...

I guess at that price it's a steal for us here. Will go for it, H77!

The H77 is being sold here is made in Taiwan, aren't they all?

...

Originally posted by jfinneru
plenty? Europe's first "final" H77 was sent to me from england yesterday and arrived norway today. The total amount in the first batch was 12 units.. luckily a new batch will arrive soon

Yeah i can confirm this im also 'delayed' for about 2 weeks until new units come in from somewhere next week. These 12 to 25 numbers total is also what i have been hearing in the Netherlands.

Greetings,

Daniel.

Let us hope that the meagre trickle into PAL land heralds a flood.

12 to 25 units!

Feedback on PAL performance would be deeply appreciated.

Originally posted by Fishhooks
Infact I will go on the record as saying that put anything in the range of double the price on the same playing field as the HT-1100 and I'm sure most people on this forum will (even if silently to themselves) be amazed.
The main objectionable thing one still hears about the NEC's, is the apparent lack of lumens to allow the lights to be switched onHiya Fishhooks,

I'm 9 months down the track and I'm once again tempted to pull the trigger on a HT1100 to upgrade my X1. Now I read that a H77 can be had for ~US$4500 in the phillipines??? What about from Singapore?
At this price, it's only $1000 more than the HT1100 from our Singapore friends, so would be a logical choice. Do you know where we can source at that price?

If the H77 is no-go at that price, I'm back to HT1100 or waiting once again to see what the Sharp 2000 reviews like (although it doesn't match the 3500:1 CR of either the HT1100 or the H77).

PS: Your comment about lack of Lumens on the NEC doesn't really make sense. If the lights are on you would just open up the iris for plenty of brightness compared to some other DLP's. With some ambient light the lower CR with the iris open would be irrelevant. Then of course there is also high power for a full 1100 lumens!

Greg

Originally posted by John Alison
Let us hope that the meagre trickle into PAL land heralds a flood.

12 to 25 units!

Feedback on PAL performance would be deeply appreciated.

The first Belgian unit (with the newest software on it) will arrive today, more units to come in the following week... I will give it a full "PAL" test ride this weekend, and i'll keep you posted ! :)

I wish there were more units available, but from what i've heard the Taiwan factory has a hard time in following-up all the pre-orders. This situation will be better in about a month, i think.

nope,

the H77 is not so cheap in Singapore. I dunno how the philippines got it so cheap but in Singapore the price is only slightly cheaper than the US. Around maybe US$5.3k b4 tax.

The HT1100 is around US$3.5k BUT WITHOUT the anamorphic lens.

anyway I have bought the H77 and now waiting for my new place to be done up :)

Hi Greg & alantkh:

Greg,
I wasn't really being serious re the light output of the HT-1100, it's fine and handles any situation I have seen it in, and mainly on "eco"
A while back in defending the very bright InFocus 5700, some on this forum were taking the subject matter away from the beautiful picture quality of the NEC, by saying it wasn't very bright!
I could say that I will slip over to Manila and pick up a 77 for you, but it will alone use up all of my baggage allowance!

alantkh,
I'm in Singapore at present, I'll do some checking around for Greg re the H77. It's way too big for my liking (I move these things around) compared to some little beasts that produce what I think will be near equal to it (+ or -)
Do you know where some H77's are living, Artcoustics won't have any for several weeks and I know where a Mitsubishi 2000 is, but without even seeing it and the 77 tested together, I'm not keen on the 300 or so less lumens of the Mitsub. even though it seems to have some other redeeming features over the 77.
I think also many are waiting on the PAL results of the Optoma and Mitsub.

P.S. re pricing, I think you will also find Jakarta is much cheaper than Singapore for most projectors, if you are game enough to go there, then again, Manila....................???

Fishhooks,

I think artcoustics (econ-av) is the sole distributor for the H77. I got mine from there. I thought they have it set up in Novena Square? But I thought their showroom is not very well done as too much light.

I thought the pricing is pretty ok on the H77 in Singapore. At least it is cheaper in Singapore than the US. I don't know why the 8700 is selling more expensive here that US. After all it is made in Taiwan which is pretty close by.

Where is the Mitsubishi 2000 in Singapore? I may want to check it out.

Originally posted by dasithlord
The first Belgian unit (with the newest software on it) will arrive today, more units to come in the following week... I will give it a full "PAL" test ride this weekend, and i'll keep you posted ! :)

I wish there were more units available, but from what i've heard the Taiwan factory has a hard time in following-up all the pre-orders. This situation will be better in about a month, i think.

Let us know how it goes because a member here in the UK just got one and says he has the posturing problem. I told him about the firmware, maybe his didn't get it.
thx

I tested mine before I went to work, and the smearing problem is just the same as on the premodel. disapointed! They kept the H77 in england for a couple of weeks to fix and install new firmware, and then they send it out almost worse than the premodel.
Progressive and dvi was suberb, but interlaced it's a mystery. the colors are off by a mile and they are not possible to correct . in progressive and dvi the colors are beautyful. How someone can claim that the deinterlacing on this thing is as good as faroudja is a big mystery

Originally posted by jfinneru
I tested mine before I went to work, and the smearing problem is just the same as on the premodel. disapointed! They kept the H77 in england for a couple of weeks to fix and install new firmware, and then they send it out almost worse than the premodel.
Progressive and dvi was suberb, but interlaced it's a mystery. the colors are off by a mile and they are not possible to correct . in progressive and dvi the colors are beautyful. How someone can claim that the deinterlacing on this thing is as good as faroudja is a big mystery

Sounds just like Messiah's problem with interlaced, he has smearing and posturing. Said he's having overscan with DVI also. His firmware is
v.c11 02 Sept 2004.

He's got a call into the UK tech area. Are there any menu hits for PAL or anything under User 1 for (auto-RGB/YUV)? If so see what they can do. How about the Phase slider under the signal menu's if it's not whited out?

Thank goodness. I am not the only one.

jfinneru - mine turned up this morning and I have been tearing my hair out due to how bad it is via interlaced. It's not bad, it's appalling. I am hoping to get my unit back to Optoma either tomorrow or early next week as there is no way I am living with this if they cannot fix it. I will buy another S3 and put up with the fan noise as this is appalling. Real shame cos it's lovely and quiet (Blue power light is a pian though, but nothing some insulation tape won't fix)

The blue power light goes off after a litle while. Try native aspect on DVI, it has no overscan. Messiah do your progressive and DVI signals look good like jfinneru's?

jfinneru, what's happening with the color for an interlaced signal? Take a look at a grayscale pattern (zero-IRE to 100-IRE) see is the Advanced RGB adjustments can help the grays. Are you getting smearing on pans?

An interlaced pic looks really washed out and not at all vibrant on mine. Looks horrible along with the posterisation/clay face/temporal dithering, whatever you call it.

NTSC Progressive does look good but still no where near as smooth as my S3 was.

Clever with the power light. Mine has been on for about an hour and it is still glowing like a beacon. How long should it take to go off?

i will need to test some more when I get home from work. for examle to check the firmware number etc. the smearing is very notisable on pans. the weird thing is that when I switch to xbox or sat tuner, it doesn't look to bad

Another thing. I also have a green and purple tinge to edges of solid colours. You can see it in this image taken from about 3ft away from the screen. Anyone got this.

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~wattsn/h77tinge.jpg

I've got the H77(E) in my hands, will be testing it out tomorrow. I will try dvd progressive and interlaced (marantz 4300) and also 1080i using D-Theater tapes... Do you think the smearing problem and "washed out" image would also appear using 1080i ?

I'll let you know how it goes here, and if these problems appear on my machine.

This one should be the first "real" european unit from the first shipment, not a pre-production one. It's serial number ends with 007, i guess it's the sevent unit that left the factory ? I cross my fingers, ill post my findings in less then 24h.

Greetings,

dasithlord

Originally posted by guitarman
The blue power light goes off after a litle while.

My unit has been on for about 2 hours now and the blue power light is still glowing. Is there a menu option to set this to go off or is this another thing that's been messed up with the new PAL firmware?

the power light doesn't go off at all. not on the premodel and not on the """"final""""" version. what were they thinking about when they put that blue light in to the unit? It's so bright it actually lower the contrast on this thing.

No option, it's just automatic on my H77. Never timed it buy it goes off pretty quick.

You might try the grayscale techniques I sent you to tune the Advanced RGB's. Find pattern like this on your calibration DVD, or even a needle pulse or pluge pattern with 4 or 5 steps of gray. Delete color in gray.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77gray1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77gray2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77gray3.jpg


Most of you may already know how to tweak the grayscale, just thought I'd throw that out just in case.

btw, I tested an ntsc disc now, and the smearing is the same as on the pal disc. My firmware is also v.c11 02 Sept 2004. also took a closer look when projecting a television image, and it's just the same thing there. Let's hope they manage to get the software on the spot.

Yep, I am seeing all interlaced signals (DVD or Sky TV) showing the same problems. Progressive and DVI seem OK.

Are you saying NTSC via Progressive has the same problem on yours or via interlaced only?

My blue light never shuts off either. Would be nice if it did!

Originally posted by Cactus Matt
My blue light never shuts off either. Would be nice if it did!

Maybe it's one of the choices I made in the Display menu, I'll test it.

On my Pio 504 the 868 is absolutely stunning and I wish I could say the same about the H77. Unfortunately, I can’t. When connected via HDMI or component the picture loses all it’s vibrancy and has absolutely no punch whatsoever. Not only that but the temporal dithering (if that’s what we’re calling it) is worse than I have ever seen. No, probably about as bad as plain interlaced that I complained about earlier. The start of 2Fast 2Furious where you have lots of people milling about in the car park is just a mess. And that’s the same whether outputting interlaced or progressive.

If you have the disc, check the bit at the beginning just after where the guy comes off the phone walking out of the garage bay entrance. To start with the red tool box in the background is horrible with real processing problems displaying the silver bars to the top of the drawers. On the S3 (yes, I know, I said I wouldn’t reminisce but) those were smooth as silk. Now the nasty bit. A girl walks down between two cars wearing a skimpy chain mail like dress. The camera moves from right to left while she walks from left to right and disappears out of the picture. Watch her body and right arm (your left) as she comes across screen. On the H77 via the 868 (576i interlaced or 576/720 progressive) it is just a horrible mushy yuck, all breaking up.

The only thing I can pit this down to is that the processors in both the H77 and the 868 are pretty dire. I have checked the disc on the HTPC via Theatertek (displayed on the TFT monitor) and that plays just fine (as can be expected for a moving, panning shot) so can’t be low bit rate on the disc.

I can’t help thinking how much better this H77 would be if they had put some Faroudja processing in side it. As it is, I’m sorry to say, but the Pixelworks scaler (or whatever they are using) is a joke. Although I temper that with the fact that my 2F2F is a R2 version so may be suffering from the same PAL issues. It’s too late and I’m too tired now to be trying a R1 disc but fair to say that even my Tosh SD900 plays a R1 disc (outputting PS) very well, so all this may indeed just be down to the PAL issue which we need to get fixed. Without a fix, for me at least, this PJ is a non starter and will be going back, despite how quiet it is.

Well, I've had it for today. I'm going to bed rather disappointed. Some things about the H77 are just great (brightness, noise) but others are just plain awful. I just hope all of these image issues will be fixed with a new firmware.

Keep working with Justin in the UK, he's the guy that should be able to sort it out. I guess you never talked to him.
Hopefully tomorrow you'll find out. I thought this thing was sorted out, someone with the Mits said it was fixed for PAL, even had a menu spot to choose the signal.

Originally posted by Messiah
Another thing. I also have a green and purple tinge to edges of solid colours. You can see it in this image taken from about 3ft away from the screen. Anyone got this.At this extreme close-up range of this shot, you can clearly see the individual DMD mirrors. The green and blue color tinges on the edges of the mirrors (or apparent minor "misconvergence"), will be an optical issue.

ie: As a single chip DLP cannot have misconvergence (as such), what I believe you are seeing is the slight difference in the bending of the light path of the different primary colors, as they pass through the lens.

Although I'm certainly no expert on optics, I would assume the extent of this is no doubt related to the quality of the optical lens used, and therefore may not be seen to the same extent on all DLP projectors?

Greg

Right the blue power light on the side does stay on. It's the several green lights that go off. If the one blue light is trouble you could cover it with a velcro strip of something similar. I never noticed it because my PJ is a few feet behind my viewing spot. The green light I noticed, they come on when you use the remote each time gut quickly go off.

Would it be fair to say that using an external scaler and outputting a 1:1 pixel mapped 720p signal would alleviate most of these issues Messiah has reported?

Cheers,
Andy

Hey Mr Kiwi, guess U want me to hold off getting this machine for U until the PAL issues are fixed??
What a shame to be talking of external processing on a machine that's barely seen the light of day!
I saw the Mitsubishi in Australia a few weeks back with a PAL signal and thought some of the issues being reported here applied to it as well!

alantkh:

The Mits. is at Mediaplex @ Funan.
With all these reports, I'll try to get a PAL demo there today.
Do you visit "Extreme Place"

P.S. I took a look at a H56A at Artcoustic this morning, this is still a fine machine, very like the HT-1100, slightly richer colour and a longer throw for those who need!

Originally posted by Messiah
An interlaced pic looks really washed out and not at all vibrant on mine. Looks horrible along with the posterisation/clay face/temporal dithering, whatever you call it.

NTSC Progressive does look good but still no where near as smooth as my S3 was.

Clever with the power light. Mine has been on for about an hour and it is still glowing like a beacon. How long should it take to go off?

Maybe a weird question but why are you feeding it interlace ? Im guessing for other sources ?, also have you considered adding a iscanHD+ since that will solve most/all problems you are having.

edit: reading more comments, Does anyone want to make a guess on how much things will improve
with a good external scaler over dvi ?. The reason i am asking is that most fingerpointing is going to the sub-par scaler inside the H77. Ifso is anyway trying that? I also have a new iscanHD on order but that will not start shipping in a month so can't really test maybe someone else can ?

Daniel.

European H77 with HTPC analogue RGBHV anyone, please?

Originally posted by KoolKiwi
At this extreme close-up range of this shot, you can clearly see the individual DMD mirrors. The green and blue color tinges on the edges of the mirrors (or apparent minor "misconvergence"), will be an optical issue.

ie: As a single chip DLP cannot have misconvergence (as such), what I believe you are seeing is the slight difference in the bending of the light path of the different primary colors, as they pass through the lens.

Although I'm certainly no expert on optics, I would assume the extent of this is no doubt related to the quality of the optical lens used, and therefore may not be seen to the same extent on all DLP projectors?

Greg

Thanks Greg. Another forum member friend of mine (Ian Guinan) also concluded this is 'chromatic aberration' due to the optics. With the other issues this pj has I don't think it will be an issue cos it looks like it will be going back anyway :(

Originally posted by danielo
Maybe a weird question but why are you feeding it interlace ?

Quite simply because I do not have a scaler to process the Sky image outboard of the pj. Also, having paid over £3k (uk pounds) I would not expect to have to pay more money to fix these artefacts. To me a scaler would be to improve an already good picture not to fix issues which are clearly problems with the pj.

Originally posted by Fishhooks
Hey Mr Kiwi, guess U want me to hold off getting this machine for U until the PAL issues are fixed??Hi Fishhooks,
Yep, all this talk of PAL issues with the new H77, just makes me even more convinced to go with the tried and proven HT1100.

Firstly there is the excellant price of the HT1100 from our Singapore friends (who still have the free freight offer to NZ). Plus, I'm not convinced that even the new Sharp 2000 (possibly at a similar price point, but lower 2500:1 CR) will necessarily be a better choice. Also, take into account the importance of 4:3 aspect ratio in a country like New Zealand, that doesn't even have a roadmap for HDTV!

Given the above, and the highly regarded and proven image quality of the HT1100 (for the price), I'm thinking that a HT1100 will probably be a very good choice to see me through until the day that true 1920x1080p >5000:1 CR Digital Projectors are available at a reasonable price. Even though this might still be >5 years away or more.

Although the H77 specs sound good, with the current PAL issue not helping to boost confidence, and the much higher price for me to purchase, do you think I'm on the right track with a HT1100 - Fishhooks?

Greg

If they fix the PAL issue, actually interlaced issue I think as NTSC looks poor via an interlaced feed also, (which I am sure they will) before you commit to an HT1100 then I would say go for the H77. Otherwise the HT1100 sounds a good choice.

fishhooks,

ya I do visit extemeplace. My ID there is wind30. Quite dissapointed with H77 after reading all these reports.

hopefully I will not have all these problems. I am not worried about things that a good scaler will solve but rather the chromatic aberrations... that sound pretty scary... I mean if the set has bad optics, there is nothing you can do about it.

Messiah,

I am kind of confused. The problem lies in the deinterlacer or the scaler??? All these problem comes from an interlaced feed? Is the picture fine with a 480p input signal? Because in some of your posts you seem to mentioned that the picture is fine with DVI and progressive but the next post you say it is not.

I think unless you are residing in the States at this moment, where most everyone is overcome with excitement with the H77, I would stay 'well' clear.
I looked at the Mitsubishi counterpart a few hours ago here in Singapore and was disgusted with the image.
Have to admit it was a brief test, but in general the problems being noted here with the non USA H77's were all evident, both with NTSC and PAL DVD's, "Clay Face" the most objectionable and generally snurfy video.
I also had to point out to the shop that the sign they were displaying stating that the machine was "Japan" made was incorrect. The unit is clearly marked "Made in Taiwan" not that this is a big issue at this stage.
Similarly, the Mitsu. I saw in Australia a few weeks back was poor.

I think LiOn posted some similar findings a while back with a Hong Kong Mitsu. (slightly different model number but apparently the same machine)
If I remember he said something about changing the Color Wheel speed, but the shop or I didn't know how to access the Service Menu. (If that's what you need to do)

Anyway, will be interested to see the outcome, but please stop advising members to think of an external Scaler such as the iScan HD.
What an insult to at this stage even think of purchasing other add-on gear to make a product perform as it should!!!

P.S. Greg:
One of my great mates here who is an NEC Dealer, recently sold 2 HT-1100's to the Nokia President in Finland. This guy had been looking around for some time and was not happy with any of the other projectors he had auditioned!

I've already got a Crystalio scaler so if that makes these problems a non issue for me and in every other respect the H77 is a winner then I'd still consider it. Having said that I completely agree, any obvious issues should be addressed by the manufacturer. I assume Optoma will be keen to sort this out or they could have a very embarrasing situation on their hands!

Cheers
Andy

Originally posted by zAndy12
I've already got a Crystalio scaler so if that makes these problems a non issue for me and in every other respect the H77 is a winner then I'd still consider it. Having said that I completely agree, any obvious issues should be addressed by the manufacturer. I assume Optoma will be keen to sort this out or they could have a very embarrasing situation on their hands!

Cheers
Andy

Yes that is my point, I allready was set on adding a scaler. This doesn't mean that the problem is not real and should not be fixed just wondering if i am sidestepping the problem. Also for PAL we have seen many projectors over the last years that needed 2 or 3 fixes before it worked ok. Again this doesn't make me happy but it seems we are considered less important i guess.

What does worry me is the optical problem this could have been 1 projector if not guitarman should be able to see it on his projector too right ?

Last point is that there now seem to be 3 'versions' for europe

1) demo units, with clearly pal problems should never have shipped to consumers
2) first batch, that are already in europe with the first 'real' pal software
3) new batch still on route that seems to have new software.

Is this correct, this is atleast what i understood from the dealers.

Daniel.

Originally posted by alantkh
Messiah,

I am kind of confused. The problem lies in the deinterlacer or the scaler??? All these problem comes from an interlaced feed? Is the picture fine with a 480p input signal? Because in some of your posts you seem to mentioned that the picture is fine with DVI and progressive but the next post you say it is not.

The reason for my confusion is because I initially thought it was an interlaced only issue as the progressive feed from my Tosh SD900 and HTPC were both pretty good. However, when I connected my Pio 868 last night the interlaced feed was poor (expected) over both component and DVI. I was expecting to see a huge improvement when switching to progressive 720p output from the 868. Unfortunately I did not hence my comment that the scaler/deinterlacer in the H77 and the 868 both seem to be as poor as each other.

Hope that clears it up.

Originally posted by zAndy12
I assume Optoma will be keen to sort this out or they could have a very embarrasing situation on their hands!

Cheers
Andy

I'd like to think so but have been trying to contact the UK Product Manager for 2 days and still no joy.

I can only say that it's probably just as well this thing has a white painted casing cos it could become the proverbial similarly coloured elephant :)

Originally posted by Messiah
I'd like to think so but have been trying to contact the UK Product Manager for 2 days and still no joy.

I can only say that it's probably just as well this thing has a white painted casing cos it could become the proverbial similarly coloured elephant :)

I'm terribly sorry to hear you and others abroad are having issues..... I can assure you there is no issue here with US based units. Optoma has always been very responsive to me in any questions I have raised. Here's hoping they resolve everything quickly for you.

I've been over my H77 with a fine tooth comb long before you guys reported problems. I went back over everything again just to make sure I didn't miss anything. I've been *trying* to find faults with it.... I just haven't found any...

I do NOT have any kind of chromatic aberration whatsoever. I don't have any kind of tearing or smearing.... The image is slightly softer via interlaced than via upscaled DVI, but not anywhere near like you are describing....

Again, sorry to hear of your issues.... Hopefully Optoma will jump on these issues and get them resolved for you. The USA H77s are far and away the best value in projectors right now....

Messiah,

oh, so did you managed to get a good picture on a 480p input to the projector using your HTPC or SD900.

If you managed to get a good picture on a 480p input, then it means the scaler on the H77 is perfectly fine which will be VERY good news for me.

It is easy to get a good DVD player with an excellent 480P output. Finding one with an excellent 720P output might be harder for me.

I wonder which version I ordered, the US version or PAL version... In Singapore the H77 was released at around the same time as the US. Does anyone know how to tell them apart? Checking the firmware version?

alantkh;

The Pio. 969AVi is great @ 720P and is available here in your home town, guess it is a bit costly though, with your recent H77 purchase?

If you manage to get to Funan over the next few days, try to audition the Mitsu. 2000 and see how it compares to the H77.

Greg;

What are they quoting for HT-1100 including delivery to NZ and what Duty cost are you likely to cop?

Just to add another data point, I have a US H77 and it does exhibit a small amount of chromatic aberation. This shows up as a small amount of purple fringing around very high contrast light / dark transitions. It looks similar to the purple finging you see on some digital cameras when photographing a bright image against a dark background. See www.dpreview.com for examples of this phenomonon.

However, at normal viewing distances, this effect is invisible. Other than that, my H77 has been great. I have not tested it with any interlaced signals yet as I basically only watch DVDs. The picture with 480p component and 720p DVI signals is really very nice. I do have an old S-VHS VCR connected via s-video cable. Perhaps on Sunday (my next opportunity), I will fire it up and check out a tape just to see how old interlaced video looks.

About my only complaint is that I have a fairly high gain screen and the reflected light from the screen bounces around the room and decreases overall contrast of the image. However, I can't really blame the pj for this.

The blue power light bothered me for the first two days I owned the pj, then I put some tape over it and problem solved.

Ira

Ira, I just went up to my screen and looked close at the Focus Icon and saw the same thing. It's a needle thin line color of purple at top line and green at bottom line horizontals. I was able to clean that up by moving the lens shift which to my surprise moved the image completely off the screen 100% over 52" of movement. But with my flush mount right now I'm using the max amount of lens shift. Anyway I can't see a problem at normal viewing area's, I had to put my nose up to the screen to see the problem.

I can't understand why Europe released the small amount of PAL models when the firmware's not ready yet. Maybe the dealers were complaining, who knows. At least I'd think they would set you up with a CD of the firmware so you could enter it at home, thru the RS232.

I did allot of tests on the Pixelworks scaler deinterlacer and it's super close to a Faroujda type deinterlacer. Jaggies in the roof tops of the Gladiator Colosseum scene look very very close to being cleaned up to the same amount. The opening fly by Spaceship scene in the Galaxy Quest DVD is played flawlessly with smooth pan both using the Faroudja or Pixelworks. I see no reason to worry about the scaler/deinterlacer. It's the Pal signal not syncing with smears and postures that's the problem.

I wish Justin would at least give you a reason or answer.
Good luck,
I guess your choices are to wait it out, enjoy progressive/DVI until they square away the PAL signal, or return it. A shame because I know this projector has a killer picture.

Originally posted by iblumberg
Just to add another data point, I have a US H77 and it does exhibit a small amount of chromatic aberation. This shows up as a small amount of purple fringing around very high contrast light / dark transitions. It looks similar to the purple finging you see on some digital cameras when photographing a bright image against a dark background. See www.dpreview.com for examples of this phenomonon.This phenomonon on digital cameras is a different and clearly explainable situation. A digital camera's CCD sensor is made up of 2x2 pixel arrays of generally red / green / blue pixel elements arranged something like...
RG
GB

Therefore, the actual full RGB color values for each individual pixel are determined by interpolation. This is what leads to the chromatic aberation on digital cameras. As resolutions increase the problem lessens of course.

On a DLP however, each color is originating from the same DMD pixel element of course.

The best explaination I have heard for the H77 chromatic aberation is Guitarmans comment about lens shift.

Question is: does the color fringing dissapear completely when the lens shift is neutral (centered?)? ie: What I am suggesting is that when the lens shift is at it's extremes, this could be resulting in the slightly different light paths of the primary colors due to the more extreme angle the light is passing through the lens?

Greg

It's definetly the lens shift at the extreme ends causing it. But Iv'e read lens shifts can do this. Normal viewing you can't see anything happening with the picture.

I took some shots of things this morning. When I had the shift centered, the camera adds it's own gost of blue though from the angle I guess.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77focus.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77display.jpg

The projector, shows blue light, lens shift at middle
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77mount.jpg

The shift, I was able to move the image off the screen/onto the ceiling, far out!
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77shift.jpg

Some action shots, show clear views/good color.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77austin10.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77austin11.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77austin12.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77austin13.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77austin14.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77austin16.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77austin17.jpg

OK. I'm pleased to say that I spoke with Justin in the UK this afternoon and am now much happier. They (Optoma UK) are apparently aware of the issues I have raised but as yet do not know whether it is a hardware or software issue. They were very apologetic that early customers are experiemncing these problems and have assured me that they are working on a fix.

They are in Taiwan next week working on this and have given me the option to either hang on to the unit awaiting a software or hardware fix or to return the unit for a refund and then reconsider/rebuy when they have fixed it. I chose the former.

I also asked about the blue power light and it was already on their list of fixes. They think they will most likely make it much less bright rather than switch off altogether, so watch out for that firmware update.

I did not, at this stage, ask whether they would allow us to upate the firmware themselves. Let's let them fix the issues first and worry about that later :)

Regards

A happier H77 owner. And especially happy as my Denon 3910 should arrive tomorrow :D

Hey Tom. Just noticed, you guys in the US have silver H77's. Ours in the UK are white :)

To answer an earlier question, I guess that's the simplest way to know whether you end up with a US or European version.

I'm in the US and my unit is white!

The white sounds nice but the silver ones are NTSC. ;)

Glad to hear Justin's on it and gave you a good option also. I did hear about him going to Taiwan, figured it was about the PAL. Good choice use it with your progressive player and DVI. They'll have the update in a week.

Now that the worries are over you can enjoy some movies. That Austin Powers Intro is a good one. :) You have to admit as it's going it's bright has depth with blacks, beautiful color, just an all around excellent picture.
enjoy

Sure thing Tom. I can start to enjoy it now rather than being disappointed. If (sorry, when :) ) they get this sorted this will be an awesome pj :D

Think this one will be a keeper? :)

I should be seeing one on Monday, so I'll let you know if it has any of the issues you've have.

Gary.

Originally posted by Gary Lightfoot
Think this one will be a keeper? :)

I should be seeing one on Monday, so I'll let you know if it has any of the issues you've have.

Gary.

What's this, you're getting one too?

Quite possibly Tom,

The dealer that has it has made very favourable comments about it so far, and that was straight out of the box more or less. It compares favourably with some other more expensive brands that he stocks, so it sounds like a good upgrade from my HT1000.

I'll post my comments here if I've anything more to add.

Gary.

PAL progressive and DVI is ok but ask to try out an interlaced signal. Bet you find the projector interesting.

Mine is white and NTSC, man.. Seeing yours makes me want a silver one!

Mine is white (in PALland)..wonder if they're just using up the H76 cases they never sold!

Wonderfully quiet, fabulous blacks (the screen goes dark, the room goes dark...only ever seen that with CRT).

With my setup and lens shift (actually at full range due to how it is wall mounted) I'm seeing very very minimal colour fringing.

The scaler is not up to the Faroudja level even on NTSC (used to have an MT8) and there is something weird going on with PAL interlaced. I saw some shearing as well as the posterisation noted last night on a poor quality digital satellite signal. To be frank the rest of the package is so good I'm very happy to just wait for Optoma to fix it.

I also demo'd my H77 in the store yesterday with an Denon A11 (5900 to you guys). A very, very sweet combination. In fact I'm going back to see it with a 3910 as soon as I can, and buying one if it is even close to providing a similar picture.

Regards,

Ian Guinan

In Singapore, we can choose either white or silver so I don't think that can tell me whether the set is NTSC or PAL. Are there 2 seperate firmware? One for NTSC and one for PAL? Or is there only one firmware which can handle both NTSC and PAL? From the taiwan optoma website, it seems that the H77 supports BOTH NTSC and PAL so I think there is only one version of H77. The guys in US can test this PAL smearing problem too if they can get their hands on a PAL input signal.

just took a look at the HC2000. The picture looks perfectly fine with a 1080i input (DVHS) forgot to ask to demo a 480i input.

After reading all these, I am changing my idea of using max lens shift. Will probably try to set it up with minimal lens shift. Anyway makes sense that max shift may cause some slight problems...

Originally posted by Fishhooks
What are they quoting for HT-1100 including delivery to NZ and what Duty cost are you likely to cop? Fishhooks, you have a PM.

Originally posted by alantkh
In Singapore, we can choose either white or silver so I don't think that can tell me whether the set is NTSC or PAL. Are there 2 seperate firmware? One for NTSC and one for PAL? Or is there only one firmware which can handle both NTSC and PAL? From the taiwan optoma website, it seems that the H77 supports BOTH NTSC and PAL so I think there is only one version of H77. The guys in US can test this PAL smearing problem too if they can get their hands on a PAL input signal.

just took a look at the HC2000. The picture looks perfectly fine with a 1080i input (DVHS) forgot to ask to demo a 480i input.

After reading all these, I am changing my idea of using max lens shift. Will probably try to set it up with minimal lens shift. Anyway makes sense that max shift may cause some slight problems...

Firmware on mine reads,

(V.co8 Jun 30th NTSC)

I looked at a couple of movies today. Is suck on dvi and progressive pal as well( not as bad as on interlaced pal). I will contact my dealer on monday, because I can't take this kind of risk, with this amount of money. either a return next week, or a deal regarding future firmware. If it can't be fixed, return.. Hope they can fix it. btw guitarman, do you see any ambient light hitting the outside og the screen on both side. I can see this on dark scenes........ Don't like the way this is going at all..

Well, got my 3910 today and things are much better. Progressive input is pretty darn fine though not quite as smooth (fluid) as with my S3 but only a gnats in it and I guess that's what you pay for with the S3. Interlaced output from the 3910 stutters badly (didn't do that with my Tosh SD900) so still a definite problem with an interlaced feed and the posterisation was still there on certain scenes.

The one that shows it really badle is at the beginning of 2 Fast 2 Furious. Just after the bright film title which arrives and departs like a firework. 2 bikes pull stoppies in to the car park and then a girl in a skimpy chain mail type dress walks toward camera and off screen to the right (hre left). Watch he arm as she walks across screen (and the camera pans in opposite direction). Impossible to miss the posterisation of her arm. I don't rememebr seeing that on my S3 but maybe I just wasn't looking for problems.

Anyone else able to test this? I'll be watchhing mine closely for the next few weeks and if it doesn't improve with future firmware I still hgave the option to return it.

The Pal problems won't be fixed until Justin hashes it out with Taiwan. It can be done becuase the other HT models were made to handle Pal signals. At least the H56 and H30, never heard much about the H76.

Originally posted by Messiah
Well, got my 3910 today and things are much better. Progressive input is pretty darn fine though not quite as smooth (fluid) as with my S3 but only a gnats in it and I guess that's what you pay for with the S3. Interlaced output from the 3910 stutters badly (didn't do that with my Tosh SD900) so still a definite problem with an interlaced feed and the posterisation was still there on certain scenes.

The one that shows it really badle is at the beginning of 2 Fast 2 Furious. Just after the bright film title which arrives and departs like a firework. 2 bikes pull stoppies in to the car park and then a girl in a skimpy chain mail type dress walks toward camera and off screen to the right (hre left). Watch he arm as she walks across screen (and the camera pans in opposite direction). Impossible to miss the posterisation of her arm. I don't rememebr seeing that on my S3 but maybe I just wasn't looking for problems.

Anyone else able to test this? I'll be watchhing mine closely for the next few weeks and if it doesn't improve with future firmware I still hgave the option to return it.

Just curious, why arent you using the the 3910 to output DVI at 720p? I'd be interested to hear the results of that configuration. :)

John

Originally posted by Expletive
Just curious, why arent you using the the 3910 to output DVI at 720p? I'd be interested to hear the results of that configuration. :)

John

I am. But that doesn't stop me testing the other outputs which the player can deliver. It has also shown me that my SD900 was not to blame.

How does the 3910 look with DVI. Any white crush or picture adjustment problems?

You were saying the Marantz seemed smooth. The H77 is very sharp, you could try lowering the projector or maybe even the players sharpness if you want smooth instead of sharp.

like in this screen shot through a DVI connection some thought it was too sharp.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77bravo3.jpg

Originally posted by Messiah
I am. But that doesn't stop me testing the other outputs which the player can deliver. It has also shown me that my SD900 was not to blame.

Sorry if i missed this earlier but can you comment on any video anomalies or improvments using the DVI as compared to the component?

John

Originally posted by guitarman
How does the 3910 look with DVI. Any white crush or picture adjustment problems?

You were saying the Marantz seemed smooth. The H77 is very sharp, you could try lowering the projector or maybe even the players sharpness if you want smooth instead of sharp.

like in this screen shot through a DVI connection some thought it was too sharp.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77bravo3.jpg

Sorry Tom, I meant 'smooth' as in fluid not smooth as in soft. I still feel the image is a little juddery.

Gonna watch another film now and see what it's like. Also had problems setting it up with Avia last night via HDMI>DVI from the 3910. Just didn't click into place. Both bars were either visible or not. Just could not get it where the one just disappeared with the other still just visible. It's not proving easy but I'm persevering for the moment.

Tom have a look a this picture taken from the DVE greyscale. The problem with my projector is the purple/green looking color I get in the mid/low end of the greyscale. what can it be? Looks more like an optical error. I don't think this can be fixed with a firmware upgrade. It might be a foulty unit. My dealer have one more, so we will try to take a look at that unit as well.

You not getting gray in the various IRE levels. Reset the RGB's and start over. Too much blue & red in the mids use both the contrast and brightness Blues and lower them, watch contrast red, watch green in the lower end/brightness

Take a good look at what the sliders doing to the grays, especially the blue. On my H30 I had to pull the blue back as much as 10 on both the contrast and the brightness.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77gray1.jpg

OK, I don't profess to be great at setting these up but can anyone answer why when I switch to native mode (using 720p out from 3910) the picture now has a black border of about 3 inches all around which is smaller on the right vertical than the other 3 sides.

No size adjustment via DVI input so only way to correct is to increase zoom, slightly and physically shift the pj round to center on the screen again. Far from ideal as I don't want to be doing this every time I switch from DVD to Sky.

Geez, this pj is proving hard work :(

Native 16.9 works with DVI, you player set for 720p. A progressive componant signal you'll get a small image with native 16.9 with bars all around. For progressive component use the 16.9 aspect. I haven't tried it but I'd bet RGBHV will be ok for the native 16.9 also. Computer type signals.

Tom, I have tried up and down on the rgb's but the purple thing does not go away. most difference I can see when moving the green, but the purple only moves up or down in the greyscale.

Well, I'm afraid I'm giving this pj one last test before I give up on it. Not so much due to picture problems but rather image size issue as above.

Sky signal via component fills the screen perfectly in 16:9 mode (set up like this)

Switch to DVI 1280x720 from the HTPC in native mode and the image is larger than the screen by about 2-3 inches all round.

Use the Denon 3910 via HDMI>DVI in 720p mode (pj says 1280x720) and the image is now smaller than the screen size by about 2 inches left, top and bottom and about 1 inch on the right.

Surely 1280x720 is 1280x720 and therefore HTPC and DVD player should be the same image size? How is anyone supposed to watch different sources when the image keeps changing size and shifting position? This is crazy. And driving me mad. Longing for my S3 back now.

Well, on further testing I found that the image size differences appear to be due to different resolution frequencies. If I set the pj up with a 1280x720 60Hz signal (from HTPC) in Native mode then switch to a 1280x720 50Hz signal (from 3910 playing R2 PAL disk) also in Native mode I get a different image size. Switching back to component 720x576 (UK PAL Sky TV) in 16||:9 mode I get a slightly different image size again.

Using my Xbox outpoutting 720x480 is correct so long as the pj is in 16:9 mode.

I have no idea what is going on here but suffice to say I've had enoygh.

I'm now very worried about my prospective H77 purchase! Should I wait for the Panny AE700 and save some cash? Decisions decisions....

Andy

You'll only know if you get one and try it. You can have mine if you like cos it's being returned this week. I've just had enough of it. May work for you and others but for me it has just given too much grief.

Mind you I'm hoping that by using my Crystalio I can get a uniform image size for all sources, certainly I have on my plasma so hopefully the same will be true of the H77 (plan is to set the Crystalio to output 720p @ 60hz and get the timing spot on). The proof of the pudding will be in the viewing I guess...

Andy.

I was going to order the H77 which seems like an exciting projector, but I am really wanting a 3 chipper. So I ordered the AE700 as a bridge projector.

Thanks guitarman for all the info and screen shots. Who knows, I may change my mind quickly as I still am a big fan of DLP. I love my samsung hln.

To be honest I hope I don't end up with yours, sounds like it's got it's fair share of issues, just hope it's not representative of all of them!

Cheers,
Andy.

TBH, I don't think it's just this one. They don't seem like pj (hardware) faults, they all seem more like firmware issues and I'm afraid I'm just not sure I wanna wait in the hope they bring out a software fix. I am very confused right now and that's one thing I was not with the S3. It just worked and worked well (apart from the fan noise).

For those who may be interested I have attached some screen shots of the differing image sizes and positions. Lights were left on low so you can make out the difference between the screen border and white area borders due to positioning (hence washed out images).

1280x720 @ 60Hz from HTPC over DVI

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~wattsn/h77_1.jpg


1280x720 @ 50Hz from Denon 3910 over DVI (720p)

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~wattsn/h77_2.jpg


720x576 @ 50Hz from UK Sky+ box over RCA component

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~wattsn/h77_3.jpg

and this was after shifting the Sky picture to match the screen perfectly using the Horizontal and Vertical shift options in the pj menu. Switched input, go back and it's wrong again.

Not good Messiah.

Sorry to hear of your frustration

Anyone else using the PJ with multiple DVI inputs and experiencing these problems ?

Well, I just spent the last 60 minutes doing some more testing with different disks. It would appear that a lot (if not all) of the image shifting issue is programme/disc dependent. Sky news was perfectly positioned whilst some of the movie channels had a slight shift to them. Come to think of it I think certaion channels may have been like this with the S3 (just don't watych much Sky on the pj - anyone in the UK who has it will probably know why :) )

Just watched 30 minutes of Matrix Reloaded via 720p HDMI from the 3910 and it was absolutely stunning quality. I am beginning to think the H77 is just tolerant with poor;ly mastered discs or source material and I guess that cannot be blamed on the H77. It would also appear that if I let the H77 auto select the input it shifts the picture yet if I select it manually from the direct buttons on the remote it does not. IT is not consiustent though but in the last hour it has behaved itself and not shifted the image. Anyone care to explain, cos I can't. I wonder if this is down to the PAL firmware issues already discussed.

From what I have seen in the last hour (H77 and 3910 behaving) I am a happy bunny. I just wonder if they will continue to behave.

I think the image from Matrix Reloaded that I just viewed now makes me realise why Tom has been singing the praises of this pj. I think I'll shut up now and just spend the next few days/evenings watching more films and reserve judgement. Phew!!

Well, that sounds promising. :)

I'll be seeing one tommorow, mostly via HTPC though I may suggest we try interlaced, progressive and HDMI digital via a Pioneer (868 probably). I'll let you know if we have the same issues you did, though I'll only be able to get a short demo due to other commitments. I'll be going back (hopefully) to spend some more time with it in a couple of weeks time.

Gary.

Great stuff Gary. If you're ever down Cardiff way you are more than welcome to pop in and have some play time :)

I think maybe each part of the chain (H77, 3910, Sky, etc) has small issues which have compounded to give me a headache this weekend. Going by the Matrix Reloaded (R2 PAL) disc I just watched 20 minutes or so of I will keep everything. It was stunning and saw no PAL issues as discusseed on this thread. I still reckon it's an inyterlaced issue (or maybe PAL interlaced) that is the problem.

And I haven't watached any HD material yet for more than a minute. Looking forward to a complete film in glorious HD :)

Hope the demo goes well tomorrow.

Thanks Neil,

How does it look with Hi Def stuff? Fantastic or fantastic? :)

I'll have to pop round sometime, when I'm far less busy (so much to do at the moment!). You'll have to do the same. Bit of a trek each way, but should be fun all the same.

Gary.

Neil, glad things are better.

In the System Menu choose source lock on. This way you enter the signal manually all the time with the corresponding hard button on the remote. If a signal is lost the PJ won't hunt through all the signals it will just look for the current last used one.

I choose Blue for blanking also instead of having a black screen

Hey Gary I've been wathing HDTV all day, football games. Very bright yet super blacks and colors, this it what they call high contrast. Real high contrast! :)

I am not sure if this has been gone through b4 but what is the lens shift range of the H77?

I have two DIFFERENT information from the optoma USA website and the optoma Taiwan website. The USA website, assuming a shelf mounted H77, says that the highest you can place the projector on a shelf is at the center of the image. From the Taiwan website, they say you can go as high as the top of the image.

The H77 is no longer on Demo in Singapore so I cannot check it out but I saw the HC2000, the lens shift allows you to place the PJ on a high shelf right at the top of the image. So how about H77?

Same as HC2000. In fact, my PJ is mounted upside down on a ceiling mount and the center of the lens is about 5 inches above the top of the viewable screen area and I do not need to use any keystone to have a perfectly square image.

I meant a shelf mount. I know if I do ceiling mount (upside down), I can put the projector near the top of the image. But how about if I put it the right side up. Can I put the projector near the top of the image? Where is the zero lens shift point? The manual on the USA optoma website says it is 1/4 from the bottom of the screen while the brochure from the taiwan website says it is right smack at the center (1/2 from the bottom).

USA website, manual showing the lens shift

http://www.optomahometheater.com/documents/H77_user_manual.pdf

Taiwan brochure showing a DIFFERENT thing

http://www.optoma.com.tw/images/Projector_Info/h77_a1.pdf

Can someone ask them to correct it? very confusing as lens shift is very impt and can cause lots of grief if the information is inaccurate.

Shouldn't make any difference upside down or right way up. Just means you'll be working at the opposite end of the lens adjustment.

alantkh

I should have said in my post a few days back that I also saw that 2000 with the 1080 HD signal from Dig VHS and it looked fine, but Interlaced DVD was the thing that looked real bad.

Hi Messiah

How have you got your sky box connected to the H77 are you using a rgb to componet changer?

Also have you tried Football from a sky feed into the PJ yet? as im thinking of getting a H77 and need to be sure how footy looks...may have to SDI mod my box and feed it that way if the picture is to bad...Im getting terrible blocking on the sports channle with a HS10 and a SVHS feed.

Glad the PJ is now working out for you as i've been following this thread and was seriousl;y put off these last few pages.


Great work all who contributed here...has been a glorious read :p

Same way I've always used my Sky+ box. S-video out to my Denon A1Sr which then upconverts to component. A1Sr connected using Van Damme broadcast quality component cables.

Honest answer. No where near as good as the S3 but then that had Faroudja processing to help things out. The picture is emminently watchable but mquite a bit softer than it was on the S3. If I keep the H77 (and that is still in the balance. Hoping to do a side by side with a HC2000 in the next week or so) then I weill most certainly go for a scaler like the iScan HD (HD+) or maybe even a Crystalio or equivalent.

Not gonna rush into that though as have had enough headaches the last few days with a change of PJ and DVD player :( If I could get my S3 back again I would but as I can't then a bit of chill out time is required and then re-assess the situation. I also need to give Optoma UK a chance to come up with a new firmware version.

Afraid I've not watched any footy on it. Don't subscribe to the Sky Sports package I'm afraid. If you tell me when the next match is on on a FTA channel I'll watch 15 mins or so and report back.

All

Watched SW A new Hope this evening from the original disc and 'Oh My Gawd'. My views have changed completely. I cannot remember the last time I was bowled over in this way by the quality of a DVD. Not only did it look absolutely stunning on the H77, the 3910 behaved flawlessly, no image size problems, other than in the cut scenes betwen the initial menus (when I started feeling ill again) but as soon as it went to main menus or main film it was perfect. And let's not forget this was a R2 PAL disc which is supposed to show smearing etc. It's a long time since I've seen such a pristine print from such an old film.

Matrix Reloaded is also stunning so I think all my initial fears have just about subsided. The one thing with this H77 also is the brightness. I'm running it in low lamp mode (no need to as fan noise does not change) but it is as bright if not brighter than high lamp mode on the S3, with absolutely no noise whatsoever. On bright scenes it was as though I had switched the lights on in the room. I think darker walls will be next on the agenda.

Forgetting what I've said about this in the past few days, from tonight's viewing I can only say it is awesome. What vfm. Can you tell I am more pleased tonight :)

Woo hoo, one happy camper, for the moment. And the PAL firmware fix can only make it better though, from tonights session, I cannot now see what they need to fix. maybe I'm just a bit more relaxed about it now, but who cares.

Gary, how did your demo go?

I had a brief view of the H77 today, and was reasonabaly impressed.

Using a Pioneer 668 via progressive and interlaced component, we saw none of the issues you had seen Neil, in fact, interlaced looked pretty decent. Using Avia revealed detail in the 6.75mhz zone which is often just a grey circle with some combinations, so it wasn't doing too bad IMHO. We then used an HTPC for viewing Hi Def which was excellent as expected.

My only niggle was that there was some background noise/grain with DVDs which could have been the pj or the HTPC set-up we were using, but due to the limited time I had there, we didn't get to the bottom of it. There was also some small overscan which did vary a little, but we didn't get the black borders that have been mentioned. There doesn't seem to be a left/right adjustment, but there is an up/down adjustment of the image. The overscan appeared to be 2% to the right, and 1% to the left approximately.

This pj may even benefit from the FL-Day filter, as a look in the service menu revealed Red contrast being set higher than the green and blue, so that's something to look into.

No readings or calibrations were done at this time, but my initial impression is that it's good value for money and delivers a good picture. I'd like to see how it would compare to my HT1000 regarding black level and contrast when calibrated to D65 with and without filter though. It was plenty bright enough in eco mode on a screen bigger than 8ft wide. It was definatkley one of the quietest projectors I've not heard too. :)

If a firmware upgrade is due, then I'd like to see what effect that had. Some of the earlier issues mentioned were reminiscent of some other pjs with earlier firmware, so I feel they can probably be resolved.

EDIT - forgot to mention the banding - only noticed it in one (opening) scene which was quite bad - it was some fog I think (Gladiator or LOTR maybe). It was only that once, which is why I forgot about it. Didn't see it in normal scenes though.

Gary.

Sounding positive Gary. Just so you know there is an option to shift the image horizontally for analogue inputs (in the Image, Signal option). Not for DVI though, but then you wouldn't expect there to be if using native mode.

Hi Neil - I didn't see your reply, as I must have just started typing when you posted, plus I was doing some other things which took my attention.

I've just watched ANH on my HT1000, and I'm very impressed with the image quality of the DVDs. 8mbs or more in places, so in Superbit territory, which explains the noise free image. Super sharp detail too. This is how a DVD should be authored, but Greedo just shouldn't shoot ya know. :)

Other than that, I'm very happy - anyon reccommend a good program for removing artefacts like Greedo laserblasts form an mpg? :) (after effects maybe??)

Gary.

Just seen your xecond reply. :)

I can't remember what moce we were in where we saw the overscan, and only had up/down adjustment, but you're probably right about it being DVI though. The up/down shift could be useful for moving 2.35:1 images within the 16:9 area I suppose.

Gary.

Man there are a lot of judgmental posts on this thread lately. I was an inch from buying this PJ until I heard the recent problems in this thread. Then I read that most of the problems are source related or pilot error. This thread would be more helpful if judgments were withheld until the reviewer has had time to familerize himself with one's purchase.

Originally posted by Messiah
All

Watched SW A new Hope this evening from the original disc and 'Oh My Gawd'. My views have changed completely. I cannot remember the last time I was bowled over in this way by the quality of a DVD. Not only did it look absolutely stunning on the H77, the 3910 behaved flawlessly, no image size problems, other than in the cut scenes betwen the initial menus (when I started feeling ill again) but as soon as it went to main menus or main film it was perfect. And let's not forget this was a R2 PAL disc which is supposed to show smearing etc. It's a long time since I've seen such a pristine print from such an old film.

Matrix Reloaded is also stunning so I think all my initial fears have just about subsided. The one thing with this H77 also is the brightness. I'm running it in low lamp mode (no need to as fan noise does not change) but it is as bright if not brighter than high lamp mode on the S3, with absolutely no noise whatsoever. On bright scenes it was as though I had switched the lights on in the room. I think darker walls will be next on the agenda.

Great, now you're starting to see what I was all excited about. We got the birghtness yet still have the deep deep blacks, super enriched colors. Have you noticed how nice Red is? The 3910 sounds like a winner also.
Tomorrow night it Stars War/New Hope night here.
enjoy

Although I watched the Trilogy on Laser Disc all weekend. :)

Forgetting what I've said about this in the past few days, from tonight's viewing I can only say it is awesome. What vfm. Can you tell I am more pleased tonight :)

Woo hoo, one happy camper, for the moment. And the PAL firmware fix can only make it better though, from tonights session, I cannot now see what they need to fix. maybe I'm just a bit more relaxed about it now, but who cares.

Gary, how did your demo go?

grrrrr... still waiting for mine..... and Star Wars is out.... was really hoping to have mine in time for Star Wars, still all good things come to those that wait....

Andy.

Originally posted by tubby
Man there are a lot of judgmental posts on this thread lately. I was an inch from buying this PJ until I heard the recent problems in this thread. Then I read that most of the problems are source related or pilot error. This thread would be more helpful if judgments were withheld until the reviewer has had time to familerize himself with one's purchase.

Hmm, guess you are (at least partly) referring to me. In my defense I will state that since my initial posts on this subject I have invested in a new DVD player and that it also still exhibits inconsistencies. Don't think I can really accommodate those and just report as I see them, mostly in an effort to get others views and / or help.

And I have also caveated that 'when it's good it's great' but there are still occasional issues.

I'll bow out now :o

Messiah- I don't think you need to defend yourself. If humans were perfectly rational, observing machines, then we'd get no pleasure from chewing the cud with fellow enthusiasts. It's been an emotional thread.

He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy.... :)

Actualy, I'd rather someone mention these issues before I bought something, because it's more annoying (to say the least) when someone says "Oh yeah - mine does that too...." after you've jumped in and spent $5000+ and find it has issues that people hadn't mentioned earlier.

At least we're aware of some possible failings and know what to look for. We can then decide if these issues exist with our set-ups, and if they're a deal breaker (until a firmware fix comes along, like with the HT1000 and the PAL tearing problem).

Gary.

Originally posted by tubby
This thread would be more helpful if judgments were withheld until the reviewer has had time to familerize himself with one's purchase. I Disagree. The whole point of these forums is discussion and the expressing of opinions about the products being discussed.

No one should withhold any opinion or initial finding, as it is the discussion that often helps resolve those issues, and also makes others aware of the initial experiences of others.

As everyone has a different experience and a different subjective view on things, it is the collective opinions of everyone that helps form the overall impression that any individual arrives at.

Basically, we all should want to hear the good and the bad experiences, as they happen, as well as the evential resolutions to those bad experiences! :)

Greg

I apologize, you're right, too much info is better than not enough and i should be able to discern what information is important or not. Keep the critical reviews coming.

Mine Arrived yesterday. FYI, it is white, and I'm in the US (so it better be NTSC :)) . Was hoping for silver since my mount is silver, oh well :rolleyes: . Awaiting other piece parts (Bravo D2, DVI cable, etc) to arrive and I'll see if I can figure out how to get this puppy dialed in.

Cheers,
Scott

Scott, didn't you fire it up? If so How's it looking. Welcome to the new and still very young club.

Tom, et.al.:

Nope, didnt' fire it up. it's a long unrelated story but this is one of those cart-before-the-horse things. I don't really have a spot for it in the basement (or anywhere) yet. But not being able to stand it (as would be normal for any male with a new HTPJ :)), I whipped out the nailgun last night and tossed up the (2) requisite studs for the firehawk and hope to get it assembled and hung tonight. I literally don't have much to feed the PJ with yet, but I'll probably come up with something ;) . DVD player is due in a day or 2. It'll take me a couple evenings to get everything temporized so I can check it out. I'll report back on findngs.

Cheers,
Scott

Understood,

I fired up my first projector NEC LT150z at my Cigar Store when it arrived there. Shot a DVD of Harry Potter 1 on a piece of white art cardboard. Movies thru thin air, was like magic.

Reminds me of when my Dad bought me a cine projector, and a small silent reel of Star Wars. I recorded some accompanying dialogue/soundtrack from the LP, and played it back while we watched - also on a small piece of card. :)

It was great fun, even though I had to ocasionaly pause/unpause the tape to keep the audio in sync. Those few minutes of the movie really stick in my mind and are great nostalgia for me.

The image quality of the new DVDs is pretty amazing btw. A bit better than the old super 8mm cine film I had too. :)

Gary.

"Reminds me of when my Dad bought me a cine projector, and a small silent reel of Star Wars. I recorded some accompanying dialogue/soundtrack from the LP, and played it back while we watched - also on a small piece of card."

A young film maker budding.

I'm running the Star Wars DVD's now at the shop in 4.3. Also got the widescreen version for the H77 tonight.

Bang up job on the black and color saturation/ tones. These will give the Fifth Element a run for sure.

OK, I got the 110" firehawk mounted tonight. Unboxed the H77 and plugged in a STB Motorola HD box. Took some consultation :rolleyes: to figure out how to turn the H77 on. To keep anyone else from feeling stupid, you have to push the rocker switch (which isn't the power button), and THEN the power button (hold it down). I figured rocker switch WAS the "button" referred to in manual. Nope, the LED indicator is the button. Should have read harder I guess :) Now that was out of the way...

For anyone wondering about brightness or ambient light with he firehawk: I wanted a screen that the kids could still watch cartoons and play with a little light, I figured VERY little. To my surprise, in my in-progress basement there are no less than (2) 200w bare bulbs literally right in front of my firehawk on the ceiling, _*between*_ the PJ (on table) and the screen. With all the basement lights on, including those 2 200 watters, I could see the picture just fine! If 400w of incandecent can't completely wash it out, I guess it woould take direct sunlight to do it. Of course it wasn't videophile quality by any means, but for kids, it was not completely washed out, and was plenty bright and watchable I believe. I'm impressed with that so far. PJ appears bright enough for that task with the FH combo for sure. Maybe I'll try my had at a screen shot soon.

May have gotten too big a screen, got a little light headed watching all that movement that big. Have to play with that and see.

This was out of the box, have no idea where anything was set. Of to bed for now, more as I learn...

Cheers,
Scott

help,

can someone confirm this for me? Optoma told me that the highest you can place the H77 on a shelf using lens shift is at the center of the image.

I have seen first hand a HC2000 go all the way to the top of the image, ie the HC2000 can lens shift such that the image is projected BELOW the projector without using a ceiling mount (ie it is NOT upside down).

Does the H77 has a lower range lens shift compared to the HC2000? My country no longer has the H77 on demo so I cannot check it out.

I have the H77 shelfmounted just some cm under the top of the screen and use the lensshift to get the the image on the screen. no problem

Hai,

This should give you a idea

http://www.submarine.nl/mmbase/daniel/ht/images/h77t.jpg

infact it seems to have about a 7" overschoot on the top so the projector lense can
if you want be 7" higher then defined in the 'c' mode.


Daniel.

jfinneru,

is it? But optoma confirmed to me that the manual at their USA website is correct. See link below (pg 25)

http://www.optomahometheater.com/documents/H77_user_manual.pdf

Optoma is not very clear about this cuz I specifically emailed them about the discrepancy and they SPECIFICALLY replied and said the pdf file at the US website is correct.

anyway the picture in the manual can be found in danielo's post.

here is the pic

http://www.submarine.nl/mmbase/daniel/ht/images/h77t.jpg

Notice that according to the manual, you CANNOT shelf mount the H77 near the top of the image. The best I can go is the B mode which from the picture is the center of the screen.

well the manual here is incorrect. you can shelf mount the projector just under the top edge of the screen. I am planning to move the shelf a little bit down, so I don't have to use the lensshift to it's maximum, but it's possible.

Yep, you can definitely mount the pj with the centre of the lens up to about 4 inches outside the screen area (top or bottom) and use the lens shift to place the image correctly on screen.

Hate to say this, but Optoma are incorrect. Maybe they've never actually tried it and are only going by technical specs. i.e. Maybe it shouldn't do this but it does :D

Originally posted by Messiah
Yep, you can definitely mount the pj with the centre of the lens up to about 4 inches outside the screen area (top or bottom) and use the lens shift to place the image correctly on screen.

Hate to say this, but Optoma are incorrect. Maybe they've never actually tried it and are only going by technical specs. i.e. Maybe it shouldn't do this but it does :D

Could be the spec is Optoma's minimum spec just to CTA due to possible manufacturing tolerances.

OK, I got the 110" firehawk mounted tonight. Unboxed the H77 and plugged in a STB Motorola HD box.

Good going now you can put the H77 though the paces. Try some HDTV, I hv the Motorola also and set it to 720p, 480i override for SDTV, thru DVI.

alantkh -

You can definitely mount this on a shelf even with the top edge of the screen. That's what I've done with mine. It works fine.

I will later using ceiling mount, and flip it upside down, but I rigged up a temporary shelf, and it is good.

Also, if you look at the text with the picture, item "B", image shifted down, says "-100%" just like "C" image up says "+100%". That says it will go as far down as it goes up, which is my experience also.

paul

I finally found the time to post my opinion on the H77 (european version).
I ran different tests trough the projector, interlaced and progressive, going from standard cable to DVD and D-Theater.

I didn't notice any smearing problem at all... i guess this must have dissapeared with the newest firmware this unit. This unit is part of the newest set that arrived at Optoma UK. It seems that only two (yep, 2 !) units arrived there, one left towards a dealer in the UK and the other one came to me :)

Standard definition DVD looks really stunning, but D-Theater (D-VHS - 1080i) is just breathtaking with the H77 !
I can also tell you that the lens shift works 100% in both ways, it's also mounted in a way that the lens matches the top part of the screen, in my setup.

I just have a couple of very minor "requests" for a firmware update, that i will pass along to optoma, but i have yet to find a bug. So far this unit seems bug free ! :cool:

More units are promised to arrive in october. If i need to test something out particulary, just let me know.

Greetings,

dasithlord
Ps: tom is right - "there's a new king in town" !!!

Sounds good, right there's many excellent things that make the new projector high on the list. Bright, blacks, low dither, super quiet, power features, shift and best of all the Optoma colors.
Welcome to the club.


Hey Jason at AVS just put a sticky up at the top. He's got Five H77's do in this week. That's 5 :)

talked to my dealer today. I could keep my H77, and when the new ones arrive, I can swap mine with a brand new one! A good deal I think;)

That's pretty handy, you get to start over in bulb hrs. I think I'm at 350hrs now. Lets here how it goes with the new firmware version.

For anyone curious about how a pic looks with (2) 200w bare bulbs shining on a firehawk at the same time... Sponge Bob making out just fine
:D

What dvd cable is everyone using DVD-I OR DVD-D ?Tom I know we spoke earlier but it just seems odd that there isnt that much advertisement and length choices for the DVD-I cables so I'm wondering if its the DVD-D cables that people are using with the H77, mine arrived today but since my wife and I are moving into our new house next week I wont be setting it up till I get there, is anyone here using a carada bright white screen? its the most cost effective screen setup aside from diy right now so Im looking for some input from someone who has the H77 and the brilliant white.

re DVD-I/D cables: "I" contains "D" (DVI digital) and "A" (DVI analog) wiring. "I" is an integrated cable. The H77 uses "D" signal so technically you can use the "I" (supports both) or the "D" (digital only). Since you don't need "A", there is no reason to use an "I" cable that has both capabilities. "D" should be all anyone would want with this PJ, unless you planned on using the cable with a different setup some time down the road (that needed an "A" signal). That's my understanding of it anyway.

Thank you much, that sets everything straight

dasithlord,

can you post your firmware version since that it seems that you have the good PAL unit :)

the way to check firmware posted by Gutiarman is

On the projector hit Re-sync, source and enter at the same time.

Now you're in the service menu. Firmware will be visable

thanks.


anyway seems that there is a mistake in the manual on the lens shift. Will try to clarify this further with optoma.

I have a small issue between a Denon 3910 & an H77, using DVi and wondered if anyone could help?

Basically - it won't sync to a DVi signal, any format, from the 3910. I've also tried an HDMI-DVi adaptor at the player end and the same thing occurs. The DVi cable is a Lindy 10m DVi-D.

The H77 recognises the signal format eg. 1280x720, but then goes off searching for a signal again. Occasionally it locks on for 3-5 seconds but then goes off hunting again.

At the moment I'm only able to test this on R2 / PAL disks as my player is regionally coded.

Has anyone else experienced this, or can anyone offer advice?

Thanks in advance

Paul

Can you try a shorter cable? Sometimes lengths over 7.5m can be problematic.

Gary.

I can try it as a test Gary but the 10m is buried in the ceiling & wall, and it worked using the DVi output of my PC card.

Paul

In the H77 manual is notes a DVI-I cable. But I did talk to Wing about the D type vs the I and he said either would work ok. The D type has all nine rows of 3 pins, the I type deletes the center 3 rows.

Here's how I understand the differences.

There's nine rows of 3 pins, and four pins outside the 9 rows.

The four outside the nine are analog pins. Not needed, and can be trouble if you get a male cable that has them. Like the connector on the Motorola STB I hv doesn't hv female analog pins, so you couldn't connect the cable.

The 3 rows in the center of the 9 rows of pins are not used either, so it doesn't matter if they're on the connector or not. I just tested a DVI-I cable which doesn't have the 3 center rows or the analog pins with the H77, it works.

One cool thing in case you didn't notice is the projector will handle a digital or component signal through the DVI connection.

To sum it up get a male to male cable which doesn't have the four analog pins. If it has all nine rows of three or deletes the center 3 rows, that won't matter.

DVI- I = 6 rows of pins/no analog pins

DVI-D = 9 rows of pins/no analog pins

DVI-D (Dual Link) 9 rows of pins/ four analog pins (this type of male connector can cause connection problems)

What is the cost of the replacement bulbs ?

Are they sold as a set or do you need to buy two?

Thanks

This sounds like the best value right now in digital FP.

Good stuff please keep it up !!!

Thanks for your advice Tom. Just my luck, though, I seem to have the DVI-D with the 4 analogue pins! Blast.

Is there anything I could do on my 3910, I wonder, to disable analogue output via these pins altogether?

Regards

Paul

The pins on your cable only matter if one of your devices doesn't have the analog pins. You won't be able to plug the cable in.

The H77's DVI in has every pin but they're not all functional. If your Denon has a DVI input with all the pins it wouldn't matter. Nothing's going on with the analog pins nor the center 3 rows from the group of 9 pins.

Your Denon just like other DVD players isn't sending info from these.

I just wanted to point at the fact that the four analog pins can get in the way with some devices. Like my Motorola or like it was with the NEC HT1000, it's DVI connection just had the 9pins and no analogs. Square peg in a round whole type thing, can't connect.

Originally posted by pcavelle
I have a small issue between a Denon 3910 & an H77, using DVi and wondered if anyone could help?

Basically - it won't sync to a DVi signal, any format, from the 3910. I've also tried an HDMI-DVi adaptor at the player end and the same thing occurs. The DVi cable is a Lindy 10m DVi-D.

The H77 recognises the signal format eg. 1280x720, but then goes off searching for a signal again. Occasionally it locks on for 3-5 seconds but then goes off hunting again.

At the moment I'm only able to test this on R2 / PAL disks as my player is regionally coded.

Has anyone else experienced this, or can anyone offer advice?

Thanks in advance

Paul

I know you can get you 3910 to work because messiah/Neil is using that combo and says it's great. He's in the UK also. Pm him his posts are just a page or so back.

In the H77's system menu did you turn the signal lock on? When you do that the projector will lock on to and only look for the one signal you choose with the decrete remote buttons.

Tom - Neil is helping me with this one. We bought our H77s (and 3910's) at the same time. What's worse is, he has the same Lindy cable as me, 10 metres, and his is working!

However he also has a DVi switcher in circuit, which might be boositng the signal. He's going to take it out of circuit to see if he can replicate my problem.

Hope so!

Regards

Paul

If ti turns out to be boosting/helping, I'd like to know which switch he has.

Thanks, Scott

Here you go, just about everybody's favorite movie. On the H77 in econo.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/starwars1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/starwars2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/starwars3.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/starwars4.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/starwars5.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/starwars6.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/starwars7.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/starwars8.jpg

I just watch that on Wednesday night(thewife has school that night).

I tried to listen at ref levels, but you could almost go deaf.

The H77 looked very crisp and I have 80hrs on it and still no flaws(that I see) and no rainbows.

Eco mode is fine for digital TV, but I prefer the high mode for movies and HDTV.

If I have to change out the bulb once a year, no biggy :)

Empire strikes back is tomorrow night and Return of the Jedi next Wednesday :)

Steve

You're right the "bright" mode is nice. Then the PJ is really bright, still you get 2,000hrs and that takes some time. I'm at 350 a/o today. Oh and the fan's still quiet in bright mode.

I see that, once you put it in eco mode, the fans goes from quiet to almost silent.

Several folks say this PJ is quiet. I can only assume quiet is relative to other PJ's. Mine's not all that quiet. In the couple of days before I had the speakers going, I found it pretty loud really. For comparison sake I'd say about as loud as a decent PC powersupply's fan anyway. It's actaully louder than one of my PC's (fans), a little quieter than another with a cheap PS and an extra fan running. Wife (who normally wouldn't notice such) said "what's that sound?". It was the PJ, only thing on. I've only heard the sharp 12K and I don't remember it being any louder than my H77. Somethings wrong with mine or everyone else is used to really loud stuff. And I'm one-side mostly deaf, really. I hear a little sound difference going from bright to econ, but not much.

Scott

Maybe somethings wrong with yours. I couldn't hear Toms over the refrigerator - and it certainly was quieter than an IF7205 by far! It wasn't anywhere near as loud as the PC I'm using now. Is your room hot, or is the airflow restricted ??

Originally posted by Craig Peer
Is your room hot, or is the airflow restricted ??
Nope. In my unfinished basement. Maybe slightly warmer than the rest of the house, not much. I'd say 77degF max, probably 75. It's sitting on top of a flat, hard table, by itself, right side up (ceiling mount on the way). Has at least 4' of clearance left and right of it

I suppose if its right in front of you or right behind you(table mounted), it would be louder.

Mine is about 4ft away from my head and ceiling mounted. Only way I hear it is if I mute the receiver.

Steve

Make another judgment when you get it ceiling mounted. For me even if I climb up a ladder and listen close I can barely hear it.

You should also see a noticeable difference in econo vs bright.

Originally posted by guitarman
Make another judgment when you get it ceiling mounted. For me even if I climb up a ladder and listen close I can barely hear it.

The top of my 110" screen is about 7' so since the PJ can't go much higher than that, at 5'10 I'll be oh about 12" from it standing. Won't need a ladder to listen there. Mine is peffectly audible from 15' (rpobably farther) away if it's the only thing on. If you can barely hear yours while staning on a (presumably short) ladder then something is wrong with mine our your ears.

You should also see a noticeable difference in econo vs bright. It's not a show stopper, but it's not quiet, either. Mine is in econo mode. :(

Scott you're the first and only one to think the H77 is has volume. Specially if you hear it in Econo. You may have a problemed machine. See if you can get a listen from another one.

One other detail, on mine, presumably all the new ones, it's not called Econ mode like the website's manual depicts, but "Brite mode" [on|off]. Anyone else have "Brite mode" instead of Econ as a selection?

I have component cables from my AV receiver that feed from my HD STB and other stuff to come. I have a DVI cable directly from a Bravo D2. Whenever the PJ detects a signal change of any kind, it completely scans the entire matrix of supported formats on all inputs. So I turned on Source lock. Now when I press the DVI button on the remote, it still scans the entire range of possivbe input types on the DVI input. This takes some time and while it's scanning, any other PJ command is ignored until it syncs. Any way to configure it not to do this or further reduce what it scans?

It is bright on/off. Best setup is checking source lock. If say a DVI signal drops out it will re scan just the DVI signals. This is the time saving feature over no source lock and the PJ scanning all signal inputs.

Yep. I'm getting the feel of it's behavior. With source lock on, it's better. Not the best if you like to channel surf. Hit a non HD signal and it's a 15 sec wait for it to resync every time. Oh well, price of a big screen I suppose. I can live with it till the next PJ. Thanks for the answer.

I haven't timed it but it locks on pretty quick with Comcast Cable. I'm trying to get Direct TV to give me the right deal though. I wonder how there signals will time out.

Hey Craig, thx for the used Cosmopolitan, I like it! Mat White again but that's good I'm use to it and it works fine with the H77.
I set it to lock down for 16.9 aspect, that part was easy. A little heavy to boost up on the hooks, needed a helper. I'm now electrified pretty nice.
Thanks again.

Hey, Li On, thanks for the great day in Hong Kong. All was much appreciated.
The preview of the Mitsub.D2010 was certainly fantastic ex DVD and none of the problems I have seen with the 2000 model, even though supposedly the same.
Really think both Mitsubishi and Optoma rushed these units into PAL lands without proper checks, very bad, no excuse, a bit like the H76 episode. (Although the 2010 seems fine)
Now in Bangkok and have just seen several 1920 X 1080 clips from a HTPC / Action One combo. Again mind blowing!
Even though in the industry for several years, hard to believe these projectors have advanced so much.
The Mitsub. and Action are without doubt the finest example of projection I have seen to date.

Still touring the world? I though you went home on Friday!

Btw, next time when those fool pick on my great Panny AE200 again, you know they have no idea! :D

Too bad we didn't have enough time to show you proper HDTV clips on both the Mits and the Sony G70. Otherwise you shouldn't be too impressed by any other HDTV showing! :D

regards,

Li On

PS: Hong Kong is also a PAL land! And I did show some PAL clips on the Mits with flying color!

A man who can compare a Mits D2010 with a G70. Interesting- tell us more (with reference to the H77 so that it stays on thread!).

Sorry Li On it was late last night when I posted and still well over 30 deg C., so my clothes were all dripping wet from much walking around and excited at the Action HD preview I had just witnessed.
I did also see HD on the Mits. 2000 in Singapore and that was fine, but real problems as I have posted before with interlaced DVD.
Yes, I should have mentioned your great and unique Panny set-up which I wish I had have had my camera with me and taken shots. Although I guess you have it patented.

Sorry guys to go a bit "off-topic'

Re the mixed Mitsubishi and Optoma comments on this thread, I don't think it should be a problem as yet until the distinct differences between these extremely similar, and out of the same factory machines have been sorted out, particularly the PAL issues.

On the plus side all the NSTC models are just chugging away nicely. You guys in Pal country use progressive scan until Taiwan has the Pal Firmware sorted out. Don't worry it will be done. I'd bet within the next week or two or less.

Glad the Cosmo is working well for you Tom. No waves either, eh? Picked up my Building Permit today for our house remodel and addition which will lead to our dedicated home theater room - woohoo ( and hopefully an H77 in it too )!!!!!

It worked out great, can use it at 16.9 or 4.3, larger roller and heavier bottom weight bar helps eliminate the waves I get with the model B's.

Hi guys:

At 669 posts this thread is getting pretty long. I believe there's a ton of great info and dialog in it. But it started when only a few folks had the H77 and we were all asking about the details, comparisons, etc.

Now that many of us bought one, at least for me partially due to the input on this thread, the thread is getting more chatty and less on topic.

I started a new thread for those of us who are now H77 owwners. A thread menat to share tips and experiences on getting the most out of their H77 (or Mit.).

H77 Owners Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4419265#post4419265)

If you are an H77 owner and have a fix/tip/info the rest of would be interested in, please post.

Tom:

Since you have the back door Optoma connection, how about pleading with your man at Optoma and see if he'll provide some info on the service menu items, and their proper use/purpose? Save the technically curious from doing anything wrong, and give the technically proficient further control when tweaking. Thanks!

A list of current firmware's and release notes would be an excellent thing to post there, too.

Cheers,
Scott

Problem so far is there's only about 50 of us in the US that have the H77 and many of them don't post at AVS. I'll find out more about how the shipments are going. I know AVS got 5 H77's last week and that's a good amount for one outfit.
Be back.

So who bought the 5 available H77's AVS had a few days ago? Boy they went fast.

I don't want the new owners to be worrying, there's no problems on the NTSC models.
Enjoy and why not chime on and let us know what kind of picture quality you're getting.
Welcome aboard!

Originally posted by guitarman
So who bought the 5 available H77's AVS had a few days ago? Boy they went fast.

I don't want the new owners to be worrying, there's no problems on the NTSC models.
Enjoy and why not chime on and let us know what kind of picture quality you're getting.
Welcome aboard!

There should be more people announcing their ownership soon... I finally caught up on my back orders after hounding distributors around the country relentlessly and chasing down units....

I've now got more in stock and some people have even gotten multiple units shipped to them in all the confusion ;) talk about trying to do my best to quash ideas of an H77 double stack :)

Originally posted by hometheaterdoc
[snip..talk about trying to do my best to quash ideas of an H77 double stack :) [/B] If I had only had a DVI splitter to try it, you might have sold 2! Lucky for me I didn't have one.;)

Sounds good, this is not the H76 story. :)

Funny how early rumors take hold. Like brightness, I think this was Evan at Projector Central starting this error. There's no way the H77 is dim, lol
This is the bright one of the 7/8 segment HD2+ models. How things get twisted.

edit:
Whoops I should hv said the bright one for the 7/8 segment HD2+ models with the higher contrast. ;)

I'm sure it's in this long thread somewhere, but I'll ask anyway. How does this H77 compare to the BenQ PE8700? Any head to head comparisons? Any body see both or own both or do a mini shoot out? Thanks in advance.

H77 will have a much brighter picture, blacks will be deeper with less dither due to the 8 segment wheel. Optoma has a very nice color palate also. The money difference gets you those items plus power zoom/focus, quieter, shift, finer features but at a cost.

The BenQ should be ok but with the coming of the low priced Sharp there could be trouble.

Originally posted by guitarman
H77 will have a much brighter picture, blacks will be deeper with less dither due to the 8 segment wheel. Optoma has a very nice color palate also. The money difference gets you those items plus power zoom/focus, quieter, shift, finer features but at a cost.

The BenQ should be ok but with the coming of the low priced Sharp there could be trouble.

More questions - does the H77 have chroma matrixing circuitry that allows service adjustment (with proper instrumentation) of the primary color coordinates? If yes, are there input memories to preset the primaries for SDTV and HDTV signals?

Alter the primarys, I don't think so. I'l ask the engineer next time. There's plenty of ways the do color temp with each signal having it's own memory of RGB Contrast/Brightness advanced adjustments.

Originally posted by guitarman
Alter the primarys, I don't think so. I'l ask the engineer next time. There's plenty of ways the do color temp with each signal having it's own memory of RGB Contrast/Brightness advanced adjustments.

For perfect color rendition, it would be nice to have the ability to adjust and store chromaticity coordinates as well. There are some projectors on the street that have this function although I'm not sure which ones.

You can't bend the primary's on the H77. There is a machine out there where you can, I forget which one and it's maybe the only one.

Someone that just got an H77 and first fired it up and got a pink picture. Just so you know when I first fired up my H77 the colors were off and Pink. It was the Colorspace setting that fixed this, I re-set it to (Auto)

The factory had it on YUU.

I'll edit this info into the first post.

Hey, I watched a couple of NFL games today on the H77 in HD and Monday Night Football coming up.

I don't' care the image is so killer I don't think the Marantz, Sharp, 7205 hold a candle to this quality of an image. You have to see it to understand. I've seen the Marantz and Sharp, didn't bother to look at the 7205 after viewing the 7200.
Just ask any H77 owner? killer pure killer.

edit: ok forgive me I got carried away, all better now. :)

"It's still a mother beautiful projector!"

Hai,

Well it might be a killer but they have to ship the damn things, 3 more weeks passed and it seems
all shipments to europe have stopped. Any news on the 'they are working on pal issues' ?. At this rate
my H77 will be with me in time for all the xmas movies and my new iscanhd+ will beat it in delilvery.

Greetings,

Daniel.

I was told at the weekend that the next batch has been delayed for 3 weeks, not for technical reasons though apparently (yeah right!). I'm disappointed but if it means when I get it there's no problems I can live with that

Cheers
Andy

Originally posted by zAndy12
I was told at the weekend that the next batch has been delayed for 3 weeks, not for technical reasons though apparently (yeah right!). I'm disappointed but if it means when I get it there's no problems I can live with that

Cheers
Andy

I am not suprised, what is getting a problem for me is that they are not open about it. I will contact my dealer again tuesday and push for some anwers. Since all machine seem to pass through the UK changes are i have to wait even longer than these new 3 weeks of delay sofar we have seen a gap of about 6 to 8 weeks of delays without a real anwser and this is becomming unproffesional. I agree if they are working on a fix and if they say we have delayed it for 4 weeks for that reason im sure all the pal people who have a H77 on order would be fine with it.

edit: ive mailed them about what my problem is (no information) since i feel its only fair to share my growing concerns in delays without clear reasons.

Greetings,

Daniel.

There are clear reasons, the PAL signal is being sorted out. For both the H77 and the Mits I'd bet. All the Engineers are in Taiwan since last week and for another week. Probably heavy testing going on so there's absolutely no problems for the European buyers.

Next week I'll talk to my contact at the US factory and see what they did these last two weeks.

Hang in there.

I agree that more information regarding the delay would be welcome and I wouldn't mind at all if they admitted there was a problem and it was being sorted out. The thing is my dealer specifically said that it wasn't delayed for any technical reasons, I find it hard to believe that to be honest, why else would it be delayed like this? Anyway.. we'll see what happens in 3 weeks I guess

Cheers
Andy

The dealer doesn't follow this forum then. The first few that got out in Europe needed a firmware for PAL. Same for the Mits. A couple of users in the UK are ok with progressive and DVI it's interlaced that needed the work. Their Optoma Rep in the UK was in Taiwan last week with the other guys working on it.

Originally posted by guitarman
The dealer doesn't follow this forum then. The first few that got out in Europe needed a firmware for PAL. Same for the Mits. A couple of users in the UK are ok with progressive and DVI it's interlaced that needed the work. Their Optoma Rep in the UK was in Taiwan last week with the other guys working on it.

For reasons im unclear about i got a mail back but am asked to keep it confidential. I don't see anything that special on it but ill respect it. The basic reply is confusing if i compare it to your info.

There is no pal version sofar, a special version will be made the delayed release will be 2 to 3 months after the ntsc release (volumes shipping to start end of october).

But they did change things in firmware compared to 'review' versions shipped in europe ?. The real release will be even better ..

I will ask some more, my only goal is that they will say we will ship units date X and we did test and change things for pal.

Daniel.

I'm following this thread with great interest. I watch most movies with subtitles (I live in Spain) and I've heard that with most DLPs this means seeing rainbows. Have any owner watched movies with subs and experienced such problems?...

Thank you

Ruben

Well, I have been informed that the 'fix' is a hardware one not a firmware one (no more info than that though). I guess all those waiting should just be glad Optoma are going to fix it before releasing any more units on the general public. Mine is due to be fixed in the next week or so.

This 'PAL problem' I keep hearing about, does it affect signals upconverted to 720p? Or is it only an issue if you feed the projector native PAL rez (i.e. 576p)?

Pretty sure it was just an interlaced signal. They're working like little bee's over there in Taiwan right now, the end is near. :)

They're working like little bee's over there

I think the main thing this company (Optoma, and it seems Mits. also this time) need to get "Busy Bee" about, is improving their P.R.
After the mess with the H76, this is just a continuing story.
Or was there a movie at one stage called "The Never Ending Story"

Hi Fishhooks, I got my HT1100 last Friday, and ceiling mounted on Saturday! The image and colors are even better than I remember from my side-by-side compare back in March. Very pleased with my purchase, and quite glad I didn't wait to spend twice as much on a H77!
HD via component looks pretty damn good, certainly not as good as my XG CRT, but nice and sharp, very much watchable if I don't want to fire up the CRT, and of course a lot sharper than DVD source. Nice "almost CRT" blacks, and also plenty of brightness even on ~96" 4:3 screen, eco mode wth Iris closed! I can see why many owners say they will never part with their NEC's. Typing this now on my DVI connected HTPC desktop!

PS: Sorry for the OT, but it does keep the thread moving along (and I did mention H77). ;)

Greg

Originally posted by guitarman
The dealer doesn't follow this forum then. The first few that got out in Europe needed a firmware for PAL. Same for the Mits. A couple of users in the UK are ok with progressive and DVI it's interlaced that needed the work. Their Optoma Rep in the UK was in Taiwan last week with the other guys working on it.
I believe the dealer in question is the same one as my order is with .. if so, it was he who supplied Messiah's. :)

Originally posted by KraGorn
I believe the dealer in question is the same one as my order is with .. if so, it was he who supplied Messiah's. :)

Quite likley, but mine is not being sorted by the dealer. I am now dealing directly with the Optoma UK Product manager and have absolutely no concerns about if or when it will be fixed. He is very keen to get this matter resolved :)

NEC had problems with PAL tearing when they first released the HT1000. Not fair the flat out blame Optoma, it's dealers pressing to get quicker deliveries that makes them send some out. I'd bet the dealers new ahead of time the interlaced PAL signal wasn't ready yet. Guess they figure make the sale and upgrade it later.

The H76 was a whole different story which is obvious by now why. Something like a fighter taking a dive for the promoters.

The problems with the Mits HC2000 are not just on interlaced signals but on progressive as well.

I discussed the differences of the Optoma and Mit. units with Mit. at CEDIA. Mit. reps said theirs had

a) more discrete IR codes - I'm thinking they had specific format codes where we an only get the OSD menu of formats (16:9, letterbox, etc.). I'm hoping the H77 has them in there, just not on the remote - how 'bout it Tom, can you find this out for us? I wish they would monitor the forum.

b) Mit. has a selectable wheel speed 4x/5x.

c) Mit. says they have their own propriitary scaler. That might explain why they are having PAL problems on i and p feeds. Who knows, they dont' monitor either.

While I'm asking, can you find out the list of available RS232 commands for theH77 in addition to any IR codes that aren't implemented on the actual remote?

Cheers,
Scott

I found the manual to the HC2000 and confirmed it does have discrete codes (and buttons) for some of it's display formats. It also has 6 modes compared to H77's 4.

Click here for the HC2000 manual, Go to Page 18 (http://http://www.mitsubishi-evs.de/download/bedinungsanleitung/20048140_hc2000_bedanl_en.pdf)

I read that the Mitsu had a few more setup options (adjustable black level control, auto iris, blanking/shutter control (?)). The optics are supposed to be better (Nikon). Differences aside, I hope this gets sorted out soon since I'm ready for an upgrade and these 2 are at the top of my list :( .

Scott, Tom -

I would also like to find out if there are discrete IR codes to change screen format/aspect-ratio.

It would also be very nice to know what commands are available via the RS-232 interface.

I sent in a request to Optoma Support for this yesterday, but have not heard anything back. Tom, can your inside source get this kind of info?

thanks!

paul

Originally posted by scotthorton
I discussed the differences of the Optoma and Mit. units with Mit. at CEDIA. Mit. reps said theirs had

a) more discrete IR codes - I'm thinking they had specific format codes where we an only get the OSD menu of formats (16:9, letterbox, etc.). I'm hoping the H77 has them in there, just not on the remote - how 'bout it Tom, can you find this out for us? I wish they would monitor the forum.

b) Mit. has a selectable wheel speed 4x/5x.

c) Mit. says they have their own propriitary scaler. That might explain why they are having PAL problems on i and p feeds. Who knows, they dont' monitor either.

While I'm asking, can you find out the list of available RS232 commands for theH77 in addition to any IR codes that aren't implemented on the actual remote?

Cheers,
Scott

THe USA Engineer will be in Taiwan for another week, so next week I can find out. I also have an Optoma H30 and it has discrete codes for each aspect. Just for giggles I'll see what happens when I use it's remote with the H77.

Originally posted by paul99
Scott, Tom -

I would also like to find out if there are discrete IR codes to change screen format/aspect-ratio.

It would also be very nice to know what commands are available via the RS-232 interface.

I sent in a request to Optoma Support for this yesterday, but have not heard anything back. Tom, can your inside source get this kind of info?

thanks!

paul

Paul, don't expect to hear back becuase Wing is in Taiwan for another week. He's the designer Engineer here at Headquaters. I don't think the phone tech guys will be able to help you with this info.

For the other guys, I can't help that much on PAL problems because Wing doesn't work with PAL signals. He did tell me Justin I think in the UK is the Engineer in Europe working on the PAL. He's in Taiwan also this week.

Originally posted by guitarman
He did tell me Justin I think in the UK is the Engineer in Europe working on the PAL. He's in Taiwan also this week.

No he's not :) He's back in Watford. I spoke with him yesterday and am due to speak with him again on Friday.

Originally posted by rubento
I'm following this thread with great interest. I watch most movies with subtitles (I live in Spain) and I've heard that with most DLPs this means seeing rainbows. Have any owner watched movies with subs and experienced such problems?...

Thank you

Ruben

You won't have a problem with rainbows on five times speed color wheel. I haven't seen any on the H77.

That's good news for Pal users. Makes sense a hardware change is always slower as a fix. Looks like now in the next few weeks specific upgraded H77's will hit Europe.

Lets us know when you get a couple and how they work.

Yeah looking forward to hearing what exactly the hardware problem was and also how the upgraded one performs, oh and getting my hands on one finally will be nice too!

Cheers
Andy

I realize that this is off topic, but many of you have tested many pjs (sharp, marantz, IF, nec) and no one has mentioned the Dwin TV3+. I'm interested in the dwin because it has a 2 box solution: scaler sits with your other equip and only one dvi cable goes back to the pj. also, it has 2 dvi inputs. anyone?
thanks
michael

Will the fixes/upgrades to the H77 flow onto the problematic Mits HC2000? I'm beginning to think this a European specific problem. The European H77s seem to have problems and I read on some other thread that all European HC2000s also have a problem. Meanwhile North American H77s and the Asian HC2000s both seem to be fine. Why are the engineers in Taiwan doing upgrades when they can just ship the North American units over to Europe?

Originally posted by Messiah
No he's not :) He's back in Watford. I spoke with him yesterday and am due to speak with him again on Friday.

We hereby assign you the offical role of avs-engineer contact person :). It seems they are working hard on the problem and a direct contact between a user and a designer is a very good sign indeed. Ive talked some more with the sales people and still feel they didn't have their stories synced to say the least but it doesn't make sense for us all to start shouting at them *grin*.

What would be great is when the problem is fixed to know that you or some other user has tested the problem and that we know how we got a fixed version once shipping resumes.

Please keep us informed and thank you for the work you are putting into this (same goes for the others on this thread like guitarman, but he is the one who got most of us in trouble in the first place :) ).

Greetings,

Daniel.

My H77 has gone back to Optoma UK but not (I don't think) for the other problems mentioned in this thread. My problem is that I simply cannot get HDMI or DVi to sync-lock, even with a 2m cable. Source is a Denon 3910.

Optoma UK are going to swap out the video input boards for me. They have definitely made some kind of change to production, hardware not firmware, but they won't fess up what it is.

Other than my specific issue with HDMI/DVi I don't appear to have any other problems, PAL or otherwise, or perhaps I do but I just don't notice!

Overall I'm pretty happy with this projector, menus aside.

Paul

One of my friend just bought new house and he wanted some recommendation. So based on this forum, I recommended H77.

Now, digging all the AVS sponsers as well as the dealer listed by optoma webpage, I couldn't find any who carries H77.

Can anyone recommend dealer who carries H77 in Nothern VA. Or some good reliable online shop?

Thanks in advance.

AVS?

Hello,

Here, my first H77's screenshot : http://perso.wanadoo.fr/nicolas.phil/fr/s2_screen_H77.html

Nice job, same kind of quality I'm getting with my H77. Very sharp crisp picture that can be bright with still retaining dark blacks.

It so sharp I'm still debating on Sharpness setting 2 vs 3.

Again nice pictures especially the last few. :)

;)

I'm using HTPC with DVI interface and partial color fac setting.

However the H77 has a "color bug" we can watch on some screenshot. It is for me the only bad point for this projector. :confused:

Illustration :

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/nicolas.phil/screenH77/bugH77.jpg

I am waiting for a good firmware to solve this problem.

What I see is a shadow type smear in the center just left of the face shot. Face looks ok though.

Colorfacts, I had to use my eye and a gray steps pattern. Used this for DVI/bravo player and Progressive/faroudja Panasonic XP30. DVI is on right now my numbers are,

Mode Cinema
Contrat 24
Brightness -7
SHarpness 3
Gamma 2

Image
White peak 0
Color temp 2
image mode Film

Advanced adjustment
R-contrast 0
G-contrast 4
B-contrast 4

R-brightness -1
G-brightness -2
B-brightness -6

With colorfacts what did you get for the Advanced adjustments on the DVI signal? Curious

Careful, my colorfac settings is not complete. I have a small "peak" in the red but not very critical.

Mode Cinema
Contrat -1
Brightness 2
SHarpness 1
Gamma 2

Image
White peak 0
Color temp 2
image mode Film

Advanced adjustment
R-contrast 7
G-contrast -12
B-contrast -15

R-brightness 4
G-brightness 5
B-brightness 4

Yr numbers work well on my machine. I still hv U571 going and the opening sub scenes which you know have excellent color qualities to face tones. Things are looking pretty good.
I'll take a look at an Avia Grayscale pattern.

So you have U571 :) Can you tell me if you have this kind of image with your H77?

--> http://img85.exs.cx/img85/3087/Photo270.jpg
--> http://img85.exs.cx/img85/5016/Photo277.jpg

Those screenshot were made with a H77 and PAL firmware.
Thanks

Do you mean the Saturn type rings around the light?

Took a quick look at the Star Wars Optomizer's Gray Steps and right red was high in the high IRE steps, I had to bring back R-contrast 10 clicks to minus 3. More to do, I'll work on it. Will look for the U571 scenes.

Originally posted by guitarman
Do you mean the Saturn type rings around the light?


Yes.

Originally posted by guitarman
Took a quick look at the Star Wars Optomizer's Gray Steps and right red was high in the high IRE steps, I had to bring back R-contrast 10 clicks to minus 3.

I will try

I played both clips and there's no pronounced rings like I see on your shots. I took a couple of shots of these my self and will post in an hour or so.

Great, thanks. I'am in standby for your shots :)

Just like to say thanks for all the input from owners of the H77 (and HC2000). Been in a holding pattern waiting for this to get sorted out before I take the plunge. Nice to hear feedback from real users. Hope to join you fella's soon with some feedback of my own :D . Can't wait to see this thing on a Silverstar.

Keep the screenshots coming. Tom, looking at your original photos from the beginning of this post is what got me into this mess :p !! I was on the fence and your photos knocked me right off! Now my PJ is sold and all I have are screenshots to drool over. Thanks alot :D Even though European units seem to have some sort of issue at the moment. I still think this is the best DLP value right now.

OT: Anyone using a ceiling mount with the H77? options? Does H77 and HC2000 use the same mount?

Regards,
Anthony

Tom, this is not meant as an insult or challenge in any way. You mentioned that there are no rainbows with the H77.

I am very sensitive to rainbows and I do see them at times with the H77. That said, they are fairly low intensity and I have gotten to the point where they generally don't bother or distract me. One of the more obvious examples came while watching the beginning of "The Return of the Jedi." In the scene where Vader exits his shuttle and walks onto the deck of the new death star, there is strong lighting on his glossy black helmet. Most of the helmet is deep black, but there are small areas that reflect the light very brightly. I got some serious rainbows off this high contrast white on black.

I still love my H77 and have no buyer's remorse at all. The picture is great and it works well overall. Again, the rainbows on the H77 are much more mild than those I saw with some of the Samsung RP HD2 sets. Those were impossible for me to watch.

Ira

Originally posted by DTSman-fr
Great, thanks. I'am in standby for your shots :)

Here's that shot of U571, a little grainy do to the camera and daylight in the room. Sri for being so slow, I dropped my D-camera today and had it in pieces trying to fix. No go but at least I got the last captures. Not the screen shots fault I busted my camera. I was out on the porch shooting a vintage Gibson Humbucker pickup for Ebay and dropped the thing on it's lens. Time to buy another camera. :)

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77u571.jpg


Re Rainbows, don't let them think the H77 is a rainbow machine. The 5Xspeed wheel helps here on the rainbows + the 8 colored color wheel. Rainbow machines are the 2Xspeed with white segment presentation projectors.

Originally posted by Cilent1
Just like to say thanks for all the input from owners of the H77 (and HC2000). Been in a holding pattern waiting for this to get sorted out before I take the plunge. Nice to hear feedback from real users. Hope to join you fella's soon with some feedback of my own :D . Can't wait to see this thing on a Silverstar.

Keep the screenshots coming. Tom, looking at your original photos from the beginning of this post is what got me into this mess :p !! I was on the fence and your photos knocked me right off! Now my PJ is sold and all I have are screenshots to drool over. Thanks alot :D Even though European units seem to have some sort of issue at the moment. I still think this is the best DLP value right now.

OT: Anyone using a ceiling mount with the H77? options? Does H77 and HC2000 use the same mount?

Regards,
Anthony

Why wait, there's not a thing wrong with the USA machines. I use a chief mount you can use the same RPA chief that used on the H76. Optoma has there own mount also which looks good.

Originally posted by DTSman-fr
Careful, my colorfac settings is not complete. I have a small "peak" in the red but very critical.

Mode Cinema
Contrat -1
Brightness 2
SHarpness 1
Gamma 2

Image
White peak 0
Color temp 2
image mode Film

Advanced adjustment
R-contrast 7
G-contrast -12
B-contrast -15

R-brightness 4
G-brightness 5
B-brightness 4

Trying to dissect these CF numbers. I see you pushed up the RGB-brightness. When you first looked at the 6500k graph your lower end RGB's were somewhat below the 6500k line between 20IRE & 40IRE/?

Reason I ask is I also have an Optoma H30 and it's stock color temp came in with Blue being 20% high across the board. I was thinking the H77 might be similar

Did you save a record graph of the stock color temp levels? If so and you could post it that could be helpful to me.

Hope Cine4home doesn't mind. Here's the stock RGB/6500k for my other Optoma -
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h30stockct.jpg

are there any other owners of H77 in the US other than guitarman? Will be nice to hear some second, third, forth opinons on the US sets :)

I have one. You can see my posts about it. I like it overall but I'd say I'm apparantly harder to please than Tom. Weigh in though that it's my first PJ. My colors aren't right yet and I'm weighing options on getting it tweaked. I use it on a 110" firehawk. The other PJ's I considered were the Marantz S3, sharp 12K, and IF 7205. I never got to see a 7205, would still like to. I suspect the Marantz has as good a pic as this one but it's under controlled distribution so it's price isn't gonna be even close to what this one can be had for. I have a very good place to get it if you are interested PM me.

Cheeers,
Scott

Scott what did you think of the Sharp 12k compared to the H77?

I only saw it in the store. They had it on a 92" screen and I had them cycle through it's iris modes. Seemed similar to the H77 in brightness, maybe a little dimmer in it's low iris mode. It was louder but not much as I recall. Not a very scientific opinion. I think the H77's picture is better. Price was not an object when I was looking and I chose the H77 so I suppose that states my opinion more concisely.

Cheers,
Scott

Scott, so other than color issues is everything ok as far as motion artifacts and picture smoothness? How is the on board video processor?

Originally posted by guitarman
Trying to dissect these CF numbers. I see you pushed up the RGB-brightness. When you first looked at the 6500k graph your lower end RGB's were somewhat below the 6500k line between 20IRE & 40IRE/?

Reason I ask is I also have an Optoma H30 and it's stock color temp came in with Blue being 20% high across the board. I was thinking the H77 might be similar

Did you save a record graph of the stock color temp levels? If so and you could post it that could be helpful to me.

Hope Cine4home doesn't mind. Here's the stock RGB/6500k for my other Optoma -
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h30stockct.jpg

Thanks you for your U571's shot. The "halo" problem does not exist on your H77, it is very strange. Does that mean it is only a question of firmware? PAL for me and NTSC for you...

I haven't my colorfac graph graph on my computer, but it is only a question of time. I will post it.

All I can say is H30 or H77 have a bad "original setting". Use colorfac to improve these adjustments seems absolutely necessary to me.

Originally posted by DTSman-fr
Thanks you for your U571's shot. The "halo" problem does not exist on your H77, it is very strange. Does that mean it is only a question of firmware? PAL for me and NTSC for you...

I haven't my colorfac graph graph on my computer, but it is only a question of time. I will post it.

All I can say is H30 or H77 have a bad "original setting". Use colorfac to improve these adjustments seems absolutely necessary to me.


Not to worry you but themescene/optoma sort of admitted that there are no 'done' PAL versions yet. They consider all units now shipped in europe 'pre-versions' shipments will start of end of october. Several of us seem to feel they will not only update firmware but also hardware.

Thanks for the info you are providing,

Daniel.

Originally posted by danielo
Not to worry you but themescene/optoma sort of admitted that there are now 'done' PAL versions yet. They consider all units now shipped in europe 'pre-versions' shipments will start of end of october. Several of us seem to feel they will not only update firmware but also hardware.
Daniel.

:eek:

Thanks for those news.

So are some mugs going to be lumbered with the 'pre-versions'? Any method for identifying which is which, I wonder.

Originally posted by tubby
Scott, so other than color issues is everything ok as far as motion artifacts and picture smoothness? How is the on board video processor? Tubby: It looks OK to me, but honestly I don't think I'm qualified to say. I wouldn't want to give a laymens opinion that might affect anyones decision. As far as hardware, my only gripe is it takes as much as 45 seconds to resysc after having a source change (i.e. from a 1080i to a 480i/p or dvi signal. I am running 30' DVI and component cables.
Scott

Originally posted by John Alison
So are some mugs going to be lumbered with the 'pre-versions'? Any method for identifying which is which, I wonder.


Well this is what is kinda getting me upset at the moment, they say different things to different people. It seems true that they are still working on the 'final' pal release befor mass production. They
expect the first mass production units end of october. But that leaves us with the following questions :

1) what do they call the units allready shipped ?, they talk about demo units does that mean they have been sold by dealers as final versions or did optoma change their mind.

2) is the final release only a 'better' or 'fixed' firmware as they told me or is it also a hardware change that several people in this thread have reported.

3) is there now a final version that went into production ? (since getting it into production and to dealers takes about 4 to 6 weeks)

4) how can we check if our units are of the new version and/or hardware.

5) what will happen to the units now allready shipped.

The good news is that they are working on it as fast as they can, the bad news is that they are confusing alot of people with conflcting stories all the time. In the end i just want to know when i will get my new and final and perfect H77 in my HT.

Daniel.

I don't thing there were a huge amount of H77's released in Europe. If I had to guess is was tops 20 of them. Probably released from dealer pressure with the already release in the US. Same with the Mits, it's good the problem was discovered early. They must hv thought they had the Pal signal covered.

No new units will be sent out until the Pal firmware/hardware is installed, that's for sure.

tubby, I ran allot of tests on the H77's deinterlacer and it's more than excellent.

So your interlace feeds will look smooth and artifact free. The deinterlacer matches up well with the best Faroudja chip. Very hard passages look super smooth. Even the fly by opening Spaceship shot on the Galaxy Quest DVD is panned smooth with no jerky movement. I've only seen the Faroudja chipped players handle this scene this way.

Another good test is the end of chap 12 on Gladiator, the panning shot over the city to the Colosseum. Once again very good job and right up here with the Faroudja.

Well I finally got to see the H77 in action, it was at a dealer and well calibrated. Although it was on a firehawk the picture was awesome to these untrained eyes. I'm pretty much there. I just need to see the new sharp, if its anywhere near as good as the H77 I might have to try it.

Here's a recent review of the H77.

http://www.laaudiofile.com/h77.html

Originally posted by scotthorton
.....my only gripe is it takes as much as 45 seconds to resysc after having a source change (i.e. from a 1080i to a 480i/p or dvi signal. Scott

Tom, does yours do this as well? That doesn't sound very good to me. Possibly there's a work around to the problem?

Thanks,
Brent

No, I timed it last night, 5 to 10 seconds.

I've got one of the few PAL units out so far, and it does have the same banding problems as detailed by others here and on the Mits HC2000 site.

They do seem to be prominent when using the interlaced input...other inputs less so.

I'm due to get a Denon 3910 in the next week so I should be able to post the difference in the picture quality between interlaced, progressive 480p, 720p,1080i and dvi/hdmi.

Optoma have not been 100% clear about what is going to happen to the units already shipped (though I have to say the picture on mine is so good I'd be loath to let it out of my clutches until I know they can offer a near immediate 'swapout'!). They have hinted that the problem is one of hardware and software, so ruling out the idea of a simple firmware upgrade. I must say that from the contact we've had from them so far I am encouraged that the problem will be resolved and we will have our H77s sorted out.

If you succeed in finding one I'd advise you to buy it.

Regards,

Ian Guinan

Originally posted by isfman
Here's a recent review of the H77.

http://www.laaudiofile.com/h77.html

Very good review, interesting outfit, I looked over their 7205 review and it's typical they found a way to leave out the generated contrast ratio's and black level. Guess if you can find something good to say, say nothing. :)

Whoops on the they, sri

I see laaudiofile and you're a Los Angeles poster. Are you hooked up with the company? You're Kevin right?
If so welcome

Ian, at least you can and are enjoying it right now. The fix will be painless I'm sure.