How do you enter the service menu on the H77? I received my H77 a couple of days ago, but I have not yet had the chance to hook it up. Hopefully, I will have it up and running this weekend and should be able to do some viewing with it.

looking from the back to the front of the projector, the four buttons in a row on top, you hit the left two and the far right at the same time. I wouldn't go around trying things without confirming what they'll do. No auto-cals, no gamma tables, don't even look at them. ;)

CWI is ok,

Thanks Tom. This is my first projector, so being a novice, I don't plan to mess with things I don't understand. I just wanted to be able to change the CW speed if my unit displays the banding that Bill talks about in the preceding post.

The Color Wheel Index is a bit different than the speed, but since you can't actually change the wheel speed itself, you are generally safe without worrying too much about the distinction.

Later,
Bill

Hi Ursa

You've had your H77 for awhile now. How satisfied are you with it? I'll be buying a new pj in a few months and I'm trying to decide if the H79 is worth the extra coin. I'll be buying sight unseen so I'm a little worried about the panning artifacts. It seems most aren't bothered, but a few are very bothered. I really liked a sharp 12000 that I saw, but I understand it doesn't have the artifacts. I'm hoping Optoma USA steps up to the plate and offers the h78 upgrade and then it will be a non issue.

I a/b'd the H77 and H79 with the Spiderman 2 scene and on the H77, the banding, posterization, color separation, whatever name you give it, it was horrible. Sixty seconds later, watching the same scene on the H79, not one hint of a problem.

The H78 upgrade displays the Spidey 2 scene with no problems either, so lest hope Optoma get this upgrade rolling for you guys soon.

Gary.

Originally posted by 1st on the Block
I a/b'd the H77 and H79 with the Spiderman 2 scene and on the H77, the banding, posterization, color separation, whatever name you give it, it was horrible. Sixty seconds later, watching the same scene on the H79, not one hint of a problem.

My thoughts exactly.

gobrigavitch,

If you're planning on upgrading your pj in the next couple of years to something like a 1080p unit, I'd say go with the H77 modded to H78 when available, if money is an issue right now.

If you want to keep the pj for a little while, say 4-5 years, definitely go with the H79. As you live with it longer and get better at knowing what good video is supposed to look like, you'll appreciate the H79 more.

Originally posted by gobrigavitch
Hi Ursa

You've had your H77 for awhile now. How satisfied are you with it? I'll be buying a new pj in a few months and I'm trying to decide if the H79 is worth the extra coin. I'll be buying sight unseen so I'm a little worried about the panning artifacts. It seems most aren't bothered, but a few are very bothered. I really liked a sharp 12000 that I saw, but I understand it doesn't have the artifacts. I'm hoping Optoma USA steps up to the plate and offers the h78 upgrade and then it will be a non issue.

Actually, I'm still pretty new with it. I just ticked over 100 hours, and it seems to be settling down. I need to coordinate with the guy who will be doing my calibration , and I will be interested in his opinion (his opinion helped sway me to purchase my last projector, so I trust his eye...).

As for the H77, I would concur with the group that if the H78 becomes available, then you are set. However, I had to read through this thread and the H79 thread twice (plus Andrea Manuti's review of the HC2000) to find the appropriate service menu setting changes to make my H77 acceptable.

Right now, I am going with:
CWI - 28 (originally 30)
Noise Reduction - Off (originally on)
Mode - TV (per Greg Rogers)
Gamma - 1 (per Greg Rogers)
Color Temp - 2 (to counteract some of the early lamp red)

The rest of the settings are mostly at default until I get it calibrated. Also, the memories are bizarrely labeled (e.g., "Vivid" is actually a memory), so be sure to use those.

All in all, I would check on the stock situation and only jump on an H77 if you thought that the new ones were about to be gone. Otherwise, hold off for a bit pending the H78 resolution (which Optoma support says has already been field tested with no apparent improvement in NTSC picture quality).

Later,
Bill

Let me start out by saying I am not trying to fuel the flames or create a debate.... just curious.........

An acquaintance who is knowledgeable on projectors commented that he felt the H77 was pretty much the same as the BenQ 8700+... perhaps a little dimmer, but with the benefit of lens shift and much quieter operation.

If any of you folks have A/B'd the two of these I would be interested in how your views compare to his.

I realize that as most/many of you in this thread have already made your selection and most of us tend to put our money where are opinion's are... I am still curious as to what any of you might have observed if you had the chance to directly compare these two.

Here is the word on the H78 directly from Optoma...

"I believe the H78 is only sold in Europe because it has improved PAL capability. European HD is 576p, but in the US HD is 720p or 1080i.
The H78 is not sold in the US, as there is no need for it."

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
Let me start out by saying I am not trying to fuel the flames or create a debate.... just curious.........

An acquaintance who is knowledgeable on projectors commented that he felt the H77 was pretty much the same as the BenQ 8700+... perhaps a little dimmer, but with the benefit of lens shift and much quieter operation.

If any of you folks have A/B'd the two of these I would be interested in how your views compare to his.

I realize that as most/many of you in this thread have already made your selection and most of us tend to put our money where are opinion's are... I am still curious as to what any of you might have observed if you had the chance to directly compare these two.

I've seen both and the Optoma is a better machine. More contrast. I got 1700:1 with my Extech meter with the 8700+ after basic calibration and 2300:1 for the Optoma. Doesn't sound like much but you could feel it. Color are more vivid with the Optoma than the Benq. The extra green segments in the Optoma is also good to reduce noise in dark picture.

The only real negatives on the Optoma are the panning effect. It has to be fix by Optoma it's annoying and when you know about that defect you can spot it more often. The firmware is buggy on the H77 and the H79. I haven't been able to calibrate my H77 with Opticone feeding it DVI because I loose my setting all the time.

Benq was buggy also when I test. It refuses to stop some time (fan would go on all night) Resolution and refresh rate would stay on until I play with the remote...ect.. But problem that are not as annoying as the H77 IMO.

If the H78 upgrade is made available the H77 would be a good machine for the money. But without it I wouldn't be surprise that a lot of people would prefer the Benq 8700+ or the Toshiba M700 or the Benq 7700.

Bruno

Originally posted by dyerhouse
Here is the word on the H78 directly from Optoma...

"I believe the H78 is only sold in Europe because it has improved PAL capability. European HD is 576p, but in the US HD is 720p or 1080i.
The H78 is not sold in the US, as there is no need for it."

That is real b u l l s h i t. I send a clip to Gary so he could check if it makes a difference with the upgrade. The clip is NTSC and payed at 60hz. The panning effect are gone. That clip is the worst I've seen. If the upgrade cure the problem with that clip I'm 100% confident that it cure all the panning defect the H77 is having.

Bruno

Bruno - that's about the same that I got out of the Optoma support folks. However, we need to get someone with real decision-making powers to do this for us, and not try to keep beating our heads against a wall on the service front.

Tom/G-man - Did Wing give an indication as to when he'd be done testing? Also, does he need any test material? I'm assuming he can read this thread to find some of the offending clips, but I'm perfectly willing to help him make the right decision with whatever resources I can.

Finally, can someone please PM me or post Otto Kang's contact info?

Later,
Bill

European HD is 1080i @50hz, SD is 576!

The blurb for the H78 does say improvements for PAL etc, but the panning issues via DVI (480 @ 60hz) were gone, whereas they were there with the H77. I could always try a standalone player and try the Spidey2 scene (I have the R1 Superbit) and see what it's like, but I'll be surprised if it's there.

Gary.

Bill, no time frame just that it's here for testing and working out the details with the guys that will have to do the work.

Tom,

Why don't you have Bruno email you the clip he says is so obviously terrible and then you could forward it to Mr. Wing?? Seems like that might be a great test clip for them.

He already knows what to look for in testing dither effects for panning scenes.

Maybe we need to tell them to buy them back from us if they do not want to fix the problem. With C17 it's better but in my opinion it should not be a problem to began with. Wake up Optoma!

I got the same answer from Optoma Service that there will not be a upgrade. I guess we will see. Hopefully Wing will have some pull. I do question if they end up doing it how much do you think it will cost us?

First, there needs to be enough owners calling CS, TS, and management requesting the upgrade......... politely normally works best!

I'll personally fly out there if they buy me the ticket and show them exactly what to look for if they wish!!! They played pretty dumb when I mentioned it a few months back when I owned the H77. How they can't see it, especially compared to the new H79 now, is completely beyond my comprehension:rolleyes:

I can send the clip I send to Gary. The only way of not seeing the defect with that clip it's to put your hands in front of your eyes. I just hope it's not what the Optoma techs are doing when the compare the H78 to the H77.

Bruno

Bruno - how big's the clip? I'd be interested in getting it since I have one of the last one's off the production line.

Later,
Bill

Originally posted by Ursa
Bruno - how big's the clip? I'd be interested in getting it since I have one of the last one's off the production line.

Later,
Bill

it's 35meg only. PM me you e-mail. I will send it tonight when I'm home.

Bruno

Originally posted by bgosselin
I can send the clip I send to Gary. The only way of not seeing the defect with that clip it's to put your hands in front of your eyes. I just hope it's not what the Optoma techs are doing when the compare the H78 to the H77.

Bruno

Sort of the video method of sticking your fingers in your ears while loudly chanting LALALALALALALA????

There is no problem....... "because there is no spoon!"

Originally posted by dyerhouse
Here is the word on the H78 directly from Optoma...

"I believe the H78 is only sold in Europe because it has improved PAL capability. European HD is 576p, but in the US HD is 720p or 1080i.
The H78 is not sold in the US, as there is no need for it."

Yeah thats it our HD is 576p .. so we had HD for years .. dammit why don't people tell me these things ive been waiting for 720p and 1080i for nothing. Ill inform the HD Ready people too that their new PR campain is not needed anymore we are already HD !

Daniel.

If anybody wants to try the clip it's on the web. Will be available for 7 days or for a limited number of downloads.

Just watch the green girl walking if front of the screen. Look at her face. If you want to know how it is supposed to look like. Just pause.

My Two Bobs. Anime horror panning clip (http://s41.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2LSU8U5SSDJY61PO7OQO0SE1JJ)

Bruno

Bruno - I'd agree that the clip definitely highlights the panning issues.

Gary - To reconfirm, the H78 plays this perfectly (or at least as well as your HT1000)?

Later,
Bill

Yes - there's a huge improvement over the H77 when played on the H78. When I played the clip to the Optoma UK guys, I needed to tell them what they would have seen on the H77 since it wasn't obvious at all on the H78.

I played it on the HT1000 and they rendered it the same, so I'd say it's as good as the NEC is now in that respect.

As for the Spidey 2 bike scene, it playes perfectly.

Gary.

Tried to get into service menu and it worked. However, when an option was highlighted, ie. Colour Wheel Index, pushing enter did not get me into the menu to alter the settings. I could move down the list of options but pressing enter on the unit, not remote, did nothing. Anyone know how to do this?

Has anyone heard of manufacturers rcycling bulb housings to reduce bulb replacement costs? Heard Sony is going to do this but wondered if others were as well eg. Optoma???

Originally posted by jayray
Tried to get into service menu and it worked. However, when an option was highlighted, ie. Colour Wheel Index, pushing enter did not get me into the menu to alter the settings. I could move down the list of options but pressing enter on the unit, not remote, did nothing. Anyone know how to do this?

Just use the remote once you are in. It should be pretty easy from there, though some options are a little inconsistent (e.g., there's no sub-menu to speak of, IIRC).

Later,
Bill

Several folks here asked about inexpensive remote options for the AV-RS232 H77 controller before the powerbuy ends. Becasue they may not see it otherwise, I'm posting this link as promised on the H77 and H79 review threads. Please excuse the static if this is of no interest:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5567429#post5567429

Hang in there guys, I'll check in with Wing Tuesday to see how the 78 upgrade is looking. Don't freak out about the tech calls. After all Wing is the boss dude in the technical area. They can't make a move or give an opinion with out him.

News, Wing says it's going to work, he's comparred the H78 upgrades with the H79 on how it handles the dither effect for certain panning scenes and it compares the same. Time frame is 1 or 2 weeks from now. There will be a low similar charge to what the UK headquarters had to charge.

So if you want the benefits the around $150 doesn't seem too high. If you're happy with the way your projector is now stand pat.

Originally posted by guitarman
News, Wing says it's going to work, he's comparred the H78 upgrades with the H79 on how it handles the dither effect for certain panning scenes and it compares the same. Time frame is 1 or 2 weeks from now. There will be a low similar charge to what the UK headquarters had to charge.

So if you want the benefits the around $150 doesn't seem too high. If you're happy with the way your projector is now stand pat.

Great news that it will be available for usa users, 2 request could he tell us what is changed (we have a idea) and how it effects things. And could they please use the same naming :)

so we get a H77,H78 and H79 using the same name in all areas :), just tell him it makes our lives as forum members alot easer *grin*

Daniel.

So will the USA "H78 Upgrade" also add the CR and lumens output to NTSC sources or is that still only for PAL?

John

It's the exact same stuff that went into bettering the PAL machines. He got the low down and products when he went to Taiwan two weeks ago.

Mostly I think it's Firmware upgrades and timing changes. I'll be talking with him again to see what else went into it.

If my H78 is anything to go buy, the CR and lumen increases are across the board.

I only use HTPC via DVI at 1280 x 720 @60hz, and I measured more lumens after the mod at 170 hours than I did pre-mod at 60 hours - and I think it had dropped a few lumens in the mean time.

The H78 mod is a 'must have' imho. Not only for the issues it fixes, but for the improvements it adds - CR goes up and colour balance is better. Ive not yet tried PAL sources on it, but I'm more than happy with what I'm seeing via the PC.

Gary.

Originally posted by guitarman
News, Wing says it's going to work, he's comparred the H78 upgrades with the H79 on how it handles the dither effect for certain panning scenes and it compares the same. Time frame is 1 or 2 weeks from now. There will be a low similar charge to what the UK headquarters had to charge.

So if you want the benefits the around $150 doesn't seem too high. If you're happy with the way your projector is now stand pat.

Alleluia!!! :D

Bruno

Great news Thanks Tom.:D :D

How do the boys in Canada get to do this upgrade? We'd hate to lose out on this.

Tom,

thanks for spearheading this request....................

I thought it was going to take a large upswell from the installed masses and I am eager to admit I was wrong!

Please convey the thanks from all of us to Mr. Wing!

Could you ask Mr. Wing if I can have the H77 shipped directly to him from the source I am buying it?

Thanks,

Steve

As soon as they're ready to start giving out RMA's I'll let you know. I'd imagine you could have them sent from any where.

Tom, You da Man! Well, I guess Wing's da Man ;)

Hey Tom,

Can you ask Wing if I can send in my H79 and have it downgraded to an H78 and they can give me the difference in price back:p?!?!?! Why not, they fixed the panning issues on the H77 w/ this upgrade, which was the only thing I really hated about the H77:D!!!

(***poster's note: Just kidding of course;)!!!)

Originally posted by Gary Lightfoot
If my H78 is anything to go buy, the CR and lumen increases are across the board.

I only use HTPC via DVI at 1280 x 720 @60hz, and I measured more lumens after the mod at 170 hours than I did pre-mod at 60 hours - and I think it had dropped a few lumens in the mean time.

The H78 mod is a 'must have' imho. Not only for the issues it fixes, but for the improvements it adds - CR goes up and colour balance is better. Ive not yet tried PAL sources on it, but I'm more than happy with what I'm seeing via the PC.

Gary.

Why are you running it at 1280x720@60 and not 1280x720@50 ? I can't see alot of differences and the projector goes down about 8dB.

Daniel.

I think he's using that for his NTSC DVDs, right Gary??? If so, I'd suggest trying 48Hz and you'll get the same benefit as the 50Hz for PAL DVDs.

That's right Dave,

Even with PAL DVDs, I still leave it at 1280 x 720 and 60hz - I think the software DVD players must be adding 3:2 pull-down to PAL material as I don't see any difference to NTSC stuff. Maybe if I installed Powerstrip and tried 50hz and 48hz I might then notice a difference in smoothness, but currently I don't really notice anything negative so just leave it 60hz for everything. :).

Gary.

Originally posted by Gary Lightfoot
That's right Dave,

Even with PAL DVDs, I still leave it at 1280 x 720 and 60hz - I think the software DVD players must be adding 3:2 pull-down to PAL material as I don't see any difference to NTSC stuff. Maybe if I installed Powerstrip and tried 50hz and 48hz I might then notice a difference in smoothness, but currently I don't really notice anything negative so just leave it 60hz for everything. :).

Gary.

My whole point is when using PAL goto 50hz and ntsc 48hz because the projector becomes _alot_ more silent. Ill do some more tesing (dvdo) but last time i tried i also didn't see any difference so the most logical step is to drive is lower instead of higher or am i missing something.

Daniel.

Originally posted by Gary Lightfoot
That's right Dave,

Even with PAL DVDs, I still leave it at 1280 x 720 and 60hz - I think the software DVD players must be adding 3:2 pull-down to PAL material as I don't see any difference to NTSC stuff. Maybe if I installed Powerstrip and tried 50hz and 48hz I might then notice a difference in smoothness, but currently I don't really notice anything negative so just leave it 60hz for everything. :).

Gary.

That is weird. 3:2 pull down is a way to modifiy 24fps to 60fps to fit with the 60hz of NTSC. Every second you take half the frame that you repeat 3 times (24/2*3) and half the frame repeat 2 times (24/2*2). The total give us 60fps. But to convert 25fps (pal) to 60fps is a lot more complicated. For pal you should run at 50hz or 75hz and for NTSC you should do 48hz or 60 depending on the source material. If it video (like tv series) you should do 60hz. If it's film it should be 48hz. If you have a good 3:2 pulldown than leaving it at 60hz keep the picture smooth.

Bruno

Tom,

Did you ask them about the DVI problem we have? Mine doesn't stick. So I have to re-sync everytime and re-enter my setting in the advance menu to make that work. I would like both problem to be fix when it's comming back to me.

Bruno

He's looking into the re-sync vs DVI changes and color shift. With mine the user RGB's will stay but I have to hit re-sync to get to PC-video brightness level. Grayscale is picked up ok.

Try putting your user RGB's back to zero manually, don't use the user reset. Then run your grayscale tuning with the service ADC rgb's. The ADC/rgb will in turn adjust the Picture RGB, they relate to each other. I'm thinking this should keep your grayscale settings automatic. I'll try it myself also.

Tom - Let me add my thanks to spearheading talking with Optoma! From my standpoint, you've definitely earned the first H1080 off the line! :)

Later,
Bill

You're Welcome!

Gary,

Did you take any lumen measurements with the before and after ??

Guys,

I know how the 3:2 pull-down works etc, so I was surprised that I couldn't see any difference. With my first pj, a Davis DLS8, I had to run it at 72hz for NTSC, and 75hz for PAL. When got the HT1000 I tried those combinations and I think it was purely by accident that I once realised I'd been watching a PAL movie at 60hz and didn't notice. I kept it like that to see if I'd see something but never did, so left it like that.

When I got the H77, I left that at 60hz for both PAL and NTSC and it looked fine to me, so that's how I use it. I will try 48 and 50hz sometime though.

I took some lumen readings at 60 hours with the H77, and it was about 510 for high lamp. When I sent it off it had around 170hours on it, and when I got it back as an H78, I measured the lumens at 550, which is quite a jump as it would have been even dimmer after a further 100 hours on the lamp.

Lo lamp mode had an increase too - I thionk it went from 398 to around 425.

Gary.

Gary - The jump in lumens sounds like Optoma might have been originally a little too conservative on the spoke timings for new 8 segment wheel. That big of a jump in illumination without a change in lamp or chip sounds like we now have a bit more "on" time from the mirrors for each color (which would also reduce some of the issues around panning/motion, etc).

Have you tested the new mods with the CIE chart as well?

Later,
Bill

Hi Bill,

That's an interesting point - if the mirror switching is faster, then I can see how they may get more 'on' time before the spoke comes into play. The Optoma UK guy originaly said that was how it was done (faster mirror switching), but I wondered how full on white would be made brighter since the mirrors weren't switching on and off. I didn't take spoke time into account. He did mention something about lamp modulation as well, as if they were getting a more consistent brightness from it, but I think the mirror switching is where most of the extra lumens must be coming from now that you've pointed it out. :)

My original CF100 sensor was going out of calibration and giving me a very limited and very small CIE triangle so I couldn't consider it accurate, though the HT1000 CIE it produced was pretty good. With the new sensor, the HT1000 is achieving an almost perfect CIE and the H78 is much better.

I can post it here if you like?

Gary.

Gary - Post it here or e-mail me, if you would. The good news about the fix including a decrease in spoke time is that we should see a commensurate increase in contrast with the increased light output (e.g., about 10%). This definitely means that there's no H79 in my future if the H78 can play Bruno's Reboot clip (or FOTR, for that matter) well.

Once I get my unit fixed and calibrated, I'll try to comb through the entirety of this and the H79 threads to pull together all the useful info into one repository. I'd love before and after shots of the CIE to go along with the CR and illumination measurements.

Later,
Bill

Hi Bill,

On my H77, I measured around 2300:1 CR out of the box using colour temp 2, and 2400:1 using the same settings for the H78, so thats an increase of 100:1 CR.

I'm getting 2700:1 using a Hoya fl-day and skylght 1b combined @D65 which isn't too bad.

Brunos clip plays really well now (I think you'll be impressed), but I can't say how much better the FOTR sequence is because I never tried it on teh H77, and I can't see what is meant to be wrong with it on the H78 so that must be a good sign. :)

Gary.

Gary - Thanks! How much do the filters cut your light output?

Later,
Bill

Thanks for your efforts Gary in regards to informing us about the H78 upgrades (you too Tom :D). And while I'll take higher CR's and lumens figures any day, I have to ask, can you actually SEE a tangile difference in PQ (aside from the motion artifacts) betweem the 77 and 78 watching the same movie scene? An increase of 100:1 CR and about 100 lumens sounds good, but is it something you'd need test equipment to notice? I'm having the upgrade done regardless, when available, I just don't know what to expect.

Regards,
Anthony

Bill,

I think the fl-day is around 11%, but I can't remember exactly - I'll try to remember to take a before and after reading next time I have it switched on.

Anthony,

Glad I've managed to be helpful to you guys. Other than the improved panning which is obvious to see, I think I do notice the extra brightness too.


Gary,

Well its been a while since Ive been on this site, I am an early purchacer of the H77. I love this thing, I have noticed the panning issues on occasion though. I still have firmware vers C8 on my pj. I see that Optoma has figured out how to fix the panning issue. What I dont understand is why it cost money to get it fixed when it is still under warranty? Am I missing something here? Thanks.

What I dont understand is why it cost money to get it fixed when it is still under warranty? Am I missing something here?

Not to mention that it's something that should have worked correctly to begin with. Was kinda wondering about that myself.

Yeah, doesn't really make sense, does it?

What's amazing to me is how many people say they now see the panning problem I reported long ago on the H77, now that it's fixed:rolleyes: Where were they last year?

This is huge news to me. Now how silly is that, since I've never seen the projector, let alone the alleged "panning artifact" that shows up if you watch a specific scene from a specific movie most of us don't even have unless we download it from a mystery site.... Like the old joke, "Doc, it hurts when I do this." Doc says, "Then don't do that."

Still, I've relied an awful lot on what I have read here over the years, and I've found that if you take your time and participate in several threads over a period of time, you actually get a good sense of what's going on with these products. You certainly have to have a serious BS filter and learn to sift the fact from hyperbole and blatant misinformation (or religion when it comes to CRT-DLP wars), but if you live in an area that lacks showrooms where you can see these things in action, you can still learn almost as much at this forum. Maybe more, since we can all be fooled by a good/bad calibration setup. So I say thanks to all of you.

I babble all this to say I have made my decision to buy the Optoma H77. The last objection was the "panning artifact." Now I can relax in the knowledge that if the artifact makes contemplate suicide, it can be fixed for a mere $150 (oh yeah, also due to the members of this forum.)

So last call for any of you H77 owners looking to upgrade. These things are down to the mid-$3k range thanks to BenQ and the H79, so come strong with a good offer and I'll help you fund your upgrade.

Lastly, I remember seeing some discussion about a free replacement bulb deal. Anyone remember where that was?

Thanks again!

Greg

Originally posted by Greg099
This is huge news to me. Now how silly is that, since I've never seen the projector, let alone the alleged "panning artifact" that shows up if you watch a specific scene from a specific movie most of us don't even have unless we download it from a mystery site.... Like the old joke, "Doc, it hurts when I do this." Doc says, "Then don't do that."

It is DEFINITELY NOT "alleged" or only a specific scene in a specific movie. The panning artifact is there with everything it displays. I notice it most with HD actually. If you know what you're looking at, you'll see it constantly anytime there's a horizontal pan, regardless of source, disc, tape or broadcast, in SD or HD.

Those scenes were just referenced so someone that doesn't know what to look for, they show the effect a little easier to spot. Kinda like the red Tinkertoy lid in "Toy Story" shows the CUE (Chroma Upsampling Error) very easily for all to see who has a DVD player with this problem.

Now that it appears to be fixed though, congratulations on the choice of a now great DLP:)!!!

Originally posted by tubby
Well its been a while since Ive been on this site, I am an early purchacer of the H77. I love this thing, I have noticed the panning issues on occasion though. I still have firmware vers C8 on my pj. I see that Optoma has figured out how to fix the panning issue. What I dont understand is why it cost money to get it fixed when it is still under warranty? Am I missing something here? Thanks.

Well atleast in europe (where this started) they don't see it as a fix, but made a new model the H78. The H77 can be upgraded to this new model for 150euro. The cost is mostly based on 2 way shipping and handling cost. Reports are coming in that some people get the upgrade if the machine is in the
shop anyway. Mine had a optical problem and ive send it for a checkup+upgrade lets see if i get a bill.


Greetings,

Daniel.

Stand pat if you're happy with the picture now. I certainly didn't see a panning problem until certain scenes were pointed out to me. But to no surprise my other displays played them the same way. (FOTR Journey in the dark). So if nothings bothering you save your time, save your money. Up to you, jmo

Although the increase in brightness and contrast sounds interesting.

This begs the question...if they did something to the H77's to improve brightness and contrast, it follows that if they did the same thing to the H79 with the DC3 chip, it would improve it, too. Something to ping Wing about Tom :)

It's worth a try. I won't be bugging Wing for a couple weeks. I have to let the guy work. Plus he's off to Taiwan again at the end of the month. He said he'll clear up the H77 thing before he goes. They're working on a device to talk to a certain board inside the H77. Bet it's the board with the DLP chip on it. ;)

Originally posted by GetGray
This begs the question...if they did something to the H77's to improve brightness and contrast, it follows that if they did the same thing to the H79 with the DC3 chip, it would improve it, too. Something to ping Wing about Tom :)

the feeling i got was that its the other way around, they worked on the H79 more and TI also did some more work. The dual speed mirrors where always used on the dc3 not the dc2 (it seems). to me it looks like 'backporting' the H79 to the H78 without the new DMD.

Daniel.

Does anybody know if future shipping models, will have these "fixes" built in, or if you buy a new 77 in oh say 3 months, will they still likely have the problem?

Reason I ask is I don't own a projector yet, and if the projector will need to be sent in still in order to perform at it's optimum (not to mention cost extra money), I need to factor that in to my buying decision.

Yes later H77's will have the upgrade.

Papajin,

Here in the UK, you can't buy an H77 new anymore, only the H78. The only H77s that exist are the ones bought before the mod was announced, and they can be upgraded at any time.

TI developed some improved sequence codes for the DMD, and combined with new Optoma firmware and I believe some electronics mods, you can get more brightness and contrast - both of which have been measured, along with the visible improvement of the panning issue.

I was told by the Optoma UK Product Manager that faster morror speeds help produce the extra brightness due to more 'on time' (and I believe better lamp modulation), and as Bill (Ursa) mentioned somewhere else, faster switching may allow more 'on time' for the mirrors so they dont switch off so early prior top the spokes in the color wheel, and that makes good sense to me. :)

Gary

Great question, Papa!

Tom, I know this is asking a lot, but do you know how long it will be before new units will have the upgrade? Unless someone upgrading to the H79 sells me theirs in the next week or two, I'll probably be buying one new. Of course, if its bought from a dealer who has old stock, it probably won't have been upgraded either.

Do most of the online retailers carry inventory of these? As quickly as the market changes, I can't imagine they carry to big an inventory.

Thanks,

Greg

Gary - depending upon how conservative they were with the timings originally, Optoma might not need "faster" switching to get more "on" time. However, I'll take whatever they give me if it works. Once my unit is upgraded, I will definitely consider this a good bargain (for my mid-grade budget).

What is disappointing is that you did not get nearly as big of a bump in CR as I would have expected. You should have seen a commensurate increase in CR with the increase in light output (i.e., black level should have stayed constant). Of course, with more "on" time, the color gamut might have shifted, which might have robbed some of the available CR (but again, it should have robbed light output, too). You may want to try a new, full calibration to see if any settings change.

Tom - are they going to continue distributing the H77/8 in the US? My understanding was that these were on close-out here, and that only Europe was going to keep getting the H78.

Later,
Bill

First thing I asked was were they planning on continuing the H77 and got an absolute yes. Yes with the upgrade making it a very good bargin choice in it's category level. Of course the Dark chip3 is better but it's in it's own category / price level.

The H77 had growing pains with the new eight-segment wheel, but now that that's over this makes the H77 a killer buy. You want that wheel for the blacks and no dither. HD2+/no dither sounds good to me. :)

Re future stock with upgrade onboard, maybe I can get a date code so you can check stock with the dealer.

Originally posted by guitarman
Yes later H77's will have the upgrade.

Pity they won't rename it too will be so confusing... o well...

Daniel.

Another code name is a good idea, perhaps an H77a.

Hi Bill,

I think the extra 100:1 CR is approximately in line with the increase of lumens.

I measured 398 lumens in low lamp as the H77, and approx 425 lumens as H78 (IIRC). That equates to approx 6.8%. CR went up around 100:1 which is almost 5%. A little less but not much.

The 2400:1 measure was out of the box and I'm sure the 2300:1 measure was using the same settings. I can't remember what I did exactly with regards to checking calibrated D65 settings, but my Colorfacts sensor had wandered out of calibration so wasn't 100% accurate when I had the H77.

I maxed the RGB gains and added filters to remove the green/blue excess, and measured 2600:1, sometimes higher, but with the H78, I'm reading 2700:1 at D65, so perhaps the 100:1 gain is being conservative since the H77 I had may have been above D65.

If I had the new CF sensor when I had the H77, I could have taken readings at D65 with and without filters to for a more accurate comparison.

Gary.

Can anyone explain to me how to properly use the black and white calibration function. I ran black with a black window and white with 100 ire, and now it doesnt look quiet right. I'm seeing what I think is color seperation in the image, mostly in back round images. Any help would be apreciated, or if all ADC settings are the same on all units if some one could give me thier defaults that'd help too. I'm hoping I didn't screw this thing up, If I did, can I send it back to Optoma and have it re-calibrated ?

Thanks

Do most of the online retailers carry inventory of these? As quickly as the market changes, I can't imagine they carry to big an inventory.

Not so. I just bought my H77 a couple of weeks ago from one of the sponsors of this site. The sales person I talked to told me that they had 300 of the H77's in stock, but only 2 of the H79's. I think it will be a couple of months before they sell all that old stock and start to sell the upgraded H77's.

Thanks Tom.............

Please let us know when we can get an RMA to send in the current H77's and a serial number break for the upgrades would also be terrific!

Tom, does the H77 have the same type of Gamma curve settings that you are discussing over in the H31 thread?

Gary thanks for posting your lumens and CR readings.... With the filters are you running in High lamp mode or low?

I understand the BenQ8700+ that I have runs around 420 calibrated so it seems that my 8700+ is very close to the H77 when running in Low lamp mode.... That bodes well for my vacation setting because I will have more ambient light to deal with in that installation.

With some ambient light am I going to be better off with something like the SilverStar for a screen paired with the H77?

HiHo',

I'm running in low lamp on an 84" wide screen. I'm getting around 425 lumens in low lamp, which is reduced by around 15% I think - 11% for the fl-day and 4% for the skylight 1b, but I'll have to check. That leaves me around 15ft lamberts which is more than enough for me - I prefer 12 and can live with much less (I thought 4ft lamberts form the HT1000 with two filters looked great).

if ambient light is going to be present, a grey screen with gain will help a lot - the grey will give a better black bass to start with as the ambient will otherwise wash it out, and the gain will help reflect ambient back to the source, as well as more pj light back to the viewer.

I found trhe SS to have a kind of structure to it - some say a 'sheen' so I don't know if you'll like it or not. It has plenty of gain to help reduce the effect of ambient light though. On the other hand, having seen a demo of the Stewart Firehawk and Studiotek130 side by side in a room streaming with ambient light, the Firehawk did an amazing job, whereas the ST130 looked washed out with no detail.

So, my choice would be a grey screen with gain, but try to get a demo so you can make up your own mind as to which route you'd prefer to go.

Gary.

hi,

some screenshots of my H77 upgraded H78 --> http://perso.wanadoo.fr/nicolas.phil/fr/screen_H78.html

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
With some ambient light am I going to be better off with something like the SilverStar for a screen paired with the H77? Not just any gray screen. A firehawk is the bomb IMO. I really like mine, a lot (110", about 16' throw) If you see one beside the ST130 for example, with some ambient light, you'll want one.

Nico, thanks for the shots, looks good. Haven't seen you around here in awhile. What image settings are you using (Film/Video/TV ?) and what gamma? Some of your previous settings worked well on my machine.

Regards,
Anthony

Nico - those are definitely some great shots! What screen are you using?

Steve - I'm running a Da-Lite HP, and I will concur that the more gain you have, the more artifacts you see.

Later,
Bill

It will be longer than that now because of the upgraded model and everybody will be waiting. Reminds me of the Samsung DLP firmware revisions and everybody trying to make sure they got new stock. I think that was probably a nightmare for Samsung and retailers. No good deed goes unpunished you know. Optoma might wish they offered this fix for free when this is said and done.

I probably won't be in the market for a couple of months so I hope this is cleared up by then. And I sure hope they still decide to do the upgrade across the board on the new ones that come out, but if every dealer gets questions about serial numbers and revision levels I'm not too optimistic.

Originally posted by phisch
I think it will be a couple of months before they sell all that old stock and start to sell the upgraded H77's.

"Tom, does the H77 have the same type of Gamma curve settings that you are discussing over in the H31 thread?"

Yes the Image area options will give you 5 new gammas each for each Film/video//PC option. Don't just stick with film try PC and video than adjust the Picture menu gamma to suit.

Figure late next week or the week after for the go ahead on the RMA's.

"Optoma might wish they offered this fix for free when this is said and done."
You're not the first the mention it s/b free.

Realistically how could the (upgrade) be for free when it cost a small price from where it originated. If it was done here for free the Euro guys would be up in arms.

This isn't considered a fix. In Europe they got something from Ti that worked with Engineers to better the chips function for PAL. This was going to be added to the line and the Model # would be different (H78). The upgrade cost them some money and would work on the previous H77's so they offered it out for a small fee, $150 if anybody wanted it. Seems like a good thing to me. :)

Here I told the US engineer that users tried the upgrade and it betters NTSC also with less dither motion. He got the goods from Taiwan, tried it here and agrees it helps so they'll offered it out. Another good thing :)

We shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. :)

Thanks should go to the Euro affiliate for PAL users which led to the discovery with Ti.
jmo

Yeah Tom, delete that post :eek: .

I got it in time, before someone quoted it. Lets hope they get rolling late this week.

That would be great Tom.:)

I think it's great that there is going to be an upgrade available and I want to thank all involved in making it happen. I too have recently been able to view a lot of the panning and it's somewhat distracting. What I don't agree on is in having to pay for the upgrade. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Optoma already do a firmware to correct the first panning issues? I thought so. I'm sorry but the warranty should cover it, isn't that what a warranty is supposed to do? Just my .02.

Joe

Ugh, re-read my post five posts back.

Originally posted by jdmont
I think it's great that there is going to be an upgrade available and I want to thank all involved in making it happen. I too have recently been able to view a lot of the panning and it's somewhat distracting. What I don't agree on is in having to pay for the upgrade. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Optoma already do a firmware to correct the first panning issues? I thought so. I'm sorry but the warranty should cover it, isn't that what a warranty is supposed to do? Just my .02.

Joe I'm inclined to go with "it's a fix". The fact that Euro users have to pay for it dosen't make it an upgrade. It's not like adding a upgraded long throw lens. But since it is a hardware upgrade, I'd agree it's gray area. At least I'd think they need to give it a new model name. Then they can rationalize the charge by saying the cost isnt' a "fix" to the H77, but a charge to "upgrade" to the H78. And then one would have more selling power for a used unit, too. But since the only thing that changed on the "upgrade" is they "fixed" the H77, well I'm back at "it's a fix".

Either way, compare the cost of the "upgrade" plus the current price of a new H77. Add to that a av-rs232 before the powerbuy is over (pardon me), and you'll have a fine setup that's still way, WAY below the cost of competing units (by thousands).

But, in either case, the place to squeak isn't here, it's to Optoma. The only attention you'll get from Optoma here is whatever Tom consolodates and passes along to Wing at Optoma as the "buzz" on AVS. Squeaking directly might at least be heard more directly. They may be no more likely to oil you, then again who knows.... ;)

GetGray

You're right my squeaking did work cause Optoma just offered to upgrade me to an H79 for a very small price. I'm taking them up on the offer and I'm shipping them the H77 tomorrow. Good chatting with you, I'll see you in the H79 thread.

They really didn't want to add the Euro items what ever they were, it is for the PAL signal. Nothings set in stone here, if there's a logistics problem brewing who knows maybe they're drop the idea.

Originally posted by jdmont
GetGray

You're right my squeaking did work cause Optoma just offered to upgrade me to an H79 for a very small price. I'm taking them up on the offer and I'm shipping them the H77 tomorrow. Good chatting with you, I'll see you in the H79 thread.

Do you know if the upgrade to H79 will be offered to other H77 owners?

Bruno

Originally posted by bgosselin
Do you know if the upgrade to H79 will be offered to other H77 owners?

Bruno Ditto what I told jdmont. How in the world would he know?? Call Optoma, squeak to them. This isn't Optoma customer service. There is no person here that can give a definative answer to that question. Everything here is at best opinion, speculation, or heresay. ;)

I called Optoma technical support to get to the bottom of this. The person there told me that as of now H78 is strictly for Europe and there's no plan to offer the "H78 fix" here. Even if they did, he said there was no way it would be offered for $150 (let alone for free), because the "fix" requires hardware replacement, labor and shipping back to the customer.

Since "officially" there's no "fix" he wouldn't even speculate as to the cost if it ever became available but the way he talked I got the impression that it would be much much more than $150.

I got the impression that Optoma *doesn't* want to address the horizontal pan issue on the H77 and instead would rather steer people towards the H79 (just my take-the Optoma rep never clearly admitted it was still an issue with the H77 claiming the December-released firmware was released to address this very issue).

BTW, the price Optoma quoted me for H77 to H79 upgrade was $3000 (I assume it's OK to post since it's a manufacturer's price). I respectfully declined. Come to think of it, H77 + "fix" makes it hard to justify the extra dough for the H79, HD3 or not, so I don't see why Optoma would have an incentive to release the "fix".

I personally think it's a sad day when a "technology" company withholds an improvement for marketing purposes but this is capitalism I guess!

They told me I could ship it to Europe for the "fix" but said if I did then they wouldn't be able to warranty the PJ anymore :rolleyes: . Projection Design upgrades their DC2 models to their Dark Chip 3 model (MKIII) for a little less than $900. Wish Optoma USA would offer a similiar program.

Well boys & girls......................

My .02 is that rather than complaining about the $150 we should be "thrilled" that Optoma would offer the fix........ To me this is what Customer Service is all about.... yes fix versus upgrade is an honorable debate........ but heck for $150 on this level of a projector.... take it and run!

Let's just hope that Tom can keep them from changing their minds......... again.

Isn't that a little premature? And this is the kind of thing I was talking about a few posts back.

Originally posted by brotherman
I called Optoma technical support to get to the bottom of this.

Originally posted by turls
Isn't that a little premature? And this is the kind of thing I was talking about a few posts back.

How is this premature? What is this "kind of thing" that you speak of? I made a call, got the facts straight from the horse's mouth and shared what I was told with the forum. I made it very clear to the Optoma person (who was very eager to spend time on the phone with me) that I got my info from this forum and he was already well familiar, not only with the forum but with this very thread.

The first post on this was 5/3 and it said the actual program was 1-2 weeks away. That was about 4 business days ago. It wouldn't be the first time a tech support guy said he had all the info and it was found out later they were mistaken. In this case that is magnified by it not even being more than a few days from the initial news.

It may be DOA, but I'll give it a few more days.

Tell you what, I'm sure not purchasing a H77 without the fix in place if they want to play hardball. Hope they read that.

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
Well boys & girls......................

My .02 is that rather than complaining about the $150 we should be "thrilled" that Optoma would offer the fix........ To me this is what Customer Service is all about.... yes fix versus upgrade is an honorable debate........ but heck for $150 on this level of a projector.... take it and run!

Let's just hope that Tom can keep them from changing their minds......... again.

Does such an upgrade exist? Who actually suggested the price of $150 for an upgrade? Is this fact or speculation? Thanks

Originally posted by Gary Lightfoot

if ambient light is going to be present, a grey screen with gain will help a lot - the grey will give a better black bass to start with as the ambient will otherwise wash it out, and the gain will help reflect ambient back to the source, as well as moredon't know if you'll like it or not. It has plenty of gain to help reduce the effect of ambient light though. On the other hand, having seen a demo of the Stewart Firehawk and Studiotek130 side by side in a room streaming with ambient light, the Firehawk did an amazing job, whereas the ST130 looked washed out with no detail.


Gary.

What would you suggest for a screen if the room was a totally light controlled room ? Would the Studiotek130 be the best option with the H77 or H79 or would you recommend an other screen. I have not been able to find any demo's yet of these screens. Thanks

What would you suggest for a screen if the room was a totally light controlled room ? Would the Studiotek130 be the best option with the H77 or H79 or would you recommend an other screen. I have not been able to find any demo's yet of these screens. Thanks


I have been testing numerous screen samples for the past several days with my H77 and the Studiotek is one of 3 that I have narrowed it down to. I have a total light controlled room, and the Studiotek really stands out in regard to colors and clean whites. The Firehawk sample that I have also looked very good, so if you have any ambient light then the Firehawk is a good choice.

Originally posted by phisch
I have been testing numerous screen samples for the past several days with my H77 and the Studiotek is one of 3 that I have narrowed it down to. I have a total light controlled room, and the Studiotek really stands out in regard to colors and clean whites. The Firehawk sample that I have also looked very good, so if you have any ambient light then the Firehawk is a good choice.

What was your third choice ? How did the black levels and contrast compare with the Studiotek and the Firehawk in your room ? Is there a very noticeable difference ?

Tubby,

The only accurate information we have from inside Optoma is what Tom has reported. Most of the "worker bee's" inside Optoma have not been informed as to what the company policy is going to be, so hassling them I think might be counter-productive at this point (IMHO).

Supposedly Mr. Wing was supposed to have this project ironed out in a couple of weeks, so I would stand pat and see what happens..., if nothing happens in a few weeks, then it might be time to blow the trumpets and march around the walls.

The $150 price I believe comes from a conversion of the charge that Optoma Europe is charging for the H77/H78 upgrade.

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
The only accurate information we have from inside Optoma is what Tom has reported. Most of the "worker bee's" inside Optoma have not been informed as to what the company policy is going to be, so hassling them I think might be counter-productive at this point (IMHO).

Steve - I wholeheartedly agree! Something about an aphorism involving vinegar, honey and their differential effectiveness in capturing insects comes to mind...

Later,
Bill

Goodmorning,
Nothings really changed from last Tuesday when I got the lastest info from Wing. (working on a device to talk to a circuit board with the H77) I'll get an update this morning if he's available.

What was your third choice ? How did the black levels and contrast compare with the Studiotek and the Firehawk in your room ? Is there a very noticeable difference ?

The Carada Brilliant White. Side by side, the Carada was almost indistinguishable from the Studiotek - same colors and black level. The Firehawk only had better blacks when I introduced ambient light into the room. With ambient light the Firehawk was the best sample. With no ambient light, the BW and Studiotek was better with the best whites.

The person I spoke with yesterday at Optoma was very familiar with the H77->H78 upgrade issue so I doubt it's a case of the queen bee not informing the worker bees, but it's possible the logistics haven't trickled down yet and Optoma's support is less informed than Tom:confused:

The major reason I had called was to look into the possibility of upgrading to the H79 since someone else here posted that Optoma offered to do so for a "small" fee. They quoted me $3000 for the upgrade which is not small by any stretch-double standards based on the original purchase price maybe?

Assuming there's never a fix for the H77, what happens if I take my USA-purchased H77 to Europe? Will it have trouble working with PAL or will it work but with problems? Since this is a real possibility in the next 12 months, I'd appreciate any info.

Originally posted by brotherman
The person I spoke with yesterday at Optoma was very familiar with the H77->H78 upgrade issue so I doubt it's a case of the queen bee not informing the worker bees, but it's possible the logistics haven't trickled down yet and Optoma's support is less informed than Tom:confused:

The major reason I had called was to look into the possibility of upgrading to the H79 since someone else here posted that Optoma offered to do so for a "small" fee. They quoted me $3000 for the upgrade which is not small by any stretch-double standards based on the original purchase price maybe?

Assuming there's never a fix for the H77, what happens if I take my USA-purchased H77 to Europe? Will it have trouble working with PAL or will it work but with problems? Since this is a real possibility in the next 12 months, I'd appreciate any info.

Your projector will work fine with NTSC as well. Gary already use his H78 at 60hz that is what we do in america. I ask to upgrade mine in europe but was told by Gary that Themescene was not going to upgrade USA machine on top of the PAL one. Working with Optoma USA seem to be the only option we have.

The 3000$ for an upgrade is what I was quote a few months ago. It was too much a cost to upgrade then and it's still too much now. (for me anyway)

Bruno

Brotherman..........

If you are able to upgrade your H77 here in the states to the H78 spec. I would "guess" that it would work great in Europe... as the main motivation behind this upgrade was developed to help out those folks in Europe having problems.

I might be shooting myself in the foot here but I'm putting this out for all to read. I called Optoma yesterday and spoke to technical. I expressed to them my disappointment with the panning artifacts that appear to be very visible in my one month old H77. I then asked them what my options were. I was put on hold and moments later I was told that their H79 model does not have the panning issues that the H77 does and If I wanted to I could upgrade to the H79 model for $2500.

The reason I'm putting this out is because if I'm getting a better price than others out there who are not satisfied with their H77 and have the money to upgrade then they should get the same deal I got.

Joe

Oddly enough, Joe's number seems to be the difference in street prices from my research.

Tom - If Wing wants a (friendly) guinea pig, I'm wide open to being without mine for a week or so.

Later,
Bill

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
Brotherman..........

If you are able to upgrade your H77 here in the states to the H78 spec. I would "guess" that it would work great in Europe... as the main motivation behind this upgrade was developed to help out those folks in Europe having problems.

Thanks. Let's assume for a moment that the H78 upgrade is not offered here in the US and I am stuck with my latest (as of now) firmware, H77. What kind of problems should I expect if I try to use it in Europe with a PAL source?

Wings been busy I had to call his cell phone. Anyway he's still working on the device to talk to the internals of the H77. He said two weeks tops, maybe one week. But the H78 update will definitely be made available here. So from me, forget what the Phone tech guys may happen to say.

I'd like to ask the H77 faithful in the US to be patient for another week or two rather than continuing to contact Optoma about the H78 upgrade. I have been following this thread since July, 2004 and in that time, Tom and his contacts at Optoma including Wing have never failed to deliver. Thus, I'm happy to wait another 2 weeks on Tom's word that we will get an upgrade to the H78 and that it will fix the panning issue.

I really like the picture on my H77. I have been bothered by the panning artifact on occasion, but see it as about the onlly problem on an otherwise great product. If I can resolve that problem for $150 rather than spending $2.5K-$3K for an upgrade to the H79, I will be all over it.

Thanks for helping us out Tom.

Ira

Originally posted by guitarman
Wings been busy I had to call his cell phone. Anyway he's still working on the device to talk to the internals of the H77. He said two weeks tops, maybe one week. But the H78 update will definitely be made available here. So from me, forget what the Phone tech guys may happen to say.

Maybe this was already asked but what is that box for ? talk to the inside of the H77/H79 ?. Sound like a rs232 thing ?. Also since that would mean putting in alot of time into a already
build/finished product does this mean the box is made not only for the H79 but also for its followup (say end of the year, say with a 1080 chip). Seems that the basic H79 design is pretty stable so does make sense to use it.

Daniel.

I got the impression they have to open up the box and work directly on parts inside the projector, not a rs232.

brotherman..........

Looks like if you standby for a couple of weeks you will be able to get your H77 modified here......... if you are going to Europe before that.... you can always take your projector with you and have ThemeScene in Europe convert it over to the H78.

Assuming I can get it upgraded one way or another, I'll be a happy camper. I guess running a straight H77 (w/o H78 fix) is a bad idea in Europe? Any idea about the specific issues or any existing threads about the subject?

Originally posted by phisch
The Carada Brilliant White. Side by side, the Carada was almost indistinguishable from the Studiotek - same colors and black level. The Firehawk only had better blacks when I introduced ambient light into the room. With ambient light the Firehawk was the best sample. With no ambient light, the BW and Studiotek was better with the best whites.

Thanks Phisch,

It sounds like the Carada Brilliant White is the way to go for a totally light controlled room. Much cheaper than the Studiotek and same performance.

Originally posted by brotherman
Assuming I can get it upgraded one way or another, I'll be a happy camper. I guess running a straight H77 (w/o H78 fix) is a bad idea in Europe? Any idea about the specific issues or any existing threads about the subject?

Well bad would depends on if you feel the problems with it are big, Alot of us have owned a H77 for months (i have about 800h on the bulb). The point is the H78 is a _cheap_ upgrade and its good value so there is no reason not todo it since well its checked, calibrated, more light, more cr and less panning why would you not do it for 1/3 of a bulb price ?

Daniel.

Originally posted by danielo
Well bad would depends on if you feel the problems with it are big, Alot of us have owned a H77 for months (i have about 800h on the bulb). The point is the H78 is a _cheap_ upgrade and its good value so there is no reason not todo it since well its checked, calibrated, more light, more cr and less panning why would you not do it for 1/3 of a bulb price ?

Daniel.

I'd do it in a heartbeat if it becomes available here in the US. My move to Europe hasn't been finalized yet and it could be as long as 12 months away. My fear is that in a year from now the upgrade may no longer be available, even in Europe. Hopefully it will happen here in the US. Thanks for the info.

*whistling*

Well? Is it ready yet? :)

(The H79 review is up on WSR, btw)

Brotherman,

according to Optoma UK, there is no limit on the H78 upgrade since it's a payed for upgrade, and not a freebie, so you should be OK.

Gary.

Originally posted by Gary Lightfoot
Brotherman,

according to Optoma UK, there is no limit on the H78 upgrade since it's a payed for upgrade, and not a freebie, so you should be OK.

Gary.

Thanks for the info Gary.

*cough*

H78 news? Anyone?

:)

Not yet as far as I know. I told him to call me when they're ready.

Tom - Mine needs to go back (measured it at 29dB using my SPL meter -- not bad, but noticeably louder than spec), so I think I'll try to get this in one fell swoop.

Later,
Bill

Measured where? I don't think you're suppose to calculate it directly from the exhaust vent. More like a viewing area.

Anyway in Gregs WSR or the H79 he stated he got 50db with his sound meter C/weighted 12" from the exhaust area. Fan sound was unusually quiet in both bulb levels. The quietest projector he's ever reviewed.

No call about the H78 upgrade today. Since Wings out of town now it would be a good idea to call into the tech area next week for an update. I know he pushed to get things rolling before he left.

Tom - It was actually 51dB @ 3in off-axis (other side of exhaust), which equates to 29dB @ 1m. Most sound measurements are typically specified at 1m, which is why I gave that number for comparison to spec. The Optoma guys are going to swap it out, so I am just holding off pending the release of the H78.

That being said, 29dB isn't bad, but it's not the whisper that it should be.

Later,
Bill

can someone who hasn't changed thier ADC settings from factory, from a C17 firmeware unit post thier settings for me. Since I ran black and white calibration my pic doesn't look right. I'm seeing what I think is a contouring problem, where shades of a color dont shade smoothly from light to dark (like that U-571 screen shot ) Any help would be appreciated since I'm being told from Optoma tech support that it will be a couple days since they can get them from one of thier machiens.

If you found the fan loud in your viewing area that would be unusual. My hearing isn't top notch :) I can't hear a thing in Normal mode. Lets see what DB tests you get with the new one? Keep calling the tech area early next week. Lets hope they're ready to go.

Hey I have a meter, you were 3" away from the closed lens side of the PJ?

Plenty of settings here.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=522807

For contouring try lowering the CWI a couple of numbers.

would the H79 settings be the same as the h77's ?

Originally posted by guitarman
Hey I have a meter, you were 3" away from the closed lens side of the PJ?

Tom - You got it. I have a mid-grade RatShack special SPL meter, so 50dB is the softest sound I can measure reliably (if this thing is reliable, that is). If you don't have access to a Freshman Fizix book, I can e-mail you an excel spreadsheet (or just post it here...). The trick is in getting the distance as exact as possible, since minor variations will have a somewhat significant impact on the resulting number (that whole logarithm thing helps mitigate measurement errors somewhat).

Later,
Bill

Originally posted by guitarman
If you found the fan loud in your viewing area that would be unusual. My hearing isn't top notch :) I can't hear a thing in Normal mode. Lets see what DB tests you get with the new one? Keep calling the tech area early next week. Lets hope they're ready to go.

Hey I have a meter, you were 3" away from the closed lens side of the PJ?

Tom - I found the file, so here you go. I won't guarantee the math on the conversions, but they seem to agree with my dusty textbooks.

Later,
Bill

Noticed that my settings for HD in the picture menu is the same for the DVD. Was under the impression that they could each be set individually. Seemed to be the case when I first got the set but now if I program the DVD input the HD is the same. Both use the component input.

jayray - Huh? What HD and DVD input? If both are coming in via the RCA component input, then you need to use the bright/vivid/cinema(?) memories to give you different settings for each source. Of course, you will also need to select memories manually when you want to change which source you are using.

Later,
Bill

So, any news on the H78 upgrade front. I thought we were suppose to find out by now.

Ok folks. Thanks in large part to your collective comments and experiences, I now have my H77 up and running, and it looks awesome. I'm now trying to maximize the setup excellence and have run into some issues with which I hope you can assist me. FYI, I've done lots of searches and found some info, but nothing that addresses this directly.

MOUNTING/TILT ISSUES:
The mount had to be placed almost a foot above the screen and about 9 inches off center. I started using the shifts and keystones to correct/square the image, but frankly I'm not sure I followed the right steps. What is the recommended process here? The manual does little more than explain very basically what the various buttons do.

For example, should I tilt the projector down to center the image then use the optical up/down to fine tune, or shift down to the maximum amount to limit the amount of manual tilt? Is this an excessive amount of distance to shift the image?

MOUNTING/OFF CENTER ISSUES
The 9 inch off center problem was mitigated using keystone, but again I'm not sure I did the right steps. I got a relatively square image as a result, but still had some distortion at the corners.

Again, what is the correct procedure for making these adjustments? Is 9 inches off center that big a deal?

UNEVEN BARS w/2.35 AR
The image for 2.35 films is above center. I also notice when I zoom the image in or out it stays pretty much flush with the top of the screen and expands contracts the other three sides. Is this normal, or a product of my whacked keystone/offset corrections?

Is there a tutorial or reference I can go to to walk through the steps for best practices on image correction?

Thanks,

Greg

Greg - I have "squared" all of my projectors, so I do not know whether what you are describing is a result of using excessive keystoning or not, but it sure sounds like it. Unfortunately, the best practice is not to use keystone correction if at all possible, so there's probably not really a "best practice" in that regard.

Some thoughts:
1) "Shim" the projector so that it is angled downwards and towards the screen a bit. Then, make complementary adjustments to the screen to remove as much of the distortion as possible. Essentially, you are "squaring" the projector and screen, just not using the obvious planar references.

2) See if you can't find a different mounting schema. Some thoughts include putting the projector in an armoir, coffee table or other piece of furniture. Alternatively, you can set it on top of a table when you want to use it, and put it away when you are done (complicates wiring somewhat).

And that, unfortunately, is it. As I said, I don't have a lot of experience here, but these are some of the ideas folks have posted.

Later,
Bill

Has anyone else noticed that when inputting a 1080i 4:3 horizontally stretched to 16x9 image into the H77/H79 and then you select "WINDOWBOX" from the format menu that nothing happens??? It doesn't squeeze the image horizontally to get the correct AR for 4:3 like it does with 720P and the others.

Has this been mentioned before and I just missed or forgot about this issue?

Can someone else try this and post what your results are?

Dave:

I saw this behavior once, but found it was my (just dropped off) HD STB misconfigured for 4:3. So I reconfigured and it was OK. I have one HD channel (Odd one, Turner HD or something - I never watch it) from Comcast that comes in stretched, and needs pillarboxing. It is at 1080i from the STB and I can press the "4:3" button (Window mode) for my AV-RS232 and the PJ instantly provides the requsite pillarboxes.

I have that STB set to "480i passthrough off" and now that I think of it, set at 720p out, so I guess mine's not like your case after all. I figured having the STB downscale 1080i to 720p would be better than having it upconvert 720 material to 1080i then the PJ downsample to 720p (which is what I believe would happen for 720p broadcast channels). The Comcast box needs a setting that says, just send out what came in, but the most you can get out of it is 2 resolutions (or 1 depending on the 480i passthru setting).

I'll try to remember to set mine to 1080i and test it for you though. I thought you were running a DVDO? I keep trying to talk myself into getting one and picking up a RP82 and modding it for SDI selling my 3910..... what a hobby... :D

So, any news on the H78 upgrade front. I thought we were suppose to find out by now.

I talked with the Tech area yesterday. They're not ready yet and Wing is off to Taiwan for a couple of weeks. I was afraid they wouldn't get squared away before he left. We'll have to wait for Wing to get back.

Greg,
At least use the lens shift as low a possible. How about a plank up on the ceiling so you can center up the lens. Like if your ceiling studs are running the wrong way, stretch a plank between them. You couldn't get the projector any lower?

Couple of more weeks, huh? Sounds like I get to pay for shipping twice. Oh, well.

Later,
Bill

Ugh, that's right you sent yours in because the fan sound is loud. How's that going anyway?

Ok, delays on the retrofit logistics are understandable, but in the meantime is there any way to find out when/if new units are going to have this fix/upgrade/enhancement incorporated? They surely aren't going to crank out units indefinitely without the fix now that its going on a month (or so) since they committed to retrofit?

They are not going to get the potential PR benefit from this without coming out with more concrete details about the fix especially for new boxes . . . and the longer the delay is the more likely it will backfire like it has for other companies that talk too soon about stuff--no matter how well intentioned.

My advice buy it now. You may not even be bothered by anything. Send it in for the latest down the road if you want.

At the price they are now I'd be tempted but I'm still a few months from my HT being ready anyway. If they won't commit one way or the other on new units maybe they are afraid of people returning "non-enhanced" ones or bugging dealers about serial numbers. But they could still mitigate that by just saying they are going to incorporate the fix but not saying when.

It's a bugger alright.
I suggest Optoma just sells dealers the H77. Make the H78 an optional factory upgrade for anybody that may think they need it. That would end the speculation worries.

Ugh, that's right you sent yours in because the fan sound is loud. How's that going anyway?

It's still working great, it's just a bit north of quiet enough to be right next to my ear. I'm going to send it in after the holiday and get it swapped out. The upgrade will have to wait.

Later,
Bill

Does the H77 have a "horizontal" lens shift or only vertical? I was thinking it was just vertical...

Greg099.... your zoom is doing exactly what mine is on my BenQ 8700+. When I zoom the image to make it larger, the top of the image stays exactly where it is... and the other three sides all expand. I think with a fixed lens offset this is the way it has to be geometrically. If you want to change the top line you have to either move the projector up, down, in or out... depending on which way you are trying to move it. But then Trig class was a "long time ago in a galaxy far far away........."

Does the H77 have a "horizontal" lens shift or only vertical? I was thinking it was just vertical...

Greg099.... your zoom is doing exactly what mine is on my BenQ 8700+. When I zoom the image to make it larger, the top of the image stays exactly where it is... and the other three sides all expand. I think with a fixed lens offset this is the way it has to be geometrically. If you want to change the top line you have to either move the projector up, down, in or out... depending on which way you are trying to move it. But then Trig class was a "long time ago in a galaxy far far away........."


The H77 only has a vertical lens shift. There is horizontal keystone, but you will want to avoid using that if possible.

Went to Star Wars in the theater last week. I always believed the Holy Grail of HT was getting closer to the theater experience. Well having seen Star Wars on film after seeing the second episode on my H77, I can now say that I have reached the "ultimate level". Come to think of it, I have surpassed that experience. The colours were muted, images were soft and noise in the theater was distracting. Sure feels nice.

I was totally impressed with the H77 when I first viewed it. They played T2 on a JVC D-vhs deck. First thing that hit me was the blacks and the vivid red color. The H77 is much stronger in red over my HT1000 or buget Optoma models. Oh green isn't too shabby either.
enjoy

Hi everyone!

I'm seriously thinking about picking up one of these H77's given the reviews and
recent price drops. I just have a few concerns and was hoping to get some
comments:

1) Should I wait until this motion artifact "ugrade" is available from Optoma?
Is it certain this will be available at some point in the future?

2) What is this "synch issue" that I've heard mentioned? Something about
taking a long time to lock on to a DSS signal when channel surfing? Does
it happen on all inputs? How prevalent is it really?

3) Has anyone noticed the "rainbox effect" with this unit? My brother-in-law
has a Dreamwever projector (I don't know the model #) and I found the
rainbows very annoying.

Thanks for the input.

dkuster - Here are my thoughts on your questions:
1) The upgrade is still not official in the US, and will most likely not be released until after Tom's buddy Wing is back in the country. Expect another month for this one.

2) The projector does not "lock on" to changing resolutions very quickly. If you feed it a constant signal (e.g., with your source units feeding it 720p, or using an outboard scaler), then it is fine. Since I don't tend to surf anyway, this really isn't an issue for me.

3) The "rainbow effect" differs in severity for each person and each projector. I still see rainbows occasionally, but they are not distracting.

Later,
Bill

Thanks, Ursa, for sharing your thoughts.

Regarding the synch issue, if I have my DSS box set up to output 1080i
then is it really changing resolutions when moving between the on screen
guide and different channels? I dunno. It seems like this problem might
be set-top-box dependent?

My understanding of the rainbow effect is that it's less and less prevalent
with higher speed color wheels and with more color wheel segments. From
the specs on this unit it seems like it should be fairly immune, but it sounds
like you can still see them.

Regarding the synch issue, if I have my DSS box set up to output 1080i
then is it really changing resolutions when moving between the on screen
guide and different channels? I dunno. It seems like this problem might
be set-top-box dependent?

If you leave your STB to output 1080i, then the projector will see a constant resolution, so synching will not be a problem. If you leave your STB on "native", and you bounce between a lot of SD and HD channels, then you will notice the issue more.

My understanding of the rainbow effect is that it's less and less prevalent
with higher speed color wheels and with more color wheel segments. From
the specs on this unit it seems like it should be fairly immune, but it sounds
like you can still see them.
Higher brightness and slower wheel speeds seem to emphasize the issue, while higher wheel speeds and lower brightness tend to alleviate them. Since I use my H77 with a small-ish High Power screen, I get the brightness enhancement. The wheel speed does moderate this somewhat. Also, you tend to acclimate to DLPs over time anyway, so most people seem to get to the point of not noticing sooner or later.

Dkuster,

I am very sensitive to rainbow and after 100 hours of use, I can rarely see it. Not one person who has seen this pj at my place has mentioned any artifact including rainbow. The H77 is an amazing pj even before I get it calibrated. I thought it would be a compromise from my 61" RPTV but my screen is 106" and as clear and more detailed than my calibrated CRT RPTV. It is hard to do better than the H77, you won't be disappointed.

For contouring try lowering the CWI a couple of numbers.

I have had my new H77 up and running for a couple of weeks now, and I have been able to watch a few movies with it and a do little calibration with DVE. The picture quality is excellent, although I have noticed a little contouring/banding briefly in a couple of the movies (at the beginning of Hellboy and one scene in finding Nemo where they are swimming through the mine field). I am going to try changing the CWI to try to eliminate the contouring, but I am not sure how much to change the setting. Is this a trial and error procedure, or is there an exact amount of change in the setting that takes care of the problem?

Also, when I first mounted the projector to the ceiling I used the vertical shift adjustment in the menu to align the image onto the screen, since the knob on the projector wasn't very responsive. Last night I tried to make another adjustment of the vertical shift in the menu, but it has dissappeared. Did I push a button on the projector or the remote that made the vertical shift option in the menu dissappear? Has this happened to anyone else?

Thanks, Mike

Mike - Pause your DVD player on a scene where you notice the banding -- the worse, the better. Then, write down what your initial CWI is. Then slowly walk the index down and see if the banding lessens. At some point, the banding should begin to increase again. It's hard to describe what happens with the image, but it's kind of fun to run the gamut. Leave the index value set on the value that gives you the least amount of banding.

Later,
Bill

Bill - Thanks for the help with the CWI adjustment.

Also, when I first mounted the projector to the ceiling I used the vertical shift adjustment in the menu to align the image onto the screen, since the knob on the projector wasn't very responsive. Last night I tried to make another adjustment of the vertical shift in the menu, but it has dissappeared. Did I push a button on the projector or the remote that made the vertical shift option in the menu dissappear? Has this happened to anyone else?

After experimenting with switching back and forth between component and DVI connections, I discovered that the vertical shift option in the menu exists only with the component connection. When switched to DVI, it is not possible to access the vertical shift in the menu. Why is this?

Is the shift fairly minimal? If so, it may just be blacking out the overscan and shifting the image on the panel where the overscan would have been located on a 1:1 mapping. That gives you about 3% top and bottom, so it would be a pretty minimal adjustment if I'm right. cool, but minimal.

Bill - Thanks for the help with the CWI adjustment.



After experimenting with switching back and forth between component and DVI connections, I discovered that the vertical shift option in the menu exists only with the component connection. When switched to DVI, it is not possible to access the vertical shift in the menu. Why is this?

The shifting features are mainly to eliminate TV signal border static. I see static at the top with TV channels and if shift isn't available then use the signal adjustment/vertical. Shift is just moving the image within the 1.85 frame, it's not usefull for screen setup. Well if viewing a 2.35DVD analog you could shift the image up and raise a rollup screen to eliminate the bars.

The shifting features are mainly to eliminate TV signal border static. I see static at the top with TV channels and if shift isn't available then use the signal adjustment/vertical. .

So if I watch TV over a DVI connection from my STB then I cannot shift the picture up to get rid of the little audio signal line at the top?

Steve - Change from 1:1 mapping to "16:9" mode to give you a little overscan correction.

Bill............

I am currently using a BenQ 8700+ and I don't recall seeing that setting....

The STB is an RCA DTC-210 and I have not seen that setting there either.

Steve - I was referring to the aspect ratio setting on the H77. I don't have a clue about the BenQ!

Later,
Bill

Bill............

I am currently using a BenQ 8700+ and I don't recall seeing that setting....

The STB is an RCA DTC-210 and I have not seen that setting there either.

Steve,

This is the Optoma H77 thread. If your problems are with the BenQ 8700+, then I suggest you post your questions/concerns over in a thread for that particular projector. This is for H77 issues only.

Thanks for your understanding. It keeps the thread on topic and easier to read and understand for all the new H77 owners. Not that this HUGE THREAD is easy to read anyway, hehehe;)!!!

The shifting features are mainly to eliminate TV signal border static. I see static at the top with TV channels and if shift isn't available then use the signal adjustment/vertical. Shift is just moving the image within the 1.85 frame, it's not usefull for screen setup. Well if viewing a 2.35DVD analog you could shift the image up and raise a rollup screen to eliminate the bars.Well, another palce it woudl be useful is to center the image for a letterboxed aspect. The H79 slightly chops off the top few lines when in letterbox mode via DVI. Be nice to be alb eto shift that down and center the chopping from the top and bottom.

Another place the shift is usefull is if you are using an anamorphic lens that slightly shifts the image. THis could make up for it, but again, you can't use it in DVI mode, and DVI at 1:1 IMO is the best signal for this PJ.

Something for the wish list...

But for the original poster, you are correct, you cannot shift the DVI sourced image. Your only option to remove broadcast noise lines is to choose the 16:9 aspect which provides a little overscan. If that dosen't privide enough you're SOL, or get an external scaler that can do it before it goes to the PJ.

Your only option to remove broadcast noise lines is to choose the 16:9 aspect which provides a little overscan. If that dosen't privide enough you're SOL, or get an external scaler that can do it before it goes to the PJ.

Yes, but then you're adding the H77's internal scaler, defeating the reason you have an upconverting DVD player, HD box or scaler set to the native resolution of the H77.

Yes, but then you're adding the H77's internal scaler, defeating the reason you have an upconverting DVD player, HD box or scaler set to the native resolution of the H77.Yep, choose your evil. I suppose the image shift would not invoke the scaler. In any case I agree that would be the preference, not the workaround.

Dave: Not to get too far OT, don't you have a SDI player and a scaler to feed your H79? Or did you get the PioElite? I'm looking at getting a SDI box and just wondered which DVD combination you were using if any (with the H79 to keep it on-topic :))

Signal adjustment is always there to eliminate video noise. Mainly noise is at the top, if not then yes 16.9, or digital zoom, digital shift if available. You never SOL. :)

HI everyone,

Well I have 670 Hours on the H77 and have not had any issues with it yet. Its still throwing a great picture.

With my system I run in through a Poineer 59Avi DVD player with SDI output into a DVDO HD processor with SDI input, then out to the H77 via DVI cable(30ft) and a 119" Da-lite Cinema Contour 1.3 gain fixed wall screen.

Steve

Yep, choose your evil. I suppose the image shift would not invoke the scaler. In any case I agree that would be the preference, not the workaround.


Thats why several external scaler companies are adding image shifts to their boxes.

Daniel.

Dave: Not to get too far OT, don't you have a SDI player and a scaler to feed your H79? Or did you get the PioElite? I'm looking at getting a SDI box and just wondered which DVD combination you were using if any (with the H79 to keep it on-topic :))

Yes, I used to have an SDI RP-91 and an iScan HD+ w/ SDI, but I sold them in favor of getting a Lumagen Vision HDP with SDI. I have had the Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi for a while now, so now I use 480i via HDMI to the Lumagen's DVI input and scale from there. I am considering also getting the 59AVi modded with SDI to do a quick comparison. For some reason, the 59 AVi can output YCbCr, the Lumagen can accept YCbCr as can the H79, but I can't get them to accept a YCbCr digital component signal from the 59 AVi's HDMI output. It only will detect digital RGB at 480i, which means it does a conversion in the 59AVi from YCbCr to RGB, which then sends it to the Lumagen which has to convert it back to YCbCr for it's processing. Anyone know how I can get the 59AVi to output YCbCr instead of RGB into the Lumagen/H79???

Now that you mention it, I have been experimenting for a few days with this setup and it's not totally finalized, but........

...Has anyone else with a Lumagen and H77/79 tried the Lumagen's 1080 24fs output mode with DVDs and/or 1080i HD??? Well I have and lo' and behold, the H79 syncs up to that resolution and so far looks phenomenal:)!!! The motion is smooth as silk and the image detail is better than anything I have seen on the H79. I am getting stuttering when inputting 1080i from cable like HBO-HD, etc., but 480i DVD and 1080i D-Theater's detail is ungodly:eek:!!!!! I know, 1080 is not the native resolution of the panel in the H79, but the enhancements must more than make up for it. I can't imagine this format on a 1080 projector:D!!! It looks as if I am watching the original film or something...grain and all. It really shows all the good and bad of each DVD I've seen so far, so the moral is a poorly mastered DVD will be revealed...to a fault. Good DVDs like The Fifth Element look amazing!!!

Whatever you do, don't watch original video (60/59.94 Hz) in this mode as the motion stutter is not good, as expected.

Can someone else with this combo try this mode out and give me their impressions? You have to give the Lumagen a few seconds to lock on to the cadence of the signal, so don't judge it immediately. It takes 1080i longer to lock in than 480i DVD.

I have a few more comments on it, but I want to wait until others try this as well and give feedback.

Do you think I should start a new thread on this for more exposure? It is that good...so far:)!!!

P.S. - I also tried it on a customer's Lumagen/Sony G90 combo and got unbelievable results yesterday:eek:!!!

Interesting Dave. I'll have to try that setting on my DVDO iScan HD and see what happens!!

Dave: very interesting.

The first thing that pops into my mind is that if you are sending 1080i to the H79, then you are using the H79 to both scale and deinterlace the 1080i signal to 720p. Surely the Lumagen's scaler/deinterlacer would be better for that task, no? If I understand you correctly, you are saying the H7x is doing a better job at the conversion from 1080i to 720p. 720p IS what you are looking at after all, by definition.

My objective was to remove all the scaling to one device (lumagen, DVDO, etc.) and do 1:1 mapping on the H7x, taking it's scaler out of the picture, too.

Another thread would probably be appropriate, since a lot of H7x owners won't be using scalers... maybe "Best scaler setup for the Optoma H7x"... If it's in the processor section, you (we) may get some good input from the scaler heavy hitters that don't do Optoma...

Cheers,
Scott

Is there any way to find the model of optoma (H77 OR H78) from menus or by serial number ?
I want to buy a new optoma 78 here in europe but i think there is no logo or number on case of the pj.

Originally posted by GetGray:
Dave: very interesting.

The first thing that pops into my mind is that if you are sending 1080i to the H79, then you are using the H79 to both scale and deinterlace the 1080i signal to 720p. Surely the Lumagen's scaler/deinterlacer would be better for that task, no? If I understand you correctly, you are saying the H7x is doing a better job at the conversion from 1080i to 720p. 720p IS what you are looking at after all, by definition.

Scott,

First of all, the signal with 1080 24sf is not 1080i. It is a frame of video that is segmented (the "sf" means "segmented frames"), not interlaced from what I understand. I need to do more research on 24sf though. I haven't done much with it to date. What the Lumagen is doing is giving you the 24sf mode output from the original 480i/1080i source. Similar to what 2:3 pulldown does, by extrapolating the original 24 frames of film. All the H79 is doing is scaling down from 1080 sf to 720 at 48Hz, which doubles the original 24 frames of film and gets rid of any interlaced artifacts and preserving the original 24 film frames as pristine as possible.

Is there any way to find the model of optoma (H77 OR H78) from menus or by serial number ?
I want to buy a new optoma 78 here in europe but i think there is no logo or number on case of the pj.
Maybe by serial number. The service menu on my H79 (if that's what it really is :)) says it's a H77.

Scott,

First of all, the signal with 1080 24sf is not 1080i. It is a frame of video that is segmented (the "sf" means "segmented frames"), not interlaced from what I understand. I need to do more research on 24sf though. I haven't done much with it to date. What the Lumagen is doing is giving you the 24sf mode output from the original 480i/1080i source. Similar to what 2:3 pulldown does, by extrapolating the original 24 frames of film. All the H79 is doing is scaling down from 1080 sf to 720 at 48Hz, which doubles the original 24 frames of film and gets rid of any interlaced artifacts and preserving the original 24 film frames as pristine as possible.OK, thanks for the clarification. So the lumagen won't do that AND downscale to 720p?

You can sort of do that if you set the Lumagen to 720p at 48Hz (47.952 actually), but then you don't get the full benefit of what the 1080 24sf gives you as I understand it. I did try 720p 48Hz, but from what I remember of it, it didn't look as good as 1080 24sf. As I said, I need to do some more testing, and this is one of the things I am going to do.

Steve,

This is the Optoma H77 thread. If your problems are with the BenQ 8700+, then I suggest you post your questions/concerns over in a thread for that particular projector. This is for H77 issues only.

Thanks for your understanding. It keeps the thread on topic and easier to read and understand for all the new H77 owners. Not that this HUGE THREAD is easy to read anyway, hehehe;)!!!

Well Dave.............

I guess you are confused by this huge thread.............

Bill's comment was in response to a question I asked Tom about concerning the H77 (which I am considering for a second HT in my vacation home).......... I assumed Bill's response was in regard to something specific to the H77 which is why I pointed out to him that I was currently using a different projector...

Before you turn up the flames, perhaps you should do a little "reading" first.

Is there any way to find the model of optoma (H77 OR H78) from menus or by serial number ?
I want to buy a new optoma 78 here in europe but i think there is no logo or number on case of the pj.

There is a sticker extra on the bottom that states ser. number and H78. I just got mine back and im 99% sure they added this sticker so they won't get confused themselfs. Also you can perform a extra check in the service menu it should state C17 atleast. The H79 has a extra 'darkchip' logo ontop.

Indeed the panning problem is _alot_ better not 100% gone but its improved alot with 720p signals.

Daniel.

Well Dave.............

I guess you are confused by this huge thread.............

Bill's comment was in response to a question I asked Tom about concerning the H77 (which I am considering for a second HT in my vacation home).......... I assumed Bill's response was in regard to something specific to the H77 which is why I pointed out to him that I was currently using a different projector...

Before you turn up the flames, perhaps you should do a little "reading" first.

Sorry Steve, I guess I did get confused in there somehow. I certainly didn't mean any harm or "flaming", that's why I made sure I used a "winky face"(;)) at the end so it would imply no big deal as I have gone off topic many times. I just thought that if his issues were with the 8700+, then he would get more and better response on that particular thread. As stated, I guess I misunderstood the whole exchange:(

Anyone else try the 1080 24PsF mode on their Lumagen yet???

Dave,

You weren't the only one who was confused and thought he was in the wrong thread. :p

Must be an age thing. :D

Gary.

Guys, is there any list of when the H78 uses what colourspace at which resolution.

I calibreated a h78, 720p and 1080i were ok, but 480 was way off, now either one is switching space, anyone a clue or link?

I rememer an issue when switching inputs or resync and colourspace changing?

Guitarman, what is going on with the H78 for americain customer? Any developpement?

Called Optoma Canada and they said any upgrade to the H78 would have to be sent to US. They do all other repairs at their Richmond Hill location just north of Toronto.

Called Optoma Canada and they said any upgrade to the H78 would have to be sent to US. They do all other repairs at their Richmond Hill location just north of Toronto.

I never really imagine I would be done in Canada. When I ask about repair when I purchase my H77 back in febuary they told me any repair would be done in the USA.

My question is still valid. Any news when it would be offered?

I have been looking around for a while and i think it is finally time to get a projector......the H77 has been at the top of my list since i have started looking..but then the toshiba mt700 came out...here is my situation....the projector will be in a mostly light controlled room but there will be a little bit of ambient light...looking at projecting on to a 77" da lite screen...so my biggest concern is will the h77 be bright enough....and right now there are some great deals on the h77 just check out the forum sponsor V***** A*** so this purchase will prolly be happening asap so if you could just give a little input on whether or not the light issue will be a problem and if it is worth the extra couple of bucks to get the h77 over the toshiba.. one more thing is that h78 update still gonna happen...thanks ahead of time....

I am also considering the H77, but I've decided that since I'd unfortunately be
buying it sight unseen that the upgrade to H78 must be available first in case
the motion artifact bug bothers me. I am sceptical this upgrade will ever
actually be available since every online vendor I've contacted says the H77
has been discontinued.

Also, while it's hard to wait I think it might be worthwhile to see what the
reviewers have to say about the BenQ 8720 once it's released...

I've seen the mt700 for a few hours last night. Personnaly I think my H77 even if I'm really sensitive to the panning issue is still worth more than the MT700. I measured on/off of 1100:1 only with the toshiba compare to 2600:1 with my H77. Measurement have been done in two different room with limited light control. I suspect the toshiba could to a bit better but it wouls still be about half the H77 contrast.

The H77 has lens shift and it's a feature that make the installation so much easier by itself it could justify most of the extra cost in my opinion.

The 8 segments colorwheel is a nice feature for making dark scene better looking. The toshiba doesn't have that.

If the H78 upgrade is made available like we were promise the H77 over the Toshiba Mt700 seem like a no brainer to me.

Like both of you I have been waiting to see what Optoma does with the H78 upgrade... if they don't offer it... I ain't buying the H77 period.

That said I would suspect that the PQ of the H77 would be a bit better than the MT700 (other than the motion artifacts problem...) and it has the lens shift and I believe power zoom and focus also.... it is also $1k more than the MT700 even at it's discounted prices so it should be better and have more options.

the MT700 on the other hand puts out considerably more light and if you don't have total light control would have an advantage.. if you want to see this discussed further tune in on the H79 vs. IF 7210 thread for tons of opinions and information.

I "believe" that the H79 is the H77 with Dark Chip 3 and updated firmware which solves the motion artifact problem and adds a bit more light also (shinier mirrors... smaller spaces between mirrors or at least darker spaces between mirrors...)

But for my humble coin I am still waiting to see what Optoma's decision is on the H78 upgrade........

The H77 is plenty bright for a 77" wide screen and lots of ambient light, but I would pair it with something with a bit of gain to aid in directionality. I really like my High Power screen, but it may be a bit too bright for some without a filter for night time viewing.

....If the H78 upgrade is made available like we were promise.....

Unfortunately, Optoma hasn't made this promise.

well even if the upgrade to the h78 is a no go, dont you all think it would be worth the extra 500 bucks over the toshiba still......seriously how bad is the issue with the panning artifacts on the h77...does it take that much away from the picture.....a little insight would be great from h77 owners...thanks

bigkev4123 You can see it if you know what to look for. It is not as bad as it sounds though. I had a demo on a Sim2 300elink and I thought panning was worst on it then what I ever have seen on my H77. I have also seen it on my ex 8700+. And of coarse on a lot of LCD projectors.

I personally do not think you can get a perfect projector from any manufacture that will not have a flaw or 2. I guess you would have to look at Optoma's track record as being a fairly trouble free projector line. They are one of the best in that respect.

The only thing I think they lack at is there firmware. But even on that issue I have had other brands that are a lot worst then Optoma.

On that note I am impatiently awaiting some news about the H78 upgrade also. I think Tom has done us a favor trying to convince them on that issue. I personally think everyone that owns a H77 needs to call Optoma service on this issue. And it would not be a bad idea for people sitting on the fence to call Sales support also. Maybe that will light a fire under there a$$.

well even if the upgrade to the h78 is a no go, dont you all think it would be worth the extra 500 bucks over the toshiba still......seriously how bad is the issue with the panning artifacts on the h77...does it take that much away from the picture.....a little insight would be great from h77 owners...thanks

If you search around the threads, you'll see that some people claim the panning artifacts with the H77 make the picture wholly unbearable, others find it much less of an issue. Really, the only way is to see it for yourself.

azjetski

Was your 8700 the "+" model?

If so, could you do a little compare and contrast for me on the two projectors.... I currently have an 8700+ set up in a home that I have for sale in Vegas... I am expecting anyone who makes an offer would want me to leave the HT setup (but who knows). So I may have to choose a new projector for my main home in Vegas as well as my vacation place up in Utah (I guess I am kind of hooked on these big screen's maybe).

Thanks for your time...

On the Panning "issue" it seems to be a very personal type of issue. Some folks don't seem to notice it at all and I have read others posting here that have sold their projectors because of it.... so this is really one where you would have to see and choose on your own. However, as I have not found any way to see an H77 in person I am going to stay on the fence until Optoma makes the H78 upgrade available.... but that is purely a personal decision and I do not intend to influence anyone by my choice. YMMV!

...

On that note I am impatiently awaiting some news about the H78 upgrade also. I think Tom has done us a favor trying to convince them on that issue. I personally think everyone that owns a H77 needs to call Optoma service on this issue. And it would not be a bad idea for people sitting on the fence to call Sales support also. Maybe that will light a fire under there a$$.

Tom has said flat out said that the H78 will be available in the US and recommended people to buy the H77 and just send it in if the panning becomes an issue. I think that is unfortunately bad advice and lacking official word from Optoma, inaccurate.

I agree about calling Optoma service. I've done that (and been told it ain't happening). Everything else about the H77 seems great, but the H78 issue can't be ignored. I don't have a projector yet, but the H77 is rapidly falling off my list.

On the Panning "issue" it seems to be a very personal type of issue. Some folks don't seem to notice it at all and I have read others posting here that have sold their projectors because of it.... so this is really one where you would have to see and choose on your own

I spent an afternoon comparing Toms H77 to my NEC HT1000, using a component splitter so we could watch the same source ( dvd's and hdtv ) and putting a piece of cardboard on front of one or the other - instant A/B comparison! For the life of me I never saw anything unusual. I should mention though that I have seen a weird " motion artifact " - banding maybe, on one scene with my H79 - watching U - 571. Something wrong with the projector? I think not - I think there is something weird with that DVD! Haven't seen anything like it in the dozens of other dvds I've watched!!

Craig, others who have upgraded from the H77 to the H79 claim that the panning "issue" is gone from the H79. Whether it was the firmware change made to the H79 or the Dark Chip 3, no one that knows is telling, but apparently it is no longer an "issue" with the H79.

As far as the comparison on the H77, I have read others with the same experience as you... that they did not notice anything unusual, but others are very "adamant" about the issue. That's why my opinion is this is a real "see and decide for yourself" kind of issue.

As you have spent time with both the H77 and H79, how would you compare them?

I did see the banding with U571 (chapter 15 IIRC) on the H77, but the later firmware fixed it - I didn't see it on my H77 or when it was upgraded to the H78 (and never saw it on the HT1000 either). It's not on the DVD otherwise I'd be seeing it too. Have you tried it on a CRT tv? It shouldn't be there either.

if you're seeing it, it might be you need to adjust the colour wheel index or try a different player. I have found that some DVD players can make clay face etc worse than others.

Gary.

There was never a panning problem for me. Id say 98% of the people that have the H77 or would want to buy one didn't or won't see a problem. They may just say what I've said. What the hell are they talking about here. lol

For the umpteenth time I ran the tests on the very few oddly filmed DVD scenes, saw the way the H77 handled the panning, tested the same scenes on the HT1000 and the HT1000 played the oddball scenes in the same way. I asked people with other DLP's how the dither scene played, Alan who has the Seleco HT300e was the first to reply that his seleco plays the scene oddly. Did he sell his Seleco, no

If I had to buy one again I would. Would I send it in for an upgrade probably for the extra brightness but not the panning. If there was or is no added brightness I wouldn't send my H77 in. I'd keep it right where it belongs, home playing movies.

What does it look like when it 'plays oddly' Tom?

Is it still scene 15 you're on about (like the pic you posted in the early days??)

Gary.

I did see the banding with U571 (chapter 15 IIRC) on the H77, but the later firmware fixed it - I didn't see it on my H77 or when it was upgraded to the H78 (and never saw it on the HT1000 either). It's not on the DVD otherwise I'd be seeing it too. Have you tried it on a CRT tv? It shouldn't be there either.

if you're seeing it, it might be you need to adjust the colour wheel index or try a different player. I have found that some DVD players can make clay face etc worse than others.

Gary.

Hi Gary, did the PAL banding look like this?

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/palcontour.jpg

Now that was a nasty problem, one easy to notice. It took Taiwan Engineers weeks of day and night work to solve the problem. Just lucky in NTSC land we were fine.

What does it look like when it 'plays oddly' Tom?

Is it still scene 15 you're on about (like the pic you posted in the early days??)

Gary.

I had a list of goofy scenes. The motorcyle guy in U571, the Journey in the Darkness scene in FOTR, the dwarfs get their rings in FOTR, the dragging of the motorbike past some posters in Spider Man.

First one was Drew gets shot out of the window in Charlies Angels. A scene with panning around actors and the room. I played it ten times couldn't see a problem and gave up.

Hi Gary, did the PAL banding look like this?

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/palcontour.jpg


Dunno Tom, but the NTSC banding sure did. :)

the source for the H77 was HTPC 1280 x 720 @60hx, so it never even saw a PAL signal, yet the banding was still there. Also, don't forget others like Dave H were seeing it too, as well as the panning issue.

Gary.

Here we go again. :)

I don't know if 98% of the potential buyer wouldn't see any panning. I played the catwoman scene a few times in front of potentiel buyers and they never really saw it. The panning issue is visible on out of focus object that are usually out of the center of the screen. My Reboot scene that was send to Gary is really easy to see because the woman pass in front of the screen while focus is on the background.

Even if I'm sensitive to the panning issue I think the Optoma is still a good value for the money because contrast is way better than is competition right now. The toshiba (MT700) I saw didn't had as nice as a picture than the Optoma IMO.

My friend played the Reboot clip on the Toshiba and sees some panning artifact as well. Not as severe but still present. But my old Viewsonic plays that clip really well. And you are talking old DLP technologie (1X color wheel, 4 segments etc..)

Bruno

I love bringing these old pictures out.

My H77 with the U571 triggers job clip. :)
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77u571.jpg

As you have spent time with both the H77 and H79, how would you compare them?

I spent more time with the H76. There really was a big jump picture quality wise going to the H79 - more than worth it. As sharp and beautiful a picture ( blacks are outstanding ) as my HT1000 but in a 720p version. 2.35:1 on my 106" x 45.25" scope screen is a joy! We're watching XXX superbit tonite with some friends as a matter of fact!


if you're seeing it, it might be you need to adjust the colour wheel index or try a different player. I have found that some DVD players can make clay face etc worse than others.

I have an SDI modded RP56 and a DVDO iScan HD - and it is just one weird scene. I Robot plays perfectly, as does 5th Element SB, Star Wars 2, 4, 5, 6, and Top Gun, and Sky Capitan, and Amelie, and Team America, and every damn DVD I've played on the H79 - except that one scene in U - 571 ( not the one shown here ). I think its the movie. Since I own at least 130 dvd's, one scene in one movie I watch once in awhile definitely makes me think dvd glitch, not pj glitch!

It seems to vary from machine t machine, but it can't be said that it's a PAL only artefact.

For sure, that U571 scene is one that will show you some banding. Infact in my picture you can sense a little. But it was nothing like that PAL shot I posted, you must admit.

Plus PAL machines were showing contour/banding all over the place. In Andrea's review of the Mits he makes note of it with different scenes.

Here we go again. :)

I don't know if 98% of the potential buyer wouldn't see any panning. I played the catwoman scene a few times in front of potentiel buyers and they never really saw it. The panning issue is visible on out of focus object that are usually out of the center of the screen. My Reboot scene that was send to Gary is really easy to see because the woman pass in front of the screen while focus is on the background.

Even if I'm sensitive to the panning issue I think the Optoma is still a good value for the money because contrast is way better than is competition right now. The toshiba (MT700) I saw didn't had as nice as a picture than the Optoma IMO.

My friend played the Reboot clip on the Toshiba and sees some panning artifact as well. Not as severe but still present. But my old Viewsonic plays that clip really well. And you are talking old DLP technologie (1X color wheel, 4 segments etc..)

Bruno

Hang in there Bruno, I know you want the H78 upgrade and I've been trying to reach Wing the last couple of days. He must be at Infocom this week. As soon as I get him on the phone I'll reiterate how and when he will make it happen.

Arghh!

I can't stand it. Motion artifact aside, the street prices on the H77 from
several of the forum sponsors are just getting too low to ignore! If the
unit is discontinued then once stock is gone that's it -- game over.

How about this: One of these dealers has a 7-day return policy with
no restocking fee if there's less than 4 hours on the bulb.

I could buy one, check it out, and if the motion artifact (or anything else
for that matter) bothers me I can return it. Given that I can't find one of
these locally it seems like the only way I'm going to be able to audition one.

Can someone give me a list of known, "problem DVD's" along with
chapter/title/time info so I can find out if this is an issue for me in
under 4 hours?

Thanks in advance.

I think with the H77 and latest firmware, you'll be hard pushed to see the artefacts in normal viewing. On some specific scenes it was quite bad, but I never noticed it myself unless I played those scenes that were mentioned here. When played with the H78 those scenes played perfect (in fact, I'd never seen the Spidey 2 scene or the FOTR sequence on the H77 so didn't know what it was meant to look like, as it looks perfectly normal on th H78).

I think you'll like it enough not to return it unless you just watch those scenes that are problematic.

Gary.

...For the umpteenth time I ran the tests on the very few oddly filmed DVD scenes, saw the way the H77 handled the panning, tested the same scenes on the HT1000 and the HT1000 played the oddball scenes in the same way. I asked people with other DLP's how the dither scene played, Alan who has the Seleco HT300e was the first to reply that his seleco plays the scene oddly. Did he sell his Seleco, no...


Uhhhhh, yes Alan DID sell his 300e. He sold it to me in fact when I had the panning and other issues with the H77. It was definitely better than the H77 in the panning/"Clay Face" issues, that's for sure and I speak from first hand experience with both. I later sold it back to him to get the H79 and from what I understand, he sold it again.

Also, ...for the umpteenth time, the main issues I had with the H77's panning and clay face problems were with High Definition, easily seen in things like football games as the camera pans across the sidelines and also in news type shows like when a reporter is standing in front of the camera and people walk behind him/her. Their faces fall apart into a blob of cartoony mess:eek:!!!!!!!!!!! So why everyone keeps asking about DVD scenes to test this is beyond me:rolleyes:

On a better note, it's good to hear that Optoma may fix this with their H78 upgrade, so if they do I also think the H77 is now a great buy...if they offer the H78 upgrade in the USA.

So Dave are you now telling us you had panning problems on your H77 ? :D

To our usa friends keep the presure up the H78 upgrade does solve some of these problems even if Dave refused to admit he had problems ... ..

Daniel.

PS: if i misunderstood Dave sorry im Dutch and stupid and this engrish aint easy.

Arghh!

I can't stand it. Motion artifact aside, the street prices on the H77 from
several of the forum sponsors are just getting too low to ignore! If the
unit is discontinued then once stock is gone that's it -- game over.

How about this: One of these dealers has a 7-day return policy with
no restocking fee if there's less than 4 hours on the bulb.

I could buy one, check it out, and if the motion artifact (or anything else
for that matter) bothers me I can return it. Given that I can't find one of
these locally it seems like the only way I'm going to be able to audition one.

Can someone give me a list of known, "problem DVD's" along with
chapter/title/time info so I can find out if this is an issue for me in
under 4 hours?

Thanks in advance.

Definitely demo the unit for yourself. I have the H77 and I see the panning artifact and it really isn't that big of a deal, I'm not sure why it gets so much attention. But you need to decide for yourself if the panning artifact is a showstopper for you.

Overall I think the H77 is an amazing unit, especially for the price right now.

Are the panning issues present on LCD projectors such as the Panasonic 700?
Do you consider the Optoma H77 to be worth the extra $1000 even considering the panning issues?

Well, I think I'll give the H77 a try. Sounds like I should be sure to ask
that the unit have the latest firmware revision. Speaking of which, what
is the latest version? C17 ??

Dave, I use an HTPC to feed 720p DVD's to my current projector. Is that
considered hi-def enough to show the motion artifacts, or do I need a 1080i
source to really see them?

I'm thinking of giving it a try also, especially with the 7day return option. The only ideal solution of the H79 is 2x too much, so this is a bargain I think. I use a PC also as well as Comcast HD.

Uhhhhh, yes Alan DID sell his 300e. He sold it to me in fact when I had the panning and other issues with the H77. It was definitely better than the H77 in the panning/"Clay Face" issues, that's for sure and I speak from first hand experience with both. I later sold it back to him to get the H79 and from what I understand, he sold it again.

Also, ...for the umpteenth time, the main issues I had with the H77's panning and clay face problems were with High Definition, easily seen in things like football games as the camera pans across the sidelines and also in news type shows like when a reporter is standing in front of the camera and people walk behind him/her. Their faces fall apart into a blob of cartoony mess:eek:!!!!!!!!!!! So why everyone keeps asking about DVD scenes to test this is beyond me:rolleyes:

On a better note, it's good to hear that Optoma may fix this with their H78 upgrade, so if they do I also think the H77 is now a great buy...if they offer the H78 upgrade in the USA.

Yes I know for you it was a hugh big deal. Not to me though and like I said most likley 98% of the public will say "whats the big deal" lol
take care

Tom,

did you play any xbox or PC games on the H77? Would the fast panning around in some of the FPS games give cause for concern or would it not be applicable?

" Are the panning issues present on LCD projectors such as the Panasonic 700? " -

From all my reading in magazines and here, panning artifacts ( lagging of the pixels refreshing the new information ) can be present and a problem to some degree on both LCD and DLP projectors and both rear projection units and regular LCD screen TVs too - all of them have some sort of digital artifacts. Sometimes you see them and sometimes you don't. Sometimes they bug you and sometimes they don't!!

I don't use a game system but I'd imagine they would play fine. Like I said I had to dig real deep to see what a member was looking for. FOTR Journey into the Darkness is the first one I could notice. It's more related to the source though. If you play the scene you'll see waves around the actors as they move. I saw it the same way with the HT1000. Played on the H79 the scene won't have the waves it will just be somewhat blurry.

If your X-box game is filmed well you shouldn't have a problem.

When I think of taking the PJ down, packing it up, sending it to California from Canada, waiting to have it upgraded, sent back through customs arrrrrrgh and then setting it up again, I can't really justify it because I simply don't notice 95% of
the issues. Compared to my 60" CRT, this PJ has an amazing picture and I do have a good eye for detail. Even the Rainbow is disappearing :)

jayray I agree, I wouldn't send my unit in either if it were just a fix for the panning issue. But from what Tom has said, there is also a boost to the lumens, and increased contrast.

There is. I measured an increase of around 100:1 CR and lumens went up around 7% to 8% IIRC.

Gary.

Hey, wait a minute -- you measured the improvement??

I thought the fix wasn't available from Optima yet(!?)

The nice folks at Optoma in Europe have been doing the H77 upgrade for a while now.

I'm in the UK and have an upgraded H78 - that's where Tom got his info from.

I took measurements from my H77 at 60 hours, and again at 160 which was how many hours I had put on it by the time it went in for the upgrade. In fact the lumen improvements are even better than the % numbers I quoted, since an H78 with 60 hours on it would be brighter than one with 160 hours.

Gary.

Ah, I didn't know there was an H77 -> H78 upgrade program in Europe.

I thought the H78 was just another model # available for purchase across
the pond but not here...

I never noticed anyone answer the question about the latest firmware.... I presume Gary's is different as it has been upgraded, but is the latest in the USofA the C-17 firmware?

Thanks,

Dkuster...

Nope we all have Gary to thank for the information on the H78 upgrade.... much to Optoma USA's chagrin I am sure.....

As I recall, C17 is the latest firmware, dated Nov. 2004

I am one of those people who were bothered silly by the panning issue and sent my H77 back. Having said that, the picture thrown by the H77 was plain gorgeous but I don't know how much punch it would loose once the bulb dimmed down so the extra brightness added by the H78 fix would be very welcome (my screen is 1.0 gain, if you have a high gain screen this may not be an issue).

At the current prices, the H77 is a steal. If Optoma "officially" announces the fix I'll get another H77 without second thought. If you are one of those people who are not bothered by the jerky panning, go for it and don't look back - quiet fan, long throw, vertical lens shift, simply non-existent features for competitive projectors in this price range (DLP).

What needs to be determined definitevely is whether H77 is discontinued (what the dealers are saying) or not (what Tom is saying).