just a quick question. How many picture settings can you store in the H77 to accomodate different viewing conditions?

3?

Each different signal you throw at it has three area's where you can save different settings. Cinema/Norma/Vivid.

Quite allot if you add up, HDTV, Progressive, Interlaced, plus you can have different RGB-contrast/brightness settings remembered for each signal.

And Steve, I'm pretty happy with the projectors ability to make just a cable signal look very good. Excellent scaler here. Even though cable is low res the picture looks clear and smooth. I'm watching a Baseball game right now which is amazingly free from artifacts.

Tom, three settings for each source or input? the reason for the question is because besides the dvi I am switching all my video sources thru my Rotel RSP1098, so everything it up converted to component and then only one component cable to the projector.

For each signal type. I run interlaced cable, HDTV, and progressive DVD all through the one component input on the H77. The PJ recognizes each signal and will allow the three different setup adjustments for each. I also have the Bravo on the DVI input which has it's own memory..

I guess it's overkill having one Faroujda chipped player and the Bravo going. I have to admit after running the tests re deinterlacing of the Pany XP30, that the Secrets guys have a point when they said "as clean as DVI is they're not willing to give up the deinterlacing qualities of the best Faroudja based DVD players.

thanks,

wow that is quite a number of settings....

so the I guess the new Denon 1910 maybe good then. It uses Faroudja deinterlacer and has DVI out... just waiting for that DVD player.

Originally posted by guitarman
For each signal type. I run interlaced cable, HDTV, and progressive DVD all through the one component input on the H77.


So you are not using the projector's DVI input? Or did I misunderstand. Wasn't it the DVI-input the the projectorcentral guy claimed was dim? Excuse me if I'm being dim :eek: but I'm trying to get a handle on all of this.

Cheers,
Scott

I use the DVI for when using the Bravo D1, by the way the DVI input from the bravo looks brighter than the progressive scan component input. :)

WooHoo 8 hours logged on the H77 and counting :)

I have not seen one rainbow yet and the picture impresses me everytime I turn it on, the 57" widescreen HDTV seems like a 13" TV now :)

Steve

Steve, it's very much like a CRT image.
keep enjoying, you got a winner. :)

After thought: I keep talking about the blacks and CRT but forget to mention the color quality. These are some of the best colors on a DLP I've seen to date.
Enjoy it Steve

Originally posted by guitarman
I use the DVI for when using the Bravo D1, by the way the DVI input from the bravo looks brighter than the progressive scan component input. :)

This seems one of the outstanding issues (other is pal problems are really fixed). Any idea how the review on projectorcentral came to a different conclusion ?. Could you do a guess on the output
on the given inputs/modes. What i mean it it seems to do 900 ansi in bright mode, x less in normal mode, x less over dvi.

I know this is asking for much without any tools but it would really help some of us making up our minds in getting a H77.

My current idea is to add a sdi to a denon 2900, iScanHD and then a H77. This would replace a HD1 based ls110 from infocus (1000ansi).

Daniel.

Hi together,

Last week I had some hours with the Mitsubishi HC2000, which is the same model.

The unit i had was the final Euro-Version. The PAL-Problems seem all to be solved. The machine even has a working PAL-Film-Mode. It is not perfect (sometimes it switches to videomode) but it is doing a good job with many movies.

The out of the box calibration was not really perfect. But the machine is pretty easy to calibrate. After D65 calibration it makes a contrast of 1900:1 .

When you raise the gains to the max, the machine is actually able to output 3450:1 which is really good. But for D65 colors you have to tune it. After one or two hours of projector-tuning I got 3400:1 with perfect colors, no clipping and a good gamma. This tuning however included the matching color-filter.

Overall a good machine but it does have some issues with False Contour and Banding.

I will get a review sample soon and will make a very detailed review of it..

Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de

Originally posted by danielo
This seems one of the outstanding issues (other is pal problems are really fixed). Any idea how the review on projectorcentral came to a different conclusion ?. Could you do a guess on the output
on the given inputs/modes. What i mean it it seems to do 900 ansi in bright mode, x less in normal mode, x less over dvi.

I know this is asking for much without any tools but it would really help some of us making up our minds in getting a H77.

My current idea is to add a sdi to a denon 2900, iScanHD and then a H77. This would replace a HD1 based ls110 from infocus (1000ansi).

Daniel.


This will be a huge step up from the LS110. Different review on Projector Central. You know I don't know how hurried they are when the check out many PJ's at once. Funny but it could very well be the they left the lens cap on when looking at it. :) You can do that you know, it even mentions this in the manual. Infact by error when I first viewed the H77 the demonstrator after a while realized the lens cap was on. No joke :)

Ekkehart, thx for the info. Colors look very good to me on the H77. I also have an H30 and the H77 is just the grandaddy in color quality over what I thought was excellent color with the H30. The black level is really where this new machine excels. Which filter did you use on the Mits?

tom,

do you think there is any chance that optoma will implement a 4x color wheel speed option for H77? read in one of the HC2000 review that the 4x wheel speed helps to improve color banding.

http://www.progressive-av.com/projectors/mitsubishi_hc2000_review.htm

do you think there is any chance that optoma will implement a 4x color wheel speed option for H77? read in one of the HC2000 review that the 4x wheel speed helps to improve color banding.


I especially checked the influence of the 4x / 5x speed on banding, and it had some influence, but NO improvement.

By the way, the speed option is hidden in a special menu with the mitsubishi.


Regards,
Ekkehart

Tom- given that Ekkehart has raised the issue of banding, what's your take on this?

I'm looking forward to Ekkehart's review.

In the U.K. at the moment there appears to be about one machine being punted around as a demo unit. 1st or 2nd week of September remains the best estimate for delivery of limited stock to authorised agents.

me too. I am also looking forward to his review. wonder will it be english.... I remember his TX100 review was in some foreign language (german?) Even then it was extremely useful (whatever infomation I could gather using babelfish)

Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere, I did a search on the H77 and did not get any hits.

The H77 manual states that the DVI connector is DVI-I. Does this type of connection support DVI/HDCP on the H77? My HDTV satellite box (DirecTV Samsung SIR-TS360) has a DVI-D connection and I'm confused, even after looking at the various DVI cable types at the ramelectr**** web site.

Thanks for setting me straight. My home theater starts framing today and I need to start ordering cables.

-Robert

Originally posted by Cine4Home
I especially checked the influence of the 4x / 5x speed on banding, and it had some influence, but NO improvement.

By the way, the speed option is hidden in a special menu with the mitsubishi.


Regards,
Ekkehart

Special menu? Do you mean a service menu keyed in on the projector only?

I have a member asking if he can go with a 120"wide screen for the H77. I'm telling him to get a higher gain screen. Like a Studio Tech or maybe Ultramatt. I'm not too familar with Stewart screens. Any input would be great. In general though it's not too great and idea to get such large screens with the few projectors designed for deep blacks and contrast like the Marantz, Seleco, Sharp, H77 etc

I don't want to give him bad advice. What do you think the limit size is for these type projectors?

well Tom, the screen I use and my buddy with the action one MkII And the H77 is 108" greyline with 0,8 gain And it looks wonderful ,so a 120" 1gain white should not be a problem at all

The Stewart's are 1.3 and 1.5 gains. I'm guessing they would work great. Light output looks high to me on the 1. gain 106" diagonal I use also.

Hey Tom when mounting the projector(ceiling), is it better to go close and zoom out or farther and zoom in??

I am actually on schedule to finish the HT in 6 weeks not 8 :)

Steve

Optoma here are claiming a very big advantage over the Mitsub. HC2000, by having the stronger light output.
Will be interesting to see the real world differences, when some more tests are done?

Tonight I ran a couple of different DIY screens with some HD Olympics on my D* STB via DVI. All screens where about 4' x 4' because it's all I had to work with when it came to drywall.. I decided to try Behr Pure White, Glidden Misty Evening, and Goo Digital Grey Lite.

The Behr looked pretty good, bring out the colors very nicely while maybe crushing the whites just a tad. The Misty Evening took care of the whites and darks a little better but sort of gave off a blue tint that I didn't find too appealing, but I'm sure if I mixed it with some fancy things they talk about around here it would take care of it.

The Goo had the best of both worlds as far as I'm concerned. The blacks where fantastic and the whites were not as "loud" as before and everything looked like it was a little more in focus than the other two paints, which I assume is the reflective goodness they put in the paint. This was proved again once I watched a little bit of Over Ireland in HD. I was able to catch a little of ABC's sitcoms in native 720 and they looked fantastic with the goo. Just wish I would have done it yesterday to see Monday Night Football.

So I'm going to be painting my wall with the Goo and seeing how that goes. It's only going to be 87" diag so anything I "lose" from using a slight gray screen will be made up for by the extra light for the throw.

I was able to see a little overscan with the ABC channel and the D* channels. But all I had to do was change the setting to 16x9 other than Native in the menu. It didn't seem to change the picture at all, just zoom it a VERY little and took away any bars or junk on the border of the picture.

Also I'm using an inexpensive 6 foot DVI cable from PCCABLES.COM. I can't believe how much people are spending for these cables and I find these for a fraction of the price and they work great with my STB and my PC to the H77. Now I just have to order a 15 foot one for the final install.

Hey guys ive been following the h77 reviews and seeing if I should pull the trigger on this, heres my situation, currently I have a sharp 12k which has a great picture but we are potentially moving soon and I dont think that that the longer throw distance will work judging from some of the living spaces that we are looking at however I do not want to trade convenience for picture quality so what im asking here is has anyone seen both the sharp 12k and the h77 and how do they compare? This is a critical time for me as I already have a potential buyer for my machine so I need to make a decision another unit, I was also looking at the 7205 but I have heard that I should stay clear of that unit because although its brighter it doesnt approach the picture or build quality of the sharp 12k, any help would be appreciated, also would like to know if the remote has a pretty wide range, the sharp has an excellent range and can be bounced off of the screen,,, thanks again

funlvr1965:

[was re: Optoma H77 Review & Screenshots]

I'm in a similar boat in that I have these 3 you mentioned on my 3-long short list of what to buy; 12000, H77, and 7205. I'm in a "don't know where I'm putting it mode" still, so my choice is tougher. It's either in a total control room or in the family room. Total control has it's obvious advantages. In the family room, I can control the light but there will be times when the kids want to play (in the light or some light) but have shrek or the Disney channel going in the background. Or wife and friends may want to visit/entertain and not want to do it in the dark. From my personal perspective one isolated closed room with one chair is plenty but wiafe doesn't like that plan <smile>. As a father with teens on the way I have the logistical concerns of a totally dark, isolated, closed room with a preferable TV in the house... that is, maybe I need a sign, "no boyfriends/girlfriend allowed in HT room" <grin>. The family room makes this less of an issue.

John in CO at http://www.IntegrityHomeTheater.com has seen them together (the projectors that is), as has Shane in NC at http://www.hometheaterdoc.com. Both guys were a pleasue to speak to, very patient and helpful, and have similar and only slightly different opinions on these units. Neither ahd any poo-pooing to do on any other brands. I would recommend you speak to one or both for a more comprehensive opinion, both of which I respect a good deal after our conversations. And I belive both are price competitive as well. What I got out of their collective inputs, but mind you this is my interpretation of their input, not their opinions, per se:

For a controlled (dark) room:
1. Sharp is very good in it's high contrast mode. Shane say's it's dim compared ot the H77. John thinks with total control a Studiotek 130 would be a good match because he also agrees it's not incredibly bright (in high contrast mode), but has a great pic and he likes the projector. Screen size limt of 92-100 inches for best performance I believe. It has the brightness adjustability so you can turn it up if wanted so that's comething to consider. Shane likes it but thinks it's pricey and likes the H77 better, didn't really seem to care for the Sharp (as compared to his preferred H77 in my situation). Since you have the sharp, I'd love to hear any input from you in this respect.

2. H77 could be a comprimise between the Infocus 7205 and the sharp on brightness. Could work with come ambient light but also not really bright and still more suited to a controlled (dark) room and a 100" screen as a good size. I believe both guys thought as for screens the firehawk would be OK in some light and the ST130 in total control room. Shane leaned toward the firehawk. Shane loves this unit, thinks the colors, etc. are great when it's adjusted/calibrated. John thinks it's a great value and a good middle of the road (light conditions wise) projector. Shane felt if blacks were more important, then the firehawk, if more pure white, then the studiotek130, John thought the Dalite Hicontract cinevision (very light gray) might be a good match for this proj when some ambient light would be around, or depending on light conditions. Not as dark as firehawk, but better at low ambient rejection than ST130.

3. 7205. Both guys felt this was a bright projector. If I wanted really bright pics with ambient light it woudl be a good choice. Shane felt this one needed a big screen (135") with a 110" smallest. John also agreed this was good for a 110+ screen and he has one himself. John preferred the Firehawk with his 7205. I got the impression that if I was ever gonna watch the lights up much this would be the one to get if I can have the size. If wife wants bright pic, again this one good. I believe both guys felt this wouldn't give the black levels of the H77 in a controlled room. And with a big screen I need to increase viewing distance appropriately. I don't know how this one would look in the dark. Anyone? Neither guy gave any negative input on it as far as quality goes.

If you speak to them, and/or if either of you are "listening", I welcome further input on what I surmized, clarifications, corrections, etc.

Cheers,
Scott

Originally posted by SteveFred
Hey Tom when mounting the projector(ceiling), is it better to go close and zoom out or farther and zoom in??

I am actually on schedule to finish the HT in 6 weeks not 8 :)

Steve

General consensus is anywhere but the far extremes will be best. My setup 14' back from a 106" diag screen puts me in the center zoom area. Man this thing does have a wide setup range, covers long and short.

Where can I get the throw ratio? I read somewhere that the Optoma website or projector central is not accurate. If I have a 80" wide screen (92" diagonal) What would be the minimum and maximum distance of the H77 to fill my screen?

Bruno

Originally posted by bgosselin
Where can I get the throw ratio? I read somewhere that the Optoma website or projector central is not accurate. If I have a 80" wide screen (92" diagonal) What would be the minimum and maximum distance of the H77 to fill my screen?

Bruno

The web site actually lets you select the exact model (H77) and then put in the appropriate parameters. Seems like they would be crazy not to have it accurate? For a 92" diag 16:9 the results are 10.7'-14.4'. SJ

Originally posted by scotthorton
For a controlled (dark) room:
1. Sharp is very good in it's high contrast mode. Shane say's it's dim compared ot the H77. John thinks with total control a Studiotek 130 would be a good match because he also agrees it's not incredibly bright (in high contrast mode), but has a great pic and he likes the projector. Screen size limt of 92-100 inches for best performance I believe. It has the brightness adjustability so you can turn it up if wanted so that's comething to consider. Shane likes it but thinks it's pricey and likes the H77 better, didn't really seem to care for the Sharp (as compared to his preferred H77 in my situation). Since you have the sharp, I'd love to hear any input from you in this respect.


I would agree with everything you said except a slight issue with the Sharp.... I really, really like the Sharp... It throws one heck of a picture... the knock against the sharp though is that in high contrast mode, it is dimmer than the Optoma and is more expensive.... in and of itself, that isn't that big a deal, as long as your setup works with it's brightness level, or you compensate with a higher gain screen (i.e. High Power from Da-lite is a good choice).

The reason I like the Optoma over the Sharp is a case of value and how it works in my situations....I prefer a larger screen for almost all my viewing. I like to look at each projector I carry in a number of ways..... My number one criteria is if I was paying for this with my own money (which I am in the case of demo models, and given the profit margins, it's a lot closer to actual retail selling price than I care to think about!!), would I buy this over the competition? For example, the BenQ PE8700 sells for XXXX less money than the Optoma..... if given the choice between the two projectors, is the Optoma worth the XXXX dollars more and would I buy it over the BenQ? My answer is "yes".... On a 110 inch diagonal screen, which is the minimum screen size I would use in the demo room the Optoma is mounted in, the Optoma is brighter, throws a better picture, and has more features. The Sharp is XXXX dollars more expensive than the Optoma. For my same setup, the decision is a lot tougher as to which I would choose. The Sharp has a distinct advantage over the Optoma in that it has the adjustable iris. it also does have a contrast advantage when the iris is closed..... But on a 110 inch screen, I would take the Optoma and don't think the Sharp is worth the extra cost to me. If I was using a 92 inch screen size and a different screen material in a total light control environment all the time, that decision would be a lot tougher to make.

The point is, I don't DISlike the sharp. I just think for the price premium, it should have more advantages over the Optoma. While it does have distinct advantages thanks to its adjustable iris, its disadvantages (lower brightness necessitating smaller screen size) for my demo setup means that to me, it isn't worth the extra cost.... others, including customers, have disagreed with me though :)

Right now, the Optoma just doesn't have a peer at its price point if you are using a 110" or smaller screen.... on a bigger screen, I'll take the 7205 or Toshiba clone any day of the week....

Originally posted by hometheaterdoc
On a 110 inch diagonal screen, which is the minimum screen size I would use in the demo room the Optoma is mounted in, the Optoma is brighter, throws a better picture, and has more features.

So which 110" screen material do you prefer with the H77, firehawk or studiotek? Thanks.

Well I wanted to take the time to say thanks for all the staff at AVS mainly Jason and Vashon for putting up with my many questions and urgent demeanor today, they were more than friendly, helpful and understanding, I am going to be pulling the trigger on the H77 and hope all goes well, in any case it will be a few weeks before I see my new unit but since my b&k reference 50 processor is out for some updates it doesnt really matter, where can I go to find a ceiling mount for this unit, does anyone know if chief makes one? again thanks to everyone who took the time to answer some of my questions,

Originally posted by A. Vandelay
So which 110" screen material do you prefer with the H77, firehawk or studiotek? Thanks.

I personally prefer the Firehawk... you give up some purity in the whites.. but you gain even more perceived contrast... even more importantly, you get some ambient light rejection that the studiotek doesn't give you...

If the projector was setup in a reference room where all watching was going to be done with very minimal amounts of ambient light, I would probably go with the Studiotek for the purer whites. But the Firehawk gives me more flexibility to have ambient light and not hurt the picture as much. It's an especially good demonstration tool for customers who can see that there doesn't have to be complete blackness in the room to get a very good picture.... for more casual viewing, the screen helps keep a very acceptable image, while allowing enough light for other things to be going on in the room. The Studiotek washes out more in these types of situations...

Originally posted by funlvr1965
Well I wanted to take the time to say thanks for all the staff at AVS mainly Jason and Vashon for putting up with my many questions and urgent demeanor today, they were more than friendly, helpful and understanding, I am going to be pulling the trigger on the H77 and hope all goes well, in any case it will be a few weeks before I see my new unit but since my b&k reference 50 processor is out for some updates it doesnt really matter, where can I go to find a ceiling mount for this unit, does anyone know if chief makes one? again thanks to everyone who took the time to answer some of my questions,

Optoma has a mount also I checked around for a Chief mount and came up with one for the H76. They may share the same mount configuration. I'll find out.

the H76 and H77 share the same mount configuration. If it worked with the H76, it will definitely work with the H77....

If you got your projector from avs, give them a buzz again about the chief mount... I believe they are dealers for chief as well....

Interestingly enough I called Optoma and I spoke to someone from marketing and asked for a list of dealers, their response was that optoma doesnt have a traditional dealer network, he said as long as you buy the unit new, in a sealed box you will be covered under the 2 year warranty, however it does clearly state on their site that the warranty is NOT transferrable has anyone had a similar conversation with optoma?

Originally posted by funlvr1965
Well I wanted to take the time to say thanks for all the staff at AVS mainly Jason and Vashon for putting up with my many questions and urgent demeanor today, they were more than friendly, helpful and understanding, I am going to be pulling the trigger on the H77 and hope all goes well, in any case it will be a few weeks before I see my new unit but since my b&k reference 50 processor is out for some updates it doesnt really matter, where can I go to find a ceiling mount for this unit, does anyone know if chief makes one? again thanks to everyone who took the time to answer some of my questions,


Anytime,

I hope everything works out in the long run. We'll try our hardest to accommodate whatever needs you have. If your interested in a mount, we deal with those as well.

Originally posted by guitarman
Optoma has a mount also I checked around for a Chief mount and came up with one for the H76. They may share the same mount configuration. I'll find out.

Here's the model number that will work and most likely you need the extension due to the modest throw of the H77. AVS will have a better deal also.

http://www.chiefmfg.com/product_display.asp?typ=pp&id=5405&m=Optoma&mm=H76

good deal Guitarman, I received an email back from chief also mentioning that same part #, spoke with a tech at optoma today and he said that they also offer their own mount for sale, I doubt I will go for theirs though since I love the design of the chief mounts, Ive used two so far and they work great. Also while I was speaking to the tech I asked about how the warranty was handled, he said that for the first 90 days it can be handled as an exchange, either you ship your unit to them and when they get yours they will ship another one out or it can be done as an experess exchange where you provide your credit card # and they ship one one out to you first, definately a plus in my book, also spoke with the salesperson (david) who said that a batch of units are due to come in in a couple of days but im not counting on that too much especially since he said that the waiting list is long so Im sure Ill get mine in a couple of weeks, Im thinking of a 120" screen is anyone using this projector with a screen that large and if so what screen material are they using, is a high gain material necessary for a screen that large? Also concerned with having a sharp picture which is something I look for in a projector, can anyone comment on this aspect of the projector?

If you're going with a large size screen it couldn't hurt to try some higher gain fabrics. After you get the projector maybe you could try out some swatches. I like a bright image that's why I'd choose a higher gain. Right now at 106" diag and 1.0 mat white it looks great. Still trying to decide on whether I should try 1.3 cinema vision or High Power. Think of the H77 as in the same category as the Marantz and Sharp at HC/iris and being a little brighter than both.

The image is very sharp but also smooth and clean of artifacts. I can't see dithering in the blacks even when I raise the brightness higher then is should be.

currently I have a diy screen made from draper m2500 fabric 110" which Is a 2.5 gain, not bad at all as thats what I was using with my sharp 12k, problem is that you can see the vertical track lines in the screen on some bright scenes, I might try a fabric from Hurley screens calles silverglow which is a 2.3 gain, swatches? lol I have tons of swatches I sometimes think its harder to choose a screen than a projector, I was so tempted to go with the infocus 7205 because of this reason, its easier to choose a screen for a projector thats bright than it is to choose high gain fabrics, no need to worry about screens that hotspot and things like that.

Well I finally got to play with the H77 last night again, this time with the Pioneer DV59-Avi with SDI going through the IscanHD(SDI).

I watched the same DVD's with and without SDI/Iscan.

I watched MASH Season 6, StarTrek NG Season 1 for trying out the 16:9 image. I am sure most of you know TV programs prior to 2000 are mostly 4:3 image. The Iscan does a nice job making it 16x9 and the image looked very nice and not stretched.

I also watched Armagedeon* and Crimson Tide. Crimson Tide looks alot more precise in the colors and quality going through the Iscan. Not sure if its the Iscan or the SDI or both, but I am very pleased.

I am still amazed by the quality of the HD programing on the H77. The colors are just fantastic.

I will let everyone know how the 119" CV looks in about 2 weeks, once I have completed my HT room :)

Steve

Any more impressions regarding the benefits of the ISCAN HD + SDI? AVS ISCAN promo is ending soon. I am seriously considering getting one but I am not sure if it is worth the extra cash.

One more thing, I am a huge moive buff and until HD-DVD's come out I want the best picture possible with DVD's, especially when we start expanding the screen size from 27" in the 1980's to 100"+ now.

If you watch alot of DVD's, I would say yes its worth it.

Hopefully more people will chime in on the subject :)

Steve

About the image being sharp,

How are these for showing sharpness and DVI has no Sharpness adjustment.

Plus all the shots are down resed to 800X600 from Hi res.


http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77bravo2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77bravo3.jpg

Originally posted by guitarman
About the image being sharp,

How are these for showing sharpness and DVI has no Sharpness adjustment.

Plus all the shots are down resed to 800X600 from Hi res.



These last two shots, to me, have the appearance of crushed whites, meaning almost no highlight detail. I pointed this out earlier in this thread. Is this condition in the original image or is it a product of your digital camera? I have checked the gamma response of my display and it is fine.

These are bright daylight scenes and white tends to be bright white. Live they look good and not bad on my monitor. This morning I looked at a scene from Mad Mad World were they do the "Splits". In this scene Buddy Hackett wears a light colored jacket. Now on my Old Seleco I had a problem here with crushed whites in that I couldn't see the threads in the jacket lapel. On the H77 this morning all the detail was visible. I wouldn't say the machine crushes whites.

Hey Tom, (old NEC buddy)

If you don't mind me saying so, I think the two shots you are showing are somewhat too sharp and taking away from the natural look.
Shame that DVI on the 77 won't let one play with sharpness. As good as DVI is on any set-up I have used, the sharpness control can still be brought into play, with advantage at times.
Agree with 'barrysb' that the whites also are a bit pushed.
I'm trying to share your enthusiasm about the H77, as I concur with almost all of your thoughts on the HT-1000, but I'm wondering if you are perhaps getting a bit 'too' carried away with this Optoma.
At this stage it seems to be 'standing out' from the crowd of recently released projectors, but would love to see a "relaxed" shootout from some of you guys over that way of this newy with some of the competition.

They are very sharp. Someone wanted sharp. :)
Carried away naah! The H77 is killer. Craig brought over his HT1000 and we did a head to head shootout. It's posted some ways back in this thread. Craig wants one.

Overall it had a stronger image when we comparred it. Darker, richer colors, unreal HDTV. What's not to like. :)

When did I ever get carried away? lol

I'm new, I cant seem to find the page where AVS sells products, someone mentined a promo on the scaler, just want more info. Also is AVS a store? is there a "catalog" thanks.

Drag down that forum jump thing, up top with the go next to it. You need "AVS Power buys specials"

AVS is a Dealer for many companies. If you're interested in something you give them a call, Alan, Jason, Dan. Their phone numbers are easy to find.

AVS has a pretty nice deal on the Optoma H77.

Originally posted by guitarman
About the image being sharp,

How are these for showing sharpness and DVI has no Sharpness adjustment.

Plus all the shots are down resed to 800X600 from Hi res.


http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77bravo2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77bravo3.jpg

Whoops, there is Sharpness control available with DVI, I had it at 3 which is somewhere in the middle I think. The problem with the girl shot is she has water all over her (maybe not a problem :), the sharpness detail on the water droplets is pretty outstanding.

Hey Li-ons over there making a good case for my review. Talking about the Mit's like there's a new King in town.

Thanks Tom. I'm just entering the stage in my life where I can start to get into this HT dream. I wonder, I'm pretty set on the h77, I have a cheap onkyo 6.1 system HTIB (sounds good to my untrained ear) otherwise starting from scratch. What would you suggest as my first purchace other than PJ and screen? Id like to minimize the number of cables I need to fish from my PJ to stereo (about 18 total feet). I'm primarily interested in dvd and hdtv, posibly tivo and some occational sdtv (cable). Thanks for your help/time. Jason.

run the main cables... DVI, component, composite or svideo, VGA 5BNC if you are going to use a computer, or a second run of component if you need it.... the composite or Svideo will save your butt if your receiver doesn't do upconversion on the video inputs to make everything output as component.....

if your receiver has a good component switcher, you may not need the second run... if you need more than one DVI, you're going to need a switcher....

although they can be a pain to install, the power pack kit from Panamax is actually a great little idea that allows you to run the power for the projector to your equipment rack where you presumably have some form of power filtration and surge suppression device... last thing you want happening is that fancy new, ultra expensive projector getting fried by a spike or lightning hit....

I don't know what the power is like in your area, but it is gawd awful in my area (and part of that is due to the shoddy electrical work in the house itself).... I lost more computer hardware (not to mention audio electronics, and phone equipment) than I care to count to power spikes and lightning hits until I got wise and installed some protection.... now it's something I highly recommend to anyone who purchases something from me.....

as for audio equipment, find some audio dealers in your local area. Arrange for some time with them to listen to some stuff. Set a budget, do a search or two in the speakers and amp/receivers forum, and then use the suggestions provided there to see if there are things in your budget that you find more appealing. Otherwise, if you listen to some stuff and you can't really tell the difference between what you have and what the expensive stuff sounds like, stick with what you got... no sense spending money if you don't have to :)

Originally posted by guitarman
Drag down that forum jump thing, up top with the go next to it. You need "AVS Power buys specials"

AVS is a Dealer for many companies. If you're interested in something you give them a call, Alan, Jason, Dan. Their phone numbers are easy to find.

AVS has a pretty nice deal on the Optoma H77.


I'm new, but I'm still available as well;)

Originally posted by tubby
Thanks Tom. I'm just entering the stage in my life where I can start to get into this HT dream. I wonder, I'm pretty set on the h77, I have a cheap onkyo 6.1 system HTIB (sounds good to my untrained ear) otherwise starting from scratch. What would you suggest as my first purchace other than PJ and screen? Id like to minimize the number of cables I need to fish from my PJ to stereo (about 18 total feet). I'm primarily interested in dvd and hdtv, posibly tivo and some occational sdtv (cable). Thanks for your help/time. Jason.

Right if you're receiver has component switching you're set. One component output and two inputs. You say Tivo and cable companies are adding HD-boxes with an onboard PVR. If your cable co has this then it's easy. Both items going to the receiver and just one component cable going from the receiver to the PJ.

If I get iscan HD, does this minimize the number of cables going to the pj? I realized I also want to be able to hook a computer up. So here are the components:
PC
HDTV sat reciever
SDTV (cable)
480p DVD
VCR
HD antenna/tuner

Thanks again.

ps. If this isnt the right forum for this topic please redirect me

Yes the Iscan can take all of your equipment in and send it out via DVI cable. Thats all I have going to my projector :)

Steve

tubby, you have a pm.

Dan

Originally posted by tubby
If I get iscan HD, does this minimize the number of cables going to the pj? I realized I also want to be able to hook a computer up. So here are the components:
PC
HDTV sat reciever
SDTV (cable)
480p DVD
VCR
HD antenna/tuner

Thanks again.

ps. If this isnt the right forum for this topic please redirect me

Nice piece of machinery to go with the H77. Although there's some excellent scaling being done with the Projectors chip also.

Tom,
How far away are you seated from the 106" screen? NEC HT1000 brighter than H77 or just about the same?

I'm at 12' back but could view from 7' back and still see a smooth screen. It's brighter than the HT1000 with much more contrast.

Well the picture looks bright to me.

I tested out my HT room to see where I wanted to mount the projector and I had it at a distance of 14.3ft projecting at 119" 16x9.

I am projection it onto a plain drywall(completely unfinished and can see the screws in the picture) and the movies still looked very good(cant wait to mount the 119" CV screen :).

The feed was the movie "The Saint", Projector H77, DVD player DV59-AVI feed thru SDI and the IscanHD.

You can change the picture in so many different ways with the IscanHD :)

Steve

I agree, the screendoor iS non-existant (to my eyes) after 6-7ft at 119"

STeve

Steve, Your 119" screen - width or diagonal? What is a CV screen?
I have seen a H77 yesterday and must say it changed my opinion towards DLP. It might be my next upgrade.
Frank

" What is a CV screen ? " - a DaLite Cinema Vision ( the material type - white 1.3 gain ) screen.

The H77 should be nice and bright with the 1.3 CV and I don't think blacks will suffer one bit.

Can someone post a link to the AVS power buy of a H77?

Originally posted by kaka
Can someone post a link to the AVS power buy of a H77?

Drag down forum jump, up top with the go next to it. You need "AVS Power buys specials"

The power buy we'e taking about is for the ISCAN HD. No power buy on the Optoma. They do have a great price for it, you have to call an AVS salesman.

Yup, such a great price even without a powerbuy, I can't wait to finish my new theater!!

Been foolin with Tube Stereo Receviers and VIntage JBL's all morning. TIme to fire up the H77 and move into the next Century. :)

Get one and you'll see.

Wow, after spending the last 2 weeks lurking around here I can say that I am completely perplexed with all of the options available in the HT world. So I'm pretty set on making the H77 my first purchase and using my old progressive scan sony dvd changer for now.

My latest question is, considering the future, how should I wire my ceiling mounted H77 pj? After reading this site, I do have interest in obtaining SDI DVD, HDTV (sat or cable or poss. OTA receiver) Computer or game console, and a HD DVR. I was (and still am ) considering starting with iscan HD make things easier, but now I'm thinking that it does not have enough DVI inputs to handle switching of the HD signals, Therefore I'm thinking of holding off until the hardware changes. So, what would you suggest I run to my projector (I don't want to have to fish cables more than once) knowing that I don't have a scaler yet, but probably will. For now I'll probably just hook up my $200 sony (progressive) dvd changer. Thanks.

I gave up DVI for the Comcast box and preferred to use DVI for the DVD player (Bravo D1). Mainly because a/b'ing SDTV channels between DVI and analog component I thought componet looked sharper with better contrast.

Ideal for me is.
Comast HD and Sony HD for OTA going to my HK7200 to let it do the switching.

S-video from a Replay TV going to the PJ direct.

DVI from the Bravo to the PJ

No doubt though, you got allot of stuff you going to have allot of cables. ;)

Thanks Tom, I sent you a PM.

Frank--My screen is 119" diagonal. I will be mounting it in about 10 days.

:)

Steve

From SteveFred:

You can change the picture in so many different ways with the IscanHD

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Am I correct in saying that the iScan HD does not actually "process" a DVI signal applied to it, but will actually switch it and pass the digital signal unprocessed to the output?

Originally posted by Fishhooks
From SteveFred:

You can change the picture in so many different ways with the IscanHD

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Am I correct in saying that the iScan HD does not actually "process" a DVI signal applied to it, but will actually switch it and pass the digital signal unprocessed to the output?

If the DVI signal is 720p or 1080i than the iSCAN will pass it through. However, with an upcoming software release for the iSCAN (which is in BETA now), I believe that the iSCAN will also be able to process HD signals. It will only do this for DVI (and not analog/component). You can get more info from the VIDEO PROCESSOR forum. SJ

Did i miss something?
The H77 got highest praise, just based on personal impressions.
Where are the calibration xls from colorfacts, maybe you have to bring KrasMuzik into the game. Saw some reports from him, and i´m pretty sure that he also did his shootout with Optoma.

Best
Armin

True its nice to know all the spec details and things from calibration tests, but I see nothing wrong with personal impression also.

I mean sometimes in these forums, people take the specs to such extremes that are not needed. Our my eyes 100% correct, of course not, but once I have played with the H77 for awhile now, the picture is sharp, the colors are vibrant and the black are deep.

So I understand what your saying, but personal impression does also count for something :)

Steve

Ekkehart at CineHome from Germany got 3500.1. Posted earlier in this thread.

Yes, 3500:1 Max and about 1900:1 at D65...

Next week i will have a Mitsubishi sample here for a review....

I might also get the H77 so i can check if there really is any difference between the two :)

Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de

Interesting, what differences? Guess we'll get an exploded review. :)

Here's some images and tests I found interesting. These were taken with daylight lighting up the room so dark scenes can look grainy. Camera's fault.

Color bars, but I had gamma 3 going which is a little bright. All other shots were at gamma 2, all done with the Bravo D1/DVI player.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77colorbar.jpg

About white crush, none here.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77mad1.jpg

Close up of light colored jacket.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77closeup.jpg

Screen door, faint in color like Optoma H30
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77sd.jpg

Same shot one at low brightness and one at highbrightness lamp mode.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77lowpower.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77hipower.jpg

Two scenes at hipower brightness, one shows the Optoma reds nicely.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77max4.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77max5.jpg
Whoa baby, this last Titus picture show volumes.

Tom,
don´t get me wrong, the Bravo is far away from any reference. As long as you have DVI out, you have to deal with up sampling in the source.
As long as you can´t provide a perfect! SDI in a processor, DVI to projector,
so, at the end of the day, you don´t know what is the player and what is the projector.
One projector might deal better with analogue in, the next with digital in. So, we have to do perfect measurements on the processor output, to find if it cover the perfect voltage range, then we have to calibrate to a specific environment. Unless that wasn´t done there is NO counting justification to come to an result.
Steve,
when you made your decision to the H77, i have to assume that this one was better calibrated then the opponent, that´s what it´s worth to have the Colorfacts pro charts.
And when you take Ekkehards measurements into count , you will see, that what it´s done before is absolute important to know. I´m sure that your experience didn´t cheat you, but what happens with the beginners?

Best
Armin

"Tom,
don´t get me wrong, the Bravo is far away from any reference. As long as you have DVI out, you have to deal with up sampling in the source.
As long as you can´t provide a perfect! SDI in a processor, DVI to projector,
so, at the end of the day, you don´t know what is the player and what is the projector."

Naah, life doesn't have to be that technical. lol sounds like you're saying my tuning skills are lacking. :)

What's not to like? I think I can get to live another day. ;)
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77max4.jpg


Steve, don't let it bug you, you made a fine choice. enjoy

Tom,
hope you don´t want to say me something with this image, if yes , i have to leave the thread.

Best
Armin

In the words of Monty Python,

"Always look on the bright side of life"

do do, do do do do de do

:)

Don't be so negative, it's a mother fine projector. :)

Tom,
i´m not negative!
I´m pretty sure that it ia worth every $ one pays for( also€?), from what i saw from the screen shots
But i hate to deal with unproved figures.
So a bit more information , made by a forum particpant, will be much more informative without beeing biased or things lieke that.


Best
Armin

Can anybody tell me the range of PJ location (distance) from a 16:9 screen with 114" width (130" diagonal) ? I mean for the H77 of course.
Thanks,
Frank

that is an awfully big screen for this pj, isn't it??

I can't wait to get an H77 !!! I really like this projector.

"Tom,
don´t get me wrong, the Bravo is far away from any reference. As long as you have DVI out, you have to deal with up sampling in the source.
As long as you can´t provide a perfect! SDI in a processor, DVI to projector,
so, at the end of the day, you don´t know what is the player and what is the projector."
//////


In defense of accuracy or lack of (and Tom).
The Bravo's DVI-AVIA pattern output measurement's differ very little if at all compared with Accupel's 3000 DVI generator. I believe the Bravo D1 can be used with confidence as an inexpensive substitute DVI - AVIA pattern and/or test generator.

Thank you Armin,

Let's get some more balance into the 'picture'

Nice going Jimmy. I knew the Bravo was good, but had no idea. :)

Anyone knows how often the air filter needs cleaning or replacement?
The air intake is situated at the bottom of the unit, am I correct on this?

Thanks.

It's sealed optics but yes I did see a filter on the bottom intake. Next time I talk to Wing I'll ask about the filter.

Originally posted by Cine4Home
Yes, 3500:1 Max and about 1900:1 at D65...



Hi Ekkehart,

I missed this earlier, but I assume you had to drop the green and blue to get them to match the red for D65, so would you say an FL-Day filter would help improve contrast?

I'm getting more than that out of my HT1000 with FL-Day mod, so surely the H77 can benefit too?

Gary.

What do you clean the lens with? I assume its just like a camera :)

Steve

I use eyeglass cleaner and an eyeglass towel. But you don't have to clean too often. Maybe once a month or more. You could use compressed air for a quick touch up. Just don't shake the can or if you do make sure there's no liquid spraying.

Originally posted by Gary Lightfoot
Hi Ekkehart,

I missed this earlier, but I assume you had to drop the green and blue to get them to match the red for D65, so would you say an FL-Day filter would help improve contrast?

I'm getting more than that out of my HT1000 with FL-Day mod, so surely the H77 can benefit too?

Gary.

I think Ekkehart, uses the colorfacts One eye for CR readings. Do you have a better light meter like the Minolta LS100? From what I've read you can't use CF for correct CR measurements.

Optoma is going to get an H77 over to Geoffrey Morrison at Home Theater Mag. His reviews are very good and the company got him some great measuring equipment. I hope he appreciates it but I pushed Optoma
s Marketing Director to get him an H77 first thing. They said they were already on it. Nothing like a good review. ;)

I think Ekkehart, uses the colorfacts One eye for CR readings. Do you have a better light meter like the Minolta LS100? From what I've read you can't use CF for correct CR measurements.


I do not use the Eye one for CR readings. :) So my measurements are pretty accurate. And when you compare, my measured max. CR matches almost exactly the official PJ spec ;)


About the filter, I will chek out next week what filter fits best to get above 3000:1 at D65.


Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de

Originally posted by Cine4Home
I do not use the Eye one for CR readings. :) So my measurements are pretty accurate. And when you compare, my measured max. CR matches almost exactly the official PJ spec ;)


About the filter, I will chek out next week what filter fits best to get above 3000:1 at D65.


Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de

Ah, I knew you used colorfacts so I figured the One/eye. Anyway very good, I'd be interested to see which color filter works. You must have a box full of the things. ;)

Ekkehart, Tom/guitarman,

I just got the H77 but noticed there were no filter threads on the lens. How would you attach a filter to this projector?

Ira

You could use small strips of velcro. Which might be a plus becuase they will be some venting.

Question about scaling, the Optoma is 720p, right? What happens if you feed it a 1080p signal? I'm just trying to get prepared for the future of HD DVD. Do any of the new external scalers down convert 1080p to 720p? Or am I not thinking correctly? Thanks.

You could scale anything. I know the HT1000 accepted 1080p. I'll check the H77 manual.

llewelyn.biz. Great group. Can arrange for backstage passes, and they're happy to go out for meals. Not sure if they'll share their women (although the promise of a few album sales might swing them).

Sorry Tom...had to do it.

I've skimmed this thread and am not 100% clear on the comparisons to the marantz S2 or S3. Can someone who has experience with both comment on the brightness between the 2? How about contrast and colors? THanks for any insight.

John

The Optoma H77 seems slightly brighter than the Marantz S3. The Marantz has better contrast and a better scaler. I'm in the market for this type of projector and have seen both of them. If money was no object, I personally would get the Marantz. I just wish somebody actually sold the Marantz at a discount! My local dealer only wants to charge FULL price.

The Marantz was my favorite and I can see it everyday since the Pro Home outlet is literally next door to where I work.

They both look very good. But I don't recall getting the hit you in the face with the 3D contrast that I get with the H77. Maybe because it's brighter. Don't forget the reds also. About the Optoma's scaler vs the Faroudja scaler, I disagree this scaler deinterlacer does everything the Faroudja chip does. It doesn't miss a beat.

Still a tuff choice. I like the tune up idea on the Marantz but don't know how well it works. I really like the motorized zoom and focus on the H77.

Originally posted by John Alison
llewelyn.biz. Great group. Can arrange for backstage passes, and they're happy to go out for meals. Not sure if they'll share their women (although the promise of a few album sales might swing them).

Sorry Tom...had to do it.

I know. I could at least help another Video guy at getting the inside track. Someone Pm'ed me the Hotel where the guys might stay. Lets see

Originally posted by guitarman
The Marantz was my favorite and I can see it everyday since the Pro Home outlet is literally next door to where I work.

They both look very good. But I don't recall getting the hit you in the face with the 3D contrast that I get with the H77. Maybe because it's brighter. Don't forget the reds also. About the Optoma's scaler vs the Faroudja scaler, I disagree this scaler deinterlacer does everything the Faroudja chip does. It doesn't miss a beat.

Still a tuff choice. I like the tune up idea on the Marantz but don't know how well it works. I really like the motorized zoom and focus on the H77.

So youre saying the H77 is brighter? If so, is it to the point that you could get away with more ambient light with the H77 than the marantz?

My HT will be completely dark for movies but sometimes i may have friends over to hang out and watch sports and may want some lights on if people are eating, etc. If the H77's brightness might make it possible to have more ambient light in this capacity i would consider that a plus.

I probably wont be using the scaler in the PJ since ill likely be doing that before it get there.

Whats the 'tune up' on the marantz? Is that the auto calibration thing?

Thanks for your insight here. All of your comments on this thread have been very useful.

John

Yes the H77 handles light in the room very well.

The 12s3 comes with an item you put on the lens that talks to the projector and makes color adjustments to find 6500k according to the room environment.

How well it works, I'm not sure.

Greg Rogers, in his WSR review of the S3, found the auto-calibration to work pretty well with very flat tracking at 6600 K until 20 IRE when it went to 6800 K reaching 7400 K at 10 IRE. He manually calibrated for better tracking at the lower IREs.

Dan

Then it's very good. You know it's hard to track under 30. Neat trick

But no power zoom & focus. :)

Someone asked about the filter. The filter can be hand cleaned and re-used. How often, it's up to how dusty the enviorment is.

Tom,

Thanks for the info regarding the filter. That was me. I'm "inches" away in getting/buying that H77.

The filter is really just an extra protecjtion because the projector already has sealed optics.

Pick one up, you can see how once the projector was out in a few places other respected members were seeing things just like I did.
Great picture, great price. :)

Some new screen shots after some tweaking of RGB's, taken using the Bravo D1 DVI player.

See what you think of the facil colors.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77gandolf.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77frodo1.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77frodo2.jpg

Shire green!
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77shire.jpg

My RGB's
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77rgb.jpg

Hey tom,

whats the RGB setting, the pic is unreadable(well atleast for me on my work comp)

STeve :)

Tom,

What is the effect of altering the RGB values for brightness and contrast individually? Is this a useful way to get closer to D65 gray? If so, what did you use to measure the color temperature? Also, any advice you might have for how to do the testing and adjustment would be welcome.

I am into digital photography and already own a Gretag-Macbeth Eye-One photospectrometer with general purpose software that allows me to measure color temperature of light sources. However, I have no idea how I might use it to fine tune gray scale on the H77. All advice welcome.

Thanks,
Ira

Steve, it's clear on my $99 monitor. :)

R-contrast 8
G-contrast 7
B-contrast 7

R-brightness 3
G-brightness 3
B-brightness 3

Ira, I used my eye and increased the levels to open up a bright picture and balance the grayscale trying to make facil tones to what I remember 6500k looking like. I sold my Colorfacts system some time ago that had the one/eye.

What you do with you software and one/eye is run Avia'a full screen IRE patterns. Black to shades of gray to white.

Use RGB-contrast for 50 and above IRE levels

Use RGB-brightness for 40 and below IRE levels

You want each IRE pattern to put the Red,green, blue at the 6500k line. Best way to start is to bounce between 80Ire over to 30IRE, work you way in between.

Then try to fine tune the 90 & 100ire and the very low 20, 10 IRE. It's tricky you just keep checking the lows and the highs.

Usually it's very hard to line up 10Ire and sometimes even 20, so don't worry too much about them. If you have a fairly good tracking from 30 to above that could be good enough.

Will the h77 do 1 for 1 pixel mapping over DVI and or RGB/Component? I would needto override the internal scalar with an outboard one.

And just to confirm, this machine does have all the same DLP parts of the Sharp 12k and Marantz S3? Ie HD2+, 8 segment color wheel, ect...

Brad

If I am correct the sharp 12000 has a 7 seg color wheel not 8 :)

Yes it does do 1.1 with my Bravo over DVI, no overscan nice clean picture.

The H77 has the HD2+ dark chip. But it has double dark green segments making an 8 segemant color wheel. The Sharp and Marantz have one dark green segement making a 7 segment color wheel.

As far as I know, the H77 (and its likely clone from Mitsubishi) are the only HD2+ units that use an 8 segment wheel. The others use 7 segment (most of them) or a 6 segment wheel (Benq 8700+).

Ira

8 segment design? Maybe this is why it's looking better. ;)

Balancing one dark green between each of the RGB sections. We always like balance don't we? :)

So you guys didn't notice anything unusual about the first two Gandolf and Frodo exchange pictures?

I forgot I had the Bravo set at 4.3 because I wanted a full 16.9 frame for a test I was doing. Made the image squashed and I use the Letterbox aspect to stretch it. It shows a taller image.

The shots after that I reset the bravo to the correct 16.9.

what kind of test? You get ananamorphic lens??

I needed to show that the image had no horizontal lines. ;)



http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77d1.jpg

can i ask how many hours the ht1000 had on the globe when you and craig did the a/b comparison ?

My bulb had about 300 hours on it!

Is the lens glass or plastic on the H77?

H77 has a glass lens. BenQ has the plastic lens.

Sounds like a quality piece. Thanks.

It's picture quality is the real surprise. There's been a haf dozen or more members here that reviewed or had a look and all comparison reviews put the H77 at the top.

If you're planning on picking one up, talk the AVS, they have the best deal I've heard of and they're in line for quick shipments.
good luck

Took some 3D shots this morning of my favorite movie opening credits. My wife thinks I'm nuts but I could watch this intro a million times.

These taken with the PJ in Brightness mode using the Pany XP30 in progressive.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77panic1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77panic2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77panic3.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77panic4.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77panic5.jpg

Optoma remote lit up, great hard button discrete's
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77remote.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77remote1.jpg

I have an Optoma H30 also and consensus is it's an extremely bright projector. Here's a comparison. Same DVD player & screen gain (Mat White).

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h30panic1.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77panic3.jpg

Sorry Tom, I forgot which screen you have the 77 on.

106" diag Mat White because that's what I've had around lately. Better choices are the Cinema Vision or High Power. CV if you go tensioned, HP if not.

Well I just couldnt wait for the carpet install tomorrow, so I went ahead and put the screen up on the frame.

I have a 119" Da-lite CV screen with the velvet border. I love the border, it eats any extra light and you cant even tell.

Well the H77 on the 119" screen, looked great. I watched Starwars II in HD for about 10 mins, Star Trek First contact also in HD for about 10mins and Entrapment on DVD through the iScanHD SDI output.

The colors were solid, the screen door could not be seen by me after 7ft(first row of seating at 16'). There were no rainbows for me.

I also watched Discovery HD of a flower garden and I mean I thought I was there :))

I did also watch the news on normal digital output and it looked good.

I will try to take some Screen shots this weekend, but have never done that before, so we will see :)

The bad thing was I went up stairs and watched the rest of the news on my 57" HDTV and it looked like I was watching a 13" TV, hehehehehe.

Steve

I saw all the work you've been doing at building a theater room. Excellent!

Tips on screen shots is a completely dark room if you can, a tripod, locate the fields of vision as close as you can to the screen width.

You're right it's hard to see a screen door on the H77, it's pixels fill is high and the area around each pixel is faint in color. Keep going Star Wars series is just 1 1/2 weeks away. The H77 is an exciting high end projector. Not everyone knows this yet but they will.
enjoy

Yes is been a very long 4 weeks. I have spent every waking hour(other than work) building my dream theater :)

Thanks for the screen shot info :)

So anyone looking at getting a 119" screen with the H77, I wouldn't hesitate a bit :D , my screen is a 1.3 gain. IMO the High powered or high gain/grey screens are not needed with this machine.

Steve

I have a Bravo D2, an H77 and a SF Firehawk 110 on the way. Comcast DVI HD is here waiting. Expect pieces to start arriving in a week or 2. I'll post my laymens opinion of PJ/Screen when I can play with them.

Cheers,
Scott

Firehawk s/b be great. You've probably read the H77 sync's well with the Comcast STB. Some other PJ's are having trouble syncing 480i over DVI. No problem with the H77.

Be interested to hear how the blacks and colors look on the Firehawk.

Originally posted by guitarman
Firehawk s/b be great. You've probably read the H77 sync's well with the Comcast STB. Some other PJ's are having trouble syncing 480i over DVI. No problem with the H77.
Cool, no I didn't know that. Must have missed it. Thanks for the info. My projector man is having trouble getting a long cable to work from the D2 to the H77 though (30'). He has several other brands on the way for testing. I'll need a DVI switch to use the HD box and the D2 which won't help on losses. I'll let everyone know how it goes.
[B]Be interested to hear how the blacks and colors look on the Firehawk. It better be nearly perfect. After all it's you tenacious input here that made me pick it.:eek:

It's not just me, Li-on, Craig, a couple of European viewers. The list will grow soon. I have a 30' DVI-I cable I've had for a while, used it with the HT1000 and now the H77. Works like a dream, no sign of sparkles ($59) si87

Man I cant wait, this will be my first projector, I finally can afford to make this stuff a reality. I'm so glad that you experienced av guys are satisfied with this unit. Thanks for your help over the past few weeks.

Originally posted by guitarman
[B]It's not just me, Li-on, Craig, a couple of European viewers. The list will grow soon.
Yes, but I don't think anyone has liked it like you! :D Hopefully I will, too. As for the others, I thought Li-on said he saw problems with vertical banding? Correct me if I remembered wrong, the thread is too long to look it up
I have a 30' DVI-I cable I've had for a while, used it with the HT1000 and now the H77. Works like a dream, no sign of sparkles ($59) si87

I thought this puppy needed DVD-D?

Anyway, what brand cable are you using?
Have you tried it with the Bravo D2?
With the D2 and through a DVI switch?

Anyone else?


Thanks,
Scott

Of course I meant: ... needed DVI-D? And I answered my own newbie question: "DVI-I contains both the digital and analog connections, (DVI-D + DVI-A) , it's essentially a combination of DVI-D and DVI-A cables within one cable. " Nevermind
Scott
(Speels better thay typs.;))

I have a singal link DVI-I cable. In the manual it states DVI-I but Wing told me a DVD-D would work also. I've used the cable with the Bravo D1 and the Comcast STB. Since I don't hv a switcher yet I'm running the STB with components.

Li-on can see anomolies in all projectors. He did say the Mits is the best 720p DLP he's seen. They comparred it with a couple of Sharp Z12000's.

I haven't noticed any problems with my H77.

Originally posted by guitarman
I've used the cable with the Bravo D1 and the Comcast STB.
Ahh. The D1 isn't supposed to suffer the cable length issue, but thats a topic for another thread (already started)Li-on can see anomolies in all projectors. ...I haven't noticed any problems with my H77. My kind of reviewer ;), easier for me to swallow if I hear what's wrong along with what's good. My natural suspicious nature makes me wonder when only good has to be said.
Cheers,
Scott

Tom:

Hope this is constructive criticism, but dragging both of your latest screen shots comparing the 30 & 77 up together on the same screen, shows the 30 to have a cleaner, smoother picture (at this end anyway).
Take a look at the rather hot and almost clipped building on the right side. The '30' picture shows this building with more detail and the edges of the building much smoother.
Take a look also at the orange coloured tiled roof in the foreground, again I feel much cleaner on the 30. The lettering (Music by Howard Shore) and the bus turning the corner, again very clean on the 30 compared to the rather rough and edgy appearance of the 77.
I don't always like judging projectors by screen shots and I know you were mainly comparing brightness, but it's easy to see the difference in cleaner detail on the H30.
If anything I think you've demonstrated just how good a significantly cheaper projector can be.
I've never owned an H30 and only seen a quick demo in Singapore, but this must be one hell of a machine. If flesh tones come up as well on a 30 toward the HT1000/1100 quality, it must still rate as an amazing machine!

'edit'

Another look, several hours later, I know this is getting very "picky"
But, take a look at the uppermost window about center frame on the previously mentioned rather hot building:
On the '77' shot, this window has very jagged edges including what appears to be a curtain on the left hand side of the window.
Whereas the '30' shot shows this window and the inside curtain as having very smooth and natural edges.
The '77' shot in general seems to be over-sharp to the extent of distorting all the prominent edges including the lettering in the photo.
I know these are only screenshots but I have noticed in many of the earlier shots throughout this thread, this almost unnatural sharpness.

Unless of course we are saying that this projector is so good because it is Razor-sharp.

If so, fine, but certainly very different to the great natural 'Film-like' look of the NEC's that I'm used to.

Well I really think these forums are a great tool for knowledge, but when it comes to picture quality, you have to see things in person.

Screen shots really do not give you the true picture(no pun intended).

One shot the camera is great and the next its off.

Steve

Have to agree Steve, I guess I'll have to apologize for trying to be too critical in looking at these shots, which like you, I've held to for a long time as being not a reliable indicator, but I do think this thread is really approaching "Burn-out" re this projector which I'm sure is great, but really, it's just a picture thingo after all.

Yes this is a long thread, but I just noticed the Optoma H30 thread its like 337pages long, geeeezzzzz. :)

Steve

Anyone seen these in stock anywhere avail for immediate delivery. My supplier is getting what I think is a runaround from Optoma. Wasn't there an availability problem, borderline fiasco with the H30? Wondered if it's about to happen again?

Cheers,
Scott

I know they are on back order everywhere.

I feel lucky I received mine 2 weeks ago

Steve

Anyone seen these in stock anywhere avail for immediate delivery. My supplier is getting what I think is a runaround from Optoma. Wasn't there an availability problem, borderline fiasco with the H30? Wondered if it's about to happen again?

It seems as if they are in short supply. I got the last one from my distributor a few days ago for a customer.

On another note, for those that are thinking about going with a very large screen with the H77, it should work out fine. I set one up on a 120" wide da-mat screen (1.0 gain) and there was brightness to spare. This was in a fully light controlled room, dark ceilings, etc. What we did notice when setting the unit up is a substantial drop in light output when using a progressive signal rather than interlace. We stuck with interlace for that reason and the pixelworks chip seemed to do a good job. The colors seemed to be off out of the box and I have not tweaked them yet. I have a feeling the picture will of course be slighly dimmer after calibration, but brite mode will help. Either it will need to run in brite mode at that size after calibration, or go with a gain screen of 1.3 or greater. I must say, a dead silent unit is pretty sweet. It really is borderline silent. Power focus is also a nice feature.

The Cedia show will probably slow down things for a week.

Tom: Since you are buddies with them... have you seen a service manual for these puppies? Does one exist? May I see it :D The regular manual is OK, but missing some stuff.
Cheers,
Scott

No manual but I know how the enter the service area.

So here we have a report from OhmyheckHT (love that handle, that has a "special" meaning around these parts) that is in line with Evan Powell's projectorcentral review with respect to the "Substantial drop in output," but he (Powell) says it was higher with progressive input than interlace or DVI.

But, Tom or others, you've seen no light drop between interlace or DVI and progressive output on the H77?

Dan

Yeah I tested my PJ again this morning. Avia tuned the blacks & whites for both signals. Brightness was very close with progressive maybe being slighty brighter. DVI looks even brighter. Varied results are probably knowing your machine and calibrating each signal to it's best.

I didn't look but I think Evan said Progressive is brighter. I think he had a bad bulb or had the lens cap on when he looked at it. ;)

Only 25 guys got in on the first batch and the majority says it's bright. Li-on says it's brighter than the Sharp Z12000 with the IRIS set at it's brightest.

"I've never owned an H30 and only seen a quick demo in Singapore, but this must be one hell of a machine. If flesh tones come up as well on a 30 toward the HT1000/1100 quality, it must still rate as an amazing machine!"

It is a nice little projector but it is SVGA. Optoma's colors can be very good and the H77 is similar with much better reds and blues, around 65% better for these. Plus you get the super detailed image of high resolution. I popped on the H30 two days ago and the hit in resolution stands out, looks a little bumpy. lol

Both still very fine projectors for different budgets.

It was surely dimmer in progressive. Bumping gamma up to 4 helped. I remember the review said just the opposite that I experienced. The DVD player was a pioneer elite changer...not sure the exact model. I would say the projector is pretty bright overall. I demoed the 7205 for my customer before the H77. They liked the brightness of the 7205 but wanted a silent AND bright projector. It's not as bright, but can easily swing a 120" wide image.

Hello guys,

What would you say is the largest 1.78:1 (HDTV) screen size for the H77 giving you the optimal picture quality? Some say 110" wide and others 120" wide. I'm considering a 126" diagonal 1.78:1 screen from Carada. Would I be pushing it? Or would the H77 still give me kick_ss picture quality at 126"?

Thanks!! :)

Brilliant white from Carada at 126" D would be really good.

Originally posted by OhmyheckHT
Brilliant white from Carada at 126" D would be really good.

Thanks OhmyheckHT! :)

But what would you (or any of the other forum members) say would be the MAXIMUM recommended screen size (diagonal) with the H77 without sacrificing any performance? Would a screen with 120" wide be it?

I would say 120" wide with a screen gain of 1.3. DaLite Cinemavision, or brilliant white from Carada would be good. If you can afford it, I think a Studiotek 130 would be awesome. Light control will be important here too although I did have a small 15 watt lamp running in the back of the theater while I made some adjustments and the picture still looked great.

Just realized you wanted maximum diagonal...I around 140"...again with a screen gain of about 1.3 and light control.

Originally posted by OhmyheckHT
I would say 120" wide with a screen gain of 1.3. DaLite Cinemavision, or brilliant white from Carada would be good. If you can afford it, I think a Studiotek 130 would be awesome. Light control will be important here too although I did have a small 15 watt lamp running in the back of the theater while I made some adjustments and the picture still looked great.

Hiya OhmyheckHT,

Yep, that sounds like the prevailing recommended screen "width". So with that in mind, I could go with a 134" Carada 1.78:1 screen who's "viewing area" would be 5.4ft by 9.7ft (65.7" by 116.8" with frame). Not bad at all!! But I think 142" diagonal would be starting to push the "limits" as my room height will be around 8 feet (planning on a 18'x24' room). A 142" screen will have dimensions of 73.8" x 127.9" (including the frame). Leaving roughly 2 ft (proably less once room is finihsed) for a center speaker and stand.

Oh btw...I ALWAYS watch dvds in darkness. No ambient light what so ever! I don't see how people could do otherwise. :)

Just out of curosity how much would a Stewart Studiotek 130 run? Let's say at 126" or 134" diagonal. I'll most likel go with Carada as they are well made and priced right.

Thanks for your words!! :)

After scoping out what I could from Cedia threads. I got the impression many liked the image on the new H57. Not much input on the H77 and the little boy 480p model which I thought was in their booth also.

Some more input on the H77 would be great. I can't see how it didn't blow people away from what I see right here in front of me. This thing is pure perfection.

Originally posted by guitarman
After scoping out what I could from Cedia threads. I got the impression many liked the image on the new H57. Not much input on the H77 and the little boy 480p model which I thought was in their booth also.

Some more input on the H77 would be great. I can't see how it didn't blow people away from what I see right here in front of me. This thing is pure perfection.

Tom, are you sure you really don't work for Optoma? :D :D

Tom, great to keep reading how great it is but do you think you coud lay off for a week or so :) We still can't get them hgere in the UK, not even for demo, and the continual reading of your posts is killing me.

Only kidding. It's just raising the expectation levels that's all. I hope not too high :)

Hai,

I should have gotten my demo unit this week in the Netherlands but it seems someone dropped
the demo unit :(.

o well....

Daniel.

With Cedia out of the way they can concentrate more on the shipping now. I'll check in with them next week for an update.

Funny it seems like I work for them but for no paycheck :) But they did let me get in on the very first H77's available. I'm just happy I have a good re-pore and can get important info. Like the service menu was a handy one. Plus there's a new firmware for Letterbox support. The later shipments from Taiwan will already have this, but the first 25 that got out quick could use it if they want.

In Europe some had a problem with smearing. I was looking in the manual today and wonder if you tried the (Phase adjustment) under signals.

It says Phase synchronizes the signal timing, if you have flickering or unstable image.
Phase becomes available with component progressive signals.

Just out of curosity how much would a Stewart Studiotek 130 run? Let's say at 126" or 134" diagonal. I'll most likel go with Carada as they are well made and priced right.

I think MSRP for a 123" Studiotek is about $2400. Check with AVS for pricing.

Originally posted by OhmyheckHT
I think MSRP for a 123" Studiotek is about $2400. Check with AVS for pricing.

For the Luxus Deluxe Screenwall (which I like quite a bit more than the non deluxe screenwall), MSRP is $2336 for a 123" in any of the various fabrics, including studiotek.....

Originally posted by guitarman
Plus there's a new firmware for Letterbox support. The later shipments from Taiwan will already have this, but the first 25 that got out quick could use it if they want.

OK, I'll bite here.

*How can I tell if I have one of the lucky first 25 units?

*How is letterbox support improved and what do I need to do to get this update?

*Is there anything else that us lucky early adopters need to fix?

Thanks Tom.

Ira

I just pulled in the door back from CEDIA. Had a lot of fun checking everything out. I saw the H77 there and it was nice, albeit in a perfect dark display room. I also saw the Mitsubishi version and it wasn't in a perfect dark room and it was just OK. The Mit. seemed to boast some features the H77 is missing, in particular a selectable colorwheel speed and an apparantly more robust remote with discrete IR codes. They claim different optics, but they didn't know any details other than that. They also said theirs bypasses the Optoma scaler and uses their proprietary Mit. scaler for 1080 material.

And while I enjoy my H77 (if they get their distribution going), I'll be looking forward to when I can get the new Sony Qualia (sp?)projector. I liked it a whole lot.

Cheers,
Scott

With all this talk about over scan it is unclear to me if the h77 will actually do 1 to 1 pixel mapping from a HTPC or scaler.

Can anyone confirm for sure that the you can bypass the internal processing and actually display a 1 to 1 pixel 720p image with no over scan and no internal image processing?

This over scan might be pretty big disadvantage for anyone who wants to use an outboard scalar. I love to see someone with a HTPC hooked to this projector project the attached 720p image.

Thanks,
Brad

I should be getting my HTPC up and running early this week and I will throw this up on my H77. Now if I could just get my installer to show up when he says (hehe, just kidding) don't want to piss him off now this close to completion..

Putting value and price completely aside, I'd like to hear impressions from people that have a lot of viewing experience with both the 12K and H77, to hear specifically which picture quality advantages one may have over the other. Thanks.

Was the H77 the projector that Joe Kane helped designed, or am I completley mixing that up with another unit?

You're mixing it up with the Samsung SPH-700a .

Originally posted by lovingdvd
Putting value and price completely aside, I'd like to hear impressions from people that have a lot of viewing experience with both the 12K and H77, to hear specifically which picture quality advantages one may have over the other. Thanks.

read further back in this thread.... I've already posted my thoughts.... err.... actually scott posted some of my thoughts and I confirmed them :)

To save anyone searching back through 21 pages here's an extract from that post

"John in CO at http://www.IntegrityHomeTheater.com has seen them together (the projectors that is), as has Shane in NC at http://www.hometheaterdoc.com. Both guys were a pleasue to speak to, very patient and helpful, and have similar and only slightly different opinions on these units. Neither ahd any poo-pooing to do on any other brands. I would recommend you speak to one or both for a more comprehensive opinion, both of which I respect a good deal after our conversations. And I belive both are price competitive as well. What I got out of their collective inputs, but mind you this is my interpretation of their input, not their opinions, per se:

For a controlled (dark) room:
1. Sharp is very good in it's high contrast mode. Shane say's it's dim compared ot the H77. John thinks with total control a Studiotek 130 would be a good match because he also agrees it's not incredibly bright (in high contrast mode), but has a great pic and he likes the projector. Screen size limt of 92-100 inches for best performance I believe. It has the brightness adjustability so you can turn it up if wanted so that's comething to consider. Shane likes it but thinks it's pricey and likes the H77 better, didn't really seem to care for the Sharp (as compared to his preferred H77 in my situation). Since you have the sharp, I'd love to hear any input from you in this respect.

2. H77 could be a comprimise between the Infocus 7205 and the sharp on brightness. Could work with come ambient light but also not really bright and still more suited to a controlled (dark) room and a 100" screen as a good size. I believe both guys thought as for screens the firehawk would be OK in some light and the ST130 in total control room. Shane leaned toward the firehawk. Shane loves this unit, thinks the colors, etc. are great when it's adjusted/calibrated. John thinks it's a great value and a good middle of the road (light conditions wise) projector. Shane felt if blacks were more important, then the firehawk, if more pure white, then the studiotek130, John thought the Dalite Hicontract cinevision (very light gray) might be a good match for this proj when some ambient light would be around, or depending on light conditions. Not as dark as firehawk, but better at low ambient rejection than ST130.

3. 7205. Both guys felt this was a bright projector. If I wanted really bright pics with ambient light it woudl be a good choice. Shane felt this one needed a big screen (135") with a 110" smallest. John also agreed this was good for a 110+ screen and he has one himself. John preferred the Firehawk with his 7205. I got the impression that if I was ever gonna watch the lights up much this would be the one to get if I can have the size. If wife wants bright pic, again this one good. I believe both guys felt this wouldn't give the black levels of the H77 in a controlled room. And with a big screen I need to increase viewing distance appropriately. I don't know how this one would look in the dark. Anyone? Neither guy gave any negative input on it as far as quality goes."

For the H77, there is no doubt that it can handle a 119" screen.

My HT is 100% light controled, but a small amount of ambient light doesnt hurt the picture.

My screen is a Da-Lite 119" Cinema Vision 1.3 gain.

I watched Nascar Saturday night in HD and the football games in HD on Fox yesterday.

The picture was crisp, bright and colorful.

I guess my point of this post is, 119" is perfectly fine for the H77.

Steve

Quite a few compared the Sharp to the H77, me also. The H77 has the blacks like the sharp but is a brighter projector so the contrast has more pop. Colors a very nice on the H77, one if it's finer points.


About the 1.1 no overscan. With testing signals I got zero over scan with the DVI input I'd imagine RGBHV is the same. Component from a panasonic DVD player showed 1% overscan.

Actually zero overscan over DVI could be considered a problem with SDTV over comcast, but not really. The image will display the garbage TV signals can have. But the motorized zoom helps here and the digital shift also. You can zoom the garbage away and use the digital shift to center back the image.
Without the power zoom this would be a real pain. You wanted zero overscan/you got it. :)

Originally posted by hometheaterdoc
read further back in this thread.... I've already posted my thoughts.... err.... actually scott posted some of my thoughts and I confirmed them :)

Thanks. Yes, I had seen that. However I am looking for a more detailed analysis and opinion. Those impressions shared are very general - just basically says that Sharp may be better for a dark room and that one prefers the H77. I appreciate them sharing that.

It would be great to hear more details from someone that's owed both units about how the units compare in terms of the various technical aspects and capabilities (i.e. focus, sharpness, color, controls, options, etc).

Originally posted by hometheaterdoc
For the Luxus Deluxe Screenwall (which I like quite a bit more than the non deluxe screenwall), MSRP is $2336 for a 123" in any of the various fabrics, including studiotek.....

Thanks for the MSRP! Hmmm, at $2336 USD for a 123" Studiotek....I think I'll go with Carada as planned. I doubt the improvement over a Carada, if any, is worth the extra $1400 (approx.)...Stewart owners might disagree...hehe... But "to each his own". :)

Have a good week guys!

Originally posted by guitarman
Quite a few compared the Sharp to the H77, me also. The H77 has the blacks like the sharp but is a brighter projector so the contrast has more pop. Colors a very nice on the H77, one if it's finer points.


Have there been any professional reviews published on the H77? What was the on/off ANSI contrast measured? From what you describe about the extra pop from extra brightness with same black level, that could mean it has a superior CR to the 12K. Considering the 12K was measured near 5000:1 which is obviously considered exceptional within this class of pj, if the H77 was yielding something better I'd be quite interested in it as a possible replacement for my Sharp. Thanks!

Have you seen the review at PC?(http://www.projectorcentral.com/optoma_h77.htm)

Ira, if you want the firmware Wing said your dealer should enter it, or Optoma in Milpitas will do it. The firmware is an upgrade for the letterbox aspect. It will better display non-anamorphic DVD's. You may not need it if you use HTPC or a Player that handles NA material. My Bravo will do this.

The H77 has a RS232 for firmware's, but Wing said the computer entering could be tricky and is best done by the factory or dealer. It was like that with the Seleco I had, home base wanted to do the firmware's.

I wish they'd trust us with our own computers. Wing says yeah but how good is your computer and how good is each user in applying different firmwares. Maybe this is something we can battle with Optoma about. Do you think you could enable the firmware ok?

FWIW: I read as much as I could find about the 3 PJ's mentioned. I threw in some discounting of Guitarmans posts because he was the statistical anomly (likes it too much) - please not even a little offense Tom, I'm hoping I'll be in the same boat soon <big smile> and have appreciated your positive input and helpful tidbits you are extracting from Optoma. I also discounted the projector central's reviewer some because so many folks disagreed with a couple points he made.

I never got to see a 7205 since Infocus had thiers down on Sunday at CEDIA. I have seen the Sharp 12000 locally in all it's iris modes on a relatively small screen (92" firehawk). I duid see the H77 (at CEDIA) on what I'm pretty sure they said was a 110 Grayhawk (confirmed - not fireahawk per sales guy).

Based on all the subjective opinions, and price aside because I was completely willing to purchase any of the 3, I believed the H77 was the best match for me. That said, what I'm shooting for as far as enviroment goes is a picture that will have excellent color, contrast and black levels when I can turn at least most of the ambient light off (this mode for me). I also want a PJ that is bright enough to still have a "watchable" picture in the family room so the 2 young ones can watch Sponge Bob if they want and have enough light to play a the same time.

Also FWIW, based on all the input from Stewart, and H77 opinions, I went with a 110" firehawk screen, larger than I originally planned. With that if I find it's too big for the PJ (or room), I can experiment with a smaller image on a big screen but couldn't go the other way. Shane (www.hometheaterdoc.com) gave me excellent input and then an excellent price to go with it on the Stewart so I figure if I go down in size (unlikely) I can sell it or trade smaller without much loss.

Stewart had a 2-part Studiotek and Firehawk screen display at CEDIA. It reinforced my decision that the Firehawk move was a very good thing. The difference in the projected image was drastic in their shaded viewing booth that had indirect ambient light from the open rear wall.

Hope this is helpful,
Scott

Originally posted by guitarman
Well I guess Evan can't always be right. :) The projector glows. Perfect for Home Theater enviroment.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77trek2.jpg

Re PC review I commented on it with the third post in the thread. I'll amplify, every other user that's had the projector, his first response is it's a brighter projector. Brighter than the Seleco, Marantz and the Sharp in high brightness mode. The last response was from Li-on which I thought was interesting. But he had both projectors in the same room on the same screen. He had the Mits which is the same product.

Originally posted by lovingdvd
Have there been any professional reviews published on the H77? What was the on/off ANSI contrast measured? From what you describe about the extra pop from extra brightness with same black level, that could mean it has a superior CR to the 12K. Considering the 12K was measured near 5000:1 which is obviously considered exceptional within this class of pj, if the H77 was yielding something better I'd be quite interested in it as a possible replacement for my Sharp. Thanks!

Well numbers can be tricky, the only number (also on this thread) was 3450:1 and 1900:1 at D65. And the feeling was with some filter it should be able to get >3000 at d65 and that is very good. The 5000:1 seems very high if you ask me and also not sure if that was at d65.

Daniel.

Originally posted by guitarman
Ira, if you want the firmware Wing said your dealer should enter it, or Optoma in Milpitas will do it. The firmware is an upgrade for the letterbox aspect. It will better display non-anamorphic DVD's. You may not need it if you use HTPC or a Player that handles NA material. My Bravo will do this.

The H77 has a RS232 for firmware's, but Wing said the computer entering could be tricky and is best done by the factory or dealer. It was like that with the Seleco I had, home base wanted to do the firmware's.

I wish they'd trust us with our own computers. Wing says yeah but how good is your computer and how good is each user in applying different firmwares. Maybe this is something we can battle with Optoma about. Do you think you could enable the firmware ok?

Please do, since in europe we at times even need more 'fixes' and they are harder to get to the dealer. Also can you check for me what is the latest firmware. I was told today a new unit would be shipped to me with some new fixes for pal (i guess) so ser. numbers or firmware numbers would be great. infact i think optoma should put them online like infocus does even if we are not allowed to upload ourselfs we atleast need this information to inform the dealer.

Daniel.

Can I assume a Hoya FL-Day filter is needed to boost the red in order to keep the green and blue higher for a better contrast ratio?

Sounds good if it does - I did this with the HT1000 and got a further 300:1 improvement in CR IIRC. I don't think it's possible to get a great deal more than this though, using just a filter. Or is it?

gary.

Cine4home used a yellow filter with the H30 and got D65 from 900.1 to 1800.1. I have an FLD here I could try but contrast has been so good I didn't think I needed anymore.

Tom,
Do you know if warranty work on the H77 (or service) is done in Milpitas?

on a side note,

Does anyone know the average hours a DLP projector will/can last?? 10,000hrs? 20,000hrs? or ?

Obviously you have to change the bulb every 1500-2000 hrs..

Steve

They have a tech repair facility in Milpitas. DLP is such a new technology who knows how long one will last, we hope for ever but I'd imagine a wearable item would be the colorwheel bearing.

Originally posted by lovingdvd
Have there been any professional reviews published on the H77? What was the on/off ANSI contrast measured? From what you describe about the extra pop from extra brightness with same black level, that could mean it has a superior CR to the 12K. Considering the 12K was measured near 5000:1 which is obviously considered exceptional within this class of pj, if the H77 was yielding something better I'd be quite interested in it as a possible replacement for my Sharp. Thanks!

There's no reason to dump the Sharp for another Dark Segment model. They're all so very close. Why not wait for 1080p and super high contrast.

Originally posted by guitarman

About the 1.1 no over scan. With testing signals I got zero over scan with the DVI input I'd imagine RGBHV is the same. Component from a panasonic DVD player showed 1% over scan.

Tom, I appreciate your response, but even "zero over scan" doesn't necessarily mean 1 to 1 pixel mapping.

I really need to see the 720p bitmap rendered and confirm that there is no moire effect. If there is a moire effect, it means that regardless of over scan, it isn't mapping 1 to 1.

Have you hooked up a HTPC to the H77 yet? or are you just going by Avia through the Bravo?

If I could get this one thing confirmed, I would be pretty much ready to pull the trigger and replace my Z9000. But it better be good. Other than blacks and contrast, I am quite happy with the calibrated Hoya'd image my Sharp projects.

Brad

Originally posted by bdavidson
Tom, I appreciate your response, but even "zero over scan" doesn't necessarily mean 1 to 1 pixel mapping.

I really need to see the 720p bitmap rendered and confirm that there is no moire effect. If there is a moire effect, it means that regardless of over scan, it isn't mapping 1 to 1.

Brad

I just checked using DVI input and the Native display mode on H77. There's no moire. There's no any visible scaling by the pj when HTPC set to 1280x720 and pj is in Native, no overscan either. All I see is perfect 1 to 1 image as I'm posting this message from my HTPC.

I never used HTPC just the Bravo at 1280X720p. I thought the Bravo is like HTPC and does 1.1 through DVI. I do notice on the H77 that just native will show zero oversca with the Bravo. 16.9 has a slight overscan added less than 1%, similar to the component feed from the Pany.

Hasn't everybody been doing 1.1 with digital inputs? w/z12000, 12s3, IF7205 etc, why would the H77 be any different?

Expresso, so you get to stay home on Monday also? I got Vertical Limit going right now in native on the Bravo at 720p. This is a 1.85 movie and I get 1" bars at the top and bottom, I geuss this is normal for some 1.85's?

Nice clean image by the way.

Originally posted by guitarman
Expresso, so you get to stay home on Monday also? I got Vertical Limit going right now in native on the Bravo at 720p. This is a 1.85 movie and I get 1" bars at the top and bottom, I geuss this is normal for some 1.85's?

Nice clean image by the way.

Well I took a week off as soon as I got the news of getting my H77 in. I think this baby's worth it! :)
Most 1.85 movies will have bars in Native. I'm used to that since I've had my first pj, the X1, where the bottom bar for some reason was more noticeable, as if the image had excessive top overscan. Only 1.78 HD fills up entire screen with no bars.

Originally posted by guitarman
There's no reason to dump the Sharp for another Dark Segment model. They're all so very close. Why not wait for 1080p and super high contrast.

I have the Sharp 10K. Skipped the 12K upgrade since I wanted to wait until upgrading would make a significant difference. Some say it does, but everyone's standards on what justifies an upgrade is a bit different. So, although I'm still very content with the 10K, I'm interested in replacing it with the next generation Sharp (the 12Ks successor) or equivilent.

I'be be very happy with haivng 3500:1 or higher CR from the 12K. However I'd like to do it at a higher overall brightness/punch factor. Hopefully we'll see pjs within the next year or so that can put out more brightness wihtout sacrificing the blacks so we can see not only improvements in CR but gains in punch as well.

It sounds like the Sharp XVZ-2000 just announced was a break-thru in this regard. IIRC its rated at 2500:1 CR with 1200 lumens. For example, my D65 10K at around 2000:1 puts out half as much light. Then again 2500:1 at 1200 lumens is probably not D65...

Well I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on the H77 and have one final question. Screen material (getting a Stewart). Was heading towards a Studiotek/Ultramatte 1.3, but would like feedback on using a Firehawk. The room is completely light controllable, but often (during the weekend), I leave the back doors open (watching sports). The doors are about 15-16' back from the screen. Some indirect light enters the room in this situation. What do you think? Thanks. SJ

Originally posted by SJHT
I leave the back doors open (watching sports). The doors are about 15-16' back from the screen. Some indirect light enters the room in this situation. What do you think? Thanks. SJ

If there is any ambient light, I would recommend getting a firehawk. I have some recessed lighting in the ceiling over a pool table area about 20+ feet back from my firehawk and it still is washed out a little when the lights are on.

Now granted, my projector isn't as bright as the H77, but it still is a noticeable difference. No good for movies, but for normal TV or sporting events, the picture on the firehawk is watchable when these ceiling canisters medium light output.

Brad

Originally posted by Dark7pt1
Thanks for the MSRP! Hmmm, at $2336 USD for a 123" Studiotek....I think I'll go with Carada as planned. I doubt the improvement over a Carada, if any, is worth the extra $1400 (approx.)...Stewart owners might disagree...hehe... But "to each his own". :)

Have a good week guys!

While I can't speak for Carada as they are direct and I am not a dealer, I can say that I originally never believed the hype surrounding screens.... I was a big DIY screen guy for the longest time and thought that there couldn't possibly be that much difference in picture quality between screens.....Save the bucks because it's just a waste of money for those expensive screen types....

when you actually see the difference in person, it tends to change your mind.... I'm now a big Stewart convert, and it has nothing to do with price....

Well I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on the H77 and have one final question. Screen material (getting a Stewart). Was heading towards a Studiotek/Ultramatte 1.3, but would like feedback on using a Firehawk. The room is completely light controllable, but often (during the weekend), I leave the back doors open (watching sports). The doors are about 15-16' back from the screen. Some indirect light enters the room in this situation. What do you think? Thanks. SJ

If you have ambient light at all, the Firehawk is the better choice. If you have non dark walls, the Firehawk is the better choice... you do give up purity in the whites because you are projecting onto a grey screen, but the ambient light rejection and the stray light rejection of the screen are very noticable compared to a white screen unless you are in a totally dedicated space with appropriately controlled reflected light... I labored over this decision with my H77 demo room and ultimately am very glad I chose the Firehawk for that setup. The bonus is that it's also a great demo tool to show how much light you can introduce into the room without complete detriment to the projected image....

I'm a newbie at all of this but the one thing I can say without reservation is if you have any ambient light every, get the firehawk. At the CEDIA show they had a split-fabric screen with the studiotek on one side and the firehawk on the other (one screen - 2 materials 50/50). The difference was stunning. I would have never imagined it would be as efficient at blocking the ambient light. I was impressed. If you had a 100% dark room all the time, I couldnt' say so definitavely, but with any ambient ever, I wouldn't consider anything else after seeing that demo.

Cheers,
Scott

Originally posted by doubleespresso
I just checked using DVI input and the Native display mode on H77. There's no moire. There's no any visible scaling by the pj when HTPC set to 1280x720 and pj is in Native, no over scan either. All I see is perfect 1 to 1 image as I'm posting this message from my HTPC.

Thanks, Thats exactly what I wanted to hear. I didn't realize that there was a native mode. So knowing that, I expect that in native mode it will do 1 to 1 pixel mapping. So if I am speculating correctly:

- Native will to a 1 to 1 without over scan or additional scaling. (whatever resolution you send it will be displayed centered in the DMD)
- Window will show 4x3 with borders on the left and right sides. (Some over scan)
- 16x9 is basically for anamorphic material. Stretched left to right. Sometimes called Full Mode (Some Over scan)
- Letterbox will zoom a 4x3 picture to chop off the top and bottom. Designed to watch non anamorphic DVDs. (Some Over scan)

Here is another question:

When in native mode, are any of the Picture, Image, or display controls disabled?


Thanks again,

Brad

Originally posted by guitarman
I never used HTPC just the Bravo at 1280X720p. I thought the Bravo is like HTPC and does 1.1 through DVI. I do notice on the H77 that just native will show zero overscan with the Bravo. 16.9 has a slight overscan added less than 1%, similar to the component feed from the Pany.

Tom,

My only concern was that using the Bravo wasn't necessarily a test that would confirm what I was looking for. Without displaying the specific on-off pixel pattern, determining a 1 to 1 (or native) mode might not be easy.

I also wasn't aware there was a native picture mode.

I do appreciate all the information you have provided so far. I guess I will just need to get one in house and check for myself. I still have some reservations about picture quality that nothing other that seeing with my own eyes will answer. Know what I mean?

Brad

I checked pixel cropping in native mode thru DVI and there's zero cropping. Adjustments are the same for 16.9. You get Bright, contrast, sharpness, gamma. No color, no tint. The projector lets you use all the aspects no matter what signal, HDTV whatever.

Originally posted by scotthorton
I'm a newbie at all of this but the one thing I can say without reservation is if you have any ambient light every, get the firehawk. At the CEDIA show they had a split-fabric screen with the studiotek on one side and the firehawk on the other (one screen - 2 materials 50/50). The difference was stunning. I would have never imagined it would be as efficient at blocking the ambient light. I was impressed. If you had a 100% dark room all the time, I couldnt' say so definitavely, but with any ambient ever, I wouldn't consider anything else after seeing that demo.

Cheers,
Scott

Thanks. I have been borderline Firehawk and this does it. SJ.

Originally posted by bdavidson

Here is another question:

When in native mode, are any of the Picture, Image, or display controls disabled?



As far as I can tell the controls are identical to the other modes (16:9 specifically.)

A question I have regarding controls is, when using DVI it looks to me that even though I can change sharpness (from 1 to 5) changing it doesn't seem to do anything to the image. No effect whatsoever. Is it supposed to be like this? When using an analog input, on the other hand, the sharpness control works as expected.

Moving the Sharpness with DVI has a very noticable effect when I use it. If fact I double checked what it does because a couple said my pictures were too sharp. I left it at 3 anyway. :)

Tom,

Since you have been able to produce some pretty good photos of your H77 display, could you take one more for me?

Can you take a photo of a gray scale gradient from Avia? Not just a 10 step IRE pattern, but a full 100+ step gray scale gradient. I believe Avia and DVE have patterns like this.

Thanks,

Brad

Here's some grayscale shots, these were taken this morning down resed to 800X600 and mostly when I take shots in the day they can look a little grainy. There's daylight in the room. I can see all the stuff I have in every corner. Hand in front of face/everything :)

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77gray1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77gray2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77gray3.jpg

Optoma Red
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77santa.jpg

OT,
Who is the dude in the middle, I know the other two guys?
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/markbell.jpg
Can u believe that Mark is an old friend of mine, hell of a drummer and a Video enthusiast also. Maybe I should get him to join AVS.

Tom

Sad to say I actually know this one. The individual is Mike Monroe from Finnish band Hanoi Rocks. I was a huge fan of theirs in the mid-80s, when they were starting to take off in the UK. Unfortunately, they toured the US in about 85 I think, where their drummer, Razzle was killed in a car crash when being driven by Vince Neil from Motley Crue, so they split up. Shame really, I was gutted at the time. They were a punk metal band before the genre really took off, sort of proto Guns and Roses (who seemed to rip a lot of their image from them). Great tunes for then. Coulda bin a contenda.

Do we have any Fins out their who want to add more on their nation's favourite band, or just a load of people thinking 'what does Finnish mean?'

Mike Monroe and the original guitarist/songwriter reformed recently and did a tour of the UK earlier this year.

Slightly off-topic there! Errr Tom, what's quieter: the H77 in eco mode, or a cat purring on your lap?
:D

Squibbly

PS Tom, you now appear to have removed the link I was referring to above. Let me know that you've read this and I'll take it all off.

Originally posted by guitarman
Cine4home used a yellow filter with the H30 and got D65 from 900.1 to 1800.1. I have an FLD here I could try but contrast has been so good I didn't think I needed anymore.

Wow - that's quite an increase from what I would say is a dissapointing initial D65 CR. Got a link for the result? I did look but can't find it.

TIA

Gary.

Gary, do a google search with cine4home the translation link falls at the top.

Squibbly, I put it back, at first I didn't want to confuse people but the picture was bothering me. Thx
Fun picture if you can't figure out who the guy on the right is, think Soprano's

The H77 is much quieter than a stepped on cat.

Originally posted by guitarman
Here's some grayscale shots, these were taken this morning down resed to 800X600 and mostly when I take shots in the day they can look a little grainy. There's daylight in the room. I can see all the stuff I have in every corner. Hand in front of face/everything :)

Thanks for the photos... If I may ask, it doesn't look like there is a difference between 0 and 10 IRE in the photos, Is black actually being crushed or is it just the photos? When you looking at the screen, can you see a difference between 0 and 10 IRE with your eyes? Maybe the black level on your DVD player is set to 7.5 instead of 0?

Now I have to go home and check my projector to see If the 9k will resolve a difference between 0 and 10 IRE.

Brad

Yes I looked for that this morning. You can see the shade difference and line between the low IRE's live.

The grayscale is pretty much stock with a Pany XP30. If I moved any of the RGB"s it was 1 or 2 clicks.

For the 9k you should search for some of Ran's posts on service tweaks.

Originally posted by guitarman
For the 9k you should search for some of Ran's posts on service tweaks.

Oh trust me, I know how to tweak my Sharp. :-) Colorfacts, a hoya filter, and service menu access will do wonders.

Its been a difficult projector to give up. I thought my setup was better than an in store demo of a 10k. Wasn't really impressed with the black level improvements compared to my hoya'd 9k.

Haven't seen a 12k or h77 yet. Although I was quite impressed with a NEC HT1000 I saw a year or so back, the resolution left me lacking. Very bright and vibrant though.

I really have to find a place to demo a H77 locally. Either I'm going to stick with Sharp and by a 12k (where I can use the same mount and mounting position) or get something along the lines of a H77. Maybe I can hold out till November when the new less expensive Sharp becomes available, but I would guess that the lack of lens shift and other possible features would have me stick in the H77 or 12k realm.

Most of the time I just think, "just about everything out now should be better than my 9k". But you never know. The only complaints I have about my 9k are black level & contrast, lack of some brightness, and a dvi input. The ability for me to bypass the internal scalar has allowed me to perform wonders to the picture with an outboard scaler. Most of the time, it just amazes me how great very colorful films look on this thing. Unfortunately, most scifi films are pretty dark.

Brad

Im sure people are wondering how I can be so satisfied with my 9k. So, here are all the my theater caviats which help...

1. Full light controlled room.
2. Ox Blood Red walls and ceiling.
3. Firehawk.

http://www.go-racecar.com/HTStuff/theater/

The H77 did nicely when we a/b'ed directly with the HT1000. It was just allot deeper yet still bright. With HDTV there was a sizable difference. I don't know if this is possible but I swear it got brighter. I watched HD- football all day Sunday with light all over the room and it still had plenty of contrast. That's HDTV

I know your way of thinking. I do the same, I'll tack on how much I'll be out of pocket for the upgrade and if it's small enough I'll do it.

Originally posted by guitarman
The H77 did nicely when we a/b'ed directly with the HT1000. It was just allot deeper yet still bright. With HDTV there was a sizable difference. I don't know if this is possible but I swear it got brighter. I watched HD- football all day Sunday with light all over the room and it still had plenty of contrast. That's HDTV

I know your way of thinking. I do the same, I'll tack on how much I'll be out of pocket for the upgrade and if it's small enough I'll do it.

Hiya guitarman,

Thanks for doing the a/b test with the NEC HT1000! I'm actually considering the 1100 vs. the BenQ 8700. But have been curious to know how the H77 stacks up against more "affordable" competition. My buddy from the Netherlands just ordered his H77. He's posted on this forum once or twice I believe. Daniel. Any how, I don't suppose you could some day get hold of a BenQ 8700, do an a/b test and take pics? Did you manage to take screenshots using your H77 and the HT1000?

Was VERY impressed with the screenshots you posted at the start of this thread!! Pics of Gandalf, Hellboy, 5th Element...et. all were wicked! What camera did you use to achieve such KickA pics?

Nite.

I'm still a bit confused about why we would be comparing the H77 with the HT1000? I though the H77 was considerably more expensive than the HT1000?

Based on a google search, the H77 seems to be streeting at about twice the price of the updated HT1100.

I am considering a HT1100, and based on it's excellant black level, and 3500:1 CR (with the iris closed), and the highly regarded overall image quality of the NEC's, the HT1100 (or the cheaper HT1000's currently available), still looks like the best bang for the buck at that DLP street price band?

Am I correct here? As I would certainly hope that a HD2+ based 8 segment color wheel DLP, that costs up to twice the price of the street NEC price, should be better!

But from a purely "bang for buck" point of view, aren't we talking about two completely seperate budget levels? ie: The HT1100 probably owns this title in the sub $4K "street price" band, and the H77 probably owns the title in a much higher price band. Just like the InFocus X1 owned this title in the under $2K price band (or perhaps even under $3K price band?).

Personally I think the comparsion we are waiting for at the HT1000 price level, is the new Sharp 2000 versus the HT1100, to see if this new HD2+ will take the title away from NEC at the sub $4K street price level?

Although, at first look the NEC still seems to win on black level and CR, based on the Sharp 2000 specs.

Greg

G'Day Greg,

I haven't seen an H77 up against an HT-1100 at the same time, but I'm able to compare the HT-1100 with a PD Action Model One HD2+ at any time.
Infact I switch between them on a constant basis to remind me just how good the NEC is.
Sure the Action presents a more dynamic image than the HT, and I would say more headroom at the white top-end, but this is to be expected on specification alone, BUT please let me say that I will still back the HT-1100 as one of the best all-round projectors that I have seen, mate it's a bloody beauty.
So, back to your point about comparing the NEC with the H77. I will disagree with you on this.
Infact I will go on the record as saying that put anything in the range of double the price on the same playing field as the HT-1100 and I'm sure most people on this forum will (even if silently to themselves) be amazed.
The main objectionable thing one still hears about the NEC's, is the apparent lack of lumens to allow the lights to be switched on, but hey, if there's enough light output to suit the environment at the users' end, surely that's fine.
I've got a 20' long room, with an 8' diagonal DaLite Matt White and it's fully illuminated in "eco" mode.

P.S. The HT-1100 contrast is still the best I've seen and is slightly better than the "Action"

The only reason we were talking about the HT1000 is because I had one and Craig brought his over for a comparison. Wasn't planned as a debate. Money wise yes you have to be willing to drop a couple of thousand extra bucks over the the HT1100. It's the same old end of story though. The extra money gets you better HDTV and a dedicated native 16.9, some more detail.
Sorta like shopping for Rolex's, do I want the All stainless Submariner or the Two Tone. :) Both are great.

Hey Tom,

The Rolex's are usually priced well, here in Singapore

Originally posted by Dark7pt1
Hiya guitarman,

Thanks for doing the a/b test with the NEC HT1000! I'm actually considering the 1100 vs. the BenQ 8700. But have been curious to know how the H77 stacks up against more "affordable" competition. My buddy from the Netherlands just ordered his H77. He's posted on this forum once or twice I believe. Daniel. Any how, I don't suppose you could some day get hold of a BenQ 8700, do an a/b test and take pics? Did you manage to take screenshots using your H77 and the HT1000?

Was VERY impressed with the screenshots you posted at the start of this thread!! Pics of Gandalf, Hellboy, 5th Element...et. all were wicked! What camera did you use to achieve such KickA pics?

Nite.

Screenshots are easy, just have a dark room, no flash, tripod the camera and center up close as possible to the screen. I'm using an Olympus D-550. It's just 3mega pixels and point & shoot. You have two HD2+'s now at the lower price to choose from. Still the PJ's with the new colorwheel are all going to be quite allot more. Even within the Sharp's ranks, they have the Z2000 at 4k and the Z12000 phew! substantially higher.

Same deal, you want that Rolex President or the 2-tone Datejust. :)

Originally posted by guitarman
Screenshots are easy, just have a dark room, no flash, tripod the camera and center up close as possible to the screen. I'm using an Olympus D-550. It's just 3mega pixels and point & shoot. You have two HD2+'s now at the lower price to choose from. Still the PJ's with the new colorwheel are all going to be quite allot more. Even within the Sharp's ranks, they have the Z2000 at 4k and the Z12000 phew! substantially higher.

Same deal, you want that Rolex President or the 2-tone Datejust. :)

Hiya guitarman,

Taking decent shots "should" be easy but I've seen my share of disasters. And I think from cameras with a higher MP count. Not sure what they did wrong or if it was their cameras. Heh!!

Any how, I'll most likely stick with a 4k projector like the BenQ 8700 ($5400 CAD) or the NEC 1100 ($4900 CAD) or the upcoming Sharp xzv2000 (est msrp $3500 USD)...as the H77 is practically 2x as expensive ($9800 CAD) up here in Toronto. Though, I could consider ordering from AVS. Will have to wait and see...

Any how, if you ever get your hands on a BenQ 8700...be great if you could take some screenshots comparing them to the H77.

Later Tom.

I have tested both 8700+ and H77 and from a price point the 8700+ is a winner, but the H77 is a better pj in every way. It's a lot quiter, has better colors, better black level and better contrast. If you can afford the price difference go for the H77. Btw, I am getting my H77 tomorrow. Came airborne from England today. They have been in England some time waiting for software update before they were sent to the customers. Can't wait to test it and see if they got the harch Pal software from the premodel sorted out.

Plenty in Europe now, good news. Let us know how the video looks and how it all sorts out.

Originally posted by guitarman
Plenty in Europe now, good news. Let us know how the video looks and how it all sorts out.
plenty? Europe's first "final" H77 was sent to me from england yesterday and arrived norway today. The total amount in the first batch was 12 units.. luckily a new batch will arrive soon

And I and a colleague have got 2 of that first batch :) Ours will be with us tomorrow. Yippee!!! Hope the wait was worth it.

Originally posted by jfinneru
I have tested both 8700+ and H77 and from a price point the 8700+ is a winner, but the H77 is a better pj in every way. It's a lot quiter, has better colors, better black level and better contrast. If you can afford the price difference go for the H77. Btw, I am getting my H77 tomorrow. Came airborne from England today. They have been in England some time waiting for software update before they were sent to the customers. Can't wait to test it and see if they got the harch Pal software from the premodel sorted out.

Hello Jfinneru,

I'm sure the H77 is a better DLP projector. But as I mentioned before the H77 is almost 2x as expensive as the BenQ 8700 here in Toronto. I guess it would have to depend how good a deal I can get for the H77 from AVSforum. I'm sure I could save a frew thousand buying from AVS vs buying locally.

Meanwhile the BenQ 8700 at almost 50% less is still a very good projector. I don't think you'd notice the difference unless you had a chance to do an a/b test in the same room with the same setup. H77 versus the 8700. I meant if you saw the H77 in one shop and then saw the BenQ 8700 in another shop.

Decisions, decisions... :))

Thanks for your input though!

Looks like that smearing thing has been cleaned up. At least the tech here says so.
You should be good to go. If you see a menu option (colorspace) put it to auto. Mine was first at YUV and I got a green picture/no color. Moving to RGB or auto took care of it. I was told those are for different markets Austrailia for one.

Thanks Tom. I'm sure I'll let people know what a UK H77 is like, if I can drag myself away from it tomorrow evening :)

Originally posted by Dark7pt1
Hello Jfinneru,

I'm sure the H77 is a better DLP projector. But as I mentioned before the H77 is almost 2x as expensive as the BenQ 8700 here in Toronto. I guess it would have to depend how good a deal I can get for the H77 from AVSforum. I'm sure I could save a frew thousand buying from AVS vs buying locally.

Meanwhile the BenQ 8700 at almost 50% less is still a very good projector. I don't think you'd notice the difference unless you had a chance to do an a/b test in the same room with the same setup. H77 versus the 8700. I meant if you saw the H77 in one shop and then saw the BenQ 8700 in another shop.

Decisions, decisions... :))

Thanks for your input though!
We did a a/b test ( not simultaniously, but we tested 10 different projectors at home under the same conditions) The Benq 8700+ is indeed a very nice projector with a very nice price tag on it. Actually our test winner was the benq 7800. this model gives the best picture for the money. But when we took the picture quality alone, the winner was PD MkII with H77 right behind

It will be hard to do, the wife is always like are you stay in there all night :)

I have had mine 3 weeks and I have over 50 hrs on it :)

Steve

Just last night I was crashing while watching a movie on the H77. Didnt' trust my wife to handle the power down on all the equipment. So I moved the movie over to a 30" tube HDTV. lol She said forget it I can't watch the movie on that thing. How times have changed. :)

I'm at 300hrs, no problems.

Originally posted by jfinneru
We did a a/b test ( not simultaniously, but we tested 10 different projectors at home under the same conditions) The Benq 8700+ is indeed a very nice projector with a very nice price tag on it. Actually our test winner was the benq 7800. this model gives the best picture for the money. But when we took the picture quality alone, the winner was PD MkII with H77 right behind

Hello jfinneru,

What is a PD MkII? Can't say I'm familiar with that projector.

The 8700 didn't win the "best bang for the buck" category? How did the 7800 win over it?

Next time you have such a shootout take some pics! Same 3-4 frames from the same few films. Would be very interesting to see if we could spot any differences. Just a friendly suggestion. :)

...

Hello,

It's interesting how pricing can be so varied from place to place (countries).
Over here, Manila, the BenQ8700+ is about $7k, the Optoma H77 at mid $4k, while the NEC HT1100 at mid $3K.

I must be in the right place for the Optoma H77 :)

Thanks Tom for the tech info on H77.

...

Originally posted by Mr. EZ
...

Hello,

It's interesting how pricing can be so varied from place to place (countries).
Over here, Manila, the BenQ8700+ is about $7k, the Optoma H77 at mid $4k, while the NEC HT1100 at mid $3K.

I must be in the right place for the Optoma H77 :)

Thanks Tom for the tech info on H77.

...

Hey that isn't right!! :) It's the Canadians that should be getting that kind of pricing!! Hehe!! Mid 4k for a H77? And mid 3k for a NEC 1100??? Damnnnn...you know...Xmas is coming up and.... joking! :)

Are you getting a H77? I certainly would if I were you. Do you know where your H77s are made? Curious...