Hi Steve,

Interesting you should say that, because I actually chose it because of the testing that Projector Central did with various screen materials:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/projector_screens_brightness.htm

Apparently there are different ways to measure screen gain, but PCs method came up with results that had Stewart StudioTec130 with a gain of 1.3 (which is correct and I would assume that the Stewart screen would be), and the M1300 was 1.25. All the others were less, in some cases much less. The Firehawk is said to be around 1.1 in reality, and PCs results seem to confirm that. I know that PC isn't considered that definitive in it's reviews etc, but in this case the results are all relative to a white board (how this compares to the magnesium oxide reference I don't know) and to other screens.

I don't know how to check the gain of screen material other than use a light meter in front of the screen and measure the lux coming off of the screen, and duplicate the conditions for each material (angle and distance of meter, same pj and lumens etc).

I also read elsewhere that because the market demands a unity gain material, Draper changed the way they measure their material and so came up with the same material as unity gain. Apparently the same material is advertised from unity all the way up to 1.5 gain by different people. I've no idea how or why to be honest but given the relative performance of the Draper to the Stewart material, I felt it was the best choice, especially as I could get it at a reasonable price.

I was going to get some da-Lite 1.3 gain material, but that came out as 1.1 gain, so again, the draper seemed a better choice. I'd like to know how best to measure the gain though so I can take readings from my current blackout cloth and compare it to my other samples and Draper material. Then I'd know which actually performs better for me in my room.

Gary.

[QUOTE]That's interesting.. I wish I had the resources (colorfacts/filter knowledge) to try that... I am thinking once I lower my Lft from 24 it should improve the black level but it can always be better! [QUOTE]

HTaddict,
We could split a one month rental on Colorfacts. It costs 299 a month and since we're so close logistics shouldn't be an issue. If interested send me a PM or email at scottyb@scottyb.com

Scott

Question for you guys with H77s. How "black" are your wide aspect bars? Because I'm displaying on a 4:3 screen (temporary) I can see huge difference between the projected black bar and where there is no projected image on the bottom part of the screen. If you hold up your hand or something to block the projected image in the area of the black bar is there a significant difference in black.

I ask this because in past discussions there have been many statements that suggested that with pjs rated at this level C/R your blackest black should be close to how black your screen is with no lights on. Understanding this is not going to be the case when a bright image is being displayed but it just seems the "black" level in darks scenes is not as black as I expected it to be. It is probably a combination of basic Avia (only) calibration, too high Lft, the fact that I have a 4:3 screen (enhances the effect), and my expectations.

It's really driving me nuts though trying to figure out what screen to get as I DON'T want the blacks to be any lighter but really should be getting a screen with some gain since I want to go to 110" screen. I am pretty sure I am going to go with the Carada BW (1.4 gain) 110" Criterion.

Currently have a 100" 4:3 Da-Lite High Contrast Cinema Vision (92" 16:9 image). My lamp has about 30 hours on it. Seeing this is a High Contrast screen and going to a 1.4 gain you can understand my concern with black level.

BTW: The ANSI black on this thing is unreal. I cannot believe how "inky" black the blacks are in brighter scenes. It just the on/off contrast (black levels).

I have been looking for a ND filter (.1 or .2) to bring down the brightness a bit but these are hard to find. I think a ND2 (.3 = 50%) would be too much filter.

Any advise or comments are welcome, thanks in advance.

RK


I notice a big difference in blacks using the Graywolf screen with the H79, even the HT1000. Might be a great match for what you're looking for. Check out the review thread in the screens forum.

[QUOTE]That's interesting.. I wish I had the resources (colorfacts/filter knowledge) to try that... I am thinking once I lower my Lft from 24 it should improve the black level but it can always be better! [QUOTE]

HTaddict,
We could split a one month rental on Colorfacts. It costs 299 a month and since we're so close logistics shouldn't be an issue. If interested send me a PM or email at scottyb@scottyb.com

Scott

I put a mail in tune up arrangment in the Display sales area. Go give it a look, maybe bump it back up. ;)
Have colorfacts you travel. :)

Just did an H79 for someone, end result was excellent.

I notice a big difference in blacks using the Graywolf screen with the H79, even the HT1000. Might be a great match for what you're looking for. Check out the review thread in the screens forum.

Yeah, I really considered the Greywolf as an option even if I had to use Brightmode or replace the bulb sooner but they don't have any fixed screens. :(

How much gain would you expect with a ceiling mounted pj on the Greywolf?

Any idea when they will have the fixed screen out?

Thanks a lot!, now I am back to the start on screens... j/k :)

[QUOTE=scottyb][QUOTE]That's interesting.. I wish I had the resources (colorfacts/filter knowledge) to try that... I am thinking once I lower my Lft from 24 it should improve the black level but it can always be better!

I put a mail in tune up arrangment in the Display sales area. Go give it a look, maybe bump it back up. ;)
Have colorfacts you travel. :)

Just did an H79 for someone, end result was excellent.

I have considered your mail-in option but the fact that I would have to give up my PJ, risk shipping (mis-handling), and the fact that I am a technical person a like to learn things like calibration I do like Scott's idea. I think your service is an EXCELLENT idea, but think for myself I would prefer to learn even if the results were not perfect. "Give a man a fish and he has food for one day, teach him to fish and he has food for life.."

Renting is a great idea for sure. Scott's had a sencore sensor I think so he can give you pointers. Plus you can come here for advice.

No new word on the Graywolf Electrics or fixed models. But expect them all, that company even has tensioned electrics for their other models but they cost over $2k.

Yeah, I really considered the Greywolf as an option even if I had to use Brightmode or replace the bulb sooner but they don't have any fixed screens. :(

How much gain would you expect with a ceiling mounted pj on the Greywolf?

Any idea when they will have the fixed screen out?

Thanks a lot!, now I am back to the start on screens... j/k :)

After reading through the thread on the Greywolf and the comments about the sparkles (like the HCCV) I have decided against this screen. I currently have the HCCV and I think the sparkles ruin the picture, or more precisely I think it takes away from the realism of the scene/image. Too bad!

Hi Steve,

Interesting you should say that, because I actually chose it because of the testing that Projector Central did with various screen materials:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/projector_screens_brightness.htm

Apparently there are different ways to measure screen gain, but PCs method came up with results that had Stewart StudioTec130 with a gain of 1.3 (which is correct and I would assume that the Stewart screen would be), and the M1300 was 1.25. All the others were less, in some cases much less. The Firehawk is said to be around 1.1 in reality, and PCs results seem to confirm that. I know that PC isn't considered that definitive in it's reviews etc, but in this case the results are all relative to a white board (how this compares to the magnesium oxide reference I don't know) and to other screens.

I don't know how to check the gain of screen material other than use a light meter in front of the screen and measure the lux coming off of the screen, and duplicate the conditions for each material (angle and distance of meter, same pj and lumens etc).

I also read elsewhere that because the market demands a unity gain material, Draper changed the way they measure their material and so came up with the same material as unity gain. Apparently the same material is advertised from unity all the way up to 1.5 gain by different people. I've no idea how or why to be honest but given the relative performance of the Draper to the Stewart material, I felt it was the best choice, especially as I could get it at a reasonable price.

I was going to get some da-Lite 1.3 gain material, but that came out as 1.1 gain, so again, the draper seemed a better choice. I'd like to know how best to measure the gain though so I can take readings from my current blackout cloth and compare it to my other samples and Draper material. Then I'd know which actually performs better for me in my room.

Gary.


Gary, I will be very interested to hear your results.

A year ago I did a little "home made" test (with just eyes) by taking the samples from Draper, Da-Lite, and Vutec. I taped the samples together from the back and created a screen that was 96" x 24." Then I tacked this home-made group of screen samples to the wall over the top of my 96"x54" screen made out of blackout cloth.

Then six family members came in and we watched portions of 5 DVD's and some HD television. Each member moved around the HT and sat in every seat.

After all this we decided that the blackout cloth did a heck of a good job for $15! However, the Draper M1300 was one of the favorite screens from all the participants. Another favorite was the Vucted BriteWhite, so you might consider it. I did not get any samples from Stewart, because I had made the assumption (with all that implies) that I could not afford one anyway. Even though the StudioTek 130 had been one of my favorite two screens from a shootout I had attended.

So I will be quite interested in how the M1300 works out with your measuring equipment.

Hi Steve,

I'll find out from Darin what the best way to test screen material is, and see if I can get some good results. I have some small samples of Vutec materials including the Bright White, so I'll see if I can get a measure of those too.

I have to agree with you regarding the BO cloth though - when I got the HT1000, the image was a tad dimmer than I was used to at that time, so I needed something with a gain of around 1.2, so that's what I got. Other than a little whiter and of course a little brighter, I couldn't see a great seal of difference, and so I too felt that the BO cloth was fantastic value for money.

Even now I have no problems with the BO cloth so I'm in no rush to change it, which is just as well as I've been too busy to do it recently. Maybe in a couple of weeks though. :)

Gary.

I gotta another question regarding a ceiling mounted H77...

Here's a pic of my proscenium: http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/252/252396/folders/193525/1581259IMG1964.JPG

The center channel area is 19" from the ceiling and the roughly painted black border is about 5" or so. The total distance from the ceiling to the ideal top of the proposed screen is about 24"... Does this mean I have to first invert the H77 and then drop my projector down about 24" to keep from having to use the keystoning feature? Is there a downside to using the keystone?

I'd like to drop it maybe a max of 12", is that possible with the current setup?

Also, I may have to hold off on a nice screen and throw it on the Ultra Pure White until I can get Congress/wife to pass a bill on more funds :D. Anyone projecting on a white wall, temporary? Good, Bad, or Ugly?

BuffBaker: that's a very nice proscenium. I can't imagine anyone putting that much effort into it and then using keystone correction on their PJ. It is detrimental to your image and will rely 100% on the PJ's ability to digitally modify your incoming signal. To avoid it you will:
a) have to have the PJ's lens level with the top of your screen
b) slightly tilt the bottom of a screen out then mount the PJ perpindicular to the top of the screen (some folks have suggested this, but be aware this will affect your viewing angles, too. May or may not be an issues depending on screen material.

There are some automated PJ lowering mechanisms I've looked at and considered. Not cheap, but would move the PJ out of the way when it's not on.

I believe you can get away with a little extra height (above level) by ignoring a tiny bit of keystone (zoom it onto your screen border/mask, and you will probably not see it in the final image. And it's been reported that you can mount a little higher (maybe 6" depending on throw distance) using maximum lens shift - that is, the PJ may go a little farther than it's spec.

But I personally would not even consider adding digital keystone correction to my image.

HTH, Scott

The throw distance will be about 17' from the lens to the 106"-110" screen.

So, if I'm reading correctly, I would have to raise the screen to it's maximum height of about 20" from the ceiling (almost touching the bottom of the proscenium at 19") and could possibly get about 6" of maximum lens shift for a best case scenario of a 14" drop for the projector?

14" is better than 24" of drop since the projector will be mounted on a 9ft ceiling and be above a 12" riser. Hmmmm, is keystoning an image that bad or are we splitting hairs? How low is too low to hang a PJ?

The throw distance will be about 17' from the lens to the 106"-110" screen.

So, if I'm reading correctly, I would have to raise the screen to it's maximum height of about 20" from the ceiling (almost touching the bottom of the proscenium at 19") and could possibly get about 6" of maximum lens shift for a best case scenario of a 14" drop for the projector?

14" is better than 24" of drop since the projector will go about a 12" riser. Hmmmm, is keystoning an image that bad or are we splitting hairs?Not sure I'm following your arithmatic, but as for the other question, it's subjective. For me, yes, it's that bad [to do]. I have a SDI output DVD player, a Lumagen scaler, and other nifties to get the best that is possible for my viewing. Only you can weigh the asthetics of the room against the quality of the picture.

For planning purposes, I'd shoot for no keystone. And I would not count on that extra 6" I mentioned. Then, once you get it set up, you may find you have the extra 6" Also don't count on keystone correction not bothering you. If you find it dosen't, then you can mount higher if you want. But again, I'd plan for the "right" location with no workaround adjustments first.

Best, S

The throw distance will be about 17' from the lens to the 106"-110" screen.

So, if I'm reading correctly, I would have to raise the screen to it's maximum height of about 20" from the ceiling (almost touching the bottom of the proscenium at 19") and could possibly get about 6" of maximum lens shift for a best case scenario of a 14" drop for the projector?

14" is better than 24" of drop since the projector will be mounted on a 9ft ceiling and be above a 12" riser. Hmmmm, is keystoning an image that bad or are we splitting hairs? How low is too low to hang a PJ?

I find the math a little troubling also...

I do not own the H77 (yet... waiting to see what happens with the upgrade), but my understanding is that the lens MUST be positioned WITHIN the vertical dimensions of the screen, unless you use tilt (on projector and screen) or keystone correction. Once the lens is withing the screen you can use the lens shift to move the projector up or down within the screen, but that the lens must physically stay within the screen...

Unless Gray can tell us that the lens shift will allow you to move the lens OUTSIDE of the screen parameters...., perhaps in real life they will but that is certainly not my understanding of how it is supposed to work.

Have you considered a shelf mounted at the back of your room and close to where you would like the top of the screen to be? You could then put the projector on the shelf (inverted) and not have to have an ugly pole hanging down in the middle of your pretty room!

I would love a retractable mount, but my limited information tells me they are pretty pricey!

Unless Gray can tell us that the lens shift will allow you to move the lens OUTSIDE of the screen parameters...., perhaps in real life they will but that is certainly not my understanding of how it is supposed to work. You are correct, but the centerline of the lens can be at the edge of the screen per the spec, splitting hairs there. We'll call that inside the screen area. It was TOm who reported he got 6-7" outside the screen area, but I never tested it. Tell you what. Mine's mounted and aligned perfectly. Mine's powered off for the night so it will have to wait till tomorrow evening but when I power it back on, I'll shift the image as far as it will let me and tell you if or how far over spec mine goes.I would love a retractable mount, but my limited information tells me they are pretty pricey!I think the one I saw was $2k list. They are pricy. But that looked like a pricey stage, too :). Cheers, Scott

Sorry about all the numbers...

What I was trying to state is this: For the ceiling mount application, if my screen top is 2ft from the ceiling, I have to drop the projector at least 2ft, right?

If that's the case: 9ft ceiling height - 2ft projector drop = 7ft from projector to floor, not bad... But, take into account the 1ft riser: 7ft - 1ft riser = 6ft from projector to top of riser... Way too low for me and anyone over 6ft tall trying to get into the second row...

Now, assuming everything above is correct... If the top of my screen is 24" from the ceiling and the projector is 24" from the ceiling and I raise the screen 4", I can then raise the projector 4". Now, the both the screen top and the projector are 20" from the ceiling. In addition, if I max out the lens shift, I could get a best case senario for an additional 6" subtracted off the projection drop putting the projector at only 14" from the ceiling and the screen top still staying at 20" but this isn't confirmed. I could live with a 14" drop... Does any of that make sense...

Or am I screwed and I'll still have to keystone???

Thanks for you time... Any suggestions???

But that looked like a pricey stage, too :). Cheers, Scott Smoke and mirrors, Scott... Smoke and mirrors. :D

BuffBakerGA I have had 3 H77s from 14 ft back on a 92 diag screen with no tilt or keystone I can get 5" above the screen on my 1st and 3rd units. On my 2nd unit I was about 1" above the screen. So I guess it is the luck of the draw.

The only Projector that is in this price range and that is about the same quality and that will get you up even higher is the Infocus SP 7205.

Dale

Buffbakers question caught my eye as I am begining construction of my theater. I have an H79 and plan on a 110" screen.

I realize that this won't apply to Buffbaker (great prosenium by the way), but it seems as though the best option for me would have to have the center channel speaker below the screen, so the screen could be closer to the ceiling. I only have 8' ceiling.

Is it optimal to have the center channel above or below screen ? Does it even matter much ?

I will have a 12" riser also. So I really can not have projector drop much from ceiling, so sreen will need to be probably 6" from ceiling.

My question is how high should the screen be off the ground for the first row ? I thought I read viewers eyes should be lined up with bottom 1/3 of sreen ? Is this true.

This is also going to determine how far from ceiling I can go with screen.

I really wanted to have center speaker above screen, but it does not seem like it will work unless I have projector hanging way down.

Any ideas ?

BuffBakerGA I have had 3 H77s from 14 ft back on a 92 diag screen with no tilt or keystone I can get 5" above the screen on my 1st and 3rd units. On my 2nd unit I was about 1" above the screen. So I guess it is the luck of the draw.

Dale

Well Dale has had a few, so apparently you can get some of the H77's lens shift to go beyond the screen limits....

When I read Tom's post on this I thought he had done it by tilting the screen and the projector....

So perhaps you will get lucky and get your six inches!

With the 12" riser I would agree that dropping the projector 24" just would not be practical or particularly attractive. You could get a little extra help with the tilt trick though... if you tilt the projector down 5 degree's and then tilt the bottom of the screen out 5 degree's you would be able to get the projector up a little higher.

This is the same issue that was being discussed for quite a while in the original H79 versus IF7210 thread.

My question is how high should the screen be off the ground for the first row ? I thought I read viewers eyes should be lined up with bottom 1/3 of sreen ? Is this true.

Any ideas ?

It is my understanding that this is considered optimal placement, with your eyes 1/3 up from the bottom of the screen.

If that's the case: 9ft ceiling height - 2ft projector drop = 7ft from projector to floor, not bad... But, take into account the 1ft riser: 7ft - 1ft riser = 6ft from projector to top of riser... Way too low for me and anyone over 6ft tall trying to get into the second row...Now, assuming everything above is correct... If the top of my screen is 24" from the ceiling and the projector is 24" from the ceiling and I raise the screen 4", I can then raise the projector 4". Now, the both the screen top and the projector are 20" from the ceiling.

Yes, if you raise the screen 4" then you can raise the projector 4". I have a setup similar to yours - my screen is mounted 18" below a 9' ceiling, with a 11" riser below where the projector is mounted, making for little headroom when walking on the riser. The lack of offset on the H77 is one of the few things that I dislike about this projector.

As a partial remedy, I mount the projector a few inches above the screen to allow for more headroom beneath the rear riser. This results in a slightly trapezoid image. However, I use the screen frame to mask the sides of the projected image, so that I have a square picture. Not a perfect solution, but it allows me to not use the keystone adjustment.

Thanks for the info Guys,

Good, if I start with 20" and work my way up, it sounds like I can get 5"- 6" with a 100% lens shift. Then, combine that with raising the screen up a little, add the 5 degree tilt of the projector and screen, and maybe a little bit of the keystone adjustment and let it run off on the screen frame, the projector drop could be as short as 12"-14"...

I really wouldn't be so worried about how low it mounts but the projector will be right above the middle seat in the second row. I also have to worry about obstructing a 3rd row of barstools and standing room but after thumb tacking a tape measure 14" down from the ceiling, I see its a not an issue...

Wow Phisch, it sounds like "Keystoning a H77 is the work of the Devil"... :D

It seems that the H31 and the H57 both have offsets but H77 and H79 don't. Does that explain the increase in picture quality and could this offset be easily carried over to more expensive models or did Optoma drop the ball on the high end projectors?

Buffbaker: Very few of the projectors have more offset. The Marantz, Sim2 300E do not. I don't thinkk the Yamaha does. Only the IF72xx does. And it comes with a whopping offset that is fixed, so it can be problematic in th eother direction if you hav e a big screen and/or low ceiling.

In my arrangement the PJ is essentially above the second row of seating and not above the "isle". So it's not going to hit anyone's head since they are seated below it. Can they reach it, yes an adult could. If they stand on the seat will it hit, yes. But alas it's something you have to live with with any but the 7205/7210 but that PJ has it's own issues for me.

Dale's obviously had the most tries on the "real life" offset measurment, I'll still try to remember to check mine for another datapoint. Mine is a H79, but I'm in the camp that firmly believes there is zero internal difference in the H77/78/79 optics. Other than the random differences Dale has pointed out. Ive had a 77 and 79, they are identical. But that's an argument for another thread....

Mike: My screen is a 110" and I have my center channel below the screen. It's big speaker (B&W HTM1) But still fit's nicely. Sonically I think it counds fine there and woudl be odd coming from above. I prefer not to look up at screens and I have mine mounted at about 24" off the floor which works well for me. Remember that in the majority of the scenes dialog (which the center is used for mostly) will come "off the screen" at center to the lower third (unless gods are speaking from the sky :)) With my center located just below me 110", everything sounds prefectly natural.

Hope that helps, Scott

Is it optimal to have the center channel above or below screen ? Does it even matter much ?
....
My question is how high should the screen be off the ground for the first row ? I thought I read viewers eyes should be lined up with bottom 1/3 of sreen ? Is this true.


Dennis Erskine is very adamant about having the center channel above the screen (if it can't be behind the screen). The center channel, which is probably the most important speaker in the surround setup, will have the most unobstucted dispersion from above the screen. If you have only one row of seats, it may not matter. But if you have a second row, the center channel below the screen will certainly be less effective for those in the second row.

Eyes even with the bottom 1/3 point is the typical recommendation. But think about where you sit in a movie theater. Are you typically looking up at the screen, dead on at the screen, or down on the screen? that may give you some clue as to what height will work for you.

It seems that the H31 and the H57 both have offsets but H77 and H79 don't. Does that explain the increase in picture quality and could this offset be easily carried over to more expensive models or did Optoma drop the ball on the high end projectors?

Different projectors have different installation design choices. The H7X are meant to be within the screen parameters, so they make excellent table tob projectors. If your installation requires the projector to be well above the screen in a ceiling mount, you may need to look at a projector with a fixed offset rather than a lens shift. The infocus 7205 and 7210 have fixed offets (probably 7"-8" in your setup). The Dwin TV4 which is just now out will also have a fixed offset similar to the infocus (I think it's more expensive, but also is a 2 box solution and has Dwin's excellent scaler). Stepping up to high dollar, the Dwin TV3e and Marantz S4 have the ability to be placed well above the screen as well. Another option is the Sharp Z2000, which has only a small offset (an inch or two), but is shorter throw than the H7x so it can be placed forward of your riser where there is more headroom.

Thanks Scott and Joealtus.

As I get further along I will have to do some experimenting to see what will work best as far as above or below the screen for center speaker.

One thing I am wondering about is if you have your center above the screen and your left and right front towers on the floor on the sides of the screen, it seems that in a scene of say a fighter jet going from the left of screen to the right, the sound would not pan across the screen as well as if the center was mounted below the sreen more in line with the front speakers.

It seems if the center was mounted on the top of screen you would here the sound pan across then go up in the middle then back down on the right ?

I thought the same thing until I placed it up there and slightly angled it down towards the center of the seating area. I can't explain it but everything seems clearer and brighter. You could always grab an 8ft ladder and throw it up there and listen but if it falls, don't blame me. ;) My old Yamaha receiver has dual center channels and I have the stage wired for top and bottom applications but after talking with Dennis, I opted for one and it sounded better up top.

Well, I'm 95% there... I ran the numbers and visually accepted the height of the H77 for the best and worse case scenarios. I won't know until I throw it up there and then build the screen around the image.

My question is this: How much of a better value is the H77 than say the AE700 and HS51? I'm really caught in a bind trying to figure out if I want to spend the extra 25%-35% more on a quality PJ or do I pick up a cheap LCD with a decent screen to get me by and keep the wife less stress free (she always worries about big purchases but then is happy after the fact). Is the comparison night and day, slightly better, or not worth it... I need someone who has spent some time with these projectors to push me off the cliff and say, "Get the H77, it's a hands down winner and is the best bang for the buck". The "It was selling for $9000 a year ago" isn't working for the wife. :)

Originally, I was set on the 4805. Took it back after ready these forums. Then decided on the AE700. Holding out because I found out that the H77 was coming down in price. Holding to make sure it works for my application... Damn this website, it keeps costing me time and money and I can't stop reading. :D

Well, after talking to one of the sponsors above, I finally ordered the H77. It seems to me that this is the best bang for the buck out there and with an extra 3rd year warranty and an extra bulb, you can't go wrong...

[Insert Awards Music] "Oh, there's so many people I want to thank for this purchase. I would like to thank my AVS brothers who provided me with so much information. I also would like to thank Guitarman, Tom where are you, there you are trying to hide behind Tom Hanks. Oh, I feel like I'm forgetting someone... I know I should have written this all down. [Insert closing music] I would like to thank my Wife and kids, who will enjoy this purchase just as much as I will... Thanks, and good night.....

Jeff

I haven't seen the H77 U.S. upgrade issue discussed in a while here. Is the upgrade now officially offered or is it still in the beta stage?
Moe

I've been following it here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5989913#post5989913

I have been trying to use Avia/DVE to calibrate my new H77 and I am not sure what some of the settings do or how they affect the test patterns.

In Avia/DVE, you use contrast for white levels and brightness for black levels but there are additional settings on the H77, specifically, Peak White Levels and Gamma, that seem to affect it as well.

On the color side of things, Avia/DVE call for color saturation and tint but on the H77, I can't use the tint but there is color saturation, different video modes (film, video, etc.) and then individual color contrast/brightness modes.

So...
1) Can anyone shed some light (no pun intended) on how I should use gamma, peak white levels and individual color contrast/brightness, in regards to calibrating with DVE/Avia ?

2) Same question but for color levels and individual color brightness/contrast and video types (cinema, film, video, etc.) ?

Thanks, in advance, for any help you can offer.

Kel, I believe Guitarman (Tom) has listed some settings procedures on the first page of this post for the Optoma H77 series projectors.

You know what, you are right, I got ahead of myself and forgot there were some explanations on the color adjustments. My apologies for that. I am still stuck on my own Peak White Levels/Gamma confusion and just thought I would throw in the related color question while I was at it but I got ahead of myself.

So let me apologize again and throw out question 2 :)

Anyone point me in the right direction for Peak White Levels / Gamma info ?

- Kel

You should start with these basics.

Picture menu
Cinema
gamma 1

Image menu
TV
Color temp 2

Then tune blacks, whites, color saturation with Avia and the Picture menu controls.

After that if you see any hint of color bias in graysteps use the info in the first post with the Image advanced adjustments.

No white peak for theater but you could try adding some for sports, day veiwing.

Tom,

I know this is the H77 thread, but I have the same question for my new H79.
Can you tell me what settings are best to start with to get a good basic calibration ? Thanks

You should start with these basics.
...
No white peak for theater but you could try adding some for sports, day veiwing.

Thank you, Tom. That will definitely get me started then.

I am curious. Does anyone know, more specifically, what those controls do ? That is, what the 'White Peak Levels' vs. Gamma vs. Contrast do differently from each other ? I did a search in this thread for "White Peak Levels", the one I am most curious about, and didn't see anything. Does it have something to do with whiter-than-white information or such ?

Thanks again for the head start.

- Kel

Tom,

I know this is the H77 thread, but I have the same question for my new H79.
Can you tell me what settings are best to start with to get a good basic calibration ? Thanks

Same setup for the H79.

Is there a major difference between DVI and Component connections on the H77? Which DVD player are you guys running?

The best signal is DVI, it's cleaner and colors are more natural. Pick up a Panasonic S97, S77 or Oppo. You'll need a good quality cable also.

Sanity check (or stupid question),

So *if* I go with the H77, do I use a DVI-D or DVI-I? Will one limit me over the other? Also, the S97 and S77 has a HDMI connection, doesn't it? I plan on the S97, but was leaning towards the AE700 and am now considering the H77. I already ran HDMI for the AE700, but can still run a DVI cable. I'd like to run on just in case, but want to make sure I'm not going to screw myself. I do have conduit installed, but really want to use that for future use only. I'd rather pay for a cable, have it in the ceiling and not use it than to chew up mu conduit space.

Bud

I'd keep the HDMI cable, and put a converter on the projector. Considering that HDMI looks to be the future, I'd rather have that than DVI.

In other news, I just ordered mine and it's on the way. Will only hook it up with RGB right now, tho, since that's all my HD card in my HTPC supports now. :(

Jason

Sanity check (or stupid question),

So *if* I go with the H77, do I use a DVI-D or DVI-I? Will one limit me over the other? Also, the S97 and S77 has a HDMI connection, doesn't it? I plan on the S97, but was leaning towards the AE700 and am now considering the H77. I already ran HDMI for the AE700, but can still run a DVI cable. I'd like to run on just in case, but want to make sure I'm not going to screw myself. I do have conduit installed, but really want to use that for future use only. I'd rather pay for a cable, have it in the ceiling and not use it than to chew up mu conduit space.

Bud

The HDMI/to DVI adaptor won't hurt anything, DVI end can be DVI-D or DVI-I. Most likely all you see is adaptors with DVI-D dual link (all eight rows of 3 pins) There's no info on the center two rows of 3 pins and no info on the analog pins, the four square pins around the small horizontal dash. So it doesn't matter whether they're all there or not.

So you don't worry HDMI to DVI adaptor will match. The Monster adaptor I use shows a dual link setup, all eight rows and no analog pins.

The H77 comes with a 6ft DVI cable and a DVI to HDMI adapter. Should these be upgraded? Looks like I'm going to have to run a 25ft DVI or HDMI cable along with a set of components cables. I was kinda hoping that I could hook everything up through the Yamaha RXV-2500 and only run one set of monitor out component cables but it's a good thing I install my conduit :D

I ran around all day looking for the S77/S79. Looks like BB, CC, HFB, and HHG don't carry them anymore...

Buff,

Geez, I was looking at the RXV2500 as well. Pretty funny. On the S97, Amazon used to carry it, but doesn't look like it now. My company works with Panasonic (not sure specifically how) and I'm able to get some deals on Panasonic stuff. The Panasonic website I have access to says its in stock, but its discounted, so it could be discontinued. The AE700 is not not discounted any better than what I see out there for the general public. Anyone know if the S97 has been discontinued? I did not check on the S77. Also, check out pccables.com or monoprice.com for cables. There is also a power buy through Ram Electronics.

Bud

Is there a major difference between DVI and Component connections on the H77? Which DVD player are you guys running?

I am using a Denon 2910 dvd player with my H77, and I have both DVI and component cables hooked up between the 2 units. I think there is an incremental increase in the picture quality with the DVI connection, specifically a litte more detail in the picture, but it is not a drastic difference.

The S97 has been discontinued and the S77 has taken it's place. But in my opinion I think the S97 is a better player. I have one on my H77 and it works great. I have tried the Denon 1910, Sony 975, Pano S77, Bravo D1, Samsung 841 and the S97 is the best upconverting DVD player I have tried yet. It is still out there, you just have to look for it and it is discounted. I bought mine from Tweeters for $150 and that was with a 2 year extended warranty. :D

Dale

The HDMI/to DVI adaptor won't hurt anything, DVI end can be DVI-D or DVI-I. Most likely all you see is adaptors with DVI-D (all eight rows of three pins). FYI DVI-I deletes the two center rows of eight pins. No info is sent on these anyway so it doesn't matter whether they're all there or not.
.

The H77 dvi connection is DVI-I. The 'I' means there are 4 extra pins for analog (RGB). Since my video out is DVI-I also, I use DVI-I to the H77. I have no idea if the extra analog pins are used or not.

Single link vs Dual link is the difference where 2 center rows are removed in Single link.

Not that I know what any of this means. :) I just know I went through 3 cables trying to get the one that I thought was right.

The analog pins are the four pins around the thin horizontal (we'll call it a pin).

There's no info on the analog pins or the dual link pins. I've used cables with no analog pins dual link and single link that will work.

Is everyone's H77's component image as sharp as the menu's image? I'm just curious if I'm expecting too much or does the H77 shine more with DVI? I can get the focus sharp as a tack and the setting and service menus look great but once I turn on a source... it's not very clear. I've tried 4 different sources (3 DVD players, 2 component cables, and a XBOX with component hook up) and I can't get the picture that everyone has been raving about. I remember the XBOX with my old infocus 4805 looking better than this...

All of my images look blurred on the outside no matter what the sharpness level is. See the photos below:
http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/252/252396/folders/189466/1641846IMG2167.JPG
http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/252/252396/folders/189466/1642067IMG2168.JPG
The menu is very sharp (although the picture doesn't show it) but look at the blurred 2 (its for disk 2 on the changer)...
http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/252/252396/folders/189466/1641847IMG2172.JPG
All of the edges look blurry and have a glow to them...
http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/252/252396/folders/189466/1641844IMG2176.JPG
http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/252/252396/folders/189466/1641845IMG2177.JPG
Did I forget to take the lens cap off or what???
http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/252/252396/folders/189466/1642066IMG2175.JPG
I know the buildings aren't in focus but look at the window.
http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/252/252396/folders/189466/1642065IMG2170.JPG
Is that Ghostworks or Dreamworks???

I don't know if a calibration disk is going to work but I'll run Avia tonight. It doesn't matter if I have the sharpness on 1 or 5, composite, s-video, and component all look the same on all 3 DVD players. The players are set up correctly. Even the XBOX looks just as bad. Can someone post there setting for the XBOX and I'll take some pics and see...

Please, help me love this thing. I have until Monday to keep it or return it. :confused:

I don't know how to size them down...

Is everyone's H77's component image as sharp as the menu's image? I'm just curious if I'm expecting too much or does the H77 shine more with DVI? I can get the focus sharp as a tack and the setting and service menus look great but once I turn on a source... it's not very clear. I've tried 4 different sources (3 DVD players, 2 component cables, and a XBOX with component hook up) and I can't get the picture that everyone has been raving about. I remember the XBOX with my old infocus 4805 looking better than this...

All of my images look blurred on the outside no matter what the sharpness level is. See the photos below:
http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/252/252396/folders/189466/1641846IMG2167.JPG
http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/252/252396/folders/189466/1642067IMG2168.JPG
The menu is very sharp (although the picture doesn't show it) but look at the blurred 2 (its for disk 2 on the changer)...
http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/252/252396/folders/189466/1641847IMG2172.JPG
All of the edges look blurry and have a glow to them...
http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/252/252396/folders/189466/1641844IMG2176.JPG
http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/252/252396/folders/189466/1641845IMG2177.JPG
Did I forget to take the lens cap off or what???
http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/252/252396/folders/189466/1642066IMG2175.JPG
I know the buildings aren't in focus but look at the window.
http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/252/252396/folders/189466/1642065IMG2170.JPG
Is that Ghostworks or Dreamworks???

I don't know if a calibration disk is going to work but I'll run Avia tonight. It doesn't matter if I have the sharpness on 1 or 5, composite, s-video, and component all look the same on all 3 DVD players. The players are set up correctly. Even the XBOX looks just as bad. Can someone post there setting for the XBOX and I'll take some pics and see...

Please, help me love this thing. I have until Monday to keep it or return it. :confused:

I don't know how to size them down...

My component feed looks a lot sharper than that, but its hard to say unless you see it in person.

I also don't have any issue with menus being sharp, picture not, vice versa....

Mine looks very sharp with DVI. I would say that Svideo is not that great, and component looks better but still not as sharp as DVI. If your images are looking as bad as your pics are I would have to say you have a serious problem. good luck.

Dale

What size image are you doing? After you set the focus you're not zooming the image around are you? You're using a wall for the image? About the players tell us which model players? The Xbox is known to be poor to use as a DVD player.

Those are the worst Optoma images I've seen, soft isn't the word. Blurry's more like it.

Here's a shot done with the Panasonic XP30 (components). Big difference right?
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77fifth1.jpg

Somethings up with you players or maybe the Optics have shifted. But since you say you can get a clean focus when viewing the focus box I'm confused.

The screen/wall is only 110" thrown from 17.2" and I have zero zoom (set to 1). I installed a 76" matte white screen just above the wall and compared the two and the image looks identical so it's not the screen wall. If it was, Optoma's menus wouldn't look crystal clear when focused...

It's got to be the sources, the processing of the sources, or the cabling... It will throw a crystal clear image, it just happens to only be with the menus.

I only used the Xbox with games that had 480p, no DVDs. I also used a set of the Monster component cables that plug into the back so it was mainly a test of a different non-dvd source with a nice quality component cable. I did the exact same Xbox setup with an Infocus 4805 about month ago and it looked great. This has got me shaking my head...

I'm going to go pick up a 720p DVD source with DVI and see what happens...

That may help because it's a totally different input connection but somethings wrong with the component area. Do you have to buy this particular machine? Tell the company you're buying from there's something wrong with this machine and you'll like a different one that's not broken.

Since the menu screens are all coming through sharp, I would think that the culprit is a faulty processor chip. I don't think that the menu screens pass through the processor, so that may be why they are sharp, but the images aren't.

The menus look great, no shadowing or ghosting... Here's some pics. The focus is fine but look at the garbage around everything else...

For each picture, I just got a little closer and there is no camera zoom (Canon Powershot S410) so they should be pretty accurate.

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/252/252396/folders/189466/1642507IMG2178.JPG

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/252/252396/folders/189466/1642510IMG2179.JPG

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/252/252396/folders/189466/1642515IMG2180.JPG

Sorry about the size, I don't know how to scale them down...

I had something similar with a LCD projector. The menus looks fine, but the picture from any sources gets ghosted. The menus are patched in after the signal proceesing, hence the probelm you have is from the processor or back to the source.

Do you have any cables connected to the pj or player that isn't conected at both ends? I once had a similar probelm when I forgot to reconnect one end of the componet cables and the VGA input on the NEC HT1000 looked blurry. Reconnecting the cables made the images sharp again.

Gary.

Same setup for the H79.

Thanks Tom !!

Does the H77 have a sealed light path?
Thanks,
-Reinyn

Does the H77 have a sealed light path?

Yes

Projector People's customer service is top notch. They've already sent me a shipping label to overnight my H77 to them and then they are going to overnight me a new H77... Now thats class.

BTW, I ran over to a buddies house and we both comfirmed that the picture has a color alignment issue. All of the sharpness test patterns on AVIA had a ghost/shadow ring around it so I will be sending my current H77 in for a new one...

Optoma's Customer Service A+++

Did you reduce the sharpness control on the H77? having it too high will introduce ringing.

Gary.

Projector People's customer service is top notch. They've already sent me a shipping label to overnight my H77 to them and then they are going to overnight me a new H77... Now thats class.

BTW, I ran over to a buddies house and we both comfirmed that the picture has a color alignment issue. All of the sharpness test patterns on AVIA had a ghost/shadow ring around it so I will be sending my current H77 in for a new one...

Optoma's Customer Service A+++

Let us know about the new machine? Maybe you got a lens that was off (hand picked parts) ;). Next time you test try not using max lens shift and check sharpness with Avia. I set mine to 3 or zero, mostly 3.

Use your new DVI player, which one Pany S77 or Oppo I forget? Some analog players are soft. Best players were using the Matsushita Mpeg up front like the Pany XP30, Denon 1600, actually most of the early Pany's. The S77, S97 is using the Matsushita, Oppo the Meditac which is also very good and gives sharp images.

I'm considering the H77 as an upgrade for my 2.5 year old Sanyo PLV-Z1.
I have been reading most of this thread, but not quite all of it yet ;)
I have a couple of questions :

1) what's the lamp life like on this PJ ?
How long do you have on your lamp if you own the H77 ? Did you have to replace the lamp, and if so at how many hours ?

My main reason for upgrading is my Z1 went through 6 lamps in 2.5 years, with about 3 hours a day of viewing. At $300 a pop and 30 days lamp warranty only, it gets expensive. So my next PJ will not be a Sanyo .

I was planning on upgrading my Z1 at the 3 year mark when it goes out of warranty. But now I think it will get the Z1 fixed and keep it as a backup PJ.

2) Where I can see a demo of the H77 in the SF bay area ?
I saw a demo of the Infocus 7205 on friday at Magnolia and was very impressed by the picture and brightness. But I also noticed the fan was a bit loud. And the 7205 is out of my price range; while the street price of the H77 is very attractive with the current offers going on and allows it to just make the cut.

I have a Da-Lite Permwall High power 92x52 (106" diagonal) screen. My living room is very small - 14x11x about 12' with vaulted ceiling. It has good light control - very thick blue velvet curtains on the wnidow that keep all sunlight out; though some light leaks from upstairs and the kitchen still, which is fixable with better window treatments there too ...

I'm currently projecting from a distance of about 12' from the screen and a height of about 6', from a deep and wide shelf located above the couch (just above the couch - so you can see why I'd worry about noise).

According to the calculator on projector central, It looks like the H77 will work if I project from 12'3" and fully use the 1.35x zoom .

Madbrain the H77 will work fine for you, since you already have a Highpower. If I were you I would shelf mount it though. That way you can put it all the way back and not be at the end of the zoom. Shelf mounted works better for the Highpower,H77 combo anyway, that way you can utilize more gain, just try to get as close as possible towards the center of the screen without getting close to your head. Another thing great about shelf mounting it is you could have your equipment right below it, that way wiring and cabling is shorter. And with a Quality made shelf looks great to.

As far as lamp life goes I do not recall anybody having any problems with them going out premature. I had 700 hrs on my 1st unit that I sent back for lockup problems.

Optoma will give you a demo, if you call them and make a appointment. They are within 30 miles of you. What is nice about that, if there are any firmware upgrades or if you have a problem you can drop it off to them instead of trusting UPS or Fedex with your Projector. We all know how they handle packages.

I had a Z1 as my first projector when it first come out. You will love the difference. They do not even compare.

There are some good deals on the H77 right now. One dealer offers a extra year warranty and extra lamp, you can't beat that.

Both Optoma and PP have advertizing bars on this website.
Dale

azjetski,

Thanks for your informative answers !

My projector is currently just sitting on a shelf, and can be moved anywhere on it, so how will mounting the H77 to the shelf make much difference?

Re: moving the equipment, my equipment rack is way too big to be put underneath the shelf - I have two sanus towers which are full, with 4 levels each : Yamaha RX-V2400 receiver, Yamaha CDM-900 110 CD changer, Dish 508 PVR, Dish 921 HD PVR, Samsung SIR-T165 OTA tuner, JVC 30000 DVHS VCR, Aiwa MX100 multisystem VCR, Sony PS2, Sony SCD-CE775 5 SACD changer, Pioneer DV-656 DVD player, and the Energy Veritas center on top . The Da-lite screen starts above all this, at a height of about 55" .
What's underneath the projector shelf currently is the couch, and I wouldn't want to move the couch forward, because that would make the viewing position way too close to the 106" screen.

I didn't really want a screen that big originally when I got my PJ, but the Z1 properties forced me to - that was the smallest image it would project from 12' . I put a 2' deep shelf so I could project from 12' and not 13', which would have made it even bigger. Also, the Z1 exhausts to the back, and I needed 1' of space in the back, which is the reason the shelf is 2' and not 1' deep .

I see that the H77 is also about 1' deep. Where does it exhaust ? To the sides or to the back ? If to the back, then I will pretty much be forced to keep the same projecting position - I wouldn't want to risk the life of the new PJ by not having enough space to vent.

I have seen the deal with PP with the extra warranty and lamp. I bought my Z1 and screen from them also 2.5 years ago. I have been happy wit PP's support but not with Sanyo, though. I hope Optoma is better.

Them being local is indeed a big bonus, if they can do a demo in their local office in Milpitas, which is only about 10 miles from me.

Great to hear that you had a Z1 before - I guess that will make the ugprade really worth it. Given the state of the color on my Z1, even with the last new lamp I got, I think the blue LCD panel has been shot. My last THX calibration showed the blue level needed to be at 55 and red / green in the 29 range (this is on a 0 - 64 scale),, so I expect it will be a really big upgrade ;). Plus there is this large, wide blue halo on top of every picture on my Z1, and about 3 big dust blobs . I think I'm just about ready for a DLP ... Or anything else than a Z1 really . I was looking at LCD and plasma TVs as well as possible replacement since they wouldn't have high lamp replacement costs; but I ended up liking the LCD best, and that was only 37", just 12% of my current screen size. I couldn't get myself to downsize that much ... So I think it's gonna be another PJ instead. Still thinking about it. Decisions, decsions ...

Madbrain
The H77 vents to the side. The exit is at the rear of the right side if you are facing the screen

"My projector is currently just sitting on a shelf, and can be moved anywhere on it, so how will mounting the H77 to the shelf make much difference"

madbrain,
I don't think he meant attaching it to the shelf. Mounting it in AVS speak is where you place the projector. So a shelf mount is what you currently have.

Madbrain that is good news that you already have a shelf up. You should be able to get it almost butted up to your wall. Of coarse you do not want to put to much stress on your video cables since the connection panel is in the back. And yes when it is shelf mounted it will just have to sit on it not mounted solid to it, unless you want it mounted that way. The exhaust is on the right side if you are looking at the front of the projector. The intake is on the bottom of it.

I did not know if your equipment was already in a permeanent place or not. Also the vertical lens shift will have to have the center of the lens within the top to the bottom of the screen. Of coarse if you have not already realized it the H77 does not have a horizontal lens shift like the Z1 does. So the lens will have to be lined up to the center of the screen horizontally

Dale

azjetski,

OK, if I can put it all the way against the wall, then I can probably project from about 12' 7" or so .
I already realized the H77 does not have horizontal lens shift, but that's OK because my shelf is quite wide and I can easily position the projector lens in the horizontal center of the screen.

I have been reading more of this thread, and others about the H7X, and I'm getting increasingly worried ...
It seems there were some issues with displaying PAL signals early on. Have these been resolved on the US units too, or just the european ones ? Is that one of the things the "upgrade" is supposed to fix ?

Reason I ask is that even though I live in the US, I have a non-converting DVD player and watch some PAL DVDs. I like the PQ much better with a nonconverting players - the DVD players that convert produce pictures that are not watchable on projection screens in my experience.

I also have a faily large collection of SECAM VHS tapes, which I watch by sending the native composite SECAM signal to my projector, or transcoded to PAL, but never converted to NTSC, as that loses a large amount of picture quality and color. I do have a converting VCR for the tapes, but I prefer to watch them natively, as I do currently on my Z1. The ability to view multisystem was one of the key factors that made me choose a projector originally in fact - as it's nearly impossible to find TVs that decode PAL or SECAM even from their video inputs in the US ...

The whole thread about the "upgrade" that isn't going to happen after all was also quite interesting and aggravating. Basically it looks like to get the upgrade, which contains the PAL fix, one needs to buy the H78 for an extra 4 figure amount ... But the H78 is out of my price range.

azjetski,

Reason I ask is that even though I live in the US, I have a non-converting DVD player and watch some PAL DVDs. I like the PQ much better with a nonconverting players - the DVD players that convert produce pictures that are not watchable on projection screens in my experience.


This just doesn't make much sense! Understand that everything but native resolution will be scaled to the native resolution of the panel, 720P in this case. If you do it on the DVD player you eliminate possible D/A - A/D conversions (if using component) and if running 480p over HDMI/DVI you are effectively running through two image processors. The fact is everything but native panel resolution needs to be scaled, if you do it on the DVD player you eliminate any extra image processing and provide the cleanest digital data to the PJ. Maybe you experienced a bad setup or a bad upscaling DVD player. If the PJ has a better scaler/deinterlacer then the upscaling DVD player I can understand your results but you really need to compare apples to apples (i.e. comparable scaling/deinterlacer chips) before claiming such a general statement about upconverting players.

I purchased a Oppo for my H77 and must say the PQ is outstanding. I don't think it is head over heels better then using component but in a direct comparison it is noticeably better upscaled on the Oppo and delivered over DVI.

Hi, Tom!

I wanna know which of these two options is better in terms of image quality:

1) Optoma H57 + DVDO iScan HD Plus
2) Optoma H77 + any average DVD player with progressive scan

Thank you!

Hands down the H77. These players are not average. Oppo $199, Pany S77 $249, Pany S97 $299. These all produce sharp clean images with excellent deinterlacing. Thru DVI with the projector set at native and the player at 720p you'll be 1.1 pixel matched for the clearist image you can get.

This just doesn't make much sense! Understand that everything but native resolution will be scaled to the native resolution of the panel, 720P in this case. If you do it on the DVD player you eliminate possible D/A - A/D conversions (if using component) and if running 480p over HDMI/DVI you are effectively running through two image processors. The fact is everything but native panel resolution needs to be scaled, if you do it on the DVD player you eliminate any extra image processing and provide the cleanest digital data to the PJ. Maybe you experienced a bad setup or a bad upscaling DVD player. If the PJ has a better scaler/deinterlacer then the upscaling DVD player I can understand your results but you really need to compare apples to apples (i.e. comparable scaling/deinterlacer chips) before claiming such a general statement about upconverting players.

I purchased a Oppo for my H77 and must say the PQ is outstanding. I don't think it is head over heels better then using component but in a direct comparison it is noticeably better upscaled on the Oppo and delivered over DVI.

It got nothing to do with resolution. PAL is 50hz. The player need to convert it to 60hz for NTSC standard. It usually done poorly. I watch all my Zone 2 movie with my OPPO 720p 50hz for best quality. I don't see anything wrong with them.

Bruno

Thanks!

Now, between the H57, with higher contrast ratio, and the SP7205, with higher resolution. Which one would be better?

I´m kinda worried, because I´ve read that the SP7205 has low-level noise (dithering), and that doesn´t happen on the H57.

bgosselin got it right - it is the frame rate conversion in DVD players that causes issues .
And my experience is that it is *much* preferable to let the projector handle it rather than the player. Which is why I don't have a converting DVD player.
And when I watch PAL/SECAM tapes, I set my VCR not to convert and let the projector convert. Huge difference. There is horrible blinking of the picture otherwise, which is never supposed to happen on a progressive display like a PJ ...

That said, my non-converting DVD player is capable of converting PAL to component 576i rather than just straight PAL over s-video, so maybe there won't be any problem with the H77 if the problem was only the PAL color decoding in the PJ.

However my VCR only sends composite PAL or SECAM. My Yamaha receiver upconverts the composite to s-video successfully. But it is unable to upconvert the PAL/SECAM composite to component, as it can with NTSC composite signals. When I try that, it just loses all the color ... So I have to watch PAL/SECAM tapes by sending PAL/SECAM over S-video to the PJ, and let the PJ handle color decoding and frame rate conversion. If the US model H77 has a problem with that, then it's not the PJ for me ... Certainly my current PLV-Z1 does not have a problem with it. I don't see the artifacts in the pictures that have been posted earlier about PAL DVDs.

Try the Oppo... I don't use PAL but Bruno reports success with PAL and Oppo upscaling.

err, bgosselin just said he watches PAL discs on his Oppo in 720p 50 Hz. Which means he lets the PJ do the framerate conversion, not the player. Also, if I understand correctly, the Oppo is a DVD player, so it doesn't help any with PAL/SECAM VHS tapes .

How does the H77 perform with ambient light, a small 40 watt bulb &/or daylight, neither shining on the screen, will this do the job or should I look for a brighter projector?

The H77 is 385lumens in econo and 585 in bright mode. The H79 would be more suited for light, it's at 585lumens in econo and 775 in bright.

Hey Gary Lightfoot, help me out. :) Or anybody else.

I got 25.5foot candles with the Optoma Movie Time last night. What am I looking at for lumens on a 92"X52" 1.0gain screen?

I think that's higher than the H79 in brite mode, pretty sure I got 22FTc.

How does the H77 perform with ambient light, a small 40 watt bulb &/or daylight, neither shining on the screen, will this do the job or should I look for a brighter projector?

Really depends on where the light will be and either the "small 40 watt bulb" or DAYLIGHT. The small bulb, as long as it is not near the screen, will probably have little influence as long as you are watching bright material (i.e. not trying to watch scary movies/dark scenes) but even the littlest bit of day light is a real KILLER for FP! So there is HUGE difference here between a "small 40 watt bulb" and daylight! I think the H77 would be fine with the bulb for sports and HDTV or brighter (comedy) DVDs. I would recommend using a directional light that would minimize ligth to the screen. However even a H79 is going to wash out very fast with daylight unless you have a black screen.

Tom,

Between the H57, with higher contrast ratio, and the SP7205, with higher resolution. Which one would be better?

I´m kinda worried, because I´ve read that the SP7205 has low-level noise (dithering), and that doesn´t happen on the H57.

I think you'll be happier with the 7205 becuase of the HDTV advantage. It's a very bright projector so you could use a ND filter, then tune up the blacks and contrast you should be able to lower video noise

The thing is once you've owned a 720p projector there's no going back to an XGA res projector. Any 720p - Sharp Z2000, Benq7700, Tosh700 and all the others. I mentioned the bargin ones first. :)
good luck

Well, I've received my second H77... Let me know what you think...

Look at the left side of Parker's face... Especially in the 3rd pic. The shadow of his outlined face.

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/252/252396/folders/189466/1650367IMGsp1.JPG

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/252/252396/folders/189466/1650369IMGsp2.JPG

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/252/252396/folders/189466/1650370IMGsp3.JPG

His should line shadow in the second pic...

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/252/252396/folders/189466/1650371IMGinc1.JPG

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/252/252396/folders/189466/1650372IMGinc2.JPG

The images are from the Panasonic DVD-S77 and are ran via component at 480p (can't upconvert with component).

Is this a normal trademark of DLP projectors? Kinda like VB on LCD...

Looks like source edge enhancement.

Yes, that definitely looks like edge enhancement from the dvd. Funny though, I just watched the Incredibles a couple of days ago on my H77 and did not notice the EE that is in your pictures.

I have read probably 60% of the 100+ pages in this thread so hopefully this question isn't in the remaining 40%...I did do a quick search but mostly just found some confirmation in the early part of the thread...

From trying to calibrate, I see that I can not adjust color or tint on the DVI input (and no tint on the digital component). From reading, I see that this is normal and intended. So my question, I suppose, is "Why is that ?".

I am using an HTPC, via the DVI, for DVD material atm and it is stated that adjusting colors in the software is an inferior option and that calibrating the PJ, rather than input source, is desirable. Yet, as far as colors go, that option is unavailable with the H77. Well, there are the advanced color brightness/contrast controls but no Color (saturation) or Tint.

I feel like I am missing something here...Is there a reason people shouldn't calibrate color (saturation) and tint on the DVI input ?

- Kel

To calibrate to D65 you should use the advanced RGB controls, but you can use the gamma and saturation on the HTPC if you want. TV gamma gives a better curve than the other gammas available on the pj, and tv1 is the one recommended by Greg Rogers who reviewed it in Widescreen Review. I'm using tv3 to give me a gamma of 2.55 (tv1 gives 2.26) and I've only adjusted the brightness and contrast in the HTPC as it was clipping the black bars from a test disk, so I needed to raise the black level a little on the HTPC to make it visible. I then adjusted the brightness and contrast in the pj.

Gary.

Looks like source edge enhancement.

What does EE do? Can I adjust it via DVD player or H77?

It's on the DVD, they think it makes for a more 3D image. :)

How this new one on sharpness? Does it look more like that Fifth Element shot I posted?

Hi,


Optoma will give you a demo, if you call them and make a appointment. They are within 30 miles of you. What is nice about that, if there are any firmware upgrades or if you have a problem you can drop it off to them instead of trusting UPS or Fedex with your Projector. We all know how they handle packages.



Actually I live 7.5 miles from Optoma HQ ;) I called them today for a demo. The rep called back and said that they don't have any H77 in stock, so they can't show it to me. Seems to me the H77 may be on its way out. But the rep. would demo the H79 for me. I don't think I want to demo the H79, since it's a PJ I can't afford. The deal on the H77 with free lamp and 3yr warranty is hard to pass, but I still want to see it before I order it - ordering a PJ and returning it if I don't like is a hassle.

Re: upgrades on-site, I didn't discuss that with the rep, but I'll try next week and see if they bite. That would indeed be an advantage if they are willing.

Great thread - read what I could from the past 4 months. I have a room that is 22' from back wall to screen. I will have a 120 inch diagnal screen.

I wanted to go with a 720p DLP and for the price range I was looking at the
BENq PE77 (was the only choice in the price range). Now with the PP deal with the price, lamp, warranty - is H77 the way to go?

Does anyone know the major differences between these two? I'm researching projectorcen to compare and only see the color wheel that jumps out at me as a difference.

Has anyone actually compared these two models against each other as the price range is now so close?


thanks for any thoughts - It's amazing how fast I can change my mind on a projector in this market...

Gary

Gary,

Check out the review at www.projectorreviews.com

Gary,

Check out the review at www.projectorreviews.com


I'm there - but they don't compare the Optoma H77 to the Benq PE77

The closest they review is "Capsule Review: BenQ PE7700 vs Toshiba MT700 "

Since the price for the H77 is so close to the Benq PE77, I would like to see if anyone as tried out both of these and has any thoughts. I just printed out the specs for both, but nothing is better than actual input from someone who has seen both.

thanks for the link though, good info,

Gary

I just found this:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/comments_hd2+.htm

It's the Benq 8700 compated, not the same, but a helpful review comparing to the Optoma H77.

Gary

Wow - just found this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=569961

Gary,

In this review on PJR, they compare the H78, BenQ7700, & Marantz S4. In this group the BenQ would be considered the Low end and the Marantz the High End.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/review.asp?reid=43

There are very few differences between the H77/78/79. Depending on the luck of the draw with the bulb some would claim/argue that there are no differences at all.

Gary,

In this review on PJR, they compare the H78, BenQ7700, & Marantz S4. In this group the BenQ would be considered the Low end and the Marantz the High End.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/review.asp?reid=43

There are very few differences between the H77/78/79. Depending on the luck of the draw with the bulb some would claim/argue that there are no differences at all.

That's interesting as the H79 is in the 10K range? H77 is a sweet deal at it's current price.

Does anyone know if the zoom on the H77 will allow for an autoswitch from 16:9 to 4:3 FULL SCREEN?

This review on projectorcental for the H79 allows for this, does the H77?

"This unit (Optoma H79) has a powered zoom and focus lens, with a 1.35x zoom range. While quite convenient, it may be of limited usefulness in a permanent theater set-up if you are using a 16:9 screen. However, it supports a unique installation option for those who like very large scale 4:3 presentation. You can install a 4:3 screen, and set the H79 to fill it side-to-side with a 16:9 image. Then if you want to go very large format for something like Gone with the Wind, which is a 4:3 film, you can use the power zoom to fill the 4:3 screen. Practically speaking, this installation option is only available with projectors that have powered zoom lenses and a zoom range of at least 1.33x, and the H79 is one of the few that do."

Also, I've been reading about the panning issue with the H77 on another thread and about Optoma refuses to fix via firmware. I will be calling B&H tomorrow to see if the ones they carry already have the fix. When I spoke to the sales guy, he was not aware of ANY defect in the panning that required a firmware fix.

Gary

Gary - The problem is that it won't do it automatically, you will have to zoom and focus, using the remote, each time you switch. However, yes, the H77 will do this trick.

Aren't there any "saved" settings that work with one click of the remote? Click for 16:9, click for 4:3 full, etc? wishful thinking?

gary

Gary - Not that involve the focus or zoom. It would be a nice feature, though.

that's a bummer. in the reviews for the H79, them make is sound like a feature.

I wonder if you plan the placement just right, and if the zoom is not incremental, meaning start at 1:1 and switch to 1:1.33 and woila, full screen filled. Does it allow the zoom with one click, and then you have to focus?


sorry for all the questions, just getting an education. I would/will probably buy the H77 none the less...

gary

BTW - nice unofficial review you have there Ursa. Very informational.

gary

No the zoom does not have pre-set stops

I just talked to Robert at Optoma support and informed him of my need to view PAL sources. I was told that if I purchased a unit that didn't have the latest C17 upgrade, that I could get an RMA and drop it locally for an upgrade at no charge.
I think based on this I'm going to pull the trigger on the H77 within the next couple of days. I'm still investigating if I can get an extra bulb warranty with Mack or Repairmaster before I purchase it (after having my Sanyo Z1 go through 6 bulbs in 2.5 years, I'm really paranoid about bulb costs ...).

How this new one on sharpness? Does it look more like that Fifth Element shot I posted?

It's going back and I'm deciding if there's going to be a round 3... The second one had a better picture (or maybe it was growing on me) but the problem was powering up. It would power up with zero picture, then the fan would go in high mode and the red bulb light would come on for about 2 minutes and then turn off... I pulled the bulb and reinstalled it and it worked for a couple of days and then started all over again.

I want to love this projector but so far 2 different problems equals 2 strikes. This 3rd one better be singing or Optoma is going to have some problems...

Round 3...

Does anyone know how close to the ceiling I can mount this optoma H77 unit? My screen on will be flush with the ceiling (just about) and only have 2 1/2 inches of black border before the top of the viewable screen. Will this work?

I attached a pic of the situation to help.

thanks,

Gary

http://www.geocities.com/garykagan/viewingfrompersons3.JPG

As long as the projector is within the frame of the screen you'll be fine, so any mount will put it down low enough to use.

Scott

What he said...... :-)

Personally I am not familiar with a mount that would keep the center of the lens within 2.5" of the ceiling... but what do I know!

The cheif mounts are good but the lens will still be down several inches, about 6 I think. The flushest mount I ever saw was a DIY. The guy made a metal plate with keyholes in it, made a wooded plate for the ceiling with large screws. He would then twist the keyhole setup onto the ceiling plate. That was for the HT1000 wonder what every happened to that member Treasvelt or something from Sweden. The old days :)

The Vogel universal mount is inexpensive and low profile. For this arrangement it would work well. It does take a slight mod (drill it's mounting holes out one size).

I will be making the mount myself. I was able to squeeze another 1 1/2 inches (brought the screen lower in my design) so the proj lens will be 4 inches from the ceiling. I'll check the specs on the proj size and see if this is possible.

thanks guys,

Gary

I will be making the mount myself. I was able to squeeze another 1 1/2 inches (brought the screen lower in my design) so the proj lens will be 4 inches from the ceiling. I'll check the specs on the proj size and see if this is possible. Gary, you should not have to move your screen at all. It can go right up against teh ceiling and the PJ could be anywhere from flush with the ceiling to 4' below the ceiling. Rightside up or down. Don't let the PJ drive your PJ position in your case. The lens shift knob is your buddy :)

Cool - good to know. I appreciate the reply.

thanks!

Gary

I'm interested in getting either the H77 or the H79 depending on how prices shift after the show. What I wanted to know whas what sort of DVD player people would recomend for the H77. I've got a Toshiba SD-3109 and it's OLD from the begining of the DVD introduction. It's not even Progressive. I'm going from a 27in SDTV to around 100"-120" on the H77/79 option and was hoping to hold off buying a new DVD player until the HD wars are settled.
But what I want to know is would I see and improvement by picking up a cheap $20-$50 progressive player or will it now matter because the projector is going to do a better job of upscalling it anyway straight from 480i over component (best cables on the DVD player)

Also will I see an improvement using component cables over the S-video I was hopping to pick up an HDMI switching receiver next year when the prices on those go down. So buying a high quality 50' component cable is an expense I'd rather skip if it's not going to be noticable.

I'v read that the scallar in the H77 is not as good as the H79 so I'm also asking if it's worth dropping another $200-300 on a Panny S77 or S97. Because if it's not my wifes going to say. "Hey we had a two disk dvd player before what's this?" I'd rather avoid this as I'd rather drop the money on a HD unit in two years if a basic progressive will look nice with the projector.

Thanks.

DVI players at 1.1 pixel match = killer quality
Component progressive = ok
S-video = minus 1 ok

I'd get the S77 and a digital cable.

Thanks.

DVI players at 1.1 pixel match = killer quality

I'd get the S77 and a digital cable.

Why not go for the $199 Oppo 971H and run an HDMI cable with HDMI-DVI converters on each end?

That way when he gets his HDMI switching receiver he will be "good to go" and in the meantime he will still be enjoying the best PQ. In the few reviews I have read both the S97 and Oppo seem to have better PQ than the S77.

I'm not sure how powerfull the S77 is but I had problems with a 30' ethereal cable and a couple of other cables with the Oppo. I got smart gave up and installed a dedicated shelf 7ft away from my projector. There's no signal loss in sending a super long optical audio cable back to the receiver, which is at the other end of the room. Problems solved I can use any cheap DVI cable now, player whatever.
Everything works Bravo D2 which was trouble and the good old Oppo, with any projector.

At super long DVI cable runs people can have some headaches. The players send different levels and different projectors draw/receive at different levels.

Which was one of the reasons I was going with the HDMI cable (as well as future functionality) instead of the DVI.

However, I am using the Oppo with a 30' DVI cable, a Gefen switcher, and another 6' DVI cable with no problems at all!

That's good to know. One of the things I love about this forum is when to other people start discussing something you need to know. It always bings out the little tweak you don't find out about till you've spent you money. I'll probably go with the oppo and an hdmi cable with converters. It's good to know you're already running 30' in that setup which cable do you have HiHo?

It is a 40' single link cable I purchased from Ram (forum sponsor). I do not know the spec's on it, but it is purple in color! :-)

I know the first one I ordered was too short, not being prescient when I built the HT seven years ago the conduit I ran was not large enough to support component cables AND a DVI connector! So I wound up running the DVI cable around the edges of the room under the carpet and then up the corner of the wall and across the back to the projector... good thing the walls are deep maroon, that purple cable blended right in!

But if you call the folks at RAM and ask them about their "purple" DVI cable they can probably direct you to the right one.

There are also a number of other "quality" DVI cables available from various sources if you do a search here on AVS... this just happens to be the only one I have experience with.

........................

I checked my old emails and it was a 40' cable that I purchased. The Customer Service person I dealt with was Valerie DeCola.

I still worry about any long cable now after the Ethereal was a no go. You may have different results with others but I'll bet cables vary between themselves, with each company's best. Maybe I got an off Ethereal.

Still happy with my remedy, go short go cheap $12.95 get the signal for sure. ;)

I still worry about any long cable now after the Ethereal was a no go. You may have different results with others but I'll bet cables vary between themselves, with each company's best. Maybe I got an off Ethereal.

Still happy with my remedy, go short go cheap $12.95 get the signal for sure. ;)

I know you mentioned 15 feet for good and cheap, but you also mentioned under 25 feet is good. I need to get a 25 foot dvi cable and planned on going real cheap (ebay or something). Is this a mistake?

I found this at mycableshop.com for under $40 - good cable? who knows?

Premium DVI-I Dual Link Cable - 25 Foot Dual Link Digital & Analog DVI-I Male to Male Cable - 9.9 Gbps - with Ferrites



Gary

FWIW, it took me three tries to get a 15m cable that worked.

I thought I had read that the H77/H79 would save calibration settings (advanced settings) by input AND Mode (Cinema, Normal, Vivid). The input settings save just fine but only the "basic" settings (brightness, contrast, color, etc..) are unique per mode setting. I am using DVI for DVD and component for HDTV, Xbox, PC through a switch box. How am I suppose to calibrate the different component devices? Is this the same with the DVI if I started using more then one device on the DVI input with a DVI switch box?
Although the biggest difference is between DVI and component most of my component devices seems to be fairly close so far but each could use some fine tuning. Probably not a big problem but I though I read that the settings were saved per input AND per mode setting so you could have more then 1 setting for an input.

Thanks...

I used a 40ft DVI from bluejeans and worked from htpc to pj w/ no problems. Not ebay cheap though.

I know you mentioned 15 feet for good and cheap, but you also mentioned under 25 feet is good. I need to get a 25 foot dvi cable and planned on going real cheap (ebay or something). Is this a mistake?

I found this at mycableshop.com for under $40 - good cable? who knows?

Premium DVI-I Dual Link Cable - 25 Foot Dual Link Digital & Analog DVI-I Male to Male Cable - 9.9 Gbps - with Ferrites



Gary

I got two 25' cables that didn't work with the Oppo or Bravo D2, that's why I tried the Ethereal.

It's the devices vs the projector, those 25' cables would work the all the projectors with the Bravo D1 and the Tosh 5970.

The H77 has DVI-I inputs, the Marantz 8500 has DVI-D inputs/outputs, the Sony 995 (400 disk changer) as HDMI out and the HTPC I plan to make has DVI-I outputs.

I plan to connect the HTPC (DVI-I to DVI-D) to the Marantz. Is there a DVI-I to DVI-D cable?

Sony 995 HDMI to Marantz DVI-D I have seen these cables/converters so no problem here.

25 foot cable then needed from Marantz DVI-D to DVI-I Optoma H77 (again, does this cable exist?)

Bluejeans cables are reasonable for 25 foot dual link DVI-D, so I could go with them if they supply what I need.

Gary

Optoma told me the projectors will accept DVI-I or DVI-D. Whether there's different information coming from the Marantz with it's DVD-D recommendation I don't know, but I doubt it. The Marantz probably works like any other DVD player.

gaykagan,

Yes, you can connect DVI-I to DVI-D .

DVI-I is a superset of DVI-D . DVI-I includes both analog and digital signals. DVI connectors that only carry analog are called DVI-A; those that carry only digital are DVI-D; and those that carry both are DVI-I . Different pins are used on the DVI connector to carry those signals.

You can use a DVI-D / DVI-D signal to connect your DVD player to the Optoma. It will work fine. The analog pins of the DVI-I connector on the Optoma will just not be connected and thus unused.

Celebrating now!

When I bought mine, I thought I would have to install mine on the ceiling. I wasn't looking forward to that. The plan was to go for a 92" screen. After getting the projector, I held it in various positions to see what I have. To my surprise, I found that I could possibly put it on a shelf in the back of the room, and maybe do a 106" screen. With that size, I would have to do a rollup, but it would fit the wall.

Well, today I put up the shelf on the rear wall, put the projector on it and turned it on. Doing the measurements, with it zoomed in all the way, I have it exactly the right size to do a 106" screen. So, my order went in for a graywolf. I'm on my way!

Jason

There isn't a day that goes by where I don't appreciate my H77. As I compare it to pj after pj, I continue to be amazed at how good it looks in comprison. I saw a $42000 Qualia yesterday, and it blew me out of the water to see how good the H77 looked in comparison to the Qualia. Now many would say I must be on crack, but if I didn't see it with my own eyes I wouldn' have believed it. Even out of the box it should crush my $4200 machine. I guess you don't always get what you pay for. BTW, the bulb costs $4000, yikes.

Celebrating now!

When I bought mine, I thought I would have to install mine on the ceiling. I wasn't looking forward to that. The plan was to go for a 92" screen. After getting the projector, I held it in various positions to see what I have. To my surprise, I found that I could possibly put it on a shelf in the back of the room, and maybe do a 106" screen. With that size, I would have to do a rollup, but it would fit the wall.

Well, today I put up the shelf on the rear wall, put the projector on it and turned it on. Doing the measurements, with it zoomed in all the way, I have it exactly the right size to do a 106" screen. So, my order went in for a graywolf. I'm on my way!

Jason


That's my combo, how close to your eye level can you put the shelf?

That's my combo, how close to your eye level can you put the shelf?

The shelf is about 6.5 feet off the floor. That's really about as low as I can put it.

Jason

I am very new to projectors. I just recently purchased an H77. Everything is great except for the fact that there is about a inch or so of "dark area" or "flashing points of colors" on the right side of the screen. Which one depends on what channel I am watching. I am using SVideo cables at the moment and I do not have an HDTV receiver. I have tried every adjustment I can think of and just can't get rid of it. Also, the left edge of the picture is a sharp line, but the right side is a little fuzzy. Anyone have any ideas? If I need to provide more information let me know what to include. It is worse in 4:3 but it (mainly the dark area) is visible in all other modes.

Thanks,
Pokerman

I am very new to projectors. I just recently purchased an H77. Everything is great except for the fact that there is about a inch or so of "dark area" or "flashing points of colors" on the right side of the screen. Which one depends on what channel I am watching. I am using SVideo cables at the moment and I do not have an HDTV receiver. I have tried every adjustment I can think of and just can't get rid of it. Also, the left edge of the picture is a sharp line, but the right side is a little fuzzy. Anyone have any ideas? If I need to provide more information let me know what to include. It is worse in 4:3 but it (mainly the dark area) is visible in all other modes.

Thanks,
Pokerman

I just realized while watching television that when I use the on screen guide for dish network it fills the screen and eliminates the dark area on the right edge. Evidently it is a problem dish network's TV signal and not with the projector (thank goodness). If any body has dish network please let me know if you have the same problem.

Thanks Again,
Pokerman

When watching TV I'll use 16.9 aspect which has 1% overscan, if that doesn't do enough I'll use the digital zoom, or vertical shift if the junk is just at the top.

Just also something else I found out.. I have the Optoma H77 and the Panny S97 and a bluejeanscable 30" DVI-D cable. for the Panny I needed a DVI to HDMI adapter. BUT I could have done the reverse.. got a 30' HDMI cable and then got a HDMI to DVI adapter. What I found was that the DVI cable was cheaper HDMI cable,....so it made more sense economically to get the long DVI cable.



B

Speaking of DVI cables, I cannot get my H77 to recognize my LG DVD player. Player locks up and H77 keeps looking for an active port. Any advice?

Answered my own question. DVD player freezes when DVI hooked up. Seems the Player has to be repaired.

Hi Guitarman,

I think I have seen posts where you have an H79, and this one says H77. Do you have both? I see you've been tuning projectors, too. Would you recommend the H79 over the H77? My new media room is completely light-controlled (no windows), about 14 feet by 12 feet.

Thanks for your advice!

Rob

For sure on the H79 it's allot better than the H77 but comes at a premium. It has much more contrast and is much brighter, will stay brighter longer. The H77 is a fine projector and if you won't torture yourself thinking I should hv got the other one and would like the savings, I think you could live with it. :)

garykagan,

Yes, you can connect DVI-I to DVI-D .

DVI-I is a superset of DVI-D . DVI-I includes both analog and digital signals. DVI connectors that only carry analog are called DVI-A; those that carry only digital are DVI-D; and those that carry both are DVI-I . Different pins are used on the DVI connector to carry those signals.

You can use a DVI-D / DVI-D signal to connect your DVD player to the Optoma. It will work fine. The analog pins of the DVI-I connector on the Optoma will just not be connected and thus unused.

OK - So I need a DVI-D cable to go from the Marantz 8500 receiver to the Optoma H77. If I go with bluejeanscable, they have the single link and the dual link at the same price for 23 feet. The single link comes with a GOLD connector, the dual with the NICKEL connector. Will I get a better signal with the gold connector? I'm guessing the Optoma H77 will have no effect with the dual link (probably as well as the Marantz receiver), so why go for Dual link - right?

Gary

Just also something else I found out.. I have the Optoma H77 and the Panny S97 and a bluejeanscable 30" DVI-D cable. for the Panny I needed a DVI to HDMI adapter. BUT I could have done the reverse.. got a 30' HDMI cable and then got a HDMI to DVI adapter. What I found was that the DVI cable was cheaper HDMI cable,....so it made more sense economically to get the long DVI cable.



B
similar boat here...connecting a denon 3910 to the h77 with a 30' cable. i can actually go DVI > DVI, but i've read about some problems with running HDMI signal over DVI. something about black crush or something because the implementations are not exactly the same, even though the pinout is. so i'm planning on putting in an hdmi cable for upgradeability with hdmi > dvi adapters on both ends, 3910 > dvi/hdmi adpt > hdmi cable > hdmi/dvi adpt > h77.

and if i can verify no problems with 3910 > hdmi cable > hdmi/dvi adpt > h77, i can return one of the adapters and still be future-proof, hopefully.

i haven't actually done this yet, so if it sounds really stupid, please let me know! :o

For sure on the H79 it's allot better than the H77 but comes at a premium. It has much more contrast and is much brighter, will stay brighter longer. The H77 is a fine projector and if you won't torture yourself thinking I should hv got the other one and would like the savings, I think you could live with it. :)

Guitarman,
Not trying to question your judgement but your definition of "allot". Isn't "allot better" and "allot brighter" really pushing it? I thought the calibrated specs were only like 100 lumens apart and contrast wise < 1000:1 difference.

I suppose "allot" means different for different people but I would think allot is more like.... A H79 is allot better then a PE7700...

Do you have any screen shots on similar images from both a calibrated H77 and H79? You should take some next time you have a H77 in for your calibration service. Speaking of which you should also take some pics before and after calibration. Great marketing materials for your service!!

Thanks..

H79 is 585lumens in econo, the H77 is 385 in econo. CR difference is 2930.1 vs 2130.1. The brightness level is the key difference.

Anyway I'm scheduled to get trained on Sept 12th so I can get started on the upgrade. They'll be giving me the firmware/device and the C17 firmware and the upgrade. I was told I'll be using a ribbon inside the machine on one of the boards. Infact this is how they do all their frimwares. With a special device and on the inside of the machines. That's why PJ's are sent in for firmwares.

Tom,

I´m gonna buy a H77. But I´ve read in this forum that it has some "motion artifacts".

Is this true? Will I have this problem?

One more thing: my H57 is a 1100 ANSI projector... and the H77 has 900 ANSI. So, I´m worried with that: the brightness loss with this trade... will it be significant?

Thank you!

The H77 pans like the Sharp Z2000, BenQ7700 & Tosh700. Your H57 may pan the same way, my H31 did and H30 also. What they're talking about is a wavy break up in panning scenes, it's called DLP 1chip dithering. There's an upgrade for the H77 that speeds up the mirror processing which helps the panning and adds brightness and contrast.

There hasn't been a decent review on the H57 testing it's
lumens output and CR that I know of. The H77 is pretty bright and will give you the screen ft lumens you need. If you want it brighter you could use a higher gained screen with it.

H79 is 585lumens in econo, the H77 is 385 in econo. CR difference is 2930.1 vs 2130.1. The brightness level is the key difference.

Anyway I'm scheduled to get trained on Sept 12th so I can get started on the upgrade. They'll be giving me the firmware/device and the C17 firmware and the upgrade. I was told I'll be using a ribbon inside the machine on one of the boards. Infact this is how they do all their frimwares. With a special device and on the inside of the machines. That's why PJ's are sent in for firmwares.

Sweet, thanks for the update on the H77 upgrade and accurate calibrated specs.. :)

Tom,

I´m gonna buy a H77. But I´ve read in this forum that it has some "motion artifacts".

Is this true? Will I have this problem?

One more thing: my H57 is a 1100 ANSI projector... and the H77 has 900 ANSI. So, I´m worried with that: the brightness loss with this trade... will it be significant?

Thank you!

factory specs (lumens and c/r) can be misleading.. The pj I upgraded from was a 2200 lumen 2000:1 c/r and I can tell you I have no issues with brightness and picture quality and c/r are soooo much better.

When picking your screen size and gain just be sure to calculate the Lft and try to be between 12 - 15 at 50-60% (accounting for bulb aging) calibrated lumens (@400-450). I matched a Carada 110" BW with mine and could not be happier!

The H77 pans like the Sharp Z2000, BenQ7700 & Tosh700. Your H57 may pan the same way, my H31 did and H30 also. What they're talking about is a wavy break up in panning scenes, it's called DLP 1chip dithering. There's an upgrade for the H77 that speeds up the mirror processing which helps the panning and adds brightness and contrast.

But all units have this problem? Is it noticeable? I had a SP5700 and I´ve never seen something like that...

Hi! I am new to this and just about lost.

Well, just got back from my new house. My builder is framing the risers today. In the back, there is a 121" ceilig. 6' riser, drop 8", 6' riser, drop 8", remaining 11'. This makes the ceiling at the front 158" (13.16')

The length of the room is 23' and the width is 17'. We want to do a popup ceiling to do some rope lighting. I have complete light control, so ambient light is not a problem. I will be mainly watching movies and only a few games on it, most likely in HD.

I now am facing a projector dilemma. I had just about picked the Optoma H77, but the lens has to be level with the top of the screen. (from what I read). It seems to be the best bang for my buck.

A 106" diagonal screen is 92.4x52 high. Framed is 99x58.6 I was figuring on a Carada, they seem reasonable. I don’t know how to figure it, but I think the projector will have to be suspended quite a ways from the ceiling. I plan to build it into a hush box so its not visible. I dont know anything about tuning or image shifting at all. Any thoughts? I have to get it ordered soon, but was going to wait another week or so until CEIDA.

But all units have this problem? Is it noticeable? I had a SP5700 and I´ve never seen something like that...


There are some critics on here who like to make a big deal out of any imperfection. If you are any bit new to FP and don't go reading up on where to look and see this problem you may not ever even notice it is there. When the H77 came out is was considered one the best PJs available and so people were going to go great lengths to find any and every improfection. No one makes a big deal of the Sharp 2000, BenQ 7700 and other low/mid range pjs (low-end 720P or lower) because they were never considered to be among the best when released and in the value market it's a different ball game.

Hi! I am new to this and just about lost.

Well, just got back from my new house. My builder is framing the risers today. In the back, there is a 121" ceilig. 6' riser, drop 8", 6' riser, drop 8", remaining 11'. This makes the ceiling at the front 158" (13.16')

The length of the room is 23' and the width is 17'. We want to do a popup ceiling to do some rope lighting. I have complete light control, so ambient light is not a problem. I will be mainly watching movies and only a few games on it, most likely in HD.

I now am facing a projector dilemma. I had just about picked the Optoma H77, but the lens has to be level with the top of the screen. (from what I read). It seems to be the best bang for my buck.

A 106" diagonal screen is 92.4x52 high. Framed is 99x58.6 I was figuring on a Carada, they seem reasonable. I don’t know how to figure it, but I think the projector will have to be suspended quite a ways from the ceiling. I plan to build it into a hush box so its not visible. I dont know anything about tuning or image shifting at all. Any thoughts? I have to get it ordered soon, but was going to wait another week or so until CEIDA.

Your offset will determine if you need to hang it low or flush. The H77 can only be mounted about 4" above the top of the screen, or anywhere within the screen! The H77 is pretty big and very quiet so I wouldn't put it in a hushbox!

To calculate Lft (Screen sqft / lumens * screen gain = Lft)

Note: "lumens" should be about 50-60% of calibrated specs to account for bulb aging.

A 106" in a Crarada BW would be a good fit..

My wife says she doesnt want to see it. Thats the only reason for the hush box. My builder is going to build a box to conceal it. since my room has a slope, my concern was that with the 6" popup ceiling that the projector would be an eyesore.

Alex the H77 is a great projector........, but all projectors have "limitations" that are designed in by the manufacturer due to choices that they made during the engineering stage. The fact that the H77 must be mounted within the screen is simply a choice Optoma made probably for optical reasons.

Some folks have claimed they can mount the projector slightly above the screen without problems, but the Optoma literature and most owners tell you the projector must be mounted vertically within the bounderies of the screen. If you try and put the projector at the very end of its lens shift capability you will lose some quality from the optics... no optics are very happy being used at the very extreme edge of their capabilities.

The H77 "IMHO" is happiest being mounted on a shelf at the back of the room.... however due to the length of your room that is going to determine the minimum size of your picture. With very tall ceilings and beams that have to be cleared with the image, the only way I can think of ceiling mounting the H77 to give you WAF approval would be with a motorized mount that will lower the projector when you are ready to use it.

As a suggestion you might read through this thread........

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=520126

This thread details Joel's problems finding a projector to fit his room. Joel unfortunately also had a bunch of equipment issues that drove him nuts, but the projector portions should be of interest and education for you.

What about the Sony HS-51? Is it a good projector?

Does it compare to the H77´s image?

And the H78DC3? Woud it be a better option considering the H77?

I think i will just raise the screen a little, and drop the box down. Another option, if i can get it to 15' throw or so, I will just pop the roof up afterwards. That way I dont have the huge cost of the motorized unit. Since my chair is 14' back, the only ones who will suffer are the peopl behind me lol.

What about the Sony HS-51 (contrast ratio 6000:1)? Is it a good projector?

Does it compare to the H77´s image? Better? Worse?

And the H78DC3? Woud it be a better option considering the H77?

I'm trying to hook my Time Warner HD PVR cable box (Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8000 HD) up to my H77 via DVI, and I'm getting an error message stating that my HDTV is not HDCP compliant. I tried tech support, but they couldn't figure it out. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Randy

Next time first unplug the STB to reboot, keep it unpluged a minute. Turn on the projector, then put the plug back in the STB.

I am having the same problem with my STB (SA 8300HD) and H77...I get the message saying that the display device does not support HDCP. I followed the advice but unfortunately got the same message. For troubleshooting purposes, I have my tv hooked to the STB using an RCA video cable...I tried it with the video cable connected, and then retried without anything but the HDMI to DVI cable attached. The pj didn't even recognize that there was something connected over DVI. I have tried two different DVI cables (Monster and Accoustic Research) and two different STB's. I currently have an HDMI to DVI adapter connected to the STB with a DVI cable going to the pj. Any additional advice?

For this particular instance, I can happily use component cables and get nearly the same image, but I am concerned for future HDMI+HDCP devices. Here is a link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=576588) to my original post that specifically asks wrt the 8300HD.

Maybe an ignorant question, but has anyone had success in connecting the H77 to another device via HDMI+HDCP and/or DVI+HDCP?

Thanks,
Glenn

Have the same problem with H77 and 8300. Even tried to hook up my LG with dvi and it locked up. Got to love the implementation of this new technology :rolleyes:

Tom and HTAddict,

What about the Sony HS-51 (contrast ratio 6000:1)? Is it a good projector?

Does it compare to the H77´s image? Better? Worse?

And the H78DC3? Woud it be a better option considering the H77?

The image on the H78DC3 should have more pop than the HS51 because of ANSI and real world contrast ratio. Things brought up by past HS51 owners are, screen door, low brightness, poor color tracking. I'd stick with a high contrast DLP.

Try to get an H78DC3 is you can swing it.

The image on the H78DC3 should have more pop than the HS51 because of ANSI and real world contrast ratio. Things brought up by past HS51 owners are, screen door, low brightness, poor color tracking. I'd stick with a high contrast DLP.

Try to get an H78DC3 is you can swing it.

So, Tom, you´re saying that the H78DC3 is better than the H77? Which one is brighter, I mean, in their real (and calibrated) performance?

I have a 106 inch gray screen, with 0.8 gain.

The H78DC3 is a step up in performance from the H77. How much is hard to say. It does have the DC3 DLP chip so the panning issue should not be a problem. Not sure what the actual calibrated lumens ended up being on the H78DC3 but a 106 with .8 gain will be a little dim for it. Maybe bright mode would help? Tom should have a good idea of this..

I own a H77 and have never seen a HS-51 but from everthing I have read it I would have to agree with Tom that the H78DC3 or even the H77 would have a more realistic and dynamic picture then the HS-51.

Just to follow up to my post, I did get the H77 to work with a Samsung HD850 upconverting DVD player (HDMI->DVI). The HDMI port on the SA 8300HD is still a no-go, so it will be connected via component cables.

Anyone have first hand experience as to the benefits of a scaler on the Optoma's especially the H77?

Or is it a waste of $$$

P.S. I own an upscaling DVD player and HD Dish, but looking for the best, or close.

Thanks,
Scott

Scott,
In another thread guitarman reported that someone with a iScan and a H7* had to send the iScan in for repair and during that time he used a good upconverting DVD player and couldn't tell the difference between the two.. Any HD signal (upconverted DVD or HDTV) should look great and really not benifit much from a good scaler. However, the internal scaler on the H7* series is not so great so and if you are watching SD you would certainly benefit..

Anyone have first hand experience as to the benefits of a scaler on the Optoma's especially the H77?

Or is it a waste of $$$

P.S. I own an upscaling DVD player and HD Dish, but looking for the best, or close.

Thanks,
ScottSearch the forum for my user ID and Lumagen.

The Lumagen HDP is an awesome addition to a H7x in a nutshel it:
-scales better

-allows perfect pixel-by-pixel mapping on all aspects, and completely bypassed H7x scaler. YOu can literally adjust each aspect one pixel at a time for perfect mapping of each apsect on each input. You decide what get's overscanned, not the box.

- makes it so the H7x NEVER resyncs. It maintains sync at all times. It takes maybe a second to sync on different sources

- has a built in grayscale digital signal generator. Also has ability to do an 11 point RGB grayscale adjustment for bad to the bone D65 tracking

- has 2 DVI inputs so you get a 2x DVI switch for free.

- has multiple memories per input in case you need more DVI's in

- supports SDI inputs if you want to go that route

- advanced adjustment modes will completely cut the RGB channels independently so when you are trying to adjust color and hue, you don't have to use the little filters, i.e. for blue, it only shows blue and turns off Red and Green channels. No blue filter required

- will soon have 1080i inverse telcine deinterlacing

- street prices are very afforadable. Email AVS Dave Harper, AVS Jason, Home Theaer Doc, or Integrity Home Theater

- transcodes all inputs to DVI out. Only one cable will ever be required between it and PJ. Sell your long component cables. This also does away with problems from PC video level devices since it transcodes to video levels to DVI out.

- and more. But I think those are the big points.

It's the best thing I ever did for my HT. Better PQ was a fringe benefit. The flexibility and it's cure for the H7x's sorry syncing were the huge benefits.

HTH, Scott

So, Tom, you´re saying that the H78DC3 is better than the H77? Which one is brighter, I mean, in their real (and calibrated) performance?

I have a 106 inch gray screen, with 0.8 gain.

The H77 in econo on a 106" 1.0gain screen has 385lumens. The DC3 H79 same setup has 585lumens. The H78 had a couple of odd readings from testers saying the lumens were lower than the H79. Under 400 lumens was stated.

I guess eventually I'll get an H78 maybe from a user for grayscaling. I'm dying to run a tunup and lumens reading on it.

May I jump into this thread and ask a couple of questions? I have been an audio and videophile for many years, having said that, I know nothing about projectors. All the demontrations that I have seen of the cheaper models look washed out and flat, without any sense of depth, but I have always been attracted to the bigger screen size. I am sure that the projector in question here is of a much higher quality and therefore this critisism does not apply.

What kind of picture quality can I expect from a projector like the Optoma h-77 on a 100" screen compared to a 65" CRT HD projection tv, color,depth, and brightness wise?

Is there a forum where i can get plenty of information on projectors?

...Is there a forum where i can get plenty of information on projectors?

You're on it:)!!!!

Anywho, to answer your question.

You should have a pretty nice image, all things external considered like ambient light, wall color, etc.

The H77 has a very nice black level for a digital pj, so if setup properly and calibrated it (black level) shouldn't look too much different than a CRT HD-RPTV. But, the whites are so much whiter that it fools your eye into thinking the blacks are blacker so the perceived CR is higher. This is with real world material of course.

From my experience in almost every instance, any CRT smaller than an 8" tube is now inferior to the top of the line DLPs, all things considered.

I think the key, as with any display device, is proper setup and calibration.

Good Luck :)!!!

May I jump into this thread and ask a couple of questions? I have been an audio and videophile for many years, having said that, I know nothing about projectors. All the demontrations that I have seen of the cheaper models look washed out and flat, without any sense of depth, but I have always been attracted to the bigger screen size. I am sure that the projector in question here is of a much higher quality and therefore this critisism does not apply.

What kind of picture quality can I expect from a projector like the Optoma h-77 on a 100" screen compared to a 65" CRT HD projection tv, color,depth, and brightness wise?

Is there a forum where i can get plenty of information on projectors?

What's not to like :)

Here's a picture just tuning correctly with Avia. Nice pop to the image don't you think?

106" diagonal Mat White screen.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77glad1.jpg

You can buy one thru AVS from Dave Harper AVS sales force in the previous post. Dave hooked up a few happy buyer just this week.

Enjoy and there's really no going back once you're on board the mega screen road. :)

Nice picture guitarman. The thought of that huge picture is opening my hometheater apetite. What is the least distance needed in order to get on these projectors looking properly? My room is only 16' long.

Here the projector lens is 11.6ft back from a 106"diagonal image, you have plenty of room.

Anyone had an H77 come on but with no warm up screen an only a dim light coming from the back of the pj. Did it once before but worked for a week after this. Now it only comes on with the dim light and nothing else happens. Will call optoma tomorrow but thought someone might have experienced this before.

106" diagonal Mat White screen.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77glad1.jpg


Hey Tom,

What projector and which DVD player were you running with this picture? If its the H78 and the Panny S97, I want your settings for both sources because that looks great.

H77, Panasonic XP30, Dalite Mat White screen.

Settings are a basic tune with Avia.


Jayray, first reseat the bulb a couple of times to make sure the connections clean.

I just ordered an H77 but am wondering how it will work with my two sources.

Does the scaler in the HD Tivo do a good enough job? I get the local Hi-Def with an antenna plugged into the HD Tivo.

I have an older Panasonic progressive scan 480P DVD player and I'm thinking I should get something that does 720P?

I am using the screen that came with my InFocus 4800. I will be projecting a 76" diagonal image from ten feet away and I sit ten feet away. The projector will be ceiling mounted. If anyone has experience with this screen, will I need to use "econo" mode? Should I get a better screen? The room is dark at night but a shaded window lets in a very small amount of ambient light during the day.

Needless to say, I'm excited to see how the H77 does compared to my InFocus 4800.

Thanks!

I finally got my 3rd H77 up and running and I still seem to have little nit-picky problems... The picture looks great and there is no problem with the lamp or power source but I have a alignment problem...

Why would there be a blueish/purplish glow on the left side of the screen from top to bottom? Even without a source hooked up, you can see it. I've taken the bulb out and reinsert it but it still seems to be there. Is there a setting or a button that will clear this up. It looks like the left edge of the screen is concaved (not keystoned) in a little with a blue lightsaber. I really noticed it during day shots and it almost seems like the lens isn't lined up something...

Has anyone ever had this problem or is there an adjustment?
http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/252/252396/folders/189466/1675455IMG2383.JPG

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/252/252396/folders/189466/1675457IMG2388.JPG

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/252/252396/folders/189466/1675458IMG2389.JPG

Regarding pics: I didn't want to take the projector back down to the basement so I just laid it on the floor and shot it on the wall.

I just ordered the Oppo DVD player to go with the H77 as recommended in other posts. I have to use the Oppo's DVI out in order to get the upconversion to 720P which means I either need to buy an HDMI switcher or use the component out on the HD Tivo I already own.

Would there really be a noticeable difference if I used the HD Tivo component out to the H77 rather than the HDMI?

If so, could anyone recommend a Receiver that does HDMI switching for $1K or less? Is there another solution?

Thanks!

Is there another solution? Lumagen HDP Scaler has 2 DVI in, (and other inputs) and one DVI out. Works well with the H7X line.

Lumagen HDP Scaler has 2 DVI in, (and other inputs) and one DVI out. Works well with the H7X line.

I've got a $200 receiver right now paired with $2,000 dollar speakers so I was thinking of fixing that issue at the same time as I fixed the HDMI switcher issue. Dialog is hard to hear so I thought a newer receiver that also "auto-tuned" the frequencies could help me out?

I am in a buying frenzy so I will review the other related forums for answers.

My projector just locked up while I was trying to calibrate it using the Avia dvd. I didn't even make it to the first video calibration and the image is frozen on the screen. I tried going to the dvd menu, stopping it, powered the dvd player down, and even disconnected the DVI plug from the projector, but still the still image remains. I attempted to switch the source on the pj to component, but nothing happens...none of the remote buttons or buttons on the pj do anything (including the lighted power button).

I have no more than 15 hours on the unit. I didn't find much after a quick forum search, so I guess I will switch it off manually (using the main power switch on the unit). I know this is bad to do, but I am out of options for the time being. Anyone have any ideas??

Thanks!

cgull,

I've hard switched it off once. It may shorten bulb life but I doubt it's any big deal.

Scott

Most of what I've read says that it doesn't hurt (post #968 by guitarman for example), but my mind sometimes buys into all the hype made about it.

I see only one other reference to the image freezing (post #966), but my problem did not happen while trying to synch on a signal on startup. I was watching another DVD (LOST) for about 1.5 hours, and then switched over to the AVIA DVD. As I said before, it locked the image on the first test...I was fast-forwarding, and the screen froze with the image, including the 'fastforwardx64' text.

I will run it again tomorrow and see what happens...

I finally got my 3rd H77 up and running and I still seem to have little nit-picky problems... The picture looks great and there is no problem with the lamp or power source but I have a alignment problem...

Do you notice that blue glow on the focus cross hairs as well? If so, then I think that you lens may be out of alignment. I had a similar problem on my 2nd H77 and had to return it. You can also try the reset in the service menu and see if that helps at all. When I had this probem, I called Optoma and the tech told me that it was due to the lens being out of alignment. There was no fix to it and the tech told me to return it for a new unit.

so I guess I will switch it off manually (using the main power switch on the unit). re Lockup: My opinion on it is that if it does it again, turn it off, then right back on. I'd want those fans back running ASAP so the bulb can properly cool.

re Lockup: My opinion on it is that if it does it again, turn it off, then right back on. I'd want those fans back running ASAP so the bulb can properly cool.

I thought I heard this is really bad for the bulb to turn it right back on after a shutdown, be it soft or hard...

Might be. Don't know what's worse, the restrike, or the failure to cool off.

The Infocus guy Bob Williams brought up the point about hard power downs. He said it's good to do this to make the bulb last longer. But you must wait for full bulb cooling before you re-strike. Full bulb cool down could be 1hr, some say 1/2hr.

Baker, sri buddy that blue line is an optics problem for sure. I saw something like that with my HT1000. Optics chamber /DMD trouble I think is what they said.

People interested in the upgrade. Lastest news is the Optoma Guys missed my appointment on Monday. Too tired after a week at Cedia. I wanted to go on my day off Mondays but I'll take any day off now so I can hurry this up. Wing said he wanted to double check Taiwan sent in the internal talking device yesterday.
Hang in there

Thanks for the update guitarman. I don't mind the delay. The good thing is they're still going to do it. :)

Baker, sri buddy that blue line is an optics problem for sure. I saw something like that with my HT1000. Optics chamber /DMD trouble I think is what they said.

I've forwarded the pictures to PP and your statement but I may be 3 and out with the H77 :( It may be time to take a look at something else...

Yeah it looks like the forces are against you on the H77. You did want to try the HS51 from them, let us know what the differences are, how they compare? Unless you still try to get a clean H77.

I have had the H77 freeze on one occasion and stop on a power outage. Both times the bulb had to cool passively. Rarely do bulbs go on cool down but generally go on warm up. However, having said that I am now hooked up to a UPS with surge protection, not a 10$ unit.
Had mine in to tech yesterday due to no warm up , and no picture but a dim light and fan were on. Tech said today it might have been the power supply to the bulb. Maybe the lightning power outage did something to this power supply. I didn't have the surge/UPS at that time.

Got H77 back and they said they replaced the DMD board. What does this do what symtoms would one get if it wasn't working properly? Scared to plug it in for fear it won't work again. Electronics anxiety!!!!!!!!!!!

The board that talks to the DMD, this is the board I'll be applying the upgrade to. There must be electronics in it that trigger the bulb functioning also.

In the best of all worlds you might expect they would apply the fix to the DMD boards they use to replace the old ones. Wishful thinking :)

Fired up the pj and all was well. All settings were left as I had given them and fingers are now crossed that it will work given it is to be ISF calibrated in two weeks.

Does the H78 have any of the issues the H77 has? The H78 price is dropping while the H77 price is not, and it might make sense to just go for that if all the issues are resolved from the H77. Any thoughts?

Gary

If it was me, I'd DEFINITELY go with the H78DC3 over the H77. The DC3 chip is worth the upgrade in my book. Especially in the H77 considering how bad the panning was and some other issues.

Are there any panning issues with the h78dc3 ?

Tom and HTAddict,

I´ve gotta a question: you said that it would be better if I chose a 720p over my 576p Optoma H57. So, which one should I choose between these two: the Sanyo Z3 or the Optoma H57?

Thank you!

Another question:

The H57 or the Sharp XV-2000?

Drefus............

Are you susceptible to RBE?

What type of a room are you dealing with?

What features are most important to you?

You need to decide which features are most important to you personally.

Without knowing what you have and what you are trying to accomplish, with what type of restrictions to budget and sensitivity... all anyone can do is throw out their personal opinion. Very few of us have actually had the opportunity to review all of these potential projectors personally.

First what is your environment?

What is your budget?

Do you already have a screen?

If so, what type and size?

Are you affected by RBE?

What sources are you going to be using?

No one projector is the perfect solution to every person... which one is "better" than another depends very heavily on the answers to the questions above.

Personally I spent 8 months reading here on AVS, looked at projectors for 3 days straight at CES, attended a "shootout" of numerous projectors and screens, and then went and viewed several representative examples at homes of other kind and generous folks here on AVS, BEFORE I purchased my first projector (and yes I am just a teensy bit anal).

Anyway.... perhaps this will get you pointed in the right direction.

HiHoStevo,

I´ve got a light controlled environment, so that wouldn´t be an issue. And I´m not susceptible to RBE.

I have a 0.8 gray screen (I´m thinking of getting a 1.1) and I want a high contrast image, with good definition --> the best possible. Well, my actual projector is a H57 and I have the opportunity to get a Sanyo Z3. That´s why I´m asking. Is it worthy?

Personaly, I´ve never really liked LCDs... It sounds like... a "cold", "flat" image... non vivid... On the other hand, it´s got higher resolution, although I still see those tinny squares (Screen door effect).

So, I´m confused. What should I do?

Hi,

I'm looking into a PJ vs. a plasma at the moment. One of my concerns is that the viewing area has a side wall with a HUGE floor to ceiling window, so LOTS of light comes in, even at night due to streetlights. Does this totally wreck my dream of a HD 100+ inch screen?

I guess I can buy black-out blinds for the window, but if I have to lower the blinds every time I watch TV or a movie, it kinda defeats the purpose of having a nice big window in my apartment. =)

Dreyfus........

My "personal opinion" is that I prefer DLP to LCD... at least it has been that way with all of the projectors I have seen. However, as always there are newer and better projectors coming out all the time.

I have no experience with the H57 (I think it is an Optoma with the 576p chip), but I would not think it would be a good match for a .8 gain screen.... once again IMHO. As I mentioned a nice AVS member named Mystery has one and really likes it. (Optoma Canaca swapped him out of an H31 that he was having problems with)

I just helped my son-in-law set up a Z3 yesterday. He is using a 92" High Power screen with a ceiling mounted Z3. The ceiling mount brings down the gain to I believe about 1.3 - 1.5... Tom had some numbers on that at one time, so you could probably do a search and find them. I was impressed that the image looked "very good." His seating position is approx. 12' away from the screen and I had to "really look" to detect any screen door. However, I do not think the image has as much "pop" as my BenQ 8700... although my BenQ has lost quite a bit of it's pop now that the bulb has over 1500 hours on it.

If you are trying to compare the Optoma H77 against the Z3...... I think the Optoma wins every time. Against the Sharp 2k, I would still take the Optoma H77...., but I normally consider how much "bang for the buck" I get with a given combination.

My personal opinion is that none of the projectors you have mentioned make a good match for a .8 gain screen. At the shootout I went to, no one preferred the grey screens over the white "gain" screens. The two favorites were the Vutec SilverStar (silver not grey) and the Stewart Studiotek 130.

LCD's continue to improve and I am sure the reviewers will be telling us how close the new Z4, HS-60, and the like are to the current crop of DLP's... in addition we have the after effects Sony bombshell to watch....... should be great fun!!!

Are there any panning issues with the h78dc3 ?

No. it's now identical to the H79 in this regard. The DC3 chip and updated FW fixed that issue.

Hello,

I have a H78 (european version) and I found my picture so dark... It's connected via HDMI-DVI cable to a Onkyo SP1000, even after a resync, the picture look so dark. Settings are origin on H78 and SP1000 and a 'reset' was done on the PJ and SP1000. (Screen Projecta Procinema HighContrast gain 0.9)
Have someone an idea ?

Thanks in advance and sorry for my english. :o

Is it dark on all inputs or just the DVI?

How big is the screen?

Have you used a test disk to set the black and white levels?

Gary.

This may sound dumb, but did you remove the tinted len cap?
The reason I ask is, I once did it.

Valid question, I've left the cap on by mistake also :rolleyes:

Valid question, I've left the cap on by mistake also :rolleyes:

Have you posted this in the "Tweaks" forum.

"This is one of the best picture improvements I've made. Remove the lens cap"

Just givin' ya crap!!! :)

Scott

Is it dark on all inputs or just the DVI?

How big is the screen?

Have you used a test disk to set the black and white levels?

Gary.


Hi,

Yes, on all inputs.
Screen is 2 meters basis

Not yet calibration done.

Moreover, I found yesterday that the control panel on the PJ doesn't responding.

The Lens caps is well removed... I did once too ! :D

If it was me, I'd DEFINITELY go with the H78DC3 over the H77. The DC3 chip is worth the upgrade in my book. Especially in the H77 considering how bad the panning was and some other issues.

What other issues have been fixed when moving from the H77 to the H78? Is it worth the $700 diff in price?

Gary

Which screen would be better for an Optoma H7x: a Matte White 1.0 or a gray 1.1?

Dreyfuss,

In a light controlled room matt white will be fine in eco mode up to around 7ft wide. After that a 1.2 or 1.3 gain might be better to take into account the lamp aging if you want to keep the image at around cinema levels of reflectance.

If you have ambient light in the room then a grey screen would be better.

Gary.

What other issues have been fixed when moving from the H77 to the H78? Is it worth the $700 diff in price?

Gary

Gary,

The mirrors are faster, the dimples are smaller, the fill factor is higher and best of all, the contrast is improved. Well worth $700 in my book:)!!! Plus, it's a newer machine and technology so resale will be higher in the future. Oh yeah, I also couldn't get two different H77s to sync up with two different Pioneer DV-59avi DVD players through HDMI-DVI.

Sorry, but with all the fuss about the H77 and it's issues (at least for me), it seems well worth it.

I called Optoma today to see if unhappy H77 owners could upgrade to a H78dc3 light engine.

Names removed to protect the "innocent" ;)

The response was "yes, if the unit is less than 30 days old"

Here is a quote:


You can upgrade t the EPH78, but it will cost you $3000.00. If you would like
to upgrade, please complete the attached RMA credit card form, and fax it to my
attention at the fax number below with a copy of your receipt or invoice showing
the date of purchase. I will then forward a RMA number. Write the RMA number
on the outside of the box and ship
your unit. When we receive your unit, we will then ship the new EPH78"

Optoma Technology, Inc.
715 Sycamore Drive
Milpitas, CA 95035

Fx:
E-mail: @Optoma.com
Technical Support/Customer Service



Are you kidding me? If you took this deal, that would mean you spent 5k for a H78

I was surprised when they said there was an upgrade in place last night, but today I got this price structure and laughed, and laughed.

What does it say, when they think a 2 week old H77 depreciates 66%....?

I thought they might do a light engine for say 700-900 or so.....ala Dwin that is doing HD2 swaps for 1600.00 or so...

3K.....


TJ

They go by retail vs retail I think.

Without getting into "street" pricing... let's just say the current retail price on the high sides of both put them 1000 dollars different, which is not true.

Then lets say we go by MSRP from a Avscience sponsor

h77= 8999.00
H78=3999.00

It is weird, maybe it is a Hand Picked Upgrade ;) All kidding aside, I will still buy one once the market settles and some hard facts emerge on the Hc3000...

Such a tough time to make a decision...

TJ

I just received my H77 from Projector People. I set it on the counter and hooked the HD Tivo component cables to the projector. When I view the image on the wall I can see that there is a green vertical line that takes up the 9 right most pixels. I'm going to try the DVI input next. Any ideas why there is a vertical green line?

Thanks

Hooked up the Oppo using DVI cable and there is only a faint discolored line around all sides of the image. Seems like a good sign. Search hasn't been working on this site so I am having a hard time finding any pre-existing answers.

Sounds like the "phase" is off in the projector. This moves the image left and right within the video "raster". Try moving the image with the phase control and report back.

P.S. - You should have bought from me at AVS and you wouldn't have had this problem, hehehe;):D!!!

I was able to search the thread and see someone had a problem with a blue line. I followed the directions and went into the service menu to reset to factory defaults. Now the green line is gone. There is still a discoloration with the DVI input of about one pixel width on the top and right hand side. I'll mess with the phase as Dave Harper suggested and see what happens. I'm trying to calm down at this point, I really want this to work!

One thing I did notice is the focus cross hairs have a green tint on top and a purple tint on the bottom edge of each white pixel.

That's because it's a chromatic abberation from the lens and/or lightpath. The green is because the green is off a little too high and purple is a mixture of the blue and red because the green is too high. You probably can't see it from seating distances though, can you?

I followed the directions and went into the service menu to reset to factory defaults. Now the green line is gone.
I'm not thinking clearly. Resetting to factory defaults changed from "Native" to "16:9" and the green bar is back. Maybe this is a problem with DirecTV/HDTivo? I'm trying to find the "phase" setting to see if I can shift the image to the right and get rid of the green bar.

Hope it is ok to spew a few messages into this thread. Maybe others will encounter the same issues on setup.

That's because it's a chromatic abberation from the lens and/or lightpath. The green is because the green is off a little too high and purple is a mixture of the blue and red because the green is too high. You probably can't see it from seating distances though, can you?
I have to be within four feet to see the red and purple artifacts. Is this an acceptable condition?

I have to be honest and say the image doesn't have as much "pop" as my InFocus 4800 (using the same screen).

I want to make sure there aren't any major problems before I ceiling mount the PJ and run Avia. After it is on the ceiling and calibrated I'm hoping the "pop" comes back. Last night while I was watching "Lost" on the 4800 I was thinking the image was already so good "why am I upgrading?". I couldn't handle the SDE and that is definitely gone with the H77!

When I go into the HD Tivo menus the green bar goes away. I don't think this has anything to do with the H77. I'm mounting this thing on the ceiling and using Avia assuming the green/purple artifacts on the crosshairs aren't red flagged by Dave H.

Thanks!

I have to be within four feet to see the red and purple artifacts. Is this an acceptable condition?


That should be OK, only you can decide whether it bothers you or not. You can try moving the pj backward and forward, preferable backward, to use as much of the center of the lens as possible since this is where the lens is at it's best with the least amount of outer edge distortion. You will have to change the zoom too of course to match the screen size, and focus. The more zoomed out, the better, that's why I say move it back preferrably. This way it uses a smaller footprint on the lens as well and will alleviate some of these chromatic misaligned color errors.

After your Avia calibration it should have some POP to it.

When I go into the HD Tivo menus the green bar goes away. I don't think this has anything to do with the H77. I'm mounting this thing on the ceiling and using Avia assuming the green/purple artifacts on the crosshairs aren't red flagged by Dave H.

Thanks!

No, it doesn't sound like the H77 is the culprit. It sounds like I said, the phase (timings) of the video image is off since the box's menu appears OK. It could be from the source program, have you tried changing channels?

That should be OK, only you can decide whether it bothers you or not. You can try moving the pj backward and forward, preferable backward, to use as much of the center of the lens as possible since this is where the lens is at it's best with the least amount of outer edge distortion.
The farthest I can get the projector from the screen is ten feet so I have to zoom quite a bit to get a good size image. Is this misalignment pretty normal?

Optical Problem Picture (http://www.gaviglio.net/h77%20001.jpg)

Thanks

Two questions.

1. What is the blank screen button on the top right for?
2. Has anyone noted an improvement in the panning by adjusting the Colour wheel index in the service menu?

1. Never tried it.

2. Yes, by pausing an image that exhibited posterisation (chap 15 IIRC of U571 in my case), I was able to eliminate the effect.

The H77 DMD firmware upgrade eliminated it for those that still had it even after adjusting the CWI, along with a panning artefact that was sometimes visible.

Gary.

Anyone using this projector for the 2.35 constant height setup? Prismasonic said it does the needed vertical streth, but I just wanted to make sure with the current owners before I purchased it for this purpose. Thanks in advance! (the only reason I'm evening asking again is b/c someone from optoma e-mailed me saying that th 77, 78, and 79 did NOT do it and that the 27, 30, and 31 did)...which makes NO sense, so I don't really believe it, just getting peace of mind ya know?

RSY

Two questions.

1. What is the blank screen button on the top right for?
2. Has anyone noted an improvement in the panning by adjusting the Colour wheel index in the service menu?


jayray,

1. That button does just what it says, it blanks the screen while keeping the pj on. A good way to kind of put it in standby if you are just leaving for a little while and want to return. Think of it as a "Video Mute".

2. The only thing I noticed when I played with the color wheel index on my old H77 was that it helped the banding some, but not the panning artifacts. Then again, I bailed on the H77 fairly early before they may have fixed it. I think I got up to FW C16 and it wasn't fixed yet.

Anyone using this projector for the 2.35 constant height setup? Prismasonic said it does the needed vertical streth, but I just wanted to make sure with the current owners before I purchased it for this purpose. Thanks in advance! (the only reason I'm evening asking again is b/c someone from optoma e-mailed me saying that th 77, 78, and 79 did NOT do it and that the 27, 30, and 31 did)...which makes NO sense, so I don't really believe it, just getting peace of mind ya know?

RSY

The H77, H78, H79 will stretch up an image for 2.35 setup by using the Letterbox aspect. Which is available for all signals, HDTV, DVI everything.

Optoma has had a handle on aspect features early on when I bought my first H30. Wing is the aspect Engineer for Optoma, nice job having aspect control over HDTV or any signal.

Anyone using this projector for the 2.35 constant height setup? Prismasonic said it does the needed vertical streth, but I just wanted to make sure with the current owners before I purchased it for this purpose. Thanks in advance! (the only reason I'm evening asking again is b/c someone from optoma e-mailed me saying that th 77, 78, and 79 did NOT do it and that the 27, 30, and 31 did)...which makes NO sense, so I don't really believe it, just getting peace of mind ya know?

RSY
I am using my H79 (same PJ for this question) with the Panamorph 752 lens. The H79 does the anamorphic stretch perfectly. It will take a 2.35 image and stretch it vertically to fill the entire 16:9 panel which is what you must have for an anamorphic lens.

Optoma 1st line support and marketing has been reported several times here for giving mis-information about their own stuff. Fortunately, if that's what they told you, they are wrong inthis case.

Allow me to add that with my AV-RS232, my aspect selection is done with a single button on my programable remote (discrete aspect buttons). Now if I can just get around to automating that lens movement :) ....

Cheers, Scott

... Now if I can just get around to automating that lens movement :) ....

Cheers, Scott

Come on, you need a little exercise getting up and moving that panamorph out of the way:rolleyes:

Come on, you need a little exercise getting up and moving that panamorph out of the way:rolleyes:How did you know!!;) I need a lot of excercise. Somehow having a HT is eating into my excercise time. Maybe I can strap some weights to that lens :D.

Thanks guys. I'm actually using a 2.35:1 aspect screen and stretching using a Primsasonic horizontal stretch to get the original aspect. I am familiar with the way panamorph strecthes to fill the 16:9 screen, but I'm using it to stretch to fill the whole screen. Thanks for the info about their customer support. I'll let everyone know how it goes when I get everything up and running. (It will be 96" wide cinemascope, 73" wide HDTV, and 55" wide 4:3 with a constant height of 41") Thanks all!

Thanks guys. I'm actually using a 2.35:1 aspect screen and stretching using a Primsasonic horizontal stretch to get the original aspect. I am familiar with the way panamorph strecthes to fill the 16:9 screen, but I'm using it to stretch to fill the whole screen. Thanks for the info about their customer support. I'll let everyone know how it goes when I get everything up and running. (It will be 96" wide cinemascope, 73" wide HDTV, and 55" wide 4:3 with a constant height of 41") Thanks all!Hugh? The Panamorph compresses, dosent' stretch. It's a "vertical compression" lens. The scaler (PJ in this case) does the stretching. The Panamorph compresses it back. It's a "constant width" setup.

Your particular Prismsonic lens as you noted stretches, a "horizontal stretch" lens. So the PJ stretches the 2.35 image to fil the entire panel, then you stretch the output to fill the screen.

In both cases, the PJ stretches the image to fit the whole panel.

Anyway, main thing is the PJ does what you want for sure. My H79 whacks off a few pixels at the top, but it's not too bad. I'd expect identical behavior from the other H7x's. But I'm using a Lumagen now so that's just another minor anomaly that box cured.

One thing I did notice is the focus cross hairs have a green tint on top and a purple tint on the bottom edge of each white pixel.

Gregg, the previous H77 that I owned had this problem too. I called Optoma and the tech told me that it was a problem with the alignment of the lens, and none of the user controls would correct it. The tech had me return the projector and they gave me a new one. I did notice that using the lens shift in either direction made the problem worse.

Although there is a thread for video processing, I thought I would ask here about video processors like the Lumagen series. Anyone using this and what benefits do you see?
thanks,
John