Upconverting DVD Player Options/Impressions [Text View] - Page 7

monkeyphant

08-18-06, 12:10 PM

I have a Euron HDV-1080 HDMI DVD Player (Region Free) that I purchased from YesAsia.Com which I use with my old Panasonic PTL-300U Projector with DVI input:

http://us.yesasia.com/en/PrdDept.aspx/code-c/section-electronics/pid-1004117589/

The Euron has an "HDCP On/Off" option on the HDMI Setup Menu. I use it with HDCP set to "Off" and a DVI/HDMI adaptor.

Pros: Excellant upconverted Picture through HDMI (DVI) and Component without HDCP or CSS Encrpytion.

Cons: No customer support /firmware releases like OppoDigital, (at least none I am aware of). Unproven reliability for the long term. YesAsia.Com return policy.

The Euron (who?), is a crap shoot, but for me it was the cheapest way to go while I wait for the HD DVD issues to stabilize. Besides, I need to save money for a MAJOR upgrade: new preamp/processor, new LCD projector and HD DVD player for HDMI and 1080P. :eek: :eek:

kiwi2000

08-19-06, 11:33 PM

HELP!

I just purchased the Sanyo Z4 and have the Samsung HD 850 DVD player. I have used it previous with another LCD projector with the "hack" enabled and it worked fine. I have tried it today and not only will it not output an upconverted signal the projector will not recognise a component signal from ti. I have another DVD player with component that works fine.

I enabled the hack and gotr the confirmation on screen but it willnot output component either.

Has anyone used this combination?

Do I need to reset the Samsung or what? It works with the composite.

As usual any input appreciated.

jp6940

08-20-06, 02:07 AM

Purchased the HItachi 57F59 CRT projection tv, with the help of members on this forum.
Hooked everything up to my Sony RDR-HX900 and coming into it via standard cable. (we do not watch much cable tv-lots of movies though!!) It is going out via component to the tv. I am pretty sure it is putting out 480 because it is a few years old. Here's where I am a little confused.....The tv supposedly accepts a 1080 input.?
IF I buy a "upconverting" dvd player, I assume it will output 1080 to my tv when I am playing a dvd? It won't upconvert standard cable though, right?
Thanks to anyone who can help me out. By the way, the Hitachi 57F59 is an excellent buy for the money, and has a beautiful picture with a little tweaking. I am more than satsified for a tv under a grand!!! I have heard of issues with the HDMI input on the tv. I am just going to stay with component cables.
My friend "says" that going from s-video to component is a major change in picture quality, but a jump from component to HDMI is marginal. (not a s big of a difference0
True?
What dvd player could you guys recommend? Oppo a good brand? What about Insignia I read on another thread? The player is $60 at Best Buy and is an upconverter....? Any good/bad about this?
Thanks, in advance, for your help!

N'Yeti

08-20-06, 11:27 AM

IF I buy a "upconverting" dvd player, I assume it will output 1080 to my tv when I am playing a dvd? It won't upconvert standard cable though, right?
Thanks to anyone who can help me out. By the way, the Hitachi 57F59 is an excellent buy for the money, and has a beautiful picture with a little tweaking. I am more than satsified for a tv under a grand!!! I have heard of issues with the HDMI input on the tv. I am just going to stay with component cables.
My friend "says" that going from s-video to component is a major change in picture quality, but a jump from component to HDMI is marginal. (not a s big of a difference0
True?
What dvd player could you guys recommend? Oppo a good brand? What about Insignia I read on another thread? The player is $60 at Best Buy and is an upconverter....? Any good/bad about this?
Thanks, in advance, for your help!

1) Differences between component and HDMI? It depends on the DVD player and the TV. Some combos will show little difference, if any. Some, will show a great deal of difference (usually with HDMI being a clearer, more in focus picture).

2) The problem you're going to have is trying to find a DVD player that outputs 1080i through component. There aren't many around (because, it bypasses the copy protection built into the HDMI). By the way, HDMI outputs can be 480i (rare), 480p, 720p, 1080i...

3) Oppo a good brand? Do you mean is the picture of good quality? The 971 scored higher than the $3500 Denon. Oppo regulary updates their firmare and distributes it by website. Is that a good brand? Or do you mean the build? Lots of really solidly made DVD players (the Denons, Elite JVCs, etc) have pictures that are inferior to the Oppo.

'tis your choice

bluto2000gs

08-22-06, 06:31 PM

Hi Folks,
While the "search function" and this thread have been very helpful, I do have a question that may have already been covered.

I have the IF IN72 and it mentions capability up to 1080.
Video Compatibility: Full NTSC, PAL, SECAM, 480i, 480p, 576i, 576p, 720p, 1035i, 1080i, 1080p/24, 1080p/30, 1080p/50, 1080p/60
Will I see a benefit by using an upconvert DVD player?
Should I expect a better picture than compared to component or S-Video from my current player?

Thank you. :confused:

Ross E

08-23-06, 05:47 PM

Personally, I never saw much of a difference with component or S-video. I bought a Samsung upconverting DVD player about 4 months ago. There is a huge difference. Even my wife noticed a huge difference.. My Samsung got "misplaced" during our move. I ordered an Oppo today to replace it.

If you have a DVD capable of upconverting and you arent using it...you really are missing out.

bluto2000gs

08-23-06, 07:41 PM

spatel23

08-27-06, 03:34 AM

Wow, Im pretty confused on a couple of things if anyone could help me understand Id be greatly appreciative.
I have a Tosh RP CRT with only components, getting the Elite VSX82txs and am trying to figure out which player would be good for upconverting via component, doesnt have to be region free, I do need the ability to play burned dvds. Cant stand MB. and Im willing to spend up to $250.

Which way would be best to hook this player up, do I go through the rec since it also has the far. dcdi scaler or go directly to the tv?

bluto2000gs

08-27-06, 09:22 AM

Hi Folks,
While the "search function" and this thread have been very helpful, I do have a question that may have already been covered.

I have the IF IN72 and it mentions capability up to 1080.

Will I see a benefit by using an upconvert DVD player?
Should I expect a better picture than compared to component or S-Video from my current player?

Thank you. :confused:

I bought the very cheap RCA DRC257N at Wal*Mart for 79 bucks.
Iy plays burned discs and has slots for memory cards on the from for pictures and MP3s. ALSO it comes with the HDMI cable!

I noticed a big improvment in picture quality. I went from a 10 year old Sony with S-Video the the RCA with HDMI. Pretty happy with it so far.

salehdidit

08-27-06, 01:11 PM

...
IF I buy a "upconverting" dvd player, I assume it will output 1080 to my tv when I am playing a dvd? It won't upconvert standard cable though, right?
...

I had the same question (whether there is any way to (cheaply) upconvert SD from my cable box). Is there any player that can do this? I think some audio receivers can do this, but they're way out of my budget.

thanks in advance!

Johnsad1

08-28-06, 01:38 PM

Hey guys,
I just purchased a Samsung LNS4095D 1080P LCD and am looking for an upconverting DVD Player. I know that OPPO is supposedly the best bang for your buck right now but I would like to take advantage of my screens capabilities (without going to blu-ray). To this end I have been looking at the samsung DVD-HD960 upconverting player. It claims to display at near 1080p, however I have heard of problems with its load times. Does anyone have anything to say about this player? Also I have an Xbox 360 and in a few months Microsoft will be release their HD DVD add on. Does anyone know if this will upconvert normal DVDs as well?

Thanks

Gary J

08-28-06, 02:15 PM

Does your Samsung not upconvert SD DVDs well?

Johnsad1

08-28-06, 03:07 PM

I'm sure it may. Actually I have an e-mail out to Samsung asking them that question at the present time. My job involves a lot of travelling so I'm not home very much. When I am I don't necessarily want to be figuring out all of the settings needed. Obviously if someone knows the setting I need, or if it does upconversion automatically please let me know. By the way when I say I'm rarely home I mean that I'm there 2 nights a week. Also upon doing some further research, I am finding people saying that they can upconvert with the 360 and the optional VGA cord. I may check that out first but all information that you guys have is highly appreciated.

Thanks

Gary J

08-28-06, 03:12 PM

My Samsung 720p DLP upconverts automatically. In fact it does it so well I don't even use progressive scan on the DVD player.

kiwi2000

08-28-06, 03:55 PM

Ross E wrote
Personally, I never saw much of a difference with component or S-video. I bought a Samsung upconverting DVD player about 4 months ago. There is a huge difference. Even my wife noticed a huge difference..
___________________________________________________________

I have a 90's ish Panasonic DVD player viewed thrugh component and through the hype on this thread purchased a Samsung HD 850 upconverting DVD player this year. The only thing I notice now is that I do not use it preferring the quality picture on my old Panasonic. The Samsung offers a smoother picture when set to 1080i or 720P but the loss of detail, sharpness, gradiation of color, ergonimics etc, etc, etc do not make up for an inferior machine and picture. The upconverting feature is a nice option but the rest of the package has to function as well.

Johnsad1

08-28-06, 04:44 PM

Hey Guys,
I'm dumb. Upon looking closer at my TV specs I noticed that its not a VGA input, but an RGB input. I know that this is not an xbox 360 thread but will I get the same upconverting quality out of an RGB that i would from a VGA?

Thanks

Gary J

08-28-06, 05:09 PM

Many times better.

Johnsad1

08-28-06, 05:37 PM

Gary,
What do you mean by many times better. Are you saying that the RGB inputs are better than VGA? Unfortunately it appeasr that the RGA cables used by Microsoft (SCART cables) are only available in Europe. I am going to call Microsoft tonight and see whats up. Nothing is ever easy huh? Oh well i guess its my fault for not doing all this upconversion research before buying my HDTV.

Thanks once again.

Gary J

08-28-06, 06:16 PM

VGA is very old. Current standard is SVGA or XVGA. RGB will pass full resolution. Google it.

watsonusn

08-29-06, 12:39 AM

Ive had a Samsung HL-S5087W for a week now, & ive tried a sony dvp-ns71hp (Costco version of the ns75) & i wasnt impressed at all. My 360 put out a better picture on dvds even after tweaking all the settings i could.
I just picked up a Onkyo DV-SP404 from CC tonight & its features alone are much much better. I particularly like the ability to up the voice & low level sounds that tend to be lost. (I didnt know you actually make out everything that the little girl is singing in the very beginning of Pirates). The picture is sharper than the Sony & has more Depth.
I am also going to pick up the Panasonic DVDS52S (or DVDS52K if i can find one), to see if the Onkyo is worth the extra $$$. If i could find a local oppo to borrow, ill through that one in there as well.
But for now, the Onkyo is kickin sony's butt on my DLP.

bigsnyder

08-29-06, 08:22 AM

VGA is very old. Current standard is SVGA or XVGA. RGB will pass full resolution. Google it.

Yes that is correct, but the name of the connector hasn't changed. It is still labeled
VGA port by most manufactures.

C Snyder

bluto2000gs

08-29-06, 05:03 PM

Upconvert question:
My IN72 is a 480 native pj but is capable of displaying up to 1080.
Is thier any rule of thumb as to what I should set the dvd player to?
480,720, or 1080? Will I see a benefit to setting it to a higher res?

Sometimes the pj goes black and I have to change the res on the dvd player to a lower setting.

bluto2000gs

08-29-06, 05:03 PM

Steve L

08-29-06, 05:11 PM

Upconvert question:
My IN72 is a 480 native pj but is capable of displaying up to 1080.
Is there any rule of thumb as to what I should set the dvd player to?
480,720, or 1080? Will I see a benefit to setting it to a higher res?

In theory, sending the IN72 its native resolution of 480p should be the optimum setting because it requires no further manipulation of the image data.

In practice, you might want to compare 480p to 720p and see if you see a difference. I definitely wouldn't recommend 1080i, however. That would require two additional scalings (instead of just one at 720p).

/steve

bluto2000gs

08-29-06, 06:20 PM

Thanks Steve that makes sense.
It is very hard to compare teh images. There so much lag time while the pj searches for teh new HDMI image.

I think I'll try both 480 and 720.

icin235

08-30-06, 06:38 PM

I own a Vizio 37 inch LCD HDTV.

I have a sony 5 disc progressive scan dvd player that came with my home theater system 3 years ago. This player is hooked up via component cables.

I bought the newer sony 5 disc progressive scan dvd player which "upconverts" and has an HDMI output.

I hooked up the new player and set it to output 720P via the HDMI cable.

I played the same 2 films on both players at the same time and randomly switched between the two inputs.

Most of the time, the image quality seemed identical. Once in a while, you'd see a little more gradation from the HDMI input, but it was really rare. Once in a while, it almost seemed like the older dvd player gave a cleaner image.

The only time the upconverting player made a significant difference is during the scene in Episode IV where luke stares out at the dual suns. The older player had some trouble with the red sun. It was cleaner out of the HDMI. But... that's about it.

I would say they are virtually identical. 99% of people will not see a difference between the two players.

I'm sticking to my old player for now.

65T500

09-02-06, 12:43 PM

Gary J

09-02-06, 01:21 PM

Your HDTV is doing a better job of upscaling than the DVD player even through component. This is not unusual. It is a crap-shoot whether DVI is any better or even as good.

Anagoge

09-02-06, 01:54 PM

I thought I would share my experience with an earlier upconverting DVD player and a recently purchased plasma.

DVD Player: Denon DVD-1910; This was Denon's first inexpensive upconverting DVI player and comes with Faroudja's FLI-2301 DCDi chip. This was bought 1-2 years ago.
Plasma: Panasonic TH-42PX60U, manufactured this month, latest firmware.

I was getting horrible macroblocking issues in scenes such as the the black background with white text interlude scenes ("Sunday", "Monday") in Sideways, such as at the very beginning of chapters 4 and 8. I changed the Denon to output 720P instead of 1080i and now those artifacts are all gone.

Steve L

09-02-06, 05:32 PM

I just connected an Oppo 971 to my Hitachi 65 inch RPTV. I used the DVI out directly into the tv on video 1 and the connected my 3 year old Sony DVPNS725p to Vid 2 using component cables. The TV has never been calibrated. The Sony always had a sharp picture to my eye.

I saw NO difference between the Sony 480p/component vs 720p/1080i on DVI when it came to resolution. What I did notice was the Oppo picture seemed to be softer/filtered/washed out(I'm not sure of the correct terminology).

When I watched U571 and The Incredibles the colors on the Oppo seemed bland compared to the Sony. The dress white Navy uniform was not as White as the Sony. On The Incredibles, the colors where brighter on the Sony. The Oppo picture just seemed like I was watching it thru a filter. Does that make any sense? Again, the TV was never calibrated so maybe the Sony is just to bright and I am used to it after 3 years.

The Hitachi is HDTV ready so it is just a monitor and am I correct in saying it has no scaler? If so, it seems the scaler on the 480p Sony is just as good as the Oppo.

The digital and component inputs on many displays often require different calibration for brightness, contrast and color. You should use either the AVIA or Digital Video Essentials DVD to calibrate each input to each player BEFORE you compare the two players, or you may be comparing apples to oranges.

Also, many DVI-enabled displays have configuration options for either PC or RGB input. Check your Hitachi manual to see if offers this choice, and, if so, make sure it's set to RGB. My last display with this option was set to PC by default.

Lastly, unless your display is 480p native, it must have a built-in scaler to map the 480p up to the display's native resolution. If it is 480p native, then you will see little benefit from an upconverting player.

/steve

65T500

09-02-06, 11:50 PM

Lastly, unless your display is 480p native, it must have a built-in scaler to map the 480p up to the display's native resolution. If it is 480p native, then you will see little benefit from an upconverting player.

/steve

How do I know what the native resolution is? Please look at the attched pdf and tell me what it is.

Thanks

Steve L

09-03-06, 07:32 AM

How do I know what the native resolution is? Please look at the attched pdf and tell me what it is.

Your Hitachi is a CRT-based projector with a claimed resolution of 1280 lines, so in theory it could benefit from an upconverting player. From what I've observed, however, rear or front projection technology produces an inherently softer (but sometimes more pleasing) picture than LCD or plamsa, which makes it more difficult to see the benefits of an increase in resolution over the set's built-in scaler. This might be the reason you saw no difference in detail.

What you might observe with the Oppo (at 480p or 720p) is superior Faroudja de-interlacing, compared to the Sony. You might try pausing a scene that has a close-up of a round edge and look for the presence or absence of jaggies in the picture, among other things to look for.

Once again, it's important to calibrate both players to the same test discs before comparing. When you're observing de-interlacer performance, e.g., it's helpful if both players sharpness settings have been calibrated to the same standard.

/steve

65T500

09-03-06, 01:36 PM

They are both now calibrated to the THX setup on The Incredibles. I really don't see any difference as both pics are very sharp. I will check the jagged edges but If I dont see them on either machine during normal play I don't really think i t matters to me if I see it on pause(except when I'm watching porn of course)-joke.

DOES anyone have specific scenes from movies where I could look for and compare macroblocking?

I'm 99% sure the Oppo is going back. My 3 year old 480P Sony seems to be doing an excellent job.

Bumsi

09-03-06, 03:52 PM

Can anyone tell me which is the latest and best Oppo unit? I see they have a DV-971H and a OPDV-970HD. Comments on quality appreciated.

wmcclain

09-03-06, 04:35 PM

Can anyone tell me which is the latest and best Oppo unit? I see they have a DV-971H and a OPDV-970HD. Comments on quality appreciated.

It depends. Both have their strengths. The Oppo web page has a comparison chart showing recommended uses. The 970 is the more recent model.

The 971 is only recommended for its DVI port; not component. The 970 has good HDMI and component.

The 971 has Faroudja, which some like and some don't. It has DVD-A but not SACD; the 970 has both.

The 970 optionally produces 480i over HDMI. The 971 starts at 480p over DVI.

I'm happy with my 971, but I have recommended the 970 to friends when I thought it would serve them well. Rumor has it the 971 will be replaced this year with a model that replaces the DVI port with HDMI and adds SACD. No word from Oppo on this.

-Bill

afinegold

09-03-06, 04:51 PM

Hi all,

I'm about to order a recently introduced Samsung DVD-VR345 DVD recorder/VCR combo unit. Is this the right or best thread to get info and advice and ask questions, or is there another one that might be more appropriate? Thanks, Al--

65T500

09-03-06, 05:17 PM

Bumsi,

What dvd player do u have now? How is it connected to your TV? What TV do u have? LCD,DLP, RPTV?

Bumsi

09-04-06, 12:26 PM

Bumsi,

What dvd player do u have now? How is it connected to your TV? What TV do u have? LCD,DLP, RPTV?

I have an older Panasonic DVD-RV 32. At present I am connecting via componet due to this player's available connections. Television is a Sony KDF 42WE655 LCD/RP, which is also about 2 years old but has an HDMI connection.

I'm trying to get the most picture for my $$$ without going broke :)

After reading the other comments about native resolution, ect. (and having no clue about this stuff). Will I benefit from this units upscaling? Do I have better options?

Thanks for everyones assistance.

javry

09-04-06, 03:56 PM

It depends. ............The 971 is only recommended for its DVI port; not component. The 970 has good HDMI and component..............
-Bill

I would have to agree. Though I have not tried the 970 yet, I can tell you through painstaking trial and error that the component outpput of the 971 is among the worst I've ever seen

bluejam

09-08-06, 10:13 PM

I just got a cheapo Samsung-R135 upconverting player/recorder. So far, I am unhappy with it.

The PQ is just OK, and worse, the audio is slightly out of sync.

I went through the various resolutions and find the 1080i setting the same as the others.
I am hooked via HDMI to my new Hitachi 55HDT79 plasma and audio via optical to my receiver.

Please help.

rm100

09-09-06, 10:18 AM

Hi Guys,

I was reading one of the review on cnet about upconverting dvd player. It says that upconversion can also done in HDTV. I recently bought Sony DVR RDRGX330, which doesn't have this feature. I am planning to buy panasonic plasma 42PH9UK in couple of weeks. I am happy with this dvr so far. Should I replace this dvr with upconverting one? Does all HD plasma have this feature?

Thanks.

dbalder000

09-09-06, 02:21 PM

If I'm reading these threads correctly, buying an upconverter DVD Player will not buy me much.. Is this correct or am I not getting a "clear picture"? No pun intended. I have a Panny 42PX60U.

kdaniel

09-09-06, 04:53 PM

It depends. Both have their strengths. The Oppo web page has a comparison chart showing recommended uses. The 970 is the more recent model.

The 971 is only recommended for its DVI port; not component. The 970 has good HDMI and component.

The 971 has Faroudja, which some like and some don't. It has DVD-A but not SACD; the 970 has both.

The 970 optionally produces 480i over HDMI. The 971 starts at 480p over DVI.

I'm happy with my 971, but I have recommended the 970 to friends when I thought it would serve them well. Rumor has it the 971 will be replaced this year with a model that replaces the DVI port with HDMI and adds SACD. No word from Oppo on this.

-Bill
So with a new Mit 6581 series and/or any of the new 1080P sets are you better off with the 970 Oppo?

wmcclain

09-10-06, 11:10 AM

So with a new Mit 6581 series and/or any of the new 1080P sets are you better off with the 970 Oppo?

I'm not familiar with that model. I would not say categorically that either player is better than the other for 1080p sets, which must vary widely in their capabilities.

I use a 971 with the 1080p Westinghouse 37w3.

-Bill

kdaniel

09-10-06, 11:35 AM

I meant WD-65831.

HowieA

09-11-06, 01:11 PM

Hi all,
Long time forum lurker and first time poster.

I have really been enjoying all the great info I have taken away from this forum and hope to gain more as my AV obsession continues to grow. The only thing keeping me in check is my wallet. As I am sure most of you experienced one time or another.

I recently picked up a Sony KDF-50E2000 and I have been enjoying my local cable HD channels through my Scientific Atlanta PVR (Explorer 8300HD). I cant wait for this years season of LOST. This is my first HDTV. As of right now I have been using my Xbox 360 to view movies through the component cables. The PQ in games are GREAT, but the movies in that player are just not cutting it. The setting in the menu is set to 720P and I am pretty sure that only holds true for the dashboard and in game. In other words I don’t think there is any up converting going on for the movies.

I also own a Sony DVD DVP-NS400D and have yet to try it. I have been fighting the urge of wanting to buy the Oppo 971H that I have been reading a lot about here and there. The reason I wanted to wait is for the rumored 971H with the True HDMI not the current DVI -> HDMI ..

Get to the point already…. : )
My questions are this:

1) Do you think I might be better off trying that older Sony DVD player through the component to hold me over till I hear more about the new 971H?

2) Is there anything more then a rumor about this new player? A possible street date? A way to preorder? Is it confirmed to have that Faroudja Chip?

3) Do any of you know about any conflicts or possible know problems when pairing the Oppo with a Sony Kdf-50E2000? (which from what I understand is basically the same as the 50A10 from previous years just lacking the DVI now adding an extra HDMI)

Any info on the TV/DVD pairing would be much appreciated? If there is a better place for this post please feel free to let me know?

Thanks to all, Howie

HowieA

09-12-06, 08:07 PM

I guess my post was a bit too specific? It brought this thread to a screeching halt…

Gary J

09-12-06, 08:25 PM

All you can do is try it in your particular setup. Many people have found the picture upconverted by their TV from a regular 480i or 480p DVD player superior to an upconverting DVD player.

BobKat6

09-13-06, 03:06 AM

I have really been enjoying all the great info I have taken away from this forum and hope to gain more as my AV obsession continues to grow. The only thing keeping me in check is my wallet. As I am sure most of you experienced one time or another.

If you want to tinker with a Faroudja based upconverting player that can be used via HDMI or component, the LG DVB418 is available refurbished on eBay for $70.00 delivered. The thread for this unit is extensive as is the support available.

HowieA

09-13-06, 12:14 PM

If you want to tinker with a Faroudja based upconverting player that can be used via HDMI or component, the LG DVB418 is available refurbished on eBay for $70.00 delivered. The thread for this unit is extensive as is the support available.

Its great to hear that there are other players out there in my price range. How did this player do in its reviews as far as PQ? That is my main worry. For $70 bucks I might have to give that one a shot. Thanks again Bobkat.

BobKat6

09-13-06, 11:49 PM

Its great to hear that there are other players out there in my price range. How did this player do in its reviews as far as PQ? That is my main worry. For $70 bucks I might have to give that one a shot. Thanks again Bobkat.

I never saw a review on this player. At the time I was looking for any player capable of upscaling over a component interface and this one was the most readily available. I see no difference in PQ comparing it to the HD picture of my SA 8300HD (same as yours I think) on Comcast Cable.

Good luck.
Bob

bimmerguy288

09-21-06, 05:56 PM

Hi All,

Newbie here. Great forum. I can use some suggestions for connections of the following components:

TV: Samsung HL-S5087W 50" 1080p DLP (two HDMI inputs, one of which will be connected to the HDTV set top box from Verizon Fios TV)

Receiver: Yamaha RX-V4600 (with HDMI input and output)

DVD player: Sony DVPNS75H (with HDMI out)

What's the best connection for them.

Thanks in advance,

Bimmerguy

Gary J

09-21-06, 06:19 PM

Is there some reason you can not try both ways and see for yourself?

bimmerguy288

09-21-06, 06:35 PM

Well, I don't have the TV set and the DVD player in my house yet. They are still in transit. I guess I am getting a little anxious. Thanks though.

Gary J

09-21-06, 06:38 PM

It is going to be the best way. Everyone's setup and eyes vary.

bimmerguy288

09-21-06, 07:05 PM

It is going to be the best way. Everyone's setup and eyes vary.

So should I connect the DVD player directly to the TV via HDMI for the video signal and then connect the DVD player to the receiver for audio (is this even doable?)?

or should I just send both video and audio signals from the DVD player to the receiver via HDMI and then connect the receiver and the T? via HDMI?

I know little about these stuff.

Thanks,

Bimmerguy

Gary J

09-21-06, 07:27 PM

Connect to the receiver. There will be no signal loss since it is digital all the way. It will also make switching sources easier.

bimmerguy288

09-21-06, 07:39 PM

Connect to the receiver. There will be no signal loss since it is digital all the way. It will also make switching sources easier.

OK, Thanks much for your help.

Bimmerguy.

Gary J

09-21-06, 07:46 PM

Enjoy!

Anubys

09-22-06, 06:35 AM

So should I connect the DVD player directly to the TV via HDMI for the video signal and then connect the DVD player to the receiver for audio (is this even doable?)?

or should I just send both video and audio signals from the DVD player to the receiver via HDMI and then connect the receiver and the T? via HDMI?

I know little about these stuff.

Thanks,

Bimmerguy

a little off-topic, but what the heck...

you should also look into a universal remote to handle all the switching between the various units...I have a Harmony remote 676 and I love it...switching from DVD player to Tivo to playstation to *gasp* VCR is just one button click...

there are many type of remotes...so search the forum for advice on them (I'm only telling you about what I have, not all your options)...

bimmerguy288

09-22-06, 08:53 AM

a little off-topic, but what the heck...

you should also look into a universal remote to handle all the switching between the various units...I have a Harmony remote 676 and I love it...switching from DVD player to Tivo to playstation to *gasp* VCR is just one button click...

there are many type of remotes...so search the forum for advice on them (I'm only telling you about what I have, not all your options)...

I will look into it. Thanks.

Robertg7

09-26-06, 04:35 PM

be careful as you move along with the DVI to HDMI thing. I don't know how old your TV is but if still has DVI inputs, it may be pre-HDCP. You might want to check and see. If it's not HDCP, it probably wouldn't do you a whole lot of good to purchase a player with HDMI because it will be HDCP compliant and probably won't handshake with your TV. The Oppo 971H is region free and upconverts through DVI [non-HDCP]....at least that's the way it was when I bought mine a coupe of years ago. The 970 upconverts also but through HDMI [HDCP].
Alert!...I had my Oppo 971H connected via dvi to my Sharp LC37D90U lcd dvi input and the picture (after a few weeks) started showing almost florescent colors. I emailed Oppo and their response: "The OPDV971H will only transmit a Studio RGB 4:2:0 signal. There is no way to change this. Thus, you must change the ColorSpace on your HDTV display to match the RGB 4:2:0 signal of the OPDV971H. If you cannot change the dvi Colorspace on your HDTV display to match, then you must try the dvi-hdmi cable and change your hdmi HDTV display ColorSpace if possible.

There is no option on the Sharp LC37D90U to change the dvi ColorSpace to RGB; it is only possible to change the hdmi ColorSpace to RGB. This is what I did, using the dvi-hdmi cable and the picture is fine. I suggested to Oppo that they post this caveat in their manual.

starcrossedpimp

09-28-06, 06:42 PM

hey guys just joine dthe forum and was wondering if there is an HDCP hack out there for a philips dvp 5960? ive searched all over and if anyone would know it, it would be you guys.

BobKat6

09-29-06, 02:06 AM

hey guys just joine dthe forum and was wondering if there is an HDCP hack out there for a philips dvp 5960? ive searched all over and if anyone would know it, it would be you guys.

Check the specific thread for this player under:

Video Components>DVD Players (Standard Def)>Philips DVP 5960 HDMI DIVX player.

It's on page 2 about 8th from the top.

vettebob54

09-29-06, 05:09 PM

Gary J

09-29-06, 05:15 PM

Betcha I could A-B a $50 player with it and you couldn't tell me which is which.

N'Yeti

09-29-06, 08:35 PM

The Marantz has a nice sturdy feel. It's got the weight. It's got the look. It may be a Pioneer inside. It may be a Panasonic inside. (wow, it's like a detective novel!).

If you want a player that will produce good video...check out the DVD Shootout scores at: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all&type=&manufacturer=0&maxprice=0&deInt=0&mpeg=0

You do want to use it don't you?

kiwi2000

09-30-06, 05:52 PM

I have the Samsung 850 DVD player connnected to a LCD projector via HDMI. My problem is I cannot display the entire spectrum for black to white through this connection.
The Samsung has 4 settings for HDMI that are adjustable in addition to a 5 step brightness control.
The settings are;
RGB Normal
RGB Enhanced
YPBR 4:4:4
YPBR 4:4:2

Which setting should I use the manual does not explain the settings.

If I set the player to between 1-3 brightness the grayscale is smooth and linear but the three black bars in the pluge test only the first two are visible. If I increase the brightness on the player to between 4-5 the three black bars are visible but the last three or four white sections on the reverse gray scale test are crushed and blended together.

I have tried variations of the projector brightness and contrast etc. in addition to varying the setting of the player. What setting should I have the player on for this configuration? Any idesa how to get the full spectrum?
Thanks

javry

10-02-06, 02:26 PM

I need some professional advise guys, i was pricing the new tv, surround system and upconverting DVD player today. I was planning on spending about $150.00 for the DVD but the salesman at the home theater store said those a junk and is telling me i need the Marantz DV6600 at the cost of $500.00? So question is this necessary or am I just getting steered to unnecessarily expensive equipment? I was planning on this being a middle stop between my DVD player now and the HD or BlueRay once those are more common place>

Thanks for the advise

A lot of it depends on what you're planning on doing with the player. For instance, is it purely for movies or does audio [SACD/DVDA] play into the picture? Are you wanting to upscale [say to 720p or 1080p]? For the price you're wanting to pay, why not just go with an Oppo (http://www.oppodigital.com/?partner=111)? Both the 971H and the 970 will work.....though most articles and/or discussions give the 971 a slight edge. It makes sense that your dealer doesn't know about it since it's only sold online. The only thing you would have to be careful about whith this unit is:

1. DVI/HDMI is the only way to go with this player.

2. The component out is just plain no good.

naps9600

10-03-06, 05:55 PM

Quicky question. If I have a pioneer VSX-81TXV receiver that upconverts to 1080p, do I still need a upconverting dvd player? If not, anyone recommend a good dvd player with usb input and plays divx. thanks.

Gary J

10-03-06, 06:14 PM

Not unless it upconverts better than the receiver. The only way to know that is to try it.

lastxbr960

10-07-06, 09:09 AM

mrsmith

10-10-06, 02:47 PM

A lot of it depends on what you're planning on doing with the player. For instance, is it purely for movies or does audio [SACD/DVDA] play into the picture? Are you wanting to upscale [say to 720p or 1080p]? For the price you're wanting to pay, why not just go with an Oppo (http://www.oppodigital.com/?partner=111)? Both the 971H and the 970 will work.....though most articles and/or discussions give the 971 a slight edge. It makes sense that your dealer doesn't know about it since it's only sold online. The only thing you would have to be careful about whith this unit is:

1. DVI/HDMI is the only way to go with this player.

2. The component out is just plain no good.
Here's an interesting comparison of upconversion
capabilities of two very different DVD players:

http://dvd.themanroom.com/dvd-newsview.php?id=0058

One is a 2006 model, the other 2003. This is a long article
and the direct comparison occurs under the heading 'How Does
The Picture Look?'

Hope this information may be of value.

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

BobKat6

10-10-06, 07:05 PM

Here's an interesting comparison of upconversion
capabilities of two very different DVD players:

http://dvd.themanroom.com/dvd-newsview.php?id=0058

One is a 2006 model, the other 2003. This is a long article
and the direct comparison occurs under the heading 'How Does
The Picture Look?'

Hope this information may be of value.

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

I'd love to see a comparison of an HD-DVD disk to an upconverted standard DVD.

wmcclain

10-10-06, 07:55 PM

I'd love to see a comparison of an HD-DVD disk to an upconverted standard DVD.

There have been a series of snapshot comparisons in the HD DVD player forum, for example:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=730533

-Bill

bimmerguy288

10-10-06, 08:18 PM

Finally I got a chance to enjoy my new setup: Sony DVPNS75H dvd player to Yamaha RX4600 receiver (by hdmi), then from the Yamaha to a Samsung HLS-5087 1080p DLP (by hdmi). The color is very nice. The picture is close to HD quality but doesn't quite have the "depth" or "crisp" of a good HD channel like Discovery HD. If you know what I mean. But for $115, I am a happy camper. In fact I just bought another one for my bedroom. To my surprise, the Sony also plays PAL format dvds. :cool:

BobKat6

10-11-06, 12:01 AM

There have been a series of snapshot comparisons in the HD DVD player forum, for example:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=730533

-Bill

Thanks Bill. Looks like the picture on the HD- DVD is well worth the investment. Now I just have to wait for my component only HDTV to die, or, check the player thread for hacks.

Bob

rdjam

10-11-06, 01:08 AM

Big Worms

10-11-06, 11:32 AM

The Toshiba HD DVD players are far batter than anything I've owned at upscaling. No comparison.

Full respect to the man room, I'm not sure if their April comparison would be called thorough even by themselves... MUch more has been said since to the Toshibas' advantage.
Yep. I exchanged my Sony DVPNS75H for the Toshiba HD DVD. With my Samsung 5687 it just does an amazing job at upconverting.

mrsmith

10-11-06, 03:33 PM

I'd love to see a comparison of an HD-DVD disk to an upconverted standard DVD.
Saw just that at a high-end video store in
Orange County(CA):

The hi-def version of 'Serenity' on a hi-def
player to the right, and the standard
version on a $129 Panasonic upcon
player to the left, both 55-inch-plus displays.

There were five of us watching, including
two of the store's own personnel. We were
all surprised that the difference was
essentially nothing: the hi-def had
slightly better resolution, color
saturation and contrast, but that
was about it. So go figure.

I was astounded that the store would
do this, as I understand that the
manufacturers purportedly pay a
stipend to just preclude this
kind of occurrence.

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

Beaker1024

10-11-06, 04:21 PM

I have heard that the Serenity HD disk transfer is one of the worst out of all the HD DVDs.

redjr

10-11-06, 04:35 PM

Saw just that at a high-end video store in
Orange County(CA):

The hi-def version of 'Serenity' on a hi-def
player to the right, and the standard
version on a $129 Panasonic upcon
player to the left, both 55-inch-plus displays.

There were five of us watching, including
two of the store's own personnel. We were
all surprised that the difference was
essentially nothing: the hi-def had
slightly better resolution, color
saturation and contrast, but that
was about it. So go figure.

I was astounded that the store would
do this, as I understand that the
manufacturers purportedly pay a
stipend to just preclude this
kind of occurrence.

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com
Were they the very same make/model of 55" TV? Were the TVs 'setup' properly? Was the configuration of each player setup correctly? Seems to me, many unknown factors still remain. Therefore, can the conclusion be an accurate one? I'm not doubting what you saw, it's just that I would hesitate to accept the conclusion as fact without knowing more about both TVs, setups and configurations.

redjr... :)

ps. And I just went and bought an XA1...Geesh! [shakes head sadly and walks away...]

redjr

10-11-06, 04:41 PM

I have heard that the Serenity HD disk transfer is one of the worst out of all the HD DVDs.
That certainly explains it! But, then I have heard that Serenity is considered a 'reference' HD-DVD. Go figure. :confused: I just bought Serenity too. :( [shakes head and keeps walking...]

redjr....

maxleung

10-11-06, 04:48 PM

Serenity is quite grainy, so the differences are subtle. The way the entire film is shot makes it very very hard for the layman to see the difference.

I've seen screenshots of Serenity broadcast in HD (not the HD-DVD, but a 12 megabit/sec mpeg2 hidef version) versus the region 1 DVD, and the difference is easy to see side-by-side on a good display (a computer monitor at high resolution). The space battle near the end is much more detailed compared to the DVD.

Gary J

10-11-06, 05:28 PM

If the pictures are even close somebody explain to me why anyone would buy a HD player especially since they can only play half the movies put out?

Chris Gerhard

10-11-06, 06:17 PM

If the pictures are even close somebody explain to me why anyone would buy a HD player especially since they can only play half the movies put out?

Anyone that wants high definition will like HD DVD. I believe HD DVD looks much better when the comparison is a fair one, but I still love DVD and can watch DVD without complaint. If someone wants to display both to make the difference minimal, that is easy to accomplish as well.

Chris

mrsmith

10-12-06, 03:38 PM

Were they the very same make/model of 55" TV? Were the TVs 'setup' properly? Was the configuration of each player setup correctly? Seems to me, many unknown factors still remain. Therefore, can the conclusion be an accurate one? I'm not doubting what you saw, it's just that I would hesitate to accept the conclusion as fact without knowing more about both TVs, setups and configurations.

redjr... :)

ps. And I just went and bought an XA1...Geesh! [shakes head sadly and walks away...]
Yes, they were identical Mitsubishis, and the ambient lighting, etc., was perfect in this high-end shop. The result however was generally consistent with professional reviews and assessments from Los Angeles Times Research, and Pogue in the New York Times. The gist of these were that the image quality from the optical hi-def formats was very good, but required really large screens to be readily noticeable. That in turn, begs the question(as raised in the L.A. Times review of Samsung/Blu-Ray), is the difference worth so much more? So far, based upon the 'slow sales' reported 9/17/06 by the Reuters news service, and Warner Brothers forcast this week of a 50% drop in hi-def sales estimates for the rest of this year, the public seems to be saying no.

I'm a firm believer that some sort of prevalent hi-def format will emerge sooner or later. But the problems seen so far appear to put this out at least two years, and by then the 1-terabyte format(already on the horizon) may be in place along with VOD which on a mass scale would be able to offer movie downloads for as little as 99-cents, matching CD downloads. If the latter comes to pass, owning disks may be superfluous.

If I were in the market for an inexpensive upconverting replacement player today, I'd grab the $399 everyday price(and no shipping fee) via Amazon for the HD-A1, and look at it this way: even if it should turn out that Blu-Ray should ultimately prevail, you've still got one of the best upconverting players for the money(the Momitsu V800-series which use a year-2002 chip cost upwards of $350). I've looked at the competing upcon players, including the Panasonic and the Samsung HD960, which at about $129 and $169 MSRP respectively, still aren't quite up to the upconversion of the HD-A1, so the $200 extra may well be worth it.

Don't think you made a mistake in your purchase no-how.

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

mrsmith

10-12-06, 03:52 PM

If the pictures are even close somebody explain to me why anyone would buy a HD player especially since they can only play half the movies put out?
1: Not many are, based upon the 9/17/06 Reuters news service report, and Warner Brothers this week dropping its 2006 hi-def sales forecaset by 50%;

2: For those who are buying it, even as an inexpensive upconverting player(probably one of the best for the money), the $399 everyday Amazon price(and no shipping charge) for the HD-A1 makes this worth looking into. The price premium of around $200 over the Samsung HD960 and the Panasonic may well be worth it; good as they are, the upcon quality from the Toshiba is still the best bang for the buck for this purpose without getting into the really high-end merchandise.

For $399, that's why the HD-A1 is a good, cheap deal. Worse comes to worse, and if Blu-Ray should prevail, you've still got one helluva good upcon unit, and also if you choose to, you have the warm feeling of putting $25-plus MSRP for hi-def disks into the pockets of the movie studios(and what could be better than that?)

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

rdjam

10-13-06, 12:26 AM

What's interesting is that Warner pointed their finger indirectly at Bluray for the adjustment in the figures - stating it was because the players didn't come out that were supposed to.

By most accounts they have been very satisfied with the HD DVD sales.

I'm with Milt - go with the HD DVD player, it is easily the best upscaling I have ever seen from a standalon player. And you get a free HD DVD player to boot...

aspenj

10-13-06, 02:01 PM

Anyone have opinions on the best upconverting DVD players for under $200. I'm not ready to choose between Blu-Ray or HD DVD yet, so want to keep the price reasonable.

wmcclain

10-13-06, 02:11 PM

Anyone have opinions on the best upconverting DVD players for under $200. I'm not ready to choose between Blu-Ray or HD DVD yet, so want to keep the price reasonable.

The Oppo 970 ($150) and 971 ($200) have many fans. I'm pleased with my 971.

Oppo site: http://www.oppodigital.com/

Reviews here for many models (mostly regarding deinterlacing rather than scaling, but informative):
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi

-Bill

redjr

10-13-06, 04:08 PM

Anyone have opinions on the best upconverting DVD players for under $200. I'm not ready to choose between Blu-Ray or HD DVD yet, so want to keep the price reasonable.
Oppo 970/971 models.

redjr...

user7800

10-21-06, 12:16 PM

Is it fair to say that up-convert DVD players are really nothing more but a DVD player with a DIGITAL OUTPUT?

Fussy viewer

10-21-06, 04:23 PM

Is it fair to say that up-convert DVD players are really nothing more but a DVD player with a DIGITAL OUTPUT?

Obviously you've never seen good results from one. When they properly scale a good DVD up to the native resolution of an HD display, like 720p, you might be amazed.

Gary J

10-21-06, 06:07 PM

You might be equally amazed by a good upscaling of a TV from a regular DVD.

Fussy viewer

10-21-06, 07:04 PM

You might be equally amazed by a good upscaling of a TV from a regular DVD.

I meant a good quality transfer of course . And I think you meant "to a TV" :)

Gary J

10-21-06, 07:31 PM

I meant by a TV.

user7800

10-21-06, 08:06 PM

Obviously you've never seen good results from one. When they properly scale a good DVD up to the native resolution of an HD display, like 720p, you might be amazed.

Well I have a Sony model and it looks no different then a xbox 360 unless I use HDMI,and its only a little better.

Fussy viewer

10-22-06, 12:06 AM

I meant by a TV.

In my case the DVD player (Oppo) does it much better than the TV (Samsung).

Floyd R. Turbo

10-22-06, 12:53 AM

5150zx

10-22-06, 03:27 PM

I apologize for not read all 54 pages of this thread. I love avsforum but sometimes my brain freezes up from all the reading!

I'm looking for an affordable upconverting, hdmi, dvd/cd carousel CHANGER (5 or 6). Does it exist??

Thanks...

Try the Sony '85' DVD changer. HDMI upconversion
for around $150.00. I doubt you'll be disappointed.

varaonaid

10-22-06, 05:13 PM

Gary J

10-22-06, 05:18 PM

You betcha. Search the thread for component.

N'Yeti

10-22-06, 05:25 PM

varaonaid

10-22-06, 05:41 PM

Didn't you ask this elsewhere? Anyway, it's a pretty common question. The answer, if you are talking about mainstream players is...no. There are some hacks available for some (and there, mostly older models from last year or earlier see some Zenith/LG or Samsung models). I've heard that there's an Oppo 970 hack but I can't speak to that. There are some receivers that will upconvert via component but I don't know if they will upconvert from DVD sources.

Nope, sorry that wasn't me.

So my only options are older models with a hack?

N'Yeti

10-22-06, 06:01 PM

Hang in there...you may get some responses about 2nd and 3rd tier models without a hack...

mrsmith

10-23-06, 01:34 PM

I've gotten a bit lost in the previous 54 pages of posts as well...so I hope that this question is OK here:

Are there are current upconverting dvd players that will upconvert via component? My HDTV doesn't have a digital input so it's my only option but someof the programs we watch on DVD are a bit older and would benefit from the upconversion.

TIA!!!!
At least three: Momitsu V-800 series, like the V880, the NeuNeo(watch it, no 3:2 pulldown on this one!) and the Maya.

As a side benefit, a first-class upconversion of a high-quality standard DVD results in an image very little different from the optical hi-def formats(HD-DVD/Blu-Ray). This, I believe, is one of the key reasons why the hi-def player sales have been so slow(Reuters 9/17/06). The converse of that is fact that sets which have no HDMI/DVI inputs cannot take advantage of the outstanding upconversion circuitry also built into the hi-def players like the Toshiba HD-A1. Why the millions upon millions of set owners around the world whose displays were made much prior to 2004 need to pay a premium for certain separate upconverting players is a mystery. But there it is.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

Gary J

10-23-06, 02:28 PM

I think a lot of those millions find upconverting of component by their TVs pretty darned good.

videobruce

10-25-06, 07:47 AM

mrsmith

10-26-06, 02:15 PM

I have notice that there are at least two manufactures (importers) that has players that don't upconvert over component. One has a hacked firmware fix though.

Why would the 'importer' (manufacture, if you perfer) disable this??
This is all an outgrowth of a big push by the movie studios to somehow eliminate piracy of their films. In July of 1995, I believe it was, the 'gang of eight'(or was it nine?) major DVD manufacturers agreed to preclude upconversion of standard DVDs via a component(analog) connection. The thinking is that such a connection made creation of a 720/1080 dup' too easy. That's the theory, but not the reality. The ordinary, casual home user it seems to me isn'g going to bother doing this. Professional thieves will always find a way to make whatever kind of duplicate they want, no matter what the studios demand.

The greatest irony in all of this has to do with the newest hi-def optical disk formats(HD-DVD/Blu-Ray) and their players currently on the market. While the preclusion as to standard DVDs remains in place(as above), the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players currently on the market play native hi-def disks in hi-def through either component(absent an ICT flag on the disk) or HDMI; so it's comparatively easy to make a native hi-def dup', but not so an upcon'd standard DVD dup' on most currently-produced standard DVD players. And if that's not nutzy-cookoo, I don't know what is.

Fortunately, at least three foreign manufacturers of standard upcon DVD players offer upcon via component.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

redjr

10-26-06, 04:51 PM

This is all an outgrowth of a big push by the movie studios to somehow eliminate piracy of their films. In July of 1995, I believe it was, the 'gang of eight'(or was it nine?) major DVD manufacturers agreed to preclude upconversion of standard DVDs via a component(analog) connection. The thinking is that such a connection made creation of a 720/1080 dup' too easy. That's the theory, but not the reality. The ordinary, casual home user it seems to me isn'g going to bother doing this. Professional thieves will always find a way to make whatever kind of duplicate they want, no matter what the studios demand.

The greatest irony in all of this has to do with the newest hi-def optical disk formats(HD-DVD/Blu-Ray) and their players currently on the market. While the preclusion as to standard DVDs remains in place(as above), the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players currently on the market play native hi-def disks in hi-def through either component(absent an ICT flag on the disk) or HDMI; so it's comparatively easy to make a native hi-def dup', but not so an upcon'd standard DVD dup' on most currently-produced standard DVD players. And if that's not nutzy-cookoo, I don't know what is.

Fortunately, at least three foreign manufacturers of standard upcon DVD players offer upcon via component.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com
Personally, copies of an analog video signal - component upconvert, or otherwise seems so '80-ish'. So much is lost in an analog copy. I don't particularly care for hi-def video over component either, at least not at 1920 x 1080 resolution anyway. The PQ seems so soft-ish compared to using a digital port. Colors not near as vibrant either. But that may just be me. I guess I'm a digital snob. :eek:

redjr... :)

Gary J

10-26-06, 05:31 PM

Actually there is no technical reason for an analog signal to be inferior to a digital one.

mrsmith

10-26-06, 08:37 PM

Actually there is no technical reason for an analog signal to be inferior to a digital one.
Some years ago, when the first upcon players appeared, I saw a technical discussion outlining reasons why there was an inherent difference between the image seen when connected via component as opposed(at that time) to DVI. The writer also posted two screen shots of an upcon'd image of the same frame of a film comparing the two; there was noticeable difference.

A few weeks ago at a local high-end shop I had the personnel connect an HD-A1 first via HDMI, and then via component to watch the same scenes of a high-def disk. There was a tiny difference in resolution I think, but the other characteristics seemed to be the same.

Perhaps an engineer or technician in these boards can enlighten us all as to the current state of the technology in this respect. I think I'd learn something, and perhaps we all would get a greater understanding of the difference.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

videobruce

10-26-06, 11:00 PM

Professional thieves will always find a way to make whatever kind of duplicate they want, no matter what the studios demand. Then why the hell hasn't someone cracked this damn HD copy protection (not DVD)?? :mad: Actually there is no technical reason for an analog signal to be inferior to a digital one. Then Monster Cable wouldn't be able to sell their $100+ HDMI cables.......... ;)

BobKat6

10-26-06, 11:03 PM

Fortunately, at least three foreign manufacturers of standard upcon DVD players offer upcon via component.
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

Now all I need is one of them to produce an HD-DVD that will do the same.

redjr

10-27-06, 12:49 AM

Actually there is no technical reason for an analog signal to be inferior to a digital one.
Isn't there an extra step of converting the internal digital signal to analog component, and then back to digital to be displayed on a digital LCD - hence some loss of quality - unless this conversion is 'loss-less'? I thought with conversion there are 'artifacts' introduced that would otherwise not be there without the conversion. What am I missing? My eyes can easily see a difference in PQ when using the same source over component.

redjr... :)

mrsmith

10-27-06, 03:35 PM

Now all I need is one of them to produce an HD-DVD that will do the same.
Not quite sure what you mean: native hi-def images are produced by the current crop of HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players via EITHER component or HDMI, absent an ICT flag on the hi-def disk(none are so limited as of this writing). So, you don't need any special overseas brand to get native hi-def via component.

Unless you have a very large screen(like a jumbo front-projection), I don't in any case know why you'd then want to spent $25-plus MSRP for any hi-def disks when you can see essentially the same quality image by means of a first-class upconversion of a high-quality standard DVD(a fraction of the MSRP / in fact as little as $5.50 for older titles at Wal*Mart) - and have access to thousands of titles rather than just a few dozen hi-def versions right now. Basically, the hi-def disks give you incrementally better resolution, solor saturation and contrast, but not much more, as reported by L.A. Times Research and Pogue in the NY Times(a really big screen does show a noticeable difference according to these reports).

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

mrsmith

10-27-06, 03:43 PM

Then why the hell hasn't someone cracked this damn HD copy protection (not DVD)?? :mad: Then Monster Cable wouldn't be able to sell their $100+ HDMI cables.......... ;)
Take it to the bank: it's not a question of IF, it's a question of WHEN the hi-def copy protection will be broken. Who knows, it wouldn't surprise me if pirated hi-def disks are already in the underground marketplace in Asia and elsewhere.

Took a while for the copy-protection on standard DVDs to be broken, but it was. And so it will inevitably be with the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray disks as well. What can be encrypted can be decrypted - it's just the time it takes for the code to spread around the world.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

A/Vspec

10-27-06, 04:06 PM

redjr

10-27-06, 07:18 PM

....Unless you have a very large screen(like a jumbo front-projection), I don't in any case know why you'd then want to spent $25-plus MSRP for any hi-def disks when you can see essentially the same quality image by means of a first-class upconversion of a high-quality standard DVD(a fraction of the MSRP / in fact as little as $5.50 for older titles at Wal*Mart) - and have access to thousands of titles rather than just a few dozen hi-def versions right now. Basically, the hi-def disks give you incrementally better resolution, solor saturation and contrast, but not much more, as reported by L.A. Times Research and Pogue in the NY Times(a really big screen does show a noticeable difference according to these reports).

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com
I don't think you need a jumbo screen to really appreciate HD-DVD on a smaller 1080p capable screen. My eyes aren't that critical, but I can certainly tell the difference between [Edit: upscaled] SD and HD.

"hi-def disks give you incrementally better resolution, color saturation and contrast..." Only incrementally better? Isn't this a little like saying that a filet mignon only gives you incrementally better taste, because it's juicer, tenderer, and glides over your tongue with exquisite taste! :D

Just my .02 worth.

redjr... :)

Gary J

10-27-06, 08:00 PM

My eyes aren't that critical, but I can certainly tell the difference between SD and HD.

redjr... :)
Fine except he was talking about upconverted SD.

redjr

10-27-06, 08:21 PM

Fine except he was talking about upconverted SD.
Gary,

His point was, why pay $25 for hi-def disks when there's just an incremental improvement over upscaled SD discs. Reread his post. I happen to believe there is more than an incremental difference. I've seen upscaled SD on my Oppo 971 and XA1. Neither bests a well mastered HD-DVD disc on my XA1. I suspect Milt doesn't own an HD player. ;)

redjr... :)

Gary J

10-27-06, 08:30 PM

Reread why? He said upconverted SD, you said SD. Big difference.

BobKat6

10-27-06, 11:28 PM

Reread why? He said upconverted SD, you said SD. Big difference.

You got it right Gary. I'm upconverting SD DVD now on a LG DVB418 but see the difference, although slight, in HD DVD PQ. But, I don't want to wait forever for some interesting new SD DVD releases to also be released on HD DVD. So I will ocassionaly still purchase a copy protected, new release, on SD DVD.

I also have a library of copy protected SD DVDs that I haven't viewed yet. Though I could remove the copy protection and burn an upconvertable copy, this is just too much effort to be able to also watch the occasional HD DVD I may purchase.

Until my Mitsubishi VS5011 dies, I'll stay with component only. There are also too many horror stories on the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD threads about HDMI problems to kill the digital incentive.

On the plus side, the HD DVD players available also play DVD-RAM so I could scrap the LG and the Panasonic DMR-ES40V I currently need for my other library of movies recorded off of cable and Satelite (some still VHS recorded before July 2003). I think the Blu-Ray players may also have this plus (definitely Panasonic's) but I haven't checked other manufacturer's specifications yet.

So HD DVD or Blu-Ray capable of upconverting SD DVD would be ideal for me. I also check daily for the post of a Macrovision hack for either player. If I missed one , please let me know. Thanks to all.

Bob

rdjam

10-28-06, 01:44 AM

You can go ahead and quote whoever and whatever suits your purpose - but there is NO comparison between HD DVD and upscaled SD (standard Def) DVD.

None...

at all...

While the Toshibas do a much better job than almost every upscaler I have used before, it is still just upscaled. You cannot create new detail where it didn't exist before.

The full 1080 HD DVD movies are light years ahead of even upscaled DVDs.

Sorry if this is rather blunt - but I just couldn't bother beating around the bush tonight...

Cheers...
Not quite sure what you mean: native hi-def images are produced by the current crop of HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players via EITHER component or HDMI, absent an ICT flag on the hi-def disk(none are so limited as of this writing). So, you don't need any special overseas brand to get native hi-def via component.

Unless you have a very large screen(like a jumbo front-projection), I don't in any case know why you'd then want to spent $25-plus MSRP for any hi-def disks when you can see essentially the same quality image by means of a first-class upconversion of a high-quality standard DVD(a fraction of the MSRP / in fact as little as $5.50 for older titles at Wal*Mart) - and have access to thousands of titles rather than just a few dozen hi-def versions right now. Basically, the hi-def disks give you incrementally better resolution, solor saturation and contrast, but not much more, as reported by L.A. Times Research and Pogue in the NY Times(a really big screen does show a noticeable difference according to these reports).

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

BobKat6

10-28-06, 03:15 AM

videobruce

10-28-06, 08:02 AM

He said upconverted SD, you said SD. Big difference. Just how does one make a silk purse out of a sows ear?

Gary J

10-28-06, 08:51 AM

Just how does one make a silk purse out of a sows ear?
The same way an upscaling TV can make an analog TV station look better. Or a DVD from a regular old DVD player. Sure there will be a difference but how much depends on ones particular setup. Often there is not enough difference to persuade one to buy an HD player for Blu-Ray, a HD player for HD-DVD and $25 per HD DVD media.

abzy2004

10-28-06, 12:40 PM

The same way an upscaling TV can make an analog TV station look better. Or a DVD from a regular old DVD player. Sure there will be a difference but how much depends on ones particular setup. Often there is not enough difference to persuade one to buy an HD player for Blu-Ray, a HD player for HD-DVD and $25 per HD DVD media.
One thing for sure. watching TNT HD on cable makes me want to buy HD-DVD/BD. The clarity even for movies that I thought wouldn't make difference like 'Something's gotta give' , 'Erin Brokowich' and don't even get me started on 'Matrix' is just too good. I know it's expensive but I think it cannot be compared. Of course, I am sitting on the sidelines waiting for player price to die down, and then try to use netflix in the beginning. Given that DVD prices were 20$ until recently (2yrs ago), I don't expect these prices to come down that fast. In fact, btw, I do see quality difference between cheap 5.50$ Walmart DVDs and good quality DVDs. Where and how you master the DVDs does matter, other wise, you would see DVD burnt using DVD-writer to be same. I wonder why Walmart says "DVD mastered in Mexico" (no offense)

redjr

10-28-06, 05:25 PM

One thing for sure. watching TNT HD on cable makes me want to buy HD-DVD/BD. The clarity even for movies that I thought wouldn't make difference like 'Something's gotta give' , 'Erin Brokowich' and don't even get me started on 'Matrix' is just too good. I know it's expensive but I think it cannot be compared. Of course, I am sitting on the sidelines waiting for player price to die down, and then try to use netflix in the beginning. Given that DVD prices were 20$ until recently (2yrs ago), I don't expect these prices to come down that fast. In fact, btw, I do see quality difference between cheap 5.50$ Walmart DVDs and good quality DVDs. Where and how you master the DVDs does matter, other wise, you would see DVD burnt using DVD-writer to be same. I wonder why Walmart says "DVD mastered in Mexico" (no offense)
abzy2004,

Indeed, quality HD content over cable (either film or video) is great and far better than SD programming. But until you've seen a hi-def title pumped directly into your HDTV from a Toshiba/RCA HD-DVD player your still missing out on the best HD experience - IMO.

I'm a new owner of the Toshiba XA1 and I generally sit mesmerized at my screen as I've watched the few HD titles I own. And the 5.1 sound is equally fulfilling and rich - and I have a very modest sound system. Even though the XA1 doesn't output 1080p, the overall PQ, saturation of colors, clarity and dynamics of the picture is simply breathtaking.

Some argue that 1080p doesn't much matter on any screen under 60 or so inches unless you have your nose pressed against the screen. I beg to differ. Prior to my 37" Westy, I had a 720p screen and the differences can be striking - at least to my eyes.

I am very happy with my XA1 player paired with my Westy. It's a great machine if you can still find one - and built solid as a tank. The XA2 will have an MSRP of $1k while I paid $509 for my XA2. I'm indeed a happy HD camper! :D

redjr... :)

mrsmith

10-29-06, 05:42 PM

Gary,

His point was, why pay $25 for hi-def disks when there's just an incremental improvement over upscaled SD discs. Reread his post. I happen to believe there is more than an incremental difference. I've seen upscaled SD on my Oppo 971 and XA1. Neither bests a well mastered HD-DVD disc on my XA1. I suspect Milt doesn't own an HD player. ;)

redjr... :)
Yes, there is disagreement between individuals and that may be a function of eyesight and other factors, of course. The majority of professional reviewers however(L.A. Times Research, Pogue in the NY Times are representative) have stated that it takes a really large screen to tell the difference, with others just 'unimpressed' or 'underwhelmed'.

For my part, as a retiree with plenty of time on my hands, I've had a chance to view these hi-def optical disk formats in any number of surroundings, screen sizes, etc., etc., for hours on end and I think the pro's have it about right.

So what's better? If money were no object, a player like a Meridian G5(straight 480, non-upconverting, about $3,500.00)) showing a standard DVD on a 12-foot-wide curved front projection screen just blows away any hi-def player/disks I've seen so far(including the Samsung, the HD-A1 and the Sony-branded Blu-Ray player). The HD-DVD/Blu-Ray machines/disks can't compare with the level of detail, color and contrast from this combination. So go figure.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

mrsmith

10-29-06, 06:04 PM

Well I for one hope you are wrong. At this rate, it will not be long before.... one: they no longer offer the material on any sort of media and B: the only way to purchase it is to stream it via the internet on a one time, time limited basis, or they just give up and we lose all big budget movies and only get Hi-Def porno..... oh never mind... works for me... LOL ;)
I assume you're referring to busting the copy protection on hi-def disks.

If so, your comments are consistent with what the movie studios here in my native LaLa land would like you to believe. With the copy protection on STD-DVDs having been broken years ago, why is it then that they're still produced in mass quantities, if blowing the C/P is so destructive to this business model? Trust me, don't believe any such line.

Here's the economics of it: current repro cost of hi-def disks is around 9-cents apiece, with a total cost of packaging, etc., at less than $2. With MSRPs of $25-plus, and the potential of millions of units to be sold, you do the math: this is about the closest thing to a legal right to print money you will ever find. Now, does this mean that hi-def VOD won't someday cancel it out? That's always a possibility to be sure, but just imagine what even a 99-cent-per-download cost around the world would mean in revenues to the studios without so much as the $2 reproduction cost. As a comparative issue, the only reason music downloading has taken such a toll on that business is that the public has sternly refused to accept the $17 MSRP for CDs as a viable expense. And so too I think this will happen to the $25-plus MSRPs on the hi-def disks which too will plummet in price if the hi-def optical disk formats ever become anything more than a niche product(video guru Joe Kane holds that position, among others).

This is all very preliminary because there are so many other factors at work which will have a say in how this all shakes out, but history tends to repeat itself, and if I were betting, I'd say it's going to do so here again.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

Gary J

10-29-06, 06:46 PM

So what's better? If money were no object, a player like a Meridian G5(straight 480, non-upconverting, about $3,500.00)) showing a standard DVD on a 12-foot-wide curved front projection screen just blows away any hi-def player/disks I've seen so far
Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com
I agree with you for the most part but are you saying no upcovert by the projector either on a 12 foot screen? 480 progressive on a 12 foot screen?

redjr

10-29-06, 07:25 PM

Yes, there is disagreement between individuals and that may be a function of eyesight and other factors, of course. The majority of professional reviewers however(L.A. Times Research, Pogue in the NY Times are representative) have stated that it takes a really large screen to tell the difference, with others just 'unimpressed' or 'underwhelmed'.

For my part, as a retiree with plenty of time on my hands, I've had a chance to view these hi-def optical disk formats in any number of surroundings, screen sizes, etc., etc., for hours on end and I think the pro's have it about right.

So what's better? If money were no object, a player like a Meridian G5(straight 480, non-upconverting, about $3,500.00)) showing a standard DVD on a 12-foot-wide curved front projection screen just blows away any hi-def player/disks I've seen so far(including the Samsung, the HD-A1 and the Sony-branded Blu-Ray player). The HD-DVD/Blu-Ray machines/disks can't compare with the level of detail, color and contrast from this combination. So go figure.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com
While thousands of people are discovering HDTV every day, not many of them will discover it on a 12' screen! That segment of the HT enthuisast is very small, and money is an object most are concerned about. So, applying a little rational thought to the process dictates that HD-DVD (or BD) can be enjoyed on smaller screens without spending the big bucks for a Meridan G5. :D

redjr... :)

BobKat6

10-30-06, 12:00 AM

While thousands of people are discovering HDTV every day, not many of them will discover it on a 12' screen! That segment of the HT enthuisast is very small, and money is an object most are concerned about. So, applying a little rational thought to the process dictates that HD-DVD (or BD) can be enjoyed on smaller screens without spending the big bucks for a Meridan G5. :D

redjr... :)

Ouch.

BobKat6

10-30-06, 12:13 AM

For my part, as a retiree with plenty of time on my hands, I've had a chance to view these hi-def optical disk formats in any number of surroundings, screen sizes, etc., etc., for hours on end and I think the pro's have it about right.

Thanks Milt for your generous insight. Hope you're in a large market or get better mileage than I do.

I'm sure each of us balances our own budgets against what our spouses will allow.

One thing I did to enhance my own viewing pleasure was to get a specific eyeglass prescription for the distance I view my screen from. My driving glasses have a general focal point beyond my screen distance and were simply not good enough. I also have bi-focals so I can sit with my notebook on the arm of my couch and type this.

Best regards,
Bob

redjr

10-30-06, 09:49 AM

Ouch.
Not meant to hurt. Just adding a bit of reality to a topic that has been discussed to death on this and many other threads here at AVS. For those of us who can see and notice the difference of 1080p over upscaled 480i... well, just appreciate it maybe more than the average person.

I'm certainly not trying to convince anyone to go buy HD-DVD discs, or watch upscaled HDTV, or whatever. If they think upscaled SD looks better than HD who am I to stop them. ;)

redjr... :)

Kai Winters

10-30-06, 10:45 AM

I am surprised by the pq of my inexpensive Philips DVP5960 on my 3 year old 42" Mitsubishi tv compared to the 5+ year old Pioneer DV-341 the Philips replaced.
I was able to do a side by side comparison with the two of them using several of my favorite disks. The pq difference between the two is dramatic and the Philips cost me $80 compared to the $160 I paid for the Pioneer 5+ years ago.

Some, maybe a lot, of the difference is the Philips is connected directly to the tv via a hdmi/dvi cable compared to the Pioneer being connected first to the receiver, Yamaha RX-V659, then to the tv via component cable.
I did not notice a difference between 480p and 1080i on the Philips so I leave it at 1080i.

In cases such as mine a small investment will reap large rewards and today's dvd players, in general, have a much better pq than their ancestors.

wheeloplus

10-30-06, 01:55 PM

N'Yeti

10-30-06, 02:44 PM

Why bother if you're going below $80?

wheeloplus

10-30-06, 02:52 PM

So, cheapest you should really go is $150 for the Oppo 970? That's the idea I'm getting. Otherwise I'm just using my XBOX360 for DVDs.

mrsmith

10-30-06, 03:24 PM

I agree with you for the most part but are you saying no upcovert by the projector either on a 12 foot screen? 480 progressive on a 12 foot screen?
I'm assuming, of course, that the $40,000 Runco projector being used at this ultra-high-end shop does it's own scaling. My reference to the player is that it, in itself, is a non-upcon machine.

These guys at this shop aren't exactly dismissive of the hi-def optical disk formats and players(which they also sell), just that like many of the published professional reviews I've referenced, they consider them superfluous to what they consider to be much better machinery that produces a superior image from standard DVDs. I don't know if that's the gross margin talking, or whether it's a genuine opinion, but certainly seeing is believing - and I'm a believer in what I've seen there. This then all begs the question, is this all relevant to us hoi polloi? I think it is only to the extent that so many of the pro's have been either 'unimpressed' or 'underwhelmed' with the hi-def optical disk formats so far. In my case, it's just a matter of tremendous disappoointment. Seems to me that with all the horsepower under hoods of the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players that we certainly should see a MUCH greater improvement in image quality over a first-class upcon. AND it just may be that Thomson Electronics announcement this week that they've developed a system to greatly enhance the sharpness of HD-DVD/Blu-Ray images is a mute testimony that these disks need work. I've been saying for months that what we may need is something like a SuperBit HD-DVD or SuperBit Blu-Ray so that there is a compelling reason for the general public to make the switch to these hi-def optical disk formats. I can easily afford any of the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players, but can find no real reason to do so as of now.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

BobKat6

10-30-06, 07:19 PM

Looking into an upconverting player. Are there any players around a $80-$120 price that are good for the money? I know Oppo has a player a little above that, but what about some players priced underneath that one even? Thanks.

Onkyo DVSP404
Panasonic DVD-S52
Philips DVP5960
Sony DVP-NS75H

Unless you want via component not HDMI

rdjam

10-31-06, 10:43 PM

MikeSp

10-31-06, 11:06 PM

Gary J

11-01-06, 07:23 AM

MikeSp

11-01-06, 08:04 AM

How do you know any player will upscale better than your TV does?

I don't -- my SXRD does an outstanding job of upscaling my 8 year old 480i DVD player but I am interested in updating the 480i DVD player to one that will play MP3's as well as some discs that will only play on a player with progressive scan and a new upconverting DVD player gives me the opportunity to determine IF it can do a better job than the TV.

MikeSp

redjr

11-01-06, 08:53 AM

How do you know any player will upscale better than your TV does?
I didn't read that statement anywhere in MikeSp's post. :eek:

redjr... :)

Gary J

11-01-06, 10:08 AM

I didn't read that statement anywhere in MikeSp's post. :eek:

redjr... :)
What does that have to do with anything? :confused:

mrsmith

11-03-06, 02:09 PM

MikeSp

11-03-06, 02:45 PM

'My local Best Buy had to hire extra security guards outside its doors this week to keep the vast crowds demanding their HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players at bay, with their threats to break down the doors and get them at ANY price. ANY PRICE, you hear?!'

(Oh, pardon me, that was just a dream sequence from the manufacturers and the movie studios. Apparently reality woke them all up):
http://www.computeractive.co.uk/personal-computer-world/news/2167525/definition-dvd-sales-disappoint

Ah well, it's an imperfect world, with the vast unwashed just too unsophisticated, and blind, to appreciate it all - most users of the 30-million HDTV sets in use around the world(Reuters 9/17/06) just don't get it.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

Great satire MrSmith!! IMHO it is the manufacturers and Hollywood with their greed and restrictions for DRM that just don't get it. The vast "unwashed" can go to their local Wally World and purchase a progressive scan SD DVD player for well under $100 and choose from several brands and several models within the brands. When the vast "unwashed" go to the average discount store OR large chain electronics store they find few choices in brands of high def DVD players and even fewer choices of models all of which are substantially higher in cost than SD DVD models. Then there is the format war brought on by the industry itself and some of us really got burned in the old Beta vs VHS war and we remember. Even though the laser pickup of a blu-ray player may cost over $200, IMHO it would be in the best interest of everyone in boosting sales of both formats if there were more models and more brands and they cost less than $1000 (actually less than $400 would really help even if the manufacturers were making zero profit at this time and make up for it in greater numbers of sales later). Even though at this time, it appears that the best PQ and selection of titles as well as the least expensive players all belong in the HD-DVD camp, this "unwashed" consumer will wait and wait until dual format players appear or there is a decided winner before I can enjoy high def DVDs on my 1080P HDTV. The manufacturers and Hollywood had their chance to settle on one high def format and they blew it and now they can reap the rewards of their folley as do we, the "great unwashed!!"

MikeSp

Gary J

11-03-06, 02:45 PM

Reminds me of the format war between DVD-Audio and SACD. The winner was iPod.

mrsmith

11-04-06, 03:53 PM

Great satire MrSmith!! IMHO it is the manufacturers and Hollywood with their greed and restrictions for DRM that just don't get it. The vast "unwashed" can go to their local Wally World and purchase a progressive scan SD DVD player for well under $100 and choose from several brands and several models within the brands. When the vast "unwashed" go to the average discount store OR large chain electronics store they find few choices in brands of high def DVD players and even fewer choices of models all of which are substantially higher in cost than SD DVD models. Then there is the format war brought on by the industry itself and some of us really got burned in the old Beta vs VHS war and we remember. Even though the laser pickup of a blu-ray player may cost over $200, IMHO it would be in the best interest of everyone in boosting sales of both formats if there were more models and more brands and they cost less than $1000 (actually less than $400 would really help even if the manufacturers were making zero profit at this time and make up for it in greater numbers of sales later). Even though at this time, it appears that the best PQ and selection of titles as well as the least expensive players all belong in the HD-DVD camp, this "unwashed" consumer will wait and wait until dual format players appear or there is a decided winner before I can enjoy high def DVDs on my 1080P HDTV. The manufacturers and Hollywood had their chance to settle on one high def format and they blew it and now they can reap the rewards of their folley as do we, the "great unwashed!!"

MikeSp
And, as to the hi-def disks, it gets worse:

Reader's section of the November issue of Widescreen Review, of all places, is beginning to reflect the same views expressed by professional commentators from LA Times Research, Pogue in the NY Times and so many others: the image from so many of the current hi-def disks is little different from an upcon'd standard DVD. I've been saying this for months - and including comparisons of some of the D-VHS releases vs upcon'd.

Your additional comments as to overall acceptance are I think precisely why the "estimates" in the referenced article(notice they're "estimates", and nowhere are they stating the REAL numbers: net retail sales[retail sales less returns]) are so incredibly bad given a world populated by 30-million HDTVs(Reuters 9/17/06).

The very FIRST necessity, it seems to me, is that these hi-def optical disk formats give the general public a compelling reason to buy(aside from your right-on comments), specifically an image vastly better than anything else. This was true when we went from VHS to DVD, and must again be true if HD-DVD/Blu-Ray is going to be anything but the niche product predicted by video guru Joe Kane.

Apparently the manufacturers and the studios aren't fooling many people so far with the offerings now on the shelves. 'Fix it and they will come', I think.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

BobKat6

11-04-06, 04:24 PM

the image from so many of the current hi-def disks is little different from an upcon'd standard DVD.

This is a matter of perception. To me, the improvement is worth the cost of a new format player if and when new HD-DVD/BluRay releases match SD-DVD new releases. It would be nice to see "Pirates of the Caribbean-Dead Man's Chest released in trueHD on December 19th.

mrsmith

11-04-06, 05:43 PM

This is a matter of perception. To me, the improvement is worth the cost of a new format player if and when new HD-DVD/BluRay releases match SD-DVD new releases. It would be nice to see "Pirates of the Caribbean-Dead Man's Chest released in trueHD on December 19th.
That's what makes for horse races, of course. If it works for you that's great. If the published "estimates" in the article are at all accurate however, sales have really been pathetic what with some 30-million HDTVs around the world(Reuters 9/17/06) in use. I think Apple sold that many iPODS in the first 10 days or something along those lines.

The big surprise came with this month's November issue of Widescreen Review however, in which their own readers have come to agree with the professional reviewers referenced across the country. Quite a surprise from a publication which heretofore seems to me to have been an orthodox lockstep that disageed with what you are stating has been your experience. I've always been impressed by the native hi-def formats on a standalone basis, but grossly disappointed when compared with a first-class upcon of a high-quality standard DVD: not much difference. So is it worth $500 to $1299 MSRP for the players and $25-plus MSRP for the disks? IMO it's no-way, Jose. But, especially in particular for those with really big screens, like jumbo front projection displays it may make sense.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

fhjeff

11-05-06, 08:43 AM

Opinions on Harmon Kardon DVD 47

Does anyone have any experience with this player. I have ordered since same brtand as my new receiver and I wanted a nice shiny matching stack for a change. ;-)

It has HDMI upconvert. Interested in real world feedback. Info is sparse on this particular model.

Thanks!

Jeff

Gillest

11-05-06, 02:47 PM

stockwiz

11-05-06, 04:40 PM

well the troy screenshots to me were obvious... the hd-dvd version blew the regular dvd version away. What I don't like is that these content providers scream bloody murder when someone tries to download a movie from a torrent, but have no problem selling us the same content twice, or even three times if someone happened to own the movie on vhs, then dvd, now hd-dvd. IMO there's no reason hd-dvd prices need to be at this level given it doesn't cost them any more to make one of these over a regular DVD.

I'll give them credit though for at least being a bit less expensive then blu-ray discs are from what I can tell. You want to know what would really make these formats potentially take off? Telling people they can upgrade to a hd-dvd version of their movies by providing a proof of purchase, say the UPC code off their old DVD, or an outright exchange.. trade their old DVD in for an hd-dvd plus a $5-10 fee. It's not like it costs a lot to make these things.

opcod

11-06-06, 04:27 PM

Hi

Beside of spending too much on a dvd player, just use the one you have and grab a video scaler. The Centerstage is very impressive. The result quality is far supperior and with any dvd player VS a Oppo drive. And the quality is much more great with this scaler rather only the small difference a Oppo vs any other dvd player represent.

Also it's about 340 on ebay. Very good. And 1080p support also.. DVI-D and vga , component and component progressive in. Have a look before put too much money on a player.. Also, divx lunch many new drivers all the time. maybe a HTPC can be a best bet...

Psychotoddler

11-07-06, 12:26 PM

Gary J

11-07-06, 12:37 PM

The only thing you can do is try it. Many people find that their TV unpconverts just fine and an upconverting DVD player offers little or no improvement and is not worth the expense.

N'Yeti

11-07-06, 01:31 PM

wmcclain

11-07-06, 01:53 PM

Maybe somebody can explain this to me:

I just bought the LG 30fs4d CRT set.

As far as I can tell, it does 480p, 720p, and 1080i really well. I see no pixelling or interpolating when it goes from one mode to the next. Is this because, unlike an LCD, it doesn't have a fixed pixel resolution and can display these modes natively?

If so, will an upconvert DVD player do anything for this TV? Right now the only thing wrong with the DVD playback on my standard Toshiba DVD (non-progressive scan) is that the picture is occasionally grainy, but I don't see any distortion.

My one experience with a recent CRT was demoing a Sony 32" HD CRT, the last of the 4:3 models, I think. I saw very little difference in the image when switching between input resolutions. Beautiful picture. The ultimate film noir display.

-Bill

blackjackmark

11-07-06, 08:11 PM

If you're going to let the TV do the upconverting, is HDMI advantageous? As I type this, it's occurring to me that maybe component out is analog and HDMI is digital...so there WOULD be an advantage, even if the palyer is only outputting 480P.

Is that a fair assumption?

Gary J

11-07-06, 08:33 PM

Again, that is something you have to try. There is no inherent reason a digital signal is better than analog.

Psychotoddler

11-08-06, 09:15 AM

The other thing is the distance from the tv...with a 30" screen you'd have to be pretty close to see any difference at all (as in very close). I'm a bit surprised that your tv displays 720p (most CRTs would only display 480i,480p [or 540i 540p] and 1080i).

Off hand ( from http://us.lge.com/products/model/detail/tv%7Caudio%7Cvideo_direct%20view__30FS4D.jhtml) I'd suspect that if you're receiving a 720p signal (OTA or from a STB) that it's being converted to 1080i - and that you're not viewing 720p at all.

Borrow someone's progressive scan capable DVD player (or one with upconverting as well) and see if you notice differences between 480i, 480p, and 480i upconverted to 1080i)

This is probably the one thing that has been frustrating me about this whole deal--how can I tell what I'm looking at?

When I watch an OTA HD broadcast, I can hit "info" and it tells me what the signal is--480i, 720p, 1080i--and it appears to be reading signals from all of these. But I don't know what it's actually putting on the screen. Is it redrawing the 720p to 1080i? How can I tell? Also, my XBOX is set to output 480p. How can I tell if that's what I'm actually looking at?

The only way I'd be able to "try something out" would be to buy and then return. Before doing that, I'd rather see if a) there's a logical reason why it would make a difference and b) if anyone has firsthand experience with it.

BTW when I talk about LCD vs CRT, I'm drawing on my computer experience. My CRT monitors can draw in many different resolutions just by putting more or less pixels up on the screen (and making them bigger or smaller). My LCD has a fixed pixel resolution and has to interpolate for other resolutions, and you can tell when the math is uneven. I'm assuming the TVs work the same way?

Marching Chiefs

11-09-06, 08:41 PM

I've gotten a bit lost in the previous 54 pages of posts as well...so I hope that this question is OK here:

Are there are current upconverting dvd players that will upconvert via component? My HDTV doesn't have a digital input so it's my only option but someof the programs we watch on DVD are a bit older and would benefit from the upconversion.

TIA!!!!

I hope I am not too late entering this thread to answer your question. In addition to some of the others I've seen listed here, Malata makes a player that upconverts to 1080p through component. 1080p may sound impressive, but I would be wary of its true credibility coming from such a no-name brand. Limited reviews on the model have indicated it is good if you need component upconversion merely b/c your choices are limited, but if you have HDMI or DVI, you can do better for the money. Still and all, I believe this model sells for $110 on eBay. I would offer a link for their various models, but I am not allowed to yet, however, just go to the company website (malata dot-com) and navigate to their DVD players from there (after changing your language from Japanese to English!); they claim "High-definition DVD player", but they are not next-gen HD DVD. Also, a thing to note: these do not support DTS soundtrack playback at all, just Dolby Digital AC-3. This doesn't bother some people, but I personally enjoy DTS a shade more than Dolby when I can get it.

Mikead

11-12-06, 04:36 PM

How about Philips DVP5960/37?

atellis

11-12-06, 06:18 PM

I am wanting to purchase a DVD player with 1080P output for my HDTV which has a 1080P input for its native mode. The new Oppo 981HD will have 1080P output when it comes out in November, but since it uses the Faroudja chip, it may have some macroblocking issues.

Are there any other 1080P models at which I should be looking that would be less likely to have macroblocking issues and which do a decent job of upconverting to 1080P?

MikeSp

New member here. I have the identical question as above. I have the new 52" Sharp Aquos LCD TV (D62U series) on order and am looking for a new DVD player to go along with it. I've heard only excellent things about Oppo's PQ, but not much about the audio quality. Listen to a bunch of opera DVDs thru' a pre-amp/amp and speaker setup. Does the Oppo (970, 971) mess with the sound or will it pass it through unmessed to my Rotel pre-amp?

Like Mike, I'd like to get the 981 since it has 1080p output. Maybe the Sharp LCD upscales fine by itself, but I need a new DVD player anyway, so why not an upscaling one? Not one that is too expensive either, because once the dust settles on the HD-DVD/BluRay thing and prices drop, we'll get one of those.

Can experienced folks chime in here? We're replacing an OLD Sony 24" CRT and an old DVD player (does have component output and coax/optical digital audio output, tho). Have missed out on recent technical advances until we decided to get a new TV, so bear with me! Feel free to start with basics--I won't be insulted...

Thanks,

Ashley

Gary J

11-12-06, 06:26 PM

If you read here (http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6661274-1.html?tag=cnetfd.mt) you may find that 1080p output is overrated.

WestCoastD

11-15-06, 02:52 AM

Hi Everyone,
I'm thinking about replacing my current almost identical looking Sony DVP-NS775V with the new DVP-NS90V Upconverting player. Right now I am running monster component video to my Sony 40XBR1 LCD. I enjoy the picture quality very much, however since I am going to wait on choosing a hi-def dvd format, would I see a big improvement in getting this player? I'll be connecting with a monster hdmi cable. the reason I am considering this player is that I want to keep the SACD capability and I have been happy with Sony dvd players in the past. Any shared thoughts or similar experiences would be greatly appreciated.

I've been using a Sony DVP-NS90V for about six months or so now. It's a very nice player in-general. While it does'nt decode DVD-A format, it does function well as a "universal" player. I have'nt used any other Sony players before, so I have no comparison.

I'm using it with a Yamaha RX-V1600 receiver, and a HP LC2640N 26" LCD HDTV. I'm using Monster component video cable throughout- my SA8300HD cable box has HDMI errors, so it screws up the whole HDMI configuration. However, I plan to switch cable boxes (for a new one) soon, and, hopefully, if everything's up-dated properly, I'll be able to use HDMI throughout as designed. I'm using a digital-optical audio connection to the receiver. Also, using the 5.1 (6-channel) analog multi-channel connections to the receiver.

Otherwise, picture quality is absolutely beautiful with most standard def DVD's, with progressive setting (480p), running through Yamaha, and onto my HP HDTV, I have no complaints. DolbyDigital and DTS 5.1 sound is outstanding through the Yamaha.

I like the menu, it's somewhat intuitive. I can jump around and set, or reset, as I need very quickly and easily.

For the most part I listen to music (probably 85%)- ie. CD's, SACD's, DVD-A's (DolbyDigital and DTS 5.1 tracks). I'm very impressed with SACD sound quality. Regular ("red-book") CD's sound mostly "good", or just "okay" (whatever that means), while DVD-A's sound "good" decoding DolbyDigital and DTS tracks.

Now, I'm wanting a good (flag-ship) "universal" player that [really] plays all the audio formats well, with HDMI up-conversion, etc.,...Maybe an Elite DV-79AVi?

Marching Chiefs

11-18-06, 01:12 AM

New member here. I have the identical question as above. I have the new 52" Sharp Aquos LCD TV (D62U series) on order and am looking for a new DVD player to go along with it. I've heard only excellent things about Oppo's PQ, but not much about the audio quality. Listen to a bunch of opera DVDs thru' a pre-amp/amp and speaker setup. Does the Oppo (970, 971) mess with the sound or will it pass it through unmessed to my Rotel pre-amp?

Like Mike, I'd like to get the 981 since it has 1080p output. Maybe the Sharp LCD upscales fine by itself, but I need a new DVD player anyway, so why not an upscaling one? Not one that is too expensive either, because once the dust settles on the HD-DVD/BluRay thing and prices drop, we'll get one of those.

Can experienced folks chime in here? We're replacing an OLD Sony 24" CRT and an old DVD player (does have component output and coax/optical digital audio output, tho). Have missed out on recent technical advances until we decided to get a new TV, so bear with me! Feel free to start with basics--I won't be insulted...

Thanks,

Ashley

Samsung DVD-HD960 for $200 or less upconverts to 1080p, but loses some features like high-res audio and memory card slots in exchange. But unless your display is huge, difference between a 1080i and 1080p upconverter will probably not be noticeable...even on a huge screen, since upconverted DVDs are not actually Hi-Def, there may not be a discernible difference. The DVD-HD860 is a model down, does not do 1080p, but still 1080i and 720p. It can be found on ebay for $60 including shipping.

aclinml

11-23-06, 12:10 PM

Gary J

11-23-06, 07:00 PM

Search the thread and you shall see a plethora of answers.

BobKat6

11-24-06, 01:16 AM

Is the list of up-converting players at the beginning of this thread current? I have a large screen mitsubishi RPTV with only component inputs for upconversion. Are there any other players out there that upconvert through component outputs?

I'm not sure if the post #1 list is current, but here is a list of DVD Players that will upconvert to 1080i over a component interface available now:

Kingwell HD 1880
LG DVB 418 (Hacked)
LG LDA 511 (Hacked)
LG LDA 531 (Hacked)
Maya
Momitsu V880
NeuNeo HVD108 (aka Helios)
Oppo 970 (Hacked)
Samsung HD841 (Hacked)
Samsung HD941 (Hacked)
Zenith DVB 318 (Hacked)

Prices range from $80 to $200. Some simple hacks are required on the players that were sold retail in the US. Others available direct from China are plug and play.

I am familiar with the Kingwell, LG, and Zenith if you have any further questions.

Also my HDTV is the Mitsubishi VS50111 which may be very similar to your's.

Best regards,
BOB

ThorAsgard

11-24-06, 07:02 PM

Gary J

11-24-06, 07:56 PM

How do you know a DVD player will upconvert better than the TVs?

bigsnyder

11-24-06, 09:18 PM

You can add the Samsung HD941 to list as well. I believe for componet output, the
Zenith model with the DCDi chip is fairly popular around here.

C Snyder

BobKat6

11-24-06, 11:57 PM

Both of my new tv's are on their way and I am debating between the Oppo 970 or the Samsung HD960 or 841. HDMI connection can be used for now, but not sure if this player will need to be using Y,Cr,Cb connections later down the road. Best recommendations? Any help is appreciated.

Mitsubishi 57732 1080p max res. rear projection DLP (2 x hdmi, dvi, and multiple component Y,Cr,Cb connections)
Olevia 532H 1080i max res LCD HDTV W/ ATSC Tuner Inside (hdmi, vga & multiple component Y,Cr,Cb connections)

Looks like the 880 gets the most nods in reading this thread, but I would prefer a more mainstream player that I can pick up locally at a BB or CC store, etc.

880? If you were trying to say the 970 is more often recommended, yes, I believe you are correct. However, since the Samsung 841 is no longer carried by the retailers you mention you may have to stay with HDMI. I believe the Samsung 960 has not been hacked to upscale over component.

BobKat6

11-24-06, 11:59 PM

How do you know a DVD player will upconvert better than the TVs?

The Mitsubishi VS50111 does not upconvert.

BobKat6

11-25-06, 12:05 AM

You can add the Samsung HD941 to list as well. I believe for componet output, the
Zenith model with the DCDi chip is fairly popular around here.

C Snyder

I'll be glad to add it. I assume it must be hacked to do so? If you are talking about the Zenith DVB318, I own one, but the LG DVB418 gives me better PQ compared side by side.

SnakeEyes

11-26-06, 01:15 AM

I'm looking for one of these upconverting over component players that is similar to my DVP640 in that it plays whatever you throw at it, especially DivX/XviD and is cheap as well (sub 100?). Are any of these available in stores or only online stores? Also do you know if any of them have separate optical out or just coaxial?

theroys88

11-26-06, 03:44 AM

SnakeEyes

11-26-06, 02:05 PM

seanrh

11-26-06, 04:56 PM

Looking for an upconverting DVD player for the Sony 60A2000 we just bought, Is the samsung HD960 a solid choice? I'll be running it over HDMI. Price range <$200

bigsnyder

11-26-06, 05:08 PM

seanrh

11-26-06, 06:07 PM

Thanks bigsnyder I'll go with the OPPO then. I see in a post above it does 1080i over component with a hack... What is this hack? And it's plug and play over HDMI correct?

BobKat6

11-27-06, 12:07 AM

Indulge me for one more second, please? :) It appears to me that the differences between the 318 and 418 is that the 318 doesn't support DivX (which would make it a deal breaker), the 418 has those speaker outputs, and the 418 has HDMI while the 318 has DVI. Is that right? I'm a little confused because the 418s on ebay are actually selling for less.

Yes, you are right. For some reason the Zenith DVB318 is more popular even though it is made by LG. And, if you missed my prior post #1688, the LG DVB418 produces a better picture when compared side by side.

The LG units you will find on eBay are refurbished. If you want a new one for $89.95 with free shipping plus tax in CA, use this link:

http://justdeals.stores.yahoo.net/lgdvb418.html

SnakeEyes

11-27-06, 03:26 AM

BobKat6

11-27-06, 02:59 PM

Thanks a lot, I do appreciate it. I've been looking through other threads on here and am about to pull the trigger on a 418. I'm still a little confused on what works and doesn't since there have been different firmwares and hack methods. Can I still region free the player with whatever firmware I need to locate that allows the player to upconvert over component?

The region free conversion works with all firmware versions. You'll find all the information you need in the following thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=426637&page=1&pp=30

If you have any difficulty when your 418 arrives, I can repost the information for you. I check both threads daily.

wmcclain

11-27-06, 03:53 PM

Thanks bigsnyder I'll go with the OPPO then. I see in a post above it does 1080i over component with a hack... What is this hack? And it's plug and play over HDMI correct?

Hack: http://rapidshare.de/files/29049631/613AMOD.iso.html

Plug and play over HDMI: yes.

-Bill

jpoints

11-27-06, 08:33 PM

I'm not sure if the post #1 list is current, but here is a list of DVD Players that will upconvert to 1080i over a component interface available now:

Kingwell HD 1880
LG DVB 418 (Hacked)
LG LDA 511 (Hacked)
LG LDA 531 (Hacked)
Maya
Momitsu V880
NeuNeo HVD108 (aka Helios)
Oppo 970 (Hacked)
Samsung HD841 (Hacked)
Samsung HD941 (Hacked)
Zenith DVB 318 (Hacked)

Prices range from $80 to $200. Some simple hacks are required on the players that were sold retail in the US. Others available direct from China are plug and play.

I am familiar with the Kingwell, LG, and Zenith if you have any further questions.

Also my HDTV is the Mitsubishi VS50111 which may be very similar to your's.

Best regards,
BOB

What about 720p? Do these players give an option to play in 720p? Technically wouldn't 720p be better for fast action movies?

Currently in my plasma the clouds and sky have break up but my old dvd player is playing in 480i. I don't know if I should chalk it up to the plasma tv or the old dvd player.

BobKat6

11-28-06, 01:05 AM

What about 720p? Do these players give an option to play in 720p? Technically wouldn't 720p be better for fast action movies?

Currently in my plasma the clouds and sky have break up but my old dvd player is playing in 480i. I don't know if I should chalk it up to the plasma tv or the old dvd player.

The Kingwell, LG, and Zenith will all output 720p and the Kingwell will also output 768p and 1080p. Technically all three should give you more lines of resolution but my HDTV will only play at 480i, 480p, and 1080i.

Longballsd

11-28-06, 01:42 PM

@seanrh
If you are looking for something from a retail store, I would stick the Sony brands
such as the DVP-NS75H or DVP-NS90V. The Oppo DV-970HD is also a solid choice
if you don't mind buying online.

@BobKat6
The Samsung HD941 does indeed require a remote code hack.

C Snyder
bigsnyder,

Did you look at any of these before you bought the Sony DVPNS90V:

Samsung HD960
Toshiba SD7990

The reason I ask is that these upconvert to 1080P while the Sony upconverts to 1080i. I have a Sony 60" XBR2 and I am wondering if I coukld even notice a difference?

I might just get the Sony because it also plays SACD and has lots of other features and it's only $20 or so more anyway but I just want to make sure the resolution will be similar to the 1080P upconvert models?

Also, do you connect your DVD player directly to the TV using HDMI or do you connect it to a HDMI receiver using HDMI? Thanks

FWIW, the salesman I talked to told me to get the Sony 90V, that it was better than the Samsung.

jpoints

11-28-06, 02:59 PM

I don't know if I should make a separate thread about this but do any of you that own the Samsung HD960 notice ghosting like cnet mentions? This is making me want to steer clear of it. I tried locating one that got good reviews at cnet but it doesn't look like they did many ratings for upconverting dvd players.

bigsnyder

11-28-06, 11:23 PM

@Longballsd

I haven't seen the Toshiba or Samsung personally, but my suggestions are based on
the feedback I have read in this forum and other online reviews. In all honesty, a quality
picture will be determined by how well the player handles the source material vs. what
resolution it is outputting. Remember, DVDs are only 480i to begin with. 1080P will not
magically add anything to the equation. The purpose of upcoverting players IMO is to
bypass any deficiencies that your televisions scaler might have, though many sets do
just fine. Just my two cents.

C Snyder

Longballsd

11-29-06, 05:08 PM

I'm starting to think now that no $150 upconverting DVD player is going to do a better job than my 60" XBR2 which costs considerably more.

I'm just going to hook up my old DVD player and see what it looks like first. After that I can decide if I need a new player or just wait for the HDDVD/BR battle to play out.

Thanks

N'Yeti

11-30-06, 08:18 AM

I just picked up a Panasonic S52 to connect to my Infocus 4805 via HDMI/DVI. My previous experience includes a Denon 1910 (complete piece of junk, died after 13 months, tried to have it repaired with no luck. Anyway last Denon I ever buy) and a laptop as a (HTPC temporary fix after Denon died).

So far this seems to be an excellent player for the money, granted I didn't try it with a higher res display or spent much time with it. I've got a Bravo D1 coming soon and will do a A/B with the Panasonic vs. a Pixel mapped Bravo.

You might wish to go to the S52 page at: http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=665559

mchin247

11-30-06, 01:36 PM

N'Yeti

11-30-06, 01:39 PM

I am looking into an upconvert DVD player for my panny th-42px60u. I like the OPPO players. Does anyone know if the OPPO 971 needs a hack as well?

Thanks.

Go to the FAQ/BrainDump here:
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=491306

Doug_Eldred

11-30-06, 01:49 PM

The Sony NS75H is a great player, at least with my setup, and CC had it for under $100 a couple of weeks back via rebates.

mchin247

11-30-06, 01:51 PM

Thanks N'Yeti..

mchin247

11-30-06, 01:52 PM

Hi Doug,
Thanks for the info. I will take a look.

BobKat6

11-30-06, 07:43 PM

I am looking into an upconvert DVD player for my panny th-42px60u. Does anyone know if the OPPO 971 needs a hack as well? Wish list :rolleyes:

The panny S52S looks like a bang for the buck dvd player. Is there a big difference with the S52K model?

Thanks.

The Oppo 970 only needs the hack if you need to upconvert over component. Both the 970 and 971 will upconvert over HDMI without modification.

The letter at the end of Panasonic's S52 is the color, S for Silver, K for Black. You can expect a superior "handshake" using all Panasonic.

mchin247

11-30-06, 08:14 PM

The Oppo 970 only needs the hack if you need to upconvert over component. Both the 970 and 971 will upconvert over HDMI without modification.

The letter at the end of Panasonic's S52 is the color, S for Silver, K for Black. You can expect a superior "handshake" using all Panasonic.

Hi Bob,
Thanks for the info. When dvd player do you use? I am very tempted to order the OPPO but throw in the budget :(

Panny S52S is a good value. CC has it on sale too.

cam bam

11-30-06, 11:36 PM

Not ready to jump on the hd-dvd or blu-ray bandwagon yet. But in the mean time I need a new dvd player. Choices are the Samsung HD960 which upscales to 1080p or the Panasonic S77 which upscales to 1080i. Both can be had for $250 Canadian and come with an HDMI cable. I'm pretty sure that the Sony can de-interlace a 1080i signal quite well to match it's native 1080p, so would the Panny 1080i or Samsung 1080p be a toss up in PQ. should I just be more concerned with features.

It has been said that this particular Sony tv doesn't upscale a 480i signal as good as it should but can scale a 1080i signal just fine. So with that I think that either the Samsung or Panny should be a toss up. Am I right or wrong.

BobKat6

12-01-06, 01:17 AM

Hi Bob,
Thanks for the info. When dvd player do you use? I am very tempted to order the OPPO but throw in the budget :(

Panny S52S is a good value. CC has it on sale too.

I'm currently using the LG DVB418 to upconvert over component which is all my HDTV has. No HDMI. But I did "rent' a S52S from CC to see if I could work around this player's upconversion only over HDMI and was blown away by the handshake with my Panasonic receiver. Alas my receiver would not redirect the HDMI signal to my TV over the component interface so I returned the 52.

If you are going to blow the budget anyhow, CC has an online special on the RCA HDV5000. While upconverting SD is better than Progressive Scan (480p), HD DVD is even better, at least on my rear projection Mitsubishi. The RCA will do both so you can choose which movies to spend the extra $5 or $10 for the HD-DVD (TrueHD) version and still play your current collection at NearHD.

Otherwise, my advice is to buy the S52S and save the rest for the later technology sometime down the road.

mchin247

12-01-06, 08:08 AM

I'm currently using the LG DVB418 to upconvert over component which is all my HDTV has. No HDMI. But I did "rent' a S52S from CC to see if I could work around this player's upconversion only over HDMI and was blown away by the handshake with my Panasonic receiver. Alas my receiver would not redirect the HDMI signal to my TV over the component interface so I returned the 52.

If you are going to blow the budget anyhow, CC has an online special on the RCA HDV5000. While upconverting SD is better than Progressive Scan (480p), HD DVD is even better, at least on my rear projection Mitsubishi. The RCA will do both so you can choose which movies to spend the extra $5 or $10 for the HD-DVD (TrueHD) version and still play your current collection at NearHD.

Otherwise, my advice is to buy the S52S and save the rest for the later technology sometime down the road.

Yep, good point about saving alittle now and see which technology will be the standard down the road. I will look into the S52S.

Just wondering if you seen or test the Toshiba HD-1A or 2A? How will does it compare with the RCA?

Thanks again for your help. :)

Mike

Doug_Eldred

12-01-06, 09:50 AM

The Oppo 970 only needs the hack if you need to upconvert over component. Both the 970 and 971 will upconvert over HDMI without modification.

The letter at the end of Panasonic's S52 is the color, S for Silver, K for Black. You can expect a superior "handshake" using all Panasonic.
Huh? I thought from the web site that one of the main differences between the 970/971 was that one was HDMI and the other DVI! So how can they both upconvert over HDMI?

Doug

JayMan007

12-01-06, 11:01 AM

Just wondering if you seen or test the Toshiba HD-1A or 2A? How will does it compare with the RCA?

Mike

I believe the RCA 5000 is a rebadged Toshiba HD-A1.

obr

12-01-06, 11:54 AM

Huh? I thought from the web site that one of the main differences between the 970/971 was that one was HDMI and the other DVI! So how can they both upconvert over HDMI?

Doug
You're right. DV970HD upconverts on HDMI while OPDV971H on DVI. New model that was unveiled today at oppodigital will upconvert on HDMI as well. By the way another major difference between two is chipset (Faroudja DCDi in 971H vs. all-in-one MediaTek in DV970HD)

onlybestrated

Doug_Eldred

12-01-06, 12:16 PM

I guess the 981 will up-convert to 1080p, instead of 1080i as the others do.

BobKat6

12-01-06, 03:53 PM

Huh? I thought from the web site that one of the main differences between the 970/971 was that one was HDMI and the other DVI! So how can they both upconvert over HDMI?

Doug

Using a DVI to HDMI cable. Also needed for the Zenith DVB318.

BobKat6

12-01-06, 04:00 PM

I believe the RCA 5000 is a rebadged Toshiba HD-A1.

This is correct. For me, the RCA has the advantage of a silver face and the Circuit City deal is the first under $400 price I saw.

BobKat6

12-01-06, 04:11 PM

Yep, good point about saving alittle now and see which technology will be the standard down the road. I will look into the S52S.

Just wondering if you seen or test the Toshiba HD-1A or 2A? How will does it compare with the RCA?

Thanks again for your help. :)

Mike

Hi Mike,

I have not seen or tested any Toshiba HD-DVD players, just read many threads and saw pictures in ads. I bought the RCA because of the silver face and the CC price was a surprisingly easy "sell" to my wife. Had the Panasonic Blu-Ray been available in silver I'd still be "selling" and would probably be planning to "close" much closer to Christmas.

Best regards,
BOB

mchin247

12-02-06, 06:55 PM

I found out that a refurbished 970 are going for $119. Now that is tempting...

Just wondering if you would you spend the extra money for a new one or go with a refurbished one?

mchin247

12-02-06, 07:00 PM

Hi Mike,

I have not seen or tested any Toshiba HD-DVD players, just read many threads and saw pictures in ads. I bought the RCA because of the silver face and the CC price was a surprisingly easy "sell" to my wife. Had the Panasonic Blu-Ray been available in silver I'd still be "selling" and would probably be planning to "close" much closer to Christmas.

Best regards,
BOB

Hi Bob,
An easy sell to the missus is a good thing :) That is how I was able to buy a plasma ..

Mike

shyguy3763

12-02-06, 10:09 PM

Trek2000

12-03-06, 12:51 AM

Rop

12-03-06, 09:49 AM

I am thinking of buying the Oppo 971 and was wondering which site is my best bet to place an order? Can it be done directly from oppodigital? If I order from Amazon will the player have the latest firmware?

Just ordered one direct from Oppo, it's due next week. Refurbished they are $160 with full warranty and their 30 day money-back guarantee, at that price I couldn't resist. Oppo is the only one that sells the refurbished units. For a regular unit Amazon is a little bit cheaper because you don't pay shipping, but you don't get the 30 money back guaranty there. For me the extra $15 for shipping was worth the peace of mind in case there's trouble getting it to work with my Sony GWII.

-Rob-

dans03

12-03-06, 09:30 PM

I ordered a refurbished Oppo 971 last Tuesday morning directly from Oppo.
By Friday at 4:30 pm I was tweaking the picture on my GWIII with my DVE dvd.

$160 plus $15 Fed Ex shipping.
Very good customer service - and 1 year warranty as well.

Buy one, then put on Hero or The Fifth Element.
Satisfaction.

DanS

bigsnyder

12-03-06, 11:26 PM

Where are the refurbished units on their site?

C Snyder

wmcclain

12-04-06, 07:51 AM

Where are the refurbished units on their site?

C Snyder

You have to call them.

-Bill

Psychotoddler

12-04-06, 02:17 PM

I see Best Buy has the Toshiba SD 4990 on sale for $90. I'm seeing bad things on Cnet and elsewhere about disk freezing with this. Surprised because I have two Toshiba DVD players and I love them, but with the new HDTV I'm noticing more graininess so I want to get an upconvert unit.

Any feedback or suggestions for a player in that range?

BobKat6

12-05-06, 01:26 AM

mchin247

12-05-06, 08:32 AM

Hi Bob,
I brought the panny S52 on Sunday from CC. Luckily, my HDMI cable came in yesterday so I threw in the LOTR: TT just to see. I was highly impressed with the PQ straight out of the box. I have not adjusted the settings yet on the player and my plasma.
Thanks for your advice.

Mike

Psychotoddler

12-05-06, 10:01 AM

Is the S52 an upconvert player? Does it have HDMI? It looks like a standard progressive scan player to me. I'm looking for those other features.

Psychotoddler

12-05-06, 10:20 AM

Any thoughts on the Sony DVP-NS75H?

Thunderbroom

12-05-06, 10:24 AM

I'm looking for a recommendation. I'm getting my new TV (Sony 60" A2000) between this Friday and next Tuesday. As you all likely know it's a full 1080p set. I have an old DVD player that's been on the fritz, so it needs to be replaced anyway. I've read that I don't need an upconverting DVD player with this TV.

I want to wait out the Blu-Ray/HD battle and am looking for a nice DVD player that will match up with my set. I'd like to keep the cost of the player low but retain quality...say <$150 and something I can buy locally (think Best Buy, Circuit City, Walmart, Target).

Thanks!

mchin247

12-05-06, 10:28 AM

Is the S52 an upconvert player? Does it have HDMI? It looks like a standard progressive scan player to me. I'm looking for those other features.

Yes, the S52 is is an upconvert with HDMI connection. I have the player hooked up to my panny via HDMI.

abzy2004

12-05-06, 02:26 PM

There is a new contender from Oppo-981HD. This is HDMI only but upconverts to 1080p as well
http://www.oppodigital.com/dv981hd/dv981hd_info.html

rajsriadit

12-06-06, 09:35 AM

There is another one which upconverts to 1080P through both hdmi and component.

The model is Helios H4000 from neodigits on sale for $149.

Psychotoddler

12-06-06, 09:52 AM

I got the Panasonic DVD-S52S from CC last night for a little over $100. I had some sticker shock when I went to get a HDMI cable, though. $146?? Seems excessive. I bought a non-Monster 4 footer for $79. Still think I overpaid.

Anywhoo.

Brought it home, plugged it in, it works fine. No hardware issues. Picture looks good. I had a little trouble telling if it was better looking on my LG CRT than the old Toshiba SD 2990 which is non-progressive scan connected through component. Fortunately, I had both DVD players connected so I could switch between the two.

I tried out Final Fantasy Spirits Within because I had noticed that it looked particularly grainy in the darker scenes on the Toshiba. I popped it into the Panasonic. It was still grainy. But the grains were finer. Picture quality maybe a little better. I can't say $200 better.

Next I tried changing the output from 480p to 720p and 1080i. I'm still not sure how much of a difference this makes with a CRT set that supposedly can display all 3 natively. There was no artifact, but I found that fine lines and text looked better at 720p so that's what I left it on.

For kicks I through in Star Wars Ep IV and played with the different settings while staring at R2D2's dome in a medium shot. There was a noticable difference in clarity between 480p and 720p. Less so between 720p and 1080i. But more artifact on the 1080i so for now I'm sticking with 720p.

Does this match other people's experience?

Big issue now is how to break it to my wife...