The 360 is setup as 1080i (which the TV supports natively) over component. I believe I was able to go into the menu on the TV (maybe, because it was late and I remember the full/ws1/ws2/ws3 were 'not available') and select 1080i instead of 540p but it still is cutting off the sides (maybe the top too... don't know)

Is this because of the 540p capability of the TV? I have an LG terrestial tuner and I noticed that FOX (720P) does the same thing (the fox logo on the bottom right is cut-off on the right by about 35%) where CBS and the other 1080i channels seem to be okay (HD logo is tucked neatly in the corner, fully visible).


This is a digital TV, and therefore has a buffer. Don't confuse the "goes in'ta" with the "comes out'ta". The buffer can accept 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i as inputs. The output has no relationship with the input. The output is dictated by the type of display and what it can do. The HX83/HX84's display can do either 540p or 1080i.

Even if the input is DVI at 1080i, and the display is set at 1080i also, it still goes thru the buffer and all the appropriate conversions.


Touch Focus helps, then I do the 9 point from the regular menu but adjusting one section seems to pull on another.


If you haven't done it yet. you need to do the 56 point convergence. I also suggest you keep way, far away, from that Touch Focus button. :D

You need to do the 56 point convergence for each input type. The set seems to like to store the convergence info, the way it stores color, brightness, etc, settings. In other words, in the setup menu, the first menu, the top most item, after the word "Picture", for each name given, there is a separate set of settings stored.

This is a digital TV, and therefore has a buffer. Don't confuse the "goes in'ta" with the "comes out'ta". The buffer can accept 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i as inputs. The output has no relationship with the input. The output is dictated by the type of display and what it can do. The HX83/HX84's display can do either 540p or 1080i.

Even if the input is DVI at 1080i, and the display is set at 1080i also, it still goes thru the buffer and all the appropriate conversions.

Thanks for the reply Walt. I think I understand the input/output issue, it's scaling the image to either it 540p or 1080i, no matter what, correct?

So does this leave 720p input somewhat handicapped? Like I mentioned before it seems to cut off quite a bit from the 720p sources. Doesn't seem correct though... (as in, thats not cool) ;)

I need to do the convergence, I followed some of the links in the thread and got some info. I think I can get in and do the 56 point convergence. I am considering buying the service manual if it had step by step instructions... if its all hex codes and technical jargon I can't decipher i might have to skip it though.

Is this because of the 540p capability of the TV? I have an LG terrestial tuner and I noticed that FOX (720P) does the same thing (the fox logo on the bottom right is cut-off on the right by about 35%) where CBS and the other 1080i channels seem to be okay (HD logo is tucked neatly in the corner, fully visible).

What happens to your FOX station if you set the output of your LG to 1080i? Most FOX affiliates are pushing their bugs much closer to the "safe zone" edge than CBS's logo. I suspect this is a case of too much horizontal overscan ... a typical factory setup issue on Toshiba sets. (I suspect they do this to cover up the limitations of the convergence circuitry at the edges.)

Thanks for the reply Walt. I think I understand the input/output issue, it's scaling the image to either it 540p or 1080i, no matter what, correct?


Yes.


So does this leave 720p input somewhat handicapped? Like I mentioned before it seems to cut off quite a bit from the 720p sources. Doesn't seem correct though... (as in, thats not cool) ;)


I don't think any more than 480i or 480p. Have you checked the Fox HD channel on other sets? As HDTVChallenged mentioned, it could simply be the way they broadcast it.

The only cut-off I ever really notice, is when watching 480i/p in TW1 (non-linear stretch) mode.


I need to do the convergence, I followed some of the links in the thread and got some info. I think I can get in and do the 56 point convergence. I am considering buying the service manual if it had step by step instructions... if its all hex codes and technical jargon I can't decipher i might have to skip it though.

There are no hex codes in doing the 56 pt convergence. Once you learn the right buttons to press, it is rather easy. Just line up the 56 red and blue crosshairs with the green crosshairs.

Yes.



I don't think any more than 480i or 480p. Have you checked the Fox HD channel on other sets? As HDTVChallenged mentioned, it could simply be the way they broadcast it.

The only cut-off I ever really notice, is when watching 480i/p in TW1 (non-linear stretch) mode.



There are no hex codes in doing the 56 pt convergence. Once you learn the right buttons to press, it is rather easy. Just line up the 56 red and blue crosshairs with the green crosshairs.


Thanks for the reply guys. I messed with it more last night. I haven't tried switching it to 1080i on the LG for FOX but I will. I imagine its a combo of slight overscan on the TV and local affliate doing its thing.

I tried the convergence steps from here:

White's Home Theatre page (http://www.bus.ucf.edu/cwhite/theater/theater.htm)

But the parts about 100, 0, ENT matching up with Red, Green, Blue going on and off doesn't seem to fit (I have an 46HX83). I don't get just a green grid, just a blue grid, etc. I can select it so I am adjusting r,b,g (the box that is on the convergence point you adjust the grid changes from red to blue to green) but I can't isolate just green to do a visual vertical/horizontal adjustment then align r and b to that... the models the site refers to are older. Mine might be different.

I ending up finding an IFS guy in town and called them. They have never done in in home calibration but do it as part of lager installs for companies, churches, etc. Sounded pretty knowledgable. Color accuracy is important to me and I believe that is what most people do it for but I want someone that can actually physically/mechanically adjust convergence and focus to its optimal... accurate colors would just be a bonus at this point. I need to find out if they would be willing to get into the cabinet itself if need be. If not I might get the service manual and try some of the techniques for focus and convergence that people refer too.

-Sean

But the parts about 100, 0, ENT matching up with Red, Green, Blue going on and off doesn't seem to fit (I have an 46HX83). I don't get just a green grid, just a blue grid, etc. I can select it so I am adjusting r,b,g (the box that is on the convergence point you adjust the grid changes from red to blue to green) but I can't isolate just green to do a visual vertical/horizontal adjustment then align r and b to that... the models the site refers to are older. Mine might be different.


I have a 46HX83 too.

It has been a while, and yes, the remotes have changed a bit.

If my memory is right, it is really 100, 0, CH RTN, and for our remotes, the CH RTN button is no longer in a nice straight line with 100 and 0. Its down below the Channel UP and DOWN button, and to the left of the INPUT button.

Just in case this helps, if you don't have this (older) diagram yet, here it is....

My sister has a Toshiba 46H83. I see that it does not have a built-in HD tuner. It was marketed as an "HD capable" TV.

What kind of a TV is this exactly? Is it a digital TV? What is its native resolution? How does it display HD cable, XBOX 360 or the HD disc formats? If a 720p or 1080p/i signal is sent to this TV, how does the TV display the image?

Okay. Looks like I spoke too soon.

I d/led the 46H83 manual last week from Toshiba's site, but I didn't see the regular, descriptive terminology that you'd normally find to describe an HD TV. I'm assuming that since this TV is a little older, the industry hadn't formed a standard of describing the features.

So, it looks like this TV is an HDTV, but it just lacks a built-in HD cable tuner. It'll display all the way up to 1080i. Now, how does it handle sources such as SD TV, 480 or 720? Does it up-convert everything to 1080i?

"HD ready/capable" basically means it requires an external HD source like a HD DVD player or HD Tuner box. These CRTs depending on what you tell it to do convert everything to 540p or 1080i. Seems a lot of people (including me) don't like the 540p function and just leave it at 1080i.

"HD ready/capable" basically means it requires an external HD source like a HD DVD player or HD Tuner box. These CRTs depending on what you tell it to do convert everything to 540p or 1080i. Seems a lot of people (including me) don't like the 540p function and just leave it at 1080i.


Is that setting switchable via the remote (a single button) or by navigating through the menu?

Also, is that a "per input" setting or is it going to be a global setting?

What kind of a TV is this exactly? Is it a digital TV?


It is a digital high definition, 16:9, monitor.

What is its native resolution?

Unlike LCD, DLP, or Plasma based displays which have only one native resolution, this set is CRT based and actually has two, user selectable, native resolutions; 540p and 1080i.

How does it display HD cable, XBOX 360 or the HD disc formats?

By connecting up the external video source to the appropriate input jack on the back.

If a 720p or 1080p/i signal is sent to this TV, how does the TV display the image?

The input signal goes into the digital buffer. The output of the buffer is either 540p or 1080i, and goes thru a digital-to-analog converter that then drives the CRT's.

Now, how does it handle sources such as SD TV, 480 or 720? Does it up-convert everything to 1080i?

This is a digital TV, and therefore has a buffer. Don't confuse the "goes in'ta" with the "comes out'ta". The buffer can accept 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i as inputs. The output has no relationship with the input. The output is dictated by the what you have the native display to be (either 540p or 1080i).

Is that setting switchable via the remote (a single button) or by navigating through the menu?

It is set by a setup menu option. Honestly, I set my to 1080i back when I first got my mine, and haven't changed or played with it since.


You didn't ask, but the shining star of these Toshiba sets, is how they can handle 4:3 images sizes, and display them on its 16:9 screen. At least back when it was in production, it had a unique non-linear stretch mode, called "theater wide 1" on the set itself. This non-linear stretch was the best compromise available, and still does a superb, industry best, job of converting 4:3 images into 16:9 images, without all the strange artifacts like noticeably odd shaped heads on people.

It looks like I am not alone here - I have a 57H83 and my Best Buy service plan runs out in March. I had a faint bar running vertically down the left side of the screen for the longest time. I didn't think much of it since it was close to the bezel and I was able to "trick" myself into thinking it was just a shadow from the bezel. More recently a few HD channels shifted their logo's outwards and the PS3 interface and store showed me that I had some overscan issues (no test discs - just the Sound & Vision disc with some test patters but no overscan ones). I adjusted my HWID today and then did a 52pt convergence.

The faint bars on the left side moved towards the middle with the width adjustment and revealed a few more bars of varying widths. I see two other people have a similar issue and was wondering what could cause this issue and is it repairable?? I tried taking some pictures but none of them properly showed the problem. It was bearable before but now it's become a major issue and quite unbearable.

I also have a 57h83 that is about 2 years old and I have 2 problems:

1) I have not just 1 white line but 1/2 inch-wide vertical light bars that traverse the entire length of the screen...once again, not what the posting referred to exactly any idea what this could be? they are faint but noticable when viewing certain shows--especially dvd's but also regular tv and hd programs regardles of input. it is not clear that they are any worse or better in light or dark scenes



about 2 inches from the left side of the screen there is a line that runs from top to bottom. It's grayish in color, a little fuzzy (not a sharp line) and is a few millimeters thick. It's been there as long as I can remember. It doesn't stand out all that much, but if I pointed it out, you wouldn't have to squint or look very hard for it. It's much more obvious in some scenes than it is in others depending on the brightness and color of the viewing material.

I started wondering if this might be a white line issue, but the tech bulletin describes the white line as being approx. 1 inch from the center of the screen, whereas mine is close to the left edge. I'll definitely try to photograph it and get it up here. I'm just wondering if anyone else has seen anything like this. I have 1 yr left on my best buy warranty, but now that I've removed the screen and done all of these tweaks I don't know if they'd do anything for me.

I have a 46HX83 too.

It has been a while, and yes, the remotes have changed a bit.

If my memory is right, it is really 100, 0, CH RTN, and for our remotes, the CH RTN button is no longer in a nice straight line with 100 and 0. Its down below the Channel UP and DOWN button, and to the left of the INPUT button.

Just in case this helps, if you don't have this (older) diagram yet, here it is....

That seemed to be the right combo. I was able to clearly see the r,g,b grids and align them properly. I was about to punch a hole through my non-glare screen because I did a bunch of work and didnt hit '7' (don't hit power on the remote! ;)
but I was quite pleased with the outcome - renewed my confidence in my set again. Even watched some movies without looking for faults... just enjoyed it knowing that I had gotten a better picture. :)

I thought that maybe there was a focus problem as well, but I think that the wacky convergence exaggarated what problem there is (if any) regarding focus. It looks pretty sharp.

I still have a little problem with a subtle 'smearing'.. white lettering on a lime backgoround (like on the 360) the last letters smear to the right, it's slight - I was looking for problems to be honest. It was much worse before the convergence adjustments. What causes this? some reflections inside the set? I have seen people install some kind of light absorbing material on the surface inside - would that be benificial?

I think I have an overscan problem still, the grid wasn't 'centered' per se, it was tighter to the right then the left. This might be part of the 360/720p game problem where the image is cut off on the sides.

The instructions I read (again for older models) seemed to imply that I had to do this for ants/vids, hd1,hd2, and dvi indivually? I did the convergence when the set was on component 2 (Hd2) but the DVI picture was improved as well I thought... ?

The instructions I read (again for older models) seemed to imply that I had to do this for ants/vids, hd1,hd2, and dvi indivually? I did the convergence when the set was on component 2 (Hd2) but the DVI picture was improved as well I thought... ?

Convergence is "universal" on your model ...

Convergence is "universal" on your model ...

Hi, Would my 46H84 be universal also? I haven't done convergence on my set or video inputs since I bought it! Still looks great to me some 2+ years later! I love this set. Great purchase. I would still like to see the PS3 on it but my 360 looks great. Thanks for input.

Hi, Would my 46H84 be universal also? .

Yep ... I reasonably sure that all the CRTs after (an including) the H(X)81 series (2001 models and beyond) used the 540p/1080i scan rates which means only one "global" 56pt convergence. There *may* be some geometry/centering/alignment registers that are zoom-mode, input a/o scan rate specific.

Hi

I have had a 65H83 for ahwhile now and just recently i noticed that it has a spot right on the bottom right corner of the screen. It appears to be coming right from the corner. A few days later i noticed that now there is also a blue larger spot coming down from the top left of the screen. I dont know much about tvs and was just wondering if anyone could help me out at trying to figure out how to get rid of these.
Thanks

Can you post a pic?

Hi guys it's been awhile.

I have a 65H84 and it started to have a problem last night. I was watching TV and noticed the picture was faded looking. All the colors are there but it looks like the COLOR has been run down to 10%. If I power it off for 15secs and back on it looks perfect then slowly (about 4-5min)the color fades away. Any thoughts?

Hi guys

I got a Toshiba 65H85

I got this issue when the camera moves from side to side in dark scenes. There is a lot of "garbage" in the image. It looks like some kind of pixelisation induced by the movement of the camera.

Also, I have never been satisfied a 100% by the blacks on my tv even if I have played with the brightness and contrast to death. Since CRTs are supposed to have the best blacks, I was wondering what could be wrong with my TV.
(A good example is 11 minutes into the Last Samurai...When Tom cruise looks at himself in the mirror....there is a lot of what seems to be compression artefacts in the black background....wondering if you guys see the same thing as I do)

I have tested many DVD players and it happens trough component or HDMI.

I would greatly appreciate any input and let me know if you need more detais.

thanks in advance

Michel

Hi guys

I got a Toshiba 65H85

I got this issue when the camera moves from side to side in dark scenes. There is a lot of "garbage" in the image. It looks like some kind of pixelisation induced by the movement of the camera.

Also, I have never been satisfied a 100% by the blacks on my tv even if I have played with the brightness and contrast to death. Since CRTs are supposed to have the best blacks, I was wondering what could be wrong with my TV.
(A good example is 11 minutes into the Last Samurai...When Tom cruise looks at himself in the mirror....there is a lot of what seems to be compression artefacts in the black background....wondering if you guys see the same thing as I do)

I have tested many DVD players and it happens trough component or HDMI.

I would greatly appreciate any input and let me know if you need more detais.

thanks in advance

Michel

Wthout knowing more, I'll assume you may have a couple problems:

The best way to improve blacks is by watching in a dark environment. You'd be surprised how even a little light streaming in can affect this. I spent $60 on blackout curtains and it improved my blacks greatly.

Get Avia or DVE and run it.

Pixelation won't come from a CRT based display unless it's being introduced by the scaler. Cheap upscaling DVD players won't be much better. Find a buddy with an Oppo (or just spend the $200) and give that a try.

Thanks a lot for the reply eugovector

For the light control, I have a very dark room...as dark as it gets. So that is not a problem.

For the player, I have tried many players and even the Toshiba A2 HD DVD player.

I see the same amount of pixelation on the Last Samurai HD DVD than on the DVD in the scene I described. It does the same thing with my panasonic DVD player.

I wonder if other people see the same thing I see in that scene.

Well, even though i promised a year ago that i was gonna take my 46H83's screen off and do a complete cleaning and manual focus and post pics here, i'm now going to be doing it next week. Had my set 3 years now and it's been great, pic still looks awesome. I know it's got to be filthy inside that box! If anyone's still interested in seeing pics of b4 and after dirty/clean optics focus knobs, etc, etc... let me know and i'll post 'em here or in my gallery.
I'm not going to re-stack the screens or remove the glare screen as i have total light control in this room and glare is a non-issue. I'm still amazed at how good this little set has held up, picture wise, compared to all but 1080p displays i have seen since i bought it 3-years ago. 1080p is the only thing i would ever consider replacing it with .

Well, even though i promised a year ago that i was gonna take my 46H83's screen off and do a complete cleaning and manual focus and post pics here, i'm now going to be doing it next week. Had my set 3 years now and it's been great, pic still looks awesome. I know it's got to be filthy inside that box! If anyone's still interested in seeing pics of b4 and after dirty/clean optics focus knobs, etc, etc... let me know and i'll post 'em here or in my gallery.
I'm not going to re-stack the screens or remove the glare screen as i have total light control in this room and glare is a non-issue. I'm still amazed at how good this little set has held up, picture wise, compared to all but 1080p displays i have seen since i bought it 3-years ago. 1080p is the only thing i would ever consider replacing it with .

Yes, I have a 65HX93, and would like to see the pics.

Rick

Hi guys

I got a Toshiba 65H85

I got this issue when the camera moves from side to side in dark scenes. There is a lot of "garbage" in the image. It looks like some kind of pixelisation induced by the movement of the camera.

Also, I have never been satisfied a 100% by the blacks on my tv even if I have played with the brightness and contrast to death. Since CRTs are supposed to have the best blacks, I was wondering what could be wrong with my TV.
(A good example is 11 minutes into the Last Samurai...When Tom cruise looks at himself in the mirror....there is a lot of what seems to be compression artefacts in the black background....wondering if you guys see the same thing as I do)

I have tested many DVD players and it happens trough component or HDMI.

I would greatly appreciate any input and let me know if you need more detais.

thanks in advance

Michel


I have the 65HX93 model. I just checked my version of Last Samurai, the mirror scene and saw no problems with anrtifacts at all. It is a fairly dark scene, but when he flashes back to the battlefield and you see the mist/smoke, it looks just fine. the rest of the scene looks good as well.

I'm using an OPPO DVD player via DVI.

(Not sure what all changes were made to the sets between the 93 an the 85 though

Rick

Thanks for the input Rickie

I got the problem fixed going through these boards (AVS forum rocks)

the problem was fixed simply by changing the value of BCUT in the service menu. I had noticed that some of my blacks had a blueish taint on them.

Crazy the difference a little change like that made.

Anyway I hope this post can help someone down on the future.

The problem with the Last Samurai is fixed.
Now my blacks are black, I am so happy that this problem is fixed.

Hello people!

I bought a Toshiba 51H84C Rear Projection back in April 2005. It's still under warrenty. I have a Toshiba DVD player and mainly play DVD's. I don't have cable. Anyway, the picture has recently degraded to a grainy look. I also noticed wavy-like white lines that move from the bottom of my screen upward. This also happens when i watch TV without the DVD. I played with touch focus, convergence, sharpness etc., and nothing. A technician came in today to check it out and he adjusted the convergence and nothing! Still grainy. He basically told me that I'm stuck with this! This is UNACCEPTABLE!

Can anyone help?

With many thanks,

Chris.

Well, i finally did the screen removal and cleaning on my 46H83 early today. Not as dirty as i thought for 3 years but dirty none the less. It's getting late so i'll try and post pics tomorrow.

As i have stated many times on this site before i am definitely no computer wiz. I'm going to attempt to put these photos on here now and i'll post my comments on them later or answer any ?'s you have if i can. These should also apply to the 46H84 which many of you also have as the sets are almost identical. Here goes nothing.
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r92/PITTDOG1/100_0335.jpg

Make sure to unplug set before cleaning!

WOW. it worked, ok here comes the rest 1 at a time.
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r92/PITTDOG1/100_0337.jpg


Make sure to unplug set before cleaning!

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r92/PITTDOG1/100_0338.jpg

My set was unplugged(no power) when this pic was taken, the flash makes it look like it was on. Make sure to unplug the set while cleaning!

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r92/PITTDOG1/100_0339.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r92/PITTDOG1/100_0341.jpg

Last one, i have a few more but they are kind of redundant to the rest of these.
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r92/PITTDOG1/100_0342.jpg

Just some quick comments as i am rushed on time this weekend. The last couple of pics show 2 of the 3 lenses mostly cleaned with 1 left untouched to show the difference in dust(and a couple of cobwebs). As i posted earlier i haven't done this to this set in the 3 years i've had it. Definitely worth doing as you can see. It really wasn't that difficult to do, just use caution and take your time. All told i probably spent 4 or 5 hours between removal, cleaning ,electro and manual focus and putting back together, and finally reconvergence and
another run through with DVE. I did clean the mirror thoroughly as well, removed the white sticker on the inside of the cabinet visible in 1 of the pics and CAREFULLY vaccumed out the sawdust and other crapola visible in the pics. Any ?'s or comments feel free to ask and i'll reply as soon as i can. Enjoy!!

Make sure to unplug set while cleaning!

How did you do the Mechanical Focus? I have had my screen off and always wanted to do a MF! Send me a PM. Thanks
57h84

Nice job pittdog,I own a hitachi CRT but your pics show the difference a cleaning will make!

How did you do the Mechanical Focus? I have had my screen off and always wanted to do a MF! Send me a PM. Thanks
57h84

Ditto here. Can anyone throw up a recent link to the guide for doing a cleaning, electro and manual focus (or give me a post number)? A month or two ago, I read through this whole thread once again, but thought that cleaning, and focus was only something the crazies did. Now that I understand that mere mortals can accomplish this, I have a project for the first snow we get (just not the know-how). Can anyone help with a link?

Thanks in advance,

Grateful owner of a Tosh 51H83

I want to try this on my 46h84 but I'm afraid to do it with out a guide.

I'll get back with you guys in the AM, about to go to work tonite. I'l try to post all details on both mechanical and electro focus. It's gonna be a loooooong post so bear with me. No technical babble from me, just the dyi'ers how to type of guide. It's not really that hard as long as you be careful and take your time. The usual "do so at your own risk" stuff applies here as i'm not responsible for any set but my own of course. But like i said earlier, it's not really to bad to do at all. See you guys in the morning.

I'll get back with you guys in the AM, about to go to work tonite. I'l try to post all details on both mechanical and electro focus. It's gonna be a loooooong post so bear with me. No technical babble from me, just the dyi'ers how to type of guide. It's not really that hard as long as you be careful and take your time. The usual "do so at your own risk" stuff applies here as i'm not responsible for any set but my own of course. But like i said earlier, it's not really to bad to do at all. See you guys in the morning.

Thanks

Any ?'s or comments feel free to ask and i'll reply as soon as i can. Enjoy!!

Do you have any instructions on how you got each piece off? I mean, where the clips or screws were located, and which held on which piece?

I'm still amazed at how good this little set has held up, picture wise, compared to all but 1080p displays i have seen since i bought it 3-years ago. 1080p is the only thing i would ever consider replacing it with .

I try to get some comfort in knowing that it displays 1080i, and not just 720p as many of the older fixed pixel sets do.

Hey pittdog1!

Will the cleaning be about the same for a 57H83? I have one that is about 3-4 years old and would love to do a through cleaning.

Do you have any instructions on how you got each piece off? I mean, where the clips or screws were located, and which held on which piece?,

Walt, good to hear from you again. You helped me out quite a bit getting familiar with this set when i first purchased it. If i remember correctly you have the 46HX83.
Should be the same deal then. Speaker panel just pulls off. I started at one side on top and get that clip loose 1st, then the bottom one on the same side, then the other side top and bottom and then the middle. This exposes the silver fascia behind the speaker grill. I believe there were 8 screws total holding this on, 2 above and below each speaker. These are torx(sp?) head screws, i don't know what # they are, but fairly small. All screws by the way, that go into wood on this set are the same size torx screw. All other screws that go into plastic are the same size screw only with a 1/4" hex head and phillips. After the bottom silver fascia is removed you can get to the screws holding the panels between the screen and the speaker section. The panel that has the drop down door with controls and the power button has 2 or 3 screws holding it in. They are all along the bottom of the panel. It has wires running into it obviously and not alot of slack. However, it doesn't weigh very much so i just rested it against the set. I did not disconnect these wires as you can see in the pics. The other panel is just for looks. Same deal here, 3 screws at the bottom(there are alot more mounting holes on all parts mentioned so far but not all of them had screws in them, so yours may have more or less screws to remove). NOW THIS IS IMPORTANT, there is a small piece of MDF type board right behind these 2 panels, it's about 1" tall and the same thickness by about 18" or so long. When removing the screws holding in these 2 panels that board is very loose (it actually comes out, and i took it out until i was done)and could fall out on its own, so i would remove it and set it aside. Now all that's left is removing the screws holding the screen in place. All the silver fascia around the screen and what's available to see from the front below the screen is all one piece. I removed the ones in front 1st, then the sides from behind the screen then the top ones from behind the screen. THIS IS IMPORTANT AS WELL. There is a wiring harness attached to the screen from the set. My harness is visible in the pics. The wires are red and the harness(plastic) is white. This needs to be disconnected to be able to get the screen off the set to store while you are working on your set. I was able to disconnect mine before removing the screen however there was a type of wire loom or holder that had to be opened to get the loose end out of the way. Would be a good idea to have another set of hands around for this part(i used my wife, yes, it was that simple).
We each grabbed an end of the screen and carried it over to a spot on the floor where i had laid a clean sheet down.Well, that's it for the screen removal, goes back together in the reverse order i just explained of course. And keep in mind that this is a do at your own risk project. I can't be held responsible for anyone's set but my own,but in saying that, it really wasnt that hard to do.
I did not restack my screens or remove the glare screen as i have total light control in this room. I only wiped the back of the screen off with a microfiber cloth, same type i use on the shiny front side. I'll post more about the focusing and cleaning either today or tomorrow, i've got a few things to get done here, hope this helps you guys out . :)

edit: In looking at my pictures again,you can see that MDF mentioned right below the 2 cpanels between the screen and speaker section. It actually comes loose when you remove the screws on the silver fascia at bottom of screen. Sorry about that.

Hey pittdog1!

Will the cleaning be about the same for a 57H83? I have one that is about 3-4 years old and would love to do a through cleaning.


Our sets are the same age(H83). The directions i used were from someone with a 5?H83(not sure ,fifty something) and they were almost exactly the same instructions i just posted above you. The only thing they didn't tell me about was the piece of wood that i mentioned above. Yours may have it to though so watch for it when you remove your control panel and the cosmetic panel between the screen and speaker section. :)

I'm thinking of running my GeForce 7300GT (in my pC) from DVI-to-HDMI to my 65H84. Any idea what I should set the resolution and refresh rate to in Windows?

Well i'm back again to continue after removing the screen instructions. For cleaning the lenses and mirror, i used a foam spray with a very generic label called "plastic cleaner".
I know it sounds strange but I've used it before on other things and older CRT sets and it works great. On the back of the can it says safe for use use on all transparent surfaces, glass, plastic, lucite, crt screens, lcd screens, camera lenses, mirrors etc... Will not streak, fog, smear or otherwise impede the surface of any of these materials. The stuff works great. I used white paper towels as has been recomended by Mr Bob(ISF'er on board here at AVS) and others as well. I have used microfiber towels in the past on other sets but they do leave alot of lint on the lenses and mirror and it takes a long time to try to get all the lint back off. White paper towels did a much better job. Spray on the Paper towels themselves, not on the lenses or mirror. Mr Bob explains his wiping technique at keohihdtv.com and in his "Don't dump your CRT" thread as well. It is basically a single direction wipe in a semi-circle around the lense. Switch to a new spot on the paper towels for each wipe so as not to scratch the lense with the dust you just picked up on the towel. None of my stuff was really "burned on" or anything hard to get off. It was more or less just laying on top of the lenses. Another thing i got from reading Mr bobs thughts on lense and mirror cleaning was to hold a bright flashlight(one of the newer LED types worked well for me)at an angle to the lenses and the mirror to see how dirty they really are. The mirror is harder to clean in my opinion then the lenses on the crt's. Many passes were required to clean the mirror satisfactorily as compared to the lenses which seemed perfect after about 3 cleanings around the lenses. After the lenses and mirror was cleaned to my satisfaction, i then vacuumed out the cabinet. I have one of those "Shark" little cannister vacs with a soft brush on the end. I stayed away from the guns on the set and just vaccumed up some sawdust and a little bit of other crud that was inside the set away from any electronics.
Now that the cleaning is complete, it's on to the focusing.
I've seen most reports that it is better to do the electro mechanical focus before the Manual focus, so that is what i did here. I've done the electro focus on this set before. It can be done without removing the screen. The screen needs to be on to do this focus. You can put it on with just 2 screws holding it at the top. When you set the screen back on the set it almost holds itself anyway but you wouldn't want it to fall obviously. The focus block is located in my pic on post #1780. It is that black box just to the left of the right speaker.
There are two rows of 3 knobs. One row says screen(DO NOT TOUCH THESE 3 KNOBS). The other row says focus and each knob has a corresponding color R G B. These focus knobs are the ones you will adjust to do the electro-mechanical focus. Before we go any further i'm going to post this now so i don't lose all this typing. I'll be right back with Service Menu instructions and the rest of the focusing info.

This is the procedure to get into the service menu on the H83/H84 sets. A few things i have noticed about getting into the service menu is that it seems better if you enter it while on an input that is receiving a signal. Otherwise your grid and menus seem to bounce around a bit. OK here we go.
1st turn the set on and make sure it's been on for about 20 minutes or longer to let the guns settle in and heat up(this should always be done before any kind of adjustments are made on your set from user controls to convergence to focusing etc....). Now that your set is ready follow this sequence, be right in front of the control panel on the set with remote control for the set in one hand. press mute 2X on remote. Press mute again and hold it down on the remote( make sure you are pointing the remote in the direction of the set's ir window which is located next to the power button.While holding the mute button down
press the menu button on the set and then release both buttons at the same time. An "S"
will appear on the screen. Now press the menu button again on the set. You are now in service menu. Now press the #7 key on the remote. This brings up the 56 pt grid. If you don't see a grid after preeing the "7" key then something went wrong. Don't panic and don't hit any other keys. Just hit the power button on the set and leave it off for a few seconds. When you turn it back on you should be out of service mode and all will be back to where you were before you started any thing. Once the grid is on your screen you can turn individual guns off to begin focusing each one. Press the "100" key on your remote and it turns on and off the red gun. Press "ENT" and this turns on and off the blue gun.
Pressing "0" turns the green gun on and off. So turn off the red and blue guns by pressing ent and 100. This leaves only the green gun on. Now find the knob on the focus block in the "FOCUS" row of knobs labeled "G" and turn it back and forth. You'l see the green grid go in and out of focus with each turn back and forth. Find the spot on the knob that is the most focused or "sharpest". Now the same thing can be done for the others(red and blue) by turning red on and green off and then blue on and red off. Now most of you all ready know that blue is slightly defocused on purpose. Go ahead and get it as focused as you can , but it will still not be as sharp as red and green. When all are done turn back on all 3 guns again and your grid should be white. You are now done with the electro- mechanical focus. I am very careful of "burn-in" on my set and that grid is quite bright so i wouldn't leave it up for more than 20 minutes or so at a time. To exit service mode just hit the power button on your set.
Manual focus is done using the same service menu instructions only instead of using the focus block, you are going to use the wingnuts located on the guns themselves. The hardest part of this is having to constantly move the screen to get to those guns and then looking at the screen to check the focus. You can make a mark where the wing nut is located at before you start as a reference in case you mess up the focus or can't see a difference. Using the above referenced service menu procedure turn off the guns leaving only the one to be focused on. Loosen that guns wingnut(check that guns focus 1st by looking at the grid on the screen) then move that gun about 1/8" and see what happens.
If it got worse,move it the other way 1/8". If that made it worse then where you 1st started from then somewhere inside that 1/4" of travel is the sweet spot. If the focus got better in one direction either way, keep moving in that direction until it starts geting worse.
This then tells you to go back the other way until you nail it. Doing this procedure i could get my blue gun pretty tight, but still left it slightly out of focus(all though less so than the way it was) for the reasons that have been mentioned in this forum and others. Once you get one focused in to your satisfaction, tighten that wingnut back down and you're done with it. Don't forget to put all the screws back in your screen and enjoy your set.
While we're here and now know how to get into the 56pt convergence we might as well explain how it works. This is a great way to fix minor geometry problems as well. Turn off the blue and red guns leaving only the green gun on. Your grid should be green. There is a little box or (cursor)that should be somewhere on the grid. By pressing the "5" key on your remote, it will make the cursor blink or remain solid with each stroke of the # "5" key. When it is blinking you can move it around the grid using the 2 4 6 8 keys on the remote. They act as direction keys 2 is up 8 is down 6 is right and 4 is left. When the cursor is solid(not blinking) it actually moves the grid in that location. Green is the gun that all others should be converged to. So it is important that these lines are straight and parallel
to each other. After you have them straight to your satisfaction, turn on the red gun by pressing the "100" button on the remote. Now press the # "3" button on the remote until the cursor color changes to red. Using the "5" key to change the cursor from blinking to solid go through the same routine lining the red grid up with the green one. When you are done with red, turn the blue gun on by hitting the "ent" key on the remote to converge blue to the red and green. Use the '3' key to change the cursor color to blue to move the blue lines. This will really sharpen up your picture and make it rival and surpass most of the newer tech sets out there. When you are done with the convergence press the 7 key on the remote. The screen and grid will kind of freak out for a second and then on the screen it will say" Please press touch Focus. Go ahead and push touch focus on your set(behind the flip down door on our sets). This will save all your convergence settings that were done in the service menu. After you hit touch focus, you will see lines scanning up and down your screen in both directions and in all 3 colors. This goes on for 5 or 10 seconds and then another script comes on the screen saying touch focus saved or setting saved(something to that effect) at which time you can shut your set off with the power button on the set. Afer a few seconds you can turn it back on and you will be out of service mode and back to normal.
Like i said a few times all ready, this stuff is all "at your own risk". There are things you should not mess with in service mode and when doing the cleaning in the set and unplugging that harness make sure the set is unplugged(common sense i know, but we never know who we're dealing with over the net). Don't forget about not leaving that grid up for long periods of time as well. If you are doing the convergence and can't get it done in one shot, turn all the guns back on, hit 7 , and save to touch focus and it will at least save the work you started. Watch a little bit of TV(even if the convergence is messed up because you didn't get it finished) just to let the phosphors in the guns even out a bit, and then go back at it again. GL all and any other ?'s just ask and i'll answer them if i can.

One more thing to mention again, If you think you did something wrong at any time, just hit the power button on the set, it will remove you from the service menu and back where you were before you entered service menu.

The only thing I'll mention is that my touch focus seems to make the situation much worse. I puts everything way out of whack (may just be something broken on my TV). However, if you push touch focus and everything is out of focus, try adjusting it back into focus with the 9 point (83 series) or 56 point user menu convergence. Doing this focused everything back up for me, and after going back into 56 point in the service menu to verify that everything stayed in focus, I exited without hitting touch focus.

So, two questions. 1) does anyone elses touchfocus really screw up their picture?

And 2) User menu convergence seems to need to be set for each "picture mode" (Theaterwide, Full, etc.). Does anyone know if Service menu covergence is global,or does it need to be set for each picture mode as well?

Thanks,

Marshall

What all I read, back before I got my set, was to never touch the touchfocus button. So I never did. :D

The service mode convergence (56pt) needs to be done for each picture mode, just like the user mode convergence (9pt). It is kind-of a pain to have to exit service mode just to switch picture modes.

I need to make one little correction here.

It was reported that my cleaning technique involves wetting the paper, not the lens.

Not the case. Has never been my technique.

The lens is matted with years' worth of gritty particulates, and the method I use involves getting that entire surface wet directly, so that those gritty particulates will be raised off the surface and immersed into the wetness, BEFORE being moved. Otherwise you risk scratching the lens surfaces, which is permanent.

Foam is definitely the best way to not have liquid penetrate to the lower lenses in the stack and fog them up. But any decent cleaning agent will work, when it comes to the lenses. I do use non-shop paper towels - shop towels have lanolin in them, which we DON'T want - and as mentioned, the curling of the paper as you do your SINGLE swipe is very critical, to lift the grit OFF the lens, not grind it down into it. Be sure to scrunch up the paper before doing the ONE soft swipe, too, and that your hands are ultra clean, so you don't transfer any hand grease onto the paper. ONE swipe on each pass, with NO RUBBING, when it comes to the lenses.

On the mirror, I usually need 5 passes before I am happy with it, also.

When doing the mirror, be sure to NOT use anything with ammonia in it. HDreadys use first surface mirrors, and you don't want to be mixing ammonia with aluminum.


Too bad the pix didn't show that strong LED flashlight coming in from the side. It would have been a great showing of the huge amount of dust, lint, smoke, etcetcetc these things gather over the years, as the powerful dust magnets the HV turns them into. For more about that, go to my website, and look in the Nuts and Bolt section.


ALL CRT based RPTVs need optics cleaning on a regular basis, because of this HV ionization thing going on inside them every minute they are powered up.


Mr Bob

What all I read, back before I got my set, was to never touch the touchfocus button. So I never did. :D

The service mode convergence (56pt) needs to be done for each picture mode, just like the user mode convergence (9pt). It is kind-of a pain to have to exit service mode just to switch picture modes.


I believe the older Tosh's needed each aspect ratio to be done separately and the newer ones didn't - you do one you do them all. But this is only in 480i.

But with the proliferation of HD, very little 480i gets watched anyway anymore, in my experience.


Touch Focus, like any auto convergence, only gets it close, and is made for Joe Sixpack, who sits miles away from his set anyway.

Anybody wishing for the best his set has to offer, needs to do the internal sm point convergence twice, maybe more, and let it go at that. Do the Touch Focus on first pass, let it mess things up, then do a fine tuning on point again and DON'T hit it again, while in the service menu. Then stay away from it in user as well.

It's not for videophiles. No auto convergence system is, even on the really expensive ceiling pjs, equipped with actual cameras.


Mr Bob

MrBob, thank you for your clarifications on your techniques and that's why i referred you over here, to be able to clear up anything i may have said wrong about your techniques in doing this cleaning procedure. MrBob is well known around here and other sites for his ISF prowess and being a total "guru" on cleaning procedures. That being said though, he is an ISF certified calibrator. We are not. So i was a little reluctant about spraying directly on the lenses themselves, even being a foam, about any running inside the lenses and fogging them up. I was surprised the dust lifted so easily off the lenses as i expected after 3 years for it to be adhered on there. But that is why there are ISF'ers out there, to do the stuff we can't or don't want to try. About the touch focus, i've always saved it to touch focus and had no problems with it. MichaelTLV and JohnnyG are well known Tosh calibrators here and i'm pretty sure that they have confirmed as well that touch focus does indeed save the settings for convergence. I believe they have stated so in this thread somewhere. Now, that being said, it may take a few times to get it all the way memorized but it does retain it.
I also very rarely use the touch focus and opt for going in and doing it through the SM anyway. You can't just hit the touch focus without saving anything to it from the service menu convergence as that will just mess up your SM convergence that you worked so hard on. And now that Mr Bob mentioned it, i wish i would have taken a pic or 2 of the mirror with flashlight off to the side. Don't know how well the pics would have shown the dust and "smokiness" on the mirror, but it sure shows up to your eyes! I hope all this helps somebody out and like i said i'm no pro so take my stuff for what it's worth, but i'm very happy with the results and confident that all i have posted in this entire thread has helped my set look it's best.

I'd also like to take the time to reccomend to all of you that own these sets(or any other CRT RPTV)to take a look at Mr Bob's thread titled "Don't dump your CRT RPTV". It's great reading.

I'd also like to take the time to reccomend to all of you that own these sets(or any other CRT RPTV)to take a look at Mr Bob's thread titled "Don't dump your CRT RPTV". It's great reading.


Anyone reading this who owns a Pioneer HDready, I have not only been active in trying my best to save all the CRT RPTVs out there that I can, I have been esp. interested in saving those of Pioneer owners whose sets also need repairs before any calibration can even be considered.

Pioneer owners have been the most responsive to what I have been saying about keeping this genre alive - and incredibly well, and staying brand new looking - long after the fixed pixel retailers would like us to.

That thread is the one about the problems with the Pioneer 510's.

Thanks again for mentioning me here. Glad to help.

;)

Mr Bob

Bob or Pittdog,

Can you tell me where to get the foam cleaner you use to clean the lenses?

Also, I saw athread a while back about lining the inside of the TV cab with a darker fabric to further prevent interior refelctions. Any experience with this that would make it worth the hassle?

I figure, while I've got my 51H83 open and apart, I might as well tackle everything I can. And I'm right with you Bob. I've set up a couple LCD and DLPs for friends, and even after adjusting w/ Avia or DVE, and in some cases trying to adjust the red push by eye (I know, I know... butI wrote down the original values just in case), they still pale in comparison to the PQ of my Toshiba (although with admittedly less of a footprint and better daylight performance)

Bob or Pittdog,

Can you tell me where to get the foam cleaner you use to clean the lenses?

Also, I saw athread a while back about lining the inside of the TV cab with a darker fabric to further prevent interior refelctions. Any experience with this that would make it worth the hassle?

I figure, while I've got my 51H83 open and apart, I might as well tackle everything I can. And I'm right with you Bob. I've set up a couple LCD and DLPs for friends, and even after adjusting w/ Avia or DVE, and in some cases trying to adjust the red push by eye (I know, I know... butI wrote down the original values just in case), they still pale in comparison to the PQ of my Toshiba (although with admittedly less of a footprint and better daylight performance)


What I use is Sprayway. Tried a substitute foam aerosol I got from Home Depot in a pinch once and it was not even close. Had to give it away, it was not usable for this purpose. Glass Plus is excellent, but you gotta watch the "drip/sink-in to internal lenses/deeper lenses fog up" factor.

The duvetyne op for damping internal reflections is good and worth the hour it takes to do it, but pales in comparison to the results I get for seeing detail in dark areas with professional grade level optics cleaning. On my cals, I just darken all reflective areas in there with a big thick, black Sharpie-type black marker pen.

The combo can't be beat.

I am available for paid phone consultation on any and all subjects concerning calibration, not the least of which is regular and deeper optics cleaning.

Please contact me at my regular email address rather than pm'ing me, tho, as my pm mailbox is starting to bulge and is approaching its limits here on the AVS.


Mr Bob

I got mine from a liquidation store here in KC. The description on the can is posted above. Any foam type plastic or glass cleaner that does not contain harsh chemicals or ammonia and says safe for camera optics and plastics should work for you. If you want i'll see if they still carry the stuff i've got(i think they do) and i can send you a can of it if you'd like. I think it was only like 2 or 3 dollars and its a good size can. Let me know if i can help.

Touch Focus works brilliantly on my 46H83. It was pretty lousy on the H81's, and so-so on the H82's though. On the H81's, it took 3 or more "touch ups" before Touch Focus became relatively accurate. For the H82's, it either works first time, or requires one or two touch ups. On the H83's and newer, it usually works great the first time.

When I do a calibration, I always save to Touch Focus (even if it takes 3+ times to get it right) because it's a great benefit to the customer.

This is at least one ISF'er who agrees that the touch focus will save the SM convergence and owns(owned) the same set as i have. :)

Hi guys. I have a Toshiba 51HX93 that has had the top left corner out of focus since I got it two years ago. I've recently decided to investigate why and am a bit stumped.
I know it's not a convergence issue, because when touchfocus runs and it displayes the vert/horz lines, each line is out of focus in that area only, The rest of the line is fine.
I suspect it could be something mechanical in nature, but not sure.
Do the service menus allow for different focus at different points on the display or is it all global?
Any help would b apreciated. Thanks

Hi guys. I have a Toshiba 51HX93 that has had the top left corner out of focus since I got it two years ago. I've recently decided to investigate why and am a bit stumped.
I know it's not a convergence issue, because when touchfocus runs and it displayes the vert/horz lines, each line is out of focus in that area only, The rest of the line is fine.
I suspect it could be something mechanical in nature, but not sure.
Do the service menus allow for different focus at different points on the display or is it all global?
Any help would b apreciated. Thanks

Yes, it sounds like you need to try the 56 point covergence.

Hi guys. I have a Toshiba 51HX93 that has had the top left corner out of focus since I got it two years ago. I've recently decided to investigate why and am a bit stumped.
I know it's not a convergence issue, because when touchfocus runs and it displayes the vert/horz lines, each line is out of focus in that area only, The rest of the line is fine.
I suspect it could be something mechanical in nature, but not sure.
Do the service menus allow for different focus at different points on the display or is it all global?
Any help would b apreciated. Thanks


If it's convergence and not focus, you could try the user 9 point for that area.

Whenever I do a cal on a Tosh, I first have to make sure the 9 points are correct, because they factor in to whatever gets done in the sm. If they are all curved up and I have not straightened them out in user first, there's not a snowball's chance in hell I'll be able to get it right in the sm version of the point sys.

Even if it means the lines are further apart in sm, that's correctable. They need to be STRAIGHT and parallel to each other in user, first.


Mr Bob

Yes, it sounds like you need to try the 56 point covergence.


No it's not a convergence issue, it's a focus issue in the top left corner. Check the description in the first post.

If it's convergence and not focus, you could try the user 9 point for that area.

Whenever I do a cal on a Tosh, I first have to make sure the 9 points are correct, because they factor in to whatever gets done in the sm. If they are all curved up and I have not straightened them out in user first, there's not a snowball's chance in hell I'll be able to get it right in the sm version of the point sys.

Even if it means the lines are further apart in sm, that's correctable. They need to be STRAIGHT and parallel to each other in user, first.


Mr Bob

It's not convergence, it's focus. When touchfocus runs, each color line is unfocused in the top left corner. Because there is only one color during this proc. there is no convergence issue. Any other ideas?

I have a question about electro mechanical focus and/or Manual focus.
Why would you ever need to do these? Aren't those knobs pretty much on tight and secure from the factory. How would they ever come loose to cause a shift in focus? I can see the need to clean the tv and to fix convergence when it drifts but not this.
Thanks.

It's not convergence, it's focus. When touchfocus runs, each color line is unfocused in the top left corner. Because there is only one color during this proc. there is no convergence issue. Any other ideas?


Good observation.

The only CRT triple guns that have independent focusing in different areas of the screen are very expensive ceiling pjs. CRT RPTVs do not have any such capability.

Sounds like it must be a scheimpflug issue, and if on all 3 colors, would be ineffective aiming of the flat plane of the lens compared to the CRT face, on all 3 guns.

This has happened on the whole left side of the 510 series of Pio, but only on blue. I have not seen it that bad on anything else.

It could be what is wrong here, and you could experiment by removing one of the lenses while the other 2 are covered, and defocus it mechanically on a grid, so that the grid lines are at least 1" thick.

Then change that angle and see if the thickness of any of the lines change, at any various parts of the screen.

If they are not all the same width/thickness, then there is scheimpflug error. If they are, there is none.

All set of optics are not equal. Could be that Tosh used optics that are just not completely right all the way out to the corners. At its pricepoint, I would not be surprised.

In convergence, the best we can do is get it tits'd out all the way out to about an inch and a half from the sides after overscan reduction, in RPTVs. That's the limit of the technology, in RPTVs.

There are all sorts of ways to hit your head on the limits of the technology in CRT RPTVs - in all consumer grade RPTVs. If it is not life-threatening from your normal viewing position, you may just have to live with it.

Wish I could be more encouraging...

:(


Mr Bob

I have a question about electro mechanical focus and/or Manual focus.
Why would you ever need to do these? Aren't those knobs pretty much on tight and secure from the factory. How would they ever come loose to cause a shift in focus? I can see the need to clean the tv and to fix convergence when it drifts but not this.
Thanks.


We need to do these because consumer grade RPTVs are produced for Joe Sixpack, not the videophile, even tho they could be. At the pricepoint that the masses will pay, tho, that will never happen.

So we have to take a factory grade set and do the rest of the fine tuning necessary to turn it into a videophile grade set.

Think of a run of Lamborginis that had to be sold for half what they usually charge for them. The first thing that would go out the window would be the fine tuning of that amazing engine.


Mr Bob

Ok Mr Bob..That makes sense. So basically these TV are not as focused as they can be coming from the factory. I thought otherwise.
Thanks for the response.

Ok Mr Bob..That makes sense. So basically these TV are not as focused as they can be coming from the factory. I thought otherwise.
Thanks for the response.


Right. I kept finding this, over and over, primarily on my own sets at first, then out there as well.

That's when I scratched my head real hard, stared at my set real hard, and came up with the Cantilever Technique, which has been zeropointing the optical focus ever since, every time, on every color.


Mr Bob

Right. I kept finding this, over and over, primarily on my own sets at first, then out there as well.

That's when I scratched my head real hard, stared at my set real hard, and came up with the Cantilever Technique, which has been zeropointing the optical focus ever since, every time, on every color.


Mr Bob

Did I miss an explaination of what the Cantilever technique is? Is it that move that Sholin Monks use to kill you with a single blow?

hey mr bob (or anyone else who can help!!)

I have a question if someone has a second to help out. I have a 57h83 and something very strange is happening--oftentimes when panning across the screen (or change in light to dark) the *whole* screen becomes ridden with vertical 1/2 or so inch (apart) bars that disappear when the scene stops panning or the change in brightness or color stabilizes--they are not colores lines per se but just darkish depressions at regular interval measurements across the screen. This is extremely annoying when it happens. It happens on all inputs and adjusting the convergence (i.e. non-user menu) does not seem to make a difference. any idea what this could be and how to fix it--no one in my area will come out to look at it (the person toshiba instists is the local authorized repair guy states that he is too far away to make house calls in my area).

If someone can help or has any ideas I could potentially try to post a picture...

thanks in advance if anyone can help!

Did I miss an explaination of what the Cantilever technique is? Is it that move that Sholin Monks use to kill you with a single blow?


The CT uses moving the view screen instead of the lens, to check the optical focus of the lens. Ideally the lens is focused best with the view screen at rest, at where it has been installed. If you find that when you pull the screen out or push it in the focus gets BETTER than when at rest where it always is, you know you have some work to do on the mechanical focusing of that lens.

This allows you to check and double-check the focusing of each of your lenses without ever moving it, which in the process always changes where it used to be before being moved. Even when marked, the tiniest of changes in its position change the focus, and also the size, of the image in question. When the size of any color's image is changed relative to the other 2 because of its being out of focus and needing to be refocused, once refocused to proper clarity the convergence has to be completely redone on that color.

If it passes the CT test with flying colors OOB on all 3 lenses, you know you don't have to change anything and yet are in perfect focus on all 3 lenses. It allows for testing without changing anything, as far as the setting of the lens's wingnut goes.

This can also be used with front pjs, but usually in only one direction, unless the screen floats, allowing for push and pull movements of it, in which case checks of both directions are possible. If the screen is fixed, at least one direction can be checked via using a white sheet of paper by putting it up against the screen, then pulling it back and seeing where the focus starts going out - or coming in.


Mr Bob

Denophile, hard to tell from your description, but it sounds like what we use to call "jail-bars" earlier on in this thread. I don't see them very often on programming material but on a solid grey screen i can see them. They are not 1/2" intervals on mine though, more like an inch and a half spacing between them. They have definitely gotten lighter since the set was new. As far as i know a fix for this was never found, but it's not really that bothersome to most(as opposed to the dreaded white line that luckily never appeared on my set and a fix by Tosh was found for). Alot of LCD rear projection sets exhibited something very similar to these vertical grey lines on them as well. Not sure if this is what you are noticing or not.

Denophile, hard to tell from your description, but it sounds like what we use to call "jail-bars" earlier on in this thread. I don't see them very often on programming material but on a solid grey screen i can see them. They are not 1/2" intervals on mine though, more like an inch and a half spacing between them. They have definitely gotten lighter since the set was new. As far as i know a fix for this was never found, but it's not really that bothersome to most(as opposed to the dreaded white line that luckily never appeared on my set and a fix by Tosh was found for). Alot of LCD rear projection sets exhibited something very similar to these vertical grey lines on them as well. Not sure if this is what you are noticing or not.


That does sound like it--it may be more like an inch or perhaps a bit more--I haven't measured. Sorry to hear there hasn't been a solution--I just went back and tried to elicit it by playing some disks/scenes where it was apparent before and it doesn't seem to be doing it tonight but I just got home and maybe it does it more when it is more warmed up...anyway thanks for the post/help!

actually something else came to mind--given the similarity of the white line issue and the "jail bar" (having gone back and searched the thread for this--sounds almost like an iteration of the white line issue over the entire screen except perhaps not as intense), has anyone tried applying the white line solution to the jail bar issue to see if it fixes it? I was also hoping that perhaps having it calibrated (if I could bribe someone to do it around here (everyone has their price :p )) might somehow solve this nebulous problem but I am sure someone has tried that...

I own the 46H84. Is there anyway to see what resolution is being displayed? I can't find a Display button or anything like that, thanks.

PittDog,

Thanks for posting those pics and the narrative. A quick question, can the lenses be cleaned without removing the screeen? I'm on a one-man operation here (wife would have a heart attack if she saw me taking apart the TV). (65HX93). I did a very tentative wiping with a microfiber cloth once, after removing the speaker grill, but never went any further, and didn't really want to rub very hard at all, since I didn't want to scratch the lenses.

Thanks again.

Rick

PittDog,

Thanks for posting those pics and the narrative. A quick question, can the lenses be cleaned without removing the screeen? I'm on a one-man operation here (wife would have a heart attack if she saw me taking apart the TV). (65HX93). I did a very tentative wiping with a microfiber cloth once, after removing the speaker grill, but never went any further, and didn't really want to rub very hard at all, since I didn't want to scratch the lenses.

Thanks again.

Rick


If you'll shine your flashlight on the lenses from the side while you look straight across at them from the front, you'll see what you missed. NO dry method will work after the gunk has settled on there and stayed on there for years.

Find a time when the wife's not home for the afternoon, and do it right.


Mr Bob

I think he's saying that he'll have to find an extra set of hands as well.

I think he's saying that he'll have to find an extra set of hands as well.

I'm sure you're right that he thinks that, but no. No extra hands are necessary. I have done this myself countless times, and no it doesn't take any extra hands, from the wife or anybody else.


Mr Bob

Just reviewing the service manual and wondering where one finds a white luster signal to adjust the white barance...LOL

You would think that after all these years companies like Toshiba would have people writing the manuals in English.

I'm sure you're right that he thinks that, but no. No extra hands are necessary. I have done this myself countless times, and no it doesn't take any extra hands, from the wife or anybody else.


Mr Bob


The extra set of hands will be needed to remove the screen (65" might be a handful for one guy) And while holding the screen there is that wiring harness that needs to be disconnected between the screen and the set itself. I haven't seen the 65" model apart so i can only assume that the harness is the same way.
My screen seemed pretty sturdy taken off in 1 piece, but it's also only a 46" screen. I would imagine that the 65" is a little flimsier just due to the size of it and would need the extra support that 2 people could offer. I think Mr Bob's reference to "no extra hands" is referring to the cleaning process and he is correct. The screen really needs to be completely removed to be able to do a good cleaning. Otherwise you can't clean the mirror or really be able to see what you are doing on the lenses very well.

As to the previous poster who asked about displaying what resolution is being displayed on the set. These sets H83/H84 only display 540P or 1080i. It is my understanding that you can choose either of these in the user menu(2nd page of it) under "Display Format". However, HD meaning 720P or 1080i is still going to be displayed at 1080i even if you chose 540P. I leave mine on 540P as test patterns from DVE have shown that when i feed my set a progressive scan signal from my Yamaha DVD player and my display set at 1080i it introduces some artifacts or noise on certain patterns. 540P is much smoother. :)

I'm sure you're right that he thinks that, but no. No extra hands are necessary. I have done this myself countless times, and no it doesn't take any extra hands, from the wife or anybody else.


Mr Bob


I'll have to take a look at this again then. I didn't think I was going to be able to do a good job, just thought it might be better than doing nothing. I'll look at the screen again to see about taking it off alone.

Thanks

The extra set of hands will be needed to remove the screen (65" might be a handful for one guy) And while holding the screen there is that wiring harness that needs to be disconnected between the screen and the set itself. I haven't seen the 65" model apart so i can only assume that the harness is the same way.
My screen seemed pretty sturdy taken off in 1 piece, but it's also only a 46" screen. I would imagine that the 65" is a little flimsier just due to the size of it and would need the extra support that 2 people could offer. I think Mr Bob's reference to "no extra hands" is referring to the cleaning process and he is correct. The screen really needs to be completely removed to be able to do a good cleaning. Otherwise you can't clean the mirror or really be able to see what you are doing on the lenses very well.

As to the previous poster who asked about displaying what resolution is being displayed on the set. These sets H83/H84 only display 540P or 1080i. It is my understanding that you can choose either of these in the user menu(2nd page of it) under "Display Format". However, HD meaning 720P or 1080i is still going to be displayed at 1080i even if you chose 540P. I leave mine on 540P as test patterns from DVE have shown that when i feed my set a progressive scan signal from my Yamaha DVD player and my display set at 1080i it introduces some artifacts or noise on certain patterns. 540P is much smoother. :)


I'll take anohter look. I'm still a bit leary about trying to take off screen alone, but then again, I can look at least. Maybe this summer I can draft someone to help.

Thanks again.
Rick

The extra set of hands will be needed to remove the screen (65" might be a handful for one guy) And while holding the screen there is that wiring harness that needs to be disconnected between the screen and the set itself. I haven't seen the 65" model apart so i can only assume that the harness is the same way.
My screen seemed pretty sturdy taken off in 1 piece, but it's also only a 46" screen. I would imagine that the 65" is a little flimsier just due to the size of it and would need the extra support that 2 people could offer. I think Mr Bob's reference to "no extra hands" is referring to the cleaning process and he is correct. The screen really needs to be completely removed to be able to do a good cleaning. Otherwise you can't clean the mirror or really be able to see what you are doing on the lenses very well.




Hm. I have seen many sets be strung with the auto converge sensors, and yes many have been really "stringy" - and thus clingy! - when the screen is freed up and removed. And yes, I am a big guy, so a 65" is not too big for me, but I do have that 6' tall advantage going for me. Indeed, tallness stature may very well be a factor here. Even I have welcomed the assistance of the owner at times, in this endeavor. Not because of the weight or bulkiness, but because of that stringiness.

If you are alone on this, you might want to try to disco the stringiness before you remove the frame. This is usually done via inline connectors beneath the big plastic plate below, that exposes the CRT necks and focus block (leave focus block ALONE unless you know what you are doing!). On Hits it needs to be disco'd inside the optical cavity itself, which yes, makes having 2 people at it very handy. I have not done a Tosh recently, so can't say whether this is possible on them. But if you can disco that stringiness, that will allow you to lift off the screen and put it elsewhere so you can really get in there unimpeded.

If you are going to be cleaning the optics, you indeed must have room to move in there, as the optics cleaning must be done very thoroughly, if you wish the ultimate benefits of it. And they ARE worth it! Just dragging a microfibre cloth over the lenses lightly will help in the first 6-12 months of your unit's life, but will do very little good after that.


Mr Bob

If you are alone on this, you might want to try to disco the stringiness before you remove the frame. This is usually done via inline connectors beneath the big plastic plate below, that exposes the CRT necks and focus block (leave focus block ALONE unless you know what you are doing!).

Mr Bob


I thought the focusblock adjustments were pretty straight forward as long as you use the ones marked "focus" and stay away from those marked "screen". Is electrostatic focusing a risky proposition, and exactly what do the "screen" controls do?

I thought the focusblock adjustments were pretty straight forward as long as you use the ones marked "focus" and stay away from those marked "screen". Is electrostatic focusing a risky proposition, and exactly what do the "screen" controls do?


Many times DIYers go on automatic and reach for the wrong trimpot. I have done it myself.

The screen controls set the bias of your CRT grids that control your grayscale. Altering even one of them can cause you to need a great amount of relignment of your set's grayscale, if you don't get it back exactly where it was before.

Many sets have auto centering of these pots, which requires disabling for the alignment/trimming to go correctly. As such, it may be impossible to get it back to where it was before without disabling the auto section.

The blue focus affects the blues in your whites.

Just stay away unless you really know what you are doing - or really feel lucky - is my advice.


Mr Bob

I'll put a piece of tape over the screen controls to make sure I don't accidentally turn one. And I'll mark the settings of all pots before begining.

Most other accounts have said that making sure your electrostatic focus is set (with the blue slightly defocused), and then moving on to a manual focus of the lenses helps dramatically. Is it your opinion that this improvement is not worth the risk?

Many times DIYers go on automatic and reach for the wrong trimpot. I have done it myself.

The screen controls set the bias of your CRT grids that control your grayscale. Altering even one of them can cause you to need a great amount of relignment of your set's grayscale, if you don't get it back exactly where it was before.

Many sets have auto centering of these pots, which requires disabling for the alignment/trimming to go correctly. As such, it may be impossible to get it back to where it was before without disabling the auto section.

The blue focus affects the blues in your whites.

Just stay away unless you really know what you are doing - or really feel lucky - is my advice.


Mr Bob

eugo, it's really not risky, just don't touch the knobs in the row labeled "screen". Both rows are clearly labeled. I got blue as tight as i could via electro as it would not go as sharp as red or green. I've also heard that getting blue too tightly focused manually can effect grey scale as well. So as i stated earlier, i left it slightly defocused and noticed no color shift at all. The electro-focus is really quite simple and not risky at all as far as i'm concerned and this wan't the first time i had done it. By the way it didn't really change at all from when i had done it previously(can't remember how long ago, but it had been a while). You really don't even need to mark the focus knobs as it is pretty easy to move the knob both ways and see the lines go in and out of focus by turning them. Get 'em as tight as you can via electro and it will make a pretty big difference in your pic if it wasn't very focused to begin with. Mine really wasn't very far off at all, but i did get them better than where they were before.

I'll put a piece of tape over the screen controls to make sure I don't accidentally turn one. And I'll mark the settings of all pots before begining.

Most other accounts have said that making sure your electrostatic focus is set (with the blue slightly defocused), and then moving on to a manual focus of the lenses helps dramatically. Is it your opinion that this improvement is not worth the risk?


If when I put up the 50IRE grids from AVIA and can plainly see the scanlines in the hor grid lines, I can dispense with the e focus, and not touch the F Bl at all.

That's what I did on my last cal, because no ef was needed.

That way I could not get the trimpot sets mixed up.

If your gridlines do not show their scanlines when separated apart from each other, esp. after having done the optical focusing - I recommend the Cantilever Technique for that - then maybe you have to take that chance. I always do, whenever necessary.

It doesn't matter which focus you do first, the ef or the optical, tho you may have to go back and forth before you're thru. But if you do the optical first, you may be able to then skip the ef.


Mr Bob

I'm having a tech come and look at my 46h84 thats still under warranty tomorrow.The problem is when I go to the convergence grid the red and blue lines bend on the edge of the screen and I can't line them up.has anyone else had this problem.

I'm having a tech come and look at my 46h84 thats still under warranty tomorrow.The problem is when I go to the convergence grid the red and blue lines bend on the edge of the screen and I can't line them up.has anyone else had this problem.

A little bit of this is common on all CRT RPTVs. If it is only an inch at the farthest edges, you probably can't do much about it. Luckily what we watch is usually only in the middle section of the screen.

This is one reason they overscan these sets, to hide this kind of thing.


Mr Bob

A little bit of this is common on all CRT RPTVs. If it is only an inch at the farthest edges, you probably can't do much about it. Luckily what we watch is usually only in the middle section of the screen.

This is one reason they overscan these sets, to hide this kind of thing.


Mr Bob

The tech came to look a my tv today and he told me the same thing.Even with this problem it still puts out a great picture,I guess it might be time to have it calibrated.

The tech came to look a my tv today and he told me the same thing.Even with this problem it still puts out a great picture,I guess it might be time to have it calibrated.


I am at your service for calibrations.


Mr Bob

I've searched through this thread but can't find anyone with this issue I'm having. I'm using the tv's speakers as my center channel and find them to be louder than my surrounds. I've set the center channel volume (through my receivers settings) to the lowest volume. Has anyone else experienced this? The speakers seem to be fine using then as normal speakers (i.e. not as a center channel). I'm also using optical out from my Sony receiver.

There is also a lot of static noise coming out of the front speakers as well, but I think this might be due to my speaker wire.

Thanks,
Mark

Mr. Bob,

My Tosh 46H84 is still under warranty, and I'm thinking of calling Sears (where I bought it) to have them do a cleaning (it's about 2 years old), since I don't have the nerve to do it myself. I do work in the service menu, but I'm reluctant to start taking things apart. The picture quality is great, but it's in a dusty room.

My question is, from your experience, would you trust them to do a good job, or could it screw things up? I'm guessing their training might leave something to be desired, and my budget wouldn't allow for a complete calibration at this time .

Thanks,
Ted

There is also a lot of static noise coming out of the front speakers as well, but I think this might be due to my speaker wire.

Thanks,
Mark

Is it static or hum? If it's hum, try disconnecting components (starting with the co-ax cable coming from the wall, until it goes away. If it doesn't, then it's probably your receiver.

If it's static, new cables from monoprice are in order.

I would say it's static. The cable I'm using is just too thin. I'll need to pick up a thicker one which would probably be better shielded. I'm not too sure if that's going to solve the problem of the center channel volume being a lot louder. I might need to pick up a new receiver too. :)

Mr. Bob,

My Tosh 46H84 is still under warranty, and I'm thinking of calling Sears (where I bought it) to have them do a cleaning (it's about 2 years old), since I don't have the nerve to do it myself. I do work in the service menu, but I'm reluctant to start taking things apart. The picture quality is great, but it's in a dusty room.

My question is, from your experience, would you trust them to do a good job, or could it screw things up? I'm guessing their training might leave something to be desired, and my budget wouldn't allow for a complete calibration at this time .

Thanks,
Ted


I would not trust ANY ESP warranty field tech to know what they are doing around CRT RPTV optics cleaning. I just had a Hitachi in Vegas where the tech had replaced all 3 guns, and when I was called upon the scene just after CES to do a thorough calibration including deeper optics cleaning, I found that all 3 guns had been scratched to hell in there, on their coolant covers. It was no use cleaning the covers - adding a little moisture to the scratches made them disappear, and they reappeared when it had dried. When the coolant covers are simply dirty, adding a little moisture from the tip of your thumb cleans that small area and it stays clean after it has dried.

It is in the process of being regunned AGAIN, as we speak.

Those lenses in there are plastic, and the mirror is a first surface mirror, where it is NOT the glass that does the reflecting nor needs the cleaning. It's the super thin aluminum surface ON that glass that does the reflecting.

In a word, no. Have it done professionally, or sign up for a direct phone consultation with me and I'll hold your hand all thru the process, so you won't screw anything up. I have been doing RPTV optics cleaning for more than 20 years, and won't steer you wrong.

Observe a before and after shot of a 7 year old Pioneer, shot same day before and after one of my calibrations. Be sure and expand your copy of each pic to fit your screen size to the max.


Mr Bob

I would say it's static. The cable I'm using is just too thin. I'll need to pick up a thicker one which would probably be better shielded. I'm not too sure if that's going to solve the problem of the center channel volume being a lot louder. I might need to pick up a new receiver too. :)

You can always add resistance in series with your speaker wires, to add dummy load and thus soak up some of the speakers' efficiency. Less efficient means less loud. I would start with a big 5 or 10 watt 2 ohm resistor in there, in series with one of the 2 leads of each of the pairs of your speaker wire. Add or subract an ohm or 2 in one direction or the other, to match things up to the rest of your speakers.

Inadequate shielding allows 60 Hz household current freq in there, which is hum, not static. If there's static, chances are it's in the amp where the center channel comes from.

Put an alternate outboard speaker on each of those speaker wires and see if you still have that static. If so, it's probably a faulty output chip in the center channel of your AV amp, and has nothing to do with your TV.

If it is still only in your TV, the electronic switching in your TV for those speakers becomes suspect, if the switching for those speakers is electronic. If manual, then the only thing that could cause static would be the AV amp. If it is cutting in and out on one speaker or the other, it could be that manual switch needing cleaning.

If it's cutting out and both speakers are doing it at exactly the same time, chances are it is electronic rather than mechanical.


Mr Bob

Toshiba 46H84 HDCP Issues
Hello all. I originally posted a probably with what I thought was my Onkyo 804 receiver in another thread, but I think I've isolated the problem since then...

Here are all the components in my set-up

Toshiba 46h84
Onkyo TX-SR 804
DirecTV H10 receiver
Xbox 360
Philips 637 PS DVD Player
Tivo Series 2

I recently purchased an Onkyo 804 for its HDMI inputs and upscaling to HDMI so that I'll only need to run one cable to my TV. Upon hooking it up tonight, I've noticed that the video over HDMI has an unbearable flicker. Every 5 secs it will cut to black, hold for a second, then come back. I know that it's not the HDMI cable, as I've ran them directly to the TV with no problem. Furthermore, it's not just problems with HDMI sources, as all of the components that are upscaled from component to HDMI (360, DVD) still flicker and cut out.

This morning, I brought my Olevia 232V down and hooked it up to the receiver's HDMI out....no problems. No flickers or cutouts, whereas with the Toshiba I would have both sound and video cutouts approximately every 4.5 seconds.

I've had an HDMI cable running to my TV (no pass through) for 20 months with no ill effects.


What is the issue between the devices? Why can the 804 communicate flawlessly with the Olevia, but not my Toshiba RPTV? It's very puzzling.

Thanks in advance for replies.

Toshiba 46H84 HDCP Issues
Hello all. I originally posted a probably with what I thought was my Onkyo 804 receiver in another thread, but I think I've isolated the problem since then...

Here are all the components in my set-up

Toshiba 46h84
Onkyo TX-SR 804
DirecTV H10 receiver
Xbox 360
Philips 637 PS DVD Player
Tivo Series 2

I recently purchased an Onkyo 804 for its HDMI inputs and upscaling to HDMI so that I'll only need to run one cable to my TV. Upon hooking it up tonight, I've noticed that the video over HDMI has an unbearable flicker. Every 5 secs it will cut to black, hold for a second, then come back. I know that it's not the HDMI cable, as I've ran them directly to the TV with no problem. Furthermore, it's not just problems with HDMI sources, as all of the components that are upscaled from component to HDMI (360, DVD) still flicker and cut out.

This morning, I brought my Olevia 232V down and hooked it up to the receiver's HDMI out....no problems. No flickers or cutouts, whereas with the Toshiba I would have both sound and video cutouts approximately every 4.5 seconds.

I've had an HDMI cable running to my TV (no pass through) for 20 months with no ill effects.


What is the issue between the devices? Why can the 804 communicate flawlessly with the Olevia, but not my Toshiba RPTV? It's very puzzling.

Thanks in advance for replies.


This sounds like bit starvation, which is very common when downloading video material on the internet, and which I still get occasionally on my Dish 622 DVR, when playing out HD content to my HDready RPTV via component.

It is cured by simply backing up the feed about 10 seconds by using the rear single arrow, which instantly backs up the feed by 10 seconds. As opposed to the right single arrow, which forwards the feed by 30 seconds.

Any time my HD feed is doing those repeated, irritating strobing hiccups, backing it up with one push on my single back arrow cures it, by feeding its starving bit buffer.


Mr Bob

This sounds like bit starvation, which is very common when dowloading video material on the internet, and which I still get occasionally on my Dish 622 DVR, when playing out HD content to my HDready RPTV via component.

It is cured by simply backing up the feed about 10 seconds by using the rear single arrow, which instantly backs up the feed by 10 seconds. As opposed to the right single arrow, which forwards the feed by 30 seconds.

Any time my HD feed is doing those repeated, irritating strobing hiccups, backing it up with one push on my single back arrow cures it, by feeding its starving bit buffer.


Mr Bob

Bob, thanks for the reply, but my Tivo is a Series 2 standalone SD, and my DTV receiver is the H10, not the H10-250 series DirecTivo. It seems to be an issue with the television, as a hookup from the H10 to the Onkyo 804 to my Olevia 232 works perfectly, but when I run it to the Toshiba 46H84 RPTV I get audio and video dropout over HDMI every 5 seconds, regardless of source. Even if I am upconverting DVD over component, I have the same issue. It seems to me like an HDCP handshake issue, but it still flummoxes me as to why the Toshiba has no problems directly from the H10 to the TV, but connecting it through the Onkyo causes severe dropouts.

Hello everyone,

I am wondering if anyone has an Oppo 981HD Upscaling DVD player hooked to their 46H84 or similar tv. I have read in a few places that RP CRT's don't really benefit from upscaling over a decent 480p player. Anyone have first hand knowledge? Thanks

James

James,

I have my Oppo 981 hooked up to my 46H84 through my Onkyo 604 receiver, along with a Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player. The PQ on the Oppo is fabulous, to the point that I use it exclusively, except obviously not for HD material. It upconverts SD better than the Tosh, which is very very good. The PQ on non-R1/PAL discs is just as good (just watched Children of Men the other night-wow!). My previous SD player was a modded Pioneer 578, which, at the time, I thought was quite good, but the Oppo blows it away!

Ted

Any news on a tech service bulletin from Toshiba for the center drive line issue for x4 models?

I have been searching really hard on these boards to see if I can find an answer to my problem but I've had no luck. I have a 65H84 (since Aug '04) and recently I've begun to notice dark bars on the sides of my screen. The one of the left is thicker than the one of the right. Neither of them match the 4:3 grey bars. But I don't think it's burn in because I do not have my TV hooked up to cable and I only use my TV in Full or theater 1&2 mode (I only have an Xbox360, PS3, and DVD player hooked up).

I've had a couple repair companies come out to look at it. The first didn't see the problem. Then 2nd said they could fix it but never called me back. I've been trying to get this fixed through Best Buy since December with no luck. Tomorrow (hopefully) Best Buy is going to have a 3rd shop call me.

Does anyone know what is wrong with my TV?

I have been searching really hard on these boards to see if I can find an answer to my problem but I've had no luck. I have a 65H84 (since Aug '04) and recently I've begun to notice dark bars on the sides of my screen. The one of the left is thicker than the one of the right. Neither of them match the 4:3 grey bars. But I don't think it's burn in because I do not have my TV hooked up to cable and I only use my TV in Full or theater 1&2 mode (I only have an Xbox360, PS3, and DVD player hooked up).

I've had a couple repair companies come out to look at it. The first didn't see the problem. Then 2nd said they could fix it but never called me back. I've been trying to get this fixed through Best Buy since December with no luck. Tomorrow (hopefully) Best Buy is going to have a 3rd shop call me.

Does anyone know what is wrong with my TV?


I'd need to see pix to tell you anything. You can add them from your digital cam in your next post, it's relatively simple to do, but they have a size limitation that you might have to master.


Mr Bob

Is there a setting in the service menu that will let me adjust the amount of each color for one of my component inputs without affecting the other inputs? I have adjusted the picture from my HD STB to my liking, but my recorder seems to be greenish. I can adjust the cuts and drives to make the recorder look better, but then the HD STB seems off.

Is there a setting in the service menu that will let me adjust the amount of each color for one of my component inputs without affecting the other inputs? I have adjusted the picture from my HD STB to my liking, but my recorder seems to be greenish. I can adjust the cuts and drives to make the recorder look better, but then the HD STB seems off.

Is your recorder an HD recorder, and if so how? The only HD recorders are DVRs and DVHS, with HDPC being used in a fraction of cases.

If your recorder is SD while your HD STB is HD, that's where it's going bad.

It's been awhile, so I can't say if Tosh's have independent cuts and drives per scanrate, but that would only affect grayscale. You also have to make sure you're talking about the b/w info - grayscale - and not color decoding, which would make your problem happen ONLY when viewing color differentiated material.

If one scanrate has registers for grayscale on that scanrate independently, then you can set the general grayscale one way, and that scanrate another. Mit's do this, but I don't know if Tosh's do.



Mr Bob

It's been awhile, so I can't say if Tosh's have independent cuts and drives per scanrate, but that would only affect grayscale.

They don't per-se, although you can always use the warm/normal/cool base/offsets to simulate that. ... Ok some do have an offset for 1080i cuts (no drives.) ... In any case, it doesn't seem to matter on my set, I've never been able to measure any significant difference between 540p and 1080i greyscale tracking.

OTOH, some models do have scanrate a/o input specific color and tint (sub)registers, the trick is finding them. ;)

They don't per-se, although you can always use the warm/normal/cool base/offsets to simulate that. ... Ok some do have an offset for 1080i cuts (no drives.) ... In any case, it doesn't seem to matter on my set, I've never been able to measure any significant difference between 540p and 1080i greyscale tracking.

OTOH, some models do have scanrate a/o input specific color and tint (sub)registers, the trick is finding them. ;)


Yeah, Tosh went to a very cryptic numbering sys in their sm, which does not lend itself to any form of being able to interpret them, as they are all numbers and NO letters.

I have the keycode to that for my own cals, but cannot give it out.


Mr Bob

The recorder is SD and gets its signal by s-video from the Samsung OTA STB. It's connected by component to the tv.

I adjusted cuts and drives by eye with the color turned to zero, and a stationary tv image. The grayscale looks the same to me on both sources when I switch back and forth. SM changes to cuts and drives on one input show up on the other as well. When the color is brought back up, the picture from the recorder is slightly greenish in the dark colors. This happens with two different brand recorders. Moving the tint towards red does not get rid of the green. I guess I reduced the red and/or blue a little more than the ideal amount. I can eventually find a compromise setting that should work for both sources, but I was hoping there were some input specific settings that would make it easier.

The recorder is SD and gets its signal by s-video from the Samsung OTA STB. It's connected by component to the tv.

I adjusted cuts and drives by eye with the color turned to zero, and a stationary tv image. The grayscale looks the same to me on both sources when I switch back and forth. SM changes to cuts and drives on one input show up on the other as well. When the color is brought back up, the picture from the recorder is slightly greenish in the dark colors. This happens with two different brand recorders. Moving the tint towards red does not get rid of the green. I guess I reduced the red and/or blue a little more than the ideal amount. I can eventually find a compromise setting that should work for both sources, but I was hoping there were some input specific settings that would make it easier.


My experience with Tosh's is that you can't trust turning down your color level all the way to get clean b/w. What I got when I did that was kryptonite green all over the screen. ONLY on Tosh does this huge a difference happen, but color and tint settings CAN be interactive with grayscale, even tho grayscale and color decoding are 2 different things, and you don't use one to get the other.

Grayscale has a huge learning curve. What I am saying here is just a sample.

What you have to do is use material that is ALREADY b/w, with your color and tint roughly where they are supposed to be. Like using Y without the Pb and Pr HU'd, on component, giving you empirical b/w.

And that's for grayscale, with color/tint where they should be. Turning tint in one direction or another for affecting grayscale is NOT how you do it, even tho doing so DOES affect your grayscale.

That' s why your color/tint has to be where it is supposed to be already before you can trust your grayscale settings. Sometimes that means having to go back and forth several times, between grayscale and color decoding and back, to eventually get it right.


Mr Bob

Very interesting! Thanks.

More things to consider:

I've noticed (on DirecTV SD feeds) that poor (highly compressed) MPEG2 encoding can result in a greenish shift to the picture that's quite noticable on near-blacks. If you're running your S-Vid through a home-theater audio receiver, that could be another potential "contamination" source.

And finally, this could be a color-space mapping issue with HD->SD conversion.

I spent the evening playing with the settings. After some adjustments, I was able to get rid of the greenish tint from the recorder, without hurting the HD picture.

I spent the evening playing with the settings. After some adjustments, I was able to get rid of the greenish tint from the recorder, without hurting the HD picture.


How?

Keep in mind I'm going by eye.

I took your hints and suggestions and started over with the factory settings for cuts and drives. I set my color at 40 and tint to zero , and color temp to cool on both inputs. I think I set the contrast a bit lower as well. It was 5 days ago so I'm going from memory. Using just the green component cable, I viewed paused black and white tv shows. I then adjusted to make things as close to B&W and Gray as I could determine by eye. I tried not to make any large changes like I had done previously. I then reconnected the other cables, and turned up the color to about 35 or 40 and adjusted tint. I think the settings, other than tint, were pretty similar for both inputs after I was done. I'm not saying that both are perfect, but the picture from the recorder looks much better than it did when it was tinted green.

Keep in mind I'm going by eye.

I took your hints and suggestions and started over with the factory settings for cuts and drives. I set my color at 40 and tint to zero , and color temp to cool on both inputs. I think I set the contrast a bit lower as well. It was 5 days ago so I'm going from memory. Using just the green component cable, I viewed paused black and white tv shows. I then adjusted to make things as close to B&W and Gray as I could determine by eye. I tried not to make any large changes like I had done previously. I then reconnected the other cables, and turned up the color to about 35 or 40 and adjusted tint. I think the settings, other than tint, were pretty similar for both inputs after I was done. I'm not saying that both are perfect, but the picture from the recorder looks much better than it did when it was tinted green.


COOL!


:cool:

Mr Bob

Keep in mind I'm going by eye.

I took your hints and suggestions and started over with the factory settings for cuts and drives. I set my color at 40 and tint to zero , and color temp to cool on both inputs.
I think I set the contrast a bit lower as well.

Contrast has to be set at about half the factory's 100%. I believe the Tosh's keep whatever your user setttings are whenever you go into sm, so if your user contr is set at half before going in, it should be just right for grayscale alignment once in sm.

Having contr up full during a grayscale causes the brighter areas of even the best grayscale pattern to have color in them, usually a salmon color. This makes b/w alignment impossible. You have to be sure that the light level of whatever you are using as your test pattern - even if it is one frozen scene an ultra dark picture and one a very bright one and one with both in it - the light level has to mid light level, not full light level, on contr, during the alignment process.

Part of the huge learning curve that is grayscale alignment.




I then reconnected the other cables, and turned up the color to about 35 or 40 and adjusted tint. I think the settings, other than tint, were pretty similar for both inputs after I was done. I'm not saying that both are perfect, but the picture from the recorder looks much better than it did when it was tinted green.


I thought you said you started with your color at 40. Then you say after reconn'ing the other cables you "turned up the color to about 35 or 40"...

???

Mr Bob

Hi everyone,

I need advice on new tv stand replacing the oem toshiba one. Im looking in to the Bush Furniture's VS47366, it said it will fit this tv but i have yet to find a picture with a 46h83 on this tv stand. Can some one help me out.

The reason im changing tv stand is to raise the height of the tv for viewing at eye level and also to accommodate playing wii while standing up. and the new Denon reciever and oppo dvd player i have just got.

Do you guys have any other tv stand to suggest?

Hi everyone,

I need advice on new tv stand replacing the oem toshiba one. Im looking in to the Bush Furniture's VS47366, it said it will fit this tv but i have yet to find a picture with a 46h83 on this tv stand. Can some one help me out.

The reason im changing tv stand is to raise the height of the tv for viewing at eye level and also to accommodate playing wii while standing up. and the new Denon reciever and oppo dvd player i have just got.

Do you guys have any other tv stand to suggest?

How much do you need to raise the Height?

How much do you need to raise the Height?

about another 10 inches. The bush TV stand is perfect, but i just want to see how it looks and if there are cheaper alternatives that doesnt look too bad.

Hi guys. You amaze me with your knowledge of all of this stuff. My brain kind of hurts from reading some of these threads. I apologize in advance for being illiterate when it comes to this stuff, but I am blonde so I do have an excuse!

Anyway, here is my story. I have a Toshiba 57H83. I just upgraded to HD with Direct TV and have the H20 receiver. My old (very old) DVD player just died, so I need to go get another one. Here are my questions:

1) Should I buy a DVI output DVD player and use the DVI in on the TV for the DVD player, or should I use an HDMI to DVI cable to connect the H20 to the DVI in? Which way is better, HD DTV receiver to DVI with component for the DVD player, or DVI for the DVD player and component for the HD receiver?

2) Based on the recommendation for the connection preference above, can you recommend a DVD player for me that won't set me back too bad? I was looking at the Oppo 71 cuz it had a DVI out, but it is discontinued and now I am not sure if I even need an upscaling DVD player if it is best to use the DVI in for the HD DTV receiver anyway. If thats the case, I can just get a progressive scan DVD player, right?

I really hope you can help me with this! Based on what I have read here yesterday and today, I am sure you guys know what is best.

Thanx!

I'll tell you what i would do. Try the Sat box both ways and see which looks better. On every HD box i've had the DVI/HDMI connection has looked better than the component connection every time. It's not really supposed to make a difference on CRT RPTV's like ours, but i have found this not to be true(on my set with the boxes i've had anyways). It is probably due to a better implementation of the DVI/HDMI connection over component in the boxes themselves,IMO. If it doesn't make much difference then go for an upscaling DVD player with an HDMI to DVI cable. Others may not agree, but this is what i would do.

about another 10 inches. The bush TV stand is perfect, but i just want to see how it looks and if there are cheaper alternatives that doesnt look too bad.

What I would do would cost you a whopping $10-20. Make a base out of cinderblocks. They'll cost less than $2 each, would give you 8" or 12" of rise. Put some $1/yard walmart bargain fabric over the top (black always works), and you have a solution that looks fantastic, costs next to nothing, and allows you to keep your perfect matching Tosh TV stand.

Hi Pittdog. Thank you for the reply!

Lets assume you are right and I am better with the HD Sat box connected via the HDMI-DVI cable. Then I do not need a upscaling DVD player since I will connect that with the component cable, right? That should give me the best pq for both sources?

Get an HDMI switch for a litte $$ from monoprice and run both via HDMI->DVI. My philips upscaling looks much better via HDMI(1080I) than component (480P)

Hi Pittdog. Thank you for the reply!

Lets assume you are right and I am better with the HD Sat box connected via the HDMI-DVI cable. Then I do not need a upscaling DVD player since I will connect that with the component cable, right? That should give me the best pq for both sources?

Hi guys. You amaze me with your knowledge of all of this stuff. My brain kind of hurts from reading some of these threads. I apologize in advance for being illiterate when it comes to this stuff, but I am blonde so I do have an excuse!

Anyway, here is my story. I have a Toshiba 57H83. I just upgraded to HD with Direct TV and have the H20 receiver. My old (very old) DVD player just died, so I need to go get another one. Here are my questions:

1) Should I buy a DVI output DVD player and use the DVI in on the TV for the DVD player, or should I use an HDMI to DVI cable to connect the H20 to the DVI in? Which way is better, HD DTV receiver to DVI with component for the DVD player, or DVI for the DVD player and component for the HD receiver?

2) Based on the recommendation for the connection preference above, can you recommend a DVD player for me that won't set me back too bad? I was looking at the Oppo 71 cuz it had a DVI out, but it is discontinued and now I am not sure if I even need an upscaling DVD player if it is best to use the DVI in for the HD DTV receiver anyway. If thats the case, I can just get a progressive scan DVD player, right?

I really hope you can help me with this! Based on what I have read here yesterday and today, I am sure you guys know what is best.

Thanx!


*g* I was wondering how long it would take for someone with a name sexyinsavanna to get a reply *g*.

Pitdog usually has good suggestions here, but I'd temper it with try the two different configs with the Direct TV box first, but be prepared to switch the cable to a good DVD player. In other words, get the cables and try them. If the HDMI --> DVI is significantly better, keep it on your box and get a good DVD player. If you watch many DVD's you might consider a OPPO 970, I think there's a hack that allows you to upconvert over component.

There's a number of folks that claim upconverting DVD's is just a gimmick, but I dont buy that. my OPPO 971 looks great on my TOSH 65hx93, much better than my older ONKYO DVD player.


Rick

Hi guys. You amaze me with your knowledge of all of this stuff. My brain kind of hurts from reading some of these threads. I apologize in advance for being illiterate when it comes to this stuff, but I am blonde so I do have an excuse!

Anyway, here is my story. I have a Toshiba 57H83. I just upgraded to HD with Direct TV and have the H20 receiver. My old (very old) DVD player just died, so I need to go get another one. Here are my questions:

1) Should I buy a DVI output DVD player and use the DVI in on the TV for the DVD player, or should I use an HDMI to DVI cable to connect the H20 to the DVI in? Which way is better, HD DTV receiver to DVI with component for the DVD player, or DVI for the DVD player and component for the HD receiver?

2) Based on the recommendation for the connection preference above, can you recommend a DVD player for me that won't set me back too bad? I was looking at the Oppo 71 cuz it had a DVI out, but it is discontinued and now I am not sure if I even need an upscaling DVD player if it is best to use the DVI in for the HD DTV receiver anyway. If thats the case, I can just get a progressive scan DVD player, right?

I really hope you can help me with this! Based on what I have read here yesterday and today, I am sure you guys know what is best.

Thanx!

I have just got the Oppo 981 DVD player input via HDMI > DVI cable. it works great. so good that the old component dvd player picture quality looks like boot leg. i suggest you get a HDMI switcher. and thats the best i think.

personally I have a HDMI receiver that does the HDMI switching for me.

I agree with the rest of you guys that players like the Oppo look pretty good on these sets. The only caveat is that here in KC on TW cable (SA8300 DVR) it is a night and day difference between Component and DVI/HDMI. Obviously a switcher, as suggested above, would be a good idea to have the best of both worlds. We(family) watch alot of cable and try to watch as many movies on HD and series(Idol, LOST, Sopranos, etc...)as possible so a great pic on HD is important, and the Yamaha DVD player i have hooked up via Component does a pretty good job.
I have the Harmony 880 remote and try to keep it simple for my wife and daughter to use and a adding a switcher would complicate things for them(no more 1-button push to watch a movie). Like i said, try it out and if HDMI doesn't make a noticeable difference on your sat box go for the DVD player. Or a switcher if you don't mind that. GL and enjoy!
Sexy, (OOPS!, usually only call my wife that) Every one on this particular thread is pretty knowledgeable on these sets as we've all had them a while and like to tinker with them, so definitely try out all the advice given to your ?'s and let us know what you find and decided to do.

Question for you guys about this whole rcut thing. I have been happy with this tv since I owned it with the red sides being the only real problem I've had with it. Last night I decided to drop rcut by about 6 steps and it solved the problem on my hdmi input. I'm just wondering if rcut affects all of the color modes (warm, cool, etc.) or are there other settings to adjust for the different modes. The reason I ask is that I use the preference setting on all of my inputs, but some of them use different color temps i.e. warm for my dvd player, neutral for games etc.

Thanks.

By the way the tv is a 57H84C

Question for you guys about this whole rcut thing. I have been happy with this tv since I owned it with the red sides being the only real problem I've had with it. Last night I decided to drop rcut by about 6 steps and it solved the problem on my hdmi input. I'm just wondering if rcut affects all of the color modes (warm, cool, etc.) or are there other settings to adjust for the different modes. The reason I ask is that I use the preference setting on all of my inputs, but some of them use different color temps i.e. warm for my dvd player, neutral for games etc.

Thanks.

By the way the tv is a 57H84C


DK offhand. That's something I usually test for when I am with a set, on location. If the settings that come up are different between scanrates when you go into sm from the various scanrates, you can trust that it's local and not global.

Some brands are global for everything, like Sonys. Other brands, like Mit, have different registers for 480i, 480p, 1080i and RGB/computer.


Mr Bob

I have a 65HX83. A while ago, I Tivo'd the test patterns that HD Net used to broadcast each morning (I don't know if they still do or not) and used those patterns for calibration. The patterns weren't great, but they were the only option. There really isn't a good pattern for brightness & contrast.

Recently, I purchased Digital Video Essentials HD, which I played on my Toshiba A2 HD DVD player (using the DVI input). When displaying the Pluge pattern (on both the SD & HD sides of the disc), I can't see any of the 3 black bars on either side of the screen, no matter what setting the Brightness or contrast controls are set to. I never had this problem when using Digital Video Essentials from my old SD DVD player (which was connected via component).

Essentially, it appears that I can't set the black level on my TV when using the DVI input. I haven't read about any other people having a similar problem using DVE HD with the A2. So, I'm assuming that the problem is with the TV. Does anyone have any suggestions?

I have a 65HX83. A while ago, I Tivo'd the test patterns that HD Net used to broadcast each morning (I don't know if they still do or not) and used those patterns for calibration. The patterns weren't great, but they were the only option. There really isn't a good pattern for brightness & contrast.

Recently, I purchased Digital Video Essentials HD, which I played on my Toshiba A2 HD DVD player (using the DVI input). When displaying the Pluge pattern (on both the SD & HD sides of the disc), I can't see any of the 3 black bars on either side of the screen, no matter what setting the Brightness or contrast controls are set to. I never had this problem when using Digital Video Essentials from my old SD DVD player (which was connected via component).

Essentially, it appears that I can't set the black level on my TV when using the DVI input. I haven't read about any other people having a similar problem using DVE HD with the A2. So, I'm assuming that the problem is with the TV. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Sounds like the problem is your dvd player, not tv. It's not passing blacker than black, but that's strange because the A1 did.

Sounds like the problem is your dvd player, not tv. It's not passing blacker than black, but that's strange because the A1 did.

Then it's apparently not passing lighter than black either, because, according to the description on the SD side of the disc, the pattern contains 3 black bars. One is lighter than black, one is black and the other is blacker than black. You're supposed to set the brightness so that the you can see the lighter than black bar, to the first setting where you can see the black bar and where you can't see the blacker than black bar.

I can't see any of the bars.

Then it's apparently not passing lighter than black either, because, according to the description on the SD side of the disc, the pattern contains 3 black bars. One is lighter than black, one is black and the other is blacker than black. You're supposed to set the brightness so that the you can see the lighter than black bar, to the first setting where you can see the black bar and where you can't see the blacker than black bar.

I can't see any of the bars.

Hmm...I'm familiar with the standard def DVE and haven't had any problems with my Tosh 51H83. Isn't the HX series a step up? If I had to guess, I'd still say it's the DVD player, or the encoding on the DVD. You can try turning up the contrast 10 points or so and seeing if that makes a difference. I know that contrast and briteness can be related, and it's possible that your contrast could be too low.

I have my DVD player hooked up via DVI as of recently, I'll try to remember to double check tonight (busy week). How do you get to the pattern that you're using? I have DVE's nav and usually use Avia.

I have a 65HX83. A while ago, I Tivo'd the test patterns that HD Net used to broadcast each morning (I don't know if they still do or not) and used those patterns for calibration. The patterns weren't great, but they were the only option. There really isn't a good pattern for brightness & contrast.

Recently, I purchased Digital Video Essentials HD, which I played on my Toshiba A2 HD DVD player (using the DVI input). When displaying the Pluge pattern (on both the SD & HD sides of the disc), I can't see any of the 3 black bars on either side of the screen, no matter what setting the Brightness or contrast controls are set to. I never had this problem when using Digital Video Essentials from my old SD DVD player (which was connected via component).

Essentially, it appears that I can't set the black level on my TV when using the DVI input. I haven't read about any other people having a similar problem using DVE HD with the A2. So, I'm assuming that the problem is with the TV. Does anyone have any suggestions?

I have the 65HX93. I dont have and HD DVD player, but I do have an OPPO 971 connected via DVI. On that player, using Get Grey disk, the DVD player does pass BTB, although I had to adjust the brightness on the DVD player to get it.

The issue with the BTB on DVI inputs has been a topic of discusion on the HD - DVD player forum. One reason I haven't gotten and Tosh A2 HD player yet is that it apparently doesn not pass the BTB over DVI. (although it does over component). I've been looking at the XA2, as i understand that there are adjustment for brightness you can make, so that I think it would be like the OPPO. I'd still rather just had it setup to upconvert via component, but thats not going to happen.

Check the forum on the HD DVD player for LOTS and LOTS of disc. on this.

Rick

DK offhand. That's something I usually test for when I am with a set, on location. If the settings that come up are different between scanrates when you go into sm from the various scanrates, you can trust that it's local and not global.

Some brands are global for everything, like Sonys. Other brands, like Mit, have different registers for 480i, 480p, 1080i and RGB/computer.


Mr Bob

Thanks,

Does anyone here happen to have the service manual for the 84 series that discovision was offering a little while ago? I pm'd him but haven't heard anything back so I don't know if he still visits the forums.

Another question,

If I have lowered the rcut value due to my blacks being red, is there any general ballpark relation between the gcut and bcut values. I'm pretty sure that because the blacks were very red that I had far too much rcut, so I have to lower the rcut by about 8 or 9 increments to fix the problem, which starts to make the image look a little cold. I have read that the ratio is 2:1 or something like that, but I don't know for what relation ie. blue to red, red to green, blue to green etc.

The tv is a Toshiba 57H84C.

Thanks.

Another question,

If I have lowered the rcut value due to my blacks being red, is there any general ballpark relation between the gcut and bcut values. I'm pretty sure that because the blacks were very red that I had far too much rcut, so I have to lower the rcut by about 8 or 9 increments to fix the problem, which starts to make the image look a little cold. I have read that the ratio is 2:1 or something like that, but I don't know for what relation ie. blue to red, red to green, blue to green etc.

The tv is a Toshiba 57H84C.

Thanks.


Where your cutoffs are set depends on where your Screen trimpots are set, and where your drives are set depends on where your cutoffs are set. It's all a giant hanging mobile in there, you tweak one and all the others somehow get affected, one way or another.

Grayscale has to be set using a valid D6500K reference, or a color analyzer. If you don't have at least one or the other, you will indeed have to depend on your eyes to at least get it close. In such a case, colder rather than warm will have to do.

Having too much red in your blacks is exactly the same as having too little green and blue. It's a balance, a very critical balance, and the drives are affected by whatever you do with your cutoffs. There is no ratio to follow as such, when you are talking about grayscale and cutoffs. The ratio you are speaking of is in the original SMPTE color formulas, not the grayscale.


I am available for phone consultation, if you want to take this to the next level on your set.


Mr Bob

I have a 65HX83. A while ago, I Tivo'd the test patterns that HD Net used to broadcast each morning (I don't know if they still do or not) and used those patterns for calibration. The patterns weren't great, but they were the only option. There really isn't a good pattern for brightness & contrast.

Recently, I purchased Digital Video Essentials HD, which I played on my Toshiba A2 HD DVD player (using the DVI input). When displaying the Pluge pattern (on both the SD & HD sides of the disc), I can't see any of the 3 black bars on either side of the screen, no matter what setting the Brightness or contrast controls are set to. I never had this problem when using Digital Video Essentials from my old SD DVD player (which was connected via component).

Essentially, it appears that I can't set the black level on my TV when using the DVI input. I haven't read about any other people having a similar problem using DVE HD with the A2. So, I'm assuming that the problem is with the TV. Does anyone have any suggestions?


It would not be my expectation that the HD version of DVE would be any different from the SD versions - both DVD and laserdisc. They all used the same pluge patterns. BTB should be there on a good DVDP, whether it's HD or not.

Would be helpful if you specified how you are inputting everything you test - HDMI or component? - plus whether each comment you are making is about SD or HD, not just that the SD side of the disc has this or that particular directive. One may pass it while the other may not.

Also whether you are adjusting the br on the set or in the DVDP, if it has internal br adjusting capacity. Have not played with an HD disc player internally yet, myself.

The display will pick up BTB just fine, as long as it has been properly sent it. It will not be the problem.


Mr Bob

I have a problem with my picture thats shifted to the right, so i have a unsaturated picture on the far left side. what should i do to fix this?

and also i have been trying to find the cleaning solution for the lens before i open the tv up to clean it, but i cant seem to find the stuff on the street.

I have a problem with my picture thats shifted to the right, so i have a unsaturated picture on the far left side. what should i do to fix this?

and also i have been trying to find the cleaning solution for the lens before i open the tv up to clean it, but i cant seem to find the stuff on the street.


No idea what you mean by saturation on just one side of your pic.

For optics cleaning, just use Glass Plus and be done with it. Aside from the fact that it could penetrate the edges of the lenses and get down below while Sprayway, being an aerosol, would not, GP is just as good for cleaning purposes.


Mr Bob

Does anyone know the life span of the blub? How many hours does it usually get?
Thanks.
Mischa.

Does anyone know the life span of the blub? How many hours does it usually get?
Thanks.
Mischa.


Triple-gun CRT, no bulbs.


Treated properly, with videophile viewing practices and normal viewing timeframes/age and being attentive about screenburn, a well calibrated CRT RPTV, cleaned regularly because of the 30K of HV turning the optics into gigantic dust magnets, will stay looking better than new for at least 10 years.

All CRT RPTVs have the same aging characteristics on this issue, Tosh is no exception.

I have been called in to repair AND calibrate 18 year old Mits's, with very loyal customers, who swear afterwards that they look like the day they were bought, 18 years ago, when done.

I have been cleaning and calibrating 6-7 year old HDready CRT RPTVs made by Pioneer, Mits and Hitachi all year, and in all cases have come up with a picture that looks better than new. This has been really exciting to the owner - to have their CRT RPTV back again, and ready for the next 5 years of clean, transparent, silky-smooth - yet precisely crisp - videophile use. One was a WA-DC/Atlanta/St. Louis tour a few months ago, where most of the sets cleaned and calibrated were the Pioneer 510/610/710 series, from 2000-2001.

You can find their comments here on AVS at the thread titled "Mr. Bob Does Atlanta!" from a couple of months back.


Mr Bob

Ok thank you very much. I am selling mine and I wanted to tell the person who buy's it about how much life they should get out of it!!
Thanks again.
Mischa.

Ok thank you very much. I am selling mine and I wanted to tell the person who buy's it about how much life they should get out of it!!
Thanks again.
Mischa.


Just keep all my caveats in mind. Videophile usage means no Torch Mode for any length of time, EVER, and screenburn care means no fixed images for extended periods. EVER!


Mr Bob

Where your cutoffs are set depends on where your Screen trimpots are set, and where your drives are set depends on where your cutoffs are set. It's all a giant mobile in there, you tweak one and all the others somehow get affected, one way or another.

Grayscale has to be set using a valid D6500K reference, or a color analyzer. If you don't have at least one or the other, you will indeed have to depend on your eyes to at least get it close. In such a case, colder rather than warm will have to do.

Having too much red in your blacks is exactly the same as having too little green and blue. It's a balance, a very critical balance, and the drives are affected by whatever you do with your cutoffs. There is no ratio to follow as such, when you are talking about grayscale and cutoffs. The ratio you are speaking of is in the original SMPTE color formulas, not the grayscale.


I am available for phone consultation, if you want to take this to the next level on your set.


Mr Bob

Thanks for the reply. I am in Canada, do you have any suggestion for finding an individual to maybe come calibrate the set, and what I should should expect to pay (ballpark) for something like that.

Thanks for the reply. I am in Canada, do you have any suggestion for finding an individual to maybe come calibrate the set, and what I should should expect to pay (ballpark) for something like that.

Leo Vildosoda (sp?) is up there, and also Michael Chen (Michael TLV). I believe Michael's in Calgary.

Short of that, my passport is fresh and ready to go...

:rolleyes:

Mr Bob

I have a 46H84. In the service menu, does anyone know what "R-Y" and "G-Y" are for? Does anyone know what controls the picture tint (Green to Red) in the service menu?

How can I get to the designer mode from the service mode?

Thanks

I have a 46H84. In the service menu, does anyone know what "R-Y" and "G-Y" are for? Does anyone know what controls the picture tint (Green to Red) in the service menu?

How can I get to the designer mode from the service mode?

Thanks


R-Y and G-Y are registers for color decoding, and require knowledge of how to re-align color decoders in displays. Plus color isolation.

Be VERY careful of going into Designer Mode. Hit the wrong key and instead you go into QAO RESET mode, which wipes your eeproms clean, destroying tons of critically set information. Instantly.


Mr Bob

"A setback is a setup for a comeback."


I like that...

:)

Mr Bob

Mr. Bob -

Thanks for the help. Unfortunately, I didn't write down the numbers for the R-Y and G-Y settings before I moved the numbers. I can get to them from the service menu and haven't tried to get to them in the designer mode.

You wouldn't happen to know the default settings for R-Y and G-Y, would you? If nothing else, I can set it back to default.

Mr. Bob -

Thanks for the help. Unfortunately, I didn't write down the numbers for the R-Y and G-Y settings before I moved the numbers. I can get to them from the service menu and haven't tried to get to them in the designer mode.

You wouldn't happen to know the default settings for R-Y and G-Y, would you? If nothing else, I can set it back to default.


This is one reason I am VERY reluctant to EVER share the registers in a Tosh. When owners don't write down current values before changing them, those changes become permanent upon exiting sm. There is no default to fall back on.

This is a cardinal rule of getting into service menus, and obviously you are not aware of it. I shudder to think what you could do to your set while in there, unattended, just poking around.


Mr Bob

Well...thanks for the help anyway.

I didn't do it as haphazzardly as you think. No poking going on. I'm well aware of the pro's, con's and potential hazzards of entering the service menu. I did write down everything and recorded the numbers. However, I made an error when transferring the numbers to the hand made chart I used to record them. Thats all. I believe I've figured where I've transposed my numbers, but just wonder if you know the default numbers off hand.

It's really not that serious. I didn't mess up anything, and actually improved the picture qualities far better than from the factory. This is the only problem and I'll just get a tech out to fix it. The TV is under extended warrantee.

Sorry to upset your day.

Thanks for the support.

Well...thanks for the help anyway.

I didn't do it as haphazzardly as you think. No poking going on. I'm well aware of the pro's, con's and potential hazzards of entering the service menu. I did write down everything and recorded the numbers. However, I made an error when transferring the numbers to the hand made chart I used to record them. Thats all. I believe I've figured where I've transposed my numbers, but just wonder if you know the default numbers off hand.

It's really not that serious. I didn't mess up anything, and actually improved the picture qualities far better than from the factory. This is the only problem and I'll just get a tech out to fix it. The TV is under extended warrantee.

Sorry to upset your day.

Thanks for the support.


Thanks for enlightening me, I was obviously mistaken in lumping you in with others who ARE definitely a threat to their own displays. Since you did record your starting point, please disregard most of my message above, and my apologies, you are obviously a lot more on top of it than I gave you credit for.

Hopefully you know how to do a color decoder alignment, once you have recovered the original numbers? That's what those regs are for.


Mr Bob

Mr Bob, you seem like an expert on the 57H83 so I'm hoping you can help me out. I've got what seems to me as a serious convergence problem on my tv. I have added some pictures which will probably explain it best. I'm wondering if it's toasted or if I could get it fixed for a reasonable price, or better yet, do it by myself.

Also, I circled that 'Z' shape in the last picture. Do you think that is related to my convergence problem?

Thanks!

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a7/scottnewbee/Convergence3.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a7/scottnewbee/Convergence1.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a7/scottnewbee/Convergence2.jpg

Mr Bob, you seem like an expert on the 57H83 so I'm hoping you can help me out. I've got what seems to me as a serious convergence problem on my tv. I have added some pictures which will probably explain it best. I'm wondering if it's toasted or if I could get it fixed for a reasonable price, or better yet, do it by myself.

Also, I circled that 'Z' shape in the last picture. Do you think that is related to my convergence problem?

Thanks!




Since both red and green are doing the same thing, while blue has no problems, looks like the IC(s) facilitating those colors need to be replaced.

This is a very common problem in CRT RPTVs, and is similar to a thermostat going out in a car. You just fix it, get it reconverged, and continue using your set. Everything else on your set seems to be working fine, only a tiny part of it is bad.

Where do you live? I am available for all such conv repairs, regardless of brand.


Mr Bob

Mr Bob, thanks for the quick reply! I live near St. Louis, MO. Are there 3 ICs in my tv? Would it be best to replace all of them or only the ones causing the problem? How much would something like this cost? It would probably need a cleaning while it was opened up too. It was my Grandpa's tv and he never had anything done to it. :(

Mr Bob, thanks for the quick reply! I live near St. Louis, MO. Are there 3 ICs in my tv? Would it be best to replace all of them or only the ones causing the problem? How much would something like this cost? It would probably need a cleaning while it was opened up too. It was my Grandpa's tv and he never had anything done to it. :(


Which means that you prolly got it free, and can thus easily justify putting some $ into it.

I was just in St. Louis earlier this year! Create another tour and I will come!

Not up on the IC complement of Tosh's in general, but the STK 392-110 was very popular back then. Usually only 2 are used, and if I were you I would replace both, even tho you may need to reconverge more afterwards, when you do it that way.

If one has gone out, the other might not be too far behind. You know, the old throwout bearing principle -

If you do it all yourself, your only costs will be buying the ICs, and equipping yourself with a soldering iron if you don't presently have one.

If you have someone else do it, you can expect to pay anywhere from $250-400, depending on whether you want to do both, what kind of cost of living area you live in, etc...

A mere pittance when it keeps such a nice set going!


Mr Bob

Mr Bob, thanks for your great support on this forum.

I have a Toshiba 65H85C it's almost 2 years old and watch many 1080i HD DVD movies. I notice that the right side of the screen is slight more out of focus than the left. When doing the convergence the cross-hairs on left side of the screen look thinner than the far right.

How can I correct this.

Thanks...Angelo

Mr Bob, thanks for your great support on this forum.

I have a Toshiba 65H85C it's almost 2 years old and watch many 1080i HD DVD movies. I notice that the right side of the screen is slight more out of focus than the left. When doing the convergence the cross-hairs on left side of the screen look thinner than the far right.

How can I correct this.

Thanks...Angelo


It's called scheimpflug, which is the angle at which the lenses are set, relative to the CRT face and the screen itself. NOTHING is parallel in there, all 3 lenses are set at specific angles, which are very precisely set up in the design phase. The expensive ceiling pjs have their own individual tunings for each lens's positioning angle. It is the only way to get super high precision from projection devices.

Sometimes it is electrostatic, and I couldn't say in the case of your set. But if you remove your screen with a grid on, and look directly into each lens, if the focus stays perfect at all points on each CRT deep under the lenses, you can rest assured that the uneven focusing is not being caused electronically or within the CRT face - that the scheimpflug, in this case the horizontal lens angling, of the offending color is off and needs realignment.

The Pioneer 510 is famous for having the blue out of scheimpflug alignment horizontally, while the other colors are very acceptable. The right 2/3 of the blue image will be in excellent focus, while the left 1/3 will be blurry, even when blue is the only color up there, eliminating convergence as the blurring issue.


Mr Bob

Mr Bob, thanks for you help! A buddy of mine has a friend that says he can "send the board" in to somewhere and they diagnose anything that might be wrong with it and fix it. He said, he said, they said sometimes other things on the board can cause the ICs to fail. :eek: Obviously I don't know if any of that is legit, do you? Are the ICs on the board or what are they? According to this guy I might be able to get it fixed this way. Sure would be nice but I don't know what I'm getting into. :(

Mr Bob, thanks for you help! A buddy of mine has a friend that says he can "send the board" in to somewhere and they diagnose anything that might be wrong with it and fix it. He said, he said, they said sometimes other things on the board can cause the ICs to fail. :eek: Obviously I don't know if any of that is legit, do you? Are the ICs on the board or what are they? According to this guy I might be able to get it fixed this way. Sure would be nice but I don't know what I'm getting into. :(


I just looked you pic over again, and I was wrong the first time - the blue is the only color out on your set. The other 2 colors are fine. Hard to pin that down when it's black against white rather than white against black, as one is the opposite of the other...

Only the IC affecting the blue VERTICALLY will be bad. Horizontally, blue is fine. But I would still change out all ICs anyway, JIC.

If you want to send me the board I will do that for you, and be sure it gets done right. Let me know how much they want to fix your board, and chances are I will be able to match that.

I do conv repairs all the time, started doing them way more than 20 years ago, and every year I sail thru dozens and dozens of them. I already know what to look for on your board.


Mr Bob

Mr Bob, perhaps you can help me to understand a little better. As you can see in my second picture, I am able to adjust Red and Blue. So does that mean I only have 2 ICs? Or is one unmovable? Just curious on that part.

How easy do you think it would be for me to remove the board on this tv? If it's something I will be able to do, shipping it to you and having you fix it sounds like a great solution. You've helped me out a ton already, so I feel I owe you! :o

Mr Bob, perhaps you can help me to understand a little better. As you can see in my second picture, I am able to adjust Red and Blue. So does that mean I only have 2 ICs? Or is one unmovable? Just curious on that part.

How easy do you think it would be for me to remove the board on this tv? If it's something I will be able to do, shipping it to you and having you fix it sounds like a great solution. You've helped me out a ton already, so I feel I owe you! :o


User only allows for red and blue to be adjusted, sm allows for all 3 colors to be adjusted. So all 3 colors have to be involved in the conv circuitry.

There are 6 channels involved in convergence: hor and vert for each color. This can take the form of 2 ICs, like the STK 392-110's, or 1 IC that does everything, like the 393-110. I believe I have even seen some Mit models that use 3 ICs.

They can take the format of one of the two doing Hor while the other does the Vert, or blue/h, blue/v and green/h or v, with the other doing basically the same with red h/v and green/h or v.

DK exactly what your format is, in there.

Usually the Tosh's have the convg bd as a smaller, separate board, apart from the rest of the circuitry in there, dedicated pretty much just to the conv. It will have big heat sinks, with STK ICs mounted on them, prolly the ones I mentioned above.

Send me a photo shot from the back of the unit with its back off, and I'll be able to tell you more about which bd to send.


Mr Bob

The 57H83 uses two of the STK394-250 which are on the large board to the left looking at the back of the set. Occasionally there are open resistors on the outputs when these fail. This is a routine repair for most techs, but one needs to be thorough in resoldering bad joints and identifying open resistors. Removing the board on these may be a difficult task for a novice.

The 57H83 uses two of the STK394-250 which are on the large board to the left looking at the back of the set. Occasionally there are open resistors on the outputs when these fail. This is a routine repair for most techs, but one needs to be thorough in resoldering bad joints and identifying open resistors. Removing the board on these may be a difficult task for a novice.


Agreed.

This is the procedure to get into the service menu on the H83/H84 sets. A few things i have noticed about getting into the service menu is that it seems better if you enter it while on an input that is receiving a signal. Otherwise your grid and menus seem to bounce around a bit. OK here we go.
1st turn the set on and make sure it's been on for about 20 minutes or longer to let the guns settle in and heat up(this should always be done before any kind of adjustments are made on your set from user controls to convergence to focusing etc....). Now that your set is ready follow this sequence, be right in front of the control panel on the set with remote control for the set in one hand. press mute 2X on remote. Press mute again and hold it down on the remote( make sure you are pointing the remote in the direction of the set's ir window which is located next to the power button.While holding the mute button down
press the menu button on the set and then release both buttons at the same time. An "S"
will appear on the screen. Now press the menu button again on the set. You are now in service menu. Now press the #7 key on the remote. This brings up the 56 pt grid. If you don't see a grid after preeing the "7" key then something went wrong. Don't panic and don't hit any other keys. Just hit the power button on the set and leave it off for a few seconds. When you turn it back on you should be out of service mode and all will be back to where you were before you started any thing. Once the grid is on your screen you can turn individual guns off to begin focusing each one. Press the "100" key on your remote and it turns on and off the red gun. Press "ENT" and this turns on and off the blue gun.
Pressing "0" turns the green gun on and off. So turn off the red and blue guns by pressing ent and 100. This leaves only the green gun on. Now find the knob on the focus block in the "FOCUS" row of knobs labeled "G" and turn it back and forth. You'l see the green grid go in and out of focus with each turn back and forth. Find the spot on the knob that is the most focused or "sharpest". Now the same thing can be done for the others(red and blue) by turning red on and green off and then blue on and red off. Now most of you all ready know that blue is slightly defocused on purpose. Go ahead and get it as focused as you can , but it will still not be as sharp as red and green. When all are done turn back on all 3 guns again and your grid should be white. You are now done with the electro- mechanical focus. I am very careful of "burn-in" on my set and that grid is quite bright so i wouldn't leave it up for more than 20 minutes or so at a time. To exit service mode just hit the power button on your set.
Manual focus is done using the same service menu instructions only instead of using the focus block, you are going to use the wingnuts located on the guns themselves. The hardest part of this is having to constantly move the screen to get to those guns and then looking at the screen to check the focus. You can make a mark where the wing nut is located at before you start as a reference in case you mess up the focus or can't see a difference. Using the above referenced service menu procedure turn off the guns leaving only the one to be focused on. Loosen that guns wingnut(check that guns focus 1st by looking at the grid on the screen) then move that gun about 1/8" and see what happens.
If it got worse,move it the other way 1/8". If that made it worse then where you 1st started from then somewhere inside that 1/4" of travel is the sweet spot. If the focus got better in one direction either way, keep moving in that direction until it starts geting worse.
This then tells you to go back the other way until you nail it. Doing this procedure i could get my blue gun pretty tight, but still left it slightly out of focus(all though less so than the way it was) for the reasons that have been mentioned in this forum and others. Once you get one focused in to your satisfaction, tighten that wingnut back down and you're done with it. Don't forget to put all the screws back in your screen and enjoy your set.
While we're here and now know how to get into the 56pt convergence we might as well explain how it works. This is a great way to fix minor geometry problems as well. Turn off the blue and red guns leaving only the green gun on. Your grid should be green. There is a little box or (cursor)that should be somewhere on the grid. By pressing the "5" key on your remote, it will make the cursor blink or remain solid with each stroke of the # "5" key. When it is blinking you can move it around the grid using the 2 4 6 8 keys on the remote. They act as direction keys 2 is up 8 is down 6 is right and 4 is left. When the cursor is solid(not blinking) it actually moves the grid in that location. Green is the gun that all others should be converged to. So it is important that these lines are straight and parallel
to each other. After you have them straight to your satisfaction, turn on the red gun by pressing the "100" button on the remote. Now press the # "3" button on the remote until the cursor color changes to red. Using the "5" key to change the cursor from blinking to solid go through the same routine lining the red grid up with the green one. When you are done with red, turn the blue gun on by hitting the "ent" key on the remote to converge blue to the red and green. Use the '3' key to change the cursor color to blue to move the blue lines. This will really sharpen up your picture and make it rival and surpass most of the newer tech sets out there. When you are done with the convergence press the 7 key on the remote. The screen and grid will kind of freak out for a second and then on the screen it will say" Please press touch Focus. Go ahead and push touch focus on your set(behind the flip down door on our sets). This will save all your convergence settings that were done in the service menu. After you hit touch focus, you will see lines scanning up and down your screen in both directions and in all 3 colors. This goes on for 5 or 10 seconds and then another script comes on the screen saying touch focus saved or setting saved(something to that effect) at which time you can shut your set off with the power button on the set. Afer a few seconds you can turn it back on and you will be out of service mode and back to normal.
Like i said a few times all ready, this stuff is all "at your own risk". There are things you should not mess with in service mode and when doing the cleaning in the set and unplugging that harness make sure the set is unplugged(common sense i know, but we never know who we're dealing with over the net). Don't forget about not leaving that grid up for long periods of time as well. If you are doing the convergence and can't get it done in one shot, turn all the guns back on, hit 7 , and save to touch focus and it will at least save the work you started. Watch a little bit of TV(even if the convergence is messed up because you didn't get it finished) just to let the phosphors in the guns even out a bit, and then go back at it again. GL all and any other ?'s just ask and i'll answer them if i can.

Thanks PITTDOG1 for the excellent tutorial. I own a 57HX83 that I absolutely love and now after following your instruction it looks better that ever. I am watching IRobot right now and it looks FANTASTIC! Thanks to everyone for this wonderful thread.

Cheers

Chris

Thanks PITTDOG1 for the excellent tutorial. I own a 57HX83 that I absolutely love and now after following your instruction it looks better that ever. I am watching IRobot right now and it looks FANTASTIC! Thanks to everyone for this wonderful thread.

Cheers

Chris

Yes, quite good. I would do a few things different, tho.

Optical focusing, done via the Cantilever Technique, will assure you of tightest mechanical focus possible. This is where you pull the screen out and push the screen in, to find the sweet spot. If it is already there - if that color is perfectly focused already - you have confirmed that without even loosening that color's wingnut, preserving a possibly already perfect mechanical focus on that color. Which is good, because the regular way of optical focusing given above allows you to wind up close, but not absolutely centered, and you could wind up just as close as when you started, but in the opposite direction. This would change the size of the image accordingly, affecting your convergence, loosening it all up, requiring redoing. Not so with the CT, where you can confirm wherever you are without changing anything.

The Cantilever Technique is the tightest and most non-invasive double-check that I know of. It's the ONLY optical focusing technique I have ever used, since I wrote it about 8 years ago.

On electrostatic focus at the focus block, BE CAREFUL. It's really easy, if you're easily distracted, to grab a Screen pot rather than a Focus pot, and in seconds douch your grayscale. Use a flashlight and shine it FROM THE SIDE, to see the labeling on the black plastic of the focus block, and PAY ATTENTION that you don't grab the wrong trimpot!

On the trimpot focusing, you need a MEDIUM LEVEL grid source for the focusing, and look for the scanlines themselves to be in focus. The internal grids gen'd by the unit itself may be too hot, too thick for accuracy on average light level video material. They usually are, on most brands.

So I do that one using a sent-in grid in 480 - AVIA's are great - and am NOT in service mode when I do it. I separate the colors via the user convergence, and do it at 50% contrast on 50IRE grids. I use 480 so I can clearly see the scanlines - 1080 hides them too effectively for focusing use.

THAT replicates real world material for video viewing accurately - achieving average light level, which is what real world video material uses. Interally generated grids are usually too hot and too fat, and are NOT in favor with me.

The best converging is done on medium light level grids, sent in from the outside, in real time. I don't think this is possible on a Tosh, I think they limit you as to using THEIR internally gen'd grids, but hitting 7 DOES pop you back to your sent-in material, for double-check every time, as I recall. This allows you to recheck what you just did, while you were in 7 mode, even if it is not in real time.

Have not done a Tosh in awhile, let me know if you find any different.


Mr Bob

PS - the 9 points in user conv have to be linear and straightened out, and causing the lines they affect to be parallel with each other, before you can get the sm grids to line up correctly, in sm. That means NO curls, even if it separates the lines more from each other to get them straight and parallel with each other.

Once parallel with each other, you can use the sm grids to properly dial them in. If the 9 point settings in user are causing curvatures in or out of sm, no amount of tweaking in sm will give you excellent results.

Mr Bob, I just sent you some pictures of my TV to your imageperfection addy. Let me know what you think. Thanks!

The 57H83 uses two of the STK394-250 which are on the large board to the left looking at the back of the set. Occasionally there are open resistors on the outputs when these fail. This is a routine repair for most techs, but one needs to be thorough in resoldering bad joints and identifying open resistors. Removing the board on these may be a difficult task for a novice.

Oh boy! :(

How difficult will it be? Is it just unscrewing the board and unplugging a few wires? Or is a soldering involved?

Oh boy! :(

How difficult will it be? Is it just unscrewing the board and unplugging a few wires? Or is a soldering involved?


The boards require no unsoldering to unhook, but be careful around the plug-ins. Some are so tight in there you could bend the board getting them out. If they are tight, pry them out by their edges carefully, if they have shoulders to grab. Have not been in a Tosh for awhile, but that's what you have to do with a Mit. I use a needlenosed pliers, position it under what I want to pry up, then spread the jaws, to apply pressure in just the right spots, if pry points are evident and they resist normal pressure.

If there are no shoulders chances are they simply pull out. Rocking them a bit will help, but again, be careful of bending the board, which could spring loose cold solder joints.

Once out, I would simply check the legs for cold solders - don't expect you'll see any, from this particular anomaly - and then replace both ICs. Only one will be bad, but replace the other JIC - it could go bad tomorrow. You're in there anyway, just do it. It will prolly necessitate additional conv tweaking, but eminently worth it in the peace of mind dept.

You prolly won't need any resistors. If you do, you'll need a meter and to know the color codes for resistors, and how to check them in vs. out of circuit.

The entire board carriage may be easier to pull out and prop up, leaving the bd in place, than removing the board for work. Tosh's bd undersides are usually fully available when propped up, not covered with metal shielding on most of their underside area, like Pioneers are.

I am available for phone consultation if you wish.


Mr Bob

So I do that one using a sent-in grid in 480 - AVIA's are great - and am NOT in service mode when I do it. I separate the colors via the user convergence, and do it at 50% contrast on 50IRE grids. I use 480 so I can clearly see the scanlines - 1080 hides them too effectively for focusing use.

Mr. Bob, I'd like to try this but I'm wondering how you separate the colors using user convergence? Doesn't the convergence grid cover the AVIA grid? I'm confused...

Mr. Bob, I'd like to try this but I'm wondering how you separate the colors using user convergence? Doesn't the convergence grid cover the AVIA grid? I'm confused...


Go to User conv menu.

Separate your crosshairs in the middle diagonally, red to the upper right, blue to the lower left. Pull out of user menu.

Then do the focusing on the sent-in grid, once back to viewing it.


Mr Bob

Thanks, Mr. Bob. I just adjusted focus; it was pretty much right on anyway. When I went to the AVIA grid, the colors only separated in the middle (bowing effect). Is this right? I used the lines in the center to focus. The red line is much wider, however, at the sides of the display. Again, is this normal?

Thanks again,
Ted

Thanks, Mr. Bob. I just adjusted focus; it was pretty much right on anyway. When I went to the AVIA grid, the colors only separated in the middle (bowing effect). Is this right? I used the lines in the center to focus. The red line is much wider, however, at the sides of the display. Again, is this normal?

Thanks again,
Ted


The Tosh has 9 point converging, but this is only after master crosshairs converging. If you separate the master crosshairs, which is the first thing that gets done when you go in, everything on the screen should go with it. Then don't do anything with the 9 points, just leave them alone.

The center of the screen should be best/tightest focus if the entire screen is properly compensated for, like on the newer HDreadys, but some brands have difference in focus from center to edge. It was very prominent on the older Mits's, before HD.

Sony advises on their older units to get the focus set so that it's in focus 1/3 in from the sides, allowing the center and the extreme edges to be slightly out.

So you are prolly correctly seeing exactly what's going on in there. Whether you get the center perfect while the sides are out, or the middle third in from the sides while the rest is out, are prolly your only choices on your set.


Mr Bob

Good evening Mr. Bob;

I am new to AVS and would like to follow your forum.

I have the Toshiba 57hx94 that is the display for a complete Kenwood Sovereign home theater set up. Is there a thread for this unit or does this thread apply.

I am looking to move beyond the user menu's and DVE discs to calibrate my set. I am an electronics tech by trade. True smoke and burn on DC/DC converters, etc.

Can you help?

Cineplex1

No idea what you mean by saturation on just one side of your pic.

For optics cleaning, just use Glass Plus and be done with it. Aside from the fact that it could penetrate the edges of the lenses and get down below while Sprayway, being an aerosol, would not, GP is just as good for cleaning purposes.


Mr Bob

like for example when i play PS3 i can clearly see the picture is shifted on to the right because i dont see the whole picture missing may be an inch?so some buttons in the game dont show. is this like an overscan problem?or will convergence fix it?

Good evening Mr. Bob;

I am new to AVS and would like to follow your forum.

I have the Toshiba 57hx94 that is the display for a complete Kenwood Sovereign home theater set up. Is there a thread for this unit or does this thread apply.

I am looking to move beyond the user menu's and DVE discs to calibrate my set. I am an electronics tech by trade. True smoke and burn on DC/DC converters, etc.

Can you help?

Cineplex1


Tosh's can look quite sizzlingly real, once fully cleaned and calibrated. I know of no thread per se that deals with this, no. Perhaps others do.

I am available for calibrations or consultations, or both, if you wish to benefit from my advanced experience on such things. I'm not familiar with your particular model number, but if it's a CRT RPTV, chances are I already know exactly what to do with your set - all the little ins and outs that get you to that super crisp and lifelike picture - and am willing to share that knowledge.

But revealing some of the deeper codes is not allowed because of non-disclosure agreements with Tosh, which of course you are free to make with Tosh yourself if you wish. The more readily available codes are marked such that you can make out their abbreviations, and what they mean, once you're in sm, if you know what to look for.

If you are far away and want world class reference experience from me on such things rather than flying me in, contact me directly and we'll talk. These boards give you bits and pieces, but to do a full scale calibration, chances are you'll need more than that.

You sound capable and adept at what you do; training you in these arts for your own set would most likely be a very enriching experience for both of us.


Mr Bob

like for example when i play PS3 i can clearly see the picture is shifted on to the right because i dont see the whole picture missing may be an inch?so some buttons in the game dont show. is this like an overscan problem?or will convergence fix it?


Overscan is a staple in CRT RPTV tech, Tosh is not the only brand that has it.

Reducing overscan is not hard at all. Correcting the hosing your picture gets when you do, is a very challenging art, that takes some experience to truly master. It involves creating an entirely new picture on green that is just as coherent as it was when it was overscanned, plus reconverging the other 2 colors to it, in the new, reduced overscan condition.

Since the picture you get from overscan reduction is nowhere near as coherent as it used to be - as I said before, it gets hosed royally - getting it coherent again takes awhile - hours per scanrate - and strains the patience of the best of us.


Mr Bob

Overscan is a staple in CRT RPTV tech, Tosh is not the only brand that has it.

Mr Bob
When watching programming with side bars on my 57h84, the picture is obviously shifted to the right (that is, I can measure the width of each sidebar and the one on the left is larger than the right one). Is that "overscan," or is it horizontal shift?

When watching programming with side bars on my 57h84, the picture is obviously shifted to the right (that is, I can measure the width of each sidebar and the one on the left is larger than the right one). Is that "overscan," or is it horizontal shift?

That sounds more like the image not being properly centered as opposed to o'scan. Should be a service menu parameter that handles H POSITION.

I'd ask Bob about that one.

When watching programming with side bars on my 57h84, the picture is obviously shifted to the right (that is, I can measure the width of each sidebar and the one on the left is larger than the right one). Is that "overscan," or is it horizontal shift?


When HD is your priority, which is the case here in this camp, exactly where your 4x3 sidebars land is not important. Because if you prioritize HD centering, those 4x3 sidebars could land anywhere, and with different channels, often do. They can be all over the map, with different channels and different DVDs.

Center your HD on 1080i and use AVIA's grids in its Widescreen Enhanced section for DVD/480, and forget about the 4x3 sidebars and their relative positions.

If you watch a lot of 4x3, just be sure to set your geometry up so that those sidebars are straight vertically on medium light level fixed patterns- at least as straight as possible, since their straightness is subject to the light levels of individual scenes. Which is why you want to use ALL - average light level - for this and other structural things, like convergence.

And whenever you run 4x3 on a 16x9 screen, diminish your contrast - which determines your screen's overall light level - a bit for the duration. At least by 20%. Or stretch your pic so that no sidebars form.

4x3 sidebars are the most common source of screenburn on HDready 16x9's.


Mr Bob

Overscan is a staple in CRT RPTV tech, Tosh is not the only brand that has it.

Reducing overscan is not hard at all. Correcting the hosing your picture gets when you do, is a very challenging art, that takes some experience to truly master. It involves creating an entirely new picture on green that is just as coherent as it was when it was overscanned, plus reconverging the other 2 colors to it, in the new, reduced overscan condition.

Since the picture you get from overscan reduction is nowhere near as coherent as it used to be - as I said before, it gets hosed royally - getting it coherent again takes awhile - hours per scanrate - and strains the patience of the best of us.


Mr Bob

Is there directions in how to fix overscan problem? does it mean just to shift the green back to the left and to the middle. And try to get the other 2 color to match the green?

I think it's best to first set what overscan you want with the Avia overscan pattern, then go ahead and match up your template grid.

One thing I think that many are leaving out of the convergence tweaking, is first resetting the user convergence to the zero point. I should talk as I didn't do it either figuring the 57HX93 just came from the factory and no user did any adjusting.

For getting it right anybody who first fiddled with the user convergence, I'd think they would hv to go back and find the center point for each spot. Then re-do the dynamic convergence. That's what we use to do with the 65H80, or is a dying art? :)

how do you reset the convergence back to zero? I need to fix the overscan problem.

Tosh's can look quite sizzlingly real, once fully cleaned and calibrated. I know of no thread per se that deals with this, no. Perhaps others do.

I am available for calibrations or consultations, or both, if you wish to benefit from my advanced experience on such things. I'm not familiar with your particular model number, but if it's a CRT RPTV, chances are I already know exactly what to do with your set - all the little ins and outs that get you to that super crisp and lifelike picture - and am willing to share that knowledge.

But revealing some of the deeper codes is not allowed because of non-disclosure agreements with Tosh, which of course you are free to make with Tosh yourself if you wish. The more readily available codes are marked such that you can make out their abbreviations, and what they mean, once you're in sm, if you know what to look for.

If you are far away and want world class reference experience from me on such things rather than flying me in, contact me directly and we'll talk. These boards give you bits and pieces, but to do a full scale calibration, chances are you'll need more than that.

You sound capable and adept at what you do; training you in these arts for your own set would most likely be a very enriching experience for both of us.


Mr Bob

Thank you for your reply. I will contact you soon. As I have had good luck with DVD Essentials and HQV etc. I still feel that there is more that I can get out of this TV.

As for the model the 57hx94 is the latest and greatest, and sadly the last, CRT RPTV that Tosh did. It is the final model in the 57h__84 series.

What is your feel for the SpyderTv colorimeter?

I've been around here for a long time, reading and not posting much. I currently have a 51H84 that's not quite two years old. I'm having a major problem with it, I hope Mr Bob can lend some insight into the problem. I have posted before about 6 months ago and didn't really get any help.

I have a major flickering problem with my green crt and it seems to be variable and the worst on dark scenes. Some days you can barely see it, others it so pronounced that I can't even watch it. It's obviously out of the Tosh 1yr manu warranty so that's not an option. I'm a computer tech, so I'm not afraid to get inside, but I have no idea what to look for or replace. I would assume it is the controller board for the green tube causing it to overdrive the tube. It happens on all inputs (HDMI DVD player, SD Composite satellite, Component XBOX 360). I'd like to keep the set around, I love it when it doesn't flicker. Thanks!

I've been around here for a long time, reading and not posting much. I currently have a 51H84 that's not quite two years old. I'm having a major problem with it, I hope Mr Bob can lend some insight into the problem. I have posted before about 6 months ago and didn't really get any help.

I have a major flickering problem with my green crt and it seems to be variable and the worst on dark scenes. Some days you can barely see it, others it so pronounced that I can't even watch it. It's obviously out of the Tosh 1yr manu warranty so that's not an option. I'm a computer tech, so I'm not afraid to get inside, but I have no idea what to look for or replace. I would assume it is the controller board for the green tube causing it to overdrive the tube. It happens on all inputs (HDMI DVD player, SD Composite satellite, Component XBOX 360). I'd like to keep the set around, I love it when it doesn't flicker. Thanks!


You need to isolate whether it's the CRT or the circuitry leading up to it. One way is to make a known good board go to a suspect CRT, or vice versa.

It could be anywhere in the chain of events leading to the green CRT. The most likely suspects would be the green CRT or the focus block. No way to know any more than this on the current info here.


Mr Bob

What is your feel for the SpyderTv colorimeter?


The Spyder is good for confirming your color temp, but I don't think it gives you any guidance on how to improve it.

I don't use color analyzers in my cals. I am strictly a color comparator guy, tho I have used such things at times. I consider the comparator the bottom line, when all is said and done, and I don't need guidance from an analyzer to get it right.

So I have not spent much time with them.


Mr Bob

My 46h84 has been making a LOUD snap/pop noise for a few months. Last week, it made the noise and then stopped working. There is no image when I turn it on, can't even see the menus.

It also started humming from the speakers.

I have read through this thread and couldn't find a definitive answer.

What is wrong? What are my options to fix it?

Thank you for your help

Nothing to do directly with our Toshibas, but for in-general, it reads like your high voltage (flyback) transformer died.

Those popping noises could be sparks jumping across the over-voltage protection spark-gaps typically found in the high voltage circuits. A common occurrence just before the high voltage power supply dies.

Nothing to do directly with our Toshibas, but for in-general, it reads like your high voltage (flyback) transformer died.

Those popping noises could be sparks jumping across the over-voltage protection spark-gaps typically found in the high voltage circuits. A common occurrence just before the high voltage power supply dies.


Thank you Walt. Is this a part that somebody with a little bit of familiarity could fix themselves? If so, where could I get the part.

Somebody else must have had this happen at one time. Was this the problem as well?

Thanks all!

mY WIFE TURNED ON MY 65H83 AND THE PICTURE WENT OUT i HAD SOME ONE COME OUT TO LOOK AT IT AND HE SPENT ABOUT 3 MIN LOOKING AT IT AND SAID THE HIGH VOLTAGE POWER WASNT WORK OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT ANYONE KNOW IF i CAN JUST REPLACE THE POWER BOARD OR THEY WANT 600 MIN TO FIX IT.

HELP ANYONE

ROB

The high voltage power supply isn't all the difficult to change out for someone with appropriate electronics repair skills. However, you will be working high voltage, and that area should be treated as if it was "live" even if the set itself is unplugged.

If you want to do it yourself, are you comfortable working with live high voltage? :eek:

any ideas when to get a high voltage power thing?

I ment where?

This is a problem that needs troubleshooting and could be many things. There is not an easy symptom-repair fix for this. It needs an experienced tech.

The high voltage power supply isn't all the difficult to change out for someone with appropriate electronics repair skills. However, you will be working high voltage, and that area should be treated as if it was "live" even if the set itself is unplugged.

If you want to do it yourself, are you comfortable working with live high voltage? :eek:


Thanks again Walt! How can I get a part number and where is the place to get one?

This is a problem that needs troubleshooting and could be many things. There is not an easy symptom-repair fix for this. It needs an experienced tech.


Couldn'ta said it bettah mahseff.

And Tosh's are not noted for being technician-friendly.


Mr Bob

The DVI input on my 46H83 no longer works. Neither do the s-video nor the standard yellow RCA inputs. In fact, the only video inputs that work are the component video inputs. All the audio inputs work. I'm not sure about the coaxial inputs, as I don't use them. Before this happened, I heard a pop. Is this easy to fix, in that a generally handy person could repair it? Or is it an expensive repair for a serviceman only? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Found this thread after posting my own (oops!).

Hi all, I had a question for the Toshiba RPTV gurus. I recently moved to a new apartment, and upon re-hooking up my 51H84, noticed the picture was severely distorted (bowed edges, and the top and bottom 1" of the picture was a black strip). Having a good amount of experience, and knowing what *not* to mess around with, I hopped into service mode to adjust the vertical positioning. However, I discovered that that top inch of the picture wasn't hidden, but missing.

However, having just moved I'm strapped for cash. Anyone know a way to fix this issue, without having to call out a tech. I'm pretty handy, so even if it's not an easy fix, any help is appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Mr. Bob/pittdog,

I've finally decided to do a CRT lens cleaning on my 2-1/2 year old 46H84 and I have 2 questions which I can't seem to find an answer for: 1) What type of paper towels do you recommended (I know Mr. Bob said "non-shop", but maybe a brand name/type)?, and 2) How much Sprayway foam to use on the lens (just a thin coating, or more)?

Thanks in advance,
Ted

Mr. Bob/pittdog,

I've finally decided to do a CRT lens cleaning on my 2-1/2 year old 46H84 and I have 2 questions which I can't seem to find an answer for: 1) What type of paper towels do you recommended (I know Mr. Bob said "non-shop", but maybe a brand name/type)?, and 2) How much Sprayway foam to use on the lens (just a thin coating, or more)?

Thanks in advance,
Ted


Feel free to search the net for free answers to these questions. Many people do, very few actually directly honor the originators of such tech with the royalties they really deserve.

As the originator of this tech, if you want it from the horse's mouth, I am available for that, but only if you believe in equilateral exchange, rather than something for nothing-ism. If you believe in equilateral exchange, you know how to reach me.


Mr Bob

What "tech" have you originated? What is the big deal about cleaning lenses? We do it on every set we service. Just use microfiber cloths and a safe cleaning formula. I use the cloths and cleaner sold by GE through Home Depot as Cleaner for Lexan. Tested it on every type of lens, screen, and mirror we have seen an never had any issues.

What "tech" have you originated? What is the big deal about cleaning lenses? We do it on every set we service. Just use microfiber cloths and a safe cleaning formula. I use the cloths and cleaner sold by GE through Home Depot as Cleaner for Lexan. Tested it on every type of lens, screen, and mirror we have seen an never had any issues.


Great! Glad you could help.


Mr Bob

LOL ... you know this is why I stopped participating over at "The Spot" some time ago. To wit, I got the distinct impression that I was "ruffling feathers" every time I dared to answer a calibration or other technical question in the "free" section of the forums.

PS: I'm still waiting on "royalties" for my work in helping to crack the cryptic numeric registers on the xxH82 series ... ;) I'm sure at least a few pro-calibrators have benefited from that. :)

LOL ... you know this is why I stopped participating over at "The Spot" some time ago. To wit, I got the distinct impression that I was "ruffling feathers" every time I dared to answer a calibration or other technical question in the "free" section of the forums.

PS: I'm still waiting on "royalties" for my work in helping to crack the cryptic numeric registers on the xxH82 series ... ;) I'm sure at least a few pro-calibrators have benefited from that. :)


Send me an email with some info, and I'll send you a check!


Mr Bob

Not sure is I have a problem but my Toshiba H83 has very faint vertical lines on the set durring playback in all imputs. Everything looks great but when a really dark scene come on I can the a "prison bar" effect on the screen. If I turn the contrast from 60 down to 30 they almost go away but that makes the picture too dark. Any help would be great...........THANKS!!!!

Not sure is I have a problem but my Toshiba H83 has very faint vertical lines on the set durring playback in all imputs. Everything looks great but when a really dark scene come on I can the a "prison bar" effect on the screen. If I turn the contrast from 60 down to 30 they almost go away but that makes the picture too dark. Any help would be great...........THANKS!!!!

Are you using an upsampling DVD player? Try to turn off the upsampling, and see if they go away. I noticed faint vertical lines when I hooked up my Philips and Oppo players via HDMI/DVI. I believe they go away if I turn the output to 480p instead of 1080i.

So far, I'm just living with it since the picture detail is much improved with the upsampling. If anyone has a solution other than "living with it", I'd love to hear about it.

Thanks,

Marshall

My sources are Blu Ray Panasonic via the DVI 1080i and others are Directv HD Tivo 1080i and Xbox 360 1080i.

I watched Blu Ray Unforgiven last night which has a lot of dark scenes. The gray/white bars are pretty annoying once you look for them. The lighter daylight scenes are fantasic on this set. I wondered if the set needed repair.......

My sources are Blu Ray Panasonic via the DVI 1080i and others are Directv HD Tivo 1080i and Xbox 360 1080i.

I watched Blu Ray Unforgiven last night which has a lot of dark scenes. The gray/white bars are pretty annoying once you look for them. The lighter daylight scenes are fantasic on this set. I wondered if the set needed repair.......


Could this be HDMI at work, doing the kind of thing it does on certain brands? Hitachis have been extremely hard hit, requiring a substantial upgrade in their firmware/settings, and even tho it improved things immeasurably, there's still some horizontal shifting that they are all putting up with while Hit continues working on it...

Is this a problem on component as well?


Mr Bob

Yes ....... component via my Directv HD Tivo does the same thing. I'll have to mess with it tonight some more.

Yes ....... component via my Directv HD Tivo does the same thing. I'll have to mess with it tonight some more.


Wish I could help, but aside from convergence repairs, I don't touch Toshibas for repair issues.

On my Panny, 2 mods were needed, when new. One was for picket fencing in the S Video image, and the other was for streaking in the blacks. The second one was remedied by upping the capacitance on a certain cap in each of the CRT socket boards by a factor of 10. The S one I don't know about, they took it away for that one.



Mr Bob

Well last night after changing the 1080i settings on my Blu Ray Panasonic, Directv HD Tivo and Xbox 360 to 720p ............ poof the lines disappear!

Strange, I didn't think my Toshiba (according to the instructions) did 720p. However now I have one long horizonal line in the middle of the set. I think I can live with it until I get a new set in about a year or so.

Also at 480p the picture is perfect with out any lines.

Features of Toshiba 46H83
Like most rear-projection HDTVs today, the 46H83 converts all incoming images to either 1080i or 540p resolution, and it can display 1080i HDTV when connected to an external HD source. Among the HD-compatible inputs are a pair of wideband component-video jacks as well as a DVI input with Hollywood-approved HDCP copy protection.


So is the set displaying at 540p if I set my Blu Ray at 720p? The pic looks good.....I can't tell much of a difference. Also the one line I have now is a very faint white/grey horizonal line.

Well last night after changing the 1080i settings on my Blu Ray Panasonic, Directv HD Tivo and Xbox 360 to 720p ............ poof the lines disappear!

Strange, I didn't think my Toshiba (according to the instructions) did 720p.

I doesn't. Not native anyway. It does evidently upconvert 720p to 1080i, however. Displaying/keeping 720p native and 1080i native was done on only a tiny fraction of sets ever built. My 65" Panny, which is for sale I might add, is one of them, one of the ONLY ones.

The upconversion from 720p -> 1080i is done on many sets, and on others 720p won't even show up at all. Just blank space. So at least your set does the upconversion.

This upconversion process has somehow remedied your situation! Don't ask me how...

However now I have one long horizonal line in the middle of the set. I think I can live with it until I get a new set in about a year or so.

Also at 480p the picture is perfect with out any lines.

You're not out of the woods yet. One line shown at all times is a fixed image and will cause screenburn on your set, the higher the contrast the more the screenburn. Unless you intend to contribute to the landfills with the toxic waste inherent in all types of electronics, and big screens have tons of it, you will want to sell your set at that time, and move it on to a new owner.

Your chances of selling it with that kind of screenburn are diminished, as is your asking price.

According to your last post, tho, it's a white/gray line. As long as its brightness is average, chances are it won't show up as screenburn. It's only when the line is white, black, or some high or low level brightness or some color in particular, that it will screenburn your set.

If average light level gray, you may skate on this one, as there may be no uneven aging of the phosphors, which is the definition of screenburn.


Mr Bob

Thanks So Much For Your Help!!!

Help, today I noticed a small dot on my screen it looked like a bad pixel on a lcd monitor. at close inspection its 3 dots yellow red and blue . I just cleaned the lenses and its still there do you guys have any ideas. I have the 65H84

Thanks Ken

Help, today I noticed a small dot on my screen it looked like a bad pixel on a lcd monitor. at close inspection its 3 dots yellow red and blue . I just cleaned the lenses and its still there do you guys have any ideas. I have the 65H84

Thanks Ken


Sounds like your beam quit its scanning with some energy still in it, and vaporized the phosphors in the center of each gun.

Sorry, that's permanent damage. Your set's blanking system must not be doing its job on turn-off.

I have seen this many times on the V10 chassis of Mit, where they had to extend their warranty an additional 2 years, to 3 years total, when this sort of thing kept happening. It sometimes caused a squiggle, sometimes a curved vertical line, and sometimes just a dot.

It was cured by installing the CM Kit, which included a blanking sys for when the set would be turned off.


Mr Bob

thanks for you reply a noticed a few other things. the dot moves slowly vertical after a few hours of viewing. Also it only appears after the set has been turned on for awhile. I can I expect to see more in the future.

thanks for you reply a noticed a few other things. the dot moves slowly vertical after a few hours of viewing. Also it only appears after the set has been turned on for awhile. I can I expect to see more in the future.


If it moves at all, it's not screenburn. Your CRTs are OK.

Have not heard of this one before. Let us know when you ferret out what it is and get it remedied.


Mr Bob

Help, after connecting my Xbox 360 to my Toshiba 65h83 I have noticed some problems with the picture quality. One of the major problems is that about 2 inches of the image is cut off on the left side of the screen, does anyone know how to resolve this issue?

Thank you in advance.

Help, after connecting my Xbox 360 to my Toshiba 65h83 I have noticed some problems with the picture quality. One of the major problems is that about 2 inches of the image is cut off on the left side of the screen, does anyone know how to resolve this issue?

Thank you in advance.

That's odd. I have my 360 hooked up via component and it is fine. Are you sure 1) the 360 settings are set to the correct resolution and 2) that the Tosh isn't set to one of the screen modifying settings for that input (ie it is on the "Natural" selection)?

That's odd. I have my 360 hooked up via component and it is fine. Are you sure 1) the 360 settings are set to the correct resolution and 2) that the Tosh isn't set to one of the screen modifying settings for that input (ie it is on the "Natural" selection)?

I am using Colorstream HD-1 and the 360 resolution is set at 1080i, yet 2 inches are still missing off of the left side. By the way Strangelove1, what are the settings on your TV and 360?

I am using Colorstream HD-1 and the 360 resolution is set at 1080i, yet 2 inches are still missing off of the left side. By the way Strangelove1, what are the settings on your TV and 360?

With the way they overscan these babies at the factory, it's always a crap shoot as to how much is going to get cut off, and where.

Reducing your overscan may help, but your 360 is evidently a bit off on its phase settings, compared to regular video material. Phase shifts the pic left and right.


Mr Bob

Would I neeed to go into service menu to reduce overscan? If so how would I access menu and which settings should I be looking to change?(I am a complete noob to this, any help would be appreciated)

Thank you.

Would I neeed to go into service menu to reduce overscan? If so how would I access menu and which settings should I be looking to change?(I am a complete noob to this, any help would be appreciated)

Thank you.


I'm sure others here can handle your request, a lot of them have already done it on their own displays. If you want personal instruction from me, contact me directly.


Mr Bob

Can anyone post instructions on how to reduce overscan on my 65H83? If you prefer you can send it to me at nasrin_rahman at hotmail dot com

Thank You

Hi all (Mr. Bob),

I encountered the convergence problem with my 42HDX82. I gathered up all the information from the internet about replacing the STK392-110 ICs and went ahead and replaced them. When I turn on the TV, I see the red LED is let but I get nothing (no sound or video).

I noticed that the connector (6 pins close to the backside of TV) on the metal box parallel to the STK heat sinks is missing connections. The other (farther) connector on this metal box is connected to the wires from the roll kind of thing on the vertical bracket.

I also noticed that a blue and white wire connector in the rear of the signal/conv board is not connected to anything. This set of wires originate from the power board connector P803.

A 5-6 pin connector (P113) on the signal/conv board is also not connected to anything.

I have the service manual but I cannot find how the connectors/wires mate to the connectors on the PCB.

I would appreciate it if you can help me debug my problem. I can post pictures tonight.

Thanks.

Just an FYI on these ICs. The STK392-110 has been a very unreliable part. It has been updated a couple of times by Sanyo. The last, best, replacement that I have used is the STK394-160 or -250. The 394 series chips run measurably cooler and seem to be less prone to counterfeiting and the bad batches of chips that we have seen with the 392-110.

The info on connections between the boards is surely in the manual, at least in the schematics.

Hi all (Mr. Bob),

I encountered the convergence problem with my 42HDX82. I gathered up all the information from the internet about replacing the STK392-110 ICs and went ahead and replaced them. When I turn on the TV, I see the red LED is let but I get nothing (no sound or video).

I noticed that the connector (6 pins close to the backside of TV) on the metal box parallel to the STK heat sinks is missing connections. The other (farther) connector on this metal box is connected to the wires from the roll kind of thing on the vertical bracket.

I also noticed that a blue and white wire connector in the rear of the signal/conv board is not connected to anything. This set of wires originate from the power board connector P803.

A 5-6 pin connector (P113) on the signal/conv board is also not connected to anything.

I have the service manual but I cannot find how the connectors/wires mate to the connectors on the PCB.

I would appreciate it if you can help me debug my problem. I can post pictures tonight.

Thanks.


How much did you have to disassemble in replacing those ICs? Did you have to remove the board, incuring unplugging of some of the wiring plugs? Did you write down all such removals, or mark them with various sets of matching dots or lines, plug to jack, before unplugging them?

IOW, did you put your bread crumbs down, like you're supposed to, so you could find your way back to your starting point?

I assume that when you started, the convergence was the only problem you had at that time. If everything had been restored to exactly how it was before - if you had noticed all these things before and had made written notations of them all - as long as your soldering was right and you re-heat sink compounded them thoroughly, none of this should have been occuring now.

You would be happily watching your set.

A simple repair is never ALWAYS just a simple repair! Great care needs to be taken, even in the apparently simplest of repairs. DIYers, if you don't want to man the learning curve on such things - which you may or may not find on the net - let someone in there who already has it down. Saving money on a tech requires that you be capable of all the in-between things you may or may not know about, in terms of procedures and other things techs pick up along the way.


Mr Bob

Thanks for the replies. I did take digital pictures but I cannot identify (view) these connectors clearly. I had a friend at my work replace the IC's who used electronic de-soldering vacuum so I don't think he has messed up the de-soldering/re-soldering of the new parts. He went through the correct procedure in removing the ICs, putting new ones, cleaning all the flux.

I suppose it is my fault for not taking adequate pictures and document it manually, but I think the schematics and knowledgeable people who have been through this will be able to point me to the correct solution.

What I don't understand is that I don't see those two connectors (P803 and P113) in the list within the service manual, whereas I see them clearly on the PCB's and in the PCB diagram in the manual.

Before I lay the blame on the new IC's, I would like to make sure that I have connected the boards perfectly as they were before.

Thanks for the replies. I did take digital pictures but I cannot identify (view) these connectors clearly. I had a friend at my work replace the IC's who used electronic de-soldering vacuum so I don't think he has messed up the de-soldering/re-soldering of the new parts. He went through the correct procedure in removing the ICs, putting new ones, cleaning all the flux.

The desoldering is never the issue, really, it's in the re-soldering that solder bridges can occur. But if your friend is experienced, you're prolly OK there.


I suppose it is my fault for not taking adequate pictures and document it manually, but I think the schematics and knowledgeable people who have been through this will be able to point me to the correct solution.

What I don't understand is that I don't see those two connectors (P803 and P113) in the list within the service manual, whereas I see them clearly on the PCB's and in the PCB diagram in the manual.

Before I lay the blame on the new IC's, I would like to make sure that I have connected the boards perfectly as they were before.


Good thought. You're on the right track.

Many revisions happen on circuit boards, long after service manuals have been printed. In response to calling in and having been informed about board revisions or circuit revisions that are not in the s manual I just procured, I have on several occasions mentioned to Mit tech assistance that they should be sending out all revisions and bulletins whenever they send out a service manual that has been purchased from them. They say that's not their job, and if I want to pursue it I have to go above them. I don't, I just thank them kindly and ring off...

But it stays true, that many changes don't make it into service manuals. I am sure this is true for Tosh as well.

I am sure the intrepid guys here will be able to help you out on this.

For everybody else - sorry if I monopolized your query with my message here, but it's an important message, so I hope you don't mind - we are all responsible for laying down our OWN bread crumbs!


Mr Bob

Again thanks for the reply. You were right that the PCB has indeed gone through some revisions nevertheless the schematics in the service manual are extremely useful.

After careful study of the Service manual I did find out that P803 from the power board goes to P813 on the Sig/Conv PCB. P813 was behind a large heat sink (with a FET) and hence I didn't notice it.

Also the service manual stated that P113 is "FOR SERVICE" which I would conclude is for test points and hence no corresponding connector.

Now the last piece of the puzzle is the 6 pin connector on the box which is parallel to the STK392. I assume that this has the Digital Convergence circuit. Now the 6 pin connector on the box is PH005 which the schematic says goes "To Jig of convergence adjustment". I cannot seem to find the corresponding cable for this and would appreciate some input. Is the Jig on the vertical bracket?

I will keep digging more into the scematics for the answer should be there.

Quick question has anybody connected a HTPC to your 65H84 I remember reading in the owners manual not to connect a PC to this unit. Anybody know why.

Thanks Ken

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to update you that my TV is working again. I replaced the STK-110 but clumsily did not connect one of the connector. My fault and lesson learned. I was able to get great help from Allan Wainwright at allexperts dot com which led me to the solution to the problem.

Thanks for moral support everyone.

Quick question has anybody connected a HTPC to your 65H84 I remember reading in the owners manual not to connect a PC to this unit. Anybody know why.

Thanks Ken


No reason to not connect HTPC to any CRT based HDready. They handle PC just fine, when the specs are matched up correctly.

Just watch out for screenburn if you should have a fixed image on there for any length of time. Computers are rife with fixed images.


Mr Bob

Glad you were able to to sort through your problem.

Congrats!

Rick

Can anyone tell me how I can reduce the amount of blue displayed on the Tosh? The blue is so hot that it overpowers the other colors. When I'm in convergence mode, it looks like the blue is blooming out and over even the grid.

Can anyone tell me how I can reduce the amount of blue displayed on the Tosh? The blue is so hot that it overpowers the other colors. When I'm in convergence mode, it looks like the blue is blooming out and over even the grid.


When one color is blooming - as you say, is out and over the grids - it's a focus problem on that color, and on blue when it's out of focus it becomes blue-white in the whites.

Most likely your blue Screen setting, from what you're saying, on the focus block trimpots. Be VERY careful of which one you turn, if you go there. Accidentally turning the wrong one can decimate your grayscale.


Mr Bob

Hey everyone.

I just recently noticed the same problem rahh man mentioned about overscan. A recent 360 game has some HUD items cut off on the edges, the first I've noticed the overscan issue.

I managed to change the settings to adjust the width of the image, enough at least that those HUD items are usable. This has brought on another issue though, as now I have a faint line down the left side of the picture, about half an inch from the edge. It's almost as if the original overscan value was set to hide this particular line.

As it stands now, since the overscan is only a problem with this one specific game, I'm just gonna keep these new settings for a couple weeks until I finish the game, and then put everything back to how it was originally.

That being said, if there's anything I can do to keep the overscan dialed down and get rid of that line, that would be great.

Thanks for any advice!
-Sean

Hey everyone.

I just recently noticed the same problem rahh man mentioned about overscan. A recent 360 game has some HUD items cut off on the edges, the first I've noticed the overscan issue.

I managed to change the settings to adjust the width of the image, enough at least that those HUD items are usable. This has brought on another issue though, as now I have a faint line down the left side of the picture, about half an inch from the edge. It's almost as if the original overscan value was set to hide this particular line.

As it stands now, since the overscan is only a problem with this one specific game, I'm just gonna keep these new settings for a couple weeks until I finish the game, and then put everything back to how it was originally.

That being said, if there's anything I can do to keep the overscan dialed down and get rid of that line, that would be great.

Thanks for any advice!
-Sean

Overscan on CRT RPTVs is a universal malady with them, instilled by the designers to save ciruitry and design investment, and lots of extra work on the part of the factory calibrators.

The problem is, taking in the overscan is easy. It's straightening out how badly it hoses the picture that's the challenge.

Not all edges of video material are set the same, which is another reason for the overscan.

You can't have it all, sad to say. I would prioritize the viewed broadcast or DVD'd video material, tho, over the game's edge.


Mr Bob

My 46H84 tv is about two (maybe 3?) years old now. Using Ant1 channel 2 (which is a non-digital cable channel) has started coming in with snow on the channel. All other channels are clear. If I bring channel 2 in thru my VCR with the TV set to channel 3, the picture is clear. Which says to me its the internal tuner on the tv which is having problems with channel 2, and only channel 2.

So I switched my cable to to Ant2 to see if that made a difference. Channel 2 is clearer than it was when using Ant1, but I'm not sure if it is as clear as it could be. Note that I do not have any cable spliiters. My cable goes into a VCR, and the output of the VCR into the TV.

Does the 46H84 have any fine tuner adjustments? I could not find anything in the menus. Has anyone else had any problems with receiving a particular channel? Any ideas on something to try?

-- Scott

My 46H84 tv is about two (maybe 3?) years old now. Using Ant1 channel 2 (which is a non-digital cable channel) has started coming in with snow on the channel. All other channels are clear. If I bring channel 2 in thru my VCR with the TV set to channel 3, the picture is clear. Which says to me its the internal tuner on the tv which is having problems with channel 2, and only channel 2.

So I switched my cable to to Ant2 to see if that made a difference. Channel 2 is clearer than it was when using Ant1, but I'm not sure if it is as clear as it could be. Note that I do not have any cable spliiters. My cable goes into a VCR, and the output of the VCR into the TV.

Does the 46H84 have any fine tuner adjustments? I could not find anything in the menus. Has anyone else had any problems with receiving a particular channel? Any ideas on something to try?

-- Scott


Sounds like your set's tuner is getting weak. Fortunately you can always use your VCR's tuner in place of the one inside your set.

But you should really connect up your VCR the right way - using ch. 3 is for ancient TVs that don't have Video or S Video IPs.

No modern tuner has fine tuner adjustments, BTW. It's all servo-locked, in there.


Mr Bob

anyone ever have a 57HX94 unit? I"M Looking to buy one this weekend from a guy it's rarely used he's like 80 yrs old; and I'm only using it for my 360,ps3, wii, and hi-def sports viewing. All for 400 bucks, is this a good decision, worth the low price? Or should i let it pass? Let me know! Email if needed is mitchND33@hotmail.com

Based on how much he probably paid for it new, $400 isn't all that bad.

However, based on just how obsolete CRT based HD sets are today, I think that is a lot of money. I don't think it even has a HD turner (ATSC or QAM).

If you shop around, you can find "last year's" LCD flat panels, new, for not that much more money.