Upconverting DVD Player Options/Impressions [Text View] - Page 8

mrsmith

12-18-06, 02:51 PM

The Pansonic S52S is on sale at Buy (dot) com for 69.99, use Google checkout and it goes to $49.99 and it qualifies for free shipping.

I've been looking for an upconverting unit but know nothing about them. I have a Samsung 40" LCD 1080i TV and my current DVD player thru component looks less than stellar. I'd like the best upconverting DVD player for the money (that is HDMI), but I'd also like for it to be DIVX certified. Anyone have some advice, I'd appreciate it.
For an HDTV with HDMI input, rave reviews have been consistent on the Samsung HD960 upconversion player(about $169 MSRP). Of those I have personally seen, and if you want to spend about $150 more than that, the Toshiba HD-A1/HD-A2/RCA HDV5000 models provide the finest upconversion for the money I have ever encountered - and these play the HD-DVD disks('native' hi-def) as well(no one knows at this point whether HD-DVD or Blu-Ray will be the surviving hi-def format, so be forewarned in that respect). I have also seen the upconversion produced by the Samsung and Sony Blu-Ray players, and I don't believe they're quite as good, so far, as the Toshiba/RCA models referenced.

As to image quality, particularly via HDMI, a first-class upconversion of a high-quality standard DVD is so close to the 'native' HD-DVD/Blu-Ray picture that they are largely indistinguishable. The hi-def optical disk formats produce slightly better resolution, contrast and color saturation, but that's about it. The improvement in resolution is as much evident in backgrounds as in foregrounds. As to whether HD-DVD/Blu-Ray is worth the extra costs of hardware and software, most professional reviewers across the country say no. The difference in native hi-def is more apparent the larger the screen, of course.

In any case, I am sure you will be impressed by the newest upconversion players no matter which you choose. If, for example, you were to select the HD-DVD players referenced and Blu-Ray instead were to prevail as to native hi-def, you'd still end up with one of the best upcon machines going.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

salb55

12-18-06, 04:09 PM

looking for the firmware to remove hcpt from oppo dv-970hd so it can upgrade over component connections

wmcclain

12-18-06, 04:40 PM

looking for the firmware to remove hcpt from oppo dv-970hd so it can upgrade over component connections

http://rapidshare.de/files/29049631/613AMOD.iso.html

-Bill

Morpheo

12-18-06, 05:06 PM

For an HDTV with HDMI input, rave reviews have been consistent on the Samsung HD960 upconversion player(about $169 MSRP).

The HD960 has some serious ghosting issues. The image quality of the panasonic is ok, but nothing terrific (flat colors showed some very subtle, yet very annoying, vertical lines). I would go for the Sony ns75h, imho it's the best of the 3. I just got one and it really shines, colors are vibrant, great detail, I watched Dead Man's Chest yesterday and it looked absolutely beautiful (upscaled to 720p).

BobKat6

12-18-06, 06:16 PM

Dunebuster

12-19-06, 02:36 PM

I bought the Panny HT740 5DVD player/ Home Theater system to work with my 50" Panny plasma. I've got it hooked to the Panny with an HDMI cable and set to upconvert to 720 and the picture appears slightly better than when I first had component cables and no upconvert selected.

Yes, overall the home theater part is ok but not outstanding for under $300 it was a great choice.

joebrandon1977

12-20-06, 01:26 AM

Hey Guys,
Rookie here, so keep the lingo simple.

We have a Pioneer Plasma, 42" Plasma with HD. It only has one HDMI connector, which is being utilized with our DVR/DirecTV input.

We are shopping for HD DVD players (since we can see a huge discrepency in our TV quality versus our current DVD player quality). From my Best Buy visit today, I leared about HD DVDs and Blue-Ray Technology, and understand they are in the infant stages (and $$$).

So it sounds like the best decision is to by a DVD Upconvertor. And how I found you!

Questions:
1. I need help on picking the best model out of the box!
2. My current DVD is hooked up to component (since my TV only has one HDMI). So the new Upconverting DVD player will need to work through component.
3. I'm not a big techie guys that is going to "hack" software, so whatever I can buy out of the box and plug & play is what I need.

I'll leave it at that and wait for you Gurus to help me out!
Thanks in advance.
Joe

Gary J

12-20-06, 07:39 AM

Your Pioneer may do as good a job of upconverting as any DVD player.

moxie1617

12-20-06, 10:50 AM

2. My current DVD is hooked up to component (since my TV only has one HDMI). So the new Upconverting DVD player will need to work through component.
Joe

You should find that the picture quality on your D* HD DVR is as good over component as HDMI. I would suggest you use the component connection with your DVR and use HDMI for your new DVD player. It will give you more options for the DVD player since you won't have to worry about upconverting over component. Another alternative is to buy an HDMI switch, monoprice has a good, inexpensive manual 2 port switch for $30.

markthomas

12-20-06, 11:08 AM

Will all upconverting DVD players automatically detect widescreen 16:9 and 2.35:1 video and zoom to fit the full width of the screen? Do they all recognize and keep 4:3 aspect ratio pillarboxed?

If not, is there a list of ones that will? I don't see this kind of thing listed in specs.

Thanks,
- Mark.

moxie1617

12-20-06, 11:21 AM

Do they all recognize and keep 4:3 aspect ratio pillarboxed?

If not, is there a list of ones that will? I don't see this kind of thing listed in specs.

Thanks,
- Mark.

The Oppo's have this feature, it's called Wide/Squeeze or now wide/auto where it will display 4:3 movies pillarboxed. I don't know of any player that will automatically zoom movies that have an aspect ratio greater than 16:9 to fill the screen.

wmcclain

12-20-06, 11:32 AM

Will all upconverting DVD players automatically detect widescreen 16:9 and 2.35:1 video and zoom to fit the full width of the screen?

If the disk is authored as 16:9 (as opposed to 4:3) then all titles with aspect ratio of 16:9 or greater should always fill the width of the screen. No zooming required. If the disk is authored as 4:3 then wide aspect ratio titles fit within the 4:3 aperture; I don't which models might have automatic zooming and I think the feature is rare if it exists. The Oppos don't have it.

Do they all recognize and keep 4:3 aspect ratio pillarboxed?

Noit all do. As mentioned above, the Oppos have an option for this.

-Bill

markthomas

12-20-06, 12:43 PM

If the disk is authored as 16:9 (as opposed to 4:3) then all titles with aspect ratio of 16:9 or greater should always fill the width of the screen. No zooming required. If the disk is authored as 4:3 then wide aspect ratio titles fit within the 4:3 aperture; I don't which models might have automatic zooming and I think the feature is rare if it exists. The Oppos don't have it.

I wasn't aware of the two types of "authoring". If I understand this correctly, some are authored to be 16:9 (good), while others may be authored as 4:3 but have black bars above and below for widescreen movies. On a non-upscaling player they will both look the same (centered with black bars on four sides) but an upscaling player won't know that it should zoom the 4:3 disk when it really contains widescreen content. Is this understanding correct? Do you have a feel for how many widescreen DVDs are authored correctly as 16:9? Most? Newer DVDs?

So I would guess that a DVD containing a 2.35:1 movie would be "authored" as 16:9 with black bars inserted above and below? Or is there a way to "author" DVDs as 2.35:1?

- Mark.

moxie1617

12-20-06, 12:56 PM

Commercial DVD's are available as Wide screen or Full screen(4:3). When you setup your DVD player you tell the DVD player the type of TV you have - 16:9 or 4:3. It has nothing to do with upscaling but with the type of TV you tell the player you have. When you buy a DVD it tells you the aspect ratio on the case. You can buy new titles as wide screen or full screen. With wide screen many aspect ratios are available, 16:9(1.78:1), 1.85:1, 2.35:1, etc. If the aspect ratio of a wide screen DVD is greater than 16:9 and you have a 16:9 TV, you will have black bars on the top and bottom. If you have a 4:3 TV, you will also have pillar boxes on the sides.

Quatre

12-20-06, 02:09 PM

using the Denon 757 1080p uconvert player on samsung 67" 1080p dlp tv, reg dvds at least the one I tried (Accepted) actually looked better on component then on hdmi upconverted to 720p,1080i, 1080p and even 480p which I guess isn't upconverted but the player lets me select any of those choices when using hdmi. so I guess just not upconverted over hdmi and the 3 choices of upconversion. they all looked about the same just the screen size changed a little. and none looked as good as component which I guess is 480p cus it isn't a player that can upconvert over component. if the upconversion was throwing it off maybe then I still don't understand why 480p (im assuming ) still looked slight better on component then 480p or any other of th 3 higher res on hdmi.

was using a monster brand hdmi cable though it is one supposedly made for/engineered for flat screen lcds and plasmas and I'm using it on a dlp but I don't think that should make a diff but just giving you all the variables and I can always switch the hdmi cable with the reg one I have on other tv which is a plasma. but I really don't think the hdmi cable makes a diff.

the bad picture on hdmi at first was partly due to the fact that some video setting was on which completely dulled/washed out the colors while it looked much more vibrant on component. why that setting was on by default that caused that I don't know but I'm sure many won't find how to adjust it/turn it off and will return the player.
turning that settin.g off made it better but I still don't think it was better on hdmi at any resolution compared to component not upconverted at all. I wonder why component didn't have that one setting turned on or at least the colors weren't washed out. I should check what the sttings are at for component I just didn't think they'd be diff from component to hdmi. either way I had to at least turn off that one setting that dulled/washed out the colors just while using hdmi. I wanted out of the box settings to be default and not need adjustment. not have some setting set by default that dulled the colors when using hdmi and even after turning that off doesn't look better then component and in some ways still worse.

aslo I couldn't use the tv zoom on hdmi to lessen the black bars above and below or get rid of them completely on zoom2 as I could on component.

why is it not looking any better on hdmi at any res compared to component? and possibly worse.

I can't believe someone said upconversion is just as good as bluray or hdvdd as I have xbox 360 hddvd addon and hddvds on that look amazing and ten times better then reg dvd upconversion.

speaking of the 360 and its hddvd when I try reg dvds on both that and the 360's normal drive both of which can upconvert to 1080p I get just a 4:3 screen that can't be changed. I am on vga input for 360 and therefore same for its hddvd drive so that could be part of it and the fact that I have the 360 set to 1920x1080 res.

but if I lower the 360 res(which I don't want to change it back and forth all the time as its fine for what its set for gsmes and all in fact tv is set to game mode for that input which is pain enough to change for hddvds so I'd rather use sep player for reg dvds) but if I lower res will that get me a fuller otr at least letterboxed screen instead of 4:3 square? what's the point of upconverting if it makes it 4:3. or will the 360 and its hddvd drive still upconvert dvds to 1080p even when I have a lower res set?

I'd like to compare the upconvrsion of the 360,its hddvd drive, and the denon 757 but like I said at the res I have the 360 set to I get jslust a 4:3 pic for dvds even though its set to widescreen on the 360 and the tv can't zoom it prob cus I'm on vga.

so if I'm not impressed with the denon 757 then what 1080p upconversion player should I try next? what is best? oppo 980? wouldn't mind having the ability to do 1080p over component when I want to free up that 2nd hdmi slot (first one used by hd dvr stb). but 1080p upconvert over component leaves only the kingwell player that I know of so I prob better stick with hdmi for for upconvert on the 1080p set to give me more choice and best possible hdmi 1080p upconvert player.

I just want the best pic possible for reg dvds on 67" 1080p tv and ability to go full screen or at least lessen the letterbox bars which is what I usually like to do for movies (keep some letterbox bars but just lessen their size and enlarge the pic)

for this I would think a 1080p upconvert player over hdmi is going to give me my best result I would think, but again I'm just not impressed with the pic using the denon.

I know its tough on 67" screen being so big, but I would think the 1080p upconvert over hdmi would help not be no better then no upconvert over component and possibly worse or at least less picture size adjust options. the higher res 1080p even an upconvert should look better on a larger tv then a non upconverted 480p.

so if 1080p upconvert player over hdmi is how I can get best possible pic for reg dvds on 67" 1080p tv then I guess the denon 757 is just not cutting it and I need to try a diff player.

what is the best 1080p upconvert player?

wmcclain

12-20-06, 02:16 PM

I wasn't aware of the two types of "authoring". If I understand this correctly, some are authored to be 16:9 (good), while others may be authored as 4:3 but have black bars above and below for widescreen movies. On a non-upscaling player they will both look the same (centered with black bars on four sides) but an upscaling player won't know that it should zoom the 4:3 disk when it really contains widescreen content. Is this understanding correct? Do you have a feel for how many widescreen DVDs are authored correctly as 16:9? Most? Newer DVDs?

So I would guess that a DVD containing a 2.35:1 movie would be "authored" as 16:9 with black bars inserted above and below? Or is there a way to "author" DVDs as 2.35:1?

- Mark.

Generally right, although upscaling is not the issue. 4:3 authoring is "perfect" if the original material was 4:3 (1.33): most movies over 50 years old and all TV until recent years. (I guess you'd say its really perfect if you are viewing on a old 4:3 display).

16:9 authoring is "perfect" for 1.77 aspect ratio titles. Anything narrower has black bars on the sides; anything wider has black bars above and below. Watch BEN HUR sometime: 2.76:1.

Now, the ugly part comes in because some wide aspect titles have been authored as 4:3 disks. See this 2-page article which has some nice graphic examples: http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/anamorphic/index.html.

Older DVDs are more likely to be non-anamorphic, although George Lucas just released the original editions of the first STAR WARS trilogy as 4:3 widescreen.

-Bill

markthomas

12-20-06, 02:36 PM

See this 2-page article which has some nice graphic examples: http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/anamorphic/index.html.

Thanks for that link! I remember seeing it YEARS ago, but I guess since I didn't have a widescreen TV at the time, it didn't really sink in!

joebrandon1977

12-21-06, 03:40 AM

abzy2004

12-21-06, 01:36 PM

Still researching an upconverting dvd player....

I was at Best Buy today and saw some models that have a memory stick slot (from digital cameras) that were also dvd recorders.

This would be a nice option to slide a memory card and burn a dvd with the pics versus going through our computer program. But I have not see anyone commnet on this functionality a lot.

Has anyone used this feature? Good? Bad?

I don't want to buy a bad dvd upconverting model just for this feature. However if we can find a proven model that has this feature it may help our decision.

Thanks in advance.
Dallas Rookie
Joe
The question for you is are your memory card almost 4.7GB? A DVD has that much capacity. Unless, you plan on wasting more than half of DVD everytime (they are cheap afterall), that's a feature you could leave w/o. It's faster on a computer and most of the new laptops come by default with it.

joebrandon1977

12-21-06, 02:36 PM

Yes, we have a 4GB memory card, so we swing that.

jbeechuk

12-21-06, 06:53 PM

BobKat6

12-21-06, 11:24 PM

Looking for a DVD upconverting player for a rear-projection Toshiba HD set with component and DVI inputs, but no HDMI. Can I get a HDMI to DVI converter cable to use? Don't know much about the "hacking" you guys all talk about, but would like to make it work somehow. Thanks.

Except for four players sold directly from China, some type of firmware modification is necessary to enable a player to upconvert over a component interface. The hacks usually are either codes entered on a remote or files downloaded, burned to a disk, and installed/played to the player or both. If I can do it, you certainly can too.

These "hacks" are not needed if you use a HDMI interface with a DVI adapter or cable, but there could be a problem with HDMI's HDCP "handshake".

You may want to look for a player with a DVI interface. Two I am aware of are the Zenith DVB318 available on eBay or the Oppo 971 available direct from the Oppo.
There are many satisfied owners of both of these players. Individual threads exist for both and if you search for DVB318 or Oppo you will find plenty of reading.

Good luck.
BOB

l337hxr

12-23-06, 03:36 AM

Add xbox1 to the list to upconverting dvd players

Hey guys I just want to let you many of you guys know that the original Xbox (1) (not xbox 360) can also do software upconversion. And it looks pretty damn good too!

You will need the following to get your xbox 1 to do dvd upconversion:

-old Xbox (1)
-Xbox Media Center (free application and is not a pirated illegal software) (free)
-5RCA Component/HD AV cables for Xbox (I'm using Psyclones PYX20) ($10-25)
-Basic modchip ($20-40 these days)

Total costs: ~$50

None of the following items above are doing any thing illegal or adding illegal pirating. You are simply modifying your xbox by putting in a hardware and free software. Seeing how many of you guys might have children or friends with old xbox's that they don't want, this is a good time to try it out.
I'm not recommending you purchase a old xbox just to do this, but I'm saying if you already have one laying around the house or if it is collecting dust, this would be a good thing to try.

The software application, Xbox Media Center can upconvert to 720p and 1080i only! It can not do 1080p.

I currently own a Samsung LN-S4695D 46" 1080P full HD LCD and have tested it. It looks darn good at 1080i. I verified it was 1920x1080i by pressing the 'info' button on my tv and it showed full 1920x1080@60Hz.

Gary J

12-23-06, 07:45 AM

Where do you get the mod chip and how difficult is it to install?

dan21_53105

12-23-06, 11:28 AM

freshwater

12-28-06, 02:22 AM

Does some one has compare the samsung HD860 with OPPO 981HD.
I have a 9UK panny with 1080i. and using HD860.

samsung is ~$39
OPPO is ~$229

Quatre

12-28-06, 10:58 AM

how about comparison of denon 757 $350 to oppo 981 $229?

I guess the oppo would win that on price alone and they are prob equal if not the oppo slight better?

but what if you got the denon for like 160 around I think. then its prob def worth keeping denon and no use paying more to get the oppo?

Yelraek

12-28-06, 05:41 PM

MikeSp

12-28-06, 06:20 PM

I am looking at HDMI cables on monoPrice. I am a bit confused
about the terminology used. What's the difference between #2412 "male to
male" and #2219 "HDMI to HDMI" used to describe the different cables?
Also, I understand about the ferrite cores but what is a net jacket?

Perhaps the "net jacket" is a Techflex covering over the cable itself. The HDMI cable that I received with my Oppo DVD player had a Techflex covering (makes it look nicer--many high end cables have techflex coverings in various colors).

MikeSp

moxie1617

12-28-06, 07:22 PM

I am looking at HDMI cables on monoPrice. I am a bit confused
about the terminology used. What's the difference between #2412 "male to
male" and #2219 "HDMI to HDMI" used to describe the different cables?
....................

HDMI cables have male ends so I suspect they had different copywriters putting the descriptions together.

troch1

12-29-06, 06:32 PM

What is the purpose of buying an upconverting DVD player if my monitor (Panasonic plasma in this case) is going to display any signal it gets in its native resolution? Isn't the panel, in effect, upconverting the signal for me?

Sorry for the newbie question, I just couldn't find the answer in such an extensive post!

Thanks,

Mark

Gary J

12-29-06, 07:32 PM

You are correct. Many people prefer the upconversion of their monitor to that of a dvd player.

santiago25

12-30-06, 01:18 AM

i have a samsung plasma hps5073 it reads 720p or 1080i, can anyone tell me which oppo upconverter dvd player i should get, or which other brand thanks in advance

wmcclain

12-30-06, 09:57 AM

i have a samsung plasma hps5073 it reads 720p or 1080i, can anyone tell me which oppo upconverter dvd player i should get, or which other brand thanks in advance

The Oppo 970 is usually recommended for plasma and DLP owners. The 971 and 981 have a Faroudja chip which many people like, but which can enhance macroblocking on plasma and DLP.

That said, there are plasma and DLP owners who are using the 971 and 981. The happy ones have done careful calibration of their displays to minimize MB.

-Bill

jaxxx123

12-30-06, 08:05 PM

mrsmith

12-30-06, 09:01 PM

im looking at a new DVD once i get my samsung LCD flat panel... sorry if I dont have time to read through all 60 pages but what do you guys recomend for my set and would it make a noticable difference? or shoudl I just let the TV do the upconveting?
Just about any good upconverting player will do the job very nicely. The latest Samsung HD960 at about $169 MSRP has had good reviews, as has the newest OPPO.

If you also want native hi-def, in addition to a built-in first-class upcon capability, I'd go with the Toshiba HD-A2 - but it's anyone's guess whether this HD-DVD player or a competing Blu-Ray will be the surviving format(if indeed either survives the upcoming 1-terabyte format about 2 years out).

Whichever you get, you'll like what you see. I would not rely on the display alone.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

REL77

01-01-07, 09:41 PM

can someone give their opinion about the Xbox 360 upconversion to 1080p? I just got a Sammy hls6187, and needed a new DVD player, but as both my HDMI inputs are taken (HD DVR, and PS3), i am trying to avoid buying one. I have the 360 hooked up via VGA and it looks good, but am not sure how its fairing. I am playing the dvds through the HD DVD drive (as I would rather wear that out and rebuy it then the actual 360). Is it better to play through the ad on or the actual unit. For Xmas, my mom got me the Sony S71HP (the one available at Costco). I havent opened it yet, as I know it was $130, so I could spend it on something else fun if the 360 is a worthy counterpart.

Let me know what you guys think

minetoo

01-06-07, 10:49 PM

BobKat6

01-06-07, 11:37 PM

I have a LG dn191h and it will also take sd card but was slow and the pic. didn't look good. it is said in the manual it will upconvert using component to 720p, 1080i but only with un-copy protected disks It has HDMI I don't have 65" mits. 1999 with component HD inputs, is there any fix for me except to hope to find some movie without Mac. or css portect on them. I know LOTS OF LUCK. but I need help Thanks,

You need to copy the DVDs on a PC removing the css. Software to do this is widely available.

There is also a chance that the hacks for older LGs may work on your player. You'll find them here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9299830&&#post9299830

Good luck.
BOB

minetoo

01-07-07, 01:26 AM

BobKat6

01-07-07, 05:47 PM

Thank You Bob, But I did print that up . But what one is the one to take off the css? is it the HDCP, Macrovision, EDID, I have A Mac. not a PC. I have Mac-the-ripper and Toast is that all I need M.T.R. tells me region But I'm new to this, replaced DVD player in my eMac. for burner and got Toast and some DVD-r disks ready to try

Regarding the hacks, all three need to be set to off. Try the settings screen first (pause 2,4,8,6,5 & pause,pause to exit) and if this works, the rest should. Try it three or four times.

As far as the software, I've never made a copy. I'm still using the DVB418 and am very happy with it. I would think your best source for guidance is some kind of Mac forum.

BOB

minetoo

01-07-07, 07:30 PM

Thanks again, I did try the Hacks,the only one that worked was the factory reset, but I did not try them more then two or three times, And I dident give them that much time eather. I will try them again and this time I will give them 5min. each and try them 3 times each that sounds like a lab thing but I'll try, Lke I said, the factory reset worked and this is the info word for word.(System info, MODEL LV100402631 Chip ID. Vaddis.888 Servo Ver 20.46 Micom Ver V1.87 CheckSum :B680 Prom Option 55 53 00 47 02 55 f4 ff Factory Reset Done) well thanks again, I'll keep trying, If I ever do get this working then I'll need a component vidio switcher because I'm useing HD Cable too,. so one step at a time. Thanks

minetoo

01-07-07, 07:33 PM

Thanks again, I did try the Hacks,the only one that worked was the factory reset, but I did not try them more then two or three times, And I dident give them that much time eather. I will try them again and this time I will give them 5min. each and try them 3 times each that sounds like a lab thing but I'll try, Like I said, the factory reset worked and this is the info word for word.(System info, MODEL LV100402631 Chip ID. Vaddis.888 Servo Ver 20.46 Micom Ver V1.87 CheckSum :B680 Prom Option 55 53 00 47 02 55 f4 ff Factory Reset Done) well thanks again, I'll keep trying, If I ever do get this working then I'll need a component vidio switcher because I'm using HD Cable too,. so one step at a time. Thanks

BobKat6

01-07-07, 08:15 PM

Thanks again, I did try the Hacks,the only one that worked was the factory reset, but I did not try them more then two or three times, And I dident give them that much time eather. I will try them again and this time I will give them 5min. each and try them 3 times each that sounds like a lab thing but I'll try, Like I said, the factory reset worked and this is the info word for word.(System info, MODEL LV100402631 Chip ID. Vaddis.888 Servo Ver 20.46 Micom Ver V1.87 CheckSum :B680 Prom Option 55 53 00 47 02 55 f4 ff Factory Reset Done) well thanks again, I'll keep trying, If I ever do get this working then I'll need a component vidio switcher because I'm using HD Cable too,. so one step at a time. Thanks

Looks like you have a newer firmware, v1.87 (MICOM VER.), so the hacks may not work. They don't need 5 minutes. And a mechanical switcher caused distortion for me. If I come across any other solution, I'll let you know.

Best regards,
BOB

spoco2

01-09-07, 12:29 AM

Saw this topic while browsing here and though people might like to see a review of the Sony DVPNS76H Upscaling DVD player with many a screenshot comparison to a Pioneer DV466 that I've done.

However now I notice I can't post a link to it until I've made 5 posts.

Would anyone be interested in such a review?

Itsdon

01-09-07, 01:25 AM

spoco2

01-09-07, 05:42 PM

Only 3 more posts to go! ;) Yes, as an owner of a NS75H I'd be very interested in what the NS76H can do.

So, the NS75H is actually a different player to the NS76? I wasn't sure, thought it might just be a different number for a different region (being in Australia here)

spoco2

01-09-07, 06:45 PM

I see that the NS76 is the same as the NS75 bar the DivX playback of the 76, thanks to the NS75 thread for that info :)

spoco2

01-09-07, 06:58 PM

minetoo

01-11-07, 07:36 PM

Hi, this is Minetoo again, sorry about jumping back over your posts but have another Q. I now know that the LG DN191H will upscale to 1080i but I don't know why? This said A friend lent me a disk that he copyed for himself of one of HIS movies. so as to see what happens and it did upscale HD.16/9 1080i BUT,BUT,BUT. I am ripping my dvds and the player swings back into 480p. I have a Mac. and are using Mactheripper,and Toast7 I can make a copy of (tremors 4) put it in my LG. and it will go back to 480p MTR. is to take off Maco, and css but what is up dos anyone out there use Mac. and can help. THANK YOU. DAVID

JoelcE

01-11-07, 08:17 PM

Hello to all. I was wondering if someone could recommend a good upscaling player in the range of $100 to $150 that supports individual RGB color control. I have a Sharp LC37D40U flat panel that has an annoying red push issue and am looking for any solution to this. I know this may not be the best way to solve red push but I'm willing to try anything at this point - plus I get a good player in the process.

Thanks

Dan

Dan,
I just bought a LC-37D40U at Costco and also purchased the Oppo 970 online direct from Oppo, hooked up via HDMI to the display. Looks AMAZING at 720p. Couldn't be happier with the setup. I tweaked my color in the "Movie" AV Mode fairly easy using the Avia Home Theater DVD and I have absolutely no red push now. On the Avia DVD, I'm slightly off in the green spectrum by -20% but I can't see it onscreen. Keep in mind, I'm trained in color correction...I do it professionally for my job and I've calibrated a lot of various monitors over the years using a lot of different pro software/hardware. The 970 and 37D40U are an excellent fit.

The 970 also has some on-board color/contrast/sharpness controls but I haven't touched those. My picture looks great. I did have to fidget a bit with the backlight/contrast to get the best compromise in black level/white point but I'm really happy with the picture now. For an LCD it looks great.

Basically, this Oppo makes this 720p LCD compete remarkably well with 40" 1080p models running HD DVD via HDMI that I've seen in showrooms.

Good luck.

kane100574

01-15-07, 06:51 PM

I am getting an 65F59 Hitachi TV. Any one recommend a 150 to 200 upconvert DVD player for it? There are so many posts i was getting dizzy reading them all lol...

bigsnyder

01-15-07, 08:00 PM

I believe you will find that the Oppo is the most recommended brand.

Check them out here. (http://www.oppodigital.com)

C Snyder

hacker-pschorr

01-15-07, 08:26 PM

(Mitsubishi - HC3000U) on a 100" screen.

The DVD player is 25 feet away from the projector, is this too far to run an HDMI cable? Thre is not a receiver between the DVD player and the projector.

Right now I'm using component cables for the "regulator" dvd player. I'm looking to pick up one of these, most are only HDMI or DVI - reason for the question.

Thanks!

kane100574

01-15-07, 08:56 PM

I believe you will find that the Oppo is the most recommended brand.

C Snyder

Thanks!:)

mizzoutigers

01-16-07, 05:22 PM

I am new to this forum. I am getting ready to buy a Mits HD1000U and want to get a good upconverting DVD to hold me over until HD-DVD/Blu-Ray is settled and prices drop. Is the Oppo a good DVD player to use with this projector? Are there any other brands (Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, LG, etc.) that compare. If you suggest Oppo, which one should I get, the 970 or 971? and why? Thanks for your help.

Gary J

01-16-07, 06:41 PM

How do you know your HDTV will not do as good a job of upconverting?

bigsnyder

01-16-07, 06:43 PM

The 970 vs the 971 mainly depends on your needs. The 970 has support for SACD/DVD-Audio
and will pass 480i over the HDMI connector. The 971 has an edge PQ with the DCDi chip, but
does outputs 480i over the component only. Check out the following reviews:

970HD (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=130#Oppo%20DigitalDV-970HD%20(HDMI))
971H (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=124#Oppo%20DigitalOPDV971H%20(DVI))

There is a newer 981HD that is universal player, does 1080p, but no component output.
This comparison chart (http://www.oppodigital.com/dv981hd/dv981hd_comp.html) should help.

C Snyder

nhbob

01-17-07, 09:30 AM

I have an LG HD set. All HD sets have to upconvert signals to mamtch the screen(728 on the LG). Do I really need the upconverting DVD player? How much differnce will I see?

DKDiveDude

01-17-07, 12:41 PM

ALERT - This is a copy of an email I just fired off to Neodigits:

"When the HECK are you people going to release a firmware update for the H4000 player?

The piece of junk is FULL of bugs which I had since I got it 3 months ago!!! Errors includes as already reported when I got it, syncronization errors after a screen saver pause, Won't go to DVD menu after resuming (powering on) a previously started DVD movie, won't eject DVD when clicing eject and player is off - one has to wait for DVD to load and then click eject again!!!

It is now quite obvious to me that Neodigits has the WORST customers service of all the electronics companies I dealts with and I will now give you people two choices.

1) Release a firmware update ASAP!
2) Issue RMA # for a return

Should I not receive a reply of your intentions within one(1) week, I will contact my bank and have the credit card charges reversed and send the player back."

As you people can understand from the above email, I have lost my patience with this incompetent company. The website states that firmware updates will be released every 2-3 weeks, but none has been issued for the H4000 player released for sale more than 3 months ago, and even thought the many issues, the above and more was reported to Neodigits within days after I received the player as one of the first customers.

Do yourself a favor and steer away from this company, and their support is clearly and proven non-existant. From what I read on this website and from reviews Oppo is the way to go.

hardworker

01-18-07, 11:03 AM

I bought the Oppo dvd player less than 1 year ago and it was working fine. I bought it based upon many recommendations here.
A couple of months ago, it started having green sparkles. I contacted Oppo. They basically told me I was out of luck.
I have the Vizio 42" plasma and they at first claimed that about 50% of them had this problem from the get go. Later they said that it was at a lower rate. Anyway they blame it on the Vizio. My problem developed over time so I couldn't detect this within their 30 day period.
I offered to pay the difference to get a unit they claimed didn't have the problem. They out right refused.
So beware of Oppo.
If anyone knows who I can contact at Oppo to get this corrected I'd appreciate it.
It's STILL under warranty, but they won't do anything to fix it. !!!
Jonathan

Dan,
I just bought a LC-37D40U at Costco and also purchased the Oppo 970 online direct from Oppo, hooked up via HDMI to the display. Looks AMAZING at 720p. Couldn't be happier with the setup. I tweaked my color in the "Movie" AV Mode fairly easy using the Avia Home Theater DVD and I have absolutely no red push now. On the Avia DVD, I'm slightly off in the green spectrum by -20% but I can't see it onscreen. Keep in mind, I'm trained in color correction...I do it professionally for my job and I've calibrated a lot of various monitors over the years using a lot of different pro software/hardware. The 970 and 37D40U are an excellent fit.

The 970 also has some on-board color/contrast/sharpness controls but I haven't touched those. My picture looks great. I did have to fidget a bit with the backlight/contrast to get the best compromise in black level/white point but I'm really happy with the picture now. For an LCD it looks great.

Basically, this Oppo makes this 720p LCD compete remarkably well with 40" 1080p models running HD DVD via HDMI that I've seen in showrooms.

Good luck.

Jim McC

01-18-07, 05:11 PM

But everyone says Oppo is the best company ever, and has the best players ever. Go figure.

Mark_Venture

01-19-07, 08:34 AM

I have an LG HD set. All HD sets have to upconvert signals to mamtch the screen(728 on the LG). Do I really need the upconverting DVD player? How much differnce will I see?
It all biols down to... how good is the scaler in your TV vs how good is the scaler in the DVD player...

The only way to find out... buy an up converting DVD player, try it, and see what YOUR eyes think....

example: I've read comments that for my TV, Sony KDF-42WE655 42" LCD RP, that a normal progressive scan looks great... I've read that the Sony DVP-NS75 looks "stunning" at 1080i, but for me, and my eyes... 480i looks GREAT...

So its really up to you... :)

newtvowner

01-19-07, 10:24 PM

FYI-anyone looking to buy the new Pioneer Elite DV46-AV upconverting DVD player STAY AWAY!!!!
This player has a horrible pic even with HDMI. It was rushed to production and has a ton of bugs. I returned mine once, thenI took the new one in for a firmware upgrade that they were not even sure would fix the problem, and the upgrade ruined the microprocessor. I now have to wait six months for a new microprocessor which is on back order due to the volume of these players that are having problems.
The guy at the store said they had to switch out to display models within a month and the guy at the authorized repair center said he recieved an email as a heads up, advising him that they had recomended him to 600 other customers that were having the same problem. For more info do a search in this forum for the DV46 and you can read about the many problems people are having.
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

Sawasdeecf

01-21-07, 01:17 AM

I am need of upgrading my old Pan progressive DVD player and was wondering if the Oppo DV981HD would be provide any additional benifit then say a Sony player, when matched with my Sony KDSR-50XBR1?

Huey

01-21-07, 05:58 PM

Hardworker, have you tried your Oppo with another HDMI display to make sure it's the DVD player and not your Vizio plasma? Vizio is V, inc. which made Bravo D1. V, inc. does not exude quality in my book. With that said, I own a Bravo D1 that's heavily modded to keep going as it has very good PQ via DVI->HDMI to my HD1000u DLP projector.

If you don't have another HDMI display, take your Oppo to Circuit City or Best Buy and ask them to let you see how their display work with your DVD player (they will let you as they hope you will buy their display device).

Also, try another HDMI cable just in case (you can always take the cable back after your test is done) to see if it's your cable that's at fault

It could be your Oppo but it may well not be. To me, you've not PROVEN that your Oppo is faulty so Oppo tech. support may not agree to fix it under warranty.

Quatre

01-23-07, 12:20 AM

What dvd player would everyone suggest that can upconvert over component for Panny 60" 720p RP LCD tv? It doesn't have hdmi but does have dvi though i will prob use that for the cable stb using an hdmi to dvi cable as it works and some dvd playes will have problems with the hdmi to dvi hdcp handshake so i figure it best to stick to component for the dvd player.

I have an a Panasonic non upconvert prog scan dvd player which is the same 3 yrs old as the tv that i was previously using. But now that that tv is being moved to newly finished basement with now my best sound setup in the house being 6 speaker and sub dolby 6.1 and receiver all Yamaha, i figure it might be worth getting an upconvert player for that tv to at least make use of the 720p/1080i.

I do have an xbox 360 hddvd addon player and Denon 757 1080p upconvert dvd player but i use those on the 67" 1080p tv.

I also have a crappy Daewoo dvd/vhs player and an old Pioneer dv 333 player that could play any format and was listed on the old vcdhelp.com as one of the players that could play the most formats but thats really old as it was already kinda old even back then when i got it and i dont even think it has component. the daewoo only has component nad now optical audio. i should sell those 2 and the panasonic prog scan, but then i'd also need to get a new dvd/vhs combo player for the bedroom where it is also a 720p tv and I have seen both a panasonic i think and LG dvd/vhs 720p/1080i upconvert players at CC. are either of those good? they were both kind of expensive especially the panny as it had a built in hd for copying the vhs too before burning to dvd.

So to start what would be a good player for the 60" panny 720p rp lcd that can upconvert to 720p/1080i and has good sound compatible with the dolby 6.1

And what would be a good 720p upconvert dvd/vhs combo player?

minetoo

01-23-07, 06:42 PM

This is minetoo, if you look on page 60 and 61 at my posts you will see that the lg dn191h dos upscale over the component vid. it says it in the manual.(for 720p
and 1080i resolution on the component video out, only non-copy protected discs can be played back. if the disc is copy protected, it will be displayed at 480p resolution without HDMI cable connection.) This being said I have done this. with a disc. burned on a PC. but not on a Mac. They are my movies , and A friend let me try one of his that He used His PC. on Don't know why. But no one has been able to tell me. on this forum or others that I tryed. Lots of luck. but it is worth a try. set the dvd to 1080i and play. must be stopped to change the settings. Dave.

Spoonlord

01-24-07, 08:06 AM

GSB

01-26-07, 04:47 AM

I paired an OPPO DV-981HD with a 46" Sony Bravia 1080p LCD TV. The result is absolutely incredible - as good as it gets for SD DVD. OPPO's customer service and firmware support is legendary too... the 981HD has been out for 2 months and they have already released 3 firmware updates (workarounds for a few TV's that incorrectly select SD colorspace for an HD signal, or have HDMI handshaking problems).

I also own the 971H and the 970HD, and both of them are excellent players, but the 981 takes the cake! Highly recommended.

Gary

inwo42

01-28-07, 11:20 AM

(Somewhere in this thread, I'm sure it's stated. If so, you can just point me to it.)

Are there any fairly inexpensive players (under $250) that will allow you to vertically stretch a 16:9 image to eliminate the letterboxing? I'm hooking up to a Samsung 4051D, which doesn't allow the "zoom" features on HDMI. On some movies, I find the letterboxing distracting, and rather have the movie fill the screen vertically. I'm sure some will just zoom, keeping the aspect ratio and clipping the sides. Are there any that will do that and also have the option to only stretch vertically? I know that distorts the image a bit.

I have the Sony NS75H now. If it has an option to do this, I haven't found it listed.

Again, I'm looking for players that will do either or both zooming (keeping the aspect ratio) or vertical stretching (not worrying about aspect ratio).

Thanks!

Fussy viewer

01-28-07, 09:03 PM

(Somewhere in this thread, I'm sure it's stated. If so, you can just point me to it.)

Are there any fairly inexpensive players (under $250) that will allow you to vertically stretch a 16:9 image to eliminate the letterboxing? ...
Thanks!

I don't think any players can do that. Most can stretch an SD image to fill a wide screen, or zoom. Personally, seeing everybody stretched tall and thin would be far more bothersome than black areas on the top and bottom. With the many aspect ratios (4:3, 1.78:1, 1.85:1, 2.35:1...) of film and TV, black bars are a fact of life. You'll be much better off trying to get used to it.

inwo42

01-28-07, 10:38 PM

I know the Samsung upconvert models have an "EZ-View" option, which will vertically stretch the screen to eliminate the bars on a 2.35:1 image. You can then stretch it horizontally to keep the proper aspect ratio and clip the sides.

I find it disturbing that Samsung, in their user manual, states very clearly that you shouldn't view static images / black bars for more than 2 hours to avoid pixel "burn". I'm sure they mean "stuck pixels", and generally it would take more than 2 hours to do any damage, temporary or permanent.

But the fact is, the possibility is there, and with an HDMI connection, you cannot access the "zoom" modes on the set (LN-S4051D). It's as if Samsung is saying "don't do this, but we make it difficult for you to avoid it, unless you watch only movies with perfect 16:9 aspect ratios or short movies".

I returned a plasma TV because the image retention I was getting was bad...possibly a lemon, but it was still a major irritation. I don't want to worry with it with my LCD.

fubdap

01-28-07, 10:45 PM

I don't think any players can do that. Most can stretch an SD image to fill a wide screen, or zoom. Personally, seeing everybody stretched tall and thin would be far more bothersome than black areas on the top and bottom. With the many aspect ratios (4:3, 1.78:1, 1.85:1, 2.35:1...) of film and TV, black bars are a fact of life. You'll be much better off trying to get used to it.

Fussy viewer is right. The aspect ratio is the way the director intended the movie to be seen. Doing anything else to the aspect ratio would not get the full benefit of the movie.

inwo42

01-29-07, 04:49 PM

gomo657

01-29-07, 04:59 PM

All of the current Panasonics have mulitple aspect ratios to choose from to manipulate th e picture( s97,s77,s87 and s52). My s97 will fill the screen with no distortion but if must your tv probably does a better job. IMO leave it alone. :D

EchoTony

01-29-07, 06:09 PM

Huskerfan

01-29-07, 06:14 PM

inwo42

01-29-07, 07:57 PM

Thanks, gomo. I trust Panasonic for DVD players based on the reviews I've read. Samsung's upconverting models don't sound like the way to go for durability.

Sorry again for the sarcasm. I've just seen the response "the bars are there because of the director's vision". Until I see them in a movie theater, or Peter Jackson is sitting on my couch, I'll take my choice.

Vidguy

01-29-07, 08:53 PM

BobKat6

01-29-07, 11:34 PM

Maybe this was asked and answered, but I don't have time to read 60 + pages, so sorry in advance:

I'm about to replace my old Panasonic HTIB for sepreate components, and was looking at gettting an Upconverting DVD player. My HDTV has DVI input, but that's being used by the HTPC for HD. Will the DVD players upconvert and display as such through the composite hookups?

Thanks

Tony

Here is a fairly complete list of DVD players that will upconvert over component:

Helios H4000
Kingwell HD 1880
LG DVB 418 (Hacked)
LG LDA 511 (Hacked)
LG LDA 531 (Hacked)
Maya
Momitsu V880
NeuNeo (see Helios H4000)
Oppo 970 (Hacked)
Samsung 841 (Hacked)
Samsung 850 (Hacked)
Samsung 941 (Hacked)
Samsung 950 (Hacked)
Xbox1
Zenith DVB 318 (Hacked)

The player most reccomended is the Oppo.

Another option would be to look for a DVI switching device. I've not heard of one, but using DVI to HDMI cables will work with a HDMI switcher.

Good luck.
BOB

EchoTony

01-30-07, 12:13 AM

Tony, Nothing will upconvert through composite. Many DVD players upconvert through component however. In fact, many are very inexpensive these days. Go to your local electronic store and look on the box for "upconvert through component connection". Hopefully your T.V has component connections.

Thanks. I actually was meaning to say component, not composite.... Ummm, I guess I get those 2 mixed up a lot....

But thanks to you and Bobkat6

Tony

chrisclearman

01-30-07, 11:58 AM

The XBOX does not upconvert DVDs over component, only games. For DVDs the output is 480i. It works great as a DVD player, though doesn't have a lot of options like most standalone.

spoco2

01-30-07, 05:09 PM

Perhaps I should rephrase my question.

Are there any DVD players other than the Samsung which will allow me to screw up the director's apect ratio'd vision of the movie any way I want to please my eye? Or is it a moral imperative to have unused space on my large screen, which the manufacturer specifically warns is "bad" for long periods usually occupied by the movie in the director's vision, and is not covered by said manufacturer's warranty?

Sorry for the sarcasm, but I realize the movie is formatted "as the director intended" and many people out there like it that way. Personally, I find some directors don't have good vision to begin with, so I'd like to use my own intentions.

Basically, pretty much all will allow you to 'zoom' on the image, and loose the sides of a widescreen image that's more 'widescreen' than the 16:9 ratio of widescreen sets. This is pretty average as you're losing the edges of the original movie, yet not quite as bad as a fully 4:3 crop for a regular tv.

However, what you're asking for, which is to hold the width the same and just stretch the image vertically is in no way any sort of good thing. You're ending up with vertically stretched people and objects, how can this possibly be better than the director's original vision?

If you dislike a director's vision that much, why are you even watching their movies in the first place would be my question.

So, zoom in and lose the sides, yet fill your tv and keep correct sizing of everything on screen, OR just leave it as intended... directors fill their frames with amazing things (some more so than others obviously), and to intentionally chop bits off this with the thought that your vision is better than theirs... well, that's a little arrogant.

And the 'bad'ness of having the black bars on the screen is a load of crud... you're not going to have any issue at all unless you leave a fully white widescreen image with black bars on your set constantly for a day or two... all the time... no movement...

It's just not an issue these days, don't destroy a director's vision based on a misguided fear of damaging your set.

matte303

01-30-07, 05:20 PM

I tried searching on this and didn't have any luck so....I have a 4 year old Mits 65" RPTV with Component but no digital inputs. I'm looking for a relatively inexpensive upconverting (1080i over Component) dvd player that will work well with my TV, but I really need for it to drive the Composite outputs at the same time (the component outputs will be used for the 65" in the main system and I need the Composite RCA output to feed the rest of the house via a UHF modulator). The old Panny I'm replacing has a switch on the back to choose between the component and composite outputs, it won't drive both at once.

Any comments on players that would give me the best quality in the above scenario without breaking the bank? I gather from what people have said, the Oppo's don't work well with large RPTV's like mine over Component, so I've been looking at the LG DVB-418 (I know it would need to be hacked for the upconverting).

stsrep

01-30-07, 05:50 PM

I've had no problem with my hacked Oppo 970 on my Mits 50" RPTV.
Set at 1080i and no complaints at all thru component.

matte303

01-30-07, 06:06 PM

I've had no problem with my hacked Oppo 970 on my Mits 50" RPTV.
Set at 1080i and no complaints at all thru component.thanks stsrep, I just called Oppo Customer Service and they said that both sets of outputs are active. Is the hack for 1080i over component just a matter of downloading an ISO file, burning it to a cd and loading the cd in the player?

stsrep

01-30-07, 06:45 PM

Easy as cake uh pie.
Firmware instructions are on the Oppo website.
Liked this player so much I ordered another one for my Epson 500 projector to replace a 7 year old Toshiba.
I paid over $800.00 for old reliable but it's only 480p and today's budget players have more features.
Read the earlier posts to get the hack as I did.
Enjoy.

EchoTony

01-30-07, 07:39 PM

Ordered my Oppo 970 refurb today. They say it should go out within 3 days. Now I just need the audio 1/2 of my HT and I'm set....

Thanks for the info guys.

billfish33

01-30-07, 08:06 PM

Ordered my Oppo 970 refurb today. They say it should go out within 3 days. Now I just need the audio 1/2 of my HT and I'm set....

Thanks for the info guys.

sheesh,I called mthem this morning for refurbs and was told there wasn't available...
but to call next week,I'mglad I seen your post as I just called them back and this time they took my order they said looks like 4 or 5 days maybe as long as a week before it ships.

sl@cker

01-31-07, 02:29 PM

So I've read alot about upconverting dvd players, and it sounds like the Oppo DV-981HD is the consensus best one? I have one question - I have the Toshiba D-R5, which outputs 480p, 720p, and 1080i via HDMI. Is the picture I'm getting with it basically what I'd get form the Oppo? Or does Oppo use other technology to get closer to a true HD picture? And can you buy Oppo dvd players in stores?

wmcclain

01-31-07, 02:49 PM

chrisclearman

01-31-07, 03:06 PM

sl@cker

01-31-07, 03:53 PM

chrisclearman

01-31-07, 04:21 PM

You misunderstand. The Oppor works the same way your Tosh does, they just all use different methods and types of scalers.

All regular DVDs are encoded at 480i.

For digital displays, they all must display in their native resolution. Basically 720p, 1080i, or 1080p. (most plasmas have fixed pixels that aren't quite in the "standard" definition of most of these).

You can either let the TV convert the 480i, or you can send it a 480p (original "progressive scan DVD players over component), or 720p/1080i (upconverting DVD players, usually over HDMI, though some still allow over component).

People will argue about the difference it makes in letting the DVD player scale, or the TV scale, and if it matters to use component (analog) or HDMI (digital).

If you already have a progressive scan DVD player over component - and there isn't anything wrong with your picture - you probably won't think it's worth it to upgrade.

The same goes for if you already have an upconverting player.

Unless you think your DVDs look like crap, or there is a feature you would like, like DIVX or PAL or cardreader, the vast majority of users will get nothing substantial out of an Oppo (or any other upconverting player).

The marketing guys are doing a great job though.

squiredogs

02-01-07, 09:57 AM

Excellent summary, I'm starting to think there's not much difference, and should save some $$ toward a Blu-Ray.

If you already have a progressive scan DVD player over component - and there isn't anything wrong with your picture - you probably won't think it's worth it to upgrade.

The same goes for if you already have an upconverting player.

Unless you think your DVDs look like crap, or there is a feature you would like, like DIVX or PAL or cardreader, the vast majority of users will get nothing substantial out of an Oppo (or any other upconverting player).

The marketing guys are doing a great job though.

ueni

02-01-07, 11:30 AM

I have also had a terrible experience with this upscaling DVD player. The biggest problem is that it WILL NOT upscale to 1080P to my new Aquos LC-37D90U TV. When I encountered this problem, I was told by Neodigits tech support that it was a known problem with some HDMI connections, and would be addressed 'soon' via a firmware update. That was 30 days ago, and still no update. Recently, the player would not eject a disk. It was stuck in a 'open' loop, but would not open the tray. Again I contacted tech support, and they told me to force the tray open, or disassemble the unit (remove the cover) and go from there. Needless to say, I am trying to return this unit for a refund - we'll see.

While the picture quality at 1080i over HDMI is pretty good (the blacks are not very crisp), the build quality and lack of 1080P support makes this unit not worth the 'great price.' It really does seem you get what you pay for these days.

ueni

02-01-07, 11:58 AM

How do you know your HDTV will not do as good a job of upconverting?

Can someone explain how the TV does the upscaling? Is it automatic? I have a new Sharp Aquos LC-37D90U 1080P TV. If I play a DVD in my current (SD) Marantz DVD player, the TV indicates 480i as the resolution when the DVD begins playing (the DVD player is connected via component to the TV).

That is why I assume I need an HD upscaling DVD player - so I can take advantage of the 1080P capability on the TV. Am I incorrect in my assumption?

chrisclearman

02-01-07, 01:23 PM

ALL FIXED PANEL DISPLAYS SCALE EVERYTHING TO FIT THEIR NATIVE RESOLUTION.

When you play your DVD it is telling you what the incoming signal is - in your case 480i.

Moving to a progressive scan player may or may not help. It's highly unlikely, unless today you are only using composite or in some cases S-Video.

Moving to an upconverting set may help you, it may not.

If your picture looks pretty dang good (as in near HD) on a recent release DVD it's not worth upgrading your player.

EchoTony

02-01-07, 01:26 PM

Yay!

Oppo has shipped my Refurb 970!

I chose the Oppo for a number of reasons. My first reason was that my all-in-one Panasonic HTIB amp is dying and makes watching movies quite unpleasent. So I am stuck replacing everything. That means I actually needed a new DVD player for starters.
Since my TV likes component 1080i sources, and my DVI port is occupied with a HD tuner (PC PCI card) I had to get something with upscaled 1080i through component output. The idea that copy protected material was not going to upconvert to 1080i component on most players ruled them out. That left me with a few choices and I'm glad I didn't choose the Helios from what unei had to say about his....

Finally, I needed a universal player, as my Sister's family lives in Hong Kong and has access to 1000's of movies that cost next to nothing. Also, my inlaws live in Japan, and they send our son Japanese DVD's all the time. We were getting by with the hacked Mintek portable hooked up to the TV through the composite cable, but it will be nice to just drop in stuff from them into the fully functional/compatable HT player.

The memory card readers were a nice bonus, but not a real factor.

In the end, the Oppo player was the obvious choice. Me being cheap, I went with the refurbished item just to save a few bucks. Hopefully I won't get burned by the refurb gremlins.

I'll report my impressions of the Oppo 970 when it arrives, is hooked up, and has the firmware "updates" installed.

Tony

JefJarrett

02-02-07, 08:26 PM

I have a new 40" Sony V2500. I have a progressive scan DVD player (using component) as a part of my HT System. DVDs look OK - the newer DVDs look much better than older ones.

I was thinking of getting an upscaling DVD player - but I've been doing some reading on this thread...which has been excellent. I guess my TV does its own upscaling to display in its native resolution (1080p). From what I have been reading, I don't think I would see a huge difference if I switched to a DVD player that upscales, since my TV does it anyway w/ the component feed it gets already.

My Original Plan -

New HT system w/ upscaling DVD player (receiver and dvd player)
PS3

My revised plan
New HT system (only receiver) maybe spend the extra cash on a 7.1 system instead of a 5.1)
PS3

The PS3 can play BluRay discs for me, and play my old DVDs. the PS3 doesn't upconvert....but neither does my current player....and what I have learned is it wouldn't make a huge deal anyway, since my TV will do the upconverting for me.

Does any of this make sense? Am I on the right track?

On an aside - I know this is better asked on another thread...but

Do I want a HT System that has HDMI, or am I ok w/ Component (if switching through the HT system isn't a big deal to me...) I figure I can plug all my devices into my TV and just run an Optical cable into the receiver. Thoughts?

chrisclearman

02-02-07, 08:43 PM

Are you sure PS3 will play your SD DVDs? I thought I heard it doesn't? Maybe that was just that it doesn't upconvert...I agree with you not wasting money on an upconverter.

On the HDMI receiver, there are still a lot of bugs waiting for HDMI 1.3

I'd either wait, or just plan on maybe having to just to audio switching with your receiver, and video at the TV.

Gary J

02-02-07, 09:43 PM

Yes forget the up-converting DVD player. Re: HDMI I do not know what bugs he is talking about but the current HDMI 1.1 standard works very well right now and will into the future. HDMI 1.3 will be a minor upgrade that will primarily provide more bandwidth that no current hardware or software can take advantage of and will not for some time to come.

It would be wise to consider only components will HDMI now. Refer to this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=738511) thread for receivers.

chrisclearman

02-02-07, 10:02 PM

a lot of the receivers with HDMI switching have major issues with HDMI. do your research.

Gary J

02-02-07, 10:39 PM

Right. You would be hard pressed to even find a complaint in the HDMI Forum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=30&f=168) .

And JefJarrett, Here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=789994) is why you do not need to wait for HDMI 1.3.

EchoTony

02-03-07, 12:30 AM

I received my Refurbished Oppo 970HD today. Nice, fast shipping.
I opened the box (and took pictures for everyone). I was happy to see the player was carfully wrapped in a black fabric bag and nice thick foam. I was very excited. I took out the player and began opening the directions and cables. Then I noticed that there wasn't a remote control. I re-checked the box, and nope, no remote. :mad: :eek:

I called at 5:29, they close at 5:30. I was lucky enough to get customer service and they were on it, saying they would have a remote out to me immediatley.

I was able to play a disc, but couldn't do any setup or adjustments. Looked good out of the box though. I can't wait until I actually get to tweek the output.

EchoTony

02-03-07, 12:32 AM

The rest of the photos from the Oppo 970HD's arrival....

Quatre

02-03-07, 01:09 AM

The XBOX does not upconvert DVDs over component, only games. For DVDs the output is 480i. It works great as a DVD player, though doesn't have a lot of options like most standalone.

it does however upconvert both games and dvd using VGA which is the optimal and preferable connection for the 360.

Quatre

02-03-07, 01:16 AM

slacker,
I very very very much doubt you are going to feel like you spent the $150+ wisely if you already have an upconverting player. Save your money for HD/Blueray.

Most people feel kind of jipped just going from their old progressive scan (component) to these upconverting players. These things are not a revolutionary leap in image quality, and Oppo is not HD/Blueray on the cheap.

great statement. i felt kidn of jipped going from a panasonic prog scan component player to a denon 1080p upconvert over hdmi player, especially when there was a setting on by default that made the picture more washed out (black/grey setting)and actually worse then my old component non upconvert prog scan player.

you just hear a lot of hype about upconvert playes but yeah its nto getting you close to hddvd or bluray. its just nice to have something to try and upconvert the reg dvds cus hdddvd nad bluray is only as good as the movies to run on it and there is limited stuff htat comes out in those formats not to mention dvds ppl already have etc.

most blockbuster b and m stores still dotn even rent any hddvd or bluray.

i'm still looking for a 720p/1080i upconvert player tht can do it over component but since i hae the 360 hddvd addon on same tv as my denon 108op hdmi upconvert dvd player i may just use that at 720p/1080i using dvi to hdmi cable on my other tv and use the 360 addon to upconvert reg dvds to 1080p on the 1080p tv using vga cable.

EchoTony

02-03-07, 01:29 AM

i'm still looking for a 720p/1080i upconvert player tht can do it over component ....

There's a list a few pages back of all the upconverting players that can do it over component, but most require a "hack" to open this feature.

I know the Oppo 970HD does up-convert over component... That's why I bought it.

JefJarrett

02-03-07, 04:40 PM

Do you see a noticeable difference viewing things over HDMI vs Component. Say, with a DVD player or PS3, or even output from a receiver?

sl@cker

02-03-07, 04:56 PM

great statement. i felt kidn of jipped going from a panasonic prog scan component player to a denon 1080p upconvert over hdmi player, especially when there was a setting on by default that made the picture more washed out (black/grey setting)and actually worse then my old component non upconvert prog scan player.

you just hear a lot of hype about upconvert playes but yeah its nto getting you close to hddvd or bluray. its just nice to have something to try and upconvert the reg dvds cus hdddvd nad bluray is only as good as the movies to run on it and there is limited stuff htat comes out in those formats not to mention dvds ppl already have etc.

most blockbuster b and m stores still dotn even rent any hddvd or bluray.

i'm still looking for a 720p/1080i upconvert player tht can do it over component but since i hae the 360 hddvd addon on same tv as my denon 108op hdmi upconvert dvd player i may just use that at 720p/1080i using dvi to hdmi cable on my other tv and use the 360 addon to upconvert reg dvds to 1080p on the 1080p tv using vga cable.

I'd like to note that watching newer dvd's on my Toshiba D-R5 upscaling player(at 1080i output), the picture is actually close to HD quality. That's newer dvd's only, though older 16x9 dvd's still look good. I'd also like to emphasize that watching DVD's through DRC mode 2 looks much better then cinemotion, especially because my dvd player does 3:2 reverse pulldown. mode 2 is the purest, most unfiltered picture. use this setting with sharpness set at 12, and you'll be closest to theater picture quality. it's soft like a photograph, but you can see every little detail crisply, like threads/fuzz on peoples shirts for example.

jaxxx123

02-03-07, 07:23 PM

can any1 comment on the onkyo 404 upconvert DVD player?

SurfingMatt27

02-03-07, 07:38 PM

can any1 comment on the onkyo 404 upconvert DVD player?

Same here..

I would like to see more hands on reviews as well since i'm very interested in this player.

Wouldn't mind seeing a Secrets review of it too!

Fat_Albert

02-03-07, 08:53 PM

So I'm just about to pull the trigger on a KDL-46XBR2 but need some guidance on which DVD upconverter to get. There are three of them on the table for me to consider. We have the OPPO DV-981HD, DV-970HD and the Sony DVPN575H. I am definately going to use a HDMI cable to hook it up so the DV971-HD is out of the picture.

So should I spend the extra dough and go for the OPPO DV-981HD, save the $$$ and go for the SONY DVPN575H or go $20 more and get the OPPO DV-970HD. I'm planning to keep it for the next 3-5 years to see which technology will win out: the BLU-RAY or the HD-DVD.

chrisclearman

02-03-07, 10:47 PM

Why not just get an A1 or A2 for under $400? Even if Blue-ray wins you will have a better upconverting player than the Oppo.

Otherwise, get the Sony 75 or refurb Oppo 970 for $120 ish.

EchoTony

02-04-07, 12:20 AM

Why not just get an A1 or A2 for under $400? Even if Blue-ray wins you will have a better upconverting player than the Oppo.

Otherwise, get the Sony 75 or refurb Oppo 970 for $120 ish.

I would buy the Oppo 970 through A/VScience (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=768579) . They are selling it for $150 shipped. If you live in CA , the Oppo refurb is going to cost you only, like, $18 less with tax & Shipping. omg :confused:

chrisclearman

02-04-07, 01:06 AM

not everyone lives in CA. omg.

EchoTony

02-04-07, 11:19 AM

not everyone lives in CA. omg.

and that's why I said 'if you live in CA" . . .

SurfingMatt27

02-04-07, 11:55 AM

any more Onkyo impressions?

It seems like a well built player from a lot of reviews i've read.

freshwater

02-04-07, 03:51 PM

I got Toshiba XA1 at a great price ($3xx) from VE and its amazing. :D

SD is almost like watching HDDVD. I watch Lady in Water and cant tell the difference between HD & SD. 1080i
HD is as good as or better then DISH HD channels.
5:1 Analog sound is amazing , better then HDMI and optical. Theater Like experience.
Remote has backlight and very easy to use.
The build is rock solid not like some Chinese build. I think its manufacture in Japan.
You will also get 3 HDDVD free if act now from Toshiba. :D
Also Extended Warranty for $39 if needed. This machine is built very strong.

And Value Electronics is the best, they have a great price on XA1 and A2. Plus good shiping and great after support from Robert who is a senior member on this forum.

chrisclearman

02-04-07, 04:05 PM

what's View Electronics's URL? googled and didn't find it.

moxie1617

02-04-07, 04:08 PM

I think he means value electronics. Here http://www.*********************/avstc.htm

Gary J

02-04-07, 05:34 PM

HD is as good as or better then DISH HD channels.

Huh? Overly compressed HD-Lite sat? There should be no comparison whatsoever.

SurfingMatt27

02-04-07, 05:38 PM

Any Onkyo owners of the Onkyo 404 upconverting player?

would like to hear some impressions.

I'm about to pick this player up next week and try it out.

freshwater

02-05-07, 01:22 AM

what's View Electronics's URL? googled and didn't find it.

Sorry its *********************

freshwater

02-05-07, 01:27 AM

Huh? Overly compressed HD-Lite sat? There should be no comparison whatsoever.

Of all 3, Comcast, Direct TV and DISH I compare I saw DISH has better PQ then the other 2. HBOHD, DISCovery, All VOOM channels are amazing on 1080i on DISH.

wdkerbow

02-05-07, 11:07 AM

Any Onkyo owners of the Onkyo 404 upconverting player?

would like to hear some impressions.

I'm about to pick this player up next week and try it out.

I don't own the 404, but I have the 704, and I am very pleased with it. A friend of mine also bought one and he is very happy with it as well. I can't remember the differences between the two (maybe the 704 has a better DAC?)

It was easy to connect, and the setup screens were easy to navigate. Seems like I had to set the audio to "bitstream" instead of "auto" to get the sound through my AVR.

I have an Sony XBR1 (only 720p), so I set the 704 to 720p and the PQ is great. We also like the 6 disc randomize va the "Party Mode", great for parties, etc...

You can download the manual at www.onkyousa.com in the support section. The only downside is that the 704 (and probably the 404) do not play SACDs. The CD and MP3 disc playback has a nice on-screen interface that tells you track and disc information.

I would recommend the 704 (and probably thr 404 based upon my experience with the 704)

SurfingMatt27

02-05-07, 01:14 PM

I don't own the 404, but I have the 704, and I am very pleased with it. A friend of mine also bought one and he is very happy with it as well. I can't remember the differences between the two (maybe the 704 has a better DAC?)

It was easy to connect, and the setup screens were easy to navigate. Seems like I had to set the audio to "bitstream" instead of "auto" to get the sound through my AVR.

I have an Sony XBR1 (only 720p), so I set the 704 to 720p and the PQ is great. We also like the 6 disc randomize va the "Party Mode", great for parties, etc...

You can download the manual at www.onkyousa.com in the support section. The only downside is that the 704 (and probably the 404) do not play SACDs. The CD and MP3 disc playback has a nice on-screen interface that tells you track and disc information.

I would recommend the 704 (and probably thr 404 based upon my experience with the 704)

Thank you very much for the response..I have no intention to use SACD playback since i just don't care about it.

Looks like i'll pick up the 404 model sometime next week to try it out.

glbanks@yahoo.co

02-06-07, 03:02 PM

Thank you very much for the response..I have no intention to use SACD playback since i just don't care about it.

Looks like i'll pick up the 404 model sometime next week to try it out.

I've had the 404 for about a month and I like it very much. I have always bought Onkyo stuff. It is always high quality. In fact I sold my $299 old Onkyo (5 disc model 503 without progressive scan) on ebay for this unit.Their service department is excellent. I had a question as to why when using HDMI I wasn't getting Dolby 5.1 and they accurately told me that I had to shut off the HDMI to the TV when using the digital coax cable to the amp. No problems at all. I must say though that the component cables looked almost as good or as good at the HDMI. By the way I have it set output to the TV at 720p since this is closest to my Vizio's 768. You can't go wrong. Have fun!

chrisclearman

02-07-07, 06:14 PM

o I've now tried the following, all calibrated using DVE:

XBOX 480i over component
Panny S52 480i over component
Panny S52 480p over component
Panny S52 480p over HDMI
Panny S52 720p/1080i over HDMI
Sony 75 720p/1080i over HDMI
Tosh HD-A2 720p over HDMI
Tosh HD-A2 720p over HDMI

All into a Sony 46E2000 3LCD 720p.

They all looked basically the same, except the 480p in all cases was absolute crap. And the Panny over component does a weird zoom thing that kills 10% of the picture. Everything else was nearly indistinguishable.

On the A2 the 1080i looks SLIGHTLY crisper, which would imply the display does a better job of downscaling then the A2 does. So maybe my display is just pretty good. So your mileage might vary...

jess31

02-09-07, 07:51 PM

wmcclain

02-10-07, 07:41 AM

Have a Mitsubishi WS-65, no hdmi or dvi imputs. Bought this player because it will upconvert sd dvds to 1080i via component. Problem is it does this only with non-copy protected discs. If i set the resolution mode to 1080i for copy protected dvds the player reverts to 480p. Anyone know a way around this? PS. have dish hd stb w/hd programing and ota hd tuner and the picture is great, almost life like.

If there were a component upscaling hack, it would probably be listed here:
http://www.videohelp.com/dvdhacks.php?dvdplayer=LG+V194H&hits=50&Search=Search

Nothing shown, sorry. It wasn't advertised as upscaling copy protected discs over component, was it? That would be unusual these days.

-Bill

BobKat6

02-10-07, 04:32 PM

Have a Mitsubishi WS-65, no hdmi or dvi imputs. Bought this player because it will upconvert sd dvds to 1080i via component. Problem is it does this only with non-copy protected discs. If i set the resolution mode to 1080i for copy protected dvds the player reverts to 480p. Anyone know a way around this? PS. have dish hd stb w/hd programing and ota hd tuner and the picture is great, almost life like.

There was a similar post a few months ago. Try doing a search on "v194h" to find other owners who may be able to help you.

BOB

jess31

02-10-07, 07:41 PM

No Wm it was not advertised that way. Just that it would upconvert via component. Didn't mention which DVDs.

braunkraut

02-11-07, 01:06 AM

Anybody here have experience with the Yamaha DVD S659?

phipp01

02-14-07, 11:57 AM

I would buy the Oppo 970 through A/VScience (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=768579) . They are selling it for $150 shipped. If you live in CA , the Oppo refurb is going to cost you only, like, $18 less with tax & Shipping. omg :confused:
Why not cut out the middleman and buy directly from OPPO and pay $157 OMG :confused:

santiago25

02-14-07, 03:03 PM

I have a samsung hps5073, which upconverter dvd player should i get

chrisclearman

02-14-07, 03:13 PM

The $2500 Denon

EchoTony

02-14-07, 04:57 PM

Why not cut out the middleman and buy directly from OPPO and pay $157 OMG :confused:

Because in CA we are also taxed on that purchase, so it's going to cost 161.25 + shipping.... AVScience has it for $150, no tax and no shipping cost. That's almost $20 less than Oppo's direct price if buying new. And my point at that time was that at $150 to my door for a new unit is only $15 more than the shipped refurb I purchased directly from Oppo.

btw: After the upconversion hack and making this thing region free (both very easy to do), I am totally satisfied with my Oppo 970HD. Okay, I love it. I feel better now.

;)

phipp01

02-14-07, 07:37 PM

btw: After the upconversion hack and making this thing region free (both very easy to do), I am totally satisfied with my Oppo 970HD. Okay, I love it. I feel better now.
;)
Ok what is the upconversion hack and what are the benefits derived from doing this? And what is the importance of being region free? Besides being able to play movies from other regions.

disneyandbond

02-14-07, 10:37 PM

Hello all,

Looking for advice: I am going to be purchasing a Sharp Aquos 32" LCD (LC32D43U) tomorrow night, and am thinking about an upconverting player.

I was sold on Oppo from some 'net reviews, but these boards have caused me to reconsider. Now I don't know if the sony NS75H wouldn't be better, or even which Oppo to go with.

I'm a newbie to the HD world - this TV will have component for sure plus 2 HDMI inputs, I don't know if it has DVI. (maybe someone with the 32" D42/D43 could clarify?)

Do I want a player that uses HDMI? I thought it was the be-all-and-end-all, but sounds like many on this forum prefer a component connection. I have no idea what the difference is in picture or audio. Thus, would the Sony 75 suit my needs ok, or do I want the Oppo? (and is it worth it to get the 981HD Oppo over the 970HD for my LC32D43U, which is a non 1080p machine?) I just want something that will look best with my new screen.

Comments appreciated...thanks!

P.S. Will post on 2-3 threads, as not everyone reads each thread...apologies if you've seen this before!

chrisclearman

02-14-07, 10:45 PM

If you need a new DVD player anyways, sure, get the Oppo 970. HDMI (1 connection) or Component + RCA/Optical will both look the same on your set.

The Sony 75 is just as good for your needs for DVD.

IBC2000

02-14-07, 11:45 PM

Sorry for the simple nature of this question - perhaps it has been answered before - but I didn't find it in the search.

Is the OPPO Digital - DV981HD an HD-DVD player, or just an Up Converting Player?

I am about to get a Sharp LC-52D92U and have a lot of older DVD's in inventory.

TIA

strutter

02-15-07, 06:43 AM

Up Converting

wmcclain

02-15-07, 06:45 AM

wmcclain

02-15-07, 07:17 AM

Ok what is the upconversion hack and what are the benefits derived from doing this?

If you want to use component, copy-protected discs (which includes all commercial discs) are limited to 480i and 480p on the Oppo 970 (and many other models). The firmware hack removes this restriction.

If you are using HDMI or DVI, this doesn't matter. "Backup" discs which have had CSS removed are also not restricted.

The restriction is not technical, but contractual. To get permission to use certain essential patents, vendors must agree not to allow upconversion of copy-protected material over component. Not even the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players can do it, even though they allow HD signals over component for HD sources (for the time being).

As everyone understands, this makes no sense.

And what is the importance of being region free? Besides being able to play movies from other regions.

That's it! As well as being region free the Oppos do PAL<->NTSC conversion.

-Bill

phipp01

02-15-07, 08:55 AM

If you want to use component, copy-protected discs (which includes all commercial discs) are limited to 480i and 480p on the Oppo 970 (and many other models). The firmware hack removes this restriction.

If you are using HDMI or DVI, this doesn't matter. "Backup" discs which have had CSS removed are also not restricted.

The restriction is not technical, but contractual. To get permission to use certain essential patents, vendors must agree not to allow upconversion of copy-protected material over component. Not even the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players can do it, even though they allow HD signals over component for HD sources (for the time being).

As everyone understands, this makes no sense.

That's it! As well as being region free the Oppos do PAL<->NTSC conversion.

-Bill
Ahhhh I see. So if I am hooked up thru HDMI theres no need for the hack. Thank you I now understand :)

sl@cker

02-15-07, 10:23 AM

I have the Toshiba D-R5, which upconverts to 1080i, can anyone comment on wheher this is one of the better Toshiba upconverting dvd players? And are there any other upconverting dvd players that would be significantly better? I do like that it does 3:2 reverse pulldown, so i can use DRC mode 2 on my KDSR-60XBR1, which is basically an unfiltered/untainted picture. It's here:
http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/dvr/product.asp?model=d-r5

BSTNFAN

02-15-07, 03:35 PM

wmcclain

02-15-07, 03:51 PM

Where can I find the firmware hack for the 970?

http://www.filefactory.com/file/ebf391/
http://www.looler.com/file/2823/613AMOD-iso.html

Note that this is based on somewhat older firmware so you lose some new features. See the 970 thread for details.

Installation is the same as for Oppo-supported firmware.

-Bill

sl@cker

02-16-07, 12:21 PM

Mikey Palmice

02-17-07, 12:31 PM

wmcclain

02-17-07, 01:18 PM

I just started using my panasonic player with the HDMI cable so I can upconvert. It's a DVD-S77S. I popped in my Soprano's season 2 disc, which is in 4:3, at least it was when I used the component cables. Now, on my sony A10, it shows as widescreen when I put it in normal mode.

I am very happy with the PQ now, but just wanted to know if that is normal for upconverting?

Also, if my TV is 720p, and from what I have heard upconverts to that resolution, why does the upconverting DVD player look so much better than a standard DVD player with the TV doing the heavy lifting?

thanks

I think THE SOPRANOS has always been widescreen, although I don't know if all DVD editions have been: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0141842/dvd. Don't know what was up with your previous player.

If you are using 720p then the player is doing the heavy lifting. There may be other quality differences between your current player and others: how well it deinterlaces and uses HDMI, etc.

Mikey Palmice

02-17-07, 11:01 PM

I think THE SOPRANOS has always been widescreen, although I don't know if all DVD editions have been: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0141842/dvd. Don't know what was up with your previous player.

If you are using 720p then the player is doing the heavy lifting. There may be other quality differences between your current player and others: how well it deinterlaces and uses HDMI, etc.

Ok, I just checked it out. I set the player to 480p and I was able to put in in 4:3 when I set my TV to normal. I went back to 720p and it went 16:9 automatically. Went back to the wide settings on the TV, and normal wasn't even an option anymore.

WSP1013

02-20-07, 11:14 PM

Hey guys, I'm new to this forum and forgive me if this has been answered or addressed. I just bought a Phillips 1080p LCD from Costco. The fiasco that followed is lenghtly so I won't go into it but ultimately (from what I understand), the TV will upconvert a 1080i to 1080p with the exception of gaming input yet not accept an 1080p input! My question is that will my Samsung DVD-HD850 upconverting player take the DVD to 1080i through HMDI and then the TV take the picture to 1080p? Thanks in advance for any knowledge this novice could use.

wmcclain

02-21-07, 07:17 AM

My question is that will my Samsung DVD-HD850 upconverting player take the DVD to 1080i through HMDI and then the TV take the picture to 1080p?

Yes. Doesn't it work?

-Bill

WSP1013

02-21-07, 08:55 AM

Yes. Doesn't it work?

-Bill

I've been wiating on this TV for a month :rolleyes: and when it gets here I want to make sure there are no hang-ups. Thanks for the input!

chrisclearman

02-21-07, 10:56 AM

you need to go read up some more.

your TV (like all fixed panel TVs) are only progressive. I.e. they light up every pixel for every frame. There is no such thing as showing an interlaced (1080i) image on these sets.

Until recently though these sets could only take a 1080i input (interlaced frames). It then puts them together to show a 1080p image. The newest sets can take 1080p source directly and display it.

You will not see any difference in RESOLUTION between 1080i and 1080p source. Where you CAN see a difference is in film based mediums where you can experience things like judder because of the process of moving from an interlaced image to a progressive image with different frame rates (60 fps vs 24 fps).

dubstructure

02-22-07, 01:31 AM

What's the best for a DLP Projector?....

I just received my Mitsubishi HD1000U DLP 720p Projector. Thanks to all of those on the Projector forums. Now I'm interested in an upconverting DVD player. Seems like for a college kid on a budget the Oppo DV-970HD is my best bet.

Does anybody know what would be wise to get specifically geared for my projector, or dlp projector's in general?

Thanks

WSP1013

02-22-07, 11:32 AM

adamanteus

02-23-07, 03:54 AM

Because in CA we are also taxed on that purchase, so it's going to cost 161.25 + shipping.... AVScience has it for $150, no tax and no shipping cost. That's almost $20 less than Oppo's direct price if buying new. And my point at that time was that at $150 to my door for a new unit is only $15 more than the shipped refurb I purchased directly from Oppo.

btw: After the upconversion hack and making this thing region free (both very easy to do), I am totally satisfied with my Oppo 970HD. Okay, I love it. I feel better now.

;)

exactly. the total on the 970 for CA purchases from OPPO is $169. normally i would've taken the AVScience route because- $20 is $20- not all of us here in CA are rich and famous :). but, i needed it in a hurry so i bit the bullet and bought a new one.

so IF YOU LIVE IN CA. it WOULD BE CHEAPER TO PURCHASE THE OPPO THROUGH AVScience. OMG :confused:

oh well, after the hacks- i love my opppo too :D.

Joseph MAK

02-25-07, 10:03 PM

So, now I have my 5 posts, I'm allowed to post a link to my review of the Sony DVPNS76H upscaling DVD player (http://simon.oconnorlamb.com/sonyDVPNS76H.html). It looks like the NS76 is the same as the NS75 offered in the states, but has DivX playback as well. Also, in Australia this unit is Region Free out of the box.

I compare the output of it to the DVD player it replaces for me, the Pioneer DV466, with a lot of screen captures to check out.

Hope it's of help to people here.

On your photos comparing Sony's HDMI outputs and Sony's/Pioneer's component outputs, I noticed that the images output from HDMI are Greener than those output from the components. It appears to me that you have calibrated each output with THX discs, and hence the I would expect the colours among the outputs should be much more similar.

Do you know why the HDMI outputs were Greener than the others?

In fact, I have a similar issue with my Oppo 981HD and am exploring the reasons behind.

JM

StephenMSmith

02-26-07, 03:47 PM

It's a colorspace issue. Most, if not all, dvd players that will upconvert over component (like my Samsung HD950) use the same colorspace as for hdmi which is wrong. Luckily, the service menu in my rptv has separate colorspace params for each type of input so I could correct it. Others won't be so lucky.

DrPainMD

03-01-07, 09:09 AM

I have the LG DVD DV7832NXC (July 2004 manufacture date) dvd player and some dvds do not upconvert. I'm using a vga to component cable. I heard there is a firmware solution for this? Where do I find it?

Thanks

lilstinky

03-01-07, 11:08 AM

Which Oppo player is considered to be the best upconverting player right now(they have 2 or 3 on the website)? I have a PS3 but from what I've read it doesn't upconvert regular dvd material. I had been using my 360 going through the vga input for up conversion but I just bought a new tv which requires the 360 to go through the component input which cuts out the up conversion for the 360. I just want to buy the best upconverting stand alone unit that out right now and I've heard its the Oppo units.

mzupeman

03-01-07, 11:16 AM

This is just personal opinion, but if your TV's native resolution is 1080p, then go with the latest model of Oppo which does 1080p. If not, then go for the 970HD.

lilstinky

03-01-07, 03:55 PM

This is just personal opinion, but if your TV's native resolution is 1080p, then go with the latest model of Oppo which does 1080p. If not, then go for the 970HD.

Thanks. I will look for that. My new SXRD does does except 1080p when using the HDMI ports.

sswall1969

03-03-07, 08:02 AM

I've been searching but have not seen much feedback on Yamaha Upconvert DVD players. I just purchased Yamaha AV Receiver RX-V2700 and was thinking about purchasing a matching Yamaha DVD player... specifically DVD-S1700.

This will be used with a Panasonic TH-50PH9UK 50" Plasma TV, running through HDMI at 1080i max.

Looking for feedback on the DVD-S1700 or Yamaha DVD players in general.

George

03-03-07, 10:09 AM

Hey I have an old DLP projector.

It has both DVI-I and vga/component inputs, but its not HDCP.

Is this 970 DVD player the best match for those with DVI inputs but not HDCP.

Otherwise I believe I need to find an upconverting component out DVD player.

Please advise

moxie1617

03-03-07, 12:31 PM

Hey I have an old DLP projector.

Is this 970 DVD player the best match for those with DVI inputs but not HDCP.

Please advise

You would want the 971 - it has DVI w/o HDCP. The 970 won't output anything over it's HDMI port if there is no HDCP handshake.

George

03-04-07, 08:21 PM

Will the 971 require the firmware patch to output 720P, 1080i or 1080P?

Or will it send 720P or 1080i as recieved?

moxie1617

03-04-07, 10:06 PM

No firmware patch is necessary to produce 480p, 720p, or 1080i through the DVI port of the 971. It will not upconvert over component. Also, the DVI connection is digital, not analog so check to see if your projector is digital or analog. If it's analog, you are out of luck Then you are back to the 970 using component and the firmware hack.

maffud

03-04-07, 10:41 PM

You would want the 971 - it has DVI w/o HDCP. The 970 won't output anything over it's HDMI port if there is no HDCP handshake.
But with DLPs, Oppo recommends the 970 rather than than the 971 due to macroblocking issues, I thought.

Sorry if I missed something.

wmcclain

03-05-07, 07:43 AM

But with DLPs, Oppo recommends the 970 rather than than the 971 due to macroblocking issues, I thought.

Sorry if I missed something.

The original poster does not have HDCP on his DVI port, so no HDMI player will work. The 971 would work because it's DVI output does not have HDCP either.

If the display has component ports, then the 970 would work with its component output, but not with its HDMI output.

-Bill

Stimpson J. Cat

03-05-07, 09:46 AM

Anybody have any information on the availability of the Momitsu v888n player in Europe? I have been trying to find it here, but have not had much luck. The momitsu.nl website also seems to be down, and they are listed on the main Momitsu site as the only European source.

Anybody in Europe actually manage to get one of these?

Thanks,

Stimpy

Edited: I meant the v888n. Not sure what I was thinking when I said 900.

maffud

03-05-07, 03:51 PM

The original poster does not have HDCP on his DVI port, so no HDMI player will work. The 971 would work because it's DVI output does not have HDCP either.

If the display has component ports, then the 970 would work with its component output, but not with its HDMI output.

-Bill
Thanks for clarifying. I am currently looking at getting a DVD player to go with my Samsung DLP display (5687), and I had just given up on the Oppo 971 and 981 units due to the macroblock enhancement issues. I believe the 5687 is HDCP compliant, so the 970 may be best for me. I could always use component output, anyway.

wmcclain

03-05-07, 05:19 PM

Thanks for clarifying. I am currently looking at getting a DVD player to go with my Samsung DLP display (5687), and I had just given up on the Oppo 971 and 981 units due to the macroblock enhancement issues. I believe the 5687 is HDCP compliant, so the 970 may be best for me. I could always use component output, anyway.

HDMI always has HDCP, so you should be ok.

-Bill

Sam Johnson

03-05-07, 05:20 PM

I've spent about an hour trying to find an answer to this question: will upconversion make any improvement in the display quality of DVDs recorded at home from analog TV? I have a Sony KD-30XS955 HDTV and wonder if there is any benefit to getting an upconverting DVD player to watch what I have recorded myself -- or is it only beneficial when playing commercial DVDs? Would really appreciate an answer before I invest in yet another player (I have several!) Thanks.

escapethematrix

03-07-07, 01:51 PM

Sam, I agree. I'm confused also. I have a component vdeo jvc dvd player (xv-n340). My panny 600u is on it's way and I dont know if I should stick with what I have or spend $100-150 on a upscaling player.

I might just wait to see what the picture looks like and go from there. At least I'll have HDMI from comcast.

-Gary

bigsnyder

03-07-07, 03:30 PM

Upconverting players IMO are only beneficial for users of fixed resolution displays, and
even then better PQ is not a guarantee. Remember the source material is still 720x480
(for NTSC). Upconverting players still have to work with that medium.

C Snyder

maffud

03-07-07, 10:06 PM

SurfingMatt27

03-07-07, 10:39 PM

I think some upconverting DVD players may result in a better overall image than letting the TV do the upconversion from a standard DVD player just because the player would be upconverting a digital stream directly from the disc, while the TV would be dealing with an analog signal via Component or S-Video. But that's just a guess.

I would further guess that if you already have a progressive scan player and you are using component video to transport it, then there is probably no big gain to be had from an upscaling player. But if you're like me, and you are currently using a DVD player that only offers S-Video out (I know!), then the digital output of an upscaling player is more appealing. But I may just get a standard, progressive-scan player with component out and wait for HD-DVD or Blu-ray prices to drop. Or until I can convince the wife that I need a PS3.

your absolutley correct!

Using a digital connection is also better for the PQ since by using component,S-video,Composite, etc.. it has to go through the players DAC circuit which can degrade the original signal somewhat and even add noise to the signal when it wasn't inherently there in the first place.

By using HDMI or DVI you bypass the DAC circuit and pass a pur digital un altered stream directly to your display, hence the better PQ you notice. :)

David_OSU

03-08-07, 07:02 PM

Some of this is taken from another post I made in the DVD basics thread about scaling -- the upconvert concept really belongs here instead.

I came here looking for some info about upscaling DVD players, and found I may have more answers than questions. I was looking for a comparison of using 480p from 'any old' DVD player to using an upconverting player that matches its output to the display resolution. So, in the first case, the DVD player does no scaling, and the TV does all the scaling. In the second case, the DVD player does all the scaling. If the scalers were equal in fidelity, and the interconnect lossless (digital), then there should really be no difference at all. And if this were true, then an upconverting player would be a waste of money.

However, as an engineer, I do know that it is POSSIBLE for the DVD player to do a better job. If I designed the player, I would do the upconversion during the inverse DCT decoding of the MPEG stream. In other words, I would decompress from the frequency domain data (that is recorded onto disk) into a higher resolution spatial data (higher than 720x480). This will result in both a higher resolution image (technically, oversampled from the compressed data) as well as introduce oversampling artifacts. However, careful filtering of the resulting image can remove most of the artifacts while producing an image that is actually higher resolution than 720x480, not just upscaled. The technical reasons why this is possible requires a detailed understanding of the DCT transform used in MPEG compression, and is way beyond the scope of this post. As far as I'm concerned, this is the RIGHT way to do upconversion in the DVD player, and it will be able to outperform the simple upscaler in the TV.

However, I am not aware of any DVD players that actually do this. If someone has some spare time (and the technical background), they can modify some MPEG decode software to upscale during the inverse transform (by zero padding the DCT data into a higher resolution matrix?). The idea is you take each macroblock, for example, and decode it directly into a macroblock with, say, 4X the resolution, with all of the original frequency components fully represented in the larger macroblock. This will, of course, introduce oversampling artifacts, and the filtering for this will be the magic that makes it work well. The end result should appear to have higher resolution than the simple upscaled version. And, in fact, the image will contain more accurate spatial content than the upscaled version. In some cases, it might even make a regular DVD look like an HD-DVD. And, of course, there will always be certain images or test patterns that will look like hell with this type of resolution recovery/enhancement.

So, can someone please design, manufacture, and sell my conceptual upconverting DVD player, so I can buy it? Faroudji? Anyone?

Gary J

03-08-07, 07:08 PM

So, can someone please design, manufacture, and sell my conceptual upconverting DVD player?
I'll get right on that.

Stimpson J. Cat

03-09-07, 04:10 AM

I am a physicist with some experience in frequency domain resampling and interpolation methods, and while what you have said is technically correct, I think that it misses the key area where different scalers show their strengths and weaknesses.

In effect, frequency domain resampling can be though of as an optimal way to resample an image, but optimal in what way? The advantage to frequency domain resampling is that all spatial derivatives of the image are continuous. This makes the image nice and smooth, no matter how much you resample it. It grows more and more blurry, but there are no pixelization artifacts. This is what good spatial domain rescaling methods, such as cubic splines, attempt to do, by making sure that the first few derivatives are continuous.

But unless you are upscaling by a very large factor, this simply isn't much of an issue. from DVD to 1080p is less than a factor of three. For this, cubic splines are just fine. Any discontinuities in the 3rd and higher derivatives simply are not going to be visible at that resolution. Put simply, in this respect we can expect pretty much any scaler out there to be equally good in this respect.

Where the quality of scalers differs, is in the post-processing. Things like removing noise and mpeg artifacts (both of which tend to be enhanced by upscaling), sharpening edges without introducing ringing artifacts (so that the larger image does not appear blurry), and so on.

Anyway, I don't see that there would be any real advantage in what you suggest. It would require adding a large amount of extra processing power to the IDCT chip (to inverse transform the large macroblocks), to accomplish what can already be done with very little processing power.

Also, it seems very likely to me that what you suggest would actually reduce the quality. It would tend to enhance the edges between macroblocks, because while the frequency domain resampling will result in continuous derivatives within the blocks, it will not produce continuous derivatives between them. Spatial rescaling does.

Stimpy

maffud

03-09-07, 09:59 PM

Ow. My brain hurts.

David_OSU

03-09-07, 10:46 PM

Thanks for your comments, Stimpson, I was looking for someone to think about this a bit and provide some thoughtful feedback.
Where the quality of scalers differs, is in the post-processing. Things like removing noise and mpeg artifacts (both of which tend to be enhanced by upscaling), sharpening edges without introducing ringing artifacts (so that the larger image does not appear blurry), and so on.
Stimpy
I agree, and my scheme also would rely heavily on the post-processing filters.
Also, it seems very likely to me that what you suggest would actually reduce the quality. It would tend to enhance the edges between macroblocks, because while the frequency domain resampling will result in continuous derivatives within the blocks, it will not produce continuous derivatives between them. Spatial rescaling does.
Stimpy
Yes, the frequency domain resampling will definitely enhance the macroblock edges and introduce artifacts. However, I still believe with the right post-processing filters, these can be eliminated. The spatial frequency of the macroblock edges is known, so it can be specifically attenuated. You just have to be careful you don't create a screen-door effect. High frequency ringing can also be addressed with the right kind of filters. These filters may need to be quite advanced, and will likely require an adaptive application, not just a straight convolution filter.

Anyway, the idea came to me when I thought about some clever MP3 audio decoders which perform the inverse DCT at higher precision than 16 bits. They do all the math at 24 or 32 bits, then dither the final output to 16 bits. This reduces the overall THD of the conversion at the expense of a small amount of added random noise. Along with the frequency domain resampling, I would also try doing all the DCT math at higher precision throughout all of the operations (inverse DCT and post-processing), followed by a final dither to 8 bits. As a side benefit, this should reduce the visibility of banding that may be present in the original DVD material in very gradual gradients.

Stimpson J. Cat

03-10-07, 08:52 AM

I think that the mp3 scheme you refer to is designed deal with the issue of discreteness. Fourier transforms are inherently floating point operations, but for mp3 streams the output of the decoding in 16bit integers. in effect this means rounding floating point numbers to the nearest integer value. Rescaling that output to a higher bit-rate can't actually improve the the signal (though temporal filtering could then provide some improvement). By doing the decoding directly to a higher bitrate, you could possibly eliminate some of the rounding error inherent in the process, and would not need any additional temporal filtering.

This seems to be quite different from what you suggest, though. What you describe for mp3's would be analogous to decoding the video to 48 or 72 bit color, rather than 24 bit. What you have suggested for video decoding would be analogous to decoding mp3's to a higher sampling frequency.

Stimpy

ditch-digger

03-13-07, 04:32 PM

i just came home with the samsung hd 860, hooked it up to my samsung 61" hls6188w (hdmi). Before this i had a sony 5 disc 480p player thru component. Well all i can say is that the samsung is going back. I think it looks terrible, and the higher 720p/1080i pics look even worse. Not ready to give up on the whole up converting dvd player yet (will try the denon tomorrow) but wow what a disappointment. :( :(

wmcclain

03-13-07, 04:45 PM

ditch-digger

03-13-07, 05:42 PM

Did you use a calibration disc? A display must be calibrated for each new input device and connection method.

-Bill

yes sir. is it the player or me..? i am still one of the minority the prefers the component over hdmi for my dish hd.?. should i try the denon.? just fyi my friend has an lg up converting player and i thought the same.??

kiwi2000

03-13-07, 07:34 PM

I have a samsung hd850 set @720p through hdmi and a panasonic connected with component. I find the samsung smoother than the panasonic component. They are both very close in picture quality. It is not night and day for differences.

BobKat6

03-14-07, 01:20 PM

yes sir. is it the player or me..? i am still one of the minority the prefers the component over hdmi for my dish hd.?. should i try the denon.? just fyi my friend has an lg up converting player and i thought the same.??

Though the most reccomended upconverting over component DVD player is still the Oppo 970, I am very happy with my LG DVB418 playing on my component only Mitsubishi. The LG is, to my knowledge, the least expensive player available with refurbished units being sold on eBay at around $80.00 delivered.

Bob.

isamu

03-14-07, 03:44 PM

do any of the Upconverting DVD Players blow away an HTPC using ZoomPlayer/FFDShow/Avisynth?

bigsnyder

03-14-07, 03:55 PM

No, but HTPC obviously takes considerable time and patience to set up for that kind
of performance. For ease of use sake, I would prefer an Oppo.

ditch-digger

03-14-07, 05:33 PM

do any of the Upconverting DVD Players blow away an HTPC using ZoomPlayer/FFDShow/Avisynth?

"blow away" other than going from 480i to 1080p pq i don't believe anything really "blows" anything away. i have a hard time telling the difference between 720p and 1080p...?

and just a funny story. the other day when i got the dvd player the salesman told me i should get an hdmi cable, i told him i got one the other day from newegg.com, he asked how much, i told him $8.00. he said it was not very good quality, so i said i would bring it in and he can hook it up to identical tv's with matching components. if he or his manager could tell what was the expensive one i would buy it, but if he lost and picked mine, he would have to buy me the cable, and dvd player.

he declined..???

said he was not allowed.???

David_OSU

03-14-07, 09:13 PM

By doing the decoding directly to a higher bitrate, you could possibly eliminate some of the rounding error inherent in the process, and would not need any additional temporal filtering.
Stimpy
Right, you can increase the accuracy of the inverse DCT and subsequent operations (filtering & scaling) by using more bits. This is why LCD electronics often employ 10-bit or 12-bit processing, even when the LCD driver is limited to 8-bits. If you start with 8-bits, then do a bunch of processing at 8-bit precision, you usually end up with only 6-bits or so of actual data. So why not do all of the processing in the DVD player at higher precision? This is different from my frequency oversampling concept, but this technique should be employed along with the other.
What you have suggested for video decoding would be analogous to decoding mp3's to a higher sampling frequency.
Stimpy
Sort of, yes. Except it is image data in two dimensions, as opposed to temporal audio data in one dimesion. But the concept is similar -- decode to a higher sampling frequency instead of upscaling to the higher sample frequency (which is more like sample rate conversion in audio).

I guess the audio analogy of my frequency oversampling is like what many audio player plugins do to expand audio bandwidth via harmonic band replication. In audio, this can synthesize both lower and higher frequencies that are not in the original material, but seem to 'fit' with the audio. The end result is that it sounds better (when done right), although not exactly the same sound as encoded. This is what I was trying to get at with an upconverting DVD player. Synthesize the missing high frequency image components during the inverse DCT (because that's an easy way to do it). It won't look exactly like the original image in HD, but it should look 'better' (better than simple upscaling, anyway).

ditch-digger

03-16-07, 03:15 PM

alright then. well i returned the samsung, and came home today with the Denon dvd-557. Wow this thing is amazing, i have been thru 3 up converting dvd players and was ready to give up, i am so glad i did not. the denon is great, i guess you really get what you pay for (i got it open box for $139.00)

i am very happy and hope this helps someone decide..?? its well worth it.

prime21

03-21-07, 02:21 AM

I bought a sony DVP-NS75H off of epay for $60 total and am extrememly happy..It's a far cry from what i was seeing with my PS2. My SD-DVD's look almost like HD to me now. Its an incredible difference. But then again, i'm not a videophile like alot of guys on this forum. But i do know high def when i see it, and the picture on this player isnt far off of that. I would strongly suggest it for folks on a budget.

stejhu

03-23-07, 04:37 AM

wmcclain

03-23-07, 07:37 AM

i've read several posts about oppo players as well as denon players. what would be the best make/model to get a great upscaled 1080p picture out of my tv via hdmi? the 970, 971, 981? or a denon? i'm not looking to break the bank.

Both Denon and Oppo have excellent reputations. I have been pleased with my Oppo 981 and think it is an easy choice for 1080p displays.

is there any point to getting a player that upscales all the way to 1080p considering that my tv would further upscale a 1080i pic to 1080p anyways?

Well, that is much discussed here and opinions vary. On my gear, both 720p and 1080p look better than 1080i, but it's not night-and-day. Just a subtle improvement.

DVDs are recorded as 480i. Scaling requires a progressive signal. To get a 1080p signal a player must do:

480i -> 480p -> 1080p

To get a 1080i signal it must do:

480i -> 480p -> 1080p -> 1080i (and then the display does 1080i -> 1080p)

I can't stand the thought of that reinterlacing step, which is probably irrational of me.

-Bill

etp

03-23-07, 07:44 AM

I have read through several posts and am now thoroughly confused (yes, i'm what you might call a noob). I have a 1080p sharp 52" 62U and was considering getting an upconverting dvd player. it has two hdmi inputs as well as component, s-video, etc. , but no dvi inputs. i've read several posts about oppo players as well as denon players. what would be the best make/model to get a great upscaled 1080p picture out of my tv via hdmi? the 970, 971, 981? or a denon? i'm not looking to break the bank. note: i believe i only have ntsc format dvds. is there any point to getting a player that upscales all the way to 1080p considering that my tv would further upscale a 1080i pic to 1080p anyways? anyways, i'm sure i sound like a complete moron which i am when it comes to this stuff, but any help from you guys would be greatly appreciated, even if it comes with criticism which it probably should given my lack of knowledge.
I have the same exact setup and will be looking at a solution this Summer. My RCA only does 1080i as well as my new Pana 46V. Blue RAY and HD are getting cheaper and many upconvert with outstanding quality to 1080P. The PS3 will have that feature in two months and I may go that route. By Christmas this will be all settled for sure with cheaper players and a clear format lead.
The Sharp will not upconvert any signal to my knowledge. You will need a 1080P signal from somewhere.

ditch-digger

03-23-07, 07:47 AM

as i said before, i went with a (mind you these were all sub $150 players) samsung (junk) lg ok for standard but up conversion was junk, a sony i liked but just was not good enough, and a denon 557. the denon was the only one that i actually noticed a difference when upscaling..? i use an hdmi for my samsung hls 6188.

the oppo sounds great, but its hard to buy it and try it, and then take it back to the store if you dont like it. the guy at circuit city new me by name when i was done.

my whole thing is buy it, bring it home, and return it if you are not 100% happy. I went thru a plasma 50", and an lcd 42" from tweeter before i settled for my samsung. talk is just that. :D take it home...and see for yourself.

wmcclain

03-23-07, 07:58 AM

The Sharp will not upconvert any signal to my knowledge. You will need a 1080P signal from somewhere.

All fixed-pixel devices (which is everything except CRTs) will deinterlace (if necessary) and scale (if necessary) any supported input signal to their native resolution.

-Bill

oldguy13

03-23-07, 10:32 AM

I hope this is the right place to ask a really basic dvd question or two. If not, I hope someone will direct me to the right forum. I have a 65" Mitsubishi DLP 1080p tv, and I just bought a Denon DVD757 dvd player (1080p upconvert) and connected them with a HDMI monster cable. My problem is that I can't figure out from the manual or from trial and error how to get the best picture. I stuck in a standard disc (Pearl Harbor) to try it out. There's a button on the front of the player where you can select HDMI output anywhere from 480 up to 1080p, but no explanation of which one I should choose. With the Pearl Harbor dvd in the player the picture actually gets measurably worse each time you change the HDMI output upward from 480 up to 1080p. I'm sure this is all my fault and I just don't know what I'm doing, but as my moniker suggests I'm an older guy and find the manual incomprehensible. If one of you younger videophiles could offer a suggestion or two on how to use this wonderful technology I'd be very appreciative. I just want my movies to look good. Thanks!!!

stejhu

03-23-07, 04:11 PM

hmm thanks alot guys. seems like maybe 480p or 720p upconverting dvd players could possibly work better than 1080i upconverters for a 1080p display since to my understanding the 1080i output had been reinterlaced and will once again have to be deinterlaced by my display (1080p) as opposed to a 480p signal just being further upconverted to 1080p by my display. in the end it seems like a 1080p upconverter is the best bet, but at $230+, maybe I should take etp's advice and just wait on blue ray players to drop since they will upconvert to 1080p anyways. any thoughts? any 1080p upconverters that are less expensive without all the bells and whistles for calibration that the oppo offers? being a noob, i don't know how to mess with advanced calibration stuff anyways. thanks again, you've been very helpful.

ditch-digger

03-25-07, 10:00 AM

has anyone seen the new panasonic dvd player..??? its at best buy for $99.00 and it up converts to 1080p......anyone else seen any reviews..?

rjom

03-25-07, 11:56 AM

I too just saw that Panasonic 1080p upconvert advertised for $99 at BB. So much better than what I have done lately, purchasing and returning Helios 4000 paying for shipping (both ways); the 1080p did not upconvert on my Samsung LN-S4696 (signal not accepted). I have a Samsung R135 upconvert that perfectlymatched the Helios picture at 1080i.

After reading hours on these forums, I think I have come to the conclusion that my Samsung LN-S 4696 1080p takes the 480p signal, and does the upconverting/scaling to the native resolution of my set 1080p . If I purchased an upconvert 1080p DVD player, I am sensing that I would not really see that much difference, if any, from the Samsung R135 player as it is the TV that is really doing the upconverting. And that I would be wasting my money to continue to try 1080p upconverting players. I am using component cables, have HDMI, but the component looked slightly better IMO.

A person could (and does) spend hours in these forums trying to learn it all. Is my assessment correct, that I should not be so actively seeking the 1080p upconverting machines given the HDTV set that I have? Or should I run down to BB, set up this baby, and either keep or return??????

wmcclain

03-25-07, 12:39 PM

A person could (and does) spend hours in these forums trying to learn it all. Is my assessment correct, that I should not be so actively seeking the 1080p upconverting machines given the HDTV set that I have? Or should I run down to BB, set up this baby, and either keep or return??????

I think a reasonable consensus of opinion here is that there is no way to tell without trying it. Your display may or may not deinterlace and scale better than the player.

People have an urgent need to believe their displays do every function better than specialized devices, but it is often not true.

That said, a lot of the better/worse distinctions made here are by people who a really fanatical about their dvds.

-Bill

ditch-digger

03-25-07, 02:25 PM

koolmoj

03-26-07, 02:15 AM

I usually don't post as I find answers to my questions by digging through the MANY posts on this forum..but here is my question:

I just bought a Samsung HL-S5086W DLP (Amazon $1159 Shipped!) that replaced a Philips 30" inch CRT HDTV. Initially with the Philips I hooked up my old Sony (5yr old) non-progressive scan DVD player through component and it looked not to good. I also have a modded Xbox with XBMC that is progressive scan and is supposed to be a fairly decent upconverting DVD player as well that I then hooked up. Instantly I could see an improvement with DVD's at 480 P and even more at 1080i through the Xbox.

After integrating the Samsung DLP into my A/V setup I set Xbox to upconvert to 720P and the picture looked good. Even though the modded Xbox with XBMC is extremely functional I was getting frustrated with a few things

Finicky DVD drive
FF & Rewind Shaky at best
LOUD
Extreme de-interlacing issues with previews..none with the movie though..weird, I know!
Randomly shutdown at times (overheat)

I could go on...Because of these issues I have begun researching heavily about up-converting dvd players. After doing some more research I decided to hook up the old Sony through component to the Sammy DLP to see how it would upscale dvd material. As I said earlier the Sony is not progressive scan so it's sending a 480i signal through component to the Samsung DLP with Film Mode enabled. Lo & behold the picture was as good if not better than the modded Xbox upconverted image! From my understanding this is why I think it is:

"Film Mode" is a Samsung's term for 3:2 Pulldown, so no need for progressive scan.

The Sumsung scales the image to 720p, and very well from what I can tell.

I was looking at either purchasing one of the Oppo's or the Onky 404 model (refurb at Shop Onkyo is going for $84 right now) but am really on the fence if the money would be well spent. Do upscaling dvd players really make that much of a difference with newer hdtv's? I know with my older Philips the upconversion of the Xbox made a huge improvement in pq but I'm just not seeing it compared to the scaling done by the newer Samsung DLP. I'm not ready to pick a winner in the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray war yet but I do want to get the most out of my new tv and my current DVD collection. Any advice would be great, thanks!

Bobsled

03-27-07, 12:57 PM

Both Denon and Oppo have excellent reputations. I have been pleased with my Oppo 981 and think it is an easy choice for 1080p displays.

Well, that is much discussed here and opinions vary. On my gear, both 720p and 1080p look better than 1080i, but it's not night-and-day. Just a subtle improvement.

DVDs are recorded as 480i. Scaling requires a progressive signal. To get a 1080p signal a player must do:

480i -> 480p -> 1080p

To get a 1080i signal it must do:

480i -> 480p -> 1080p -> 1080i (and then the display does 1080i -> 1080p)

I can't stand the thought of that reinterlacing step, which is probably irrational of me.

-Bill

Bill,

Just curious, what resolution do you set your 981 to view SD DVDs? I think I use 720P on my Sony KDS-50A2000 and I'm not sure it's the ideal setting for me. Just wondering what others have done?

bigsnyder

03-27-07, 01:46 PM

1080p would be optimal for your Sony A2000. The Oppo 981 should do a fantastic
job at 1080p since it was specifically designed for that.

C Snyder

wmcclain

03-27-07, 02:00 PM

Bill,

Just curious, what resolution do you set your 981 to view SD DVDs? I think I use 720P on my Sony KDS-50A2000 and I'm not sure it's the ideal setting for me. Just wondering what others have done?

1080p. If your display is 1920x1080 and accepts 1080p, it's the best choice.

-Bill

Bobsled

03-27-07, 02:08 PM

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll look for the "reference DVD movies" thread that's floating around here somewhere for good reference movie sources.

moxie1617

03-27-07, 02:29 PM

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll look for the "reference DVD movies" thread that's floating around here somewhere for good reference movie sources.

I can save you some time, here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=372989

Bobsled

03-27-07, 03:46 PM

That's it. Thanks.

I'll have to see how many if any are on deepdiscountdvd's MGM blowout list.

DrPainMD

03-27-07, 03:54 PM

Theres a good article here:

http://www.audioholics.com/education/display-formats-technology/video-processing-in-dvd-players-receivers-and-displays

Bobsled

03-27-07, 04:16 PM

I can save you some time, here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=372989

Um, I just noticed, it's been almost a couple years since there's been a new entry to the list. I guess by today's standards, movies now are better PQ?

DrPainMD

03-27-07, 04:48 PM

Um, I just noticed, it's been almost a couple years since there's been a new entry to the list. I guess by today's standards, movies now are better PQ?

also looks like the thread is closed

NYY

03-27-07, 11:55 PM

well just got home, and set up the new panasonic dvd-s53. 1080p up converting dvd player for $99.00. well as you may or may not know i have went thru about 4 players since last week, i finally ended up with the denon dvd-557. before that i tried the samsung, lg, and sony. the panasonic is on par with the samsung, it looks better at 480p, its up converting to me looks terrible. it does not come with optical out, so if thats what you use don't even bother. overall i think it was slightly better than the samsung, and lg, but thats it. it goes back tomorrow. :)

overall i guess you really get what you pay for, and it was a fun little test. but its denon all the way. :cool:

You kill me DitchDigger :) , and I appreciate your feedback. I just spent the last 2 months switching out LCD's at Best Buy...I am on my 4th and I hope the last...If not, my wife :eek: may kill me. Anyway, I agree w/you on the try it and return. The Oppo 981 has great reviews on CNET, but the $70 premium plus shipping is hard to get over for me. I hope to move on a PS3 or XBOX elite at the end of this year when prices hopefully come down and we hopefully know which format will win.

Unlike the OPPO, the Denon only upconverts to 1080i, and I have a 1080p panel, so I am uncertain if I will receive the full benefit for the money. I intend on seeing how the panel upconverts a DVD on the PS2 first (yes I said PS2).

Any word or link on how the Denon 557 performed on the HQV tests?

moxie1617

03-28-07, 10:43 AM

Um, I just noticed, it's been almost a couple years since there's been a new entry to the list. I guess by today's standards, movies now are better PQ?

It may be just the opposite, see here --> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9791315&&#post9791315

ditch-digger

03-28-07, 06:03 PM

You kill me DitchDigger :) , and I appreciate your feedback. I just spent the last 2 months switching out LCD's at Best Buy...I am on my 4th and I hope the last...If not, my wife :eek: may kill me. Anyway, I agree w/you on the try it and return. The Oppo 981 has great reviews on CNET, but the $70 premium plus shipping is hard to get over for me. I hope to move on a PS3 or XBOX elite at the end of this year when prices hopefully come down and we hopefully know which format will win.

Unlike the OPPO, the Denon only upconverts to 1080i, and I have a 1080p panel, so I am uncertain if I will receive the full benefit for the money. I intend on seeing how the panel upconverts a DVD on the PS2 first (yes I said PS2).

Any word or link on how the Denon 557 performed on the HQV tests?

hahah i just tells it like it is. my wife wants to kill me when i shop. i even brought back a car after 4 days...just did not like it, its my money and i bust ass for it. as far as the denon reviews..?? i dont know but imho and after lots if test, its the best i have seen for under $200. i know its not 1080p for not for nothing, the 1080p's i have seen just stink and flash that number like it meens something....

good luck and just keep returning....

also not sure if i can do this but if you go on ebay, there is a seller called trading circuit. it is basically circuit city selling items. they also have trading circuit liquidation and trading circuit as is. my friend got the 557 for a great price..?

NYY

03-28-07, 07:21 PM

Cool, I'll check it out.

tkc9789

03-31-07, 12:06 PM

I recently purchased a Secptre 42" LCD from Costco. Everything's great except for DivX/AVI movies looked pretty bad. There're a lot of noise in darker scenes. My DVD player connects to the TV using component cables. Same movies look just fine on my old Sammy DLP. Wondering if this will get resolved by switching to a unconverting DVD player and use HDMI instead? :rolleyes:

A/Vspec

03-31-07, 12:57 PM

There would not happen to be a upconverting player that does 1080i 48Hz or 1080p 24Hz that also does the vertical stretch is there?

zrdb

03-31-07, 02:34 PM

If you're gonna put xvid/divx on a big screen you are going to see "noise"-especially in the dark areas-it's just the nature of the beast. Upscaleing will only make it look worse. What I do is run xvid/divx on a small crt hdtv (27")with a dvd player that has a soft picture (LDA-511)hacked to upscale through componet to 720P, it's still noticable-but not as much as your situation.

A/Vspec

03-31-07, 09:17 PM

I was really just looking for a player for my large SD-DVD collection to playback on my Sony Pearl with an anamorphic lense. They look good with a Denon DVD-1600 set at 480P and using the Sony to do the vertical stretch but I would like to take advantage of the Pearls ability to also take 24Hz or 48Hz and up it to a smooth 96Hz playback.

valoidr

04-01-07, 09:48 PM

wmcclain

04-02-07, 07:31 AM

NYY

04-02-07, 03:31 PM

Am also reading about varying results with upconverting 1080p DVD players[non HD] to a 1080p HDTV. I too am looking at buying a Samsung..... 4665. Most of us are waiting for the B-ray vs HD format issue to be resolved. Any one can suggest a wothy canidate for video/audio dvd player for the interim?

Waiting for the format wars to end, or at least for the PS3 and XBOX to display HD movies at 1080p for a reasonable price seems to be common for many.

I just bought the Samsung 4665 this weekend. The display is great.

My old DVD player is 480i (does have component), but you can change it to 480p in the set up menu, although on the last two LCD's I had, it seemed to wack out the colors in 480p. So as a stop gap for the next year, I have been on the hunt for a solid upscaling player that is easy on the pocket. I have heard great things about the Oppo, but would rather try it before shelling out the extra $69 plus shipping (?)

I went to CC this weekend and they were out of the Denon 557 units, but I picked up an open box 757 for the same price (remote and instructions still in the original seal).

With the 4665 it looked good. I haven't tried to play with the settings though to see if I can tweak it. Overall, I think after seeing the true HD and the blueray content in the stores, my expectations have been significantly raised.

Edit Update to my post: I tweaked the settings on the panel and the 757, popped in Star Wars 1 and the clarity and color were incredible.

BryanBoulier

04-04-07, 12:01 AM

I just received my Panasonic TH-42PX600u set. Although I did have some trepidation in ordering online, eveything seems to have turned out well. The set is terrific.

I also got a Panasonic DVD-S52, an upconverting DVD. Looks like I have a lot more choices than I am used to with a DVD player. What settings do you use?

The setup menu asks for the sampling frequency (48, 96 or 192). I could not tell from the TV set manual, what I should choose.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Bryan

RevRick

04-04-07, 01:03 AM

Hi, all -

From everything I've read here and elsewhere, whether or not an upconverting DVD player will help much depends on how good a job the TV itself does de-interlacing and scaling, and etc.

So, does anybody here have upconverter experience with the 720p Sony KDF50E2000?

If so, which would you recommend? The new Toshiba SD-5000 looks good price-wise, but there's probably not enough experience with it yet. What about the Oppos? or the new Panny 1080p converter?

Thanks,

Rick

jdhirsh

04-04-07, 12:42 PM

I have a similar question to the previous post but with the 1080p Pioneer FHD1 plasma. Does anyone have recommendations for an upconverting player that would replace my standard Sony DVP-NC665P DVD player? I haven't set up the Pioneer yet so I cannot comment on the output from my current player. But I am interested in knowing if getting a 1080p upconvering player, like the Oppo, would be a worthwhile investment.

Thanks.

strutter

04-04-07, 01:01 PM

not sure about the others but the oppo does have a 30 day money back return policy. if you dont like it send it back. i have the 981 on my sony 60XBR2 and though i do not consider myself an extremely critical viewer, (there are some defects people post pictures of on here that i just can not see unless directed to the exact spot), i believe the oppo processing to be slightly better than the sony tv. comparing to a denon progressive nonupconverting player. i see less defects in the picture quality with the oppo. and the oppo may be just slightly sharper but not much. oppo doesnt recommend the 981 to people with plasmas or DLP because of the macroblock enhancement that can occur with farouja processing. i see no enhancement of macroblocking on my LCOS set.

RevRick

04-05-07, 10:03 AM

So I went out and bought the Toshiba SD-5000 on sale and I must say, I am not impressed. I have a 720p KDF-50E2000, and after looking at a variety of dvds, it seems that at 480p, it looks slightly better than my garden-variety Sony progressive-scan (NS55?) but at 720p and 1080i it's definitely no better, and even worse on some dvds.

The interesting thing is that output from the Toshiba looks better at 480p than it does at 720p (or 1080i). I interpret that finding this way: The scaling (and possibly the de-interlacing) by my E2000 is better than by the Toshiba; when the Toshiba is outputting 720p, what I see on the screen is totally due to the Toshiba. I think what I'm seeing the slight improvement in PQ at 480p (over both the Sony progressive-scan and the Toshiba outputing 720p) is "HDMI-bounce", ie., due to the superiority of the HDMI over the component video connection that the NS55 is using. Does this sound like a reasonable analysis?

Anyway, I'm not thrilled with the Toshiba, and will return it (there are other problems, most notably that the HDMI cycle button doesn't seem to work).

Rick

valoidr

04-06-07, 10:39 PM

OU an Stimpy,

I have a better understanding of the dynamics of this subject matter. Thank you!

Lenore

04-11-07, 03:01 PM

I am setting up my Onkyo 674 and looking at the access codes for the remote controller ,and I noticed that there is nothing for the Oppo 970 HD.

I went on the Oppo cite and there is something there about a firmware update.
If anyone has tied it, can you "talk" me thru it, please?

I have never done anything like this. I have a computer that I burn CD's with, but it's software is Windows XP edition, and whatever burner HP put in there is what I have.

Thanks

wmcclain

04-11-07, 03:15 PM

hyimted

04-11-07, 11:21 PM

wmcclain

04-12-07, 07:11 AM

i'm sure this has probably already been asked, but here goes.

some friends and i were having a lively debate about upconverting players vs. a display's native resolution. their argument is that upconverting players serve no real purpose since all displays output at its native resolution.

honestly that sounds like a good argument ... but i just figure there's gotta be some kind of benefit to these upconverting players?

Opinions vary, but you should consider that not all devices perform deinterlacing and scaling functions equally well. People have an urgent need to believe that their displays do everything perfectly, but it is often not true. Moving certain tasks to specialized boxes sometimes makes sense.

This is extensively discussed in the sticky threads at the top of this forum.

Here is a site that tests the deinterlacing capabilities of DVD players: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi. You will see a wide range of capabilities. I don't know of a similar database for displays.

-Bill

valoidr

04-13-07, 08:03 PM

Opinions vary, but you should consider that not all devices perform deinterlacing and scaling functions equally well. People have an urgent need to believe that their displays do everything perfectly, but it is often not true. Moving certain tasks to specialized boxes sometimes makes sense.

This is extensively discussed in the sticky threads at the top of this forum.

Here is a site that tests the deinterlacing capabilities of DVD players: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi. You will see a wide range of capabilities. I don't know of a similar database for displays.

-Bill unfortunately this site has not been updated in quite some time.

wmcclain

04-14-07, 10:07 AM

unfortunately this site has not been updated in quite some time.

A batch of 2007 tests was posted just recently. Kris Deering says that many models are not submitted for testing, for some strange reason.

-Bill

strutter

04-14-07, 11:46 AM

Cnet review of the Toshiba HD-XA2 compared to the Oppo.

http://reviews.cnet.com/Toshiba_HD_XA2/4505-6463_7-32074339.html?tag=nl.e702

Edit: link wrong.

We also compared it to the Oppo DV-981HD on this same sequence, and the DV-981HD had a definitive edge. So, while the upconversion on the HD-XA2 is very good, we still felt that the DV-981HD was significantly better.

Edit again: added actual oppo comment.

kizzoli

04-15-07, 08:31 AM

I've been looking for replacement for my aging Denon DVD-1600, and tried a bunch of players in the past. So far no player convinced me, either too expensive, or picture quality too bad. For some reason I found the Oppo 971 picture too grainy both on projector and CRT TV when compared to the Denon 1600. I would keep the Denon any time, even if it only has analog outputs. I can do without digital, but cannot do without analog outs. For the same reason I sold my Pioneer 868AVi (Elite 59) too: it looked grainy, and did not have that 3D feeling the Denon 1600 provides. Even the Panasonic S97 looked a bit washed out, the Denon image was crisper and more solid.

In turn, a few players were better, but would not buy for that price: Marantz DV-7600, Denon 2930. I would have bought the Denon 1930, if it weren't for the horribly noisy DVD mechanism.

Recently I came over the new Marantz DV-4001, which is the same class player as the Denon 1930, but with much better mechanism, a bit faster, and different-then-Faroudja scaler. Picture quality is (surprisingly) very good, in the same league as the Denon 1600, and adds 1080i upscaling on HDMI.

I wanted to compare it to the new Marantz DV7001, just for curiosity, on how much difference it makes. Unfortunately I could "only" get the DV9600. I was not interested on the DV6001, as it has Faroudja scaling.

Now (as one could expect) that is an excellent player :). The only one in my memory which did not show, or showed negligible motion judder with slow pans (even the Toshiba HD players don't solve this); I heard the Denon 3930 is also capable of that. Now resolution does not matter that much for me as the lack of the motion judder. I don't know if there is any more reasonably priced player out there, which would show such acceptably fluid motion.

The big surprise was that the Marantz DV-4001 was within 98% of the picture quality of the flagship DV9600 (as seen on an Infocus IN76). On some scenes there was a little less flickering with the 9600, and a bit more defined image in low-resolution scans, but really not more than 2% better. Shadow detail, colors, sharpness, 3D feeling was just there... The only area where the DV9600 is clearly better, is motion fluidity on those difficult scenes. But in most of the movies and 99% of the time they just looked the same.

I seems the DV4001 is well worth its price, and I don't see any reason going higher in price if I can get this quality... and I'd save the money to buy a HD (multi)player, after they get mature enough.

I still wait until I can see the DV7001 as well (it is said it's based on the DV9600), and will report about that later.