As far as maintenance, what is the recommended cleaning for filters and color wheel with this unit? What does optoma charge for an annual checkup on these units? And how are firmware updates handled? Can we download the update and flash it ourselves or must the unit be sent to Optoma?

Hey guys, should I go for this if I can get it for a bit under 3K from an authorized seller? Are they really discontinuing this? Should I jump now? I'm moving and just sold my 55" Mits. Diamond (sniff...) And right now I'm using my fiancee's 27" 480i TV. We were gonna wait a few months until we're settled but....

:)

Dave Mack, I recommend you view the projector first, or at least be ok with the return policy. The projector is super awesome as long as you can live with it's shortcomings.

That said I don't think there is a projector out there in the price range you mentioned that can beat the H77 in PQ and features.

Thanks, Chris... The 79 is intruiging, but there's NO way I could justify the extra coin to the little woman. I understand about the panning issue on the 77 etc... and I am a bit picky. Anywhere in SF I could view one of these pups?

:) d

I couldn't find a single retailer that carried the Optoma line here in Sacramento. I even offered to pay shipping and a "viewing fee". No one was interested in doing that for me. But you might have better luck in SF.

Before you ask, I purchased my H77 sight unseen based solely on the comments from the forum. I purchased from Projector People and they have a very fair return policy and great prices.

If you can't view it before purchasing the next best thing is to buy from a retailer with a reasonable return policy. I never actually tried to return my H77 since I fell instantly in love with it, so I can't say how that might go if you need to return it, but from what I read, the return policy for Projector People looked to be clear and hassle free.

Chrisroman you are lucky all you have to do is drive down to the bay area and bring it in personally.

Dave Mack See if Optoma can give you a demo you should be close to them.

Thanx!

Optoma is in Milpitas. Anyone in Sacramento that wants to see an H79, send me a pm or a direct email!

Dave, I use an HTPC to feed 720p DVD's to my current projector. Is that
considered hi-def enough to show the motion artifacts, or do I need a 1080i
source to really see them?

dkuster,

It wasn't really a big bother to me on DVDs, which were upconverted to 720p from a Bravo D1, then a D2, then a Denon 3910, then I finally tried a Pioneer DV-59AVi which no matter what I tried wouldn't sync up to the H77. That was the straw that broke the camel's back, so I sold it in frustration and got Alan's Sim2 300E, then sold that back to him and got the current H79, which I love!!!

I did notice the issues that are listed in those scenes on DVDs, but they were a little different and not as bad as the "clay face" issue with HD.

Thanks for the info, Dave.

Well folks, I couldn't resist the new low price so I just purchased an H77
from Projector People. They have a very resonable return policy.
so if I find I'm unhappy with the "warts" this unit has I can either a) return
it within 7 days, or b) take the chance that Guitarman (Tom) can get his
contacts at Optoma to offer the H78 upgrade in the States.

(Any news on the upgrade??)

There's nobody around, they must be in Las Vegas.

When you first get to check it out let us know how it looks?

I think you only get 4 hours for the return policy, so if the colors look "off" don't worry about it. Out of the box, on hour 1, the colors look pretty bad to me. It took my unit about 20 hours to "settle down" and a bit of tweaking with Avia.

More important is to see if the panning bothers you because trust me, the colors will end up being brilliant.

Tom and Chris,

Yes, I only get 4 hours (unless I want to pay the restocking fee -- not! ;)

I'm not going to worry about calibration, gray scale tracking, color temp,
etc.. My mission will be to determine if I can perceive any digital/motion/color
artifacts that bother me.

I'll try looking at the chapters previously mentioned on U-571, Charlie's
Angels, and LOTR:FOTR. However, if I remember from this soon-to-be 100+
page thread, most/all of the DVD weirdness was reproduceable on other
projectors.

Then there were some reports of color banding issues, but those were either
eliminated or greatly reduced by calibrating, and/or mucking around with
the CWI and noise reduction settings.

Lastly, there is Dave's "clay face" on panning HD (1080i ?) material. I will see
if any of my Dish Network HD channels exhibit this.

I should also mention that this is my first DLP projector. I"m (hopefully)
upgrading from my LCD-based Sony VPL-VW10HT. I was bothered somewhat
by the rainbows I saw on my brother-in-law's Dreamweaver II projector.

<Sigh> Hopefully this won't be an expensive exercise in futility ;)

The UPS website says the PJ is scheduled to arrive next Tuesday. I'll be sure
to post my impressions next week.

Thanks, everybody, for your help and input.

Tom and Chris,

Yes, I only get 4 hours (unless I want to pay the restocking fee -- not! ;)

I'm not going to worry about calibration, gray scale tracking, color temp,
etc.. My mission will be to determine if I can perceive any digital/motion/color
artifacts that bother me.

I'll try looking at the chapters previously mentioned on U-571, Charlie's
Angels, and LOTR:FOTR. However, if I remember from this soon-to-be 100+
page thread, most/all of the DVD weirdness was reproduceable on other
projectors.

Then there were some reports of color banding issues, but those were either
eliminated or greatly reduced by calibrating, and/or mucking around with
the CWI and noise reduction settings.

Lastly, there is Dave's "clay face" on panning HD (1080i ?) material. I will see
if any of my Dish Network HD channels exhibit this.

I should also mention that this is my first DLP projector. I"m (hopefully)
upgrading from my LCD-based Sony VPL-VW10HT. I was bothered somewhat
by the rainbows I saw on my brother-in-law's Dreamweaver II projector.

<Sigh> Hopefully this won't be an expensive exercise in futility ;)

The UPS website says the PJ is scheduled to arrive next Tuesday. I'll be sure
to post my impressions next week.

Thanks, everybody, for your help and input.


Most of the scenes you mention are not that bad actually. If you want to see the worst I can give you two scenes.

Catwoman. When Halley Berry walk back to her office with her friends. First of second chapter. She walk toward the screen with a wall on the left (right to her) Look at that wall. It look really funny. If you want to know how it should look like just press "pause".

Give me your email and I will send you the Reboot clib. It's only 35meg or so.

Bruno

What is the size of the filters you use infront of the lens (nd or cc) in milimeters ?
Can you screw them or not?
Do you have any photo of yours?

It looks like it should take a 72mm thread but it doesn't, so I use a 77mm lens filter on the outside. As the projector is ceiling mounted, the lens tries to fall forward butis held bbetween the projector lens and the casing.

It might be possible to file off the thread from the 72mm filter and push fit it into the projector lens, but I think a better idea would be to use a wide elastic band so that half of the band is claming the pj lens, and the other half the filter.

Gary.

Can you tell me the exact type of filter you use ?
As i can see is cc magenta...

Quick question. Would a 92" diagonal Da-lite High Power screen be too bright in a light controlled room. The H77 would be mounted behind the sitting position on a shelf about 6' off of the ground. Thanks.

Hi Toxotis,

On the H77 I was using two filters - an FL-Day and an 81A, but on a 7ft wide screen the image was a little dark, so I just used the FL-Day. I then had it upgraded to an H78 which had better colour balance, so now I'm using an FL-Day and a skylight 1B. Both are Hoya HMC filters which are screwed together.

Gansenmind,

It might be too bright if your personal preference is cinema levels of reflectance. If you like a brighter image then the High Power might suit you fine.

HTH

Gary.

Lightfoot,

Thanks for the quick answer. As this is my first projector and screen what does "cinema level of reflectance" mean? I am interested in the High Power because from what I read it doesn't show waves as much.

The room is also painted a dark gray. Thanks.

What exactly you succed with those two filters (can you explain little more about fl day and skylight 1b)?

gansenmind,

cinema levels are a brightness similar to what you would expect to find in your local movie theater - the number often referred to is 12ft lamberts. Having it 3 times as bright is similar to your tv at home. The High Power would be somewhere inbetween in low power mode with the H77 (400 lumens) and your screen would give about 32ft lamberts if the gain you were seeing in the seats was around 2. For me this would be too bright, but an ND2 lens filter would reduce it to 16ft lamberts which is just fine. You can later remove the filter as the lamp ages and dims (great tip from Krasmuzic). You could always try the screen and if you find it too bright, fit the ND2 lens filter to dim it back down.

toxotis,

The lamps in most projectors does not produce a pure white light - quite often the light has less red than blue and green. In order to give a white light, the green and blue contrast adjustments (or gains) are reduced to match the red for a good colour balance. When this is done, the image brightness is reduced, along with the contrast ratio. If you increase the blue and green, and add a lens filter to boost the red to match, you gain a little brightness at the white end of the scale, along with a higher contrast ratio. The filter also dims the image from throughout the range so the overall effect is darker blacks and a higher contrast ratio, though at the expense of some brightness.

The fl-day reduces mostly green, and a little blue, and the skylight 1b reduces blue a little more. Together they help achieve the higher contrast ratio over the standard projector and reduce the lumens by around 13% IIRC. The contrast increased by around 300:1.

To do this accurately, you need a colorimeter or similar to measure and balance the RGBs accordingly (tools such as Colorfacts or OpticOne). It can't really be done by eye.

HTH

Gary.

Gary Lightfoot,

Thank you very much for that well written description. I get it.

I have a 77" wide HP with my H77, and I would agree that it is probably brighter than most are wanting if they have total light control. My wife insists on turning on lamps when we watch our projector at night... :(

Later,
Bill

Hey,
Anyone using a scaler with the H77? Was watching HD Basketball last night and it seemed as though it wasn't scaled the best. Not as crisp and clear as other stuff I've watched, so I was wondering if a scaler would help. I'm running a DISH 921 scaled to 720p, but I would think it's not the best scaler in this unit.

I run a Denon 3910 scaled to 720p. It looks good.
Just not sure if there would be much benefit on getting a good scaler for HD and maybe a cheaper DVD player to be scaled.

Thanks for any and all help.
Scott

I have all my equipment running through a Zektor HDS4.2 component switch to the H77. Everything works just peachy, but everytime I switch components the H77 goes through the entire cycle of checking all inputs then resyncing. It even does this when I switch between HD content and SD content on my cable box.

Anyway to bypass this check and force the H77 to just use the component inputs?

In the H77 system menu put signal lock to on. I use the descete remote buttons also so the PJ is just looking for the one signal I entered. RCA/DVI etc

Thanks Tom!

In the H77 system menu put signal lock to on. I use the descete remote buttons also so the PJ is just looking for the one signal I entered. RCA/DVI etcYou mean it looks for the one *input* you selected. It THEN looks at every signal type, resolution, and colorspace possible on that input selection before attempting to sync. So source lock on helps by limiting what it tries, but it definately does not lock it to one "signal".

You know how it is, with signal lock set to off the PJ does the long road round about way of finding where you want it to go. Right signal lock shortens the time up greaty. Not fast enough for Scott though. ;)

I agree, if you're the impatient type the delay could send you reeling. :) I don't know if they could fix this one, the H77 is the same way. Wonder if the H76 was the same?

Something I found happens with mine - I'm using DVI, but I have been trying the DVI/Resync to compare video and PC levels - if you're in DVI video levels mode and press DVI again, it will cycle round and not find the signal. You're left with the 'no signal' display. I have to choose another input an wait for that to comeback with 'no signal' before I can try DVI again and it will see the dignal and sync up.

Anyone else had that?

Gary.

Hey,
Anyone using a scaler with the H77? Was watching HD Basketball last night and it seemed as though it wasn't scaled the best. Not as crisp and clear as other stuff I've watched, so I was wondering if a scaler would help. I'm running a DISH 921 scaled to 720p, but I would think it's not the best scaler in this unit.

I run a Denon 3910 scaled to 720p. It looks good.
Just not sure if there would be much benefit on getting a good scaler for HD and maybe a cheaper DVD player to be scaled.

Thanks for any and all help.
Scott


Any comments on this???!!! :) :)

SCOTTYB: I also run the 3910 and love it, as for high def 1080i output of both Warner
cable and Adelphia cable running 1080i out on componant both do a superb job. no need for a scaler.

Hey,
Anyone using a scaler with the H77? Was watching HD Basketball last night and it seemed as though it wasn't scaled the best. Not as crisp and clear as other stuff I've watched, so I was wondering if a scaler would help. I'm running a DISH 921 scaled to 720p, but I would think it's not the best scaler in this unit.

I run a Denon 3910 scaled to 720p. It looks good.
Just not sure if there would be much benefit on getting a good scaler for HD and maybe a cheaper DVD player to be scaled.

Thanks for any and all help.
Scott

It depends, the scaler inside the H77/H78/H79 aint bad, but adding a external scaler and running it in native mode can be a upgrade to the end result. How much depends on what you put in (as you found out). for example the 3910 can result in macroblocking so can any other device using the same chipset most scalers use their private scaling engines and won't be hit by this. Also deinterlacing most of the time is better on a external unit. Imho the value in getting a external scaler is not if you can get the dvd signal as good as with a upscaling dvd player but how it upgrades all your signals and allows you to use it as a switcher too.

I personally use a 2900vM+sdi+dvd hdplus+H78 and do consider it a upgrade for all signals some more than others.

Daniel.

Daniel: I just picked up a 2900 to SDI mod and replace my 3910 if it works out. Did you do your's or have it done? Looking for any tips if you did it yourself.. Thanks, Scott

I'm trying to hook my Time Warner HD PVR cable box (Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8000 HD) up to my H77 via DVI, and I'm getting an error message stating that my HDTV is not HDCP compliant. I tried tech support, but they couldn't figure it out. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Randy

Another thing - just got this projector Friday (my first projector) and the PQ is amazing! I came from a 65" Mitsu rear projection and I was expecting an inferior picture based on what I've read about CRT vs. DLP, but this picture is MUCH better right out of the box. I can hardly wait to see if simple AVIA calibration makes a difference.

I watched 9 movies this weekend and totally hosed my sleep schedule. I'll wind up a total shut-in at this rate. :-)

Only nine, What did ya do the rest of the weekend?? :)

I'm trying to hook my Time Warner HD PVR cable box (Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8000 HD) up to my H77 via DVI, and I'm getting an error message stating that my HDTV is not HDCP compliant. I tried tech support, but they couldn't figure it out. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Randy

Next time first unplug the STB to reboot, keep it unpluged a minute. Turn on the projector, then put the plug back in the STB.

Hello all new to the thread but have been lurking for awhile. Tom I'm interested in what you are running all around..screen, receiver etc.. I am looking at the optoma h77 and have a dedicated theater room, controlled lighting etc.. I will be upgrading my dvd player receiver etc when I set up this room. Any suggestions from yourself or anyone else as to equipment that gets the best from this projector? Thanks for all of your input.

Is anyone have idea where to find the service manual of optoma 77-78 ?

Daniel: I just picked up a 2900 to SDI mod and replace my 3910 if it works out. Did you do your's or have it done? Looking for any tips if you did it yourself.. Thanks, Scott

I hope you didn't change on my account alone. 3910 is a fine unit. I have the pms pro sdi card installed. I didn't do it myself since the 2900vM (van medevoort) is not that default to start with it has alot of audio, clock, output stages, new psu's etc etc installed. So i worked with the installer(s) and they talked between themselfs how best to do this. But the general info i found is that with the default 2900 and pms board you need to keep the wires as short as possible since the clock signal is not that great on some 2900's (again i have a different clock) but most people get it working (more info in the videoprocessor forum, the 2900 is used alot). Ive never seen a problem and syncing to the sdi input is very fast (within 0.5 seconds).

Daniel.

I hope you didn't change on my account alone. 3910 is a fine unit. I have the pms pro sdi card installed. I didn't do it myself since the 2900vM (van medevoort) is not that default to start with it has alot of audio, clock, output stages, new psu's etc etc installed. So i worked with the installer(s) and they talked between themselfs how best to do this. But the general info i found is that with the default 2900 and pms board you need to keep the wires as short as possible since the clock signal is not that great on some 2900's (again i have a different clock) but most people get it working (more info in the videoprocessor forum, the 2900 is used alot). Ive never seen a problem and syncing to the sdi input is very fast (within 0.5 seconds).

Daniel.Others, excuse partly OT post, sorry.
Daniel, thanks. I popped the cover and removed the 2900's video board last night. Traces are very small, but I can see them with a magnifying light, think I'll be OK. I'm decent at working on circuit boards. For the H77/H79's I really like the 3910's DVI output. It upscales to 720p beautifully. For anyone with a H77/H79, I think the 3910 is THE best off the shelf choice (and so does the Secrets ranking).

Daniel, no I didn't change on your account. I still have my 3910. I'm keeping it to be sure I A) can do the mod sucessfully on the 2900, and B) I like the SDI output and using the scaler with all my sources, better than just using the 3910's DVI. I agree with you, the 3910 is a fine unit. It has an awsome audio section but I have a hearing loss that will prevent me from ever being an audiophile. I do good to get much out of surround sound, much less SACD, so the 3910's audio capabilities are going unused by me. But I can still see :D. So... my idea was to sell my 3910, buy a 2900 and mod it for SDI, and apply the savings to the scaler.

As for the 2900 mod, I plan to keep the wires very short, mount the SDI board inside the unit, and come out to the back panel with a short cable to a BNC bulkhead fitting (instead of mounting the PMS board on the back panel and having longer wire runs).

[plug:cool:] Assuming I get the SDI right, my 3910 will be for sale if anyone's interested. Probably for about $950+-. FYI, I got one of the "good" one's that passes blacker than black. The newer ones don't. It's 10/10 condition all boxes, etc. Think I got it in Jan. right before my H79. Will provide receipts, willing to take deposits now.[/plug:cool:]

Cheers

Is anyone have idea where to find the service manual of optoma 77-78 ?Does not exist as far as we know. If anyone finds one, and it had any useful information, I expect a reward would be in order :). I think all their notes are handwritten though ;), no pdf avail.

Hello all new to the thread but have been lurking for awhile. Tom I'm interested in what you are running all around..screen, receiver etc.. I am looking at the optoma h77 and have a dedicated theater room, controlled lighting etc.. I will be upgrading my dvd player receiver etc when I set up this room. Any suggestions from yourself or anyone else as to equipment that gets the best from this projector? Thanks for all of your input.

Bargin projector I like to get Bargin equipment. :)

Bravo D2 for dvd, Dalite High Power screen, Harmon Kardon 7200 flagship but on closeout. Receivers I like, Marantz, HK, Denon, Yamaha in that order, speakers Paradigm matched with a HSU sub.

I've been waiting on the edge of my seat about the H78 upgrade, has anyone heard anything official or anything new about it?

Last I heard the Optoma contact was in Taiwan, or at Infocom, or something
like that.

Guitarman is the one to ask.

Perhaps he'll chime in with an update ? ? ? :D

Looking for my 1st projector. I'm nearly set on the h77 with temporary screen (cheap) until I can get a DNP 84" Supernova. I'm happy to see h77 price dropping - not sure how far it will go (also waiting on h78 thing).

Is the lack of HDMI on the h77 a loss in convience or performance (uses DVI)? Is there a such thing as a reasonbly priced "switcher", or can I run mult inputs to my Yamaha 1500 with one out to the projector?

Sorry if i'm OT, this is my 1st post :confused:

Last I heard the Optoma contact was in Taiwan, or at Infocom, or something
like that.

Guitarman is the one to ask.

Perhaps he'll chime in with an update ? ? ? :D

I just called Wings cell number and he's back. I'll call him later when he's back at his desk.

Ok just back from a 3week work related tour. The upgrade is just one of the many things on his plate right now. No time set and I asked him to call me when ready.

Is the lack of HDMI on the h77 a loss in convience or performance (uses DVI)? Is there a such thing as a reasonbly priced "switcher", or can I run mult inputs to my Yamaha 1500 with one out to the projector?

I don't think there is much to choose between a DVI and HDMI. I don't think it really is an issue. HDMI does allow for slightly longer cables, but better DVI cables will usually allow 10metres or more.

As for switching, Gefen makes many different HDMI and DVI switching devices. If you search you should find a few threads on them. They retail for 200-350$ depending on the number of inputs and other features. I'm not sure if this fits your definition of reasonable or not.

tyrotrader,
Send me an email as I'm gonna sell my Geffen DVI switcher. It has four inputs and one output. You can get HDMI to DVI converters.

scott
scottyb@scottyb.com

tyrotrader,

I am also a dealer for Gefen if you are interested in purchasing new. Let me know via PM or email harperhometheater@comcast.net

May I ask those familiar with the H77 your recommendation in choosing between the Stewart StudioTek130 or the FireHawk screens?

My environment will be a dark room (no light and dark walls/ceiling) with a 16:9 110" screen, ceiling mounted H77 at just under 15 feet back.

Thank you!

Based on my reasearch, I can safely say that in those conditions, with no ambient light, the concensus was the ST130 when I had the same question last year. I really like my Firehawk however and I have a dark room too.

That's why I'm so confused, I guess either is going to be good. So if ambient light isn't a concern the only reason to go with a grey screen is to help the black levels of the projector? But the H77 is decent enough in this area that it isn't necessary?

If grey isn't "needed" for these reasons, then I would want to go with StudioTek to maximize the "brightness" for the 110" size, and more true colors/whites? Does anyone think the Firehawk is as bright or color true as the StudioTek? Maybe this belongs in the screen forum, but I wanted the opinions of H77 owners. Thanks!

I think the FH has a slight colour shift compared to the ST130, and although the FH is said to have a gain of 1.35, it apparently is closer to 1.1, so again the 130 seems to be the better option if you want a brighter image. Black level is a personal thing though most of us are happy with the H77 in that respect, but a grey screen would improve it further if you found it not as good as you'd like.

Gary.

That's why I'm so confused, I guess either is going to be good. So if ambient light isn't a concern the only reason to go with a grey screen is to help the black levels of the projector? But the H77 is decent enough in this area that it isn't necessary?

If grey isn't "needed" for these reasons, then I would want to go with StudioTek to maximize the "brightness" for the 110" size, and more true colors/whites? Does anyone think the Firehawk is as bright or color true as the StudioTek? Maybe this belongs in the screen forum, but I wanted the opinions of H77 owners. Thanks!

We had both of these at a "shootout" last year...

The room was light controlled and everything (I mean everything) was painted black. Although we did not have the H77 represented there the consensus of everyone I spoke with at and after the show was that the StudioTek 130 was the winner between these two. We had two BenQ 8700's projecting the same image from the same DVD player onto both screen's... if anything the second projector should have given the FireHawk and advantage (extra light in the room), but the ST130 carried the day.

IMHO of course........

HiHoStevO,
Would you spend the $$ on converting a Firehawk to a ST130?

I currently have an H77 in a complete light controlled room with all dark walls and dark ceiling and floor with a Firehawk(had it for a while), so I can change material only for a fairly reasonable price, anybody think this would be wise?

I wouldn't mind a little more brightness, but if it's a waste of $$ I'm not into that(well maybe a little)

Scott

Scott, I guess that would depend on exactly how much it would cost.......

There was a marked improvement in color, brightness, and punch of the picture with the StudioTek over the Hawk....

The folks on AVS that seem to be absolutely in love with their FireHawks are the InFocus crowd where the projector has a much higher lumen output and less contrast.

The FH is rated at 1.35 gain, but the independent tests seem to put the gain at more like 1.1, where the ST is at least a 1.3 gain, so you will definitely pick up some brightness.

It would be absolutely be worth investigating to see what the cost difference would be, but I would not be willing to throw a whole bucket of money at the issue as your H77 on the FH must provide a pretty darn good picture to start with.

Thanks so much for the valuable input! Especially for the shootout info Steve. That's gives me what I need to make the decision.

Scottyb: Your signature is fantastic. :)

Well, my H77 arrived on Tuesday from Projector People as promised.
I don't have a ceiling mount yet so I've just been playing around with it
set up on the coffee table.

I've been testing the projector with different known problem DVDs to see
if there are any digital and/or motion artifacts that bother me. The montage
of images from DVE looks great. I've watched the corridor scene from
"Catwoman" and couldn't for the life of me see anything wrong with that
wall. "U-571" looked great, as did "LOTR:FOTR".

The H77 seems quite a bit brighter than my old Sony 10HT, and both the
contrast and black level seem _much_ better. The colors look OK out-of-the-box,
but some calibration will definitely be needed.

I have about two hours on the lamp. I need to get my Dish Network receiver
connected up so I can check out some 1080i sporting events. Unless I can
see something significantly wrong in that material it will be an easy
decision -- this PJ is a keeper!

I'm still waiting on the edge of my seat for the H77 -> H78 upgrade. I definitely
want that, and it would be great if it were available before I finalize the
installation.

(Oh, my unit's firmware version is C17. I couldn't find any markings on the
case to indicate build date.)

-dan

Couldn't see panning trouble, I'm not surprised. What are your plans for super tuning? Colorfacts rental would be great after 100hrs.

dkuster, thats great news. I was not happy with the colors on my H77 either when I first got it. Definitely let it settle down, and after 100 hours, like Tom said, calibrate it.

I just used Avia, and it looks very good now, but I'm sure the projector has much more to offer and so I think I am going to try colorfacts in a couple of weeks.

If you are looking for a good mount, this is the one I bought http://www.laaudiofile.com/upa1002.html . The H77 is a big unit and this mount holds it well.

Tom:
I have an older version of the Smart III calibration kit that I used to use on
my Sony 10HT. I was planning on spending the $89 to upgrade to version
2.0 and then use that for calibration. I don't know anything about the
colorfacts system. Should I consider that instead?

Chrisroman:
I have a Chief RPA mount that I've been using for my current Sony PJ.
I was just going to get a new "hanger bracket" and maybe also the
"lateral shift bracket" and re-use the same mount.

Whoa, that's a pretty hefty rental fee for the colorfacts system. It would
be worth it if it were a do-it-once-and-you're-done calibration, but doesn't
it need to be re-done as the lamp ages and also after a lamp change??

$299 for one month. For the technical and fun aspect alone it seems worth it. After the bulbs over 100hrs you can retain a good balance from there on for color. I don't think things won't shift that bad out of balance. At least you're balancing things out to start with, that's a key thing.

If you have a good eye you can at least try the tutorial I put in the first post on taking bias colors out of gray. I'd give that a shot first.

Since I've been trying so many projectors. First thing I do with them is tune with Avia and then take a look at the grays in the Pluge pattern, or Needle Pulse pattern, even if you don't have Avia you can use the THX optimizers pattern that shows gray steps. So many times when I'd first look a the gray steps I could see - green in dark grays, or pink/red in the whiter grays. I'd first toggle the projector color temps to find which one is the closer to steely grays. Then I'd use the RGB's from there. You might get pretty good and doing this.

Thats a fine mount. No need to spend more $ than you have to.

I've never used colorfacts, but I followed Tom's directions and I ended up with a good looking picture. Out of the box the color was very red, skin tones looked really bad. But after about an hour with Avia, I ended up with a very good image.

In fact, at the time I still had an SP4805 which has excellent color calibration from the factory, and after tweaking the H77 and comparing the two the H77 looked just as accurate.

Truth is there is nothing about the color now that bothers me, I think it looks terrific. But, like Tom said, I think it would be fun to really get in there with colorfacts and see what the unit can do.

I have an older version of the Smart III calibration kit that I used to use on my Sony 10HT. I was planning on spending the $89 to upgrade to version 2.0 and then use that for calibration. I don't know anything about the
colorfacts system. Should I consider that instead?I tried Steve's S III, but at least then there was no H7x specific version. I used the "generic DLP" version. While it was educational, and I don't regret the time fiddling with it, in the end, my grayscale was clearly wrong. Spreadsheet was spot on, colors were visibly off. YMMV I sucked it up and bought a Progressive labs CA-6X (Optic One).

GetGray,
I wonder if your light meter was off? I got good results with Smart on my
Sony.

Still maybe I should consider your option or colorfacts. Guitarman seems
to feel a one-time calibration with colorfacts is good for the life of the PJ.

I may try his "eyeball method" of adjusting the grayscale first. For a mere
$89 I may also upgrade my Smart III to 2.0 and give that a whirl. The
problem with trying to eyeball a grayscale is that you can easily end up with
a bias across the IRE range in one direction or the other. Some people's
idea of what grey looks like might have too much blue. Other's might have
too much red. The bottom line is the "eyeball method" can only attempt
to make each shade of the IRE steps look the same. But they might not
be a technically correct "grey".

Thanks everybody for the input!

Well once the bulbs broken in it should stay good enough. It's not like DLP owners can afford to have ISF's out every 500hrs of bulb use. To keep everything the best it can be color wise it's best to have something like the Optic one or colorfacts, Optic1 being the bargin deal now at around $1500.

GetGray,
I wonder if your light meter was off? I got good results with Smart on my
Sony. Very unlikely. Brand new, from them, and they calibrate and test each meter providing you with each meter's "correction factor" to enter into his spreadsheet. He makes one that has a known referece to the sony. He does not have a known reference to the H7x. His website explains that without that reference, it's a crap shoot as to whether or not it will work.
I may try his "eyeball method" of adjusting the grayscale first. For a mere
$89 I may also upgrade my Smart III to 2.0 and give that a whirl. For that price I can only assume you are getting an updated spreadsheet. At the very least you'd need to have your meter calibrated by him to get a current correction factor I'd think. The whole thing is based on his known reference adn his meter correction factor to be right. And those meters aren't very accurate (per my personal conversation with the mfgr, and per William Phelp's own testing). They are OK for the smart 3 since you are using relative measurments, but I wouldnt' spend a C note on anything unless I was getting a fresh calibration on the meter. Last point was Smallcombe must be busy because he was difficult to reach. The seller was very reachable the other Steve) and very nice to deal with. They gave me my $ back since it didn't work. I wanted it to, just didn't.

Just an update on my H77 evaluation: I've viewed various HD programming
on Dish Network last night. I still haven't been able to detect any motion
artifacts, although I haven't yet been able to view a sporting event like
football.

I'm quickly coming up on the 4 hour no restocking fee time limit. So far
I haven't seen anything that makes me want to return the H77.

It will be tuff to return it, that's allot of projector for that price.

It is indeed. I was very wary given that I'm somewhat of a perfectionist.
The reports of various problems with this unit scattered throughout this
thread had me worried. I don't doubt that the people reporting motion
artifacts, posterization, etc, did in fact experience those shortcomings, but
whatever the reason (I got lucky with my particular unit, or my eyes aren't
"good enough" to see the problems, or the latest production runs have the
bugs worked out) so far I'm really happy with the overall performance.

I'd still like to get the h78 upgrade for "piece of mind" and the brightness/
contrast improvements.

The latest firmware H77s should be free of the posterisation issue, and the panning artefact is rarely visible in my experience. You could try one of the specific scenes that highlight it (and I'm sure it will be obvious), but for general viewing of most DVDs you probably won't see it. I didn't anyway.

The H78 upgrade should reduce the panning issue to the point of it being barely visible on the very worst examples where it was seen, but for the rest it should be totaly gone. Again, that's my experience with the upgrade model as I can't account for every H78 and every DVD.

HTH

Gary.

Thanks Gary.............

It is great that Optoma Europe came up with a fix that not only helped the PAL issues but the NTSC as well......

Now we just have to see of Optoma USA is really going to get on board.

Hi! Yerterday I recived the Optoma H78 (it's increrible)
I have a question... What is the best configuration for this proyector? (brightness,contrast....)
I use dvi outpout.
Arghh excuse me for my poor english :´(

Watched FOTR last night. What clayface, panning. I simply haven't seen any of this and I was looking for it. How much of a difference does the DVD player make in any of the scenes often mentioned. Still wondering if the upgrade will be worth it for ME.

Hi! Yerterday I recived the Optoma H78 (it's increrible)
I have a question... What is the best configuration for this proyector? (brightness,contrast....)
I use dvi outpout.
Arghh excuse me for my poor english :´(

Use the THX optimizer to tune the brightness and contrast. Since you're using DVI you'll adjust colors with the Image advance adjustments if needed. Use the tutorial I put in the first post (how to eyeball a better grayscale).

Tom, any response from Mr. Wing?

Optoma is moving on the US upgrades. I am part of a beta test for the new release and should have my projector upgraded by either the end of this week or the beginning of next. I have bgosselin's test clip and will check out the LOTR, cat woman, and Spiderman clips as well as HDTV sports clips. I definately see the issue in the current version of the H77 with C17 firmware and will be able to evaluate the upgrade against a non upgraded H77. I have been told that the changes involve both the operating firmware and the optical engine firmware. I will also log the contrast and brightness levels before and after the upgrade. I will post the results of the tests as soon as I run them.

Bob

Bob,

That's great news that Optoma is really going to offer us this!!

So does the upgrade include any hardware changes, or is it just two different
firmware images that need changing?

I'm sure a lot of us here are looking forward to your evaluation of the upgrade.
Having actual "before and after" feedback from someone who can see the
artifacts on the H77 will be very useful, as will measurements on the brightness
and contrast improvements.

Thanks very much!

Tom, any response from Mr. Wing?


Yes, people that are bugged by or can see an actual problem with panning can request the H78 upgrade. They want to go slow at first, that's why the beta testing. They'd like to make sure people will actually notice a difference for the $150 they'll be paying. You see the panning artifact is very hard to notice and had to be pointed out to lab guys a few times before they could see anything. I'm getting a machine and will play all the items I know are tuff panning sequences, will compare it to the H79 and report.

Even if you never saw any panning problem another part of the upgrade effects optics and does increase brightness a little, maybe 100lumens worth. This I can test also with my light meter.

Why not a list. So far I got
FOTR, dwarfs get their rings
FOTR, chap 28 journey in the dark
FOTR, Wizard battle
U571, Special opps - the motorcyle guy
Spider man, the draggin of motor bike past billboards

This is insane lol, just kidding :)

What else you got, pls add to the list.

I'm getting a machine and will play all the items I know are tuff panning sequences, will compare it to the H79 and report. No offense Tom, but since you were one of the only folks who didn't see the artifact, back when it was pointed out adamantly by Dave Harper, you seem an unlikely candidate to test and see if it's fixed. I'm confident it will look great at your place :). Get Bruno (bgosselin) on the beta list for a good test and objective input to the engineers. I'd suggest Dave, too if he has time to fool with it, since I consider it "his baby" anyway.

I'm game. How do I get on the beta list?

I'm game. How do I get on the beta list?

Yeah, me too. I wanna be a guinea pig!

No offense Tom, but since you were one of the only folks who didn't see the artifact, back when it was pointed out adamantly by Dave Harper, you seem an unlikely candidate to test and see if it's fixed. I'm confident it will look great at your place :). Get Bruno (bgosselin) on the beta list for a good test and objective input to the engineers. I'd suggest Dave, too if he has time to fool with it, since I consider it "his baby" anyway.

They already have a dozen beta testors. (these testors are owners right here at AVS) They wanted a few responces first. They don't want a whole slew of machines at once with no confirms that people are seeing an improvement for their $150.

As far as me not being able to see the differences, not true. I do know what to look for. I'm getting a machine anyway, I'm buying one to keep.

Post up your torture tests. :)

For those who don't know, there's some more info in the H78 thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=519152&page=1&pp=20

Here's Garys' key post rather than go thru the tread.

"I managed to get some measurements from an H78 the other day, and there are genuine improvements - lumens have gone up as I measured 550 in high mode whereas the H77 was 510 when I measured it. Lamp hours are about the same as when I got my H77 and measured it.

Contrast has gone up from 2300:1 on the H77 to 2400:1 H78 (out of the box).

The panning issue is definitely resolved. All the torture test scenes panned smoothely with no break up or clayface etc.

Colour balance looked different when I maxed out the RGBs - blue was cond=siderably higher, but now blue and green are closer and also less away from red. I could get 2700:1 CR using an fl-day whereas before I had to use two filters to get that much. I think more could easily be tweaked out with a more suitable filter.

The conclusion is that this upgrade is worth every cent IMHO. Not only are the issues resolved, but there are also tangible improvements that can be measured.

Gary. "

Post up any torture tests I haven't already posted. By the way the FOTR chap 28 Journey in the Dark will be hard for any projector. Both my H31 and H30 can't handle this clip with a blur, you'll see contour waves. I did run this clip yesterday on the HT1000 and it did play as a blur, the dwarfs get their rings also.

So what you're looking for is not to see a contour wavey effect with these panning scenes. They should just look smooth and blurry. :)

For those who don't know, there's some more info in the H78 thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=519152&page=1&pp=20

I think that an H78 thread for the US is probably appropriate, so I started one here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=551934

That way, those with a bit more time with the projector can summarize the information that has gone before in this thread that none of the new owners want to seem to read in its entirety! :p

Later,
Bill

No offense Tom, but since you were one of the only folks who didn't see the artifact, back when it was pointed out adamantly by Dave Harper, you seem an unlikely candidate to test and see if it's fixed. I'm confident it will look great at your place :). Get Bruno (bgosselin) on the beta list for a good test and objective input to the engineers. I'd suggest Dave, too if he has time to fool with it, since I consider it "his baby" anyway.


Pick me! Pick me! Pick me! :D

I can be Beta! I know I can. I have all the quality for it. :)

Seriously Tom if Optoma is looking for more guinea pig and would gladly send my machine overthere even if It would mean loosing it for a few weeks. I would pay 150$ and won't complain if it doesn't cure completly the panning issue. Are they doing the exact same mod that they did in Europe? I have a bunch of zone 2 film as well.

Bruno

So I have a question...

Are the latest H77s being shipped to the US from Optoma already equipped with the (H78) firmware?

Or is the H77 going to be replaced by an H78 here in the US as is the case in Europe?

I am compelled by the incredible current pricing to consider buying an H77, but I will be happy to wait a month or so if I can get the latest and greatest firmware.

Tom

Bruno , yes it's the exact same mod they did in Europe. You're planning on sending your projector from Canada?

Bruno - YMMV right now. I could not convince them to put me on the list, so they say it's going to be a few more weeks before it is fully released. (I posted this in the thread I started).

Bruno , yes it's the exact same mod they did in Europe. You're planning on sending your projector from Canada?

I would send it from Canada. I still have the box. Like you know when I found the panning artifact on the H77 I was planning to sell it back or upgrade to the H79. But not even two weeks after my purchase the projector was 1000$ lower than what I paid for. The cost of the upgrade was too expensive. I was always convince that Optoma could fix it. So every night I pray on my bedside to projectors God to get that upgrade available around here. :D

If ever the upgrade is offer to everyone I would need to send it to California anywayn. They don't do repair in Canada if I'm not mistaking. I purchase my Optoma H77 from a AVS member in the USA.

Bruno

I see, you may have a snag with the shipping prices. Maybe you can work something out with the RMA people, long shot though. I mean they'll take it for sure just don't know how they'll cover the shipping expense.

I don't mind covering the shipping expense. Worst case scenario I would send it to a friend that will then ship it to Optoma.

I have some contact at Optoma Canada. I do review for projectors in a french magazine. Maybe I could do some kind of arrangement through them.

Bruno

So with all this coming true, is it back to being a nasty rumor that the H77 is discontinued? Is it possible they will just call models with the new firmware a H78 (perhaps this is where the rumor started), or more likely just keep the firmware as is and the only option will be to send it in?

I also assume retailers have stock on this now, unlike recently in this thread where people were saying they were hard to get.

Bruno,

Wondered if we could arrange something from Optoma Canada to accomodate all Canucks who would like the upgrade.

I'm not a Canucks. :) But I loved the idea. I guess we will need first report from beta tester to see if the upgrade will be offered at large. Than if the going to inclued Canada it that scheme of things.

Bruno

Has anyone noticed mosquito type noise? I first noticed some noise in Finding Nemo, fish swimming in the background. I then noticed some additional noise while watching the NBA finals. The noise in Nemo was more noticeable from the viewing position than the noise from the NBA finals (on ABC-HD). Would the H78 upgrade clean up some of this noise? Also, does the 0 dead pixel policy apply to the H77? I have one dead pixel after about 70 hours of viewing.

Feds27 Yes the H77 is covered on the dead pixel policy. If I were you I would call Optoma right away, and tell them you would rather have a new H77 and upgrade it before they ship it to you. You may have to pay the $150.00 but it will be well worth it. :D

New owner of an H77 (and hopefully the new owner of a 123" Silverstar in the next couple of weeks). My first projector, so I have a noob question. When mounting the projector high and in the back of the room, do you actually angle the projector down a little or do you just point it straight forward and in the case of the H77, use the lens shift to get the picture on the screen? If you angle it downward, does it cause any geometry problems? Also, does it really matter whether it's ceiling mounted or just mounted on a high shelf?

New owner of an H77 (and hopefully the new owner of a 123" Silverstar in the next couple of weeks). My first projector, so I have a noob question. When mounting the projector high and in the back of the room, do you actually angle the projector down a little or do you just point it straight forward and in the case of the H77, use the lens shift to get the picture on the screen? If you angle it downward, does it cause any geometry problems? Also, does it really matter whether it's ceiling mounted or just mounted on a high shelf?
You can mount it as high level with the top of your screen. Otherwise, yes you woudl have to angle it to point down at the screen. That will cause keystone distortion. You can compensate for this digitally, but that will have a detrimental effect on the picture.

You can mount it as high level with the top of your screen. Otherwise, yes you woudl have to angle it to point down at the screen. That will cause keystone distortion. You can compensate for this digitally, but that will have a detrimental effect on the picture.

With a fixed screen you can also compensate for it mechanically (angle of incidence equalling the angle of reflection and all that). Basically, tilt the bottom of the screen outwards an equal number of degrees that you have to angle the projector downwards. The geometry will be square on the screen, and you will generally not notice the slight offset from your seating position.

Later,
Bill

Cool... thanks, GetGray. I should be fine then. It looks like I'll be able to line up with the top of the screen easily, especially if I go with a shelf mount. Anybody got any DIY tips for making a nice shelf? I've been looking around, but can't find anything from retail/ online that's big enough, sturdy enough, or classy looking. I was even thinking of having a 24x18 sheet of glass cut and finding a way to mount that.

I have an H77 and 123" silverstar, it is an excellent combination. I use lense shift also to line up the top of screen. You should have no trouble at all. Congradulations on your new purchase. You will love this projector with the 123" silverstar.

Thanks, Reveille. I'm pretty pumped about the H77/ Silverstar combo just by seeing what the H77 does in a sun-soaked room on a white sheet hanging on the wall. How is your setup with lights on in the room (not sunlight... I have blackout shades on the way)? I plan on having lots of people over this fall for some HD football watching and I've read the Silverstar is good with ambient light. My throw is about 17.5', so I'm hoping the H77 puts out enough light to the Silverstar from that distance to have some decent daytime watching.

"ceiling mounted or just mounted on a high shelf?"

I built a wood shelf and covered it with black Velvet. Pretty simple really, I have the shelf suspended down about 1.5' where it alignes down into the screen area, so no keystone is needed. A shelf on a back wall would be good also, an open shelf for ventilation.

I have mine ceiling mounted and while the room is completely light controlled, I use lots of ambient light. We had a dozen people over and watched the NBA championships with the back overhead lights on and it looked fine. While it looks best with lights down the silverstar does a great job with ambient light. If the lights are in the back of the room or not directly pointed at the screen it will look fine. Lights in the front of the room do dim the picture a lot. You should have no problem in the fall with football if you use indirect lighting. By the way my throw is about 17.5 feet also.

Has anyone compared the H77 to the Pany 700 or Sanyo Z3? Is it worth the $XXXX difference?

Ahhhh!!! I'm pulling my hair out over here. :) I spent all day today setting up my home theater and have run into a problem. When I switch on the Comcast cable box and try to view a HD channel, I can see it but it definitely does not look like HD. And my Optoma H77 is showing 720 x 480 as the signal. What's really wierd is that it was working great yesterday but then I unplugged everything and moved it and now I can't seem to get a true HD signal.

Do you think this has to do with the cable box or the Optoma?

Please help! :)

And also, when I select native format for the HD signal, it shrinks it down to a very small image. The only way I can get it to fill the screen is with letterbox. 16:9 seems to strech it.

Has anyone compared the H77 to the Pany 700 or Sanyo Z3? Is it worth the $XXXX difference?

Don't even go there. We're takling Cadillac DLP machines here. The difference is huge.

Ahhhh!!! I'm pulling my hair out over here. :) I spent all day today setting up my home theater and have run into a problem. When I switch on the Comcast cable box and try to view a HD channel, I can see it but it definitely does not look like HD. And my Optoma H77 is showing 720 x 480 as the signal. What's really wierd is that it was working great yesterday but then I unplugged everything and moved it and now I can't seem to get a true HD signal.

Do you think this has to do with the cable box or the Optoma?

Please help! :)

Sounds wierd. If the projector is reading 480 it's not seeing a 1080i feed. Check the comcast boxes setup. You have choices, I set mine to output 720p and 480i overide.

If you hit Menu and Power on the STB at the same time the service choices menu should pop up.

Thank you Guitarman!

For some reason, the cable box had reset itself to only output 480i. I changed it to 1080i and 480p override.

Do you think 720p and 480i override look better? Excuse me for my ignorance, but what does the override do anyway?

Has anyone compared the H77 to the Pany 700 or Sanyo Z3? Is it worth the $XXXX difference?

I've seen the panny AE700 and like Tom I don't think there is any possible comparaison.

Thank you Guitarman!

For some reason, the cable box had reset itself to only output 480i. I changed it to 1080i and 480p override.

Do you think 720p and 480i override look better? Excuse me for my ignorance, but what does the override do anyway?

Take a close look at 480p vs 480i overide. I noticed a big difference in sharpness by using 480i overide.

480p you're using the comcast boxes deinterlaced/scaler and it doesn't do to good of a job.

And also, when I select native format for the HD signal, it shrinks it down to a very small image. The only way I can get it to fill the screen is with letterbox. 16:9 seems to strech it.

You use native with DVI and an Upscaling Dvd player at 720p, here you get a perfect 1.1 pixel match. I use 16.9 for TV from the comcast box, 16.9 has a slight overscan that covers signal garbage from some TV channels. It shouldn't look squashed. Check the service setup of the STB you're using, make sure it's set to 16.9.

I don't setup thru DVI with the Comcast box but pretty sure native will work for 16.9 HD channels, they won't have grabage, STB set to 16.9. If you use this setup you just change to 16.9 for basic channels. If you can't get all the garbade out you use the signal adjustment. Mostly there junk at the top so you just have to shift up with vertical signal.

I too am debating between a H77 and a 7205. I have a long narrow room with 4 windows on one side wall (that will have shades). I have a 110" diag. Dalite screen and want to have a 14-15 ft throw. Any comments on which is a better projector?

I too am debating between a H77 and a 7205. I have a long narrow room with 4 windows on one side wall (that will have shades). I have a 110" diag. Dalite screen and want to have a 14-15 ft throw. Any comments on which is a better projector?Neither is "better" They are different. There are entire threads dedicated to the particular question. Just depends on what you want. It's really to big a question (that's been covered here a lot - avail with a search) for a simple answer.

Choose advanced search enter +H77 +7210, and choose title, you'll get an ear (eye) full.

I too am debating between a H77 and a 7205. I have a long narrow room with 4 windows on one side wall (that will have shades). I have a 110" diag. Dalite screen and want to have a 14-15 ft throw. Any comments on which is a better projector?


I had both projectors setup in my home and the fan noise from the Infocus was horrible. The Optoma is the quietest projector I've ever owned.

As for PQ, I personally like the Optoma H77 better, but it takes some patience to calibrate it and bring out the best picture. Out of the box, the infocus had terrific color. The Infocus has a better scaler as well I think.

Also, the Optoma is a huge projector. I ended up having to upgrade my mount to support this beast.

I also, preferred the lens offset on the Infocus, The H77 has a 100% offset, I would estimate that the Infocus had a 130% offset, allowing it to be mounted closer to the ceiling.

Optoma has a better warranty and a zero dead pixel policy.

All things considered I would have been happy with either unit PQ wise, but I went with the Optoma because of the silent fan and great warranty.

Hey guys, have a question for anybody. Getting an h77 and denon 3805 but can't choose a hd stb for denon. Using directv sat. Any ideas? Have heard bad news about h10, is it true?
One more question please, should I wait on the 3805 since there's no dvi or hdmi, other receivers are way above me!!! Any advice welcomed!! mojo, THANKS

If you want to go all DVI you could get a geffen DVI switch box right now. Then run the analog stuff thru your receiver. I'd be looking for a STB that has a HD recorder onboard.

Thanks Tom, yea a stb w\ record cap. would be nice but guess $$$$$.
Not many options for stb's is there. I really wanted the optics on stb and h10 is the only one i know of. Thought about just using the component on h10 and skip the hdmi port for now. Does that sound stupid? I've got to find a box and dvd this week so i can test new pj ect. First have to cut half dozen very large trees since new hd dish does'nt like em. any recomendations on stb and dvd welcome. Thanks again ,mojo

Mojo..........

I have the Denon 3805 and it is a GREAT receiver! However, I have had mine for a year and a half (since they first hit the street) and newer stuff is coming.

As you know the 3805 only has component, s-video, & composite video inputs/outputs... no HDMI or DVI. As Tom suggested I use mine with a Gefen DVI switcher. The Gefen switches between my RCA DTC-210 HD STB and my HTPC. A stand alone DVD player, X-box, and ReplayTV devices run through the Denon's component in's and on to the projector.

In a couple of weeks, JVC is supposed to be releasing the RX-D701(S) & 702(B) [depends if you want silver or black]. This receiver will have 150 watts on 7 channels and two HDMI in's with one HDMI out. The most fascinating thing about it is that it will upconvert the anything input on the composite, s-video, or component in's and output all video signals over the HDMI output. This would make it slick for only needing to run one cable to the projector. Also, the MSRP is I believe $899.

One caveat, I am not an audiophile by any definition. I just want music and movies to sound good! With the Denon when it was demonstrated in a good setup I could hear instruments in musical numbers that were not audible with a couple of other receivers that we tested. I have absolutely no idea how the JVC will compare, but it if price is any judge it is not going to be in the same league with the 3805... just a guess. The JVC is using a "digital" amplifier... I also have no clue as to what that means... just providing the facts!

Steve - The A/D and D/A converters on the Denon receivers are about as good as they come. I have a six year old AVR-5700, and I have yet to feel the need to upgrade it!

Steve, Thanks for the info. It's all still a little vague to me now but I'm SURE by the end of next week when I get most everything hooked up and running, I'll know a heck of a lot more! Where might I find that switcher? Seems like for now I won't even use the h77 dvi. Only way would be to go right to a dvd, right? Anyway thanks alot, If I get stuck on something it's good to know I can ask you guys. Got a go pick up a dvd now. see ya, mojo

Mojo...

RAM has a link at the top of this page... they are forum sponsors and that is who I bought my Gefen switcher from.

Until you get a switch, yes you will need to go straight from your DVD player or HD STB to the projector.

If I had to choose which to use, I would run the HD STB via DVI/HDMI to the H77's DVI in and run the DVD player (for now) via component. My thinking is that the DVD only has 480 lines of resolution to start with... so I am guessing you will get more visual rewards with the higher resolution HD signal via the DVI input at least for now. Eventually you would want to connect as much as possible through the DVI input because things just look better that way.

I know after hooking up a Gateway 901X that I happen to find on sale to my projector via DVI and popping in a DVD... I use the computer for all my DVD watching. The image is much crisper and more detailed with the Gateway outputting a 1280x720 signal direct to the DVI input on the projector.

One other thing to consider... if you are running the DVI cable through the ceiling.. you may want to buy (I would... but then I am a bit weird) a Gefen 4x1 or 2x1 HDMI switch. My thinking is that this would (1) help future proof your system, (2) is a thinner cable and easier to run through conduit, (3) I have read that HDMI handles longer runs with less signal loss than DVI. You just use an HDMI to DVI gender changer at the end. Gefen gives you 4 one meter cables with the switcher and they will give you any combination you want of DVI/DVI, DVI/HDMI, HDMI/HDMI, or whatever you desire.

just a thought

Steve, Thanks a lot for your thoughts! Would'nt know where to begin w\o you guys getting me started. Most of what I've learned has been right here. read-read-read. I also would'nt have known about some of the best equipt. oht here either.
All I ordered so far w\ 77 was a component whitch is good, like the hdmi way w\ dvi adap. I'll check the ram place too. thanks again for your time and if you don't mine I'll update ya soon as I get something working.. mojo

Hi, Tom!

I´ve already searched on this forum and I couldn´t find an answer. So, please, tell me: what´s difference between the H77 and the Infocus SP5700 in terms of contrast and color quality?

Thank you.

IF5700 is a Matterhorn (1024x576) resolution projector based on the same generation technology as the HD2. The H77 is based on the HD2+ chip (720p resolution). They are VERY different beasts. In fact, you should not even really be comparing them, unless you are wanting to know whether the H77 is worth $x more than the IF5700...

Basically, given where the HD2+ projectors have gone in price, the IF5700 would not be worth much more than about $1500 to me...

Later,
Bill

I know that they have different chips. But I have a IF SP5700 and I was considering the possibility of buying a H77. So, I wanna know what´s the difference between these two in terms of contrast and color quality, not resolution.

Generally accross the board the Optomas will have more than twice the contrast level and colors will look more natural. Plus with the H77 you get the zero dither feature and you can't hear the projector fan sounds.

Colors will be more off for the Optoma pre-calibration, but like Tom indicates, post-calibration, the Optoma seems to have a wider gamut than the IF. Beyond that, quiet, higher resolution, higher contrast. All-in-all it should be a significant step up.

Ok! Thanks!

Now, I have a gray screen with a 0.8 gain in my house and it reduces the image brightness. So, considering that H77 has 900 ANSI, will I get a good image with this combination (H77 + 0.8 gain screen)?

The H77 hits ~400 - 450 ANSI post-calibration, so a gray screen may be overkill if you want a larger screen or have ambient light (I use a 77" wide High Power with mine due to ambient light issues).

Later,
Bill

My screen has 106"... so, it would be a good thing, right? I would get a good image... right?

I used a 106" 1.0 and the image looked great. All the screen shots in the first post were with this setup. With the .08 gray you should be fine. Maybe a little richer color also.

What about the image brightness, Tom? No problem?

Should be plenty bright. The H77 tuned gave good numbers. Higher than average projectors have been. 385 in econo, 585 in bright.

My screen has 106"... so, it would be a good thing, right? I would get a good image... right?

You would be getting about 9ftL with a new bulb in eco mode. More on "brite", but both will diminish sigificantly during the first couple of hundred hours of use. This will be fine, but only if you have good light control (no Super Bowl parties...).

He could use bright mode and white peak to boost up for football.

To show how messed up my screen ftl's are. High Power screen at 2.0gain = 35ftl's off the same 106" screen size with the H79. No wonder I'm going blind. I bought the HP for the HT1000 which needs it but it's killing my H79. Unless you like blasting bright.

I'm trying the Graywolf soon, that's gray and 1.8gain. But I'll see what kind of brightness drop I can get with the PJ ceiling mounted.

Two questions:
1) Which one is brighter: H77 or SP5700?
2) Which screen would be better for the H77: 0.8 or 1.2 gain?

The 1.2gain puts you at 14ftls 106" diag screen, econo mode. Don't know the tuned lumen rating on the IF5700. In general the whole line is pretty bright.

The SP5700 is about twice the lumens, so use double the gain with the H77 for same ftL.

However you are comparing an early MatterHorn to a later HD2+ - your H77 has 25% more scan lines meaning you can go that much larger screen or closer to it.

Tom,
I just bought an H77, my basement theater room can be totally black, or slightly lit by some wall sconces on a dim switch. I want both movies in the dark to be great, as well as a well lit room displaying NFL football with my friends. Do you recommend staying with a white sreen like yours or Hi Def grey? Of all the material choices such as cinema vision and Da-Mat, I'm not sure what's best. Your help would be great. (I plan on a fixed frame screen).

Thanks
Corey

I failed to provide that my screen will be 92" diag. I see some posts up top about screen type, but some clarfication for my situation would be cool. I'm assuming I woud have to peak up brightness for the day time football.
Corey

The 1.2gain puts you at 14ftls 106" diag screen, econo mode. Don't know the tuned lumen rating on the IF5700. In general the whole line is pretty bright.

Tom, what would be the best value for ftls?

(Somewhat of a cross post here.)

I think I'm finally ready to make a decision and go with the H77. My only area of concern is the lack of HDMI-in on the projector. Am I really missing out on anything using a DVI to HDMI adapter? The HDMI vs. DVI thread went way over my head, but mentioned that going straight from HDMI out to HDMI in is better during motion / panning, which is my biggest pet peeve.

I'll have 4 sources to run to the H77:

D* HD DVR w/ HDMI-out
Progressive Scan DVD Player (make/model yet to be determined) w/ HDMI-out
HTPC w/ DVI-out
Xbox w/ Component RGB-out

Since there's only one DVI-in on the projector, I'll need a selector / switch of some sort, no? Is there a selector that has 1 DVI or HDMI out, 3 HDMI-in and 1 Component RGB-in that anyone knows of or would suggest?

If at all possible, I'd like to keep the cables I have to run up to the projector to a minimum. One HDMI-DVI cable would be great. Unfortunately, there's about 20' of distance to cover from the projector to the DVD Player / HD Receiver rack. If I remember right, the max you're suppose to run HDMI is 15', no?

Thanks VERY much for any help. It is appreciated.

I have an HDMI/DVI Monster adaptor and don't see a hitch on the change over. It's such a small change over I don't thing anyone will ever notice anything.

Tom, what would be the best value for ftls?

I'm getting an Optoma Graywolf soon. Which is a 106" gray 1.8 gain screen. It's low priced and in pulll down form. Once I get it I'll do a review in the screens forum. I'll let you know. There's a good chance you'll be albe to buy it from the AVS people at a discount over the MSRP which is $299.

Tom,
I just bought an H77, my basement theater room can be totally black, or slightly lit by some wall sconces on a dim switch. I want both movies in the dark to be great, as well as a well lit room displaying NFL football with my friends. Do you recommend staying with a white sreen like yours or Hi Def grey? Of all the material choices such as cinema vision and Da-Mat, I'm not sure what's best. Your help would be great. (I plan on a fixed frame screen).

Thanks
Corey

The projector's bright, but what we'er going for lately is extratbright power to spare. So get yourself a higher gained screen like the Dalite High Power, Optoma Graywolf or Vultec Silverstar. Dalite and Optoma being the bargin deals.

Tom,

I thought I read somewhere that the SilverStar was not an optimal choice for the Optoma...

As the Optoma has to be mounted with the lens within the borders of the screen and the SilverStar was optimized for a ceiling mounted projector.....?

I thought the conventional thought was that the Optoma would do best with something like the High Power screen.........

Looking forward to your Greywolf review....... do you know what it's characteristics are as they relate to viewing cone and retro reflective nature?

I think I'm finally ready to make a decision and go with the H77. My only area of concern is the lack of HDMI-in on the projector. Am I really missing out on anything using a DVI to HDMI adapter? You will be missing audio which can be sent over HDMI. HDI can send 10 bit signals but that point is moot becasue the PJ has DVI so it only accepts a DVI signal, regardless of the cable you use.

The HDMI vs. DVI thread went way over my head, but mentioned that going straight from HDMI out to HDMI in is better during motion / panning, which is my biggest pet peeve. Again, this point is moot. The PJ does not have HDMI, and using an adapter only make it so you can use a different "wire" (HDMI cable), it does not turn the signal into a HDMI signal. The PJ will still be using a DVI signal.

I'll have 4 sources to run to the H77:
D* HD DVR w/ HDMI-out
Progressive Scan DVD Player (make/model yet to be determined) w/ HDMI-out
HTPC w/ DVI-out
Xbox w/ Component RGB-out

Since there's only one DVI-in on the projector, I'll need a selector / switch of some sort, no? Is there a selector that has 1 DVI or HDMI out, 3 HDMI-in and 1 Component RGB-in that anyone knows of or would suggest? Yes, you will require a switcher. Gefen has one with HDMIx4, dont' kow the model number. You can use a DVI adapter on it's output to the PJ, and on it's input from the PC.

If at all possible, I'd like to keep the cables I have to run up to the projector to a minimum. One HDMI-DVI cable would be great. Unfortunately, there's about 20' of distance to cover from the projector to the DVD Player / HD Receiver rack. If I remember right, the max you're suppose to run HDMI is 15', no? No, it's longer, but not for you. HDMI protocol has error correction, DVI does not. Even though you can use a HDMI cable (don't recommend it), your PJ will still hav eto have the DVI signal which does not have any error correction. You can go 30 (some say 50) feet with DVI before you get bit errors which show up as "sparklies". This is dependent on cable quality. My 30' DVI cable came from Vinc and works OK. I tried some that did not work. If I were buying today, I'd try a DVI from bluejeanscable.com. Where ever you get it from, be SURE you can return it if it does not work without sparklies.

Unless you get a transcoder (component to DVI) then you'll have to have a component cable set, too. I'm using a Lumagen scaler. It allows for (2) DVI and (1) component in but transcodes to (1) DVI out. That would preclude the need for a super PgScn DVD since the Lumagen can do the deinterlacing. I SDI modified a Denon 2900 but I know that's not a task for everyone. The Pioneer 59avi has 480i out over HDMI, but if you go with component out you could use your pre-amp/processor/receiver to switch the component, and thus use a Lumagen to both scale AND switch. You save the switcher, and the extra component, and a less expensive DVD player, and get the superior Scaler (HDP model) for the incremental difference.

HTH, Scott

That was helpful, I'lll shop around for the models you mentioned. Since my room is longer, not wider, I think the high gain still won't affect viewing angle at all. This H77 is ceiling mounted, that doesn't change aynthing right?

Thanks
Corey

Great stuff Scott. Very helpful. Thanks for taking the time to spell it out for me.

I'm disappointed to find out that the lack of HDMI will ultimately result in the inability to use 10 bit over 8 bit, along with the lack of error correcting. Perhaps I should look elsewhere than the H77.

That was helpful, I'lll shop around for the models you mentioned. Since my room is longer, not wider, I think the high gain still won't affect viewing angle at all. This H77 is ceiling mounted, that doesn't change aynthing right?

Thanks
Corey

Dalight HP will give you near 2.0 with the ceiling mount. I measured the difference with my light meter. Seating is mainly in front of the screen. I can't really get off to the sides and don't see a large drop off when I'm viewing at the side of the screen. Which I'm doing now by the way, news is talking about bombs going off in London.

Gary I hope you and anybody you know weren't effected. Pretty sad state of affairs with mankind in such a late year of existence to be plagued by vermin. How long/

Optoma (Panoview) GrayWolf info:

http://www.optomausa.com/optomausa/doc/screen/GrayWolf_DS92106PM.pdf

Looks interesting.

Jay

great help Tom thanks. I'll go with the da lite high power and see what happens. Although I didn't plan on spending a grand!
Corey

I'm getting an Optoma Graywolf soon. Which is a 106" gray 1.8 gain screen. It's low priced and in pulll down form. Once I get it I'll do a review in the screens forum. I'll let you know. There's a good chance you'll be albe to buy it from the AVS people at a discount over the MSRP which is $299.

Has anyone evaluated this screen yet? Can't find any info in the screens forum... MSRP of $299 for a 106" pull-down? That seems very cheap! Does AVS have pricing on these yet? I would be looking for a 106" 16:9 fixed wall screen.

How would this screen in a 106" work with a H77 (H78 upgraded)?

There were some questions about its glass beading vs. the micro-beading on the HP. Let Tom (or better yet, Tryg...) get a review up. Pulldown screens can be very susceptible to "waving", and you'd hate to get a bad one if the money is dear. If you can float a bit more money, the HP is a good bet from our hosts here at AVS and is a known quantity with respect to performance (I like mine...).

Darin bought two of them. They only have pull down models now. I mentioned to them it would be good to add fixed screens to the line.

Anyway the big drawback on pull down screens is they can pick up waves, but from what Darin tells me, it reflects like the High Power material and you can't notice waves when video is shot on it. I'll be receiving a 106" anyday now. Check with AVS see if you can get some pricing on it.

They just told me my screen will be at my house today.

HDMI protocol has error correction, DVI does not.I do not think this is correct. DVI and HDMI use the same underlying physical layer. I think that HDMI's supposed robustness advantage comes from stricter standards and specifications on cabling and electrical performance, not any additional error correction. But heck, I'm not even going to believe myself on that score until I see it in the spec. And I don't see error correction.

There were some questions about its glass beading vs. the micro-beading on the HP. Let Tom (or better yet, Tryg...) get a review up. Pulldown screens can be very susceptible to "waving", and you'd hate to get a bad one if the money is dear. If you can float a bit more money, the HP is a good bet from our hosts here at AVS and is a known quantity with respect to performance (I like mine...).


Seems like the HP will have more gain then I need.. I also like the idea of the "grey" screen since my room has lighter colored walls. I currently have a HCCV from Da-Lite and really don't care for the sparkles in bright scenes/areas. Was looking at the Carada screens but the Greywolf caught my eye. Be interesting to see the review on this screen. Any other reasonably priced grey screens with 1.5 - 2.0 gain?

RK

Darin bought two of them. They only have pull down models now. I mentioned to them it would be good to add fixed screens to the line.

Anyway the big drawback on pull down screens is they can pick up waves, but from what Darin tells me, it reflects like the High Power material and you can't notice waves when video is shot on it. I'll be receiving a 106" anyday now. Check with AVS see if you can get some pricing on it.

They just told me my screen will be at my house today.


yeah, I need a fixed wall screen so I guess I need to keep looking.. How much gain is recommended for a H77/H78 upgrade on a 110" screen. My walls are somewhat dark but my ceiling is a lighter tan color if that makes any difference. I generally prefer a bright image but don't want a "hot" spot on the screen due to high gain..

Thanks for the feedback!

RK

If that's 110" wide, then a 1.3 gain screen is a minimum - it will give you 11.7ft lamberts which is almost 12ft lambrts that is recomended for theater levels of reflectance.

That figure will diminish over time as the lamp ages and dims, but you could of course go to high lamp mode if you wanted more brightness. I'm not sure if a higher gain screen would give you other problems such as hotspotting or sparklies, but many recommend the high power which can give a little more than 1.5 if seated near to the pj so much of the gain reflects towards you as well as the pj.

Gary.

I don't see hot spotting or sparklies with the HP material. I was talking to Wing today and should get the H77upgraded pj soon. He said one of his engineers was swamped that's why the delay. Once I get the PJ I'll tell you have it's handled with the HP and Graywolf screen.

Oh Darin if you're out there check your PM. They do deal with outside inventors :) I want a cut. ;)

If that's 110" wide, then a 1.3 gain screen is a minimum - it will give you 11.7ft lamberts which is almost 12ft lambrts that is recomended for theater levels of reflectance.

That figure will diminish over time as the lamp ages and dims, but you could of course go to high lamp mode if you wanted more brightness. I'm not sure if a higher gain screen would give you other problems such as hotspotting or sparklies, but many recommend the high power which can give a little more than 1.5 if seated near to the pj so much of the gain reflects towards you as well as the pj.

Gary.


110" diagonal... I thought the HP was 2.8 gain not 1.5? Any disadvantages to bright mode? I suppose the fan is louder, how much? Anything else?

What is the formula for ft/lamberts?

The H77 has close to 500 lumen calibrated. How much more do we lose from the lamp over time?

Thanks!!!!
RK

Lumens divided by square feet, then times the screen gain.

You can get the 2.8 if you mount the PJ on a shelf close to the viewing level. Since my PJ is down from the ceiling 1.75ft and is closer to the eye I got a .8 drop from the HP's gain.

I am curious as to how often most H77 ownwers need to adjust the focus on their projectors. I am currently on my third H77. With the first one, I set the focus on the projector and it stayed in focus up until the unit died on me, which was after 29 hours of use. Optoma sent me a second H77, but I was never able to focus it properly. I described the problem to an Optoma tech and he said that there was an internal problem with the lens and told me to send the unit back as DOA. I am now on my third H77, and while this one focuses adequately, I find that I need to refocus it every time that I turn it on, and sometimes after I change a DVD. This is my first projector, so I don't know if this common or if there is something wrong with this unit as well.

the HP is retro-reflective so it sends the light back to the source, and if you want to realise the full gain capabilities your head will have to be where the projector is.

If the pj is ceiling mounted, the bigger the angle to the seating postion, the less gain you get, hence the 1.5 guestimation. I mentioned the hi power because, as Tom says, it doesn't seem to suffer from hot spots or sparklies like some other high gain materials seem to.

I can't see any other drawbacks from high lamp except perhaps reduced contrast due to more light bouncing around within the lens (and the fan noise of course).

My H77 was 398 low lamp, and 510 lumens hi lamp at D65 but I think that can drop by 50 lumens after another 200 hours. I might try to check mine after another 100 hours and see at what rate it's dropping.

Gary.

No problem with focus with my the H77 and H79. I go up to the screen and bump the focus button for the sharpest spot, usually clicking the focus to the right. Anytime I would re-visit the focus Icon it would still be sharp.

Hi Tom,

Do you notice any difference in sharpness between the two? I just wonder if there is a noticable difference in the lenses.

Gary.

Well yeah come to think of it the H79 does look crisper from what I remember about the H77. I'll get a better idea once they send me the H77 w/upgrade.

Questions have been asked about will the H77 be discontinued, will the new stock have the upgrade. No the H77 won't be discontinued, well at some it will but not in the near future. And no to new stock already coming with the upgrade. Anyone knowledgeable to know about the upgrade and think they would need or want it will have the option to send it in. Timing's not set just yet, but soon. We hv to get this beta period out of the way.

About 2 days ago my H77 would power up, but the lamp would not be on, then the LED would flash red. If physically turn the power swith off, then on again, and then hit the "power" button on the remote, the lamp will then turn on. Sometimes I have to repeat these steps 2 or 3 times before the lamp will turn on.

There have been no power spikes, outages, or anything like that, and the unit has been ceiling mounted since day 1. This seems to have just started happening out of the blue. Is this a sign that the lamp is going bad? Or is this a problem with the projector?

Well yeah come to think of it the H79 does look crisper from what I remember about the H77. I'll get a better idea once they send me the H77 w/upgrade.

Questions have been asked about will the H77 be discontinued, will the new stock have the upgrade. No the H77 won't be discontinued, well at some it will but not in the near future. And no to new stock already coming with the upgrade. Anyone knowledgeable to know about the upgrade and think they would need or want it will have the option to send it in. Timing's not set just yet, but soon. We hv to get this beta period out of the way.

I did speak to Optoma regarding the differences between the two, the "H77 - H78 upgrade" and other related Optoma issues.

snip...

I also spoke at length on Thurday to Optoma (US) product manager and head technician - and asked many of the questions that everyone is speculating on. Hope you find some of this interesting.

1. H77 to H78 upgrade (for US market) - being considered now. However they advised that the major improvement (and why its available in Europe) is in handling PAL signals. The benefit for NTSC signals is extremely minor and they indicated that most might not be able to tell the difference. AND No, it would not upgrade the DLP chip to a DC3 - which would be obvious!

snip...



So Tom says that Optoma is telling him that future H77s will not have the upgrade built into them and Art says that Optoma is considering incorporating the change in future H77s, but that the benefit will be minor for NTSC signals. Yet those who have seen the upgrade say that it improves the panning issue considerably. So who really knows what is going on?

I must say that watching this whole H77/H78DC3/H79 thing play out on this forum over the past few weeks and months sure has caused me to question the quality of Optoma products and their people.

Tom

Well yeah come to think of it the H79 does look crisper from what I remember about the H77. I'll get a better idea once they send me the H77 w/upgrade.

Questions have been asked about will the H77 be discontinued, will the new stock have the upgrade. No the H77 won't be discontinued, well at some it will but not in the near future. And no to new stock already coming with the upgrade. Anyone knowledgeable to know about the upgrade and think they would need or want it will have the option to send it in. Timing's not set just yet, but soon. We hv to get this beta period out of the way.

Last week I requested a quote from Jason (AVS) for the H77 and he told me it had been discontinued. With reported low lumens on the H78DC3 and the current street price on the H77 I am seriously considering the H77. The deciding factor will be if the H78 (panning fix) becomes available to all.

About 2 days ago my H77 would power up, but the lamp would not be on, then the LED would flash red. If physically turn the power swith off, then on again, and then hit the "power" button on the remote, the lamp will then turn on. Sometimes I have to repeat these steps 2 or 3 times before the lamp will turn on.

There have been no power spikes, outages, or anything like that, and the unit has been ceiling mounted since day 1. This seems to have just started happening out of the blue. Is this a sign that the lamp is going bad? Or is this a problem with the projector?

Chris, any nagging problems you should talk to the tech area and get warranty repair.

I had my H77 ceiling mounted and always keep it in standby. One thing that did pop up was it powered off on it's own quiet a few times, just to test I took the machine down and viewed it right side up and it would never power down. When I called about it they said some kind of short and would give me an RMA. So any persistant problem make use of the warranty while you can.

So Tom says that Optoma is telling him that future H77s will not have the upgrade built into them and Art says that Optoma is considering incorporating the change in future H77s, but that the benefit will be minor for NTSC signals. Yet those who have seen the upgrade say that it improves the panning issue considerably. So who really knows what is going on?

I must say that watching this whole H77/H78DC3/H79 thing play out on this forum over the past few weeks and months sure has caused me to question the quality of Optoma products and their people.

Tom

I talk directly with the Engineering Mgr. Just the other day I asked these specific questions re the upgrade on future stock and if they be discontinuing the H77. I got a clear no and no. He said ofcourse the H77 won't continue for ever the HD2+ chip will eventually be non-existent, the Dark Chip3 will remain. This has to do with Ti and progress. Still a good chip for now so get them while you can at the low market level.

Tom, Hey got the 77 mounted , ceiling, wires ect. mostly all run {temp] right now! Coolest thing i ever saw! Haven't done alot of adj. yet, want to wait til every thing is in it's perm. place.
However there's a serious prob., well i hope not, On the one dvd and most all tv channels there is a apx. 3" horz.translusent line from extreme left to right, scrolling slowly from bottom to top of screen in purpleish/pink followed by a lime greenish color stripe. always! sometimes brighter then others. wife wouldnt even watch it! Like i said ,haven't done much adj. don't realy know what to do yet.still figuring out remotes ect. I ran component ,77 to denon 3805. comp. 3805 to h10 stb. comp. 3805 to dvd. and optics. screen size is 70" diag. What would cause this and is it fixable? The picture is great other then these @# lines. gonna call tech today .
Any ideas ? thanks ,mojo from maryland..

I had this type of problem once from the power source (not on a H77 but). Moved the power to an isolated outlet and line went away..

BTW: I pull the trigger on a H77 today. Got a unbelieveble price with a free bulb and 3rd year warranty! Can't wait to see this thing!! Hoping the upgrade is offered soon so I can send it in before mounting it..

HTAddict

Hey Mr. htaddict,

Could you send me an email as to price and where? I'm a fellow Minnesotan. Where are ya from. I'm in Mound, a suburb of Mpls.

scottyb@scottyb.com

Thanks,
Scott

Tom, Hey got the 77 mounted , ceiling, wires ect. mostly all run {temp] right now! Coolest thing i ever saw! Haven't done alot of adj. yet, want to wait til every thing is in it's perm. place.
However there's a serious prob., well i hope not, On the one dvd and most all tv channels there is a apx. 3" horz.translusent line from extreme left to right, scrolling slowly from bottom to top of screen in purpleish/pink followed by a lime greenish color stripe. always! sometimes brighter then others. wife wouldnt even watch it! Like i said ,haven't done much adj. don't realy know what to do yet.still figuring out remotes ect. I ran component ,77 to denon 3805. comp. 3805 to h10 stb. comp. 3805 to dvd. and optics. screen size is 70" diag. What would cause this and is it fixable? The picture is great other then these @# lines. gonna call tech today .
Any ideas ? thanks ,mojo from maryland..

Looks good heh, nice deep colors especially red. That problem is a common one, it's called a ground loop. You can delete it as a test with a cheat plug the one that deletes the third ground.

mojo66

cheater plugs are only a troubleshooting device. Hire an AV electrician to install per the NEC!

You know in the past with the NEC LT150z I used a cheat plug to delete the waves, nothing blew up. Did anyone ever have something blow up using a cheat plug?

Scott What are you going to do with two H77s stackum for for more depth and brightness? :D

Dale

Tom, Hey got the 77 mounted , ceiling, wires ect. mostly all run {temp] right now! Coolest thing i ever saw! Haven't done alot of adj. yet, want to wait til every thing is in it's perm. place.
However there's a serious prob., well i hope not, On the one dvd and most all tv channels there is a apx. 3" horz.translusent line from extreme left to right, scrolling slowly from bottom to top of screen in purpleish/pink followed by a lime greenish color stripe. always! sometimes brighter then others. wife wouldnt even watch it! Like i said ,haven't done much adj. don't realy know what to do yet.still figuring out remotes ect. I ran component ,77 to denon 3805. comp. 3805 to h10 stb. comp. 3805 to dvd. and optics. screen size is 70" diag. What would cause this and is it fixable? The picture is great other then these @# lines. gonna call tech today .
Any ideas ? thanks ,mojo from maryland..


I had this problem and it turned out to be a ground loop caused by my comcast cable box. If you are using a cable box try disconnecting it and see if the lines go away. If so, then you can correct the problem with this http://store.yahoo.com/yhst-3455591325931/jen-vrd1ff.html

I solved my ground loop with the Holland CISP for $12 at http://www.cencom94.com/gpage.html8.html

Worked great and does not interfeare with HD.

Tom,Rich,chris and kras: Thanks for responding. Yea I think your all right. #1 removing the grnd. on pj ac worked. There should be some kind of suppressor for the ac end that would allow the grnd. to still be conected I would think? #2 Also changing component cable from pj to amp. from 50' [projector people purchased] kinda cheap, to a temporary 4.5 meter audioquest yiq-g comp. cable also stopped the color scroll. looks fine, only prob. is I need 25-30' min. and I can't aford the audioquest cable price for one that long. why would an Isolator help in seriesw\the coax lines if prob. is on the ac of pj.?
I'm sure all wiring is up to code cause I did it including dedicated circuit. been doing elevator control work for over 30 yrs. but don't crap about pj's ect. YET thanks again guys, I'm on the right track. mojo

Some questions regarding the H77...

1. I'm worried about ceiling mounting the H77 on a 9ft ceiling. How low do I have to drop the projector due to the zero offset?

2. Also, I'm thinking about doing this: http://www.projectorcentral.com/great_home_theater.htm and based on my calculations, I can mount the projector at 17.2 ft for a 110" (96x54) 16x9 screen and then switch over to 4x3 and zoom it up to 1.34x and get a 120" (96x72) screen and lens shift it up and mask the bottom... But it recommends a higher brightness so can I just kick it up on the projector or is it too loud, fan wise?

3. Which screen and gain is recommended for someone who likes to entertain during the day and light sconces on dim for movie viewing...

4. I need a good reason to step out of the budget boundary on this one so I'll need some good ammo against the boss/wife... :D...

At that size, you will want a high gain screen - especially with ambient light, unless you want to run on high and change bulbs early. Also, people tend to zoom in for 4:3, not zoom out, but if you can get the masking, this will work. I'd be concerned about brightness (H79 would be better here), but Tom will probably disagree with me! ;)

IMHO, the fan is too loud on high, so it doesn't fly in my theater. However, you may have yours back far enough to do this.

Finally, with a 72" tall screen, the question is how far off the floor/ceiling do you want the screen? If it is centered on the wall, then you need ~15" - 18" drop.

1. I'm worried about ceiling mounting the H77 on a 9ft ceiling. How low do I have to drop the projector due to the zero offset?

It has been reported that the center of the lens can be about 6"-7" higher then the screen although specs state it has to be deal on (100% shift).

2. Also, I'm thinking about doing this: http://www.projectorcentral.com/great_home_theater.htm and based on my calculations, I can mount the projector at 17.2 ft for a 110" (96x54) 16x9 screen and then switch over to 4x3 and zoom it up to 1.34x and get a 120" (96x72) screen and lens shift it up and mask the bottom... But it recommends a higher brightness so can I just kick it up on the projector or is it too loud, fan wise?

Why?, most all HD and DVDs are going to be widescreen (1.78:1+) and if you are watching SD (4:3) cable the smaller the image the better it will look. So when the quality drops (SD/4:3) you actually plan to increase the image size? If you think about widescreen it is suppose to simply be an "wide" extension to your image, in other words your images stays the same size but get wider. Everyone has there own opinion I guess.

3. Which screen and gain is recommended for someone who likes to entertain during the day and light sconces on dim for movie viewing...

If you don't have light control I would not plan to watch movies during the day with this projector. I is just my opinion and I can state from experience with the H77 but most PJs have a very tuff time with day light. The 7205/7210 may be a better option if you need to view in day light.

4. I need a good reason to step out of the budget boundary on this one so I'll need some good ammo against the boss/wife... :D...[/QUOTE]

Good luck.. I am lucky, my wife said normally supports my purchases. One trick is to spend a LOT of time reading up on this stuff and tell her all about it, the benefits of the one you want (H77) and sooner or later she will get sick of hearing all the technical talk and just tell you to get it. Anyway it turns out just be sure to watch a "wife" movie with her the first time and she will be blown away!

RK

I'd pair up the H77 with a high power screen or anything approaching 2.0 gain. Blacks won't be hurt and you'll have brightness to spare.

Try to get the Projectors lens at the top or bottom of the screens video area. You can push it a some inches but you're stretching the shift beyond it's best point. Maxing out can cuase a color halo.

Tom - I'm not sure where you are getting "brightness to spare" from. Some quick math:
A 96x54 screen is 36 square feet. Assuming 400 lumens from a new bulb, you get ~11ftL, which is good in a light controlled room. Add 2.0 gain, which may be optimistic with anything other than a Vutec Silverstar, and you are just south of TV brightness (~24ftL). The lamp will lose light output pretty quickly in the first few hundred hours (~25%), so factor that into the equation as at some point needing to shift from low to high lamp mode.

So, now that you have achieved TV brightness, what does it look like? Well, that depends upon where the light is coming from and what screen material you are using. High gain screens are more directional, so that helps. However, with that large of a screen, placement becomes critical. Also, when you are talking daylight, how much daylight is there? If it is a lot, and some of it falls on the screen, then the image may be completely washed out. Take a look at the recent ambient light/light control threads for discussions on this.

Buff - As I said, I think you are pushing the envelope for what the H77 can do here, and I'd think the H79 or IF7210 would be better. However, it's your money.

Later,
Bill

guitarman

Do not even try to justify the cheater plugs. You are removing the safety ground. If your device ever has a grounding fault - then YOU become the safety ground. YOU will blow up.

Tom - I'm not sure where you are getting "brightness to spare" from. Some quick math:
A 96x54 screen is 36 square feet. Assuming 400 lumens from a new bulb, you get ~11ftL, which is good in a light controlled room. Add 2.0 gain, which may be optimistic with anything other than a Vutec Silverstar, and you are just south of TV brightness (~24ftL). The lamp will lose light output pretty quickly in the first few hundred hours (~25%), so factor that into the equation as at some point needing to shift from low to high lamp mode.

So, now that you have achieved TV brightness, what does it look like? Well, that depends upon where the light is coming from and what screen material you are using. High gain screens are more directional, so that helps. However, with that large of a screen, placement becomes critical. Also, when you are talking daylight, how much daylight is there? If it is a lot, and some of it falls on the screen, then the image may be completely washed out. Take a look at the recent ambient light/light control threads for discussions on this.

Buff - As I said, I think you are pushing the envelope for what the H77 can do here, and I'd think the H79 or IF7210 would be better. However, it's your money.

Later,
Bill

My guess is Tom was referring to my post but maybe I am wrong... I don't see anywhere that he referred to "TV Brightness" and a recommend/optimized front projector setup for movie watching in no where near 24 ftL. I think I recall it being 14 - 16 ftL. Now I know some people prefer brighter images and in that case, yes the 7205/7210 is really going to be the best bet especially if you are fighting ambient light!! But then IMO I don't think any PJ/screen combo with an exception of the new black screens will give you a quality movie image. Maybe it's just me, I like black to be black and an image to 3D depth..

Not trying to argue he just commenting..

RK

The sharp Z2000 is a brighter projector. Color are not compleatly acurate, but It could be an option. I measured 50% more brightness over my H77 in high contrast and 100% in high brightness.

Bruno

My guess is Tom was referring to my post but maybe I am wrong... I don't see anywhere that he referred to "TV Brightness" and a recommend/optimized front projector setup for movie watching in no where near 24 ftL. I think I recall it being 14 - 16 ftL. Now I know some people prefer brighter images and in that case, yes the 7205/7210 is really going to be the best bet especially if you are fighting ambient light!! But then IMO I don't think any PJ/screen combo with an exception of the new black screens will give you a quality movie image. Maybe it's just me, I like black to be black and an image to 3D depth..

Not trying to argue he just commenting..

RK

That's what I meant. Start out a little higher by using a higher gain screen, enjoy the brightness at it is if you like it or add a ND filter to get closer to 12ftl. Take the filter off with bulb age, set the PJ to bright mode, you got options this way.

I'm liking the colors/blacks and calmer brightness the Graywolf has given for the H79 ceiling mounted. The Graywolf might work with the H77 if you shelf mounted the PJ near viewing level.

guitarman

Do not even try to justify the cheater plugs. You are removing the safety ground. If your device ever has a grounding fault - then YOU become the safety ground. YOU will blow up.

We were using cheat plugs all thru the 60's with Fender amps. No one ever blew up. They may have taken off a little. lol

My guess is Tom was referring to my post but maybe I am wrong... I don't see anywhere that he referred to "TV Brightness" and a recommend/optimized front projector setup for movie watching in no where near 24 ftL. I think I recall it being 14 - 16 ftL. Now I know some people prefer brighter images and in that case, yes the 7205/7210 is really going to be the best bet especially if you are fighting ambient light!! But then IMO I don't think any PJ/screen combo with an exception of the new black screens will give you a quality movie image. Maybe it's just me, I like black to be black and an image to 3D depth..

Not trying to argue he just commenting..

RK

My assumption was that both of you were referring to BuffBakerGA, and I was the one that brought up TV brightness since you both seemed to be offering advice to someone looking to use the H77 with a large screen with a high degree of ambient light (People can relate to "TV Brightness" easier than they can relate to foot-Lamberts). Conventional wisdom has movie brightness at 12ftL (15ftL with an open gate, IIRC), with TV brightness at around double that. I gave this number for reference for Buff's perspective. The H77 will be able to light up a screen during daylight as big as he seems to be planning, but only really when the bulb is new - depending upon how much ambient light he really has, and only when paired with a high gain screen that works with a ceiling mount. Since he doesn't seem to like a bat cave (and does like to entertain), the H79 or 72xx are better fits, IMHO.

I talked to Wing today about the H77 upgrade. Told him to cancel the one he was going to send me. I told him the early beta testors are happy with the advancement. He said he would forward over to the tech area to make it available to anyone that wants it. So call into the tech area to see if they got the word yet, anybody that wants it.

Who's getting the upgrade?

I convinced a good friend to buy one. He actually received it today. I lend him my H77+ (modified) so he could compare both machine. I'm convinced he will want the mod too. I watch the Catwoman scene before lending the projector to him and I can believe how much smoother pan is right now. Even if the upgrade doesn't give you higher lumens the better panning make this upgrade a sure investment.

Bruno

Tom - Good news. I'll give them a call in the morning.

You know the guys are juiced up for the H79 and new H78 but the H77 HD2+ is no slouch. My first impression of the machine was the great colors and the blacks. The opinion hasn't changed. In fact I'm happier now with the H79 and the Graywolf Screen. I'm much closer to what I liked about my H77 setup. It's all good

We were using cheat plugs all thru the 60's with Fender amps. No one ever blew up. They may have taken off a little. lol

Speaking of cheater plugs.. I use them at work all the time.. got to float the scopes while tracing down noise sources..

Just today I had the transmitter fired up tracking down some thyratron noise that was getting into the receiver.. the only way to really look at this stuff is to float all the test equipment.. since the transmitters on 400Hz and the test equipment is on 60Hz.. thats one ugly ground loop.. not to mention the dozen other loops in the transmitter and receiver that I'm trying to untangle.. :( it seems the original designers didn't believe in single point grounding.. :eek:

Now I don't suggest cheating when it comes to your theater.. its not going to hurt anything as long as your cords aren't long.. (inductance) but they are usefull to track down any loops so you can then work out a proper solution. Just to make it clear CHEATERS are not a proper solution!

I talked to Wing today about the H77 upgrade. Told him to cancel the one he was going to send me. I told him the early beta testors are happy with the advancement. He said he would forward over to the tech area to make it available to anyone that wants it. So call into the tech area to see if they got the word yet, anybody that wants it.

Who's getting the upgrade?

Perhaps I called too early this morning, but they are still indicating that it is still in beta. I'll try this again this afternoon, but it would be great if someone else would give this a shot.

Later,
Bill

Does anybody know if the H77 works with a pioneer 59AVI DVD player?

Bruno

I got my H77 back yesterday, and can confirm what everybody else is seeing. After sampling different material and putting about 10 hours on the lamp. The panning is about 90% corrected. Tested with all the torture test DVDs and Sports viewing both in 720HP and 1080I. They did a great job with this upgrade.

My projector first come back after the upgrade was done and it was DOA. Sent it back and it ended up being the main board was bad.

Contrast and Brightness about the same. With the current low street price along with upgrade make it a very good deal.

Dale

I got my H77 back yesterday, and can confirm what everybody else is seeing. After sampling different material and putting about 10 hours on the lamp. The panning is about 90% corrected. Tested with all the torture test DVDs and Sports viewing both in 720HP and 1080I. They did a great job with this upgrade.

My projector first come back after the upgrade was done and it was DOA. Sent it back and it ended up being the main board was bad.

Contrast and Brightness about the same. With the current low street price along with upgrade make it a very good deal.

Dale

So my only question is to contact Optoma and send it in ASAP or wait until they have done a few more and get over the initial rush? My brand new H77 will be arriving tomorrow and I am thinking I will use it for a few weeks then send her in.. What's turn time on this upgrade? I have been watching the forum for some time now and this pj really does seem to be a GREAT deal!

RK

Tom, Got those pink and green lines OUT OF THE PITCURE! Like ya said cheater plug worked,but so did the new cable. Put the pj plug back to normal and swapped out the 50' PP cable for a 25' ar reserch one { which is 3 times as thick} and cleaned the picture right up. No cable left to spare at all but all is good. thanks everybody for the help. mojo..
p.s. Iwould stay away from proj. people's cables,alot of extra work for nothing! Ya get what you pay for..

Holy crap. I was pretty well set on a PE7700, but I found a really great price on the H77 to bring it into the ballpark. The only glaring downside I see is the lack of HDMI input. I'd have to raise the optical zoom on the H77 quite a bit (1.25x) to get a decent size image (100") at 12.5' throw distance. The calculator puts that at 17ftL which may be less brightness than is needed for optimum picture quality?

So torn...I've read everything I can get my eyes on over and over and over again. Hard decision :eek: Of course, most people in this thread will obviously suggest the H77 and the PE7700 thread will suggest the 7700.

Smooth.....

It all depends on your room setup, ambient light issues, type and size of screen, etc....

Personally I don't have either of these projectors...(I have the older BenQ 8700+), but of the two I would select the H77 at the current price point.

Holy crap. I was pretty well set on a PE7700, but I found a really great price on the H77 to bring it into the ballpark. The only glaring downside I see is the lack of HDMI input. I'd have to raise the optical zoom on the H77 quite a bit (1.25x) to get a decent size image (100") at 12.5' throw distance. The calculator puts that at 17ftL which may be less brightness than is needed for optimum picture quality?

So torn...I've read everything I can get my eyes on over and over and over again. Hard decision :eek: Of course, most people in this thread will obviously suggest the H77 and the PE7700 thread will suggest the 7700.

Why is HDMI so much better then DVI? If this were a receiver, DVD, HDTV STB I can see the benefit for audio but you don't need audio at the pj.. You can alway adapter DVI to HDMI at the pj if needed. And for performance I would be supprised if anyone who has seen both would not clearly recommend the H77 for better contrast, picture, and sound level... I haven't seen either so I am only basing these comments on what I have read.. I ordered H77 myself. I think 17ft is above recommend for theater experience but the bulb will dim with age.. Get a High Gain screen!

Why is HDMI so much better then DVI?

HDMI allows for some additional features that are disabled when you revert back to the DVI spec (the cabling also seems to be to a higher quality, better build spec). The major advantage for HDMI is the ability to send YPbPr data digitally. This allows the deeper color conversions in most projectors (e.g., 10-bit), rather than the 8-bit conversion that is typical for most source materials.

Audio and other stuff is largely irrelevant, and the "superior cabling spec" holds whether you pop an HDMI->DVI converter on the end of the cable or not (i.e., it is merely a physical property of the cable, and is really not relevant to the interface on the projector itself).

HDMI allows for some additional features that are disabled when you revert back to the DVI spec (the cabling also seems to be to a higher quality, better build spec). The major advantage for HDMI is the ability to send YPbPr data digitally. This allows the deeper color conversions in most projectors (e.g., 10-bit), rather than the 8-bit conversion that is typical for most source materials.

Audio and other stuff is largely irrelevant, and the "superior cabling spec" holds whether you pop an HDMI->DVI converter on the end of the cable or not (i.e., it is merely a physical property of the cable, and is really not relevant to the interface on the projector itself).

OK, does any one have any pictures that would show a actual improvement in image quality? I have doubts that there is any "visible" benefit to HDMI...

Holy crap. I was pretty well set on a PE7700, but I found a really great price on the H77 to bring it into the ballpark. The only glaring downside I see is the lack of HDMI input. I'd have to raise the optical zoom on the H77 quite a bit (1.25x) to get a decent size image (100") at 12.5' throw distance. The calculator puts that at 17ftL which may be less brightness than is needed for optimum picture quality?

So torn...I've read everything I can get my eyes on over and over and over again. Hard decision :eek: Of course, most people in this thread will obviously suggest the H77 and the PE7700 thread will suggest the 7700.


I am exactly in the same situation as you. What made you decide for the H77. What is the price difference you can get?

I have a small problem with throw distance, as my projector mount would need to move back 12 inches, and even though there is room, there is no where to hang the mount.

Why is HDMI so much better then DVI? If this were a receiver, DVD, HDTV STB I can see the benefit for audio but you don't need audio at the pj.. You can alway adapter DVI to HDMI at the pj if needed. And for performance I would be supprised if anyone who has seen both would not clearly recommend the H77 for better contrast, picture, and sound level... I haven't seen either so I am only basing these comments on what I have read.. I ordered H77 myself. I think 17ft is above recommend for theater experience but the bulb will dim with age.. Get a High Gain screen!

Sound level? Kinda confused there.

It was suggested to me that proper calibration cuts the lumen output roughly in half and that 10-12ftL is the sweet spot. That could have been misinformation, I suppose. Assuming the info was correct, that means at 17ftL properly calibrated would be 8.5 which is under the 10-12ftL sweet spot.

As far as light output goes for my throw distance (12.5') and desired screen size (~100" diagonal), the comparison would be:

H77 - 17ftL uncalibrated at a 1.25x zoom
PE7700 - 20ftL uncalibrated at 1.04x zoom (economy lamp mode puts it at 16ftL)

I'm not sure if the difference in zoom would make any difference in image quality. The less zoom used the better, from what I've read. Without using economy mode, the PE7700 would be the appropriate brightness with less zoom needed. The room will have some ambient light during the day, but its not an issue as I don't care what it looks like then. The best picture possible in complete dark at night is the priority.

I am exactly in the same situation as you. What made you decide for the H77. What is the price difference you can get?

I have a small problem with throw distance, as my projector mount would need to move back 12 inches, and even though there is room, there is no where to hang the mount.

Haven't decided quite yet. I believe I'm not supposed to talk about specific pricing or dealers on here so I'll be sending you a PM.

Once again, I appreciate the input from everyone. I'm making a purchase tomorrow (finally) but still on the fence. I've learned a great deal from all of you.

Sound level? Kinda confused there.

It was suggested to me that proper calibration cuts the lumen output roughly in half and that 10-12ftL is the sweet spot. That could have been misinformation, I suppose. Assuming the info was correct, that means at 17ftL properly calibrated would be 8.5 which is under the 10-12ftL sweet spot.

As far as light output goes for my throw distance (12.5') and desired screen size (~100" diagonal), the comparison would be:

H77 - 17ftL uncalibrated at a 1.25x zoom
PE7700 - 20ftL uncalibrated at 1.04x zoom (economy lamp mode puts it at 16ftL)

I'm not sure if the difference in zoom would make any difference in image quality. The less zoom used the better, from what I've read. Without using economy mode, the PE7700 would be the appropriate brightness with less zoom needed. The room will have some ambient light during the day, but its not an issue as I don't care what it looks like then. The best picture possible in complete dark at night is the priority.



Haven't decided quite yet. I believe I'm not supposed to talk about specific pricing or dealers on here so I'll be sending you a PM.

Once again, I appreciate the input from everyone. I'm making a purchase tomorrow (finally) but still on the fence. I've learned a great deal from all of you.

Sorry I meant "sound" not "sound level", sometimes my fingers type more then my brain is thinking..

As for the Lft you simply need to get a high gain screen.. Is there something you don't like about high gain screens? Even on the PE7700 you would want some gain because 50% of 20 lft is only going to give you 10 Lft and in dim mode 8 Lft. I am going with a 110" Da-lite High Power for my H77.

BTW: Not sure how you are calculating Lft..

H77 = 900 lumens "uncalibrated" (specs)
H77 = 450-500 Lumens "calibrated" (estimated)

100" screen = about 30 qft (actually little under)

30 Lft uncalibrated new lamp
15-20 Lft uncalibrated aged lamp

15-17 Lft "calibrated" new lamp
8-10 Lft "calibrated" aged lamp

Worst case:
8 Lft and high gain (1.5) = 12 Lft
8 Lft and high gain (2.0) = 16 Lft

Note: If you are ceiling mounting the PJ the Da-Lite HP (2.8) will provide about 1.5 at seating level.

The point I am trying to make is the little difference in lumen between then pjs can made up with the right screen. In this case the lumens should not be the deciding factor.

Hey Smooth,

I'm assuming there's a reason for installing your theater the direction you have it in your 3D renderings? Just seems to make more sense going the other direction. Just a curiosity question.

Scott

htaddict - good point. Makes sense. Problem is I'd planned on making a DIY blackout cloth screen and investing in a better screen later. The gain on the blackout cloth is a variable so it may not cut it. Spending another $750 on a screen is a bit much right now.

Scott - Good question. Something I've thought about before. Three main reasons.

1) Fireplace - I'd have to ceiling mount a pull down screen if we were to project that direction. It'd look a bit odd plus I'm not too sure about pull down screens with the wrinkling / warping issues I've read about.

2) The missing wall in the render doesn't exist. Its an open floor plan with a half wall on the couch side and a load-bearing beam half way across. Because of this, I couldn't set up a second row of seating on a raised platform so that'd leave us with one couch of seating and two useless chairs.

3) The top view shows where the attic access is. Mounting the projector any more than 10' across the room means I can't run the cables up into the attic, across and down the opposite wall.

It'd definitely be more theater-like to project the other way, but there'd have to be a pull down screen 1 ft farther forward than the fireplace, no seating and some sort of conduit running across the ceiling and down a wall due to no attic access. I think the fixed wall mounted screens look cleaner anyway.

Thanks for reminding me though. I need to put some effort into the rendering. I did that one in about 30-40 mins trying to show someone what I was talking about in a post. Pretty crude.

So Smooth......

Build the Blackout cloth screen for now, but know as the bulb ages you will need to replace that screen with a good "gain" screen. So save your pennies.......

Keep in mind with the new bulb you shouldn't have a problem. If the time comes that the bulb is too dim and you are not ready to buy the screen you could buy another bulb for half or less of the screen price and when you do get the screen both bulbs broken in and just the right brightness. Just a thought..

Might be better to spend the little extra now vs. feeling like you need to upgrade in a year. The biggest complaint I have in front projection is dark movies and contrast. The H77 is going to provide a lot better contrast for dark scenes/movies. Don't cut yourself short or you will regret it and end up upgrading and spending more in the long run.. What's an extra $800 on the old credit card :)

If you buy a pulldown screen get a C model not a B model. I have had both and had problems with waves and wrinkles on the B but have never had a problem with them on my C model. Yes it is more expensive but well worth the money.

Dale

All very good points.

Keep in mind with the new bulb you shouldn't have a problem. If the time comes that the bulb is too dim and you are not ready to buy the screen you could buy another bulb for half or less of the screen price and when you do get the screen both bulbs broken in and just the right brightness. Just a thought..

Might be better to spend the little extra now vs. feeling like you need to upgrade in a year. The biggest complaint I have in front projection is dark movies and contrast. The H77 is going to provide a lot better contrast for dark scenes/movies. Don't cut yourself short or you will regret it and end up upgrading and spending more in the long run.. What's an extra $800 on the old credit card :)

The difference is more like $250 between the two (I won't give actual prices), but the H77 has a guaranteed 15% restocking fee if its not defective. The 7700 comes with a 1-2 lamp hour grace period with no restocking fee.

Someone made a good point in a PM that the 7700 may be the better way to go if you watch a lot of TV due to the higher brightness, which I'd say is about 70% of the time for me, 20% games and 10% DVD. That may change with a projector of course. Comparing apples to apples at 12.5' throw, the 7700 does look to be noticeably brighter which may fit my needs better, especially after the lamp starts to dim. True, this could be adjusted for with a higher gain screen on the H77, but that also reduces viewing angle I believe, plus I don't want to be forced into a high gain screen in a month or two when it starts to dim. I'd also have to max out the zoom to get a ~100"+ screen i'm going for, which will make it even more dim.

So basically, my options are -

H77: zoom maxed out. 1.5 gain screen (expensive) required after any decent amount of lamp use.
7700: Very little zoom. 1.1 gain screen (cheap) and possibly a filter to start, remove the filter with lamp age. Less overall contrast, but the filter may help with that until the bulb ages, at which point the dimmer lamp may provide better contrast than a new bulb.

I hadn't considered a high gain screen, but with the H77, does the higher gain (ceiling mounted) have any other inherant drawbacks other than viewing angle?

Don't mind me, just thinking out loud. Writing it out and verifying on here makes it clearer in my own head :)

Very good suggestions from everyone. Making it even tougher to decide though. :confused:

All very good points.



The difference is more like $250 between the two (I won't give actual prices), but the H77 has a guaranteed 15% restocking fee if its not defective. The 7700 comes with a 1-2 lamp hour grace period with no restocking fee.

Someone made a good point in a PM that the 7700 may be the better way to go if you watch a lot of TV due to the higher brightness, which I'd say is about 70% of the time for me, 20% games and 10% DVD. That may change with a projector of course. Comparing apples to apples at 12.5' throw, the 7700 does look to be noticeably brighter which may fit my needs better, especially after the lamp starts to dim. True, this could be adjusted for with a higher gain screen on the H77, but that also reduces viewing angle I believe, plus I don't want to be forced into a high gain screen in a month or two when it starts to dim. I'd also have to max out the zoom to get a ~100"+ screen i'm going for, which will make it even more dim.

So basically, my options are -

H77: zoom maxed out. 1.5 gain screen (expensive) required after any decent amount of lamp use.
7700: Very little zoom. 1.1 gain screen (cheap) and possibly a filter to start, remove the filter with lamp age. Less overall contrast, but the filter may help with that until the bulb ages, at which point the dimmer lamp may provide better contrast than a new bulb.

I hadn't considered a high gain screen, but with the H77, does the higher gain (ceiling mounted) have any other inherant drawbacks other than viewing angle?

Don't mind me, just thinking out loud. Writing it out and verifying on here makes it clearer in my own head :)

Very good suggestions from everyone. Making it even tougher to decide though. :confused:


The 7700 is going to be a nice pj but the H77 see going to produce a better picture all around include much better contrast. Don't get hung up on the zoom issue (you keep stating it), you would not be able to visually detect a difference in per the zoom setting in this setup. As for TV viewing I really don't care for watching "SD" tv on a PJ. I have a 26" LCD (16:9) in my same room I use for normal tv and before I got that I was unsing a 21" (4:3) tv. You may feel different but after seeing watching DVDs and HDTV for some time plain old SD tv is plain sucks on any large tv. I can't even stand watching it on my friends 55" rear projection.

Anyways it looks like you cannot afford the H77 setup so I guess you will have to go with the 7700. There is going to be a breaking point for everyone, in most cases there is going to be a much larger gap then you are dealing with here. I am sure you will be blown away by the 7700 if this is your first pj... Good luck!

The Optoma GrayWolf seems to be a very competitively price screen for a high gain screen.

The Optoma GrayWolf seems to be a very competitively price screen for a high gain screen.

Wow. The MSRP for that screen at 106" diagonal is a lot less than I thought it'd be. That wouldn't be a problem at all. I assume it is retro-reflective so the gain is less at normal viewing height, which would work out perfectly. I'd prefer to not have a pulldown but I can't get everything I want on a budget. When I do a search for the model number Optoma lists on their website (DS-9106PM), most other sites list it as a "Panoview" with no mention of the Optoma name. Wonder why that is.

htaddict - I'd thought about keeping my old 32" Sony Wega in the corner perhaps, but it would be a huge eyesore. I'll be having D* HD service installed next month and I'd say 80% or more of our viewing is during prime time on network TV (offered in HD). So, for most TV we'd want to use the projector in HDTV. Watching HDTV is where we'd need the most brightness, I assume. Tom's screen shots on the original post here in HD look plenty bright to me though. ;)

Think exposure time. Don't judge brightness by a screen shot.

Looking at buying my first PJ. After starting at a comfortable Z3 decision, I have managed to work my way up to deciding between a PE7700 and the H77. Have done tons of reading, though a lot of comparisons were based on their being a 1k price difference, seems like there is a 400-ish price difference now (feel free to PM me if you know better, this is just Froogling in stock items). However, I also need to factor in the maintenance costs of both PJs.

One thing I haven't become entirely clear on:
At whatever setting I would need to run the lamp out (low on the PE7700, I think, still low on the H77 or high ?), how long will each lamp last, given the following details ?

- Perfect light control.
- 106" graywolf screen now but would like to be able to upgrade to a larger screen later (133" maybe).
- Unsure of preference on brightness vs. contrast. Would like to be able to do either as it may take some viewing time and girlfriend compromise to decide this.
- Assuming I don't do things I shouldn't like constant hard power offs.

Thanks, in advance, for any advice =)

Oh, also, is either PJ going to need an ISF more than the other ? That is, which is better out of the box and/or after some basic Avia/DVE self calibration ?

- Kel

As I understand it a ND2 filter will cut light throughput by 50%. What do you do if you only want to cut light by say 25%? They say your bulb will dim up to 50% over time and I would expect this to be a linear rate so how can you maintain constant light (or by smaller increments) output. I like a bright image but concerned that if I get to used to it being real bright I will be disappointed when the bulb dims so I would like to compensate right away.

Another option is to utilize the bright mode (H77). How much more light output is produced with bright mode?

Is there any graph or chart that shows the general light loss from o bulb over time?

Thanks!

Anyone heard anything or know of thread on the H77+ upgrade that in beta testing. I just got my H77 and very happy, but would like to get happier :)

Anyone heard anything or know of thread on the H77+ upgrade that in beta testing. I just got my H77 and very happy, but would like to get happier :)

I second that :)

I have not looked for the panning isssue and have yet to be bothered by anything but I think $150 is a small price to pay to ensure everything is up to date. I could not be happier with my purchase!

Check the link in my signature to find the thread on it. Briefly, wait for it,...

Two Weeks!

:D

Looking at buying my first PJ. After starting at a comfortable Z3 decision, I have managed to work my way up to deciding between a PE7700 and the H77. Have done tons of reading, though a lot of comparisons were based on their being a 1k price difference, seems like there is a 400-ish price difference now (feel free to PM me if you know better, this is just Froogling in stock items). However, I also need to factor in the maintenance costs of both PJs.

Check out http://www.projectorreviews.com/review.asp?reid=43. They do a pretty extensive head on review of the H77 and PE7700. Most of your questions will be answered in this article.

Phisch

I could not locate the review of the H77 vs the PE7000 on the above URL. Did see one for the H57. Could you please post the URL that takes me directly to the "head on review mentioned above?

Thanks,

Hello, here some news screenshot of my H78 with HD source (H78 with HD2+ not DC3 ;) )

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/nicolas.phil/screenH78/screenHD/screenH78-hd1.jpg
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/nicolas.phil/screenH78/screenHD/screenH78-hd2.jpg
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/nicolas.phil/screenH78/screenHD/screenH78-hd3.jpg
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/nicolas.phil/screenH78/screenHD/screenH78-hd4.jpg
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/nicolas.phil/screenH78/screenHD/screenH78-hd5.jpg

etc. ...

;)

Good to see ya Nico. What kind of settings are you using for your H78? Your numbers from your original H77 worked well on my PJ. Curious to see if my upgraded H77 (same as euro H78) will have similiar results.

Thanks for the shots. Howdya get a HD source of Madagascar? Or should I not ask.

very nice screenshots nico;)

glad to see this pj in action.

Hello, here some news screenshot of my H78 with HD source (H78 with HD2+ not DC3 ;) )

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/nicolas.phil/screenH78/screenHD/screenH78-hd1.jpg
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/nicolas.phil/screenH78/screenHD/screenH78-hd2.jpg
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/nicolas.phil/screenH78/screenHD/screenH78-hd3.jpg
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/nicolas.phil/screenH78/screenHD/screenH78-hd4.jpg
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/nicolas.phil/screenH78/screenHD/screenH78-hd5.jpg

etc. ...

;)

I couldn't pick up the panning issure at all. Excellent! :)

I love it European screen shots, Euro Animation also. ;)

Nice looking screen, interesting how you figured how to handle a room that has a walk through where you would need to setup. Electric screen. I have similar, out from the wall to cover a large fireplace.

Hello,

Client1 you have a PV ;)

My screen is very old and basic. I have to replace it. We can see on this shoot the result is not perfect : http://perso.wanadoo.fr/nicolas.phil/screenH77/zoom2H77.jpg

For my screenshot there are 28 pictures from :
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/nicolas.phil/screenH78/screenHD/screenH78-hd0.jpg
until
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/nicolas.phil/screenH78/screenHD/screenH78-hd28.jpg

I have not seen H78 DC3 in action but I have heard there is not big difference between H78 HD2+ and H78 DC3. May be the H79 can make a bigger difference. I really wished that Optoma upgrade my H78 HD2+ in H78 DC3, especially for the people, as me, suffered from H77 MKI and MKII with the "color bug". :(

Just fired up my new H77 to a 16:9 Carada BW (gain 1.5 I think) 88". Very pleased with the picture and not horrible in afternoon despite fair amount of sunlight. Can someone answer couple questions for me:

1. Incredibles and Matrix both have big bars on top and bottom of screen - are they unusually wide format, or do I need to do something to make them "fill up" the whole screen???

2. The center of the projector lense is about 10" from the ceiling, and the top of the screen is about 18" from the ceiling. Therefore, it is "tilted" down a bit to a flush-mounted screen. Will this make a big difference, or should I have my installer lower it on a pole (universal Chief mount) 8"?

I'm using gamma 1 and Tv mode as others had recommended that. I guess I'll rent AVIA from Netflix since so many people seem to be doing this. Any advice appreciated.

Thanks :)

Scott

Just fired up my new H77 to a 16:9 Carada BW (gain 1.5 I think) 88". Very pleased with the picture and not horrible in afternoon despite fair amount of sunlight. Can someone answer couple questions for me:

1. Incredibles and Matrix both have big bars on top and bottom of screen - are they unusually wide format, or do I need to do something to make them "fill up" the whole screen???

2. The center of the projector lense is about 10" from the ceiling, and the top of the screen is about 18" from the ceiling. Therefore, it is "tilted" down a bit to a flush-mounted screen. Will this make a big difference, or should I have my installer lower it on a pole (universal Chief mount) 8"?

I'm using gamma 1 and Tv mode as others had recommended that. I guess I'll rent AVIA from Netflix since so many people seem to be doing this. Any advice appreciated.

Thanks :)

Scott

1. Yes, movies with a greater aspect ratio than 16:9 (e.g., 2.35:1 or 2.4:1) will still have black bars on top and bottom. See the 2.35 AR forum for options on eliminating this.

2. Either lower the projector, or get your installer to tilt the screen outwards a bit to square the image if you have a fixed-frame screen (see the FAQ).

Later,
Bill

Question for you guys with H77s. How "black" are your wide aspect bars? Because I'm displaying on a 4:3 screen (temporary) I can see huge difference between the projected black bar and where there is no projected image on the bottom part of the screen. If you hold up your hand or something to block the projected image in the area of the black bar is there a significant difference in black.

I ask this because in past discussions there have been many statements that suggested that with pjs rated at this level C/R your blackest black should be close to how black your screen is with no lights on. Understanding this is not going to be the case when a bright image is being displayed but it just seems the "black" level in darks scenes is not as black as I expected it to be. It is probably a combination of basic Avia (only) calibration, too high Lft, the fact that I have a 4:3 screen (enhances the effect), and my expectations.

It's really driving me nuts though trying to figure out what screen to get as I DON'T want the blacks to be any lighter but really should be getting a screen with some gain since I want to go to 110" screen. I am pretty sure I am going to go with the Carada BW (1.4 gain) 110" Criterion.

Currently have a 100" 4:3 Da-Lite High Contrast Cinema Vision (92" 16:9 image). My lamp has about 30 hours on it. Seeing this is a High Contrast screen and going to a 1.4 gain you can understand my concern with black level.

BTW: The ANSI black on this thing is unreal. I cannot believe how "inky" black the blacks are in brighter scenes. It just the on/off contrast (black levels).

I have been looking for a ND filter (.1 or .2) to bring down the brightness a bit but these are hard to find. I think a ND2 (.3 = 50%) would be too much filter.

Any advise or comments are welcome, thanks in advance.

RK

I'm currently using an fl-day filter with a skylight filter to dim the image and allow more green and blue for a higher CR on my UK H78. It does involve using Colorfacts to get the greyscale flat again but it does improve the black level quite a bit. I'm using an 8ft wide 2.35:1 screen with Prismasonic lens. Gain is approx unity but actually looks just fine (just over 9ft lamberts). I'm going to replace the screen material with some Draper M1300 in the very near future so that I have 12ft lamberts of reflectance. This will dim with time of course, but as I'm quite happy with the current ft lamberts I doubt I'll be unhappy as it dims down to current levels.

Gary.

I guess I'll rent AVIA from Netflix since so many people seem to be doing this. Any advice appreciated.///tyrotrader
..........................
Renting AVIA is is like renting your remote control, who thinks up this stuff:) ??

Why don't you buy the consumer edition of Avia? It's not expensive and can often come in handy in the future if you change your DVD player/source or display at any time.

Gary.

I'm currently using an fl-day filter with a skylight filter to dim the image and allow more green and blue for a higher CR on my UK H78. It does involve using Colorfacts to get the greyscale flat again but it does improve the black level quite a bit. I'm using an 8ft wide 2.35:1 screen with Prismasonic lens. Gain is approx unity but actually looks just fine (just over 9ft lamberts). I'm going to replace the screen material with some Draper M1300 in the very near future so that I have 12ft lamberts of reflectance. This will dim with time of course, but as I'm quite happy with the current ft lamberts I doubt I'll be unhappy as it dims down to current levels.

Gary.

That's interesting.. I wish I had the resources (colorfacts/filter knowledge) to try that... I am thinking once I lower my Lft from 24 it should improve the black level but it can always be better!

Gary,

I recall reading somewhere that the Draper nominclature of M1300 leads one to believe that the gain on the screen is 1.3, but it is really closer to 1.0-1.1. At least I recall reading that in one of the threads here on AVS. (Just FYI)

I think it might have been Kevin (Krasmusik) that was talking about that.