The reset just put it back to as it came from the factory, your bulb hours get reset back also. You're ok. Reason I know is since getting colorfacts as a safety value on fixing things, I've done several total resets and each time it just returns all the original factory services numbers, the original user numbers also. No worries. ;)

Ken re calibration,
On contrast it doesn't have to be exact half brightness on the moving bars. Just bring it back till the right bar just comes back and add 2 more clicks. You'll find this makes it easy when you tune the brightness and come back to the contrast. The contrast bars will still be visable and no going back and fourth to find the sweet spot.

Bring up the gray steps in the Needle pulse or pluge pattern and first toggle the color temp for best grays. After that if you have to use the Advanced RGB's start tieh the brightness ones first to delete the green.

Ok you need to go back four clicks on the green (stop) and make it just 2 clicks and in turn increase the red and blue to two clicks each.

Use a movie you know well like the Fifth Element, use facial shots to tune, like Leeloo or Frodo in the shire scene etc.
good luck

Now I can get to putting back in my old values. Thanks so much Tom!

Originally posted by guitarman

Ken re calibration,
On contrast it doesn't have to be exact half brightness on the moving bars. Just bring it back till the right bar just comes back and add 2 more clicks. You'll find this makes it easy when you tune the brightness and come back to the contrast. The contrast bars will still be visable and no going back and fourth to find the sweet spot.

Bring up the gray steps in the Needle pulse or pluge pattern and first toggle the color temp for best grays. After that if you have to use the Advanced RGB's start tieh the brightness ones first to delete the green.

Ok you need to go back four clicks on the green (stop) and make it just 2 clicks and in turn increase the red and blue to two clicks each.

Use a movie you know well like the Fifth Element, use facial shots to tune, like Leeloo or Frodo in the shire scene etc.
good luck

Thanks Tom,
What about color saturation. Do you a color level adjustment on the H77 when using component? If not, do you just have to accept what the projector gives you? This seems very unusual to me.

You continue to use the Avia color pattern for saturation. I know there's no color adjustment avail with DVI, thought for sure there was for a progressive component signal but I'll check. This moring I just sent an interlaced signal via component and did have the color adjustment.

To all H77 owners

Last week the projector won`t startup due to a lamp fail (shining red lamp led and flashing blue led). When i tried again after ten minutes, the projector worked fine. This happened twice in the last few days.

My question.... is this normal when it happens sometimes, or is the lamp(bulb) going to end soon ?

Hoping for some answers...

Thanks
Henk

I just got mine about 3 weeks ago and it has done this 3 times. It will fail to startup and if you simply flip off the main power switch and turn it back on it works fine. I too am wondering if this is normal.

Originally posted by Reveille
I just got mine about 3 weeks ago and it has done this 3 times. It will fail to startup and if you simply flip off the main power switch and turn it back on it works fine. I too am wondering if this is normal. Mine never did that, ever.

The only time I have seen this happen is when I turned the projector power switch off and did not shut it down using the pushbutton or remote. When I did this the next startup failed and I had to retry.

Originally posted by Clint_Ostwald
To all H77 owners

Last week the projector won`t startup due to a lamp fail (shining red lamp led and flashing blue led). When i tried again after ten minutes, the projector worked fine. This happened twice in the last few days.

My question.... is this normal when it happens sometimes, or is the lamp(bulb) going to end soon ?

Hoping for some answers...

Thanks
Henk

I have found that I can get this problem to occur if I turn on the PJ first and while it is starting up, turn on my receiver. The receiver draws a bunch of power when it starts up and it appears this drags down the power available for the PJ just enough to cause the above mentioned failure. My solution is to turn on the receiver first. If I do that, I almost never get the lamp fail problem.

Ira

rcweiss,

Have you gotten your H77 back from Optoma? Curious to see if the panning issues are improved.

Originally posted by iblumberg
I have found that I can get this problem to occur if I turn on the PJ first and while it is starting up, turn on my receiver. The receiver draws a bunch of power when it starts up and it appears this drags down the power available for the PJ just enough to cause the above mentioned failure. My solution is to turn on the receiver first. If I do that, I almost never get the lamp fail problem.

Ira

Thanks Ira.... this could really be the solution for me also. I wil try this when my projector is back.
It was picked up this morning by a koerier for a repair(uneven focus) and for adding the latest upgrade at Optoma UK.

Thanks :)
Henk

Got the updated H77 projector from Optoma today. Turn it on and it is version C16 not C17 as promised. (we already know that C16 does nothing for the panning issues and I confirmed this) Obviously not happy I called and talked to Optoma support manager who now says that C17 has not been approved by the factory yet and that is why I got C16 since C17 would not be supported for any problems with it. Asked why I was told they had the projector they were going to send me running the new firmware and it looked better - he could only say they jumped the gun. So I am shipping back the new projector I just got with the C16 and waiting until the C17 is released (hopefully this week) to swap again. Giant pain in the rear end not to mention expensive for Optoma to waste all this shipping.

Bob

I had this same power up problem and had to return my H77 for a warranty replacement. I run a dedicated source of AC power from the breaker box up to the projector so I don't believe that a power dip was responsible for the problem. My replacement projector is fine.....

Bob

Originally posted by scotthorton
Mine never did that, ever.
The first one I got from PP did that and I asked for an exchange. Has not happened again. It is NOT normal.
Best,
chris

Things to do when this happens is re-seat the bulb, check the bulb door's closed right, total unplug to re-boot the computer. If it keeps giving trouble opt for a new one.

One thing with the Optoma line, in all the manuals it states to not have any signals on when first starting up.

Hey guys,

I had a brief demo of the Optima H-30 (or was it the 31?) yesterday and was incredibly impressed with the image. For the money I thought is was incredible bang for the buck. Even though I also saw the Sim 2 projector that day, and while the Sim 2 (as set up) seemed to have a finer, slightly sharper image, I was more impressed with the apparent contrast ratio, deep blacks and color saturation of the Optima.

So I'm curious if anyone can tell me what kind of improvement an H77 would offer over what I saw in the H-30 model.

Thanks.

iblumberg
Thanks for the tip. You are correct, if I turn the projector on and before you get the warming up screen turn on the reciever it will cause the lock up. If you wait until you get the warming up screen than you can turn on the reciever.

When I turn on projector and than turn on reciever it will sometimes lock up wth the lamp bulb on. It must be sensing the change in current and simply not booting up the projector.

I've had this issue three times since I bought it back in October of last year. It's on a dedicated plug, so who knows why. After unplugging and waiting about five minutes, everything is fine.

Originally posted by rcweiss
Got the updated H77 projector from Optoma today. Turn it on and it is version C16 not C17 as promised. (we already know that C16 does nothing for the panning issues and I confirmed this) Obviously not happy I called and talked to Optoma support manager who now says that C17 has not been approved by the factory yet and that is why I got C16 since C17 would not be supported for any problems with it. Asked why I was told they had the projector they were going to send me running the new firmware and it looked better - he could only say they jumped the gun. So I am shipping back the new projector I just got with the C16 and waiting until the C17 is released (hopefully this week) to swap again. Giant pain in the rear end not to mention expensive for Optoma to waste all this shipping.

Bob

This is quite strange. I dropped my H77 at Optoma on 3/1 for firmware update, re-calibration (due to my accidental reset), and fixing the panning problem (hey it was worth a shot).

It took Optoma 2 days to finish and I picked it up on 3/4. I just checked and it says it has c17 firmware. I have the following observations.

* I'm frustrated because the "Letterbox" display option has not changed from my c06 (or was it c08, whatever, it was the first released US version) firmware. It still just stretches the image vertically. This is of no use that I can determine. If it zoomed the image both horizontally and vertically, then it would be useful for those programs/DVDs that are not anamorphic, but are masked to show wide screen. I thought this was one of the things that the new firmware was supposed to do.

* Calibration - the image looks nice, but I can't say for sure that it was recalibrated. In any case, the gray ramp on VE looks a bit pink in the higher IRE steps. Perhaps I will get brave and play with the red contrast which I think can tone this down a bit.

* I don't own any of the really good torture test DVDs. I did look at various scenes in LOTR - Fellowship EE. There still seems to be some panning artifacts. However, I am not too sensitive to this problem. Also, I have found that adjusting the CWI to minimize banding in static images also helps to reduce the panning problem. After adjusting the CWI slightly, I notice a bit of "noise" in pans (as I did before the firmware update). The noise looks a bit like a herring bone pattern across items that are moving in the pan. I have not seen any really bad examples of the "clay face" or loss of bit depth pan problem, but I was getting very little of this even before the firmware update since I had adjusted my CWI.

Overall, I don't see much of a change, but since I got all the work done while I was out of town, I didn't have to miss any nights with the PJ. Since the only cost was driving 20 minutes each way to Optomoa to drop off and pick up, it was worth it for me. I'm not sure without further testing that I can recommend this process to out of town folks. Hopefully Optoma will come up with a better fix for the panning artifacts. Then it will be time for service.

Just to be clear, the Optoma folks I dealt with were great. Everyone was polite, helpful and concerned. The service was quick and they told me to bring it back for further service if I was not satisfied. I will likely wait several months to see if Optoma comes up with any further fixes for artifacts. If so, I'll give them a go.

Also to be clear, I still love this PJ. The images are bright and vibrant with good sharpenss, detail, black level and overall picture. While I can see the occassional artifact, it really does not bother me too much, just like seeing the occassional rainbow, I have gotten used to it.

Ira

Hello Everyone,

I have decided that at the current price, the Optoma H77 will be my first projector. I am ordering one today. I hope that since I am "inexperienced" in what to look for, that the panning issue is something I'm just not going to notice. I also hope I don't get shipped an open box item that was sent back (for that very reason).

Edit: I was just informed Optoma techs were out Monday and Tuesday of last week installing firmware C17 on all their H77's, so I am told my project will have this version on it.

Anyway, I am very excited as I was not planning on having this caliber of projector, but for me at least, it is worth the price over the Z2000 (the other projector I was considering).

I only made it through about 18 pages of this thread last night, but have read a lot about the H77 both positive and negative. I will post my findings when I get it all set up. I'm sure I will have calibration and setup questions, but there is already a lot of information out here available. Thanks for this thread!

-Jason

Originally posted by Cactus Matt
I've had this issue three times since I bought it back in October of last year. It's on a dedicated plug, so who knows why. After unplugging and waiting about five minutes, everything is fine.

seems like a power supply problem in some 77s on fireing the lamp
dont thay require 2kv or so to start the arc,

"Letterbox" display option has not changed from my c06 (or was it c08, whatever, it was the first released US version) firmware. It still just stretches the image vertically."

Letterbox is just for squased down non-anamorphic dvds. You want the aspect just to stretch the image up vertically, not from all sides. I think it's working correctly for you. It works this way with the H79.

DLP 1 chip dither, don't worry about it, these odd short clips are not the end of the world to discount a fine projector. They play odd on most all dlps. We never even talked about it with out NEC HT1000's and the scenes play oddly on it also. For me the panning talk is overblown. Enjoy the movie :)

I had my first lamp fail yesterday - it never happened until I read about it here!

All was fine on the second attempt though. :)

Gary.

I agree with Guitarman that panning talk is way overblown. I never noticed it until I played the specific scenes listed on this forum. It routine watching I have never seen it.

Thats for the tip on the lamp fail as it is reproducible when starting the projector and reciever at the same time. Tips like that is what makes this board worth while.

I got the correct projector with the C17 firmware today. I just powered it up to check the firmware and will calibrate and test over the weekend to see if anything has improved.

Bob

Originally posted by rcweiss
I got the correct projector with the C17 firmware today. I just powered it up to check the firmware and will calibrate and test over the weekend to see if anything has improved.

Bob

Over the weekend???:confused:

What are you doing now?...Sleeping???

:D

Bruno

Bruno:

Did you menation you have an Extech meter? If you do could you take a measurment of your H77 at 14' while it's zoomed to 8' wide? Don't kow if your setup will allow a measurment at 14'. I want to see what ballpark your meter reads relative to what the meter I have is reading. I have an idea how bright the H77 is, ought to be pretty close to the H79 anyway.

Thanks,
Scott

With the lowering price of the Optoma 77, what's a better way to go, the 77 or the new DLP projectors like the Sharp 2000 or Toshiba 700. I've been away from pricing for a while and was surprised to see low pricing of the 77 and Infocus 7205. Until very recently, it seemed the Optoma 77 was the best of all but the high dollar machines.

Thanks

Originally posted by scotthorton
Bruno:

Did you menation you have an Extech meter? If you do could you take a measurment of your H77 at 14' while it's zoomed to 8' wide? Don't kow if your setup will allow a measurment at 14'. I want to see what ballpark your meter reads relative to what the meter I have is reading. I have an idea how bright the H77 is, ought to be pretty close to the H79 anyway.

Thanks,
Scott

I will do that tonight. With the white diffuser on? or without it.

My extech meter has a white diffuser that came with it. It's a small white disk. I don't know if it came with the meter or my Smart3 package.

14 feet from the tip of the lens? Center of the screen I gess?

Bruno

Originally posted by bgosselin
My extech meter has a white diffuser that came with it. It's a small white disk. I don't know if it came with the meter or my Smart3 package.
14 feet from the tip of the lens? Center of the screen I gess?
Thanks Bruno:

1) Yes with the white diffusor on. It's actually part of the meter and shouldl be there for "normal" measurments. Something to do with cosine corrections, etc. You should measure with it on.

2) Measure at a point where the screen would be if it were measured 14' from the tip of the lens along a horizontal line. Or said differently, a 14' line across the floor starting perpindicular to the lens, ending perpindicular to the meter.

Then, vertically from the floor take the measurment in the vertical center of the projected image.

Oh, and please zoom the PJ so at 14' the image is 8'wide if that's possible. Then you'll be measuring the same as my setup.

I need something to draw with <smile>

Thanks,
Scott

All clear. Will do

Originally posted by scotthorton
Bruno:

Did you menation you have an Extech meter? If you do could you take a measurment of your H77 at 14' while it's zoomed to 8' wide? Don't kow if your setup will allow a measurment at 14'. I want to see what ballpark your meter reads relative to what the meter I have is reading. I have an idea how bright the H77 is, ought to be pretty close to the H79 anyway.

Thanks,
Scott

I did some measurement. It wasn't that easy. I did my best and I could have been off by a few inches. My H77 has 110 hours on the bulb.

Calibration has a lot to do with the number. I don't have any professional equipment. Avia disk and my eye. I'm trying to buy and Opticone package from onecall but they don't deliver to Canada:(

Anyway! here is the number.

With my calibration low lamp mode vs high lamp mode.
117.4 lux 153.3 lux

With contrast at max
128.4 lux 166.8 lux

I check my contrast ratio from 20 inches away

With my calibration low lamp (I forgot to measure high lamp)
2253:1
I think I could get more with a tool like opticone. I measure 2600:1 last time. I reduce contrast a bit since then.

I also check if I put brightness at the minimum for 0 IRE measure and if I boost contrast to max for 100 IRE

low lamp vs high lamp
3215:1 3099:1

I see now how Optoma reach 3500:1

Hope this help.

Please take my number with a grain of salt. I wasn't anal about it. I did it quickly.

Bruno

I have heard that the Mitsubishi D2010 is supposed to be "very similar" to the H77.........

Does anyone know what the differences are?

Is the Mits sold in the US?

Thanks,

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
I have heard that the Mitsubishi D2010 is supposed to be "very similar" to the H77.........

Does anyone know what the differences are?

Is the Mits sold in the US?

Thanks,

Very similar but Mitsubishi has different electronic (scaler) and firmware I think. I ask about using the mitsubishi firmware on the Optoma because I heard that panning is less an issue with the D2010 but someone mention that it would be really risky.

D2010 is probably more expensive.

Bruno

do you have a Fry's electronics in Vegas? They should carry the MIT's 2000.

Got the projector with the C17 firmware installed and setup and did not notice any appreciable change in the panning issues. This is only a minor issue to me but no improvement seems to be gained with this firmware release. I would not recommend having the update done since I did not see any noticable differences in picture quality. If I notice anything I will post it. - note I am not using any PAL sources.

Originally posted by rcweiss
Got the projector with the C17 firmware installed and setup and did not notice any appreciable change in the panning issues. This is only a minor issue to me but no improvement seems to be gained with this firmware release. I would not recommend having the update done since I did not see any noticable differences in picture quality. If I notice anything I will post it. - note I am not using any PAL sources.

That is really sad. Why do they release so many firmware upgrade if the difference between them is so slim?

Anybody knows if the Mistubishi equivalent to the H77 (D2010 and HC2000) have also problem with panning? I don't understand why Optoma can just slow down the colorwheel to give more time to the mirrors to flip. That would give option to the customer. Rainbow or Panning artifacts.

Bruno

Bruno,
Yes, the HC2000 does have panning problems. But, I can't say if the panning is any better or worse than the H77 (because I've never seen a H77 in action).

Reveilli, you have a PM

Originally posted by bgosselin
That is really sad. Why do they release so many firmware upgrade if the difference between them is so slim?

Anybody knows if the Mistubishi equivalent to the H77 (D2010 and HC2000) have also problem with panning? I don't understand why Optoma can just slow down the colorwheel to give more time to the mirrors to flip. That would give option to the customer. Rainbow have been or Panning artifacts.

Bruno

Hai, read the thread on the H78 that seems to be a small hardware update to the H77 (upgrade cost about $150) we are waiting on the results of the upgrade. Also the colorwheel does slow down just try moving the signal from 60hz to 50hz (if you can you hear it happening). The info on the H78 seems to state it uses a higher mirrorspeed provided by the hd2+ and now used by new software/hardware provided by TI changes are that this will have the effect some people have been waiting for.

Daniel.

Ok, but any new on mitsu land, or it won't be upgraded in the same way as optoma cousin?

cheers

Juan

Originally posted by danielo
Hai, read the thread on the H78 that seems to be a small hardware update to the H77 (upgrade cost about $150) we are waiting on the results of the upgrade. Also the colorwheel does slow down just try moving the signal from 60hz to 50hz (if you can you hear it happening). The info on the H78 seems to state it uses a higher mirrorspeed provided by the hd2+ and now used by new software/hardware provided by TI changes are that this will have the effect some people have been waiting for.

Daniel.


I can run my H77 at 48hz but it doesn't help on the panning issue.

Bruno

The H78 has a firmware to match better video in PAL land. It still uses the HD2+ chip.

Originally posted by guitarman
The H78 has a firmware to match better video in PAL land. It still uses the HD2+ chip.

That seem to be and hardware upgrade. Or else they wouldn't call that an H78. Can you check with optoma if an hardware upgrade could fix the panning problem? I'm sure it a bad design that cause that issue. If it was only a mirror speed, reducing the color wheel would at least reduce the panning effect. It does nothing.

Bruno

Danielo posted some new CR and lumen figures in another thread:


Brightness has been improved from 900 to 1000 ansi
cr levels increased from 3500:1 to 3800:1


It's possible it's a modified colour wheel - if the RGB segments allow more light through to increase image brightness, and the dark green segments remain the same to help keep the black level where it is, then we will see a brighter image and therefore more CR.

Gary.

I spoke with Optoma tech support in the US and they informed me that there are no plans to upgrade US models beyond software, e.g., no $150 deals. That being said, can someone please provide me with calibrated lumens output for this PJ. Also, what is the best screen mate for it? I have searched all the threads on it and can not locate these specifics. I have a dedicated room with light control. My source units are Onkyo SP1000 for DVD and Motorola 6412 for HDTV.

Here are my results for a 60hr lamp calibrated:

High lamp 510 lumens
Low lamp 389 lumens.

Gary.

Gary,
What screen material and size are you using to get these measurements?

I measured direct from the pj which was firing at a 7ft wide screen, but the result are the same regardless of screen size. The ft lamberts will vary with screen size and gain though. I'm using a 1.2 gain screen, and I use a lens filter now. The results with a lens filter are lower of course.

Gary.

What would be the ftl on an 100" 1.1 or 1.3 gain screen using high lamp?

formula goes
lumens*gain / ((h" x w")/144)

Well I finally pulled the trigger and purchased the H77!!

I've got it temporarily set up on a shelving unit until I can mount it on my ceiling. I was so anxious I just projected it on my wall (which is a medium gray). Even on the wall the image looks great (although a bit dark and soft). I can't wait till I get a screen up (I held up the material and thought it looked pretty good).

Any suggestions on things I need to check in the first 4 hours of the bulb, so I could return it if something is off? I don't have AVIA but I do have DVE and a "Sound and Vision" calibration disc (which has several AVIA patterns on it). I'll probably run through the THX optimizer just as another reference point.

I've already seen the panning affect on another member's H77 in both Spiderman2 and LOTR: FOTR so I know what to expect there.

- Tim

Tim

What did you think of the panning effect. I gather you weren't really bothered by it since you bought one. Is it really noticable, or do you really have to look for it to see it.

I'm on the fence right now. I have a panasonic 300 and I want to upgrade. I was all set on the 77 until I heard of people bothered by the panning artifact. My feeling now is to hang on to the 300 for 6-12 months and hope the 79 will drop in price like the 77 just has. The prices on the 77 are so good right now that it is making it hard for me to wait and I'm worried the 79 may not come down in price if it turns out to be more popular.

gobrigavitch,

On the two movies I mentioned, the artifact did not bother me at all. I, like you, was worried about it after reading here. Since I knew what to look for I was able to see it in FOTR, but I don't think I would have found that one on my own (granted its not as pronounced as others). Now in Spiderman 2 it was pretty easy to see (again I knew where to look), but it was mostly in the background and didn't last that long. It wasn't enough to be distracting an "pull me out" of the movie. All in all, I felt the other advantages (great contrast, lens shift, etc) outweighed this one disadvantage.

I know Reveille from this site is of the same basic opinion. I went to his house to demo the H77 a week and a half ago and we actually rewound several times to make sure we both saw the artifact.

Once I get my screen up I plan to show some scenes to my wife to see if she can see the artifact (only I won't tell her where to look). That'll be an interesting test. She has better eye sight than I do, but she's not as analytical. I'll post back here with the results. =)

I'd say you're worse off than I was when I was on the fence. This is my first PJ so its not like I had one to "tide me over" for another 6 months. You know I didn't even think about the H79, for my own sanity. I don't think I could wait for the price to come down.

- Tim

Has anyone tried this PJ with an upconverting DVD player. I notice all sorts of artifacts using my RP82 on my calibarted RPTV. But with the new player all of these are gone. Could this or does this help with the panning or banding? I am ready to pull the trigger on the H77 but wonder how severe the problem is. While I can see all sorts of things when I try, I am prepared to accept these PJs are not going to be perfect. I have demoed alot of LCD and DLP models and if the benefits stated here are accurate, this is bang for the buck.

Thanx for your input Tim

Just as a side note. The greatly reduced prices and free bulbs are now being offered at Canadian dealers as well

Originally posted by jayray
Has anyone tried this PJ with an upconverting DVD player.

I just got my new H77 this week and have a 3-4 year old Sony DVP-NS700P which only outputs 480i/480P, and the picture is pretty good, and I have yet to see artifacts. I am wondering myself how much better a upconverting DVD player would look. I might consider one of the new Sony's coming out this summer.....I have my eye on their 400 disc changer which will upconvert and have HDMI out and retail for $400 according to this article:

http://www.audioholics.com/news/pressreleases/SonyHDMIDVDplayers.php

and more about it here:

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6451_7-5716807-2.html?tag=cats

Looks promissing. Also, Here's a pic of my new H77!

I have noticed during the NCAA tournament when the scores are on the top. The far left score looks very slightly out of focused compared to the scores in the center and on the right . Is there some adjust I need to make and has anyone else noticed this.

Originally posted by Reveille
I have noticed during the NCAA tournament when the scores are on the top. The far left score looks very slightly out of focused compared to the scores in the center and on the right . Is there some adjust I need to make and has anyone else noticed this.

Although most projectors will not have 100% focus across the whole screen, I have seen the problem you are describing with two h79's. Lower right hand corner of ceiling mounted (upper left if table mounted). One was much more severe than the other and most of the whole right (or left if table mounted) side was out of focus.

I have even seen one where the opposite corner (from the out of focus one), about 5 pixels in and 4 or 5 inches from the top was dis-colored and slightly mis-shapen.

This sort of thing is usually attributed to the lens and is one of the reasons why mush higher end projectors cost a lot with the extra money going into the lens system.

(And before Tom chimes in, I'm sure he had no idea what I'm talking about and had never seen such a thing in his Optoma projectors... or maybe he has seen in all projectors and this artifact (like the panning one) is not specific to the Optoma's. Take your pick. :) )

I think Thirdkind mentioned this on his H77 a while back. I've not noticed it on mine, but I don't doubt it's there - maybe it's lens shift related?

Gary.

Originally posted by Gary Lightfoot
I think Thirdkind mentioned this on his H77 a while back. I've not noticed it on mine, but I don't doubt it's there - maybe it's lens shift related?

Im sure it was lens shift related. The mounting required a 100% shift.

Originally posted by jayray
Has anyone tried this PJ with an upconverting DVD player. I notice all sorts of artifacts using my RP82 on my calibarted RPTV. But with the new player all of these are gone. Could this or does this help with the panning or banding? I am ready to pull the trigger on the H77 but wonder how severe the problem is. While I can see all sorts of things when I try, I am prepared to accept these PJs are not going to be perfect. I have demoed alot of LCD and DLP models and if the benefits stated here are accurate, this is bang for the buck.

The panning artifact is not related to DVD players. I have a Denon 2910 and it show the artifact. Also, others have noticed in on HD cable feeds, so it clearly has nothing to do with DVD as a source. To some extent I even notice it with my PS2 games, but as I have said before, it does not bother me much. I notice it, but overall, it is not a big problem for me.

Other opinions vary from "I can't see it" to "It drove me crazy and I sold it to get a different brand."

Ira

Thanks Ira,

I am going with the H77 given I got used to the slight rainbow very quickly and it's probably an artifact most noticeable to viewers.

Interesting about the lens shift as I do have a significant amount of lense shift on my projector. I mounted it flush with the ceiling instead of using an extension rod so a lot of shift was required to get picture off the ceiling. It would be interesting to see if it goes away when the lense shift is taken out. If so I might consider using an extension rod.

I jsut bought the H77 and noticed that there is next to nothing in the manual about setup and calibration of the PJ. I am sure someone has posted instructions on how to enter the service menu, tweaks and most popular settings, etc. This thread has become too big and several searches returned no useful info.

Can someone please point me towards this kind of helpful info on setting up the PJ?

Thanks.

Ravi

Start with
Picture settings Movie
Image setting Film
Color temp 1
gamma 2

Use your Avia or at least the THX optimizer to tune the brightness and contrast correctly.

Also look at the Optimizers gray steps or boxes in the brightness pattern, toggle the color temp to find the best grays with no bais colors.

If you see bias color in the grays use the how to intrux I put in the first post. All this will be as good as it gets without getting a full ISF tune-up.
good luck

Guys...I am going crazy over what is happening with my H77. I have had it now for 3-4 weeks and constantly after a few minutes into watching a movie, the TEMP indicator LIGHTS UP and shuts down the projector. I don't get ANY warning like "Over Temperature"....it just SHUTS down without any indication why.

My projector is table mounted and even has a small fan running on it's right side (the side opposite the power switch) to cool it down..is this the right place for a fan..should I be placing the fan on the opposite side where the power switch is? or does that even matter?

I am frustrated why this keeps happening.

The only thing I can think of is that I changed the CWI default of 25 on my projector to 29. Would this make any difference?

Please any help is greatly appreciated.

I would call the tech area, talk with them about it. Most likely they'll setup an RMA and because you're under one month you'll get a quick swap. Brand new projector.

You don't have it sitting on a cloth on the table do you? It sucks air in from underneath, and if that airway is blocked, it will cause the over-heating. A friends laptop over-heated because it had sucked up teh cloth it was sitting on and it had blocked the air intake. Try it without the external fan running just in case that's causing the exhaust air to recirculate.

Changing the CWI shouldn't have any effect other than to make the imge look better or worse, it can't have any detrimental effects on the machines operation.

What happens if you have the pj upside down and run it as if it were ceiling mounted? See if that makes a difference too. There's a filter on the bottom that can be taken out and cleaned. Have a look at that and see if it's blocked.

If all that fails, then as Tom says, call the Tech people.
Gary.

I do have a cloth on the table. But the projector is actually raised to the max by it's four adjustable feet. So it seems to me that there should be enough space to suck air. However, I am going to try what you suggested cause it's worth a try. I am going to turn it upside down and also take a look at the filter. If all this fails I'll just call the Tech people....I just want to try everything before I become projectorless :)

Thanks Gary and Tom for your advice.

Let us know how you get on..

Gary.

Has anyone used the 'Auto Shutdown' option in the System menu? I accidentaly left mine running the other day and wondered how well it worked, and what the time option was.

TIA

Gary.

I believe the auto shutdown turns the projector off if no picture is present for about 5 minutes. I do not think it will shut it off unless the source is turned off.

Thanks Reveille, I'll turn that option on and see how it goes.

Gary.

I want to thank Reveille for inviting me to his home to demo the H-77. It really throws a great picture and the "panning artifact" is a non issue as far as I'm concerned. We view many the the scenes when the artifact is manifested and I was not bothered by it in the least, most of the time it had to be pointed out to me. We watched some dvds clips, HD and even some Std def. THe dvd and HD were great and Std def is well, std Def. As a result, I pulled the trigger on one today from projector people. Can't beat the deal there. Thanks again Reveille

Yes, many thanks to Reveille for let me see it in action with Silver Star. Your HT room is awesome. Joe, you really want it :)
I can only choose either H77 or SS - well, my HT1000 + Panamorph U100 is produced pretty decent image so I might choose to upgrade the screen.
But I can afford a used H76 along with SS :)

Question: Do you think H76 is good upgrade from HT1000 ? Higher resolution but lower in contrast. Does H7x has variable IRIS ?

Thanks
Thuan

:(

I bought Opticone last week. I'm just starting to be comfortable with it. I can't seem to be able to calibrate my projector. If I play with green or red gain either in the service menu or in the projector menu I get a huge red shift. If I press re-sync it come back to were I started. No way to get the projector to keep my setting. The bars don't move.

For exemple let say I hve to much green to get 6500k with a 90IRE window. I move green contrast in the projector menu from 0 to -5. At one point my 90IRE window will move from almost perfect gray to reddish gray. I then re-sync and opticone in showing me that my projector has still to much green. I move it from -5 to -10. Same thing from-9 that is almost perfect to -10 it jump to way to red. I re-sync and I get exactly to the same reading that I had a the beginning. To much green. I change green to -10 to -15....etc....

I will wait for thirdkind comments on this. He is sending is H79 back for that exact same reason. When I have time I'm will try via component to see if I'm experiencing the same issue.

Bruno

Glad you guys could make it Monday night. Congradulations on your choice Joe I think you will be very happy with your decision. We will all have to get together here in Dallas some time this spring or summer.

Originally posted by JoeWanabe
I want to thank Reveille for inviting me to his home to demo the H-77. It really throws a great picture and the "panning artifact" is a non issue as far as I'm concerned. We view many the the scenes when the artifact is manifested and I was not bothered by it in the least, most of the time it had to be pointed out to me. We watched some dvds clips, HD and even some Std def. THe dvd and HD were great and Std def is well, std Def. As a result, I pulled the trigger on one today from projector people. Can't beat the deal there. Thanks again Reveille

Reality sets in, lol

You would think all video is a big smear the way the news of the year with the H77 is the 1chip dither. I can play all the offending panning scenes on my H30, H31, HT1000, H77 and they will play about the same. The only machine I have that plays them better is the H79. It comes down to a personal decision on whether you are bothered by the panning scenes and want to spend another $2500 to play them a little quicker.

Tom, I think you are correct. I don't think I could justify the extra $2500 for the H-79. What I didn't mention in my post was that I saw some blurriness when watching a TIVO of the NCAA tourney. So we re-looped the TIVO and went downstairs to look at the same clip on a plasma. Exact same picture, blurriness and all. Anyway, when my theater is finished I think I'll be watching movies, not looking for problems. Sorry if that doesn't make me a videophile.

Thuan, Good meeting you also. I don't think any H-7x has an adjustable iris, just the normal and bright modes. I know nothing about the 76 so I don't know if it worth the upgrade.

Reveille, a summer get together sounds good.

Questions about settings, connections, and HD with the H77.

1. What mode should I start with for calibrating my DVD player? I tried searching and it looks like many are using Cinema mode with a few tweaks. My cinema mode looks washed out with a DVD input, normal looked better but not sure how accurate.

2. For a given connection (Component for example), does the PJ have different settings for each resolution? For DVD (720x480), HD (1280x720), and HD (1920x1080) the contrast, bright, etc settings were all different (straight out of the box).

3. I am currently using component from my DISH 811 HD receiver. I was watching "Lost" and "Alias" tonight, and for most of Lost I had set the 811 to 720p output. The thing is, the blacks and dark greys all looked very blue. People looked very pasty in dim scenes. When I switched the receiver to 1080i the colors looked much beter. Dark and light scenes looked great while watching Alias this way. So what's up with 720p from the 811 to my H77? I would have thought feeding native would be the way to go, but the colors were all messed up (isn't ABC in 720p?). Anyone else with DISH have any input on this?

BTW, unlike DVD, Cinema mode seemed to look beter for HD than Normal once I changed the output to 1080i.

Let us know how you get on..

Gary.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Glad to report back that with my projector turned upside down on my table top and with one external fan running in really low power mode, my projector seems to be doing well. Thanks for the help Gary and Tom.

I am having another issue now. I recently purchased a Prismasonic H1000 lens to go with my H77 for a 2.35.1 constant height Carada Screen. The problem I am having is that when I place the lens in front of the projector lens, I can turn the knobs and get the image to stretch properly to 2.35.1 (with some distortion on the edges)....BUT what's worst is that the left and right sides of the image have a dark shadows coming from the light being blocked by the H1000 lens housing. No matter how I try to optimize the position, it seems that I can't get rid of the dark shadows on the left and right sides of the screen. I followed all the directions on the Prismasonic website and nothing works.

Has anyone had this problem before or if anyone owns the H1000...is there another area of the forum that knows what I need to do to fix this or tips in getting it to work right?

Thanks

" Has anyone had this problem before or if anyone owns the H1000...is there another area of the forum that knows what I need to do to fix this or tips in getting it to work right? " -

You might need to tilt the lens a bit. I had that happen, but was able to adjust it. Either that or your projector is too close to your screen.

Anamorphic lenses seem to work best with the projectors image zoomed as small as possible, so that means you will have to move the pj back until the image becomes big enough to fill the screen. You may find that you dont have to zoom it much smaller for it to work better, so you just have to find the best size image so you don't have to move it back so far.

I had similar findings with my HT1000 and Optimorph, and that's how I fixed the dark corners I had with it.

Gary.

Well I pulled the trigger on an H77. Set it up just with the THX optimizer for colour, contrast and brightness. Started without tweaking and picture looked excellent. The THX utility made a big difference. Blacks were better, shadow detail improved and colour saturation was perfect. Had a RPTV calibrated and thought that was outstanding, but for a picture at 106" diag, I was speechless.
Did the unthinkable and didn't look for any artifacts, just tested many well produced DVD's. HD to come tonight after mounting to the ceiling.
Thanks to Tom for his advice.

I was wondering if anyone with an H77 (or previous owners) can tell me if I would be better off with an (inexpensive --- <$350) upscaling DVD player or perhaps just a better 480P DVD player (such as a Denon 2900). Has anyone A/B'd a progressive 480P vs. an upscaling DVD player with this projector? What kind of difference could I expect to see? I guess this is kind of a how good is the scaler in the H77 question. Thanks!

-Jason

BTW....I am using a Sony 480P DVD player, and I think the picture looks good, but was wondering if it could get better with another DVD player....and how much better.

Originally posted by jasplat88
I was wondering if anyone with an H77 (or previous owners) can tell me if I would be better off with an (inexpensive --- <$350) upscaling DVD player or perhaps just a better 480P DVD player (such as a Denon 2900). Has anyone A/B'd a progressive 480P vs. an upscaling DVD player with this projector? What kind of difference could I expect to see? I guess this is kind of a how good is the scaler in the H77 question. Thanks!

-Jason

BTW....I am using a Sony 480P DVD player, and I think the picture looks good, but was wondering if it could get better with another DVD player....and how much better.

Not the "expert", but I'll take a shot. Unless you paid $$$$$ for your Sony, I would say the 480P from it is not that great. I've never seen Sony mentioned in the top echelon of progressive players. Tom reports the deinterlacer in the H77 is nice, so try feeding it 480i if you can. It may be better than what you have at the moment.

The scaler in the H77 is also top notch, so you may have to go a bit to beat it with an upscalling player. I bet the 2910 would be great, but that's a lot of money. The Panasonic S97 is reputed to be a nice scaling player without spending a lot of cash, or dealing with loader problems of the "chinese" brands. Also, be aware that you may have to use DVI to get "hd" resolutions.

Originally posted by chengka
Not the "expert", but I'll take a shot. Unless you paid $$$$$ for your Sony, I would say the 480P from it is not that great. I've never seen Sony mentioned in the top echelon of progressive players. Tom reports the deinterlacer in the H77 is nice, so try feeding it 480i if you can. It may be better than what you have at the moment.

The scaler in the H77 is also top notch, so you may have to go a bit to beat it with an upscalling player. I bet the 2910 would be great, but that's a lot of money. The Panasonic S97 is reputed to be a nice scaling player without spending a lot of cash, or dealing with loader problems of the "chinese" brands. Also, be aware that you may have to use DVI to get "hd" resolutions.

Thanks! I will test sending it 480i tonight, and see how that looks. It is by no means a high $ DVD player as I think I paid $200 for it 3-4 years ago. I imagine at the time and price point, the scaler on the H77 is probably much better...so perhaps I will see some improvement.

Going forward, I want to try to improve my picture as much as possible--while maintain the best bang for the buck. So that is where I was wondering how much a inexpensive (i.e. Bravo, S97, etc) would help over my current picture vs just purchasing a better 480P projector (denon 2900, etc.). Form the sound of it, it apears I will get the best possible picture with THIS projector from an upscaling DVD player...is that correct? If so, then is there any benefit in spending $1K+ vs the $250+ inexpensive upscaling DVD players mentioned above.

Thanks for the response. I'll let you know this weekend if I notice a difference between the 480P I am feeding it now and the 480i I will try.

-Jason

quote:

____________________________________________________________ __________
Originally posted by Gary Lightfoot

Anamorphic lenses seem to work best with the projectors image zoomed as small as possible, so that means you will have to move the pj back until the image becomes big enough to fill the screen. You may find that you don't have to zoom it much smaller for it to work better, so you just have to find the best size image so you don't have to move it back so far.
____________________________________________________________ __________


I will try that. I can't move my projector too far back...but I will fiddle with it some more.
Especially now that I know it is fixable and I just need to be more patient.

If anyone has any other advice on using the H1000 lens (cleaning, getting it to work well with the H77) I would be really grateful for any relevant links on this board

Thanks guys!

Well, my H-77arrived today. Have to give kudos to UPS, I was out when they came and they needed a signature. I called UPS and the driver returned later with the H-77, box wasn't even smashed :)

Quick question, I went through the owners manual and there is no mention of throw distance. What would be the recommended throw distance for a 110 diag. 1.4 gain screen? I went to projector central and they come up with 17.2' . My room is just 17 feet long, so the furthest away I can place the pj is about 16' to 16 1/2'. I would want the zoom in a "neutral" position Will this work? TIA.

Never mind, I went to the Optoma site and found the answer, 12.8 - 17.3

Yeah you're good. I'm at 14' back to a 106"diag. Can zoom down or out more also. Lets see how you like the machine?

Originally posted by jayray
Well I pulled the trigger on an H77. Set it up just with the THX optimizer for colour, contrast and brightness. Started without tweaking and picture looked excellent. The THX utility made a big difference. Blacks were better, shadow detail improved and colour saturation was perfect. Had a RPTV calibrated and thought that was outstanding, but for a picture at 106" diag, I was speechless.
Did the unthinkable and didn't look for any artifacts, just tested many well produced DVD's. HD to come tonight after mounting to the ceiling.
Thanks to Tom for his advice.

Sounds good, pretty handy having the free optimizer on DVD's to start out with. Just wait till you see some HDTV. You can use your eye for HDTV, most likely just lowering the brightness and color saturation a little.

Re the upscaling players. Using the DVI feed is cleaner and you can match the resolution to 720p also. What you get is less video noise, it's worth it just for that. The Bravo D2 is good but you'll need a shorter DVI cable than I have or a higher end one. I can't get signal on the 30' cable I hv with the Bravo. I can with a Toshiba SD5709.

I have a Denon 1600 hooked up also and do prefer the DVI route for the cleaner image. The Pany s97 sounds like a good machine.

Tom,

I use the LG unit that upconverts to 720p or 1080i. I set mine to 1080i but wondered if the H77 sets it to 720p as it upscales?
Also I tried to use the lens shift but found it moved the image very little. I stopped rotating the lens shift wheel when I got a fair bit of resistance and wasn't sure if I was forcing anything. Any thoughts on this?
The image when using the LG is amazing but I am still looking forward to having it calibrated. The fellow that did my last calibration has an 8700+ with the LG dvd player and his tests showed that the component picture was slightly better than the DVI. I trust his opinion and understand that implementation of a technology has alot to do with how it works and clearly LG did a better job of the component end than the DVI.

Euphoria spirals down to the dumps. I waited for my wife to come home to fire-up the new pj in our still framed up theater. Put up a white sheet, hooked up the component cables to from my dvd and the audio cables from my cheep receiver (two channel) I have laying around. Ready for the excitement to begin I hit the power button the the H-77. Nothing, Nada, zip, zippo. Check all connections, and retry, still nothing. Plug in to different outlet, still nothing.

I was going to try to rest the lamp but when I try to take the cover off, unscrewing the top right rear screw, the cover is still "stuck". I can lift off the corner where the screw was but the rest is still clamped down tight. The cover starts to bend. Am I missing something? I don't want to break the plastic housing cover especially if the unit is DOA and needs to be replaced. Any ideas will be appreciated. I didn't Nat to wait until Monday to get an RMA, but I may have to. Not a very auspicious start to my theater!:(

Originally posted by chengka
Not the "expert", but I'll take a shot. Unless you paid $$$$$ for your Sony, I would say the 480P from it is not that great. I've never seen Sony mentioned in the top echelon of progressive players. Tom reports the deinterlacer in the H77 is nice, so try feeding it 480i if you can. It may be better than what you have at the moment.

Ok, I just wanted to report back on this. I did change the output on my Sony DVP-NS700P from 480P to 480i, and all I can say is...well the picture was HORRIBLE. Actually, perhaps the picture wasn't as bad as I am making it sound, because I was unable to get past the HORRIBLE color. I guess I would have to re-calibrate my H77 when switching from 480P to 480i? Does that make sense? If not, all I can say is my Sony does one HELL of a lot better than the H77. Anyone else notice this when changing from 480P to 480i?

Jason

Originally posted by JoeWanabe
Ready for the excitement to begin I hit the power button the the H-77. Nothing, Nada, zip, zippo. Check all connections, and retry, still nothing. Plug in to different outlet, still nothing.


Just curious...after flipping the power switch (on mine the "|" should be pressed in and the "O" will be out)....are you trying to power on using the remote? Mine was shipped with the switch in the ON position, and after I figured that out....and used the remote to power it on....it came right to life. Just a thought.

-Jason

Thanks Jason. yes 0 is off and 1 is on. I am directly using the power button, not the remote. I only wish it were that simple.

Just to check everything - there's a little toggle button right next to the plug? Then the push button near the plug. The bulb lid slides outward first.

edit,
ok you know about the buttons :) How about another computer power cord.

Jason, I must appoligize. I reread you post and noticed you said to trun on the power and the hit the power on the remote. I tried ti and it worked! Thanks.

I'm still concerned about how to take the cover off to replace the lamp. Gitarman, any ideas?

edit,
Guitarman, I didn't see your post, THanks.

:"Euphoria spirals down to the dumps"

Euphoria returns!

Originally posted by JoeWanabe
Jason, I must appoligize. I reread you post and noticed you said to trun on the power and the hit the power on the remote. I tried ti and it worked! Thanks.


No appoligizes necessary--I also thought it was a little strange how mine came....I'm just glad you got it working. Another "duh" thing that I did was forget to take the lens cap off....it's amazing how good the picture still looked through it. Anyways...enjoy your new projector!

-Jason

JoeWannabe: Been there. The way to get the cover off is: remove the screw per the manual, then the whole top place slides about 1/16-1/8" to the right (facing rear of PJ). A tug and gentle tap or two ought to do it. THEN it will lift right off. I like to have never got it loose, only the corner until I finally figured out it took the bump to the right to unhook it. HTH, Scott

Heehee. I wonder how many folks have trouble with the power button (I did too way back when). And the len cap (should be opaque). Funny story is that I tried a 300E and when it was on wifey and I said "boy that's dark (dim):... I said, no prob I've been here before (with my H77), I'll remove the lens cap. Only the 300E didn't have one :( <smile>....enjoy the light.

Gray, I was aware of the lense cap because of this thread so I didn't make that mistake! Just might have thought if I didn't read about it first. Thanks for the tip on the lamp cover. I"ll give it a try when I get home today.

Originally posted by JoeWanabe
Gray, I was aware of the lense cap because of this thread so I didn't make that mistake! Just might have thought if I didn't read about it first. Thanks for the tip on the lamp cover. I"ll give it a try when I get home today.

I'm curious to what exactly was being missed on the power up? Because turning the little toggle switch on should allow you to hit the little oblong start button directly on the PJ to fire it up (no remote needed). The oblong blue light thing that everybody hates.

Hows the picture looking? colorful/blacks/brightness/contrast

Originally posted by guitarman
I'm curious to what exactly was being missed on the power up? Because turning the little toggle switch on should allow you to hit the little oblong start button directly on the PJ to fire it up (no remote needed). The oblong blue light thing that everybody hates.

Hows the picture looking? colorful/blacks/brightness/contrast

Tom,
I didn't realize that the little blue light was also a button! So without knowing that (and it doesn't say anything about it in the manual) I used the power button on the remote to fire it up.

The picture looked great for the very little time I tested it. Hard to tell exactly with a sheet that was wrinkled and not a uniform thickness, doubled on one side but not the other. The pj is safely back in it's box waiting the completion of the theater in about June or July. I just wanted to fire it up to make sure it wasn't DOA and test the extra lamp that came with it.

First, excuse me for my poor english :(
I'm going to buy (when arrive to Spain) Optoma H78. I'm very worried about "banding effect".
With the new firmware of h77 this effect it disappears?
Thanks a lot.

Joe, wow June or July. Maybe you could pick up a Dalite Theater view pull up screen at least to make use of some of your first bulbs warranty time. Then after you could dump it. Or setup an outside theater party for the kids.


Yadiel, the contour problem is long gone, plus the H78 should be one step better.

Since the firmware upgrade, I haven't seen any issues on my H77 at all. It's going in for the H78 upgrade on the 8th of April, so I'll hopefully be able to comment on the mod within a couple of weeks after that.

Gary.

Looking for insights from H77 veterans.

Any H77 owners out there using DISH Network? I have the Dish 811 HD receiver and I'm having problems getting a decent picture using the 720p (component) output setting. I wanted to use 720p to match the PJ native resolution, but when I do, the colors look out of wack. Mostly, the blacks look very blueish. I think there may be a blue push in general as many dimly lit scenes have unnatural colors.

Anyone else noticed this? And/or any ideas on what to do/try? Could there be something wrong with my PJ?

When I set the receiver to 1080i the image looks great and colors look natural (no blue push). So I copied all of the image settings for 1080i to 720p, but didn't really help much.

Would I be better off just leaving it in 1080i anyway? I thought more programming is broadcast in that format and that way I'm using the scalar in the PJ instead of the scalar in the 811.

Thanks in advance.

- Tim

Tim: check your cables, sounds like a loose cable When ive seen that happen the red cable was not making a good connection

I checked the cables already, but I'll check again to be sure. I wanted to check to make sure that I didn't have them out of order or not firmly connected. But the same cables work fine at 1080i just 720p is bad.

I even ran the same cables to my DVD player and that looked fine too.

I also tried to output 480p from the receiver and I noticed the problem there too I think. That's interesting because both progressive inputs have the problem where neither HD@1080i nor DVD@480i (I have an old DVD player) look fine color wise.

- Tim

After changing my HD box to output 720p, I got greenish hue on HD. Couldn't figure it out but if others are having this problem I will disable 720p and check out the difference.

I've answered my own question. The Digital box from Rogers, here in Toronto, was set to 720p and everything had a greenish hue. Changed it back to 1080i and green is gone and picture looks great.

OK, so what's the deal? If all of these discrete codes (in the rs232 power buy) are available for the H77/ H79, why can't we get them form Optoma? Tom (Guitarman) you were working with a guy from Optoma trying to get these discretes, any chance of this ever happening. I'm not trying to put a crimp in Allan's power buy but I can't see spending $150 for discrete codes if they are somehow available.

> why can't we get from Optoma?

They are simply not in the firmware for IR, they can't give them without changing the firmware. And if they did release a FW with the discretes, we'll have to get our FW changed to take advantage of it. And a Firmware change will require a trip to Optoma.

I was the person who made the Pronto and HTM remote control files Optoma has on their website now. When I was making those files, I tested every single unused IR code in the box, I did find a few extra commands but nothing significant or particularly usefull (i.e. a button to toggle through the different inputs, DVI, Composite, etc). Details buried back somewhere in this thread. Wing (product manager) was looking into adding them to the firmware, but they have not as yet. I'd rather see them do some of the other stuff in the Wish list thread now that there's a workaround for the needed discretes.

On the other hand the discrete comands *are* in the firmware for the RS232 interface. I was wanting the discretes bad, so now I have the AV-RS232, it is sweet. Not only does it have the discretes I wanted (power on, off and aspects), it has direct access to a list of the sliders (i.e. RGB brightness and contrast). If that wasn't nice enough, it is more responsive than the stock remote. No delays when exiting menus, etc. Liking it very much. I agree it would be nice to have them all in the IR interface (if it was faster) but vs. that trip to Optoma, I'm pleased with the workaround...

Cheers,
Scott

We now know that Optoma can fix the infamous panning artefact on the H77. At a small cost. How can we make pressure on them to offer the upgrade to H78 to us? Any Idea? Guitarman please get on the phone. :)

I read the post on the H78. If I could do that upgrade on an H77. I would buy one from Projector People. Guitarman you have to check into that for us.

What is the fix for the panning artifacts? Is it a specific firmware udgrade?

When this news first came out I asked here and they said the update is for the PAL signal only and the felt the H77 was optimized already for the NTSC signal. Plus it may be a separate company over there is doing the firmware, therefore the charge.

It's both firmware and hardware according to the Optoma guys I spoke with today. Half of the cost is carriage to and from the upgrade, the rest is for the hardware.

There's a change to the lamp electronics as well as DMD control from TI which is improved sequence codes - not sure if it entails a new controller chip or not but that's how it achieves the extra brightness and contrast. I don;t think firmware alone could do that.

The improvements mentioned are indeed for PAL and European HiDef, though with the panning artefact now removed, I'm surprised Optoma USA doesn't look into fixing it as well. I use HTPC, and that isn't PAL or NTSC driven, so the PAL improvments weren't being assessed specificaly today. I would think an HTPC either here or in the US would work in the same way, as would an HDMI or DVI input.

Gary

Could be it's only good for the Euro refresh rate. Is that 48hz?

It's 50hz for PAL Tom, but you might be right. I think they mentioned better color too:

The new ThemeSceneT H78 delivers substantial image quality enhancement over its predecessor, the award-winning H77. Newly developed technology by both ThemeScene and Texas Instruments enables the H78 to offer stunning picture quality:

Colour accuracy has been enhanced on a wider range of signal types

PAL and 50Hz High Definition (European High Definition) image quality has
been further optimised

Grey scale linearity has been improved, especially in the important low
light, dark areas of images.

Faster Pixel response times have yielded improvement in both Brightness
and Contrast Ratios

These improvements combine to produce an image of unrivalled colour
balance, accuracy and motion fluidity resulting in exceptionally natural and
cohesive images.

My HTPC works at 1280 x 720 @ 60hz, so if it's frequency related, then the panning is fixed for 60hz too.

Gary.

Originally posted by guitarman
Could be it's only good for the Euro refresh rate. Is that 48hz?

48hz, 72hz is for film in America that are 24fps. 60hz is for video that plays here at 30fps. 3:2 pull down is just a way to get 24fps to play smooth at 60hz.

50hz ,75hz and 100hz would be for Pal material that plays at 25fps.

If you play the clip I show you at 48hz or 60hz without any panning artifact it means it's cure for NTSC machine as well.

I think Optoma doesn't want to offer it here because it will make the H79 machine less appealing.

I will be really mad if the don't offer the same upgrade in the USA. I spoke with a tech in Canada about this and he didn't know anything. He wants me to write him a letter explaining all of this. I will do that on Monday.

Tom you are the best guy to put some pressure on Optoma. Your review of their projectors means a lot of sales.

If Optoma UK is willing to upgrade my machine I wouldn't wait for Optoma USA to make a decision. It would be in the first plane going there. It would be a lot easier if I could do it in the USA. Just hope Optoma won't let down their customers that find the panning issue a problem.

If Optoma does the upgrade I will think of them at the best projector company in the world.:D

Bruno

Bruno...........

I am betting you are on the right track!!

Optoma will not do anything until the H77's are completely sold out as they do not want a "fixed" H77 stealing sales from the H79.

If they are willing to do anything ever.....

I was contemplating buying the H77 sight unseen a month or two ago until I read more about the panning issue. I doubt it would bother me, but I'm just not ready to take that chance. If I knew there was a reasonable fix for the problem, I'd probably order one tomorrow. I sure hope they offer this to all H77 owners, as I'd add myself to that group.

I' m with ya Bruno. I sent a piece of this thread yesterday to the Optoma tech who told me the H78 upgrades were just for PAL (thanks for the feedback Gary), asking once again if this could me done to my PJ that's on it's way to them. I also asked if they could send mine to the UK to get done if they didn't want to do it (wishful thinking). Normally he gets back with me within a few hours. Have not heard anything yet. Maybe they're chewing on it.

I must add, everyone I've contacted at Optoma USA has been good to deal with. The tech support response is very good.

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
Bruno...........

I am betting you are on the right track!!

Optoma will not do anything until the H77's are completely sold out as they do not want a "fixed" H77 stealing sales from the H79.

If they are willing to do anything ever.....

According to a dealer price sheet I recieved 3-21 the 77 is already sold out .

Well then.............

Now understand I am not currently an H77 Owner... I have been considering buying one, but the panning "issue" has kept me on the sidelines....

I have spent MANY hours reading on this subject and understand that this is an "issue" of varying importance and concern. Tom (very experienced) does not see it as much of an issue... where others (some experienced.. some not) see it as a complete deal breaker. Now if you owned a car that occasionally sputtered while driving down the highway... and the manufacturer said... well it only sputters occasionally so it's not that big of a deal... folks would probably be fairly upset. However, like I mentioned this is an issue of varying intensity depending on who you are talking to.

That all being said... I am thrilled to hear that the H78 upgrade being offered in Europe has had a completely unintended side effect.. of fixing the panning "issue" as well. I realize that Optoma was supposedly only fixing known PAL issues..., but ain't it great that it also seems to have done away with a problem that was bothering the NTSC crowd!!! Hooray!!

As Optoma is no longer selling H77's, fixing the "problem" on the H77 even if it was only intended to be for a PAL problem would no longer seem to be a "sales" issue for Optoma.... rather it should be in the realm of living up to what I have read is "excellent" customer service by Optoma. Now some might think that this should be covered by Optoma as a manufacturing defect...... however, I doubt that many of the folks here hanging out at AVS would have any problem paying $150 for the shipping and necessary time and materials to make this "issue" completely go away.

My suggestion is that rather than hoping Tom's relationship with Wing will make this happen..... is that every owner with an H77 (that is concerned with the panning issue) should take the time and effort to contact Tech Support AND Customer Service at Optoma requesting (in the most polite terms) that they be allowed to send their H77's in for this H78 upgrade.

Just my opinion of course................

You do know that the majority of 1chip DLP projectors will fail on the panning shots described. Maybe I could send Optoma my HT1000 it fails worse than the H77. ;)

The 1chip dither motion effect has been around since the invention of the DLP chip. When I posted a thread on the subject just about every named model would show it, except maybe the Sharp Z12000 and now the H79 and H78.

Whats good from what I read about the H78 is it seems Ti has come up with a timing trick to help with the effect. We could hope it could be added to all future models for any company. Unless what they came up with will just work for the H77.

Hi Tom,

I've replied to the H78 thread, but just to let you know that my HT1000 played all the test scenes perfectly with no hint of a panning issue, whereas the H77 failed the same scenes miserably. The H78 I saw was greatly improved though.

I still think the HT1000 is a superb machine that is being loverooked by those wanting a good value projector. I don't think you can buy better than a second hand HT1000 with some warranty remaining.

Gary.

I looked at the FOTR clips, the dwarfs/rings and the sure fire one, the Journey in the Darkness. Are you saying the journey in the darkness scene is played with no ripples/wave in faces for that scene? If so it must be the 50Hz signal. It was pretty obvious for that scene on my HT1000. But I still wouldn't sell it, I got it too cheap. Plus It's still the smoothest noise free DVD image in town.

I'm using HTPC via DVI - all at 60hz mostly from NTSC disks, except the Spidey 2 bike scene which was via component (NTSC Superbit). I've never seen any panning issues on my HT1000, but I have seen two minor instances which were similar to clay face which I've not seen elsewhere in over two years.

Maybe having an fl-day filter and higher green and blue contrast allows more headroom from the DMD. That's the only difference I can think of between your nachine and mine other than the HTPC.

Got to agree with you on the noise free image - fantasticly clean and smooth. :)

Gary.

My H76 does not have any issues with panning, thankfully. It does not have a functioning DVI input which makes it somewhat useless. Unfortunately, Optoma's tech support is pretty bad. They do not return emails or calls very often. They also seem to blame everything other than their projectors.

For example, I've tried three DVD players with HDMI or DVI, and one cable box via DVI. I've used a total of six different cables and a few adapters. Nothing is picked up throught the DVI input. What does Optoma say? "Call the tech support of the source units or try other cables". Now that is service!! I don't think I'd even send it in for repair because it will likely come back unchanged. :mad:

It looks excellent via component 480P (compared to previous HS51, AE700). Everything works and looks fine other than their sync issues. However, when HD-DVD and Blue Ray arrive, it will be as useful as a three legged Mustang.

Gary...........

Have you ever compared an HT1100 to your 1K?

Alright, I got a deal on an H77 that I can't pass up, clay face and all, so let's hope that H78 upgrade comes quickly (Optoma could call it the H77A upgrade like they did with the H56...).

Later,
Bill

Ok, under the guise that there is no such thing as a stupid question (only stupid posters), I hope you guys can help this PJ newbie out with this question-

I became "aware" of the H77 after contacted a forum linked dealer selling these at the top of my range of affordability. Over the last two days I've read every page of this and the H79 threads. Whew... Anyway, to my question- There are no dealers anywhere near me to demo this or competing units so I will have to purchase, as some of you have, "unseen". After reading all of these posts, it seems like a prevailing reason for satisfaction about the purchase of the H77 is the "unbelievable" deal for which they now sell.

Can anyone who has experience with an H77 compare its PQ in component and dvi sourced DVD and Comcast HDTV to, say one of the latest generation LCD's with a MSP less than half of the 77, preferably one like the Sanyo z3 that has minimal SDE and VB? Is there a GIANT quality difference here that bears any relationship to the price difference?

I am setting up in a basement that is completely dark if I wish, and anticipate a PJ mount approximately 11 feet from my screen.

I imagine a 50/50 split between DVD and HD viewing- essentially ZERO SD, if that makes a difference.

Sorry for the sophmoric nature of this question, but after reading of some of these issues about the 77 (and not having convenient access to a dealer where I can see for myself) I wonder if I may be better served with an LCD solution for half the price to tide me over until 1080p is affordable.

Any and all commentary very welcome!
GTD

I started out with LCD. Sony HS10 then HS20. I have seen most of the premium LCD's (Yamaha lpx510 , Sanyo Z1,2,3, Panny 300,500,700). I did not consider DLP's due to fear of rainbows.

The H77 is my first DLP. THERE IS NO COMPARISON IMO. I cannot go back to LCD. I am NOT bothered by any DLP artifacts. Alas, you must decide for yourself, but at the price these things are going for now I'd say it's the best price/performance bargain available that will tide you till affordable 1080P.

If you're ever up in Central FL. your welcome to come see for yourself!

Good Luck :cool:

Originally posted by grovertdog
Can anyone who has experience with an H77 compare its PQ in component and dvi sourced DVD and Comcast HDTV to, say one of the latest generation LCD's with a MSP less than half of the 77, preferably one like the Sanyo z3 that has minimal SDE and VB? Is there a GIANT quality difference here that bears any relationship to the price difference?

I'll be upgrading from an Epson 500, so I think I might qualify on that score. Mine will be here late in the week, so I'll let you know then. That being said, My E500 is up on the marketplace... ;)

Later,
Bill

I may take you up on that! ;) How far are you from i-75?

Also, would you mind elaborating on the "no comparison"? I'd be interested to hear the aspects of DLP that you feel are clearly superior to LCD's at the same resolution.

Thanks!

gtd

I have very recently spent time comparing the Panasonic AE700, Sony HS51, and Optoma H76. The H76 is brighter and more film like than both. It is more three dimensional also. There is no screen door. The H76 is viewable from a much closer distance. The HS51 has very distracting screen door but is somewhat comparable to the H76. The AE700 is softer and does not have the same contrast as the other two. I also could not see going back to LCD. For comparable price to the HS51 I'd go with the lower cost HD2+ units.

Originally posted by Ursa
I'll be upgrading from an Epson 500, so I think I might qualify on that score. Mine will be here late in the week, so I'll let you know then. That being said, My E500 is up on the marketplace... ;)

Later,
Bill

Look forward to hearing what you think, Bill. Did you get a chance to seriously audition the 77 prior to comitting? I was certainly hot and heavy and darn near ready to risk it until I got about half way through this thread (the part when the discussion goes from PAL issues to panning problems) and my head started reeling...

gtd

Originally posted by RobZ
I have very recently spent time comparing the Panasonic AE700, Sony HS51, and Optoma H76. The H76 is brighter and more film like than both. It is more three dimensional also. There is no screen door. The H76 is viewable from a much closer distance. ...

That could be a LCD dealbreaker for me- I can envision the possibility of being closer than 1.5x the screen diagonal if I had company. Also, do you think the brightness is as big a deal for a light controlled dungeon, errr, room?

Thanks!
gtd

My theater room is 100% light controlled. The screen is 110". The lumens count in my opinion. The AE700 can get good blacks but will sacfafice the light output (using filter). The HS51 has very good light output without sacraficing the blacks (iris). At 1.5x distance I saw major screen door. At 1.5 from the Optoma it is very watchable. It is going to be interesting when the Benq 7700 and Toshiba 700 start dropping their street costs. It'll be HD2+ for $2500 or so. That is a bargain. When the prices on 1080P settle, there will be little money lost. The H77 is barely above that when you factor out the price of the free lamp ($400 or so?). I can't wait until the H79 drops in price. Hopefully it's within the next year. I can sneak it into my theater room and my wife would never know the difference.

Originally posted by grovertdog
Look forward to hearing what you think, Bill. Did you get a chance to seriously audition the 77 prior to comitting? I was certainly hot and heavy and darn near ready to risk it until I got about half way through this thread (the part when the discussion goes from PAL issues to panning problems) and my head started reeling...

gtd

GTD - I have not seen the H77, but I have owned an H30 previously, so I am familiar with "the Optoma look". Also, I have auditioned several HD2 generation machines (Sharp, Yamaha, etc.) and liked the look (I owned a Sharp Z10K very briefly until the noise was too much to deal with). The Epson is on par or a bit behind the best of the HD2 generation, with its only major issues being SDE and FPN (no VB in my epxerience). So, yes, I am buying "blind" with the projector, but I do not believe I will be disappointed.

If you want my impressions of the HS51 vs the Epson (biased, of course), then we can take that off-line.

Later,
Bill

Bill you have pm...

Originally posted by guitarman
You do know that the majority of 1chip DLP projectors will fail on the panning shots described. Maybe I could send Optoma my HT1000 it fails worse than the H77. ;)

The 1chip dither motion effect has been around since the invention of the DLP chip. When I posted a thread on the subject just about every named model would show it, except maybe the Sharp Z12000 and now the H79 and H78.

Whats good from what I read about the H78 is it seems Ti has come up with a timing trick to help with the effect. We could hope it could be added to all future models for any company. Unless what they came up with will just work for the H77.

The H77 is far worst than anything have seen regarding panning. I've seen a bunch of DLP and never was bothered by that kind of artifact. It drive me nuts that you just don't want to acknowledge that the H77 as a more serious problem. Maybe you didn't watch movies were it's more evident. It seem worst on animations and Asian films.

I think the H77 was not built to handle it's 8 segments colorwheel. Now with the upgrade to the H78 we know it can be fix. It would really upset to know I have a great machine that can be fix but nobody want's to bother.

Bruno

Originally posted by RobZ
Hopefully it's within the next year. I can sneak it into my theater room and my wife would never know the difference.

I had the very same thought!

I'm sure this has been mentioned in the H77 or H79 thread but I can't seem to find info through searching. What is the difference betwen Native and Full in the service menu? When running a 480P signal via component (not using DVI), what is the proper one to use to allow scaling by the projector? Also, would I choose 16x9 or Native in the Display menu?

Originally posted by RobZ
I'm sure this has been mentioned in the H77 or H79 thread but I can't seem to find info through searching. What is the difference betwen Native and Full in the service menu? When running a 480P signal via component (not using DVI), what is the proper one to use to allow scaling by the projector? Also, would I choose 16x9 or Native in the Display menu? Native: 1:1 what you see is what you send.
Window: squeezes 16:9 material to 4:3 (adds pillarbox side bars)
16:9: I believe with non upscaled material it will stretch 4:3 input to 16:9. I'm feeding mine with 720p so I dont' get much effect from this one, I get a hair of overscan with it.
Letterbox: stretches the image vertically. For use with non-anamorphic encoded discs with 16x9 material, I think. OR, for use with anamorphic lens and 2.35 material where it will vertically stretch the 2.35 material to full panel height. This is my intended use for it.

Bruno, naah! I had the H77 for a while when I think it was member Dandaroy who after having the H77 for month just started seeing what he called a panning effect. Charlies Angels scene where Drew gets blown out of a window, he said. Theres fast and slow camera panning around the actors and room. So I took a close look at the scene.

Couldn't see a thing odd and everything looked normal. I was thinking is he thinking as a camera pans across a wall real fast and it shows a blur, is this his problem. I'm not a camera expert but common sense told me this is normal, a streak real fast will cause a blur.

Next came the FOTR Journey in the Darkness and the U571 Motocycle guy blur scene. I looked at these but first the FOTR scene played (ripply) on my tube crt so I discounted that one. The motor cyle guy, yeah he was a little blurry, but it's a quick pan shot so I figure the camera picks it up blurry.

After a while I gave up on scrutinizing scenes, I watch the movie.

Originally posted by guitarman
Bruno, naah! I had the H77 for a while when I think it was member Dandaroy who after having the H77 for month just started seeing what he called a panning effect. Charlies Angels scene where Drew gets blown out of a window, he said. Theres fast and slow camera panning around the actors and room. So I took a close look at the scene.

Couldn't see a thing odd and everything looked normal. I was thinking is he thinking as a camera pans across a wall real fast and it shows a blur, is this his problem. I'm not a camera expert but common sense told me this is normal, a streak real fast will cause a blur.

Next came the FOTR Journey in the Darkness and the U571 Motocycle guy blur scene. I looked at these but first the FOTR scene played (ripply) on my tube crt so I discounted that one. The motor cyle guy, yeah he was a little blurry, but it's a quick pan shot so I figure the camera picks it up blurry.

After a while I gave up on scrutinizing scenes, I watch the movie.

I can sent you the same test scene I send Gary. Try it on the H77 and your Nec. It a 38meg vob file I rip from one of my DVD's. You would need to burn it on a DVD to watch it I guess. Not sure if you are equipe to do this.

I can't imagine the HT1000 playint it as bad. I'm may sound picky but I'm not. I still use my H77 and love what I see on most film. I rarely spot anything. But some movies are really bad and I don't enjoy them as much with the H77 because of that defect. I would gladly pay 500us to get it fix.

Bruno

I thought I saw a glimpse of contouring in a TV commerial yesterday with the H79. I guess you can be happy your H77 doesn't hv the nasty contouring problem early PAL machines had.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/palcontour.jpg

When Wing gets back from Taiwan I'll ask him to see about anything involed with the 78's internals that will help or could be added to the H77. I'll do my best. Not sure if everyone will want the send their PJ's in, but just in case lets see if we can get the option.

Originally posted by guitarman
I thought I saw a glimpse of contouring in a TV commerial yesterday with the H79. I guess you can be happy your H77 doesn't hv the nasty contouring problem early PAL machines had.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77contour.jpg

When Wing gets back from Taiwan I'll ask him to see about anything involed with the 78's internals that will help or could be added to the H77. I'll do my best. Not sure if everyone will want the send their PJ's in, but just in case lets see if we can get the option.

I thought it was fix via firmware already.

Thanks for any help you can give us. I don't think that many people would bother sending it just for that fix. But it nice to know that if you experience it and don't like what you see you can fix it.

You're link doesn't work for me by the way.

Bruno

Fixed the link, nasty stuff, bet PAL users are glad that's all over with.

Bruno...........

If you read over in the H78 thread they say it is a combination of firmware, hardware, and shipping costs that make up the change/charge for the H78.

Gary Lightfoot over there seems to be the expert on this....

From what I have read they intended the fixes for the PAL machines only.., but just by a great stroke of luck it appears to have solved an "issue" on the NTSC machines also.

My daddy always told me "if you have your choice of being good or being lucky, take lucky every time!"

Originally posted by guitarman
I thought I saw a glimpse of contouring in a TV commerial yesterday with the H79. I guess you can be happy your H77 doesn't hv the nasty contouring problem early PAL machines had.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/palcontour.jpg

When Wing gets back from Taiwan I'll ask him to see about anything involed with the 78's internals that will help or could be added to the H77. I'll do my best. Not sure if everyone will want the send their PJ's in, but just in case lets see if we can get the option.

This was from an H79?

On an unrelated note, My H77 gets here on Friday. So, aside from Ch. 34 in FOTR, what are the other torture tests for the H77? I have a few I like to do with deinterlacing, but testing the panning of the H77 seems more important.

Later,
Bil

Yes H79, but it was the particular source or video feed. You could try U571 special opps scene /the motorcycle guy/ FOTR opeing /dwarfs get their rings/ Spider man two /misses the theater show by his girl friend - drags his motorcycle pass poster boards.

These would look blurry, what they're looking for is jerky. :)

Anyone aware of what filter size fits on the Optoma H77/H79? Seems that there is some threading on the lens. Anyone tried a specific size or use a specific method to fit one?

Not to dredge up too many bad memories, but several of the pictures in the thread (took me a few days, but I have finally "caught up") look like my old DT200 did when I was chewing through DVI cables. Even though the DT200 was only SVGA, I ultimately needed a high-end dual-link cable to get a good image over the 15m run. Did anyone ever isolate their issue with the H77 to being partially the result of a bad cable or bad DVI implementation in their signal chain?


Later,
Bill

Dual link wouldn't (shouldn't) help unless the DVI chip at both ends supports dual link. Otherwise the extra wires arent' used IIRC. I don't believe the H7x's support dual link. But I agree a high quality cable is necessary. We tested several 10m/30ft cables early on and all of them didn't work. The ones that failed produced sparklies, but no other degradation as far as I know. I ended up using one sold by Vinc since at the time I had a Bravo D2 and I still have it today, works fine so far.

Originally posted by GetGray
Dual link wouldn't (shouldn't) help unless the DVI chip at both ends supports dual link. Otherwise the extra wires arent' used IIRC.

My guess is that dual link cables are built to a higher standard than single link all-around, and this is why it worked for me when the single link cables weren't (I went through a bunch). As to electrical performance beyond just better build quality, there might be some minor shielding effect from the extra wire, but I doubt this is significant. So, yes, I agree that the extra wires themselves aren't used, but that doesn't mean that a dual link cable doesn't bear investigating for those with image problems and longer runs.

Later,
Bill

Bill,

Just in case there's some confusion (probably me), the pic Tom posted in post 2404 is from an early firmware H77, not an H79. :)

Gary.

Originally posted by Gary Lightfoot
Bill,

Just in case there's some confusion (probably me), the pic Tom posted in post 2404 is from an early firmware H77, not an H79. :)

Gary.

Gary - Thanks! That picture has been posted about 60 times, it seems, in this thread, and I can't figure out why people [Tom] repost it, rather than reference it. Or, heck, how about some new pictures! :)

Later,
Bill

Right, that picture was from someone in PAL land. My H77 played the clip perfectly.

Picture! Here's the clip on my H77 -
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77u571.jpg

Tom - you realize that this is the fifth time you've posted that same picture in this thread, right? :p

Later,
Bill

PS: Just giving you a hard time while I'm waiting for the UPS guy to show up on Friday. :)

Probably more than that. I like to give a picture to add to the story, it's an old thread.

"Every picture tells a story." :)


How's this for black and black detail?
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77blackdetail.jpg

The Optoma's are great for showing detail in the blacks with deep black also. The whole projector line is basically bright.

Here look at the $900 H30.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h30u571blacks1.jpg

See, Tom, this is what drives me nuts! You show those screen shots from the H31 and I wonder why I'm sitting here trying to squeeze out more budget dollars to buy an H79 versus H77.

I know there are incremental improvements, but is it really THAT much different from the earlier, less expensive models?

This will probably sound sacrilegious and get me permanently exiled, but I'd love to hear someone give me an honest answer to this question:

If the H77 costs X and the H79 costs 2X is there really a 100% difference in performance between the two? If the H31 costs Y and the H79 costs 5Y, can you really say it is 5 times as good? If man x leaves the AV dealer traveling at the speed of light and turns on his H79 will he arrive before the signal is eaten by green worms?

I remember when plasmas were being steadily improved with each generation, and the early generations had lots of issues. I was lucky enough to avoid buying a Pioneer 505HD, held out for the newly shipping Pro1000/503cmx which addressed a lot of PQ issues and I'd still stack it up against all of the new "cutting edge" plasmas coming out today. Glad I waited and payed a little more, because the improvement from 505HD to 1000/503cmx was dramatic, but from then to now is not nearly so.

My point is, isn't that what we are talking about here? Am I driving myself nuts over minor details that neither I nor 99% of my viewing audience is ever going to notice? Let's face it, I'm reading threads from a year ago touting the H77 as the state of the art, gotta have, best ever, and now its passe? I know that's de rigeur in the technology world, but I don't need the latest greatest, especially if I can get a really good movie experience with last year's "gotta have" model. By the way, Bruno, pretty impressive french phrase usage, eh?


Sorry for the rant, and maybe it belongs in a different thread. Its just that I've been reading and rereading these threads for weeks, and I still don't feel close to a decision. I have nightmares where I'm being chased by giant green worms that are kind of out of focus and stuttering. My 27" magnavox SDTV is starting to look better and better.

I understand wanting the best picture possible for a given budget, but as long as I have a projected image that doesn't blur, bleed, crush, stutter, red push, dither, green-worm (my personal favorite), screen door, or pixellate won't I be ok? *

Bottom line, are we talking revolutionary/killer app improvement or just nice to have incremental evolutionary changes? If someone will kindly enlighten me, that would be great.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

* (until the 1080p DLPs come out, of course.)

Wait for 1080 and the 720s will drop in price. That should make things a bit easier. :)

Gary.

I'm building a dedicated theater as we speak and need to make a buying decision in the next two weeks.

I'm thinking spend as little as possible now for a good projector that I'll be happy with for a year or two until 1080p os reasonable. I was thinking I'd buy a used H77 from someone upgrading to the H79, but all this talk of issues start to scare us relative newbies away.

If you can see the H77 before you buy, you can decide if the panning issue is a deal breaker or not. I never really noticed it on mine so it would be a rare occurance IMHO. You can weigh that up with the other positive aspects of the pj and the good price you'll be getting it for. :)

Gary.

Gary, what size screen and throw distance do you have?

Hi Greg,

The screen is 84ins wide (viewable), and the pj is approx 11.5ft away.

Gary.

Greg - the shift from HD to HD2 to HD2+ describes the type of progression with which you are familiar with plasmas. From HD -> HD2, contrast went up 100%. From HD2 -> HD2+ contrast went up another 50% - 75%. Manufacturers also started learning other tricks, like using irises and better optical paths to extract additional contrast, even more than just the differences in the chips.

A HD2+ DC2 (DarkChip2) to a HD2+ DC3 (DarkChip3) is really a subjective question as to whether the incremental performance is worth the extra money. It's a question each of us has to answer, and it actually cuts across models within one family. For me, I have a hang-up on the non-HD resolution. Stupidly, really, given the image quality provided by the other models and that I still watch a fair amount of DVDs and SDTV. However, it's akin to the difference between 0.99 carats and a 1.00 carat diamond. It's still a diamond, right? It's just that one little hang-up. Basically, if you are happy with the H31's image, then go for it. If you want more and can afford more, then get what makes you happy. No matter which way you go, though, you can always sell it later and get something else as you become more familiar with projectors!

Later,
Bill

Nooo no no no no no no no, The H30/31 is a toy next to the HD 1280X720p type projectors. Excellent entry level PJ's they are but definitely entry level. I a/b these two types every week. The H77 or H79 hit you square in the face with the quality jump. No pixel view worries, much tighter image sharpness. You can cozy right up to the screen if you want, no dither no SD-pixel effect.

That and the res-sharpness is worth it if you can spend the money.

Thanks for the clarification and the education gents.

I am going to do my best to get a look at the Optoma 77 in the next week or two. I'm thinking I probably don't need the extra jump to the H79 right now. From the sound of things I can live with the H77 for a year or two until the Mac Daddy units come down in price.

Once I see the H77 and make the final decision, I'm going to start looking in the pre-owned market to save a few bucks. Any pitfalls I need to watch out for? I'm hoping to find a reputable person (AVS Member maybe?), who is upgrading and wants to sell his existing H77. Other than a dim bulb, are there any other things that can go badly?

Thanks again,

Greg

I have a question about the lumens of the H77. Is the H77 900 lumens in normal or bright mode? One of the optima reps told me it was 900 in normal mode. ?? If that is true than what is it in bright mode?

Tom

900 is bright mode, which is closer to 500+ lumens in reality.

Gary.

900 is bright mode, which is closer to 500+ lumens in reality.

Thanks Gary. So then the normal mode is? These seem to be important numbers to know when choosing a screen fabric. Am I correct?

Tom

I seem to remember seeing 700 lumens quoted somewhere, which is around 400 in the real world.

Yes, these numbers are important for selecting screen size and gain. Get it wrong and the image could end up very dim. I prefer around 12ft lamberts with my H77, but as lamps age they continue to get dimmer, so you could try a slightly higher gain and use a lens filter. You can then remove the filter at a later date to get some more lumens back.

Gary.

Thank you Gary. i tried a 1.5 gain video spectra screen. I'm only casting an 84" diagnal and am sitting 12' from the screen . The video spectra has a shimmery artificial look to the faces, blue skies and whites. If i get back further i don't see the shimmery images . but from where i'm sitting i see them. So, Now I have to figure out what is going on. i got wrong information from one of the reps and that confused me more. Guess I need a few more samples. more time and money.

I'm using an 84" wide screen which has a gain of 1.2. Currently I'm using an FL-Day filter and getting around 13ft lamberts. I prefer the image to the one without which is brighter. A 1.5 gain screen is too much gain right now IMHO, but may be fine when the lamp is around a thousand hours old. I think that for lamp projectors, going over 1.3 can start to cause problems. Higher gains are fine for CRT as they don't have a central light source (lamp), so don't hot-spot.

An ND2 lens filter may dim the image enough (50%) to reduce the shimmering and give the image a more theater like level of brightness. Then, as the lamp ages you can take the filter off and get the brightness back. Is that the size of screen you will be using or do you intend on going larger?

Gary.

Gary,
Oddly enough, I'll be using a 88" diagonal High Power. I fear that I may be blinded! However, that FL-Day filter may be the ticket. How are you attaching yours? Thanks!

Later,
Bill

Gary,

Would the H77 work with a screen in the 110" - 118" size?

what would that do to the foot lamberts...

I have looked at the projectorcentral site, but wonder if the footlamberts reported were realistic?

I have the H77 on a 123" silverstar and image is plenty bright. Can watch with ambient lights on and screen still has a bright picture.

Reveille, I'm running the same setup. How many hours on your lamp? Do you use low or hi brightness mode?

H77 on a 110" silver star here. Brightness is not a problem, however if I didn't already have the 110" before I bought the pj I'd probably go with a
100" screen instead, but over all the silverstar H77 combo looks great !

guess i started something here.

gary, i sent my video spectre back . should have posted here first and probably would have tried the filter. I like the idea of having head room for the future when the bulb weakens. the 84" diag. works for my set up so i plan on staying with that size for a while.

Ursa, Please post or pm me when you get the high power. I'd really like to get your opinion.

does anyone think that a high contrast screen with a 1.1 gain would be a good fit? Or is high contrast unnecessary with this pj?

Tom

Can anyone recommend a place to purchase filters?

Bill,

I'm using a 77mm filter turned around so the lip is over the projector lens. My H77 is ceiling mounted, so the gap between the lens and the top (or bottom now as it's upside down) is quite small, so as the filter tries to fall off, the lip holds it on at the bottom. Hard to explain really.

I think the 72mm filter is about the same diameter as the lens, so if you can find a wide rubber band, you can use that to hold it in place - half on the filter, and half on the pj lens. With my H77, I had green at 4 and blue at 9, Red was at 0 IIRC. I'm using an fl-day at the moment, but the 81C might be a better choice. I won't know until I get my H78 back and can recalibrate with Colorfacts. An ND2 might be a better filter option if you need to reduce the lumens by half. I'll be interested in your view of the Hi-Power and the H77 when you get it.

HiHoSteve,

Foot lamberts are calculated by dividing the screen area (square feet) into the lumens, and multiply by the gain (if any). Use 510 lumens for hi lamp, and 400 for low lamp. Those were the figures for my lamp at 60 hours, and they will reduce further as the lamp ages. Were those screen sizes widths or diagonals? If the screen is 8ft wide, you will get 14ft lamberts in hi, 11 in low. Multiply those by the screen gain - 1.2gain = 16.8 and 13.2ft lamberts respectively.

Tom,

Any gain up to 1.3 should be fine. I've seen the H77 on a 50/50 Firehawk/Studiotek 130 screen, and the black level improvement is noticeable. I quite liked the Firehawk, even in a light controlled room, but the black level is already pretty good as it is. WIth an 84" diagonal the extra brightness will brighten the black level too, so with either screen an ND2 filter will give you an improved black level. The HC screen is a personal choice, so I think you'd have to try and see the pj on both a white and HC screen with similar gain to be able to decide if it's for you.

I got my fl-day from here:

http://www.2filter.com/welcometo.html

Gary.

Gary, thank you again. I'm back to trying samples again.

Tom

Originally posted by smddoc
H77 on a 110" silver star here. Brightness is not a problem, however if I didn't already have the 110" before I bought the pj I'd probably go with a
100" screen instead, but over all the silverstar H77 combo looks great !

Just wondering why you'd like to downsize?

I have an oppertunity to upgrade from the H76 to the H77 for about $1000 price difference. I don't find any issues with picture quality from the H76 that are of concern (panning effects, etc.). Has anyone been able to compare these two. The only thing I am really wanting more of is a lower black level.

Rob - A lower black level is easy to achieve with a filter. Save $950 if that's all you want! :)

Pix soon...

I have an ND2 filter waiting for my H76 to get back from Optoma. Does anyone here use a screen with less than 1.0 gain (grey screen) for improved contrast? I'm thinking of replacing my 1.0 fabric with a .8 high contrast grey (Carada).

Originally posted by hdefjunkie
Just wondering why you'd like to downsize?

The image seems to have more Puch at 100 inches and I can keep the focus a little tighter. At 110" I can see the pixels at optimal focus from 12' away, so I keep it de-focused two or three clicks.

Originally posted by RobZ
I have an ND2 filter waiting for my H76 to get back from Optoma. Does anyone here use a screen with less than 1.0 gain (grey screen) for improved contrast? I'm thinking of replacing my 1.0 fabric with a .8 high contrast grey (Carada).

Rob - A gray screen generally won't improve contrast since it lowers the light level evenly across the board. The new Sony screen may be a bit different since it is essentially a polarizer/filter, but ithat's something to be measured (decreased color accuracy would be the most likely side effect if it had an impact).

Later,
Bill

I use a 110" firehawk. It's not like other's "gray" screens. Has an advertised 1.3 gain, some say it's slightly less. I love mine.

So... I have not yet done any measurements or calibrating with the H77, but so far, my impression is pretty positive. The screendoor is less pronounced than with my old Epson 500, but it is still there. However, when watching anything but brilliant white, it mostly disappears. SDE does some odd things for me and how I perceive color (like moire, but more like a slight color shift than a rainbow. Yes, I do see rainbows, so I know what those look like, too.) I used some of the "common" settings on the thread to set-up the projector (color temp 1, gamma 2, etc.). Out of the box, this thing has a nice, new lamp red push, but I'm sure that this will decrease quickly with age, as has been reported several times.

So, since I was jumping on Tom for reusing the same crappy screen shots, I thought I would offer up some of my own. Of course, since I'm shelf mounted, there will be a slight angle to each of the shots, but I hope my fellow H77 owners will forgive me...

First, my set-up. As you can see, I have a lot of ambient light. This is why I use a smaller, high gain screen (77" wide, Da-Lite High Power, Model B with CSR - highly recommended for situations like mine...).
http://www.datapopuli.com/ht/h77/images/h77_ambient.png

Getting the projector set-up was a breeze. The top of the unit is flat, so some quick work with a torpedo level and a tape measure had this thing square and ready for action.
http://www.datapopuli.com/ht/h77/images/h77_level.png

Naturally enough, since the clayface and panning issues are the major ones reported on the H77, I decided to look for those first. However, I did not have to look hard. My desktop had issues straight off the bat!
http://www.datapopuli.com/ht/h77/images/clouds_before.png

To attempt to alleviate this, I went into the service menu and dropped the 60Hz color wheel index from 30 to 28. I also turned off noise reduction. This did not seem to help very much until I turned the projector off, let it cool for a while and went off to research cable ampliefiers some. As I said earlier, some of these issues look like my old Sharp DT200 did when I had insufficient cables. However, the two tweaks seem to have reduced the problem enough where I can now get beyond it.
http://www.datapopuli.com/ht/h77/images/clouds_after.png

More comparison shots (my apologies on the consistency issues with the screenshots. I tried as much as possible to keep them consistent, but you know how it goes with these things...):
http://www.datapopuli.com/ht/h77/images/gandalf_before.png
http://www.datapopuli.com/ht/h77/images/gandalf_after.png

So, with the initial tuning done, I then proceeded to try out various test discs that I like to use. My source units are an HTPC and a JVC 30K DVHS deck. The HTPC is a 1.7GHz Pentium M mated to a Radeon 9600 running TheaterTek 2.1.1 VMR9 renderless with a 2x DVD resize in FFDShow with some slight denoise and sharpening.

I like the opening of Blade Runner as a test for some really obvious reasons. While a terrible transfer overall, the scene with the eye is a good test of ANSI contrast and the ability to give depth to the image.
http://www.datapopuli.com/ht/h77/images/br_opening_eye.png

The scene where they are circling the police station should also appear very 3D if done properly. The H77 and VMR9 renderless worked great:
http://www.datapopuli.com/ht/h77/images/br_city_flight.png
http://www.datapopuli.com/ht/h77/images/br_police_station.png

Shifting back to FOTR, another good test is the ability to show white details. I still have not run a calibration, but I thought this was pretty good OOTB:
http://www.datapopuli.com/ht/h77/images/fotr_snow_climb.png

Now for the WMV-HD version of The Italian Job (shows the heightened reds fairly well - I'll be interested to see how long this takes to even out):
http://www.datapopuli.com/ht/h77/images/wmvhd_italianjob_boat_chase.png
http://www.datapopuli.com/ht/h77/images/wmvhd_italianjob_toast.png
http://www.datapopuli.com/ht/h77/images/wmvhd_italianjob_traffic.png
http://www.datapopuli.com/ht/h77/images/wmvhd_italianjob_wahlbergtheron.png

How about some comparisons between WMV-HD and ordinary DVDs? I prefer the movie Underworld for this:
http://www.datapopuli.com/ht/h77/images/wmvhd_underworld_opening.png
http://www.datapopuli.com/ht/h77/images/dvd_underworld_opening.png

http://www.datapopuli.com/ht/h77/images/wmvhd_underworld_safehouse.png
http://www.datapopuli.com/ht/h77/images/dvd_underworld_safehouse.png

Note the difference in detail in Kraven's shirt:
http://www.datapopuli.com/ht/h77/images/wmvhd_underworld_kraven.png
http://www.datapopuli.com/ht/h77/images/dvd_underworld_kraven.png

Finally, The Mummy Returns on D-VHS from this afternoon:
http://www.datapopuli.com/ht/h77/images/dvhs_mummyreturns_bracelet.png

So far, I like it. It is by no means perfect, but it is a step-up from the Epson. Not as big a step as I'd hoped, but then the Epson was almost spot-on from the start, whereas the H77 will need some time with a light meter and SmartIII to get right.

One final note, I specifically chose Blade Runner and Underworld as test discs because of the issues the H77 has with ch.34 of FOTR. If it can do these relatively dark movies acceptably, then my enjoyment should not be too impaired. Are the panning artifacts and banding issues there? Yes, but I'll have to see whether they are too distracting with a bit more time (versus FPN and VB from the LCD universe).

Later,
Bill

Excellent review, Ursa, thanks for the hard work and the extra effort to provide comparable screenshots! It is good to see, umm, unbiased presentations in this thread. Just curious, what prompted your change of the noise reduction and the color wheel index adjustment? It seems like your approach was dead on, but how the heck did you know to go there?

Some of the information was buried here, and some of it was in Andrea Manuti's review of the HC2000 over at www.htprojectors.com . Also, if you read the HTPC forum with the stuff on FFDShow, you will find that too much noise reduction will quickly kill off detail. I think someone else mentioned it in this thread first, actually, but there was a LOT of detail here to get through in the last week, so it's something of a blur. I apologize in advance to the people who made this discovery originally, and to whom I should give credit now.

By the way, the camera is a Nikon Coolpix 5200 (bought on closeout, of course, for <$200 with a spare battery). I went with the standard shot selection (I'm just learning about the camera - got it last week, too) and a tripod. The pictures were resized using MS Photo Editor to 25% of their original size. Nothing fancy, but hopefully helpful.

Later,
Bill

Did you use an automatic color profile with the Nikon or did you use a defined one.. (not that my monitor, while lovely as a 23" Apple CinemaHD is, is "really" calibrated, but curious)... The Italian job traffic shot with the Mini looks damn good on this screen, btw.

The only thing I changed was the the file size setting from "normal" to "fine" (or some such). I did take a few shots using the "portrait" setting, but I do not think that I posted any of those.

If you have an HTPC, both IJ and UW are "must haves" in my book.

Later,
Bill

I just ordered a H77, and I should have it by next Friday. This will be my first projector and I would like to get some recommendations on screens. I will be going with a 106" diagonal in a light controlled room. The walls are a dark burgandy, and the coffered ceiling is grey with white trim. I looked through some of this thread to see if this was discussed already, but it is so large that I probably missed it. I have ordered some samples from Stewart, Da-lite, and Carada, but I would like to see what screen others are using with this projector.

Thanks

Phisch - a 92" wide screen equates to ~33 square feet of screen real estate. You should be able to do that big with a matte white screen and still get ~12ftL, but that will not give you any headroom for bulb aging. You may want to consider something with some moderate amounts of gain (e.g., Stewart StudioTek, Carada Brilliant White) to maintain "reference levels" (12ftL) without having to resort to running the lamp on high through most of its life.

Now, all that being said, you may like a lower level of light than the accepted reference, and if so, you can do without any gain.

Later,
Bill

Bill..........

What is the Footlamberts setting for Theater Standard... the reference number.

Thanks,

Client1

I have 245 hours on my lamp. I use it in both modes. For sports I like the plasma like feel and turn the brightness in high mode. Since I have an extra bulb I have considered just leaving the projector in high brightness mode all the time. I seem to like the brighter picture.

SteveO
I think the theater reference is around 15 foot lamberts.

Thanks for the reply Bill. I just got my samples from Carada and Stewart. The StudioTek and the Carada brilliant white look very similar in appearance. I just need the samples from Da-lite and I will be checking them all with H77 this weekend.

Originally posted by phisch
Thanks for the reply Bill. I just got my samples from Carada and Stewart. The StudioTek and the Carada brilliant white look very similar in appearance. I just need the samples from Da-lite and I will be checking them all with H77 this weekend.

I'm evaluting screens for my H79. Presently I have a painted DIY
blackout cloth (2coats of Behr Ultra White) and it's real stretch telling
the difference between the StudioTek 130, Carada BW and the BO
cloth. There is very very very slight gain with the StudioTek and
the image is a bit sharper on the two samples.

Did you paint the BO cloth while it was on the wall?

If so, did you get bleed through from the cloth to the wall?

Reveille/HiHoSteve - Theater reference is supposed to be about 12 foot-Lamberts of brightness, but many folks speculate that this number is not achieved consistently. I am probably hitting in the high-20s to low-30s, but until I get out the meter one dark night, I won't be able to say for sure.

Later,
Bill

PS: "TV" reference level is supposed to be around 24ftL from what has been bandied about this forum several times. Plasmas are brighter still.

The Theater 'spec' is around 16ft lamberts with no film in the gate of the projector. With film in, it can drop to 12ft lamberts, so anything in between should be in the ballpark as Reveille has suggested.

I prefer 12 (and don't actualy mind less), but it's definitely a personal thing.

Gary.

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
Did you paint the BO cloth while it was on the wall?

If so, did you get bleed through from the cloth to the wall?

I built a simple 1x4 frame and stretched the BO cloth onto it, then
painted it.

I'm happy with the Dalite High Power screen. Still plenty good blacks and you'll never worry about the image going dim.

Originally posted by guitarman
I'm happy with the Dalite High Power screen. Still plenty good blacks and you'll never worry about the image going dim.

Yup, I have a Dalite high power sample as well (only 6" square though)
and the image with the H79 is very vibrant (almost neon) depending
on where one sits, stands or squats. :)

Although I'll be ceiling mounting the H79, I'm a little divided on
the HP in this configuration. Gonna try a SilverStar sample for kicks
as well.

Anyone have any +/- experience/perceptions with the Stewart Ultramatte
150 and VideoMatte 200? I have samples on the way but it would be
nice to understand other folks impressions.

Thx..

Originally posted by hdefjunkie Although I'll be ceiling mounting the H79, I'm a little divided on the HP in this configuration. Gonna try a SilverStar sample for kicks as well. Were you able to get a SS sample? I haven't had any luck.

I don't have one yet, only been about a week though. The reply from a
Vutec regional sales rep. said it's on the way. Time will tell I guess.

I don't know about others, but selecting a screen is proving alot
more difficult than selecting the projector. The variations between
all the different material has me questioning what I "really like" in PQ.

I'm willing to spring for a StudioTek 130 if it delivered a knock out punch,
but I'm not finding that. :(

Originally posted by hdefjunkie I'm willing to spring for a StudioTek 130 if it delivered a knock out punch,
but I'm not finding that. :( [/B] I've got a 110" firehawk I'm happy with, but considering a 2.35 constant height setup, I'm considering the options, too. I'll probably have some ambient, and the FH is bad to the bone with any ambient. If I go bat-cave I might try something else. So far the WAF on the cave is low...

Originally posted by GetGray
I've got a 110" firehawk I'm happy with, but considering a 2.35 constant height setup, I'm considering the options, too. I'll probably have some ambient, and the FH is bad to the bone with any ambient. If I go bat-cave I might try something else. So far the WAF on the cave is low...

Thanks for the pointer on the FH. I'll also have some ambient light and
the FH sample did not really turn me on. The H79 has great blacks to
begin with, IMHO, it doesn't need help there. Incidently, I temporarily
installed a N2 filter to "see" what half bulb life will look like (currently @
100hrs), and PQ is really not that bad, obviously a bit dimmer (but not alot)
on my painted BO cloth. This experiment has me steered toward a
higher gain white screen.

I saw the FH and the ST130 side by side last year at CEDIA in an ambient light situation Stewart setup. That sold me. Difference was clear in that display that if you had ambient, the FH was the way to go. Can never have too much black. Mine could be blacker for my tastes in the bat cave and a FH to boot :D

I'm happy with the Dalite High Power screen. Still plenty good blacks and you'll never worry about the image going dim.

I plan on ceiling mounting my H77. Will the High Power screen work in that situation, or is it intended for tabletop situations only?

Originally posted by GetGray
I saw the FH and the ST130 side by side last year at CEDIA in an ambient light situation Stewart setup. That sold me. Difference was clear in that display that if you had ambient, the FH was the way to go. Can never have too much black. Mine could be blacker for my tastes in the bat cave and a FH to boot :D

Well, you got me thinkin' again. I'll have to take a closer look at the FH. :confused:

Originally posted by hdefjunkie
Well, you got me thinkin' again. I'll have to take a closer look at the FH. :confused: Sorry :(, I really *do* like mine. That display they had was impressive.

Originally posted by GetGray
Sorry :(, I really *do* like mine. That display they had was impressive.

No worries here.. :)

I took a quick pic of the <left-right> FH, ST130, M2500, Car BW and HP. I
haven't seen to many H79 pics other than guitarmans, so I thought I'd
share. Digital pics are not the most accurate, but the blue AVIA field
seems to present a closer to "true" representation. Camera was sitting
on top of H79 at about 14' throw, 110" diag.

The background is my temporary DIY painted BO cloth.

And a 50IRE shot

Sure you hav ethe FH pointed the right way. A lot of folks have mixed up which is front. Figured not, but just in case...

Originally posted by GetGray
Sure you hav ethe FH pointed the right way. A lot of folks have mixed up which is front. Figured not, but just in case...

Yep, Stewart has a nice little sticky on it saying "Viewing Side".

Originally posted by hdefjunkie
Yep, Stewart has a nice little sticky on it saying "Viewing Side". Now I want to look at samples <big smile>.

Wow, you can sure see the gain of the hp there. It looks like double the m2500. Can also see that the Carada, even though rated the same as the Stewart, is just a little less gain.

Can someone tell me how I can get screen samples ? I don't see how on either the Stewart or Dalite website. I would also like some Carada samples.

Originally posted by phisch
I plan on ceiling mounting my H77. Will the High Power screen work in that situation, or is it intended for tabletop situations only?

You can always use it anywhere..., but the HP is "retro-reflective" which means it sends the light back from whence it came... so if it is ceiling mounted you will be sending the light back up at the ceiling...

You will still get some gain out of it, but it is really best for table mounts.

Originally posted by gobrigavitch
Wow, you can sure see the gain of the hp there. It looks like double the m2500. Can also see that the Carada, even though rated the same as the Stewart, is just a little less gain.

I suspect the HP is at max gain, since the lens is pretty much at the
same level as the HP sample. I'd expect a different result if the projector
was ceiling mounted.

To obtain samples, visit the various websites and send them an email.

Originally posted by phisch
I plan on ceiling mounting my H77. Will the High Power screen work in that situation, or is it intended for tabletop situations only?

Yes it's fine ceiling mounted. It's not like the gain dissapears with a ceiling mount. Gain is still nice and strong and about just right imo. We all guess an actual gain number with this setup, I'll toss my guess in at about 1.8gain ceiling mounted pj.

Actually I just tested light with my light meter. It read a 1. gain drop between lens location and seated eye level. So it looks like my guess is pretty close.

So, my H77 will be calibrated soon (hopefully this weekend), and the calibrator has requested the service manual. Does anyone have one or know where I can get it? Should I just call Optoma directly?

Later,
Bill

Originally posted by Ursa
So, my H77 will be calibrated soon (hopefully this weekend), and the calibrator has requested the service manual. Does anyone have one or know where I can get it? Should I just call Optoma directly? Well, how to get into the service menu was thrown out here long ago, but as far as I know, no one has ever claimed seeing a service manual for it. I'd love to though. Maybe such a thing exists and Optoma will let you have a copy... let us know if they do!

All the calibrator should need is the SM access procedure as GetGray has mentioned. Just give him/her that and it should be all that is needed. If an explanation of what does what in there is needed, just refer them here, or better yet have them call Tom:D!!!

Dave - Given the recent postings in the H79 thread, my guess is that he would rather call Greg Rogers. :)

Later,
Bill

Bill, yes GregR has been very helpful on the H79 thread.


Ok H77 owners my friend Wing is back from Taiwan. Answer to your number 1 question on the H78 upgrade. He's testing it here, will finalize and how did he put it. :)

"Ofcourse Optoma will make every effort to give their customers the support they need."

Very good news. I'll find out the time frame and details when they finish testing and work it out with the tech dept. There's no plans to stop selling the H77.

You made my day! I've been hoping for a potential upgrade for so long. Panning bother me. If they can fix the lose of settings (DVI) in the same time that would be great.

I mentioned the color shift with DVI and he'll test it. Actually I'm ok as is with the H79. Once tuned for DVI/PC brightness for my Bravo it stays that way. I just hit DVI and then re-sync and I'm at the calibrated level for PC.

Yes this is good news for future and past H77 owners.

With my H77 pressing the Re-Sync wipe all my settings but keep the bar where they were. So to readjust I need to change the bars back to zero, press re-sync again. Then move all of them back were they were in the first place. A prayer not to get a colorshift at that point usually help. :)

Bruno

Originally posted by guitarman
Bill, yes GregR has been very helpful on the H79 thread.

Amen to that one! :)

Tom,

The H78 upgrade for you guys is fantastic news!

The improvements are both visible and measurable, so definitely worth it IMHO. Optoma seem to have a great customer service world-wide judging by this level of support both here (UK) and the USA, and that can only help sales as well as ensure satisfied customers.

Can't wait for Greg Rogers report on the H79 either. :)

Gary.

I told Wing how you said NTSC benefits also. The key being the guicker pans.

GregR, the reveiw s/b good. If he's not knocked out by the projector, he's either blind or got a bum unit. ;)

Kidding aside, I got the impression he's pretty excited about the projector. Already happy to jump in with some quick input.

Would one of you Optoma H77 / HTPC users be willing to export the Windows registry key for your projector and post it or PM it to me? You can get to it by going to Start, Run and type regedit. Once in regedit you can go to:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Enum\DISPLAY\

You can then right-click on the entry for the projector and export it. In the Drop Down box for "Save In:" select the desktop or any other place you like. Give it a name in the "File name:" and select "Text Files" in the "Save as type:". You should see the branch listed at the bottom and the circle next to "Selected branch" should be selected. Click Save.

You can then open the txt file that you saved. The piece I am most interested in is the EDID data, but you can PM the hole thing to me.

Now the reason. I had a projector that didn't have this correct which caused some syncing issues with my DVD player, and I am in a search for one that does.

Anyone's help would be greatly appreciated.

Im actually dumping my BARCO 701S CRT That throws an incredibe picture. I installed a 77 for a client and once I fired it up the first thing I said to my self was why the hell do I still have a big CRT projector in my theate? Well I see that there was a hell of a deal from one of my reps so I decided to go for it. The BARCO is on ebay and I dont even think Ill miss it. I am awaiting my 77 and as soon as it comes in the BARCO is getting pulled the hell out of my theater and getting boxed up in its road case. CRT is offically dead as far as Im concerned with projectors like the OPTOMA 77 and 79 out there at affordable pricing. Who needs the constant fiddiling to get a great picture. I'll take lamp replacements over the constantly tweeking a CRT to keep the image looking right any day!

Oh yea I plan to keep my CS-HD Scaler and run the H77 at 720p fed via 5 BNC RGBHV to keep the traditional 2 piece projection I have in my theater. I think the H77 will benifit from being ran with an outboard processor, something Forudja is still doing on there high end 3 chip systems.

Originally posted by VR Audio Systems
Im actually dumping my BARCO 701S CRT That throws an incredibe picture. I installed a 77 for a client and once I fired it up the first thing I said to my self was why the hell do I still have a big CRT projector in my theate? Well I see that there was a hell of a deal from one of my reps so I decided to go for it. The BARCO is on ebay and I dont even think Ill miss it. I am awaiting my 77 and as soon as it comes in the BARCO is getting pulled the hell out of my theater and getting boxed up in its road case. CRT is offically dead as far as Im concerned with projectors like the OPTOMA 77 and 79 out there at affordable pricing. Who needs the constant fiddiling to get a great picture. I'll take lamp replacements over the constantly tweeking a CRT to keep the image looking right any day!

Oh yea I plan to keep my CS-HD Scaler and run the H77 at 720p fed via 5 BNC RGBHV to keep the traditional 2 piece projection I have in my theater. I think the H77 will benifit from being ran with an outboard processor, something Forudja is still doing on there high end 3 chip systems.

Look into using the DVI on the CS-HD to feed the H77 it will give better result if you can drive the H77 pixel perfect (native).

Daniel.

Vic,

I see you're in the "biz". I HIGHLY suggest you get the H78 upgrade if it becomes available in the USA to help with the known panning issues of the H77. Or better yet, go with the H79 instead:).

You described exactly what some of my thoughts have been regarding CRTs. The only thing I'd take over this H79 right now would be my old G90 or one of those tricked out Marquee modded units.

I was looking at CRT's on Ebay yesterday. Images posted were soft, you'll never worry about a Sharp converged piture with the H77. Plus the wieght on the CRT's is over 125lbs. I pictured two of us on ladders trying to ceiling mount the thing. Then I thought about the fan sound and worried about the low lumens and gave up.

Dave, the upgrade is definelty coming.

Guitarman I have a CRT the picture is only a little soft with non HD satellite but over all its awsome. Im just sick of it takign up my living room and the constant need to tweek it to keep the image dialed in.

Yea maby I will run the DVI cable that would be easier to to do and have less wirs going to the PJ I didnt even think of that. I forgot the CS-HS had a DVI out put...see another reason to DUMP the CRT lol

Vic - no long time, no speak! When you get your H77, the first things to change are to check for banding. If you have some, then enter the service menu and try lowering the color wheel index a tick or two. Exit the menu and cycle the power. If that does not fix it, then check to see whether noise reduction is turned on or not (it should be). Turn off noise reduction if it is on, and cycle the power again. Verify that both settings "stuck" when you turn the projector back on.

Out of the box, mine looked like garbage, but it is starting to learn to behave. Dropping the CWI and turning off NR helped quite a bit. Once I get it calibrated and hook-up the RS232 IR interface, then it will hopefully be even better. With the H78 upgrade, I'd hope it would be excellent!

Later,
Bill