Originally posted by revolverjgw

Koach- Just get the front grille off and look to the right. You don't have to turn the TV off, you'll want the screen on so you can gauge what you're doing. Those three knobs on the bottom of that box correspond to a CRT. From left to right, red-green-blue. All you have to is get a little screwdriver and turn them left and right. You can turn them from one extreme to the other to see what kind of effect you're having on the picture, it won't hurt anything.

(the knobs I'm talking about are clearly labelled r, g, and b in raised letters, and it says ''focus'' beside them. The top three are called ''screen'' and are never to be touched. I assume this is how it is on every H83/H84, focus on the bottom, but get a flashlight and take a look at it just in case)

Like I said, I used the service convergence grid to gauge how focused each CRT was. I turned off the blue and green CRT so I could get just the red on there, then I twisted the R knob to get it as sharp as possible. Then turned off the blue and red CRTs and did the green, etc. Easy as pie.

Mechanical focus is when you physically get at the CRTs themselves, behind the screen. You loosten a wingnut and then fiddle around to get the lens tight/loose or something. Don't quote me on this, I haven't done it! Going to do some research first, I DO plan on doing a mechanical focus.

There's like no risk in doing this electrostatic focus, all you have to keep in mind is- NEVER touch the top three knobs on that box, terrible horrible tragic things could happen.

Results will probably vary. My focus was pretty off, this has made a difference. I dunno if it's placebo or what, but the Xbox never looked crisper. And the convergence grid looks much sexier.

Stupid question. Using the service grid I'm assuming you just eyeballed the whole process?

So you mean popup off the front speaker cover? I'm not at home so I can't look, but how do I do that exactly?

Also, I've read that you have to leave the blue somewhat out of focus for your grays to be right. how did you set your blue?

Originally posted by kbgl
Anyone take pictures while they were at it? I want to do an E &M focus soon, and it would help to have some pictures of the inside of the set. http://albanyhdtv.homestead.com/files/eliab2.jpg http://albanyhdtv.homestead.com/files/eliab3.jpg

''Stupid question. Using the service grid I'm assuming you just eyeballed the whole process?''

Yeah. I'm sure there's a better way, a template or something, but I just used the grid. It's pretty easy to tell what is and isn't out of focus in the grid. I just got it as sharp as I could.

And by 'grille', I mean the black cloth covering with the Toshiba logo. That thing just snaps off easy. And underneath it, there's another hard black cover with 4 screws in it. Just get the screws out and you'll have access to the innards and the ''focus box''.

Regarding the blue... well, I just got it as sharp as possible (naturally looks a bit soft), didn't appear have an effect on my greyscale or anything. I think you have to be a bit more careful with the blue's focus when you do a mechanical focus, though.

Well that was easy.

For the 51H84 owners. There is a pressboard cover under the grill with about 6 long screws and 3 short screws at the top (don't forget the three top screws)

The knobs on my set were tilted sideways so be careful on which you adjust. But they're clearly labeled. I also just used the service grid.

Albany,

Say Hi to Eliab for me next time you see him again. :D


Tim

hi, im looking at the 46h84 and was wondering if anyone else has it and how it is? I am mainly getting a bigger TV for videogaming. Anyone know how that is on this tv? Are there any common problems with it?

also, on the picture ive seen of one. (wont let me insert pic yet)
is that the speakers below the tv? that huge area? Cuz I was wondering if it requires a stand or not.

THanks
-Z

I did an electrical focus, but my settings were already perfect before I went in there. Moving any knob just a hair in either direction made the grid blurrier. So I guess I just got a good factory worker that put mine together.

So who has a good "how-to" on a mechanical focus?

So after reading this thread, I tried to do an electro focus on my 46h84. I removed the grille, but there's still the grey plastic covering the front that has about 10 screws in it (some phillips, some hex) Do I have to remove this as well? There doesn't seem to be any small cover that looks like any of the closeups here. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

Yes the plastic grill needs to be removed. You will then have a view like revolver's pic. Remember not to touch the adjustment trimpots, only touch the focus trimpots. I'm speaking from (a bad) experience.

Yes you can remove the panel without it being evident. Just don't chew up the screws and clean up any sawdust.

I used the dot and grid pattern at 100 ire on Avia for my e focus so I cannot answer your other question.

I went and looked again and played with the adjustement in the store. Looked to me it was about the best set Best Buy has right now.

Two questions:

What;s the difference in the 83 and 84 models and how does it handle 720p?

Two questions:

What;s the difference in the 83 and 84 models and how does it handle 720p? [/B]

The 83 is the 2003 model (hence the "3") and the 84 is the 2004 model (hence the "4')

720p is upconverted to 1080i

So nobody ever responded to my question on how to calibrate your system using DVE, if you are connected via a DVI > HDMI cable?

Like i said according to DVE, if you do your TV watching via this connection the DVE color/tint wont work, so how should i go about doing it?

Originally posted by LRend1215
So nobody ever responded to my question on how to calibrate your system using DVE, if you are connected via a DVI > HDMI cable?

Like i said according to DVE, if you do your TV watching via this connection the DVE color/tint wont work, so how should i go about doing it?

I'm no expert for sure, but why on earth would color and tint controls be any different with a DVI connection? I used the DVE disc with component cables before I bought my DVI HDMI cable, and I can still change settings with the DVI/HDMI cable, so what is the problem?

Its not that i cant change it, i can, just according to the DVE dvd, it states that if your main viewing method (for me its cable) is connected via DVI > HDMI cable, that the tint and color would not be correctly adjusted...

So would the best method be to connect my cable via component to my tv, run the calibration with that connection, and then just switch out the connections from component cables to my DVI>HDMI cable and just watch it on those picture settings?

I'm still confused, but here's what I would do. I would just adjust the set using a DVD player and establish a "baseline" setting. If the cable box and DVD player somehow appear to have different color or brightness, then I would just tweak settings a little for each input by eye. You can save preferences for each input, and they do not need to be the same. I think these setup discs are a good tool, but the exact adjustment of the set is not all that critical. Keep in mind that most of the programs you watch are far from perfect, and may benefit from a little tweaking of the settings anyway.

Okay, thanks for your input.....:D

In response to those asking about mechanical focus:

I have a 65H84, so not sure if it's universal, but here it is.
Remove the big black "TOSHIBA" grill. Remove the screws holding the mechanical cover. (on the 65" it's particle board) Directly under the screen you can see into the set. Get really close so you can see each individual gun. On each of the round black plastic hoods is a wingnut. On my set you can reach your fingers in and loosen the wingnuts so you can slide them, thus changing the focus of the lens. Make sure you're only looking at the green grid to focus green, blue to focus blue, etc.

I think it's best to perform trimpot focus adjustments first, then tweak the mechanical. Anyone else have an opinion about this?

Originally posted by atye
In response to those asking about mechanical focus:

I have a 65H84, so not sure if it's universal, but here it is.
Remove the big black "TOSHIBA" grill. Remove the screws holding the mechanical cover. (on the 65" it's particle board) Directly under the screen you can see into the set. Get really close so you can see each individual gun. On each of the round black plastic hoods is a wingnut. On my set you can reach your fingers in and loosen the wingnuts so you can slide them, thus changing the focus of the lens. Make sure you're only looking at the green grid to focus green, blue to focus blue, etc.

I think it's best to perform trimpot focus adjustments first, then tweak the mechanical. Anyone else have an opinion about this?

Can you take a picture of what we are supposed to loosen and slide? Thanks.

Did a mechanical focus help you much? We you able to get it focus more? My electrical focus was literally perfect, I couldn't get it any sharper. I don't want to waste my time with this if that is going to be the case again.

One good tip I've used when doing a focus is to first drastically increase your HIT setting to 71H or so before doing the focus. By doing this, you'll be able to better see the individual scanlines while doing the focus. It really helps. Leave it that way for both the E focus and the M focus. Usually do the E focus first, then do the M focus.

When you're all done, bring the HIT setting back down to it's original value. (You wrote it down before you started, right?;) )

Follow the focus with a service menu convergence, and you're all set.


Tim

Originally posted by OvalNut
One good tip I've used when doing a focus is to first drastically increase your HIT setting to 71H or so before doing the focus. By doing this, you'll be able to better see the individual scanlines while doing the focus. It really helps. Leave it that way for both the E focus and the M focus. Usually do the E focus first, then do the M focus.

When you're all done, bring the HIT setting back down to it's original value. (You wrote it down before you started, right?;) )

Follow the focus with a service menu convergence, and you're all set.


Tim

What is HIT exactly?

HIT is one of the service menu parameters. It controls the height of the image.

Tim

Hey Michael TLV :)

Everybody's doing their electrical focus with the on screen convergence grid. Back when we would take off the screen and look directly into each CRT (with the grid up) and focus this way. Then after we would do the mechanical focus with the screen on using the convergence grid once more.

Any drawbacks on doing the electrical with the screen on?

Hi Folks, I am looking, on the internet at a Toshiba 57H84. It says it has an anti-glare screen. As I search here, I see the conversation about removing and restacking screens. What is the assessment of the glare on this model? My TV room has a glare problem and I am trying to find a CRT RPTV, in this price range and size, that does not have the protective screen or has a real anti-glare screen. Thanks, Joe

The protective screen is very shiny.

Hi everyone, I hope I am posting in the right place. I am the new owner of a Toshiba 57hx94 and so far I am not to happy with what I am seeing. I was hoping that someone might be apply to shed some light on what I am seeing. Since I took delivery on this tv I noticed that the picture was just not as sharp as HD should be. The picture is clear in HD but it seems to be lacking that extra sharpness? that would make the picture that much clearer. The first service call was because of the picture and a apparrent red push in the picture

Hi, Back again I hit the wrong button. To finish the tech went into the service mode and found the red cut set at 97 and brought it down. He than did a convergence and said that was all he could do. The second call the tech merely did another convergence and said the same thing. What I see during convergence is the blue seems to be blooming even though it is set at 80H in the service mode. It also seems that the guns are not focusing as well at the screen edges. Have had the tv for about 3 months so I think the guns should be settled down by know. Any thoghts, comments, suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

Airwrench,

Doing an E & M focus certainly wouldn't hurt, and might likely be just the thing you need.

See the past few pages of this thread for details on focusing, then post back with questions. Happy to help.

Tim

I just did a mechanical focus last night. Just like with my electrical focus, I couldn't get it any better than it already was. My mechanical and electrical were literally perfect. I must have had a good factory worker the day mine was made.

Originally posted by mgilna
So after reading this thread, I tried to do an electro focus on my 46h84. I removed the grille, but there's still the grey plastic covering the front that has about 10 screws in it (some phillips, some hex) Do I have to remove this as well? There doesn't seem to be any small cover that looks like any of the closeups here. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

How hard did you have to pull on the grill? I pulled on mine almost hard enough to move the TV, and it doesnt come off! It will spring out about half an inch, but not pop loose. I'm afraid I'm going to break it!

I had to pull mine pretty hard and it makes a loud POP!

My 51H84 has two clips at the bottom and three at the top.

Originally posted by kantonburg
I had to pull mine pretty hard and it makes a loud POP!

My 51H84 has two clips at the bottom and three at the top.

Any chance of breaking it?

Originally posted by Airwrench
Hi, Back again I hit the wrong button. To finish the tech went into the service mode and found the red cut set at 97 and brought it down. He than did a convergence and said that was all he could do. The second call the tech merely did another convergence and said the same thing. What I see during convergence is the blue seems to be blooming even though it is set at 80H in the service mode. It also seems that the guns are not focusing as well at the screen edges. Have had the tv for about 3 months so I think the guns should be settled down by know. Any thoghts, comments, suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

I had to do allot of movment with the cuts and drives in the service menu of my 57HX93 using colorfacts though.

I think the factory had all the cuts at 80H. It's tuff to eyeball a better grayscle but you could give it a try. Write down all the original cuts and drives and give it a try.

Bring up the Pluge pattern with Avia. It's in Grayscale & levels / Black & white Levels, the one down from the Needle pulse steps pattern. It shows large gray boxes with moving black bars on the left. Hey if you don't have Avia or DVE you can use the gray steps in the THX optimizers brightness pattern.

Delete color tints out of the grays.

Lighter grays to white use the Drives

Darker grays use the Cuts

First view the graysteps of pluge and toggle your color temp to see which is best. Since you were seeing red, maybe Middle color temp would be better.

After that fine tune with the cuts & drives.

If you see red in the lighter grays pull back the red drive until the red is out of gray. If you lower say eight clicks stop and make it four and in turn increase green and blue by four, for balance.

Work the lower end of the grayscale the same way. Find the number amount to delete the color then cut it back to half of that and increase the opposite colors by the similar half amount.

Thanks ovalnut and guitarman for the input. The red issue seems to be resolved at this point. I have been in the service mode and have mapped all of the parameters for reference. I have so far set the VSM down to 00 and have reduced the global brightness and contrast settings. This all seem to help but the two issues I still have are that during convergence the blue seems to be blooming/bleeding and the red is sharp and defined. I dont know if this is normal. The other issue is the PQ seems to be lacking something. I'll try and explain. I receive HD via roof antenna and shows like CSI have parts that reaffirm my choice of HD and yet even with that there seems to be something lacking in the PQ. But most other programing that is HD just seems to be lacking PQ all together. I do have the avia disc and have done some adjustments that you have mentioned. But I keep running short on finding time to do the adjusting. Thanks again.

Originally posted by Airwrench
This all seem to help but the two issues I still have are that during convergence the blue seems to be blooming/bleeding and the red is sharp and defined. I dont know if this is normal.
Yes, it's normal. Because our eyes are less sensitive to blue, CRTs often defocus blue beams slightly to compensate (effectively making blues stronger).
The other issue is the PQ seems to be lacking something. I'll try and explain. I receive HD via roof antenna and shows like CSI have parts that reaffirm my choice of HD and yet even with that there seems to be something lacking in the PQ.
There are wide variations in HD PQ, and a fair amount of 1080i/720p that's actually upconverted 480i. Guides such as hdtvgalaxy.com--and experience--help pin down which ones are true HD. Live OTA HD shows usually offer the best HD fidelity. True HD is, with rare exceptions, 16:9, but some upconverted 480i shows are 16:9 (PBS) and sometimes tough to judge. Studying the sharpness of vegetation or distant rocks, etc. in images helps determine whether capture was HD or SD originally. HD images, without a director's selective focusing, often show crisp detail throughout, while upconverted 1080i has blurrier details. -- John

I would like to start off by saying thanks to every knowledgable person who posts to this forum,I really dont know what i would do without this forum....

Today I decided to do an Electro Focus on my 46H84, and i must admit i was a little weary, about it, But since i have extended warranty, i figured why not? if i F something up, i will just make use of the warranty...

And to everybody thats afraid of trying this in fear of messing up, Its really not that hard whats so ever. I started off by turning my HIT up 71H as mentioned in this thread, I went ahead and adjusted all 3 Knobs, even though i read that i shouldnt really mess with blue. But when i got into it, i noticed that my Blue was the most off of the 3 so i am glad i messed with it...after adjusting the focus and then running a convergence through the service menu, I must say WOW!!!! I always felt that my HD was lacking a little UMPFFF! and after the slight adjustments via the Electrofoucs, i was just suprised how HUGE of a difference it made for my TV... I totally LOVE this TV Now!!!! and even my brother was like "whoa" what the heck did you do, because the tv looks alot sharper...

I am super satisfied with the setting my TV has now after doing all the things people in this thread recommended, and i just hope they hold, but if they dont, i know where to come for advice...

So to anybody who is weary of doing anything to their tv in fear of messing it up, all i have to say, is if i can do it, then anybody can!!! Just make sure to read the posts properly, be attentive as to what you do, be patient, and if unsure? use commen sense...

To top it off, yesteday i upgraded my RCA RT2250 Home Theater System, to the RCA RT2600, and am using Cable, DVD, and XBoX with full dolby digital... and i must say I am in HEAVEN !!!!

Thanks Again Everybody!!!

PS... Will be Posting Some pics of my little Heaven ( Entertainment Room) Tomorrow to my gallery so be sure to take a look and tell me what you all think...

Originally posted by LRend1215


PS... Will be Posting Some pics of my little Heaven ( Entertainment Room) Tomorrow to my gallery so be sure to take a look and tell me what you all think...

Please... Please.. Put a picture showing the grill that is removed to get to the adjustments. I'm convinced I'm going to break the darn thing trying to get it off.

How hard was it to get yours off?

well i had my grilloff earlier, so i doubt i will be taking it off again ( unless i need to refocus it ) sorry......

like i said i have a 46H84, so i can only speak for that model...

they way i took of the grille is i started off with the corners, pulling them hard, but not yanking at it. When each clips unclips from where is being held, you will hear a LOUD POP, trust me you havent broken it when you hear that...My grille made a crazy pop at first, and i was sure i had broken the thing, but i hadn't. From the way the clips look, as long as you pull the grill straight out, they are going to be very hard to break...

next you will see two screws in the center with a whole bunch of hexagon looking screws around the gray piece, i believe it was 4 on the left and four on the right. The 2 screws in the middle just hold the backing of the center clips so you dont have to unscrew them. Just take the hexagonal screws off and the gray piece that surrounds the grille just come off.

Of course in the center you will see the three colored lenses, off to the left you will see the little black box, with the focus knobs.... from rite there you know what to do... lol

Well hope my response was helpful...

Originally posted by LRend1215
well i had my grilloff earlier, so i doubt i will be taking it off again ( unless i need to refocus it ) sorry......

like i said i have a 46H84, so i can only speak for that model...

they way i took of the grille is i started off with the corners, pulling them hard, but not yanking at it. When each clips unclips from where is being held, you will hear a LOUD POP, trust me you havent broken it when you hear that...My grille made a crazy pop at first, and i was sure i had broken the thing, but i hadn't. From the way the clips look, as long as you pull the grill straight out, they are going to be very hard to break...

My set is a 46H84 as well. I'm going to go ahead and pry the thing off.

I meant to say the box with the focus knobs, is to the right, you will see it though...

Originally posted by LRend1215
I meant to say the box with the focus knobs, is to the right, you will see it though...

Well it didn't break!!! I adjusted all 3 colors just a hair. When I adjusted the convergence afterwords, it was easier to see what needed to be done. The picture seems to be a bit sharper now.

Whew, you guys are really getting into the focus adjustments, so not to be left out i did one as well. I took pics of just the grill off, then the silver plastic behind the grill, then one of the set with grill and plastic off and a close up of the focus box. It is just as has been described here earlier, thanks to all who posted there experiences by the way. After removing the grill(you do have to pull hard to get that sucker off, but it didn't break)remove the 8 allen head screws, 4 on each side , 2 above and 2 below the speakers, and that will allow you to remove the silver fascia behind the grill.
The focus knobs are labeled R,G,B and the word focus. They are the bottom 3 knobs and are labeled upside down. In fact the box is installed upside down as you can see in the pictures. Red and Green were off a smidge. The blue gun was as good as it could be before i tried getting it a little sharper. Only a manual focus would get it better, maybe some day. Anyway, after you're done adjusting, put the silver piece back on and snap the grill back on and you're done. By the way, the grill goes back on much easier than it comes off so no worries there. In the pics there is what appears to be some cobwebs around the electronics. They are actually hot glue or silicone threads? leftover from manufacturing i guess. I left them intact as they were not interfering with anything and make the set look untouched in case of a warranty issue. As i have stated many times before, i suck with computers so i'm putting these pics in my gallery as i do not know how to attach them to a posting(feel free to PM me on directions of how to do it). As always, be sure not to touch anything else in the set for fear of electrical shock and screwing up your set and don't touch the other(top) 3 knobs. Hit the gallery tab at the top of this post to see pics.

Okay, i posted up some quick pix of my system ( sorry for the somewhat crappy images, stupid digital camera sucked!)

>Like I said, I used the service convergence grid to gauge how focused >each CRT was. I turned off the blue and green CRT so I could get just the >red on there, then I twisted the R knob to get it as sharp as possible. >Then turned off the blue and red CRTs and did the green, etc. Easy as pie.

I just tried the same thing (adjusting focus) with my 57H84. Easy to do but how the heck do you turn off the CRTs? I'd like to adjust the green gun but can't seem to do that as I can only adjust blue/red from the 56 point convergence.

I just tried the same thing (adjusting focus) with my 57H84. Easy to do but how the heck do you turn off the CRTs? I'd like to adjust the green gun but can't seem to do that as I can only adjust blue/red from the 56 point convergence.

You need to be in the service menu. The buttons "0" "100" and "ENT" turn on/off the various CRT's.

Here's a good guide:

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/brandspecific/toshiba/servicemenu/convergence/convergence_remotebuttons.html

Pittdog1

Did you decide on a subwoofer design yet?

Kinda sorta. Where i have it placed limils the size it can be. I currently use an older AudioSource SW-5. It's a 12" down firing design. I've done all the mods on it that i could find and it sounds pretty good. I did consider just replacing the Woofer and using the same box. The Dayton 12"DVC is about the best Sub for the money i can find to work in a smaller enclosure. But, I wouldn't mind building my own. When i get it figured out and get the time i'll let you know.
Koach's instructions are correct for turning on and off the guns and that is how i did mine as well with the SM convergence grid.

Convergence for HD vs SD

I was reading articles on the keohi site about some other Toshiba models. It seems that having the set in FULL mode with a 1080i signal while doing convergence has a different effect than if in another mode or with a 480P signal.



( 4/6/05 ...... H83 / H84 sets do not need to be done this way!)

I have a 57HX93 and just did one convergence. Full from DVD and each signal has the correct convergence after the adjusment. My early 65H80 I would have to do each signal. I think that's what you were reading about. Things are easier now.

I am getting a professional ISF calibration done next month on my 57H83. There is an extra charge for HDTV calibration via component and DVI/HDMI. Is this step not necessary for my set?

Interesting,

I wasn't aware convergence was (necessary?) for each mode. Or is it?

Originally posted by kantonburg
Interesting,

I wasn't aware convergence was (necessary?) for each mode. Or is it?

I was wrong! It's not!

I bought my first RPTV last week, the 51h84 - I notice a red glow on either side of the screen (when dark - any input). I had the repair guys in this morning, and in the bright, sunny living room they could not see the problem, so they simply adjusted the convergence and calibration, said the TV was working fine; and left. They said if there was a problem with the red gun overpowering the others, they would have noticed it when the colour was turned all the way down - but the picture is perfect grey, like it should be (greyscale OK?).
Anyway, like I explained to them, the picture looks great; day or night - it's just when you're watching something with a dark picture (eg. night-time scene in a movie), you can definitely notice the red on the sides. The only way to get rid of it is to decrease the brightness below 40 - but then the picture is too dark overall.
A friend said he had the same problem with his 57h84, BB exchanged 3 sets with him (the same problem on all) until he gave up on the model and went for a Sony instead.
I will go to BB today and consider my options, I am not looking forward to the hassle of trading my TV for another with the same (characteristic?) that seems to be inherent on this model.
I guess I'm looking for opinions on this matter. Is this a normal condition for RPTV's? How "black" is a black screen suppose to be on RPTV's?

I think the lens stripping tweak will elimante the red glow if it bothers you. The info on how to is at Keohi.

Re the convergence per signal. If I remember right converging other signals was eliminated with the newer sets, when the touch focus thing first appeared.

Getting a TV ISF'ed is a great idea. If you're going to view HDTV at it's best might as well get that signal done also. Make sure he's doing a full grayscale tunup.

I'd guess the standard grayscale is for DVD progressive which is a good start.

You'll hv to decide on how perfect you want.

480i SDTV
S-video
HDTV

Each one will have it's additional cost, so it can add up. Me I'd pick HDTV/DVD-prgressive & 480i Standard TV.

Following up on service menu grayscale tuning.

I did a grayscale tune on my 57HX93 for progressive DVD and I'm not sure if the cuts & drives will be available for different signals like HDTV or 480i TV haven't got around to that yet.

Anyone know if different service cuts and drives pop up for each signal level?

Frank123. I know there's alot to read on this particular thread, but many people with the H84's have had the same problem as you. A few pages back(not sure how many, but less than 10 i'd say) is info on how to correct the red issue you are seeing.

Also, it isn't nescasary to do more than one convergence on these sets(H83/93 or H84/94) It only applies to older sets. Most of the info @ keohi is for older sets but is still a great resource for the general knowledge it contains and much of it still applies. If you mess up the convergence in one stretch mode, then it should be messed up in all other stretch modes and full and natural.

Originally posted by guitarman
I think the lens stripping tweak will elimante the red glow if it bothers you. The info on how to is at Keohi.


I looked but couldn't find this. Have a link to it?

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/experttips/michaeltlv/lenstriping.html

The stripping looks simple but I don't like the caution idea of the tape coming loose and sticking to the lens.

Maybe a rubberband around the circumfrence covering the tape ends as an added precaution.

What I got from Michael is it would eliminate the red glow. But not sure if this covers what you're seeing on both sides of the image.

Pittdog1

I ran a quick test and verified that you are correct about only needing to do one convergence. I deleted or edited most of my related posts.

Anyone know if different service cuts and drives pop up for each signal level?
Tom,

There are not separate specific cuts and drives for each signal scan rate. Rather, there are offset parameters for each scan rate. Generally accepted is to use 480p as the standard and offset the others from that. Also, the DVI input has it's own set of additional offsets. The offset parameters are in the numeric service menu codes toward the bottom of the service menu.

Tim

Originally posted by Frank123
I bought my first RPTV last week, the 51h84 - I notice a red glow on either side of the screen (when dark - any input). I had the repair guys in this morning, and in the bright, sunny living room they could not see the problem, so they simply adjusted the convergence and calibration, said the TV was working fine; and left. They said if there was a problem with the red gun overpowering the others, they would have noticed it when the colour was turned all the way down - but the picture is perfect grey, like it should be (greyscale OK?).
Anyway, like I explained to them, the picture looks great; day or night - it's just when you're watching something with a dark picture (eg. night-time scene in a movie), you can definitely notice the red on the sides. The only way to get rid of it is to decrease the brightness below 40 - but then the picture is too dark overall.
A friend said he had the same problem with his 57h84, BB exchanged 3 sets with him (the same problem on all) until he gave up on the model and went for a Sony instead.
I will go to BB today and consider my options, I am not looking forward to the hassle of trading my TV for another with the same (characteristic?) that seems to be inherent on this model.
I guess I'm looking for opinions on this matter. Is this a normal condition for RPTV's? How "black" is a black screen suppose to be on RPTV's?

Try searching this thread for RCUT and try that fix before returning your set.

Cuts and drives being universal, I though thats the way is was. To grayscale a 480i signal I would need RGB-contrast & RGB-brightness.

I'll take a look at the DVI offsets. I'll hook up my Bravo or Toshiba to DVI and see if I can grayscale it.

One good thing about the DLP projectors I have is the seperate RGB adjusments for each signal.

Originally posted by LRend1215
So nobody ever responded to my question on how to calibrate your system using DVE, if you are connected via a DVI > HDMI cable?

Like i said according to DVE, if you do your TV watching via this connection the DVE color/tint wont work, so how should i go about doing it?

LRend1215

Take a look at Ovalnut's post above. This may have something to do with what you were asking last week.

Originally posted by OvalNut
Tom,

Also, the DVI input has it's own set of additional offsets. The offset parameters are in the numeric service menu codes toward the bottom of the service menu.

Tim

How do I tell which ones to adjust?

It's going to be a hunt and peck to figure them out.

Most likely if there's six sets of numbers in a row the top three will be RGB-contrast/ bottom three RGB-brightness.

The way to to it by eye is to view a graysteps pattern, use the contrast to delete color out of light grays, use brightness to delete color out of dark gray.

Any pattern like this -
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/inhd1eye.jpg

Originally posted by koach
I just did a mechanical focus last night. Just like with my electrical focus, I couldn't get it any better than it already was. My mechanical and electrical were literally perfect. I must have had a good factory worker the day mine was made.

I'm still looking for the wing nut and trying to figure out what to turn. Is it actually behind the screen, or is it in plain sight? Does anyone have a picture or sketch that will help me do this?

Originally posted by kbgl
I'm still looking for the wing nut and trying to figure out what to turn. Is it actually behind the screen, or is it in plain sight? Does anyone have a picture or sketch that will help me do this?

It's behind the screen, it took me a minute to find it too. I was looking for it in plain sight.

It's right on the top of the CRT itself, right below the opening that has the light coming out of it. on the 65H84, there is a small space gap below the silver edge around the screen. reach your hand in there, and find the wingnut on the crt.

See the attachment I have added to this message. It is a picture of an open Toshiba 57HX93 with the front screen removed. You can see the wingnuts on the side of each lens barrel atop the individual CRT's. The red arrows are pointing to the wingnuts.

This is typical of the lens adjustment setup used by most CRT RPTV's.


Tim

Originally posted by OvalNut
See the attachment I have added to this message. It is a picture of an open Toshiba 57HX93 with the front screen removed. You can see the wingnuts on the side of each lens barrel atop the individual CRT's. The red arrows are pointing to the wing nuts.

This is typical of the lens adjustment setup used by most CRT RPTV's.


Tim

Thanks for the picture!!!

I thought the wingnuts were accessible without removing the screen. My set is a 46". My hands are large, and I don't feel too comfortable reaching into an area that I can't see. Is there anything in the area of the wingnuts that could shock me? How do you turn or make adjustments after the wingnut is loosened?

Hey Everyone:

Great Forum:

thanks to all who participate
have been getting loads of info.

What's up?
We've had the Toshiba 57h81 for 2.5 years.
It blew up. How? I don't know. The service tech just said it wasn't worth fixing. Transient power something. No other components were damaged.
No storms or anything.
Had the service contract from BB so got a replacement tv.
Initially - purchased the 57h94 with the built-in HD tuner.
but seeing as how most services require you to have their box to get HDtv doesn't seem to make sense to spend the extra $400.
So after 1 week of that tv - got the 57h84.
mfg date of Feb 2005.
just delivered today.

I've been reading about making convergence adjustments and all.
on the 94 I could adjust everything.
this tv Does NOT have CableClear DNR.
and I can't seem to be able to adjust the Picture settings
contrast brightness sharpness.
I can change the mode from Sports, standard, movie and pref.
Also, can't bring up a Convergence screen which is talked about in the user manual.
can't adjust display mode (only 1080i); the 94 could change to 540p
AND - can't change Audio Settings, Bass and Treble, or balance
ALSO, I can't find the setting for Warm, Medium, or Cool


Surprisingly (or not) the user manual says little about making any changes to these settings.
It just says to use the up, down, right, left arrows.

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Well, it's just me.
I didn't figure that the remote would partially work.
I can move the arrow keys but I have to manually press the MENU key on the set to access the Picture settings screen and the Audio screen.

Can't get the Convergence screen to come on
Have gotten the "S" on the screen for service menu
but have only seen the RCUT with the value 8EH
need to adjust because the picture still seems overly red.

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Thanks very much

Thanks for the help! Found the "red glow" issue on page 20 of this thread...I adjusted my RCUT 8 pts from 94 to 86 - seems to have worked, I no longer see the red on the sides of the screen! I'm just really happy I don't have to trade in this TV; I'm quite impressed with it overall.

I am going to be using the cable box from the cable company. is there any reason for geting the 94 over the 84 when i will not be using the cablecard.

I finally got my AVAIA disc last night and did a basic adjustment. I'm a little unclear on how to set the white level. My bars at the top don't bow, and my white doesn't really bloom. Any other tips on how to set this level?

Also, according to the AVIA disc, my sharpness should be around 0. I tried watching TV like that, and it was so blurry. I need it to be around 40 or 50 for a decent picture. Anyone else notice this?

I thought the wingnuts were accessible without removing the screen. My set is a 46". My hands are large, and I don't feel too comfortable reaching into an area that I can't see. Is there anything in the area of the wingnuts that could shock me? How do you turn or make adjustments after the wingnut is loosened?
Generally, no, the high voltage wiring is down below the top of the CRT's and toward the back of the set. That said, if you are unsure or uneasy then don't do it.

The screen sits on a set of J hooks along the back of the sides of the bezel. As an alternative to reaching up into the TV to get to the wingnuts, you can also remove the screen and set it on the next higher set of J hooks while you do the mechanical focus. This will allow you to reach directly in from the from of the set in the space under the raised screen.

Work on one lens assembly at a time. Once the wingnut is loosened, you just rotate the barrel much as you would rotate the lens of a camera. Once the correct focus is achieved, just retighten the wingnut to secure the new position. Do not overtighten.


Tim

I've looked through this thread to see if anyone has this problem, but it doesn't look like it. Unless it's called something else and I just missed it.

Anyway, I've had the 51H84C for only 3 months and I notice very faint grey-ish lines (vertical) at the sides of the screen, about 4 or 5 inches in from the side (one line on each side of the tv). At first I thought this could be early burn-in, but I don't watch any 4:3 programming without zooming it to fill the screen, and even if I did watch 4:3 images, the lines don't match up with the edge of the 4:3 viewing area. I can't really imagine what this might be from.

It's only noticable when the screen is blank, or on very, very dark images.

Does anyone know what this might be?

Also, I used to have the red-push problem until I made the RCUT changes indicated in this thread. Lately I've notice the red-push coming back. Do the setup menu settings change back to default if the television is unplugged for any length of time? I recently had to unplug the unit while rewiring my surround sound system and wonder if maybe I need to go back in and change the RCUT again. Would this setting go back to default in this case?

Thanks for any help.

Wap

Originally posted by OvalNut


The screen sits on a set of J hooks along the back of the sides of the bezel. As an alternative to reaching up into the TV to get to the wingnuts, you can also remove the screen and set it on the next higher set of J hooks while you do the mechanical focus.

My set has a silver trim around the screen. Is this what you are calling the bezel? I saw a couple screws at the bottom that are normally covered by the speaker grill. If I remove these screws, do I lift up the screen, (or bezel), and then pull it away from the set? Are all the lenses still connected to this silver piece, or to each other? Any more pictures you can share?

Yes, the silver trim is what I am referring to as the bezel. Specific steps for screen removal (which screws, etc...) vary slightly by model #. Once the screws and possibly the front control panel are out of the way, you just need to unplug the quick disconnect on the touchfocus wiring harness. Then lift the bezel and screen straight up and pull straight out as one piece.

Perhaps someone with your model can chime in. Which one do you have?


Tim

My set is a 46H84.

Originally posted by koach
I finally got my AVAIA disc last night and did a basic adjustment. I'm a little unclear on how to set the white level. My bars at the top don't bow, and my white doesn't really bloom. Any other tips on how to set this level?

Also, according to the AVIA disc, my sharpness should be around 0. I tried watching TV like that, and it was so blurry. I need it to be around 40 or 50 for a decent picture. Anyone else notice this?

Try contrast around 45
Sharpness around 30

Contrast at 45 is where it needed to be with my TV to produce 25ftl with the 100IRE pattern using an analyzer.

Sharpness I like to look more at how Sharp the word Sharpness looks while also tying to lower the ghost line out of the center line. Usually 30 to 40 will be good.

" Anyway, I've had the 51H84C for only 3 months and I notice very faint grey-ish lines (vertical) at the sides of the screen, about 4 or 5 inches in from the side (one line on each side of the tv). At first I thought this could be early burn-in, but I don't watch any 4:3 programming without zooming it to fill the screen, and even if I did watch 4:3 images, the lines don't match up with the edge of the 4:3 viewing area. I can't really imagine what this might be from.

It's only noticeable when the screen is blank, or on very, very dark images."

Sounds like Rastor Ringing. I had that with my 65H80. But only on the left side. Maybe four or five jailbars lines seen only in dark scenes or a dark gray field with Avia. Nothing you can do about it, it was a anomaly inherent on many RPTV's, CRT-tube sets also. My Phillips 30" tube HDTV had the same bars on the left side.

I haven't noticed them on my 57HX93 I've only had it a week. But I'll give it a check with a dark gray Avia pattern and let you know.

No jailbars/ringing on my 57HX93. I've had it about a year now. FYI, when Eliab ISF'd it about 6 months ago he gave it a generally clean bill of health regarding electrical image anomolies.

Only thing he couldn't address at the time was that it was pushing red about 7%. The color decoder is not in the service menu for the HX93. He figures it's buried somewhere in the ADDR menu, but doesn't know where. If he had the ADDR codes, he'd have gladly done it at the time. Since then, I put variable attentuators on the red component inputs for DVD and the STB, and while that pretty much takes care of it, I'd love find out the ADDR codes for the color decoder. ... Tom, take that as a hint/request. :D


Tim

I had/have jailbars on my 46H83 from one side all the way to the other. They were always very faint. Since i've had the set for well over a year now, i'd swear they've gotten harder to see. And, i know that the SA HD DVR i currently have has all but eliminated them on that input, rarely if ever see 'em on HD cable now, and i used to see 'em every so often on other HD boxes i've had. Don't see them very much if ever on DVD either. I'll have to do a cleaning of the CRT's and such to verify but i swear they've gotten fainter and all but eliminated. Did they ever figure out what exactly caused them?

Is there a setting in the service menu to turn down the brightness of the on screen user menu? While trying to make picture adjustments in a very dimly lit room, the menu nearly blinds me when I bring it up to make a change. For several minutes I feel like I can't see straight.

There is a way to change the brightness of the Convergence grid and i would imagine that it is how you also change the menu screens brightness as well. If you go to keohi's website, look up designer mode instead of service mode and i believe there are instructions there on how to do it. I'm speculating that it would work. They do however STRONGLY CAUTION you from entering Design(maybe Designer)mode as it is more likely to screw your set-up than the Service mode. Go check it out ,IF YOU DARE>LOL!!

Does anyone have the original factory pre-set values in the service menu settings for the 51H84C?

Originally posted by OvalNut
No jailbars/ringing on my 57HX93. I've had it about a year now. FYI, when Eliab ISF'd it about 6 months ago he gave it a generally clean bill of health regarding electrical image anomolies.

Only thing he couldn't address at the time was that it was pushing red about 7%. The color decoder is not in the service menu for the HX93. He figures it's buried somewhere in the ADDR menu, but doesn't know where. If he had the ADDR codes, he'd have gladly done it at the time. Since then, I put variable attentuators on the red component inputs for DVD and the STB, and while that pretty much takes care of it, I'd love find out the ADDR codes for the color decoder. ... Tom, take that as a hint/request. :D


Tim

Same here I took a good look at the 57X93 last night and it has no rastor ringing. Nothing hugh anyway It never really bothered me with the 65H80.

I'll take a look at the CIE chart for the 57X93 to see which colors a strongest. I do have a one-for-all remote to get into the ADDR area but there's allot of codes in there.

Originally posted by OvalNut
Only thing he couldn't address at the time was that it was pushing red about 7%. The color decoder is not in the service menu for the HX93. He figures it's buried somewhere in the ADDR menu, but doesn't know where. If he had the ADDR codes, he'd have gladly done it at the time. Since then, I put variable attentuators on the red component inputs for DVD and the STB, and while that pretty much takes care of it, I'd love find out the ADDR codes for the color decoder. ... Tom, take that as a hint/request. :D


Tim

Tell me more about the variable attenuators. Are they easy to find? How expensive are they?

Here's a copy of my post over at the SPoT in which I detailed my experience with using attentuators:

=====================================================

57HX93 – Red Push After Calibration – Solved, sort of …

Back in September 2004, I had my 57HX93 calibrated after waiting about 6 months to let it run in.

To any of those on the fence about whether to have a calibration done, I can heartily recommend that you do so, and have Eliab do it if at all possible.

That said, one of the things that we noticed once the grayscale was set correctly and user controls centered was that the TV exhibited some noticable red push. This was probably there from day one, and was being masked to an extent by my best attempts to normalize the colors with the user controls. However, once we knew the grayscale was corrected, and color levels set with the color bar patterns, the red push reared it's ugly head. Since there is currently no way to directly access the Toshiba color decoder, the only short term accomodation for this was to lower the color saturation and adjust the tint to compensate.

So there I was, and as I watched the set more in the following weeks, I knew I was missing out on the best the set could do with both DVD's and HD. The red push manifested itself not only in the coloration differences, but the excess red in the picture was also affecting the perceived focus since the red was muddying up the image.

Then, after reading through some of the posts here regarding red push, I came to understand how the Mitsubishi and Pioneer owners have used attenuators with good success. While my problem was not as pronounced as on a Mits, it seemed similar. Net of it was that for $12.00 in parts and a visit to Radio Shack, I picked up an RF Signal Attenuator (Model # 15-678), along with some F to RCA adapter plugs. This attenuator has a variable pentiometer which allows you to literally dial in the amount of decrease in signal strength. I hooked it up inline with the red component cable on the DVD player, and as I turned the attentuation up just a hair, PRESTO, no more red push.

I then went back to RS and got another one and hooked it up in a similar manner to the red component cable from the STB, with the same result, PRESTO.

Bear in mind, this is an imperfect solution. If put on a scope, an attentuator will theoretically have other impacts on the picture, though these are admittedly negligible, particularly in comparison to the benefits derived from doing so.

Also, ideally you would want to use a fixed resitance attenuator so that you take the pentiometer out of the loop as with time these can become dirty and lead to additional signal degradation. There is alot of electrical engineering math behind how to figure the exact level of attenution needed, followed by selecting the appropriate resistors and assembling them in a circuit. Or, for $9.00 you can get one with a dial, and it's easy enough to just get a new one if it goes bad.

Lastly, this only impacts the component inputs for DVD and HD. Oddly enough, I have not noticed the red push on the analog cable (ANT1) or OTA antenna input (ANT2), so I'm not too worried about that as it seems confined to just the component inputs. Odd, yet true.

And the outcome? Stunning. Really. By only hitting the red component cable, the overall color balance is restored and the picture retains that 3D dimensionality that we all so appreciate in our sets, while restoring the color vibrancy to near reference levels with consumer grade equipment.

The upside to this is that since it is a color signal that is being attenuated, there is little or no impact on grayscale. All you're doing is getting rid of the excess red.

I really do hope this helps someone else out there. I know I was surprised, disappointed at first when Eliab said that some Toshibas do in fact exhibit red push, and further that the color decoder cannot be accessed to correct it. What the variable attenuator does is allow for a mechanical adjustment that mimics what a color decoder adjustment would do.

It's not perfect, but it does work !


Tim

Well, after many weeks of reading and thinking, I finally ordered my 46H84 and take delivery on Monday! I'm pretty psyched as this is my first HDTV. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions, but my biggest concern is my lack of a progressive scan DVD player. I have a decent Panasonic DVD-RV30--decent compared to some of the other cheap DVD players I've seen, but obvioulsy not a premium player. But do I really need to get a progressive scan player or is the circuitry built in to the H84 good enough? I'd considered a Samsung HD-841 but reviews on that seem pretty mixed.

In short, are most of you using progressive scan DVD players and if so, which ones?

Thanks!

I have had my 46H84 for about 3 months now and I am really enjoying it. But I am still using my PS2 as a DVD player.

Samsung and Toshiba have both come out with new upconverting DVD players (SD-5980 & DVD-HD850). Has anyone tried them with a H83 or H84 yet?

Around $150 each with a HDMI cable. Both, particularly the Toshiba, seem to be getting OK reviews on this board.

Thanks Ovalnut!!!

I added an attenuator to my red component cable last night. I played around with all the other picture settings in the users menu some more as well, and now the picture really looks great!

kbgl,

I'm glad it has helped you as well.

Tim

Originally posted by jim tressler
1. Yes it accepts 720p signals - it converts them to 1080i
2. Not too much - different cabinites - guts are the same
3. the hx83 series used the pegasus crts which were supposedly better

I have a 57HX93 (last years model) and the difference between the H and HX is two things:

1. HX is the upgraded Cinema Series which has newer (And presumably better guns)
2. HX has much improved sound system. Important only if you use the TV in non-surround sound settings, like on daily TV viewing when not player through the home theater.

Originally posted by xwilliam
Well, after many weeks of reading and thinking, I finally ordered my 46H84 and take delivery on Monday! I'm pretty psyched as this is my first HDTV. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions, but my biggest concern is my lack of a progressive scan DVD player. I have a decent Panasonic DVD-RV30--decent compared to some of the other cheap DVD players I've seen, but obvioulsy not a premium player. But do I really need to get a progressive scan player or is the circuitry built in to the H84 good enough? I'd considered a Samsung HD-841 but reviews on that seem pretty mixed.

In short, are most of you using progressive scan DVD players and if so, which ones?

Thanks!

I use a LG set top box / DVD player. It can put out 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i. A few weeks back I tried to compare the picture quality with different output settings, and also with my $70 Toshiba 3960. It was a tough call based on resolution. At the time, I felt the LG was a better player than the 3960. It also costs more. I've had my 46H84 about 5 weeks now, and I seem to adjust something on it almost every day. I would suggest using your current player for a while while you tweak things, and then try a different player from a store with a good return policy. You should consider Ovalnut's attenuator tweak to eliminate red push, and also adjusting CUTS and DRIVES in the service menu. Setting contrast and brightness to 45 is a good starting point. I was using a HDMI cable, but now that I'm using the attenuator on my component cable, I plan to return the HDMI cable and save $120.

Update.. Both of my DVD players look a little better on 480p than 480i.

Hello everyone, this is my first post.

In a few weeks I'll be getting a 51H84 (first big TV I'll have ever owned!). I'm pretty positive that I've read all I need to know before my purchase but I do have a question about the infamous "white line" issue. My apologies if this particular question has been answered:

I've read that *if* a TV has the white line that it shows up on a bright, white image, like a hockey game. From this point on will the line show up continuously or just in these particular situations? I think it's just specific instances but from what I've read I'm not exactly sure.

Regards,

Chris

Chris, it's always there, it's just that certain backgrounds make it easier to pick up (e.g. Hockey) -- and once you see it, it's very hard to ignore.

HTH,
Jim

It will only show up with a panning camera on a light(blue sky, hockey rink etc) colored background and usually for a fraction of a second. On 99% of viewing or more you will never see it. Once you do it may become distracting as you will be looking for it constantly instead of enjoying the picture. My H83 has never showed it to me. I have though, seen it on other Toshes to varying degrees. I don't think it's a deal breaker though.

Originally posted by pittdog1
I don't think it's a deal breaker though.

Because yours doesn't have it... :)

Originally posted by pittdog1
It will only show up with a panning camera on a light(blue sky, hockey rink etc) colored background and usually for a fraction of a second. On 99% of viewing or more you will never see it. Once you do it may become distracting as you will be looking for it constantly instead of enjoying the picture. My H83 has never showed it to me. I have though, seen it on other Toshes to varying degrees. I don't think it's a deal breaker though.

Thanks to you and Jim for the response. I suppose if my set has it I'll have to get it serviced. Not much else to do, unless it *isn't* an annoyance to me. Or it won't have the line which means nothing to worry about. I won't let this become a major concern for me since most RPTV's have some sort of issue.

I was able to contact an ISF-certified calibrator who will be able to calibrate my TV down the road. It's a big deal for me since I live outside of a major city. Fortunately I'm not so far that his rates will skyrocket. A polite individual, he also owns a Toshiba so that's a bonus. From the e-mail he said that once he does the calibration the first time that I'll only have to get it professionally calibrated once a year. Is this how it is for others who get it done by the pros? Again, I have probably read this but when one is reading hundreds of pages and thousands of posts it tends to become a blur. :)

Chris

Originally posted by jim_arrows
Because yours doesn't have it... :)

Good point.:D

If you need a copy of the service bulletin, i'm pretty sure i have a copy of the Official Toshiba service bulletin for the center drive line problem here somewhere and will look for it if you need it. Alot of people seem to have some trouble getting them to do the fix on H84 sets as the bulletin states H83 sets. Your ISF guy could probably do it as it looks pretty simple once the set is apart to do it. If your ISF gut takes the screen off and such it might be a good time to do it. It consists of soldering a short jumper wire between two parts that are clearly labeled in the bulletin with a picture.
Just let me know.

Originally posted by OvalNut
Here's a copy of my post over at the SPoT in which I detailed my experience with using attentuators:

=====================================================

57HX93 � Red Push After Calibration � Solved, sort of � While my problem was not as pronounced as on a Mits, it seemed similar. Net of it was that for $12.00 in parts and a visit to Radio Shack, I picked up an RF Signal Attenuator (Model # 15-678), along with some F to RCA adapter plugs. This attenuator has a variable pentiometer which allows you to literally dial in the amount of decrease in signal strength. I hooked it up inline with the red component cable on the DVD player, and as I turned the attentuation up just a hair, PRESTO, no more red push.

I then went back to RS and got another one and hooked it up in a similar manner to the red component cable from the STB, with the same result, PRESTO.

Bear in mind, this is an imperfect solution. If put on a scope, an attentuator will theoretically have other impacts on the picture, though these are admittedly negligible, particularly in comparison to the benefits derived from doing so.

Also, ideally you would want to use a fixed resitance attenuator so that you take the pentiometer out of the loop as with time these can become dirty and lead to additional signal degradation. There is alot of electrical engineering math behind how to figure the exact level of attenution needed, followed by selecting the appropriate resistors and assembling them in a circuit. Or, for $9.00 you can get one with a dial, and it's easy enough to just get a new one if it goes bad.

And the outcome? Stunning. Really. By only hitting the red component cable, the overall color balance is restored and the picture retains that 3D dimensionality that we all so appreciate in our sets, while restoring the color vibrancy to near reference levels with consumer grade equipment.Tim

Hey Ovalnut, I appreciate your tip on dealing with Red Push. I have a Toshiba with the same issue. Through setting adjustments etc. I have minimized it as much as I can but it still shows up during different programs. Usually darker inside scenes with a lot of dark brown furniture etc.

i just went to RS and bought the attenuator you used and the adaptors. Did you use 2 red component cables to run the attenuator to the STB and tv? I'm not at the TV right now and I'm having trouble visualizing the connection. I know it's simple but thought I'd ask. Thanks.

Originally posted by Wettpassat
I have had my 46H84 for about 3 months now and I am really enjoying it. But I am still using my PS2 as a DVD player.

Samsung and Toshiba have both come out with new upconverting DVD players (SD-5980 & DVD-HD850). Has anyone tried them with a H83 or H84 yet?

Around $150 each with a HDMI cable. Both, particularly the Toshiba, seem to be getting OK reviews on this board.

If you want to match Tosh w/Tosh I have and tested a Tosh SD5907 HDMI player. The image is clean, no bright push, no y/c delay, zero overcan, zero pixel cropping. Slow remote response was the only negative with the player. I'd still recommend at Tosh.

You just need to get the attenuator connected somewhere inline between the DVD and the TV. I connected the INPUT of the attentuator directly to the back of the DVD player using an F to RCA adapter, then the red component from the TV to the OUTPUT using another F to RCA adapter. Had to kind of squeeze it in between the other cables, but it stays snug and back out of the way away from curious fingers.

Another way to do it would be to run a short length of component or RG-6 coax from the DVD player to the attenuator INPUT, then connect the component from the TV to the OUTPUT. Use appropriate adapters as needed for the various connections. This would help relieve the congestion on the back of the DVD player. Some people may prefer this method because you can pull the attenuator forward so it will be more accessible when making the initial adjustments. Once it's set though, you can just push it back out of the way, leave it and forget it.

Either way is fine. Repeat the same steps for your STB component connection if you're putting one on that as well.

Lastly, once it's all connected, turn the dial all the way counterclockwise to MIN and see how it looks. You should need only a couple degrees of clockwise rotation to get the result you're looking for. It took me about 2 weeks of VERY slight adjustments to get it dialed in.


Tim

Just what I needed. Will play with it after work and post results. Thanks.

Ovalnut, pittdog1, or anyone else who may know....

Is it possible to get into the ADDR menu with any remotes other than the All-for-One's that have been mentioned before? I just got a Harmony 676 remote, that is capable of learning almost any command on any piece of equipment you can imagine. I'm hoping there would be a way to use it to enter the ADDR menu. It's my understanding that upon entering the service menu the ADDR menu can be accessed by pressing the "SET" button followed by 014 on the one-for-all remotes. Just thinking out loud - if I can somehow learn the "SET" button to my remote then I can use it and my number keypad to enter ADDR world. Does this seem logical, or am I overlooking something? I'm a newbie to Harmony remotes so I'm not sure about this, but if I don't have a one-for-all remote to learn from is there another way to get this parameter programmed into my remote?

The reason I'm interested in this is because I'd like to access the commands to dial in my overscan, like HPOS, which on my 57H83 is not accessible in the service menu.

On the topic of overscan, I have made a geometry template using instructions at the home theater spot which is said to be spec'd for about 4-5% overscan. If I adjust my geometry using this template is it necessary to use parameters such as HPOS, VPOS, HIT, WID to set the overscan, or will the overscan be set correctly all around by using the template alone? My common sense tells my no, it's not necessary to mess with these other parameters, but I want to make sure my thinking is correct.

Thanks in advance everyone.

usace,

Depending on your membership level at the SPoT, you can get the full step by step for adjusting Toshiba geometry in the Toshiba Tweaks section. Eliab did a full write up there on how to do it. Essentially, you do the service menu adjustments first to center, square and size the image. That is followed by using the template to correctly space and straighten the grid lines.

Tim

I think it's best to first set what overscan you want with the Avia overscan pattern, then go ahead and match up your template grid.

One thing I think that many are leaving out of the convergence tweaking, is first resetting the user convergence to the zero point. I should talk as I didn't do it either figuring the 57HX93 just came from the factory and no user did any adjusting.

For getting it right anybody who first fiddled with the user convergence, I'd think they would hv to go back and find the center point for each spot. Then re-do the dynamic convergence. That's what we use to do with the 65H80, or is a dying art? :)

Originally posted by OvalNut
usace,

Depending on your membership level at the SPoT, you can get the full step by step for adjusting Toshiba geometry in the Toshiba Tweaks section. Eliab did a full write up there on how to do it. Essentially, you do the service menu adjustments first to center, square and size the image. That is followed by using the template to correctly space and straighten the grid lines.

Tim

Thanks for the reply. I am a paying member over at the SPoT and have read through the appropriate steps to adjust geometry. I guess what confuses me is that it explains how to adjust the geometry using the template by basically aligning the convergence grid to the grid on the template. AFter that it then instructs you to set your overscan. It would just seem to me that the overscan would already be set according to whatever overscan is built into your template. I mean, you can make a template with whatever overscan value in mind you want. I guess maybe the directions are telling you to adjust overscan only if the amount in the template isn't what you desire. Is this correct?

For those following the posts here about using a variable attenuator to tame red push, there is some news for owners of the H84 sets.

It turns out that the color decoder parameters were added back into the service menu for the H84 series. I have not seen or tested this, but supposedly the following service menu parameters can be used to adjust the red and green color levels in the color decoder:

R-Y (red color decoder level)
G-Y (green color decoder level)

The blue is evidently used as a baseline, so no adjustment is available for the blue.

If the above service menu parameters truly do adjust the color decoder, then this would be preferable to using an external attenuator since the adjustments would globally affect all inputs, and any external effects introduced by the attenuator would not be present.

Again, this is for the H84 series only. For the 83/93 sets, the attenuator still seems to be a good way to go.


Tim

Well, I got my 46H84 and love it...but the stand issue is a biggie for me and I'm not having much luck. By my calculations, this TV needs to be on a stand less than 12 inches high. That's really low--much lower than any coffee table (what I had my old TV on). The problem is that my wife hates the modern TV stands and would prefer a wood stand with a classic/colonial feel to it. I don't think I'll find such a piece of furniture. I'd build it myself but I won't have the time for that until the winter! Does anyone know of something that would work for me that I can buy in the store? Despite my wife's protest I'd consider the Toshiba stand were it not for the pitiful lack of storage space and the fact that the space is hidden from IR behind a door. For $199 that's a pretty lame item. Any help would really be appreciated!

Has anyone removed the protective screen yet? I'm getting fed up with glare during the day time, and want to take it off and see how it goes. How easy is it to get off, and how do you do it?

With it off, what are the risks to worry about? Do I just need to worry about scratches?

Also, i have the extended warranty from BB. If something breaks inside my TV, I'm sure i would need to put the protective screen back on so they dont give me a hassle, but can it be put on without it being obvious that it was once off?

thanks.

Originally posted by xwilliam
Well, I got my 46H84 and love it...but the stand issue is a biggie for me and I'm not having much luck. By my calculations, this TV needs to be on a stand less than 12 inches high. That's really low--much lower than any coffee table (what I had my old TV on). The problem is that my wife hates the modern TV stands and would prefer a wood stand with a classic/colonial feel to it. I don't think I'll find such a piece of furniture. I'd build it myself but I won't have the time for that until the winter! Does anyone know of something that would work for me that I can buy in the store? Despite my wife's protest I'd consider the Toshiba stand were it not for the pitiful lack of storage space and the fact that the space is hidden from IR behind a door. For $199 that's a pretty lame item. Any help would really be appreciated!


I was told at the store where I bought my 46H84 that the remote would work through the grill cloth.

Circuit City has a glass stand with about a 12" space underneath. The legs are black, with chrome top and bottom and about 2.25" in diameter. It might work in the short run, but it's not ideal at all. I'm thinking of building one. I have some ideas for a design, but my wood working skills may not be up to the job.

Perhaps you could buy a coffee table and shorten the legs. This might could be done in an hour or two.

If your set is on the floor, be sure that the vents on the bottom are not blocked by carpet!

kbgl,

First, the standard safety warning:
WRITE DOWN ALL YOUR SERVICE MENU PARAMETERS BEFORE MAKING ANY CHANGES IN THE SERVICE MENU.

Once you've done that, I'd be interested in what affects you see by taking the R-Y parameter down a couple clicks. If you don't like what you see, just put the R-Y parameter back to it's original value.

Let us know.

Tim

kbgl,

Sounds good. Just be sure to do the testing without the attenuator hooked up.

Tim

Originally posted by xwilliam
Well, I got my 46H84 and love it...but the stand issue is a biggie for me and I'm not having much luck. By my calculations, this TV needs to be on a stand less than 12 inches high. That's really low--much lower than any coffee table (what I had my old TV on). The problem is that my wife hates the modern TV stands and would prefer a wood stand with a classic/colonial feel to it. I don't think I'll find such a piece of furniture. I'd build it myself but I won't have the time for that until the winter! Does anyone know of something that would work for me that I can buy in the store? Despite my wife's protest I'd consider the Toshiba stand were it not for the pitiful lack of storage space and the fact that the space is hidden from IR behind a door. For $199 that's a pretty lame item. Any help would really be appreciated!

xwilliam, take a look at my pics in the gallery. I've got mine on an Ashley Coffee table with the legs cut down giving the table a height of 13". It's got a 1-1/4" thick top and as you know the set isn't that heavy anyway. The legs came right off so i measured and cut them to the height i needed for my seated position. Click my gallery tab and take a look.:cool:

Originally posted by kbgl
Here's what I have in mind for a cabinet for my 46H84.

Looks good, but the 46H84 already has a 16-18 inch base below the screen. You would have to make the top part hollow to have the screen flush like that.

Originally posted by Wettpassat
Looks good, but the 46H84 already has a 16-18 inch base below the screen. You would have to make the top part hollow to have the screen flush like that.

The front grill of the 46H84 would be removed. The total height of the set would be increased about 8".

The effect I would be going for is to make it look like a large standard box type TV set is sitting on a nice wood cabinet. I would extend the front out about 5 or 6 inches from the face of the screen to allow building better speakers into the cabinet to replace the factory speakers. I would also add a center channel speaker in the middle. I should still have room for my set top box / DVD player and Pre / Pro in the very bottom. It would not quite look like a RPTV anymore.

Originally posted by OvalNut
kbgl,

First, the standard safety warning:
WRITE DOWN ALL YOUR SERVICE MENU PARAMETERS BEFORE MAKING ANY CHANGES IN THE SERVICE MENU.

Once you've done that, I'd be interested in what affects you see by taking the R-Y parameter down a couple clicks. If you don't like what you see, just put the R-Y parameter back to it's original value.

Let us know.

Tim

It doesn't seem to change the picture at all!!!

I tried with DVI, ANT1, and component as inputs with the same result.

One really important thing though.... In the process I discovered that alot of the settings in the menu are different when using the different inputs. I wrote mine down when using component. When I went in on ANT1, I saw that a lot were different from my list! (CUTS and DRIVES were the same.)

kbgl, that pic has me thinking about this. If we could build a stand that dropped the 13 or so inches of the bottom of the TV into the stand, we'd have something that looks just like your pic. If done correctly that would be excellent. I must say, after having my TV for a few days now, I'm not loving how it looks in the room. And my wife, who has been away at a conference, will see it tonight for the first time. I'd be willing to bet anything she is going to HATE it. Needless to say I'll be bringing flowers to the airport!

Your idea for the stand would make such a big improvement in how it looks in the room. My only concern is how to construct it and how much time it would take. I feel like I could make a basic stand (I have done a fair amount of carpentry) but I don't know where to get more ornate wood styles for the sides and base. Everything I have built from scratch has been with plain wood for very utilitarian projects. Ideally, I'd like something like this stand. (http://www.woodcraftfurniture.net/exec/ProductFocus.do?manufacturerID=WC&itemID=MCM3B1901)
But I'd want the first level covered so that the first 13" of the TV are hidden. Obviously that shelf would have to be reinforced as it will be where the TV rests. I'd put my receiver below the TV and my center speaker on top.

kbgl, let's brainstorm on this one!

I watched my first real HD broadcast last night (Red Sox vs. Yankees) and it looked great, but I think I have a convergence issue. The top left quarter of the screen, especially the last 3 or 4 inches of the top, are much more blurry. It looks like the CRTs are not aimed at the same places. I've been reading this thread for a while and am thinking I need to do the convergence work, right? I also think I have the red push issue. Even with these flaws, the overal image was excellent. This TV was a great buy. SD looks decent too--much better than I expected. Finally, I'd like to say how wrong I was regarding the stretch modes. They really do look ok and I can live with them for certain programs. One of the modes seems to cut off the top and bottom of the image allowing for less distortion. That also seems to have a good side effect of cutting off the static images often at the bottom of the screen. In short, you guys were right, the stretch modes are not the end of the world!

One last thing. With my old Sony, I used the verticle compression (16:9 mode) to watch DVDs. Sometimes, if I had to return a rental and hadn't yet watched the movie, I'd record the DVD to my ReplayTV. I tried viewing a movie that way on the h84 and couldn't get it to look right. The image can be made to fill the entire screen but then everyone is real skinny. Can I force a verticle squeeze on the h84 to bring it back to normal? Does this make sense?

XWILLIAM

My wood working skills are primitive. I build speakers from MDF and paint them. What gave me the idea for the stand was one that I saw at Tweeter. It was (I think) stained cherry or mahogany and about 5 or 6 feet wide. They had a plasma or lcd set of about 57" sitting on it, and it just looked cool. I think I will take a picture of it for reference. I actually like the look of the 46H84 as it is, sitting on the floor. I think the look grows on you. It does need to be raised a bit, and I'm trying to avoid a simple painted MDF box. We can PM ideas if you like.

kbgl, I'll PM you about the stand, but thought I'd ask about you here about having it on the floor, for the benefit of others. Don't you find the picture to be less than optimal with the h84 on the floor? From my testing, it seems like you really need the TV to be 100% dead center on your eyes for the best picture. Every inch I move away from that ideal angle (zero angle), I lose some brightness. Is this not true for everyone? It seems pretty common for every RPCRT I have seen. Left to right there is much more play, but up and down there is no room or error, at least that's what I've seen.

I watch from 12' which helps on the angle thing. I have sat down on the floor and leaned against the couch, but really don't see that much difference other than brightness which is easily changed. I realize that I need to raise it, but I just have not committed to a plan yet. I might end up making it flush with the wall.

Originally posted by AlbanyHDTV
Adjustment of Horizontal Image Placement
On Toshiba HDTVs

To adjust horizontal image placement, you need to get into “secret” service menu. The only way to get to this menu is via the One for All remote, which can be purchased for about $20 on eBay. You need model #URC-8910B02. Set the remote for a Toshiba by entering code: 0156.

First, with the TV’s original remote, get into the regular service menu by pressing mute 3x & hold, then press menu on the TV’s front panel.

Second, enter the “secret” service menu by using the One for All remote. Press the “Set” button, then "014".

Need to go to location code: 0DC0H

Use the TV’s original remote:
Press “100+” to adjust the first & second digit of the code location (hex code) to "0D".
Press “0” to adjust the third digit of the code location to "C".
Press “Channel UP or Channel DOWN to adjust the fourth & fifth digit (hex code) to "0H".

Press Volume UP or Volume DOWN to adjust to picture’s location left & right.

Press POWER to get out & save the adjustments.

This "secret" service menu that AlbanyHDTV discusses above is actually referred to as the ADDR menu (some people refer to it as the design menu). It's been discussed in this thread, but not in any great detail. One of the downfalls of the H83 sets is that the HPOS (horizontal position) parameter was taken out of the service menu, for whatever reason. It can be accessed, though, through this ADDR menu. In my quest to correct the geometry on my 57H83 I came across some info that I thought others might benefit from.

As AlbanyHDTV's post says, it's possible to access this menu using a One-for-All brand remote, configuring the remote to work with a Toshiba TV, getting into the service menu via the TV's original remote, and then pressing "SET 0 1 4" on the One-for-All. A few pages back I asked whether it was possible to access the ADDR menu using any other types of universal remotes, because I own a Logitech Harmony remote. I didn't want to have to buy this One-for-All if it wasn't necessary. The Harmony is capable of learning just about any IR command possible, so I figured there must be a way. I basically wanted to learn the commands "SET 0 1 4" to my remote, but the hard part would be that I don't have the One-for-All remote to learn from.

I did some research at remotecentral.com and found that the Harmony remotes accept Pronto Hex codes. These hex codes are basically just a series of numbers that the remote then equates to a frequency, which can then be assigned to a button on a universal remote. It seems that there are several universal remotes that are capable of accepting these hex codes. I got some help from a Pronto hex code expert who was able to give me the hex codes I was looking for. But first he explained to me that the commands "SET 0 1 4" was in fact only one command. The "SET" button on the One-for-All doesn't send a signal, but actually tells the remote that whatever sequence of numbers that follows is to be processed as one signal. It compiles the "0 1 4" and sends the corresponding signal. So, as it turns out, I was only looking for one hex code for all of "SET 0 1 4".

This code is:
0000 006D 0022 0002 0157 00AC 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016
0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041
0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041
0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041
0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016
0015 0689 0157 0056 0015 0E94

For those of you who have universal remotes that accept hex codes you now can access the ADDR menu. As a warning though, be careful in ADDR mode. You can seriously mess things up on your TV. I was only interested in the HPOS parameter, which actually appears as 0DC0H in the ADDR menu. So, as you can see, it isn't obvious what each parameter is in this menu... I have no idea what any of the other parameters in there correspond to. It's basically a mess and looks like alphabet soup. Be careful and only change what you are certain of. Once you're in the menu you can use your TV's original remote to navigate and exit by following AlbanyHDTV's instructions.

The H84 models may have this parameter in the service menu... I don't know. If so, you're lucky. My set didn't so I had to go through this hassle to achieve the results I wanted. But, I now have a prefectly centered picture. :) I realize this is some advanced stuff, but I figured it would probably help out someone.

Just took delivery of my 51H84 today. :) Best Buy were idiots about it (a case of one department not talking to the other) but it did arrive. Funny thing about it was it was delivered by a person who regularly makes deliveries at the business I work at, so I knew it'd be in good hands. Took some effort getting it off the truck but we did it with no breakage.

Beautiful TV. I do have the "red push" like many others here so one day I'll take the plunge and enter the service menu to adjust it (yes, I'll write everything down; as it is I'm paranoid about watching any single program with watermarks/black bars for any length of time to try to minimize potential burn-in).

I'm actually amazed at the PQ since I'm running an older Sharp DVD player (was top of the line for its brand in 2000) that doesn't have progressive scan. I figured for sure I'd have to upgrade to prog scan. In the meantime this will work. :)

Very satisfied with my purchase. Feels good to have a television I can be proud of.

Havent posted this thread in awhile, Sup Pittdog! Anyway I saw kbgl, and xwilliam talking about stands. I built a stand for my friend its specifically made for a 42H82. It is a floor tv so I made the stand fairly short only around 11 inches high, enough to fit a receiver snuggly with enough breathing room. Its made from a 1x5 oak frame, and the interior and exteriror is from MDF as well. The picture was taken without the "face plate" on so the front is not showing how nice it turned out, and it was also painted silver at the end.

Here's another

BTW either of you guys feel free if you have any questions about it.

Hey everybody:

been reading about this TV trying to figure out how to max the picture.
We have a new 57H84
replaced a 57H81

I have the Sound and Vision Home Theater Tune-Up DVD
but there are many parameters I'm not sure about adjusting

I can get into the Service menu - with the "S" in the middle of the screen.
and then it switches between the S and whichever parameter(rcut).
If you press "7" while on the parameter - the screen switches to another screen with all white rectangles and a square red box up at the top left corner. Down below there is listed X:2; Y:2; C:R; S:theaterwide1.
I cannot make the red box move.
I'm not sure what I did but if I press "7" the screen says "please push touch focus" . then it does it's thing and then reads "calibration finished.

The only way out of the service menu seems to be to turn off the power.

What did I do? Either good or bad?

I have gotten into the covergence screen but it doesn't appear that there is any red or blue bleeding - the white "crosses" look good to me.

I've reduced the RCUT parameter to 82H. Color is at 50; Tint is 0.

Regarding contrast, bright and sharp. I've lowered those in the preference setting (55, 60, 35). I only did this by sight and not with the DVD.
The differences between Sports, Stand, and Movie settings seems to be the contrast (100, 80, 50).

Can't really tell a difference between Film and Video.

Thanks for any recommendations.
Watching the Fockers tonight.

I am trying to access what the Toshiba web site explicitly says is available for my 46H84: "Discrete IR Codes" (http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/televisions/product.asp?model=46h84) . I would like to program my universal remote with (at least) the following discrete functions:
1) power on
2) power off
3) picture size mode (0,1,2,3 or 4)
4) picture mode (movie, etc)
5) inputs

Has anyone had any success getting these codes? I'm using a Radio Shack remote to access these codes and then send them to my MX-500 where they are permanently learned. Any help would be great!

Originally posted by PiaGuy
Hey everybody:

been reading about this TV trying to figure out how to max the picture.
We have a new 57H84
replaced a 57H81

I have the Sound and Vision Home Theater Tune-Up DVD
but there are many parameters I'm not sure about adjusting

I can get into the Service menu - with the "S" in the middle of the screen.
and then it switches between the S and whichever parameter(rcut).
If you press "7" while on the parameter - the screen switches to another screen with all white rectangles and a square red box up at the top left corner. Down below there is listed X:2; Y:2; C:R; S:theaterwide1.
I cannot make the red box move.
I'm not sure what I did but if I press "7" the screen says "please push touch focus" . then it does it's thing and then reads "calibration finished.

The only way out of the service menu seems to be to turn off the power.

What did I do? Either good or bad?

I have gotten into the covergence screen but it doesn't appear that there is any red or blue bleeding - the white "crosses" look good to me.

I've reduced the RCUT parameter to 82H. Color is at 50; Tint is 0.

Regarding contrast, bright and sharp. I've lowered those in the preference setting (55, 60, 35). I only did this by sight and not with the DVD.
The differences between Sports, Stand, and Movie settings seems to be the contrast (100, 80, 50).

Can't really tell a difference between Film and Video.

Thanks for any recommendations.
Watching the Fockers tonight.

Be Careful !!!!

Did you write down all the settings in the service menu? You could get your TV out of whack pretty quick if you're not careful.

It's the numbered buttons that are used to do the convergence. See the link in Ovalnuts post on 3/18/05.

Sounds like you have'nt hurt anything yet if you didn't change anything other than RCUT.

My settings are about 45 for brightness and contrast on my 46H84.

Originally posted by xwilliam
I am trying to access what the Toshiba web site explicitly says is available for my 46H84: "Discrete IR Codes" (http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/televisions/product.asp?model=46h84) . I would like to program my universal remote with (at least) the following discrete functions:
1) power on
2) power off
3) picture size mode (0,1,2,3 or 4)
4) picture mode (movie, etc)
5) inputs

Has anyone had any success getting these codes? I'm using a Radio Shack remote to access these codes and then send them to my MX-500 where they are permanently learned. Any help would be great!
OK, so I figured most of it out (suffice it to say I was doing something really dumb!) but still need the discrete code for picture size "Natural". I have a discrete for TheaterWide 1 (what I use most of the time for 4:3 material) and one that increases TW mode by one value. I also have one to select Full mode. But the most important is really the Natural mode discrete and I hope it exists. I'd also like discretes for the inputs and picture modes. Do those exist?

SSJLaletas, that stand is very similar to what I want to build, but I want to add a 13" portion on top of that to cover the speaker grill section of the TV. I would cover that section with two doors for access. This would make the TV look smaller in the room, not to mention, a bit nicer IMHO. Do you have any more specific details on how you built it?

Originally posted by xwilliam
Do you have any more specific details on how you built it?
Im not sure about the discrete codes will, I have Sony RM-AV3000 Remote Commander, and it works great I have no need for the codes.

Anyway I can spell out everything i did, i was limited because of what my friend actually wanted, I wanted to go more elaborate, but he wanted more simple and boxy.

But what I did is frame out the middle section with 1x5 oak, sturdy stuff (I tell you this can hold anything!). Anyway made my frame, cut is using a regular circular saw, screwing in with 2 inch screws. I had the top separate and put that on last becuase it would make things easier to work around. I drilled in a couple milimeters extra so that the screw sinks into the wood, then put wood filler in the small holes, that way no screws are shown, but still strong, i hate using nails, screws are so much better.

I then cut out my (1/2") MDF board for the bottom interior, and the interior and exterior of the sides. Same process using a circular saw, and sinking in the screws. Then placed on the top, cut out the holes on the back for cables and fresh air. Which then brings us to the two pictures I posted.

Then what I did was cut out four strips for the front. Then screwed them onto the front. Im not the best at cutting so I had to take a small jigsaw to cut off the excess so its nice and flush with the rest of the stand. Then went over it very well with a sander. And any open spots I treated with wood filler. If you need more exact details please feel free.

Originally posted by SSJLaletas
Im not sure about the discrete codes will, I have Sony RM-AV3000 Remote Commander, and it works great I have no need for the codes.

SSJLaletas , do you have the ability to enter Natural mode with only one button press? As it is now, I have to use two in sequence (Full mode and then navigation down to Natural mode), which makes macro programming that much less reliable.

I see why you would need discrete codes, for macros can mess up your purpose, but I dont switch my ratios at all. Mostly watch hidef/dvds, if not then the cable box automatically stretches regular analog stuff, and the digital stuff is automatically at 4x3. Sorry I wish I could be of more help. If I ever do need to switch modes however I just press wide on my remote commander (a couple different times if I want to a specific mode), so I do see how you would need that.

I recently was able to find a very reasonable purchase of a 51H84. The unit was only 4 months old when I got it. After rolling it into the family room and letting it sit for a few days (too many other things to do)... I turned it on. It played quite nicely for about 30 minutes until all of a sudden, a HV pop let loose... and before I could get to the remote to shut it off, it went through another rapid fire series of HV pops and the picture went to black.

Off to the shop it went. Finally got in touch with the repair tech who told me that the HV lead to one of the tubes had arc'd to the yoke and took out a transistor in the horz drive circuit... bummer. He said that he had seen several Toshiba's with this issue and that it required replacement of the HV lead wires and that that is what "fixes" the problem.

Just curious if this problem has been experienced by others with the Toshiba H83 or H84 series of projection tv's and if other issues were found that was truly the "root cause" of the problem.

Can any of you give some advice on a stand for the 46h84? Our HDTV is in the basement and once or twice a year we got about an inch of water in the basement. It's a long and frustrating story, but the city is working on getting more drainage for our back yard. Anyway, I want to get the actual toshiba stand, but i'm worried that my xbox will get wet if I put it in there. Any advice?

Thanks.

Just as we were discussing before, make your own! Its fun, your proud of your work, but most of all you get to make it custom for your own needs/components, especially since you have a leakage problem you might want to build like a two inch riser from the bottom so your components have no potential of getting wet, just a suggestion, as there are many stands out there.

yeah, build your own exactly the way you want it. Mine turned out better than expected: http://www.walt.lasley.com/toshiba.htm

(one sheet of birch plywood from lowes, 2x4's, trim, and castors as i am always changing the way something is hooked up/adjusted.)

I've been using my 46h84 for a few weeks now and am really loving the picture quality....except for one big problem. I've noticed on stretched content, there are 4 or 5 verticle lines left of center. They are usually grey but last night they became orange at one point. At first I thought it would not be an issue, but it certainly is one now. Has anyone heard of this? I don't think it is the "white line" people talked about on here nor do I think it is a "jail bar" although I must admit even searching through this thread, I don't have a very good idea of what either of those artifacts really look like. My HD picture is perfect as is my non-stretched pic. But stretched, I get these lines. Anyone seen this? I'll call Toshiba, but wanted to get your opinions first. Thanks.

Well I got my 46h84 today and am LOVING it save one major problem. All 480p 16:9 material is in 4:3. I've tried xbox games and programs, but everything that is in 480p that is 16:9 shows up all smushed with grey bars on the sides. The TV is in natural aspect ratio, as it should be, and I've turned on and off the auto aspect feature with not help. Please help!

use FULL instead

Are you sure? Won't full just stretch it? I like my HD sources like I like my ladies : el natural.

It recognizes 720p and 1080i sources as widescreen (from the same device it won't accept 480p in widescreen). What's more, when I turn on Picture in Picture, the 480p widescreen input shows up in widescreen next to the 4:3 input. Very strange.

Natural means 4:3, Full means 16:9. You want FULL. Natural will have grey bars all the time.

Alright. It just seems odd that there are a bunch of 480p widescreen games that you have to stretch your tv to see in widescreen. Thanks for the replies.

I believe 480p means 480 pixels across. In this case widescreen usually means letter boxed. Was the game letter boxed in normal width? IE black stripes at the top and the bottom?

480p = 480 visible lines vertically.

Wondering what setting everyone is using on their sets. I have a Toshiba 51H83 and its hooked up to a Comcast Moto 6412 box via component cables. What settings does everyone have a far as color, contrast, etc...
Also are your settings the same for DVD???

Originally posted by Strangelove1
Alright. It just seems odd that there are a bunch of 480p widescreen games that you have to stretch your tv to see in widescreen. Thanks for the replies.

you don't. "Full" is not stretched for a 16:9 (widescreen) picture. It's the normal aspect ratio for widescreen displays. It's only stretched if the content is 4:3 non-widescreen

Got it, thanks everyone for all the help!

Originally posted by roxrobin
I recently was able to find a very reasonable purchase of a 51H84. The unit was only 4 months old when I got it. After rolling it into the family room and letting it sit for a few days (too many other things to do)... I turned it on. It played quite nicely for about 30 minutes until all of a sudden, a HV pop let loose... and before I could get to the remote to shut it off, it went through another rapid fire series of HV pops and the picture went to black.

Off to the shop it went. Finally got in touch with the repair tech who told me that the HV lead to one of the tubes had arc'd to the yoke and took out a transistor in the horz drive circuit... bummer. He said that he had seen several Toshiba's with this issue and that it required replacement of the HV lead wires and that that is what "fixes" the problem.

Just curious if this problem has been experienced by others with the Toshiba H83 or H84 series of projection tv's and if other issues were found that was truly the "root cause" of the problem.

WOW!!!.... Am I the only one who has experienced high voltage arcing in the H83/H84 series??? Anyone else???

WOW!!!.... Am I the only one who has experienced high voltage arcing in the H83/H84 series??? Anyone else???
I certainly hope you're the only one. That is one *serious* defect!

Originally posted by xwilliam
I certainly hope you're the only one. That is one *serious* defect!
Nope, I experienced the same problem too. My track record with Toshiba is 2 bad out of 3 sets. Not a great track record. The good thing is that once they are fixed, they stay that way.

The repair tech that I talked to said that he had seen other Toshiba's with the same problem. In each case he said that replacing the HV leads "fixed" the problem. Makes me wonder if the original manufacture parts are different from the repair parts. I can't imagine why they would be but stranger things happen in business.

A few weeks ago I returned a 60" Phillips RPTV and purchased a 65H14. While I think that the DTV non-HD looks a lot better than I would have imagined, the HD material just looks good and doesn't really wow me or distinguish itself much from the non-HD.

I have done the convergance and used the Avia DVD to fine tune the settings but I am just surprised that the HD material just doesn't have that "wow" factor like the Phillips TV did.

Anyone have any suggestions?

By the way my HD rcvr for both TV's was the same - DTV H10 and also this is for both DTV HD material and OTA.

Originally posted by roxrobin
The repair tech that I talked to said that he had seen other Toshiba's with the same problem. In each case he said that replacing the HV leads "fixed" the problem. Makes me wonder if the original manufacture parts are different from the repair parts. I can't imagine why they would be but stranger things happen in business.

I don't understand why you didn't return the set and demand a new one. If the TV was only a few days old (as you mentioned in an earlier post), you have the right to return within 30 days from most retailers.

The set was purchased in Dec by a friend who later sold it to me... so return was not possible. At least I can claim it as a gift so that the warranty is in effect. The tech also said that it was very important to get the RTV at the tube very well and heavily applied. Still can't imagine why a set of HV leads would arc after only 4 months of service. Normally it takes some type of breakdown of the insulation or a contaminant to cause/facilitate an arc. Strange... Oh well, at least it is being picked up under warranty. I might need to consider selling this one and buying a new 57H84 with extended warranty.

Merlin,

I'm not familiar with that model, but recently had my 46h83 isf calibrated after turning the red gun adjustment trimpot (ouch!). It does have the wow affect (HD) and the PQ is quite distinguishable from non-HD source.

Something doesn't seem right...

Is there a final word on how to turn off Velocity Scan Modulation or SVM or whatever on the 46H84's? I searched the internet and the thread and couldn't find anything conclusive. Also, it is definitely not listed in the user menu and I don't like the look of movie mode.

Thanks!

Originally posted by Strangelove1
Is there a final word on how to turn off Velocity Scan Modulation or SVM or whatever on the 46H84's? I searched the internet and the thread and couldn't find anything conclusive. Also, it is definitely not listed in the user menu and I don't like the look of movie mode.

Thanks!

Set your user Picture Adjustments to the movie (or cinema) preset. This disables SVM. Any changes made to the Movie Preset, will keep the SVM disabled. Make sure you save changes. After saving, it will be the "preference" setting. Just don't go to the Sports or Normal setting and make changes, because this will write over your preferences.

I have the option of setting my xbox to display either 1080i or 720p. It is much more stable in 720p, but, of course, the H84's upconvert all 720p signals to 1080i. Can any of you help me out with this? Is the quality hit negligible from the upconversion from 720p to 1080i, or should I sacrifice stability to maintain the quality of displaying a source in it's native resolution?

Do these Toshiba TVs always have gray bars when showing 4:3 material? If so, is there a fix?
Thanks.

Originally posted by Strangelove1
I have the option of setting my xbox to display either 1080i or 720p. It is much more stable in 720p, but, of course, the H84's upconvert all 720p signals to 1080i. Can any of you help me out with this? Is the quality hit negligible from the upconversion from 720p to 1080i, or should I sacrifice stability to maintain the quality of displaying a source in it's native resolution?

I set my xbox to display every format - 480p, 720p, and 1080i. I don't have any "stability" problems in any resolution, and it looks much better in 1080i.

Keep in mind though, that most games only output in 480p. Very few even do 720p or 1080i.

Originally posted by Hyrax
Do these Toshiba TVs always have gray bars when showing 4:3 material? If so, is there a fix?
Thanks.

Yes, they always have gray bars. If you don't like them, then try one of the stretched formats. Theater Wide 1 seems to be the best for displaying 4:3 content.

You do get black bars when viewing HD 4.3 OTA 480p, Survivor etc. Otherwise the Toshiba's have the best stretch (TW1) for preserving tube burn in. Switching aspect format's is key. For SD 4.3 use TW1 to put a good amount of time in with full screen fill.

Originally posted by guitarman
You do get black bars when viewing HD 4.3 OTA 480p, Survivor etc. Otherwise the Toshiba's have the best stretch (TW1) for preserving tube burn in. Switching aspect format's is key. For SD 4.3 use TW1 to put a good amount of time in with full screen fill.

Those black bars are from the broadcast. Nothing to do with the Toshiba. The TV actually sees a 1080i broadcast and doesn't allow any of the stretch modes to be used during these "upconverted" broadcasts. Some of the broadcasters, like UPN in Atlanta use gray bars and again, there is nothing you can do to get rid of them because the TV is seeing a 1080i broadcast.

Hi everybody. Been browsing this forum for about a year now finally decided to join. I had a question about my Toshiba 46h84 crt. I am looking for a dvd player for it and I was wondering if anybody knows if the tv upconverts the signal better than a dvd player would and if I need a progessive scan one or not. I have tried the sony 575, 775 and the pioneer 578 players so far. Right now I just have my ps2 doing the job. Also my tv has the center drive line problem. Was wondering if there is a official fix for the 84 model #'s yet. Thanks

Right broadcast 4.3 HDTV on comcast or OTA will have black bars. Some DVD players will do black bars also. I don't use my Bravo D2 with the Tosh but I believe it's one player that will. I think some Panasonic's will do black bars also. For TV 480i which will have gray bars I'd use TW1.

Dan, get a progressive player. It's always better to have the player do the deinterlacing. There is a fix for the center bar, you'll hv to search for it. A tech has to apply a cross over to a circuit board. I see a house call in your future. :)

thanks guitarman, thats what I thought but i read somewhere that the newer tv might have better or just as good deinterlacing. Also, do I have to change any settings to have the dvd player do progessive and not the tv?

About the center drive line, I searched before and I thought that the fix was only for the 83 model numbers?

Would taking off the protective screen help the PQ or is it just a glare issue?

and I gotta ask this 2nd question even though I know it's not a fair one to ask... I've had the 65H84 since January. Got it professionally calibrated by a well known guy. My first big screen HDTV. So I should be really happy... Although the picture is GREAT, I'm just not seeing what I thought I would. Whenever I walk into a Costco and see their LCDs and Ahem...Plasmas, I can see a difference in PQ and I KNOW their sets are NOT even calibrated correctly. Am I one of those newbie guys who gets impressed by the high contrast/bright picture? lol That is really the difference I see. Before I purchased this set I looked at the Sony RP-LCDs, the 70 inch ones, but decided on this instead after the Qualia came out. Anyway, here's the question... How does the 65H84 compare to the Sony LCD, let's say 60 inch? (price not an issue with the two sets) My room is relatively dark when viewing and head on, about 12-20 feet away.

Would taking off the protective screen help the PQ or is it just a glare issue?
It eliminates glare, which improves PQ.

It eliminates glare, which improves PQ.


So if I watched in the dark, removing the screen would'nt help the PQ? I feel something's holding the PQ back, I thought it may be the screen.

Well, I suppose that if there's absolutely NO light coming from anywhere else, it would look the same, but that's a really big "if"! Even the light coming from the screen itself will bounce around the room and reflect back onto the screen.

Hi JohnnyG,
I don't know if you got my other direct e-mail, but I was wondering if Toshiba was coming out with some new crt rear projection sets this year? (H85/H95 or HX85/HX95) I didn't see any mention of RP CRT sets in the 05/06 new model lineup from the line show last week.

Thanks in advance for any information on this.

Ben Music

So has anyone here done the mechanical focus yet? I remember a few people here were going to consider it, I don't see any posts about the aftermaths though.

Although the picture is GREAT, I'm just not seeing what I thought I would. Whenever I walk into a Costco and see their LCDs and Ahem...Plasmas, I can see a difference in PQ and I KNOW their sets are NOT even calibrated correctly. Am I one of those newbie guys who gets impressed by the high contrast/bright picture? lol That is really the difference I see. Before I purchased this set I looked at the Sony RP-LCDs, the 70 inch ones, but decided on this instead after the Qualia came out. Anyway, here's the question... How does the 65H84 compare to the Sony LCD, let's say 60 inch? (price not an issue with the two sets) My room is relatively dark when viewing and head on, about 12-20 feet away.

If your room is dark and you're sitting dead-on, *and* your set has been professionally calibrated, I can't believe you'd be so envious of a plasma or LCD's PQ. My 46H84 has not been calibrated and looks great. My only complaints are on the size (bulk) and viewing angle. If price were not an issue I'd probably get a flat-panel but only because of space issues. I would expect the PQ to be worse than my 46H84.

Despite my response in the thread previous to this one, I'm having problems with the PQ of a replacement 46H84 I received yesterday. My first set looked fantastic, but had a defect when stretching HD signals--it displayed several vertical lines and the service tech recommended the set be replaced since it was only 1 month old. As I feared when I agreed to replace it, the replacement doesn't look as good. It seems the red push is much more significant on this one. It's like the colors aren't as strong but the red is crazy. My wife even noticed, which says a lot as she never seems to notice any changes I make to my system! I'm assuming that this time I'll need to buy a calibration DVD. I have the Home Theater Tuneup DVD from Sound & Vision but that's probably not sufficient.

So, first, which calibration DVD do you recommend for the Toshiba? Second, despite some reading and searching, I'm not 100% sure about how to accomplish the red push adjustments. Does anyone have a FAQ or specific instructions for common service menu adjustments for the H84 sets? Thanks!

Hey Toshiba fans,
Does anyone know if Toshiba is coming out with new H85 crt rear projection sets this summer/fall, or are they going to discontinue them all?

Ben Music

Second, despite some reading and searching, I'm not 100% sure about how to accomplish the red push adjustments. Does anyone have a FAQ or specific instructions for common service menu adjustments for the H84 sets? Thanks!

Search this thread for "RCUT"; the posts on that should be enough. Come back if you still have questions.

Couldn't find a detailed answer on this but was wondering what exactly is this so called 'white line' issue with these sets? I'm also wondering what 'jail-bars' are. Pictures of both would be ideal but I understand they might be hard to come by. A decent description will have to suffice.

Is the white line veritical/horizontal? Where does it appear? Same with 'jail-bars'.

I ask these questions because I think I see a vertical white line appearing in my set about an inch away from the center of the screen. It runs from the top to the bottom and I can only see it (very faint) when watching something like soccer on HDNET. Am I seeing a jail bar or is this the white line issue? My set is the 57H84 and everything is set to 1080i thru component cables.

Thanks all..

What you're seeing is the 'white line' you've read about. Vertical, near the center, and most noticable during pans over solid colors like soccer fields or hockey rinks. I know Toshiba quietly issued a service bulletin for H83 sets, but don't know about 84s.

Jail bars are a whole 'nother issue - similar to the white line, but spaced every 2-3" across the entire screen. There is no known cure.

After reading the posts in this forum, I dont know if I'm ready for what may be a world of frustration with this Toshiba unit.

Are the experiences I read about here typical? CDL, burn-in, jail bars, red push etc. etc. its a wonder anybody buys these things.

What is the real expectation for quality and reliability? The Toshiba appeared to have a much better picture than any other CRT. Can the other CRTs be tweaked to comparable performance?

Thanks for your comments.

Dan

re:46H84 for $1000 at Best Buy - Good Deal?
well, Dan, it depends on what you are comparing it to. And you WILL NOT find a model without some kind of issue. TRUST YOUR EYES!!!!!!!!!!!! If the 46h84 looks good to you, then go for it. ($1000 for that set would rank it highly in the cost/benefit category)

I bought a 46hx83 last summer and love it. i do see jail bars occaisionally and it took me a while to get the faces right due to red push, but i would definitely buy it again. I break into a smile at how Discovery HD looks when remembering that others spent over double for certain DLP's.

I have yet to have an ISF calibration, but remember reading that a properly calibrated/adjusted CRT rear projection set ranks at the top of the heap in picture quality.

If you wait for the perfect set with no issues that sells for $1000.00, you could be too old to hear or even see-just my 2 cents-good luck.

I have the prior model (46h83) and picked it up for ~1200 last year which I thought was a good deal at the time. The white line is there, but hardly noticeable and the set has been isf calibrated. PQ is very good but I am already sick of convergence. I have to do it at LEAST once a month if not more for the past 15 months. Other than that, it's a great little set.

Well, I took the plunge with BestBuy's great pricing on the 46H84. Their online price also included a Toshiba upconversion DVD player as well as free shipping. It sounded too good to pass up. I only wish they were offering the same type of discounts on Toshiba's 51" or 57" models.

I plan on eventually getting a front projector once I'm settled but for now feel that I can go with a smaller widescreen for DVD, XBox and cable tv, including Hi Def.

I took the plunge on the 46H84 as well yesterday. I bought it from the local HHGregg for a pretty good price (just a little over $1K). This set will be going in my bedroom, with my 55" Mitsubishi residing in the living room.

I had to run over to BB for a DVI (F) to HDMI (M) adapter. For some silly reason HHGregg only had HDMI (F) to DVI (M).

It's going to arrive at the store tomorrow from their distribution center and I'll be installing it in my room Friday night more than likely. I recorded SpiderMan 2 this morning on my HD-DVR to see how good the TV and SM2 broadcast looks. I also have the SuperBit version so I'll be giving that a run as well.

Mr Zoid

I have a 57HX83 and I just setup a home theater. I'm getting a blue arc on my screen at times. Is this interference from the A/V Receiver or the Subwoofer? Is it a problem with the TV? It seems to come and go and even if I shut off the A/V receiver and/or Subwoofer the arc stays.

The Receiver is on top of the TV and the Subwoofer is about 3 feet to the right.

Any help or advice would be appreciated.

Just picked up the Best Buy special on the 46H84 for my BR. Nice deal. I plan to tweak and play ;) Anybody have actual experience at removing the protective screen, or... any experience with replacing the protective screen with a non-glare material? If so, post details and experience or send a PM. Also, concerning the inner screen, how easily damaged is that material and/or how easy or difficult is it to clean? I can't stand the high glare screen, but worry that my 4 y.o. will cause damage. She probably won't (she's used to not touching my projector screen), but just in case, you know?

I'm Bummed now;

I ordered the special deal from Best Buy for the 46H84. I called BB on Friday when I realized their delivery date was going to be on a day when I was out of town, so I asked them to reschedule and thought everything was set. Instead, I got an email from BB (that I saw on Sunday morning) confirming that I cancelled my order. Yikes.

I called BB back as soon as I got the email trying to clarify and explain I never cancelled my order and that a mistake or misunderstanding had taken place.

This sucks! The special on the 46H84 is no longer available :(

What you're seeing is the 'white line' you've read about. Vertical, near the center, and most noticable during pans over solid colors like soccer fields or hockey rinks. I know Toshiba quietly issued a service bulletin for H83 sets, but don't know about 84s.


So, are there any other 57H84 owners who have the 'white line' issue? If so, is there a link to a bulletin somewhere so I can possibly get this fixed? Is it even possible to fix it? Hope so, cuz I love the set....

Thanks all!

[/QUOTE]This sucks! The special on the 46H84 is no longer available :([/QUOTE]


You need to CALL them. You received a transaction number when you placed the order. Call and keep going up the ladder until you get someone to reinstate the order.

So, are there any other 57H84 owners who have the 'white line' issue? If so, is there a link to a bulletin somewhere so I can possibly get this fixed? Is it even possible to fix it? Hope so, cuz I love the set....

Thanks all!
I also have this white line (CDL) on my 57H84. I called my local Service Center and they will call me back on Monday.

Anyone seen this one? We've had our 51H84 for about 9 months now. First saw this problem a few months ago. Happening more frequently now.

After many hours of being on -- I'd guess around 15-18 hours (still trying to dial it in so it will be happening when the service guy is scheduled to arrive) -- the bottom of the image starts shaking up and down, a little bit at first, and ultimately in larger and larger wavelike shapes until sometimes the picture contracts all the way to the top and there's nothing but a black screen. Then, over time, it tends to resolve and then the image is fine for a long period of time again. I know this because I tried leaving it on for the service guy, but of course it hadn't started to act up when he called. I thought he'd be calling back later but he flaked out. It acted up that night but by morning looked completely fine. Very odd. One of those things you wish would just break already!

Why on earth would we keep our TV on so long? Well hey, we have 4 teenage kids in our house. Enough said!

-- Robert

I also have this white line (CDL) on my 57H84. I called my local Service Center and they will call me back on Monday.
Followup:
The local authorised service center called me back to inform me that Toshiba did not release a TSB for the white line issue on 57H84 models. How can this be as its a widely known issue. Is the fix the same as the 51H83 TSB?

I am trying to access what the Toshiba web site explicitly says is available for my 46H84: . I would like to program my universal remote with (at least) the following discrete functions:
1) power on
2) power off
3) picture size mode (0,1,2,3 or 4)
4) picture mode (movie, etc)
5) inputs

Has anyone had any success getting these codes? I'm using a Radio Shack remote to access these codes and then send them to my MX-500 where they are permanently learned. Any help would be great!



Hi there

I have a 36" Toshiba Direct view CRT
Model is 36SW9UA
Unfortunately I can't post a link to it due to me being a new member >:( but if you google these 3 words ....... castel toshiba 36SW9UA you'll see it as the top entry.



Not sure what the American "sister" model is,... but I'd love to know if it has discrete input codes.

I'm 99.9% sure it does NOT have discrete input (ARGH) but perhaps some people could shed some light if ANY directview HD Toshiba's have discrete input - because if one does - perhaps they all do?

I just got a 46H84 Friday (bestbuy-dot-com $999 deal with free upconverting DVD player).

It has the center drive line problem, but I cannot see how this is a serious problem for anyone who doesn't watch a lot of hockey. I almost never see it, and when I do, it isn't very distracting.

ESPN, if yours is as faint and seldom appearing as mine, I wouldn't recommend going out of your way to fix it. Worse things could happen if you try to fix it.

The only problem with my TV that I did find distracting was the waviness of a panning image. I correcting it by using the convergence grid in the service menu and moving the lines till they were all evenly spaced. Amazing how less than a quarter of an inch on each side made such a huge difference on the picture.

Hi all, I got the new 65H84 and when using the HDMI input from my computer I have noticed that in 1020i and 720P the desktop extends to the left and right or the viewable area. One of my friends recomended I use the powerstrip program to correct this, it however wants lots of settings I dont understand. If anyone has a template for this please let me know, or any guidance on how to figure this out.

Daax

Hi all, I got the new 65H84 and when using the HDMI input from my computer I have noticed that in 1020i and 720P the desktop extends to the left and right or the viewable area. One of my friends recomended I use the powerstrip program to correct this, it however wants lots of settings I dont understand. If anyone has a template for this please let me know, or any guidance on how to figure this out.

Daax

Here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=206854) is a great place to start. There's also more sound advice in that section of the forum.

If you post asking questions, it'll be helpfull if you can post your system specs (the hardware) and what versions of video drivers you are using.

Mr Zoid

When you ask for Hardware I am assuming you just mean the video card, and that is the eVGA GeForce 6800GT 256 and I am using the latest Nvidia drivers for Windows XP Pro as that is my operating system.

However it would seem like the spec template for the 65H84 would not vary despite hardware generating the signal but I could be wrong :)

But basically powerstrip appears to want the exact vertical and horizontal settings as well as the frequency capabilities of the monitor and the manual is not specific enough.

Any help would be appreciated.

Daax

First time poster, long time lurker.

Bought my first big screen a week ago, the 46H84. I found a good deal at Sears for the stand at $149. So I ordered it and got it yesterday. I started to put it together and the stand is total garbage. A couple of screws broke, the thing feels cheap, and I'm not happy with the quality especially for $160 after tax. Does anyone recommend any other stand? Worst case, I can have my brother in law build me one but I'd rather just buy one. I'll pay more for quality.

Hi JustPlaneCrazy, i bought last years model the 46hx83 and have loved it from day one-a lot of TV for the money!

I agree with you about the stand and built my own to accommodate the dvd, vcr, etc. Used birch plywood, 2X4's, trim, and castors from Lowes. see: http://www.walt.lasley.com/toshiba.htm

good luck.

Thanks for the idea. What's the height on that? I noticed the Toshiba stand is 9" which is too low for my equipment. Yours seems perfect.

I can't build anything to save my live. I figure I'll call a woodworking shop in the Charlotte area and have them quote me some prices.

15" high, but the real answer to your question is to wind up with the TV at eye level when you and your guests are seated. determine that level and then work down to make the stand make up the difference.

Also, i used castors that are about 1.25" inches high as i am always changing something and needed to be able to move the stand. (the castors are hidden from view by baseboard molding)

If possible, leave some space for the equipment (component boxes) to get some air. I ended up mounting a small office fan behind the stand in the corner to do that. (my stand is open from the front, sides, and back with only the 2X4's where needed.)

Attach your shelves so that you can adjust them to accomodate the never ending change in boxes that seems to perpetually permeate the home theater animal in us all. (i used the little "L" shaped brackets from Lowes and drilled 1/4" holes in the 2X4's for various heights)

And don't forget to stain the stand to match your other furniture, walls, or floors. a couple of coats of polyurethane and you are set.

Convergence question with the 57H84. I've read throughout this thread that people go into the convergence in the service menu. The 57H84 has convergence options without going into the service menu. Do these two convergence options differ....? What I'm wondering is if it's even worth going into the service menu to do this.........

Hi guys, I've been snooping around here for a while, and thanks to everyone decided to get a 46H84 for my bedroom from BestBuy. Luckily they had an open box model for $899, and after using the coupon I got it for $765! Woohoo. I know I took a chance going open box, but so far I haven't noticed any burn in and the color and calibration seems just right (I'm only 16 and so I can't afford much) but I have a couple questions...

First, I didn't get the original remote with the TV. But I did get the remote that comes with the 30HF85, I have the remote from our downstairs 51H81, and from my Toshiba 20 inch flattube. Each one has different buttons that do and dont work. And the only way to get into my picture settings is by using the buttons on the actual TV. However, I have yet to find a way to get into the calibration settings (normal ones, not service menu). Someone on the IGN boards said that on the real remote the enter button is not the actual "enter button". Can someone tell me what the button is labled, because I'm sure one of my three remotes will do the trick. Or, is there something I must do before entering the calibration screen. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks.

Okay, kinda bummed about one thing with my 46H84. On the Toshiba web site, the rear panel shows a center channel in. I wanted to use the set to send my center channel output from the receiver, but it is missing from the rear of my set. Also, no problem, but the DVI-D connector is now a HDMI. That's okay, but the loss of the center channel input really bites.

Woo Hoo! :D Took off the screen protector. WOW! What a difference it makes! Was really easy. Took my time. Here's how.

1. Pop off the front speaker grill. There are five pop in/out clamps attached to grill. Don't worry. Just grab the grill on each corner and pull (or push out from the main body using your thumbs. Then pull the whole thing out from the center. Easy enough.

2. unscrew eight screws on either side of the speakers. These hold the bottom of the bezel.

3. Unscrew three (maybe four) screws holding in a decorative plate that runs to the right horizontally of the front control panel.

4. Unscrew three screws holding the control panel.

5. Unscrew two screws holding a piece of particle board that supports the wiring harnesss to the front control panel. This allows the front bezel to separate from the control panel.

6. There are eight screws behind the bezel, two on each side, plus two each on top right and top left. Remove these. Be prepared to hold the screen and bezel as you remove the last screws. After these are removed, the whole front will come off. There is a harness connector that must be detached. Just reach down and separate it. Now you have the whole front assembly loose.

7. Lay the bezel upside down on a soft cloth or blanket on a flat surface. Don't use a bed because of irregularities in the surface. There are four 'z' brackets holding the screen and protective screen in place. The two long sides have six screws and two short sides have four screws. Remove all these. (BTW - all screws are 1/4" hex heads with philips cross-tips in each part of this dissassembly/assembly)

8. Once you remove all 'z' brackets, slide your hand under the screen and lift up. This will allow you to slide the protective screen out from under the video screen. Carefully set this aside. I had two pieces of 24" x 42" cardboard cut out and sandwiched the protective screen between these two, sealing it with box tape. Now I have it set aside so it is available to reinstall if needed.

9. Before you continue, make sure that you have purchased a roll of 1/4" or 3/8" foam weatherstrip. This is available from Lowes, Home Depot, etc... You will need to install this on the 'z' frame members to act as a cushion between the 'z' frame and the screen, as well as take up the space that is left by removing the protective screen. When this is done, reinstall all the 'z' frames and just go back in reverse per these directions.

While I had the box open, I removed a couple of white stickers in the cabinet that were allowing light to bounce. Also, I have an air compressor and I noticed a few dust and wood particles floating around and on the lens, so I blew out the entire box, plus blew off the inside surface of the screen and bezel. I also had some blooming on my blue CRT. I understand these are left intentionally defocused to a slight degree. Not sure why. I carefully marked my original focus setting and refocused the lens ever so slightly.

I did this about five times, each time placing the screen back on the front with one screw holding it in place until I got the tight focus I was looking for. It worked so well that I did the same to both the green and red. Also, I adjusted the focus pots that are right there in front and really tightened up the focus nicely. I highly recommend this procedure to everyone. It has made a huge difference in the PQ. From start to finish took about an hour and fifteen minutes. Would have been shorter, but it was my first time and I was being overly cautious.

Next, I want to get into the service menus and hopefully get the color looking better. I own a CRT projector and have tweaked this to look really awesome through the service menu. Would like to know more about how to do this if anyone wants to enlighten me.

Hope this info helps take some of the mystery out of removing the screen. :)

Okay.. who put the white line down the middle of my picture?! I thought I was a lucky one, but all of a sudden it showed up. Maybe it was there all along and I just didn't notice it. Now, I can't get away from it. Oh, well..Toshiba service, here I come.

I just reinstalled all of my home theater gear in a new TV stand. I could have sworn that when I watched DVDs before I used the "Natural" mode, option 0 in the Picture Size menu. This is definetly the correct mode for HD content from my cable box. But now it seems like "Full" is the correct setting for my DVDs. Has it always been like this or has something changed in my system? I'd swear I'm missing out on some picture quality of DVD's in this setting. But maybe it just that I'm now so used to the amazing quality of 1080i broadcasts??? Am I losing my mind??? My DVD player (not progressive scan) is set to 16:9.

....

I've now just watched Boogie Nights on DVD and think Full is the correct setting. Not sure why I remembered Natural as the one for both HD and DVDs. This is correct, right? :confused:

The manual certainly isn't clear in this respect, but you want to use Natural for HD and Full for DVDs. Use Theater Wide 2 for non-anamorphic DVDs. Make sure your DVD player is set for a 16:9 display, also.

You're not losing your mind, just getting spoiled by HD. :D

I use Theater Wide 1 for DVDs that don't fill the screen. It gives me a great full screen picture for most DVDs. The Full mode distorts the picture so that everything is "squat". Not unwatchable but nowhere near as good as TW 1. Last night we watched Assault On Precinct 13. I changed it from full to TW 1 after about 5 minutes. Beautiful picture from my old JVC progressive scan player.

That sounds exactly like what happens when the DVD player is set for a 4:3 display instead of 16:9. The 'natural' aspect of a DVD is actually 4:3. Anamorphic, or Enhanced for Widescreen Displays, squeezes the picture down to look right on a 4:3 display. The Full mode on the Tosh (it's called different things by different manufacturers) properly un-squeezes the picture so the 'Full' width looks correct.

I use TW1 for SD channels (which are 4:3) and it looks very good, but Full looks squat. Check your JVC's setting for display size. Keep in mind also that 2.35:1 movies will still have small black bars at the top and bottom. 1.85:1 movies should fill the screen vertically.

Woo Hoo! :D Took off the screen protector. WOW! What a difference it makes! Was really easy

Hey, got any before/after photos? I have the white line issue as well.....let me know how it goes with service.......

The best picture I've seen is at Chris White's site. (http://white.hometheatertalk.com/tips/mirror.htm)

So what's the point of removing the screen? Is the PQ that much better?

good question-would be nice to hear from those who have removed the screen if it is an improvement and if anyone has gone back and replaced it.

The manual certainly isn't clear in this respect, but you want to use Natural for HD and Full for DVDs. Use Theater Wide 2 for non-anamorphic DVDs. Make sure your DVD player is set for a 16:9 display, also.

You're not losing your mind, just getting spoiled by HD. :D

How much image is lost when using TW2 with non-anamorphic DVDs?

Wap

4theheelz,
I removed my screen - restacked, actually. The lens and lenticular aren't very thick, and I was afraid they might sag without the added strength of the screen protector. I moved mine to the back of the stack. This might cause some reflection back into the cabinet from the mirror, but I haven't noticed it. This is on a 65H83 - you could just remove the protective screen and add weatherstripping on a 51". The nicest thing is there's no reflection on the screen - if you have any light, windows, etc. that reflect on the screen, it's well worth it. Blacks seem to be a little deeper also.

WapCaplet,
You shouldn't lose any of the image, other than the small amount you lose on the sides due to overscan anyways.

I just removed the glare screen on my 46h83 after watching with it on for 15 months. It's a huge improvement and highly recommended. Easy to do, just take your time. I did the restack also and put the glare in the back. One funny (kinda) thing, I got a piece of dust between the panels and now have to remove again to take it off. DOH!

I just removed the glare screen on my 46h83 after watching with it on for 15 months. It's a huge improvement and highly recommended.

What does huge mean though? Is it the equivalent of going from say....a dvd image to high def? Is it like going from standard def to high def? Thanks man...sorry for asking..again.

What does huge mean though? Is it the equivalent of going from say....a dvd image to high def? Is it like going from standard def to high def? Thanks man...sorry for asking..again.

Have you ever seen a reflection of a lamp or table or even yourself on the screen, and the more you try to ignore it, the more you see it? You force yourself not to think about it, and you're thinking so hard you've completely ignored what's happening on the screen. You get angry and rewind the movie and think "this is the part where I could really see that damn lamp," and you start ignoring the movie again. That won't happen anymore. :D

Okay, maybe a bit over the top, but for some, it's a huge improvement.

Hey, got any before/after photos? I have the white line issue as well.....let me know how it goes with service.......

In my haste, I didn't take any pics. Bummer :confused: I have Toshiba service scheduled to come out for the white line issue, so I'll be putting the protective screen back on to allow the set to look "factory fresh". :D

When I take it back off I'll do the pics and post.

4theheelz,
I removed my screen - restacked, actually. The lens and lenticular aren't very thick, and I was afraid they might sag without the added strength of the screen protector. I moved mine to the back of the stack. This might cause some reflection back into the cabinet from the mirror, but I haven't noticed it. This is on a 65H83 - you could just remove the protective screen and add weatherstripping on a 51". The nicest thing is there's no reflection on the screen - if you have any light, windows, etc. that reflect on the screen, it's well worth it. Blacks seem to be a little deeper also.

WapCaplet,
You shouldn't lose any of the image, other than the small amount you lose on the sides due to overscan anyways.

I understand why you'd be concerned about screen sag since that's a pretty large screen, but doesn't placing the screen protector behind the screen add additional light refraction to the projected image? Seems to me that it might defeat the front surface mirror's value.

Have you ever seen a reflection of a lamp or table or even yourself on the screen, and the more you try to ignore it, the more you see it?


Nope. My set is in the cellar with little to no lighting at all. If I had my set in my living room I'd probably pull the screen off with two hands and throw it out the window though :)


Hey digital_dilema....did you happen to find a service bulletin for that white line issue? Another guy in this thread said something that they wouldn't service the 57H84 as the bulletin didn't relate to it. I think you have a different set than I do but was wondering how you went about calling Toshiba/whoever to come out and fix it.....thanks man...

pjo

The rub with the H84's and the white line bulletin is that the bulletin only addresses the 83/93 series sets. After that bulletin was issued, Toshiba applied the fix to the H84's at the factory before they were shipped.

One theory as to why some (most?) H84's still exhibit the line is that the wire they used for the jumper at the factory is very narrow gauge so some current is being lost and the white line still appears, though to a lesser extent. The rub for H84 owners now is that since the factory has already "fixed" the problem before intial shipment, they will not authorize any in field modifications.

For those hearty souls who are good with a soldering iron, the fix involves soldering a thicker guage wire in place of the thin one currently there. Or, you could pay for a Toshiba qualified technician to do it for you on your dime. When my HX93 was fixed under warranty, the tech used a piece of standard 14 guage insulated solid core copper wire. I have not seen the white line since.

Be careful out there.

Tim

To answer the scrren removal PQ "huge" change question:

Fire up a movie on your set during a sunny day with all the windows open and as many lights on as ytou can find.

Now do the same thing at night with all the lights out.

That's the difference.

I understand why you'd be concerned about screen sag since that's a pretty large screen, but doesn't placing the screen protector behind the screen add additional light refraction to the projected image? Seems to me that it might defeat the front surface mirror's value.

The picture looks pretty darn good, even with any possible refraction. I'm going to try it without the screen protector at all to see if it makes that much of a difference. Of course, any improvement that's offset by a distorted picture due to sagging wouldn't be worth it.

The picture looks pretty darn good, even with any possible refraction. I'm going to try it without the screen protector at all to see if it makes that much of a difference. Of course, any improvement that's offset by a distorted picture due to sagging wouldn't be worth it.
Try puttng the glare screen inbetween the 2 remaining screens. That will eliminate any refracting and provide the strength you seek.

As for the question of how big the difference of removing the protective 'glare' screen is, it is literally night and day. I wrote the removal procedure for the H83 series on Chris Whites website.

The picture looks pretty darn good, even with any possible refraction. I'm going to try it without the screen protector at all to see if it makes that much of a difference. Of course, any improvement that's offset by a distorted picture due to sagging wouldn't be worth it.

Anyone here read a posting where the screen protector was removed and replaced with high clarity, non-glare plexiglass? I've got some art prints that I had custom framed and they used this plastic. It is exceptionally clear, with UV protection and... no glare. I'm considering getting a piece cut to place in front of my screen and try it out. Just wondering if anybody has tried it and been satisfied or not.

I have heard of a company called 'Mighty Screen' I believe. They are supposed to have glare-free shields. But it costs.

Try puttng the glare screen inbetween the 2 remaining screens. That will eliminate any refracting and provide the strength you seek.


I hadn't thought of that - I guess I always assumed those two needed to be against each other. New weekend project!


As for the question of how big the difference of removing the protective 'glare' screen is, it is literally night and day. I wrote the removal procedure for the H83 series on Chris Whites website.


Thanks for the write-up. I printed them out before I started, and they were complete and easy to read. I've read about using magazines to keep the stack from sagging. I didn't have enough magazines, but DVD cases (single, keepcase, no snappers) worked perfectly. I went 10 wide and 4 high for the 65" screen, and it held the stack at the right height inside the bezel.

You may wish to paint the frame black when you have it off. I painted all the silver trim black (inside and out) and the picture is even BETTER than just the screen removal. I used 2 cans $.99 flat black spray paint from Wal-Mart. VERY classy now.

Just a suggestion. I am SO glad I did mine.

Have 2 post be4 a pic can be linked.

Last one i think.

Picture with glare shield removed and screen frame painted black:

http://www.hdtvoice.com/voice/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=364&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

Has anyone else noticed a problem with extremely bright TV commercials that are almost a solid white screen to get your attention? Every now and then one comes on and I can't get to the remote quick enough to get it off the screen. Some of these literally light up the room. I'm concerned that some damage to the set could occur. I never see such exagerated brightness in any DVD or TV show, just in some of the commercials. It's bad enough when they jack up the volume, but this is twice as annoying. Is there any chance of a 30 second commercial like this causing burn in damage?

No, not really. What commercials? For what product?

I just bought a 51H84...love the picture..but have already had to have one set replaced....due to the following problem...

While watching, the picture suddenly goes "black" (occasionally producing a thin blue horizontal line before total black)....

Sometimes, it will lose sound with it....

it usually lasts for a couple seconds..but sometimes as long as 15-20 seconds...

it happens in ANY weather (I have Dish Network)...

Trying to get an answer from (or even get through to) Toshiba service or even corporate is like having root canal work done...you dread having to do it...it hurts going through it, and you're numb afterward

Anyone else experiencing this problem???

I have the option of swapping out for a Mitsubishi 55" WS55315.....

Any thoughts???

No, not really. What commercials? For what product?

I think last night it was a Cialis commercial. I was frantically trying to get to the remote and turn the channel so I could be wrong. There is no reason for the commercial to be so bright. It's just a lame attempt to get the viewers attention. My main concern is whether or not it could damage anything in my 46H84.

I think last night it was a Cialis commercial. I was frantically trying to get to the remote and turn the channel so I could be wrong. There is no reason for the commercial to be so bright. It's just a lame attempt to get the viewers attention. My main concern is whether or not it could damage anything in my 46H84.
No. The commercial is not on long enough to cause burn-in (hours and hours of a static image). Not long enough to burn out the phosphers either. You are safe IMHO.

I just bought a 51H84...love the picture..but have already had to have one set replaced....due to the following problem...

While watching, the picture suddenly goes "black" (occasionally producing a thin blue horizontal line before total black)....

Sometimes, it will lose sound with it....

it usually lasts for a couple seconds..but sometimes as long as 15-20 seconds...

it happens in ANY weather (I have Dish Network)...

Trying to get an answer from (or even get through to) Toshiba service or even corporate is like having root canal work done...you dread having to do it...it hurts going through it, and you're numb afterward

Anyone else experiencing this problem???

I have the option of swapping out for a Mitsubishi 55" WS55315.....

Any thoughts???
You said you already replaced one set. Is the new set you have now doing the same thing? If so then yes I would try a different brand or at te very least try another store and get another 51H84.
I have not experienced this on my 51H83.

I have been having an intermittent problem with my Toshiba 51HX83. The color will change from normal color to Blue or Green tint back to normal. Sometimes this will not happen for hours and other times it is continual back and forth. Does anyone have this same problem? Anyone know cause and how to fix? Help!

My order for the 46H84 is still pending while I move into my apartment.

My question is should I go ahead and get the 46H84 or seek out one of Toshiba's DLP rear projection sets?

The reason I ask is because with the new 1080P DLP sets now being released, the prices for the 720P DLP sets are dropping. And, even the largest DLP sets all seem to weigh less and are thinner than the smallest Toshiba CRT rear projection sets.

Thanks. Jimmy

1080i is still better resolution than 720p. There is no 1080p material so everything gets converted anyway. CRT is arguably still KING of picture quality.

I would stick with the 46H84 personally.

re: Toshiba 51HX83 Color Problem

i had similar problem-turned out to be loose/defective component cable. try a new cable and make sure it is really a tight fit. monster 3's are overpriced but rarely come loose.

1080i is still better resolution than 720p. There is no 1080p material so everything gets converted anyway. CRT is arguably still KING of picture quality.

I would stick with the 46H84 personally.
Ok now how is 1080i better than 720p? It can be argued in both ways, either one really not being better than the other just different.

In favour of 720p: In reality because 1080i is interlaced on any given moment you are really only seeing 540 lines of vertical resolution, so when compared to 720p obviously 720p has the better resolution

In favour of 1080i: Although the above is true, the horizontal resolution stays the same of 1920 across, whereas 720p is at 1280 across, so obviously 1080i is better.

Both have its advantages and disadvantages, neither really better than the other. And if you can distinguish a huge discernable difference then let me have your eyes.

BTW after seven months Im still loving my 46H84.

i have been intending to get the sony 520 but locally the tosh 51h84 is on sale again so i may switch

i have read many reviews of this set on the web and they quite literally fall into 2 categories either:

a) this set is awesome, picture quality is unrivalled, the best...or

b) this set is a piece of junk, popping sounds, white lines, picture goes black etc

i get the feeling that buying the 51h84 will be pretty much like buying a lottery ticket where you will get a great set or a lump of plastic

what gives?
what am i missing?