Official Toshiba H83/H84 CRT Thread [Text View] - Page 9

Mr Bob

09-08-07, 04:37 PM

anyone ever have a 57HX94 unit? I"M Looking to buy one this weekend from a guy it's rarely used he's like 80 yrs old; and I'm only using it for my 360,ps3, wii, and hi-def sports viewing. All for 400 bucks, is this a good decision, worth the low price? Or should i let it pass? Let me know! Email if needed is mitchND33@hotmail.com

If he's taken proper care of it and not used it in Torch Mode extensively, nor allowed screen burn on it, that's a steal for CRT tech, which properly calibrated, is still head and shoulders better than most of the fixed pixel out there. 1080i on CRT is head and shoulders better than fixed pixel 720p, at roughly twice the resolution.

Ask him about the contrast settings he has always used, and take along an all white pattern to examine it for screenburn.

If there is none, I would hop on it.

Mr Bob

fumoffu

09-08-07, 05:57 PM

Not sure is I have a problem but my Toshiba H83 has very faint vertical lines on the set durring playback in all imputs. Everything looks great but when a really dark scene come on I can the a "prison bar" effect on the screen. If I turn the contrast from 60 down to 30 they almost go away but that makes the picture too dark. Any help would be great...........THANKS!!!!

I have just noticed the same problem on my 46HX83. I had this set for 4 years now and I am just now getting alot of 1080 inputs!

I spent a long time last night trying to figure it out. It's weird I never saw it before, if I did I may have just chucked it up to some kinda analog interferance with the HD cable tuner and such. I first noticed it with my new HD-A20 HD-DVD player, connected either by hdmi->DVI or component. It only happens at 1080i, it's fine at other resolutions... (did I try 720p w/ the set set to 1080i?). I was able to reproduce the exact same thing with a upconverting dvd player. Most of the time it looks fantastic! It just those dark scenes, like the begining of Fight Club, or just the HD-DVD logo on the black backgound when there is no disc in the player. The time I find it most distracting is when there is a dark panning shot, it just stays there.

I plan on keeping this set for a while, and it's hurting my HD-DVD enjoyment. :(

Any thoughts?

croman7777

09-21-07, 11:46 AM

Eben

09-21-07, 03:35 PM

Can anyone tell me how to reset the password lock on my 51h84 ? The password has locked out all the inputs. The service center wants to charge $300.00 to "try" to fix it for me. Any help is greatly appreciated!!

Thanks

Rich

Does this help?

Using the LOCKS menu
The LOCKS menu includes the V-Chip, CH Lock, Video Lock, and
New PIN Code functions. You can use these functions after entering the correct PIN code.
Entering the PIN code
1. Press MENU, and then press x or • until the LOCKS menu appears.
2. Press y or z to display the PIN code entering mode.
• Blocking Reset status:
Set your 4-digit code by pressing the Number buttons (0–9).
• When the PIN code is already stored:
Press the Number buttons (0-9) to enter the 4-digit PIN code used for blocking channels.
If the wrong PIN code is entered, the message “Incorrect”
appears. Enter the code again, and then press ENTER.

If you cannot remember your PIN code
1. While the PIN code entering screen is displayed, press RECALL four times within five seconds. The PIN code will be released (Blocking Reset status restored).
2. Set new 4-digit code, and then press ENTER.
The LOCKS menu appears.

judge_dredd

09-21-07, 10:36 PM

Roofus

09-25-07, 02:58 PM

Hey guys,
I have been having some serious issues with my 42H83. I had to have the main board replaced last month, and ever since then, it won't display my Xbox 360 and PS3 correctly.

When I am running my Digi box over DVI, it displays in "Full" mode, and the aspect ratio looks great.

But when I switch to Xbox 360 or PS3 over component since the install of the new main chip board, it only allows me to select "Natural" and "Theater Wide" 1-3, but I can't select "Full". Obviously this is zooming into the game and cutting off the edges of the screen where all the HUD type info appears in your game. So this makes a lot of games unplayable.

This is really freakin' irritating, and I don't understand why I could put my gaming systems in "Full" before and they looked great, and now since this board replacement it won't do "Full".

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

Mr Bob

09-25-07, 03:17 PM

Quick question,

I was thinking that I should probably clean the crt's on my 57H84C as I have never done it before. Is there something special I should buy to do it? I do have some Dust Off anti-static wipes that are good for flat panels lcd's and tube tv's, would those work.

Thanks.

Feel free to search the net, but if you want from the horse's mouth the techniques I have been using - for 20 years - for optics cleaning to pristine optical condition all points of the light path for CRT RPTVs, I am available for phone consultation.

Contact me directly.

Mr Bob

judge_dredd

09-27-07, 10:28 AM

Feel free to search the net, but if you want from the horse's mouth the techniques I have been using - for 20 years - for optics cleaning to pristine optical condition all points of the light path for CRT RPTVs, I am available for phone consultation.

Contact me directly.

Mr Bob

I actually opened it up and vacuumed everything out and then just used some lint free cloths water and a bit of cleaning solution.

It did make a noticable difference to the picture.

Thanks for the help.

Mr Bob

09-27-07, 03:51 PM

I actually opened it up and vacuumed everything out and then just used some lint free cloths water and a bit of cleaning solution.

It did make a noticable difference to the picture.

Thanks for the help.

On Tosh's I usually find that they need the deeper optics cleaning as well. Which requires that you carefully work around the built-in lenstriping they use in the red and blue guns, between the lens and the coolant cover.

Mr Bob

lcaillo

09-27-07, 04:45 PM

...and NOT removing the wrong screws!

Mr Bob

09-27-07, 05:26 PM

...and NOT removing the wrong screws!

OOH, yeah - the effect of partially conductive coolant falling onto the circuit boards below is NOT pretty -

:eek:

Mr Bob

Roofus

09-27-07, 05:44 PM

Mr Bob

09-27-07, 06:45 PM

No suggestions Mr. Bob?

Sorry, I don't work on Toshibas except for convergence repair. They are MOST technician unfriendly.

As to your problem, I haven't a clue. Something must be different between the old board and the new one.

Be in touch with your techs about this, it shouldn't be happening.

Mr Bob

lcaillo

09-27-07, 10:28 PM

Probably some difference in the programming of the EEPROM, perhaps some option settings are wrong. I am not familiar with the sets enough to be sure either, but this is a good example of why board swapping is a lousy repair procedure compared to component level repair. Could be a slightly different version of the board or the wrong setup.

llep64

10-05-07, 10:08 AM

eugovector

10-05-07, 10:19 AM

Hey guys , I have a problem , last nite I messed with the service menu settings and messed up my tv, could somebody please tell me the original preset values in the service menu settings for a 57h83? Please.
I talking about the rcut, gcut , vcut. I am sorry but I am new at this.

Dude, you broke the cardinal rule. You didn't write down your settings before you started. I'm reminded of this:

http://www.despair.com/mis24x30prin.html

Here's the good news, if I recall, I still have mine written down for a 51h83. I'll see if I do tonight.

Here's the bad news, from what I understand, the default settings can be different for each set. There's no guarantee that my defaults will match yours. But like I said, I'll see if I still have them tonight.

llep64

10-05-07, 10:28 AM

thanks man, I know I am bad!!!, I thank you for your help, ill wait for them. you , or any help is welcome email me at Luispineda9@aol.com

Mr Bob

10-05-07, 12:54 PM

I talking about the rcut, gcut , vcut. I am sorry but I am new at this.

These are set once the screen trimpots have been properly set, and depend totally on where the screen trimpots have been set.

On each unit these settings will be different, always starting with the trimpots. Please don't double your problems by even THINKING about touching those! You have already demonstrated your desire to be a cowboy and do it all yourself without the proper training and/or at least research, probably just to save yourself some money by not paying a professional to do it right.

And it doesn't stop there. If you are talking about the grayscale registers, you are also not being very observant in other areas, because there is no vcut. Bcut, but not vcut.

You are simply not paying attention, not thinking ahead of yourself more than a few seconds, looks like. This is NOT the way to improve your display's images. It takes a grounded, professionally oriented mindset, at the very least, to accomplish that. These beasts are far too sophisticated for a cowboy to get it right, by just flailing away in there till it improves.

It doesn't work that way.

One owner's settings will NOT do for another's.

You need an ISF grade calibration now. Guidance by phone COULD put you back where you were, with the proper reference gray to observe and the proper grayscale patterns and techniques. Call me and sign up for a consultation, if you'd like my help -

Please heed the warning just given to you above about writing down your starting points, if you intend to go in there again. This applies to EVERYBODY! Each of us is SOLELY responsible for OUR OWN trail of bread crumbs!

Every change you make to a Tosh automatically memorizes itself immediately, all except for the point convergence, which requires a 7 command to memorize, automatically erasing all the old settings.

Everything else stays changed once you change it, automatically erasing its old settings, without any special memorization commands whatsoever.

You change it, you better be willing to live with it, too.

Mr Bob

eugovector

10-06-07, 12:07 AM

thanks man, I know I am bad!!!, I thank you for your help, ill wait for them. you , or any help is welcome email me at Luispineda9@aol.com

My manuals are packed away somewhere, I'm going to have to dig them out. I need to leave town in about 5 hours, but I'll be back on Monday. I'll find them then.

Even though your current settings are wrong, write them down if you decide to get in there this weekend. At least you won't get too far off.

Good luck.

llep64

10-06-07, 04:50 PM

thanks eugovector, you are the man around here, I'll wait till monday. thanks again.

eugovector

10-08-07, 11:02 PM

Here's the defaults for my 51H83. Please write down your default settings before changing anything.

RCUT: 87H
GCUT: 80H
BCUT: 66H
RDRV: 40H
BDRV: 50H

Unless I didn't write it down for some reason, I don't have a GDRV.

I changed the RCUT to 77H and the RDRV to 3CH which seemed to help the obnoxiusly strong reds that these sets are notorious for. Maybe I did nothing, but to my eyes, changing these settings improved the picture greatly.

Hope that helps a little.

llep64

10-09-07, 05:58 PM

thanks a bunch, it really did help alot!!!!!
Iam in debt now.
Luis

eugovector

10-10-07, 12:33 AM

Just listen to a couple episodes of my podcast, we'll call it even.

Marshall

llep64

10-10-07, 05:31 PM

got it

Mr Bob

10-11-07, 03:14 AM

Unless I didn't write it down for some reason, I don't have a GDRV.

There is no need for a GDRV, as it stays maxed out at all times, doesn't need any attenuation, which is all that happens to the rest of the registers. This all used to be done with trimpots, which do nothing but variably attenuate whatever they affect, just like any gain control.

Everything else is relative to it, and it stays the same. It is the single fixed variable in the array.

My Panny does not have one of those drives either, possibly not the green, tho. Different sets have different absence of one color or another, on the drives. Very few have all 6, 3 cuts and 3 drives. Some only have 4!

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

10-12-07, 03:21 PM

You guys gotta check out what's happening over at the ceiling pjs section, where triple-gun CRT is king. My pic looks like those. Does yours?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11886630#post11886630

Scroll up to find the shots themselves.

:)

Mr Bob

WaltA

11-06-07, 02:44 PM

Can anyone post instructions on how to reduce overscan on my 65H83?

I am at the point of needing to ask about this too. :D

I am sure that my 46HX83 has always overscanned. However, I just chalked it up to the stretching of 4:3 images into 16:9 images by TW1.

Now, I am watching a lot more HD channels (thanks to my cable company), and I noticed that even on non-stretched HD 16:9 images, the set cuts off any bottom text and the corner channel ID's. Plus we have some small direct view LCD HDTV's in the house now, so I have something to compare against.

How does one adjust for overscanning? Is it as simple has finding the height and width settings in one of the service menus? What are the three character acronyms for height and width? In which service menu can they be found? :confused:

elfman12

11-06-07, 11:15 PM

Hi, I'm new here. Thanks for all the great info... I've been lurking and there's some great stuff put up here.

I own a Toshiba TW65H80, bought it in '99. Love it. Works great and has never really had any problems. Several years back I read up on the designer and service mode adjustments, and went to town with my DVE disc. Color stuff looks great (and I have all of my old setting written down just in case! somewhere...)

However, my convergence is warped, and I'm sure I did it. I was on the the big point page (59?) and worked for hours to align it to marks I had measured out on the frame. Well, I just have had some bad measurin' that day, because I have a slight "bulge" (no jokes please) horizontally, about 1/4 the way up the screen. It's not very noticable, until credits scroll or something similar, then you can see it going "over the hump".

Also, the convergence seems to have drifted off now based on what the input signal is. I ONLY use the Colorstream 2 input, and the amp switches the signals. I'm sending 1080i (HD-A2 HDDVD and Xbox 360) 720p (LG DirectTV) and 480i and 480p. I keep having to readjust when I switch around.

My question is: is there a master reset for convergence? I know that the color/luminance settings are different, since they are tuned to each set, but is there a way to "start over" with convergence? If not, what's the be place to start resetting things?

Also, I have misplaced the full lists of S and D mode adjustments... does anyone have a link to those?

Thanks for any help from anyone. I live in an are where I can't get a proper ISF guy without a 4 hour trip, so I'm kinda on my own with this one. So thanks!

Mr Bob

11-07-07, 11:50 AM

O'scan reduc is easy. Cleaning up the mess it makes of your formerly coherent pic is where the talent comes in. It hoses your picture redically, has an extremely long learning curve, and is different per the different brands. FI, Tosh does not allow for altering the invisible points outside the viewable screen area, where Mit and Pio do. Panny has a completely unique way of approaching that, different from all others.

If necessary, the 9 points have to be used to straighten out the pic before you go in to sm, which is the same on geom/conv whether your set has the advanced Designer mode or not. You may have to re-space the lines a bit in sm, but sm cannot straighten out curly-cues between points, which only the user 9 points can do.

What you mentioned is called Speed Bumping, and can be remedied but only in the sm. And no, 59 refers to Mit, not Tosh.

If you want private coaching on these and other calibration issues, I am available for phone consultation.

Calibrators of CRT tech are disappearing fast, with the marketing onslaught of fixed pixel. Better honor their experience, before nobody knows how anymore.

With CRT tech disappearing fast, that's the way it will soon be. Only career calibrators like myself will know how, after a certain point in the evolution of HD.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

11-07-07, 12:15 PM

A thorough optics cleaning will be needed at your set's age, as is true on all CRT RPTVs this age.

For Hits and Tosh's, that means also the deeper optics.

Mr Bob

dragonman0325

11-08-07, 05:39 PM

eugovector

11-08-07, 05:46 PM

dragonman0325

11-08-07, 06:03 PM

Could it be the Monoprice HDMI to DVI cable? Should I spend more?

eugovector

11-08-07, 08:53 PM

Could it be the Monoprice HDMI to DVI cable? Should I spend more?
Doubtful and no.

dragonman0325

11-08-07, 09:50 PM

I just connected my Dirct Tv Hd box via the DVI and it looks the exact same way.

eugovector

11-08-07, 10:06 PM

Sounds like that's a problem unique to your set. I use an Oppo over HDMI/DVI @ 1080i and it looks fine. I'd start by loading up one of the preset defaults and see if that makes the problem go away, and then use DVE or AVIA from there.

Good Luck.

dragonman0325

11-08-07, 10:20 PM

I believe I set it up wit DVE originally using components and then just switched over to DVI without going through DVE again. I have tried to adjust out of the black issue however and can't seem to make much difference.

elfman12

11-08-07, 11:52 PM

Ok, thanks for the info. I'm going to give it another go on the large grid, then have a look at the exposed optics, anyway.

dragonman0325

11-08-07, 11:53 PM

Well I just loaded DVE and it looks like there is something wrong with the DVI on my set. When using the pluge test pattern I can't see any of the verticle lines. Considering one is below black and the other two above I don't even know how this is possible. I tried reconnecting using the components and see all three lines and can adjust it. Now this unit only upconverts through HDMI and I've yet to find a disc that allows 1080i through component. Now I have no idea what to do. Is this something that may be able to be fixed? Before I get too far I'm going to purchase another HDMI to DVI cable and then look from there. I really love the picture quality of the Crt in 1080i but the black issue is killing it.

dragonman0325

11-09-07, 12:05 AM

Thanks for the input Rickie

I got the problem fixed going through these boards (AVS forum rocks)

the problem was fixed simply by changing the value of BCUT in the service menu. I had noticed that some of my blacks had a blueish taint on them.

Crazy the difference a little change like that made.

Anyway I hope this post can help someone down on the future.

The problem with the Last Samurai is fixed.
Now my blacks are black, I am so happy that this problem is fixed.

Could this be the my problem?

dragonman0325

11-09-07, 12:06 AM

Hi guys

I got a Toshiba 65H85

I got this issue when the camera moves from side to side in dark scenes. There is a lot of "garbage" in the image. It looks like some kind of pixelisation induced by the movement of the camera.

Also, I have never been satisfied a 100% by the blacks on my tv even if I have played with the brightness and contrast to death. Since CRTs are supposed to have the best blacks, I was wondering what could be wrong with my TV.
(A good example is 11 minutes into the Last Samurai...When Tom cruise looks at himself in the mirror....there is a lot of what seems to be compression artefacts in the black background....wondering if you guys see the same thing as I do)

I have tested many DVD players and it happens trough component or HDMI.

I would greatly appreciate any input and let me know if you need more detais.

thanks in advance

Michel

Here is his original post.

WaltA

11-09-07, 07:13 AM

I've had my H83 since it was available and have been very happy with it until today. I purchased a Toshiba A2 Hddvd plaer. After connecting it via DVI my blacks are terrible. During dark scenes there's no detail in the blacks. It's almost like severe macroblocking. Is this normal?

I have an 46HX83, and I just bought a Toshiba A35.

At first, I connected it up using the same cables I used for my old DVD player. Those were up to the component jacks. The HD-DVD movie "300" which came with my A35 is pretty dark with lots of blacks. It played just fine.

I just got yesterday, a HDMI to DVI-D cable. It was a basic $20, 10 foot long, cable. I did this after discovering that the unit can't upscale my old regular DVD's to 1080i using the A35's component outputs. I had to switch to using its HDMI output.

The HD-DVD movie "300" plays at least as good using the DVI input on my 46HX83. I ran the movie's special pop window mode, which allows one to compare the original movie footage to the after processed image (mostly contrast enhanced). I had no problem seeing the subtle details that remained in the dark areas.

Just out of curiosity, did you update your A2 to the latest firmware? I think that is version 2.5.

dragonman0325

11-09-07, 11:23 AM

Yes, I've updated to 2.5. After finding out my Direct tv HD box does the same thing when connected via DVI I'm sure its either my set or the cable.

Mr Bob

11-09-07, 12:26 PM

Yes, I've updated to 2.5. After finding out my Direct tv HD box does the same thing when connected via DVI I'm sure its either my set or the cable.

I am assuming your optics have been kept sparkling clean, because lack of detail in dark areas is one of the most blatant indicators that they need cleaning.

That said, if you have cranked your brightness up way high to where all black parts are filled in with way too much gray, and STILL don't see at least 1 of the 3 stripes on the left side of the DVE pluge pattern - and you do see shadow detail thru the 1080i component IP, on the same video material - then there's definitely something wrong with your DVI/HDMI IP on your Tosh display, esp. if the same thing happens on your Dish sat STB.

Since your unit is getting older - how old is it? - if you need parts replaced in it, you'd better hop on having it repaired before they are all gone at Tosh!

Mr Bob

dragonman0325

11-09-07, 12:39 PM

My set is almost 4 years old now. Its a 57h83. So where should I look for service? I love the set and would like to get it fixed if it's possible.

Mr Bob

11-09-07, 06:19 PM

My set is almost 4 years old now. Its a 57h83. So where should I look for service? I love the set and would like to get it fixed if it's possible.

I could tell you more if you had answered any of my questions.

Leave calibration to calibrators and repair to repairers. The combo - calibrators who are also professional repair people - is extremely hard to find. Besides myself, I can count the ones I know on maybe one hand.

Mr Bob

dragonman0325

11-09-07, 07:18 PM

Mr Bob

11-09-07, 10:27 PM

Sorry I thought I answered the question you asked as well as I could. What am I missing? Are the optics clean? Probably not sparkling clean but with component I get all three verticle lines in the pluge test where with DVi I do not. The set has not been calibrated. There is only one repair shop near me in Maryland and they did the original work on my Tv right after I bought it when the red gun whent bad. They had it for 8 months.

I asked if you had cranked the br way high, to see if the vertical lines appeared. Without this test we really don't know enough. You may have a different br floor on HDMI than you have on component. If those lines appear when you crank the br way up, then that's all it is, which can easily be remedied by where you set your br control.

If they don't appear when you do that, if the dark areas fill with haze without the 3 stripes - or at least 1 stripe - appearing, then your HDMI circuit is definitely malfunctioning, and you may need a new board for your display.

Mr Bob

dragonman0325

11-09-07, 10:49 PM

Mr Bob

11-09-07, 11:05 PM

Sorry I did'nt get the implied question. Yes I cranked the brightness way up and there are still no verticle lines on the pluge test through DVI. On the component they are visible at any setting on the Br. Where can I order a new board and where should I look to find someone to fix it?

Sounds like you've done your homework.

Don't really know which board you'll need nor how much of a bear it will be to install. I do know that Tosh's are most unfriendly to servicing, and I usually only do convergence repairs on them. In your case I would make an exception, simply because the problem here is rather isolated and can probably be handled via board replacement.

Or you can hire a local repairperson. I would prolly stick with a shop that is warranty status'd, with Tosh.

Mr Bob

dragonman0325

11-10-07, 12:56 PM

Mr Bob

11-10-07, 03:35 PM

Thanks for the help Bob. I was informed on another board that this was an issue with all of the H83's and there is no fix for this issue. Can someone with and H83 confirm that on the DVE pluge test you can see the verticle bars when connected via DVI?

That sucks.

But you don't need HDMI on a CRT RPTV anyway, for anything else than upconverting 480i->1080i. And you can find rare players on ebay that will do that upconversion over component. I have a brand new Samsung upconverting DVDP on my shelf I'll sell you if you wish, that will be fully hacked by the time you get it, for utilizing component for the regular DVD to 1080i upconversion.

For everything else, including HD, just use component. You can't do any better on a CRT based set by going HDMI anyway. On CRT tech, it's just another needless D/A-A/D conversion process that will stomp on your picture's efficacy yet another time again, on the way to your display screen.

Stick with having everything hitting your screen via component, and you won't have any of those worries, and the best picture possible for CRT tech to boot.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

11-10-07, 03:40 PM

Here's an awesome Home Theater article, on pulldown and framerates - don't miss it!

http://www.hometheatermag.com/gearworks/1106gear/

Mr Bob

dragonman0325

11-10-07, 04:14 PM

Bob do you have the 850 Samsung or the 950? Send me the price and I'll let you know.

etcarroll

11-11-07, 09:51 AM

D-man -

Can you point me to the board you mention, looks like I'm in the same boat. I have an A2, Monoprice HDMI - DVI cable into Tosh 57h83.

Watched SD version of Spiderman last night, and the blacks are horrid! The Tosh was ISF calibrated last Apr/Mar. but not the DVI input as it wasn't in use at the time.

And here's something I noticed, wonder if you did as well, it seems the blacks that were CGI created were the worst. If you know SM3, the fight scene in the subway with Sandman, a large portion of this is CGI, and it really looked bad.

I'll try a true HD-DVD later - Transformers - but not holding my breath.

May be time to get a new vid. display.

Thanks for the help Bob. I was informed on another board that this was an issue with all of the H83's and there is no fix for this issue. Can someone with and H83 confirm that on the DVE pluge test you can see the verticle bars when connected via DVI?

dragonman0325

11-11-07, 07:50 PM

Tranformers actually was'nt too bad. There are'nt too many dark shots in that movie, but 28 weeks later is horrid. The entire first scene is almost unviewable. On the good side once I switched it to component the pic was amazing. I mean better than any LCD or Plasma i have seen. I hate being able to see pixels and with the CRT adjusted properly its so clean and smooth in HD. I'm not giving up my Tv anytime soon as long as they don't keep us from using component.

Mr Bob

11-12-07, 07:50 AM

Bob do you have the 850 Samsung or the 950? Send me the price and I'll let you know.

841, which also does DVD Audio and SACD. And of course will arrive fully hacked for OPing 1080i on component.

I'll pm you on the price -

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

11-12-07, 02:19 PM

Probably should start a new thread on just the dvd player question but my Sony outputs progressive via components and my TV does the conversion to 1080i yes? Isn't that the point of the drop down 3:2 thingy?

What is the advantage of having the DVD player do so?

Sorry, inadequate data to respond. At least for me -

Don't know your display - what fomat, age, etc - nor your DVDP.

I can say that DVD upconversion is a separate phenom from 3:2 pulldown.

:o

Mr Bob

WaltA

11-12-07, 06:29 PM

In general if my TV will convert input signals to 1080i, why do I want my DVD player to upconvert?

Its because your DVD player can always do it better. The reason is that the DVD player can upconvert using the original digital data from the DVD disk, before anything gets a chance to molest it.

In contrast, your TV will be left with what ever poor quality signal presented to it, and has to attempt to upconvert using that.

Mr Bob

11-12-07, 07:15 PM

I wasnt so much asking about specifics as it relates to my hardware. In general if my TV will convert input signals to 1080i, why do I want my DVD player to upconvert? Aren't we getting over saturated with devices that will all do the same thing?

Very few CRT RPTVs upconvert what's sent to it to 1080i. Only the Pioneer x30 series and the late model Sony's, that I know of.

Other RPTVs simply upconvert 480i to 480p and let it go at that. That's why I said I didn't have enough info to help you. I still don't.

The answer above is usually correct, if you are using a true upconverting 480i->1080i DVDP. However, if you are using the Pioneer x30 series, the upconversion is excellent, even tho it has to use data that is by then far removed from the original digital stream.

This is also true of Faroudja, Runco scalers, and the DVDOs. Their upconversion processes are so sophisticated that they can perform better than natively upconverting DVDPs, even tho the upconverting DVDPs get to use original digital data and the brands mentioned can't. They have to use data that has already left the building.

Mr Bob

WaltA

11-13-07, 10:02 AM

Very few CRT RPTVs upconvert what's sent to it to 1080i. Only the Pioneer x30 series and the late model Sony's, that I know of.

Other RPTVs simply upconvert 480i to 480p and let it go at that. That's why I said I didn't have enough info to help you. I still don't.

Maybe we are talking about different things, but the Toshiba H83/H84 can only display in either 540p or 1080i. That's it. So, everything that is inputed has to upconverted to either 540p or 1080i (if not already) before being displayed.

Mr Bob

11-13-07, 01:59 PM

Maybe we are talking about different things, but the Toshiba H83/H84 can only display in either 540p or 1080i. That's it. So, everything that is inputed has to upconverted to either 540p or 1080i (if not already) before being displayed.

Right. Has been the case with Tosh's for years.

But 540p is NOT 1080i. They share the same memory banks, such that when you calibrate the 1080i for image structure it automatically covers 540p, but as far as deciphering what's necessary to UPCONVERT and rescale 480 - or in this case 540p - to 1080i, no, I don't believe it does.

True upconversion circuits synthesize the intervening lines necessary to form a true 1080i picture - even tho it's not true HD. The Sigma 8500 chipset was used in the LiteOn, Momitsu, Bravo and Denon DVDPs in the early days of 480i-p upconversion, and were highly successful in putting that out on component until HDCP came along and required HDMI for such things from then on.

That's how the Faroudja DCDI chip for 480i->p DVDPs became so popular. They had been using similar tech for years in their $20K line doublers, triplers and quadruplers. It was no big stretch for them to come out with something easily affordable, to do this with 480i->p, then 480i->1080i.

Just doubling/directly duplicating the 540p lines to form 1080i, is not the same thing. Not even close.

I believe everything that goes in as 480 comes out as 540p. Period. NOT 1080i. The Tosh is not an upconverting display, that I have seen, unless they have changed things since I did one. Which was awhile ago, so it's emminently possible, I suppose -

On the last one I calibrated - even tho yes, it did upconvert all 480i/p to 540p - the only way to get 1080i to the screen was to SEND IN 1080i.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

11-14-07, 11:15 AM

All I know is that I have 1080i selected and that is what the display says it is. I have no idea if it actually IS 1080i. But that would be major time false advertising and labeling wouldn't it if it didn't?

So the DVD player is set to progressive out via components, RPTV set to 1080i. Looks quite good.

You are saying that even if the tv is set to 1080i it will display 540 unless it has a 1080i input?

The 46H83 manual, I know what am I thinking reading the manual, says it converts the signal to 540 or 1080i depending on what you set, 540 or 1080i. So how does it convert to 1080i if it isn't upconverting in some form?

As I said above, they can simply double the 540p and get 1080i to the screen, such that the screen then SAYS 1080i. And it is 1080i at the screen.

It just isn't UPCONVERTED 1080i, where they have actually synthesized the intervening lines necessary for it to be 1080 individual and different lines showing.

Every line in the 540 has simply been doubled, such that there are now twiced as many of them, each one repeating once before the scanning goes onto the next.

As such it will be much more mulchy than truly upconverted 1080i, with essentially only half the potential vertical rez of true 1080i.

Mr Bob

bobditty

11-14-07, 03:23 PM

eugovector

11-14-07, 03:46 PM

I have an A2 HD DVD, Monoprice HDMI to DVI, and 46H83. Do you need me to test anything. I'm not happy at all with the HD DVD player on this tv. Any suggestions? I was thinking of selling it and buying a DLP tv to take full advantage of this DVD player.

I have the 51H83, and am happy with the HD-DVD picture, but SD-DVD, compared to my Oppo 981, is very poor. Is it the HD or SD picture that is disappointing you?

dragonman0325

11-14-07, 04:26 PM

I have an A2 HD DVD, Monoprice HDMI to DVI, and 46H83. Do you need me to test anything. I'm not happy at all with the HD DVD player on this tv. Any suggestions? I was thinking of selling it and buying a DLP tv to take full advantage of this DVD player.

Yes on very dark movies is your Tv crushing blacks into one non-detailed black blob? 28 weeks later is a good one to use to test. The first 10 min are junk via DVI. Now take that DVD player and connect via good component cables. Now use DVE to set it up. My pic is nothing less than amazing. As good as any pic I've seen on any Tv.

dragonman0325

11-14-07, 04:28 PM

I have the 51H83, and am happy with the HD-DVD picture, but SD-DVD, compared to my Oppo 981, is very poor. Is it the HD or SD picture that is disappointing you?

Because my DVI connected pic is so bad I gave up on using it to upconvert SD. It only upconverts via DVI so the SD via component will only be in 480p. The Oppo does a good job at upconverting so I'm not surprised it looks better.

Mr Bob

11-15-07, 10:02 AM

I have an A2 HD DVD, Monoprice HDMI to DVI, and 46H83. Do you need me to test anything. I'm not happy at all with the HD DVD player on this tv. Any suggestions? I was thinking of selling it and buying a DLP tv to take full advantage of this DVD player.

Check out my website, and the HD freezeframe on the cover. Fully cleaned and calibrated, yours should look essentially like that. Does it?

If it does not, it needs the touch of the master's hand. All CRT RPTVs can look essentially that good on true HD. I say essentially because nobody does HD better than Panny. I used my 65" Panny CRT - fully calibrated and for sale, BTW - for that cover shot.

But Tosh CRT does an entirely respectable job with true HD when fully dialed in. You should be having a gangbusters HD pic from your HD DVDP. No need to sell it and buy DLP. CRT is still king, in my book.

Mr Bob

dragonman0325

11-15-07, 04:18 PM

Yeah I'll put my pic up against any DLP or fixed pixel display when it comes to movies. Sports may be a bit different but for film it's awesome.

DanteV

11-19-07, 07:37 PM

eugovector

11-19-07, 10:56 PM

If it has like a red glow I'd say your red is too high. Did you try lowering the red via the service menu? RCUT/RDRV I believe.

STOP!!

Write down your current settings before changing them.

Also, the avia and DVE disks have color% patterns that you can use with the included filters to determine your problem area.

Mr Bob

11-20-07, 01:31 PM

STOP!!

Write down your current settings before changing them.

Also, the avia and DVE disks have color% patterns that you can use with the included filters to determine your problem area.

Keep in mind that grayscale is STRICTLY for b/w, and color decoding is for when color is present. Grayscale has to be done with NO color present, on strictly b/w material/patterns. Color decoding needs special color bars patterns, which are very challenging to find for HD.

Both ops have to be done on the br/contrast levels you will be watching, while viewing. Unless you are really pushing your contrast to near Torch Mode, in which case they have to be done while rared back a ways. Bottom line, while still within linear operating range.

2 vastly different kettles of fish.

Mr Bob

VBM

11-20-07, 04:25 PM

Pekingman

11-20-07, 05:14 PM

I was using AVIA the other day with my 57H84 and I noticed that the sharpness control in the user menu had absolutely NO control over the picture. Anyone else have this issue??

Mr Bob

11-21-07, 12:27 PM

Hey guys... I'm brand new here and hoping someone can help me out with a problem....I've had my set for about 2 years and loving it, until recently. Suddenly I am having video problems. My video randomly becomes very dark and fuzzy...this usually occurs when I first turn it on (cold)....sometimes it stays this way...sometimes it jumps back and forth between a "normal clear" display back to the fuzzy picture....this may happen often, or it can go in one mode or the other and just stay that way... The dark fuzzy mode is difficult to watch so, out of desperation I went to the set and rocked the back up and down (modified "drop test") and the picture returned to normal....this doesn't appear to work EVERY time...but after rocking it back and forth a few times I can usually get the clear picture back... any thoughts? Thanks in advance

There is some cold solder joint in your sys, that is making and breaking contact in response to the rocking motion.

It MAY be visible to a tech's eye, it may not be. Some bad conn's are not visible, tho most are.

If there is one, there may be others. If you can locate the right section the problem is in - possibly by pressing on the board in question or pushing against the tall buildings on that board, like transformers and heat sinks - it can prolly be cured by resoldering all the connections in that section, no matter how small.

If you do, be VERY careful of solder bridges, which are inadvertent connections between points that happen when you soldering on automatic, and are not paying attention.

Use excellent lighting, and go over it and over it a couple of times with a fine tooth comb - magnifying glass, 3.5 power reading glasses - before turning it on again.

Mr Bob

VBM

11-21-07, 03:44 PM

Thanks Mr. Bob. I assumed it was a loose connection somewhere and wondered if it was common and if others have experienced it. I've done some soldering in my time, but this isn't something I feel comfortable attempting because of the collateral damage I might cause. That leaves me with calling in service (it's out of warranty) and hoping I find the one repairman in a dozen that might have a clue how to troubleshoot it and fix it. bummer

bobditty

11-22-07, 09:20 AM

I'm having an issue that I hope someone can help me with. My screen seems to stretch to the right and therefore have some image that I do not see. For instance, when viewing ABC HD OTA, I see only half the ABC symbol. Also, when viewing the normal contact content, the black bar on the left is bigger then the black bar on the right, telling me that it is not centered.

Is there a service menu option where I can adjust this? It seems to be this way for all inputs (DVD, HD OTA Receiver, DVI Computer connection). Let me know if there are any adjustments I can make. I can't do any of the theatrewide settings because it states 'not available' when viewing in HD.

Thanks for any help!

bobditty

11-22-07, 09:31 AM

By the way, Dragonman, I forgot to update you. I went to do the test for you and my HD DVD player died. I had called Toshiba and had to send it in. Argh, so I couldn't do the test for you. It will be 3 to 6 weeks before they say I will get it back. Anyway, just wanted you to know why I didn't test this for you.

WaltA

11-22-07, 10:11 AM

I'm having an issue that I hope someone can help me with. My screen seems to stretch to the right and therefore have some image that I do not see. For instance, when viewing ABC HD OTA, I see only half the ABC symbol. Also, when viewing the normal contact content, the black bar on the left is bigger then the black bar on the right, telling me that it is not centered.

I think that is overscan we all suffer from. ;)

As to a 4:3 image not being centered, I get that on some HD channels too. However, it isn't centered on my LCD set either. So, I assume that some HD channels simply broadcast off-centered 4:3 images. :eek:

bobditty

11-22-07, 09:47 PM

Gotcha. Thanks WaltA!

dragonman0325

11-25-07, 01:03 PM

Thanks Bob let me know what you find out.

HIGHDEF

11-25-07, 04:55 PM

Hi,

I followed Pittdog1's instructions for cleaning my lenses, electronic focus and 56 pt convergence. Everything went well and the picture is definitely crisper with the exception that either the red gun is too high or the green and blue are too low. When watching Football the field looks brown. I also noticed when there is no output to the TV there is a red hue.

I would greatly appreciate any advice on how I can correct this.

Thanks

Hey can you tell me where pittdog1 cleaning instructions are? I've had my 46h84 for about 3 years now. The picture still looks great but I noticed what looks to be a little dust being projected up on the right hand corner. It's very subtle but enough to make me want to clean it up. Thanks for any help on what page pitdog1s cleaning guide is on.

Mr Bob

11-26-07, 11:43 AM

Mr Bob

11-26-07, 11:44 AM

Mr Bob

11-26-07, 11:45 AM

Thanks Bob let me know what you find out.

Forgive me, life has kept me way too busy lately - find out about what?

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

11-26-07, 11:47 AM

I think that is overscan we all suffer from. ;)

As to a 4:3 image not being centered, I get that on some HD channels too. However, it isn't centered on my LCD set either. So, I assume that some HD channels simply broadcast off-centered 4:3 images. :eek:

Keeping the HD centered properly has to be prioritized, and take precedence over any other 1080i centering, esp. upconverted 480i slop. Like non-HD commercials that appear in the middle of HD programs.

If the sidebars are not perfectly centered on this channel or that, C'est La Vie. Some channels may be centered wrong on one direction and some on the opposite. Gotta just roll with it.

As long as the HD is centered correctly, you'll be getting the maximum value out of your centering.

Mr Bob

dragonman0325

11-26-07, 10:30 PM

The other Bob

Mr Bob

11-27-07, 02:16 AM

The other Bob

Oh

Dijuno?

12-08-07, 04:31 PM

stratuslover

12-08-07, 05:10 PM

Hi Guys,

I have searched and searched for some kind of clue. Hopefully someone here can help me.

I just moved my TV from one room to another. I had to unscrew the TV and get into two pieces. Once we move it and put it back to together. The screen is crooked. It is tilted Clockwise. I have tried to unscrew and kinda wiggle/Move the upper screen piece to see if I could get it right. With no luck.

Is there something that Im not seeing that could of moved during the move? We didnt even bump it in my opinion, we did carry it and perhaps carried it uneven for a few feet. Even as I move the upper part, the picture itself appears not to turn in the right direction. So its my guess the problem may lay in the lower section. Im kinda hoping there is some kind of adjustment down by the guns or something.

Any kind of help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Jeremy

Michigan
57" H83

Mr Bob

12-10-07, 01:14 PM

I have a 46H84 that seems to have some sort of short in the speakers. The speaker on the right stays on constantly and the left speaker will drift on and off. Now usually, this doesn't matter because I'm using the sound system, not the television's speakers.

Anyway, I can walk up to set and touch it and the sound will pop back on. When I let go, the sound may or may not stay on for that left speaker. The set has been in one place for more than two years and not moved. Any thoughts on what it might be and how to go about tracking it down to repair?

Most likely a cold solder joint somewhere. I would start by tracking down where the spkr wires inside your set go, to the board they come from. The plug-in would be the most likely suspect up front, tho you may have to look very carefully at the entire audio section, and it may not be a visibly bad joint.

But the speaker wire plug-in will at least show you where the audio section is, and you can go from there.

I would poke and prod with something very NON conductive in there, while the set is running, to see if I could replicate that problem via touching things in the audio section of the board. That could narrow it down for you.

Worst case scenario, I would resolder the entire audio section very carefully.

It could be a bad connection inside the speaker connections themselves.

Gotta chase this one down!

Mr Bob

pittdog1

12-11-07, 06:23 PM

Hey can you tell me where pittdog1 cleaning instructions are? I've had my 46h84 for about 3 years now. The picture still looks great but I noticed what looks to be a little dust being projected up on the right hand corner. It's very subtle but enough to make me want to clean it up. Thanks for any help on what page pitdog1s cleaning guide is on.

Having a hard time finding the time to spend here at AVS any more. :(
To anyone else who wants the instructions and pic's i'll post the link to the page at the end of this post(it's about halfway down the page in the link).
Well worth doing for sure. For anyone who is unsure if they are capable of doing it or not, calling MrBob would be worthwhile and reassuring. That said though, it really isn't to difficult if common sense is used and the set is unplugged for the cleaning and taking apart. Here's the link, and i'm going to try to make it a point to get back here at least a couple of times a week:)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=425650&page=60

HIGHDEF

12-20-07, 05:24 AM

Having a hard time finding the time to spend here at AVS any more. :(
To anyone else who wants the instructions and pic's i'll post the link to the page at the end of this post(it's about halfway down the page in the link).
Well worth doing for sure. For anyone who is unsure if they are capable of doing it or not, calling MrBob would be worthwhile and reassuring. That said though, it really isn't to difficult if common sense is used and the set is unplugged for the cleaning and taking apart. Here's the link, and i'm going to try to make it a point to get back here at least a couple of times a week:)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=425650&page=60

Excellent pittdog1!! I'm going to give this a try soon!

Also, anyone know what a slight streak on the side of my screen be caused by? I only usually notice on white,blue or light backgrounds. On one side of my 46H84 I see what looks to be a slight streak of dust. It's probably just dust caught on the inside of my screen right? I can't clean it off so I'm just curious. I'd like to just try and clean my whole set. I'd just like a few more details on disassembly. Reading the how-to's now.

caseydavs

12-20-07, 01:00 PM

New to the forums, but I appreciate the information I've seen. Wondering if anyone could help me with my 57H84.

I have a Toshiba A1 HD-DVD player hooked up via HDMI to the 57H84. I have everything set as 1080i. When I put in an HD-DVD (Transformers is one that I tried), it's a good picture, but not that "wow" factor. Anyone have brightness, contrast, etc. settings that they could share with me. Should it be on "film" or "movie" on the tv settings? On some far away shots on the movie, I can see some graininess. I'm not sure if I'm just expecting too much out of a RPT, from looking at LCDs and Plasmas. I'm getting the Planet Earth HD-DVD and I just wanted to optimize my settings and connections so I get the best possible picture. I do have component cables (if those would actually be better than the HDMI), but I thought that HDMI was supposed to be better. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Casey

Mr Bob

12-20-07, 01:35 PM

I do have component cables (if those would actually be better than the HDMI), but I thought that HDMI was supposed to be better. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Casey

I don't believe HDMI will be better on any CRT RPTV. Haven't done an AB on it, but HDMI is just another unecessary up/down digital conversion, and analog sets use RGB as their final stage, not digital.

And component is the closest thing to RGB possible. It's all I use on my 2 analog CRT sets, the Panny 65 and the Mit 73. Don't own a digital set at all, not interested, nor have I taken the trouble to even try out HDMI on my Mit, which is HDMI equipped.

Am fabulously happy with my present component-fed HD, on both sets.

Mr Bob

caseydavs

12-20-07, 01:45 PM

I don't believe HDMI will be better on any CRT RPTV. Haven't done an AB on it, but HDMI is just another unecessary up/down digital conversion, and analog sets use RGB as their final stage, not digital.

And component is the closest thing to RGB possible. It's all I use on my 2 analog CRT sets, the Panny 65 and the Mit 73. Don't own a digital set at all, not interested, nor have I taken the trouble to even try out HDMI on my Mit, which is HDMI equipped.

Am fabulously happy with my present component-fed HD, on both sets.

Mr Bob

So, even though the set is a "HD-Ready" tv and has the HDMI connection, it's not really going to take advantage of it?
Maybe I'll try the component cables again and see if that makes a difference. Any ideas on settings? The Toshiba has a film or movie setting and then I wasn't sure about the brightness, contrast, and sharpness. Thanks for the help.

Mr Bob

12-20-07, 02:53 PM

So, even though the set is a "HD-Ready" tv and has the HDMI connection, it's not really going to take advantage of it?
Maybe I'll try the component cables again and see if that makes a difference. Any ideas on settings? The Toshiba has a film or movie setting and then I wasn't sure about the brightness, contrast, and sharpness. Thanks for the help.

The only advantage of HDMI on analog sets equipped with it will be for upconversion of SD 480i DVDs to 1080i display, which due to HDCP can no longer be done via component on present-day DVDPs.

Otherwise, use component HD for analog CRT displays, including HD DVD and BluRay. It's the closest thing to RGB, which is what birthed HD.

And prepare to be impressed, if your set's optics are clean and it is well dialed in.

Prepare to be blown away if it is professionally cleaned, overscan reduced and fully calibrated for image structure, including focusing, geometry, and convergence. And to ISF standards for the rest of it.

If you want to see what well calibrated CRT can do, check out the Screenshot War!!!!!!! thread, in the Front Pj section of this AVS area.

Mr Bob

Ted_K

12-20-07, 04:39 PM

pittdog1

12-20-07, 08:03 PM

I have an observation that i would like to add when it comes to DVI/HDMI vs. component (red, green,blue). On EVERY(yes every) ,TW HD cable box iv'e had on my set, The HDMI/DVI out looks noticeably better. What Mr Bob stated above is correct though, and it shouldn't really look much if any different. But in all 4 cases on my set the DVI/Hdmi out looked better. This was debated some time back either here or on another thread, and the general feeling was that it probably had to do with implimentation of the outputs on the cable boxes. In other words more quality or money spent on the DVI/HDMI side of things than the RGB side. I would definitely tell all of you to try both ways including Mr Bob. But what i'm telling you is serious, there was a noticeable difference. That being said, i have my blu-ray player(Sony BDP300) hooked up via componenet and outputting 1080i and it looks fantastic and better than HD 1080i
via TW cable and HDMI/DVI. I never even tried the HDMI out on the Blu-ray player as i watch more Cable than Blu-ray and i all ready know that i like the picture from my cable box better via Hdmi/DVI.

caseydavs

12-21-07, 07:37 PM

Casey,

I just noticed that Mr. Bob beat me to the punch, but:

I have the 46H84, and my HD-DVD/BD experience is excellent. Definitely use "Film" setting, but sharing my other settings would not really benefit you, as each set has its own characteristics. Keep in mind that the "wow" factor (I really hate that term!) varies from movie to movie, video vs. movie, etc. When you say "looking at LCDs and Plasmas", do you mean at BB, CC and other stores? If so, they pump the brightness and contrast so high that if you look closely, you'll see that it's not that better a picture, just more flashy. Also, have you had the set cleaned (optics especially) and/or calibrated? Makes a big difference! I had mine done in August after almost 3 years and I couldn't believe the difference. I'll be cleaning the optics at least every year to keep that great film-looking picture. HDMI vs. component shouldn't be a major difference, if at all. If Planet Earth doesn't do it for you, then you probably need to to some work, particularly in the cleaning area.

Good luck!

Thanks for the info everyone. I have the TV on a maintenance plan with Sears and they clean the optics once a year (at least the main optics--not sure if there are other things to do). I probably should have a calibration done. I did test the component cable and there are little to no differences with the picture from when I was using the HDMI. I may keep doing some testing. Even if I have a different set, would someone mind sharing their general ideas about settings (brightness, etc.) on a Toshiba RPT? That might help me. I just want to see if I'm in the right ballpark. The picture does look nice as it is. Just want to see if it can be any better. Thanks!

wonderboy905

12-23-07, 02:05 AM

I have a Toshiba 51H84. In February I'll be moving into a basement apartment and will need to carry the tv a considerable distance to get it to the rear entrance, even then it will be tricky because the stairs are quite steep so it will be a really tight fit, it will also require a much stronger friend or two to help move the beast.

I've heard of people taking units like this apart into two to move them and then re-assembling them. It seems as if this would make life a thousand times easier for me, and would also allow me to entirely move all of my belongings in a small car since my furniture is mostly Ikea stuff that can be taken apart.

Looking at the unit itself it seems as if this can be done, however I don't have the tools, know-how or instructions on how to do it. The manual does not seem to say much.

I tried a thread search and couldn't find this info, does anyone with this or a similar model have any experience with splitting this unit into two and re-assembling? Any help or input at all would be much appreciated. It would make life easier, and would be less risky to both the tv and the person's involved moving it if we could take this sucker apart.

Thanks in advance

Mr Bob

12-23-07, 12:01 PM

I know of no brands that split apart on such a small unit. On the 55s and 65s and 73s yes, but not on the 51s.

Remove your screen, that will save you some weight. Remove your (glass!) mirror and back, and that will save you some more weight. Perhaps the lenses, but prolly not, as that would make it too easy to mix them up upon reassembly; just not orienting them correctly later will change an otherwise cool convergence, and mixing them up with each other will change the focusing...

Removing the speakers might help, but make sure the polarity stays the same later as it originally was, or you'll lose bass response from the woofers being out of phase with each other.

I'd say removing the CRT array, but it would be so easy to break something that way -

Whatever you can remove, try to remove. They are much more easy to work with when essentially hollow.

Good luck!

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

12-23-07, 12:07 PM

Thanks for the info everyone. I have the TV on a maintenance plan with Sears and they clean the optics once a year (at least the main optics--not sure if there are other things to do). I probably should have a calibration done.

I would never trust ESP people with my irreplaceable optics, as far as cleaning goes. They are plastic lenses and front surface mirrors, and scratches/scuffs are permanent.

And yeah, you should have a calibration done! You would be blown away with what you've been missing.

Mr Bob

wonderboy905

12-23-07, 12:20 PM

Thanks for the response Mr Bob. In my searches I did find a thread where someone mentioned they took apart the 46" model of the same tv to move it. Looking at the unit it appears that the top half can come off the bottom and there are screws in place at the back right where the unit appears to be divided into two. I don't just want to try this without someone here confirming it first and giving me some tips... if you're right I'll look into removing what components I can to help make re-locating it easier.

Thanks for your response, can someone please confirm that I can't take the unit apart? I'll book the cargo van now if this is the case.

eugovector

12-23-07, 12:25 PM

kmagate

12-24-07, 02:42 AM

How do I hook up a PS3 to my 46H83 tv? What cable should I get?

kmagate

12-25-07, 03:43 AM

I have tried the component cable for hooking my PS3 to my 46H83 with no success. Please help. I really want to play PS3 on this tv. Is there a setting that I am missing?

pittdog1

12-25-07, 12:06 PM

I'm not sure what kind of problem you're having as it should play fine via component cables. Make sure you have the player set to output 1080i not 1080p as your set will not display 1080p. Make sure you have the correct component input selected on your set. And that all the correct settings are chosen in the PS3 as well. It should work fine.

Mr Bob

12-25-07, 12:19 PM

Whenever I encounter problems with getting component to the screen, I connect up Y ONLY. That will deliver a pure b/w pic, if everything's working right, and that way you can't get y, pb and pr mixed up at all.

Pb and Pr are only for color differencing. Y has it all. If Y doesn't work, trying pb and pr won't help, as they depend on Y being HU'd, to have any effect at all. Unless they are plugged in wrong at the other end, with either of them plugged into the Y by mistake...

Mr Bob

Airwrench

12-26-07, 12:43 AM

Not to change the subject, but I have a question about a tosh 57hx94 I was hoping someone can answer. Lately it seems that the tuner wont hold channels for any longer then a day or two. I am using a roof top antenna which hasn't moved and no new obstructions have appeared. I live only about 8 - 11 miles from the station antennas. What happens is I will do the channel set up and save it. Later in the same day or next day the tv will drop some of the digital channels and if I clear all the channels and scan and save again I will usually get my dropped channels back. Signal strength is good on the dropped channels by way of the tv's signal meter. I am wondering if my tuner is going bad?
Any help is always appreciated.

thanks:)

Zawada

12-26-07, 02:41 PM

Hey guys, my dad just bought an XBOX 360 and hooked it up to his 51H83 set. I was wondering what settings everyone was using for the 360. Is there a general setting that everyone is using? Maybe someone who has performed a test disc could please post their settings?

andrewdonovan

12-29-07, 04:09 PM

pittdog1

12-29-07, 08:12 PM

I have a 4 yr old 46h83 rear projection, have had great luck with it, great HD picture, no problems yet.

I remember reading when I bought the tv that something pricey will go around 3-4 years in, what is that part that fails after usage- bulbs, lamps, crts? Does this unit have bulbs that I should expect to see fail in the near future? Will I need to replace the "CRT"? What is the average repair cost for such a part?

Thanks for taking the time to educate me.

No bulbs or lamps in your set, which is the same model as mine. The parts you are probably referring to are the IC convergence chips. There have been very few problems reported by owners of these sets if you read through these posts here. There is no set time for anything to go bad in your set. The convergence parts are typically what goes bad during the life of a CRT RPTV. But they could last the life of the set, no way to tell until you see your picture separate into red green and blue colors(kind of like a 3D image without the 3Dglasses on). Just enjoy it and read through this MAMMOTH thread, lot's of good info on here.:D

By the way, here is a link to what the inside of your set looks like. The red green and blue guns(CRT's) are doing the job of a bulb and chipset, color wheel, etc... in other types of RPTV's. If they go out you're probably better off to buy another set(very pricey to replace) and the availability of them is becoming scarcer all the time. Here's the link. go about half way down the page.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=425650&page=60

andrewdonovan

12-29-07, 08:41 PM

You the man, thanks for taking the time. You have the Toshiba 46h83 also? I've had nothing but great times with it, HD sports look great for a rear projection. I will check out the links you recommended. Spent about an hour scrolling through the thread before I posted, lots of good stuff, hope to have the set for a few more years. Thanks again.

pittdog1

12-30-07, 04:51 PM

No problem. The link that i gave you is pic's and instructions on taking apart our set as well as cleaning the lenses , mirror etc.. as well as focus adjustments. Yes, i have the same set and the pics in the link are of my set. I have pics of my set up in the rear projection gallery as well. The link just takes you to i think page 60 of this thread or there abouts. Good luck, and i'm still enjoying mine as well.

Tbone2K

12-31-07, 09:39 AM

Has anyone had any problems with HDMI not working with some devices?

Back story: I have a 65H84c and I posted this in another group, but got no response. I got a Samsung HD870 upconverting DVD. I connected it via HDMI, but the option to use HDMI on the player is disabled. According to the Samsung documentation, if the player detects HDMI, it should enable automatically.

Having said that, I had problems with getting the player to stay on component video as well. It kept changing back to S-Video every time I changed TV inputs, or reset the DVD player. Which was really annoying since I didn't have S-Video connected. I took the player back and exchanged it for the next model up, which they are shipping to me today. Hopefully it works better and it isn't some incompatibility between the Samsung electronics and the way this set works.

Mr Bob

12-31-07, 05:47 PM

By the way, here is a link to what the inside of your set looks like. The red green and blue guns(CRT's) are doing the job of a bulb and chipset, color wheel, etc... in other types of RPTV's. If they go out you're probably better off to buy another set(very pricey to replace) and the availability of them is becoming scarcer all the time. Here's the link. go about half way down the page.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=425650&page=60

CRTs RARELY go out. That's what always occurs to people when their sets go down - "Oh God, is it the picture tube???"

99.99% of the time it's not. There are literally dozens to hundreds of circuits in there before the actual tubes, and ALL of them have to be working correctly to even get your signal TO the tube. CRTs are very resilient, and rarely have any problems at all.

If you ever DO need a CRT, go to Video Display Corp. They have untold numbers of them, of all types, and can resurface them as well, when they finally wear out, or finally go too dark to use.

Well cared for CRT RPTVs have an easy 10 year lifespan, looking better than new at all times when calibrated and regularly cleaned. It takes being pushed really hard by industrial - or babysitter - use at high contrast levels and potential screenburn, to make them stray from that norm to any great degree.

I have repaired and then calibrated 18 year old Mit's that the owners swear look as good as new afterwards.

Mr Bob

Tbone2K

01-06-08, 08:31 PM

Has anyone had any problems with HDMI not working with some devices?...I got a Samsung HD870 upconverting DVD. I connected it via HDMI, but the option to use HDMI on the player is disabled.

Follow up: It was a bad HDMI cable. After discovering a friend's player didn't work either, I tried another cable and it works now.

jvancer

01-10-08, 04:59 PM

Anyone else have issues with flickering video on all inputs? It does go away sometimes usually when I am watching an HD channel. The HD picture will pop in and look perfect again but it doesn't last. Help! Any ideas on what the cause is and what it will cost me?

Thanks

Circle909

01-12-08, 08:58 PM

Hey all,

I originally posted this in another forum, but I think it may be problem with the 65h84. Here is the dilemma:

Hey all,

Sorry but I made it through about 40 pages before jumping to the end. I am having a problem using my 94.

Connect DirectTV H20 using HDMI to Pioneer VSX-94TXH
Connect Pioneer VSX-94TXH to 65H84 Display using HDMI

My problem is that I can get audio no problem, but no video. I can get video if I set the audio parameter on the VSX-94TXH for HDMI to THROUGH (i.e. just pass the hdmi through the receiver), but then I get no audio on the receiver. Anyone know why this is happening?

P.S. If I connect the H20 to the tv by HDMI it is fine as well, so I am pretty sure it's not the cable.

I really appreciate any help.

coolflea216

01-17-08, 11:38 AM

I own a 46H84 , about 3 years old, and I read up on this thread occasionally. I decided to call a few local TV service and repair businesses out of the yellow pages who specialized in big screens, to get an idea what a optic cleaning and callibration would cost me. Both places acted like I was crazy, saying the only reason it would need to be cleaned is if there was a heavy smoker in the house. As for the callibration, they both said they could take it back to the factory settings, that's all. Am I calling the wrong people?

Mr Bob

01-17-08, 12:41 PM

Oh, yeah.

Don't expect any repair techs to know the first thing about cleaning and calibration of CRT tech. The ones I know who do both I can count on one hand, myself being the first. Soon there will be very few repair techs who even know anything about CRT repair tech, with all the new fixed pixel stuff coming out, eclipsing the splendor of CRT's images.

You need a calibrator who is up on CRT tech, and they are getting fewer and farther between also.

You can fly one in - I fly out of OAK, BTW - or I can get you a phone consultation with me, and equip you with what it takes to do it yourself.

Mr Bob

lcaillo

01-17-08, 11:13 PM

Mr Bob

01-18-08, 07:05 AM

I keep being shocked at how little repair techs know about the matter of calibration, and how little calibration people know about the importance of cleaning and how to actually do some service level adjustments. I think you and I probably make up most of that handful. It seems to me that repair techs would be a likely group of tweakers, but they just seem to want to swap parts these days. When I grew up, techs were born experimenters and tinkerers, always trying to extract that last bit of performance out of everything. These days they seem to be more like plumbers.

You got that right.

And with all this new fixed pixel stuff having multi-layer boards - the Mit DLPs have 8 layer boards! - and lead free soldering, swapping out everything is the wave of the future.

And we don't even want to think about what that's going to cost the consumer, when there is no readily repairable CRT tech around anymore.

The guy I work with who owns R&B Electronics in Redwood City CA has really opened my eyes to those kinds of new expenses for the consumer, and it does not bode well for them. Nor for us repairers, when everthing has become throwaway, at horrendous consumer expense.

Mr Bob

bobo529

01-18-08, 10:05 AM

Mr Bob

01-18-08, 02:05 PM

Know any calibrator/optic cleaner people in the tri-state area here in NY?

Gregg Loewen of Lion AV is a great calibrator, DK if he does optics cleanings or not, let me know if you find out.

Many sets require the deeper optics cleaning; when you do your checking, make sure they do that as well -

Mr Bob

joker305th

01-19-08, 07:00 PM

I have a PS3 connect via HDMI to my 65h84.

I've calibrated with the Avia DVD, but movies and games still have a lot of black crush. For example, in the "Water Hazard" level in HL2, I can't make out the speedometer on the boat, or see the ramps on the sides of the canal. It's difficult to make out any detail of anyone wearing a dark suit in a DVD or BluRay movie.

In the PS3 settings:
Cross Color Reduction Filter = Off
RGB Full Range = Limited
Super White = Off

65h84 settings are:
Contrast = 76
Brightness = 65
Color = 40
Tint = R10
Sharpness = 0
Color Temp = Medium
DNR = Off
Display Format = 1080i
Cinema Mode = Film

Any advice?

Trendy8

01-19-08, 07:27 PM

Gregg Loewen

01-20-08, 02:04 PM

hi guys

Of course I do optic cleaning, as do ALL OF THE LIONAV guys, including removal of the lense and cleaning of the CRT face (which isnt really the crt face but you get the idea).

Mr Bob

01-21-08, 10:54 AM

So frustrated.....
My Toshiba 57HX83 is back to displaying in 'NATURAL' stretch mode instead of 'FULL' mode for HD material. I just got the Onkyo TX-SR605 AV receiver and I'm running through that now. From my DirecTV HD-DVR (HR20-700) I have an HDMI cable running to the Onkyo, then a DVI cable with an HDMI>DVI adapter from the Onkyo to the Toshiba display. Previously was hooked up just with the DVI cable with adapter straight from the HD-DVR to the Toshiba and my HD material was in 'FULL' stretch mode. When that same HD-DVR was hooked up via component straight to the set it would go to 'NATURAL' as well.
I really can't figure this out and it's driving me crazy. I can't live with channel bugs or bottom-of-the-screen text being cut off anymore. There has to be a way to fix this and change it so that it's in 'FULL' stretch mode all the time regardless of input. The problem is on any HD material coming in at 720p or 1080i. If I tune to an SD channel in 480p then I can switch stretch modes to my hearts content.

Is there some reason you are prioritizing HDMI over component on an analog CRT based set? Is the picture better? (would be a surprise to me) or do you want the upconversion from 480i->1080i feature, using HD disc? (the only real reason left, to have HDMI involved on an analog set, with all the potential bugs to the D/A-A/D conversions you're inextricably bound to, with having HDMI involved at all. Hitachi still hasn't got HDMI completely right - )

And it works correctly if you run it straight to the set, without going thru the AV receiver??? Have you doublechecked that?

New one on me -

:confused:

If you don't have any need for HDMI other than the 480i->1080i upconversion from SD DVDs, as a last ditch effort I would recommend running everything but that - all cable/sat/OTA HD - via component, and running a separate HDMI line dedicated to that single purpose, for playing SD DVDs via your HD DVD or BD player.

The 480i-1080i upconversion that way IS notably head and shoulders better than any other upconversion out there.

I have also heard that the HDMI version of OP from HD STBs is better also, than component - which they are all still equipped with and which works just fine. But reports are that HDMI is better, if those boxes are so equipped, and provided your set can take in HDMI/DVI. I figure that's because the R&D for upconverting via HDMI just kept getting better the last few years, while component upconversion - not being prioritized anymore on new sets - pretty much stayed the same.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

01-21-08, 11:11 AM

hi guys

Of course I do optic cleaning, as do ALL OF THE LIONAV guys, including removal of the lense and cleaning of the CRT face (which isnt really the crt face but you get the idea).

Yeah, it's the CRT coolant covers. And the backs of each lens. With the deeper optics cleaning op, 6 additional surfaces get cleaned. That can be half the battle in getting a crystal clear light path again, and if you have a chance to do that and it needs it, it REALLY needs it.

Gregg is now instructing the THX trainings, if anyone wants to get qualifed for doing the nth degree possible, of installation work.

Great seeing you at CES, Gregg!

:cool:

Mr Bob

WaltA

01-21-08, 11:24 AM

So frustrated.....
The problem is on any HD material coming in at 720p or 1080i. If I tune to an SD channel in 480p then I can switch stretch modes to my hearts content.

I assume that your set works just like my 46HX83. The various screen modes are [u]only[/b] available with an 480i/p input. For 720p or 1080i, you can't change screen modes, period. If one tries to push the screen mode button, it displays "Not Available".

This is unlike my new LCD Toshiba set, which does allow you to change screen modes with any source. So, if you have a HD channel showing an 4:3 image with black bars on each side, you can still stretch it and the black bars get simply pushed off the screen.

WaltA

01-21-08, 11:28 AM

Is the picture better? (would be a surprise to me) or do you want the upconversion from 480i->1080i feature, using HD disc?

For me, I want the upconversion from 480p->1080i feature, using SD discs. Using component inputs, most SD DVD's block any upconversion, forcing one to use HDMI instead (and for our sets a HDMI to DVI adapter).

Trendy8

01-21-08, 03:48 PM

I assume that your set works just like my 46HX83. The various screen modes are [u]only[/b] available with an 480i/p input. For 720p or 1080i, you can't change screen modes, period. If one tries to push the screen mode button, it displays "Not Available".

This is unlike my new LCD Toshiba set, which does allow you to change screen modes with any source. So, if you have a HD channel showing an 4:3 image with black bars on each side, you can still stretch it and the black bars get simply pushed off the screen.

Yes, that's right. Can't switch stretch modes on 720p or 1080i material. I don't know, I had it in 'FULL' mode through the DVI input for a couple of months and was very pleased - I just wish I knew why/how it got there and how I can get it back that way. @Mr. Bob - No I haven't rechecked it via bypassing the receiver again, I will tomorrow as I'm getting a straight HDMI->DVI cable to replace my DVI>HDMI adapter which is bent. I have a hunch it will be in 'NATURAL' if I do, your thinking is correct I'm sure. It just seems to me that there must be a setting somewhere in the regular or designer menus that trips the stretch mode and tells the set to go from 'FULL' to 'NATURAL'. I don't have any problems though with PQ issues using HDMI over component, if anything it looks a little better to me with HDMI. I like the picture of the DirecTV box better on HDMI over component and, yes, it's the only way to upconvert SD DVD's with the A2. I don't have my XBox 360 back from repairs but it sounds like it's going to take that component signal and downconvert it to 720p over HDMI so I won't be going that route - I'll just run the 360's component cables straight to the set as before.
Good to know your Toshiba LCD doesn't do this. I saw a 47" Toshiba Regza on display at Tiger Direct that I absolutely fell in love with but I'm reluctant to buy a Toshiba display again. I really would like to go with a more modern set like an LCD or plasma soon and get rid of this big monster, hopefully soon.

WaltA

01-21-08, 05:19 PM

Yes, that's right. Can't switch stretch modes on 720p or 1080i material. I don't know, I had it in 'FULL' mode through the DVI input for a couple of months and was very pleased - I just wish I knew why/how it got there and how I can get it back that way.

I would bet that your DVI input was running at only 480i/p, and that is why you had the screen modes available to you.

HDMI/DVI have a handshaking exchange which, amongst other things, has the TV and the device agree upon the max resolution that will be used. For what ever reason, it seems that they agreed to 480i/p.

Then, you did something recently that cause the HDMI/DVI handshaking to happen again, and this time, they agreed on 720p or 1080i.

"Bad" handshaking can easily happen if one "hot plugs" a HDMI/DVI cable into a device that is already powered up. For example, if your TV negotiated 480i/p with some device, and then you "hot plugged" a difference device, a new handshaking will not occur.

skidmark

01-21-08, 08:03 PM

Does anyone have information on why Toshiba has listed the 23148055X as a replacement for the original 23148055 HDMI module?

Are there issues with the original that would cause HDCP issues? I've had trouble with the Toshiba A3 HD-DVD player connecting via HDMI, but not with an Accurian ATSC tuner.

TIA

coolflea216

01-22-08, 03:51 PM

To those with the H84 and a Blu Ray player, do you see a huge difference in picture? I have a PS3 connected via HDMI and I can hardly tell the difference between a Blu Ray disc and an upconverted standard DVD, they both look great. Would I see a bigger improvement if I had a 1080p TV?

eugovector

01-22-08, 04:09 PM

Depends on how close you sit:

http://realht.info/EpisodePages/EP014.html

By and large, most people find that upconverted SD-DVD looks as god to their eyes as most HD titles out right now. That's one of the reasons the Next Gen video has been slow to take off.

WaltA

01-22-08, 05:35 PM

By and large, most people find that upconverted SD-DVD looks as god to their eyes as most HD titles out right now. That's one of the reasons the Next Gen video has been slow to take off.

I fall into that group. :D

I bought an HD DVD player, as a Christmas gift to myself. The reason I went with HD DVD over Blu-ray, was because that's the system sold by Toshiba. In other words, it was more a Toshiba choice to me, than an HD DVD vs. Blu-ray.

However, if I had it to do over again, I would have just bought a good upconverting DVD player, and kept with buying SD DVD movies.

pittdog1

01-23-08, 07:09 PM

Mr Bob

01-24-08, 12:21 PM

A page or so back i posted thoughts about HDMI/DVI vs. Component hook-ups on CRT RPTV's. Here's the link.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12549717&postcount=2105

I would suggest to all of you to try both ways with whatever source you are hooking up to see if there is a difference. Mr Bob, have you tried it with your Sat box both ways?
Big difference on my set with every HD box and or DVR i've had. Read the post i linked to above. And ,i see a pretty significant improvement from Blu-ray over upconverted dvd on my set, but i sit fairly close to the set.

I want to do that, have not yet. Life's just been too busy. I actually hope my HDMI has no problems, as my factory warranty is now expired. As a tech, I don't usually do extendeds on my own stuff, and the only extended offered did not cover the CRTs, nor their setup if needing to be replaced. Why bother???

But I am fascinated about your findings. I know they have done a lot more R&D with HDMI than with component, which they are viewing as a dying art.

And I know I will have to check out HDMI's performance on my Tosh A2 sooner or later, for SD upconversion purposes -

At that time I will also run it to the VIP 622 sat STB and see what happens -

Mr Bob

joker305th

01-24-08, 05:02 PM

To those with the H84 and a Blu Ray player, do you see a huge difference in picture?

Depends on the movie.

Spiderman 3, which came with my 40GB PS3, was kinda "meh". So was Pirates of the Caribbean 2.

However, Ratatouille on BluRay had that "WOW" factor I was hoping for.

cissado

01-24-08, 06:42 PM

Mr Bob

01-25-08, 10:52 AM

I have the 65h84, using it with 1080i with component connections. I also have a pioneer Elite Avi59... something (lol) DVD player connected via hdmi cable. Everything was professionally calibrated years ago, ehh, I'm not putting any more money into this set now... Anyway, I'm getting Verizon fios TV installed and was thinking of changing the TV viewing to HDMI, but have been seeing a lot of issues with the 1080i selection and the Verizon software problems, among other things.

My question is, should I just stick with the component connection to the TV and hdmi to the DVD player? I rarely use the DVD btw for any series vieing. I mostly use PPV movies and HD channels. So my prefernece would be towards the better TV PQ.

Any thoughts on this?

Gotta try it out - let us know when you do.

What if a redo cleaning and calibration on your current CRT set netted you as good as or better picture than lots of that new stuff out there, all of it in 1080p and much of it with poor 1080i-p upconversion and shaky HDMI, and all of it with limitations that CRT doesn't have? Redos can be lots less expensive than starting gate calibrations. Would you then think about spending hundreds, to save thousands?

I calibrate my third Pioneer Elite CRT RPTV on my Texas tour today, this one in Plano. I believe all 3 of these will turn out to be 510HDs, the smallest one Pioneer made back then, at 53". The first 2 have been.

2 of the 3 sets here I am calibrating have also required repairs first, at $350 a pop just for the repair, and nobody's complaining about the money they are spending, getting me out here from the West Coast and having me spend all day on each of their 6-7 year old sets, cleaning and calibrating them. The end result picture is that good. I am currently in Dallas, to be going home soon unless somebody closeby captures me for another day or 2 -

You can always get an outboard HDMI switcher, to expand your inputs. Monoprice has lots of that kind of thing at very reasonable prices -

Mr Bob

cissado

01-25-08, 11:12 AM

Thanks Mr.Bob. I did not mean to say the calibration, or next calibration wasn't worth it. I do think that the first calibration one has is the best investment. I have done that and can see the difference. The subsequent calibrations will definately help, but it will probably not be as drastic as the "out of the box-first calibration" was. After several years, it won't hurt to get another one though.

I guess my question was more geared towards fios users. I'm not sure if there are many reading this partcular thread. I've read that there are issues with hdmi and the current Verizon technology, and I wanted to know which to use, hdmi or component to avoid the problems.

When the installer comes, I wanted to be ready to tell him how I will be connected from the start, so he can tweak the install with my (hopefully) permanent connections.

thanks again. Good to see this thread is still active.

Mr Bob

01-25-08, 12:15 PM

Mr Bob

01-26-08, 02:47 PM

Thanks Mr.Bob. I did not mean to say the calibration, or next calibration wasn't worth it. I do think that the first calibration one has is the best investment. I have done that and can see the difference. The subsequent calibrations will definately help, but it will probably not be as drastic as the "out of the box-first calibration" was. After several years, it won't hurt to get another one though.

That's like saying the initial tune-up of a Lamborghini is the best investment, and all others downline from that are not as important.

You have a CRT based HD set, which is capable of Lamborghini performance. Grayscale drifts off as the differing colors age, point sys drifts off because of the huge amount of variability of each point available to your sys. Optics clarity gets trashed because of the 30KV inherent in CRT use, and Tosh's usually need the deeper optics cleaned as well as the regular optics. See my website for more details. No CRT set can look its best without a crystal clear light path.

A stem to stern cleaning and trimup every few years is definitely in order -

Mr Bob

dragonman0325

01-26-08, 03:14 PM

Anyone using this connection should be aware of the massive amount of black crush you will experience. I have yet to find anyone with an H83 using this connection that has not noticed the black crush issue. I got black crush with every player or sat Hd box I conencted via HMI-DVI.

KevinLipton

02-05-08, 11:11 PM

Hey guys, I just bought a used 65NH84 and I can't seem to get anything to come up with the HDMI port. is there a way to test the port and see if it is working properly?
Thanks
Kevin

WaltA

02-06-08, 08:28 AM

Try this...

Set your TV to the HDMI input.
Turn 'off' your TV.
Turn 'off' your device.
Wait for a few seconds.
Turn 'on' your device.
Turn 'on' your TV.

This should cause your TV and the device to do a new initialization handshake. My guess is that your TV thinks the same device the previous owner used, is still connected up.

KevinLipton

02-06-08, 02:53 PM

Thanks, I tried this but it didn't work. The PS3 works finve via HDMI on my parents 50" Zenith, but i don't get anything on my Tosh. Is there any other way to test it to see if the port works?

Also in the menu screen I'm only getting Mono on all my inputs except on the ANT, where it will let me choose Stereo, SAP, or Mono. Is this normal?

thanks
Kevin

pittdog1

02-08-08, 08:36 AM

You'll need to make sure the PS3 is outputting the correct resolution 1st. if it's outputting 1080p, your set won't display it. Set it at 1080i and it should work. Try hooking up via component to set the output to 1080i as component won't pass 1080p to get you started. Then hook back up with HDMI @ 1080i. As far as your audio problem, it depends on how you have things hooked up and the sources that you are running. Many source components have menus for audio as well as the set, make sure they are set to output stereo as well as your TV set.
Also, i could be wrong on this, but i thought you should turn on the set 1st and then the HDMI device 2nd for the handshake to occur between the devices. And shut them down in the reverse order. I could be wrong though so try it both ways, but if the PS3 was outputting 1080p when it was hooked up to your parents Zenith then it won't work either way until you change it to 1080i. GL

KevinLipton

02-10-08, 08:50 PM

Thanks guys, I finally got it working. It felt as if the HDMI cable wasn't fully inserting so i took the back cover off of the TV, and guess what, my HDMI port/box wasn't even hooked up. So i connected the cables/wires to the box and sure enough, as soon as i hooked up my PS3 it picked right up.

As for the audio, where it says MTS, it is locked and set on Mono, on all the inputs except the ANT. Is that normal?

cassou

02-12-08, 02:15 PM

Hi everyone,

I just wanted your input with issues I find in some movies with the red color.

The best example I can find is Attack of Clones...I think its the 3rd chapter. The scene inside Senator Palpatine's office. The red wall in that scene look really bad on my setup. The red color gets really pixelated and ugly in that scene.

I was wondering if other people have the same issues.

It does the same thing on 3 differents DVD players. The last one I tried is the Toshiba HD-A3. My TV is 65H85.

thank you in advance

cissado

02-15-08, 08:55 PM

Wondered where to ask this question, here or the Verizon fios thread. Since I have an older TV, I'll try here.

Does anyone have Verizon fios and a TV like my 65H84? I'd like to know how you're setting the stb with the TV. "480 override" off? Mine seems to look better without it "off". Anyone else see this? My TV is set to 1080i with component cables.

It seems the "480 override to off" is a popular setting. If I understand correctly, this would tell me the TV is not doing as good a job as the stb, correct?

Brewhound

03-13-08, 03:48 PM

Eben

03-13-08, 04:57 PM

So frustrated.....
My Toshiba 57HX83 is back to displaying in 'NATURAL' stretch mode instead of 'FULL' mode for HD material. I just got the Onkyo TX-SR605 AV receiver and I'm running through that now. From my DirecTV HD-DVR (HR20-700) I have an HDMI cable running to the Onkyo, then a DVI cable with an HDMI>DVI adapter from the Onkyo to the Toshiba display. Previously was hooked up just with the DVI cable with adapter straight from the HD-DVR to the Toshiba and my HD material was in 'FULL' stretch mode. When that same HD-DVR was hooked up via component straight to the set it would go to 'NATURAL' as well.
I really can't figure this out and it's driving me crazy. I can't live with channel bugs or bottom-of-the-screen text being cut off anymore. There has to be a way to fix this and change it so that it's in 'FULL' stretch mode all the time regardless of input. The problem is on any HD material coming in at 720p or 1080i. If I tune to an SD channel in 480p then I can switch stretch modes to my hearts content.

Here's my experience using this set with an LG OTA tuner and Directv HR10-250 (note I've never used the TV's auto aspect, but that works only with 480i sources): If the receiver is set to "native," thus outputting the signal at original (480i/p, 720p, 1080i), the set will react differently: 480 you can scroll through all zoom/stretch modes (natural; theater wide 1, 2, and 3; and full), 720 locks them all out, and 1080 allows all but full. Thus, if you're watching a channel that outputs at 720, but is showing 4:3 or letterbox material, you will see bars; if the channel is 1080 but showing 4:3 or letterbox, you will see bars at natural, but can use all but the full mode to lessen/remove them. Some receivers (the signal output device, not the TV) have zoom/stretch modes: the DirecTV receiver has a full stretch, so when watching an HD channel showing 4:3 material, I can use that function on the receiver (but not on the TV). I believe the HR20 has similar functions (you may want to ask this question at the HR20 forum at http://www.dbstalk.com/). For me, I don't see much difference in picture quality between having the TV scale or the HR10, so I set the receiver's output to 1080. If I tune to a channel for which I want to use full stretch, I use the HR10's function; I use the TV's zooms for other situations. If the source material is widescreen HD (720/1080), it fills the screen without any intervention (looks good, too).

kbgl

03-19-08, 01:05 PM

lcaillo

03-19-08, 01:20 PM

Read this thread carefully:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/manufacturers-service-support/5600-crt-based-rptv-convergence-repairs.html#post43725

Mr Bob

03-19-08, 09:53 PM

Question for Mr Bob

Something in my 46H84 set has gone bad. Something related to the convergence I think. The red, green and blue are now way off from each other. Mostly the green I think. When I do an auto convergence, the red and blue lines are straight and true. The green horizontal lines are bowed toward the center about an inch. I bought a projector about a year ago, and have only had the set on a couple of times since. The other day I was watching the 46H84 and the picture was fine. A few minutes later the picture went bad. Can you speculate on what broke, and how expensive a repair might be?

If the conv is kicking in and then out again and then in again, chances are you have cold solder joints at the legs of your ICs, where they solder to the board. In which case if you catch it early, resoldering them will save your ICs and you won't need new ones.

If you keep using your set while bad, those ICs are then forced out of their design parameters for extended periods, and will eventually get too stressed out and croak.

So don't watch your set anymore until the cold solder possibilities have been checked out and thoroughly remedied. If the conv has completely already gone to the dark side, do what Leonard says, above - read that thread thoroughly.

It is very well written, BTW. My compliments to the chef!

:cool:

Mr Bob

Ted_K

03-21-08, 11:00 AM

Mr Bob

03-21-08, 01:23 PM

Eben

03-21-08, 02:03 PM

I've been reading this thread for years now, since I bought my 46H84, and there is still one question in my mind. I have a Toshiba HD-A2, a PS-3 and a new Oppo 983H connected to my display via HDMI. I have all 3 DVD players set to output 1080i, and the 46H84 set to "Film" and 1080i. I would like my DVD players to handle deinterlacing, scaling, etc. instead of the set. Is this the correct setup? I've read and re-read this thread many times and this has never been clear to me. Thanks for your help!

If the DVDs are outputting 1080i, they're doing the scaling, etc. The TV should accept that signal and display it. Also, my 57h84 has a setting for 540p, so I assume that when you say "set to 'Film' and 1080i" you're choosing between 540p and 1080i.
FYI, according to a discussion I had in the Oppo 971 forum, setting the DVD output to 540p and my TV's display to 540p skips a reinterlacing step and thus eliminates another manipulation of the image (a good less-is-more thing):

Originally Posted by Neuromancer:
It can be advantageous to use 540p because the DVD player has done all the de-interlacing, and has not introduced a re-interlacing step. Depending on the quality of the de-interlacing and scaling parameters of your television, 540p can look better than 1080i.

At 1080i the DVD player will do the following:
480i->progressive->scale->re-interlace->1080i.
The re-interlacing can cause visual errors, depending on how accurate it was done in the first place. The signal is also interlaced, inviting combing and aliasing errors.

At 540p the DVD player will do the following:
480i->progressive->scale->540p
There is no re-interlacing step, and the signal is now progressive. Depending on the re-interlacing aspects of your display, this may or may not decrease jagged edges or interlacing errors.

Mr Bob

03-21-08, 02:21 PM

so I assume that when you say "set to 'Film' and 1080i" you're choosing between 540p and 1080i.

Right, forgot about that -

FYI, according to a discussion I had in the Oppo 971 forum, setting the DVD output to 540p and my TV's display to 540p skips a reinterlacing step and thus eliminates another manipulation of the image (a good less-is-more thing):

Good observation.

Prolly bypasses the set's automatic upconversion from 480i/p to 540p too, as always present - and inescapable - in later model Tosh's and Hit's.

Mr Bob

Ted_K

03-21-08, 04:43 PM

Thanks, Mr. Bob and Eben.
I guess my setup is OK, but I'll try the 540p setting just for comparison's sake. Since Greg Loewen calibrated my set last summer, I'm sure he would have advised me if I was doing anything wrong, but I thought I'd ask.

Mr Bob

03-21-08, 06:16 PM

gordito

03-21-08, 10:06 PM

Who can imagine my luck... extended warranty ended Jan 31/08.... TV turn off today.... light on the front (power on) flashing... ANY HELP!!!! Can somebody provide me with the repair manual??? Any suggestions...

thanks

coolflea216

03-25-08, 01:34 PM

If I have a 720p signal going into the H84, what am I seeing? Is the TV upscaling it to 1080i or downscaling it to 540p or 480p? The picture looks great and it's definitely hi-def.

Eben

03-25-08, 04:22 PM

If I have a 720p signal going into the H84, what am I seeing? Is the TV upscaling it to 1080i or downscaling it to 540p or 480p? The picture looks great and it's definitely hi-def.

If you have 540p selected, it will downscale; if you have 1080i selected, it will upscale.

jnovakone

03-28-08, 11:48 AM

jnovakone

03-28-08, 11:49 AM

I meant manual focus!

jnovakone

03-28-08, 11:50 AM

Whoops again, mechanical focus. Sorry!

Mr Bob

03-28-08, 12:10 PM

I have a question which I am sure someone can easily answer. I have a 50HX81 Toshiba and I have been following this thread and have found the information very helpful. I have cleaned my optics and mirror, perfomed the 56-point convergence and electrical focus. After 6 years, the picture is still fabulous! I would like to perform the optical focus and, this may be stupid, was wondering if I could simply display the grids onto the mirror and adjust from there. Having to continually remove and replace the screen while I move the guns does not seem ideal.

Thank you.

The grid will be totally out of focus at that part of the light path. It is only in focus at each end of the light path, never anywhere in between.

The only way to do the Cantilever Technique absolutely requires moving of the viewscreen, a bit in and a bit out, you have to at least loosen it up. But it can still hang there, totally supported, if it pivots at the top. Only CHANGING the focus requires removal and rehanging of it.

You can do the optical/mech focus other ways, but you'll never get it any tighter than with the CT. And the CT is the ONLY method that allows you to check the efficacy of your focus without CHANGING your focus.

Mr Bob

jnovakone

03-28-08, 12:17 PM

Thank you! I appreciate the quick response.

zoomer57

03-31-08, 09:47 PM

I have a 42H83 and I noticed a problem the last couple of days. I have a Dish network receiver hooked up to the DVI input and when I first turn on the TV there a wavy lines running through the picture. They look like some electrical interference, after the TV has warmed up after a few minutes they go away. I have a DVD player hooked up to the component input and the picture was unwatchable. The picture was breaking up and smearing all over. After the TV warmed up I could watch the DVD but I still saw some of the wavy lines. Any ideas? Thank You

slimmswitch

04-19-08, 10:20 AM

does anyone have the service manual for 51H84C?

chaotic646

04-23-08, 08:38 PM

I have owned the H84 for several years now and its still going strong. I recently decided to build an HTPC. If anyone can give me any tips, recommendations for settings, advice, or experiences they've had with this set and an HTPC I would really appreciate it. Im trying to go in with as few surprises as possible. TIA.

eugovector

04-24-08, 07:33 AM

Video of my build here, the hardware side of things at least: http://realht.info/video/

chaotic646

04-24-08, 11:08 AM

Video of my build here, the hardware side of things at least: http://realht.info/video/
Thanks, but I already have my HTPC built. Im looking for advice on settings for resolution, settings for my tv, etc. that will keep the text from being blurry and the picture looking good.

eugovector

04-24-08, 11:35 AM

On the Tosh 51H83, I used 1080i output from the 860GT via DVI/HDMI

Mr Bob

04-24-08, 01:55 PM

Sorry, I just have to crow a little...

I just learned that I have been mentioned on the Curt Palme site, a site dedicated to the best CRT reproduction possible, primarily dealing with the immensely capable and expensive triple gun CRT front projectors, the kind they used to buy $20,000 Faroudja scalers for. It is dedicated to the best big screen picture possible, and ceiling pj people are incredibly dedicated to that site. It's a reference site, it's where the REALLY committed videophiles go to get their systems looking their best.

This was in regards to equipment they sponsor there that successfully transcodes HDMI video to component, in all its splendor, with its resulting images NOT limited or neutralized by HDCP. And arriving at the display fully ceiling projector grade.

So if you have a component-only CRT RPTV and have been considering buying new just to get HDMI, your worries are over. Keep your set, spend a few hundred equipping it with ceiling pj grade transcoding equipment, and continue to enjoy the incredible images your CRT set is capable of, head and shoulders better than a lot of the new tech out there, and standing shoulder to shoulder with the best of it.

I am mentioned there in a testimonial by James A, whose Mit 55905 I just calibrated last week, around a year 2001 HDready model. He swears by it, says his set now "outperforms some of the newest stuff out there"...

Check the Curt Palme site -

www.curtpalme.com

and this in particular, it's in the testimonials down below -

http://www.curtpalme.com/Box1020.shtm

Mr Bob

chaotic646

04-24-08, 04:22 PM

On the Tosh 51H83, I used 1080i output from the 860GT via DVI/HDMI

Is the 1080i output option somewhere in the nvidia control panel?

eugovector

04-24-08, 04:43 PM

Once I connected my TV and the display was recognized as a TV, in the advanced options, I could select 720p and 1080i, per my memory.

chaotic646

04-24-08, 06:10 PM

Once I connected my TV and the display was recognized as a TV, in the advanced options, I could select 720p and 1080i, per my memory.

Thanks, I'll check it out. :)

siviog1

04-25-08, 11:48 PM

Ive had the 46H83 for now 4+ years. For some reason when I press the button on the TV i get a red light and no picture or sound. The remote does not work any more with the tv actually no universal remote works I believe the IR may be dead or something.. Does anyone know what I can do to fix this.. I'm in CHicago.

WaltA

04-26-08, 06:26 PM

For some reason when I press the button on the TV i get a red light and no picture or sound.

So, the TV itself is "dead"? No on-screen graphics? None of the inputs work?

The remote does not work any more with the tv actually no universal remote works I believe the IR may be dead or something...

If pressing the button on the TV itself doesn't work, it doesn't surprise me that the remote doesn't either.

siviog1

04-27-08, 04:27 PM

So, the TV itself is "dead"? No on-screen graphics? None of the inputs work?
Not sure if dead or not... But the power button clicks and you can hear a click in the TV like its turning on but no picture or sound.. the power button on TV lights up red.. Any ideas would be helpful..

If pressing the button on the TV itself doesn't work, it doesn't surprise me that the remote doesn't either.
The remote stop working with the TV about 1 year ago prior to the TV going out 3 days ago. I added new batteries in remote and everything lit up. But for some reason I don't believe the TV infra red is picking up any remote signal because my DISH Network remote didn't want to work with the TV either.

WaltA

04-27-08, 05:24 PM

Not sure if dead or not... But the power button clicks and you can hear a click in the TV like its turning on but no picture or sound.. the power button on TV lights up red.. Any ideas would be helpful.

If you press the "menu" button on the TV itself, nothing on the screen?

No sound at all from any input (try to switch them blindly if need be)? The reason sound is important, is that it would help to isolate the problem to video only, or something common with both video and audio.

siviog1

04-28-08, 12:26 AM

If you press the "menu" button on the TV itself, nothing on the screen?
Pressed menu several times blindly no picture on screen at all...

No sound at all from any input (try to switch them blindly if need be)? The reason sound is important, is that it would help to isolate the problem to video only, or something common with both video and audio. No sound from any outputs... Pressed tv/video button and noting... I increased the volume to hear speakers but it was a faint hiss like the speakers we working but no input of audio...

skidmark

04-28-08, 05:36 PM

... I just learned that I have been mentioned on the Curt Palme site, a site dedicated to the best CRT reproduction possible, primarily dealing with the immensely capable and expensive triple gun CRT front projectors, the kind they used to buy $20,000 Faroudja scalers for. ...

Hey, congrats Bob! When my numbers come up I'll start my shopping on that site ...

Mr Bob

04-29-08, 09:48 AM

A colleague of mine is giving me a raft of **** over at the SPot, saying that screenshots are BS and that I should be able to take them lickety split, with little or no planning, experimentation, nor time. As if taking screenshots were a very simple thing, and that the time and care I have taken in getting ones I consider good enough to be worthy of posting, mean nothing.

He also says that CRT RPTV is not a worthwhile medium anymore, and that I am in severe denial about several things, among them trying to save it and make it last as long as I - as we all - can. I have mentioned these threads where screenshots are highly respected over here, and others where CRT RPTV tech is also highly respected. He says the only CRT medium worth having is front projection, which at least is some form of agreement between us anyway, I guess, tho I disagree that it is the only CRT medium worth caring about.

When I mentioned the huge numbers of views of such threads over here, he says that I am quoting numbers of views that make them impossible to read.

I would like some help in answering him. Here's the thread -

http://www.hometheaterspot.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/141139/

It gets most heated on the second page -

Mr Bob
__________________

odyssyus

04-30-08, 12:10 AM

Just purchased a 46h84 from a military guy going overseas. He said it had a 'dark' problem in movies/tv. After hooking it up, it does appear to be overly dark. Shadows are way too dark, and movies are hard to see. I noticed the contrast is at 100% and i dont have a ALC option. I'm using S Video.

Any suggestions ?

Mr Bob

04-30-08, 12:35 AM

odyssyus

04-30-08, 01:01 AM

Anymore brightness (50% now) and black turns to gray.

Mr Bob

05-09-08, 10:18 AM

Anymore brightness (50% now) and black turns to gray.

If he has been running his contrast at 100% all along, and it's how many years old? - then his phosphors may be overly aged by now. Esp. if the set has been run MANY hours a day, day after day.

As such, they will only be able to deliver their best - but darkened - picture now. If you get into the sm, you may be able to goose the subcontrast up a bit, but if so, that may start tearing apart the convergence, blooming up the focusing, making the grayscale go nonlinear on peaks, etc.

If you want to know for sure if it has been overworked, remove the screen and take a flashlight in there and shine it onto the CRTs, thru the lenses, while the unit is off.

If you see a strong brown "footprint" of where the image has been on his guns, there's your answer. Usually the red is not affected by normal aging. If the red has a really strong brownish cast in that footprint, and the same with the green and blue, your CRTs are toast and need to be replaced or resurfaced.

Video Display Corp.

And I'd be glad to do it for you, but on a 47" that usually totals out a CRT RPTV. A 65" would be worth saving, but very few people want to put that kind of $ into a 47".

Mr Bob

curtisb

05-12-08, 08:13 PM

ydgmms

05-13-08, 12:42 AM

can someone link me to a guide on removal of the protective screen?
tia

ydgmms

05-13-08, 12:43 AM

Have a 42H83 that seems is dying and I search didn't reveal any similiar situations but I thought I'd try anyway to see if anyone expereinced this and has an idea of repair costs.

Problems manafest themselves in multiple ways and with all inputs (so it isn't a single connection issue). All issues happen for a few seconds before returning to normal for a random amount of minutes (or seconds) before happenign again. One things is that the image will go 'red' as if on blue or green color gun went off. Another is that the entire screen will go black. A third is that the image will become 'digitzed' before going smooth again. The audio (except the base) appears to have gone out as well.
Cleaned out the system to ensure there was no dust buildup causing heat problems.

Any thoughts would be appreciated as a low end 42" CRT isn't going to survive a cost justification of a hefty repair bill.
sounds like some cold solder joints, making bad/intermittent connections.

Can't say for sure. Nor cost

Mr Bob

05-13-08, 11:10 AM

Have a 42H83 that seems is dying and I search didn't reveal any similiar situations but I thought I'd try anyway to see if anyone expereinced this and has an idea of repair costs.

Problems manafest themselves in multiple ways and with all inputs (so it isn't a single connection issue). All issues happen for a few seconds before returning to normal for a random amount of minutes (or seconds) before happenign again. One things is that the image will go 'red' as if on blue or green color gun went off. Another is that the entire screen will go black. A third is that the image will become 'digitzed' before going smooth again. The audio (except the base) appears to have gone out as well.
Cleaned out the system to ensure there was no dust buildup causing heat problems.

Any thoughts would be appreciated as a low end 42" CRT isn't going to survive a cost justification of a hefty repair bill.

Repairs on Tosh's are not fun, I say that as a heavily experienced repair tech of many, many years. Aside from conv repair, I won't work on them at all, as far as repair goes. Calibration yes, I'm all over that. Repair, no.

I have 2 fully operational 65" CRT RPTVs ready to go, tho, since I have moved up to a 73" CRT Mit. Both cleaned, calibrated and in excellent condition. Let me know if you want to move up -

Mr Bob

ydgmms

05-17-08, 02:20 PM

ChldsPlay

05-17-08, 04:31 PM

Mr Bob

05-18-08, 07:48 AM

Does anyone know how to affect geometry per gun, without takign the set apart and messing with the CRTs?

When I display the Service Menu convergence pattern, disable all the guns, then turn on one gun at a time, I can see per gun geometry ...mishaps.

Example. With the Red gun, the lower right hand corner bends up a bit, while the lower left hand corner dips down. The blue gun is opposite. The lower right hand bends down, and the the lower left bends up. This makes for .... ugly convergence in those two spots. Green is perfect. I've lived with it for 4 years, but I'm finally getting tired of it, wand wanting great picture.

I'm *ass*uming the only way to fix that is to get inside the set and wiggle the tubes a bit. But I'm hoping someone (Mr. Bob?) can let me in on some settings in the Service Menu that can help me out there. (I have all settings recorded 3 different times).

If the bending down and up is only at the very edges of the pic, you've done all that can be done.

When the edges of the pic both go up or both go down, if there is an invisible row and column off screen, to help what's on screen, both can be drawn down or up, and the invisible point will affect both sides the same way, allowing for perfect compensation and total straightening out. If they are going opposite directions, one up and one down, they must be averaged instead. Both Pioneer and Mit have this offscreen row and column.

Unforuntately, Tosh does not.

You have your choice, and this is worse when the overscan has been taken in: keep your lines as straight as possible till the last possible availability, then let them go up or down, or -

Let a slight squiggle happen out at those edges, to keep the separation of the red vs. the green as innocuous as possible.

Always try to push any such errors out as far to the edge as possible, as we rarely look there during normal viewing.

That said, whenever you play a cinerama widescreen movie where there are t/b black bars, you're gonna see it at those bars out at the edges, no matter what.

Nature of the beast, unforuntately.

:(

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

05-18-08, 07:56 AM

Ok, I just got my mom a PS3 to use as a blu-ray player on her 51H83. I've thought for a long while now that her TV was looking pretty bad. I thought maybe it was just my perception of it just being that much worse than my TV since hers is older lesser technology. But I'm just starting to feel like think something is wrong with her set, even HD looks pretty bad.

The set does not seem to be very vibrant as I remember it being when she first got it (hasn't in a long time now). It seems to have a WAY too strong warm or reddish look to it. When the screen is supposed to be black, it looks very reddish, or maybe even brown. Kind of like the color of a dark brick. I noticed this when I was using the test patterns on the DVE blu-ray. It just wasn't even close to being real black.

Anyone know what this might be? Is there an easy, or at least not too difficult way of fixing this? I told her she needs to just upgrade to a new TV, but she doesn't want to spend the money. It just looks really bad to me, and if that TV were in my house I wouldn't be able to watch it.

Loss of vibrancy is due to the set's being in ferocious need of optics cleaning, which rears its ugly head as getting to desperate status at about the third year of life, tho I clean my optics at least every year. How old is the set, and when was it cleaned last? The 30KV inherent in CRT use really does a number on the optics in there. More info on my website, below.

The rest of it is grayscale, which is what ISF is all about. It has an immense learning curve and requires a minimum of a certain level of equipment, so is not usually done by the consumer. Suffice it to say that if you can get your b/w to be the same color as a dull cloudy day, you're getting real close.

If you want some pointers, let me know privately. NOT by pm, please -

Mr Bob

ChldsPlay

05-18-08, 04:10 PM

Loss of vibrancy is due to the set's being in ferocious need of optics cleaning, which rears its ugly head as getting to desperate status at about the third year of life, tho I clean my optics at least every year. How old is the set, and when was it cleaned last? The 30KV inherent in CRT use really does a number on the optics in there. More info on my website, below.

The rest of it is grayscale, which is what ISF is all about. It has an immense learning curve and requires a minimum of a certain level of equipment, so is not usually done by the consumer. Suffice it to say that if you can get your b/w to be the same color as a dull cloudy day, you're getting real close.

If you want some pointers, let me know privately. NOT by pm, please -

Mr Bob

It's probably about 4 years old. I can't recall exactly.
I was afraid calibration might be needed for the problem with the black. That's not something my mother would be willing to spend money on. She's perfectly ok with how it looks now, even though it's nearly unbearable for me. I'll soon be spending $500 for my TV to be calibrated, but I know she probably wouldn't bother with it unless it was only $50 or less.

ydgmms

05-21-08, 05:13 PM

Mr Bob

05-22-08, 12:20 AM

Mr. Bob,
When you say 'optics cleaning' what do you mean? I had an ISF calibrator come by (..did a not so good job of calibrating). But he did clean the lens.

Are you referring to that basic job of just dusting off the top layer? Or are there more 'optics' that need to be cleaned?

Thanks

Just dusting off the top layer won't begin to do the kind of job that needs to be done after years of service. Maybe in the first 6 mo/1 year, but no longer. After that the grit and dust and soot and smoke get matted on there very strongly, and no dry method is safe to use on them anymore.

Optics cleaning is using a wet method for carefully and safely removing the immense buildup of grit and smoke and dirt that the ionization of the 30KV causes them to attract. The optics - lens tops and mirror for regular - continuously suck all that stuff right out of the air, every minute the set is on and the 30KV is powered up.

On a Tosh chances are you will also need the deeper optics cleaning, which is the CRT coolant covers and lens rears, which requires removal of the lenses, done one each so you can't get them mixed up. And the lenstriping inside under the lenses, if removable. On Tosh's it is generally not removable, you just have to work around it.

All lens optics I have seen in Tosh's are made of plastic, which is very fragile and intensely sensitive to being scratched. Special practices have to be used, which keep those surfaces safe from the permanent damage possible from bad practices.

The mirror is a front surface/first surface type, which has the aluminization on the front of the glass. As such you are not cleaning a glass surface, you are cleaning aluminum, and must not use anythihg that contains ammonia.

Mr Bo

ydgmms

05-22-08, 01:36 AM

Mr Bob

05-22-08, 07:39 AM

Well he did use some liquid. I actually have it here, he forgot it and hasn't come ot pick it up yet... "CleanDr"

http://www.digitalinnovations.com/screen_cleaning.php

But yeah, he only cleaned the top layer, mirror and protective screen. I guess it needs more? (It was manufactured in 2004, and that was the first cleaning - about 2weeks ago)

Looks like a good product. But keep in mind that the coating of dirt to be removed from CRT RPTV lenses and coolant covers is far thicker than anything that product will most likely see in its lifetime, for the uses described in its advertising.

The gritty particulates that can so easily damage your optics need to be suspended in liquid or foam before they can safely be moved off the surfaces involved. This may require that the deeper optics be done as well, down at the CRT coolant covers and lens rears, if the stuff has crawled under the lenses. Which automatically happens anytime there is an air gap between the lenses and the crt coolant covers below them.

Mr Bob

ChldsPlay

05-24-08, 12:31 PM

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r92/PITTDOG1/100_0341.jpg

So which of these are the WRONG screws to remove to do the deeper lens cleaning? Should I be removing the outer most screws or just the ones around the cylinder?

Mr Bob

05-24-08, 02:19 PM

So which of these are the WRONG screws to remove to do the deeper lens cleaning? Should I be removing the outer most screws or just the ones around the cylinder?

Remove JUST the 4 that surround the tubular lens barrel and hold it in place on those rectangular tabs that are part of the lens barrel. NOT the outer ones, which would release coolant, which would get down into your boards below them, damaging those boards if left there over time. Nor the ones BETWEEN the rectangular plastic tabs, ONLY the 4 going into the plastic tabs themselves.

If you concentrate ONLY on the 4 that are up against the tubular barrel, holding it in place, those 4 will get each lens off.

Do them ONE AT A TIME. Complete on one before you go to the next so you can't possibly get them mixed up. If you get them mixed up, an entirely new refocusing op will be required, which will prolly screw up the precision of your dynamic convergence.

After you put each of them back in place, you will need to redo your static conv at the crosshairs. Should not need to redo the 9 points.

You might want to darken them with a black felt pen afterwards, and all other gleaming or white surfaces, before you put the unit back together. This will help to lessen internal reflections, for better fidelity in dark areas, for depth perception.

Mr Bob

ChldsPlay

05-24-08, 02:27 PM

Remove JUST the 4 that surround the tubular lens barrel and hold it in place on those rectangular tabs that are part of the lens barrel. NOT the outer ones, which would release coolant, which would get down into your boards below them, damaging those boards if left there over time. Nor the ones BETWEEN the rectangular plastic tabs, ONLY the 4 going into the plastic tabs themselves.

If you concentrate ONLY on the 4 that are up against the tubular barrel, holding it in place, those 4 will get each lens off.

Do them ONE AT A TIME. Complete on one before you go to the next. If you get them mixed up, an entirely new refocusing op will be required, which will prolly screw up the precision of your convergence too.

After you put each of them back in place, you will need to redo your static conv at the crosshairs. Should not need to redo the 9 points.

You might want to darken them with a black felt pen afterwards, and all other gleaming or white surfaces, before you put the unit back together. This will help to lessen internal reflections, for better fidelity in dark areas, for depth perception.

Mr Bob

Thanks Bob. I had actually just figured that out using the service manual. Where were you 10 minutes ago? :)

Mr Bob

05-24-08, 02:29 PM

BTW, what's with the color arrangement in there? I have never seen the blue gun being in the middle!

:confused:

Mr Bob

ChldsPlay

05-24-08, 04:06 PM

BTW, what's with the color arrangement in there? I have never seen the blue gun being in the middle!

:confused:

Mr Bob

I dunno, that was pittdog's pic I just used his post. But if I recall correctly that's how mine was as well.

The other optics didn't have much dust on them, even when I shined a light on them I could only make out a few specks here and there. Nothing at all like the top lenses.

Trying to do the focus and then convergence now, but ENT is not turning off the blue gun. 0 and 100 turn off the green and red, but nothing happens when I hit ENT.

Mr Bob

05-24-08, 04:47 PM

I dunno, that was pittdog's pic I just used his post. But if I recall correctly that's how mine was as well.

The other optics didn't have much dust on them, even when I shined a light on them I could only make out a few specks here and there. Nothing at all like the top lenses.

Trying to do the focus and then convergence now, but ENT is not turning off the blue gun. 0 and 100 turn off the green and red, but nothing happens when I hit ENT.

I think they changed it on some model years. It's there, you may have to surf the keys to find it.

Don't think there are any keys that you shouldn't touch. Just be ready to turn it off if necessary.

Mr Bob

ChldsPlay

05-24-08, 06:08 PM

Ok, got it figured out. It's the Ch Rtn button (This was also the ENT button on previous remotes). So now the focus and convergence are done. I didn't spend too much time with the convergence, but long enough to get most of it pretty good so there wasn't anything glaringly bad. So with the lens cleaning, focus, and convergence I'd say the picture is much better now. I could actually stand to watch this I think. Cable still looks kind of bad, but that's Comcast I think. Blu-ray discs look much better than when I first tried them last weekend. I still need to make some adjustments, but I'm gonna need to get my DVE disc (which I forgot to bring) first. At least I got everything I needed to get done inside the TV, just a few tweaks in the service menu and it should be good to go. At least as good as I can get it without having it calibrated.

That reddish/brownish color I had in the blacks before seems to be mostly gone. Not sure if that was from cleaning the lens or what exactly, but it's better. I'll definitely be able to tell once I get the test pattern from DVE on the screen.

Mr Bob

05-24-08, 07:16 PM

ChldsPlay

05-24-08, 09:03 PM

I usually find 2 of the 3 lenses out of focus, do a search on the Cantilever Technique for getting the optical focus the best it can be -

You really don't need to wait for DVE, if you're on component. Pull the Pb and Pr, and that will leave you with empirical b/w from having only Y in there.

Which is perfectly usable for grayscale alignment if you know how - using images that capture different light dynamics and such -

Mr Bob

Ah, completely forgot about that. Oh well. Just means another trip out there.

And I was wrong about the guns, the blue was on the right, green in the center. Guess it was just the way the light hit the lens and how the camera was picking it up.

Mr Bob

05-26-08, 01:45 PM

And I was wrong about the guns, the blue was on the right, green in the center. Guess it was just the way the light hit the lens and how the camera was picking it up.

Yeah, ALL CRT tech is like that, green in the center. I was amazed to see blue in the center. Did you Photoshop your colorations? I swear, there's a tiny point of green in the far right lens -

I am still confused as to how the screenshot got that way -

:confused:

Mr Bob

ChldsPlay

05-26-08, 02:13 PM

Yeah, ALL CRT tech is like that, green in the center. I was amazed to see blue in the center. Did you Photoshop your colorations? I swear, there's a tiny point of green in the far right lens -

I am still confused as to how the screenshot got that way -

:confused:

Mr Bob

Have to as pittdog about it, since the picture was his. I just used it so I didn't have to take my own picture. It definitely looks like the green is on the right though.

Smitty20

05-29-08, 03:28 PM

There are 3 layers of the screen, the top layer is a protective plexiglass screen, then the lenticular screen, then a fresnel lens. You can take the plexiglass portion off and put it as the back layer that way you have no glare and in my opinion makes for a better picture. some people have had some success taking it off all together but I have not seen results without some sort of sag from the lenticular screen not being supported properly. I have tried that method and the current method I am talking about seems like a better alternative to me.

Can anyone point me to directions on how to do this? TIA

Mr Bob

05-30-08, 12:08 PM

re. lens stacking -

Can anyone point me to directions on how to do this? TIA

I never restack the glarescreen to the rear position anymore, simply because so much STUFF gets in between the layers in the process. You don't really see it till you have the screen back on and showing a picture, then often you gotta take it all apart and do it all over again, because of all that STUFF that now shows up as a very unwanted part of your picture.

Very few lents have shown waviness from inadequate buttressing up from the missing glarescreen on Tosh's. On Panny's it shows, but only when viewing from the side. It doesn't show from the front even if the lent is so soft as to do that. Most lents are stronger, and only need shimming.

I think that's true about a Tosh - that you only need shimming - but have not done one in ages.

Mr Bob

etcarroll

05-30-08, 01:55 PM

Gregg Lowen of Lion AV did my 57h83 last year, and I had him pull the glarescreen out. He shimmed it with a product that looked like weatherstripping. No problems with sag after a year.

Mr Bob

05-30-08, 02:12 PM

Gregg Lowen of Lion AV did my 57h83 last year, and I had him pull the glarescreen out. He shimmed it with a product that looked like weatherstripping. No problems with sag after a year.

Oh, if there's going to be sag, it will happen immediately.

Mr Bob

floodofnoise

05-31-08, 12:00 AM

Mr Bob

05-31-08, 10:22 AM

Hi everyone,

This is my first post on avs and I have a question for some of you guys. I purchased a 51H84 a few days ago from a local guy here off of Craigslist. This is my first HDTV and I admit to being a total rookie with these things. My wife and I love it and want to get the best experience possible from it. I love to learn new things about tech and am having a blast reading this thread and discovering new concepts (to me) like convergence, ect, ect.

Here are my questions:

How do I know if my T.V. needs calibration, convergence? What are some of the signs you look for to know if you needs to clean the lenses?

The set we bought has a few scratches on the screen that go through the antiglare coating. Is there a way to remove the coating completely? Any help/ advice is greatly appreciated. :)

Welcome! You came to the right place.

Via the Cantilever Technique, I usually find that 2 of the 3 lenses are out of focus, straight from the factory.

The optics become in desperate need of cleaning by about the 3rd year. On Tosh's, usually the deeper optics need it too. If you struggle to see detail in dark areas, if a bright object against a crystal clear background has haze glowing all around it, your set is NOT worn out because of this. Its optics simply need cleaning, and badly. Don't rush headlong into this op - if you scratch your lenses or strip your mirror, it's permanent and irrevocable.

The difference between dirty optics and clean is the difference between the murky depths in Finding Nemo and the crystal clear air, in the on-land scenes.

If you see red or green edges - or blue and yellow edges - around letters and other sharp high contrast items, then your converegnce is off and needs tightening. The user 9 points only affect their local areas, for anything between them you gotta go into service mode. Any curvatures in the sm grid caused by the 9 points have to be straightened out in the 9 points before you can expect them to align properly in the sm, even if they push the sm grid farther off. It can be realigned back again in the sm, but its lines need to be straight and parallel with each other, to do so.

All CRT RPTV tech has overscan built-in. It can be eradicated, but there's a strong learning curve to mastering that. Taking in the overscan is the easy part. Dealing with how badly it hoses your picture is what takes the talent.

If your grayscale on b/w material is not the color of a dull cloudy day, your grayscale is not at D6500K like it should be. Manufacturers usually set it at very blue-white in the whites, to show up better in well-lit showrooms in their constant competition with each other on the showroom floor, whose ever it is.

For videophile performance, contrast is always set at halfway up on the bargraph - at 50% - or below. On the later Tosh models, the Sharpness has to be around 35%, whereas on the older models 50% worked just fine.

Mr Bob

floodofnoise

05-31-08, 05:59 PM

Thanks Mr. Bob!

I'm going to spend a couple of weeks researching some tweaks and then I'll take the plunge with cleaning and tweaking.

I read some of your tips on the Keohi website and will heed all warnings and advice.

Mr Bob

06-01-08, 08:24 AM

7 year old Pioneer SD unit, same day, before and after a full Image Perfection workup. Please forgive the images being reversed from each other, and mirror imaged.

I highly recommend keeping your older CRT RPTV alive and kicking, no matter what its brand.

SAME DAY -

Mr Bob

Before -

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/7316/opticsbeforeaq0.jpg[/URL]

After -

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/1382/opticsafterzt4.jpg[/URL]

floodofnoise

06-01-08, 08:49 PM

Mr Bob

06-02-08, 02:32 AM

Wow Mr. Bob, that is an insane difference! I'd say my image is closer to the first, so a cleaning would definitely be in order as a first step. I just ordered a replacement protector screen because of the scratches I have, so that gives me the ample excuse I need to open this thing up. Too bad you are located so far away because I would definitely have you guys come over and do a job on my set. I may be able to find someone in the Atlanta area, but that is still 90 miles away from me. Thanks for the advice, we need people like you who are willing to share there knowledge and expertise, thanks again.

Did an Atlanta tour last year, afterwards somebody from the tour started a thread called "Mr Bob does Atlanta". Others on the tour pitched in. There have actually been several "Mr Bob does..." threads started by those whose sets I did on my tours.

I am glad to come across the country on cal tours. Set it up and I will come. I fly out of OAK -

;)

Mr Bob

PS - Some shots I took of your famous Marriot there. The Marquee? AWESOME place -

(BTW, these are not screenshots and I admit are just a LITTLE off topic; will remove them if you want, but I thought this place is worth mentioning and illustrating, just for recreational purposes. Reminded me of Forbidden Planet -)

On the one day off I would be having while there, the night before I got supremely lucky and Discovery was doing a feature on - where else? - Atlanta! Don't know how I got so lucky, but it showed me half a dozen must-see places in Atlanta. This is the one I liked most -

View from the top. It's about a 50 story strucure. That's the lobby down there -

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/8765/2407reginapalmsprings16do8.jpg[/URL]

View from the bottom -

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1426/2407reginapalmsprings14zq0.jpg[/URL]

A different view from the top -

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4534/2407reginapalmsprings16te3.jpg[/URL]

ddeacon

06-04-08, 09:01 PM

Mr Bob

06-05-08, 03:20 AM

floodofnoise

06-05-08, 09:45 AM

Sorry if this is a cross post but I though since I have a Toshiba 51H84C maybe I should have posted in this thread...

My TV went out the other day (3rd time in 3 years) and am debating on getting it fixed vs replacing. The last two times it went, a power transistor blew and it cost $300 to fix (both times). Those times is failed differently than this time though so I was debating trying to fix it myself. When I turned the TV on, I heard a snap and the picture never came up, I still have audio though. The last couple of times, it wouldn't even turn on.

I don't have a service manual or anything like that so not sure where to start. Like I said, there is sound but no picture, when I change inputs it doesn't make a difference and I don't even see the input text come up.

Thanks,
D

I bought the service manual (download) because I thought that there may be some troubleshooting material in the book. I didn't come across any real answers when it comes to electrical repair. Only if you know how to read schematics and make the correct judgement calls based off of experience would it be any help to you.

Funny thing is that I am an electro-mechanical techinician by trade. The machines I work on have pretty advanced diagnostics. The new generation of machines I service don't require an advanced knowledge of schematics because we do not repair the circuit boards or power supplies , we replace them. Boards are becoming cheaper to replace than paying someone top dollar to repair them.

Mr. Bob is spot on with his advice here, unless you are very comfortable with tracing schematics, leave it up to the pros.

2ds

06-08-08, 02:12 AM

HI:)
new to forum and im hoping im posting this is the right place. we have a toshiba 57h54. we sometimes when watching will see a spider walk across the INSIDE.i have read on several boards that there is a way to open these up and clean the dust and cob webs out. does anyone have any step by step instructions on how to do this on this particular set?

cynicalcriminal

06-10-08, 11:06 AM

Mr Bob

06-10-08, 12:15 PM

Hi guys. I posted a question in its own thread before I found this specific thread to our TVs.

Any ideas what I can do about my issue: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14050693&posted=1#post14050693

I'm afraid I may have to just scrap my TV, and it worked perfectly fine before I did whatever it was I did to make it angry at me.

Somehow you have pushed your convergence - or maybe even your geometry - parameters WAY out of factory specs. And it's overheating, and quickly!

You gotta put it back where it was, to start with, then do it again the right way. I have reduced overscan on tons of Tosh's, and have never had this problem. It CAN be done, and you don't need to worry about dumping your set.

Set it back to the factory settings you started with - of COURSE you wrote them down before changing anything, this has been standard issue advice for years - and go from there. I doubt you will be able to put back your points to the same positions, because those are rarely written down even when they are available, but once you put back the geomety registers, the points should fall into place again.

You gotta get back to the garden -

Mr Bob

cynicalcriminal

06-10-08, 12:27 PM

Its weird. I had it working nicely after tweaking it the first time. It just had a weird convergence issue, but I was happy with the geometry. The set worked fine after that. When I went back in to fix the convergence ... that is when it started overheating.

I just reset the HIT & WID parameters back to their pre-tweaking levels. The VPOS & HPOS I do not have numbers for ... I thought I had written them down, but it looks like I had only recorded the other two values. Massively stupid mistake right there, I'm sure :(

The convergence is where it started acting funny though. The weird "folding" of the red grid in the top left corner of the screen is what scares me. I think maybe I pushed the convergence too far trying to fix it and I have no idea how to get it back to how it was "before" the set started overheating.

When it shuts off, you can hear sizzling. I'm totally overheating it ... but I have no idea how to get it to stop so I can re-attempt to adjust the settings to a watchable level. I wish there was a way to just "restore factory settings" or "restore to default levels" .. so that I had a clean slate to start over with :(

eddy_winds

06-10-08, 02:12 PM

toshiba 57h54?

WaltA

06-10-08, 02:27 PM

I have reduced overscan on tons of Tosh's, and have never had this problem. It CAN be done, and you don't need to worry about dumping your set.

Could you please share some of the steps, with us?

cynicalcriminal

06-10-08, 02:44 PM

toshiba 57h54?

Toshiba 57H84

Mr Bob

06-10-08, 11:18 PM

Could you please share some of the steps, with us?

The conv sys works best when not stressed. That means when the registers are near their midpoints. If something is folding, you can bet it's not anywhere near its midpoint.

That' s why we do all we can with the geometry registers, and try to use the points just for mop-up and fine trim.

All the points are highly interactive with each other when they are adjoining each other, and can affect points several points away. A smooth pic results from getting them all working together without banging away at each other in the process, constantly pushing against each other while they should be co-operating with each other.

On the Mit and Pio's, each and every point has a hor and a vert value. You can write them down.

On the Mit's, it's better to always start with each point centered at zero. The Pio's are not as co-operative, and just centering them in their hex language is not the answer there. DK about Tosh's, whether they give you the numbers or not.

I don't know how you'll pull it off without continuing to overheat it, but what I would do would be to try to find the midpoints in all your points in the sys, at least where they are stressing out most. For instance, if one point is pushed way out while its adjoining point is not, their travel should instead by averaged between the 2, if possible.

Gotta go for now. Will be thinking about this -

Mr Bob

lcaillo

06-11-08, 07:27 AM

If it is overheating that badly, you can bet that there is a problem with a component, not just adjustment range. I would be looking for an open resistor or solder joint, or a bad output amp.

I would also check to be sure that there is not significant d.c. on the inputs to the convergence amps. A lot of d.c. offset from a DCU can cause overheating and distortion in the raster.

Mr Bob

06-11-08, 10:45 AM

I have never had this to contend with on a Tosh, so am just shooting from the hip here, but last time I had to correct a similar sit on a Hit - owner had messed it up real bad, on one of my LA tours - I wound up feeling out the centerpoints to the point sys. I found that the green didn't have nearly as much play in it as the red and blue did - or vice versa, can't remember right now, has only happened once, years ago - and as such the green had to get much more back to the garden than the other colors. Or vice versa.

A geometry reg can mimic the same duty as a set of points. You can have the points ALL go an inch in a certain direction - would take awhile, but it could be done - whereas if you did that same thing via the POSition geom reg, it would only take a few ticks to do the same thing. MUCH less stress on the sys.

I once had a Mit where the ENTIRE point sys had been set so far into the negative regions on EVERY point, that the ENTIRE picture was shifted to the side by 7"! It was causing bad alignment, and BETWEEN the points, where it could not be corrected. And this was done at the factory! The point positions on a Mit are supposed to center at zero and go from there, averaging around zero all around. They are NOT supposed to be all negative! That was a dead giveaway.

On a Pioneer, I once tried centering the points, and after having done half of them, found that the whole thing just kept getting worse and worse and worse. Since I had written down each and every point position I had changed, I was able to get it back. Later I heard that the 2nd Factory sm has a reset in it, which evidently gets those points back where the factory starts with, even tho it's not at their centerpoints. I would not know how to do that on a Tosh.

Fortunately - or maybe unfortunately - on a Mit you have 511 positions in EACH direction, per point. That's 2044 potential positions per point! And 72 points. Tosh's and Hit's don't have nearly that much play per point. If you feel out the play on each point, you'll see what I mean. Don't go too far once it has started to fold over or bend, tho. Going even farther out will definitely cause your set to shut down, and it might be impossible to get it back then, without factory intervention.

But you can see how OUT you could possibly make that scenario. And since the owner had on Mit's master planner feature, where the remote worked all the units in the sys at once, it took forever to get it right again, the movement of everything was SO slow. After 4 hours, the points were zero'd again, and the geom/conv sys restructured correctly.

It's real easy for a foldover or bend to occur in that scenario, where the points are already way out from where they should be. Whenever you experience a foldover or bend in response to what you are doing, you can bet you've just exceeded that point's position capacity, and should back off in the other direction, possibly quite substantially. Find some other way to do what you are trying to do.

One thing many Tosh owners don't know about the 9 point sys in user is that it carries into the sm. If substantially off in user, it makes curves in the sm grids that are impossible to change in sm. You HAVE to have the 9 points set such that the sm grids have STRAIGHT lines, not curved ones, even if that pushes the lines farther apart from each other on the sm grid. That can be remedied in sm. Curved lines cannot.

You'll need that fan on the case for awhile, till you get this all straightened out. I don't know if anything in there is actually popped right now, as Len suggests - it wasn't before, when it was working right, but something coulda gotten pushed way out of shape by now, and opened or burned up.

But what I do know is that if something HAS popped in there due to what is currently happening, if so it will continue to do so until this way out of factory/design spec sit is corrected.

Mr Bob

2ds

06-11-08, 01:10 PM

cynicalcriminal

06-11-08, 07:40 PM

Update: I played around with the Tosh again today. I figured since I had "bent" the image during 56-point convergence a couple times trying to get it to fix the screen I should unbend it. Get it back to the settings as best I can, right?

So .. I ran touch focus. Green scans fine, but when it gets to red it shuts the TV off. So I figure it is the red gun that is off and overheating.

I started moving the convergence around in that corner until it "unbent" a couple times ... and ran touch focus again. Now it completes (about 80% of the time) the touch focus scanning ... but when it gets done I get the error:

Touch Focus Error TBLR

That is better than it was before, right? *Hopeful* Maybe I'm pulling the problem back from the depths of beyond the grave?

~Cyn

Mr Bob

06-12-08, 01:21 AM

George Jetson

06-12-08, 10:45 AM

Touch Focus Error TBLR

~Cyn

I ran into the same message when I was tweaking the overscan on my 50HDX82 (it's similar to the 'H83s). I think it indicates that the edge sensors are having trouble picking up the touch focus scanlines as they move across the screen. The 4 letters tell you which sensor (top, bottom, left, right) is having trouble. In my case I was only getting one or two letters in the message (like "T" or "TL"), but it looks like yours is having trouble with all 4. I'll bet if you bump up the HIT and WID parameters up a couple of ticks you can make it go away.

Note I am not an expert, just a fellow owner speculating based on what I've seen on my set.

Mr Bob

06-12-08, 12:32 PM

I ran into the same message when I was tweaking the overscan on my 50HDX82 (it's similar to the 'H83s). I think it indicates that the edge sensors are having trouble picking up the touch focus scanlines as they move across the screen. The 4 letters tell you which sensor (top, bottom, left, right) is having trouble. In my case I was only getting one or two letters in the message (like "T" or "TL"), but it looks like yours is having trouble with all 4. I'll bet if you bump up the HIT and WID parameters up a couple of ticks you can make it go away.

Note I am not an expert, just a fellow owner speculating based on what I've seen on my set.

Sounds absolutely right. In such a case, the overscan has been taken in too much for the Touch Focus to do its job right. The pic has been shrunk too much for the edge sensors to be being bombarded correctly by their internal TF program. You gotta have SOME overscan for it to work properly, as those sensors are out past the viewable screen area.

Expand the pic back out on its height and width till you no longer get that error message, let TF get it close, then start over.

Mr Bob

DukeSC74

06-13-08, 02:26 PM

Hey guys, I'm still toying with the settings on my 51H84 and just wanted to get an idea of what some of you have for Contrast, Brightness, Tint, Sharpness etc...thanks!

cynicalcriminal

06-14-08, 08:57 PM

Sounds absolutely right. In such a case, the overscan has been taken in too much for the Touch Focus to do its job right. The pic has been shrunk too much for the edge sensors to be being bombarded correctly by their internal TF program. You gotta have SOME overscan for it to work properly, as those sensors are out past the viewable screen area.

Expand the pic back out on its height and width till you no longer get that error message, let TF get it close, then start over.

Mr Bob

Well I'm giving it the old college try. I expanded the image back out to the height and width settings prior to me tweaking the set. I still get the TBRL error. I tried adjusting the HPOS and VPOS one way or the other and retesting to see if it makes ONE of the T,B,R or L errors go away. No dice.

I've just about given up on this one, as much as it hurts to say. I ordered a new television to be delivered and am unsure if I'll continue playing with this Tosh for a while to see if I can stumble on the right settings or attempt to sell it on craigslist to someone that has more luck/patience/know-how then I do about these things. :(

Mr Bob

06-16-08, 04:46 PM

Well I'm giving it the old college try. I expanded the image back out to the height and width settings prior to me tweaking the set. I still get the TBRL error. I tried adjusting the HPOS and VPOS one way or the other and retesting to see if it makes ONE of the T,B,R or L errors go away. No dice.

I've just about given up on this one, as much as it hurts to say. I ordered a new television to be delivered and am unsure if I'll continue playing with this Tosh for a while to see if I can stumble on the right settings or attempt to sell it on craigslist to someone that has more luck/patience/know-how then I do about these things. :(

First try disco'ing your set's power from the wall for a couple of minutes, to get the micro to recycle in there when you plug it back in, like rebooting a computer. That may be necessary to clear the error message about the TF. Try the TF in its present condition after doing that and see.

If the ht and wd registers didn't get it back for you, perhaps you already altered the points too much as well. Try finding their centerpoints and getting them back to them, on maybe just one corner. That way you can at least find out how off they are from their centers, which is what usually causes any bending or foldover.

I would start with one corner and take all the points in that corner back to their midpoints and go from there. That would relieve a whole lot of stress from your sys. If it works I would go to the next corner, or maybe even just midpoint all the points and start completely over, with your original ht and wd register values back where they started from.

This is the classic way of getting back to the garden that we do for Mit's. It can't be done that way with Pio's, but maybe it can with Tosh's.

Mr Bob