settings are available--and they work) The picture quality is oustanding. One note to anyone who has a Samsung DLP. The DVI switch on the remote control is set on 480P. For some reason, 480P does not work with my Samsung DLP (it will show the message on screen "Not supported mode"). I had to stop the disk from playing and press the DVI switch until it toggled to 540p, then 720p, then 1080i. I set it on 720p for the DLP. The PQ is outstanding. Before the upgrade, it was impossible to completely shut off the sharpness control--with the upgrade, the sharpness control is turned off by default (but can still be turned on and adjusted by the user)--this gives a very pleasing picture for some of my older DVDs (specifically "The Music Man" and "Brigham City"). I am very impressed with the upgrades. I highly recommend the OPPO player. For $200 (including a DVI cable)--it is hard to beat. I have not seen a player that performs any better.

Al,

What version of firmware are you running?

How do I check and see what version I have?

Thanks

I updated my OPPO with the latest Firmware which was released on June 29, 2005. It is version: OP971-8-0628. Detailed info can be found at www.oppodigital.com/opdv971h_support.html. My understanding is that all new OPPO DVD players shipped after 6/29/2004 are distributed with this firmware. Quoting from the website:
Q: How do I find out the firmware version of the OPDV971H DVD Player?
A: Do the following to find out the firmware version:
1) Press Setup on the remote controller
2) Enter 9210 on the remote controller
3) A menu will pop up to show the firmware version of the OPPO player.

Thanks Al, I just checked mine and it shows as

Op971-9-0628B

Lunch,

With the device turned off press Open/Close and Play at the same time, turn the device on, wait 3 seconds then press 3,2,6,5 and the menu button will cycle through the firmware info.

John

I am about to send the Oppo back. As much as I love this player, the frequent lip-sync issues are becoming to distracting for me.

Is there another player out there that doesn;t suffer from lip-sync and offers similar functionality? I am interested in any/all of these features, in order of preference (Oppo has all of these):

1.) DVI output
2.) Upconverting to 720p
3.) Ability to make region free (therefore PAL/SECAM/NTSC compatibility)
4.) 120V/240V compatibility out of the box

For you that have a Samsung HD 950 I am still wondering if the blacker than black level is bad with the component out after the HDCP has been disabled alowing it to upconvert over component? As I will not be using DVI/HDMI to conect it to my display only component.

If my 841's performance is any indication, it can pass BTB over component. The 950 replaced the 841.

[QUOTE=brotherman]I am about to send the Oppo back. As much as I love this player, the frequent lip-sync issues are becoming to distracting for me.

Before you give up on the OPPO, call customer support and have them walk you through the Audio Delay feature of the upgrade. Customer support explained to me that the audio signal is processed more quickly than the video signal and that it might be necessary to delay the audio signal so that it matches the video signal. They suggested 10 ms delay. I experimented and decided on 20 ms. Initially, I thought that I was not getting a precise lip sync, until I watched a TV show and observed the lip sync on it; also, watch the lip sync on another DVD player (after you've made the delay adjustment on the OPPO). I found that I was able to adjust the lip sync to be as good as observed on other devices. Now that I realize that the lip sync is as close as other devices, I am not bothered by it at all.

I am about to send the Oppo back. As much as I love this player, the frequent lip-sync issues are becoming to distracting for me.

Is there another player out there that doesn;t suffer from lip-sync and offers similar functionality? I am interested in any/all of these features, in order of preference (Oppo has all of these):

1.) DVI output
2.) Upconverting to 720p
3.) Ability to make region free (therefore PAL/SECAM/NTSC compatibility)
4.) 120V/240V compatibility out of the boxConsider the Bravo D2, mine has no noticable lip-sync delay, but no voltage switching.

Al, I spoke with support and they suggested the same thing. The delay fix can work if you always have lip-sync issues. Mine are intermittent. When I tried the delay, I actually introduced lip-sync issues where I didn't have them before.

Consider the Bravo D2, mine has no noticable lip-sync delay, but no voltage switching.

Thank you Jim, I'll look into it. Is it region free?

Thank you Jim, I'll look into it. Is it region free?
Not unless there is a hack, but not aware of one.

Quote: Consider the Bravo D2, mine has no noticable lip-sync delay, but no voltage switching.

Quote: Al, I spoke with support and they suggested the same thing. The delay fix can work if you always have lip-sync issues. Mine are intermittent. When I tried the delay, I actually introduced lip-sync issues where I didn't have them before.

I haven't used the OPPO long enough to see these effects on my unit; however, I can state that I have had a Bravo D1 for over a year. It has a beautiful picture and I have never seen a lip sync problem. However, it is now very temperamental when loading disks. Sometimes I have to turn the unit off and on several times before it will load a disk. It will also sometimes drop the digital sound and sometimes skips portions of a movie. I assume that some of this has been fixed in the Bravo D2--but then again I might have had a finicky unit. I hope that my OPPO doesn't display intermittent lip sync problems as you have reported. Best Wishes. P.S. If the OPPO doesn't work out for me, I plan to purchase a Bravo D2.

Hi all,

Been reading through the overwhelming information on this thread, and have come to the resolution that I need to purchase either the Oppo or the HD-950. Just wanted to get your feedback on this.

Set-up : new Samsung DLP HLR5067W (love it !)
I'm already using the 1 HDMI input on the TV for my Directv HD Tivo and would prefer to dedicate the HDMI for that. Leaves the component inputs for my DVD player. From everything I've read here, if I want to upconvert via component, the best bet would by the HD-950 applying the well-described hack on this thread. I just was curious if that would be the consensus here.

I was quite disappointed with my Harman-Kardon DVD players' performance on my new Samsung. I know it doesn't up-convert, but I was definitely hoping for more.

Please let me know if I'm heading down the right trail with the HD-950 over the Oppo. Thanks !

If you want to use component cables I believe the consensus is you don't want to go with the Oppo. My Samsung 841 looks great over component and I imagine it's replacement, the 950, would have a similar PQ. My only complaint is occasional shimmering of closely-spaced lines which might be partly my display's fault too or certain DVD's. I have yet to get into my TV's service menu and tweak the set's sharpness.

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm pretty much settled on the Samsung - only question is whether or not to go to local CC or BB and pick up the 841 or order online to get the 950. I've got to assume that the 950 would be the better choice being the newer model, but I really wish it was available locally (just in case I end up returning it).

It's interesting you mention the shimmering because that's the exact reason I'm looking to replace my Harmon/Kardon DVD player. The shimmering on that player via the component cables into my Samsung is just ridiculous.

I'm happy with the PQ I'm getting with the 841 over component 99.5% of the time. Around here they are out of 841's in BB or CC. Ebay?

Scott,

I'd defer to your expertise on this, so what I'm hearing from you is that if I can get the 841 locally at a reasonable price, I won't see a significant difference in quality between the 841 and 950 ? Also, I think I read that the 841 can definitely have the 'hack' applied to up-convert via component cables - not sure if thats the case with the 950 ? Also, will the 841 provide the same performance with my new Samsung compared to the 950 ?

Have you considered an HDMI switcher? It allows you to switch between 2 HDMI sources (DVI if you use DVI-HDMI adaptors or adaptor cables) if you only have one input on your TV. I paid $200 for a Lenexpo switcher. It works well and has a remote. Then if you needed to buy cables you'd have to figure that cost in too. Just a thought. Then you could buy the Oppo and use the DVI output for excellent PQ. I order my Oppo 2 days ago.

Have you considered an HDMI switcher? It allows you to switch between 2 HDMI sources (DVI if you use DVI-HDMI adaptors or adaptor cables) if you only have one input on your TV. I paid $200 for a Lenexpo switcher. It works well and has a remote. Then if you needed to buy cables you'd have to figure that cost in too. Just a thought. Then you could buy the Oppo and use the DVI output for excellent PQ. I order my Oppo 2 days ago.

I did indeed kick around the idea of a switcher, but I thought that getting the Samsung with the up-convert hack via component would be at least close to the quality of HDMI. My other option is to buy the Oppo and go HDMI and move my Directv-HD Tivo over to component rather than using HDMI for that.

Scott,

I'd defer to your expertise on this, so what I'm hearing from you is that if I can get the 841 locally at a reasonable price, I won't see a significant difference in quality between the 841 and 950 ? Also, I think I read that the 841 can definitely have the 'hack' applied to up-convert via component cables - not sure if thats the case with the 950 ?

I don't believe you'll see a significant difference in PQ between the 841 and 950. I can't speak from personal experience on the 950 but I've read other members' posts. Most people have successfully been able to apply the hack to the 841 but I haven't been able to. BUT - the player has always allowed me to change resolutions when viewing over component. I don't see a noticeable change in PQ when switching between the various resolutions. So I just leave it set at 480p and let the TV upconvert to my native resolution.

So I just leave it set at 480p and let the TV upconvert to my native resolution.

Not to sound too dumb, but what's the native resolution of the HLR5067W ?

Oops, scratch that. Duh. It's 1080P, correct ?

Now I'm really puzzled. If the native resolution is at 1080P, should that change my mind as far as which up-convert DVD player I should get......

720p

Now you've got me baffled :confused:

I went to the Samsung page for this model at Samsung HL-R5078W Specs (http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?prod_id=HLR5078WX%252fXAA) and it seems to indicate that its 1080P ??

You said you had a 5067 above.

My bad. I'm at work so I think I got the model #'s confused. I think my first model was the correct one, i.e. 5067 not 5078. Just not sure exactly which one I got.....

Dear All,

The first post said our AVeL LinkPlayer "AVLP2/DVDLA" was one of upconverting DVD players. But that's wrong unfortunately. AVLP2/DVDLA can play 720p/1080i high definition videos, but cannot upconvert 480p DVD to 720p. It doesn't have DVI/HDMI output.

However, SRDVD-100U, will be sold by JVC from Sep 2005, can do.
http://www.iodata.com/usa/products/products.php?cat=HNP&sc=AVELK&ts=2&tsc=&sc=AVELK&pId=SRDVD-100U

Also this is for your information. Now the special deal ($50 mail-in-rebate) is available named "upgrade to LinkPlayer campaign" for upconverting DVD player owners. Someone may have some interests.
http://shop.iodata.com/help/SummerPromotion05.php

Thank you.

The TV upconverts everything to 720p so should I buy a 480p or 720p DVD player or will the picture be comparable to what I'm seeing now. If I can do better what would you all recommend as far as DVD players go?

Folks,

I don't have time to do the research right now--but I am certain that I read reviews of the 850 that stated that even though it did not do super on DVI, it was one of the best DVD players anywhere on Component 480p output. As for me, I have a HLN507W DLP that gives a good picture on DVI but a degraded picture on Component. I also have experienced that this monitor does not do the best job of converting from 480 to 720p. I therefore have experienced much better PQ thru an upconvert player that converts the 480 to 720p before sending it to my DLP. I highly recommend a good upconvert player.

It's got to be easier than what I'm doing!

While picture quaility is subjective, I am trying to figure out:

1) which is a better connection, Component or HDMI
2) can upscale be done over Component and HDMI
3) the tv can be set to 540p and 1080i. which to use

At this point I can't see any difference in picture quaility. I figured
I would see some kind of PQ difference and choose the best one.

HELP!

It's got to be easier than what I'm doing!

While picture quaility is subjective, I am trying to figure out:

1) which is a better connection, Component or HDMI
2) can upscale be done over Component and HDMI
3) the tv can be set to 540p and 1080i. which to use

At this point I can't see any difference in picture quaility. I figured
I would see some kind of PQ difference and choose the best one.

HELP!
Ok, 1) aparently the Samsung HD950 is better used with component this is because the below black level only passes with the component out also the Samsung has a reputation to have one of the best 480i outputs via component on the market.
2) Upconversion can be done with both but you must apply the key sequence in order to alow this through component. (mentioned earlier in this thread).
3) As 540p is only extended definition you would be better using the 1080i setting. Because 720p and 1080i are the only HD resulutions available right now.
540p may be better to use if watching sports or fast moving video but thats it.

Another problem I see with my OPPO. The PQ is great except when you get a nonanamorphic widescreen picture and use the format button to upscale the picture to fit the screen. The picture shimmers so much that it is uncomfortable to view. I checked out my Bravo D1 and saw that there was no jitter or shimmer on upscaling. Here again, I only see the shimmer when I attempt to upscale with the OPPO. One thing positive to say about the OPPO. The digital sound output is fantastic! Also it has a beautiful PQ as long as it is not upscaled.

I have tried 6 times to get the

angle
4,3,2,7
angle

to work but no luck.
I wait for load to appear on screen then enter the code
and no message comes up.

Ideas?

I remember hearing someone say that if you enable the upconversion via component that you should not use HDMI. You need to aply the so called hack with the DVD player hooked up with component cables and there is a setting in the menu that needs to be changed. As I do not have a HD950 yet I do not know. I plan to get one in September.

The hack has taken effect now. I pushed the buttons faster and the message HDCP Free came up.
I rotated through the HDMI SEL on the remote and changed the setting to 1080i. Now the Virtual HD setting on the tv(540p/1080i) is disabled which leads me to believe that the hack is working. Does this sound correct?

Yes It is now working right. I am curious how the picture looks upconverted over component. Let us know when you have done some comparisons.

Al, I spoke with support and they suggested the same thing. The delay fix can work if you always have lip-sync issues. Mine are intermittent. When I tried the delay, I actually introduced lip-sync issues where I didn't have them before.

Brotherman,

I have now experienced the same problem with my OPPO. The lip sync problems are reintroduced with different disks. Too much hastle. Today, I ordered a Bravo D2 from Ebay--brand new for $200. I hope some of the rest of the folks have better success with the OPPO than I have.

So ....After reading 29 pages of this thread (more like a spool!?) I'm STILL twisted, confused and torn between what to purchase. (I'm much more fluent in a lingo that very few store pesonnel speak)

I want an upconverting DVD player to enhance my viewing of DVD's on a large plasma TV. I have a Panny TH-50PX50U and given it's cost, I'm already commited to that display for a while.


I'm a relatively newbie: I don't know all the tweaks and I don't speak a lot of the lingo yet (getting better)


I've tried some low end upconverters: Tosh 5980, and an LG who's model I forget and not been pleased with the HDMI upconversion qualities.

Sam. 950 series has pros: little/no MB, but seems to have other issues woven among this thread.

Pan s97, s77 still big MB issue, otherwise well regarded?

Oppo: lip synch issues (like the back street boys?)

Denon: cost high, not a clear winner in technology either

Sony 975's - Good, some color adjustment issues, and lately a lot of warranty repair / replace issues.

So I'm asking for some comments:

1. Is there any clearer way to decide? are some features more important than others? Personally, I want a crisp image, good colors, tones, shading over a range of light and movie types. I won't be watching this is a totally black home theater, I use my living room and it has windoes.

2. HD DVD still seems a ways off, but one can sit in a cave and wait for fire to be invented too. So, Is it better to wait for HD and make due with 720 (component) and a better quality picture dvd player than to jump into an "upconverter" DVD (HDMI) that really has flaws?

3. I'm almost fully convinced that there isn't one clear winner in this DVD discussion. Anyone want to refute that?

THanks !!

I just received my Oppo a couple of days ago and have been using it heavily. It has an excellent PQ and sound quality, menu navigation is quick, and I don't see the lip synch issue. You really can't go wrong for $200. You can always return it within 30 days if you are one of the ones with a lip synch issue. I've only had one DVD give me a problem so far (pauses momentarily once every couple of minutes) but it's a bootleg.

So what's the concensus on the best PQ-player for going DVI (converted HDMI) at 720P? Right now I've got the Momitsu running 720P DVI into my BenQ 8700+ DLP projector, and I'm wondering if there's a player out that that could give me an even better picture.

I can keep the Momitsu around for region free and PAL playback if needed, if the "better" player didn't offer this. However, I want to upscale ALL playback to 720P via DVI on my PJ regardless of the content's flagging.

Still working my way through this thread. Anyone want to help me get to the answer?

dave :)

I'm looking for a high quality DVD player that outputs to HDMI in high-def, and S-Video in standard def simultaneously. The one I currently have can only output one source at a time, and if more than one is hooked up, will always default to the higher quality output. I also need to make sure that the digital and analog sound outputs will work simultaneously.

Anyone know if there's a unit out there that'll do the trick?

Hi,
If you can still find one the LG DV7832NXC and its twin the Zenith DVB318 are a good buy. They output simataniously video and audio through all outputs. These two players do have some issues one beeing that if you choose to use DVI out then you need to apply a firmware update and if you chose to upconvert through component you need to apply a different update. Also the 480p, 720p outputs suck on these units. But it shines at 1080i particularly using the upconverted firmware via Component (even better then DVI). Some people have seen a problem with the picture being shifted to the left using front projection units but I have not had this problem with mine. The S-Video looks great (408i) and the audio works out of both digital and anologe at the same time. There is also a region free hack for these players.

For a couple of reasons I would like to use a sammy 931 and upconvert via component to a Hitachi projector
.
After reading thru the manuel and this thread I am a little confused.

Will the 931 display 720 or 1080 via the component and if so, Does the component hack "pwr-angle-4237 angle" work on the 931 or is even supported.

I had this unit sitting around but can not find the remote so I downloaded the codes from Remote Central onto a pronto. I can not get it to respond with the 4327 so I assume that it is not accepting the command.


I not, anyone have a recommendation on an good converter via component ?

Thx in advance.

I always wondered if up-converted dvd signal is HD or not. As many of you will say that its not really HD as its 720x480 signal. So why do I have to deal with HDCP issue on DVI/HDMI outputs on these players.

Sonisame

Sonisame,

by definition a signal that's 1280 x 720 or 1920 x 1080 is hi-def. So if I take a (standard def) 720 x 480 DVD image and *up-convert* it to 1280 x 720...then I've just turned the DVD *into* a hi-def signal.

What folks mean when they say "it's not hi-def" is that since the signal started life out as a plain-old DVD image, that even though you've done the math to upconvert it to HD resolution...that the quality of the image isn't as clear or as sharp as "real" hi-def images that started life already at 1280 x 720 or above. And that's true.

But in technical terms, a 1280 x 720 signal is Hi-def...even if it's just a white screen, according to your display and video chain.

As many of you will say that its not really HD as its 720x480 signal.

It started out that way on your DVD, but *after* up-converting, you've turned it into a 1280 x 720 or a 1920 x 1080 HD image...that's what upconverting means. When folks argue about whether it's really "hi-def" they're talking about the visual quality of the scaling results...not whether a 1280 x 720 image is technically "hi-def" as far your equipment is concerned.

make sense?

I just received my Oppo a couple of days ago and have been using it heavily. It has an excellent PQ and sound quality, menu navigation is quick, and I don't see the lip synch issue. You really can't go wrong for $200. You can always return it within 30 days if you are one of the ones with a lip synch issue. I've only had one DVD give me a problem so far (pauses momentarily once every couple of minutes) but it's a bootleg.

Just to update my last posting, I have found two DVD's that give me an audio/video synchronization problem. "Genesis - Live at Wembley Stadium" and "Eagles - Farewell I Tour". I've watched about 20 concert DVD's and movies so far with the Oppo and these are the only two DVD's that have given me a problem. It's very annoying with concert DVD's when you experience it. Aside from that, I see a very slight amount of macroblocking in very dark scenes but the stunning picture quality more than makes up for it.

Thanks David
That makes sense.

Sonisame

Just to update my last posting, I have found two DVD's that give me an audio/video synchronization problem. "Genesis - Live at Wembley Stadium" and "Eagles - Farewell I Tour". I've watched about 20 concert DVD's and movies so far with the Oppo and these are the only two DVD's that have given me a problem. It's very annoying with concert DVD's when you experience it. Aside from that, I see a very slight amount of macroblocking in very dark scenes but the stunning picture quality more than makes up for it.

What's you TV or projector?

I actually bought the Panasonic S97 and the OPPO 971 -- I have had HD projector (Panasonic PTL500) and recently replace my old RP 4.3 TV with a Sony 60XS

I have tried the 2 DVD players on each display

did the DVE and AVIA setup thing on each

I really like the Panny S97 best of the 2 on both displays, especialy on the big Sony.

The OPPO is good on both, better on the Sony, but if I keep it it will stay on the projector

The Panny looks good on component and HDMI out - the OPPO component out is not so good while it's DVI out is pretty good


The panny remote is good, the black oppo remote is kinda sucky - very hard to see in darkened room -- need to be backlight badly

I'm still not so sure on the OPPO, may use it until I can try a Denon 3910

I have a Sony 50" LCD Grand Wega rear projection, model KF-50WE610.

I currently have the Zenith DVB318. I'm just not that thrilled with it. I've read some great reviews on the Oppo and have thought of getting the Oppo to replace the Zenith. Just looking for some opinions. Should I see a difference switching to the Oppo?

I also would like the DVD-Audio support of the Oppo, but have not read any reviews that say much about the performance of it's DVD-Audio.

If I were to keep the Zenith I thought about getting a Pioneer Elite DV-45A($350 locally) for its DVD-Audio and SACD support. I would appreciate any opinions on this also.

TV: Hitachi 57S500 DVI and Component inputs.

Pre/Pro: Outlaw 990 DVI and Component inputs.

For good DVD Audio and SACD capability and a pretty good picture over component cables my Sammy 841 has served me well. I bet you could find a fairly good deal on a used one. PQ with the Oppo is excellent except for occasional very minor macroblocking. They are still working on the audio/video sync issue. It's been a problem with me on 2 out of 20 DVD's so far.

I have the Zenith dvb318 as well as the Sony 975 and I can tell you the Sony is the clear winner. The Sony's picture is rock solid and I have had absolutely no problems with it. I have had it since it very first came out and it seems much better built than the Zenith. The Zenith had a little bit better color accuracy out of the box but after tweaking I really prefer the picture the Sony gives me.
Very solid build quality, no macro-blocking, good video processing, awesome upconversion and nice features on the Sony. I highly recommend it.
The Zenith dvb318 is also very, very good. But I find the macro-blocking very annoying.

I currently have the Zenith DVB318. I'm just not that thrilled with it. I've read some great reviews on the Oppo and have thought of getting the Oppo to replace the Zenith. Just looking for some opinions. Should I see a difference switching to the Oppo?
The Zenith/LG have only one excelant output and that is at 1080i via component once the firmware update has been applied. If you are using DVI out then you also need to make sure that you have the proper firmware installed to fix the "white crush" problem as there are two firmware updates available.
The Zenith/LG have lousy output at 480p and 720p if you are using these then yes it would look very bad. The 480i via S-Video is good but most people do not use this output and would be pointless to have this player.

I bought an Oppo a few weeks ago from Amazon and I'm extremely happy with it. I replaced my Sammy 841 and can tell a difference in the black levels now. It's definitely a keeper.

What would be the best player that out puts at 720P? I have the LG and have to admit that the 480p and 720p are pretty bad...

I really need some help. I have a toshiba 46HM94 and really love but wanted to go to upconverting DVD player. I have followed the forums for a long time and settled on the Panasonic DVD-S97. Waited forever for it to be in stock and just got it last week. So I get it home and hook it up, and I cannot get a signal over HDMI. All I get is a flashing green screen and the code U70-3. Looked it up on this forum and spoke to panny, and the code means either faulty cable, too short... Panasonic told me to try a different HDMI cable. So I buy a new cable, hook it up and the same green screen and error message shows up. The player looks good with component, but I spent the money for HDMI. In various threads people have either been able to get this to work but no one has posted how, if at all, they were able to get his player to work. Anyone else with the same HDTV care to share their problems, thoughts, etc....
I am about to return this unit and start my research over.
Please help, what do I need to do to get this to work?

Anyone tried the Sony DVD/SACD changer (985) that upconverts via HDMI ? How does PQ compare with the Zenith 318 which I currently own. Thanks.

i'd like to know the answer too

What would be the best player that out puts at 720P? I have the LG and have to admit that the 480p and 720p are pretty bad...

I have an OPPO and a VINC Bravo D2 -- both provide excellent PQ for my Samsung HLN50W 720p DLP. I get better PQ with these players than I get on many so-called HDTV broadcast movies. It is my opinion that you cannot get a better picture out of any other player. There might be some just as good. But the PQ on these players is limited only by the PQ on the DVD itself.

I have an OPPO and a VINC Bravo D2 -- both provide excellent PQ for my Samsung HLN50W 720p DLP... It is my opinion that you cannot get a better picture out of any other player. There might be some just as good. But the PQ on these players is limited only by the PQ on the DVD itself.

I really hope you meant this as a joke. There are significan't differences in the PQ of these players and other better players. Not sure how critical you are, but the differences can be seen on your display. If you blow the picture up to 8 feet wide, you would be amazed at the difference between players. I've tried both of these and you could not pay me to use either one as the softness and lack of detail between these and better players or a lumagen scaler was so significant my wife could tell the difference!

Dave

Eww...it failed the universally recognized Wife Perception Test :)

I received my NeuNeo HVD2085 last week. It was risky buying it without hands on experience, but I wanted an upconverting unit to demo some of the new HDTVs coming out. I took the 2085 up to BestBuy last week and asked If I could hook it up to a few sets. Unfortunately I did not have an HDMI cable and they had no spares, so I tested with component only.

I started with a new Sony E50A10 LCD projection set that was hooked up to a new Sony upscaling DVD player. The Sony picture looked real average to me. When I connected the 2085, the screen became much shrper with vibrant colors! At this point the Electronics Department manager came over to watch what we were doing, so I switched back and forth between the two DVD players. He let out a big gasp! He was very impressed with this unit.

We then moved it over to a new Toshiba 46HM95. Once the two units got synched on the right settings, the picture looked fantastic. I couldn't tell what resolution mode I was in. I just cycled through the choices with the remote until the Toshiba had a display. There's just not enough time to come up to speed with all of the possible settings on the new sets.
(As a side note: the new Toshibas have incredible blacks almost too black, but the new HD4 chip with its horizontal wobulation gave me a headache. It seems strange to me that just when we are getting out of interlaced video and moving into progressive scan the manufacturers are moving backwards from fixed-pixel into this wobulation scheme because its cheaper.)

Eww...it failed the universally recognized Wife Perception Test :)

Trust me, she is my serious benchmark. If SHE can see the difference, there is a BIG difference. :D

Hello Everyone, I am looking for a DVD player that can up-convert vie component. I will be running an HD cable box, an Xbox 360 and a DVD player all thru my new receiver. That will be running to my Screenplay 4805. Please let me know, I like denon but I can’t get a straight answer from anybody about the component out? I also keep hearing about the panny s97, will this up convert via component??

Hello Everyone, I am looking for a DVD player that can up-convert vie component. I will be running an HD cable box, an Xbox 360 and a DVD player all thru my new receiver. That will be running to my Screenplay 4805. Please let me know, I like denon but I can’t get a straight answer from anybody about the component out? I also keep hearing about the panny s97, will this up convert via component??


I am selling my Samsung Hd-850 that is region free/hdcp free and upscales via HDMI and Component too!
It comes with 2 HDMi and HDMI to DVI cable too!

or you should hunt for Zenith 318 or samsung 1000.

Hello Everyone, I am looking for a DVD player that can up-convert vie component. I will be running an HD cable box, an Xbox 360 and a DVD player all thru my new receiver. That will be running to my Screenplay 4805. Please let me know, I like denon but I can’t get a straight answer from anybody about the component out? I also keep hearing about the panny s97, will this up convert via component??

Panny won't. This topic has been discussed a bunch. Search for component and I'm sure you will find alot of results.

Dave

Hello Everyone, I am looking for a DVD player that can up-convert vie component. I will be running an HD cable box, an Xbox 360 and a DVD player all thru my new receiver. That will be running to my Screenplay 4805. Please let me know, I like denon but I can’t get a straight answer from anybody about the component out? I also keep hearing about the panny s97, will this up convert via component??
Very short answer to this as I have stated this about 4 times in this thread already....
The LG DV7832NXC and its twin the Zenith DVB318 will as will the Samsung HD series dvd players after the hack has been applied. The NuoNeo will as well. NONE of the other DVD players will upconvert via component. (Panasonic, Sony, Denon etc.)

NONE of the other DVD players will upconvert via component. (Panasonic, Sony, Denon etc.)

Momitsu will, Norcent will, and older LiteOn will.

Momitsu will, Norcent will, and older LiteOn will.
Thanks Person99 I did not know that thes did as well. Still these are going to be hard and are getting harder to find now.

I just got the Panny S97 player to match with my panny 6uy 42" ED plasma.

I must say that I don't see any dramatic improvement over my el-cheapo JVC player.

I am excited to see no real MB issue over the DVI connection - but there is no way I can convince myself or my wife that this $350 (299 + tax plus $30 HMDI - DVI converter) is worth the picture image improvement over the $90 JVC progressive player I have now.

Anyone else not seeing a great improvement?? Is there a particular movie scene that might convince me otherwise?

I really wanted to take advantage of the DVI connector...maybe the OPPO player will be a better choice simply due to lower cost.

I really hope you meant this as a joke. There are significan't differences in the PQ of these players and other better players. Not sure how critical you are, but the differences can be seen on your display. If you blow the picture up to 8 feet wide, you would be amazed at the difference between players. I've tried both of these and you could not pay me to use either one as the softness and lack of detail between these and better players or a lumagen scaler was so significant my wife could tell the difference!

Dave

I did not mean this as a joke. On my DLP, both the OPPO and the Bravo D2 put out a fantastic picture on DVI. And I am super critical about what I view on my monitor. I have taken back 3 different DVI output DVD players that looked like junk on my monitor using the DVI connection. And by the way, my wife can tell the difference in these players versus the others I have tried. Also both the Bravo D2 and the OPPO have adjustments for brightness, contrast and saturation.

I am about to come to the opinion that these DVD players work differently on different types of monitors. There is an archived thread about the Bravo D1 and a previous Samsung DVI DVD player, which is archived on this forum--the Bravo D1 was rated very high--(the Bravo D2 is an upgrade to Bravo D1). Also, the reviews for the OPPO are very impressive on bench tests--the only player rated higher on PQ was a Denon that cost $3500.

Does anyone have any info on the samsung dvd/vhs combo 9500

Does anyone have any info on the samsung dvd/vhs combo 9500
What I have heard and seen the Samsung DVD player/VCR combo units are very good. The DVD player as usual for Samsung will not pass below black via DVI/HDMI but will using component out.

Hi, noob question (but I have been reading FAQs and thread looking for answer prior to posting):

I have a 1024 x 768p plasma. Any opinions on what upconverting dvd player will display better for me: one that outputs 1280x720p signal or one that output 1366x768p signal, or does it matter? I'm guessing the 768p because it matches and the tv only has to scale the 1366 down. Any thoughts?

Thanks!

Hi, noob question (but I have been reading FAQs and thread looking for answer prior to posting):

I have a 1024 x 768p plasma. Any opinions on what upconverting dvd player will display better for me: one that outputs 1280x720p signal or one that output 1366x768p signal, or does it matter? I'm guessing the 768p because it matches and the tv only has to scale the 1366 down. Any thoughts?

Thanks!I'd look at the plasma's manual to see what resolutions it takes from either DVI or HDMI. Main thing is to get a digital signal to the display so it can scale from there.....it has non-square picture elements so you can't give it 1:1 to bypass internal scaling.

Thank you Jim, I'll look into it. Is it region free?

Check out the new WMVHD-ready SZ-1350 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=573406) if you don't mind it's very fresh on the market. It still has room for improvement but the region-free hack already been published, followed by the CSS-disabler/upconversion-enabler trick.
It's not only got the usual DVI, component, Euroscart, optical, S/PDIF etc but discrete 6-ch analog out as well, wireless-g or wired ethernet, webbrowser, plays MPEG2 TS up to 25Mbit/s etc etc.

I did a search, but I wasn't able to find a definitive answer.

I would like to get an upconverting DVD player to connect to my Optoma H30. However, it doesn't have a DVI input.

I've seen DVI-I to component adapters on eBay. Could I use this adapter to convert the DVI output of the DVD player to component so I can connect this to my H30?

The momitsu v880 does a great job upconverting via it's component outputs. It probably would cost less than a "converter" like you're describing.

Very short answer to this as I have stated this about 4 times in this thread already....
The LG DV7832NXC and its twin the Zenith DVB318 will as will the Samsung HD series dvd players after the hack has been applied. The NuoNeo will as well. NONE of the other DVD players will upconvert via component. (Panasonic, Sony, Denon etc.)

Where do people get these so-called firmware hacks? From the manufacturer sites? And will these firmware upgrades positively allow upcoversion over component connects?

If so, I don't understand this. I thought all of the major manufacturers were onboard with the movie studios (if you can call them that) to prevent anyone without HDMI/DVI connects to view any DVD image at better than 480p.

Would you please give some details (and useful links)?

I have another question.

In your opinion and/or experience, is it better to go with a DVD player that can upconvert DVD source material itself and pass this along to a TV via component connects, as opposed to simply letting my TV do this upconversion to 1080i? If so, what is that advantage (in theory at least)?

For what it's worth, my TV is a Toshiba 42H81, with the ability (the manual says) to upconvert all DVD signals (run through component cables) to 1080i.

Any help would be appreciated.

John.........

The LG DV7832NXC and its twin the Zenith DVB318 DVD players mentioned will upconvert over component...... you can look this up in numerous threads here on AVS. Or contact member "Mystery" as he personally owns one.

However, they will only upconvert over component with an older version (don't know the number myself) of the firmware installed. With this earlier version installed you can upconvert over component but NOT over DVI... it was kind of a weird situation which they later resolved with a firmware update.... when the new firmware came out you could then upconvert over DVI, but they had removed the capability to upconvert over component.... so you have the choice... one or the other, but not both.

Whether or not the DVD player or TV will do a better job is up to each individual to decide. Some TV's will do a better job, some worse. You can test this by setting your DVD player of choice to 1080i (which appears to be the native resolution of your tv) and viewing the material and then switching the DVD player through all of it's resolutions (480i, 480p, 720p) and see what you personally like best.

John.........

The LG DV7832NXC and its twin the Zenith DVB318 DVD players mentioned will upconvert over component...... you can look this up in numerous threads here on AVS. Or contact member "Mystery" as he personally owns one.

However, they will only upconvert over component with an older version (don't know the number myself) of the firmware installed. With this earlier version installed you can upconvert over component but NOT over DVI... it was kind of a weird situation which they later resolved with a firmware update.... when the new firmware came out you could then upconvert over DVI, but they had removed the capability to upconvert over component.... so you have the choice... one or the other, but not both.

Whether or not the DVD player or TV will do a better job is up to each individual to decide. Some TV's will do a better job, some worse. You can test this by setting your DVD player of choice to 1080i (which appears to be the native resolution of your tv) and viewing the material and then switching the DVD player through all of it's resolutions (480i, 480p, 720p) and see what you personally like best.

Appreciate it, Steve. That's about how I had it measured.

I guess I'll just have to pop for the NeuNeo and see how it flies in the real world if I want to know for sure. Or . . . buy a regular-old DVD player for considerably less cash outlay, one that's built like a brick shithouse and gives a very-high-quality 480i/480p signal.

Do you happen to know of any units that fit that description?

Everything I've read tells me most (if not all) of this stuff comes with a kind of built-in failure rate, with some users out there getting screwed big time one way or the other, no matter how glowing most of the reviews are. Are there any exceptions to that (supposed) rule of thumb, or am I pissing into the wind?

To owners of the Sammy HD850 and Hometheater Master Remotes. I have the all region hack programmed to my Hometheater Master 500. If you would like the file shoot me an email and I'd be happy to share.

I guess I'll just have to pop for the NeuNeo and see how it flies in the real world if I want to know for sure. Or . . . buy a regular-old DVD player for considerably less cash outlay, one that's built like a brick shithouse and gives a very-high-quality 480i/480p signal.


tristanjohn,

It sounds like I'm in the same boat as you trying to figure out what (new) DVD player to by that will upconvert a commercial DVD title to 720P (or better) via component. The information on page 1 of this thread seems somewhat dated. At this point, I've narrowed it down to:

Momitsu 880
Momitsu 880N
Momitsu 880-DX
NeuNeo 2085

The Zenith (with the appropriate firmware) is probably unavailable by now, the NeuNeo HVD108 is a few generations old, and the specs for the Avel LinkPlayer2 explicitly has state that upscaling a standard DVD is not allowed.

Am I missing any options? Sorry, I know this question has been asked many times, but I have spent time digging through the threads and it's really hard to tell what information is current.

Can someone who has _recently_ purchased a Momitsu confirm whether or not it will upconvert a standard DVD? I see on the specs that it supports 480p, 720p, 1080i output via component, but doesn't explicitly say for what types of inputs.

Thanks,
Phil

tristanjohn,

It sounds like I'm in the same boat as you trying to figure out what (new) DVD player to by that will upconvert a commercial DVD title to 720P (or better) via component. The information on page 1 of this thread seems somewhat dated. At this point, I've narrowed it down to:

Momitsu 880
Momitsu 880N
Momitsu 880-DX
NeuNeo 2085

The Zenith (with the appropriate firmware) is probably unavailable by now, the NeuNeo HVD108 is a few generations old, and the specs for the Avel LinkPlayer2 explicitly has state that upscaling a standard DVD is not allowed.

Am I missing any options? Sorry, I know this question has been asked many times, but I have spent time digging through the threads and it's really hard to tell what information is current.

Can someone who has _recently_ purchased a Momitsu confirm whether or not it will upconvert a standard DVD? I see on the specs that it supports 480p, 720p, 1080i output via component, but doesn't explicitly say for what types of inputs.

Thanks,
Phil


Before I upgraded to this WMVHD-enabled Snazio SZ-1350, I had the Momitsu V880 and I can't recall any limitation.

V880N upconverts DVD from the tray and DVD over network to what ever rez you like.

tristanjohn,

It sounds like I'm in the same boat as you trying to figure out what (new) DVD player to by that will upconvert a commercial DVD title to 720P (or better) via component. The information on page 1 of this thread seems somewhat dated. At this point, I've narrowed it down to:

Momitsu 880
Momitsu 880N
Momitsu 880-DX
NeuNeo 2085

The Zenith (with the appropriate firmware) is probably unavailable by now, the NeuNeo HVD108 is a few generations old, and the specs for the Avel LinkPlayer2 explicitly has state that upscaling a standard DVD is not allowed.

Am I missing any options? Sorry, I know this question has been asked many times, but I have spent time digging through the threads and it's really hard to tell what information is current.

Can someone who has _recently_ purchased a Momitsu confirm whether or not it will upconvert a standard DVD? I see on the specs that it supports 480p, 720p, 1080i output via component, but doesn't explicitly say for what types of inputs.

Thanks,
Phil

In my case it's a little unique insofar as I've never owned a DVD player but have stuck with S-VHS all these years for the purpose of building my film collection. But it's just too bulky now, plus the industry had made sufficent strides with re to PQ in HDTV (and the now the soon-to-here HD pre-recorded material) that I'm ready to switch over to DVD--at least to an extent.

Thing is, for me there is nothing to compare to from prior DVD experience, so my primary interest, over and above to achieve the best PQ possible, is to get a unit of excellent build quality. With me that's always important.

As for PQ: for many users these scaling units don't seem to do much, while other users see remarkbly better pictures. So it's apparent the end result of this exercise depends on one's HDTV and how that interacts with the player--it could well be that you and I would both get better results just feeding our TVs a 480i signal.

My old Toshiba HDTV is still too good to get rid of, so I'm kinda stuck in that regard. As it only has component connects, that further limits my choice with regard to upscaling players. That's where NeuNeo comes in.

I have no no doubt the NeuNeo player does a great job on its own, based on the admittedly scant feedback I've received from just two users of the new model, and a few who have one of the older machines. At $235 (current sale price) it's probably worth the money. But again, whether you and I would see any marked improvement in PQ using a player like that with our TVs is the question. My main concern over the NeuNeo is its build quality, as the company's return policy is clearly spelled out and someone strict, so I hesitate for that reason.

I just wonder if it wouldn't be better for a man in my position to buy a simple 480i/480p machine and let my HDTV scale that signal up to 1080i and be done with this until I'm ready to buy a new television set with HDMI in a couple of years. In fact, the more I think about it the more I'm convinced that would be the best way to go. But if it is, then what "simple" DVD player is the best for me now? That's another thing I don't know, because again, I'm just now getting into that end of the hobby. I know the difference between quality VHS machines and crap, I'm clueless when it comes to DVD players.

John............

Your older Toshiba HDTV will most likely not scale the DVD's. It will play them at the 480 that they were recorded at...., but that will still look great.

Only the newer TV's are using 720p or 1080i as their "native" scan rate.... older HDTV's used 480 as native, but could display 1080i... your Toshiba will probably not display 720p only 480i, 480p, & 1080i.

At least that was the case on my Toshiba HDTV....................YMMV!

Does enyone have eny links to reviews of the new sony DVP-NS9100 they could post please.
I'v been searching but only seem able to find the specs for this model which is odd as its release is about now.

im not sure where he is going on what imputs, but if the dvd upscales you select what your tv will show by component. amazon has the zenith 318 due the middle of oct. and quite a few others have it for less than 150 us

I have the HD950 working with my Loewe Aconda 30". Quite a noticeable difference between 480p and 1080i via component.

First impression, PQ is definitely sharper than 480p. Is it worth all the hoopla that's been made about upconverting? I'm not sure, although it's nice to see the improvement in PQ.

Does enyone have eny links to reviews of the new sony DVP-NS9100 they could post please.
I'v been searching but only seem able to find the specs for this model which is odd as its release is about now.

Some more spec's (and pictures) to keep you buzzy: http://www.avbuzz.com/audio-video/200508/sony-7100pc/index.htm :).

I purchased the LG LST-3510 HDTV tuner + DVD for my Samsung DLP HLN 5065W and the picture looks excellent. Paid $200 at Best Buy. I have a single DVI so this unit allows me to hook them both up via DVI. Discussing the DVD performance only: The quality from 480i to 720p is very noticable (use Fifth element at time 1:21:22 when cruse ship is above ocean and look a the detail on the windows etc.) The picture is very clean as well as noise is very low when compared to anything else I have seen. I also checked and the unit passes Blacker than Black where as the HD841 does not.

The quality over component is huge on this Samsung DLP set and the only negative issues I have seen are minimal interlacing lines seen on 4:3 DVDs and briefly (2 sec) when one fast forwards to a scene THATS IT. Given my experience with component input Sony DVD changer NC80V, Harman Kardon DVD 22, 31 (all excellent on an analog HDTV set at 480i) picture is more detailed and has less noise. Comparing to Samsung HD841 ( via DVI picture looks better than component models except on dark scenes) the picture is slightly more detailed much less noisy, passes blacker than black and Fifth element looks very very cool.Am I missing something on this unit that I dont know about? I needed an HDTV OTA tuner so from my point of view I got this for free! It is obvious that Digital sets benefit from a DVI connection vs component and should be considered. For analog sets the benefits are minimal if any.

Also, the reviews for the OPPO are very impressive on bench tests--the only player rated higher on PQ was a Denon that cost $3500.

You are obviously referencing the Secrets review. I hope you do know that the overall score on that site does not have PQ as a component of it. It is a combination of tests like cadence detection, responsiveness, layer change, etc.

Thus, they are not claiming that it has the second best PQ of all players. They are claiming that its weighted scores on their tests placed it second best.

This site is pretty misleading in that way. The only discussion of PQ on that site is in the reviews. Pretty bizarre, but that is the case. I think it is not a great way to review because frankly, I'll take a slow responsiveness player with great PQ over a responsive player with poor PQ. Unfortunately, that is not the way the Secrets scores work.

Dave

I own an Oppo and must say that PQ is excellent over DVI.

I'm with you Dave - it would be nice to have a PQ section in the reviews, objectively measured with screen patterns and accompanying screenshots. For example, Avia, DVE, and 3no's great below-black and above-white patterns disc - the latter useful for evaluating levels performance.

My wishlist for a battery of PQ tests:

Sharpness and ringing tests.
Color decoder tests.
BTB and WTW clipping/expanding tests (perfect player should not clip or expand).
Grayscale purity (excessive ringing can impact this in grayscale ramps).
Overscan tests.

Evaluations can be done against a reference machine, such as a properly setup HTPC (I'm thinking a Joe Kane approved HTPC - and in the future HDMI-enabled PCs) and/or an Accupel generator when evaluating DVI/HDMI upscaling DVD players.

To be fair to the Secrets people, the above is a lot of work - perhaps on the order of a dozen hours spent on one DVD player.

I own an Oppo and must say that PQ is excellent over DVI.

What did you compare it to and on what display? My Oppo went back pretty fast.

I used to watch DVD's on a Sammy HD841 over component cables. My display is a 50" Sony RP LCD.

I'm with you Dave - it would be nice to have a PQ section in the reviews, objectively measured with screen patterns and accompanying screenshots. For example, Avia, DVE, and 3no's great below-black and above-white patterns disc - the latter useful for evaluating levels performance.

My wishlist for a battery of PQ tests:

Sharpness and ringing tests.
Color decoder tests.
BTB and WTW clipping/expanding tests (perfect player should not clip or expand).
Grayscale purity (excessive ringing can impact this in grayscale ramps).
Overscan tests.

Evaluations can be done against a reference machine, such as a properly setup HTPC (I'm thinking a Joe Kane approved HTPC - and in the future HDMI-enabled PCs) and/or an Accupel generator when evaluating DVI/HDMI upscaling DVD players.

To be fair to the Secrets people, the above is a lot of work - perhaps on the order of a dozen hours spent on one DVD player.

They don't do a bad job over there--much better than some! :)

Hey everyone, I have an Olevia LT26HVX hooked up to a DENON 3910 over DVI and most reference type DVDS (gladiator, fifth element) LOOK HD. NO noise, no macroblocking that I have seen (and I am fixated on the relentless pursuit of perfect PQ) Colors are bright, not dull, but cannot adjust color saturation as oppoosed to analog. Great combo and Olevia 's are purely underrrated and being a 2nd rate LCD distributor.....
Today I bought this ghetto Gold plated DVi connector, must be 12ft long, and looks just as good as the 168.00 monster cable I bought!!!!
Maybe I should sell these?

Tristanjohn, I'm right with ya! :tu:

HIDEF_J: Selling the monster cable is a good idea. I just picked up a 25 foot HDMI->DVI cable from monorpice.com and it works great at 1280x720 and even 1920x1080i! I also picked up an HDMI->DVI converter from them - I saved $45 CDN when I returned the Monster Cable brand converter to Best Buy - what a ripoff!

Tristanjohn, I'm right with ya! :tu:

HIDEF_J: Selling the monster cable is a good idea. I just picked up a 25 foot HDMI->DVI cable from monorpice.com and it works great at 1280x720 and even 1920x1080i! I also picked up an HDMI->DVI converter from them - I saved $45 CDN when I returned the Monster Cable brand converter to Best Buy - what a ripoff!


Tell me about it! Monster is a great example of "name recognition" which uses Genius marketing ploys to generate huge profit margins off of cables that LOOK better in terms of the different type of connector! I was sold just for the fact that the RCA cable or DVi cable plastic molded material "looked" better than this ghetto loooking cable I got today at the computer swapmeet.... I have a picture that looks HD-like with no problems of ghosting, or interference and I have a music studio run with PROtool right next to it!!! LOL!

Monster is smart, but we have to be smarter. I will concede that their Zcable for component do work and retain color better than any other cable I have used..
(if only MOGAMI made RGB cables!) :rolleyes:

Hey max I am pondering some experimental things

Would you think it would be possible to do a DVI (from DVD player) to a DVI to VGA hd15 adapter, then connect a VGA HD 15 cable that has the 5 BNC connectors for RGBHV to my RP mitsubishi TV???????

Yeah, that would work - but ONLY if the DVD player will actually send VGA analog signals out. I don't think the Oppo can do it, and of course none of the HDMI players can do it as far as I know.

It will work perfectly on an older upscaling player, like a Momitsu V880. But, you may need a gender-bender on the VGA cable to get it working right.

PS: I like the rant. :)

MAx, which rant? I do it a lo so which rant are you refering to?

MC bubblicious fisheyes?

The Monster one, of course! :)

Do I even want to know what your sig means? lol

Thought you guys might be interested in the this story posted on MSNBC's web site today:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9501255/

Looks like the players are finally choosing sides.

Hello friends of the forum. I want to connect my samsung hd 850 (region 2 and sistem.PAL) to my projector for component but non get that climbs me for that exit. is there some form of getting it? please,help.

Sorry, I don't understand your question! Can you rephrase?

I don't speak English, sorry.¿Can I upscaler for components with my dvd samsung hd 850 to connect it to my video projector?.As it is made?.Help me.Thanks Maxleung.

Try this...

Press the following buttons on your remote...

"Power" (when unit is off)
"angle"
"4, 3, 2, 7"
"angle"

On your TV you should see a message saying that "HDCP is disabled"
This will alow a person to upconvert all DVDs via component as well. To turn it back on just enter the code sequence again.
You should try to use this forum's search feature.

I have had a Samsung HD931 player and HLN4365 DLP TV for nearly two years, and will probably keep the TV for a year or two more. They both have DVI connectors and PQ is not bad, though dark scenes are the weak point. I'm wondering how much I would gain with a new player, or is the TV the limiting factor?

Advice here seems to say I should stick with DVI if the TV has DVI, rather than HDMI. I am considering the Oppo. Has anyone here changed from a similar setup?

I have had a Samsung HD931 player and HLN4365 DLP TV for nearly two years, and will probably keep the TV for a year or two more. They both have DVI connectors and PQ is not bad, though dark scenes are the weak point. I'm wondering how much I would gain with a new player, or is the TV the limiting factor?

Advice here seems to say I should use a player with a DVI output rather than HDMI, and am considering the Oppo. Has anyone here changed from a similar setup?


NOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
j/k get a player that uses HDMI the future is HDMI.....
Dvi is disappearing and carrying more information is better than not..

willowsong, the Samsung HD850 can output 720p and 1080i over component video - but I think you need to enter a code.

Look here for more information:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6234026&&#post6234026

There's absolutely nothing wrong with DVI though. You should have the same PQ as with HDMI. And if you enjoy good quality soundtracks, you're probably sending your audio to your receiver anyways so you can take advantage of the surround sound.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with DVI though. You should have the same PQ as with HDMI. And if you enjoy good quality soundtracks, you're probably sending your audio to your receiver anyways so you can take advantage of the surround sound.


are you saying that personally have HDMI and use it to pass surround sound?
I ask you this because nothing that I heard passes 5.1 DD or DTS only 2 channel, right?

I don't send sound to my display's speakers. My display doesn't have an HDMI input and, even if it did, I personally wouldn't use my display's speakers very often. Most of the channels I watch are in PLII or DD 5.1. With my DVD's I use the DTS soundtrack if available - if not, I listen to the DD 5.1 soundtrack. My audio goes to my receiver via coaxial audio cable or optical cable depending on what source I'm listening to. It's a matter of personal choice I guess. I'm sure you can still run a coaxial or optical cable to your receiver from the DVD player. All I was saying is there's nothing inferior about DVI with regards to PQ.

I don't send sound to my display's speakers. My display doesn't have an HDMI input and, even if it did, I personally wouldn't use my display's speakers very often. Most of the channels I watch are in PLII or DD 5.1. With my DVD's I use the DTS soundtrack if available - if not, I listen to the DD 5.1 soundtrack. My audio goes to my receiver via coaxial audio cable or optical cable depending on what source I'm listening to. It's a matter of personal choice I guess. I'm sure you can still run a coaxial or optical cable to your receiver from the DVD player. All I was saying is there's nothing inferior about DVI with regards to PQ.


oh, I misunderstood you my bad!
I am starting NOT to like DVi simply because of the DVI-i DVI-D and DVi-A connections.
I suspect that HDMI will be the new standard and DVI will go away, then only the bottom end DVD players will probably use it because I think it is cheaper to make DVI
input/outputs....
My olevia LCD has DVI only, no Hdmi, and newer high end sets have HDMI...

I'm looking for a good pro scan dvd player and want to stick around the $200 price.Is the sony DVP NS975V a good unit?

HDMI vs. DVI bah

Why is the standard shifting to HDMI? Who needs digital audio directly to their TV? All true audiophiles bypass their TV and feed, via optical or coax digital, directly to their hi-end audio RCVRs.

Also, why do hi-end TV manufacturers insist on placing speakers on the sides of their TVs? Who actually uses them?!?! It makes working with my entertainment center cumbersome, as I only have enough room for a true 32, not one that has compromised my space because it insists on adding 2-3 inches on either side for the worthless speakers.


Here's my rig:

Samsung TXP-3064W
Oppo OPDV971H
Onkyo HT-S570

HDMI vs. DVI bah

Why is the standard shifting to HDMI? Who needs digital audio directly to their TV? All true audiophiles bypass their TV and feed, via optical or coax digital, directly to their hi-end audio RCVRs.

Manufacturers want to sell to more people than just "true audiophiles". Look here:

http://www.hdmi.org/consumer/why_hdmi.asp

That's also why they put speakers on the sides.

NOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
...get a player that uses HDMI the future is HDMI.....
Dvi is disappearing and carrying more information is better than not..

So back to the original comment above. The only reason HDMI has become popular is because the general public wants simple connections between their equipment and displays. I know a lot of people that have high definition tv's but don't receive high definition programming, use cheap dvd players and don't have a surround sound system. Personally I prefer to enjoy both the video and the audio when watching tv.

Not to mention HDMI is a higher bandwidth connection capable of carrying 10 or 12 bit video as opposed to just 8 bit over DVI. DVI is way too confusing for most people (aside from the complicated connector) - there are DVI devices designed to video spec, others designed to PC spec, etc. HDMI is way more user friendly and powerful. I agree that I don't think the ability to carry audio and video over one cable is a huge deal but for some people it will be nice and simple. Even when HDMI receivers become popular, I will always route the video direct to the TV to allow independent calibration for each source.

Ok, this is all confusing and "exhausting" searching through all these posts on upconverting players!!! Seems you gotta sort through WAY TOO MUCH extraneous info to get to what you need to know.
I'm considering the Oppo, Bravo inc, the Momitsu, the Samsung 850(?), the Onkyo, and that's probably it.
All I want to know (I've been searching all this for at least a couple of weeks off and on, steadily) is which player is best at upconverting picture quality (720p/1080/etc) from the DVI, HDMI, component (which one's do that well, if at all?), and which players rank the best for audio quality through the digital out, and analog outs for 2 channel source, and which ones do best on SACD/DVDA sound?
I'm not sure which of all these options I'll need yet. So I'll want to know which players rank best in each area, so I can put together the best player choice when I do.
Also, is there a post that ranks each of these players(or others) by best in each category I mentioned?

HDMI vs. DVI bah

Why is the standard shifting to HDMI? Who needs digital audio directly to their TV? All true audiophiles bypass their TV and feed, via optical or coax digital, directly to their hi-end audio RCVRs.


Personally I use optical for my audio connections.
People want different types of connectivity from their components. There are 'weirdo's' that swear coaxial is better than optical (yeah I know!)
IS DVi better than HDMI and vise versa? IT depends on what you are looking for.

Digital is digital BUT HDMI carries more information unless you have a "dual link" DVI cable but even then-all this does is send both analog and digital signals...
Dvi has DVI-A,I,andD !! IT is rediculous IMO so many people have chosen HDMI-which will be the future and DVI will trickle away- wait and see.

Who needs digital audio directly to their TV? All true audiophiles bypass their TV and feed, via optical or coax digital, directly to their hi-end audio RCVRs

Are you saying if you used an HDMI cable for both Video and Audio (because the cable allows you to send both signals) then you would not be a true audiophile??

What type of speakers do you use? AND cables?

I know what you are saying but THINK about it. WHen next generation components arrive that WILL support 5.1, 6.1 multichannel HDMI signals you won't need additional cables to get it which is the case with optical. HDMI will pass both HD and multichannel audio. THe question is why NOT use it when it becomes available since you will be using HDMI for Video anyway?? ( unless you use DVI)


Also, why do hi-end TV manufacturers insist on placing speakers on the sides of their TVs? Who actually uses them?!?! It makes working with my entertainment center cumbersome, as I only have enough room for a true 32, not one that has compromised my space because it insists on adding 2-3 inches on either side for the worthless speakers.

You really have to ask that? THey don't make "audio/video -phile TV's with "us" in mind, nor do they cut out a square opening under the screen to place a center channel (talking about my RP tv)..... They make the speakers for a reason. Joe Blow wants a TV, and tests the speakers to see if they sound good, WHY? Because not EVERYONE has a HT, or even wants one dude. Some people like crap-mediocre sound because they truly cannot tell difference!! I know, used to work @ a known Electronic retailer and people THINK it all sounds the same, they convince themselves of this and just use the TV's speakers.

Question- why do you think HT's in a box sell???
THE ONE REASON- after realizing the TV's speakers don't "do it" for them they how need a HT but can only justufy spending 4-500.00 give or take on an all in one system... THen they convince themselves this sounds great....
Meanwhile you and I know this is not the case!

My setup is:
Mitsubishi 55in Diamond series.
Denon 3910 and 1600
Yamaha Rx-Z9 used for processing
MOnster 3 channel (250WPC) DENON 2400a (200WPC)
Athena speakers with internally rewired audioquest copper wiring (ghetto mod!)
Lastly I use my OLevia LT26HVX for the computer and DVI input from 3910 :D

[QUOTE=flrnlam]Ok, this is all confusing and "exhausting" searching through all these posts on upconverting players!!! Seems you gotta sort through WAY TOO MUCH extraneous info to get to what you need to know.

If money is no object go for the Denon, I dont have that kind of jack, so I chose the Oppo........Here's a gr8 link 4 u:

http://www.extremephono.com/Oppo_DV971.htm

Not to mention HDMI is a higher bandwidth connection capable of carrying 10 or 12 bit video as opposed to just 8 bit over DVI. DVI is way too confusing for most people (aside from the complicated connector) - there are DVI devices designed to video spec, others designed to PC spec, etc. HDMI is way more user friendly and powerful. I agree that I don't think the ability to carry audio and video over one cable is a huge deal but for some people it will be nice and simple. Even when HDMI receivers become popular, I will always route the video direct to the TV to allow independent calibration for each source.


So even though my Oppo has 2 sets of DACs that are 108Mhz, 12 bit I dont get the 12 bit, because my DVI connect only offers a throughput of 8 bit??!?!??!? So why didnt Oppo give it an HDMI output, I dont get it?!?! :mad:

I just swapped my DVI cable from my Samsung LCD 152T computer monitor, how do I know or figure out what the spec of that cable is, whether it's 8, 10 or 12 bit? If in fact it's only 8 bit, how much does my signal suffer and how much are the DVI cables that offer a full spec?

TXP3064W?....once again, I'm interested in the players I mentioned! These players are "inexpensive". I won't pay more than $250max for a format that will be replaced by high def players ASAP!!!
That said, I also asked, which players were best from DVI upconverting....which player is best via HDMI...which player is best via component, and will upconvert via component...which player sounds best for PCM digital from the digital output...and which player sounds best from it's analog out's, and maybe multichannnel DVDA/SACD processing?
That should be easy, assuming someone knows which players are best from any of these applications.
Is there a list somewhere breaking all this down???
That way I can chose which player will fit my needs, once I nail down my specific needs and projector source, etc.
Given all the postings and reviews, you would think someone was on top of this...

you would think someone was on top of this... [QUOTE]

Ok, I was going to reply to you the other night but I bit my tongue. Let me get this straight. You don't have the time to search through the forum, other forums and internet sources etc. etc. to find the best $250 DVD Player for YOU. But you expect one of us on this forum to do that work for you? The Secrets review (do a search) is a good start and then you're going to have to research every model that interests you. You're going to get many different opinions. If you want a suggestion, go with the Oppo but it won't upconvert over component. Maybe somebody else in this forum has the time to compile all of this information for you. I'm too busy watching tv to do that for you. :)

Amen Scott! You got it right.

The Zenith DVB-318 seems to upconvert great via component. At least the picture on my 100" screen looks great using it. But I don't have the ability to compare it to the picture produced by the Samsung via component.

Yep, that's right Dusterscott! I want everyone to do all the work for me on this, yes! And I want it speedy darn quick please!!! Don't make me ask again....lol
Actually, I hate sitting in front of a computer any more than I have to these day's, I feel I get eye fatigued. I do enough watching all day as it is.
that said, I have searched through so many threads of non-important feedback, that it does try my patience, yes. I know, boo hoo...right?
Still, I see no threads that break it down simply in terms of what's really important when it comes right to it, and that's pic quality and sound quality! I could really give a rats behind about "back-lite" remotes, region codes( just want to play the darn dvd's at my local Best Buy for crying out loud), "front display lighting" beeing easily read from across the room, "disc spinning noise", or this processor, that delay time in flipping layers, etc, etc, for each and every player!!!
That said, I think there would at least be someone who posted somewhere (again, don't see it anywere) about a breakdown of what players excell in what category, for sound and picture (not in that order)! This makes sense.
Either the Oppo is better from DVI, or whatever, or the Momitsu or Denon is, whatever.
Or either the Samsung is better from the component out with a "hacked" component HD out, or some other player. And either the Onkyo's better sounding from it's digital out, or the Sony, and so on, and so forth.
Why is this so hard?
I'm sure someone here knows from experiience most of this stuff.
I've just been out of the loop with the latest pieces for a couple of years, and missed all this "upconverting player" stuff. (I was used to deal with scalers externally)
And hey, if anyone wants to clue me in this trivia, then I can return the favor, and help you put together or tweak your audio system for world class sound, as that's what I excell at! (6 audio stores and 15 years around the business, plus hundreds of hookup's/installs over the years worth of experience, plus acoustical engineering and audiophile tweaking background)I can help/swap for favors here, sure.
Thanks for any input

The DVD Benchmark listings at hometheaterhifi might be of help. Surely you have seen references to these evaluations in your search.

Flrnlan, just what is "world class sound?" I have heard of Klipsh, JBL, Bozak, Wharfdale etc sound, but never world class (unless Bose used it in an ad). Is such a world status truly attainable? How about "concert hall realism" vs "movie" or "theater" sound. I want all those in my home system and I want to be able to instantly convert it to Eric Clapton playing in the center of my soundstage. Tall order and I have been chasing it for more than 50 yrs and it is fun!

The Zenith DVB-318 seems to upconvert great via component. At least the picture on my 100" screen looks great using it. But I don't have the ability to compare it to the picture produced by the Samsung via component.


I just recived the 950 and upconverting over comp. In my opion and my wifes pic is as good as oppo we had and colors are way better. I did have a wierd exp. with finding nemo, but tried sharks tale and pic was great. still havent used avia but will tomorrow.

I'm a newbie here and was hoping to get some advice form the experts. I'm looking to get an upconverting DVD Player in the range within $200-400.
my current setup includes:
TV -> sharp LCD TVLC-32GA5U
Cable box :-> Explorer 8300HD DVR
Receive -> Onkyo TXSR503S
DVD player :-> Philips DVP642
Any help/recommendations would be highly appreciated.

I just recived the 950 and upconverting over comp. In my opion and my wifes pic is as good as oppo we had and colors are way better. I did have a wierd exp. with finding nemo, but tried sharks tale and pic was great. still havent used avia but will tomorrow.

I have never directly compared the two and almost bought the 950. The Oppo however does not upscale over composite or use the faroudja processor. So the Oppo pretty much blows over composit but it is pretty amazing ove a digital input. All I am saying is if you were comparing it to Oppo over composite it should be many times better they could only be compared over a digital input and the Oppo should only be used over a digital input.

I'm a newbie here and was hoping to get some advice form the experts. I'm looking to get an upconverting DVD Player in the range within $200-400.
my current setup includes:
TV -> sharp LCD TVLC-32GA5U
Cable box :-> Explorer 8300HD DVR
Receive -> Onkyo TXSR503S
DVD player :-> Philips DVP642
Any help/recommendations would be highly appreciated.
I'm very happy with the Panasonic DVD-S97, the DVD-S77 and OPDV971H (http://www.oppodigital.com/) also get very good ratings; see http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=122. For a comparison of the Panasonic DVD-S77, Toshiba SD-5980, and Samsung DVD-H950, see http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=870.

My TV (JVC 61z786) only has one HDMI input. Would I be better off using the HDMI input for my HD DVR/cable box or a DVD player?

If I use the HDMI input for my cable box/DVR, then should I look for a DVD player that upconverts via component, or just get a progressive scan DVD player and let my TV upconvert?

My TV (JVC 61z786) only has one HDMI input. Would I be better off using the HDMI input for my HD DVR/cable box or a DVD player?

If I use the HDMI input for my cable box/DVR, then should I look for a DVD player that upconverts via component, or just get a progressive scan DVD player and let my TV upconvert?
My research indicates that you won't see much improvement over a good 480p with upconverting DVD players and that the upconversion on your TV is likely to be as good as or better than most upconverting DVD players. What you should be looking for is a DVD player with good conversion from 480i to 480p (the Panasonic DVD-S97 and DVD-S77 have good conversion from 480i to 480p). A recent report comparing various HDMI DVD players, http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=870, gives a good example showing that feeding your TV with a good 480p signal is an excellent approach. So this leads to my suggestion that you connect your HD DVR/cable box to the TV HDMI input and feed a good 480p DVD signal to component inputs on your TV. Note, however, that your TV probably will not do any upconversion (scaling) of a 480p signal but it may upconvert (scale) a 480i signal; I also find myself wondering whether any TV converts 480i signals to 720p or higher (ie conversion from i to p signals), I know mine doesn't; if I feed it a DVD 480p signal it doesn't do anything to that signal but if I feed it with a DVD 480i signal it can upconvert (scale) it, with the right settings, to a 960i signal or a VHS 240i to 480i.

Doc,

As I am sure you are aware whether any TV upconverts the signal or not is totally dependent on the technology being used in the TV.

Most CRT will display whatever you feed it. With the exception of some late model Sony TV's that upconverted everything internally to 1080i. Which is why people loved watching HDTV or DVD's on them but complained that SDTV looked horrible.

LCD will upconvert to the native resolution of the LCD panels.

Plasma will upconvert to the native resolution panel.

Rear projection DLP or Front projection DLP will upconvert to the native rate of the DLP engine.

The only way to determine what works best for your TV is to do some research here on AVS for your specific model TV..., or you can simply find a DVD player that does a good job of outputting 480i or 480p (more research here on AVS) and feed the two signals to your TV and see which looks best.... (with my older Faroudja equipped Panasonic DVD player the 480p output was much better than the 480i) which tells me that the de-interlacer/scaler from Faroudja was doing a better job than the internal de-interlacer/scaler on my BenQ DLP projector... YMMV!

Then to cap it off you need to feed your TV a signal over HDMI/DVI from an upscaling DVD player (either the Panasonics mentioned earlier or the Oppo 971H) set at 480p/720p/1080i and see which looks the best to you.

If you really want to get energetic you could feed a DVI/HDMI signal from a HTPC to your TV and check that out!

In most applications that I have seen discussed here on AVS the image from the HTPC will be the best... but of course that is the most cost intensive solution also.

Personally I am now using the DVI out from the Oppo 971H to my BenQ 8700+ DLP projector... it looks excellent. Not quite as good as from my HTPC, but awful darn close.

Of course now if you are going to feed multiple digital (DVI/HDMI) signals to your TV now you have a switching problem (Great ain't it... you just never get finished with this hobby). Now you will either have to add:

1. An external scaler with multiple DVI/HDMI inputs... (I am not an expert on these, but I know the new DVDO iScan VP30 falls into this catagory... not sure if Lumegen has one out with these inputs yet).

2. A HT Receiver with multiple HDMI/DVI inputs... say the new Yahama RX-V2600.... (2 HDMI in and one out, plus transcodes all analog signals and outputs everything over a single HDMI cable).

3. Or finally an HDMI/DVI external switcher (such as a Gefen 2x1 or 4x1 HDMI switch).

Party On!!!!

I have never directly compared the two and almost bought the 950. The Oppo however does not upscale over composite or use the faroudja processor. So the Oppo pretty much blows over composit but it is pretty amazing ove a digital input. All I am saying is if you were comparing it to Oppo over composite it should be many times better they could only be compared over a digital input and the Oppo should only be used over a digital input.



Check the forums the oppo does use the faj. chip. and conponent,not composit. i dont beleave you can even do 480p over composite

Check the forums the oppo does use the faj. chip. and conponent,not composit. i dont beleave you can even do 480p over composite

I never said the Oppo did not have a Faroudja chip.

I meant component it should have been obvious since you are right about composite my point is that the Oppo is only a good DVD player over a digital output and you need not compare it against anything over any other output as it only uses the faroudja over DVI.

The faroudja chip is on the DVI card and is not available for component out.

.................Still, I see no threads that break it down simply in terms of what's really important when it comes right to it, and that's pic quality and sound quality! I could really give a rats behind about "back-lite" remotes, region codes( just want to play the darn dvd's at my local Best Buy for crying out loud), "front display lighting" beeing easily read from across the room, "disc spinning noise", or this processor, that delay time in flipping layers, etc, etc, for each and every player!!!
That said, I think there would at least be someone who posted somewhere (again, don't see it anywere) about a breakdown of what players excell in what category, for sound and picture (not in that order)! This makes sense.
Either the Oppo is better from DVI, or whatever, or the Momitsu or Denon is, whatever.


yada....yada....yada.
As one audiophile to another, I think you're asking way to much from this forum. The absolutes you're looking for just don't exist here.........or anywhere for that matter........anymore than they do in audiophile circles. It's a "discussion forum" not a text book. Everyone on here is searching for the very answers you're looking for. Some of us have over 1,000 posts to our credit...and we're still searching......comparing notes on the lastest equipment based on what we know at the moment....but with the understanding that there are no absolutes. As with audio, it still gets down to your own eyes and your own ears.

If you want a list of the best equipment out there for "pic quality and sound quality"...and you don't want to do your own research outside the forum to get it, why not at least do a search through the threads, develop your own list, and then post it. That way you'll get some useful feedback from the members based on their knowledge and experience and you can make up your own mind about what's hot and what's not. I think that would go down with the members a lot better than the demands posted above.
Javry

I just quickly read S&V review of 3 upconverting HDMI dvd players:

The 3 reviewed were Toshiba 598, Samsung HD950, and Panny-S77.

Of the choices, the reviewer preferred the Panny-S77 for video performance.

Interestingly, he writes:

"Panasonic’s HDMI and progressive-scan outputs yielded identical-looking images from my front projector."

So in other words, HDMI upscaling is really hype, with no discernable difference if you own a decent front projector? Hmmm.... I guess it makes no sense to upgrade my good Sony progessive player for anything now, as I probably won´t see any difference. Better to wait until HD-DVD players hit the market next year, which will also have this dubious upconverting functionality built-in???

What do you guys think? Has anyone seen noticable picture quality performance IMPROVEMENT using upconversion 480 to 720p via a decent projector >$3,000? (Not using HDMI upconversion on tvs or 42 inch plasmas, but screen sizes bigger than 60 inches is what I am curious about). It would be interesting to know as I would love to improve on the DVD image from my BenqPe7700 and invest in a new player if the improvement is discernable.

Thanks for any info.

Regular guy,

I hear reports like that every now and then...someone saying that the digital in (DVI/HDMI) looks no better than the analog component in. In my opinion, if this is true in their system, their eyesight is poor *or* their equipment is not properly designed to reveal the benefits of a straight digital path.

I have the BenQ 8700+ DLP (720P) projector and the OPPO DVD player which scales to either 720P or 1080I via DVI/HDMI. The results are spectacular...and cleaerly exceed the projector's own scaler by a subtle, but meaningful margin.

It's really in the subtle details where it makes a difference...like the things in high-end audio that make one CD player sound better than the other. One listener won't hear any difference but the audiophile can hear the smoothness, and subtle air of the one player that the other masks. The OPPO running 720P via DVI into the BenQ is about as good as it can get outside of HD with well mastered DVDs (like Toy Story and 5th Element).

Regular guy,

I have an S97 connected via HDMI to my AE700 and it just feels good knowing that I have the best connection available right now. I think it looks great so that's good enough for me.

I have to agree with Boulet. If you don't see the difference between component and hdmi you need to see your eye doctor. It is much cleaner looking. I just got the Sony NS70H ,and it looks considerably better than my Yamaha 550 with component.

Love is a serious mental disease.
Plato

I'm a newbie here and was hoping to get some advice form the experts. I'm looking to get an upconverting DVD Player in the range within $200-400.
my current setup includes:
TV -> sharp LCD TVLC-32GA5U
Cable box :-> Explorer 8300HD DVR
Receive -> Onkyo TXSR503S
DVD player :-> Philips DVP642
a Any help/recommendations would be highly appreciated.
Look at the Momitsu V880 & V880n units;
they're as good or better than those
costing hundreds more. My V880 is
getting to 2 years old and produces
a superb 1080i upcon'd image on
a 65-inch crt rptv, and others
report equally favorable results
with lcd, lcos and other displays.
Be careful with front projectors
however. Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

Milt,

Just upgraded from the Momitsu v880 to the Oppo...Oppo's picture is MUCH better...less pixelated and less "digital" looking...more analog (and more detailed). But of course, this is running DVI (the OPPO doesn't do above 480I on component) so the Momitsu is still a great player for those who need to run component-analog.

What is the cheapest upconverting DVD player and what would you recommend for my 50" RCA DLP (DVI Input)?

This is my TV:
http://www.rca.com/product/viewdetail/0,2588,PI700800-CI700320,00.html

I have to agree with Boulet. If you don't see the difference between component and hdmi you need to see your eye doctor. It is much cleaner looking. I just got the Sony NS70H ,and it looks considerably better than my Yamaha 550 with component.

I've been looking at the Sony NS70H. What are your overall impressions? I guess what I'm looking for is a reliable upconverting player at a reasonable price with out a lot of expensive options. Might as well save the dough for a future Blu-ray purchase in a year or 2.

A little late to this party but here are my 2 cents on the Sammy HD841. I picked up an open box, actually no box (or remote) at Futureshop for $60 CDN. It is brilliant. I have it hooked up to my Sammy DLP and could not be happier. The only thing I did was update it to the latest firmware on the Sammy website. Perhaps it works best with it's own brand of TV but all I can say is it's the best purchase I have ever made. I have noticed that it upsamples DVD's better to 720p then the DLP does, that is to say it appears to have a better chip inside it then the DLP. The only downside is it's somewhat limited firmware. It cannot tell me how much time is left in a movie and when paused it will not go backwards in slow motion, only forwards. But hey, 720p upsampling for that kind of money leaves me with no complaints.

A little late to this party but here are my 2 cents on the Sammy HD841. I picked up an open box, actually no box (or remote) at Futureshop for $60 CDN. It is brilliant. I have it hooked up to my Sammy DLP and could not be happier. The only thing I did was update it to the latest firmware on the Sammy website. Perhaps it works best with it's own brand of TV but all I can say is it's the best purchase I have ever made. I have noticed that it upsamples DVD's better to 720p then the DLP does, that is to say it appears to have a better chip inside it then the DLP. The only downside is it's somewhat limited firmware. It cannot tell me how much time is left in a movie and when paused it will not go backwards in slow motion, only forwards. But hey, 720p upsampling for that kind of money leaves me with no complaints.

Here is an old thread you may want to look through concerning the 841.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=498380

Does anyone know of a DVD player that upconverts over component, that will play copyrighted movies? Thanks.

By the way, I think you can add the LG LDA-531 to the list (Futureshop.ca sells it here in Canada).

The Momitsu v880 (also is region free and plays both NTSC and PAL)...it's been posted again and again!

;)

dave

Does anyone know of a DVD player that upconverts over component, that will play copyrighted movies? Thanks.

By the way, I think you can add the LG LDA-531 to the list (Futureshop.ca sells it here in Canada).

Samsung HD941 will

I think I misquoted my question - what I wanted to really know was if there was a DVD player that would upconvert copyrighted movies over component. As explained to me in another thread, that is not a possibility. Gah, wish my projector had DVI or HDMI in.

I think I misquoted my question - what I wanted to really know was if there was a DVD player that would upconvert copyrighted movies over component. As explained to me in another thread, that is not a possibility. Gah, wish my projector had DVI or HDMI in.

You didn't misquote. The Samsung HD941 will upconvert copyrighted material over component. Others will also (Zenith 318, Momitsu etc.). I owned a Sammy and played many real copyrighted DVDs at 1080i over component with no problems.

I think I misquoted my question - what I wanted to really know was if there was a DVD player that would upconvert copyrighted movies over component. As explained to me in another thread, that is not a possibility. Gah, wish my projector had DVI or HDMI in.

The Samsun HD841 will also play protected DVD's over component after the hack is applied, which is an easy sequence of buttons to push on the remote.

The Samsun HD841 will also play protected DVD's over component after the hack is applied, which is an easy sequence of buttons to push on the remote.

Awesome, that basically decides it for me then. I'm assuming when you say play, you mean upconvert :)

Thanks dudez.

Awesome, that basically decides it for me then. I'm assuming when you say play, you mean upconvert :)

Thanks dudez.

Sorry. I did mean play copy protected DVD's upconverted over component. I also meant to type Samsung. :D

There are a lot of posts on the application of the hack. I'd give it to you in this post, but I don't remember it off hand.

Hi..

I just set up my new Sony (which I love)...60" SXRD.

I have owned a Panasonic H1000 progressive scan player (currently using the component out). It has no upconversion capability and does not offer DVI out to my HDMI tv.

This was an expensive player in it's day...

Should I purchase the OPPO Digital OPDV971H HD-Ready Upconverting DVD Player?

Will I notice alot of difference? It is a great price and I understand it was rated #1 in a recent shodown.

Thanks for your advice.

Lance

I currently have a Yamakawa 288k/vga going to a 50" RCA DLP HDTV (component to component).

I assume upgrading to an upconverting DVD player will be a major improvement in picture quality?

My TV has DVI input. Should I look for a DVD player with DVI input or will HDMI to DVI be fine?

I recently just purchased a panasonic s97 upconverting DVD player to accompany my HLR-6168 Samsung DLP (1080p). I have the audio connected to a receiver via an optical cable and the video connected directly to the tv via an HDMI cable. Unfortunately I am very displeased with the quality of the video. It seems very grainy and the dark blacks look bad. They look the same no matter what setting I have tried (480,780, and 1080 all look identical). My basic digital cable looks better than the DVD. Can anyone offer any suggestions that can help me improve the quality of my DVD?

THANKS!

The Samsun HD841 will also play protected DVD's over component after the hack is applied, which is an easy sequence of buttons to push on the remote.


power (if off) >angle>4>3>2>7>angle

And you will see "HDCP FREE!" come up on screen briefly.

how come the sammy hd 850 isnt listed here is it the same as the hd841 ?????

Hello everyone.I'm looking for a upscaling DVD player.The two DVD players I've been looking at possibly buying are the Sony DVP-NS975V and the DVP-NS70H.Now I've read about the issues with the 975V and the shift issue with the NS70H.I was at my local "The Good Guys" store and their going out of buisness and have the DVP-975V fpr sale at $183.I was just wondering if it's worth risk to buy this DVD player?Since if I buy this player I cannot return it to the store.So I'd appreciate any help woth trying to decide on which upscaling dvd player to get.